Military Review

"Qatran" for France: the proposal of the expert

76
A few weeks ago, at the French shipyard in the city of Saint-Nazaire, the laying of the second Mistral type universal landing assault ship (UDC) took place for the naval fleet Of Russia. In addition, at the end of June, Russian shipbuilders from the Baltic Shipyard (St. Petersburg) sent a stern section of the first ship of this type to France. Allegedly, in the coming years, the Russian Navy will receive two new landing ships. On the French-made universal landing craft, both imported and domestic systems and weapons will be used. The latter include a special modification of the attack helicopter Ka-52, adapted for operation on ships.


"Qatran" for France: the proposal of the expert


To ensure the possibility of basing the helicopter at UDC, the design of the base Ka-52 had to make some changes. First of all, this is a mechanism for folding the rotor blades and anti-corrosion coating of a number of parts. These and other design innovations will allow the Ka-52K Katran attack helicopter to operate fully as part of aviation UDC groups and carry out the tasks assigned to it. Moreover, all the applied innovations in combination with the initial advantages of the new helicopter provide high combat potential. According to the deputy director of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (CAST) M. Barabanov, who is quoted by Interfax, the “bundle” of the Ka-52K helicopter and UDK type Mistral turned out to be very successful, and the integration of Russian helicopters into French-made ships improves both combat capabilities and commercial perspectives of ships.

Based on such features of ships and helicopters, the expert offers an interesting commercial move concerning further Russian-French cooperation in the field of military equipment. According to Barabanov, during negotiations on the construction of the third and fourth landing ships for our navy, the Russian side can raise the issue of a supplementary agreement on the supply of helicopters. In other words, Russia should offer France to purchase a certain amount of Ka-52K model shipborne percussion machines. These helicopters will be able to serve on the Mistral UDC project already present in the French naval forces, and, as a result, increase their combat capabilities. According to the expert, the Russian version of the French universal landing craft, which is planned to be equipped with attack helicopters Ka-52K, in its combat capabilities significantly exceeds their "original version." Mistral with such helicopters is more versatile, flexible and powerful ship.

Each UDC of the Mistral type can carry up to 16 or up to 35 helicopters, depending on their model and type of load. At the same time, Eurocopter Tiger is offered as a helicopter attack helicopter. This rotary-wing machine is equipped with an integrated 30-mm automatic cannon on a rotating turret, and can also carry unguided and guided missiles. At the same time, the Tiger helicopter in the version for France has almost no changes in the design, designed to ensure the possibility of combat work as part of the UDC air group. In addition, if we compare the European attack helicopter with the Russian Katran, it loses in the weight data and, as a result, in the mass of the combat load. Thus, under certain conditions, the Russian Ka-52K helicopter surpasses the European Eurocopter Tiger in its combat capabilities. Such comparison results can be considered as an argument in favor of the hypothetical purchase by France of Russian helicopters.



It is worth noting, such a purchase Ka-52K can be useful not only for the naval forces of France. The fact of acquiring Russian helicopters by any large and developed country will undoubtedly attract the attention of many third countries and become a kind of advertisement. As a result of this transaction, the Russian defense industry will receive a kind of recommendation from a European country. Another positive consequences of a commercial nature may be of interest to France. With an appropriate approach to advertising "helicopter" deal, French shipbuilders will be able to promote their UDC on the international market. In this case, the main motive for advertising will be the fact that, together with a modern universal landing craft, a potential buyer will be able to acquire a modern attack helicopter specially designed for work on this ship.

In the future, it is even possible to sign a certain Russian-French treaty, in accordance with which the two countries will work together to supply customers with UDC, initially equipped with the necessary helicopters. Currently, several dozen countries are showing their interest in the subject of universal amphibious ships, and the French shipbuilders are unlikely to miss such a chance to earn money on export supplies. Together with them can earn and Russian helicopter. An additional advantage of the Ka-52K in the international market will be the fact that all types of attack helicopters, originally intended for use on ships, can be literally counted on fingers.

And yet, the proposal for the supply of Ka-52K France will not appear today or tomorrow. Negotiations on the construction of the third and fourth "Mistral" for the Russian fleet will begin only after a few years: after the Russian naval seamen have received and mastered the first two ships. In addition, the proposal of M. Barabanov can easily break about international agreements concluded by France. With all the advantages of the Russian Ka-52K helicopter, its prospects in this regard are ambiguous due to the participation of France in the Eurocopter consortium. In other words, the official Paris can refuse, expressing a desire to support domestic producers and related companies from neighboring countries.

However, Russia should still offer its production helicopters to the French side. Regardless of the response from France, such a proposal would be an additional advertisement of domestic helicopters, which in the future could have the greatest positive consequences for the entire industry.



On the materials of the sites:
http://periscope2.ru/
http://vpk-news.ru/
http://ria.ru/
http://interfax.ru/
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76 comments
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  1. NOMADE
    NOMADE 10 July 2013 07: 23 New
    +3
    The idea is quite interesting, at least against that background. that WE are buying Mistrals from France, then WE can (and, in principle, in parva) "push through" our counter demands. France makes decent money selling us mistrals, so there is a chance that they will agree to purchase at least a few of our helicopters. Theirs and our helicopter are in different "weight categories", so we are talking about direct competition. should not arise. As the author of the article noted, this will be a great advertising move, if you use it correctly (+ luck, of course), then the Kamovites will be very lucky! God grant that it would be so)
    1. chunga-changa
      chunga-changa 10 July 2013 09: 54 New
      13
      Something tells me that the French are much more profitable to sell Mistral with their helicopters than without them. Even if customers ask for the Mistral from the Ka-52, all measures will surely be taken to promote their own, and not competitors.
      1. Retx
        Retx 10 July 2013 10: 12 New
        +2
        With DCNS you can negotiate favorable pricing and contract terms. Nevertheless, the shipbuilding company will act in its own interests, and not in the interests of the manufacturer of helicopters.
        1. chunga-changa
          chunga-changa 10 July 2013 13: 17 New
          +3
          Terms of sale and purchase of such ships are determined at the state level. Eurocopter Tiger is a joint Franco-German aircraft, that is, Germans and French will press at the government level. DCNS simply unscrew Bosko if that.
          1. Retx
            Retx 10 July 2013 14: 36 New
            0
            Push customer? laughing How do you imagine that? I'm seriously interested in hearing.
            1. cdrt
              cdrt 10 July 2013 16: 41 New
              0
              Well ... the customer as such does not exist. There are only people - representatives of this customer. And to press on them - well, promise something, give them something. Everyone heard about kickbacks wink
              1. Retx
                Retx 10 July 2013 17: 32 New
                +2
                Customer representatives do not sign a contract. They can be pawed, but they will not make a decision from this. The levers of pressure on them are only the conditions and the price - everything. Those. if for example, well, I don’t know, say Argentina, say: "I want a Mistral under the Ka-52K", then DCNS will say "Wee, monsieur. Right now," and will present a project with the Ka-52K. If the French government presumably presses, they say, "Only with Eurocopter", then the Argentines will say "Come on, and take your Mistral and Copter, we will buy Juan from Spain with Ka-52K".
                I wanted to say that we can agree with the French on certain conditions with the Ka-52K, i.e. we have the promotion of our own helicopters, and the French have an advantageous position among helicopter carriers with cars from Kamov.
        2. old man54
          old man54 10 July 2013 22: 07 New
          -3
          Quote: RETX
          With DCNS you can negotiate favorable pricing and contract terms.

          it was immediately necessary to agree, even at the conclusion of the transaction, and not after the fight ... drool to swell, dreamy! bully
      2. velikoros-xnumx
        velikoros-xnumx 10 July 2013 11: 14 New
        +3
        The cost of the helicopter carrier and the cost of its ship group, consisting of KA-52 (with an average load of 30 units and a unit cost of about $ 18 million) is still almost half the cost of a helicopter carrier (about 700 million euros or $ 900 million). With a persistent and thoughtful "recommendation" from our top political leadership, it may well grow together, you can try to play on the eternal confrontation between the Gauls and the Germans. In general, the outcome of the negotiations would show how deeply and seriously the French are ready to cooperate in the military sphere.
    2. velikoros-xnumx
      velikoros-xnumx 10 July 2013 11: 01 New
      0
      "Do you like to ride, love to carry sledges"
      rephrasing:
      "If you want to sell Mistrals, and in the future something else from military products, you have to buy something from us besides oil." Moreover, we have something to offer France. Kirill correctly noted that it is not so much a matter of the amount of a particular transaction, but of the potential future after such an advertisement.
      1. cdrt
        cdrt 10 July 2013 16: 45 New
        0
        Well ... Ka-52 so far seems to be as soon as one transaction is exported, so there is so far no advertising. Those. no advertising potential. For example, Mistral along with the AN-64D will be much stronger - it has been tested not by one war. So ... only politics, and on the part of the Russian Federation, and directly to the customer. Yes ... and who can make UDC customers with such a range? Algeria, Thailand, Indonesia, Brazil? - no one else comes to mind.
    3. self-propelled
      self-propelled 11 July 2013 00: 05 New
      0
      Quote: NOMADE
      there is a chance that they will agree to purchase at least a few of our helicopters

      several helicopters - it's like selling several "Dryers" to China - to study and copy some ideas. but the French will not buy in large quantities - they stand up for their own ...
    4. Su24
      Su24 11 July 2013 05: 18 New
      0
      Negotiations on the construction of the third and fourth Mistral for the Russian fleet will begin only a few years later: after the Russian military sailors receive and master the first two ships


      So they seem to have abandoned them already?
  2. kagorta
    kagorta 10 July 2013 07: 29 New
    +4
    It’s too late to drink Borjomi when the kidneys ... the contract for the supply of Mistral has already been signed. These Indians and Jews conclude offset contracts. We will buy it from you, and you will buy it from us. For Serdyukov, this is aerobatics. He just had everything - in the morning money, in the evening chairs ...
    1. NOMADE
      NOMADE 10 July 2013 07: 36 New
      0
      I could be wrong, but as far as I know, Russia signed the purchase only - 2 Mistrals (100%), and the remaining 2 are at the stage of preliminary approval (that is, they managed to cut the "back"). Or is it not so?
      1. kagorta
        kagorta 10 July 2013 08: 09 New
        +3
        An option, as a rule, implies almost identical delivery conditions, as under an agreement (otherwise it is a new agreement), the maximum price for inflation (since it should be spelled out in the option agreement, otherwise it is not an option, but an agreement of intent) and adjust and production schedule to determine.
        1. buzuke
          buzuke 10 July 2013 10: 02 New
          +2
          an option is the right to purchase under certain conditions. it is right, but not duty.
          1. kagorta
            kagorta 10 July 2013 13: 43 New
            +1
            I explained to my comrade that the conditions are staked and cannot be changed. And that the option is right, and so it is clear.
      2. velikoros-xnumx
        velikoros-xnumx 10 July 2013 11: 16 New
        0
        As I understand it that way. In my opinion, there is even an opportunity to refuse the second, limited to one.
    2. Airman
      Airman 10 July 2013 08: 48 New
      +2
      Quote: kagorta
      It’s too late to drink Borjomi when the kidneys ... the contract for the supply of Mistral has already been signed. These Indians and Jews conclude offset contracts. We will buy it from you, and you will buy it from us. For Serdyukov, this is aerobatics. He just had everything - in the morning money, in the evening chairs ...


      A bird in the testicle, and they already want to sell! First, the K-52K must be brought to the series.
      1. sub307
        sub307 10 July 2013 09: 40 New
        +5
        Who are they? The article simply expounds the view of an unknown "expert" and nothing more.
        1. duke
          duke 10 July 2013 10: 09 New
          +4
          I am afraid that you are right, this does not even apply to theoretical reasoning, but to the field of the author’s imagination. We should offer them, well, but what’s next?
        2. cdrt
          cdrt 10 July 2013 16: 47 New
          0
          You can even describe the "expert" and the discussion with words from the Golden Calf: pike vests - "Gandhi went to Dundee. - Yes ... Gandhi's head. - Yes ... Dundee's also a head ..." wink
    3. duke
      duke 10 July 2013 10: 07 New
      0
      quite right, counter purchases had to be linked in advance. The French were incredibly happy when our minister (the minister is literate and sensible) with a merchant scale, ordered Mistral. Their shipyard was saved by this order, so will they buy our helicopters during the crisis? The French always knew how to count money and always supported their manufacturer, unlike some ...
      1. DRUG DRUG
        DRUG DRUG 10 July 2013 11: 42 New
        0
        Quote: duke
        Their shipyard was saved by this order, so will they buy our helicopters during the crisis?

        That is, in order to survive during the crisis, the French will buy our helicopters, because it is beneficial for them to maintain cooperation with us.
  3. shamil
    shamil 10 July 2013 07: 42 New
    +3
    How much criticism was there about concluding a contract for the construction of the Mistrals to Serdyukov?
  4. Ah1ll
    Ah1ll 10 July 2013 08: 11 New
    +3
    ka52 does not need advertising! At least already, after his show at the air show! But it would not be bad if he competed and even showed his superior potential!
    1. aviator_IAS
      aviator_IAS 10 July 2013 10: 21 New
      +2
      The paddlers never belonged to the great friends of Russia. But under Sarkozy and Hollande they generally want to oust the British in place of the main European sixes of the United States. Now they have a competition - who will drive the most. In my opinion, we must beware of the supply of modern weapons to countries that are not even able to conduct their own foreign policy. The incident with the plane of the President of Bolivia showed that the geyropa fulfills any Amer vagaries. Who knows where our equipment will be fighting then? Maybe against the allies of Russia? And on sales markets it is better to look in the direction of Latin America. The benefits will be double. And we benefit, and a nail in the ass of the United States.
    2. FATEMOGAN
      FATEMOGAN 10 July 2013 16: 48 New
      +2
      Quote: Ah1LL
      ka52 does not need advertising! At least already, after his show at the air show!

      Ka 52 is a great car, it’s understandable, but there’s never a lot of advertising for mine, at least in the field of weapons. We must use every opportunity to remind everyone of this beautiful helicopter. But the best advertisement is that Russia itself buys them for its naval forces.
      1. Blackgrifon
        Blackgrifon 10 July 2013 22: 18 New
        +1
        I agree with FATEMOGAN. It’s another matter that the URO complex for the Ka-52 seems to have not been completed yet - but only with the armament complex will this beautiful BM be able to reach its full potential.
  5. Vladimirets
    Vladimirets 10 July 2013 08: 12 New
    11
    - Dad, will the French buy our Ka-52?
    - No, son, this is fantastic.
  6. anip
    anip 10 July 2013 08: 20 New
    +5
    The whole article is written in the spirit of: "if, then maybe", "in the future, they can get it", etc.
    The main question arises: does the French need it?
    1. Ah1ll
      Ah1ll 10 July 2013 08: 32 New
      +2
      And who said that we need the French to buy it! Ours want to show how Katran will be harmoniously suitable for UDC! That's all! And then it will be necessary to decide what will be better for the French, Germans, Italians or Uruguayans!
      1. cdrt
        cdrt 10 July 2013 16: 53 New
        0
        Well ... whoever UDC can build there: Italy, France, USA, WB, South Korea, Holland, Spain, Australia.
        Well, potential customers: Thailand, Indonesia, Brazil. Which one will choose the Ka-52K?
        Potentially, maybe Indonesia and Brazil. Actually, only two potential customers.
      2. anip
        anip 11 July 2013 05: 20 New
        0
        Who said? And this:
        In other words, Russia should offer France to purchase a number of ship-based shock machines of the Ka-52K model. These helicopters will be able to serve on the Mistral project UDCs already existing in the French naval forces, and, as a result, increase their combat capabilities.

        and this:
        It is worth noting that such a purchase of the Ka-52K can be useful not only for the French naval forces. The fact of the acquisition of Russian helicopters by any large and developed state will undoubtedly attract the attention of many third countries and will become a kind of advertisement.

        how to interpret? So it turns out: France will buy, then maybe someone else from the leading countries and then, maybe, countries will more easily become interested.

        And if the
        Quote: Ah1LL
        Ours want to show how Katran will be harmoniously suitable for UDC!

        then put helicopters on your "Mistrals" and advertise.
  7. scientist
    scientist 10 July 2013 08: 37 New
    +1
    Almost all countries of the world with the acquisition of weapons and military technology apply offset policy. It is not clear why this issue was not considered in relation to France.
  8. igor36
    igor36 10 July 2013 08: 38 New
    +9
    The best advertisement will be the bulk purchase of the Ka-52 by the Russian Air Force and Navy (at least 200 pieces), an advanced operation system, raid and feedback from pilots.
    1. Per se.
      Per se. 10 July 2013 13: 55 New
      +1
      As soon as the weapons arrive, it’s interesting to anyone to sell, how many types of weapons, apart from nuclear ones, are our state secret and are intended only for the Russian army? If it is possible to sell electricity to the same Chinese cheaper than their own, metamorphoses of the logic from trade can also be with arms sales. It is not clear only to whom the benefit-benefit of this, our country, the army, taxpayers, creators, designers and workers, or those haulers, scooters, who smartly sell what does not belong to them.
  9. Sergey Medvedev
    Sergey Medvedev 10 July 2013 08: 53 New
    -4
    First you need to sell the Ka-52 to the war zone, to Syria, Assad. And everyone will start to buy it. Even the French, if they will not slow down. wink
    1. valokordin
      valokordin 10 July 2013 09: 11 New
      0
      Quote: Sergei Medvedev
      First you need to sell the Ka-52 to the war zone, to Syria, Assad. And everyone will start to buy it. Even the French, if they will not slow down. wink

      In general, the Italians do not have to deal with them; they hated Russia all history, and only sometimes they were forced to alliance with us. We must reckon with Paris, but never deal with them.
      1. Vadivak
        Vadivak 10 July 2013 09: 50 New
        +3
        Quote: valokordin
        the whole story they hated Russia


        homeland of fascism, pizza and spaghetti
      2. cdrt
        cdrt 10 July 2013 16: 56 New
        +1
        Hmm ... well, is that really never? In WWI, it seemed like they were allies, and the pro-communist forces there were always strong during the Soviet era.
        You can also recall the origin of Tashkent, the cruisers in front of the Second World War, all kinds of torpedoes there ...
        It seems that everything is far from so unambiguous.
      3. Blackgrifon
        Blackgrifon 10 July 2013 22: 24 New
        0
        Quote: valokordin
        Quote: Sergei Medvedev First you need to sell the Ka-52 to the war zone, to Syria, Assad. And everyone will start buying it. Even the French, if they don't slow down. winkIn general, there is no need to deal with Italians, they hated Russia throughout history,


        Did the Italians hate Russia? I know that the British are burning with a rare "love" for us - even under Ivan the Terrible they discussed plans for the colonization of Russia, but I have not heard about the Italians.

        Sorry, but why sell new Syria combat vehicles - they don’t have pilots ready to fly such BMs, they don’t have trained technicians. For Syria, the Mi-35 is optimal - a reliable, proven and completely modern machine.
    2. Ah1ll
      Ah1ll 10 July 2013 09: 43 New
      +3
      do you think just took and sold the Syrian army helicopters? What about training? And the repair? What about weapons?
  10. ed65b
    ed65b 10 July 2013 09: 03 New
    +8
    A beautiful move was suggested by the author. rivet 2 more Mistral arm and sell. only before that you need to roll someone, so to speak to show in the case, then the client will trample. It remains to choose whom. Qatar or Saudis.
    1. PSih2097
      PSih2097 10 July 2013 09: 51 New
      +2
      Quote: ed65b
      It remains to choose whom. Qatar or Saudis.

      establishing constitutional order in Libya ... laughing
    2. old man54
      old man54 10 July 2013 22: 14 New
      0
      Quote: ed65b
      It remains to choose whom. Qatar or Saudis.

      I personally for Qatar! But still, the X-160 is better for this Tu-95 / 55! good laughing
  11. Fin
    Fin 10 July 2013 09: 40 New
    +2
    If suddenly we want 2 more Mistral, then we can .... Why would they (potential enemies) offer our helicopter? We ourselves with a bare ass. We do not have enough of it, let's stamp it for the Russian Air Force. And let's offer the Yankees S-400, 500, and what is beneficial? From a purely commercial side, drums are considering everything.
    Negotiations on the construction of the third and fourth Mistral for the Russian fleet will begin only a few years later: after the Russian military sailors receive and conquer the first two ships.
    It’s about 4-5 years ago. Some plans for a too distant future, and not real. During this time, there will already be ka-54, 56 ... and they have Apache-2,3,4. If suddenly France needs helicopters from us, they will never buy them, well, if only for disassembly and study.
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 10 July 2013 18: 24 New
      +2
      Quote: Fin
      Why would they (potential enemies) offer our helicopter? We ourselves with a bare ass. We do not have enough of it, let's stamp it for the Russian Air Force. And let's offer the Yankees S-400, 500, and what is beneficial?


      You apparently do not know the comrade, but everything is much more serious than you think.

      ... The signing of the contract for the construction of French ships for Russia was preceded by a long struggle for the transfer, together with the hulls of the ships, of some technologies that are of interest to us. The French military has long resisted the transfer of combat control systems built on NATO standards. First of all, it is the SENIT-9 combat information and control system and the SIC-21 command and control system for the connection (fleet). Russia's familiarity with these systems was considered sensitive in terms of the transfer of military technology. However, the French economic interest and the persistence of our representatives in the negotiations still prevailed. The contract was signed after consent to the transfer of technology for three combat control systems ...
      1. old man54
        old man54 10 July 2013 22: 18 New
        +1
        Quote: Karlsonn
        ... The signing of the contract for the construction of French ships for Russia was preceded by a long struggle for the transfer, together with the hulls of the ships, of some technologies that are of interest to us. [b] The French military has long resisted the transfer of combat control systems built on NATO standards. ...

        Komrad, crap is all about the transfer of BIOS and technology! Nah ... and us. and this is distributed for suckers! The order of the Mistrals was a readable political debauchery and a revival of Sarkozy for that kanfuz that he had through mediation in the meetings of August 2008. love
        1. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 11 July 2013 01: 12 New
          0
          Quote: old man54
          Komrad, crap is all about the transfer of BIOS and technology! Nah ... and us.


          absolutely - no!
          Navy comrades are already waiting, rubbing their hands.
          1. old man54
            old man54 11 July 2013 20: 43 New
            0
            Quote: Karlsonn
            absolutely - no!
            Navy comrades are already waiting, rubbing their hands.

            Well, let's see when Sevastopol arrives.
  12. Prapor Afonya
    Prapor Afonya 10 July 2013 09: 43 New
    0
    On the one hand, the sale of weapons is good, the Union also made money on this, and the money will be for new developments, but on the other, it’s silly to sell a new helicopter until they have their army full, and they didn’t come up with a more advanced modification!
    1. DRUG DRUG
      DRUG DRUG 10 July 2013 11: 35 New
      +1
      Quote: Prapor Afonya
      I think it’s stupid to sell a new helicopter until they have filled their army, and they didn’t come up with a more advanced modification!

      While contracts are being concluded and real deliveries of manufactured machines begin, years go by. And our factories at this time continue to produce military equipment for the Russian army. In addition, design and scientific thought is also developing. Already, aircraft concepts are being developed on new physical principles. By the time we reach real contracts for deliveries abroad, the Ka-52, we will already begin to produce more advanced aircraft. Do not forget that a strong breakthrough has already been outlined in the development of the Russian defense industry.
  13. carver
    carver 10 July 2013 10: 17 New
    +2
    Ship version of the Ka-52 has a narrow application and, in principle, will only be on the UDC. We won’t need to equip a large number of such machines with 4 ships, and that’s all, but to further reduce the cost of piece replenishment of our aircraft with this machine, it would be nice if the plant riveted an export version, so that entering the foreign market is a natural and necessary step for the plant he must go to that.
    1. strange and pretty meaningless
      strange and pretty meaningless 10 July 2013 12: 05 New
      +4
      The Ka-52 is produced in the Russian Federation by ONE "plant" - JSC AAK "Progress". He is overwhelmed with GOZ for the most do not indulge. God grant that you arm your army. There is still NO GOZ for "Katran".
      I agree that "it would be nice if the plant riveted" day and night, as in the USSR, when "crocodiles" were made more than one a month. Only the gorboconstruction was SUCCESSFUL - and the buildup takes time.
  14. VohaAhov
    VohaAhov 10 July 2013 10: 20 New
    +8
    The French will not buy our Ka-52s for their Mistrals for one simple reason. Our helicopters do not fit into their hangars in height. On our Russified Mistrals, the height of the hangar was increased.
    1. B_KypTke
      B_KypTke 10 July 2013 11: 45 New
      +1
      I beg your pardon, but this is true if the "Tiger" is used without a bore sight, if there is one, the height will be 5.20m. It turns out that the French did not plan to use helicopters with such a device on the Mistrals?
    2. A-50
      A-50 10 July 2013 12: 18 New
      +1
      Quote: VohaAhov
      The French will not buy our Ka-52s for their Mistrals for one simple reason.
      -
      ... The governor of the French region, Hollande, who got confused, instead of discussing the purchase, took up breeding pederasty. THEY DO NOT BUY IT BECAUSE THEY ARE THE FRENCH !!! Oh, eat - don't get rid of yourself.
    3. smprofi
      smprofi 10 July 2013 13: 53 New
      +1
      Quote: VohaAhov
      On our Russified Mistrals, the height of the hangar was increased.

      that's it!
      and then the "experts" started voicing: we will offer, we will sell, an awesome commercial success ...
      New Vasyuki and nothing more.
      to disperse this "center for analysis of strategies and technologies" to hell, and to shoot the leadership. for misinformation.
    4. walter_rus
      walter_rus 10 July 2013 21: 43 New
      -1
      Our main anti-submarine helicopter Ka-27 does not fit in the Mistral's hangar in height (nor does the multi-purpose Ka-29 at its base). So the development of the ship variant of the Ka-52 was a necessary measure. Considering how long we have been adopting new models of equipment, there are few reasons for optimism. The same Ka-50 was ready already in the 80s, but it is still "exotic" in our Armed Forces.
  15. Petrovich44
    Petrovich44 10 July 2013 11: 20 New
    0
    By the way, since we are talking about helicopters.

    Russian Helicopters, together with the Navy, completed the first stage of testing the Ka-27M helicopter, which is an updated version of the Ka-27 anti-submarine.

    The main feature of the new helicopter is that it is equipped with a new radar station with an active phased antenna array. These stations consist of a large number of small modules that transmit and receive radio signals. Due to the large power consumption, the creation of helicopter station designs was a complex problem that has now been resolved, writes the Voice of Russia portal.

    Ka-27M is capable of detecting small-sized objects at a great distance, in particular periscopes and other retractable devices of submarines. The radar allows tracking dozens of such objects. According to its characteristics, the machine can detect submarines at depths of up to 500 m, use their own weapons (torpedoes and depth charges), or transmit target data to a warship.


    There will be good anti-submarine protection. I do not know, however, its dimensions.
    1. smprofi
      smprofi 10 July 2013 13: 49 New
      +2
      I wrote a magazine, but I picked up the second ...
      Radar, can detect submarines at depths of up to 500 m - what have slippers to do with it? since when did radars begin to search for submarines? or according to the sermons of the patriarch, the laws of physics have changed?
      1. Windbreak
        Windbreak 10 July 2013 17: 55 New
        0
        According to its characteristics machine can detect submarines at depths up to 500 m
        Is it not clear that we are talking about the Ka-27? And there is a GAS, sonar buoys and a magnetometer
  16. DRUG DRUG
    DRUG DRUG 10 July 2013 11: 29 New
    0
    From a strategic point of view, it would be beneficial for the French to purchase the Russian Ka-52K, rather than insist on supporting their helicopter manufacturers. Thus, the French get long-term cooperation, access to the Russian market and to regular customers of Russia, for example, India. It’s more profitable for the French to sell Mistral than helicopters. Combining the French Mistral and Russian Ka-52K is a great idea. For our military-industrial complex - this is development, jobs and constant long-term workload.
  17. strange and pretty meaningless
    strange and pretty meaningless 10 July 2013 11: 35 New
    10
    Abstract of the article:
    Russia should offer France to purchase a number of ship-based shock machines of the Ka-52K model.
    In the future, it is even possible to sign a certain Russian-French treaty, according to which the two countries will jointly supply UDC customers, originally equipped with the necessary helicopters.
    Nevertheless, the proposal for the supply of Ka-52K to France will not appear today or tomorrow.
    With all the advantages of the Russian Ka-52K helicopter, its prospects in this regard are ambiguous ... In other words, official Paris may refuse, expressing a desire to support the domestic manufacturer and related companies from neighboring countries.
    However, Russia should still offer its own production helicopters to the French side.


    G.E.N.I.L.L.N.O.!!!! Author +100500. STRATEGIST. TITANIUM!!! I remembered a well-known anecdotal saying - "... I will not catch up - so at least I will warm myself". That's it, I pass ...
  18. Russ69
    Russ69 10 July 2013 11: 46 New
    +6
    The article looks like the ravings of another mega-expert.
  19. Edward
    Edward 10 July 2013 12: 19 New
    +3
    It is worth noting that such a purchase of the Ka-52K can be useful not only for the French naval forces. The fact of the acquisition of Russian helicopters by any large and developed state will undoubtedly attract the attention of many third countries and become a kind of advertisement ...

    In the future, it is even possible to sign a certain Russian-French treaty, according to which the two countries will jointly supply UDC customers, originally equipped with the necessary helicopters.
    And then Ostap (deputy director of the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (CAST) M. Barabanov) suffered))
    And why actually trifle then ?! one must think wider and deeper. I suggest:
    - To support the production of the Mace, install them on the Mistral and sell them together with the French to everyone in the Middle East and Africa, for example, in Somalia!
  20. PiP
    PiP 10 July 2013 12: 58 New
    +2
    To ensure the possibility of basing the helicopter at UDC, the design of the base Ka-52 had to make some changes. First of all, this is a mechanism for folding the rotor blades and anti-corrosion coating of a number of parts. These and other design innovations will allow the Ka-52K Katran attack helicopter to operate fully as part of the aviation group
    Then modify the BTR with a file to fit in the holds. wink For another two years we will think about how to place everything on the Vladivostok and Sevastopol. As the statements on the UDC go against the statements of Rogozin-
    But what about the statement about the "increase in the number of weapons while maintaining the same size"? What did the deputy prime minister mean?
    Probably, the articles of the load - the ratio of the basic elements of the ship. In general, the set of parameters is as follows:
    - hull and ship mechanisms;
    - constructive protection and booking (if any);
    - power plant (engine and ship power station);
    - armament (the most important parameter, according to D. Rogozin);
    - fuel;
    - team and reserves of provisions;
    - displacement reserve (in this case it can be neglected).

    http://topwar.ru/30545-dmitriy-rogozin-na-voennye-korabli-nuzhno-stavit-kak-mozh
    no-bolshe-oruzhiya.html
    I will not hide, from the very beginning of the great epic "Mistral for Russia" I was against this project. I agree with those who say that we need UDC. But not the Mistrals. This treaty with France is a pitiful attempt to get a "loyal" state towards Russia. Well, of course, then cut down the dough for a lump. laughing
    1. strange and pretty meaningless
      strange and pretty meaningless 10 July 2013 14: 27 New
      0
      good Bazaar zero - ring for the environment. Regarding the digestibility of the masterpiece of French shipbuilders for (for example) Pacific Fleet. Tyryts-tryrim - mana-mana. laughing I memorized for Xia the chased definition - "misral" ... boo-ha-ha
      Ka-52 is candy, but, mlyn ... it's the "soul of a dead tank" - why is it in the sea ... Consider a troll soldier
      1. walter_rus
        walter_rus 10 July 2013 22: 21 New
        +2
        Quote: abyrvalg
        Zero bazaar - ring for the environment. As for the digestibility of the masterpiece of French shipbuilders for (for example) the Pacific Fleet. Tyryts-tryrim - mana-mana. I learned by heart the chased definition - "misral" ... boo-ha-haKa-52 is candy, but, mlyn ... it's "the soul of a dead tank" - why is he in the sea ...

        I completely agree with you, although at first I hardly understood it. hi Indeed, the Ka-52 was absolutely not originally planned as a naval helicopter. There is no room in it for the operator's cabin, and I can hardly imagine where torpedoes and sonar stations will be shoved. (And as a fire support helicopter - there are also remarks. In the "Black Shark" it is difficult for a lone pilot to cope with aerobatics and shooting, even modern avionics won't help much. There are two pilots in the Alligator, but they are sitting side by side, blocking each other's view, and the placement in the same cockpit for a combat helicopter is unfortunate, which was abandoned after the Mi-24A.) Ka-27 for many years polished. Sukhoi's firm made good fighters, but they took up the passenger plane - it didn't matter. As for the western ships, I doubt their survivability. For example, we have fireproof bulkheads with armored doors, and they often just use some kind of "curtains" in this capacity. Recall how the Argentines sank the British destroyer Sheffield with one missile, which pierced the hull above the waterline and, moreover, did not explode. There is an opinion that the purchase of Mistrals will help overcome our lag in technology, but we need to develop our own, and not use others.
    2. A-50
      A-50 10 July 2013 14: 38 New
      +4
      Quote: PiP
      "Increase ... while maintaining the same size"

      Quote: PiP
      go against Rogozin's statements

      wassat along the way Rogozin developed "mirror disease"
      Dmitry Rogozin: "You need to put as many weapons as possible on warships!" lol And in the priest you need TEETH. Eeyore Ussus request
      1. cdrt
        cdrt 10 July 2013 17: 01 New
        0
        This strategist would read the history of the Japanese Navy before WWII or something. I also remember putting more weapons ...
        Here - PR-to - PR-th and do ...
  21. Fox
    Fox 10 July 2013 13: 33 New
    0
    barrel of shit (mistral) -Do not improve a bucket of honey (Ka52).
    1. smprofi
      smprofi 10 July 2013 14: 37 New
      +2
      Quote: Fox
      not improve a bucket of honey (Ka52).

      Duc ... Ka-52K is also not even a bucket of honey, but somewhere about to bloom a flower. Ka-52K exists only as a layout

      1. strange and pretty meaningless
        strange and pretty meaningless 10 July 2013 14: 51 New
        +4
        Ka-52 - a ready-made tough nut, put into production. Adapt it to marine evaporation - Kamov Design Bureau will cope, do not occupy experience. Here you, please, do not crumble the loaf. The Ka-52 in the midst of attack helicopters is a lotus that has grown from the shit of Racean reality. It blooms in the city of Arseniev - be sure. Fortunately, the seed fund is still Soviet. Do not interfere with the decisions of defective managers.
        1. smprofi
          smprofi 10 July 2013 15: 06 New
          -4
          Quote: abyrvalg
          Ka-52 in the environment of attack helicopters is a lotus

          with the collapse of the blades during maneuvering

          however, anti-submariners from Kamov, where you need to leisurely and in a straight line - yes, a wonderful thing
          1. strange and pretty meaningless
            strange and pretty meaningless 10 July 2013 15: 34 New
            +6
            Quote: smprofi
            with the collapse of the blades during maneuvering

            with very INTENSIVE maneuvering - do not slander. At modes in which collapse occurs, a helicopter with a tail rotor AT ALL will not work. I'm a fan of amateur lol
  22. Zabvo
    Zabvo 10 July 2013 14: 51 New
    +1
    So, they laid the UDC, there are no breakdowns, no "childish excuses". Looking at our shipbuilders, except for the feeling that someone is someone else .... al there is nothing. Where to build a frigate longer than AB, while arguing for new materials-technologies, etc. this is the "baby talk of a Losers" ... recourse
  23. Kir
    Kir 10 July 2013 15: 21 New
    -1
    Here the main thing is different, if we recall what was the motive behind the creation of the European RAS / NAR2-Tiger, it is that the amers, in the "load" on their Apaches, imposed their own navigation system, and France and Germany wanted to use their satellite constellation and not be dependent, and the conclusion from this is clearly obvious, do not forget about the avionics of weapons and so on, so it turns out that most likely our glider and propeller-driven part.
  24. xomaNN
    xomaNN 10 July 2013 17: 27 New
    +1
    Manilovshchina pure water! This is only if the French have a minister of defense, and la Serdyukov, ready to buy a foreign one in exchange for a domestic one ......
  25. Revolver
    Revolver 10 July 2013 17: 44 New
    0
    First, you need to put production on stream (well, not a stream, but at least some series and not a demo version in a single version) and demonstrate, well, even if not in real business, but in exercises, that the Ka-52 in the sea version is really a valuable addition to "Mistral" in comparison with alternative options, and not something that somehow adapted to have their own and not import. But then you can already talk about sales.
  26. Ramadan
    Ramadan 10 July 2013 23: 46 New
    0
    Do not forget, the French buy "Unions" from us, and we buy "Mistrals" from them. So everything is fair. Cooperation in the field of high technologies.
  27. PiP
    PiP 11 July 2013 11: 49 New
    0
    On the question of helicopters. My question is not about the ka-52 / k. I mean that the UDC is all the same AMBANDING with over-the-horizon landing, what is planned to be placed on them for the delivery of airborne troops? After all, even to accommodate a "short" helicopter, it needs to be improved, not to mention the Mi-8. Ka-29 with a load of 16-17 people?
  28. cherkas.oe
    cherkas.oe 24 December 2013 14: 49 New
    0
    In principle, there is nothing written about, the author describes the "Wishlist" and he himself gives weighty arguments that will inevitably prevent the voiced "Wishlist", of course you can blackmail the French like: - "We will buy two more of your troughs if you take our" turntables " , but France is generally a member of NATO now, and they have their own corporate and nat. interests, about which the author himself wrote. And, in order to shove our spacecraft with their Mistrals, we need to look for clients ourselves and interest the frogs in this. The question is how?