Military Review

At the plant named 61 Communards are going to produce full-set armored personnel carriers

13

Vladimir Berko, Director of the State Enterprise “Shipbuilding Plant named after 61 of the Commune”, considers it important to load capacities at the expense of the state defense order, providing the company with additional financial revenues.


“We convince the leadership of the Navy to determine our plant as the base for the repair of Ukrainian ships fleet. A meeting was held with the commander of the Navy, who is ready to solve this issue at the level of the Ministry of Defense, ”says the director of the enterprise.

V. Berko supports the course of Ukroboronprom on strengthening domestic production cooperation among Concern enterprises. According to him, the plant named after 61 of the Communard has good prospects in the process of implementing international export contracts for the production of armored vehicles.

“We manufacture in our own areas the hulls for the BTR-4. At the end of July, we are handing over the first corps to the Nikolaevsky BTR plant and in the future we are jointly planning to produce complete armored personnel carriers with the installation of the undercarriage, the power plant, and the transfer case. It is also about the modernization of the BTR-3, other armored personnel carriers, as well as the production of all-wheel drive armored car "Dozor-B".

V. Berko sees the prospect of the revival of the plant in the resumption of the construction of military and civil courts for foreign customers. According to him, at present negotiations with potential partners are complicated by the difficult financial and economic situation of the enterprise. However, measures are being taken that will allow the plant to master this direction in the future.

“The enterprise is certified under the Ukrainian register, and an extension for the Russian one is being prepared. A document is being developed on the renewal of ISO quality systems at the enterprise. The floating dock with a carrying capacity of about 7 thousand tons was repaired, for which the use document was received up to the year 2018. Together with the Ukroboronprom Group of Companies, work is underway to find potential buyers for the 1164 Project cruiser. Its implementation will allow the Concern to replenish the authorized capital and distribute funds to individual enterprises of the industry, including our Plant named after the Communist 61, ”says V. Berko.

According to him, the possibility of obtaining a license for the processing and preparation of ferrous and non-ferrous metals is being studied. In addition, the development of working design documentation for the modernization of tankers and dry cargo ships is being completed. Approximate start of work - September 2013.

V. Berko said that at present a lot of attention is paid to optimizing production, defining infrastructure, including social, necessary for the further development of the enterprise. According to him, the pontoon footbridge has already been repaired, 250 meters of bonded barriers have been completed, 100- and 25 ton floating cranes are being restored, the factory oxygen station has been restored and launched.
“As part of production optimization, we plan to use the enterprise’s territory more rationally, reducing the cost of maintaining it. Production facilities will be concentrated on the left bank. We see the right-bank territory of the plant as a promising platform for the development of joint ventures and investment projects. It is also planned to optimize the number of employees.
Much attention is paid to the company to educate their own staff.

“Our training center provides training and retraining in six areas. Now these are 18 occupations. But in general, we can cook for 79 professions. From September 2013, we plan to provide paid services and train specialists in the marine industry for other enterprises. We work together with the Nikolaev branch of a private higher educational institution “Institute of Postgraduate Education“ Odessa Maritime Training Center ”. They prepare seafarers - sailors, mechanics, boatswains, mechanics, etc .. And we are preparing workers for the specialty fleet - welders, gas cutters, slingers, crane operators, etc. We have the necessary training and production base, and we also provide the possibility of skilled employment.
Originator:
http://www.ukroboronprom.com.ua/
13 comments
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  1. experienced
    experienced 17 July 2013 09: 43 New
    +7
    Well, yes, but Ukraine has no money to place the state defense order. There are a lot of plans, but a pittance is dumb, everything is like in the joke "Eat something he will eat, but who will give him?"
    1. mga04
      mga04 17 July 2013 09: 49 New
      -8
      National Russian fun - count other people's money.
      1. fzr1000
        fzr1000 17 July 2013 09: 51 New
        +6
        Like you ...
        1. Protoucr
          Protoucr 18 July 2013 12: 29 New
          0
          No, we count our money - which we overpay for gas. After the trial - you will return them to us - as you return them to the Europeans.
      2. experienced
        experienced 17 July 2013 09: 54 New
        10
        Quote: mga04
        National Russian fun - count other people's money.

        This is Ukrainian fun, but I just stated a fact. Gazprom has already announced money for gas transit in 2014, so that Ukraine can pump gas into storage ...
        And it’s simply impossible to consider what is not hi
      3. Alekseev
        Alekseev 17 July 2013 11: 44 New
        +1
        Then the trouble is, as the cakesman starts to stitch the boots, and the shoemaker bakes the cakes.
        Plant 61 Communards seems to be building ships ...
        And then the armored cars ... request
        Direct competitor to Malyshev and the Kiev repair ...
        A vain attempt to survive for a huge enterprise.
        For the plant to live, however, ships must be built.
        And in order for the orders to be, to Ukrainian leaders, rooted in their desire to sit on two chairs and at the same time sleep more for themselves, we need to quit dealing with bullshit and pursue a policy of active and long-term integration with Russia, reviving a single machine-building complex.
      4. Geisenberg
        Geisenberg 17 July 2013 12: 58 New
        +1
        Quote: mga04
        National Russian fun - count other people's money.


        Pull the trigger already laughing
    2. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 17 July 2013 09: 49 New
      -3
      Plant named after 61 komunara, how to call that komunara laughing
      1. Retx
        Retx 17 July 2013 09: 53 New
        +7
        The name was given in memory of the 61 workers of the shipyard, who were shot by Denikins on the night of November 20, 1919.
        1. Akim
          Akim 17 July 2013 10: 23 New
          +2
          And no one is going to rename it. Neither him, nor the Leninskaya Kuznya plant in Kiev.
          1. Professor
            Professor 17 July 2013 11: 48 New
            +4
            Quote: Akim
            And no one is going to rename it. Neither him, nor the Leninskaya Kuznya plant in Kiev.

            It's a pity, the original name "Nikolaev Admiralty" sounds better. In general, this plant was considered poorly equipped and technologically backward even during the Soviet era. It is located in the center of the city, in addition, there are 2 more factories in Nikolaev: ChSZ (still capable of building aircraft carriers) and Ocean (one of the most modern in the USSR). IMHO "61st" plant needs to be closed and ChSZ saved.
            1. Ustian
              Ustian 17 July 2013 21: 06 New
              -1
              Give "Nikolayevskoe admiralty" instead of "Lenin's guznya" !!! Maybe the change of the name will make things go well. what
      2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Hug
      Hug 19 July 2013 01: 54 New
      0
      What are you happy about? Or maybe gloating?
  2. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 17 July 2013 09: 58 New
    0
    The main desire is to have something to produce, but I think they will find the money!
    1. Captain Vrungel
      Captain Vrungel 17 July 2013 10: 16 New
      +1
      The practically finished aircraft carrier Varyag was sold cheaper than scrap metal, now Ukraine is trying to sell scrap metal at the price of a cruiser. Start at least making pleasure boats. From Ishmael to Kerch, such rust works that you can't even scrap it. Cutting is more expensive. (And how they manage to get the sailing register documents if the hull is perennial rust under multi-layer paint).
      1. Kars
        Kars 17 July 2013 11: 50 New
        +1
        Quote: Captain Vrungel
        Almost finished aircraft carrier "Varyag" sold cheaper than scrap metal


        4 times more expensive than scrap metal.
        1. Captain Vrungel
          Captain Vrungel 17 July 2013 14: 22 New
          +1
          SW Kars! Less than 20 million for an aircraft carrier with a displacement before towing more than 24 thousand. tons, then the price of tons is less than $ 100. Sold cheaper than scrap metal. Tell me where the scrap metal is 25 dollars a ton. We will spin such a business. Akhmetov will be breathing heavily.
          1. Kars
            Kars 17 July 2013 14: 33 New
            +3
            Quote: Captain Vrungel
            SW Kars! Less than 20 million for an aircraft carrier with a displacement before towing more than 24 thousand. tons, then the price of tons is less than $ 100. Sold cheaper than scrap metal


            On scrap metal it cost 5 million dollars and that is a fact.

            the British sold like scrap metal for 2 million pounds.
            1. rolik
              rolik 17 July 2013 17: 04 New
              0
              Quote: Kars
              the British sold like scrap metal for 2 million pounds.

              The dollar against the British pound 0,6 today. Now count.
              1. Kars
                Kars 17 July 2013 17: 12 New
                +2
                Quote: rolik
                The dollar against the British pound 0,6 today. Now count.

                And yourself? And how much is it? 30 million dollars? 40?

                And let's remember what prices were for scrap metal in 1998 and what in 2011.
                In 1998, metal was not particularly priced, then it was heaped up.
  3. vostok1982
    vostok1982 17 July 2013 10: 23 New
    +4
    Youngsters in Nieolaev no longer believe that once the most complex ships, aircraft carriers, were built in their city. And after 20 years of independence they will not believe that ships were built at all.
  4. Akim
    Akim 17 July 2013 10: 25 New
    +2
    "Yuzhmash" in difficult years assembled trolleybuses, as well as the Kiev BTRZ. We got out and switched to the main products.
    1. seller trucks
      seller trucks 17 July 2013 11: 33 New
      0
      Quote: Akim
      "Yuzhmash" in difficult years assembled trolleybuses, as well as the Kiev BTRZ. We got out and switched to the main products.


      The shipyard is collecting armored personnel carriers, this could be a dream in a nightmare, and by the way, as far as I know, under construction, in Ukraine, apart from the four corvettes announced earlier, nothing will happen or am I wrong? Yes, and the overall quantitative composition of the Navy is planned to be brought to 7-8 units.
      1. Professor
        Professor 17 July 2013 11: 49 New
        +2
        Quote: seller trucks
        The shipyard collects armored personnel carriers, in a nightmare this could be a dream

        You shouldn’t be so. ChSZ in the days of the USSR which just did not collect, even Vogony for railway.
        1. seller trucks
          seller trucks 17 July 2013 12: 01 New
          -1
          and the launch of railway cars, in the future, armored personnel carriers will be carried out directly from the floating docks, do you have any idea of ​​the specifics of the enterprise?
      2. Akim
        Akim 17 July 2013 12: 03 New
        +1
        Quote: seller trucks
        as far as I know, to be built, in Ukraine, apart from the four corvettes announced earlier, nothing will happen or am I wrong?

        Another 6 missile boats, 2 MDK "Zubr" (replacement of large landing craft and SDK), POSSIBLE! one support ship, one tanker, one command ship and one frigate (but this is later), 10 armored boats (for the flotilla), 2 patrol ships (335 tons each) for border guards and 10 fast boats. (38 tons)
        As for Yuzhmash, trolleybuses do not resemble rockets either. But people need to constantly eat something. Shipbuilders in Nikolaev do not want to either. so that all the specialists fled to China.
        1. smiths xnumx
          smiths xnumx 17 July 2013 12: 24 New
          -1
          Dear Akim, sorry, what kind of missile boats are going to be built in Ukraine? For whom are they intended for the Naval Forces of Ukraine, especially since the last Ukrainian RCA, project 206 "Kakhovka", was withdrawn from the fleet in 2012, or for a foreign customer? Moreover, the State Program for Reforming and Development of the Armed Forces of Ukraine for 2013-2017 does not contain any missile boats and MDK, but there are plans to complete the project 58250 "Prince Vladimir" corvette and build 10 armored boats for the Danube. Yours faithfully! hi
          1. Akim
            Akim 17 July 2013 12: 35 New
            +1
            Quote: Kuznetsov 1977
            Dear Akim, sorry and what missile boats are going to build in Ukraine?


            I already gave an answer in the thread about "Impulse 301", but I will duplicate:
            I found information and visualization about the rocket boat "Lan". True, there are also imported weapons.
            TECH SPECS

            The main sizes:
            Length, maximum: 54,20 m
            Propeller draft: 3,40 m
            Width, maximum: 9,30 m
            Full displacement: 445 t

            Power plant and speed:
            Maximum speed: at least 32 knots.

            Cruising Range: 2000 miles (14 knots)

            Radio engineering means:
            Radar detection of surface and air targets
            Long-range target designation radar for URO
            AU radar control system
            Optoelectronic control system AU
            BIUS
            PTH system

            Armament:
            URO complex - 4x2 anti-ship missiles
            Ultra-short-range air defense systems
            Artillery 57 mm AU; 30-35 mm AU
            Jamming launchers

            To not know is not scary, but to draw conclusions on this is shameful.
            As for the frigate. they will begin to build it, as will fit the "Sagaidachny" camp. You have not voiced all the state program, although it does not matter. "Sapsan" was taken out of design, but it will be replaced, and the journalists do not know this yet. So they write minuscule, the main thing is to write.
            PS As for the boats. In the bay Kurennaya are located No. U153 "Priluki" and No. U155 "Pridneprovie
            1. smiths xnumx
              smiths xnumx 17 July 2013 13: 11 New
              0
              U-155 "Pridneprovye" in the Ukrainian Navy is positioned as a corvette, however, this does not change its functions of a large missile boat, about the U-153 "Priluki", sorry and really did not know. By the way, the issue of the armament composition of the Project 58520 corvette has been resolved, because according to information from the Internet, it looks like it will be a "hodgepodge" of the French Exocet, the Aster air defense system, the KA-27 helicopter and the Russian AU. Even in the picture you have presented, the boat is armed with the Swedish 57-mm Bofors gun and the American Harpoon anti-ship missile systems. with respect! hi
              1. Akim
                Akim 17 July 2013 13: 37 New
                +2
                Quote: Kuznetsov 1977
                "and American PU SCRC" Harpoon "

                These are "Exocets". I learned about the RK type "Doe" myself at the beginning of spring and then by accident. In some interview it was said: We are now developing domestic anti-ship missiles to replace French missiles on corvette and boats "Doe".
                Now, that before the armament of the corvette. I just don't know the fate of AU. Initially it was planned to be Italian 76 mm. Now about the replacement. RCC, as I said, will be their own. Luch promises to present short- and medium-range missile systems (vertical launch) next year, there is little information about torpedoes, but developments are underway. plan to install such devices on torpedo boats and the export corvette Mirage (1150 tons). The helicopter will be MSB-6. Instead of the 35-mm Bofors, at first they wanted to supply the AK-630 from decommissioned ships, but recently Impulse-2 offered its own 30-mm six-barreled gun. And rotary 6-barreled 12,7-mm Hephaestus machine guns are also there. What Yusch planned there is one thing. And about the boat. The next article says that the development of a 57-mm gun is underway.
                1. Akim
                  Akim 17 July 2013 13: 54 New
                  0
                  I forgot. I also don't know what will be installed instead of the MASS active protection system. The armored boats will be equipped with the Vara-2 KOEP
                  And the Termit anti-ship missile system should be changed. They are outdated somehow.
                  1. seller trucks
                    seller trucks 17 July 2013 16: 40 New
                    0
                    Quote: Akim
                    ASM "Termit" needs to be changed.


                    what, do you have something of your own?
                    1. Akim
                      Akim 17 July 2013 16: 56 New
                      +1
                      Quote: seller trucks
                      what, do you have something of your own?


                      Not yet. Russia also does not sell, but does sell to France, but in the 90s Ukraine still produced for Russia a half-X-35 missile. Apparently on its basis and build. In any case, there is a project of anti-ship missiles "Korshun"
                      1. seller trucks
                        seller trucks 17 July 2013 17: 36 New
                        0
                        Quote: Akim
                        ASM "Korshun"


                        again Akim, about some kind of UFO "Kite", what kind of animal is it?
                      2. Akim
                        Akim 17 July 2013 17: 58 New
                        0
                        Quote: seller trucks
                        what kind of beast is this?

                        How do I know? There will be food and there will be food.
                      3. seller trucks
                        seller trucks 17 July 2013 18: 06 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Akim
                        How do I know? There will be food and there will be food.


                        will it fly? or secret too?
                      4. Akim
                        Akim 17 July 2013 18: 17 New
                        0
                        Quote: seller trucks
                        will it fly? or secret too?

                        I look like the one who kicked this rocket in the ass? In general, in the West they laugh at us for being too open. Maybe Rogozin doesn't want to show "Armata" correctly.
      3. Captain Vrungel
        Captain Vrungel 17 July 2013 14: 39 New
        0
        SW Akim1 Bay on the North side is not Smoky, but Chicken, because there in the old days there were grain sheds and there was expanse for chickens. Now she is Engineering.
        1. Akim
          Akim 17 July 2013 16: 09 New
          0
          Quote: Captain Vrungel
          SW Akim1 Bay on the North side is not Smoked, but Chicken,

          Thanks for the amendment. I just thought that it was not translated correctly in Ukrainian (in Ukrainian it will be KURYACHA, and there it was written KURINA.
          Therefore, he himself took the initiative, as amended.
  5. seller trucks
    seller trucks 17 July 2013 14: 52 New
    0
    Quote: Akim
    Another 6 missile boats, 2 MDK "Zubr" (replacement of large landing craft and SDK), POSSIBLE! one support ship, one tanker, one command ship and one frigate (but this is later), 10 armored boats (for the flotilla), 2 patrol ships (335 tons each) for border guards and 10 fast boats. (38 tons)


    to promise does not mean to marry, for 22 years of inconspicuousness, only two ships, corvettes "Lutsk" and "Ternopil" were built and accepted into the Ukrainian Navy, at the expense of all of the above, God forbid, which I personally strongly doubt, at least from 4 - by frigates, for sure. With the naval aviation of Ukraine, as a non-detachable part of the Navy, as I understand it, the same is very sad:
    1 An-2T, 2 An-26, 4 Be-12 (three in conservation), 3 Ka-27, 3 Ka-29, 3 Mi-14PL, 1 Mi-14PS on this
    1. Akim
      Akim 17 July 2013 16: 04 New
      +1
      Quote: seller trucks
      for 22 years of stealth, only two ships, corvettes "Lutsk" and "Ternopil", were built and accepted into the Navy,

      In Russia, too, there was no golden age in these years. You just sailed earlier. Nowhere is it said that they will take it and immediately do it overnight. As for aviation. All Be-12 will be removed. It is known that naval aviation will be replenished with two patrol An-148-300 MP and one aircraft AWACS from the Swedish radar Ericsson ERIEYE (brand An-model is unknown).
      As for helicopters - I do not own more information than 4 MSB-6 corvettes.
      1. seller trucks
        seller trucks 17 July 2013 16: 20 New
        0
        Quote: Akim
        two patrol An-148-300 MPs and one AWACS aircraft from the Swedish radar Ericsson ERIEYE (brand An-model unknown).


        Akim, don’t think it’s hard to lay out proofs, it doesn’t mean that I don’t trust you, but the second time I read some kind of "passions"
        1. Akim
          Akim 17 July 2013 16: 44 New
          +1
          Quote: seller trucks
          this does not mean that I do not trust you, but this is the second time I read some "passions"

          Do not be offended by the links I will not share. I just know how to read. And collect information as a puzzle. About AWACS began to collect it almost a year ago after an interview:
          Director of SAAB Technologies Poland Sp. Told Defense Express about SAAB plans in Eastern Europe and, including Ukraine. z o. o Anders Berntsson ....
          ... According to our estimates, Ukraine needs from two to four AWACS aircraft.

          For example, Sweden now uses two such aircraft, although Sweden had six AWACS systems during the Cold War.

          Ukraine has vast experience in creating both radar and aviation equipment. Is it really necessary for Ukraine to acquire a foreign AWACS system? Can try to create it yourself?

          The most difficult and expensive step in creating an AEWS aviation system is the development of the radar itself. Although Ukraine produces a number of radars, Ukrainian enterprises have no experience in creating radars for airborne early warning systems. Therefore, this process can take a lot of money and time. It is also very difficult to independently integrate such a radar into an aviation platform. This is also a difficult process and requires specific knowledge, technologies, relevant experience. In particular, special certification of the same aircraft manufactured by Antonov is needed. Naturally, it is necessary to create special infrastructure, ground stations, a system of comprehensive support and maintenance of these systems. All this is very difficult to do “from scratch”. It is also necessary to recall the system of training specialists, simulators, etc. Yes, and the process of effective use of early warning systems, tactics of their application, obtaining high-quality information that can be used in the interests of the armed forces is a huge piece of work. It is very difficult to do it on your own, from scratch. Therefore,

          according to our estimates, the cooperation of SAAB and Ukraine in creating an early warning system based on the Erieye system is really an ideal solution for the Ukrainian side.

          - How close can such cooperation be?

          It is about the possibility of technology transfer and know-how to Ukrainian enterprises. That is, based on the Erieye system, SAAB and Ukrainian industry together can create a system that is needed exactly by the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Moreover, SAAB has experience in similar work with other countries, including the integration of the Erieye system on various types of aircraft. By the way, due to the fact that Antonov’s aircraft have a specific layout with an upper wing, this requires a separate study of the issue of radar placement. Since the wings themselves can cause certain interference or additional vibration to the radar.


          According to An-148-300MP, he began to assemble after the Indian exhibition Aero India 2013 (where the model was shown for the first time). The aircraft carries two anti-ship missiles and one torpedo. The flight margin is 12-14 hours.
          And about the plans here and there, interviews, videos. Somewhere in the Odessa video, Rear Admiral with ATV shared his plans.
          That there is Tymoshenko’s question on AWACs, but that’s a question for politicians.
      2. rolik
        rolik 17 July 2013 17: 11 New
        +1
        Quote: Akim
        . You just sailed earlier.

        So you think that we were just lucky ???? But after the partition, on the side of Ukraine there was such an economic potential, That it was necessary to profigachit and continue to profigachiv it now, it was necessary to manage to manage.
        We didn’t swim earlier, we just caught on earlier. And now it's still us and the blame recourse
        1. Akim
          Akim 17 July 2013 17: 24 New
          +1
          Quote: rolik
          oh do you think we were just lucky ????

          Not. This is a process of economic law. The period of stagnation is always followed by a period of economic recovery. In Ukraine, it also began in 2004 (13% of GDP), but the political factor intervened.
          1. rolik
            rolik 17 July 2013 17: 37 New
            0
            Quote: Akim
            . In Ukraine, it also began in 2004 (13% of GDP), but the political factor intervened.

            And there is no economy without politics. And not only here, but generally everywhere.
            God forbid, everything will settle down in Ukraine, they will cease to wave their fists in the Rada in Rada instead of normal work.
            1. seller trucks
              seller trucks 17 July 2013 18: 01 New
              +2
              Quote: rolik
              cease to wave fists in Parliament instead of normal work.


              Well, yes, Klitschko with his "Blow" will put things in order, I'll tell you one biblical parable:
              the wanderer on the side of the road found an old man lying, covered in wounds and ulcers, covered with a bunch of fat, devoured flies, the wanderer decided to relieve the old man's suffering and drove away the flies, "why" - asked the old man, "" young and hungry will fly in their place. "
    2. smiths xnumx
      smiths xnumx 17 July 2013 16: 37 New
      +3
      Unfortunately, the Navy is one of the weakest in the Black Sea:
      1 DEPL project 641
      1 frigate (Getman Sagaidachny) of project 11351 "Nereus" - the former PSKR "Kirov"
      3 MPK project 1124 (2-M, 1-P) "Lutsk", "Vinnitsa", Ternopil ")
      1 MRK project 1241 (Khmelnitsky)
      1 IPC project 1241.2 (Dnieper)
      1 RCA project 206 (Priluki)
      4 minesweepers (2 projects 266M, 1 project 1265, 1 project 1258), 1 KFOR of project 773, 1 KFOR of project 775.
      They are inferior to the Bulgarian Navy with their 3 Villingen frigates from the Exocet anti-ship missile system, 1 project 1159 and Romania
      So the Romanian Navy (the most probable enemy of the Ukrainian Navy) is capable of simultaneously firing 20 P-20 missiles (16 destroyers Maraseshti, 12 - 3 MRKs of project 1241), while the Naval Forces of Ukraine answer them only 6 (4-MRKs of project 1241, 2 RCA pr. 206). Speaking about diesel-electric submarines "Zaporozhye", one should not forget that the Romanians have in storage a diesel-electric submarine of project 877E ("Delfinul"), the same type of the Polish one (Ozhel), and the Polish one is in service, so they can get spare parts from the Russian embargo where ... In addition to diesel-electric submarines, a destroyer and 3 MRKs, the Romanians have 2 frigates (the former British Brodsward, fortunately without rocket armament) and 4 corvettes of their own construction, which can bring big problems to Zaporozhye. And that's not counting 3 torpedo boats and the Danube flotilla (3 monitors, 5 artillery and 12 patrol boats), which Ukraine simply has nothing to oppose, since the Soviet Danube flotilla has been safely scrapped, and the construction of armored boats is only planned. True, all this disgrace is slightly leveled by the superiority of Ukraine in the Air Force, but the Romanians do not sit still and look for combat aircraft (the same F-16), but the Ukrainian Air Force did not receive a single combat aircraft.
      1. Kars
        Kars 17 July 2013 16: 45 New
        +2
        Quote: Kuznetsov 1977
        Ak Navy of Romania (the most likely opponent of the Navy)

        What tasks does it have in principle in the Black Sea? World War II showed that there is nothing to catch. And Ukraine does not depend on sea supplies.
        Quote: Kuznetsov 1977
        and the Romanians do not sit still and look for military aircraft (the same F-16),

        They’ve been looking for them for 16 years and haven’t found them yet.
        Quote: Kuznetsov 1977
        but the Ukrainian Air Force did not receive a single combat aircraft

        but modernized quite a bit.
        1. smiths xnumx
          smiths xnumx 17 July 2013 16: 59 New
          0
          Dear Kars, if I am not mistaken, the territorial issues between Ukraine and Romania arose because of the Serpentine Island, which is located in the Black Sea. Fortunately, they were resolved peacefully, but if a conflict suddenly arises, then the Navy cannot do without. As for the modernization of aircraft by Ukraine, I can object to you that the Romanians, with the help of Israel, completely modernized their MiG-21 (Lancer) fleet.
          Quote: Kars
          but modernized quite a bit.

          Excuse me, how many airplanes and what types have Ukraine modernized?
          Yours! hi
          1. Kars
            Kars 17 July 2013 17: 02 New
            +4
            Quote: Kuznetsov 1977
            Dear Kars, if I’m not mistaken, the territorial issues between Ukraine and Romania have arisen over the Snake Island,

            At the same time, it is not necessary to breathe out into the sea. Or do you think bloody battles for the island? When it is more important to control the mouth of the Danube, what will the ground forces do better.

            In the Second World Fleet of the USSR was the most powerful what it gave?
            Quote: Kuznetsov 1977
            I can argue with you that the Romanians, with the help of Israel, have completely modernized their MiG-21 fleet (Lancer

            Not completely, and now there are 18 combat ready
            Quote: Kuznetsov 1977
            Excuse me, how many airplanes and what types have Ukraine modernized?

            MiG-29.SU-25, Su-27, MI-24, how much - for the last year about 20, but I don’t know.
      2. Akim
        Akim 17 July 2013 17: 03 New
        +1
        Quote: Kuznetsov 1977
        Unfortunately, the Navy is one of the weakest in the Black Sea

        You're right. But the Romanians because of this tomorrow will not go camping. They will not make tactical and operational influence on a possible conflict. The Black Sea in modern warfare is a puddle. This is still understood in the Second World War, and now even more so Even the Danube flotillas are more important.
        1. smiths xnumx
          smiths xnumx 17 July 2013 17: 28 New
          0
          Dear Akim, nevertheless, the Romanians have it (the Danube Flotilla), but Ukraine unfortunately does not.
          Quote: Kars
          Not completely, and now there are 18 combat ready

          According to the official website of the Romanian Air Force 35 MiG-21 LanceR A, 10 MiG-21 LanceR B and 20 MiG-21 LanceR C, as of 2011, the truth is the English Wikipedia says 36.
          As for your thesis that the Black Sea is a puddle, then you contradict yourself. Why, then, is Ukraine building so many ships
          Quote: Akim
          Another 6 missile boats, 2 MDK "Zubr" (replacement of large landing craft and SDK), POSSIBLE! one support ship, one tanker, one command ship and one frigate (but this is later), 10 armored boats (for the flotilla), 2 patrol ships (335 tons each) for border guards and 10 fast boats. (38 tons)

          and this is not counting the series of project 58250 corvettes, which 2016 units are planned to be built before 10, and the one with which stubbornness Ukraine put into operation its submarine. Respectfully! hi
          1. Kars
            Kars 17 July 2013 17: 35 New
            +2
            Quote: Kuznetsov 1977
            according to the official website of the Romanian Air Force 35 MiG-21 LanceR A, 10 MiG-21 LanceR B and 20 MiG-21 LanceR C, as of 2011, though the English Wikipedia speaks of 36.

            and 18 of them are in combat readiness
            Quote: Kuznetsov 1977
            As for your thesis that the Black Sea is a puddle, then you contradict yourself. Why, then, is Ukraine building so many ships

            what’s a lot? And when will it be built? And all these are mostly small ships to protect the coastal zone. And as you can see, they are building something to control the Danube. And the submarine for training the PLO and nothing more.
          2. Akim
            Akim 17 July 2013 17: 43 New
            +1
            Quote: Kuznetsov 1977
            Dear Akim, nevertheless, the Romanians have it (the Danube Flotilla), but Ukraine unfortunately does not.

            Already there, with headquarters in Odessa. The fact that she is still dead is another aspect. In the USSR, the Danube flotilla was sort of dismissed at 60, and under Yushche we were all ready to give it up.
            Quote: Kuznetsov 1977
            and this is not counting the series of project 58250 corvettes, which are planned to be built 2016 units by 10,

            We decided to build the 4th. Although I myself thought two years ago that four is only the first batch. But Ukraine will not pull out 10. Limited to missile boats (maybe even torpedo boats).
            No, it was necessary to pick up 6 decommissioned frigates from the USA for free in order to quickly. (And in 2008/09 they could).
            And 10 warships are not many. There are much more pennants in Ukraine now.
      3. seller trucks
        seller trucks 17 July 2013 17: 15 New
        0
        Quote: Kuznetsov 1977
        Unfortunately, the Navy is one of the weakest in the Black Sea:


        while the Russian fleet is based in Sevastopol, Ukraine is not in danger, by the way, I took your own path, comparing with the Romanian Navy, the picture for Ukraine is sad. Although, if you compare the air defense forces and aviation, everything is not so bad.
  • shark
    shark 17 July 2013 10: 45 New
    +1
    I won’t understand one thing. Russia doesn’t have enough shipbuilding capacities. Why not accommodate in Ukraine? At least the corps without weapons. And we are good for them
    1. ale-x
      ale-x 17 July 2013 10: 59 New
      0
      Politics...
    2. Akim
      Akim 17 July 2013 11: 10 New
      +1
      Quote: shark
      Why not accommodate in Ukraine? At least the corps without weapons. And we are good and they

      Civil ships are being built for Russia. Kherson recently handed over a tanker.
    3. evil hamster
      evil hamster 17 July 2013 11: 21 New
      0
      Because, in fact, 61 communards can’t build anything serious on time. And if our shipyards are part of USC and you can somehow manage them, then Nikolaev is the worst option for what happened to the Severnaya Verf and Baltzavod at Pugachev. You can order it, the only question is when and what will be built and for how much money.
      1. shark
        shark 17 July 2013 13: 09 New
        0
        I understand that there is no reason to rock our neighbor’s shipyards .. But to order a couple of corvettes for revitalization, and then discuss other projects .. And who knows, does Russia have similar plants on the Black Sea? Or plans for creation?
    4. rolik
      rolik 17 July 2013 17: 18 New
      0
      Quote: shark
      I won’t understand one thing. Russia lacks shipbuilding capacities

      If you put all the capacities in order, and especially at the Amur enterprise (which is now done after the stars from the president and the institution of a couple of criminal cases). That, in principle, it would be possible to place orders for merchant ships in Ukraine.
  • sop.ov
    sop.ov 17 July 2013 11: 36 New
    0
    Optimization in Ukrainian: I can’t reduce the engineering and technical staff, cut the hours of work for the pieceworkers and save money to create new leadership-low-response posts with lots of salaries, that there was someone to shout that now there is no one to work in production ....
  • AVDOTYAKARLOVNA
    AVDOTYAKARLOVNA 17 July 2013 12: 50 New
    -2
    It is not clear .. why Ukraine army ???? In the event of an intervention, they will lie down to the west and rejoice that they have finally joined NATO. A little more and Ukraine will crack into two parts .... the Poles will crush the West .. the tail will merge with Russia.
    1. shark
      shark 17 July 2013 13: 10 New
      0
      I don’t believe that the east will merge with Russia. The west of Ukraine without the eastern regions is full of kryndets .. So they just won’t let go.
  • seller trucks
    seller trucks 17 July 2013 17: 36 New
    +1
    error
  • dustycat
    dustycat 17 July 2013 20: 36 New
    0
    On the one hand, building clunkers on shipbuilding is sad ... MINUS.
    On the other hand, our fat zeros didn’t survive ... PLUS.
  • Protoucr
    Protoucr 18 July 2013 12: 31 New
    0
    Very correct decision.