Military Review

Putin and Forts. As the namesake about the reform of Russian science in different languages ​​spoke

148
Nothing in our country is carried out as quickly as a dubious reform. Slowly harnessed, fast going? .. Our Government really harnessed - not God knows, but now literally broke the chain (hmm ... is our Government chained? - although who knows who knows ...)


Putin and Forts. As the namesake about the reform of Russian science in different languages ​​spoke


Another clearly ill-conceived reform emerged in the sphere of Russian science. This is against the background of the fact that the mechanism of the “reformed” (according to the letter of the new law) education has not yet been launched. Scientific reform, as has already been reported on the Military Review website, concerns the fact that the RAS will lose control over several academies of sciences that will be under the jurisdiction of a certain agency, and the RAS itself will be spared from managing its own property. The next “effective manager” will come, who will “help” the scientists ...

At the same time, the motives for the reform are approximately the following: our hearts (members of the Government) literally bleed at the sight of how our scientists have to do business, which takes them a lot of time from scientific research. Like, dear comrades scientists, so that you can work better and more productively in the scientific field, we will carry out optimization, tested by past reforms, and put the burden of responsibility for all scientific property on our fragile bureaucratic shoulders ... Scientists themselves translate this tirade into accessible language as follows: you hear , scientists! Something too divorced you, you are sitting on multi-billion-dollar property, do not share property with us (officials). And if so, we will halve your composition, we will lower the RAS under the bureaucratic apparatus, we will destroy the property following the example of the notorious Oboronservis, and after that - work yourself with God - after all, there will be no problems with the economy, because neither will there be (infernal laughter coming from outside the walls of the Ministry of Education and Science follows).

5 July The State Duma is going to consider a bill on the reform of the Russian Academy of Sciences. The most surprising thing is that even the Ministry of Education and Science, headed by Livanov, refuses to recognize the authorship of the bill. This, in particular, is stated by the elected president of the Russian Academy of Sciences, Vladimir Fortov.

Today I was surprised to find that the author does not have a document either. Livanov says that he did not even stand behind the backs of those who wrote the draft, says academician Fortov.

Strange ... Although almost from the very moment I found myself in the chair, the minister stubbornly insisted on the need to urgently reform the scientific system of Russia, building it in the American way and likeness, putting it on business rails. Moreover, Dmitry Livanov and Deputy Prime Minister Olga Golodets, confirming that the reform project is “somewhat unfinished,” continue to insist on its early adoption. At the same time, truly enchanting arguments are cited: until the bill has taken legal force, the scientific community will worry, and after the law enters into force, the same scientific community will cease to worry ...

In this regard, the statements of Livanov about the fact that “this is not me, this is someone else” look unintelligible and look more like a blatant lie.

It should be noted that Academician Fortov (elected president of the Russian Academy of Sciences) has been looking for meetings with President Vladimir Putin recently, wanting to bring to him that the Russian Academy of Sciences itself has plans for reform, and these plans are much more productive for the scientific community than those , news of which came from government offices. Vladimir Fortov achieved a meeting with Putin, but ... This very meeting made some kind of aching impression. Usually, the confident man and Forces, the Forts, looked absolutely depressed and hardly chose words to convince the country's president to decide at least to postpone the consideration of the bill, which most of our valiant lawmakers are ready to support. As they say, we would only have something to vote for, let’s press the necessary buttons ...

Forts went astray, allowed reservations, issued his excitement. He asked the president to give him a year first, then time until November, with the goal that he (the elected president of the Russian Academy of Sciences) would begin his version of transforming the scientific system of Russia. At the same time, President Putin gave the impression of a person who knows ahead of time that there will be reform (in its government version), and that all emotional upheavals of academicians of the RAS on this issue should be excluded. “It’s better to do than not to do it,” President Putin announced, rather than nullifying all the calls from Fortov’s namesake to postpone making a decision on the RAS. Fortov's proposals to give him a chance to carry out that reform of the scientific system, which has been worked out in the expert community of scientists, Putin left no response at all. At least, the journalists did not hear any comments from the presidents of the country. President Putin put the final point, said the word “recount!” In response to the accusations of Vladimir Fortov who concocted the bill in arithmetic illiteracy.

After the meeting of the two names of the presidents (the president of the country with the presidents of the Russian Academy of Sciences) there was a feeling that Fortov was given to understand: Vladimir Yevgenyevich, although we were elected to the presidency, but the president is the only one in the country, and his patronymic is definitely not Yevgenievich ... If it is “better to do,” it means who will do it. If we “recount!”, It means that someone will extract their large bureaucratic calculators from wide pants and start to “recount”. Someone will press the "correct" buttons when voting. And as a result, “effective” managers of the Ogurtsovs, who, denounced by the authorities, will begin to impose “order” in the economic sector of the academy with a clear desire to “manage” by the academic community, will flow into the scientific sphere of Russia. Just give our official! He will quickly indicate on which door one or another academician should enter, and which one to go through, which project to start, which one to cut. Management, tree-stick ... Yes, and eHWeHtivny.

And after this briskly carried out reform in a mode of lightning and victorious war, the appearance of thousands of publications by Russian academics in English-language journals (what Mr. Livanov is dreaming about) seems to be seen as being literally pulled from the place of Skolkovo along with Rosnano ”, how our ships will start something again and plow somewhere, how our scientists one by one will become Nobel laureates. Such a beautiful rainbow dream.
And in reality: it is necessary to save not only the property of the RAS, as it already was with the property of the Ministry of Defense, but also the academicians themselves, many of whom have already stated that they are not going to work under the command of the Ogurtsovs.

PS Education, medicine, police, police, army, Roscosmos and the political system have already been reformed. Why would you put your hands? ..
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  1. Stephen
    Stephen 5 July 2013 08: 32 New
    +8
    In a word, a mess !!!
    1. Beibit
      Beibit 5 July 2013 09: 41 New
      +3
      Well then, the president is determined ??? Liberast ???
      1. Yegorchik
        Yegorchik 5 July 2013 19: 13 New
        +1
        No matter what, he removed the last adequate minister and replaced Terry liberal Ulyukaev with his faithful companion Gaidar, but it’s especially so that when they hit their bastards all over Russia, he won’t look for them as ministers or ministers.
        1. Dilshat
          Dilshat 7 July 2013 02: 57 New
          0
          After the articles in the yellow press that Putin had been replaced by something, some doubts arise. It’s time for the Russians to ask the question asked by the Western press at the beginning of 2000. -Who are you Mr. Putin? Although you often heard from young people that pensioners sit in KB and NII until their death receive a huge salary and pension. They take places, they don’t give young people the way. They haven’t come up with anything new for a long time.
    2. kris
      kris 5 July 2013 09: 43 New
      29
      Reformers are bad!
      1. Beibit
        Beibit 5 July 2013 10: 43 New
        11
        They say one thing they do another ... If Syria falls ... i.e. Assad will be removed and politics there will become pro-Western, then Putin is definitely a traitor. all conversations, promises, threats and his statements will not cost anything ... It turns out he said what the people wanted to hear ... but After all, what is not done is much more important than what he did ...
        1. Per se.
          Per se. 5 July 2013 12: 04 New
          11
          Interestingly, Putin referred to the government on timelines, but isn't he our president? Where in such a hurry, everything is very reminiscent of Serdyukov’s reforms in the army, now there will be its own outsourcing for science, and its academic “Navy headquarters” from the capital will move somewhere closer to the “sea” ... I would like to be mistaken here, but unless for the stolen billions and billions more damage to the same manager from the defense planted?
    3. ShturmKGB
      ShturmKGB 5 July 2013 12: 14 New
      -2
      I think everything will be normal if Pu is in the know about the events of the academy ...
      1. valokordin
        valokordin 5 July 2013 12: 30 New
        11
        ShturmKGB
        I think everything will be normal if Pu is in the know about the events of the academy ...

        Apparently, the president is the author of the reform of the Academy, but he does not like the sound arguments of the President of the RAS
    4. w.ebdo.g
      w.ebdo.g 5 July 2013 13: 39 New
      0
      I completely disagree with the author of this article!
      the very first indicator that the president is doing the right thing is the cries of condemnation from abroad.
      so now, the entire world community (scientific) is shouting to their media and our media that what a stupid and hasty project the president invented! (let them figure out their geyropa at home) Where it is seen, the president wanted to take state property from a small group of "scientists" ... but how dare he?
      these "scientists" are engaged in theft and profit from the works of real intelligent scientists. Only 44% of the property on the balance sheet of scientists is entered into the register ... And where is the remaining 66% ??? And they no longer exist, either sold, or appropriated. Now the president has given the command to audit 100% of the ownership of science institutions.
      So they fussed. They began to organize rallies, to remember what good fellows they were, how difficult it was for them to raise science. And before that, everything was OK! only there was no sense at all.
      Now "eminent scientists" will begin to speak, our and foreign ones on this subject, and attract those who are simply sincerely mistaken because they are not an economist, but have a real name in the world. They will be emphasized.
      No one wants to give away what he already considers his own. There are few such "scientists", but they have long been in leadership positions. They are not engaged in science, but in personal enrichment. Nothing will happen to science if these dozens of people are deprived of state property.
      but they will rally together against the president. Rallies will begin, the media will hoarse yell about the president’s stupidity, home-grown economists will learn how to do the right thing, the yellow press will go crazy altogether))), and all sorts of Navalny and others like him will slurp this topic and try to raise people to rallies ...
      hell with two, what you can do! We’ll take away everything state, we will convict thieves and put us in prison! And the media will be forced to answer for every false word. Only the truth, otherwise it is impossible!
      I think so.
      1. Papakiko
        Papakiko 5 July 2013 15: 15 New
        +5
        Fortov went astray, made reservations that betrayed his excitement. He asked the president to give him first a year, then time until November with the goal that he (the elected president of the RAS) began to carry out his version of the transformation of the scientific system of. At the same time, President Putin gave the impression of a man who knows ahead of time that there should be a reform (in its governmental version), and that all sincere throwings of the RAS academicians on this issue should be excluded. “Better to do than not to do.”
        Fortov de facto agreed that the RAS was "mess" and it was required to clean up the "gimmicks".
        Quote: w.ebdo.g
        There are few such "scientists", but they have long been in leadership positions. They are not engaged in science, but in personal enrichment.

        They are also officials and do not differ from municipal or state. Purely "effective managers."
        Mass education (schools for the majority of the country's inhabitants) were ruined.
        Grammar schools for 30 a month rule and the "kids" there officials and wealthy citizens are trained. Who in the future will move science, sons or daughters of Fursenkov, Shoigov, Gryzlov, Medvedev and so on? They didn’t rest against anyone in any place.
      2. aviamed90
        aviamed90 5 July 2013 15: 27 New
        +5
        w.ebdo.g

        Do you consider the “cries of condemnation from abroad” an indicator?

        An indicator of what? The correctness or incorrectness of decisions?
        And where does the opinion of the West? In general, no one was interested in his opinion. This is our internal affair.

        The only indicator and criterion of correctness can be only RESULT! Helpfully helpful. Useful for the country, state and citizens.
        But with the results (especially positive), the country's leadership has big problems.
        1. w.ebdo.g
          w.ebdo.g 5 July 2013 21: 13 New
          +2
          yes, I think "screaming and swearing from abroad" is a great indicator that we are doing everything right ...
          at least 20 years this indicator does not lie, so why not believe it now?
          Thanks for attention.
          1. ammunition
            ammunition 5 July 2013 21: 40 New
            +2
            Quote: w.ebdo.g
            yes, I think "screaming and swearing from abroad" is a great indicator that we are doing everything right ...
            at least 20 years this indicator does not lie, so why not believe it now?
            Thanks for attention.


            Have you tried to think with your head? recourse
            -------
            Give at least one screech from Western politicians (and local activists) in defense of Russian science.
            -------
            And the fact that honest and dedicated foreign scientists cast votes against ..
            This is because they are deprived of competent Russian colleagues. (there aren’t too many good scientists) .. they lose the expected results .. they were counting on .. Well, out of corporate solidarity.
            -----
            So (in this case) your logic is "sit in a puddle."
            Occasionally .. And from the west you can hear the truth.
            1. aksakal
              aksakal 6 July 2013 00: 31 New
              -1
              Dear Ammunition! The indicator works, and how! If the west screeched, it means that we are going right! Checked! That you believe in what you want to believe. Do you want to believe that there are enemies around Russia, in the Government - enemies, and the people themselves are the enemies of Russia. Instead of doing great things and saving the world, eating, a bastard, he wants to live more beautifully, he requires order! This is actually called paranoia. I’ll say tougher - I came to this site three years ago, I felt comfortable. Now the site has literally become extreme - around enemies, we urinate everyone! The holy belief that everything was the very thing in the USSR returns the USSR in the Stalinist form and so on. This is extremism, I do not like it. The USSR was not an ideal, I lived and worked in it, yesterday on a branch about the industry of the USSR, evidence that not everything was perfect in the USSR - I picked up only the minuses! Let's turn on the head to get rid of normal, what are you here declaring war on the whole world? You decide for youth how to live! In short, we are driving youth into your favorite dirty, stinking of engine oil workshop, where you can go deaf from the noise after a beep and like this for life, the morlocks are damn! Young people will send you, and they will do it right! And I will join them - you like to spend life in these workshops, according to your opinion, you can see that instead of reading and self-education, you carry iron pieces, and then climb out here and freeze stupid things !!!!
              1. ammunition
                ammunition 6 July 2013 02: 07 New
                +4
                Dear Aksakal.
                You were mistaken about my modest person.
                Even I have one, are (long) 3 ( three) fully prepared (theoretically) experiment. Need access to orbit. Need a station "Mir", which drowned. .. The fact is that it is impossible to put these experiments on the ISS .. For many reasons .. mostly political.
                -----
                Secondly - already clearly wrote - No no squeals from the west. There is a correct and reasonable dissatisfaction with Western scholars who worked in tandem with ours. Worked together. More-less.
                -------
                Regarding the "oiled shops" ... When the workshops were oiled with us, then in the west there were "oiled" workshops.
                Time runs. The range of products is changing. And the products themselves. Technology is being improved. Working conditions are also changing.
                So do not .. about the "oiled."
                -----------
                As for the fact that - "enemies around" .. I will not say that the obvious enemies. I will say - an infection and an abomination.
                So .. sooner or later .. But! Will need to install Iron curtain.. primarily informational. But first you need to collect the country so that, as in the USSR, you have everything you need for development at home.
                Therefore - science is extremely necessary and important!
                --------
                I will not convince you that the proposed "reform" is worthless. All the same, you are "not sure" repeat This is a worldview difference .. Here it is - either a physicist-engineer .. or manager-lawyer. laughing
                1. aksakal
                  aksakal 6 July 2013 22: 02 New
                  0
                  Quote: ammunition
                  Remy is coming. The range of products is changing. And the products themselves. Technology is being improved. Working conditions are also changing.
                  So do not .. about the "oiled."

                  posted to you below, there Vasilich entered into a dispute for you.
                2. T-73
                  T-73 7 July 2013 19: 00 New
                  0
                  Like this. Everything is simple and unpretentious. Need an orbital station. No more no less. Handsomely. The rest - you can not read, corny
              2. T-73
                T-73 7 July 2013 19: 17 New
                0
                Dear Aksakal! What you consider extremism on this resource is only a desire to identify the people, developing an injection, so to speak. Few of us Russians (not Russians - RUSSIANS) are mocked on the internet? Every trash is trying to learn how to live. As for the "wet" - we will, we will certainly, let them try to ONLY bring us theirs (yours?) Democracy. And what's wrong with oiled workshops? Have you been to the depot? Or in the fleet? I am touched by white iPhones in the hands of a locksmith :). And what forgive me for those who live in their small town somewhere in the north and clean the collector of diesel locomotives? There is no other! And why did you decide that happiness is somewhere far from the same workshop? Needed where was born. And if there is no one left in the workshops - the offices are clean, cool, with cooler-conditioning - no one will need a fuck. Wash, and then "nonsense freeze"
            2. w.ebdo.g
              w.ebdo.g 8 July 2013 11: 30 New
              0
              I tried to think with my head ...
              since you don’t know how to draw conclusions, here is a video with chewed thoughts *
          2. Komsomolets
            Komsomolets 6 July 2013 04: 46 New
            +4
            Do you really think that we have been going in the right direction for 20 years?
          3. sergey261180
            sergey261180 6 July 2013 15: 41 New
            0
            Quote: w.ebdo.g
            at least 20 years this indicator does not lie

            What kind of schedule is this?
            1. aksakal
              aksakal 6 July 2013 21: 17 New
              +1
              Quote: sergey261180
              What kind of schedule is this?

              - It is not entirely clear why W.ebdo.g brought this schedule. This is the most common chart of fluctuations in exchange rates on the interbank currency market FOREX, the picture does not show what the rate is, either the pound against the US dollar, or the euro against the US dollar ... It doesn’t matter, to summarize - it's just some kind of financial fluctuation course. It can be stocks of any thread of companies, any thread of derivatives or options. The chart is depicted in the so-called "Japanese" candles, which are more informative than the charts in other forms. Look at the chart - see the "red candles" and the "green candles"? In short, the day begins - the first bid price in these days (first deal purchase / sale in these days) is either the lower or upper border of the candle (at the beginning of the trading day it is still unknown). The trading day ends, the last quotation forms the second border of the candle. Depending on how the last transaction ended the trading day - higher ( the price for this day has risen) or lower (the price has fallen for the day) from the price of the first transaction for that day (usually GMT) - the “candle” will turn either red (closing price is lower than the opening price of the trading day, that is, for this day the price has fallen) either in green (the opening price is lower than the closing price). The tails on the top and bottom of the candlestick are extreme deals (price records for this day). The edge of the lower tail is the lowest price for this day, the edge of the upper tail is the top Ny price for this day (do not confuse with the price of the first transaction for this day). So it turns out the "Japanese candle." All other images in the W.ebdo.g chart are just accessories of the so-called. "technical analysis". See a straight navy line just below the graph? This is the so-called "support line". That is, the extreme values ​​of trading for a certain period lie exactly on a straight line - and this line becomes a border if the quotation goes down and breaks it (on the chart it ends in a reversal, the chart moves up from the support line and starts to unfold) - then the quote will break further It’s low that there’s not enough space on the agrarian (I exaggerate). The rest of the things on the chart are green and red lines, the line with arrows below is all sorts of mathematically averaged quotes, in short, also to help “technical analysis”. The main purpose of technical analysis is to predict where the course will go and, depending on this, play either downward (become a “bear”, according to slang of American brokers, or, politically correct, brokers) or upward (become a bull, on the same slang) and, if possible, profit from fluctuations in exchange rates.
              In short, I explained, I proved that I’m not so narrow-minded as those who argue with me here, but there are enough pluses, and then draw your own conclusions. I made my conclusions - I hate narrow-minded, but at the same time categorical and throaty, and about my narrow-mindedness people who are also convinced that they are right. Ammunition, I remember it. I’m not vindictive, if anything, I’m just angry and I have a good memory. Before you enter into an argument with me, you need to read a lot and know a lot, he dared to do otherwise, just with his throat and just populist things (like the urine of those who are at least somewhat against Russia and the Russians) to argue - okay, let's see.
              1. Vasilić
                Vasilić 7 July 2013 01: 25 New
                0
                in fact, it’s invisible that it’s a daylight candle or a monthly or even 10 minute candlestick ... you can choose many variations ... you can even look at the changes without candles
                ..for what only you decided to paint all this - almost incomprehensibly)
                although this is only because of my narrow-mindedness it is not clear ...
              2. sergey261180
                sergey261180 7 July 2013 02: 09 New
                +1
                Quote: sergey261180
                What kind of schedule is this?

                - It is not entirely clear why W.ebdo.g brought this schedule. This is the most common chart of fluctuations in exchange rates on the interbank currency market FOREX

                As I understand it, this is a post from the category: "there is no time to explain, put a cucumber in the ass!" In short, for complete idiots who never read or delve into, put up a picture with the caption "Putin is right, scientifically proven." By the way, ministers from the government use the same technique. For example, Zurabov also argued for pension reform. Or they also joined the WTO. One feels a school of crooks and thieves however.
    5. SASCHAmIXEEW
      SASCHAmIXEEW 5 July 2013 14: 13 New
      +2
      Not a mess, but a planned collapse of everything that we have that is significant and valuable, and the Jewish-Zionist government, led by the "main Zionist" mendel, does it !!!
      1. Yarosvet
        Yarosvet 5 July 2013 18: 20 New
        -4
        Quote: SASCHAmIXEEW
        led by the "chief Zionist" mendel !!!

        Part 3 of Article 80 and paragraphs a), e) of Article 83 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation.
    6. krasin
      krasin 5 July 2013 17: 35 New
      +2
      Strange ... Although almost from the very moment I found myself in the chair, the minister stubbornly insisted on the need to urgently reform the scientific system of Russia, building it in the American way and likeness, putting it on business rails. Moreover, Dmitry Livanov and Deputy Prime Minister Olga Golodets, confirming that the reform project is “somewhat unfinished,” continue to insist on its early adoption. At the same time, truly enchanting arguments are cited: until the bill has taken legal force, the scientific community will worry, and after the law enters into force, the same scientific community will cease to worry ...

      In this regard, the statements of Livanov about the fact that “this is not me, this is someone else” look unintelligible and look more like a blatant lie.

      There is no sponsor of the draft reform; nobody wants to admit it. The State Department again lowered the reform in a mess! belay
      The Russian Academy of Sciences itself has reform plans, moreover, these plans are much more productive for the scientific community than those about which news came from government offices.

      In principle, it’s wise to create a commission with representatives of the Russian Academy of Sciences, and failure, because The RAS is ready for reform. But all requests must be jointly sucked. We don’t need to - as always - it’s good already. soldier
    7. mole
      mole 5 July 2013 18: 40 New
      +1
      Not a mess!
      Share the dough!
      Sadly, in this insinuation of RosNano, nobody seems to be asking academicians. I hope that, ACADEMICIANS, are much smarter than ordinary people. They are able to calculate several years in advance. Let them offer, but only THEM is not audible. Most of the population believes the REAL intellectual elite of the country! ACADEMICIANS and businessmen themselves must understand one simple thing, those who have not contributed to the strengthening of the State should not be able to express their opinion on any TV or Radio Russia channel. Nobody seems to encroach on freedom of speech! Everything seems to be within the framework of political correctness. Although here, like a revolution is planned !? "Orange" soldier Do not pass!
      1. afire
        afire 5 July 2013 22: 11 New
        -1
        there is definitely something wrong with this issue, if the President told Fortov it is necessary, then the correct course of events is already in Putin’s head, and Fortov does not understand this. I think that by allowing Livanov to carry out this reform, Putin is trying to catch him in a jamb and throw him out under a certain pretext and for the cause, and only then Fortov will do everything in a calm atmosphere and he will have a full carte blanche. probably.... winked
    8. Kite
      Kite 8 July 2013 13: 30 New
      0
      Quote: Stefano
      In a word, a mess !!!

      yes mess! Moreover, this applies to the Russian Academy of Sciences to a greater extent, they have been talking about the need for reforms for a long time, but are in no hurry to do it. It is good that besides the RAS there are other scientific organizations, there is something to compare with. There are federal research centers, for example: VNIIEF, VNIITF, there is university and departmental science. There is no need to mourn Russian science (not all of it is in the RAS), it is necessary to compare where things are going more successfully, to draw conclusions about what to do with the RAS.
  2. Ruslan67
    Ruslan67 5 July 2013 08: 35 New
    16
    Now they sort of sorted out the MO on the RAS line. It reminds me of administrative delight. what fool
    1. Furnace driver
      Furnace driver 5 July 2013 08: 54 New
      17
      Quote: Ruslan67
      Marshal
      Ruslan67 (3) RU Today, 08:35 AM New

      Now they sort of sorted it out with the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Academy of Sciences It reminds me of administrative delight -And what else would we reform into the trash what fool

      what’s what, Rogozin won’s going to reform Roscosmos - he transfers all FSUEs to JSC ...
      and, in general, recent actions by Putin and Co. to privatize Roscosmos, the defense industry; the destruction of the RAS, the pursuit of education will only intensify popular protest. Now I’m afraid that many will be ready to go out and start wetting this presumptuous elite, in spite of its impressive protection - to wet, soak ... in the toilet, even snipers, the number of which is increased to combat street riots, will not help.
    2. Vadivak
      Vadivak 5 July 2013 09: 02 New
      13
      Quote: ....
      Another clearly ill-conceived reform emerged in the field of Russian science.


      Very well thought out according to the worked out scheme, reform, scandal, investigation, amnesty
      1. Mr.
        Mr. Gambu4aS 5 July 2013 09: 21 New
        +7
        Hmm, and with all this mess we’re still climbing into all sorts of Syria, we would have to put things in order at home, so there’s no leadership of the country filling its voices on foreign policy, while “cutting up” everything that has remained untouched by the liberals inside the country, with this approach sometimes I want to say - burn with a blue flame!
      2. vadimN
        vadimN 5 July 2013 11: 35 New
        14
        And note - all the “reforms” have one scheme:
        - the creation of new management structures;
        - revision of property;

        In simple words: spawn officials and give them something to steal.
        These limited individuals cannot even come up with anything more original.
      3. Karlsonn
        Karlsonn 5 July 2013 12: 44 New
        10
        Quote: Vadivak
        Very well thought out according to the worked out scheme, reform, scandal, investigation, amnesty

        good
  3. ole
    ole 5 July 2013 08: 36 New
    14
    Education, medicine, police-police, the army, Roscosmos and the political system have already been reformed. Why should I put my hands on? .. Campaign hands are not growing from that place, but it's a pity.
    1. Mikado
      Mikado 5 July 2013 09: 25 New
      12
      The very top is the time to "reform".
      1. Vadivak
        Vadivak 5 July 2013 09: 28 New
        +8
        Quote: Mikado
        The very top is the time to "reform".


        Chop off his tail. Right to the neck
        1. RussianRu
          RussianRu 5 July 2013 11: 19 New
          +4
          Format Liberalists. And start with the NANO Reformer and his deputies, and like-minded people. Maybe after that, then reforms will benefit Russia.
        2. AVV
          AVV 6 July 2013 18: 28 New
          0
          Livanov and his close circle, there will be no need to format and reformat and then reformat !!!
      2. liteha
        liteha 6 July 2013 21: 10 New
        +1
        Aksakal is right about the campaign - more and more extremists on the site - has the owner changed or is the main sponsor?
        1. aksakal
          aksakal 6 July 2013 22: 12 New
          -1
          Quote: liteha
          Aksakal is right about the campaign - more and more extremists on the site - has the owner changed or is the main sponsor?
          - here's how to make such harsh conclusions on the basis of this one-sided publication from Volodin? No one makes an attempt to understand the essence of what is happening, but they already condemn and urge to chop!
          I have noted so far that there has somehow been a lot of “hacking” such hasty ones, and there are few who post that there is not enough information, I will get it, delve into it, think it over, compare it, eat up other smart people, and not just this Volodin, who it is not known who he is and what he is, then I’ll print my IMHO. This is actually done by adequate people. And here they’re already cutting, calling for barricades and distributing cons with might and main. What is happening?
  4. Airman
    Airman 5 July 2013 08: 40 New
    10
    Judging by what was shown on TV, they went into Putin’s office with their opinion, and went out with Putin’s opinion, except for Fortov, who remained unconvinced. Mattresses really don’t like our successes in the military field, so they decided to slow down our scientists. Science is allocated mlds, and someone really needs them, but it’s impossible to pick them up quietly. Another “cut”
  5. Net
    Net 5 July 2013 08: 48 New
    +2
    It seems that the reform is carried out only in order to stop the misuse of state real estate in the jurisdiction of the RAS. Why then talk about a low citation index and the number of publications of scientific articles? Leaving aside claims so far why elite housing is being sold on the lands of the Russian Academy of Sciences, academics must explain why, with an increased level of funding, the number of publications only drops.
  6. riding
    riding 5 July 2013 08: 49 New
    15
    Fortov was worried, because he understood that in the current government there are people who know perfectly well what they want and what they want - they won’t miss. Strange gestures of power are depressing: against the background of patriotic, anti-liberal statements, even we are taking a strictly liberal course, we are turning from a social state into a state of universal desire to consume, we are not planting Serdyukov, because they know at the top what merits a thief should live happily.
    1. KazaK Bo
      KazaK Bo 5 July 2013 09: 40 New
      14
      Quote: koni
      Fortov was worried, because he understood that in the current government there are people who know perfectly well what they want and what they want - they won’t miss.

      Absolutely right! These people in the government knew what they were doing when they proposed reform of the RAS. Yesterday, the Minister of Finance bluntly said ... the economy is falling ... there is not enough money ... you need to scrape somewhere more than a trillion .... privatization urgently needs to be launched ... it will give about a trillion ... and the rest is covered by the National Welfare Fund. .. This was said after the GDP, having met with fierce resistance from the public ... scientists, postponed the final decision of the DUMA for the RAS in the fall ... That is, the sale of real estate of the RAS breaks down in the government-panic. What this means - only one thing - the government of the reformers, for the sake of the reformation, young, but illiterate and without experience, ideas, completely overwhelmed the economy ... there are no incomes ... even taxes are not good ... Now the question arose where to get the money ... found a way out - REAL ESTATE OF SCIENTISTS, SCIENCES!
      Indeed, they reformed so much ... especially in the army, police, police, so they privatized and reformed the economy according to the liberal rules of GAIDAR-YASIN-CHUBAYS-MEDVEDEV that it remained to sell off the latter. I have no words! Only emotions!
      1. The comment was deleted.
    2. fzr1000
      fzr1000 5 July 2013 13: 41 New
      +4
      RAS President Vladimir Fortov told RBC daily correspondent IRINA YUZBEKOVA about why it is impossible to cancel the title of corresponding member and what led to plagiarism in theses.

      - Is a reform of the RAS necessary and what should become its main goal?

      “She is necessary.” The main goal is to improve the conditions for scientists and the quality of scientific work. This is what we set ourselves. We have accumulated quite a few problems, new challenges arise, there is the initiative of the president and his political will to reform our economy, make it modern, get rid of raw material dependence and much more. To do this, the Academy of Sciences must become more dynamic, more modern, active in all respects.

      - A government reform project has the same goals?

      - It’s hard for me to answer meaningfully, because I still can’t find out in any way who the author of the government version is. Every business, as Academician Julius Khariton taught us, must have a surname, name, patronymic. I was surprised to learn that, it turns out, the Ministry of Science and Dmitry Livanov are not related to this project. Therefore, I would very much like to look at its author and ask him the same question that you are asking me.

      - What threatens the abolition of the title of Corresponding Member of the Russian Academy of Sciences and the automatic assignment of the title of academicians to all member-correspondents?

      - The devaluation of this title. We will have a lot of academics who did not get the title for their work, but as a result of a certain law. Nobody chose them, no one evaluated their scientific level, no one made an analysis of their scientific and other merits. And suddenly, with a stroke of the pen, people began to possess a high rank. I don’t understand why to do this, I want to look at the author of this project.

      - Now Russian science is based on a system of dedicated research institutes. American relies on a system of universities. What can happen if Russia starts to implement the American model, and how does this threaten the RAS?

      - Nothing good will come of it, although it does not threaten the RAS, because we are not afraid of competition. Winning them is not a question for us. But in order to switch to the American model, one must first become as rich as the Americans.
      1. fzr1000
        fzr1000 5 July 2013 13: 41 New
        +3
        - Do you think that the level of Russian science can still compete with the American?

        - Of course. This shows an objective comparison. We have areas in which we stand very firmly on our feet. Physics is very highly developed, space science ... At the beginning of the zero years there was an attempt to discredit science and scientists. Today, this topic is starting to sound with us again.

        - Is it connected with plagiarism in dissertations?

        - No, with dissertations a natural thing turned out. Previously, there was a system of defense and control over dissertations, it was taken and broken. And now we wonder why there were fake dissertations. Yes, they could not appear!

        - How effective is the Soviet model of the academy?

        - It was effective in that it was adequately funded, it clearly expressed the democratic systems of organization of scientific work - freedom of creativity, competitiveness and much more, which is the basis for the development of basic research around the world. Refusing this model would be criminal, although I know many people who want just that. Criticism of this model began earlier, and now it is being abandoned.

        - Have there been such large-scale reforms in the history of the RAS in previous centuries?

        - No, it was not. There were attempts to destroy the RAS when Trofim Lysenko soloed on stage, there were attempts to discredit and destroy genetics and cybernetics, and many more shameful pages from which the academy always came out with honor.

        - How do you assess the introduction of the state body for managing the Academy’s property and financial flows?

        - I have an alternative point of view. I am not against state control, we have created controlling organizations, and I am surprised that this issue is on the agenda. If there are complaints, come and check, and if you find a violation - punish. But to transfer this to science, which is a completely different field of human activity, is very short-sighted, even primitive.

        - How can the Proton-M catastrophe affect the fate of the academy?

        - This is not an indicator of the functioning of the RAS, because the accident happened at the first stage, which was developed and flies a very long time ago. The Academy of Sciences took part in the development, as in all space construction, but this is not connected with the work of the Academy of Sciences in any way.
        1. aksakal
          aksakal 6 July 2013 22: 18 New
          0
          Quote: fzr1000
          I have an alternative point of view. I am not against state control, we have created controlling organizations, and I am surprised that this issue is on the agenda. If there are complaints, come and check, and if you find a violation - punish. But to transfer this to science, which is a completely different field of human activity, is very short-sighted, even primitive.

          - here is a balanced and adequate post of the brow! Reforms are needed, but what kind of reforms are these? Let’s discuss and think here!
          But the subject itself and the posts against which I began to protest - complete crap! "Everywhere enemies and cut, forward to the barricades and their urine!" - and not a word about the case or the essence of these reforms! Why are there so many riffraffers on the site in alcoholic T-shirts?
  7. fzr1000
    fzr1000 5 July 2013 09: 02 New
    +2
    The opinion of Andrei Geim, a Nobel laureate, an interview with him I recently published here.

    “This situation excites everyone. And this is not about the fate of academics, but about the fate of Russian science. I am not worried about the academicians, their work will only come closer to Western standards. I was expecting some kind of similar decision soon - after all, the reorganization of the RAS was long overdue. What bothers me most is this new agency (Property Management Agency, RAS). It will play a key role in the fate of Russian science, but we have not received any details about it.

    I expected Livanov and Medvedev to be smarter.

    The first thing they had to do was to attract ordinary scientists to their side. This is a big, big political mistake! This law will push away even ardent supporters of the reform of the Russian Academy of Sciences and transfer them directly to the camp of the "old guard".

    If I could give advice to Medvedev and Livanov, I would offer two things. Firstly, this agency should be led by people familiar with research activities. And secondly, a gradual but significant increase in the funding of science over the next decade is needed. These two conditions will have to be fulfilled anyway, otherwise forget about becoming a developed country! And this is not even mentioned now.

    There are many talented managers at the institutes of the Russian Academy of Sciences. Livanov himself can be an example of those who could stand at the helm of a new agency. Just give good scientists the opportunity to do good science, and good managers to help them. But do not let the cart in front of the horse. I still hope that the new bill serves a good purpose, but it’s done very poorly. I would rather wait for the situation to develop before despairing until we get all the information. Political appointees simply cannot manage science - everywhere in the West it is a self-organizing and self-governing system. ”

    Despite the scream among academicians, I do not plan and cannot leave my post (Honorary Chairman of the Public Council under the Ministry of Education and Science).

    The reform of the RAS has just begun. It began with what it should have been, with the reform of the power of academics. I have already said many times that the academy should become an elite club of scientists, and not a club of leaders with academic degrees. Livanov’s bill is designed to solve this problem. Be that as it may, bombing the RAS does not mean saving Russian science. The completion of its reform at this first stage will be a disaster for Russia. We need to wait for new steps by the government. The most urgent and difficult step is the organization of this agency to manage institutions. And this is where Livanov can break firewood or prove himself.

    I believe that the Max Planck Society in Germany can be a good model for these reforms.

    I am familiar with the work of his system quite well, almost becoming the director of one of the institutes several years ago. This model is very different from the work of the RAS, despite the legends spread out by some academics that the RAS is very reminiscent of the Max Planck Society. ”
    1. SASCHAmIXEEW
      SASCHAmIXEEW 5 July 2013 14: 29 New
      +1
      Each institution has a deputy. for households, That's the whole tale of mendel ...
  8. fzr1000
    fzr1000 5 July 2013 09: 03 New
    +3
    Michael Atiyah, mathematician, winner of the Fields Prize (1966) and Abel Prize (2004), President of the Royal Scientific Society (2000-2005)

    “I hear with some concern about proposals for the future of the Russian Academy of Sciences. It is possible that there are some reasonable reasons behind this, but to me they are completely, if any, not visible. For centuries and political events in Russian history, mathematicians continued to work, and the Academy of Sciences maintained independence.

    It would be a tragedy for Russia and for the rest of the world if this great historical tradition came to an end. ”

    Pierre Deligne, mathematician, winner of the Fields Prize (1978), Abel Prize (2013)

    “I was saddened by the news of the planned destruction of the Russian Academy of Sciences, produced without contact with the scientific community. Even if it had some kind of good intentions, it would lead to disastrous consequences for the already difficult and difficult situation with science in Russia. I can only guess about the goals that the government would like to achieve here. ”

    Carlo Doloni, President of the Italian Geological Society

    “In my memory, such a treatment with the academies of sciences was only once, in Italy, during the time of Mussolini, when he closed the academy.

    After the war, it was restored. Our Russian colleagues have an outstanding scientific reputation. Their election to the RAS is held according to the highest standards of such procedures. We in Italy have great respect for the scientific community of Russia, and for the sake of the well-being of your great nation, I firmly support the deep concern of the members of the Russian Academy of Sciences and hope that you can stop the elimination of one of the largest communities of scientists. "
  9. fzr1000
    fzr1000 5 July 2013 09: 03 New
    +2
    European Association for Theoretical Informatics (President Luca Aseto)

    “Our colleagues from the Russian Academy of Sciences informed us that last Thursday the Russian government unexpectedly approved the bill on the liquidation of the Academy of Sciences (formed in 1724) and that it could be urgently adopted this week. Moreover, we were told that this project was proposed without any participation of two councils (science council and public council) created by the Ministry of Education and Science specifically for consultations with the scientific community. We do not want to go into the details of this plan, but we express serious concern about its adoption.

    Since its foundation, the Russian Academy of Sciences has remained one of the leading research organizations in the world and a subject of special pride for Russia. We emphasize that changes in the structure and leadership of such a well-deserved and productive scientific organization, even when they look so necessary, must be carried out with the utmost care and full involvement of the scientific community, and not through decisions made in a hurry by parliament.

    Advanced science is done by scientists, and for the normal operation of any scientific organization, it is important that scientists participate in its management.

    All this is important as nothing else for an organization as important and worthy as the Russian Academy of Sciences.

    We sincerely hope that the Russian government will recognize the importance of the Russian Academy of Sciences for the country and its future and will review plans for their accelerated adoption, which could have very negative consequences for Russian science. We hope that this inconsiderate lawmaking will not destroy the scientific environment built up for centuries by Russian scientists. ”
  10. fzr1000
    fzr1000 5 July 2013 09: 04 New
    +2
    Message from a group of leading scientists working in Russia, to Vladimir Putin and the State Duma

    “Dear Mr. President, dear gentlemen, deputies,
    We, the undersigned foreign scientists and compatriot scientists working in Russia, clearly see the need for a thoughtful and profound reform of Russian science. However, the proposed reform of the Russian Academy of Sciences and other academies raises deepest concerns for the future not only of the academy itself with an almost 300-year history, but also of the entire system of academic institutes and laboratories, and especially about the future of young scientists working in this system. Despite the overdue reform, the Russian Academy of Sciences remains the main scientific institution in Russia. Among all Russian scientists with a citation index of more than 1000, two-thirds work in the institutes of the current RAS, and more than 400 of these scientists are its members.

    The haste of the proposed law and the lack of open discussion of it are extremely alarming, since it can lead to a new destructive blow to science in Russia.

    We urge you
    1) suspend the planned reform;
    2) provide time for discussion of the reform with the participation of the government and the reformed academies;
    3) carry out a comprehensive, thoughtful and transparent reform within 12-18 months - a reform that will receive the support of the Russian and international scientific community and ensure the productive work of the Russian Academy of Sciences and its institutes.
    We also propose the creation of an independent advisory council from among respected scientists and representatives of the scientific communities, which could provide advisory assistance in the process of preparing and implementing the reform.

    Газета.ру
    1. dmb
      dmb 5 July 2013 12: 59 New
      +9
      Dear foreign scientists and compatriots. What are you talking about some reforms there? Who told you. that something and someone will reform. It was clearly explained to you fools that the guys are unhappy with how much land and buildings you have for the construction of new banks, offices and cottage villages, and they are not all attached yet. And therefore do not yell, take your pieces of paper with formulas, and do not paw any synchrophasotrons there. They say gold contacts, but copper wire is now also in price. Hello, forever your Guarantor Vova.
  11. Z.A.M.
    Z.A.M. 5 July 2013 09: 06 New
    +6
    "At the same time, President Putin gave the impression of a man, who knows in advancethat there should be a reform (in its governmental version), and that all mental throwings of the RAS academicians on this issue should be excluded. " This is a quote from the article.
    And I think that it determines the current and past attitude of Putin towards "somehow"emotional throwing (as it is precisely said!) of the entire Russian people, in all areas:" PS Education, medicine, police-police, the army, Roscosmos and the political system have already been reformed. Why put your hands up? .. "

    We can arbitrarily, and discuss anything, argue, disagree ... there is something right laughing Balabolte you (we) what you want, let off steam ...
    And in real life, having heard the phrase: "Public opinion will be against", another bureaucrat, having copied Putin's contemptuous arrogant half-smile, slowly, slowly, will bow his head and put greasy saliva from his mouth, and then rub it with his foot on the floor. Slowly ...
    I see this attitude towards the people and their aspirations.

    PS Today will be the second reading in the State Duma. Isn't it, the speed of adoption of DEFINED bills is astounding ... (The recent amnesty law, all three readings took place in one day!) If it weren’t for the “holidays” wassat gosdurdomovtsev, I think in a week or two would have accepted this one.
    Although, maybe there is a reason in the postponement - by the fall a lot of water will flow away, a lot will settle down, other problems will appear. Or us, i.e. public opinion, intentionally distracting with something ...
    Oh yes, I forgot. After all, I already suggested WHAT such a public opinion.
    1. papss
      papss 5 July 2013 09: 23 New
      +3
      At the same time, President Putin gave the impression of a man who knows ahead of time that there should be a reform (in its governmental version), and that all sincere throwings of the RAS academicians on this issue should be excluded.
      but how could it be otherwise ... he knows everything and everything through him and after contacts with him ... passes ...
      Today will be the second reading in the State Duma.
      , we’ll see everything will pass, it will be okay and the law will be adopted ... And by the way, the moment showed that only the Communist Party of the Russian Federation is the real opposition ... It was interesting to look at Zhirinovsky, told on the air how Livanov came and campaigned for the adoption of the bill, and then refused his authorship. And at the same time ... struck out - the bill will be passed... everything is decided by everyone ...
  12. ed65b
    ed65b 5 July 2013 09: 20 New
    +4
    And in reality: it is necessary to save not only the property of the RAS, as it already was with the property of the Ministry of Defense, but also the academicians themselves, many of whom have already stated that they are not going to work under the command of the Ogurtsovs.

    I am afraid that the Property of the RAS has already been divided, the money has been distributed, the academicians have been replaced. The patient is more likely dead than alive. thus ended the era of the Russian-Soviet-Russian RAS.
  13. Asgard
    Asgard 5 July 2013 09: 22 New
    18
    Patriot Putin acts as a national "leader" ...derbanite Russia)))).
    Not a single state program yielded any results (not a single one))))
    The law on the state reserve is written by no one knows where the countries are listed in Russian, but not alphabetically, but in Latin (stupid translation))) stupidly signed by the patriotic president .....
    ... they say the money is best stored in the Fed, in the USA, with our ENEMIES .....
    and as he said - “we didn’t earn them” (Putin quote)))
    Agriculture, even under WTO law, could have received support of $ 9 billion this year, received somewhere -0,8 billion ......
    Education (the best in the world)) was so reformed that only de.bill didn’t laugh .... though there are less and less laughs, but de..bil))))))
    A bridge to nowhere (to Russky Island))) for 200 cars a day and enough money has been spent for construction throughout the country (in each settlement there are FAPs, feldsher points))
    And we have reduced the hospital, we recently closed THREE ,,,,, across the country the same thing))
    And so in everything .....

    Fortov was elected a year ago, and he walks I.O. since not approved by presidential decree ....

    What is this telling us ... understanding?
    Laws are written for a country somewhere on the side, since the personalities shown on TV (including "himself")) are not capable of anything .....
    just sign ..... without reading, bringing to PEOPLE only opinion those who REALLY GOVERNS THE GOVERNMENT OF RUSSIA)))
    and those de.bilov that are shown on the telly, they even reasonably cannot formulate their opinions ... (they will be wasted)))

    No, not People are in power ... JUDAH.
    Although some will say that this is a "special case")))) not typical of the country's top leadership)))
    remember the amnesty for economic crimes)))) In the zones they call her Taburetkina-skoshuha))))

    All for the good of our Motherland)) of its individual citizens))) at the expense of our lives ....
    1. Z.A.M.
      Z.A.M. 5 July 2013 09: 54 New
      +3
      Quote: Asgard
      No, not People are in power ... JUDAH.

      I completely agree with the comment, and this phrase in particular.
      I can only add that these JUDAS make all their decisions, no - SOUND - with contemptuously arrogant half-smiles. Like Putin.
      It even seems to me that every time it is FUNNY to watch people such as Forts, Roshal ... When he listens to them, he probably thinks: “Well, you have to be so frankly naive. Like children.”
      Quote: Asgard
      And so in everything .....
      1. vadimN
        vadimN 5 July 2013 12: 05 New
        +7
        Someone recently wrote a remark on this site about Putin, something like "so let's see how he will react to popular outrage with another" reform "...

        Well, have you looked? Does anyone else have any illusions about a good king and bad boyars? Medvedev, Livanov and others - only voice what Putin has long known and does! He is the main protector of Russia!
    2. Yegorchik
      Yegorchik 5 July 2013 19: 30 New
      +3
      Well done, I subscribe to every word it’s all true, but the media stubbornly builds an image of a knee-lifter that Putin pulled on himself. And to many people it’s impressive that they say what a young man’s cone is. American banks are pumping money from Russian oil, but we don’t see us whether there is an economic sterilization policy. We better take the same money at interest, beautifully calling it foreign investment.
    3. liteha
      liteha 6 July 2013 21: 28 New
      -1
      Asgard and those 21 who plus his post - you have only a part of the information, the rest, what you did not see or prefer not to see and not to voice, is on efedorov.ru.
      And as is commonly believed, part of the truth is already a lie.
  14. xzWhiteWolf
    xzWhiteWolf 5 July 2013 09: 29 New
    -6
    Does it make sense to say that reform is bad or good? Any reform carries both good and bad. The bad can be adjusted on the road. And without reform, they will stand still. Why is this done? Most likely, for scientists to raise salaries and so on, what will entail? We find out.
    A dialogue between the state and scientists shows that they need them and they want to work with them.
  15. Stalin
    Stalin 5 July 2013 09: 36 New
    11
    I generally ceased to understand the latest actions of Putin! What does he want here the second Egypt? Or thinks that the people will endure endlessly these bullying? I tried to scroll through the various options in my head, because if the decision is made so quickly, then someone is vitally interested in this. But who? Suppose that Putin is a patriot, but what does he want to “fuck” by carrying out this reform so that it would be exclusively useful to Russia. Turning the question, I still could not find the answer. Can someone explain? After all, the majority believed Putin after the 2012 elections, including myself, but now I am starting to doubt very much. I really want to believe in Putin, but his last actions make this faith negligible.
    1. Z.A.M.
      Z.A.M. 5 July 2013 10: 14 New
      +6
      Quote: Stalin
      After all, the majority believed Putin after the 2012 elections, including
      laughing laughing laughing These are not evil smiles - I just laugh. I believed back in the 2000th.

      Quote: Stalin
      but now I'm starting to doubt very much
      fellow Do you begin to ripen? I began to doubt, in 2003.

      Quote: Stalin
      but his last actions make this faith negligible.
      lol And here I have - neither FAITH nor TRUST for him, have been around for five years now.

      Quote: Stalin
      Turning the question, I still could not find the answer
      Turn the question on the WTO, on its migrant policy, on its “struggle” laughing with corruption. this is for a start. Look, just don’t break your head. Questions are not logically resolved. Just see who benefits from it.
      Another tip. Comments Asgard read. It is very logical, brief, competent and with real facts, HIS affairs. "Judge of him according to his deeds."
      hi
  16. gleb49
    gleb49 5 July 2013 09: 38 New
    -7
    And if you retire ineffective academics. Maybe they will be replaced by young promising scientists. Maybe the brain drain will stop. The RAS itself will never go for reform.
  17. Gray-haired Siberian
    Gray-haired Siberian 5 July 2013 09: 40 New
    -3
    I did not expect this from the GDP. Surely the bear could have influenced so much. Although, probably, the president has more information than ours.
    1. kris
      kris 5 July 2013 09: 59 New
      11
      Quote: Gray-haired Siberian
      I did not expect this from the GDP. Surely the bear was able to influence so much.

      Do you still believe in a fairy tale about a good put and a bad bear ?! laughing
    2. sashka
      sashka 5 July 2013 11: 00 New
      0
      Sasha RU June 18, 2013 18:57 | Syrian trap
      -------------------------------------------------- ------------
      Quote: homosum20
      Yes, Putin has amers - a bone in his throat. She must not be allowed to be pulled out. Putin must not be allowed to leave.
      ------------------------------------------------------------

      ..Yes, where did you get the idea that Pu was at least someone or something? There is no one to call .. BbP. Oddly enough, the Bear rules. God save Russia ..
      -------------------------------------------------- ------------
      --- I pulled out my koment over the past month. And what is wrong?
      ------------------------------------------------------------
      1. baltika-18
        baltika-18 5 July 2013 12: 56 New
        +6
        Quote: Sasha
        -I pulled out my koment over the past month. And what is wrong?

        Right of course.
        Quote: Sasha
        Oddly enough, the Bear rules.

        The error is only here. They do not rule, they rule, both Medvedev and Putin.
  18. pensioner
    pensioner 5 July 2013 09: 50 New
    +4
    Alexey, thanks! I watched a passage yesterday about this meeting ... Fortov made a strange impression on me. He cannot defend the interests of scientists, he cannot ... There is no core. Not Vavilov and not Alexandrov.
    1. fzr1000
      fzr1000 5 July 2013 10: 16 New
      +6
      Not everyone can beat the GDP, but what they showed on TV is just an excerpt. As there was actually only these two and know.
  19. Grbear
    Grbear 5 July 2013 09: 58 New
    +2
    Gentlemen, you do not notice that at least 3 aspects are closed on the reform of the RAS:
    Economic. Good money is spinning in science, despite "underfunding." It is no secret that there are a lot of abuses in the system of science, and it is a rather closed structure (strangers don’t go here or "What do you understand in science !?"). To instruct them to treat themselves - ask the patient for health.
    Defense capability. The decline in the return on fundamental science directly affects the defense industry. But the age and lack of ambition, the academic background (s) of academicians with an established life, become an active brake.
    Political. The decline in the prestige of the Russian Academy of Sciences in the world is a loss of respect in general terms, including the enemy military. Therefore, the latter begin to introduce this element into their calculations.

    Total Light stroking and persuasion, such a colossus as the RAS, do not shake. Need such a crack so that the ringing goes. It did not seem to me that the GDP did not understand that the reform was "crude." He simply created an urgent need, limited in time, to intensify the actions of the academicians themselves in reform, keeping its course under control (a decree and all). Screams like "Do not meddle, ignoramus", etc. do not roll. Do you want to live, let’s give back. Otherwise, feed vinipuh.
    So far, somehow.
    1. Z.A.M.
      Z.A.M. 5 July 2013 10: 40 New
      +5
      Quote: GrBear
      Need such a crack so that the ringing goes.

      At first, I reacted positively to the commentary; the aspects are correct. But the conclusion ...
      Ringing, say ... But the "bell" will NOT CRACK?
      Quote: GrBear
      Rather, it is a tough resuscitation, such as a defibrillator.
      Well, the economy has already been DEFENSE - WTO. The patient is more likely dead than alive.
      Education, not like a crack, such pees ... were given that
      Quote: Asgard
      Education (the best in the world)) was so reformed that only de.bill didn’t laugh .... though there are less and less laughs, but de..bil))))))


      "Shock therapy," you say? Passed by.

      Quote: GrBear
      So it's too early to talk about funerals

      You, if you are talking about your funeral, now. Then you will not tell ALREADY laughing (This is an example)
      So it is with science ...
  20. borisjdin1957
    borisjdin1957 5 July 2013 10: 00 New
    +9
    from the Don.
    It seems to me that in recent years, the GDP has begun to enter! The reforms carried out in the country only immerse the country deeper and deeper into the swamp! , -: Everything is fine, beautiful marquise!: IMPUNITY is the main reason for all our troubles!
  21. Grbear
    Grbear 5 July 2013 10: 16 New
    0
    However, having looked at the scanty report on the meeting of the two presidents, it seemed that Vladimir Fortov understood who he was dealing with and in the final moment looked puzzled, but not without hope in his eyes. So, it's too early to talk about funerals. Rather, it is a tough resuscitation, such as a defibrillator.
    1. Mr.
      Mr. Gambu4aS 5 July 2013 10: 45 New
      +5
      In my opinion this is the last nail in the lid of the coffin of education, the exam was the last but one!
  22. sashka
    sashka 5 July 2013 10: 39 New
    0
    Somehow I wrote koment that steers DaM and Pu on the "grab" .. Now it’s obvious .. What an iPhone player has in mind is the President’s Decree .. Skolkovo, reform of the Army, renaming of one d-ma to the d-th, and Nano didn’t teach anything .. Where is Da PPC ... And the president likes it. Paradox
    1. Karabin
      Karabin 5 July 2013 12: 43 New
      +3
      Quote: Sasha
      steers DaM and Pu on the "catch".

      Quote: Sasha
      What's on the iPhone on the mind is from the President's Decree.

      Well, if you continue to fantasize ... then the divorce from the filing of DAM. If the president does not have a wife, then the prime minister’s wife becomes the first lady. wink
      1. Yarosvet
        Yarosvet 5 July 2013 18: 52 New
        +2
        Quote: Karabin
        If the president does not have a wife, then the prime minister’s wife becomes the first lady. wink

        Not - that's how it really was laughing
        1. KG_patriot_last
          KG_patriot_last 5 July 2013 21: 27 New
          0
          Normal male reaction. Yes, even if he had a whole harem, he would have regained it anyway. In his place, I would drool on the floor and drool wink fool fellow
  23. Konsmo
    Konsmo 5 July 2013 10: 50 New
    +5
    Fortov was shown on the TV, with his comrades there was a wall of people behind him for 75. It would be good to carry out certification and what they did for the Homeland over the past 20 years.
    It is necessary to give children work after institutes at the age of 25-30. Give premises, equipment, grants if the State is interested in this area. The faculty and academic staff should act as youth consultants. Well, he can head one laboratory. Now management is sitting on the money under the control of dozens of labs. where graduate students and young scientists work for 7, and even the equipment is not normal. But if work is expected to return money and patents, Academics are on the list in the first role, even if they have not entered the lab for a year.
    1. Albert1988
      Albert1988 5 July 2013 11: 26 New
      +2
      You’re big +, the academy hasn’t been young for a long time, it’s also sad that many young and very high-class specialists are denied even the core member, and they still take old people or “godfathers” (
    2. viktorR
      viktorR 5 July 2013 13: 02 New
      +3
      It would be interesting to look at the 25-year-old academicians ... Although with such reforms I feel I will soon see ...
      1. Albert1988
        Albert1988 5 July 2013 18: 46 New
        0
        Well 25 is a bust, but 35-40 is quite wink
  24. PValery53
    PValery53 5 July 2013 10: 59 New
    +7
    Reform without taking into account the opinions of venerable academics and young scientists is doomed to failure. Under a dictate over them, scientists will either leave the Academy or leave the country. In this case, the level of science in Russia will fall very low. Official chaos (with impunity) always brings evil. Rulers need to find a wise approach to the academic community, cherish them, and not wield them like an Elephant in a china shop. Before the intellectual elite, one must bow down, not "catch up" with it.
  25. fenix57
    fenix57 5 July 2013 11: 01 New
    +3
    Quote: Povshnik
    Judging by what was shown on TV, they went into Putin’s office with their opinion, and went out with Putin’s opinion,

    Judging by who and how is located in his chair ... And the proposal from the GDP to the head of the Russian Academy of Sciences disarmed the latter .... And that was it! hi
  26. serge
    serge 5 July 2013 11: 21 New
    +7
    The fact that the reform of the Russian Academy of Sciences is being dragged through by an outspoken enemy of the Russian people of Livanov (one hundred percent Jewish surname, by the way), suggests that this is another sabotage. Under the cries of Snowden and the fight against homosexuals, the State Duma has already dragged the law on Internet bans and is pushing the law on the destruction of Russian science.
    They work purely American, under a smokescreen and under the cries of what patriots they are.
    1. Yarosvet
      Yarosvet 5 July 2013 18: 56 New
      +2
      Quote: serge
      one hundred percent Jewish surname, by the way
  27. Albert1988
    Albert1988 5 July 2013 11: 24 New
    +6
    My opinion as a young scientist is that the academy needs to be reformed. The question is HOW to reform it, and who will eventually dispose of the property after the reform. I have already written a lot in comments to previous articles on this topic that corruption is rampant among academics, but the main problem of modern Russian science is not even this but excessive bureaucracy. Scientists are not so much distracting property management from scientific work, as the design of 100500 all kinds of pieces of paper. + Dkracey laws such as FZ 94 (if I remember his number correctly) according to which almost toilet paper should be bought at tenders, not to mention other reagents. A tender is red tape for half a year and always buying low-quality goods (it can’t cost a good reagent!). So it is necessary to reform, but, as they correctly said here, to do everything taking into account the opinions of the scientists themselves. But it seems that the Duma did not miss the law in its current form, so we (scientists) hope that we will be heard)
  28. Vtel
    Vtel 5 July 2013 11: 26 New
    0
    Today I was surprised to find that the author does not have a document either. Livanov says that he did not even stand behind the backs of those who wrote the draft, says academician Fortov.

    In how, his EGE already got everyone, but here, after all, the Russian Academy of Sciences - he was hanging around the door.
    “Better to do than not to do,” President Putin announced.

    I agree - "Better to do better than not do anything"
  29. bubla5
    bubla5 5 July 2013 11: 31 New
    +3
    I don’t understand everything, with what speed is the type of discussion and adoption of health and education reforms going on, then the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the army, now science and pensions, and most importantly nowhere to see the point, scribbled economists ’skippers — one ruined everything in 100 days, now destroy the last because the idiot is clear - you want prosperity and prosperity in the country - you need to reduce or at least keep energy prices, and we have a growth from a drunk from 60 kopecks to 3r45 kopecks per kW, gasoline from 6 rubles 92 to 27 rubles
    1. My address
      My address 5 July 2013 13: 18 New
      +2
      Lawyers will quietly bypass economists in the milk industry, and the head of government is a lawyer. In my youth, if someone did not even take economistically a stupidity, and did not want to work, they went to lawyers. And already those lawyers taught DAME, the result is obvious. Of course, there are also good lawyers, but as an exception to the rule.
      1. smile
        smile 5 July 2013 17: 50 New
        +1
        My address
        In your youth - you are probably older than me, I entered the university at the law faculty in a competition of 11 people per place (I’m 71) ... a lot of idiots and lazy people gathered, is not it?
        In Soviet times (60-80s) lawyers were trained at the highest level.
        By the way, four from the course died ... and not in an accident ...
        This is now, when a “battalion” of lawyers is released in the region for a couple of vacancies a year - with their level-byad ... by the way, they are produced mainly by slurred offices that bred in the 90s .... these are definitely to be closed so that they do not produce .... and close ... can you imagine what op stands for killing science?
        1. My address
          My address 5 July 2013 23: 02 New
          +2
          Competition says little. I entered physics at a competition about 4, I do not remember exactly. But I remember a bunch of medalists. Normal people did not go to this physics. I also remember the first exam - written mathematics, where there were triples and overwhelmed more than half. Of the three (or four?) Tasks, I remember two. At the vertices of an equilateral triangular prism are located adjoining equal balls, find the radius of the inscribed ball. To solve the trigonometric series, the rows in the school did not pass, it was necessary to guess to multiply by the sine. Simply put, cut off without spatial thinking, standard-minded and "burned out". Similarly, it was on oral mathematics and physics.
          I got excited about lawyers, for example, I respect the former city prosecutor for his honesty and intelligence. But I do not respect DAME.
          1. smile
            smile 6 July 2013 12: 06 New
            +1
            My address
            Accepted. According to Dam, I absolutely agree with you. A person with adolescent complexes and infantilism, justifies his passion for all kinds of gadgets, may be worthy in the best case of compassion. but no respect ...
            And you didn’t really hit me with the task - I have long been convinced that, in terms of hardness, I began to overtake both Putka, Chapaya and the Chukchi taken together ... at one time I was preparing to go to the Institute of Nuclear Energy in Obninsk and, I think, would have entered -I took prizes in mathematics and physics at all the olympiads of the Klaipeda district .... in 15-20 years, a classmate asked her son to solve the problems .... and I realized that I forgot what integral is ... degradation of adnak, and swift .... it happens.
  30. Diviz
    Diviz 5 July 2013 11: 32 New
    +1
    Chubais to help themwassat
  31. serge
    serge 5 July 2013 11: 38 New
    +4
    Today I was surprised to find that the document does not have an author either.
    ---------------------------------------
    As always, the law is written in the USA.
    1. Albert1988
      Albert1988 5 July 2013 12: 28 New
      +3
      Quote: serge
      As always, the law is written in the USA.

      Rather, the situation here is like with the infamous movie "Bastards" - the director says that the screenwriter wrote all this garbage to him, and the screenwriter says that the director didn’t shoot everything according to the script)))
  32. aud13
    aud13 5 July 2013 12: 22 New
    +4
    Reforms of course need to be carried out. Especially if it is clear that they are inevitable.
    It most likely concerns the Academy of Sciences. But the following is doubtful. In recent years, so many reforms have been started and not completed, and in some cases these reforms have made it even worse. Examples around:
    - housing and communal services reform
    - pension reform
    - Reform of the Ministry of Defense.
    Therefore, the beginning of the next reform is met by society with a start.
    It seems that just someone wants to implement a business project called the Revolution of the Academy of Sciences, after which all the property of the Academy will smoothly move into the bins of individuals.
    On the example of Serdyukov and the Ministry of Defense, all this is perfectly visible.
    By the way, he sits without work, an excellent academician and a wonderful reformist disappear.
  33. pinecone
    pinecone 5 July 2013 12: 27 New
    +3
    If at the RAS they plan to put together an office on the model of Oboronservis, then for Academservice there are already experienced personnel in the person of fighting friends of the former Minister of Defense. Are they going to let them out so that they can properly prepare for a new job.
  34. SASCHAmIXEEW
    SASCHAmIXEEW 5 July 2013 12: 41 New
    +1
    The business project is called "The collapse of RUSSIA" and it was written in the State Department, and it seems Putin doesn’t want to follow it! Otherwise, he will sign a sentence, so the wood has already been broken above the roof!
    1. Karabin
      Karabin 5 July 2013 15: 18 New
      +3
      Quote: SASCHAmIXEEW
      like Putin doesn't want to follow him!

      Of course he doesn’t want to. His like a sucker constantly deceive ... Either the State Department, then the liberals from his own government, then the Duma, then the officials. And he wipes away tears with one hand, and signs laws with the other. Well, it can not be otherwise. You have to understand.
  35. My address
    My address 5 July 2013 13: 08 New
    +1
    Well, DAM was warming for a place for four years, but he also got pleasure from it! Just see how pleased with yourself! So what else to support his stupidity? Yes, even in science? Where else is a lawyer admitted close to science? What did DAM do good for the country? Economical light bulbs introduced - this is the level of the deputy minister. GDP should be commissioned to make an analysis of the effectiveness of the LADIES, and leave the results in the bout! Or is everything known?
  36. tverskoi77
    tverskoi77 5 July 2013 13: 10 New
    +5
    ShturmKGB
    I think everything will be normal if Pu is in the know about the events of the academy ...

    Pu in the course and Oboronservis and in the course of health care reform and in the course of education reform))) the result is the same everywhere.
  37. Karabin
    Karabin 5 July 2013 13: 13 New
    +6
    Putin gave the impression of a man who knows in advance what reform (in its government version) to be.

    And before that, was it different? Putin has repeatedly expressed satisfaction with the work of the government and has not blocked a single government decision.
    PS Education, medicine, police, police, army, Roscosmos and the political system have already been reformed. Why would you put your hands? ..
    The author forgot to add here the entry into the WTO and the work of state corporations on the right people. Plus article and Volodin too - for his concern about the RAS and everything else (in PS). One question, is it too late to see?
    "Do you remember how it all began ..." (C). The publications a year ago from Mr. Volodin are continuous and unceasing praise of GDP. GDP is not wise and vigorous and does not break firewood, and defeated the orange and lowered the west, and it will deal with scammers. And here on you - PS And there is no inconvenience for the previously spilled oil.
    As there is no inconvenience from the current shadow casting on the bright image of Vladimir Vladimirovich. But this image "fed" the author for so long.
    Or maybe the conjuncture has changed?
  38. Lyokha79
    Lyokha79 5 July 2013 13: 31 New
    +3
    The author kept silent about what Putin said. And he said that the law will be amended taking into account the views and wishes of academics. And here is the latest news: the State Duma has gone on summer vacation postponing the consideration of this law until the fall. During the holidays, consultations will be held on how to make changes. To all alarmists, urgently, take valerian.
    1. Karabin
      Karabin 5 July 2013 15: 11 New
      +1
      Quote: Lyokha79
      urgently, take valerian.

      Approved urgently change the lenses in glasses ... from pink to transparent.
      1. Yegorchik
        Yegorchik 5 July 2013 19: 37 New
        +2
        Unfortunately, this is not a lens; it is a cataract; for 13 years people still did not understand that they were nicely fucked up (bruce) by slipping a pawn instead of a queen.
  39. svoboda1970
    svoboda1970 5 July 2013 13: 49 New
    +3
    Another “effective manager” will come, who will “help” scientists ...

    I'm afraid to even call ...
    Could it be that Serdyukov? belay
    1. Yegorchik
      Yegorchik 5 July 2013 19: 41 New
      +4
      He didn’t, he ruined everything during the energy reform, but he didn’t get as stupid as a stool.
  40. Alex66
    Alex66 5 July 2013 14: 03 New
    +2
    "We are present at the creation of the world dictatorship of the buggers"
    Otherwise, all this rush of reforming the Russian Academy of Sciences, Defense Ministry, Ministry of Internal Affairs ... cannot be explained, it is also difficult to explain the swamp in which the investigation of the Defense Ministry reforms appeared.
    And our military is surprising, unlike the Egyptian, although we have a different situation and our salaries are good, there is something to lose.
  41. ia-ai00
    ia-ai00 5 July 2013 14: 05 New
    +3
    Another clearly ill-conceived reform emerged in the field of Russian science.

    Well, why ill-conceived ?! Obviously VERY thought out! "They didn’t overlook ..., not order ..., urgently need to" help "science!" Only after each “reform” do entire ruins remain from entire industries. And the “leaders” of the reforms are “beyond the Ocean,” and these “leaders” cannot be harmed! - Putin said ...
  42. falcon
    falcon 5 July 2013 14: 11 New
    +4
    The article, of course, is a plus! I would like to draw attention to this - on July 4, the law came into force
    about the amnesty (this year for some reason dedicated to the Independence Day of the United States (I hope that
    by chance) and the thousands of freed up “effective managers” are again ready to work for the “GOOD” of the country. Here is their rich reform experience from the 90s, apparently, using .Well, and RAS?
    They will create JSC "RAS", which will push the budgetary loot for offshore. But what about science? -
    the young scientists will ask. "Know the problems", say the reformers. We WILL SCIENCE OUTSOURCING! By
    more that specialists of the necessary profile are available.
    Sorry for the sarcasm, there are simply no other words ...
  43. JIaIIoTb
    JIaIIoTb 5 July 2013 14: 27 New
    +3
    “They wanted the best, but it turned out as always” V. Chernomyrdin.
    I am afraid that it will be so.
  44. Black
    Black 5 July 2013 14: 38 New
    +2
    The article is definitely a plus. for what would these not taken, the result is always the same.
    RAS needs to be reformed, no words. It is necessary to change the general attitude towards science, to restore the prestige of scientific activity. And not only money matters. But the "reformers" can not believe it. Neither in their good intentions, nor in the result.
  45. Russ69
    Russ69 5 July 2013 14: 50 New
    +3
    It is necessary to reform the Academy, there is also enough gimor.
    The truth is alarming the speed of decision-making, the fact that the reform project has been postponed so far is already normal. And we'll see, on this occasion in the near future there will be a bunch of statements by the scientists themselves, both for and against, and a bunch of proposals. So let's evaluate it then.
  46. Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 5 July 2013 14: 54 New
    +5
    not everything is simple and not everything is visible, as some not everyone says so and others are silent about something, the academics were worried, among other things, about the fact that a huge number of square meters of rented real estate was out of control
  47. honest jew
    honest jew 5 July 2013 14: 57 New
    +5
    Slowly harness, fast ride?

    We’re going for a long time, maybe it's time to change the horses .. then something will change! And then it seems to me that the wrong horses were harnessed ...
    1. hiocraib
      hiocraib 5 July 2013 19: 25 New
      +3
      Quote: honest Jew
      wrong horses harnessed ..

      we have only slaves, and even those in the galleys!
      1. Yarosvet
        Yarosvet 5 July 2013 19: 41 New
        +4
        Quote: hiocraib
        we have only slaves, and even those in the galleys!
  48. serge
    serge 5 July 2013 15: 13 New
    +4
    It seems to be how Russia began to conduct an independent policy. In words. But in fact:
    - entry into the WTO
    - tightening nuts on the Internet
    - destruction of education (Centralized Testing)
    - destruction of science
  49. EGORKA
    EGORKA 5 July 2013 15: 51 New
    +2
    RAS received three years from the president

    http://www.gazeta.ru/science/2013/07/04_a_5412925.shtml

    it seems that the RAS organized shock therapy in such a way .... they gave a discharge so that the academics move
    1. falcon
      falcon 5 July 2013 18: 07 New
      +1
      Quote: EGORKA
      RAS received three years from the president


      I hope, conditionally?
  50. Albert1988
    Albert1988 5 July 2013 18: 53 New
    0
    Well, they’ve already postponed it to the 3rd reading with a bunch of amendments, so my hope is that the opinion of scientists will be taken into account when preparing and conducting the reform. And my suspicion that this reform is also part of Putin’s “plan” for drowning Medvedev is growing stronger: a “provocative” bill is being created that supports Dima with foam at the mouth, the law causes a storm of indignation, a good uncle Vova comes and ruins everything ...
    Py. Sy. Here, the deputy speaker of the Duma, it seems, mentioned that the last reform of the Academy of Sciences was in the 30s. It would be interesting to find out what scientists and society were talking about this reform then, but it’s not open ... Just like that, it’s interesting ...
    1. Karabin
      Karabin 5 July 2013 20: 10 New
      +2
      Quote: Albert1988
      part of Putin’s “plan” for drowning Medvedev

      Why so hard. Putin can learn from his predecessor. EBN "drowned" the premieres, like kittens. And did not bother with multi-paths. laughing
      In general, I’m curious that people who think that Putin wants to take off Medvedev, but cannot. A constitution would have been opened, or something. Another question is whether Putin wants to remove the bear. In all its statements, the GDP claims to be quite pleased with the work of the government. It is strange that for a certain circle of people this does not reach. The notion of conspiracy theories on the verge of idiocy begins.
      1. fzr1000
        fzr1000 5 July 2013 22: 38 New
        -1
        About Putin to remove Medvedev. In no way do I want to say that Putin is all in white, and Medvedev ahhhhhh. But, POSSIBLE, now having removed Medvedev, Putin will make it clear to the West and local Western worshipers in his retinue something that is too early. Well i.e. not yet time. Maybe there is such a probability.
        Well, or everything is simple, banal and bad.
        1. Karabin
          Karabin 5 July 2013 23: 55 New
          +2
          Quote: fzr1000
          to understand the West and local Western worshipers in their retinue something that is too early.

          And yet, what kind of Putin’s main secret is this, that it’s too early to understand the retinue? Just a hint from which area. And then everyone is waiting and loyal enemies and sworn friends. While we are unraveling the secrets, academics, look at that, will scatter.
          1. fzr1000
            fzr1000 6 July 2013 16: 56 New
            0
            I just assumed. "Palace" intrigue and the undercover fight is a very delicate matter. Thinner than the East.
            He wrote at the end that if -no, then everything is pretty running.