Military Review

Czechoslovak AMOS

37
Czechoslovak AMOS

An interesting, but unfortunately low-volume sample created in the homeland of Jan Hus. The ShM vz.85 PRÁM-S self-propelled mortar was developed in Czechoslovakia. The development of the SHM self-propelled mortar began at the national design office in Trencin in 1980, and the first prototypes were built in 1982 and 1985 year. But the first and only batch in 12 pieces was produced only in 1990 year.


The ACS is designed for artillery batteries of mechanized battalions as a replacement for towed 120 mm mortars vz. 82, for increased mobility on the battlefield. However, her fate became a victim of "political games".


Self-propelled gun was built on the basis of ВVP- (BMP-1). but lengthened by one rink. This is due to the placement of not only mortar, but also ammunition on the 80 min. MTO is completely identical with the Soviet BMP-1.

Despite the assertion of some SKEPTKOV about the impossibility of using an automatic loader for the "Soviet" type of mine He still had it.

The loading of the mortar is provided by an automatic loader, which consists of: a lifting part, a charger and a conveyor.
Capacity conveyor 21 shot.




Another 35 shots are stored in trays to the left of the AZ and 24 to the right. Moreover, the replenishment of AZ can be done by the loader not until the store / conveyor is completely “empty”, but directly during the shooting.

The crew also includes: the commander, gunner-operator and driver-mechanic.

The maximum rate of fire that a mortar can lead is 18-20 shots per minute, however, the recommended 40 shots per 5 minutes.
Opening the driver's hatch blocked the mortar firing.
For self-defense, the SAU has a NSVT machine gun (with ammunition for 300 ammunition).
If necessary, over the hatch of the gunner can be mounted ATGM with three missiles (9K111 or 9K113).
The crew also had 4 RPG-75, F-1 grenades and VZ assault rifles. 58.
Self-propelled mortar vz.85 PRAM-S is characterized by high mobility on the battlefield and high rate of fire. First of all, it is designed to eliminate the enemy's manpower, and lightly armored vehicles.

The car turned out very successful and modern. But she was prepared for a sad fate. According to the Treaty on Conventional Armed Forces in Europe, which was signed by 19 on November 1990 in Paris (three months before the termination of the Warsaw Pact), the vehicles hit the reserve and were taken to the storage base as "armored tracked vehicles with a weapon over 100mm", and did not fall into the quotas established for Czechoslovakia. In fact, the ACS did not get to the troops.

After the collapse of Czechoslovakia according to the formula 2: 1, 8 machines went to the Czech Republic, 4 - Slovakia.

In the 1995 year, after 10 years after they were put into service, the Czech and Slovak SAUs still made it to the front-line units, where they are still in use.

In parts of 7, the brigade of the Czech Republic and the 1 mechanized brigade of Slovakia were mechanized.











TTX
• Caliber: 120 mm
• Crew: 4 person
• Barrel length: 1917 mm
• Machine length: 7470 mm
• Case height: 2250 mm
• Case width: 2940 mm
• Track width: 2550 mm
• Maximum speed: 63 km / h
• cross country: 28-33 km / h
• on water 7 km / h
• Total weight: 15970 kg
• Power reserve: 550 km
• Mortar elevation angle +: 40-80 °
• Horizontal: ± 15 °
• Maximum shot range: 8036 m
• Minimum range: 504 m
• Number of shots per minute 1: 18-20
• Number of shots in 5 minutes: 40
• Ammunition mines: 80 pcs




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  1. xetai9977
    xetai9977 31 July 2013 09: 30
    10
    Czechs and Slovaks have always had a good design school. True, they did it mainly for themselves. Although the very successful L-39 Albatros machine still serves faithfully in the aviation of many countries. AMOS seems to be the name of the Swedish-Finnish mortar installation ...
    1. Greyfox
      Greyfox 31 July 2013 09: 43
      +9
      And what is the advantage of this device over "Nona" or "Vienna"? Against their background, the Czech unit is somehow not very ...
      1. Argon
        Argon 31 July 2013 11: 01
        12
        The main reason for the slipping of this project, in my opinion, was the "appearance" at that time (mid-80s) of "universal" (and in fact a hybrid of a gun and mortar) artillery systems "Nona". Which at the same cost price had much greater opportunities for the battlefield than a mortar on tracks. So that the respected Greyfox has no advantages, the Czechs understood this (we must give them their due) and did not bother.
        1. Akim
          31 July 2013 11: 05
          +7
          Quote: Argon
          not any advantages

          What about the rate of fire? Almost twice as high as Nona.
          1. Greyfox
            Greyfox 31 July 2013 11: 52
            +5
            The main difference between our products and the Czech ones is that ours have a cannon-howitzer that can shoot both shells and mines. The nomenclature of ammunition used by "Vienna" is huge. Comparing the cost of "AMOS" with ours is difficult to say. It was infa that Azerbaijan purchased 18 pieces "Ven" - can someone from there comment on the cost? Just still need to take into account that "Vienna" is a very sophisticated product ...
            The maximum rate of fire that a mortar can lead is 18-20 shots per minute, however, the recommended 40 shots per 5 minutes.

            "Vienna" has 8-10, "Nona" also. So, if you do not take into account the super-stressed mode, the figures are comparable.
            1. Akim
              31 July 2013 11: 59
              +4
              Quote: Greyfox
              So, if you do not take into account the overstress mode, then the numbers are comparable.

              It was created for modern warfare. At such a range, it is three minutes until they receive counter-battery fire at positions (the mortar is detected after the first shot). So the battery has a minute. 120 minutes per minute is better than 60. The Nona shell has a higher explosive capacity and fewer fragments. It turns out on an open battlefield with them with mines parity. But there are fewer and more expensive.
              1. Greyfox
                Greyfox 31 July 2013 12: 39
                +4
                Have you forgotten that "Nona" also fires mines? That it is based on the BMD (since it is still a paratrooper self-propelled gun), and therefore naturally its ammunition is less than that of a vehicle made on an extended BMP base?
                mortar is detected after the first shot

                You just don’t think about telling those who really fought in the same Chechnya. Yeah, after the first shot ...
                1. Akim
                  31 July 2013 12: 42
                  +2
                  Quote: Greyfox
                  You just don’t think about telling those who really fought in the same Chechnya.

                  In Chechnya, they fought against the modern army of the NATO standard? Thank God no.
                  1. avt
                    avt 31 July 2013 16: 12
                    +5
                    Quote: Akim
                    In Chechnya, they fought against the modern army of the NATO standard? Thank God no.

                    You are right, in Chechnya on both sides the standard was Soviet, although, for example, the Czechs were better packed with communications. We got acquainted with the NATO standard during the war on 08.08.08. As it turned out faster and faster. With regards to the device itself - yes, the design is original, no doubt about it. But in the presence of "Vienna" ,,, Hosts "- is it worth bothering with such a sample? I do not know . Rather, it is suitable as a variant of wartime, when any bast in the line, you can even put a penny on a self-propelled gun. But in general, nothing more original.
                    1. Akim
                      31 July 2013 17: 08
                      +3
                      Quote: avt
                      Our met with the NATO standard during the war 08.08.08.

                      "Kolkhida" was also assembled from ZiL units, but with Georgian hands. Don't compare Western and Central Europe with Georgia.
                      Quote: avt
                      But in general - originally nothing more.

                      I think Ukraine will follow the path of Russia with the remodeling of 2C1. At least it would have been cheaper like that. Although the mortar and 2A80 are not rivals in the arms market, but financially this is more realistic. And tactically, such a self-propelled guns are slightly behind the Soviet models.
                      1. avt
                        avt 31 July 2013 17: 56
                        +4
                        Quote: Akim
                        "Kolkhida" was also assembled from ZiL units, but with Georgian hands. Don't compare Western and Central Europe with Georgia.

                        You shouldn’t belittle the work of the Amers in Georgia, they learned and armed them quite well, and there were enough skilled mercenaries in both air defense and armored vehicles, and even the electronic equipment was at a very good NATO level.
                    2. alone
                      alone 31 July 2013 22: 11
                      +1
                      you familiarized with the NATO standard 08.08.08. but the enemy was clearly not NATO)))
                      1. cyberspace
                        cyberspace 1 August 2013 16: 58
                        +3
                        Quote: lonely
                        you familiarized with the NATO standard 08.08.08. but the enemy was clearly not NATO)))

                        These are already the problems of the enemy.
                        And the device is quite decent, in the mid-80s., At the moment it is already a bit outdated, and there is no possibility of release.
                2. alone
                  alone 31 July 2013 13: 33
                  +4
                  Nona on the basis of not BMD, but on the basis of a floating tracked BTR-d.
                  1. Greyfox
                    Greyfox 31 July 2013 14: 18
                    +4
                    If literally, then yes, you are right. I’ll just clarify that the BTR-D, in turn, was created on the basis of the BMD. I meant that since Nona is airborne, its dimensions will be more modest than self-propelled guns based on infantry fighting vehicles ...
                    1. alone
                      alone 31 July 2013 16: 47
                      +5
                      agree with you
            2. xetai9977
              xetai9977 31 July 2013 13: 27
              +4
              GREYFOX Yes, indeed we bought 18 Veins. They were shown at the parade on June 26th. But of course, I can't say anything about the cost. Such things do not appear in print.
            3. alone
              alone 31 July 2013 22: 12
              +2
              veins cool car, no complaints
          2. Argon
            Argon 31 July 2013 11: 53
            +9
            Dear Akim, what are you trying to catch me on the chaff, well, all the same I have a gray shoulder strap. The rate of fire of "Nona" is 8-10v \ m. And this "masterpiece" has 40v \ 5min, i.e. the same 8 rounds per minute. Do not remember the rate of fire, in your article it is said somewhat vaguely, but rather succinctly (we read between the lines). "Not recommended" - at least we shoot into a white light as a pretty penny, as a maximum, something will break. Even if we take the technical rate of fire for the given, the "Czech" will not be able to realize its advantages in practice, because the lack of modern positioning / aiming systems forces the battery to make sighting shots (with one mortar) before a battery volley (the Slovaks still have 4 barrelsbelay) .Thus, the time spent in the position increases.
            1. Akim
              31 July 2013 12: 11
              0
              Quote: Argon
              Dear Akim, that you catch me on the chaff

              If we talk about the current state, and not as planned (in Russia, only 20 years later they switch to "Hosts"), then this group of machines does not represent any combat value at all. But they had to be in mass production and could even be exported to the USSR).
              1. Argon
                Argon 31 July 2013 12: 48
                +4
                My dear Akim, about what states? we compare the RATE of FIRING of "Nona" and "Cech" at the time of 85. And their potentialities. And you "translate the topic" Leave your fabrications regarding the introduction of a foreign model into service with the CA. Let's not move away from the realities of the mid-80s. And so I repeat, Czechoslovakia had no reason to produce its own "sample" with the possibility of "buying" the Soviet "Nona" because the consumption of resources for the country was comparable, and the "consumer" properties of the "Nona" were much higher. It should be added that the self-propelled versions of the "Nona" initially had the ability to use adjustable ammunition.
                1. Akim
                  31 July 2013 13: 03
                  +1
                  Quote: Argon
                  And you "translate the topic" Leave your fabrications about the introduction of a foreign model into service with the SA.

                  Let's go a little off topic. Yesterday, before writing this whole "crap" I re-read Czech sites. It turns out that the licensed BVP-1 was supplied from the USSR, in contrast to the Polish BWP-1 and Romanian MCI-84. So a similar mortar could well appear with us.
                  Now about the realities of those years. The Czechs planned these SPGs as mortar batteries. At that time, "Nona" went exclusively to the Airborne Forces.
                  1. Argon
                    Argon 31 July 2013 13: 56
                    +1
                    Well, if the Czechs armed the CA (???), and the most weighty argument at the same time "Czech sites" I probably cannot but agree, this mortar is an EXTREMELY SUCCESSFUL sample, especially on the criterion of price / quality, you Akim CONVINCED me (in the dispute they ground IRON ARGUMENTS!). I wonder why the Czechs did not release it? And in the USSR, in fools, why did they not accept it? Go to German sites, you will learn a lot for yourself, for example, that the Ural-375 purely GDR development, just released in Mias. And please do not waste your time on me - you do not have to answer.
                    1. Akim
                      31 July 2013 14: 08
                      +1
                      Quote: Argon
                      Go to German sites, you will learn a lot for yourself, for example, the fact that the Ural-375 is a purely GDR development was simply issued in Mias.

                      I don't know German at all. Czech is a Slavic language and is more or less understandable if you know Polish and Ukrainian. As for the armament of Czechoslovakia SA. Then there was nothing wrong with that. The Mi-2 was received from Poland, Part of the T-55 was received from Czechoslovakia. "Varshavyanki" were also built at the Gdansk shipyards and so on and so on and so on.
                      1. Greyfox
                        Greyfox 31 July 2013 14: 24
                        +4
                        "Varshavyanki" were also built at the Gdansk shipyards

                        Typo or mistake? Submarine "Varshavyanka" was built only in the USSR and Russia and had relation to the Poles only by the name ...
                      2. Akim
                        31 July 2013 16: 55
                        +1
                        Quote: Greyfox
                        Typo or mistake?

                        Most likely my mistake. But Gdansk was building landing ships for us.
                      3. Argon
                        Argon 31 July 2013 23: 30
                        +2
                        Yes, and the Mi-2 in service in the USSR was never accepted, like Czech tanks. The question of adopting the Tatra-815 vehicle as a unified transport platform of the countries participating in the VD was resolved positively (subject to the modernization of UralAZ and its release there according to But Raisa Maksimovna hacked down this decision in 86, the USSR left this program.
                  2. svp67
                    svp67 31 July 2013 23: 37
                    +2
                    Quote: Akim
                    Part of the T-55 was obtained from Czechoslovakia.
                    I have never met the Czech T55 with us, but the vehicles based on it - BTS, bridge layers, etc. were, as were the Czech BM1
                  3. Akim
                    31 July 2013 23: 44
                    0
                    Quote: svp67
                    I have never met with us Czech T55s, but machines based on it - BTS, bridge spacers, etc. were,


                    So we refer to the incorrectness of the translation. Apparently I misunderstood that it was an original tank or equipment based on it.
              2. Bad_gr
                Bad_gr 31 July 2013 19: 51
                +2
                Quote: Argon
                Well, if the Czechs SA armed (???) .....

                Some of the technology was really delivered to the CA. When I served, in our tank regiment (Hungary), among the BMP-1 were Czechoslovak production. Visually differed from ours in that the driver had 4 viewing devices instead of 3 (not ours had a triplex directed 90 degrees from the main one, to the left [field of view perpendicular to the board])
                1. Argon
                  Argon 31 July 2013 22: 52
                  -2
                  I have reason to question this fact in great doubt, I can’t ask for any confirmation, at least in the form of links to some materials, at least three comments from people who have experience operating Czech armored vehicles in SA will be enough. I can assert that not one unit of equipment there was no foreign production (by 84g) in service with the USSR Armed Forces (exception of the Air Force-MiG15UTI; L-29; L-39) and the Navy-MDK and KFOR; auxiliary vessels.
            2. cdrt
              cdrt 31 July 2013 19: 44
              +1
              Here's the question - why didn’t it go to the Nona-SV series?
              Maybe someone knows what the struggle was, what didn’t go?
              It is clear that Nona was, but for MSV it was actually nothing.
              Vienna is another generation after all, and dear as a spaceship wink
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 31 July 2013 22: 34
                +2
                They had no place in the state of motorized rifle regiments.
                In 1981, the Sani was adopted.
                1. Akim
                  31 July 2013 22: 46
                  +2
                  Quote: Spade
                  In 1981, the Sani was adopted.


                  The "sleigh" was accepted in the old fashioned way. In Afghanistan, Nona-S showed that self-propelled mortars are needed. "Cornflower" on MTLB was not made from a good life handicraft.
                2. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 31 July 2013 22: 54
                  0
                  Quote: Akim
                  In Afghanistan, Nona-S showed that self-propelled mortars are needed.

                  And they had to replace 2C1 and 2C3? Not a very smart decision. "Nona-S" self-propelled guns of the regimental level, not battalion.
                3. Akim
                  31 July 2013 23: 05
                  0
                  Quote: Spade
                  And they had to replace 2C1 and 2C3?

                  Changing Acacia or even Carnation to Nona just because of the same level of belonging is stupid - therefore, such steps have never been applied. But to make a self-propelled mortar for motorized rifles - this would probably be the right decision.
                4. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 31 July 2013 23: 34
                  +1
                  Quote: Akim
                  But to make a self-propelled mortar for motorized rifles - this would probably be the right decision.

                  And where to shove it? The USSR had a lot of money, but not enough to equip mortar batteries of motorized rifle battalions with self-propelled guns.
                5. Akim
                  31 July 2013 23: 47
                  0
                  Quote: Spade
                  to put into service the mortar batteries of motorized rifle battalions self-propelled guns


                  And where are they shoving "Host" now? Or has modern Russia become richer than the USSR?
                6. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 31 July 2013 23: 51
                  -1
                  So it is now. They began to think about this only in the early 90s after large-scale reductions.
  • Flooding
    Flooding 31 July 2013 12: 36
    +3
    Quote: Akim
    What about the rate of fire? Almost twice as high as Nona.

    Tower performance is still preferable.
    1. Akim
      31 July 2013 12: 39
      0
      Quote: Flood
      Tower performance is still preferable.

      I agree. But at such angles of horizontal aiming, this is not critical, and if anything can be turned with a caterpillar.
  • svp67
    svp67 31 July 2013 23: 26
    +1
    Quote: Akim
    What about the rate of fire? Almost twice as high as Nona.
    strange, but for such a machine, "Cornflower" suggests itself and many problems, in particular with the MZ, would be solved much easier ...
    1. Akim
      31 July 2013 23: 33
      +1
      Quote: svp67
      strange, but for such a machine, "Cornflower" begs itself

      "Vasilek" is too small for battalion-level missions. An 82-mm self-propelled gun could fit into a company.
  • self-propelled
    self-propelled 31 July 2013 11: 26
    +3
    respected Argon whence such conclusions about the cost price?
    and why the Western armies do not forget about simple self-propelled mortars
    as an example, a German self-propelled mortar system on a Wiesel chassis or Belarusian SM-120 dearer to our hearts?
  • avdkrd
    avdkrd 31 July 2013 11: 38
    +1
    probably the price - since a lighter platform and a simpler mortar system, automatic loader were used. Nona and Vienna are another class of artillery, certainly having much greater capabilities, but the price is different.
  • cosmos111
    cosmos111 31 July 2013 13: 38
    0
    Quote: xetai9977
    mostly for myself. Although a very successful L-39 Albatros car is still faithful and

    You are wrong, but the PZ-38 tank in the German classification, the most modern tank in the world for the year 1940.
  • Bae likhte
    Bae likhte 31 July 2013 09: 42
    +2
    the design is good, I completely agree with the design school
  • Alexey Prikazchikov
    Alexey Prikazchikov 31 July 2013 09: 54
    +3
    And the Czechs just did well. We did not start to fence the garden like ours in several platforms and motorcycle leagues and infantry fighting vehicles. And they made several cars on one base and did not steam. The same Syrians, by the way, bought sanitary bombs from them. That's why ours couldn’t do that.
  • Druid
    Druid 31 July 2013 11: 32
    +5
    Well done Czechs. A small country, and as much unique technology has been created as there are manufactures, the Czech defense complex is generally beyond praise.
    The mortar is good and effective, plus - cheap and angry, and taking into account Czech production it is also of high quality.
  • Lopatov
    Lopatov 31 July 2013 12: 00
    +1
    Bad system. It is located between the two classes of CM and at the same time not only collected all the shortcomings of both classes, but also added its own.
    1. Akim
      31 July 2013 12: 12
      -1
      Quote: Spade
      Bad system. Located between two classes of SM

      And what about the "Host" in the battalion's mortar battery?
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 31 July 2013 13: 01
        +2
        "Hosta" is a bright representative of the mortars installed in the tower. In addition to ours, Scandinavians, Poles, and Chinese keep them.
        The second option is a type of Jewish CARDOM.

        The Czechoslovak SM does not belong to any of the types.
        1. Akim
          31 July 2013 13: 13
          -1
          Quote: Spade
          The Czechoslovak SM does not belong to any of the types.


          Explain to me. Why mortar round fire? Czechs have created their own without fitting into existing standards.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 31 July 2013 13: 29
            +3
            Quote: Akim
            Why mortar round fire?

            Geometry. Battalion - 5 km. along the front, the battery is 2-3 km from the first trench. We calculate. We get a sector of 80 degrees. This is if you do not have to work on the flanks.
            1. Akim
              31 July 2013 13: 40
              0
              Quote: Spade
              We get a sector of 80 degrees. This is if you do not have to work on the flanks.

              I agree. But this self-propelled gun is better than a transportable mortar with its ± 5 at 2B11 (7 at vz.82) degrees. In addition, 80 degrees is not 360.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 31 July 2013 13: 45
                +3
                It's better. On wet loam, after intensive firing, only the machine can pull out the plate.
          2. cosmos111
            cosmos111 31 July 2013 14: 07
            +4
            Quote: Akim

            Explain to me. Why mortar round fire? H

            If the heights were squeezed in a mountain gorge, this requires circular firing.
            The Czecho-Slovak mortar is nevertheless tied to the NATO standard.
            120 mm self-propelled mortar
            ASCOD-AMC-120.
            BMP ASCOD was developed in 1990. developed: command post, sanitary, engineering, repair and evacuation, radio communication machines, self-propelled 81-mm and 120-mm mortars, anti-tank missile systems. Nothing new to NATO standards.
  • Lopatov
    Lopatov 31 July 2013 12: 08
    +1
    Despite the assertion of some SKEPTKOV about the impossibility of using an automatic loader for the "Soviet" type of mine He still had it.

    So shot on a single charge. What further reduced combat effectiveness.
    1. Akim
      31 July 2013 12: 16
      +2
      Quote: Spade
      So shot on one charge

      Understood who I am talking to laughing Maximum range for 8 km. So they found a way.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 31 July 2013 13: 04
        +2
        And then. Shoot on a single charge, sacrificing accuracy in sacrifice of rate of fire. And efficiency, because with such a pace you can shoot only at the factory settings of the fuse.

        In short, "CM for polygons".
        1. Akim
          31 July 2013 13: 17
          +1
          Quote: Spade
          factory fuses only.

          The fuses are set by the loader on the orders of the commander of the machine. And if you upgrade it, then you can install electronic remote tubes, which will be cocked directly in the barrel.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 31 July 2013 13: 36
            +1
            At a speed of 15-20 fuses per minute? Hard to believe. Even for drums

            Speaking of birds, where did you find the loader there? I do not see him point blank.
            1. cosmos111
              cosmos111 31 July 2013 13: 52
              +3
              Quote: Spade
              At a speed of 15-20 fuses per minute? Hard to believe.

              The rate of fire, I think, is not the main indicator. The main accuracy and firing range. Ammunition, both mines and 120 mm shells. And in this company 120 mm self-propelled guns, NONA and Vienna are not in competition.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 31 July 2013 14: 09
                +5
                Quote: cosmos111
                Rate of fire, I think, is not the main indicator.

                But very important.
              2. alone
                alone 31 July 2013 16: 09
                +1
                20 rounds per minute! Hmm .. if I honestly doubt it.
            2. Akim
              31 July 2013 13: 52
              +2
              Quote: Spade
              At a speed of 15-20 fuses per minute?

              Well, not so much but 8 - if the mortar continues to remain in position. and about the machine. Take a closer look at the place of the loader. The conveyor in the background. This is generally not nonsense of my sick imagination, but taken from their materials. Of course, I didn’t see that mortar in my eyes.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 31 July 2013 14: 05
                +3
                Quote: Akim
                and about the machine. Take a closer look at the place of the loader. The conveyor in the background.

                And if you look at everything in the complex? There is a mechanized warhead, there is a sending mechanism. But there is no automatic loader. Because the connection between them is made by the loader. Which secures ext. bunches and sets fuses in the process.
                And a high rate of fire is provided only when firing pre-prepared shots from stacks to the right and left of the loader.
  • Evgeny_Lev
    Evgeny_Lev 31 July 2013 15: 53
    +1
    Nona has one more significant plus. Nona shoots NATO ammunition of the appropriate caliber.
    1. alone
      alone 31 July 2013 16: 10
      +2
      actually, to be honest, nona and Vienna are the best in their class. and from foreign double-barreled Finnish-Swedish cars
  • SILVERLINE
    SILVERLINE 31 July 2013 16: 51
    +4
    luche etot minamet na nivu postavit on v 100 raz deshevle oboydetsya
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 31 July 2013 17: 15
      +2
      SRAMS, a work of Singaporean STE.

    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 31 July 2013 17: 33
      0
      And here's even cheaper. Most likely, "Niva" will pull

  • SILVERLINE
    SILVERLINE 31 July 2013 17: 46
    +1
    Quote: Spade
    And here's even cheaper. Most likely, "Niva" will pull


    1oo stuk etix sistem budut namnogo efektivneye 30 ceskix amosov iv 100 raz desevle
    1. Conepatus
      Conepatus 31 July 2013 19: 04
      0
      But in bad weather (rain, frost for -20)? Again, Chekhov has a crew for armor, and I don’t think that the old BMP1 will be more expensive than Hammer.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 31 July 2013 19: 24
        +2
        And in the mountains? Each vegetable has its own place.

        The Singapore mortar, like the Israeli CARDOM, is installed on the customer's vehicles. Any. Its listing on Humvee is just for advertising.

        American on trailer - for light infantry brigades, which are entirely on the Humvee. Well, for the equated airborne and airborne assault.
  • Boomer
    Boomer 31 July 2013 19: 03
    +1
    this unit is no longer relevant
  • michajlo
    michajlo 31 July 2013 19: 45
    +2
    Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
    Staff Sergeant
    Druid (1) RU Today, 11:32 AM
    Well done Czechs. A small country, and as much unique technology has been created as there are manufactures, the Czech defense complex is generally beyond praise.
    The mortar is good and effective, plus - cheap and angry, and taking into account Czech production it is also of high quality.

    Good day to all!
    I will bring a little clarity in nationality and country. Not Czechs but Czechoslovakians. The CSFR itself (the Czechoslovak Federation. Rep.) Was before 1989 - the 9th country in the world in industry 10-12th in the production of weapons.
    I quote:
    Staff Sergeant
    Druid (1) RU Today, 11:32 AM
    Well done Czechs. A small country, and as much unique technology has been created as there are manufactures, the Czech defense complex is generally beyond praise.
    The mortar is good and effective, plus - cheap and angry, and taking into account Czech production it is also of high quality.

    The city of Trencin itself (the design bureau and the plant) is already in present-day Slovakia, the former military-industrial complex in Slovakia only a few remained, and those before their last gasp "in rickety proportions" (in comparison with 1989, before the coup / that is, the "velvet revolution").
    After the separation of Czechoslovakia, more military industries and designers themselves, technicians and more faculties of mechanical engineering remained in the Czech Republic itself.
    Although the EU and NATO ice rink here in the Czech Republic and Slovakia is systematic and leisurely - it destroyed most of the military-industrial complex, as successful and dangerous competitors!
    In a town like Martin (40 thousand inhabitants, middle Slovakia) there was a large tank and diesel plant, where 25 employees worked (the figure for the entire 000 million Czechoslovakia is very large and significant).
    Here in Martin, they produced tanks (T-55 and modifications), did for 80-90% of Soviet tractors - diesel engines and much more.
    I know a little of the remnants of the military-industrial complex in Slovakia, since my old friend is a weapons designer.
    In the Povazske strojarne as, western Slovakia), in the 90s, I myself worked in a large design bureau (Vyvojovy ustav, 500 employees), and the plant itself, without a branch in Pukhov (for 15 km), gave 12 jobs and when I was 9 and then 6 thousand employees and because of him the village of Povazska Bystrica in the 60s became a regional center with 40 thousand inhabitants. In the same place, then, in addition to design and design work, they produced different and custom-made processing. machines and lines, also known throughout the CSFR, "Pioneer" mopeds, "Agzat" motor-tractors with a trailer, sewing machines, various bearings and in the series "oversized bearings" and motors DV2 (DV2) for the L-139 jet training fighter (Then engines were developed for the Yak-130, but this project died) and much more.
    Slovak machine-building and the military-industrial complex itself has practically died, now Slovakia (5 million inhabitants) is a European automobile assembly plant (Volkswagen plants in Bratislava, Lozorno, Devinska Nova Ves, PSA / Peugeot-Citroen Alliance plant, and KIA plant in илиilina). Moreover, the percentage of component manufacturing = 100% in Slovakia is only Korean KIA.
    Really in NV BMP and other armored vehicles, L-139 aircraft are developed and are produced in small series only in the Czech Republic.
    In Slovakia, design bureaus and military factories did not survive "during the privatization period"; apart from individual small projects and testing prototypes, they mainly repair and modernize old armor equipment, helicopters (Trencin, VOP_Vojensky Opravarensky Podnik) _ REO, radar station (Banská Bystrica) and Novaki (ammunition disposal plant, there was a big explosion and many dead and injured).
    For a long time (the end of the 90s) the Vienna Academy in Liptovsky Mikulas was liquidated (central Slovakia, near the High Tatras).
    Such is the sad reality of our days and the membership of Slovakia and the Czech Republic in NATO and the EU.
    1. Akim
      31 July 2013 19: 59
      0
      Quote: michajlo
      I will bring a little clarity in nationality and country. Not Czechs but Czechoslovakians.

      This is clear. Nobody wanted to offend the Slovaks, it’s just a habit since Soviet times. Many of us still call Indians Indians, and all Czechoslovakians were called Czechs. Then it was not perceived painfully. My father served in the South Ossetian Army and for the Magyars we were all Russians (both Ukrainian and Armenian and Greek). If we talk about the modern military-industrial complex, then these are of course separate structures
      1. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 31 July 2013 20: 16
        +2
        Quote: Akim
        Many of us still call Indians Indians,

        And they do it right:
        indИeggs are Hindus (India), and
        indЕeggs are the native population of America
        1. Akim
          31 July 2013 20: 20
          0
          Quote: Bad_gr
          these are indians


          Hindus are a religious orientation. Indians are citizenship. You have to be more competent. They are offended.
          1. Bad_gr
            Bad_gr 31 July 2013 22: 13
            0
            [B]
            Quote: Akim
            Hindus are a religious orientation. Indians are citizenship.

            [B] [/ b]

            Indians - (Hindus), adherents of the Hindu religion, prevalent in India and in the areas of resettlement of Indian emigrants. [b][b] Hindus are sometimes incorrectly called the entire population of India (correctly Indians). [/ b][/ b] * * * Hindus Hindus (Hindus), adherents of religion ... ... Encyclopedic dictionary

            Quote: Akim
            You have to be more competent.

            Well ?............
            1. Akim
              31 July 2013 22: 29
              -1
              Quote: Bad_gr
              Well ?............

              You still get the Bible, not the dusty books of the first half of the last century. Here is a website for you: http://defenceforumindia.com/forum
              I have been in contact with them for a year and a half. Probably I understood how to call them, and you are trying hard to prove to me the Medvedev dilemma ("B" or "On" - because it was so before). Live for today.
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. Akim
                  1 August 2013 00: 07
                  0
                  Quote: Bad_gr
                  put an end to the old directories, as the new ones will be rewritten more than once.

                  There is today. Tomorrow they will rewrite Ukraine for end - tomorrow we will think. Maybe tomorrow it will come in two hundred years. That we will only live bylins? This is like communism promised to our ancestors, but they did not live like my dad now, remembering only the old, but built a new one.
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                    1. Akim
                      1 August 2013 19: 04
                      -1
                      Quote: Bad_gr
                      In Ukraine, they began to say "in Ukraine" - for God's sake, a sovereign state has the right to speak as they see fit. But in Russian, from which language to use Ukrainian grammar?

                      You are trying to raise this problem sucked from Dmitry Anatolyevich's fingertips. Well, let's use wired phones, not gadgets. In English, it was decided that "on" was not spoken, but replaced by "in", and you, with the stubbornness of Budyonny, throw cavalry at machine guns with a shout: "It has always been this way!"
                      Power will change, time will change, take on new or old. And to prove that this did not happen before, so India was not a state until 47 and Ukraine until the 91st. Why offend that population. living in these territories? Understand that for the sake of a ridiculous principle, you can lose friends. I, too, mistakenly addressed to them HINDS. The first time, nothing was said, the second time, they made a remark. And I, with the stubbornness of a ram animal, did not seek the third time. I will not betray my views with this amendment.
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                      2. Akim
                        1 August 2013 19: 59
                        -1
                        Quote: Bad_gr
                        That's right, you communicated with them on their website in their language, so please, stick to their rules and their interpretation of words. In English this word has one meaning, in the Russian exposition - another.

                        That's it, I'm tired of it! That’s why I don’t even read such topics on the site, and you have made your centuries-old stubbornness a technical issue. Consider yourself Victor Vinogradov - please. You saw a Slovak offended. Here on the site sometimes an Indian comes across he is also offended. About the citizens of Ukraine, I generally keep quiet. No, to take note. You have the stubbornness of the boyars who did not want to accept Peter's reforms. I do not blame you. The policy of modern Russia is such, however, like that of the USSR and the Russian Empire. Therefore, we always lost the ideological war because of its closeness.
                        Do not drag me into a discussion on this topic.
                      3. The comment was deleted.
                      4. Akim
                        1 August 2013 21: 13
                        0
                        Quote: Bad_gr
                        import without necessity - at least, not respect for its history, its ancestors.

                        "Thank you" apparently our ancestors and history were different and you decided to assign only to yourself my native language. Why do such topics arise with Russian respondents. Thank God that very few people here speak Polish and do not notice that Polish will also be na Ukrainie. Although when I write w Ukrainie, no one there makes a comment and corrects me. But if we talk about an Indian (indyjska), then with an Indian (Hindus) these meanings are different.
                      5. Bad_gr
                        Bad_gr 3 August 2013 11: 12
                        +1
                        Dear Akim, who are you talking to?
                      6. Akim
                        3 August 2013 11: 25
                        -1
                        Quote: Bad_gr
                        and who are you talking to?

                        It goes with itself. Monologue at the mirror.
  • michajlo
    michajlo 31 July 2013 23: 25
    +3
    Do not take dear Akim to heart, no one is offended! If something is wrong, we will find out a little and deal with the details.
    In the Czechoslovak Socialist Republic itself, Czechs and Slovaks lived. Still lived and live Rusyns, Germans, Hungarians Jews and Gypsies.
    Czechoslovakia existed between WWI and WWII - the 1st republic (1918-1939), formed after the collapse of Austria-Hungary in 1918.
    Then Czechoslovakia included the Czech Republic, Moravia, Slovakia and Subcarpathian Rus (the current Transcarpathian region of Ukraine).
    Regarding Ruthenians (and I am one of them), they lived and live besides the current Slovakia and Ukraine in the Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland, the countries of the former Yugoslavia, Canada, the USA and Australia.
    About the Rusyns themselves in the current Transcarpathia walks a joke from the people very suitable for description European carousel with the change of state borders and names.

    In the late 90s from Kiev to Transcarpathia in a remote village came a young quirky journalist from Kiev and of course I wanted to interview the Carpathian old-timer.
    Well, grandpa (over 70) tells him about his life:
    I was born in Austria-Hungary, to Ruthenian school went to Czechoslovakia, then worked in mountain forests in Hungary, got married, then raised children and grandchildren in the USSR and now i senior citizen in Ukraine.
    The journalist then says to the old man, well, grandfather, what you are however restless. Why has it been your whole life throughout Europe that fate has rolled?
    And the grandfather answers him: You know a lot of young people. I’m from my native Carpathian village and did not move my ass. This is for all my life in Europe all the time the borders moved ...
    1. Akim
      31 July 2013 23: 40
      -1
      Quote: michajlo
      This is for all my life in Europe all the time the borders moved ...

      I know that. This story is very popular in Western travel guides, as tourists from Russia had to prove that there is no fat in chocolate in Odessa. In the end, someone cunning did. Muck is utter, but tourists are buying.
  • Genady1976
    Genady1976 31 July 2013 20: 35
    +4
    and how do you like the entot self-propelled mortar
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 31 July 2013 22: 22
      +4
      Steep. By the way, they are based on lend-lease "Harleys"
      1. Argon
        Argon 31 July 2013 23: 06
        +1
        So I did not wait for pictures of Cuban UAZs with transportable mortars, they have a very interesting "version of a 120-axle UAZ under a 3mm mortar."
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 31 July 2013 23: 23
          +1
          The gloomy Cuban genius is usually nonsense. It seems like this:
        2. Lopatov
          Lopatov 31 July 2013 23: 36
          +2
          Although the primacy of gloom is still among the Austrians with their four-barreled mortar
  • Aljavad
    Aljavad 1 August 2013 14: 14
    0
    There is nothing surprising in the appearance of this machine, as well as in its good quality. Although the respected Akim claims that one should focus on "today", without "yesterday" you will not fully understand anything and the questions will take longer than the answers.
    The first Czechoslovakia was formed after WWI in the most industrial regions of Austria-Hungary. The republic, modest in terms of territory and ambitions, received a colossal military-industrial complex - the largest in Europe in the 1920s. Design schools including. They worked mainly for export, but their own army was "packed". She would still have a fighting spirit and commanders ... The military-industrial complex is one of the reasons for Hitler's plans (these are those "half of Europe" that worked for the Wehrmacht). After the 45th the conveyors were not stopped - on the advice of Stalin they armed the army of young Israel.
    And they constantly participated in competitions for new weapons of the ATS. Dolphin and Albatross are the most successful results. And again we actively worked for export. Well, revolutions are not good for anyone - that's why 12 pieces of all good and inexpensive cars for low-intensity conflicts, or in a low-budget army.
    1. Akim
      1 August 2013 14: 46
      0
      Quote: Aljavad
      that's why 12pcs of a good and inexpensive machine for low-intensity conflicts, or in a low-budget army.

      12 pieces in total are two batteries, even for a brigade it's not enough. Now, if they start buying the Austrian ASCOD-AMC-120 or the Polish "Cancer" (AMOS license, then indeed - the project is dead. So far, they have towed 120-mm mortars in the battalion batteries. Neither the Czechs nor the Slovaks have plans to change their BMPs -1/2 - only to modernize them, which means that the plans for a self-propelled mortar of domestic production may be revived.
  • KEKS44
    KEKS44 1 August 2013 14: 55
    0
    Interesting thing.
  • netrabota
    netrabota 9 October 2013 18: 09
    +1
    better to use:

    Vespa 150 TAP military scooter (ACMA Troupes Aerol Portees Mle. 56) with a 75-mm recoilless gun M-20
    http://motoroller.biz/voennyj-skuter-vespa-150-tap-acma-troupes-aerol-portees-ml

    e-56-s-75-mm-bezotkatnym-orudiem-m-20-973 /
  • netrabota
    netrabota 9 October 2013 18: 13
    0
    Vespa 150 TAP military scooter (ACMA Troupes Aerol Portees Mle. 56) with a 75-mm recoilless gun M-20