Military Review

"There is a lot of work there." The historian told what the servicemen of the scientific unit can do in the archives of the Ministry of Defense

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"There is a lot of work there." The historian told what the servicemen of the scientific unit can do in the archives of the Ministry of Defense“You can show the real achievements of the Red Army on the battlefield, which will be the best answer to those who said that the Red Army is an unorganized crowd,” so military historian Alexey Isaev explained to the newspaper VIEW his understanding of the meaning of scientific companies. The servicemen of one of them, as envisioned by the leadership of the military department, will also work in the Central Archive of the Ministry of Defense.


Scientific companies created in the Armed Forces will conduct scientific activities in the line of the humanities, Nikolai Pankov, state secretary, said on Wednesday.

“We are working in this direction. A very important area is sociology, psychology, история. We are working on the possibility of creating a small unit at the Central Archive, ”he said.

According to him, these specialists will study, first of all, the history of the Second World War, their scientific activity will be connected with the argumentation of those historical falsifications that today have become widespread both in Russia and abroad.

The newspaper VIEW turned to the historian Alexei Isaev, who specializes in the history of the Great Patriotic War, with a request to tell you about the benefits that the service of such a unit can bring.

VIEW: Alexey Valerievich, how do you feel about the initiative of the Ministry of Defense to send a scientific department to the archive?

Alexey Isaev: I think they can be used for the necessary and useful work, which is the completion of the database "Feat of the People" and "Memorial". There is a lot of work. What has already been done is a great deal of work and is very useful for both ordinary citizens and professional historians. These databases are a legitimate source of pride of the Ministry of Defense, and if this work is developed and deepened, it will be a great positive effect from the use of people qualified and able to handle complex data digitization techniques.

VIEW: The Deputy Minister mentioned that the military will be involved in scientific work related to countering falsification ...

A. I .: For students of humanitarian universities, there is no end of work on the study of certain controversial issues. For example, there is such work as collecting complete statistical data for the entire war on the security of the Red Army with small arms in order to once and for all close the question of one rifle for three, ten, etc. On the activities of such units as penal battalions, their role.

Another, narrower and very difficult task is the formation of such an array of data, which can be called "real feats". It is no secret to anyone that, unfortunately, those episodes of war that became widely known often appeared during the war and were the product of propaganda work, while there are a lot of real achievements and feats that were difficult or impossible to reveal hot on the heels of the forces of journalists, but quite capable of historians. You can show the real and weighty achievements of the Red Army on the battlefield, which will be the best answer to those who said that “the Red Army is an unorganized crowd”, “constantly ran away from the battlefield,” that is, what may be called falsification of history.

VIEW: What professional requirements should meet those who can be entrusted with such work?

A. I .: If you take the work on digitization, then a person can do it immediately after school. More complex things, such as optimizing the databases themselves and increasing the efficiency of searching them, require students with technical education, with certain programming skills. As for the humanities, this should be third-fifth year students, when there are already certain skills of historical work. Archival, memorial work, the implementation of real tasks will be the best practice for children.

VIEW: Shoigu promised that "thieves" will not fall into such units. In your opinion, is the likelihood that they will be idlers who want to do light service?

A. I .: There is such a probability. But still this kind of work. “Light service” - these are positions that do not require a result. It also requires a very real result, so many cards or sheets scan - this is the result that you can ask.

VIEW: If a soldier is assigned to write a scientific work, but he did not do it, what is his risk? He is not expelled from the army, the service life is ...

A. I .: They will impose a penalty, they will not let go to the city, etc. There are always leverage. The question is that the abilities and skills of people to start service should be used rationally. Because otherwise, a person will set up computers and printers in the headquarters, or draw posters, or do something else that does not bring a direct obvious service to the Fatherland.

VIEW: It is obvious that the Ministry of Defense is interested not only in scientific truth itself, but also in some kind of propaganda. How effective, in your opinion, will this propaganda function be implemented?

A. I .: If there is some knowledge that is widespread, then responding to the attacks of falsifiers becomes much easier. Take the example of losses in the Great Patriotic War. At the turn of perestroika and the new state - the Russian Federation - Krivoshein's work, “The Grief of Secrecy was lifted”, appeared, in which statistical data is given: it is known that 34 million people passed through the army. It is clear that it is impossible to write above a certain loss limit. The army, through which 34 million people have passed, cannot lose 40 million.

The best propaganda is to tell people the truth. When it is possible to find, formulate and present this truth to the public, this will be the best propaganda step. Do not confuse propaganda and lies. Sometimes we are confused - to lead propaganda, we must lie. But this is obviously not the case.

There is a site of the Ministry of Defense. Wishing to enter, dials the query "Gastello." He is given an article from facsimile documents. "Defense of Stalingrad." Statistics are issued. When we have internetization going forward by leaps and bounds, the ability to go to the website of the Ministry of Defense and get an answer to the question is very important. If scientific companies are used for this, it will be of great benefit.

VIEW: What do you think, how many calls will there be enough work for such units?

A. I .: They will definitely have a job before 2045. There are so many. The same lend-lease, the real role of foreign technology in our army. This is a work for several doctors. There is a lot of rough work, when you need to thoroughly examine huge arrays of documents, sift certain information, then squeeze out of it all.

In addition, let's not forget that now is the time when it will be necessary to deal with Afghanistan, and the history of the Armed Forces of the country for the 20th century as a whole.
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  1. pensioner
    pensioner 12 July 2013 07: 38
    0
    In principle, right. In such matters related to working with a huge array of documents, there is always a shortage of those who do the technical work.
    Again: "And you don't have to pay him!" You will not save a lot on this business, of course, but the problem of inviting technical personnel to low-paid jobs will disappear by itself.
    1. PPL
      PPL 12 July 2013 08: 42
      +2
      What’s right here?
      And so there are already a lot of "loopholes" with an alternative service.
      Only one year was left to comprehend the basics of military service! But here, too, they lay a perink for their children-humanities.
      I do not believe Shoigu’s words about equal opportunities for all !!! He will not distribute the call in a family way.
      And in general, the soldier has a different purpose. No matter how they scolded Serdyukov (I am not his supporter), but he was the only one who freed the army from functions unusual for her (or tried to do it). What came of this is a separate question, but the idea was a good one.
      By the way, the involvement of soldiers as "free labor" in the disposal of ammunition led to sad consequences. And the low-paid technical personnel who were previously engaged in utilization, who were dispersed from arsenals and bases in the 90s, and are now ready to work for the little money that the state considers it possible to pay today. And this is in spite of the existing risk.
      1. S_mirnov
        S_mirnov 12 July 2013 12: 19
        +1
        In fact, in my opinion - like that.
        Previously (in the USSR), the state economy was managed efficiently, so the state’s income was sufficient for maintaining the army and maintaining structures interconnected with it (institutions and research institutes serving the army, including programmers). Soldier - served, civilian specialists served.
        Now (the Russian Federation), the state economy is managed so ineffectively that there is barely enough money to support the army, but there is no money to maintain research institutes and institutions (not only the economy, but also ineffective government, oligarchs, corruption, diplomatic defeat).
        So the army men are trying to plug holes with the help of conscripts (free labor) and instead of learning to fight, they will study the history of pseudo-soldiers, and if the war, they will throw books at enemies.
        You understand that in the event of a protracted war, a professional army will end quickly, and there will be no one to put under arms.
    2. vladimirZ
      vladimirZ 12 July 2013 15: 42
      +1
      "... In such cases related to work with a huge array of documents, there is always a shortage of those who do technical work ..." pensioner (2)  Today, 07:38

      Everything is correct "students" will perform "rough work" to collect and process information for candidate and doctoral dissertations of their supervisors. "Negroes" are needed for military scholars, historians and writers, so as not to rummage through dusty archives themselves.
      In general, "the soldier is asleep, but the service is in progress," and then demobilization is not far off.
    3. aviamed90
      aviamed90 12 July 2013 16: 16
      +3
      senior citizen

      And who will fight?
      1. S_mirnov
        S_mirnov 12 July 2013 19: 09
        +2
        "And who will fight?" - and we are not going to fight at all! Gas to Europpe or oil to China we will redraw (like Ukraine) and everyone will surrender laughing And America, according to the chances of this site, will soon decay itself and go bankrupt.
        But seriously, the problem is huge with the training of soldiers and with morale. The Kremlin thinks that it is possible to steal as Berezovsky, and they will fight for them as for Stalin. So they are very mistaken.
      2. Rus2012
        Rus2012 13 July 2013 04: 15
        -1
        Quote: aviamed90
        And who will fight?

        professors from the militia and Podolsk cadets, who died back in 41 in the fields of the Moscow region. Stop hammering nails with a "microscope"!
        Those losses are still chattering!
    4. Rus2012
      Rus2012 13 July 2013 04: 32
      +1
      Quote: retired
      In such matters related to working with a huge array of documents, there is always a shortage of those who do the technical work.

      That's it!
      A vivid example - even the photos of the Temp-2S self-propelled launcher, which were still on the base in the Ghost Division of the Strategic Missile Forces, were lost and still not found! Few of the current rocket officers know about these glorious deeds! And I'm not talking about other no less glorious events ...
      Living witnesses will leave, - "monsters of history" will be born, such as that Hitler was defeated by the Yankees ...
  2. serge-68-68
    serge-68-68 12 July 2013 08: 16
    11
    Personally, I would entrust modern "students" only to photocopying and digitizing. Working with documents - after a VERY serious check (and there is no time for it). And then, I am afraid that the equipment (and it is quite expensive) will ruin. In general, the idea of ​​creating a "scientific" mouth is nonsense of the inflamed brain of some military PiaRas. In Soviet times, military service did not prevent young people from building any career after it, including a scientific one.
    1. OTTO
      OTTO 12 July 2013 12: 29
      +4
      Quote: serge-68-68
      In general, the idea of ​​creating a "scientific" mouth is nonsense of an inflamed brain

      I completely agree. One year is not enough to understand the work and give an acceptable result, unless of course it is not considered an acceptable result to attach a VERY good person to the son’s warm place (and this can become relevant if the law on restricting the rights of those who do not serve is adopted).
      1. Rus2012
        Rus2012 13 July 2013 04: 37
        -1
        Quote: OTTO
        One year is not enough to understand the work and give an acceptable result

        then you need to make 2 of the year at least! Or five, if there is any sense ...
  3. Airman
    Airman 12 July 2013 08: 48
    +1
    The history of the Second World War is not well understood, and if this scientific company studies at least a little the unknown facts of the war, then there will be some sense in it.
    1. aviamed90
      aviamed90 12 July 2013 14: 06
      +3
      Pvoshnik-u


      Soon, in addition to scientific companies, we may have, by analogy, agricultural, legal, psychological, managerial, oil and gas, etc. companies - there are a lot of universities!

      Or maybe just honestly serve as it should be in the army and not powder your brains and yourself?
    2. Very old
      Very old 12 July 2013 17: 42
      +1
      Vyacheslav, dear. Yes, rare of them are able to scribble on their own. It's not 1963 when we were in demand. They get their knowledge from the Internet, and professors advertise beer (do you remember the video about Klinsky?) Working with archives requires perseverance, patience, diligence, good "corrosiveness", which for a 20-year-old boy oh-how-oh. In 1 year, what can he do?
      1. Airman
        Airman 12 July 2013 19: 26
        +2
        Quote: Old very
        Vyacheslav, dear. Yes, rare of them are able to scribble on their own. It's not 1963 when we were in demand. They get their knowledge from the Internet, and professors advertise beer (do you remember the video about Klinsky?) Working with archives requires perseverance, patience, diligence, good "corrosiveness", which for a 20-year-old boy oh-how-oh. In 1 year, what can he do?

        I’m not saying that they will make discoveries, but recently a veteran of the Artillery Academy was awarded a medal, which he was awarded in 1942. If out of 10000 documents examined, at least one such document is found, then good.
      2. Rus2012
        Rus2012 13 July 2013 05: 10
        0
        Quote: Very old
        Yes, a rare one of them is capable of independently gaining course.

        why should everyone be driven into these companies? So db open competition and competition ... and with a view to the future ...
        Not from scratch, the talk about "HP" began. Unleash the officials - and they will poke their children. As if there are no such warm places for "geeks" in the form of staff secretaries, controllers of the pass bureau, and so on.
  4. Letnab
    Letnab 12 July 2013 11: 09
    0
    in the news, a parallel article, muddy it all! a young boy, without life experience, is sent to documents, and asked to draw conclusions, there he thinks of this in these scientific studies. I remember how in college, on practical work of students, one professor wrote scientific papers, and some of the student groups did assignments anyhow. sucked from a finger ....
    here in our country they look at the West, and they measure everything for themselves, but you can take something good in military training ... study at the state’s expense, then a military contract is required upon graduation, the rest is urgent .. here’s an increase in mob potential , and with education! here you have the creation of scientific departments, when there is a ready-made specialist, why not use ..
  5. Valery-SPB
    Valery-SPB 12 July 2013 11: 27
    +3
    Petty Officer: - Who studied music? Break down. So. Everyone will disperse, and you will follow me in a march! Pull the piano!
  6. Reserve buildbat
    Reserve buildbat 12 July 2013 12: 41
    +3
    In principle, the idea is good. Send to these departments of limited use. Moreover, I know from experience - there are huge masses of documents in the archives, which are often processed by 1-2 specialists. And it is not necessary to force conscripts to draw conclusions. Let the "rough" dig out. It's just that data on deliveries, all numbers, digitization of the lists is carried out.
  7. The comment was deleted.
  8. stalkerwalker
    stalkerwalker 12 July 2013 15: 13
    +3
    “You can show the real achievements of the Red Army on the battlefield, which will be the best answer to those who said that“ The Red Army is an unorganized crowd ”...
    And this is the main topic of the article.
    Just for those who recently, when discussing the testing of two Soviet tanks in the United States, "tore their throats" that "just ..." half of the country and ruined millions of lives. To the question of how, more specifically, how the country should have been prepared and then fought, the answer was the same: "I am a patriot! And the country ....", etc.
    Then it turned out that this patriot had not read one sensible study, he did not even know the names of the odious "hacks", only "... I heard about Rez ... not".
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 12 July 2013 19: 33
      +4
      Quote: stalkerwalker
      : "I am a patriot! And the country ...."

      Silent "minus" only confirms the above words.
      For such "urYa-patriots" A. Samsonov uploads here, on VO, the most detailed articles about the course of the Battle from the battles for which both sides have been preparing in the most thorough way for several months. and where it is clearly seen that an error (unforced) in determining the direction of the main attack of the Wehrmacht on the southern face of the arc of only 20 km could lead to a disastrous result.
      Now let the "people of great knowledge" of history apply this situation to June 1941.
      Or, for example, to the beginning of Operation Bagration in June 1944.
      1. Stas57
        Stas57 12 July 2013 19: 36
        0
        stalkerwalker

        plusanul
        Everyone is somehow judging by themselves, the strong guy on the pitching, but ...
        In the choice - "building a summer residence for the general (s)", an army, and an archive, a skinny bespectacled man may be more useful to the Motherland in the archive.
        can it be true that there is, as a reward above.

        ps. I have already repeatedly come across the position you mentioned above, when the "know-nothing" will curse everyone around with foam at the mouth, and he does not care about any arguments.
        They generally do not care about the archives, because this is work, hard work, and not always such work pours balm on the heart, very often you see not by "all lying Germans", but by our documents - cowardice, betrayal, meanness and baseness and heroism and courage and other ordinary faces of war, for which the "know nothing" does not care.
        1. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 12 July 2013 20: 20
          +3
          Quote: Stas57
          Everyone is somehow judging by themselves, the strong guy on the pitch, but.

          Thanks, Stas.
          And for the plus, and for the (most important) support.
          hi
          1. Stas57
            Stas57 12 July 2013 23: 29
            +2
            never)

            I copied it to you from another branch


            I’ll say from my own experience that there is now a huge gap, the abyss, the abyss of generations, generations and material.
            example.
            in 60, a rural history teacher collected memories, documents, photos, traveled with children to places, maps of the graves of unknown soldiers, letters from combatants, meetings of veterans, veterans are still fresh and young, there are many of them, they are cheerful and active, these meetings are described by children,
            and now he died and all this, God forbid, fell into some Zamulin, or maybe they just threw him away.
            And so my friend and I spent half a March day in koryachki in the village, on the floor of an abandoned school, torn children's notebooks, crumpled, trampled and wet - with memories, descriptions, letters, etc., collected and sorted and to no one, you hear! no one needed it, they looked at us like idiots. and ask them - of course everyone will shout out their favorite mantra - "Thank you, thank you", tear off your white and blue striped naval jersey cursing Jews, Amers and Germans and Freemasons.
            Yes, only Victory, she was lying in the courtyard of that school, on these sheets was, there, behind the outskirts in the soldiers lying around in the fields, and not in the faces looking at us and screaming.
            Well, you understand me.
            sorry, pent ...
            1. stalkerwalker
              stalkerwalker 13 July 2013 15: 42
              +3
              Quote: Stas57
              sorry, pent ...

              You know, Stas, even so

              Quote: Stas57
              "Thank the granfather for the victory"

              More recently, it was much worse.
              Indeed, this Forum forms a DEFINED attitude to the country, to its history, to our people.

              Good luck!
          2. Rus2012
            Rus2012 13 July 2013 05: 17
            0
            Quote: stalkerwalker
            Everyone is somehow judging by themselves, the strong guy on the pitching, but ...

            ...exactly!
            Indeed, as in Vysotsky’s song -
            Comrades scientists, do not hesitate, dear Kohl, it doesn’t go well with you, well, there’s not the same effect. We will instantly show you with shovels and pitchforks, Denechek will ponder and correct the defect ...

            And it is necessary to professionally "hack" the cybernets of adversaries. And then pitching with barbells ...
  9. Was mammoth
    Was mammoth 12 July 2013 16: 25
    +3
    The "idea" of creating "scientific" and other mouths is vicious. This is another excuse from the service of certain "chosen ones." For a year he sat in the archives, sort of like serving. Maybe in officials. Scientific work (including humanitarian) must be carried out systematically, and this is already the responsibility of the state. Of course, it would be nice to involve volunteers.
  10. tt75tt
    tt75tt 12 July 2013 18: 54
    -5
    yes complete nonsense. it is necessary to restore order in military units. and do not engage in garbage. scientific work - only officers should be engaged
    1. svp67
      svp67 12 July 2013 21: 40
      +1
      Quote: tt75tt
      yes complete nonsense. it is necessary to restore order in military units. and do not engage in garbage. scientific work - only officers should be engaged
      It is true, but I was VERY grateful if these guys digitized all the documents relating to the Second World War, as well as grouped and laid out in net, this would have made a huge contribution to the fight against falsifications ...
      1. aviamed90
        aviamed90 13 July 2013 10: 43
        +1
        svp67

        Archival work is a necessary thing.

        But where does the army?
        1. svp67
          svp67 14 July 2013 10: 11
          0
          Quote: aviamed90
          But where does the army?
          And you think that the army does not have its own "archives". Podolsk alone, what is it worth ... And there are such "deposits" of invaluable documents, to which to get, you have to sweat a lot and there is not enough qualified personnel, and here is a whole company of students - historians ...
    2. Rus2012
      Rus2012 13 July 2013 04: 21
      0
      Quote: tt75tt
      scientific work - only officers should be engaged

      and laboratory assistants - officers?








      7
  11. taseka
    taseka 13 July 2013 05: 16
    +2
    There is no need to replace military research institutes with scientific companies, battalions and regiments of blat, children of Moscow elites!