Military Review

The Verkhovna Rada has a bill on the abolition of non-aligned status of Ukraine

121



A few days ago a bill was introduced in the Ukrainian parliament to introduce some changes in the laws of Ukraine, in particular, regarding the country's course in foreign policy (the acquisition of full membership in NATO). The author of the bill was the Opposition MP, a representative of the Batkivshchyna Party, Vyacheslav Kirilenko. Despite the fact that the text of this document is not available on the website of the parliament, the author of the draft itself says in his comments that the main purpose of adopting this bill is to abandon the non-blocking policy of the Ukrainian state in the field of national security, as well as to fix the country's policy at the legislative level for full membership of Ukraine in the North Atlantic Alliance. In particular, Kirilenko says that after Viktor Yanukovych was elected head of state in 2010, the government announced that it intends to change the country's course in implementing foreign policy security, defined in 2003 by the law “On the Fundamentals of Ukraine’s National Security”. The essence of the law was that Ukraine seeks to acquire membership in NATO - the most effective in the world and the only European collective security system that was created within the framework of the alliance.

Kirilenko also noted that the state refused to receive guarantees to ensure territorial integrity, state sovereignty, the inviolability of state borders, choosing instead military neutrality, which is unprofitable in modern conditions from the point of view of politics, economy and state security. He also expressed confidence that Euro-Atlantic integration will help accelerate the process of European integration and bring Ukraine’s entry into the European Union closer.

Earlier, in 2010, the Ukrainian parliament passed a law on the non-aligned status of the state. According to this document, the basic principle of Ukraine’s foreign policy is to observe the non-bloc policy of the state, that is, non-participation in military-political alliances and organizations, participation in the development and improvement of the European collective security system, as well as the development of constructive cooperation with the North Atlantic Alliance and other international organizations and military-political blocs on all issues of interest to both parties.

Due to the inconsistency of the situation, it makes sense to analyze whether Ukraine should join NATO or not. Judging objectively, experts say, the non-aligned status of the Ukrainian state can provide it with much more than a hypothetical membership in the bloc. First of all, it should be noted that non-alignment means that no one in the world regards Ukraine as a source of a real threat. In addition, non-alignment does not contradict the course towards European integration. And in the event that Ukraine becomes a member of the European Union, the EU will be replenished as the seventh non-aligned state after Sweden, Austria, Finland, Malta, Ireland and Cyprus. What is not unimportant is that the non-aligned status will help to remove from the agenda the very problematic issue of Ukraine’s membership in NATO, which causes many problems in building trust relations between Kiev and the key EU states. In the end, the leading heads of state are much more willing to support the entry into the European Union of a peaceful, non-irritating state. In addition, non-alignment contributes to the establishment of a new level of trust between Ukraine and its main partners, creating favorable conditions for the development of trade and economic relations.

In addition, the non-aligned status will not jeopardize Ukraine’s relations with the alliance and will not become an obstacle to the participation of the Ukrainian state in international peacekeeping operations and missions, but with one advantage — the country will decide which missions to participate in, which forces to use and whether to do it at all. Ukraine will still be able to attract NATO experts in the course of military reform.

It is also important that the non-aligned status is one of the few factors that are currently able to somehow unite the eastern and western regions of the country, because this idea is supported by the majority of the Ukrainian population. Out-of-blockingness fully responds to the reluctance of the Ukrainians' unwillingness to take part in foreign armed conflicts.

And yet - even if Ukraine becomes a member of the North Atlantic Alliance, there are no guarantees that, if necessary, in the event of an armed conflict, the members of the bloc will be able and willing to help her.

As for Ukrainian analysts and experts, their opinions as to whether Ukraine should look for ways to join the military-political bloc or maintain its non-aligned status are divided.

Thus, according to Vasily Stoyakin, director of the Center for Political Marketing, after Viktor Yanukovych came to power, little has changed in the matter of relations between Ukraine and NATO. After the adoption of the law on the basics of foreign and domestic security, which presupposes the non-alignment of the state, the legislative acts that provide for the change of the Ukrainian armed forces according to NATO standards have not changed. And this, according to the expert, provides many opportunities for maneuvers of the Ukrainian political elite. Thus, at any time there is a threat that any power, real or future, will be able to note the law on state security without any problems and join NATO.

As political scientist Alexander Paly predicts, a rapprochement of the Ukrainian state with the North Atlantic alliance is quite possible. The fact is that between the two parties there are some common interests, in particular, in the field of security in Europe. Neither side wants war, the emergence of millions of refugees, the redistribution of borders. Therefore, according to the expert, even with the existence of a non-aligned status, the convergence process can be accelerated.

Similar optimism does not share the deputy Anatoly Seminoga. Without abandoning the prospect of Ukraine joining NATO, the politician at the same time says that the internal policy of the state currently does not provide an opportunity to move towards gaining membership in the bloc.

According to the communist Alexander Golub, the entry of Ukraine into the North Atlantic Alliance is inexpedient. The politician is convinced that NATO is just an improvised means of America for carrying out its policy in Europe, which does not provide for the existence of Ukraine as an independent state, and using it as a pawn in political games with Russia. Therefore, until the essence of the block changes, it is unproductive and pointless to consider the question of joining it. According to A.Golub, the majority of the Ukrainian population shares such thoughts. And if the majority of residents opposes membership in NATO, then the acceleration of the process of rapprochement between the parties is not in the public opinion or national interests.

Vasyl Volga is convinced that the North Atlantic Alliance is currently irrelevant for Ukraine, and that there are other, more interesting projects. According to the politician, the alliance has lost its value and can no longer provide the proper level of protection. In addition, Ukraine needs its own efficient modern army, and not the hope that someone will protect it in case of anything.

Thus, it can be concluded that in theory most experts theoretically allow Ukraine to join NATO, but in the distant future. And the situation currently remains unchanged - Ukraine does not cease to cooperate with the military-political bloc, but does not think to enter yet. And how events will develop further - life will show ...

Materials used:
http://www.unian.net/news/580079-v-vr-predlagayut-zakrepit-kurs-ukrainyi-na-vstuplenie-v-nato.html
http://vlasti.net/news/29729
http://www.otechestvo.org.ua/main/20112/1809.htm
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  1. Alexander Romanov
    Alexander Romanov 1 July 2013 07: 49 New
    20
    In short, another blah blah blah and no more. There is no text in the document, there are comments of this type and let's discuss everything. But what is there to discuss ??? The entry of Ukraine into NATO, but Ukraine will not be in NATO !!! Everything else is empty chatter hi
    1. Canep
      Canep 1 July 2013 08: 12 New
      +4
      If Ukraine joins NATO, I suspect Russia's response will be extremely harsh: 100% visa regime (the alliance itself will require this by the way), gas at a sky-high price, and much more can be invented. But at the same time, Russia will most likely have to leave Sevastopol.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 1 July 2013 08: 16 New
        15
        Quote: Canep
        If Ukraine joins NATO

        There won’t even be IF !!! Ukraine will not join NATO and that’s it. IMHO
        1. Nicholas C.
          Nicholas C. 1 July 2013 08: 19 New
          +7
          Ukraine has serious pre-default problems. No one is lending (except Gazprom). Own gold and foreign exchange reserves are minuscule. The already meager budget (less than 40 billion E) is trying to fill up with ever-increasing taxes and excise taxes. Because the emergence of customs authorities of the CU has reduced revenues from traditional exports to the CU. The most active and qualified specialists continue to leave Nenko Ukraine in search of a better fate.
          Since the leadership of Ukraine is not able to formulate economic goals and objectives (and then political ones based on them, "get off the fence") that would lead to real economic growth in Ukraine, as it is in fact, there is extremist panic and hysteria. In such circumstances, only the lazy will not try to rock the boat.
          1. MG42
            MG42 1 July 2013 15: 58 New
            +4
            Quote: Nikolay S.
            . No one is lending (except Gazprom).

            Do you know what the last Gazprom loan for NAC was issued for? And what are the conditions there?
            1. MG42
              MG42 1 July 2013 21: 34 New
              +2
              That the question does not hang in the air ... Gazprom <just like that> does not give money on credit >>

              Ukraine will pump gas into underground storage facilities for the heating season on credit. This year, Gazprom decided to allocate a billion dollars to Naftogaz as an advance for transit. Representatives of the Ukrainian authorities call this a necessity. Experts say that Naftogaz continues to get stuck in debt, and these advance payments may force Ukrtransgaz to seek funds to ensure the reliability of transit.
              Gazprom decided to provide Naftogaz with an advance for fuel transit one and a half years in advance. It's about a billion dollars. The advance payment is intended for the purchase by the Ukrainian company of gas for filling underground storage facilities. This is necessary so that Naftogaz can fulfill its obligations for the continuous supply of Russian gas to Europe in the winter, Gazprom said.
              1. skrgar
                skrgar 1 July 2013 22: 06 New
                0
                Quote: MG42
                That the question does not hang in the air ... Gazprom <just like that> does not give money on credit >>

                Ukraine will pump gas into underground storage facilities for the heating season on credit. This year, Gazprom decided to allocate a billion dollars to Naftogaz as an advance for transit. Representatives of the Ukrainian authorities call this a necessity. Experts say that Naftogaz continues to get stuck in debt, and these advance payments may force Ukrtransgaz to seek funds to ensure the reliability of transit.
                Gazprom decided to provide Naftogaz with an advance for fuel transit one and a half years in advance. It's about a billion dollars. The advance payment is intended for the purchase by the Ukrainian company of gas for filling underground storage facilities. This is necessary so that Naftogaz can fulfill its obligations for the continuous supply of Russian gas to Europe in the winter, Gazprom said.

                It seems that already literally last night Gazprom refused to pump gas into Ukrainian storages .. with the wording "we are not discussing this issue for ever and more! Because the leadership of Ukraine is constantly changing its agreements" .. In general, how much gas was purchased, so much was received ..
                1. MG42
                  MG42 1 July 2013 22: 12 New
                  +2
                  Quote: skrgar
                  Like already, just last night,

                  Is there a link that the arrangements have changed?
                  I have today's number
                  http://segodnya.novostimira.com/n_4793093.html
                  1. skrgar
                    skrgar 1 July 2013 23: 28 New
                    0
                    Вот..10 часов назад..http://www.km.ru/v-rossii/2013/07/01/714827-gazprom-pokhoronil-evropeiski
                    i-gazovyi-khab-na-ukraine And the decision was made the day before yesterday at the shareholders meeting ..
                    1. MG42
                      MG42 2 July 2013 00: 07 New
                      +2
                      Yes, I opened this link and it says
                      The last such advance in the amount of one billion dollars was recently provided by the Russian concern to Naftogaz Ukrainy and she’s not going to do this anymore, at least until 2015.


                      Read more: http://www.km.ru/v-rossii/2013/07/01/714827-gazprom-pokhoronil-evropeiskii-gazov

                      yi-khab-na-ukraine
                      I'm talking about this billion US dollars actually ..
                      1. skrgar
                        skrgar 2 July 2013 00: 11 New
                        +1
                        Quote: MG42
                        Yes, I opened this link and it says
                        The last such advance in the amount of one billion dollars was recently provided by the Russian concern to Naftogaz Ukrainy and she’s not going to do this anymore, at least until 2015.


                        Read more: http://www.km.ru/v-rossii/2013/07/01/714827-gazprom-pokhoronil-evropeiskii-gazov

                        yi-khab-na-ukraine

                        Well, it’s tougher from Miller .. (I know in Moscow and on the sidelines that Ukraine decided not to give anything, that's for sure .. And Putin did not interfere in the decisions of the shareholders) .. Here is the link ..http: //regnum.ru/ news / fd-abroad / ukraina / 1677881.html
                      2. MG42
                        MG42 2 July 2013 00: 17 New
                        +3
                        So this is for 28.06.2013/01.07.2013/XNUMX, and we say for XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX, life is fleeting, everything flows, everything changes .. hi
        2. Capt.stryker
          Capt.stryker 2 July 2013 17: 55 New
          0
          Quote: Nikolay S.
          Ukraine has serious pre-default problems. No one is lending (except Gazprom). Own gold and foreign exchange reserves are minuscule. The already meager budget (less than 40 billion E) is trying to fill up with ever-increasing taxes and excise taxes.

          And what would happen to Russia now if it were not dependent on oil and gas drugs !?
          Quote: Nikolay S.
          The most active and qualified specialists continue to leave Nenko Ukraine in search of a better fate.

          Look at your Russia! How many people flee from it - a highly skilled people - in search of a better life! And not to the DPRK !, not to Iran !, not to Syria, not to China! not to Venezuela, and not even to Cuba! They flee to the hated Europe, the States, Canada, Australia !!!
      2. Canep
        Canep 1 July 2013 08: 51 New
        +3
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Ukraine will not join NATO and that’s it. IMHO

        This is most likely, just as it will not join the European Union. And it will continue to hang out like something in an ice hole, unless of course a person like Putin comes to power, and such a thing has not yet been observed on the Ukrainian political horizon.
        1. Fin
          Fin 1 July 2013 17: 00 New
          +2
          There was one such one - Kushneryov, but Yanukovych did not save (liquidate) him on his stupid head, and now there is no one to put in successors. So I would sit calmly and not twitch.
      3. Skavron
        Skavron 1 July 2013 10: 13 New
        +5
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Ukraine will not join NATO and that’s it. IMHO

        That's right!
        Another govnovybros!
        1. Axel
          Axel 2 July 2013 20: 04 New
          -3
          Do a good deed, take your children to Raska, let them live among the beauties of Mordovia and Chuvashia.
          Your children will never become their own in Ukraine, you will always be strangers here !!!
          People without a homeland who hate the country in which they live!
          1. Skavron
            Skavron 2 July 2013 21: 07 New
            0
            Quote: Axel
            Do a good deed, take your children to the rashka,

            is it kament to me?
            I'm in shock !!!
            my epaulets are gray, because they consider Russophobe and Natsik done, and you my friend wrote me down as haters of Ukraine ...
            yes ... people can neither read nor think ...
      4. Letterksi
        Letterksi 1 July 2013 12: 34 New
        +6
        Will not enter! It will simply be that Russia will constantly blackmail in political negotiations on gas, that if you don’t lower the price, I’ll definitely enter.

        The NATO bloc is already cracking at the seams, and Ukraine ... as always distinguished itself lol more precisely her leadership
        1. Thunderbolt
          Thunderbolt 1 July 2013 16: 18 New
          +4
          Quote: LetterKsi
          The NATO bloc is already cracking at the seams, and Ukraine ... as always, its leadership excelled more precisely
          However, political continuity can be traced.
          1. MG42
            MG42 1 July 2013 16: 23 New
            +4
            Quote: Thunderbolt
            However, political continuity can be traced.

            Yushchenko, of course, is no longer at the political Olympus of Ukraine, but you can remember >>
            1. Thunderbolt
              Thunderbolt 1 July 2013 16: 39 New
              +3
              I am far from your vicissitudes, but what comes is funny, but also alarming ... In vain we are wasting time, opportunity and future. Keep me seven: NATO is a likely threat to Russia. Where did the pan gather belay Generally, yes .......
              1. MG42
                MG42 1 July 2013 16: 48 New
                +4
                Yes, this bill will fail because the opposition’s parliament simply does not have enough votes, and the deputies run away from them again, author Kirilenko = yes he can write a lot of things and all this will go to the trash. yes The issue of NATO is not on the agenda and in the bills required to be adopted in the Rada on EU requirements for signing an association agreement, it is not listed, >> it is not necessary to take this seriously ..
                1. Thunderbolt
                  Thunderbolt 1 July 2013 17: 06 New
                  +1
                  Well, certain forces will still be manipulating on the NATO theme, in a word it’s a stick that they will periodically try to put into the Ukrainian wheel. More minus than zero or plus.
                  Quote: MG42
                  don't take it seriously ..
                  Well, maybe)))
                  1. MG42
                    MG42 1 July 2013 21: 41 New
                    +3
                    Alexey, now this topic is not in trend under Yanukovych,
                    Quote: Thunderbolt
                    .Larger minus than zero or plus.

                    To make it clear who the author of the bill is to Russian colleagues >> I will post a short video clip from the Ukrainian polit. show lol Vyacheslav Kirilenko = the one who is hysterical in a gray suit ..
                    1. skrgar
                      skrgar 1 July 2013 22: 15 New
                      +1
                      Yeah .. dope ..
                    2. MG42
                      MG42 1 July 2013 22: 28 New
                      +4
                      And this circus goes live on the first national channel in prime time ..
                    3. Thunderbolt
                      Thunderbolt 1 July 2013 22: 34 New
                      0
                      Yes, the hero is still the main fun good
            2. vitamin
              vitamin ky 2 July 2013 01: 17 New
              +3
              Quote: Thunderbolt
              I am far from your vicissitudes, but what comes is funny, but also alarming ... In vain we are wasting time, opportunity and future. Keep me seven: NATO is a likely threat to Russia. Where did the pan gather belay Generally, yes .......

              that is what it is - the impression is that those holding power for 10 years have been measured out for life - it’s most offensive that everyone repeats all adykvat people understand that 000 years of life !!!! countries and its people are thrown into the trash sad how so? —and so wasting valuable time on empty empty floodlights for public relations — it’s just miraculously, unpardonably and humanly insulting the country for people-scribe recourse
    2. vitamin
      vitamin ky 2 July 2013 01: 09 New
      +2
      OH is somehow restless at heart - and in general, what kind of quiet movements do the people want to make, they don’t make it, though I’m not special on such issues, are they not decided by the general referendum, by the people ????????? ????????
  2. smprofi
    smprofi 1 July 2013 12: 54 New
    -1
    Quote: Canep
    If Ukraine joins NATO, I suspect Russia's response will be extremely harsh

    yes you sho!

    18 March 1998 - the official opening of the Russian mission to NATO.
    16 February 2000 - the visit of the NATO Secretary General to Moscow, the resumption of cooperation in all areas of activity in the framework of the Russia-NATO ATP.
    May 28, 2002 - adoption of the Declaration of the Heads of State and Government of the Russian Federation and NATO Member States in Rome, the establishment of the Russia-NATO Council.
    In June, the 2005 of the year at a meeting of the NRC at the level of ministers of defense approved the Political-Military Guidelines to increase the level of interoperability of troops (forces) of Russia and NATO countries, i.e. justified the transition of the Russian army to NATO standards and equipping with NATO military equipment.
    On March 22, 2007, President V. Putin, continuing the policies of B. Yeltsin and A. Kozyrev, opens Russia open for NATO, by submitting for ratification to the State Duma and the Federation Council of the Russian Federation immediately the main documents in the form of NATO Law N 99-ФЗ: Agreement between the states - by the parties to the North Atlantic Treaty and other states participating in the Partnership for Peace program, on the status of their Forces of June 19, 1995 (hereinafter the Agreement of 1995) was signed on behalf of the Russian Federation in Vilnius on April 21, 2005, Additional The protocol to it was signed in Sofia on April 28, 2006.
    From 2001 to 2011, NATO deployed more than 100 thousand soldiers and officers with weapons, equipment and equipment to Afghanistan through Russian airspace.

    Quote: Canep
    100% visa regime

    in accordance with the "Agreements ..." NATO troops are not subject to passport and visa control upon entry and exit through the border of the Russian Federation

    Quote: Canep
    sky-high gas

    and now gas at the minimum? or even for nothing? by the way ... what's the difference? you would think that a simple Russian would see this money ...

    Quote: Canep
    and much more you can think of

    Oh! Yes, no! the main thing is to tear the throat along with the lower chest! and at this time, the Kremlin will kiss the gums with NATO.
    1. Nazrug
      Nazrug 1 July 2013 13: 31 New
      +1
      and now gas at the minimum? or even for nothing? by the way ... what's the difference? you would think that a simple Russian would see this money ...
      - But why is the salary of the military, doctors, teachers, pension for retirees increased, or are these not ordinary people?) With taxes that Gazprom pays, too.
      1. smprofi
        smprofi 1 July 2013 16: 07 New
        -4
        Quote: Nazrug
        and why increased the salary of the military, doctors, teachers, pension to pensioners

        um ... if I only watched ORT / RTR / NTV - I would believe you. but, unfortunately for you, I have a bunch of relatives in Russia, in different regions. there are doctors, there are military pensioners, there are simply pensioners. so that...
        Leave the slogans for the rally.
        1. skrgar
          skrgar 1 July 2013 22: 13 New
          +1
          Quote: smprofi
          Quote: Nazrug
          and why increased the salary of the military, doctors, teachers, pension to pensioners

          um ... if I only watched ORT / RTR / NTV - I would believe you. but, unfortunately for you, I have a bunch of relatives in Russia, in different regions. there are doctors, there are military pensioners, there are simply pensioners. so that...
          Leave the slogans for the rally.

          No question .. WHERE are relatives ?? You can specifically answer HOW THERE !! !! Even 2-3-4tem more than 5-6 years ago it was worse than now..Here ask them .. Now is better ..or "yesterday" ???
          1. smprofi
            smprofi 1 July 2013 23: 23 New
            -1
            Quote: skrgar
            Even 2-3-4the more than 5-6 years ago it was worse than now

            Excuse me, when did Ukraine raise the price of gas? with the arrival of Ryabogo, since 2005. it’s not 3-4-5-6 years ago, but EIGHT!
            Quote: skrgar
            Is it better now .. or "yesterday" ???

            why ask? I already communicate regularly. the benefit of tyrnet was not turned off and scype in Russia so far (so far, because there were news that ...) have not been banned.
            the funny thing is that I communicate with Russians not only here on topwar. yes, there is enough everywhere for the patriots and defenders of the Tsar-Ampirator Vseya Gazprom. on one resource even grabbed a ban. but what’s noteworthy is that there are enough sensible people who answer the question “did you personally begin to live better?” honestly answer no. those. gas price, Gazprom's income to ordinary people to bast shoes! really.
            by the way ... what am I talking about? do I really have the opportunity to force or convince a person not only critically, but even just to really look at the world around us?
    2. Moon
      Moon 1 July 2013 18: 08 New
      +4
      Many cooperate with NATO, including Russia and Kazakhstan.

      COOPERATE, but do not climb into members.
      Catch the difference?

      in accordance with the "Agreements ..." NATO troops are not subject to passport and visa control upon entry and exit through the border of the Russian Federation

      Liberast nonsense, walking for many years in the Internet.
    3. Capt.stryker
      Capt.stryker 2 July 2013 18: 06 New
      0
      Quote: smprofi
      Quote: Canep
      If Ukraine joins NATO, I suspect Russia's response will be extremely harsh
      yes you sho!

      18 March 1998 - the official opening of the Russian mission to NATO.
      16 February 2000 - the visit of the NATO Secretary General to Moscow, the resumption of cooperation in all areas of activity in the framework of the Russia-NATO ATP.
      May 28, 2002 - adoption of the Declaration of the Heads of State and Government of the Russian Federation and NATO Member States in Rome, the establishment of the Russia-NATO Council.
      In June, the 2005 of the year at a meeting of the NRC at the level of ministers of defense approved the Political-Military Guidelines to increase the level of interoperability of troops (forces) of Russia and NATO countries, i.e. justified the transition of the Russian army to NATO standards and equipping with NATO military equipment.
      On March 22, 2007, President V. Putin, continuing the policies of B. Yeltsin and A. Kozyrev, opens Russia open for NATO, by submitting for ratification to the State Duma and the Federation Council of the Russian Federation immediately the main documents in the form of NATO Law N 99-ФЗ: Agreement between the states - by the parties to the North Atlantic Treaty and other states participating in the Partnership for Peace program, on the status of their Forces of June 19, 1995 (hereinafter the Agreement of 1995) was signed on behalf of the Russian Federation in Vilnius on April 21, 2005, Additional The protocol to it was signed in Sofia on April 28, 2006.
      From 2001 to 2011, NATO deployed more than 100 thousand soldiers and officers with weapons, equipment and equipment to Afghanistan through Russian airspace.

      Exactly! Russia behaves like a jealous prostitute! The client herself hates fiercely, but her friend is also prevented from twisting love with him!
  3. Tersky
    Tersky 1 July 2013 12: 58 New
    +6
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    In short, another blah blah blah and no more.

    an article from the category - resetting th @ on to a fan, not deadly but extremely nasty and unpleasant ... MINUS definitely
    1. smprofi
      smprofi 1 July 2013 16: 08 New
      0
      Quote: Tersky
      not deadly but extremely disgusting and unpleasant ... MINUS definitely

      and yes!
  4. Ross
    Ross 1 July 2013 14: 36 New
    +2
    Quote: Canep
    If Ukraine joins NATO, I suspect Russia's response will be extremely harsh: 100% visa regime (the alliance itself will require this by the way), gas at a sky-high price, and much more can be invented. But at the same time, Russia will most likely have to leave Sevastopol.


    To avoid the “if” itself, Ukraine just needs to make it clear that Russia will not tolerate such an option.
  5. bereg
    bereg 1 July 2013 15: 02 New
    +1
    this is a PR of individuals, Russia will not leave Sevastopol. just like that centuries under our protection. the Ukrainian people themselves will not allow this. not who and when did not hear about this (personality) of the author
  6. Stamp
    Stamp 1 July 2013 15: 22 New
    +3
    Quote: Canep
    But at the same time, Russia will most likely have to leave Sevastopol.

    With the base of a foreign state in the territory it is not possible to join NATO. And without a popular Ukrainian referendum, too. The Ukrainian authorities do not want to do so in every way.
  7. MG42
    MG42 1 July 2013 16: 02 New
    +4
    Quote: Canep
    gas at a sky-high price, and much more you can think of.

    And now the price of gas for Ukraine is close to the average European one, especially if you take into account that the transport shoulder is much less.
  8. mark1
    mark1 1 July 2013 19: 05 New
    0
    Quote: Canep
    If Ukraine joins NATO, I suspect Russia's response will be extremely harsh: 100% visa regime (the alliance itself will require this by the way), gas at a sky-high price, and much more can be invented. But at the same time, Russia will most likely have to leave Sevastopol.

    The Big Agreement will be terminated and Russia will claim the rights to Sevastopol. The most terrible and bloody enmity is enmity between relatives, it is better not to bring it to this.
    1. teodorh
      teodorh 1 July 2013 20: 36 New
      0
      Quote: mark1
      Russia will claim the rights to Sevastopol.


      Stupidity.
      Will Russia file territorial claims against NATO member? Will start a war?
      1. poquello
        poquello 1 July 2013 23: 11 New
        +1
        "Nonsense.
        Will Russia file territorial claims against NATO member? Will start a war? "

        They clearly wrote “present” to you, and whether there will be war to fight or not, that’s the problem of Nata - do not hell to protect countries with explosive problems.
        And in light of the pop-up information "which everyone already knows", it is possible that Germany or the United States will drop out of the net, is it a joke to consider a member of the alliance as a likely adversary.
  9. biglow
    biglow 1 July 2013 19: 31 New
    0
    Quote: Canep
    If Ukraine joins NATO, I suspect Russia's response will be extremely harsh: 100% visa regime (the alliance itself will require this by the way), gas at a sky-high price, and much more can be invented. But at the same time, Russia will most likely have to leave Sevastopol.

    Russia will not leave Sevastopol, locals will not release
  10. sichevik
    sichevik 2 July 2013 16: 54 New
    0
    But at the expense of Sevastopol - the grandmother said in two. There we will see ...
    If there is no Russian fleet in Sevastopol, then there will be NATO. Do we need it? So that we will not leave Sevastopol in any case.
  11. Capt.stryker
    Capt.stryker 2 July 2013 17: 47 New
    -1
    Quote: Canep
    If Ukraine joins NATO, then I suspect Russia's response will be extremely harsh:

    Is it "extremely tough"? Is that what?
    Quote: Canep
    100% visa regime (the alliance itself will require this by the way), gas at a sky-high price,

    Russia itself repels Ukraine from itself! The same gas is sold to Ukraine at sky-high prices, more expensive than all other countries already part of NATO!
    So this problem is solved - we will stop buying gas from you, but we will buy your own gas from other NATO countries, at not sky-high prices! And there is also an alternative that irritates the Kremlin very much - shale gas.

    Quote: Canep
    and much more you can think of.

    What else will you come up with? You are so stupid anti-Ukrainian propaganda in the media!
  • Kolya
    Kolya 1 July 2013 08: 47 New
    +2
    Unhappy Ukrainians, how politicians manipulate their lives ...
    1. INTER
      INTER 1 July 2013 09: 23 New
      +2
      Politicians in Ukraine are like dissidents. Flirting with blocs and countries, meanwhile, the country is moving systematically into the Stone Age. They take debts when they possess powerful scientific, production, and resource potentials. And for happiness, there is no need for a special mind, integration with Russia, a single economic space, Russian investment, tourism development (because the Russians will travel less to Egypt, Turkey ..). And most importantly: “IN THE WEST, UKRAINE DOESN’T NEED ANYONE, BUT IF I NEED TO BE USED UNTIL I CAN AND THROW OUT AS HELP. And this is not only for Ukraine, but for all CIS countries.
      1. teodorh
        teodorh 1 July 2013 12: 44 New
        0
        Quote: INTER
        there is no need for a special mind, integration with Russia


        We integrated with Russia, but I would not say that everyone here is happy.
    2. Captain Vrungel
      Captain Vrungel 1 July 2013 10: 29 New
      +3
      You're right. There are no politicians in Ukraine. There are politicians who crawled into the politics of business, there are bandits. brazenly replacing the Constitution with their concepts. What unites them is theft. The first, legalized thieves, the second thieves in law.
      The top is not thinking about Ukraine, it is to her fecal place. The top thinks to whom it is more profitable to sell in purely personal interests. Opposition, coalition, Brownian movement of politicians cockroaches in the Bank of Rada. Ready for anything, for any "sacrifice", for the sake of a loved one, especially where it would be more comfortable to attach your ass. Do not confuse their relationship with politics. These are two big differences. Not only do not intersect, but also are not observed in parallel. Who does not agree, prove the opposite. So far, not a single politician is visible on the foreseeable horizon. Solid banditry from that terricone region are biting with colleagues from the Carpathian caches.
    3. smprofi
      smprofi 1 July 2013 12: 56 New
      -3
      Quote: Kohl
      Unhappy Ukrainians how politicians manipulate their lives

      happy Russians! The Kremlin hangs noodles on the ears about the "threat of NATa", and he has a tender friendship with this NATO
      1. fokino1980
        fokino1980 1 July 2013 21: 49 New
        +1
        Well, here are the first “combat” losses from Shuster Life laughing Keep it up! hi
  • avt
    avt 1 July 2013 09: 49 New
    +3
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    In short, another blah blah blah and no more. There is no text in the document, there are comments of this type and let's discuss everything. But what is there to discuss ???

    There really is nothing to discuss here, it simply states the rejection of the status of a neutral state, and one hundred pounds implies the introduction of NATO troops in a crisis situation for the authorities, without any entry into the bloc. Slowly but surely, Ukraine is being made fallow under a geyvropu.
  • alexdol
    alexdol 1 July 2013 08: 04 New
    11
    The fact that the majority of the population of eastern Ukraine is against joining NATO is known to be for the western part only. The propaganda of the NATO bloc has long been carried out in Ukraine, so I think this is an ALARM signal !!! We have already talked about changing the status of non-blocking! Anything can be expected from the "independent"! Conclusion: we must rather unite with RUSSIA and BELARUS in one state!
    1. Arberes
      Arberes 1 July 2013 08: 28 New
      +2
      Quote: alexdol
      The fact that the majority of the population of eastern Ukraine is against joining NATO is known to be for the western part only.

      Honestly, I am glad to read your lines, dear alexdol (1)
      I have always been sympathetic to Ukraine and its people drinks
      You would have let this hog named Kirilenko into the bacon. Let the water not stir up and it makes you sick! hi
    2. omsbon
      omsbon 1 July 2013 10: 13 New
      +2
      Quote: alexdol
      Conclusion: we must rather unite with RUSSIA and BELARUS in one state!

      Golden words, but they need to be backed up with deeds, and Ukrainian "politicians" are busy with something completely different!
      1. Cat
        Cat 1 July 2013 10: 30 New
        +3
        Quote: omsbon
        Golden words, but they need to be backed up with deeds, and Ukrainian "politicians" are busy with something completely different!

        and Russian "politicians", what are you doing? Not in terms of demonstrating Kuzkin’s mother to sworn Western friends, but in terms of improving their own country?
        Our people here, even deigned to send some to places not so remote. And in all of enormous Russia, is there even one sider comparable in rank to our SE? Saw your money - our sales to “businessmen from politics” will not dream of such amounts under fly agaric.
        PS: sitters in an elite 13-room cell do not count.
        1. mark1
          mark1 1 July 2013 19: 11 New
          0
          Quote: Cat
          And in all of enormous Russia, is there even one sider comparable in rank to our SE?

          Well, Khodarkovsky and Lebedev are also “handsome”. And howling in the west was, perhaps, no less, and maybe more.
    3. Check
      Check 1 July 2013 12: 55 New
      0
      Quote: alexdol
      The fact that the majority of the population of eastern Ukraine is against joining NATO, it is known that only the western part can be

      and in local networks (in Ukraine) how are things on this issue?
      1. Skavron
        Skavron 1 July 2013 14: 28 New
        +2
        Quote: Check
        and in local networks (in Ukraine) how are things on this issue?

        believe, most are not interested in this topic at all
        1. fokino1980
          fokino1980 1 July 2013 21: 47 New
          +1
          I believe! And I know that! Shit on everyone "
  • Cat
    Cat 1 July 2013 08: 06 New
    +6
    The only country that has officially filed territorial claims against Ukraine is Romania. Member of NATO, if anyone is not in the know. "Democratic world community" on this issue, Romania supported.
    And if after that someone else blames for Ukraine’s entry into this same NATU - well ... medicine, in this case, is powerless. Unless amputation of the upper torso.
  • PDM80
    PDM80 1 July 2013 08: 45 New
    +1
    Not the modern leadership of Ukraine is something. The EU is bursting at the seams, and that look will fall apart, but they want to go there. But who needs you there, another hemorrhoids from eastern Europe, the EU will not get itself !!!!
  • fenix57
    fenix57 1 July 2013 08: 45 New
    0
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    Ukraine will not join NATO and all

    Because they will not let her go! winkRussia will not let it go!
    1. fokino1980
      fokino1980 1 July 2013 21: 45 New
      -2
      Well yes! And then they obey? laughing They will enter us into evil, even into the LGBD league of licking against "moskaliv" drinks
  • Constantine
    Constantine 1 July 2013 09: 03 New
    +2
    Hand face.

    And yes, they won’t enter the EU, and NATO, too. Turkey fought for it for many years and nothing. The Fatherland are traitors and executioners of their country. Who in their mind chooses them? Well, except Bendera? )
    1. teodorh
      teodorh 1 July 2013 12: 53 New
      +2
      Quote: Constantine
      Turkey fought for many years and nothing


      Compare Ukraine and Turkey is not correct.

      1. Turkey is a Muslim country.
      2. Turkey has a strained relationship with the EU member Greece, and does not recognize the other EU member Cyprus.
      3. Turkey has developed industry. Strong countries do not want a competitor. They need a market.
      1. Constantine
        Constantine 1 July 2013 15: 09 New
        +1
        In Europe, there are more Turks than people from the former Union combined. Moreover, many of them have EU citizenship, which gives them the right to vote and the ability to influence certain decisions. The Turks have their own "secret pedals" of pressure, which Ukraine simply does not have.
        1. teodorh
          teodorh 1 July 2013 21: 19 New
          0
          Quote: Constantine
          In Europe, there are more Turks than people from the former Union combined.


          The largest diaspora of the Turks in Germany. But it is Germany, together with France, Austria and the Greeks (Greece and Cyprus), against Turkey’s EU membership.
          1. Constantine
            Constantine 1 July 2013 23: 41 New
            +2
            Recent statements by the Turks sounded something like this, if Merkel wants to stay in his post, then the Turks need to listen a little.

            Sooner or later, the EU will end as a unification because too many grievances and contradictions that are not so easy to overcome. In this particular case, waving in the face of the Turks a membership in NATO and the EU means subordinating them to their will since they are ready for this much. The ticket to the pool is like a slippery fish in the hands of the Turkish government.

            A similar situation is likely to be with Ukraine, too, until the Ukrainian government is put in its place. Mythical, so close, but absolutely inaccessible, membership in the EU and NATO will be waved in front of Yanukovych and the whole company, but only so that they sabotaged the attempts of the Russian Federation and the Republic of Belarus to return Ukraine to a common orbit. The campaign is also pumped out manpower with resources, but in the geopolitical game this is rather secondary. The main thing is to prevent the formation of a potential adversary who will be able to turn around the situation not in favor of the West.
  • AVDOTYAKARLOVNA
    AVDOTYAKARLOVNA 1 July 2013 09: 10 New
    0
    In the future, Ukraine will face a two-part collapse, west-east. The West, as before, will go under the Poles. The east will remain with Russia. Amer would long ago have made another base from Ukraine. But they piss Russia off if you do not twist, for now, anyway. You finally understand the stupid politicians of false patriots and simply henchmen ... the Slavs will never be equal with the Anglo-Saxons ... read the story. We are like monkeys in the jungle for them. If Ukraine will need NOTO and the European Union, then only as a sales market and another base. Well, it’s good to stop talking with the West .. they don’t need you as nudity ugly.
    1. Skavron
      Skavron 1 July 2013 10: 15 New
      0
      Why should Ukraine fall apart?
      What are you all writing this nonsense?
      Have you ever been there? Here and no one else has such thoughts!
      1. Fetel
        Fetel 1 July 2013 15: 31 New
        0
        Ukraine is doomed to collapse - just look at the map of political preferences of Ukrainians for this. It miraculously coincides with the borders of the western regions - with the very ones that were torn from the rest of Russia for 600 years.
        1. Sergey_K
          Sergey_K 1 July 2013 16: 29 New
          -2
          Ukraine will never fall into two parts. Only by force. Ukrainians from Lviv and Ukrainians from Donetsk have much more in common than Moskvich and a resident of Kazan.

          Not worried about that. I would be worried about this:
          http://lenta.ru/news/2013/06/28/russia/

          Russia is much more prone to separatism.
        2. Skavron
          Skavron 1 July 2013 22: 58 New
          -1
          to understand that it doesn’t fall apart, just turn on the brain, and not look at the map.
          it’s just that you’ve never been here and never traveled to Ukraine.
          nobody ever thinks about the collapse and there are no separatist sentiments here
          so it’s better not to write nonsense ...
      2. fokino1980
        fokino1980 1 July 2013 21: 42 New
        0
        I agree! Everyone will merge in the ecstasy of brotherly love! wink
    2. fokino1980
      fokino1980 1 July 2013 21: 42 New
      0
      Do not make up! It will not happen!
  • borisjdin1957
    borisjdin1957 1 July 2013 09: 25 New
    +2
    from the Don.
    I have Zhnea from Western Ukraine! And what is happening in Ukraine, skillfully, in places, causes laughter, it, in some places, tears! Ukraine faces collapse, and they: leaders: rush with the entry into the EU or NATO, as with a written bag.
    1. Old_kapitan
      Old_kapitan 1 July 2013 11: 50 New
      +3
      I Reaping from Western Ukraine! And what is happening in Ukraine, skillfully, in places, causes laughter, uh, in places, tears!
      Tell your LaterSchaub did not cry. "Fatherland" father father, "Swamp" will swatter, and we live and laugh at them. Well sho Kirilenko will achieve if this bill is adopted? The creation of something like the Warsaw Pact between Russia, Ukraine and Belarus? NATY will still not be. I am from northern Ukraine (Chernihiv) and I know how they relate to NATE here. Not to mention the east, south and Crimea.
  • SPIRITofFREEDOM
    SPIRITofFREEDOM 1 July 2013 09: 53 New
    +2
    I have an uncle in Kiev connected with culture, the head there
    So, when he came to Peter for work
    During the conversation, there were clearly hostile speeches, constant references to the story that they all owe everything and Georgia is the most beautiful country and Russia the most bloodthirsty)))
    1. Old_kapitan
      Old_kapitan 1 July 2013 11: 52 New
      -1
      Well, who is to blame for your uncle? I?
    2. Gecko
      Gecko 1 July 2013 12: 01 New
      +4
      These uncles need to close the entrance to Russia. And officials and deputies who conduct anti-Russian activities, in addition, are not allowed to do business in Russia.
  • Sergey13
    Sergey13 1 July 2013 09: 58 New
    +2
    It is impossible to say that Ukraine will not join NATO, such an option is not ruled out, but what will be the answer in this case from Russia? We will lose Sevastopol - for sure, and the unrest of the Ukrainians, if any, will be suppressed together with the same NATO members.
    In general, it’s high time for our GRU and the FSB to carry out an operation to take the throne of the prince of Ukraine as our man
  • Unknown
    Unknown 1 July 2013 10: 03 New
    +4
    Here are the traitors, instead of joining the Customs Union, they are fleeing to the EU.
  • Isk1984
    Isk1984 1 July 2013 10: 15 New
    +5
    Just let's honestly admit that in Russia and Ukraine, the elite sold out to the West a long time ago, so the capital is in Western banks and the kids study in English private schools, yes Rhetoric Public can often be anti-Western, but this is the same policy everyone has long been aware of, uniformly who really still somehow defends national interests hairstyle seem so the heritage of the USSR so it's Old Man ....
  • Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 1 July 2013 10: 33 New
    +4
    A donkey Ukraine chasing a carrot tied on top, he firmly believes that he will catch up with one more step and that’s it, and carrots farther and farther. The whole world from pole to pole, makes fun of Ukraine, but they don’t notice it, they are running for a phantom called the European Union. It’s interesting how long this circus will continue, the Ukrainian leadership will probably not increase their minds even now or after a thousand years, although I doubt that an “independent” Ukraine will last another 10 years. It will be good when one of the brainchild disappears " ugly Bialowieza agreement. "
  • papss
    papss 1 July 2013 10: 44 New
    +3
    I agree with Isk1984
    Just let's honestly admit that in Russia and Ukraine the elites have long been sold to the West, and the capital is in Western banks
    to the opinion of the people, or rather, most of them, by and large, do not give a damn ... we see this on the basis of tense relations with Russia, on the fact of the customs union, problems with gas, the fleet, recognition of Bandera and so on ... so everything is possible .. . At one time, Russia probably has an action plan for such a situation ... in particular, such a bike went during the first presidency of Putin and Bush Jr ... to the question of Bush how Russia would react to Ukraine’s joining NATO ...? The answer is Ukraine? And what kind of country is this? ... I repeat the bike ...
  • Old warrant officer
    Old warrant officer 1 July 2013 11: 11 New
    +1
    Quote: Canep
    If Ukraine joins NATO, I suspect Russia's response will be extremely harsh: 100% visa regime (the alliance itself will require this by the way), gas at a sky-high price, and much more can be invented. But at the same time, Russia will most likely have to leave Sevastopol.

    Most likely, Russia will have to COME to Sevastopol! There are no options!
    1. Stamp
      Stamp 1 July 2013 15: 28 New
      +3
      Quote: Old Warrant Officer
      Most likely, Russia will have to COME to Sevastopol!

      So Russia did not leave Sevastopol, the Black Sea Fleet base is there.
      1. vitamin
        vitamin ky 2 July 2013 01: 28 New
        +4
        I hope there will remain - Do you know how it’s calmer hi
  • orff
    orff 1 July 2013 11: 15 New
    +2
    Russia can expel and ban for three years the entry into its territory of 700 thousand Ukrainian citizens.
    this was stated by the head of the Federal Migration Service Konstantin Romodanovsky during the international conference “Russian-Ukrainian Relations: Realities and Prospects” held in Moscow.
    Romodanovsky said where the impressive number of Ukrainian candidates for deportation came from: “Today, there are about one and a half million Ukrainian citizens on Russian territory. Of these, 111 thousand legally work, 350 thousand came to relatives, to study, to be treated. It turns out that more than a million citizens of Ukraine work without proper paperwork. ”
    1. Gecko
      Gecko 1 July 2013 12: 04 New
      +1
      In my opinion, on the contrary, it is necessary to simplify the acquisition of Russian citizenship to all loyal Russian-speaking Ukrainians, and not push Ukraine into the arms of the West.
      1. Mhpv
        Mhpv 1 July 2013 12: 50 New
        +1
        Quote: gecko
        In my opinion, on the contrary, it is necessary to simplify the acquisition of Russian citizenship to all loyal Russian-speaking Ukrainians, and not push Ukraine into the arms of the West.

        It would have been much better for Russia, or they showed it yesterday about the life of migrants in Russia. They already have their own restaurants, clinics and even banks issuing loans to new arrivals. One got Rossi citizenship and raced, he made all his relatives with citizens, and who didn’t I wanted to make registrations, in general, I helped 500 or 1000 to our fellow countrymen, and we, the lavenders, will get a dog wherever we can.
    2. Corneli
      Corneli 1 July 2013 22: 34 New
      +1
      Your Konstantin Romodanovsky needs to go back to school, for starters ... in first grade, Schaub learned to count)
      Quote: orff
      111 thousand work legally

      Quote: orff
      350 thousand came to relatives to study, to be treated.

      (where incidentally is it indicated that these 350 thousand "work"?
      and as I understand it
      Quote: orff
      700 thousand Ukrainian citizens.
      it’s gaster working and being illegal ...
      We consider 111+ 350+ 700 = 1 million 161 thousand people.
      How did he get 1.5 million? rounded up? So it’s possible to write 2 million right away, it’s worse than that (and if I had correctly rounded it, then not 1.5, but 1 million would have come out)
      Quote: orff
      It turns out that more than a million citizens of Ukraine work without proper paperwork

      It was 700 thousand, it became "more than a million"! Again, the wonders of mathematics and the rules of rounding ... ept, who have your bosses there? wassat
  • Sergey13
    Sergey13 1 July 2013 11: 24 New
    0
    Just caught my eye (Zambia became the first customer of the Chinese TCB L-15 with Ukrainian engines)
    1. Old_kapitan
      Old_kapitan 1 July 2013 11: 58 New
      -1
      Well? What follows from this?
  • dmit-xnumx
    dmit-xnumx 1 July 2013 11: 43 New
    +3
    I put the article "plus": thanks to the author for the opinion expressed! This does not mean that I share his opinion, it means that there is a clearly highlighted point of view.
  • Mhpv
    Mhpv 1 July 2013 12: 32 New
    +5
    All this babble is similar to the words of the Friske song:
    "Let's go with you there
    Where there is no snow or rain
    Where we will stay together
    Where will you and I be

    Let's go there
    Let's go here
    Let's go together
    Let's go here
    Let's go there
    Come with me, come on "
    All these shynesses of power back and forth, an attempt to find a foothold in the swamp (west or east of Ukraine). The EU or NATO or the CU are unnecessary for them, they need power, so they jump on one foot and then on the other.
  • UFO
    UFO 1 July 2013 13: 33 New
    +1
    The news is positive, as "blocks" are different, but fellow patrons are always needed. hi
  • Nazrug
    Nazrug 1 July 2013 13: 40 New
    +2
    Quote: teodorh
    Quote: INTER
    there is no need for a special mind, integration with Russia


    We integrated with Russia, but I would not say that everyone here is happy.

    And what should Russia build for you modern profitable enterprises that will provide jobs? The market is open, create products, sell if you can’t do anything, and America will not help you, well, the military will place the maximum base.)
  • Nazrug
    Nazrug 1 July 2013 13: 44 New
    0
    Ukraine is a free country, let me do what they want, but NATO has long had borders with Russia, and that you all are shaking with fear? Whether Ukraine’s entry is profitable, I think it’s profitable, so you will have to spend minimal funds on maintaining the army.
    1. Fetel
      Fetel 1 July 2013 15: 28 New
      +1
      You forgot about the annual tax on Ukraine - a mandatory membership fee in the amount of one to 2,5% of GDP - that is, three hundred or four hundred million dollars, depending on the degree of participation in the Alliance adventures. This is despite the fact that the maintenance of the Ukrainian army is not only in a ready state, but at least just for food, and so about 2,5 percent of GDP is spent. No, NATO is not profitable for Ukraine.
    2. Corneli
      Corneli 1 July 2013 22: 39 New
      0
      Quote: Nazrug
      Whether Ukraine’s entry is profitable, I think it’s profitable, so you will have to spend minimal funds on maintaining the army.

      Nonsense! 2% tax, complete re-equipment, in order to comply with "NATO standards", it’s awesome how much money! where is the benefit?
      Quote: FeteL
      This is despite the fact that the maintenance of the Ukrainian army is not only in a ready state, but at least just for food, and so about 2,5 percent of GDP is spent.

      Where did you come up with the figure "2,5"%? belay Over the past 13 years at least (for the rest xs, I did not follow, but I also doubt) there was no higher than 1,5% ... On average, fluctuations from 1% to 1,2%
  • EGORKA
    EGORKA 1 July 2013 15: 21 New
    0
    Quote: Nazrug
    Ukraine is a free country, let me do what they want, but NATO has long had borders with Russia, and that you all are shaking with fear? Whether Ukraine’s entry is profitable, I think it’s profitable, so you will have to spend minimal funds on maintaining the army.

    And the maintenance of the government and the president is also a minimum of expenses ?!)) Why are they?!) The EU will decide everything for them) And also “Independence”, why was it needed then?) To get away from it, the damned and go under the EU, which feed it seems that it will be better and will not give offense?) What does this look like?)) Ukraine had the opportunity in 20 years to make it at least a little respect its independence, after the "occupation", as some Western Ukrainians say, it got a good legacy, but their lords as we all see, who dreamed of reigning and owning everything for several centuries, they all asked ... excuse me) having seized power and are now looking for a way out. The authorities and the lords have shown their complete failure, there is an independence, but they did not understand what to do with it, they think the EU will give or leave it to happen that, after the same inheritance as Russia? I doubt it very much) But it’s their choice, the stronger Russia will pull Ukraine toward itself, the stronger it will now rest, it remains hoped that something will change the vector of Ukraine, or pursue a more effective and even tough policy, to which Russia so far it seems not ready, we will miss the moment and we will observe a closer life of Ukraine with the EU, Ukraine will get in line for a length of which it is not known which one to join the EU, whether or not it will enter, but time may be missed. I do not think that standing in this line at Ukraine will move forward, which could lift its economy from its knees, the EU, in principle, does not need this, it is enough to maintain “life in the body” so that it does not die and use it for its own purposes. And if that happens, it will be nothing if The EU will not digest Ukraine and burp for some reason, then Russia will have to swallow it, where will we go)
  • Fetel
    Fetel 1 July 2013 15: 25 New
    +4
    The vast majority of Ukrainian citizens are against joining NATO. Consequently, the opposition is against the will of the majority of voters, against the will of the people of the country.
    1. Russ69
      Russ69 1 July 2013 15: 52 New
      +1
      Quote: FeteL
      The vast majority of Ukrainian citizens are against joining NATO. Consequently, the opposition is against the will of the majority of voters, against the will of the people of the country.

      For politicians, the will of the people is needed only in elections. And then their desires always stand higher, since they have chosen it means they are the smartest and know what to do and how. Here the people are nothing more than extras.
    2. Captain Vrungel
      Captain Vrungel 1 July 2013 17: 49 New
      +1
      Friends! That we rack our brains. Yanukovych and criminal "party members" from that region are breaking their heads. Where to run? To give up. It was clearly said that no one is waiting for Ukraine in NATO in this decade. In the EU, the Fences also climbed for a dozen years. In the vehicle. Well, everyone sees Putin's "hot" love for Yanukovych, to the last shiver in his knees.
      Better congratulate the border guards. 111 years of the Green Cap. On July 1, 1902, green tulle was legalized on the caps of a separate corps of the Russian border guard created in 1893.
    3. fokino1980
      fokino1980 1 July 2013 21: 15 New
      0
      The vast majority wanted to spit on everything! And nobody listens to them! Do not build illusions please! Walk around Ukrainian polit sites for a week, watch their political programs and you will understand everything!
      1. Cat
        Cat 1 July 2013 21: 53 New
        +2
        Quote: fokino1980
        The vast majority wanted to spit on everything! And nobody listens to them! Do not build illusions please! Walk around Ukrainian polit sites for a week, watch their political programs and you will understand everything!

        to go on Ukrainian political sites - do not respect yourself. If only because the local self-language patriots have the same attitude towards Ukraine as Napoleon Bonaparte did to the October Revolution. Faith - Catholic (instead of Orthodox), customs and traditions - a mixture of Ukrainian, Polish, Hungarian, Romanian and xs whose else, language too - not every xoxol will understand without half a liter. In general, as for me, they were too influenced by the neighborhood with the Poles - just like the high-minded people like to blame all neighbors for all sins, they also yell about the exceptional importance of their homeland ... They earn money, and at the same time, they prefer it just outside of their home , (and this is not only now true, back in the days of the USSR, "Westernist" shabashniki, or as they were also called - "wuyks", traveled throughout the Ukrainian SSR and not only). All the enterprises inherited from the Union safely rode, but to blame, as always, they bleached. Etc. etc.
        Gy =) I remember we went to Lviv and Frankivsk in the 89th or 90th, in the midst of Svidomo. It was fun to watch: the youth in the trendy then-cooked jeans, but under the jeans - embroidery. Patriots, blasphemy. And we are the same youth, in the same dumpling, but without embroideries. For that, they almost raked their faces in the face like Muscovite sellers - it’s good that we spoke in good Ukrainian, we managed to leave the world =) By the mid-90s everything had settled down, again it was possible to come to the same Lviv and communicate in Russian calmly, passers-by did not look back and they didn’t spit in the back.
        Nevertheless, some of these "cooked-and-go-out" patriots haven’t gone anywhere, they have grown up, got into politics, where they are engaged in the same garbage as in youth. And what else should they do? In Poland, perhaps, or in the suburbs, scribbling with plasterers, and it’s not a fact that they will take it, they managed to make a “reputation" for themselves. Yes, and you have to work there, but laziness. It is much simpler to yell about your exclusivity and about who owes what and how much they owe.
        Such here we have, patriots.
        1. fokino1980
          fokino1980 1 July 2013 22: 09 New
          0
          Do not go! To Zhvanetsky, "Let's argue about the taste of pineapple with those who ate them"
  • Black
    Black 1 July 2013 15: 31 New
    +1
    According to the Communist Alexander Golub, the entry of Ukraine into the North Atlantic Alliance is impractical.

    COMMUNIST!!!! NOT CONSIDERATED, NOT MADNESS- but simply impractical !!!!! Oh how !!!
    What then to expect from the “boxer" ????

    Quote: FeteL
    The vast majority of Ukrainian citizens are against joining NATO. Consequently, the opposition is against the will of the majority of voters, against the will of the people of the country.


    Smiled .... Remind the results of the referendum on the USSR ??
    1. MG42
      MG42 1 July 2013 21: 58 New
      +4
      Quote: Chen
      COMMUNIST!!!! NOT CONSIDERATED, NOT MADNESS- but simply impractical !!!!! Oh how !!!
      What then to expect from the “boxer" ????

      Another "duel" communist Alexander Golub against the radical Oleg Lyashko winked with pitchfork
      1. fokino1980
        fokino1980 1 July 2013 22: 12 New
        +2
        Ukraine without Olezhka Lyashko! It's like a village without a fool! Or our State Duma without Zhirinovsky! Although Wolfovich is much smarter and more restrained laughing
        1. MG42
          MG42 1 July 2013 22: 19 New
          +3
          Quote: fokino1980
          Ukraine without Olezhka Lyashko! It's like a village without a fool!

          About deputy Lyashko of non-traditional sexual orientation = this is a separate issue ..
          Quote: fokino1980
          Although Wolfovich is much smarter and more restrained

          It would be interesting to see their <duel>. It would be cooler than when Zhirinovsky and Nemtsov poured water on each other live laughing
  • EGORKA
    EGORKA 1 July 2013 15: 39 New
    +6
    Ukraine with a population of 50 million, a sufficient territory, access to the sea, and a developed industry could well become not the last player in Europe, but mediocre leadership both politically and economically reduced all this to zero, alas. They shouted about the independence, that when they received it they didn’t understand what to do with it, but they continue to shout to this day) I wish that in Ukraine strong, smart and far-sighted politicians would come to power, without excesses in different directions and already start something do it yourself and not rely on the EU, etc.
    1. Sergey_K
      Sergey_K 1 July 2013 16: 34 New
      0
      I agree with you. Great koment.
    2. MG42
      MG42 1 July 2013 22: 08 New
      +2
      Quote: EGORKA
      Ukraine with a population of 50 million, sufficient territory, access to the sea, with developed industry could well be not the last player in Europe

      The amendment to the population of Ukraine in 1991 was 52 million. People, now 45 million.
  • Russ69
    Russ69 1 July 2013 15: 49 New
    +3
    I sometimes have a feeling that Ukraine is better for good
    disperse, as Czechoslovakia did in its time. Without firing (God forbid) and other delights, but calmly and civilized, with maximum preservation of economic ties, so that there is no strong economic blow for both sides.
    And the current situation, when there is no clear understanding of where to go and these paths, only throws the country into an economic abyss. Which obviously does not benefit the people themselves.
  • EGORKA
    EGORKA 1 July 2013 16: 25 New
    +1
    Quote: Russ69
    I sometimes have a feeling that Ukraine is better for good
    go away

    Going apart, falling apart? 6avryatli, it’s bad for them, but not to the extent that they fall apart, it's all an exaggeration. And if it were as bad as some say, it would still not have collapsed immediately, but there would have been a protracted agony, there’s no energy for in the east of Ukraine, even if they wanted to move away from their western part, they grabbed at them with the death grip of the bull terrier and made them very afraid that in the event of another “occupation” they would give Ukrainians another Crimea as a sign of eternal friendship)))
  • denkastro
    denkastro 1 July 2013 16: 29 New
    0
    First, all gas pipelines will be built bypassing Ukraine, then they will drive the Independent Square into debt. Then they will squeeze Crimea for debts, then other areas. This is an aggressive scenario, not aggressive when they put their protege on the throne. Before, I thought that aggressive was practically impossible, but after Cyprus I’m not sure of that already. The fraternal peoples must live together, and if the elites have to be persuaded by enslaving methods, then so be it. Imho.
  • Russ69
    Russ69 1 July 2013 16: 29 New
    +1
    Quote: EGORKA
    at 6, they have a bad time, but not to the same extent to fall apart, it's all an exaggeration

    Yes, I don’t particularly say that my opinion is the main truth. Just an opinion, I don’t want anything bad for Ukraine, except for some "bright" representatives.
  • Max
    Max 1 July 2013 16: 33 New
    +2
    Parties of regions do not need either NATO, or the EU is not a vehicle ... Politicians and the oligarchs behind them, in fact, the entire elite of the country is fenced off from unions, because no one wants to play by the rules of others. As with the West and the Russian Federation, separate non-aligned trade and political relations are built on equal terms without prejudice to Ukrainian business. And the location of Ukraine, in the very center of Eurasia, makes its extra-lateral status a pretty profitable thing, because you can get incredible income for the transit of any goods. But our politicians and oligarchs (although the same thing :)), although greedy villains and all that, in the age of globalization are well aware that it will not go away for a long time, and it will be necessary to make a choice. It's only the beginning ;)
    1. Sergey_K
      Sergey_K 1 July 2013 16: 41 New
      +4
      Correctly written. But you forgot about the small town of local politicians. When was the highest industrial production growth in Europe, who dragged Yusch by the ears? Why ruined relations with Russia? Having such a power near Russia as Russia cannot spoil relations with it.
      Obviously, the United States, seeing at what pace Ukraine is rising, dragged Yushch, who brewed the porridge, which you are still dissolving. This is the very controlled chaos.
      In Ukraine at the moment there is no politician who could calculate the situation for at least a year.
  • EGORKA
    EGORKA 1 July 2013 16: 54 New
    +1
    Quote: max
    Parties of regions do not need either NATO, or the EU is not a vehicle ... Politicians and the oligarchs behind them, in fact, the entire elite of the country is fenced off from unions, because no one wants to play by the rules of others. As with the West and the Russian Federation, separate non-aligned trade and political relations are built on equal terms without prejudice to Ukrainian business. And the location of Ukraine, in the very center of Eurasia, makes its extra-lateral status a pretty profitable thing, because you can get incredible income for the transit of any goods. But our politicians and oligarchs (although the same thing :)), although greedy villains and all that, in the age of globalization are well aware that it will not go away for a long time, and it will be necessary to make a choice. It's only the beginning ;)

    While Russia and the EU hope to call Ukraine in, Ukraine is balancing on two chairs, but it doesn’t sit on one, you are probably right that only your lords have the benefit, the state and the people as a whole are almost at the bottom and continue to fall there. such a position of sitting on two chairs is not always and not effective, but having made a choice will lose the chair, and they will not let her sit on two, sooner or later it will bother both the EU and Russia. And to eat a fish and to sit ... that’s the position of your politicians authorities))
  • Egoza
    Egoza 1 July 2013 17: 33 New
    +4
    Kirilenko also noted that the state refused to receive guarantees to ensure territorial integrity, state sovereignty, inviolability of state borders, choosing instead military neutrality,
    ABOUT! What news from Kirilenko! Well, since they refused to receive guarantees of territorial integrity and the inviolability of state borders, that is, only Ukraine will pick up about NATO, it will be possible to disconnect Sevastopol and Crimea, as well as other territories "at the request of the working people." And there are those who wish! fellow
    1. Fin
      Fin 1 July 2013 19: 19 New
      0
      Quote: Egoza
      It will be possible to disconnect Sevastopol and Crimea, as well as other territories "at the request of the working people." And there are those who wish!


      I would be very happy to retire back home.
      Elena, is Korolevskaya quoted there? A sensible madam listened to her a couple of times on vacation. As a counterweight to Yu.V.T. can pull?
  • The comment was deleted.
  • GOOD07
    GOOD07 1 July 2013 18: 59 New
    0
    Quote: AVDOTYAKARLOVNA
    In the future, Ukraine will face a two-part collapse, west-east. The West, as before, will go under the Poles. The east will remain with Russia. Amer would long ago have made another base from Ukraine. But they piss Russia off if you do not twist, for now, anyway. You finally understand the stupid politicians of false patriots and simply henchmen ... the Slavs will never be equal with the Anglo-Saxons ... read the story. We are like monkeys in the jungle for them. If Ukraine will need NOTO and the European Union, then only as a sales market and another base. Well, it’s good to stop talking with the West .. they don’t need you as nudity ugly.

    Complete nonsense. What collapse, what are you talking about?
  • atos_kin
    atos_kin 1 July 2013 20: 44 New
    -1
    Considering the effectiveness of any reforms over the past 22 years of confusion in Ukraine, I would suggest on the contrary to support the zeal of generous Ukrainians to abolish blocklessness. As a result, Ukraine “without noise and dust” will quietly become a member of the CSTO.
    1. fokino1980
      fokino1980 1 July 2013 21: 20 New
      +1
      No need to dream! It's time to get used to the obvious! A state that is not friendly to us is being formed on the border with Russia, to put it mildly. in 30 years another country has formed and they do not want to be our "brothers" Svidomist is already a reality! Sad but it is so!
  • fokino1980
    fokino1980 1 July 2013 21: 38 New
    +2
    Comrade officers and sympathizers! (I suspect, and not without reason, that there are most of them here) Let's get rid of illusions! Ukraine will no longer become a "brotherly" country! There are many reasons for this conclusion and one comment is not enough. During the period of “independence”, a whole generation has grown up who believes that “Ukrainians” as a people existed, that Russia has always been an enemy of Ukrainians, that “Holodomor” is a matter of Russian hands. They at the political and everyday level laugh at us and the attempts of the leadership of our country to conclude a "fraternal" alliance with them. They are Europe! The insanity and the theater of the absurdity that they have on the political stage is their pride and color. And they like him! We are not needed not by the people of Ukraine or their political elite! They do not need the benefits of an alliance with the Russian Federation, with the CU and the CSTO! I have been reading their websites for several months, watching their political talk shows, talking with friends in my service and college! And he came to the conclusion that he had already written. No preferences, benefits, benefits, money are needed! All this is useless! This is a different Ukraine! and it is very different from the one that we all come up with here!
  • Corneli
    Corneli 1 July 2013 22: 54 New
    +1
    The article is just another reason to tackle the long-suffering "Russian-Ukrainian" theme. (What the hell is NATO? What is the benefit from it? At least ONE MAN knows who Vyacheslav Kirilenko is? The former "left" hand of the ever-memorable Yushchenko, the abstained chairman (who joined after the dismal fail of his Pomeranchev party to SEE) of the faction "Our Ukraine - People’s Self-Defense"! And what did you expect from this orange little deer? What will he offer to join the vehicle? (It would be a number)) Or similar garbage, which the Pomeranchevs had not tried to cram for a year already? Like the first time?
    P.S. I, on this site, (Russian, as some forum users like to remind) see fewer Russian bills than Ukrainian ones. Especially, they like to publish such zilch here, and then, apparently, enjoy srach between Ukrainians and Russians ...
  • uizik
    uizik 2 July 2013 00: 07 New
    +3
    Ukraine always enters somewhere, but mostly in a gomno!
    1. vitamin
      vitamin ky 2 July 2013 01: 37 New
      +3
      rude to planting true
  • vikruss
    vikruss 2 July 2013 01: 35 New
    -1
    Democracy in Ukrainian ... everything is normal. But only if our Ukrainian brothers do not stop, I think that Russia should use military force, .. in the full sense and with the aggressive interaction with Belarus, send troops, take Crimea, and all of Eastern Ukraine along the Dnieper is at least. And it would be better for the Whole ... This will be the most correct decision and the entire Western Shavkin yard to make sure that Russia must be reckoned with. It’s time to end the conversation, the Western pack has understood everything for a long time and is not going to listen to the opinion of Russia. Ukrainians will live even better than this, and then put the Lviv region on self-sufficiency.
    1. Captain Vrungel
      Captain Vrungel 2 July 2013 08: 14 New
      -1
      And the "crap" who crawls to defend the AUG with the most "crap" peacekeepers on board under the "pad" on a gaffle.
      You do not really rattle your arms. Get ready for a democratic greeting from Iran, China and the DPRK. For you, three missiles that fell on your never-seen-bombing overseas island territory are enough for you and ... the first will cause shock, the second panic, the third white flag over the White House.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • Axel
    Axel 2 July 2013 14: 28 New
    -2
    But what difference does Ukraine have for Russia in NATO or not, it is not up to you to decide for us, we are not your province.
  • agbykov
    agbykov 2 July 2013 20: 12 New
    0
    There is already a telling example in history of how the West protected us: they first came to rob Constantinople ... See the film "The Death of an Empire. Byzantine Lesson." A lot of historical parallels.
    And with regard to "Out-of-blockiness fully corresponds to the unwillingness of Ukrainians to take part in foreign armed conflicts," I would add the word "Western" to the word "alien". I would not speak for all the Little Russians, as the author of the article did, but the conflicts in which Russia is involved have never been strangers to me.
  • Mikhail
    Mikhail 2 July 2013 22: 31 New
    0
    Ukraine will not join any NATO - this is just another informational stuffing. This is impossible, if only because Black Sea Fleet of Russia is based in Sevastopol.
    Those who consider it necessary to break Little Russia into two are completely wrong: to reunite the eastern part with Great Russia, and give the western part to the Poles. It was not for this that we poured blood in the desire to unite the Russian world in order to give part of ourselves to our original enemies. We ourselves must heal the wounds of the Russian world.
  • sky17176
    sky17176 3 July 2013 15: 17 New
    0
    If tomorrow is a war, on whose side will Ukraine
    1. From the point of view of international law, a country that will conduct military operations against Russia will consider Ukraine at war on the side of Russia, since a military base of the Russian Black Sea Fleet is located on its territory.
    Simply put, if (for example) Turkey decides to strike at the Russian Black Sea Fleet, then it will not worry that it is located on Ukrainian territory. Blows will be made on Sevastopol.
    2. The Ukrainian legislation (Constitution) stipulates that the state should be neutral. Neutrality is a special status that can be obtained by fulfilling a number of formal and informal conditions. Obligations of a neutral country:
    Do not help any fighting side with your armed forces;
    Do not give your territory to warring parties. Do not trade military goods with a single party to the conflict. (Trading can only be conducted with all parties);
    be able to protect their neutral status by military means (neutral Switzerland spends 5% of GDP on defense. According to the Law on Defense of Ukraine, it should spend no less than 3%).
    In the same time:
    Under President Yanukovych, the country is moving towards the North Atlantic Alliance much more rapidly than during the time of Yushchenko
    The participation of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in joint activities with NATO;
    NATO provides grants to research institutions of Ukraine for the implementation of strategic projects;
    constructive partnership of Ukraine in the "smart defense" ("smartdefense"), adopted at the Chicago NATO summit on May 21, 2012. This is evidenced by the presence of the Ukrainian delegation at the summit;
    NATO expands its participation in the development of information and cybersecurity of Ukraine
    3. In Ukraine, they poorly understand what the CSTO is and what it does, but this requires information. Ukraine has more information about NATO than about some other structures.
    Why CSTO is better than NATO:
    CSTO created the CIS countries in order to jointly ensure security;
    CSTO members - neighboring states located in the same economic and international space;
    unified school of personnel training, unified arms system;
    close mentality and a single language of interstate communication;
    single story.
    So, with whom is UKRAINE !?