Military Review

SWAT, not knowing victories: American "Delta Force"

281
SWAT, not knowing victories: American "Delta Force"

There is no error in the title of the article. The most expensive, most pretentious detachment of special forces in the world - the American "Delta Force" - "Force Delta" - is also the most unsuccessful and inglorious.


It all went to hell - US President Jimmy Carter swore and hung up. He can be understood: he has just received a report that the operation of the special forces authorized by him on the territory of a sovereign foreign country ended in failure. And now he himself was threatened with failure in the next presidential election.

It all started on 4 in November 1979. A group of students from Tehran University, outraged by Washington’s illegal actions, took over the US Embassy in Tehran, taking 53 hostage by its employee. In exchange for the freedom of the hostages, the students demanded that President Carter issue the fugitive Iranian shah and return the wealth stolen by the shah. When the American government became convinced that no diplomatic settlement measures (i.e., threats and blackmail) had any effect on Tehran, it was decided to use their fists.

SWAT, not knowing victories

Iranians were instructed to supervise the US military super elite, the Delta special forces unit under the command of Colonel Charles Beckwith, a “tough guy,” as if descended from a Hollywood action movie about Rambo. A veteran of Vietnam, "green beret", hung with medals from neck to waist, Bequit created with his own hands and prepared "Delta" in spite to his rival colleagues, the British special forces from the 22 Special Airborne Service regiment - 22SAS, the legendary detachment that has many brilliant victories.

“Charlie,” said Brigadier Calvert, the 22SAS commander, gently, visiting Delta, “I'm afraid your guys have too many muscles.” .. No matter how it affects the head.

Beckwith preferred not to hear Calvert's podnka (well, of course, the Yankees are the coolest!), But in vain.

... Operation Eagle Claw began on 24 on April 1980 of 8 of the Stallion transport assault helicopters CH-53 and the same AN-6 attack aircraft launched from the deck of the aircraft carrier Forrestal cruising in the Persian Gulf and headed for the point Desert-1 is an abandoned English airfield halfway to Tehran. Soon, they were joined by 8 transport aircraft C-130 "Hercules" with paratroopers and additional fuel on board, taking off from the airfield on. Masirah (Oman). Since the range of the helicopters was insufficient, in the "desert-1" they had to refuel with the "Hercules" and take on board the paratroopers. Then the helicopters flew to the point “desert-2” - the old salt mines in 80 km from Tehran. According to the plan of the operation, on the night of April 26, the special forces, with fire support from AN-6, were to take the embassy by storm, release the hostages and retreat to Tehran stadium with them, from where the stallions would take the whole company.

- 50 on 50 - if the equipment and people will work as it should, - appreciated the plan mentioned above Brigadier Calvert.

Did not work. For starters, one "Stallion" crashed into the water right at the side of the aircraft carrier. The second got lost in the dark and chose to return. The third sat on a forced landing in the desert. Thus, without a single shot, the group of transport helicopters was reduced to a dangerous limit: in order to take out all the hostages and paratroopers, Beckwith needed a minimum of 4 CH-53, and this taking into account possible losses from anti-aircraft fire. In the meantime, the lining continued to pile up one on another ...

Intelligence swore and swore that “desert-1” is really desert, that is, a completely deserted place. In reality, it turned out that a busy highway passes nearby! The nerves of the "supermen", apparently, have already begun to take, because the delto workers have not invented anything smarter than how to shoot a fuel tanker passing by in order to block the road. A rising pillar of flame was visible from a distance of 70 km! If the neighboring Iranian garrisons up to this point slept the sleep of the righteous, then the fire made by the Americans just tore them from their beds. Moreover, the driver of the fuel truck managed to escape on a passing car. Deltowers chased him on mopeds, but did not catch up, fired at, but did not hit. The reality looked less and less like a Hollywood advertising action movie ...

Meanwhile, work was in full swing at the aerodrome. When refueling the helicopters, it turned out that the hoses were rather short, and since the detachments, of course, were not at the disposal of the detachment, the helicopters had to taxi to the tanker aircraft on their own. At the same time, one of the “stallions” blades of its screw slashed through the “Hercules” fuel tank ...

Now the flame was visible, probably even from Tehran! Both cars burned to the ground along with the crews (8 dead), 4 paratrooper received severe burns. For the thin nervous system of the American Rambo, this turned out to be a drop that filled the cup. Before the eyes of the “coolest guys in the world”, an armored vehicle gathering dust from the airfield was already standing, and the Iranian motor-mechanized infantry with a six-year experience of the hardest war, armored in Iran, didn’t smile - it’s not for students to shoot. Grinding his teeth, Colonel Beckwith ordered to throw the helicopters and reel the fishing rods.

No sooner said than done. The Yankee's Mandrazh clearly turned into a real panic by now, because during the hasty flight no one even took care of burning serviceable helicopters! So they got the Iranian army - with weapons, top-secret instruments and equally secret documents of the operation "Eagle Claw" - for the fun of the whole world. So, again, President Carter can be understood ...

Beckwith for this failure ahead of time sent to retire, but the luck "Delta" is not added. Again and again, with surprising consistency, Beckwith's pets managed to fail the tasks assigned to them. They were beaten in Asia, Africa and Latin America; in Europe they didn’t beat just because Delta wasn’t involved there. After another failure in Grenada, the American commander, General Norman Schwarzkopf, publicly vowed that he would not agree to use Delta in any operations led by him! However, when the time came to invade Iraq, the general was forced to connect the Delta to the search for Iraqi ballistic missiles, presumably in order to rehabilitate the many times defiant special forces. Reluctantly, Schwarzkopf agreed - and the deltoists brilliantly confirmed his point: the only raid with their participation ended in another defeat ...

At one time, the author of these lines commanded the marine special forces reconnaissance group - divers, saboteurs, or, streamlined, "combat swimmers." In the midst of the “perestroika”, our opponents-colleagues arrived in our unit with an unofficial friendly visit - American combat swimmers from the US Navy SEAL, a multiply advertised group of special forces, “seals”. The program of the visit provided for the holding, so to speak, of a friendly match - shooting, orienteering and overcoming the obstacle course. And nothing happened!

The funniest thing happened on orienteering. The guys came to us with their GPS gadgets, and according to the conditions of the competition, each team - ours and the American - was only supposed to have a map and a compass. Both squads landed from helicopters at a point unknown to them in advance; They had to compare their map and terrain, determine their location and make a forced march to the meeting point. In our detachment, such assignments were bodyblade that had been over the edge of everything; the matter is so simple that I trusted ordinary soldiers to determine the terrain on the ground - I was tired of this game a long time ago, it’s all the same that I reread the old book for the tenth time. So, "seals" managed to get lost immediately. And instead of moving along the route, our group had to look for these pseudo-supermen in the coastal taiga, so that, God forbid, they did not bend from hunger or catch the eye of the soldiers of the Interior Ministry troops or border guards - both those and other people are special, sharply sharpened to fight and shoot without reflection. And rightly so.

When we found the "seals", they looked, to put it mildly, guilty. The visit program had to be crumpled and quickly completed in the simplest way - joint drinking.
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  1. Northkg
    Northkg 27 July 2013 07: 44 New
    50
    They are only so cool in the media.
    1. psdf
      psdf 27 July 2013 12: 37 New
      32
      It’s only in real life our so cool.
      But in the media and on the Internet, they do us as they want.
      1. KG_patriot_last
        KG_patriot_last 27 July 2013 14: 37 New
        20
        They were still in Somalia in the very operation ...
      2. AVV
        AVV 27 July 2013 19: 52 New
        39
        Hollywood troops !!! Laughter and more! Author 5 s + !!!
        1. AVV
          AVV 27 July 2013 20: 10 New
          +5
          This is who, this is such a zealous admirer of the delta write your nickname!
          1. s1н7т
            s1н7т 27 July 2013 20: 53 New
            23
            Quote: AVV
            Who is this, such a zealous delta fan

            Colonel Beckwith Retired laughing laughing laughing
            1. Megatron
              Megatron 28 July 2013 00: 39 New
              +3
              As many as 6 colonels, and (or) their liquid friends.
              1. The comment was deleted.
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. ded10041948
            ded10041948 28 July 2013 20: 58 New
            +1
            Incognito from around the corner is more convenient to yap!
        2. Patriot.ru.
          Patriot.ru. 28 July 2013 22: 45 New
          -14
          Funny troops. Like PETRA.
          1. Ghenxnumx
            Ghenxnumx 30 July 2013 16: 22 New
            14
            Quote: Patriot.ru.
            Funny troops. Like PETRA.

            Well-trained Semenovsky and Petrovsky regiments came out of the "amusing troops" - therefore, a minus for the comparison.
            1. Gomunkul
              Gomunkul 1 August 2013 15: 44 New
              +6
              ... and Petrovsky regiments
              Do you want to say Preobrazhensky? hi
        3. kavkaz8888
          kavkaz8888 2 August 2013 20: 15 New
          +2
          The “Hollywood troops” are cool, wildly!
      3. angarchanin
        angarchanin 28 July 2013 18: 57 New
        +2
        About the media and the Internet: no matter what the child is amusing, just not cry. Let them think about “steepness”, but we know that only eggs are cool (if they are not prematurely turned into a “crumple”)
    2. egor 1712
      egor 1712 27 July 2013 18: 48 New
      +7
      No, they are heroes in the distance and then in front of women and children
    3. starshina78
      starshina78 27 July 2013 19: 01 New
      +1
      In - in! And in action movies, to bring fear and horror, but in reality - it turns out - zilch!
    4. _Forgiven_
      _Forgiven_ 28 July 2013 00: 07 New
      +5
      And in expensive action movies where the Delta squad saves an African country from the Ebola virus epidemic)))
      1. Gemar
        Gemar 28 July 2013 03: 31 New
        10
        Delta Fars. wassat
    5. a52333
      a52333 29 July 2013 08: 37 New
      +4
      But they have good directors. lol
      1. yak69
        yak69 30 July 2013 19: 11 New
        +4
        In my youth, I read a book by an American author about THEIR war of 41-45 years. They fought on some islands. I don’t remember the details badly, but the mood of Amer’s fighters and their attitude to the war, their reasoning, crashed into my memory. In short: despondency, apathy, fear, irritation, constant nervousness, endless pessimism. That’s all their militancy. They really know how to fight only with the weak. They will run from the strong. American for sr * ntsy!
        1. Ghenxnumx
          Ghenxnumx 30 July 2013 21: 22 New
          +6
          Quote: yak69
          In my youth, I read a book by an American author about THEIR war of 41-45 years. They fought on some islands. I don’t remember the details badly, but the mood of Amer’s fighters and their attitude to the war, their reasoning, struck into memory. In short: despondency, apathy, fear, irritation, constant nervousness, endless pessimism. That’s all their militancy.

          Judging by the description, this is the "Thin Red Line" by James Jones, it was also used to shoot a film in the 90s - everything as you described a solid depresnyak and pessimism. hi
          1. fzr1000
            fzr1000 1 August 2013 13: 00 New
            +1
            A movie is good. Without any ameropathy and pseudo-heroism. Everyday death, fear, blood and fatigue.
  2. lewerlin53rus
    lewerlin53rus 27 July 2013 07: 51 New
    26
    Well, these lucky people are lucky. In the sense that they did not have to cross our battle with our special forces. And then they simply would cease to exist.
    1. Chaplain
      Chaplain 27 July 2013 12: 20 New
      +8
      Not officially, met in Afghanistan, sort of, and not only with them, as I believe. wink
      1. Rider
        Rider 27 July 2013 12: 29 New
        +5
        Quote: ChapelN
        and not only with them as I suppose.


        wrong think.

        the fact is that in our Agan, we were actively looking for Western instructors in order to prove foreign participation in the war.
        even the Hero was promised to those who caught it. how many tales about it were added up.

        but alas, the reward remained unclaimed.
        1. roninas
          roninas 27 July 2013 23: 14 New
          10
          Crossed, crossed ... the same reconnaissance groups of Alpha and Vympel, when they were running in. Once, having stumbled on the "day" of another's reconnaissance group, they threw grenades (were on top) and only then they began to sort it out.
    2. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 27 July 2013 20: 44 New
      +2
      why in the game "delta force" as many laughing
    3. s1н7т
      s1н7т 27 July 2013 20: 55 New
      +1
      Quote: lewerlin53rus
      that they didn’t have to cross our battle with our special forces

      This, in general, is logical, because special forces have more important tasks.
      1. Hleb
        Hleb 27 July 2013 23: 01 New
        0
        and Delta not special forces chtoli? tasks "more important")
    4. aksai61
      aksai61 1 August 2013 23: 04 New
      +3
      wink I was thinking that after meeting with motorized rifle guys with experience in the Chechen war, they ceased to exist soldier
    5. aksai61
      aksai61 1 August 2013 23: 05 New
      +2
      wink I was thinking that after meeting with motorized rifle guys with experience in the Chechen war, they ceased to exist soldier
  3. Krapovy32
    Krapovy32 27 July 2013 07: 55 New
    39
    I neighing, seals got lost with a compass and a map :)
    1. il grand casino
      il grand casino 27 July 2013 08: 21 New
      11
      Well, they didn’t have GPS B-)))))
      1. Joker
        Joker 27 July 2013 12: 54 New
        33
        Well, recently, because there was news about the 4-day campaign in the Netherlands in my opinion, there were also our airborne troops and there were other fighters from different countries. So amers ached like hell such a march throws if I can get in a helicopter and fly)) Also from the same opera as ZhPS laughing
    2. datur
      datur 27 July 2013 15: 12 New
      +5
      [quote = Krapovy32] I neighing, the fur seals got lost with a compass and a map :) because there were no pointers and zhps !!!! belay laughing
    3. sasha127
      sasha127 27 July 2013 15: 41 New
      +4
      A compass and a map is not a ZhPS which can speak to pleasant female voices, then turn right and then left.
    4. s1н7т
      s1н7т 27 July 2013 21: 06 New
      +3
      Quote: Speckled32
      I neighing, seals got lost with a compass and a map :)

      Not surprisingly, they and the “rangers” are weak in orientation.
      1. Lavr75
        Lavr75 28 July 2013 23: 56 New
        13
        And not only in orientation, but also in orientation
    5. 311ove
      311ove 27 July 2013 21: 28 New
      11
      No, well, they are marine, oriented max. in the surf and among beach umbrellas .... After that incident, urgently created units of forest, city, village and other fur seals)))))
      1. Ivan.
        Ivan. 3 August 2013 01: 36 New
        +1
        Quote: 311ove
        After that incident, urgently created units of forest, city, village and other seals)

        Rather, rename these “seals” into “meow” fighting pussies.
        When we found the "seals", they looked, to put it mildly, guilty. The visit program had to be crumpled and quickly completed in the simplest way - joint drinking.

        To care for their alcohol, we understand our kittens spared kittens.
    6. ded10041948
      ded10041948 28 July 2013 21: 01 New
      +2
      They are "sea", and the cunning Russians slipped them land cards!
    7. Bear52
      Bear52 29 July 2013 21: 33 New
      +2
      Krapovy32
      I neigh
      Ya also cried, Kamrad !!!! drinks angry fellow
    8. _Igor_
      _Igor_ 30 July 2013 08: 04 New
      +6
      they are also accustomed to navigate under the water in place: along the great barrier reef, the Mariana Trench with the active use of GPS, besides they didn’t bring them orientation by helicopters, they shot and flew away (although I also watch straining to fly with them). in general, it’s good that they have everything in the movies, but in life it’s superfluous for them)))
  4. bazilio
    bazilio 27 July 2013 08: 50 New
    25
    Interesting article. And before I heard that things were not sticking at the delta.
    But I think you should not relax. it’s better to overestimate than underestimate the likely "friend"
    1. Santa Fe
      Santa Fe 28 July 2013 11: 05 New
      -22
      Quote: bazilio
      Interesting article.

      The author embellished events a little

      Failures in the operation followed from the very beginning, mainly due to dust storms and equipment breakdowns. For a successful operation, 6 helicopters were needed. Of the 8 departing for the mission, one was thrown on the road due to a possible breakdown of the blade, another was lost in the storm and turned back. Only six helicopters reached a temporary base in the desert. The location chosen for the temporary base turned out to be a busy highway, as a result of which the operation was immediately unmasked. The commandos blocked the intercity bus with passengers and blew up an Iranian fuel truck passing by, the passenger of which died, and the driver disappeared in a passing car.

      On one of the helicopters that reached the base, they found a problem with hydraulics, after which it was decided to cancel the operation and leave Iran. However, when refueling, one of the helicopters crashed into a tanker plane, and eight crew members died in a subsequent fire. As a result, all helicopters were thrown into the desert (after which they transferred to the Iranian army), the corpses of pilots and other crew members, secret documentation for the operation. All surviving participants in the operation were evacuated on the remaining helicopters. The operation ended in complete failure.

      On the other hand, given the high complexity and high risk of the operation, it is unlikely that anyone else would have acted better. Beslan, Dubrovka, Buddenovsk - which is better?
      1. Corsair
        Corsair 28 July 2013 12: 20 New
        20
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Beslan, Dubrovka, Buddenovsk - which is better?

        About Beslan and Dubrovka we can say that the "specialists" worked them out on 5 , given the conditions and complexity (WHO и WHEN conducted similar operations?).
        In Budenovsk, the weak-willed political leadership of the state did not dare to take active steps and ... it turned out what happened.
        1. Santa Fe
          Santa Fe 28 July 2013 16: 03 New
          -17
          Quote: Corsair
          In Budyonovsk, the same weak-willed political leadership

          "Shamil Basayev, speak louder!" (someone from the Kremlin - remember this shot on TV?)
          Quote: Corsair
          About Beslan and Dubrovka we can say that the "specialists" worked them out on 5

          Sorry, but this is a blatant and rather awkward lie.

          300 + children are dead, 800 are wounded - if Alpha did nothing, the result would be similar. Operation completely failed
          Quote: Corsair
          (WHO and WHEN conducted such operations?).

          Naturally, the Eagle Claw and the liberation of the school in Beslan were MANDATORY impossible operations, they were doomed to failure and heavy losses

          Delta and Alpha did everything they could, but the situation was against them. Therefore, laughing at the failure of the Delta in Iran is the same as making fun of Alpha’s actions in Beslan or Dubrovka. The guys did everything they could, but everything turned out to be useless
          1. Rider
            Rider 28 July 2013 16: 33 New
            15
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            Delta and Alpha did everything they could, but the situation was against them ... The guys did everything they could, but everything turned out to be useless



            I'm sorry, but here you are fundamentally wrong.

            if failure in Grenada can still be attributed to the OPPOSITION of the enemy.
            then a fiasco in Iran THIS IS A COMPLETE SUITABILITY, SUMMING WITHOUT PLANNING.
            and you can’t write off it and hide it in opposition to the enemy in Grenada, Beslan and Dubrovka.
            if their flyers without ZhiPiSi at night can not fly, and technicians normally prepare for the departure flight.
            Well, a collision of aircraft, you can’t write off the Fedaines.
            this is one of the few operations where one side has suffered losses and frustrated a task, WITHOUT COLLISION WITH AN ENEMY.

            take the recent "capture" of the ok benny, of course there is little information, but it’s already clear that they took the wrong one and suffered losses.
            This is precisely why they "wrote off" their specialists later.
            so that it doesn’t come out, WHO and HOW they took.
            1. Santa Fe
              Santa Fe 28 July 2013 17: 14 New
              -12
              Quote: Rider
              then a fiasco in Iran THIS IS A COMPLETE SUITABILITY, SUMMING WITHOUT PLANNING.

              As well as difficult weather conditions, and the general impracticability of the operation - 50 delta fighters could not operate effectively in the interior of Iran, in a situation where an enemy could be behind every stone. Everything was against them - time, weather, the enemy, inevitable equipment malfunctions
              Quote: Rider
              if failure in grenada

              And what happened in Grenada, do not remind?
              Quote: Rider
              if their flyers without ZhiPiSi cannot fly at night

              GPS has nothing to do with it. Even with the use of RSDN, flying with dust storms and the same desert landscape is extremely dangerous. Remember how many aircraft died in Afghanistan as a result of a loss of orientation.

              The same incident with the landing of Mi-8 - EMNIP, 1982 the year when a group of helicopters conducting the operation to destroy the base of Rabati-Jali, as a result of a navigational error, landed in Iran (there was a fierce battle)
              Quote: Rider
              Well, a collision of aircraft, you can’t write off the Fedaines.

              It happens. request
              In the spring of 1980, two Mi-8T from Kandahar also hit each other with screws and sat on a forced desert
              Quote: Rider
              this is one of the few operations where one side has suffered losses and frustrated a task, WITHOUT COLLISION WITH AN ENEMY

              Night landing at Bagram - Il-76 airport crashed into a mountain with a landing (December 1979)
              1. Rider
                Rider 28 July 2013 18: 17 New
                +5
                1 - if the weather and time, it’s still possible to write off the PART PART aside, then the small number and excuse "when behind every stone there could be an enemy."WELL NEVER influenced the mission.
                because THEY HAVE NOT REACHED THE ENEMY!laughing

                2 - about grenada, read my posts below.
                laziness will be repeated.

                3 - I will give you a quote from the article under discussion
                Intelligence swore and swore that "desert-1" is really a desert, that is, a completely deserted place. In reality, it turned out that a busy highway passes nearby!
                it looks like they were conducting a reconnaissance on a pack of Belomorian (more precisely, Kamel).
                what can I say that half of the turntables fornication where the hell.

                and about our mi-8 give a link, most interesting.

                4 - an example is also desirable (not that I would not believe you, this may not happen with us) but even so ...
                and again, we are talking about specialists whose training is unlike army fliers wink

                5 - but this is a clear juggling, you compared a normal accident and a special operation.
                1. Santa Fe
                  Santa Fe 28 July 2013 19: 00 New
                  -14
                  Quote: Rider
                  WELL NEVER influenced the mission.
                  because THEY HAVE NOT REACHED THE ENEMY!

                  Naturally, they finished fishing rods on time, as soon as everything went wrong
                  To act in such a situation is pure suicide
                  Quote: Rider
                  what can I say that half of the turntables fornication where the hell.

                  Only the 1 car from 8 lost its course, another one got on the emergency one. reasons
                  Quote: Rider
                  about grenada read my posts below.

                  Well I do not know, request the Yankees somehow took control
                  Quote: Rider
                  and about our mi-8 give a link, most interesting.

                  It’s a well-known story, Afghanistan has always been distinguished by a difficult navigation environment
                  http://military-kz.ucoz.org/news/sovetskoe_vtorzhenie_v_iran_v_aprele_1982_goda/


                  2012-07-10-2817
                  Quote: Rider
                  but this is a clear jerking, you compared a normal accident, and a special operation.

                  It was precisely SPECIAL OPERATION - landing by landing method and taking control of the Bagram airport. It was the first day of the Afghan war. and first losses
                  1. Rider
                    Rider 28 July 2013 19: 37 New
                    +4
                    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                    Naturally, they finished fishing rods on time, as soon as everything went wrong
                    To act in such a situation is pure suicide


                    that’s exactly what EVERYTHING IS NOT PLANNED.
                    and they could do nothing more.
                    which brings us to the conclusion - THIS IS COMPLETE SUITABILITY, PLUS LESS PLANNING.
                    the only thing they got was less successful - it’s washed off.
                    and even the working equipment was not destroyed, and the documents were not taken away.

                    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                    Only the 1 car from 8 lost its course, another one got on the emergency one. reasons


                    and another turned out to be faulty upon arrival at Desert 1.
                    as a result, having hit the tanker’s plane, one more burned down (both crews burned down)
                    the rest of the twirls were DROPPED.

                    As we see WITH SUCH LOSSES, there is nothing left to do except to be washed off.
                    (I’m just wondering what would happen if they were resisted, well, like a pair of mouths of the guard’s corps?)

                    on your link gives an information site, give a direct link.
                    and also by IL-76
                    1. Rider
                      Rider 28 July 2013 19: 53 New
                      +5
                      Quote: Rider
                      according to IL-76


                      on it is no longer necessary, he found it.

                      everything as I said, ACCIDENT.
                      our units were in the bagram by then

                      For the transportation of personnel and equipment of the 103rd Airborne Forces and a separate paratrooper regiment, 47 flights were completed in 343 hours: 66 flights An-22, 77 - Il-76, 200 - AN-12. During this time, 7700 personnel, 894 units of military equipment and 1062 tons of various cargoes were delivered.

                      as we see, it did not affect the operation.
                    2. Santa Fe
                      Santa Fe 28 July 2013 22: 44 New
                      -6
                      Quote: Rider
                      that’s exactly what EVERYTHING IS NOT PLANNED. and they could do nothing more.

                      In Beslan and Dubrovka, too, everything went NOT according to plan
                      And no one could do anything
                      Quote: Rider
                      and even the working equipment was not destroyed, and the documents were not taken away.

                      It is what it is. Screwed up

                      Quote: Rider
                      on your link gives an information site, give a direct link.
                      and also by IL-76

                      http://www.skywar.ru/Poteri1982
                      losses from April 5 1982 year
                      1. Rider
                        Rider 28 July 2013 23: 59 New
                        +6
                        In Bestalanen and on Dubrovka, everything also went NOT according to plan
                        And no one could do anything


                        I’ll insert my quote for you
                        then a fiasco in Iran THIS IS A COMPLETE SUITABILITY, SUMMING WITHOUT PLANNING.
                        and to counter the enemy in Grenada, Beslan and Dubrovka you can’t write off, and you can’t hide.

                        Well, I think you understand

                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN

                        It is what it is. Screwed up


                        also from laughing

                        I’ll give you a reference, there an intelligent person writes how it is and why, and what would happen if they reached Tehran.
                        http://perevodika.ru/articles/8508.html
                        (there is a footnote on the first part of the article)

                        read yourself agree that
                        THIS IS COMPLETE SUITABILITY, PLUS LESS PLANNING.
                      2. Rider
                        Rider 29 July 2013 00: 06 New
                        +1
                        SWEET_SIXTEEN

                        In Bestalanen and on Dubrovka, everything also went NOT according to plan
                        And no one could do anything


                        so it turns out that the Yankees only saved the storm, because in a similar situation, the Iranians were not afraid to pinch ours.

                        but in general, it would be desirable to learn more about this event, how it all worked out there.
                      3. Santa Fe
                        Santa Fe 29 July 2013 10: 31 New
                        -9
                        Quote: Rider
                        In Bestalanen and on Dubrovka, everything also went NOT according to plan
                        And no one could do anything

                        ... and his opposition to the enemy as in Grenada, Beslan and Dubrovka

                        Those. spetsnaz Delta flew to his grandmother for pies?
                        Flying into a dust storm, the collision of C-130 and Stelien are all consequences of the military situation. Time worked against them.
                        Quote: Rider
                        THIS IS COMPLETE SUITABILITY, PLUS LESS PLANNING.

                        How about Mogadishu-93?
                        Quote: Rider
                        so it turns out that the Yankees only saved the storm, because in a similar situation, the Iranians were not afraid to pinch ours.

                        Yes. The operation was obviously impossible.
                        Quote: Rider
                        but in general, it would be desirable to learn more about this event, how it all worked out there.

                        Article - tags for Yandex: Soviet invasion of Iran, mi-8, 1982
                      4. Rider
                        Rider 29 July 2013 12: 34 New
                        +7
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Those. spetsnaz Delta flew to his grandmother for pies?


                        I don’t know where he was flying, but I know for sure that THEY HAD LOSSES DON'T FACE AN OPPONENT, if you add sand and a lack of time to the “opponent” column, you have to recognize our snowthrowers as fighters of the Delta squad

                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        How about Mogadishu-93?


                        Well, so the time has passed, we have learned, learned, trained.
                        but then everything did not go smoothly.
                        don't you find?

                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Yes. The operation was obviously impossible.


                        but the fact is that they didn’t reach the enemy.
                        although it’s probably a pity, the Iranians would still have a bunch of hostages.
                        what a mockery of fate, the hostage release group itself was taken hostage.

                        and yes, by your tags:The loudest scandal was the unplanned Soviet invasion of
                        Iran. April 5, 1982 the command of the contingent of Soviet troops in
                        Afghanistan decided to destroy the base of Mujahideen Rabati-Jali. AT
                        "South" special operations involved 61 Mi-8 helicopters, 18 Mi-6 helicopters, aircraft
                        guidance, a battalion of paratroopers. However, due to navigation errors, everything
                        helicopters flew to Iran. According to one version, it carried there
                        glowing air bombs that served as a guide. The result is a helicopter
                        the landing was landed on Iranian territory, about 20 km from the border,
                        where he immediately destroyed the asphalt plant, which the special forces took
                        for the base of dushmans. Iran’s Foreign Ministry immediately sent a note of protest to the USSR,
                        Iranian Phantom F-4 fighters attack Soviet helicopters on the ground
                        and destroyed two Mi-8s. There were no casualties.


                        that's how our work.
                        Of course, it’s not worth taking pride in the defeat of an asphalt plant, but the turntables were lost FROM AN OPPONENT'S FIRE, and not because of headache.

                        but still read my reference, it’s more useful.
              2. Stasstoychev
                Stasstoychev 30 July 2013 10: 32 New
                +7
                and you don’t think that for every school in one Delta operation, you have to bring one school from the various operations of the Sov. (Russian) Arm. and various special forces units of different years and very different initial data. Such a comparison is at least not correct
          2. aviator_IAS
            aviator_IAS 28 July 2013 21: 54 New
            +4
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            As well as difficult weather conditions, and the general impracticability of the operation - 50 delta fighters could not operate effectively in the interior of Iran, in a situation where an enemy could be behind every stone. Everything was against them - time, weather, the enemy, inevitable equipment malfunctions


            The number of overlays exceeds all conceivable and unimaginable limits, even for a regular unit. And the special forces for this and the special forces to thoroughly work through the operation and prepare (with all the emergency options). Well, the weather and the wrong time of the year are generally referred last. Do they have a hydromet center that was closed for lunch or something? smile
          3. Lavr75
            Lavr75 29 July 2013 00: 09 New
            +3
            how many aircraft were killed in Afghanistan as a result of losing orientation.

            Orientations, not orientations, with orientations of our pilots are all well-100% men.
            By the way, the operation to destroy Ben Ladan is also considered a failure, in the absence of opposition from the enemy, they managed to lose one helicopter, did not take into account the presence of a fence during landing and hit the tail boom, although they had a satellite photo and they trained on a natural model. Part of the special forces remained on the other side of the fence. Nobody had any real opposition to them, there was no protection in the house, in fact they shot three people. This is despite the fact. that there was no fire resistance from the enemy. And under fire they would not have sat down at all, would have blocked their turntables on approach, Pakistan’s air defense simply allowed them to fly in and do what was needed.
          4. Begemot
            Begemot 30 July 2013 10: 03 New
            0
            the difference is that our tasks were carried out despite the losses.
        2. Sharingan
          Sharingan 29 July 2013 10: 14 New
          +1
          Quote: Rider
          if their flyers without ZhiPiSi at night can not fly, and technicians normally prepare for the departure flight.
          Well, a collision of aircraft, you can’t write off the Fedaines.


          And where does the Delta? Helicopters and their pilots were from the Marine Corps.
          1. Rider
            Rider 29 July 2013 12: 44 New
            +1
            Quote: Sharingan
            And where does the Delta? Helicopters and their pilots were from the Marine Corps.


            if you read this link, you will understand that the problem was complex.

            http://perevodika.ru/articles/8508.html
            (there is a footnote for the 1st part)
            1. Sharingan
              Sharingan 30 July 2013 09: 25 New
              +1
              Quote: Rider
              Quote: Sharingan
              And where does the Delta? Helicopters and their pilots were from the Marine Corps.


              if you read this link, you will understand that the problem was complex.

              http://perevodika.ru/articles/8508.html
              (there is a footnote for the 1st part)


              Poor operation planning. Only here are double standards: here in Beslan and Nord-Ost it means the weak-willed leadership is to blame, and they have Delta, which actually became the "hostages" of poor planning and preparation. Plus, our specialists work purely on their territory, and amers on enemy territory are thousands of kilometers from home.
      2. STALGRAD76
        STALGRAD76 29 July 2013 12: 23 New
        +2
        There is a huge retail between "die in battle" and suffer losses and return without joining the fray ....
      3. Babon
        Babon 29 July 2013 14: 40 New
        +5
        Actually, everything was done perfectly at Dubrovka, I myself was there on the day of the assault, why I know so many victims, there should have been much less, and neither Alpha nor Pennant had anything to do with it. There was no normal cordon in Beslan, the locals were very in the way, they used to appear with weapons, in general, the mess reigned complete, not like in Moscow. Their explosives hung on ordinary scotch tape in the windows, and from the heat could easily fall to the floor and detonate, the assault actually started, something exploded and after that it started, there was no special plan for the assault.
      4. Contrpropaganda
        Contrpropaganda 2 August 2013 12: 12 New
        0
        Quote: Corsair
        "Shamil Basayev, speak louder!" (someone from the Kremlin - remember this shot on TV?)

        What are we talking about. Syusyukali with the militants, instead of covering them in Chechen.


        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Sorry, but this is a blatant and rather awkward lie.

        Sorry, respected, but blatant and awkward lies come only from you.


        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        300+ children are dead, 800 injured - if Alpha hadn’t done anything, the result would have been similar.

        And here is an example of such a lie. If Alpha hadn’t done anything, the result would have been MUCH worse.
      5. Contrpropaganda
        Contrpropaganda 2 August 2013 12: 25 New
        0
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        300+ children are dead

        Another of your lies, dear. Killed 186 children.
        http://www.beslan.ru/index.php/remember_cat_sltd/category/svetlaya_pamyat/
    2. ded10041948
      ded10041948 28 July 2013 21: 05 New
      +4
      Plus, local deputies leaked information openly (by phone)!
  5. s1н7т
    s1н7т 28 July 2013 14: 25 New
    +5
    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
    Beslan, Dubrovka, Buddenovsk - which is better?

    Nothing worse. And what you want is capitalism, however! Under socialism, Alpha’s failures I don’t remember.
  6. Free Island
    Free Island 28 July 2013 16: 38 New
    +7
    you would have been asked for such a question by the colleagues of the guys who died in Beslan, who, unlike the American "specialists" who were always shitting their pants for fear of their own skin and comfort, saved many children with their lives, if they could have played football with you ... .can then it would become clear in your head what the actions in Beslan, Budenovsk and so on were better .. newspaper specialist
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 28 July 2013 18: 51 New
      -12
      Quote: Free Island
      you would have such a question to the fellow soldiers who died in Beslan, who, unlike the forever shitting in their pants from fear for their own skin and comfort of American "experts"

      And you know something about these specialists and their work in order to declare such nonsense. And yes - Beslan was a failure. As Dubrovka was a partial failure - the logistics part was completely failed there - gas neutralization and the removal of victims to hospitals.

      Heroism is what plugs someone’s neglect.
  7. obrjak
    obrjak 29 July 2013 22: 35 New
    +8
    And here Beslan, Dubrovka, and even more so Budenovsk ... There was no operation in Beslan, it was impossible. Around the angry, armed fathers, husbands of the hostages ... Well, which of you would let go to storm the mine school where your child, your wife ... I wouldn’t give it. Beslan is a jamb of authorities who couldn’t remove people from school.! On Dubrovka, the special forces worked perfectly! Not a single gunshot wound to the hostages, although there was a fire battle. The special forces weren’t actions, organization of loading poisoned, delivery and them to hospitals. Yes, after all! All the same, "alpha" is not an ambulance. And the authorities should have been doing this. It would have been possible to arrange interaction with the doctors. Once again, stay away! You don’t even need to talk about Budenovsk, and everything is clear. ..And in general, it’s impossible to compare these operations with the “delta” operation in Iran. It’s one thing to free hostages on your territory, another thing on the enemy’s ... Sending a company of even the most sophisticated special forces with the support of the embassy in the capital of the enemy state 6 helicopters (do not own information about the forces for involved in the operation) -Need to be a dumbfounded idiot, seen Rembo. I'm not a specialist in organizing special operations, but it’s clear that it smells like a military operation with the use of aircraft, like the assault on the palace of Amin. The fighters of the “delta” are here, and they were ready die! Otherwise, you didn’t fly!
  8. Baemaley99
    Baemaley99 30 July 2013 19: 23 New
    +1
    On the other hand, given the high complexity and high risk of the operation, it is unlikely that anyone else would have acted better. Beslan, Dubrovka, Buddenovsk - which is better?
    Here ours fought mainly with their "leaders" who, due to personal interests, in every possible way interfered with their own fighters.
  9. kavkaz8888
    kavkaz8888 2 August 2013 20: 28 New
    0
    And what did the author actually embellish?
    "The commandos blocked the intercity bus with passengers and blew up an Iranian fuel truck passing by, whose passenger died and the driver disappeared in a passing car."
    Forgot to write about the hostage taking on the bus?
  • Krsk
    Krsk 27 July 2013 08: 58 New
    +4
    About the "seals" smiled strongly, just stupid kittens)))
    1. 76rtbr
      76rtbr 28 July 2013 01: 07 New
      +3
      blind kittens
      1. ded10041948
        ded10041948 28 July 2013 21: 13 New
        +2
        "The visit program had to be crumpled and quickly completed in the simplest way - drinking together."
        I imagine these "competitions". If possible, the score of the “match”
  • deman73
    deman73 27 July 2013 09: 06 New
    +6
    Who would doubt Pontus is not measured but there is no sense
  • Constantine
    Constantine 27 July 2013 09: 14 New
    10
    To our Alpha to them as in a famous pose to China. As for the fighting Russian spirit, both s and SAS are far behind. Let your children be entertained with bravado in the Battle Field smile
    1. Andrey from Tver
      Andrey from Tver 27 July 2013 12: 03 New
      11
      At one time, the author of these lines commanded a reconnaissance group of maritime special forces - divers-saboteurs, or, streamlined, “combat swimmers”.

      These are the so-called "Halalayans," if in the Primorsky Territory. Google, and at least a little find, you still learn a lot of new and interesting. They cannot be compared with Alpha, because Alpha is anti-terror, and these Halulai are pure saboteurs. For the Americans, it seems that intelligence does not really work, they found with whom to contact. wink
      1. Gemar
        Gemar 27 July 2013 15: 25 New
        +3
        Quote: Andrey from Tver
        These are the so-called "Halalayans," if in the Primorsky Territory.

        Vladivostok, o.Russky., Bay. Small Dzhigit (bang.GOOD).
        Quote: Andrey from Tver
        They cannot be compared with Alpha, because Alpha is anti-terror, and these Halulai are pure saboteurs.

        1 company - SpN
        2 company - Intelligence
        3 company - RPM (underwater mining company)
        TV tech platoon (electricians, welders, boatmasters, etc.)
    2. Hleb
      Hleb 27 July 2013 12: 08 New
      12
      SAS is a serious service. Do not underestimate it.
      (Yes, and on the Delta, not everything is as sad as painted)
      1. s1н7т
        s1н7т 27 July 2013 21: 10 New
        +5
        Nobody speaks for САС. Well, Delta is evaluated on known occasions. For SAS such I do not remember something.
        1. Santa Fe
          Santa Fe 28 July 2013 11: 08 New
          -15
          Quote: c1n7
          Well, Delta is evaluated on known occasions.

          How then to evaluate Alpha?

          Buddenovsk, theater on Dubrovka (120 + dead), Beslan (300 + dead - operation completed)
          1. s1н7т
            s1н7т 28 July 2013 14: 23 New
            +1
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            How then to evaluate Alpha?

            Here, in two ways - in the Union, Alpha did not have failures, and then - it feels that the state in the person of the first persons did not give a damn about people. I have classmates and friends from Alpha and Pennant, I heard a lot.
            1. Santa Fe
              Santa Fe 28 July 2013 15: 54 New
              -2
              Quote: c1n7
              There are two ways - in the Union Alpha had no failures

              Well, under the Union, there was no need for such operations
          2. Free Island
            Free Island 28 July 2013 16: 43 New
            +4
            The capture of Amin’s palace without a single loss. The analogue is the Americans .... How many months have they been looking for Hussein? 5 quarters were demolished with civilians, because "according to intelligence, Hussein is there" .. and Hussein drilled his women at his own place in the palace and did not hide anywhere. Do not confuse the inflatable American soldiers with our fighters, for whom there are still more victories .. for the amers, not a single victory. Well, if only in govnovudskoy movie.
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 28 July 2013 18: 55 New
              -1
              Quote: Free Island
              Taking Amin’s palace without a single loss

              You would at least read about taking the Amin’s palace, for starters.
              During the assault on the Taj Beck, 5 KGB special forces officers, 6 people from the "Muslim battalion" and 9 paratroopers were killed. The leader of the operation, Colonel Boyarinov, was also killed. Almost all participants in the operation were injured. Also, a Soviet military doctor, colonel V.P. Kuznechenkov, who was in the palace, was killed by his fire (he was posthumously awarded the Order of the Red Banner).

              Quote: Free Island
              Hussein drove his women at his own place in the palace and did not hide anywhere.

              This and other nonsense from where?
              1. s1н7т
                s1н7т 28 July 2013 19: 20 New
                +5
                Quote: Pimply
                5 KGB special forces officers, 6 people from the “Muslim battalion” and 9 paratroopers died

                This is with 2000 active bayonets of the guard, however!
        2. PACIFIST
          PACIFIST 28 July 2013 13: 10 New
          14
          For about 50 years, we won’t learn about the successes of the delta, just like the special forces about us. To be honest, such articles are about the stupid NATO army, their cowardly special forces and equipment are really shit, and that we’ll tear them apart in a couple of minutes, smoking doesn’t lead to anything, If they so bad WHY SO MUCH MONEY FOR THE ARMY AND NAVY ??? I’m not a fan of Americans, but I need to know their minuses and advantages, and don’t underestimate them
        3. Hleb
          Hleb 28 July 2013 16: 07 New
          0
          Nobody speaks for САС

          and what I answered that? vision fails?
          1. s1н7т
            s1н7т 30 July 2013 10: 06 New
            +1
            "SAS is a serious service. Don't underestimate it.
            (and the Delta isn’t as sad as it’s painted). "
            Above this comment, CAC did not seem to be mentioned. Well, if you missed, then - vision fails hi
  • Denin
    Denin 27 July 2013 09: 18 New
    14
    Quote: Constantine
    Let your children be entertained with bravado in the Battle Field smile

    Duck and our children have fun with their bravado, look with whom and for whom our children are fighting in the virtual world.
    1. Constantine
      Constantine 27 July 2013 09: 36 New
      +4
      Quote: Denin
      Duck and our children have fun with their bravado, look with whom and for whom our children are fighting in the virtual world.


      I saw, therefore, and said "mine." Let not climb with ours with his heresy smile
    2. Basileus
      Basileus 27 July 2013 09: 41 New
      +6
      By the way, in the same battlefield there are Russians, and many people play for them.
      1. Constantine
        Constantine 27 July 2013 09: 53 New
        +4
        Quote: Basileus
        By the way, in the same battlefield there are Russians, and many people play for them.


        Yes, there is, but all campaigns are designed so that the Russians look like terror in Counter Strike, and they look like brave special forces. That is the problem. Few deny themselves the pleasure of going through the campaign, and there the Russians and the Chinese and Iranians are trying to destroy democracy, etc. An attempt to impose public opinion from an early age is obvious. sad
    3. Muadipus
      Muadipus 28 July 2013 12: 35 New
      0
      I don’t see anything bad. They learn the tactics of the enemy, so to speak first-hand :) On the other hand, there are no decent games of Russian production, where the opposite effect was already cultivated.
    4. operator35
      operator35 28 July 2013 15: 58 New
      +2
      let the children go to the gym and read books, but you keep them behind shooters ...
  • Prapor Afonya
    Prapor Afonya 27 July 2013 09: 44 New
    +7
    If our boys die due to the “great” mind of the generals, their misuse, poor communication, then amers due to lack of skill and complete incapacity! No wonder they are afraid of Russia!
  • omsbon
    omsbon 27 July 2013 09: 53 New
    25
    the driver of a fuel truck managed to escape on a passing car. Deltovtsy chased him on mopeds, but did not catch up, fired, but did not hit. Reality was less and less like an advertising Hollywood action movie ...

    What to do after reading this, crying or laughing? Chose a middle ground, neighing to tears!
    1. prophet190
      prophet190 27 July 2013 12: 39 New
      +5
      To be honest, at first I did not believe when I heard about Iran. I thought the Iranians were ready for the assault and set up an ambush, but such details are indicated here that you can’t get away from. Hmm guys, this is only in the category of humor.
      1. Fregate
        Fregate 27 July 2013 16: 45 New
        +2
        What they did with them is called a “special operation”, and we have a “crooked mirror”, “full house”, “gum club”, etc.
    2. datur
      datur 27 July 2013 15: 29 New
      +4
      [quote = omsbon] the driver of a fuel truck managed to escape on a passing car. Deltovtsy chased him on mopeds, but did not catch up, fired, but did not hit. Reality was less and less like an advertising Hollywood action movie ...

      What to do after reading this, crying or laughing? I chose a middle ground, neighing to tears! --- apparently mopeds were Chinese at the delta !!! laughing yes
      1. Corsair
        Corsair 28 July 2013 12: 25 New
        +3
        Quote: datur
        apparently the mopeds on the delta were Chinese !!!

        Clickable Image:
    3. Pimply
      Pimply 28 July 2013 18: 56 New
      -4
      In vain. Recall the story of Ullman?
      1. fartfraer
        fartfraer 28 July 2013 19: 29 New
        0
        pimple, it’s not Ulman’s group who was sent to “secretly encircle” and block the village along a bare mountain? get "epaulets" on the site.
  • avt
    avt 27 July 2013 10: 16 New
    11
    Everything is so about this operation in Iran, a sniper fuel truck set fire to it, like that, it aimed at the cockpit laughing . Indeed, supermen screwed up to the fullest and threw helicopters with new night vision devices and means of communication and recognition of a friend or foe. ,, “Charlie,” the Calvert Commander, 22SAS Commander softly remarked, visiting the Delta, “I'm afraid your guys have too many muscles.” .. No matter how it affects the head. "========= good Spetsnaz is primarily a head, but not for breaking bricks and bottles about it and wearing berets of all kinds of colors. But here we must pay tribute - the amers are packed soundly, from equipment to medical stimulants and support units with equipment they have enough.
    1. bazilio
      bazilio 27 July 2013 11: 50 New
      +6
      Quote: avt
      But here we must pay tribute - amers are soundly packed

      maybe this played a cruel joke with them? The fighter with the jeepies jumped to work, eventually forgot how to navigate the map with a compass, or even without it. This is if the fighter was taught orienteering by "grandfather" methods. And if the authorities decided that they don’t need maps and compasses, if everyone has jeepies?
      1. avt
        avt 27 July 2013 12: 53 New
        11
        Quote: bazilio
        maybe this played a cruel joke with them?

        Yeah, as in the 17th instants the hero performed by Gritsenko said - ,, I’ve been fighting them for the second year, their equipment will destroy them, they think that the war can be won only by bombing " laughing
    2. ded10041948
      ded10041948 28 July 2013 21: 22 New
      +3
      Plus, their prezik took ALL responsibility! Compare the spotted behavior after the events in Vilnius!
  • wown
    wown 27 July 2013 10: 22 New
    +6
    Have they distinguished themselves in Somalia? The story with Tehran is like a comedy
    1. Nayhas
      Nayhas 27 July 2013 15: 05 New
      +1
      They are, but the operation was very difficult, so to say that any other special forces would have saved helicopter pilots without a problem is impossible.
    2. datur
      datur 27 July 2013 15: 11 New
      +1
      [quote = wown] And in Somalia, they distinguished themselves? The story with Tehran is like a comedy-- well, yes, they successfully escaped there too !!! laughing
    3. Lopatov
      Lopatov 27 July 2013 15: 12 New
      +4
      In Somalia, they just excelled. Together with the rangers. There was a failure of the command and special services.
  • anip
    anip 27 July 2013 10: 22 New
    +2
    Good article written! "Neighing" cool! Definitely +.
  • ed65b
    ed65b 27 July 2013 10: 23 New
    +8
    Plus to the article, and to the author bravo. It was a pity, it turned out briefly, only paid off. hi
  • crambol
    crambol 27 July 2013 10: 43 New
    13
    The author is a huge plus! After the failure of the above operation in our excellent "foreigner" was published a reprint of a foreign article on two pages with a detailed description of the events. In the complete absence of tender feelings for the American armed forces (the costs of the profession!), I had a feeling of pity not for the US armed forces, but for those poor people who were forced to perform a failed operation on idiotic orders.
    PS If anyone can find “Abroad” in those years, they will enjoy the reportage with photos.
  • Far East
    Far East 27 July 2013 10: 58 New
    18
    I recalled a case, it was 2006, after the completion of the Okhotsk Sea Expedition, we went to the port of Busan, this is South., Korea having fun, of course, drinking and not a little! they walked around Texas, it’s like our Arbat’s, and then our gaze fell on the Americans in military uniforms, all in the “axels” as a demobilization from Central Asia, I think everyone understood! I didn’t want to offend anyone. Well, they invited us to drink beer at the table! we ordered vodka, they drank beer, well, all of them suggested we fight on our hands, we, after drinking in the “GUM”, well, and we won the result. it's true! and for the translator was the mistress of the institution Koreyka. I mean, they are all under 2 mtr. growth and we are ordinary Russian sailors drunk. SOMETHING LIKE THAT!
    1. Shadowcat
      Shadowcat 27 July 2013 11: 14 New
      +6
      I hope that their hands are not broken by accident)))
      1. Far East
        Far East 27 July 2013 11: 24 New
        +6
        No! they wanted revenge! but our strength was running out, the hostess gave us a drink at the expense of the establishment, she did a stupid thing because we gave everyone a drink! there are sooooo many Russians there for us, the city of "port" and the amers were taken away, they have their own military police from the ship.
        1. Shadowcat
          Shadowcat 27 July 2013 13: 18 New
          +7
          Friendly, I'm hanging around in Tai. So the fact that you were fed at the expense of the establishment is norms and garbage - all the same, they make all the drinks themselves (for example, the Edinger plant is located in Vietnam, there is a Heneken plant in Taey and I opened a Carlsberg pair this year) and I don’t get it very difficult) Asian mentality is something, for example Thai just kills me with its simplicity and uncomplicated. The main thing is that he should not be obscured by European or American fanaticism.
  • shinobi
    shinobi 27 July 2013 11: 05 New
    +4
    Respect to the author. There is no, of course, and the Amers have strong pros, but not so much as they claim. In general, the Yankees rely too much on technology in my opinion.
  • Letterksi
    Letterksi 27 July 2013 11: 27 New
    +5
    In terms of drinking together, they probably also blew clean? lol
    1. Far East
      Far East 27 July 2013 11: 36 New
      +6
      it says little! but we behaved sooo correct! I've been to a lot! but I didn’t see that our shame would be great, it happens! as some media write. it's a shame.
    2. datur
      datur 27 July 2013 15: 21 New
      +2
      [quote = LetterKsi] In terms of drinking together, they probably also blew clean? lol - Yes, they see our charge them ERSHA !!!! wink laughing But everyone knows that this is a vigorous mixture, especially without a habit !!!! laughing
  • soldier's grandson
    soldier's grandson 27 July 2013 11: 40 New
    +3
    will they be able to complete the task: to get from point A to point B by rail and not get lost? laughing
    1. sso-xnumx
      sso-xnumx 28 July 2013 02: 28 New
      0
      not. as soon as they arrive in Moscow at any station other than Kursky, they immediately get lost in the Moscow metro ...
  • a
    a 27 July 2013 11: 50 New
    -8
    the author, using the example of one failed operation, concludes that the American special forces are of "poor quality". I don’t presume to say the opposite, but in my opinion, most of the operations will always remain under the heading "secret." The public will be destined to learn only about those operations where secrecy was torn down. so I wouldn’t bark at American fighters. we don't know much
    as for the inability to orient cats on a compass, you can look at it from the other side too — they came with GPS, and we are all the old way with compasses. and it shows how we were technologically backward. if necessary, using GPS, Americans will instantly orient themselves on the ground. and our specialists in an unknown territory will run with a compass in an attempt to navigate.
    worthy adversary. do not belittle his strength
    1. Volkhov
      Volkhov 27 July 2013 12: 20 New
      -9
      Delta - an attempt to confront the SS, which is difficult in principle, because SSs are prepared before birth by the selection of parents, training on the best techniques from childhood, supplied with plates instead of helicopters and many other "fantastic" equipment, they are psychologically united ...
      Victories, if any, were not announced, because the very existence of the enemy is secret, so as not to embarrass the average person, in addition, finding a bolt from the "plate" to study material and a can for studying the enemy’s ration can be considered success - get at least this from the Moon or an underground object ...
      1. Raven1972
        Raven1972 27 July 2013 14: 17 New
        +5
        Quote: Volkhov
        Delta - an attempt to confront the SS

        But nothing that the Delta was created right after the Vietnam War? laughing Where can you not tell me the confrontation with the SS in the 70s of the 20th century? laughing laughing laughing
        1. datur
          datur 27 July 2013 15: 26 New
          +1
          [quote = Raven1972] [quote = Volkhov] Delta - an attempt to confront the SS [/ quote]
          But nothing that the Delta was created right after the Vietnam War? laughing Where does the confrontation with the SS in the 70s of the 20th century do not tell me? --- apparently it meant SAS !!! yes - VERY interesting guys !!!! yes
          1. Raven1972
            Raven1972 27 July 2013 16: 27 New
            0
            Quote: datur
            because SSs are prepared before birth by the selection of parents, training on the best techniques from childhood, supplied with plates instead of helicopters and many other "fantastic" equipment, they are psychologically united ...

            Well, if SAS from birth are preparing for their difficult share))))) Especially touched by the passage about the moon and flying saucers instead of helicopters)))) Does it remind me of anything?
            I immediately remembered laughing hi
          2. Volkhov
            Volkhov 27 July 2013 21: 56 New
            -10
            Quote: datur
            But nothing that the Delta was created right after the Vietnam War? Where does the confrontation with the SS in the 70s of the 20th century do not tell me? --- apparently it meant SAS !!!

            By the 60s, the first generation of Reich children had grown up, who had received full training from childhood (the first SSs were just volunteers with a pedigree from the 18th century) and in the USA created a group to counter them.
            Beckwith's proposal was twofold. Firstly, a small detachment (40 people), codenamed Blue Light, was created from among the former rangers and the Green Berets. His only goal was the fight against terrorists in the United States

            The Reich is the knowledge of the ancients, have they really copied technology, but have forgotten pedagogy?
            1. roninas
              roninas 27 July 2013 23: 22 New
              11
              Brother, I don’t know what you smoke, but through customs it’s better not to wear it
            2. Lavr75
              Lavr75 29 July 2013 00: 24 New
              +2
              Stop playing computer games, crawl out of the matrix. The world outside the window is a little different
              1. Volkhov
                Volkhov 29 July 2013 12: 58 New
                0
                Quote: Lavr75
                The world outside the window is a little different

                That is the problem...
                Quote: roninas
                Brother, I don’t know what you smoke, but through customs it’s better not to wear it

                And how do you feel under hypnosis - tell us about your feelings - a purely scientific interest, how can you not notice the atomic war, replace the dead cruiser with a virtual one, fight against Syria and talk about its protection ...
                These, of course, are big processes, but you can still try to understand them to see the shepherd behind the herd.
            3. Temer
              Temer 29 July 2013 19: 13 New
              +2
              Man, stop watching the dope from REN-TV.
              1. Volkhov
                Volkhov 29 July 2013 20: 12 New
                0
                Quote: Temer
                Man, stop watching the dope from REN-TV.

                The dope of the "smelling" Stars ...
                http://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201307271400-oa9c.htm
                But I did not refer to REN-TV.
            4. Parabelum
              Parabelum 31 July 2013 08: 31 New
              +1
              I read your comments, I had two questions:
              1. What are you smoking?
              2. Where do you get this?
              1. Volkhov
                Volkhov 3 August 2013 00: 55 New
                0
                Quote: Parabelum
                1. What are you smoking?
                2. Where do you get this?

                That is why the Minister of Defense and posed the problem of drug addiction in the army in a recent speech - at the military forum a third of the comments about the nonsense, what then happens in the smoking rooms ...
                Suddenly, the enemy does not smoke - then trouble, scientific companies will not save, they will not reach the moon in a year ...
        2. mihasik
          mihasik 27 July 2013 19: 44 New
          +2
          From computer shooters!)))
          1. Raven1972
            Raven1972 27 July 2013 22: 54 New
            -1
            Quote: mihasik
            From computer shooters!)))

            good Exactly ))))) laughing
    2. Russ69
      Russ69 27 July 2013 12: 41 New
      +3
      Quote: uno
      as for the inability to orient cats on a compass, you can look at it from the other side too — they came with GPS, and we are all the old way with compasses. and it shows how we were technologically backward. if necessary, using GPS, Americans will instantly orient themselves on the ground. and our specialists in an unknown territory will run with a compass in an attempt to navigate.
      worthy adversary. do not belittle his strength

      This is the whole problem of cats, the hope for gadgets. Which should essentially only facilitate the task, and play a major role.
      1. a
        a 27 July 2013 17: 10 New
        -8
        Quote: Russ69
        This is the whole problem of cats, the hope for gadgets. Which should essentially only facilitate the task, and play a major role.


        this is your problem. and for their command, I guess, the fastest way to navigate the terrain.
        1. zardoz
          zardoz 27 July 2013 19: 50 New
          +2
          Yes, that’s the problem. For without the same GPS, they simply got lost .... And if the enemy is serious and can jam the GPS signal or interfere with the work and the receiver will give incorrect coordinates? What will happen to the task if the soldiers are not trained in orienteering without GPS?
          1. s1н7т
            s1н7т 27 July 2013 21: 26 New
            +1
            Quote: zardoz
            if the fighters are not trained in orienteering without GPS?

            So, in my opinion, it can’t be. But also came across when "they" experienced great difficulties with this. It’s not that - in one eye, they simply don’t practice, and their skills are weakened.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 27 July 2013 22: 06 New
              +2
              And I was faced with the fact that our special forces experienced problems with orientation on the ground. In the villages. The cards are filthy, old.
              1. s1н7т
                s1н7т 30 July 2013 11: 00 New
                0
                Quote: Spade
                The cards are filthy, old.

                Well, what times, such cards laughing
                Although always, when you have only a card, be prepared to make adjustments on the spot.
    3. poquello
      poquello 27 July 2013 15: 50 New
      +3
      Quote: uno
      you can look at it on the other hand - they came with GPS, and we are all the old fashioned way with compasses. and it shows how we were technologically backward. if necessary, using GPS, Americans will instantly orient themselves on the ground. and our specialists in an unknown territory will run with a compass in an attempt to navigate.
      worthy adversary. do not belittle his strength

      They didn’t show them all the secrets, you need to run around the terrain without a compass.
      1. a
        a 27 July 2013 17: 11 New
        -4
        Quote: poquello
        It didn’t show them all the secrets, you need to run around the terrain without a compass


        I think that if people have gadgets, they will quickly navigate in an unfamiliar area. or wrong?
        1. Rider
          Rider 27 July 2013 17: 17 New
          11
          Quote: uno
          I think if people have gadgets,


          and then the gadgets run out of batteries, or the screen breaks.
          or interference.
          But you never know what can happen.

          and then the tow truck won't come.

          and they forgot how to walk by pawn.

          technological progress is of course always kuul.
          but you need to know how to use the compass and map, and it’s not a bad idea to make marches either.

          or wrong?

          wink
          1. a
            a 27 July 2013 17: 48 New
            -8
            Quote: Rider
            and then the gadgets run out of batteries, or the screen breaks.
            or interference.
            But you never know what can happen.

            and then the tow truck won't come.

            and they forgot how to walk by pawn.

            technological progress is of course always kuul.
            but you need to know how to use the compass and map, and it’s not a bad idea to make marches either.


            here we really can say what could happen. By the time the gadgets run out of battery, they will orient themselves for a long time on the terrain and get to the right point. And ours will search with a compass where this point is.
            The ability to work with the compass is certainly necessary, but if you have a useful device at hand that allows you to navigate in a minute on the ground, which means there is a likelihood of a faster exit to the right place - what could be better than that ???
            1. Rider
              Rider 27 July 2013 17: 54 New
              +4
              Well, keep silent about ours, because (a priori) ours is bad and devastation in half with hunger.

              but on
              but if at hand there is a useful device that allows you to navigate in a minute on the ground, which means there is a likelihood of a faster exit to the right place, what could be better than that ???

              there is a simple answer - brains.
              in which a lot of knowledge and skills are invested.
              and you continue to hope for zhyspis
              1. a
                a 27 July 2013 18: 58 New
                -14
                Quote: Rider
                Well, keep silent about ours, because (a priori) ours is bad and devastation in half with a bare head


                Well, what is silent then? when the amers came to ours, then they had GPS .. and ours only with a compass. it was then necessary to streamline the competition with GPS / GLONASS orientation. then our defeat would have been counted as “failure to appear”

                Quote: Rider
                there is a simple answer - brains.
                in which a lot of knowledge and skills are invested.


                that's what I see that we have put on the production of processors, the manufacture of various microprocessor devices. and the standards by which the whole world works also came up with us (for example, GSM). and the internet is our sole achievement. we have brains .. but in America there are none. but how so that half the world dances to the music of these "brainless"?
                1. zardoz
                  zardoz 27 July 2013 20: 10 New
                  +2
                  By microprocessors - this is to the humpback and Yeltsin ... And what side are the Americans with GSM? The Internet in its present form, in principle, is also a European merit. If you think that there were no computers and networks in the USSR, then you are mistaken.
                  1. a
                    a 27 July 2013 20: 37 New
                    -9
                    Quote: zardoz
                    By microprocessors - this is to the humpback and Yeltsin ... And what side are the Americans with GSM? The Internet in its present form, in principle, is also a European merit. If you think that there were no computers and networks in the USSR, then you are mistaken.


                    well yes. apparently we invented the structure of the x86 processor. apparently we always had advanced microcircuits. it makes no sense to blame Gorbachev and Yeltsin for the reason that when they came to power our lag behind amers in this matter was measured by generations.
                    computers were. he himself worked for such people back in the days of the USSR. therefore I know this topic well
                    1. zardoz
                      zardoz 27 July 2013 20: 42 New
                      +4
                      If you worked back in the days of the USSR and knew well, you wouldn’t write such bullshit.
                    2. Lexagun
                      Lexagun 27 July 2013 23: 15 New
                      +6
                      Uno, this is terrible, but just the architecture of Intel processors is surprisingly “similar” to such an interesting topic as Elbrus. Yes, Elbrus occupied up to 10 cabinets, had an average time between failures of about 300 hours, but it was its architecture that formed the basis of x086, as well as Elbrus-2 was the basis of the "stump", it all ended with the absorption of the Elbrus development team by intel with the transition to work in Intel more than 500 specialists. However, not everything is so bad, the absorption took place on relatively parity terms, in the sense that they are now not just stealing Russian mathematics, but also sharing with our state what was not there before. repeat
                      In general, take a look at Pentkovsky’s biography or type in the search for “Elbrus 3m” and you will be happy.
                      So the palm in the development of the most productive processor architectures belongs to the USSR and Russia.
                    3. washi
                      washi 28 July 2013 17: 01 New
                      +3
                      at that time we already had computers with parallel processing of information, the so-called multi-core
                2. Rider
                  Rider 27 July 2013 20: 16 New
                  +2
                  Quote: uno
                  Well, what is silent then? when the amers came to ours, then they had GPS .. and ours only with a compass.


                  and no one is silent; they blew the Yankees at competitions.

                  and according to the second statement, you will be surprised when you find out how much and what our people invented.
                  and what dances, so Mr. Dollar steers.
                  here you fall for their bait "they are the coolest, the most sophisticated, and the most vaapche"

                  but something pulled you into the global elements, started with gadgets, ended with world domination.
                  1. a
                    a 27 July 2013 20: 33 New
                    -8
                    Quote: Rider
                    and according to the second statement, you will be surprised when you find out how much and what our people invented.


                    to invent, many people know how. But to realize is another matter.
            2. ded10041948
              ded10041948 28 July 2013 21: 33 New
              0
              Do not tell me how to throw a "virus" into a map or compass?
          2. poquello
            poquello 29 July 2013 01: 05 New
            +1
            Or even simpler, a strong EMP — the compass ended, the carriage of nails into space — the gadget ended.
    4. Krilion
      Krilion 27 July 2013 16: 17 New
      +2
      Quote: uno
      the author, using the example of one failed operation, concludes that the American special forces are of "poor quality". I don’t presume to say the opposite, but in my opinion, most of the operations will always remain under the heading "secret."



      Well, as if the “delta” had more than one failed operation ... this special forces was “glorified” precisely by the fact that its remnants were completely destroyed in the operation in Grenada .. only those who were in headquarters in the United States remained alive ... that's it ..there is no more delta ..
      1. a
        a 27 July 2013 17: 15 New
        -6
        Quote: Krilion
        Well, as if the "delta" is not one failed operation.


        the author colorfully painted only one failed operation. about the second he wrote that it was failed, but no data was given at all. I knew about Iran, and I knew that the Americans still took Grenada. but the special forces did not know what exactly failed there and the author bypassed this topic altogether. and to draw conclusions about the unsuitability of the special forces on the basis of one or two operations is in my opinion incorrect. besides, we don’t know, and probably don’t know about successful operations.
        1. biglow
          biglow 27 July 2013 20: 14 New
          +1
          Quote: uno
          Quote: Krilion
          Well, as if the "delta" is not one failed operation.


          the author colorfully painted only one failed operation. about the second he wrote that it was failed, but no data was given at all. I knew about Iran, and I knew that the Americans still took Grenada. but the special forces did not know what exactly failed there and the author bypassed this topic altogether. and to draw conclusions about the unsuitability of the special forces on the basis of one or two operations is in my opinion incorrect. besides, we don’t know, and probably don’t know about successful operations.

          read about Grenada, Amer special forces fought there with the Cuban workers. And read about the losses. And this article is trimmed, In the original article about everything else is also written lol
          1. a
            a 27 July 2013 20: 39 New
            -7
            so where to read that? here you too, read it. not to throw a reference.

            Quote: biglow
            The original article about everything else is also written


            then what is the point of trimming the article here? to show the enemy in general complete stupid?
            1. Rider
              Rider 27 July 2013 21: 28 New
              0
              Quote: uno
              so where to read that? here you too, read it. not to throw a reference.


              Read the full comment thread, enough links have been posted.

              do not sign in their own ignorance.
            2. biglow
              biglow 28 July 2013 11: 45 New
              0
              Quote: uno
              so where to read that? here you too, read it. not to throw a reference.

              Quote: biglow
              The original article about everything else is also written


              then what is the point of trimming the article here? to show the enemy in general complete stupid?

              Help the Internet, we are looking for an operation in Grenada. Most of the helicopters were shot down in the air, then the operation in panama to capture Noriega, as well as large losses due to fire on their own. And so on, remember Somalia
              There is nothing to brag about the delta All operations are good only in the movies
    5. dustycat
      dustycat 27 July 2013 18: 25 New
      +1
      Quote: uno
      as for the inability to orient cats on a compass, you can look at it from the other side too — they came with GPS, and we are all the old way with compasses. and it shows how we were technologically backward. if necessary, using GPS, Americans will instantly orient themselves on the ground.

      The events of the bombing of Iraq and Serbia showed that the work of the GPS can be very effectively influenced and disrupted.
      In addition, recently (2011) there was a big embarrassment in the United States when LTE was launched - the LTE network completely blocked the operation of GPS in some areas of the mattress (according to some reports, this is 30% of the US territory for some 50%). I had to urgently reconfigure and abandon the operation of LTE at some frequencies. Until now, the LTE network in mattress only works for 70% of the ability because of this.
      In Europe, it turned out almost the same. Which once again spurred the deployment of the Galio system.
      By the way, our GLONASS is not better, or even worse than GPS. FM modulation of GPS is more resistant to interference than AM modulation of GLONASS.
      1. Hleb
        Hleb 27 July 2013 18: 40 New
        0
        events in Iraq and Serbia just showed the work of the Delta, when they set lighthouses for guiding missiles
        about orienting on the ground, as I wrote a long time ago. We had joint events. There were amers and French. They really have difficulties without satellite navigation.
        (especially if you throw them into an unfamiliar area)
        1. sso-xnumx
          sso-xnumx 28 July 2013 02: 23 New
          +3
          Onet and our paratroopers in Yugoslavia fled together peacekeepers. And with their zhps managed to arrive at the point 2 hours later than our reconnaissance platoon. And when they found out that our men used only a map, a compass and a curvimeter for a long time they tried to understand what a curvimeter was and tried to exchange it for whatever you want. But the “secret” equipment and property is not subject to “Chenchu”. remained ignorant. (at that moment. Maybe they already know?)
          1. studentmati
            studentmati 28 July 2013 02: 45 New
            -3
            That is the key to the success of the Russian army. GPRS is the most harmful and disorienting weapon.

            And yet, not the topic, “Voivode” flies through the astronavigation system, and has an error of 100 - 500 meters, you must admit that this is a “penny” for ten warheads in megatons, but no GPRS ...
    6. mihasik
      mihasik 27 July 2013 19: 42 New
      +2
      Nobody belittles them, just ours are better). And what will they do if the battery sits on the GPS or the satellites "render harmless"?)) After all, during hostilities (global) GPS will be taken out of work right away ...
      1. a
        a 27 July 2013 19: 54 New
        -3
        Quote: mihasik
        Nobody belittles them, just ours are better)


        no one argues that ours is better. it’s just that in an article based on one non-secure operation they put a stigma. sounds like a refrain; they don’t know anything.

        Quote: mihasik
        And what will they do if the battery sits on the GPS or the satellites "render harmless"


        I think that they may not provide for us that the battery will run out. and they, if not all, have taken into account much.
        Yes, in case of war, they will try to disable the positioning system immediately. maybe it will work out. no one will give a guarantee. only, as I understand it, Delta is the same special unit that is used in covert operations, not necessarily in wartime.
        1. Constantine
          Constantine 27 July 2013 20: 00 New
          0
          Quote: uno
          no one argues that ours is better. it’s just that in an article based on one non-secure operation they put a stigma. sounds like a refrain; they don’t know anything.


          One of the operations is described in the article, and references to the places of their conduct are given to others. If desired, you can find.

          Quote: uno
          I think that they may not provide for us that the battery will run out. and they, if not all, have taken into account much.
          Yes, in case of war, they will try to disable the positioning system immediately. maybe it will work out. no one will give a guarantee. only, as I understand it, Delta is the same special unit that is used in covert operations, not necessarily in wartime.


          If everything is provided for them, then where such blunders come from? + They lie in peacetime, and hidden operations are made public. The fact that we hear little about them may indicate that they are either not being sent anywhere, but kept in mind, like the F-22, for example, or, in the case when they mess, impose a ban on the dissemination of this information to the media. The latter is available there and very well controlled.
          1. a
            a 27 July 2013 20: 44 New
            -3
            Quote: Constantine
            One of the operations is described in the article, and references to the places of their conduct are given to others.


            there, in my opinion, the reference was only to the operation in Grenada.

            Quote: Constantine
            when they mess, they prohibit the dissemination of this information to the media. The latter is available there and very well controlled.



            I wonder how they can impose a ban, if they establish? because in theory they are conducting a covert operation on enemy territory. and if we assume that it was established there, then how can this be hidden? Is the country in whose territory Delta established silent? Can you imagine the Iranians being silent when the Delta started there?
            1. Constantine
              Constantine 28 July 2013 18: 35 New
              0
              Quote: uno
              I wonder how they can impose a ban, if they establish? because in theory they are conducting a covert operation on enemy territory. and if we assume that it was established there, then how can this be hidden? Is the country in whose territory Delta established silent? Can you imagine the Iranians being silent when the Delta started there?


              There is a list of taboo topics in the media. There are levers of pressure on other countries through the CIA and other instruments. Those against whom there was aggression, of course, will not be silent, but you can establish and quickly cross the border. It seems they screwed up, but they didn’t catch it by the hand. Here everything is variable and you need to look at the situation, but you can hush up in most cases.
  • Rider
    Rider 27 July 2013 12: 18 New
    13
    Well, the article is interesting, but objectivity let us down.

    if everything about the failure in Iran is written colorfully in detail (and most importantly) truthfully.

    that statement
    but luck “Delta” is not added. Again and again, with amazing constancy, Beckwith's pets managed to fail the tasks assigned to them. They were beaten in Asia, Africa and Latin America;

    it was necessary to back up with at least some factual material.

    about the beating of the Deltaians in Grenada, I read in the article "The American Army - a myth" (or something like that) but it was painfully engaged and full of distortions.

    Well, from myself I will add one bike.

    during the second Desert Storm.
    Before the introduction of the main forces, a group of marine corps specialists landed on the coast of Pers Hall.
    with the aim of conducting in-depth reconnaissance and promoting landing landing.
    they rummaged along the coast and came across an Iraqi mechanized coast guard patrol.
    consisting of a pair of tanks, several BeTRs, and a truck with infantry.
    it would seem that the situation is clear as daylight — it will slip and not shine.
    however, they did not find anything better than ATTACK superior enemy forces.
    Well, they are taught so.
    that they are the coolest and invincible, and will parvate to flaps of any opponent.
    (hello from plckn Beckwith) laughing

    (retreat)
    can anyone remember the film "Desert Storm" with Sean Bean in the title role?
    there was an episode when the CAC group attacked the Bronogroup, on a flat table. FULL GROWTH moreover, they inflicted serious losses on the enemy and even knocked out several boxes.

    no, I know that Hollywood shoots fairy tales BUT NOT TO THE SAME DEGREE!

    So with specialists it was the same.
    that group of marines BEGAN to attack.
    only instead of being ravaged by the brutal Americans, the Iraqis moved away AND Shot the brave (but stupid) infidels from the TANK GUN.

    the moral of this fable is “as Vasily Ivanovich used to say - neher shove with a bare heel on a saber”
    1. sergey72
      sergey72 27 July 2013 12: 25 New
      +3
      Quote: Rider
      about the beating of the Deltaians in Grenada, I read in the article "The American Army - a myth" (or something like that) but it was painfully engaged and full of distortions.

      I remember the words of the "Delta" commander from that article "... we almost raped ..."
      1. Rider
        Rider 27 July 2013 12: 43 New
        +7
        Quote: sergey72
        I remember the words of the "Delta" commander from that article "... we almost raped ..


        it's true.
        the fact is that the Deltovites landed on an airfield guarded by Cuban BUILDERS (oh ya cry)
        and the armaments of the specialists were MP 5 (Heckler’s alteration)
        and they have limitations on effective range.
        they thought they would fight in the airport building, but ended up on the take-off field (pichalka)
        Well, they were put by the Cubans from Kalash as in a dash.
        1. sergey72
          sergey72 27 July 2013 13: 58 New
          +6
          Add two downed helicopters with a Delta on board right under the cameras of American television people ...
        2. Lopatov
          Lopatov 27 July 2013 15: 25 New
          -3
          Quote: Rider
          Well, they were put by the Cubans from Kalash as in a dash.


          As many as six out of forty.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Lopatov
        Lopatov 27 July 2013 15: 24 New
        -1
        This was said by one of the rangers. “They almost raped us” after they were dropped from 150 m to an airfield covered by small arms and ZSU-23-2
        1. Rider
          Rider 27 July 2013 15: 30 New
          +3
          Quote: Spade
          This was said by one of the rangers.


          can you find out your source of awareness 7
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 27 July 2013 15: 53 New
            -2
            Google: Argent Fury
            1. Rider
              Rider 27 July 2013 16: 06 New
              +7
              read - it will be interesting: http://www.proza.ru/2010/12/15/1029

              The comments there are really shine, such as:“The Americans decided to start like this. From the S-130 Hercules aircraft, two large inflatable boats with crews from the elite Navy Seals (Seals) are dropped from a low altitude into the sea. They secretly approach the coast, the beach, they land on it, enter the battle, take up the defense and hold this position until the main landing forces — paratroopers and marines — disembark. The following happened: The first boat dropped from the plane immediately drowned. The fate of the crew was not illuminated further. but after some time her the crew noticed some kind of vessel nearby and decided to turn off the engine "to comply with camouflage. It is completely incomprehensible why they did this, because they were perfectly visible from this vessel. In general, they failed to start the engine again. A boat with elite" fur seals "carried it over to the open sea, where it hung out for two days, until it was discovered by the ships of the US Navy ...
    2. Bigfoot_Sev
      Bigfoot_Sev 27 July 2013 13: 25 New
      0
      Quote: Rider

      that they are the coolest and invincible, and will parvate to flaps of any opponent.
      (hello from plckn Beckwith) laughing

      (retreat)
      can anyone remember the film "Desert Storm" with Sean Bean in the title role?
      there was an episode when the CAC group attacked the Bronogroup, on a flat table. FULL GROWTH moreover, they inflicted serious losses on the enemy and even knocked out several boxes.

      no, I know that Hollywood shoots fairy tales BUT NOT TO THE SAME DEGREE!

      So with specialists it was the same.
      that group of marines BEGAN to attack.
      only instead of being ravaged by the brutal Americans, the Iraqis moved away AND Shot the brave (but stupid) infidels from the TANK GUN.

      the moral of this fable is “as Vasily Ivanovich used to say - neher shove with a bare heel on a saber”


      “Desert Storm” was filmed from the book “Bravo Two Zero,” the author of which, it seems, was a member of this group of CAC. I don’t remember how in the film, but the book explained why they went on the attack (there was no choice to put it mildly) and all the emotions accompanying it. 8-)
      so it's not Hollywood anyway.
      1. Rider
        Rider 27 July 2013 13: 38 New
        +5
        Quote: Bigfoot_Sev
        so it's not Hollywood anyway.


        the book can also be written in different ways.
        they recently discussed the most “productive” American hero, who has more than 4000 killed enemy soldiers and a bunch of armored vehicles on his account.
        he somehow even alone repelled the attack of 70 Iraqi tanks
        laughing

        Well, from the episode, I ASSUME that this could be.
        in this case, you need to select the terrain for filming more competently.
        since in the open field, the group of infantry for the groats is a target for a couple of tapes.
        1. soldier's grandson
          soldier's grandson 27 July 2013 16: 21 New
          0
          so there the grass is the same as he himself
          1. Rider
            Rider 27 July 2013 16: 24 New
            +1
            Quote: soldier's grandson
            so there the grass is the same as he himself


            honestly say, I have not read the book.
            and in the film, the thing happens in NAKE, FLAT AS A TABLE IN THE DESERT.
            as soon as I watched this fragment, I immediately turned it off.

            actually that's why I cited this episode as an example
            1. Bigfoot_Sev
              Bigfoot_Sev 27 July 2013 17: 59 New
              +1
              yes there was a flat and bare desert in history. as flat as a table. lunar landscape.
              pure intelligence blunder.
              the film is based on a book that describes real events.
              I advise you to read. the book is good. there is a lot of things about life. about the plan. about captivity.
        2. ded10041948
          ded10041948 28 July 2013 21: 47 New
          0
          However, ammunition overrun!
    3. Lopatov
      Lopatov 27 July 2013 15: 18 New
      0
      Quote: Rider
      about the beating of the Deltaians in Grenada, I read in the article "The American Army - a myth" (or something like that) but it was painfully engaged and full of distortions.

      Details if possible. As far as I know, there were problems again with the organization of the operation. There weren’t even maps, they used tourist ones.

      1. Rider
        Rider 27 July 2013 15: 29 New
        +1
        Quote: Spade
        More if you can


        Well, the article "the American army is the biggest myth"
        unconditionally engaged and with obvious distortions.

        but he saw the episode with Grenada in the AMERICAN landing documentary. somewhere about 3 years ago.
        and it was said there EXACTLY about the delta, landing by parachute method.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 27 July 2013 15: 34 New
          -1
          There, their Joint Command of Special Operations "distinguished themselves." Having planned everything very badly and putting a bunch of commandos.

          The Delta was dropped with gliding parachutes to capture the airfield, which was not supposed to be guarded. Caught in the fire. Then, right in the midst of the battle, the “rangers” were thrown with ultra-small (so that the planes wouldn’t hinder and less parachutists were under fire from the ground. That didn’t help much.) And only they could pass the situation at the cost of losses.
          1. Rider
            Rider 27 July 2013 15: 45 New
            +5
            In the early morning of that day, about forty Delta fighters were landed on the same runway using a long high-altitude jump. It was probably planned that this landing of the Delta was to play the role of a preliminary strike before the landing of five hundred rangers. However, fortune on this day was clearly not on the side of the Americans: the paratroopers noticed the Cuban guard and raised the alarm. The Delta fighters had to determine the tactical situation in the airport area, eliminate the Cuban military builders and remove the construction equipment that stood on the runway from it. But instead, the Delta had to meet only dense fire from Cuban small arms. The commandos were trained in the fight against terrorists and the release of hostages and equipped accordingly. But black overalls and silent Hekler-Koch submachine guns were out of place in a real battle: the Americans immediately after landing were pressed by fire to the edge of the runway, where they remained for several hours. Only the rangers and powerful fire support of the heavy AC-130 ganships, equipped with 20-mm, 30-mm and 105-mm guns with a high-precision guidance system, saved the Delta fighters from the complete destruction. Nevertheless, the Delta losses amounted to 6 people killed and 16 wounded.

            it was robust, half of the landing was given to the Sappers.
            (Probably in our construction battalion they went through practice)

            taken:http://army.lv/ru/O-bednih-kommandos-zamolvite-slovo...-amerikanskiy-spetsnaz-na
            -Grenade / 2704/4576
      2. dustycat
        dustycat 27 July 2013 18: 39 New
        +4
        Quote: Spade

        Details if possible. As far as I know, there were problems again with the organization of the operation. There weren’t even maps, they used tourist ones.


        And even satellite photos were not ??!?!?!
        And the blackbirds didn’t fly there?!?!
        And even just aerial photography was not done ?!
        And you believe in this nonsense ?!
        Who wants to - does, who does not know how - comes up with excuses.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 27 July 2013 19: 08 New
          -3
          Nothing. Only tourist cards. You know which kiosks are for sale. And they openly said that the operation was completely unprepared.
      3. ded10041948
        ded10041948 28 July 2013 21: 49 New
        0
        It's good that there are no cigarettes with a plan of the terrain! And so - the local version of the pack "Belomor"
    4. datur
      datur 27 July 2013 15: 39 New
      +1
      Rider --- and there’s also an episode about gold coins- which are issued to all these types of characters — like buy yourself everything-- after all, by their upbringing, the loot wins everything !! belay laughing
  • GUSAR
    GUSAR 27 July 2013 12: 40 New
    +3
    War is not a Hollywood action movie
  • Zhenya-1
    Zhenya-1 27 July 2013 13: 16 New
    +4
    Clownish Hollywood special forces, in a word.
    As they say in our Ukraine - "Winter is nimtsi"))))
    1. washi
      washi 27 July 2013 16: 21 New
      +1
      The main advertisement.
      Theoretically, all enemies, having learned that the coolest unit in the world is riding on them, should run themselves. Unfortunately, not everyone watches Hollywood movies, and therefore sometimes you have to fight
  • Corsair5912
    Corsair5912 27 July 2013 13: 22 New
    +3
    the driver of a fuel truck managed to escape on a passing car. Deltovtsy chased him on mopeds, but did not catch up, fired, but did not hit. Reality was less and less like an advertising Hollywood action movie ...
    Meanwhile, work was in full swing at the aerodrome. When refueling the helicopters, it turned out that the hoses were rather short, and since the detachments, of course, were not at the disposal of the detachment, the helicopters had to taxi to the tanker aircraft on their own. At the same time, one of the “stallions” blades of its screw slashed through the “Hercules” fuel tank ...
    Now the flame was visible, probably even from Tehran! Both cars burned to the ground together with the crews (8 dead), 4 paratroopers received severe burns.

    I haven’t read anything funnier for a long time.
    Hollywood could have made a high-quality comedy for this "special operation", the audience would have burst out laughing. American special forces defeated ... American special forces.
  • volvo
    volvo 27 July 2013 13: 53 New
    +3
    killed about short hoses! this is the height of stupidity))))
    1. dustycat
      dustycat 27 July 2013 18: 46 New
      +3
      Quote: volvo
      killed about short hoses! this is the height of stupidity))))

      Especially when you consider that almost all fuel hoses are either mom-dad or bayonet hoses - they easily fit together and increase the length - obviously when they were completed with them for the operation and counted on it ..
      They did not calculate that the soldiers would not be able to do this.
      “I'm afraid your guys have too many muscles.” .. No matter how it affects the head.
  • Dimy4
    Dimy4 27 July 2013 14: 17 New
    +5
    It’s interesting, and if you just take them for mushrooms, they get lost?
  • pensioner
    pensioner 27 July 2013 14: 21 New
    +5
    the driver of a fuel truck managed to escape on a passing car. Deltovtsy chased him on mopeds, but did not catch up
    I don’t understand something ... But what: does a moped catch a car?
    1. dustycat
      dustycat 27 July 2013 18: 49 New
      0
      Quote: retired

      I don’t understand something ... But what: does a moped catch a car?

      And what, locals on mopeds between cities in the desert drive on mopeds ?!
      Although if the bike does not have a Harley and Davidson label, this is a moped. wassat
      1. Corsair
        Corsair 28 July 2013 12: 39 New
        0
        Quote: dustycat
        And what, locals on mopeds between cities in the desert drive on mopeds ?!

        No, amers brought them with them laughing
  • Selevc
    Selevc 27 July 2013 14: 48 New
    +2
    I once watched a similar program about one of the operations of Amer special forces in Iraq ... So there when they were thrown into place they immediately lit up - they were discovered by a boy grazing near goats !!! and naturally called the Iraqi military ... It seemed like a battle — some of the special forces were wounded and these “Rambos” decided to retreat (it’s so beautifully said in the film, but it’s understandable that they drained) - and then they returned to their own through the desert and were terribly frozen and some seem to have been captured ... You see, you didn’t know that in the desert it can be cold at night !!! :))) I, too - special forces - do not know the basic things that even a decent tourist must know !!!

    I don’t know if this is true or desa but it is very similar to a very real situation ...
    1. Bigfoot_Sev
      Bigfoot_Sev 27 July 2013 18: 39 New
      +1
      it's all the same "Bravo two zero."
      firstly, with the haste of retreat, part of the equipment was thrown.
      secondly, the night was almost the coldest for how many years there. snow, wind.
      in general, everything really happened.
  • Foooxxxxx
    Foooxxxxx 27 July 2013 14: 54 New
    +1
    In short, one interesting comment was found) The topic was the victory of the airborne troops in competitions in the Netherlands, which took place recently, but actually the comment was under this topic ...
    I remember the words of an American sergeant at a joint exercise in the Kapchagai air assault brigade: 50 km! What are you! We have hummers! And if they break, then the helicopters will fly in. What can I say, if they waited half a day for the pegs to be brought to them so that they can pull the tent.
  • Foooxxxxx
    Foooxxxxx 27 July 2013 14: 57 New
    +1
    So, the "seals" managed to get lost immediately. And instead of moving along the route, our group had to look for these woe-supermen in the seaside taiga so that, God forbid, they would not bend from hunger or catch the eye of the soldiers of the Internal Troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs or border guards


    Amused hahah)))
    1. Corsair5912
      Corsair5912 27 July 2013 16: 08 New
      +4
      Quote: FoooXxXxX

      Amused hahah)))

      Yusovtsy funny guys. In 2001, their “green berets” with our army special forces conducted joint exercises in the Middle Urals. The equipment of our scouts was ordinary army, kirzachi with footcloths and standard camouflage. USA fighters have shoes and uniforms, anti-sweat socks, special backpacks with a drinking bowl on the go, etc. The area was a resort with good cross.
      Ours made them in marching and shooting, supermen died on the 3 kilometer, their legs were erased, they never traveled on such gigantic distances on foot.
      After a friendly dinner from Russian cuisine, they all swept through.
      Such an invincible adversary is threatening us.
      1. Rider
        Rider 27 July 2013 16: 13 New
        +1
        Quote: Corsair5912
        After a friendly dinner from Russian cuisine, they all swept through.


        and continues to carry so far.
        they have recently been guarded at the next joint exercises.

        they now probably have a conditioned reflex developed.
        and the compulsory uniforms will include diapers.

        you don’t know, the roofing felts are laughing, the roofing felts are crying.
  • ratuld
    ratuld 27 July 2013 15: 03 New
    -2
    Come on you laugh !!!
    Normal guys.
    It's just that the psychology is different - but we need to prepare them ....
    Oh !!!!
    let's train and feed them like ...
    It’s just a nightmare and not a special ... time ... soldier
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 27 July 2013 15: 13 New
      -1
      Why is it different?
    2. datur
      datur 27 July 2013 15: 44 New
      +2
      [quote = ratuld] Come on, laugh!
      Normal guys.
      It's just that the psychology is different - but we need to prepare them ....
      Oh !!!!
      let's train and feed them like ...
      It’s just a nightmare, not a special one ... time ...: --- We don’t need them to prepare them, but their equipment !!! and our preparation is a thing !!!
  • datur
    datur 27 July 2013 15: 17 New
    +2
    [quote = Gleb] SAS is a serious service. Do not underestimate it.
    (and the Delta isn’t as sad as it was painted) - sas-- yes these are dangerous pribluds, and the delta are well-packed stormtroopers - but alas, nothing but commercials for Hollywood films that are not famous !! although the Americans, of course, have very effective and dangerous teams-- the same seals! very pros and dangerous !!!
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 27 July 2013 15: 28 New
      +1
      It's simple: usually in such groups only failures creep out. They are silent about successful ones.
      1. datur
        datur 27 July 2013 15: 58 New
        +2
        [quote = Lopatov] It's simple: usually in such groups only failures creep out. They are silent about successful ones. yes no everything is just everything is the opposite; all good luck is upstairs, failure is stuck !! wink conclusions are just right! - after all this, only the correct infa was fed to the zhurnyugam !! yes and remember our Chechen wars? everywhere these zhurnalyugi who are looking for all the worst with us, but these ,, fucking freedom fighters, good !!! yes
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 27 July 2013 19: 10 New
          0
          NK so tell about at least one operation "Delta"
  • Krsk
    Krsk 27 July 2013 15: 53 New
    0
    In general, in the history of the delta there are high-profile operations ?? maybe someone knows ??? successful ???
  • asbaev
    asbaev 27 July 2013 15: 54 New
    +3
    But what a great advertisement and ammunition beautiful :) In a word, supporters of same-sex marriage.
  • 0255
    0255 27 July 2013 16: 53 New
    +8
    Americans compensate for the poor preparation of their special forces by bombing. Only at the expense of aviation did they win in Iraq, Yugoslavia and Libya. They counted on aviation in Korea and Vetnam, but the 15th MiGs in Korea, the 17th, 19th and 21st in Vietnam thwarted their hopes for a small victorious war, at the same time preventing the Third World War, as the United States prepared from time to time attack the USSR.
    In World War II, the amers didn’t lose the landing in Normandy, they also preferred to bomb cities where there was no fascist army.
    The only war where the American army performed well is the war with Megatron in Transformers. The US Army was not afraid to enter the enemy, technically superior to them! )))
  • Pimply
    Pimply 27 July 2013 17: 03 New
    +3
    Yeah What is always striking in such articles is a huge number of people who immediately start yelling "amers - g ... but! That's right!". And who, in principle, does not give a damn about reality.
  • pensioner
    pensioner 27 July 2013 17: 08 New
    0
    Quote: Pimply
    Yeah What is always striking in such articles is a huge number of people who immediately start yelling "amers - g ... but!

    You can not yell. And not about amers ...
  • The comment was deleted.
  • meq
    meq 27 July 2013 17: 51 New
    0
    But what about this?
    http://topwar.ru/8193-operativnyy-otryad-delta-us-delta-force.html
    The joker lists all the operations. And not all there are unsuccessful.
    The author believes in fairy tales. Or am I the coolest?
  • Leon779
    Leon779 27 July 2013 17: 54 New
    0
    I don’t understand something ... But what: does a moped catch a car?

    It is unlikely, but in Hollywood blockbusters this does not happen yet)))
  • Double major
    Double major 27 July 2013 17: 57 New
    +4
    In general, the American special forces are coolly equipped, but on individual training it costs nothing, without a collimator, at least they can’t even shoot ... Information from an officer who participated in joint exercises.
    1. Hleb
      Hleb 27 July 2013 18: 45 New
      +2
      cool outfit

      changed with a Frenchman. I got a lump, I peeled him (they liked our pea jackets) and I got SAS unloading as a gift. They have training worse than ours. By the way, they are fine by the way. If you take the orientation on the ground, they lost. On the march also dead. by pulling the rope they did))
  • crambol
    crambol 27 July 2013 18: 10 New
    +3
    Quote: uno
    the author, using the example of one failed operation, concludes that the American special forces are of "poor quality". I don’t presume to say the opposite, but in my opinion, most of the operations will always remain under the heading "secret."

    As Napoleon used to say our Bonaparte - "This is worse than betrayal, this is a mistake!“Professionals do not have the right to fail so shamefully, to prepare an operation so mediocre. Compare with the actions of German commandos under the control of Otto Skorzeny at the rescue of Mussolini.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 28 July 2013 00: 34 New
      0
      Also failed. Often enough. The usual thing for special operations
  • Massik
    Massik 27 July 2013 18: 22 New
    +3
    or they didn’t catch the eye of the soldiers of the Internal Troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs or border guards - both of them are special people, sharply sharpened for battle and shoot without reflection
    Yes we are, don’t give us bread to feed us, but what to do is boring ....
  • morpogr
    morpogr 27 July 2013 18: 39 New
    +1
    Our special forces is a universal soldier who must complete the task by any means and means. Remain alive. He is trained to think. Delta is apparently sharpened by his equipment and gadgets, and the headquarters thinks for them. The saying is true, power is not necessary.
  • Rodriques
    Rodriques 27 July 2013 19: 29 New
    +2
    Are you really being led to this kind of article? It's nice to read, I understand, I was engaged in orienteering at school, I still know the map from and to, do you think the guys from the special forces can only move along the ZhPS? It’s ridiculous. We will never know about their successful operations, nor about ours. Outside the USSR, RF.
  • Thunderbolt
    Thunderbolt 27 July 2013 19: 53 New
    +4
    Delta is not anti-terror, but intelligence-sabotage. The fact that they are attracted to the performance of tasks unusual for them is the problem of shell-shocked Pentagon generals.
    "Cats" managed to get lost immediately. And instead of moving along the route, our group had to look for these woe-supermen in the seaside taiga
    And this is their bread. He was wondering how they would be looked for.
    1. s1н7т
      s1н7т 27 July 2013 21: 55 New
      +1
      [quote = Stormbreaker] [/ quote] But this is their bread. They were interested in how they would be searched. [/ quote]
      Yeah, interesting - did you find it all the same? laughing But only combat swimmers will never look for them. Well, as I understand it, we are talking about MCI, and not for PDSS. They ran in vain laughing
      1. Thunderbolt
        Thunderbolt 27 July 2013 22: 34 New
        0
        Quote: c1n7
        They ran in vain
        Duc, the main thing is not the result, the main thing is the process itself)))
      2. roninas
        roninas 27 July 2013 23: 55 New
        +1
        “For life”, they would be searched for by specialists from the VV and the Ministry of Internal Affairs, “sharpened” to search for enemy DRGs. By the way, now there is experience, whatever one may say
        1. s1н7т
          s1н7т 28 July 2013 14: 19 New
          0
          Quote: roninas
          “For life”, they would be searched for by specialists from the VV and the Ministry of Internal Affairs, “sharpened” to search for enemy DRGs. By the way, now there is experience, whatever one may say

          So under "cats" it is PDSS, and not BB. And, by the way, where does it suddenly come from - “now is the experience”? Did you catch a lot of cats? laughing
          1. roninas
            roninas 28 July 2013 23: 41 New
            +1
            In the units of the internal troops, one of the tasks (many, according to the Nabat plan, I don’t know, can now be called differently) is the search and destruction of enemy sabotage and reconnaissance groups, if you are not aware of any of them, seagulls, green berets. About experience -In Chechnya what do cc? And what did you do? I served in 1987-89, so in the first year of service, our unit neutralized the deserters twice, once in the taiga they caught an armed gang (convicts escaped), once the hostages were released, and they looked for the forester who killed his family and all without losses, by the way. you most likely have in view actions in the sea, under water, this is another matter, but drgs are not thrown onto the beach, but with certain goals deep in the enemy’s territory
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Rodriques
    Rodriques 27 July 2013 20: 26 New
    +3
    Mlyn, minus members, have you even served in the army? Soldiers recruits conscripts without fail study military topography, what to speak of special forces, put a minus - justify, talk, no one will beat you. Or darling under the skin does not allow? wink
  • ewgeny22
    ewgeny22 27 July 2013 21: 05 New
    +1
    Normal article.
  • Revolver
    Revolver 27 July 2013 21: 19 New
    0
    It’s not for nothing that Bin Laden was trusted to water the Navy SEAL, and not Delta, although the sea didn’t smell of it.