Military Review

Saber jet engine

95
The UK government has made a statement that it is ready to invest 60 million pounds sterling (almost 3 billion rubles) in the project of the private company Reaction Engines. The engineers of this company expect to build a working model of a completely new commercial air-jet engine. This engine will be named Saber - an abbreviation of the phrase Synergetic Air-Breathing Rocket Engine (synergistic rocket engine). Currently, laboratory tests of prototypes of the new engine have already been successfully completed, which became an additional incentive for the state to invest in this project.


The Saber-based aircraft can fly to the stratospheric border in just 15 minutes, and travel, for example, from Australia to the USA in just 4 hours. The speed of such an aircraft would have exceeded the speed of sound immediately 5 times. Currently, Reaction Engines plans include equipping their famous Skylon aircraft, which could potentially accelerate to 5635 km / h. According to representatives of the British company, Skylon has every chance to become a real “spacecraft” and fly in low-Earth orbit.

Traditional engines that are used today in aviationrequire the transportation of special tanks filled with liquid oxygen, if the aircraft develops in flight a speed of more than 3000 km / h. Such aircraft cannot “breathe” ordinary air, as it would heat up to very high temperatures. At the same time, the Saber engine allows you to use air instead of liquid oxygen: it is equipped with a whole system of tubes that are filled with helium. When air passes through these tubes, helium cools it, and oxygen of the required temperature (-150 degrees Celsius instead of the initial 1000 degrees) is delivered directly to the engine.

Saber jet engine

Developed by Reaction Engines, the Saber engine is able to operate in 2-s modes: as a jet engine and as a rocket engine. According to the company, using this engine on a Skylon aircraft will allow it to exceed the speed of sound in the Earth’s atmosphere 5 times and 25 times in open space. A key element of this engine, which will allow it to work efficiently within the atmosphere, is a pre-cooler, in which incoming outside air with a temperature of the order of 1000 degrees is cooled to a temperature of -150 degrees in just one hundredth of a second.

As soon as Skylon gets into space, it can be transferred to the so-called "space mode". In this case, the aircraft will be able to be in low earth orbit for 36 hours. This time is more than enough, for example, to launch a satellite. At the same time it will be a very profitable technology. According to Alan Bond, who is the founder of the company, the amount required to launch satellites and other similar missions may decrease immediately by 95% if commercial production of Saber engines is established.

In addition, new spaceships built on jet engines can be a very good prospect in the space tourism market. In this case, the English company Reaction Engines can become a very strong competitor for Virgin Galactic, which is owned by Richard Branson. Now the billionaire offers everyone to see our planet in the porthole for just 121 thousand pounds (almost 6 million rubles). Representatives of the company Reaction Engines declare that the flight on their Skylon spacecraft will cost the space tourists much cheaper, though they don’t say how much exactly. More details about the plans of the UK government regarding the financing of this ambitious project will be known when a special Space Conference will be held in Glasgow.



History emergence

The idea of ​​designing a pre-cooled engine first appeared in Robert Carmichael back in the distant 1955 year. This idea was followed by the idea of ​​creating an engine with liquefaction of air (LACE), which was originally worked out by Marquardt and General Dynamics in the 60s of the last century, as part of the US Air Force's work on the Aerospaceplane project.

However, work on the Saber engine project was launched only in 1989 year, this year the company Reaction Engines Limited was formed. The company's specialists continued to work on the project, developing the ideas presented earlier. As a result, the creation of the Saber hybrid engine took 22 a year to come from a research team of 30 people. The fruit of their efforts was the construction of the engine layout, which was installed on the Skylon aircraft, which was demonstrated at the Farnborough Airshow.

The subject of the latest tests, which were conducted by the company Reaction Engines, was the technology of air pre-cooling. Currently, the specialists of this company, having in their hands a workable technology, are engaged in the development of a prototype of the cooling system. This sample should have a relatively low weight, and also demonstrate aerodynamic stability, high mechanical strength, and resistance to strong vibration. According to the company's plans, the tests of the prototype of the cooler were to begin as early as August of the 2012 year.

By November 2012, Reaction Engines completed equipment testing as part of the heat exchanger technology project critical to a hybrid rocket engine powered by air and liquid oxygen. It was a very important stage in the process of creating a hybrid engine, which proved to all potential investors of the project the viability of the technologies presented. The Saber engine is based on a heat exchanger that is able to cool the incoming air to a temperature of -150 ° C (-238 ° F). In the process, the cooled air is mixed with liquid hydrogen and then, burning, it provides the necessary traction for atmospheric flight, before switching to liquid oxygen from the tanks, when flying out of the earth's atmosphere. Successfully carried out tests of this, quite critical technology, confirmed in practice that the heat exchanger is able to meet the needs of the hybrid engine in obtaining the required amount of oxygen from the atmosphere to function with high efficiency in low-altitude flight conditions.


At the Farnborough Air Show in 2012, David Willets, Minister for University Affairs and Science of the United Kingdom, praised this development. In particular, the Minister said that this hybrid engine could have a real effect on the conditions of the game, which have been formed in the space industry today. Successful testing of the engine pre-cooling system was a confirmation of the high appreciation of the proposed concept, which the British Space Agency made in 2010. The minister also noted the fact that if one day they manage to apply this technology to organize their own commercial flights, then this will undoubtedly become a fantastic event.

David Willets also noted the fact that there is a small chance that the European Space Agency will agree to fund the Skylon project. For this reason, the UK should be prepared for the fact that it will have to deal with the construction of the spacecraft, mostly for its own money.

Performance

Estimated thrust-to-weight ratio of the Saber hybrid engine is assumed to be more than 14 units. It is worth noting that the thrust-to-weight ratio of ordinary jet engines is within 5 units, and only 2 units for supersonic direct-flow engines. Such a high level of productivity was achieved through the use of over-cooled air, which becomes very dense and requires less compression, and, even more significantly, due to low operating temperatures, it was possible to use sufficiently lightweight alloys for most of the hybrid engine design.


The engine has a high specific impulse in the atmosphere, which reaches 3500 seconds. For comparison, an ordinary rocket engine has a specific impulse, which at best is of the order of 450 seconds, and even the “thermal” nuclear rocket engine that is considered promising promises to reach the value only in 900 seconds.

The combination of low engine mass and high fuel efficiency gives the prospective Skylon aircraft the opportunity to reach orbit in a single-stage mode, while the engine operates as an air-jet engine for speed M = 5,14 and flight altitude 28,5 km. At the same time, the aerospace vehicle is able to reach orbit with a very large payload relative to the take-off weight of the aircraft itself. What previously could not be achieved by any non-nuclear aircraft.

Engine benefits

Unlike its traditional rocket brethren, and like other types of jet engines, the new English hybrid jet engine can use air to burn fuel, which reduces the required rocket fuel weight, while increasing the weight of the payload. The ramjet airjet engine (ramjet) and the hypersonic ramjet airjet engine (scramjet) must spend a sufficiently large amount of time in the lower layers of the atmosphere in order to develop a speed sufficient to enter orbit, which in turn brings to the fore the problem of intense heating. engine at hypersonic speed, as well as possible losses due to the complexity of thermal protection and significant weight.


At the same time, a hybrid Saber-like jet engine needs only to achieve a low hypersonic speed (it is worth recalling that hypersound is all that after M = 5) in the lower layers of the Earth’s atmosphere, before switching to a closed cycle of work and making a steep rise from set speed in rocket mode.

Unlike traditional ramjet or scramjet engines, the new English Saber engine is able to provide high thrust from zero speed to speed in M ​​= 5,14 inclusive, over the entire altitude range, with very good efficiency over the entire altitude range. In addition, the ability to create thrust even at zero speed indicates the possibility of testing a hybrid engine on the ground, which significantly reduces the cost of development.

Estimated Saber Engine Specs:

Thrust at sea level - 1960 kN
Traction in emptiness - 2940 kN
Thrust - order 14 (in the atmosphere)
Specific impulse in vacuum - 460 seconds.
Specific impulse at sea level - 3600 seconds.

Information sources:
-http: //www.vesti.ru/doc.html? id = 1107352
-http: //thexhs.livejournal.com/6034.html
-http: //www.dailytechinfo.org/space/3808-novye-dvigateli-sabre-budut-podnimat-na-orbitu-kosmicheskiy-samolet-skylon.html
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  1. NOMADE
    NOMADE 26 July 2013 09: 29 New
    +6
    Interesting article! Technical specifications for this type of engine (even if they come true at 50% ...) are fantastic! If there are no critical technical problems, then I think we are on the verge of a new era - aviation and space!
    I look forward to the test!
    1. Canep
      Canep 26 July 2013 18: 00 New
      0
      For a long time, engineers wanted to combine a rocket engine and an air jet. It seems the British will succeed. They were the first to create an aircraft gas turbine engine.
      1. dustycat
        dustycat 29 July 2013 20: 24 New
        +1
        Quote: Canep
        For a long time, engineers wanted to combine a rocket engine and an air jet. It seems the British will succeed.


        Dilute the budget for money.

        1. How much helium do you need to carry with you so that you can cool the right amount of compressed air until liquefaction for the entire flight? Do they remember the cost and methods of transportation?
        2. Also of great doubt is their knowledge that the composition of the air is at least 76% nitrogen. You can, of course, make it oxidize - then you don’t need to use fuel at all - but what to do with acid rain from nitrous acid? And in the presence of ionized molecular oxygen (at altitudes of 50 km and above), nitric acid will also be pretty.
        3. At an altitude of more than 80km and at a speed of 5000, the fuselage itself is rather warm and heats up very poorly by heat exchange, and where else will it be removed from the compressed air?
        4. Why so pervert and reduce the already not so great direct-flow efficiency? You can simply make a larger inlet bell to get the necessary partial oxygen pressure for stable burning of kerosene by obtaining a horn forward-flow pipe.
  2. AVV
    AVV 26 July 2013 10: 12 New
    -2
    Yes, and our designers, it is necessary to develop something similar, but with the best features! That would not be behind in technological terms !!!
    1. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 26 July 2013 18: 09 New
      +2
      Our developers already .... Already pissing with boiling water. I guarantee - they lie on tables and under tables and hiccup quietly. What is a serious problem and challenge - what kind of engine with a torn diaphragm and a permanent laughable hysteria?
      Let's go from Adam and Eve. Do the British know how much helium is in the world? How is it obtained? Are they transported? Who? The answers to these questions allow us to look at the "problem" in a very different way. Move on. How much does helium cost? And what about tomographs all over the world (for which it is barely close enough) what? With a sledgehammer and a landfill? A LOSS? Do all these greyhounds know what the losses are when working with helium?
      In general, do not worry about the development of another mithril engine. In Russia, a spin-twisted submersible, driven by a petrolpet, was already invented. One is enough ...
      1. Refund_SSSR
        Refund_SSSR 28 July 2013 07: 50 New
        +3
        Swell or what?
  3. Ivan79
    Ivan79 26 July 2013 11: 37 New
    -2
    Really serious thing. We in this area do not need to be left behind. Yes, we do not lag behind!
  4. max702
    max702 26 July 2013 11: 49 New
    +7
    Even I doubt that the military monitors such technologies without fail and if the characteristics are at least 50% correct then everything was pretty classified and there weren’t any problems with finances and other resources, because this engine installed in missiles and in the future aviation will give undeniable advantages in military affairs.
  5. USNik
    USNik 26 July 2013 11: 51 New
    +1
    which in turn brings to the fore the problem of intensive heating of the engine at hypersonic speed, as well as possible losses due to the complexity of thermal protection and significant weight.
    In theory and in pictures it's just WOW! But, I think the appearance of the reusable spacecraft will be very different from the one shown in the picture and will look like "irons" like Buran and Space Shuttle, but they will not really "accelerate to hypersound from zero speeds", aerodynamics and heat protection are still they are not very friendly.
    1. dustycat
      dustycat 29 July 2013 20: 29 New
      0
      Quote: USNik
      In theory and in pictures it's just WOW! But, I think the appearance of the reusable spacecraft will be very different from the one shown in the picture and will look like "irons" like Buran and Space Shuttle, but they will not really "accelerate to hypersound from zero speeds", aerodynamics and heat protection are still they are not very friendly.

      Well, on "Lapotka" with forward flow like experiments were done, and forward flow successfully worked.
      Another thing is that he flew to hypersound purely in unmanned ballistic mode and without forward flow. But if the program had not been curtailed - who knows what they would fly to the ISS now. More precisely on MIR-10 and the moon.
  6. shinobi
    shinobi 26 July 2013 11: 57 New
    +1
    A promising device, but if brought to serial production. All small-tonnage astronautics will be behind systems using this unit. good
  7. Ivan_Ivanov
    Ivan_Ivanov 26 July 2013 12: 21 New
    +5
    incoming air with a temperature of the order of 1000 degrees is cooled to a temperature of -150 degrees in just one hundredth of a second


    smile Yeah ... Well, then, we believe, we believe ... yes laughing
    1. Konsmo
      Konsmo 26 July 2013 14: 39 New
      +1
      Yes, they bent it.
  8. PValery53
    PValery53 26 July 2013 12: 29 New
    +3
    Something is still smoothly perceived on paper ... I wonder what the field tests will show. No matter how accompanying problems drag this development into "unacceptable" ...
  9. Storyteller
    Storyteller 26 July 2013 13: 06 New
    +5
    I wonder where they put heat when cooling the air ???
    1. anomalocaris
      anomalocaris 27 July 2013 03: 39 New
      +1
      A very interesting question ... The only sane answer: dumping superheated helium. But then this dvigun will not even be gold, but platinum. In this regard, another question arises: how much will helium weigh on an aggregate with such an engine?
      1. dustycat
        dustycat 29 July 2013 20: 34 New
        0
        Quote: anomalocaris
        A very interesting question ... The only sane answer: dumping superheated helium. But then this dvigun will not even be gold, but platinum. In this regard, another question arises: how much will helium weigh on an aggregate with such an engine?

        1/20 of the weight of the steel cylinder is approximately.
        Or 1/4 of the weight of the composite.
        At a minimum.
        This is if you do not heat much. Above about -198С.
        And if higher, then up to 1/100 can reach for composite.
        1. anomalocaris
          anomalocaris 31 July 2013 16: 00 New
          0
          I know that. So the question is how much helium should I carry with me?
          1. ProkletyiPirat
            ProkletyiPirat 1 July 2017 22: 32 New
            0
            as far as I understand, helium transfers heat to hydrogen, and it is already burned in an external ramjet engine.
  10. srha
    srha 26 July 2013 15: 22 New
    +4
    Something new British physics contradicts the good old classical:
    The combustion of 1 kg of gasoline requires approximately 15 kg of air, which must be cooled (according to the authors) to 1150 °, the specific heat of which is 1 kJ / (kg · K), i.e. 1 x 15 x 1150 = 17 kJ / kg is required, which is about a third of the specific calorific value of gasoline - 000 kJ / kg, so they reduce the heat content in the fuel combustion products by a third, i.e. engine efficiency. In addition, it is necessary to take energy somewhere for cooling, and the source is one - fuel combustion, i.e. one more minus. Well, the last problem - but where is the excess heat from the body being cooled removed? The diagram is not visible ...
    1. Volkhov
      Volkhov 26 July 2013 20: 34 New
      +4
      The section of the model is stupid, it doesn’t happen, the barrel with the red rim doesn’t look like it, like the engine with a thrust of 300 tons, but a couple of tubes fit it, similar to a high pressure gas pipeline - hydrogen or cooling nitrogen.
      Most likely, some experiments on holding plasma in a magnetic field are an interesting, but far from text.
      1. dustycat
        dustycat 29 July 2013 20: 56 New
        0
        Quote: Volkhov
        The section of the model is stupid, it doesn’t happen, the barrel with the red rim doesn’t look like it, as it does with the 300 t engine,

        Well, for a hypersonic direct exhaust pipe, this is exactly the design of the exhaust nozzle.

        Quote: Volkhov
        but a pair of tubes fit it, similar to a high-pressure gas pipeline - hydrogen or cooling nitrogen.

        Well, judging by the approximate thickness of the flanges and the number of bolts on them - I would say super-high. That way for 200-500 atmospheres.

        Rather, the old Soviet idea of ​​a cryogenic engine.
    2. abrakadabre
      abrakadabre 29 July 2013 09: 36 New
      0
      It seems to me that there are some gaps in understanding the question of the author of the article and, accordingly, in the presentation of the material. And not in the work itself. This is most likely. Less likely is the fallacy of the concept implementation itself. But to understand this from the submitted material is not possible.

      I am not very special in the processes in the combustion chamber of jet engines. But it’s not entirely clear to me why bother trying to cool compressed air at the cost of unthinkable tricks? Then in it to set fire to fuel. It is enough just to inject fuel into the hot oxidizer (air) and voila, the process has begun. It is much easier technically.
      I also understand the need to cool the casing of the device. But the air ...
      1. ProkletyiPirat
        ProkletyiPirat 1 July 2017 22: 38 New
        0
        the fact of the matter is that air is COMPRESSED during cooling, therefore, after mixing with fuel, the resulting mixture is stronger, expands more, hence higher draft ...
  11. virm
    virm 26 July 2013 15: 42 New
    +1
    The Saber engine is based on a heat exchanger that is able to cool the incoming air to a temperature of -150 ° C (-238 ° F).

    With 1000 degrees. To -150. In 0,01 seconds. Where does the energy come from for such a heat exchanger? If from a nearby substation, then it’s understandable.
  12. Kir
    Kir 26 July 2013 15: 47 New
    +1
    This "unit" is already being written in the Russian segment, well, probably for half a year already, like all the continuous re-singing of the article minus !!!
  13. JIaIIoTb
    JIaIIoTb 26 July 2013 18: 16 New
    +1
    Hehehehe is just a fantasy)))
  14. studentmati
    studentmati 26 July 2013 22: 43 New
    0
    In theory, everything is perfect. good In a constructive plan, everything is still ahead: both materials and production technologies. drinks Everything has its own time, maybe not during our lifetimes. sad
  15. NOBODY EXCEPT US
    NOBODY EXCEPT US 26 July 2013 23: 40 New
    0
    Of course, it’s interesting, but if you think about it, many of the ideas to contemporaries did not seem feasible, who of you dear could have imagined in the 70s what the development of, say, television or telephony would go, wait and see or as they say.
    1. dustycat
      dustycat 29 July 2013 20: 38 New
      0
      Quote: NOBODY EXCEPT US
      Of course, it’s interesting, but if you think about it, many of the ideas to contemporaries did not seem feasible, who of you dear could have imagined in the 70s what the development of, say, television or telephony would go, wait and see or as they say.

      Strugatsky brothers weakly find on the internet and read?
  16. Asan Ata
    Asan Ata 27 July 2013 01: 26 New
    +1
    Helium was heated in 0,01 seconds - and the heat exchanger blew up. Fantasies. 60 million dollars for the development of the principle - and 1 billion for materials science. The same MHD generator, or TNF - seems to be simple, but no, to hell there. it is clear that the patsian idea may be impudent, but just an idea.
  17. PValery53
    PValery53 27 July 2013 08: 35 New
    +1
    Most likely, this development is inconsistent with the fundamental law of Michal Vasilich (Lomonosov): "If in one place something decreases, the same amount will arrive in another place" - the law of CONSERVATION. Just by the warmth ...
    1. dustycat
      dustycat 29 July 2013 20: 39 New
      0
      Quote: PValery53
      Most likely, this development is inconsistent with the fundamental law of Michal Vasilich (Lomonosov): "If in one place something decreases, the same amount will arrive in another place" - the law of CONSERVATION. Just by the warmth ...

      They are even trying to refute Sir Maxwell.
  18. gridasov
    gridasov 27 July 2013 14: 03 New
    +1
    Nothing new. Again, the basics of physical interactions are broken. And do not tie either Lomonosov or any other scientist. The fact is that mankind has entered the era of highly potential physical processes. Rather, there are ambitions, but there is no understanding of the essence of these processes. With a high density of physical events per unit time, it is worth considering not only the processes occurring inside the flight object, but also the appearance of a new influencing factor, this is the appearance of the difference in email. magnetic potential on the outer shell of the object with the flight environment. At a high flight speed, a potential difference arises at the object in the longitudinal vector, which ultimately leads to the appearance of a kinetic impulse of magnetic force in a known region of the rocket or aircraft. And this force tears the object because the rotation vectors are oppositely directed. The same phenomena occur when a tornado occurs. Therefore, the destruction is so great. Fundamental is not a discovery, but the condition should be taken into account when calculating a high-speed flight. But alas! This is not being done by anyone yet.
  19. gridasov
    gridasov 27 July 2013 14: 14 New
    0
    The design of any aircraft follows from the calculation. With an increase in the potential difference at the ends of the conductor, a kinetic momentum of the magnetic flux of each potential occurs. Therefore, with a sufficient pulse, the conductor breaks in a known place. The same thing happens with a rocket flying in a certain density of matter. The degree of surface ionization causes the appearance of a potential difference at the ends of the aircraft. That's why these objects are destroyed at hyper speeds. Any algebraic solution will be only a special case of mathematical analysis. The process is dynamic and the methodology of such a mat. analysis should be completely different. That is the answer.
  20. Svetlana
    Svetlana 27 July 2013 21: 53 New
    -1
    Quote: srha
    Well, the last problem - but where is the excess heat from the body being cooled removed? The diagram is not visible ...

    Excess heat from compressed hot air is removed by helium compressed up to 200 bar, circulating inside several thousand spiral microtubes with a diameter of about 1 mm and a wall thickness of about 0.1 mm. And helium, in turn, is cooled with liquid hydrogen from the cryogenic fuel tanks of the Skylon aircraft project. But it seems that Saber will not be able to work for a long time - the space between the mentioned microtubes will be clogged with frost from ice H2O and CO2
    1. anomalocaris
      anomalocaris 28 July 2013 08: 44 New
      0
      How interesting ... But why such difficulties, can it be easier to let hydrogen out of cryogenic tanks? Here at point blank range I do not observe the need for an intermediate link in the form of helium. In addition, terrible doubts about the survivability of the tubes of the heat exchanger. Due to the microscopic dimensions, any malfunction in the supply of refrigerant will inevitably lead to almost instant burning of the wall of this tube, and then, depending on the design of the heat exchanger, up to explosive destruction.
    2. Asan Ata
      Asan Ata 28 July 2013 23: 38 New
      0
      Microtube with a diameter of 1 mm. with a wall thickness of 0.1mm. under a pressure of 200 atm. ???? What kind of tube material is this, let me ask? negative
      1. dustycat
        dustycat 29 July 2013 20: 43 New
        0
        Quote: Asan Ata
        Microtube with a diameter of 1 mm. with a wall thickness of 0.1mm. under a pressure of 200 atm. ???? What kind of tube material is this, let me ask? negative

        Neutronium or neutrinium ..
        It was sometimes necessary to read Soviet science fiction. laughing
    3. dustycat
      dustycat 29 July 2013 20: 42 New
      +1
      Quote: Svetlana

      Excess heat from compressed hot air is removed by helium compressed up to 200 bar, circulating inside several thousand spiral microtubes with a diameter of about 1 mm and a wall thickness of about 0.1 mm. And helium, in turn, is cooled with liquid hydrogen from the cryogenic fuel tanks of the Skylon aircraft project.

      Could it be easier in a small-sized artificial black hole? laughing
      Read Soviet and foreign science fiction 1960s-1970s.
      1. alex86
        alex86 5 August 2013 20: 09 New
        0
        And remember, “they” have a cannon out of it, and “we” shoot down their projectile, and there is a lake of molten earth in the tundra, and a courageous hero in a suit made of super-flexible neutrinium enters the molten lake knee-deep, but the optics begin to cloud ... and etc. It was terribly interesting, they made it (neutrinium) from mercury ... Where are my 16 years ...
  21. Svetlana
    Svetlana 28 July 2013 11: 10 New
    +1
    Quote: anomalocaris
    can it be easier to let hydrogen out of cryogenic tanks?

    Due to the small size of the H atom, hydrogen is able to diffuse through the crystal lattice of microtubes, embrittle them, and the interaction of hydrogen with hot air in the space between the microtubes will lead to an explosion. Therefore, an intermediate heat transfer medium He is used.
    1. anomalocaris
      anomalocaris 28 July 2013 13: 20 New
      0
      Are you serious? So, if this engine runs on hydrogen, then all the quirks with "helium" air cooling simply do not make sense, the cryogenic fuel engine was created 30 years ago .. But most importantly, you did not even try to answer the question : how are they going to ensure the stability of the heat exchanger?
  22. gridasov
    gridasov 28 July 2013 11: 49 New
    0
    Heat, as well as cold, is a secondary property of magnetic force processes. Cooling, removing heat and other solutions are methods equivalent to powdering deep wrinkles. The process should be such with its own algorithm so that the thermodynamic cycles are compensated. In addition, not only inside the engine, but also with the external environment.
  23. gridasov
    gridasov 28 July 2013 12: 09 New
    0
    Heat, as well as cold, is a secondary property of magnetic force processes. Cooling, removing heat and other solutions are methods equivalent to powdering deep wrinkles. The process should be such with its own algorithm so that the thermodynamic cycles are compensated. In addition, not only inside the engine, but also with the external environment.
  24. Asan Ata
    Asan Ata 28 July 2013 23: 48 New
    +1
    Article - Fantasy. Brad. Disinformation. negative
    1. studentmati
      studentmati 29 July 2013 01: 43 New
      0
      Adversary probes the electorate of the site ...
  25. Svetlana
    Svetlana 29 July 2013 20: 54 New
    +1
    Quote: dustycat
    Microtube with a diameter of 1 mm. with a wall thickness of 0.1mm. under a pressure of 200 atm. ???? What kind of tube material

    microtube material - Inconel 718 alloy, see
    IAC-08-C4.5.2
    HEAT EXCHANGER DEVELOPMENT AT REACTION ENGINES LTD
    Richard Varvill. Reaction Engines Ltd, United Kingdom; [email protected]
    there in the photo it looks like chrome-nickel stainless steel, maybe something else is added, such as vanadium, molybdenum, niobium or tantalum
  26. Svetlana
    Svetlana 29 July 2013 21: 10 New
    +1
    Quote: anomalocaris
    How are you going to ensure the stability of the heat exchanger?

    stability of the heat exchanger is probably provided by standard methods of regulating the inlet diffuser: changing the throat of the throat and the relative position of the central conical body and the shell, air discharge through the holes in the diffuser wall, draining or suctioning the boundary layer on the central body and / or on the shell.
    For stability of the air-helium heat exchanger, Saber is equipped with an adjustable retractable diffuser of variable cross-section. This diffuser contains an axial conical body and a shell, which by a series of direct and oblique shock waves (shock waves) transform a supersonic incoming flow into a subsonic one. The diffuser is made by analogy with folding cups - from several conical rings of decreasing diameter, which are alternately pushed out of the diffuser (or pulled into the diffuser) and provide the necessary non-surge operation of the input diffuser up to a speed of 5.5M. At higher speeds, the diffuser is completely covered by an input retractable cone, apparently protected by a heat-protective ablating coating.
  27. Svetlana
    Svetlana 29 July 2013 21: 19 New
    +1
    Quote: abrakadabre
    why bother trying to cool compressed air at the cost of unthinkable tricks? Then in it to set fire to fuel. It is enough just to inject fuel into the hot oxidizer (air) and voila, the process has begun.

    If you bring your finger to the boundary of the subsonic stream, you will feel that it is being drawn into the stream.
    If you bring your finger to the boundary of the supersonic stream - you will feel that it is pushed out of the stream.
    This works the Bernoulli effect. Therefore, it is difficult to cram something, for example, another jet (from finely dispersed or gaseous fuel) into a supersonic air stream, it does not climb into it, does not mix, and therefore burns poorly.
    For supersonic operation, Saber has an inlet conical body for the stability of the air-helium heat exchanger, which, by a series of direct and oblique shock waves (shock waves), converts a supersonic incoming flow into a subsonic one. But unfortunately, the temperature of hot air in the resulting subsonic flow is very high, respectively, the density (kg / m3) of hot air in the subsonic flow is so small that the air flow into the diffuser is not enough to burn fuel (hydrogen). So they use intermediate cooling of air from the oncoming flow to compress it to the desired density, sufficient to burn a given number of kilograms of hydrogen per second. Similarly, in turbocompressor units, low pressure air compressors and high pressure air compressors are used, and an air cooler-heat exchanger is placed between them, which allows to increase the overall degree of air compression before it is fed into the combustion chamber.
    1. abrakadabre
      abrakadabre 30 July 2013 11: 34 New
      0
      Thanks for the detailed description.
      Could you enlighten why in a ram engine they can do without it? I have heard about the problems of sustainable combustion in a supersonic flow - one of the main problems of direct-flow ducts. Although, I repent, not in great detail. Well, that is, not at the level of specific systems of equations. I just heard our kind of found ways to overcome this problem.
      As far as I know, the problems of the lack of oxidizer are also solved including the size of the inlet diffuser.

      In general, I want to note that the article is written in technical details not in the best way. Not everything is clear and understandable. The topic is very interesting and long overdue.
      Actually, we are talking about a hybrid of a ramjet engine and a rocket engine, long known at the idea level, with atmospheric operation (with outside air) and transatmospheric (oxidizer from the side tank).
      Apparently you are just in the subject. It would be great to listen to your detailed comments.
    2. gridasov
      gridasov 4 August 2013 23: 11 New
      0
      People are stupid and it's obvious. All processes can be considered as the interaction of magnetic force fluxes. This makes it possible to substantiate why, at a super-sonic speed of an object moving relative to others, it changes the polarization vector and becomes a source of energy, and therefore is pushed out of the jet. Let me give you an example. A bullet flying at a subsonic speed pierces any object with the so-called Faraday cage (apple, watermelon, human body) just makes a hole in it. A bullet flying at supersonic speed creates a radial impulse at the point of contact with the body, so it explodes. It breaks because the level of polarization of this body with the external environment is balanced, and the destroyed "cell F" with an increased potential again changes the polarization vector.
      It is not possible to cool the flow with an external source. This must be done by changing the density of the magnetic force flows causing the flow itself.
      1. abrakadabre
        abrakadabre 6 August 2013 13: 22 New
        0
        Freaky explanation!
        You need to work as an encryptor.
  28. Svetlana
    Svetlana 30 July 2013 21: 00 New
    +1
    In a ramjet engine (ramjet), they completely dispense with cooling the air entering its input, since someone had previously accelerated it to a speed of 5..10M, it itself could not accelerate to such a speed, unlike SABER. The problem of stable combustion in a supersonic flow in some ramjet schemes is solved by injecting fuel at a speed higher than the speed of the passing air flow at the base of the combustion chamber (see Wikipedia about scramjet engine), so the speed of the air flow relative to the injected fuel jets is obtained subsonic. By the way, did you try to reinforce the microtubes from Inconel 718 alloy with graphene microtubes embedded in each other? Then they can withstand the pressure of He and 1000bar ..
    1. abrakadabre
      abrakadabre 31 July 2013 10: 05 New
      0
      Dear SvetlanaThanks again for the interesting details.
      As far as I know, in the American Blackbird SR-71 there was a combination of turbojet engine and ramjet. It seems that there take-off and acceleration was carried out due to the first circuit with turbines, and then the main high-speed flight was carried out on the second direct-flow circuit. Perhaps this concept can defeat the problem. If you add silencing of the inlet path of the once-through circuit with the subsequent injection of oxidizer from the tanks. That is, switching to rocket mode.
      It is even possible to try to switch to rocket mode not abruptly, but smoothly replacing the flow of oxidizer from the atmosphere with an increase in the injection of oxidizer from the tanks. From direct-flow operation to fully rocket.
  29. Svetlana
    Svetlana 31 July 2013 12: 47 New
    +1
    In Britain, on the basis of SABER, they are also developing the SCIMITAR engine for continuous operation at an altitude of 25 km and a speed of 5M.
    The main difference between the SCIMITAR engine and the SABER engine in the estimated life is 15000 hours versus 50 hours for Saber.
    In addition, SCIMITAR is lighter than SABER.
    In the closed loop of helium circulation in the Scimitar engine pre-cooler, special non-stationary two-rotor turbines with counter-rotating rotors with blades mounted on them are used, which at the same speed increases the pressure drop across the turbine stage and reduces its mass. The Scimitar air compressor consists of two counter-rotating wheels driven by helium turbine rotors.
    at an altitude of 25km and 5 Max, SCIMITAR has the following parameters:
    3bar and 1320K distance and air temperature in the inlet diffuser
    200bar and 999K at the entrance to the helium turbine
    132bar and 861K at the exit of the helium turbine
    compression ratio of air compressor 4.07
    2.4bar and 635K pressure and temperature at the inlet to the air compressor (the pre-cooler works, reducing the T of air from 1320K to 635K)
    9.7bar and 835K pressure and temperature at the exit of the air compressor
    A device with such an engine will reach anywhere in the world in 4 hours.
    But at a cruising speed of 5M, many nitrogen oxides are formed in the Scimitar exhaust due to the high combustion temperature.
    1. anomalocaris
      anomalocaris 31 July 2013 16: 04 New
      0
      Svetlana, you still have not answered the fundamental question: where will the thermal energy of the compressed air go?
  30. Svetlana
    Svetlana 31 July 2013 15: 50 New
    +2
    With a Mach number of about 3 in the SR-71, in order to contain T gases in front of the turbine (so as not to melt its blades), it is necessary to reduce the fuel supply to the combustion chamber of the turbojet engine circuit. The turbojet engine circuit of the SR-71 provides only 20% of thrust in these modes, and 80% of the thrust is provided by an external direct-flow circuit (see Wikipedia about SR-71).
    If air was cooled in front of the turbojet compressor in SR-71, then at Mach 3 speeds the SR-71 would not have to reduce the fuel supply to the combustion chamber of the turbojet engine circuit, which would increase traction and speed.
    Scimitar, similarly to the SR-71 engine, is also equipped with a bypass channel, which works like a ramjet, but unlike the SR-71, with an increase in speed from 2.5 to 5M, this bypass is gradually closed, so that at 5M the entire input stream goes through the preclear and air compressor.
    1. gridasov
      gridasov 4 August 2013 23: 17 New
      0
      There is a method and a method that not only allows you to not limit the speed and volume of air flows, but also increase it by orders of magnitude. Ejection can be carried out not only at the outlet of the stream, but also at the entrance to the turbine.
  31. Svetlana
    Svetlana 31 July 2013 20: 53 New
    0
    according to the first law of thermodynamics, the change in the internal (thermal) energy of the compressible gas (air) dU is equal to the amount of heat dQ reported to the unit mass of gas dQ, minus the work of expansion P * dV of this portion of gas: dU = dQ-P * dV
    here P-pressure, T-gas temperature.
    1. anomalocaris
      anomalocaris 1 August 2013 03: 13 New
      0
      This is understandable, but it doesn't matter where the excess heat will be removed from the "apparatus" system? What you describe is just a transfer of heat inside the system, nothing more.
      1. abrakadabre
        abrakadabre 1 August 2013 10: 46 New
        0
        In defense of Svetlana, we can only say that your last question should be addressed to the British engine developers.
        on the other hand, if Svetlana has something to say on this without affecting the signature information, then it’s very interesting for us to listen.
        smile
  32. Svetlana
    Svetlana 1 August 2013 12: 19 New
    +1
    Quote: anomalocaris
    will excess heat be removed from the "apparatus" system?

    The "apparatus" has an inlet (diffuser) and an outlet (nozzle). Excess heat can be removed through the nozzle, by radiation from the surface of the device (with a sufficient surface area of ​​the emitter), or accumulate in it, leading to an increase in the temperature of the device and an increase in heat transfer by radiation.
    1. anomalocaris
      anomalocaris 4 August 2013 05: 04 New
      0
      That is, the temperature of the walls of the nozzle should be higher than the temperature of the outgoing gases?
  33. Andrey_K
    Andrey_K 1 August 2013 15: 22 New
    +1
    You can try laser cooling.
    It is necessary to choose such a laser with a frequency equal to the natural frequency of absorption of nitrogen or oxygen.
    Then a powerful laser is able to quickly cool the air to the lowest temperatures, and in only one direction.
  34. KononAV
    KononAV 2 August 2013 12: 25 New
    +1
    I am glad that at least something new has appeared on the subject of rocket engines.
  35. Svetlana
    Svetlana 3 August 2013 20: 38 New
    +1
    in inhibited air behind the confuser at 3bar and 1320K, only vibrational-rotational degrees of freedom of molecules can actually be excited. Molecules N2 and O2 are not ionized at such low temperatures. In addition, they are not polar, unlike, for example, molecules of CO2, CO, NO. And the polarity of the molecules is needed for effective interaction with electromagnetic vibration modes in a laser cavity, even in a single-pass. so IMHO with a laser on nitrogen or oxygen without an external ionization source, nothing happens.
  36. Svetlana
    Svetlana 3 August 2013 20: 52 New
    +2
    Nevertheless, it is easier to use not laser cooling (it makes sense somewhere in accelerators), but cooling with liquid hydrogen, since the mass heat capacity of hydrogen (j / (kg * K)) is 5 times higher than the mass heat capacity of water.
    1. alex86
      alex86 4 August 2013 21: 16 New
      +1
      It is not entirely clear from the article, but the option of cooling with liquid hydrogen is possible, followed by use as fuel, but the balance between the heat capacity of hydrogen and the incoming air (i.e. nitrogen is cooled in vain) does not break without taking into account the declared temperatures, and there are no other cooling options discussed above (real, in any case) firstly, the diagram is not visible, and secondly, they will take their place and require energy, which will reduce efficiency. Conclusion: the text simply says
      "At the same time, a hybrid jet engine like the Saber only needs to achieve a low hypersonic speed (it should be remembered that hypersonic is everything after M = 5) in the lower layers of the Earth's atmosphere, before switching to a closed cycle and making a steep climb accelerating in rocket mode. " ,
      those. everything looks, perhaps, a little easier - there is a hybrid (dual-mode) engine for putting it into a low orbit, and everything else looks like noodles for the ears of a taxpayer and a financier signing a payment order.
    2. anomalocaris
      anomalocaris 5 August 2013 16: 10 New
      0
      And then why the helium layer?
      1. alex86
        alex86 5 August 2013 20: 18 New
        0
        The only thing that can be assumed - I agree with Svetlana - an increase in the fragility of the walls of the heat exchanger and the diffusion of hydrogen through the walls - helium is also much more likely to do this, but still much less; in support of the ideas presented in the article, I’ll say that not always (and with the development of technology less and less) the complexity of the design is a minus - it’s more difficult to do, but the efficiency is higher. And judging by a similar article, given the obvious difficulties with the translation, is not entirely correct ...
  37. gridasov
    gridasov 5 August 2013 13: 04 New
    0
    Well, how are the children! The task is to create an engine or a mover that solves target tasks, and inventors solve problems by creating new problems. It is necessary to understand the algorithm of all successive stages of the entire combined process of the outflow of gases or liquids, and only then, by the way, it is very simple, the design problem itself is solved. You can not rely on designs in which erroneous algorithms were originally laid. I don’t even want to enter into rhetoric. All boast knowledge of the subtleties, but there is no engine and will not be, with this method of analysis.
    1. anomalocaris
      anomalocaris 5 August 2013 16: 16 New
      0
      This stupid drank dough. Just this engine, in the declared characteristics, contradicts both principles of thermodynamics. Svetlana is trying to prove with very clever phrases that this is not so. For those who passed the exam, it can and will work, but I'm an old, fat, gray-haired SOVIET engineer.
      1. alex86
        alex86 5 August 2013 20: 39 New
        0
        Quote: anomalocaris
        This stupid drank dough

        This is most likely, then they will spread their hands and say: sorry, it didn't work out. But on the other hand, to brush it off and say - it cannot be, because it can never be - is not entirely correct; however, once again - a discussion based on rather unreliable material - pouring from empty to empty. (For lovers of conspiracy theories, this is "they" thus want us to solve their problems here, and "they" use it. am How do you like? ...)
  38. Svetlana
    Svetlana 5 August 2013 22: 17 New
    +2
    According to the FALCON program, a hypersonic aircraft (HVA) is created. This HVA is made according to the "wave flight" scheme, its calculated cruising flight speed corresponds to the numbers M> 10 at an altitude of 40 km, the combat range is 16600 km, the mass of the payload is up to 5400 kg. reaction time (from takeoff to hitting the target) - less than 2 hours. The GLA is supposed to be based on airfields. The GLA flight with a power plant in the form of a hypersonic turbo-direct-flow engine powered by hydrogen fuel will be carried out along a "periodic" trajectory, more than 60% of which passes outside the atmosphere. (See http://army-news.ru/2010 / 12 / raschyot-na-strategicheskuyu-vnezapnost-chast-2 /). While the PAK-DA is trudging to the target at 0.8M, a Skylon with a Saber engine or a GLA with a Scimitar engine at Mach 5 flies to it and back several times, having received target designation from the satellite. Despite the rise in the cost of the infrastructure of airfields associated with refueling with liquid hydrogen, the combat effectiveness of supersonic vehicles with liquid hydrogen fuel can be an order of magnitude higher than subsonic ones, since they will do their job faster without requiring air refueling.
    1. Alex 241
      Alex 241 5 August 2013 22: 37 New
      0
      in English, but the essence of the idea is clear.
    2. abrakadabre
      abrakadabre 6 August 2013 12: 58 New
      0
      the combat effectiveness of supersonic vehicles with liquid hydrogen fuel can be an order of magnitude higher than subsonic ...
      Will not be an order of magnitude. To do this, it is necessary to have a higher cost-effectiveness ratio.
      How much will an hour of flight time cost for this Falcon? And how many subsonic bomb carriers do you have? And what load can the first and second be able to deliver at maximum range? And how much will the service of this prodigy cost? That is, what is its overall effectiveness with such a scanty load of conventional ammunition?
      Despite the fact that being a potential carrier of nuclear weapons, such an airplane at each take-off will put the strategic nuclear forces of all likely opponents into the mode of minute readiness for a massive launch of ICBMs. After all, who knows what he has in the bomb bay? And then there will be no time for an answer.
      I believe that such a thing will be quite acceptable only for space programs. Military use implies a much greater regularity of flights. So it will be just a financial black hole. Even taking into account the repeated use of missiles instead of single-use.
    3. anomalocaris
      anomalocaris 6 August 2013 16: 20 New
      +1
      What nonsense. There was such a friend by the name of Zenger. Google, maybe stop nonsense to carry other nonsense.
      1. studentmati
        studentmati 6 August 2013 23: 20 New
        +1
        Quote: anomalocaris
        What nonsense.

        I agree - nonsense! But this "nonsense" moves us forward!

        Go back 100 years to Tsiolkovsky's "delirium"?

        Any genius is fundamentally abnormal! And this is the engine of progress!
        1. anomalocaris
          anomalocaris 7 August 2013 03: 04 New
          0
          Yeah. That's just the ideas of Tsiolkovsky did not violate the fundamental laws of the universe.
  39. Andrey_K
    Andrey_K 7 August 2013 21: 08 New
    0
    After reading, I had an idea - how to improve this engine.
    What if you install a highly efficient electric generator at the inlet of the incoming air flow.
    First, the blades with a small angle of rotation, then with a slightly larger angle - so that the air speed is completely extinguished and converted into electricity.
    Thus, it is partially possible to avoid the conversion of kinetic energy of the incoming air flow into heat.
    Here, cooling will also be required in this place (but less than that of Sabre) - this is because the speed of the incoming air flow will be much higher than that which converted its kinetic energy into electrical energy and left the site of electric generation, then at the same temperature the pressure inside will increase.
    If this air is cooled in proportion to the decrease in speed, then inside the engine the air pressure will be equal to the external one, and the density will be higher - with all the ensuing advantages.
    However, air can be cooled with circulating droplets of coolant (like Sabre), while the refrigerant will be cooled with the help of electricity received by an electric generator - it should be sufficiently generated there and even superfluous to remain.
    1. Homohuman
      Homohuman 10 August 2013 13: 52 New
      0
      Yes, right. Let's make it so that "the air speed is completely extinguished", thereby significantly increasing the air resistance of the air device. And then we will cool the air with energy from an electric generator, part of which will go to efficiency. It is interesting: what installation in terms of weight and dimensions should be in this case for cooling to such a low temperature, and what speed can an aircraft develop with such unjustified air resistance?
      1. Andrey_K
        Andrey_K 10 August 2013 14: 42 New
        0
        The air speed there is extinguished for any.
        This is not a ramjet engine.
        By rotating the compressor turbines or encountering bends inside the engine, all the kinetic energy of the air is anyway converted into heat.
        The only thing is that it is partially used for rotation of compressor turbines - in front is a fan from which all rotating fans inside the engine are mechanically powered.
        Those. the kinetic energy of the air disappears almost uselessly - heating the air.
        And the fact that the internal fans are tightly connected with the very first one - does not allow you to adjust their rotation speed and as a result the engine is designed for optimal flight strictly at one single speed.
        If all mechanics are replaced by electricity, then it is possible to better utilize the kinetic energy of the air, adjust the speed of the compressors as needed - always maintaining the optimal mode, and prevent excessive heating of the air from braking.
        And if you also cool (after all, there will be a lot of electricity), we will also get the benefits of pre-cooling (in the form of a high bypass ratio).
        1. anomalocaris
          anomalocaris 10 August 2013 15: 07 New
          0
          I’ll tell you a little secret - in a ram engine, the speed of the incoming air flow decreases! Anyway. Google - Bernoulli's Law. So, according to this law, ANY jet engine works.
          Why trifle, let's immediately pile the perpetual motion machine of the second kind ...
          1. Andrey_K
            Andrey_K 10 August 2013 15: 56 New
            0
            Well reduced, but not to zero.
            In any case, this only confirms my words.
            And where did you see the perpetual motion machine?
  40. Svetlana
    Svetlana 8 August 2013 22: 01 New
    0
    Quote: Andrey_K
    inside the engine, the air pressure will be equal to the outside

    I would not want the pressure inside the engine before the compressor to be equal to the outside (at an altitude of 26 km the atmospheric pressure is 0,02 bar), since then the compressor will need a compression ratio of 485 to compress the air to 9,7 bar
    There are so many turbines and compressors in the Saber scheme, I would not want to add another turbine to generate additional electricity and cool the air in front of the compressor. This additional turbine will lower the pressure at its tail compared to the pressure at its inlet. To compensate for the decrease in pressure, additional compressor stages will have to be introduced, which will increase the size of the engine.
    1. Andrey_K
      Andrey_K 8 August 2013 23: 25 New
      0
      Well, it is clear that when I said "equal to the outside" I meant "this is how it should be" - if the pressure needs to be increased, then the air will simply need to be cooled less.
      At the tail of the turbine of electric power generation, the pressure will not be less - because the air speed will be less.
      This is a school problem about "flows into one pipe into another" - if at the turbine inlet air flows in at a speed of 1000 m / s and at the outlet flows at a speed of 1 m / s, then it is clear that either the temperature or density or air pressure will be 1000 times more at the outlet of the turbine - since the mass of the inflowing air will be the same and the volume of the outgoing air is 1000 times less.
      Therefore, one cannot say that "the pressure on the tail will be less" - it will not be less and it will have to be further reduced by lowering the temperature.
      And an additional decrease in pressure by electrical generation will not be superfluous, as well as megawatts of electricity, which can then be put into operation by the refrigeration generator or additional heating and acceleration of exhaust gases - but you never know where - there would be energy and there is always where to adapt it.
  41. Svetlana
    Svetlana 10 August 2013 07: 29 New
    0
    Quote: Andrey_K
    you cannot say that "the pressure on the tail will be less"

    This is really a school task, because you yourself said that:
    1) Your proposed turbine performs positive work A = P * dV> 0, which is used to generate electricity.
    2) The turbine you have proposed reduces the temperature of the gas at its outlet.
    From here, according to the equation of state of the gas P = R * T / V, we conclude that P- decreases, since T- decreases, and V- increases (dV = A / P> 0)
    1. Andrey_K
      Andrey_K 10 August 2013 11: 15 New
      0
      The temperature (potential but not real!) Reduces the turbine, but not to the end.
      The turbine only selects the kinetic translational energy of the incoming air - if this energy turns into temperature, then the pressure will be transcendental (as happens in modern engines).
      But there is also an increase in temperature from compression - the gas slows down and compresses.
      The turbine does not take temperature from compression.
      It must be taken with a cooler and then engine performance will increase to fantastic:
      1) Increased bypass ratio - due to air pre-cooling.
      2) Due to the fact that the internal compressors / turbines are powered by electricity, and not by a mechanical drive, it is possible to regulate the air flows between the circuits and maintain the engine in the most economical mode - at any speed.
      3) Super-economical mode - you can supply a reduced amount of fuel to the combustion chamber - again due to the ability to adjust the air volume in the primary circuit.
      4) Flights in a rarefied atmosphere - the second circuit can be shut off altogether and all the air pumped through the first - this will be the limit of the rarefied atmosphere below which the engine will lack oxygen ... unless of course you still increase the speed of the device.
  42. Svetlana
    Svetlana 10 August 2013 07: 34 New
    0
    Quote: abrakadabre
    How much will an hour of flight time cost for this Falcon?

    The service life of the B-52 is 50 years (in service with the US Air Force since 1955). in order to calculate how much an hour of flight time will cost, it is necessary to estimate how much hydrogen and kerosene will cost in 50 years.
    1. abrakadabre
      abrakadabre 11 August 2013 12: 37 New
      0
      However, it is possible to make calculations in the prices of a particular year already known. How this is done. Naturally, the future is making adjustments. However, general inflation trends indicate that the likelihood of higher prices in the future is higher than the possible reduction in price.
  43. gridasov
    gridasov 11 August 2013 13: 21 New
    0
    From the number of people brought up on the same scientific basis, the conclusions and results remain uniform and without promising. No one takes into account the effect of the interaction of the air flow itself, both inside and outside. No one calculates the degree and algorithm of ionization of the surfaces of the expiration, and hence the polarization zone. This, in turn, means that at a certain level of such polarization, force vectors and forces themselves arise that form new areas of potential concentration, but with fuel and control equipment. Therefore, the aircraft are destroyed and the flight is not stable. All calculations show that the layout of the main forms will provide only a certain level of speeds and flight duration.
  44. Svetlana
    Svetlana 11 August 2013 21: 59 New
    0
    Quote: Andrey_K
    But there is also an increase in temperature from compression - the gas slows down and compresses.

    The proposed turbine is planned to be placed inside the engine between its inlet diffuser (which converts the flow into a subsonic one) and the compressor. At the location of the proposed turbine, the flow is subsonic. There is a ratio of L.A. Vulis. for a flow in a pipe of constant cross-section: (M ^ 2-1) dw / w = -dA / c ^ 2, where M is the Mach number, w is the flow velocity, dw is the change in the flow velocity, c is the speed of sound, dA is the work , performed by changing the flow rate. If the gas flow does work dA> 0 on the turbine wheel, then in the subsonic mode it accelerates, its density decreases. That is, in the subsonic mode, the gas passing through the proposed turbine will not slow down, but accelerate, and accordingly, not to contract, but to expand.
    1. Andrey_K
      Andrey_K 11 August 2013 23: 23 New
      0
      I suggest placing a turbine instead of an inlet diffuser - it will translate the air flow into a subsonic one.
      In a supersonic flow, it is just as possible to obtain energy as in a subsonic one.
      And quite rightly - without cooling, the air will expand - under the influence of increasing pressure, which is caused by an increase in temperature - the gas is unable to compress, accelerates.
      To prevent this, cooling is necessary.
      The relation of Vulis obviously refers to the adiabatic process with constant internal air energy.
      If the gas, as it brakes, cools, then no expansion and acceleration will occur - the gas will slow down and simultaneously compress in volume.
      Such a cooled, compressed and delayed gas will be very convenient to direct to the combustion chamber where mixing with the fuel will occur in the most favorable conditions for this.
  45. Svetlana
    Svetlana 11 August 2013 22: 16 New
    0
    Quote: abrakadabre
    the future is making adjustments.

    since oil deposits are running out and the hydrogen reserves on earth are very large in the form of water, the ratio of the price of kerosene to the price of hydrogen will increase all the time, and in 50 years it will become more than 1.
  46. Svetlana
    Svetlana 12 August 2013 12: 45 New
    0
    Quote: Andrey_K
    I suggest placing a turbine instead of an input diffuser

    A supersonic airplane with a turbine propeller instead of an inlet diffuser? There will be a very large increase in entropy at one unorganized shock wave, which sat on this propeller in a supersonic flow. So no one does, but maybe you can.
    1. Andrey_K
      Andrey_K 12 August 2013 16: 20 New
      0
      It depends on the turbine - I don’t know what such a turbine should look like.
      If you can regulate the electric load on the propeller drive, then you can adjust the energy loss and the magnitude of the "shock wave" on each propeller.

      And anyway, it’s better to extract the energy right away than then it will go into temperature without any meaning.
      Well, I’m not going to build an engine - this is just an idea, in the hope that it will spread in itself and subsequently find use - it would be good for our engines than for strangers.
      1. anomalocaris
        anomalocaris 12 August 2013 18: 27 New
        0
        Well so how about perpetuum mobile?
  47. Svetlana
    Svetlana 12 August 2013 21: 11 New
    0
    Quote: Andrey_K
    I don’t know what such a turbine should look like

    The turbine can be made in the form of a hollow cone made of tungsten with multiple helical influxes on its surface. The height of the influx increases with distance from the tip of the cone. The turbine cone itself is mounted on an axial power take-off shaft connected to the rotor of the generator. Cooled air may be introduced into the gap between the base of the turbine cone and the thrust bearing to cool the bearing. The calculation of three-dimensional supersonic flow around such a supersonic turbine is possible on modern supercomputers.
    1. Andrey_K
      Andrey_K 12 August 2013 21: 59 New
      0
      And why is it not easy - a lot of thin carbon fiber blades, inclined at a very small angle (1-5 degrees), behind the first propeller - the second, behind it the third, etc. until all the energy of the air is converted into electrical energy.
      The same blades can be used to cool air - inside the micro capillaries, refrigerant circulates, transferring heat to the axis of rotation, where it is already removed through the axis.
      Or laser cooling can be used - microchannels filled with special gas inside the blades, cooled by lasers - heat supply is not required, only the laser light is supplied through the side lenses on the blades.
  48. Svetlana
    Svetlana 13 August 2013 12: 21 New
    +1
    Quote: Andrey_K
    And why not just - a lot of thin carbon fiber blades

    at a braking temperature of 1320K, carbon fiber will quickly burn out in a supersonic (5M) air flow. At this temperature, the bodies glow with white light. Probably the metal of the turbine must also be protected from above with some high-temperature ceramics such as beryllium oxide BeO.
    1. Andrey_K
      Andrey_K 13 August 2013 13: 47 New
      0
      And cooling for what?
      There will be a dual purpose - the blades will be constantly cooled so as not to burn out and also the air will be cooled.
      Teflon coated surface ...

      True, I don’t know whether it is possible to make a sufficiently effective cooling system, and even inside a rotating fan.

      Whatever the easily evaporating liquid (such as liquid nitrogen) - circulates under the action of centrifugal forces - the gaseous part tends to the center of rotation, and the liquid part, on the contrary, from the center of rotation in which it condenses.
      1. anomalocaris
        anomalocaris 13 August 2013 16: 12 New
        0
        You have found each other! Just a little bit and complete ecstasy will come!
        Children, there is such a law, valid for a closed system, mass and energy are conserved. Law of Lomonosov-Lavoisier. It works absolutely iron, alas for you ...
        I read your posts for a long time, quietly precipitated, and I don’t even know how you can be helped. Or you just do fat trolling, well, medicine is powerless ...
        1. Andrey_K
          Andrey_K 13 August 2013 17: 44 New
          0
          I already asked you - where did you see the violation of conservation laws?
          But you only do that you insert meaningless remarks, to which it makes no sense to respond.
          1. anomalocaris
            anomalocaris 13 August 2013 18: 30 New
            0
            Read my comments above. Repeat I'm not going to. And the generator is powered by the engine, and feeding it is a classic example.
            My advice is, do not put an impeller in the air intake of the engine, let's install a plug! It will be simpler and more efficient ...
            You just don’t understand why a compressor is needed in a turbojet engine ...
            1. Andrey_K
              Andrey_K 13 August 2013 19: 46 New
              0
              Whoever says about the "generator powered by the engine and feeding it" is your invention.
              The generator is powered by the engine, but the engine itself is powered by ordinary kerosene.
              Where did you get the crazy idea that the engine itself is powered by a generator?

              Unless the compressors are powered by electricity - but he eats no more energy than can be obtained from the generator.

              And let’s explain - why does the engine have a compressor, otherwise I misunderstood this new idea of ​​yours again — I suppose again some kind of "idea" that the entire engine is powered by a generator.
      2. alex86
        alex86 14 August 2013 20: 11 New
        0
        Quote: Andrey_K
        Whatever the easily evaporating liquid (such as liquid nitrogen) - circulates under the action of centrifugal forces - the gaseous part tends to the center of rotation, and the liquid part, on the contrary, from the center of rotation in which it condenses.

        This is a well-known application of a "heat pipe" for combining a heat exchanger and a fan (compressor); I read the description about 30 years ago.
        This is not in the order of criticism, but as part of a general comment.
  49. Svetlana
    Svetlana 13 August 2013 16: 25 New
    +1
    ntakjy
    Quote: Andrey_K
    Teflon coated surface ...

    Teflon decomposes already at 700K, and the turbine heats up at 5M to 1320K, so Teflon is not suitable as a coating material for turbine blades. In modern gas turbine installations, special channels are often used inside the turbine blades for gas cooling, so it is apparently possible to make a turbine cooling system.
    1. Andrey_K
      Andrey_K 13 August 2013 17: 04 New
      0
      Well, yes, Teflon is not very resistant ... but its friction coefficient is very small.
      Perhaps it will not reach 1200 degrees, and even with a working cooling system.
      If the coating material is very slippery, the heating from friction against air will be small and the turbine's efficiency is greater.
      But probably, you can’t do without ceramics ... and then the blades are made of titanium.
      1. anomalocaris
        anomalocaris 13 August 2013 18: 33 New
        0
        The farther into the forest, the thicker the partisans ... You can cover the surfaces with at least a half-meter layer of Teflon, the air will not "slide" over it better.
        1. Andrey_K
          Andrey_K 13 August 2013 19: 50 New
          0
          Well, does such a coating really help ships, why is water worse than air?

          The smoother the surface of the material, the less micro-irregularities on it — air does not dissipate about these irregularities, and therefore friction decreases.

          This is physics - what do you have against it?
          1. anomalocaris
            anomalocaris 14 August 2013 16: 10 New
            0
            There is such a fish, called a shark, and so its nichrome skin is not smooth. There is just such a science - hydrodynamics. Just bother reading it at least. As far as I understand, you did not study in the USSR?
            1. Andrey_K
              Andrey_K 14 August 2013 18: 13 New
              0
              Hydrodynamics has no relation to supersonic.
              It’s just - almost ballistics.
              And it differs from aerodynamics - water is incompressible, air is compressed, the density of water and air is different.
              (therefore, shark skin is from another opera)
              You do not know what to write anymore - instead of spitting bile, you are better off writing something useful.
              Or at least instead of rhetorical exclamations of something specific - formulas, physical laws - it is with them that one should operate in physical disputes, and not with "shark skin".
              1. anomalocaris
                anomalocaris 14 August 2013 18: 37 New
                0
                What are you saying! Oh well...

                Well, baby, I’ll write you a tensor of flow around a curved surface with a hypersonic flow, do you realize it? Excuse me, if you don’t understand how this or that fundamental law works (and you don’t even need to know differential calculus), writing at least a bunch of very clever signs will not add to your mind.
                1. Andrey_K
                  Andrey_K 14 August 2013 19: 37 New
                  0
                  Well, I'll write you a tensor around a curved surface with a hypersonic flow

                  Well then maybe you will say - because of what objects are heated in the air stream.
                  I offer the following answer options:
                  a) Aerodynamic drag
                  b) Friction
                  c) Another reason

                  I think that by applying your "envelope tensor" you can easily answer this question.
  50. Svetlana
    Svetlana 14 August 2013 19: 57 New
    -1
    Quote: anomalocaris
    no need to put an impeller in the air intake of the engine, let's install a plug!

    But then you have to carry an order of magnitude more tons of liquid oxygen. The conical impeller-turbine in front of the inlet diffuser can contribute to cooling the air behind it, which will reduce the requirements for flow parameters in the helium air cooling circuit in front of the air compressor.
    1. Andrey_K
      Andrey_K 15 August 2013 02: 03 New
      +1
      A cone turbine cannot efficiently absorb 100% of the kinetic energy of the air.
      High efficiency can only be found on a propeller turbine.