Military Review

"Proton" ruined the rush

118

Experts are considering several versions of the July 2 crash of the Proton-M launch vehicle. "One of the versions is that there was an early launch of the rocket, for some unknown reason, as a result of which an accident could have happened," the RIA told. "News"a source in the space industry close to the investigation.


According to him, the control system took the early launch as an emergency situation and began to lead the missile to a safe distance from the launch complex. There are other versions, but this, as the agency interlocutor noted, is prevalent.

In order to establish the exact cause, the experts need to complete the decoding of the telemetric information. "Perhaps the decoding will take some more time - maybe a day, maybe two, and maybe more. While the specialists are working," said the source.

Among the possible causes of the crash are also called engine problems and a failure in the control system. “Most likely, some problems either in the control system or in the first-stage propulsion system. And the fact that some of the“ experts ”refer to the reason for the accelerating unit that exploded during the fall of the rocket was caused by that accident. which developed from the first step, ”said Alexander Zheleznyakov, member of the Russian Academy of Cosmonautics, Kommersant-FM.

The Proton-M launch vehicle, which in the morning of 2 July was supposed to launch three Glonass-M navigation spacecraft into orbit, changed the trajectory at the tenth second of flight, caught fire, fell into the territory of the Baikonur cosmodrome and exploded. Hundreds of tons of extremely toxic fuel, heptyl, spilled on the site of the fall.

On the fact of the accident was a criminal case under Art. 216 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation ("Violation of safety rules in the conduct of mining, construction or other works"), the investigation is handled by the prosecutor's office of the Baikonur complex.
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  1. Atrix
    Atrix 5 July 2013 13: 14 New
    10
    You need to land for such a thing this is not an isolated case, space vehicles often began to lose something, but they cost not a penny and are not built in a couple of weeks.
    1. experienced
      experienced 5 July 2013 13: 17 New
      14
      There is no rush, but gan ... s worked for grandmas
      1. nycsson
        nycsson 5 July 2013 13: 21 New
        +8
        Roscosmos is not responsible for the timing and completion of tasks - Accounts Chamber

        http://spb.itar-tass.com/c9/796327.html

        MOSCOW, 4 July. / ITAR-TASS /. The Audit Chamber of the Russian Federation accused Roscosmos of inefficient management of space activities.
        A report published today on the results of a planned audit states that the industry "has actually developed a system of collective irresponsibility for the formation and implementation of state policy", which resulted in a multiple increase in costs, R&D terms and the formation of spacecraft constellations with an extremely low level of their operational and technical characteristics and growing accidents. "
        According to the Accounts Chamber, the Federal Space Agency has actually moved away from the implementation of the Federal Space Program, outsourcing its functions to the outsourcing of FSUE TsENKI and FSUE TsNIImash.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. mole
          mole 5 July 2013 16: 16 New
          +6
          The statement of facts is a great thing, the prosecution is the same (for journalists and lawyers - work), and the result !? Nobody was seriously punished. No one indemnified. Anto, unfortunately, in the areas of our lives. Especially in matters relating to the independence of our country! By will, perforce sabotage you will begin to suspect, corruption is still fertile ground.
          1. kris
            kris 5 July 2013 19: 59 New
            +6
            Quote: Mole
            The statement of facts is a great thing, the prosecution is the same (for journalists and lawyers - work), and the result !? Nobody was seriously punished. No one indemnified. Anto, unfortunately, in the areas of our lives. Especially in matters relating to the independence of our country! By will, perforce sabotage you will begin to suspect, corruption is still fertile ground.

            13 years Putin fights corruption!
            and she grows and grows!
            1. svp67
              svp67 5 July 2013 23: 57 New
              +1
              Quote: kris
              13 years Putin fights corruption!
              and she grows and grows!

              So the Romanovs fought with her for 300 years, fought, but did not fight. bully
              Here the Communists seem to have more or less succeeded (under Stalin), and then everything returned again ...
            2. Semen Semyonitch
              Semen Semyonitch 6 July 2013 05: 57 New
              +1
              ,, The level of corruption in Russia has reached critical levels. This is evidenced by at least the country's position in international ratings of investment attractiveness. A similar situation launched the anti-corruption mechanism in Singapore at one time. Will this happen in Russia?

              In Singapore, authoritarian methods work largely due to the sincere desire of the political leadership to fight corruption. It leads an emphasized modest lifestyle. Each person convicted of corrupt acts is punished, despite the size of bank accounts and status in society. Otherwise, the fight against corruption is only an appearance. Is the current Russian government capable of this? "
              Andrey Sirotin
      2. fisherman
        fisherman 5 July 2013 13: 41 New
        +2
        worked for grandmas


        many work for grandmas:

        "And the fact that some" experts "refer to the fact that the acceleration block, which exploded during the fall of the rocket, was the cause of the accident that developed from the first stage," "
      3. Siberian German
        Siberian German 5 July 2013 15: 37 New
        +3
        and what does the grandmother do-it’s ridiculous to work for because it wasn’t a matter that I did in a different way:
    2. SASCHAmIXEEW
      SASCHAmIXEEW 5 July 2013 14: 49 New
      +3
      Missiles always fell ... but not so often! Where is the FSB (KGB)?
      1. s1н7т
        s1н7т 6 July 2013 00: 18 New
        +1
        Quote: SASCHAmIXEEW
        Where is the FSB (KGB)?

        Shopipets! Do not read newspapers and do not go to the polls ?! They have been in power for 13 years. laughing
    3. honest jew
      honest jew 5 July 2013 14: 49 New
      +8
      Proton ruined corruption and theft !!!!
      1. Vovka levka
        Vovka levka 5 July 2013 18: 56 New
        +2
        Quote: honest Jew
        Proton ruined corruption and theft !!!!

        That is ordinary reality.
      2. Revolver
        Revolver 5 July 2013 22: 07 New
        0
        Quote: honest Jew
        Proton ruined corruption and theft !!!!

        Rather, the usual sloppiness and the hope of "maybe." Well, the rush too. Nedelin’s catastrophe seems to have taught nothing. Thank God at least this time without sacrifices.
      3. APASUS
        APASUS 5 July 2013 23: 35 New
        +1
        Quote: honest Jew
        Proton ruined corruption and theft !!!!

        And the printout!
        I read how our launched with the French Zenit-3SL from the sea-launch platform. The rocket naturally ....
        not flown!
        The platform has not yet stabilized, and our key is on the "start". The French almost hoarse to shout that the launch is impossible, but on the drum!
    4. Ustian
      Ustian 5 July 2013 19: 56 New
      0
      Quote: Atrix
      but they cost not a penny and are not built in a couple of weeks.

      Moreover, these "not a penny" taxpayers, not some investors. It is clear that everything is insured, but this insurance in orbit instead of satellites on xp is not needed.
    5. s1н7т
      s1н7т 6 July 2013 00: 15 New
      +1
      We have long been "not an isolated case" everywhere, wherever you spit. Since they put him - BNU / GDP in the presidency. laughing laughing laughing
  2. bomg.77
    bomg.77 5 July 2013 13: 14 New
    +1
    The main reason is diversion.
    1. Chuck-norris
      Chuck-norris 5 July 2013 14: 14 New
      -1
      For alarmists and prosalipolymers - http://www.livejournal.com/misc/get_domain_session.bml?return=http%3A%2F%2Farskv
      v.livejournal.com%2F394424.html&sign=fba6f0f8a080f2b5d2d1492bafae9a3e&t=13730192
      70
      1. Chuck-norris
        Chuck-norris 5 July 2013 16: 28 New
        0
        Sorry, that link is crooked, I give a new one - http://arskvv.livejournal.com/394424.html
    2. nemec55
      nemec55 5 July 2013 16: 31 New
      0
      The main reason is diversion.

      Yeah, the aksakal of Kyblandy Baldykov hurt or g.y.r.r.o.p.y.y.sy.A thought did not come that their boobies are rampant
      1. sir.jonn
        sir.jonn 5 July 2013 17: 59 New
        -1
        Quote: nemec55
        Yeah, the aksakal of Kyblandy Baldykov hurt or g.y.r.r.o.p.y.y.sy.A thought did not come that their boobies are rampant

        It's all about boobies and this is obvious. Random people should not be allowed into Roscosmos and everything connected with it even on an excursion, and people who have no idea of ​​the word responsibility are working here in critical places.
        Directed work in this direction by the European "EKA" is also possible.
        1. Goldmitro
          Goldmitro 5 July 2013 22: 55 New
          +1
          <<< sir.jonn: It's all about boobies and this is obvious. Random people should not be allowed into Roscosmos and everything connected with it even on an excursion, and people who have no idea of ​​the word responsibility are working here in critical places.
          Directed work in this direction by the European "EKA" is also possible. >>>
          Remember Mr. Ashurbeyli of their sunny Azerbaijan, who did not stay there long after graduating from Baku University and arrived in Moscow in the early 90s, where he made a strikingly short space career from the director of one of the Moscow markets to the head of Almaz GSKB -Antey "along the way becoming a doctor of science! In Russia, of course, there were no leaders worthy of this place! And, it seems, such effective managers - optimizers, specialists in cash flow management, entrenched in our defense industry, Roscosmos Aviaprom, etc. NOT SMALL! It is clear that anything can be expected from such "doctrines of sciences" and the like, and what kind of "achievements" are expected of us with such specialists is not difficult to imagine. And cadres decide EVERYTHING and we need to carefully look - WHAT FOR FRAMES we have, who decide!
      2. bomg.77
        bomg.77 6 July 2013 10: 08 New
        0
        Quote: nemec55
        Yeah, the aksakal of Kyblandy Baldykov hurt or g.y.r.r.o.p.y.y.sy.A thought did not come that their boobies are rampant

        But what if they didn’t purposefully harm their sabotage? When it happens twice with the same companions, it’s easy for the corrupt officials to nod, look wider!
    3. atalef
      atalef 5 July 2013 19: 08 New
      -4
      Quote: bomg.77
      The main reason is diversion.

      There are many versions
      1. Ustian
        Ustian 5 July 2013 20: 06 New
        +5
        Yes, you just see it at the very root. Only the MAIN version is silent ..
        1. omsbon
          omsbon 5 July 2013 22: 03 New
          +2
          Quote: Ustian
          .Only the MAIN version is silent ..

          The main one is the BASIC version.
      2. bomg.77
        bomg.77 6 July 2013 10: 10 New
        0
        Quote: atalef
        There are many versions

        Then they would start with the Jews. laughing
        1. Ustian
          Ustian 10 July 2013 09: 36 New
          0
          Quote: bomg.77
          Then they would start with the Jews. laughing

          Shh-ss is Home! sad
  3. nycsson
    nycsson 5 July 2013 13: 15 New
    12
    Yesterday I watched the news. The Accounts Chamber is shocked by the inspection of Roscosmos. They say that they actually withdrew from fulfilling their duties through intermediary firms. In short, the loot is washed, and only they do not care about these missiles. am
    1. KazaK Bo
      KazaK Bo 5 July 2013 15: 31 New
      +1
      Quote: nycsson
      In short, the loot is washed, and only they do not care about these missiles.

      And not only ... the leaders are fighting for the sympathy of female subordinates ... with bottles of champagne ... it’s insulting that they’re using forbidden methods ... with a bottle on the head ... and then they are laid down in the hospital ... That's how it gets Whatever the boss on the head, and you demand from him what he thinks after that ...
      The struggle for the attention of women is masculine ... in a hussarish way ... but why pound a bottle on the head!
      1. not good
        not good 5 July 2013 21: 21 New
        0
        And if dead, one competitor wassat less
      2. drom.m
        drom.m 7 July 2013 02: 05 New
        0
        Hussars, usually the head, are demolished with a saber.
  4. alexng
    alexng 5 July 2013 13: 18 New
    +2
    I think without donkey ears it could not do here!
    Although there may be rubbing traces of the appropriation of the dough.
    1. Alexander_
      Alexander_ 5 July 2013 20: 59 New
      +2
      For mashing the dough could fly higher and fall from solar activity.
      1. Semen Semyonitch
        Semen Semyonitch 6 July 2013 06: 13 New
        0
        Quote: Alexander_
        For mashing the dough could fly higher and fall from solar activity.

        Yes, what are you? Higher is how much ,, extra "money would have to be invested there. Everything is calculated, just at a safe distance from the launch pad ...
  5. ia-ai00
    ia-ai00 5 July 2013 13: 18 New
    +7
    And given that accidents happen precisely with the satellites of the Glonass-M system, is this not a diversion?
  6. Vtel
    Vtel 5 July 2013 13: 19 New
    +5
    According to him, the control system took the early launch as an emergency situation and began to lead the missile to a safe distance from the launch complex. There are other versions, but this, as the agency interlocutor noted, is prevalent.

    But what about the black bars in the exhaust, and here is an early start.
    1. fisherman
      fisherman 5 July 2013 13: 46 New
      0
      the control system took the early start as an emergency


      possibly traction problems
      1. Airman
        Airman 5 July 2013 14: 18 New
        +1
        Quote: fisherman
        the control system took the early start as an emergency


        possibly traction problems


        Until the rocket develops a certain thrust, it will not leave the launch pad. This is an attempt to whitewash yourself.
        1. fisherman
          fisherman 5 July 2013 15: 03 New
          0
          Until the rocket develops a certain thrust, it will not leave the launch pad.


          Uninterrupted operation of engines is necessary not only for separation, the separation itself can be considered normal (I am sure that it will turn out that way)

          This is an attempt to whitewash yourself.


          I don’t understand who exactly is the attempt here?
    2. The comment was deleted.
  7. Black Colonel
    Black Colonel 5 July 2013 13: 24 New
    +2
    "At the crash site, hundreds of tons of extremely toxic fuel spilled - heptyl."
    Is there really so much? And how much fuel then (maybe kerosene, let the specialists correct it) still weigh? belay
    1. InkGrey
      InkGrey 5 July 2013 13: 59 New
      +4
      Exactly what heptyl. Well, amyl (an oxidizing agent) too - a red cloud - this is just amyl. And about the weight - look at the starting mass of the rocket - and so almost all of the mass is fuel.
      Regarding toxicity - amyl decomposes quickly enough - as a result, we get nitrogen fertilizer, with heptyl a little more difficult, but it is not so dangerous if it dissipates. Without environmental disasters, in general.
      1. kingston
        kingston 6 July 2013 02: 41 New
        +1
        1 gram of heptyl kills 1 person. About it is about 600 tons. Russia owes and must pay for the environmental consequences of this disaster.
        1. zennon
          zennon 6 July 2013 10: 53 New
          0
          1 gram of heptyl kills 1 person. About it is about 600 tons.

          It kills 30 milliliters, not grams. Heptyl there is about 270 tons. At the time of the disaster, almost everything burned out. Heptyl decays quite quickly. The Proton fell on the cosmodrome and Russia doesn’t owe anything to anyone. How do all these vassals love to make fun of !
          1. kingston
            kingston 6 July 2013 13: 01 New
            -1
            Quote: zennon
            vassals


            Can you explain to someone who is a vassal?

            And who is rattling?
    2. zennon
      zennon 5 July 2013 15: 06 New
      +2
      Is there really so much? And how much fuel then (maybe kerosene, let the specialists correct it) still weigh?

      It is difficult to say. The amount of fuel and oxidizer directly depends on the mass of the payload, as well as the height of the orbit. The roughly total mass of asymmetric dimethylhydrazine and nitrogen tetraoxide in Proton-M is about 600 tons. The cost of the product (without load) is -2,5 billion rubles ...
  8. TRAFFIC
    TRAFFIC 5 July 2013 13: 27 New
    +3
    Reply to another source
    At the same time, he called the unrealistic possibility that the Proton-M could start ahead of time and therefore the engines of the first stage of the rocket did not gain the necessary thrust.
    "The fact that the rocket allegedly started ahead of time is complete nonsense. If it does not gain traction, it does not come off the launch pad. By the way, the thrust-load ratio of Proton-M engines is not very large, the rocket slowly breaks off the table. It must be understood that the lift contact is a purely mechanical disconnection. If everything is normal with the rocket, then the command is given to switch the engine to the main mode, and if there is no transition, then no lift occurs, "the source explained.


    РИА Новости http://ria.ru/science/20130704/947573057.html#ixzz2YA5KPz6p
    1. fisherman
      fisherman 5 July 2013 13: 48 New
      +2
      it turns out that the gap is normal, and then problems with traction
    2. Trofimov174
      Trofimov174 5 July 2013 15: 04 New
      +4
      The live broadcast of the Vesti 24 launch of this Proton is on the Internet, the host said that, they say, the launch will begin soon and began to dictate the technical characteristics of the rocket, before it had time to start, the rocket took off. Usually, airtime is always distributed with an accuracy of a second, and exactly the time of the launch, the channel organizers and the presenter should have known, indirectly, this can confirm the fact of an early launch of the rocket.
      1. drom.m
        drom.m 6 July 2013 04: 18 New
        0
        But, not up to four tenths of a second. Chur indirectly.
  9. Black Colonel
    Black Colonel 5 July 2013 13: 29 New
    +5
    03.07.2013 20:43 http://www.m24.ru/articles/20791?from=smi2
    Resurs-P, the Russian photographic satellite, has transmitted the first US test images to Earth, according to the website of the Federal Space Agency.

    Black and white photographs show cities in the United States - Kansas City and Los Angeles. The images obtained meet the specified requirements and confirm the high tactical and technical characteristics of the spacecraft, engineers say.

    “The launch of the Resource-P Earth remote sensing spacecraft was successfully carried out on June 25, 2013 from the Baikonur Cosmodrome by the Soyuz-2.1b launch vehicle. Over the past time, an inspection of the spacecraft's onboard systems has been completed,” the report said.

    As specified, the information obtained can be used to develop international cooperation of Russia in the framework of global Earth observation, and to solve other urgent problems.
    Especially touches "as part of a global Earth observation" wink
    1. zennon
      zennon 5 July 2013 15: 21 New
      +2
      Especially touches "in the framework of the global observation of the Earth"

      So what? Amers have long been ordering pictures of their surface in Russia. Our processing is considered the best. Yes, and the price of $ 7 to $ 20 per 1 sq. Km is quite acceptable. Moreover, there is talk about renting our sensing systems. Yes, here's a curiosity:
      http://kosmos.of.by/news/2373-ssha-gotovy-zakazat-v-rossii-dzz-sputnik.html
  10. Severok
    Severok 5 July 2013 13: 30 New
    +7
    The main diversion is disorder and 100% irresponsibility of those who are "responsible" for the case.
    1. Strashila
      Strashila 5 July 2013 14: 00 New
      +6
      The main sabotage is not carelessness, but nepotism with clannishness and mutual responsibility of the leaders of the space industry ... well, naturally, greed for loot, for this, rocket and space production in the Urals and Siberia was virtually destroyed. They all pulled it to Moscow and screwed up.
  11. WIN969
    WIN969 5 July 2013 13: 47 New
    +8
    In the USSR, all the guilty parties would be shot for this, and they would have been rightly done. People have no fear, which means there is no focus on work.
    1. zennon
      zennon 5 July 2013 15: 54 New
      +4
      In the USSR, all the guilty parties would be shot for this, and they would have been rightly done.

      We don’t have to make fun of it! We removed the chips, but we also thought about people. When, on October 24, 1960, about 16 people died in Baikonur during the explosion of the R-150 rocket, including Chief Marshal of Artillery Mitrofan Nedelin, Brezhnev was appointed the head of the commission. he told people, “we will not punish anyone!” He personally walked around the wards, reassured people, asked what was needed. Vasily Budnik (Zama Yangelya) had a wife who was ill, was in Moscow. Brezhnev ordered him to put a long-distance telephone in the ward! This is between By the way, the year 1960! In general, the uncle was good. In March of the 82nd short about to death at the Toshkent aircraft factory, a tribune collapsed on him. He broke Klyuchitsa. The first thing he said was "he’s to blame. Do not punish anyone." So ...
      1. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 5 July 2013 19: 36 New
        -2
        But nothing that Nedelin took full responsibility, contrary to the opinion of 149 people burned down, and many of those whom the gods had mercy? And taking on EVERYTHING, Nedelin set the desktop opposite the engine nozzle and began to work there? Therefore, it burned down, a reptile ... Itself merged - his business. But, not being a specialist thanks to the courage that hit the ball, 149 people were killed?
        If the Chief Designer did this, it would be courage justified by work, calculations, and faith in your mind and the mind of your people. And so it was the courage of a fool. And to punish someone for this ... The space industry would simply die after such a punishment. Brezhnev was anyone, but not a fool then ...
        Yes, more. “Oh dead or good, or nothing but the truth” - that’s exactly what the full quote sounds like. 149 people are heroes. But I would bury Nedelin under the fence like a lousy dog, but there was nothing to bury ...
        1. zennon
          zennon 5 July 2013 20: 02 New
          0
          But nothing that Nedelin took full responsibility, contrary to the opinion of 149 people who were burned

          And where did you see that I was justifying Mitrofan Nedelin? In general, did I talk about him?
          The space industry would simply die after such a punishment. Brezhnev was anyone, but not a fool then ...

          So I am about the same! Read the post.
    2. Cheloveck
      Cheloveck 5 July 2013 16: 16 New
      +6
      Quote: WIN969
      In the USSR, all the guilty parties would be shot for this, and they would have been rightly done. People have no fear, which means there is no focus on work.

      Taki, you are wrong!
      In the USSR, they worked not for fear, but for conscience.
      Just with conscience is now a big problem.
      1. zennon
        zennon 5 July 2013 16: 18 New
        +1
        Taki, you are wrong!

        Yes!
    3. dustycat
      dustycat 5 July 2013 19: 06 New
      +4
      In the USSR, the starting calculation either did everything so that the launch went smoothly, or the engines did not start at all.
      But most likely they would just sit on the product all night replacing suspicious nodes and blocks, but the start would go smoothly.
      Once, before 3 o’clock in the morning, he mounted the coupling on a 10 kV cable, in which the leakage increased.
      The start then went well.
      1. atalef
        atalef 5 July 2013 19: 13 New
        0
        Quote: dustycat
        Once, before 3 o’clock in the morning, he mounted the coupling on a 10 kV cable, in which the leakage increased.
        The start then went well.

        Which KIKe served? What years? ETR-2? (if a power engineer).
        Buran left the 2nd time, Phobos 1 and 2 lost, the starts were on fire and the abnormality was the sea. Unsuccessful launches were not reported at all. In my 2 years there have been dozens of cases, and this despite the fact that this was not a mess, and the videoconferencing system was considered to be elite. Like all GUKOS. so that just.
      2. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 5 July 2013 19: 47 New
        0
        The video clearly shows - a transparent, straw-orange-blue transparent flame of standard main engines. And the beginning of the accident is a short yellow-red tail on one side. It's an orientation engine, right?
        1. drom.m
          drom.m 6 July 2013 04: 42 New
          0
          Being a young man at VDNKh, I moved the nozzles of the “Vostok” in handles. I’m not a specialist in rocketry, I want to ask, is not every engine stabilized in space? Well, can a gyro give orientation to a star? Please help me figure it out.
  12. Selevc
    Selevc 5 July 2013 13: 53 New
    +8
    Sadly, I must admit that Russia has systemic problems with the space industry ... Previously, the military did all this, but now it’s not at all clear whether Roskosmos or intermediary firms? It is unclear who controls the entire chain of manufacture and testing of individual missile assemblies? There used to be a military acceptance - the structure is very, very strict and serious, but now who is responsible for this? Most likely, as always, all together and no one individually ...

    I don’t know — if I were Medvedev’s place, I would have already fired the entire leadership of Roskosmos long ago as people who did not correspond to their positions — and would have forced them to return the entire salary that they had “earned” for the entire period of their leadership !!! And the management involved in this project also with the confiscation of property - let them fight for a simple salary 3.14 gifts !!!
    1. Cat
      Cat 5 July 2013 13: 55 New
      +8
      Quote: Selevc
      I would have on Medvedev's place would have long fired the entire leadership of Roskosmos as people inappropriate to their posts - and would have forced them to return the entire salary that they "type earned" for the period of their leadership !!! And the management involved in this project also with the confiscation of property - let them fight for a simple salary 3.14 gifts !!!

      and I would be in Medvedev's place - I would have already fired all of Medvedev long ago (well, hereinafter)
      You look, and the rockets would stop falling ... =)))
      1. Selevc
        Selevc 5 July 2013 14: 14 New
        +6
        Problems with the Cosmos - this is a natural result of the rule of managers such as Medvedev - people who for some reason got the idea that one dough can solve everything in the world of the problem !!!
      2. Karabin
        Karabin 5 July 2013 15: 31 New
        +4
        Quote: Cat
        and if I were Medvedev, I would have fired all of Medvedev long ago

        I would not vote for Putin in your place, respectively, and "all of Medvedev (and further on in the text)" would no longer need to fire.
        Quote: Cat
        You look, and the rockets would stop falling ... =)))
        1. Cat
          Cat 5 July 2013 15: 40 New
          0
          Quote: Karabin
          I would not vote for Putin in your place, respectively, and "all of Medvedev (and further on in the text)" would no longer need to fire.

          I don’t vote for Putin, because I am not a subject of the Russian Federation. Anyway, I went to the polls once in my life - during military service, and only because they drove everyone in the ranks, I couldn’t get any further =))
        2. dustycat
          dustycat 5 July 2013 19: 14 New
          0
          But what, more than 20% of the population came to Putin’s election ?!
    2. dustycat
      dustycat 5 July 2013 19: 09 New
      +1
      So there and so everyone who thought something and knew how to do fired or squeezed out.
      That is the whole problem.
      Reporting a lot, but knowing what should be done there.

      As Korolev once said, everyone knows how to make rockets, and only enthusiasts can make them fly where they need to.

      So, there are just no enthusiasts left - they only interfere with the budget cut.
    3. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 5 July 2013 19: 51 New
      +2
      Somehow I became an accidental witness to the conversation ... well, you just can’t hide anywhere from other people in the reserved seat. The graduating engineers are cosmonauts, Soviet. Looks because something else flies. But treating them like manure. Do not blowers why stand on ceremony with them ...
  13. Strashila
    Strashila 5 July 2013 13: 53 New
    +7
    An early start ... nonsense. A rocket either starts or does not start, there is no third way. If a rocket comes off the table, then all conditions, traction and operability, parameters of all systems are met. That the experts want to pretend ... did not notice problems with the delivery fuel into the engine ... the start video was obviously shot from different angles ... that would make a shadow on the fence.
    1. fisherman
      fisherman 5 July 2013 15: 06 New
      0
      problems with fuel supply to the engine ..


      probably
  14. Suhov
    Suhov 5 July 2013 13: 58 New
    16
    Disgrace!
    fool
    Russia, again failed to put Glonass satellites into orbit.
    Can't repeat what was considered a routine in Soviet times when rockets were made "like sausages" and launched into space.
    fool
    And yet:
    We now have the world's most powerful constellation of orbiting navigation satellites.
    at the bottom of the pacific
    .
    wassat
    We expect the result, because after the previous identical accident,
    instead of starting to pay to those who:
    - hands and head creates space technology,
    - launches it into space,
    - exploits
    decided to insure spacecraft launches.
    fool
    Personally, I don’t understand how the piece of paper on which "insurance" is written can:
    - improve the quality of components,
    - increase the responsibility of performers,
    - initiate a desire among our youth, including young specialists, to go to work in the space industry?
    what
    Disgrace!
    fool
    Madhouse .....
    1. Cheloveck
      Cheloveck 5 July 2013 16: 51 New
      +1
      Quote: Sukhov
      Personally, I don’t understand how the piece of paper on which “insurance” is written can improve the quality of components, increase the responsibility of performers, initiate a desire for our youth, including young specialists, to go to work in the space industry?

      And who said that the task is to "improve the quality of components, increase the responsibility of performers, initiate a desire among our youth ..."?
      1. dustycat
        dustycat 5 July 2013 19: 18 New
        +2
        With a budget cut, the main insurance.
        And the desire for the rocket to take off and do what is expected does not have a physical sense.
  15. R.
    R. LIS. 5 July 2013 14: 11 New
    13
    ONLY RUSSIANS CAN JAIN FISH IN THE OCEAN ROCKETS
    1. Airman
      Airman 5 July 2013 14: 24 New
      +9
      Quote: R.LIS.
      ONLY RUSSIANS CAN JAIN FISH IN THE OCEAN ROCKETS


      It’s still necessary to fly to the ocean, and we muffle gophers.
      1. nemec55
        nemec55 5 July 2013 15: 50 New
        +1
        Nope there is such a beast Kazakh kangaroo, jerboa called smile
        1. dustycat
          dustycat 5 July 2013 19: 19 New
          +2
          Near the starts, jerboas do not live for a long time. Only gophers.
  16. rinat1955
    rinat1955 5 July 2013 14: 21 New
    +1
    And why aren’t you considering the sabotage operation of a potential enemy? I served in Baikonur urgent in the 1970s of that century .. I served as a parcharch ... I read books of chipboard. One of them described recommendations for sniper shooting at a rocket taking off (from a mine) ... they say you need to shoot there and there, to be at a distance such and such.
    And here is an open hefty fool, the place is known, the time is known ... it can be cut from a barrel from 5 km away. You don’t even need to send a staff member. He took a local moron, charged with money ... and voila!
    How do you like the hypothesis ?!
    1. Selevc
      Selevc 5 July 2013 14: 39 New
      +1
      During the launch of Proton, there should not be a single living soul within a radius of 20 km except for personnel directly carrying out the launch ...
      1. Alexandr Vl
        Alexandr Vl 5 July 2013 18: 22 New
        +1
        Well, you bent 20 km. I served in the 70s on this platform. Refueling. An hour before the start, well, maybe a little more, all military and civilians are expelled from warm beds to the evacuation zone. Who's lucky, by car, the soldiers on foot. A couple of kilometers from the barracks. In one direction or another, depending on which launch site. It is approximately 4 km from the launch pad. Well, combat crew, i.e. refuellers, ASK (emergency rescue team) electricians, in general, all soldiers and combat calculation officers. They left the site 15 minutes before the start and waited for the launch on the road between the launch site and the residential town. About one kilometer. A little further than the guest stands.
        1. dustycat
          dustycat 5 July 2013 19: 26 New
          0
          And not from all sites. Only on the highway and in the wind.
          DMB 88-90
    2. KazaK Bo
      KazaK Bo 5 July 2013 15: 36 New
      -1
      Quote: rinat1955
      How do you like the hypothesis ?!

      ... that is ... that is ... And most importantly, that you published it during the day ... will be forgotten by night and there will be no nightmares!
    3. dustycat
      dustycat 5 July 2013 19: 23 New
      0
      It’s easier to pay so that a “souvenir” is left inside.
      Or that the acceptance certificate is signed without looking - all the same, for only 3 minutes of work, maximum ...
  17. ia-ai00
    ia-ai00 5 July 2013 14: 22 New
    +4
    R. LIS. RU
    ONLY RUSSIANS CAN JAIN FISH IN THE OCEAN ROCKETS

    Humor, but black, except for a bitter smirk from the realization that this is so, does not cause anything.
    1. MG42
      MG42 6 July 2013 03: 26 New
      +2
      Quote: ia-ai00
      Humor, but black, except for a bitter smirk from the realization that this is so, does not cause anything.

      Given the title of the article << say rush good in two cases >>> for catching fleas and indigestion. >> bully
  18. nemec55
    nemec55 5 July 2013 14: 44 New
    +1
    There is nothing normal for every tricky opera. Iosif Visarionych may just need to wait (he’s not yet grown up, but we can go to a kindergarten somewhere)
  19. nemec55
    nemec55 5 July 2013 14: 44 New
    -1
    There is nothing normal for every tricky opera. Iosif Visarionych may just need to wait (he’s not yet grown up, but we can go to a kindergarten somewhere)
  20. rinat1955
    rinat1955 5 July 2013 14: 45 New
    +4
    I put on a cloak ... lay down ... well, how will you determine it there?
    And it’s unlikely that there has changed in 30 years. The staff will be evacuated at the start of the kilometer by 3-5 (pay attention to the clip, from what distance the shooting was carried out) and only in one direction .. what do you think, they check all these kilometers with dogs? I assure you - no. And the starting team is sitting in the bunker. Well, maybe right now the cameras are. But they are unlikely to cover everything. In the end, what kind of ensign can not go into evacuation, and even shoot (though this is from the area of ​​delirium) But anyway, it’s good to work in counterintelligence in this direction.
    1. Selevc
      Selevc 5 July 2013 16: 13 New
      +1
      Well, so far, at the start, it seems like only one rocket crashed - and the rest were already either in flight or with the output devices - so I think that all the same it’s not a matter of sabotage, but of the banal indifference of the leadership ...
    2. Ustian
      Ustian 5 July 2013 19: 49 New
      0
      Quote: rinat1955
      not bad counterintelligence work in this direction.
      The thought is sound!
      “A defective part may fall into the missile due to the lack of effective quality control by either the manufacturer or during the direct assembly of the missile. But in this case, given the national importance of adopting a new missile for the Russian strategic nuclear forces, , and another will be regarded as a fact of sabotage, "a source in the Russian special services told RIA Novosti.

      At the same time, the source did not exclude that defective parts or assemblies could get into the technological chain of rocket production as a result of criminal negligence, which can also be regarded as sabotage. (Http://censor.net.ua/news/95542/rossiyiskie_spetsslujby_posle_neudachn
      ogo_zapuska_quotbulavyquot_zagovorili_o_diversii)
  21. Kovrovsky
    Kovrovsky 5 July 2013 14: 53 New
    +4
    Something turns out to be a lot of “shoals”: ​​they will pour more fuel, then they will start earlier!
    1. dustycat
      dustycat 5 July 2013 19: 34 New
      +1
      Do not tell anyone else about excess fuel (oxidizer) and early start-up.
      Aliens will laugh.
      A proton can be deduced to the calculated one even if one sidewall is generally “unsuitable”. If only she had pulled.
      Brown “feathers” can often be seen with successful proton launches.
  22. ia-ai00
    ia-ai00 5 July 2013 15: 17 New
    -1
    After reading:
    Quote: Selevc
    if I were Medvedev, I would have fired the entire leadership of Roskosmos long ago ...

    it was precisely this thought that came to my mind:
    Cat SU
    in the place of Medvedev - I would have already fired all of Medvedev long ago

    with the only difference that "in the place of Putin ..." Once upon a time it was necessary to drive him from the post of head of the government, from his activity there was only harm to the country and irritation.
    1. dustycat
      dustycat 5 July 2013 19: 38 New
      +2
      If everything depended on one or the other temporarily performing ...
      The problem is that since 1960, posts in management have been engaged not in the ability to work, but in the ability to report and by birth.
  23. knn54
    knn54 5 July 2013 15: 24 New
    +4
    -Accounting Chamber revealed a complete collapse of the space industry

    The audit results of the Audit Chamber of the enterprises of the Russian space industry are disappointing: it was established that lobbying and nepotism reign in the industry, the distribution of funds is completely opaque, and instead of developing and introducing advanced technologies, there is targeted support for morally and physically obsolete production facilities. All this led to the fact that in many respects over the past few years, the development of the rocket and space program has been frankly frustrated ...
    http://www.amic.ru/news/225168
    PS MB of the AUD failed-1st stage began to separate almost immediately?
    1. dustycat
      dustycat 5 July 2013 19: 40 New
      0
      Or because the prosecutor general’s office does not see the corpus delicti in the materials sent by the accounting chamber.
  24. VadimSt
    VadimSt 5 July 2013 15: 37 New
    +2
    The industry as a whole is destroying embezzlement, fraud, irresponsibility, impunity, who have sat in the staffing list of "grandfather of perestroika", a brain drain and Russian AVOS!
    1. dustycat
      dustycat 5 July 2013 19: 42 New
      +1
      Well, damn it.
      Until 1990, missiles successfully took off on Avos and suddenly it stopped working.
  25. dimon-media
    dimon-media 5 July 2013 16: 03 New
    +4
    Grandmas allocated from the budget to Roscosmos for the construction of satellites were plundered, and models were shoved into the launch vehicle. Roscosmos itself is organizing a sabotage with Proton, the rocket is falling, everything is covered. Get the hell out. What are we? But we are nothing, the rocket fell, our satellites are lost. It’s not our fault, she’s ... mean.
    Z.Y. ... and try to prove the opposite? Everything is noticed. We can only guess. Only 1937 will be able to change the situation.
  26. Zahar Masoch
    Zahar Masoch 5 July 2013 16: 16 New
    +3
    After the fall and explosion, the rocket will be assembled in pieces, laid out in the hangar all the pieces in their places, each piece will be numbered and examined under a microscope. What the fuck dummies?
    1. Alexandr Vl
      Alexandr Vl 5 July 2013 19: 18 New
      +1
      Well, I don’t know .. At this site, about 50 meters from the launch pad or from 0 (from zero more correctly) there is a mountain of debris. There was a similar accident a few years before my service. And the bulk of the debris is lying around the perimeter of the site, about a kilometer from it. We went there for pieces of duralumin. Excellent quality duralumin. all kinds of crafts were made from it. Easy to process, polish well and not oxidize. Very durable. Probably, airplanes also make of it. So they will collect ... lay out ... And there is no suitable hangar there.
    2. dustycat
      dustycat 5 July 2013 19: 46 New
      0
      Have you ever been within a spike at the start?
      There are so many things in the ground trampled by tractors ...
      And between the starts of a similar trash plowed in bulk by bulldozers.
      These are not fragments of an airplane to collect - a maximum of two to four hectares and no self-destruction charges.
  27. IRBIS
    IRBIS 5 July 2013 16: 22 New
    +4
    "Proton ruined the rush"
    Early start ...
    How many children were born after the rush and the "early" start. But the rocket is the opposite ... Maybe still try to do everything according to science, according to instructions and established schemes. In the last rocket, more fuel was poured ... Is that Zaporozhets or a spaceship? This is a simple sloppiness, moreover, complete and general. Lack of sensible performers and competent managers.
    1. Selevc
      Selevc 5 July 2013 17: 20 New
      +1
      Quote: IRBIS

      How many children were born after the rush and the "early" start.

      Yes, this is not exactly that Cosmos !!! :)))
  28. Alex Nick
    Alex Nick 5 July 2013 16: 31 New
    0
    First you need to figure it out, and then hang labels on the perpetrators. This is not a kids club for fans of fairy tales about the "white bull"
  29. rinat1955
    rinat1955 5 July 2013 16: 38 New
    +6
    What pieces ... when there the brick melts, and you say about the pieces ... everything will burn! This is not a plane for you! The rocket exploded almost at the start, burns everything around, stone buildings are burning ... and you're talking about thin-walled metal!

    And on the topic of sloppiness ... in our time, the watch guard guarding the start and cutting a couple of meters of cable (weaved watch straps) received 8 years in prison, and he was lucky. Investigators said if they had a rocket at the start, they would have shot him.

    And then the fuel was not enough .. and their progression will be deprived.
    So far, after unsuccessful starts, leaders will remain in place. And the guilty will receive real terms (and not fines) - nothing will change.
    Well, to the heap .. but what kind of salary, but who works (by age)? and who taught him? Someone who did not trust a couple of twists, he did not trust a couple of twirls? Is there a certification system for jobs?
    When I served, the launches took place at intervals of 1-2 times a week ... and for 2 years, there was only 1 emergency - the 2nd stage did not work. And then right through time.
  30. individual
    individual 5 July 2013 16: 52 New
    +1
    Hmm ... Haste - 2.5 billion rubles and the prestige of the country.
  31. Bombowoz
    Bombowoz 5 July 2013 17: 06 New
    +1
    Some kind of sabotage. The second time, both with GLONAS satellites. Someone got our navigation across the road. Not otherwise mole wound up.
  32. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 5 July 2013 17: 54 New
    0
    GLONASS will cost us dearly .. Strange is very strange .. To see not a bad system once constantly undermining .. We will run again .. And what to do ??? There is no way out and we’ll start fully grouping whatever it would cost us .. And we will calculate all moles sooner or later ..
    1. drom.m
      drom.m 6 July 2013 04: 10 New
      0
      Right! Neither give nor take!
    2. drom.m
      drom.m 6 July 2013 04: 10 New
      0
      Right! Neither give nor take!
  33. selbrat
    selbrat 5 July 2013 18: 14 New
    +1
    [quote = nycsson] "I watched the news yesterday. The Accounts Chamber is shocked by the Roskosmos inspection. They say that they actually withdrew from the intermediaries to perform their duties through the companies. In short, they launder the loot, and they don’t care about these missiles."
    I think the king, as usual, is not up to date. Now the guys will correct me with the minuses ...
    1. dustycat
      dustycat 5 July 2013 19: 50 New
      0
      “The Prosecutor General’s Office of the Russian Federation did not reveal any elements of crime.”
  34. Alexandr Vl
    Alexandr Vl 5 July 2013 18: 57 New
    +4
    It is annoying and painful to see such disasters. By the way, the photo in the article is not the platform from which the launch was made. Start was from the 81st. I served there. The video shows very clearly that one engine went out. The rocket turned to the camera "sore" place. It can be seen that unworked amyl (an oxidizing agent) is whipping from one engine. So the fuel supply (heptyl) to the engine was stopped. Reaction (combustion) Starts spontaneously when amyl and heptyl combine. Well, why did this happen? From mechanics there is a pipeline, a pump, a shut-off valve. A pipeline rupture is unlikely. Pump stop too. by gravity a certain amount of fuel would still go into the engine. And there wasn’t such a dense exhaust of amyl. Closing shut-off valve? Maybe. Such valves are in all pipelines, and are used to instantly turn off the engines. Just close the pipe. They work on the principle of a check valve. Or a management system. I hope that the experts will figure it out, they will take us profane in the face of the picket fence.))) They say you take to judge the causes of the accident, not knowing anything about rocketry. I am already ashamed that I so boldly undertook to talk about the reasons. I'm not an expert.
    1. family
      family tree 6 July 2013 00: 24 New
      +1
      Quote: Alexandr Vl
      I'm not an expert.

      The most interesting thing is that the pros begin with this phrase. wink
      1. Yarosvet
        Yarosvet 6 July 2013 00: 38 New
        0
        Quote: perepilka
        The most interesting thing is that the pros begin with this phrase. wink
  35. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 5 July 2013 19: 14 New
    +1
    Quote: Alexandr Vl
    It is annoying and painful to see such disasters. By the way, the photo in the article is not the platform from which the launch was made. Start was from the 81st. I served there. The video shows very clearly that one engine went out. The rocket turned to the camera "sore" place. It can be seen that unworked amyl (an oxidizing agent) is whipping from one engine. So the fuel supply (heptyl) to the engine was stopped. Reaction (combustion) Starts spontaneously when amyl and heptyl combine. Well, why did this happen? From mechanics there is a pipeline, a pump, a shut-off valve. A pipeline rupture is unlikely. Pump stop too. by gravity a certain amount of fuel would still go into the engine. And there wasn’t such a dense exhaust of amyl. Closing shut-off valve? Maybe. Such valves are in all pipelines, and are used to instantly turn off the engines. Just close the pipe. They work on the principle of a check valve. Or a management system. I hope that the experts will figure it out, they will take us profane in the face of the picket fence.))) They say you take to judge the causes of the accident, not knowing anything about rocketry. I am already ashamed that I so boldly undertook to talk about the reasons. I'm not an expert.

    Normally wrote .. !! It's sad all this .. but not tragic ..
    1. dustycat
      dustycat 5 July 2013 20: 15 New
      +2
      "..but not tragic .." for "effective managers."
    2. drom.m
      drom.m 6 July 2013 03: 44 New
      0
      But it’s interesting if one of the engines went out on a plane, it’s not a disaster, the remaining ones will be stretched. Does the proton really have no power in case of failure of one? Obviously, this makes the design heavier, but they fall like pears. Or maybe it's insurance?
  36. Ustian
    Ustian 5 July 2013 19: 40 New
    +4
    Quote: seasoned
    maybe a day, maybe two, and maybe more. Until specialists work

    If the specialists WORKED, this accident, turning into a regularity, WAS NOT !!!
  37. dustycat
    dustycat 5 July 2013 20: 11 New
    +1
    1. "DO NOT DIGIT!" - every engineer hears this phrase from the mouth of his boss "effective manager" when he says what and how should be done.
    2. "How can this be explained?" - the same engineer hears this phrase when the question arises about the conformity of the position of "effective manager".
    3. Everything else does not matter.

    Question.
    What is superfluous in this sequence to get the result?
    1. ia-ai00
      ia-ai00 5 July 2013 21: 11 New
      0
      Extra - MANAGER!
  38. sergey158-29
    sergey158-29 5 July 2013 20: 37 New
    +1
    I CORRECT: "Proton" was destroyed by a Flash in the sun, and all claims to green men from Mars! lol
  39. 1goose3
    1goose3 5 July 2013 20: 45 New
    +1
    Quote: Bombowoz
    Some kind of sabotage. The second time, both with GLONAS satellites. Someone got our navigation across the road. Not otherwise mole wound up.

    Like it or not, but the conclusion is obvious. sad
  40. Yarosvet
    Yarosvet 5 July 2013 21: 08 New
    +2
    _________________________________
    1. Yarosvet
      Yarosvet 5 July 2013 21: 11 New
      0
      ______________________________
  41. valokordin
    valokordin 5 July 2013 22: 23 New
    +1
    It seems that the fall of Proton is not accidental, a surefire way to destroy the traces of theft in the space industry.
  42. ALEKS419
    ALEKS419 5 July 2013 22: 48 New
    +1
    Quote: valokordin
    It seems that the fall of Proton is not accidental, a surefire way to destroy the traces of theft in the space industry.
    .
    I fully support you. The board devotees for Glanas were sung in the garages of Tolyatti ..
  43. darksoul
    darksoul 5 July 2013 22: 52 New
    0
    With an ugly frequency, they began to fall ... the question is, who is always to blame and what to do? they will look for sixes again or all the same it's time to do something, you need to understand that this is the country's prestige
  44. s1н7т
    s1н7т 6 July 2013 00: 46 New
    +1
    Prosrashi Union is ridiculous to cry for missiles - they are not "Russian," but still Soviet (Sample 1965). The patriots of the new country and its "power vertical", at the head, will never guess with anyone until they have created ANYTHING at all !!! Well, maybe, except for their states, but here I can only guess laughing
    1. go
      go 6 July 2013 02: 41 New
      0
      I can immediately say what is the reason, there are two of them:

      1) The collapse of engineering education and technical personnel in Russia: good engineers who have not yet left can soon be counted on the fingers. But a lot of all sorts of managers and marketers. When the oil and gas money runs out, all these "specialists" will go to harvest firewood in the forest.
      Guilty: Gorbachev, Yeltsin, Medvedev, Putin.
      Solution: investing in education, from school to graduate school. Creation of production and development, and, accordingly, jobs within the country. At the same time, ridiculous projects like Skolkovo with .net programmers, some kind of funny designers and American management, are a dead poultice.

      2) Thieves are everywhere, including in Roscosmos.
      Guilty: the same plus bureaucrats and parasites in the field.
      Solution: Drive out all the parasites so that at least a penny reaches the engineers who are still there. See point 1.
    2. drom.m
      drom.m 6 July 2013 03: 21 New
      0
      I absolutely agree, but for many, it’s not a rocket from the start, but the launch pad, after such truth, it leaves your feet!
  45. drom.m
    drom.m 6 July 2013 03: 04 New
    -1
    “Something, they often started shooting at our Seryozha, so they can kill” Vitka Antibiotic, Gangster Petersburg.
  46. Russ69
    Russ69 6 July 2013 04: 07 New
    0
    The mattresses, too, are not without problems.

    WASHINGTON, Jul 6 - RIA News. Another test of the US missile defense system, during which it was planned to intercept a long-range ballistic missile, failed, the Pentagon reports.
    A training target was fired from the Marshall Islands, and an interceptor missile was launched from a military base in California. It was not possible to shoot down the target.
    "The participants in the program will conduct an investigation to determine the cause of the failure," said the US defense department.
    1. Semen Semyonitch
      Semen Semyonitch 6 July 2013 06: 19 New
      0
      Quote: Russ69
      The mattresses, too, are not without problems.

      WASHINGTON, Jul 6 - RIA News. Another test of the US missile defense system, during which it was planned to intercept a long-range ballistic missile, failed, the Pentagon reports.
      A training target was fired from the Marshall Islands, and an interceptor missile was launched from a military base in California. It was not possible to shoot down the target.
      "The participants in the program will conduct an investigation to determine the cause of the failure," said the US defense department.

      They didn’t compare it. They are testing a new weapon, and a miss is a normal occurrence. And we have a long-established technology, and the scale of damage is a launch vehicle with three satellites against an interceptor ... We can’t compare ...
      1. drom.m
        drom.m 7 July 2013 02: 01 New
        0
        said well, such a feeling, whether it be Sharapova, lost in tennis.
  47. shpuntik
    shpuntik 6 July 2013 04: 35 New
    +1
    "Hurry" bitch: to Kolyma !!!
  48. Semen Semyonitch
    Semen Semyonitch 6 July 2013 06: 07 New
    +1
    Interestingly? The satellites continue to fall for a long time, sawn up "GLONASS ... The accident will write everything off, like the fires in the weapons depots ... There will be no more guilty. An infinitely long orange negative
  49. The comment was deleted.