Military Review

Why China Su-35 - Chinese expert

75
Why China Su-35 - Chinese expert



Military expert Liu Linchuan gave an extensive interview where he explained the need for China to buy Russian Su-35 fighters, mil.news.sina.com.cn reports today (The material is cited with some abbreviations - note "Military Parity").

... According to the expert, the Su-35 does not have stealth capabilities and the ability to make a supersonic cruise flight, but has super-maneuverability due to the use of 117С engines with thrust vector control. In this regard, it is superior to any third-generation fighter (meaning the fourth generation - further, the world classification system of fighter generations will be used for ease of understanding - approx. "VP").

Su-35 is equipped with a powerful on-board Irbis radar with a passive phased array. Russia claims that this radar is able to detect a target with an EPR (effective scattering area) 0,01 sq. m at a distance 90 km. The United States announced that in some angles of the EPR F-35 is equal to this value, the EPR F-22 - 0,001 square. m (the company Lockheed Martin reported the size of the front EPR fighter F-22, equal to 0,0001 sq. m - approx. "VP"). But in some countries there are reports that the EPR F-35 is 0,05 square. m, F-22 - 0,01 square. If the Su-35 radar detects targets with 0,01 radar signature square. at a distance of 90 km, then at this distance it can detect F-22 or at least F-35. Thus, the advantage of American fighters in stealth technology can be largely leveled.

Compared with the Su-27, the new Su-35 multi-purpose combat aircraft of the 4 ++ generation is equipped with engines with a significantly greater load, besides having deflectable nozzles. EDSU (electrical remote control system) Su-27 has low parameters and “poor opportunities”, Su-35 is equipped with a much more advanced digital EDSU. The upgraded fighter has avionics in the form of electronic displays ("glass cabin"), which significantly increases the pilot's situational awareness and improves cockpit ergonomics, an increased supply of internal fuel with the ability to mount external fuel tanks significantly increases the range and combat radius. In addition, the Su-35 is equipped with the latest EW systems. In contrast, the Su-27 has insufficient capacity for striking ground targets, which significantly limits the flexibility of its combat use.

China is very interested in obtaining 117 engines, it will be an additional benefit for us. Russia will not supply these engines without Su-35, it must be understood. China still needs Russian engines and no need to look down on them.

There is also a great interest in the Irbis radar. At present, China has already mastered the technology of creating a radar with an active phased antenna array (AFAR), but this does not mean that we refuse to look at foreign developments. “Irbis” has unique things, first of all advanced software algorithms. Often, the Russian equipment is made very rough, but has good performance characteristics. Getting to know “Irbis” will help us understand the development of key technologies in this area, we must find out the strengths and weaknesses of foreign developments in order to make our systems better.

In the arsenal of the Su-35 there are long-range missiles with ramjet engines (ramjet). We are also developing such rockets, but why not look at other people's designs, if there is such an opportunity?

Could Su-35 upset the balance of power in Northeast Asia? China pursues an independent foreign policy and does not threaten anyone. We are experiencing the J-20 fighter, it also does not threaten the military balance in Asia. However, some countries are invading Chinese territorial waters. Japan has a flawed mentality, and all the time declares a Chinese threat. This country is characterized by cringing before Europe and America, disrespect for Asia and contempt for China. This mentality persists.

China buys Su-35 because in the development of our promising fighter J-20 and J-31 there were big problems? The acquisition of the Su-35 is necessary for the fastest growing power of the PLA Air Force, as there are serious reasons for the occurrence of a major war with Japan. In the development of fifth-generation fighter aircraft, China is going step by step. Soon J-20 will receive new engines with thrust vector control, will acquire super-maneuverability and cruising supersonic. By its characteristics, it certainly surpasses the Su-35.

J-31 has a less powerful radar than Su-35, simply due to the fact that the area of ​​the antenna field in the nose of this fighter is smaller, but such a requirement is not put. In the future, the fighter will receive more powerful engines and will be able to make a supersonic cruising flight.

Tests of a new fighter take an average of six years before it enters the military aviation. Of course, we will intensify the schedule of test flights, using new prototypes. But this time cannot be drastically reduced, this is the law of science. Some inhabitants believe that once a fighter took off, they should adopt and criticize the “intellectual patriots,” who are better versed in technical issues.

Perhaps the Russian fighter T-50 PAKFA technologically advanced than the J-20 and, of course, better than the Su-35. But this fighter is still immature, is being tested, still not tested weapons. If we buy or join the T-50 program, we will lose independence in this field of armaments. I am sure that the choice of the Su-35 was correct, and to a certain extent it will be able to resist F-22 and F-35.

Objectively speaking, stealth gives a great advantage in air combat, the main thing is that the enemy’s detection range decreases. The F-22 is capable of flying on a cruising supersonic, thanks to which its six air combat missiles have a higher initial velocity, the US Air Force relies on long-range missile strikes, but the Su-35 will be a serious contender.

In the super-maneuverability of the Su-35 there is a big combat sense. Many experts believe that the Cobra maneuver performed by the Su-27 fighter has no practical use in aerial combat. The engines of this fighter do not have a controlled thrust vector; in the event of a rocket launching or firing from a cannon, the plane may lose controllability and break loose into a tailspin. Therefore, we still have not seen how the Russian Su-27, using this maneuver, use weapons. Before performing the Cobra, the aircraft should reduce speed to 400 km / h, which is significantly less than the high subsonic speeds that are commonly used in air combat. It will take time before the fighter returns to performing energetic maneuvers and picks up the necessary speed, so on the Su-27 the advantages of this maneuver cannot be fully utilized. Another thing Su-35, equipped with much more powerful engines. The presence of thrust vector control allows the fighter to not rely on traditional aerodynamic controls, which are ineffective at such speeds, there is no threat of disruption into a tailspin, which will allow the aircraft to launch rockets and fire a cannon. Thus, the excellent maneuverability and controllability of the Su-35 will allow you to effectively use this maneuver in aerial combat.
Originator:
http://mil.news.sina.com.cn/2013-07-23/0929732367.html
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  1. tronin.maxim
    tronin.maxim 24 July 2013 06: 12 New
    10
    Article +. The Chinese expert said everything correctly. Here's someone you can listen to, not an American who promotes a gold dig!
    1. Scoun
      Scoun 24 July 2013 12: 00 New
      14
      Quote: tronin.maxim
      Chinese expert said everything correctly

      In the development of fifth-generation fighters, China goes step by step. Soon J-20 will receive new engines with thrust vector control, gain super-maneuverability and cruising supersonic. In its characteristics, it certainly surpasses the Su-35.

      Exactly .. the Chinese expert said everything right))) and at the same time he also says that it is not necessary to look at us "flawed" from a high ...
      China is very interested in getting 117C engines, this will be an additional benefit for us. Russia will not supply these engines without the Su-35, it must be understood. China still needs Russian engines and do not look down on them.

      Further writes ...
      Attention! , the Russian T-50 PAKFA fighter is technologically advanced, than j-20

      according to this expert our T-50 is possible! better than their J-20, but at the same time our "inferior Su-35 ......
      I’m sure that the choice of the Su-35 was right, and to a certain extent, he will be able to withstand the F-22 and F-35.

      This iksperd stupidly justifies himself to the Chinese like they are so cool and the J-20 did, and they’re so good at fiddling with the Su-35, and at the same time if it’s something to fight with the F-35 and maybe fight with the F-22 ...
      Irbis has unique things, primarily advanced software algorithms. Often, Russian equipment is made very rude, but has good performance. Familiarity with Irbis will help us understand the development of key technologies in this area, we must find out the strengths and weaknesses of other people's developments in order to make our systems better.

      In general, after reading this article, I am no longer just convinced that the Chinese do not need to sell our planes, I am generally against the sale of any of our advanced essentially weapons and developments.
      1. smirnov
        smirnov 24 July 2013 13: 30 New
        15
        In plain text: we need engines, radar and rocket technology ... when our already wake up ...
    2. Vovka levka
      Vovka levka 24 July 2013 14: 44 New
      +2
      Quote: tronin.maxim
      Article +. The Chinese expert said everything correctly. Here's someone you can listen to, not an American who promotes a gold dig!

      The Americans will not sell anything superfluous, but here they are ready to sell everything, a matter of price (rollback).
      But what for copying? Learn everything to the bolts. Or someone else doubts?
      1. smsk
        smsk 24 July 2013 15: 05 New
        +1
        Without technology, they cannot copy these planes. Although of course it is a pity, the units themselves have SU-35.
        Here it is necessary to choose what to export, oil and resources or high-tech weapons; of the combat aircraft, only the SU-35 will probably be in demand in the market, well, maybe the Yak-130. The main thing is that the money earned from the sale goes to the development of the industry, and does not spread through the pockets.
        The USSR, when it was being, was not making bad money on arms exports, so there are traditions.
        1. Vovka levka
          Vovka levka 24 July 2013 17: 55 New
          0
          Quote: smsk
          Without technology, they cannot copy these planes. Although of course it is a pity, the units themselves have SU-35.
          Here it is necessary to choose what to export, oil and resources or high-tech weapons; of the combat aircraft, only the SU-35 will probably be in demand in the market, well, maybe the Yak-130. The main thing is that the money earned from the sale goes to the development of the industry, and does not spread through the pockets.
          The USSR, when it was being, was not making bad money on arms exports, so there are traditions.

          Everything is correct, but .....
          Do you know how much you bought all the technical documentation for the MIG-29, at the end of the 80s? Take an interest, the price will shock you. Not high, below the baseboard.
          1. smsk
            smsk 24 July 2013 18: 38 New
            0
            Quote: Vovka Levka
            Quote: smsk
            Without technology, they cannot copy these planes. Although of course it is a pity, the units themselves have SU-35.
            Here it is necessary to choose what to export, oil and resources or high-tech weapons; of the combat aircraft, only the SU-35 will probably be in demand in the market, well, maybe the Yak-130. The main thing is that the money earned from the sale goes to the development of the industry, and does not spread through the pockets.
            The USSR, when it was being, was not making bad money on arms exports, so there are traditions.

            Everything is correct, but .....
            Do you know how much you bought all the technical documentation for the MIG-29, at the end of the 80s? Take an interest, the price will shock you. Not high, below the baseboard.


            I think in this case the sale of technical documentation is out of the question. If so, then history repeats itself, the enemies of the people are in power.
  2. serge-68-68
    serge-68-68 24 July 2013 06: 16 New
    25
    The expert is cunning about the superiority of the J-20 over the Su-35. Here they still have to work and work. And not only over the engines stolen from us.
    I would like to believe that when selling the latest technology to China, our leaders are well aware of the consequences.
    1. Dimy4
      Dimy4 24 July 2013 08: 58 New
      +1
      To be needed, you need to solve problems, if there are no problems, you need to create them, in the event of a conflict, neither they themselves nor their relatives will shed blood. This is exclusively our prerogative.
    2. Knizhnik
      Knizhnik 24 July 2013 11: 38 New
      +5
      A military expert, as a patriot, has no right to belittle the domestic one; he already said a lot about the qualities of the Su-35
      1. Sergey_K
        Sergey_K 24 July 2013 13: 58 New
        0
        A military expert, as an expert, must take a sober view of things. Patriot, this is not the one who hangs noodles on the ears of both himself and people.
    3. arutun
      arutun 24 July 2013 11: 53 New
      +4
      I agree that they primarily need the filling of the aircraft, and most importantly, this is a new radar and engine.
      And since in the next 6-8 years they will not have serial 5 generation fighters that could compete with the Su-35, so they decided to buy a batch of 24 fighters.
      They kill two birds with one stone at the same time.
      1. Get the technology to which they will come in 8-10 years.
      2. Get 24 4 ++ generation aircraft that are really capable of withstanding the F22.
    4. slava7075
      slava7075 24 July 2013 15: 24 New
      0
      Selling airplanes to China is of course a political step and not an economic gain. Here over look at it along with other steps of Russia and China. And the main ones are energy projects of the two countries. Therefore, the Su-35 is a political tool. And the fact that the Chinese are trying to take a daredevil. They are still far from us. Engines will not be normal for them soon. And without this, everything loses its meaning.
  3. DEMENTIY
    DEMENTIY 24 July 2013 06: 21 New
    0
    Do you have competent subject specialists? Please comment. Experience on the Yak-52 is not enough. request
  4. Revolver
    Revolver 24 July 2013 06: 30 New
    13
    The Chinese are slightly trying to hide that they are going to steal technology. Does Russia need it?
  5. serge-68-68
    serge-68-68 24 July 2013 06: 34 New
    +9
    What to comment on? Two experimental J-20s and one J-31 in comparison with the production Su-35? Information (open) on them is not and cannot be. And you can chat with anything. One thing is for sure - the Chinese need engines for their fifth generation cars.
    1. Gooch
      Gooch 24 July 2013 06: 41 New
      0
      Serial? What? 6 pieces in the aerobatic team is a series? lol
    2. 77bob1973
      77bob1973 24 July 2013 07: 30 New
      +1
      Yes, they don’t get nichrome with engines, so they bought a batch (more than 100) of engines for fighters.
    3. Wedmak
      Wedmak 24 July 2013 09: 23 New
      +1
      And how many of those serial Su-35s? A lot more?
  6. Orel
    Orel 24 July 2013 06: 35 New
    +6
    They will buy a small batch, and in a couple of years meet the "new Chinese" fighter. If we are to sell it, then immediately agree on a large batch and money in advance)
  7. vladsolo56
    vladsolo56 24 July 2013 06: 38 New
    +7
    You won’t praise yourself, as you stand spat upon)))
  8. parazit
    parazit 24 July 2013 06: 39 New
    +7
    I don’t understand only one thing ... WHY to sell technologies that have not yet been implemented at home ?! Or I don’t understand something in this life ... request
  9. Humen
    Humen 24 July 2013 06: 42 New
    +7
    The Chinese are already openly saying that they just need technology. And that only for this they buy weapons.
    1. rolik
      rolik 24 July 2013 09: 56 New
      +1
      Quote: Humen
      The Chinese are already openly saying that they just need technology.

      In this particular case, the Chinese need the product itself. They will not develop the technology for creating engines in a year or two, 10-20 years will be required for this. Unless, of course, ours is merged with their technology. But gliders and Mozambique can copy, the same story with the locator. If they could, they would do it and say that ours sucks. However, they take and do not frown. Interestingly, the Chinese have a wind tunnel for purging layouts, like ours. Or do they stupidly copy according to the drawings?
  10. Alex Nick
    Alex Nick 24 July 2013 06: 51 New
    +1
    The expert does not hide his desire - “we need to find out the strengths and weaknesses of other people's developments in order to make our systems better.” In other words (Copy what we can).
  11. Suhov
    Suhov 24 July 2013 07: 07 New
    12
    Previously, they stole and were not afraid.
    Now they’re afraid ... they won’t let them steal.
  12. Letnab
    Letnab 24 July 2013 07: 17 New
    +2
    in general, the recognition that their technology is not so hot so far, it would be necessary to steal that the thread from a neighbor ...
  13. KazaK Bo
    KazaK Bo 24 July 2013 07: 21 New
    +4
    How technology strides! Only 10 years ago, everyone deservedly sang the Su-27 hosanna, and now this is already a technique that does not quite meet the tactics of modern air combat ...
    There is something to be proud of! And you should be proud! It would be great if our "generals of the economy" could learn how to apply, or rather introduce, these ultra-modern technologies and technical ideas in our daily life. And while modern military technologies are locked up, the economic return will be very low from the defense industry. It is understandable, with private ownership they will not give up new items for nothing, and the new owners of "factories and ships" are in no hurry to invest ... But what prevents the same defense industry enterprises from introducing their developments into products for peaceful purposes? Yes, for this it is necessary to open new enterprises ... funds are needed ... But they have already appeared in the defense industry complex! And things are still in place. What a vicious circle!
    And don't worry if the Chinese "copy" our technologies. To do this, they will need at least 10-12 years ... and then we will talk about the Su-35 in the same way as we talk about the Su-27 - THANKS TO THIS AIRCRAFT, but we ALREADY HAVE BETTER! Technological progress cannot be stopped.
    1. serge-68-68
      serge-68-68 24 July 2013 08: 13 New
      +5
      The funny thing is that you can only judge whether a particular technique is outdated or not outdated by its actual use for its intended purpose. And there was none. Well, they made a kind of aggregate, which seems to be "faster, higher and stronger." So what? Eyes, eggs, knee and shin cannot be pumped up - any goner should remember this when meeting a bodybuilder. :)
      1. rolik
        rolik 24 July 2013 09: 57 New
        +2
        Quote: serge-68-68
        You can’t pump up your eyes, eggs, knee and lower leg - any goner should remember this when meeting with a bodybuilder. :)

        Kadik forgot)))))
        1. jagdpanzer
          jagdpanzer 25 July 2013 21: 05 New
          0
          YOU CAN DRINK A SHIN) sensitivity is lost)
      2. skrgar
        skrgar 24 July 2013 11: 54 New
        0
        Quote: serge-68-68
        The funny thing is that you can only judge whether a particular technique is outdated or not outdated by its actual use for its intended purpose. And there was none. Well, they made a kind of aggregate, which seems to be "faster, higher and stronger." So what? Eyes, eggs, knee and shin cannot be pumped up - any goner should remember this when meeting a bodybuilder. :)

        Well, a bodybuilder is just muscle foam .. has nothing to do with strength .. And a goner who has a spirit is quite capable of a bodybuilder "pumping up" his eyes and knee .. and even more so eggs ..)))
    2. aksakal
      aksakal 24 July 2013 12: 00 New
      +1
      Greetings, Kazak Bo! And why do not you see that the same Sukhoi is already releasing a superjet? Is it really not for acting on their achievements and experience gained during the development of the fighter? Involved and more like that, the Superjet problems mainly in air conditioning, which the fighter has never had. True, it was also surprising that the Superjet had problems on the chassis, the fighters on the chassis never had them, well, then the VAF is here to help us, why such a thing? Irkut will also create the MS-21, UVZ uses many developments on the civilian, its structural unit ChTZ for the tank has created a great X-shaped engine, it can be used (and planned) on tractors and others in a derated version. VPKashniki recently tested the BTR-90 on new principles of movement, the so-called hybrid engines, the power reserve already jumped up to 940 km at a speed of 40 km / h! Improve the sheet with other driving characteristics, a rotary-blade motor is used there, a new word in technology. And also everyone is planning to use it in the Mobile! Do you have more examples? Or enough? I understand that it’s not enough, even Almaz-Antey will use new AFARs for civil aviation controllers. More examples? It’s not enough for me either, but at least I see some progress, and it makes me happy.
  14. Suhov
    Suhov 24 July 2013 07: 37 New
    +5
    In its characteristics, it certainly surpasses the Su-35.

    Indeed, an example of when boasting is worse than theft ...
    wassat
    1. Thunderbolt
      Thunderbolt 24 July 2013 09: 52 New
      +5
      Well, the author is Chinese and wrote for a Chinese audience. If he said otherwise, he would have been beaten up by the Internet by the nunchaku or called to the city party committee (after all, he may be the party himself).
  15. Jorg
    Jorg 24 July 2013 07: 41 New
    10
    Damn well scream.
    - Yes, of course we have, but why not look at it with one eye.
    Yes, we also have it, but we will be happy to see.
    And we also have this, etc.
    Russian products are rough, operational properties, however, are good, so we will only see)
    Voyar maniacs are direct.
    Contemplators.

    But the fact that the Chinese, according to him, have learned the technology of radars with AFAR calls is alarming.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. slvevg
      slvevg 24 July 2013 10: 53 New
      +3
      AFAR technologies are as complex as harsh Chelyabinsk men ... To master in the Chinese mind is understanding how this thing works or the created working model that works without failures in all modes (but there are a lot of them)?
      1. JonnyT
        JonnyT 24 July 2013 13: 03 New
        +3
        China has assembled its AFAR thanks in part to cyber espionage .....


        The forum participants china-defense.com discuss the recently appeared on the Chinese Internet photograph of an airborne radar with active phased array antenna (AFAR), designed to equip tactical fighters J-10B.

        Judging by the photograph, the Chinese radar antenna is fixed, as, for example, on American radars. Forum users are pondering the question of what could be the difference in the characteristics of radars with fixed and mobile AFAR (the latter, in particular, is being developed for the European Typhoon fighter). We came to the conclusion that a fixed AFAR is lighter in mass, requires less electricity to operate, and has greater reliability. But unlike a fixed mobile antenna, it allows you to have a larger range of beam scanning, has better opportunities for viewing the lower hemisphere. The thing is, which of these advantages, from the point of view of a particular customer, are of more importance when developing and operating radars with this type of antenna ...

        It's called "I blinded you out of what was"
  16. awg75
    awg75 24 July 2013 07: 56 New
    +1
    Why China Su-35 - copy everything that is possible ..... this and the hedgehog understand
  17. VadimSt
    VadimSt 24 July 2013 08: 01 New
    +1
    In your style! YIN and YANG - sketch and adapt.
  18. knn54
    knn54 24 July 2013 08: 10 New
    +3
    Copying (and producing) gliders is one thing, and a reliable engine and modern avionics systems are another. And Russia does not stand still. The main thing is not to sell technology!
  19. nazgul-ishe
    nazgul-ishe 24 July 2013 08: 23 New
    0
    Let them copy. If it can be produced, technology and production are out of date. You need to do new things.
  20. RPG_
    RPG_ 24 July 2013 08: 34 New
    +2
    If 72 planes are bought, why not sell, and put the proceeds into new developments and improvement of the technical base. Naturally no one will sell 2-10 aircraft.
  21. Avenger711
    Avenger711 24 July 2013 08: 37 New
    +7
    That is, the Chinese do not own software technology, and, possibly, the mat itself. algorithms for radar operation. The question is, does someone promise them the source code for the firmware? Without this, hundreds of thousands of lines of compiled code are not penniless. And the question must be posed precisely in this regard. On the other hand, I wouldn’t take a combat plane without raw software, because there are still errors there, even if they wrote on Ada, and not on the pros, as is the case with the same Chinese FC-1, which clearly shows the weakness of the Chinese programming school .

    The Chinese have a well-known ass with engines, but it's a shame to say this directly and don't you see "looking from high" at our motors.

    T-50 immature. Interestingly, in the world there is at least someone who doubts that the T-50 will become serial in the foreseeable future? And what is the J-20 is still a big question, and expert estimates of it are closer to the bomb carrier, that there really is nobody there on it. And in general, if China is so cool that makes the J-20, then what for it Su-35?

    The acquisition of the Su-35 is necessary for the fastest increase in the power of the PLA air force, since there are serious reasons for the outbreak of a major war with Japan.


    Well, get a hundred right away. And it’s better 2 hundred, and even better give us money, we’ll build another plant somewhere near Vologda and make hundreds of airplanes, and our specialists will live in comfort at Chinese air bases to service these airplanes. And what will give a batch of 24 or even 48 cars, when China has several hundred of the same J-10 and J-11, somehow unclear. In the event of a major war, they will not provide 10% of the need for sorties.
    1. leon-iv
      leon-iv 24 July 2013 10: 01 New
      +1
      In the event of a major war, they will not provide 10% of the need for sorties.

      Here rather an attempt to steal technology. But there’s also a reason when they will squeeze Taiwan out there and need a fighter that will be able to shoot Amer’s F-35s and F-22s out of those that you can buy it only Su-35
      And how old are the firewoods that on the Khetai people in C # they are sawing?
      1. Avenger711
        Avenger711 24 July 2013 10: 33 New
        0
        1) The software embedded in C # does not write how it works through a virtual machine.
        2) Pros zayuzali to attract civilians. This is not a secret. On the F-22, too, like the pluses. As you know, Ada never took off, although experts say that there are many times fewer mistakes. Yes, and others. Veno-oriented American language Jovial from the same series of Pascal-like.

        24 Su-35 will not control everything that the United States will be able to exhibit in case of war, and the Su-35 will never reach the AWACS by its detection capabilities.
        1. leon-iv
          leon-iv 24 July 2013 10: 52 New
          +2
          Ok thanks, though if it is correct to write on the messenger it will be fine.
          24-no can not, but 50-70 completely. + Aircraft AWACS need to issue a very sickly escort, and the Su-35 SSZB. So that will be quite the topic.
          1. Avenger711
            Avenger711 24 July 2013 15: 43 New
            -1
            AWACS sees farther than any rocket flies. 50-70, when the total number of air grouping can easily exceed 1000 machines still do not solve.
  22. Pacifist
    Pacifist 24 July 2013 08: 42 New
    +4
    Soon, the J-20 will receive new engines with thrust vector control, will gain super-maneuverability and cruising supersonic. In its characteristics, it certainly surpasses the Su-35.
    Neighing from the heart laughing This is said by people who could not bring the life cycle of their engines to acceptable values ​​for 40 years. Although they are bought from dozens of them ...
  23. Black Colonel
    Black Colonel 24 July 2013 09: 07 New
    +1
    "In the near future, the J-20 will receive new engines with thrust vector control, will acquire super-maneuverability and cruising supersonic. In its characteristics, it certainly surpasses the Su-35."
    Well, then why buy a Su-35, if the J-20 is superior in performance? Eastern trick ... belay
    1. The comment was deleted.
  24. Wedmak
    Wedmak 24 July 2013 09: 29 New
    +3
    Yes, sly Chinese. In fact, he does not even hide the fact that they are buying a dryer "to see". The question of whether the money they pay us will pay off does not seem to bother him. And if so, then not everything is so good in the kingdom of the Chinese aircraft industry, as he says. Or rather, everything is bad: there are no new ideas, what has been done is not working well. What we managed to merge from the pictures, something does not fly as expected. Engines are not very good ...
    In general, a moan is heard - give us a new sample for copying !!! Well, taking it ...
  25. Stiletto
    Stiletto 24 July 2013 09: 29 New
    +3
    Striking frank impudence of the Chinese. At the household level, it’s the same as if a thief was sitting on the fence of your garden and openly arguing that he would have such ...
  26. Varies
    Varies 24 July 2013 09: 32 New
    +3
    The Chinese ekspert is lying, the Su-35 can do a supersonic flight without afterburner.
  27. MRomanovich
    MRomanovich 24 July 2013 09: 33 New
    +4
    Quote: Pacifist
    This is said by people who could not bring the life cycle of their engines to acceptable values ​​for 40 years. Although they are bought from dozens of them ...

    there is nothing to be surprised, because the Chinese are exclusively a hard worker, but not a creator, because the brains are working in the wrong direction and in order to create something at the proper level, they need to reconsider their mentality, etc.
  28. lotar
    lotar 24 July 2013 09: 34 New
    +1
    In order to use the stolen technology in the manufacture of your weapons it is extremely insufficient to have only samples, you also need to have the appropriate technical documentation and much more. Roughly speaking, having stolen an airplane and disassembled it into parts, the original is always obtained during reassembly.
  29. DAGESTAN333
    DAGESTAN333 24 July 2013 09: 36 New
    +6
    The Chinese like to constantly point out the contempt and disrespect of other nations in relation to themselves, while they themselves do not even try to hide their sense of superiority over others. It seems that the Chinese are a modest people, but in fact, such a high opinion of themselves ...
    Often, Russian equipment is made very rude
    - no, well, I would be silent in place of the Chinese ...
    Honestly, the logic of Mr. Liu is not entirely clear - why buy a Su-35, when the Chinese can build a better car ..?
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 24 July 2013 09: 59 New
      +2
      Honestly, the logic of Mr. Liu is not entirely clear

      Chinese SAME !!! They have their own, Chinese logic!
    2. stroporez
      stroporez 24 July 2013 11: 02 New
      +2
      Quote: DAGESTANETS333
      do not even try to hide their sense of superiority over others.
      ---- here it is necessary to understand sho China --- this is the center of the World. and people in this world ---- Toko are Chinese, all the rest are vile barbarians
    3. aksakal
      aksakal 24 July 2013 15: 04 New
      +1
      Quote: DAGESTANETS333
      Often, Russian equipment is made very rude

      - Well, it was a long time ago and the founder of SONY about these Soviet electronics said these words, that is, at that time about compact cassette recorders - remember, there were such ones - Romantic 306, Russia 204 and something else there? As part of its strategy, SONY is necessarily buying and testing products from competitors and potential competitors. And about these tape recorders this, alas, was true - made, I’m not even afraid of the word - clumsy, but you can’t be afraid and don’t shake over the purchase, because it was done reliably, it was difficult to break. A very good tape drive mechanism, reliable electric motors and speakers ... Since then, this stereotype has been going on: Often, Russian equipment is made very rude, but has good performance.. In military equipment at VPKshnikov this was previously generally a tradition of the Russian technical school. The technique was supposed to be designed for yesterday's peasant, who completed three classes. Therefore, a simplified interface, that is, the structural simplicity of the equipment, increased reliability, including protection from a fool, and BOT design, attractive appearance, enhanced characteristics of the main qualities to the detriment of operational characteristics, packaging and comfort when using it - yesterday’s peasant will kill like a thread.
      Now I live in another state - Kazakhstan, and Russian goods are for me such imports as other imported goods. Now, to a large extent, there has been a leveling out of the sharp differences between Russian and Western equipment, often you can’t even distinguish a purely Western and purely Russian product - they are so close in terms of characteristics, design, and quality. Mzhet, an expert and told the truth, only it has become outdated for about 10 years. I think the same is true for military equipment. I could be wrong, correct if that.
  30. Thunderbolt
    Thunderbolt 24 July 2013 09: 37 New
    +4
    China still needs Russian engines and no need patronize look at them.
    Here! So they look down on us. bully
  31. lordhigh
    lordhigh 24 July 2013 09: 55 New
    +2
    j-20 is superior to su-35)))) laughter ...
  32. APASUS
    APASUS 24 July 2013 10: 09 New
    +1
    Something mumbled about threats, something about Americans and a bit of technology.
    And he didn’t say why they need the Su-35 ........ rather doesn’t say that they lack the technology, they decided to buy a bit. Otherwise, they would have ordered 200, but no, they don’t want only samples
  33. Nayhas
    Nayhas 24 July 2013 10: 12 New
    +2
    There is a rather simple answer to the main question of the article "Why China Su-35" - China cannot buy anything else and it has no choice. Therefore, it does not matter whether the Su-35 is good or bad, they will still buy it. It is not clear only why our traders cannot profit from this for themselves, see bad traders ...
    1. Thunderbolt
      Thunderbolt 24 July 2013 10: 18 New
      0
      Eugene, but I did not understand at all what benefits our traders should have. Can you tell us a little more? hi
      1. Nayhas
        Nayhas 24 July 2013 11: 07 New
        +2
        Sell ​​as they wanted 48 cars, and not 24 is at least. Russia should dictate the conditions, because we will live without their dollars, but China will not receive a modern fighter anywhere else, and it will not grow its designers soon. Instead, our traders bent completely under them, well aware of why the Chinese needed such a small amount.
  34. Shadowcat
    Shadowcat 24 July 2013 10: 27 New
    0
    Fuck them, not Muscovy! (C)
    Nijia to the Chinese give nothing - thieves on thieves, and they themselves admit this. Do not see read carefully.
    but this does not mean that we refuse to look at foreign developments.

    We are also developing such missiles, but why not look at other people's developments, if there is such an opportunity?

    And further in the text ...
    Do you want-look at the exhibition, the rest - in Bobruisk animals!

    To begin with, take a good step - give us back Manchuria, and donate a couple of trillion rubles to the Far East, and then we will think about whether to trade with you so that later it will be "five bucks apiece."
    Do not forget that our Su-35 is a little older than the T-50 and it is impossible to transfer it to anyone, and even more so, even in the export version!
  35. vostok1982
    vostok1982 24 July 2013 10: 42 New
    0
    At the military level in this article, the Chinese said twice that the Su-35 does not have cruising supersonic. So some strange specialist.
    http://www.militaryparitet.com/ttp/data/ic_ttp/6009/
  36. Silkway0026
    Silkway0026 24 July 2013 10: 47 New
    +1
    so what did you raise the hubbub? any of our weapons for export becomes an object of study. in any country, not only in China. only if Africa buys - they are in one place, as is done, they still do not understand ...
    when selling weapons, there are always EXPORT equipment options, with obviously lower rates. and then, such elements as the engine cannot be stupidly peeped, alloys are important, the production technology of these alloys, namely the manufacturing technology of materials that are the BASIS of progress. They came up with clear heads for a lot of things, and we have all kinds of different things in China and we can’t realize it - there are no materials and manufacturing technologies.
  37. Mhpv
    Mhpv 24 July 2013 11: 30 New
    -1
    Anecdote:
    Chinese speaker at the international symposium with a report:
    -Rice- we suck, potatoes- we suck!
    Russian to him from the audience-And you do not suck?
    Chinese:
    - We don’t have such seeds!
    So here with airplanes of the type we are all able to do, but let me at least see what's inside.laughing
    And what about, he did not make a discovery of the cobra, this maneuver, if they learned how to do it, so far has an equal effect on everyone and new engines in more detail and interestingly about the Cobra here:
    http://www.airwar.ru/other/kr/kr2002_01/art_06/art_06.html
    1. matross
      matross 25 July 2013 12: 32 New
      0
      Not at all funny. Get the minus.
      1. matross
        matross 25 July 2013 13: 21 New
        -1
        That something became interesting - do the border guard units thump on the day of the border guard or on the day of the Navy?
  38. ImPerts
    ImPerts 24 July 2013 11: 33 New
    0
    The Chinese want to know what to strive for. The Chinese need a complex to confront Japan. Copying everything to the end is impossible, but you have to try. Considering all the pros and cons, the aircraft were sold, but on the condition that the party, not single copies. It seems 40 copies at least? And there is a flag in their hands. They still cannot fully copy. Take at least engines.
    Here is a link to the article, how they imagine it. Another 2010 year. Dynamics for 3 of the year - oh, super!
    http://www.inosmi.ru/fareast/20100905/162670138.html
    1. svp67
      svp67 24 July 2013 11: 49 New
      0
      Quote: ImPerts
      The Chinese want to know what to strive for. The Chinese need a complex to confront Japan.
      only if? And India, Vietnam, Russia?
  39. smiths xnumx
    smiths xnumx 24 July 2013 11: 47 New
    0
    In my opinion, China needs the SU-35 not only for copying, but also for achieving in the near future an absolute qualitative superiority over potential opponents in the region. Currently, the Chinese Air Force is armed with: 120 strategic bombers H-6 - modernized clones of Tu-16 (10 more are used as refuellers); 99 Su-30; 76 Su-27; 140 J-11 (Chinese clone Su-27); 200 J-10 (Chinese clone of the Israeli Lavi fighter; 72 front-line bombers JH-7 (analogous to our Su-24), 180 J-8 (a fighter based on the Su-15 and MiG-23), 389 J-7 (a highly modernized copy of the MiG-21, currently being withdrawn from service) and 240 Q-5 attack aircraft (modernization of the MiG-19 for strikes against ground targets. That is, about 1516 combat aircraft. There are also 12 AWACS aircraft: 5 KJ-2000 on the basis of the Il-76 and 7 KJ-200 on the basis of the Chinese copy of the An-12-Y-8. About 230 more combat aircraft (14 N-6, 23 Su-30, 20 J-10, 24 J-11, 35 JN -7, 48 J-8, 35 J-7, 30 Q-5) and 7 AWACS KJ-200 planes have the naval aviation of China.The most probable enemy of the so-called "rebellious province" Taiwan has 144 American F -16 (Block 20 early modification), 55 French Mirage-2000, 126 Chin-Kuo fighters and 68 American F-5 Tiger, that is, about 393 combat aircraft and 6 AWACS aircraft. (excluding strategic bombers, which Taiwan does not have, and taking into account the Chinese naval aviation) is combat aircraft - 4, 1: 1, in favor of China (1612 in China, 393 in Taiwan), AWACS aircraft - 3, 2: 1 in favor of China (19 for China, 6 for Taiwan) Another potential enemy Japan is armed with 198 F-15 fighter-interceptors, assembled under license, 75 F-2 fighters (Japanese version of the American F-16, the last modification of Block 52) and 80 American F-4 Phantom, which are being replaced by F-15, and it is planned to finally replace the F-35 Lightning. There are also 17 AWACS aircraft: 4 Boeing E-767, 13 E-2C Hawkeye. The ratio of forces is 4,6: 1, in favor of China (1612 for China, 353 for Japan), with an approximate equality of AWACS aircraft (19 for China, 17 for Japan). Vietnam, with which China has not yet settled territorial disputes over the Spratly archipelago, is armed with about 237 combat aircraft: 24 Su-30, 13 Su-27, about 60 Su-22 fighter-bombers, 140 MiG-21 ; Vietnam does not have AWACS aircraft. The power ratio is 6,8: 1, in favor of China. That is, China has achieved a fourfold superiority, and even sevenfold over Vietnam, over all its possible opponents. But the Su-35 is also required to achieve absolute quality superiority. I am not considering India yet, since the country has nuclear weapons. Yours faithfully! hi
  40. Deniska
    Deniska 24 July 2013 11: 59 New
    0
    I generally think that China needs to be sold only that it explodes during a parsing))) There will be no desire to copy
  41. Zhenya
    Zhenya 24 July 2013 12: 09 New
    0
    VERY Vain we are selling Su-35 to China, they will copy it and spit on promises, they all understand this, but extra headstock will not hinder top managers, it’s a very stupid decision, as if it didn’t work out sideways.
  42. Apollo
    Apollo 24 July 2013 12: 35 New
    +3
    These videos show which planes are the best in the world.




    In addition, the main thing is the human factor.

    Russian pilots have no equal in the world. good
    1. Mhpv
      Mhpv 24 July 2013 13: 48 New
      0
      Quote: Apollon
      Russian pilots have no equal in the world. good

      Even regarding jokes hi
  43. Alexey M
    Alexey M 24 July 2013 13: 45 New
    0
    Why China Su-35?

    To steal the technology for what. Not a fight between China and the United States is out of the question. This is all for us to prepare. A little slack will be sensed and clung to the throat.
  44. melan
    melan 24 July 2013 14: 09 New
    0
    I wonder where in the J-20 is definitely superior to SU-35 in the opinion of a Chinese expert?
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 24 July 2013 14: 45 New
      0
      Feeling of own greatness.
    2. tungus
      tungus 24 July 2013 15: 50 New
      0
      Quote: melan
      I wonder where in the J-20 is definitely superior to SU-35 in the opinion of a Chinese expert?

      Everything is simple! The Chinese plane is made strictly for the fake! That’s why superiority over ours.
      On Chinese devices, Chinese pilots feel how QI energy flows into the seventh chakra, and therefore, even a failure of the Chinese engine at an altitude of 12 km cannot destroy the pilot's harmony.
      On our own aircraft, though the engines do not fail, it’s a little taut with Chi energy.
      That is the whole point.
  45. Goldmitro
    Goldmitro 24 July 2013 16: 42 New
    0
    Serdyukovshchina continues to rule the ball! All for sale! Give the loot! And, by the way, it would not hurt our leaders making such decisions to think first (if there is something and if this is not just an effective manager for managing cash flows), but does Russia need to contribute to the accelerated development of China's technological and military power? Or someone, despite the events of 1969 at Domansky and other border conflicts provoked by China, still have pink glasses on their nose and Russian - Chinese - brothers forever, as in the song Moscow - Beijing? There is hardly any reason to forget all this and not take it into account in relations with China! On the other hand, one of our partners, including China, would agree to sell our modern developments that are of interest to us! Why don't we seriously think about the consequences?
  46. Odysseus
    Odysseus 24 July 2013 17: 03 New
    +1
    Comrades, well, read the article! Why these fantasies and speculation for the Chinese.
    Liu Linchuan explained to Russians in white why they need a Su-35
    1) China is very interested in engines.
    2) However, they do not mind looking at the radar and missiles.
    3) This will help in case of conflict in Japan while China does not have a J-20.
    From here it’s absolutely clear why you cannot sell China 100 or 200 Su-35s. They simply will not take them. In order to copy the engine, many planes are not needed.
    The position of the Russian Federation is also understandable.
    1) The traders from the authorities who have been ruling for 20 years are ready to sell their mother to their mother, as they say, "it has not yet begun"
    2) The PRC has a huge superiority in forces in the Far East, so the sale of the Su-35 has no military significance, but political preferences can be obtained from the PRC. In turn, the PRC in order to confront the United States and its satellites needs to narrow the gap in engine building.
  47. The comment was deleted.
  48. radio operator
    radio operator 25 July 2013 08: 23 New
    0
    Often, Russian equipment is made very rude, but has good performance.

    For a long time I laughed at this phrase.
    Well done, Asian, not in the eyebrow, but in the eye.
    Still, in terms of mentality, Asians are closer to us than Europeans.
  49. eplewke
    eplewke 25 July 2013 14: 23 New
    0
    the fact that they copy the engine is already a no brainer ... But how to copy ?? I think for so many years the Chinese have learned to copy well. And the question of how to integrate all this into a single whole - into a fighter, this is a task for the Chinese for at least 3-4 years ... By then, you will see and we’ll already come up with a hydrogen engine ...