Military Review

Cartridge .357SIG

Very often you can find the phrase that this or that cartridge is made on the basis of another ammunition. Usually this relationship is perceived too clearly, although patrons do not have so much in common. It is clear that when they say that one cartridge is made on the basis of another, they most often mean that the experience of previous developments was taken into account in the design, but what ammunition really has in common, for example, the size of the sleeve, is not at all a prerequisite. But there are exceptions, which can really be said to be actually made on the basis of other cartridges. One example of such an exception is the .357SIG cartridge, which is based on a .40S & W cartridge case re-crimped for a XNUMXmm bullet, well, almost a XNUMXmm bullet. It is about this ammunition that I will try to tell in this article.

Cartridge .357SIGThis cartridge appeared not so long ago in 1994 thanks to the work of the designers of the SIG-Sauer company with the participation of specialists from the Federal Cartridge company. The main goal was to create an ammunition that would be superior in its characteristics to the popular .40S & W, but at the same time had a reasonable recoil when firing, and was also relatively cheap. In other words, the main idea was to undermine the popularity of the .40S & W, and the designers succeeded. We managed to do this with a minimum of body movements and with a maximum result. It was possible to obtain higher characteristics by simply reducing the caliber of the cartridge when re-pressing the sleeve for a new bullet. Immediately, the first positive point was that the new ammunition became possible to use in pistols, which were originally designed for .40S & W cartridges, simply replacing the barrel, magazine, bolt in them, all this remained in place and did not require replacement. Many manufacturers were quick to add another barrel to their .40 pistols, which really boosted sales. weapons, though not for long. With the active use of .357SIG cartridges in weapons designed for .40S & W ammunition, pistol wear increased significantly, and therefore we can say that a simple barrel change is not a normal adaptation of a weapon to a new ammunition. Despite this, many manufacturers still supplement their pistol kits with only one barrel, although no less number of manufacturers simply created parallel weapon models already fully designed for the new ammunition. Thus, some interchangeability between .40S & W and .357SIG remains, but it cannot be called complete.

In addition, it is worth noting that, thanks to a new form of ammunition, the supply of ammunition during reloading has improved, which in general has increased the reliability of many samples. Due to the fact that the powder charge remained the same, and the mass of the bullet was significantly reduced, the initial speed of the bullet increased, and its trajectory of movement became more flat. Reducing the caliber also led to the fact that the bullet began to have better penetrating power, which allowed the ammunition to maintain its trajectory during the passage of light obstacles, as well as to hit the enemy in the means of individual armor of a low class.

It should also be noted that when firing, this cartridge creates quite a comfortable recoil comparable to .40S & W, however, the kinetic energy of the bullet is comparable to that of the .357 Magnum cartridge. .357SIG cartridges can be loaded with various bullet options, which actually determines the bullet speed. So, a standard cartridge with a bullet weighing 6,12 grams is accelerated in a 100 mm barrel to a speed of 460 meters per second, the "fastest" ammunition is characterized by a bullet speed of 520 meters per second. The kinetic energy of bullets can reach 820 Joules, while the .40 S&W has a maximum of 790 Joules at a speed of 360 meters per second.

Thanks to a well-thought-out advertising campaign, this patron quickly gained popularity, and even government customers could not resist the pressure of advertisers. If you evaluate soberly this ammunition, then it is really good, but it is not good for everyone. So, for the civilian market as a cartridge for self-defense, I still like the .40S & W with an expansive bullet. The ability to hit the enemy in a bulletproof vest, and a low class of protection, is best left to law enforcement officers and the army. Whatever one may say, a heavy slow bullet .40S & W allows you to stop the enemy for sure, regardless of the place of impact. Higher speed for self-defense purposes is also not needed, since short ranges of weapon use simply do not give a clear advantage. But for recreational and sports shooting, this ammunition already has a really tangible advantage over the .40S & W. In general, the .357SIG cannot be called a full replacement for the .40S & W.

The problem with the adaptation of weapons for the new ammunition was partially solved by the craftsmen, who simply replace the return spring of the pistols with a more rigid one. This reduces wear on the parts of the pistols when using the .357SIG, but their life is still less than that of those models that were originally designed for this ammunition. In addition, due to the high pressure in the barrel when fired, the resource of the barrels for this ammunition is not the highest. This problem could be partially solved by barrels with a polygonal rifling, but for some reason they are used with this ammunition very rarely.

Summing up, one cannot but say that the .357SIG cartridge turned out to be very good, but it cannot be a replacement for .40S & W as the manufacturer wants to convince. In some ways, this ammunition is certainly better, but in some moments it is still inferior to .40S & W. The super armor-piercing cartridge for the pistol did not work out of it either, so, after all, this cartridge complements, and does not replace, the already widespread ammunition.

PS Do not look at the fact that the cartridge looks funny, the appearance of the ammunition is not determined by the appearance.
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  1. Tuzik
    Tuzik 10 July 2013 08: 24
    good cartridge for submachine guns.
  2. bazilio
    bazilio 10 July 2013 11: 47
    Interesting topic. Both cartridges are good in their own way. But not everything is so simple when compared with the effectiveness of ammunition, especially pistol / revolver. The only indicator of the effectiveness of the ammunition is the time required to withdraw the target from action (not necessarily lethal, loss of consciousness or paralysis is acceptable). Consequently, an indicator of the effectiveness of a cartridge is the seconds elapsing from the moment the bullet hits the target until the moment the target is "turned off". The most effective way to instantly knock out a target is to hit the head. But the head is the hardest thing to hit. The most realistic option is to hit the torso. This is where the gimmick begins. Bullet speed and muzzle energy are not the only indicators of efficiency, there is also the caliber and shape of the bullet.
    1. scrabler
      10 July 2013 12: 09
      I completely agree, only you can only compare experimentally, one theory will not get off here smile
      1. bazilio
        bazilio 10 July 2013 12: 47
        Quote: scrabler
        only comparisons can only be made experimentally, you won’t get off with one theory

        Cyril, welcome. here, even experimentally, not everything is so simple. There was a theory of knockout Marshall and Senou. These comrades evaluated the effectiveness of pistol cartridges by studying real cases of police shootings with criminals. According to the results, it was concluded that the most effective cartridge was 367 magnum with a bullet PMG, if the memory does not change, that is, ammunition with a sufficient penetration depth. In Europe, another study was conducted - in Strasbourg, Alpine goats were shot (in mass and dimensions and in the internal structure of organs similar to humans). According to the results of the Strasbourg tests, the most effective ammunition was 38 space-based bullets with the Safety slug bullet (a bullet like a container with shots inside) and expansive (hollow point) bullets.
        Z.Y. and goats sorry)))
        1. scrabler
          10 July 2013 13: 04
          Well, I meant more humane methods, but this will also be clearly obtained smile In general, you still need to add such variables as adrenaline, alcohol, individual pain threshold ... the desire to live here, as it were, also plays an important role ... what
          1. bazilio
            bazilio 10 July 2013 15: 30
            I don’t remember exactly, but it seems that American analysts have calculated that the effectiveness of the stopping action of one shot of a well-guided tactical nuclear warhead is approximately 117%))))))
            1. Mister X
              Mister X 10 July 2013 22: 10
              for the civilian market as a patron for
              I still like self-defense more .40S & W with an expansive bullet.
              Author Karasik Kirill

              According to the unwritten laws of war, captured soldiers convicted of using expansive bullets,
              often shot on the spot.

              True, the ban on the use of such bullets applies only to regular armies.
              Cartridges with bullets like JSP HP and JHP are often used by police, hunters and for self-defense
              due to a small ricochet and a large stopping effect when shooting at an unprotected target.
              Some countries are in “free sale”.

              Quote: bazilio
              stopping efficiency

              The stopping effect is pronounced in blunt bullets.
              They penetrate relatively shallow, but create a powerful shock wave that causes
              volumetric concussion and contusion of adjacent organs and tissues.

              So .357 SIG will be more effective than cartridges for PM and PSM,
              and the recoil is less than that of Luger / Steam cartridges.

              Although from my own experience I know that often one kind of weapon is enough for self-defense.
              Well sobering clang cocked shutter.
              And if a brawl is already taking place - a warning shot in the air and a couple of strong expressions on Dahl.

              Found information on several .357 SIG cartridge manufacturers
              Federal Premium JHP (Bullet Weight 125 Gran)
              Federal Premium JHP (150 Gran)
              Remington JHP (125 Gran)
              Speer Gold Dot JHP (125 Gran)
              Triton Quik-Shok (115 Gran)
              Winchester Ranger T (125 Gran)

              .357 SIG maximum CIP cartridge dimensions.

              .357 SIG Remington Golden Saber Ammo Gel Test

              1. scrabler
                10 July 2013 22: 18
                Well, I'm not a captured soldier, besides:
                for the civilian market as a patron for
                self defense
                I still like the .40S & W with the expansive bullet more.
                Author Karasik Kirill
                1. Mister X
                  Mister X 11 July 2013 15: 20
                  Maybe your stores have everything you want.
                  In our backwoods "wide choice":
                  Russian, Ukrainian and Czech cartridges for several common calibres.
                  And the 357 SIG cartridges and the Tres Haute Vitesse bullets in our stores were never seen.

                  I have a desire to buy a house, but I do not have the opportunity.
                  I have the opportunity to buy a goat, but I have no desire.
                  So let's drink so that our desires always coincide with our capabilities!
              2. bazilio
                bazilio 11 July 2013 08: 39
                Quote: Mister X
                The stopping effect is pronounced in blunt bullets.
                They penetrate relatively shallow, but create a powerful shock wave that causes
                volumetric concussion and contusion of adjacent organs and tissues.

                That is yes. Cavitation wave damage to internal organs is effective only for supersonic bullets, of which 357 Zig is. But the best result on the cavitation wave was shown by the French bullet THW
  3. self-propelled
    self-propelled 10 July 2013 22: 57
    One example of such an exception is the .357SIG cartridge, which is based on the .40S & W sleeve, over-compressed under a nine-millimeter bullet

    Weaponry history knows quite a few examples of "re-compressed" ammunition:
    - The .338 Winchester Magnum cartridge (.338 Win Mag) was developed in 1958 for the Winchester M70 Alaska bolt rifle based on the .458 Winchester Magnum cartridge sleeve, crimped to .338 caliber
  4. self-propelled
    self-propelled 10 July 2013 23: 17
    I will continue my comment (something does not hang request )
    - The 6.5 Grendel cartridge (6.5x38) is a modified version of the PPC family of cartridges, which are based on a slightly modified sleeve of the Soviet cartridge 7.62x39 mm with compressed dulce to the required caliber
    - The 6.8 mm Remington SPC ammunition was based on the basis of the .30 Remington cartridge, in whose case the cone was lowered, shortened and pereobzhali dulce under the new caliber
    6.8 mm Remington SPC

    - The cartridge .330 Mars is very similar to .360 Mars. He, like the 9 mm cartridge, was created by crimping the cartridge case .450 Mars Long and giving it a bottle shape to accommodate a smaller caliber bullet (by the way the dead cartridge was developed back in 1899)
    .330 Mars

    so, "there's nothing new under the moon." the whole point is how much the fighting qualities of the "re-compressed" ammunition are superior to the progenitor. and are these advantages worth the funds that will be spent on transferring production to a new ammunition and the release of "converted" (or creating a new) weapon for this ammunition ... request
  5. kilvlad
    kilvlad 4 December 2013 03: 09
    Fashionable ammunition, but I find it harsh, however, many leading brands produce models for it. My subjective opinion is that, as mentioned above for this munition, you need a forged barrel with polygonal cutting (as in Glock), although the latter will kick significantly in view of its low weight, and the Browning system is not the best option for magnum ammunition. He would have created an independent model from the beginning for him, but with thoughtful locking (gas exhaust or roller lock Well, something like that))) I personally prefer 9x21.
  6. kilvlad
    kilvlad 4 December 2013 03: 14
    It happens)))).
  7. Vilhelm
    Vilhelm 21 June 2017 15: 19
    Great cartridge! I have, among others, 2 pistols in this caliber. For entertainment purposes, the cartridge is just a gift, plows louder than everyone else and has a pleasant, enjoyable, tangible impact. For sports shooting cartridge is not very good. This is due to the high return and, as a result, to an increase in the time the pistol returns to the sighting line and firing repeated shots.
    Fortunately, I did not have to shoot this cartridge at the recipients, but I think that the cartridge 9 * 19 for self-defense or everyday police needs has an advantage. With a good and accurate hit in the body of the attacker, the latter will be just as effectively disabled by the 9 * 19 cartridge. When using the .357SIG cartridge in extreme conditions, there will be worse accuracy and speed of shooting, which will reduce the likelihood of hitting targets, especially if the shooter is not adequately prepared.
    Hence the conclusion - the 357SIG caliber pistol is perfect:
    1. For recreational shooting;
    2. For employees of special forces with good training;
    3. For killers.
    In other cases, the choice of a different caliber is preferred.
  8. asr55
    asr55 24 November 2018 22: 19
    By stopping action, a comparison of these ammunition at the level of boltology. The basic version of the .357SIG ammunition is the option with an expansive bullet weighing 125 grains (8.1 grams). Get an expansive bullet with kinetic energy from 700 to 890 j. not the best option.