Military Review

Three ways of Ukraine and one Putin

201
Three ways of Ukraine and one Putin



Any modern reality is based on a powerful historical foundation. And if you look at modern Ukraine in this context, you cannot fail to see that it represents a cast of at least three historical layers.

The first historical layer - the legacy of Bohdan Khmelnytsky. Central Ukraine fully reproduces the boundaries of the hetman state since the Pereiaslav Rada. In its behavior, this part of Ukraine resembles the behavior of someone who stands on Sophia Square in Kiev. Let me remind you that the hetman raised Cossacks for an uprising in the 1648 year in order to defend the freedoms granted by the former kings of the Commonwealth.

At the beginning, no one even stuttered about autonomy. But when it went too far, and the sea of ​​spilled blood finally divided the two opposing camps (Poles and Cossacks), Khmelnitsky urgently had to change the political vector.

And then the question arose of choosing a new patron in the person of the Moscow Tsar, which automatically implied the entry of Moscow into the war with the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. At the end of his short life, Khmelnitsky made another leash by concluding an alliance with the Swedish king Charles X. His successor and son, Yury Khmelnitsky, went even further, without hesitation, changed the oath of allegiance to the Tsar of Moscow for an alliance with Poland against Russia.

“In terms of foreign policy, it’s more profitable for the Kremlin to develop relations with key players in the EU, above all with Germany”

For several decades, the Hetmanate rushed, alternately joining the union and betraying the Polish and Swedish kings, the Moscow Tsar, the Turkish Sultan. In the end, this is so annoying to everyone, all the neighbors are so tired of fighting each other because of such an unreliable "ally" that Warsaw and Moscow decided to simply agree, dividing Ukraine in half. Today, the ever-changing electoral sympathies of Central Ukraine are very reminiscent of these throwings by the hetman state Bohdan Khmelnytsky.

The second layer - the legacy of Catherine II. This is South-Eastern Ukraine, which was formed at the expense of Novorossiysk Territory reclaimed from Turkey in the 18th century and Slobozhanshchina reorganized by the great Empress. Catherine the Great not only won this land and secured it against raids, she also laid the foundations of its economic significance. It was with her that metallurgy appeared in the Donbass, for the needs of which coal mining began. It was she who made the Ukrainian Black Sea ports not only centers of shipbuilding, but also centers of active trade. Ukrainian bread went through them, stimulating the rise of domestic agriculture. It is thanks to her that Slobozhanshchina, together with Kharkov, has turned from a military-administrative region into an economically prosperous region. Thanks to this push, the industry in Ukraine demonstrated the tremendous pace that Vladimir Putin spoke about during a conference in Kiev. It is clear that, economically and mentally connected with Russia, this region will always strive to the East.

The third layer is the legacy of the Habsburg empire, i.e., Western Ukraine. In 1707, passing through the main city of the region - Lviv, the carriage of Peter I got stuck in the mud on its central square. And in the future, Western Ukraine has always remained a deaf province, devoid of any significance. Labor migration has always been directed more to the West, and this has formed specific “pro-European” sentiments here. The Soviet era buried the weak Russophile movement that existed in Galicia. And now, alas, one does not have to hope for support to the supporters of integration with Russia. Probably, one should not try to convince the inhabitants of this land to abandon their pro-European illusions. The very course of history will put everything in its place.

It is clear that today, under any circumstances, Western Ukraine will not want to integrate with Russia, but you will not force South-Eastern Ukraine to join the EU, since this implies the closure of the border in the East. At the same time, Yanukovych demonstrates a complete unwillingness to resolve these contradictions. What should Putin do? To persuade Yanukovych once again, knowing that it will not do anything until a strong support for integration with Russia is formed in the country? Trying to force your will on the Ukrainian elite?

In the 17th century, Moscow tried to push the hetman power towards closer integration in the conditions of war. This did not end well for Russia itself. Should Putin repeat the mistakes of Tsar Alexei Mikhailovich? Close your eyes and turn away? But we are talking about millions of compatriots who, as a result of the collapse of a single country, were separated by a border! We are talking about the territories for which rivers of Russian blood have been shed!

In my opinion, Putin’s position in these conditions is more thoughtful. She is pragmatic in economic terms. Moscow cannot fail to see that Ukraine is increasingly turning into a country dependent on imports. Today, even potatoes, sugar and lard are brought to Kiev from abroad. Unlike Ukraine, the Russian economy is developing new areas, and the meaning of imports of Ukrainian goods is increasingly declining. Hence the protective customs measures against Kiev. The same situation with the Ukrainian migrants, who in the bulk are unskilled labor.

But in the information plan, apparently, Russia plans to increase its presence. This will allow, at least, to deprive the apologists of the European integration of a monopoly in the Ukrainian information market. After all, it is no secret that in the country there are whole hordes of people raised on Western grants and, accordingly, biased journalists, political scientists and other experts.

In terms of foreign policy, it is more profitable for the Kremlin to develop relations with key players in the EU, primarily with Germany. In the end, it will depend primarily on the position of Berlin whether to sign the Association Agreement with Ukraine. And if the Germans see that there are more benefits from cooperation with Moscow, they will find a thousand excuses why the above document is not ready for signing.

Especially since in September 2013, the parliamentary elections will be held in Germany, and it’s not a fact that Angela Merkel will be able to form a new governmental coalition based on their results. And the Social Democrats since the times of Schroeder have been more loyal to Russia.

In the light of these events, you involuntarily ask yourself whether the EU and Russia will act with Kiev in the same way as the Moscow tsar and the king of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth - with the corrupt Hetman's power in 1667 year?
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  1. xetai9977
    xetai9977 1 August 2013 08: 38
    20
    It seems that the month of Ukraine is being announced on the site.
    1. Concept1
      Concept1 1 August 2013 08: 52
      83
      Just for Russia and the Russian people it is very important! MoloRussia, BeloRussia and Russia are one people! ..
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. gladiatorakz
          gladiatorakz 1 August 2013 18: 16
          -2
          Quote: kris
          It’s good to be a political scientist, 3.14 you’re not responsible for anything.
          And the money is dripping!

          Who pays the money and dances an independent political scientist.
          1. starshina78
            starshina78 1 August 2013 22: 27
            23
            Unfortunately, I don’t remember, but on some site I read an article by a Ukrainian politician (I don’t remember my last name either, because it was about a year ago) about the future of Ukraine. He predicts the collapse of Ukraine in case of signing an agreement with the EU. Not immediately, but after some time. This will be due to the fact that at the request of the EU, mines will be closed (due to environmental damage from the use of coal), metallurgical plants will decline (due to the fact that the EU will not buy products, and in Russia large duties will be introduced, and the products will not become competitive), and there are many more factors that will lead to the impoverishment of the population, which will entail a riot, as a result of which a referendum will be held on separation from Ukraine and the formation of Eastern Ukraine and the Republic of Crimea. These republics then quietly join the structure of Russia as a federation. By the way, this was also written about in the foreign press.
            1. APASUS
              APASUS 2 August 2013 14: 42
              +9
              Quote: starshina78
              He predicts the collapse of Ukraine in case of signing an agreement with the EU. Not immediately, but after some time. This will be due to the fact that at the request of the EU, mines will be closed (due to environmental damage from the use of coal), metallurgical plants will decline (due to the fact that the EU will not buy products, and in Russia large duties will be introduced, and products will not be competitive), and many more factors

              Another EU will force to sign the act of systematization of food products! And in this act there are no such names (for example, condensed milk or pickles, also lard with garlic there is a lot of any national provisions).
              TIME NO - PRODUCTION WILL BE FORBIDDEN!
              Then you will be completely Europeans, remembering the borscht with donuts and garlic!
          2. wow
            wow 4 August 2013 19: 14
            +6
            The nezalezhniki were doing it again. Vilna Ukraine has arisen more than once, and more than once it has ended up with the same thing: total theft of everything from everyone, betrayal of everyone who is possible, and at the same time global nonsense at all possible levels. The result of such "vigor and independence" is always the same - the collapse of this quasi-power into small fragments and their selection by neighbors. So it will be this time. The end is as clear as God's day.
      2. Vovka levka
        Vovka levka 1 August 2013 14: 36
        12 th
        Quote: concept1
        Just for Russia and the Russian people it is very important! MoloRussia, BeloRussia and Russia are one people! ..

        MoloRussia? Then we can say Kievan Rus.
        The largest and most ardent nationalists in Ukraine are the Russians who live there. And it amazes me the most.
        The biggest problem is that in Russia and Ukraine the "right of the strong", not the law. And most people are already fed up with it, especially young people. They want to live freely.
        Ukraine is considered a poor country and this is not because people are loafers. And from the fact that its leaders are so invited, let's say dishonest so to say. And it makes people look for ways to live. And so a lot of people go abroad, to Russia, to Europe. And those who come from Europe, they come completely different, they already think differently. And this lawlessness which is created by them categorically does not like, and not only to them.
        The difference in the situation between Russia and Ukraine is the difference in the number of minerals sold over the hill. And from this the difference in the quality of life.
        But the struggle between technology and minerals, technology will win and this is an indisputable fact.
        1. S_mirnov
          S_mirnov 1 August 2013 16: 22
          -9
          “Moscow cannot but see that Ukraine is increasingly turning into a country dependent on imports. Today even potatoes, sugar and lard are brought to Kiev from abroad.” - oh, how funny!
          We are teaching Ukrainians life, and we have long since lost our food independence (in the sense that if we cut off food supplies from abroad in the Russian Federation, then we will begin hunger).
          In stores, finding domestic meat is a problem. Apples polish, Israeli carrot. If the potato is domestic, then it is necessarily sick, it does not lie for a long time.
          Many are in the clouds, here the man describes everything
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTJ9qt4yRok
          1. Apologet.Ru
            Apologet.Ru 1 August 2013 20: 52
            14
            hi
            Taking for the truth that history is developing in a spiral, it can be stated with some certainty that -
            after some time Ukraine will face the rejection of Crimea, and God forbid, without bloodshed and the restoration of the Crimean Khanate under the vassal dependence of Turkey, and its return under the protectorate of Russia, which is historically justified.
            And also the recognition of the independence of Galicia, this is in the event that Ukraine does not want to become the Nazi-Bandera Galicia in all its borders or, restoring historical justice, returning it to Poland ...
            1. Simon
              Simon 5 August 2013 15: 32
              +1
              While the Russian fleet is in Crimea, Turkey will not turn up.
          2. zmey_gadukin
            zmey_gadukin 2 August 2013 15: 34
            +5
            Quote: S_mirnov
            In stores, finding domestic meat is a problem.

            Come on))) Do not compose.
            Only on a vskidku: "Meat Spring" and "Clear Dawns". Just huge fattening and processing facilities.
            Beef is the problem.
            Quote: S_mirnov
            Apples polish, Israeli carrot.

            Duc, its full. It only looks worse for natural.
          3. Ulan
            Ulan 2 August 2013 19: 05
            +8
            You're wrong. Just take a closer look at the topic. For example, in poultry meat, Russia has already become self-sufficient, the same with pork meat.
            There are concepts of food security and food addiction.
            Russia has already ensured food security, .. there is food dependence on certain types of products.
            But this does not threaten hunger.
            Recently I was surprised to learn that Russia supplies pork to Ukraine. It used to be the other way around. In this regard, Ukraine even took discriminatory measures regarding the supply of these products from Russia.
          4. Nick
            Nick 3 August 2013 15: 11
            +5
            Quote: S_mirnov
            We are teaching Ukrainians life, and we have long since lost our food independence (in the sense that if we cut off food supplies from abroad in the Russian Federation, then we will begin hunger).

            If you block the supply of products from abroad, then agriculture will revive. We have millions of hectares of arable land overgrown with weeds and birch forests because it is impossible for peasants to sell their products at the price of foreigners, whose production dates back 90 times more than Russian agricultural producers. Just think about it! 1 ha of arable land in Russia receives 170 rubles of state subsidies, and in Europe 340 euros!
          5. Yoshkin Kot
            Yoshkin Kot 3 August 2013 16: 00
            +1
            Moscow is not all Russia
          6. ultra
            ultra 5 August 2013 14: 35
            +1
            You are wrong! Just in the sulfur of food production, the trends are pleasing! As a person living in the Black Earth region I see how rural work is changing (for the better), private investments, including foreign ones, are doing their job!
        2. Corsair
          Corsair 2 August 2013 08: 02
          +2
          Quote: Vovka Levka
          The largest and most ardent nationalists in Ukraine are the Russians who live there. And it amazes me the most.

          And can you name many personalities, for example, from the VO Svoboda electoral list?
          1. Vovka levka
            Vovka levka 2 August 2013 10: 00
            +1
            Quote: Corsair
            Quote: Vovka Levka
            The largest and most ardent nationalists in Ukraine are the Russians who live there. And it amazes me the most.

            And can you name many personalities, for example, from the VO Svoboda electoral list?

            And who told you that Freedom is nationalists?
            Ask yourself, who are nationalists?
            In Russia, the most important nationalist is VV, he is a Russian nationalist, and rightly so, it should be so.
            1. Apologet.Ru
              Apologet.Ru 2 August 2013 11: 22
              +9
              hi
              And who told you that Freedom is nationalists?

              "Svobodovtsy" supported the Polish nationalists, who claim that a significant part of Western Ukraine, in particular the Lviv region, is in fact Polish territory. This suggests that "Svoboda" is ready to pay any price and make any compromises, even giving up part of the territory of Ukraine just to be recognized by political parties and movements in the EU countries. Fortunately, many Polish publicists and authors reminded Polish radical nationalists what Svoboda was, after which even groups of Polish skinheads - the most right-wing radicals - realized who they were dealing with and that it was impossible to get involved with Ukrainian Svoboda, ” - commented Mateusz Piskorski.
              According to him, VO "Svoboda" is the only completely isolated nationalist party in Europe. "As a political scientist, I will say: since it is the only isolated nationalist party, it means that it differs from a number of right-wing radical forces in Western Europe. First, by direct slogans directly related to Nazi ideology. Of course, you can spread nationalist slogans, but all this usually happens within the framework of observance of the rules of democracy and fundamental human rights.In Europe now there are no parties that directly call for violence against national minorities.There are all sorts of anti-emigrant movements, but there are no parties that talk about the need to study the genetic roots of a particular nation and exclusion from it people whose genetic roots do not match the pattern of the given nation, "he said.
              The Polish expert is sure that the Ukrainian "Svoboda" is not part of the nationalist movement and the nationalist ideology of Europe. "Freedom" is a kind of pathology of the Hitler type. This party has no friends in Europe, perhaps with the exception of German neo-fascists. Now the Europeans are sincerely surprised that the "Svoboda" members have entered the Ukrainian parliament. We hope that the voice of the "right-wing" European politicians who refuse any contacts and ties with "Svoboda" will influence the voters of this political force in the future. Let people think carefully about their choice, and if they want to support some right-wing conservative or even nationalist parties, there are such in Ukraine, and they are much more civilized than Svoboda. I think that in the near future we will see numerous analytical materials and reports, including representatives and experts associated with the nationalist right-wing parties, who will give their assessment of the activities of the VO "Svoboda". I am more than sure that the European parties will emphasize that they have nothing to do with such phenomena, "said Mateusz Piskorski.
              1. Apologet.Ru
                Apologet.Ru 2 August 2013 11: 25
                12
                I won’t tire of repeating that VO “Freedom” is the last Nazi bystryuk from the SS men from the Nazi guard units of Galichin, punitive mercenaries from the Nakhtigal and Roland battalions, and the Bandera population friendly to the Third Reich troops - speaking under the slogan “There is no God but Bandera Bogeyman is his prophet. And the so-called Western Ukraine - Galicia has never been Ukraine! Until the 1939 year - the ghetto of Europe (actually not even having its own industry, however, as now) and the litter for Poland, Austria-Hungary and fascist Germany. If it weren’t for the Soviet Union with the “m. Oskaly” in the 1939, which made it possible for it to exist and be called Western Ukraine as such, and its inhabitants - Ukrainians (!), Then they would still be sucked from these cities. would be proud of it! Yes, and now they mostly plow guest workers with nostalgia. Throughout their history, they fought with Kievan Rus, the Ukrainian Cossacks and Orthodoxy, therefore, in fact, they have no right to be called Ukrainians! Therefore, when the Galician ruling elite and the nationalist opposition speak of the “unity” of Ukraine, one should be aware that this refers to the unconditional surrender to the ideas of Bandera, the ideals of mercenaries from the special battalions and SS members of Galicia, Russophobia of the OUN-UPA and outspoken nationalist totalitarianism - the ideology formed in Galicia by the centuries-old efforts of Poles and Austrians, which boils down to the fact that the Ukrainian should fiercely hate everything Russian, including in himself.
                1. Vovka levka
                  Vovka levka 2 August 2013 15: 16
                  -9
                  Quote: Apologet.Ru
                  I won’t tire of repeating that VO “Freedom” is the last Nazi bystryuk from the SS men from the Nazi guard units of Galichin, punitive mercenaries from the Nakhtigal and Roland battalions, and the Bandera population friendly to the Third Reich troops - speaking under the slogan “There is no God but Bandera Bogeyman is his prophet. And the so-called Western Ukraine - Galicia has never been Ukraine! Until the 1939 year - the ghetto of Europe (actually not even having its own industry, however, as now) and the litter for Poland, Austria-Hungary and fascist Germany. If it weren’t for the Soviet Union with the “m. Oskaly” in the 1939, which made it possible for it to exist and be called Western Ukraine as such, and its inhabitants - Ukrainians (!), Then they would still be sucked from these cities. would be proud of it! Yes, and now they mostly plow guest workers with nostalgia. Throughout their history, they fought with Kievan Rus, the Ukrainian Cossacks and Orthodoxy, therefore, in fact, they have no right to be called Ukrainians! Therefore, when the Galician ruling elite and the nationalist opposition speak of the “unity” of Ukraine, one should be aware that this refers to the unconditional surrender to the ideas of Bandera, the ideals of mercenaries from the special battalions and SS members of Galicia, Russophobia of the OUN-UPA and outspoken nationalist totalitarianism - the ideology formed in Galicia by the centuries-old efforts of Poles and Austrians, which boils down to the fact that the Ukrainian should fiercely hate everything Russian, including in himself.

                  Where do you live? On Mars?
                  1. Apologet.Ru
                    Apologet.Ru 2 August 2013 18: 16
                    +8
                    Do you want to argue about these frames?
                    1. Apologet.Ru
                      Apologet.Ru 2 August 2013 18: 20
                      +9
                      Or with this information? -
                      The role of Galicia, which became part of the Ukrainian SSR only in 1939, and before that - from the end of the 14th century, divorced from the ethnogenesis, historical and cultural development of the Ukrainian people, in modern Ukraine is completely absurd. On the one hand, this is the most depressed region that could not survive without permanent subsidies from the state budget, consisting mainly of deductions from the industrialized southeastern regions. The majority of the population of Galicia successfully work abroad, does not pay taxes, but fully enjoys budgetary social protection.
                      On the other hand, the ruling Galich elite, which positions itself as an all-Ukrainian elite, behaves as if it contains Ukraine and therefore has the right to lead it. It is she who gives binding orders - which native language, which church to go to, who should be considered national heroes, and how ardently to love NATO.
                      Sevastopol or Odessa and the head would not come to arrange landings in Lviv to crush the monuments of Bandera, the seizure of temples or the requirements to teach children only in Russian. In Galicia, such political tourism, often paid for from special funds of state structures, became a permanent profitable, albeit disgusting industry.
                      The centuries-old misanthropic experiment conducted by Poland, Austria-Hungary, the Third Reich to turn Galicia into an anti-Russian, anti-Orthodox and ultimately anti-Ukrainian bridgehead, was a success. The anti-Russian and anti-Ukrainian ideology imposed on Galicia from the outside, with the help of the grown “fifth column”, forms the basis for a further offensive and its transfer to the Great Ukraine, whose population has never refused historical Ukrainian-Russian unity.
                      Expand the bridgehead to the borders of Russia is impossible without the destruction of the deep national mentality and erasure, even the amputation of historical memory, in which the zombie Galicia is called upon to play a key role.
                      Galicia has always been interested in foreign puppeteers not by itself - Galicians differently than “cannon fodder”, neither Warsaw, nor Vienna, nor Berlin were perceived, which showed the way of “Sich Riflemen”, SS “Galicia”, other invaders mercenaries.
                      Earlier, the Nazis also urgently needed Galichian punishers, who enthusiastically took on the dirtiest work, which disgusted even the German Einsatz groups. Traitors from Great Ukraine rarely could count on big posts in the occupation administration. Usually there was no progress beyond an ordinary policeman, a camp guard or an informant agent who was rewarded with rations, good coffee, things shot or a senior shutsman's badge. But the cadres brought to 1941 from Galicia became the basis of the staff of the occupational administration and the punitive organs of the Reich Commissariat "Ukraine", such as all the leaders of Kiev's "Ukrainian auxiliary police" - Butkevych, Zakhvalynsky, Kabayda, Orlik. It is indicative that the first, most massive, executions at Babi Yar after the refusal of the commander of the German Einsatz group were specifically entrusted to the future elite of the UPA - the Bukovinsky smoking room under the command of Peter Voinovsky.
                      1. Vovka levka
                        Vovka levka 4 August 2013 11: 59
                        -4
                        Have you ever been to Western Ukraine, talked with people? I think no.
                        Ordinary people live there, there are no destroyed churches, no one does anything there on church holidays and Sundays. People go to church.
                        There are, of course, different "artists", but their percentage is no more than not living in other places.
                        For me personally, there is no difference between Bolshevism and fascism. Both those and those nonhumans.
                        I am not a supporter of some kind of party, for me this issue has long been closed.
                        But I will tell you this, you never need to hang tags. On the one hand, this is the easiest way, but on the other hand the most terrible and bloody one, it does not lead to understanding, it leads to mutual hatred. And between different people, there is always a more general undead of different things. And if you want, you can always find a common language.
                        Now in Ukraine in power, the forces that Russia wanted in 2004, and the relationship is worse than the "orange", why? Ask yourself why?
                        Yes, because interests are different.
                      2. Don
                        Don 6 August 2013 13: 30
                        +1
                        Quote: Vovka Levka
                        For me personally, there is no difference between Bolshevism and fascism. Both those and those nonhumans.

                        I don’t remember something that the Bolsheviks would poison people in gas chambers.
                        Quote: Vovka Levka
                        Now in Ukraine in power, the forces that Russia wanted in 2004, and the relationship is worse than the "orange", why? Ask yourself why?

                        Nothing like this. Oranzheve did not want to sign a new agreement with the Russian Federation on the Black Sea Fleet, but Yanukovych signed. There are of course problems, but they can be solved. All of them are based on geopolitics.
              2. Yoshkin Kot
                Yoshkin Kot 2 August 2013 15: 43
                -1
                they are Ukrainians, flesh from flesh, when it comes to you that it is ukrostvo that is a mental illness that makes of a Russian (maloros, a) clinical Russophobe
                1. Panikovsky
                  Panikovsky 4 August 2013 17: 37
                  +2
                  you yourself are mentally ill, or just a clinical degenerate, Mr. Yoshkin cat.
              3. Ulan
                Ulan 2 August 2013 19: 09
                +3
                In many respects you are right. People who are trying to prove today that they are real Ukrainians, were either under Austria-Hungary or under Poland for 600 years. This could not but tell.
                They have long turned into a separate nation.
          2. Apologet.Ru
            Apologet.Ru 2 August 2013 18: 50
            +6
            Quote Vovka Levka
            In Russia, the most important nationalist is VV, he is a Russian nationalist, and rightly so, it should be so.

            You yourself did not understand nationalism.
            And therefore you are mistaken ...
            The President of Russia cannot, in fact, be a Russian nationalist, even if he, well, would really like to.
            Do you know why?
            You will not believe!
            For the very reason that if you do not know - Russia is a multinational state - currently numbering 194 nationalities and ethnic groups - one hundred ninety-four!
            What you can easily see by typing in a search engine, for example the phrase "How many nationalities in Russia."
            Based on this, the President of Russia can only be a Russian nationalist.
            And there is nothing wrong with that, with which I completely agree.
            The fascist VO “Freedom” proclaims the Nazi postulates of the superiority of one nation over others.
            Have you ever wondered how, in that conglomeration of nationalities and peoples that have historically developed in Ukraine, they will identify the titular Ukrainians?
            Judging by their statements - just like the Nazis - measure the skulls with a pair of compasses.
            And what to do with Ukrainians - UPA in Babi Yar and Volhynia showed ...
          3. S_mirnov
            S_mirnov 3 August 2013 16: 41
            0
            "In Russia, the most important nationalist is V.V., he is a Russian nationalist and rightly so," - If he is a nationalist, then definitely not a Russian laughing
            1. Vovka levka
              Vovka levka 4 August 2013 12: 02
              0
              You are sure? Look carefully, and be very surprised.
          4. Don
            Don 6 August 2013 13: 25
            0
            Quote: Vovka Levka
            And who told you that Freedom is nationalists?
            Ask yourself, who are nationalists?

            So can you enlighten us?
            Quote: Vovka Levka
            In Russia, the most important nationalist is VV, he is a Russian nationalist, and rightly so, it should be so.

            Do not confuse patriotism with nationalism.
      3. APASUS
        APASUS 2 August 2013 14: 37
        +3
        Quote: Vovka Levka
        The difference in the situation between Russia and Ukraine is the difference in the number of minerals sold over the hill. And this makes a difference in the quality of life. But technology and minerals will win, technology will win and this is an indisputable fact.

        How simple it is for you!
        Here Japan, South Korea have no fossils at all and live the same! As for Ukraine, there are a dozen oligarchs in the country - who rule the ball! And they don’t care what’s happening with this people !!!
        Hence all the trade wars, not the population rushing to scream for expensive gas, but metallurgists. For the population, it was already expensive then!
        1. Vovka levka
          Vovka levka 2 August 2013 15: 15
          +3
          Quote: APASUS
          Ukraine is considered a poor country and this is not because people are loafers. And from the fact that its leaders are so invited, let's say dishonest so to say. And it makes people look for ways to live.


          You carefully read the comment.
          "Ukraine is considered a poor country and this is not because people are idlers. But because its leaders are so called, to put it mildly dishonorable. And this makes people look for ways to live."
          1. Simon
            Simon 5 August 2013 15: 37
            0
            Yeah, the green will come - rob, the white will come - rob, the red will come - rob, where does the poor Ukrainian go? request
      4. Apologet.Ru
        Apologet.Ru 2 August 2013 22: 19
        +6
        MoloRussia? Then we can say Kievan Rus.

        As your illiteracy and repetition of myths, like mantras, already got.
        You yourself claim that “But technology and minerals will win, technology will win and this is an indisputable fact.”
        At the same time, you use your PC yourself only as a push button - a finger simulator.
        But it’s not at all difficult, but for this you need to have at least a great desire, which just doesn’t exist, to find out that the term “Kievan Rus” was first formulated and applied in the work “Russian History” (full name of the first edition: “Russian History” from the most ancient times, vigilant works thirty years later collected and described by the late Privy Councilor and Astrakhan Governor Vasily Nikitich Tatishchev ")
        But the princes of Kiev and in a terrible dream could not have imagined that their descendants would divide themselves into Russians and Ukrainians ...
        1. Vovka levka
          Vovka levka 4 August 2013 12: 16
          0
          Quote: Apologet.Ru
          MoloRussia? Then we can say Kievan Rus.

          As your illiteracy and repetition of myths, like mantras, already got.

          I don’t think myself too smart, but not stupid either.
          And you didn’t get my illiteracy, but a different vision of the situation.
          I have a different principle, the world is different than the undead, we think, the world is different and everything must be read, try to understand it.
          Misunderstanding leads to trouble.
          And history is always written, how beneficial, such a human nature.
          Take for example the same Rezun (Suvorov). You can generally disagree with him, this is a different, secondary issue. The most important thing there is a methodology for collecting and analyzing information. Here lies the most important harm that he did to the Soviet Union.
      5. bistrov.
        bistrov. 2 August 2013 23: 18
        +2
        Quote: Vovka Levka
        MoloRussia? Then we can say Kievan Rus.

        Ukraine has lost the right to be called Rus, choosing for itself the name "outskirts".
        1. Apologet.Ru
          Apologet.Ru 3 August 2013 01: 08
          +4
          hi
          , choosing the name "outskirts".

          It was not she who called herself that, but she was called ...
          1. Simon
            Simon 5 August 2013 15: 49
            0
            Not..! Ukrainian scientists from Yushchenko proved that the Ukrainian people evolved from some ukrov. So, everything is correct - no one called them, they appeared. laughing
        2. Simon
          Simon 5 August 2013 15: 45
          0
          So the Ukrainian people evolved from some ukrov, and not from Kievan Rus. Your smart scientists have proven this, led by Yushchenko. belay
      6. Babon
        Babon 3 August 2013 01: 02
        +2
        It’s just that you have to go to the army and surrender to the motherland, there will be no such statements. I personally ended up in a company where there were 12 boxing CCMs, believe me, it was hard for many, but somehow served. 2001-2003, I’m a little smaller, they’ll send people like you to defend their homeland, immediately surrender to your enemies, and explain to them about freedom, and who the loafer is. Just surrender, and then explain to them that you are a free man, he wrote something here.
        1. Panikovsky
          Panikovsky 5 August 2013 19: 50
          +1
          hey honey, and I in 1984, after honey. Institute, did not chew snot, served a year and a half, privates, for your information, but don’t worry, I washed toilets, I went to work outfits according to the full scheme, especially for workers in the kitchen. the most disgusting-daily company on the bedside table.
      7. DmitriRazumov
        DmitriRazumov 3 August 2013 14: 12
        +1
        Quote: Vovka Levka
        MoloRussia? Then we can say Kievan Rus.

        I agree, but Kievan Rus is our common fatherland, our common past and our common pride ... The concept of Little Russia was formed in the 19th century .. when the name "Ukraine" was not used in the sense of designating any territory. In Russian, Ukraine is the inhabitants of border territories, i.e. in documents of the 15th and 16th centuries. we meet the concepts of Ryazan Ukrainians, Tver, etc. During the period of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, the territories on the right stream of the Dnieper were called Lithuania, and the inhabitants of them called themselves Russian Orthodox people. There were seversk lands, etc. Muscovite Russia collected this mosaic then gradually, paying with the treasury and the blood of its soldiers.
        Undoubtedly, the middle and lower (often unregistered) layer of the Cossacks defended their privileges and, above all, the Orthodox faith in the struggle against the Polish magnates. because at 16, 17 century the gentry became insolent and began to forcibly demand the conversion of all the inhabitants of Unia to the Roman faith. The top of the ruling class (Pan Storozhevsky - Kiev voivode, etc.) repainted very quickly, but the bulk of the population was against it. In addition, the gentry did not consider the inhabitants of Russia as equitable, therefore, many bloody conflict situations arose.
        Here conditions objectively arose for the unification of the right-bank Russia with Moscow.
        At the expense of "enlightened" Europe. The Westerners, as noted here, have always been engaged in the fact that they were a source of cheap, low-skilled labor, and they are still proud of this. I have friends in Tartakov, and those who work as a plumber (illegally) in London are most popular there. At the same time, they earnestly believe that there can be nothing better in the world ...
        As for the other side of European life, we can confidently say that the old woman has long been in a deep crisis for a long time. She is saved by a neocolonial policy in relation to the so-called new Europeans, as this allows you to destroy the local economy and get free markets for their not-so-advanced technologies and goods. I know this not by hearsay, because worked for 10 years at the multinational company Siemens. This is if without details.
        1. Vovka levka
          Vovka levka 4 August 2013 12: 28
          0
          No one is against the fact that they are common. No one disputes this. The other is disputed, there must be respect for the people, otherwise they will move away. This must be understood. We ourselves chop the branch on which we sit. There will be no Ukraine, there will be no Russia. The Russian Empire will no longer exist, the train has left, the desire to recreate it will lead to a common misfortune. Take a look at what's happening in the world: China, the radicalization of Islam, and time is running out. And we all can’t figure out who is longer and thicker. Insanity and more.
      8. Passer
        Passer 4 August 2013 21: 09
        0
        Quote: Vovka Levka
        The largest and most ardent nationalists in Ukraine are the Russians who live there. And it amazes me the most.

        It turns out to be a strange phenomenon, I have many Ukrainians living in Russia among relatives and acquaintances. And, what is most interesting, I heard the most anti-Ukrainian statements precisely from them, about immigrants from the Caucasus, however, they are also very sharply expressed. And try to call someone Ukrainian-offended.
      9. Don
        Don 6 August 2013 13: 15
        0
        Quote: Vovka Levka
        The largest and most ardent nationalists in Ukraine are the Russians who live there.

        What a paradox. What kind of Russians are in the freedom party? Where did you even read that?
        Quote: Vovka Levka
        The difference in the situation between Russia and Ukraine is the difference in the number of minerals sold over the hill. And from this the difference in the quality of life.

        Primitive logic. The level of economic well-being does not depend on what you export. And what kind of minerals is Ukraine selling over the hill? The main export items of Ukraine are products of ferrous metallurgy, chemical industry and mechanical engineering.
        Quote: Vovka Levka
        But the struggle between technology and minerals, technology will win and this is an indisputable fact.

        What do you mean by "Technology"? Science-intensive production? That is, in your opinion, Russia and Ukraine do not produce science-intensive products? laughing
        There is no and cannot be any struggle between them. These are interconnected things. And I don’t remember that Hong Kong, Luxembourg or the UAE would be engaged in high-tech production, and they are economically strong countries.
  2. INTER
    INTER 1 August 2013 08: 52
    39
    Ukraine is part of Russia, the situation is as follows: part of the minority is for integration with the EU, the majority is for integration with Russia, and this is the minority that rules the ball so far. The task of Russia is to awaken the gene memory of Ukrainians with the goal of restoring the identity of the two peoples and understanding that we have the same roots, one story, enemies and friends alone, plans for slavery both in Ukraine and in Russia in the interests of some. Cope with this, INTEGRATION IS INEVITABLE !!!!! yes
    1. Garrin
      Garrin 1 August 2013 09: 25
      23
      Quote: INTER
      The situation is as follows: part of the minority is for integration with the EU, the majority is for integration with Russia, and this is the minority and rules the ball so far.

      I do not share your optimism about this. Now approximately in half, both.
      Quote: INTER
      The task of Russia is to awaken the gene memory of Ukrainians in order to restore the identity of the 2 peoples and understand that we have the same roots, the same story, enemies and friends alone,

      Do not forget that since the collapse of the Soviet Union, and especially after the "Orazhopa" revolution, a generation has been brought up that is already considered a potential enemy of Russia. Especially the Westerners.
      1. INTER
        INTER 1 August 2013 12: 25
        +3
        Quote: Garrin
        Do not forget that since the collapse of the Soviet Union, and especially after the "Orazhopa" revolution, a generation has been brought up that is already considered a potential enemy of Russia. Especially the Westerners.

        Igor do not generalize and do not forget that most of this generation was brought up by the same Soviet people, they didn’t fall off the moon, most of the population remained people because of economic distress, and those whom you call it what is commonly called the cream of society, spoiled children, although they grew up but think childishly. We need to take care of the current generation, because our grandfathers, and someone else's fathers leave. You do not need to live in the past, you need to build a bright future (do not think, not a communist))))))
        1. Garrin
          Garrin 1 August 2013 16: 12
          +6
          Quote: INTER
          No need to live in the past, you need to build a bright future (do not think, not a communist))))))

          I would be glad to agree with you (my closest ones, my mother, sister and nephew stayed in Donetsk and my father and grandfathers were buried there), but unfortunately I have to put up with the facts. Vaughn, Kiev, fascists from "Freedom" and "blow", Klitschkovsky in the parliament dragged. AND THIS IS A FACT. am
      2. Normal
        Normal 1 August 2013 13: 25
        +6
        Quote: INTER
        INTEGRATION IS INEVITABLE !!!!!

        Quote: Garrin
        I do not share your optimism about this

        I agree with Igor. Integration requires the interest of those in power. And the leadership of Russia and Ukraine is concerned about their mercantile interest. All attempts at rapprochement are dictated only by the fact that it can be slightly beneficial, but not too much. Therefore, the authorities are not too concerned about this rapprochement.
    2. silver_roman
      silver_roman 1 August 2013 13: 20
      +9
      Hello comrades. I will introduce myself as follows in order to exclude certain questions specific to me: I am a citizen of the Russian Federation who currently lives in Kiev, because Ukraine is my homeland.

      minority for integration with the EU, majority for integration with Russia

      Not certainly in that way. I would say differently: many simply do not know. and most of them seem to me. What repels integration with the Russian Federation: heterogeneity of peoples and emigration from countries of Central Asia, i.e. Azeris, Tajiks, etc.
      It really does not suit many.

      the second is concerns for the banal buying up of the entire business in Ukraine. Those. oligarchs close to the government of the Russian Federation (pleasing to him) will buy up the remains of enterprises and, in fact, Ukraine will be left without production.

      This I said two aspects that I often hear. I objected a lot to these phobias in the sense that for Kiev personally it is normal to convert factories into shopping malls. This is me about the most powerful plant in its time "Bolshevik". So it is not yet clear which of the evils is the least.
      At the expense of emigration policy, I agree. One of the reasons that did not stay in Russia was precisely the oversaturation of society by immigrants from the Caucasus. Everything is much simpler here: there are very few of them, and if there are, then they are put in place quickly too.

      the only benefit to me from joining the EU or accepting an association is that it’s possible that car taxes will drop and it will be possible for 5 cu buy a beautiful behu in Germany and clear it for a penny))). Of course, I'm joking about the latter, because such trifles should in no way affect the erosion of one nation. This is my subjective opinion.
      1. INTER
        INTER 1 August 2013 13: 57
        +6
        Quote: silver_roman
        the second is concerns for the banal buying up of the entire business in Ukraine. Those. oligarchs close to the government of the Russian Federation (pleasing to him) will buy up the remains of enterprises and, in fact, Ukraine will be left without production.

        I don’t see a problem with this, but this is an opinion, but the same businessmen will not leave these same enterprises for Russia, but will breathe new life. Moreover, with a scientific, technical and intellectual base, Ukraine would receive noticeable dividends from the rearmament of the Russian army. And at the expense of agricultural products it’s not possible to sell it like that in Europe, competitors will not strangle them sparingly, and the Russian market is not so aggressive yet, an example is the marketing of the same products by Belarusians. The main foreign trade partner of the organizations of the Ministry of Agriculture is the Russian Federation. According to Belstat, in 2012, products worth 2 billion 661 million US dollars were delivered to Russia (18,7% more than in 2011), the press service of the Ministry of Agriculture of the country reports. In 2012, export of products to the CIS countries, except Russia, amounted to 160,6 million US dollars. The foreign trade balance according to the Ministry of Agriculture and Food System amounted to 2012 billion 1 million US dollars in 884,9 and increased by 2011 million dollars compared to 440.
      2. carver
        carver 1 August 2013 15: 52
        +5
        silver_roman

        Yes, but in Crimea, the same Crimean Tatars are almost bred. So where you need to .. Slavs Westerners and in Ukraine endure whoever is needed. And in Russia as well, the problem with the Caucasus and a crowd of Asian migrants will be decided as soon as the authorities need it.
      3. Gecko
        Gecko 1 August 2013 18: 17
        +4
        In Ukraine, actually Ukrainians - 78%
        In Russia, the same Russians - 81%
        Ignorance and brainwashing by disinformation by foreign agents is the scourge of today's Ukraine. Now, if Ukraine was, would be economically attractive, then all of Asia would rush to you, and it’s easy to reason. In the United States, in just a few years, whites will become a minority in relation to blacks and Mexicans. In France, about 9% of the total population come from Muslim countries. In Germany, up to 4% of the population are ethnic Turks. And the list goes on ...
        But if, at the time, the Russian Empire had not cleared the Tatars and Turks of Novorossia and Crimea, you would have to get along with these Turkic peoples in larger quantities than now and Russia's accusations of non-Slavism would be inappropriate.
    3. Nicholas C.
      Nicholas C. 1 August 2013 14: 07
      +5
      The author tried to write reasonable thoughts.

      Only illiteracy in native history is very jarring. I understand that Svidomitism deprived Ukrainians of historical knowledge, and not only. I think in all subjects. This is the tragedy of modern Ukraine. An intelligent and knowledgeable person is dangerous to power.
      Quote: Author Yuri Gorodnenko, political scientist (Kiev)
      Let me remind you that the hetman raised the Cossacks in rebellion in 1648 with the goal of upholding the liberties granted by the former kings of the Commonwealth.

      Sounds absurd. Many works have been written about the reasons for the uprising. It is a pity that the author is not familiar with any of them. If it is difficult to read historians, then one could read at least "Taras Bulba", the story is not about the times of Khmelnitsky, but Nalyvayko, but the reasons are similar. Some liberties were given by Vladislav, who owed the Sagaidachny Cossacks for the bloody campaign to Moscow, when Vladislav still claimed the Moscow throne.
      Quote: Author Yuri Gorodnenko, political scientist (Kiev)
      Warsaw and Moscow decided to simply agree, dividing Ukraine in half ... in 1667

      Well, not in half. From the Russian lands of Poland, the Russian kingdom only went to Poltava and Kiev region (also Smolensk and Chernihiv). Already Bogdan Khmelnitsky had begged Chernigov to the hetman, conquered by the Russian kingdom from Lithuania as early as 1500m, and withdrawn to Poland along the Deulinsky truce. Maybe all the lands would have gotten, but Vygovsky, having called the Turks and Poles, near Konotop, deprived Russia of such an opportunity.

      It is strange that the author writes about the Andrusovo truce, and not about the Eternal World of 1686. The interval between the dates is an entire era of Ruins, when Poland and Turkey agreed among themselves that the right-bank lands not left to the Russian kingdom should be wasted, when almost the entire population there was executed, driven into slavery, fled to free lands (i.e. not distributed) among the nobles and not used by the treasury) lands (where they settled with freedoms or settlements.)

      Quote: Author Yuri Gorodnenko, political scientist (Kiev)
      The second layer is the legacy of Catherine II. This is Southeastern Ukraine, which was formed due to the Novorossiysk Territory conquered from Turkey in the XNUMXth century and reorganized by the great Empress of Slobozhanshchina.

      Catherine reorganized a lot of things. Only Slobozhanschna existed long before. And it was Slobozhansky regiments that pacified all sorts of tensions in the Hetmanism under Peter and before. The very meaning of Slobodanism in the free lands between the divided in the kingdom and the Cossack. For example, under Paul there was just such a Sloboda Ukrainian province from Sumy, Akhtyrka, Bogodukhov, Kharkov to the Volga.

      Quote: Author Yuri Gorodnenko, political scientist (Kiev)
      The Soviet era buried the weak Russophile movement that existed in Galicia.

      There is no need to slander the Soviet era. Russophiles were subjected to genocide, concentration camps Talerhof, Terezin in Austrian Galicia. And the newly-minted "Ukrainians" played a significant role in this. The great Russophile Rusyn Ivan Franko, who is never Soviet, has a lot about this.
      1. densh
        densh 1 August 2013 19: 36
        +2
        I recommend Olesya Buzin on these topics - a lot of fun
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. FATEMOGAN
      FATEMOGAN 1 August 2013 23: 20
      +1
      Quote: INTER
      Ukraine is part of Russia, the situation is as follows: part of the minority is for integration with the EU, the majority is for integration with Russia, and this is the minority that rules the ball so far.


      That's right, but this minority is more aggressive and more passionate, and the majority sits mostly and does nothing, they drive him into a geyropa and it is silent and goes on ... So if Ukraine goes into western flight, then it’s 100 percent sure that the people will not go up and will continue to listen to fairy tales. I don’t remember, in my opinion Wassermean said that only a couple of percent of the population is needed for the revolution, so it turns out that in Ukraine there are not a couple of percent who are ready to take to the streets and say resolutely NO !!!, dragging the country to the west. Honestly, I would really like to be mistaken and believe that you are right, but most likely Ukraine will go into the western orbit for a long time.
  3. biglow
    biglow 1 August 2013 08: 59
    15
    Quote: xetai9977
    It seems that the month of Ukraine is being announced on the site.

    Little Russia and New Russia are the primordial lands of Russia and Kiev is the mother of Russian cities. And often remember the lost brothers more often that as soon as possible to return them to their home.
  4. domokl
    domokl 1 August 2013 08: 59
    +6
    Quote: xetai9977
    It seems that the month of Ukraine is being announced on the site.

    Well, not really ... It’s just now that the time has come to a logical conclusion. It’s like in a street brawl. Let’s start to smoke, and then a blow to the nose. Anyway, anyway. Ukraine has cornered itself. Signing an agreement with The EU will cut off the country almost immediately from other Slavic and other countries. The talk about the united people will cease. And economic relations, in many respects too. Ukraine will become one of the foreign countries, and not the most necessary one.
  5. KazaK Bo
    KazaK Bo 1 August 2013 09: 26
    +3
    Quote: xetai9977
    It seems that the month of Ukraine is being announced on the site.

    A month of analysis of relations between Russia and your republic is ahead! Ukraine is closer to us in all matters ...
    Crises in Europe, which means automatically both in our country ... and in Ukraine, will soon give Galicia, that is to say, Z. Ukraine, to understand that, to infinity, Eastern and Southern Ukraine will not just feed "Westerners" for their beautiful eyes and national spirit. ". After all, the industrialized East provides the bulk of the national product.
    And Yanukovych is "balancing" between these two opposite directions in the development of Ukraine because he does not have firm all-Ukrainian support in all strata of Ukrainian society. He is the choice of the eastern part of Ukraine. And today Yanukovych simply does not want a civil war ... he does not want a split in Ukraine ... he does not want to go down in history with the image of "Judas" Gorbachev, who destroyed the USSR. So he tries, like a "tender calf, to suck two cows" ... But every year it is more difficult to do this. Whether Ukraine wants it or not, it will have to make a choice.
    And the role of Putin should be persistently respectful, without signs of obvious pressure ... with an explanation of the position of our state. Rather, this is needed in order for the Ukrainian people to understand us and support the movement towards integration with Russia.
    1. biglow
      biglow 1 August 2013 10: 04
      +6
      [quote = KazaK Bo] [quote = xetai9977] today Yanukovych simply does not want a civil war ... does not want a split in Ukraine .... [/ quote]
      All that Yanukovych wants now is more power and money. More cottages, more factories and all for themselves and a little associates. And then he will think how to save it all. And his sons are all that you can row for yourself, and that you can’t also row. Moreover, by any means ... That rushes between two fires ..
    2. Luna
      Luna 1 August 2013 10: 25
      +9
      does not want a civil war ... does not want to split Ukraine ... does not want to go down in history with the image of "Judas" Gorbachev, who destroyed the USSR

      And interestingly, he does not want this at the expense of the population who voted for him. And those who were against him - a green street. Here you have European integration, a civilizational choice, and nationalists in the Rada (just don’t write that they themselves crawled into it without the help of his party).
      1. sincman
        sincman 1 August 2013 11: 03
        26
        Quote: Luna
        And interestingly, he does not want this at the expense of the population who voted for him. And those who were against him - a green street. Here you have European integration, a civilizational choice, and nationalists in the Rada (just don’t write that they themselves crawled into it without the help of his party).

        I agree with all the points. Excellent behavior of Yanukovych reveals in his interview N.M. Vitrenko


        ps When I, due to my stupidity and avarice of my then worldview, suffered from an orange disease, like many Ukrainians, I honestly admit that I did not like it. But now I repent and bow low to this unyielding woman who never changed her Proto-Slavic position for the sake of the current situation. She should be known in Russia, as one of the last, really adequate Ukrainian politicians.
        No wonder they say, for one beaten, they give two unbeaten! Having been ill with an orange disease (like chickenpox) for the rest of my life I gained a stable immunity to this pernicious disease! But now I am very firm in my positions on the issue of our common future! My view is clear and no whining and counter-propaganda will not break me and will not deceive me. I knew all the lies from within.
        1. 89501358976
          89501358976 1 August 2013 15: 50
          +7
          I watched the video with this courageous woman !!! Thank you for the laid out video. I THINKED ONE OF FEDOROUS ABOUT THIS. SLAVEN, BROTHERS LET'S COMBINE. NEED TO BE UNIVERSALLY! soldier
        2. shpuntik
          shpuntik 1 August 2013 16: 00
          +4
          sincman (1) UA Today, 11:03 ↑
          Yanukovych’s discovery reveals N.M. Vitrenko

          Andrey, "Respect" for the video good .
          I was a month ago in the Crimea, with a friend. Not even publicly convey the opinion of this married couple about "Janek". In short, they say this: bandits.
        3. igor67
          igor67 1 August 2013 16: 13
          +6
          [quote = sincman] [quote = Luna]

          ps When I, due to my stupidity and avarice of my then worldview, suffered from an orange disease, like many Ukrainians, I honestly admit that I did not like it. But now I repent and bow low to this unyielding woman who never changed her Proto-Slavic position for the sake of the current situation. She should be known in Russia, as one of the last, really adequate Ukrainian politicians.
          No wonder they say, for one beaten, they give two unbeaten! Having been ill with an orange disease (like chickenpox) for the rest of my life I gained a stable immunity to this pernicious disease! But now I am very firm in my positions on the issue of our common future! My view is clear and no whining and counter-propaganda will not break me and will not deceive me. I knew all the lies from the inside. [/ Quote]
          And I was in PSPU in the 90s and I know Mikhalovna personally, a good woman, strong and literally and figuratively
          1. zmey_gadukin
            zmey_gadukin 2 August 2013 15: 41
            +2
            She is also a good economist.
        4. egor 1712
          egor 1712 1 August 2013 20: 53
          +4
          Sorry for voting against you, Natalya.
  6. avt
    avt 1 August 2013 10: 48
    +3
    Quote: xetai9977
    It seems that the month of Ukraine is being announced on the site.

    It is getting colder - there will be a weekly. laughing
  7. The comment was deleted.
  8. Civil
    Civil 1 August 2013 19: 16
    +1
    yes figs with Ukraine we have enough of our problems, for example, how to return Crimea
    1. zmey_gadukin
      zmey_gadukin 2 August 2013 15: 42
      -3
      and do not forget Alaska))))
  • serge-68-68
    serge-68-68 1 August 2013 08: 41
    +3
    The month will be delayed until November inclusive - if in October they sign the EU document
    1. seller trucks
      seller trucks 1 August 2013 10: 12
      0
      Quote: serge-68-68
      a month will be delayed until November inclusive - if in October they sign the EU document


      well, sign what? In any case, they do not become a full member of the EU after signing the association, here is a list of transformations:


      Tool for pro-European transformations (?)
      Not declarations, but legal obligations (?)
      The agreement is based on shared values ​​(LGBT)
      State and society: European-style relationships (?)
      Strengthening consumer rights (?)
      More products at lower prices (imported)
      Clean environment (itself, the closure of nuclear power plants, and other "harmful" industries: metallurgy, chemistry, mechanical engineering)
      Less road deaths (?)
      Quality education (paid)
      Momentum for sectoral collaboration (?)
  • smel
    smel 1 August 2013 08: 43
    25
    It was not necessary to recall the 16-17 century, but to recall the merits of Lenin, who gave Kharkov and other important industrial areas, Khrushchev, for the gift of Crimea and Stalin, for the annexed western territories - these are the real political figures who made Ukraine a country
    1. serge-68-68
      serge-68-68 1 August 2013 11: 53
      10
      So, after all, none of them (especially Stalin) could have thought that in the relatively not too distant future their comparatively diminutive followers would carelessly ruin everything that was created by the people and paid for by their blood. It was paid dearly.
  • v53993
    v53993 1 August 2013 08: 43
    17
    Once again, Ukraine was not lucky with the rulers. If potatoes and lard become imported, then this is no longer a farce, but a tragedy in the history of Ukraine.
    1. ziqzaq
      ziqzaq 1 August 2013 08: 53
      24
      Quote: v53993
      If potatoes and lard become imported

      What-o-o-o-o!!?! ???? Imported lard ??????
      This is the genocide of the Ukrainian people .............
      1. AVV
        AVV 1 August 2013 10: 24
        +7
        Yes, fat is imported from Belarus and Poland !!!
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 1 August 2013 12: 44
          +6
          Quote: AVV
          Yes, fat is imported from Belarus and Poland !!

          So Ukrainian damned Muscovites gobbled up laughing
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Fastblast
            Fastblast 1 August 2013 16: 13
            0
            Muslims do not eat fat. Didn't you know?
            1. Gecko
              Gecko 1 August 2013 21: 56
              +3
              For your information, most Tatars like to eat pork. lol
              And the pork is mostly local.
    2. atalef
      atalef 1 August 2013 13: 15
      -4
      Quote: v53993
      If potatoes and lard become imported, then this is no longer a farce, but a tragedy in the history of Ukraine.

      Yesterday I was at the market in Kiev, the sea was fat, you can bite off delicious language. 40 hryvnias a kilo (160 rubles). I found no shortage, let alone import.
      1. biglow
        biglow 1 August 2013 15: 00
        +9
        Quote: atalef
        Quote: v53993
        If potatoes and lard become imported, then this is no longer a farce, but a tragedy in the history of Ukraine.

        Yesterday I was at the market in Kiev, the sea was fat, you can bite off delicious language. 40 hryvnias a kilo (160 rubles). I found no shortage, let alone import.

        you ask them to show you certificates for meat and fat. Most of them are Polish. You can also look at the stamps on the carcasses, all the pork except a small part is made in Poland. In Ukraine, it is not profitable to grow meat now.
        1. zmey_gadukin
          zmey_gadukin 2 August 2013 15: 43
          0
          Quote: biglow
          In Ukraine, it is not profitable to grow meat now.

          Who said that? )))
          Profitable. Very profitable!
          It’s just that it’s very difficult to establish production with our laws if there are no homies in executive committees and councils ...
      2. zmey_gadukin
        zmey_gadukin 2 August 2013 15: 45
        0
        Quote: atalef
        I found no shortage, let alone import.

        This comment contradicts the mood of the society))) relocation and cons)))
        My +
        I see meat and lard almost every day ... how is it grown in the sense)
  • a52333
    a52333 1 August 2013 08: 45
    20
    In the light of these events, you involuntarily ask yourself whether the EU and Russia will act with Kiev in the same way as the Moscow tsar and the king of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth - with the corrupt Hetman's power in 1667 year?

    The question is not that. divide Ukraine, or not divide. The question is different: YES WAKE YOU !!!!Where did you see the dairy rivers there? Who needs you there? They are already starting to flee from the European Union. Those who entered in shock. Great, only Germany needs the European Union to increase its sales market. Lithuania, Bulgaria - look at them! stop negative fool
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 1 August 2013 12: 45
      +6
      Quote: a52333
      Lithuania, Bulgaria - look at them!

      E-nnet, they cite Holland, Germany as an example, but they do not notice Lithuania and Bulgaria.
    2. fedorovith
      fedorovith 1 August 2013 13: 10
      +4
      Yes, no one is going to divide Ukraine, if it goes further it will fall apart, but at what cost? God forbid.
      1. Poppy
        Poppy 1 August 2013 14: 52
        +4
        yes, it’s going to collapse
        I think it will be three parts, one of which will be asked to Russia
  • cosmos111
    cosmos111 1 August 2013 08: 46
    +8
    The peoples of Russia and Ukraine for close integration. With the creation of a single state, based on 3 Slavic republics. But politicians in Uraine did not belong to any party and with what slogans they did not come to power, having received power they forget about integration with Russia and completely .And they intensively climb into Europe-Oppa, although no one is waiting for them there.
    1. domokl
      domokl 1 August 2013 08: 55
      +2
      Quote: cosmos111
      The peoples of Russia and Ukraine for close integration.

      Why did you get this? From the comments of our colleagues? Or from a personal position? The peoples of Ukraine and Russia expressed their position in the elections. And they chose those who now rule and adopt laws.
      1. biglow
        biglow 1 August 2013 09: 01
        +4
        Quote: domokl
        Quote: cosmos111
        The peoples of Russia and Ukraine for close integration.

        Why did you get this? From the comments of our colleagues? Or from a personal position? The peoples of Ukraine and Russia expressed their position in the elections. And they chose those who now rule and adopt laws.

        a good politician always promises voters what they want to hear. Winston Churchill
        1. domokl
          domokl 1 August 2013 09: 14
          -1
          Quote: biglow
          a good politician always promises voters what they want to hear. Winston Churchill

          And it goes on for over 20 years lol
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 1 August 2013 12: 54
            +7
            Quote: domokl
            And it goes on for over 20 years

            Hello Sasha! For more than 20 years, people have been bred, but people still believe that they will live, as in Storage laughing
            1. Corsair
              Corsair 2 August 2013 08: 33
              +2
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              For more than 20 years, people have been bred, but people still believe that they will live, as in Storage

              Before the collapse of the USSR in Ukraine, propaganda instilled a special, almost "God-chosen" halo of Ukraine, which, by now, is somewhat "tarnished".
              Separate elements of propaganda were leaflets of the NRU (People's Movement of Ukraine), which stated that:
              Ukraine feeds the USSR;
              everything is taken away from Ukraine;
              thanks to its bowels and resources, Ukraine (without Russia, the main exploiter)Instantlywill turn into prosperous self-sufficient European state ...
              AND WHERE IS IT ALL?What is stopping the "dancer"?
          2. Marconi41
            Marconi41 1 August 2013 14: 23
            -2
            it goes on much longer, and not only in Ukraine! Or is it different with us ?!
          3. biglow
            biglow 1 August 2013 19: 27
            +3
            Quote: domokl
            Quote: biglow
            a good politician always promises voters what they want to hear. Winston Churchill

            And it goes on for over 20 years lol

            in Ukraine everything is as always, most of the people earn money in Russia, and the most unskillful people work inside the country. So they’re waiting for something. A friend of the qualified builders of Ukrainians from Moscow wrote to the Crimea. Closer nothing worthwhile could not be found ... laughing
      2. cosmos111
        cosmos111 1 August 2013 09: 24
        +9
        And where did you get the idea that nations are against a single state. If you are personally domokl drinking, these are your problems.
        Now hold a referendum in Russia, Ukraine and Belarus not 80%, the population spoke in favor of creating a single state.

        A bilateral meeting between Vladimir Putin and Viktor Yanukovych, negotiations of delegations took place, then the President of Russia met with the hierarchs of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate and presented them with state awards for their great contribution to the development of friendly relations between peoples and the strengthening of spiritual traditions. Putin also visited the Kiev Pechersk Lavra, where he visited the Assumption Cathedral. The head of the Russian state bowed to the Cross of St. Andrew the First-Called and laid flowers at the grave of Peter Stolypin.

        Talks of Putin and Yanukovych in a one-on-one format continued, as Ukrainian media testify, for hardly 15 minutes. As Vladimir Putin noted: ,, This is indeed our common big holiday, which reminds us of our spiritual unity, speaks of our common roots. It recalls that we did a lot in the previous centuries together and that together we achieved outstanding, without any exaggeration, results.
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. Apollo
            1 August 2013 10: 13
            17
            Quote: domokl
            Dear, you will be rude in the tram. We did not drink to the Brudershaft. So be so kind as not to poke.


            Good afternoon, Alexander! hi

            I allow myself to disagree with your message to the visitor with a nickname cosmos111. Why do you have such a nervous reaction to the visitor’s comment. In my opinion, he was not rude and did not poke, but emphasized politely among other things (but sharply, I admit it) you turned to you.


            Quote: domokl
            And regarding the referendum ... There will not be 80% believe me. Not in Russia, not in Ukraine.


            Where such confidence?! Why in Russia, for example, as a first step, not hold a referendum and not put the leaders of Ukraine before the fact.

            There are such concepts as cause and effect, it is necessary to analyze everything that led to such a difficult relationship between the two countries. Of course, I understand that relations leave much to be desired. The oligarchs do not want to unite more confidently, it’s no secret that they will have to say goodbye to their posts and positions in power structures.
            1. ATATA
              ATATA 1 August 2013 10: 34
              12
              Quote: Apollon
              I allow myself to disagree with your message to the visitor with the nickname cosmos111.Why do you have such a nervous reaction to the visitor’s comment. In my opinion, he was not rude and did not poke but emphasized politely among other things (but abruptly, I admit) you turned to you .

              By the way, I completely agree.
          2. sasha.28blaga
            sasha.28blaga 1 August 2013 11: 04
            +4
            In another article, I answered the question of who chooses, chooses capital, not the people.
          3. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 1 August 2013 12: 55
            +4
            Quote: domokl
            So be so kind as not to poke.

            And where are you?
            1. domokl
              domokl 1 August 2013 15: 40
              0
              Now hold a referendum in Russia, Ukraine and Belarus not 80%, the population spoke in favor of creating a single state.
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              And where are you?

              Especially for the visually impaired. Hello Sasha! Honestly, these conversations have already got me in favor of the wretched. You know my point of view, I never forget anything, but I can pretend that it is necessary.
          4. silver_roman
            silver_roman 1 August 2013 13: 29
            10
            disagree fundamentally. if we act exclusively (!) with respect in the modern world, we will be eaten and not notice. syshya respects Japan ??? I remember her tribute in Jeroshima and Nagasaka. in short, the point is that everyone pursues only their own interests and sometimes this is the only way.
            Ukraine’s accession to the EU: I’m even afraid to imagine it.
            As I wrote above, I am a citizen of the Russian Federation, I live in Kiev.
            it is, note.
            So: for example, when Latvia joined the EU, she was given about 5 A4 sheets of paper with a list of industries that should simply be closed. this list included companies economically important for Latvia. I had to refuse. and what is there now ??? I recently talked with young people in Latvia ... unemployment, everyone thumps in black, food is "rubber". I met the guys in the Crimea, in Sudak. they admired our food. it is food. and not kitchen. They said that McDonald's is the best in the world with us: everything is delicious, rich, etc.))
            In general, sometimes you should not look at Europe through pink glasses. Yes, it is developed and there is good, as in America, but for Americans and Europeans. Emigrants live differently there. no need to console yourself with illusions on this score!
      3. agbykov
        agbykov 1 August 2013 13: 37
        +5
        If a politician won the elections, this does not mean at all that he expresses the will of the people. Those who have money win the elections (this form of government is called plutocracy - from the word "plutoc" - wealth). You have no money and you will not be a deputy, do you?

        Plutocracy (Greek: πλοῦτος - wealth, κράτος - government) - a form of government when government decisions are determined not only by the opinion of the whole people, but by an influential class of rich people, while there is deep social inequality and low social mobility. Plutocracy is a special case oligarchies - a regime in which real power is vested in a small circle of people (for example, the nobility, the military, the party elite or relatives of the ruler).
    2. KazaK Bo
      KazaK Bo 1 August 2013 09: 42
      +9
      Quote: cosmos111
      The peoples of Russia and Ukraine for close integration

      They are especially "thirsty" for this in the West. Ukraine, somewhere in 8-9 regions .... Tyagnibokovskaya "Svoboda" for this has already formed and prepared its military units, as in their time the OUN and UPA ... they will not wait for integration ... Or do you not know what days of the "orange maidan" more than a thousand militants from the West. Ukrainians sat on the entrances around the camp on the square and guarded the "people's initiative."
      That is why Kuchma was afraid to disperse them by force, although military units had already begun to move for this ... they were even already on the march to the Maidan. A certain Mr. LUTSENKO, in those days a "field commander", and then under Yushchenko - the Minister of Internal Affairs ... under Yanukovych - just a prisoner ...
      Everything is much more complicated and not so simple!
      1. M. Peter
        M. Peter 5 August 2013 11: 13
        0
        And what could a tynebok militant do against a tank, for example, in the conditions of the then Maidan, to lie on a bouncy track under the tracks ???
  • domokl
    domokl 1 August 2013 08: 48
    +2
    I completely agree with the author. I have the same opinion. Both the EU and the CU do not want to, and cannot take on more Ukrainian problems, which means that they need to take a wait-and-see attitude and let Ukraine finally fall apart. And then, as in the saying, and the wolves are full, and the sheep are whole ...
    1. alexng
      alexng 1 August 2013 13: 16
      0
      Quote: domokl
      And then, as in the saying, both the wolves are fed and the sheep are whole ...


      ... and only the goats will be left with a bare ass bully
    2. silver_roman
      silver_roman 1 August 2013 13: 30
      0
      how is it fraternally !!! you know, it is precisely such judgments that make Ukrainians incline their point of view and preferences towards the EU!
      1. domokl
        domokl 1 August 2013 15: 36
        +5
        Quote: silver_roman
        how is it fraternally !!! you know, it is precisely such judgments that make Ukrainians incline their point of view and preferences towards the EU!

        It’s fraternal. Rights of the Romanovs, the Russians were tired of Ukrainian troubles. A couple of years ago, discussing the same issue, we would see a huge positive from the Russians. We believed that Ukraine is just like we are at a crossroads, but she will remain the sister of Russia. Now this faith is lost for many.
        And only brothers can talk about it openly. No one forces you to accept our point of view, but you’re tired of indulging the youngest in his whims. Adult people, independent, independent, so be responsible for your actions, for your decisions and your thoughts.
        1. 89501358976
          89501358976 1 August 2013 17: 36
          +3
          YOU KNOW I FEEL THAT PUTIN WITH EUROPE WILL SHARE UKRAINE! AND THE EASTER PART WILL LIVE SEPARATELY FROM THE WESTERN. TAKING FORWELL LEFT LION WE WILL NOT BE ABSOLUTELY RESPECTIVE. WE DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING REMAINING !! WITH RESPECT TO FORUMAN hi
      2. Tverichanka
        Tverichanka 1 August 2013 23: 17
        0
        Quote: silver_roman
        point of view and preferences towards the EU!

        In fact, it’s just that everyone will be Ukrainians brothers. Or maybe husbands or wives .... Do not know what’s in the trade today? Well, come on, maybe they will explain.
    3. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 1 August 2013 18: 43
      +3
      Quote: domokl
      , you need to take a wait and see attitude and let Ukraine finally fall apart.

      Not all judgments are unambiguous, but each is interesting in its own way!
      I propose to look at the problem from the perspective of a "projection of interests" of power centers in relation to Ukraine and the geopolitical realities of today. Dominant Power - USA. Other centers of influence: EU (Germany), China (APR — Japan), Russia. further Brazil and other regional leaders.
      For whom is Ukraine an apple of discord, an object of desire? In order.
      1. USA. Seek to dominate everywhere. But now the main aspirations are the Asia-Pacific region with the task of confronting the PRC and its growing ambitions, as the No. 2 economic power with high growth rates. The second task is to prevent Russia from being reborn as a new superpower. And here is Ukraine? And here is the 2 scenario:
      A) Objective: To prevent the union of the Russian Federation and the PRC as a real threat to its world leadership. Solution to the problem. Make Ukraine a bargaining chip to distract the Russian Federation from an alliance with the Celestial Empire. Nationalist forces tear Ukraine into 3 units: Crimea - Turkey (Caliphate), West - Poland, East - Russia. It’s like a fee for not interfering with the Russian Federation in a showdown with China.
      B) Objective: To prevent the re-establishment of the Slavic Union (RF, Belarus, Ukraine). The states cannot afford this, because then the dream of world domination and a golden billion will come to an end. Therefore, they will in every way oppose this process, inciting ethnic hatred between our peoples, pushing Ukraine into the EU as the lesser of evils.
      2. EU Expansion of the zone of economic influence, markets for their goods. Ukraine is a new market. They will ruin the economy and sell their products; they will receive cheap labor. Following will catch up and the military organization in the person of NATO.
      3. Russia Ukraine. We will try by economic means to tie the interests of partners to our country. Placement of orders, provide a market for the sale of products, preferential price for hydrocarbons. Support for pro-Russian forces, economic, political, military integration.
      Ukraine itself and its people in all cases will play a major role. But the aggravation of contradictions between factions and political forces can lead the country to a civil war or another color revolution.
      I would very much like to see the development of events under scenario No.3.
      1. Tverichanka
        Tverichanka 1 August 2013 23: 21
        0
        Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
        I would very much like to see the development of events under scenario No. 3.

        As Comrade Sukhov said, "It's unlikely" ....
  • serge-68-68
    serge-68-68 1 August 2013 08: 48
    +6
    There are really three choices before Ukraine, but their space is rapidly shrinking: Europe, independence, Russia. They have already missed independence. Now they will rush between two haystacks. They risk dying like that donkey.
  • Belogor
    Belogor 1 August 2013 09: 01
    +7
    And I remember at the turn of the 90s how many hopes Ukrainians had for independent prosperity, without the USSR (Russia). Type Ukraine feeds all, watered, etc. Now we will live separately richly! And here are the results of the 20-year-old independence both in the economy and in politics.
    1. ATATA
      ATATA 1 August 2013 09: 11
      +6
      Quote: Belogor
      And here are the results of the 20-year-old independence both in the economy and in politics.

      Yes, these are just flowers, berries are yet to come.
  • Yuriwhite
    Yuriwhite 1 August 2013 09: 13
    +6
    Which association? Do you recall where it started? Read.
    For more than 20 years, the "brothers" have become so distraught that only magical curative fasting for a long time will help, and that is hardly.
    1. ammunition
      ammunition 1 August 2013 09: 52
      +7
      Quote: YuriWhite
      Which association? Do you recall where it started? Read.


      And the numbers ( for production ) almost all are true. sad Is that for meat "bent" .. meat per capita, in 1989, in Ukraine produced. - 116 kg.
      --------
      SO BEGAN ANYWHERE.. and not only in Ukraine.

      In Moscow there was a main slogan - Stop feeding the outskirts!
      In the republics - Stop feeding Moscow!

      And such slogans were thrown in, not at all friends of the people.

      And it turned out in the end - as with the disabled person from whom the leg "separated". Became "independent" laughing
      Disabled person without a leg, somehow adapted. And the khan’s leg .. her dogs will devour her.
      ----------
      And on the other hand ... IF THE DISABLED BACK THE FOOT - HE WILL BE HEALTHY,
    2. Makarov
      Makarov 1 August 2013 10: 58
      0
      oh .... they are planning to make me starve already for medicinal purposes .... do not plan to hang up for medicinal purposes?
      1. ATATA
        ATATA 1 August 2013 11: 06
        +1
        Quote: Makarov
        oh .... they are planning to make me starve already for medicinal purposes .... do not plan to hang up for medicinal purposes?

        Yes, you yourself in spite of Russia starve to starvation, and then blame it on those damned to her.
        1. Makarov
          Makarov 1 August 2013 12: 20
          0
          since we are all so bad here - why do you want to join ... why such a headache?
          1. ammunition
            ammunition 1 August 2013 13: 12
            +2
            Quote: Makarov
            since we are all so bad here


            No no. You are good. But faint laughing

            1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Tverichanka
            Tverichanka 1 August 2013 23: 24
            +2
            Quote: Makarov
            why do you want to connect.

            Exclusively because of the foresight of your future. Well, if you yourself want to try the flag in your hands, how warm it is ....
      2. ammunition
        ammunition 1 August 2013 11: 50
        10
        I do not quite understand your comment. Respected Makarov. wassat

        And on the other hand -
        In Ukraine, production:

        1989 g. ..- .. ....... ... ............ 2012 g.

        meat - 4,9 million tons ..- .. meat - 2,26 million tons
        Steel - 65 million tons ..- .. Steel - 16 million tons
        ................
        And so on almost everything. Fall in 3-5 times.
        Unless grains are almost the same harvested.
        These are the fruits of "independence" ..
        Yes, and in Russia, too ... not very smart business.
        --------------
        By the way - a curious count. If the USSR had been operating since the 1985 year, as usual. Without any restructuring there. Its GDP would now reach 15-trillions of dollars. That is, as in the United States. With one difference. That would be real GDP. laughing
        1. Makarov
          Makarov 1 August 2013 12: 23
          +2
          Well, so I wrote about the grain .... but in general for the rest I agree sadly, but the fact
      3. cherkas.oe
        cherkas.oe 1 August 2013 15: 39
        +3
        Quote: Makarov
        oh .... they are planning to make me starve already for medicinal purposes .... do not plan to hang up for medicinal purposes?

        DO NOT be a fool, Zelik, you all understand perfectly well that no one is going to make you starve, just from now on, at someone else’s expense, no one will grumble, neither the CU nor the EU, but you will feel a gentle grin on the EU immediately, and we won’t bother you cuddle, but also into the courtyard to yourself with your gadgets and other junk is not allowed. Then you’ll go hungry and freeze yourself. Only I don’t understand your personal concern in this matter, will you probably cheat on yourself? yes
    3. sasha.28blaga
      sasha.28blaga 1 August 2013 11: 07
      0
      Is there a translation?
  • Black
    Black 1 August 2013 09: 31
    11
    Quote: cosmos111
    The peoples of Russia and Ukraine for close integration.

    The peoples are not a homogeneous mass.
    A month ago I was in the Square. And he was rather surprised when in Kharkov, which he considered a "pro-Russian" city, he faced very different opinions about integration with Russia.
    The main reason, in my opinion, is not at all "It's not a secret that whole hordes of journalists, political scientists and other experts who have been raised on Western grants and, accordingly, biased, are working in the country.", there’s nothing to spit on the mirror .... The Kremlin is also to blame for a lot. They perfectly see the mess that was going on with us, and it’s happening. For a decade, the Kremlin did not need its own people, which is there, before compatriots.
    1. Gato
      Gato 1 August 2013 12: 11
      0
      Quote: Chen
      The Kremlin is largely to blame. They perfectly see the mess that was going on with us, and it’s happening. For a decade, the Kremlin did not need its own people, which is there, before compatriots.

      100500
    2. Uralean
      Uralean 1 August 2013 12: 25
      +9
      Not true! Just arrived from Ukraine, from relatives. Most are for reunification with Russia (South, EAST, Center .. Against those who have factories, large enterprises, banks, and other assets .. Because of the fear that Russian structures will be able to crush them for themselves. Hence the whole cheese. Boron
      1. Belogor
        Belogor 1 August 2013 12: 38
        +6
        I agree to all 100. This is the main reason - the oligarchic structures are against, and that means a lot
        1. Egoza
          Egoza 2 August 2013 05: 12
          +2
          Quote: Belogor
          oligarchic structures are against, and that means a lot

          Add also the fact that many in western Ukraine go to the EU to earn money and at the same time are registered as unemployed in Ukraine, thus receiving unemployment benefits and subsidies from the center for the development of the region. And unification with the Russian Federation is not at all profitable for them. At the same time, they somehow forgot about the Rusyns, who are already SO tired of "hefty svidomye" that they are ready even now to separate and join the Russian Federation. And if fragmentation begins, then the Hungarians living in that region will also not sit idly by, they will immediately reunite with their homeland, which, by the way, is trying to do a lot for them, although she herself is not delighted with joining the EU.
          If they sign an association with the EU, it will be a complete collapse of Ukraine. There are already so many demands that you can die rather than fulfill. however, our "elite" does not care. The people will die, and the "top" has already prepared a spare airfield in the form of bills and property over the hill
          1. zmey_gadukin
            zmey_gadukin 2 August 2013 16: 09
            +1
            Ukraine needs federation and budget redistribution.
            Ukraine needs to revise its budgeting policy. those. the budget must be formed "from the bottom", and not from Kiev.
            Ukraine needs to reconsider its attitude to s / s. Stimulate medium and small producers. Big and so full ...
            The list is endless. And the EU ... TS ... it's lyrics. They won’t take it in the EU;
    3. cherkas.oe
      cherkas.oe 1 August 2013 18: 15
      +4
      Quote: Chen
      A month ago I was in the Square. And he was rather surprised when in Kharkov, which he considered a "pro-Russian" city

      No need to trend, I have in Ukraine six cousins ​​and their children and grandchildren live; in Kiev, Dnepropetrovsk, Dneprodzerzhinsk, Cherkasy, Semferopol, Kirovograd and everywhere the majority are for reuniting with Russia, despite the fact that the propaganda, anti-Russian, is really massive, the wife’s friend, married to a Donetsk lad and living in Ukraine, has more than 30 -years. So gentlemen do not need to misinform.
  • My address
    My address 1 August 2013 09: 35
    +3
    Putin is doing everything honestly with respect to Ukraine, even too honestly.

    Ukraine almost did not pay for gas in 90-x. Because of this, you had to buy cheap metal from her, ruining your metallurgy and related industries. And what to do if the difference in price is up to 15%, and the cat cried for money? Now market prices.

    Sadly, Ukrainians are living much worse than Belarusians. Data on the Internet. For example, the human development index. And in the Soviet Union there were two donors for the internal and external markets - the RSFSR and the Ukrainian SSR.
    1. domokl
      domokl 1 August 2013 09: 46
      +1
      Quote: My address
      Putin is doing everything honestly with respect to Ukraine, even too honestly.

      Putin, just like most of us, probably hoped that Ukrainians would start to think. And the situation began to look more and more like a scammer’s divorce. You want us to pay for you, but in reality, it’s a piss.
      The creation of the CU, and, consequently, the opinion of Kazakhstan and Belarus, put the GDP before a choice, either with those who are already friend and ally, kindly with those who openly go to the West ..
    2. seller trucks
      seller trucks 1 August 2013 10: 53
      +6
      Quote: My address
      Ukraine almost did not pay for gas in 90's.


      I will say more, many wealthy and influential people in Ukraine made their fortunes on the Russian gas trade i.e. Ukraine has long been a supplier of gas to Europe, after Ukraine was squeezed out, it became a gas transit country, earning up to 3.5 lard a year. in truth Ukraine sawed off the branch on which she sat
    3. azkolt
      azkolt 1 August 2013 17: 53
      +1
      There were three donors in the USSR: the RSFSR, the BSSR and the KazSSr. Ukraine was not listed as such.
      1. cherkas.oe
        cherkas.oe 1 August 2013 18: 20
        0
        Quote: azkolt
        Ukraine was not listed as such.

        Urgently to school, only to the Soviet one. fool
        1. azkolt
          azkolt 1 August 2013 19: 07
          +1
          Urgently to the Gomkomstat, but firstly, and secondly, before putting such emoticons would be interested in statistics
  • Black
    Black 1 August 2013 09: 38
    +1

    ... to wish for the collapse of a country that we consider fraternal is how? How are we then different from the same west?
    On the other hand ... peoples are striving for each other ... notice- nations that do not decide and have nothing ... corporations, oligarchs, lovers, who the hell are all, who decide, but not nations.
    And they will trade, sell and buy, and before the "brotherhood" to them, as to Gaidaevsky Fed- up, until the bush.
    1. Avenger711
      Avenger711 1 August 2013 13: 34
      0
      This is not a fraternal country, but a territory occupied by independent scum.
  • shark
    shark 1 August 2013 09: 54
    +2
    Ukraine will never fall apart. The author is wrong in this. She will obediently go where they show her more fat kalach. At the moment, this is the EU. There the Ukrainian state will go first. Besides, it’s not clear who will become the president of Ukraine after Yanukovych .I personally have fears that it will be someone from the liberal pro-Western layer. It’s painfully deep that infection has taken root in Ukraine. Yes and Yanukovych did not live up to anyone’s expectations. The chances of being re-elected from him are negligible. All of this unambiguously moves Ukraine into the European Union. Another the fact is that, having come to an economic collapse within the EU, and this is not inevitable, Ukraine will begin to drift towards Russia. And here a completely different game will go. And if the party is played correctly, this will lead to deep integration of Ukraine with Russia.
    1. ATATA
      ATATA 1 August 2013 10: 39
      +3
      Quote: shark
      .It is painfully deep this infection has taken root in Ukraine

      I beg you not to distort the Russian language !!!
      Why don't you write Russia instead of Russia?
      You can’t go to the outskirts, you can only go to the outskirts.
      In and on is not related to independence.
      Under the USSR, there was no independent Belarus, but even then we went to Belarus, just like now we go to Ukraine.
      1. shark
        shark 1 August 2013 11: 29
        0
        / If objections only to this is accepted.
        1. ATATA
          ATATA 1 August 2013 11: 39
          0
          Quote: shark
          / If objections only to this is accepted.

          Well, not only, but mostly.
    2. domokl
      domokl 2 August 2013 04: 51
      0
      Quote: shark
      it is not clear who will become president of Ukraine

      Given the vector of development of Ukraine, the most likely president of Ukraine will be .... Klitschko. I understand that koment will cause a lot of minuses, but there is no figure on the modern political Olympus of Ukraine that would suit everyone, including the people.
      The rest of the politicians are so mired in dirt that they have strong opposition from one side or the other. And Klitschko is still no politician, which means they (as Westerners and Easterners will hope) can be manipulated
    3. Egoza
      Egoza 2 August 2013 05: 18
      0
      Quote: shark
      Yes, and Yanukovych did not live up to anyone's expectations. The chances of being re-elected from him are negligible

      He knows it, as do the oligarchs behind him. That is why Svoboda received so many "subsidies". The expectation is that Yanukovych and Tyagnibok will enter the second round of elections, and the people will not vote for an outspoken pro-fascist.
  • Valery Neonov
    Valery Neonov 1 August 2013 09: 58
    13
    ... but will the EU and Russia do the same with Kiev in the same way as the Moscow tsar and the king of the Commonwealth — with a corrupt hetman in 1667? ehhhhh, decide ...
  • Black
    Black 1 August 2013 10: 08
    0
    Quote: shark
    Ukraine will never fall apart. The author is wrong in this.

    Not only wrong. This is a great treat!
    The collapse of the country is not a trifle on the asphalt, it is blood, fate, civil war !!!!
    Our power holders should think about such an instrument, which amers call "soft power".
    Gazprom and I would have to narrow down, and give gas to the fraternal people, and with Ukrainian coal, and with lard, and with chocolate, you can solve it smartly like that.
    Maybe people will reach us ....
    1. alexng
      alexng 1 August 2013 13: 31
      +2
      This was already and the result was negative. Do you suggest stepping on the same glab?
    2. Egoza
      Egoza 2 August 2013 05: 24
      0
      Quote: Chen
      and give gas to the fraternal people,

      If it were to the fraternal people, then yes, but this is how it works for the oligarchs. in Ukraine, in principle, there is enough of its own gas for the needs of the population; mined for a long time and on the spot. And for production we need Russian gas. So, cheap gas is sold over the hill, and expensive gas is allowed to the population, and so many more additives are taken in that it does not look like gas at all. Accordingly, the payment for gas is high, and all "because it is Russia that sells such expensive gas." this is how they restore people against Russia. even if the Russian Federation now reduces the cost of gas, the people will not feel it, but the oligarchs will rub their hands.
    3. cherkas.oe
      cherkas.oe 2 August 2013 15: 07
      0
      Quote: Chen
      Maybe people will reach us ....

      PEOPLE are already drawn out, and those who rule, pull in their own pockets everything that you would not give them; gas, oil, etc., so we have already passed "softly" if your memory is in order.
  • Black
    Black 1 August 2013 10: 08
    0
    Quote: shark
    Ukraine will never fall apart. The author is wrong in this.

    Not only wrong. This is a great treat!
    The collapse of the country is not a trifle on the asphalt, it is blood, fate, civil war !!!!
    Our power holders should think about such an instrument, which amers call "soft power".
    Gazprom and I would have to narrow down, and give gas to the fraternal people, and with Ukrainian coal, and with lard, and with chocolate, you can solve it smartly like that.
    Maybe people will reach us ....
    1. lav566
      lav566 1 August 2013 11: 37
      0
      Yesterday I went to the site http://censor.net.ua/
      and in the section "Union with Russia" I read that there are these "people"
      on forums they write about Russia. To be with such in one union
      I got sick.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 1 August 2013 13: 09
        +6
        Quote: lav566
        Yesterday I went to the site http://censor.net.ua/

        Well, during the period of the arrival of the Patriarch and Putin, all Ukrainian trolls, whose posts you saw, became more active.
        1. zmey_gadukin
          zmey_gadukin 2 August 2013 16: 13
          0
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          all Ukrainian trolls stepped up

          what only Oleg leusenko stands with his insanities
          I even added in LJ, that would read and raise my mood
  • Makarov
    Makarov 1 August 2013 10: 20
    0
    "... potatoes, sugar and lard are brought to Kiev from abroad" .... guys, at least you don't believe everything they write ... Ukraine's agro-industrial complex is very powerful - a lot of money is spinning here, the grain harvest this year a record ... here are poisoned raspberries from Holland they are taking it yes ...
    1. atalef
      atalef 1 August 2013 13: 23
      -3
      Quote: Makarov
      You at least do not believe everything in a row that they write

      generally a strange situation, about what is happening in Ukraine, Russians are arguing with Russians, convincing each other about something, completely forgetting that there are not a lot of Ukrainians living there and know the situation from the inside. At the same time, they are specifically ruined and convinced that they (Ukrainians) do not understand anything and their hut (in fact) from the edge.
      develop your eyes, throughout the Ukrainian press and social. According to polls, 26% of Ukrainians support joining the CU, 60% in the EU --- --- whether anyone likes it or not.
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 1 August 2013 22: 36
        +1
        Quote: atalef
        throughout the Ukrainian press and social. polls ...
        ... you will not find a WORD of truth, a solid order. The results of the polls across all the media are shackling like a hose, but only at the same time NOBODY of my friends (and I have VERY many of them) have not been questioned by anyone. Not one of the questions voiced above ... request And of those who were leafing through these newspapers in transport in my presence, the results of the polls only raise obscenities and similar questions: "And who did these ... ask if they broadcast on behalf of everyone?"
      2. Egoza
        Egoza 2 August 2013 05: 26
        +1
        Quote: atalef
        throughout the Ukrainian press and social. polls, 26% of Ukrainians support joining the CU, 60% in the EU -

        Well, why don't they want to hold a referendum on this issue if they are sure that the majority is in favor?
  • alone
    alone 1 August 2013 10: 23
    +8
    every time I read such articles, I remain in my opinion. those who destroyed the USSR, it was necessary to hang upside down on lampposts as they hung Mussolini, so it was more convenient to spit in their faces)
    1. ATATA
      ATATA 1 August 2013 10: 41
      +2
      Quote: lonely
      every time I read such articles, I remain in my opinion. those who destroyed the USSR, it was necessary to hang upside down on lampposts as they hung Mussolini, so it was more convenient to spit in their faces)

      And now it’s not too late, not everyone has rested.
      1. alone
        alone 1 August 2013 12: 12
        0
        Well, let's say we catch this jackal and hang? the Soviet Union does not return ((
  • Vlad_Mir
    Vlad_Mir 1 August 2013 10: 38
    +8
    In the articles of Ukrainian authors, Ukraine is always a victim. Yes, the people have suffered a lot. But! In 1992, this state had the best starting conditions. There was absolutely everything: the army and the navy, factories and factories, education, medicine ... The USSR made a huge gift to the Ukrainian people, collecting separate territories "in a heap", not to mention the Crimea. And how does it all end? Ukraine is essentially a state bankrupt. The culprit has been found in all that is happening - it is Russia. Naturally, integrating with such a bad neighbor is impossible by definition!
  • sop.ov
    sop.ov 1 August 2013 10: 41
    +1
    Today it is difficult for a guarantor to decide who to be with for several reasons. Yanukovych has always positioned himself as a supporter of close relations with Russia, and so everything would have continued. But then take Yulia and sign gas contracts that are unprofitable for Ukraine. The result Julia is behind bars "a political heroine", and Russia is bad - she cheated Ukraine in the face of a naive kind woman. In order to neutralize political losses now it is necessary from time to time to flirt with the opposition and its electorate through European integration. Now everyone is waiting for how Europe will behave - whether the conclusion of a kind woman will become a precursor stone for signing agreements with Ukraine. If it does, then the choice will be small - only integration with Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan. If it does not, the situation will become more complicated, it will be necessary to further break the fifth point between Europe and the Customs Union. Who will be more accommodating to that chair and Yanukovych and change seats.
  • nokki
    nokki 1 August 2013 10: 43
    +4
    Quote: xetai9977
    It seems that the month of Ukraine is being announced on the site.


    Ukraine, to use chess terminology, is a "critical field" in the global endgame being played in the post-Soviet space. The one who takes it first will eventually (with the correct further play) win this grueling game.

    A mistake in this case is fraught with disaster for Russia. Let's not flatter ourselves and rely on the sanity of Germany. This is a predator. And a terrible predator. In this case, all information, economic, intelligence and military resources of Russia should be used to the maximum in order to resolve the Ukrainian issue once and for all. You can’t sleep peacefully with a ticking "hell machine" under your pillow!

    So far, Russia is only demonstrating half-measures (like Onishchenko) to tie Ukraine to Eurasian integration. Here, I think, tough, and maybe even brutal pressure on the Ukrainian political and economic elite is needed. As my aunt Ulya used to say from Melitopol: "If I’m a boy with a forelock, I’m curling my eyes, then my father can do it bald!" That is: "If the guy's forelock closes his eyes too much, then the father can shave his head!"
  • pensioner
    pensioner 1 August 2013 11: 10
    +3
    Quote: Belogor
    And I remember at the turn of the 90s how many hopes Ukrainians had for independent prosperity, without the USSR (Russia). Type Ukraine feeds all, watered, etc. Now we will live separately richly!

    I remember those times very well! And at first it seemed that hopes were justified. At least in UKRAINE In 92-93, industry did not collapse overnight. Specifically, IGOK and SevGOK helped me survive ... I personally envied the hahlams: so much was left! And then it began ...
  • 1961NNN
    1961NNN 1 August 2013 11: 33
    +2
    The entry of Ukraine into the CU is the only right choice, both for the country and for the people. She is not needed in the EU, there are enough of her problems - these are political flirting with Yanukovych. The situation in Ukraine itself is critical - the people are on the verge of an explosion ...
    1. ATATA
      ATATA 1 August 2013 11: 41
      0
      Quote: 1961NNN
      The situation in Ukraine itself is critical - the people are on the verge of an explosion ...

      Oh, hurry.
  • chenia
    chenia 1 August 2013 12: 05
    +2
    The paradoxical situation is that in the West. Ukraine is losing the influence of nationalists (this part of Ukraine has already got drunk on promises of first national communists, then national democrats, national liberals and now Nazis in general), but the central and eastern regions are beginning to show interest in nationalism. This is determined by the fact that they consider "freedom" as a force capable of resisting (for radicalism) the thieves' limitlessness of oligarchs and officials.
  • Uralean
    Uralean 1 August 2013 12: 22
    +6
    Quote: Chen
    Quote: cosmos111
    The peoples of Russia and Ukraine for close integration.

    The peoples are not a homogeneous mass.
    A month ago I was in the Square. And he was rather surprised when in Kharkov, which he considered a "pro-Russian" city, he faced very different opinions about integration with Russia.
    The main reason, in my opinion, is not at all "It's not a secret that whole hordes of journalists, political scientists and other experts who have been raised on Western grants and, accordingly, biased, are working in the country.", there’s nothing to spit on the mirror .... The Kremlin is also to blame for a lot. They perfectly see the mess that was going on with us, and it’s happening. For a decade, the Kremlin did not need its own people, which is there, before compatriots.

    Not true. My brother and nephews and cousins, who were abandoned there during the Soviet Union, live in Ukraine, like many thousands of Russians (more than 20 million) .. Often I go there, they come to visit me, in general we communicate closely. Recently (two weeks ago), he returned from Ukraine, was a guest .. In the Kherson, Nikolaev Kiev region. I spoke with many Ukrainians closely, in close circles .. And they have great interest in Russia. And there is also a desire to reunite with Russia, so that we could travel freely here and here, so that our goods go without cardon and freely (without ripping off at posts, at least Russian. At least Ukrainian). So that officials, both Russian and Ukrainian (Police, traffic police, traffic police, emigration services), do not tear three skins from ordinary citizens of both countries. I tried it on myself. There DAI. Near the crossing, NOVOAZOVSK stops all cars with Russian numbers, and frankly demand bribes, threatening to pick up the rights (and they find the article right there), from me twice there and back .. My brother, after crossing the port of Caucasus, in the Temryuk area , GAI lured 15 thousand Russian rubles, allegedly for fines, threatening to take away the rights, and put the transport on a joke ... And there are thousands of them (I go and talk with drivers more than once) ... In general, the Ukrainian people, East, South, and Center of Ukraine , for reunification with Russia (NOT ACCOUNTING, people with factories, huge material wealth, and privileges are TE against .. For they are afraid of the same Russian structures that can deprive them) ... That is the main enemy of unity ..
    1. Makarov
      Makarov 1 August 2013 12: 28
      0
      and there is...
  • Alexanderlaskov
    Alexanderlaskov 1 August 2013 12: 32
    +2
    No one really shared. Russians often visit relatives from Ukraine, they are us. In consciousness, we are another country. Amer divided us according to the principle of divide and conquer. There is hope for reunification, but for this we need to reduce the influence of Amer in Ukraine. It is remembered - one king taught his sons: several arrows assembled together are more difficult to break. It is also more difficult to subjugate one large country.
  • Uralean
    Uralean 1 August 2013 12: 32
    +2
    Quote: lonely
    Well, let's say we catch this jackal and hang? the Soviet Union does not return ((

    Why? If you wish, everything is possible, albeit under a different name .. You can come up with together ..
    1. maximus235
      maximus235 1 August 2013 13: 09
      +3
      USSR v2.0?
      In general, the political "elite" of Ukraine is so carried away by its geopolitical games that it practically ignores internal problems, and there are many of them in the country.
      The EU also understands perfectly well that one more, sorry, a beggar in their family is not needed, therefore the process of "inration" is being delayed as much as they can.
    2. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 1 August 2013 13: 11
      +4
      Quote: Ural
      .. You can come up with together ..

      The Russian Empire will suit you wink
      1. Conepatus
        Conepatus 1 August 2013 19: 11
        0
        And who is the Emperor?
        Putin? So he has no heirs.
        Medvedev? So he's an alcoholic.
        There are no candidates for the position. There are more likely candidates, only suitable ones. request
        1. Egoza
          Egoza 2 August 2013 05: 32
          +2
          Quote: Conepatus
          There are no candidates for the position. There are more likely candidates, only suitable ones.

          LUKASHENKO !!!!! laughing
        2. densh
          densh 2 August 2013 22: 11
          0
          read the cycle of Yan Valetov, there Putin
  • Suhov
    Suhov 1 August 2013 13: 09
    +1
    The mother had three daughters.
    All - students, Komsomol members, athletes, and finally, just beauties.
    But one of them was - especially gifted и
    therefore, she always and had everything her own, special, opinion
    as well as your own, different (from others) path ...
    In short:
    "Woe from Wit" is about her.
    And also:
    "In the family not without ..." - also about her.
    recourse
    1. pensioner
      pensioner 1 August 2013 17: 59
      0
      Hi Sukhov !! YOU ARE ALWAYS BRIEF, BUT TODAY IS NOT VERY RIGHT ..."Woe from Wit" is about her. It’s not at all from this grief ... Quite the contrary ... The Ukrainian people wanted them to be ruled by not Chatsky at all ...
  • chenia
    chenia 1 August 2013 13: 13
    +4
    Quote: Ural

    Why? If you wish, everything is possible, albeit under a different name .. It is possible to come up together.


    Yes, what is there to invent-GREAT RUSSIA. The unification of Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan (the same x \ o \ hly, only squinted) and in the future Armenia and Georgia.

    The capital is KIEV (mother of Russian cities). Then this union will be in the corresponding weight category - SUPERPOWER.

    But a unifying idea (and primarily a social one) is needed. Capitalist psychology causes distrust, fear and fear that more powerful partners will eat you up - hence the rejection.
  • Taurus
    Taurus 1 August 2013 13: 41
    +3
    Historical realities, of course, are based on all sorts of foundations (Kes kes), but they cannot be based on a handful of Ukrainian hollowers, just say it’s not a foundation.
  • So_o_tozh
    So_o_tozh 1 August 2013 13: 43
    +2
    Everyone says Ukraine then Ukraine, who is Ukraine? The people are one thing, the people are mostly for an alliance with Russia, power is different, the oligarchs in power are not interested in an alliance with Russia, they have their own economic interests separate from the Russian oligarchs, and who wants to share power or lose profit. No matter how Russia in the person of Onishchenko tries to strangle Ukrainian exports, this is reflected specifically in people: production is falling, there are no salaries, and so on ... The media naturally portrays this as a trade war, where Ukraine will certainly lose, hence the conclusion - an ordinary Ukrainian looks at Russia and says: nifigas strangle us - it’s cheese, sugar, glass, sweets, metal, it’s not that way, direct sabotage against Russia is continuous ... Hence the opinion of people, at least my friends, will die but Russia will not give up, as we wouldn’t feel bad, in the worst case, we’ll try to leave our Honduras.
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 2 August 2013 05: 45
      +1
      Quote: So_o_tozh
      an ordinary Ukrainian looks at the Russian Federation and says: nifigas strangle us - it’s cheese, sugar, glass, sweets, metal, it’s not like that, direct sabotage against Russia is continuous ..

      Well, there’s no need to do so ... With Cheese - everything was true, and the quality of the cheese - increased, this people note and rejoice that at least the Russian Federation pressed with these "chemicals". With sweets and chocolate - the same picture. There is already confirmation that "indeed, something was overdone". True, at first they were afraid that in Ukraine, because of this, the price of sweets would increase. (Well, yes, how is it that Petty Poroshenko lost his profit !!!) However, now they are still trying to settle the issue with the Russian Federation, because the Ukrainians do not have so much money to eat candy every day. laughing
  • Mhpv
    Mhpv 1 August 2013 13: 53
    +4
    Bachil eyes who choose?
    1. shpuntik
      shpuntik 1 August 2013 16: 14
      0
      Major General
      MCHPV (1) SU Today, 13:53
      Bachil eyes who choose?

      To command the collective farm, nothing more laughing .
      1. pensioner
        pensioner 1 August 2013 18: 01
        +5
        Quote: shpuntik
        To command the collective farm

        Holy, holy, holy! So the famines begin ...
  • lav566
    lav566 1 August 2013 14: 00
    +4
    GDP, of course, was offended by Poroshenko, the main lobbyist
    Ukraine’s entry into the EU, and gave the command to deal with it
    by concepts. Why is this kid who does not respect us, gathers
    cabbage in our territory? Well done, GDP! Only in the WTO why
    was to enter? Without the WTO, it would be a good club to teach Kazlov.
  • Rosomaha67
    Rosomaha67 1 August 2013 14: 04
    +5
    ..... I liked the article, I do not agree with the author in everything, but historical analogies are given very accurately and in the case. I, in general, also for the integration of Ukraine with Russia (and my relatives live there). But by and large, in addition to family and historical ties, we-Russia win in any case.
    Ukraine will follow the path of European integration and the flag in its hands, its "European-loving" residents will master the labor market of Western Europe, they will fight for a workplace with migrant workers from Turkey and Tunisia, finally they will hear the forgotten, but see so much desired "Russisch Schweine" from their German "friends" (the funniest thing is that for a German, even an outrageous Russon-hater from the West is still Russisch Schweine, another reason to hate those damned to her). The industry of Ukraine will be destroyed, now it is mostly focused on export to Russia and the CIS, but in the EU, after all, you will have to adhere to safety and environmental standards, goodbye heavy metallurgy, goodbye blast furnace production, etc. True, my beloved plant will have to look for new suppliers of thin-walled small-diameter pipes, but we will support a domestic manufacturer from Cherepovets (now it is cheaper to buy in Ukraine). First of all, the military-industrial complex of Ukraine will bend. And the respected author of Kars, a connoisseur of tanks and armored personnel carriers, whose reasoned remarks I like to read on this site will no longer write about the successes of the military-industrial complex of Ukraine, and the formidable tank "Oplot" will have to be bought for a museum in Kubinka, otherwise it may not be enough due to the small number of samples released. The great thing is NATO standards, I just adore them, because they force Ukraine to abandon all its developments, stop the production of already developed weapons that do not fall under the standards, and buy "new" systems (as a rule, they have already served in the troops of NATO countries for more than one year , but tinted), well, so that it is better to fight shoulder to shoulder with NATO comrades. So in the event of such a denouement, we will lose another competitor in the arms sales markets. In addition, what if talented Ukrainian engineers want to continue their developments in Russia, we will accept them with open arms. Well, I will not talk about agriculture, they have already said above, potatoes from Portugal are already loaded into the cars ...
    ..... the fact that imported lard is a genocide of the Ukrainian people - I absolutely agree, it’s impossible not to mock so humanly ..... in general, Russia acquires something in this case.
    2. In the case of integration, we are also in pluses, but Ukraine retains its military-industrial complex, but ours gets a strong competitor in the domestic market, which will make our industrial "generals" move, or the brainy (don't be offended, this is not racism) will grab orders from our own MO and then hard workers will ask their bosses why we will eat for the next 5 years. Well, I will not write about the interconnection of industry either, it still exists (I gave the example of my plant) and with integration it will only increase, which will positively affect the development of the economies of both states. agriculture - here it is more difficult for Ukrainians to fear the Russian capital inflow, and in our Krasnoyarsk Territory, for 5 years already, grain harvests per hectare are 3-4 times more than in Soviet times - and the total volume is larger, and this is despite the difficult situation in the Russian countryside, well, everyone drinks, everyone is lazy, I'm just wondering where we get our own bread from (probably his kind Ukrainian brothers deliver to us free of charge at night). In general, and in this case, Russia will only be plus, the truth is much fatter than in the first scenario.
    As a result, it’s both good and not so bad, the Ukrainians themselves are the ones to guess. Guess the guys, GUESS. But for some reason, it seems to me that until absolutely everything falls apart they will not guess .......
    1. azkolt
      azkolt 1 August 2013 18: 47
      +2
      The plane in which the Frenchman, American and crest flew
      crashed. Well, naturally, they hit the island
      where only savages lived. They certainly caught them and
      said: we will take you to the nearest civilization if
      You will meet one of three conditions:
      a- pay two thousand bucks;
      b- be remembered by the whole tribe;
      c- eat a bag of salt.
      Well, American: "Oil Wright", gave two thousand bucks. released
      French: "Well, I'm from France, accustomed to everything, have" got it, let it go.
      Turn came to a
      He says: "Mabut (probably) will be strong."
      He ate, ate, half of the bag remained, he said: "no, mabut e # $ those!".
      Gender of the tribe fucked him, he says: "no, mabut I will be just"
      strong. "I ate another quarter of the bag and said:" no, mabut e% $ those! "
      Another quarter of the tribe fucked him, he could not stand: "no, lads,
      Mabut here's $ 2000, take me home "
  • Yuri Y.
    Yuri Y. 1 August 2013 14: 45
    +3
    Quote: Alexanderlaskov
    No one really shared. Russians often visit relatives from Ukraine, they are us. In consciousness, we are another country. Amer divided us according to the principle of divide and conquer. There is hope for reunification, but for this we need to reduce the influence of Amer in Ukraine. It is remembered - one king taught his sons: several arrows assembled together are more difficult to break. It is also more difficult to subjugate one large country.

    I agree completely. In Soviet times, there was of course a conversation like "we are from Pskop and we are from the Far East." When I served in our unit, half of the platoon were from Ukraine and the other from Siberia. Everyone chatted, after lights out, like: yes, we feed you, and we, yes, you have gasoline for one Zaporozhets, we will sell as much oil as you want, we will buy (grain). It was not out of spite, but rather because of the boy's self-affirmation. Everything came together, sad. If we break away from each other we will lose together. Now I will not say who is more, the meaning does not change.
  • densh
    densh 1 August 2013 16: 07
    +3
    Old joke about our presidents:
    they all, like the sun, rise in the east and set in the west
  • lav566
    lav566 1 August 2013 16: 15
    +3
    What awaits Ukraine in the future? After a couple of years leftovers
    Ukrainian industry and the military-industrial complex will be flushed into the toilet.
    Yanukovych will fly there too. EU will deliver more ideologically
    a close and predictable comrade: Yulka, as she is called
    in Ukrainian forums, Yatsynyuk or Boxer.
    Sweets are being eliminated. EU sells badly.
    However, they will leave the production of pipes-a small cozy Europe
    such environmental muck is not needed.
    The production of fat and sugar will be left. To eliminate this would be
    complete rudeness. And that's all! And this despite the fact that Ukraine will be located
    not in the EU, but in the EU dressing room. Even if they accept, it will not change anything.
    The people will completely dump in Europe to wash the toilet in McDonald's.
    For these positions, they say, is already a big competition of applicants
    from among Romanians, Bulgarians, Lithuanians, etc.
    These are my GUESSES.
    1. densh
      densh 1 August 2013 16: 26
      +1
      And the fat we have is Brazilian
      1. Gecko
        Gecko 1 August 2013 22: 07
        0
        And we basically have our own Russian
  • shpuntik
    shpuntik 1 August 2013 16: 22
    +1
    Conclusions in the article in the right direction +. But I want to focus on the status of the Russian language, which Janek has downgraded.
    That's why I love Ukrainian songs, and from TV advertising in Ukrainian, hunting is laughing? Does anyone know this? In my opinion, there is some kind of advantage in the Russian language in the modern world. On the other hand -
    he unites. Therefore, the modern Russian language, no matter how littered with a foreign language, cannot be removed from Ukraine.
    If it happens, as "Yanek" does, then later (one, two generations - 50 years) they will start playing off our brothers, artificially divided.
    1. sincman
      sincman 1 August 2013 16: 53
      +4
      Quote: shpuntik
      If so, then (one, two generations - 50 years) will begin to pit our brothers, artificially separated.

      This tradition of etching has existed for a long time ... Once upon a time, the current Russophobic Ukrainian Galicia was the Principality of Galicia - Chervona Rus. And there lived the same as we Orthodox Slavs. However, the wrong course chosen by the Galician prince did his dirty deed ... This moment is very well disclosed in the following film:

      History is repeated by those who have not learned its lessons ...
      1. shpuntik
        shpuntik 2 August 2013 00: 28
        +3
        Yes, these popes are no longer Christians. The Templars are generally Satanists. For many reasons, this is not about that; indirect evidence is documentary evidence of pederasty among cardinals (more than 70 people) who accept celibacy in the world, which is prohibited in Orthodoxy.
        And the situation in western Ukraine is not indifferent to me, since my brother lives in Lutsk. He and Russian wife. And this is Catholicism, as an infection corrodes society. Why? Many do not betray the importance of religion, but among Catholics the sacrament of communion is different (in particular), and in the end people become different. We see this from the facts. Took destroyed the grave of the first printer Fedorov, why? And many other things like that.
        Therefore, such hatred among the Poles, the Balts to the Russians. They are kind of evil, unkind ...
  • lav566
    lav566 1 August 2013 16: 42
    +2
    After all, what essentially does Russia offer?
    Create your own technological development zone. On the ruins of the former USSR.
    I understand that Putin is nervous. The more such a zone, the better for the economy.
    Those who will soon go to Europe to wash the toilets could become engineers,
    highly skilled workers. The meaning is simple: a person will
    good work, then life will get better. Money will follow.
    It seems that Ukrainians cannot explain this.
  • KG_patriot_last
    KG_patriot_last 1 August 2013 17: 12
    +4
    This whole canoe is due to modern trends when a minority imposes its vision on the majority. I do not think that Ukraine is all opposed to Russia.
    1. tilovaykrisa
      tilovaykrisa 1 August 2013 17: 20
      +5
      I assure you not all, individual small-town foci of nationalism in Kyiv oblast, Lviv, and similar places, the rest are either for the Russian Federation or at least neutral.
  • knn54
    knn54 1 August 2013 17: 18
    +8
    "Happiness" in Europe is not seen only by the blind or .. To compare Russia with European beggars standing in line with an outstretched hand for another handout from the IMF is to compare a machine builder, metallurgist or miner of the South-East with a swineherd from Galicia. Wanting to be a servant in the houses of Europe is not a question, but without me.
  • Yuri Y.
    Yuri Y. 1 August 2013 17: 36
    +3
    Quote: So_o_tozh
    hence the conclusion - an ordinary Ukrainian looks at the Russian Federation and says: nifigas strangle us - it’s him cheese, sugar, glass, sweets, metal is not that wrong, direct sabotage against Russia is solid ... Hence the opinion of people, at least mine friends, we’ll die but Russia will not give up, no matter how bad we were, in the last resort we’ll try to leave our Honduras.

    Everything is correct, and Russia is acting against the actions of the Ukrainian government on rapprochement with the West. Propaganda from you shows it this way (in the sense of Russia imperially strangling Ukraine). Leave wherever you want, if you do not choose 1 of 2. Russia, in the person of Putin, has already said (go) wherever you want. Then there will be what happens, it will be shitty for you anyway. Yet not one country was in the benefit of submission to the United States.
  • My address
    My address 1 August 2013 17: 56
    +5
    Please pay attention to the following article in Regnum:

    E. Pozhidaev.
    "Russia and the unlucky backyard of the European Union: myths of fans of the" Euroshut "."

    I would suggest the VO administration print this article, but what if that doesn't work out. In the article, you can leave only the numbers and it will be amazing. I repeat, in the USSR, donors (consumed less than they produced) were only Russia and Ukraine (this, as Ostap Bender said, is a medical fact, although the Baltic states lived better), and Ukraine produced more per person. Where is Ukraine now ?! I knew a lot about the industry of Ukraine, so where is it now ?! It's a shame. We razderbanil and Ukrainians noodles on the ears hang.
  • ed65b
    ed65b 1 August 2013 18: 11
    +1
    Let them sign, this is their sovereign right. And we'll see. They will do so as it is beneficial to them, and we as it is beneficial to us, that's all.
  • pensioner
    pensioner 1 August 2013 18: 25
    +5
    Quote: Rosomaha67
    And the distinguished author of Kars, an expert on tanks and armored personnel carriers, whose reasoned remarks I like to read on this site

    Yes, with him, everything will be HARASHO !. Finds a niche. Either for utilization (which is also for a long time), or for bringing the Ukrainian army to the standards of Nata ... Does he need more? Or: "We are well fed here too!", Or: "After us - even a flood!" Well, or: "Ukraine and the EU are brothers forever!" ... But the grandmother will be. With any option from 5 ...
  • Grbear
    Grbear 1 August 2013 18: 28
    +5
    Hmm. The situation is extremely complicated.
    The thousands that were sitting around the Maidan did not disappear. They sit for the time being. The oligarchs are rightly afraid, ours have become skilled and will be richer. Politicians on "feeding" - it is necessary to work out. "Janek" takes aim at the chairs, and will get the aim anyway.

    You don't have, sir, Danko with a burning heart. Everything else is "objective" reasons, excuses and indecision.

    But Russia never told anyone - no. But the hand should be open and thoughts clean. There will be no second pipe.
    1. densh
      densh 1 August 2013 19: 26
      +4
      But there is no real pro-Russian party
      Who to vote for
      1. ATATA
        ATATA 1 August 2013 22: 37
        +3
        Quote: densh
        Who to vote for

        For the Kalashnikov assault rifle.
        1. densh
          densh 1 August 2013 23: 08
          0
          It's too early (well him)
        2. zmey_gadukin
          zmey_gadukin 2 August 2013 16: 18
          0
          Quote: ATATA
          For the Kalashnikov assault rifle.

          Well, I think this is an extreme option
  • Yankuz
    Yankuz 1 August 2013 18: 39
    +3
    Bought "Brothers-Slavs" for Euro-American grubs! But it won't bring them joy and happiness! We can-see what will come of this marriage. Only it will be long and painful to get out of there, if they get out at all! Because Gayrope has no future! Soon there won't be any reaction to Femen at all, the Gameman will have to be created!
  • akreworpa
    akreworpa 1 August 2013 18: 44
    +2
    Quote: S_mirnov
    S_mirnov (2) Today, 16:22 ↑ New
    “Moscow cannot but see that Ukraine is increasingly turning into a country dependent on imports. Today even potatoes, sugar and lard are brought to Kiev from abroad.” - oh, how funny!
    We are teaching Ukrainians life, and we have long since lost our food independence (in the sense that if we cut off food supplies from abroad in the Russian Federation, then we will begin hunger).
    In stores, finding domestic meat is a problem. Apples polish, Israeli carrot. If the potato is domestic, then it is necessarily sick, it does not lie for a long time.

    Probably S_mirnov lives in Moscow, but everything is basically ours. I buy meat at the market, like potatoes. And I assure you when selling these products by Azerbaijanis it doesn’t even smell. By the way, we have several poultry farms and large dairies in the region. so dear you are completely wrong.
  • azkolt
    azkolt 1 August 2013 18: 55
    +4
    Quote: shpuntik
    Conclusions in the article in the right direction +. But I want to focus on the status of the Russian language, which Janek has downgraded.
    That's why I love Ukrainian songs, and from TV advertising in Ukrainian, hunting is laughing? Does anyone know this? In my opinion, there is some kind of advantage in the Russian language in the modern world. On the other hand -
    he unites. Therefore, the modern Russian language, no matter how littered with a foreign language, cannot be removed from Ukraine.
    If it happens, as "Yanek" does, then later (one, two generations - 50 years) they will start playing off our brothers, artificially divided.

    In fact, time plays against us, the further the integration becomes more difficult, the new generation of Russians and Ukrainians no longer considers themselves brothers