Military Review

"Armata": silence that has no analogues

396
Over the last time, various kinds of images regularly appear, which show the alleged appearance of a promising tank based on the Armata platform. However, all such drawings and three-dimensional models have one characteristic feature - among them there is not a single official image of the new combat vehicle. The authors of the project have not yet spoiled the public with information, which is why a variety of speculations on this topic appear. The declared dates for adopting "Almaty" into service are approaching, but, nevertheless, responsible persons are still limited only to general statements and are in no hurry to publish any technical information.




Last week, 27 of June, the Deputy Minister of Defense Y. Borisov once again touched upon the creation of a new armored platform, which attracted the attention of the entire public interested in this topic. To the chagrin of armored amateurs and experts, the deputy minister again managed to use common words, without specifics. Y. Borisov said that the promising main battle tank “Armata”, which is being created now, will surpass all existing foreign vehicles of this class in its combat characteristics. Moreover, the Deputy Minister of Defense said that the characteristics and capabilities of “Almaty” will be higher than those of similar foreign cars being developed at present.

The same, according to Borisov, applies to other weapons systems that are being built in our country now. So, at the stage of completing the design work, any new types of weapons and military equipment are at least as good as their foreign counterparts. The deputy minister noted that in some cases the characteristics of domestic developments are even higher than those of corresponding foreign samples. Otherwise, there is no point in running such projects.

Thus, the conversation about a promising tank on the basis of an armored platform "Armata" once again ended on the most common words. Of course, the statements of the Deputy Minister of Defense about the superiority of the new domestic technology over foreign please the ear, but do not add any new information to the existing one. The technical details of the project are still unknown, which can be interpreted in the broadest possible manner, including in a negative way.

The reason for the specific reaction of the public, among other things, may be plans of Uralvagonzavod regarding the display of a new tank. A few weeks ago, the company's general director, I. Sienko, stated that the Armata tank would not be on display at the Russian Arms Expo military equipment exhibition in September in Nizhny Tagil. The reason for this is the secrecy of the project. Earlier, some sources claimed that the future exhibition will be held "premiere" promising tank. Now, it seems, the public will have to suffer several months before they show her a new combat vehicle.

In the context of the display of the new tank, the third version is also mentioned. Thus, expert A. Khlopotov, citing rumors circulating in certain circles, writes that the first show of Almaty will take place this fall. However, at first the tank will be shown to a narrow circle of persons from the leadership of the country and the military department. What will happen after this - while no one can say. The hassle suggests that the upcoming show may turn out to be a trivial blow of dust in the eyes of the high authorities. For these purposes, they can assemble a model of a promising combat vehicle at a single tank-building enterprise, which they will show to the president, the minister of defense and other officials.

So far, for obvious reasons, it is impossible to say how much Hlopote is right. Perhaps the assembly of the first prototype of the Armata tank will begin soon, but another development scenario cannot be ruled out, in which the design bureau of Uralvagonzavod will not have time to complete the design work by the fall. In view of the secrecy of the project, it remains only to guess what its actual state is. Naturally, this can be the cause of the emergence of various kinds of speculations, including negative ones. Probably, to correct the situation with a large number of rumors and the almost complete absence of verified information could timely announcement of information about the progress of work.

However, until now, only the most general facts are known about “Armata”, and more accurate information concerns only the approximate terms of development and adoption. Naturally, this serves as an excellent ground for the emergence of various rumors. Most likely, in the future, the industry and the Ministry of Defense will continue the current policy of announcing information about the project, which does not imply the publication of any details. Therefore, until a full-fledged demonstration of the prototype of a promising tank — and now we can assume that this will not happen next autumn — the Armat program will remain secret and therefore provoking controversy.


On the materials of the sites:
http://ria.ru/
http://rg.ru/
http://gurkhan.blogspot.ru/
Author:
396 comments
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  1. alexdol
    alexdol 1 July 2013 07: 46 New
    -18
    Given the pogrom of production and science that occurred after the collapse of the USSR, it is difficult to count on something UNIQUE, because everything that continues to be created today is done so far on the basis of the backlog of what remained after the UNION. Therefore, a plausible assumption by expert Khlopotov:
    “So, expert A. Khlopotov, referring to rumors circulating in certain circles, writes that the first show of“ Almaty ”will nevertheless take place this fall. However, first the tank will be shown to a narrow circle of people from the country's leadership and the military department. ... Khlopotov suggests that the upcoming show may turn out to be a BANAL STARTING DUST in the eyes of high authorities. For these purposes, a single tank-building enterprise can assemble a model of a promising combat vehicle, which will be shown to the president, defense minister and other officials. "
    1. neri73-r
      neri73-r 1 July 2013 10: 50 New
      32
      Comrades, don’t be jealous !!! Everything is going according to plan, well, it just so happened that we have at least something under construction! hi
      1. Armata
        Armata 1 July 2013 11: 09 New
        -1
        Quote: neri73-r
        Comrades, don’t be jealous !!! Everything is going according to plan, well, it just so happened that we have at least something under construction!
        Yah? What plan? Do not confuse grass with desires, or rather with her dreams. So the project was suspended by order of the Moscow Region. Who needs to defend their homeland?
        1. Basileus
          Basileus 1 July 2013 11: 12 New
          +6
          Will there be an order number? I would like to get acquainted at my leisure.
          1. Armata
            Armata 1 July 2013 11: 32 New
            -4
            Quote: Basileus
            I would like to get acquainted at my leisure.
            You want too much.
            1. Basileus
              Basileus 1 July 2013 11: 47 New
              +5
              Well essno. The main thing is to blurt out, but that there is nothing to confirm is unimportant, and so they will believe.
              1. Armata
                Armata 1 July 2013 11: 58 New
                0
                Quote: Basileus
                Well essno. The main thing is to blurt out, but that there is nothing to confirm is unimportant, and so they will believe.
                Listen. So that is the concept of "state secret." A lot of yours got divorced, but adequate are already in the minority. Drive the site as you want morally omitted.
                1. Basileus
                  Basileus 1 July 2013 12: 00 New
                  -3
                  That is, they managed to get them into the water, but they didn’t confirm their words. Go the right way, comrade!
                  1. Yarbay
                    Yarbay 1 July 2013 12: 07 New
                    +7
                    Quote: Basileus
                    That is, they managed to get them into the water, but they didn’t confirm their words. Go the right way, comrade!

                    You please watch your expressions while talking with a stranger to you!
                    Everyone who has been writing here for a long time knows Eugene well and knows that he knows very well in the field that he comments on!
                    And I know him as a person who loves his homeland and cheers for it with all his heart!
                    1. Basileus
                      Basileus 1 July 2013 12: 09 New
                      +5
                      Well, maybe we’ll wait from him for something other than rudeness. In the meantime, only unconfirmed OBM mixed with rudeness.
                      1. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 1 July 2013 12: 16 New
                        -5
                        Quote: Basileus
                        Well, maybe we’ll wait from him for something other than rudeness

                        Yes, it was not rudeness, but the answer to your incompetent question!
                        and here you are in return sham!
                        Maybe Eugenia should not have written about it at all, but he is better informed than all of us and everyone here knows that!
                      2. Basileus
                        Basileus 1 July 2013 12: 17 New
                        13
                        If this is so secret, then maybe it was not worth talking about it at all?

                        Of course, the words of a person confusing the T-80 and T-72 are not in doubt.
                      3. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 1 July 2013 12: 28 New
                        -12
                        Quote: Basileus
                        If this is so secret, then maybe it was not worth talking about it at all?

                        He knows better than us what and in what quantity I can say so!
                      4. Basileus
                        Basileus 1 July 2013 12: 35 New
                        +9
                        It is likely that I'm wrong here. But so far, apart from doubtful words, which will not be confirmed, nothing is heard from him. Here are the confirmations - I will sprinkle ash on my head.
                  2. old man54
                    old man54 1 July 2013 14: 01 New
                    +4
                    very consistent, tactful and at the same time tough answer! :) "+"! I’m not sure that I could. :) East ... however :)))
                  3. andrey903
                    andrey903 1 July 2013 15: 32 New
                    0
                    T-72 and T-90 can be confused, it is likely that the T-72 and armandode will be similar
                  4. POBEDA
                    POBEDA 25 July 2013 02: 34 New
                    +2
                    100% can be mixed up!
                    The armata will have 2 tracks, 6-7 pairs of rollers, 1 cannon 125-150 mm, 1-2 machine guns 7.62, and it will be green)))
              2. Pimply
                Pimply 1 July 2013 12: 58 New
                +3
                Given your communication style, I wonder how you were not sent at all.
              3. Basileus
                Basileus 1 July 2013 13: 32 New
                +5
                Given the fact that a person is lying without hesitation, it is strange that he generally has some weight here. Maybe you will give links for it, it would be interesting.

                Oh yes, let's write everything that comes to mind, we will send them to all questions of beginners and we will zaminusut! So win!
              4. Armata
                Armata 1 July 2013 13: 38 New
                -16
                Quote: Basileus
                Given the fact that a person is lying unashamedly,
                Justify, but not from the Internet. I wanted to call you a little-educated shaggy animal, which is scooped with info on the internet, but not. And if you don’t like it, leave the site (or weak?)
              5. Basileus
                Basileus 1 July 2013 13: 43 New
                +7
                You have not provided ANY confirmation to your words. Why should I believe you?

                I wanted to call you a fat troll, not responsible for my words, but you have a bunch of fans here, so I won’t.
              6. Vanek
                Vanek 1 July 2013 13: 49 New
                -8
                Quote: Basileus
                I wanted to call you a fat troll, not responsible for my words, but you have a bunch of fans here, so I won’t.


                Well, it's just a sin not to intervene.

                you at least apologize.
              7. Basileus
                Basileus 1 July 2013 13: 51 New
                13
                For what? A person writes something with a smart look, while not leading anything at all to his advantage. Why should I believe him? I already wrote - as soon as at least one of his words is confirmed - I will certainly apologize. In the meantime, not at all.
              8. Kars
                Kars 1 July 2013 13: 53 New
                +5
                In vain you are so. I personally see no reason (well, except for a badly working mail))) I do not believe the Steam Engine / Mechanic. We do not have a better source of information on Armata. And your right to believe or not, but it’s not worth it so actively distributed.
              9. Basileus
                Basileus 1 July 2013 14: 01 New
                +8
                Well, sobsno he himself reacted so violently to doubts in his words, and here the locals ran. No one is able to answer humanly here - so you have to snap.
              10. Yarbay
                Yarbay 1 July 2013 14: 10 New
                0
                Quote: Basileus
                Well, sobsno he himself reacted so violently to doubts in his words, and here the locals ran. No one is able to answer humanly here - so you have to snap.

                Yes, they didn’t))))
                You probably understand that this is not a dating site or a forum of beer lovers !!))
                And we have known each other for a long time !!
                We agree in something, we argue about something to the last!
                But first, we know who is competent in what, who has what character!
                Secondly, knowing each other for a long time, despite disagreements, we are trying to get along in the framework!
                Ramanov gave you good advice, I often answer a stranger first read what he wrote before!
              11. Basileus
                Basileus 1 July 2013 14: 15 New
                18
                And I read that they write to me in response. And I answer rudeness with rudeness, for a person who is not able to properly answer the question is not worthy of another. But a newbie can be sent, why should he explain something, right?
              12. Yarbay
                Yarbay 1 July 2013 14: 23 New
                -7
                Quote: Basileus
                who is not able to properly answer the question posed otherwise is not worthy

                Do you think your question was normal ??
                If Yes, then I have nothing more to say!
            2. Armata
              Armata 1 July 2013 14: 27 New
              -6
              Quote: Yarbay
              Amanov gave you good advice, I often answer a stranger first read what he wrote before
              Alibek, do not worry about something to prove to him, This is just a random passerby.
            3. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 1 July 2013 14: 33 New
              +9
              Alibek, Zhenya hi , I wrote to the person in PM, explained, tie up to run over.
            4. Yarbay
              Yarbay 1 July 2013 14: 36 New
              +4
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              I wrote to the person in PM, explained, tie to run over.

              I’m not going to run into anything!)))
              I just tried to explain my position, otherwise they will write me down again in some sort of gang)))
            5. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 1 July 2013 14: 51 New
              +5
              Quote: Yarbay
              , and then again I will be recorded in some sort of gang)))

              Alibek, you don’t get used to it. welcome to Russia laughing
            6. Yarbay
              Yarbay 1 July 2013 15: 05 New
              +2
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              Alibek, you don’t get used to it. welcome to Russia

              Sanya, I returned yesterday))))))))))
              Spent 4 unforgettable days in Moscow)))))))
              And surprisingly, I was received everywhere very hospitably)))
            7. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 1 July 2013 15: 11 New
              -1
              Quote: Yarbay
              And surprisingly, I was received everywhere very hospitably)))

              Where you were received hospitably by the police laughing
            8. Yarbay
              Yarbay 1 July 2013 15: 17 New
              +3
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              Where you were received hospitably by the police

              Tell you everything)))))
              and the police are normal guys, very politely a couple of times showed the way, but not where you just thought))))))))))))
            9. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 1 July 2013 15: 24 New
              +4
              Quote: Yarbay
              and police normal guys, very politely a couple of times showed the way, n

              By type - Yes, you go ON **** right there will be a stop wassat
              Polite cops, you were in Russia for sure wassat
            10. Yarbay
              Yarbay 1 July 2013 15: 34 New
              -1
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              Polite cops, you were in Russia for sure

              Capital))))))))))))))
              Moscow is for you no Mukhos *** k)))))
              gaining the best)))))
              The face of the country !!)))
            11. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 1 July 2013 15: 43 New
              +2
              Quote: Yarbay
              gaining the best)))))

              That's just the way I can answer you with a longing in my soul crying
  2. PSih2097
    PSih2097 1 July 2013 20: 20 New
    +2
    Quote: Yarbay
    and then again I will be recorded in some sort of gang)))

    Alikbek, initially you are a citizen of Azerbaijan, and only then you are cool from our site ... Although I read the opposite.
  3. Armata
    Armata 1 July 2013 18: 10 New
    +3
    Quote: Kars
    well, except for badly working mail)
    She returned to my home)))))))))) Well, what Africa, Ukraine has the same customs.
  4. Alexander Romanov
    Alexander Romanov 1 July 2013 13: 57 New
    +1
    Quote: Basileus
    Why should I believe him?

    Read his old komenty, maybe you will understand why.
  5. Vanek
    Vanek 1 July 2013 13: 59 New
    -4
    Quote: Basileus
    . In the meantime, not at all.


    And this:

    Quote: Basileus
    I wanted to call you a fat troll, not responsible for my words, but you have a bunch of fans here, so I won’t.


    Do you think it's not worth apologizing for?

    Until you apologize for this, I will address you with a small letter.
  6. Basileus
    Basileus 1 July 2013 14: 03 New
    16
    I do not care what letter you will contact me. A person is not able to respond normally to a simple request for evidence, so, should I look at his epaulettes and lash myself with a scourge for such impudence?
  7. Alexander Romanov
    Alexander Romanov 1 July 2013 14: 07 New
    0
    Quote: Basileus
    A person is not able to respond normally to a simple request for evidence,

    And what kind of info do you want to get from secret developments?
  8. Basileus
    Basileus 1 July 2013 14: 09 New
    +7
    So what is there to spread about them in this case? Climb higher, there is the answer to your question.
  9. KG_patriot_last
    KG_patriot_last 1 July 2013 14: 18 New
    +7
    in the east, disputes like that of the Mechanic and Basilius are resolved very simply:
    one swears that this is so, and the other sincerely believes his words drinks wassat
  10. aksakal
    aksakal 1 July 2013 15: 24 New
    41
    Gentlemen, in fact, the first Naughty Mechanic. Bazi Forest asked for the order number in confirmation, he was simply boorishly answered - you want a lot! Why not: unfortunately, the order is secret, because it will not be given to you! And that’s all! The conflict is over! The mechanic, alas, you overdo it a bit with the VAF ... Do you assert yourself so when you talk with lovers of Russian military equipment in this tone? To be honest, I didn’t see confirmation of your occupation or confirmation of special professionalism in your posts (I saw it at the VAF) - the ermine KARS is even more useful, but there’s a lot of ambition like "want a lot!" - more than enough! Sorry and don’t be offended if you go to the site to talk, you should know that people are uninitiated here, you can be a little more condescending
  11. Armata
    Armata 1 July 2013 15: 28 New
    -17
    Quote: aksakal
    Gentlemen, in fact, the first Naughty Mechanic. Bazi Forest asked for the order number in confirmation, he was simply boorishly answered - you want a lot!
    And what should I put the number of the order and the full text? Or maybe even the text of TK and the full CD to put on display? Even much you all want from the site. When allowed, then there will be an article about Armata.
  12. aksakal
    aksakal 1 July 2013 16: 08 New
    23
    Quote: Mechanic
    And what should I put the number of the order and the full text?

    No, it’s enough instead of “You want a lot!” reformulate "The order is secret, I can’t help with anything!". And there would be no useless argument. I about it.
  13. Denis
    Denis 1 July 2013 16: 36 New
    +4
    Quote: Mechanic
    When allowed, then there will be an article about Armata.
    Support!
    Glasnost publicity, but in moderation
    They began to forget the inscription on the phones secret negotiations are prohibited! Yes and a poster SOMETIMES still very relevant
  14. avensis
    avensis 1 July 2013 18: 09 New
    +5
    Aksakal correctly said to you, “Why not: unfortunately, the order is secret, because it will not be given to you! And that’s it! The conflict has been settled!” - and you immediately have your ambition and self-conceit!
    They spread an empty chatter on the floor of the site, just to measure their pussy.
  15. SPACE
    SPACE 1 July 2013 20: 41 New
    13
    Quote: aksakal
    Sorry and don’t be offended if you go to the site to talk, you should know that people here are uninitiated, you can be a little more condescending

    I support Aksakal, wisely! In general, sometimes it’s a lot of “authorities” on the site, it’s bursting with felts from involvement in some “events”, felts from their own significance in the eyes of others, but that one thing that the other cannot in principle is an indisputable sign of intelligence and knowledge knowledge itself was never the only main reason for showing respect for a person and recognition of his authority, just as recognition of merit by others cannot be evidence of this. Pride and arrogance can never be respected. It is not difficult for a truly smart / wise person to go down to a NORMAL explanation to the opponent, whoever he is, without anger and superiority, and especially without these flawed insults such as "stupid, urya, patreots, etc ...". In this regard, Asket and Kaptsov are most respected ... In short, it would be nice for some to think a little ... about their "backlashes", and those who support such "old friendships ..." should be more impartial ... In general, no offense ...
  16. viktorR
    viktorR 1 July 2013 18: 30 New
    18
    I want to offend anyone, but! This is not the first time an old-timer with epaulettes is somehow lenient about newcomers. I recall a recent story with a respected (still wink ) Waf, when he was openly rude to someone, and he was mercilessly neglected, even those posts when he was not rude in reply and gave arguments that were easier to give an answer than was excused. Now the Mechanic also gave a blunder, but it is clear that the man is a beginner, and that he does not know who the Mechanic is and that he knows a lot about armature. You could just tell him: so they say, and so I work there first-hand and I know firsthand ... I understand your indignation, but I will not provide evidence as a state secret ...

    I’m not trying to teach anyone to communicate, but I urge you to be tolerant of each other!

    PS Came out such a friendly fire))
  17. Vanek
    Vanek 1 July 2013 14: 13 New
    -8
    Quote: Basileus
    look at his epaulettes


    Shoulder straps here have nothing to do with it !!! Authority and respect. There is such a thing.
  18. Lopatov
    Lopatov 1 July 2013 14: 28 New
    +9
    And why then such a desperate minuscule?
  19. Armata
    Armata 1 July 2013 15: 05 New
    -19
    Quote: Basileus
    A person is not able to respond normally to a simple request for evidence,
    Your simple request is to contradict the laws of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation. So don’t let the boy over, I don’t want to sit.
  20. bazilio
    bazilio 1 July 2013 15: 56 New
    18
    Quote: Mechanic
    Your simple request is to contradict the laws of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation. So don’t let the boy over, I don’t want to sit.


    But doesn’t it contradict the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation to mention the secret order and its brief content “So the project was suspended by order of the Ministry of Defense”.
    Z.Y. "the laws of the Criminal Code." - there is no such thing. There may be norms or provisions of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation.
  21. Yarbay
    Yarbay 1 July 2013 16: 02 New
    +7
    Quote: bazilio
    Did I mention

    Can we talk about technology or about the girls of the policemen ???))))))))))
    It seems to me this conversation dragged on a little !!))
    with respect!
  22. bazilio
    bazilio 1 July 2013 16: 49 New
    21
    Quote: Yarbay

    Can we talk about technology or about the girls of the policemen ???))))))))))
    It seems to me this conversation dragged on a little !!))
    with respect!

    Dear Yarbai, I would love to. But then porridge was brewed. To be honest, Comrade Mechanic went too far. I understand that he is a wise man of experience, involved in the topic under discussion, he was watching on this site, but he still went too far. This familiarity "want a lot", etc.- why? why can’t you have a calm and constructive dialogue? By the way, I once again notice the manifestation, so to speak, hazing on the topvar)) Those who are "senior" older, begin to put pressure on the younger ones, and this is not always reasoned.
  23. Yarbay
    Yarbay 1 July 2013 16: 56 New
    -2
    Quote: bazilio
    Comrade Mechanic went too far. I understand that he is a wise person involved in the subject under discussion

    And quick-tempered, however, like me))))))))
  24. common man
    common man 1 July 2013 17: 25 New
    +7
    Sorry to interfere in your "multi-star" bickering, but I (personally) had the impression that MECHANICS was gnawing a deep resentment for stopping work on Armata. When you work a lot on something and it’s already starting to work out, but you’re a “bam”, it’s not (or so far) interesting to us. Hence the excessive aggressiveness.
  25. bazilio
    bazilio 2 July 2013 12: 48 New
    +1
    Quote: man in the street
    Sorry to interfere in your "multi-star" bickering, but I (personally) had the impression that MECHANICS is gnawing a deep resentment for stopping work on Armata

    It is possible, but still it does not give the right to behave rudely and to be rude.
  26. Armata
    Armata 1 July 2013 18: 15 New
    -2
    Quote: bazilio
    But doesn’t it contradict the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation to mention the secret order and its brief content “So the project was suspended by order of the Ministry of Defense”.
    Z.Y. "the laws of the Criminal Code." - there is no such thing. There may be norms or provisions of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation
    And what did I give out something secret? Or what am I now, as the owner of Lycilix hiding in Africa?
  27. bazilio
    bazilio 2 July 2013 10: 36 New
    +3
    Quote: Mechanic
    And what did I give out something secret?

    the beginning, the progress of implementation, the completion of work on classified projects, of which Armata is, this is disclosure. Maybe the topic of armata was a well-thought-out disa, and you informed many that the work was curtailed. How do you like this option. In addition, to inform the order number is a state secret, and the contents of this order to stop the rebar work is not a secret, so what?
  28. Armata
    Armata 1 July 2013 19: 21 New
    -15
    Quote: bazilio
    no such thing. There may be norms or provisions of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation.
    Yah? Norm on suspension of project financing. Well, or the provision on the suspension of project financing. He thought what he said? I am not a nationalist, but you had a poor education in Uzbekistan. Learn from the classics from Central Asia ......... (next mat)
  29. bazilio
    bazilio 2 July 2013 10: 52 New
    +9
    You know what, who gave you the right to contact me on you?
    It’s immediately obvious that you have the most mediocre idea of ​​jurisprudence.
    A code is a law of a codification nature, in which all or the bulk of the norms that regulate a specific area of ​​public relations in sufficient detail are united on the basis of common principles, in addition, the code and the law, as a type of regulatory legal act, have the same jurisprudence. force. Therefore, your phrase "provided for by the laws of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation" stands for "prescribed by laws of the Law of the Russian Federation on criminal liability." tautology is obtained.
    And lastly, justify your words about my poor education in Uzbekistan! And not as you are used to doing it at the kindergarten level, but with clear objective facts and arguments.
    Z.Y. I’ll figure out who I’m learning from myself, and you would learn good manners
  30. The gentleman
    The gentleman 2 July 2013 10: 56 New
    +4
    Vasily, that’s why you’re trying to explain to a person what law is. It’s obvious that a person did not study TGP and generally does not understand the essence of what was said. in addition, you, as a Russian, should notice the attitude towards you based on the flag that you relate to on the basis of your place of birth. Considering this factor, I consider it advisable to end the conversation and move on to a topic where the question of your belonging to that will not be raised again or another state.
    ps Dear Mechanic, believe me, those people who taught me and Vasily did not even dream of you. Therefore, be so kind as to choose words. All the same, teachers.
  31. bazilio
    bazilio 2 July 2013 12: 42 New
    +4
    Dear Timur. I agree with you that it is not advisable to conduct a discussion with the Mechanic, a person considers himself smart, educated (I do not argue, javascript: AddComplaint ('1294800',% 20'comments') is possible
    about the way it is), and the rest are stupid, makes loud statements, not bothering to justify them. In addition, there are no manners and culture of communication. Probably the mechanic primarily focuses on the stars on the epaulettes under the avatar.
    Quote: Gentleman
    in addition, you, as a Russian, should notice the attitude towards you based on the flag that you relate to on the basis of your place of birth. Considering this factor, I consider it advisable to end the conversation and move on to a topic where the question of your belonging to that will not be raised again or another state.

    Well, what can I say, as they always judge the people and the state based on their personal feelings (and not justified opinions), considering that Uzbekistan lives in the Stone Age. And of course, the national question is that indignation like “if Russian, why not in Russia” or “since not in Russia, then not Russian” will probably follow
    I apologize for the offtopic.
  32. viktorR
    viktorR 1 July 2013 18: 37 New
    +4
    Well, why so inflate? this is your “want a lot”, “boy”, “don’t be fooled” ... Why all this? It was simply impossible to say right away: I will not provide anything secretly.
  33. bazilio
    bazilio 2 July 2013 12: 53 New
    +1
    Quote: viktorR
    Well, why so inflate? this is your “want a lot”, “boy”, “don’t be fooled” ... Why all this?

    Comrades, who was the last time I read the rules of this site? Everyone began to forget about them.
    "The site is strictly prohibited:

    a) mate in any form (open and veiled), swearing curses; insult and threats against the opponent;
    b) inciting ethnic hatred. This also includes the use of such words and derivatives as: crest, india, Jew, USA, Bulbash, Talaponet, chock, khachik, Azerbaijani, cross-eyed, Raska (generally referring to Russia and Russianness in a derogatory form) and other similar turns of unnatural speech ; "
    It seems that they forgot about these rules, the rules are not respected.
  34. rolik
    rolik 1 July 2013 16: 32 New
    +7
    Quote: Basileus
    should I look at his epaulettes and lash myself with a scourge for such impudence?

    Do not take it closely)))) Sometimes epaulettes here and in life are two big differences)))) So that we do not get nervous and breathe evenly and deeply)))
    And let me give you a little advice.
    If you want to find out how things really are with Armata. Go to the Urals, talk there with the local guys (working at UVZ) in some sort of bar on a Friday day with a glass of beer. Turn from what will be told. It will be possible to conclude about the tank itself, when it will be made, and how it will ride.
    Lord !!!! They didn’t go to the door of my apartment in black people, after all that I just wrote belay
  35. Denis
    Denis 1 July 2013 16: 42 New
    +2
    Quote: rolik
    Lord !!!! They didn’t go to the door of my apartment in black people, after all that I just wrote
    Nobody will come for what is written, but you should have a beer
    The enemy, although he smiles and climbs friends, does not sleep
    Anyway, they didn’t become friends
  36. Armata
    Armata 1 July 2013 14: 02 New
    -7
    Quote: Basileus
    For what? A person writes something with a smart look, while not leading anything at all to his advantage. Why should I believe him? I already wrote - as soon as at least one of his words is confirmed - I will certainly apologize. In the meantime, not at all.
    Can you also lay out the drawings? request fool
  37. Basileus
    Basileus 1 July 2013 14: 05 New
    12
    I didn’t ask you about the drawings.
  38. Armata
    Armata 1 July 2013 14: 30 New
    -9
    Quote: Basileus
    I didn’t ask you about the drawings.
    What about? Likely that I admitted that the agent is Masad?
  39. Pimply
    Pimply 1 July 2013 15: 00 New
    23
    No need to take your laurels. Mossad agent is me 8)
  40. Armata
    Armata 1 July 2013 15: 07 New
    0
    Quote: Pimply
    No need to take your laurels. Mossad agent is me 8)

    Oh damn colleague. and most importantly the namesake laughing
  41. Alexander Romanov
    Alexander Romanov 1 July 2013 15: 15 New
    +2
    Quote: Mechanic
    Oh damn co-worker

    You seem to have been from the CIA a week ago wink Now you are already in the mossad what Mossad transfer is a promotion or demoted laughing
  42. rolik
    rolik 1 July 2013 16: 25 New
    +1
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    You seem to have been from the CIA a week ago. Now you are already in the mossad. Transferring to the mossad is a promotion or demoted

    This is an experience exchange sent))))))
  43. Pimply
    Pimply 1 July 2013 16: 25 New
    +2
    In Israel, everyone is sure that all men from Russia are named after Eugene, Sergey or Alex 8)
  44. Wedmak
    Wedmak 1 July 2013 16: 40 New
    0
    And I thought that beyond the hill of all Russians, they are called Ivanes and Boris. However, unexpectedly ... smile
  45. rolik
    rolik 1 July 2013 16: 52 New
    +3
    Quote: Wedmak
    And I thought that beyond the hill of all Russians, they’re called Ivan and Boris

    With the surname Chenkov, Pochenkov, Andropov)))))
  46. Pimply
    Pimply 1 July 2013 17: 13 New
    +1
    Not for a long time. 8) Dmitry still pops up
  47. mogus
    mogus 1 July 2013 16: 58 New
    +2
    For foreigners, our speech is harsh. Maybe they caress their ears, then lol
  48. Denis
    Denis 1 July 2013 17: 31 New
    0
    Quote: Pimply
    In Israel, everyone is sure that all men from Russia are named after Eugene, Sergey or Alex 8)
    Is that all right? What about ... a quarter of our former people(C) are they too?
  49. Pimply
    Pimply 1 July 2013 18: 22 New
    -1
    Well, are we in a circus or something? We will now conduct accurate statistics, who believes who is not? If you need it so much, I meant a high percentage of non-Russian-speaking Israelis who were primarily born in the country or moved to it at an early age. That's better?
  50. Denis
    Denis 1 July 2013 19: 21 New
    +2
    Quote: Pimply
    We will now conduct accurate statistics, who believes who is not?
    Why, especially since the lie is that statistics ...
    Just a song by V.S. Vysotsky by the way
  51. Pimply
    Pimply 1 July 2013 20: 48 New
    +2
    Can you clearly explain to me what you are talking about?
  52. Denis
    Denis 1 July 2013 21: 35 New
    +1
    Pimply
    Already silent. Just did not understand each other
  53. Yarbay
    Yarbay 1 July 2013 15: 12 New
    +9
    Quote: Pimply
    No need to take your laurels. Mossad agent is me 8)


    Yes Yes Yes))))))))
    I recall Zadornov’s monologue about a CIA agent)))


    “I, a foreign intelligence agent, John Kaif. Born on the instructions of the CIA. I am fluent in fourteen languages, telepathy, yoga and karate, Nanai wrestling, judo and judo after, I can seduce women from a distance I photograph with my left eye, in the right I show microfilms, spitting down helicopters and extinguish fires, shoot from any button, and from all four holes at once, I can cause earthquakes, tsunamis, and taxis with the force of my will.

    They shot me 16 times, drowned 32 times in the Atlantic Ocean. I stole 5 residents, 11 presidents, bit to death 47 border dogs. He set the horns of thirty-three shahs with their harems.

    But a year ago, I got my main and, unfortunately, the last task - to sneak into your country, transfer to a tram and, sitting under the guise of a young specialist, find out how many people work in the Research Institute of VTsYRCHERMETBREDBRAKMRAKSNABSTYTSbyt3AG
  54. Victor
    Victor 1 July 2013 15: 55 New
    +1
    Quote: Pimply
    No need to take your laurels. Mossad agent is me 8)

    Pimpled, sometimes I just have HUGE respect for you, despite the difference in views. That is what our people in Israel mean! hi
  55. Black
    Black 1 July 2013 18: 39 New
    +2
    Quote: Pimply
    No need to take your laurels. Mossad agent is me

    WELL!!!!!
    FIRST PLEASANT KOMENT !!!!
  56. kosmos44
    kosmos44 4 July 2013 06: 28 New
    +2
    Quote: Mechanic
    Justify, but not from the Internet. I wanted to call you a little-educated shaggy animal, which is scooped with info on the internet, but not. And if you don’t like it, leave the site (or weak?)


    Kindergarten - pants on the straps.
  57. Vanek
    Vanek 1 July 2013 13: 45 New
    -1
    Quote: Basileus
    Given the fact that a person is lying without hesitation, it is strange that he generally has some weight here.


    Well, at least we know him. But you are not here.
  58. Alexander Romanov
    Alexander Romanov 1 July 2013 14: 19 New
    +1
    Okay people, tie up to run over, a person on a new site, may not have moved in. What's what. Settles, reads komenty-remember.
  59. Vanek
    Vanek 1 July 2013 14: 21 New
    -7
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    Settles, reads komenty-remember.


    And she won’t apologize for the “fat troll”. Is it publicly naughty? No problem. But not like apologizing. ... I doubt that I will understand.
  60. cherkas.oe
    cherkas.oe 1 July 2013 22: 15 New
    -9
    Quote: Basileus
    we will send them to all questions of beginners and we will zaminusut!

    Of you, a novice, like a bullet from shit, you can see by style.
  61. cherkas.oe
    cherkas.oe 5 July 2013 00: 54 New
    0
    Quote: cherkas.oe
    Of you, a novice, like a bullet from shit, you can see by style.

    About this comment (-10) came from nowhere, which means that the team of "beginners" is working on the site. I remember. Moderators - Administrators, A-U-U. Pay attention to the organized groups of "beginners", otherwise they are already sick of it.
  • Armata
    Armata 1 July 2013 12: 22 New
    +3
    Quote: Yarbay
    And I know him as a person who loves his homeland and cheers for it with all his heart!
    Hi alibek. Don’t worry about those who “cheers on everything”, though she’s not always in chocolate.
    1. Yarbay
      Yarbay 1 July 2013 12: 27 New
      0
      Quote: Mechanic
      Hi alibek. Don’t worry about those who “cheers on everything”, though she’s not always in chocolate.

      Hello Eugene!
      Honestly, I was upset to hear from you this news!
      And about soaring, the person simply does not know you and therefore writes nonsense!
    2. uwzek
      uwzek 1 July 2013 17: 08 New
      +8
      Before you get angry, turn on your imagination ... UVZ is not a subdivision of Moscow Region, even super-secret orders of direct action at the factory do not have ... The only military men at the factory are customer representatives. Since there is no order for "fittings" yet - think for yourself ...
      And cars on this topic are being assembled, serious about some delays, I personally have not heard, they will be noticeably different from the previous ones, the rest is really a secret. Wait for the fall ...
    3. Armata
      Armata 1 July 2013 18: 23 New
      -2
      Quote: uwzek
      Since there is no order for "fittings" yet - think for yourself ...
      And cars on this topic are being assembled, serious about some delays, I personally have not heard, they will be noticeably different from the previous ones, the rest is really a secret. Wait for the fall ...
      Yah? And what are they going to? And where, if not on the goat’s path, is they experiencing? Maybe you live on Lining and saw a platform, and not T90 in a coloring for Hindus?
    4. Yarbay
      Yarbay 1 July 2013 18: 37 New
      +4
      Quote: Mechanic
      Maybe you live on Lining and saw a platform, not a T90 in a coloring for Hindus?

      And how did the tanks manage to rivet for us (Azerbaijan) ???
      All the same, it’s obvious that production production is still worse than that !!!))))))
  • Vanek
    Vanek 1 July 2013 13: 22 New
    +1
    Quote: Mechanic
    Don't worry


    Alexei, the one who wrote an article about ignoring not so long ago. Correctly wrote: - Ignore. ... No! I certainly do not urge to ignore ... but sometimes it is possible.

    Eugene. hi
  • kirieeleyson
    kirieeleyson 1 July 2013 17: 12 New
    0
    I will support with pleasure, Do not bully the Mechanics. This is not a mail site.
    1. Semen Semyonitch
      Semen Semyonitch 7 July 2013 22: 48 New
      +1
      hi
      Quote: kirieeleyson
      I will support with pleasure, Do not bully the Mechanics. This is not a mail site.

      Something is not clear, why is such a reaction inadequate? Is there an untouchable (indisputable) authority on the site that cannot be objected to? If a person has long been on the site and enjoys authority, this does not give him the right in such a familiar arrogant style to communicate with members of the forum. Moreover, Basileus was more correct in his statements. With all due respect to the Mechanic ...
  • Slevinst
    Slevinst 1 July 2013 12: 09 New
    +1
    if this mechanic is the mechanic about whom I know then you should not question his words, he works directly at UVZ and knows more than all of you together, it’s better not to rush
  • Pimply
    Pimply 1 July 2013 12: 48 New
    +1
    Respected. Do not try to be rude to a person who, firstly, most likely is much older than you, and, secondly, knows an order of magnitude more.
    1. Basileus
      Basileus 1 July 2013 12: 58 New
      12
      That's when there will be evidence of both of them, I will scatter in apology. In the meantime - nonsense.
      1. common man
        common man 1 July 2013 14: 01 New
        0
        Respected. What do you want to see a photocopy of the order signed by Shoigu?
    2. sashka
      sashka 1 July 2013 13: 17 New
      14
      Quote: Pimply
      Respected. Do not try to be rude to a person who, firstly, most likely is much older than you, and, secondly, knows an order of magnitude more.

      Not a FACT .. We, too, are not done with a finger .. Something we understand ..
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 1 July 2013 13: 19 New
        -3
        In some ways, this does not mean working directly with this particular tank.
      2. sashka
        sashka 1 July 2013 13: 29 New
        +3
        I do not have time .. Well, then look at the end ..
  • cdrt
    cdrt 1 July 2013 15: 05 New
    -3
    Hmm ... one knows, the other does not.
    Anyone who does not know requires him to prove something.
    Why waste time knowing?
    Those who understand who such a knowledgeer heard his words.
    The rest is the best way to simply stop responding to the lines of the unknowing.
    As if he weren’t wink
  • cdrt
    cdrt 1 July 2013 15: 00 New
    -1
    It seems like the Mechanic was a couple of orders more connected with the tank industry than you (judging by the track record on the site) ...
    1. Semen Semyonitch
      Semen Semyonitch 7 July 2013 22: 54 New
      +1
      Quote: cdrt
      It seems like the Mechanic was a couple of orders more connected with the tank industry than you (judging by the track record on the site) ...

      No one disputes his “connection with the tank industry” and competence in this topic. Talk about elementary mutual respect ...
  • rolik
    rolik 1 July 2013 12: 48 New
    +6
    Quote: Mechanic
    So that is the concept of "state secret"

    With this expression you can cover absolutely everything, any topic.
    1. max702
      max702 1 July 2013 13: 14 New
      11
      Totally agree with you! when I hear a state secret and secrecy there will read a mess and collapse! He himself was convinced of this many times, all allegedly sensitive data is provided to interested parties (a likely adversary) an order of magnitude earlier than in the press and others, the media, and leaks due to our corrupt bureaucrats do not occur from the pages of newspapers, but from the offices of controllers and others observers, and not in blurry form, but in specific numbers and data (no one needs pictures and blurred photos from the 19th century in the yard), well, we'll see a picture, so what? what are the conclusions from this? How will this affect the secrecy of the car? but if there is nothing or another craft (that at least something to show) then yes it turns out that "the king is naked!"
      1. Armata
        Armata 1 July 2013 13: 34 New
        +3
        Quote: max702
        I fully agree with you! when I hear a state secret and secrecy there will read a mess and collapse! He himself was convinced of this many times, all allegedly sensitive data is turned out to interested parties (a likely adversary)
        Yeah. At least once faced with access categories?
      2. uwzek
        uwzek 1 July 2013 17: 28 New
        +2
        But this topic shows the opposite, the privacy mode works well. I doubt very much that even interested parties have comprehensive data. Online - see for yourself.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • kirieeleyson
    kirieeleyson 1 July 2013 17: 10 New
    +1
    Greetings, Dear our Mechanic. What interesting thread will you tell, is it worth the wait or not? Something already tired of reading all the gnomes, every day is a new term. (((
  • cdrt
    cdrt 1 July 2013 14: 59 New
    +4
    we settle at UVZ for the head of the project team, get access and read the order wink So, at leisure, to satisfy idle curiosity ...
  • botsman-palych
    botsman-palych 4 July 2013 15: 01 New
    0
    On the Iraqwar website, a great expert, especially close to top secret, told the same thing for several years, only about the T-95.
    They were about to accept, almost drove himself ... Looks like he was working on a salary. bully
  • botsman-palych
    botsman-palych 4 July 2013 15: 05 New
    0
    On the Iraqwar website, a great expert, especially close to top secret, told the same thing for several years, only about the T-95.
    They were about to accept, almost drove himself ... Looks like he was working on a salary. bully
  • botsman-palych
    botsman-palych 4 July 2013 15: 05 New
    0
    On the Iraqwar website, a great expert, especially close to top secret, told the same thing for several years, only about the T-95.
    They were about to accept, almost drove himself ... Looks like he was working on a salary. bully
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 1 July 2013 12: 48 New
      +2
      And where does the fagot talk about the tank?
      1. rolik
        rolik 1 July 2013 13: 12 New
        0
        Quote: Pimply
        And where does the fagot talk about the tank?

        In this case, nothing to do with. But, there is one bearded joke:
        Two fagots are sitting in the war in the trench, with a grenade launcher in their hands. Suddenly a tank enters them. One says to the other:
        - Look, please, are there handsome boys on the tank ???
        the second peeps out of the trench, looks around, dives back into the trench and answers:
        - No. I didn’t see the beautiful ones, all evil and protivist.
        first to this:
        - AND!!!! Well then shoot dear.
        1. Prohor
          Prohor 1 July 2013 13: 22 New
          +2
          There is a continuation of this joke.
          The second tank was beautiful. And the commander, breaking away from the nail processing with a nail file, says: "Well, then very gently press the trigger!"
          ...........
          To illustrate this article, the question is: with this arrangement, the gun will have a declination angle at all?
          1. Kars
            Kars 1 July 2013 13: 27 New
            +2
            Quote: Prokhor
            To illustrate this article, the question is: with this arrangement, the gun will have a declination angle at all?

            If the turret is uninhabited, a sliding roof over the breech can be made. And the line of fire will be lifted. So, the landing gear itself may not depend much. But what kind of barrel will be, will the turret move to the stern?
            1. Armata
              Armata 1 July 2013 13: 44 New
              +3
              Quote: Kars
              But what will be the departure of the trunk, will the tower shift to the stern?
              It will shift, but I don’t know about the rest (yes, if they knew, you yourself understand)
          2. rolik
            rolik 1 July 2013 13: 38 New
            +1
            Quote: Prokhor
            There is a continuation of this joke.

            Now Pupyrchaty zaminusaet you))))) Someone has a topic about fagots such a stir laughing laughing laughing
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 1 July 2013 13: 42 New
              +2
              I rarely minus. Especially adequate comments.
              1. rolik
                rolik 1 July 2013 13: 49 New
                0
                Quote: Pimply
                I rarely minus. Especially adequate comments.

                Ok don't take close smile Just remembered a joke))))
                1. Pimply
                  Pimply 1 July 2013 13: 56 New
                  0
                  So a good joke. To this topic. I have no questions for him.
    2. cdrt
      cdrt 1 July 2013 15: 06 New
      +1
      We are discussing the Almaty project, it would seem, where are the fagots? wink
  • nnz226
    nnz226 1 July 2013 12: 33 New
    +3
    That's interesting, but what can be unique in tank building? T-34 became the prototype for the entire tank building industry, the only Merkavs are out of line in layout ... So what do they want to see uniqueness in? Motor in the tower ?! or cannon between the tracks? (So ​​the Swedes have it). How ALL MODERN TANKS differ from the prototype - T-34 ??? The filling is electronic, the armor is composite, and the protection is dynamic, and the caliber of the gun is more .... and so, no uniqueness, even though 73 of the year has passed since the prototype was released ...
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 1 July 2013 12: 44 New
      +4
      The layout may be unique. Yes, and geometric shapes can be such that even with minimal booking, the shell can go into rebound. You will not argue that the cars of formula 1 are not unique and come from the first Ford?
      1. rolik
        rolik 1 July 2013 13: 04 New
        +1
        Quote: Wedmak
        the shell can go into rebound.

        As long as I remember. After the adoption of cumulative shells, the angle of inclination of the armor ceased to be decisive in the tank. I apologize in advance, maybe I didn’t put it right.
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 1 July 2013 13: 13 New
          +2
          I have not in vain mentioned the minimum booking. DZ can hang on the armor, it will destroy the cumulative stream, and the inclined armor will not let BOPS penetrate behind the armor. The mass of options - I just gave an example.
          1. rolik
            rolik 1 July 2013 13: 47 New
            +1
            Quote: Wedmak
            DZ can hang on the armor

            And not only DZ, combined booking, rental towers.
            In general, it’s interesting to read this material about booking our tanks.
            http://btvt.narod.ru/4/armor.htm
        2. Prohor
          Prohor 1 July 2013 13: 29 New
          +1
          The inclination of the armor is not only a possibility of a rebound, but also an increase in the effective thickness of the armor, which is also unpleasant for a cumulative jet.
        3. Setrac
          Setrac 1 July 2013 16: 07 New
          +1
          Quote: rolik
          As long as I remember. After the adoption of cumulative shells, the angle of inclination of the armor ceased to be decisive in the tank. I apologize in advance, maybe I didn’t put it right.

          This is not the case, the matter is the ratio of the internal volume to the reservation area, in this indicator tanks with inclined armor are inferior to tanks with vertical armor.
          1. Prohor
            Prohor 1 July 2013 16: 29 New
            -1
            This indicator is a fiction. Pierce the foam sheet vertically standing and tilted at an angle of 60 degrees, and get a real figure.
            1. Setrac
              Setrac 1 July 2013 17: 24 New
              +1
              Quote: Prokhor
              This indicator is a fiction. Pierce the foam sheet vertically standing and tilted at an angle of 60 degrees, and get a real figure.

              Not everything is so simple, with the same mass of armor the vertical will be thicker (if measured perpendicular to the plane of the armor plate).
              1. Wedmak
                Wedmak 1 July 2013 17: 27 New
                +1
                with the same mass of armor, the vertical will be thicker (if measured perpendicular to the plane of the armor plate).

                Is that so? With the same weight and composition of the armor, the inclined armor will be thicker in the normal.
                1. Setrac
                  Setrac 1 July 2013 17: 42 New
                  0
                  Quote: Wedmak
                  Is that so? With the same weight and composition of the armor, the inclined armor will be thicker in the normal.

                  This, if you do not take into account the internal volume, with the same internal volume, the vertical armor will be thicker, since its area is smaller.
                  1. Wedmak
                    Wedmak 1 July 2013 17: 46 New
                    0
                    This is if you do not take into account the internal volume

                    And then I agree.
                    1. Setrac
                      Setrac 1 July 2013 17: 49 New
                      0
                      Quote: Wedmak
                      And then I agree.

                      Actually, I am not a supporter of vertical armor (considering that nothing depends on me smile ), there is simply such a SMALL advantage.
    2. Denis
      Denis 1 July 2013 14: 38 New
      +3
      Quote: nnz226
      How ALL MODERN TANKS differ from the prototype - T-34 ???
      The main difference is that the media of that time were going to release it, to put it mildly, not particularly spread
      True, he did not become worse from this
      The time will come and learn about this
    3. kotdavin4i
      kotdavin4i 1 July 2013 15: 54 New
      +3
      For that matter, it was not the T-34 but the French Renault FT-17, the first tank with a classic layout. 1. Department of management, 2. Combat, 3. Motor.
    4. maxvet
      maxvet 1 July 2013 16: 33 New
      0
      then probably not the t-34, but the Renault FT 17
  • rolik
    rolik 1 July 2013 12: 47 New
    +3
    [quote = alexdol] Given the pogrom of production and science that occurred after the collapse of the USSR, it is difficult to count on something UNIQUE, [/ quote
    A bit wrong. Given the pogrom and lack of money, it is difficult to expect something revolutionary from the Ukrainian industry. Old projects are being used, old models are being slowly upgraded. That's all. Russia has already begun to produce new products, and not just modernize old ones. In aviation, there is a new one, in the navy too, the Strategic Missile Forces are new, only the armored direction remains to be tightened. The only thing that is very annoying is a lot of talking. Instead of stirring the air with chatter, they did and showed. Secrecy? Where is it, this secrecy))))) It is said so much that even the Chinese, without seeing the tank, can copy, in appearance, the same.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • old man54
    old man54 1 July 2013 13: 56 New
    0
    Quote: alexdol
    Given the pogrom of production and science that occurred after the collapse of the USSR,

    comrade, if jealous, it is very constructive! In his writing, especially at the beginning of the post, there is a large share of truth that the patriots did not like. Why for the truth did they make a man cons?: ((Not in our opinion this ...
  • alexdol
    alexdol 1 July 2013 16: 37 New
    11
    So I look how many “minuses” I have earned, and it saddens me because I understand that people who put them have BIG problems with LOGIC THINKING !!!
    I myself am Russian, I live in present-day Ukraine, which was and will once again be, I hope, RUSSIA. Do you really think that I am opposed to creating something PRESENT in RUSSIA !!! It is created there, back in the Soviet era. And today it’s hard, but, fortunately, the work continues. Here in Ukraine - full Zh.O.P.A., all production is worth it. The authorities here are anti-people, enemy. But what I see in RUSSIA. One DAM is worth it! This is an outright ENEMY, but continues to remain in power ?! Now he is planning the next series of soap opera under the name "ACADEMSERVICE" which is consonant with the case of "defense service". If he continues to remain with the AUTHORITY, then about any “armatures”, etc. and there will be no speech! And President Putin is pulling with a solution to this issue, why? What does he not see and understand nothing? So you put your "cons" at the wrong address, I just feel ashamed for you!
    1. old man54
      old man54 1 July 2013 20: 43 New
      +1
      Quote: alexdol
      But what I see in RUSSIA. One DAM is worth it! This is an outright ENEMY, but continues to remain in power ?! ... And President Putin is pulling with a solution to this issue, why? What does he not see and understand nothing? So you put your "cons" at the wrong address, I just feel ashamed for you!

      Medvepusik (DAM), this is of course the one to attack, but by itself it is "0", believe me! His “king” is played by his retinue, all completely liberal. And the GDP ... yes, they are a berry with a medvepus iphone of the same field, but they just diverged a little, so their spread is not easy in different political camps today.
      We ourselves are often ashamed of ourselves, so what is it!
      1. Cynic
        Cynic 1 July 2013 20: 53 New
        0
        Quote: old man54
        Yes, they’re a berry as an iPhone-medvepsik of the same field, but they only diverged a little, so their spread is not easy in different political camps today.

        Beautifully, and most importantly, it is clearly stated _ One field of berries of different political camps!
    2. rolik
      rolik 1 July 2013 20: 51 New
      +1
      Quote: alexdol
      I am Russian myself, I live in today's Ukraine,

      I’m going to visit my dad in Bulgaria in August. And now, to be honest, the sphincter begins to shrink from the foreboding of driving through the "fraternal" Ukrainian territory. I’m starting to count in advance how much DAISES will have to unfasten, how many politely I have to send to the farm Cossacks of local and other "ecologists" who curl around the highway. Good car ride that way one last time. In Bulgaria itself we will buy a car, it’s easier, but there by plane or by train.
      Our traffic police are also not sugar, but not such brutal personalities.
  • Drummer
    Drummer 1 July 2013 19: 04 New
    +4
    There is no doubt. Given the huge PR value of the topic, secrecy can mean only one thing - there is nothing to show.
  • dustycat
    dustycat 1 July 2013 23: 48 New
    0
    If the main priority communication channel in it is an analog voice channel on P137M or an analogue - and something tells me that it will be so - then all the other "latest achievements" will be from the same area.
  • valokordin
    valokordin 2 July 2013 06: 26 New
    0
    Oh tremble .uk in NATO
    We will create our own tank Armata.
  • Nick
    Nick 7 July 2013 23: 16 New
    0
    Quote: alexdol
    Given the pogrom of production and science that occurred after the collapse of the USSR, it is difficult to count on something UNIQUE, because everything that continues to be created today is being done so far on the basis of the reserve left over after the UNION .;

    Basically, you are right, but judging by the number of minuses to your comment, many people really prick their eyes ...
  • Atrix
    Atrix 1 July 2013 07: 47 New
    10
    I. Sienko said that the Armata tank will not be demonstrated at the September exhibition of military equipment Russian Arms Expo in Nizhny Tagil. The reason for this is the secrecy of the project.

    Most likely it’s not a matter of secrecy, but of the fact that there is no living specimen in the metal, the T-50 won’t be shown to the public as soon as it appeared.
    We’ll eat up all the same that will finish Armata and in the near future will show her. And the main thing is that it would go into the normal series, and not as we are now developing new developments for a couple of pieces in the troops.
    1. klimpopov
      klimpopov 1 July 2013 09: 17 New
      +2
      That's just the point that they "saw" ...
    2. buzuke
      buzuke 1 July 2013 09: 26 New
      22
      not, before the T50 showed around him which round dances were not taken. many also said that there is not even any T50, the authorities are lying, the judges are bought, polymers are pr..ny. I think just some problems solve, so as not to publicly shame
    3. zvereok
      zvereok 1 July 2013 10: 41 New
      -2
      Quote: Atrix
      Most likely it’s not a matter of secrecy, but of the fact that there is no living specimen in the metal, the T-50 won’t be shown to the public as soon as it appeared.


      The T-50 show was dedicated to the State Duma and presidential elections.
      1. Bronis
        Bronis 1 July 2013 13: 42 New
        +3
        Quote: zvereok
        The T-50 show was dedicated to the State Duma and presidential elections.
        Does not converge in terms. T-50 - January 2010, Duma - December 2011, President - March 2012. Forgotten already.
        1. zvereok
          zvereok 2 July 2013 05: 07 New
          -1
          Everything converges, then spat on EP then, and it was urgent to correct the image. So, achievements began to roll in the year before the election and the plans were different, as if from a cornucopia.
    4. viktorR
      viktorR 1 July 2013 11: 34 New
      0
      Well, I don’t know, all the same, the T-50s showed when it first flew, and I think they could show the stats much earlier.
      1. Prohor
        Prohor 1 July 2013 13: 34 New
        0
        I am only 41, the main MBTs are the same age as me, so I can’t remember the conversations preceding their appearance. And they were generally in front of the T-72/80, Abrams, Leopard-2, before taking them into service?
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 1 July 2013 13: 52 New
          0
          The first MBT, if memory serves, was the T-54/55. Just the strands lived out their last days.
          1. Setrac
            Setrac 1 July 2013 16: 14 New
            +1
            Probably the first MBT was the T-64A
            1. Wedmak
              Wedmak 1 July 2013 16: 18 New
              0
              Watching how to watch. By name, yes, the first, by mass and TTX, perhaps he became the first.
      2. Setrac
        Setrac 1 July 2013 16: 13 New
        +1
        Quote: viktorR
        Well, I don’t know, all the same, the T-50s showed when it first flew, and I think they could show the stats much earlier.

        It is difficult to hide the flying car, and probably we will see the armature when it is sent to the training ground.
        1. bddrus
          bddrus 1 July 2013 18: 20 New
          +3
          phew, I really thought Armata will see when she flies too! laughing
    5. rolik
      rolik 1 July 2013 12: 53 New
      +3
      Quote: Atrix
      Most likely it’s not a matter of secrecy, but of the fact that there is no living sample in the “metal”,

      That's it, they did not meet the deadlines ... that's the whole story. And since they loudly reported that now ... engine noise was already heard. That had to be worked out back, and nothing more “reinforced concrete” was invented.
      Where he flashed infa that did not have time because of the optics. Ours could not cope on time and this segment was given to Belarusians.
      And here, I found)))))
      We planned to show the tank based on the Armat already in operation, but by September it will not be ready. There are serious problems with the fire control system. Russian suppliers of optics can not cope. Now we are considering the option of switching this contract to the Belarusian company Peleng, they made a fire control system for the T-90S tank, which we are now actively exhibiting, and they have proposals for Armata. This was said by an unnamed representative in the Moscow Region.
      Something like that. And again about secrecy. What kind of secrecy is it when a super duper secret project helps to do the second side ???? Or is this a new concept of secrecy. No, Belarusians are reliable guys, they know how to keep their mouths better than ours. The very principle of secrecy, as suchalready violated, in this case. That's all.
    6. cdrt
      cdrt 1 July 2013 15: 11 New
      0
      Mnda ... Khlopotov was probably right - taking into account the failure of 199X and 200X - they probably would have taken a new wagon, engine, transmission and glued the T-90MS tower to it.
      At least there would already be a result.
  • Beibit
    Beibit 1 July 2013 07: 52 New
    11
    Ehhh ... we would have Kazakhstan such tanks as T-90С units 500 and Armature units 500, as well as 50-100 units Su-35С, SAM S-400 100 regiments. Shell of pieces 50. Iskander 20 regiments. BMD-4 pieces of 500. BTR-82A pieces of 1000. Tigers Pieces 1000. Msta-S pieces 300. MLRS Tornado, City of pieces 150 Teminator pieces 50. TOROV M2 pieces 50. Ka-52 pieces of 50 and MiNUMX-H pieces of 28 At least ... probably enough for a start =) I wonder how much will it cost us ???
    1. Atrix
      Atrix 1 July 2013 07: 58 New
      18
      Quote: Beibit
      Ehhh ... we would have Kazakhstan such tanks as T-90С units 500 and Armature units 500, as well as 50-100 units Su-35С, SAM S-400 100 regiments. Shell of pieces 50. Iskander 20 regiments. BMD-4 pieces of 500. BTR-82A pieces of 1000. Tigers Pieces 1000. Msta-S pieces 300. MLRS Tornado, City of pieces 150 Teminator pieces 50. TOROV M2 pieces 50. Ka-52 pieces of 50 and MiNUMX-H pieces of 28 At least ... probably enough for a start =) I wonder how much will it cost us ???

      First you ask if so much technology in Russia smile
    2. erased
      erased 1 July 2013 08: 07 New
      0
      Need a technique? Do it yourself. At the same time, you will develop industry.
      1. Basileus
        Basileus 1 July 2013 08: 22 New
        0
        Need a car? Do it yourself, at the same time and pump skill. It doesn’t matter that it will look a little better than the work of Karl Benz - but his own.

        Only the most developed states that have developed the production of military equipment and the design school since the advent of this same equipment can build themselves. Kazakhstan is not capable of it.
        1. Beibit
          Beibit 1 July 2013 09: 02 New
          +2
          if you take it with your mind, it’s only a matter of time ...
          1. Basileus
            Basileus 1 July 2013 09: 06 New
            +8
            We need to grow personnel, we must build a design school. We need to build factories in the end. That it is a matter of time and considerable money, no one argues. But how much time and money will be needed and when they will pay off is another question.
            1. flint1309
              flint1309 1 July 2013 21: 27 New
              0
              Alternatively, invite the Chinese laughing
        2. Pimply
          Pimply 1 July 2013 12: 50 New
          +1
          Oh how. Hare attempts to progress then.
    3. Alexander-Tomsk
      Alexander-Tomsk 1 July 2013 08: 25 New
      +6
      Quote: Beibit
      Ehhh ... we would like to Kazakhstan such tanks as T-90S pieces of 500 and Armata pieces of 500, as well as 50-100 pieces of Su-35S, S-400 air defense systems of 100 regiments. Shell pieces 50. Iskander 20 regiments. BMD-4 pieces 500. BTR-82A pieces 1000. Tigers Piece 1000. Msta-S pieces 300. MLRS Tornado, Grad pieces 150 Teminator pieces 50. TOROV M2 pieces 50. Ka-52 pieces 50 and Mi28-H pieces 100 At least ... probably enough for a start =)


      Are you going to fight with someone? To start... laughing I remembered a joke about greed. laughing Okay, plus for supporting a domestic manufacturer wink
      1. Beibit
        Beibit 1 July 2013 09: 06 New
        19
        Well, look ... did Syria, Libya, etc. etc. wanted to fight with someone? no, they had to ... there is no guarantee that we won’t have to ... we all know what is happening ... what is going on ... so, as they say "We need Fedya, I need ..."
        1. ale-x
          ale-x 1 July 2013 11: 24 New
          +1
          I convinced .... Motivation is visible.
        2. Evrepid
          Evrepid 5 July 2013 13: 45 New
          0
          Have the CSTO already ruined everything?
          In the CSTO of the Chinese the sea, our equipment is enough.
          Stop fighting off if that.
      2. buzuke
        buzuke 1 July 2013 09: 29 New
        +4
        don’t tell me, it can also gurgle among the Kazakhs in the south. especially if the comrade with the State Department will help
      3. Setrac
        Setrac 1 July 2013 16: 22 New
        +1
        Quote: Alexander-Tomsk
        Are you going to fight with someone?

        After joining the Customs Union of Iran (if such an event takes place) The question will arise of establishing order in Afghanistan.
    4. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 1 July 2013 08: 31 New
      10
      Quote: Beibit
      Ehhh ... we would have Kazakhstan such tanks as T-90S pieces of 500 and Armata pieces of 500, as well as 50-100 pieces of Su-35S, S-400 air defense systems of 100 regiments. Shell pieces 50. Iskander 20 regiments. BMD-4 pieces 500. BTR-82A pieces 1000. Tigers Piece 1000. Msta-S pieces 300. MLRS Tornado, Grad pieces 150 Teminator pieces 50. TOROV M2 pieces 50. Ka-52 pieces 50 and Mi28-H pieces 100

      I don’t know how much it will cost, but personally to you as a gift lol
      1. aksakal
        aksakal 1 July 2013 16: 39 New
        +3
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        I don’t know how much it will cost, but personally to you as a gift
        - give it in the "real" - it will not rust behind us. Already, as it were, there are insults that Kazakhstan began assembling the light Eurocopter military helicopter, such as, "But why didn’t it work with the KA-226 (I can be wrong)?" Well, since hand this unit that you have in the post, so no question. "Aselsan" and "Otokar" graze in Kazakhstan, vying with their "Altai" offer ... I agree, not the best tank, but not the worst. The Germans are there, and the Israelis had a hand in the development of this tank, and even the Koreans handed over their achievements, you can kill yourself with such a tank. Across the spectrum, everything is similar. Therefore, lip-sewing machines do not scatter much - they can come back.
        About developing your industry is good advice. This is what they do in Kazakhstan. There is already a tank repair plant in Semey. It is already carrying out tank modernization on its own - you have already seen a couple of pictures - when all the T-72 tank upgrades were posted on the site, there were a couple of not the worst upgrades from Kazakhstan. But you also need to be realistic - even within the framework of only armored vehicles, Kazakhstan will never be able to release or master the whole spectrum of what is present in a modern tank. It’s not even within Russia’s power - from a good life, part of the development of Armata was transferred to Belarus? In general, I am silent about going beyond the scope of armored vehicles. So, to the best of our ability, factories will be built in Kazakhstan and industry will develop. But this business is not even ten years old.
        According to the spectrum - what Beibut dreams of ... He laughed a little.

        Quote: Beibit
        we would like to Kazakhstan such tanks as T-90S pieces of 500 and Armata pieces of 500, as well as 50-100 pieces of Su-35S, S-400 air defense systems of 100 regiments. Shell pieces 50. Iskander 20 regiments. BMD-4 pieces 500. BTR-82A pieces 1000. Tigers Piece 1000. Msta-S pieces 300. MLRS Tornado, Grad pieces 150 Teminator pieces 50. TOROV M2 pieces 50. Ka-52 pieces 50 and Mi28-H pieces 100 At least ... for starters, probably enough =) I wonder how much it will cost us ???
        - really, it still will not help to defend against China, neighbors to the south generally have no armed forces ... Taliban? So against them it is all unnecessary. The Taliban will work either in the mountains (as in the attack on Kyrgyzstan by Juma Namangoni) or in the city. Why then all the expensive outrage? Instead, the SU-35S will be in the very theme of "Super Tukano" from Brazil, on the screw. Chinese highland tanks would be out of place, and tanks adapted for urban battles. UAVs need a lot. Beibut did not even mention them. We need good means of close combat (WBB) - and Beibut again did not mention them. Four hundred how much do we need? The latest modifications of the S-300 type Antei and Vityaz are both cheaper at times, and in terms of efficiency they are no worse. And so many regiments are not needed, two times less. Su-35S fighter why do we need? Recent modifications of the MiG-29 to the topic itself. And it is good to modernize the MiG-31 and SU-27 available in Kazakhstan, according to the latest technology, and together these are sufficient air forces for small Kazakhstan. That's just for Terminators and attack helicopters I agree. And then I would modify them, these Terminators. Why buy the Shell, if you can put a radar in the Terminator and train a crew of five in operation both in tank support mode and in military air defense mode? There, you just need to modify the Cornets so that they could hit air targets (it flashed somewhere that the Cornets knew how, and have been able for a long time) and integrate detection, tracking and target designation tools from the same Shell into the Terminator’s side. Then we don’t need Ptsier either.
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 1 July 2013 16: 51 New
          0
          Why buy the Shell, if you can put a radar in the Terminator and train a crew of five in operation both in tank support mode and in military air defense mode

          Question: so if all this is screwed, you will get the same Shell. But, it is possible with worse performance characteristics both on the ground and in the air. Yes, and heavy. Do you need it?
          1. aksakal
            aksakal 1 July 2013 18: 01 New
            0
            Quote: Wedmak
            Yes, and heavy
            - so on a heavy armored platform, already heavy by definition.

            Quote: Wedmak
            But, it is possible with worse performance characteristics both on the ground and in the air.
            - well, I just don’t see the reasons here
            such a modified Terminator is worse than the Shell in the air and worse than itself on the ground. By the way, it is precisely the current Shell armor that is not praised right now, like it works poorly on maneuvering targets, but Cornets are better in this regard. According to the guns - the same thing there - all the same Tula in the authors, the same Gryazev and Shipunov. I did not see the reasons. But the support of tanks with such a refinement can really become a full-fledged SUPPORT OF TANKS, even from an air attack.
            1. Wedmak
              Wedmak 1 July 2013 18: 51 New
              0
              Well, I just don’t see the reasons here
              such a modified Terminator is worse than the Shell in the air and worse than itself on the ground.

              If everything was so simple, I do not think that they would bother with the division into anti-aircraft missiles and anti-tank ones. Cannons are guns, and rockets are a very effective tool.
              1. aksakal
                aksakal 1 July 2013 20: 24 New
                0
                Quote: Wedmak
                If everything was so simple, I do not think that they would bother with the division into anti-aircraft missiles and anti-tank ones. Cannons are guns, and rockets are a very effective tool.
                - I think there are reasons for bothering, and it is commonplace - grandmothers ... Why don't the Ministry of Defense put in two positions, although it is possible to combine everything in one position? Of course, it’s ugly to suspect the Tula people, but they need to feed thousands of workers, so I'm not in a hurry to condemn them, but I would not be in a hurry to buy Terminators + shells in separate bottles. As for the separation of missiles into anti-aircraft and anti-tank, here is the link: http://vpk.name/news/92313_kornetem_predstavyat_na_rae2013.html. Is it a lie or an exaggeration? An excellent universal thing turned out, IMHO. If so, then on the site of the Ministry of Defense of Kazakhstan, I would still ask to finalize the Terminators in this vein, and the Armor ... Armor is a good thing, I admire it, but pragmatism is pragmatism, Armor is not needed in the terminators, or we need to a small amount for some special tasks. As a military air defense for the tasks of directly covering tank and other columns from attack by helicopters and attack aircraft, and even cruise missiles, these modified Terminators will also go. When installing these Cornets on these machines, that http://vpk.name/news/92313_kornetem_predstavyat_na_rae2013.html you can only install equipment in terms of radar and target designation, many of whose units can also be unified without a loss of combat properties - and Shell especially not needed. IMHO
                1. Wedmak
                  Wedmak 1 July 2013 20: 41 New
                  0
                  Is it a lie or an exaggeration?

                  Yet doubts torment me. To defeat the tank, either BOPS, or the cumulative stream, or a combination of them is used. To destroy air targets - mostly fragmentation (or high-explosive / fragmentation) ammunition. Did different rockets be made at Cornet-EM? Honor and praise if so.
                  Guns ... will there be enough rate of fire and tracking speed for Terminator guns to hit an air target?
                  Why do not the Ministry of Defense vparit two positions, although it is possible to combine everything in one position?

                  But wouldn't it be more economical to have one universal system than two different ones? Let this system cost as two different ones - what a saving on spare parts! But after all - they share.
                  And yet, the dimensions and mobility of such a universal system? Not small I suppose will be.
                  1. aksakal
                    aksakal 1 July 2013 22: 16 New
                    0
                    Quote: Wedmak
                    To defeat the tank, either BOPS, or the cumulative stream, or a combination of them is used. To destroy air targets - mostly fragmentation (or high-explosive / fragmentation) ammunition. Did different rockets be made at Cornet-EM?
                    - I think the missile is single, but the warheads are different, when firing the main thing is not to confuse sending a missile from the tandem warhead (anti-tank) against the helicopter, namely with the desired anti-helicopter warhead. As far as I read, there is a cloud of warheads, there are even thermobaric ones.
                    Quote: Wedmak
                    But wouldn't it be more economical to have one universal system than two different ones?

                    MO as a consumer and an operator is more profitable. But Tula - here's the question. The carapace is released by one site, where the supervising director and the general designer - their own, according to the Terminator - another production site, and there also has its own established staff with its ambitions. The combination of Terminator and Carapace in one bottle means that someone will become subordinate to someone (and this is wounded ambition), and in general this may smell like a reduction in personnel - well, if not for workers, then design engineers for sure. Therefore, to rest and declare that combining into one bottle is "technically impossible" - this is normal, I would do the same, no question. Another thing is that here we are, having an indirect relation to this particular technique, but still having a technical background and working with the technique, nevertheless we realize that it is possible and even necessary to finalize the Terminator. Of course, there are technical difficulties - and the integration of radio technical lotions, to put all this in a cramped tank body, and to modify a couple of 30 mm cannons - all this is there, but these are not so straightforward such unsolvable difficulties, the more so for the Tula - it’s something for them professionalism and ingenuity not to occupy!
                2. Bad_gr
                  Bad_gr 2 July 2013 12: 08 New
                  0
                  Quote: aksakal
                  Why do not the Ministry of Defense vparit two positions, although it is possible to combine everything in one position?

                  Tanks and self-propelled guns are very similar: both there and there is an armored tracked platform with a gun. Instead of releasing just one thing, they split the MO into two positions?
    5. ed65b
      ed65b 1 July 2013 10: 04 New
      +1
      Quote: Beibit
      Ehhh ... we would have Kazakhstan such tanks as T-90С units 500 and Armature units 500, as well as 50-100 units Su-35С, SAM S-400 100 regiments. Shell of pieces 50. Iskander 20 regiments. BMD-4 pieces of 500. BTR-82A pieces of 1000. Tigers Pieces 1000. Msta-S pieces 300. MLRS Tornado, City of pieces 150 Teminator pieces 50. TOROV M2 pieces 50. Ka-52 pieces of 50 and MiNUMX-H pieces of 28 At least ... probably enough for a start =) I wonder how much will it cost us ???

      Who are the Kazakh brothers going to fight with ???
      1. Beibit
        Beibit 1 July 2013 10: 18 New
        +5
        we’re not going to fight with anyone ... so ... just in case ...
        1. antibanukurayza
          antibanukurayza 1 July 2013 10: 54 New
          +4
          Yes, it would be nice ... Our equipment is in bulk, but it is aging, it does not meet modern requirements. I would not mind placing several Iskanders with us, so that the Dragon does not lick its lips and the Americas do not decide to place their bases under our side
          1. Yarbay
            Yarbay 1 July 2013 13: 07 New
            +3
            Quote: antibanukuraza
            I would not mind placing several Iskanders with us,


            A few is how much ???
            Do you seriously think that having a pair of Iskanders means solving the problem with licking! ??
            this is not serious!
        2. rolik
          rolik 1 July 2013 13: 15 New
          +1
          Quote: Beibit
          . so ... just in case ..

          Stock, pocket does not pull)))))
      2. Pimply
        Pimply 1 July 2013 12: 50 New
        +3
        The Kazakhs have China on their side for a minute.
        1. max702
          max702 1 July 2013 14: 23 New
          +3
          For a moment, even the USSR did not plan to fight with China without the use of nuclear weapons.
          1. aksakal
            aksakal 1 July 2013 20: 34 New
            0
            Quote: max702
            For a moment, even the USSR did not plan to fight with China without the use of nuclear weapons.
            - with China, this whole set is only to inflict good losses, but this set will not be able to stop the occupation. So Max702 is right. But the funny thing is not even that. There are only 200 thousand troops in Kazakhstan, this whole set requires good professionals, who simply have nowhere to take in 200 thousand troops. This is all a very complicated technique, especially the SU-35S and S-400, and all the rest - you won’t come from the street and you won’t fight such a thing ... I posted it above, where the Witcher argued a bit, I think a different set would be more optimal, It would be better to respond to real threats, would be much cheaper and not require so many high professionals.
      3. dustycat
        dustycat 1 July 2013 23: 54 New
        0
        With Romanians, of course. In 2004, they squeezed out the gas-bearing region of the Black Sea with the island.
    6. ale-x
      ale-x 1 July 2013 11: 23 New
      0
      This is not interesting .... Why do you need all this ????????
    7. ziqzaq
      ziqzaq 1 July 2013 11: 26 New
      +6
      Quote: Beibit
      Ehhh ... we would have Kazakhstan such tanks as T-90С units 500 and Armature units 500, as well as 50-100 units Su-35С, SAM S-400 100 regiments. Shell of pieces 50. Iskander 20 regiments. BMD-4 pieces of 500. BTR-82A pieces of 1000. Tigers Pieces 1000. Msta-S pieces 300. MLRS Tornado, City of pieces 150 Teminator pieces 50. TOROV M2 pieces 50. Ka-52 pieces of 50 and MiNUMX-H pieces of 28 At least ... probably enough for a start =) I wonder how much will it cost us ???

      Both Kazakhstan and Russia are members of the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO), so if anyone pokes their head in questions with military assistance there will not be. We’ll fight off shoulder to shoulder, as it was more than once ......
      1. ed65b
        ed65b 1 July 2013 11: 33 New
        +4
        Odkb ??? And how did Odkb and our allies actually help us ??? Abkhazib and Ossetia were not recognized. Everywhere they are silent. In the event of a war with Azerbaijan, Armenia will not be shaken. We’ll have to figure it out ourselves. In general, hiding behind the CST just sit behind our backs.
      2. Check
        Check 1 July 2013 13: 41 New
        +1
        I agree, besides, the Kazakh people are not shaky, there were plenty of heroes in the WWII.
    8. KG_patriot_last
      KG_patriot_last 1 July 2013 11: 47 New
      0
      Terminators and BMP take more fellow
    9. Prohor
      Prohor 1 July 2013 13: 37 New
      0
      Where do you need such passion ?! belay
      For the Golden Horde?
    10. Yarbay
      Yarbay 1 July 2013 14: 30 New
      +7
      Quote: Beibit
      Exhh ... we would Kazakhstan


      You forgot about Tornado and not enough tanks))))))
      And in general, now no one in a single-breasted one is at war))))))))))



    11. Kasym
      Kasym 1 July 2013 20: 12 New
      +3
      Beibut, good evening, countryman! First of all, I would think about consumables - cartridges and shells. Not high precision, but ordinary. We need these productions up to the neck. Wars are fleeting now. While you pull up with Russia, but deliver it to parts, it’s probably already to deliver some.
      And from your list, I would do an attack on the Air Force and Air Defense. And, for example, tanks y of us modernized T-72 980 pieces. , almost everything on the go. And 4 more in storage. So this good enough until Armata appears. Of these, by the way, or more correctly based on them, Terminators and Byratins will do. Sincerely. hi
  • erased
    erased 1 July 2013 08: 03 New
    +7
    at a single tank building enterprise can ...

    That's what really bothers. One factory for the whole country !! And how many cars can he produce per month? Year? Yes, now there is no need to do 2500 per month, as it was during the Great War! But if you need to expand production - will Uralvagonzavod cope? But to open a new production in time pressure will now be a hundred times more difficult than then! Yes, and may not have time to open the second.
    It’s sad ... One, even two tank factories, is still not enough.
    1. Yun Klob
      Yun Klob 1 July 2013 08: 20 New
      +1
      Very, very true said.
    2. Basileus
      Basileus 1 July 2013 08: 24 New
      +1
      The only KB. There are Omsk residents, whose design bureau has failed, but the plant is still standing. Yes, it has recently been announced that KBTM ceases to design armored vehicles, but is still able to produce its plant.
      1. Armata
        Armata 1 July 2013 12: 01 New
        +1
        Quote: Basileus
        There are Omsk residents, whose design bureau has failed, but the plant is still standing.
        And what does the design bureau and the factory do? Well, if you are very competent, you will answer.
        1. Basileus
          Basileus 1 July 2013 12: 08 New
          +5
          It is better to look at the KBTM site itself) Specifically for tanks, as far as I know, they are now engaged in repairs. In general, the news recently slipped that KBTM ceases to develop armored vehicles - such work is being transferred to UVZ.
          1. Armata
            Armata 1 July 2013 13: 12 New
            -3
            Quote: Basileus
            Better to look at the site of KBTM itself
            Well, he himself admitted. Repair, modernization. This is what they are doing.
            1. Basileus
              Basileus 1 July 2013 13: 34 New
              +3
              Until UVZ did not take over the domestic tank building, there they were produced and developed.
              1. Armata
                Armata 1 July 2013 13: 51 New
                +4
                Quote: Basileus
                Until UVZ did not take over the domestic tank building, there they were produced and developed.
                Well, they did. Only (if he lived in the USSR) how much was produced at UVZ and how much in Ukraine and in Omsk? So it’s nothing that Tagil has a world record, with 41-12 they released 130000 tanks. No country in the world has been able to do so much in the same period as one city.
                1. Basileus
                  Basileus 1 July 2013 14: 25 New
                  +1
                  Wartime is not an indicator at all. But peacetime is really worth a look.
                  1. Armata
                    Armata 1 July 2013 15: 12 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Basileus
                    Wartime is not an indicator at all. But peacetime is really worth a look.
                    And how many factories in Tagil were producing T34?
        2. uwzek
          uwzek 1 July 2013 17: 48 New
          +3
          The Omsk plant has long been a division of UVZ (otherwise it would not have existed). There is just a design bureau, but no factory. The plant is engineers, workers, equipment ... In dashing years, everything is pumped up ...
    3. buzuke
      buzuke 1 July 2013 09: 39 New
      +3
      Omsk plant immediately comes to mind. stabbed such an enterprise ...
      1. Basileus
        Basileus 1 July 2013 09: 53 New
        +1
        Yes, the strange decision is to make the UVZ monopoly with their T-72, which they barely brought to the level of T-80, instead of making the main design bureaus exactly the Leningrad and Omsk - the real locomotives of the industry.
        1. Armata
          Armata 1 July 2013 11: 39 New
          -1
          Quote: Basileus
          Yeah, the strange decision is to make UVZ a monopolist with their T-72, which they barely brought to the level of T-80,
          Yah? Well, smart tell me how T80, modify to "Slingshot"? So these are two different tanks. And T80 were delivered only to the European part. They could not grab desert dust in their throats.
          1. Basileus
            Basileus 1 July 2013 11: 48 New
            +3
            And what does the "Slingshot" have to do with it? This name T-72B2. In general, the T-80 is slowly being withdrawn from the Armed Forces, why should it be modified.
            1. Kars
              Kars 1 July 2013 11: 51 New
              +3
              Quote: Mechanic
              Well, smart tell me how the T80 is modified to "Slingshot"?

              Well, I don’t know, put on the T-80U gun A82 FCS to hang up.
              Quote: Mechanic
              And T80s were delivered only to the European part. They couldn't grab the dust of deserts in their throats

              Now Kazakhstan is operating the T-80 in a desert area, and it seems normal.
              1. Armata
                Armata 1 July 2013 12: 05 New
                +1
                Quote: Kars
                Now Kazakhstan is operating the T-80 in a desert area, and it seems normal.
                And how do gas turbines feel?
                1. Kars
                  Kars 1 July 2013 12: 15 New
                  +6
                  Quote: Mechanic
                  And how do gas turbines feel?

                  So the fact of the matter is that it is good. Otherwise they would not have traveled.
              2. Kasym
                Kasym 1 July 2013 20: 29 New
                +3
                Hi, CARS! Somehow intersect! I have not heard about the T-80 in Kazakhstan. We weren’t there, if there is such information, it would be interesting. The mechanic writes correctly, in our region only diesel. T-80 y us were only on trials. Our climate is not very good - there is a lot of dust. Y us T-72, I’m poorly versed in the initials, but in my opinion B. Modernized y us, in Semipalatensk. In storage there are, in my opinion, T-62 and T-72.
            2. Armata
              Armata 1 July 2013 12: 04 New
              +2
              Quote: Basileus
              And what does the "Slingshot" have to do with it? This is the name T-72B2. In general, the T-80 is slowly being withdrawn from the Armed Forces, why should it be modified.
              Yes, I’m sorry, it was T72 who wanted to modify the slingshot, sorry, sorry lads.
            3. uwzek
              uwzek 1 July 2013 18: 01 New
              +3
              The “Slingshot” is just one of the tank’s defense systems, has long been outdated, and has never been adopted. T-80 is therefore withdrawn from the Armed Forces because there is nowhere to repair it. They brought them to our factory, but the armored hulls are very different, but Omsk did not provide equipment at that time - it was possible that they were handed over for scrap. And now in Omsk, the T-72 is being upgraded ...
              1. Armata
                Armata 1 July 2013 18: 31 New
                +1
                Quote: uwzek
                Slingshot "- just one of the tank’s protection systems, has long been outdated, and has never been put into service. The T-80 is therefore withdrawn from the Armed Forces because there is nowhere to repair it. They were brought to our factory, but the armored hulls are very different, and Omsk didn’t provide any equipment at that time - maybe they turned it into scrap metal, but now in Omsk the T-72 will be modernized ...
                thank you dear. Finally, someone can explain to everyone what is happening at UVZ. good drinks
              2. Cynic
                Cynic 1 July 2013 18: 53 New
                0
                Quote: uwzek
                and Omsk did not provide snap

                Sent in due time with a tower, sent and now.
                lol
          2. Zhaman-Urus
            Zhaman-Urus 1 July 2013 12: 36 New
            +5
            Tell me, is rudeness to the interlocutor your style on the site, or in general in life?
            1. Armata
              Armata 1 July 2013 13: 14 New
              0
              Quote: Zhaman-Urus
              Tell me, is rudeness to the interlocutor your style on the site, or in general in life?
              Who is this for? If in my account, then I'm sorry that I offended your feelings.
              1. Zhaman-Urus
                Zhaman-Urus 1 July 2013 18: 07 New
                +2
                "You are angry Caesar, then you are wrong" Do not forget about it during the DISCUSSION, dear Mechanic)
          3. old man54
            old man54 1 July 2013 14: 25 New
            -1
            Quote: Mechanic
            And T80 were delivered only to the European part. They could not grab desert dust in their throats.

            I'm certainly not quite in the subject, how do you look like, but what about the T-80 tests in the Indian deserts (as claimed), which they supposedly passed there perfectly ??
          4. Cynic
            Cynic 1 July 2013 18: 16 New
            -1
            Quote: Mechanic
            They could not grab desert dust in their throats.

            Do you actually know that in 80s to say that?
            belay
            1. Cynic
              Cynic 2 July 2013 19: 58 New
              0
              -1

              For connoisseurs
              For the Russian T-80U, the problem of air purification for the engine was solved in an original way - by installing an air intake device (VZU).

              More
              http://www.plam.ru/transportavi/osnovnoi_boevoi_tank_t_80/p3.php#metkadoc4
    4. Armata
      Armata 1 July 2013 13: 46 New
      +1
      Quote: erased
      That's what really bothers. One factory for the whole country !! And how many cars can he produce per month?
      Formerly 200 tanks per month, now 15-20. But cars from 100.
      1. Vanek
        Vanek 1 July 2013 14: 27 New
        +1
        Quote: Mechanic
        But cars from 100.


        That's how we live...
      2. uwzek
        uwzek 1 July 2013 18: 05 New
        +2
        Record - 250 tanks. Currently - how much they order ...
        1. Armata
          Armata 1 July 2013 18: 33 New
          +2
          Quote: uwzek
          Record - 250 tanks. Currently - how much they order ...
          How much do they do?
    5. old man54
      old man54 1 July 2013 14: 18 New
      0
      Quote: erased
      at a single tank building enterprise can ...

      That's what really bothers. One factory for the whole country !!

      Why breed a tantrum !!! In Omsk there is an enterprise for the assembly of tanks, still alive today! In St. Petersburg (Leningrad), when there was an alliance, Kirovsky Zavod, the birthplace of T-80, now I do not know what is happening to him, something is not heard about him. Why dozens of them? Again, the military-industrial complex of the USSR will be reproduced, but within the framework of Russia?
      1. Denis
        Denis 1 July 2013 15: 03 New
        +2
        Quote: old man54
        Kirovsky Zavod, the birthplace of T-80, now I don’t know what is happening to him, something is not heard about him
        Alas, nothing good ...
        It’s better not to hear it. In the workshops they don’t do anything, sausage, cookies, film ...
        The production of the Onega and Ladoga armored vehicles, forage harvesters, high-speed trench vehicles, self-propelled crawler cranes, etc. was mastered. In 2000, the production of the K-744R tractor range began.
        This is from official posts, and I can’t hear about this technique
        Privatization and devastation of the sisters, so that they ...
    6. Setrac
      Setrac 1 July 2013 16: 31 New
      +2
      Quote: erased
      One factory for the whole country !!

      I’ll pay attention to the name of the plant - Uralvagonzavod. They will stop rolling stock production, increase the production of tanks by orders of magnitude. In fact, the issue can be adjusted at other similar plants, the question is financing.
      1. uwzek
        uwzek 1 July 2013 18: 08 New
        +2
        You are naive guy! The least rudeness, just really, do you think that tanks are so easy to do?
  • kotdavin4i
    kotdavin4i 1 July 2013 08: 16 New
    +9
    Good morning everybody. Do not show and do it right is not the concept of a fashionable sedan. Military equipment should have an advantage over the enemy. And while there is an opportunity to hide all its characteristics, you need to do this. A potential adversary will need more time to create countermeasures.
  • family
    family tree 1 July 2013 08: 18 New
    +6
    Armata is not a tank, but a platform on the basis of which a tank will be created, including. Probably the only reliable fact. This is the first. Why lay out such a large volume of letters. It’s simpler and faster to say that there are still no specific data about Armata, except for rumors, but everybody knows this. This is the second.
    “Armata” program will remain secret and therefore provoking disputes
    To argue about what you have no idea is at least silly, for the most part, it smells like a clinic. This is the third hi
  • Basileus
    Basileus 1 July 2013 08: 29 New
    19
    I envy the author - to write so much text to say that nothing is known and is unlikely to become known in the near future, we must be able to.

    By the way, as far as I know, the only official model with the signature of “Armata” is the one that was shown to Rogozin in Kurgan (from the Military Russia website):
  • Armata
    Armata 1 July 2013 08: 34 New
    +3
    Yes Yes. There is a platform, but only one. But the fact that it is unique is a fact. Well, just think for yourself. If someone from non-traditional developed it, he would immediately boast of a new bauble. We work, we remove jambs. We would not be hindered by Putin and Rogozin and given money, would have been there a long time ago, and now the fate of Armata is unknown. While under T90 for Hindus we are trying and everything is frozen. It seems to me that they again pumped denyuzhku, but the exhaust will not be accepted.
    1. family
      family tree 1 July 2013 09: 11 New
      +2
      Dear Mechanic. Two questions, if not secret. Just yes or no.
      1. Torque converter?
      2. GOP?
      1. Armata
        Armata 1 July 2013 09: 48 New
        +3
        Quote: perepilka
        1. Torque converter?
        2. GOP?
        Gop yes, but kidrach no. Guys do not entertain themselves with illusions. This is just a platform for a single, averaged tank, self-propelled gun, heavy infantry fighting vehicle. Do you think this is good?
        1. Kars
          Kars 1 July 2013 09: 52 New
          +3
          Quote: Mechanic
          It’s just a platform for a single, averaged tank

          crying

          There are at least seven skating rinks left? And it turns out that the location of the MTO is provided for varying
          1. Armata
            Armata 1 July 2013 10: 24 New
            +4
            Quote: Kars
            There are at least seven skating rinks left? And it turns out that varying the location of the MTO location is provided?

            7 rollers, MTO front. Radial piston dvigun.
            1. Kars
              Kars 1 July 2013 10: 32 New
              +3
              Quote: Mechanic
              Katkov 7, MTO front

              In carrots that will rejoice))) put out the light)))

              Thank you. drinks
              1. Armata
                Armata 1 July 2013 10: 57 New
                +2
                Quote: Kars
                Carrot experts will be delighted
                Who are the sailors?
                1. Kars
                  Kars 1 July 2013 11: 01 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Mechanic
                  Who are the sailors?

                  There are such people))
                  1. Armata
                    Armata 1 July 2013 11: 13 New
                    +4
                    Quote: Kars
                    There are such people))
                    Come on, letters are measured. You yourself know. what’s the main crew.
                    1. Pimply
                      Pimply 1 July 2013 12: 55 New
                      +1
                      30% crew, 30% car, 30% logistics and 10 - unforeseen circumstances.
                      1. Yarbay
                        Yarbay 1 July 2013 13: 09 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Pimply
                        30% crew, 30% car, 30% logistics and 10 - unforeseen circumstances.

                        I would add a lot of percent about the higher command!
                      2. Pimply
                        Pimply 1 July 2013 13: 14 New
                        0
                        Yes, but this is a separate issue.
                  2. Pimply
                    Pimply 1 July 2013 13: 18 New
                    +3
                    Zhen, hi. How are you?

                    Tell me, will armor go to Armata focusing on DZ, or will there be any other options?
                    1. Armata
                      Armata 1 July 2013 14: 13 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Pimply
                      Tell me, will armor go to Armata focusing on DZ, or will there be any other options?
                      Hello namesake. I do not know. I’m just doing platforming, but what they are hanging on, well, then we will change the iron.
                    2. Pimply
                      Pimply 1 July 2013 15: 01 New
                      +3
                      Zhen thanks
          2. Pimply
            Pimply 1 July 2013 12: 53 New
            +2
            Ho-ho-ho, but not the right word 8))) I went to drink champagne 8)))
        2. Argon
          Argon 1 July 2013 18: 36 New
          +2
          After the "radial piston" mechanic (for me personally) precipitated, maybe you’ll tell your tales elsewhere, or think about secrecy, but the technical aspects are not yours.
          1. common man
            common man 1 July 2013 20: 40 New
            +4
            This refers to the X-shaped diesel family 2B. In principle, the cylinders are arranged radially. piston engine. Not a mechanic, which is a mechanic, maybe so to speak. Therefore, do not scuffle for any reason. (I’m not a lawyer and I’m not protecting anyone!)
            1. Argon
              Argon 2 July 2013 02: 08 New
              0
              Dear philistine, if you follow similar principles, on B-46 (for example) each pair of cylinders (in different blocks) "tied" to one connecting rod is also located radially, but the V-shaped does not cease to be. The case in another is the term "radial piston" (relative to ICE) is found ONLY in English technical literature (and the Internet), but refers to star-shaped engines. In our literature, they are always called X-shaped (the Germans, by the way, too). In connection with the above, evaluate; knowledge of English by this subject, his professional suitability as an “mechanic.” Judging by the rhetoric, he is young, he is not a techie working at UVZ-plankton (the logistics department is no more), maybe a modeller like karsa therefore owns a little theme. Regarding engine succession, the question is debatable, I came across it about 4 years ago, in the form of DGr-ki; the timing is completely different (with one camshaft on the cylinder head) and hydraulic compensators, structurally all the engine parts are very different, but the size (well, all the "heat engineering" probably?) is the same 150 \ 180mm.
    2. family
      family tree 1 July 2013 11: 26 New
      +2
      Quote: Mechanic
      Do you think this is good?

      In terms of repair and maintenance, the field is good. With our organization, everything for spare parts will be easier, in the case of infantry or self-propelled guns you can bail out. From the point of view universality, to be honest, xs, it’s driven into the head that the universal is worse than the special one when solving a certain problem, but these machines cannot be called highly specialized, and what kind of tasks in real life (and not in the commander’s dreams) will face them, hell knows.
      Gop yes, but kidrach no.

      Reverse, though done, or is it all one back?
      1. IRBIS
        IRBIS 1 July 2013 12: 38 New
        +2
        Quote: perepilka
        From the point of view universality, to be honest, xs, it’s driven into the head, that universal is worse than special when solving a certain problem

        Everything is right for you "driven into the head." Trying to create something universal for all occasions can play a cruel joke.
        Quote: Mechanic
        7 rollers, MTO front.

        This is alarming. Moving away from the traditional layout is, of course, a bold decision. And least of all, it looks like caring for the life of the crew. Versatility is where the wedge converges, but you can’t do the self-propelled guns on a traditional tank chassis. Mass distribution problems.
        Wait and see. This was told about T-90, science fiction blushed.
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 1 July 2013 12: 53 New
          +2
          Trying to create something universal for all occasions can play a cruel joke.

          Yes, but if it comes to, roughly speaking, the boxes and the chassis - what difference does it make, because you can make a platform for most soils and a different layout depending on the purpose. What is the difference that goes on the field - a tank or self-propelled guns?
          I kind of heard that the MTO will be in different places at the tank, at TBMP, at self-propelled guns. I don’t know how true this is.
        2. Armata
          Armata 1 July 2013 14: 15 New
          +2
          Quote: IRBIS
          You can’t do self-propelled guns on a traditional tank chassis. Mass distribution problems.

          she dives her nose now.
        3. Lopatov
          Lopatov 1 July 2013 14: 47 New
          0
          Quote: IRBIS
          and you can’t do self-propelled guns on a traditional tank chassis. Mass distribution problems.

          Why did you decide this? It all depends on the tower.
          1. IRBIS
            IRBIS 1 July 2013 15: 05 New
            0
            Quote: Spade
            Why did you decide this? It all depends on the tower.

            Now the traditional layout of the tank base is the MTO at the back. The weight of the gun barrel is compensated by the weight of the MTO. The total mass of the machine is almost evenly distributed. Pay attention to the self-propelled guns - the tower is shifted closer to the stern. However, without BC, during the movement, it all the same constantly "beats" a nose. So beats that the barrel stop flies.
            So this is not what I decided, this is a design feature. Otherwise, it just won’t work, even with a casemate gun.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 1 July 2013 15: 56 New
              +2
              Quote: IRBIS
              The weight of the gun barrel is compensated by the weight of the MTO.

              The weight of the barrel is compensated by the weight of the conveyors of the loading mechanism with ammunition and the power unit. Ammunition empty - pecks. We rearrange the tower back. Empty she will ride perfectly. But in a war, conveyors must be complete. In addition, self-propelled guns will be painfully long.

              So moving the engine forward requires abandoning the only debugged 2C19 loading mechanism, and creating a fundamentally new or returning to manual, like on 2C1 and 2C3
          2. Armata
            Armata 1 July 2013 15: 16 New
            +2
            Quote: Spade
            Why did you decide this? It all depends on the tower.
            Greetings. There are no towers yet, and how can one create a single balanced platform for different towers for MBT and self-propelled guns?
            1. Wedmak
              Wedmak 1 July 2013 15: 27 New
              +1
              and how can one create a balanced platform for different towers for MBT and self-propelled guns?

              But what about MBT, self-propelled guns, and heavy infantry fighting vehicles going to be made on the basis of Almaty? To average some parameters?
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 1 July 2013 16: 07 New
                0
                They don’t want to do heavy BMP.
                1. Pimply
                  Pimply 1 July 2013 16: 29 New
                  +3
                  In vain, in my opinion
              2. Setrac
                Setrac 1 July 2013 16: 58 New
                0
                Quote: Wedmak
                But what about MBT, self-propelled guns, and heavy infantry fighting vehicles going to be made on the basis of Almaty? To average some parameters?

                Apparently, the platform will initially be made to the desired configuration, and not to cut the finished chassis.
                I see everything as follows, for example:
                Peter makes the platform in the heavily armored version for the MBT, Omsk - in the medium-armored version for the BMP, assault guns, SAM, etc. Tagil - makes the lightly armored version for the armored personnel carrier, artillery, and special equipment.
                This is for example.
                1. Wedmak
                  Wedmak 1 July 2013 17: 07 New
                  0
                  Apparently, the platform will initially be made to the desired configuration, and not to cut the finished chassis.

                  No, I'm not talking about booking, I'm talking about towers for MBT, self-propelled guns, armored personnel carriers. The towers are different, the guns are different, the ammunition is different - the weight is different, the platform is one. The mechanic said that under such a difficult to make a single platform with the right weight distribution. But they are going to do it. How so?
                  1. Bad_gr
                    Bad_gr 1 July 2013 17: 27 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Wedmak
                    The towers are different, the guns are different, the ammunition is different - the weight is different, the platform is one.

                    I assumed that the platform will be one, but the engine will be installed in different places, depending on what the platform is for.
                    For example, if this is a self-propelled gun, it’s more convenient to have the MTO in front and the huge tower at the back. It is obtained with such a layout and more compact (the barrel sticks out in front less) and it is easier for the crew to work from the ground.
                    If it is a tank, then a heavy forehead reservation should balance the MTO from behind. The tower is closer to the center, as this is the most comfortable place to shoot on the go (chatting less).

                    If there will be a single layout for all occasions, then personally I doubt that it was a good idea.
                  2. Setrac
                    Setrac 1 July 2013 17: 32 New
                    0
                    Quote: Wedmak
                    No, I'm not talking about booking, I'm talking about towers for MBT, self-propelled guns, armored personnel carriers.

                    I, too, about this, design features can be laid in the production not only for booking.
                  3. Wedmak
                    Wedmak 1 July 2013 17: 43 New
                    +1
                    Well, then we'll wait and see what they came up with at UVZ. I hope that next year they will at least roll out MBT.
          3. Lopatov
            Lopatov 1 July 2013 16: 07 New
            +1
            Welcome.

            The fact of the matter is that we have only one tower with a loading mechanism, and this is the 2C19 tower, designed for the rear location of the engine.

            So they need to do both towers from scratch. Artillery - the analogue of the "German", tank - with even greater problems, with a high line of fire. I don’t understand what they are doing.
      2. old man54
        old man54 1 July 2013 20: 56 New
        0
        Quote: IRBIS
        Everything is right for you "driven into the head." Trying to create something universal for all occasions can play a cruel joke. ... This is alarming. Moving away from the traditional layout is, of course, a bold decision. And least of all, it looks like caring for the life of the crew. Versatility is where the wedge converges.

        I agree with you, "+"! Front MTO will be a problem, here's a look! And it was put in front just for the sake of universality, so that it would be more convenient to sculpt BMPs on this base. Yes, and the BMP on the basis of the tank ... apparently the Jewish tales of the invincibility of their tanks had a strong influence on the minds of our generals, or on what was left of them.
      3. svp67
        svp67 2 July 2013 20: 08 New
        +1
        Quote: IRBIS
        You can’t do self-propelled guns on a traditional tank chassis.

        What cannot be done ... tongue
        1. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 2 July 2013 20: 54 New
          0
          Not quite a correct example.
          The main chassis is from the T-80, but the track rollers are located differently (not in pairs, like the T-80, but mostly closer to the stern), booking is simpler, the engine compartment is from the T-72.
          1. svp67
            svp67 2 July 2013 21: 18 New
            0
            Quote: Bad_gr
            Not quite a correct example.
            Correct, Correct ...
            One of the requirements for the new self-propelled guns was its deployment on a unified base with tanks (T-72, T-80) and the installation of a universal artillery unit, which could be used both in self-propelled guns and in towed artillery.

            Read more: http://www.arms-expo.ru/049050053052124049051053050.html
            The self-propelled gun hull is armored, structurally and externally similar to the T-72 tank hull. It features a weaker reservation, providing protection for the crew, weapons, ammunition and equipment for armor-piercing bullets and fragments, the frontal part is made of homogeneous armor steel.
    3. Armata
      Armata 1 July 2013 14: 41 New
      +3
      Quote: perepilka
      Reverse, though done, or all in one back
      The box is reversible. Rejoice drinks smile
      1. family
        family tree 1 July 2013 15: 11 New
        +2
        Quote: Mechanic
        The box is reversible. Rejoice drinks smile

        Rejoice! Now I’ll go to the garage, there we’ll rejoice with the guys as much as possible drinks laughing
    4. Setrac
      Setrac 1 July 2013 16: 54 New
      0
      Quote: perepilka
      From the point of view universality, to be honest, xs, it’s driven into the head that the universal is worse than the special one when solving a certain problem, but these machines cannot be called highly specialized, and what kind of tasks in real life (and not in the commander’s dreams) will face them, hell knows.

      This is if you take a tank, remove a tower and saw another combat vehicle from the tank, for example self-propelled guns, if you produce it initially under self-propelled guns, then there will be no loss against special vehicles.
  • Denis
    Denis 1 July 2013 15: 26 New
    +1
    Quote: Mechanic
    Do you think this is good?
    The examples are of course long-standing, but the commonality of the T-34 and SU-100 platforms, IS and ISUs, say that it’s not bad at all
    There are many modern examples too
    Reasonable unification is always good
    As an example: for the Octopus-SD, they did not particularly invent a new one
    The main armament of the 2C25 self-propelled guns consists of the 125-mm smoothbore 2A75 tank gun, which is based on the 125-mm 2A46 tank gun mounted on the main battle tanks T-72, T-80 and T-90.
  • AK-47
    AK-47 1 July 2013 09: 19 New
    +3
    Quote: Mechanic
    We would not be bothered ... and now the fate of Armata is unknown.

    Grieved the gracious, but we hoped.
    1. Armata
      Armata 1 July 2013 09: 49 New
      +4
      Quote: AK-47
      Grieved the gracious, but we hoped.
      Better bitter truth than a beautiful lie. And we have already hung so much on our ears.
  • leon-iv
    leon-iv 1 July 2013 12: 45 New
    +4
    Zhenya, tell me the dark.
    How linking Armata and Bishma
    Even if Bishmu makes a serial plant and there is more field supervision is needed.
    But Armata Still has more UKBTM, not UVZ (as a production site)
    1. Armata
      Armata 1 July 2013 13: 20 New
      +2
      Quote: leon-iv
      But Armata Still has more UKBTM, not UVZ (as a production site)

      Hello, Dear. UKBTM is making a single platform, but all the others work the same way as on the topic of “Coalition”.
      1. leon-iv
        leon-iv 1 July 2013 13: 36 New
        +1
        Ok with the trolley. By the way, how do you rate it yourself?
        And with BM there will be many problems there, and so it was clear.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 1 July 2013 12: 52 New
    +1
    So you ended up staying there?
    1. Armata
      Armata 1 July 2013 13: 21 New
      +2
      Quote: Pimply
      So you ended up staying there?
      Yes, bye.
      1. Aleks tv
        Aleks tv 1 July 2013 16: 20 New
        +3
        Quote: Mechanic
        Yes, bye.


        Thanks for the info, Eugene, with pleasure I read at least something "not airy".
        Good luck at work and with the "place of work".
        wink
  • rolik
    rolik 1 July 2013 13: 23 New
    +5
    Quote: Mechanic
    While under T90 for Hindus we are trying and everything is frozen. It seems to me that they again pumped denyuzhku, but the exhaust will not be accepted.

    So we have the same garbage. Scored, the previous head, credits under Wikiramidya. Now they don’t know how to close loans. But the GDP said, give money, now the first income has gone. As these effective managers managed to get stuck, it’s good even now they seem to have entered the mind. There is no worse villain than the meneger in uniform. So that the boats will be. Recently I watched a program with Karaulov, damn it ... some nonsense is pouring from our screens onto our heads. It seems that he is also a respected person, and carry such a heresy in the program. I should be ashamed, ashamed. But they look at him in the country and draw their opinion on his conclusions, that’s sad. If you are a layman, please attract those who really do what you are talking about. Do not embarrass yourself.
  • uwzek
    uwzek 1 July 2013 18: 18 New
    +3
    Stop about the Indian order ... Yes, the Indians can’t do the T-90 themselves, so they order tank corps at the UVZ, but this doesn’t interfere with the “arm” ...
    1. Yarbay
      Yarbay 1 July 2013 23: 13 New
      0
      Quote: uwzek
      Stop about the Indian order ..

      What is it))))))))
      That all those working in the defense industry are so nervous and intolerant ??))))))
      Mlyn what liberals did to you))))))))))
  • ramsi
    ramsi 1 July 2013 08: 38 New
    +4
    Oh, judging by the raised snowstorm, something I'm already afraid that it will turn out a grand zilch
  • sys-1985
    sys-1985 1 July 2013 08: 54 New
    +1
    Must do something worthwhile .. otherwise the point was to start all this ?! IMHO
  • a.hamster55
    a.hamster55 1 July 2013 09: 09 New
    +2
    The keyword "platform" and it seems to me everything is slowed down due to the variety of requirements
    from future customers (that would float and fly at least low). Although this is a global trend, but for us it is somehow long.
  • dominion
    dominion 1 July 2013 09: 14 New
    +1
    In any case, the next 2 years will show how far we have come in the construction of a new tank.
    I think "UVZ" does not disappoint, the organization is solid.
    1. Airman
      Airman 1 July 2013 12: 22 New
      +2
      Quote: dominion
      In any case, the next 2 years will show how far we have come in the construction of a new tank.
      I think "UVZ" does not disappoint, the organization is solid.


      The only pity is that the monopolist, no competition. If there was competition, they would move faster, but whatever you do, they will anyway accept it, because you need equipment, but there is no other! And this is very sad.
      1. dominion
        dominion 1 July 2013 15: 17 New
        -2
        We will not pull the development of several platforms as the USSR used to be. And other design teams all the same, after all, both Omsk and Kurgan design bureaus and others are involved in the development. Armata will be the synergy of our entire tank building school.
        1. Armata
          Armata 1 July 2013 15: 42 New
          +1
          Quote: dominion
          Armata will be the synergy of our entire tank building school.
          Sure?
          Quote: dominion
          And other design teams all the same, after all, both Omsk and Kurgan design bureaus and others are involved in the development.
          Duck Omsk Research Institute that works at UVZ? And now that KMP does not have prepared sites and assembly slides for the new platform?
        2. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 1 July 2013 17: 09 New
          +2
          Quote: dominion
          Armata will be the synergy of our entire tank building school.

          If only this single platform would not work like an adjustable wrench: you can twist the nuts of any size, but everything is equally not convenient.
  • Cat
    Cat 1 July 2013 09: 33 New
    +6
    quite, you see, the "bummed" zhurnalyugi starved ...
    On the heap of information resources are hundreds of articles about Armata, the general meaning of which boils down to one: everything is classified, no one knows anything, no one sees anything, and when they see it is not clear. And his FIG knows that it’s such a beast in general, Armata is either a tank, or an armored car, or a platform, or a locomotive on a caterpillar track.
    Some lazy and talented people try to portray something like that - some on the basis of previous developments, some "based on" their own dreams.
    In general, the good old journalistic method: "our business is to drive the circulation, and if there is information and common sense - this is not a bad reader understand"
  • JonnyT
    JonnyT 1 July 2013 09: 37 New
    0
    The tank will be! I believe in it!!!
    Although it's time to show it to the world. Tanks are also a deterrent weapon. Hitler said something about the T-34. "If I used to know that the Russians have such a tank, I would not start a war against them"

    I get the impression that all production capacities are aimed at making a profit, they will remember about Armata when a roasted cock pecks in one place, well, what to do - the mentality is
  • Blad_21617
    Blad_21617 1 July 2013 09: 42 New
    +3
    "... but was the boy" this Armata already "created" in about 5 years, will it turn out to be another farce or a deed like with a defense service?
    1. AK-47
      AK-47 1 July 2013 11: 04 New
      +3
      Quote: Blad_21617
      will it turn out to be another farce or business as with defense service?

      Mechanic... and now the fate of Almaty is unknown .... Better is the bitter truth than a beautiful lie. And we have already hung so much on our ears.

      Experts say that farce.
      negative
      1. Armata
        Armata 1 July 2013 18: 44 New
        +4
        Quote: AK-47
        Experts say that farce.
        this is not a farce, but simply a delayed, frozen project.
  • Prapor Afonya
    Prapor Afonya 1 July 2013 09: 50 New
    -1
    Quote: Beibit
    Ehhh ... we would have Kazakhstan such tanks as T-90С units 500 and Armature units 500, as well as 50-100 units Su-35С, SAM S-400 100 regiments. Shell of pieces 50. Iskander 20 regiments. BMD-4 pieces of 500. BTR-82A pieces of 1000. Tigers Pieces 1000. Msta-S pieces 300. MLRS Tornado, City of pieces 150 Teminator pieces 50. TOROV M2 pieces 50. Ka-52 pieces of 50 and MiNUMX-H pieces of 28 At least ... probably enough for a start =) I wonder how much will it cost us ???

    HA! Expensive!!!
  • Prapor Afonya
    Prapor Afonya 1 July 2013 09: 58 New
    0
    Quote: alexdol
    Given the pogrom of production and science that occurred after the collapse of the USSR, it is difficult to count on something UNIQUE, because everything that continues to be created today is done so far on the basis of the backlog of what remained after the UNION. Therefore, a plausible assumption by expert Khlopotov:
    “So, expert A. Khlopotov, referring to rumors circulating in certain circles, writes that the first show of“ Almaty ”will nevertheless take place this fall. However, first the tank will be shown to a narrow circle of people from the country's leadership and the military department. ... Khlopotov suggests that the upcoming show may turn out to be a BANAL STARTING DUST in the eyes of high authorities. For these purposes, a single tank-building enterprise can assemble a model of a promising combat vehicle, which will be shown to the president, defense minister and other officials. "

    Believe me, there will still be enough Union developments for many years to come, and these developments will not have analogues in the world, just a lot because of humpback reforms could not be embodied in the metal!
  • mark1
    mark1 1 July 2013 10: 03 New
    +4
    I think - “Armata” should be shown. Though a living tank, even a mock-up, even a “single platform”, even a poster with pictures and a beautiful girl for comment, otherwise the plant will lose face. So many cod for many years (first T-95, then Armata - "a simplified version of the T-95" as stated at the beginning) - and the forest is getting darker and the fog is thicker ...
    1. sub307
      sub307 1 July 2013 10: 18 New
      0
      Yes, they will show, probably, when they will make a sample.
      1. mark1
        mark1 1 July 2013 10: 25 New
        -1
        I meant that it’s time to show now, at least what is (or didn’t have to beat the drums and wave flags for 10 years).
      2. Airman
        Airman 1 July 2013 12: 29 New
        0
        Quote: sub307
        Yes, they will show, probably, when they will make a sample.


        It’s ridiculous to talk about the choice from one sample - this is not a choice, it is a forced! The choice is when you have 2-4 samples in front of you, and from them you need to choose the BEST.
    2. Armata
      Armata 1 July 2013 10: 59 New
      +3
      Quote: mark1
      I think - “Armata” should be shown. Though a living tank, even a layout,
      The layout was shown, but wait for the platform.
      1. mark1
        mark1 1 July 2013 11: 58 New
        +2
        Waiting, waiting. Do you even hint, “dance” from T-95 or right from scratch - did you get everything that was worked out on T-95?
        1. Armata
          Armata 1 July 2013 14: 17 New
          +4
          Quote: mark1
          Waiting, waiting. Do you even hint, “dance” from T-95 or right from scratch - did you get everything that was worked out on T-95?
          All the best from all the samples, now they are watching what happens.
          1. mark1
            mark1 1 July 2013 15: 33 New
            +5
            Quote: Mechanic
            Quote: mark1
            Waiting, waiting. Do you even hint, “dance” from T-95 or right from scratch - did you get everything that was worked out on T-95?
            All the best from all the samples, now they are watching what happens.

            Dear Mechanic, with your style of answering, without saying anything in fact, you probably would have found a place in the Foreign Ministry (this is a compliment)
            1. Argon
              Argon 1 July 2013 18: 53 New
              0
              Yes, actually, what do you want about him according to the answers judging by the person submits the maximum keys.
  • Kostya77
    Kostya77 1 July 2013 10: 36 New
    +4
    They will show, they will not show ... Yes, okay. The most important thing is that by the announced date of deliveries to the troops a ready-made sample is released, and not a rawhide from a cart and birdhouse
  • Algor73
    Algor73 1 July 2013 10: 46 New
    +3
    "... will be higher than similar foreign machines currently being developed." It turns out that the characteristics being developed tanks are already known abroad, but "Almaty" not yet? It is alarming that there are no specifics for any node or unit. And all that is in the internet is reasoning without reference to specific individuals. Although, maybe Armata will not be offered for export, then it’s not necessary to convey the characteristics to the public, the main thing is that the defense capability be increased.
    1. Armata
      Armata 1 July 2013 11: 17 New
      +4
      Quote: Algor73
      ..will be higher than that of similar foreign vehicles being developed at present. "It turns out that the characteristics of tanks developed abroad are already known, but" Almaty "is not there yet? It is alarming that there are no specifics for any unit or assembly. And all that there is reasoning in the internet without reference to specific individuals, although maybe Armata will not be offered for export, then it’s not necessary to convey characteristics to the public, the main thing is that defense capability be increased.
      Look further in the internet. laughing
  • Begemot
    Begemot 1 July 2013 11: 09 New
    0
    Weapons based on traditional physical principles have practically exhausted the resource of improvement.
    This also applies to tanks. Nothing breakthrough will be made in the coming years. all the fuss is fussing around the ratio "combat effectiveness / cost", so it is unlikely that something fundamentally different from existing machines will be created. Maybe this is what dictated the desire to make a modular platform. The issue of weapons is very relevant, for a new tank, a new ammunition is needed, but silence is generally about it, if nothing is done, then Armata was not worth starting at all. If someone found the press on this issue - share it, I will be grateful.
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 1 July 2013 17: 09 New
      +1
      Quote: Begemot
      Weapons based on traditional physical principles have practically exhausted the resource of improvement.
      This is not true, it is the powder weapon that has exhausted itself, and that is debatable.
    2. Wedmak
      Wedmak 1 July 2013 17: 17 New
      0
      Nothing breakthrough will be made in the coming years.

      It is not a matter of new physical principles, but of where to get energy for this weapon.
      EM guns are already being tested, but guzzle unnecessarily.
      Lasers were tested, but in the atmosphere they are ineffective, again they consume a lot.
      Wave weapons ... nuuu ... it's easier to say xs than to find something on it.
      Nevertheless, the main stone for a breakthrough is energy.
      1. Kars
        Kars 1 July 2013 17: 22 New
        +3
        What can I say rumored for Armata will be the A82 gun, which according to the characteristics will be analogous to the German Rheinmetal L55, what’s a breakthrough? And for the tank, it’s not the new physical principle that is most real, but at least the transition is not Liquid propellant.
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 1 July 2013 17: 30 New
          0
          What is rumored to be for the A82 cannon

          You are talking about a gun, and Armata is a platform. For guns in particular. Yes, a breakthrough is unlikely to be, but I hope by TTX it will surpass the existing "carts".
        2. Aleks tv
          Aleks tv 1 July 2013 18: 38 New
          +1
          Quote: Kars
          and at least the transition is not Liquid propellant.


          About iron ore, divided into two low-combustible fractions, we were told at the end of the 80's in the camp, as a promising direction.
          Extremely interesting thing: relatively safe and compact can be placed in a combat vehicle. The ammunition load of shells increases and the time for a charge cycle decreases. Theoretically increases the initial speed.

          Kars, is there something to read interesting in this area in a practical aspect?
          I would be grateful for the Old.
          1. Kars
            Kars 1 July 2013 19: 58 New
            +3
            Quote: Aleks tv
            Kars, is there something to read interesting in this area in a practical aspect?
            I would be grateful for the Old.

            nothing that will not give google. to regret.
            1. Aleks tv
              Aleks tv 1 July 2013 20: 44 New
              +1
              Quote: Kars
              nothing that will not give google. to regret.


              Clear. I have an ancologic.
  • ed65b
    ed65b 1 July 2013 11: 38 New
    +2
    should work out. And as they show something such a breakthrough, so everyone gasps. well, they’re sitting there completely headless, since such statements are made they cannot frown. Well, the whole world will make fun of us, and the professor will immediately become the generalissimo.
  • Sashko07
    Sashko07 1 July 2013 11: 56 New
    -19
    Quote: neri73-r
    Comrades, don’t be jealous !!! Everything is going according to plan, well, it just so happened that we have at least something under construction!

    I don’t want to offend anyone in any way, but Russia does not know how to build tanks, in India your T-90 still spits and don’t know what to do with it - send it for scrap or sell it to someone for cheap. Sarmat, I think, will not be something that would be a cut above the T-90.

    Modernization of old models is what they are doing now in all tank-building states, but there is no point in creating new, fundamentally different machines, because such a tank should have just phenomenal armor with very expensive materials, no one will do such a clear stump because such a tank will cost tens of millions apiece. Well, Sarmat will have the best electronics - what’s the problem, you can put it on any tank, well, there will be more modern guidance systems and optics, again all this can be put on existing cars. A tank is not a plane or a rocket, a completely new tank with characteristics a cut above its counterparts will appear no earlier than in a few decades.
    1. Basileus
      Basileus 1 July 2013 11: 58 New
      +7
      Lol, funny. Given that the T-80 was developed in Leningrad.

      Could you tell me more about the Indians? Only not from those articles in which lobbyists of Arjun push their unfinished business, but something more serious.
    2. family
      family tree 1 July 2013 12: 03 New
      +9
      Quote: Sashko07
      I don’t want to offend anyone in any way, but Russia does not know how to build tanks, in India your T-90 still spits and don’t know what to do with it - send it for scrap or sell it to someone for cheap. Sarmat, I think, will not be something that would be a cut above the T-90.

      belay So here you are, verbal diarrhea ...?!
      1. sashka
        sashka 1 July 2013 13: 41 New
        0
        Quote: perepilka
        So here you are, verbal diarrhea ...?!

        Yes . I am like that. I speak and write correctly. And I state My thoughts and views. And who are you ? "exam fragment"? Dropout from Outskirts? The flag has not been determined. Who are you or who are you? Answer yourself first. Then ask questions to others ..
        1. family
          family tree 1 July 2013 15: 03 New
          +4
          Sashka (3) RU
          So here you are, reindeer!

          Usually, to strangers, in the second, only I refer to “You”, but here is a quote, so request
          But this
          I don’t want to offend anyone in any way, but Russia doesn’t know how to build tanks, in India your T-90 still spits and don’t know what to do with it - send it for scrap or sell it to someone for cheap. Sarmat, I think, will not be something that would be a cut above the T-90. Etc
          verbal diarrhea, or logorrhea, as you prefer. Good luck hi
        2. Setrac
          Setrac 1 July 2013 17: 12 New
          +2
          Quote: Sasha
          Who are you or who are you?

          It is believed that our ex from Israel are hiding under the Soviet flag.
          1. family
            family tree 1 July 2013 19: 00 New
            +2
            Quote: Setrac
            It is believed that our ex from Israel are hiding under the Soviet flag.

            Setrac (1) RU
            Pimply (1) RU laughing
            1. The comment was deleted.
    3. ed65b
      ed65b 1 July 2013 12: 22 New
      +1
      Quote: Sashko07
      I don’t want to offend anyone in any way, but Russia does not know how to build tanks, in India your T-90 still spits and don’t know what to do with it - send it for scrap or sell it to someone for cheap. Sarmat, I think, will not be something that would be a cut above the T-90.

      And then who is the super tank builder ????? Professor is you ??? sorry in makeup did not recognize.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 1 July 2013 13: 03 New
        +6
        The professor did not stoop to insults from Russian tank building.
        1. sashka
          sashka 1 July 2013 13: 59 New
          +5
          Quote: Pimply
          The professor did not stoop to insults from Russian tank building.

          And not only the "professor" but you too. The obvious is the obvious. What to argue about? It's just not so simple .. Most importantly, brains do not litter yourself and others. You +. "Professor" too. Courageous people with infernal patience))
          1. Yarbay
            Yarbay 1 July 2013 18: 18 New
            +3
            Quote: Sasha
            Courageous people with infernal patience))

            The professor could not stand it anymore)))
    4. Slevinst
      Slevinst 1 July 2013 12: 25 New
      -2
      and for kai horseradish then stopped the armature in order to fulfill the Indian contract? where is your logic
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Armata
        Armata 1 July 2013 14: 49 New
        +6
        Quote: Slevinst
        and for kai horseradish then stopped the armature in order to fulfill the Indian contract? where is your logic

        Smoke less. So then I do not manage orders for stands, which are required, then we deliver.
        1. Slevinst
          Slevinst 1 July 2013 15: 25 New
          +2
          mechanic so it was a comment here on this
          Quote: Sashko07
          I don’t want to offend anyone in any way, but Russia does not know how to build tanks, in India your T-90 still spits and don’t know what to do with it - send it for scrap or sell it to someone for cheap. Sarmat, I think, will not be something that would be a cut above the T-90.
    5. Slevinst
      Slevinst 1 July 2013 12: 26 New
      +1
      can an insulated armored capsule also be placed on any tank?
    6. KG_patriot_last
      KG_patriot_last 1 July 2013 12: 29 New
      +3
      a new tank is not necessarily more powerful. If the tank retains the qualities of the former, but will cost less, weigh less, smaller - this will be a breakthrough ...
      1. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 1 July 2013 17: 48 New
        0
        Quote: KG_patriot_last
        If the tank retains the qualities of the former, but will cost less, weigh less, smaller - this will be a breakthrough ...

        This approach is relevant when it is important to produce as many products as possible, but not lower quality - this is in wartime.
        Now it’s more important to release a tank with greater crew survival + more powerful and accurate weapons + integrate this combat unit into a single information field.
  • Russ69
    Russ69 1 July 2013 12: 30 New
    0
    According to Borisov, in the framework of development work under the names "Buttercup", "Sineva" and "Armata", a new tank is being developed for the Russian army.
    "Buttercup", as I understand it, self-propelled guns, they are all a flower series.
    And the "Blue", what?


    RIA Novosti http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20130627/946239120.html#13726709088603&message=resi
    ze & relto = register & action = addClass & value = registration # ixzz2XmhcmoDU
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 1 July 2013 12: 45 New
      0
      And Sineva is probably the same armored vehicle for the Marine Corps.
      1. Russ69
        Russ69 1 July 2013 12: 50 New
        0
        Quote: Wedmak
        And Sineva is probably the same armored vehicle for the Marine Corps.

        On the basis of "Almaty", it is unlikely. Although by name, it can be attributed to both the Airborne Forces and the Marines.
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 1 July 2013 13: 07 New
          0
          On the basis of "Almaty", it is unlikely.

          Of course not, for the Airborne Forces, for the Marines there will be a very specialized machine. There, the requirements are not too compatible with each other.
      2. ale-x
        ale-x 1 July 2013 12: 53 New
        0
        And the Airborne Forces, probably .... They know a lot about the "blue" and drink it and sing about it. Now they will ride on the "blue". Well, comedians, these designers)))))
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 1 July 2013 14: 41 New
      0
      Quote: Russ69
      "Buttercup", as I understand it, self-propelled guns, they are all a flower series.

      We now have self-propelled guns “Msta” and “Vienna”. A self-propelled gun ATGM-Chrysanthemum

      Not a fact.
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 1 July 2013 15: 03 New
        0
        And for some reason I saw the “Buttercup” - a self-propelled mortar. Xs why ...
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 1 July 2013 15: 09 New
          0
          Already departed from this. Last greetings from the past - "Host". There is such a flower.

          Quote: Wedmak
          And for some reason I saw the “Buttercup” - a self-propelled mortar.


          By analogy with the "Tulip" - also masculine.
          1. Wedmak
            Wedmak 1 July 2013 15: 16 New
            +2
            By analogy with the "Tulip" - also masculine.

            Maybe ... Tulip in the face, Buttercup in the eye! smile
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 1 July 2013 16: 09 New
              +2
              After the "Tulip" eyes are usually no longer found.
    3. sashka
      sashka 18 July 2013 10: 42 New
      0
      Quote: Russ69
      And the "Blue", what?

      It is logical to assume "what" is it?
  • rudolff
    rudolff 1 July 2013 13: 05 New
    +8
    All debates about Almaty are related to the fact that before having conceived a child, they have already informed that it will be a hero-boy “having no analogues” and by ten years “will reach at least two meters in height. The boy has not yet been born, but how many copies already broken. There would be no bravura statements, then there would be no disputes. As with the T-95. How many years fussed with him in a quiet, and then, as it were, by chance "out of date at the design stage, work stopped." Without noise and dust In the foreseeable future we will probably see the platform itself. But it’s not a tank yet! Just what an uninhabited combat module is worth, still that piece of work! Maybe not even a tank will appear first, but some BMPT based on it. But In any case, they will wait a long time for new items in combat units, and guessing what it will be is empty and ungrateful.
  • gallville
    gallville 1 July 2013 13: 48 New
    +1
    Quote: rudolff
    All debates about Almaty are related to the fact that before having conceived a child, they have already informed that this will be a hero-boy “having no analogues” and by ten years “will reach at least two meters in height.

    Entirely and completely agree.
    From myself I will add.
    1. Such accelerated development, the main "marketing" in comparison with other countries of tank manufacturers (all have modernization), smells very much like a "dough cut" allocated for GPV-2020.
    2. The internal wars of the military-industrial complex led to the fact that instead of the T-80 we have the T-72 in the troops.
    And the T-80 platform has such advantages as:
    a) initially larger reservation
    b) a more powerful engine of 1000 l / s against 740
    c) two types of engine which is very important considering the north
    d) good suo even without modernization
    e) yes, even an inside-controlled anti-aircraft machine gun.
    1. vladimir VR
      vladimir VR 1 July 2013 15: 25 New
      +1
      The T-80 is a great car, but the MSA, the HFM is not for every climate.
    2. uwzek
      uwzek 2 July 2013 03: 57 New
      0
      You bring TTD tanks of the period of the 80s of the last century. In this sense, the T-90 is cooler on all points ...
      The trouble with all our tanks is the too small amount of internal space that no longer allows them to be seriously modernized. In this regard, even arrange dances in Armata ...
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 2 July 2013 11: 37 New
        0
        Quote: uwzek
        The trouble with all of our tanks is too little internal space

        In fact, this is an advantage, the smaller the ratio of volume to weight, the higher the security.
  • Check
    Check 1 July 2013 13: 48 New
    0
    Well, on the same resource for any one there is an employee of Uralvagonzavod, I understand that it is secret, but at least tell me, is there at least something already on this Armata, yes or no. )))
    1. common man
      common man 1 July 2013 14: 29 New
      +1
      Read the MECHANICS. Including between the lines.
  • KG_patriot_last
    KG_patriot_last 1 July 2013 14: 02 New
    +1
    The most important thing on this platform is the city tank! A very necessary thing in modern wars. Especially in local.
    1. vladimir VR
      vladimir VR 1 July 2013 15: 22 New
      0
      Then BMPP (infantry support vehicle).
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 1 July 2013 16: 11 New
      +2
      Any tank can be made urban. It is enough to fasten a platoon of trained foot soldiers to it.
      1. Argon
        Argon 2 July 2013 02: 18 New
        0
        Yeah, "urban", and also rural, township, forest and mountain, these are about people now in headquarters and are sitting.
        1. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 2 July 2013 10: 32 New
          0
          Quote: Argon
          Yeah, "urban", as well as rural, township, forest and mountain .....

          Now it’s practiced among manufacturers to make additional protection (DZ, gratings) that are hung on standard equipment, improving circular protection, which is important when fighting in the city.
  • patsantre
    patsantre 1 July 2013 14: 27 New
    +2
    I now have such an idea, but will the fate of the F-35 in the form of not the most outstanding performance characteristics befall Armata because of all these attempts to universalize, standardize and unify?
  • Vanek
    Vanek 1 July 2013 14: 32 New
    0
    Alright peasants. It’s interesting with you, but it’s better at home. I apologize to someone who was naughty. If there are any.

    ... and ... this is ... the most ... Basilio, apologize for the troll.
  • Landwarrior
    Landwarrior 1 July 2013 14: 43 New
    +4
    Well, now, once again sat down in a galosh. sad Well what for such an advertisement to drive? It would be better as before - quietly, quietly, and then - AP! "Guys, what do we have!" laughing
    1. vladimir VR
      vladimir VR 1 July 2013 15: 31 New
      0
      Why did you crouch down? They made "probable friends" sleep badly at night. Let them suffer. belay
      1. old man54
        old man54 1 July 2013 16: 59 New
        +1
        Quote: vladimir VR
        Why did you crouch down? They made "probable friends" sleep badly at night. Let them suffer. belay

        Yes, or what they do not suffer, about Armata so especially! Today they are very tense about GDP and its poorly predictable actions regarding foreign policy and its course towards a sharp increase in the country's defense capability.
  • Volkhov
    Volkhov 1 July 2013 15: 50 New
    +1
    Look at how many weapons go to Syria, all the warehouses have been sorted out, that with the fleet - there are no funds for new equipment that cannot be used - a normal military situation.
  • old man54
    old man54 1 July 2013 16: 07 New
    0
    the article is ambiguous, but put a "+". To be honest, all this hysteria around the new MBT in the media already provoked above the roof, provoked by politicians, the military and the UVZ itself! And this is nothing more than a stupid and inept copying of the western, first of all, Amerovsk style of marketing of defense industry products. THOSE. such an advertising tricky move! It seems that the priorities of our military-industrial complex, after the 91 year, are not the creation of armored vehicles to increase the country's defense capability, but the sale of its samples abroad, first of all!: ((Hence, such PR actions during its creation.

    The declared dates for adopting "Almaty" into service are approaching, but, nevertheless, responsible persons are still limited only to general statements and are in no hurry to publish any technical information.

    Thus, the conversation about a promising tank based on the Armata armored platform once again ended with the most common words.

    The technical details of the project are still unknown, which can be interpreted in the broadest possible way, including in a negative way.

    but why did they all decide that it was inapplicable about the latest weapons developments and should notify everyone, put TTX and BH into the network? What nonsense is that? It is clear that the last 20 years of our history have greatly softened the brains of a good half of the population, but not to the same extent! :)) Why is it that even the appearance of secret developments should be made public, how do all kinds of activists moan here ?? I remember, in the days of the USSR, my relative was graduating from the Leningrad Combined Arms (Pushkin), so he said that they have our most secret tank (T-80) on the territory to familiarize future commanders. He stands under the tarpaulin almost always 1, although it was already 1987 year, and took him into service in 1976! And then no one was beaten by a lapdog, why it wasn’t shown to the people. It’s necessary, they don’t show it !!! And T-80 then and "Armata" now!
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 1 July 2013 16: 15 New
      +1
      It is clear that the last 20 years of our history have greatly softened the brains of a good half of the population, but not to the same extent!

      The propaganda of freedom of speech really greatly softened the brains of ordinary people. Therefore, freedom of speech has forgotten responsibility for these very words. The agitprom did not say anything about this .... So we get what we have ...
      1. mark1
        mark1 1 July 2013 17: 05 New
        +2
        Quote: Wedmak
        The propaganda of freedom of speech really greatly softened the brains of ordinary people. Therefore, freedom of speech has forgotten responsibility for these very words. The agitprom did not say anything about this .... So we get what we have ...

        And where does the brains of the townsfolk? Information on the development of the platform on the topic of “Armata” came from the Ministry of Defense and the management of the UVZ, but they also made promises to show the platform by 2011; 2012; 2013 ... and to infinity. If the development is secret - do not tryndite and do not throw empty words, no one claims to know the state secrets. So the propaganda of freedom of speech rather softened the brains of some representatives of Moscow Region, and for some, by turn, the brain only became firmer.
        Remarochka on T-80. You can keep it under cover for another 50 years, but as far back as 1978, I was discussing with the guys who came from the SA (Taman Division) new tanks with a gas turbine engine (guess what) and the people who served in the GSVG in the choke talked about the T-64. So all the secrets - a very relative thing - to someone a secret and to someone a reason in the kitchen to squabble
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 1 July 2013 17: 12 New
          +2
          Information on the development of the platform on the topic of “Armata” came from the Ministry of Defense and the management of UVZ

          And who said that this guide cannot be a layman? Yes, and you can say something when you do it yourself. The meaning of my post is not in the inhabitants, but on the lack of responsibility for their words.
          1. mark1
            mark1 1 July 2013 17: 22 New
            +2
            Well, then, we are like-minded people, the essence of my passages is the same - you have to answer for the "bazaar".
  • sub307
    sub307 1 July 2013 16: 17 New
    +2
    But what the deputy minister says: "
    According to Deputy Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation Yuri Borisov, a fundamentally new Armata tank platform will appear in the Russian Armed Forces by 2015.
    He told about this on the air of the Echo of Moscow radio. “The task of creating this platform is to obtain a qualitative leap for the development of this direction. We will definitely create this platform by 2015. It will be used not only for tanks, but also for infantry fighting vehicles, for all equipment of this class,” Borisov said.
    According to him, the current tank equipment, including the T-90 tank, was created on the T-72 platforms, the development of which has been exhausted. At the same time, the deputy head of the Russian Defense Ministry emphasized that the T-90 tanks as a whole are not inferior to their counterparts from Germany and the United States.
    In August 2012, the general director of Uralvagonzavod Oleg Sienko announced that the company he heads was planning to release the first prototype of the tank on the Armata platform in 2013. "Armata", according to the plans of the corporation, will be mass-produced from 2015, and until 2020, the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation will receive 2,3 thousand of these machines. "
    1. Yarbay
      Yarbay 1 July 2013 16: 23 New
      0
      Quote: sub307
      According to him, the current tank equipment, including the T-90 tank, was created on the T-72 platforms, the development of which has been exhausted.

      I don’t understand then why let’s say my country recently bought TOS-1 And they write that they built on the T-90 platform, what is the latest ??
      After all, is there a difference between the T-72 and T-90 platforms, or am I mistaken?
      1. Alekseev
        Alekseev 1 July 2013 18: 44 New
        +2
        What do you mean by the term platform? wink
        Something had not been consumed before, it is now a trendy word in use. Who understands about what, who is not, but they repeat everything. laughing
        Earlier in Russia (USSR) they said, for example, a bridge-layer on the basis of the T-55 tank.
        And the T-90 is based on, say, the platform, the T-72.
        True, tanks on the same "platform" may differ in combat effectiveness at times ...
        So what is the “platform” for promising BTT models?
        This is a set of components and assemblies: an engine, or rather MTO with all systems, transmission, chassis, PAZ, PPO, RHB protection systems.
        But the hulls in our time should be different, the tank and the self-propelled guns and other equipment cannot have the same level of protection.
        But the technology of their manufacture should be similar.
        Various weapons systems and SLAs are installed on this platform.
        What is not ready there: the Armata platform itself, or the tank on this platform, is covered in darkness.
        Wait and see.
        1. Yarbay
          Yarbay 1 July 2013 18: 48 New
          0
          Quote: Alekseev
          And the T-90 is based on, say, the platform, the T-72.

          so am I about it)))))
          they wrote that the new * suns * are made on the basis of the t-90, they say the old ones on the t-72))))))))))
          Buyers bred?)))))))))))
        2. Kars
          Kars 1 July 2013 20: 07 New
          +3
          Quote: Alekseev
          This is a set of components and assemblies: an engine, or rather MTO with all systems, transmission, chassis, PAZ, PPO, RHB protection systems.
          But the hulls in our time should be different, the tank and the self-propelled guns and other equipment cannot have the same level of protection.


          That's right. And that is how a self-propelled howitzer is fired from behind the second line, with tank frontal armor.
          Quote: Yarbay
          they wrote that the new * suns * are made on the basis of the t-90, they say the old ones on the t-72))))))))))

          I used to raise the topic there)) about the Solntsepeks, that means they should have new, specially made hulls, and not like Buratin from ready tanks.
        3. svp67
          svp67 2 July 2013 20: 43 New
          0
          Quote: Alekseev
          But the hulls in our time should be different, the tank and the self-propelled guns and other equipment cannot have the same level of protection.
          And here you are wrong, modern technologies allow you to make the SAME hull, but the level of protection for the machines of the "first line" - the tank and TBMP, can be raised due to the "protection modules" ...
          1. Alekseev
            Alekseev 3 July 2013 16: 41 New
            +1
            Quote: svp67
            ... modern technologies make it possible to make the SAME hull, but the level of protection for the machines of the "first line" - the tank and TBMP, can be raised due to the "protection modules" ..

            They allow a lot of things smile .
            But we should not forget that the "built-in" armor is also mechanical strength, and the modules are just overweight, in terms of mechanical strength.
            A classic historical example, though "from a different element" is the Il-2 attack aircraft.
            And whoever thinks that the tank’s hull is such a “whitewashed,” indestructible thing, is wrong.
            Deflection of the bottom, for example, is a common thing.
          2. Cynic
            Cynic 3 July 2013 17: 06 New
            0
            Quote: svp67
            but the level of protection ... can be raised due to the "protection modules" ...

            What protection? Specifically!
            Such a direct, one might even say naive, question. laughing
      2. uwzek
        uwzek 2 July 2013 04: 05 New
        0
        There is a difference between machines, between platforms - no. Moreover, if you keep in mind the TOCs ...
  • ed65b
    ed65b 1 July 2013 16: 41 New
    +1
    I read the memory of a tankman in the formidable 80 threw out due to failures of electronics and 72 fought.
    Something like that.
  • kirieeleyson
    kirieeleyson 1 July 2013 17: 31 New
    +5
    Dear comrades. I often arranged holivars here, cursed and called names on many respected forum users here. But while I’m here, I learned to respect opponents, listen to statements that I don’t like and find useful facts in them. I also learned to admit my mistakes, and those urapatriotic slogans that I wrote are the way out of the desired, but not always real. Therefore, to someone who reads my message - I would like to apologize for all of my negative verses that I wrote above. I am not a professor and not an expert, but a hereditary military man. All the same, sometimes it’s more important to read the comments than the news itself, which makes this site and the community my favorite. Something like this, I really wanted to sincerely apologize to everyone for their exercises.
  • soldier's grandson
    soldier's grandson 1 July 2013 17: 47 New
    0
    something a lot of talk for more than one year about the armature and it is not visible also the black shark was only shown and in the troops it is not
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 1 July 2013 17: 52 New
      +1
      also the black shark was only shown and in the troops it is not

      Of course not, there is her "son" - the Alligator.
      1. soldier's grandson
        soldier's grandson 1 July 2013 17: 57 New
        +1
        and her sons do not have much current in parades
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 1 July 2013 18: 54 New
          +1
          and her sons do not have much current in parades

          No, training of combat pilots is already in full swing. Cars come into service.
    2. Cynic
      Cynic 1 July 2013 18: 11 New
      +1
      Quote: soldier's grandson
      also the black shark was only shown and in the troops it is not

      The Ka-50 was adopted in 1995, I think it’s not necessary to continue further ...
      Ka-52 development of the 50s according to the comments of the Ministry of Defense.

      Ka-52 has already begun to enter the army.
      hi
  • xomaNN
    xomaNN 1 July 2013 17: 55 New
    +1
    Well, a naughty verbal slaughter, and, unfortunately, far from normal discussion :)) Guys, let's respect each other! The site is really interesting, do not scare new visitors.
    1. Cynic
      Cynic 1 July 2013 18: 42 New
      +3
      Quote: xomaNN
      Well, a naughty verbal slaughter,

      Yes holivar is pure water.
      I will express heretical I think _ And actually, why does Russia need Armata now, actually, like a tank? I will not touch on other options.
      Let us just take a sober look at it soberly, without this very frenzy of patriotism.
      Firstly _ Never wagon could not surpass the specialist in his field.
      Secondly _ With all the desire there will be nothing revolutionary in it, that's just about the uninhabited tower is not necessary. The current tower is already pulled by half-inhabited

      etc.
      1. Kars
        Kars 1 July 2013 20: 17 New
        +4
        Quote: Cynic
        But actually, why does Russia need Armata now, actually, like a tank?

        And the profit of UVZ? And its future owners?
        1. Cynic
          Cynic 1 July 2013 20: 32 New
          +2
          Quote: Kars
          And the profit of UVZ? And its future owners?

          Do you mean altruist? wink
  • soldier's grandson
    soldier's grandson 1 July 2013 18: 17 New
    0
    on this topic there is only a concussion, everyone has their own opinion, that's when the armature will receive armature in full volume and the battle test will pass then we can talk
  • bddrus
    bddrus 1 July 2013 18: 22 New
    0
    only the article was about nothing and then the second - but there are no less disputes
  • NickitaDembelnulsa
    NickitaDembelnulsa 1 July 2013 18: 38 New
    +5
    Here I presented that Armata will be presented just like Iphone 5, the General Designer will walk around the stage and tell the military who came to the presentation about the characteristics of the new tank, will announce the price for different models, with ammunition 32, 64, 128 shells. In general, the picture would be excellent)
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 1 July 2013 18: 56 New
      0
      I just imagined that Armata will be presented just like Iphone 5

      will announce the price for different models, with ammunition 32, 64, 128 shells

      Not respected, you still need to get enough sleep. Recommend. laughing
      1. NickitaDembelnulsa
        NickitaDembelnulsa 2 July 2013 04: 24 New
        0
        It's just a light addiction wink
        1. Check
          Check 2 July 2013 14: 50 New
          +1
          in the states like that and present))) make a show. for generals
  • The comment was deleted.
  • papas-57
    papas-57 1 July 2013 22: 32 New
    +1
    Yes, just nothing to show, and therefore darken. When there is something to show, they will call all those who need and who do not need, and the noise will not be measured. Who is needed - for knocking out prizes and awards, and who is not needed - for the number (and suddenly useful for something, there are absolutely no useless people). This is RUSSIA
  • BruderV
    BruderV 1 July 2013 23: 37 New
    +3
    Quote: Mechanic
    So the project was suspended by order of the Ministry of Defense

    And, well, apparently, as in the case of the already finished T-95 with a smart look, they will say that the object turned out to be so advanced and complex that just a shot from a new gun causes a local rupture of the space-time continuum and the formation of unstable microscopic black holes, which is why Obama’s ass in a parallel universe ceases to produce melanin and it turns white, and this is a guaranteed apocalypse. Why am I all this? In short, due to excessive complexity, the good old T-90MS will be purchased, it is also unsinkable T-72 during the last reincarnation.
    1. Locksmith
      Locksmith 2 July 2013 00: 46 New
      0
      Quote: BruderV
      In short, due to excess complexity, they will purchase the good old T-90MS

      It’s not enough to come up with new equipment, you still need to have developed production of YOUR electronics and electrical engineering, and in our country a little strain has arisen in connection with recent events, just like after the war = collapse. New factories are being built and when they are ready to give the required equipment, then all the ingenious plans will be realized on time, and now I suspect that it is partially built on the imported element base, which is apparently unacceptable. In fact, reading the forum, you can understand from some statements that the problem is like once in the periphery-locators -optics -video-servo systems, and not in iron, the iron successfully rolled on another T95.
    2. Argon
      Argon 2 July 2013 02: 29 New
      0
      Let’s hope that the situation will turn out like with PAK FA. How many words have been said, how many copies are broken, and the feat you fly. Nowadays it’s a miracle, just because it flew, even if it’s not yet a fighter, but it’s now confident You can say, "It will."
  • lord
    lord 1 July 2013 23: 52 New
    0
    it’s more likely to look what they came up with there so secret ...
  • sergey158-29
    sergey158-29 2 July 2013 02: 35 New
    +1
    Quote: “Armata”: silence that has no analogues ...
    But as for me, the ordinary Soviet reality, when in the “West” Soviet weapons were shown in full at “Discovery”, in the USSR even for servicemen under a “big secret”, not to mention civilians ... We have “no secrets” from enemies ", and from the people - the taxpayer ...
  • The comment was deleted.
  • t-95
    t-95 2 July 2013 06: 54 New
    0
    Good afternoon. And yet, I still did not understand where the information came from that the work on the new tank had stopped? I understand that there is no trust in everything that the authorities say, I understand that for more than 20 years we have been dizzy with our democracy. But I have no reason not to believe that the current rearmament program will not be implemented. And all attempts to start to moan ahead of time, it painfully looks like the fact that youth is gone and the times are not the same. And Mr. Mechanic, whether he wants it or not, the first to be rude
  • Best novel
    Best novel 2 July 2013 09: 10 New
    -2
    Borisov said that the promising Armata main battle tank, which is being created now, will surpass all existing foreign vehicles of this class in its combat characteristics. Moreover, the Deputy Minister of Defense said that the characteristics and capabilities of “Almaty” will be higher than that of similar foreign machines currently being developed. After that, he said that he (Borisov) has the longest, thickest and hardest in the world and analogues 100-200 years will not appear in nature. According to all indicators, it’s better only for Putin. But he didn’t show it, he was modest, and the current ruler loves mainly with his ears.
    1. t-95
      t-95 2 July 2013 10: 57 New
      0
      I have not read a more stupid comment.
  • t-95
    t-95 2 July 2013 11: 00 New
    +2
    Dogs bark, the caravan goes on.