Military Review

Accident "Proton" and found switchman

169
Disputes continue over what became the real cause of the accident, which happened not so long ago with the Proton-M, designed at the Khrunichev Center. The official results of the investigation will be announced before the end of this week, as reported by the media, Anna Vedischeva, press secretary of Roscosmos. However, the same Mrs. Vedischeva noted that after the publication of the results by Roskosmos, the investigation will not be stopped, they will be dealt with by a special government commission headed by Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin.


Accident "Proton" and found switchman


It is noteworthy that the officials, without waiting for the end of the investigation into the causes of the disaster at Baikonur, have already rushed to state such reasons. In particular, the head of Roscosmos, Vladimir Popovkin, immediately after the tragedy with Proton, revealed that the cause of the catastrophe was a premature start. According to him, the rocket launched on 0,4 from an earlier date. After these words of Popovkin in several publications, specialists in the field of rocket and space technologies immediately criticized these very words, stating that such an insignificant “false start” could not be the real cause of the catastrophe that occurred during the launch of the launch vehicle.

After some time, information came from the depths of Roskosmos that the cause of the fall of Proton-M was not an “early” start, but the fact that a certain employee at equipment installation managed to confuse polarity - “minus” with “plus” ... And with such a confusion, the rocket allegedly began to take off from the ground, after which the incompetence of the assemblers showed itself, and what happened happened: almost 4,4 billion rubles (Proton-M plus satellites on board) collapsed some time after takeoff.

So far, Dmitry Rogozin, who also received information about tangled contacts, was excited and thought that this confusion was impossible, Trud newspaper presented revelations about the disaster, no less than the leading design engineer of the Khrunichev State Research and Production Space Center. This same employee opened up on the pages of one of the forums, where he was "spotted" by the journalists of "Labor". Whether the design engineer wanted to "shine" if he used a network nickname for his revelations, and whether it was really the Khrunichev center design engineer, Trud does not report ...

But he brings the following revelations. Incognito publishes data according to which it was he who participated in the direct design of the launch vehicle. After the catastrophe, the same person allegedly took part in identifying its causes, and found that someone installed the DOP and angular velocity sensors "upside down."

Incognito (together with other members of the commission) identified this by the strange position of the arrows, which corresponded to the incorrect installation of the sensors. After the discovery of a marriage in the assembly (recall, found after the accident) began to work with documents that, again, allegedly, and showed who is the main cause of the accident that occurred in the sky above the Baikonur cosmodrome. This culprit identified (according to the letter of the documents, of course) a young man who managed to work in the center im.Hrunicheva no more than three months. At the same time, the young one (“incognito” calls him a kid) was even talked to a lawmaker, and he said, quoting: “I was absolutely sure that I had installed the sensors correctly”.

The questions that the lead engineer (or so, the “lead engineer”) was thrown about, why the engineers themselves didn’t check the work of the person who worked in the strategic center without a year for a week, answers something like this: the electrical monitoring did not show the incorrect installation for some reason, visual inspection was not carried out.

At the same time, “incognito” declares that today literally people are invited to the plant that is strategically important for the country, literally from the street, who are simply looking for a more or less bread place, and therefore such confusion with confused sensors can be considered, well, almost the norm, since control is lower than the baseboard. .

So, if we assume that the lead engineer of the Khrunichev Center illuminated by “Trud” is really the lead engineer, and that he is telling the truth, a frost runs over the skin and is not at all easy. It turns out that the vacancies of assemblers, welders and installers of radioelectronic devices (and this is at least) at strategic enterprises are almost occupied by guest workers, who yesterday grazed cattle, and today they rivet spacecraft, having no profile education, or any responsibility. And if so, what, tell me, prevents the “specialist” from getting to work at the same Khrunichev center, who has the direct task to do everything so that Proton-M does not take off ... And who can guarantee that this “kid” “Not such an idiot as he tries to imagine himself ... Lead engineer guarantees? Or the head of the center? Yes, after the revelations published on the Web, the price of such guarantees will steadily strive for zero.

Of course, you can declare that there were enough decorating (intentional or “it just happened”) at all times, only there was a time when any craftsman could be caught by the employee who controls the work. And what happened to this marketer or those who did not catch his hand for various reasons, was well remembered by many. If today there is no such control, then it remains to be surprised not that Proton-M fell, but to how other spacecraft generally manage to get to space ... The percentage of accidents is too frightening and suggestive of certain reflections.
If according to the results of the investigation it is really announced that a “kid” with a microscopic experience is to blame for everything, then what will it lead to? And it will lead to the complete discredit of the industry. Well, after all, the words about the collector's guilt are the same as if the commander, commenting on the lost battle, declared that ordinary Tsutskin was guilty in defeat, who managed to join the bayonet not to the barrel, but to the butt, but nobody controlled it at that moment ...

With regard to the collector, who “found the bread place”, they can start a case, after which the court will think for a long time about what punishment for this switchman to determine ... To force 4,4 to work out a billion rubles? It seems that the “boy” is a pity ... Yes, and to entrust him with any serious work is already somehow scary, if what the engineer said is true.

Start unwind business further? - God forbid, on much larger burbot you will leave - nizzzya ... There remains a proven method recently. The collector is clearly to blame, but punish him with a fine of thousands in 30 rubles. Understand, as they say, forgive, and forget about the lost billions and the prestige of the national astronautics ...

The verdict, which Roskosmos can arrange, and the Khrunichev center ... And will they suit us with this option? .. If yes, then the real culprits sip a cocktail through a straw, once again say thanks to our naivety.
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  1. domokl
    domokl 18 July 2013 07: 04
    17
    Everything is exactly at 100% according to the scheme I had previously predicted. Only the engineer will be added to the collector and the deputy head of the workshop. I recall how some here wrote with hope. Now there will definitely be conclusions, there will definitely be a criminal case. Rogozin was squirting heavily in TV camera. lol
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 18 July 2013 07: 30
      +7
      Quote: domokl
      . I recall how some here wrote with hope. Now there will definitely be conclusions, there will definitely be a criminal case. Rogozin saliva squirted heavily in the camera

      It was one thing wrote here, something like -Well, I have not seen such a sharp Rogozin laughing OU Dear where are you? Kindly comment on the current situation and "conclusions"
      1. Tersky
        Tersky 18 July 2013 07: 44
        11
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        comment on the current situation and "conclusions"

        Hello Sasha! You did not know belay ? We have already had 30 years as a country of hatchers, haulers, haulers, etc. fellow
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 18 July 2013 07: 57
          10
          Quote: Tersky
          You are not

          Hello Vit! Yes, I knew that, because at once I said that an ordinary electrician would be to blame for everything. It’s just that a person here proved to everyone like -Well, Well, now they will transplant me, well, now Rogozin’s patience has burst. I’m just naive people by the most I can’t. Rogozin said, Rogozin did, Rogozin did not, Rogozin said again laughing
          1. Tersky
            Tersky 18 July 2013 08: 08
            +5
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Rogozin said, Rogozin did, Rogozin did not, Rogozin said again

            good ! And they say there is no perpetual motion machine and cannot be laughing The engineer is resting with his "Work, work and work" ... wassat
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 18 July 2013 08: 28
              +9
              Quote: Tersky
              ! And they say there is no perpetual motion machine and cannot be

              There is no perpetual motion machine, but the whole country knows the eternal talker.
              He will rip everyone off in words, persuade everyone and find the guilty, bring everyone to clean water, reform, rearm and devil know what he will do am BUT only in words, but to whistle, as you know, not tossing bags laughing
              1. Canep
                Canep 18 July 2013 08: 42
                10
                What are you arguing about? Definitely Proton was dropped, because there were (maybe) Glonas satellites on board. This is the second accident with Glonas satellites in three years out of five accidents in the same three years.
                1. Bronis
                  Bronis 18 July 2013 12: 00
                  23
                  What do you mean!
                  The proton fell due to the fact that the silushka is the attractor between the rocket and the Earth's Solidity, separated by a distance, is proportional to their masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them ...
                  In other words, Ser Isaac Newton is to blame. Not only that, the Englishman, but also Isaac. Well, since Isaac, then you know who is to blame ...
                  So far, shy of explaining. But it fits into the logic ... belay
                  1. dustycat
                    dustycat 18 July 2013 21: 03
                    +2
                    Quote: Bronis

                    In other words, Ser Isaac Newton is to blame. Not only that


                    Oh yes, if they knew about Sir Isaac Nevton ...
                    And then they bought tests, they paid for a successful exam ...
                    And who is Sir Isaac Neton and not taught.
                    And what is positive feedback and how it is formed from negative feedback is also not taught.
                    So I had to invent such a crap, retouch photos.
                    Oh yes, if they only knew about sulfur Isaac Nevton ...
                2. vjhbc
                  vjhbc 18 July 2013 20: 09
                  0
                  well, how did they drop the usual race?
                3. ben gun
                  ben gun 19 July 2013 12: 14
                  +3
                  “This is life ... I imagine a picture something like this: after installing the unit on a regular basis, there were difficulties with reconnecting the electrical connector. Well, there is not enough length, maybe the cable was made shorter, maybe somewhere it was laid a little differently ... The guys who carried out the installation were just used to the cable connecting easily. And here, on you, it does not fit. But you must dock! Without saying anything to anyone, they took the initiative, demonstrated ingenuity and remarkable physical strength. They put the block in place and docked the cable. That's all ... Surely a self-monitoring operation. Then they presented the Quality Control Department, they came (if they arrived - the end of the year), checked - the cable is docked, locked, sealed, the unit is in place. Closed ... Kapets, of course, but personally was a participant in almost the same situation. During installation, a confusion of two identical units occurred, only later it became clear that with such a crossover, fuel is supplied to the oxidizer cavity on each unit after additional assembly and vice versa. The design passed all types of control, the situation was saved by the old test tester, he noticed that when piping the product at the stand, the purge pipelines do not join. And the pipeline is a Du 6 pipe! Those. bends easily. And he did not bend the pipelines, the configuration of which has developed over the years of testing, but called OTK. He also turned out to be a wise man and immediately stopped all work and demanded a fee. There was a big scandal, as a result of which they changed the design in terms of eliminating the possibility of additional assembly in the presence of a mix. The product is serial. At the time of this incident, it was in operation for 30 years. By the way, on the Proton. The possibility of the same mix always took place on ZiH. But it has never been realized. As a result, there was a constructive possibility of making a mistake with catastrophic consequences, but it never happened. Because qualified and responsible staff worked. “The conscience of the worker and the right hand - much more reliable than any OTC” - I do not remember where I saw, but I remembered. PS Then they deprived me of the prize, but I took the liter to the locksmith. ”

                  “They talked about the sensors today in the news, showed the sensors themselves and the plates of their installation. He noted that the correct arrangement of the sensors is provided by two pins located diagonally on which the sensor is mounted with holes on the pins. But they didn’t think about the bolts for securing the sensors: turn the sensor over by 180 degrees, and the holes for the bolts match. This is a design flaw. The good fellow who installed the sensors hammered the pins into the plate flush with the hammer, turned the sensor over, the holes for the bolts in the inverted state coincided, nobody noticed anything. If the distances between the bolt holes on the top and bottom of the sensors were different, then it would be impossible to install the sensors upward. ”
                  Taken from A. Wasserman's blog.
                  I will add on my own - although I do not work in the space or aviation industry. permits are. The chorus girl installed the "foolproof" connector upside down on the board, and the "foolproof" connector did not help.
                4. Dios
                  Dios 24 July 2013 12: 02
                  +1
                  By the way, with this Glonass some mysticism (laundering or concealment) is already going on, the satellites break themselves, then they suddenly go into those services, or even missiles with them (if they were there at all) constantly fall. It’s not for nothing that everyone there insures.
                  How can one hide the failure from the president with glonass if he does not really work. rocket current break
              2. Tersky
                Tersky 18 July 2013 12: 00
                +1
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                BUT only in words, but to whistle, as you know, not tossing bags

                And why not turn it around if they are full of dough laughing
        2. experienced
          experienced 18 July 2013 10: 20
          11
          Quote: Tersky
          ? We have already had 30 years as a country of hatchers, haulers, haulers, etc.

          Hi Victor hi We have a country of "sawmills" at the top, while the lower ones, looking at what suits the "top", are already taking out, taking out and "draining" themselves. There is no order and is not foreseen, on the contrary, a firm statement is given "We are not in 37th year !!!" Everyone understood everything correctly, and those who doubted received confirmation: "They will not be imprisoned for theft, they will be limited to fines (economic amnesty)"
          We live in a fun time, what will happen if the price of oil and gas falls? The oligarchs' appetites will not diminish ... It seems to me it will be like in that joke: "I will drink the same amount, but your son will have to eat less" crying
          1. Tersky
            Tersky 18 July 2013 10: 29
            +4
            Quote: seasoned
            : "I will drink the same amount, but your son will have to eat less"

            Alexey, our hi You! So we are initially on a diet yes , but the elite "drink" much more and more often wink
            1. experienced
              experienced 18 July 2013 10: 31
              +3
              Quote: Tersky
              You! So we are initially on a diet

              This is not a diet, but starvation winked
              Quote: Tersky
              but the elite "drink" much more and more often

              When will the liver fall off of these reptiles? wassat
      2. strange and pretty meaningless
        strange and pretty meaningless 18 July 2013 14: 03
        0
        HOW GOOD TO BE A GENERAL - BETTER WORK I WILL NOT BE GUIDED FOR YOU ...
        http://www.carmenmodels.ru/models/2/71/index.php
        http://globalist.org.ua/novosti/geopolitical-news/vedishheva-i-popovkin-no94229.
        html
        A spokeswoman just got in shape after an accident laughing
    2. Tersky
      Tersky 18 July 2013 07: 31
      26
      Quote: domokl
      . I recall how some here wrote with hope. Now, there will definitely be conclusions

      Alexander, hi ! Actually, the conclusion has long been made: Made in the USSR, pros .... but in Russia:
    3. xetai9977
      xetai9977 18 July 2013 07: 42
      10
      As expected, they began to nod at each other, and then together they blamed everything on the "switchman" - the guy.
      1. Pilat2009
        Pilat2009 18 July 2013 20: 36
        +1
        Quote: xetai9977
        As expected, they began to nod at each other, and then together they blamed everything on the "switchman" - the guy.

        There were such cases when the barges fell chtoli or I don’t remember exactly. Found that the hole there is somehow clogged with a cork neatly
        They began to dig, they found a collector, contrary to the rule not to work at night, this one did his dark things at night. By the way, it didn’t work to give the tower, they just fired. Another military representative cut the cable to annoy the director .....
    4. an-sar
      an-sar 18 July 2013 08: 17
      11
      Yes, do not be surprised !!! All this was predictable! Our state, the education system, culture, industry and production began to be destroyed in 1985 by laws and decrees written in the US Congress, with the advent of the 90s they successfully plundered, and the guilty amnesty !!!
    5. The comment was deleted.
    6. valokordin
      valokordin 18 July 2013 08: 20
      +1
      Quote: domokl
      .Rogozin saliva sprayed heavily in the camera. lol

      And who wiped the camera from saliva.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 18 July 2013 08: 29
        +8
        Quote: valokordin
        And who wiped the camera from saliva.

        This "holy" drool cannot be removed.
        1. S-200
          S-200 18 July 2013 08: 56
          +1
          yeah ... like the snot with the tears, the vice-premier from the evon sleeves and cheeks
          laughing
          "zhurnalyugi" what to take from them?
          it would be better if he appointed artists to these positions wink
          Seryozha Bondarchuk after the 9th company - Airborne Commander .... wassat
          1. Volodin
            18 July 2013 09: 53
            +8
            Sergey Bondarchuk (People's Artist of the USSR) died in 1994 year. If only Fedor ...
    7. Joker
      Joker 18 July 2013 08: 27
      21
      Well, they discovered the secret directly, and everywhere it’s not from the fact that the Unified State Exam and education is bad, but because no one wants to learn + corruption, they used to dream of becoming astronauts, and now they are businessmen and everyone firmly believes that to become a businessman mind is not the most important quality, the main thing is friends, connections, etc. And such freaks after studying at institutes are looking for a job and ..... they are fucking so beautiful are not needed by anyone, and knowledge is 0. So they start to rush to anyhow where they will settle in, so that the work is not dusty and zp. Normal, our rockets fall like this, because the authorities are sitting there too, and the normal guys who studied, they want to work as designers are corny there, just like everywhere, well, these freaks do not like when there is someone smarter than them, you look and the animals will soon be taken, and then suddenly the monkey will do something better than them. The problem is in upbringing and corruption, with the help of the first one the freaks grow up, and with the help of the second they get a job. It is necessary to go through all the state. companies and to dismiss this rabble, and recruit those who want and can.
      1. JonnyT
        JonnyT 18 July 2013 12: 07
        +4
        shrug and say mystical things, they don’t need a commission but a psychic that told how everything was ....
        The first thing you need to do is put the leadership team in cancer, what it is they do not control the situation, they carry some kind of nonsense, if you manage at this level then get ready for personal responsibility for the entire industry !!! Yes for all !!!
        Citizens, gentlemen, comrades! This is what is happening then ??? Tired of watching how these urki imagining themselves to be gods avoid responsibility and fair punishment ...... to drive about ... such meta leaders ....... first hired elite secretaries, fight, and the turner is to blame or laws of physics .....
    8. strange and pretty meaningless
      strange and pretty meaningless 18 July 2013 14: 01
      14
      Quote: domokl
      Rogozin saliva sprayed heavily in the camera.

      Yes, there not only Rogozin sprayed - and not only saliva wassat
    9. Shaitan
      Shaitan 18 July 2013 14: 42
      13
      Compatriots! there is nothing surprising in this article! Based on my experience, I can say this is true.
      About three years ago, I was a potential gene. contractor for the reconstruction of OJSC Kuznetsov, a plant located in Samara and is a supplier of engines for space flying apparatuses of Roskosmos and some of our foreign partners, went on a tour of the plant in order to assess the scale of "disasters". What I saw impressed me a lot, but not as much as it should have impressed a graduate of the Kazan Aviation Institute, who at the sight of our defense plants had to give up everything and go to work there, NO! I saw how in workshops with a dilapidated roof, on boxes with boards imposed on them, since the floor is flooded with water to a depth of half a meter, workers jump from machine to machine and at the same time drilling something, milling and carrying out similar operations that lead to making some of the world's most complex engineering products!
      At the same time, one of the engineers, almost crying, told me that at one of the next summits, our government agreed to supply the USA with 15 engines per year, with our internal demand per year - 10 engines, and the plant at that time could produce 4 engines per year.
      The reconstruction of the plant did not take place, and the launches of Progress are growing, so it is not surprising that the quality of these launches is not falling.
      I’m a great Patriot of my country, and I am very pleased with how Russia is developing, but unfortunately there are still many problem areas, and if someone is to be put for falling missiles, then certainly not young inexperienced guys, but Gorbachev and his associates, and on Red Square!
      1. Scoun
        Scoun 18 July 2013 18: 56
        +5
        Unfortunately, this is a "tradition" of modern Russia.
        In the central office, shine, condo, dear secretaries with advanced functions, assistants and press secretaries with an elite package of additional services and no hard work and a hefty salary.
        The lion's share of the money goes exactly to this glamorous "center" where the main drink of money goes, but where the smaller part of the funds goes ... it is there that the hard workers inject for several times less money.
    10. The comment was deleted.
    11. nycsson
      nycsson 19 July 2013 00: 38
      +2
      The video is dedicated to all supporters of Russia's accession to the WTO !!! fool fool fool
    12. w.ebdo.g
      w.ebdo.g 19 July 2013 02: 27
      0
      who asked for "landing"?
      they started with bulk, the rest can be in line ...
      I think that before the end of the year there will be several more high-profile cases.
  2. ole
    ole 18 July 2013 07: 05
    0
    Effective owners must be let go and they certainly will do everything and the Chinese comrades will open the way to space.
    1. Nevsky
      Nevsky 18 July 2013 07: 33
      +2
      The people, or I do ... to:

      In particular, the head of Roscosmos, Vladimir Popovkin, immediately after the tragedy with Proton issued information that the cause of the disaster was a premature start. According to him, the rocket launched 0,4 seconds ahead of schedule. After such words by Popovkin in several publications at once, specialists in the field of rocket and space technologies sharply criticized these words, saying that such a minor “false start” could not serve as a real cause of the catastrophe that occurred when the launch rocket was launched.

      After some time, information came from the bowels of Roscosmos that the reason the fall of Proton-M was by no means an “early” start, but the fact that a certain employee during the installation of the equipment managed to confuse the polarity - “minus” with “plus” ... And with such confusion the rocket supposedly began to take off the ground


      Or is everything happening as in this plot of a parody of Rosskosmos and Popovkin !? Well, right after the scenario:

      http://video.mail.ru/mail/ms.nasta.2001/_myvideo/6.html

      You won’t believe that someone ruined the recording unit of this parody (sound) on YouTube, so I threw you a link to another resource, so I would insert a video. (Worked a month ago) Coincidence? laughing
      1. Furnace driver
        Furnace driver 18 July 2013 09: 07
        +3
        Quote: Nevsky
        (Worked a month ago) Coincidence?

        Yes, no, everything is much simpler: they took as a basic plan of action laughing
  3. serge-68-68
    serge-68-68 18 July 2013 07: 07
    19
    For some reason, it seems to me that if for a poorly made road the director of the company is paved for the first time to the knee, the quality of Russian roads will dramatically improve ...
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 18 July 2013 07: 31
      +2
      Quote: serge-68-68
      if for the poorly made road the director of the company is paved into the asphalt for the first time to the knee,

      It remains to find the one who will roll into the asphalt - the case for small hi
    2. Tersky
      Tersky 18 July 2013 07: 34
      27
      Quote: serge-68-68
      For some reason it seems to me that if for a poorly made road

      Sergey, hi ! Speaking of roads:
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 18 July 2013 08: 00
        +6
        Quote: Tersky
        ! Speaking of roads:

        A question from the field of algebra for Grade 5 — How many of the 7.5 billion bucks flowed into the pockets of officials, if initially the total project amount was less than $ 1 billion?
        We sit, think, decide wink
        1. valokordin
          valokordin 18 July 2013 08: 26
          12
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Quote: Tersky
          ! Speaking of roads:

          A question from the field of algebra for Grade 5 — How many of the 7.5 billion bucks flowed into the pockets of officials, if initially the total project amount was less than $ 1 billion?
          We sit, think, decide wink

          The figures are certainly not comparable, you come to the conclusion that all the Olympiads, Universiades, World Cups are a cut of the budget and theft, which is probably the same thing. Here he is the bestial grin of capitalism and its apologists in the highest echeloes
          1. ale-x
            ale-x 18 July 2013 09: 07
            +1
            Why be surprised? The surest way to earn money, no, like this - EARN is war and construction.
            When I began my career, looking at the director of the enterprise, I thought that this uncle was a fine fellow, etc., he was constantly building something. Either the welding workshop repairs, or the builders put the dining room in a new tile, the builders have developed activities not small. Then I grew up a bit and realized, having been at his house, that I had already seen all the materials somewhere, and half of the builders worked at his house. So here.
          2. Garrin
            Garrin 18 July 2013 09: 07
            +2
            Quote: valokordin

            The figures are certainly not comparable, you come to the conclusion that all Olympiads, Universiades, World Cups are a cut in the budget and theft

            I came to this conclusion when I saw Mudko jumping for joy after the approval of Sochi as the venue for the Olympics.
          3. Letterksi
            Letterksi 18 July 2013 11: 16
            +3
            Not for nothing, Boris Mironov says that for the loot thrown at the APEC, it was possible to build 1090 regional hospitals in full
        2. tun1313
          tun1313 18 July 2013 09: 13
          +1
          How many of the 7.5 billion bucks flowed into the pockets of officials ...

          According to the practice of project management (I immediately say that it’s not ours, but overseas), a 20-25% increase in the cost of the project is normal. Therefore, 7,5 - (1 + 0,25) = 6,25, well, about the same.
        3. experienced
          experienced 18 July 2013 10: 29
          +1
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          -How many of the 7.5 billion bucks flowed into the pockets of officials, if initially the total amount of the project was less than $ 1 billion?

          Apparently little or the appetite grew because yesterday DAM made a proposal to hold a winter sports universiade in Russia ... wink
      2. JonnyT
        JonnyT 18 July 2013 12: 09
        +2
        "thank you" lady and to ....... so that their devils with a red-hot poker fuck ... and!
  4. NOMADE
    NOMADE 18 July 2013 07: 19
    12
    What a tin it is direct! We survived .. If you do not start taking urgent measures, then we become the bearers of the sunset of Russia, as one of the leading space powers .. ((I wonder how astronauts feel at launch, seeing what is going on with the launch of satellites?
    1. ziqzaq
      ziqzaq 18 July 2013 13: 10
      +1
      Quote: NOMADE
      What a tin it is direct! We survived .. If you do not start taking urgent measures, then we become the bearers of the sunset of Russia, as one of the leading space powers .. ((I wonder how astronauts feel at launch, seeing what is going on with the launch of satellites?

      That’s for sure, the nibs are shaking, although maybe starting 0,5 per brother (Pepsi-Cola snack)? I won’t be surprised if this is so .......
  5. Sgt.
    Sgt. 18 July 2013 07: 21
    +9
    Until there is control, the Real, as in Korolev. And a competent investigation into the causes of accidents. And the corresponding punishments for negligence and sabotage, up to treason, as under Stalin, rockets will continue to fall.
    The system used to be tough of course, but it worked reliably.
    And current reforms do not always lead to good results.
    Here comes the saying: "New is the enemy of the Good"
    When will this "Kindergarten" end.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 18 July 2013 07: 33
      +5
      Quote: Sergeant
      Until there is control

      Control what To begin with, how many "specialists" at any state-owned enterprise work with purchased diplomas and how many received their diplomas for bribes? Small things lead to big disasters.
      1. dustycat
        dustycat 18 July 2013 21: 14
        +2
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        To begin with, how many "specialists" at any state-owned enterprise work with purchased diplomas and how many received their diplomas for bribes? Small things lead to big disasters.


        And is there at least someone with senior diplomas in senior positions?
      2. poquello
        poquello 19 July 2013 01: 59
        +1
        "Let's start with how many" specialists "at any state enterprise work with purchased diplomas and how many received their diplomas for bribes?"

        Do you know many who now work with naturally purchased diplomas? I know a few - they have problems.
      3. Border k
        Border k 19 July 2013 11: 27
        0
        Soon, even very soon, the Soviet generation will leave, the Russian will come, and then when it starts ...
    2. igor67
      igor67 18 July 2013 07: 34
      19
      What does Korolyov have to do with it, it all depends on the attitude of people to their work, here we are assembling the NK 12MV engine, also sometimes because of the plan, the head of the shop wanted to quickly shove the engines out at the end of the month, and so the controllers and the control foreman (and this is in the Soviet times) they simply did not sign the acceptance sheet, it reached the point until the fuel system pipeline was one - yellow, not orange or another shade, the engine would not come out of the shop, I generally keep quiet about other units, the senior supervisor had three heart attacks, try to "fight" with the superiors
      1. Garrin
        Garrin 18 July 2013 09: 13
        +5
        Quote: igor67
        it came to until the fuel system pipeline is one - yellow, not orange or another shade

        Greetings, namesake hi
        With my own hands I launched 2 million under the press. photodiodes (monthly workshop program). Everyone was in good condition, the military representative rejected because of the curve of the inscription.
        1. igor67
          igor67 18 July 2013 10: 23
          +1
          Quote: Garrin
          Quote: igor67
          it came to until the fuel system pipeline is one - yellow, not orange or another shade

          Greetings, namesake hi
          With my own hands I launched 2 million under the press. photodiodes (monthly workshop program). Everyone was in good condition, the military representative rejected because of the curve of the inscription.

          Good morning. My friend, well, our rembase was a military base, starting with the deputy head of the workshop we all had officers, but the control masters and civilian civil servants, employees of the Soviet Army, it’s written in my work book .. So while the product went to the airport so many checks passed, I know for sure that not a single car fell through 40 years of repair due to the fault of our repair shop more than once he wrote that the engine came to us for repair with TU 95 NK 12th, and in the main gearbox a 200t hammer, assembly of the Kuibyshev plant, well, what control is there was still in Soviet times? Not what!
          1. leon-iv
            leon-iv 18 July 2013 11: 04
            +1
            And so the hammer in the gearbox and lay?
            In oil?
            1. igor67
              igor67 18 July 2013 11: 23
              +2
              Quote: leon-iv
              And so the hammer in the gearbox and lay?
              In oil?

              The engine from the aircraft, the hammer was in the gear case, it could not get into the moving parts, but the fact itself, after assembling the gear case, double check, the inspector and the master, then before joining the engine chassis again a visual inspection of the technician and controllers, and then docking, since the hammer there means no one did the check, and this is on the engine of a strategic aircraft
              1. leon-iv
                leon-iv 18 July 2013 11: 45
                +2
                For some reason I’m not surprised at all.
                Although all over the world the level of indifference is growing like an avalanche.
                1. igor67
                  igor67 18 July 2013 11: 50
                  +1
                  Quote: leon-iv
                  For some reason I’m not surprised at all.
                  Although all over the world the level of indifference is growing like an avalanche.

                  I don’t care at all, at our work last week the air-cooling wheel was unbalanced, a meter in diameter, we had to call a technician and that's it, they pulled the wheel and the engine until it broke, as a result, how many losses,
                  1. leon-iv
                    leon-iv 18 July 2013 11: 54
                    0
                    mdya ,,,, but was it prescribed in the regulations?
                  2. sq
                    sq 18 July 2013 13: 43
                    +6
                    Rather not indifference, but incompetence coupled with ambition. I face this all the time. Moreover, there are usually simply no guilty ones, or the one who demanded to fix the defect louder remains guilty. Now a quarter of our production is idle for the second day due to the fact that the "hereditary woodpeckers" (translate into "live Great Russian" do it yourself) did not check the tightening of the fastening bolts and, when the equipment was started, the stove broke. And the machine is bourgeois. And now RMU gets confused, the men have already run out of mats, but they can do it today - a question.
                    I have long come to the conclusion that most of the causes of accidents, poor-quality products and the like boil down to one thing: NON-COMPLIANCE WITH TECHNOLOGY.
        2. Simple
          Simple 18 July 2013 12: 50
          0
          Zitata: "I put 2 million photodiodes under the press with my own hands (the monthly program of the workshop). Everyone was in good condition, the military representative rejected because of the crooked inscription."


          Surovo treated the monthly program of the workshop.
          Such, newer, was possible only in CCCP (I mean, work for a month and not notice and then settle down without working out but get a salary at the end of the month).
          any stick can be bent and with a fool, generally break.
        3. bunta
          bunta 20 July 2013 09: 49
          0
          But was it not fate to sell on the market?
      2. Ascetic
        Ascetic 18 July 2013 11: 12
        +8
        Quote: igor67
        it all depends on the attitude of people to their work,


        Igor! That's just what I think people have nothing to do with it, it seems we don’t find out the true cause of the accident and a switchman in the form of a kid who incorrectly installed the DUS (a triple control operation and, moreover, an abnormal installation will simply lead to the sensor not working). The rocket was "spun" due to the fact that the remote control failed, and not because the angular acceleration was measured incorrectly. There was a process called TRACTION ECCENTRITY. It manifests itself due to the uneven flow of gases from the engine. A moment of force arises and the rocket begins to rotate around its axis. If the remote control works normally and evenly, then the moment arising due to the presence of the lifting force must compensate for the eccentricity moment at the initial stage of the start and the inclusion of the propulsion system. And then the angular velocity sensors come into operation, which provide data with the help of which the rocket is oriented in flight in pitch, yaw and rotation. From the proposed version it follows that if the angular acceleration was measured correctly, the rocket would stop "spinning" And the failed engine is not "in business" here. I don't know, it seems to me that the cause is confused with the effect and all this is done for a specific purpose- hide SYSTEM PROBLEMS of the industry, writing off everything to the "switchman"and everything will suit everyone and Popovkin will continue to "steer" the cuts and kickbacks in Roscosmos.
        The engine refused that the angular velocity was measured incorrectly. Like in a joke
        ... Vasily Ivanovich Chapaev says to the commanders: "A radio station has been installed on our armored train." Petka asks: "Vasily Ivanovich, is the radio on semiconductors or on lamps?" Vasily Ivanovich's answer: "For the stupid I repeat - the radio on the armored train."
        1. Simple
          Simple 18 July 2013 13: 07
          +1
          Zitata: "... hide the SYSTEM PROBLEMS of the industry by attributing everything to the" switchman "..."

          That's it: if the Question continues to come down to finding the most extreme, then the missiles will continue to fall (which I do not wish you).
        2. dustycat
          dustycat 18 July 2013 21: 31
          0
          And in my opinion, the power supply to the control system stupidly disappeared.
          When the detectors were turned upside down, it would soak from the detachment - there would be positive feedback, and the jets from the rudders would be clearly visible, deflected to the side of the block, accelerating the blockage, and they are invisible).
          And only then she began to waltz and collapse.
          Obviously, the stability control system stupidly turned off and did not even try to correct the situation - there were no jets from the rudders.
        3. bunta
          bunta 20 July 2013 00: 02
          +1
          Quote: Ascetic
          The rocket was "spun" due to the fact that the remote control failed, and not because the angular acceleration was incorrectly measured.


          Five points! Accept my respect and respect.
          And as for the sensors - people will go to waste, Wasserman will unsubscribe, the "guilty" will be punished ...
        4. bunta
          bunta 20 July 2013 09: 47
          0
          I wonder where Popovkin's statement about the pressure drop in the combustion chamber from 150 to 90 atm disappeared. And how can "incorrectly" connected CRS affect this fall?
      3. Justme
        Justme 18 July 2013 21: 45
        +2
        A lot still depends on the leader who sets the tone for the work.
        That's who I had the first Chief Designer (OKB Fakel) - yes, a guy from a serial plant, convenient for the ministry .. As an intellectual leader - zero, not familiar with the main topics of development ..
        Who was next - Director of NIIFI - long-lived Tsar, hero of local jokes .. I remember the abundance of the court governing servants and complex clan structures ..
        Now there is the General Director - "sonny", his deputy for science is also a thug, ..

        That is, the apparent rotting of the fish from the head ..
      4. Shumka
        Shumka 18 July 2013 22: 26
        +1
        Igor, thank you for being on the forum.
      5. poquello
        poquello 19 July 2013 02: 11
        +1
        Quote: igor67
        What does Korolyov have to do with it, it all depends on the attitude of people to their work, here we are assembling the NK 12MV engine, also sometimes because of the plan, the head of the shop wanted to quickly shove the engines out at the end of the month, and so the controllers and the control foreman (and this is in the Soviet times) they simply did not sign the acceptance sheet, it reached the point until the fuel system pipeline was one - yellow, not orange or another shade, the engine would not come out of the shop, I generally keep quiet about other units, the senior supervisor had three heart attacks, try to "fight" with the superiors


        This "try to fire the senior supervisor" worked, now there is a wild lawlessness of workers.
  6. omsbon
    omsbon 18 July 2013 07: 44
    +4
    Professionalism, quality, control, personal responsibility - these are the components of success in any business, and especially in the space industry!
  7. Master Taiga
    Master Taiga 18 July 2013 07: 50
    17



    “Every disaster has a first name, last name, and middle name.” Stalin.

    Although I do not like Stalin, it is difficult to disagree.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 18 July 2013 08: 02
      +8
      Quote: Taiga Master

      “Every disaster has a first name, last name, and middle name.” Stalin.

      Yes, here Stalin is right, but in our country there are bosses, but there are no responsible request
      1. Phoeniks
        Phoeniks 19 July 2013 15: 01
        0
        yes no there are responsible these are simple hard workers who get a penny they will be extreme. But not the bosses picking their nose all day and spitting on the ceiling.
    2. valokordin
      valokordin 18 July 2013 08: 29
      +9
      Quote: Taiga Master
      Although I do not like Stalin, it is difficult to disagree.

      Love the dead man, he lived, worked for the good of the whole state, and not for his own and another's pocket.
    3. Letterksi
      Letterksi 18 July 2013 11: 21
      0
      Yeah, about such a surname, the name and patronymic are just written in the article. The last polisher is to blame for everything or who turned the sensor over. According to the degraded precepts of Stalin, modern Russia (and not only) just lives
    4. Fox
      Fox 18 July 2013 20: 36
      +2
      Quote: Taiga Master

      Master Taiga


      Today, 07: 50




      “Every disaster has a first name, last name, and middle name.” Stalin

      this was said by Kaganovich, Minister of Railways for railway accidents.
  8. treskoed
    treskoed 18 July 2013 08: 08
    +7
    when installing equipment, a certain employee managed to confuse polarity - “minus” with “plus”

    Yes, we have many managers confused!
  9. morpogr
    morpogr 18 July 2013 08: 09
    +6
    To return military acceptance to the enterprises only multiple control and personal responsibility from the worker to the director. Bulava did not fly either, they put cameras in all the assembly areas and the marriage stopped. And it's time to pay people at the Roskosmos enterprises a decent salary.
    1. poquello
      poquello 19 July 2013 02: 19
      +2
      "To return to the enterprises military acceptance only multiple control and personal responsibility from the worker to the director. Bulava also did not fly, they put cameras at all assembly sites and the marriage ended. And it's time to pay people at Roscosmos enterprises a decent salary."

      Namely, and the manufacturing process should exclude the very possibility of making errors (if possible of course).
  10. andrey903
    andrey903 18 July 2013 08: 15
    +3
    It is unlikely that the sensors are duplicated, the systems are tested many times. So much has fallen, there will not be enough guys. The boys have surnames popovkin, ivanov
  11. Strashila
    Strashila 18 July 2013 08: 22
    +4
    Another senile delirium ... to be honest it’s even difficult to say. As popular wisdom says ... one not far away can put a hundred wise men in a dead end. There are no words, there are only punctuation marks. It seems that the set was from the blind’s artel (forgive me disabled) ... installer, foreman, tester, controller ... everything from there. In general, the technologist was not able to blame the parasite in the language of Braille for the technical process to be written. This doesn’t explain everything ... why the engine died.
    1. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 18 July 2013 11: 21
      +4
      Process technology? Errors in the manufacturing process occur among experienced bison who have worked for years and years, masters of their craft ... Error is inevitable. You can reduce the likelihood of an error, you cannot completely avoid it, so the process, most likely, has nothing to do with it.
      There is an explanation nonetheless. Guilty are those who did the monitoring program. Those who did, those who claimed and those who spent. If the statement is true that the sensor could not be tested for position during an electrical check - the author of the test in prison. All his bosses to the General there too! The installer's duty is to minimize errors. The responsibility of management is to eliminate errors! What is this test that does not test the main function?
      1. Max
        Max 18 July 2013 23: 31
        +1
        It is also strange, in principle, why DOSs are not checked in ground-based verification and pre-launch verification programs. DOSy generally serve to dampen oscillations - a kind of damper in control systems. At least in our management system it was like that.
        And so one conclusion will be made - they will introduce verification of DOSs into the pre-launch verification program and write a separate program for ground-based verification of DOSs. Such errors also occur.
  12. Reserve buildbat
    Reserve buildbat 18 July 2013 08: 31
    10
    hi
    I actually laughed when they said that the polarity was confused. I'm certainly not a rocket scientist, but aren't the contacts marked there? There should be an elementary "protection from the fool". It is annoying that when amerskih satellites are removed, everything works as expected, but with others ...
    Just sabotage paranoia begins ...
    I hope I'm wrong (regarding paranoia)
    1. ale-x
      ale-x 18 July 2013 09: 08
      +3
      You may be right about the sabotage account.
      1. Ascetic
        Ascetic 18 July 2013 12: 37
        +3
        Quote: Stroibat stock
        Just sabotage paranoia begins ...
        I hope I'm wrong (regarding paranoia)


        If you look at the problem a little wider than the technical component and the human factor, then we have far from the first case of accidents with GLONASS satellites. When GLONASS begins to fall twice in a row, this is no longer statistics. In December 2010, an accident occurred at the launch of Proton-M with three Glonass-M satellites. They fell into the Pacific Ocean. It turned out that the cause of the accident was the extra one and a half tons of fuel, which supposedly by mistake flooded into the booster block. A lot of money and the monopoly influence of large corporations in the SNA system are at stake here. So we ask ourselves who benefits? Although, if we take the objective statistics on Protons, then it is premature to speak precisely about the unreliability of these pH data.
        Even if we take the data of Pedevikiya, we get such a picture.
        out of 388 launches of the Proton LV of all generations, 341 are successful, 47 are emergency. Statistics of the reliability of the previous generation, which was launched during the heyday of the USSR space industry, Proton-K - 89,2%, 310 launches, 277 successful, 33 emergency. Reliability statistics for Proton-M taking into account the last launch - 88%, 75 launches, 66 successful, 9 emergency. out of 388 launches of the Proton LV of all generations, 341 are successful, 47 are emergency. Statistics of the reliability of the previous generation, which was launched during the heyday of the USSR space industry, Proton-K - 89,2%, 310 launches, 277 successfully, 33 emergency. Reliability statistics for Proton-M taking into account the last launch - 88%, 75 launches, 66 successful, 9 emergency.
        if we turn to the statistics of the space industry: Proton-K was launched 34 times 267 years before the first launch of Proton-M (7,85 launches per year), Proton-M was launched 12 times since the first launch of 75 years (6,25 launches per year )
        Of course, there is a drop in the number of launches and the percentage of accidents has increased, but it is premature to say that we do not have a space industry and that it was destroyed by the "damned capitalists". We have such a reliable groundwork left since the times of the USSR that even all effective managers at the behest from across the hill and for green grants are unable to completely destroy it.
        1. Justme
          Justme 18 July 2013 23: 00
          +1
          Man, statistics can be - and nothing .. - the old backlog is working .. it was done soundly ..
          But when I meet with my former colleagues at the NIIFI of my age and ask them
          - How are you ?
          They start to have a hysterical laugh ..
          But the situation is far from laughing ..
          What have I encountered in recent years - youth in the field of mathematics of dynamics - absolute zeros - a blank sheet of paper ..
          Analog electronics - what we designed on the 80s - it seems I was the last who owned it from the developers ..
          ..Now everyone does it on microprocessors - but when I saw the local circuits and topologies - there were gross errors in everything ..
        2. zetansky
          zetansky 21 July 2013 17: 35
          0
          if we take into account that this is not a single case, namely with Glonass satellites, it becomes a rather suspicious trend, if not alarming, when you hear the hasty conclusions and excuses of officials with the next similar situation, it remains to draw attention to a certain concealment of the reasons that remain in the shadow of real events that have been happening lately ...

          The Russian rocket loaded with "navigation satellites" exploded a few seconds after launch - again. Were they really navigation satellites? Or was there something else on board, and what do our friendly friends have to do with this? An unmanned Russian rocket exploded a few seconds after launch. On Tuesday, shortly after launching from a launch pad in the Republic of Kazakhstan, an unmanned Russian rocket veered off course and exploded in the sky. There were no direct reports of casualties. The Proton-M rocket carried on board three satellites for the global navigation satellite system of Russia. GLONASS is the Russian equivalent of the American global positioning system GPS. The rocket barely managed to take off from the Baikonur cosmodrome; the launch was broadcast live on television. A few seconds later, she changed course, caught fire and, turning with its bow, fell to the ground. In 2010, another Proton-M rocket with three satellites fell into the Pacific Ocean. The authorities have suspended further launches from the spaceport pending clarification of the cause of the explosion.

          This is not the first time that Russian satellites were disabled at launch - an obvious warning to the Russian establishment about the need to stop and abstain from now on. The plans they announced do not reflect their true intentions, which are to spy on drowning migrants, who are heading to the territory of Russia in the future. You cannot call clumsy Russians - in fact, they are technological wizards who launched Sputnik earlier than the United States in a space race. They are currently supplying the ISS with their spacecraft. How could such a dramatic failure ensue if the usual launch of communications satellites was carried out? That was a message! During the severe flooding that will occur during the Last Weeks and the Pole Shift, the bombing in desperation of running people is an abuse of power.
          http://www.zetatalk.com/russia/06jy2013.htm
        3. zetansky
          zetansky 21 July 2013 17: 36
          0
          Two communications satellites were lost in space after a Russian rocket failed to put them into orbit on Monday. Satellites, worth about $ 45 million, were designed to provide telecommunication services to Indonesian and Russian customers. They were launched by a Proton rocket with a Briz-M booster block from the Russian Baikonur cosmodrome in Kazakhstan. During the launch, the Breeze-M booster block started according to the schedule, but turned off after only seven seconds, instead of more than 18 minutes required to launch the satellites to the calculated trajectory. One of the lost satellites, called Telecom-3, was the first Russian satellite bought by Indonesia.

          Why were Russian satellites disabled before they could reach their orbit, although NASA's Curiosity rover was allowed to land on Mars? The answer lies in the benefits for the common man, unlike the elite. There are many plans for the Mars rover, but only one will be realized - the announcement of the discovery of life on Mars. Methane from rotting organic matter, bacteria and mold, and possibly even living worms in the soil. The elite is trying to force Obama to pay manned flights to Mars with U.S. taxpayer money, but this is unlikely to work given the current state of the economy and the pace of Earth changes. But it will contribute to the Awakening to an alien presence.

          Russia recently received a hit from the Council of Worlds for trying to explore Phobos, the satellite of Mars, where the Annunaki mined gold. The Annunaki and humanity are isolated from contact with each other, and the Russians know this. The spoiled communications satellite Telecom-3 was hardly intended to provide communications; it was intended to spy on desperate and drowning migrants on the way to the territory of Russia, so that it would be easier for Russia to deal with them. What is in the human mind - intentions, are known to us and other kind-hearted aliens. The clearly visible UFOs involved in disabling these spy satellites became a clear message for the Russians.
          http://www.zetatalk3.com/russia/11ag2012.htm
  13. Lomikus
    Lomikus 18 July 2013 08: 37
    -1
    Ordinary sabotage and sabotage, the State Department does not sleep! E. Fedorov: "Colonies are not supposed to have space ..."
  14. valokordin
    valokordin 18 July 2013 08: 37
    +7
    Everything that happened to Proton is not only a technical error, this system of bourgeois existence in our country, inevitable in the collapse of sustainable technology. (Systemic crisis) You can, of course, refer to the positive capitalist experience, but there personal responsibility worked out for decades, backed up materially . We have the same desire to grab as much as possible and faster and gouging. Glory to Gorbachev, the Yeltsinoids and their followers.
  15. Old Cynic
    Old Cynic 18 July 2013 08: 42
    +3
    “Every disaster has a first name, last name, and middle name.” Stalin.

    Although I do not like Stalin, it is difficult to disagree. [/ Quote]

    I apologize, but this phrase belongs to Lazar Moiseevich Kaganovich ...
  16. dojjdik
    dojjdik 18 July 2013 08: 49
    +2
    usual sabotage — how many US communications satellites work in the Global Positioning System — a global positioning system — it’s a lot, and here we are climbing with our GLONAS; and under the Queen and Stalin everything was classified; personnel change in all design bureaus and supervision of the FSB will then be the case
    1. max702
      max702 18 July 2013 14: 49
      +1
      A personnel change is good, but here is where to get them ... Personally, who do you work with? Will you go? Do you pull? And not a leader, but an assembler fitter or other technical specialist who works with his hands?
      1. dustycat
        dustycat 18 July 2013 21: 39
        +2
        I would go. By the collector.
        But I'm afraid the head of the assembly (and maybe the main "effective manager" of the enterprise) will quickly break his head.
        And people like me are allowed into the boss only by chance and due to a big misunderstanding.
        Builders from whom I accept objects become very boring when I see them.
        Because you still have to do it not according to the project, but as it should be done.
        1. Cpa
          Cpa 18 July 2013 23: 33
          +3
          I would go too, the locking diode would solder to this ill-fated sensor if the version is true and no one had guessed to do it before. But in general, I think what happened was sabotage at the hardware-software level! Carriers with the same loads fall too selectively, but to admit it is a shame Snowden!
  17. Old Cynic
    Old Cynic 18 July 2013 08: 51
    +9
    Yes, by the way ... I forgot to add in the previous comment:

    When I, back in Soviet times, studied at the glorious KVVIDKUS, I attended the 10th department. Department of ZAS. I studied a lot there, in particular - "Interior", T-230. So, for the telegraph communication unit, a signal inversion device was provided, for the conscript does not care how to stick a four-wire cable - focusing on the marking points or not ...
    Isn’t such options provided for in rocket science? I won’t believe it! Yes, in the end, disassemble the oldest computer - and there you can plug in the connector definitely, otherwise the guides will not let go. About the lamellas of the RAM, I generally keep quiet.
    Is it possible that in the missiles, according to the results of the investigation, everything is still being assembled with a "sledgehammer"? I DO NOT BELIEVE!
    1. Justme
      Justme 18 July 2013 21: 54
      +1
      Somewhere in the year 1983, I designed the engine for the satellite. There were special jumpers on all the connectors - and if you connected something wrong, the jumpers were not assembled into the circuit and the error was detected elementarily ..
    2. Max
      Max 18 July 2013 23: 42
      +1
      Isn’t such options provided for in rocket science?

      Yes, actually, there are not individual wires clinging, but foolproof connectors that are very, very difficult to connect wrong.
  18. vlbelugin
    vlbelugin 18 July 2013 08: 58
    10
    Your deeds are wonderful. The ammunition depot exploded - the soldier answered. The rocket fell - the worker is to blame. The rest are all white and fluffy. This is wrong.
  19. leon-iv
    leon-iv 18 July 2013 09: 01
    +3
    Who are they treating? plus and minus mixed up !!! 111 !!
    How did the unit bench test pass before installation?
    And how did they connect it to the common Bus with a Sledgehammer?
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 18 July 2013 09: 43
      +6
      Quote: leon-iv
      How did the unit bench test pass before installation?

      Probably, just like 100 points for the exam, get barely able to write. Or how to get a vehicle inspection ticket without leaving the garage wink
  20. Selevc
    Selevc 18 July 2013 09: 03
    +9
    In Russia (as well as in Ukraine) there is no effective system of punishment for those guilty of squandering and spoiling state property ... Hence, all the fuss - until there is no order - the rockets will fall !!! While grief reformers will not sit behind bars - the lawlessness will continue !!!

    The fall of the missiles very clearly demonstrates the degradation of Russia and the countries of the former USSR in the field of high technologies !!! How many beautiful words "Innovation", "Silicon Valley", "Rusnano" will not fly from the rostrum !!!

    Return the old Soviet system of acceptance and control and do not fuck out !!!
    1. Gato
      Gato 18 July 2013 10: 18
      +2
      Quote: Selevc
      In Russia (as well as in Ukraine) there is no effective system of punishment for those guilty of squandering and spoiling state property.

      Which is not surprising. They will not punish themselves!
  21. Furnace driver
    Furnace driver 18 July 2013 09: 09
    +1
    Quote: Selevc
    Start spinning things further? - God forbid, you will go to much larger burbots - no way ...
    I liked the comparative turnover, + for this
  22. Yun Klob
    Yun Klob 18 July 2013 09: 16
    +3
    With his hasty and ill-considered statement, the head of Roscosmos, Vladimir Popovkin, showed his complete unsuitability abroad. They would have already fired them abroad.
  23. koksalek
    koksalek 18 July 2013 09: 34
    +1
    And in the case of the Kremlin are not invited to earn extra money from the outside? Some sort of guest worker to adopt a couple of laws and then he himself will quietly leave
  24. viktor_ui
    viktor_ui 18 July 2013 10: 06
    +5
    I now have a growing suspicion turning into confidence ... but was there exactly that payload on all of these carriers that exploded, lost and drowned ??? We couldn’t have been there without a reason, like chickens who don’t peck money ... Popovkin, who are you, let's say goodbye to a careerist without brains.
    1. max702
      max702 18 July 2013 14: 58
      +3
      I agree with you, does GLONASS work at all? on all devices there is dubbing from the ZhPS ... is there any at all? "Was there a boy?"
  25. Jurkovs
    Jurkovs 18 July 2013 10: 12
    +2
    So after all, Popovkin was put on Roscosmos, so that such boys were not allowed close to the rocket. So that should answer Popovkin and Lopota.
    1. Bongo
      Bongo 18 July 2013 10: 31
      +7
      Popovkin should be driven away with a filthy broom, for theft and incompetence, when he twisted things with "stool", it was clear what he was.
      However, the country's leadership, he apparently satisfied.
  26. Prapor Afonya
    Prapor Afonya 18 July 2013 10: 20
    +1
    In our country, the extreme will always be found, and not the fact that this extreme will actually be guilty!
  27. andru_007
    andru_007 18 July 2013 10: 41
    0
    Quote: Canep
    Definitely a Proton was dropped, because there were (maybe) Glonas satellites on board

    Yes, it really is very similar to sabotage. I think GBShnikov enough work now ...
  28. not good
    not good 18 July 2013 11: 23
    0
    Another thing is surprising. Even in the electrical equipment of the car there is "foolproof", most of the connectors, sensors and devices are designed so that they can be connected and mounted in only one (correct) position. Is it really difficult for our engineers to foresee this problem at the development stage. Then the probability collector errors will be minimal and visual inspection is easier.
    1. Ivan_Ivanov
      Ivan_Ivanov 18 July 2013 12: 14
      -1
      Clever thought comes afterwards.
  29. sergey158-29
    sergey158-29 18 July 2013 11: 37
    +4
    The most correct decision would be to remove all the unfortunate leaders, where checks are being conducted on:

    1. Cases that overlap with the cases of "stooltkin"
    2. Not targeted spending
    3. Overpricing of objects / services

    Not to mention the fall of the ROCKET, explosions of WAREHOUSES, disruptions of the DELIVERY of weapons ... am
  30. Lankov Victor
    Lankov Victor 18 July 2013 11: 55
    0
    Reserve buildbat
    It is annoying that when the Amer satellites are launched, everything works as expected, but with others ...
    Dear, try to raise the statistics, and only then praise the "Shining city on the hill"
    PS Shuttle fell in the Union or still in the states?
    1. Reserve buildbat
      Reserve buildbat 18 July 2013 15: 08
      +2
      smile I had in mind the output of Amer satellites by our launch vehicles.
  31. Ivan_Ivanov
    Ivan_Ivanov 18 July 2013 12: 12
    -2
    In percentage terms, the number of unsuccessful launches in the USSR is now approximately the same. Now even a little less.

    So you don't have to shout "fucking all the polymers!" This is the business of the liberalists of the white tape. They get paid for it.
  32. krot00f
    krot00f 18 July 2013 12: 53
    +2
    The "boy" assembler is to blame for not being attentive, And that the rocket fell, of course, the leading designer, Any technologist familiar with the military industry will say All parts and assemblies must be installed unambiguously, that is, you can not mix up, do not fit, do not get together, confused-lack of design at the design level. Wiring diagrams are not monitored once or even twice, otherwise Prison is your home - "Lead Engineer". Of course, there is a problem with personnel, the age difference between employees reaches 50 years. And junior employees do not always have sufficient knowledge and experience, and whoever is in the design bureau for a penny cannot live on that salary. (Therefore, they construct from a fool.
    1. Ivan_Ivanov
      Ivan_Ivanov 18 July 2013 13: 04
      -5
      and who in KB is sitting for a penny, you can’t live on that salary.


      Hello my dear belolentochny friend. I recognized you by your impudent lies and provocation. You are stuck in the 90s. I will tell you a little secret. Now is the year 2013. And engineers at the enterprises of the rocket and space industry receive a good salary and social package. They have apartments, cottages, make repairs. My familiar design engineer, the head of the bureau at the RK-industry plant with several subordinates, drives a brand new Suzuki Grand Vitara. tongue
      1. Ivan_Ivanov
        Ivan_Ivanov 18 July 2013 17: 13
        -4
        And those who dislike me, that our engineers earn decent money? laughing
      2. Pilat2009
        Pilat2009 18 July 2013 20: 55
        +3
        Quote: Ivan_Ivanov
        My familiar design engineer, the head of the bureau at the RK-industry plant with several subordinates, drives a brand new Suzuki Grand Vitara.

        Yesterday I looked at the list of vacancies - engineer-designer from 20 ru
        To the enterprise of the RK industry
      3. Technocrat
        Technocrat 18 July 2013 22: 24
        +1
        I assure you in Russia, you can get a penny and drive executive cars, which is up to the salary of an engineer in the RK region ..... I will tell you a little secret in Samara it (salary) starts for a young ITR-VCA somewhere from 12-15 thousand a month and then if you're lucky. The main specials are usually pre - or after-retirement age.
        1. Ivan_Ivanov
          Ivan_Ivanov 19 July 2013 13: 55
          0
          My friend works as the head of one of the design bureaus with the number of subordinates of 7 people at the NPO Energia, the city of Korolev seems.
          He gets so much that he doesn’t even complain. Recently bought a new Suzuki Vitara. So do not la la. Well, a young ITR sheep gets at least $ 500 a month. Well, so this is a young one who still does not know how. And then in the first half of the year or year. Then the salary rises. And significantly.
  33. sergej30003
    sergej30003 18 July 2013 12: 57
    +1
    I think we need to look for a mole in this industry, failure statistics speak for themselves
  34. The comment was deleted.
  35. Southerner
    Southerner 18 July 2013 12: 58
    0
    Well, what can I say Professionals are Professionals
  36. saturn.mmm
    saturn.mmm 18 July 2013 13: 02
    +2
    In particular, the head of Roscosmos, Vladimir Popovkin, immediately after the tragedy with Proton, reported that the cause of the disaster was a premature start.
    From a premature start, they say, the Chinese methods are most effective.
    P.S. Fixed Popovkin.
  37. Andriuha077
    Andriuha077 18 July 2013 13: 13
    0
    Such devices are designed so that they are not placed in a different position.
    Suppose a school is lost, but not so much.
    Conclusion:
    The saboteur is the developer of this particular connection node.
  38. Makarov
    Makarov 18 July 2013 13: 29
    +1
    What other migrant workers? The son of some uncle from a factory or aunt works only on the pull, and not on the basis of knowledge and skills ... There are plenty of such ... I studied in parallel with an eccentric who told the commission how to weld a rotor to a graphite seal .. ..has been working at the aircraft factory ... full, just not all obvious.
  39. user
    user 18 July 2013 13: 49
    +3
    Everyone at the NGO PM named after Reshetnev wildly had fun when they announced that GLONASS would be launched by the end of the year, remember this promise. There was no satellite production, just a hint. The situation with the designers and engineers is quite funny, they are, in principle, only for them, or well beyond 50-55 or 22-27, and then the young people are invoked with big salaries (like the old people) + they solve the housing problem (first of all, it’s clear who gets there, before the mediocrity almost none). That is, the average most productive age is almost not found. Even if they overwhelm with DOLLARS, it takes time for the youth to gain experience and establish normal batch production of not only satellites, but Glonass navigators available in accuracy and cost (which is the main thing for universal use).
    Although it moves from place, but time, time, time. . .
  40. freedmen
    freedmen 18 July 2013 13: 50
    +3
    but parachutes gold - can
    steal - can
    your people spread rot - can
    and these "parachutists" - no way, at all !!!
    Well, I’ll put a vogo - is he a relative ?!
    for the article all 100 pros
  41. Horla
    Horla 18 July 2013 14: 02
    +5
    Before the start, a comprehensive check of all equipment is carried out and it would certainly detect a malfunction of the sensors, and it is simply impossible to install them upside down. If the sensors are all the same, they failed already at the start, the technician is out of business. Most likely, our smart space leaders made sensors for some pennies, and wrote off millions.
  42. cool.ya-nikola
    cool.ya-nikola 18 July 2013 14: 06
    +3
    Quote: leon-iv
    Who are they treating? plus and minus mixed up !!! 111 !!

    Here, here, and somehow everyone carefully avoids commenting on what everyone clearly saw on the video clips, namely, brown-brown emissions from running engines! And Stanislav was right three times, claiming that ..
    Quote: Ascetic
    The rocket was "spun" due to the fact that the remote control failed, and not because the angular acceleration was incorrectly measured.

    ..But some experts, watching the flight video, noticed: brown streaks are clearly visible in the flame that breaks out from the engines. Perhaps this is a leak of the amyl oxidizer that occurred when the pipeline ruptured.

    Well, and about punishment ... (sorry for not quite on the topic!). At present, the prosecutor's office is trying to ensure that Evgenia Vasilyeva (the damage varies from 3 to 6 billion rubles!) To reduce the walking time from three to two hours ... so, as we see, the punishments are "toughened", and possibly those responsible for the death of "Proton" will be punished in the form - "Make it look !!!" (And, after all, we know that there is no worse punishment than "pretend", it's better to "hang on a rack" or "wheel, with the subsequent beheading"! ...
  43. Takashi
    Takashi 18 July 2013 14: 32
    +1
    According to the TC, if the guy is guilty, they will deduct the salary for the month, lose the bonus and get fired.

    And the reason is probably one:
    loss of process control from manufacturing to assembly and testing.
    care of experienced personnel

    Now in the place of leaders often there are mediocrity for 30-40 years, which is driven only by ambition, profit, ... and the rest do not care.

    And the Unified State Exam is to blame for anything here, for such a time it simply could not yet bring up a new generation that would stand (which is already standing) at the "helm" of enterprises / departments / workshops / craftsmen
  44. ed65b
    ed65b 18 July 2013 14: 55
    +1
    Where are the FSB bodies? why do not they pierce people working in such an enterprise? If everything is in order and this is not a saboteur-spy then his boss who allowed the trainee such a responsible matter and did not check the performance of the cradle in full.
  45. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 18 July 2013 14: 56
    +2
    Somehow I happened to be on a business trip to one giant shipbuilding yard in St. Petersburg. I was struck by the fact that the once gigantic enterprise itself was split into a bunch of small firms, CJSC, OJSC, LLC, etc. Moreover, this was done in a very interesting and clever way. For example, all the warehouses, the former transport area, the tool shop, etc. are independent, owned by someone, firm. That is, in order to transport, for example, a pump to a warehouse, the shipyard needs to pay someone for the transportation and pay for the storage of this pump in the warehouse, etc. That is, money cleverly flows from the state order through such simple tricks to someone's pockets, increasing the cost of the state order and besides, it allows you to suck money without even producing anything. It even goes so far that the land under some workshops and warehouses, as well as some piers and piers, have been privatized by someone very cunning and the shipyard pays rent to these cunning ones. We have already formed, perfected to perfection the ability to legally "saw" money instead of the ability to earn it.
  46. ikir
    ikir 18 July 2013 15: 01
    +2
    How familiar it all is: a civilian liner fell - the dead pilots are to blame, the ship sank and there are no 220 people - call me, it happened, the Proton fell, what a coincidence again with the GLONASS satellites - Vasya Pupkin poked the wrong way with a screwdriver. In general, everything happens by itself, magically. Is there something wrong with the system? If everything is measured by money now, it is possible to invent incentives through loot, if our leaders cannot restore order by other methods.
  47. gregor6549
    gregor6549 18 July 2013 15: 14
    +1
    People, with Proton an error occurred among those from which it is very difficult to defend oneself. The angular sensors of the rocket orientation system were connected correctly, but ... deployed at 180 degrees relative to the desired position. I met with a similar problem 40 years ago on synchronic-tracking radar drives (SSP). It’s a trifle, but the work of thousands of people was ruined
  48. ikir
    ikir 18 July 2013 15: 35
    +1
    Quote: gregor6549
    mistake among those from which it is very difficult to defend

    Duc ... this ... you need to change the design to make it easier to defend yourself, or develop other control methods. These are all technical questions, quite manageable, if there is a will for this. In the meantime, we are being told tales from the category "say thank you that it was not even worse." Oh, thanks.
  49. ikir
    ikir 18 July 2013 15: 43
    +1
    Another childish question: for some reason it is very difficult to protect oneself from errors when launching our military or dual-use satellites. At the same time, the same Proton displays American and German satellites without problems. It is clear that all this happens by accident.
  50. Gomunkul
    Gomunkul 18 July 2013 15: 47
    +1
    Working at the beginning of the XNUMXs in one "office" connected with microelectronics, I had a conversation with the director of one enterprise connected with the defense industry. By the way, then some satellite also fell at launch (I won't process it word for word, but in short his story was about the following): The incident consisted in the following (I repeat this from the words of the interlocutor) in the banal greed of the contractor who, having received the state order, decided to save on costs and turned to Chinese manufacturers for a com. an offer for one expensive "detail". Having received an offer from the Chinese for this "detail", we decided to bargain with them (remembering that everything is cheap in China), in general, they bargained to the last and agreed on a ridiculous price, paid the money, received the goods, that's only when they assembled the product and began to test , it turned out that it was not working, they began to understand, it turned out that the Chinese had supplied them with a dummy, outwardly similar to a normal "detail", only the inside is empty. Then there was a scandal and the failure of the state order. hi
    1. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 18 July 2013 21: 02
      +2
      Quote: Gomunkul
      that the Chinese put a dummy for them

      It is not surprising. Our optics ordered a batch of printed circuit boards in China, because it is cheaper. As a result, 80% is non-standard. Payments received, money paid, complaints are not accepted