Military Review

Ambiguous future of European nuclear power

89
Recent events directly indicate that the formation of a new trend is beginning in Europe. After numerous discussions and criticism of the nuclear power plants of the state, assessing their prospects, they change anger to mercy. In particular, the issue of complete abandonment of nuclear power plants is no longer being considered. For example, France continues its policy and does not even think to reduce the nuclear energy sector, Germany slows down the pace of decommissioning its nuclear power plants, and the UK intends to modernize or replace the old power units with new ones. As the Italian edition of Il Sore 24 Ore notes, recently, European countries have understood the value and prospects of nuclear energy, which is why it will soon begin to play its former important role. At the same time, the technological aspects and safety of nuclear power plants are now given greater attention. This was probably due to the 2011 event of the year at the Fukushima-1 Japanese nuclear power plant.


Against the background of European processes relating to the abandonment of nuclear energy, one of the most daring and interesting projects of recent times in this area has appeared not in the EU countries, but in Russia. This is the construction of a floating thermal power plant (FAPP) "Akademik Lomonosov". While European politicians argued about the need to preserve or close nuclear power plants on the ground, Russian engineers and shipbuilders launched a full-scale construction of a completely new class of equipment. The result of this project in the coming years will be the emergence of a dumb vessel with nuclear reactors and generators on board. One FAPP of a new project with a capacity of 70 MW will be able to provide electricity and heat to a settlement in which about 200 thousand people live, or several large industrial enterprises. In addition, if necessary, “Akademik Lomonosov” will be able to desalinate sea water in quantities up to 240 thousand cubic meters per hour.

Ambiguous future of European nuclear power


The first floating nuclear power plants of this project will serve in the northern and far eastern regions of Russia. In the future, the construction of a floating nuclear power plant for foreign customers is not excluded. Argentina, Indonesia, Malaysia and other countries have already shown their interest in such technology. Europe is still interested in only some technical details, but is in no hurry to initiate negotiations on the purchase or joint construction of a floating nuclear power plant. Probably the majority of European countries are not yet ready to engage in such bold, albeit promising projects. However, the Italian journalists from Il Sore 24 Ore could not get past one of the aspects of the new Russian project. They note the fact that nuclear reactors for a FAPP under construction are based on old Soviet military designs. In this regard, it is suggested that the use of reconstructed components and assemblies removed from the dismantled nuclear submarines is used.

It should be noted that the subject of floating nuclear power plants attracted not only Russian scientists and designers. For example, the French shipbuilding company DCNS, together with several specialized organizations, is currently developing the Flexblue project. It is planned to create a relatively large sea-based installation, but it will differ significantly from the Russian floating nuclear power plant. According to the current appearance of the project, French-made nuclear power plants will be a cylinder about 100 meters long and 12-15 meters in diameter. Inside the durable housing will house reactors and all necessary equipment. Before launch, such a power plant will be delivered to the right place a few kilometers from the coast, laid on the seabed at a depth of about 60-100 meters and fixed there. In accordance with this concept, submarine nuclear power plants with capacities from 50 to 250 megawatts can be built. This will allow supplying electricity to a settlement with a population of one hundred thousand to a million people.



Other European projects of nuclear power plants of the new look are still at the earliest stages and are unlikely in the near future to reach at least the elaboration of technical documentation. Almost all European states that have their own nuclear energy, now intend to deal with its traditional form, which implies the operation of ground facilities. At the same time, promising technologies and types of atomic reactors are being investigated. In view of the ambiguous economic situation in Europe, it is hardly worth waiting for the construction of new nuclear power plants to begin in the near future. Moreover, just a few months ago, some countries that actively use nuclear energy (including France) declared that they would not build nuclear power plants in the near future.

As a result of all the recent events in the European nuclear power industry, an interesting but ambiguous situation has developed. Several countries are leading projects designed to improve equipment and the state of the industry, but economic problems prevent them from full-scale implementation. In addition, the current public attitude to nuclear power plants further complicates the situation with the prospects of the industry.

However, the capabilities of nuclear power plants, both stationary, made in the form of a complex of capital facilities, and floating or installed on the seabed, allow us to speculate about their future. Efficiency over time will allow such systems to regain their former prestige and lost share in total electricity generation. In the long term, nuclear power plants can continue their growth and press other types of power plants. However, at present the number of such power stations is not only not growing, but is also decreasing. Obviously, the expected change in the views of the responsible persons will not happen today or tomorrow, but now European politicians are refusing to simply shut down nuclear power plants without taking into account the consequences of such decisions. Therefore, it remains to follow the promising projects like the Russian FAPP or the French Flexblue and wait news on the development of nuclear power.


On the materials of the sites:
http://ilsole24ore.com/
http://dw.de/
http://bbc.co.uk/
http://lenta.ru/
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  1. Belogor
    Belogor 31 July 2013 09: 07
    10
    Nuclear energy is a very promising business, the main thing is to develop and implement technologies for their safe operation. Russia is one of the leaders in this sector of world energy, and it’s nice!
    1. Siberian German
      Siberian German 1 August 2013 04: 08
      +1
      But how to serve under water?
  2. xetai9977
    xetai9977 31 July 2013 09: 09
    15
    So far, there is no alternative to nuclear power. Environmentally friendly sources such as solar or wind power have low efficiency and are still very expensive. All problems would be solved by thermonuclear installations, but work on them has been going on for more than 60 years, and "the light at the end of the tunnel" is not visible and is not expected in the near future.
    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 31 July 2013 09: 42
      +5
      Quote: xetai9977
      using wind power have low efficiency

      the main thing is their price, a 20 kW wind turbine costs about $ 20000 if you count it on today's tariff, then the point in it disappears instantly
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 31 July 2013 11: 39
        +3
        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
        the main thing is their price
        The price of large-scale production can be reduced, but the noise during its operation is more difficult to reduce. And with a decrease in noise, the efficiency decreases. Solar panels are still quite expensive in production, have low efficiency, and chemically unpleasant waste there turns out a fair amount
        1. Vasilenko Vladimir
          Vasilenko Vladimir 31 July 2013 14: 00
          0
          Quote: Misantrop
          Bulk production price

          if put massively, I'm talking about the price of individual installations
          1. Misantrop
            Misantrop 31 July 2013 14: 46
            +7
            Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
            I'm talking about the price of individual installations

            An individual can build an installation for himself, even on "fart steam" from a subsidiary farm, this is not energy, but the provision of energy supply to a private household. Which has a lot of its own characteristics.
            But ENERGY is production, transport, urban and higher social services, ensuring a single standard for the country, etc. You can stick a pedal generator into the yard and be glad that the power engineers will get a fig. But the power engineers, in response, can also be glad that they have been removed from care about private consumers and their needs. And here the familiar cry will begin that "the country has forgotten about the needs of an ordinary citizen !!!" lol
            1. Vasilenko Vladimir
              Vasilenko Vladimir 31 July 2013 15: 10
              +1
              Quote: Misantrop
              You can stick a pedal generator into the yard and be glad that the power engineers get a damn

              Yes, unfortunately, this fig will just go to the owner, at the current cost of individual generators this is not profitable, by the way in Europe, this is more or less maintained due to the fact that private traders can dump surpluses into a common network
    2. nov_tech.vrn
      nov_tech.vrn 31 July 2013 11: 03
      +5
      Yes, the economic crisis made it easier to count money and look less at political marginals under the guise of green ones, although in some countries like Bulgaria, green technologies are imposed by external forces, politics and nothing personal.
    3. AVV
      AVV 3 August 2013 21: 06
      -1
      The creation of promising reactors on Helium-3 is one of the alternative directions! There is very little of this isotope on earth! But on the moon this element is present in large numbers! If we manage to use this element in the synthesis reaction, then humanity will receive a huge in energy! At the same time will not suffer from a huge amount of radioactive waste !!!
      1. AVV
        AVV 5 August 2013 10: 23
        0
        This is some kind of an uneducated radish that has mined, which does not understand a damn thing in this topic, and does not follow the development of new technologies, for sure in the nuclear sector !!!
        1. Vasilenko Vladimir
          Vasilenko Vladimir 5 August 2013 10: 40
          0
          they still don’t fly to the moon, and you already share your minerals with great pleasure, with the same success we can now discuss sails in the solar wind
  3. serge-68-68
    serge-68-68 31 July 2013 09: 10
    +5
    Why is there a mixed future? Quite unequivocal - nuclear energy will develop in Europe. Energy is needed. Hope for Gazprom, but don’t be bad. But do not add bicycle generators to computers ...
    1. does it
      does it 31 July 2013 09: 27
      0
      Quote: serge-68-68
      But do not add bicycle generators to computers ...

      It’s much easier to buy portable hydroelectric power stations, I threw it in a stream, the house is provided with electricity, and even the whole village. I didn’t see them on sale in Russia alone on gas and gas power stations, but in Ukraine, yes.
      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 31 July 2013 09: 44
        +4
        Quote: kvirit
        in the stream, the house is provided with electricity, and even the whole village

        Excuse me, what will you do in winter ?, burn a splinter? !!!
        1. ed65b
          ed65b 31 July 2013 09: 58
          +2
          Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
          Quote: kvirit
          in the stream, the house is provided with electricity, and even the whole village

          Excuse me, what will you do in winter ?, burn a splinter? !!!

          Water flows in winter laughing
          1. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 31 July 2013 10: 09
            +7
            Quote: ed65b
            Water flows in winter

            strange, but it freezes at us
            1. ed65b
              ed65b 31 July 2013 11: 04
              +3
              you probably saw the frozen water from the refrigerator, any body of water, let alone the current stream, if not ankle-deep, does not freeze to the bottom like water in a bottle in the freezer. so minus you in natural history.
              1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                Vasilenko Vladimir 31 July 2013 11: 22
                +8
                you’ll be surprised, but I also live on the river bank, freezing 30-50 cm, which means that you have to think over the wire supply, generator fasteners, so that it does not disrupt, as a result, the cost of the construction will be such that the price of energy exceeds the tariff which you pay today
                1. zardoz
                  zardoz 1 August 2013 05: 54
                  0
                  And what is interesting, it is also silting up :) And another question, what should households do who have a distance of one kilometer from the nearest river?
                  1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                    Vasilenko Vladimir 1 August 2013 08: 46
                    0
                    Well, about this I already carried the tal to write, there will also be a skid of pitch
              2. abrakadabre
                abrakadabre 1 August 2013 14: 56
                0
                The most important thing in micro HPPs is the seasonal fluctuations of the watercourse by season. Why do you think that for large hydroelectric power stations on mountain rivers they put up a dam? First of all, for year-round constant pressure of water. Secondarily to create. On the plains, yes, to create the actual difference in levels and pressure.
                For mountain rivers, seasonal watercourse fluctuations can reach 20-50 times.
                And you will have to either install a turbine taking into account the minimum winter flow, or adjust the flow of the dam.
        2. Alez
          Alez 31 July 2013 10: 00
          +1
          In winter, twist the dynamo car
      2. ed65b
        ed65b 31 July 2013 09: 57
        +1
        Quote: kvirit
        Quote: serge-68-68
        But do not add bicycle generators to computers ...

        It’s much easier to buy portable hydroelectric power stations, I threw it in a stream, the house is provided with electricity, and even the whole village. I didn’t see them on sale in Russia alone on gas and gas power stations, but in Ukraine, yes.

        Throw a respected link to a site or model to search. I'm tired of the goats already paying for the light, but a stream near the house flows in and not such a frail one.
        1. Vasilenko Vladimir
          Vasilenko Vladimir 31 July 2013 10: 25
          +9
          Quote: ed65b
          but a stream near the house flows and not such a frail one.

          well people don’t tell, to begin with, calculate the power consumption (peak load), think about how you will serve the generator in winter with frozen water, how it will lead itself into the ice in spring.
          if we are talking about serious topics, then why in an amateurish approach to them
          1. ed65b
            ed65b 31 July 2013 11: 06
            +2
            a man in Dagestan built a mini hydroelectric power station by a stream in his garden and connected the village floor to it. lives does not bother all courts with power engineers won. so dear amateurs where they go near you. and here it is.
            1. Humen
              Humen 31 July 2013 11: 16
              +8
              What are the temperature differences in the region? What flow rates are the mini-hydro plants designed for? What will happen if the stream freezes from abnormal cold weather. To what extent does the electrical connection between the generator and consumer withstand shear loads from the ice drift? In the south it can and can be set if there is no river freezing. In most of Russia, rivers freeze.
              1. ed65b
                ed65b 31 July 2013 11: 28
                0
                I am in the south and live, I say to myself, I don’t consider the northern option. for me this is acceptable, I will buy equipment in Ukraine suitable for my conditions. that's all.
                1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                  Vasilenko Vladimir 31 July 2013 11: 34
                  0
                  you know the power of the necessary generator, south is where, in the sense of what is the thickness of the ice formation or do your rivers not freeze at all?
                  1. ed65b
                    ed65b 31 July 2013 11: 45
                    +1
                    I’ll tell you so, even in Irkutsk, on the river Ushakovka, the water does not freeze to the bottom. Never. with all 40 degree frosts. and if you take the mountain rivers, then there’s nothing to talk about at all on the waterfalls. I don’t even know where this is. I remember once in the Forge the inflow of Tomi froze to the bottom and I no longer remember. The south of our country has never seen a maximum of -20 frost for a week. and then a rarity. It is clear that you can’t put a generator on a sluggish rivulet and the Dagestan craftsman also used a flowing stream of water. But there are always options, there would be a desire. For example, we dig ponds for ourselves and nothing.
                    1. nerd.su
                      nerd.su 31 July 2013 13: 25
                      +2
                      Quote: ed65b
                      I don’t even know where this is.

                      Yakutia, Chukotka, Kamchatka, Amur Region, in general - the Far East. Plus the tundra. Large and medium rivers, of course, flow, although there are also specifics. And small ones, which are just for such generators - to the bottom, even mountain ones.

                      But in the south of the European part, and Western Siberia, but in general in the European part there are places where you want to set.
                      And they would, yes, we already have no special problems with electricity. Dagestan is a mountainous area, where small hydropower is more profitable than in the Vologda or Arkhangelsk regions.
                    2. Vasilenko Vladimir
                      Vasilenko Vladimir 31 July 2013 14: 07
                      +2
                      Yes, what have it to the bottom, it freezes or not
                      the structure must withstand the ice drift, an ice cube is a ton, and when there is a congestion of tens of cubes, your structure must withstand all this.
                      one thing came to the cottage or fishing and threw the generator for a day in the river, rested, packed up and left, and a completely different stationary generator with year-round operation
                      1. ed65b
                        ed65b 31 July 2013 14: 16
                        -1
                        Yes, I’m telling you about my personal generator for personal needs. yes small let the refrigerator draws light in the house or one thing. and 2 will pull more. how to protect it in the winter is another question, but the fact that it will reduce the payments to energy companies for the family budget is already a plus. And the tariff, judging by the efforts of our government, will only grow.
                      2. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 31 July 2013 15: 36
                        0
                        Quote: ed65b
                        Yes, I’m telling you about my personal generator for personal needs. yes small let the refrigerator draws light in the house or one thing

                        for the sake of interest, calculate the energy consumption of a private house, with water with utilities
                        Quote: ed65b
                        to protect it in winter is another question, but the fact that it will reduce the payments to energy companies for the family budget is already a plus

                        this is not another question this is the main question
                        Quote: ed65b
                        it will reduce the payments to energy companies for the family budget, this is already a plus

                        Yes, nothing he will not allow, the current price of this pleasure pays off for years, and you must pay the money for it right away. To make it profitable, either tariffs should skyrocket by orders of magnitude or the cost of installations should fall in price by the same orders of magnitude
                      3. abrakadabre
                        abrakadabre 1 August 2013 15: 28
                        0
                        It depends on where. If a remote village where light is often cut. That completely pays off. If in an urbanized area - spit on this autonomy. Not pay off.
                        And I agree, one-time costs can be significant.
                        The threshold value of the day of non-electrified home ownership can be considered as follows:
                        - If it is farther than 1,5-2 km from the nearest distribution network, then it is beneficial. Because the cost of installing poles, acquiring and installing the line, its connection is comparable or more expensive than autonomy. If you are closer to the networks - not worth it. Overpay.
                      4. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 1 August 2013 17: 55
                        0
                        Quote: abrakadabre
                        It depends on where. If a deaf village where light is often cut

                        Do you know a lot of people living in remote villages who can put themselves a generator for 2-5 thousand bucks?
                      5. abrakadabre
                        abrakadabre 2 August 2013 10: 08
                        0
                        The issue of finance is crucial. Who argues.
                        But the deaf village also will not pull the laying of 10-20-30 km of electricity to the savings of the villagers. It is about the verge when this autonomous station becomes profitable in comparison with the central distribution network.
              2. Andrey_K
                Andrey_K 1 August 2013 11: 43
                0
                If only a stick with a propeller is immersed in water, then you can somehow protect it from the ice drift - drive a pole into the bottom, which will prevent the ice from breaking the stick.
              3. Vasilenko Vladimir
                Vasilenko Vladimir 1 August 2013 14: 34
                0
                the stick will break at a time, if you drive in a concrete pile and more than one, which leads to higher construction costs, that is, again come to the financial disadvantage of the project
      3. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 31 July 2013 11: 35
        +1
        Quote: ed65b
        I am in the south and live silently and speak

        if so then what, in principle, is being worked out, I'm talking about that pseudo sarcasm addressed to me
      4. abrakadabre
        abrakadabre 1 August 2013 15: 20
        0
        If you have a stream and not a river, you can close your eyes to the problems of ice drift.
        Especially if you choose the option with the selection of the flow into the water conduit - in an extreme case, just block the water intake for a day or two and sit without light. Until the ice passes along the main channel.
        Above I wrote all the main stages. Yes! I almost forgot. A voltage regulator is required.
        1. Vasilenko Vladimir
          Vasilenko Vladimir 1 August 2013 15: 24
          0
          2 days without light, this means two days without water and electricity, in addition, the creek will essentially give you power for light bulbs and, at worst, the refrigerator (for 2 days, forgive the refrigerator, it will unfreeze with all the wipes)
          1. nerd.su
            nerd.su 1 August 2013 17: 30
            0
            Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
            2 days without light, this means two days without water and electricity,

            But still you need to have a gasoline generator in reserve, you never know what. So a couple of days is not a problem.
            1. Vasilenko Vladimir
              Vasilenko Vladimir 1 August 2013 17: 33
              0
              Do you know what a generator for 10-20 kilograms is ?!
            2. abrakadabre
              abrakadabre 2 August 2013 10: 16
              0
              Why such extremes? This is not a metalworking workshop. It is enough to have a backup generator just for a couple of bulbs and a refrigerator. It is for a short time that the main station stops unexpectedly. I would add to the refrigerator and bulbs sufficient reserve power for one drill / grinder ... So that when repairing the station you can power the tool
            3. Vasilenko Vladimir
              Vasilenko Vladimir 2 August 2013 13: 27
              0
              Do you live in a city or a village?
          2. nerd.su
            nerd.su 2 August 2013 15: 44
            -1
            Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
            Do you know what a generator for 10-20 kilograms is ?!

            Here it is necessary to decide. If the need is 20 kilos, then this is no longer a generator, which you can just throw into the water, but really a mini hydroelectric power station. Then, on the one hand, all problems will be solved in the design process, on the other hand, is it necessary to hell? This is the grandchildren pay off.
            I looked at the top of the proposal for a mini hydroelectric power station. Yes what for these ecologists.
            For one household in a remote area - 6 kW per eye is enough.
            In general, a generator of up to 6 pounds on gas and a backup on gasoline. A hydroelectric power station is fantastic, if only the whole village takes off.
          3. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 2 August 2013 16: 00
            0
            Quote: bot.su
            For one household in a remote area - 6 kW per eye is enough.

            such grief of energy kills me, if Ilyich’s bulb suits you and nothing more then this is your personal matter.

            only the water supply you will pull 3-4 kW (this is without flowing water heaters)
            and to it there is a washing machine, refrigerator, freezer, kettle, microwave, equipment for livestock needs, heating, etc.
            before writing, you need to understand in principle what you write about
          4. nerd.su
            nerd.su 2 August 2013 18: 58
            0
            Yes, I forgot about the washing machine. And so it’s enough for me, a refrigerator and an illich lamp. I prefer to boil tea on a gas stove, the microwave in the office is only good. Livestock farming and agriculture in general, requiring electricity, is already production, there are completely different needs for electricity. Better than connecting to the mains, there is nothing in this case. By the way, if the heating is electric, then connecting to the network is also more profitable than any generator. And if you live somewhere completely at the devil on the fuss, then you have to be realistic - 6 pounds.
          5. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 2 August 2013 20: 24
            0
            when you bring gas in cylinders for 20 km and it’s not yet a fact that it will be, you’ll think about how to boil your tea.
            nonsense about the microwave, leaving no money for it does not mean that it is not needed
            Quote: bot.su
            Livestock and agriculture in general, requiring electricity, is already production

            It's difficult to even comment on this nonsense, for the sake of interest, go to the site "Uralspetsmash" and look at the equipment for small farms, and for example, here is a list, a feed chopper, a grain chopper, a separator, a milking unit.
            power ~ 1.2-1.5 kW

            and before you write nonsense, take a calculator and count
            water pump 08-1.2 kW
            Boiler (100 L) 2.5 kW
            Washing machine 1.7-1.9
            Dishwasher 1.8
            Fridge 0.6
            2.5 Kettle
            Microwave 1.8
            Oven - 2.0-4.0
            Freezer 1.0
            Iron 2.0
            it’s 15 already, it is still necessary to take into account that the starting current is higher than the working one, there is no lighting (including street lighting, cattle) TV computers, power tools
            So. that you don’t have to be clever and prove that you basically have no idea

            do not be lazy go to your counter and see what kind of machine there is, but about 6 kilos leave for old women they can and will believe you
          6. vlum
            vlum 2 August 2013 22: 00
            0
            Now imagine a villager in one person who will launch this entire warehouse of electrical goods simultaneously

            from 25 kW of installed capacity - that's great, but it's not just one person, but a small agricultural company
          7. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 2 August 2013 22: 40
            0
            unlike you, I live in rural areas, 70 percent of the listed load can turn on at the same time, in addition, the peak load is calculated at the maximum, you don’t know about inrush currents

            Quote: vlum
            from 25 kW of installed capacity is great, but this is not just one person, but a small agricultural enterprise

            from which 25 established by whom and where
          8. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 2 August 2013 22: 50
            0
            Quote: vlum
            Now imagine a villager in one person who will launch this entire warehouse of electrical goods at the same time.

            do not consider people living in rural areas as some natives of the Tumba-Yumba tribe, in the list, as you put it, "warehouse of electrical goods" I did not include air conditioners for underfloor heating and similar things that make life easier, or do you think that this can be used in the city in the village only to the point on the street walks in a quilted jacket and kirzachs ?!
            Fuck you, we are the same people and love comfort too
          9. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 2 August 2013 22: 53
            0
            Quote: vlum
            Now imagine a villager in one person who will launch this entire warehouse of electrical goods at the same time.

            do not consider people living in rural areas as some natives of the Tumba-Yumba tribe, in the list, as you put it, "warehouse of electrical goods" I did not include air conditioners for underfloor heating and similar things that make life easier, or do you think that this can be used in the city in the village only to the point on the street walks in a quilted jacket and kirzachs ?!
            Fuck you, we are the same people and love comfort too
          10. vlum
            vlum 2 August 2013 23: 20
            0
            where did you get the idea that I definitely live in a city high-rise building, and not in my estate, i.e. have I been denied the right to live "on earth"? and where does it come from that I forgot about inrush currents and all other issues of reliable power supply?

            Moreover, your ignorance about the installed capacity would give a reason to argue, but only laziness to me ...
          11. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 2 August 2013 23: 30
            0
            Quote: vlum
            where did you get the idea that I definitely live in a city high-rise building, and not in my estate

            because of nonsense about
            it's great, but it's not just one person, but a small agricultural enterprise
            Quote: vlum
            Moreover, your ignorance about the installed capacity would give a reason to argue, but only laziness to me ...

            as a rule this means, I don’t know what to say in return, but I’ll make a smart face
    2. nerd.su
      nerd.su 3 August 2013 12: 33
      0
      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
      when you bring gas in cylinders for 20 km and it’s not yet a fact that it will be, you’ll think about how to boil your tea.

      We were taken for 50, absolutely free of charge, the inconvenience that once a week, it always ended abruptly. But in the presence of two cylinders there are no gas interruptions. And if feeding into the hermits, it is advisable to bring the number of cylinders to 10.

      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
      nonsense about the microwave, leaving no money for it does not mean that it is not needed

      Yes, use your health.


      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
      It's difficult to even comment on this nonsense, for the sake of interest, go to the site "Uralspetsmash" and look at the equipment for small farms, and for example, here is a list, a feed chopper, a grain chopper, a separator, a milking unit.

      And you can reference, otherwise I don’t see such equipment on this site. However, you are a strong business executive! :)
      Where I would like to live in solitude, this is useless, we have a risky farming zone. A small farm, hunting and fishing do not require any of the above.

      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
      and before you write nonsense, take a calculator and count

      From what you have listed, only the refrigerator, freezer and boiler are constantly working. i.e. 4,1 kW. Other devices are temporarily connected. No need to turn everything on at once Yes, and energy-saving bulbs can be put :)

      In any case, there is no recoupable alternative to connecting to networks yet. If you do not sell anything in sufficient quantities.
    3. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 3 August 2013 13: 01
      0
      From what you have listed, only the refrigerator, freezer and boiler are constantly working. i.e. 4,1 kW.
      at the same time, in the morning I turn on the microwave, milk is heated for the kids, I turn on the kettle, for myself, a dishwasher and a periodical washing machine, and accordingly to all this a water pump, in the winter the goat heater can work, plus the heating system circulation pump, plus light plus a TV
      We were taken for 50, absolutely free of charge, the inconvenience that once a week, it always ended abruptly. But in the presence of two cylinders there are no gas interruptions. And if feeding into the hermits, it is advisable to bring the number of cylinders to 10.
      if they are transporting it is not free and not of very good quality, 10 bottles of them also need to be stored somewhere, with all safety standards
      And you can reference, otherwise I don’t see such equipment on this site

      http://фермер.рф/ru/
      feed chopper
    4. nerd.su
      nerd.su 3 August 2013 13: 28
      0
      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
      at the same time, in the morning I turn on the microwave, milk is heated for the kids, I turn on the kettle, for myself, a dishwasher and a periodical washing machine, and accordingly to all this a water pump, in the winter the goat heater can work, plus the heating system circulation pump, plus light plus a TV

      Kaliningrad, this is Europe, it is probably not solid gas for kids and gas to heat tea. By the way, a lot of kids? Is one microwave enough? Okay, I agree, with European Ponte you need at least 10 kW. I wonder what source you’re powered from now. And what streams do you have nearby in order to launch a mini-hydro power plant?

      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
      if they are transporting it is not free and not of very good quality, 10 bottles of them also need to be stored somewhere, with all safety standards

      Ordinary gas corresponds to the guests. Delivery, of course, is included in the cost of gas. I guess I don’t remember, to be honest, it’s been a couple of years now with a gas pipeline in a big city.
    5. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 3 August 2013 14: 18
      0
      Quote: bot.su
      this is Europe, probably not solid gas for kids and gas to warm tea.

      it’s not profitable and not convenient for me a week’s balloon is not enough
      Quote: bot.su
      By the way, a lot of kids

      when like, 10 goats
      Quote: bot.su
      Okay, I agree, with European show-offs you need at least 10 kW

      this is not a show-off this is a NORMAL LEVEL, I repeat once again, life on the "earth" in comfort should not differ from the city and for this today there are all the technical possibilities, and we are all equal to 70 years of the last century
    6. nerd.su
      nerd.su 3 August 2013 15: 04
      0
      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
      I repeat once again, life on the "land" in terms of comfort should not differ from the city and for this today there are all the technical possibilities, and we are all equal to 70 years of the last century

      Well, in general, yes, it is. But without credit, inheritance or funds earned elsewhere - 70 years of the last century is an objective reality.

      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

      it’s not profitable and not convenient for me a week’s balloon is not enough

      What is not enough? Heat milk tea? This is enough for a year. Well, if cooking add, then for six months. If you have seven on benches and goats you feed porridge, to hell with him, for a month.

      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
      when like, 10 goats

      let the kids 10. And you have enough microwave, heat for all?
    7. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 3 August 2013 15: 43
      0
      Quote: bot.su
      What is not enough? Heat milk tea? This is enough for a year. Well, if cooking add, then for six months

      what half a year? !!! 2-3 months and this despite the fact that tea is on electricity
      Quote: bot.su
      let the kids 10

      Well, not everyone is fed, besides not at a time milk is heated to a fresh state, the kids are not 10, 13-17 per lamb
  4. The comment was deleted.
  5. Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 3 August 2013 15: 45
    0
    Quote: bot.su
    I wonder what source you’re powered from now. And what streams do you have nearby so that the mini-hydro power plant can start to try

    through the stabilizer from the network, we’ve been battling with power engineers for a year and a half, we hope that we’ll press on a new substation.
    What streams do you have nearby in order to launch a mini-hydro power plant?



  6. nerd.su
    nerd.su 3 August 2013 18: 22
    0
    Well here without a dam without a chance. And the dam, even a small one, is the same hydraulic structure. The ice drift is not terrible, but permissions, design and construction will fly into such a pretty penny with nerves. You have to squeeze the power engineers ...
  7. Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 3 August 2013 18: 24
    0
    and I didn’t even think of building a hydroelectric power station, for today, the costs of ANY alternative prodigy will be paid off no earlier than in 10-20 years, and therefore pointless
  • abrakadabre
    abrakadabre 2 August 2013 10: 13
    0
    This is a discussion of a spherical horse in a vacuum. Not seeing a particular stream, not counting its capabilities, our assessments are pure verbiage.
    I can only say that for a stream that can provide no more than two bulbs and a refrigerator, talking about ice drift as a universal problem can only be an anecdote.
    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 2 August 2013 13: 29
      0
      Quote: abrakadabre
      I can only say that for a stream that can provide no more than two bulbs and a refrigerator, talking about ice drift as a universal problem can only be an anecdote

      but for this garden generally makes no sense
  • Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 31 July 2013 11: 27
    +1
    apparently you really don't understand the topic
    1 mountain reggae do not freeze
    2 power in the mountain river and in the plain is different
    3 we will not take the power that the generator gave to the output
    1. ed65b
      ed65b 31 July 2013 11: 48
      0
      We don’t actually sit at a hydropower seminar. And share thoughts and opinions.
      I just gave an example of how people use their wit and hands in the right direction. It turned out beautifully in the sense of not building design but life. Light receives half of the village for free, the power engineers are left with a nose. the second half of the village is envious of the first.
      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 31 July 2013 14: 13
        +1
        Quote: ed65b
        We don’t actually sit at a hydropower seminar. And share thoughts and opinions.

        well, if so, let's dream about wireless power transmission, or we’ll discuss some other kind of wunderflake thread, we are discussing specific technical problems
      2. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 31 July 2013 14: 26
        0
        not too lazy rummaged in nete
        The approximate cost of hydro generators is $ 1000 per 1 kW of power, that is, a modern house will cost you $ 20000 based on the current rate your plant will pay for itself for 20 years.
        1. abrakadabre
          abrakadabre 1 August 2013 15: 33
          0
          This is you in the first approximation.
          In general, it is generally accepted that 1 kW for such units costs about 700 bucks.
          And only with an increase in installation capacity of more than 30-50 kW drops to 400-550 bucks per 1 kW.
          1. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 1 August 2013 15: 35
            0
            and if you consider that for the NORMAL functioning of the house you need 15-20 kW, then it turns out not to be profitable.
            it's wonderful when fishing threw in a stream watching TV catch fish
            1. abrakadabre
              abrakadabre 2 August 2013 10: 32
              0
              If we seriously engage in energy efficiency of home ownership, then there are a lot of reserves for saving there.
              For example, if there is a large heat loss in the building, then consider the atmosphere is heated. So there, and 100-200 kW can swell without a significant effect.
      3. KazaK Bo
        KazaK Bo 31 July 2013 20: 07
        0
        Quote: ed65b
        gave an example of how people use ingenuity and hands in the right direction

        And I suggest an alternative - switch to birch torches ... There will be a class - no environmental pollution ... nor ... in general, just think about how many advantages ...
        1. zardoz
          zardoz 1 August 2013 05: 59
          0
          Isolation of CO2 and various other combustion products ...
    2. abrakadabre
      abrakadabre 2 August 2013 10: 18
      0
      1. I am in the subject. Mountain rivers are different. They do not freeze more, but they become very shallow. Smaller ones are even freezing. Every winter I climb with frozen waterfalls with friends.
  • Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 31 July 2013 11: 36
    +2
    Quote: ed65b
    a man in Dagestan built a mini hydroelectric power station

    in addition, in that village there was no other way out for them, because of the remoteness, they could not conduct power lines
  • uhu189
    uhu189 1 August 2013 14: 40
    0
    And you can give a link to information on this guy? What kind of generator did he build, how does he keep the frequency during load surges, how does he compensate for voltage dips, how does he drain excess water, and how much power does his "village floor" consume? And how does he protect this generator from short-circuit if something happens - does he have a 0,4 kV RU? And he threw air lines in the village, how does it synchronize with the network? Is this all in Dagestan? It just became interesting, I work with the power industry ... Such equipment will amount to several hundred thousand rubles, this is not counting the cost of operating all this stuff ...
  • abrakadabre
    abrakadabre 1 August 2013 15: 17
    0
    So with the right approach, mini-hydro is a very good thing. Keyword - CORRECT approach.
    1. Your current average peak consumption is calculated. Pretending the possible necessary power reserve for the future. Maybe in a year you’ll want to put a machine in a barn there.
    Find out the maximum summer and minimum winter water flow in your creek.
    2. The difference in water. A few (3-6) meters are desirable. Although there are quite effective low-pressure (up to 1,5-2 meters) turbines.
    3. Based on all this, the possible power is calculated.
    4. If a compromise of your appetites and possibilities of the stream is found, a station of the required capacity is sought for sale.
    5. The main installation options: put a gateway (mini-dam) on a stream or make a water intake and a water pipe along the shore with a large diameter pipe. In the case of a dam, do an emergency discharge, for example, in the event of a catastrophic rainfall upstream. In the case of a water main, at the fence line, place the trap grate and gate valve for emergency shut-off of the flow and repairs, immediately after it is a small pool for sand settling. Next, at the entrance to the water conduit, another valve. The water conduit can be made of variable cross-section from larger to smaller. This is to increase the flow rate before being fed to the turbine.
    6. Below mount the turbine with a generator and all the automation.
    7. At the exit from the turbine, a massive flow damper so that the soil does not erode. And rushing there is great even at 2-3 meters of height difference.
    8. Finally, having extinguished the power of the flow at the outlet, discharge water into the mainstream.
    9. When designing this entire structure, consider the depth of freezing of the stream. This is if you want it to work in the winter.

    briefly on fingers all
    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 1 August 2013 15: 28
      0
      at the output we get again the cost of energy such that all this is not necessary in FIG, the exception is the case when the laying of power lines is impossible, as was the case with that man from Dagestan, but there their station only gave light, you can’t dream of other amenities
  • AVV
    AVV 1 August 2013 14: 29
    0
    Alternatives to a decent nuclear power plant are not expected in the near future, on the contrary, more advanced units will be developed including fast neutrons!
  • uhu189
    uhu189 1 August 2013 14: 33
    0
    And the power of such generators do not tell me? And what speed of water flow are they designed for? After all, you will not throw them into any river, but if you throw them, then this power is enough for you only on the refrigerator and a light in the toilet - and that’s all ... and no kettles, chandeliers, heaters, washing machines and other things ... And also ABP with network will have to do ...
    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 1 August 2013 14: 37
      0
      they have a power of about 1.2 kW, there are characteristics for the difference in water heights, the cost of the unit is ~ $ 1000
    2. abrakadabre
      abrakadabre 1 August 2013 15: 41
      0
      Power from 500 W (portable) to the Sayano-Shushenskaya
      Approximate classification:
      micro-hydroelectric power stations - up to several tens of kW
      mini-hydroelectric power stations - up to hundreds of kW (I don’t remember the exact bar)
      small hydropower plants - several MW (up to tens)
      and just hydropower plants - all that more.

      By design, low-pressure and high-pressure are distinguished (energy-profi correct). Low-pressure portable can work even with a drop of water a little more than a meter, but relatively more expensive in themselves.
  • Trapperxnumx
    Trapperxnumx 31 July 2013 09: 11
    +4
    Honestly, it's very nice that like this, on a sly, while in Europe the garbage is suffering, our engineers and designers are doing their job. Prosralipolymerschik my "fiii"))))
  • Deniska
    Deniska 31 July 2013 09: 40
    0
    The platform is good, but it would be possible to build nuclear icebreakers as well, and in which case the icebreaker can be adapted to the shore for energy supply. This is of course more expensive but for the photo it would be more effective. Provided if you consider the application of the conditions of our north.
    1. Alez
      Alez 31 July 2013 10: 02
      +4
      The cost increase at times will occur. Everything should work as intended. Icebreaker chopping ice, shoot weapons, nuclear power plants generate electricity.
  • Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 31 July 2013 09: 41
    +3
    unfortunately, there is no real alternative to nuclear power today, the cost of windmills and solar panels is sky-high and it makes sense to install them only where it’s simply not economically or technically possible to extend power lines, and if we take into account the climatic features of the Russian Federation and its latitude, then solar energy over a large area for a long time will not be relevant
    1. Pacifist
      Pacifist 31 July 2013 09: 52
      +4
      In addition, greens are not very friendly with mathematics and only see what they want. The ecological purity of alternative energy sources is a utopia, a myth. If you analyze the production cycle of installations for alternative energy production, you get a very unsightly picture. In many cases, the harm from the production of so-called "environmentally friendly" energy production facilities outweighs the harm caused to this ecology by traditional technologies. Not to mention the completely unacceptable efficiency of alternative energy production methods. The only real alternative is hydrogen energy, but not in the form of idiocy such as electrolysis, but by methods of direct production of hydrogen in seismically active zones and drilling methods in zones of formation of hydrogen lenses. Unfortunately, cars of facts proving their existence by official science are completely ignored. But in vain.
      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 31 July 2013 10: 27
        +1
        Quote: Pacifist
        In addition, the greens are not very friendly with mathematics and see only what they want.

        Yes, some on this branch are not friends with mathematics and logic
      2. abrakadabre
        abrakadabre 1 August 2013 15: 44
        0
        Just the same idiocy like electrolysis is very viable. For example, Iceland is slowly moving towards the fact that geothermal stations do electrolysis and export hydrogen.
        Another thing is that such a freebie is far from everywhere on Earth.
    2. ben gun
      ben gun 31 July 2013 10: 03
      +2
      Solar panels have an efficiency of 15% in my opinion or 24 percent. Work is underway to increase efficiency to 40 with a dashing interest (for us)))). But there is one minus to solar panels - they need to be cleaned of garbage once a week, otherwise the efficiency of the panel falls.
      And about the French project of submarine nuclear power plants it is curious - and how they want to service and repair them at a depth of 100 meters. And what a penny it will pour out? And another nuance, but where will the operators of this nuclear power plant live? fool I do not understand.
      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 31 July 2013 10: 29
        +3
        there besides the efficiency of hemorrhoids with batteries
        1. abrakadabre
          abrakadabre 1 August 2013 15: 47
          0
          The main hemorrhoids: daily fluctuations in illumination, weather fluctuations in illumination, pollution of panels, very low specific power from 1 sq.m.
          1. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 1 August 2013 15: 53
            0
            daily fluctuations just fall on the shoulders of the batteries
            1. abrakadabre
              abrakadabre 2 August 2013 10: 19
              0
              I agree. But still this is a problem. It increases if it becomes cloudy for a week.
      2. carbofo
        carbofo 31 July 2013 16: 16
        0
        15% is the maximum, up to 40% are single prototypes, as a rule for mass products of efficiency of 6-12%.
        1. lewerlin53rus
          lewerlin53rus 31 July 2013 17: 53
          +1
          Quote: carbofo
          In addition, the greens are not very friendly with mathematics and see only what they want

          For this they are very good friends with those who pay them for their shares, which are often given a political sweetheart.
  • pa_nik
    pa_nik 31 July 2013 09: 51
    0
    and where to go !? nowhere .. oil - bye bye !! request

    more details here .. http://aftershock.su/?q=node/33747

    We are already talking about the fact that atomic energy is not enough for everyone repeat and taking into account previously shut down and closed nuclear power plants in Europe and ExSocSt countries (under EU pressure), and sold fuel for nuclear power plants - it’s a matter of no reason! recourse
  • ed65b
    ed65b 31 July 2013 10: 00
    +1
    Installation of reactors on the seabed - the threshold of environmental disaster. sea ​​water is a pretty aggressive thing. The project is half dead.
  • ben gun
    ben gun 31 July 2013 10: 07
    +5
    And in Novosib, a test launch of a research nuclear reactor from which there WILL NOT be waste is being prepared, everything is subject to recycling and loading into the core in a new way. Closed loop.
    1. abrakadabre
      abrakadabre 1 August 2013 15: 48
      0
      It smells like a perpetual motion machine.
  • Valery Neonov
    Valery Neonov 31 July 2013 10: 55
    +6
    Quote: Pacifist
    the greens are not very friendly with math and see only what they want.

    I'm sorry, but the "greens" see what those who "dance the ball" will point out to them. And it seems to me not worth paying attention to them so closely. Science does not stand still, and all these "movements" so to speak are nothing more than puppets paid. hi Engines use, mind you, but what about the oars to be environmentally friendly ... request
    1. Shadowcat
      Shadowcat 31 July 2013 11: 14
      0
      Cutting down a tree is like killing a man, but oil is the remains of trees and they are lifted up to heaven by burning. lol
  • ed65b
    ed65b 31 July 2013 11: 11
    +1
    as soon as the cost of solar panels falls to an acceptable level, the first I’ll slap myself. In Buryatia there is a settlement where all houses consume solar energy, they heat it and use e-energy. so alternative email. energy is the future for us. Of course, the energy lobby will by all means resist the transition of the country's inhabitants to an alternative. Money will not be received, but for them it is the most important thing.
    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 31 July 2013 15: 32
      0
      Quote: ed65b
      as soon as the cost of solar panels falls to an acceptable level, the first I’ll slap myself.

      I think in the next five years this will not happen
      Quote: ed65b
      Of course, the energy lobby will by all means resist the transition of the country's inhabitants to an alternative
      do not exaggerate
  • vitek1233
    vitek1233 31 July 2013 11: 35
    0
    Hello! I have a question which of you would like to live near the nuclear power plant? Personally, I would not want to
    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 31 July 2013 13: 05
      0
      Quote: vitek1233
      Personally, I would not want to

      What is the reason?
      we are building nearby and I am very calm about this
      1. vitek1233
        vitek1233 31 July 2013 13: 46
        -1
        Chernobyl.
        1. Vasilenko Vladimir
          Vasilenko Vladimir 31 July 2013 15: 39
          +3
          and I can give another example of the Volga cascade, what harm it has done to the environment.
          You will be very surprised, but NPPs are the most environmentally friendly today, the main buzz is raised by green lobbying specific interests.

          and I would advise you to live near which thread of the CHP, that's where the pleasure (was visiting a friend)
    2. ziqzaq
      ziqzaq 31 July 2013 17: 35
      0
      Quote: vitek1233
      Hello! I have a question which of you would like to live near the nuclear power plant? Personally, I would not want to

      Well, I lived until they stopped in the 90s. It’s normal, the air in the city is clean for you, no smog, no burning, again, the work is highly qualified at the power plant. Now the gas is being burned, payment has increased .......
  • USNik
    USNik 31 July 2013 12: 16
    +2
    After numerous discussions and criticism of the nuclear power plants of the state, evaluating their prospects, they change their anger at mercy.
    And they just have nowhere to go crying After loud statements about the abandonment of nuclear power plants and the transition to "green" energy, the subsequent cutting of huge amounts (one wind turbine costs $ 2-4 million), the governments of Germany, France, Spain were forced to raise electricity prices for the population, because the cost of "renewable" electricity turned out to be several times higher than "nuclear". For example, the latest news from sunny Spain:
    Spain's solar energy is on the verge of bankruptcy ... government subsidies for the industry will drop from 7,5% in total revenue to 5,5%. This measure was considered necessary in order to combat the budget deficit, which in the electric power industry exceeds 25 million euros. Also, in August, electricity charges will increase by 3,2% ...
    http://russian.rt.com/article/12961
    In general, we smile and wave the "green" geyroppe good
  • spirit
    spirit 31 July 2013 13: 30
    +2
    And in Russia, our comrades want to introduce energy soldering, so say a minimum after which we will pay trridor expensive for electricity !!! air conditioners, tvs !! noooooo, hello 60ooooo !!!! laughing the public treasure will not help us)
  • tilovaykrisa
    tilovaykrisa 31 July 2013 14: 29
    0
    It’s high time it wasn’t possible to carry fuel oil to Sakhalin, but to deliver such Lomonosov.
  • asbaev
    asbaev 31 July 2013 14: 36
    +1
    While everyone is slowing down, it is necessary to develop at an accelerated pace, then let them have the slogan "Catch up and overtake"
  • Ivan79
    Ivan79 31 July 2013 15: 13
    +1
    I will not be afraid of this word, but as for nuclear energy, then here we are ahead of the rest!
    The future is stopudo for fast neutron reactors.
  • Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 31 July 2013 16: 01
    0
    Why barge not self-propelled? Is it not enough? It is necessary to throw overboard water-jet pipes with electric motors. And even though there’s a hundred times around the world, there’s enough fuel wink True, maybe this is what the authors fear ...
  • KG_patriot_last
    KG_patriot_last 31 July 2013 17: 10
    0
    A living being is a consumer of energy. The fact that a human being is not in doubt.
    And the more energy is available, the stronger and more successful is the society of living beings. The human brain has increased due to more stable food that has become available to him. And the current fabulously large amount of food has given people the opportunity to create without being distracted by obtaining food and destroying each other for energy (only a part of people specially trained for this are engaged in this). An even greater amount of energy would help mankind step further, mastering new planets, new knowledge, new technologies.

    But Europeans and Japanese, under pressure from the United States, decided to give up part of the energy. In the future, they probably want to force the whole world to do it, including the Chinese, Russians, and so on ... The United States endangered the world for mankind, leading it to a new world war, for the redistribution of energy, in this case oil and gas. Why do they need it? Probably to have no competitors in world domination.
  • leon-iv
    leon-iv 31 July 2013 18: 09
    -1
    It is NECESSARY to hang any green power engineers on the power transmission line so that it was not inconsistent. Schaub knew that something was mainly needed by industry, not by housewives.
  • KazaK Bo
    KazaK Bo 31 July 2013 20: 03
    0
    Nuclear energy is unlikely to be the future of mankind.
    Rather, the future should be sought in ideas to reduce the energy intensity of production. And in the distant future - energy based on new principles ... such as cold nuclear fusion instead of nuclear fission. To infinity, no matter how hard we try, we cannot introduce new energy capacities.
    The second replica - floating nuclear power plants is certainly a class! There are no words. Here is just one question - how will anti-terrorism security be ensured. In those wild and sparsely populated regions of the far north and east. Those who are familiar with the protection of nuclear power plants will understand me ... as they will understand the absurdity of the current guarantees that the developers of these wonders of science give.
    Well, the fact that nuclear power plants are being closed in Western Europe ... what can you do - Russia will again help out ... now we will help the West ... start supplying birch splinters! Look how much of this non-varietal wood grows. But as "green" will be happy!
  • Svetlana
    Svetlana 31 July 2013 21: 13
    0
    Quote: ed65b
    Installation of reactors on the seabed - the threshold of environmental disaster. sea ​​water is a pretty aggressive thing. The project is half dead.

    But if you compare a floating nuclear power plant with an underwater one, it looks like the underwater one is safer, because it’s calmer there, it’s less worrying about the sea, there’s no need to force water to cool it down (it will flow after the valves open), and it’s more difficult for terrorists to get to the bottom of the sea.
    1. abrakadabre
      abrakadabre 1 August 2013 15: 55
      0
      It is quite possible to drive this barge in tow in the likeness of a dock and block the entrance. After 20-30-50 years of normal operation, flood the dock and tug the unit to the disposal or reactor restart. It depends on how the project provides it.
      But what will "rust" at the bottom, and even under water pressure, is not visible from the surface. If something happens, then everything will immediately fall into the water and be carried over long distances. On the surface, it's much easier to look after.
  • Genady1976
    Genady1976 31 July 2013 21: 52
    0
    For example, France continues its policy and doesn’t even think about reducing the nuclear energy sector, Germany slows down the decommissioning of its nuclear power plants, and the UK intends to modernize or replace old power units with new ones. smile
    As I think the cheapest energy, or I'm wrong. what
  • Genady1976
    Genady1976 31 July 2013 22: 05
    +2
    To date, 10 nuclear power plants are operating in Russia (a total of 32 power units with an installed capacity of 24,2 GW), which generate about 16% of all electricity produced. At the same time, the share of nuclear energy in the European part of Russia reaches 30%, and in the North-West - 37%.



    According to the Federal Target Program “Development of the Russian Nuclear Energy Industry for 2007-2010 and the Future until 2015” and other documents by 2025, the share of electricity generated by nuclear power plants in the Russian Federation should increase from 16 to 25%. 26 new power units will be built, 6 nuclear power plants commissioned, two of which are floating.
    found in tryneti repeat
  • vlum
    vlum 1 August 2013 16: 48
    0
    Quote: Pacifist
    direct hydrogen production methods in seismically active zones and drilling methods in the zones of formation of hydrogen lenses. Unfortunately, the cars of facts proving their existence by official science are completely ignored. But in vain.


    For a general acquaintance with the topic - tell me, pzhl, where to read about it?
    1. abrakadabre
      abrakadabre 2 August 2013 10: 21
      0
      And me!!!! And give me a reference too !!!
  • jungler
    jungler 2 August 2013 10: 23
    0
    Normal article, good discussions. Only there is a significant BUT. Uranus on planet Earth is over. Almost all has been exhausted. Therefore, countries that rely on nuclear power are at great risk. Merkel is not a fool at all, having closed nuclear power in Germany. Yes. There are technologies in the Russian Federation on fast neutrons. BUT. for some reason the Academy of Sciences is against it. It’s clear - the goal is commercial. spin fast neutrons and uranium will become like garbage. The price is a penny. A deficit is beneficial to the oligarchy.
    1. abrakadabre
      abrakadabre 2 August 2013 10: 33
      0
      Sounds pretty pessimistic. Determination of the remaining amount of uranium on Earth, I would leave to geologists :)
    2. zardoz
      zardoz 2 August 2013 11: 53
      0
      Did you mean new proven reserves of industrial importance? For the available reconnaissance is enough from a hundred years at the current level of production. And damn Russia a rather big country-will find if necessary.
  • alone
    alone 2 August 2013 23: 28
    +1
    so the fact was that the exploration of new reserves requires a waste of money. and our officials do not like to spend money, as you know. We’d like to appropriate this money))
    1. zardoz
      zardoz 3 August 2013 00: 29
      0
      Well, there’s the other side of the coin :) You can also snatch a bit on intelligence :) and on the next one too ... So, I think there will be no problems with that. But the fact that there is no demand for increased production is another matter. Now the demand for the oil and gas industry. Geologists work tirelessly there. Well, along the way, they can still find Che.
  • gridasov
    gridasov 4 August 2013 22: 53
    0
    It is worth distinguishing the discussion about industrial production of e-mail. energy, and this is not at all what it is to produce for individual needs. There is simply no alternative to the so-called nuclear power industry. Apparently only smart people can balance the balance of how much and what needs to be turned into something to get what is called. el energy. Now humanity is on the path of the vector of self-destruction. Everyone understands that only consuming and nothing can not be revived. This cannot go on forever. Moreover, one always needs to know that the process of worsening the situation is not stable in its development. This process is accelerating. Therefore, what is being modeled and what will happen in 25 years will happen, in a maximum of two to three years. The conclusion is that, first, someone must come up with a method, method and device that will not embody a perpetual motion machine, but that will change the polarization vector of the physical dynamic process in the other direction. Now we can say that only we have such technology and device. This method and device allows you to make it radioactive, which means to turn any solid matter into an object with polarized parts. The density of magnetic force flows in such a process is completely controllable. This means that the reactor, as such, is not an object with respect to the static interaction of the parts of the reaction, but completely different physical ones. dynamic processes.
  • studentmati
    studentmati 4 August 2013 23: 49
    0
    Nuclear energy is the most efficient energy industry for the next 100 years !!!
  • studentmati
    studentmati 5 August 2013 03: 38
    0
    Before launching, such a power plant will be delivered to the right place a few kilometers from the coast, laid on the seabed at a depth of about 60-100 meters and fixed there.

    The cost of maintenance and operation under water is much more expensive than a floating nuclear power plant.

    And the consequences of an underwater terrorist bombing?