Military Review

A huge "yum-yum" or Dead End Consumption

142
“And you know my modest demands: a piece of bread, a clean collar, what else does a person need?”
Arthur Conan Doyle about Sherlock Holmes



Stanislav Lem has a wonderful, perhaps even the best, his novel “Return from the Stars”. The plot is simple - astronaut Al Bragg flies home, to his native Earth, and sees a strange society formed during the time he performed his mission. More precisely, it was for him, in the conditions of space, that just ten years went by. The earth has overcome more than a century of way. And what does Bragg see? A society without wars, without passions and even without suffering. No risk. Without meaning. But in this world there is everything for maximum comfort of a person, up to the “obedient” furniture, which reads the desires of the owner. And, of course, no one here seeks anywhere, it does not break - for example, earthlings long ago proved that flights to space are meaningless and costly. “Do not fly - and never will fly. Om-Nom-nom. One huge yum-yum, ”says one of Bragg's former associates. I will not retell why all this happened - in this case the reason is not as important as the overwhelming result. At one time, that year in 1987, without knowing the content of the novel, I read a curious phrase. I cannot vouch for the accuracy of the quotation, but the meaning was: “The world of Lemov's 'Return ...' is a dystopia that depicts the dead end of civilization. This world is the antipode of communism. ”

Then, at the dawn of Perestroika, everyone was amicably looking for the so-called “socialism with a human face”, so the term “communism” still did not look like an abusive word in reviews of youth publications. So. The author of that article gave a completely correct definition - a dead end. But comfortable. Do not fly, do not create, do not risk. But chew. All work, including surgery, is performed by robots. And people just live - they eat, they travel, they make love, they bathe in the pools, they dance. Communism, however, was presented to us as an epoch of creation and constant advancement to new, beautiful goals. The meaning of communism was not at all in the fact that everyone would have three cars and one hundred pairs of shoes, but the fact that a person would be at the highest level of social and spiritual development. He will want to fly exactly! Moreover, this desire will become so natural that it is meaningless to discuss or explain. And the world painted by Lem is, just, the triumph of consumption, the triumph of the huge “yum-yum”. But then - a novel, fantasy, fiction, and what we have in life?

... A fifteen-year-old schoolgirl made her parents hysterical - she urgently needed a new version of the iPad. “With such junk, like me, only fuckers go!”, - the girl screamed hysterically, and with such a calculation that her neighbors could hear her in the dacha. But it would be okay if only teenagers behaved this way, constantly checking their personal style with the latest fashion trends. All the same thing is happening in the heads of older, sometimes even aged uncles and aunts. Yes, they do not howl and do not roll on the floor in the event of a new trend, but simply take a loan, tighten their belts more tightly (good, in fashion is slim) and - get a second job. A consumer society is a tricky model. We do not need an elementary mobile phone to call, namely - the last generation thing. We like not just a fashionable and beautiful skirt, but from a new collection of a certain brand. If you can not buy a "native" thing, then you can at least touch the legend! Fortunately, in underground passages and in the markets, you can buy any handbag with letters 'Louis Vuitton' for a couple of thousand. Rubles. The consumer society does not work according to the classical scheme of capitalism to which we are accustomed, studying the economy: "Demand creates supply." Nothing like this. It is an active, sometimes ingratiating, sometimes aggressive supply creates a response demand. A person must constantly be in nervous tension, afraid to fall behind the trends. And they change very quickly.

Relatives of my girlfriend do repairs about once every three years. They believe that “living in old stuff is not respecting yourself,” so their whole existence turned out to be subordinated to the permanent search for new toilet bowls, super modern mixers, parquet floors, curtains, sofas, ottomans ... At the same time, people get into considerable debt, live long at home, suffer significant inconvenience. But once they see a new issue of a magazine dedicated to interior design, their eyes light up eagerly, and I want to change everything again, update, throw away the disgusting “old stuff”. Well, it is very modern. The favorites of the season have time to become obsolete long before the thing is boring, annoying the owner himself. Moreover, for each category there are their own brands, their own brands - there is no possibility to buy a dress from Chanel, and does a fake insult the soul? And do not - there are lots of attractive and trendy models in cheap, but beautifully and stylishly furnished stores. Moreover, a person in the modern system needs a lot of excess. More precisely, we no longer perceive it as superfluous. It is read precisely as an urgent need.

The same luxury interior design magazines, in fact, are created so that people would like to remake their home in a modern style, according to the latest concepts. We are surrounded by massive advertising of the next gadget or, say, a new collection of bags. Basis - instinct, gregarious feeling, the desire to be at least as good. Vaska has a tablet and mine has a tablet. Although neither I nor Vaska, we do not know how to use them! Svetka has a Furla handbag and I have a Furla handbag. She has a fake and I have a fake. But we will not tell anyone, and seemingly no difference. Self-presentation in modern society is, so to speak, the most important of the arts. In a consumer society, you are what you can get. Favorite formula: "If you are so smart, then why are you so poor?". In the cult novel by Tom Wolfe "The Fires of Ambition", the main character - a typical American yuppie considers himself no less than the Lord of the Universe. Because he has everything and even a little more.

Excellent, fine, my applause, yes there is one sadness. I’m not saying that any successful yuppie, like the hero Tom Wolfe, can suddenly be at the very bottom of life. This is not the worst thing - you can get out of any pit, there would be a desire. Sadness is different and it is called depression. Of course, she was always, moreover, she amazed rich and blase handsome men, like Eugene of our Onegin. Spleen, blues and other "... the hunt for changing places." Then it was all treated by service, marriage, or, at worst, by joining the Carbonari detachment. Now depression is called the “scourge of the post-industrial era”, “the sickness of a well-fed society” and even the “AIDS of the soul”. It is easy to get infected, it is almost impossible to heal. By and large, the “unreasonable” depresnyak falls on a completely wealthy person who suddenly, for no apparent reason, finds himself in a dead end in life. As Boris Grebenshchikov sang, it is true, somewhat differently: “Their children are crazy about the fact that they have nothing more to want.”

In the risk group - economically developed countries. People since childhood, aimed at a successful career, by the age of thirty or forty come to ... the realization of their own worthlessness and helplessness. They are increasingly asking themselves the most cruel question in the world: "Why?". They no longer understand what the point is in new appointments, in salary increases, in regular purchases. It simply ceases to please them and even - to cheer up. Yappi - these energetic, smart and efficient careerists, who know how to squeeze a million from any idea, suddenly begin to realize that all these career milestones are the road to nowhere. It is in the rich countries of the West that psychologists thrive on capital for the depressions of unhappy top managers, frustrated lawyers, and wretched bosses. The consumer society requires from a person not only work for the good of society and, moreover, not the realization of a childhood dream, but a certain brand-trend conformity.

This problem worries everyone and especially Americans. No wonder there are works from time to time, like the film (and the book of the same name) “Fight Club”. Before us unfolds история a small but quite successful careerist, who, ultimately, begins a split consciousness. And his “second self” looks very symptomatic - a brutal, destructive destroyer. The authors want to show us that in the depths of a decent, respectable yappizma lies the devil of destruction, and destruction is the antithesis of creation. However, like most modern office work, devoid of constructive start.

It is simply the commission of certain actions, limited by law, contract and corporate ethics, for which the clerk receives a certain amount of money. The creative community proclaims the cult of Mondays, which, as is known, “begin on Saturday”. Remember the Soviet 1960-e? This means the cult of interesting work that fascinates you completely. What is the Strugatsky brothers book? The fact that work is more interesting than rest. In a consuming society, the cult of Friday reigns - a day when you can finally spend, prokutit, waste honestly earned, not to say - the suffered money. Or so - all year to squirming on the hated, but monetary work, then to two weeks to lie on the expensive beach, two meters from some "stars" pop.

Modern society is also very familiar with the phenomenon of shopping-mania (and even - at its extreme stage - shopaholism). This is an unbridled passion for shopping, dependence on the very process of spending money. A shopaholic cannot calmly, without awe, pass by luminous display cases, past outlets. Sales with discounts act on him magically altogether - for a week of sales, the “sick” can leave all his money in the store, collect debts and then be surprised at his strange choice for a long time - most of the things acquired during the “discount fever” then end up in the garbage disposal. What's the matter? Why does a normal-looking woman buy herself a fourth red jacket and a fifth summer handbag? The fact is that the acquisition of any new thing increases a person’s self-esteem. "I buy, therefore, I do not just exist, I am included in the social rhythm, I am not worse, but even better than many." Moreover, a person perceives a purchase as a symbol of the beginning of a new, interesting life, something like: “I’ll definitely find my love in such and such a dress”. However, all this turns out to be something like a soap bubble - after all, it is also incredibly beautiful, iridescent, light ... But in reality it is zilch.

It’s the same with things - it turns out that the joy of owning them does not last very long, even if it was a long-planned, desired purchase, for which a person denied himself literally everything. Why does the consumer excitement, encouraged by society, turn into hard mania? Because a person needs more and more purchases in order to at least feel happy for a few hours or at least soothed. Fill the vacuum, increase self-esteem, feel the fragile illusion of novelty in your life - these are the inner, subconscious motives of a shopaholic. He needs not things, but sensations. Of course, he himself, for the time being, does not think that he is trying to fight with emptiness; he does not understand that all this looks like a mythological barrel of danaids, which cannot be filled. We need other methods and methods - from religion to reading good books. But to this man must come himself.

... Feudal society struggled with rampant consumption through regulatory acts. For example, the French monarch Louis XIII, known to all from the book "The Three Musketeers", issued edicts against luxury. The King of Prussia Frederick the Great forbade the importation of expensive foreign goods that ruin the wallets of his subjects. Russian Empress Catherine II signed a decree in 1782, demanding “not to use such things as news gives the price. " The meaning of all this: a nobleman should serve, and not spend money on the satisfaction of empty vanity. They also fought against material things in the USSR - the Soviet people were taught to think that consumption should be reasonable, and it was simply indecent and stupid to increase their significance with the help of “gear”. The capitalist value system implies a completely different approach - the consumption and purchase of goods become a symbolic gesture, a “quality mark” of a person. Of course, no one forces us to do this by force. Tempting advertisements and glossy magazines are not laws that are binding.

Of course, it is very difficult - not to be included in the general pursuit of current trends, to work not where they pay more, but where your talents are revealed. It is very difficult to resist sophisticated and effective advertising. But no one except you can make a choice between the stars and the “huge yum-yum.”
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Originator:
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142 comments
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  1. serge-68-68
    serge-68-68 21 July 2013 06: 58 New
    13
    The dead ends of a consumer society are, first and foremost, the finiteness of resources that are spent on satisfying generally unimportant (or even unnecessary) needs. As, for example, it was recently reported that indium is ending - a substance necessary for the production of touch screens). Secondly, there is an imbalance between the excessively high standard of living and consumption of some (with large “garbage”) and the low standard of living and consumption of others.
    PSDisatisfaction with work, awareness of the worthlessness of one's own life, and consumer society are entities weakly connected with each other. There are enough of them in any society.
    1. Horde
      Horde 21 July 2013 08: 55 New
      10
      “The world of Lemov’s 'Return ...' is an anti-utopia depicting the impasse of civilization. This world is the antipode of communism. ”


      why atiutopia? Utopia is, like Swift.

      you need to live within your means, not to allow the consumption demon to drag yourself into the abyss of meaningless purchases, not to allow yourself and to keep loved ones.
      Not for this we live.
      For example, the virtual way of life imposed on us now, when complex computer strategy toys force not only young people, but imagine age people to engage in a meaningless, stupid virtual life inside a computer. They are divorced from reality. Such people can be impressed with anything and the truth of an infinite increase in prices, and the fact that all kinds of GMOs are good for your health (you take everything), as well as new expensive medicines, a panacea for all ills, and that WHO CARES ABOUT YOU, and even a change lifestyle from traditional to pid_rastic (because it’s fashionable). What will happen next with humanity? What will it all look like? it’s even scary to imagine ...
      1. Darn
        Darn 21 July 2013 09: 47 New
        15
        computer toys-strategies force not only young people, but imagine people aged to engage in a meaningless, stupid virtual life inside a computer. They are divorced from reality.

        Hello Horde.
        And here lies the hook of useless consumption. After all, in order for the computer to drag new games, you need to upgrade the hardware. At least once a year. Something needs to be changed, processor or video card.

        P.S. I am looking at modern advances in computers. Each time I ask one question. As Soviet scientists on weak computers (they can also be called computers with a large heavy, most likely programmed calculators) were able to launch a person into space. Maybe we are not using computers correctly?
        1. Joker
          Joker 21 July 2013 11: 52 New
          +4
          New games need iron upgrades. At least once a year. Something needs to be changed, the processor or video card.

          Hmm, my 4 year has gone, everything works, I'm not going to change anything, I bought in the average configuration.
          1. Darn
            Darn 21 July 2013 12: 22 New
            +2
            Hmm, my 4th year went, everything works, I'm not going to change anything


            Hello joker
            Lucky. So I picked up a computer for the programs I needed. He is also very pleased and there is no need to buy modern iron yet.
            1. Revolver
              Revolver 21 July 2013 21: 48 New
              +1
              Quote: Here is a pancake
              So I picked up a computer for the programs I needed. He is also very pleased and there is no need to buy modern iron yet.

              The notorious Microsoft company regularly ceases to support old programs, including Windows. Moreover, I suspect, in one of the latest WinXP updates, they planted something such that all XP machines started to slow down, and not just me. I personally did not give up all the prettiness of Windows 7, XP was quite fine, but I had to switch to 7. And since the Windows 7 hardware did not pull, I had to change everything - 3 laptops, 2 desktops. While you can use 7, I personally am not going to switch to 8, which means that I can also change the iron.
              And I have a phone - you can laugh - in 2008, not smart, but a regular flip-phone. If I need to watch something on the network, then I want to have at least a 15-inch laptop screen, and preferably 24 desktops. To look at pages on a phone or even a tablet with a truncated screen, I consider it a particularly sophisticated form of masochism; However, if anyone likes their business.
              PS I am not fond of games, but I have very serious programs that I need to work. Type SQL Server.
          2. Evgeniy46
            Evgeniy46 21 July 2013 12: 40 New
            +2
            similarly, only the third year is running out. And an inexpensive smartphone two years ago (Nokia 5228)
            1. R'RёS,R ° F "RёR№
              R'RёS,R ° F "RёR№ 21 July 2013 15: 05 New
              11
              My laptop is inexpensive. Yes, I need to go on the Internet and read a book. And why the hell is the super-duper new, if the old one works well?! And the phone costs 750 rubles. It rings, sends SMS. What else is needed from it ... I went to a home loan, it took 10 thousand to buy a satellite TV. So take at least 50 thousand! And they are surprised that I DO NOT need so much. How do they give it?! Well, I’m not chasing news. I see not a modern person laughing "Born in USSR"
          3. Babon
            Babon 21 July 2013 18: 56 New
            +4
            Well, this is a personal matter for everyone. Every year a friend of mine changes the value of the jedeno for the amount of 2000-3000 cu Accordingly, he sells his "old" iron for half the price. Therefore, I also have a pretty powerful comp. But for what I do not quite understand such powers, because my 800W power supply consumes electricity quite steeply.
        2. Avenger711
          Avenger711 21 July 2013 15: 01 New
          +1
          I haven’t needed it for a long time, prefixes and problems of reducing the technical process with increasing frequencies have brought to a standstill.
        3. Avenger711
          Avenger711 21 July 2013 15: 05 New
          +1
          Then the USSR was in the lead. This time. Even a complicated calculation can be done even if the launch is expected only after a year. These are two. The programs themselves are not very complicated there, if you solve diffurs, then a miscalculation in a million points is algorithmically no different from a miscalculation in 4, the only question is memory consumption. These are three.
          1. dustycat
            dustycat 21 July 2013 21: 58 New
            +2
            Quote: Avenger711
            Then the USSR was in the lead. This time. Even a complicated calculation can be done even if the launch is expected only after a year. These are two. The programs themselves are not very complicated there, if you solve diffurs, then a miscalculation in a million points is algorithmically no different from a miscalculation in 4, the only question is memory consumption. These are three.

            Calculation can be possible for a day.
            And to build a dynamic picture of real time?
            The homeland of hardware video accelerators is the USSR.
            On DVK-3M2 there was a KTsGD02 board that had hardware graphic primitives (krgui, polygons, lines, curves, fill with color).
            The KTsGD02 analogue was not part of the PiDiPi11 system. This is a Soviet invention. It was bus compatible with the BESM system.
            Moreover, this all worked faster than on the later appeared PMI PiSi 286.
        4. Poppy
          Poppy 22 July 2013 11: 46 New
          +1
          man into space launched on a slide rule and Kuhlmann
      2. huut
        huut 21 July 2013 11: 08 New
        10
        Quote: Horde
        They are divorced from reality. Such people can be impressed with anything and the truth of an infinite price increase, and the fact that all sorts of GMOs are good for health


        I’m familiar with a couple of similar personalities - lived cynics, they’ll inspire horseradish. So your statement is speculative.

        Quote: Horde
        engage in meaningless-stupid virtual life inside a computer


        Read the book, too, it turns out, do senseless-numbing virtual life inside a stack of paper. Games are leisure activities, and like books or movies they are bad, good, and so on.
        1. S_mirnov
          S_mirnov 21 July 2013 11: 35 New
          21
          “The drawback of the Soviet education system was the attempt to shape the person who created it, and now the challenge is to nurture a consumer who can skillfully use the results of the creativity of others.” - these are the words of the Minister of Education of our country! But nobody cares ... We continue to chew on the hay.
          http://demotivation.me/wxx7ukq1nmb7pic.html#.Ueub06yaTlc
          1. DEMENTIY
            DEMENTIY 21 July 2013 13: 01 New
            +9
            S_mirnov (2)

            "The drawback of the Soviet education system was the attempt to shape a human creator, and now the challenge is to nurture a consumer who can skillfully use the results of the creativity of others."
            1. dmitreach
              dmitreach 21 July 2013 20: 36 New
              +1
              http://dic.academic.ru/film.nsf/8415/%D0%9A%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80+%D0%BF

              %D0%BE+%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B3%D0%B0%D0%BC.
              Bonfire on Thursdays.
              Watch the second part, from the second minute, the fortieth second. "The FARCERS are to blame for everything." (Fathers of the iPhone generation)
          2. aksakal
            aksakal 21 July 2013 23: 35 New
            +3
            Quote: S_mirnov
            “The drawback of the Soviet education system was the attempt to shape the person who created it, and now the challenge is to nurture a consumer who can skillfully use the results of the creativity of others.” - these are the words of the Minister of Education of our country! But nobody cares ... We continue to chew on the hay.
            - this is a real plus! When I read Sabzh, these words of the Minister of your education were recalled. Moreover, he stated this as if it had been decided for a long time ago that we are leading this people into a consumer society, and all state institutions, including the education system, are reshaping things along the way. Who decided? Really Putin? If Putin, then we remove Putin. But I think that Putin is more occupied with grandmaster games on geopolitical topics, he has been sick with this for a long time ... But he plays well, and let him play. But in the internal field he insofar as only maintain stability.
            We also had a minister of social security and labor. When announced the increase in the retirement age for women, women asked him "why?" He couldn’t find anything better to answer, only like this: "Because, then ... Because!" Well, the people dropped him - at every opportunity he threw eggs and other goodies. He had to resign. It’s good for your Minister of Education to leave like that. For leading the people gathered where the people do not want to. Yes, twenty-five years ago, the people, worn out by a deficit even on the most utilitarian things, wanted to take some time, so what now? Supermarkets have appeared, this is enough, you don’t need to take people to places where they don’t want to at all, all the more under this business to destroy the approved state institutions [media = http: // http: //www.youtube.com/watch? V = 00L0jmzCp3k]
        2. Darn
          Darn 21 July 2013 12: 00 New
          +3
          Reading this book, too, turns out to engage in a meaningless-stupid virtual life inside a stack of paper.

          Hello Huut.
          At the expense of books, I do not agree with you. If it’s not difficult, look for a book by N. A. Rubakin. "How to engage in self-education" and "Among the books." And you will understand that reading is not a meaningless time spent.
          1. NOBODY EXCEPT US
            NOBODY EXCEPT US 21 July 2013 23: 00 New
            +1
            Here Damn .... I think that he had a slightly different meaning when you read a book you create your own world that often does not coincide with the movie adaptation of the book, but in general I use the computer mainly for cognition, practically do not sit on networks, although I started a lot of them at the beginning ..... so I put a minus to the article, if you follow the logic of the author, then you need to take the scores or the arithmometer again ... and start a horse instead of a car .....
        3. dustycat
          dustycat 21 July 2013 21: 47 New
          +1
          Quote: huut

          I’m familiar with a couple of similar personalities - lived cynics, they’ll inspire horseradish. So your statement is speculative.


          You just don’t know how to cook them.
          Burnt cynic is easier to manage than a light switch.
        4. rolik
          rolik 22 July 2013 00: 09 New
          +2
          Quote: huut
          Reading this book, too, turns out to engage in a meaningless-stupid virtual life inside a stack of paper. Games are leisure activities, and like books or movies they are bad, good, and so on.

          Reading a book, first of all, we train the brain. His imaginative and linear thinking. And also, it’s just nice to sit down quietly and read an interesting book. Although I sometimes use audio books. Downloaded to mp3, put on headphones and listen)))))
    2. Nevsky
      Nevsky 21 July 2013 09: 10 New
      +2
      Oh times, about morals! sad

      How to steal two laptops:



      Crush in Russia on the sale of laptops !!



      Pavel Durov in St. Petersburg throws money into the crowd and laughs !!!



      A Chinese teenager sold a kidney for a tablet and an iPhone:

    3. Rus2012
      Rus2012 21 July 2013 09: 36 New
      +9
      Quote: serge-68-68
      Dead ends of a consumer society is primarily the finiteness of resources

      nevertheless, the apologists of the "golden billion" believe that there is a SOLUTION -
      to limit population, including in such ways as-
      -the destruction of most (wars, diseases caused ...)
      - birth control (LGBT, loss of traditional family values, Faith ...)
      - seizure of all resources by the "global world government"

      A lot of all this we see with our own eyes ...
      1. Ascetic
        Ascetic 21 July 2013 15: 08 New
        10
        Quote: Rus2012
        -the destruction of most (wars, diseases caused ...)
        - birth control (LGBT, loss of traditional family values, Faith ...)
        - seizure of all resources by the "global world government"


        I would add that the reason why they want to reduce the population is just preservation of the consumer societywhich in itself in its structure doomed to degeneration.For the very structure of a consumer society actually deprives a person of the opportunity to start a large family.
        With the transition to "modern", that is, to industrial society, on the one hand, production grows and develops, and it becomes possible to feed oneself outside the "large production family", working for hire at the factory or, later, in the office and office. On the other hand, the requirements for comfort and standard of living are increasing, and then for its quality. And the benefits earned are not quite enough to feed a large number of children and provide their life already at the level that you prefer.
        From here today, the more highly developed countries are and the deeper they are on the hook of the ideology of consumption and uncontrolled credit consumption of a profitable global financial backstage, the less they have a family and fertility. This means that Western society degenerates by itself, plus the world elite contributes to this by those methods that you specifically brought.
        1. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 21 July 2013 16: 40 New
          +6
          Quote: Ascetic
          the preservation of precisely the consumer society, which in itself, by its structure, is doomed to degeneration

          I agree to all 250% and more ...
          1.Consumer society it is possible and NEEDED TO CONTRA building society.
          2. It is difficult, but it is possible to resist, at the individual level, such "mortal sins" as greed, envy, gluttony, etc. And it’s not difficult at all, after that, not to worry about the fact that your “piece of bread in your hand and the roof over your head” is worse than that of your “enriched” neighbor.
          1. aksakal
            aksakal 21 July 2013 23: 40 New
            +2
            Quote: stalkerwalker
            A consumer society can and NEED TO OPPOSE a creation society.
            - I agree. I have only a question - but to build only with my head and hands? And then I already somehow “built” the three, but here not with my head and not with my hands. Is such "building" in your society quoted? How high laughing
        2. aksakal
          aksakal 21 July 2013 23: 55 New
          +1
          Quote: Ascetic
          I would add that the reason why they want to reduce the population is precisely the preservation of the consumer society, which in itself, by its structure, is doomed to degeneration, because the very structure of the consumer society actually makes it impossible for a person to start a large family.
          With the transition to "modern", that is, to industrial society, on the one hand, production grows and develops, and it becomes possible to feed oneself outside the "large production family", working for hire at the factory or, later, in the office and office. On the other hand, the requirements for comfort and standard of living are increasing, and then for its quality.
          - brilliantly, Ascetic. I agree. Here are just an incomprehensible problem with those “wanting to reduce the population” - why reduce it if the structure itself (and here I confirm you often have such “half-flowers” ​​- you can’t call them empty flowers, one nurtured child is present - to communicate) does it reduce the population? Why waste resources on this, stir up wars when the ending will still be the same?
          By the way, I grabbed the minuses when I brought the patient’s article “comfort and quality of life”, according to the subject I was talking about demography, I brought it up, that the Russian media actually print a lot of this, but really little is printed for large families. They put minuses, I still don’t understand, here the forum users support her, this patient?
          Well, in the end - nothing improves life, even in terms of comfort and quality, like communicating with a small butusik, who has been stubbornly learning to walk for the second day. Do not care for him constant falling to the fifth point, he whimpers, but still gets up and tries. Guys, this is super! What about the new iPhone? Yes, burn it with a blue flame, a despicable piece of plastic and silicon, shoved for my shit - already bought such things, joys there for half an hour, no more. And even when what was conceived at work is very successfully embodied, as planned - also a buzz.
      2. dustycat
        dustycat 21 July 2013 21: 42 New
        0
        Quote: Rus2012
        nevertheless, the apologists of the "golden billion" believe that there is a SOLUTION -
        limit population

        Which fundamentally contradicts the theory of consumption - reducing consumers - we reduce producers.
    4. xetai9977
      xetai9977 21 July 2013 09: 46 New
      15
      Developed countries have already come to “yum-yum.” Previously, people saw the meaning of life in work with the goal of earning ON BREAD, had certain moral principles, raised children, raising them in accordance with moral and ethical traditions. People strove for a better life, they were driven by a spirit of innovation, honored for the honor of being useful to society, bringing glory to their country, their family, gaining the respect of society. And modern societies live by the principle of achieving fame ANYWHERE, and fame will come down in a negative sense. They already want to earn (preferably dishonestly) villas, expensive foreign cars, bank accounts with at least 6 zeros, do not want to give birth to children (they came up with the word " start ", just like a dog), considering them a burden to enjoy life, do not want to work physically, considering it humiliating (representatives of the 3rd world work there), they do not have enough time to raise their first child (yes and no desires). And this child considers parents “ancestors”, backward and does not show them any respect. The normal language disappeared, “slang” appeared and triumphantly walks. Sacks, rudeness, vulgarity are pouring from screens and monitors onto underdeveloped brains. Heroes of the time are prostitutes, blue, corrupt and bandits. So “advanced” nations degenerate and make way for “barbarians” ". In history, it was already - Ancient Rome.
      1. Dober
        Dober 21 July 2013 15: 44 New
        -2
        Quote: xetai9977
        In history, it was already - Ancient Rome.

        This is among many. A historically defined “beginning” is the Inca and Aztec Civilizations, then Rome and Macedonia, Egypt and Mizraim, Byzantium and the Khazar Khanate, then the Persian Empire, Ottomans, followed by the colonization of the Spaniards, Portuguese, French and British. From the "Weimar Republic" moved to a "new level". An attempt to embody a new empire on the territory of Russia in 1917. Her in the 91st and led to the "need for greater consumption." The result is deplorable, but natural.
        An opportunity to ponder the next "builders" of empires, for example, those who wish to "revive the USSR."
        The nation is PRIMARY, the state is SECONDARY.
        The rule is proved regardless of nationality. Any "international" leads to a mixture of mentalities and erosion of spiritual and human values. Hence the desire to "wipe out" at all costs both over their fellow tribesmen and to fall into the "upper echelon" of empire management.
    5. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 21 July 2013 10: 04 New
      +4
      Quote: serge-68-68
      The dead ends of a consumer society are, first and foremost, the finiteness of resources that are spent on satisfying generally unimportant (or even unnecessary) needs.

      Nobody thinks about this global problem in a consumer society. The main problem is the substitution of the highest moral human values, the values ​​of the material plane. When people cannot "afford" a child, because there is supposedly nothing to raise them for, they easily take a loan to buy a status item.
    6. The comment was deleted.
      1. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 21 July 2013 11: 15 New
        +8
        Quote: honest Jew
        about politics and bitovuhu !!!

        The politics and general development of mankind is the foundation of wars.
      2. aviamed90
        aviamed90 21 July 2013 14: 01 New
        +3
        honest jew

        Do you deny the problem?
        And what do you think is the difference between the last model of a computer or handbag and the penultimate one?
      3. andreitk20
        andreitk20 21 July 2013 15: 25 New
        +4
        there is a problem and it needs to be discussed, as young people fixated on new products do not see what is going on around. By the way, this also applies to Jewish youth !!!!!
        1. rereture
          rereture 21 July 2013 15: 35 New
          +1
          It’s one thing when you make money for a novelty yourself, another thing when you shake your mom and folder. It’s one thing when you need to (work, study), it’s another thing when a thing becomes a status symbol. For example iphone.
    7. Orik
      Orik 21 July 2013 11: 48 New
      +4
      no The dead end begins in the shower, and only then there are not enough resources. The womb is insatiable, no matter how little you give. A person needs very little to be happy and there will be enough resources for everyone.
  2. komsomolets
    komsomolets 21 July 2013 06: 59 New
    11
    “Seductive advertising and glossy magazines are not laws that are generally binding.” These weapons are cooler than gunshots, definitely.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 21 July 2013 07: 17 New
      19
      Quote: komsomolets
      "This weapon is cooler than a gun, definitely.

      This weapon doesn’t work for everyone in our country. As the author says, I want everything new, everything fashionable - a skirt. Fashionable clothes. Aipad or even the devil knows what.
      I will say for myself when cell phones appeared, clothes and everything else rushed to take. Now it’s just stupidly tired of all this, I’ve got a new smart phone or an old button on my drum. The main thing is to call. Spit on clothes, went bought and are not looking for fashionable or branded, the main thing that would be convenient. Just the constant pursuit of fashion over time bothers. The exception is the car, well, quality rather plays the role here, the newer the car, the more reliable it is. The author rather wrote about young people and our creams such as Zverev and Kirkorov, but those show-offs twist. Ordinary people depart from this.
      1. baskoy
        baskoy 21 July 2013 08: 57 New
        12
        "The common people are moving away from this."
        I completely agree! An interesting observation: in Soviet times, the authorities were "afraid" of chewing gum (such as the fact that people would turn into a ruminant herd, and this, somehow, is not cultural), now there are shops, stalls littered with it and what, do we observe crowds of constantly chewing? In my city I did not notice, much more often on the sidewalk you will see "native" husk from sunflower seeds than a sticking gum. And this consumer "husk" will gradually fly around!
      2. Hleb
        Hleb 21 July 2013 09: 33 New
        11
        I want everything new, everything fashionable
        just arrived from the mall there is no words. maybe of course I have a demanding approach to clothes, but I really can’t find myself what I like. I went around a bunch of jeans stores I can’t choose. This is the color, then the shiny inserts and most importantly tailoring. Especially with a low waist) ) in sports is simpler, but it’s also a problem to find classics. Whether the Chinese sew for themselves, or the tastes of young people today ... like parrots
        this is my paradox)
        1. Orik
          Orik 21 July 2013 11: 55 New
          +4
          Yes, now it’s not easy for a normal peasant to buy a thing. That color, then the size, most stores offer jacket sizes up to 54 and that's it.
          1. Sewer
            Sewer 21 July 2013 12: 49 New
            +3
            Because they are sewn for everyones!
      3. Rus2012
        Rus2012 21 July 2013 09: 50 New
        11
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        The exception is the car, well, quality rather plays the role here, the newer the car, the more reliable it is. The author rather wrote about young people and our creams such as Zverev and Kirkorov, but those show-offs twist. Ordinary people depart from this.

        “An exception is the car”, alas, dear colleague, and MRCT (marketers) got here, after 1998, they took control of the global auto industry. Previously, they were in charge of the ENGINEERS, for whom the first place was - quality, resource, reliability, efficiency. And now - pathos, one-time use, reducing the resource to the warranty period, maintainability ...
        They even try to hold hands even before aviation. I have already written many times - before, aircraft in the west flew to 25 years with 4-5 capitals, after them, after 10 years of leasing, they “cram” them into second-rate (RF, PRC) third-rate (Africa-Asia) countries ...
        IPads-iPhones - the service life was reduced to the resource of non-removable batteries (1-2year). Everything is reduced to the level of "one-time" -non-repairable ...
      4. andreitk20
        andreitk20 21 July 2013 15: 31 New
        +1
        Maybe the people departed faster, if not for the every-minute advertisement and powdered "Stars", nevertheless in some heads it settles and gives its fruits.
      5. fzr1000
        fzr1000 21 July 2013 16: 02 New
        +3
        As early as 10 years, the rule "the newer the more reliable" does not apply to machines. The transition to turbocharged engines due to the environment, to 7-8 speed automatic gearboxes, DSGs and CVTs (I don’t know all this for what, if only for money), stuffing with electronics, simplification and lightening of suspensions does not make cars more reliable. And prices are only rising. They will leave the old “iron” (well, only the engine compression ratio will be raised so that not 3 forces are removed from 200-liter, but 270, to the detriment of the resource, doesn’t have to drive so much anyway), the box will be reflashed, so that a bunch of “badly needed” gadgets will also be sorted out faster vtyuhayut-screens, bluetooth, self-parking, cameras, DVDs, 18-20 'wheels how can I ride without it now. Yes, they will rip off a lot of money for all this, although a smartphone that can do all this? while it costs 15 thousand, and not 60-70 as in a car.
        The standard of quality for me is from the premium class MV W124,126, and from simpler, any "Japanese" (Toyota, Mazda, Honda, Subaru) remained in oblivion.
        So I strongly disagree with you.
      6. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker 21 July 2013 16: 46 New
        +4
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        The exception is the car, well, quality rather plays the role here, the newer the car, the more reliable it is

        For men, a car is a continuation of their own ego. And we suffer greatly when it’s impossible to “do it our own way” (expensive wife, a bucket of bolts, friends, not enough money in the bank account). laughing
        1. dustycat
          dustycat 21 July 2013 21: 38 New
          +3
          Quote: stalkerwalker

          For men, a car is a continuation of their own ego. And we suffer greatly when it’s impossible to “do it our own way” (expensive wife, a bucket of bolts, friends, not enough money in the bank account). laughing


          I do not care.
          I have a UAZ 1989gv.
          I can attach to it everything that the technical regulation will allow.
          Already done. Headlights turn on when I start the engine. Soundproofing the cabin. Comfortable chairs. Installed radio Blaupunkt. Microprocessor ignition. Electrical package. Homemade kengurin. The signaling. Navigation and diagnostic system on the handheld DellAxim X5. Shock absorbers are domestic. Next in line are the side window frames with sliding windows and smart speakers from a flat-screen TV. Xenon headlights? I don’t know .. Maybe LED. How to get cheaper.

          The second car NIVA 2004 release.
          Power package (not classified), power windows (domestic), modern receiver (Chinese), alarm (domestic from China - mudflow). Disks are Ustkat. Rubber - KamaFlame. In terms of microprocessor ignition, and can injection (domestic). Shock absorbers (domestic).

          Maybe I will change the UAZ to a Chinese jeep or UAZ again - if they are forced to pay taxes.
          They offer to buy Toyota Landkruzer - they say that it’s not the rank of chief engineer to ride a scoop - but why? After three years, operating costs will be comparable in price to the new UAZ.
      7. Crocodile
        Crocodile 22 July 2013 01: 21 New
        +3
        "The common people are moving away from this."
        ... Probably there are no children who, from the simplicity of their souls, come from school and, with burning eyes, talk about Masha’s new phone model ...
        Consumers have already been brought up !!!
        So the program has already been completed - are parents ahead of the new phone, or do you want your child to be an outcast in the classroom?
    2. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 21 July 2013 15: 48 New
      +6
      The Americans put the film "Johnson Family" about consumer advertising. Who did not look, look. The reviews are different, but the plot is one - to advertise not only goods, but also a way of life, and this is addictive .... to the loop.
  3. igordok
    igordok 21 July 2013 07: 19 New
    11
    Thank you for the article. Pretty rarely, an article is read in its entirety, in one breath.
    1. Dober
      Dober 21 July 2013 16: 16 New
      +2
      Quote: igordok
      the article is read in full, in one go.

      Here I propose to pay attention to other articles by Margarita.

      http://www.zavtra.ru/authors/user/3162/articles/

      The spread is very large. From the "household" to politics.
  4. Valery Neonov
    Valery Neonov 21 July 2013 07: 20 New
    +7
    "They don’t fly, they don’t do it, they don’t risk it. But they chew."- sell and buy, not good. Here it is a society with a "problem" how to sell, to whom to "bet" ...
    1. Rus2012
      Rus2012 21 July 2013 09: 57 New
      +3
      Quote: Valery Neon
      Here it is a society with a "problem" how to sell, to whom to "vparit" ...

      MRCT now has the slogan: "DEVELOP NEEDS and satisfy him" ...
      Previously (5 years ago) it was - "FIND a need and satisfy ...".
      The difference is measurable, and, all the time, everyone is eager to bet ON CREDIT. And this is the theft of resources from the FUTURE! For today's tsatska cartoons ...
  5. Egoza
    Egoza 21 July 2013 07: 32 New
    16
    Firstly, much depends on education. Give the same child a specific setting: “Everything that is urgently advertised on TV, especially foreign, is MUCH! They need to sell them more expensive, we’ll get our money out, and they’re trying. But you can buy the same thing from us much cheaper. (And give an example. And you can give a lot of examples) "And this installation works very well.
    Secondly, and this is the main thing. Until the system and the state’s policy of developing and ensuring the welfare of the PEOPLE, and not the "elite," change, they will chase "for fashion." Change priorities at the state level, make LABOR, DREAM, ROMANTIC, HONESTY, CREATIVITY respected ... and no advertising can resist them.
    1. Dober
      Dober 21 July 2013 16: 28 New
      +3
      Quote: Egoza
      Firstly, much depends on education. Give the same child a specific setting: "Everything that is urgently advertised on TV, especially foreign, is MUCH!

      We constantly talk about this, that “GOOD does not need advertising”, but children are children and in order to understand the world through the perception of information. And more often they comprehend it in comparison. In comparison with peers, neighbors, etc. Unfortunately, but you have to make concessions in the purchase of one or another. We give comparisons and reasonable arguments as a priority in purchases.
      For example. Just recently I gave my computer (3 years of assembly) to the older one, and I assembled (not completely) a new one with a reserve for the future, worth 1.800USD.
      And the TV was bought 10 years ago, now it costs nothing. It works and okay. News will go watch.

      Quote: Egoza
      Change priorities at the state level, make LABOR, DREAM, ROMANTIC, HONESTY, CREATIVITY respected ... and no advertising can resist them.

      This is contrary to the "purposes" of this government. They will not do this. Not for that purpose, to abandon such a consumer market as the CIS.
  6. borisjdin1957
    borisjdin1957 21 July 2013 07: 39 New
    +9
    from the Don.
    A good article to the author +. I believe that for the most part, people understood that they need to live within their means. Advertising, almost, does not touch anyone, as it was 10-15 years ago. Long loans are almost never taken. Fear of losing your job and having a head office pain-rejection of the loan! Although there are enough of all !!!
    1. lesnik340
      lesnik340 21 July 2013 12: 36 New
      +1
      Excuse me, what kind of powder do you use?
      1. Hleb
        Hleb 21 July 2013 18: 30 New
        +3
        I read about the powder. I remembered. We went to buy a washing machine. Before that, the indesite was taken, it works without problems for 7-8 years. Well, we think we’ll take the same, but the seller friend says no, it’s better not to return a lot. Well, I’m not saying I’m complaining? Well, so you say Italian was taken, but these are Lipetsk (if I don’t confuse) and the Samsung, then all the Chinese were ... well, the question is. Why would I take the Italian? As a result, they supported the Ukrainian manufacturer and bought Ariston. The young will go ( how much ..)
      2. dustycat
        dustycat 21 July 2013 21: 17 New
        +1
        The cheapest I find.
        All imported powder in Russia was produced in Russia using the same equipment on which Gloss was once produced. (All these productions were bought through front and directly proctorand gembels at the beginning of privatization).
        And I’m buying workwear at the store.
        50kg bag.
        It also has a P&G label.
  7. Enot-poloskun
    Enot-poloskun 21 July 2013 08: 03 New
    +7
    Excellent article!

    After it, you need to stir up the poll: "And what are your values?". I mean, who is the consumer and who is the creator.

    And then - look at Europe: snickering. And paid - in loans. Any market decline, economic crisis - immediately the little man has his own financial storm.

    Question: Is it possible to make a titan out of a little man who is not afraid of difficulties? Can. Do you need to?

    It seems to me that, unfortunately, the consumer society is destroyed only by a large-scale crisis leading to a change in values.

    PS I personally do not chase new gadgets and bags. What for these unnecessary show-offs and waste of money? But sometimes, especially when I’m going to the Sapsan, I look around and see at some “white-collar” 2 (two) iPhones, I think - why are they torturing themselves like that?
  8. KazaK Bo
    KazaK Bo 21 July 2013 08: 21 New
    +7
    should serve, and not spend money on the satisfaction of empty vanity. ]

    Alas! This has already been forgotten .... By vanity - this is the horse on which the Western "consumer society" entered our consciousness and turned many of us from individuals thinking to consumers ... THIS HAS THE RESOLUTION OF THE MAIN OBJECTIVE - TO KNOW OUR CONSCIOUSNESS PEOPLE'S PATRIOTISM AND Loyalty to the HOMELAND. It seems nice words ... but it is! Now, for a beautiful rag or apartment, not only the soul is sold ... like Dr. FAUST!
    That's just why the WEST began to hush up its cannibalistic idea of ​​the "golden billion." After all, they did not refuse her! It lies at the heart of their theory of the "American way of life," which presents us as a role model. Previously, they presented it with various sauce ... and then they realized that the people of the world are beginning to understand the essence of this idea and this can lead to ... BUT after all, the echoes of the idea of ​​the “golden billion” sound even now. The essence of this idea is simple - We must live like AMER! And they, as presented by statistics, but, alas, do not indicate where it comes from, consume 40% of the world's goods produced, with about or about 400 million people .... 60% of the world gross product for 6,5 billion people of the Earth remains. Not enough ... to lead an "American way of life." Therefore, another 600 million should remain for such a standard of living by 60% ... and the rest either "at a loss" or in the position of slaves with a minimum level of maintenance ... without any benefits - stew, bunks to sleep, sometimes a woman for the night, work. .. again a stew .. etc ... Hence the repeated wishes to us, starting with the EBN board, that 30-40 million people should remain in RUSSIA. ... And this was wished to us at the highest level ... right up to the mouth of the US Secretary of State! Russia does not fit into the life plans of the "golden billion"! But our liberals continue to lead us confidently towards this! I don’t know about you, but I really don’t want to follow this path ... and there isn’t much of an agility to run into the "golden billion" of a consumer society! I want to remain a thinking person!
  9. Garrin
    Garrin 21 July 2013 08: 21 New
    +4
    At the beginning of the article, I would cite the example of Kadavra from "The Monday begins on Saturday" by the Strugatsky. The last instance is the ideal consumer (the one that was tested at the test site). How it all ended, I hope everyone remembers perfectly.
    But in general I liked the article.
  10. Consul-t
    Consul-t 21 July 2013 08: 26 New
    +7
    Ponte Ponte, but all the Ponte.
    Great joy when you do not need anything, and that is enough for you ...
  11. a
    a 21 July 2013 08: 43 New
    -10
    yes garbage, this article. I can sketch a dozen of such articles. the main problem of the article is the lack of any intelligible alternative. Well, what does the author suggest? here to take and just give up consumption? and what in return? Well, at least something serious author offers in return? or his main task is simply to rob everything .. and leave the readers themselves to rake the dumped on them? but in my opinion the author dumped his complexes, failures, inability on readers. I think the author himself uses consumerism, as far as the wallet allows it. and the wallet probably doesn’t allow much.
    humanity has only one way to get out of the main road of consumption - everyone immediately get a haircut as a monk / nun. or live to the end of the resource base.
    By the way, in Russia there is no consumer society. we, in some small part of society, have only the desire to keep up, to be fashionable. but no more, it is not a consumer society.
    1. omsbon
      omsbon 21 July 2013 09: 04 New
      10
      Quote: uno
      yes garbage, this article. I can sketch a dozen of such articles.

      We look forward to, sir, at least one!
      1. a
        a 21 July 2013 11: 48 New
        -10
        Yes, really not a problem. you take any situation and string your fantasies on it. so anyone can .. but here is something alternative to offer, here the mind is needed, and not just a criticistic fuse.
        I am not in the format here. there is exclusively a pro-communist audience, which mourns the demise of the USSR every day.
        1. grafrozow
          grafrozow 21 July 2013 12: 26 New
          +5
          We don’t need everyone to fit in one comb, there are many red ones, but this is not a reason to be upset. Time will judge us.
          Quote: uno
          I am not in the format here. there is exclusively a pro-communist audience, which mourns the demise of the USSR every day.

          It’s very sad, but I like the site, everyone has their own opinion, and whether you like it or not is a matter of taste. Or, for you, the main thing is how many advantages they put? -Everything comes and goes, and only the music is eternal. Smile. drinks wink
          1. a
            a 21 July 2013 12: 31 New
            +5
            Quote: grafrozow
            It’s very sad, but I like the site, everyone has their own opinion, and whether you like it or not is a matter of taste. Or, for you, the main thing is how many pluses they put? -Everything comes and goes, and only music is eternal.


            I'm actually a person with a very great sense of humor :) I never feel sad. I also like the site, I read about weapons, I read about history. but most of the articles are one-sided in my opinion.
            pluses in general for me on the drum .. I have long been out of school age to worry about someone else’s assessment. if you look at my rating, you will see that it is negative :) can someone with such a rating be bothered by someone's plus or minus? :)
            1. grafrozow
              grafrozow 21 July 2013 13: 43 New
              +2
              Quote: uno
              I also like the site, I read about weapons, I read about history. but most of the articles are one-sided in my opinion.

              There is Wikipedia, but it’s boring without comment.
              Quote: uno
              Is a person with such a rating can be bothered by someone's plus or minus? :)

              Moscow was not built right away. Well, if you had joined the “urapatriots,” the green light.
        2. aviamed90
          aviamed90 21 July 2013 14: 09 New
          +6
          uno

          What political system do you prefer? Whose adept are you?
          Capitalism, anarchy, feudalism, monarchy ...?

          And no one is mourning the USSR! People just compare! Compare with what was. With the period of their life that they lived. And, as it turns out, they didn’t live as badly as it seems to some. After all, you can’t just take and forget a piece of your life?
          1. a
            a 21 July 2013 14: 38 New
            +4
            Quote: aviamed90
            What political system do you prefer? Whose adept are you?
            Capitalism, anarchy, feudalism, monarchy ...?


            I am a supporter of liberal views. but not in the sense that it is present in most visitors to this site, who perceive liberalism exclusively as the teachings of the Chicago school.
            liberalism for me is freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of action, freedom of choice of place of living, freedom of religion, freedom of entrepreneurship, freedom of service to the Fatherland. Freedom can only be limited by relevant laws. This is if very briefly about whose I am an adherent.

            Quote: aviamed90
            And no one is mourning the USSR! People just compare!


            here recently there was an article that we lost the collapse of the USSR. For so many years now we have been mourning the collapse of the USSR. I, as a man brought up in the USSR, also regret the collapse of my country. But I do not consider it necessary to constantly lament over the ruins.
            as for comparisons. I can compare. our city constantly lived on cards. constant lines. goods were sold from under the floor, by pull. in order to vote for such a fucking happy life, they kicked me to the polling station with kicks. I personally do not want to return in those days.
            1. grafrozow
              grafrozow 21 July 2013 15: 03 New
              -1
              Quote: uno
              . I can compare. our city constantly lived on cards. constant lines. goods were sold from under the floor, by pull. in order to vote for such a fucking happy life, they kicked me to the polling station with kicks. I personally do not want to return in those days.

              So do I. drinks hi
            2. aviamed90
              aviamed90 21 July 2013 17: 10 New
              +5
              uno

              Freedom is wonderful!

              But just what do you mean by that? In a practical, everyday, everyday sense?
              And what kind of freedom is it if it is limited by law (although I consider it also necessary)? Judging by your statements, you agree with Immanuel Kant and his definition of freedom.

              But there are a huge number of definitions of this word.
              Type in the search engine "freedom" and you will see this.

              For example, I am inclined to this. It is expressed by the words: "I am free until my freedom violates the freedom and rights of others."

              As for the memories of the USSR, the period that you describe is the end of the 80s - 90s.
              But after all, many remember more well-fed and fair times.

              Well, partly you're right about the election. In the USSR it was like that.
              But is this election fair now? And guarantee the people "freedom of choice"? We choose not even deputies, but parties that express anyone’s interests, just not the voter. Many do not vote at all. So how do these elections differ from the general "approvers"?
              What am I telling you? ...

              And if you are a supporter of “liberal views,” then show me at least one country in the world where these principles are fully applied in practice? USA? Or maybe the European Union?

              Communist ideology also looks perfect on paper, but as it turned out, it has its drawbacks.
              Will it not be the same with liberalism, as soon as you begin to put it into practice? What shortcomings will he have?
              It may turn out that the flaws of communism and socialism will seem to us flowers.
              1. a
                a 21 July 2013 17: 51 New
                +2
                Quote: aviamed90
                But just what do you mean by that? In a practical, everyday, everyday sense?
                And what kind of freedom is it if it is limited by law (although I consider it also necessary)? Judging by your statements, you agree with Immanuel Kant and his definition of freedom.



                freedom is a state in which a person is without coercion. Of course, in certain situations, coercion takes place. such is the reality. I can’t say anything about Kant, I haven’t read it.

                Quote: aviamed90
                As for the memories of the USSR, the period that you describe is the end of the 80s - 90s.



                In our big working city, the card system has been around since the late 70s.
                Quote: aviamed90
                But is this election fair now? And guarantee the people "freedom of choice"?


                Yes, no one guarantees anything now. and juggling the sea. but they’re forcing me to go to the polls. They don’t make you vote for someone. Although I think that there are bonded people. which management makes them vote as they need


                Quote: aviamed90
                And if you are a supporter of “liberal views,” then show me at least one country in the world where these principles are fully applied in practice? USA? Or maybe the European Union?


                if something is not realized somewhere, then this does not mean that one cannot adhere to these eyes. According to idealists, we often perceive some beliefs.
                any ideology (I do not take frankly anti-human) proclaims the people and democracy as the main achievement. but the whole point is not in a "pure" ideology. but in its implementation. yes, on paper in socialism and communism, too, everything is beautiful .. and the implementation turned out to be bloody. especially in the early stages. in any case, there should be a competition of ideologies. and where it is not there stagnation. this applies to socialism and liberal ideologies, where both political and economic competition is limited
      2. DEMENTIY
        DEMENTIY 21 July 2013 13: 24 New
        +3
        Quote: omsbon
        Quote: uno
        yes garbage, this article. I can sketch a dozen of such articles.

        We look forward to, sir, at least one!


        Articles have not been seen, but already managed to spit in comments. what
      3. a
        a 21 July 2013 18: 50 New
        0
        Quote: omsbon
        We look forward to, sir, at least one!



        I wrote an article. sent for placement. but either the moderators have a day off, or it’s not in the mainstream of this site and therefore will not be posted at all. If interested, I can throw it off personally.
    2. Darn
      Darn 21 July 2013 09: 21 New
      +2
      Hello.
      Can you tell me an alternative way?
      1. Nevsky
        Nevsky 21 July 2013 09: 26 New
        +3
        Quote: Here is a pancake
        Hello.
        Can you tell me an alternative way?


        Communism. What is communism in one phrase.

        1. Darn
          Darn 21 July 2013 10: 16 New
          +3
          Communism. What is communism in one phrase.

          Hello Nevsky.
          I don’t have anything against it. But how and who will implement it. "Our government" is very busy with theft.
          1. dustycat
            dustycat 21 July 2013 20: 27 New
            +2
            Quote: Here is a pancake

            Hello Nevsky.
            I don’t have anything against it. But how and who will implement it. "Our government" is very busy with theft.


            Who who ...
            The people themselves.
            If you search on the internet, you can find information about several village villages leading the socialist economy.
            In Bashkiria, in the Smolensk region, in Chelyabinsk, in Irkutsk, in Yaroslavl and several other places.
            They do not accept everyone in a row.
            And they don’t even always keep those whom they have accepted - not everyone is able to work according to their capabilities and receive according to their needs. Many simply intellectually have not grown up to this.
            Management changes are made not once every 4 years, but once a year or two.
            Moreover, once elected leader can be elected again no earlier than five to ten years. And then if from him on the leadership will be good.
            Moreover, it is everyone’s responsibility to be a leader - if you choose not to refuse, and you cannot screw up - they will ask.
            From their day nursery, children with them are brought up outside the family, but not in isolation - something like boarding schools for working days. With minimal strain of parents.
            Build houses for each other and even provide housing for free to those accepted - it will work. Even the excluded are provided with the worst living conditions in the new place of residence.
            All such associations have problems with modern power. Mostly due to taxation. Our tax system is highly incompatible with socialist production.
            With gangsters, fighting off is easier. Everyone is obligated to protect and everyone protects because he is aware that he is protecting.
            There are no restrictions on consumption from the common fund - there is no point in taking more than you can.
            They keep their retirees themselves without the use of social security, which creates another tax problem - it is impossible to calculate the total taxable income when the price of the provided services and consumption is not calculated.
            They buy their own in the store by electronic cards (more precisely, they just take as much as they need or what they ordered), while others will wander - at ordinary prices they can buy for money.

            The wide and real possibilities of self-government are provided by the law on self-government and the housing code.
            The problem is that most people are not able to self-govern (pathologically do not trust each other) or are very busy getting their daily bread.
        2. plantagenet
          plantagenet 21 July 2013 11: 12 New
          0
          Shortsighted, naive people
          imagine communism as a realm of satiety and freedom from
          necessary. But it would be an impossible society, everyone will sit on his head, such
          Communism is worse than bourgeois anarchy! The first and foremost feature of the true
          communism should be discipline, strict submission to leaders and
          follow all instructions. (And especially strictly must be subordinate
          intelligentsia.) The second feature: satiety should be very moderate, even
          insufficient, because completely full people fall into
          ideological confusion, as we see in the West. If a person will not care about
          food, he will be freed from the material power of history, being will cease
          determine consciousness, and everything will go somersault.
          So if you look, the true communism of Stalin is already
          built.
          However, this cannot be announced, because then: where to go? Time is running,
          and everything goes, and we must go somewhere else.
          Obviously, to declare that communism has already been built, generally not
          never, it would be methodical.

          A.I. Solzhenitsyn "In the first circle"
          1. aviamed90
            aviamed90 21 July 2013 17: 48 New
            +4
            plantagenet

            Well, for example, for me Solzhenitsyn is not authority and not the ultimate truth.

            I recommend you read the works of K. Marx.
            Although I am not his follower, I agree with him in many ways.
            1. Misantrop
              Misantrop 21 July 2013 21: 00 New
              +1
              Quote: aviamed90
              I recommend you read the works of K. Marx.
              Marx without preparation is VERY hard to read. It is better to read the works of Engels, there a lot of Marx's ideas are presented much simpler and more understandable
          2. dustycat
            dustycat 21 July 2013 20: 49 New
            +2
            Quote: plantagenet
            Shortsighted, naive people
            imagine communism as a realm of satiety and freedom from
            necessary. But this would be an impossible society, everyone will sit on their heads, such communism is worse than bourgeois anarchy!

            Such an understanding of communism as “freedom from necessity” does not include the obligation to abide by the rules of a hostel, which includes observing the freedoms of a neighbor, as well as the obligations of a neighbor to abide by your freedoms (“sit on your head”).
            Hence the chimera - "bourgeois anarchy." The word "anarchy" excludes the word "bourgeois".

            Quote: plantagenet
            The first and foremost feature of the true
            communism should be discipline, strict submission to leaders and
            follow all instructions.


            Not strict submission, but conscious submission. Make a fool pray to God and he will break his forehead and break the church. Put a fool in the priest at the parish - demons will rest with a laugh.
            The separation of the intelligentsia from the general mass of people is generally a pearl that contradicts the idea of ​​anarchy.

            Quote: plantagenet
            The second feature: satiety should be very moderate, even insufficient, because completely full people fall into
            ideological confusion, as we see in the West.

            Provided that it does not comply with voluntarily accepted and recognized hostel rules. In this case, content in partial satiety is violence. Which again contradicts the idea of ​​anarchy.

            But right, why am I?
            This is not about anarchy at all.
            Well, this is about communism that is told to us by one who himself with difficulty understood what it was.
          3. dustycat
            dustycat 21 July 2013 21: 04 New
            +1
            We continue the analysis ..
            Quote: plantagenet

            So if you look, the true communism of Stalin is already
            built.

            Is it only in a separate office, and not in the whole country.

            Quote: plantagenet

            However, this cannot be announced, because then: where to go? Time is running,
            and everything goes, and we must go somewhere else.

            What to announce then?
            Communism is for everyone by definition, and not for selected units.
            And if there is only for selected units - then it is not.

            Quote: plantagenet
            Obviously, to declare that communism has already been built, generally not
            never, it would be methodical.
            A.I. Solzhenitsyn "In the first circle"

            Typical opinion of an idiot who considers himself an intellectual.
            Blaming that cannot be done. What could be more irrational?

            By the way.
            "Idiot" - refusing to take part in public life. Greek
        3. vBR
          vBR 21 July 2013 13: 50 New
          +5
          Generally speaking, here the SEC is not right and not at all about that. Communism is a type of socio-cultural systems generated by community beliefs, roughly speaking - a family-society with a state-father. All such revolutions have occurred and won in peasant countries, and not one in countries with truly well-trained capitalism by the proletariat. The problem of the USSR was that Russian communism was not translated into the language of an already urbanized population, well-fed and free from mass suffering by the titanic efforts of previous generations, with "liberated creative forces" that suddenly demanded Japanese tape recorders and goodies. For this, the West also envisaged conspicuousness, which turns man into cattle.
          1. grafrozow
            grafrozow 21 July 2013 15: 32 New
            0
            Quote: Vbr
            The problem of the USSR was that Russian communism was not translated into the language of an already urbanized population, well-fed and free from mass suffering by the titanic efforts of previous generations, with "liberated creative forces" that suddenly demanded Japanese tape recorders and goodies. For this, the West also envisaged conspicuousness, which turns man into cattle.

            NOT grateful, well-fed and freed from mass suffering, is it about whom, not really about us? But what about those who work in the North-80% of import technology, komatsu, libher, hitachi ... they also wanted some goodies? At your place What kind of TV, "horizon" or "Sony"? Cancer
            We know how to do it, why not make a good tractor? You know what the ChTZ-Chuvashpiller is called. An English proverb — we are not rich enough to buy bad things. Your patriotism is off topic, there will be good things — and who will not take imports. Nadym June 16, 2013. Our technique is in “work”.
            1. dustycat
              dustycat 21 July 2013 19: 40 New
              +3
              Quote: grafrozow

              NOT grateful, well-fed and freed from mass suffering, is it about whom, not really about us? But what about those who work in the North - 80% of import, komatsu, libher, hitachi equipment ... did they also want some goodies?


              In the USSR, the standard life of equipment was 10 years.
              The produced modern imported equipment has a 3-year service life.
              If we take all of our equipment produced in the USSR until the 1990s and compare it with imported equipment of the 1960s, ours will be more perfect. Despite the fact that the domestic has not changed since the 1960s, this is her problem.
              Why is that?
              Because since the late 1950s, socialist production management has been ruined. And since the 1960s, the improvement of technology has stopped - it was easier to produce junk in large volumes than to improve it.
              The USSR was destroyed by a rampart as planned.
              1. grafrozow
                grafrozow 21 July 2013 21: 15 New
                0
                Quote: dustycat
                In the USSR, the standard life of equipment was 10 years.
                .

                When the USSR in the North, equipment was decommissioned after 5 years or even earlier.
                Quote: dustycat
                The produced modern imported equipment has a 3-year service life.
                Do not tell, unless you mean Chinese. Japanese and American have been working for 10-15 years, especially KATO drills. Sorry, but in my opinion you are not the point, any machine operator working on import and on our equipment will tell you 100 differences which are not in favor of our manufacturers. I myself worked for FAUN and VOLAT, the MAZ-537 comparison is not in our favor, especially in terms of comfort and the number of breakdowns.
                Quote: dustycat
                And since the 1960s, the improvement of technology has stopped - it was easier to produce junk in large volumes than to improve it.
                The USSR was destroyed by a rampart as planned.
                Here I completely agree with you.
      2. a
        a 21 July 2013 11: 46 New
        +1
        I am a reader, my business is to read. if a person undertakes to criticize something, then let it be constructive criticism. and so, just criticize every way
      3. a
        a 21 July 2013 12: 27 New
        +1
        Quote: Here is a pancake
        Can you tell me an alternative way?


        by the way, about the alternative.
        most here do not like consumer society. but is any of you ready to give up consumption? I think no. I think that if you had sufficient finances, you would also like to buy iPhones, iPads, read toys. and make repairs in your apartment more than once in your life, but more often.
        Moreover, think about what the author did not write in her article. and what economic background consumerism has. she did not write a word. I will write to you. The GDP of most developed countries has a very decent percentage in its composition precisely from consumerism. after all, everything that is sold is taxed. and what are the taxes? to finance budgetary spheres - army, medicine, training. accordingly, where there is more consumption there, more taxes are collected and there the state has more opportunity to support state employees. is it bad? Moreover, consumption is now the driving force behind economic development. consumption indices are a very important component in calculating country budgets. and further. when a crisis sets in, this does not happen by itself. these are the triggers of crises. but in the end, everything depends on effective demand. think why the first task of states in crisis is to maintain demand. Yes, because it is he, the demand, who provides industry with orders, banking structures with cash, and with the state budget. there will be no demand, there will be no money for the army. teachers, doctors, etc.
        another thing is that overconsumption or consumption of luxury goods must be subject to additional taxes. I'm not against. but does anyone do this with us?
        so what can be an alternative to consumerism ?? communism? and where to get the money needed by the state and state employees under communism?
        1. Nevsky
          Nevsky 21 July 2013 13: 09 New
          +5
          Quote: uno
          Quote: Here is a pancake
          Can you tell me an alternative way?


          by the way, about the alternative.
          most here do not like consumer society. but is any of you ready to give up consumption? I think no. I think that if you had sufficient finances, you would also like to buy iPhones, iPads, read toys. and make repairs in your apartment more than once in your life, but more often.
          Moreover, think about what the author did not write in her article. and what economic background consumerism has. she did not write a word. I will write to you. The GDP of most developed countries has a very decent percentage in its composition precisely from consumerism. after all, everything that is sold is taxed. and what are the taxes? to finance budgetary spheres - army, medicine, training. accordingly, where there is more consumption there, more taxes are collected and there the state has more opportunity to support state employees. is it bad? Moreover, consumption is now the driving force behind economic development. consumption indices are a very important component in calculating country budgets. and further. when a crisis sets in, this does not happen by itself. these are the triggers of crises. but in the end, everything depends on effective demand. think why the first task of states in crisis is to maintain demand. Yes, because it is he, the demand, who provides industry with orders, banking structures with cash, and with the state budget. there will be no demand, there will be no money for the army. teachers, doctors, etc.
          another thing is that overconsumption or consumption of luxury goods must be subject to additional taxes. I'm not against. but does anyone do this with us?
          so what can be an alternative to consumerism ?? communism? and where to get the money needed by the state and state employees under communism?


          The most competent justification for postmodernism and the era of consumption, I have not yet met here. We played a little on psychology: "they say, but who does not want an iPhone?" Questions about ways to fill the budget of Western countries, where a wide variation in purchasing power, are a success for building social mechanisms and guarantees for both society and the state, were revealed a little. And of course, the classic rebuke from liberal intellectuals: "And what can you offer"? Naturally, the collapsed USSR, and the hungry DPRK, a priori will be a counter argument in case of an answer in the direction of the left idea. I am glad that the liberals began not to hide, I quote you:

          Here I read it from you:

          and further. when a crisis sets in, this does not happen by itself. these are the triggers of crises.


          I am glad that the liberals no longer say how 10 years ago "the market will judge everything," the "invisible hand of the market," etc. (how many human destinies suffered from the crises in our country, people fastened themselves to the doors of banks !!) Maybe after another 10 years, you will say with the same cold-bloodedness that it’s normal when whole African tribes and nations disappear, to please our consumer pleasures, and that it is economically feasible to reduce the population to 1-2 billion people.
          1. a
            a 21 July 2013 13: 37 New
            -3
            Quote: Nevsky
            And of course, the classic rebuke from liberal intellectuals: "And what can you offer"? Naturally, the collapsed USSR, and the hungry DPRK, a priori will be a counter argument in case of an answer in the direction of the left idea


            actually there was no reproach. This is what you perceived. there was only a question, if there is an alternative to consumerism, then where is all the money on the budget?
            By the way, you probably remember the slogan of the times of socialism - from each according to his ability. to each according to his work. we were taught that under communism this slogan is transformed into "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need." it seems that way it sounded. Don't you think that this is a very consumer slogan - to everyone according to their needs? :)

            Quote: Nevsky
            I’m glad that the liberals no longer say how 10 years ago “the market will judge everything”,


            liberalism is not limited to only one of their economic movements, which is preached by the followers of the Chicago school. besides, liberalism has not only economic content. if you look at the concept of liberalism only as what the followers of the Chicago school preach, then I don’t see the difference between those who preach the Chicago version and those who preach communism. I see no difference in their "extremist" perceptions. both there and there are minuses and pluses. but such "extremists" pull out only certain fragments that are most convenient for them to criticize.

            Quote: Nevsky
            for the sake of our consumer pleasures, and that it is economically feasible to reduce the population to 1-2 billion people


            I think that from the point of view of harming African tribes, a Vertu-class conditional luxury mobile phone will do much less harm than a Samsung conditional used telephone.
            if you are such an opponent of consumerism, then I think you need to start with yourself. refuse from the mobile, from the car .. it is possible from the computer. eat only potatoes and other vegetables of your own garden. only two varieties will be enough - white and black. everything else is overkill. it consumes flour, water, electricity. do not consume it. this will lead to the fact that the resources on the planet last longer. including African tribes.

            and yes. I am not a fan of Malthus.
            1. Nevsky
              Nevsky 21 July 2013 15: 12 New
              +3
              a

              Again, all your rhetoric, like any liberal, has slipped to the point that I must abandon the benefits of civilization.

              And where does the potato and the rejection of a mobile phone? I am for mobile communications, but without 1000 applications.

              I am for mobile video calling, but without integration with gaming and shopping platforms.

              Then we will have time for this:

              1. DEMENTIY
                DEMENTIY 21 July 2013 15: 52 New
                0
                Nevsky
                Then we will have time for this


                They were touched by Stanislav. crying From me a gift. hi
                1. The comment was deleted.
                2. DEMENTIY
                  DEMENTIY 21 July 2013 16: 16 New
                  0
                  Stanislav You inspired me good - Do not refuse to take another sample!
                3. dustycat
                  dustycat 21 July 2013 18: 38 New
                  0
                  You need to change a little.
                  1000000 applications
                  not quite meeting the needs.
                  And what the pancake paid for?
              2. a
                a 21 July 2013 16: 28 New
                +1
                Quote: Nevsky
                Again, all your rhetoric, like any liberal, has slipped to the point that I must abandon the benefits of civilization.


                for me your position is strange. you criticize consumerism, but do not want to refuse it yourself. from consumerism. only you need some small consumerism.
                but for example. you just need a phone. no bells and whistles .. to call and sms. and someone does not need to call and text. someone needs a smartphone, for example, to watch the continental hockey league on it. he may even not have a TV. and you would tell me a simple phone .. he also needs something simple, but not the same as yours. and what, the phone developer to create phones for each individually? for the economy, this is a dead end. Therefore, they stick programs in one phone for all occasions.
                by the way, my liberalism has nothing to do with it. this is a simple saving logic.
                1. dustycat
                  dustycat 21 July 2013 19: 11 New
                  +4
                  It is not consumerism itself that is bad, but the fact that it is put into the only possible model of the global economy.
                  At the same time, the whole world is trying to convince that the growth of consumption tends to infinity. Which actually leads to predatory destruction of nature. Since it is not what is needed at the moment. And what you need to sell with maximum profit. At the same time, the product must have a drawback (it should not fully satisfy the need and be as convenient as possible). Then to sell a little slightly changed product deprived of some useful functions available in the previous version. Then to sell ...
                  And so on to infinity.
                  Just to sell.
                  Therefore, cars and any other sophisticated equipment are designed for a maximum of three years of use. You can make a lithium battery for your phone for more than three years. But it will cut corporate profits too much. The world began to be ruled by a “breakdown company limited." They do not give a shit on the globe.
                  In addition, consumption theorists themselves do not cook in their theory.
                  Consumption theorists always forget to say one thing.
                  In order to consume, you must have a salary that allows you to buy what you produce for consumption.
                  The USSR was collapsed in order to get a new consumer market. That's just what consumers should have to buy what they forgot tightly.
                  As a result, production is transferred to regions where the salary does not allow you to buy what is produced.
                  Consumption theory was invented as an alternative to socialism.
                  The USSR was destroyed in the name of this theory.
                  Which after the collapse of the USSR was able to live less than 10 years.
                  The fact that Russia at the same time (after 20 years) has barely entered the stage of wild capitalism is omitted.
                  1. a
                    a 21 July 2013 23: 19 New
                    0
                    Quote: dustycat
                    It is not consumerism itself that is bad, but the fact that it is put into the only possible model of the world economy.


                    Well, why is the only possible? the world is full of countries where consumerism is absent. you can take an example from them.

                    Quote: dustycat
                    Since it is not what is needed at the moment. And what you need to sell with maximum profit


                    but this is already contrary to any economic theory. that liberal, that socialist.

                    Quote: dustycat
                    Therefore, cars and any other sophisticated equipment are designed for a maximum of three years of use.


                    I will not speak generalized. I will speak specifically. I had a car Mazda. sold when she was 17. he owned it for 10 years. There were no complaints until the last year. Sharp’s microwave is at my place. she is 10 years old. no problem. There is a washing machine Ariston. 15. years during this time there was a couple of breakdowns. repaired and then everything works. the refrigerator costs the same 15 years. never broke. Vacuum cleaner Panasonic, this miracle of technology is about 12. Teoshibor Toshiba. years 8. computer- years 5. in general, everything imported from me lasts a long time. at times of course lomatesia .. but does not require replacement, you can fix it. I think of such examples as I can still bring a lot.

                    Quote: dustycat
                    In order to consume, you must have a salary that allows you to buy what you produce for consumption.


                    so earn. who's stopping that? until communism comes, everything has to be paid.

                    Quote: dustycat
                    The USSR was collapsed in order to get a new consumer market.


                    consumption market? what kind of beast is this? sales market is such a concept. but I think that specifically for the sake of this, the USSR was not ruined. collapsed in order to remove the geopolitical enemy. everything else is an appendage. but essentially nonsense, compared to eliminating a geopolitical rival.

                    Quote: dustycat
                    As a result, production is transferred to regions where the salary does not allow you to buy what is produced.


                    production is always organized where there are appropriate resources for this - natural resources, human, technological, financial in the end. Why do foreign companies develop automotive industry here mainly in St. Petersburg, Kaliningrad? Yes, because there it is easier to organize all this in terms of the availability of resources. and the main markets are also nearby.

                    In general, you forgive me, but you have a set of stamps and cliches. as well as a complete lack of understanding of how the economy works. I just mention this, not wanting to offend you. not everyone can know it. I don’t know many things either.
        2. Darn
          Darn 21 July 2013 15: 09 New
          0
          most here do not like consumer society. but is any of you ready to give up consumption? I think no

          Disconnecting is not a problem. But then what? Everything must be prepared in advance. According to the National Schedule, there is a series of "chewers" there you can emphasize ideas.
        3. aviamed90
          aviamed90 21 July 2013 17: 24 New
          +1
          uno

          The question is not in consumption as such, but in its volume and quantity.
          There is consumption under both socialism and communism (each was supposed to be according to his needs).

          The key word is "according to needs", and not at the request of a citizen. Otherwise: if you need an iPhone - please! But why do you need 2 iPhones? Prove that you need 2 iPhones - no problem! But not 3, not 4, not 10!

          That is, there is consumption and overconsumption. These seem to be different concepts.

          Here, by the way, the concept of the comfort of a person’s life still matters. This is a separate topic for discussion, but close to ours.
          1. a
            a 21 July 2013 17: 59 New
            +2
            Quote: aviamed90
            The key word is "according to needs", and not at the request of a citizen.


            in my understanding of need, this is desire. if you have needs you try to satisfy them

            Quote: aviamed90
            Otherwise: if you need an iPhone - please! But why do you need 2 iPhones? Prove that you need 2 iPhones - no problem! But not 3, not 4, not 10!


            I’ve never seen a person have more than 1 iPhone. Well, I can assume that someone wants two of them - to have SIM cards from different operators. After all, having SIMs from different operators is now not a luxury. many need this in the case.
            in general, any normal person has limited needs. and to generalize the irrepressible needs of the abnormal for all people, for generations, is wrong, in my opinion. always, in any society there are abnormal. but their absolute minority.


            Quote: aviamed90
            That is, there is consumption and overconsumption. These seem to be different concepts.


            what is your overconsumption? Is it the consumption of luxury goods or 10 iPhones in one hand? if the first, then the issue is decided by appropriate taxation. which is by the way in many Western countries. if the second, then again we return to some abnormal individuals. no more.
            1. aviamed90
              aviamed90 21 July 2013 18: 27 New
              +3
              a

              Thanks for the interesting discussion!

              I apologize, but I have to interrupt her, because I run to work to earn money, to be able to consume thoughtlessly, or maybe just to survive.

              At the same time I’ll think about your position and answer as much as possible.
              1. a
                a 21 July 2013 18: 44 New
                +1
                Quote: aviamed90
                Thanks for the interesting discussion!



                and thank you.
                I believe that it cannot be said about our society that it is a consumer society. we began to consume a little more than before. but we are VERY far from the consumer society.
            2. Hleb
              Hleb 21 July 2013 18: 36 New
              0
              in general, any normal person has limited needs. and to generalize the irrepressible needs of the abnormal for all people, for generations is wrong
              really why normal three
          2. dustycat
            dustycat 21 July 2013 19: 21 New
            +3
            Quote: aviamed90
            uno
            The key word is "according to needs", and not at the request of a citizen. Otherwise: if you need an iPhone - please! But why do you need 2 iPhones? Prove that you need 2 iPhones - no problem! But not 3, not 4, not 10!

            Not so little ..

            We know for sure that you need an iPhone for the price of 50 bucks and with more than one SIM card, and we know exactly what functions it should have and which ones are not needed.
            But we will give you an iPhone worth 200 bucks because we want so much to get for it.
            And it will not be under standard SIM because it will allow you to pack the goods for another 3 bucks because we want to get them.
            And it will be 100% monotonous for you to buy two, because we want to get another 200 bucks not in three years, but right away.
            And in one version of the iPhone there will not be all the utilities at once. In order to give you another little change in a year, because we want to.

            It is not surprising that multisymmetric smartphones with the capabilities of iPhones appeared in a socialist country - China.
        4. dustycat
          dustycat 21 July 2013 19: 57 New
          +2
          Quote: uno
          I think that if you had sufficient finances, you would also like to buy iPhones, iPads, read toys. and make repairs in your apartment more than once in your life, but more often.

          I have the opportunity to buy an iPhone.
          With one salary.
          But the iPhone does not have the functions that I want and there is no multisymmetry.
          Therefore, I bought a Chinese Android A001 for 4500 rubles.
          There is what I want, there is an opportunity to add what I want, there is multi-term.
          I have the opportunity to make repairs every three years.
          By the nature of my work, I see apartments of people who are able to make repairs at least every year.
          But they make repairs (not a cheap European-quality repair) for at least 15-20 years.
          Just because changing furniture with furniture - even very expensive ones - is cheaper and more reasonable.
          By the way. Most of them also use multisymmetrical Chinese smartphones (well, not for 5-6 thousand, but for 10-15 thousand), and not iPhones - why do they need two three iPhones ?!
    3. Lankov Victor
      Lankov Victor 21 July 2013 11: 14 New
      +4
      uno "I can sketch a dozen such articles"
      If again without punctuation and capital letters, it is better not.
    4. Crocodile
      Crocodile 22 July 2013 02: 06 New
      0
      “mankind has only one way to get out of the highways of consumption — everyone should immediately get a haircut as a monk / nun. well, or live to the end of the resource base.
      By the way, in Russia there is no consumer society. we, in some small part of society, have only the desire to keep up, to be fashionable. "
      Everything needs a certain border. Having two trousers is not a luxury, but rather a necessity. But to throw away a thing that can still be used "because it is out of fashion" - in order not to be outdone, to be fashionable - it’s better and advertising for the consumer society is not necessary ...
  12. Darn
    Darn 21 July 2013 09: 08 New
    +6
    Hello.
    After such articles that show you from the side. I want to take and disconnect from the consumption system. But the question is. Where should the peasant go? Here we take for example a milk product in any store there is a different fat content and in different packages. But essentially it’s still milk. Now I take it from the farmer in a simple bank and is happy as an elephant. I don’t care what kind of milk is fat.
  13. knn54
    knn54 21 July 2013 09: 22 New
    +5
    We were led by an IDEA, and their dollar. Armed with the idea, invincible. Our loss is precisely in the fact that at some point we changed our ideas.
    -uno: take it and just give up consumption?
    NOBODY is against prosperity. SCARY is that we want it at ANY price. And while we differ from animals, PRIORITY of the needs of the spirit over the needs of the body is PRIORITY.
  14. 12345
    12345 21 July 2013 10: 09 New
    +4
    "Everything has been for centuries and there is nothing new under the sun ..." ©

    In principle, the idea of ​​consumption is not such a “cacao,” as it may seem to some excellent-hearted passionaries.
    To get something - you need to EARN for it. Not to mention the fact that it is still necessary to produce. So, that - "all the good things": people plow - production is growing. It grows and, by the way, develops. In every way.
    Under the global, globally victorious communism, it’s not like “iPhones”, but there would simply be no mobile phones. Well, except for public services, of course. What for? Spend that kind of money when, you know, Africa is starving, rivers from north to south are not turned, and the moon has not yet been mastered?

    And the cure for browning was invented long ago: Great Lent is called. From food - bread and water, no fun, no sex. Even with his wife - you can’t. Total, total abstinence. But then - life plays again! With all my updated colors.
    As an alternative to Great Lent, in the midst of total unbelief, comprehensive tolerance and other grimaces of a "free society" - the outbreak of war is not ruled out. The leaders of this very "free society". In order to improve the population.
    And then, out in Holland, American soldiers, at military competitions, were completely lazy: they were warming their belly in the sun and “didn’t want any march-throws”. Helicopters are waiting.
    1. Hleb
      Hleb 21 July 2013 10: 23 New
      0
      I don’t want any throw march. Helicopters are waiting
      they don’t need it and while they are coping. aviation. rockets. satellites win on high technologies
      Total, total abstinence. But then - life plays again!
      yes .. it’s useful for many to fast. and not necessarily according to the church schedule
      1. 12345
        12345 21 July 2013 10: 30 New
        +2
        Somehow, these “high technologies” versus the “over-the-century” Afghanistan did not help them very much.
        1. Hleb
          Hleb 21 July 2013 10: 41 New
          +1
          after Vietnam, is it not progress? but Iraq, Yugoslavia? it all depends on goals. Losses in Afghanistan are their political mistake, not physical training. Would you think less would have died if they had won marches in competitions? And not so big losses for Afghanistan. any state in this country would have problems. it would be necessary to destroy the country, would do
  15. Valery Neonov
    Valery Neonov 21 July 2013 11: 00 New
    +1
    Quote: Rus2012
    "DEVELOP NEEDS and satisfy him" ...
    Previously (5 years ago) it was - "FIND a need and satisfy ...".
    The difference is measurable, and all the time, everyone is eager to bet ON CREDIT. And this is the theft of resources from the FUTURE!
    - now almost all youth have first place - how to ... sell, buy, but not WORK ...
    Quote: Egoza
    Firstly, much depends on education. Give the same child a specific setting: "Everything that is urgently advertised on TV, especially foreign, is MUCH!

    Say education, right!, But if you couldn’t, not that you didn’t want (not surmountable forces) it happened that way, didn’t have time to tell him, but it’s not easier to shut up the “indecent voice”.
  16. DenisBogomolov
    DenisBogomolov 21 July 2013 11: 08 New
    +4
    "Cogito ergo sum" - "I think, therefore I exist" ... Unfortunately, the first part of Rene Descartes’s phrase is almost completely forgotten. Frantic consumption, the pursuit of brands and trends - a lack of mind. Not the brain, but the mind. The average resident of a highly developed Western society does not need to think and analyze at all: everything has already been thought out for him. Its task is to consume. In order to consume, you need to earn money, which then spend on consumption. If you earn more, you consume more. More money is more expensive brand. And whether you need it or not, it's not for you to decide, marketing specialists, PR-technologists and corporate bosses have all decided for you. We live in a cliché world, we operate on clichés, we are inside these clichés. And if someone allows himself the freedom to become a bubble in the middle of the swamp, he is immediately credited with crazy people, they shy away from him, like from a leper. The root idea of ​​modern Western society is inaction. While the resident does not think about anything, he is soft, comfortable, obedient, loyal and lazy like a castrated cat. His only aspiration is all-consuming hedonism, well, so that certainly nothing would interfere! Thanks to the IDEA, Russia has been shut out of this process for many years; now, alas, we are catching up with “leaps and bounds”. And to avoid this swamp is quite easy: you need to be able to reflect, ask questions and answer them honestly. True, there is one snag: a thinking population can start asking questions to their own authorities, questions are uncomfortable ... In general, whatever one may say, one grief from the mind! smile
  17. Massik
    Massik 21 July 2013 11: 26 New
    0
    Actually ... 3-2 years ago, everyone walked in the authorized "slides" and nothing bothered anyone, right now, as you look at one of the MFNs, the other has a Bundeswehr with sewn in knee pads, elbow pieces. They will ask for a "slide" - crap .... no, don’t have to .. "used to get used to just walk in the" flora ", but right now give the gortex with aramid laughing
  18. pinecone
    pinecone 21 July 2013 11: 27 New
    +2
    "Teenagers ...". Vile word. Do you disagree, Ms. Ivankina?
  19. 12345
    12345 21 July 2013 11: 39 New
    +2
    Quote: Gleb
    and they don’t have such big losses for Afghanistan


    "But I didn’t eat everything, I just - I’ve chosen a tasty treat ..." (from one bearded joke, when someone was forced to eat)

    It’s not a weapon that is fighting, the characters of those who have this weapon in their hands are fighting.

    Vietnamese - with character. Afghans too. Therefore, heaped on the "universal man."

    Iraqis are already much weaker, although to call victory that the United States received in Iraq - not only my language does not turn. Yes, they gained control of Iraqi oil, but in the face of a constant threat of terrorist attacks and obviously not for long.

    The Yugoslavs, alas, rotten under the influence of the surrounding "geyrops" and stupidly did not want to fight. Belgrade bombing? Yes, against the background of how they fought with Hitler, these are mere trifles! So, the example of Yugoslavia is a warning to everyone, WHAT happens to the country if everyone “really wants to live” (a typical justification of traitors). By the way, the "right to a decent life" is one of the main slogans of the so-called. "liberals." Well, who, imbued with such slogans, will die? Even if "for the homeland"? As a result, the Yugoslav "homeland" came quite logical "kirdyk." I repeat - to others as a warning.

    In Vietnam, in Afghanistan, and, of course, in the USSR, from the time of I.V. Stalin - dying with dignity has always been considered a higher priority than "living with dignity."

    The USSR, then - was sacrificed precisely for the sake of a "worthy life", though, as again, then it turned out - not for everyone ...
    1. grafrozow
      grafrozow 21 July 2013 12: 43 New
      +1
      Quote: 12345
      In Vietnam, in Afghanistan, and, of course, in the USSR, from the time of I.V. Stalin - dying with dignity has always been considered a higher priority than "living with dignity."
      This is what happens. Now there are no heroes in Russia?
      Quote: 12345
      The USSR, then - was sacrificed precisely for the sake of a "worthy life", though, as again, then it turned out - not for everyone ..

      Can you tell in more detail who exactly sacrificed the USSR? No general phrases needed.
      1. ia-ai00
        ia-ai00 21 July 2013 13: 56 New
        0
        Gorbachev, Yeltsin, sacrificed the USSR with his team: with Chubasik, Gaidar and a bunch of corrupt skins, enemies of the USSR, for the sake of SYSHYa!
        1. grafrozow
          grafrozow 21 July 2013 15: 53 New
          +1
          Quote: ia-ai00
          Gorbachev, Yeltsin, sacrificed the USSR with his team:

          Do you think that ptiya should be responsible for the actions of its leader?
      2. aviamed90
        aviamed90 21 July 2013 14: 21 New
        0
        grafrozow

        Yes, but only they are secret!

        For example, the Hero of the Russian Federation since 2012, Army General N. Makarov!
        Don't like the military?
        Here is another example for you - Hero of the Russian Federation since 2004, Major General of the Ministry of Internal Affairs R. Kadyrov Unclassified, but just as mysterious.

        Well, there are many more heroes on the TV screen and in the media. It’s better not to talk about them.

        You ask: where are the workers, farmers, intelligentsia?

        But others, unfortunately, no! According to the state, other heroes do not give birth to other heroes.
        1. grafrozow
          grafrozow 21 July 2013 16: 02 New
          0
          This is not an example for making friends, at one time Fidel and Sadat became the Heroes of the USSR, and dear L.I. Brezhnev 4 times, the 5th hero of social labor. But there are real ones.
      3. 12345
        12345 21 July 2013 16: 39 New
        0
        Quote: grafrozow
        This is what happens. Now there are no heroes in Russia?


        Thank God there is. There, at least our guys who "torn" the pampered "universal people" in Holland.

        "I would not say that this is a feat, but there is something heroic in it!" ©

        But there are fewer heroes. Heroism has not become very popular. Some, especially those who are "hooked" on foreign grants, sometimes feel free to openly call heroism stupidity and "unjustified victims." Grandpa Dulles’s plan continues ...

        Quote: grafrozow
        Can you tell in more detail who exactly sacrificed the USSR?


        Easy! The Moscow party nomenclature, having grabbed privileges, decided to "grab it all". In order to have something to inherit. And then, after all, (what a horror!), Together with the post, the Soviet leader often lost his apartment, car, and cottage. And even freedom or even life.

        A deliberate and deliberate artificial shortage was created. Well and then, against the background of empty shelves, it was constantly suggested that this, they say, is a defective system, but we will change the system and ... we will live !!! Like THEM, beyond the hillock! There will be sausages - a hundred varieties! Previously, there were, conditionally, two varieties. But this sausage was edible. Because, how, in the harsh years of Stalin’s grandfather, for the non-observance of GOST, they could sew “wrecking” and put to the wall. Now, indeed, sausages are one hundred varieties, if not more. But of them - edible, still two varieties. But for completely different money.

        The people about the whole mass of these and other "nuances" did not even guess. Therefore, when the GKChP struck, no one began to intercede. Everyone wanted "one hundred grades of sausage" and jeans for twenty dollars. And so that the salary was "like them."

        As a result, the total losses in the economy and manpower exceeded the losses of the USSR from the Great Patriotic War. As you can see, no atomic bomb was required.

        Another example from the near history is Egypt. Under the "terrible dictator" Mubarak - the people, for the most part, lived much better than now. The economy was developing, and foreign exchange reserves, oddly enough, were growing.

        Conclusion: all revolutionaries - to the wall. Well, and their relatives to the seventh generation - in a lifelong exile. In hospitable villages around sunny Magadan.

        Universal recipe. It works equally well for the representatives of the glamorous white-ribbon party, and for the severe bearded men "from Kaukaz". Bearders in the Caucasus will generally be transferred. They, their own severe relatives, these beards - plucked by a thread.
        1. Hleb
          Hleb 21 July 2013 16: 46 New
          +2
          what nonsense do you write .. "Dulles plan", "losses in manpower exceeded losses from the Second World War", two varieties of sausage ..))
          1. 12345
            12345 21 July 2013 17: 14 New
            -1
            Nonsense? Oh well...

            But, in essence - you seem to have absolutely nothing to “cover”.
            It remains only to scornfully turn away and proudly retire. In full accordance with the settings of the manuals of the State Department. Or Jehovah's Witnesses. It’s immediately obvious - the same people wrote the manuals to them and printed in the same printing house. For their goals are the same.

            However, Glebushka seems to have been pierced. Do not see him an increase in salary. And even at all - will be reduced. (The Pentagon will start sending civil servants on unpaid leave: http://ria.ru/world/20130312/926803366.html)

            And you won’t last long on virtual general uniforms ...
            1. Hleb
              Hleb 21 July 2013 17: 21 New
              +1
              ... the most reference concentrated patriotic popol!
              Problem officer? smile
              1. 12345
                12345 21 July 2013 20: 17 New
                -1
                Quote: Gleb
                ... popolar!


                Who - what hurts ...

                For some, it’s a “headache,” for others it’s a gouged “hemorrhoids.”

                In general, who - what works ...

                PS. Hello, gentlemen, moderators! And hto, did I hang this mattress (mustache (s) aty-striped) instead of my Kazakh flag? "Take it off immediately!" ©
                1. grafrozow
                  grafrozow 21 July 2013 21: 27 New
                  0
                  Quote: 12345
                  PS. Hello, gentlemen, moderators! And hto, did I hang this mattress (mustache (s) aty-striped) instead of my Kazakh flag? "Take it off immediately!

                  So that’s where the dog rummaged / M. Gorbachev /. And I thought how this ..... in Russian it’s purely scratching. Restore justice.
                  1. 12345
                    12345 21 July 2013 22: 03 New
                    0
                    Quote: grafrozow
                    And I thought, like this one ...


                    What you think "like that Yankee" is just a mile away.
                    And, it seems, even keep the citations from your beloved idol - Judas Gorbi at the very heart.

                    The costs of the psychology of the yum-yum society. However, they say fetishism is being treated. Lobotomy.

                    ......................
                    1. grafrozow
                      grafrozow 21 July 2013 23: 04 New
                      0
                      What a habit of hanging labels, you can politely.
                      Quote: 12345
                      And, it seems, even keep the citations from your beloved idol - Judas Gorbi at the very heart.

                      Gorbi is not Mao, nor who printed his quotes. / M. Gorbachev. So Raisa Maksimovna is in the know. / You are probably young and you don’t know that in the midst of perestroika there was no satellite television, there were only 2 channels, and from morning till night the hero of the screen was M.S.G. and R.S.G.Vot in memory and remains.
                      1. 12345
                        12345 22 July 2013 09: 19 New
                        0
                        Quote: grafrozow
                        What a habit of hanging labels, you can politely.


                        "Well, whose cow would moo!" ©

                        The first label "Yankees", just, you tried to hang, is not it?

                        With regards to the quote box "Gorbi", indeed, they were not officially published. But you, as his most ardent admirer (over there, and Raikhan Maksudovna remembered), you are probably collecting materials about your idol, so to speak, in personal order - "at the behest of the soul." Do not be shy, what is already there - according to old Freud you have made a reservation in this direction more than once. It’s difficult to conceal an awl in a bag - people have not in vain noticed.

                        With regards to the "two channels", it’s like with sausage (see above). Well - a satellite, and not one. Well - a hundred channels, and not one. And you still have something to see? Everything is the same everywhere, isn't it?

                        The yum-yum society with its video “fast food” in all its disgusting “splendor”. The recipes are just as simple - so much nauseous.
                        Young people look, meanders are smoothed out, an ideal herd of future consumers is being formed.

                        Under the Soviets, films were shot a little, but it was piece production and therefore real masterpieces were not uncommon.
                        Now the masterpieces are completely translated - the laws of mass production do not allow.

                        Under the Soviets, there was little fun, and the one that took place underwent severe censorship and not always political.

                        For now - all the gateways of fecal vulgarity are open. Yes? We have become "free" and now anyone can broadcast steaminess, calling it "humor."

                        Speaking of political censorship. Very useful, as it turned out, "weigh." Forces the use of so-called "Aesopian language", which, in turn, contributes to the formation of convolutions in both broadcast and listening.

                        And finally:
                        Quote: grafrozow
                        ... and from morning till night the hero of the screen was M.S.G. and R.S.G.


                        However - dissemble again. And, here it is, what a curious touch: all the guardians for the "free society" passion, as they like to lie! So Stalin they had a "horror, how bloody" and so on and so forth ...

                        Yes, loomed "Gorby" on the screens, it was the case. But, mind you, no more often than today, Mr. Sabyanin before the elections on Moscow channels.
                        And please, for the future - do not argue "to hoarseness to pain, about the taste of oysters with those who ate them ..." ©

                        Not beautiful ... Straight, spoil the whole image of the fighters for the yum-yum society, ugh, you wanted to say: "for a free society."
                        However, on the overalls densely oiled with grants of our “wrestlers” the stain is more, the stain is less ...
  20. wax
    wax 21 July 2013 11: 57 New
    +2
    A consumer society is an aphid reservoir for the financial tycoons of famous clans.
  21. creak
    creak 21 July 2013 12: 00 New
    +4
    “Teenagers” - this, as a rule, comes from ignorance of the native language and the desire to seem very advanced. Unfortunately, a certain part of the "educated" public has always been distinguished by this. Before the revolution, they were said about such that they speak in a mixture of French and Nizhny Novgorod. Unfortunately, we with the Zeal worthy of the best application, we are planted by the media and various political scientists (aftershocks instead of repeated shocks, etc.) In short, a complete WOW.
    1. grafrozow
      grafrozow 21 July 2013 12: 53 New
      +2
      In the ads I read, I need merchandisers, when I found out what it was, I laughed, this is a worker in a store. At our place, we only have one sling at ourselves except as an engineer for moving goods, but it’s at least in Russian.
      1. a
        a 21 July 2013 13: 01 New
        -1
        Quote: grafrozow
        In the ads read-required merchandisers, when he found out what it is-laughed, this is a worker in the store



        Actually, in its true meaning, the merchandiser is a specialist in laying out goods. It is no secret that by correctly laying out the goods, a trading company can increase its income.
        1. Tersky
          Tersky 21 July 2013 15: 18 New
          +3
          Quote: uno
          Actually, in its true meaning, the merchandiser is a specialist in laying out goods. N

          If you call a fool a master, he will not become Einstein. I hate the distorted names of professions that have existed in Russia for centuries. Well, it’s understandable, the worker doesn’t sound like a leverage repeat , here the merchandiser is yes. fellow ..If you didn’t call, he brought it as it was, and stayed.
  22. HAIFISCH
    HAIFISCH 21 July 2013 12: 10 New
    0
    The consciousness of such a society can be cured in only one way, to offer this society a war, as it seems to me this is the only way in our case, when it is simply impossible to break out of this circle or will not be allowed.
    1. grafrozow
      grafrozow 21 July 2013 12: 58 New
      +2
      hi
      Quote: HAIFISCH
      The consciousness of such a society can be cured in only one way, to offer this society a war, as it seems to me this is the only way in our case, when it is simply impossible to break out of this circle or will not be allowed.

      Do you think that after the war, many members of society will survive? I doubt it. The case is in education.
    2. grafrozow
      grafrozow 21 July 2013 13: 46 New
      0
      I agree. But what does it sound like?
    3. creak
      creak 21 July 2013 18: 20 New
      +2
      Have you ever seen what war is? This is not at all like in movies or in books, not to mention computer shooters ... I once had a chance to visit a hot spot and I know what it is. Do not play with words - the war is too cruel a thing and whoever saw it with your own eyes will not understand you ... But to break out of this circle is very simple - you don’t have to get there, but if, as they say, show-offs are more expensive than money then it’s final to everyone ... .
  23. dropout
    dropout 21 July 2013 12: 24 New
    +5
    Unlimited "consumption" leads humanity not only to degradation, but also to complete self-destruction. The slogan (grab-swallow) is the Devil's ideological weapon.
    1. grafrozow
      grafrozow 21 July 2013 13: 18 New
      +1
      I think this does not threaten Russia, the income level of the majority of the population is not the same. As they say, I don’t want to be alive, and all sorts of Filipa Pugacheva and Zvereva are not a showcase of our country.
      Quote: dropout
      . The slogan (grab-swallow) the devil’s ideological weapon.

      That's cool. belay
      JPEG image 075
  24. Bosk
    Bosk 21 July 2013 12: 46 New
    +1
    Consumer society gives rise to a dream of reason, and a dream of reason gives rise to monsters ... what logical chain did I draw on ...
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 21 July 2013 16: 54 New
      +3
      Quote: Bosk
      what logical chain did I draw on ...

      Good link - Bosk-Bosch ...
  25. Sewer
    Sewer 21 July 2013 12: 52 New
    +3
    After reading everything, I remembered the Great Bad Sick of their good old Soviet multi-fund! Remember, where the guy got into another world and there are some fun and a bum!
    1. Nevsky
      Nevsky 21 July 2013 13: 18 New
      +4
      Quote: Sewer
      After reading everything, I remembered the Great Bad Sick of their good old Soviet multi-fund! Remember, where the guy got into another world and there are some fun and a bum!




      Yeah, classic, here it is consumption !!!
  26. vladsolo56
    vladsolo56 21 July 2013 12: 56 New
    +3
    In addition to everything, we can say that, in this pursuit of brands, prestige, a modern person has become a psychopath, constant tension, a stressful life is reflected in the psyche. Now sluggish schizophrenia is almost considered the norm. What will society come about in 20 years?
  27. ia-ai00
    ia-ai00 21 July 2013 13: 22 New
    +3
    Article +! But on the "rails" to the VICTORY of useless existence, the people "put" on the rails expensive the government, stating: - "Before, you were a society of CREATORS, but we want to turn you into a society of CONSUMERS, and I must say for our own purposes SUCCESSFULLY, for the sake of and with the help of the CIA!
  28. rereture
    rereture 21 July 2013 13: 52 New
    +2
    Chasing new technology is nonsense, because in a couple of months it will become obsolete. If you proceed from the need then used a gadget is more profitable than a new one.
  29. kartalovkolya
    kartalovkolya 21 July 2013 15: 51 New
    +1
    The article is not about us, well, it flies from outer space and sees a society of consumers around it, so it’s already in the states now. And our man will never agree with the statement that space flights are expensive and no one needs. Well, the author forgot that man is curious, and the Russian man is an order of magnitude more curious. And he always chose between the stomach and the brain, the brain. And while Russia is still alive, these prophecies are empty words, so all people have hopes for the future connected with Russia and Russian people!
  30. Watchman
    Watchman 21 July 2013 16: 08 New
    +1
    It makes sense to chase the equipment that is needed for the job.
  31. Captain45
    21 July 2013 16: 13 New
    +1
    Not the topic of the article, HOW! Wife sewing stripes for a typewriter, I’m going to the store myself, to wash the general’s star! laughing drinks
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 21 July 2013 16: 55 New
      +3
      Quote: Captain45
      himself to the store, wash the star generalsk

      Virtual vodka-champagne-cognac?
  32. poquello
    poquello 21 July 2013 16: 30 New
    +1
    "Seductive advertising and glossy magazines are not laws that are generally enforceable."

    If only for advertising, the policy of stimulating consumption often uses dirty methods to drive consumers into the inevitability of buying modern goods, even if modern ones are worse. The unreasonably short period of product support and compatibility is often associated not with progress, but rather with the stimulation of purchases. Indeed, you begin to feel like cattle in a stall that has no choice.
  33. trenkkvaz
    trenkkvaz 21 July 2013 16: 57 New
    +4
    Article is nonsense! One pathos that does not take into account economic laws.
    On the one hand, he speaks of a man-creator. A mole is good. And on the other hand, a consumer is supposedly bad. So why do you need a creator if nobody needs the results of his work?
    Or does creation in the Soviet version mean the creation of an excavator mining ore for the production of new excavators? Yes, fucking excavators are not needed by an ordinary person. Just what is such meaningless work for?
    The Soviet economy had a wretched industry of consumer goods, so of course the authorities invented demagoguery in order to reduce the demand for these goods. Even with food they did the same trick. Do we make a little sugar? Declare him a white death.
    What is bad in buying new things? Offer to buy things with a period of use of 50 years? And to close their factories and factories when filling the market. Dissolve workers? And what will these people do? They will not have money for other goods and services. And the chain will decline in all areas of the economy.
    The authorities of any country are primarily concerned about the situation with the development of the economy, that is, its annual growth. But what could be the growth if people reduce consumption? On the contrary, in many countries they stimulate consumption! Only it leads to economic growth.
    And the author of the article actually calls for stagnation of the economy, through a reduction in consumption.
    1. fzr1000
      fzr1000 21 July 2013 22: 54 New
      0
      Those. better to work for work? Better economic growth for the sake of the economy? What for? It is profitable for a producer to produce more goods in order to sell more, get more money, pay "workers", they will spend them on goods of the same manufacturers, they will become even richer, and "workers" will get another (demon) "useful" items, without which could live. In addition to food and medicine, everything else is not necessary to buy every season or with the release of a "new collection / model." But from everywhere they inspire us with something completely different. As a result, a small number of people become richer every day, and everyone else, like a squirrel in a wheel, chases the phantom of "successful life and fashion."
      But the economy is m. is growing.
      1. a
        a 21 July 2013 23: 31 New
        0
        Quote: fzr1000
        Those. better to work for work?


        why? you are working. earn money that you allow to satisfy your needs. in my opinion this is quite normal. another thing is that money is usually less than needs. but that is another question.

        Quote: fzr1000
        Better economic growth for the sake of the economy? What for


        no, growth is not for growth. economic growth leads to an increase in state revenues through taxes, excises, customs payments. these revenues by the state are redistributed according to needs. for example, part of it goes to social programs, part of re-equipment, part of infrastructure projects, etc. accordingly, the income level of the poorest segments of the population increases with the growth of the economy.

        Quote: fzr1000
        It’s profitable for a producer to produce more goods in order to sell more, get more money, pay “workers”, they will spend them on goods of the same manufacturers, they will become even richer, and “workers” will get another (demon) “useful” items,


        Western economy is built on consumerism. it is consumer demand that determines the necessary level of production and even technological progress. if someone doesn’t need something, and someone releases it, then the manufacturer will simply go broke. there are many such examples.


        Quote: fzr1000
        without which they could have lived
      2. a
        a 21 July 2013 23: 45 New
        0
        Quote: fzr1000
        without which they could have survived.


        you can even live without any technical thing. enough wooden wheels and a stone ax. but seriously. There is such a thing as customization. This is a fine adjustment of the manufacturer to the needs of the consumer. everything is very simple. if the consumer does not need something, then he will not buy it. consumers need to satisfy their needs. he doesn’t care that in the device he needs, the manufacturer has laid down a dozen more useful functions. he will not buy this device. he will buy another one that suits his needs.

        Quote: fzr1000
        In addition to food and medicine, everything else is not necessary to buy every season or with the release of a "new collection / model"


        and is someone pushing you to buy a new TV, car or vacuum cleaner every year? no one is forcing. I already wrote here that I have things in my house for 10-15 years. they suit me and I do not buy new ones.

        Quote: fzr1000
        But from everywhere they inspire us completely different


        give a couple of specific examples when you are told that every season you need to update something. just let's not touch the fashion world. Tell us what technology you are encouraged to buy every year.


        Quote: fzr1000
        As a result, a small number of people become richer every day, and everyone else, like a squirrel in a wheel, chases the phantom of "successful life and fashion"


        but what's wrong with getting richer? because they do not steal. They are engaged in production, design, sale. if a person honestly makes money why is it bad?
        and by the way, what do you see bad in a "successful life"? Is it bad that someone wants to be successful? in my opinion this is just wonderful. the more successful people, the better the country lives.

        Quote: fzr1000
        But the economy is m. is growing.


        economic growth is good anyway. it means that people, including in the army, will have additional income. that means the country will be able to build more new planes, ships and tanks
  34. novobranets
    novobranets 21 July 2013 17: 03 New
    +2
    In the photo is the storming of the library by the tribe of Yumba? But seriously, such pictures are not uncommon. Many times I personally saw a roar, mats, moans and cries. For what? Is a new tablet or phone vital? Has anyone paid attention to the dreams of our, alas, already close, future (I mean youth)? “I wish I could get a million bucks” (not to earn, but to get it). Methods of "production" are also not encouraging variety-rob the bank, (as an option, a businessman). And finally, the crown of dreams (damn, already spoke in verse), to start spending, spend, spend. Here, too, is monotonous "cars, huts, heifers, clothes." A new generation of consumers is growing, which does not hesitate to steal, snatch, rob. It’s too late to re-educate, leaving so scary. Personally, I do not see a way out, but I do not lose hope, I know that there are young people who have passed Chechnya and other "warm" places. Who are known for real life values. Maybe a new generation will come from them, real, sloppy men that Russia has always held onto. Sorry, if too pathetic, but wrote what I thought.
    1. rereture
      rereture 21 July 2013 18: 00 New
      -2
      Quote: novobranets
      “I wish I could get a million bucks” (not to earn, but to get it). Methods of "production" are also not encouraging variety-rob the bank, (as an option, a businessman)


      Because a million you can’t earn at least five lives.

      Quote: novobranets
      And finally, the crown of dreams (damn, already spoke in verse), start spending, spend, spend. Here, too, monotonously- "cars, huts, heifers, clothes"


      The question is what to spend on?
      You also have a million, first of all you bought an apartment, or at worst they did a repair in the apartment. Here you have the hut.
      Secondly, I would buy a new car, but I’m not getting along, but something more comfortable and imported. Here you have a car.
      Thirdly, you would buy your wife a fur coat, which she has been asking for more than a year, and there’s the gold necklace that you promised her last birthday. Yes, and something will fall into her mistress. These are women.
      Fourth, of course, a good watch for yourself, a bracelet, and a chain, always with a cross, and a good cigarette case, all in one phone, a camera to photograph your wife in furs in the apartment and you in a suit against the background of a car. These are clothes.

      So you, the past generation, are not nearly better than us, and if you yourself had the opportunity to get a lot of money, you would start spending, spending spending. And would not be ashamed to steal, rob, snatch.
      1. novobranets
        novobranets 21 July 2013 18: 23 New
        0
        I did not do this in due time and will not do it.
      2. aviamed90
        aviamed90 21 July 2013 18: 33 New
        0
        rereture

        Great feature of the older generation! And especially:

        Quote:
        "And would not be ashamed to steal, rob, snatch."

        Do you really think so? Then I feel sorry for you.
        1. rereture
          rereture 21 July 2013 18: 45 New
          0
          This is a fact, look at the date of birth of many robbers, thieves and millionaire occupiers. Most were born and raised in the USSR, and yes they are the older generation.
  35. yakub
    yakub 21 July 2013 17: 20 New
    0
    On the topic, I advise reading Aldous Huxley- "Oh Brave New World", especially to those who see in excessive consumerism the main driver of the economy and progress
  36. Ivan_Ivanov
    Ivan_Ivanov 21 July 2013 17: 27 New
    +2
    computer toys-strategies force not only young people, but imagine people aged to engage in a meaningless, stupid virtual life inside a computer. They are divorced from reality.


    But is that what we are doing - this forum, in fact, not the same?
    1. Hleb
      Hleb 21 July 2013 17: 35 New
      +1
      Not the same?

      exactly
    2. aviamed90
      aviamed90 21 July 2013 17: 38 New
      +1
      Ivan_Ivanov

      Not. Not too.

      Let this site and the product of generalized computerization, but after all, many think, I hope when they read articles and write comments.

      We don’t discuss Swarovski crystals, game levels in “walkers” or news about “stars”.

      Not every site can boast of this.
      1. Ivan_Ivanov
        Ivan_Ivanov 21 July 2013 18: 17 New
        +2
        I would also like to think so. But look at the root.

        Who cares what to discuss. Threads about fashion, toys, or politics. Question of addiction and nothing more.

        We have already learned to think about politics. Discuss too. And nothing more. Nobody has created anything concrete, real, tangible. In addition to meaningless, honestly stupid posts.

        Who is able to tear his ass off the chair and really do something useful. To clean the room, to repair something, to spend time with the children.

        Therefore, for today - bye ... wink
  37. Terner38
    Terner38 21 July 2013 17: 33 New
    0
    Quote: honest Jew
    Article minus! It’s sad to say, but the former Military Review turned into a yellow press website about politics and bitovuha !!! And where does the site administration just look?


    "Politics and everyday life" is a modern method of warfare. The spiritual and moral decomposition of society by the methods of "shopomania" gives perhaps better results than the use of weapons. And article +, the ex-wife would have shown, but just do not understand, "shopping" in action.
  38. Captain45
    21 July 2013 17: 44 New
    0
    Quote: yakub
    Has anyone paid attention to the dreams of our, alas, already close, future (I mean youth)? “I wish I could get a million bucks” (not to earn, but to get it). Methods of "production" are also not encouraging variety-rob the bank, (as an option, a businessman). And finally, the crown of dreams (damn, already spoke in verse), start spending, spend, spend. Here, too, monotonously, "cars, huts, heifers, clothes." A new generation of consumers is growing, which does not hesitate to steal, snatch, rob.

    On Friday I watched “Man and the Law” analyzed several high-profile crimes where very large sums were stolen - the result, as you said, was spent on wheelbarrows, clothes, heifers, zhrachka. Everything is the height of desires, and for this they robbed, killed, cheated with pensions old people. Finish. Yes, they have already done business, completely replaced values ​​in the minds of people. Someone can object, but what didn’t they commit crimes for? They committed, but a narrow group of asocial, criminal orientation. Now it’s all over. And more say that in state n we need ideology. I need it very much, we need a return and the forced planting of "new" old values-labor, family, love for the Fatherland. Like Hitler, he shot a hundred "rabbits", so the Germans still buy tickets. Only so, I think, can to hammer love and respect for order and the law in the head. The question, of course, is the state itself, first of all, to abide by the law. Here's the catch. How to hammer in the heads of statesmen that it’s time, it’s time for the mother to return to true values, and not to promote stupid consumerism.
    1. Hleb
      Hleb 21 July 2013 18: 02 New
      +1
      Like Hitler, he shot a hundred "hares", so the Germans still buy tickets

    2. Black
      Black 21 July 2013 18: 08 New
      +2
      Quote: Captain45
      it’s time, it’s time the mother has returned to return to true values, and not to promote stupid consumerism.

      Article for the capital.
      I spend the summer in the village .... people "plow" from dawn to dusk, they are cleaning, mowing hay in the meadows, melons, weeding ...
      Not a question, not a question.
      1. aviamed90
        aviamed90 21 July 2013 18: 13 New
        0
        Black

        I envy you for good!

        Not everyone has this opportunity.

        And we are forced to work in dirty and dusty cities in order to “consume” thoughtlessly later.
  39. Che-khov
    Che-khov 21 July 2013 18: 14 New
    -1
    I read the article - I almost fell off my chair: how did this philosophical article appear on such a foule-bearing site ?! Yes, even without an "exit" to one common in Russia religion ?! - but then I saw the link below, so calmed down.
  40. rereture
    rereture 21 July 2013 18: 16 New
    +1
    Quote: Captain45
    On Friday I watched “Man and the Law” analyzed several high-profile crimes where very large sums were stolen - the result, as you said, was spent on wheelbarrows, clothes, heifers, and crap.

    Do you have people completely cookie ??
    What to spend stolen money on?
    Do charity do a pancake? So I see Robin Hood who robbed the old and gave it to orphans.
    Organize your business?
    Or damn they will finance the space program?
  41. Prophetic
    Prophetic 21 July 2013 18: 26 New
    0
    Galina, you are well done! Well written, read in one breath. And hurt many ... "consumers". They started to fuss, began to put you minuses. Because they felt uncomfortable, they suddenly began to feel the worthlessness of their existence. How is it, I’m so damn cool, on a behn from 20 years, and suddenly the “I” itself, and even worthless ?! That’s how shitty go out.
    So some citizens can not understand, where does the money come from outside the consumer society? And from there, gentlemen-citizens, that a communist society is a society of deeply moral, morally strong and highly educated people who themselves limit the beast in themselves, themselves, you understand. If capitalism “inflates” the beast in man, exploits the vices of man, FORCING him to work to appease his vices (greed, pride, snobbery, desire for superiority, so characteristic of the baboons males), then under communism people work no less, but receive less there you have the difference. But the lack of material is offset by an interest in work, a community of great work, a moral climate, spirituality, and the search for perfection. Another advantage of this society is that it does not spend resources on senseless competition, but works as a single integral mechanism. Imagine what would happen if your liver suddenly began to compete with the bladder ... In this system, it is not possible that three plants compete with each other, each of them works at 30% capacity, and as a result of the victory of one of them the other two just go to scrap, and the workers go outside. And you think due to what the USSR for 50 TWICE years rose from full F .. to a superpower? Because it worked as a whole.
    I will say more. Such articles will inevitably become more and more, whether we want it or not. Resources are running out, which means INEVITABLE humanity will be FORCED to move from extensive development to EQUILIBRIUM with the environment. Cut down a tree, plant a new one, if you want a new car - first hand over the old one, because the new one will simply NOT be made OUT OF WHAT, except from the old. The strictest saving of resources, energy, water, population. And all this is independent of any ISMs, be they all wrong. Just in fact. And this is completely inconsistent with the society of rampant consumption, which is now. Buying a new handbag when there are five practically new ones at home will be incredibly expensive. In this society, it will not be honored to increase consumption and its artificial stimulation in the form of loans, but rather, to save and increase the efficiency of what you already have. And this inevitably means that this society will be regulated according to OTHER laws, not like the current consumer society. I don’t know how capitalism is in general, but the current financial one, based on loan interest, on stimulating credit consumption, will die for sure. And you can also say for sure that our children in the material plane will live worse than us, and their children - even worse. The revolutionary situation however ...
    1. rereture
      rereture 21 July 2013 18: 37 New
      +3
      Quote: Prophetic
      So, some citizens cannot understand where does the money come from outside the consumer society? And from there, gentlemen-citizens, that a communist society is a society of deeply moral, morally strong and highly educated people who themselves limit the beast in themselves, themselves, you understand. If capitalism "inflates" the beast in man, exploits the vices of man, FORCING him to work to appease his vices (greed, pride, snobbery, the desire for superiority, so characteristic of the baboons males), then under communism people work no less, but receive less. there you have the difference. But the lack of material is offset by an interest in work, a community of great work, a moral climate, spirituality, and the search for perfection.


      Most interesting, people born and brought up in the USSR most often complain about work and, most importantly, about wages. And if they got / earned money, then for some reason they immediately try to go to the resort, buy a car, make repairs in the apartment, and if they got a lot of money, then a premium car, rest only in Cyprus, clothes from a boutique, and gold so that , and they boast so much about it, and boast about it, and show off ..
    2. poquello
      poquello 21 July 2013 21: 03 New
      +2
      “So, some citizens cannot understand where the money comes from outside the consumer society? And from there, gentlemen-citizens, that a communist society is a society of deeply moral, morally strong and highly educated people who themselves limit the beast within themselves, you understand. If capitalism "inflates" the beast in man, exploits the vices of man, FORCING him to work to appease his vices (greed, pride, snobbery, the desire for superiority, so characteristic of the baboons males), then under communism people work no less, but receive less. here’s the difference for you. But the lack of material is compensated by interest in work, community of a great cause, moral climate, spirituality, search for perfection. "

      It reminds very northern Korea, it’s not pinning you know.
      1. grafrozow
        grafrozow 21 July 2013 23: 20 New
        +1
        Quote: poquello
        It reminds very northern Korea, it’s not pinning you know.
        And Schwonder's "Dog Heart". Highlight a quote, otherwise you won’t immediately understand whose thought it is.
        1. poquello
          poquello 22 July 2013 00: 03 New
          +1
          Quote: grafrozow
          Quote: poquello
          It reminds very northern Korea, it’s not pinning you know.
          And Schwonder's "Dog Heart". Highlight a quote, otherwise you won’t immediately understand whose thought it is.


          The classics here are not very quoted that Bulgakov is opposed to Carlson with a friend Engelson. Thanks for quotes, I will try to take into account.
  42. Uhalus
    Uhalus 21 July 2013 19: 29 New
    -2
    By the way, why put the cons article? She is clearly correct.

    General conclusion: our country lost the Great War - the Ideological.
  43. Jurkovs
    Jurkovs 21 July 2013 19: 32 New
    0
    Lemov’s world of “Return ...” is a dystopia depicting the impasse of civilization.
    This is no longer a utopia, it is a predicted reality. At one time, the relevance of filming the Strugatsky film "Big Island" was discussed, I already indicated that the most relevant work to date is "Return from the Stars." Lem is generally underestimated in the world as a philosopher, his Moloch, written 20 years ago, talks about the problems of the Internet today.
    1. Uhalus
      Uhalus 24 July 2013 23: 18 New
      0
      There is still a magnificent story by the Strugatsky - "Predatory things of the century."
  44. Darth Revan
    Darth Revan 21 July 2013 20: 03 New
    0
    Quote: Enot-poloskun
    some white-collar worker has 2 (two) iPhones,



    He’s talking to himself :)))
  45. Obliterator
    Obliterator 21 July 2013 21: 07 New
    0
    Quote: Horde
    For example, the virtual way of life imposed on us now, when complex computer strategy toys force not only young people, but imagine age people to engage in a meaningless, stupid virtual life inside a computer. They are divorced from reality. Such people can be impressed with anything and the truth of an infinite increase in prices, and the fact that all sorts of GMOs are good for health (you take them all), as well as new, expensive drugs, a panacea for all ills,

    Stereotype. A computer game detaches from reality to the same extent as a film or a book. The difference is that she has a variability in the development of events. For this, the people love them.

    PS In vain threw a stone towards the genre of strategies - the public is by no means stupid in them. Especially in the global turn-based, which are generally akin to chess.
  46. individual
    individual 21 July 2013 21: 17 New
    +1
    About thingism, the author is right, but everyone has more pressing problems.
    To educate the child, to educate in the profession, to help solve the roof over his head are strategic questions of the existence of any normal parent.
    Not always, but sometimes to the detriment of "yum-yum" and infringing on the achievements of civilization. Sometimes it lasts the whole life putting aside your personal for the sake of providing first children and then grandchildren.
    Mortgages and bank loans, the acquisition of a decent car are tied hand and foot.
    The whole life of the average Russian is dedicated to this.
    Glamor, five red suits and five handbags, somehow not for us.
    1. vladimir VR
      vladimir VR 21 July 2013 22: 52 New
      +1
      I agree with you. When there is money, you can be a shopaholic and assert yourself in all sorts of purchases. Most people have other problems.
  47. Bigship
    Bigship 21 July 2013 21: 19 New
    +2
    Quote: Vitaliy
    I went to a home loan, it took 10 thousand to buy a satellite TV. So there, oh, take at least 50 thousand! "Born in USSR"


    Consumer loans are evil. Why take a loan? There is one good rule: be patient a little, save up and buy; you can’t save, then you don’t need this thing. For the most part, the modern consumer does not want to follow this rule and is ready to go deep in debt, not realizing that he is voluntarily putting on a noose
  48. dustycat
    dustycat 21 July 2013 22: 15 New
    +1
    I read Return from the Stars in 1981.
    I then had a Kama815 bike.
    We bought it in 1975. On my 7th birthday.
    I then wanted a new one.
    Before I read it.
    I still have this bike on the go. yes
  49. PACIFIST
    PACIFIST 21 July 2013 23: 01 New
    +1
    I think the meaning of the article is that we have become consumers mainly of Western goods, then young people (not all), well, the majority, will not want to fight with their gadgets, they will be relatives for them
  50. Asan Ata
    Asan Ata 22 July 2013 00: 32 New
    +4
    Almost a quarter century has passed since the collapse of the USSR, and capitalism has not calmed down yet, it is still afraid of this ghost. The unique experience of mankind in overcoming base impulses and educating the creator has not been studied by anyone, carefully washed up and filled up with gadgets. Well, apparently the past cannot be returned, but I also do not want to live in this garbage pit. What to do? Escaping to the proposed social villages here, indulging in dreams of a brighter future, or, like Mr. McKinley from a famous film, fearing for his future children, remain lonely? I believe that the realistic approach of the builder of a brighter future is to start with yourself. Not only follow the principles of conscience, but also take an active life position. To teach children, friends and strangers, what is good - what is bad, and, most importantly - why, talk with people, just many do not understand the essence of what is happening, explain, explain and explain. And in this position, you will increasingly meet like-minded people. But where to move? No, not to build the USSR, but to build a community on the basis of national and religious morality, kindness, sincerity, and in the end, make the national slogan: "Man to man - friend, comrade, brother." Good luck to all kind people.
    1. Crocodile
      Crocodile 22 July 2013 05: 15 New
      0
      Most likely, it will take a very long time to explain without the will of the state ... And when the whole system is against goodness, fidelity, humanity - all this is considered a weakness, most likely, you can’t solve anything with explanations .. But you need to try, in any case GOOD LUCK!