Military Review

Tank, which has not yet seen. A brief analysis of the "raids" on "Armatu"

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Tank, which has not yet seen. A brief analysis of the "raids" on "Armatu"

The new main battle tank (MBT) on the Armata platform will not be shown to the general public in September, as planned earlier. Show cars will be closed. This was reported to journalists by Dmitry Rogozin.


The news that only the country's leadership will see the new car at the exhibition in Nizhny Tagil caused a whole wave of criticism ... No, not criticism of excessive closeness accompanying all developments in the military field. Hurricane ravages exposed himself new tank. Rather, the little that is known about him. That is, the situation looks almost anecdotal - those who want to moan a new domestic development are trying to be in time as soon as possible until you can look at the living product. It was about the same with the fifth-generation Russian fighter. There were many willing to speculate that "he will not fly," that "we can not do this," that "all this is cheating" and in general "drank and kickbacks." But since the PAK FA and its flight tests it became possible to observe firsthand, the critics have disappeared somewhere. They instantly forgot what the public had recently urged together, and found their languages ​​more appropriately applied.

Nevertheless, criticism of the not yet shown “Armata” deserves attention. Firstly, because on some technical issues, the public is presented with the “only true” point of view. And for those who are interested in the new Russian a tank, it is useful to know that the point of view set forth by the opponents of “Almaty” is not the only one. And since the developers of "Almaty" are not yet able to openly present a new car - this does not mean that you can use it, "scattering" your criticism without an answer.

Secondly, it is worth examining it so that it will be harder for the accusers to forget their words and continue to pretend that they are always right.

So, let's try to figure out what will be the Armata in the MBT version. And what are its qualities challenged opponents.

The appearance of the new tank is known in general terms. Its main weapon will be the 2А82 high-power tank gun. It has the same caliber 125-mm, but new ammunition, with shells of increased length and more powerful propelling charges. In terms of its energy characteristics, it has a significant superiority even over the most advanced German Rh 120 / L55 at the moment.

However, the choice of this weapon is one of the subjects of criticism. Indeed, a significant increase in the firepower of the new tank could be the installation of a more powerful 152-mm smoothbore 2A83 gun. She also passed the test and has a set of modern ammunition, similar to 2А82, only made in a larger caliber. This gun was supposed to be installed on the prototype of the tank, which was not yet adopted by the armed forces - the “195 object” (image), which was popularly called T-95.

However, increasing firepower in the simplest way (by increasing the caliber of the gun) has its negative sides. Abroad, too, they began experimenting with large-caliber tank guns, when it turned out that the standard NATO 120-mm Rh-120 cannon does not ensure the defeat of the Soviet T-80. Mostly tried to increase the caliber to 140-mm. However, the caliber of the guns of Western tanks remained the same. Why?

There is an erroneous opinion that the cause of this was the collapse of the USSR, which, they say, eliminated the danger of a collision in a battle with the newest Soviet tanks. In fact, Western experiments simply did not succeed. The increased energy of firing large-caliber guns did not allow to achieve the required accuracy of firing. In addition, massive weapons and ammunition, which increased its volume, prohibitively increased the weight and size of the already heavy and large Western machines (with a large silhouette, therefore, representing a good target). And the only successful Western experience of increasing the power of tank guns was the German gun Rh 120 / L55, which, like the domestic 2А82, retained its former caliber.

A further increase in the firepower of tanks will not necessarily be associated with large calibers. One of the most promising areas is the development of the so-called electrothermochemical guns (you can read more here and here). Such studies are carried out with us. However, at the moment, the main tank armament should be improved not by geometric dimensions, but by the quality of the control systems and ammunition.

Thus, the Armata will receive for its gun a whole line of new ammunition, including with the adjustment of the trajectory, with a remote undermining, as well as a new complex of guided missile weapons. This will increase the possibility of "Almaty" in the fight against both enemy armored vehicles and other targets. Including those scattered over a certain area and airborne (with aircraft). It will be possible to judge the characteristics of the weapons control system (FCS) of “Almaty” when this information becomes more open. But judging by the interview of a recognized expert in the field of armored vehicles, Viktor Ivanovich Murakhovsky, it will meet all modern requirements:

“The basic principles of a modern tank control system are clear: multichannel, composite image based on channel synthesis, a fully digital ballistic path, integration with automated control systems with external targeting (i.e., enhanced capabilities of the hunter-gunner mode), augmented reality, and issuing ammunition in the field management of LMS from external sources, and so on ... From a design point of view, there seems to be no problem. The parameters listed by me were born in our design bureau. I think the ASC (automatic target tracking) is a necessary element. It allows you to eliminate human errors from the moment of capture of the target. It is expensive, because in battle, under enemy fire, the reaction time and accuracy of the gunner’s actions are reduced several times compared to the field conditions. ”

Further. Much is also known about the layout of the tank. The engine compartment (MTO) will be traditionally located - in the stern of the hull. This, of course, will upset many armored vehicle lovers who were hoping for the front-line location of the weapons and military equipment, by analogy with the Israeli Merkava. Here it is necessary to note that, apart from the Merkav (created for very specific theater engines) and several experimental machines, the front arrangement of MTO is not used anywhere. Yes, the engine protects the crew from direct shelling into the front of the hull. But overweight front of the machine has a bad effect on its patency. Actually, therefore, all domestic and Western tanks, designed for maneuvering actions on all types of soil, have a rear arrangement of logistic support. A sufficient protection of the front of the case can be achieved not only with the engine.

And here "Armata" is something to boast. The crew will be placed in an armored capsule located in front of the hull and isolated from the crew compartment. A tower with the main armament - will be uninhabited. Under it will be located ammunition and automatic loader mechanisms. This is almost an inevitable decision, because modern anti-tank weapons tend to hit the tank in the least protected upper hemisphere. Increase armor over the tank is almost impossible. And the only rational way out would be an attempt to “hide” the crew under the protection of the uninhabited weapon module. The tank turret also accounts for most direct hits from anti-tank weapons. And, if the goal is to increase the survival of the crew on the battlefield, one cannot get away from an uninhabited fighting compartment.

The isolated crew accommodation has its drawbacks. But, in my opinion, they are not quite where the critics are trying to find them. The effectiveness of the tank, among other things, will depend on how well the crew can maintain a “sense of presence” on the battlefield, make observation of the battlefield as high as possible, and target detection is fast. Here, of course, much depends on the observation devices and on how fully they allow to display the environment. It seems that with the current level of technology, it is quite possible to make the crew’s information field fairly saturated.

If the crew’s awareness of the environment is sufficiently high, and the controls are not “mechanically-manual”, but still modern, the problem of “crowded” placement of the crew in an armored capsule becomes more far-fetched than real. Thus, the respected Alexey Khlopotov (Gur Khan) cites the opinion of an unnamed German expert who considered the space of the armored capsule sufficient only for drei kirgisische Zwergrabauken (three small Kyrgyz). I just want to ask an unknown German expert: let me, when will the crews of German tanks stop loading the gun manually? It is clear that for a hefty German loader you need a lot of space so that he can carry shells from ammunition with his hands. But "our Kyrgyz" do not have to do this at all. Try to imagine, dear German expert, at least theoretically, that this operation can be carried out by pressing a button. I understand that it is difficult to imagine. But you know, we have been using automated tank gun loading for several decades now. And the “manual loader” is simply not in the crew. Technical progress does not stand still, however.

Another highly respected and well-known tank expert Andrei Tarasenko, in his blog, reflects on the fact that "... more and more thinking people interested in tank building express serious concerns about the appearance of the promising Russian tank" Armat "...

Anxiety about the appearance of “Almaty” from the Ukrainian specialist in armored vehicles is quite understandable - Russian and Ukrainian tank building have long been competing in foreign markets. Claims to "Armata" with Andrei Tarasenko relate to the layout. The accusation was caused by the same armored capsule, which, in the opinion of the respected expert, has “unsatisfactory crew protection indicators, poor living conditions of the crew in cramped conditions, the lack of a static view from the commander’s position, even within the front hemisphere, the commander’s and gunner’s visual channel” .

To prove the poor security of the crew in the armored vehicle "Almaty", Tarasenko cites two other layout options, which he says are hypothetical (picture). Without going into the shortcomings of "hypothetical" alternatives, we will look at the scheme for booking these three layouts, depicted by Valery Mukhin. It clearly shows that the security of the crew when firing a direct shot weapon from a heading angle to 30 degrees in the layout of “Armata” is the best.

What can be agreed with is the impossibility of visual aiming. It can be said that in some situations the commander has to observe the situation directly, leaning out into the open hatch. On the "Armata" is impossible. However, this tank should become a qualitatively new combat vehicle, and not a simple improvement of the old layouts and schemes.

But in order to understand how much it will correspond to modern hostilities, we will have to separately consider the conditions in which Armata is to act. It will also allow once again to discuss the question of how relevant a type of weapon will be a battle tank in the near future in general.

About this - in the coming days.
Author:
Originator:
http://www.odnako.org/blogs/show_26728/
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  1. Lech from ZATULINKI
    Lech from ZATULINKI 12 July 2013 07: 38 New
    0
    Will this tank be a complete version and will there be great upgrade opportunities in the future?
    1. Hammer
      Hammer 12 July 2013 07: 52 New
      +9
      Как показывает практика, все принимаемое на вооружение всегда потом модернизируется. Потому как, каких бы семи пядей во лбу не был конструктор, но детских болезней избежать не возможно. Их выявляет только войсковая эксплуатация. Поэтому будут в названии танка и буквы "У" или "М"...
      But it normal. All over the world such a practice. Do not be afraid of this ...
      As for the modernization backlog, our Soviet / Russian design school has always been distinguished, among other things, by the backlogs of modernization and improvement that are always laid in the armament being created.
      Я очень надеюсь на то, что "Армата" станет тем образцом, за который можно будет гордиться... да же еще не модернизировав его. wink smile
      1. MilaPhone
        MilaPhone 12 July 2013 08: 09 New
        0
        Quote: Lech s ZATULINKI
        Will this tank be a complete version and will there be great upgrade opportunities in the future?

        учитывая то, что "Армата" это универсальная платформа модернизация и множество вариантов является его главной "изюминкой".
        В остальном концепция "изолированого экипажа" или "необитаемой башни" не нова.
        For example, even Poles flaunt it:
    2. Rustam
      Rustam 12 July 2013 08: 22 New
      10
      A tank that has not yet been seen.
      ________

      We will not see him this year for sure - I’m talking for everyone

      private show will take place with a limited number of participants from enterprises to a minimum of people, a designer and a crew

      there will be Armata, Boomerang, Kurganets (if they have time) and much more

      I’ll say one thing, Armata and Boomer, these will be revolutionary products + it’s said very strongly from my lips winked I know what I'm talking about

      just have to wait, and most importantly there is 100% financing
      1. Armata
        Armata 12 July 2013 08: 57 New
        13
        Quote: Rustam
        We will not see him this year for sure - I’m talking for everyone

        private show will take place with a limited number of participants from enterprises to a minimum of people, a designer and a crew

        there will be Armata, Boomerang, Kurganets (if they have time) and much more

        I will say one thing Armata and Boomer-these will be revolutionary products + it is said very strongly from my lips I know what I'm talking about

        just have to wait, and most importantly there is 100% financing
        And which tank will be shown if there is no tower yet? Dreams Dreams. Because he is closed and there is nothing to show. Believe me, yesterday from 6 to 22 I was sitting at the factory so that they could rivet not a test one, but an exhibition one. There will be no Almaty there, I don’t know about the Kurgan, maybe the guys will have time.
        1. evgenii67
          evgenii67 12 July 2013 10: 07 New
          +3
          Hello everyone! Greetings, Eugene
          Quote: Mechanic
          And which tank will be shown if there is no tower yet? Dreams Dreams. Because he is closed and there is nothing to show. Believe me, yesterday from 6 to 22 I was sitting at the factory so that they could rivet not a test one, but an exhibition one. There will be no Almaty there, I don’t know about the Kurgan, maybe the guys will have time.
          Евгений, что ж так тянем, неужели денег нет? Может скинемся всей страной по "рублю", России нужен новый танк. Кстати, что по самой статье, походу очередной бред:"Далее. О компоновке танка также известно многое. Моторно-трансмиссионное отделение (МТО) будет расположено традиционно — в корме корпуса. Это, конечно, расстроит многих любителей бронетехники, надеявшихся на переднее расположение МТО, по аналогии с израильской «Меркавой»." You seem to be writing that there will be a front MTO
          1. Armata
            Armata 12 July 2013 10: 18 New
            +7
            Quote: evgenii67
            оторно-трансмиссионное отделение (МТО) будет расположено традиционно — в корме корпуса. Это, конечно, расстроит многих любителей бронетехники, надеявшихся на переднее расположение МТО, по аналогии с израильской «Меркавой»." Вы вроде бы писали, что будет переднее МТО
            For self-propelled guns and infantry fighting vehicles there will be a front, for obt we can say that it’s classic, but so far they also tend to the front (Just putting the amount of weapons that is planned on the combat module, increasing the length of the barrel and dragging it closer to the nose is still problematic). I do not know yet what will happen for OBT. Do not forget that this is the development of the KB transmash (they were always famous for their self-propelled guns), the combat modules are designed by Omichi. And it relates to UVZ only because this design bureau has deprived of its production and given all the sites for UVZ.
            1. leon-iv
              leon-iv 12 July 2013 11: 16 New
              +5
              Hi Zhen and who is still cutting the towers?
              as far as I know there is the most plug with the LMS in the given mass dimensions.
              1. Armata
                Armata 12 July 2013 11: 25 New
                +9
                Quote: leon-iv
                Hi Zhen and who is still cutting the towers?
                Hey. I don’t know, they don’t share with me laughing
                Quote: leon-iv
                as far as I know there is the most plug with the LMS in the given mass dimensions.
                Well, there is one, only this is not the biggest gag. There are practically no problems with self-propelled guns. But with MBT, the main one is in placing the loading mechanism and ammunition. After all, they said that there would be everything and a lot, but they did not say where they would put it. In short, it’s like in a joke about a goldfish and a desire about 100 uev. Wow, I posted everything for you, but I don’t know where to attach the basket with eggs.
                1. leon-iv
                  leon-iv 12 July 2013 11: 34 New
                  +2
                  Clearly, it’s impossible to eat a fish and to sit on an Organ. Cho will cut the BC?
                  By the way, how do you get a self-propelled gun?
                  Threat A condo will be? or only heat is only a hadkor?
                  1. Armata
                    Armata 12 July 2013 11: 42 New
                    +3
                    Quote: leon-iv
                    By the way, how do you get a self-propelled gun?
                    Like any other transmash product. Remember Msta-S. And the conder there is simply necessary and not only for people, there is a healthy electronics unit (megamind), which requires a certain ambient temperature.
                    1. leon-iv
                      leon-iv 12 July 2013 12: 23 New
                      +2
                      May someone died now the tankers will be like people))))
                      Did the transmash solve the problem of overheating the barrel at a high rate of fire?
                      1. Scoun
                        Scoun 12 July 2013 19: 04 New
                        0
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        May someone died now the tankers will be like people))))

                        We have tankers with such a situation will be like pilots .. gig and without a banter ... a bunch of electronics joysticks and stuff ..
            2. aksakal
              aksakal 13 July 2013 01: 51 New
              0
              Quote: Mechanic
              but so far they are also leaning towards the front (Just putting the amount of weapons that is planned on the combat module, increasing the length of the barrel and dragging it closer to the nose is still problematic)
              - y, how is everything running laughing So it turns out that for MBT at the concept level they are stuck. I understand that it’s a difficult technical problem, but somehow ... Almost a century of experience in creating tanks, one of which was recognized as the best by all world experts, is to stick to such a problem? Is it really that bad? belay And almost a century of experience does not help? Distracted, distracted. Today you upset me. crying and Sayenko didn’t stay too long? Actually, this is a blatant failure for which in the Stalin years ... Well, we are not 37 years old, but at least we should punish and appoint someone who can cope with exile - he will find really talented and extraordinary-minded designers and will decide what
              Quote: Mechanic
              still problematic
          2. Sobol
            Sobol 12 July 2013 20: 12 New
            0
            And I would have thrown myself off. I don’t feel sorry for the rebar or the new strategist - for the good deed of a couple of thousand. All that is needed is just a guarantee that no Vasiliev and other hat will invest this money in their summer house / apartment.
            1. Dilshat
              Dilshat 12 July 2013 21: 41 New
              +2
              Dear SoboL, there’s much more to take off? And they shake Buratino upside down and demand more! If everyone without exception paid in full and still didn’t steal, they would have made a tank with all the bells and whistles, with a rail automatic gun, with a vertical take-off function, with AI.)))
              1. Sobol
                Sobol 13 July 2013 14: 09 New
                0
                Well here again. I tell you about the soul, and you tell me about your pocket. recourse
            2. PSih2097
              PSih2097 13 July 2013 09: 05 New
              0
              Quote: SoboL
              All that is needed is just a guarantee that no Vasiliev and other hat will invest this money in their summer house / apartment.


              После этого все дружно уточнили условия её домашнего ареста и выяснили, что экс-чиновница Минобороны Евгения Васильева, помещенная под домашний арест в рамках дела о хищениях в "Оборонсервисе", имеет право на трехчасовые прогулки на свежем воздухе, и это время она может использовать для перемещения по городу по своему усмотрению.

              That is, the court and the Investigative Committee do not mind shopping at the Chanel boutique.
        2. Dmitry 2246
          Dmitry 2246 12 July 2013 10: 25 New
          +1
          It would be great if the capsule saves from the detonation of ammunition.
          And it’s important to raise the angle of the gun - at least slightly increase.
          Willingness to fire in ambush, defense without starting the engine for a long time.
          1. Armata
            Armata 12 July 2013 10: 37 New
            +8
            Quote: Dmitry 2246
            Willingness to fire in ambush, defense without starting the engine for a long time.
            Guys there were having sex with the placement of an independent generator station.
          2. cdrt
            cdrt 12 July 2013 11: 27 New
            +2
            For ambushes - maybe the angle of declination rather than elevation?
        3. svp67
          svp67 12 July 2013 11: 07 New
          +8
          Quote: Mechanic
          And which tank will be shown if there is no tower yet? Dreams Dreams. Because he is closed and there is nothing to show. Believe me, yesterday from 6 to 22 I was sitting at the factory so that they could rivet not a test one, but an exhibition one. There will be no Almaty there, I don’t know about the Kurgan, maybe the guys will have time.

          Duck, you help them, from plywood - the general outline of the tower, but a couple of parcel boxes, as models of sights ... and a model of a new tank, ready to be shown to senior management, it will do for them, I don’t think there is at least one special ... Although of course this is disgusting, so rub the glasses to the people of Russia ...
        4. Flooding
          Flooding 12 July 2013 13: 06 New
          0
          Quote: Mechanic
          And which tank will be shown if there is no tower yet?

          Mechanic, what about the chassis? What engine?
    3. Vovka levka
      Vovka levka 12 July 2013 10: 57 New
      +1
      Quote: Lech from ZATULINKI
      Will this tank be a complete version and will there be great upgrade opportunities in the future?

      There are no boundaries for perfection.
      There is nothing to discuss here.
    4. Semen Semyonitch
      Semen Semyonitch 12 July 2013 19: 35 New
      0
      Quote: Lech from ZATULINKI
      Will this tank be a complete version and will there be great upgrade opportunities in the future?

      ... Perhaps, for some things, you can make temporary compromises, for example, for the same ammunition, for their most advanced and expensive types. Or by the active protection system, which can be added later due to the modularity of the design. In general, a unified platform facilitates the permanent modernization of the machine during production and operation. But in other areas, such compromises are simply impossible, for example, on the same basic ballistic defense. This forms the basis of the design, layout of the machine. The same can be said about automation tools, the so-called “digital board”, where the most advanced developments in the field of architecture and system interfaces should be laid.

      source: http://vpk.name/
    5. Airman
      Airman 12 July 2013 20: 27 New
      +1
      Quote: Lech from ZATULINKI
      Will this tank be a complete version and will there be great upgrade opportunities in the future?

      Does horseradish share the skin of a dead bear? We don’t see anything, but we are already criticizing or approving. Let them show. Wait and see, or not.
  2. Diviz
    Diviz 12 July 2013 07: 41 New
    -7
    I expect that the protection of the tank will be nanotechnological and the weapon of the tank will be at least in the aggregate of the terminator + t90s.
    1. tun1313
      tun1313 12 July 2013 09: 18 New
      0
      It will, as usual, have no world analogs.
    2. cdrt
      cdrt 12 July 2013 11: 29 New
      0
      No, even cooler - there will be blasters and a reactor instead of a diesel engine wink
    3. Flooding
      Flooding 12 July 2013 15: 04 New
      0
      Quote: DiViZ
      I expect that the protection of the tank will be nanotechnological and the weapon of the tank will be at least in the aggregate of the terminator + t90s

      you forgot, dear, add a hurricane and it is advisable to swim
  3. roma-belij
    roma-belij 12 July 2013 07: 42 New
    +1
    Главное чтобы всё не "заглохло" как с "Чёрным Орлом" или Т-95.
    1. cdrt
      cdrt 12 July 2013 11: 31 New
      0
      For example, they would have made for a start a new wagon with a tower from the T-90MS, if it were possible to show more than the layout could. And it would be possible to offer for export already. In the meantime, everyone would digest it - they would finish the native module
  4. taseka
    taseka 12 July 2013 07: 43 New
    -1
    TOTALLY, I am glad! The question about platform modifications, how many are there, are they developed? What are the expected delivery times and how much?
  5. Chuck-norris
    Chuck-norris 12 July 2013 07: 47 New
    0
    I posted this article here after a minute of writing it. However, why is it not in my publications?
    1. strange and pretty meaningless
      strange and pretty meaningless 12 July 2013 11: 31 New
      +2
      wassat Topswara catches a kick from Chuck Norris
  6. Ivan79
    Ivan79 12 July 2013 08: 13 New
    +4
    Why guess on the coffee grounds ... They’ll do it, they will show it, then we’ll start to take it apart by bones ... smile
    1. Ezhaak
      Ezhaak 12 July 2013 10: 00 New
      +3
      The point of discussing the machine without having traveled on it? In the dry dryer, called. Eat a sandwich and praise not drunk coffee. laughing Here let the tankmen praise!
      1. s1н7т
        s1н7т 12 July 2013 10: 37 New
        0
        Quote: Hedgehog
        Here let the tankmen praise!

        Better let them tell the truth.
  7. mark1
    mark1 12 July 2013 08: 22 New
    +2
    Обсуждать достоинства и недостатки того чего в глаза не видел - это , конечно не от большого ума, но свою положительную роль многочисленная критика и высказывания все таки сыграли.Паузу, конечно надо уметь держать, но главное не передерживать, а то вместо интриги можно получить дескридитацию. Пошла более менее внятная информация по "Армате", так глядишь и картинку покажут настоящую, а может и показ живьем "не сильно закрытым" будет...
  8. sasha.28blaga
    sasha.28blaga 12 July 2013 08: 25 New
    0
    We have to wait for two local specialists one Mikhanik, I don’t remember the second. The last time they organized such debates on Armata, you will read it.
    1. Yegorchik
      Yegorchik 13 July 2013 18: 14 New
      0
      Let me guess, Kars?
  9. vitek1233
    vitek1233 12 July 2013 08: 31 New
    0
    The armor is strong and our tanks are fast !!!
  10. shinobi
    shinobi 12 July 2013 08: 46 New
    +3
    Reliably nothing is known about the new tank. All criticist-observers are sending them together ..! When they show and tell us, then we’ll think about the performance characteristics. We’ll live and see in short. soldier
  11. Alexanderlaskov
    Alexanderlaskov 12 July 2013 08: 54 New
    +2
    Many thanks to the author.
  12. Pacifist
    Pacifist 12 July 2013 08: 55 New
    +1
    Thanks to the author, but there is a gripe about posting the article, the fact is that there are links to the schemes, but the schemes themselves are not published ... apparently, something went off when posting the article, although this is more likely to the editors.
    And so +, I'm waiting for the continuation good
  13. Metlik
    Metlik 12 July 2013 08: 56 New
    0
    What will be the angle of elevation of the gun? Will it be possible to shoot in the city on the upper floors, and shoot a canopy in howitzer mode? In my opinion, the possibilities of fighting in the city and fighting in sau mode are very important today. I would like that in Armata use the experience of creating tools for Nona.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 12 July 2013 09: 16 New
      +5
      Такие углы возвышения можно обеспечить только очень сильно сократив БК, оставив боеприпасы исключительно в конвейере в кормовой части башни. Как в "Леклерке"- примерно 22 снаряда.
      To give large angles, it is necessary that the turret space is empty for free movement of the breech of the gun there.

      Is it necessary at such a price?
      1. Metlik
        Metlik 12 July 2013 10: 03 New
        -1
        Quote: Spade
        Is it necessary at such a price?

        Thanks for the answer, but I remain in my opinion. Moreover, Leclerc is one of the best tanks for today.
        1. flanker7
          flanker7 12 July 2013 22: 20 New
          0
          Yes, well, probably the newspapers have read ...
      2. Sleptsoff
        Sleptsoff 12 July 2013 11: 22 New
        0
        You can make air suspension - lower the ass and the gun lifts a little up))
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 12 July 2013 12: 04 New
          0
          It’s still not possible to shoot at the upper floors.
        2. JonnyT
          JonnyT 12 July 2013 12: 42 New
          0
          for the flight of thought a huge scope)))
          You can do anything, but is it necessary? And will this give advantages to enemies, that’s the question ....
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 12 July 2013 13: 01 New
            0
            If active, it will. It will be possible to shoot at higher speeds than now.
    2. s1н7т
      s1н7т 12 July 2013 10: 43 New
      +3
      Quote: Metlik
      shoot a canopy in howitzer mode?

      Cool term! laughing
      So, in my opinion, all of our tanks had the opportunity to fire from the PDO.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 12 July 2013 12: 03 New
        0
        Quote: c1n7
        all our tanks had the ability to fire from the PDO.

        There is an opportunity, it makes no sense. Now the motorized rifle brigade has a total of 2 howitzer, 1 jet divisions plus 3 mortar batteries. This is not counting what the senior boss will provide.
        Пока в войска дойдут новые танки, ГСАДНы значительно повысят свою скорострельность, а миномёты в батареях заменят на потомков "Нюрки", которая не только минами стреляет, но и 122-мм снарядами.

        I do not think that there will be a special need for shooting tanks with PDO.
  14. Kostya77
    Kostya77 12 July 2013 08: 56 New
    0
    I am interested in this project, as well as BTT in general. But it seems that, as far as I understand, they should demonstrate a platform that will become the basis not only for the tank, but also for heavy infantry fighting vehicles, etc. What about the new tank? everything new is perceived by the majority conservatively ... Wait and see. May God grant it to follow the example of PAK FA.
  15. Alex96
    Alex96 12 July 2013 09: 00 New
    0
    It is a pity that this year he will not be released to the training ground.
  16. IsailoR
    IsailoR 12 July 2013 09: 20 New
    +1
    "Одним из самых перспективных направлений является разработка так называемых электротермохимических пушек (подробнее можно почитать здесь и здесь)."
    Прошу прощения, "где" и "где"? Интересно было бы почитать.

    As for the criticism of some personalities of the product, for which nothing is yet practically known, except for the main layout, it is at least strange to do this without knowing the details. Here they will lay out all the details - one could specifically reason. And so - the dog barks - the caravan goes on.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 12 July 2013 09: 51 New
      +1
      Missing links:
      http://sa100.ru/armor/120-mm%20Gun%20in%20Korea/120-mm%20Gun%20in%20Korea.html
      http://btvt.narod.ru/1/tank_gun.htm
      http://andrei-bt.livejournal.com/226442.html
      http://valery-mukhin.livejournal.com/180690.html
  17. Alexanderlaskov
    Alexanderlaskov 12 July 2013 09: 24 New
    -1
    10000 of these tanks in our army.
    1. Poppy
      Poppy 12 July 2013 10: 25 New
      +2
      why in such quantities?
      you are like Tukhachevsky with his tank armada
    2. allosaurus
      allosaurus 12 July 2013 10: 42 New
      +2
      10000 of these tanks in our army, and the country will stretch its legs, no need to write stupid things.
      1. Sleptsoff
        Sleptsoff 12 July 2013 11: 24 New
        +2
        The person wanted to pick pluses, but you ...)
  18. Ezhaak
    Ezhaak 12 July 2013 09: 44 New
    +1
    since, according to some technical points, the public is presented with the “only true” point of view.

    Ну когда наша молодёжь, поддерживающая этих трепачей поймёт, что "киздеть" не мешки ворочать? Блогеры не второе категорически на способны. Они обладают лишь языками. Фоты с "нефорума" однозначно показывают, что очень любят поспать. Отсюда и идеи.
  19. krpmlws
    krpmlws 12 July 2013 09: 45 New
    -1
    Apparently I’m misunderstood something, but the placement of the engine in front can be compensated by moving the tower to the stern of the hull. It seems to me that the designers just decided not to bother and settled on the worked out scheme. Will the crew and tank end up winning in terms of combat qualities? I doubt that I hoped that the designers were designing a truly revolutionary tank, however, in the design of Almaty, there were likely to be compromises.
    1. Ezhaak
      Ezhaak 12 July 2013 09: 55 New
      +1
      The example of Merkava clearly demonstrated that breaking through the frontal armor leads to a complete stop of the tank. And only miracles did not allow them to finish off, to destroy completely. Or lack of weapons. But they could. After all, the Jews write on their websites that their tanks were attacked by THOUSANDS ATGM. And as soon as their language turned to write such nonsense?
      Designers know better what is good and what is bad.
    2. cdrt
      cdrt 12 July 2013 11: 40 New
      0
      Or maybe you read why the Pz-III, Pz-V, T-44 and all its development were so good, why are they trying to get the tower as close to the center as possible (by the way, which one? wink ) set, balance the frontal armor with the engine at the back, etc.
      All literature, even previously closed, is available.
    3. Albert1988
      Albert1988 12 July 2013 13: 19 New
      0
      Quote: krpmlws
      I hoped that the designers are designing a truly revolutionary tank, however, in the design of Almaty, there are likely to be compromises.

      Any good tank - and there is a compromise between firepower, security and mobility, so the design of a new tank must be compromised)))
      1. krpmlws
        krpmlws 12 July 2013 21: 01 New
        0
        Quote: Albert1988
        Quote: krpmlws
        I hoped that the designers are designing a truly revolutionary tank, however, in the design of Almaty, there are likely to be compromises.

        Any good tank - and there is a compromise between firepower, security and mobility, so the design of a new tank must be compromised)))

        I meant, of course, a little different, you probably didn’t understand. It seemed to me that the main ideology of Armata would be the crew’s security. Hence the front placement of the engine and the uninhabited tower. The author of the article wrote about the effect of the front placement of the engine on patency. This is a compromise , that is, a deviation from the ideology of maximum protection for the crew. Of course, the history of tank building is a history of compromises, but all concrete compromises are dictated by time, specific requirements. At the present time, the protection of the crew, in my opinion, is a primary task, and all the others, therefore, are secondary Those who are interested in the history of the Second World War are aware of the large number of cases when the crew left the serviceable tank during the battle. Following the ideology of maximum protection can minimize these negative phenomena. Otherwise, tankers will be subjected to excessive psychological stress during the battle, as happened in the Second World War when using classic tanks .
  20. Kars
    Kars 12 July 2013 09: 50 New
    +5
    will not be shown to the general public in September, as previously planned. Show cars will be closed. This was reported to reporters by Dmitry Rogozin.


    A simple question: WHY? Why tell reporters that there is a private show if everything is secret? What is the point?
    1. Armata
      Armata 12 July 2013 09: 54 New
      12
      Quote: Kars
      A simple question: WHY? Why tell reporters that there is a private show if everything is secret? What is the point?
      Rogozin Ponty oppresses. Well, or give away charity noodles for free.
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 12 July 2013 09: 55 New
      +8
      To pretend that they did not sit in a puddle. At first the project was publicized, now the reputation results of public control are reaping.
      1. cdrt
        cdrt 12 July 2013 11: 44 New
        +3
        Mnda. Monopoly is always bad. So here - before there were Peter, UVZ, Omsk. There was only UVZ. Now the creators of this situation, and at the same time the whole country will be forced to endure all the actions of the monopoly, there is no government for it
        1. dominion
          dominion 13 July 2013 06: 30 New
          0
          Is UVZ to blame for the fact that in the 90s it turned out to be the most tenacious of all?
  21. Vlad_Mir
    Vlad_Mir 12 July 2013 10: 05 New
    +2
    So much has already been written! It feels like copying each other's articles! There will be a tank, we will discuss!
  22. Wedmak
    Wedmak 12 July 2013 10: 13 New
    0
    But information about Armata still passes. A month for a teaspoon, but still. And every time it gets more interesting. Let's tighten up and make a tower! And for the New Year, under the Christmas tree! A chic army gift will be!
  23. Dymkovsky
    Dymkovsky 12 July 2013 10: 29 New
    0
    I don’t ask for a toilet in the tank, but put in an air conditioner.
  24. IRBIS
    IRBIS 12 July 2013 10: 40 New
    +2
    "Но знаете, у нас заряжание танковых пушек автоматизировано уже несколько десятилетий как. И «ручной заряжающий» просто отсутствует в экипаже."
    Question. How and by whom will the gun be loaded in case of failure of the automatic machine (mechanism) of loading? Caring for the crew’s life is right, it’s good. Only after all, the crew must also fight, in any situation. And the failure of individual components and assemblies has not yet been canceled.
    1. Nazrug
      Nazrug 12 July 2013 11: 21 New
      +3
      And who will push the tank if the engine breaks down? And who will turn the tower if the turning mechanism breaks?
      1. IRBIS
        IRBIS 12 July 2013 12: 33 New
        +3
        Quote: Nazrug
        And who will push the tank if the engine breaks down? And who will turn the tower if the turning mechanism breaks?

        If the engine breaks down, then you can fire from a place. If the tower rotation drive is broken, then it is deployed manually
        Но если орудие не стреляет, то это уже не танк, а "шайтан-арба".
    2. s1н7т
      s1н7т 12 July 2013 11: 46 New
      +1
      Quote: IRBIS
      Question. How and by whom will the gun be loaded in case of failure of the automatic machine (mechanism) of loading?

      Ответ. Заряжание орудия в случае выхода... производит командир танка согласно "мануала". soldier
    3. cdrt
      cdrt 12 July 2013 11: 50 New
      0
      That's funny, the answer to the words that in Armata the capsule is very crowded - but you have a loader, but we have AZ ... And where does it? It seems that the Greek tender clearly showed that AZ / MZ did not give much superiority. Allowed to reduce the dimensions, but their own reduction forced to put in the BO shells mixed with unprotected tanks. And it seems like Leo2 with the loader is not much worse than the T-64/72/80/84 came out.
      And most importantly - this is not an answer to the words about crowding in the capsule wink it’s rather from the series - and you are being oppressed by blacks. Those. loud but out of place
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 12 July 2013 12: 30 New
        +2
        And most importantly - this is not an answer to the words about crowding in the capsule

        It is not clear how the author can even think about crowding without seeing this capsule itself. And crowding is a relative thing. Ensuring a comfortable workplace for crew members is the main task. And the fact that they are sitting 10 cm from each other should excite only those suffering from claustrophobia.
    4. Wedmak
      Wedmak 12 July 2013 12: 27 New
      +1
      How and by whom will the gun be loaded in case of failure of the automatic machine (mechanism) of loading?

      Как часто ломается сей механизм? И если так смотреть на эту проблему, то желательно "про запас" еще и заряжающего иметь. Сделать ему нишу в корме, нехай сидит. smile
      In my opinion, it is necessary to automate what can be done with maximum reliability. And if it is jammed - this is the tank’s exit from the battle, because all the same, even with manual loading, the chance of getting knocked out increases sharply.
    5. The comment was deleted.
  25. Smersh
    Smersh 12 July 2013 11: 30 New
    0
    I hope it will not be exported
  26. SPIRITofFREEDOM
    SPIRITofFREEDOM 12 July 2013 12: 31 New
    +2
    Главное Китай нахр"ен посылать с закупками по 10 единиц !!!
    1. flanker7
      flanker7 12 July 2013 22: 26 New
      0
      No, for any fuck .. hell send!
  27. Avenger711
    Avenger711 12 July 2013 12: 54 New
    -2
    Tarasenko is not worth listening at all, Khlopotov wrote on his blog that if they don’t show it, then the project is overwhelmed, and the generals are completely idiots.
  28. Alexey M
    Alexey M 12 July 2013 13: 15 New
    0
    Noise is not much use
  29. Fedych
    Fedych 12 July 2013 13: 22 New
    -2
    How much of idleness and spiritual atrophy in this matter. It seems that no one else has clearly seen the tank - and now, forms, types, possible characteristics - and from whom, to whom, why? It means that the saying of the hot Soviet is still true, wherever one works, if only one does not work. A bunch of idle people with idle and empty fantasies are killing themselves, their time is not a possible thought and a reasonably conscious existence. If this goes on, the same insane communism will kill modern Russia as well. Meat thinking only about meat and meat carnal is sad from that Roman plebeian from gladiatorship and only bread, circuses and into the grave, horror.
  30. Dezzed
    Dezzed 12 July 2013 14: 37 New
    +2
    guys, no one told me about armature in a scratch. but one thing is clear to the beaver, as long as there is no replacement for the commander who cautiously pokes his head out of the hatch and directs his team into battle with his own eyes and ears.
    no video cameras help. have already tried
  31. The comment was deleted.
  32. Semyon Albertovich
    Semyon Albertovich 12 July 2013 14: 51 New
    +1
    Many Serdyukovites will be sold in Russia, hanging noodles to fill their pocket in London (the capital of Russian thieves) with the British, lovers of thieves' money.
  33. t-95
    t-95 12 July 2013 15: 02 New
    0
    “Secret developments must have a specific clearance format. Those who will be admitted, they, accordingly, will see the combat power of "Almaty", - said Sienko. - When the public display of such secret products is allowed, we will notify you. While we do not trade secret developments. Everything must be carried out in accordance with the regulations defined by the secrecy stamp ”
  34. t-95
    t-95 12 July 2013 15: 03 New
    -1
    Recall that earlier on the air of Ekho Moskvy radio station, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said that the latest Armata tank, created at Uralvagonzavod, will be first shown in closed format to the country's top political leadership at the arms exhibition in Nizhny Tagil in September this year. “Armata” will be demonstrated in a closed format at an exhibition in Nizhny Tagil in September this year. Several samples will be demonstrated for the country's top political leadership, ”Rogozin said.
  35. Pablo_K
    Pablo_K 12 July 2013 15: 05 New
    0
    Well, what are we discussing here?
    What will be shown to the general public in a closed show (which then is the narrow public?)
    at best there will be an experimental sample, which is still far from the series.
    That's when the new tank enters the troops in sufficient quantities and we will discuss what happened.
  36. Alexanderlaskov
    Alexanderlaskov 12 July 2013 15: 21 New
    +1
    Quote: allosaurus
    10000 of these tanks in our army, and the country will stretch its legs, no need to write stupid things.

    I agree with the criticism. While our country, even 100 of these tanks will be hard to pull. I have indicated such a number in connection with the NATO threat. In my opinion, such a quantity is necessary for protection from the west and east.
  37. nemec55
    nemec55 12 July 2013 15: 22 New
    0
    You’ve said mushrooms here, they’ll provide the whole country with a forest.
  38. Was mammoth
    Was mammoth 12 July 2013 15: 22 New
    0
    М-да-а-а! Обсуждение "Арматы" сколько длится? Никто не видел, никто не знает, но идет бурное обсуждение фантома. Мне это напоминает бабок на скамейке, знающих всё и обсуждающих всё.
    We would like to have the best tank in the world. But for now, everything is at the gossip level. A tank will appear, there will be something to discuss.
    1. Pablo_K
      Pablo_K 12 July 2013 16: 11 New
      0
      Quote: There was a mammoth
      М-да-а-а! Обсуждение "Арматы" сколько длится? Никто не видел, никто не знает, но идет бурное обсуждение фантома. Мне это напоминает бабок на скамейке, знающих всё и обсуждающих всё.
      We would like to have the best tank in the world. But for now, everything is at the gossip level. A tank will appear, there will be something to discuss.

      + for comparison with grandmas
      I’m talking about the same, so far there is nothing to discuss.
  39. Navy7981
    Navy7981 12 July 2013 15: 32 New
    0
    А что, нормально "не читал, но осуждаю..."
  40. Gardamir
    Gardamir 12 July 2013 16: 59 New
    +1
    С предыдущими высказываниями согласен. Танка никто не видел, но по обсуждать надо. Меня же волнует другой вопрос (задавал здесь неоднократно) Почему называется "Армата"? У нас что русских слов нет? Например "Медведь". И звучит красиво русский "Медведь" заломал немецкий "Леопард". Или одним ударом "Медведь" снёс башню "Абрамсу"
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 12 July 2013 17: 12 New
      +1
      Quote: Gardamir
      Меня же волнует другой вопрос (задавал здесь неоднократно) Почему называется "Армата"? У нас что русских слов нет?

      This is the name of the artillery gun. Used in Russia in the second half of the 14th century
  41. alexpro66
    alexpro66 12 July 2013 17: 07 New
    0
    Quote: Mechanic
    Quote: Rustam
    We will not see him this year for sure - I’m talking for everyone

    private show will take place with a limited number of participants from enterprises to a minimum of people, a designer and a crew

    there will be Armata, Boomerang, Kurganets (if they have time) and much more

    I will say one thing Armata and Boomer-these will be revolutionary products + it is said very strongly from my lips I know what I'm talking about

    just have to wait, and most importantly there is 100% financing
    And which tank will be shown if there is no tower yet? Dreams Dreams. Because he is closed and there is nothing to show. Believe me, yesterday from 6 to 22 I was sitting at the factory so that they could rivet not a test one, but an exhibition one. There will be no Almaty there, I don’t know about the Kurgan, maybe the guys will have time.

    Извините Механик но вы просто сказочник-басенник не имеющий ни какого отношения к УВЗ и Армате Ибо все ваши высказывания по Армате почерпнуты из интернета И НЕТ СОМНЕНИЙ ЧТО НИКАКОЙ ДОСТОВЕРНОЙ ИНФОРМАЦИЕЙ НЕ ОБЛАДАЕТЕ! Хотя бы одно слово чего стоит "БАШНЯ" Так на УВЗ никто не называет то что будет сверху шасси! Да и все ваши выказывания о шасси ОБТ Армата смешны..Не пудрите мозги людям! Показ Арматы будет в статитке с элементами макетов вместо некоторых не готовых компонентов и показать есть что! Вы мне можете сейчас описать как выглядит хотя бы шасси ОБТ , на что похоже? И на ходу ли оно? И откуда вы взяли какое-то "выставочное" шасси? Что за сказки? Корыто одно единственное и ещё компоновочный макет! Больше ничего нет и не было!
  42. alexpro66
    alexpro66 12 July 2013 18: 52 New
    -1
    Quote: Mechanic
    Quote: evgenii67
    оторно-трансмиссионное отделение (МТО) будет расположено традиционно — в корме корпуса. Это, конечно, расстроит многих любителей бронетехники, надеявшихся на переднее расположение МТО, по аналогии с израильской «Меркавой»." Вы вроде бы писали, что будет переднее МТО
    For self-propelled guns and infantry fighting vehicles there will be a front, for obt we can say that it’s classic, but so far they also tend to the front (Just putting the amount of weapons that is planned on the combat module, increasing the length of the barrel and dragging it closer to the nose is still problematic). I do not know yet what will happen for OBT. Do not forget that this is the development of the KB transmash (they were always famous for their self-propelled guns), the combat modules are designed by Omichi. And it relates to UVZ only because this design bureau has deprived of its production and given all the sites for UVZ.

    A vivid example of the fantasies of Mechanics! The task for the MBT platform was approved back in the spring of last year, and now the product should be handed over, and according to him, everyone will not decide where the MTO is !!!! Balabol! For self-propelled guns, the rear MTO has also been approved for a long time!
    1. Armata
      Armata 13 July 2013 11: 05 New
      +2
      Quote: alexpro66
      A vivid example of the fantasies of Mechanics! The task for the MBT platform was approved back in the spring of last year, and now the product should be handed over, and according to him, everyone will not decide where the MTO is !!!! Balabol! For self-propelled guns, the rear MTO has also been approved for a long time!
      Do you even know the boy the difference between the task and the design documentation? Yes, many such experts. They carry garbage, And then everyone considers liars except themselves. Bring truth to the masses of gurus, if the smartest.
  43. Alexanderlaskov
    Alexanderlaskov 12 July 2013 20: 52 New
    0
    Tank armature in 50 years will be in service. And then in a small amount. As it was already and will be. Some show off
  44. alexpro66
    alexpro66 12 July 2013 21: 21 New
    -2
    Все будет во время ! Просто иногда смешно видеть ДУРАКОВ во главе МО и вокруг них! Зарубить в своё время 195 (даже не пытаться подогнать его ТТХ под требования единой платформы-а платформа это не внешний вид а унификация узлов и агрегатов) что мешало? Придумали слова "избыточен","сложен","дорог"-нужны новые производства,новая элементная база,новые технологии и что в результате?? А сделаем Армату! Дешевле и актуальнее! Только вот чтоб её создать потребовалось всё то же самое что было необходимо для 195!! Вот щас и в срочном порядке гонят создание новых цехов.закупку оборудования для смежных производств и т.д - а это время. Хорошо хоть тупого гуся Сердюкова сняли Шойгу и Рогозин сработаются-надеюсь новой войны МО-ВПК не предвидится! О чем можно было думать когда элементарно не было требуемх оптических производств-тепловизионые матрицы вообще разговаривать не хочется,элементная база-притча во языцах, Мозги в КБ есть мозгов не хватает у других у которых по идее из-за их статуса они должны быть.. (или их заменил доллар)
    1. Armata
      Armata 13 July 2013 11: 07 New
      +1
      Quote: alexpro66
      Hack 195 at one time (not even try to tailor its performance characteristics to the requirements of a single platform — and the platform is not an appearance but a unification of units and assemblies) what prevented?

      You just yelled differently?
      Quote: alexpro66
      And we will make Armata! Cheaper and more relevant! But to create it, it took all the same that was necessary for 195 !! Right now, and urgently urging the creation of new workshops. The purchase of equipment for related industries, etc. - and this is the time. Well, at least the stupid goose Serdyukov was removed by Shoigu and Rogozin to work together, I hope a new war of the MO-VPK is not expected! What could one think about when elementary optical production was not required — thermal imaging matrices don’t want to talk at all, the elemental base is a parable in languages, there are not enough brains in design bureaus for others who, in theory, should have them because of their status .. (or replaced by a dollar)
      Yeah. you are simply ridiculous with your statements. Tell me where is the UVZ and where is the platform tested?
  45. Deniska
    Deniska 13 July 2013 01: 14 New
    0
    Скажу честно не что получится из "Арматы". На мой взгляд должно быль однозначто что о очень хорошее иначе наши военные вообще потеряют уважение. Но наша школа танкостроения если не лучшая то точно одна из лучших и "какашку" точно не слепят!!!
  46. castle
    castle 13 July 2013 03: 18 New
    +1
    Rather, there is no tank than there is. Because, as there is no definite concept for using the tank itself. Do you need a tank for defense, for a breakthrough or universal? Or, in general, do you need some other car? You can, of course, create a battleship on the tracks and surprise the whole world. But to hell? And for what money?
  47. Dimka off
    Dimka off 13 July 2013 13: 31 New
    +1
    However, the choice of this weapon is one of the subjects of criticism. Indeed, a significant increase in the firepower of the new tank could be the installation of a more powerful 152-mm smoothbore 2A83 gun. She also passed the test and has a set of modern ammunition, similar to 2А82, only made in a larger caliber. This gun was supposed to be installed on the prototype of the tank, which was not yet adopted by the armed forces - the “195 object” (image), which was popularly called T-95.


    I am also a supporter of the increase in caliber. If it was not possible to bring this weapon to mind among Western scientists, this does not mean that our designers will not be able to do it. And by the way, in one of the articles on this subject it is said that the object 195, although not accepted for service, is brought to mind at the expense of Uralvagonzavod, since the sample is obtained better than Armata, although more expensive.
    Although if there is a line of the latest ammunition for a 125 mm gun, this is also wonderful.
  48. t-95
    t-95 13 July 2013 15: 41 New
    -3
    Mr. Mechanic, at least give me the number of the workshop in which you sit day and night and cry over an unfinished tank. In general, honestly, all your moans about the sold Russia and the defense industry, why are they?
  49. t-95
    t-95 13 July 2013 16: 10 New
    0
    can I find out by what criteria, does the administration delete comments?
    1. Yegorchik
      Yegorchik 13 July 2013 18: 39 New
      +1
      You can find out.
      P.S.Наверху,кликни на слово "правила".
  50. alexpro66
    alexpro66 13 July 2013 17: 41 New
    -4
    Quote: Mechanic
    Quote: alexpro66
    Hack 195 at one time (not even try to tailor its performance characteristics to the requirements of a single platform — and the platform is not an appearance but a unification of units and assemblies) what prevented?
    You just yelled differently?

    Excuse me, in what class are you studying, Mr. Fantazer? What did I scream? At least learn to read and then understand what you read! So as not to sculpt such answers! I asked you a specific question above! Reply first to him!
    Quote: alexpro66
    And we will make Armata! Cheaper and more relevant! But to create it, it took all the same that was necessary for 195 !! Right now, and urgently urging the creation of new workshops. The purchase of equipment for related industries, etc. - and this is the time. Well, at least the stupid goose Serdyukov was removed by Shoigu and Rogozin to work together, I hope a new war of the MO-VPK is not expected! What could one think about when elementary optical production was not required — thermal imaging matrices don’t want to talk at all, the elemental base is a parable in languages, there are not enough brains in design bureaus for others who, in theory, should have them because of their status .. (or replaced by a dollar)
    Yeah. you are simply ridiculous with your statements. Tell me where is the UVZ and where is the platform tested?

    What's so funny about my comment you commented on? The first sign of balabolism is to answer a question with a question?
    Когда ответите мне на вышепоставленный вопрос- я отвечу вам на этот вопрос!"Скажи мне где находится УВЗ и где испытывают платформу?" И ещё мне особенно нравится Ваше -ТЫ - при обращении ко мне!!)))
    (Anticipating the lack of an answer in advance, I repeat, YOU ARE A TELLER AND A FANTASER and still an ignoramus!