Military Review

Italian fleet will not fail!

56



Laughter, as you know, prolongs life, and when it comes to Regia Marina Italiana, life is doubly extended.

An explosive mixture of Italian vitality, negligence and sloppiness can turn into a farce any useful undertaking. There are legends about the Royal Naval Forces of Italy: during the war years Italian sailors achieved a fantastic result - losses fleet exceeded the payroll of the Italian Navy! Almost every Italian ship perished / sank / was captured during his service twice, and sometimes even thrice.

There is no other ship in the world, similar to the Italian battleship Conte di Cavour. For the first time, a formidable battleship was sunk in its anchorage on November 12, 1940 during a British raid aviation on the Navy Taranto. "Cavour" was raised from the bottom and stood the whole war in repair, until it was flooded by its own crew in September 1943 with the threat of capture by German troops. A year later, the Germans raised the battleship, but at the end of the war, the Cavour was again destroyed by Allied aircraft.

The mentioned attack on the naval base of Taranto was a textbook example of Italian punctuality, accuracy and sense of duty. The pogrom in Taranto, perpetrated by British pilots, is comparable in size to Pearl Harbor, but the British took twenty times less effort than the Japanese hawks to attack the American base in Hawaii.

Italian fleet will not fail!

Superstructures of the battleship "Conte di Cavour" look plaintively at us from the water

20 plywood biplanes "Swordfish" in one night smashed to shreds the main base of the Italian fleet, sinking three battleships right on the anchorages. For comparison, in order to “get” the German Tirpitz, hiding in the polar Alten fjord, British aircraft had to make about 700 combat missions (not counting sabotage using mini-submarines).

The reason for the deafening defeat in Taranto is elementary - the industrious and responsible Italian admirals, for unclear reasons, did not properly pull the anti-torpedo network. For which he paid.

Other incredible adventures of the pasta of the Italian sailors look equally nasty:

- the submarine Ondina fell in an unequal struggle with the South African trawlers Protea and the Southern Maid (battle off the coast of Lebanon, July 11 1942);

- the destroyer Sebeniko was boarded by the crew of a German torpedo boat right in the port of Venice 11 on September 1943 of the year - immediately after the surrender of fascist Italy. The former allies threw the Italians overboard, took away the destroyer and, renaming "Sebeniko" to TA-43, used it to protect the Mediterranean convoys until the spring of the year 1945.

- Italian submarine "Leonardo da Vinci" flunked the high-speed 21000-ton airliner "Empress of Canada" off the coast of Africa. There were 1800 people aboard the ship (400 died) - half of which, ironically, were Italian prisoners of war.
(however, the Italians are not alone here - such situations occurred regularly during the Second World War)

etc.


The Italian destroyer "Dardo" meets the end of the war

It is no coincidence that the British are of the opinion: "Italians build ships better than they can fight them."

And the Italians really knew how to build ships - the Italian school of shipbuilding has always been notable for noble swift lines, record speeds and inconceivable beauty and grace of surface ships.

Fantastic battleships of the “Littorio” type are among the best battleships of pre-war construction. Heavy cruisers of the Zara type are a brilliant calculation where all the advantages of the advantageous geographical position of Italy in the middle of the Mediterranean Sea are used (to the point of seaworthiness and autonomy - the native coast is always close). As a result, the Italians succeeded in embodying in the Zar design an optimal combination of security / fire / mobility with an emphasis on heavy armor. The best cruisers of the "Washington" period.

And how can you not remember the Black Sea leader "Tashkent", also built in the shipyards of Livorno! The full stroke of the 43,5 node, and in general, the ship was excellent.


Battleships of the type "Littorio" are firing at the ships of the British squadron (the battle at Cape Spartivento, 1940 year)
Italians achieved a hit in the cruiser "Berwick", seriously damaging the last

Alas, despite the advanced technical equipment, Regia Marina - once the most powerful of the fleets in the Mediterranean, stupidly lost all the battles and turned into ridicule. But was it really so?

Slandered Heroes

The British can joke as much as they want, but the fact remains: in the battles in the Mediterranean, Her Majesty’s fleet lost 137 ships of the main classes and the 41 submarine. Another 111 surface combat units lost allies of Great Britain. Of course, half of them were sunk by German aircraft and submariners Kriegsmarine - but even the remaining part is enough to permanently record the Italian "sea wolves" in the pantheon of great naval warriors.

Among the trophies of the Italians -

- the battleships of Her Majesty "Velient" and "Queen Elizabeth" (undermined by the Italian combat swimmers in the roads of Alexandria). The British themselves classify these losses as constructive total loss. Speaking in Russian - the ship turned into a battered pile of metal with negative buoyancy.
Damaged battleships, one after another, fell to the bottom of the Alexandria Bay and knocked out for a year and a half.

- heavy cruiser "York": sunk by Italian saboteurs with the help of speedboats loaded with explosives.

- light cruisers “Calypso”, “Cairo”, “Manchester”, “Neptune”, “Bonaventcher”.

- dozens of submarines and destroyers under the flags of Great Britain, Holland, Greece, Yugoslavia, Free France, the USA and Canada.

For comparison, during the war years, the Soviet Navy did not sink a single enemy ship larger than a destroyer (in no way reproach Russian sailors - a different geography, conditions and the nature of the theater). But the fact remains - in the asset among the Italian sailors dozens of bright sea victories. So do we have the right to laugh at the achievements, feats and inevitable mistakes of the macaroni?


Battleship HMS Queen Elizabeth on the roads of Alexandria

Submariners brought no less glory to Regia Marina, such as aces like Gianfranco Gazzana Priorizha (sank 11 transports with total w / 90 000 tons) or Carlo Fezia di Cossato (16 trophies). In total, a galaxy of the ten best Italian aces of the underwater war sank over one hundred ships and allied ships with a total displacement of 400 000 tons!


Ac-Submariner Carlo Fezia di Cossato (1908 - 1944)

During the years of World War II, the Italian ships of the main classes made 43 207 sailing into the sea, leaving aft of 11 millions of fire miles. Sailors of the Italian Navy provided wiring for countless convoys in the Mediterranean theater of operations - according to official data, Italian sailors arranged for the delivery of 1,1 million troops and more than 4 million tons of various cargoes to North Africa, the Balkans and islands in the Mediterranean. The return route was carrying precious oil. Frequently cargoes and personnel were placed directly on the decks of warships.

According to statistics, transport vessels under cover of Regia Marina delivered 28 Italian and 266 German trucks to the African continent and tanks. In addition, in the spring of 1941, 15 pieces of equipment and 951 pack animals were transported along the Italy-Balkans route.

In total, during the period of hostilities, the Italian Navy warships deployed on communications in the Mediterranean 54 457 min. The Regia Marina naval aviation patrol made 31 107 sorties, spending 125 hours in the air.


Italian cruisers "Duke d'Aosta" and "Eugenio di Savoia" put up a minefield off the coast of Libya. After a few months, the British strike compound will be blown up on the exposed mines. The cruiser "Neptune" and the destroyer "Kandahar" will go to the bottom

How do all these figures fit in with the ridiculous way of Krivorukov idlers, who are just doing that chewing their spaghetti?

Italians have long been great navigators (Marco Polo), and it would be too naive to believe that during the Second World War they just threw away the “white flag”. Italian Navy took part in battles around the world - from the Black Sea to the Indian Ocean. And high-speed Italian boats were noted even in the Baltic and on Lake Ladoga. In addition, the Regia Marina ships operated in the Red Sea, off the coast of China, and, of course, in the cold expanses of the Atlantic.

The Italians coolly patted the fleet of Her Majesty - only one mention of the "black prince" Valerio Borghese dismayed the entire British Admiralty.

Bandito saboteurs

"... Italians, in a certain sense, are much smaller soldiers, but much bigger gangsters" / M. Weller /
True to the traditions of the legendary "Sicilian Mafia", the Italian sailors were unsuitable for fair sea battles in an open format. The massacre at Cape Matapan, the disgrace in Taranto - the line and cruising forces of Regia Marina showed their complete inability to resist the well-trained fleet of Her Majesty.

And if so - then it is necessary to force the enemy to play by the Italian rules! Submarines, man-torpedoes, combat swimmers and boats with explosives. The British fleet expected major trouble.


Scheme attack naval bank Alexandria

... On the night from 18 to 19 in December 1941, a British patrol fished out of Alexandria Bay two eccentrics in frog-robed clothes. Realizing that the case is unclean, the British secured all the hatches and doors in the watertight bulkheads of the battleships, gathered on the upper deck and prepared for the worst.

After a brief interrogation, the captured Italians were locked in the lower rooms of the doomed battleship, in the hope that the macaroni would finally break up and still explain what was going on. Alas, in spite of the danger they were facing, the Italian combat swimmers steadfastly remained silent. Before 6: 05 in the morning, when powerful explosive charges worked under the bottoms of the battleships “Valiant” and “Queen Elizabeth”. Another bomb tore off the naval tanker tanker.

Despite a whip "slap" from the Italian Navy, the British paid tribute to the crews of "man-torpedoes".

"One can only admire the cold-blooded courage and enterprise of the Italians. Everything was carefully thought out and planned."

- Admiral E. Cannighem, commander of the Mediterranean forces of Her Majesty’s fleet

After the incident, the British frantically swallowed the air and looked for ways to protect their naval bases from Italian saboteurs. The entrances to all the large Mediterranean naval bases — Alexandria, Gibraltar, and La Valetta — were tightly blocked by nets, and dozens of patrol boats were on duty on the surface. Every 3 minutes another depth charge flew into the water. However, over the next two years of the war, the 23 vessel and the Allied tanker became victims of the frog people.



In April 1942, the Italians transferred an assault squad of speedboats and mini-submarines to the Black Sea. At first, the “sea devils” were based in Constanta (Romania), then in the Crimea and even in Anapa. The result of the actions of Italian saboteurs was the death of two Soviet submarines and three cargo ships, not counting the many sorties and sabotage on the coast.

The capitulation of Italy in 1943 caught the “special operations” department unawares - the “black prince” Valerio Borghese had just begun preparations for another ambitious operation - he was going to make a little “naughty” in New York.


Italian mini submarines in Constanta



Valerio Borghese is one of the main ideologues and inspirers of Italian combat swimmers.


Colossal experience of the team Valerio Borghese was appreciated in the post-war years. All the existing techniques, technologies and developments have become the basis for the creation and training of special units of sea lions around the world. It is no coincidence that the Borghese combat swimmers are the main suspects in the death of the battleship Novorossiysk (the captured Italian Giulio Cesare) in 1955. According to one version, the Italians could not survive their shame and destroyed the ship, if only he did not go under the enemy flag. However, all this is just a guess.

Epilogue

At the beginning of the 21st century, the Italian navy is a compact European fleet armed with the most modern ships and systems weapons.
The modern Italian fleet is not at all like the leaning Tower of Pisa: the preparation and equipment of Italian sailors meets the most stringent NATO standards and requirements. All ships and aircraft are built into a single information space. When choosing weapons, the benchmark is shifted towards purely defensive means - anti-aircraft missile systems, anti-submarine weapons, near-self-defense means.

As part of the Italian Navy there are two aircraft carrier. There is a high-quality submarine component and basic naval aviation. The Italian Navy regularly takes part in peacekeeping and special missions around the globe. Technical equipment is constantly updated: when choosing a weapon, radio-electronic means of navigation, detection and communication, priority is given to leading European developers - the British BAE Systems, the French Thales, and its own Marconi corporation. Judging by the results, the Italians everything turns out great.

Nevertheless, one should not forget the words of commander Alexander Suvorov: There is no earth in the world that would be so studded with fortresses as Italy. And there is no land that is so often conquered.


The newest Italian aircraft carrier "Cavour"



"Andrea Doria" - one of two Italian frigates of the type "Horizon" (Orizzonte)




Statistical data -
"The Italian Navy in the Second World War", by the captain of 2 rank Marc Antonio Bragadin

Illustrations -
http://www.wikipedia.org/
http://waralbum.ru/
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  1. Vladimirets
    Vladimirets 4 July 2013 09: 24
    +5
    The Italian Navy lost in WWII, mainly due to the lack of air reconnaissance and the overall lag of aviation in the marine theater.
    1. Gato
      Gato 4 July 2013 11: 52
      +7
      And also the lack of decent radar - just remember the battle at Cape Matapan.
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 4 July 2013 12: 03
        +9
        Quote: Gato
        And also the lack of decent radar - just remember the battle at Cape Matapan.

        For some reason, Mikawa in the battle near the island of Savo, the absence of a radar did not prevent the sinking of the 4 heavy cruiser, losing 58 people against more than a thousand from the allies. Maybe because the Japanese knew how to fight? :))
        1. Gato
          Gato 4 July 2013 13: 47
          +3
          Who is arguing? They were able, and most importantly - they wanted. I do not think that many Italians (after the Duce) considered themselves the heirs of the great Rome negative
          In addition, the Italians were hindered by the record speed of their ships in serious battles. laughing
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 4 July 2013 14: 20
            +3
            Quote: Gato
            In addition, the Italians were hindered by the record speed of their ships in serious battles.

            good drinks
            Wow :)) Here there is no objection :))))
            Although, in fairness, it can be noted that sometimes the record speed suddenly turned out to be not so fast at all ... as, for example, in the case of Colleoni and Bande Nere, which issued 38 plus knots on a measured mile, but could not leave from 32,5 hub Sydney ...
            1. Gato
              Gato 4 July 2013 15: 08
              +5
              Well, on a measured mile, the speed of a brand new ship with unworn mechanisms, clean bottom and no overload is estimated. Presumably, the team of mechanics was factory-made - so on the measured "Nera" and "Colleone" they produced 41.1 (!) And 39.9 knots, respectively.
              But in battle, anything can happen, the details are unknown.
              Maybe spaghetti wound on a shaft? laughing
              1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk 4 July 2013 15: 47
                +4
                Quote: Gato
                Presumably, the team of mechanics was factory-made - so on the measured "Nera" and "Colleone" they produced 41.1 (!) And 39.9 knots, respectively.

                Yes, but "Sydney" somehow gave 33,05 knots of maximum speed on a measured mile, although the experts yelled that it was shallow at a measured mile, and if it was deep, maybe half a knot could be added :))
                Quote: Gato
                Maybe spaghetti wound on a shaft?

                Well, yes ... and the British apparently accidentally clung to spaghetti hanging from Italian screws and their pearl, like a beaver on rails laughing
                1. Gato
                  Gato 4 July 2013 16: 05
                  -1
                  "I love pasta" (C) Makarevich laughing laughing
            2. Djozz
              Djozz 4 July 2013 17: 46
              +1
              Isn’t that the cruiser sunk by a German ship converted to a raider?
              1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk 4 July 2013 19: 45
                +1
                It was he - the Australian "Sydney" :) Looks like relaxed after the Italians
        2. smart ass
          smart ass 4 July 2013 14: 57
          +1
          The Japanese were well prepared for the night battles, and took advantage of this
    2. cdrt
      cdrt 4 July 2013 12: 46
      +2
      hmm ...
      To say that they were losing because of insufficient exploration is similar to "what happened to the boat - it sank." Those. direct statement that does not indicate the reasons for the incident.
      It seems like before the war, Italy was among the countries with the most developed naval aviation.
      The question is rather that they could not establish human interaction between naval aviation and squadrons at sea.
      Even the Germans did not reach the level, not to mention Japan, the USA ...
      And in aviation of the maritime year, until 1942 there was no particular lag.
      There were continuous errors in the choice of concept (reliance on horizontal bombers).

      As for the fleet - Bergamini or Ioakino wrote that the main problem was, like the surface Germans, in the direct leadership of the naval headquarters of forces in the sea during the operation.
      Actually, you can probably say that wherever there is such a way of management, the results were worse than bad.
      Wherever the old rule "the admiral knows best at sea" was applied, it turned out quite effectively.
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 4 July 2013 12: 57
        +3
        Quote: cdrt
        It seems like before the war, Italy was among the countries with the most developed naval aviation.

        You are mistaken. Italy was among the countries with the most developed aviation, yes. But she practically didn’t have MARINE aviation (ancient reconnaissance scouts, that's all) - hence the lack of interaction, the absence of torpedo bombers at the outbreak of war, and the reliance on horizontal bombing ...
        Quote: cdrt
        As for the fleet - Bergamini or Ioakino wrote that the main problem was, like the surface Germans, in the direct leadership of the naval headquarters of forces in the sea during the operation.

        This is only partly true, since the decisions of the Italian admirals did not strike the imagination at all with either decisiveness or courage :))) Well, really the supermarine ordered the Italian fleet to flee after the first hit of "Worspite" in "Cesar" in the battle of Calabria? :) I will never believe :)))))
        1. loft79
          loft79 4 July 2013 20: 42
          +1
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          But she practically didn’t have MARINE aviation (ancient scouts, and that’s all)


          SM.79bis Sparviero
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 4 July 2013 21: 02
            +1
            I’m sorry, I forgot. As many 5 (FIVE) torpedo bombers in 1940 g among Italians. But how much was the beginning of the war?
            1. loft79
              loft79 4 July 2013 22: 12
              0
              Well, so much was smile
              Italy joined WWII on June 10, 1940

              "From the end of 1939, all production S.79s were equipped with torpedo holders.
              At the Gorizia airbase, an experimental torpedo squadron of five aircraft was formed. It was she who delivered the first torpedo attack on ships in the port of Alexandria on August 15, 1940 "
  2. Santa Fe
    4 July 2013 09: 26
    30
    Black Cross on the chest of the Italian
    No carving, no pattern, no gloss, -
    A poor family stored
    And the only son wears ...

    A young native of Naples!
    What left you in Russia on the field?
    Why couldn't you be happy
    Over native famous bay?

    I who killed you under Mozdok
    So dreamed of a distant volcano!
    How I dreamed about the Volga
    Take a ride in the gondola just once!

    But I didn’t come with a gun
    Take away the Italian summer
    But my bullets didn’t whistle
    Above the holy land of Raphael!

    Here I shot! Here where I was born
    Where I was proud of myself and my friends,
    Where epics about our peoples
    Never sound in translations.

    Is Middle Don Bend
    Studied by foreign scientists?
    Our land - Russia, Rasey -
    Have you opened and planted?

    Not! You brought in echelon
    To capture distant colonies,
    To cross from the casket from the family
    Grew up to the size of a grave ...

    I will not let my country take out
    For the vastness of the foreign seas!
    I shoot - and there is no justice
    More fair than my bullet!

    You have never lived here and have never been! ..
    But scattered in the snow fields
    Italian blue sky
    Glazed in dead eyes ...

    / M. Svetlov, 1943 y. /
    1. Arberes
      Arberes 4 July 2013 10: 18
      +7
      Fascinating material, photos as always excellent!
      And for the wonderful poems, special thanks! Powerful syllable, nothing to say! hi
      1. Kars
        Kars 4 July 2013 12: 00
        +6
        LK .. Roma ..
        1. Kars
          Kars 4 July 2013 12: 00
          +2
          His last minutes
    2. Dovmont
      Dovmont 4 July 2013 21: 11
      +1
      Wonderful poem !!
  3. Iraclius
    Iraclius 4 July 2013 09: 34
    +8
    We should not forget about the possible dirty trace of the Black Prince Valerio Borghese in the death of our (former Italian) battleship Novorossiysk. sad

    PS And the Italian battleships are really beautiful.
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 4 July 2013 09: 56
      +5
      And Benedetto Brin, what kind of fancier was, what paradoxical ships did he invent for his era? In the competition with the British, what monsters did.
    2. anip
      anip 4 July 2013 10: 33
      +5
      Quote: Iraclius
      PS And the Italian battleships are really beautiful.

      And the heavy cruisers Zara, Trieste, Bolzano? They are amazing!
    3. Mister X
      Mister X 4 July 2013 22: 19
      +3
      Quote: Iraclius
      We should not forget about the possible dirty trace of the Black Prince Valerio Borghese in the death of our
      (former Italian) battleship Novorossiysk.


      I think that was not without the participation of Eugenio Wolk: Evgenia Volkova.


      Eugenio Wolk - Lieutenant of the Italian Navy was born in Chernigov, Ukraine, February 4 1915.
      His mother is from the old noble family of the Golitsins.
      In 1917, the family fled from Russia and settled in Rome.
      In 1927, Evgeny Volkov becomes a citizen of Italy and receives a passport in the name of Eugenio Wolk.
      At 1933, he enters the Naval Academy of Italy.
      There he studied with future admirals: Casardi, Cassano, Angelozzi, Scialdone, Bruni, Bernini, Straulino.
      From 1936 to 1938, he participated in the Spanish Civil War on the side of Franco.
      10 June 1940 years Italy enters the war. The wolf takes part in the battle of Stilo.
      On December 16 of the same year, a brave officer was sent to the training school for combat swimmers “La X Flottiglia MAS” (Decima MAS) for training on a guided torpedo operator.
      Then - the center of combat swimmers in La Spezia.
      At the beginning of 1942, he became a member of the Gamma group of combat swimmers.

      1. Mister X
        Mister X 4 July 2013 22: 23
        +1
        Evgeny Volk - the author of the idea of ​​transporting ultra-small boats over long distances for combat swimmers
        using one big submarine.
        The idea was as follows: enter the enemy harbor at night, guided torpedoes lie at the bottom during the day,
        and the attack on the ships of the enemy occurs the next night.
        The idea is accepted and the submarines "Idire", "Gonar" and "Shire" have been converted for these tasks,
        on decks of which 3 containers were mounted for transporting guided torpedoes.



        Evgeny Volk is also the author of the idea of ​​creating in the enemy’s water areas camouflaged places of permanent basing of combat swimmers.
        At the first need, saboteurs are already in place, and on the base there is everything for the preparation and conduct of actions.
        The idea came to the command of the soul and in the harbor of Algeciras, which is just opposite the waters of the military harbor of Gibraltar
        a disguised base for guided torpedoes is being created.
        The damaged civil steamship "Olterra", which was laid up in the port, was adapted for these purposes.
        By agreement with the owner of the vessel - his team was gradually replaced by marine saboteurs and technical specialists,
        and in his hold a workshop for the assembly of guided torpedoes “Mayale” was created.
        Torpedoes were delivered there disassembled, delivered under the guise of spare parts and equipment needed to repair the ship.
        Through a special hatch in the underwater part of the ship’s hull, the swimmers left the ship and returned back.



        But the main thing in this idea is the creation of such bases on the other side of the Atlantic, for sabotage in US ports.
        But no time: in 1943, the Americans landed in Sicily.
        1. Mister X
          Mister X 4 July 2013 22: 25
          +5
          After parole, the remnants of the Gamma group under the command of Wolf have been working for 2 years in Venice and the Mediterranean to clear mines and raise sunken ships.


          Isola di San Andrea (Venezia) Agosto 1945


          In 1947, the Wolf leaves Italy with his family and travels to Argentina.
          There, he, together with his colleagues from the 10th IAS Flotilla, creates the first special operations unit in all of South America.


          Argentina 1960: Il C.te Wolk con alcuni Ufficiali Argentini
          [/ Center]

          In 1952, the tactical group of combat swimmers APBT (Agrupacion de Buzos Tacticos) officially began operating on board the Cabo San Bartalome tactical landing ship.

          [Center]

          Argentina 1960: - Eugenio WOLK con alcuni operatori gamma argentini


          The group was part of the command of the submarine forces and was subordinate directly to the chief of naval operations.
          She took an active part in the Anglo-Argentine war.


          Argentina 1960: da sinistra: Cap. Frreg. Attilio SANTIAGO PORRETTI; Ing. BARDIERI della Caproni; C.te Eugenio WOLK



          After spending 14 years in Argentina, Wolf returns to Italy, and in 1961, he settled in the canton of Ticino, Switzerland.
          Eugenio Volk died in Lugano on June 17, 1995, having survived by only 1 year his commander: "Black Prince" Valerio Borghese.
  4. Son
    Son 4 July 2013 10: 23
    +4
    For me, the article is interesting ...
    I, not a big specialist, in the field of the fleet ...
    If anyone wants, explain:
    - Why are the superstructures of the ships streamlined in the "adversary", but in our "spread out" ..?
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 4 July 2013 10: 31
      +7
      Quote: Son
      - Why are the superstructures of the ships streamlined in the "adversary", but in our "spread out" ..?

      This is a photo of the latest ships using low-radar technologies (the so-called stealth technologies), and our ships were built, for the most part, a very long time ago, when we had not thought about it yet, but our new corvettes (so far only corvettes) are also being built with similar add-ons.
      1. Son
        Son 4 July 2013 10: 45
        +1
        Thanks ...
      2. altman
        altman 4 July 2013 14: 57
        0
        and frigates like "Admiral Gorshkov" .. although not in service, but already on the way
  5. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 4 July 2013 10: 23
    10
    The article is generally not bad, but ... Oleg, you are again looking for a black cat in the wrong place :)))) If you really wanted to describe the heroic heroism of the Italian naval forces, then you should describe the behavior of Italian sailors in the "death alley" Well and the successes of the 10th flotilla of the IAU are still impossible to "pull" on the Italian Navy as a whole :)))
    And so - as always, there are a lot of gritty phrases with frankly weak historical authenticity ... Maybe you can write articles a little less often, and read sources a little more often? :)))
    The British can joke as much as they like, but the fact remains: in the battles on the Mediterranean Sea Her Majesty's fleet lost 137 ships of the main classes and 41 submarines ... ... Of course, half of them were sunk by German aircraft and Kriegsmarine submarines - but even the rest enough to forever record the Italian "sea wolves" in the pantheon of great sea warriors

    On large surface ships - at the hands of Italian seafarers, 1 heavy cruiser (York) 5 light cruisers, 13 destroyers and one escort destroyer, and only 20 ships were killed :))) Germans sank the 1 battleship (Barem) 2 aircraft carrier (Eagle and Royal), 10 light cruisers, 3 cruiser minzag (type Abdiel) 35 destroyers and 12 escort destroyers, and all in all - 63 ships :))))) You have some strange halves, mister author, right word :)))) )
    And for these 20 large surface ships, the Italians paid for the death of one battleship, 4 heavy cruisers, 6 light cruisers, 35 destroyers and 26 destroyers, i.e. 72 ships, i.e. even in numbers, the Italians paid 3,5 ships for one English. What is heroism? :)
    You can, of course, add the Italians 2 LK, blown up in Alexandria, but then the British should write down on the ground in Taranto "Littorio"
    The British themselves classify these losses as constructive total loss.

    Wow! And I didn’t know that the officer of the Italian "Supermarine" Antonio Bragadin, who called the blown up British ships in his memoirs with this sonorous term, is in fact a true Englishman :))) This is how he disguised himself, the damned shpien laughing
    1. Santa Fe
      4 July 2013 18: 56
      0
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      1 heavy cruiser (York) 5 light cruisers, 13 destroyers and one destroyer destroyer, and only 20 ships died at the hands of Italian seafarers :)))

      The fact that the Germans fought better is a fact
      But no matter how you are now trying to count the shares, one thing is clear: the Italian Navy can claim to be in the top five WWII fleets. In the end, what else did you want from a country the size of Karelia and the Murmansk region?

      For greater reliability, it’s good to calculate the losses of the remaining fleets of the allied powers fighting against the Italian Navy

      Before the armistice between France and Italy, the French fleet lost only one Morse submarine.

      The Greek fleet lost at least 56 ships with a displacement of about 30000 tons. 1 battleship ("Kilkis"); 4 destroyer; 10 escort destroyers; 4 submarines ... (The battleship is actually an armadillo built at the beginning of the century: Escort destroyers are the same old coal destroyers.).

      Among the captured Yugoslav ships were: 5 destroyers; 4 escort destroyer; 3 submarines. 1 destroyer was flooded by its own crew. 1 submarine perished in battle. In total, the Yugoslav fleet lost at least 30 ships with a displacement of 18000 tons.

      Holland lost the destroyer Isaac Sears.

      The official list of US casualties shows the 1 destroyer ...

      The ships of the Canadian, Australian, New Zealand and Indian fleets also took part in the war on the Mediterranean Sea. Their losses are not known, except for 2 Canadian corvettes with a displacement of 1450 tons.
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      What is heroism? :)

      In matters of heroism, the ratio of losses is not an argument
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      You can, of course, add the Italians 2 LK, blown up in Alexandria, but then the British should write down on the ground in Taranto "Littorio"

      Required
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      under this resounding term blown up British ships

      re-read it again
      exactly, these are his words

      But the most interesting, Andrey - in fact, I have no mistake. This is how the consequences of the explosions in the port of Alexandria should be classified (although the Britons themselves are embarrassed to admit it. The pelvis was raised and restored, just because it sank in a shallow place)
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 4 July 2013 20: 15
        +3
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        But no matter how you are trying to count the shares, one thing is clear: the Italian Navy can claim a place in the top five navies of the WWII.

        Oleg, and by what criteria? As you yourself wrote now, the loss criterion is not good, and you don’t give others!
        You write
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        The Greek fleet lost at least 56 ships with a displacement of about 30000 tons. 1 battleship ("Kilkis") 4 destroyer; 10 escort destroyers; 4 submarines ...

        That's right, but the very same Kilkis was sunk by German dive-bombers and this has nothing to do with the Italian Navy. About destroyers and other boats - I don’t remember Chesslov, but it is unlikely that there is anything Italian. And then - what's the difference? The Greek fleet, even if it was sunk entirely by Italians, has nothing to do with our conversation - the statistics I cited are the deaths of Italian ships from ENGLISH weapons, and English ships from ITALIAN weapons. I do not take the general losses of Italians, but only those that the British caused to them
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        In matters of heroism, the ratio of losses is not an argument

        Oleg, what is the argument? The Italians had a superiority in power over almost the entire campaign. With the exception of the battle of Calabria, they always avoided a clash with equal or weaker British squadrons (well, except in cases of very overwhelming superiority) The Italian fleet did not solve its tasks, but in fact did not try.
        Nevertheless, the heroism of Italian sailors did indeed take place at times. Often their light ships fought fiercely and valiantly against superior enemy forces. And the supply of Tunisia at the last stages of the battle in the desert is a whole epic ... This is an argument. And the loss ratio is completely unprofitable for Italians.
        How is it? From the point of view of losses, for example, the same Tsushima by no means testifies to the valor of the Russian sailors. But we know they fought fiercely. We know that the latest Russian battleships led the squadron to the last, right up to their own death. We remember how the "Suvorov", soaked in trash, fired back from the last gun from the attacking destroyers, but did not lower the flag and did not surrender. This is also a criterion. And, yes, we rightly consider Tsushima a shame. But those who fell on "Oslyab", "Suvorov", "Alexandra", "Borodino", "Ushakov" have no shame, and even the enemy admired their valor.
        But the main forces of the Italian fleet did not show anything like this. So it turns out - a powerful fleet (perhaps the fourth in the world) ... no strategic result, no fierce battles of the main forces, no losses inflicted on the enemy
        Nevertheless, I repeat, heroism can be found even among Italians
        1. Santa Fe
          4 July 2013 21: 00
          +1
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          I do not take the general losses of Italians, but only those that the British caused to them

          Yes there, whatever one may say, they are confidently in the five largest sea powers
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          From the point of view of losses, for example, the same Tsushima does not in any way testify to the valor of the Russian sailors. But we know that they fought fiercely.

          Tsushima do not like.
          They might not have fought fiercely - the effect would have been the same
          Here, after all, how: stubborn patriots impose an original idea: the task is failed, the squadron is defeated with a dry account, all the shells are in milk, nothing has been done, but all the way "we cannot be defeated."

          My personal conviction: the sailors of the 2nd Tikhoken squadron, without knowing it, sacrificed themselves in the name of the future of our Fatherland. The deafening defeat in the "small victorious war" only benefited Russia, hastening the overthrow of the Tsar-Father and his rotten system through and through
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          But those who fell on "Oslyab", "Suvorov", "Alexandra", "Borodino", "Ushakov" have no shame, and even the enemy admired their valor.

          I feel sorry for this whole story. People were simply framed. Most importantly, the organizers of the "small victorious war" got what they deserved.
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          and the successes of the 10th flotilla of the IAU are still impossible to "pull" on the Italian Navy as a whole :)))

          What to do, the success of naval saboteurs is greater than the success of ships of the main classes
      2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 4 July 2013 20: 21
        +1
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        But the most interesting, Andrey - in fact, I have no mistake. This is how the consequences of the explosions in the port of Alexandria should be classified (although the Britons themselves are embarrassed to admit it. The pelvis was raised and restored, just because it sank in a shallow place)

        Absolutely agree. Ships have lost buoyancy, info 100%, I guarantee it :)))) As the comrade Patients said:
        But, to be completely objective, the British also sin in a similar way, albeit to a lesser extent. Very much they do not like to include that constructive total loss in losses. That's not sunk, that's all!

        In my opinion, we here completely agree in opinion - the British should record both Alexandrian wounded animals in losses, and the Italians - Littorio and Cavour in Taranto.
  6. washi
    washi 4 July 2013 11: 36
    +3
    Ships have their own architecture. This is already a plus, i.e. do not copy, stupidly, other people's developments, but have their own solutions.
  7. sokrat-71
    sokrat-71 4 July 2013 11: 38
    +4
    Thanks for the interesting article.
  8. Gato
    Gato 4 July 2013 11: 58
    +6
    Italians have long been great sailors (Marco Polo)

    Indeed, the great sailor and storyteller laughing Captain Vrungel is just resting ..
  9. Starover_Z
    Starover_Z 4 July 2013 12: 12
    +3
    Laughter, as you know, prolongs life, and when it comes to Regia Marina Italiana, life is doubly extended.

    An explosive mixture of Italian vitality, negligence and carelessness can turn any useful undertaking into a farce. There are legends about the royal naval forces of Italy: during the war years, Italian sailors achieved a fantastic result - fleet losses exceeded the list of ships of the Italian Navy! Almost every Italian ship died / sank / was captured during his service twice and sometimes three times.

    Good "laugh" if the film is dedicated to the Italian invention of human torpedoes
    “Dr. Abst's experiment” is an adventure film of 1968 based on the novel by Madame Nasibov “Mad Men”.
    Reading it in Soviet times was completely not funny!
    It remains to pay tribute to the Italian sailors!
  10. Per se.
    Per se. 4 July 2013 12: 47
    +4
    "Battleships of the" Littorio "type are firing at the ships of the British squadron (battle at Cape Spartivento, 1940)". In the battle at Cape Spartivento, the Italians had only one battleship "of the" Littorio "type, this is the" Vittorio Veneto ", and the second" Giulio Cesare ", in which the second bow and third aft turrets of the main battery were two-gun. Except for the heavily damaged Conti di Cavour, the Italians lost only one battleship, and then, the Roma was sunk after Italy left the war, when she went to Malta to the British, sunk by former allies - German Do-217 bombers sank his two heavy radio-controlled gliding bombs FX-1400. In general, I liked the article.
  11. Delta
    Delta 4 July 2013 12: 49
    +1
    “At the beginning of the XNUMXst century, the Italian naval forces are a compact European fleet, armed with the most modern ships and naval weapons systems.
    The modern Italian navy is not in the least like the crooked Leaning Tower of Pisa: the training and equipment of Italian sailors meets the most stringent NATO standards and requirements. The Italian Navy has two aircraft carriers. "


    It is completely incomprehensible how this author, so delighted with the balance of the Italian fleet and noting the presence of two aircraft carriers, immediately forgets his declarations about the complete uselessness of aircraft carriers. Consequently, either the author is not entirely smart, or changes his mind twice a day, or the Italian fleet still represents the Leaning Tower of Pisa, because it includes such useless and expensive ships
    1. Santa Fe
      4 July 2013 18: 59
      0
      Quote: Delta
      It is completely incomprehensible how this author, so delighted with the balance of the Italian fleet and noting the presence of two aircraft carriers, immediately forgets his declarations about the complete uselessness of aircraft carriers.

      Consider it a gesture designed for the general public
      1. tlauicol
        tlauicol 4 July 2013 19: 14
        +7
        reciprocal gesture about the submarine :)) the commander of the Italian submarine "Evangelista Toricceli" Captain 3rd Rank Salvatore Pelosi was assigned to patrol around Djibouti. At his position, the boat collided with the active anti-submarine defense of the British and, changing course, went to its shores. She returned along the surface, as she could not submerge due to damage. North of Perim, the boat met the English sloop "Shoreham", which urgently called for help.

        The submarine had one 120-mm gun and opened fire first, hitting the sloop with a second projectile, and later it was taken to Aden for repairs.

        In the meantime, the Indian sloop "Hindu" approached the place of the battle, and then the division of new English destroyers. 19-mm 120-mm and 4-102-mm guns, plus a lot of machine guns turned against the only cannon of the boat.

        Captain Pelosi took the fight. He fired all the torpedoes at the destroyers Kingston, Kandahar and Khartoum, while continuing to fire the cannon. The British dodged the torpedoes, but one of the shells hit the Khartoum. Only half an hour after the start of the battle, the boat received a shell in the stern, which damaged the steering gear and wounded Pelosi.

        Some time later, the "Evangelista Toricceli" cannon was destroyed by a direct hit. Having exhausted all possibilities for resistance, the captain ordered the ship to be flooded. The survivors were taken aboard the destroyer Kandahar, and Pelosi was greeted by the British officers with a military greeting. From aboard the destroyer, the Italians watched as the fire on the Khartoum continued to grow.

        It ended with an explosion of ammunition and the death of a destroyer. Khartoum (1690 t, 1939 built) was considered the newest ship. The case when a submarine drowns a destroyer in artillery combat has no analogues in maritime history.

        The British praised the valor of the Italian submariners. Pelosi and his senior officer in Aden were invited to an official dinner, where the commander of Khartoum was present, with whom they exchanged toasts. Then Pelosi was received as a senior naval officer in the Red Sea by Rear Admiral Murray.

        In addition to the losses suffered by British ships, the British fired 700 shells and five hundred machine-gun magazines to sink one submarine. "Toricceli" went under the water with a waving Battle flag, which can only be raised in front of the enemy. Valor was appreciated, Pelonesi was awarded the highest military award of Italy "Medal D Or Al Valor Militari" - the Gold Medal for Military Valor
        1. Santa Fe
          4 July 2013 20: 05
          0
          Quote: Tlauicol
          The case when a submarine drowns a destroyer in artillery combat has no analogues in maritime history.

          Aw, class!
  12. makst83
    makst83 4 July 2013 13: 53
    +2
    the former glory of the "iron" legions of Rome has passed ...
    1. Gato
      Gato 4 July 2013 14: 24
      +3
      What does Italians have to do with the ancient Romans?
      They are the descendants of any rabble that populated the Apennine boot after the fall of Rome. Their ancestors did not serve in the legions - they grazed goats on the ruins and crap in the Coliseum am
      1. Per se.
        Per se. 4 July 2013 22: 27
        +3
        Quote: Gato
        Their ancestors did not serve in the legions - they grazed goats on the ruins and crap in the Coliseum
        The later legions of Rome and consisted of every rabble of barbarians who served Rome for citizenship and money, the Romans themselves no longer really wanted to serve their empire. This is the law of the "genre", the general conscription of the Roman Republic, was replaced by legionnaires-contract soldiers of the empire, and they, in turn, were mercenaries and unwillingness to serve among the native citizens. A similar "evolution" is underway in the United States. It is a pity that our former people's army can also turn down this path.
  13. Kir
    Kir 4 July 2013 14: 05
    0
    The article killed itself, with a statement about following the traditions of the Sicilians, the author should take an interest in the fact that the Amer Sicilians, including the Sicilian roots, can’t forgive the roots of the Sicilians and they can’t bear the Latins’s heirs!
  14. Denis
    Denis 4 July 2013 17: 38
    0
    About the fact that only the flotilla of Prince Borghese was mentioned in WWII. But
    to “get” the German “Tirpitz”, hiding in the polar Altenfjord, the British aviation had to make about 700 sorties (not counting sabotage using mini-submarines)
    what was he hiding there if
    the Soviet Navy during the war did not sink a single enemy ship larger than the destroyer
    or about damage is not specifically talked about?
    That the Gaybritans are famous heroes and the same, if not more, nonsense has not been news for a long time, so their stories should be divided into 16, well ... and discovery ... with them
    But for such a powerful military unit as Tirpitz to simply stand idle
    1. Evgan
      Evgan 4 July 2013 17: 55
      +1
      Tirpitz was not just idle, but with his presence alone made the British keep considerable forces in the North Sea and be careful with convoys.
      And, in fairness, it should be noted that the Germans had to fear not only the Navy from the coast of Norway
    2. Santa Fe
      4 July 2013 19: 14
      +1
      Quote: Denis
      what was he hiding there if

      if the whole fleet of the mother country was hunting for him
      Quote: Denis
      or about damage is not specifically talked about?

      and what is there to talk about?
      1. Denis
        Denis 4 July 2013 20: 32
        0
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        if the whole fleet of the mother country was hunting for him
        He was not the only one among the Nazis
        the Soviet Navy during the war did not sink a single enemy ship larger than the destroyer
        About that, damage is also a serious thing
        1. Santa Fe
          4 July 2013 21: 13
          0
          Quote: Denis
          He was not the only one among the Nazis

          One. After the death of Bismarck
          Quote: Denis
          About that, damage is also a serious thing

          Lunin did not get into Tirpitz. There is not a single documented confirmation of the attack by the Germans / allies (the battleship — its movements around the bay, its condition, repairs, and the security system — were closely monitored by local agents)

          it would be impossible to hide damage from an explosion

          damage to the American battleship North Caroline from a Japanese torpedo
  15. svp67
    svp67 4 July 2013 19: 11
    +1
    Italian fleet will not fail!
    Well, judging by the history of the Second World War, probably "?" would be more appropriate in this phrase ...
  16. GUSAR
    GUSAR 4 July 2013 21: 20
    +2
    During World War II, Italy had a kind of fleet, like an army, like the Air Force, while the Italians had a lot of weapons and equipment and it was of very good quality. But the warriors ...
  17. old man54
    old man54 5 July 2013 22: 33
    0
    The article is interesting, very happy that the author offers his view on the topic and analyzes the events. Put "+". Not everything was final about her, but by and large I liked it.
    Quote: Author
    It is no coincidence that the Borghese combat swimmers are the main suspects in the death of the battleship Novorossiysk (captured Italian Giulio Cesare) in the 1955 year. According to one version, the Italians could not survive their shame and destroyed the ship, if only he did not go under the enemy flag. However, all this is just an assumption.

    This story is well-known and has already set the teeth on edge. But its inconsistency is emphasized by the fact that this reason for the death of "Novorosiysk" lies on the surface, as if asking itself into "hands", which is very bad for good conspiracy. And if you brainwash, then why would the Italians blow up Novorosiysk in 1957 when they could do it perfectly and quite safely for themselves back in Italy, even before the battleship was handed over to the Soviet Navy? Just arrange its explosion at the quay wall directly, come up with an absurd reason, such as detonation of ammunition, non-observance of the safety rules for storing the ammunition of the main battery, and so on. There the Germans in 1920 in Scapa Flow, right in front of the Britons, drowned their linors and cruisers, tk. really didn’t want the brits to get them! But even the Italians carried out a medium repair of the ship, before handing it over to us, eliminated all the malfunctions and defects, and not any "terrible Borghese" did anything! wink And now, almost 10 years have passed since the transfer of the linkroa and ... BAM !!! angry As all the detectives known to the world say, when investigating a crime, look for someone to whom it was beneficial! A sabotage against the flagship of one of the fleets of the country, with which there is not even tension in relations, is a CRIME !! but international level. So think, Oleg, to whom was it profitable then, in the 1957 year to turn this matter around.
    1. Santa Fe
      6 July 2013 18: 22
      0
      Quote: old man54
      A sabotage against the flagship of one of the fleets of the country, with which there is not even tension in relations, is a CRIME !! but international level. So think, Oleg, to whom was it profitable then, in 1957, to crank up this matter.

      Novorossiysk posed no threat to NATO

      And to start the Third World War with the sinking of the Novorossiysk is about the same as starting the seizure of the world by robbing a booth at a bus stop.
      1. old man54
        old man54 9 July 2013 01: 43
        0
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Novorossiysk posed no threat to NATO

        In 57 year? Represented! Well, not so very, very much, but still! Psychologically, for the country and the leadership it was like a hint and a spit in the face at the same time - the KChF flagship, right on the raid of the main fleet base, what’s more?
        And to start the Third World War with the sinking of the Novorossiysk is about the same as starting the seizure of the world by robbing a booth at a bus stop.

        The fact is that before 1957 it was 1956, and that was the year of armed aggression against Egypt. It was carried out by 3 states: Britain (be it not okay), France and Israel. The USSR was clearly late to deploy its already weak forces in the form of the KChF in the eastern part of the Mediterranean Sea, in the conflict zone, in order to cover the ally, officially threatened the aggressor countries that if they did not lag behind Egypt themselves, it would enter the war on to his side with all the s-you available to him (vidmo hinted at nuclear weapons). The occupants instantly cooled their ardor and quickly shook off the Egyptian shores. Then, for a long time, this demarche of the USSR by Khrushchev was procrastinating at the UN (that they say cut-off Russians constantly threaten nuclear weapons). But this situation of the armed "blackmail" of the USSR hit the pride of Britain most painfully, the more so that at that time it still imagined itself to be a power of the world, global level, which it was before the 2nd MV. And the Britons were always very afraid of the appearance of the Russian fleet in the Mediterranean, which happened shortly after the end of the Second World War. Anyway, this entire political situation around Egypt and the BV as a whole was directly directed against the British and to reduce their influence in the eastern Mediterranean, by Stalin. "Novorossiysk" is not a reason to recoup the shameful humiliation before the world and avenge the insult, but for one thing and significantly weaken the power of the KChF. A year later, half of those events, NATO exercises in the Black Sea were ashamed of Turkey, submarines with saboteurs, penetration into the Sevastopol raid, laying explosives. Much more believable than "vengeful and irrepressible Borghese"! I think that through the KGB and the GRU Khrushchev learned the truth pretty soon, but apparently they did not disclose it to the people (cattle), they were afraid that the people who defeated fascism 12 years ago might not understand such indecision of the authorities! It would look strange. The USSR is so powerful and not afraid of anything ... did not respond in any way to the imperialists who brazenly blew up our battleship right in Sevastopol! So they came up with another otmaz. And the purpose of the Britons was to "put" the Russians in their place, to show them that not everything is as simple as it seems to them, that there are trump cards in their hands. This action lies in the same plane with the Anglo-Saxon bombing of peaceful Munich in 1945, the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki at the same time. Or do you think that all these actions pursued purely military plans, the ones we are told about ??? wink
      2. old man54
        old man54 9 July 2013 01: 54
        0
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        And to start the Third World War with the sinking of the Novorossiysk is about the same as starting the seizure of the world by robbing a booth at a bus stop.

        why not ??? laughing The triumphal procession of the party of Adolf Hitler to power and then its almost blitz-taking capture of Europe and the 2-th MV began with a beer coup (march) in Munich. Well-known fact.
        But that's me, for a laugh. good
  18. xomaNN
    xomaNN 6 July 2013 19: 38
    +2
    Back in the 80s, a couple of times I recounted Borghese's memoirs about often adventurous (here he is Italian nonsense :)), but effective attacks by Italian underwater swimmers and their special equipment. In these actions, neither the British nor the Germans had any chance to taste such successes :)) They were written by the way without unnecessary pathos, often everyday. The classics of submarine warfare, and it was only after the war, having studied the performance of Italians, that they finally seriously engaged in means of delivery of swimmers, weapons etc.
  19. i.xxx-1971
    i.xxx-1971 15 July 2013 19: 00
    0
    The Soviet Navy (exclusively the Northern and Baltic Fleets) fought in such conditions that it is out of competition. They fought like suicide bombers, at the limit of human capabilities and completed their combat mission. Nobody is better than us and never fought at sea better - NOBODY! It is not necessary to consider the sunk tonnage. The main thing is the fulfillment of the strategic task. In exactly the same way, the effectiveness of the Soviet Air Force must be compared. WE won the war, not the Germans, not Italians, not Japanese. Anglo-Saxons, in the wake of our victories, came to Europe and Germany. NEVER would the Anglo-Saxons defeat Germany without the USSR! Although we did not have a strong fleet, the fate of Europe was not decided in the oceans. And now the fate of Europe is being decided elsewhere.