Military Review

Operation "Cottage" - the most curious American failure in history

81
Operation Cottage is the code name for a US Army operation aimed at liberating Kyska Island from the Japanese during the Pacific Campaign during World War II. The operation ran from 15 to 24 in August 1943 of the year. Capturing Kyska Island is a truly unique experience. stories wars when the Japanese army suffered no casualties, and the Americans lost more than 300 people killed and wounded. One destroyer was also damaged, having blown up on a mine. In fact, this operation entirely consisted of "friendly fire", and the American army valiantly liberated the island, which was not a single Japanese.


Kyska Island is one of the small islands belonging to the Aleutian Ridge. The island is about 35 kilometers in length, and its width in different parts varies from 2,5 to 10 kilometers. The area of ​​the island is 277,7 km2. The highest point of the island is Kyska volcano, the last eruption of which took place in 1964 year. There is no resident population on this island. The island was discovered in the XVIII century - October 25 1741 of the year. In the 1867 year after the sale of Alaska to the United States, Kyska Island came under their jurisdiction.

During World War II, the island was captured by the Japanese, this happened in the summer of 1942, when Japanese marines landed on the island and destroyed the US Navy meteorological station located here. Later on, an impressive garrison of Japanese troops was stationed on the island, which, according to the information of American intelligence services, numbered up to 10 thousand people. However, the seizure of these islands did not bring Japan special dividends.

Operation "Cottage" - the most curious American failure in history

At the first landings on the islands of Atta and Kyska, the Japanese brought ashore military units and special working detachments of up to 1200 men on each of the islands. Later, additional units and personnel for the communications and air defense services, as well as for the submarine base were transferred here, the total number of the garrison on Attu Island was brought to 2500 people, and on Kyska Island - 5400 people.

For almost a whole year after the Japanese captured these two Aleutian islands, the actions of the allies in this region were limited only by insignificant disturbing raids aviation and patrolling submarines, which aimed to isolate the enemy-occupied islands. In August 1942, a detachment of American cruisers and destroyers attacked the occupied island of Kyska from the sea. Within a few months thereafter, harassing air raids on the captured islands were carried out by US and Canadian army aircraft.

In the winter of 1942-1943, American troops occupied the islands of Adak and Amchitka, on which airfields were built in a short time for fighter jets, which began to provide cover for the bombers in their ever-increasing raids on the islands. Soon, thanks to the activity of Allied aviation, the island of Kyska was almost completely cut off from the islands directly by Japan. By isolating the enemy troops, the Allied forces in the northern part of the Pacific Ocean practically solved their main task. Several thousand Japanese soldiers experiencing supply problems (food and ammunition were delivered only by submarines), in the snow of the Aleutian Islands could hardly have any significant influence on the course of the entire war. But public opinion in the United States did not want to put up with the fact that part of America was occupied by Japanese troops, although this part was not of great value.


In addition, the committee of chiefs of staff planned to clear the Aleutian Islands from the Japanese in order to organize the supply of combat aircraft to Siberia if the USSR ever came out against Japan. In January, 1943, commanded by US forces in the Aleutian Islands, was assumed by Rear Admiral Kincaid. Returning the islands seized by the Japanese, he considered his main task and advocated an early attack on the island of Kyska. However, realizing that within a few months he would not be able to accumulate a sufficient number of troops and funds for this operation, he decided to concentrate on taking the island of Attu.

But the easy walk did not work, the operation to seize Attu Island began on May 11, while the fighting on the island continued for 3 weeks and ended only on 30 May 1943 of the year. The battle for the island turned out to be quite bloody, the American troops lost 579 people killed and 1148 more wounded, and almost 2100 people fell to non-combat losses, mainly due to frostbite. Japanese losses amounted to about 2900 people, only 28 soldiers were taken prisoner, among whom there were not a single officer.

After the seizure of the island of Attu, the capture of Kyski was to put an end to the entire Aleutian campaign and the American military, taking into account the bloody battle for Atta, planned to attract much more forces and assets. In the Addak Island area, a grouping of troops from more than 100 ships was concentrated, and the landing force had to make up 29 000 American soldiers and 5500 Canadian. In this case, the troops received advanced arctic equipment. In addition, since the end of July 1943, the island of Kyska was subjected to constant airstrikes and shelling of ship artillery. 13 August 1943, a training landing on Adak Island was carried out, and the operation to liberate Kyski was to begin on August 15.


As a result, in the early morning of August 15, the first small group of American infantry landed on the west coast of the island, and Canadian units landed 16 in August just to the north. Nobody interfered with the landing on the island, but this did not surprise the veterans of the Battle of Attu. The Americans hoped that, only having advanced deep into the island, they would face organized resistance from the Japanese forces, which were entrenched at the commanding heights.

However, the enemy did not show himself. Finally, at the end of the second day of the operation, when American intelligence reached Gertrude Bay - the location of the main Japanese facilities - it became obvious that there were no Japanese troops on the island. The trap was ready and slammed, but the enemy fled. No battles for the island followed, one of the greatest surprises in the history of wars occurred, and the only combat casualties of the paratroopers were associated with "friendly fire". 24 August 1943, the commander of the land landing forces, General Charles Korlett, stated that Kyska Island was back under US control.

As we found out later, the Japanese command, realizing the impossibility of defending an island that was almost isolated from the outside world, decided to evacuate its garrison. On July 29, the Japanese unit as part of the 2's cruisers and 10 destroyers under the cover of dense fog successfully made a swift march into the harbor of Kyska Island. Clinging to the northern shores of the island, the connection at high speed made the transition and in 14: 45 anchored. Within 45 minutes, the Japanese ships took on board the entire garrison of the island - more than 5100 people and left Kysk in the same way as they arrived on the island. The island’s garrison was evacuated to Paramushir. On the way back, the Japanese cruiser Abukuma was spotted off the northwestern coast of the island by an American submarine. This was the only contact between the troops of the two sides. At the same time, patrols of American submarines at this time went to the bases to replenish fuel supplies, and it was impossible to carry out air searches due to thick fog.


This is hard to believe, but the capture of the island left by the Japanese soldiers turned out to be quite impressive losses for the allies. During the survey of the island (a large number of underground tunnels were found on it), American and Canadian soldiers lost 31 people killed and about 50 wounded, mainly due to "friendly fire". In addition, 130 soldiers earned frostbite, and when approaching the island, the destroyer Abner Reed was blown up on a Japanese mine, 71 people died on board the destroyer, and 47 sailors were injured. In terms of the loss ratio, the "defense" of Kyski Island was the best operation of the Japanese armed forces in the Pacific theater of military operations.

Information sources:
-http: //www.mywebs.su/blog/history/5716.html
-http: //wordweb.ru/seawar/107.htm
-http: //gusev-av.livejournal.com/62025.html
-http: //ru.wikipedia.org
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  1. Denis
    Denis 2 July 2013 08: 02 New
    26
    Their historians are so modestly silent about this, the winners ... eve
    1. Basileus
      Basileus 2 July 2013 09: 59 New
      +8
      In my opinion, this is a fairly well-known story. At least on our internet.
  2. The comment was deleted.
  3. rassom
    rassom 2 July 2013 08: 18 New
    10
    as Americans say: "shit happens" (shit happens)
    1. Denis
      Denis 2 July 2013 09: 11 New
      +1
      Quote: rassom
      as Americans say: "shit happens" (shit happens)
      I will say differently Americans happen - Americans happen although what is the difference?

      Google translated the benefit!
  4. Sashkessss
    Sashkessss 2 July 2013 08: 50 New
    10
    Crap - and the game on this occasion do not want to create. But as Normandy PR ... As if there the fate of the whole world in that operation was
    1. Dovmont
      Dovmont 2 July 2013 11: 36 New
      +6
      Well, during the landing in Normandy, they also laid a lot of friendly fires on their own, and Canadians, and the Britons
    2. d_trader
      d_trader 2 July 2013 22: 07 New
      0
      Unlike in real life, a computer game will not work, there is no one to shoot at)))
  5. Dima190579
    Dima190579 2 July 2013 09: 03 New
    +6
    Intelligence did not work well. What else can you say.
  6. Iraclius
    Iraclius 2 July 2013 09: 29 New
    10
    In fact, in a strategic sense, the Japanese crawled. The occupation of the Aleutian Islands was carried out as part of the Midway-Aleutian operation and aimed to divert part of the US forces from the direction of the main attack. After the defeat at Midway, all actions on the Aleutians lost all meaning. Losses during the defense of Kyski were completely in vain, time and effort were spent on sending caravans from the Kuril Islands.
    The evacuation of forces should have begun immediately after Midway.
    Another notable moment of the operation was the battle at the Commander Islands - one of the few purely artillery naval battles of the war, in which the Americans were again beaten. And this despite the fact that the Japanese cruiser Nati for some time turned out to be jammed guns in the towers due to a malfunction. From the complete defeat of the American compound, it was only saved that the Japanese were frightened of the proximity of American bases and their aircraft and turned away. Again, the indecision of the Japanese affected ... request
    The article is curious, thanks to the author. good
  7. Dr. Ido
    Dr. Ido 2 July 2013 09: 58 New
    +1
    Power amers screwed up. But what about their vaunted intelligence?
  8. VOLCHOXURAL
    VOLCHOXURAL 2 July 2013 10: 00 New
    +1
    Quote: Denis
    Their historians are so modestly silent about this, the winners ... eve
    Yes, I roll over them! laughing These warriors ..evs need to be reminded of this as much as possible, more often, so, we can not really "dukhar" will be! wassat
    1. Denis
      Denis 2 July 2013 11: 05 New
      +1
      Quote: VOLCHONOKSURALA
      These warriors ..evs need to be reminded of this as much as possible, more often, so, we can not really "dukhar" will be!
      As long as they are getting stupid, but rather fooling around
      We landed in Europe because we knew that Nazism would not win without us
      This Canadian grunted about 1944
  9. KG_patriot_last
    KG_patriot_last 2 July 2013 10: 06 New
    +3
    Recognizing a friend or foe is very important in war.
  10. Beck
    Beck 2 July 2013 10: 08 New
    -14
    Okay, post-war contradictions, but now what’s up ... howl, about the ally’s failure in 2MB. Name the scoffers at least one army in history that from time to time would not fail. For those times, it would be better if the United States did not supply us with raw materials, weapons, industrial and food products through a land lens. Or would it be better if the United States did not land its troops in Italy and France?

    I foresee the peppy voice of the terrier, which would be better. I agree that they would have won, but the price was incomparably more expensive. Not 20 millions, but 40 or more. And this means that a significant part of us today would not have been born at all.
    1. Alew
      Alew 2 July 2013 10: 35 New
      17
      Quote: Beck


      I foresee the peppy voice of the terrier, which would be better. I agree that they would have won, but the price was incomparably more expensive.

      I am not a scammer but I will answer you. At the end of the 80x between the USA and the USSR, telebridges were held with people invited to the studio. The Soviet side was asked the question - why do most American youth think. What during the 2 World War did the USSR and Germany fight against the USA? The answer was voiced - This is the merit of your US propaganda. As for 20 millions. then you can write. that without Lend-Lease, the price would be 100 millions or even more. it is in your style.
      1. fartfraer
        fartfraer 2 July 2013 10: 48 New
        16
        about 20 million losses, the figure is clearly not about the losses of the Red Army, because according to the archives, the losses of the army were 8.6 million people.
        Well, the Germans burned villages in Belarus despite a land lease.
      2. Beck
        Beck 2 July 2013 18: 49 New
        -7
        Quote: ALEW
        The Soviet side was asked the question - why do most American youth think. What during the 2 World War did the USSR and Germany fight against the USA? The answer was voiced - This is the merit of your US propaganda. As for 20 millions. then you can write. that without Lend-Lease, the price would be 100 millions or even more. it is in your style.


        20 millions I take as an average. Nobody knows the exact numbers. There are big numbers, there are smaller ones. Stunned in any country is enough. And in Russia and the USA they are not the majority. During an emergency, I knew a soldier who could not show Moscow marked with a big star on the political map of the USSR. And that I had to think that most Soviet people are like that.

        Quote: fartfraer
        about 20 million losses, the figure is clearly not about the losses of the Red Army, because according to the archives, the losses of the army were 8.6 million people.


        What difference does the army die in battle, whether civilians from policemen and starvation. These are all our losses.

        Quote: viktorR
        Threat for Lendlis we paid in gold,


        Absolutely not paid. Payment was only the first installment in 1941.

        Quote: Sea Snake
        First of all, because already during the war - as part of the so-called “reverse Lend-Lease” - Washington received the necessary raw materials with a total value of almost 20% of the transferred materials and weapons. In particular, 32 thousand tons of manganese and 300 thousand tons of chrome ore were shipped from the USSR to the States, the value of which in the military industry was extremely great.


        Total Lend-Lease deliveries amounted to about $ 50,1 billion (equivalent to approximately $ 610 billion in 2008 prices of the year), of which $ 31,4 billion was delivered to the UK, $ 11,3 billion - in the USSR, $ 3,2 billion to France and $ 1,6 billion to China. The reverse Lend-Lease (allied supplies to the USA) amounted to $ 7,8 billion, of which $ 6,8 billion fell to the UK and Commonwealth countries

        The sending of American and British military equipment of the USSR led to the need to supply it with hundreds of thousands of tons of aviation fuel, millions of shells for guns and tens of millions of cartridges for submachine guns and machine guns (different from the calibres of weapons used in the USSR), spare tracks for tanks, spare automobile tires , spare parts for tanks, aircraft and cars. Already from 1943, when the leadership of the allies ceased to doubt the USSR’s ability for a long-term war, the USSR began to import mainly strategic materials (aluminum, etc.) and machines for Soviet industry.

        I will add manganese and chromium, they returned to the USSR with tank armor, aircraft engines, machine tools. And why did you have to give up all this in 41-43? And now turn up your nose, they say we ourselves with a mustache. Stalin worried about each, during the undelivered, "Harikane". Kozhedub became a hero four times smashing the enemy on the "Aircobra". And don't give a damn about all this?
        1. fartfraer
          fartfraer 2 July 2013 19: 32 New
          +1
          "What's the difference whether the army died in the battles, whether civilians from policemen and hunger. These are all our losses." - I do not argue with you, I just clarified that these are not only army losses, because. some bastards (I'm not talking about you) firmly believe that when they talk about 20 million losses they mean only the Red Army.
        2. albert
          albert 2 July 2013 21: 21 New
          +6
          Quote: Beck
          Kozhedub became four times a hero smashing the enemy on the "Aircobra"

          Kozhedub flew La-5 and La-7. Pokryshkin flew on the Aircobra, but he also switched to Lavochkin at the end of the war.
        3. Alew
          Alew 3 July 2013 11: 35 New
          +2
          Quote: Beck
          During an emergency, I knew a soldier who could not show Moscow marked with a big star on the political map of the USSR. And that I had to think that most Soviet people are

          Yes, you have George W. Bush no better. And what did we have to think that most American people are ???
        4. i.xxx-1971
          i.xxx-1971 15 July 2013 19: 34 New
          +1
          Kozhedub fought the whole war on domestic aircraft. Pokryshkin fought on aerial cobra.
        5. Bratkov Oleg
          Bratkov Oleg 7 November 2019 15: 14 New
          0
          You are lying about Kozhedub, he never flew on Cobras, only on Soviet La planes. This is another example of American lies. And aid under Lend-Lease was at the level of 5-10 percent, it really saved a lot of lives. But this is most likely a wise move by Stalin, to get a little help and like to break Germany together, and for this the United States could not immediately unleash a war against the USSR, battered in battles with Germany and other Europe. You know that the USSR not only fought against Germany, the French, the Romanians, and the Austrians came for the Russian land, 200 thousand Czechs were buried near Voronezh ... And although the USSR defeated Japan in a couple of weeks, the war against England and the USA was would be difficult. How much time passed, how many decades, until the people of the United States learned the whole truth that the United States fought and won the war against the USSR and Germany ... And they will defeat anyone. And then there were many veterans who would immediately tell the "wrong" truth ...
          There is still nonsense about the fact that the Lendliz equipment had to be supplied with fuel, cartridges ... You would first have calculated how many caravans passed along the northern route, and where you can put all your hundreds of thousands of tons into their tonnage.
    2. viktorR
      viktorR 2 July 2013 11: 03 New
      19
      And here is lendlis, do you want to pity us, so that we would keep Americans as friends again? Enough of their friendship with us. For us it is better to compete with them than to be friends. And in the article, mine the talents of military leaders and intelligence in a specific operation are discussed.

      Threat for Lendlis we paid in gold, it was not a gift as you constantly position it, and the Anglo-Saxons helped us, only by the fact that they realized that Hitler was out of their control. I’m silent about the second front.
      1. Sea snake
        Sea snake 2 July 2013 13: 42 New
        14
        Quote: viktorR
        And here is lendlis, do you want to pity us, so that we would keep Americans as friends again? .................
        Threat for Lendlis we paid in gold, it was not a gift as you constantly position it, and the Anglo-Saxons helped us, only by the fact that they realized that Hitler was out of their control.

        Totally agree!
        -----------------------------------
        The generally accepted version that the US lending aid was almost charitable does not stand up to scrutiny upon closer examination. First of all, because already during the war - as part of the so-called “reverse Lend-Lease” - Washington received the necessary raw materials with a total value of almost 20% of the transferred materials and weapons. In particular, 32 thousand tons of manganese and 300 thousand tons of chrome ore were shipped from the USSR to the States, the value of which in the military industry was extremely great. It’s enough to remember that when the Germans, having retreated from Ukraine, lost their Nikopol manganese, the 150-mm frontal armor of their “royal tigers” began to hold shells worse than the similar 100-mm armor plate of previously produced ordinary “tigers”.

        In addition, we paid for allied supplies in gold. And in considerable quantities. On one British cruiser "Edinburgh", which the slobs of the British allowed the Germans to drown, there were 5,5 tons of gold. A lot of our allies also benefited from platinum, valuable wood, furs, and also their beloved red fish and black caviar. Finally, a significant part of the weapons and military equipment, as expected under the agreement, the Soviet Union returned after the war. Having received in exchange an invoice for a round sum of 1300 million bucks. Against the backdrop of the cancellation of Lendlizovskie debts to other blessed powers, this looked like an outright robbery, and Stalin demanded that the debt be recounted normally. Subsequently, the Americans were forced to admit that they lied. However, they wrapped interest on the total amount. The mutually recognized amount, taking into account these percentages, according to the Washington agreement 1972 of the year, amounted to 722 million dollars. Of these, 48 millions were paid under Brezhnev, and the rest, according to an additional agreement between Gorbachev and Bush Sr., Moscow should be returned before 2030. Therefore, all current talk about American charity looks rather stupid, especially against the background of quite sober statements by the Americans themselves.

        So, the US Secretary of Commerce Jones, who, based on his position, knew the problem thoroughly, admitted that "by deliveries from the USSR we not only returned our money, but also made a profit." “Helping Russians is well spent money,” President Roosevelt echoed. And the future owner of the White House, Truman, announced on the pages of the New York Times as early as 24 of June 1941: “If we see that Germany is winning, we must help Russia, and if Russia will prevail, we must help Germany, and may they kill each other as much as possible. ”
      2. djon77
        djon77 2 July 2013 19: 07 New
        -6
        I was taught by a cousin as a child. He was older than me. Let him, but don’t stoop to his level. Suppose the Americans were bad, that they transmitted equipment, etc., although they weren’t obliged. But what kind of esteemed are you trying to look even worse? There is one Roman proverb. It’s better to keep silent wisely. Just for gold or for free, but it was good in the case of the USSR, and as you know for good deeds, they don’t gouge out the eyes. It’s simple and clear that there are such concepts as human qualities. So the captain in you I do not see them. this is my personal opinion and based on your writing
    3. Denis
      Denis 2 July 2013 11: 12 New
      20
      Quote: Beck
      ally in 2MB.
      A friend is not a friend, but a crap in a hat (C)
      How do you like that?
      First of all, it is worth noting that the Soviet cargo ship "Peacock Vinogradov" and 33 of a member of his team killed 22 on April 1944 of the year off the coast of Alaska as a result of an internal explosion in the hold of a ship carrying such explosive cargo like acetone in barrels. The reason for the death of the other five listed vessels of the Far Eastern Shipping Company, as well as the fishing seiner No. 20, was indeed the actions of submarines, but not Japanese or "unknown", but ... American.

      Here is a brief summary of the fate of 6 — these vessels and their crew members and passengers:

      cargo steamer "Angarstroy" (4761 brt.) - 1 sunk on May 1942. in the East China Sea, two torpedoes by the American submarine SS-210 "Grenadir";
      cargo ships "Kola" (4997 brt.) and Ilmen (4200 brt.) - 17 February sunk 1943 in the Pacific Ocean south of Shikoku, each with two torpedoes of the American submarine SS-276 "Sofish". 60 people of a team from 64 and all 9 passengers died on the "Kolya"; on the Ilmen 7 members of a team from 42 died;
      fishing seiner №20 (362 t.) - 9 July 1943 sank in the Sea of ​​Japan near Rebun Island with artillery fire by the American submarine SS-178 Permit, a crew member was killed;
      cargo ship "Belarus" (4120 brt.) - 3 was sunk in March 1944 in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, west of Iturup island by the American submarine SS-381 Sandlands, 48 from 50 crew members died;
      cargo ship Ob (3299 brt.) - 5 was sunk on July 1944 in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk off the west coast of Kamchatka by the American SS281 submarine Sunfish, 14 from 40 team members were killed;
      cargo ship "Transbalt" (11439 brt.) - 13 was sunk on June 1945 in the Sea of ​​Japan northwest of the La Perouse Strait by two torpedoes Spadefish, an American submarine, 411 from 5 team members and trainees.

      Total in the period 1941-1945. The victims of American submarines in the Pacific became 6 Soviet vessels total tonnage 28644 brt. At the same time, 128 who were on their sides at the time of the sinking of Soviet citizens, including 21 woman and 3 children, died.

      It is worth noting that during the same period, the Far Eastern Shipping Company suffered losses from the actions of the Japanese armed forces (aircraft and artillery), but during the entire war in the Pacific, the submarines of the Japanese Imperial Fleet did not sink a single Soviet vessel.
      The American submariners operated in the Pacific under their famous motto “Down them all!”, Often without concern for the courts of their allies, nor for the salvation of their teams ...
      They are modestly silent about this
      And who are they after that?
      Material from our website http://topwar.ru/12923-amerikanskaya-druzheskaya-pomosch.html
      The vileness is that they want to steal, or rather hide overall victory
    4. Dovmont
      Dovmont 2 July 2013 11: 39 New
      +8
      Oh, lord for allies offended! And the fact that they rewrote the history of the whole WWII for themselves doesn’t hurt you?
      1. paunch
        paunch 2 July 2013 13: 07 New
        +4
        and we are not them. we are better. I don’t want to be compared with them. do not. and you don’t have to act like the USA either.
      2. Denis
        Denis 2 July 2013 17: 41 New
        +1
        Quote: Dovmont
        Oh, lord for allies offended!
        It’s also a fact about which they completely accidentally forget.Before the war, the Fuhrer of Ford awarded
        Obviously not something indecent, and certainly not just
    5. Dr. Ido
      Dr. Ido 2 July 2013 12: 16 New
      +5
      Well, about 40 million. That's ...
      And so yes, it would be better if the United States, instead of lend-lease, stood shoulder to shoulder with the USSR. That would be great. But in fact, we have on the one hand lend-lease, and on the other hand, financial support from German tycoons. Like "an intelligent calf sucks two queens."
      1. djon77
        djon77 2 July 2013 19: 11 New
        -5
        and they were shoulder to shoulder. Or recall the German agreement with Japan 1937 of the year? Do not fight the United States in the Pacific Ocean with the Japanese. It is unknown how it would end
      2. ded10041948
        ded10041948 2 July 2013 22: 58 New
        +1
        In addition, our ore through third countries fell into Germany! Is that charity lendlis too?
    6. Andrew-001
      Andrew-001 2 July 2013 15: 16 New
      12
      Beck, I will try to explain to you what you 9 in my opinion) are wrong:
      - In fact, it would be better if the Americans did not land their troops in Europe. They did it too late - we have already moved the main part of the war ourselves.
      - The main losses we already had behind us. And by the way, the figure you called in 20 million is a figure that includes almost 13 million of Soviet civilians killed by Nazi invaders. The remaining 7 million includes, even if a few, but deliberately killed by your compatriots, our military personnel.
      - if there hadn’t been an Amer landing, there would have been no Amer bases in Europe after the war. Europe would be PEACEFUL - it would be easier for European countries.
      And finally, my purely opinion is that it will become easier for the whole world without your staff.
      1. KG_patriot_last
        KG_patriot_last 2 July 2013 15: 46 New
        +7
        Andrew-001
        absolutely agree. The United States, seeing that the USSR was already entering European lands, hastened from the other end. They didn’t attack the aggressor Germany already, but actually began to intervene in Europe, trying to cover the largest possible piece.
        And they allocated hundreds of loans to restore the impoverished Europe, as a result, this gave them the vassal of Europe for a hundred years in advance ... There were Lendlis from the same opera.
      2. djon77
        djon77 2 July 2013 19: 15 New
        -6
        by the way, the landing in Normandy was not the only one. before that there was a landing in Italy in 1943 and in Greece I don’t remember which one. you blame the Americans for rewriting the story. I won’t argue. but in my opinion you’re doing the same. one writer science fiction wrote about how a scientist locked a monkey in a room and decided to look through the keyhole what the monkey is doing. and when he glanced, he saw that the monkey was already watching, but what did the man do
        1. Andrew-001
          Andrew-001 3 July 2013 16: 42 New
          +1
          Quote: djon77
          landing in Italy in the 1943 year and in Greece

          It was such, I do not argue. Just think - why was this landing and why at that time, and not for example in 1941 or 42.
          The answer is simple - in 1943 - the Soviet army has ALREADY inflicted serious defeats on Germany and its satellites and prepared to go to RELEASE Europe. Here the minke whales began to stir. As for Greece, it is the British landing, and Britain has long coveted itself into the Balkans. And then the USSR took over the Germans, Austrians, Romanians, Hungarians, Bulgarians, Croats, Czechs - all the local fascists were distracted. So the Englishwoman took the opportunity. "An Englishwoman always shits" (c) - it was said long ago and not by us hi
          1. djon77
            djon77 3 July 2013 23: 23 New
            -1
            and in 43 it was only because the United States waged its war in the Pacific and in Africa. And to raise funds for the landing, it took time. And this must be understood. In any case, the landing in Normandy is something unprecedented. after no one did this. here claims to the usa, why in 44. and I can ask a question, why the USSR did not defeat Germany in a year? You need to be objective and not mess up the site. And do not present the story as it is profitable at the present time or beneficial to individuals
    7. Scoun
      Scoun 2 July 2013 17: 58 New
      +7
      Quote: Beck
      Or would it be better if the United States did not land its troops in Italy and France?

      I foresee the peppy voice of the Urashnik, which would be better. I agree that we would have won, but the price was incomparably more expensive. Not 20 millions, but 40 or more.

      The Soviet Union essentially fought against almost all of Europe (as it was in the 1812 year) and broke the ridge of the Nazis .. yes the losses would have been greater but not on such a scale as you write ..
      and if the USA didn’t appear in Europe .. I think the whole world would have lived calmer and less people would have died in other parts of the globe .. the fact that our France and Italy would have been cleaned up quickly I have no doubt .. our army grinded the most experienced troops by then Wehrmacht .. the rest compared to her toothless puppies ... and the most experienced at that time were our troops (there will be time to read and the video is how our operation against Japan was prepared)
      PS
      about 20 millions you didn’t write correctly because the order of 13 millions is civilians killed by Europeans ...
      and the military losses of Europe and the USSR are comparable, and some people with a vigorous voice say that we fought only with Germany ... and forget about the French, Italians, Hungarians and other others ... groves ...
    8. d_trader
      d_trader 2 July 2013 22: 12 New
      +1
      The losses of the Red Army are comparable to the losses of the Wehrmacht, the rest of the civilian population. Often, liberalists forget about it when they ring that we have driven people like meat into battle. this time. and two thereby cover up the atrocities of the Germans and their sloths at that time.
  11. Unknown
    Unknown 2 July 2013 10: 23 New
    +5
    For 50 years, the United States has been laying down with military operations, so much so that without losing the enemy they manage to lose their own. am
  12. SPIRITofFREEDOM
    SPIRITofFREEDOM 2 July 2013 11: 30 New
    +6
    Urgently need to make a computer game
    Medal of honor Operation Cottage - there you will have to run around the island and lay down amers with different weapons!
  13. Fibrizio
    Fibrizio 2 July 2013 12: 32 New
    +2
    Interestingly, the Japanese thought of mining all their tunnels? And if not, then the Vietnamese would have taught them. Those would not have left everything so easily. And more than a hundred corpses from "surprises" would certainly remain on the island
  14. velikoros-xnumx
    velikoros-xnumx 2 July 2013 12: 35 New
    +1
    Quote: rassom
    as Americans say: "shit happens" (shit happens)

    Too often they have this, I would even say systematically, they are probably imperceptibly sick with diarrhea. Take the "elite" special group "Delta" though. Why I can't understand the elite - almost no success, only failures, or, for example, the landing in Grenada. There are a lot of such examples.
    1. Santa Fe
      Santa Fe 2 July 2013 12: 50 New
      -9
      Quote: velikoros-xnumx
      Take the "elite" special group "Delta" though. Why I can't understand the elite - practically not a single success, only failures

      Elite special group "Alpha" - almost no success, only failures:
      The liberation of the theater on Dubrovka - 100 + dead hostages
      The liberation of the school in Beslan - 300 + dead hostages

      Everyone has their own heroes, victories and failures. Landing on Kysku is certainly a terrible mess, but the Amers have many other successful operations
      1. ded10041948
        ded10041948 2 July 2013 23: 08 New
        +3
        "Alpha" in Soviet times: no failures! Dubrovka, Beslan, Budenovsk are the result of the leadership of the military operations of special forces by deputies of different levels and local "princelings"
        1. Misantrop
          Misantrop 2 July 2013 23: 28 New
          0
          Quote: ded10041948
          Dubrovka, Beslan, Budenovsk - this is the result of the leadership of the combat operations of special forces by deputies of different levels and local "princelings"

          Not leadership, most often led by normal specialists. But a direct drain of information to the opposing side - it was
        2. Santa Fe
          Santa Fe 3 July 2013 11: 34 New
          0
          Quote: ded10041948
          "Alpha" in Soviet times: no failures!

          What is true is true.

          In the USSR, there have never been terrorist attacks of this magnitude at all - Basmachi from Sr. Asia was killed in the 20s, all the psychos were shut down, the inhabitants of Grozny were proud: "everyone here speaks Russian, like in Leningrad"
      2. Shadowcat
        Shadowcat 2 July 2013 23: 35 New
        +1
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Elite special group "Alpha" - almost no success, only failures: Liberation of the theater on Dubrovka - 100+ dead hostages Liberation of a school in Beslan - 300+ dead hostages

        I would very much like you to be among those whom these People sacrificing themselves and even covering up with their bodies freed, and after that you would think about such a whistle.
        Or just went to Beslan and blurted it out. I recommend you to pre-insure yourself and look after the hospital, because after this you will be corrected. There they saw what these guys were doing.
        1. Santa Fe
          Santa Fe 3 July 2013 11: 30 New
          -1
          Quote: ShadowCat
          I would very much like you to be among those whom these People sacrificing themselves and even covering up with their bodies freed, and after that you would think about such a whistle.

          Sorry, 300 hostages were killed during the release operation. The operation failed, and there’s nothing more to talk about
          1. Shadowcat
            Shadowcat 3 July 2013 14: 22 New
            +1
            I'm sorry. As far as I remember, the operation began after the explosion boomed and was unexpected for both sides. At the same time, the terrorists, who already considered themselves suicide bombers, thought that the feds went on the assault and began to shred the liens, while there were negotiations with the terrorists, and even though the plan was for the feds to jump right off the bat.
            Not everything is perfect, the operation is not the one to be boasted about (and you won’t believe the guys who were supposed to save and didn’t save much worse. After all, not only are they blamed, they blame themselves), but it would be better if you cut everyone out there ?
            1. Santa Fe
              Santa Fe 3 July 2013 14: 44 New
              0
              Quote: ShadowCat
              but in your opinion it would be better if everyone was cut out there?

              They cut everyone out there anyway, that’s the catch
              334 killed
              800 Wounded

              The first two explosions of 3 September occurred as a result of shots from a grenade launcher or flamethrower: since poor visibility impeded the work of a sniper, a grenade launcher fired to eliminate the militant standing on the closing pedal, which also solved the problem of opening the mine chain.

              A fire in the gym occurred immediately after the first explosions.

              In 13.30, inside the gym, “apparently, one of the gangster mines exploded”, which caused the third, most powerful explosion.

              Between 14.00 and 14.30 tank number 328 made several volleys of "blanks" in the dining room and kitchen.

              In 16.30 tank number 325 almost at close range shot the dining roomlocated above the entrance to the basement


              - report of the Parliament of North Ossetia
              1. Shadowcat
                Shadowcat 3 July 2013 15: 00 New
                0
                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                They cut everyone out there anyway, that’s the catch
                334 killed
                800 Wounded

                All this 1134 killed.

                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                The first two explosions of September 3 occurred as a result of shots from a grenade launcher or a flamethrower: since poor visibility impeded the work of a sniper, a grenade launcher fired to eliminate the fighter standing on the closing pedal, which also solved the problem of opening the mine chain.

                What are your suggestions for action? the bandits were not about to give up. They could have made a big broads there, and this was the closure that was removed, albeit radically.

                Why don't you remember those who were evacuated from the windows, and those who began to run away "not according to plan" and their feds closed the bandits' fire with their bodies?
                1. Santa Fe
                  Santa Fe 3 July 2013 18: 58 New
                  0
                  Quote: ShadowCat
                  All this 1134 killed.

                  What are we talking about

                  What is hidden under the word: wounded? Her legs were torn off, that’s what is hiding there. 1000 + man - bloody porridge
                  Quote: ShadowCat
                  What are your suggestions for action? the bandits were not going to give up

                  Probably the school wasn’t worth shooting from tanks. This is some kind of inadequate

                  For this, members of special forces are paid money from the budget - so that they think, train, and work out any option. They devoted their whole lives to this, it is their job to protect and save civilians. For the sake of life on earth.
                  Quote: ShadowCat
                  Why don't you remember those who were evacuated from the windows, and those who began to run away "not according to plan" and their feds closed the bandits' fire with their bodies?

                  They did what they could, well done. But the main task of the capture group failed
                  300 + corpses, hundreds of injuries
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 3 July 2013 19: 11 New
                    0
                    It seems that you are not aware of what actually happened there. There was no capture, no prepared assault. The tanks were brought there only in the early evening. They were loaded onto "carts" only at lunchtime, at about two o'clock.
                  2. Misantrop
                    Misantrop 3 July 2013 19: 22 New
                    0
                    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                    For this, members of special forces are paid money from the budget - so that they think, practice, worked out any option.

                    Is the submission of the operation plan and the time of its start to the militants included in the concept of "any option"? And they were handed over by the deputies, who are also paid money from the same budget, which is typical
                    1. Santa Fe
                      Santa Fe 3 July 2013 20: 59 New
                      -1
                      Quote: Misantrop
                      Is the submission of the operation plan and the time of its start to the militants included in the concept of "any option"?

                      A flock of sheep driven by a lion is stronger than the surrender of lions, driven by a sheep / Napoleon /

                      here, of course, the point is not stupidity, but someone’s self-interest, but the essence is one.
                      in any case, the capture team failed the task
                      1. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 3 July 2013 21: 59 New
                        0
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        in any case, the capture team failed the task

                        The capture group did not act at all
                      2. Santa Fe
                        Santa Fe 4 July 2013 01: 51 New
                        0
                        Quote: Spade
                        The capture group did not act at all

                        And where was she all these three days?
  15. Denis
    Denis 2 July 2013 17: 46 New
    +2
    Quote: velikoros-xnumx
    landing in Grenada. There are a lot of such examples.
    There are some fresheners. In Africa, in Mogadish it seems
    where are jeeps, helicopters, etc.
  • VOLCHOXURAL
    VOLCHOXURAL 2 July 2013 12: 52 New
    10
    Quote: Beck
    Okay, post-war contradictions, but now what’s up ... howl, about the ally’s failure in 2MB. Name the scoffers at least one army in history that from time to time would not fail. For those times, it would be better if the United States did not supply us with raw materials, weapons, industrial and food products through a land lens. Or would it be better if the United States did not land its troops in Italy and France?

    I foresee the peppy voice of the terrier, which would be better. I agree that they would have won, but the price was incomparably more expensive. Not 20 millions, but 40 or more. And this means that a significant part of us today would not have been born at all.

    You look how to be stained! fellow In the first Lend-Lease was no more than 5 percent of Soviet production! And secondly - in general, the help is the concept of DISSELFIBLE (at least on this side of the ocean). And your goons demanded a triple price in gold, and after the war they called it a rent and demanded that everything be returned to you in vain, if your mother is expensive! sad So the fact that you have enough hypocrisy to call help was not at all! yes It was just a sneaky, redneck business and profit on almost nothing! After all, you, in your hypocritical nation of deceitful and vile goons, hucksters and swindlers know how to do just that! No. Sorry for the cleanliness! hi
    1. Beck
      Beck 2 July 2013 14: 32 New
      10
      Quote: VOLCHONOKSURALA
      After all, you, in your hypocritical nation of deceitful and vile goons, hucksters and swindlers know how to do just that! Sorry for the cleanliness!


      I will answer you separately.

      First of all. Why are you attributing me to the amers ?. This Beeline conductor confuses everything with flags. Therefore, I have either a striped flag or a blue Kazakhstan flag. Kazakh I.

      Secondly. I already on May 9 presented for review. But I will present it now. Because, so that people like you would know that I honor the WINNERS and don’t hail, for nothing, the allies of those times. The fact that they are not allies now is a different matter.

      Here are my father’s rewards. Left combat. Right labor. Below are anniversary, their father did not wear, and did not endure all sorts of badges. And it hangs in the most prominent place in my house as a memory of ALL OUR WINNERS.
      1. VOLCHOXURAL
        VOLCHOXURAL 2 July 2013 15: 10 New
        +2
        Quote: Beck
        And it hangs in the most prominent place in my house as a memory of ALL OUR WINNERS.

        But at the same time belittle their dignity! What without the Lend-Lease, which was very insignificant - no more than 5 percent of the production of the USSR, which still cost so much, would they lose some 40 million or more? What are you speaking about? request
        Quote: Beck
        I don’t know why in vain the allies of those times

        And the fact that these allies, in the 45, deliberately raided our positions, in the reflection of which, in particular, Kozhedub himself participated! Our ships were drowned and, in general, did a lot of illegal things, from which ours suffered losses. And it seems, for its part, absolutely not considering us allies. Doesn't it sound like talking to you? And at the expense of the flag, then I'm sorry (although this is not the main point)
        1. Denis
          Denis 2 July 2013 17: 52 New
          +1
          Quote: VOLCHONOKSURALA
          Lend-Lease, which was very insignificant - no more than 5 percent of Soviet production
          It is also possible to hear about 10%, but this is not the point. They simultaneously developed their technologies and production.
          And how much did you get for free? They didn’t create the atomic bomb and the missile program by their own Indians, Mexicans or Irish
        2. VOLCHOXURAL
          VOLCHOXURAL 2 July 2013 19: 41 New
          +1
          Comrades minusculers, if you haven’t read it, or read it inattentively, what is the exact essence of our conversation, then suck .. am I minus? So automatically? Or do you not agree that our heroes deserve the highest honors ???
          1. TRAFFIC
            TRAFFIC 2 July 2013 20: 00 New
            -1
            For example, I don’t like some of your arguments, at least read Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9E%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%BD%D1%8C_%D0%XFND % BE_% D0% 1%
            D0% B2% D0% BE% D0% B8% D0% BC about the fire in its own way during the Second World War, and about Lend-Lease you have a one-sided approach, so minus.
            1. VOLCHOXURAL
              VOLCHOXURAL 2 July 2013 20: 16 New
              +2
              Comrade traffic (understand my sarcasm) judging by the flag you are almost in NATO, are you protecting the hosts? winked It is regrettable that one Wikipedia educates you. request Indeed, even on this site a lot of material was about this, with links to different sources! And in particular about Kozhedub’s fights with Amer’s pilots, at least yes
              1. TRAFFIC
                TRAFFIC 2 July 2013 20: 24 New
                0
                Think exclusively of stereotypes, I don’t have any masters, I defend only the truth, did we get to know how allies wet each other?
    2. djon77
      djon77 2 July 2013 19: 18 New
      -3
      if only 5%, then how do I correctly understand the USSR already at that time completely overtake the United States in almost all sectors of the economy? and as I understand it, we are now observing it and probably
  • goody
    goody 2 July 2013 12: 59 New
    +1
    Yeah, I heard about this story, but thought a joke wink But no, it's all true. Thanks to the author +
  • Raul
    Raul 2 July 2013 13: 15 New
    +1
    The British had a similar story in WWI. "Battle of the Isle of May".
    1. sub307
      sub307 2 July 2013 15: 47 New
      0
      It is easier to count those who have never had "similar stories".
    2. sub307
      sub307 2 July 2013 20: 27 New
      +1
      And, here is a "similar story", or rather a short excerpt from the South Sakhalin operation of the 2nd Far Eastern Front: "Due to the delay of the Soviet 56th corps in the battles to overcome the Japanese fortified area, the command of the 2nd Far Eastern Front ordered to land only on August 15 amphibious assault on the western coast of South Sakhalin (while the command of the Pacific Fleet insisted on the landing of this landing from August 11). For the landing, the 365th Marine battalion and one battalion of the 113th rifle brigade (from the Sovgavan naval base ).
      On 16 on August these forces landed in the port of Toro (100 km south of the border, now Shakhtersk). There were no Japanese troops in the area (there were only a few dozen reservists who surrendered to Soviet captivity without a fight), and the next day the paratroopers freely occupied several Japanese villages, as well as the neighboring port of Esutoru (now Uglegorsk). However, due to the inconsistency between the landing force and the aviation, the Soviet Il-2 attack aircraft struck the Soviet landing force, inflicting losses on it. "
      And there are a lot of such cases.
  • sys-1985
    sys-1985 2 July 2013 13: 19 New
    +1
    Our king was very surprised ... how he failed in a jar. American soldiers are so severe that they carry out an assault without proper intelligence. wassat
  • Gato
    Gato 2 July 2013 17: 05 New
    0
    Let's be objective.
    You can, of course, laugh at the Americans, if nothing like this had ever happened in our history. Unfortunately, no one is immune from mistakes and miscalculations in war. For example, we can recall the ill-fated Black Sea Fleet raid on Constanta, in which the leader "Moscow" was lost, and the submarine Shch-206 tried to attack its ships and was sunk by them.
    1. KG_patriot_last
      KG_patriot_last 2 July 2013 17: 50 New
      +2
      These are not valid theories. Archival data, Romanian and Russian, refute this.

      Of the confirmed masses, one can note:

      The second Chechen war. In a shoot-out between fighters of Sverdlovsk, Podolsky riot police and successive OMON fighters Sergiev Posad, 22 policemen were killed and 54 were wounded.
      1. Gato
        Gato 2 July 2013 18: 22 New
        0
        Transaction Report Text:
        http://retrospicere.narod.ru/1-barbarossa1941/barbarossa1941_991.htm

        There are also links to archival documents
  • badabing
    badabing 2 July 2013 18: 59 New
    0
    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
    Quote: velikoros-xnumx
    Take the "elite" special group "Delta" though. Why I can't understand the elite - practically not a single success, only failures

    Elite special group "Alpha" - almost no success, only failures:
    The liberation of the theater on Dubrovka - 100 + dead hostages
    The liberation of the school in Beslan - 300 + dead hostages

    Everyone has their own heroes, victories and failures. Landing on Kysku is certainly a terrible mess, but the Amers have many other successful operations

    Well, about your failures you can write songs
    http://www.warandpeace.ru/ru/reports/view/33430/
  • Shadowcat
    Shadowcat 2 July 2013 23: 30 New
    +1
    It would be interesting to look for their newspapers of that time. I'm ready to argue that there was a layout given that "the Yankees drove the millionth garrison from the island of Kiska ..." and further in the text. And after that, the generals gritted their teeth angrily as the valiant Soviet troops carried out the most complex operations requiring high organization and precise planning.
  • Xnumx kopeek
    Xnumx kopeek 2 July 2013 23: 49 New
    0
    Quote: Beck
    Okay, post-war contradictions, but now what’s up ... howl, about the ally’s failure in 2MB. Name the scoffers at least one army in history that from time to time would not fail. For those times, it would be better if the United States did not supply us with raw materials, weapons, industrial and food products through a land lens. Or would it be better if the United States did not land its troops in Italy and France?

    I foresee the peppy voice of the terrier, which would be better. I agree that they would have won, but the price was incomparably more expensive. Not 20 millions, but 40 or more. And this means that a significant part of us today would not have been born at all.

    Even Churchill voiced the policy of the allies - to help both the USSR and the Wehrmacht / mutual destruction / - in order to come running to carve up the pie in time, their history. style. = Yank is so easy to give a fuck / lend-lease / no need to project Ross. psychology on them. We won without the Studebakers and canned meat. / canned meat owls. the soldiers called --- "Uncle Sem's 2nd Front" / -
    -And Dunkirk / 1940 / vividly showed the "military talents" of the allies. There is no sense in talking about the rest.
  • Sea snake
    Sea snake 3 July 2013 10: 06 New
    +1
    Quote: Beck


    And why did you have to give up all this in 41-43? And now turn up your nose, they say we ourselves with a mustache. Stalin worried about each, during the undelivered, "Harikane" ..... And do not care about all this?

    Dear Sir (or whatever is customary in your homeland) Beck, no one belittles the importance of "help"))) from the United States during the Great Patriotic War. Nobody is going to spit - the Russian people are grateful! They just want to convey something else to you ... that America would not have gotten off the "stove" if there were no financial and political benefits for the United States from the multimillion-dollar meat grinder - World War II. As always, the main goals are the desire for profit and the redivision of the world according to THEIR view.
    Read that calculation from Wikipedia to the end, well, the one from which you took the numbers ..... you will be very surprised how much (at what TIMES) it was NOT supplied. I hope you figure out why it was so - in order to maintain the military power, the military balance of both opposing Armies is approximately the same ... so that each other will be "soaked" as long as possible and more.
    There is also another interesting point - Germany (together with Italy) declared war on the USA on December 111941year !!! But for some reason, the United States did not have a lightning-fast and numerous landing in Europe, numbering at least several divisions ... to fight "the common enemy" - Nazism. (For reference, the Western Front was opened in 1944 ... less than a year was left before OUR Victory!) And you shouldn't hear that they, like, took care of their soldiers ... it's all for their "local" electorate. The main goal is to prolong the war as long as possible in order to make a profit.
    Quote: "From the fall of 1939 to the fall of 1943, industrial production in the United States grew by almost 2,5 times. This growth was caused by the war and orders for military equipment, food, etc."
    For a more complete presentation of xy from xy, I strongly advise you to read this analysis carefully and carefully --- http://www.warandpeace.ru/en/analysis/view/34556/
    I hope,Beckthat much for you to clarify and project on today's US behavior.
    Nothing personal, respectfully Sea snake.
    1. Beck
      Beck 3 July 2013 11: 39 New
      -1
      Quote: Sea Snake
      Dear sir (or whatever is customary in your homeland) Beck, no one belittles the importance of "help")))


      You that did not read comments. Two-thirds of visitors to this page are belittled.

      Quote: Sea Snake
      They just want to convey something else to you ... that America would not have gotten off the "stove" if there were no financial and political benefits for the United States from the multimillion-dollar meat grinder - World War II. As always, the main goals are the desire for profit and the repartition of the world according to THEIR view.


      The United States did not want to get involved in the war in Europe. The United States had a law not to use troops outside the United States unless the United States was attacked or declared war. This is due to losses incurred by the US Army in 1 MB. They say that fighting in other countries for non-American interests. Therefore, Churchill for two years persuaded Roosevelt to join the war. But he could not violate US law. Until Hitler himself, the first, declared war on the United States in early December 1941, after Pearl Harbor. And one of the main reasons Hitler declared war on the United States was the fact that the United States, with its land-lens, significantly helped Great Britain and the USSR in the war against Germany.

      Have you ever wondered why the United States began active hostilities in the Pacific Ocean only at the end of 1942, the beginning of 1943? But because the US Army was not ready for a full-scale major war. During these two years, the United States built aircraft carriers, submarines, tanks, airplanes, trained mass-recruited personnel, and only after creating all this did the United States begin active hostilities.

      Quote: Sea Snake
      From the fall of 1939 to the fall of 1943, industrial production in the United States grew by almost 2,5 times. This growth was driven by the war and orders for military equipment, food, etc. "


      The first one. In India, in Russia, in the UK this would not be possible since these countries did not have such an industrial infrastructure as the United States.

      The second one. Growth is caused of course by war. But who ordered industrial and military goods to private capital and who paid for the execution of these orders to private capital. US GOVERNMENT. This US government enriched private capital. With the money issued by the government (and not with the money of India or the USSR), US private capital expanded production and increased output. And after the end of the war, this entire grown infrastructure switched to the production of peaceful products.

      The third. The war raised both the industrial infrastructure and the USSR. Production was created which before the war did not exist. Only in the post-war era ekonimka built on the vicious theories of communism could not compete with the free economy of the developed countries of the world.
      1. Sea snake
        Sea snake 3 July 2013 13: 41 New
        +1
        Quote: Beck

        And one of the main reasons Hitler declared war on the United States was the fact that the United States, with its land-lens, significantly helped Great Britain and the USSR in the war against Germany.

        Lord, what nonsense are you talking about!

        Quote: Beck

        During these two years, the United States built aircraft carriers, submarines, tanks, airplanes, trained mass-recruited personnel, and only after creating all this did the United States begin active hostilities.

        A detailed historical analysis was never read --- http://www.warandpeace.ru/ru/analysis/view/34556/
        Otherwise, you would understand when and with whose hands the United States invaded the African colony countries. And also much more about what you write.

        Quote: Beck

        Growth is caused of course by war. But who ordered industrial and military goods to private capital and who paid for the execution of these orders to private capital. US GOVERNMENT. This US government enriched private capital. With the money issued by the government (and not with the money of India or the USSR), US private capital expanded production and increased output. And after the end of the war, this entire grown infrastructure switched to the production of peaceful products.

        Well, not only peaceful. And about your misconceptions who ordered whom and at whose expense, the film of YOUR COUNTRATOR will clearly tell ... the film " Prosperity — How to Do It on Earth ".

        Quote: Beck

        The war raised both the industrial infrastructure and the USSR.

        Here, of course, I agree completely!
        Quote: Beck

        Only in the post-war era ekonomka built on vicious theories of communism could not compete with the free economies of developed countries.

        There is a manifestation of your "local", American, propaganda!)))
        You do not just have to grill that you are from Kazakhstan and you do not need to show, such as fatherly orders. In the light of what you have said, it is clear where you are from and where your homeland is.

        You so zealously defend and justify American cynicism and the businesslike, purely mercantile approach of the United States to that war that you are not even "put in place" by the words of your former president ---
        After the outbreak of the war between Germany and the USSR, the scenario for the further course of events was outlined in the fall of 1941 by Senator-Democrat Harry Truman (from 1944, Vice President of the USA, from April 1945 to January 1953, President of the USA): “If we see what wins Germany, then we should help Russia, and if Russia wins, then we should help Germany, and thus let them kill each other as much as possible, although I do not want Hitler’s victory under any circumstances ”(N.N. Yakovlev, “Harry Truman: A Political Portrait.” “New and Recent History,” No. 2, 1967, p. 51). So what Roosevelt had in his head, then Truman's, is in his tongue.
        Why don't you comment on them in any way ?! )
        I repeat, still read the analysis --- http://www.warandpeace.ru/ru/analysis/view/34556/
        Probably it’s just unpleasant for you to learn the TRUTH about the American essence in general and the financial and political methods of the United States in the 20th century ... to this day.
        1. Beck
          Beck 3 July 2013 14: 48 New
          -2
          Quote: Sea Snake
          And about your mistakes, who ordered whom and at whose expense


          It is also necessary to see which of us is mistaken.

          Quote: Sea Snake
          There is a manifestation of your "local", American, propaganda!)))


          What kind of propaganda? Show me the place on Earth where the socialist economy based on the theory of communism has remained. They are not there, they all collapsed. There is only one place left - the DPRK, as a warning to humanity how to live.

          Quote: Sea Snake
          You are so zealously defending and justifying American cynicism and the business, purely mercantile approach of the United States to that war,


          I am for objectivity. The USA fought in the Second World War - they fought. Contributed, at least some - made. Helped with a land lens - helped. And I do not shout that for all this amers are bastards. You just envy that now the first is not Russia, but the United States. So you need to take all the best from there, do your best, work and bring the Eurasian Economic Community into the first. Kazakhstan can help as much as possible. And why salivate now, from saliva you will not be the first anyway.

          Quote: Sea Snake
          You do not just have to grill that you are from Kazakhstan and you do not need to show, such as fatherly orders. In the light of what you have said, it is clear where you are from and where your homeland is.


          Yeah. And you can’t explain on the fingers. Now, if it’s not your way, then it’s spawn. I don’t know if I need to cast out and prove who I am, bah and how? Although. I will name some data that you can check. But do not want and do not.

          I served an emergency in Primorye in the 1968-1970 years in the military unit 73430. The commander of the tank in the tank battalion 439 motorized rifle regiment 135 motorized rifle division. The regiments of the division were located 439 at the Lazo station, 199 regiment in the village of Filino, the third regiment, I do not know the number, in Lesozavodsk. Member of Daman events of 1969 of the year. The regiment commander is Lt. Col. Kashirin, the company commander is Captain Voronkin.

          If not laziness in the archives of the Ministry of Defense, all this can be checked. In the archives of defense, you can also check the track record of the artillery officer of the 39 army of the second formation of Army General Ludnikov. This army took Koenigsberg and ended the war in Port Arthur. Surname of the father Waisov Kabysh Mayzholovich 1922 year of birth, left as a volunteer from Mr. Kzyl-Orda.

          If you are a normal person, you will check and apologize for your words - TYPE FATHER ORDERS. You can without checking apologize now.

  • Sea snake
    Sea snake 3 July 2013 13: 59 New
    +1
    Quote: Beck

    The United States did not want to get involved in the war in Europe.

    Well, well, essno))) ... they themselves unleashed it, in addition, helping Hitler.
  • Sea snake
    Sea snake 3 July 2013 20: 32 New
    -3
    Quote: Beck

    I am for objectivity. The USA fought in the Second World War - they fought. Contributed, at least some - made. Helped with a land lens - helped. And I do not shout that for all this amers are bastards.

    What objectivity are you for? Haha, you seem to be a mishandled Amerovian Cossack, to whom the TRUTH pierces the womb of the eye. And I did not grill that amers bastards.
    "Have contributed, at least some - have contributed" --- Ash stump, what! They themselves provoked and themselves helped both sides, considering the financial and political profits. And now nothing has changed. Until now, you do not live peacefully, climb everywhere ... then Al Qaeda, etc. bad, then good ... you have terrorists everywhere and a threat to democracy ... one impudent substitution of the concepts of what is worth.
    Quote: Beck

    You just envy that now the first is not Russia, but the United States. So you need to take all the best from there, do your best, work and bring the Eurasian Economic Community into the first.

    The Lord is with you ... what envy? ... to whom? Do not tell the Russian people! And hide your cheap propaganda away ... not a ride.
    We have already taken the best "from there" ... we cannot now etch it out.
    Kazakhstan can help as much as possible. --- Grew, here you are - a mishandled Cossack. So aggressively provoking that I’ll write some thread muck about our Kazakh, friendly neighbors.
    Quote: Beck

    I served an emergency in Primorye in the 1968-1970 years in the military unit 73430. The tank commander in the tank battalion .............. participant in the Daman events of 1969 of the year.

    Not convinced at all! Having grown up and lived almost all his life in the USSR, he will not impose and advocate the American model of development and exaggerate the Amer’s significance in OUR Victory.
    Quote: Beck

    If you are a normal person, you will check and apologize for your words - TYPE FATHER ORDERS. You can without checking apologize now.

    Before whom? In front of an ill-mannered Amerian slate who are you strangers to? They were not convinced with the orders, it is possible that you are a charlatan collector or have stolen them from a retired front-line soldier.
    Quote: Beck

    If you don’t think to apologize, then you are a complete bastard and a scumbag.

    How many emotions!))) That's just even leave the answers, from the refutation of what I wrote to you in the posts above. Clearly, there is nothing to cover, so the nerves.) TRUTH, apparently, I don’t like very much.
    1. Beck
      Beck 3 July 2013 21: 40 New
      +2
      Quote: Sea Snake
      How many emotions!))) That's just even leave the answers, from the refutation of what I wrote to you in the posts above. Clearly, there is nothing to cover, so the nerves.) TRUTH, apparently, I don’t like very much.


      Yes, you went to hu ... to drive the geese with a telegraph pole along the vertical wattle fence. Old-timers of the site know me. And even those with whom I constantly in confrontation did not insult the memory of my father when I first placed a snapshot of the orders on the page.

      And the truth is like a baboon at the end. Take a walk further.
  • Sea snake
    Sea snake 4 July 2013 02: 26 New
    0
    Quote: Beck

    Yes, you went to hu ... to drive the geese tor


    Well, insults have already gone!))) When there is nothing to cover, when they are pressed against the wall, then all the guano come out. And the nerves must be treated, you can’t react so violently ... you still need strength in promoting pro-American propaganda attitudes.
    Quote: Beck

    And the truth is like a baboon at the end. Take a walk further.

    And all poke and poke ... from your own words, like, an elderly person ... and what a primitive bad manners! And so much aggression! You are probably some kind of flawed and humiliated pervert. A pervert of the obvious and such a herald of US "merit". It is not clear what you forgot on this site ?! If your father saw what you are writing here and what is in your head, he would probably say: "I gave birth to you, and I will kill you." Yes, and don’t lie ... a front-line hero cannot raise such a child.
    And the truth is like a baboon at the end. --- Well, can you, you, the Amers, have their own truth.
    Take a walk further. --- here I will somehow figure out myself to walk or to "poke your nose" into the TRUTH a little more. Haha, the Yankees haven't told me what to do yet.
    Hi Barak!)
    1. Cat
      Cat 4 July 2013 03: 18 New
      -1
      Quote: Sea Snake
      Well, insults have already gone!)))

      as for me, you should have been sent much earlier. Because drive out a blizzard.
      Yes, patriotism is good.
      But:
      If the equipment supplied under Lend-Lease saved the life of even one of our soldiers, this is already a good thing. And if, thanks to these supplies, hundreds and thousands of people survived, even more so. And no matter who and for what purpose organized these deliveries.
      By and large, only those who fought in the Sherman, Aero Cobra, went on Studebaker and Dodge, and so on, can talk about whether a land lease was needed or not. Only their opinion is important. And you, who did not fight and did not even serve an urgent one, you can put your opinion in your own backside, there he has the right place.
      1. Beck
        Beck 4 July 2013 06: 23 New
        +1
        Quote: Cat
        as for me, you should have been sent much earlier. Because drive out a blizzard.
        Yes, patriotism is good.
        But:


        Thanks for the support. My personal sent to me - a charlatan, a meanness and others, I would have survived, this is not a problem. But unreasonably abusing the memory of my father is too much for me. Because disrespect for one Victor is disrespect for all our WINNERS.
  • Sea snake
    Sea snake 5 July 2013 21: 29 New
    0
    Quote: Cat

    as for me, you should have been sent much earlier. Because drive out a blizzard.

    Oh, oh, the defenders climbed out. What a blizzard, first look what your friend writes .... ahhh, yes, you are from the same state.)))
  • Sea snake
    Sea snake 5 July 2013 21: 36 New
    +1
    Quote: Cat

    But:
    If the equipment supplied under Lend-Lease saved the life of even one of our soldiers, this is already a good thing. And if, thanks to these supplies, hundreds and thousands of people survived, even more so. And no matter who and for what purpose organized these deliveries.


    Well, show me, dear, where did I grill that Lenlize is bad? Yes, and in general, our debate is not about that, carefully read from the beginning.
  • Sea snake
    Sea snake 5 July 2013 21: 41 New
    0
    Quote: Cat
    And you, who did not fight and did not even serve an urgent one, you can put your opinion in your own backside, there he has the right place.

    Where does such confidence in my non-membership in CA come from? ))) ... Clever man.
    The good news is that even though you communicate culturally, you don’t poke as your client. Yes, and in general, in general, I liked your answer. Current, first understand what fuss.
  • Sea snake
    Sea snake 5 July 2013 21: 58 New
    +1
    Quote: Beck

    My personal sent to me - a charlatan, a meanness and others, I would have survived, this is not a problem. But unreasonably abusing the memory of my father is too much for me. Because disrespect for one Victor is disrespect for all our WINNERS.

    Yes, really ... yes, really! He would survive. Where there, if the pride of the uncultured Neanderthal is hurt. The memory of all the winners and awards of your father has not been stolen by anyone! You probably have a bad understanding of Russian?
    And, in general, stop hiding behind the merits of your father ... it's ugly ... especially since the father's opinion about WHOSE people are the victor and how our frost soldiers were waiting for the opening of the Western Front, while the Yankees openly "pissed" and waited, it would be excellent From your.
  • VOLCHOXURAL
    VOLCHOXURAL 6 July 2013 07: 28 New
    +2
    Quote: Beck
    Kozhedub became four times a hero smashing the enemy on the "Aircobra"
    belay Actually, not four times, but three times! And he flew on the "bench" fifth, and then seventh !!! yes (connoisseur of history) laughing