Military Review

Glitter and poverty sudproma. VI International Naval Salon as a mirror of Russian shipbuilding

42
Glitter and poverty sudproma. VI International Naval Salon as a mirror of Russian shipbuildingOf course, the VI International Naval Salon (IMDS-2013) was the best among all held in St. Petersburg for ten years. The organizers and organizers tried to do everything to turn this exhibition into a review of advanced naval technology and at the same time a holiday. The show unfolded on the water, in the sky and on the earth's firmament. There were also aerobatic teams “Vityazi” with “Strizhi”, and firing of ship artillery systems at the Rzhevka training ground, and a magnificent jazz orchestra conducted by David Goloshchekin.


In the pavilions, electronic firms working in the shipbuilding industry set the tone. Concern NPO "Aurora", engaged in the creation of ship automation equipment, offered the Russian Navy a draft center for training naval specialists of various specialties for surface ships and submarines. By the way, in Vietnam, under the auspices of Aurora, such a training center for submariners will soon begin to operate. Crews will be trained there for six submarines of the 06361 project, which are currently being built at Admiralty shipyards for the Navy. The first of these boats will soon be handed over to the customer.

Concern of the Central Research Institute Elektropribor demonstrated its unique navigation devices, Oceanpribor, the latest hydroacoustics tools, Granit-Electron, radar stations and homing heads of anti-ship missiles. The Morinformsystem-Agat concern is creating a cluster in the Far East on the development of control systems for underwater robotics.

And in the open area of ​​the cabin, he demonstrated the enclosed Club-K missile system, designed to destroy naval and coastal targets.

USC CONFORMANCE DOES NOT DECORATE

But shipbuilders disappointed. For the second time in a row, the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) at the huge exhibition area arranges a common stand of enterprises belonging to this holding. The exhibitors themselves from USC behind the eyes called this exhibition "mass grave". And they are right, because to understand, at least from the first, who proposes what projects, and who builds what, was not possible. But potential foreign customers, whose attraction is primarily aimed at the salon, it is important to understand who they are dealing with. That is why the representatives of the companies belonging to the association were forced to arrange special tours to those corners of the vast USK stand, where their ship models were exhibited. Or they organized presentations of new projects. For example, the Sredne-Nevsky Shipbuilding Plant (SNSZ) presented a new road-sweeper minesweeper (RTSch) of the 10750 project with a displacement of 150 t. The assembly of the lead ship of this type will soon begin at the SNSZ for the Kazakhstan Navy.

The project of this FTS was created as an initiative of the Almaz Central Metallurgical Bureau, which owns the palm in terms of the number of projects of ships, ships and boats being built at various Russian shipyards, based on the minesweeper project 10750 “Sapphire”, developed in the Soviet era. But the project was radically reworked. In the monolithic fiberglass case - imported GAS mine detection Sea Bat Combo. Autonomous underwater vehicles Alister, K-Ster Inspector and K-Ster Mine Killer, too, as you might guess, of foreign origin, allow you to search and destroy mines ahead of the ship's course. The use of domestic contact and acoustic trawls is also envisaged, and the “Diez-E” automatic mine action control system, developed by the Morinformsystem-Agat concern, “conducts” with this complex economy.

Reproaches are already being made to this project. Like, there are too many foreign components in it. But what if the State Armaments Program until 2020 does not include funds for the development of mine-sweeping ships? But mines were the scourge of the Russian imperial fleet during the First World War and the Soviet Navy in the Baltic and the Black Sea during the Great Patriotic War.

The second novelty from USC is the anti-submarine ship “Sarsar” with a displacement of about 900 t developed by Zelenodolsk PKB. It was created on the basis of the small rocket ship project 21631 "Buyan-M". His main weapon - anti-submarine complex "Package-NK" or two 533-mm double-tube torpedo tubes for firing anti-submarine torpedoes. For the detection of submarines, a sap-like GAS is used. There are also 57 mm A220M artillery mounts, machine guns and unmanned aviation complex "Horizon Air S-100". But the anti-aircraft weapons of this tightly arranged small corvette look clearly archaic, since it is supposed to use the Osa-MA air defense system to ensure air defense. There is no word, when this complex appeared 40 years ago, then it was the last word of means of defense against an air enemy at close borders. Today, this single-channel air defense system is unlikely to cope with modern anti-ship missiles. But the choice in favor of Osa-MA is compelled. The domestic industry has not yet given the fleet a short-range air defense system that would meet the requirements of combating an air enemy in the XNUMXst century.

However, the situation may change. As an initiative, the Izhevsk Electromechanical Plant Kupol, which is part of the Almaz-Antey Air Defense Concern, suggests that the Tor-МХNUMXМКМ air defense system be deployed. This multichannel modular construction complex is designed for aerodynamic purposes of all classes at 2 – 1000 15 m ranges and altitudes from 000 to 10 10 m in a difficult noise and meteorological environment. The complex "Tor-М000МКМ" is successfully operated in the army. And to create a marine version will take a short time and not very large funds. Still, without government funding, this process may be delayed.

MONEY DOES NOT GUARANTEE THE SOLUTIONS OF ALL PROBLEMS

True, government funding does not always help. In the harbor, the flagship of the Russian exposition at IMDS-2013 was the Corvette “Boyky”, built at the Northern shipyard, of the 20380 project developed by the Almaz Central Metallurgical Bureau. He surrendered to the fleet in May of this year. However, this well-balanced and elegant ship, in the architecture and design of which the newest technologies of low visibility are introduced, is not fully equipped. It is missing the “Redut” air defense missile system, which is supposed to be supplied by the Almaz-Antey air defense concern. As the newspaper already noted (“NVO” No. 20 from 14.07.13), the stumbling block is the Furke radar, which does not cope with the guidance of the missiles at the target. Without Reduta, the first serial corvette of this type, “Savvy”, serves. The Corvette “Resistant”, which is being prepared for testing at the Northern shipyard, will not receive it yet. By the way, “Furke” cannot cope with aiming the missile “Kortik-M” on the target of the corvette “Steregushchy” - the lead ship of the series.

In general, the Russian Navy and the Coast Guard of the Border Guard Service of the FSB were represented at the 2013 cabin of the year by “live” ships and boats, than in previous years. Suffice it to say that their total displacement was more than twice less than the displacement of two Dutch ships arriving at the IMDS: the frigate Evertsen and the diesel-electric submarine Dolphin. The frigate of the Royal Netherlands Navy has become the brightest star in the cabin. He is among the best in its class. With a displacement of more than 6000 tons, the ship carries powerful and well-balanced armament: anti-ship and anti-aircraft missiles, 127-mm automatic artillery, anti-submarine torpedoes, X-NUMX-mm multi-line defense of the near line, a helicopter. But the highlight of the ship - the radar SMART-L company Thales Nederland. It operates on air targets located at a distance of up to 30 km, while it also tracks up to 400 aircraft and up to 1000 offshore facilities.

However, soon the Evertsen and three other ships of this type will have to be upgraded, which will mainly concern the improvement of radio equipment. The capabilities of the SMART-L radar will be significantly expanded. They will be able to detect ballistic missiles at a distance of more than 1000 km. Thus, the Dutch frigates will become elements of the European missile defense system being created by the United States and its NATO allies.

Evertsen could have been competed by the Russian frigate “Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Gorshkov”, the leading 22350 project developed by the Northern PKB, which was planned to take part in IMDS-2013 a year ago. But, alas, he was not in the harbor. The absence was due to the "start of mooring trials" of the ship at the Northern shipyard. But in reality, due to delays in the supply of components and weapons, primarily the Polynom Redut missile system, the frigate is simply not ready for demonstration shows.

It became known at the salon that the command of the Russian Navy does not preclude an increase in the number of construction of the 11356P / M frigates of the Northern PKB design from six to nine units. In terms of their tactical and technical characteristics and armament, they are inferior to the frigates of the 22350 project, but they are well mastered by the industry: the Baltic shipbuilding plant Yantar, where they are currently being assembled, and the companies supplying components and armaments. Unfortunately, the finishing of the Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Gorshkov, the Admiral of the Fleet of Kasaton and the Admiral Golovko frigates of the 22350 project may be delayed until the fleet needs warships urgently. Therefore, if a decision is made to increase the order for the frigates of the 11356Р / M project, this will be, albeit a forced, but surest step.

MORE SHIPS GOOD AND DIFFERENT

It also became known at the salon that the Ministry of Defense and the fleet was once again awakened by an interest in amphibious assault ships of the Zubr and Murena type, developed by the Almaz Central Design Bureau. As Deputy Defense Minister Yury Borisov noted, “in the context of fleeting conflicts that are predicted for the next 10 – 20 years, such vessels will quickly deliver equipment and troops to the right place.” According to some sources, the contract with the St. Petersburg shipbuilding firm Almaz on the construction of the Zubr is almost ready. They, of course, will be different from the DKVP project 12322, which were created in Soviet times. They will be equipped with modern means of control and communication. It seems that interest in the DKVP initiated a Chinese order to Ukraine for such ships. The Mores Theodosia Plant has already handed over the head of the Bison-type DKVP, the counterfeit version of the Bison, to the Navy of the People’s Liberation Army of China, and the second building on the stocks. Then the production will be transferred to the Celestial Empire, to which Kiev illegally transferred all the technical documentation belonging to the Almaz Central Securities and Design Bureau.

A large program of modernization of the ships of the Russian fleet is carried out on the stocks of the Severodvinsk Ship Repair Center "Zvezdochka". On the eve of the opening of the St. Petersburg salon after the repair, the Marshal Ustinov missile cruiser of the 1164 Atlant project of the Northern PKB was launched. Next year, after finishing work, he will return to the Navy, then the same type of cruisers “Moscow” and “Varyag” will be modernized at this plant. Finally, funding was opened and repair work began on the strategic nuclear-powered submarine cruiser Yekaterinburg, which was seriously affected by the December 2011 fire (for more details, see NVO No. 46 for 2012 a year). A deep modernization of the Tigr nuclear submarine of the 971 project developed by the Malachite SPMBM is being carried out at Zvezdochka. According to authoritative sources, this submarine and other boats of this type will be brought up to the level of the 4 + generation, that is, they will even surpass the newest multi-purpose submarine "Severodvinsk" of the 885 "Ash" project for a number of characteristics.

At the salon, it also became known that Rosoboronexport is in talks with Algeria to supply the Navy of this country with two more diesel-electric submarines of the 636 project developed by the TsBB MT Rubin. Earlier, four such submarines were built at the Admiralty shipyards for the fleet of this Arab state. Other news concerned the upcoming deliveries in Nicaragua of two 12418 “Molniya” missile boats and four patrol boats of the 14310 “Mirage” project (both developed by the Almaz Central Design Bureau), which will be built at the SNMP and the Vympel shipyard in Rybinsk. The total portfolio of orders for Russian naval equipment destined for shipments abroad, according to Deputy Director General of Rosoboronexport Igor Sevastyanov, is about $ 8 billion, that is, 18% of total exports of military products.

But back to the quayside harbor. The only “live” novelty of the Russian exposition at the cabin was the boat of the modernized 12150 “Mongoose” project developed by the Almaz Central Design Bureau and the Vympel plant building. This 25-ton speed walker, which develops the 50-node passage and is intended for the special forces of the Navy, differs markedly from the prototype, from which only the hull lines, engines and part of the navigation equipment remain. The architecture has changed, the volume and comfort of the rooms have increased. In the nose of the appeared remote-controlled machine gun. The boat, of course, is not a frigate, but still it was nice to meet him.

The Petersburg salon confirmed the tendency of increasing the number of ships being built for the Navy and the Coast Guard by enterprises that are not part of the USC (see “NVO” No. 20 for 2013 year). In total, eight pennants belonging to these law enforcement agencies arrived at IMDS-2013. Of these, only the “Boky” corvette was built by the Northern shipyard, that is, the plant from the USC team. All other seven units (small artillery ship "Makhachkala" of the 21630 project, anti-diversion boat П-104 of the 21980 project "Rook", amphibious assault boat D-67 of the 11770 "Serna" project, border boats of the 12200 "Sobol" project and 12150 "Mangust" project, the small hydrographic vessel “Vaigach” of the 19910 project, as well as the upgraded Mongoose already mentioned above for the Navy special forces) were built by outsiders, that is, not included in the shipbuilding holding. True, all these ships and boats are designed by the design bureau of the USC. But after all, there were no “free” design bureaus, in any case capable of designing warships and boats, with rare exceptions.

At the end of last year, the Zelenodolsk plant named after A.M., not part of the USK, broke into the leaders of the domestic surface shipbuilding. Gorky. He handed over to the Navy the rocket ship 2 of the “Dagestan” rank, two anti-sabotage boats and a sea tug. The plant closed its warranty obligations to the Vietnamese Navy, for which it built two frigates of the type "Cheetah-3.9". And this year the company took a high rate. On the Black Sea, tests of the next anti-sabotage Grachonka are being conducted, and on the Caspian Sea, in the days of IMDS-2013, tests of the small rocket ship Grad Sviyazhsk, the main 21631 project Buyan-M, began. Soon, the second MRK - Uglich will go to the Caspian Sea. It is assumed that by the end of the year they will become part of the Navy. And in August, the laying of the sixth ship of this type will take place. On the building berth of the plant is the border patrol ship 1 of the 22100 “Ocean” project. At the salon in St. Petersburg, the plant showed mainly its export capabilities. It is understandable. In September of this year, the company will begin construction of a second pair of frigates for the Vietnamese Navy.

FLOATING AIRFIELD REMAINS IN DREAMS

Large surface ships and nuclear submarines while being built with us painfully and for a long time. Against the background of this circumstance, speeches on IMDS-2013 about Russia's readiness to build an aircraft carrier sounded somewhat ridiculous. In a part of the Krylov State Research Center (KGNC) exposition closed to the public, a conceptual model of a promising Russian floating aerodrome was even demonstrated. This is a ship with a displacement of the order of 80 000 t, carrying 40 fighter jets MiG-29K and the suspended version of the PAK FA (T-50). A nonatomic power plant should provide an 30-node stroke. And the air group, and the GEM raise questions. First, the work on the T-50 for the Air Force is far from complete. Secondly, it will take more years to create the deck version of the aircraft. The machine itself is heavy, its take-off weight is 26 – 30 t. Its dimensions are also rather big: length is 19,4 m, height is 4,8 m, and wingspan is 14 m. Obviously, this is why this large aircraft carrier can take only four dozen aircraft.

Confused by the choice of the GEM. Why is she nonatomic? Do they really want to place the boiler-turbine installations on which the Admiral Kuznetsov suffers and from which Vikramaditya suffered? At MVMS-2013, NPO Saturn demonstrated a dual-fuel gas turbine engine of the marine execution E70 / 8РД. His bench tests ended at the end of last year. But this GTE has not yet worked on "live" ships.

The refusal of a nuclear power plant can be explained by its high cost. And without it, the estimated cost of the Krylov aircraft carrier is impressive - 400 billion rubles, that is, 12,5 billion dollars. In other words, it is comparable to the cost of creating a new American nuclear aircraft carrier "Gerald Ford". Only that opportunity will have at least twice as much as the Russian ship - at the expense of twice the largest air group, nuclear power plant, full electrification of the ship’s aggregates, the availability of electromagnetic catapults and the network-centric data exchange system. The sum of expenses for the KGNC aircraft carrier does not take into account the costs of building or upgrading a shipyard for assembling such a giant, for training shipbuilders, sailors and pilots, for developing aircraft, including those that have not been implemented in our country, for example , carrier-based long-range detection and guidance aircraft.

The architecture and design of the Krylov aircraft carrier are unusual. If the two islands on the starboard side are borrowed from British aircraft carriers such as the Queen Elizabeth, then catapults and two springboards for the take-off of aircraft are a purely domestic invention. Although this musical and tractor solution can be found an explanation. The developers themselves do not believe in the possibility of creating reliable steam catapults, not to mention electromagnetic, which, because of the absence of an atomic power plant, simply do not have enough energy.

The construction of an aircraft carrier, if it does begin, will become a long-running “Panama” for cutting state funds, before which the Sochi Olympics will fade, and destroy domestic shipbuilding, which is hardly restored after the failure of 90, the first decade of 2000. After all, there will simply be no money left for other shipbuilding programs.

And at the IMMS, more than once or twice there were speeches about the growing power of the Russian Navy. “During this year, 36 warships, combat boats, auxiliary vessels will be accepted into the Russian Navy,” Vice-Admiral Alexander Fedotenkov, deputy commander-in-chief of the Navy, said at a press conference on the completion of the cabin. “This has never happened before.” This was the case at the end of 50, in 60, in 70, and in 80. But the structure of the replenishment of the Navy, the admiral did not bother to decipher. Of the 36 units that he talked about, the majority will be small auxiliary vessels and boats (offshore tugs, diving boats, integrated port service vessels, and so on). The fleet really needs them, but it also needs warships. This year, the industry promises to commission two 955 SSBNs, one of which was to appear as part of the Navy last year, one 885 multi-purpose submarine of the 21631 project, also from last year’s “stock”, two 20380 IRAs, several anti-submarine boats and, maybe Corvette "Resistant" project XNUMX. This, of course, is quite a lot, considering the failed results of the past years, but still not enough to return to the fleet the status corresponding to the status of a great maritime power.
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  1. Recon
    Recon 27 July 2013 07: 33 New
    13
    Give them a little more time, in fact, all the activity started 3-4 years ago.
    1. PPL
      PPL 27 July 2013 08: 38 New
      11
      Quote: Recon
      all activity started 3-4 years ago.

      IMDS have been held since 2003 - this is the 6th exhibition!
      1. PPL
        PPL 27 July 2013 12: 58 New
        11
        Lyrical digression!
        Dear visitors of the site, can anyone explain why for stating the fact
        Quote: PPZ
        IMDS have been held since 2003 - this is the 6th exhibition!
        put a minus? Is that customary here?
        1. Recon
          Recon 27 July 2013 17: 43 New
          +8
          there are organisms that minus just like that, for fun. or out of principle.
          1. Arberes
            Arberes 27 July 2013 18: 52 New
            +3
            Quote: Recon
            why for stating a fact

            Quote: Recon
            put a minus?

            Here we can only guess ??? hi

            Quote: Recon
            there are organismsthat minus just like that

            Escherichia coli ??? drinks
          2. Dober
            Dober 27 July 2013 19: 33 New
            0
            Quote: Recon
            which minus just for fun. or out of principle.

            Yeah nooo guys. Just someone thinks that such events were not 6, but 7 or 5.
            It’s like a couple of times I watched the “health” program on Channel 1. There, the presenters ask the Rotozeys. "Whoever hurts - press the red button, those who don’t have it - the green one. And who doesn’t understand where he got to, where he has what's in trouble and why he was born - click on the yellow one."
            So here, maybe as in "sportloto" - "3 times click on" + ", then once on" - ", then repeat two times and more ..." System !!!
          3. iSpoiler
            iSpoiler 27 July 2013 19: 51 New
            +1
            Parasites))
        2. S-200
          S-200 27 July 2013 21: 04 New
          -5
          urea-pedriotic earhooks ... foolwell, just morons
          never serving and never working .... negative
          except for ... the management and the others.Participants of the paid eltsYnskav spill
    2. Very old
      Very old 27 July 2013 09: 33 New
      +1
      Nikita, here I clicked "answer" and answer. And for the collapse of someone? + For your wish
    3. starshina78
      starshina78 27 July 2013 18: 54 New
      +4
      With the collapse of the USSR, we lost the main shipyard for the construction of large ships - this is a shipyard in Ukraine. All the large ships of the Navy of the USSR were built there. It is not time to cast aside all the political ambitions of our leadership and give the green light to the construction of large ships, such as a frigate, in Ukraine. Our shipbuilders cannot cope, and they are inundated with orders from abroad: we are building Vietnam, we are building India, but nothing for ourselves. It is not good !
    4. TRex
      TRex 27 July 2013 21: 03 New
      +2
      In short - against the backdrop of all this brilliance, sheer poverty! Where are the new ships? Where are the new ideas? Looking forward to with 2014? He's already on the nose ...
  2. Far East
    Far East 27 July 2013 08: 13 New
    +6
    Quote: Recon
    Give them a little more time, in fact, all the activity started 3-4 years ago.

    and money! lol repeat
    1. il grand casino
      il grand casino 27 July 2013 08: 24 New
      10
      It’s dangerous to give money))) In the place where there are a lot of them, Taburetkins may be envious
    2. 755962
      755962 27 July 2013 12: 21 New
      +8
      Give them some more time.

      Quote: Far East
      and money!

      And specialists, and personnel, specialized training, teachers, scientists and engineers? You can’t print this on a printer machine .. These are living people!
      FRAMES RESOLVE EVERYTHING !!
  3. PPL
    PPL 27 July 2013 08: 31 New
    +1
    The exhibition is necessary, but participation in it is very expensive (more expensive than participation at MAKS). Many enterprises that work in the interests of the Navy are not exhibited for this very reason.
  4. Master Taiga
    Master Taiga 27 July 2013 09: 20 New
    16
    I want to remind you: in 2000, after the Kursk tragedy, Putin promised to restore the Fleet. Then, despite the 90s, it was a large and modern Fleet, inherited from the USSR. Almost 14 years have passed. All the same ships, the fleet declined and grew old. My friend at the Pacific Fleet is serving, as he said this, that for the whole evening he caught up with longing. He says all the ships are Soviet-built. There are no new ones at all, and those that are under repair for 6 years.
    1. Constantine
      Constantine 27 July 2013 10: 45 New
      -6
      Quote: Taiga Master
      I want to remind you: in 2000, after the Kursk tragedy, Putin promised to restore the Fleet. Then, despite the 90s, it was a large and modern Fleet, inherited from the USSR. Almost 14 years have passed. All the same ships, the fleet declined and grew old. My friend at the Pacific Fleet is serving, as he said this, that for the whole evening he caught up with longing. He says all the ships are Soviet-built. There are no new ones at all, and those that are under repair for 6 years.


      We’re some kind of ubiquitous lol
      1. Master Taiga
        Master Taiga 27 July 2013 15: 22 New
        +1
        Envy is bad.
        1. Constantine
          Constantine 27 July 2013 15: 45 New
          0
          Quote: Taiga Master
          Envy is bad.


          Well, yes, they don’t give me a barrel of jam and a basket of cookies.
    2. knn54
      knn54 27 July 2013 20: 10 New
      +3
      NO COMMENTS:
      The number of naval warships
      (without special purpose ships and auxiliary vessels)
      Warships (PL and NK) 1985 1991 1998 2003 2005 2010
      submarines
      ракетные крейсера СН 68 62 27 16 15 10
      многоцелевые атомные 120 95 30 20 20 10
      многоцелевые дизельные 220 130 30 25 20 10
      Всего подводных лодок 408 287 87 61 55 30
      surface ships
      авианесущие 3 5 2 1 1 1
      artillery and anti-submarine missiles of the ocean and sea zones --------------------- 380 330 130 70 50 20
      minesweepers 200 130 50 40 40 15
      landing 120 110 40 35 30 10
      Total ships 703 575 220 146 121 46
      combat boats
      ракетно-артилирические 170 160 45 40 40 20
      anti-submarine, landing and other purposes -------------- - 280 210 70 40 30 30
      Всего боевых катеров 450 370 115 80 70 60
      In total, the military personnel 1561 1230 422 297 241 136
      ________________________________________
  5. Dober
    Dober 27 July 2013 09: 25 New
    +7
    There are many ideas and projects. But, unfortunately, more often in the form of model toys.
    http://vitalykuzmin.net/?q=node/376

    But the photo from this "salon" -
    http://www.liveinternet.ru/users/timemechanic/post247322359/

    http://thewaran.livejournal.com/22527.html

    The patrol ship "SARSAR" is handsome. Graceful as an “Abramovich’s yacht” and brutal as a “gray wolf pup”
    1

    2


    But this causes, at least, "misunderstanding"
    On frigate "Hr Ms Evertsen" guys of different ages and different builds, as well as very pretty girls, serve as contract sailors. They eat excellently. Interestingly, they do not have team eating. For breakfast, lunch and dinner, certain time intervals are given in which you can come to the wardroom and eat the portion you have. If you suddenly wanted to additionally make yourself fried eggs or fry potatoes - no problem. In the galley, you will always be allocated a small tile for individual cooking.

    And a feature that is absolutely amazing for our sailors — when the frigate arrives at its base, the crew must leave the ship almost immediately — everyone leaves for their well-deserved holidays. The land crew arrives on the ship, which cleans the cabins, carries out maintenance work and prepares the ship for the next trip.

    In St. Petersburg, the crew of the frigate "Hr Ms Evertsen" behaved very freely, not at all complexing. Sailors went to the city in shorts and slippers on their bare feet, of course, in civilian clothes. On the frigate itself, life did not stop, it seems, around the clock. At four o'clock in the morning, a choir singing of merry voices was sometimes heard at the stern. Without condemning the crew at all, one can envy them with some kind of conscious liberty.
    Immediately at the pier was our “Boyky” corvette, which even seemed to be a “flying Dutchman” in the port. From eight in the evening until eight in the morning, the corvette looked simply uninhabited.
    1. Flooding
      Flooding 27 July 2013 12: 50 New
      +2
      Quote: Dober
      The patrol ship "SARSAR" is handsome. Graceful as an “Abramovich’s yacht” and brutal as a “gray wolf pup”

      Still, it means patrol and not anti-submarine ...
      1. Dober
        Dober 27 July 2013 20: 41 New
        +1
        Quote: Flood
        Still means patrol

        On the "anti-submarine" does not "pull" either in armament (alleged) or displacement.
        1xA-220M
        1x Bend + MANPADS Needle
        2x14,5 MTPU
        Possible armament SAM Shtil-1 2x3S90E1, Caliber-NKE or 2xUran

        And so, it can quite snap ...

        Yes, this model has been transported everywhere for three years already, and even the bodies themselves have not been welded. Already there would be concluded contracts with Nigeria and Benin, but those need "real iron", and not polystyrene. Last year, they ordered from the French, from the Ocea company in Saint-Nazaire, 24 ships with close performance characteristics.
    2. Nayhas
      Nayhas 27 July 2013 22: 21 New
      0
      Quote: Dober
      But this causes, at least, "misunderstanding"

      Civil courts operate under this scheme. The team is engaged only in operation, and technical support only by ground specialists. For example, if something is broken, the ship's mechanics do not repair anything, only the coast team ...
  6. Constantine
    Constantine 27 July 2013 09: 28 New
    -5
    Material, of course, with peppercorn. To put it mildly. Although nothing else from the publication, which was part of Berezovsky’s media holding I had not expected. Although the so-called "Independent Military Review"and a little more independent than"Independent newspaper", but the course of thin and thick trolling of Russia and its army takes place. sad

    I have a question, in the form of such articles, recently one. Which of the moderators skips articles and frank misinformation from resources that unequivocally serve Western interests and pursue anti-Russian politics? As admins generally allowed readers to use this information on this resource, few people look at the sources and trust the resource, which in turn forms public opinion to please the West. Admins! Aw! What the hell ?! sad
    1. Dober
      Dober 27 July 2013 09: 41 New
      +7
      Quote: Constantine
      Material, of course, with peppercorn.

      Would you all be "sweet"? After all, you know the proverb about "halva-halva ...".
      Do you perceive criticism in any way?
      After pictures of the "American and Israeli military" dragged here by the so-called "professor" with whom he wants to show anything, but just not respect for Russian readers, such as your calls to administrators for some reason do not appear ...
      Write the articles yourself for the site or offer "cheers-patriotic" - we read, see, ponder ... hi
    2. kris
      kris 27 July 2013 10: 21 New
      +8
      Quote: Constantine
      How admins generally allowed this resource to be pumped with similar information from readers,

      Well, of course, reading this is not so nice numerous daily odes about the greatness of Putin!
      and the moderators are cutting so much. not one article about problematic topics was hacked down.
      or do you propose to print only sweet campaigns about prospects before 2012, then 2015, now 2020, and some have already started talking about 2035?
      1. Constantine
        Constantine 27 July 2013 10: 31 New
        -1
        2 kris

        If you think that the materials of the same tape with cosmic figures and unconfirmed data are true, then I am sincerely sorry for you.

        2 dober

        Quote: Dober
        Would you all be "sweet"? After all, you know the proverb about "halva-halva ...".
        Do you perceive criticism in any way?


        I take criticism when it comes from neutral sources that are not “interested” in either one side or the other side’s victory. Criticism from independent experts. What I see here is pro-Western crap, which is written on Western money for the specific purpose of forming the necessary opinion among the Russian population.

        I am not against criticism, but not from those sources that feed on Western money and serve Western interests. smile
        1. urganov
          urganov 27 July 2013 13: 04 New
          +3
          Yes Yes. And to ask: And what color was the pencil of the writer of this article? And then suddenly it is the wrong color?
          The essence of the above is unimportant, did I understand you correctly?
          1. Constantine
            Constantine 27 July 2013 14: 00 New
            -3
            Quote: urganov
            Yes Yes. And to ask: And what color was the pencil of the writer of this article? And then suddenly it is the wrong color?
            The essence of the above is unimportant, did I understand you correctly?


            You understood me the way you wanted to understand. The bottom line is that the same information can be presented in very different ways, only one, out of context, will sound like “it's all gone - the plaster is removed,” and the second, without breaking the context, will sound like “a lot is lost, but they got down to business. We need to be patient a little and everything will be. " It seems the same information, but the opinion forms completely different. So, for example, the first fosters hatred of the state, belittles the authority of the army and navy, and the second does not deny that everything is not smooth, but sets a more positive tone, which, incidentally, is more true.

            Over the past decades, many of our fellow citizens have developed a moronic habit. If everything is fine, or if we win, pretend that nothing special is happening, but if something suddenly went wrong, then what is the light to scold everyone in a row, to spread rot on the information field and throw poop on the fan. It is not right. This is not in Russian. Any self-respecting nation rejoices in its victories and supports during defeats. These articles of us do not make a normal nation, whose morality is decaying, but it itself rushes at great speed into the wall. Do you support such pen figures? Me not. hi
    3. Arberes
      Arberes 27 July 2013 11: 37 New
      +8
      Quote: Constantine
      Although the so-called Independent Military Review and a little more independent than Independent Newspaper, but the course of thin and thick trolling of Russia and its army is taking place.

      What are enemies around again? How convenient is it to blame everything on them?

      Quote: Constantine
      I have a question, in the form of such articles, recently one. Which of the moderators miss articles and frank misinformation from resources that clearly serve Western interests and pursue anti-Russian policies?

      And the moderators have to do with it, that they also destroyed the fleet ???
      Normal article about our Navy. Without any errors and self-deception. This mess of perestroika-Yeltsin lasted too long, so that everything would become so good right away?
      Any sane person watching the news about our fleet and shipbuilding sees what is happening to him. So far, there are very few reasons for the manifestation of stormy positive emotions!
      But this is not a reason for putting on mourning and sprinkling ash on your head.
      We must go forward and recover!
      It is not yet known which articles do more harm with pink saliva or more or less reflect the real situation in shipbuilding and our Navy.
      1. Constantine
        Constantine 27 July 2013 11: 48 New
        -2
        Quote: Arberes
        What are enemies around again? How convenient is it to blame everything on them?


        Well, if the wards Berezovsky for you, this explains a lot. smile

        Quote: Arberes
        And the moderators have to do with it, that they also destroyed the fleet ???
        Normal article about our Navy. Without any errors and self-deception. This mess of perestroika-Yeltsin lasted too long, so that everything would become so good right away?
        Any sane person watching the news about our fleet and shipbuilding sees what is happening to him. So far, there are very few reasons for the manifestation of stormy positive emotions!
        But this is not a reason for putting on mourning and sprinkling ash on your head.
        We must go forward and recover!
        It is not yet known which articles do more harm with pink saliva or more or less reflect the real situation in shipbuilding and our Navy.


        The task of moderators is to check the material for accuracy and either skip or not skip. Given the context and the specifics of the source, skipping such material is to throw poop on the fan and strengthen people in the opinion that they are "prosralipolymers", although there are positive shifts about which, as a rule, the authors are silent. Still, the task is to escalate the negative and hatred of the authorities.

        After the first conclusion, your position does not surprise me at all. You can minus further, this will not affect my opinion about you and your colleagues on the keyboard, as well as about what such articles lead to. Ideological enemies - they are also enemies in Africa. smile
        1. Arberes
          Arberes 27 July 2013 11: 58 New
          +3
          Quote: Constantine
          Well, if Berezovsky’s wards are your own, then this explains a lot.

          Label with Berezovsky This is of course a powerful trump card.

          Quote: Constantine
          Ideological enemies - they are also enemies in Africa.

          I actually thought so about you!
          Enemies all around, how do you poor get along with us? Not scary?
          1. Constantine
            Constantine 27 July 2013 12: 06 New
            -2
            Quote: Arberes
            A shortcut with Berezovsky is certainly a powerful trump card.


            Given the set of his instruments of influence on the Russians, as well as the direct relation of the source to Berezovsky, yes. The fact that Berezovsky was behind the newspaper for a long time is a powerful argument since this man never just did nothing and used all available means to achieve his goals, and accordingly this publication as well. If you don’t see “anything like that” in this, then you support the work of this instrument of influence on the information field of the Military Review. Everything is simple. wink

            I actually thought so about you!
            Enemies all around, how do you poor get along with us? Not scary?


            Designated each other on the ground and well. Now it will be exactly known what to expect from each other. wink

            Regarding "scary" and "how to get along") I am Russian and that says it all. The enemy is not so terrible as what will follow him if he is not opposed. smile
            1. Arberes
              Arberes 27 July 2013 12: 21 New
              +4
              Quote: Constantine
              Given the set of his instruments of influence on the Russians, as well as the direct relation of the source to Berezovsky, yes.

              RUSSIANS-people are not stupid and are still able to draw adequate conclusions for themselves - in spite of any articles from different publications from Berezovsky or someone else!

              Quote: Constantine
              Now it will be exactly known what to expect from each other.

              And what will you expect from me? I’ll tell you honestly on this article you have my minuses, but this does not mean that I will minus you everywhere and everywhere as the worst the enemy!


              Quote: Constantine
              I am Russian and that’s it. The enemy is not so terrible as what will follow him if he is not opposed.

              Surprisingly, I am RUSSIAN! What a coincidence !!!
              Live easier, don’t put shortcuts on your opponents and all your enemies will disappear in your virtual world!
              Thank you for the time you spent on my person. hi
              1. Constantine
                Constantine 27 July 2013 12: 29 New
                +2
                Quote: Arberes
                RUSSIANS-people are not stupid and are still able to draw adequate conclusions for themselves - in spite of any articles from various publications from Berezovsky or anyone else!


                You greatly underestimate the results of 20 years of work with the opinions of citizens and their intelligence.

                Quote: Arberes
                And what will you expect from me? I will tell you honestly on this article that you have my minuses, but this does not mean that I will minus you everywhere and everywhere as my worst enemy!


                Similarly. I will just know the motion vector and polarization. An approximate algorithm of actions.

                Quote: Arberes
                wonderful, but I am RUSSIAN! What a coincidence !!!
                Live easier, don’t put shortcuts on your opponents and all your enemies will disappear in your virtual world!
                Thank you for the time you spent on my person.


                Mutually hi
        2. baltika-18
          baltika-18 27 July 2013 15: 27 New
          +4
          Quote: Constantine
          Ideological enemies - they are also enemies in Africa.

          What is your idea?
          1. Constantine
            Constantine 27 July 2013 15: 56 New
            0
            Quote: baltika-18
            Quote: Constantine
            Ideological enemies - they are also enemies in Africa.

            What is your idea?


            Now, I suspect, the minuses will again fly because cutting out dissent is an integral attribute, but I’ll say it anyway.

            My idea, in this case, is to prevent the formation of a negative opinion about the current situation in the country and to prevent the “non-worthy” from escalating hatred of their state, as well as an inferiority complex with respect to the brave Western partners. Hatred of the eastern and southern neighbors and many other opinions that are artificially imposed with the help of certain manipulation technologies and in the long run can lead to disastrous consequences.

            In this particular case, the source of the article is a foreign agent of influence, who fed Western grants through the BAB, and now, with a high degree of probability, feed on the same money, with the same goals, but through different hands. smile

            I really do not care how many minuses you are throwing me here and how many Russophobia advocates will be pulled here because the policy of sawing me out, as well as the support of the dwellers and others, is simply obvious, but if my actions and words make me think about the reason for writing such articles and the reason for the bombardment of Military Review with materials from foreign influence agents, then for myself, I can consider that won.
  7. dustycat
    dustycat 27 July 2013 10: 29 New
    +3
    Unfortunately, the refinement of the frigates “Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Gorshkov”, “Admiral of the Fleet Kasatonov” and “Admiral Golovko” of project 22350 may be delayed, while the fleet needs warships urgently. Therefore, if a decision is made to increase the order for frigates of Project 11356P / M, then this will be, although a forced, but the right step.

    Shaw!? Again ?!
    Again "if something faster" and again a fleet of unknown destination?
    Can it be more sensible for the “effective managers” of the suppliers to direct them to sawing courses, and courses for cutting and sewing at the heels of years?
  8. ed65b
    ed65b 27 July 2013 10: 30 New
    0
    The rejection of a nuclear power plant can be explained by its high cost. And even without it, the estimated cost of the Krylov aircraft carrier is impressive - 400 billion rubles, that is, 12,5 billion dollars. In other words, it is comparable to the cost of creating a new American nuclear carrier “Gerald Ford”. Only that will have at least twice as many opportunities as a Russian ship - due to a twice as large air group, nuclear power plant, complete electrification of the ship’s units, the presence of electromagnetic catapults and a network-centric data exchange system.

    Or can we, as in the good old days of the tsar’s king, order an American for this money? We drive cars from the USA and are not buzzing.
    1. True
      True 27 July 2013 11: 22 New
      +4
      Do you offer to BUY a Trojan horse? No, let them give then wink
    2. Konsmo
      Konsmo 27 July 2013 11: 44 New
      +3
      We ride, but if something happens, the guns will have to be transported to Niva and UAZ.
  9. Xroft
    Xroft 27 July 2013 11: 04 New
    +3
    The construction of an aircraft carrier, if it does begin, will become a long-running “Panama” for cutting state funds, before which the Sochi Olympics will fade, and destroy domestic shipbuilding, which is hardly restored after the failure of 90, the first decade of 2000. After all, there will simply be no money left for other shipbuilding programs.

    That's for sure, to all dreamers about aircraft carriers. It is necessary to carry out gradual real work to return to the fleet the quantitative composition and quality of work / repair. And then in 15-20 years we can do the aircraft carrier.
    1. homosum20
      homosum20 27 July 2013 11: 55 New
      +3
      Nikita Sergeevich was going to build socialism in 20 years. And you are an aircraft carrier. Swim fine.
      And the second - will anyone build it in 20 years? Are you going to live forever?
  10. Konsmo
    Konsmo 27 July 2013 12: 08 New
    12
    The revival of the fleet should begin with the recruitment of children in vocational schools and technical schools and learn how to hold a broomstick and personal file in their hands. Pay them a herd, dress, feed. And then equip these schools with machines and robots.
    Bring to the factories by the handle. Giving mentors. Paying from 30-40 thousand. Then in 5-7 years it will be more fun. Also, good students of institutes.
    I remember the kid dumped home quietly from practice. He was already at the bus stop, and then the head of the laboratory came up to me where he went to practice. I think he disappeared. He will knock everyone, and then they will give me an annoyance. So, to my surprise, he starts to get me to work after graduation, that I would come to them at the Institute of Vacuum Technology. We were engaged in manufacturing silicon wafers for microcircuits there. I was in shock. And I was thinking for what merit.
    I remember looking at people who looked at the oscilloscope and an electron microscope as gods.
    I was then invited to Kir Pyr. There, the sea was also interesting for electronics. But already before the army, I worked for 1 year, I realized that it was not the gods who poured into pots and that everything could be mastered.
  11. Zomanus
    Zomanus 27 July 2013 14: 43 New
    +4
    About foreign weapons. When on the battlefield you run out of cartridges for AK, you and the M-16 in working condition will be happy ... Here it is. While we don’t have ours, we will work out technologies on someone else’s. That would then make your own, taking into account the experience gained. About the aircraft carrier honestly pulled up already. For the aircraft carrier and aircraft, new needs to be done, and new types of aircraft to add other equipment. This is a completely separate industry. We have not enough strength for this yet. For now, we must strive for a complete replacement of old weapons and equipment in the troops.
  12. orek
    orek 27 July 2013 14: 47 New
    +4
    Quote: Konsmo
    The revival of the fleet should begin with the recruitment of children in vocational schools and technical schools and learn how to hold a drastic and personal file

    The revival of something should begin with the upbringing of patriotism and the revival of pride in one’s COUNTRY, changing priorities in the values ​​of professions and educational institutions, reviving the mentoring system in enterprises (it’s practically destroyed. The “effective owner” does not want to invest money in it. For some perverted concept, he thinks that high-class specialists will pack in batches - he only needs to whistle). And also stop calling bribe takers and embezzlers - ineffective managers. A thief should sit in jail!!!
  13. pinecone
    pinecone 27 July 2013 14: 51 New
    +2
    [quote = homosum20] Nikita Sergeevich was going to build socialism in 20 years. / quote]

    The construction of socialism in the USSR was announced under Stalin. At the XXII Congress of the CPSU in October 1961 Khrushchev announced the program for building a communist society by 1981r.
  14. orek
    orek 27 July 2013 14: 54 New
    +2
    Quote: pinecone
    The construction of socialism in the USSR was announced under Stalin.

    And I have no doubt that this would be done in full. This leader proved the implementation of plans for the industrialization and development of his homeland.
  15. knn54
    knn54 27 July 2013 16: 59 New
    +3
    “SPARK” AND “POVERTY” OF MARINE POWER. So it will be fair, there is nothing to blame EVERYTHING on shipbuilders.
    1. Master Taiga
      Master Taiga 27 July 2013 17: 41 New
      +1
      Shipbuilders gather it. It has already been repeatedly said that they specifically build and repair ships for YEARS to knock out more money from the state. And it is precisely with this that Shoigu seems to have taken to fight. Serdyukov safely closed his eyes to this practice, as a result, the ships stood unfinished for years, and money was allocated. The people, for years, have been fed tales, which I, frankly, believed.
  16. shpuntik
    shpuntik 27 July 2013 18: 54 New
    +3
    There are problems in shipbuilding, and big ones. But they are slowly building, preserving experience and traditions, this is important.
    I hope that the “cut” will not last forever, they will eat up someday, begin to accustom sons to production. In general, a new generation is needed, those who will please the country. I think the recession has passed, it will not be worse.
    With care, put the article plus what .
  17. tomich
    tomich 27 July 2013 21: 54 New
    +4
    article plus clearly, without snot and patriotism
  18. NOBODY EXCEPT US
    NOBODY EXCEPT US 27 July 2013 23: 31 New
    0
    The fact that our "airfield" with the worst TTD will be more expensive than theirs is clear, and so, gas workers when they pulled the pipe to China didn’t get a bad grab, KM pipes came out more expensive 5 (FIVE) times the Chinese .... the owners of our factories also want to eat a lot and sweet, so there is nothing surprising here, but the rush during construction can bring for the worse, it will be like hockey with Megasport .... they built in a hurry to the world champion and after six years it is necessary to demolish, crumble. Haste is needed when catching fleas and when fucking someone else’s wife’s tibidoch, well, with diarrhea too ....
  19. minimum
    minimum 28 July 2013 00: 57 New
    +2
    The situation is like under the tsar: Russia cannot build a fleet fully. The level of technology, human resources, and management has been catastrophically degraded. But under the Tsar there was a decision - American cruisers were bought, excellent by the way, but now we have no one to buy warships from. There are no developed allies (Iran, Venezuela and the DPRK are unlikely to be able to help in this), the developed powers are, at best, neutral enemies with whom we openly and not very rationally spoil relations. They will sell us a large Mistral vessel, but they will certainly not deliver a batch of destroyers. This is very much like a dead end or a serious problem.