Military Review

In the future, denied. The fate of Russia's only SKShT manufacturer for the needs of the Ministry of Defense remains unclear

58
The Bryansk Automobile Plant (BAZ) currently supplies the Russian army with special wheeled chassis and tractors (SKShT) for the installation of weapons and military equipment. The plant’s leadership does not stop its vain attempts to draw the state’s attention to the approaching collapse of the military production unit.




Weekly "MIC" published a chronology of the main events of BAZ. Recall, despite all the organizational problems, BAZ continued to work on the new Voshchina-2 family: the requirements were coordinated, the costs were clarified. In 2007, a contract was signed with the Ministry of Defense to develop a new SKShT family.

However, despite the signed contract, serious problems arose with the financing of the work. The plant received less than a quarter of the amount specified in the contract. And in 2008, the new head of the GABTU, Lieutenant-General Nikolai Ershov, in general, stopped all funding for the Voshchina-2 ROC. Then it was decided not to procure the BAZ-6403 truck tractor developed on an initiative basis and adopted for the supply of the Russian Armed Forces, but instead to purchase the KAMAZ-65225 that did not pass state tests.

Thus, BAZ once again found itself in a difficult position. However, the most surprising at this moment were the new rules for creating BAT, established by the Ministry of Defense. From now on, the main factor determining the fate of this or that development is the attitude towards it by the heads of the power department. If you like - we buy, if you don't like it - we do not buy. They did not pay attention to such trifles as TTX and compliance with the requirements of basic documents.

Most vividly such a policy manifested itself in stories with the chassis for ZRPK "Pantsir-С1". The fact is that the KAMAZ-6560 chassis, selected by the military leadership, was originally created, like all trucks, for normal cargo transport operations. The family of increased payload vehicles to which KAMAZ-6560 belongs is not developed according to the TTZ military. That is, KAMAZ-6560 does not even apply to BAT. Thus, this chassis does not correspond to a number of OTT, TTT, GOST B, GOST RV. Perhaps the key requirement of the military is the ability of the chassis to move along all types of roads and terrain sections. KAMAZ-6560 does not meet this requirement. It is surprising that they do not even hide the fact that this equipment was made as an export product, and not for the needs of the army. In addition, the Pantsir-С1 ZRPK on the KAMAZ-6560 chassis has many other disadvantages. We can note the insufficient overall width and high location of the center of mass, which does not allow firing of guns on the move in the transverse direction relative to the movement of the chassis. If such a shooting is carried out, the ZRPK will simply turn over. The large loading height of the chassis also makes it difficult to fit into the railway and air dimensions (the complex must be disassembled before loading). There is a lack of permeability due to the use of continuous bridges, dependent suspension, insufficient overall width. The tests also revealed a lack of smoothness, which is very important for accurate shooting, and in all directions. Another disadvantage is the low average speed of movement over rough terrain. In addition, the use of imported components and assemblies (KP, RK company ZF).

In 2008, the installation of the BM of this ZRPK was made on the BAZ-6909-019 chassis. Tests have shown that the use of the Bryansk chassis eliminates all of the above drawbacks, and the dynamics, throughput and smoothness of the course also increase significantly. The only reason why the army did not receive the new ZRPK on the BAZ chassis was the interests of KAMAZ, which for the military department turned out to be more important than the combat capabilities of the new technology. However, this KAMAZ preferences are not over. The Ministry of Defense has made it clear: from now on, no research and development on the creation of BAT will be funded, the military will be waiting for initiative development. The only exception, as it is easy to guess, was made for KAMAZ, which is still mastering an enormous budget, fulfilling the ROC Platform-O. At the same time, negotiations began on the purchase of equipment in the NATO countries.

BAZ today

At the end of June, the correspondent of the weekly Military Industrial Courier managed to visit BAZ at the invitation of the company's management in order to assess the state of production with their own eyes and talk to its employees.

Seen is difficult to give a clear assessment. On the one hand, the existing production facilities are fully loaded with work within the framework of the state defense order, and on the other hand, there are consequences of ill-considered decisions of both the top political leadership and the Ministry of Defense. If during the heyday the company worked around 18 000 people, now there are only 1500. Of the eight large workshops in the work of three, the rest are abandoned and gradually destroyed. But as it turned out, this situation is significantly better than the one that was a few years ago.

Active demand from the Armed Forces of the East Kazakhstan region at the SKShT of the Bryansk plant allowed to load the enterprise and partially improve the economic situation. A few years ago, the owner invested funds to upgrade the company, but they are clearly not enough. Currently, the workshops are filled with obsolete machines and other equipment, where BAZ employees continue to produce their unique chassis. The plan for the 2013 year provides for the production and delivery of the 159 SKShT to the customer. In total, supplies are painted up to and including 2015. At first glance, everything is not so bad. But if you look at the situation in more detail, it begins to cause serious concerns.

The fact is that since the signing of contracts for the supply of SKShT for the Ministry of Defense, all components of finished products have significantly increased in price, including tariffs not only for electricity and gas, but also for all purchased components and assemblies (engines, gearbox, etc.) . The situation is also complicated by outdated low-efficiency production equipment. Do not forget that the enterprise itself is within the strict price framework set by the Ministry of Economic Development for all manufacturers of defense products. As a result, each chassis comes with a loss, the total size of which was 95 million rubles in 2011-m and 27 million in 2012-m. Thus, a paradoxical situation arises - the greater the volume of production, the greater the losses. Considering that the plant supplies unique chassis, which have no analogues in Russia, the question naturally arises: why the government, which allocates huge funds for the technical re-equipment of the military-industrial complex, will not help BAZ with the renewal of fixed assets? The answer will be quite simple: there is not a single CJSC BAZ at the disposal of the government, that is, the plant is completely private and is not included in the list of strategically important enterprises of the military-industrial complex. That is why the state is not in a hurry to invest in the renewal of production. At BAZ, it was estimated that the minimum required volume for modernization exceeds two billion rubles.

Here we need to make a small digression and tell about the second component of the production activity of BAZ. We are talking about special crane chassis, which the plant was actively engaged in after joining the Independent Association of Machine Builders. It is important for the reader to know that NAMS, in addition to BAZ, includes Ivanovo's Avtokran OJSC - a manufacturer of automobile cranes, CJSC Gazprom-Kran, which manufactures hydraulic cranes, OJSC Raskat, and a number of other enterprises. They are united by one thing - the use of the chassis, created on the base. In addition, products for the civilian sector are highly profitable. If you take this into account, it becomes obvious that the owner is more interested in producing crane chassis for enterprises belonging to the association than in the unprofitable production of SKShT for the Ministry of Defense and only current contractual obligations allow to continue production for the needs of the army. An indirect proof of this is the fact that the owner has carried out a large-scale technical re-equipment of Ivanovo's “Crane”. That is, there is no doubt that at the BAZ (in the absence of government support), the civil sector will be given priority.

It would be logical to assume that if the Bryansk plant is actively engaged in the renewal of fixed assets for the production of new crane chassis, then the production of SKShTs for the Ministry of Defense can be continued at the same capacities. But, unfortunately, it is not. The fact is that the development of new crane chassis was mainly reoriented to the use of purchased automotive components, including foreign ones, and foreign specialists were also involved in the development.

conclusions

The Bryansk plant continues to manufacture chassis and tractors of the Voshchina-1 family. On the conveyor is the assembly of such samples as BAZ-6402, BAZ-6909, BAZ-6910. At the same time, the state refused to give the Bryansk plant an order to develop promising samples of BAT, despite its many years of experience and numerous developments on this topic. KAMAZ, which had never dealt with this direction, took all the financing. The auto giant from Naberezhnye Chelny was also commissioned to create a new chassis for the Strategic Missile Forces, which, according to the idea, would have to change the products of the MWTP. And this is taking into account the fact that there are foreign companies among the owners of KAMAZ OJSC.

At the same time, the HPV-2020 provides for the development and production of such advanced weapons systems as C-500, Vityaz, and a number of others, which provide for the use of SKSHT of the Bryansk plant, that is, there is a need from the lead contractors. However, no one can guarantee whether the owner of BAZ will continue this production without state support at a loss. And if business interests are respected, then new systems and armaments will simply have nothing to place, and Russia will lose the only SKSHT manufacturer for weapons and military equipment.
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  1. waisson
    waisson 13 July 2013 07: 07 New
    +5
    yes a cry of help. obviously lobbyists are sitting in the deputy corps who lobby for the interests of their enterprise without thinking about something else because masterpieces are born in competition and equipment for the army needs different
    1. Geisenberg
      Geisenberg 13 July 2013 12: 55 New
      -7
      Quote: waisson
      yes a cry of help. obviously lobbyists are sitting in the deputy corps who lobby for the interests of their enterprise without thinking about something else because masterpieces are born in competition and equipment for the army needs different


      Rather, the Cree of helplessness. It seems that in the manual of the BAZ there are sad little babies who don’t know what to do if they are excommunicated from the feeder. They urgently need to decide how to start to support themselves, without regard to the state, and they whine that the state is giving orders to KAMAZ. Purely my me - if the BAZ falls apart then this will be 100% merit of his leadership. There is still time for them to start producing at least something for the civilian market.
      1. self-propelled
        self-propelled 13 July 2013 14: 46 New
        +8
        Quote: Geisenberg
        Rather, the Cree of helplessness. It seems that in the manual of the BAZ there are sad little babies who don’t know what to do if they are excommunicated from the feeder. They urgently need to decide how to start to support themselves, without regard to the state, and they whine that the state is giving orders to KAMAZ. Purely my me - if the BAZ falls apart then this will be 100% merit of his leadership. There is still time for them to start producing at least something for the civilian market

        I think the fact is that the BAZ was originally "sharpened" for the production of defense products. and only after the collapse of the Union at BAZ did they think about the release of civilian products.

        only requirements for military products transferred to civilian and narrow specialization affected the cost of equipment ...
        with regards to Kamaz, it seems that "at the top" are pretty good kickbacks. an example of this is “platform-o”, which should replace the entire chassis of the Minsk MZKT in the Armed Forces. They promised to replace 2014, but even there are still no "living" (i.e. independently moving) prototypes ... request
        1. Very old
          Very old 21 July 2013 18: 17 New
          +1
          I agree with you, Daniel, the “pushers” at KAMAZ are faster, they enter the offices.
      2. Misantrop
        Misantrop 13 July 2013 22: 00 New
        +7
        Quote: Geisenberg
        It seems that in the manual of the BAZ there are sad little babies who don’t know what to do if they are excommunicated from the feeder.

        Oh really? "Dull baby" in the leadership of a PRIVATE enterprise? Despite the fact that supporters of market reform of the economy inflated snot bubbles here, talking about the EXTREMELY EFFICIENCY of a PRIVATE business system? Why does the owner not replace them with more efficient managers? Private trader IS LOSSY trying to work for the defense of the country, but instead of thanks, they spit on him?
        1. anomalocaris
          anomalocaris 14 July 2013 14: 16 New
          +1
          BASE profitability what? What profit will the owner receive from the invested ruble? These are the criteria for the effectiveness of an enterprise in a market economy. In our Palestinians, margins below 50% are not even considered. And the fact that strategic plants are being crushed is not an argument ...
          As one plumber in the Kremlin said: "It’s not the valve that needs to be changed, but the whole system."
          1. Misantrop
            Misantrop 15 July 2013 10: 57 New
            +1
            Quote: anomalocaris
            BASE profitability what? What profit will the owner receive from the invested ruble?
            It is difficult to consider profitability in a balanced system of bribes and kickbacks. Especially considering the combat effectiveness of the resulting weapons and the cost of possible export orders for production and subsequent maintenance ... request
            1. anomalocaris
              anomalocaris 22 July 2013 15: 57 New
              +1
              It is so. Just try to explain it to "effective managers." I periodically come across this fraternity ... I still do not understand how I have not sat down yet for inflicting grievous bodily ...
      3. borisst_64
        borisst_64 14 July 2013 22: 52 New
        0
        BAZ equipment is not commercial, but military equipment. And the plant management should be engaged in the implementation of the requirements of the army (state), and not trade in the market.
        1. Black Colonel
          Black Colonel 25 July 2013 15: 22 New
          0
          ... "do not trade in the market"
          But what if military equipment is unprofitable?
      4. Very old
        Very old 21 July 2013 18: 11 New
        0
        Demetrios, people with specific knowledge and experience, always charged with a defense product, work at the BAZ. In the army SKSHT serve for 15-20 years, they need modernization, replacement with new equipment. Or buy over the hill? Or did they take little experience from the purchase of IVECO, Mistral? BAZ does not bring profit in the form of petrodollars, but something much more ... This is its own product, at the right time it will not make you run over the hill. And pans and pots can spank others
    2. vjhbc
      vjhbc 13 July 2013 18: 52 New
      +4
      give everything to MAZ and do not swear we will make very good cars
      1. Nitup
        Nitup 13 July 2013 20: 56 New
        +5
        we will not give it back. We will make very good cars ourselves.
        1. vBR
          vBR 21 July 2013 16: 42 New
          0
          Who are you? Do you have any relation to technology, its development and production? MZKT and so pushed, although they in the USSR did all the chassis for the air defense system. Everyone needs to regain their niches, and because of idiots, amateurs and stupid managers (as well as focusing on cutting budget money) they pull the entire blanket over themselves. Dry makes SJ and MC-21, but Tupolev, Ilyushin and Yakovlev de facto ceased to exist. It’s the same with Kamaz
      2. mertvoe_exo
        mertvoe_exo 13 July 2013 21: 36 New
        +5
        True said. and it’s very logical that the MZKT are trying to kill ((and how much good he created for Russia, some platforms under poplar are worth (
        1. Denis
          Denis 13 July 2013 22: 14 New
          +1
          Quote: mertvoe_exo
          MZKT trying to kill
          Now this is the business of Belarus, another country
          1. sq
            sq 14 July 2013 00: 56 New
            +7
            Quote: Denis
            Now this is the business of Belarus, another country

            That is, both the Union State and the Customs Union are nothing more than an empty phrase? MZKT and BAZ are professionals in their niches, and KAMAZ in this case is an amateur.
            1. Denis
              Denis 14 July 2013 02: 54 New
              +2
              Quote: kvm
              That is, both the Union State and the Customs Union are nothing more than an empty phrase?
              The USSR also sounded proud and not empty ...
              We will not give out wishful thinking so far
              It’s necessary to maintain BAZ. Whatever the case, the employment of BAZ workers is more important for the government, in any case it should be more important than the employment of workers
              Although who knows what is more important to them there what
              1. anomalocaris
                anomalocaris 14 July 2013 14: 29 New
                +7
                There is such a city - Zlatoust. There WAS a metallurgical plant (although not only metallurgical, there were enough factories there). In 2009, he had fun so bankrupt. I personally observed this process. But the plant is strategic, what could be melted there no longer anywhere, neither in Russia, nor over the hill! So now in Russia there are not about two hundred grades of steel and alloys needed primarily in nuclear energy, space, weapons ...
                No words, only emotions, and obscene.
                1. Denis
                  Denis 14 July 2013 19: 13 New
                  0
                  Quote: anomalocaris
                  Now in Russia there are not about two hundred grades of steel and alloys
                  It’s sad. Steel production needs technology and an unplanned production base. Slippers, fountain pens, etc. can’t be said, but that's why their Chinese do it?
                  Even sadder
                  1. anomalocaris
                    anomalocaris 14 July 2013 19: 18 New
                    0
                    The production base is, of course, important. But the most important thing is people. And there are fewer and fewer people who can do something every year.
              2. vBR
                vBR 21 July 2013 17: 15 New
                0
                This is clear. There is no question at all to put everything on the MZKT. Firstly, there were specializations - the BAZ made the chassis mainly for artillery mounts and motorized rifles, he had to give something rocket, the same carapace, not Kamaz. Well, it’s foolish to explain that it’s foolish to explain the whole blanket. The Russian workers themselves literally handed the private owners their businesses, which is now required from the state (bases and so on all the launchers for the S-400 and S-500 do), the MZKT is state-owned. And most importantly: the chassis of the BAZ is less load-bearing and wide, and it is important for the air defense system to have as many containers as possible on the launcher, because it fired everything and dropped out of the battle for half a day (for reloading). And the tactics of modern air attacks provide for the saturation of enemy air defense - so that the missiles expended as soon as possible, and then the planes would attack. So the MZKT would carry 24 9M96 missiles, and the BAZ carries only 12
            2. vBR
              vBR 21 July 2013 17: 01 New
              0
              Many began to imagine "friends" and "strangers" along the administrative borders (of the former USSR), the rhetoric of the authorities and the media has done its job for 20 years. An adult of some kind of anti-imperial, small-town, big-eyed and stupid nationalism. And they at the same time believe that they make a well-imagined community, for example, Russian workers. “Yes, you take away the ruble from our pensioners” - this is the cry of both a “liberal” and a “patriotic” schiz (this is about gas and other wars), and even now some repeat it
          2. vBR
            vBR 21 July 2013 16: 52 New
            0
            It’s different for you, because there’s a lot of media going around your ears. And for the majority, this forum is the same as the Russian Federation, because everyone understands that these are just former administrative borders. And unlike the Russian Federation, Belarus completely preserved and developed the Soviet industrial potential, and this is important for everyone and especially for the Russian Federation. At least because there is almost no horseradish left from the vocational training system for training workers
      3. Denis
        Denis 13 July 2013 22: 12 New
        0
        Quote: vjhbc
        give everything to MAZ and do not swear we will make very good cars
        They did, so in one awesome moment everything collapsed, now we are restoring
        I do not want two times on the same rake
        1. vBR
          vBR 21 July 2013 17: 22 New
          0
          With such thinking, you should definitely step on the rake :) It would be time to understand why it “collapsed”. As for restoring - I would tell you as an employee of the enterprise of the military-industrial complex. There are grandmothers, but some pensioners work and soon we will not do many key things at all. And on top of the set of effective managers planted thinking how to cut the loot and squeeze more out of senior citizens. Say that this restoration can only be a person who does not know about it. I’m not saying that it’s everywhere, there are some exceptions, but these are exceptions, they alone will not save
          1. anomalocaris
            anomalocaris 22 July 2013 16: 25 New
            0
            Although I do not work in the military-industrial complex, I can say for sure that soon we will have nowhere to work for ANYONE.
      4. Samminosh
        Samminosh 14 July 2013 19: 25 New
        0
        It’s better to give us the MZKT, otherwise, But father’s all reenacted.
        1. vBR
          vBR 21 July 2013 17: 25 New
          0
          And it’s right. What the hell? To stop production and ditch it, how did efficient managers with hundreds of design bureaus and enterprises in the Russian Federation do? So it will be more complete, for confirmation, take and see statistics, not pathos media reports
    3. starshina78
      starshina78 14 July 2013 19: 07 New
      +1
      It smells like money again! And rather big! It seems that KAMAZ was well-hungry who needed it. KAMAZ is a car for the highway, does not like overloads, the engine is short-lived (the experience of operating KAMAZs from 1980, when the first of these cars came to our transport department, the engines take care of 1000 km for a bulkhead; with a box without a divider, it’s mainly dump trucks, barely going uphill). Now they put the Chinese-made Cumings engine, so there’s no such thing as a cab in the cabs. We work for them as a punishment.
  2. 77bob1973
    77bob1973 13 July 2013 08: 14 New
    20
    Kamaz is rather weak for the “shell” - “Voshchina” just right, but I don’t understand what kind of business is at a loss.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 13 July 2013 09: 20 New
      22
      KamAZ is a lot for which it is rather weak.

      First of all, "carts". They need three pieces each in brigades on infantry fighting vehicles and tank with artillery, and significantly more in formations on armored personnel carriers. Otherwise, the very meaning of such brigades will be lost.
      We need a “Zoo” on the Voshchina chassis, a replacement of the Uragan’s chassis, and installation of a promising wheeled self-propelled gun not at KamAZ, but again at the production base of the Bryansk Plant.

      In short, I would not call the products of the plant "niche"; they are needed in large quantities in the troops.
      1. Reddragon
        Reddragon 13 July 2013 10: 11 New
        +8
        If it’s the price, then kickbacks and cuts do not allow such a luxury as a BAZ.
        1. Jeka
          Jeka 13 July 2013 19: 09 New
          +7
          Someone told me (in my friend FSO officer) that the Director of KAMAZ is a friend of Serdyukov, so they are buying them for all the armed forces. Serdyukov left (for how long?!) And KAMAZ buy everything.
      2. anomalocaris
        anomalocaris 14 July 2013 14: 20 New
        +1
        Question: will they buy?
        By the way, I will tell you a little secret - we are ending metallurgy.
  3. lars
    lars 13 July 2013 08: 53 New
    10
    Pests !!! You can’t say otherwise. How many forces and personalities are needed to identify and neutralize half-wits and thieves !!!
    People! What are you doing???!!!
    1. bear
      bear 13 July 2013 15: 57 New
      +7
      lars
      Pests !!! You can’t say otherwise. How many forces and personalities are needed to identify and neutralize half-wits and thieves !!!
      People! What are you doing???!!!

      And these people have all the interests in the West, and children too. Therefore, they do not care about the country in which they were born.
    2. Galan
      Galan 14 July 2013 11: 39 New
      +3
      Now there are no questions:
      What is the meaning of repressions of the late 30s?
      Why did Stalin clean the top layer of the "new revolutionary elite"?
      Could the USSR create an industrial economy in such a short period?

      Times and state systems are changing, and the moral message of many in the desire to climb the ladder of power remains the same - to live beautifully. Such people should be “rotted with sticks” from the authorities, which Stalin did.
  4. Prapor Afonya
    Prapor Afonya 13 July 2013 10: 56 New
    +8
    Quote: lars
    Pests !!! You can’t say otherwise. How many forces and personalities are needed to identify and neutralize half-wits and thieves !!!
    People! What are you doing???!!!

    Or rather, traitors, what are you doing, those who were clouded by the golden calf’s eyes, don’t think about the country, don’t think about the people.
  5. avt
    avt 13 July 2013 11: 03 New
    14
    As I already wrote and won several angry comments and a number of minuses from either those who do not understand, or who are sincerely mistaken. But again, BAZ has become a bargaining chip in the game of “business entities.” The roots lie in KAMAZ’s attempt to crush MAZ, if it’s simple. Each time it fails, they pull BAZ’s heavy platforms onto the surface and parade {their own not so good} , well, it’s kind of like they’ll agree on a carpet — they’ll immediately heat up the BAZ. It’s a pity the plant, I can’t imagine how they are still in such a half-strangled state. This "competitive, market struggle" used to be called sabotage, but we haven’t been 37 years old, and for , economic "crime planting say no.
  6. grafrozow
    grafrozow 13 July 2013 11: 20 New
    +6
    ! KAMAZ-complete for off-road. BAZ iKZKT is a technique! In extreme cases, VOLAT, but it is Belarusian.
  7. Denis
    Denis 13 July 2013 11: 34 New
    +7
    At the same time, negotiations began on the procurement of equipment in NATO countries.

    BAZ today
    There’s no need for enemies either, the rakers themselves will destroy everything
    We, with joy and a smile, will offer something in your pocket (and this is the main thing!), but will there be any sense from those purchases ...
    And certainly these jackals do not care what will happen to the plant. And this is not a job for one person, especially in Bryansk. Not everything is in chocolate, but it’s about insufferable newspapers and the same statements, but really .. .
    If during the heyday the company employed about 18 000 people, now only 1500
    And they want to go hungry or go where to work
    continue to issue SKShT for the Ministry of Defense. But, unfortunately, this is not so. The fact is that the development of new crane chassis was mainly reoriented to the use of purchased automotive components, including foreign ones, as well as foreign specialists were involved in the development.
    The path to destruction, such and under the puppy enthusiasm passed and screeched sawed rockets
    At the same time, GPV-2020 provides for the development and production of such promising weapons systems as S-500 air defense systems, Vityaz air defense systems, and a number of others, which envisage the use of the Bryansk plant SKShT, that is, there is a need for the main performers. However, no one can guaranteewhether the owner of BAZ will continue this production without state support at a loss.
    But is it not fate to support, or is it possible to steal more and easier in Sochi?
  8. Letterksi
    Letterksi 13 July 2013 12: 02 New
    +2
    Interestingly, BAZ is not accidentally on the list for a new round of privatization? If in it, then everything is clear. Choke, bring to bankruptcy, buy on the vine through private traders
    1. 77bor1973
      77bor1973 13 July 2013 13: 01 New
      +1
      The enterprise is not state-owned, it means already privatized. If it’s so bad with BAZ, then they have problems with management — if they cannot sell their products and advertise.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 13 July 2013 13: 32 New
        +6
        Quote: 77bor1973
        If it’s so bad with BAZ, then they have problems with management

        Or someone near power wants to build a base for themselves.
        1. dustycat
          dustycat 14 July 2013 00: 01 New
          +4
          Judging by the name of the consortium participants and the equipment manufactured, this is already the property of Gazprom.
          Here is more likely a system who will roll back more.
  9. Irtysh
    Irtysh 13 July 2013 12: 08 New
    10
    It will simply be a disaster for Russia if enterprises of this kind are destroyed. Imagine how much effort you have to do so as not to destroy the Minsk Wheel Tractor Plant. And this despite the fact that, by and large, it is not customary to stand on ceremony with Belarus.

    Although it may, because of this, the MZKT survives, it is more difficult for him to reach the thieving paws of the oligarchs. Bryansk is a little factory under his nose, so they spread rot :(
  10. Leon779
    Leon779 13 July 2013 13: 10 New
    +1
    Quote: LetterKsi
    Interestingly, BAZ is not accidentally on the list for a new round of privatization? If in it, then everything is clear. Choke, bring to bankruptcy, buy on the vine through private traders

    The answer will be quite simple: the government does not have a single share of BAZ CJSC, that is, the plant is completely private and is not included in the list of strategically important defense industry enterprises. That is why the state is in no hurry to invest in updating production.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 13 July 2013 13: 38 New
      +6
      On the other hand, the Arzamas Engineering Plant is also wholly owned by Deripaska, but the state is investing in it.
    2. AVV
      AVV 13 July 2013 22: 04 New
      +3
      It’s all about lobbyists! If Derepasco has connections in the government, that’s one thing! But BAZ doesn’t, that’s the result! Even if the state had 10% of the shares, the state would have no questions! The state is trying to help First of all, to those companies in which it has its share, this is in principle an axiom !!!
  11. Zomanus
    Zomanus 13 July 2013 14: 28 New
    +7
    They brought it to someone, that’s Kamaz climbed. Although if we are talking about the Shell. as about object air defense (arrived, anchored and standing), then Kamaz may not be bad. But if we consider the Shell as an air defense operating on the march in the ranks of the troops, then of course we need to look at other options for the chassis. In general, Belarus should be tied to itself stronger. Whatever happens as with Ukraine. But then Lukashenko is not eternal, unfortunately ...
    1. dustycat
      dustycat 14 July 2013 00: 07 New
      +5
      Yeah ..
      And now he went outside and looked at the trolleybus wires.
      All major cities that will need this air defense facility have a trolleybus service. In addition, flyovers and interchanges.
      To 80% of the protected objects, the Shell on KAMAZ simply will not drive up.
      OVERSIZE.
  12. flint71
    flint71 13 July 2013 14: 48 New
    +6
    It's time to forget such expressions as "the interests of the country" or "the interests of the army", etc. There is the interest of individuals or groups of people in the army, in business. Apparently, the armament of our army directly depends on the size of the kickbacks. If the owner of BAZ has the main profit from the production of cranes, why should he “charge” funds into military products and “butt” KAMAZ. The state is "sniffing", will invest money, well. No, we will sell cranes. Here is such a management.
  13. egsp
    egsp 13 July 2013 15: 59 New
    +6
    Magnificent BAZ chassis. If the plant was preserved in the 90s, what is stopping now? .. It is a pity that the phrase “enemy of the people” was canceled.
  14. T-73
    T-73 13 July 2013 16: 13 New
    +4
    Our stupidity knows no boundaries. The defense enterprise is unclear to whom it belongs. There are really no alternatives to the manufactured chassis. What's next? They launched rocket trains under the press, maybe mobile RCs are not needed? The farther, the more we look like samurai. In the sense of hara-kiri.
    1. Kir
      Kir 13 July 2013 20: 30 New
      +2
      But is it just stupidity? Since I’m sorry, it’s not your question in your power, so forgive what does our stupidity have to do with it? And with regards to the hara-kiri, it certainly wouldn’t hurt some, and put a comrade behind him on every back so that if anything helps (as in principle the samurai did).
      1. T-73
        T-73 14 July 2013 12: 45 New
        0
        Not in our power many questions. Which does not negate the good old rule for us: we create our own difficulties to overcome them heroically later.
        1. anomalocaris
          anomalocaris 14 July 2013 16: 09 New
          +1
          Sorry, but who are you in the government? I personally do not create difficulties for myself, but I have to constantly rake the shit for various effective managers.
          So specify your position and, please, without cheap slogans ...
  15. tol100v
    tol100v 13 July 2013 20: 45 New
    0
    Revive convoy plants and rivet carts
  16. Sea snake
    Sea snake 13 July 2013 21: 04 New
    +6
    BAZ has both accumulated experience in the construction of multi-axle, passable chassis, and a specific "military" assortment.
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 13 July 2013 22: 05 New
      +7
      Quote: Sea Snake
      multi-axle, passable chassis, and a specific "military" range.

      Here, apparently, some are waiting for him to be brought back on such a chassis (loaded to the limit) ...
  17. Russ69
    Russ69 13 July 2013 22: 31 New
    +1
    In general, the article is old and according to it or a similar one, in the winter it seemed like Shoigu made statements that BAZ products are in demand by the army and will be purchased.
  18. not good
    not good 13 July 2013 23: 07 New
    +2
    Rogozin AU ... but what about the competitive basis and objectivity .... ????
  19. MASTER
    MASTER (MPS) 14 July 2013 00: 54 New
    +1
    This is not surprising. The MZKT will be sold to Russia.
    1. Kir
      Kir 14 July 2013 03: 00 New
      +6
      God forbid, it’s better at the Old Man than in the hands of all there in Russia.
  20. Sea snake
    Sea snake 14 July 2013 09: 50 New
    +6
    In general, I believe that the KamAZ chassis should be "carefully appointed" for use in "strategic" military purposes with great care. Yes, high-speed (on a good road), yes, it’s easy to drive and comfortable ..... but even KamAZ is a “shovel” on very rough terrain, on RUSSIAN mud, on marshy, on crossing rivers ... it’s not going to what a comparison with the same "ordinary" Urals. If KamAZ "sits down", then everything, just pull or dig out ... if it tries to get out by itself, then goodbye to the clutch.
    They wrote that he was flimsy ... I will add that he is gentle. In addition, it is difficult to repair in the field.
    And if it’s being heated that it “lies” on its side with a volley transverse from the movement, then it finally can’t get into any gates! Russian military equipment has always been famous for its super-cross-country ability, reliability and simplicity, the possibility of repair "on the knee" ... KamAZ has not yet fit into any of these criteria.
    1. Kir
      Kir 14 July 2013 09: 59 New
      0
      This is all so there’s just one more company that worked on this topic, at least that was until 2006, but it isn’t on the list, is it interesting to have a branch or something else? By the way, they paid a decent salary to employees.
  21. Spike
    Spike 14 July 2013 13: 10 New
    0
    It's strange how they forgot about the VAZ. Imagine the air defense system based on Kalina laughing
  22. go
    go 14 July 2013 15: 40 New
    +3
    Was recently in Bryansk - the picture is sad. Once the pride of industry - BMZ (by the way it was still built under the tsar) and BAZ, Steel Works, huge workshops are overgrown with trees. By modern standards, building it all costs billions, but to destroy is not a problem. Despite the fact that due to factory traditions, every resident of Bryansk is still a good locksmith. What we do not value. Western Europe and China will soon produce for us, and we will work for them without pants.

    The government should support the plant with orders - whether it matters in private hands or not - these are jobs for thousands of people and taxes. So do all normal countries!

    Parasites for the lobby of Kamaz (which is already all right) and just idiots who don’t understand that someone should control the last!
  23. yanus
    yanus 14 July 2013 17: 49 New
    -1
    A small digression into the "normal market economy." In a case similar to BAZ and KAMAZ, merger and acquisition deals are remarkably successful.
    BAZ could not get around KAMAZ and was left completely without orders? Let KAMAZ be sold, they don’t care at which plant they will make money. Yes, the price will not be super, but the old owner can get "live" money, a share in the company, etc., etc. The plant will work, KAMAZ will replenish its ranks with new specialists, developments, technologies. Given the KAMAZ dealer network, they will be able to establish sales of BAZ heavy civilian equipment without any problems.
    But, I’m afraid that the current owner of the toad will strangle to part with BAZ’s 100 percent control.
  24. Starover_Z
    Starover_Z 14 July 2013 22: 56 New
    0
    And the "Shell-1C" really looks a bit tall. Here in the article it is well explained.
    About the BAZ.
    Natural "undercover games"! Not so long ago there was a media talk about the rejection of the Minsk chassis for MO equipment in favor of the Bryansk and here it is. Inscrutable paths ...
    It’s a pity if everything doesn’t work out and they don’t start releasing the equipment that is really tested and reliable!
  25. mithridate
    mithridate 16 July 2013 01: 30 New
    0
    sorry if they ruin such an enterprise
  26. flint71
    flint71 18 July 2013 16: 23 New
    0
    The article “Uncle Chernomor is with us” in the latest issue of Autoreview (http://trucks.autoreview.ru/anons/) puts everything in its place. It seems that "kickbacks" have nothing to do with it. It’s just that the government decided that everything “wheeled”, including floating ones, will be done by KAMAZ for our army. This decision was verbally brought to all the rest, so as not to flutter. But in order to make it look like competition, competitions are held. It is surprising that 45% of the shares in this enterprise may possibly belong to Mercedes.