Romanian troops in Moldova

239
Romanian troops in MoldovaMoldova has signed a military treaty with Romania. Now, in the event of a war with Transnistria, the Romanian army will openly enter there, and the Romanian gendarmes will crush any protests against the unification of the two countries in Chisinau, Balti or Gagauzia. The only way for Moscow to avoid slaughter is direct cooperation with Tiraspol.

27 June 2013, the Moldovan Parliament ratified the agreement on military cooperation with Romania. Reportedly, the main thing in the agreement that passed the first reading is the creation of a legal basis for the permanent presence of Romanian troops in the Republic of Moldova. Earlier, Chisinau and Bucharest signed a document stating that the Romanian gendarmerie can get access to the territory of Moldova in case of "riots".

Since Moldova considers Transnistria to be its part, any resistance of Tiraspol to the will of Chisinau, and any attempt by the Russian peacekeepers deployed in the Transdniestrian Moldavian Republic to stop the bloodshed, can be declared a “riot”. That is, the gendarmes from Romania will be called upon to help Chisinau with a forceful “solution of the Transnistrian issue”, and also to suppress the actions of opponents of the takeover of Moldova by Bucharest in Moldova itself (Balti, Gagauzia).

An armed invasion of Moldova from the Prut can go through the line of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the line of the Ministry of Defense of Romania. The document implies: consultations, exchange of representatives, holding joint military exercises, exchange of personnel. Joint military infrastructures can be created. It gives the go-ahead to "the organization of joint command at the operational and territorial levels and the corresponding work of the general staffs." It provides for the “exchange of personnel during exercises”, “the use of the airspace of countries during joint exercises”, the exchange of documents, including “cartographic support”, etc.

This means in the event of a conflict on the Dniester, Romania can connect its air force to attack Transdnistria and the Russian group in Transdniestria, as well as with the help of its General Staff, which, of course, is more powerful than the General Staff of Moldova, to plan combat operations. It is clear that the Romanian military will take over command.

Finally, Romania is a member of NATO, which creates the prerequisites for entering into a possible new war on the Dniester of the forces of the North Atlantic Alliance.

Romanian piano in Moldavian bushes

The Romanian leadership and its junior partners in Chisinau have chosen the present days for this step not by chance. The situation in the zone of the Moldova-Transdniestrian conflict is now rapidly exacerbated. It may be several months before the final gap between Chisinau and Tiraspol.

The media reported: preparations for the signing in Vilnius of the treaties on Moldova’s accession to the trade zone with the EU and the Moldova-EU Association have been completed. Transnistria does not intend to join there. Initialing should take place in November-2013 in Vilnius at the Eastern Partnership Summit.

At the same time, Chisinau, along the Moldova-Transdniestrian border, is deploying 6 migration posts, which will fulfill the de facto function of the border. One of their tasks is to fine Transnistrians traveling in the Republic of Moldova, who do not have Moldovan citizenship. At the same time, Chisinau admits that this idea was thrown to him by the EU.

For its part, Transdniestrian President Yevgeny Shevchuk promised to “stop” reconnaissance flights over the territory of the republic. It is also reported that additional Transnistrian forces were brought into Bender, which caused protests from Chisinau.

Course - Odessa

It is obvious that Romania is preparing a takeover of Moldova with a new force. 27 June, the ruling "Coalition of pro-European government" in Chisinau adopted the Border Regime Treaty between the two countries - while the Moldova State Border Treaty has not yet been concluded. As is known, Romanian President Traian Basescu has repeatedly stated that he never recognizes the border "established by Stalin and Hitler." He believes that the Treaty of Paris 1947 of the year, which established the border between the USSR (which included the MSSR) and Romania along the Prut River, was imposed on Bucharest as a result of the Second World War.

And now the Romanians are creating the basis for a future takeover: in parallel with the military and police penetration into Moldova, they shy away from consolidating the state border with Moldova along Prut. It turns out that they may enter into a possible conflict in the former Soviet Moldavia, but they do not recognize the border. Most likely, in the future, Bucharest sees this border as the Romanian-Ukrainian border in the area of ​​Kuchurgan, which is not far from Odessa. However, the plans of the builders of "Great Romania" also include the annexation of part of the Odessa region and Bukovina.

In the meantime, as Moldovan parliamentarians themselves admit of the ruling checkpoint, Romania "refuses to even discuss the treaty on the state border." This is logical, since Bucharest sees Moldova and Transdniestria in its composition.

Bury the Helsinki Corpse

So, the European Union and Romania are initiating the aggravation of the situation on the Dniester. The EU is pushing Moldova towards repressions against Transnistrians who do not have Moldovan citizenship. Romania creates the basis for military intervention in the Moldova-Transdniestrian confrontation.

From the point of view of Brussels and Bucharest, these steps are taken on time. If agreements are signed in Vilnius, then political negotiations between the Republic of Moldova and Transdniestria will lose their meaning. In fact, what to talk about, if legally Moldova moves into the political and economic sphere of influence of the EU and Romania, while the Transnistrian Moldavian Republic is heading for Eurasian integration? For Tiraspol, links with Moscow and, if possible, Kiev are extremely important. And if Tiraspol, contrary to the wishes of Brussels and Bucharest, does not want to go "to Europe through Romania", it means that they believe in these capitals, it should be pressed.

In Transnistria, they are very alarmed: if Russia does not intervene decisively now, the unrecognized republic is waiting for a fate worse than South Ossetia (there is no common border between the Russian Federation and Transdniestria), and the Russian peacekeepers face the fate of the KSOR base near Georgians. Moldavian reconnaissance aircraft are already flying over Transnistria - believed to be in Tiraspol, with NATO reconnaissance aircraft on board. In the capital, Transnistrian Moldavian Republic regard these actions as clarifying targets for strikes and promise to “nip” flights.

Transnistrians hope that Moscow will finally stop looking at Chisinau on every occasion and start working directly with Transnistria.
Here they are also counting on the strengthening of the Russian military presence in the Transdniestrian Moldavian Republic, as well as on the earliest start of large-scale funding for the modernization and rearmament of Transnistrian security forces.

Transnistria also urgently needs to develop and implement a training program for the army, the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the KGB of the republic in Russia. If Ukraine somehow participates in this, this is even better, since the penetration of Romania into Moldova directly threatens the national interests of Kiev, they are convinced in Tiraspol. However, the Ukrainian theme requires a weighted separate conversation.

In a word, Transdniestria expects Russia to repeatedly strengthen direct ties in all directions. If Chisinau openly goes under the NATO military umbrella, they note here that there is no point in general adhering to the formalities left over from the dead more than 20 years ago by the Helsinki Accords.
239 comments
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  1. +79
    3 July 2013 15: 48
    It is time for Russia to annex Transnistria, to locate military bases there, and in case of the entry of Romanian troops into Moldova, roll them out on the asphalt. Enough almond, there is a limit to everything. The more we close our eyes to the "pranks" of the Moldovans and Ukraine with the "closure of the borders" of Transnistria, the more they "itch" from impunity am
    It is necessary to demand from Ukraine clear conditions for military transit through its territory from Russia to Transnistria, to confront Moldova with the fact that the Romanians will get into you, we will consider the beginning of the database and occupation with all the ensuing consequences.
    1. Nevsky
      +9
      3 July 2013 15: 55
      True Romanians are coming, 1:50 laughing one of them is driving something at the communists.

      1. +19
        3 July 2013 17: 45
        No one here is driving the Communists ... I will briefly translate ... The dispute between Moldovan and Romanian ... Themes Antonescu freed Moldova, the Red Army occupied us ... Romanian Moldovans - you are an occupier, an invader. Negro - Moldavian - are you a communist? Moldovan, I am in my own land. At the end, Ryman shouts - all Russians ...
        So ... so that not all Moldovans want to see Romania here ...
        1. +11
          3 July 2013 18: 07
          and black then what the hell do you need7 ??? am let him yell in africa !!!!
          1. +10
            3 July 2013 19: 48
            Quote: 89501358976
            and black then what the hell do you need7 ???

            It is said the same Romanian. Rather, the Afro-Romanian will be more tolerant.
            1. +8
              3 July 2013 20: 01
              noble fellow this neger
              on the 9th of May I attached a ribbon to my leg
              his happiness that his policemen
            2. +2
              3 July 2013 20: 51
              From tolerance already (Lord, save) ...
            3. +5
              3 July 2013 22: 59
              not Afro, but Negro-Romanian)))
            4. +6
              4 July 2013 10: 30
              Quote: KonstantM
              It is said the same Romanian. Rather, the Afro-Romanian will be more tolerant.

              For some reason, I immediately remembered this picture
            5. 0
              5 July 2013 17: 20
              Quote: KonstantM
              It is said the same Romanian.

              Who can take them apart, like there in my brother, "what's the difference"))
              I was certainly stunned by the "bright lean Romanian"
        2. +1
          3 July 2013 20: 49
          And should we sniff in a rag? Alexey is right
      2. moldavan
        +4
        3 July 2013 22: 24
        You yourself see how many and who wants to be with Romanians
    2. avt
      +19
      3 July 2013 15: 58
      Quote: seasoned
      It is time for Russia to annex Transnistria, to establish military bases there, and if Romanian troops enter Moldova, roll them on asphalt. Stop lingering, there’s a limit to everything.

      request How do you imagine this technically in the absence of a border with Transnistria? This is not Ossetia and Abkhazia, much depends on Ukraine here, and its leadership will spoil us out of the gas principle there.
      1. +11
        3 July 2013 16: 02
        Quote: avt

        How do you imagine this technically in the absence of a border with Transnistria?

        And what can Ukraine do? Our transport workers will start to bring down, this is nonsense, plus in Gagauzia they want to separate from Chisinau. Many contra. What would Romania with its sixes get for hi
        1. Che
          Che
          +4
          3 July 2013 18: 09
          Nonsense. I can’t imagine that the Romanians will become insolent enough to unleash a war. In my opinion, NATO will not even allow it.
          1. +4
            3 July 2013 19: 31
            Let it be allowed.
            Moreover, they chopped off part of the shelf of the Black Sea near the ov.
            Another question is that Romania is still not Schengen for a reason.
            Separate it from the European Union - press a couple of buttons on the keyboard and euro transfers to Romania will stop. But the barriers on the border and so are.
            Of course, Romania is a NATO member, but the armament is not yet all NATO and the fact that NATO is highly used, so it’s not a pity to leave him there.

            The European Union has no great desire to wage a small victorious war that shines the next world.
            The whole question is how much determination of the current regime in Russia will be enough.
          2. +5
            3 July 2013 20: 55
            Of course, it will not allow, but it will allow barking. FOR THAT she and the dog
          3. +2
            4 July 2013 15: 41
            Quote: Che
            Nonsense. I can’t imagine that the Romanians will become insolent enough to unleash a war. In my opinion, NATO will not even allow it.


            And who in 2007 thought that it would blaze in South Ossetia so that the Georgians would attack the Russian peacekeepers and would really plan to attack the Russian soldiers?
        2. +7
          3 July 2013 18: 11
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          And what can Ukraine do?

          Recently I watched an interview with Yushchenko: we took a direct course towards European integration! Do you catch a thought? laughing
        3. +1
          3 July 2013 19: 16
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          And what can Ukraine do? Will start to bring down our transporters, this is nonsense

          Well, if the goal is only to overtake the transporters, then yes, but after the completion of the military phase, what shall we do?
          borzoi are offended and are unlikely to allow us to establish a message Dnieper, about Moldavians I will not even stutter.
          How will we support the economy of Transnistria ?!
          1. +7
            3 July 2013 19: 34
            What to do what to do ...
            Think.
            Recognize Russia as an independent state of Eastern Ukraine or not.
            Europe will definitely not think for a long time recognizing the independent state of Western Ukraine.
            1. 0
              3 July 2013 22: 43
              Quote: dustycat
              Recognize Russia as an independent state of Eastern Ukraine or not.

              Do you offer Moldova and western Ukraine to surrender to Romania?
              1. 0
                4 July 2013 15: 23
                Here the Romanians would be happy)))
            2. 0
              4 July 2013 08: 10
              And Crimea yet !!!
        4. +2
          3 July 2013 21: 29
          And what can Ukraine do? Will start to bring down our transporters, this is nonsense

          Any sovereign state has the right to regulate, as well as prohibit the transfer of goods / troops through its territory. I don’t know if you are aware, but ANY aircraft is obliged to obey the orders of the dispatchers. If there is an order to land, follow it! I understand what you want to say . The way out is to work out a consolidated policy with Ukraine, which means to conclude agreements.
          1. -1
            4 July 2013 08: 16
            Dear Right, this is not an Obligation. Secondly, in order to ensure the right of the state to declare its rights, one Rada will not be enough.
        5. 0
          4 July 2013 08: 08
          That's right, and I also think so. Who are Ukraine if Russia is nobody for it. Shoot down our planes after one salvo from our side they have a thin gut (may the Slavs forgive me).
          1. 0
            5 July 2013 17: 30
            I can’t even imagine this for Ukraine to fly down our planes. It’s such a thing, to beat oneself for the sake of all kinds of gayropic scum. And how can something be decided, separated, attached, what kind of crap on our part is comrades?
            There will be Russians in Transnistria to wet - we will react harshly. Moldova will give green on this - there will be measures on it.
      2. +30
        3 July 2013 16: 05
        Quote: avt
        How do you imagine this technically in the absence of a border with Transnistria?

        Kaliningrad as an example ... There is no border, but no one disputes and "spokes in the wheel" does not fuss. However, Russia has such "wheels" that we won't even notice any "sticks". You just need a clear "message" at the level of the President: "Ours! Nobody interfere!" And I think even that will be enough hi
        1. avt
          +4
          3 July 2013 16: 28
          Quote: seasoned
          Kaliningrad as an example ... There is no border, but no one disputes and "spokes in the wheels"

          Well, let’s put an example that is not successful, this is not a self-determined unrecognized republic, but quite a territory of Russia inherited from the USSR. Well, where is Transnistria’s exit to the sea? Now, if at least technical support is provided? Gagauzia does not count, the situation there is somewhat different and the Turks will most likely fit into it.
          1. +1
            3 July 2013 21: 03
            The Turks are long before the light bulb, they have other problems. To the tellers - a clear message: have you forgotten?
        2. +2
          3 July 2013 19: 18
          complete blockade of TO is impossible; there is still a maritime communication
      3. +2
        3 July 2013 16: 12
        Quote: avt
        This is not Ossetia and Abkhazia

        All true.
        One hope, the Black Sea Fleet is nearby.
        Apparently even at the G8 they tried to "exchange" Syria for the Dniester region.
        1. 0
          3 July 2013 22: 45
          Quote: Papakiko
          Apparently even at the G8 they tried to "exchange" Syria for the Dniester region.

          Radish horseradish is not sweeter!
      4. 0
        3 July 2013 16: 29
        But is the Kaliningrad region a myth?
      5. Airman
        +2
        3 July 2013 17: 49
        Quote: avt
        Quote: seasoned
        It is time for Russia to annex Transnistria, to establish military bases there, and if Romanian troops enter Moldova, roll them on asphalt. Stop lingering, there’s a limit to everything.

        request How do you imagine this technically in the absence of a border with Transnistria? This is not Ossetia and Abkhazia, much depends on Ukraine here, and its leadership will spoil us out of the gas principle there.

        The Kaliningrad region also does not have a land border with the Russian Federation.
        1. +2
          3 July 2013 19: 35
          Transnistria and the sea border does not have, in the event of a conflict, communication is really only through
          1. 0
            3 July 2013 21: 56
            damn the administration, zadolbali in the word I wanted you, that doesn’t suit you, strain the IT specialists if the machine is moderating, then you made nonsense if the person forgive him a brain problem (based on the fact that it’s possible to deceive by changing the register it seems that IT specialists made a crap)
      6. Corneli
        +6
        3 July 2013 18: 34
        Quote: avt
        here a lot depends on Ukraine, and its leadership from the gas principle will spoil us there

        You are like in that evil joke: "Ukraine has not done anything bad yet, but it has already" shit "(well, or will shit)"
        Ukraine conflicts (any), a number of nafig are not needed - this is a fact. But we don't need the progress of the Romanians with their Great Romance either ... So we'll see how it develops further. And the "filth" of Russia, in this matter, is a secondary factor.
        1. +3
          3 July 2013 21: 08
          OLEG, Romania has always been at someone's grab. Here from it one should expect the first dirty tricks, signaling, as in that joke
          1. +1
            4 July 2013 15: 27
            I agree with you. Romania is in the wings. But if she decides to send troops ..... This is a prelude to 3 world!
        2. 0
          4 July 2013 10: 05
          "So we'll see how it goes next ..." Here! This is the whole policy of Ukraine.
          What is it called everyone knows.
      7. +1
        3 July 2013 19: 21
        How how...
        What are the air defense of Ukraine? Randomly located radars. For orientation, they’ll go where to fly.
        Several Mi26 and IL76 will ensure the transfer of RPGs in sufficient quantities.
        And further - whether there are Romanian forces there, whether they are - does not have physical significance. This is Western Ukraine with UNA UNSO and to hang on the Romanians for a long time their hands itch. Well, tidy up the zemlyatse too.
        It will still be possible to equip Bessarabia and the Gagauzs with weapons.
        Just throw it "by mistake" ...
        There are many options.
        Yugoslavia Europe seems like an easy walk.
        1. +1
          3 July 2013 21: 40
          What are the air defense of Ukraine?

          And you remember October 4, 2001. I think they still had the S-200 ... By the way, the Kiev Economic Court did not plead guilty to the Ukrainian military in the case of the Tu-154 plane crash.
        2. 0
          4 July 2013 08: 04
          You are right, Bessarabia needs to be armed, for for Bessarabia the Romanians are like a bone in the throat with its politics, their agitators have been campaigning on the Besserabian people for 15 years among the Moldovan population but so far without result, in Bessarabia more than half of the population of Russians, Ukrainians, Bulgarians, Gagauzians and not it is impossible to take their opinions into account. And as for the sentiments, the local population is against Romania (in Izmail, Reni, Kilie, Vilkovo, more than 3000 people of the former paratroopers who fought in Yugoslavia are ready to take up arms in their hands against Romania, and even Lipovans living in Romania who deprived Ceausescu of their surnames giving them the Romanians, they will also support them, the Romanian state does not exist, just like the nation as a whole, there is only the Moldavian principality.
      8. 0
        4 July 2013 00: 35
        Quote: avt
        here a lot depends on Ukraine, and its leadership from the gas principle will spoil us there.

        So the fact of the matter is that Gazprom can close the pipe for emergency repairs wassat , and Yanukovych cannot but understand.
    3. +20
      3 July 2013 16: 00
      Quote: seasoned
      It’s time for Russia to join Transnistria,

      Together with Kishenev soldier
      By the way, and that there is an army in Romania, I have never seen brave Romanian soldiers request
      1. +32
        3 July 2013 16: 07
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        By the way, and that there is an army in Romania, I have never seen brave Romanian soldiers

        During the Second World War, these warriors went down in history as the most merciless looters. They took everything to the last rag from the population in the occupied territories.
        1. +10
          3 July 2013 16: 18
          Quote: seasoned
          During the Second World War, these warriors went down in history as the most merciless looters.

          In general, Romania, at least with someone, when it was at war itself, I don’t remember something what
          1. +10
            3 July 2013 16: 24
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            In general, Romania, at least with someone, when it was at war itself, I don’t remember something

            It’s like they waged war with the Turks (although it may be partisan), there the count became famous, who was later turned into Dracula. request And so they all the time entered into blocs and coalitions, that in the 1st world, that in the second
            1. +11
              3 July 2013 16: 35
              Quote: seasoned
              It’s like they waged war with the Turks (the truth is maybe partisan)

              In short, there is nothing to remember Romania about glorious victories, but they were regularly raked.
              1. +11
                3 July 2013 16: 37
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                In short, there is nothing to remember Romania about glorious victories, but they were regularly raked.

                Well, yes, no matter who they allied with, they always raked and they and those for whom they fought. In general, well, their figs of such allies wink
                1. +1
                  3 July 2013 21: 28
                  Al, are there not much honor for them, what are we talking about?
              2. +3
                3 July 2013 18: 52
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                In short, there is nothing to remember Romania about glorious victories, but they were regularly raked.

                Well yeah ... And Ducky? wassat
              3. +1
                3 July 2013 22: 49
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                In short, there is nothing to remember Romania about glorious victories, but they were regularly raked.

                What's the difference? They are in NATO, and this is not the last trump card!
            2. +8
              3 July 2013 16: 37
              By the way, my friend: during World War I, the question arose of what to do with Romania. If an Alliance needs Defense, 1 divisions are needed, and if enemies clearly drink it, 13 divisions are needed. So who needs such allies to tear down their navel!
            3. 0
              3 July 2013 21: 26
              In any, from dummies you’ll only wait in the back (the folder was correct, I didn’t say in vain)
            4. stroporez
              0
              5 July 2013 11: 48
              Prince Vladislav --- a very "traveling" warrior was ...... he is not a Romanian ............. although he was building Bucharest.
          2. rolik
            +12
            3 July 2013 17: 02
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            In general, Romania, at least with someone, when it was at war itself, I don’t remember something

            With Ostap Suleiman Bert Maria Bender Bay, in the Golden Calf.
            - Troianu Romagna Mare! Ostap said to the approaching officer. And as it seemed to Ostap, the officer smiled at him in the dark ..... but what happened next everyone remembers. It was a glorious battle of the brave Romanian border guards with the evil Russian savage (although it was hard to call Russian Ostap). ))))
          3. +8
            3 July 2013 18: 23
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            In general, Romania, even with someone

            It became most interesting winked , I had to go to "Vika". feel .Romania originated as vassal state of the ottoman empire in 1859 as a result of the unification of two principalities - Moldova and Wallachia. , (now it’s clear where the legs grow from, wink laughing ) Another historical area of ​​the modern Romanian state - Transylvania - was then part of Austria-Hungary. During the First World War, Romania initially maintained neutrality, then entered 28 on August 1916 of the year on the Entente side under the influence of the victories of the Russian army. Romania declared war on Austria-Hungary, but its army was quickly defeated. Romania was saved from liquidation by the Russian Empire, which allocated an army to support it, thereby expanding the Eastern Front to the Black Sea.

            As a result of the war, Romania acquired Transylvania, and reunited Bessarabia, which was part of Russia. In the 1917 year, - the Council of the Territory, the Council of the Country) - the state authority in Bessarabia (formerly part of the Principality of Moldova) proclaimed the Republic of Moldova, from 27 of March 1918 of the year - the Moldavian Democratic Republic and recognized the accession of Bessarabia to Romania. During World War II, Romania was an ally of Nazi Germany. Romanian troops participated in the war against the USSR. Two new provinces were created from the Soviet territories occupied by Romania: Bessarabia, which included the right-bank part of the Moldavian SSR, the Izmail region and the Chernivtsi regions of the Ukrainian SSR, and Transnistria, which included the left-bank part of the MSSR and parts of the Odessa, Nikolaev and Vinnitsa regions of the Ukrainian SSR.

            In August 1944, King Mihai I, united with the anti-fascist opposition, ordered the arrest of Antonescu and the pro-German generals and declared war on Germany. After that, Soviet troops were introduced into Bucharest, and the allied Romanian army, together with the Soviet, fought against the Nazi coalition on the territory of Hungary, and then in Austria.
            1. +3
              3 July 2013 21: 33
              Vityunya, without going to WIKI - she went there. Well, not worth our attention
            2. 225chay
              0
              4 July 2013 09: 46
              Quote: Tersky
              In August 1944, King Mihai I, united with the anti-fascist opposition, ordered the arrest of Antonescu and the pro-German generals and declared war on Germany. After that, Soviet troops were introduced into Bucharest, and the allied Romanian army, together with the Soviet, fought against the Nazi coalition on the territory of Hungary, and then in Austria.

              In short, always where the "breeze blows"
          4. 0
            3 July 2013 21: 23
            In convoys. Duty wagons must be loaded
          5. +1
            3 July 2013 21: 45
            In our childhood there was Commissar Miklovan, who extinguished all enemies to the right and left. But this is a movie, but I don’t remember.
            1. Yashka Gorobets
              +1
              3 July 2013 23: 43
              Miklovan was in the Russian translation, and in the original it was Moldavan, taking into account the fact that his friend Mihai Roman (Romanian, that is, in Russian), the picture was still looming. In one of the series, the Moldovan commissioner complained that several million fellow citizens are in the occupation, and in the courtyard of the film was the 40th year. So the Romanians even then sharpened knives.
          6. 0
            4 July 2013 00: 58
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Quote: seasoned
            During the Second World War, these warriors went down in history as the most merciless looters.

            In general, Romania, at least with someone, when it was at war itself, I don’t remember something what

            I can’t remember except Moldova.
            About fraud

            For more than 40 years, Stefan III with rare courage and, in fact, alone, resisted the onslaught of the Turkish colossus. The resources of Moldova and the Ottoman Empire were not comparable, but Stefan won 34 of 36 battles with the Turks. Not having achieved the unification of Christians against the Turks, Stephen, on his deathbed, bequeathed his son to obey Porta, but on honorable terms ...

            These are known facts. And the falsification consists in intrusive statements: while he allegedly did not order to be friends with the Russians, explaining that they were worse than the Turks ... And other nonsense, sometimes with reference to some wall inscriptions in Putna, where the great ruler was buried. It is well known who Stefan III considered worse than the Turks.
            Romanian of course
            In 1538, the Turkish army invaded Moldova, led by Sultan Suleiman himself, from the east the Crimean Tatars surged in, and from the north the Poles. First, Peter Raresh defeated the Ottomans at the Battle of Khotyn. But the Turkish army captured Suceava, and the metropolitan boyars hastened to express their loyalty to the Sultan. The Turks seated Stefan Lacusta on the Moldovan throne, Petr Rares fled the country. It was from this time that Moldova finally fell under the control of the Turks. The Sultan subjugated the areas between Prut and the Dniester, and Bujak, which the Turks took, as usual, in alliance with the Walls (Muntians or Romanians), gave to the Crimean Tatars
        2. +2
          3 July 2013 16: 30
          Quote: seasoned
          During the Second World War, these warriors went down in history as the most merciless looters. They took everything to the last rag from the population in the occupied territories.


          So they had a role model! Here is an example. Guess who and with whom here?
          1. 0
            4 July 2013 13: 13
            1941 year, Besarabia. German paratroopers and Romanian officers are studying the map of hostilities.
        3. +2
          3 July 2013 16: 30
          And they fought on the side of Hitler.
          1. series
            +13
            3 July 2013 17: 41
            were starting fight for Hitler, and finished for Stalin! soldier
            who even awarded them King Mihai - the Order of Victory!
            so, if this time we write out the "stars" more tightly, then we will easily turn our bayonets at NATO ...
            Just let it first "21"They will smear it with Vaseline, and then drill holes in the tunics for our medals! laughing
            1. +7
              3 July 2013 18: 36
              Quote: S-200
              Just let them first grease the "21" with Vaseline, and only then drill holes in the tunics for our medals! laughing

              I am amazed at you, colleague, how unobtrusively and elegantly you have created a sacred connection between our medals, "21" and Vaseline. Vertuoz !!!! fellow
              1. series
                +5
                3 July 2013 20: 17
                this "sacred connection",colleague, Joseph Vissarionovich at one time with all of Europe did ... lol
                not because of that and tease them - Gayropoy ? what
                and I just brought History lesson ... feel
                1. +1
                  4 July 2013 14: 40
                  Quote: S-200
                  and I just brought - a history lesson

                  Thank you! drinks A colleague in our history.
                  1. series
                    +1
                    4 July 2013 15: 29
                    hi THANK YOU - our grandfathers !
                    1. 0
                      5 July 2013 00: 20
                      Quote: S-200
                      hi THANK YOU - our grandfathers !

                      I, and Father from cover to cover (19 holes in the body) was there. July 4, the 21st year, as it is in this world. Now we are sitting, remembering relatives.
            2. +5
              3 July 2013 20: 57
              Military prostitute. Who is stronger and for whom victory is on the side of those becomes. The Warsaw Pact was gone, behind the back of NATO. And now, like a dog, begins to bark and snap back because of the owner.
        4. +4
          3 July 2013 16: 45
          In June 1941, the Hungarians fought against the USSR an army of 380 thousand people. The infantrymen in the Hungarian army were called Honved, the cavalrymen were called Hussars. In addition to the cavalry, the Hungarians had strong mechanized units, good artillery, and in their military spirit they were significantly superior to Italians and Romanians. The Hungarian army also fought in Ukraine, and in the summer of 1942, they stormed Voronezh. During the winter counterattack of the 1943 of the year, the 3-I Hungarian army was completely defeated by the Red Army. About 70 of thousands of Hungarian soldiers and officers were killed, about 30 of thousands of military personnel were captured.


          http://www.tyurma.com/plennaya-evropa

          and there

          After the war, the Main Directorate for Prisoners of War and Internment of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the USSR (GUPVI) drew up a certificate in which it analyzed the national composition of the enemy troops captured by the Red Army. The picture was very characteristic. The Germans were captured 2 389 560 people, Hungarians - 513 767, Romanian - 187 370, Austrians - 156 682, Czechs and Slovaks - 69 977, Poles - 60 280, Italians - 48 957, French - 23 136, Yugoslavs - 21 822. Moldovans - 14 129, Dutch - 4 729, Finns - 2377, Belgians - 2 010, Luxembourgers - 1652, Danes - 457, Spaniards - 452, Norwegians - 101 people.


          well, they paid for their sins, and Voronezh is a nightmare for them
        5. 0
          3 July 2013 21: 14
          Alyoshka, don’t be angry with branzulets, they’ll bite off your slippers
        6. 225chay
          +1
          4 July 2013 09: 40
          Quote: seasoned
          During the Second World War, these warriors went down in history as the most merciless looters. They took everything to the last rag from the population in the occupied territories.

          Right The old people said when the Nazis entered the Caucasus, the first Romanians and Hungarians came in, they were exclusively engaged in robbery and violence. Nemchura even had to exponentially shoot before the population after complaints about them one too zealous roman
      2. -3
        3 July 2013 16: 26
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        By the way, and that there is an army in Romania, I have never seen brave Romanian soldiers

        they have good special forces))
        1. +4
          3 July 2013 16: 33
          Quote: GEOKING95
          they have good special forces))

          Yes Yes
        2. +3
          3 July 2013 16: 44
          Quote: GEOKING95
          they have good special forces))


          Yeah))
          http://video.yandex.ru/#search?text=%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BC%D1%8B%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D
          0%B8%D0%B9%20%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%86%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%B7&where=all&filmId=4vu4YYU
          3UXI
          1. -3
            3 July 2013 17: 52
            Quote: Manager
            Yeah))
            http://video.yandex.ru/#search?text=%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BC%D1%8B%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D

            0%B8%D0%B9%20%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%86%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%B7&where=all&filmId=4vu4YYU

            3UXI

            always pierce
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gabOzuSi7Ig
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkoBx5BelTs
        3. +9
          3 July 2013 16: 44
          Quote: GEOKING95
          they have good special forces))

          Yes, maybe ... And by chance, the Georgian "rangers" did not study with them? .. Probably, they also graduated with "excellent" marks ...
          1. -7
            3 July 2013 17: 55
            Quote: Chicot 1
            Yes, maybe ... And by chance, the Georgian "rangers" did not study with them? .. Probably, they also graduated with "excellent" marks ...

            Ha ha ha
            and what does this have to do?
            we had two elite specialists 90
            Alpha and Omega
            Alpha, of course, was trained in the USSR (In Russia)
            and Omega (American). gray guys! Shevardnadze destroyed them!

            right now one was left Vashlisjvari
            1. 0
              3 July 2013 19: 45
              minus you not for what they wrote, but for how
              1. +2
                3 July 2013 21: 34
                Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                minus you not for what they wrote, but for how

                It’s good that you answered why I set the minus) and here some just put it and do not answer)))

                and the question is what, how?
                1. +3
                  3 July 2013 21: 53
                  when they speak with an accent it’s understandable, but when they’re not writing very
                  1. +1
                    4 July 2013 09: 46
                    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                    when they speak with an accent it’s understandable, but when they’re not writing very

                    Well I'm sorry I'm studying)
            2. +2
              4 July 2013 04: 39
              Quote: GEOKING95
              we had two elite specialists 90
              Alpha and Omega

              Already funny
              Quote: GEOKING95
              Vaslisjvari

              Wow, this is it, this is yours laughing
              1. 0
                4 July 2013 09: 50
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                Already funny

                and why? :))
                don't want don't believe

                Oh yes we can’t fight, and Georgians are not warriors, etc.
        4. +1
          3 July 2013 21: 54
          Quote: GEOKING95
          they have good special forces))

          You won’t be fed up with special forces, I won’t diminish their merits, fools do not serve in special forces, but they are not strong.
          1. 0
            4 July 2013 09: 49
            Quote: Phantom Revolution
            You won’t be fed up with special forces, I won’t diminish their merits, fools do not serve in special forces, but they are not strong.

            I did not say that they are the best or excellent or strong.
            1. 0
              4 July 2013 11: 13
              Quote: GEOKING95
              I did not say that they are the best or excellent or strong.

              Yes, I understood, and therefore decided to put a plus. It just doesn't matter what kind of special forces, the main force is "ordinary" fighters. If the latter fail, the former, in the best possible scenario, will not be able to withstand the regular army, in the same 08.08.08 the soldiers of the 58th Army did the main work, the special tasks were solved by the special. strength. ps The peacekeepers are also not recruiting boys for beating, although the peacekeepers are also limited and without the main force are not able to defend for a long time. But an attack on them will mean an attack on the Russian Federation and the result will be the disconnection of Transnistria already legally. As much as the Romanians want to, NATO will not give and will not even unleash a third world war because of them.
        5. 225chay
          0
          4 July 2013 09: 56
          Quote: GEOKING95
          they have good special forces))

          Romanians have good "bugbears", experts in robbery and safe breaking. There is now a whole Romanian "army" in Geyrope
      3. +2
        3 July 2013 16: 28
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        never seen brave romanian soldiers

        Here's an example
        1. sumcream56
          -6
          3 July 2013 17: 17
          What kind of Romanians are these? This is the Germans!
          1. +6
            3 July 2013 17: 21
            Quote: sumcream56
            What kind of Romanians are these? This is the Germans!

            This is a Romanian SS
      4. rolik
        +5
        3 July 2013 16: 58
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        By the way, and that there is an army in Romania, I have never seen brave Romanian soldiers

        They once had a "blue division")))))
        1. +5
          3 July 2013 17: 10
          Quote: rolik
          They once had a "blue division")))))

          Isn't Spain really?
          1. series
            +3
            3 July 2013 17: 57
            Spanish Phalanx Division
      5. +1
        3 July 2013 18: 17
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        By the way, and that in Romania there is an army,

        Sasha, hello Alex! Dummies have an army, fully transferred to a contract basis. There is the Air Force- (main MiG combat aircraft - 21 99 pcs. + Avioane Craiova SA IAR-99C Şoim,
        Avioane Craiova SA IAR-99 Standart, respectively 12 and 9 pcs.) 87 helicopters for various purposes, Navy -4 frigates, 4 corvettes, 3 patrol boats, 3 torpedo boats and even 877 project submarines (inherited from the USSR). Tanks - 569 pcs. T-55, Romanian version of the T-55. 1977 g. 226 pcs., Upgraded TR-580. 1986 g., 249 pcs., And the upgraded TR-85. 1999 g. 59 pcs.
        1. +2
          4 July 2013 04: 41
          Quote: Tersky
          Dummies have an army,

          Twist, it's a bunch of scrap metal laughing
      6. +2
        3 July 2013 18: 35
        The brave Romanian soldiers are not visible during the day - they sleep in the caves until night, after which they fly out to drink human blood. The rest are miserable semblances of soldiers
      7. +11
        3 July 2013 19: 06
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        By the way, and that there is an army in Romania, I have never seen a brave Romanian soldier


        On November 19 on November 1942, Operation Uranus began.
        And already on November 24, the Soviet troops of the Southwestern Front defeated those encircled in the region of Raspopinskaya
        Romanian troops and took 30 thousand prisoners and a lot of equipment.
        The brave Romanian warriors did not fight long.
        Paulus was thrown at the very beginning of the Battle of Stalingrad.
        In addition to the 2's of the Romanian armies, the 1 Italian army also surrendered.
        Needless to say: Field Marshal was unlucky with the Allies.
        Romanians, by the way, want to erect monuments to their victims in the Crimea and near Stalingrad.
        They are motivated by the fact that the Italians were allowed to do this and the monuments were erected.

        On the territory of Moldova, older people still remember the “Romanian liberators” and “dear relatives”:
        there was not a single cellar, closet or pan in which the Romanian soldiers did not stick their noses.
        They took away everything that they saw and did not stand on ceremony.
        The Germans also took, but first asked.
        Even my grandmother memorized this phrase:
        - Uterus! Is there a trigger? Come on!

        At the end of the 90's, Romania already hosted the Moldovan military for joint exercises.
        Our employee, it seems, served in the DSB and he was honored to go to Romania to exchange experiences.
        Romanian officer drove Moldovan fighters into a ditch with water and acted like an American sergeant
        from the Hollywood training camp: ordered to dive and hold his breath.
        And those who came up earlier than others hit with a boot in the face.
        He hit one guy very well: he lost consciousness and went to the bottom.
        His closest comrades dived, raised to the surface and pushed him ashore.
        Then the whole group got out of the moat and the boys together hung the mantle to the Romanian officer,
        and then they threw him into the same ditch with water.


        So in Romania there is an army.
        And Romanian soldiers are not that cowardly: they are calculating.
        He who is weaker is kicked.
        Those who are stronger are allied with that.
        There is a possibility - looting.
        1. +2
          3 July 2013 21: 53
          And already on November 24, the Soviet troops of the Southwestern Front defeated those encircled in the region of Raspopinskaya
          romanian troops
          And how symbolically the name of the settlement sounds.
        2. +2
          4 July 2013 04: 45
          Quote: Mister X
          Romanians, by the way, want to erect monuments to their victims in the Crimea and near Stalingrad.

          And they don’t want anything else
          This is how they distort history, first they erect monuments, who knows where, who knows who, who knows why. Then 300 years will pass and some "historians" will say that there was a battle, and the Romanians defended their homeland on the Volga.
      8. 0
        3 July 2013 20: 28
        Near Stalingrad, many such brave Romanian soldiers lie. It is time to recall this to the Romanians. They forgot how our soldiers beat them in the face or the strong became behind NATO. am
      9. +1
        3 July 2013 23: 22
        By the way, and that there is an army in Romania, I have never seen brave Romanian soldiers

        And it was and is now. By the way, in the Second World War, the Romanian army was the only one in Europe in which ... corporal punishment was preserved! request
      10. 0
        4 July 2013 08: 13
        I knew one such Romanian soldier who had served under Stalin and his military career ended 40 minutes after the first battle near Odessa when the sailor took his weapon and kicked his ass, which led to a fracture of the pelvic bones so he was captured, and he didn’t the only such warrior remaining after serving in Bessarabia
    4. +1
      3 July 2013 16: 44
      The Moldavians are a broken piece. Their appetites, just give! For Transnistria they will definitely climb.
      We are waiting for an adequate response from Putin, so this cannot be left to chance.
      So here are the Moldovans and what have we done so bad to them? ZAS ...- Tsy!
      1. 0
        3 July 2013 19: 46
        They did not join the European Union.
        Although Romania did not accept Schengen ...
    5. 0
      3 July 2013 18: 01
      Quote: seasoned
      It is time for Russia to annex Transnistria, to establish military bases there, and if Romanian troops enter Moldova, roll them on asphalt. Stop lingering, there’s a limit to everything.

      Have you forgotten about Ukraine?
      1. +3
        3 July 2013 19: 44
        Of course, how to attach the PMR without Ukraine. smile
    6. +1
      3 July 2013 18: 11
      Well, comrades, put the Iskanders?
    7. Airman
      +5
      3 July 2013 18: 13
      Quote: seasoned
      It is time for Russia to annex Transnistria, to locate military bases there, and in case of the entry of Romanian troops into Moldova, roll them out on the asphalt. Enough almond, there is a limit to everything. The more we close our eyes to the "pranks" of the Moldovans and Ukraine with the "closure of the borders" of Transnistria, the more they "itch" from impunity am
      It is necessary to demand from Ukraine clear conditions for military transit through its territory from Russia to Transnistria, to confront Moldova with the fact that the Romanians will get into you, we will consider the beginning of the database and occupation with all the ensuing consequences.


      All this is our opinion, protect Transnistria. But our powers that be pretend that there is no problem, they are more important cooperation with Tanzania. And if something begins in Transnistria, God forbid, no one but volunteers from Russia will come to the rescue. Judging by Snowden, the mattresses barked, and political asylum was denied. Belenko was not returned.
      1. +7
        3 July 2013 18: 26
        Quote: Povshnik
        All this is our opinion, protect Transnistria. But our powers that be pretend that there is no problem, they are more important cooperation with Tanzania.

        You're not right. Last spring, Rogozin, as a government official made a series of statements during his visit to Chisinau, thesis looked like this:
        - Russia against the interference of other countries in the affairs of Moldova;
        - The Russian peacekeepers will not leave Transnistria and will be provided with everything necessary to carry out their functions.
        - He announced his intention to discuss in Chisinau the question of creating a Russian consulate in Transnistria

        Quote: Povshnik
        And if something begins in Transnistria, God forbid, no one but volunteers from Russia will come to the rescue.

        Georgians also thought so ... The result is known to everyone, a bear can be teased for a long time, but if he rushed into a fight, then stopping him would be more expensive winked
        Quote: Povshnik
        Judging by Snowden, the mattresses barked, and political asylum was denied. Belenko was not returned.

        A big diplomatic and political game is going on. The trump cards are on the side of Russia. Nobody betrays Snowden to the United States, and that's why it's enough to sprinkle ashes on your head and shout "the mustache is gone, chief." While VVP "slaps on the cheeks" of the Americans from the grandstands, I especially liked his passage about Snowden being a human rights activist ... Hearing, he whinnied loudly. laughing
        Regarding Belenko: he died in 1997 as a result of a car accident, what do you need for his remains of the corpse to be returned to Russia? belay
        1. +5
          3 July 2013 20: 59
          About Belenko -
          "The car accident happened on a perfectly straight section of the Los Angeles-San Francisco federal highway. There were no intersections or adjacent roads for many kilometers. Therefore, the car smashed into a cake could not fail to puzzle the American traffic police. Perhaps they would be much less surprised. if they knew whose corpse had to be removed from the rubble.
          The name of the Soviet fighter pilot Viktor Belenko thundered to the whole world in 1976 year. Then he managed to escape to Japan on the latest MiG-25 of the time. At first, Moscow did not believe in betrayal. But then, after the President of the United States personally awarded Belenko American citizenship, they began to search for the former pilot around the world. But by that time he already bore a different name, had a different family, and was engaged in a different business.
          In 1997, an ordinary Japanese journalist managed to find the former pilot. In an almost 20-hour interview, the traitor accidentally mentioned that two years earlier he had visited ... Moscow on business. And some time after the landmark interview, a fatal accident happened. "
          An interesting denouement of history, is not it ...
          1. 225chay
            0
            4 July 2013 10: 10
            Quote: Apologet.Ru
            the US president personally awarded Belenko with American citizenship,

            So Snowden would not hurt us to reward
          2. 0
            5 July 2013 14: 05
            Quote: Apologet.Ru
            And some time after the landmark interview, a fatal accident happened. "

            - Not everything is so simple "According to some Russian sources, he died in a car accident under mysterious circumstances in 1997. In 2000 he gave an interview to an American correspondent at an air show in Wisconsin, USA, in which, in particular, he said:
            [In the USA] I met with the cosmonaut Igor Volk. He said: “You seem to have died!” - I replied: “Not so fast. The KGB spread rumors about my death to discourage others. "
    8. +7
      3 July 2013 18: 40
      That's right, experienced! Clearly lacking a firm hand: princely, tsarist, Stalinist, presidential ... Anything! Tired of all these diplomatic little games and reverences when the West, and the East, flouted all conceivable and unimaginable norms and laws, when the UN turned into a fiction, when, finally, the RUSSIANS and our BROTHERS are suffering (and threatened!) In the spirit of other nationalities.

      Diplomacy will no longer help. Here we need a good blow to the jaw of the overwhelmed mu.d.ch.y.y. Or will we again throw our people (albeit living in other republics) at the mercy of the zombies? ..
    9. +7
      3 July 2013 19: 12
      what guys, unfortunately, they’re capturing it, consider that they have already captured our country. I recently had a fight with an old friend, a cadet of an officer’s school, and for this reason they quarreled, forever, I called the Russians with an obscene word, just like a man in a clip. You would know how painful it is in your heart to see how Moldova is being merged.
    10. moldavan
      +10
      3 July 2013 19: 31
      Moldova will never be with Romania, with a strong Russia. Yes, and the people with Russia, each grandfather or father almost fought in the Great Patriotic War, it is sometimes offensive when you give us to the Romanians or call us
      1. 0
        3 July 2013 22: 00
        So don’t give up!
        1. moldavan
          +4
          3 July 2013 22: 22
          we won’t surrender but without RUSSIA we are nobody,
    11. +1
      3 July 2013 20: 46
      27 June 2013, the Moldovan Parliament ratified the agreement on military cooperation with Romania. Reportedly, the main thing in the agreement that passed the first reading is the creation of a legal basis for the permanent presence of Romanian troops in the Republic of Moldova. Earlier, Chisinau and Bucharest signed a document stating that the Romanian gendarmerie can get access to the territory of Moldova in case of "riots".

      hi Honestly, having learned about this sad fact, I, to put it mildly, fucked up belay , excuse me, colleagues, me for my French and "I smelled burning in the air." Oh, it's not for nothing that the hominy people fuss, no matter how the author of the article turns out to be a seer. For the "new Russia", the solution of the issue with Transnistria will be an exam for "coming of age" and for the right to carry out its imperial ambitions. Although, in my opinion, not everything is so sad, tk. there is a precedent in modern history - Kosovo. Another question is whether it will be allowed to be implemented in the case of Transnistria, since “According to the US governments and some EU states], the situation in Kosovo is unique and the recognition of its independence should not be a precedent for other self-proclaimed entities. As a justification for the uniqueness of Kosovo, US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice named a combination of the following factors: the general context of the collapse of Yugoslavia, ethnic cleansing and crimes against the civilian population of Kosovo, and the long period of the province being under UN administration ”...
    12. phantom359
      +1
      3 July 2013 22: 35
      Quote: seasoned
      It is time for Russia to annex Transnistria, to locate military bases there, and in case of the entry of Romanian troops into Moldova, roll them out on the asphalt. Enough almond, there is a limit to everything. The more we close our eyes to the "pranks" of the Moldovans and Ukraine with the "closure of the borders" of Transnistria, the more they "itch" from impunity am
      It is necessary to demand from Ukraine clear conditions for military transit through its territory from Russia to Transnistria, to confront Moldova with the fact that the Romanians will get into you, we will consider the beginning of the database and occupation with all the ensuing consequences.

      Yes something like that.
    13. 0
      3 July 2013 23: 38
      The Council of Non-Governmental Organizations of the Transnistrian Moldavian Republic (Moldova) having split from Moldova sent an appeal to the UN with a request to consider the issue of official recognition of this de facto independent state. The appeal is also addressed to the presidents of Russia and Ukraine. Apparently, Transnistria decided to take such a step with the tacit blessing of Moscow.

      Here is the answer.
    14. luka095
      +2
      4 July 2013 00: 11
      If Romania took such a step, it means that it received approval in NATO. Romanians themselves would hardly have done it. If so, then Europe has decided to launch a trial balloon and look at Russia's reaction ...
      And the reaction, in order to avoid many negative consequences, should be tough.
      Ball on the side of the Kremlin ...
    15. 0
      4 July 2013 04: 18
      experienced RU Yesterday, 15:48
      It is time for Russia to join Transnistria ...
      Our politicians will not take such a step. Putin and Snowden do not know how to behave, but then the step is more serious. Either it’s not the time to cast a vote, either ours and yours ...
    16. +2
      4 July 2013 09: 47
      The late General Lebed once said: "If Romania does not withdraw its troops from the border, then in 5 days my tanks will be at Bucharest." On the same night, unidentified planes circled over Bucharest. The next day, Romania withdrew its troops from the border with Moldova.
      One must act in this way and not ask permission from either Brussels or Washington.
  2. +9
    3 July 2013 15: 51
    from the Romanians of the war as from GA a bullet. they would have signed the Arabs
    1. +9
      3 July 2013 15: 54
      Of the Romanians, according to the experience of the Second World War, only punitive.
  3. Government FSO
    0
    3 July 2013 15: 54
    Romania is not a strong country, so calm down comrades!
  4. Nevsky
    +5
    3 July 2013 16: 03
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    Quote: seasoned
    It’s time for Russia to join Transnistria,

    Together with Kishenev soldier
    By the way, and that there is an army in Romania, I have never seen brave Romanian soldiers request


    Alexander, I didn’t see Romanian either, but he saw how the Yankees train Polish, maybe an American Negro also teaches Romanians to fight in the European climate and forest zone:

    Poles are taught to fight blacks:

    1. +14
      3 July 2013 16: 19
      Quote: Nevsky

      Poles are taught to fight blacks:

      By the way, Georgians were also taught to fight blacks laughing
      1. 0
        3 July 2013 21: 04
        Yes, where is the Georgian pride that its blacks are taught to fight. laughing
    2. +1
      3 July 2013 18: 20
      THE GERMAN ARMY I THINK THERE WERE NOT THAT THAT !!! AT ITS TIME CONSIDERED THE BEST ARMY OF THE WORLD Yes
    3. +1
      3 July 2013 21: 53
      I beg your pardon, look at these Valiant Jolneers: beautifully equipped rams. If it were not for blank cartridges each other would kill, the grenade launcher burns in general !!!
      "Have you had any accidents at the construction site? - There will be!"
    4. +2
      3 July 2013 22: 01
      laughing

      Cool video. (+).
      Such a thing, 30 years ago, was called in the army - "lightning" .. dismissively .. That is - like deTsTski. Blank cartridges. wassat
      -----
      As I remember now -
      They threw out a sabotage group .. 16 man .. and we caught them with the whole company. And of. the intermediary counted all sorts of losses there bully
      The landing party lasted two and a half hours .. until they were found and pressed to the river.
      "lightning" is one word. This is not serious.
    5. +1
      4 July 2013 13: 22
      And what does the instructor race have to do with it?
  5. ed65b
    +4
    3 July 2013 16: 08
    Article bullshit. Romanians in the direction of Russia can not even fart. And what kind of fighters we saw in the Great Patriotic War. And even more so, Europe with their problems does not give a damn about Moldova with their problems. And NATO is all in the smut and then Romanians.
    Minus.
    1. +3
      3 July 2013 17: 27
      Quote: ed65b
      Article bullshit. Romanians in the direction of Russia can not even fart.

      in the 90s, when the war took place in Transnistria, the local Romanian marshal shouted very loudly that the brave Romanian army is able to roll out the 2 40th armies in a couple of days,
      1. ed65b
        +2
        3 July 2013 18: 21
        Probably saliva choked and died or not died of courage laughing
    2. theodorh
      +2
      3 July 2013 18: 34
      Quote: ed65b
      Romanians in the direction of Russia can not even fart.


      Dwarf countries like Qatar are not just farting, but spitting your side. Beat your ambassadors. And you are talking about such a serious country as Romania. Besescu in 2008 said that if the Russian Federation tries to do in Moldova what it did in Georgia, Romania will be forced to intervene. This is not some expert, but the president of the country.
      1. ed65b
        +5
        3 July 2013 19: 05
        So what? Will this help them? Or should we be scared? And you need to take a tie from Sahak for hire. Do not tell the public about the threats of Romania.
        1. theodorh
          -9
          3 July 2013 19: 50
          Saakashvili has the right to eat a tie, his own tie. Like some he doesn’t steal the ring.
          1. +3
            3 July 2013 19: 55
            Quote: teodorh
            Saakashvili has the right to eat a tie, his own tie. Like some he doesn’t steal the ring.

            Yes, even if he eats his cowards after escaping from a Russian attack aircraft, we do not mind. But provocation with a ring, this is rather a minus to our system, it is necessary, as in most countries, gifts, the value of which exceeds a certain amount, to give to the state hi
            It is strange that "tolerated" was silent about "theft" for so long.
          2. +1
            3 July 2013 20: 02
            Well, with a ring, they generally froze stupidity
      2. +2
        3 July 2013 19: 52
        One Mikhas also said that just stick around.
        Now they send him ties.
      3. +1
        3 July 2013 20: 53
        It’s not a matter of the president of all Romanians, but whose physiognomy looks out because of his s.adnitsa ...
      4. +1
        3 July 2013 22: 12
        Quote: teodorh
        about such a serious country like Romania

        Are you serious, am I talking about a serious country? !!!!
        1. theodorh
          0
          3 July 2013 22: 24
          Well, if you read, then in addition to Russia and the United States there are no subjects of world politics, all of them are objects in your opinion.

          An intelligent person, I am forced to end our discussion today. We continue after.
    3. edge731
      0
      4 July 2013 23: 21
      The article put a minus. And the author of the article needs to carefully delve into the information received, and not mislead the respected visitors of this site. Here is an excerpt from the sitting of the parliament: "15:10. As reported in the PCRM faction, at the time the communists left the hall, there were only 47 other MPs. Thus, the law on a military cooperation agreement with Romania could not be adopted." Here is the link -http: //www.puls.md/en/content/zasedanie-parlamenta-ot-27-iyunya-2013
  6. VDV 80-82
    +4
    3 July 2013 16: 10
    Romanians, though, but not enough to shoot at a Russian military base! otherwise, the retaliation will be cruel ... and NATO will spit on the Romanians ... yeah, right now they’ll go to fight for the gypsies with Russia ... the author is simply escalating!
    1. adg76
      +9
      3 July 2013 16: 29
      A normal person can vryatli find logic in the actions of NATO. Therefore, the option of an attack (you cannot say otherwise) on Moldova and Transnistria of Romania, with the subsequent presentation of territorial claims to Ukraine, is quite real. Syria is an example. Speeches by Western leaders that government forces are destroying unarmed civilians, is not the hypocrisy the top? And arrogant, with smiles, in the camera of journalists
      1. series
        +1
        3 July 2013 18: 13
        For Pridnestrovie, Russia to Moldovans and Romanians on "do not spoil at all" will insert WITHOUT LOOK at NATO and "big brother"! Transnistria "de facto" - Russian enclave!
        There ALL are citizens of Russia!
      2. +1
        3 July 2013 19: 54
        As soon as they make territorial claims, only the Euro will remain from the European Union.
        Moreover, in the amount that will be in the form of cash in the pockets of those living in Romania.
        Romania is not in Schengen. Barriers and checkpoints of the European Union are working.
    2. Urcom
      +6
      3 July 2013 16: 34
      I don’t think that the Romanians are ready to do something with their gypsy armed forces against the PMR and our peacekeepers without the approval of NATA and the EU, and these gentlemen, along the way, decided to raise the degree of the situation in the Gypsy-PMR-Moldova triangle in revenge for our position on Syria and for shame with Snowden.
    3. +5
      3 July 2013 18: 06
      Quote: VDV 80-82
      Romanians, though, but not enough to shoot at a Russian military base! otherwise, the retaliation will be cruel ... and NATO will spit on the Romanians ... yeah, right now they’ll go to fight for the gypsies with Russia ... the author is simply escalating!


      about Romanians, you are probably right, the problem is that the Romanian government expresses not only its national interests but also the interests of the US State Department and NATO
      and for that, actions need only legitimate reasons, so in the event of a conflict we can well find out that in Romania there are several divisions of the original Romanian blacks or the native Romanian Arabs

      the impression that we do not have enough people to keep all directions, and Moldova somehow remained unattended, I really hope that this is not so .......
      1. Zopuhhh
        0
        4 July 2013 15: 36
        Nuclear weapons have not been canceled ... In a couple of directions of nuclear weapons, the rest to keep - otherwise nothing.
    4. +1
      3 July 2013 18: 35
      I completely agree. But there was an example with Georgia. There are exceptions in life.
    5. 225chay
      -1
      4 July 2013 10: 18
      Quote: VDV 80-82
      Gypsies will go to war with Russia.

      gypsies - immigrants from India
      Romanians - Romanesque group
  7. +1
    3 July 2013 16: 20
    yes bullshit is all. everyone has a few passports in their hands and calmly travel on both sides. Well, the fact that an agreement was signed so it was supposed to happen for a long time is one people, which is surprising. and the PMR under the cap of the Russian Federation. everyone is happy .
  8. adg76
    +10
    3 July 2013 16: 22
    If Romania starts the OCCUPATION of Moldova, then it is simply necessary to find persons with Moldovan citizenship who will ask Russia for military assistance. Legal aspects are not relevant here. There is the right of the strong. It is popular and behind the scenes to explain to Ukraine that if Romania is not given a hand, then Ukraine will be next in line for the occupation. And she should not only let the Russian troops pass, but also provide comprehensive support to restore Moldova's independence from the occupying forces of Romania. The answer must be HARD and LIGHTNING, without regard to "European Democracy". The fact that the leadership of Ukraine is in nirvana and does not understand that another redivision of the world is beginning, speaks of myopia and its criminal inaction
    1. +1
      3 July 2013 20: 54
      Why wait, she ALREADY started!
  9. +6
    3 July 2013 16: 24
    Quote: gecko
    Of the Romanians, according to the experience of the Second World War, only punitive.

    And this is not honey! In the Second World War, they were just atrocities much worse than the Germans!
    Quote: GovernmentFSO
    Romania is not a strong country, so calm down comrades!

    Zvizdets! In 1992, they gathered "partisans" and drove them to fight against Transnistria, and now if the turmoil begins again and the Romanians enter,
    it will be abruptly 08.08.08! In the first Transnistrian war, up to a thousand people were killed, and now it can be much worse.
    Moreover, Romania is already a member of NATO!
    1. Zopuhhh
      0
      4 July 2013 15: 46
      In 1992, this all happened with the obvious connivance of the Russian leadership, this time this should not be ...
  10. +6
    3 July 2013 16: 27
    The Romanian army is historically strong and militant. Its highly mobile compounds are especially dangerous -
    cavalry manned exclusively on a professional basis from persons of gypsy nationality
  11. misham
    +1
    3 July 2013 16: 29
    The article is provocative. Nobody is going to fight with anyone. Moldavians just take a show off. It would be nice to read the text of that treaty in Russian.
    Romania in NATO, hardly anyone wants to get involved in a war with Russia for the sake of great Romania. Ukraine, too, can be a bit involved, reinforced fur. put forward the brigade. Neighbors after all.
    Another thing is that the problem of Transnistria must be solved. In addition to the territorial problem, the PMR is a source of smuggling (from alcohol to Asian migrants) near the EU border.
    Let Moldovans boost their economies (it is unlikely soon), provide a high standard of living for their population, with guarantees to national minorities, as in the EU, PMR can integrate into Moldova.
    1. Akim
      0
      3 July 2013 17: 13
      Quote: misham
      It would be nice to read the text of that treaty in Russian.

      Key provisions signed in April:
      The main provisions of the Treaty relate to arms control, training of military personnel, improvement of legislation in the field of national defense, as well as scientific research in the use of airspace.

      I agree - the provocateur wrote an article, but the moderators thoughtlessly reprint. There is no secret item. as in the Molotov-Ribentrop Pact.
    2. gray
      0
      3 July 2013 19: 17
      Ukraine, too, can be a bit involved, reinforced fur. put forward the brigade. [/ quote]
      Which is interesting?
      1. sasin2008
        +1
        3 July 2013 20: 26
        Ukraine, if it wants, can level Romania and Moldova, for the time being we can afford it!
  12. +10
    3 July 2013 16: 31
    The descendants of Roman legionnaires (any Romanian gypsy by blood from Julius Caesar) are very brave and warlike, though before the unarmed. The Romanian army gained even greater fame, like thieves and looters!
    1. +3
      3 July 2013 18: 02
      Quote: omsbon
      Descendants of Roman legionnaires (any Romanian gypsy he is by blood from Julius Caesar)

      !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ++++++++++++++++++++++
      Thank!! Laughing for a long time!
      1. +2
        3 July 2013 18: 10
        Quote: retired
        Thank!! Laughing for a long time!

        You are welcome. Laughter prolongs life.
        Live long!
  13. +3
    3 July 2013 16: 32
    In general, my friends’s little article is clearly custom-made, to probe the reaction and pat the nerves. It’s not the thing to compete with us, but they forgot how we all and all of them fought together for ages. And as for the Romanian army, it still didn’t came to the end of the Second World War. But they have one advantage: they run very fast.
  14. armandos
    +5
    3 July 2013 16: 33
    There is definitely a problem and sooner or later it will be necessary to show will at the level of the president. Romanians have long wanted to gobble up Moldova, they have long considered RM a priori their territory, which in general is not so far from the truth. I would be on Putin’s place, defiantly equipping the Russian base with new weapons, moreover, so that through the entire channel they could see how the weapons arrive at the base. I think this is enough for the hotheads to calm down. Problems will be with Ukraine, it will bargain to the last, but I think this is also solved. Recently, I notice that everything around (meaning around the borders with Russia) began to slowly greyhound. It looks like a scene from Mowgli when a bunch of red dogs attacked the Ball. The will and determination of the country's leadership is needed!
  15. +3
    3 July 2013 16: 35
    the gypsies in a noisy crowd went on the offensive.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  16. DmitryMSK
    +1
    3 July 2013 16: 36
    Moldovans I watch more and more greyhounds every day am

    It would be necessary to find leverage on the presumptuous molds of Moldova and cool the ardor. A Romanian to send to .ope
  17. shamil
    +3
    3 July 2013 16: 42
    let Vova go to Transnistria on a friendly visit and all-all die out
    1. Gipmol
      +5
      3 July 2013 20: 34
      Not "Vova" and VOVA !!!
  18. +4
    3 July 2013 16: 43
    Romanians know how to fight or not, it’s not so important. They will use them in view of their ethnic proximity with the Moldovans, it’s also beneficial for them, they will expand the territory. The West is in a hurry to swallow another piece of the empire, and it may be choking. Transnistria is like a bone in its throat. Russia needs to hurry, take measures to prevent the Ossetian scenario of 2008 of the year, and establish economic, political and military ties with Transnistria.
  19. +8
    3 July 2013 16: 54
    Alas, Moldovans show their complete inconsistency as an ethnic group and as a state. One must be in the delirium of a fever-inflamed mind, in order to think that after unification they will mean something for a dominant ethnic group. Moreover, the Romanians, the people are very cruel, and the political system supported by Europoids will be a supporter of simple and clear decisions, for example, a small genocide disguised naturally as democratic assistance in relation to those who disagree with the fact that now the main Romanians.

    Regarding the Romanian army, I agree. She is strong and fighting with her is not easy, but there is one thing but! No matter how well prepared their army is, this is an army of victories. Defeat and loss will cause cruelty at first, then everyone does not want to fight. You can recall the events of the Great War. While they were moving forward, and our army was rapidly retreating, the Romanians were on top. They were normally on the defensive and advanced, but as soon as a turning point was noticed and the number of casualties increased, then problems began and the difference with the Germans was immediately visible to the soldiers. Nevertheless, if one assumes a collision, it is necessary to prepare very seriously and in no case not to expect that the enemy will be weak.
  20. +8
    3 July 2013 16: 58
    Now, in the event of a war with Transnistria, the Romanian army will openly enter

    In 1992, they also entered, but illegally, as advisers. Then the first ones fled, because Cossacks announced that they would not be taken prisoner, but immediately destroyed.
    1. sasin2008
      +2
      3 July 2013 20: 30
      There was a matter, Our affairs got along there, by the way, both Russians and Ukrainians ...
  21. +9
    3 July 2013 17: 06
    Of course the article is serious ... and characterizes a fait accompli. Although, Romania did not prevent anything from being drawn into the Transnistrian conflict in the early 90s. Now they legally make it legal. Just that
    1. Moldova, Moldavians are not Georgians ... and the PMR, not Ossetia. There is no gorge to block and cut off aid. Ukraine ... Cossacks ... all at once ... The mood in Russia and the Eurasian Union and joining it is very strong in the country itself. There is a government clique - which is against, with minimal support from the population. A lot of Russian-speaking people. In a word underground. To the government that unleashed the past conflict, it cost the authorities ...
    2. To start a war, there must be a capable center of power. He is not there. This is not the government of Georgia since 08.08.2008 with a strong presidential authority and the Parliament with full support. The president is weak. A coalition of parties rules, gaining 10-12% in the people
    3. The country has its own Frond in the person of the second Transnistria, called Gagauzia. He also advocates for secession ... for 2015, a referendum on secession from Moldova has been scheduled ...
    4. NATO will not allow its member, Romania, without agreement, to start a war with Transnistria with it. And Russia is not the same as it was even in 2008, the United States and NATO understand this ...
  22. +5
    3 July 2013 17: 12
    Russian people in Transnistria must be sure: Russia will protect its compatriots by any means. Let the Romanians unite with the Moldavians. But do not touch the Russian people from Transnistria. They also wanted to pacify South Ossetia. Did not work out.
  23. sumcream56
    -8
    3 July 2013 17: 13
    Lord comrades! The Romanian army after August 1944 turned bayonets against Hitler. And they fought well in Hungary, participated in the Balaton operation and in the liberation of Yugoslavia. By May 1945, almost the entire Romanian Air Force fleet had been knocked out. By the way, the Romanians took Odessa and Sevastopol. Moreover, over Odessa in 1941, a Romanian pilot rammed a Soviet plane.
    In general, I don’t understand the logic of the Transnistrians. They lived in the Moldavian SSR, but why are the Romanians worse? Orthodox, quite civilian people. The language for learning is very easy. By the way, this is not such a backward country. Back in 1941, she built fighter jets. And now Renault Logan of the Romanian assembly is sold in Russia.
    1. Akim
      +1
      3 July 2013 17: 27
      Quote: sumcream56
      Moreover, over Odessa in 1941, a Romanian pilot rammed a Soviet plane.

      I would show you a photo - but not in Neta, but in the Odessa Museum there. It was forbidden for 50 years: a Soviet soldier knocked down a Romanian street sign, and civilians stood below. And the woman is in French boots. By the way, in Odessa the card system for issuing products appeared on April 12, 1944.
      It is right that Odessa was freed from the invaders, but only one chernukha should not be allowed.
    2. +2
      3 July 2013 17: 33
      Romanians participated in the occupation of Ukraine and Crimea as part of the Wehrmacht.
    3. gray
      +2
      3 July 2013 19: 20
      Romanian assembly and French brains ... no need to talk about the awesome achievements in industry.
  24. +9
    3 July 2013 17: 18
    A bit of history: on January 28, 1918, Romanian troops entered Bessarabia.
    During the Khotinsky uprising of 1919, during the uprising and its suppression, more than 11 thousand inhabitants of Bessarabia were killed, 22 villages were destroyed by artillery fire. A significant part of the surviving rebels joined the brigade of G.I. Kotovsky.
    Gas attacks against people during the Tatarbunar uprising in 1924. THEN on the side of the rebels came the Communist Party of Romania.
    “Maybe if I were no longer a revolutionary, I would become him, returning from this tragic chaos of southern Europe.” Henri Barbus.
    I don’t think that Romanians have changed during this time.
    Today, about 170 of thousands of Russian citizens and 100 of thousands of citizens of Ukraine live in Transnistria. This is the territory of the Russian Orthodox Church.
    Ukraine and the Russian Federation need to act as the ONE front to protect their citizens.
    PS June 28 marks 73 years since the day when, in accordance with the demand of the USSR, Romania withdrew its troops and administration from Bessarabia!
    1. gray
      +4
      3 July 2013 19: 22
      The Ukrainian people in the majority - yes, but as for the Ukrainian authorities ... something gnaws at me, it hurts a lot in the mouth of NATO and the EU
    2. Gipmol
      0
      3 July 2013 20: 45
      This is despite the fact that in Transnistria we have 516 thousand. of the population in 2011, of which about 35-40% in Russia are earned
  25. theodorh
    -24
    3 July 2013 17: 26
    Long live Greater Romania.

    It has long been necessary to crush these separatists.

    Regarding the looting of the Romanian troops, in this Russian warriors can give them a master class.
    1. +1
      3 July 2013 17: 51
      Qualitative perspectives "It's no secret that I do not intend to let go of what I have acquired. Transnistria will become a Romanian territory, we will make it Romanian and evict all foreigners from there. In order to achieve this goal, I am ready to bear all the burdens on my shoulders..." Antonescu
    2. gray
      +1
      3 July 2013 19: 23
      to hell with you, and not great Romania ... All the greats have long been assigned
    3. +2
      3 July 2013 19: 48
      No, I don’t like Kirkorov, he’s some kind of sweetman, in a word, Romanian !!!!
      1. theodorh
        0
        3 July 2013 19: 52
        Kirkorov Bulgarian actually
        1. +3
          3 July 2013 21: 36
          Quote: teodorh
          Kirkorov Bulgarian actually

          What a difference! (C)
    4. 0
      3 July 2013 22: 12
      all the same, how old are you? !!!
      Quote: teodorh
      Long live Greater Romania.

      It has long been necessary to crush these separatists.

      Regarding the looting of the Romanian troops, in this Russian warriors can give them a master class.
  26. +4
    3 July 2013 17: 29
    Let only poke around (I hope they did not forget Stalingrad ..)
    1. +4
      3 July 2013 17: 56
      they were gouged near Voronezh.
  27. +7
    3 July 2013 17: 31
    It would be nice for the Moldovans to know their history. They so want to be citizens of the "second class" Only here there is neither the USSR nor Comrade Stalin has long been lying near the Kremlin wall, there will be no one to help out if they themselves stick their heads in a trap. If you read the propaganda campaigns of the current supporters of Romanization, then you will not know the truth. Moldovans will disappear from the face of the earth like mammoths, only Romanians will remain.
    1. theodorh
      -10
      3 July 2013 17: 38
      Quote: Jarserge
      They so want to be second-class citizens

      As if under the USSR they were citizens of the "first grade"
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. +5
          3 July 2013 21: 08
          Quote: teodorh
          Yes, my ancestors lost the national liberation against you.


          sorry, when was that? What years. (Without any jokes, it’s interesting, but I didn’t find it on the Internet).
          Quote: teodorh
          Genocide was committed against the Kazakhs.

          If you, as in Ukraine, mean "Holodomor", then - excuse me. There was famine everywhere (as in Europe and the USA) Or do you also think that it was the Kazakhs who were starving, and the Russians, Ukrainians, etc. living nearby. heavily fattened?

          Quote: teodorh
          500 nuclear test was performed above and below ground. Why on the Kazakh land?

          So after all, these lands were the least populated! Because there they did. Can you give examples of those affected by these tests?
          1. theodorh
            -5
            3 July 2013 21: 26
            Quote: Egoza
            sorry, when was that?


            The national liberation struggle did not stop until 1986. More than 300 revolts were committed. The longest and largest was under the leadership of the last khan of the Kazakhs Kenesery Kasymuly in the middle of the 19th century. But unfortunately she failed.

            Quote: Egoza
            You also think that it was the Kazakhs who starved them, and the Russians, Ukrainians, etc. living nearby. hard fed?


            Well look at the official data. Doesn’t it seem strange to you that from 1926 to 1939 Kazakhs decreased by 1 million, Ukrainians by 3 million, while the Russians increased by 22 million.

            Now I am answering your question, but the Kazakhs and Ukrainians were starved, and the rest were fed.

            Quote: Egoza
            So after all, these lands were the least populated! Because there they did. Can you give examples of those affected by these tests?


            You are either a cynic or an ignoramus.
            1. +3
              3 July 2013 22: 03
              Quote: teodorh
              The national liberation struggle did not stop until 1986

              1 how old are you
              2 where did you study history
              Quote: teodorh
              1926 - until 1939 Kazakhs decreased by 1 million

              how many of this million migrated to China and Mongolia? !!!!
              Quote: teodorh
              Now I answer your question, yes, Kazakhs and Ukrainians starved, and the rest were fed

              and after that you ask why you are considered a moron? !!!
              sorry and who to consider you? !!!
              Quote: teodorh
              You are either a cynic or an ignoramus.

              keep silent about ignorance
              1. theodorh
                0
                3 July 2013 22: 19
                Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                where did you study history


                Certainly not from Russian sources.

                Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                how many of this million migrated to China and Mongolia


                Kazakhs migrated there after the first famine in the early 1920s.
          2. Marek Rozny
            -3
            3 July 2013 22: 34
            Quote: Egoza
            So after all, these lands were the least populated! Because there they did. Can you give examples of those affected by these tests?

            nifiga behold the "least populated land"! these are the inhabited lands of the two largest Kazakh families - the Argyns and the Naimans! a polygon of 20 thousand square kilometers! it's like practically the whole of Moldova. and the area of ​​the affected lands is 300 thousand square kilometers! The radioactive clouds of 55 air and ground explosions and the gas fraction of 169 underground tests went beyond the limits of the test site. It was these 224 explosions that caused radiation pollution of the entire eastern part of the territory of Kazakhstan. The total number of kilotons exploded is 2500 Hiroshima!
            1 people were recognized as victims of nuclear tests, but only 323 people received certificates confirming the right of victims. Really - or it's just your ignorance of the subject, or cynicism. Comparing with Novaya Zemlya, where there were no civilians at all and where fewer bombs were detonated, is generally incorrect. And this is not the only place where nuclear charges exploded in the KZ. In western Kazakhstan, in the Caspian littoral, giant pits were dug by the nuclear explosion method in the 60s.
            1. 0
              3 July 2013 22: 37
              And with the Orenburg region can be compared?
              1. Marek Rozny
                +1
                3 July 2013 22: 45
                I myself am a native of the Orenburg region. It is absolutely incorrect to compare the explosion of one single bomb at the Totsky training ground with 500 explosions of more powerful charges in Semipalatinsk.

                "... How many people died from the consequences of the explosion in the Orenburg villages surrounding the Totsky training ground is unknown, but residents of the villages of Bogdanovka and Fedorovka, which were 12-15 km from the epicenter of the explosion, were offered to temporarily evacuate 50 km from the site of the exercise. As for long-term consequences, “The average increase in mortality in the region from malignant neoplasms (in 1970 - 103,6, in 1991 - 173 per 100000 inhabitants), equal to about 3,5% per year, corresponds to the average in the Russian Federation and in other European states "..."
                1. +1
                  3 July 2013 23: 21
                  Do you know that 48 industrial nuclear explosions were carried out in the European part of the RSFSR, and 32 in the Asian part? What rockets with nuclear warheads fired at Kapyar? Moreover, the explosions were high-altitude aerial.
                  1. Marek Rozny
                    0
                    3 July 2013 23: 51
                    Quote: Spade
                    Do you know that 48 industrial nuclear explosions were carried out in the European part of the RSFSR, and 32 in the Asian part?

                    1 Peaceful nuclear explosions by region
                    1.1 Arkhangelsk region (600 km from Arkhangelsk and the Nenets Autonomous Okrug) - 4 explosions
                    1.2 Astrakhan region (underground explosions) - 15 explosions
                    1.3 Bashkortostan - 7 explosions
                    1.4 Irkutsk region - 2
                    1.5 Kemerovo region - 1
                    1.6 Murmansk region - 1
                    1.7 Ivanovo Region - 1
                    1.8 Kalmykia - 1
                    1.9 Komi - 3
                    1.10 Krasnoyarsk Territory - 6
                    1.11 Orenburg Region - 4
                    1.12 Perm Region - 12
                    1.13 Stavropol Territory - 1
                    1.14 Tyumen region - 1
                    1.15 Yakutia - 11
                    1.16 Kazakh SSR - 73
                    1.17 Uzbek SSR - 2
                    1.18 Ukrainian SSR - 2
                    1.19 Turkmen SSR - 1
                    http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B5_%D1%8F%D0%B4%D

                    0%B5%D1%80%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B5_%D0%B2%D0%B7%D1%80%D1%8B%D0%B2%D1%8B_%D0%B2_%D0%A1%

                    D0%A1%D0%A1%D0%A0
                    Clearly? Especially if you calculate the total power of the explosions and compare them with military training grounds in the KZ. And even more so, if we compare the number of affected people.

                    And about how many explosions were carried out in the Kazakh SSR in Kap.Yare I already wrote.
                    1. +1
                      4 July 2013 00: 01
                      Wikipedia is cool. But your data is not true. Once again, 80 industrial explosions in the RSFSR, 15 Kazakhstan, 2 Ukraine, 2 Uzbekistan, 1 Turkmenistan. Everything else is figures taken from the ceiling.
                      1. Marek Rozny
                        +2
                        4 July 2013 00: 55
                        Quote: Spade
                        Wikipedia is cool. But your data is not true. Once again, 80 industrial explosions in the RSFSR, 15 Kazakhstan, 2 Ukraine, 2 Uzbekistan, 1 Turkmenistan. Everything else is figures taken from the ceiling.

                        Shovels, well, what the hell did you run into? Is it unpleasant to be wrong? Understand.
                        The number "15" referring to Kazakhstan is not the total number of explosions, but the number of industrial projects In Kazakhstan!
                        Kazakh SSR:
                        1) "Azgir". 17 explosions (22 nuclear charges). Galit site 180 km north of Astrakhan, Guryev region, 1966-1979 0,01-150 ctw
                        2) “Batolit-2”. 320 km south-west of Aktyubinsk, Aktobe region, October 3, 1987, 8,5 kt, depth 1002 m. Seismic sounding.
                        3) "Lapis lazuli". The tract Murzhik, Semipalatinsk test site, December 7, 1974, 4,7 kt, depth 75 m. Moving part of the hillside for the construction of the dam.
                        4) “Lira”. 6 explosions to create cavities for underground gas storages at the Karachaganak gas condensate field in the West Kazakhstan region.
                        5) “Sai Utes” (unofficial name “Mangyshlak”). 3 explosions. 100-150 km southeast of the village. Sai Utes, Mangyshlak region, 1969-1970, 30-80 ct. To create a failed funnel.
                        6) "Meridian-1". 110 km east of Arkalyk, Tselinograd region, August 28, 1973, 6,3 ct. Seismic sounding.
                        7) "Meridian-2". 230 km southeast of Dzhezkazgan, Shymkent region, September 19, 1973, 6,3 ct. Seismic sounding.
                        8) "Meridian-3." 90 km southwest of Turkestan, Chimkent region, August 19, 1973, 6,3 kt. Seismic sounding.
                        9) "Region-3". 250 km southwest of Uralsk, Ural region, August 20, 1972, 6,6 ct. Seismic sounding.
                        10) "Region-5". 160 km southeast of the city of Kustanay, Kustanai region, November 24, 1972, 6,6 ct. Seismic sounding.
                        11) “Sary-Uzen” (aka “Well 1003”). Semipalatinsk test site, October 14, 1965, 1,1 ct. Excavation, calibration to create a funnel for the reservoir.
                        12) “Telkem-1”. Semipalatinsk test site, October 21, 1968, power 2 x 0,24 ct. Calibration soil discharge to create a funnel for the reservoir.
                        13) “Telkem-2”. Semipalatinsk test site, November 12, 1968, power 3 x 0,24 ct. Excavation gauge for trenching
                        14) "Chagan". Semipalatinsk test site, January 15, 1965, capacity 140 kt. The explosion in well 1004 created an artificial body of water that was filled with water from a specially created reservoir at Chagan. To create a reservoir, a stone and earthen dam with a concrete spillway was built. The first (and most powerful of all) industrial nuclear explosion.
                        15) "adit". 36 explosions at the Semipalatinsk test site, 1964-1984, the power of 0,01-150 ct.
                        Total: 73 nuclear peaceful explosions in the territory of the Kazakh SSR.

                        And an error crept into your data. 15 is not the number of explosions, but the number of "industrial projects" (I don’t know how to call it better).
                        And pay attention to the regions of the RSFSR, where these peaceful explosions were carried out. The overwhelming majority is the land of the Turkic and Finno-Ugric peoples. This is undoubtedly Russia, but far from the "Russian lands", including Astrakhan, Orenburg region or Siberia. I don’t want to start a holivar, but the lands of the national minorities of Russia and the “Russian lands” are not the same thing. It sounds "pretty" - blew up in the European part of the RSFSR, Arkhangelsk region... Yeah, the city of Kotlas, near which they blew up - the land of the Finno-Ugric people, I'm not talking about the lands of the Nenets - formally this also falls into the statistics "European part of the RSFSR." Etc.
                      2. 0
                        4 July 2013 01: 18
                        Tell me. What industrial nuclear explosions could be carried out at the Semipalatinsk test site? It seems that this error crept into your data.

                        We are talking about nuclear explosions with purely utilitarian tasks. As, for example, the last Soviet industrial nuclear explosion: September 06.09.88, 8,5 Arkhangelsk Region, RSFSR, power XNUMX KT. Conducted for seismic probing with the task of finding minerals.

                        I have a list of all 715 nuclear explosions in the USSR. With the date, place, type and task of the explosion. Are you ready to mind me at this level? It is unlikely that this is not on Wikipedia. So accept my numbers with 80 industrial explosions outside the ranges on the territory of the RSFSR for confidence.

                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        Yeah, the city of Kotlas, near which they blew up - the land of the Finno-Ugric

                        Turn to like-minded, Ukrainian Natsik. They will explain to you that Russian and Finno-Ugric peoples are one and the same.
                      3. Marek Rozny
                        +2
                        4 July 2013 01: 43
                        Quote: Spade
                        What industrial nuclear explosions could be carried out at the Semipalatinsk test site?

                        Peaceful, peaceful nuclear explosions. This is any explosion for non-military purposes. Not all peaceful bombings were industrial. But all industrial explosions are considered to be peaceful.
                        Military bombings - counted separately.

                        What if I'm a nationalist? Have you collapsed from the oak tree? What I say about nuclear tests and the "excesses" of the Bolsheviks - am I supposedly a Russophobe? Take it easy. They tried to measure the Kazakhs by their own standards. If we ourselves are personally susceptible to the disease "we are a great people who gave nishtyaks to all Papuans," then do not think that Kazakhs allegedly also divide peoples into "great" and "not so". The Kazakhs, the Jews, the Russians, the Germans, and the Negroes do not cause any negative emotions. We can only be nationalists towards the Chinese. We have been fighting for 2500 years. It is easy for a Kazakh to warm up hatred towards them. And we have no hatred, fear or contempt for Russians. Where does nationalism come from? You are wonderful people.
                      4. RA77
                        +2
                        4 July 2013 02: 44
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        Take it easy. They tried to measure the Kazakhs by their own standards. If we ourselves are personally susceptible to the disease "we are a great people who gave nishtyaks to all Papuans," then do not think that Kazakhs allegedly also divide peoples into "great" and "not so".

                        Why do you think that this is not so? The Russians are a really great people, who donated not only the "popuas", but the whole world a lot of achievements and so on. "nishtyakov". You can't put it on a par with the rest, that's at least. And speaking about you, Kazakhs, in comparison with Russians, what are your achievements in science and technology? Maybe there is at least one Nobel winner - a Kazakh? What, besides "9 out of 10 bullets were cast from Kazakh lead" (in factories built by the USSR (sic!)), Can you give the world? Uranus? Again, the shadow of the USSR and the Russians. But the trail of the Russian people can now be found in anything. Starting from the American stealth system and ending with such simple and useful things as a sports kettlebell, which I am very good at. I like to pull))
                      5. Marek Rozny
                        -1
                        4 July 2013 03: 10
                        Quote: RA77
                        And why do you think this is not so?

                        For one simple reason. Today one people generates something, tomorrow another. My ancestors wrote and science appeared much earlier than the Russian ancestors. The contribution of the ancestors of the Kazakhs (Uzbeks, Karakalpaks and other Turkestans) to world science was disproportionately more significant in the 8-12 centuries than the contribution of the ancestors of the Russians at that time. Kazakhs are not only nomads, but also residents of cities from ancient centuries. There were no cities in the steppe. They were not needed there. And South Kazakhstan has been urbanized since ancient times. Our own written language appeared in the 5th century. And the scientists of Turkestan (traditionally belonging to the Muslim scientific world, which also includes scientists of Arab and Persian origin) were once the only scientific base in the world, while Europe burned each other at the stake, and China and India were concerned about the problem of survival. .
                        Russian science actually appeared only two centuries ago. I do not argue, the Russian world gave the world a large number of scientists and inventions. This is normal. The day before yesterday - we, yesterday - you, today - the Japanese, tomorrow - the Chinese. Therefore, there are no great or simple nations. Once Tajiks were engaged in higher mathematics at a time when pre-Christian fornication was still in Russia. Today, Tajiks work as unskilled laborers, while Russians receive Nobel Prizes. Which of you is greater - Tajiks or Russians? They are all the same. Tomorrow the situation may change again. 100 years ago, the Japanese were considered undisciplined and utterly lazy. 50 years ago, no one would have thought that the Japanese would give the world the lion's share of scientific discoveries. And 20 years ago we laughed at the Chinese.
                      6. demon ada
                        0
                        4 July 2013 07: 36
                        somehow it does not fit
                        Kazakhs got genocide
                        destroyed as a nation
                        killed by nuclear bombs
                        and they shook off the state.
                        or I don’t understand, or there was some kind of irregular genocide.
                      7. Marek Rozny
                        +1
                        4 July 2013 12: 17
                        Quote: demon ada
                        somehow it does not fit
                        Kazakhs got genocide
                        destroyed as a nation
                        killed by nuclear bombs
                        and they shook off the state.
                        or I don’t understand, or there was some kind of irregular genocide.

                        "ss-sheep shot Soviet residents, hung them up, burned them, and look, people still live in all sorts of Belarus. probably ss-sheep were good people. They slander them, there was nothing wrong with the fascists, if Belarus still exists and exports milk "... you have such a logic ... Bl_d, I have already lost my mind with all of you. You are like little children. You have so many heals on your ears about the "extraordinary greatness of the Russian people" that when any simple example testifying to "ugly actions" is given to you, your brains turn off and it starts "aaaaaaa, they don't like us, ungrateful! We're GREAT, why do they not like us? We even allowed them to kiss our ass, but they still did not get into GREATNESS! they hate us, bastards "
                        It's time to sober up. Nobody slanders the Soviet regime, as the Russians themselves do in Russia. But as soon as a Kazakh says something on this topic, hysteria begins, "how dare they! Get your hands off the Lenin-Stalin case! They lived in yurts and wiped their butts with dung! They must patiently endure the theme of hunger, executions, destruction of their culture and nuclear explosions! think most of the Kazakhs died, but we built a Khrushchevka in Kazakhstan for the Russian settlers. Isn't that wonderful? "
                      8. -2
                        4 July 2013 09: 10
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        My ancestors wrote and science appeared much earlier than the Russian ancestors. The contribution of the ancestors of the Kazakhs (Uzbeks, Karakalpaks and other Turkestans) to world science was in the 8-12 centuries

                        in numbers and dates please
                      9. Marek Rozny
                        +1
                        4 July 2013 12: 36
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        in numbers and dates please

                        And you just lived in KZ? This is the material of the Soviet school textbook on the history of the Kazakh SSR. Do you even know anything about Kazakhstan? How sick of these types of me. How did you live here if you don’t know about Kazakhstan.
                        Thanks again to you for leaving Kazakhstan. You couldn't stay Ukrainian, you couldn't become a Kazakh, and you didn't turn out to be Russian either. There are many Russians in Kazakhstan. Many can be labeled with a quality mark. I can’t associate you with these Russians. You're illiterate! A person who lives in Kazakhstan and does not know its history is illiterate. Why are you clever about KZ, if you are like a "traffic jam" in all matters related to Kazakhstan? You don't even know the school history of KZ - don't get out of your way then.
                      10. 0
                        4 July 2013 13: 13
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        You could not stay a Ukrainian

                        I have never been Ukrainian I RUSSIAN

                        you, as always, left the answer to a direct question, spread your thoughts across the screen

                        You clearly said that the writing of the ancestors of the Kazakhs appeared earlier than the Slavs - please provide dates
                      11. Marek Rozny
                        -1
                        4 July 2013 16: 59
                        Little Johnny-anecdote, if you skipped lessons on the history of Kazakhstan, then so be it, I will tell you the right page. Type in Google "ancient Türkic writing", it is also "Orkhon-Yenisei runic writing". Already in the middle of the first millennium, it was a writing system widespread throughout the steppe. There are thousands of stone monuments of this writing. After the 8th century, the Turks switched to paper writing (after the defeat of the Chinese in the Talas battle, the Turks took possession of the secret of making paper) - various alphabets were used, but as a result, the most common alphabet became the Arabic alphabet (under the influence of Islam). And the Sogdian letter, Uighur was also used. The fact that you are not aware of the Turkic alphabets and are not aware of the Turkic science of the Middle Ages does not mean that this was not the case. It only says that you have a lopsided education and limited outlook. Well, and just anger boils over the fact that we have written language earlier than the Slavs laughing Sorry, the Turks did not wait for the Russians to bring the Bulgarian Cyrillic alphabet to us in the 20th century)))
                      12. -1
                        4 July 2013 17: 29
                        Marek tires your rudeness
                        You clearly and distinctly said that the writing of the ancestors of the Kazakhs appeared earlier than among the Slavs, please give information about one and the other writing without showing off.
                        your ability to spread your thoughts is well known, try to get along without it
                      13. Marek Rozny
                        +1
                        5 July 2013 00: 41
                        banned in Google, Vova? You, a half-bold Kazakhstani, have you ever been to a history museum in Soviet times? have you really not seen objects with ancient Turkic writing there? and how did you study at school in the Kazakh SSR, if this topic was revealed in the SOVIET textbook on the history of Kazakhstan? I am amazed at you, Vova. You are an obvious failure. I thought your school only had unsatisfactory grades in Russian and Kazakh languages, so it’s still obvious that you didn’t have an "A" in history))))
                        And judging by the fact that you were always offended by "Kazakh nationalists", and you could not give them back, then I will assume that you have a "three" in your certificate in physical education))))
                        In short, as they usually told you at school: "Vasilenko, sit down, deuce!" laughing Stomp into the library or google - open your mind there and read about Turkic writing. Maybe the brain will increase. Well, or arrogance will decrease. And then come again to tell why you are supposedly higher than the Kazakhs)))) Once again I will dunk you in a puddle.
                      14. 0
                        5 July 2013 09: 31
                        that is, there will be no answer?
                      15. RA77
                        +2
                        4 July 2013 16: 52
                        Marek Rozny Oh yes, of course. In your opinion there are no great ones. All are great!)) Or nobody is great)) To equalize everyone, to divide everything equally, first of all they want those who have nothing, who are nothing at the moment;)
                        And of course, if you have nothing in the foreseeable future, you will go into the muddy waters of ancient times, trying to stick to their achievements. While there and now, it is sometimes difficult to understand who had whose blood and what they actually invented. And of course, you do not take into account the scale of inventions, aligning everything with one comb. Writing, albeit a fundamental thing, but which is relatively simple and which was invented by many separately from each other, stands next to what you are awarded prizes for. Well done, dance.
                      16. Marek Rozny
                        +2
                        4 July 2013 17: 30
                        Yes, the Kazakhs believe that there are no great peoples, correct religions or something else. We are not ideal, but steppe people do not suffer from these diseases. And we are really amazed when some ordinary homo sapiens (and not always the best representative of his nation) begins to go over our ears that his nation is great, and the rest were not a candle. The Kazakhs have one reaction - to give p_zds so that they no longer talk nonsense. And then there are "refugees" from Kazakhstan, complaining that in Kazakhstan nationalists oppressed him)))) The language must be monitored and not made of the navel of the earth. Russians have many national dignities, many great people, but there is plenty of shit. The Kazakhs have the same thing. Only we do not have a national idea that we are "the best, and the rest is". This is called Nazism, if you don't know. Hitler preached the same thing, if you remember.
                        We also have a kid who thinks that "Kazakhs are the greatest nation, and the rest smoke on the sidelines", but only Kazakh society is so constructed that such youthful Makimalist thoughts quickly pass away and a person begins to think in accordance with the Kazakh mentality: " there are no great or small nations. "
                        Another thing is that there are national habits, national traits - some are prone to trade, others to war, others to diplomacy, etc. Everyone has both cons and pros.
                        What "other people's achievements" are you hinting about? Türkic writing was used by the Slavs, Mongols or Chinese? Speak frankly, Russian great powers are not banned here))) Cheer up with the passage that the Turkic rune is anyone's writing, but not the Turkic one)))
                        And do not expose me as an idiot who compares ancient achievements and modern ones. I spoke only about comparing ancient achievements between our peoples. Then the Turks had science and writing. For Russians, even at the turn of the millennium, this was not even in its infancy. And I don’t need to sculpt that at least in the 10th century Russians had scientists. We had. Their names were even given in Soviet textbooks, though in a chaotic form. Al-Farabi, Al-Khwarizmi, Al-Biruni, Mahmoud Kashgari, Yusuf Balasaguni and others had an influence on the science of that time much more than all European scientists of the same period))))) And I don’t mention Tajiks whose contribution into world science is also significant and undeniable. And the personalities mentioned are the direct ancestors of the Kazakhs, Karakalpaks, Uzbeks, and not the Persians, Arabs, Russians and Chinese.
                        Yes, now, Kazakhstan is far from a leader in science. But we don’t sit idle. They have already begun to invest in science, there are cautious optimism. Orientation to science is the # 1 task in Kazakhstan. All commodity companies by law now pay an additional tax on the development of new technologies. And they began to lure scientists from all over the world to Astana so that staff would work and train us. The state also finances private innovators. Without a pump, we just do it. Nobody says that there are only fools in Russia, Russian science made a serious contribution in the 18th, and especially in the 19-20 centuries to world science. God forbid that in the 21st century Russia remains a significant scientific power. I will only be glad. I just don’t understand when in Russia they think that Russia ALWAYS was supposedly a leading scientific power, and the CIS neighbors were ALWAYS backward in science. This shows only the shortcomings of horizons and human history.
                      17. RA77
                        0
                        4 July 2013 21: 11
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        And do not expose me as an idiot who compares ancient achievements and modern ones. I spoke only about comparing ancient achievements between our peoples. Then the Turks had science and writing. For Russians, even at the turn of the millennium, this was not even in its infancy. And I don’t need to sculpt that at least in the 10th century Russians had scientists. We had. Their names were even given in Soviet textbooks, though in a chaotic form. Al-Farabi, Al-Khwarizmi, Al-Biruni, Mahmoud Kashgari, Yusuf Balasaguni and others had an influence on the science of that time much more than all European scientists of the same period))))) And I don’t mention Tajiks whose contribution into world science is also significant and undeniable. And the personalities mentioned are the direct ancestors of the Kazakhs, Karakalpaks, Uzbeks, and not the Persians, Arabs, Russians and Chinese.

                        To illustrate what you are saying, I will give such an analogy. You boast that in kindergarten, first and maybe in the second grade of school, you were, if not an excellent student, then a strong drummer. True, then they called you differently (not a Cossack / hee), but we will close our eyes to this. Also, you boast that your classmate, if he was not a double, then from two to three, for example. However, by the end of your studies at school and later at the institute, this classmate of yours was already an excellent student, and you did not show yourself anymore. By the end of the school, we moved to the deuce, but you were not accepted to the institute at all. So in this whole story you have absolutely nothing to show off, because you still understood something when it came to elementary things, but you were unable to understand more complex and complex material. AT this example you are a lump sum, absolutely incapable of understanding something more complex than 2 + 2. You also boast, essentially contrasting your achievements with those of your classmate, which is stupid. That's about what you look like.

                        Yes, and then why Tajiks here? Strictly speaking, I asked what Kazakhs can boast of. Those. since you began to be called Kazakhs. However, I agree to attach to you and all those listed by you. It is clear that you have no one else to mention. The Kazakhs themselves did not achieve anything in science and technology.
                      18. Marek Rozny
                        +1
                        5 July 2013 01: 19
                        1) you have problems with logic. which school, which institute? do you think the development process of all nations is over? who is at what level in 2013, then everything will remain forever? we are all still in school in the first grade, that are Russians, that are Kazakhs, that are Japanese, that are blacks. And keep the word "idomok" as a keepsake. And it’s better, in your terms, stay after class in the classroom and write this word on the board 100 times without errors.

                        2) "Cossack" is our usual unifying ethnonym. The Türks consist of clans (practically the same clans among all the Steppe Turks) and each time the ethnonym changed depending on the political association. There were "Cossacks", before that "Mynkol", before that "Turk", etc. Those who obeyed Edyge were called "nogai", but wanted "nogai" to leave Edyge and migrate to the sultans Zhanibek and Kerey, then automatically became a "Cossack". He did not like it under Zhanibek, went to Abulkhair and received a new ethnonym "ozbek". But at the same time, the population of all steppe states was the same in terms of genus (and now also). Tomorrow we can call ourselves "euraziyalyk" ("Eurasian") instead of "Cossack", but this does not mean that we fell from the sky and our ancestors did not exist. Ethnonym - we have a political name, and it is constantly changing. And the Kazakhs keep the family name more frugally. I am argyn. And even when I become "euraziyalyk", I will still remain argyn. And my children in a thousand years, calling themselves earthlings, will know that they are Argyns.
                        We have a different approach to self-identification. Do not measure the steppe people with your European patterns. We do not fit into your templates. And the fact that until the 15th century my ancestors did not call themselves "Cossack", but called themselves "Mongol" does not mean that my people did not exist. You do not know what your great-grandfather was called a hundred years ago, but I have known my ancestors for ten centuries. So before being clever about ancestors, you better think about who knows their ancestors better, you or Kazakh?

                        About Tajiks, I wrote that I don’t even mention themand even types like you generally get rid of resentment that even Tajiks had great scientists in the 10th century, and Russian ancestors in the 10th century - hmm ... there were completely different concerns)))

                        Our ancient scientists listed by me laid the foundations of many sciences. For example, Al-Biruni introduced the concept of "algebra", wrote a work about the sphericity of the Earth and that the Earth revolves around the Sun (500 years before the Europeans burned the poor fellow Giordano Bruno), and the works of Al-Khorezmi were so often copied in medieval Europe, that even his name turned into the scientific word "algorithm"))))) I am too lazy to write to you about the influence of Turkic scientists in more detail. All the same you will not understand and you will only throw poop. Throw what you have. You will miss anyway laughing
                      19. RA77
                        -1
                        5 July 2013 04: 31
                        I see you are already starting to twitch. Not worth it.
                        Yes, you're right, I made a mistake in the word. Which you grabbed onto. What else remains for you?) You will not say anything new, you will grind what you have already said.
                        And an example to illustrate is not required to cover the entirety of the picture. Sometimes enough discussed section.
                        And with the logic, everything is fine with me;)

                        And you shouldn’t mention Tajiks at all. Because it is not related to the topic. What I wrote to you about. Recalling that it is only about the Kazakhs. And you are mistaken about my reaction to their achievements in the distant past. I'm neither cold nor hot from this.

                        And the rest ... It wasn’t worth chewing for so long what part of the body you have to be this ancient scientist and go into the details of their discoveries. I already wrote earlier that let their merits be considered yours. After all, it is already clear that over the past centuries, the Kazakhs have achieved nothing in the field under discussion, and the opening of these Pts. ancient years have a completely different level of difficulty. Perhaps you should give them their due, but putting them on the same line with what is happening now is stupid.
                        In general, it is interesting that even access to the institutes of the USSR did not give birth to any great scientist among you Kazakhs. Fact.
                      20. Marek Rozny
                        0
                        5 July 2013 13: 23
                        I started to twitch? If I twitch, you will lie))) Just watch your language and swallow your "idiot", Czech guest worker.

                        Regarding Kazakh science in the 20th century, the Kazakhs were not engaged in electronics or military developments, but in agricultural science, as well as mining and metallurgical science. In these areas, Kazakhstan was in the leading positions in Soviet times, and now looks decent at the world level. Inventions are not only TV or karaoke, but also a new way of leaching ore or breeding improved beef cattle. Now go and kill yourself-up-wall, "science expert")))
                      21. -2
                        5 July 2013 14: 05
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        If I jerk, you'll lie

                        apparently the arguments are over laughing
                      22. RA77
                        0
                        5 July 2013 21: 37
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        Did I start to twitch?


                        You, you Don't pretend it isn't. On "you" rolled down and began to pour smiles. Plus the meaning of what you wrote. You can see that my words hooked you. But the main thing is that you have nothing to say on the topic, except to chew on what has already been said.

                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        If I twitch, you will lie))) Just follow the language and swallow your "idiot", Czech guest worker


                        Are you sure about that, fucking doc?
                        In the text I am specially for sheep like you stressedthat my word is valid only within the framework of this example! But you didn’t notice this because of the squint of eyes. And the fact that in the framework of the example I have given is really so, you can understand by re-reading that example again and finally turning on logic, dumbass.

                        And according to the subject, you simply do not want to admit that Kazakhs in science are nobody and call you in any way. For all the time that you are called Kazakhs, you have not achieved anything in science and technology. What else is there to discuss? And so everything is clear. You are proud that your very distant "ancestors" introduced the word "algebra"))) By 88 the Russians had built "Buran", which went into orbit and then automatically landed on the airfield. And this at a time when the memory of computers went to Kb. I generally keep quiet about performance. Amers have just learned how to do this, with modern computers.
                        I'm generally sure that your ancient ancestors would have disowned such you. The only thing you can really do is work as middle managers.
                      23. 0
                        5 July 2013 11: 21
                        Quote: RA77
                        Why do you think that this is not so? The Russians are a really great people, who donated not only the "popuas", but the whole world a lot of achievements and so on. "nishtyakov". You can't put it on a par with the rest, that's at least. And speaking about you, Kazakhs, in comparison with Russians, what are your achievements in science and technology? Maybe there is at least one Nobel winner - a Kazakh? What, besides "9 out of 10 bullets were cast from Kazakh lead" (in factories built by the USSR (sic!)), Can you give the world? Uranus? Again, the shadow of the USSR and the Russians. But the trail of the Russian people can now be found in anything. Starting from the American stealth system and ending with such simple and useful things as a sports kettlebell, which I am very good at. I like to pull))

                        You are a wise guy, that you are proud of the old merits of the USSR, what did you do after the collapse of the USSR? The country has been dragged and proud, you cannot launch rockets already - everyone is falling. Well, and how far have you gone from us? I don’t see something that you would live better than us. We would have raised the country without you after the collapse, although you said that we would all have khan without you and will live in yurts again. If you are so smart and we are so stupid that you don’t live like Arab sheikhs and Venus do not fly. And show me the Nobel laureate after the collapse of the USSR, only Russian and not Jewish and living in Russia.
                      24. -3
                        5 July 2013 11: 53
                        Quote: Kazbek
                        We without you after the collapse of the country raised

                        this topic has been sucked up many times

                        on the example of light industry, there is no special "uplift" in the agricultural sector, too, in Alma-Ata apples are already being sold from China, but undoubtedly Switzerland will envy banks, although their main occupation is laundering dirty money, but these are trifles
                      25. Marek Rozny
                        +2
                        5 July 2013 14: 25
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        this topic has been sucked up many times

                        And how much you don’t suck, you won’t get to the bottom, Vasya. Because you initially have no such task. Your ultimate goal of dialogue is to insult the Kazakhs, expose them as ungrateful, nationalists and parasites. And any of your pseudo-conclusions in any case will lead to the above conclusions.
                        It is useless for you to explain and prove something. I absolutely clearly imagine how the Kazakhs spoke to you in Kazakhstan. It doesn’t reach you, why not a single Kazakh on the site treats you with respect? And why do Kazakhs also unanimously despise all kinds of smokes, ya-ya and other subjects similar to you?
                        Can you poke your fingers at some Kazakh in real life or here on the site and say: "This Kazakh respects me"?
                        Rhetorical question. Especially considering that even yours real Russian acquaintances from Kazakhstan no longer want to communicate with you ... laughing
                      26. -1
                        5 July 2013 14: 31
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        Your ultimate goal of dialogue is to insult the Kazakhs, expose them as ungrateful, nationalists and parasites

                        can you give at least one example when I insulted Kazakhs (neither you personally, not quite an adequate person) but Kazakhs ?!
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        It doesn’t reach you, why not a single Kazakh on the site treats you with respect?

                        firstly, there are not many Kazakhs; secondly, they cannot represent the opinion of all Kazakhs
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        Can you poke your fingers at some Kazakh in real life or here on the site and say: "This Kazakh respects me"?

                        you know poking fingers at people is not very polite, (this is not important for you) but nevertheless there are plenty of such Kazakhs
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        Especially considering that even your real Russian acquaintances from Kazakhstan no longer want to communicate with you ...

                        well, this one is already from the field of some idle reasoning and delusional ideas of your inflamed brain, or you can give specific examples, then "a prize to the studio"
                      27. RA77
                        0
                        5 July 2013 22: 09
                        Quote: Kazbek
                        You are a wise guy, that you are proud of the old merits of the USSR, what did you do after the collapse of the USSR?

                        For a start:
                        http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/ПАК_ФА
                        http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Авиационная_вакуумная_бомба_повышенной_мощности

                        Quote: Kazbek
                        Well, how far have you gone from us?

                        In terms of science and technology - far. Mainly because you don’t have anything meaningful here.

                        Quote: Kazbek
                        Without you, after the collapse of the country, we raised the country, although you said that without you all will be khan and will live in yurts again.

                        You did not raise nichrome. You leave only on natural resources, which, by a lucky coincidence, were abundant on your land. Otherwise, they would be like kigriz. Those. lived from revolution to revolution.

                        Quote: Kazbek
                        And show me the Nobel laureate after the collapse of the USSR, only Russian and not Jewish and living in Russia.

                        And what do you clarify so, huh?))) Have you remembered about Game and Novoselov? You know, yes, what the Nobel laureates were in Russia after the collapse of the USSR))) And what would you know, a Kalmyk may be Russian! ;)
                        Zhores Alferov (2000)
                      28. +2
                        7 July 2013 23: 15
                        Quote: RA77
                        Zhores Alferov (2000)

                        Zhores Alferov received a Nobel Prize for scientific discoveries made in the USSR ... From an interview with Zhores Ivanovich: - ".. in my case, this is the mid-70s .." received it for "past" merits, Soviet times ..
                        In terms of science and technology - far.
                        Only now the "Protons" keep falling and falling .. feel
                        You travel only on natural resources
                        Hmm .. Whose cow mumbled .. Why are you leaving yourself?
                        Otherwise, they would be like kigrizes
                        They would be like Ukrainians-Ukrainians ..
                        And what would you know, a Kalmyk may be Russian! ;)
                        Yeah, well, yes, just like in that joke: "Yes, as in Moscow - so Chukchi (Chukmek, black-th, Chukmek ..), but like a blizzard - so people."
                      29. -1
                        4 July 2013 13: 08
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        If we ourselves are personally susceptible to illness "we are a great people who gave nishtyaks to all Papuans"

                        But I'm not really Russian. Of the representatives of the people who made themselves. And who didn’t drag by the ass from the primitive communal system, the Russians, like you. Tell them thank you that you are not at the same level of development as the Mongols. Who receive an apartment in a nine-story building, collect a yurt in the courtyard.
                        And you are a clear Russophobe, from the outside it is perfectly visible. Dissatisfied with the fact that they brought you into people. The Moor did the deed; the Moor is worth deflecting. In order to increase self-esteem
                      30. Marek Rozny
                        +2
                        5 July 2013 13: 44
                        Quote: Spade
                        But I'm not really Russian. Of the representatives of the people who made themselves. And who didn’t drag by the ass from the primitive communal system, the Russians, like you. Tell them thank you that you are not at the same level of development as the Mongols. Who receive an apartment in a nine-story building, collect a yurt in the courtyard.

                        Yes, it makes no difference to me who you had in your ancestors. You, apparently, like Vasilenko, are embarrassed by your national roots, and therefore behave like a neophyte, proving to others that he is allegedly more Russian than the Russians themselves.
                        A hint about the primitive communal system - about your ethnic group? )))) EPT, another civilizer was found with a bare dupe. Pre-revolutionary Russian scholars of Turkestan Potanin and Kharuzin wrote that the steppes stood at a higher cultural level than the Russian settlers. Not to mention that the Kazakhs were trite richer than the Cossacks and immigrants.
                        And here is a quote from 19th century scientific papers:

                        "(Irtysh) Cossacks have succumbed to the influence of the Kirghiz people around them so much that almost all the Cossack population speaks Kyrgyz and often prefers this language to their native language; for many, it is a lullaby language, since nurses often choose Kyrgyz clothes and clothes. Like the Kirghiz, the Irtysh Cossack loves to wear wide plisovy trousers, a robe made of Bukhara brocade or saranja and a fox hat (fight); he loves Kyrgyz national dishes, including horse meat, and a lot of things to understand ... the Cossack borrowed from the Kirghiz: he, like this last one, considers it a shame to sit on a horse without a whip, put on canvas trousers, etc.
                        In order to wage a successful struggle, the Russian must have studied with the Kyrgyz, and since the cultural level of the settled soldiers was not high, he should be attracted by the more luxurious clothes of the Kyrgyz people from Bukhara, both weapons and horse-drawn decorations; Kyrgyz-stepnyak, being for the new settler the ideal of a rider, was supposed to subjugate the Russian element and influence his customs, manners, worldview and language. ... The Okirgizenie of Russians is explained mainly by the low cultural level of the last ...
                        (Alexey Nikolaevich Kharuzin, "On the question of the assimilation ability of the Russian people", 1894).
                      31. -2
                        5 July 2013 14: 13
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        You, apparently, like Vasilenko, are embarrassed by their national roots,

                        I'm sorry, Marek, but you’re really my father’s lynch my ancestors from the Cossacks on the maternal from the Russian and Polish nobility, I consider myself Russian, you invented something for yourself there and performed, but at the same time you don’t even have the courage to call yourself
                      32. -2
                        5 July 2013 23: 50
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        Yes, it makes no difference to me who you had in your ancestors. You, apparently, like Vasilenko, are embarrassed by your national roots, and therefore behave like a neophyte, proving to others that he is allegedly more Russian than the Russians themselves.

                        It is possible that more Russian than many who consider themselves Russian. I’m a Belarusian.

                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        A hint about the primitive communal system - about your ethnic group? ))))

                        No, obviously not about mine.

                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        Pre-revolutionary Russian scholars of Turkestan Potanin and Kharuzin wrote that the steppes stood at a higher cultural level than the Russian immigrants.

                        You have problems with the Russian language. In your quote there is nothing about a higher cultural level of the steppes than the immigrants.
                2. 0
                  3 July 2013 23: 55
                  the truth must be borne in mind that when tested at the Totsky training ground, the military was driven out
                  1. Marek Rozny
                    0
                    4 July 2013 00: 59
                    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                    the truth must be borne in mind that when tested at the Totsky training ground, the military was driven out

                    "... as many as 45 thousand soldiers were involved in the operation, the organization was much stricter: radiation control before the troops passed through the contaminated zone (even scouts did not walk in the danger zone, the area was marked with flags fired from a dosimetric tank), OZK and subsequent decontamination" ...
                    The soldiers were not running in shorts there. And not at the epicenter.
                    1. 0
                      4 July 2013 01: 04
                      well, so no one was forcing anyone to run around the training ground, another question is that many, as always, put everything at stake, who is radiation, what kind of radiation do we not see means no, if not, everything normally grazes the sheep.
                      or someone forcibly drove someone into the zones of infection and exclusion ?!

                      p / s / based on your phrase about ozk and decontamination, I can say one thing about you as Suleimenov about radiation, you don’t even have the slightest idea, but about the epicenter, you can say that about the atomic explosion and its consequences
                      1. Marek Rozny
                        -1
                        4 July 2013 01: 27
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        well, so no one was forcing anyone to run around the training ground, another question is that many, as always, put everything at stake, who is radiation, what kind of radiation do we not see means no, if not, everything normally grazes the sheep.
                        or someone forcibly drove someone into the zones of infection and exclusion ?!

                        Vladimir, why did you turn the fool on again? Ever been explained to the locals about the danger? And even more so, did they tell the public when nuclear clouds were walking in Karaganda, Pavlodar and other regions? It would have to relocate millions of people and put an end to hundreds of strategic enterprises in Central, Northern and Eastern Kazakhstan. The authorities were silent. Panic was stopped. Even about the accident at Chernobyl was silent until Western Europe raised a fuss. And here you are pretending that they allegedly explained to the Kazakh auls what they are facing in living in the contaminated territories. And there was no "exclusion zone" in practice. This is a gigantic territory, and it is not surrounded by any fence or signs. Only where the military facilities themselves are.

                        I will not say anything about the passage addressed to me and Suleimenova. Kazakhs will forever be grateful to Suleimenov, and the contemptuous attitude of the Kazakhs (even here on the forum) towards your person - you yourself know. You don’t stand Olzhas’s nail either. So no matter how hard you try, you won’t be able to stain him with shit. Just sweat and, God forbid, you will get cold. And your health is not as good as you told me.
                      2. -1
                        4 July 2013 11: 21
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        Vladimir, why did you turn on the fool again? Ever been explained to the locals about the danger? And even more so, did they tell the public when nuclear clouds walked in Karaganda, Pavlodar and other areas?

                        you turn on the fool, provided that you didn’t live in the Kazakh SSR, that you didn’t know how and to whom, but you have already said so many nonsense on this thread that you are amazed at starting with the OZK as a means of protection against radiation and ending with the monolithic character of the Kazakh nation throughout history
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        And your health is not so good, as you said

                        Is it the manner of the political leaders to invent and lie ?!
                      3. Marek Rozny
                        +2
                        4 July 2013 12: 52
                        1) Vasilenko, do you have a memory problem? I personally have repeatedly told you about when and how many times I was and lived in Kazakhstan. The fact that I was born in Orenburg (this is right on the border with the KZ) does not mean that I was not in the KZ. Both of my parents are natives of Kazakhstan - the Tselinograd and Dzhambul regions. My grandmothers lived there. My relatives are scattered throughout the KZ, whom we visited every year several times at all Kazakh events.
                        Yes, I know the history and culture of Kazakhstan unimaginably better than you. This is my story, my culture. And for you, Kazakhstan was a break-in place. You are a guest worker. Sred_at you wanted for everything related to KZ. From you is a source of information on KZ, as from a cow pomegranate tortilla.
                        Although I'm afraid you will forget this information again in half an hour. And again, for the hundredth time, you will ask one and the same thing again.

                        You yourself complained about health, I remember the phrase "health no longer allows" from your lips. You can dig up your messages if you forgot. Your problems.

                        Vova, I wrote that the soldiers were in the UPC. This is better than without OZK. The soldiers did not have any other work clothes at that time. Soldiers did not run in the most infected areas of the training ground, but only where the radiation level was relatively low. Hare fooling around.
                      4. -1
                        4 July 2013 13: 16
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        Vasilenko, do you have a memory problem? I personally have repeatedly told you about when and how many times I was and lived in Kazakhstan. The fact that I was born in Orenburg (this is right on the border with the KZ) does not mean that I was not in the KZ.

                        everything is in order with my memory, you wrote repeatedly that you lived with your father in the GDR, he served in the same place and studied at school
                      5. Marek Rozny
                        +1
                        4 July 2013 16: 49
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        everything is in order with my memory, you wrote repeatedly that you lived with your father in the GDR, he served in the same place and studied at school

                        Damn, Vova, you never cease to amaze me every day. Neither I nor my father have ever been to the GDR. And I never wrote such statements. Search through the archive of my messages.
                        You ... have a bite or something.
                      6. 0
                        4 July 2013 17: 22
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        Do you ... have a bite or something

                        that you boor it doesn’t surprise me anymore, I could have made a mistake and I won’t rest and prove something, although it was postponed in my opinion along with the fact that your father was a political officer.
                        so still where and when did they finish school ?!
                      7. Marek Rozny
                        +4
                        4 July 2013 22: 35
                        Vasilenko, you started to be rude to me in December. So what a hello, such an answer. And with a fig, will I play politeness with a man who is an outspoken chauvinist and an ordinary liar?
                        As for the school - it will be necessary, I will tell you myself. But not at your request. Don’t give you any answer - you will fashion a thread. And if you blurt out something offensive about my father, I’ll get it out of the ground. And then I feel that your language is not the first time itching, not only addressed to me, but also to say it. I warned you, Vova. Watch your language. Put a barrel on me - I don’t care. If you touch your father, the conversation will cease to be virtual.
                        Well, so what did you want to heal me about the GDR? Start your fantasy series, what is the episode from "Refugee TV" today? )))
                      8. 0
                        5 July 2013 12: 09
                        And with a fig, will I play politeness with a person who is an outspoken chauvinist and an ordinary liar?
                        zadolbal, or shut up, or bring at least one of my chauvinistic statement
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        And you’ll blurt out something offensive about my father - I’ll get it out of the ground

                        firstly, you don’t need to threaten, secondly, I didn’t say a word about your father, apparently, as always, there are no arguments, by the way I don’t need to look underground, I write on my own behalf and I don’t hide my address

                        p / s / I still didn’t understand that you got hooked on your father? !!!
                        Yes, and about the language I advise you to do the same
                      9. Marek Rozny
                        -1
                        5 July 2013 14: 06
                        wahahaha)))))))))))

                        - You are a boor, a chauvinist and a liar!
                        “I'm not a chauvinist!”


                        laughing
                      10. -2
                        5 July 2013 14: 18
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        You are a boor, a chauvinist and a liar! - I'm not a chauvinist!

                        had a good laugh? calmed down?
                        can you think adequately now?
                        Well, either give me at least one example of my chauvinism, at least one, or shut up.

                        it seems that the Kazakh Natsik has the word shovik a kind of fetish, none of you know the meaning of this word, but every Russian who has the audacity to criticize the political or economic situation in the Republic of Kazakhstan immediately becomes a shovik
                      11. 0
                        4 July 2013 13: 19
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        Vova, I wrote that the soldiers were in the UPC. This is better than without OZK.

                        you wrote that they were not in shorts but in the OZK from the point of view of the damaging factor of radiation, this is monstrous, the only difference is that they could wash away the settled dust, the whole dose that they picked up at the time of the exercises with them and remained.

                        you do not know what radiation is, but at the same time you undertake to talk about its consequences
            2. +2
              3 July 2013 22: 51
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              it's just your ignorance of the subject,

              Thanks for the specific answer. Really didn’t know. it was just that the test site was always mentioned (even if it was very large), but I thought - since the test site, especially for such explosions, means an uninhabited place.
        2. +5
          3 July 2013 21: 16
          from 1926 to 1939 - Written claims against the great Georgian (the father of all nations) and a handful of Jews in power.

          Are you another single sadomasochist who decided to prove on the Russian patriotic site that all Russians are "bad people"?
          1. theodorh
            -2
            3 July 2013 21: 44
            Quote: gecko
            from 1926 to 1939 - Written claims against the great Georgian (the father of all nations) and a handful of Jews in power.


            When it comes to positive aspects in the USSR, whether it be a victory in WWII, space exploration, it is the merit of the Russians.

            When it comes to negativity? The Georgians, the Jews and the commies are to blame?

            Where did you write that the Russians are bad? good or bad, good or evil can be people, not entire nations. Prominent figures of the Russian people have made a huge contribution to the development of world civilization. Your attempts to accuse me of Russophobia are groundless.
          2. Marek Rozny
            -1
            3 July 2013 22: 49
            Quote: gecko
            from 1926 to 1939 - Written claims against the great Georgian (the father of all nations) and a handful of Jews in power.

            ahhhh, well, as usual ... all that was good in KZ was Russian. everything bad is from the Bolsheviks, Jews and Georgians. very comfortable position. win-win.
        3. +6
          3 July 2013 21: 49
          Quote: teodorh
          We were allowed to create our autonomy by the very last, although in terms of numbers, Kazakhs were the fourth largest empire after the Slavs

          eeeee mnnnn do not even know what to say
          Quote: teodorh
          Why not somewhere near Ryazan or Pskov? And yes, we are in your opinion chocks and Papuans, people from the third grade.

          you know, I can’t stand it when a thread begins that the USE victim yells about the fact that the RSFSR fed Central Asia, but you are the same victim of a new education, you don’t understand what you are writing about, and it seems even what you are writing, stupidity drives stupidity and stupidity
          1. theodorh
            -1
            3 July 2013 21: 56
            I don’t get used to it when my views are not identical to the views of the cheers-patriots of whom 90-95 percent here, I automatically become dull or stupid =)
            1. +1
              3 July 2013 21: 57
              Quote: teodorh
              I don’t get used to it when my views are not identical to the views of the cheers-patriots of whom 90-95 percent here, I automatically become dull or stupid =)

              or maybe you just don’t need to write stupid things ?!
              1. theodorh
                0
                3 July 2013 22: 07
                my question is why during the ussr a nuclear testing ground was created on our territory, and not some other territory? it was a question and you answer me about stupidity.
                1. Misantrop
                  +3
                  3 July 2013 22: 11
                  Quote: teodorh
                  why during the ussr a nuclear testing ground was created on our territory, and not some other territory?

                  Have you ever heard of the New Earth?
                  1. Marek Rozny
                    -3
                    3 July 2013 22: 39
                    Quote: Misantrop
                    Have you ever heard of the New Earth?

                    And how many civilians were affected by the nuclear explosions in Novaya Zemlya? Answer: 0 people.
                    For example: in Kazakhstan, more than 1 million people are officially recognized as victims of nuclear explosions!
                    1. Misantrop
                      +9
                      3 July 2013 22: 46
                      Quote: Marek Rozny
                      in Kazakhstan more than 1 million people are officially recognized as victims of nuclear explosions!

                      Still, such an occasion for benefits. It's like during the reign of Yushchenko, he rushed with gigantic figures about the Holodomor. If you believe its numbers, then all Ukrainians died, and some - not even once laughing
                      1. Marek Rozny
                        +1
                        3 July 2013 22: 59
                        Misanthrope, this is not funny. We still have physical birthdays. And not only in areas adjacent to the strategic nuclear zone, but also in the west of the KZ.

                        "Journalists of the Ural Weekly" visited the Bokeyordinsky district in the families of children affected by the impact of the Kapustin Yar test site.

                        The peak of pathology among children occurred in the 90s, but, having traveled several villages of the district, we made sure that sick children continue to be born here ...
                        Alizhan, 10 months, Central Hospital, Saykhyn District Center. The diagnosis is Down syndrome. A child has a congenital pathology - the fingers are joined together.
                        Ainara, 5 years old, the village of Khan Orda. Wearing six month old baby clothes. From birth, the girl has disrupted the growth process of the body, because of which the girls practically do not grow the humerus and femur. According to parents in mental development is not inferior to peers.
                        Islay, 12 years old, the village of Khan Orda. Suffering from autism. Every day he spends in the company of his father and dolls. Islay hardly speaks, and when she saw the camera aimed at her, she burst into tears.
                        Gulmira, 23 years old, the village of Khan Orda. Outwardly, the girl looks like a teenager, and in terms of mental development she remained at the level of a nursing infant.
                        At home, Gulmira is tied to a bed, and recently even wrapped with wire, because she learned to untie the rope.
                        - Tears the wallpaper, sometimes even windows can break. “Nobody knows us, although we live in the house of eight people,” her mother says, “My voice only sometimes recognizes, and then when I feed her.” When she wants to eat, she begins to bang her head against the wall.
                        Asylbek, 24 years old, the village of Khan Orda. The diagnosis is a growth pathology, in other words - a dwarf.
                        Serik, 22 years old, Muratsay village. Has no eyes from birth, a pronounced mental and physical developmental delay.
                        He does not give an account of his actions and therefore most of the time he is tied to the bed. The only thing he reacts positively to is music, which he is ready to listen to all the time.
                        Danagul, 7 years old, Muratsay village. Doctors diagnosed her mental retardation and cleft lip.
                        Asylkhan, 22 years old, Agen branch. He is far behind peers in mental development, but overtakes them in physical ...
                        The Kapustin Yar training ground was created in 1947. Then more than 60 thousand people were forcibly evicted from these places. Today, the population in the Bokeyordinsky district barely exceeds 16 thousand people.
                        According to open data, since the 1950s, at least 11 ground-based nuclear explosions have been carried out at the Kapustin Yar test site, the total power of which is approximately 65 atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima. "
                        http://thenews.kz/2013/05/22/1385718.html
                        In general, the Kazakhs, to their nausea, have seen enough of the photographs of people who were born disabled after nuclear tests.
                      2. Misantrop
                        +6
                        3 July 2013 23: 14
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        We still have physical birthdays. And not only in areas adjacent to the strategic nuclear zone, but also in the west of the KZ.

                        And all this ONLY from the impact of nuclear weapons, nothing else? There have been no nuclear explosions in Crimea yet. But the number of deviations is very large every year and is increasing. But Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not resettled. Those who survived. And no one carried out super-cool decontamination measures either, they simply did not know then what and how to do, and why it was necessary. And what, there are only mutants crawling? And in Ukraine and Belarus, where "Chernobyl gifts" poured out, the percentage level of deviations is not too different from other regions. Did you read about the Mayak plant and its adjoining territory? Already there are absolutely outrageous values ​​of the irradiating factors, "Kapustin Yar" is resting. But for some reason, the population there is in no hurry to give the status of "radiation-injured" ...
                      3. Marek Rozny
                        -1
                        4 July 2013 01: 14
                        Misanthrope, I do not want to seem like a nationalist, but the Kazakhs are proud that they are a very healthy and strong nation. In our country, Islam still influences some habits, and the tradition of knowing the ancestors up to the 7th generation, so as to prevent incest, is still valid. and we are never born hilyaki. And nutritional features play a role. Horse meat - the most healthy and medicinal meat - is still an essential part of the diet of modern Kazakhs. And koumiss is used regularly. Plus shubat and other sour-milk drinks. This is not a panacea, but the nation, as a result, is generally healthy and resilient.
                        U.rody are born solely for environmental reasons, primarily in areas infected with nuclear explosions. A smaller part is the consequences of the work of harmful enterprises (especially in Altai).

                        The Chernobyl disaster was not "planned", unlike the military nuclear tests in Kazakhstan. And I have already made a comparison with Hiroshima. In one Semipalatinsk 2500 Hiroshim happened. How can one compare the first American bombs with what was blown up in Kazakhstan until the end of the 80s ???
                      4. Misantrop
                        +4
                        4 July 2013 10: 29
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        Kazakhs are proud that they are a very healthy and strong nation.

                        ... and therefore they consider themselves entitled to indicate to the nuclear scientist, who worked all his life at a nuclear plant until retirement, how exactly radiation affects living organisms? belay Radiation, no doubt, has contributed, BUT its main effect is that radiation reduces the margin of resistance to mutations. But for the mutations themselves, say thanks to your cotton growers and the thousands of tons of fertilizer that they poured into the fields. Therefore, the peak occurred precisely in those years that you are writing about, by the time of explosions, the power of warheads and the half-life of isotopes, this peak has nothing to do with it. request Moreover, a military explosion differs from a research one VERY much. And its power is just one of a whole list of parameters. Certainly not the most important for determining the long-term consequences of it
                      5. Marek Rozny
                        0
                        4 July 2013 13: 03
                        Moreover, there are Uzbek cotton growers or someone else, when mutants are born in the territories affected by radiation. In other regions of the KZ - there are no such massive cases. Thousands of people with birth defects live in Semsk, and it turns out the Uzbeks are to blame ... Well, kanesha. Radiation is garbage, here cotton growers pesticides are terrible weapons ... They drove off in Paktaaral, travailed in East Kazakhstan and in Uralsk.
                        You have Chernobyl. What is the city abandoned? Do not be afraid, live there. Cotton growers are far from you. You will not become a mutant, health will not be thinned. Welkam that Chernobyl.
                      6. +1
                        4 July 2013 13: 29
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        And here the Uzbek cotton growers

                        despite the fact that you don’t know the subject of the dispute, the chemicals used to grow cotton are no less dangerous
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        other regions of the KZ - there are no such massive cases

                        can you give statistics ?!
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        Radiation is garbage, here cotton growers pesticides are terrible weapons ...

                        you forgive by education who?
                        from the conversation it’s already clear that you don’t know anything about radiation or pesticides
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        Welkam Tu Chernobyl

                        Marik, well, do not disgrace, well, bullshit
                      7. Misantrop
                        +2
                        4 July 2013 15: 24
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        And here the Uzbek cotton growers

                        Despite the fact that this chemistry is a powerful mutagen.
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        In other regions of the KZ - there are no such massive cases.

                        I will not argue. This is what I wrote above:
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        radiation reduces the margin of resistance to mutations.

                        Or is it too difficult to tie together two different sentences? Still try, I specifically removed everything superfluous from the post so as not to distract wink
                      8. Marek Rozny
                        +2
                        4 July 2013 18: 06
                        Misanthrope, I still do not understand Where is the connection between pesticides used in Uzbekistan and genetic abnormalities among residents of East and West Kazakhstan? There is a gigantic distance between them. Moreover, in the territory of the mentioned Kazakh regions, agriculture mainly consists of cattle breeding, and chemical soil treatment is not applied there.
                        Well, I will never hear a sensible answer from Vasilenko, he is a person "offended" by the Kazakhs. I sincerely respect you and do not want to go into conflict with you at all, even if I do not agree on any issues. Just explain - the link between Uzbek chemicals and East Kazakhstan?
                      9. Misantrop
                        0
                        4 July 2013 22: 32
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        in the territory of the mentioned Kazakh regions, agriculture mainly consists of cattle breeding, and chemical soil treatment is not applied there.
                        There are two reasons, the main of which is the wind transfer of all this rubbish along with dust. There are no (large) forests, there are no serious mountain ranges that change the alignment of winds. So he drags over gigantic distances. The main massif is steppe. What can we say, if part of the gimmicks, judging by the spectral analysis, scattered in Moldova, as a result, ended up in the Crimea. It seems that there are both the sea and the mountains, but nevertheless ... And the second is the use of food products (most of them) of more or less local production (i.e. with the same chemicals carried by the wind). But if in other regions, due to good immunity, this did not give SUCH visible results, then in areas close to the test site, it was clearly noticeable. In them, the immunity of the population was weakened by the sources of AI, and that's what happened ... And in the 90s they just stopped pouring in chemistry, it was not up to it because of "perestroika". So it gradually began to decline, it was poured to hell. The explosions at the test site had long since ceased, ground and air - in general, hell knows when. Almost all explosions after the very first were of the underground type, no surface emission at all... So these explosions didn’t affect the ecology at all. Due to my duty, I had to deal with these issues rather closely. And he lived for 10 years on the Kola Peninsula. And that even without any naval bases "glows" like a Christmas tree. Bedrocks, basalts and granites give natural background in 15 micro-roentgen ... request

                        Why did the Japanese, even those living in nuclear-bombed cities, not have a large number of mutations. They have a significant part of the diet of seafood. And in those until recently, there were not many harmful chemicals and isotopes. This is now, when after the accident at Fukushima, almost half of the fish caught off the coast of Japan gives isotopic exposure, a surge in mutations can soon be expected ...
                      10. Marek Rozny
                        +2
                        5 July 2013 00: 18
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        wind transfer of all this rubbish along with dust. There are no (large) forests, serious mountain ranges changing the alignment of winds - either. That drags to gigantic distances. The main array is the steppe.

                        look at the physical map of Kazakhstan. Between the Uzbek Pakhtaaral and Semipalatinsk, in fact, there is a natural barrier.

                        Quote: Misantrop
                        And the second is the use of food products (the bulk of them) of more or less local production (i.e. with the same chemicals carried by the wind).

                        Kazakhstan food very high quality. And the meat (horsemeat and lamb) of East Kazakhstan is generally the best in all of Kazakhstan. Fruits and vegetables (traditionally imported from southern Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, and now China) northerners / easterners do not consume very much. Yes, and the SES is not asleep. Pesticidal products are caught regularly. But all the same, vegetables / fruits in this region are not eaten in moderation. They are Kazakhs, they would have more meat and tea. According to statistics of the still hungry 90s, a Kazakhstani eats meat a month, how much Japanese eats in a year. And this despite the fact that the lion's share of the eaten meat eludes official statistics. And flour products in Kazakhstan are of the highest quality. So even here I have doubts about your theory about the connection of pesticides with diseases of residents of poisoned regions.
                        What is there to guess - the main reason is the influence of radiation. At any time, local residents (even healthy parents) may have a child with serious defects there. Surely there is an influence of "dirty" factories located nearby (Ust-Kamenogorsk). Here I can agree. And yet, nuclear test sites are the root cause of increased congenital disability. And everything else is aggravating factors.
                      11. Marek Rozny
                        0
                        5 July 2013 00: 20
                        In addition, it is not necessary to say that supposedly people from the bulldozer signed up as "victims". And note that it is the government of Kazakhstan that pays money to the victims of the landfill, not Russia, whose representatives are here shouting "we built you Disneylands." For some reason, Kazakhstan still has to pay for such "Disneylands" with money. And if Kazakhstan confused the "Russian people" with "Soviet power", then we would demand that Russia reimburse these costs. However, since Kazakhs do not confuse these concepts, they do not impose any requirements on Moscow. The culprit is the now defunct "Soviet power / leadership of the USSR". So we cannot make claims to anyone. And there is no one to declare gratitude for the achievements of the former system. Unfortunately, many Russians do not understand this. To be more precise, they only understand the wording that is convenient for them: "Everything good in the USSR comes from ethnic Russians, everything bad in the USSR comes from Jews, Stalin and the Communist Party." And then these Russians have to enroll the Kazakhs as nationalists without exception, since the steppe inhabitants categorically refuse to agree with such Jesuit logic.
                        We are not Poles, Ukrainians or Lithuanians to ask our neighbors for gratitude, repentance, or something else. Turanians are more pragmatic. Please note that not only Kazakhs do not demand "compensation and apologies for the past" from Moscow, but also Uzbeks, Kyrgyz, and Turkmens. And who usually asks this from Moscow? Exclusively European ethnic groups of the CIS and Eastern Europe. Where to go, this is the European mentality - to consider yourself offended, and neighbors - ungrateful. Even Germany has already imagined that Russia should apologize for its past. It would never occur to Turkey, Hungary or Mongolia to ask a neighboring country for repentance or, on the contrary, to apologize for something that happened in the past. It was and was. After the fight, they do not wave their fists and make no claims. And the Germanic and Slavic peoples will exhaust each other's souls, feeling themselves "humiliated and insulted." And then they arrange themselves "big blood" when they bring themselves to hysterics. I'm wrong? In my opinion, this is an obvious difference in the thinking of our cultures. Although Kazakhs expect Russians to see a more sober attitude to the past than is customary in the West.
                        Once again I say, do not ask for gratitude from us, and then you will not hear reciprocal claims. And on his own initiative, the steppe dweller will not make any claims. The "refugees" of Kazakhstan did not understand this. That is why they saw nationalists everywhere. Normal Russians who do not demand "gratitude" from Kazakhs do not meet "Kazakh nationalists". What's incomprehensible?
                      12. 0
                        4 July 2013 14: 35
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        but the Kazakhs are proud that they are a very healthy and strong nation. In our country, Islam still influences some habits, and the tradition of knowing ancestors up to the 7th tribe in order to prevent

                        you already decide whether they’re healthy or are born, Islam was dragged to something, Kazakhs had tuberculosis almost everywhere, I’m talking about good health of the nation
                      13. Marek Rozny
                        0
                        4 July 2013 17: 52
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        you already decide whether they’re healthy or are born, Islam was dragged to something, Kazakhs had tuberculosis almost everywhere, I’m talking about good health of the nation

                        Vova, stop pouring guano. Kazakhs are a healthy nation for a number of reasons. This is nutrition, and Islam (which significantly affects the spread of addictions), and the prevention of incestuous marriages, etc. When a person neglects Kazakh cuisine (horse meat, koumiss, shubat), drinks vodka in liters - then yes, the question of the health of this Kazakh is understandable . But in general, Kazakhs drink alcohol moderately (and many do not drink strictly), horse meat on the table by the Kazakh - constantly. And Kazakhs go in for sports much more often than Russians in Russia.
                        Well, the spread of tuberculosis is a "thank you" to the Soviet regime. Before the revolution, the Kazakhs had no idea about tuberculosis, because The steppe inhabitants have in their diet kumis - the only natural cure for this disease. Tuberculosis in the Kazakh steppe arose after the Soviet government took away all the livestock from the Kazakhs. So you better close this topic yourself, otherwise you will get another butthrt. Tuberculosis is a "gift" of the Soviet regime in the 20s and 30s.
                        And do not think that before the Russians, the Kazakhs did not have medicine. In this we (and in veterinary medicine) succeeded more than the Russians in our time. All their diseases and cattle diseases were cured by themselves. Kazakhs smirked at the Russian veterinarians who received a European education when they came to the Steppe.
                        Well, the widespread introduction of hospitals is a merit of the Soviet regime. I will just remind you that the bulk of the Russian people received education and free medicine at the same time as the Kazakhs. The fact that the princes and merchants of Russia used the best medical means of that time (moreover, Western European ones) did not mean that the Russian people themselves used the achievements of medical science. Thank you (in this matter) to the Soviet government. And "thanks" to the Soviet authorities for tuberculosis. The Bolsheviks would not have taken away cattle from the Kazakhs (horses in the first place), we would not have had this sad page in history.
                      14. -1
                        4 July 2013 18: 03
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        Before the revolution, Kazakhs had no idea about tuberculosis

                        Well, why are you writing something you don’t know about?
                        Valikhanov died of tuberculosis, Kazakhs did not know such a disease, she herself came to the steppe and settled
                      15. Marek Rozny
                        +1
                        4 July 2013 18: 22
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Valikhanov died of tuberculosis, Kazakhs did not know such a disease, she herself came to the steppe and settled

                        don't get smart. Valikhanov fell ill with tuberculosis away from his native places when he was on a mission in China. In St. Petersburg, the disease worsened, and he returned to Kazakhstan as a deeply sick man before his death.
                      16. +5
                        3 July 2013 23: 19
                        You write these large texts ... it’s certainly bitter to read ... although it’s someone else’s pain ... but believe me, it’s hard to read ... But it’s even harder to understand what you are striving for ... The specific perpetrators are people who are already gone ... you are not happy ... you need other explanations ... Namely, conviction of the Russian people, hatred for which is easily read between your lines ... Exactly ... you just want to hang everything on the innocent ... by the way, also nowadays not living people ... on their sons and grandchildren. And so that the Slavs began to repent of what it was ... After all, you are trying to achieve this. It will not happen! We have nothing to repent of. Here you are, to the bone, do not tolerate Russian ... there are many of the former "conquered", but the USSR, although it was indeed a Russian-forming state, was ruled in different years by people far from Russians ... Well, this is not an answer for you. You were very oppressed by the authorities, but you do not support the belief that everything comes from the leadership. This is also a very good position. Is not it? It's so easy to blame everything on the Russians ...
                      17. Marek Rozny
                        -1
                        4 July 2013 00: 19
                        But how did I get tired of explaining. Kazakhs have no complaints against the Russian people! We have no special gratitude to the Russians, nor complaints! Some Russians have a problem with self-identification! I’ve written dozens of times (and besides me, other Kazakhs with one voice) - Russian and Soviet power are not the same thing! either you then accept claims for the excesses and mistakes of the Soviet regime, or do not expose yourself as donors, sponsors, educators, advocates. You really don’t understand what exactly annoys Kazakhs and others? It is annoying when some Russians try to make themselves benefactors and at the same time try to abstract from all the black pages of history.
                        Quote: papss
                        We repent of nothing.

                        So there’s nothing to thank you for! That's the problem. The decisions were made by the Soviet government - she and the blasphemy, and she was honored by us. What about the Russians? When a Kazakh scolds the Soviet regime, you perceive that he allegedly curses ethnic Russians. And the Kazakh is not talking about the Russian ethnic group, but about the Soviet government! Did the Russian people decide to build mining plants or landfills in Kazakhstan? Of course not. Soviet authority. Did the Russian people decide to treat the Kazakhs or to Russify them? Of course not. These are the decisions of the Soviet government. Enough Kazakhs record in Russophobia. This is idiocy. Kazakhs, including me, do not have any negative feelings for Russian or other peoples of the USSR. The Russian people are an instrument of Soviet power, the same as Kazakhs, Ukrainians, Georgians, Chechens, Moldavians.
                        Another thing is that the Soviet government essentially consisted of ethnic Slavs (I am not talking about the years of the revolution), and many decisions were dictated by ethnic considerations. The Soviet government pursued an open policy of Russification of all the peoples of the USSR. The ultimate goal of Soviet power in national politics is the creation of a "Soviet man" based on the Russian language and Russian culture. This seems normal to you, but not to me. Vasilenko left KZ, considering it beneath his own dignity to know the Kazakh language and Kazakh culture. For him, this is a manifestation of nationalism. Why is the forcible Russification of Kazakhs not a manifestation of nationalism? What kind of double standards? Kazakhs respect Russian culture and know it well. But we are not going to turn into "Mongoloid Russians" and renounce our own language and culture, to which the Soviet regime was leading us. We have something to be proud of in our own culture and we do not consider it worse than Russian, German or Arab. When Kazakhs talk about this, you take it with hostility, labeling Kazakhs as some kind of Russophobia. The overwhelming majority of Kazakhs are far from the ideas of nationalism and intolerance! This is absolutely contrary to the Kazakh mentality.
                      18. +3
                        4 July 2013 00: 47
                        Yes, how did I get sick of explaining
                        you don’t get nervous, you write here to be listened to and read ...
                        Enough Kazakhs record in Russophobia
                        , I asked you not to speak on behalf of all Kazakhs, and while talking with you, I am in every way distancing myself from the general thoughts of all Kazakhs, unlike you I personally tell you that you are a Russophobe... and you move your ideas from all Kazakhs
                        Soviet power essentially consisted of ethnic Slavs (I'm not talking about the years of the revolution), and many decisions were dictated by ethnic considerations.
                        what are you saying ...? What else do you agree on? Soviet power cannot consist of an ethnos (read what an ethnos is) ... it's all too early to say the feudal form of government - it consisted of ethnic Germans ... And the main persecution of Kazakhstan ... between 1924-1953. also implemented by the Slavic ethnic group?
                        The vast majority of Kazakhs are far from the ideas of nationalism and intolerance! This is absolutely contrary to the Kazakh mentality.
                        you really are not asking for it ...
                      19. Marek Rozny
                        -2
                        4 July 2013 04: 11
                        I explain about the Kazakhs and their features. Kazakhs are a monolithic nation. The Kazakhs' heads are arranged with the same worldview. And Kazakh and Kazakh will never be at enmity. "Kazakh is not at war with Kazakh" - the credo of our nation. Any Kazakh can say that he thinks like most Kazakhs. Even if two Kazakhs meet with different points of view, at the right moment they will think in the same direction. In this sense, we differ from the Russians, who would rather unleash a fratricidal war before agreeing with an opponent. Kazakhs will prefer a compromise with a co-blood. "All Kazakhs are relatives to each other" is the second credo of Kazakhs. And since unity for Kazakhs, above a personal point of view, and since Kazakhs would prefer to agree with a Kazakh opponent instead of hitting him on the head (especially when there are non-Kazakhs nearby), then in most cases, any Kazakh can consider that he speaks on behalf of all Kazakhs. A dispute between Kazakhs always has a line, after which the Kazakhs will have a common point of view, or at least stop arguing. This is the mentality. Therefore, Kazakhs are a close-knit nation. Rearing up or a common cause of all Kazakhs (Kyrgyz, Mongols, Bashkirs) is an easy task. We don't have sayings like "my yurt is on the edge". Everything is always the same.

                        Soviet power (I'm talking about managers) consisted practically of only Slavs and Russified. What's next to argue? There were only a few foreigners. And there were practically no Muslims (by origin) at all. Do you know a lot of Kazakhs, Tatars, Bashkirs, Yakuts, Kalmyks, Tajiks and others in the top-level party nomenclature? Were they all stupid to such an extent that Soviet education could not pull Asians out of the backward swamp? Let's not play the fool. All power in the USSR was in the hands of ethnic Slavs, primarily Russians. There were Jews at first, but even under Stalin they were harshly extinguished.
                        I could understand you if they said something like: "We, the Russians, built Baikonur, but we killed the Kazakhs a lot in 32-33, this is the fault of our people" - then I would see the desire to be responsible. Otherwise, I see only an escape from responsibility and a desire to appropriate those merits that do not belong to this people, but belong to the Kremlin.
                        ZY Do you consider me a Russophobe and a nationalist?))) Yes, for God's sake, here and the administrators think so, they are people too, and they are also offended when the Kazakhs do not understand, for which we should be "grateful" to the Russians and why, in this case, the Russians "do not are to blame "for the catastrophes that happened to the Kazakh ethnos during the period of being a part of Russia / USSR. Some Russians have a very simple and comfortable position on this issue.
                        We do not consider Russians to be responsible neither for achievements, nor for crimes and mistakes of the Soviet government. It is only in your head that the Kazakhs have any claims to the Russian people))))
                      20. -1
                        5 July 2013 23: 25
                        I apologize for not answering you right away ... well, it's too late ... than never. I see that you are progressing, unfortunately not for the better, as an interlocutor you are not interesting to me, you are interesting to me as a sick person (this is not an insult, only for health) ... well, I will not torment, in order
                        Kazakhs are a monolithic nation. The Kazakhs' heads are arranged with the same worldview. And Kazakh and Kazakh will never be at enmity. "Kazakh is not at war with Kazakh" - the credo of our nation.
                        , you have already fallen from the monolith of the nation ... since your president shows the exact opposite to you, saying that he fell ... I think to upset yourself with a lie, so you ...
                        "All Kazakhs are relatives to each other" is the second credo of Kazakhs. And since unity for Kazakhs is higher than a personal point of view, and since Kazakhs would prefer to agree with a Kazakh opponent instead of hitting him on the head (especially when there are non-Kazakhs nearby), then in most cases, every Kazakh can consider that he is speaking on behalf of all Kazakhs.
                        , this is your method to take and allow yourself to speak from all Kazakhs ... Do you want a parallel? I’ll bring you ... in a madhouse, patients, too, using a sick creed proclaim themselves Napoleon on behalf of all Frenchmen ... By the way, the word creed - use correctly, creed, ideology proper, and a look at these or other things ... I gave you your creed to you Yesterday - you are Russophobe to the bone marrow ...
                        Still, I can tell you. reading what you write, I come to the conclusion ... that the nationalist ... in terms of the letter, you even the folklore of the nation, turn against the nation itself ... original ...
                        We don't have sayings like "my yurt is on the edge". Everything is always the same.
                        and although the fact that you paraphrased the Ukrainian proverb, I would not advise you to judge the peoples by them ... For the educational program, I will also give "either the will to get it or not be at home" ... and in general, your Kazakh nation has no negative moments, I will not enumerate ... I will get tired ... for this very reason, you are ideologically already a Fuhrer ... and mind you I am writing to you ... and I am not saying anything about the Russians glorifying them ...
                      21. 0
                        5 July 2013 23: 26
                        Using the example of the Soviet government ... you showed that, to put it mildly, you are floating in the history and concept of its terms ...
                        Soviet power (I'm talking about managers) consisted almost of the Slavs and Russified.
                        Soviet power is the power of workers and peasants ... I understand what you were talking about when writing managers ... and I’m not fooling with you, but there were educated and competent people from the more literate central Russia in the administration.
                        Was it really all stupid to such an extent that the Soviet education could not get the Asians out of the swamp of backwardness?
                        yes, mind you wrote so ... And you should have known. You probably take the backlog in the formation of pre-revolutionary Russia and the first five-year plans of Soviet power as a fairy tale. And the war delayed this process. The Soviet Union, literally until the 80s, it eliminated illiteracy ... And when it was liquidated, people from the local community became managers ... And you can’t argue ... I’ll tell you with confidence that from the mid-60s, the Communist Party of the Kazakh SSR consisted of mainly Kazakhs
                        then I would see the desire to bear responsibility.
                        , well, you are bent ... I wrote above about your negative progress ... You are not the Lord God, to repent and be responsible before you ... Moreover, as a person blinded only by hatred ... you often break down, say tales reinforced by a smart word ...
                        Do you consider me Russophobe and nationalist?
                        Yes ... I just don’t think you really are both. Do you know why? I will say the most important thing ... I thought you understood me yesterday ...the fact that you want the truth and repentance of the entire Russian people (maybe by the way, it should be), from one, two arguers with you on this resource gives you both a Russophobe and a nationalistAnd imagine that you would be endowed with the power of Hitler, Stalin ... and at least Nazarbayev? That was? I'm scared to think ...
                      22. Marek Rozny
                        -2
                        14 July 2013 12: 08
                        Quote: papss
                        I see that you are progressing, unfortunately not for the better, as an interlocutor you are not interesting to me, you are interesting to me as a sick person

                        You need to be treated, since you do not understand the meaning of what you are told. You insisted on h.ernyu instead of answering, you composed nonsense yourself, you prove it yourself, you argue with it yourself, you yourself sit handicap in front of the monitor. You, hr.enov "doctor", it is better to worry about your health. And horse-eaters have no health and genetics problems.
                      23. +1
                        3 July 2013 23: 49
                        Quote: Marek Rozny
                        Suffering from autism

                        Is this also related to radiation? without any tricks, there is a medical report on a causal relationship.
                        the topic is extremely sensitive, and when you consider that 98% of people involved in it do not know how gamma radiation differs from beta or alpha, they confuse bombs with charges, then I'm sorry
                2. +2
                  3 July 2013 22: 14
                  And where else are there places close enough to the Urals and at the same time arid enough so that during the tests there was no groundwater contamination and far enough from "probable friends"?

                  By the way, the tests were carried out not only in Kazakhstan. Novaya Zemlya, Totsky training ground.
                3. +1
                  3 July 2013 22: 18
                  Quote: teodorh
                  my question is why during the ussr a nuclear testing ground was created on our territory

                  Well, judging by the question, the question of your not-so-cleverness becomes clear, not only did you teach history, it’s not clear, but you also skipped geography
                  and as for the test of nuclear weapons, let it be known that they were conducted not only in the Kazakh SSR
    2. Cat
      +7
      3 July 2013 17: 44
      Quote: Jarserge
      . Moldavians will disappear from the face of the earth as mammoths will remain only Romanians.


      The old Chukchi dies ...
      He called his eldest son to himself, said to him:
      - A son! Save the fire! Fire is heat, this is food, this is life! Got it
      - Got it, father.
      Calls the middle son:
      - And you, son, take care of the water! Because without water, as they say, neither tuda nor syuda.
      “Good, father.”
      Summon the Chukchi Junior:
      - And you, son, take care of the Moldovans.
      - Well, but ... why should I take care of them ???
      - Because when the last Moldavian disappears, we Chukchi will turn out to be the most stupid people on Earth ...
    3. +1
      3 July 2013 20: 58
      Quote: Jarserge
      It would be nice for Moldavians to know their story.

      Yes, there would have been one Kotovsky with a brigade.
  28. +1
    3 July 2013 17: 49
    Quote: avt
    How do you imagine this technically in the absence of a border with Transnistria?

    This is all technically solved. We already have one enclave. It will be 2. If Russia joins Transnistria, there will immediately be technical solutions for how it will manage it. And Ukraine, no matter how anyone is interested in good relations with Russia. Although everything is wonderful for her now (as I understood for myself over the past week), quarreling with Russia is like death to her. Well, or a serious illness ...
  29. 0
    3 July 2013 17: 56
    But the fact that Moldova and Romania signed a similar agreement ... Who said that Moldovans love Putin? Who chose those who sign such agreements? So: don't ...
  30. +4
    3 July 2013 17: 57
    [quote = Manager] [quote = sumcream56] What are these Romanians? This is the Germans! [/ Quote]
    This is the Romanian SS [/ quot [quote = teodorh] [quote = Jarserge] They so want to be second-class citizens [/ quote]
    As if under the USSR they were citizens of the "first grade" [/ quote]
    I would be silent ... everyone worked in posts and directors ... no one made them second grade ... according to their education ... Well, as a keepsake, the names of all the leaders of the MSSR ... But under the new government, you are you won’t be like half the Romanians in the government, as there is no Moldovan leader Chisinau ...
  31. +3
    3 July 2013 17: 59
    It is necessary to turn Romania into Wallachia. Annex the Moldavian region and Bukovina to Russia, and give Transylvania to the Magyars.
  32. The comment was deleted.
  33. +2
    3 July 2013 18: 06
    Romania I think it’s not worth it to discuss it on such a site .. (they will get the full poke and NATO will not help)
  34. +6
    3 July 2013 18: 10
    Quote: Today, about 170 of thousands of Russian citizens and 100 of thousands of citizens of Ukraine live in Transnistria. This is the territory of the Russian Orthodox Church.
    We must not abandon our compatriots in trouble. For moral support, the song: We are Russians.
  35. 0
    3 July 2013 18: 21
    If the Moldovans dare to step on the Georgian rake out of their "big" mind, the result will be similar. Our peacekeepers will be obliged to protect the attacked side. NATO for the Moldovans will not fit, even with the participation of the Romanians, there is no legal basis. It seems to me that the EU has already come to terms with the status of Pridnestrovie, but under pressure from Romania, it gives them the opportunity to swagger in the end, in order to ruffle Russia's nerves, if any preferences suddenly break off.
  36. sumcream56
    -9
    3 July 2013 18: 23
    It is best to return to the borders of 1939. Transnistria -Ukraine. A piece of Odessa region - Moldova with Romania. As for the ram over Odessa, the Romanian of the Soviet bomber, what kind of chernukha is it? This is evidence that not all Romanians are cowardly gypsies. And the participation of the Romanian armies in the war against Germany since August 1944 is also a dirty trick? By the way, even before this, a division named after Todor Vladimirirescu was formed from captured Romanians, who fought on the side of the USSR.
    1. 0
      3 July 2013 18: 38
      And the participation of the Romanian armies in the war against Germany since August 1944 is also a dirty thing?
      Anyone who says chernukha ... is not informed ...
      At the end of 1944-1945, the Romanian ground forces very actively fought as part of the Soviet fronts. In addition to the already mentioned Bucharest-Arad operation and the Debrecen operation, the Romanian armies participated in the Budapest operation, in the Western Carpathian operation, in the Prague operation. The total losses of the Romanian troops after August 1944 amounted to 129 people, of which 316 people died, died from wounds and disappeared, 37 were wounded and sick. [208]

      http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Википедия Румыния во ВТОРОЙ Мировой войне.
  37. sky17176
    +2
    3 July 2013 18: 25
    Well, the West showed its face. What successes in the negotiation process can be discussed if the Moldovans are practically preparing for the force option, and the whole world is talking about the need to change the Russian peacekeepers. If Russia leaves Transnistria, there will be a 1992 variant with larger negative aspects. Then the Moldavians will unite with the Romanians and take away Odessa, and what will happen next.
    So where is European security, is it not obvious that this treaty is directed against Transnistria and Ukraine.
  38. sumcream56
    -2
    3 July 2013 18: 36
    I’ll clarify so as not to be unfounded. Allaces.ru ›cgi-bin / s2.cgi / rom / publ / 01.dat
    Romanian aviation in World War II
    © M.Zhirokhov, 2004-03-30
    The author is grateful to Alexander Stratulat (Chisinau, Moldova) for the assistance provided.
    “So, junior lieutenant aviator Vasile Claru from the 2nd Fighter Flotilla, in an air duel with six enemy aircraft, having spent all the ammunition, rammed an enemy fighter with his IAR-80. The pilot's feat was appreciated - he was posthumously awarded army - the Military Order "Mihai Vityazu". Romanian pilots fought over the territory of Czechoslovakia for 144 days.
    In total, until the end of the war (on May 12, 1945), the 1st Corps accounted for 8542 sorties and the destruction of 101 enemy aircraft (along with anti-aircraft gunners). Losses amounted to 176 aircraft shot down by fighters, air defense and crashed in numerous accidents in the conditions of bad weather in winter - spring of 1945.
    Specific data is available only on the participation of "henshels", on the rest - the data is fragmentary. So, in five months of hostilities, from December 19, 1944 to May 11, 1945, the pilots of the 41st assault squadron (Hensheli) flew 422 sorties, having flown 370 hours and dropping 130 tons of bombs. As a result of the squadron's actions, 66 columns of enemy troops were scattered, 185 cars and 66 horse-drawn carts were destroyed, at railway stations the Henschel pilots smashed 13 trains, among other destroyed enemy property - artillery, mortars, machine guns. The squadron lost eight HS-129B attack aircraft. Pilots of "pieces" only in Slovakia made 107 sorties, having flown 374 hours. They dropped 210 tons of bombs at 37 railway stations and 36 enemy positions. The destroyed were recorded 3 tanks, 61 trucks and 6 anti-aircraft batteries.
    During the entire war, the Romanian Air Force lost 4172 people, of whom 2977 were fighting for Germany (972 dead, 1167 wounded and 838 missing) and 1195 fighting against Germany (356, 371 and 468, respectively). However, the war ended a bit later for the Romanian aviators . On May 11, the Romanians performed strikes against parts of the Russian Liberation Army of General Vlasov. The Vlasovites had nothing to lose, and they desperately resisted in the forests near Hungarian Broad. On the evening of May 11, 1945, airplanes (several bombers under cover of four Bf-109Gs) returned from the last combat mission of the Romanian Air Force in World War II.
    The end of the war the Royal Romanian Air Force met even in worse condition than June 22, 1941. In fact, the aviators were left alone with their problems amid the complete cessation of the supply of spare parts for aircraft. The future was foggy ..
    By the way, according to the NATO charter, an attack on any NATO member means the immediate entry into the war of the entire bloc. "But Ukraine will not provide any assistance to Transnistria, do not hope. This country is an even worse political prostitute than Romania. According to many authors, the Romanian occupation of Odessa in comparison with German in other cities was a "fairy tale".
    1. -2
      3 July 2013 19: 01
      I found a video on Romanian women-pilots in World War II on the Eastern Front.
    2. 0
      4 July 2013 00: 45
      By the way, according to the NATO charter, an attack on any member of NATO means the immediate entry into the war of the entire bloc.
      In this case, no one is going to attack Romania, but some power units or even Romanian troops on the territory of Moldova or Transnistria hypothetically entered into an armed confrontation with Russian peacekeepers, this is a completely different song that has nothing to do with the NATO charter. And finally, Russian peacekeepers in Transnistria have a UN mandate and their direct task is to prevent a clash between the warring parties and protect civilians. hi
  39. +3
    3 July 2013 18: 52
    according to the NATO charter, an attack on any member of NATO means the immediate entry into the war of the entire bloc
    , I forgot to add, I need the approval of NATO, so that it enters Transnistria ...there are not small fools and not small foolsto get into this ... Well, about Ukraine and its prostitution, this is true until its interests are affected ... Ukrainian Slavs will die ... the situation is changing dramatically ... Yes, and yet ... to whom Ukraine doesn’t understand the appetite of Romania ... swallows Prenistria ... wants Odessa and Chernivtsi ... so do not calm yourself ...
    1. sumcream56
      -2
      4 July 2013 10: 59
      As for the population of Northern Bukovina, the Chernivtsi region, by the way, is the birthplace of Sofia Rotaru, 45% of the population are Romanians. Here would be to make an exchange-Northern Bukovina first entered the USSR in 1940. And Transnistria, unlike Bessarabia, has never been a part of Wallachia and Moldova. By the way, Moldova has never been a special nation. Bessarabians are part of the Romanian nation. As for Transnistria. Legally, even Russia considers it to be Moldavian territory. Given the correlation between the population and the desire of Moldovans to wash toilets in Europe, two-thirds in a referendum will vote for unification with Romania, unless the Romanians want it, and Ukraine has already lost Romania to the Snake Island in an international court. Yanukovych will raise his country against NATO? Isn't that funny for you? Well, the orange ones, if they return to power, they will generally lick everything from NATO.
      1. 0
        4 July 2013 12: 51
        By the way, Moldova has never been a special nation
        what do you smoke? But what about the Principality of Moldova? With his story? The thing is that it has not been around for a long time ... and that it just served as the creature that united Wallachia with Romania ... only this does not allow us to say that Moldova was not ... Meaning do not undermine ... showing that there was no Moldovans ... you cross out the history of the Principality of Moldavia ... starting to study the issue from the history of Romanians. Bessarabians? Original ... like cabbage rolls ...
        Для "умных" - http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B4%D0%B0%D0%B2%D1%81%D0%BA%D0
        %BE%D0%B5_%D0%BA%D0%BD%D1%8F%D0%B6%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%BE
        As for Transnistria. Legally, even Russia considers it to be Moldavian territory
        and whoever argues, yes, Moldavian ... no, Romanian ... Here you entered the legal side ... then 45% of the Romanian population (who themselves, over the past 5 years, are becoming citizens of Romania accelerated, like Moldovans, became Romanians), in your opinion, gives them the right to chop off a piece from Ukraine ... or make an exchange ... just ask 55% of the remaining Western Ukrainians ... they will answer you ... You probably haven’t been there, but I'm frequent there guest ... and knowledge in history, that Romania, that you do not have Moldova ...
        Given the ratio of population to the desire of Moldova to wash toilets in Europe
        , you do not decide for Moldovans, you simply do not have such a right .. where are you washing yourself?
        Ukraine has already lost the Snake Island in Romania to an international court
        lost ... a big word. The dispute was long ... since the days of the USSR. And there are such things that need to be thrown off ... they are not worth it. Only now, in such lush heads like yours, let the thought creep in that everything is so simple. What are you all the time NATO, NATO ... what kind of NATO, do not cover the aspirations of the Romanian clique to chop off lands and the aspirations of NATO ... There are of course those eagles too ... But they are friends with the head ... and get the fire - you will personally extinguish the Romanian lives. ..and how with the island it’s not a ride with everyone ...
  40. Constantine
    +4
    3 July 2013 19: 14
    Moldovan, apparently, did not have any national pride at all, since they are ready to lay down tiles and tiles in European apartments and erase their own country. It’s just not conceivable and I don’t have words to rate this act briefly.

    On the other hand. In the case of Transnistria. If they are handed over to Moldova, then this may turn us away from those who look at Russia as a savior, and there are more, I dare say, more. In other words, all work to strengthen the country's image and positions in the foreign policy arena will be in vain because Russia will look like a paper tiger, which is not acceptable.

    At the same time, I believe that our management, having more extensive information, will make the right decisions, as it does with respect to ATS, for example.
  41. 0
    3 July 2013 19: 19
    Interesting article.
    War will not be they are not really id *** you. soldier
  42. ed65b
    +1
    3 July 2013 19: 21
    Manstein’s discussions on the order of the Romanian army complement
    cretinize the memories of an officer of the Wehrmacht, commander of a sapper battalion
    Major G. Waelz. In his book “The Soldiers Who Are Betrayed,” dedicated to
    the battles for Stalingrad, he described the foundations in the Romanian company: the company commander
    “He gives out the food. He has his own special system here. First of all,
    the officers' bowler hats — meat and beans, almost without liquid. Then
    non-commissioned officers. They catch the remains of the thick from the boiler. And all that
    stays - warm tasteless water goes ordinary. That’s the rule ... Instead of-
    the beating that gets the food ... The soldier will still get his portion of the beatings - not-
    it is important whether he is wounded or sick, frostbite or even exposed
    amputations. It is clear to me that the fighting spirit of soldiers does not rise from this, only
    hatred of officers is pouring ... Romanian peasant guys have no
    chickpeas of rest, they are busy from morning to night. They not only have to serve and
    to please their company and platoon commanders, but to get the most for them
    conceivable things to create coziness in officer dugouts. Moreover,
    entire platoons are engaged in a matter which ordinary death cannot think of.
    ny ... Today, 40 soldiers are busy building a special stable for
    mitzey captain racehorse mare Mademoiselle. It is more spacious and warmer than in
    any shelter for soldiers ... "

    It is interesting to have a change or everything is the same.
  43. True
    -1
    3 July 2013 19: 42
    Between Moldova and the Black Sea there is a small isthmus of Ukraine. If you fit the ships of the Black Sea Fleet, then it is quite possible to naughty rockets in Moldova wink
    1. Igoriok222
      +3
      3 July 2013 23: 58
      Is it okay that about 500000 Russians live in Moldova? And what did ordinary Moldovans do to you? You can exterminate power, but common people are not to blame. You are too cool on statements!
  44. +3
    3 July 2013 19: 51
    The whole world is divided on the contrary and new countries appear, and Moldovans voluntarily refuse their country ... I think the Kurds and Uyghurs are a little bit a ** e from the actions of this nation ...
    1. +2
      3 July 2013 21: 09
      ... And everyone wants to be great: either a great caliphate, then a great neighbourhood horn, now a great gypsy camp. am
      1. 0
        3 July 2013 22: 37
        Yes, the greatest Romanian country will in any case be a regional power only. But the Arab caliphate should not be underestimated. The fact is that this is a supranational project of the Arabs, theoretically even France can turn out to be an enclave ... So in this regard, you need to keep your eyes open ...
  45. GEO
    GEO
    0
    3 July 2013 19: 55
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    Quote: seasoned
    It’s time for Russia to join Transnistria,

    Together with Kishenev soldier
    By the way, and that there is an army in Romania, I have never seen brave Romanian soldiers request

    And you ask your grandfathers, they will tell you about them how they "fought" in the 43rd near Stalingrad laughing
    from a Romanian soldier, like from th ... a bullet.
    Let them step on the Georgian rake ...
  46. +1
    3 July 2013 19: 56
    Quote: True
    Between Moldova and the Black Sea there is a small isthmus of Ukraine. If you fit the ships of the Black Sea Fleet, then it is quite possible to naughty rockets in Moldova

    Two drunken warrant officers in two tanks are enough ... with audio systems with the song "Get up. Great country, get up to mortal battle .. !!" Panic is guaranteed .. (a joke of course and yet ....))))
  47. ObnaPur
    +1
    3 July 2013 19: 59
    But what, the Romanian army is the most combat-ready, invincible, and does it have any victories to boast of?
  48. GEO
    GEO
    0
    3 July 2013 20: 00
    the phrase "Romanian army" gives me a cognitive dissonance ...
  49. +1
    3 July 2013 20: 03
    I do not think this is possible. Russian bear - he is a harsh beast.
  50. GEO
    GEO
    +4
    3 July 2013 20: 18
    Quote: sumcream56
    It is best to return to the borders of 1939. Transnistria -Ukraine. A piece of Odessa region - Moldova with Romania. As for the ram over Odessa, the Romanian of the Soviet bomber, what kind of chernukha is it? This is evidence that not all Romanians are cowardly gypsies. And the participation of the Romanian armies in the war against Germany since August 1944 is also a dirty trick? By the way, even before this, a division named after Todor Vladimirirescu was formed from captured Romanians, who fought on the side of the USSR.

    and you are not fucked up, a gray-winged eagle, scattered Russian lands ???
  51. +1
    3 July 2013 20: 21
    Debriefing will be mandatory..(after a while..))))
  52. +1
    3 July 2013 20: 22
    Now, in the event of a war with Transnistria, the Romanian army will openly enter there, and the Romanian gendarmes will suppress any protests against the unification of the two countries...

    Laugh.
  53. +2
    3 July 2013 20: 26
    It feels like we need to shove a big, thick Russian ... fist under Romania’s nose, so that they can feel what it smells like ... - they are really pushing for something. Has there already been a referendum on joining Russia in Transnistria? We must quickly carry out this and Russia must quickly agree. - Although humorous, but rational.
  54. Che
    Che
    +1
    3 July 2013 20: 28
    Quote: Mister X
    Then the whole group got out of the moat and the boys together hung the mantle to the Romanian officer,
    and then they threw him into the same ditch with water.

    wassat Well done, remember your Soviet training.
  55. +2
    3 July 2013 20: 33
    According to legend, Kaiser Wilhelm asked the opinion of the Chief of the General Staff, Moltke, about Romania joining WWI, and he answered with soldierly directness: “We don’t care, Your Majesty, on whose side Romania enters the war. If it’s ours, it will take 10 divisions to save it from defeat. If it’s against, the same 10 divisions will be needed to defeat it.”
  56. theodorh
    -4
    3 July 2013 20: 37
    These are the facts about looting. These are not ghostly years in WWII. This is 2008. Before accusing Romanians of looting, watch this video.

  57. sasin2008
    +2
    3 July 2013 20: 43
    Guys!!! If something happens, we will invest in the Romanians, declare the Transnistrian Independent Republic and that’s it!
    Transnistria, Ukraine and Russia are still 90 in the throat!

    I was also interested in the Moldavian reconnaissance aircraft! For a couple of years now, Moldova has not had more than one fighter, interceptor, etc., there are only 2-AN72:1-AN26:and 2-AN2))))
  58. +10
    3 July 2013 20: 55
    Offended Kazakh...I will give you reasons for my answers...
    1. You’re a Kazakh, talk about what you had, I live in Moldova, and I know who was a second-class citizen here, but you transferred your problem to the Moldavian one... did you want to hook on Russian imperialism? So he wasn’t here...And when the Kazakh issue is discussed, I won’t get involved...since I don’t know him...
    2. Nuclear tests in Ryazan or Pskov, do you wish death to the residents of these cities? Answer, honest Kazakh? Why did Kazakhs die from explosions? Why were fertile lands destroyed...? Talking about this is like comparing how many Russians died defending Kazakhstan, including the Kazakhs... Common enemy... common deaths...
    3. Don’t confuse those who call you churks and Papuans, just like the Moldovans here are called Romanians with cultured, educated people. By proposing to carry out poisonous explosions near Ryazan and Pskov, you became one of them...
    4. “Good colonizers” - this was invented by “enslaved” people like you. I’ll tell you...Russia has never colonized anyone. Russia is a multicultural country... This is its ideological and religious postulate... And colonization according to the principle of the Anglo-Saxons is an excavation of the Indians... I see you are educated and healthy... you speak and write well in the language of the invaders and colonizers...
    1. theodorh
      -3
      3 July 2013 21: 09
      Quote: papss
      I live in Moldova


      The fundamental question is: do you live in Moldova or are you a Moldovan?

      People are still dying from the consequences of these explosions to this day.

      I did not propose to explode in Ryazan and Pskov, I asked why here, here and not there?

      Did we invent good colonialists? On the contrary, I say that all colonialists are equal, there are no good ones. Everyone is bad because they are colonialists.

      You know, they almost forced me to study Russian.
      1. +7
        3 July 2013 21: 33
        The fundamental question is: do you live in Moldova or are you a Moldovan?
        So you opened up...No, but I’m not Russian either! In your opinion, only a native resident can love their Motherland? And those Kazakhs who died in the steppes of Ukraine and near Pskov? Didn't they die for their people? Do you think this makes me less of a patriot of my Motherland than you? Or will you now say or think that I am the one who was first-class here... No... My friends are Moldovans, Russians, Ukrainians... And that Molavan who is here in the video is arguing with a Romanian about the Red Army... What should we do with him?
        2. You also built Baikonur...the damned colonialists...and the entire scientific complex of institutions in addition to it. Is this also colonization in your opinion?
        3.
        On the contrary, I say that all colonialists are equal, there are no good ones. Everyone is bad because they are colonialists.
        And I say call a spade a spade! Russia is not a colonialist! And it never was... just as you were not subjugated and captured... It would have been like this... and your later autonomy, people and construction would not have existed... Only explosions were...
        4.
        You know, they almost forced me to study Russian.
        ...I won’t argue where you could be forced to learn Russian! Well, this hasn’t made you any worse... you write and speak normally... I would be proud of that. Here you are on a Russian forum, you can argue, defend your point of view. Does this make you feel bad? Unfortunately, I don’t know Kazakh...and I can’t do that on your resources...
    2. Marek Rozny
      -5
      3 July 2013 22: 16
      Many Kazakhs suffered from radiation due to nuclear explosions. Almost 500 bombs exploded - this is no joke. Almost ten bombs every year. Every Kazakh citizen has seen numerous photographs of deformed children born this way due to radiation.

      Yes, fertile pasture lands have been destroyed. The Semipalatinsk region in general has very good pastures. For the sake of these lush meadows, Kazakh herders fought to the death with the Dzungars for centuries, waging a war of total destruction.

      On the territory of the Kazakh SSR, the Semipalatinsk test site was not the only one. There were other places in Kazakhstan for testing nuclear and bacteriological weapons. In general, 12% of the territory of Kazakhstan (out of 3,25 million sq. km) was given over to military training grounds. This is 327 thousand square kilometers. This is 10 times the territory of Moldova. So the scale is clearer?

      There is no need to present Russians as defenders of Kazakhstan, while keeping silent about Kazakhstan’s contribution to the Victory. The Kazakh SSR gave the largest percentage of population mobilization. Kazakh oil from Mangyshlak fueled Soviet tanks, and the phrase “9 out of 10 bullets were cast from Kazakh lead” set people on edge. I'm not even saying that all the military units formed in Kazakhstan, without exception, have proven themselves at the highest military level.
      Well, I remind you that Hitler had no plans to seize the territory of the Kazakh SSR; on the contrary, Germany officially said that it would help the Soviet Turks create their own state. Hitler's plans were only up to the Urals. And then "Lebensraum" ended. Well, that's by the way.

      The fact that Turkestan was a colony of the Russian Empire was actually written in Soviet textbooks on the history of the Kazakh SSR and the Central Asian republics. In Soviet times, Kazakhstan, for some reasons, remained in the position of a colony, although in general one cannot deny the positive aspects of being part of the USSR, and there were more of them than negative ones. But nevertheless, there was infringement at all levels. Unlike the Soviet Slavic republics, Kazakhstan did not have a separate representation in the UN. The Kazakh language and Kazakh culture were driven below the plinth. The consequences of the forced Russification of the Kazakhs still loom large. An educational system in the Kazakh language was never practically created. As a result, by 1991, most Kazakhs did not speak their native language at all. This is fine? Frankly speaking, this is a common assimilation policy.
      1. Marek Rozny
        -2
        3 July 2013 22: 20
        If we consider the industry of Soviet Kazakhstan, we see an ordinary raw materials colony, from which natural resources were only pumped out. At the same time, no significant industry related to the production of consumer goods was ever created in Kazakhstan.
        In its political structure, Kazakhstan also had the rights of a colony. The republic could not take any independent steps. And during all the years of being part of the USSR, ethnic Kazakhs themselves were only allowed to govern their republic a couple of times. The overwhelming majority of Kazakhstan was ruled by Slavic appointees, natives of the RSFSR and Ukrainian SSR. Absolute ignorance of the desires of the Kazakhs to see their own people at the helm of the republic (albeit Russians, but Kazakh Russians, and not any leftists who had previously seen Kazakhstan only on a geographical map) led to the sad Almaty events of December 1986.
        Well, everyday nationalism on the part of ethnic Slavs in Kazakhstan was, to put it mildly, almost overt. There is no Kazakh who has not encountered this in his life. And, by the way, the topic of Russian everyday nationalism was first discussed during the “debriefing” after December 1986. Representatives of the KGB of the Kazakh SSR stated that “Kazakh nationalism” is a response of the Kazakhs to numerous cases of manifestations of “Russian chauvinism.” This was announced in 1986. Although this topic, naturally, was not emphasized then, so as not to escalate the situation. They preferred to punish only “Kazakh nationalists”.

        Kazakhs are generally calm about the Soviet past. But when they start treating us with bullshit about how we were blessed with Disneyland, the Kazakhs start to get irritated. Yes, there was a lot of good from the Soviet government (and not from the Russian people), but there was also a lot of shit from it. Especially in the first decades of Soviet power. And when they start sticking out one side, forgetting about the “excesses”, this angers the Kazakhs.

        And regarding “we, Russians, didn’t drive you into the reservation as Indians,” let me remind you that the Kazakhs in Kazakhstan under Soviet rule halved in 20-30 years. One quarter of the Kazakhs died, another quarter was forced to flee Kazakhstan. These are gigantic numbers for any nation. I'm not even talking about the fact that the Kazakhs suffered significant losses from repression (here, however, like other peoples of the USSR). And Russians prefer not to remember that before the revolution, Kazakhs were forcibly driven from their lands (like Indians in America) in order to transfer these lands to Stolypin’s homeless migrants. But this led to the fact that in 1916 the entire Kazakh steppe exploded against Russian power. And then a lot of blood (both guilty and innocent, both Russian and Kazakh) was shed in the steppe. And you pretend that nothing like that happened...
        1. +1
          4 July 2013 08: 45
          Yeah right now raw materials! AZTM (torpedoes for the fleet) or the Kirov plant in Ata for example!!! Or the Utes machine gun plant in Uralsk, Or the radio-electronic factories collapsed in Almaty!!! Factories producing synthetic rubber in the Karaganda region are collapsed!!! Once again, 1986 - exhibited here as heroism (the monument was erected on Mira Street and renamed!!) - in fact, just a speech by the Nazis! I tell it like it is!
          "They preferred to punish only 'Kazakh nationalists'." - and there were only Kazakh nationalists there! Is not it so? In my opinion, it was not the Russians who initiated these speeches... But under Kolbin everything was fine...
          1. Marek Rozny
            0
            4 July 2013 14: 49
            Quote: T80UM1
            Yeah right now raw materials! AZTM (torpedoes for the fleet) or the Kirov plant in Ata for example!!! Or the Utes machine gun plant in Uralsk, Or the radio-electronic factories collapsed in Almaty!!!

            Should Kazakhs be grateful for these factories? Can you tell me why the hell Kazakhstan is producing torpedoes? These factories were built to ensure the security of the USSR, but it is the Kazakhs who should be grateful? What the hell? Are military factories only for Kazakhs? No, of course, for the entire USSR. So why are you silent when Russians demand here on this page to be “grateful” for them? Did the Kazakhs have anything from these factories? Their profit was not even included in the structure of the Kazakh SSR’s GDP, because reported directly to Moscow ministries. I understand if they built us a plant tailored specifically to the needs of Kazakhs/Kazakhstanis, trained local personnel and hired them there. But things were usually done differently. In Moscow they decided what product they needed, in KZ they built a plant (usually in the mining industry) + social infrastructure for immigrants, they imported specialists trained in Russia from trainee to director, the plant successfully pumped out resources. That's all. Why make a fuss about the fact that “Russia built factories/cities for you”? In the villages of my parents, the Soviet government built only the minimum infrastructure for the functioning of state farms. Nobody built theaters there, of course. The vast majority of Kazakhs during the years of Soviet power were rural residents. Cities were built not for Kazakhs, but exclusively for immigrants from European republics. I'm not saying it's good or bad. I tell it like it is. No one gave away apartments for free to the Kazakhs. Few could count on being distributed somewhere to get an apartment in the city. Kazakh-speaking people could not receive higher education in their native language and therefore a significant part of the Kazakhs were forced either to have only a rural Kazakh secondary education or to Russify/assimilate. This seems normal to you, but not to me.
            You know very well that almost all of our industry consisted of raw materials factories. Plus a certain percentage of military factories. There are still a few factories producing products for the industrial sector, and a very insignificant drop of factories producing consumer goods and food products.

            About 1986 - if in Russia the head of the administration of some Dagestan city is appointed (without asking the opinions of other Russians) to the post of President of Russia - how will the Russians behave? Will they clap their hands? So why did the Kazakhs have to endure it when from some Ulyanovsk they sent us a “homo incogita” for the position of the first leader of the republic? Why should the Kazakhs be happy about this? And if we assume that the opinion of the Kazakhs should not be taken into account in the Soviet state, then the question arises of how well this state meets the needs of the Kazakh nation? And if you love Kolbin, you love him in Ulyanovsk. And what was done with him? You can also compare the scope of his actions with Kunaev... Kunaev is still respected by the people. And when he mentions Kolbin, he spits. I’m talking about the Kazakhs, and not about those to whom the Ulyanovsk official is “more dear” for ethnic reasons than “some” Dinmuhammed. If you like Ulyanovsk officials, go there. Not a single Kazakh from Kazakhstan in Russia has ever been appointed to a position even on a regional scale. And even among 1 million Russian Kazakhs, there is only one civil official, Aman Tuleyev. And even that was not installed by Moscow, but by local people.
            1. 0
              4 July 2013 15: 03
              I repeat once again, we did not live in Kazakhstan at that time, but in the USSR, and there is no need to consider the current situation as to why “the Kazakhs were not in chocolate.” For the USSR it is necessary, not only Kazakhs live in the USSR, is that clearer? All your complaints begin that the Kazakhs were given years of Soviet power, but the Kazakhs needed it or not. Think from a different point of view, more global than local. From this bell tower one can judge why we needed the Asian Games 2011 or Expo 2017 or why we need the CU...

              “If you like Ulyanovsk officials, go there.” - yeah, suitcase, station Russia, tell me, it’s great, and you’re still blabbering about tolerance, you yourself are still a nationalist... Under him there was more order than under the respected man whose birthday we will celebrate next week...
              1. Marek Rozny
                0
                4 July 2013 15: 26
                Quote: T80UM1
                I repeat once again, we did not live in Kazakhstan then, but in the USSR,

                Damn, right there every Russian points out that all this was built specifically for the Kazakhs and demands “gratitude”)))) they say, what kind people we are - the Kazakhs, out of the kindness of our souls, built Khrushchev and Baikonur.

                Maybe first look at your brothers from Russia and explain to them that we then lived in the USSR and that decisions were made not by the “Russian people”, but by the Soviet government. and that all this was not built for the needs of Kazakhstan exclusively, but usually on the contrary - exclusively for the needs of the USSR.
                1. 0
                  4 July 2013 15: 35
                  That’s what I do, but in our forms they simply say: occupiers, this is not your land, Russian muzzles, uruspai, akkulak, etc. And what conclusions will we draw based on individuals?

                  I am not russian...
                  1. Marek Rozny
                    0
                    4 July 2013 16: 36
                    Nobody tells the Russians that they are occupiers or mugs. The land of Kazakhstan is non-Russian, what is there to argue about? “Oryspai” is a normal word, the same as “Kazakpay” (meaning “simple Russian”, “simple Kazakh”). Akkulak, sarybala - “white-eared”, “red-haired guy” are traditional Kazakh words in relation to Russians. No more offensive than the words "red-skinned", "pale-faced". This is far from the same thing as “chock” and “chernozh_py”. There is no negative connotation here. Ironic, playful - yes, but nothing more.
                    And moreover, you know very well that Kazakhs in real life are not predisposed to nationalist predilections. A Kazakh can start talking about a national topic only if he himself is insulted on ethnic grounds or put in the role of second-class. There will be no reason - the Kazakh will not care who you are by nationality or religion.
                    Do you personally have a lot of problems with “Kazakh nationalists” in real life?
                    And even if you refer to the forums, pay attention to who is more there - Kazakh provocateurs or ordinary Kazakhs who don’t care about the national issue? And compare with Russian forums, where chauvinism rushes from every corner. Even on this page. Everyone - blacks, Kazakhs, Moldovans, Romanians and others - are ki, untermensch, ungrateful and savages. Compare with Kazakh forums. Is it very similar? You know the answer, no.
            2. 0
              4 July 2013 15: 07
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              In the villages of my parents, the Soviet government built only the minimum infrastructure for the functioning of state farms. Nobody built theaters there, obviously.

              not tired of lying?
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              So why did the Kazakhs have to endure it when from some Ulyanovsk they sent us a “homo incogita” for the position of the first leader of the republic?
              Do you even know who the First Secretary of the Central Committee is?
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              You know very well that almost all of our industry consisted of raw materials factories. Plus a certain percentage of military factories. There are still a few factories producing products for the industrial sector, and a very insignificant drop of factories producing consumer goods and food products.

              some yell, fed others, oppressed and pumped them out, neither the first nor the second topics know, well, they pretend to be experts
            3. 0
              4 July 2013 15: 14
              “Few people could count on being distributed somewhere to get an apartment in the city.” - well, of course, it’s mostly representatives of the “Master of the Country” who still live in elite areas, while national people live in microdistricts and non-elite areas...
              “Kazakh-speaking people could not receive higher education in their native language” - the natives did not even know how to write in this native language at that time and now, and you say study... They still prefer to take knowledge of Russian and English into important fields... Even now, after 20 years of “prosperity,” normal textbooks will not be written. Teachers cannot teach Kazakh properly, there is no base...
              1. Marek Rozny
                0
                4 July 2013 19: 43
                Quote: T80UM1
                “Few people could count on being distributed somewhere to get an apartment in the city.” - well, of course, it’s mostly representatives of the “Master of the Country” who still live in elite areas, while national people live in microdistricts and non-elite areas...

                The main urban population of Kazakh cities (except for South KZ, where Kazakhs historically lived in cities) by 1991 were ethnic Slavs. It was they who received apartments as immigrants from the European part of the USSR, and not ethnic Kazakhs, who for the most part were residents of villages.

                “Elite houses” appeared already in the years of independence, but they are not given to anyone just like that, and who has money in their pocket. People bought this home for money. Nobody gave Kazakhs apartments either in Soviet times or during the years of independence. Exception: housing for civil servants during the years of transfer of the capital and apartments for honored figures.

                In Soviet times, it was immigrants from Russia, not Kazakhs, who received apartments in Kazakh cities under construction. So the thesis “tell us thank you for building your cities” is absurd. Cities were not built for Kazakhs. We had practically no technical universities; all personnel were trained in Russia and Ukraine, which is why there were few Kazakhs in technical fields. In Kazakhstan, the emphasis was on agricultural specialties, the path of a Kazakh with higher education turned out to be “village-agroinstitute/agrotechnicum-aul”. According to the notorious “directions”, Kazakhs were usually not sent anywhere outside of Kazakhstan - after graduation they were sent back to their native village to work.
                There were, of course, a few technical universities (polytechnics), but this was clearly not enough to prepare a critical mass of technicians in the republic, and the Soviet government did not have such a task. The authorities were happy with the fact that Kazakhs herd sheep and serve in the army, and Russians occupy all other niches, both within the USSR and within the republic. And if a Kazakh wanted to get a different education in order to settle in the city, then he had to become as Russified as possible. Or is it a complete surprise for you to learn that for some reason the urban Kazakhs are Russified? You yourself laugh at the dramatic situation with the Kazakh language among the Kazakhs and at the same time, apparently, deny the process of forced Russification. Don’t understand how this happened or don’t want to understand? Do you want to remember how many Kazakh schools there were in the capital of the Kazakh SSR with a population of one and a half million in Soviet times? Before perestroika, there was only 1 school with Kazakh language of instruction. In the capital of Kazakhstan. After the December events, a second Kazakh school was opened in 1989. Kunaev's attempts to change the education system were fruitless. The installation from Moscow was tough - one Kazakh school is enough. Is this how the Soviet government cared about the Kazakh language, culture and education? For 70 years, the Soviet government did not lift a finger to ensure that the Kazakhs received a Kazakh-language education system. Moreover, attempts to create Kazakh schools were automatically equated with “nationalism.” And despite the fact that in the post-war years, Kazakhs naturally increased in number, like other peoples, the number of Kazakh schools, on the contrary, DECREASED. In the 70s there were even fewer Kazakh schools than in the pre-war years. Now do you understand why Kazakhs often say: “with another 70 years of Soviet power, there would be no more Kazakhs”? There would be Mongoloid Russians. Does this seem incredible to you? Look at how the Turkic and Finno-Ugric peoples of Russia have become Russified.
                Kazakhs do not want the fate of the Chuvash or Yakuts. And we do not consider the construction of a nuclear test site in exchange for the loss of a language to be adequate or normal. I don’t think that the Russians will agree to host Belarusian nuclear test sites in exchange for the fact that Belarusian will become the state language in the Russian Federation instead of Russian.
      2. Marek Rozny
        -1
        3 July 2013 22: 20
        If we consider the industry of Soviet Kazakhstan, we see an ordinary raw materials colony, from which natural resources were only pumped out. At the same time, no significant industry related to the production of consumer goods was ever created in Kazakhstan.
        In its political structure, Kazakhstan also had the rights of a colony. The republic could not take any independent steps. And during all the years of being part of the USSR, ethnic Kazakhs themselves were only allowed to govern their republic a couple of times. The overwhelming majority of Kazakhstan was ruled by Slavic appointees, natives of the RSFSR and Ukrainian SSR. Absolute ignorance of the desires of the Kazakhs to see their own people at the helm of the republic (albeit Russians, but Kazakh Russians, and not any leftists who had previously seen Kazakhstan only on a geographical map) led to the sad Almaty events of December 1986.
        Well, everyday nationalism on the part of ethnic Slavs in Kazakhstan was, to put it mildly, almost overt. There is no Kazakh who has not encountered this in his life. And, by the way, the topic of Russian everyday nationalism was first discussed during the “debriefing” after December 1986. Representatives of the KGB of the Kazakh SSR stated that “Kazakh nationalism” is a response of the Kazakhs to numerous cases of manifestations of “Russian chauvinism.” This was announced in 1986. Although this topic, naturally, was not emphasized then, so as not to escalate the situation. They preferred to punish only “Kazakh nationalists”.

        Kazakhs are generally calm about the Soviet past. But when they start treating us with bullshit about how we were blessed with Disneyland, the Kazakhs start to get irritated. Yes, there was a lot of good from the Soviet government (and not from the Russian people), but there was also a lot of shit from it. Especially in the first decades of Soviet power. And when they start sticking out one side, forgetting about the “excesses”, this angers the Kazakhs.

        And regarding “we, Russians, didn’t drive you into the reservation as Indians,” let me remind you that the Kazakhs in Kazakhstan under Soviet rule halved in 20-30 years. One quarter of the Kazakhs died, another quarter was forced to flee Kazakhstan. These are gigantic numbers for any nation. I'm not even talking about the fact that the Kazakhs suffered significant losses from repression (here, however, like other peoples of the USSR). And Russians prefer not to remember that before the revolution, Kazakhs were forcibly driven from their lands (like Indians in America) in order to transfer these lands to Stolypin’s homeless migrants. But this led to the fact that in 1916 the entire Kazakh steppe exploded against Russian power. And then a lot of blood (both guilty and innocent, both Russian and Kazakh) was shed in the steppe. And you pretend that nothing like that happened...
        1. +6
          4 July 2013 00: 46
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          If we consider the industry of Soviet Kazakhstan, we see an ordinary raw materials colony, from which natural resources were only pumped out. At the same time, no significant industry related to the production of consumer goods was ever created in Kazakhstan.

          Uralsk plant Zenit, Pavlodar tractor crawler "Kazakhstan" which plowed fields from the Baltic to Kamchatka, Ust-Kamenogorsk condenser, pneumatic automation, Taldykurgan submersible pumps, two battery-powered ones, Almaty Zhetysu shoe factory, Giganskaya sewing knitting factory, Carpet, Baldyrgan bicycles, Alma washing machines -Ata, two gigantic dairy plants No. 1 and No. 2 Zhiger at which he saw milk deacidification installations which even today were unheard of in the French alphaval, there was such a level of automation!!! Semipalatinsk is the second largest meat processing plant in the USSR, Issyk of electronic parts, Talgar pipe of union significance, Kapchagai porcelain, lamp, unfinished, that’s what I remember, but in general there was a lot more, starting from bearings, sleepers, rails, cement, reinforced concrete high-voltage masts and bridge structures, asbestos, transformers, rolling mills and turbines, and even weapons factories and elements for space rockets and fuels and household chemicals, etc. This is not counting hundreds of collective farms of cattle, chicken coops of thousands of heads of sheep... The famous Alma-Ata Aport variety of apples was planted and raised by the entire union.
          Z.Y. Our relatives brought carpets from the Almaty factory to us in 84 from Almaty as a gift, as many as three pieces of real woolen ones to Pskov!
          1. Avenger711
            0
            4 July 2013 01: 37
            No matter what you explain to him, he doesn’t understand that without the Russians, he would still be living in a yurt.
          2. Marek Rozny
            0
            4 July 2013 02: 54
            Zenit Plant - defense industry
            Pavlodar Tractor Plant - tractors (but in fact it is a reserve for defense production, it has a design capacity of 55 thousand tractors per year, where do we need that many, if you think about it?)
            and other factories are factories that produce related products for Russian and Ukrainian factories that produce finished products. Where are the consumer goods???
            Yes, there was the production of clothing and shoes. But do you remember what they released? I remember my mother worked in the clothing industry (Orenburg) and I once had to run around with her around KZ on her business. Sad shit that was absolutely uncompetitive even within the framework of the wretched Soviet trade. Although the AKHBK fabrics were decent - that's a fact. In real life, people did not buy ready-made clothes made in Kazakhstan, but AKHBK fabrics and sewed their own clothes. This is the level of light industry in the Kazakh SSR. I myself took down a bunch of homemade clothes that my mother sewed from Almaty fabrics. Orsk's pseudo-jeans were even cooler than any model of clothing made in Kazakhstan. However, the main consumer of the Kazakh light industry was not the ordinary Kazakhstani, but the ordinary Soviet army. That’s why our factories didn’t give a damn about the consumer and his needs. The main thing is that foot wraps, overcoats, sweatshirts, etc. are sent to the troops on time. Although at the very end of the 80s, some factories actually received new imported machines for the production of civilian clothing. Wow! For 70 years of Soviet power!
            Almaty carpets - gut. No questions.
            Is the dairy industry a prominent representative of Kazakh consumer goods? Well, which Kazakh dairy plant produced concentrated milk or condensed milk? Can't remember? Because they weren't there. We didn’t make cans or bottles. But bottles were even brought from Russia to pack milk, but there were no traces of tin lines. Perishable milk, kefir, fermented baked milk - that's the whole line. The Semsky meat processing plant worked exclusively for military needs. His products were not sold in stores. Issyk electronic parts? What are the details from? Is this TNP? I’m generally silent about cement and transformers. Did you even understand what I was talking about? All factories in KZ were focused on raw materials (the main part of KZ industry), the rest of the industry worked for the defense industry and as subcontractors for Russian enterprises. Just remember what you could buy in a store from Kazakhstan-made goods? Yes, they even started producing mayonnaise in the early 90s! In the store until 1991, you could buy our goods: a piece of fabric, bread, vodka, beer, sugar, cigarettes, leather shoes (I remember these inflexible things very well), bowls, a can of juice. And that's all by and large. Plus, it was difficult, but it was possible to find a Medeo radio, a carpet (not in all regions) and socks. Everything else was produced by other republics. It is pointless to compare the volume of industrial production of consumer goods and the raw materials sector, the military-industrial complex. The Kazakh SSR is exclusively a raw material industry (plus grain and meat production) and the defense industry.
            1. Marek Rozny
              +1
              4 July 2013 02: 55
              Factories aimed at the average Kazakh consumer made up a tiny part of the share of the KZ industry. And the bulk of the production went to the RSFSR. Moreover, all the flagships of the Kazakh industry were not subordinate to the government of the KazSSR, but were directly under the control of ministries located in Moscow. Their production was not even counted in the balance sheet of the Kazakh SSR. How does the industry of the Kazakh SSR differ from the industry of the colony? Moreover, you yourself know that the indigenous population in those years was not particularly involved in industry. Now we frankly say that Kazakhstan was a raw materials appendage. They pumped out to the maximum, poured in to the minimum. And at the same time we are still forced to “grate” for this industry. What joy is it for the Soviet Kazakh that factories were built in Kazakhstan that extracted natural resources, if they did not benefit Kazakhstan? Let Kazakhstan now build mineral extraction plants in Russia, not pay taxes, and appropriate all the products for itself. And we will wonder why the Russians don’t thank the Kazakhs for pumping out Russia’s mineral resources for Kazakh needs? How does this scheme differ from the one in Soviet Kazakhstan? What should the Kazakhs be grateful for if they exported more from the republic than they imported? In Russia they really don’t understand this. I am not against the fact that the mineral resources of Kazakhstan benefited our entire large country. But I am categorically against it when they try to force us to be “grateful” for it. And here every day on the forum smart people write: “We built factories and cities for you!” Cities were built for immigrants from Russia and Ukraine, but the majority of Kazakhs lived in villages until 1991. Let's be honest - not a single city was built for the Kazakhs themselves. It was necessary to accommodate Slavic migrants, future industrial workers. That's the whole reason. The Soviet government needed Kazakhs only in agriculture and in the army (not in high command positions, of course). Not a single Kazakh in all 70 years of Soviet power could even become a mid-level official of union importance. Everyone was hitting the ceiling. All the highest positions were occupied by either Slavs or Caucasians from among the Christian peoples (plus Jews, where would we be without them). And not only Kazakhs found themselves in the air, but also Germans, Koreans and other non-Russians. And don’t say that this happened by accident. Kazakhs already understand everything perfectly well and do not present anything. You just don’t have to pretend that in the USSR everything was fine in national politics and everyone was treated equally. I still don’t know the answer to the question: why did the Slavic republics have the right to a separate vote in the UN, but the non-Slavic republics did not?
          3. 0
            4 July 2013 09: 23
            I agree, there was a lot of things and a lot of them were destroyed and taken for scrap, it’s a shame...
      3. +5
        3 July 2013 22: 47
        There is no need to present Russians as defenders of Kazakhstan, while keeping silent about Kazakhstan’s contribution to the Victory
        this is apparently addressed to me... yes, I wrote this, but don’t take my phrases out of context, I wrote this too
        And those Kazakhs who died in the steppes of Ukraine and near Pskov? Didn't they die for their people?
        so I am not keeping silent about the role and contribution of Kazakhstan...Your faith in Hitler is higher than the faith in the Russian people...yes, according to the Barbarossa plan, the Germans went to the Arkhangelsk-Astrakhan line...So what? By the way, you added that it will help create a state...Well? You have had a state for 23 years...What have you built? What are you proud of? I read your messages carefully...You don’t like what cliches tell you...but you also write only cliches of independent thinking...they took everything from you, built nothing, starved you, blew them up, stifled culture...Hitler walked to help - they didn’t let me get there. And therefore Russia-Russians are to blame for everything...Build it all alone! Does not work? The same problems as EVERYONE... there are enemies all around... Your president is more progmatic (whom you elected and re-elected all these years)
        1. Marek Rozny
          0
          3 July 2013 23: 27
          Kazakhstan has a lot to be proud of for what it has done over the past 2 decades. We eat ourselves and let our neighbors eat. We don’t walk around the world with a hat. There is no mass unemployment, no rampant crime (the main crime is road accidents and corruption). There is no reason to worry. The state was completely established. It's a sin to complain. Even Hungary is asking us to borrow money)))) and in Romania, a Kazakh state company bought RomPetrol - you probably know what kind of company this is? We wanted to buy something else in Romania, but we didn’t find anything else interesting)))
          I treat Hitler as an enemy. I simply reminded you that he had no plans to conquer Kazakhstan. So it turns out that the Kazakhs fought for Russia, and not the Russians for Kazakhstan. It sounds rude, but how could it be different if Germany did not intend to invade KZ? And yet, I am proud that the Kazakhs, together with other peoples of the USSR, finished off this non-human. And they were absolutely right. To sully by friendship with a ghoul means to sully oneself.
          And in general, it is strange to hear accusations of the failure of Kazakhstan as an independent state from Moldova, whose residents earn money in Romania and Russia. You apparently confused Kazakhstan with other “countries”. We re-elect Nazarbayev every time, because (why should we be embarrassed) the Kazakhs are becoming richer in material terms from year to year. And being a citizen of Kazakhstan is not the least bit shameful.
          ZY Kazakhs blame the Soviet government, not the Russian people, for the mistakes and excesses of the Soviet government. And the Kazakhs thank the Soviet government for the achievements of the Soviet government, and not the Russian people. What's unclear here? The Kazakhs are simply against the Russians appropriating all the advantages of Soviet power, while gracefully disowning the “shoals” of this system. The Russians who came to build something in KZ did not come on the spur of the moment, but on the orders of the state. And they worked for free, of course. Only prisoners built the Kazakh SSR for free. And even then - under duress, and not of one’s own free will. Why the hell should I thank (or scold) a separate ethnic group if this was done? by the will of the Soviet government, and not "people's Russian veche".
          1. +2
            3 July 2013 23: 40
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            but how could it be different if Germany had no intention of invading KZ?

            Why did you make this thoughtful conclusion?
            1. 0
              4 July 2013 08: 48
              I don’t know, but Hitler had a plan to put the former Kokand khan Mustafa Shokai in the Gros Turkestan region... By the way, for some reason in KZ they make a hero out of Shokai!
              1. Marek Rozny
                0
                4 July 2013 16: 02
                Quote: T80UM1
                I don’t know, but Hitler had a plan to put the former Kokand khan Mustafa Shokai in the Gros Turkestan region... By the way, for some reason in KZ they make a hero out of Shokai!

                1) Shokai was not a khan. He was the head of the democratic Kokand Autonomous Republic, created after the collapse of tsarism. In fact, this is the government of all Turkestan. He never had any anti-Russian ideas. He is from a simple Kazakh family. Very educated, studied in St. Petersburg. He adhered to democratic principles, which is why he became like a bone in the throat of the Bolsheviks. After the defeat of the Kokand government (and the defeat was in the full sense of the word, including artillery shelling of the city), Shokai was forced to emigrate to Europe (he lived in France).
                2) When Germany attacked the USSR and millions of Soviet soldiers ended up in the camps, Shokai turned to the German leadership in 1941 with a proposal to alleviate the plight of prisoners of war of Turkic nationality - to release them from their concentration camps and form them into workers' organizations. At the same time, Shokai was CATEGORICALLY against the idea of ​​the Germans using the Turks as combat units. Shokai is a Kazakh, and as a Kazakh he understood that this was contrary to the Kazakh mentality - “a Kazakh does not shoot at a Kazakh!” Kazakhs in the Wehrmacht should not shoot at Kazakh Red Army soldiers (and, in general, at Soviet fellow citizens). Shokai proposed creating military units from Turkestans only if the Red Army was defeated, the USSR was destroyed, and then an independent Turkestan would need its own army. But Shokai angrily rejected the Germans’ proposal to lead the Turkestan Legion (to fight the Red Army), although he understood how it would end.
                "...seeing how representatives of the nation that raised such geniuses as Goethe, Feuerbach, Bach, Beethoven, Schopenhauer treat prisoners of war... I cannot accept the offer... to lead the Turkestan Legion and refuse further cooperation. I am aware of all the consequences of my decision." - these are his words from a letter to Ribbentrop (he oversaw the creation of the Ost battalions).
                As a result, the intractable Shokai SUDDENLY died. The members of the Turkestan Committee themselves were convinced that he was poisoned by the Germans (with the help of the Uzbek Vali Kayumov, a defector from the USSR). Vali Kayumov did not hesitate like a proud Kazakh, but joyfully accepted the offer to lead the Turkestan Legion. He openly talked about his plans to become the ruler of an independent Turkestan.
                But Mustafa Shokai, who was an ardent and main supporter of the independence of Kazakhstan (and Turkestan) from Soviet power, did not make a deal with Hitler. And as it turned out, he was absolutely right. The Turkestanians at the front were remembered by the Germans only for the fact that they killed German commanders everywhere and entire units returned to the side of the Red Army and the partisans.
                Shokai saved tens of thousands of Kazakhs, Bashkirs, Tatars, Uzbeks, Kyrgyz, and Azerbaijanis, pulling them out of the camps and creating the preconditions for leaving the concentration camp. Instead of starvation, the Turkestanians and Volga Turks got a chance to improve their health and, when the opportunity presented itself, beat the Germans in the rear. Almost all Turkestan units of the Wehrmacht gave the Germans such “surprises.” There are still many people living who were saved thanks to the activities of the Turkestan Committee, which arose thanks to the ideas of Shokai.

                Well, now compare with what you wrote. Countryman, you are wrong. It’s a pity when Russians who don’t know our history write nonsense, but it’s even more offensive when their own Russian Kazakhs show their ignorance of the history of Kazakhstan. Shokai is a hero. And he chose to give up his dream of seeing an independent Kazakhstan rather than taint himself with friendship with the Nazis and lead the Kazakhs to kill their fellow citizens.
          2. +3
            3 July 2013 23: 52
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            I treat Hitler as an enemy. I just reminded you that he had no plans to conquer Kazakhstan

            of course it was not, and could not be due to the absence of the state of Kazakhstan as such
            1. Marek Rozny
              0
              4 July 2013 06: 10
              Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
              of course it was not, and could not be due to the absence of the state of Kazakhstan as such

              Then don’t forget that Russia formally did not exist then either. There was no such state during the Bolshevik era. Stop talking about this topic, Vovochka.
              1. -1
                4 July 2013 14: 18
                Marik, you just need to fart on the topic, no, it doesn’t matter, well, it doesn’t matter whether it’s on the topic or not.
                p/s/ the funny thing is that Russia existed and they fought with Russia and not with the name
          3. +2
            4 July 2013 00: 25
            You are a very nimble person, and don’t think that I don’t see you...having two degrees...competent in matters...Thank God, I graduated from economics and psychology...So...apparently the pride of Kazakhstan has bypassed you . Do you think,
            So it turns out that the Kazakhs fought for Russia, and not the Russians for Kazakhstan
            , and that while fighting for Russia, they didn’t also fight for Kazakhstan? You see...it's like a Rubik's cube...you can twist it in different directions...you do it in yours, I do it in mine. And then you don’t tolerate the superiority of the Russians... but then (out of pride), you expose the superiority of the Kazakhs
            Kazakhs together with other peoples of the USSR
            , reproaching others for primacy...be more modest yourself...About Hitler, you apparently prepared plans with him, since you know them so well...You are a well-informed person, and remember...that he called Russians Asians ...well, how about Asians - subhumans...and such faith is a gift from him...the state. Yes, he did not attack Kazakhstan...there is no common border...but if he had found out about your oil...gas...he would have personally given you free movement in the concentration camp...By the way, about oil and gas...and about Moldova , its residents earn money not in Romania, but in the EU and Russia... and it has no oil and gas, but it is poor and I didn’t confuse anything... in terms of living standards... you are not much ahead... here in terms of territory and mineral resources hundreds of times. A question for you, an effective manager of Kazakhstan...why don’t you live so many times better? But the Soviet government got in the way...Now about it...You're getting out of it again. here, firstly, it’s not the Politburo of the CPSU Central Committee, and you started talking about Soviet power only now... secondly, before that there were attacks in pre-Soviet Russia; thirdly, who even argued with you about Soviet power... Other comrades, by the way, gave an example, indirectly, that she is to blame for the troubles of Kazakhstan... you rejected them... called them a cliche
            And the Kazakhs thank the Soviet government for the achievements of the Soviet government, and not the Russian people. What's unclear here?
            It’s not clear that you assigned the Kazakhs to Soviet power... but the Russians did not... and that the Russians were not part of the Soviet government?
            The Kazakhs are simply against the Russians appropriating all the advantages of Soviet power, while gracefully disowning the “shoals” of this system.
            you apparently often communicate with such Russians... although this does not give you the right to speak like that about all Russians, just as it does not give you the right to speak on behalf of all Kazakhs... it slides with you - Kazakhs against... Kazakhs in general.. .and so on...And don’t call Russians an ethnic group...don’t pretend that you don’t know (or maybe you don’t know) that an ethnic group exists within the state, that part of it that is located on a compact territory within one political ( potestar) education and thus represents a certain socio-economic integrity...our ethnic group is Gagauzia, and a Russian can call himself and consider himself both a Don Cossack and at the same time a Slav.
            1. Marek Rozny
              0
              4 July 2013 06: 01
              The bullshit has been thrashed.
              1) Germany officially spoke about its ultimate plans. The Turks would receive a separate state (“Greater Turkestan”). This was announced back in 1941. If you are not in the subject, then don’t be smart. The Germans counted on the separatism of the Soviet Turks and created first Ost-battalions of the Wehrmacht from Turkic prisoners of war. Hitler said that the Turks of the USSR were a reliable and worthy ally of Germany. He, of course, said this in advance, but in 1941 he was sure that the Turkestanians and Volga Turks would follow Hitler. So, formally, Hitler did not make any territorial or political claims to the Turkic peoples of the USSR, but even vice versa. He treated the Slavs as untermensches, and the Turks, in his opinion, (as well as the Japanese) are something like “yellow Aryans”, and not untermensches. This is the official policy of Nazi Germany. Another thing is that the Kazakhs and other Turks chose to fight against Hitler. And they did the right thing, since Hitler is a non-human. And it doesn’t matter how he treated us - good or bad. And yet, based on the statements of Nazi Germany, formally it turns out that the Kazakhs fought not for Kazakhstan, but for Russia. After all, it was she who was threatened with death in the event of the defeat of the Red Army, and not Kazakhstan. Inventing that Hitler would allegedly attack Kazakhstan later is an empty matter. Maybe he would attack, maybe he wouldn’t - these are just your fantasies. The fact remains that Germany promised independence to the Soviet Turks. Dot.
              2) In terms of living standards, KZ is several heads higher than Moldova. From KZ, no one travels to neighboring countries to earn money. It's you who are in deep trouble. But it’s a sin for Kazakhs to complain. People in KZ live better than in the Russian Federation (now the Russians will start to have a highway). Real wages are generally the same, but prices are lower. And we have more order than in the Russian Federation. Look at the dynamics of GDP growth in Kazakhstan over the past 15-20 years. Maybe you'll think about it. Especially considering that the standard of living in the Kazakh SSR was one of the lowest in the USSR (they were in 13th or 14th place among the republics).
              1. Marek Rozny
                0
                4 July 2013 06: 03
                In addition, our oil revenues do not go towards plugging budget holes and for social costs. We collect this money for the National Fund - this is our reserve for a rainy day. We earn money even without oil and gas. KZ is undergoing an industrialization program (not at Stalin’s pace, but not bad). Factories open every other day. We have a labor shortage. We started producing everything from glass and furniture to cars, electric locomotives and helicopters (assembly + localization). The share of the manufacturing industry is growing very quickly. Export of goods goes both to the CIS countries and to foreign countries. We even send industrial goods to China. In addition, we actively invest in different countries - Russia, the CIS and Eastern Europe. Our level of industrial production is already higher than in the Soviet period. The standard of living is growing steadily. And this is not propaganda, but banal reality. Visit Kazakhstan once and you will understand why the Kazakhs show off so much. We have something to brag about, so we brag about it. Having minerals is no guarantee of prosperity. Uzbekistan has a bunch of mineral resources, but as a result, the people work as laborers like Moldovans in other countries. Who is stopping you from farming? At least raise the winemaking industry, otherwise you’ll just be exporting butchered wine. Kazakh meat, Kazakh grain (flour, pasta), Kazakh vodka are synonymous with the highest quality, and we proudly give Kazakh chocolate (of any brand) to all foreigners, because it is a high-quality product. And Moldovan wine is synonymous with surrogate swill)))) We make quality things, and what the hell are you doing?
                Regarding gratitude to the Russians, I am grateful to the Russian people of Kazakhstan. These are people who voluntarily accepted the citizenship of Kazakhstan and work here, glorify and enrich Kazakhstan. How can you not be proud of them? But for the Kazakhs, this is not an abstract “Russian people”, but a part of the Kazakh people. And their merits begin in 1991, and before that it was the merit of the “Soviet government”, and not the “Russians”. Russian Kazakhs work in Kazakhstan and for the benefit of Kazakhstan. This is our wealth. And their work until 1991 was in favor of the USSR and not the Kazakhs, but all the peoples of the USSR should be grateful to them. Just like the Russians, Russia must be grateful to the Kazakhs for the work of the Kazakhs in favor of the USSR. It is clear now? The Kazakh worked for himself and for the neighboring republics, and as a result, Kazakhstan was a donor republic of the union budget, and Kazakhstan was never in the role of a dependent. But Moldova seemed to be a subsidized region. Am I right? Don’t you want to say thank you to the Kazakhs because we filled the USSR budget instead of you? ;)
          4. RA77
            +4
            4 July 2013 02: 14
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            Kazakhs blame the Soviet government, not the Russian people, for the mistakes and excesses of the Soviet government. And the Kazakhs thank the Soviet government for the achievements of the Soviet government, and not the Russian people. What's unclear here? The Kazakhs are simply against the Russians appropriating all the advantages of Soviet power, while gracefully disowning the “shoals” of this system.


            Gamarjoba! Oyy lol Salaam aleikum!))

            Russians were still dominant in the USSR (I do not separate Ukrainians, Russians and Belarusians considering them one people) And no matter how you fuss using the vague formulation “Soviet power”, when talking about excesses and achievements, you are still talking about Russians in the first place , you just don’t want to show it. This is the first.

            Secondly, I don’t know about the others, but I don’t at all deny any excesses of the Russians during the Soviet era. Thanks to us, the Russians, there have been many times more achievements, and you, too, are now living largely thanks to these achievements of ours. If we had not tested atomic and hydrogen bombs at the test sites of Kazakhstan (where, in a rush to get the Amers, we all screwed up, yes), you, like us, would now either be a colony of the Anglo-Saxons and would not have complete control over our natural resources, or burned out after the Amers’ nuclear strike wasteland.

            Quote: Marek Rozny
            The Russians who came to build something in KZ did not come on the spur of the moment, but on the orders of the state. And they worked for free, of course. Only prisoners built the Kazakh SSR for free. And even then - under duress, and not of one’s own free will. Why the hell should I thank (or scold) a separate ethnic group if this was done at the behest of the Soviet government, and not by the “Russian people's veche”.


            Not by order, but by assignment after college! Like some of my relatives from Kazan. And the fact that these people were sent to Kazakhstan and worked for the benefit of this land - that’s what you should be grateful for. But you are an ungrateful person, judging by your posts here.

            And regarding a separate ethnic group, I will say that Russians here and in general believe that they built everything in Kazakhstan because the design and development of all large (and not only) construction projects in Kazakhstan were carried out exclusively by Russians (or Slavs. I repeat, I do not share Ukrainians, Russians and Belarusians considering them one people - Russians). There were negligibly few other nationalities there. Who was already carrying cement and laying bricks at the construction site itself does not matter. At least the blacks are from Africa! Their role is secondary. Although there were many Russians among the builders at these construction sites. Therefore, I think the Russians are quite right in thinking that they built everything in Kazakhstan and that you should be at least a little grateful. The Kazakhs themselves simply would not have been able to design everything that was built during the Soviet era. And in order not to be completely unfounded, as an illustration I will give a list of designers who created the Buran shuttle: http://www.buran.ru/htm/kontruk.htm As you can see, there are almost only Russians) A similar situation was at other objects during the USSR.
            1. Marek Rozny
              +1
              4 July 2013 05: 05
              Quote: RA77
              And no matter how you play around using the vague wording “Soviet power”, speaking about excesses and achievements

              where is the julenie??? I explain to you for the hundredth time to all the “breadwinners and educators” that the Kazakhs do not consider the Russians responsible either for the achievements or for the tragedies of the Soviet period. It’s you who are trying to attach one thing to yourself, and at the same time get rid of the other. you are already pouring out guano in droves just because they tell you - The Russian people and the Soviet government are not the same thing. and if you think that it is the same thing, then you must bear responsibility for all the sins of the Soviet regime. be consistent. do you want the Kazakhs to say “Rakhmet” for the schools they built, apologize on behalf of the entire people for the famine of the 20s and 30s, which were caused by the actions of the Soviet government, apologize and light a candle in honor of the repressed Kazakhs, give posthumous awards to those Kazakhs who deserved it with their blood during the war, but never received it for ideological reasons. Recognize that Kazakhstan gave more to the country than it received back. Then the Kazakhs will consider the Russians responsible for the schools and hospitals they built. Why would I be grateful to those who is not responsible for anything and is convinced of his holiness? fell out of the woods? The Soviet government killed half of the Kazakhs, and Russified the remaining half. and there are no guilty ones? but, of course, there are heirs to the glory of the “creative people”... you either openly consider yourself to be “Soviet power” and admit that you were the people-ruler over others, or step aside. What’s not clear here?
              Quote: RA77
              you, like us, would now be either a colony of the Anglo-Saxons and would not have complete control of your natural resources, or a wasteland burned out after the nuclear strike of the Amers.
              It's easy to come up with reasons to rise up. and if I write like this: “if not for the ancestors of the Kazakhs, the Russians would have been crushed by the Catholic military machine in the 13th century and completely destroyed as a separate nation”? A? Are you ready to start kissing the hands of the Kazakhs for saving them from the Vatican-Teutonic genocide? What's wrong with the argument? Same as yours.
              1. Marek Rozny
                +1
                4 July 2013 05: 06
                quote=RA77]And the fact that these people were sent to Kazakhstan and worked for the benefit of this land - that’s what you should be grateful for. But you are an ungrateful person, judging by your posts here. [/quote]
                Whoops, did these people work for free in Kazakhstan? If yes, then I will be grateful to them. And if for a salary, then should I thank them? Do you kiss Tajik guest workers who build houses in Russia in a burst of gratitude for their work for the benefit of Russia?

                [quote=RA77]And regarding a separate ethnic group, I will say that Russians here and in general believe that they built everything in Kazakhstan because the design and development of all large (and not only) construction projects in Kazakhstan were carried out exclusively by Russians (or Slavs. [/quote]
                And at the same time, the Russians were the main part of the Red Army in the 20s and 30s, when they shot the Kazakhs. Russians in this case were the main nationality of the party administration of Kazakhstan during the famine of 32-33. These were also almost exclusively Russians. So let's start figuring it out? Until the end of the 30s, Kazakhs did not serve in the Red Army and the NKVD - there were only Russians and Jews there. In general, there were only a handful of Kazakhs in the state administration of the republic, and only for five minutes at a time, then they were shot. By 1938, the entire Kazakh intelligentsia was shot without exception. Let's remember the nationality of the firing squads. There were definitely no Kazakhs there. I’ll say it again, most Russians stubbornly stick out their nationality in “good” deeds, but excuse themselves from “bad things.” Do you want gratitude from the Kazakhs? Try to apologize to all the people first. Are you to blame for the disasters? Then you are also “not to blame” for the achievements of the Soviet regime.
                1. +3
                  4 July 2013 11: 23
                  Marek cannot be beaten with a whip. I understand that writing here on the site about a different vision of general history is necessary for anyone who wants to read and think. The information is also important: when the old people told me about nuclear explosions on the territory of the Shymkent region, I didn’t believe it, but from the list I see that there were not one. They don’t want to admit their mistakes, but only want to count their achievements, this is also normal, people are built that way, it’s easier to live (in this, people of all nations are the same, even cannibals, when they eat their enemies, say this is necessary for the victims so that their courage and strength are not in vain disappeared.)
                2. RA77
                  0
                  4 July 2013 19: 00
                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  Whoops, did these people work for free in Kazakhstan? If yes, then I will be grateful to them. And if for a salary, then should I thank them? Do you kiss Tajik guest workers who build houses in Russia in a burst of gratitude for their work for the benefit of Russia?

                  Are you even from this planet, huh? Or do you argue all the way and don’t care what to say?
                  Paying people for their daily work is mandatory. This is an incentive to work in general and a means of livelihood. However, this does not mean that if you pay people a salary, then there is nothing to thank them for. People came with good intentions, to raise the general level of culture, knowledge, and achievements in an area where this is difficult. For this.
                  As for guest workers... Gasters go for the ruble, they generally have low culture and education. Those people who went to the republics of the USSR are, apparently, people with secondary or higher education, chorus. culture and they are clearly not going for the ruble.
              2. RA77
                -1
                4 July 2013 18: 28
                Quote: Marek Rozny
                where is the julenie??? I explain to you for the hundredth time to all the “breadwinners and educators” that the Kazakhs do not consider the Russians responsible either for the achievements or for the tragedies of the Soviet period. It’s you who are trying to attach one thing to yourself, and at the same time get rid of the other. you are already pouring out guano in droves only because they tell you that the Russian people and the Soviet government are not the same thing. and if you think that it is the same thing, then you must bear responsibility for all the sins of the Soviet regime. be consistent. do you want the Kazakhs to say “Rakhmet” for the schools they built, apologize on behalf of the entire people for the famine of the 20s and 30s, which were caused by the actions of the Soviet government, apologize and light a candle in honor of the repressed Kazakhs, give posthumous awards to those Kazakhs who deserved it with their blood during the war, but never received it for ideological reasons. Recognize that Kazakhstan gave more to the country than it received back. Then the Kazakhs will consider the Russians responsible for the schools and hospitals they built. Why would I be grateful to those who are not responsible for anything?

                Where is the julenie? Soviet power is Russians in the absolute majority. By making claims to the Soviet authorities, you are making claims to the Russians. You understand this yourself, because you say it in the comments above. #comment-id-1301709 And all the achievements and mistakes of the Soviet period are all, with some reservations, the achievements and mistakes of the Russians, mainly. And we recognize our achievements, but we do not deny our mistakes. Regarding the rest, I will reveal to you and those people from Kazakhstan who support you one sacramental thing that you apparently do not understand or do not want to understand. Equality can only exist between those who are approximately equal in strength. And if someone is stronger, then in the general case, with the rights of the strong, he will always get his way. This is fair and is not discussed. This is how it has always been and this is how it will always be. Kazakhstan is no match for Russia. Politically, economically, technically and most importantly militarily, we are much stronger than you. If God forbid there is a war between you and us, we will win. And if we have a normal ruler who does not stand on ceremony, then we will tear you to shreds in a matter of days. And therefore, during the times of the USSR, our common country, we SOMETIMES acted in relation to your territory and you, the Kazakhs, in a way that was beneficial to us and the common state. And no one is going to make excuses for this to you, much less ask for your forgiveness. There were some mistakes, yes. For example, I think that Khrushchev acted very stupidly by starting this whole topic of virgin soil. Even then they told him that this was a mistake, that the lands would fall into disrepair, but he did not listen to anyone. However, the fact that Kazakhstan gave more to the country than it received back, sorry, but that’s how it should have been.
              3. RA77
                -1
                4 July 2013 18: 34
                Quote: Marek Rozny
                It's easy to come up with reasons to rise up. and if I write like this: “if not for the ancestors of the Kazakhs, the Russians would have been crushed by the Catholic military machine in the 13th century and completely destroyed as a separate nation”? A? Are you ready to start kissing the hands of the Kazakhs for saving them from the Vatican-Teutonic genocide? What's wrong with the argument? Same as yours.

                You yourself don’t understand that you wrote nonsense? We were at war. Cold War. And the nuclear attack option was not at all a fiction, unlike what you wrote. The United States had very specific plans for an attack on the USSR, indicating target cities for attack. Moreover, the peculiarity of such a collision is that it would happen in a matter of hours. And what happened BEFORE and what happened AFTER will be seen absolutely clearly. What you described, even if it is perceived as a possible option, is a long process, the final goals of which may well never be achieved. So you cannot say that in this example you saved us from someone.
      4. -1
        3 July 2013 23: 39
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        Many Kazakhs suffered from radiation due to nuclear explosions. Almost 500 bombs exploded - this is no joke.

        firstly, not bombs, secondly, not only Kazakhs, and thirdly, all this was too mythologized in the 80s and 90s
        1. Marek Rozny
          +1
          4 July 2013 06: 18
          Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
          firstly, not bombs, secondly, not only Kazakhs, and thirdly, all this was too mythologized in the 80s and 90s

          and in general these explosions were carried out by Jews. What’s wrong, tell the truth without fear. I won’t be surprised that you’ll go so far as to say that it was the Kazakhs themselves who asked to locate nuclear testing sites in order to escape from the Americans.
          already one eccentric said right away that if русские If they didn’t bomb the Kazakh steppe with atomic explosions every month, then the evil Americans would have done it. My soul felt lighter - Soviet radiation was actually more beneficial than American radiation. although I’m not sure that the Americans would have detonated as many charges in KZ as the Communist Party.
      5. Avenger711
        -3
        4 July 2013 01: 35
        Positive aspects: they pulled it out of feudalism and gave it a more or less civilized appearance. All the “colonies” should be silent, they ate at Russia’s expense, and if anything happens it’s the Russian’s fault. Okay, if you don’t want to go to civilization, you will really be a colony, no matter whose. The Tajiks have already appreciated it; now, in order not to die, you have to work for the Russians almost for food.

        As a result, by 1991, most Kazakhs did not speak their native language at all.
        Is this normal?


        It is not normal. It is not normal that for so many years all these “original cultures” were not crushed and instead of equal opportunities for everyone, “national personnel” were trained, and local kings sat at the head of the republics, although the central government, in theory, has every right to appoint anyone to these positions. They thought that the Chukchi could lead the Kazakh SSR, which means there would be a Chukchi. Or Tatar. Or Latvian. I don’t care, the main thing is that he is recognized as worthy.

        So don’t whine that you were oppressed, without the Russians you would still be living in yurts.
      6. Avenger711
        -2
        4 July 2013 01: 37
        Oh yes, the training ground. That is, how to eat at the expense of the entire Union is always welcome, but how to contribute something is just figs. Well, excuse me, there was no more suitable place in the USSR.
        1. Marek Rozny
          +1
          4 July 2013 04: 35
          Avenger, I wish you intelligence and logic. The rest, I hope you have everything.
          1. 0
            4 July 2013 08: 53
            He says correctly, I notice that many representatives of the republics judge the current situation from the point of view of their own bell tower, forgetting about the common country of the USSR...
      7. +1
        4 July 2013 08: 39
        On the other hand, when they support an indigenous nation, the result is nationalism and disintegration. Let's not forget that with all the tolerance of the Kazakhs, in 1986 (Zheltoksan y) - they shouted “down with the Russians”! If we take the nationalism of the Kazakhs, it is less developed like that of the Uzbeks, for example, but the further south you go, the more developed is rabid nationalism (like a white-eared fist among the Shymkent idiots!)
    3. 0
      4 July 2013 08: 34
      good afternoon

      everything is true about Russia, if it were a colonialist, the fate of the Kazakhs is the fate of the American Indians, Britain or France, unlike Russia/USSR, did not build enterprises, schools, universities. We still live off the Soviet legacy.

      Now about the Semipalatinsk training ground, there was no such thing here, but let’s locate it on the territory of Kazakhstan since there are many Kazakhs there, there was a principle of expediency - the most suitable area...
  59. -1
    3 July 2013 20: 56
    Quote: teodorh
    Basescu said in 2008 that if the Russian Federation tries to do in Moldova what it did in Georgia, Romania will be forced to intervene. This is not some expert, but the president of the country.


    Don't make me laugh!
  60. +3
    3 July 2013 21: 07
    [quote=IOwTZ][quote=teodorh]Basescu said in 2008 that if the Russian Federation tries to do in Moldova what it did in Georgia, then Romania will be forced to intervene. This is not some expert, but the president of the country.[/quote]
    In peacetime, he is repeatedly impeached... you can say that, knowing that he will never be the first to do what Georgia did... Which means blah blah...
  61. KononAV
    0
    3 July 2013 21: 39
    It will be funny to see how the Romanians try to fight with Russia and NATO will not help them
    1. 0
      3 July 2013 22: 54
      Quote: KononAV
      It will be funny to watch the Romanians try to fight with Russia

      When they send you to the front line, that’s where you’ll laugh!
      Quote: KononAV
      and NATO will not help them

      Why doesn’t it help?
  62. +1
    3 July 2013 22: 02
    So, where were they looking in the Kremlin, one wonders? Now it’s too late to declare Transnistria independent, because immediately war. The only option remains: to recognize Transnistria as part of the Russian Federation. And announce the deployment of tactical nuclear weapons there...
  63. +5
    3 July 2013 22: 19
    Ukrainian border guards told a joke...Romanian-Ukrainian border...Ukrainian and Romanian border guards are standing opposite each other...Between them a wolf lies in a trap...The Ukrainian border guard asks - when will you take your wolf? The Romanian looks perplexed and says - where did you get the idea that he is ours? Maybe yours? The Ukrainian says - no, yours... only yours... It’s obvious... The Romanian is perplexed - where is this visible? Yes, look...He bit off three of his own paws, but never got out of the trap. He's yours
    This is what their story will be like with Transnistria, Ukraine, Russia... like with these three paws...
    1. sumcream56
      -1
      4 July 2013 11: 16
      The joke is good, but in the International Court Romania sued Zmeiny Island from Ukraine.
    2. 0
      4 July 2013 11: 17
      Cool joke, on topic.
  64. Avenger711
    -4
    3 July 2013 22: 20
    Yes, a war wouldn’t hurt, all the problems would be solved at once and there would only be fewer corpses than in the case of sluggish firefights.
    1. +3
      3 July 2013 22: 52
      Quote: Avenger711
      Yes, a war game wouldn't hurt

      fool What stupidity!!!
      Quote: Avenger711
      all problems would be solved at once

      I wonder what problems you are talking about?!
  65. GEO
    GEO
    0
    3 July 2013 22: 51
    Quote: teodorh
    Quote: papss
    I live in Moldova


    The fundamental question is: do you live in Moldova or are you a Moldovan?

    People are still dying from the consequences of these explosions to this day.

    I did not propose to explode in Ryazan and Pskov, I asked why here, here and not there?

    Did we invent good colonialists? On the contrary, I say that all colonialists are equal, there are no good ones. Everyone is bad because they are colonialists.

    You know, they almost forced me to study Russian.

    Free! Go your own way, you and I are not on the same path. Just don’t come crawling around to lick our butts so that we can save you, the sheep, once again. How tired of you all...
    1. Marek Rozny
      0
      3 July 2013 23: 29
      Geo, when did Kazakhs lick Russian ass? And from whom and in what war did the Russians save the Kazakhs? From aliens in the Russian-Martian war near Karaganda?
      1. +1
        4 July 2013 08: 54
        Abulkhair Khan of the Junior Zhuz, for example, asked to be accepted into the Republic of Ingushetia
        1. 0
          4 July 2013 13: 43
          Quote: T80UM1
          Abulkhair Khan of the Junior Zhuz, for example, asked to be accepted into the Republic of Ingushetia
          Ygy. Where did Mazepa go, for example??)
          1. +1
            4 July 2013 13: 48
            And here Mazepa is not Kazakh. Moreover, Mazepa was eventually killed, and his request was leveled, while Abulkhair’s request was satisfied, although they were also killed, albeit their own...
            1. Marek Rozny
              0
              4 July 2013 15: 11
              Abulkhayir was never the khan of the entire Kazakh people. He was the khan of only one zhuz, as you know. But he really wanted to be the khan of all Kazakhs. Therefore, he openly wrote to the queen, saying, “help me become the khan of all Kazakhs, and I will become your subject.” He asked for Russian citizenship for his own selfish interests, and not in the interests of the Kazakhs. All his letters have been studied a hundred times.
              And the Kazakhs killed him precisely because he transferred the Kazakhs of the Junior Zhuz to Russian citizenship, without asking the people’s opinion. Which, by Kazakh standards, even the All-Kazakh Khan could not do. Military democracy after all. The khans were elected by the people through their proxies (biy batyrs, sultans), and the khan was obliged to make decisions only after consultation with representatives from the people. And here he staged an amateur performance. That's why they finished it off. There is no bazaar, unification with Russia gave us access to a large Russian market, where the Kazakhs could sell off the surplus of their gigantic herds and receive goods from European manufacturers. But before making such a decision, we still need to discuss all the nuances with the people. It was an absolute monarchy in Russia. And our last such monarch was Genghis Khan. All other khans had to listen to the establishment of the state, otherwise it would be an ax.
              1. +1
                4 July 2013 15: 22
                However, you admit that he was the one who officially submitted the petition? Let's then take the all-Kazakh Khan Ablai (the unified Aruak), he was given permission for the Khanate from St. Petersburg, right? Although he was assigned only to the secondary one, he was recognized by the rest of the zhuzs... The senior zhuz by that time was not part of the Republic of Ingushetia. And in general, representatives of the Junior Zhuz still believe that Abulkhair did the right thing to protect against the Dzungars - that’s democracy for you...
                1. Marek Rozny
                  0
                  5 July 2013 01: 45
                  Ablai was a general Kazakh khan without Russian participation. He was a leader, and as a result, the main people of all three zhuzes declared him khan. The Russian presence in the Kazakh steppe was not even noticeable under a microscope.
                  And we completely solved the Dzungarian problem without Russia’s help. And let me remind you that Russia supplied the Dzungars with firearms through the city of Kuznetsk. Even the TSB wrote openly about this. So, fellow countryman, don’t even start the topic “Russia saved the Kazakhs from the Dzungars.” There was no smell of Russian “roof” in our steppe. Even the Manchus invaded deep into the Kazakh steppe (after Ablai accepted Russian citizenship). Russia didn't even say anything against it. I'm not even talking about sending troops or weapons to the Kazakhs))) Abulkhayir asked for Russian citizenship in order to strengthen his personal power. Ablai - to conduct trade. Moreover, Ablai was also friends with the Qing Empire and supplied horses there. The Qing Empire still needs to be thanked for the fact that they played their role in the complete destruction of the Dzungar threat. And what did Russia do? Nothing. But no, no, someone starts “we saved you from China, we saved you from the Dzungars.” What a lifesaver! He helped his enemies, pushed them with weapons, and remained stupidly silent about the invasion of the Qing troops. So let's not make any hints in this direction. Moreover, it was not the Chinese who ultimately pestered the Kazakhs, but the Kazakhs constantly crossed the Chinese border to openly plunder there. And the Chinese could not do anything with the Kazakhs. And when Russian border officials appeared here in the 19th century, the Chinese constantly complained to them about the actions of the lawless Kazakhs. The Chinese (more precisely, the Manchus) were completely exhausted by the 18th and 19th centuries.
            2. +1
              4 July 2013 20: 13
              Quote: T80UM1
              What does Mazepa have to do with it?

              Moreover, by citing the example of Abulkhair, you are extending his decision to the entire Kazakh people.. Likewise, Mazepa cannot be used to judge the entire Ukrainian people..
              for the Khanate they issued him a permit from St. Petersburg, right? Although he was only assigned to secondary school, he was recognized by the rest of the zhuzes...
              Well done, you know history well... so, despite the fact that, as you write, he was “allowed” to be the khan of the Middle Zhuz - Ablai was an all-Kazakh khan... And he would have been, despite any “permissions”. And this “filka’s letter” only stated the existing state of affairs..
              Abulkhair did the right thing to protect against the Dzungars
              Here, an amendment, at the time Abulkhair took the oath, the Dzungar threat was virtually neutralized. This is the same as writing, for example, that the “second front” played a decisive role in WWII. fool
              1. 0
                5 July 2013 07: 27
                Once again I say when communicating with representatives of the junior zhuz, I am writing about Abulkhair’s decision and the assessment of correctness, until now the official version set out in our textbooks is not recognized as correct by their representatives. They consider Abulkhair a hero. The threat was neutralized at Anrakai, I know, but as a result of the infighting, this victory lost its significance.
                1. +1
                  5 July 2013 09: 31
                  Quote: T80UM1
                  Once again I say when communicating with representatives of the junior zhuz, I am writing about Abulkhair’s decision and assessing the correctness

                  I understand that they agree that Kazakhstan has become a colony of the Republic of Ingushetia?! No. Kazakhs believe that sooner or later Kazakhstan became part of Russia. The process would just be bloodier. And it would have entailed more casualties than “voluntary accession.” Therefore, it is perceived as the lesser of two evils.
                  They consider Abulkhair a hero
                  I’ll tell you, dear one, a little secret - he is the hero of the Kazakh people. For most Kazakhs.
                  As a result of the infighting, this victory lost its significance.
                  I'll explain in more detail. As a result of the infighting, the opportunity to finish off the Dzungars was lost. Those. The opportunity to finally resolve the “Dzungar issue” was lost. As a result, after Anrakai and subsequent infighting, a stalemate developed. When neither the Kazakhs nor the Dzungars could achieve final superiority in the war. To summarize: thus, the version widely disseminated by Russian propaganda that the Kazakhs accepted Russian citizenship, so that they would not be slaughtered by the Dzungars, is for the Kazakhs completely insolvent(except for the marginalized..)
    2. The comment was deleted.
  66. Octavian
    +2
    3 July 2013 23: 00
    I’m going to join the army soon and now I don’t know which army I’ll serve in what request
    1. 0
      4 July 2013 04: 44
      As one of the scenarios, perhaps Romania will absorb part of Moldova, I think Transnistria will not be included in this part. Regarding Romanianization. The Principality of Moldova was formed long before the formation of Romania, “Romania as a state arose in 1859 with the active assistance of England and France.” Toponym “Romania” was invented in the XNUMXth century by the Transylvanian German Martin Felmer. The Moldovans retained their national identity, language, culture and faith while being part of the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union. In the event of becoming part of Romania, with a high probability, much will be lost, including the Moldovan nationality. There is another scenario. Russia is now restoring its sovereignty, and perhaps there will be a reunification of the disintegrated country or part of it. How long will the Moldovan state last? Perhaps not for long. Another question will Moldovans have the opportunity to make a choice? If you live in Moldova, I think that you will serve in military service still in the Moldavian army.
      Lived in Moldova in Soroca 1984-1987.
      1. sumcream56
        -1
        4 July 2013 11: 13
        Quote: slaventi
        As one of the scenarios, perhaps Romania will absorb part of Moldova, I think Transnistria will not be included in this part. Regarding Romanianization. The Principality of Moldova was formed long before the formation of Romania, “Romania as a state arose in 1859 with the active assistance of England and France.” Toponym “Romania” was invented in the XNUMXth century by the Transylvanian German Martin Felmer. The Moldovans retained their national identity, language, culture and faith while being part of the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union. In the event of becoming part of Romania, with a high probability, much will be lost, including the Moldovan nationality. There is another scenario. Russia is now restoring its sovereignty, and perhaps there will be a reunification of the disintegrated country or part of it. How long will the Moldovan state last? Perhaps not for long. Another question will Moldovans have the opportunity to make a choice? If you live in Moldova, I think that you will serve in military service still in the Moldavian army.
        Lived in Moldova in Soroca 1984-1987.

        Dear, do not confuse the Romanian Principality of Moldova with Bessarabia. The capital of Moldova was the Romanian city of Iasi. Legally, Transnistria has no relation to the current Russian Federation. Until 1940, it was part of the Ukrainian SSR. Then Stalin made an exchange: he tore Northern Bukovina, Bessarabia and part of what is now the Odessa region from Romania in 1940. From the resulting territory, Northern Bukovina (now Chernivtsi region) and part of what is now the Odessa region were separated and annexed to Ukraine. And in return, Transnistria was annexed to Bessarabia. But it’s not clear why the hell Romania has even poorer brothers? And Transnistria? The industry there is all outdated. There are too many such obsolete factories in Romania itself.
      2. sumcream56
        -1
        4 July 2013 11: 18
        Dear! The Moldavian principality had its capital in the Romanian city of Iasi. Bessarabia was a small part of it.
        1. +1
          4 July 2013 16: 14
          And even earlier, hundreds of years before the creation of Romania, the capital of the Moldavian principality. There were the cities of Bahia, then Suceava. So Moldovans have the right to their national identification, much more than the Romanians. Iasi is mentioned long before the creation of Romania, the ideology of Romanianism was not developed in Moldova and Wallachia , and in the Austrian province of Transylvania, where the Wallachians lived in a subordinate position.

          The formation of the Transylvanian school of linguists, as Lucian Boia suggests, was not the work of the Vlachs themselves, but of Greek Catholic intellectuals educated in Vienna and Rome and obsessed with the idea of ​​the Latin origin of the Vlachs (although their direct descendants are not the Romans, but the Romanized Thracians and Slavs). The toponym “Romania” was invented in the 80th century by the Transylvanian German Martin Felmer. In the 1859s, Transylvanian linguists Gheorghe (György) Şinkai, Samuel Klein and others developed a grammar of the language they called Romanian, as well as other textbooks, which were printed in Latin script in Buda and Vienna. Moreover, which is typical, the matter of Latinization of Wallachian writing was taken over by the Catholic Church. Romania as a state arose in XNUMX with the active assistance of England and France, who intended to create a “natural barrier” on the way of the Russian army to Constantinople. Romania is a Western project.
  67. Grigorich 1962
    0
    3 July 2013 23: 05
    Things take a dangerous turn. How can one not remember General Lebed? Russia and Ukraine need to get their act together regarding Transnistria...otherwise it won’t be too late. NATO and Syria didn’t succeed...so now they want to play not the Turkish but the Romanian card...it’s dangerous. Remember the saying... "You are at the door and he is at the window"....
  68. shalk
    0
    4 July 2013 00: 02
    Quote: nycsson
    Quote: KononAV
    and NATO will not help them

    Why doesn’t it help?



    Because the regular army of Romania will not enter into direct combat with the Russian armed forces. You can, of course, scratch your tongues for fun.
  69. +2
    4 July 2013 00: 07
    One gets the feeling that Moscow is being “pulled” like in tennis, first in one direction and then in the other, deliberately shaking attention and important matters everywhere...
  70. -1
    4 July 2013 00: 24
    It’s a pity Swan isn’t on them, otherwise he would have sobered their heads in 24 hours soldier Eternal memory to the General!
  71. postman
    +1
    4 July 2013 04: 07
    "...Romania rejects any statement confirming the idea of ​​​​the existence of a Moldovan nation and a language different from Romanian." (Theodor Baconski, Minister of Foreign Affairs of Romania)

    “Nothing prevents us from recognizing that Moldovans are Romanians, and only their citizenship is Moldovan.” (unidentified Romanian)
    answer Viorel Mikhail
    "Nothing prevents us from saying that Romanians live in Moldova, but citizenship is this ethnic minority - Moldavian."

    Romania compared to Moldova in 1987 was a beggar. And had the lowest standard of living of all CMEA member countries (Eastern Europe).
    Today every Romanian owes Europe or the USA almost 4000 dollars.
    Moldavian - $1.
    ============================================!!!!
    It’s clear why Romania needs this (unification, absorption).
    BUT WHAT PENIS does Moldova and 3.5 million Moldovans need this for?
    1. +1
      4 July 2013 11: 12
      The Moldovans forgot the whistle of the Romanian whip!!!!!
      1. postman
        0
        4 July 2013 13: 23
        Quote: Nikolski1973
        The Moldovans forgot the whistle of the Romanian whip!!!!!

        and a blow from a stick.
        I don’t know if this is true, but I’ve read in the literature that Romanians treated Moldovans like cattle (both with sticks and in carts, harnessed and plowed, etc.)
        Why does Moldova need this again?
  72. The comment was deleted.
  73. -1
    4 July 2013 06: 41
    The Romanian "mommies" have finally gone crazy, and Moldova, where are you going - a herd of stupid sheep, lickers of the blue West and Uncle Sam.
  74. VkadimirEfimov1942
    +1
    4 July 2013 08: 24
    There are a lot of emotions, but you can’t give Transnistria to Moldova (and that means the Romanians). Romania is a poor country and wants to solve its problems at the expense of Moldova and Transnistria. At the same time, “Anglo-Saxon ears” are visible - secretly encouraging these actions (as Makarov correctly said: “... deliberately shaking attention and important matters everywhere...” Here are Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, and Syria) against Russia. On events B The whole of Europe, together with the United States, was very indignant about South Ossetia, and in the end they reconciled. Europe respects strength and we need to show it to them once again, and not discuss it.
  75. Kremlin
    0
    4 July 2013 08: 30
    Romania is not a strong army, but still there will be small losses in case of war...
  76. 0
    4 July 2013 13: 24
    Only the strength and tough policies of Russia will save Transnistria, so we sometimes need to knock the tolerant gayrope on the head so that they don’t forget who is the true master of the house
  77. sumcream56
    -4
    4 July 2013 13: 33
    By the way, missile defense systems from the United States will be deployed in Romania. Thus, Romania is not Georgia.
    And there is no need to blame the Romanians for anything. Quite a normal country. Under Ceausescu, they built planes, tanks, and cars and export oilfield equipment to the whole world. They still have a little bit of oil left. But the Bessarabians (to call them Moldovans is rudeness, just like the self-name of the Romanians - “Romans”!) are shabby Romanians. By and large, the Romanians don’t need horseradish. But the leadership of Romania, according to the name of their country, needs to pretend to be a great power, and their younger brothers, the mamalyzhniki, do not know how to portray themselves as an offended country in order to beg for something. It’s bad that because of purely political ambitions it can lead to bloodshed. Anecdote, old Soviet. The two people remaining on Earth: a Russian and an American, crawl out of the bunker and the American says: “Well, why the hell were you the first to launch rockets?” The Russian replies: “Yes, we celebrated March 8th by chance. And then an annoying fly woke up and sat on the button. And bam!”
  78. Sashko07
    0
    4 July 2013 13: 55
    let Ukraine turn off their fucking electricity, and the conflict will resolve itself laughing
  79. +2
    4 July 2013 14: 35
    hi Who can tell me what the distance is from the Russian border to the PMR? Or maybe they could just pull up the Iskanders? And Ukraine will have to watch group flights of UFOs at a speed of 2100 m/s.
    1. 0
      4 July 2013 14: 42
      from tomani ~550? from the Russian Ukrainian border is about the same (this is to the border of Transnistria)
      In general, the question is strange, open Google or Yandex maps and you will see all the sizes
  80. Zopuhhh
    0
    4 July 2013 15: 48
    Quote: sumcream56
    It is best to return to the borders of 1939. Transnistria - Ukraine.

    And who cares about Crimea?
  81. True
    -2
    4 July 2013 19: 55
    To the borders of 1939? Please. Then Tuva, independence please, and Japan, Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands.

    According to the subject. It's high time to bomb the Moldovan brothers into the Stone Age.
  82. 0
    7 July 2013 01: 03
    If I were the president, in this regard I would say that if even one Russian citizen suffers, much less dies, the response will be terrible for the aggressor and he will be destroyed by all types of weapons we have
  83. sumcream56
    -1
    8 July 2013 11: 59
    Quote: Zopuhhh
    Quote: sumcream56
    It is best to return to the borders of 1939. Transnistria - Ukraine.

    And who cares about Crimea?

    In Crimea, organize a referendum and unite it with the Republic of Tatarstan. And in the Chernivtsi region you can organize a referendum. The majority may vote to return to Romania. 45% are Moldovans, that is, Romanians. And the Hutsuls are all working. Romania is a member of NATO and the European Union. So the migrant workers will have more trouble. The situation needs to be resolved amicably.
  84. +1
    9 July 2013 12: 39
    Quote: RA77
    If we had not tested atomic and hydrogen bombs at the test sites of Kazakhstan (where, in a rush to get the Amers, we all screwed up, yes), you, like us, would now either be a colony of the Anglo-Saxons and would not have complete control over our natural resources, or burned out after the Amers’ nuclear strike wasteland.

    Japan (a country that lost the war and lay in ruins) and South Korea, after the civil war, became advanced economies with the help of the states. Kazakhstan, on whose territory the war was not fought, under your wise leadership, half of the indigenous population was missing and generally ended up in hell. And we still owe you something for this? I am not an enemy of Russia and not a fan of the United States, but God knows how annoying you are with your claims to gratitude! When will you finally learn at least your own history, which is currently being replaced by great-power tales invented by stupid and smug rednecks like Vasilenko or Smoke!? By the way, how about gratitude to the Germans? Weren't they the ones who brought progress to Russia under Peter 1?
  85. Johnniesi
    0
    29 May 2014 13: 49
    Great alert

    I’m already running, I need to remember to write down this news.