Military Review

Old problems with new ships

35
When entering into the military structure of the Navy "Mistral" it is necessary to prevent the "Kiev-Novorossiysk" flaws


The question of the construction for the Russian Navy of an amphibious assault ship-docking ship (DVKD) of this type has been resolved politically. Expediency and necessity are no longer discussed. The contract entered into force a long time ago and is being executed by both parties - France and Russia.

Despite the fact that the decision to purchase two ships of this type was made under the former Minister of Defense, no one from the current leadership of the country, the Defense Ministry or USC decided to abandon their construction. On the agenda are new issues on the ship and the whole contract. In particular, attention should be paid to the training of a qualified crew and repair base, the supply of spare parts, components and weapons throughout the entire life cycle. Other important issues in the fate of Russian DVKD will be the definition of the role of such ships in the Russian Navy system, basing sites, as well as the preparation of facilities necessary for the operation.

Infrastructure "Kiev-style"

Old problems with new shipsI would not want the new DVKD repeated история the first domestic aircraft carrier type "Kiev" project 1143 "Krechet", however, as the subsequent cruisers of this type. As it is known, when “Kiev” came north to the place of permanent base, nothing was ready for its normal operation. There was no equipped berth, and the ship was anchored in the bay, where he spent the lifespan of many systems and mechanisms. Then "it turned out" that the crew of the ship and family members did not have housing. Together with the air regiment, more than 2000 people arrived from the Black Sea. There were many other costs, the solution of which could have been foreseen.

The operation, role and place in the domestic Navy of large landing ships are also unsatisfactory. This primarily relates to the first rank BDK of the Ivan Rogov type, project 1174 Rhinoceros. These ships in terms of armament and purpose were close to the Mistral type of air defense missile system. They also had aviation armament, the basis of which was Ka-29 transport and combat helicopters, which are also supposed to be based on the Mistral type of airborne missile defense. BDK type "Ivan Rogov" equipped with a docking camera for landing assault facilities. In addition, traditionally for domestic BDK ships were equipped with a ramp of complex construction for landing, equipment and cargo right on the coast from shallow water. In the 80s, domestic industry built three ships of this type. But they practically did not show themselves in any way and were quickly removed from the Navy.

As practice has shown, in particular, the latest events around Syria, the most popular amphibious equipment of the Russian Navy are the BDK projects 1171 and 775 (775М), which were and are currently the "workhorses" of our Navy. Even the new Ivan Gren of the 11711 project may be difficult for our sailors, not to mention the Mistrals.

Key events

According to official information, the contract signed in 2011 between DCNS and Rosoboronexport OJSC envisages the construction of two Mistral type FCCDs with adaptation to the needs of the Russian Navy and the provision of related logistics services at the initial stage, training of the first two Russian crews and technology transfer. 11 November of the same year, the contract entered into force. The general contractor is the DCNS group, the construction of ships is carried out by its partner, STX France, with the participation of Admiralty shipyards belonging to USC. At the request of the Russian side, the initial draft has been substantially modified.

The design of both ships was jointly developed by industrial enterprises of the two countries for Russian conditions with the aim of using Ka-29 and Ka-52K helicopters, providing navigation in winter conditions and installing onboard domestic equipment and weapons. For example, the layout of the communication system was determined jointly by Inteltech, Thales and DCNS specialists in a separate working group. On the components of the combat control system, the DCNS group actively cooperated with the Morinformsystem-Agat concern. February 1 2012 th metal cutting began, and on February 1 of the current year, the Vladivostok DVKD was laid out on the stocks. Installation on the stocks of "Sevastopol" was held recently - 18 June. The launch of the fully formed first hull is scheduled for October, and the transfer to the Russian side of the finished ship is scheduled for 2014 year. "Sevastopol" will give a year later.

In the middle of June of this year, during a visit by Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin to the shipbuilding industry enterprises, for the first time the stern portion of the Vladivostok DCVD building under construction at the Baltic Plant was shown to journalists. As builders said, this is about 40 percent of the entire hull. 26 June, the Baltic Shipyard launched it. The total length of the ship - 199 meters, width - 32. Flight deck level 27. Draft at a displacement of 22,6 thousand tons - 6,42 meters. The maximum speed with a given draft is the 18,5 node with the full power of the azipod engines (3,5 megawatts). Crew - 177 man, landing group and control group - 481. Part of the hull, built at the Baltic plant, has a length of 94 meter. Its trigger weight is 6,4 thousand tons. In addition to the body painting works, the plant partially saturated the body with pipelines and equipment. The plant has established foundations for propeller steering columns, aft and side ramps, lifting platforms for helicopters, an ammunition hoist, and a hangar hangar gate. Equipped with ballast room space, mounted towing and mooring equipment for transporting the hull in Saint-Nazaire. All the hatches and doors provided by the project were installed, electrical equipment was installed (cable trays and foundations for electrical appliances). The hull was saturated with ballast, waste and fire system pipes. The total length of the pipe is about five thousand meters.

On July 4, the act of transferring to the French side of the aft section was signed (contractor - USC, customer - STX France). The contract was initialed by the representative of the manufacturer. On the same day, the Baltic Plant officially began construction of the aft part of the second helicopter carrier. This was announced at IMDS-2013 by the general director of LLC Baltic Plant - Shipbuilding Alexander Voznesensky.

On July 6, at 18.00, a Dutch ocean tug En Avant 20, accompanied by two ships of the St. Petersburg seaport, delivered a stern to the navigation dam No. 1 of the Petersburg dam and began its journey to Saint-Nazaire. The arrival of the stern was scheduled for July 25. Next, it is attached to the nose, built in France. The partners highly appreciated the works performed by Baltiysky Zavod - Sudostroenie in the agreed time and with high quality of work, the official representative of USC, Alexey Kravchenko, reported.

To date, the main approvals for equipping ships have been completed, but the composition of the DVKD’s weapons have not yet been precisely defined.
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  1. MilaPhone
    MilaPhone 25 July 2013 15: 33 New
    18
    We must hurry with the infrastructure, otherwise the French are already starting to dock Vladivostok. belay
  2. AK-47
    AK-47 25 July 2013 15: 48 New
    12
    the new "Ivan Gren" project 11711 may be complicated for our military sailors, not to mention the "Mistrals"

    I do not believe.
    1. MilaPhone
      MilaPhone 25 July 2013 16: 05 New
      +3
      I think ours will cope.
      As previously reported:

      27/09/2012 Crew training for the first two Russian Mistral UDCs will be carried out on the first ship built. The representative of the company (DCI), Jose Lagadec, informed the ARMS-TASS correspondent at the naval base of the French Navy that the training will be conducted in French with simultaneous translation into Russian.

      However, on July 3, 2013, the General Director of OSK-Transas, Vyacheslav Komrakov, at the International Naval Salon in St. Petersburg, informed ITAR-TASS and ARMS-TASS correspondent that the issue of creating a comprehensive simulator for training crews of Mistral-type helicopter carriers not yet resolved.

      "We offered comprehensive simulators for the Mistral, but the issue has not yet been resolved," Komrakov said. He noted that the simulator for ships of this class should include "simulators for training crews of landing equipment, helicopters based on the Mistral, and combat sections of the ship itself." "Everything should work like a real ship," said the general director of OSK-Transas.

      “So far, no money has been allocated for this,” said Komrakov. “Such a simulator will cost about 3 billion rubles.” Touching on the timing of the creation of an integrated simulator for helicopter carriers of the Mistral type, if such a decision is made, Komrakov noted that "it takes two years, less will fail."
    2. Retx
      Retx 25 July 2013 16: 07 New
      14
      Ivan Gren 10 years build. Such terms give only for murder.
      1. PLO
        PLO 25 July 2013 17: 26 New
        +5
        Ivan Gren 10 years build.

        no one builds anything for free, at least 10 years, at least 20 years
        1. Retx
          Retx 25 July 2013 18: 54 New
          +3
          Those. the fact that from 2012 to 2013 nothing was done on the ship, and the transfer is now designed for 2014 is the fault of lack of money? laughing His project was redone several times + to this, the USC handshakes.
          1. PLO
            PLO 25 July 2013 19: 08 New
            +6
            Those. the fact that from 2012 to 2013 nothing was done on the ship, and the transfer is now designed for 2014 is the fault of lack of money?

            the fact that the project was redone THREE times at the request of the customer, this is the customer’s problem
            those. MO. Amber personally cannot and should not make any changes.

            If the customer does not know what he needs, the contractor should not decide for him.

            The contract for the construction of "Ivan Gren" ended in November of the outgoing year. The Ministry of Defense agreed to extend it only on the condition that Yantar finish all the work laid down in the scope of 2011 and 2012. Representatives of the plant in response stated that this was not feasible due to insufficient funding. Finally, in December, the parties reached an agreement to extend the contract. The military department has committed to pay off all debts, and in return, the shipyard should complete the construction of the ship before the fall of next year.

            2012 November 12 - The media report that the Ministry of Defense and USC are planning to revise the contract for the completion of the Ivan Gren BDK. The conclusion of a new contract with a higher cost of work is necessary because The previous contract expires. The main causes of construction delays are insufficient financing of construction, lack of readiness and irregularity of receipt of design documentation for the plant and the crisis situation of the plant in recent years. According to media reports, real financing for construction began only in the last TWO years.


            if the MO tried to crank up such a feint with DCNS ears and offered to build the Mistrals at their own expense so that they could possibly pay later, they would send them very far.
            and these so-called Akhozhopiks from Amber, have surrendered the last 3 and 4000 tons of frigates of India, and are building for the Moscow region at the same pace.
            with the will of the Moscow Region, 5000 tons, Ivan Gren would have long been in service.
            so here's the cyclist dicks
            1. Retx
              Retx 25 July 2013 22: 00 New
              0
              In this story, all the "handsome", I specifically do not put the blame on anyone, and you also do not translate arrows in one direction. Just an example, he showed how something simple can turn out to be enchantingly complex.
              1. PLO
                PLO 25 July 2013 23: 36 New
                +1
                In this story, all the "handsome", I specifically do not put the blame on anyone, and you also do not translate arrows in one direction. Just an example, he showed how something simple can turn out to be enchantingly complex.

                no need to deny you more than once in this forum expressed their point of view.
                specifically you blame Amber
                to mock the ones who built (and are building) the 11356s and call them people whom you would not even trust a bicycle .. I can’t call it anything but meanness, and I don’t respect scoundrels
                1. Retx
                  Retx 26 July 2013 00: 10 New
                  0
                  I put the blame on the managers of the USC in the execution of their work, then Amber is not to blame, there the hell is what happened before the USC. They snickered. They are beating in the chest that they will build a helicopter carrier, but no matter what, just to snatch the contract.
                  I don’t trust the bike for the same reason - we’ll subscribe for 15 thousand, and then I will throw another 5 thousand each year, as a result I will get it in 2 years for 25, instead of 15, I will also have to do it as an option.
        2. Rustam
          Rustam 25 July 2013 22: 41 New
          +6
          Here is a quote from one of the users on BMPD

          Re: This is especially evident from Ivan Gren.
          ak_12

          2013-07-21 20:10 (UTC)

          5 billion rubles have already been spent on Gren.
          Is this about 150 million dollars at the rate?
          And the ship is not finished yet.

          For example, for the same money ($ 150 million), Indonesia received FOUR Makassar-type DVDs with a displacement of 11400 tons each, two of which were built by the Daesun Shipbuilding in Busan and commissioned in 2007, and the other two were built under license by the Indonesian state PT PAL in Surabaya with a transfer to the fleet in 2009-2010. It’s even interesting for what money and in what lines on “Yantar” would a domestic analogue of the French “Mistral” be built with support only “on one’s own strength” and technology? It looks like money comparable to what the Indians paid for "Vikramâditya."

          Discussion - http://bmpd.livejournal.com/572117.html#comments


          photo- CREE Makassar (590) Dock Landing Platform (LPD) is the lead ship in four Makassar-class LPD systems from the Indonesian Navy.
          1. PLO
            PLO 25 July 2013 23: 27 New
            0
            Here is a quote from one of the users on BMPD

            funny .. deja vu
            no matter what Indonesia received for the money, it is important that where the money went.
            taking into account the fact that the project was redone 3 times, most of the money was probably spent on the processing of the project by the Nevsky Design Bureau.
            all the more, I won’t be sure that all the rest of the money went directly to Amber for the construction of the ship, and was not sawn off somewhere along the way.

            The fact remains: the Defense Ministry owed Amber and demanded to build a ship for its money, construction financing went intermittently.

            nevertheless, it’s not even a matter of price, some cyclists here claim that Amber built 5000 tons of BDK for 10 years, while in the same 6 years Amber built 3 frigates of 4000 tons each, no matter how long it takes, the simple arithmetic shows that if I wish, Amber Ivan Gren could have built 5000 tons without problems in 3 years, and taking into account the fact that during the construction of Indian frigates, Yantar built our 11356ths at the same time and at the same time, Ivan Gren rebuilt with all this load, then the nonsense of different “cyclists” about how much would we build UDC like Mistral if we are building Grena ... they look like complete hypocrisy.
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Rustam
              Rustam 26 July 2013 01: 18 New
              +1
              funny .. déjà vu - that rascal of different "cyclists"


              Of course where are we goofy Hamsters to you


              ps All fleets of the world - China, Japan, Spain, Holland, France, Ita
              liya, Korea, and even more so the United States -Have in their composition udk or build-and about protection, so these are questions for the USC, because we are building frigates and corvettes for 8 years with a displacement of 2-4 tons

              How many analogs of Mistral would we have built in 15 years?

              What is the UDC for? (In the photo of the UHD LHD-4 "Boxer" all the representatives of the typical Wasp air group are clearly visible - MV-22 convertiplanes, multi-purpose SH-60, heavy CH-53E and AV-8B aircraft.

              Then why the heck are we huge Eagles? And investing a huge dough for their repair and modernization ???? corvettes and hang out from the closet, no guys our fleet should develop and go in its development as the leading fleets of the world do (even at the first stage with a stranger help) and what to do, we don’t have time for buildup.

              About Chen for products, some shout that the Mistrals are expensive?

              here is a good post

              dmitreach  July 22, 2013 17:14 ↑ ↓


              Error number times:
              You should not compare the cost of the domestic product for FRANCE with the price tag for ANOTHER state (in this case, Russia).
              Assigned to nuber to:
              1,2 billion Euros (rounded, the civir is different, but not fundamental) - a lot of money. What can I buy on them:
              More than 60 wooden lard for the modernization of Nakhimov. (digital figure is not final, according to tradition - can be increased)
              Premier League Alexander Nevsky - 23 lard (almost like one Mistral)
              Nuclear submarine Severodvinsk (head) almost half a hundred lard (further, serial, almost a dozen times cheaper ...)
              You can launch a firecracker 14 times - Proton-M (with 56 GLONAS satellites). The last launch cost 4,4 lard.
              Or, like three pieces of Express-AM4, in August last year (it became space debris at a cost of 20 billion rubles. - Almost like one Mistral)
              Approximately 2 frigates project 1135.6 (Which for the Indians pasted. There were two contracts for three models.)
              Leasing the Nerpa-Chakra somewhere ... 650 bucks lyamov for 10 years of active use.
              The cost of the Atomic Icebreaker, with a capacity of 60 megawatts (Project 22220) is almost 40 lard.
              You can try to buy 1800 BA Lynx.
              Prices are certainly not for children ... But!
              with this money how many warships could be built
              Which ones? Type DK Dugong (Denis Davydov)? Or 1135.6?
              What to measure Mistral? (in boas, monkeys or in parrots?
              1. PLO
                PLO 26 July 2013 02: 02 New
                0
                Of course, where are we goofy Hamsters to you

                heh ..
                you me (and many others) from stubborn and other lovely epithets already written out? Well, at least thanks for that. you should pull a couple of wagons of logs out of your eyes if you want to cling to every word.


                ps All fleets of the world - China, Japan, Spain, Holland, France, Ita


                liya, Korea, and even more so the USA -Have in their composition udk or build-a

                this conversation goes in a circle.
                if you bother to read that topic again, you will understand that I have never been against ships of the UDC type, I have also never advocated a Ivan Gren type of BDK, I am against the MO policy in the shipbuilding program, in particular against the current purchase of Mistral. the only hope is that this is an echo of Serdyukovschina, and the current leadership is dealing with what it cannot cancel.


                about security, so these are questions to the USC, because they are us Frigates and corvettes built for 8 years with a displacement of 2-4 tons

                it's funny.
                You just checked in on bmpd in a post about Gorshkov.
                noticed that he was almost ready, one misfortune of AU m Polyment is not.
                can you still say that the North Shipyard disrupted their development? Those ships whose subsystems are completely ready are being built at a normal pace. The 11346th is an example of this.
                yes god bless them with new ones.
                I would not be so against the Mistrals, if only the old battleships normally modernized the same 1155s. not to mention that the construction of the 11356th, at least the same second three for the Black Sea Fleet should have been launched long ago in the BZ.


                Error number times:
                You should not compare the cost of the domestic product for FRANCE with the price tag for ANOTHER state (in this case, Russia).

                margin certainly has a place to be, that's just not one and a half times.
                1. Rustam
                  Rustam 26 July 2013 02: 29 New
                  +1
                  North shipyard disrupted their development


                  I talked about the situation with the SV - Repeat or inappropriately (how did the money go through the SDO, namely according to this project, and who squealed that in 2009 the ship would join the Navy)?

                  Golovnyak is to blame - and my post on BMPD, which is encouraging, is it ironic, well, can they finally finish by the age of 8?

                  And why in due time did SV get all the tidbits? At the same time, the BZ was strangled.

                  Let me remind you that Gorshkov’s price is 450 million Baku, I’ll tell you, we’re already catching up with the prices of adversaries, one problem Timing and Quality

                  photo (clickable) for example, the latest FREMM frigates that in the photo cost 450-480 million euros.
                  1. PLO
                    PLO 26 July 2013 02: 48 New
                    0
                    I talked about the situation with the SV - Repeat or inappropriately (how did the money go through the SDO, namely according to this project, and who squealed that in 2009 the ship would join the Navy)?

                    I have no doubt that I would have entered if all the systems were ready on time and the Moscow Region would constantly keep abreast, threatening the same courts for the failure of the contract due to the fault of the shipyard
                    I do not consider Pugachev and his effective managers (they were at the helm when grabbing orders) patriots who advocate a strong Russian fleet, their main concern was money, but that’s the charm of capitalism, the MO had all the levers to take these managers for the ass and force to fulfill contractual obligations, what we see now is a vivid example of the fact that one did not want to build faster, the other did not really want to force the first to do it.


                    (to remind you that for such a period in the USA the Newest Aircraft Carriers will launch - even less - maybe it's time to change the production technology (process)?

                    remind you that we are not the United States?
                    the technology and the production process here are somewhat secondary, even with old technologies you can remain at the level (although you can’t get into the leaders)
                    remember the same BZ and the stern of Mistral.
                    you at one time said that together with the contract production technologies will be transferred to us.
                    so tell me how the BZ built this very stern? on new machines sourced from France? or still on the old ones available? in some new large-block way? if it’s a technology and can be applied on old machines, maybe it’s not worth it to start digging? maybe it was necessary that the technical documentation was prepared for a new method of manufacturing?

                    or the same BZ riveted 6000 tons of stern without problems for a year, which means that with the same Gren Amber is tormented and remains guilty. the right word is funny and sad.

                    Let me remind you that Gorshkov’s price is 450 million Baku. I’ll tell you, we’re already catching up with the prices of adversaries. One problem. Timing and quality.

                    One trouble is the deadlines, but the deadlines depend not only on the shipyard, but also on the many contractors whose work is coordinated by the customer, i.e. MO.
                    but they couldn’t check out the quality yet. I hope to see in September, but there is something I have concerns that it will come out with a 100mm AK-100, if at all.
                    1. Rustam
                      Rustam 26 July 2013 03: 09 New
                      0
                      you at one time said that together with the contract production technologies will be transferred to us.


                      Yes, they will give (but when did I say that?) Probably before the conclusion of the contract, when the co-contractor was not determined and who was going to build the stern (BZ wasn’t mentioned for some reason then?) The first two and the other 2

                      Regarding whether they can or can’t, now from the wretched and laborious sectional construction enterprises do not get the benefits and the process is laborious - watch the video again

                      our conversation goes in a circle - you have your own point I have my own
                      1. PLO
                        PLO 26 July 2013 03: 42 New
                        0

                        Regarding whether they can or can’t, now from the wretched and laborious sectional construction enterprises do not get the benefits and the process is laborious - watch the video again

                        looked. looked attentively.
                        all talk about a certain technology transfer is garbage.
                        nothing was passed on to us. The documentation has been adapted to our equipment.
                        and it was clearly said that the modernization of construction depends solely on the machine park (which has remained the same) and crane equipment.
                        no modernization of production has yet to be expected.
            3. Retx
              Retx 26 July 2013 01: 24 New
              +1
              Quote: olp
              The fact remains: the Defense Ministry owed Amber and demanded to build a ship for its money, construction financing went intermittently.

              Oh and fact ... They pulled the deadline, prices rose, worked at a loss - as a result, the contract is over, but the ship is gone. Naturally, the customer sent them much further. But here is an interesting point: USC has overdue 30% of defense contracts (like arithmetic, imagine the scale), some of which will be transferred to foreigners (no money, ohh).
              I here attached an article from the factory newspaper (dated May 31, 2013), interesting and exciting reading, I highly recommend it!
              1. PLO
                PLO 26 July 2013 02: 14 New
                0
                Oh and fact ... They pulled the deadline, prices rose, worked at a loss - as a result, the contract is over, but the ship is gone. Naturally, the customer sent them much further.

                just a fact.
                Are you sure that everything that is happening there now is not the result of the MO agreeing to pay off the debts and therefore the work has been continued?

                where the Moscow Region is not to blame and the money at the enterprise disappears without a trace, it boldly sends the performers and sues them. A striking example of this is the first 20380th at the NEA.

                it’s only more often that the performers send MO, and the courts send MO.
                and MO can’t send anyone. that’s why the Moscow Region is silent when the frigate 22350 is overdue, because they are bent in the Moscow Region’s court, and the lawsuit will be rolled out for legal costs.
      2. AK-47
        AK-47 25 July 2013 17: 50 New
        +4
        Quote: RETX
        Ivan Gren 10 years build.

        The ship of the project 11711 was developed at OJSC Nevsk Design Bureau and is a further comprehensive and modern development of the BDK project 1171.
        BDK "Ivan Gren":
        * Will be capable of non-contact unloading of troops and equipment from the ship onto an unequipped or gently sloping coast. This will occur through the use of serial pontoon tools;
        * will be able to carry in the hold a set of serial pontoons that will then be mounted in a pontoon bridge connecting the BDK and the coast, or used as separate floating vehicles;
        * will be able to take on board about 40 different types of available and promising equipment, including heavy, each weighing up to 60 tons;
        * length will be about 120 meters, displacement of about 6 thousand tons;
        * Will possess defensive missile and artillery weapons, as well as carry four helicopters on board.
      3. Blackgrifon
        Blackgrifon 25 July 2013 20: 30 New
        0
        Quote: RETX
        Ivan Gren 10 years build. Such terms give only for murder.


        When problems with finals are always unfinished. The LC of the Imperial Fleet, the Sevastopol type, has so far been built - outdated.
      4. AVV
        AVV 26 July 2013 15: 46 New
        0
        Soon, large penalties will be paid by plants to disrupt Defense of the order !!!
    3. dmitrich
      dmitrich 26 July 2013 05: 20 New
      -1
      if it’s blunt itself doesn’t mean that everyone is like that.
    4. sv100year
      sv100year 26 July 2013 10: 34 New
      +1
      sailors, these are button players, often poorly aware of the materiel and unable to service it. at least that was 90 and 00.
  3. serge-68-68
    serge-68-68 25 July 2013 16: 20 New
    +1
    New ones may be added to the old problems - it will be interesting to look at the technical condition of the French and Russian halves after a couple of years of operation ...
  4. alabin
    alabin 25 July 2013 17: 21 New
    0
    where to get officers on these ships.
    1. sub307
      sub307 25 July 2013 18: 27 New
      0
      Expect to prepare therefore.
  5. Constantine
    Constantine 25 July 2013 17: 27 New
    +7
    Even the new "Ivan Gren" project 11711, perhaps, is complicated for our military sailors, not to mention the "Mistral".


    Strange and not intrusive, the author decided to belittle the intellectual abilities of our sailors and equipment. It turns out that on Orlan, Kuznetsovo, our nuclear submarines, which go unnoticed to the shores of the same USA, serve delitants? Maybe I didn’t understand it, but in my opinion the author went too far when he affirmatively said that, for example, Mistral for Russians is like a grenade for a monkey. It's a shame to hear that. crying
  6. Master Taiga
    Master Taiga 25 July 2013 18: 32 New
    -15
    Well, God forbid. Few people know that the first Soviet aircraft carrier was the captured “Count Zepelin”. He was captured almost completed right at the shipyards. But the Soviet admirals did not know what to do with it, moreover, they did not know what an aircraft carrier in general was - the workers 'and peasants' formation made itself felt. They thought a big ship for transporting cattle. As a result, the ship was flooded as a target.
    It was the only Reich aircraft carrier.
    1. avt
      avt 25 July 2013 19: 57 New
      10
      Quote: Taiga Master
      Few people know that the first Soviet aircraft carrier was the captured “Count Zepelin”. He was captured almost completed right at the shipyards. But the Soviet admirals did not know what to do with it, moreover, they did not know what an aircraft carrier in general was - the workers 'and peasants' formation made itself felt. They thought a big ship for transporting cattle. As a result, the ship was flooded as a target.
      It was the only Reich aircraft carrier.

      Is this vyser from an excess of knowledge? But did Mr. Evriopts know that the aircraft carrier was not the only one? What did the two lay in 1938, the second was called Peter Strasser, and what was the cruiser Seidlitz converted to an aircraft carrier? Well, if the candidate for nobility is tense, he will find out that Zeydlitz got to the place with the Tsepelin of the USSR and people who received in the USSR such a sum of knowledge according to the covenant of leaders that every cook could manage the state had an excellent inventory and came to the conclusion that it is not advisable to restore Zeidlitz and the maximum that he can do is to be a donor to the cruiser Petropavlovsk, bought before the war. They wanted to restore Tsepelin as a training aircraft carrier, but it was FLOODED BY THE REQUIREMENTS OF ALLIES, like a ship that did not participate in the division of the German fleet. So before croaking here on the site, go learn, since of course you don’t you learn, but read books, maybe the mind will increase.
      1. Constantine
        Constantine 25 July 2013 21: 15 New
        +4
        avt

        For the Master of Taiga, these explanations are an empty phrase) His brain is not intended to be "flashed". As the "BIOS" buggy flooded, so he stuck there wink

        PS About the second aircraft carrier did not know) Thanks for the info. I read)
        1. avt
          avt 25 July 2013 21: 47 New
          +3
          Quote: Constantine
          About the second aircraft carrier did not know) Thanks for the info. I read)

          Yes to health. They gathered it up to the level of the armored deck and stopped the construction on 09. Then, on 1939/28.02.1940/XNUMX, they began to dismantle it for metal {by the way, I thought that this clown was the Master of Taiga, although he was curious and guessed that he was not completed, at least he would object. laughing } And ,, Seidlitz "the Germans blew up and drowned, ours lifted and towed to Leningrad, dismantled for metal. We didn’t bother completing it either as an aircraft carrier or as a cruiser. Petropavlovsk, too, didn’t finish it. But that's not all German aircraft carriers .In 1942 the Germans took two passenger airliners - Podzdam and Gneisenau, tinkered with Podzdam before 02.43rd, but then it became not until the aircraft carriers and used it as a floating ship. The Angles got it as a military transport, but could would become an aircraft carrier ,, Elbe ".
  7. rudolff
    rudolff 25 July 2013 18: 59 New
    +8
    Konstantin, maybe the author put it wrong. Ivan Gren is not so much complicated as hemorrhoids for intended use. Landing of equipment from the ship is carried out on a previously built pontoon bridge. It is better not to imagine how this bridge will be built in the face of combat resistance. Here even the Mistrals are smiling aside. True, there are cranes on board, but this is only for unloading on the pier from the upper deck. In short, this project will not see the series. And the head is waiting for the fate of arms transport.
    1. Constantine
      Constantine 25 July 2013 21: 16 New
      +1
      Quote: rudolff
      Konstantin, maybe the author put it wrong. Ivan Gren is not so much complicated as hemorrhoids for intended use. Landing of equipment from the ship is carried out on a previously built pontoon bridge. It is better not to imagine how this bridge will be built in the face of combat resistance. Here even the Mistrals are smiling aside. True, there are cranes on board, but this is only for unloading on the pier from the upper deck. In short, this project will not see the series. And the head is waiting for the fate of arms transport.


      Is logical. Maybe I really misunderstood the author :) However, it would be nice if such articles were written without a hint of duality of concepts wink And karma and nerves will be more whole smile
  8. knn54
    knn54 25 July 2013 23: 11 New
    +2
    Two French firms received orders for the development and manufacture of explosive device components. One of the companies is developing a new generation of explosives that visually and in some other respects resembles noise absorbing and insulation coatings used on French-made ships. Another company is developing r / fuses and methods for masking their receiving antennas on ships ...
  9. NOMADE
    NOMADE 26 July 2013 05: 42 New
    0
    Quote: knn54
    Two French firms received orders for the development and manufacture of explosive device components. One of the companies is developing a new generation of explosives that visually and in some other respects resembles noise absorbing and insulation coatings used on French-made ships. Another company is developing r / fuses and methods for masking their receiving antennas on ships ...


    hmm .. interesting news .. Can you provide links to the source? In the version of the death of Novorossiysk, there is also one of the versions that a charge was mounted in its case during transmission ..
  10. pavlo007
    pavlo007 26 July 2013 12: 24 New
    0
    It would be better to have Rogov restored than to buy these barges.