Military Review

Shoigu instructed to find the best programmers to work for the army

93
Shoigu instructed to find the best programmers to work for the army

Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu instructed to find students of one of St. Petersburg universities, for the fifth time became the champions of the world in programming, in order, if possible, to use their knowledge in the interests of the Armed Forces.


“Today I heard on television that students from one of St. Petersburg universities for the fifth time became world champions in programming. They need to find. We need to work with these guys somehow, because we really need them, ”the minister said on Thursday during a meeting with university rectors and the public.

According to Shoigu, the military department is ready to create all the necessary conditions for the fruitful work of such talents in the scientific companies being created.
“There are a lot of spheres of application for servicemen of such companies. This, in particular, is the work on the creation of mobile electrical installations on alternative power sources, which are the sun and wind, such installations are necessary for mining units, as well as installations for the extraction and purification of water, "Shoigu quoted RIA"News».

In addition, according to him, the military is interested in communications, robotics and "everything innovative that is possible for use in the Armed Forces."

Shoigu recalled that last week he took part in a large show of drones. “And, of course, in this part we are also interested in the country's leading universities, civil aviation educational institutions where we would really, really like to develop the subject of unmanned aerial vehicles. And with the end result. That is, this is not scientific work for the sake of entertainment, but this is what should be of benefit, ”said the head of the Ministry of Defense.

He noted that the project to create scientific companies in the Russian army found support from the supreme commander-in-chief of the country. “We received support, and, actually, we start from tomorrow,” concluded Shoigu.
Originator:
http://www.vz.ru/news/2013/7/4/639936.html
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  1. StrateG
    StrateG 4 July 2013 18: 14
    35
    Oh, I smell, when I graduate from college, I’ll immediately find a job in the army) I’m studying as a programmer yes
    1. experienced
      experienced 4 July 2013 18: 19
      +8
      Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu instructed to find students of one of St. Petersburg universities, for the fifth time became the champions of the world in programming, in order, if possible, to use their knowledge in the interests of the Armed Forces.

      Everything is like in that anecdote about an elephant: "He will eat it, but who will give it to him?"
      Dean of the Faculty of Information Technology and Programming of St. Petersburg National Research University ITMO Vladimir Parfenov saidthat student-programmers who win at the Olympiads will prefer working in foreign companies to working for the Ministry of Defense.

      He believes that the The Ministry of Defense, most likely, will not be able to offer young professionals the conditions that Yandex and Google offer, the Russian News Service reports.

      «Those programmers who perform in the final are elite shots and there are very few of these shots in the world. For them, there is a struggle between all foreign and Russian companies. They have a lot of suggestions about their future work, because a person who solves such olympiad problems, he has a productivity ten times higher than an ordinary programmer", - he said.
      1. Canep
        Canep 4 July 2013 18: 23
        +6
        I can imagine how happy these students will be with such news and the opening prospect. soldier
        1. Quiet
          Quiet 4 July 2013 20: 30
          +5
          instructed to search for students of one of the St. Petersburg universities, who for the fifth time became world programming champions,

          Look for them from amers and redeem from a silicone valley ....

          Your predecessor, the stool's young, patriotic "brains" profiled !!! fool repeat
          1. S-200
            S-200 5 July 2013 06: 12
            +1
            "Everything was stolen before US!"
            hi
            .... long before the stool
          2. Basileus
            Basileus 5 July 2013 07: 26
            +1
            Unfortunately, you just need to read the comments on Habré, we do not seem to have young patriotic IT specialists. There, 80% of the contingent is not something they don’t want to join the army — they are going to dump it over the hill at the first opportunity.
            1. Quiet
              Quiet 7 July 2013 19: 16
              +1
              going to knock over a hill.

              Let them knock down. They think they'll be in chocolate. In fact, over the hill, they will suck everything out of them and throw it out into the street like Russian scum. "Where was born there and came in handy" - there is such a proverb !!!!!
              1. Basileus
                Basileus 8 July 2013 15: 15
                0
                Well, in general, IT companies are quite cosmopolitan and will accept a good specialist. So folk wisdom is hardly worth counting on.
      2. satellite
        satellite 4 July 2013 18: 25
        10
        Yes, it seems to me that the GDP will make an offer which will be difficult to refuse))
        1. Canep
          Canep 4 July 2013 18: 32
          -4
          And I’m talking about the same, and I won’t be surprised if these programmers clean their shocks using numerical methods, and under the supervision of a sergeant with the formation of 9 classes.
          1. Gregazov
            Gregazov 4 July 2013 18: 58
            +1
            With the practical use of the sign of the integral for the extraction of objects dropped into the toilet.
          2. Vlad-32
            Vlad-32 4 July 2013 20: 40
            +5
            This simply cannot happen. It was not for this that such a decision was made.
            1. Canep
              Canep 4 July 2013 20: 45
              +1
              Have you served in the army? They make a fairy tale come true in one night, there is nothing impossible, and that which cannot be, happens regularly.
              1. Homo
                Homo 5 July 2013 01: 40
                +5
                Actually, you were not the only one who served in the army (if you did). I went to the army with a specialty - a mechanic for the repair of computers (1979). I was never in a dress (neither in the kitchen, nor in a company, nor on guard), but went about my business - servicing and repairing equipment. So there is no need to "roll a barrel" on our army!
                1. Canep
                  Canep 5 July 2013 04: 25
                  +1
                  I served in the management of a motorized rifle division, I was constantly in subordinate units. In such greenhouse conditions as you used, there were units, clerks (who drew the cards) at the headquarters, drove colonels, and the general (and even not all), eight-coders, there were also 2 mechanic mechanics at the garage. In the parts of phylonyls about the same contingent. In other branches of the army, I think the same. Or do you think that for these programmers Shoigu will cancel the military charter?
            2. cdrt
              cdrt 4 July 2013 20: 58
              0
              Who served in the army does not laugh at the circus ...
              1. S-200
                S-200 5 July 2013 05: 59
                +1
                ... he doesn’t go to the circus! laughing
        2. cdrt
          cdrt 4 July 2013 20: 57
          +2
          You need to close the borders for this :-)
      3. Gregazov
        Gregazov 4 July 2013 18: 55
        +7
        Nobody has canceled military service yet. The health requirements of a recruit in a scientific company, I hope, will differ from the Airborne Forces and the Air Force. So everyone has a chance to serve.
      4. S-200
        S-200 4 July 2013 19: 07
        0
        Quote: seasoned
        According to Shoigu, the military department is ready to create all the necessary conditions for the fruitful work of such talents in the scientific companies being created.

        If you learn how to pay in the United States for programs for defense, etc., then why no ? Little "skolkovo", why are there any other "scientific companies" ? There must be a "breeding ground" for the growth of scientific personnel in the form of laboratories (scientific schools) at defense research institutes. Science will decay on bare army soil ...
        It is bad when an authoritative but incompetent minister is at the head of a department, who begins to suck his "innovations" out of his finger, trying to impress ignorant ordinary people with them ...
        1. Canep
          Canep 4 July 2013 19: 19
          +5
          I think it would be better if everyone goes about their business, i.e. soldiers to serve, commanders to command, programmers to write programs, etc. If you need the services of programmers in the army, let them hire as civilian employees.
          1. Danafxnumx
            Danafxnumx 5 July 2013 10: 23
            0
            how, then, to maintain a regime of secrecy?
        2. the polar
          the polar 4 July 2013 19: 58
          +5
          Quote: S-200

          It is bad when an authoritative but incompetent minister is at the head of a department, who begins to suck his "innovations" out of his finger, trying to impress ignorant ordinary people with them ...

          Minister Salabon, himself recently served in the army. He probably did not have time to report that in the system of the RF Ministry of Defense there is a network of military institutes engaged in military-applied scientific research. Or maybe they, like the Russian Academy of Sciences, were decided to be dispersed and replaced by "scientific companies" under the command of "uchon captains".
        3. cdrt
          cdrt 4 July 2013 21: 01
          0
          For such money is not the main thing.
          And the main thing is precisely what the invincible and legendary can never provide: freedom to be some kind of weirdo, in the work schedule, respectful attitude, etc.
        4. nerd.su
          nerd.su 5 July 2013 01: 29
          0
          Quote: S-200
          If you learn how to pay in the United States for programs for defense, etc., then why not?

          Quote: S-200
          There should be a "breeding ground" for the growth of scientific personnel in the form of laboratories (scientific schools) at defense research institutes. Science will decay on bare army soil ...

          Why is she going to die? In the army, everything is so arranged that there is no time to lose weight. And if the soldiers appear at this time, then sports events quickly make the military team blossom again. Whether it’s motorized rifle, a song and dance ensemble or now - scientific companies laughing

          Quote: S-200
          It is bad when an authoritative but incompetent minister is at the head of a department, who begins to suck his "innovations" out of his finger, trying to impress ignorant ordinary people with them ...

          It’s bad when the head of the military department is an absolutely civilian person ...
          1. S-200
            S-200 5 July 2013 06: 18
            -1
            Quote: bot.su
            It’s bad when the head of the military department is an absolutely civilian person ...

            Do you mean Shoigu?
            because having "graduated" from the Academy of Civil Protection of the EMERCOM of Russia
            being already his Minister to military carry IMPOSSIBLE !
            ..in spite of shoulder straps
            1. nerd.su
              nerd.su 5 July 2013 08: 38
              +1
              Quote: S-200
              Do you mean Shoigu?

              Rather, I mean the western trend, which is also taking root in our creeping way.

              Quote: S-200
              because having "graduated" from the Academy of Civil Protection of the EMERCOM of Russia
              being already a Minister, it is IMPOSSIBLE to attribute it to the military!

              But it is impossible to attribute it to absolutely civilians!

              In general, I believe that it is godly god, and Caesar’s Caesar’s. The Minister of Defense must be a military, the Ministry of Internal Affairs - a policeman, a healthcare doctor and so on. And a lot will fall into place and idiocy decrease.
              1. Beard
                Beard 5 July 2013 11: 09
                -1
                As one gynecologist told me, the best gynecologists are men. They do not try on female sores.
                The minister should be a professional manager-organizer, not a huckster from a store.
                1. nerd.su
                  nerd.su 5 July 2013 13: 11
                  0
                  Quote: Beard
                  The minister should be a professional manager-organizer, not a huckster from a store.

                  A professional manager-organizer, that is, a manager? Into the neck of professional managers! I remember that we were convinced that deputies should be lawyers, because laws should be adopted by professionals - and what in the end? Legally competent laws from which everything in the country fell into decay?
                  Once again I say - professionals should do everything. And professional managers in Russia have not developed a single industry. Only one Chubais look.
                  1. Beard
                    Beard 11 July 2013 15: 03
                    0
                    Is Chubais a professional manager-organizer? He is the huckster from the flower shop. I.S. Stalin was not a professional military man, but he was People's Commissar of the USSR Armed Forces no worse than any professional military man P. Grachev.
      5. Scoun
        Scoun 4 July 2013 19: 17
        +6
        Quote: seasoned
        ITMO Vladimir Parfyonov said that software students winning the Olympics prefer work in foreign companies to work at the Ministry of Defense.

        There is such ... a relative took the 2nd place .. and the company already holds a place for him in London ... and apparently, after graduation, he’s afraid to break there .... (((
        My friend worked at the research institute and went to the office in Moscow .. he works for Uncle Sam and John ... but he left the research institute because of the payroll of 12000 thousand and a room for three in a hostel
        the other also left the research institute and writes programs for the American dental equipment in the commercial office ...
        I hope that there are young specialists who prefer to put on a uniform and at the same time realize themselves as programmers, the main thing is that the Ministry of Defense would create conditions for their creativity and not
        - Why are you eared, not according to the charter, holding a mouse and knocking on the clave without looking? look where you knock! laughing
        1. mole
          mole 4 July 2013 20: 40
          +3
          Why, then, the Tupolevs and Korolevs did not rush abroad, although they probably knew what was more interesting there! Birds return to cold countries, where it is necessary to fight for existence! Shoigu seems to be a normal manager and if this "sports company" is under the supervision of the minister, which I have no doubt, then even if out of 500 bayonets, but one nugget can will remain. But one thing can be said for sure, from this "adventure" the state is unique - it does not lose ANYTHING! Let each one carry his own eggs! Why would an intellectual need to feed the mosquitoes and learn from the drill !? With a competent organization, there are no minuses, some are pluses, incl. and for the future!
          1. cdrt
            cdrt 4 July 2013 21: 05
            +1
            hmm ... well, so that they wouldn’t leave and build sharaby, and they would leave the country accompanied by the NKVD-MGB and ONLY without relatives, and the conditions were organized for normal work. In addition, propaganda still probably made itself felt even among smart people. Fought the West ...
            Which of these is present today? Well, or rather - thank God that there is no sharag, MGB escorted, hostage relatives, etc ...
          2. lucidlook
            lucidlook 4 July 2013 22: 40
            0
            Quote: Mole
            Why, then, the Tupolevs and Queens did not break abroad, although they probably knew what was more interesting there!

            Previously, there was a slightly different ideology in the state. Previously, there was a common goal, common to all, not like now.
        2. mole
          mole 4 July 2013 20: 42
          0
          The main thing is that according to their abilities they get there, and not for bribes!
        3. nerd.su
          nerd.su 5 July 2013 08: 49
          0
          Quote: Scoun
          I hope that there are young specialists who prefer to put on a uniform and at the same time realize themselves as programmers, the main thing is that the Ministry of Defense would create conditions for their creativity and not

          And what, the call was canceled? :) After all, scientific companies are not going to be recruited from officers.
          So your relative, if the "programmer hunters" will not sleep, first he will serve in a scientific company for a year, and then he will go to London. If, of course, the army does not take a subscription from him, for three years ... So it will gradually grow to Russia)
      6. fzr1000
        fzr1000 4 July 2013 19: 29
        +3
        It's all about "ticket price" and prospects. If they want, they will lure.
        1. Sergey_K
          Sergey_K 4 July 2013 23: 58
          0
          Lure a student to serve in such a place? By the way, why serve, it can be civil. Easy! Interest-free mortgage in any region - trample, you will still choose the best ...
      7. mealnik2005
        mealnik2005 4 July 2013 20: 51
        +3
        "Dean of the Faculty of Information Technologies and Programming of the St. Petersburg National Research University ITMO, Vladimir Parfenov, said that the students-programmers who win the Olympiads will prefer working in foreign companies to work for the Ministry of Defense."

        Lame patriotic education in high school, and on both legs. And it seems to the dean himself that a lot of money falls for every one who has gone to the West - who will refuse the freebie.
        1. experienced
          experienced 4 July 2013 20: 57
          +2
          Quote: mealnik2005
          Lame patriotic education in high school, and on both legs.

          And you will not tell me in what university of Russia patriotic education is carried out now? A university should provide professional knowledge unless it is a Theological Academy or something like that. Patriotic education should be in the family, kindergarten and school, then it is too late. hi
          Quote: mealnik2005
          . And it seems to the dean himself that a lot of money falls for every one who has gone to the West - who will refuse the freebie.

          Aren't you ashamed to blame a deserved person without knowing him? "-" negative

          If tomorrow Shoigu says to track the winners of the Olympics and gather them into a sports company, will we also accuse the coaches of "double-dealing"? Learn to think, not churn out "labels" hi
          1. fisherman
            fisherman 4 July 2013 22: 44
            0
            Patriotic education should be in the family, kindergarten and school, then it is too late.


            yes, it comes first

            everything else in the list of life priorities is in the following places

            and how much pig iron was smelted, and how much nanotechnology was released, and what kind of tsar is now on the throne, and what "ism" the country is currently occupied with, and how successfully the country is fighting corruption - all this is not so important in comparison with the main priority
      8. cdrt
        cdrt 4 July 2013 20: 57
        +2
        Hmm ... I actually work in one of those companies where such guys in this reality come to (a large international IT company).
        The atmosphere, I would say, is fundamentally the opposite of the one that is present in the army ... It’s just fundamentally ... complete freedom in graphics, clothes, behavior, jokes even over the State Duma, while absolutely observing the Labor Code. And they work, with pleasure, for 16 hours sometimes (no one forces - workaholics usually).
        So ... apparently they will go to the army only by force (by conscription, that is).
        1. Sergey_K
          Sergey_K 4 July 2013 23: 42
          +1
          I don’t know why they minded you, but I completely agree with you. Although I am not a prog, I work in R&D. Similarly, if there is a task, you decide how to complete it. Whether at work, at home, with a client, this is your approach and your responsibility.
          I am sure that the army needs departments that develop high level design products. But there should be civil organizations on the contract. Because there are conditions and salaries. A talented programmer gets about 100K, will they pay him so much in the army? Will he have creative freedom? No. There will be no result either.
        2. atalef
          atalef 4 July 2013 23: 54
          +7
          Quote: cdrt
          So ... apparently they will go to the army only by force (by conscription, that is).

          In Israel, such a system has been operating for a very long time. talented ones are selected (with a huge competition in the elite parts of electronic warfare. Electronic warfare, etc.) The army pays for training at Universe particularly successful and promising and gives a deferment from the army for 4-6 years (taking into account the fact that you then remain to serve (according to fomula 3 years + term of study.) And this is the only way to get a deferment from conscription, there are no more options, everyone goes on conscription (and girls). My son, according to this program, is already finishing the 3rd year of university, a year later in the army 7 years (though immediately an officer.) All these graduates go directly to laboratories and research army centers (who do not want to study in the army before the army (so as not to become attached for 7-9 years). They can finish a special course in the army (1-1.5 years, though with the obligation to stay on extra-long for 1-1.5 years (depending on how much I studied))) the program is almost university (though with a narrow specialization) and serve in units of type 8200 - electronic warfare, espionage, etc. - Experience gained in these parts such that many after that no longer go to u-you - they just have nothing to do there. These units in Israel are ultimately a forge of personnel for the citizen. A huge number of young people who served in them after leaving founded their companies on a comp. security, programming, etc. turning into 30 millionaires by the age of XNUMX.
          At the same time, the service is almost like a citizen - including the lack of uniform.
          The son of friends served there for 4 years (without a uni). Now he works (for 5-7 years) in a company related to the protection of information, a salary - we don’t dream of such a thing. In short, the army can be a great place to develop the creative abilities of suitable conscripts, it works (in Israel it’s already 25-30) and the contribution of these * soldiers * to the defense and development of the military-industrial complex is huge.
        3. greenk19
          greenk19 5 July 2013 04: 33
          0
          Hmm ... I actually work in one of those companies where such guys in this reality come to (a large international IT company).
          The atmosphere, I would say, is fundamentally the opposite of the one that is present in the army ... It’s just fundamentally ... complete freedom in graphics, clothes, behavior, jokes even over the State Duma, while absolutely observing the Labor Code. And they work, with pleasure, for 16 hours sometimes (no one forces - workaholics usually).
          So ... apparently they will go to the army only by force (by conscription, that is).

          There is no place for creative people in the army. The furniture maker had a couple of good ideas. For example, when civilians brought order, otherwise for stripes this is the first mind that occupies them. For five years this system would have worked to get out of habit. And so what you listed is not acceptable. A joke at the head, this is actually a betrayal of the homeland. To joke, to be rude is allowed only to the authorities
          Quote: cdrt
      9. poquello
        poquello 4 July 2013 22: 53
        +1
        "Dean of the Faculty of Information Technologies and Programming of the St. Petersburg National Research University ITMO Vladimir Parfenov said that students-programmers who win the Olympiads will prefer working in foreign companies to work for the Ministry of Defense.

        He believes that the Ministry of Defense, most likely, will not be able to offer young specialists the conditions that Yandex and Google offer "

        Have you already sold Yandex?
    2. Gato
      Gato 4 July 2013 18: 28
      +9
      And I work for them. For many years already. Knowing how much good programmers are paid, I strongly doubt that they will go to the "scientific companies". Is that for general salaries
      1. servant
        servant 4 July 2013 19: 19
        +3
        Unlikely for salaries, but for kickbacks it’s possible ...
      2. mole
        mole 4 July 2013 20: 49
        +1
        This is what the talent of a manager consists in (hardly anyone will tell me about Shoigu that he can only drive with HANDS), for sure - this is his "muddied", will be kept under personal control. They will puzzle the clerks and find something to attract! There are always reserves.
      3. poquello
        poquello 4 July 2013 23: 30
        +3
        "And I have been working for them. For many years already. Knowing how much good programmers are paid, I strongly doubt that they will go to the" scientific companies ". Perhaps for generals' salaries."

        I still think the number of good programmers more than covers good salaries. But in this particular case, your thought is absolutely nothing concrete, because (which is clear from Kozhugedovich) a programmer without a programming subject is "like an artist to an artist" (1C programmer, html programmer, web programmer)

        And besides money, there are a lot of motivations, I knew one ChPUshnik - he was terribly proud of participating in the Baikonur.
        1. Gato
          Gato 5 July 2013 10: 55
          0
          I still think the number of good programmers more than covers good salaries

          I assure you, colleague, there are very few people who are really good programmers. As a long-term team lead, I’ll add that choosing the ones suitable for your team is a problem, even for a lot of money. And to find an intelligent task manager who knows the subject area is generally a lottery gain!
          I will not argue about motivation - this is not my level of abstractions.
          1. poquello
            poquello 5 July 2013 22: 59
            +2
            "I assure you, colleague, there are very few people who are really good programmers. As a long-term team lead, I will add that choosing the right ones for your team is a problem, even for a lot of money. And finding a sensible task manager who knows the subject area is generally winning the lottery ! "

            How can you read carefully what programmers? Zhelezyachniki - at the level of mashcodes with their own tasks, then with division by glands, zhelezyachniki - under agreement with the axis, then they went with division along the axes. Assemblers, etc., sishniks, etc., high-level, system, by application. Do you assure me for all of them? My task was supposed - to coordinate the automation with the "neutrino", mine with the "neutrino" did not work - we all go by.
    3. waisson
      waisson 4 July 2013 19: 17
      +2
      I wish there were more people like you who were destined to be on the forefront of attack, and whoever moved their brains a lot, I looked at his son for seven years and he’d better understand me with a computer sometimes ashamed to ask
    4. mole
      mole 4 July 2013 20: 23
      +2
      Come on, just learn better! wink Break a leg!
    5. cdrt
      cdrt 4 July 2013 20: 52
      0
      Are you a laureate of an international programming contest? wink
    6. afire
      afire 5 July 2013 00: 51
      0
      programmer what? C ++ or hardware encoder?
    7. w.ebdo.g
      w.ebdo.g 5 July 2013 01: 48
      +1
      country development data for 10 years ...
    8. greenk19
      greenk19 5 July 2013 03: 54
      0
      Well, you will find a job in the army, but they are unlikely to be allowed to work. They will constantly poke that it’s not personnel ... The bosses who do not understand anything will demand something incomprehensible.
    9. little man
      little man 5 July 2013 11: 48
      -1
      A flair can fail. Skolkovo did not forget? I do not believe in the result of this campaign.
  2. Civil
    Civil 4 July 2013 18: 15
    +3
    The main thing is that an uneducated commander would not be set to lead this all, I believe that they can.
    1. Canep
      Canep 4 July 2013 18: 28
      +8
      Programmers generally do not need a commander; they need a leader who can coordinate their work and nothing more.
      1. cdrt
        cdrt 4 July 2013 21: 13
        +3
        team lead, PM, manager wink
        Something like this.
        As a person living and seemingly successfully working in IT, I think that programmers mean little in general. For even an ingenious coder can just do a good code, no less, but no more.
        The main problem of the same ESU TK is not at all in the quality of the code - the Indians bungle quickly, cheaply and fairly qualitatively (if quality control and testing are properly established).
        The problem is in architecture, general formulation, and in detailed settings. This requires not just knowledge of the code, but knowledge, a deep understanding of the process itself. And this is a complete PPC (you can read the same Dragon of the first one - a prosralipolymer, but after all, everything that describes shows the knowledge of directors at the baseboard level).
        And scientific companies will not solve this problem at all. The director is a professional, not a genius (i.e., a lot of experience and practical knowledge of the subject).
        And scientific companies will solve only one problem - PR MO ...
        1. fisherman
          fisherman 4 July 2013 22: 52
          0
          And scientific companies will not solve this problem at all.


          good task managers are needed in any collective endeavor; their importance can hardly be overestimated

          regarding the problem, what would you advise?
        2. poquello
          poquello 4 July 2013 23: 55
          +1
          "team lead, PM, wink manager
          Something like this."
          "voluntarism"

          "As a person who lives and seems to be successfully working in IT, I think that programmers mean little in general. For even a genius coder can only make good code, no less, but no more."

          Can you tell me the difference between a programmer, encoder, task manager, project manager, developer.
          1. Sergey_K
            Sergey_K 5 July 2013 00: 05
            +2
            A programmer is simply a broad concept. Previously, everyone who knew how to turn on a computer was called programmers.
            Coder - human-machine, lower caste. He is given the task and he is part of the program.
            The task manager is the person who sees the whole problem. All aspects of development, TK, how individual program modules should work, etc. At what time should this be done.
            Project Manager - bears responsibility, solves all organizational issues.
            Developer is a broad concept. All I have listed are developers.
            There is still not enough tester and manager.
            A tester is testing products.
            Manager is looking for customers.
            1. poquello
              poquello 5 July 2013 01: 08
              +1
              That's right, maybe in IT it’s not so - I don’t know.

              "A developer is a broad concept. Everyone I have listed is a developer."

              responsible for the architecture between the director and the encoder

              "There is still a lack of a tester and a manager.
              A tester is testing products.
              The manager is looking for clients. "

              Anikeists and testers are not programmers.
    2. Airman
      Airman 4 July 2013 18: 30
      +1
      Quote: Civil
      The main thing is that an uneducated commander would not be set to lead this all, I believe that they can.

      Aha, the company commander will appoint a professor, doctor of art history, so that he could appreciate this "art".
  3. Xmypp
    Xmypp 4 July 2013 18: 25
    +6
    Would go to our prof. hackers, what difference does it make to crack. And so they would work for the benefit of the Motherland, receive pay and have huge opportunities for their achievements.
    1. Gato
      Gato 4 July 2013 18: 44
      +5
      Quote: Xmypp
      Would go to our prof. hackers, what difference does it make to crack. And so it would work for the good of the Motherland

      Busy! They have long been thoughtfully used by special services.
  4. Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 4 July 2013 18: 26
    +3
    The idea is not bad, there are a lot of smart guys in Russia, and there are still many scattered around the world (they break all the crap in a row and make fun of them) And here in your homeland you can work for the idea (and not only) It's time to assemble a team ... And the corresponding titles (and like "the division of hackers took over on duty ...)))) bully
    1. mole
      mole 4 July 2013 20: 57
      +1
      In the DPRK and the PRC, they seem to intercede, sometimes you hear about them. About Ours, just for fun. So why should geniuses be lost. Not everything is measured by money, not all Abramovichs in Our country and BIGGEST and expensive yacht not everyone needs it. Maybe there will be a place for the "Queen" which, Our descendants, will be proud of! I believe in it! But I know for sure that if you do not look for it, then it certainly will not.
  5. Recon
    Recon 4 July 2013 18: 37
    +8
    We need ideological people, of whom there are not many in the IT environment. But I believe that they are. And, of course, it is necessary that these people calmly go about their business in the service, rather than die at construction sites and household jobs. Shooting once every couple of months and combined-arms physo without fanaticism - this is the maximum that they need to be strained, because this is still intellectual work.
    1. cdrt
      cdrt 4 July 2013 21: 16
      0
      The IT environment is absolutely international. Good programmers sit at home, and work for Americans, Swedes, Canadians, etc. It’s quite difficult to convince that their colleagues, friends with whom there were a lot of things together, from the same Poland, Israel, the States are enemies wink
    2. Sergey_K
      Sergey_K 4 July 2013 23: 47
      0
      Ideal, in the sense, it is not necessary to pay them)
      1. fisherman
        fisherman 5 July 2013 01: 23
        0
        Ideal, in the sense, it is not necessary to pay them)


        in the sense that "it is insulting for the State" replaces part of the salary

        Well, something like this :)
  6. pogis
    pogis 4 July 2013 18: 46
    +2
    are "sharashki" coming back?
  7. individual
    individual 4 July 2013 18: 46
    +5
    Humor. soldier
    In her microblog on Twitter, former Russian intelligence official Anna Chapman invited Edward Snowden to marry her.
    It remains to convince Snowden and under the law on citizenship serve as a programmer in the Russian Army.
    There he will be given a winter hat for free.
    1. little man
      little man 5 July 2013 11: 56
      -1
      Humor is good.
      But the situation with Snowden is not beautiful, in my opinion, it turned out.
      Putin disowned him as hell from incense. Like, he didn’t let him do the bad things about striped broadcasts. (Get fucked! Yes, he would have to give him milk for free!)
      In general, I think Putin stupidly scared.
      1. nerd.su
        nerd.su 5 July 2013 13: 04
        0
        Quote: man
        In general, I think Putin stupidly scared

        Hardly. Rather, he does not want to make Snowden his. I didn’t let him into Ecuador, although he had documents, though not signed by the president. And in the states does not issue. And in general, he immediately declared: We extradite criminals to those countries with which we have an extradition treaty, or exchange ours for yours. So Snowden will sit in our transit hall until either the United States concludes an agreement with us, or does not offer us to wave Snowden to Buta and Yaroshenko. In the latter case, it will be the height of art. Exchange one person who has committed a crime against the United States, for others, also, according to the American court, who planned and committed a crime against the USA! If Putin manages to force the Americans to such an exchange, or at least sign an agreement, he can forgive a lot ...

        But idealists who believe that we do not betray Snowden because he is good will be disappointed.
  8. Sobol
    Sobol 4 July 2013 18: 47
    0
    Correctly! And through these Talents, take our industrial espionage to a new level. And I have not heard for a long time that our intelligence has put some know-how on anyone.
    1. Canep
      Canep 4 July 2013 19: 27
      +1
      The rod is mainly ours. And they don’t bother, they manage with two running circuits - in the morning money, in the evening chairs.
    2. Draz
      Draz 4 July 2013 19: 30
      +1
      So it works well hi
    3. Yarosvet
      Yarosvet 4 July 2013 20: 18
      0
      Quote: SoboL
      And I have not heard for a long time that our intelligence has put some know-how on anyone.
      Our intelligence is extremely scrupulous regarding the patent rights of potential adversaries.
  9. NickitaDembelnulsa
    NickitaDembelnulsa 4 July 2013 18: 47
    +5
    I hope our hackers can compete with the Chinese Army of Hackers
    1. 11 black
      11 black 4 July 2013 19: 30
      +4
      Quote: NickitaDembelnulsa
      I hope our hackers can compete with the Chinese Army of Hackers

      Do not hesitate - if ours get down to business (and they are rightfully considered the most brainy - the Olympiads confirm this), Americans will remember the good "Chinese" times with nostalgia.
      And by the way, there are a lot of conscious people among programmers who can agree to work for the MO even under less favorable (within reasonable limits of course) conditions, here is an example
      1. cdrt
        cdrt 4 July 2013 21: 21
        0
        hmm ...
        Well, firstly, a brainy programmer and a hacker are completely different things.
        A programmer, as a rule, is obsessed with doing something. Hacker - something to break.
        Also...
        In my opinion, according to existing statistics, most of the hacker attacks in Europe come from the Russian Federation, Germany and only then China. In the world - in my opinion, again, the Russian leader. Only relatively USA leader China
        1. experienced
          experienced 4 July 2013 21: 24
          +3
          Quote: cdrt
          In my opinion, according to existing statistics, most of the hacker attacks in Europe come from the Russian Federation, Germany and only then China. In the world - in my opinion, again, the leader of the Russian Federation

          Or maybe this is just the coolness of hackers from other countries? Patriotism, that is, your g ... o shove the neighbor to the hacker as two fingers abasfayt? wink
    2. zart_arn
      zart_arn 4 July 2013 19: 42
      +2
      "CHOOSING PASSWORD for Pentagon servers"
      randomly cherished combination. laughing
      1. 11 black
        11 black 4 July 2013 19: 54
        +1
        Quote: zart_arn
        "CHOOSING PASSWORD for pentagoda servers"
        randomly cherished combination. laughing

        CEP - are you ???? laughing
    3. cdrt
      cdrt 4 July 2013 21: 19
      +5
      About Chinese hackers about 8 years ago, when they hacked the Pentagon server there was a joke.
      The Chinese hacked into the Pentagon's server. The operation involved 1 billion Chinese. Everyone entered the password once. Everyone entered the same password - "Mao Zedong". After 878 million retries, the server agreed that its password was "Mao Zedong" wink
      1. poquello
        poquello 5 July 2013 00: 23
        +1
        "After 878 million retries, the server agreed that its password was" Mao Zedong "

        cool
        However, the first Chinese software did.
  10. Apollo
    4 July 2013 18: 48
    +7
    quote-"Application Areas for military personnel there are a lot of such companies. This, in particular, is the work on creating mobile electrical installations on alternative power sources, which are the sun and wind, such installations are needed for mining units, as well as installations for the extraction and purification of water, ”RIA Novosti quotes Shoigu.
    In addition, according to him, the military is interested in communications, robotics and "everything innovative that is possible for use in the Armed Forces."

    it’s commendable that Defense Minister S. Shoigu famously took up this matter. Honor and praise. A small digression, a long time ago, 30 years have passed since the information that was published in central newspapers. I’m writing from memory. A French intelligence veteran was asked what’s the country's strongest intelligence service. I want to make a reservation at once; his answer was subjective. So, in response to a question, he stated literally the following, in terms of the speed of clarity of precision of the Israeli Mossad, in terms of political intrigue, of course, the CIA, in terms of globality and industrial spy even this is of course the KGB. In my opinion, I don’t see anything bad and shameful about it. It’s another matter if the latest developments of the opponents, with the help of domestic special services, would fall into the hands of these young specialists. It’s possible to turn off the mountains then, in terms of further research and discoveries, while catching up with lost time.
    1. cdrt
      cdrt 4 July 2013 21: 23
      +3
      Shameful of course there is nothing. The USSR really lagged behind Europe and the USA. Thanks to scientific and technical reconnaissance, so many good things were obtained for copying - one atomic bomb is worth what ...
      So ... NT intelligence really were super-fellows.
  11. Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 4 July 2013 19: 01
    +1
    Now in the modern world (given that everyone is armed with drones, robots, etc.) There is a global information war .. (it's time to create separate military units (hacker programmers .. or we'll be late again ..)
    1. zart_arn
      zart_arn 4 July 2013 19: 45
      +2
      Are you ready to pay a double general salary to an ordinary such a part?
      1. 11 black
        11 black 4 July 2013 22: 31
        0
        Quote: zart_arn
        Are you ready to pay a double general salary to an ordinary such a part?


        If this part can at the right moment "take out" all means of communication, satellite reconnaissance, UAVs, etc., and so on, then you can fork out! ...

        PS as amers and all NATO is very vulnerable to cyber attacks ...
  12. APASUS
    APASUS 4 July 2013 19: 24
    +5
    I think that if they are paid with dignity, they will not be able to get into the army, but if forced, then there will be no sense.
  13. True
    True 4 July 2013 19: 30
    +3
    First there were the military settlements of Arakcheev, then the sharashka of Stalin ... now this. Not to create normal research institutes, where the same students will work for a decent salary.
    1. cdrt
      cdrt 4 July 2013 21: 24
      -1
      This is not our method.
      Our power holders learned from childhood to divide and take away, and not to add and multiply wink
  14. Andrey Peter
    Andrey Peter 4 July 2013 19: 32
    +7
    And I like Shoigu more and more. Unscheduled exercises and much more immediately went. That's just with scientific
    companies really do not understand. To take talented young programmers, I think he will not be in the company, but in the development departments that deal with UAVs, for example. In principle, he knows better how he will arrange it wink
  15. Starksa
    Starksa 4 July 2013 19: 52
    +3
    And I would go to a scientific company, only a university graduate, but health is not so hot
  16. Vlad-32
    Vlad-32 4 July 2013 20: 01
    +1
    I believe that our state and the Moscow Region do the right and the right thing in resolving this issue. All the ministry and the programmers themselves will benefit from this. Finally, a reasonable decision has been made. And I'm far from the idea expressed here by individual users that programmers are agents. Bullshit and nothing more! It’s not so often that they sell our homeland.
  17. Whale
    Whale 4 July 2013 20: 01
    0
    The final of the ACM ICPC international programming world team championship ended yesterday in St. Petersburg. For the first time in 37-year history this tournament was held in Russia. The main organizer of the championship in Russia was the St. Petersburg National Research University of Information Technologies, Mechanics and Optics (NRU ITMO), Yandex was its official partner. NRU ITMO did not accept the championship by chance - students of this university became world champions four times in the last 10 years and this year they defended their title
    1. Whale
      Whale 4 July 2013 20: 02
      0
      Almost from the very beginning of the competition, the NRU ITMO team came out on top. At some point, they overtook the closest rival in two tasks, which is a huge gap for these competitions. As a result, the NRU ITMO team did not lose the first place - the guys solved 10 out of 11 problems and successfully defended the championship title. The second place was taken by the team of Shanghai Technical University with 9 tasks, the third - the team of the University of Tokyo, which solved 8 problems. According to the rules of the tournament, medals are awarded not only to the first three, but to all teams that took from 1 to 12 places - the teams of St. Petersburg State University and the BSU received silver medals, and the Moscow State University and Perm State University - bronze. Congratulations to the guys with the won medals, and NRU ITMO - with the fifth championship title!
      1. Whale
        Whale 4 July 2013 20: 04
        -4
        And as you can see from the above, the task is not to find people, but to lie in how to launder money under a plausible pretext
      2. cdrt
        cdrt 4 July 2013 21: 28
        -1
        hmm ... this is certainly great, only MIT and Stanford are the absolute leaders in IT talents. Interesting - did they participate (I'm serious)?
    2. cdrt
      cdrt 4 July 2013 21: 26
      0
      Such guys need to be sent to Yandex, and not to sharaby.
      And to make sure that not only Yandex can survive in the Russian Federation ...
      The country will benefit hundreds of times more
      1. Sergey_K
        Sergey_K 4 July 2013 23: 52
        0
        Yandex has very good conditions and high-level engineers. Do not worry about them.
  18. Karabin
    Karabin 4 July 2013 20: 03
    +7
    “Today I heard on television that the students of one of the St. Petersburg universities for the fifth time became world programming champions. They must be found.

    And if the Minister of Defense had not turned on the TV or turned on at another time? Everything, the army would have remained without programmers. By my naivety, I thought that somewhere, where, and even in the power ministries, there are definitely analytical departments that are called upon to generate such ideas, to calculate situations and provide all this to management. I’m even afraid to suggest what else Shoigu could get from our television. It is necessary to protect our ministers from malicious channels, leaving only profile ones.
    1. Whale
      Whale 4 July 2013 20: 18
      +3
      I can add that our ministers also learn about life in the country from television

      and the mine of defense has died for a long time.
      and the smell of decomposition is profusely covered by grandiose plans and pathos lies and nostalgia for the old days
      1. aviamed90
        aviamed90 4 July 2013 20: 26
        +1
        Karabin

        And profile ones - which ones?

        Nightly erotic?
        1. cdrt
          cdrt 4 July 2013 21: 28
          +1
          Yes, and the Star Channel wink
  19. Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 4 July 2013 20: 04
    0
    Quote: zart_arn
    Are you ready to pay a double general salary to an ordinary such a part?

    No, of course ... they’ll buy it anyway ... in Russia everything is different .. and you don’t need to provoke.! (Because it’s useless ..)
    1. cdrt
      cdrt 4 July 2013 21: 30
      0
      On the other hand ... the AOI seem to say there are scientific companies.
      But ... there the atmosphere in the army is the opposite of ours, and the threats to Israel are hundreds of times more real than ours
  20. aviamed90
    aviamed90 4 July 2013 20: 23
    +3
    One thing is not clear to me: Shoigu - Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation or is he in charge of the military-industrial complex (MIC)?

    Maybe let everyone do their own thing?
  21. Whale
    Whale 4 July 2013 20: 25
    0
    Now let's think about what these scientific companies will do to write viruses, crack, ..... and without the bottom craftsmen enough
    That's right: listed in part for it will be a child of bureaucrats and talkers
  22. Yarosvet
    Yarosvet 4 July 2013 20: 30
    +1
    Mdya ... Right stream of non-targeted initiatives ...
    1. cdrt
      cdrt 4 July 2013 21: 31
      +1
      There was a sketch in the HB sketch show when the guy was considered fit until he was torn apart by the pressure of the atrerial wink
  23. Bezarius
    Bezarius 4 July 2013 20: 33
    +1
    I would also probably not refuse to work as a software developer for combat systems, though the prospect of working with bureaucrats who have a brain full of fat and who are unable to think in a modern way doesn’t appeal to them, moreover, I don’t think that they will really offer work, and I don’t want to be on-site. ..
    1. cdrt
      cdrt 4 July 2013 21: 33
      +3
      I remember because of the admission (and restricted to leave the place) at one time I refused a similar offer ...
      Although ... the man who called me bureaucrats was not. Such a good cinematographer, engineer, intelligent programmer. Yes, and a decent man with humor. But ... above him was a regiment of infantry wink , a complete dumb scumbag clerk ...
      I talked with him and the next day I sent him away (1996) ...
      Although later, in 2003, he met his father’s father — an air defense engineer, a state prize laureate, and a smart girl. So his subordinates and colleagues - both smart and sensible eyes, and sane ... Only all of them were already fired from the army then, now there are only a few
  24. bubla5
    bubla5 4 July 2013 21: 19
    +3
    What to look for them in Russia is a whole army of unclaimed people with disabilities, computer specialists, if you use them at least 30-40% of their potential together, you can bring the whole world and network to its knees in front of our country
  25. Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 4 July 2013 21: 40
    0
    Such structures have long existed in the special services of different countries .. and drive all sorts of fans to pick out .. not bad .. Snowden took advantage of his official position .. simply. For Russia, plus, but they may appear in our country too ... So if they create a military information unit ... they will take new young people and train them accordingly .. So relax gentlemen, hackers break ATMs and the like .. (I don’t about everyone)
  26. Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 4 July 2013 22: 07
    0
    Quote: bubla5
    What to look for them in Russia is a whole army of unclaimed people with disabilities, computer specialists, if you use them at least 30-40% of their potential together, you can bring the whole world and network to its knees in front of our country

    Good idea !! .. Will they only agree to this .. ?? Inter is their world of communication .. And they’ll be put in secret .. so don’t know .. New ones are needed .. (the rest just sit on the forums drinking beer and cracking all kinds of cans and all their hobby .. alas .. (not all. . no offense ..)
  27. I think so
    I think so 4 July 2013 22: 15
    +1
    This minister gave a stupid task ... The programmer needs to be trained for 10-15 years, giving him the WORK to set STRENGTHENING and more complicated tasks ... And to recruit balabol students who can turn on the computer and drive bugs on it. ventures will make money grow up the know-it-alls of those who know nothing, who in a year will go to sell cowards in the market (they all have one thing to program, what to trade, anyway MOBAL to mow). Ah Minister, Minister ... It's easy to crush, but hard to build ...
    1. Rumata
      Rumata 4 July 2013 23: 45
      +2
      Quote: I think so
      And to recruit balabol students who know how to turn on the computer and drive bugs on it.

      All the armies of the world that have similar "scientific" companies do this. That it is better to recruit 500 children, teach them for ten years, spend money, some will not work, some will flee to civilian life. Or to lure successful graduates from leading universities in the right specialties with gingerbread?
      Quote: I think so
      . And to recruit balabol students who know how to turn on the computer and drive bugs on it.

      If for you the winners of the Olympiad, drove bugs on it, then Google will help you.
      Here is the problem from a simple student olympiad, not even international, chase bugs

      Input File Name: H.in
      Output File Name: H.out
      The maximum task execution time is 10 seconds.

      The pattern consists of m (2..10) circles defined by their coordinates of the centers (x, y) and radii r. Find the largest number of circles whose centers lie on the lines of the first circle.
      Input format
      In the first line, the number m is the number of circles, in the next m lines is the center x, y and the radius r of each circle /
      Output format
      One number is the number of such circles.
      1. iv82an
        iv82an 5 July 2013 16: 21
        +1
        Powerful puzzle. Grades for 5 or 6 regular school.
        In extreme cases, from the Olympiad for music schools or veterinary colleges.
        Find the length of the line between the two coordinates of the centers and compare it with the length of the radius of the first circle.
        I am far from a programmer, but in 5,7 programming languages ​​I will write it (Like many others).

        I hope the scientific company will not be engaged in such tasks.
  28. Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 4 July 2013 22: 26
    +2
    Quote: I think so
    This minister gave a stupid task ... The programmer needs to be trained for 10-15 years, giving him the WORK to set STRENGTHENING and more complicated tasks ... And to recruit balabol students who can turn on the computer and drive bugs on it. ventures will make money grow up the know-it-alls of those who know nothing, who in a year will go to sell cowards in the market (they all have one thing to program, what to trade, anyway MOBAL to mow). Ah Minister, Minister ... It's easy to crush, but hard to build ...

    It depends on how you look .. percentages 90-95 will be .. With what you need to start finally .. or again we will scratch the back of the head .. ???
  29. individual
    individual 4 July 2013 22: 28
    +2
    The idea of ​​combining study and service was born within the walls of the Moscow State Technical University, the military department became interested in the details of the plan developed in one of the best Russian technical universities. The first "scientific company" will be created on the basis of the Air Force Academy named after Professor Zhukovsky and Gagarin in Voronezh. The competition for the selection of candidates was three people per seat, but in total, until July 5, the military promised to recruit 35 people there.
  30. Russ69
    Russ69 4 July 2013 22: 47
    +1
    I watched the Zvezda report. As Shoigu said, they will attract Olympiad scholars and all that sort of thing. If "thieves" appear in the scientific companies, then all the command that is assigned to him will be dismissed.
    The promise is certainly good, but let's see what happens.
  31. ALEKS419
    ALEKS419 4 July 2013 23: 02
    +2
    [quote = cdrt] Who served in the army, does not laugh at the circus ... [/ quote does not agree with you radically!
    1. fisherman
      fisherman 4 July 2013 23: 30
      0
      in the army without humor is impossible
  32. mirag2
    mirag2 4 July 2013 23: 39
    0
    It's time, in England, even just gamers (not to mention IT specialists) are hired to work in the Armed Forces.
  33. Locksmith
    Locksmith 5 July 2013 00: 05
    0
    Something this step reminds me of Shoigu somehow PR, and then damn it and without him did not know who else to draw into the army and without too much chatter, I doubt that these programmers need such advertising sad
  34. rpek32
    rpek32 5 July 2013 00: 12
    0
    The main thing is that any grandmothers
    http://lurkmore.to/%D0%90%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%B9_%D0%91%D0%B0%D0%B1
    %D1%83%D1%88%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%BD
    and Popovs
    http://lurkmore.to/%D0%94%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%81_%D0%9F%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B2


    not scored, otherwise it will be a failure
  35. Andrey Peter
    Andrey Peter 5 July 2013 00: 25
    +2
    After some comments, I don’t understand their meaning at all. Firstly, what kind of kickbacks can a young programmer have. Nobody will offer him the salary of two generals. And the second one does not have to judge everything by his standards. Guys when they are passionate about their work / hobby / and they will be offered to work for the country with good equipment and perspective with pleasure IMX will agree. And in order to earn money in business, you still need to break through.
  36. Alex Nick
    Alex Nick 5 July 2013 00: 31
    0
    The guys are great and deserve an interesting job. I think they will not be disappointed.
  37. minimum
    minimum 5 July 2013 01: 31
    +2
    Children with brilliant prospects are offered to forcibly work at home "for the idea") Not a bad motivation for proper and tireless work. In this area, with people of this type, such an orderly attitude with searches and compulsory service does not make sense, programmers will simply kill time without straining. It is necessary to offer money, perspectives, respectfully and with a smile, on tiptoe, but keeping the style with a withdrawal to the unit accompanied by the police, at least in a scientific company, will simply lead to loss of time, loss of students' qualifications and nothing more. Comical, almost the reincarnation of sharashki in some strange and absurd form.
    Z. Well, the younger ones, having looked at it all, will simply be more intensely trying to get away from here early to work in the West. I repeat, forced work in the case of such people does not make sense, it just pisses people off.
  38. FC SKIF
    FC SKIF 5 July 2013 05: 28
    +1
    Analytics in the sun at altitude. The minister watched on television ...
  39. Free Island
    Free Island 5 July 2013 07: 09
    0
    and then, in the glorious Soviet times, will these programmers be locked up in cellars, bunkers and other dungeons, where, after a couple of years, at the end of the task, will the programmer’s relatives be sent a notification of their missing relative?
  40. gregor6549
    gregor6549 5 July 2013 07: 55
    +2
    It is not entirely clear what Shoigu wants to achieve with his "search". If the army has a need for programmers, announce a competition to fill the vacant positions of these programmers with details of their place of work, remuneration of their labor, housing, growth prospects and other matters, and if these conditions are tempting for this category of workers, then they will not look for anyone have to, they themselves will run and will fight for a place with their hands and feet. And why are we talking only about programmers? That other categories of highly qualified specialists are needed less? You can't win a war on one "tsifir"
  41. Vtel
    Vtel 5 July 2013 09: 33
    0
    Without specifics, the next Skolkovo would not have worked, there was a lot of force and a lot of money, and everything was like water off a duck. Here you need to take everything out of control and you need a specific control and it’s not bad from sticking and grabbers in uniform and ranks.