Military Review

Frigates for the Baltic Fleet: why they should be and will be more

53

At the groundbreaking ceremony for the Russian Navy, the fourth frigate of the 11356 project ("Admiral Butakov") sounded important newswhich cannot be ignored. It relates to the renewal of the military personnel fleet.


A series of frigates project 11356 for the Russian Navy will be increased. A spokesman for the management of the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC), Yakov Berezhnoy, told reporters: “There are plans to build three more such ships here in Kaliningrad’s Yantar plant, in addition to the six frigates of this project.”

That is, in the near future, not six, but nine such ships can be built. And really soon. The frigates of this project are mastered in a series for an Indian customer and can be built at a good pace (approximately by ship per year). They are also very quickly commissioned - the entire process of retrofitting, testing and debugging the operation of systems and mechanisms is perfectly mastered on Indian ships. Six units for the Indian Navy were practically "baked like hotcakes." And today we have a serial ship, which is so needed to upgrade the combat strength of our fleet.

We previously wrote about frigates of project 11356. This is a medium displacement ship that formally continues the series of Soviet patrol ships. However, it is able to act both in the near and far sea zone (determined by the range of the coastal aviation), and on the ocean. As the chief designer of the 11356 Northern Design Bureau project, Pyotr Vasiliev, said: “... These frigates were tested by our Indian friends, they made crossings across the Atlantic, the Pacific Ocean and proved their viability and reliability in the sea and ocean areas.”

In addition, the composition of weapons frigates 11356 project significantly superior to the Soviet patrol. Their weapons complex is fairly balanced and allows you to effectively deal with both surface ships of the enemy and submarines, to repel attacks of air attack weapons. Armament should be compared with the Soviet destroyers of the 956 project (“Sarych” - by the name of the project cipher, or “Modern” - by the head destroyer of this series). Yielding the latest in artillery (two double-barreled 130-mm units on the Sarych against one 100-mm on the 11356 project), they are superior to destroyers in offensive and anti-submarine weapons. And they are at least equal in the anti-aircraft system (the same Uragan rocket complex and a more advanced short-range rocket-gun complex). The 11356 frigates carry eight Kalibr-NK (Club-N) or Onyx (Yakhont, Brahmos) anti-ship missiles. Both complexes are superior to the Mosquito missiles carried by 956 destroyers. A complex "Caliber" to the same universal purpose - in the ammunition can include both anti-ship missiles and anti-submarine missile torpedoes, depending on the combat mission. If necessary, the frigate can take and missiles of this complex, intended for attacks on coastal targets. However, the standard ammunition, limited to eight launch cells, makes it possible only a point use along the shore.

Thus, up to 2020, we can get nine completely modern and versatile ships. Moreover, the first (“Admiral Grigorovich”) can be accepted into the fleet at the beginning of next year. Its launch is expected just a few days ago, and mooring trials are planned for the autumn.

It should also be noted that the first three ships of this series will be part of the Red Banner Black Sea Fleet, and the next three will remain in the Baltic. Previously, all six frigates planned to transfer the Black Sea. As Yakov Berezhnoy said at the groundbreaking ceremony: “The first three frigates will go to serve in the Black Sea Fleet, the second is likely to remain on the shores of the Baltic”.

This decision is most likely due to an increase in the series to nine combat units. It should be considered correct, and this is why. At present, the twice red banner Baltic Fleet is in dire need of renewing its combat strength. And if for actions in the Baltic it will be enough already included in the composition and only under construction corvettes (patrol ships) of the 20380 project, then to ensure and strengthen the heterogeneous groups of ships operating in the Atlantic, something more serious is needed. At the moment, the Baltic Fleet patrol ships Fearless and Yaroslav the Wise are perhaps the most sought-after ships in various sea and ocean cruises. They are close in class to the frigates of the project 11356, in fact, being their predecessors (more on this here). And it is simply necessary to strengthen the Baltic Fleet with such ships.

At the moment, NATO forces consider the development of their forces in the Baltic area as a priority. Here Russia directly borders on the NATO member states, not having “buffer territories” that were created under Joseph Stalin as a necessary condition for strategic security. And under these conditions, as a “buffer” capable of meeting enemy forces far from our own borders, we can only rely on the fleet. NATO has superior forces in the Baltic. However, the land and air component of NATO’s power in the region is highly dependent on sea and air supplies through the Baltic area. And the Baltic Fleet needs to be strengthened so that it can, if not nip, then at least constrain NATO's actions in the Baltic Sea basin.

Perhaps, the Russophobic part of the population of the Baltic states, who are already constantly talking about the “Russian threat”, will not like this very much. However, the direction of the threat is just the opposite. We are only forced to respond to threats that come close to our borders. And Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia should understand that the only goal for which their countries have taken into the North Atlantic military alliance is the need for a strategic foothold at the borders of Russia. Well, a little more extra "cannon fodder."

Russia will restore its military potential, including in the Baltic. But the Baltic states instead of “security”, the promises of which local politicians explained their joining NATO to their residents, receive the status of the front line of an aggressive military bloc. With all the consequences. If they were neutral, they would feel calmer.
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  1. tronin.maxim
    tronin.maxim 19 July 2013 08: 01 New
    +5
    Waiting, waiting for new ships! smile
  2. Bronis
    Bronis 19 July 2013 08: 55 New
    +9
    The news, in general, is positive and even expected. The continuation of the series was mentioned a year ago. However, an increase in the number of frigates of Ave. 11356 may indirectly indicate problems with the staging of a series of Ave. 22350. Actually, they initially turned to 11356 Ave. because of the postponement of deadlines on 22350 ...
    1. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm 19 July 2013 12: 24 New
      11
      Quote: Bronis
      Actually, they initially turned to pr. 11356 because of the postponement of the deadlines for 22350 ...

      It’s obvious that someone has given acceleration at the North Shipyard, now work is in full swing, but Gorshkov will be part of Kasatonov most likely in 2014. An interesting aspect of the layout pr.22350
      1. bddrus
        bddrus 19 July 2013 13: 10 New
        +1
        put the antenna on the main mast or not? the one that AFAR?
      2. Bronis
        Bronis 19 July 2013 13: 35 New
        +1
        Quote: saturn.mmm
        Gorshkov will be part of the most likely in 2014

        Probably yes. Although when laid, Masorin announced the change back in 2011 ...
  3. Gomunkul
    Gomunkul 19 July 2013 09: 02 New
    +6
    Amber team keep it up! Factory new orders and prosperity! hi
  4. Skiff
    Skiff 19 July 2013 09: 11 New
    10
    Well done, keep it up, a beautiful ship, powerful and just handsome !!! Here are 3 Indian brothers.
    1. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm 19 July 2013 12: 25 New
      +2
      Quote: Skiff
      Here are 3 Indian brothers.

      Hindus three more are going to order
  5. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 19 July 2013 09: 30 New
    +4
    M-dya. So "Polement-redoubt", and with it the frigates of the 23350 project nevertheless covered themselves with a copper basin. crying
    1. leon-iv
      leon-iv 19 July 2013 10: 03 New
      +6
      no one was covering up dope sooner or later.
      Most 11356 will go just the same to the Black Sea Fleet and not to the Baltic. In the Baltics in general, NK will soon lose their meaning.
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 19 July 2013 10: 35 New
        +5
        Quote: leon-iv
        no one was covering up dope sooner or later.

        there is such a thing - it also seemed to me that they were about to finish it. But everyone doesn’t finish it and don’t finish it. Then, already here, on the site in the comments, people who claimed to be related to the office developing Redoubt wrote that everything was infinitely bad there - the people ran away, the plaster was removed, the client was leaving ... I considered this information to be “drained by the polymerism,” but I was still wary. .. And see for yourself -
        1) When they wrote about a promising destroyer about Polyment Redoubt, the bast shoe did not ring - they talked about the marine modification of C-400 / 500
        2) "Gorshkov" himself is standing all of himself outwardly almost ready at the wall, but categorically does not want to surrender to the fleet. Is it really that hard to finish? there is money, people probably also have it - well, or you can find it, well, I don’t believe that they can’t build a building for so many years. But if he has problems with Redoubt - then everything is clear and understandable, the shipyard has done its job, but there are no weapons, so it’s worth it.
        3) And now here's an increase in the 11356 series.
        And what do you want to think?
        1. patsantre
          patsantre 19 July 2013 11: 25 New
          0
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          1) When they wrote about a promising destroyer about Polyment Redoubt, the bast shoe did not ring - they talked about the marine modification of C-400 / 500

          I think the redoubt for the destroyer will not be enough, so ...
          1. Tektor
            Tektor 19 July 2013 11: 41 New
            0
            "M-dya. So "Polement-redoubt", and with it the frigates of the 23350 project nevertheless covered themselves with a copper basin.“This is not at all. Project 20380 turned out to be too weak a target illumination station for SOC“ Furke2. ”Probably, you can solve the problem with this station (there is too little space on the ship of this project): let Shipunov’s heirs demonstrate their competence ...“ Well A real man always has something to say! Unless, of course, he is a real man! .. " wink
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 19 July 2013 13: 11 New
              +4
              Quote: Tektor
              On the 20380 project, the target illumination station of the Furke2 social center was too weak.

              Furke has nothing to do with it - there is no "Poliment Redoubt" on the corvettes, but a "redoubt". The difference lies precisely in the fact that in the original the redoubt should be induced by the powerful Poliment radar. A redoubt + furka on a corvette is a perversion with an easily predictable result.
          2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 19 July 2013 13: 13 New
            +3
            Generally speaking - it is, the redoubt is small. But in theory, it would be him who would serve as the basis for the C-400 / 500 missiles - not to take Atlant turret mounts as a source!
        2. Bronis
          Bronis 19 July 2013 11: 49 New
          +2
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          1) When they wrote about a promising destroyer about Polyment Redoubt, the bast shoe did not ring - they talked about the marine modification of C-400 / 500

          Podill "butter" on the topic. Messages began to flicker that they would develop a new corvette project as an alternative to the 20380 / 20385 - cheaper and with a different composition of weapons. Yes, and on the "Guardian" "Dagger" stood. Then, like, "Poliment" on subsequent serial ... but you never know. And with Gorshkov there may be many other problems ... the design has not been worked out + a system-wide crisis in shipbuilding
        3. saturn.mmm
          saturn.mmm 19 July 2013 12: 35 New
          +1
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          And what do you want to think?

          Gorshkov June month, they are building. They say that in the 14th it will go into operation.
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 19 July 2013 13: 13 New
            +3
            I would really hope that I'm wrong!
            1. saturn.mmm
              saturn.mmm 19 July 2013 14: 07 New
              +1
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              I would really hope that I'm wrong!

              From me, this is information at the level of rumors, but there are also rumors that in October missile launches will be in the Barents Sea.
        4. chunga-changa
          chunga-changa 20 July 2013 00: 03 New
          0
          They are building too quickly, the base in Novorossiysk is not yet ready, so far there is nowhere to base ships and scatter them around the fleets.
          1. not good
            not good 20 July 2013 11: 53 New
            0
            Let them share with the Pacific Fleet, there will be base places for three fleets.
      2. roma-belij
        roma-belij 19 July 2013 23: 44 New
        +1
        Just in the Baltic Sea, because of the small depths of the NK, the base of the fleet is so far.
    2. Russ69
      Russ69 19 July 2013 21: 09 New
      +1
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      M-dya. So "Polement-redoubt", and with it the frigates of project 23350 nevertheless covered themselves with a copper basin

      Redoubt had problems with the rocket, this year they promised to try again. In any case, according to the manufacturer, there should be no misfires.
  6. indiggo
    indiggo 19 July 2013 10: 21 New
    0
    Well, here it seems to me a slightly different reason for the transfer of 3 ships to the Baltic, namely, the problem of updating in Sevastopol, Ukraine does not allow updating the composition. in Novorossiysk apparently there is not enough space for everyone. how not to twist the Black Sea Fleet is much more important in the realities of the modern world.
  7. Mhpv
    Mhpv 19 July 2013 10: 29 New
    +2
    New ships are very good, only the service life of the sailors is depressing, given that the ships are becoming more modern and equipped with advanced technologies and weapons, and it costs the state and taxpayers 1 a very small year. During the year, the sailor only becomes more or less a specialist and begins to understand what he is doing, and he should go home already so there’s no return from him, so I think a little too much (the last six months, at least this is a passenger named demobilization), but two will be fine.
    Once the Russian fleet is being developed, then there are a lot of matrosses and where to get them if you change every year because the birth rate, especially for boys, is not growing at such a pace in Russia.
    1. little man
      little man 19 July 2013 10: 32 New
      -1
      But somewhere until the 60s they served in the Navy for 5 years, in the army 3.
      Well, they had nothing to do.
      1. not good
        not good 20 July 2013 12: 00 New
        0
        The post-war call was hooked for 7 years, my comrade’s father was “lucky” in the TC at the Black Sea Fleet. But they served and nobody ached that the service life was long.
  8. SOZIN2013
    SOZIN2013 19 July 2013 10: 44 New
    0
    Perhaps, the Russophobic part of the population of the Baltic states, who are already constantly talking about the “Russian threat”, will not like this very much. However, the direction of the threat is just the opposite. We are only forced to respond to threats that come close to our borders. And Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia should understand that the only goal for which their countries have taken into the North Atlantic military alliance is the need for a strategic foothold at the borders of Russia. Well, a little more extra "cannon fodder."
    hi good
    These words and their government would prove !!!
  9. indiggo
    indiggo 19 July 2013 10: 54 New
    0
    in general, it is still unclear which project was chosen for the Russian fleet. but wait a little soon to see.
  10. SOZIN2013
    SOZIN2013 19 July 2013 10: 56 New
    0
    M-dya. So "Polement-redoubt", and with it the frigates of project 23350 nevertheless covered themselves with a copper basin

    There will be a ship. They will not abandon him; they have already gone a long way. For the enlargement of the project 11356 I am only glad, I can only wish good luck to the shipbuilders. And 22350 will take root better in the North and the Pacific Ocean. The truth is now you can forget about the unification of the fleet. But the ship per year is also not bad, WHAT TO DO IS AND THE BENEFITS AND BENEFITS.
  11. indiggo
    indiggo 19 July 2013 11: 04 New
    +3
    Quote: SOZIN2013
    The truth is now you can forget about the unification of the fleet. But the ship per year is also not bad, WHAT TO DO IS AND THE BENEFITS AND BENEFITS.

    the larger the series, the faster the project returns to payback, which is important. if you add that to date, the number of ordered ships of the project 11356 is 12 (these are precisely signed). if you believe that there will still be 3 for us, and it seems that even the Indians want 3-4 ships. that is, the series can reach 19 ships.
    but this can not but rejoice ...
    1. chunga-changa
      chunga-changa 20 July 2013 00: 07 New
      0
      How do you imagine the "payback" of a warship? Did you mean cost reduction?
  12. patsantre
    patsantre 19 July 2013 11: 44 New
    +8
    11356 is certainly a good ship, by today's standards. And by tomorrow? This decade it is relevant, the next year the bar will rise, it will not take so long, it will become obsolete, in the end, we don’t have time to buy it, but it’s time to change it to a more modern one. This ship from the series “cheap and cheerful.” Judge for yourself, the air defense system compared to the same redoubt or air defense system based on the ajis (which is already being molded on frigates) and so on - looks very modest (if anyone forgot, this is a Shtil-1 air defense system with missiles with a range of 70 km), strike armament - only 8 UVP, in terms of CIUS and radio electronics, the ship does not represent anything special, in comparison with modern foreign frigates, for example, horizon, Lafayette, Alvaro de Bazan (Arly Burke in miniature).
    And what do we have? Do you think that we have an inexpensive and good ship that can be launched in a good series? Yes, but you had to buy them yesterday, and if you rivet them now, then after 10 years they will be out of date and need to be replaced , and naturally there is no question of any savings.
    Whether it’s the frigate 22350 business. 2 times as many strike weapons (16 UVP UKSK), much more serious air defense systems and the military control system, and what’s there, the ship is really beautiful. Is it really so difficult to allocate some money, strain someone and finish this fucking redoubt, and then begin to rivet this frigate wherever possible.

  13. smiths xnumx
    smiths xnumx 19 July 2013 11: 54 New
    +2
    The first 6 pieces of project 11356 go to the Black Sea Fleet. 3 more things are not clear where (I hope in the Baltic), and there is no contract yet. Moreover, the Indians plan to purchase another 3. Actually, I personally think that now 6-8 more are needed at the Pacific Fleet because there the update comes with a creak.
    So what we have: CFL in the foreseeable future in chocolate: "Dagestan", "Tatarstan"; 3 IACs of project 21630, plus one project 12411T Gomel (remade from RTOs), 6 RTGs of project 21631 (one Sviyazhsk is already being tested in Astrakhan, the second Uglich city is planned to be commissioned at the end of this year, and a total of 6 ); Chamois, Dugong, auxiliary fleet, all new. And they don’t particularly observe the enemy there: the Azerbaijani TFR of project 159, without missile weapons, the Turkmen "Lightning" of project 12418 and Kazakhstan patrol boats. True, the Iranians are planning a second "destroyer" (essentially an ordinary light frigate) of the Jamaran type, to the 2 missile boats there (Peykan, Dzhoushan) that recently arrived in Astrakhan, but this is tolerable.
    The Black Sea Fleets are planning to significantly update by 2017 (6 frigates of the project 11356, 6 DPLs of the project 636.3). So this year they are preparing to hand over to him the frigate of project 11356 Admiral Grigorovich (the fourth ship of the Admiral Butakov series was laid down, the fifth ship, Admiral Kornilov, will be laid on the day of the Navy) and the diesel-electric submarine of project 636.3 Novorossiysk and, in general, the situation with the age-old fleet , there will become bearable. Plus RKR project 1164 "Moscow", diesel submarine "Alrosa", 2 MRC project 1239 "Bora" and "Samum", plus the old but peppy "smart" (modernized project 61, armed with "Mosquitoes", "Okay", "Inquisitive" (Project 1135 / 1135M), 7 IPC of Project 1124, RTOs of Project 1234 “Mirage” and “Calm.” Of course, there remains the question of basing, but this is a matter for politicians.
    1. Retx
      Retx 19 July 2013 12: 19 New
      0
      Quote: smiths xnumx
      The first 6 pieces of project 11356 go to the Black Sea Fleet. 3 more things are not clear where (I hope in the Baltic)

      The first three are BSF, and the second is BF. At least that's what Berezhnoy said.
      1. smiths xnumx
        smiths xnumx 19 July 2013 14: 08 New
        +1
        Well, what's the point of keeping 3 more frigates in the Baltic. There are 2 destroyers of project 956 (1 under repair), the Persistent and Restless have nothing to do, and the TFR of project 11540 take turns on ocean trips. The sea is shallow, especially not to turn around; the way out of the sea (Baltic straits, Kiel Canal) is controlled by NATO. If something is required in the Baltic, in my opinion project 20380 corvettes for replacing the obsolete IPC of project 1331 without missiles and project 21631 missiles for replacing the obsolete missiles of project 1234. Regards! hi
    2. chunga-changa
      chunga-changa 20 July 2013 00: 12 New
      0
      In case of need, CFL ships can replenish the Black Sea Fleet.
  14. smiths xnumx
    smiths xnumx 19 July 2013 12: 04 New
    +3
    I’m going to continue: the Baltic Fleet is now quite good: TFR Yaroslav the Wise and Undaunted keep an ocean watch, the core of corvettes is 20380 (3 in service, one more “Stable” will be handed over by the end of the year) plus the destroyer “Persistent” of project 956, 3 diesel-electric submarines (2 project 877, 1 newest project 677 "St. Petersburg", they say that it will be transferred to the Federation Council) 4 RTOs of the project 1234, 7 IPC of the project 1234, 7 RCA of the project 1241. The situation is already bearable. Although I agree with the author of article 2-3 of the TFR of project 11356 for long trips, they would not be inhibited there, because I have to constantly drive TFR of project 11540.
    SF there build 22350 and 22385 and so on. So, by the end of this year, they plan to hand over the PLA of Project 885 Severodvinsk there, the frigate of Project 22350 Admiral Gorshkov to the 14th brigade of anti-submarine ships, is preparing to move from the Baltic DEPLs of Project 677 St. Petersburg, especially since it is the strongest our fleet today, and the age of many ships is small, so the Admiral Chabanenko was commissioned in 1999, and the Admiral Kulakov BPC changed cars in 2010, plus the repaired Kaluga diesel-electric submarine. Plus, the Admiral Nakhimov TAKR is being modernized.
    All that remains is the Pacific Fleet with Varyag and 4 BODs of Project 1155, which will not climb out of the ocean, and the EM Rapid of Project 956, which is scary to let go. And if other fleets are actively replenished with new ships, then for the Pacific Fleet only one corvette of project 20380 "Perfect" is being built by the local shipyards, the delivery dates of which are constantly moving, for the last time at the end of 2014. UDC project "Mistral" "Vladivostok" "Sevastopol" requires appropriate protection and maintenance. It is planned to transfer the Marshal Ustinov RKR project 1164 from the Northern Fleet, but when will it be repaired if it began in July 2011? And this, taking into account the territorial claims of Japan, however, China is also not so cloudless, of a possible conflict between the two Koreas. So, in my opinion, TFR of project 11356 are necessary, first of all, in the Pacific Ocean. Yours faithfully! hi
  15. indiggo
    indiggo 19 July 2013 12: 15 New
    0
    Quote: patsantre
    11356 is certainly a good ship, by today's standards. And by tomorrow? In this decade, it is relevant, in the next year the bar will rise, it will not take so long, it will become obsolete, in the end, we don’t have time to buy it, but it’s time to change it to a more modern one.


    Yes, you are right in something, but here it is not so simple. project 22350 is much better, but it needs to be brought to mind. until it works out. and the fleet needs new ships right now. this is the first moment.

    the second moment you forget the ships of project 11356 have very good prospects for modernization. if everything works out with 22350 then a lot will be taken from this project.

    The third point is the speed of construction. 1 ship per year is a very good indicator.
    1. patsantre
      patsantre 19 July 2013 12: 32 New
      +2
      Quote: indiggo
      Yes, you are right in something, but here it is not so simple. project 22350 is much better, but it needs to be brought to mind. until it works out. and the fleet needs new ships right now. this is the first moment.


      I understand this, therefore, I am surprised that they can’t finish it anymore. Already the 8th year. Is it really not clear that Russia needs this frigate more than ever.

      Quote: indiggo
      the second moment you forget the ships of project 11356 have very good prospects for modernization. if everything works out with 22350 then a lot will be taken from this project.


      Which, for example? The hull of the ship will no longer be redone, it will not become more inconspicuous, it will not be possible to push weapons anymore without an increase in size. 8 calibers - it will not be enough ...
  16. 1c-inform-city
    1c-inform-city 19 July 2013 12: 36 New
    +2
    I would like to add that the Caspian flotilla is a subdivision of the Black Sea fleet and in the threatened period it is possible to go to the Black Sea within 2 days. At least corvettes and mrk. Their armament and autonomy correspond to the Black Sea theater.
    1. little man
      little man 19 July 2013 12: 58 New
      -1
      Interesting info.
  17. indiggo
    indiggo 19 July 2013 12: 55 New
    0
    Quote: patsantre
    I understand this, therefore, I am surprised that they can’t finish it anymore. Already the 8th year. Is it really not clear that Russia needs this frigate more than ever.


    just everyone understands this, but technically there is no possibility, industry cannot. such money is poured there. while there is no return yet, too much has been lost in 20 years.



    Quote: patsantre
    Which, for example? The hull of the ship will no longer be redone, it will not become more inconspicuous, it will not be possible to push weapons anymore without an increase in size. 8 calibers - it will not be enough ...


    that is almost all. HOOK, redoubt, package, bius. I don’t know about 8 cells, although I suppose that it will be possible to increase to 24.
    1. patsantre
      patsantre 19 July 2013 13: 04 New
      +1
      Quote: indiggo
      that is almost all. HOOK, redoubt, package, bius. I don’t know about 8 cells, although I suppose that it will be possible to increase to 24.


      Say, redoubt? Yes, the fact of the matter is, would we have a redoubt, build 22350 and not bother. And to take the Calm out of a ready-made ship and put a redoubt ... if possible, it is very, very problematic and expensive.
      How are we going to make 24 cells for the caliber? No, this is technically impossible, and we are unlikely to see more than 8. To push one single UKKS into 4 cells is already to significantly increase the VI and dimensions of the ship, shift the center of gravity, etc. The project is something like this It’s not easy to upgrade Oh, and there’s no way to push additional cells into a ready-made ship.
  18. indiggo
    indiggo 19 July 2013 13: 12 New
    0
    but we are not talking about tomorrow, modernization if it will be after 2020. as far as I know such a project is already in the layout, it will be shown to the Indians who have directly announced that they are ready to buy another 11356 only in an improved version with the ability to modernize all ships.
    so wait and see. anything possible would be desire and means.
  19. Letterksi
    Letterksi 19 July 2013 16: 06 New
    0
    For the Russian fleet it is necessary to constantly build new ships and replace them with old ones. The fleet cannot be rebuilt before the emerging conflict in 2-3 years. The fleet must be engaged constantly. Unfortunately, most Russian ships are far from new. We need to build new ones and update old ones
  20. Odysseus
    Odysseus 19 July 2013 19: 03 New
    0
    Increasing the series to 9 ships is good.
    But the plans for sending them to the Black Sea, or even more so to the Baltic are completely incomprehensible, especially in the face of a difficult state of the Northern Fleet and catastrophic Pacific Fleet.
    What will these ships do in the Baltic? What combat tasks to solve?
    Why, with a scanty number of new ships, create a fleet "for beauty".
    1. altman
      altman 19 July 2013 19: 27 New
      0
      for Severov and Pacific Fleet - frigates of the project 22350
      1. Odysseus
        Odysseus 19 July 2013 22: 17 New
        +1
        Quote: altman
        for Severov and Pacific Fleet - frigates of the project 22350

        Where are the 22350 frigates for Pacific Fleet? So far, the last old BOD have been finished there.
        And most importantly, this does not answer the question: what kind of combat missions can 11356 have in the Baltic?
        1. bddrus
          bddrus 20 July 2013 12: 42 New
          0
          if you notice, the Caspian flotilla is the first to get the maximum upgrade - so apparently you decided to go from the smaller to the larger
  21. altman
    altman 19 July 2013 19: 30 New
    0
    The main thing is that admirals have enough names for frigates .. wink
  22. bublic82009
    bublic82009 19 July 2013 22: 23 New
    +2
    during the Second World War, the Baltic Fleet and the 1st World War did not conduct serious operations. he was blocked in his ports and performed secondary tasks. when it became easier (the ground forces moved the enemy away from the base) the Baltic Fleet began to act. but again, naval battles were not conducted with the Nazi fleet. The Baltic Sea can be blocked by cruise missiles and aircraft. who owns the sky that owns the Baltic.
  23. Mikola
    Mikola 20 July 2013 19: 15 New
    0
    Hmm, recently I wrote that project 11356 lifesaver for Rosflot. And in other comments this project was highly appreciated. Likely at the top of this resource. Here everything is done correctly as for me.
    1. Andrey77
      Andrey77 21 July 2013 13: 01 New
      +1
      Half of the Baltic Fleet stands at the pier due to problems with the power plant. We were a little carried away by weapons and computers, and engines - junk. Here is the frigate of project 11356. And what engines are on it, did anyone wonder? Even Wikipedia on project 11356 has nothing to do with cars.
  24. xomaNN
    xomaNN 21 July 2013 19: 43 New
    +1
    Very good development of the project 1135! Often been in the 80s on the ships of this project. The ship was all visually alright, optimized. So the design decisions by the shipbuilder provided an excellent basis for modernization. There are not many of them left, mainly a resource has already been released - more than 25-30 years. And at the Black Sea Fleet it would be more likely to replace it, otherwise it would not even be funny to keep a long-term TFR of 61 projects in the fleet :))
    1. Andrey77
      Andrey77 24 July 2013 11: 52 New
      0
      Sevastopol, alas, the territory of Ukraine. And keeping the latest frigates on a leased base is, to say the least, unreasonable.
  25. Gorchilin
    Gorchilin 23 July 2013 10: 13 New
    -2
    Very controversial utility of this fleet. During the Great Patriotic War he was completely eliminated from the game for a couple of years. In a way, only coastal forces acted, and naval artillery (it’s stupid to build a ship when you need one gun).

    In conditions (God forbid) only what was able to act there in the last war is light forces. And even earlier, skerry flotillas. For any large ships there simply will not be room. Therefore, it would be rational not to get involved in new projects. If for the mission we need ships, transfer morally obsolete and technically worn ships from other fleets.
    1. Andrey77
      Andrey77 24 July 2013 11: 48 New
      0
      If for the mission we need ships, transfer morally obsolete and technically worn ships from other fleets.
      --

      1. Have you drunk the vodka? For representation, worn-out steamers ...
      2. New projects are not an aircraft carrier, they really have nothing to do in the Gulf of Finland - the air forces of the north-western district (or the central one, are too lazy to look at the wiki).
      1. Gorchilin
        Gorchilin 24 July 2013 12: 43 New
        -1
        1. If you are stupidly thumping, this is exclusively your problem, kiss your glass and do not load uninvolved;
        2. Search the Network "Characteristic by navigation area" to broaden your horizons. Old, technically worn ships are simply dangerous to release into the stormy ocean. Their radio equipment simply does not meet modern requirements, and the weapons are outdated. Repair and modernization of these ships is simply impractical.

        There is some point in translating obsolete patrolmen and destroyers into calmer regions and waters. Moreover, these ships still cannot be used in military operations, and they can induce horror in appearance with any technical condition.