Military Review

Roberto de Mattei: the world is shaking Christianophobia

128
Roberto de Mattei - a famous Catholic figure, historian, the other day promulgated an extensive article on the website "Correspondance Européenne", which immediately went around the entire western Internet. Reviews of the article appeared in RuNet. According to the scientist, the rights of Christians, as before, are violated, and this is happening "around the world." Everywhere - in the Middle East, in countries in Africa and Asia - there are "systematic" attacks on Christian communities. And the number of such attacks is increasing day by day.


Not so long ago, 27 May, Archbishop Silvano Tomazi (Vatican Permanent Observer to the UN), speaking in front of the Human Rights Council in Geneva, brought irrefutable evidence that more than 100.000 Christians die every year for one reason or another connected with their faith. They are killed.

Earlier, at 23 in May, at the OSCE conference, Austrian scholar Gudrun Kugler in her report gave examples of how the freedom of religion of Christians in Europe is limited.

Christians today cannot express their opinions — for example, against homosexuality, same-sex “marriages” registered by municipal officials, or abortions. And we are talking about those cases where believers do not refer to the Bible. The language of Christians is interpreted as "hostile."

2 June in the Italian newspaper “Corriere del Sera” Ernesto Galli della Loggia gave an accurate description of the situation. According to the journalist, the current "coup" in Europe is happening "silently." Della Loggia calls this happening a “revolution in mentality and collective morality,” which marks a “break with the past.” The author calls this gap the "anti-religious revolution." What it is? This revolution affects any religious factor - as such, regardless of the main religion, historically established in the country. And if we are talking about Europe, the journalist writes, the coup has essentially the appearance of an "anti-Christian revolution."

Galli della Loggia cites a number of examples, partly made up of detailed complaints published in the Avvenire newspaper (edition of the Italian Bishops Conference). Here are a few of his examples.

In Ireland, churches are forced to conduct same-sex ceremonies.

In Denmark, the parliament has already approved a law according to which the Evangelical Lutheran Church should enter into homosexual "marriages", despite the fact that a third of the ministers declared the law unconstitutional.

In England, the nurse was forbidden to wear a cross around his neck while serving. In the same country, a small printing house was held accountable for its refusal to publish sexually explicit material - commissioned by a gay magazine.

In France, according to the law, Christians do not have the right to publicly assert that sexual relations between people of the same sex are sin in accordance with their religion.

In Europe, a lot of things are being done to ban the so-called “discriminatory practices”. For example, in other schools, the word Christmas is prohibited and replaced by the “neutral” term “winter holiday”.

In the current year, writes Mattei, 1700 is celebrated for the Milanese Edict. One thousand seven hundred years ago, Emperor Constantine gave complete freedom to Christians - after three centuries of persecution. The Christian civilization of the West was born. And today, seventeen centuries after the "turning" of Constantine, the scientist notes, we are trying to protect the social space of Christianity from the attacks of new persecutors.

8 June, unidentified persons abused one of the main monuments of France - the Cathedral of Saints Peter and Paul in Nantes. This was reported by the channel "NTV" with reference to ITAR-TASS.

Hooligans spoiled the interior of the temple, causing damage to the choir and the altar. According to witnesses, the vandals outraged the statues. Inscriptions were made on the wall of the cathedral. Christian de Laverne, Prefect of the Department of the Atlantic Loire, says: “The inscriptions are mixed: several“ devil numbers ”are 666, Nazi slogans, inscriptions in the style of the“ Femen ”movement and human figures similar to those that use the movement against same-sex marriages”.

Earlier, on the night of June 7, unknown persons desecrated St. Stephen’s Cathedral in Limoges, the portal reports Regions.ru with reference to the "Week".

On the walls of the church, the vandals left inscriptions: “ecclesiastical right = Sharia”, “For Clement killed by brown plague” (a hint of a member of the radical leftist group Clement Merik killed by skinheads in Paris 5 June). The following inscription (“D. Venner, see you in hell”) is a reference to the recent suicide of the French writer Dominique Venner in the Cathedral of Notre-Dame de Paris, an opponent of homosexuals and same-sex “marriages”.

On May 31, unknown persons desecrated the Benedictine Temple of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin in Jerusalem. The attackers caused insulting graffiti and punctured the tires of parked cars, reports "Euronews".

"Lenta.ru" with reference to "Yediot Ahronot" cites the contents of some inscriptions (made in Hebrew): "Christians are monkeys" and "Christians are slaves." On the wall of the church was also written "tag mehir" (translated into Russian - "price tag"). This appeal is used by Israeli extremists who oppose the policies of the Israeli government, which they consider to be pro-Palestinian.

More than once there have been reports of the desecration and plundering of Christian churches in Syria - militants- “oppositionists”, who in the US say they are fighting for universal human values.

What are these values, we all know. A “same-sex” minority rules the ball in the French parliament, a carter from Washington, Russia for its “homophobia” and intolerance, organizes gay holidays at the CIA and the Pentagon and holds LGBT parades in London. Radical Islamism in Syria, which by no means supports all these same-sex people, nevertheless requires them weapons. Old John McCain, who was photographed on the Turkish-Syrian border with bearded kidnappers and called them “brave fighters”, shakes the US Senate with fiery speeches. Everything was mixed up in the Oblonskys' house! Probably Prokhanov is right when he said recently: “We are now ... are present at the process of creating a world dictatorship of homosexuals.”

Observed and commented on Oleg Chuvakin
- especially for topwar.ru
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  1. xetai9977
    xetai9977 15 July 2013 08: 45
    -13 qualifying.
    It is more likely not about Christianophobia, but about a protest against the imposition of a Western way of life, about excessive tolerance, resembling permissiveness, about the dictatorship of the minority over the majority.
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 15 July 2013 08: 59
      53
      Quote: xetai9977
      It’s rather not about Christianophobia, but about a protest against the imposition of a Western way of life


      It's about the persecution of Christ by homosexuals, and another bastard.
      1. xetai9977
        xetai9977 15 July 2013 09: 12
        20
        Any religion implies morality. I do not think that homosexuals, sodomists, etc. there is some kind of morality and respect for universal values ​​and religion, whether it be Christianity, Islam, or other foundations of civilization that have stood guard over the family for centuries.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 15 July 2013 09: 26
          28
          Quote: xetai9977
          I do not think that homosexuals, sodomists, etc. there is some kind of morality and respect for inhuman values ​​and religion,

          Nevertheless, in Europe, the construction of mosques is encouraged and try to arrange a run over Muslims there.
        2. Rakti-kali
          Rakti-kali 15 July 2013 09: 31
          19
          Quote: xetai9977
          Any religion implies morality. I do not think that homosexuals, sodomists, etc. there is some kind of morality and respect for universal values ​​and religion, whether it be Christianity, Islam, or other foundations of civilization that have stood guard over the family for centuries.

          A good occasion for Christians and Muslims to come forward with a united front against the Sodomites.
          1. Very old
            Very old 15 July 2013 10: 03
            19
            I am the son of a people professing Orthodoxy. But I bitterly note that Islam is more implacable against the Sodomites. It is not necessary to attract Muslims to allies in this matter, we must ourselves identify an unshakable position and adhere to it clearly, without compromises
            1. Dejavu
              Dejavu 15 July 2013 10: 17
              14
              Nothing like this. Orthodoxy is just as intolerant of such manifestations, the current is that we do not stone it with stones. :) In this regard, yes.
              1. Very old
                Very old 15 July 2013 18: 03
                0
                Gregory, I’m saying that we were raised differently. And my grandfather raised me correctly
            2. Mikhail3
              Mikhail3 15 July 2013 15: 27
              17
              Read Arabic poetry ... Very beautiful poetry. Now think about the fact that about 70% of these poems praise not a woman but ... a boy. No, Islam is simply better at hiding the obvious. And it consists in the fact that homosexual relationships among followers of Islam are practically the norm. Alas, the "intolerance of Islam" towards homosexuality is simply a lie.
              1. Very old
                Very old 15 July 2013 18: 10
                +1
                Debatable. Michael3,? ALL medieval poetry is permeated, from the Pyrenees to ... But it has never been perceived as the norm for you + And yet 1001 - for all time
        3. Vadivak
          Vadivak 15 July 2013 09: 37
          +2
          Quote: xetai9977
          Any religion implies morality


          Rauf, I apologize if I offended (I respect all monotheists with respect), but you yourself do not understand the topic of any religion
      2. experienced
        experienced 15 July 2013 09: 31
        +8
        Quote: Vadivak
        It's about the persecution of Christ by homosexuals, and another bastard.

        The latest tendency in the West is that this is an "initiative from above", there have already been many cases of dismissal due to the fact that the employee refused to remove the cross. Whether it is because of Islamization, it can purposefully "erode" the faith ... In Russia, on the contrary, all the "top" rushed to the church, that it is not an Orthodox holiday, then in churches there are "sold out" of those in power, though the priests themselves lower themselves below the plinth their acquisitive and boorish actions and the "show" that was staged around Pusek only contributed to the creation of "martyrs" of them. There (the West) is purposefully falling apart, and here (Russia) out of stupidity.
        1. Very old
          Very old 15 July 2013 10: 08
          +6
          I agree, Alexey. Moreover, “fashion” simply infuriates how many cynics believe “just in case”. Vera is not a fashionable dress. Here or - or, not otherwise
          1. Rosomaha67
            Rosomaha67 15 July 2013 12: 51
            +3
            ...... Well, why don't you see this as a revival of tradition. In Russia, at the end of the 19th, beginning of the 20th century, also half of the upper and middle classes did not observe all church rites and requirements (were not churched), but they considered themselves believers, and went to Sunday services. And on a holiday it is necessary that all the goodies were your way too. In the notorious USA, more than 80% consider themselves religious, but if they dribble deeper, then God only has them in words, but they go to church as scheduled. Calm down already, people come to church for various reasons, someone just doesn’t listen to the song, the Russian Orthodox Church doesn’t persecute anyone, observe the delights, the canons when visiting and don’t bother anyone, nobody will say a word to you, come see, find out .... ...
        2. nov_tech.vrn
          nov_tech.vrn 15 July 2013 12: 49
          +2
          Well, I will not consider questions of faith, not an expert, but "pusek" put the right thing in place, and show that we will not allow anyone to arrange lawlessness in our home, moral norms are not only the influence of religion, but also customs conditioned by the image life and existing relationships of our people, and their violation, or rather the introduction of rules that are unacceptable to our fellow citizens, is an attempt to weaken our society from the inside, by eroding the foundations of relationships. At one time, it was very successfully used against the USSR.
        3. Uncle
          Uncle 15 July 2013 14: 44
          +7
          Quote: seasoned
          how many cases of dismissal have already been due to the fact that the employee refused to remove the cross.

          It is good for a Christian to suffer for Christ. You carry the cross, already a confessor of the Faith of Christ.
    2. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 15 July 2013 09: 25
      11
      Quote: xetai9977
      It’s rather not about Christianophobia, but about a protest against the imposition of a Western lifestyle,

      The Western way of life is an image created by those who destroy Christianity by all means. They give rights to Muslims and at the same time they take them from Christians. I recommend you re-read the article. Perverts and Faith, things are not compatible!
    3. avt
      avt 15 July 2013 09: 45
      +7
      Quote: xetai9977
      It is more likely not about Christianophobia, but about a protest against the imposition of a Western way of life, about excessive tolerance, resembling permissiveness, about the dictatorship of the minority over the majority.

      You are wrong. Europe is being de-Christianized, and one of the ways is, under the guise of tolerance, creeping Islamization, and in its most dense, vicious version, which even in the east at that time, moderate rulers simply slaughtered without unnecessary theological disputes. By the way, prudently Islamists foreheads, in places living, not sourly confronted, against the background of the massacre - well, in Europe, well, just paradise, but this is still. Well, according to the article - everything is correct, the renaissance of the "Renaissance" with its satanic sects, by the way, if you look carefully, you will find out that Comrade Bruno, who Giordano, was burned not only, even not so much, for his scientific research laughing .
      1. Uncle
        Uncle 15 July 2013 14: 50
        +2
        Quote: avt
        Europe is dechristianized

        You cannot "de-Christianize" a person. You can only independently despise Christ and his commandments. And the rampant homosexuality comes from the filing of the Roman Catholic Church. And the roots of this in papism, that is, in the infallibility of the popes. In Russia, during the years of the revolution, the people also renounced Christ en masse, priests were killed, churches were blown up. But then they suffered from the Red Terror, Holodomor and other things. And Europe will face trials, such as persecution by Muslims.
        1. lexe
          lexe 15 July 2013 15: 15
          +1
          In Russia during the years of the revolution, the people also massively renounced Christ,

          I don’t quite agree with you about mass character. Rather, it is necessary to talk about the mass character and scale of misinformation of the Soviet agitation industry. The fight was fierce and they simply did not refuse the faith of their ancestors. In the churches, the priests directly told their flock that the end of the world had come. Someone of these words, of course went into prayers and withdrew from the struggle, and someone took up the ax, seeing what was happening in the nunneries by adherents of the new faith. And then no one kept a strict calculation of the population and also decreased ...
        2. avt
          avt 15 July 2013 16: 54
          +3
          Quote: Uncle
          You cannot "de-Christianize" a person. You can only independently despise Christ and his commandments.

          As much as possible.
          Quote: Uncle
          In Russia during the years of the revolution, the people also massively renounced Christ,

          Here is an example and give it yourself, but if it is done quickly, urgently and with the elimination of those who are especially resistant. Well, it is possible as in geyvrop - gently so, with laughter and jokes through consumption and enjoyment.
      2. Draz
        Draz 15 July 2013 20: 03
        +5
        And if you look even better, you can find that Reagan legalized the Church of Satan and the Pentagon has "priests" who can carry out funeral rites and so on, think for yourself.

        I myself did not strongly believe in this, until on vacation I met with an American working in the red cross. A smart guy who knows about the Eastern Front, about Gagarin (delighted with Soviet science), thinks it stupid that since the Amreks landed on the moon, they automatically won the space race. To my question about Satanism, he reluctantly confirmed, saying the following: "It was an act on the right to religion, it is forbidden to scold them, etc., in the USA, in general, you can do whatever you want untill you harm anyone" (c)
    4. AVV
      AVV 15 July 2013 10: 26
      11
      Yes, a model of such an attitude towards Christianity was given by Europe itself in the same Kosovo !!! Whom they supported when they destroyed, destroyed Orthodox churches! For what they fought, they ran into it !!!
      1. Ruslan_F38
        Ruslan_F38 15 July 2013 11: 09
        10
        That's exactly what they fought for and ran into! In general, what is happening in the modern world resembles the end of the world. Barbarians and Satanists win. The Catholic Church in the world has so discredited itself and is no longer authoritative for parishioners that disappointed people accept Islam, which is not the best alternative to Christianity, because it is too young and uncontrollable due to the low level of development of most believers (let Muslims not be offended by me, but this is a fact - there are very few educated Muslims) and therefore are strongly influenced by Wahhabi savages, Satanists, radicals and other barbarians.
        Probably the Russian Orthodox Church, remained the only place where God still lives, where true human values ​​live. Russia and Russians are the only salvation for this world, there will be no Russia - the world will end - will be ruled by savages and barbarians.
        1. Uncle
          Uncle 15 July 2013 14: 55
          +5
          Quote: Ruslan_F38
          Probably the Russian Orthodox Church, remained the only place where God still lives, where true human values ​​live. Russia and Russians are the only salvation for this world, there will be no Russia - the world will end - will be ruled by savages and barbarians.

          You are right, ordinary Catholics regard Russia as the last frontier in front of Satanists. By the way, homosexuals are pure Satanists. They have a popular "dance of Salome", the daughter of Herodias, at whose request John the Baptist was beheaded. Performed by a man in a woman's dress.
    5. Apologet.Ru
      Apologet.Ru 15 July 2013 12: 13
      +7
      hi

      From the West, everything is more distinctly drawn by the smell of sulfur ...

      Data -
      In the UK church congregations also close. And where recently believers turned to God, shopping centers and even bars open.
      The Government of the United Kingdom supported the ban on British workers and employees for openly wearing crosses, justifying the dismissal for such an act. For that, this same government allowed to sell invented in Switzerland, children's condoms. In Britain, they also took care of the health of young girls. Oxfordshire students were given the opportunity ... to order emergency contraception via SMS messages. Tablets are given to girls by school nurses. Use such a modern service can schoolgirls who have reached 11 years. This program was developed by the local administration and the regional branch of the Foundation for First Aid.
      In the major cities of the Netherlands, such as Amsterdam, Rotterdam, The Hague, Utrecht and others, coffee shops have been opened that have official permission to sell marijuana, hallucinogenic mushrooms and other light drugs. The organization of licensed coffee shops was designed to protect soft drug users from addicts who are addicted to hard drugs. But workers at rehabilitation centers claim that more than 90% of the heroin users who have undergone treatment have developed their addiction, starting with regular smoking weed.
      In 2011 year on the Dutch television channel BNN in a television show called "Proefkonijnen" host Denis Storm and Valerio Zeno ate each other's meat. Before the transfer, he underwent an operation during which they cut out a small piece of meat (muscle tissue), which, then, they prepared and ate it on the transfer.
      In Norway the level of morality fell below all possible boundaries. At the parades of sexual perverts there are children who are holding banners promoting homosexuality and same-sex unions. Parades of sodomites in this country have become public, citywide holidays.
      Bodies of juvenile justice fully control the behavior of parents and children. The main thesis of the authorities - the biological parents should no longer have priority in the education of their own children. Parents can be punished up to the withdrawal of the child even treat children with sweets. Number of sweet must be strictly controlled.
      In Norway, it is forbidden by law to cry, tears are a sign of emotional instability. The tears of the mother of children who have lost their children due to juvenile justice will be proof in court that she is unstable or insane and will only aggravate the “guilt”.
      In the Swedish capital Stockholm 90% of the dead are cremated, 45% of the urns are not taken away by relatives. The vast majority of funerals are held "without ceremony." The crematorium workers do not know whose remains are specifically burned, because on the ballot boxes there is only an identification number. For economic reasons, the energy received from the burned bins is optionally included in the heating of your own home or in the heating system of the city.
      In 2010, in Sodermalm, a district of Stockholm, the staff of the institution replaced the children “he” and “she” in the appeal to the children, respectively “han” and “hon”, with the asexual word “hen”, which is not in the classical language , but there is in use in homosexuals. According to the Swedish Association for Sexual Equality (RFSL), in Sweden more than 40 thousand children have parents (or one parent) - homosexuals.
      In 1998 in Sweden sensation was the exhibition of the photographer Elizabeth Olson, depicting Christ and his apostles homosexuals. The exhibition was very popular, of course, primarily among homosexuals. One of the places where it was held, was the chair of the Lutheran Church.
      1. Apologet.Ru
        Apologet.Ru 15 July 2013 12: 22
        +9
        In the 2003-2004 years after the speech of Pastor Oke Green, who in his sermon condemned homosexual relations, calling them sinful. For "disrespect for the sexual minority", the pastor was convicted by the Court of First Instance for a month of imprisonment.

        In 2009, the open-minded lesbian Eva Brunne was elected as bishop of the Stockholm diocese.

        The juvenile system in Western Europe has become a punitive organ destroying families. For example, in Sweden each year an average of 12 thousand children are taken from their parents. The pretext may be “mistakes in education”, “mental underdevelopment of parents” and even “excessive custody”.
        Since 1979 years here there is an absolute ban on corporal punishment of children. Parents can not give the child away with a slap, pull the ear or raise it voice. For the punishment of the child threatens to 10 years in prison. Even kindergarten children are in detail informed about their rights and the need to inform the police about such incidents. And they use it. It takes the side of the child in conflict of interest between the interest of the child and the parent state.

        In Denmark, along with ordinary public houses, where everyone can satisfy their sexual fantasies, there are public houses with animals, where people pay for S.ex with horses and other animals.
        This type of service is also has become widespread in countries such as Norway, Germany, Holland and Sweden. Until any excesses occur, and until neither people nor animals suffer from this, the governments of these countries will not impose a ban on the provision of such services ...

        Rev. Anthony the Great said: "The time is coming when people will go mad, and if they see who they are not mad, they will rise up on him and say:" You are crazy, "because he is not like them."
    6. aleks77
      aleks77 16 July 2013 01: 03
      0
      Just the desecration of churches, excessive tolerance that smacks of permissiveness, the dictates of a minority over the majority, caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad, harsh imposition of sexual perversions, suppression of attempts to defend one's dignity and self-esteem, are events of the same order
  2. omsbon
    omsbon 15 July 2013 08: 47
    +6
    gives the content of some inscriptions (made in Hebrew): "Christians are monkeys" and "Christians are slaves." On the wall of the church was also written "tag mehir" (translated into Russian - "price tag"). This call is used by Israeli extremists.

    Well, where without the flimsy owners of the pace. They are, as always, ahead for the time being, for the time being!
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 15 July 2013 09: 28
      +9
      "Christians are monkeys" and "Christians are slaves."
      Quote: omsbon
      Well, where without the flimsy owners of the pace.

      If you paid attention, then on our website similar expressions are used, just not Jews at all, but some "our" Slavs. Foaming at the mouth, spitting on faith on any occasion and without it.
      1. omsbon
        omsbon 15 July 2013 09: 46
        0
        Dear Alexander! There are many on the site "our" Slavs know Hebrew? I’m sure not.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 15 July 2013 09: 56
          +4
          Quote: omsbon
          Are there many "our" Slavs who know Hebrew on the site?

          Dear Andrey! Until recently, there were a lot of "ours" on the site, and there were even more spits. Knowing or not knowing Hebrew didn't matter. What mattered was that everything connected with Jesus took place on the territory of modern Israel. into this essence for some "our"
        2. Very old
          Very old 15 July 2013 10: 16
          +1
          It would not be bad to remember that in Israel "a quarter of our former people"
      2. Uncle
        Uncle 15 July 2013 14: 58
        +1
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        If you paid attention, then on our website similar expressions are used, just not Jews at all, but some "our" Slavs.

        Descendants of the destroyers of temples, murderers of the clergy, guardians, informers. It is clear from what tree these "apples" are.
    2. Rosomaha67
      Rosomaha67 15 July 2013 12: 55
      0
      ....... and then they will say that they are not guilty, like they themselves came ....... that's where the legs of anti-simitism grow .......
    3. Yarosvet
      Yarosvet 15 July 2013 13: 41
      -1
      Quote: omsbon
      Well, where without the flimsy owners of the pace. They are, as always, ahead for the time being, for the time being!
  3. nokki
    nokki 15 July 2013 08: 49
    15
    That's right, Oleg! Western degenerates attack on all fronts! Christianity, as a haven of people who seek to live in good conscience, humanly, is one of the main obstacles to the path of these mutant-obsessed mutants. No matter how we relate to religion, but it is a fierce opponent of the pederastic horde.

    All honest and normal people, whether they are atheists or believers, must rally against this degenerative Chuiya!
    1. does it
      does it 15 July 2013 16: 27
      0
      Quote: nokki
      Christianity, as the refuge of people who strive to live a conscience, humanly,

      So I remembered how conscientious Christians-crusaders robbed Constantinople crying and for 50 years they took out all the values ​​from him. He remembered the baptism of Russia. crying where people were forcefully driven into the water for baptism, the anti-Christian uprisings in Russia during its Christianization that were brutally suppressed were remembered crying conscientious chopping off fingers, blindness, deprivation of property with subsequent exile to Siberia, and so on. The Vatican admitted that he is sick with pedophilia, but they cannot do anything about it. In our country, on the contrary, the ROC tries to hush up all the scandals concerning it. "To live by conscience" each person interprets this phrase in its own way. It all depends on the internal moral qualities and values ​​of the person himself and religion here is far from playing the first role. hi
      1. Ruslan_F38
        Ruslan_F38 15 July 2013 17: 12
        +2
        [quote = kvirit] "To live by conscience" each person interprets this phrase differently. It all depends on the internal moral qualities and values ​​of the person himself and religion here plays far from the first role. [/ Quote

        "Explanatory Dictionary of the Living Great Russian Language by V. I. Dal: CONSCIENCE - moral consciousness, moral intuition or feeling in a person; inner consciousness of good and evil; secret of the soul, in which the approval or condemnation of each deed is echoed; the ability to recognize the quality of an act; a feeling that prompts to truth and good, turning away from lies and evil; involuntary love for good and truth; inborn truth, in varying degrees of development. " - how else can you interpret this phrase? Fundamental values ​​are eternal and unshakable, they cannot be "adjusted" for yourself, for your interests!
        You can believe in God or not believe it, but to deny that the commandments and norms offered by the Russian Orthodox Church are the very foundation necessary to live correctly, humanly, honestly, is simply stupid! Society, people, the person who finally denies these values, this basis of life, is doomed to become a non-human, non-human.
        Living based on these values ​​is a matter of the survival of Russia and the Russian people, there is no other way.
        1. does it
          does it 15 July 2013 17: 54
          +1
          Quote: Ruslan_F38
          You can believe in God or not believe it, but to deny that the commandments and norms offered by the Russian Orthodox Church are the very foundation necessary to live correctly, humanly, honestly, is simply stupid! Society, people, the person who finally denies these values, this basis of life, is doomed to become a non-human, non-human.

          If I don’t suffer from the Orthodoxy of the brain and all religion is opium for me for the people and if I treat everything critically while remaining sane. So I am a non-human and non-human? Inside I can soon feel Mother Russia again flooded with church obscurantism.
          1. Ruslan_F38
            Ruslan_F38 15 July 2013 19: 10
            0
            Quote: kvirit
            If I don’t suffer from the Orthodoxy of the brain and all religion is opium for me for the people and if I treat everything critically while remaining sane. So I am a non-human and non-human? Inside I can soon feel Mother Russia again flooded with church obscurantism. does it

            Once again, for those who cannot read, or who are unable to penetrate, or who do not want to penetrate, or argue for the sake of argument, or ...:
            "You can believe in God or not, but deny that the commandments and norms offered by the Russian Orthodox Church are the very foundation necessary to live correctly, humanly, according to conscience - it is simply stupid! Society, people, a person who finally denies these values, this basis of life - is doomed to turn into a non-human, non-human. "

            I don’t make you believe in God, I’m talking about values, eternal values ​​... aw, turn on the brain and read carefully!
            1. does it
              does it 15 July 2013 20: 04
              0
              Quote: Ruslan_F38
              I don’t make you believe in God, I’m talking about values, eternal values ​​... aw, turn on the brain and read carefully!

              I understand you already.
            2. Normal
              Normal 15 July 2013 22: 08
              -1
              Quote: Ruslan_F38
              "You can believe in God or not believe, but to deny that the commandments and norms offered by the Russian Orthodox Church are the very foundation necessary to live correctly, humanly, according to conscience - it is simply stupid!

              It is also foolish to believe that the ministers of the Russian Orthodox Church follow the commandments and norms that they preach. I know, I know, "the family has its black sheep", "a spoonful of ointments" and so on and so forth. But when these commandments are demonstratively not followed by the highest hierarchs of the Russian Orthodox Church, what is there to talk about?
              It is foolish to follow a shepherd who does not follow the rules and commandments that he preaches.
              1. Ruslan_F38
                Ruslan_F38 15 July 2013 22: 36
                0
                Quote: Normal
                Quote: Ruslan_F38
                "You can believe in God or not believe, but to deny that the commandments and norms offered by the Russian Orthodox Church are the very foundation necessary to live correctly, humanly, according to conscience - it is simply stupid!

                It is also foolish to believe that the ministers of the Russian Orthodox Church follow the commandments and norms that they preach. I know, I know, "the family has its black sheep", "a spoonful of ointments" and so on and so forth. But when these commandments are demonstratively not followed by the highest hierarchs of the Russian Orthodox Church, what is there to talk about?
                It is foolish to follow a shepherd who does not follow the rules and commandments that he preaches.


                Where do you get such impenetrable? With a swamp or something? Liberals? I am not going to discuss and evaluate clergy. I said what I said - read carefully.
                1. Normal
                  Normal 16 July 2013 08: 34
                  0
                  Quote: Ruslan_F38
                  Where do you get such impenetrable?

                  The general goes along the line of brave soldiers. At the very end of the line is a completely worn-out soldier of a very unpresentable kind.
                  “Where are you from, soldier?” The general asks with pity and bewilderment.
                  “That's where everything comes from, Comrade General!” - the soldier reports bravely.

                  Quote: Ruslan_F38
                  With a swamp or something? Liberals?

                  Well, where else?
                  "Well, we are, well, we are homosexuals.
                  Addicts, fascists, punks.
                  As one socially dangerous.
                  And for each crying prison.
                  We are foam in a muddy stream.
                  Notorious new wave.
                  So newspapers write about it.
                  Newspapers are always right.

                  But this is rock and roll. "

                  Gr. "Alice"

                  Quote: Ruslan_F38
                  I am not going to discuss and evaluate clergy.


                  Well, of course! So all the stubborn answer. You are going to give marks to everyone who is not with you and are afraid to even think about who is above you.
                  1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Very old
      Very old 15 July 2013 19: 52
      0
      Both the believer and the unbeliever will agree with you. This is tolerance. Good, GENA
  4. sashka
    sashka 15 July 2013 08: 50
    -14 qualifying.
    Since ancient times, Russia has had its own religion and its "own" gods. Christianity is not our path; it is the imposition of a Jewish and gay European outlook on life. But We are Russians with a millennial history, and who are Jews or Catholics for us or whoever else is there .. We are on our own .. Find "your" God in the SOUL, Genes have not been canceled .. We are LANGUAGES. And I am proud that I am not baptized .. Then look at this World through the eyes of our ANCESTORS and you will see all the absurdity of Words and Deeds .. Do you want to be Russian, be .. Otherwise, you are a gay European ..
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 15 July 2013 09: 04
      16
      Quote: Sasha
      Christianity is not our way


      You write for yourself like that - not my way, worship your gods, cattle breeding, rain, thunder and other natural phenomena studied by ignorant Christians.

      Quote: Sasha
      . Want to be Russian, be .. Otherwise you are a gay man ..

      Have you read the article? It seems that just to blur in a puddle.
      1. sashka
        sashka 15 July 2013 14: 23
        -1
        Quote: Vadivak
        Christianity is not our way

        But this is really not our way. Like it or not .. We have nothing to do with homosexuals .. Or are you against ???
        1. consul
          consul 15 July 2013 17: 15
          +1
          Quote: Sasha



          Christianity against sodomy is categorical, so when you speak out against Christianity, you are on the same front as sodomites.
        2. Corneli
          Corneli 15 July 2013 18: 32
          +2
          Quote: Sasha


          But this is really not our way. Like it or not .. We have nothing to do with homosexuals .. Or are you against ???

          From this is a twist! In your opinion, if a person is a Christian, is he gay? You at least know that the most ardent opponents of the legalization of gay marriages (in the US and Europe) are priests (and not from the church of Perun or Zeus).
          P.S. And about paganism and sodomy, remember the ancient Greeks. When they were pagans, there was such a thing that modern geyropeytsam before them like cancer to heaven!
          1. Technocrat
            Technocrat 15 July 2013 20: 29
            +5
            I support sincerely, unfortunately, the main misfortune of our people is precisely religious lack of culture. Many on this forum have rather poor knowledge of how Christian culture and religion have influenced and are affecting human nature. Unfortunately, this is not the place or the time to talk about it. Much has been said about the situation that we observe in the world and in Europe in the above privacy, namely, the widespread offensive of the sodomites and the imposition of sodomy as a new culture of a new Europe. In the context of this, the word “geyropa” quite often sounds here on this forum, and so my dear friends in Europe there are still many normal and healthy morally people who are struggling with this dirt as much as possible. There is no need to bury Europe in advance, I think Christians, both Catholics and Orthodox have not yet said their last word. Here is a very revealing photo taken at the Catholic Youth Day in Madrid this year, the biological , I think IT understands that in comparison with them IT is just an animal, so we don’t lose Europe, the continuation follows ......
    2. Bakunin
      Bakunin 15 July 2013 09: 07
      14
      to worship pieces of wood and throw up a hand "from the heart to the sun"? no thanks.
      1. sashka
        sashka 15 July 2013 10: 02
        +1
        Quote: Bakunin
        to worship pieces of wood and throw up a hand "from the heart to the sun"? no thanks.

        It’s not a question .. Put candles and pray .. And suddenly you’ll get lucky or blow it .. The Russians always believed and hoped only for MYSELF. WE WERE NOT GIVEN OTHER OPTIONS. And now everyone is scared, and suddenly RISE ... Headache in full ...
        1. Skiff
          Skiff 15 July 2013 12: 15
          +2
          I will say more, they knew in Russia, that they knew the essence and nature of things, and faith does not mean knowledge, it means believe that you do not know and it is not a fact that it is, in fact this term implied a completely different one, the original word faith was distorted.
          1. sashka
            sashka 15 July 2013 14: 46
            +3
            Quote: Skiff
            I will say more, they knew in Russia, that they knew the essence and nature of things, and faith does not mean knowledge, it means believe that you do not know and it is not a fact that it is, in fact this term implied a completely different one, the original word faith was distorted.

            As everything is right. If you know the name of a tree, then you can manage it, if a person doesn’t change anything .. Never tell anyone what your name really is, just the Council .. And look for Russian Gods on the Internet ..
            1. Flooding
              Flooding 15 July 2013 16: 46
              -1
              Quote: Sasha
              Never tell anyone what your real name is, just a tip

              not that?
              bury the passport ...
              Sasha, wasn’t that serious?
              1. sashka
                sashka 15 July 2013 19: 47
                +1
                [quote = Flood] sashka, wasn’t that serious? [/ quote]
                [quote = Flood] [quote = sashka] Never tell anyone what your name really is, just a tip [/ quote]
                Seriously. . Sorry, but it is. I'm not a magician, I'm a sorcerer .. The difference is big ..
                1. Flooding
                  Flooding 16 July 2013 10: 46
                  0
                  Quote: Sasha
                  I'm not a magician, I'm a sorcerer .. The difference is big ..

                  So here you are, pagans.
                  Then we are definitely out of the way with you.
          2. Flooding
            Flooding 15 July 2013 16: 55
            0
            Quote: Skiff
            I will say more, they knew in Russia, that is, they knew the essence and nature of things, and faith does not mean knowledge

            Maybe this is the power of faith. Did not think about it?
            Little to know. Take the following for example. situation:
            Satanists worship the devil. Therefore, they acknowledge the existence of God.
            But what is the use of such knowledge?
            You understand faith in its extremely simplified and devastated form.
        2. lexe
          lexe 15 July 2013 15: 53
          +2
          Russians always believed and hoped only for MYSELF

          The Battle of Kulikovo, 1612,1812, XNUMX, etc. Russians always believed and relied only on themselves and God. Do you think you didn’t hope in the Second World War? -Nonsense. My grandfather is a war veteran. there was a Christian ... and his just anger was not restrained at all and was not limited at the time of the battle. So the question of the transformation of the Russian Christian at the right time into the ancient form of life-being of the ancestors of the Slavs is not worth it.
          I am surprised you pagan-Russian Christians are the last on the list of your enemies for so much scum now ... Progress has given such monsters that all the mistakes of church leaders do not compare with them. So first on the list and then with us later.
        3. Flooding
          Flooding 15 July 2013 16: 42
          +2
          Quote: Sasha
          Since ancient times, Russia has had its own religion and its "own" gods


          Quote: Sasha
          Russians always believed and hoped only for MYSELF


          Sasha went peddling. They believed, they did not believe ...
      2. Skiff
        Skiff 15 July 2013 21: 20
        +2
        No offense, and throwing fingers on wooden icons is like that, and do not forget that many holidays, as you say, pagan, were inherited by Orthodoxy.
        1. Flooding
          Flooding 16 July 2013 11: 01
          0
          Quote: Skiff
          No offense, and throwing fingers on wooden icons is like

          Skiff, you do not notice that many forum users who previously defended Orthodoxy (if it needs protection at all) from attacks by neopagans, now simply do not pay attention to you?
          Perhaps I will take an example from them.
          Already so much information has been laid out for you on this subject, that if you were people who hungered for the truth, you would have long taken care to get acquainted. And they stopped asking ridiculous questions.

          There is one citizen, he will understand.
          I laid out the same children's questions:
          - But how could the Virgin Mary bear from the Holy Spirit? Are sperm floating in the air?
          - how is it possible that at first there was darkness, then light. And then already day and night.

          But all this is from the evil one, from spiritual and mental laziness ...
    3. nokki
      nokki 15 July 2013 09: 08
      21
      And you know the story so well that you can judge what is ours and what is not ours? Or are you a Nobel laureate in genetics?

      My brother, in Soviet times, defended his diploma on the role of sects and pagan cults in society. I helped him as much as possible. His work was very interested in the KGB. And he was allowed to use some materials of this department in his work.
      So, the planting of sectarianism and paganism in the Orthodox community was and is considered a priority for the CIA. Do not believe? Read the Pan Zbigniew.

      Nobody forces you to be a Christian. Be even a pagan, even a border guard. Another thing is if your ideological and moral views play into the hands of a potential adversary and cause a split in society.
      1. Armata
        Armata 15 July 2013 09: 15
        +4
        Quote: nokki
        Nobody forces you to be a Christian. Be even a pagan, even a border guard. Another thing is if your ideological and moral views play into the hands of a potential adversary and cause a split in society.
        I am an atheist, but I wear a bear’s tooth instead of a cross. What am I also a Westerner?
        1. Vadivak
          Vadivak 15 July 2013 09: 23
          13
          Quote: Mechanic
          I am an atheist, but I wear a bear’s tooth instead of a cross


          Hi Zhenya. Do not be so categorical.
          My dad was a communist, to the bone. His motto was No God. And we did not baptize. So, before dying in ten days, (stomach cancer) he predicted the day he would die (January 7) and accepted Baptism, so I knew atheists and I treat them normally
        2. experienced
          experienced 15 July 2013 09: 33
          +3
          Quote: Mechanic
          I am an atheist, but I wear a bear’s tooth instead of a cross. What am I also a Westerner?

          No, you're just a monster in the eyes of the greens, wassat But when you start to have ladies on the drawings in order to fertilize your deeds with a seed, then you will become a "pagan". lol
        3. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 15 July 2013 09: 33
          +7
          Quote: Mechanic
          I am an atheist, but I wear a bear’s tooth instead of a cross.

          Hi Zhenya! Do not whistle, you don’t have a bear on your neck, not even a simple chain.
          Tip: do not go to religion, you will believe, you will forget about the armature.
          1. Armata
            Armata 15 July 2013 09: 43
            +4
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Hi Zhenya! Do not whistle, you don’t have a bear on your neck, not even a simple chain.
            Tip: do not go to religion, you will believe, you will forget about the armature.
            Have you already climbed into my purse?
            1. experienced
              experienced 15 July 2013 09: 46
              +5
              Quote: Mechanic
              Have you already climbed into my purse?

              Well now, except for a bear’s tooth in a purse, a mechanic will wear a Romanoff tooth on his neck to please Greenpeace wassat
              1. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 15 July 2013 09: 50
                +3
                Quote: seasoned
                Romanoff’s tooth on his neck

                Ohh, then he will worship me belay cool feel Emperor winked
                1. experienced
                  experienced 15 July 2013 09: 53
                  +2
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  Ohh, then he will worship me

                  Look, this apologist will want to "remove" something else from you instead of a tooth ... laughing
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  cool feel Emperor

                  Of course it's cool, but without an organ it's somehow not interesting winked
                2. Vadivak
                  Vadivak 15 July 2013 10: 36
                  +3
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  Ohh, then he will worship me


                  If he has your tooth on his neck, then you will worship him smile
            2. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 15 July 2013 09: 49
              +3
              Quote: Mechanic
              Have you already climbed into my purse?

              So you wear a tooth in Koshelke yes laughing So the talisman and nothing more. The fact that you carry a bear’s tooth in your purse does not mean that you worship a bunch of bear shit laughing
        4. gansik
          gansik 15 July 2013 10: 47
          16
          Feminism - to the first worthy man.
          Communism - until the first personal capital.
          Atheism - until the first jolt in flight.
        5. Flooding
          Flooding 16 July 2013 10: 54
          0
          Quote: Mechanic
          I am an atheist, but I wear a bear’s tooth instead of a cross. What am I also a Westerner?

          A mechanic, and not wearing instead of a cross, but just so weak?
          I think the problem is this. In the head.
      2. Vadivak
        Vadivak 15 July 2013 09: 17
        +6
        Quote: nokki
        So, the planting of sectarianism and paganism in the Orthodox community was and is considered a priority for the CIA. Do not believe?


        They write about geyevropu and do not understand that it became such after the oppression by sectarians of Christianity, for which same-sex marriages and other abominations are categorically unacceptable.
        1. FRIGATE2
          FRIGATE2 15 July 2013 19: 54
          0
          Quote: Vadivak
          They write about geyevropu and do not understand that it became such after the oppression by sectarians of Christianity, for which same-sex marriages and other abominations are categorically unacceptable.

          A little deeper look into the problem? And that in Russia there are no g_mikov and gays of Russian nationality? that in Ukraine there are no lads of g_miks who are also baptized. And so, it turns out that those who are baptized can be homosexuals, do not be narrow-minded and categorical in opinions. Corruption is not due to the loss of Christianity / Islam, debauchery occurs in mentally rejected people for whom the standard c_x is no longer needed
      3. sashka
        sashka 15 July 2013 09: 21
        +2
        Quote: nokki
        And you know the story so well that you can judge what is ours and what is not ours?

        Well, they taught us about Prince Vladimir at school, and methods were also voiced .. Do you really believe that Russia is a thousand years old? They hid history, it’s just that the whole world will turn upside down .. All homosexuals have a history, But it seems that the Russian never existed .. From the air appeared and occupied the sixth part of the Earth. It's silly, you see ..
        1. Vadivak
          Vadivak 15 July 2013 09: 27
          +7
          Quote: Sasha
          .From the air appeared and occupied the sixth of the Earth.


          Not out of thin air. It was under the Christian kings, and what happened before this is for you to ren-tv
        2. Dejavu
          Dejavu 15 July 2013 10: 37
          +4
          Quote: Sasha
          It's silly, you see ..


          Really stupid. This only concerns your statements. Even in the Soviet version of the school history of Russia, our history is quite digestible, starting from the most ancient tribes. What do you mean "as if it never happened"? Have you read the textbook by chance?
    4. FunkschNNX
      FunkschNNX 15 July 2013 09: 31
      +1
      Unfortunately, the Slavic pagan tradition has been lost a little less than completely, and charlatans willingly use it. What is now available can at best be called neopaganism, but these are already modern cults.
    5. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 15 July 2013 09: 31
      10
      Quote: Sasha
      . Christianity is not our way.

      Don’t speak for everyone! By the way, some minorities in Europe also, like you, believe that Christianity is not their way. Welcome to their ranks.
      Quote: Sasha
      We are PAGAN. And I'm proud to be unbaptized

      Show your God, Gentile, what miracle did he perform? Where when? The blessed fire descends annually, but what does your pagan God do? Lays out another little article on the Internet with another "proof"
      1. Yarosvet
        Yarosvet 15 July 2013 15: 27
        -1
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Holy Fire descends annually


        http://afaq.narod.ru/bm.htm
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 15 July 2013 15: 47
          +1
          Quote: Yarosvet
          Yarosvet

          you with your reference can go to the Catholics. here they consider it heresy. posted a link from hell knows where and pass it off as truth. You’ll go far, but you won’t go anywhere negative
          1. Yarosvet
            Yarosvet 15 July 2013 16: 31
            0
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            You’ll go far, but you won’t go anywhere

            Why go so far?
            Link - reproduction of historical sources and subjective observations on the topic.

            The sacrament itself in an exact translation from Greek sounds like "IGNITION of the blessed fire" - there is no talk of any convergence.
            1. consul
              consul 15 July 2013 17: 22
              0
              Quote: Yarosvet



              Before entering Kuvukliya, the patriarch is searched (every time, mind you, he takes off almost all his clothes), and this is strictly observed, because. haters of Christians have a great desire to accuse them of fraud.
              1. Yarosvet
                Yarosvet 15 July 2013 19: 19
                -2
                Quote: consul
                Before entering Kuvuklia, the patriarch is searched (every time, mind you, he takes off almost all his clothes), and this is observed strictly,

                So they say.

                As for the "haters" of Christians, they are not allowed even close to that place.
      2. FunkschNNX
        FunkschNNX 15 July 2013 16: 31
        0
        Faith is good if it helps a person and does not harm other people, but you should not stoop to obscurantism. There are no miracles.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 15 July 2013 16: 38
          +1
          Quote: Фкенщь13
          but obscurantism should not be lowered. There are no miracles.

          Well, pass by, do not hold back
          1. FunkschNNX
            FunkschNNX 15 July 2013 17: 20
            0
            "Don't tell me what to do and I won't tell you where to go."
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 15 July 2013 17: 34
              +1
              Quote: Фкенщь13
              "Don't tell me what to do and I won't tell you where to go."

              Well, most importantly, you do not forget your way, but you can send anyone on the Internet.
    6. Rakti-kali
      Rakti-kali 15 July 2013 09: 40
      +4
      Quote: Sasha
      and Russia since ancient times had its own religion and its "own" gods. Christianity is not our way.

      The issue of faith is an individual matter. Do you want to praise Khors or thank Moksha for having a baby - this is your business. But why do you think that this is more correct than glorifying the One Creator, or asking for the intercession of the Virgin Mary?
      Moreover, in Russia the old religions and Christianity intertwined so closely that one often can not be distinguished from the other.
      1. sashka
        sashka 15 July 2013 10: 10
        -1
        Quote: Rakti-Kali
        But why do you think that this is more correct than glorifying the One Creator, or asking for the intercession of the Virgin Mary?

        Because I have DIED twice, truly and seriously. You can just believe .. God is one, but everyone has his own "personal". Which is in your soul. There are simply NO others .. I didn’t pray or ask. He just came Himself. No questions, truth and no answers .. And here I am .. knocking on the keyboard .. although I should rot for a long time.
        1. Dejavu
          Dejavu 15 July 2013 10: 42
          +3
          If for real, they would not write. A day after the death of the brain, you would wake up, I would say "for real." Or like Lazarus, that he had already begun to rot, and Christ raised him up. This is for real. And so ...

          One friend told me - GOD IS NOT, I was there and did not see anything. Scrap fell on his head and hard. It is simply stupid to interfere with the memories generated by the body brain with what the soul feels after separation from the body. Don't you think?
          1. sashka
            sashka 15 July 2013 14: 35
            0
            For real .. And I looked down at the gestures of other people .. no explanation ..
          2. FRIGATE2
            FRIGATE2 15 July 2013 20: 05
            0
            Quote: dejavu
            It is simply stupid to interfere with the memories generated by the body brain with what the soul feels after separation from the body. Don't you think?

            Where is the evidence that the soul exists? so where? The Bible \ Quran \ Talmud say that after death the soul exists forever. But where did you see the soul?
            1. Yarosvet
              Yarosvet 15 July 2013 21: 10
              -2
              Quote: FRIGATE2
              But where did you see the soul?


              Leviticus 17:14 fellow
        2. Rakti-kali
          Rakti-kali 15 July 2013 12: 54
          0
          Quote: Sasha
          Because I have DIED twice, truly and seriously. You can just believe .. God is one, but everyone has his own "personal". Which is in your soul. There are simply NO others .. I didn't pray or ask.

          And what is the contradiction here with what I wrote: - "The question of faith is an individual matter. If you want to praise Khors or thank Moksha for the birth of a child, this is your business. But why do you think that this is more correct than praising the One Creator, or asking for Virgo's intercession Mary?
          Moreover, in Russia the old religions and Christianity are so closely intertwined that one often cannot be distinguished from the other. "
          And that ... she is such a faith ... in order to believe it is not necessary to die ... and even once can be enough.
        3. Flooding
          Flooding 16 July 2013 11: 33
          0
          Quote: Sasha
          Because I DIED twice. Truly and truly

          But I will not dispute. Everything happens in life.
          I can only regret when a person after that does not make the correct conclusion.
      2. stroporez
        stroporez 15 July 2013 15: 27
        +1
        so it is, everything is intertwined ........ but, all this intricacies have got to us from our ancestors. those who abandon the traditions and faith of their ancestors --- they are not at all "ours". I understand that today they abandoned the ancestors of the Shoba in ....... to hammer. tomorrow this gay individual will take a knife, against me, that's why I'm not "banging." .....
    7. Parabelum
      Parabelum 15 July 2013 10: 27
      +5
      There are no words, Donskoy, Nevsky, Suvorov and many many others, it means not Russian, they were Orthodox. But Dostoevsky said: "You are Russian as much as you are Orthodox." This is how to mock outstanding historical figures, just because you see a pagan.
    8. Dejavu
      Dejavu 15 July 2013 10: 28
      +1
      Excuse me, but why do you need reason? Do you really sincerely believe in the god of salt, rain and others, understanding what it is from a scientific point of view? - some kind of self-deception. Although faith is individual.

      Christianity is a faith of love for God and neighbor, and for more than one hundred years shows that where it is, people have hope and light in their souls and in life in general. I do not know a single true Christian thief, rapist, murderer, or at least foul language. I hope that your faith in Perun also makes you spiritually cleaner and helps to cultivate the fruits of love in the form of good deeds for your neighbors.
      1. stas52
        stas52 15 July 2013 11: 22
        +2
        In vain you all attacked him. Take the Greeks - no one will say that they are not Christians, even more Orthodoxy came from them, but the whole world knows their ancient gods, even at school they study. I believe that we should study our own, if only to know.
        1. Flooding
          Flooding 16 July 2013 11: 40
          -1
          Quote: stas52
          Take the Greeks - no one will say that they are not Christians, even more Orthodoxy came from them, but the whole world knows their ancient gods, even at school they study.

          Knowing and believing are two big differences.
          I already wrote about this to my friend Skiff.
          But to us, under this sauce, the only and undeniably correct pagan faith is implanted. Because it is from ancestors. True, they forget about their other ancestors, who have been covering the Russian land with their bones for ten centuries. Sly, of course.

          Yes, have you read somewhere about the truth of the ancient Greek pantheon?
          Perhaps the Greeks themselves, to whom you appeal, worship Dionysos and Bacchus?
          No, they just study history and mythology without questioning the Christian faith.
          1. stas52
            stas52 17 July 2013 07: 43
            +1
            Quote: Flood
            Yes, have you read somewhere about the truth of the ancient Greek pantheon?
            Perhaps the Greeks themselves, to whom you appeal, worship Dionysos and Bacchus?
            No, they just study history and mythology without questioning the Christian faith.

            So maybe if we didn’t hide from the past, and didn’t redo whatever they wanted, but were proud of what was, everything could be fine with faith and patriotism too. And then we have the word patriot became abusive from 90's and still.
            Now many if asked: Are you a patriot? Answer: No, I am a believer b ***
            1. Flooding
              Flooding 17 July 2013 11: 18
              0
              Quote: stas52
              Now many if asked: Are you a patriot? Answer: No, I am a believer b ***

              Sorry, did not catch your thought.
              Quote: stas52
              And then we have the word patriot became abusive from the 90s and still.

              You yourself answered your own question. It is from the 90s.
              This is a milestone in the DECLINE of culture and morality. The vacuum is filling.
              But what? Great doubt about the quality of the product.
              You know, in tsarist times, paganism somehow was not held in high esteem.
              But with patriotism everything was fine.
              1. Ka3ak
                Ka3ak 18 July 2013 01: 09
                0
                Paganism and patriotism are inextricably linked only in the sick (from my point of view) fantasy of modern authors.

                In fact, the religious system of paganism is associated not with the people and the fatherland, but with tribal relations. That is, each tribe had its patron deity, which is associated with the history of the tribe. Pantheons arise much later in the formation of the union of tribes. But it was not a problem for a pagan to tell fortunes on a strange (neighboring) sacred land. And make a bloody mess out of it ...
                See the Saga of the People from the Sandy Shore.
    9. Rosomaha67
      Rosomaha67 15 July 2013 13: 04
      +1
      ... oh dear Alexander, you can’t even dream of a revival of paganism, nothing will come of it, you must be born as an eggman, and again, so that the pagan world surrounds you all the time. then maybe it will help you. And our newcomers, as a rule, do this for the sake of experiment. Well, it’s fun to them like that, the Goths go to the graves, as they grow older, this goes on with them and it goes on. Paganism is too specific, and in the modern world too much knowledge has been accumulated for the pagan to doubt the existence of his gods. More advanced Christianity, then it periodically burst at the seams due to the successes of modern scholars, and paganism has lost the historical race, and will never win again ........ if only in a totalitarian state (all the teachings of the RSDLPb-VKPB-CPSU can be equated with neopaganism, though very rough equating will be, but with the relics of V.I. Ulyanov they still went too far)
      1. FRIGATE2
        FRIGATE2 15 July 2013 20: 17
        +1
        Quote: Rosomaha67
        paganism lost the historical race, and will never win again ...

        You said it right. A little more time and Biblical / Islamic and other confessional civilizations will lose their consumers, in step with education and education.
        Quote: Rosomaha67
        all the teachings of the RSDLPb-VKPB-CPSU can be equated with neopaganism, though there will be very rough equating, but with the relics of V.I. Ulyanov they went too far

        Well, this is also an ideology.
        Any religion is an ideology, a doctrine of dogmas and a complex of promises.
        Avramic religions promise an eternal kingdom of heaven, if you endure your real life, endure the president, the ruling elite and promise heaven, endure fasting to prove fidelity to God, and in the rest of the days God does not see what a person is doing right?
        Religion is once again an ideology, and just as any ideology does not stand up to criticism, so Communism promised a bright, cloudless future and, as a result, collapsed with a bang.

        Avramic religions were successful because it was their concept that switched to a new way of controlling slaves, instead of physical slavery, the slave received intellectual or spiritual slavery, and therefore these religions were so actively spread in the slave world, the ancient Jews were also smart as now
    10. Uncle
      Uncle 15 July 2013 15: 00
      +1
      Quote: Sasha
      Christianity is not our way.

      Let me remind you that Russia began to gain strength precisely thanks to Christian monasteries, in particular Peresvet, in the baptism of Alexander, the monk of St. Sergius of Radonezh.
      1. Normal
        Normal 15 July 2013 17: 09
        +5
        Alexander Romanov, Vadivak, Bakunin, nokki, Dejavu, Parabelum
        What did you do here? An article about Christianophobia in Europe, and this is not the main thing for you. The main thing is that someone openly stated I AM PAGAN!
        Everything is forgotten. Persecution of Christians in Europe by the authorities, open war against Christians by Muslims almost all over the world, subversive activities against Christian morality by sexual minorities and support of these minorities by representatives of the "chosen people" Everything became not important to you as soon as LANGUAGE appeared. This is where the main danger to Christianity lies. Atu him! Atu !!

        Orthodox Christians (although this concept is disputed) are very sensitive to any criticism of their religion and everything connected with it. And I understand them. But I don’t understand who gave you the right to touch not even religion, but Pagan faith. What do you allow yourself?
        Try to say something unpleasant about Islam in general or about Muslim in particular. Get tired of Yarbaya and his fellow believers to fight back.
        Say something negative about Judaism and the srach will stretch for several days.
        Therefore:
        Quote: Vadivak
        (I respect all monotheists with respect)

        Even atheists, that is, atheists, do not cause you to be denied, they are not worthy of mockery:
        Quote: Vadivak
        so I knew atheists and treat them normally

        So who gave you the right to mock Faith, Christ? Creator? Who! Who gave you the right to banter over the Faith that gave the world Roman law and Hellenic culture? Over Faith, which gave Strength to Swotoslav the Brave to defeat Khazaria with its Jewish rulers and Muslim lower classes. Who knows, if it were not for the Paganism of Svyatoslav, maybe you would now be banging your heads against a wall of crying.
        You require respect for the to their religions and with contempt relate to the Pagan Faith. What right do you have for the first if you yourself demonstrate the second?
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 15 July 2013 17: 33
          0
          Quote: Normal
          Alexander Romanov, Vadivak, Bakunin, nokki, Dejavu, Parabelum
          What did you do here? An article on Christianophobia in Europe,

          So say it to the Gentiles.
          1. Normal
            Normal 15 July 2013 17: 46
            +1
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            So say it to the Gentiles.

            What, further than this sentence did not read?
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 15 July 2013 17: 51
              +1
              Quote: Normal

              What, further than this sentence did not read?

              I read, but did not write. this is enough.
              1. Normal
                Normal 15 July 2013 18: 05
                +1
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                I read, but did not write. this is enough.
                Could this not be written that strain something? Still, he did not say anything in the case.
        2. does it
          does it 15 July 2013 19: 52
          +1
          Quote: Normal
          So who gave you the right to mock Faith, Christ? Creator? Who! Who gave you the right to banter over the Faith that gave the world Roman law and Hellenic culture?

          Or maybe the opposite? In Hellas there was polytheism, one of the main gods Zeus (there was such an ancient Greek commander who demanded divine honors during his life). The Roman Empire gave Roman law under polytheism (Jupiter, Juno, and so on.) And under Justinian (Byzantine Empire) Roman law was being perfected. Justinian also banned courage. IF I AM MISTAKED IN ANYTHING, WRITE A ARTICLE ON THIS TOPIC. what
        3. Vadivak
          Vadivak 15 July 2013 20: 36
          +3
          Quote: Normal
          Who! Who gave you the right to banter over the Faith that gave the world Roman law and Hellenic culture?


          Was it not the Roman faith that encouraged sacrifice in the form of gladiatorial battles? Is it not Hellenic culture that preached homosexual relations?

          Do you at least read about this forgiveness, Lord culture, and then disgrace

          Myths ascribed bugger passions to the gods: Zeus abducted Ganymede, Apollo loved a number of beautiful young men. Pederasty was also attributed to the heroes: the lovers of Hercules were called the charioteer, the nephew of the hero Iolaus, as well as Gill, the argonaut Polyphemus and Sostratus; Achilles and Patroclus in the classical era were unambiguously perceived and described as a love couple. It was generally believed that the custom of loving boys was introduced by the Theban king Laius, Oedipus's father, who fell in love with the handsome boy Chrysippus and kidnapped him; however, Timaeus attributes the introduction of this custom to the Cretans. Finally, in Northern Greece, the singer of Orpheus, who turned away from women after the loss of his beloved Eurydice, was considered the inventor of pederasty.


          Few? Still need examples? For all fans of pagan Hellas read


          “... Eros of the heavenly Aphrodite goes back to the goddess, who, firstly, is involved only in the masculine, but not in the feminine, - it is not without reason that this is love for young men, and secondly, older and alien to criminal insolence. That’s why those obsessed with such love turn to the male sex, preferring that which is stronger by nature and endowed with a greater mind. ”

          - Plato
          1. Normal
            Normal 15 July 2013 21: 00
            +1
            Quote: Vadivak
            Do you at least read about this forgiveness, Lord culture, and then disgrace

            Well, if in all ancient Greek, God forgive me, culture you saw nothing but general pederasty, then you should go to a sex therapist. I, on the other hand, have promised to discuss the "most favorite topic" on the site and do not intend to continue.
            You can even delete the ancient world from history and consider the baptism of Rus as the beginning of civilization. A very cultured person will glorify.
            And the last:
            "One who does not respect another person's faith cannot count on respect for his own faith."

            - Not Plato
            1. Vadivak
              Vadivak 15 July 2013 21: 12
              +2
              Quote: Normal
              One who does not respect the faith of another person cannot count on respect for his faith "


              Sasha “But it really is not our way.” Like it or not .. We have nothing to do with homosexuals ..

              What's this? Isn't an insult from your pack? AND

              Quote: Normal
              Well, if in all the ancient Greek, God forgive the culture, you did not see anything other than rampant pederasty, then you should go to a sex therapist.


              I gave an example, but in response I hear rudeness, well ....
              1. Normal
                Normal 15 July 2013 22: 51
                +2
                Quote: Vadivak
                Not from your rooms

                This, as I understand it, is not rudeness ...
                Quote: Vadivak
                I gave an example, but in response I hear rudeness, well ....

                Oh, what an example they gave such an answer and received.

                - Who built the Parthenon?
                - Yes, some bugger
                - ????
                - Yes, they are all buggers there.
                “And king Leonid, and 300 Spartans?”
                - Battle buggers.
                - Well, all the other Greeks?
                - Pampered buggers.
                - And the Romans?
                - Severe buggers.
                - And Caesar?
                “Well, of course, everyone knows that.”
                - Lucretius? Aurelius? Cicero? Plutarch?
                - Smart buggers.
                - Phew .... Well, then ... Next?
                - Yes, all the same.
                - And Karl Marx?
                - Hairy p ... st
                - Napoleon?
                - The warlike ... st
                - Well, and Lenin?
                - Burry p ... st
                - And Stalin?
                - Mustachioed ... st
                - Hitler?
                - Frenzied p ... st
                - Khrushchev?
                - Bald p ... st
                - Brezhnev?
                - Browny p..st
                - What is it?
                - That's that.
                - Well, and these that are being cut during the discussion IN ... Well, there ... "Normal"? ..., "Vadivak" ...?
                - Well, of course! What did you think ?!
                - What are you ?! Do you know what happens for such a statement ?!
                - Hush, young man, hush ... Don't worry so much ... They just don’t know about it yet ...
                lol laughing
        4. Vadivak
          Vadivak 15 July 2013 21: 04
          +3
          Quote: Normal
          Even atheists, that is, atheists, do not cause you to be denied, they are not worthy of mockery:


          Because they they are not lost to God
          Quote: Normal
          So who gave you the right to mock Faith, Christ?

          By faith? Do not tell, everyone except you already knows that the earth revolves around the yarila
          1. Normal
            Normal 15 July 2013 23: 02
            0
            Quote: Vadivak
            By faith? Do not make me laugh,

            Do you think this is funny? Good. I didn’t want to escalate, but pride has embraced you and you don’t want to stop.
            I will also find something to laugh at in your religion. Be sure ...
            1. Andrew-001
              Andrew-001 16 July 2013 01: 47
              0
              Quote: Normal
              I will also find something to laugh at in your religion. Be sure ..

              Not worth it. Paganism is good because it has always been respected by other gods.
              Let the monotheists themselves cut themselves together so that the sabers do not have time to change.
        5. FRIGATE2
          FRIGATE2 15 July 2013 22: 21
          +1
          Quote: Normal
          Orthodox Christians (although this concept is disputed) are very sensitive to any criticism of their religion and everything connected with it. And I understand them. But I don’t understand who gave you the right to touch not even religion, but Pagan faith. What do you allow yourself?

          Thank you very much.
          As I understand it, you are the only sensible adult here, you have a great life experience.
          I don’t understand your compatriots - Russians and your fellow tribesmen - in particular of Russian nationality.
          When you argue with them, their arguments are always according to the scenario, the conspiracy, the Jews and the Zionists, like parrots tell Europe the end, the USA end, when they just slowed down, and the Russian Federation is completely stopped.
          Everything seems to be zombified by powerful propaganda, and if not, then this conspiracy supposedly already works, or many Russians like Alexander Romanov smoke powerful herbs, better than Afghan.
          Honestly, I don’t know how to understand such people, was Bulgakov talking about such a Russia?
        6. Parabelum
          Parabelum 16 July 2013 07: 27
          0
          What kind of hysteria? Where in my post did I demand something? We read more carefully, the man said that Russians must be pagans. Well, because he thinks so. To paraphrase in common language it will be something like this: "All artiodactyls, aya D'Artagnan." And most importantly, it is not supported by anything. "Our ancestors worshiped ..", so what, and they also killed mammoths with stones, why then modern weapons, let's equip the army with cobblestones. And if you dig even deeper, then the religion of the ancestors will be shamanism. Specifically, from what time period did the "true Russians" go? And you shouldn't be nervous, you just shouldn't present your point of view as the Truth in the last sentence, just because someone thought something there.
        7. Flooding
          Flooding 16 July 2013 11: 44
          0
          Quote: Normal
          An article about Christianophobia in Europe, and this is not the main thing for you. The main thing is that someone openly stated I AM PAGAN!

          Be honest with yourself.
          This someone said, "We are pagans." Be careful.
          He stated this in a topic dedicated to the persecution of Christians.
          He challenged. And you are calling us to hide our heads in the sand.
          It is possible, of course. Believe me, many did not find his words worthy of an answer.

          Quote: Normal
          So who gave you the right to mock Faith, Christ? Creator? Who!

          What faith? Where did you see neo-pagans faith ???
          1. Normal
            Normal 16 July 2013 21: 47
            +2
            Quote: Flood

            Be honest with yourself.

            I am trying.
            Quote: Flood
            This someone said, "We are pagans." Be careful.

            Yes, we are pagans. What, does it hurt you? Why?
            Quote: Flood
            He stated this in a topic dedicated to the persecution of Christians.

            Are Christian persecutions organized and carried out by the Gentiles?
            Quote: Flood
            He challenged.

            What a challenge? What is it expressed in? The fact that someone dared to be honest with himself, dared to not be such a hypocrite as most Christians?
            Quote: Flood
            And you are calling us to hide our heads in the sand.

            No, I suggest that you respect the right to choose a person. I suggest observing freedom of conscience. Is it hard for Christians?
            Quote: Flood
            What faith? Where did you see neo-pagans faith ???

            I ask you to shut up, otherwise I will ask you; de you saw the Trinity ?, where did you see Christ ?, where did you see Faith in the Christian religion, thoroughly saturated with commerce?
            I have repeatedly asked in this discussion; do not touch my faith. My Faith is in me and not for you, who sold your freedom of choice, your right of direct communication with the God of the church, who placed sellers of grace between yourself and God, to tell me how to BELIEVE and WHO TO BELIEVE.
            Is it clear to you? Or want to continue?
            1. Flooding
              Flooding 17 July 2013 11: 22
              0
              Quote: Normal
              What a challenge? What is it expressed in? The fact that someone dared to be honest with himself, dared to not be such a hypocrite as most Christians?

              Normal, I begin to doubt the advisability of the dialogue.
              Since everything lies on the surface.
              But I will try again.
              Quote: Sasha
              But We are Russians with a millennial history, and who are Jews or Catholics for us or whoever else is there .. We are on our own .. Find "your" God in the SOUL, Genes have not been canceled .. We are LANGUAGES. And I am proud to be unbaptized ..

              Read carefully. If this time you don’t understand, I can’t compensate for these costs in any way.
              "we are ... Russians ... pagans
              proud to be unbaptized "
              You do not have to be Freud to comprehend and understand the message of a citizen.
              And what is behind it.
              Quote: Normal
              I ask you to shut up, otherwise I will ask you; de you saw the Trinity ?, where did you see Christ ?, where did you see Faith in the Christian religion, thoroughly saturated with commerce?
              I have repeatedly asked in this discussion; don't touch my faith

              Dear, can you logically shut up first to you?
              The first time you entered this field, supporting the provocative words of Sasha?
              Be so kind, sir, shut up.
              But this time I won’t write what I think about neopagans.
              Quote: Normal
              My Faith is in me and not for you, who sold your freedom of choice, your right of direct communication with the God of the church, who placed sellers of grace between yourself and God, to tell me how to BELIEVE and WHO TO BELIEVE.

              Am I sold out? What are you saying? And to whom and for how much? What kind of babble ...
              My choice is absolutely conscious and free. You, dear sir, I do not impose anything and urge you not to pour slop on the faith of grandfathers and great-grandfathers. However, I can’t wait, I know.
              1. Normal
                Normal 17 July 2013 13: 00
                0
                Flush
                I have already posted that I am finishing a polemic on this thread. According to this, the answer will be in PM. In the evening.
    11. Flooding
      Flooding 15 July 2013 16: 41
      0
      Quote: Sasha
      We are PAGAN

      And a lot of you? Crucify for yourself.
      Quote: Sasha
      And I'm proud to be unbaptized

      It is very sad that there is no other reason for pride.
    12. Normal
      Normal 15 July 2013 17: 22
      0
      Quote: Sasha
      Since ancient times, Russia has had its own religion and its "own" gods. Christianity is not our way; it is the imposition of a Jewish and gay European outlook on life.

      Not tolerant, rude and absolutely true!
      Quote: Sasha
      look at this World through the eyes of our ANCESTORS and you will see all the absurdity of Words and Works .. Do you want to be Russian, be.
      good drinks
      1. Vadivak
        Vadivak 15 July 2013 21: 19
        +3
        Quote: Sasha
        Since ancient times, Russia has had its own religion and its "own" gods.


        They are now preserved, in hot yellow Africa in its central part, though I do not advise you to go there to exchange experiences, they can gobble up





      2. Flooding
        Flooding 16 July 2013 12: 09
        0
        Quote: Normal
        Not tolerant, rude and absolutely true!

        Normal, what is your normalcy? In the fact that at first you accuse those who speak of widespread pederasty in pagan Greece of narrow-mindedness, and then support your like-minded person in his accusations of being "gay-European"?
        In my opinion, it’s normal to adhere to the chosen point of view, and not to change it like gloves several times a day.
        1. Normal
          Normal 17 July 2013 03: 29
          0
          Quote: Flood
          Normal, what is your normality?

          In my normality. The fact that I do not meddle with my faith and my opinion about other religions to other people.
          What is your normality?
          Quote: Flood
          You blame the narrow-mindedness of those ...

          Confirm your statement with a quote from my text. I have not a word about narrow-mindedness. Do not invent.

          Quote: Flood
          In my opinion, it’s normal to adhere to the chosen point of view, and not to change it like gloves several times a day.

          Give a quote where I support
          a like-minded person in his accusations of being "gay European"?
          and indicate where I changed my point of view?
          1. Flooding
            Flooding 17 July 2013 11: 37
            0
            Quote: Normal
            Confirm your statement with a quote from my text. I have not a word about narrow-mindedness. Do not invent.

            You are not Cicero, and I did not quote you. Outlined in free form, without committing an iota against the general meaning.
            Quote: Normal
            . The fact that I do not meddle with my faith and my opinion about other religions to other people.

            It may be fairer to muster the courage and speak directly than to support those who "climb with their faith and with their opinions about other religions to other people."
            Quote: Normal
            and indicate where I changed my point of view?

            literally you did not change the point of view. Not quite accurately put it.
            But if I expressed myself more accurately, it would have turned out to be more offensive.
            Think for yourself.
    13. Ka3ak
      Ka3ak 15 July 2013 22: 38
      +2
      Quote: Sasha
      Since ancient times, Russia has had its own religion and its "own" gods. Christianity is not our path; it is the imposition of a Jewish and gay European outlook on life. But We are Russians with a millennial history, and who are Jews or Catholics for us or whoever else is there .. We are on our own .. Find "your" God in the SOUL, Genes have not been canceled .. We are LANGUAGES. And I am proud that I am not baptized .. Then look at this World through the eyes of our ANCESTORS and you will see all the absurdity of Words and Deeds .. Do you want to be Russian, be .. Otherwise, you are a gay European ..


      The truth is one, and it has no nationality. Like God created all things.
      Own idols, my ancestors left the Glory of God to the rivers and turned to the Truth.
      The long history of the people must be confirmed firstly by the presence of traces of life, and secondly, by 100% evidence that these monuments belong to the Russian people, and not to someone who lived and, apparently, they were Russians.

      In addition, I would like to note that the Russian people appeared after the adoption of Christianity in the 9-10 century, the genesis of the Russian people from the tribal formations of the Eastern Slavs. The time was when, on the vast territory of the Russian plain, thousands of people living through family relations, paying tribute to the military leader began to feel common, they began to feel that they were Russian, this formation of the people was extremely mysterious and did not happen without God's providence. It was with the sign of the Cross of Christ that our ancestors gathered a great power !!! The greatest on the planet, created a great culture, a beautiful folk and then professional. This is all done by people who believe in the Truth. Not idols.
      Look at things with an open mind, does the doctrine of God exist on earth, higher than Orthodox Christianity teaches about it? I did not meet, in spite of all the enthusiasm in the holostanged youth of eastern religions and, in general, the history of religious and philosophical thought.

      So, look at the world through the eyes of your ancestors, Russian Orthodox people. Created a real state and real achievements in the culture of science and religion! Or do you think the Cossack prayed and fasted in the besieged Azov 17th century in non-Russians? Or the soldiers of Suvorov fasting before the capture of Ishmael, or the soldiers of Alexander Nevsky? All Russia that we knew lived by Christ, we do not know another Russia, there are simply no written sources, no oral tradition has been preserved. We have no information whether the Russian people were before the 9-10th century. And there is information directly opposite about the presence of tribes and a union of tribes (a qualitatively different relationship based on tribal relations and an external military alliance, in contrast to an associative folk connection that makes one different people on the basis of belonging to a community connected by qualitatively different ties than tribal or military ones). Therefore, please do not read in fantasies about the 10000-year-old history of the ancestors of worshipers, it is not clear to anyone, it is not clear why ... Forgive me if I offended, I tried to be sincere.
      1. Andrew-001
        Andrew-001 16 July 2013 02: 00
        +1
        Quote: KA3AK
        Own idols, my ancestors left the Glory of God to the rivers and turned to the Truth.

        And now Europe of its "idols" with whom it lived for 2000 years also decided to "leave in the river" and turn to its new (incomprehensible to me) "Truth" - in fact, what is the difference between the actions of your ancestors and the actions of today's Europeans?
        Quote: KA3AK
        do you think Cossack prayed and fasted in the besieged Azov 17th century in non-Russians?

        Russian and Orthodox are not synonyms.
        Quote: KA3AK
        Sorry if I offended, I tried to be sincere.

        I put you a plus for your calm presentation of thoughts. But in my opinion it’s better not to touch upon religious issues at all.
        1. Flooding
          Flooding 16 July 2013 12: 12
          0
          Quote: Andrew-001
          And now Europe of its "idols" with whom it lived for 2000 years also decided to "leave in the river" and turn to its new (incomprehensible to me) "Truth" - in fact, what is the difference between the actions of your ancestors and the actions of today's Europeans?

          Oh, how interesting. That pagans beat themselves in the chest "we are real Russians", Christianity is from "gayropeans". Then suddenly they immediately hide behind Europe.
          Yes, if you look from your bell tower, then the difference may not be seen.
          I don’t even want to go to you to check.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Andrew-001
            Andrew-001 19 July 2013 02: 17
            0
            Since you quote me, I will answer.
            1) To begin with, I will enlighten you - Christianity is not from Europeans, but from Jews - read the Old Testament at your leisure.
            2) As I understand it, you meant me by saying
            Quote: Flood
            That pagans beat themselves in the chest "we are real Russians", Christianity is from "gayropeans".

            open the primer, look for familiar letters - learn unfamiliar ones. After that, look in my comments where I call myself a pagan.
            3) Name your options for where my "bell tower" is located.
            4)
            Quote: Flood
            I don’t even want to go to you ...
            No need to climb to me - I'm not fond of men =)
        2. Ka3ak
          Ka3ak 16 July 2013 23: 21
          +1
          Quote: Andrew-001
          And now Europe of its "idols" with whom it lived for 2000 years also decided to "leave in the river" and turn to its new (incomprehensible to me) "Truth" - in fact, what is the difference between the actions of your ancestors and the actions of today's Europeans?

          Absolutely correct formulation of the question. Here we are now with you and try to find out what the difference is! This question is the very essence of what is called.

          Of course, Christians did not reset their idols because of hostility towards artistically crafted pieces of wood. Enmity and abuse was directed not toward them, but toward those ideas whose symbol was wood. In the end, from a purely formal external side, Christian icons do not differ from idol statues (I will repeat from a purely formal and external). The difference, as always, is in people, namely in the attitude of people to these subjects, and no less important is the difference in those ideas that stand behind them.
          What a little bit I will express my point of view on these same ideas “standing for”. The overturning of the creature cult in which the essence of paganism (nothing derogatory, just any subject or object except the Creator), and so this overturn is very justified. For the reason that in this cult there simply is simply no place for the Absolute, and therefore for the Truth alone for all. This purely philosophical conclusion had in practice a number of characteristic manifestations in a particular religious life. The most striking of them is the predisposition to tolerance for evil and the distortion of Truth, and in general its depreciation. This, of course, happens in the life of each of us, but it’s not about the life of each of us, but a religious concept.
          This is especially pronounced when observing the development of a pagan religious system. First, human sacrifices appear in the form of the slaughter of captured foreigners (as if part of the military booty is given to the god of war), then they sacrifice their own by blood too, followed by the worst: children's skulls to please Baal ... (Remember the good word Carthage)

          I do not want to say the above that all who were pagans were frank bastards and devils. No, there were worthy people among them, and some worthy traditions, but again I’m not talking about people. Their religious system did not have immunity in its very root (doctrinal base) that would defend the truth against the power of arrogance, laziness, lust ... In their syncretic thinking, a successful king was equal to a righteous man, with him good luck - therefore with him a god (with a small letter). Naturally, the path for deviations is open. Developing pagan systems have shown this.

          Now we turn to those who want to destroy the idea of ​​the Absolute and the cult of Truth. What do they offer us in return? And I'll tell you how I see it. We are offered the idea of ​​slavery to our lusts (they call it freedom) and the cult of vice. I think any person in whom the fire of the thirst for truth has not yet died out and in whom the voice of conscience still sounds, will be on the side of Christ in this struggle ...
          PS
          This is all without an analysis of the specific ideas that Christianity shines against the applicants.
          1. Flooding
            Flooding 17 July 2013 11: 41
            0
            Quote: KA3AK
            Now we turn to those who want to destroy the idea of ​​the Absolute and the cult of Truth. What do they offer us in return? And I'll tell you how I see it. We are offered the idea of ​​slavery to our lusts (they call it freedom) and the cult of vice. I think any person in whom the fire of the thirst for truth has not yet died out and in whom the voice of conscience still sounds, will be on the side of Christ in this struggle ...

            Lubo, friend KAZAK!
        3. Ka3ak
          Ka3ak 16 July 2013 23: 25
          0
          Quote: Andrew-001
          Russian and Orthodox are not synonyms.

          Of course not) But I didn’t say that. I opposed the gap between them that the previous speaker had proclaimed. I myself wanted to point out the presence, the objective presence, of the very close connection between the Russians and Orthodoxy.
          Quote: Andrew-001
          I put you a plus for your calm presentation of thoughts. But in my opinion it’s better not to touch upon religious issues at all.

          Thank you) However, if we don’t talk about it, we don’t think about it, we cook in our own juice, we don’t know each other and we will have wrong ideas about such important things in human life. I still think it is necessary to speak and reason.
          1. Andrew-001
            Andrew-001 17 July 2013 01: 24
            +1
            I, in turn, apologize for not fully revealing my previous answer.
            I’ll clarify my point of view: in order to strive for something good and bright, it is not at all necessary to belong to any religion. The fact that a person believes otherwise than you, me, or someone else - still does not say anything, because important things done by man.
            The fact that Russian and Orthodox are not synonyms is what I mean, that a Russian person can, but does not have to be Orthodox. He can believe in anything and anyone, or not believe in anything - just let him be a good person.
            Quote: KA3AK
            I think it is nevertheless necessary to speak and reason.

            It is necessary, but in many comments I saw only CRACH WHOSE FAITH MUCH MORE (sorry if anyone offends such my words). But I don’t divide people according to their faith, I divide them according to their actions - bad, good and none. Yes, I do not accept Russian Orthodox Church - but this does not mean that I hate Orthodoxy. Any faith - including paganism - is trying to raise a person above the ordinary, move him to some serious actions. Atheism is doing the same thing - to raise a person above him, to push him up based on faith in human abilities.
            Therefore, it is necessary to speak, but precisely to speak, and not force a person to accept someone’s point of view as the only true one. I must say, we must look for something in common that will unite and not quarrel, look for something that will lift a person, and not vppochet him in the mud.
            1. Ka3ak
              Ka3ak 18 July 2013 00: 59
              +1
              Quote: Andrew-001
              I, in turn, apologize for not fully revealing my previous answer.
              I’ll clarify my point of view: in order to strive for something good and bright, it is not at all necessary to belong to any religion. The fact that a person believes otherwise than you, me, or someone else - still does not say anything, because important things done by man.

              Partly I agree with you, Orthodoxy does not even claim that only an Orthodox person has a monopoly on the manifestation of honesty, love for one's neighbor, kindness and a pure heart ...
              It even more likely suggests that the human soul is by nature a Christian, that is, for any person, the connection with good is natural. That is, a person can be good or bad regardless of what his worldview system teaches. But if we talk about a single person, if we talk about the system itself, then this is a completely different matter. And atheists are better than Christians. An inconsistent atheist is sometimes far better than an inconsistent Christian. Indeed, a person is truly judged by deeds. But this is not about people. It's about more complicated, as it seems to me. It's about the very path that people go, where he leads them and what awaits them at the end of the path. The fact that some people declare one path, but go the other, leave them on their conscience and turn to the consideration of the paths themselves. Good and bright cannot be everywhere. It is expressed specifically in specific ideas. By comparing the ideological content of beliefs (including atheism), a person with a conscience and reason can find out what is true and good, and which way leads in the wrong direction ... Therefore, I do not agree that any faith leads to the good of man ... Apparently this is a consequence of a very specific interpretation of the concept “Good”, the whole point is that for my worldview, good is only that which connects a person with the Absolute (Truth), or that strengthens this connection. But serious actions can be of different qualities ... The path of atheism seems to me not without a flaw due to the fact that he can undoubtedly move a person to serious and even fatal acts, but the variable nature of a person erects the measure of these actions. But you understand what will happen to the house if we build it using measures of length, weight and volume, constantly changing their indicators. We will not build anything, but what is built will be corrupted under the weight of an unbalanced piling up of efforts ... Actually, we could observe something similar in the 20th century ...
              Excuse me, I saw something like this in myself ... There was somehow a thing, the name is pride, it destroys the most precious thing a person has - love, for Truth. It makes you consider yourself the truth ... Pushes to madness ...
              1. Ka3ak
                Ka3ak 18 July 2013 01: 02
                0
                Quote: Andrew-001
                The fact that Russian and Orthodox are not synonyms is what I mean, that a Russian person can, but does not have to be Orthodox. He can believe in anything and anyone, or not believe in anything - just let him be a good person.

                Understood.) But when I think about these things, the thought does not leave me ... Could there be a person who firmly decided for himself not to believe in anything really a good person? ... Maybe this is the secret of the human soul entangled in internal motives and internal contradictions ... From because we are hidden what is happening inside the human person ...
                Quote: Andrew-001
                It is necessary, but in many comments I saw only CRACH WHOSE FAITH MUCH MORE (sorry if anyone offends such my words). But I don’t divide people according to their faith, I divide them according to their actions - bad, good and none. Yes, I do not accept Russian Orthodox Church - but this does not mean that I hate Orthodoxy. Any faith - including paganism - is trying to raise a person above the ordinary, move him to some serious actions. Atheism is doing the same thing - to raise a person above him, to push him up based on faith in human abilities.
                Therefore, it is necessary to speak, but precisely to speak, and not force a person to accept someone’s point of view as the only true one. I must say, we must look for something in common that will unite and not quarrel, look for something that will lift a person, and not vppochet him in the mud.

                It is necessary to scandalize the case :) But this is the Internet. In Russian, it seems, this word translates as a cesspool.))
                As for the search, I completely agree with you ... But there is one thing but. When opposing views are met, the true unity of the meeting parties can only be achieved by renouncing false views. Still, good and evil objectively exist, just like lies and truth ... The modern age is trying to mix these concepts. But if you mix a can of jam with a can of feces, you get not two cans of jam, but two cans of feces ... Thus, we have a great responsibility to determine in which can the jam ... And from which cans feed our children ...
  5. Deniska999
    Deniska999 15 July 2013 08: 54
    +4
    The fact is that for Europe, religion has always been a cover.
    1. sashka
      sashka 15 July 2013 09: 01
      -1
      Quote: Deniska999
      The fact is that for Europe, religion has always been a cover. WITH

      Covering what from the comment is not clear. But ... religion is a means of making money. And it does not matter what .. But VERA is different for everyone. For each. Everyone has God, in the "SOUL" but this is his "Personal" God. And not some abstract .. God is I, and I am God .. Believe yourself, AS THE PRACTICE SHOWS, MORE BELIEVE SOMEONE. Nothing else matters..
      1. Vadivak
        Vadivak 15 July 2013 09: 11
        11
        Quote: Sasha
        But VERA is different for everyone. Everyone has God, in the "SOUL" but this is his "Personal" God.


        And each, in consultation with his personal god, decides what to do with respect to his neighbor? Think before you write.



        Quote: Sasha
        Religion is a means of making money. And no matter what.


        Religion is a set of laws and human norms of behavior, especially Christian, and if you do not like don’t kill, don’t commit adultery, don’t steal, then you act as you wrote above on the advice of your personal god.
        1. sashka
          sashka 15 July 2013 10: 24
          0
          Quote: Vadivak

          And each, in consultation with his personal god, decides what to do with respect to his neighbor? Think before you write.


          I thought .. I was worried .. Don’t create yourself an idol .. Be yourself. Neighbors are also not angels when they go with a gun ..
          1. Vadivak
            Vadivak 15 July 2013 11: 23
            +6
            Quote: Sasha
            Do not make yourself an idol.

            Do not create correctly

            "Kumirnya" is a pagan temple, a temple. Idol pagan idol, god, idiot, idol
            1. does it
              does it 15 July 2013 17: 27
              +3
              Quote: Vadivak
              Quote: Sasha
              Do not make yourself an idol.

              Do not create correctly

              "Kumirnya" is a pagan temple, a temple. Idol pagan idol, god, idiot, idol

              I went into a church shop somehow! And there are so many "idols" hanging on the shelves and walls and donation prices depending on the sanctity of these "idols"
              1. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 15 July 2013 17: 32
                +2
                Quote: kvirit
                Zashol somehow in the church shop! And there are so many "idols" on the shelves and walls hanging

                Why is it so difficult to distinguish the face of a saint from an "idol"?
                1. Normal
                  Normal 15 July 2013 18: 03
                  +2
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  Why is it so difficult to distinguish the face of a saint from an "idol"?

                  Clear. What is "your" is a holy face, and what is not "your" is
                  idol, god, doodle, idol
                  Well, Alexander, let's wait until the Muslims, with the help of the Jews, capture Russia and explain to you how you were mistaken.
                  1. Vadivak
                    Vadivak 15 July 2013 21: 59
                    +3
                    Quote: Normal
                    Well, Alexander, let’s wait until the Muslims with the help of the Jews capture Russia,


                    I see. You’ll understand here, and we’ll go north.
                  2. Flooding
                    Flooding 16 July 2013 12: 15
                    0
                    Quote: Normal
                    Clear. What is "yours" is a holy face

                    Normal, okay, tell everyone about those wooden ... images that the Gentiles worship.
                    Christians know the image, they know the Saints and their life stories.
                    What do you know about "yours"?
                    1. Normal
                      Normal 17 July 2013 03: 21
                      0
                      Quote: Flood
                      Normal, okay, tell everyone about those wooden ... images that the Gentiles worship.

                      Orthodox Christians also worship "wooden images", icons are called.
                      Quote: Flood
                      Saints and their life stories.

                      Saints are people whom such people recognized as such. Neither one nor the other is a god, and you worship them, so who creates an idol for himself?
                      The stories of the lives of the saints do not inspire confidence in me, as they were written by people from the same structure.
                      Quote: Flood
                      What do you know about "yours"?

                      What is your Christian business? Go pray to your pictures on the wood and walls. I do not climb to you and you do not climb to me. What's not clear?
                      1. Flooding
                        Flooding 17 July 2013 11: 44
                        0
                        Quote: Normal
                        What is your Christian business? Go pray to your pictures on the wood and walls. I do not climb to you and you do not climb to me. What's not clear?

                        Exclusively explanatory answer. Not in content, of course. But in form.
                        That is what I expected to see.
                        Quote: Normal
                        The stories of the lives of the saints do not inspire confidence in me, as they were written by people from the same structure.

                        Did Velesov’s book fall on you from the moon?
                2. does it
                  does it 15 July 2013 18: 37
                  +2
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  Why is it so difficult to distinguish the face of a saint from an "idol"?

                  All that a person worships are all idols and idols. And my idols and idols are the people thanks to whom I now sit at the computer on the Internet, thanks to which I use all the benefits and "benefits" of our civilization, those who are trying to make our world a better place. hi
                  1. FRIGATE2
                    FRIGATE2 15 July 2013 20: 29
                    +3
                    Quote: kvirit
                    those who try to make our world a better place

                    For example, Thomas Edison, Nikolai Copernicus, Leo Tolstoy, Mendeleev and many of them. They have improved the world in the present direction and you are speaking correctly.
                    1. Flooding
                      Flooding 16 July 2013 12: 53
                      +1
                      Thomas Alva Edison:
                      “... My greatest respect and admiration is to all engineers, especially to the greatest of them - to God!”

                      Nikolai Copernicus:
                      “Intertwined with patience, my life was one joy. Although before the greatness of God I must confess: Almighty! We do not comprehend Him. He is great in power, judgment, and full of justice, but it seemed to me that I was following the footsteps of God. I feel my death is not far away, but it doesn’t scare me. Almighty God will find a different form of being for my spirit, will lead me along the path of eternity, as he leads a wandering star through the darkness of infinity. "I argued with people for the truth, but never with God, calmly awaiting the end of my measured time.”

                      Galileo Galilei:
                      “In the actions of nature, the Lord God is no less admirable to us than in the divine verses of Scripture.”

                      Mikhail Vasilievich Lomonosov:
                      “The Creator gave the human race two books. In one he showed His Majesty; in the other, His will. The first is the visible world, created by Him so that a person, looking at the vastness, beauty and harmony of his buildings, recognizes the Divine omnipotence, according to the faith of a given concept. The second book is scripture. It shows the Creator's blessing to our salvation. In these prophetic and apostolic inspired books, interpreters and expositors are great church teachers. And in this book of the addition of the visible world of this physics, mathematics, astronomers and other explicators of the Divine in the nature of the influences are the essence of what are the prophets, apostles and church teachers in this book. ”
                      1. Flooding
                        Flooding 16 July 2013 13: 05
                        +1
                        And that’s it ???
                        All the arguments were enough only for "minus" ???
                        I am disappointed...
                        However, no, I just expected more.
                        And the result is quite expected.
                        On a flimsy foundation, do not erect a strong building.
                  2. Flooding
                    Flooding 16 July 2013 12: 22
                    +1
                    Quote: kvirit
                    And my idols and idols are those people thanks to whom I now sit at the computer on the Internet, thanks to which I use all the benefits and "benefits" of our civilization, those who are trying to make our world a better place

                    Horror. Charley Kline, JCR Licklider, Charles Babbage ... The list is endless. As you only have time.
                    1. Flooding
                      Flooding 16 July 2013 13: 42
                      0
                      he does, but the saddest thing is not this.
                      You sing the "blessings of civilization" and exalt the transitory and vain.
                      But the most important thing you missed. Those thanks to whom we generally have the opportunity to breathe, drink, walk. Those who laid their heads for the Fatherland and for us. And how many were there, overshadowing themselves with a cross, look around.
              2. Vadivak
                Vadivak 15 July 2013 21: 23
                +3
                Quote: kvirit
                I went into a church shop somehow!


                Still, come sometimes, it's good, I also went in first, and then I stayed
            2. Normal
              Normal 15 July 2013 17: 28
              +1
              Quote: Vadivak
              Idol pagan idol, god, doodle, idol

              Vadim, I don’t touch yours. Why are you touching someone else's?
              1. Vadivak
                Vadivak 15 July 2013 20: 57
                +1
                Quote: Normal
                Vadim, I don’t touch yours. Why are you touching someone else's?


                Am I quoting a dictionary, a dictionary of fine art, by the way, or do you have others in the tribe?
                Here is Dahl’s idol dictionary - an image, a statue of a pagan deity --- an idol, idol or idiot. In my brief and clear. Or is Dahl not credible? |





                1. Normal
                  Normal 17 July 2013 03: 04
                  +1
                  Quote: Vadivak
                  or do you have others in the tribe?

                  Well, if you yourself are from a tribe, then do not judge by yourself.
                2. Normal
                  Normal 17 July 2013 03: 43
                  +1
                  Quote: Vadivak
                  Here is Dahl’s idol dictionary - an image, a statue of a pagan deity --- an idol, idol or idiot. In my brief and clear. Or is Dahl not credible? |

                  In matters of linguistics, unconditional authority.
                  But, if I'm not mistaken, then Dahl does not have a negative connotation of the description of the concept of idol. And you certainly have such a coloring, right?
                3. FRIGATE2
                  FRIGATE2 17 July 2013 07: 47
                  +2
                  Quote: Vadivak
                  Am I quoting a dictionary, a dictionary of fine art, by the way, or do you have others in the tribe?
                  Here is Dahl’s idol dictionary - an image, a statue of a pagan deity --- an idol, idol or idiot. In my brief and clear. Or is Dahl not credible? |

                  Where is the analysis of what Dahl described correctly, because he was a Dane in the service of the Republic of Ingushetia.
                  In my opinion, Dahl does not deserve authority in his science, just like Karamzin in his history.
                  When I read the meaning of the word "scarecrow" in Dal - from the word Chukchi, I generally doubted the competence of this person
        2. sashka
          sashka 15 July 2013 10: 53
          -4
          Quote: Vadivak
          Religion is a code of laws and human norms of behavior.

          And our "courts" look like this ..? There is someone to take an example from: Church authority with a watch for 30000 euros. Governors with yachts, and a crowd of "untouchable" defense services .. What can I think ?? Go to the "elections" .. There are always two options .. Yes or no .. Question and Putin does not know about it .. Let's laugh together. Three-volt and and "esaul" guys, you have staked out your place ... You are holmiks. ? Well admit it .. Pros and cons always give a plus. do you HAVE options? chatter no more .. You will answer, you will. Homik ... If you do not answer, then the "marshals" are not in order. Guys, do you keep track of something .. otherwise it's a shame ..
          1. Vadivak
            Vadivak 15 July 2013 14: 40
            +4
            Quote: Sasha
            .Church authority with a watch for 30000 euros


            That you have been given these euros, you either talk about Vera, then give examples of officials from the Russian Orthodox Church, these watches will still respond to him, do not hesitate
            1. FRIGATE2
              FRIGATE2 15 July 2013 20: 40
              +3
              Quote: Vadivak
              That you have been given these euros, you either talk about Vera, then give examples of officials from the Russian Orthodox Church, these watches will still respond to him, do not hesitate

              The classic hamster excuse of the Abramic religions.
              That is, in your opinion, the Church authorities or its representatives are pathetic crooks and cunning swindlers?
              Not I said, but you confirmed it. 2-0 in our favor with Sasha.
              Do not you put candles and listen to this church authority how to keep the post this season? Do you go on church holidays to pray in the official church?
          2. Uncle
            Uncle 15 July 2013 15: 02
            0
            Quote: Sasha
            Church authority with a watch for 30000 euros.

            This is a gift from the President. Not to wear means to offend a respected person.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. Vadivak
      Vadivak 15 July 2013 22: 58
      +2
      Quote: Deniska999
      The fact is that for Europe, religion has always been a cover.

      Sometimes they even admitted
      “Alexander the Great, August Caesar, Charlemagne and I myself founded huge empires. And on what basis did these creations of our geniuses take place? Based on violence. Only Jesus Christ founded His empire with love ... And be sure that they were all real people, but none of them was like Him; Jesus Christ is more than a man ... At a distance of one thousand eight hundred years, Jesus Christ presents a demand that is difficult to fulfill and exceeds all other requirements. He asks the human heart. "
      Napoleon Bonaparte
  6. vladsolo56
    vladsolo56 15 July 2013 08: 59
    10
    And what did they want, it all started with the submission of the United States and NATO back in Yugoslavia, it was there that Muslims with the support of NATO began to promote Islamization and the destruction of other religions. I am an atheist, but I believe that anyone has the right to choose. What is pursued by US policy is not clear.
  7. Parabelum
    Parabelum 15 July 2013 09: 00
    +5
    So they themselves have destroyed all the moral foundations of society, under the beautiful, but false words "democracy and freedom." As one American professor said, I do not remember his name: "Many people confuse 'freedom' with permissiveness." Let them remember the story of the fall of Rome, so to speak, for clarity. There, too, the utterly "free" society provoked the collapse of the Empire.
  8. Vadim-Skeptic
    Vadim-Skeptic 15 July 2013 09: 04
    +7
    In all respects: religious and with the self-preservation of the biological species - humanity, the Russian Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church should anathematize all this nu ... with tolerance and declare a Crusade against the enemies of the human race, because they are enemies. I understand European states - secular, but there must be common sense and sobriety of mind. It seems that Geyropa is under the dope ...
  9. IRBIS
    IRBIS 15 July 2013 09: 06
    13
    In the West, the Catholic Church has ceased to resist all this abomination, and sometimes it itself gives reason to doubt the purity of its own morals. The Russian Orthodox Church has become the only religious institution of true Christianity in the world. Personally, I am happy that on all these issues, state policy fully coincides with the policy of the church, and this gives a guarantee of the rejection of customs that are alien to us.
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 15 July 2013 09: 33
      16
      Quote: IRBIS
      . The Russian Orthodox Church has become the only religious institution of true Christianity in the world.


      The mountain is opposed to gay parades, same-sex marriages, all kinds of snacks, which very upsets some pagans supporters of Marat Gelman and Boris Berezovsky
      1. Uncle
        Uncle 15 July 2013 15: 05
        +1
        Quote: Vadivak
        upsets some pagans supporters of Marat Gelman and Boris Berezovsky

        You forgot one more charm, Trachtenberg. But do not be upset, God's broom sweeps cleanly, neither the mentioned Trakhtenberg and Berezovsky are no longer among the living. And of those who fought with the Church of the revolutionary period, almost no one died his death, that is, from old age, surrounded by grandchildren. Almost all were destroyed. Now is not the time, of course, but what we cannot do is done by the Lord, calling these bastards to account.
        1. Vadivak
          Vadivak 15 July 2013 21: 42
          +1
          Quote: Uncle
          And of the fighters with the Church of the revolutionary period, almost no one died his death,

          That yes

          Tukhachevsky, for example, advocated the destruction of Christianity and the restoration of ancient paganism. Already after the October Revolution, Tukhachevsky and Zhilyaev sent a note to the Council of People's Commissars with a proposal to declare paganism the state religion of the RSFSR.

          But his party comrades ate him. However, like his bibliographer Zhilyaev
    2. Dejavu
      Dejavu 15 July 2013 10: 47
      +4
      Catholics along the way generally decided to show by their own example how they relate to gays. Sometimes they are very direct. In vain they are not allowed to marry. But in general I completely agree, Orthodox Christianity has become the last bastion of moral purity in this world. May God grant such and will remain otherwise Armageddon as in the book of Revelation.
  10. stalkerwalker
    stalkerwalker 15 July 2013 09: 08
    +4
    Since the overwhelming Christian population of Europe is Catholics and Protestants, and the Catholic Church, not particularly embarrassed, blesses same-sex marriages (and the "clergy" themselves do not disdain such relationships, including a special love for children of all ages, starting with newborns), what kind of to be a reaction from representatives of other faiths?
    And you can recall the prophecy of M. Nostradamus about the war between the Christian (?) North and the Islamic South ...
    1. The comment was deleted.
  11. The gentleman
    The gentleman 15 July 2013 09: 12
    +1
    Of course, I may not be right, moreover, I am far from religion, but what does the Christian church as a whole want? because it was the clergy who made it possible to separate the concepts of "spirituality" and "democratic permissiveness". in addition, representatives of religion, by their actions, instill distrust of ordinary people in them and religion in general.
    however, to my words there is a counterargument that in a secular state religion should not interfere in politics. but it's all on paper, in general, even if you take the smallest example, who does a simple person believe: the state or faith? I think the answer will not keep you waiting.
    The Vatican itself is a corrupt organization, which, behind the mask of faith, carries out serious business in all areas.
    this happens not only in Christianity, but also in Islam. but at the same time, Islam still has a tough stance and which is hard to change.
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 15 July 2013 09: 48
      +3
      Quote: Gentleman
      The Vatican itself is a corrupt organization,


      Well, separate it from Christianity as a whole
  12. _Igor_
    _Igor_ 15 July 2013 09: 14
    +3
    Prokhanov is right, who recently said: "Here we are now ... present at the process of creating the world dictatorship of the pederasts."
    100500
  13. FunkschNNX
    FunkschNNX 15 July 2013 09: 15
    +3
    If this was the end of the era of obscurantism, I would be for it. But so far it does not look like a fight against religion, but like a fight against Christianity. Perhaps Muslims for the time being simply do not conflict with the authorities on the basis of their struggle against clericalism, but in fact it turns out that they quietly fill the vacuum that creates actions on the Christian territory in Europe with their actions. And not only in Europe, in Russia, passions are no less heated, Sysoev Daniel would confirm this if he could. Religious wars never ended, and they are now in full swing. The wealthy Arab monarchies will never give up the spread of Islam, and they do not care about our arguments, they build their caliphate and it’s okay if it is built on the bones of infidels.
  14. Whale
    Whale 15 July 2013 09: 28
    -10 qualifying.
    100.000 Christians die for one reason or another related to their faith. They are being killed.

    And in Russia, 1000 people die from reform a year and no one goes to vote
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 15 July 2013 09: 46
      +5
      Quote: Whale
      And in Russia, 1000 people die from reform a year and no one goes to vote


      And who did the reformers not think about?
      1. Normal
        Normal 15 July 2013 17: 31
        0
        Quote: Vadivak
        And who did the reformers not think about?

        Yes, not really pagans? belay
        1. Vadivak
          Vadivak 15 July 2013 21: 54
          +2
          Quote: Normal
          Yes, not really pagans?


          You have megalomania in my opinion
          1. Normal
            Normal 17 July 2013 03: 02
            +1
            Quote: Vadivak
            You have megalomania in my opinion

            No more than yours.
        2. Seraph
          Seraph 16 July 2013 04: 14
          -1
          Generally not a topic ...
    2. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 15 July 2013 09: 52
      +4
      Quote: Whale
      And in Russia, 1000 people die from reform a year and no one goes to vote

      It is from reforms, huh?
      1. Parabelum
        Parabelum 15 July 2013 10: 18
        +4
        Yes, no, Putin personally walks and spanks everyone
  15. nikkon09
    nikkon09 15 July 2013 09: 45
    +3
    In Ireland, churches are forced to hold same-sex ceremonies. Yeah, they were forced to torture ... But it seems the church should preach the purity of the human soul, and not follow the perverts. And now we need to do so that perversion does not become the norm, let’s let the weakness be worse.
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 15 July 2013 09: 56
      +6
      Quote: nikkon09
      .Aha forced to torture ... But it seems the church should preach the purity of the human soul, and not go on about the perverts


      You are not in the subject, they will not crown homosexuals

      Ireland's Catholic bishops have warned that the church will not be able to fulfill its civic duty if a change is made to the legal definition of marriage as the union of a man and a woman. Marriage is not a private shop, but "a social institution that has developed mainly in the interests of raising children," the bishops write.
      1. Uncle
        Uncle 15 July 2013 15: 10
        +1
        Quote: Vadivak
        The Catholic bishops of Ireland warned that the church would not be able to fulfill its civic duty if the legal definition of marriage, as a union of a man and a woman, was amended.

        That's what the Irish and the British are fighting, a more serious reason.
  16. My address
    My address 15 July 2013 09: 55
    +1
    It is not clear what in the West, especially in Europe, they are pursuing geization, juvenalization, Islamization and the like. Tops of the West do not look moronic. Clearly understand that this leads to death.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 15 July 2013 10: 06
      +3
      Quote: My address
      The Upper West is not like moronic

      Are you sure about that?
      FEMEN leader became a prototype of the symbol of France - Marianne
      PARIS, Jul 14 - RIA Novosti. French President Francois Hollande on Sunday presented to the public the country's main postage stamp with an updated symbol of the French Republic - Marianne, one of the prototypes for the creation of which was the leader of the FEMEN movement Inna Shevchenko
      Details: http://news.mail.ru/politics/13900641/
    2. Vadivak
      Vadivak 15 July 2013 10: 12
      +8
      Quote: My address
      The upper West does not look like moronic. They clearly understand that this leads to death.


      They are not moronic, they are corrupted, but debauchery has one way, remember the pagan Roman Empire - the deepest contempt and aversion to work. Labor was the lot of slaves and poor. Can you imagine who the carpenter is for them, saving the world?

      And the pagan Hellas with boys and centers of fornication gymnasium? Abomination
      1. My address
        My address 15 July 2013 11: 24
        0
        Do you mean following the adage: "Better to walk than to run. Better to stand than to walk. Better to sit than to stand. Better to lie than to sit. Better to die than to lie." That the pursuit of freedom and pleasure indiscriminately leads to death? I thought about it. But it’s hard to believe that they don’t calculate the results in two or three generations. And it does not fit with the establishment of hidden total control. Or are very powerful forces acting in different directions?
      2. Normal
        Normal 15 July 2013 18: 20
        +1
        Quote: Vadivak
        They are not moronic, they are depraved, but debauchery has one way, remember the pagan Roman Empire - the deepest contempt and aversion to work.

        I would like to remember that it doesn’t work, I didn’t live then.
        I live now. In Russia, where the Russian Orthodox Church is a state denomination (well, it seems to me, or am I mistaken?) And in Russia there is no deepest contempt for work among the rich and successful. In Russia there is no aversion to work among the wide layers of the once working people. Labor in Russia is not the destiny of poor and economic slaves. There is no debauchery in Russia. And the boys in Russia do not use rich uncles, but exclusively treat them with chocolates. There is no abomination in Russia, but only grace.
    3. people
      people 15 July 2013 10: 38
      +2
      Well, it is incomprehensible that a system of total tracking and control over humanity is being built, they are preparing the arrival of the Antichrist with the money of the Rockefellers, Rothschilds and other champions of Satan. They make similar laws of the corrupted, which only need to have fun and a well-fed belly. Where is there a place for God and conscience
  17. Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 15 July 2013 10: 04
    +2
    Any religion, sooner or later, goes through the stages of formation, flourishing, and then slowly dies. So it was with paganism, try in ancient Rome to doubt paganism and call to pray to some Jewish God, then if within the first five minutes your head is not cut off, then in five you would be in the warm company of a lion in the circus arena. If you told any Roman that in the future he would not worship Jupiter or Mars, etc., but a crucified Jew with his Jewish monotheistic ideas, he either laughed at a good joke , or he began to swear and shout that he would never betray the Faith of the Fathers. Then paganism happily left. And now the good Christians are dragging a pagan to the fire, or who doubts that the Earth is the center of the universe, they slaughter Muslims and Jews in Jerusalem, enthusiastically chase witches around all over Europe, in some places to the horror of Napoleon until the end of the 18th century. Those who doubt the Greatness of the Faith of Christ or who have retreated a little, like the Templars, a cozy fire awaits. Try, say then, on the street somewhere in Catalonia, whatin the future, either they don’t believe in God at all, or they hold gay pride parades and praise it in every possible way as “progress,” the sympathetic attention of the inquisitorial fathers and a cozy fire is guaranteed. and schismatic. Of course, even now there are "Romans" who will shout that they say "Never !!!, Never !!!, I will not betray my faith!" All this has already happened, and more than once. Alas, only that completely, with some reservations, acceptable Christianity is being replaced by something absolutely alien and vile.
    1. Dejavu
      Dejavu 15 July 2013 10: 59
      +4
      Do not mix Catholicism and Christianity in one bucket. The whole history of the Western church after separation is filled with elements of the struggle for power. Some indulgences and the Inquisition with the Crusades are worth it. The Crusaders went to the already Christianized Russia, which in itself is a significant act.

      The main Christianity (Eastern, and now called Orthodox) has never denigrated itself globally. There were incidents with individual priests and other apostates, but in general we never shed blood in the name of Christ, either on our land or on someone else's. And even more so did not say God bless Russia, collecting troops for intervention somewhere.
      1. Standard Oil
        Standard Oil 15 July 2013 13: 46
        +2
        It’s just that in Kievan Rus they enthusiastically slaughtered each other, there was no concern for others.
    2. Ka3ak
      Ka3ak 19 July 2013 00: 21
      0
      You are wrong 'paganism is religiously tolerant because it is polytheistic. There is no teaching about Truth in it, the principle triumphs, you will marry, everything will come in handy. Statues of idols from all over the empire were brought to Rome and it was believed that thereby Rome acquired the protection of new gods. Pagan Mongolia was deeply violet on the religious views of the Russians. They knew their gods were lucky. Truth is what helps you to live now, gives good in this life. And not for what they sacrifice their lives. Christianity, having appeared, broke this system with the blood of its martyrs, who did not want to betray the Truth for any good, which caused a terrible dissonance in some rotten heads.
  18. treskoed
    treskoed 15 July 2013 10: 10
    +2

    In Ireland, churches are forced to conduct same-sex ceremonies.

    In Denmark, parliament has already approved a law according to which the Evangelical Lutheran Church must enter into homosexual “marriages”,

    And are they Christians too?
  19. Bakunin
    Bakunin 15 July 2013 10: 11
    +2
    Quote: Sasha
    Quote: Bakunin
    to worship pieces of wood and throw up a hand "from the heart to the sun"? no thanks.

    It’s not a question .. Put candles and pray .. And suddenly you’ll get lucky or blow it .. The Russians always believed and hoped only for MYSELF. WE WERE NOT GIVEN OTHER OPTIONS. And now everyone is scared, and suddenly RISE ... Headache in full ...


    I will not put a candle and pray - I'm an atheist =) Everyone chooses who to pray for (and whether to pray at all). No need to plant. Always been categorically against it.
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 15 July 2013 10: 18
      +6
      Quote: Bakunin
      No need to plant.


      I agree. I know for myself.
  20. Dejavu
    Dejavu 15 July 2013 10: 14
    +5
    Forcing the * CHRISTIAN churches to pedril at the legislative level, it is mandatory for Muslims to force them to eat pork when they receive a passport. What nonsense !? This violates all the canons of the church and their own charters.

    Cannibalism will soon be legalized in this fucking gayrop. After all, the hearts of their wards in Syria are eating, so why not. They are free people, they do and eat what and who they want. The Dutch, on the other hand, created a batch of pedophiles ... In general, insanity grows stronger and will still be. You’ll see the next president of the United States or the German Chancellor will definitely be fag * dor. So I’m directly convinced. Segregation is already yesterday. Homodricks enter the arena.

    Gentlemen, comrades, I declare with all responsibility that I am the happiest person in the world! I live in a country where I sincerely hate and mutter pi * dorov (including police fellow ), Orthodoxy is practically a state religion and it is rather encouraged than censured, we all wear a cross on your chest or a tire from Kirovets on your chest because you are FREE. It turns out that I had to survive the collapse of totalitarian Russia, in order to finally understand what freedom is. In Europe, however, immersion in moral anarchy begins and the payment for it will be very severe. Madmen in a word.

    Putin and subsequent leaders, keep our moral boundaries locked away from this Geyropei plague and their ideals, their mother.
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 15 July 2013 10: 33
      +3
      Quote: dejavu
      Forcing the * CHRISTIAN churches to pedril at the legislative level, it is mandatory for Muslims to force them to eat pork when they receive a passport.


      Five points
  21. Valery-SPB
    Valery-SPB 15 July 2013 10: 21
    +3
    "The Christian Orthodox faith was accepted from the Greeks, when the Church of Christ was still one ... But the enemy of the human race did not sleep. Seduced by the evil one, they followed the lead of the prince of this world, Western Christians began to introduce various innovations and in 1054 fell away from the Church of Christ. So the first Rome fell.

    Then the departed Catholics began to seduce the Greeks, and those oppressed by the external enemy, the Ottoman Turks, made a political compromise, betraying their faith - they concluded the Florence Union with the Pope in 1439 ... and in retaliation for the apostasy of the Greeks in 1453 fell and Second Rome ...

    The last stronghold of the Orthodox faith in the world remained: the Third Rome - Moscow ... But the dark forces did not like such a prosperity of piety and holiness. "Satan asked God for bright Russia, and he would mark the martyr's blood," wrote Archpriest Avakum "(quoted from Old Believer l-re).

    "People were one community, and Allah sent the prophets as messengers and exhortations and sent down with them the scripture with the truth ... to judge between the people in what they disagreed with. And only those to whom it was granted dispersed after they came to clear signs to them, out of malice among themselves (Sura 2. "The Cow", 209 (213).

    However, the process continues. Where are the roots?
    PS those who see the machinations of gays, etc. The Roman Catholic Church recognized in its bowels the facts of sodomy and debauchery of minors by clergy.
  22. deman73
    deman73 15 July 2013 10: 30
    +2
    Geyropa has long gone mad and this will not bring her to good, but we need to confront this world craziness up to the shooting of rambling gayropeytsy
  23. Hellriker
    Hellriker 15 July 2013 10: 37
    +3
    And this is what happens if the roosters are allowed to raise their heads. Instead of quietly hammering each other in a drunk, fagots impose their perversions on everyone and flaunt them. At the same time, they also require privileges and benefits for their ugliness. It's scary for the children.
  24. Sergey S.
    Sergey S. 15 July 2013 11: 04
    +4
    Quote: Vadivak

    They are not moronic, they are corrupted, but debauchery has one way, remember the pagan Roman Empire - the deepest contempt and aversion to work. Labor was the lot of slaves and poor. Can you imagine who the carpenter is for them, saving the world?
    And the pagan Hellas with boys and centers of fornication gymnasium? Abomination

    Paganism has nothing to do with it.
    The point is a certain phase in the development of a social idea or society itself.
    At the initial stage, when an idea or a common development develops, the eternal values ​​of the highest content are professed. So it was with the Greeks, Christians, Communists, Muslims ...
    Then, a crisis is brewing in every idea and in every society, and here the most negative phenomena are manifested in a part of society.
    It is important that common sense and responsibility remain.
    Lack of reason and responsibility leads to public disaster.
    What we observe in history in the late development of Rome, medieval monarchies, ancient pagan cults ...
    A similar thing happened with the USSR - the main catastrophe of the world in the history of mankind.
    Now that profit and selfishness have triumphed over equality and collective labor, the abominations of liberalism (capitalism), like metastases, have crawled to places where, as you think, it was not originally intended: to Western states, Christianity, family ...

    In fact, they are not sorry.
    But in Russia, especially with our historical experience, this infection must be eradicated.
    It is to eradicate.
    I am not an Orthodox practitioner and against the law on the protection of the feelings of believers, but I believe that believers themselves should protect their feelings. The main defense is public morality.
    And when "do not steal", "do not kill" and "do not commit adultery" win everywhere, then paradise (communism) will come.
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 15 July 2013 11: 36
      +3
      Quote: Sergey S.
      Lack of reason and responsibility leads to public disaster.


      Reason devoid of restrictions, that is, free from morality, leads to public disaster. This is precisely what the pagan religion led to, encouraging the debauchery of Rome and Greece.



      APHRODITE Goddess of love and sensuality. Aphrodite emerged from the sea foam generated by the severed genitals of the castrated god Uranus at the time of their fall into the ocean.

      Where is morality, love for one's neighbor, family?
      1. FRIGATE2
        FRIGATE2 15 July 2013 21: 05
        +2
        Quote: Vadivak
        APHRODITE Goddess of love and sensuality. Aphrodite emerged from the sea foam generated by the severed genitals of the castrated god Uranus at the time of their fall into the ocean.

        Where have you read this?
        Adam - from clay and sacred fire and where is the moral?
        1. Ka3ak
          Ka3ak 16 July 2013 00: 53
          +1
          I'll try to explain ...
          In the original, the text sounds like this
          "And the Lord God created man out of the dust of the earth, and breathed into his face the breath of life, and man became a living soul" (Genesis 2: 7)
          Not a single creature is said in this way. This breath of the breath of life is spirit. Which makes the image of the Creator. It gives everything that is unique that distinguishes us from the unity of created being tied to the determinism of cause and effect.

          These words show the greatness that man was endowed with in his creation. The seal is the distorted seal of this greatness we are wearing now. As a potentiality we carry in ourselves, and we really do nothing to develop it to the likeness of God ... That’s what morality is. Maybe he missed something ... The biblical texts are extremely deep.
  25. Alexanderlaskov
    Alexanderlaskov 15 July 2013 11: 28
    +3
    Is it possible to go to church where a homosexual crowns? couples. This is no longer a church.
    1. Ka3ak
      Ka3ak 16 July 2013 00: 56
      +1
      Alas, I'm afraid first they had a "non-church", and then they started to marry homosexuals ...
      The secularization of the Church is a terrible thing, it nests in everyone's heart, and these are the "wonderful" fruits it brings. Evil triumphs, someone is glad, someone doesn't care. But because God has ceased to be felt ...
      God forbid us the same ...
      1. Yarosvet
        Yarosvet 16 July 2013 02: 20
        -2
        Quote: KA3AK
        God forbid us the same ...


        http://amin.su/content/analitika/9/562/


  26. Isk1984
    Isk1984 15 July 2013 11: 30
    +4
    In fact, Christians and Muslims don’t take offense at me, today society hurts and we (they already have more), all this throwing at religious dogmas, especially youth is just an attempt to find oneself, there is no ideology of moving forward like in the USSR, the world is coming down they sincerely believe sincerely, about 2-3 percent of the so-called believers are the rest, so it’s not faith anymore, but superstition as in the Stone Age .... But let’s say let's say that there are atheists in the West, but it’s not simple, without the idea of ​​a roar in the future so guzzling and w ... e nonsense without morality and principles, how can you compare them with the youth of the USSR with their ideals of a breakthrough into the future to the stars, but they would be sick at the sight of the modern world order .... it's time Russia again to save this crazy World
    1. Ka3ak
      Ka3ak 16 July 2013 01: 06
      0
      It's time! ) The main thing
      = A =. Save yourself first. Because as soon as you save yourself you can save others. (Save esnno from evil.)
      = B =. See the right stars and the right future, which is decided through point A.
      Everything can start implementation, right tomorrow! :)
      Everyone starting with himself. It’s time ... and then I personally sabotage this plan for 20 years ....
  27. DenisBogomolov
    DenisBogomolov 15 July 2013 11: 54
    +3
    A fundamentally important aspect of ANY formed religious and philosophical system is the presence of clear, understandable, clear to anyone moral and ethical coordinates, prohibitions and taboos ... And it does not matter at all what kind of religion it is: Christianity, Islam, Buddhism or polytheism. Moral restrictions either exist and must be observed, or not - and then it is not a religion at all ... Modern, supposedly, atheism is not BELIEVE IN THE ABSENCE OF GOD, it is in the overwhelming majority of cases an "indulgence" of permissiveness, cynicism and elementary disrespect for relation to others. Alas, the number of real atheists, people capable of self-restraint, people with high morals is negligible: mostly, unfortunately, those who consider themselves atheists are often simply "off the chain." I believe that if a person chooses an atheistic worldview for himself, he should be aware of all the responsibility that falls on him. Being a true atheist is no less difficult inner work than being a true believer ...
    1. agbykov
      agbykov 15 July 2013 13: 06
      0
      Why do "real atheists" need self-restraint and high moral standards? There is no sense in "difficult inner work" ... There is no God, no afterlife, no judgment ... Atheism is the belief that there is no God. Faith, because there is no way to prove that there is no God (at least from the fact that the universe is infinite). Faith is hopeless, terrible and anti-human. Usually used by people to justify their iniquity. As Dostoevsky asked through the lips of one of his characters: "If there is no God, then everything is allowed?"
      1. Yarosvet
        Yarosvet 15 July 2013 16: 18
        0
        Quote: agbykov
        Atheism is the belief that there is no God.

        Atheism is a lack of faith.

        As Dostoevsky asked through the lips of one of his characters: "If there is no God, then everything is allowed?"

        And if you ever make sure that there is no God - will this mean for you that everything is possible? laughing

        Children who think that since there is no god, then everything is possible - a place in a psychiatric hospital.
        1. Ka3ak
          Ka3ak 15 July 2013 22: 45
          +2
          Quote: Yarosvet

          Atheism is a lack of faith.


          Oh, so maybe you have evidence of not being God? ) If they are not, then it is still the belief that He is not.

          Quote: Yarosvet

          Children who think that since there is no god, then everything is possible - a place in a psychiatric hospital.

          The trouble is that you do not see the philosophical level ... Alas, atheists are extremely blind. I am amazed at the history of the USSR ... All my life they taught that there is no God and Eternity, and therefore they sincerely wonder why the people in the 70-90s chose sausage and chewing gum instead of truth ... Indeed, how is it? ...
          But this is not about that. Purely from a philosophical point of view, the absence of the Absolute means that you can do whatever you want. The truth is what you consider to be true. Whatever a lie it may actually be, the subjective choice of the individual becomes the only basis for truth.
          That's what it is about. Please consider this.
          1. Yarosvet
            Yarosvet 16 July 2013 00: 12
            -1
            Quote: KA3AK
            Oh, so maybe you have evidence of not being God? ) If they are not, then it is still the belief that He is not.
            There is no God - the cat the God-eater ate him. You dare to try to prove that the cat of the God-eater does not exist?

            Atheism is a worldview based on scientific data, historical experience and common sense, which reduce the likelihood of the existence of something called "god" to zero.
            And since the probability is close to zero, before the advent of new data confirming the opposite, it is fair to say that there is no Mystical creator.

            The trouble is that you do not see the philosophical level ... Alas, atheists are extremely blind.
            Here I saw an unfounded statement, but something I didn’t notice.

            I am amazed at the history of the USSR ... All my life they taught that there is no God and Eternity, and therefore they sincerely wonder why the people in the 70-90s chose sausage and chewing gum instead of truth ...
            I am amazed at the history of Russia and the Russian Empire ... For a thousand years they taught that God and eternity exist, dictated how to live, uprooting any alternative opinions, and then wondered why people chose the truth instead of slavery.

            Purely from a philosophical point of view, the absence of the Absolute means that you can do whatever you want.
            Only in terms of moral monster.

            The truth is what you consider to be true.
            This point of view is characteristic of one who believes.

            the only basis for truth is the subjective choice of the individual.
            With this phrase you perfectly described the psychology of any religious person - even I would not have been able to. Bravo! good

            Please consider this.
            1. Ka3ak
              Ka3ak 17 July 2013 00: 14
              +1
              Quote: Yarosvet
              There is no God - the cat the God-eater ate him. You dare to try to prove that the cat of the God-eater does not exist?

              Oh, how difficult it is with you :) You have just voiced yet another faith. How can it be refuted? Is that to show her insanity ... You understand, we believe, we know that. Therefore, we have no evidence, we put up with this and, moreover, see in this the high plan of God, Who does not want to force 100% of evidence on the free will of man. You apparently do not realize your faith (that there is no God), as well as the very essence of the issue. Why not refute anything, the existence of God is a matter of faith, not evidence, it is objective.


              Quote: Yarosvet
              Atheism is a worldview based on scientific data, historical experience and common sense, which reduce the likelihood of the existence of something called "god" to zero.
              And since the probability is close to zero, before the advent of new data confirming the opposite, it is fair to say that there is no Mystical creator.

              )) Sorry, but this is naive. Your conception is inclined to interpret one set of facts in one direction, our, let’s say, another and in another, scientific theories are nothing more than probable models of objective reality.
              What nullifies the existence of the Creator? A groundless hypothesis (not even a theory) about the spontaneous generation of life on earth? I do not want to upset you, but even a full-fledged proven theory of spontaneous generation of life is not able to reduce to 0 the probability of actions in the Creator’s world. This will not do any harm to the doctrine of the transcendental God the Creator, which was preached long before the pseudo-scientific attacks on religion ... You see, we initially believe in the separation of the created world from the Creator, this makes the question of the existence of God a matter of faith.
              And about historical experience ... it's just ridiculous. Not a single unbeliever nation was found.
              :) Yes, and common sense is also lame ... To say that the clear laws by which our universe functions are not laws, but an accident. This is the height of common sense, it seems to me. This is nonsense. If randomness is the basis, then all the consequences are not regularity, but randomness.


              Quote: Yarosvet
              Here I saw an unfounded statement, but something I didn’t notice.

              And what went below does not fit? ... Hmm ... Why is an atheist philosophy at all? Why does the animal (homo sapiens) need philosophy? He needs to adapt to the changing environmental conditions as quickly and as best as possible in order to increase the chance of his own survival and guarantee the spread of his own ... but by the way, this is no longer important. Indeed, why is the art of searching for truth to those who decide that truth does not exist ...? One must be consistent all the same. They said A, we must say B. We said no, everything around us is a series of accidents, we must say B too - truth does not exist, but the search for truth, there is only the search for the most successful adaptation to the external environment.
            2. Ka3ak
              Ka3ak 17 July 2013 00: 16
              0
              I am amazed at the history of the USSR ... All my life they taught that there is no God and Eternity, and therefore they sincerely wonder why the people in the 70-90s chose sausage and chewing gum instead of truth ...

              Quote: Yarosvet
              I am amazed at the history of Russia and the Russian Empire ... For a thousand years they taught that God and eternity exist, dictated how to live, uprooting any alternative opinions, and then wondered why people chose the truth instead of slavery.

              ))) It's funny. Truth does not exist see above)
              But I'm talking about something else. No one was surprised if you knew history better, then doubts would have known that the events of 1917 were predicted by all and sundry. From John of Kronstadt to Fedor Mikhailovich Dostoevsky. And they wrote that the Tsar put the Church on its knees, for this to lose the throne. Everything is logical and everything was calculated before the events.
              What is the truth? )) The fact that the evil kings, the boyars of the priests deprived the poor Russian people of sweets?
              Do you want the truth? The truth is that for about 100 years, how exactly did the revolution in Russia purposefully prepare and educate among the intelligentsia more successfully (with the complete absence of the brains of this social stratum) among the peasantry and workers much less successfully. And the ideas of terror and the ideas of deceiving an uneducated people still bloomed from the Decembrists. All the prominent leaders of the Bolsheviks and SRs quietly spent time in the RI prisons, so when they came to power they decided not to give political opponents a chance. The bullet is more reliable.

              Quote: Yarosvet
              Only in terms of moral monster.

              Absolutely right! But you forget the rules of the game. There is no moral common to all in the absence of the Absolute. Man to man can be a moral freak, because there is no Absolute. There is no truth and truth. Billions of people are people, their opinions are billions times billions, because today he thinks differently tomorrow. But the truth does not exist.
              Quote: Yarosvet
              The truth is what you consider to be true.
              This point of view is characteristic of one who believes.

              Excuse me, are you an adequate person or not? Did you understand that I was not setting forth my views, but drawing logical conclusions from your statement that there is no God? Do you understand this?
              If you are interested in what I personally am beginning to doubt, the logic that follows from the statement that God is. I can voice it. Truth is God. And we are involved in the truth, only to the extent that we are involved in God. Their personal truths for a believer are a lie and, moreover, are considered to be the product of the one who is called the father of lies.

              Quote: Yarosvet
              With this phrase you perfectly described the psychology of any religious person - even I would not have been able to. Bravo! good

              See what was written above. The theses presented were a continuation of the statement of God no. If you do not understand this ... Then this is an extra confirmation of the philosophical abilities of the opponents of the Absolute. Sorry, but I see this as objectivity.
            3. agbykov
              agbykov 23 July 2013 16: 16
              0
              Science, for your information, does not deal with questions of evidence of the presence / absence of God. So there can be no scientific data about this ... But following a scientific approach to evidence (there is a hypothesis, a way to test it must be provided, which can be independently and repeatedly repeated) you yourself can personally learn the Truth: try to go through spiritual life passed by millions of the most intelligent people, cleanse your heart, as the holy saints cleansed it, and "the pure in heart will see God" ...

              By the way, your hypothesis about the cat the God-eater from the point of view of science is a fantasy, since it is not verifiable ...
    2. Yarosvet
      Yarosvet 15 July 2013 16: 13
      0
      Quote: DenisBogomolov
      And it doesn’t matter at all what religion it is: Christianity, Islam, Buddhism or polytheism.

      This is what they bring to this laughing

      And for obvious reasons, it’s not a polytheism or Buddhism that is proposed as a role model.
  28. Gomunkul
    Gomunkul 15 July 2013 12: 18
    0
    Christianity reaps the fruits of its teaching if one of the commandments says: "hit on the right cheek, turn the left." So it turns out that they are beaten by all and sundry. hi
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 15 July 2013 14: 34
      +7
      Quote: Gomunkul
      "hit on the right cheek, substitute the left" So it turns out that they are beaten by all and sundry. ...


      How simple it is. And simplicity is known to be worse than theft

      This phrase has such an interpretation - be able to firmly endure the blows of fate, and having sustained everything, strike right with the jaw

      There is also another read the Catholic book "Do not rush to forgive"

      "Why does Jesus emphasize exactly the right cheek? Imagine that you are an unfortunate slave in ancient Palestine, and you are standing in front of a master who is going to hit you. He cannot hit you with his left hand, since it is intended only for performing unclean work. just hit you with the right. With his fist or the palm of his right hand, he cannot hit you on the right cheek, because in that case he would have to twist or somehow direct his hand. Therefore, wanting to hit you on the right cheek, he will have to to do it the other way around - with the outside of the palm. In the time of Jesus, the blow with the outside of the palm had a special meaning. This gesture was used only by people with greater power, wanting to humiliate the weaker. The outside of the owner's palm beat their slaves, the Romans beat Jews, men beat their wives, and parents - children. ”Thus they said:" Know your place ... you are below me. "
      If, having obeyed the words of the Gospel, you turn the other cheek (left), then the owner, who is obliged to beat only with his right hand, will no longer be able to beat with the back of his hand. Wanting to punch again, he will have to punch. However, only people equal to each other fought on fists. Therefore, by turning the other cheek, you regain your dignity and show that you will not let yourself be humiliated. At the same time, you encourage the owner not to forget about his own true dignity and make him understand that he bases his life on the misconception that some people are inferior to others. And you do all this without hitting back, without using violence. "
      1. Rosomaha67
        Rosomaha67 15 July 2013 14: 38
        +1
        .... thanks, informative wink
      2. Gomunkul
        Gomunkul 15 July 2013 15: 00
        +6
        A normal person does not need to read relevant books in order to live normally, for this he has - a conscience (unfortunately not found in everyone), which blinks him to live in the world around him. hi
        1. Ka3ak
          Ka3ak 15 July 2013 22: 36
          +1
          You are wrong, because the taste and color of all the markers are different.
          Imagine a situation. A book is the whole source of information. We clean it. Each lives his own mind. Great. But you don’t think that we are more often mistaken than we are doing the right thing. More often we regret ourselves, we follow our own circumstances, we don’t notice mistakes. We distort our own conscience. In the absence of the ideal described in the book. Norms will be inherited, to put it mildly, not of the first freshness. And the descendants, without a standard, will disfigure the workpiece further, not being able to compare how true. (In most cases this is the case, exceptions certainly happen, but these are exceptions)
      3. FRIGATE2
        FRIGATE2 15 July 2013 21: 12
        +1
        Quote: Vadivak
        Why is Jesus emphasizing the right cheek? Imagine that you are an unfortunate slave in ancient Palestine, and you are standing in front of a master who is about to hit you. He cannot hit you with his left hand, since it is intended only for performing impure work. He only has to hit you with his right. With a fist or the palm of his right hand, he cannot hit you on the right cheek, because in that case he would have to twist or somehow direct his hand. Therefore, wanting to hit you on the right cheek, he will have to do it the other way around - with the outside of his hand. In the time of Jesus, a blow with the outside of the hand had a special meaning. This gesture was used only by people with more power, wanting to humiliate the weaker. The master beat their slaves with the outside of the hand, the Romans beat the Jews, the men beat their wives, and the parents beat their children. Thus they said: "Know your place ... you are below me."
        If, obeying the words of the Gospel, you turn the other cheek (left), then the owner, obliged to beat only with his right hand, will no longer be able to hit with the back of his hand. Wanting to strike again, he would have to punch. However, only equal people fought on fists. Therefore, turning the other cheek, you regain dignity and show that you will not let yourself be humiliated. At the same time, you encourage the owner not to forget about his own true dignity and let him know that he bases his life on a misconception that some people are lower than others. And all this you do, without striking back, without using violence

        Oh, how many verbal beleberds you have, you are a demagogue like President Putin and like Fedorov. They also shout that the country is in occupation, save who can.
        You, too, scream, but finally, believe me, the unfortunate infidel. Let not in verbal form, but in an indirect understanding of your texts
    2. does it
      does it 15 July 2013 21: 37
      +1
      Quote: Gomunkul
      Christianity reaps the fruits of its teaching if one of the commandments says: "hit on the right cheek, turn the left." So it turns out that they are beaten by all and sundry.

      In Russia, it reaped the fruits of its creativity in 1917. And before that, it did not turn the cheek to anyone. It beat back itself. In the form of laws for "religious" crimes. And nowadays it is a good profitable tax-free business, as well as state control over the masses through religion. You can understand a simple people. , and the state! as they say "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" and here you need a middle ground!
      1. Ka3ak
        Ka3ak 16 July 2013 00: 43
        0
        Quote: kvirit

        In Russia, it reaped the fruits of its creativity in 1917. And before that, it did not turn the cheek to anyone. It beat back itself. In the form of laws for "religious" crimes. And nowadays it is a good profitable tax-free business, as well as state control over the masses through religion. You can understand a simple people. , and the state! as they say "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" and here you need a middle ground!

        So curious) Can you tell me the methods that the Church uses in order to provide the state with control over the masses? )
        You are probably very far from the Church, because you do not wonder how exactly hierarchs can manage at least something in the life of the state, if their contact with believers should be concentrated in spiritual matters and only in spiritual ones.
    3. Ka3ak
      Ka3ak 16 July 2013 00: 24
      -1
      You should get to know the Christian teaching better)) Alas, this is a statement, you are not competent in it. For you boldly confuse the transfer of personal insults and trampling the truth into the mud. These words refer to interpersonal relationships and nothing more. The person offended you - I'm sorry, I'm completely sorry. And not to indifference during the cursing of the truth, clogging before evil, non-resistance to evil, violence ... For this I ask everyone to the Tolstoyans.
  29. Alexanderlaskov
    Alexanderlaskov 15 July 2013 12: 25
    +1
    Catholics fell away from Orthodoxy. They have already departed from the truth. Then things will get worse and worse.
  30. does it
    does it 15 July 2013 13: 55
    0
    arranges gay holidays at the CIA and the Pentagon
    Where does this awareness come from? article put a minus! since the author mixed religion with homosexuals, homosexuals go to sleep and see as soon as the church is destroyed! and the church itself is blameless and pedophile scandals do not shake it! The question arises, what kind of homosexual creeds are they? ! is it here sideways? there is a war in Syria and this is another topic, the bandits came wrote! others will come to erase. Well, they would blow up this temple and write something out of the ordinary on its ruins. Yes, and it feels like Islam is artificially planted in Europe.
  31. Alexanderlaskov
    Alexanderlaskov 15 July 2013 14: 40
    +2
    The article is good. Necessary. A serious topic has been raised.
  32. Enot-poloskun
    Enot-poloskun 15 July 2013 14: 48
    +1
    History repeats itself.

    Remember the collapse of the Roman Empire!

    The Western Roman Empire (analogy - Western Europe) - mired in debauchery and died under the onslaught of barbarians.

    The Eastern Roman Empire - Byzantium - (analogue - Russia) - only flourished and existed for a whole millennium! Could have been more if not for the breakdown during the Crusades.

    So, I believe the predictions of Wanga and others that dark times will come for Christianity, but the light of faith will flare up in Russia.
  33. sashka
    sashka 15 July 2013 14: 54
    -1
    Now. A plane with vigorous bombs, dived into my house .. Is this a teaching ??? I did not like...
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 15 July 2013 22: 10
      +1
      Quote: Sasha
      Now. A plane with vigorous bombs, dived into my house .. Is this a teaching ???



      Vladimir, why do not I see your admiration for the next saying of Alexander?
      1. Normal
        Normal 17 July 2013 09: 58
        0
        Quote: Vadivak
        Vladimir, why do not I see your admiration for the next saying of Alexander?

        Vadim, where did you see my admiration for the sayings of Alexander? Quote, twerk, quote ...
        How much I wrote, but you didn’t understand anything. Just did not want to understand. I end on this thread because I don’t see goodwill on your part.
      2. sashka
        sashka 18 July 2013 10: 20
        0
        But this is True .. I have a flight and runway within the staircase and visual visibility .. It even went wrong .. up to the runway, no more than six hundred meters. But when the "Russian Knights" arrived, then the people generally ceased to understand anything .. Absolutely the same maneuvers. But why to My House
  34. serge
    serge 15 July 2013 16: 24
    +1
    The time has come for the Catholic Church to remain a Christian church or simply become a global commercial event, Christian only externally.
  35. Yuri Y.
    Yuri Y. 15 July 2013 17: 31
    +2
    Quote: kvirit
    arranges gay holidays at the CIA and the Pentagon
    Where does this awareness come from? article put a minus! since the author mixed religion with homosexuals, homosexuals go to sleep and see as soon as the church is destroyed! and the church itself is blameless and pedophile scandals do not shake it! The question arises, what kind of homosexual creeds are they? ! is it here sideways? there is a war in Syria and this is another topic, the bandits came wrote! others will come to erase. Well, they would blow up this temple and write something out of the ordinary on its ruins. Yes, and it feels like Islam is artificially planted in Europe.

    Religion developed as part of a common culture. Culture is (I can say
    in all its senses) arose for the hostel. Therefore, by imposing artificially Islam, perversions in Europe (probably in the world) want to change the norms of hostel (it can completely destroy it).
  36. Forward
    Forward 15 July 2013 18: 14
    +1
    Western civilization and culture have exhausted themselves. They will burn in a cleansing fire to open the way for a new civilization. Well, so be it. And Russia will go its own way. A new wave is already approaching. She is closer than many think.
  37. GUSAR
    GUSAR 15 July 2013 21: 13
    0
    I think a little time will pass and Europe will come to its senses, for the patience of normal people ends ...
  38. orek
    orek 15 July 2013 21: 53
    -1
    Quote: xetai9977
    Any religion implies morality.

    That you got excited. I will not indicate that they would not be attracted for insulting the feelings of believers. But the Talmud, the Torah are the most curious pearls. They need to be delivered in much the same way as Jehovah's Witnesses do, etc.
  39. The comment was deleted.
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 15 July 2013 22: 43
      +2
      Quote: KA3AK
      Look at things with an open mind, does the doctrine of God exist on earth, higher than Orthodox Christianity teaches about it?


      I will add

      “I think that we will never give the people anything better than the Scripture ... Its taste becomes clear when you start reading the Scripture, because you find the whole human life in it. Religion created art and literature; everything that was great in the most ancient times, everything depends on this religious feeling, inherent in man as well as the idea of ​​beauty together with the idea of ​​good ... Poetry of the Bible is especially accessible to pure imagination. My children will read the Bible with me in the original ... The Bible is universal. ”

      Alexander Pushkin.

      “Do not be dead souls, but alive. There is only one door to life, and that door is Jesus Christ. ”
      Nikolay Gogol

      “... Bastards teased me with an uneducated and retrograde faith in God. These boobies did not even dream of such a force of the denial of God, which is laid down in the Inquisitor and in the preceding chapter, to which the whole novel serves as the answer. Not like a fanatic, I believe in God. And these wanted to teach me and laughed at my underdevelopment. Yes, their stupid nature did not even dream of such a force of denial, which I crossed. Should they teach me. ”

      "Christianity is the only refuge of the Russian land from all its evils."

      Fedor Dostoevsky


      “I cannot hear, without disgust, the slightest hint of the lack of a creative plan and creative expediency in the universe, and therefore the existence of the Supreme Mind, and therefore the Supreme Creative Will, I consider it a necessary and inevitable fatal demand of my own mind. So, even if I now wanted not to acknowledge the existence of God, I could not have done this without losing my mind. ”

      Nikolay Pirogov


      “For thirty-five years of my life, I was in the full sense of the word a nihilist, not that I was a specialist revolutionary, but I did not believe in anything. But five years ago, faith came to me. Now I believe in the doctrine of Jesus Christ, and my whole life has suddenly changed completely ... Life and death have ceased to be evil for me, instead of hopelessness and despair, I now feel joy and happiness that even death cannot take from me. "

      Lev Tolstoy

      I do not quote this to the Gentiles, of course they have their own great ones, one of them is known
  40. The comment was deleted.
    1. Ka3ak
      Ka3ak 17 July 2013 23: 56
      +1
      It is interesting to read that modern pagans put a limit on the distribution of the sacred in the life of society ... Emm) Somehow it does not fit with my idea of ​​ancient religions, formed by hours of reading sources and literature))
      Previously, the world was perceived somehow more holistically. Without any divisions we invented. The sacred lived in everything and those who were engaged in the sacred were engaged in general ... everything.
      But ignore, this is all about my personal cognitive dissonance.