Military Review

The military legacy of the USSR turned out to be excessive for Ukraine

197
The military legacy of the USSR turned out to be excessive for Ukraine



The Minister of Defense of Ukraine Petro Lebedev stated that since 2014, service in the Armed Forces of Ukraine will be fully carried out on a contractual basis. Moreover, until 2017, the number of troops will be reduced from 180 thousand to 122 thousand. In addition, it is planned to modernize existing equipment - primarily military aviation, anti-aircraft systems and radars. The Ministry of Defense of Ukraine also plans to purchase 2 new An-70 military transport aircraft, a corvette, up to 10 armored boats and develop a high-precision ship missile system.

The statement of the Minister of Defense can cause legitimate questions and concerns for many Ukrainians - as the reduction of personnel by 32% can significantly affect the country's defense capability. At the same time, the announced numbers of purchases and future plans for modernization leave quite a lot of doubts - will many, for example, change the 2 of new transport aircraft adopted before the 2017 of the year? In connection with the emergence of such issues, it is worthwhile to dwell in greater detail on the current state of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, and also to analyze whether the country's leadership has chosen the right path.

After the collapse of the USSR, Ukraine got huge reserves of weapons, the second after the Russian Federation. The numbers are truly impressive: up to 5500 tanks (T-64, T-72, T-55, T-80), more than 4000 infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers, a huge number of multiple launch rocket systems (MLRS) and artillery, including Smerch MLRS, in the amount of 95 units. Ukraine also inherited a huge and powerful air force - about 1100 combat aircraft, represented by the most modern bombers, fighters and transporters of the USSR at that time. Even the Tu-160 strategic bombers came into service with the Ukrainian Armed Forces, but later they were transferred to Russia at the expense of the debt for gas. Huge were the stockpiles of nuclear weapons and strategic carriers - 176 of intercontinental ballistic missiles (although by the year 1996 all nuclear weapons and their carriers were either transferred to the Russian Federation or destroyed, often with funds provided by the United States). The strongest were the air defense forces located in Ukraine.

As you can see, the groundwork of the Armed Forces of Ukraine was very serious. However, the resulting equipment was excessive for Ukraine. In the terrible economic situation of 90s and 2000s, due to the huge lack of funding, misuse of funds and rampant corruption, the resulting technology began to deteriorate very quickly. In addition, the sale of armament stocks began almost immediately - for example, by the most minimal estimates, it sold up to 500 combat aircraft and helicopters, to 1000 tanks and 1000 combat vehicles. As a result, for example, 208 (it was 1100) of combat aircraft and about 700 tanks (it was 5500) remained in the Ukrainian Armed Forces at the moment.

A huge problem is the expiry date of suitability of many weapons. This is especially true of air defense systems - in the last exercises, there were several spontaneous explosions of anti-aircraft missiles of the Buk complex, immediately after launch. At the same time, the replacement and modernization of certain types of equipment, such as the C-300 missiles, is not possible by the military-industrial complex of Ukraine, and their period is either already expired or will expire in 1-2 of the year. The problem is the obsolescence of technology, which, although a lot, but its effectiveness is noticeably lower than modern models. This whole situation is complicated by the fact that the huge army of both personnel and equipment accounts for only $ 2 billion of the defense budget (for the year of the 2012). At the same time, about 92% of this amount is spent only on the maintenance of the army, as a result pennies remain on development and modernization.

Another serious problem of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is the insufficient level of training of officers and personnel. For example, on 2010 year the annual raid of the pilot of the Air Force of Ukraine amounted to only 17 hours. Given that in the Russian Federation - this is 100-120 hours, and in the US up to 180 hours. True, there is some improvement in the situation, but the numbers in the 40 watches are also far from ideal. The level of recruits who do not receive real practice and serve only a year is very low. At the same time, the quality of contracted service personnel and the conditions of their service also remain critical - for example, the salary is only $ 200, and the issue of housing is at a very low level.

All of the above problems force us to conclude that the Ukrainian Armed Forces require radical reforms and changes. In this context, the proposal to reduce the staff of the Minister of Defense looks absolutely logical - it will free up some of the funds spent on the maintenance of the army and use them for development. In addition, it will be easier to train a smaller number of military personnel and officers. It is also necessary to seriously reduce the number of military equipment, especially at the expense of obsolete models, the preservation of which in combat condition eats up huge amounts of money, while there will be no return from such equipment in a real military conflict. In modern realities, Ukraine does not need aircraft with such a large amount of equipment - it is more important to create modern, highly mobile and high-precision troops that will be effective in case of local conflicts, since Ukraine is unlikely to participate in others. The amount freed from the reduction can be spent on a deep modernization of the most modern technology and the purchase and development of a new one. Modernization of some types of equipment together with the Russian Federation would be logical, for example, it would be vital to upgrade the C-300PS air defense systems, with expiring terms, to C-300М, which can even serve at least 20 years after. Or modernization of the Su-27, to the level of the Su-27СМ3 (this level of modernization is hardly achievable in the conditions of the military-industrial complex of Ukraine).

In general, the course taken by the Government of Ukraine reflects the realities; now it remains only to observe how these reforms will be implemented and whether they will be carried out in good faith. With an unfair approach, all this can only lead to a greater collapse of the Armed Forces, but at the same time the policy of reducing and modernizing the army is the only real way out of this difficult situation.
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  1. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 30 June 2013 06: 32 New
    48
    Ah brothers Ukrainians all share swear to the joy of our enemies .. And what have come .. ???
    1. vladimirZ
      vladimirZ 30 June 2013 08: 26 New
      30
      I recall how in school at the beginning of the 60s of the last century, the teacher told us a parable story about the father and children, to whom the father distributed one branch each. Sons easily broke, at the request of the father, their branches. Then the father from the same number of branches tied a whisk and gave each of his sons a try to break it. None of the sons broke the broom.
      Using this simple example, we were taught from school to value the friendship of the peoples of the USSR, but now it seems they are teaching the opposite.
      We all have confusion in our heads, and hence the disorder in the state that was once formerly common.
      1. Kars
        Kars 30 June 2013 08: 53 New
        10
        It’s fair to say such articles were pretty bad. YES of Ukraine got an EXCESS of weapons, while Ukraine refused NUCLEAR weapons under the guarantees of the nuclear club countries including RUSSIA and the USA. Our borders with more or less calm neighbors were not allowed. The Civil War was larger Canadian)))

        When will there be an article on how much Russia has reduced weapons inherited from the USSR, while claiming to be a pole of geopolitical power and having China and ... probably ... a friend of the USA and NATO on the border.
        1. Mitek
          Mitek 30 June 2013 09: 04 New
          43
          Quote: Kars
          It’s fair to say such articles were pretty bad. YES of Ukraine got an EXCESS of weapons, while Ukraine refused NUCLEAR weapons under the guarantees of the nuclear club countries including RUSSIA and the USA. Our borders with more or less calm neighbors were not allowed. The Civil War was larger Canadian)))

          When will there be an article on how much Russia has reduced weapons inherited from the USSR, while claiming to be a pole of geopolitical power and having China and ... probably ... a friend of the USA and NATO on the border.

          I think it's silly to compare the state of the Armed Forces of Russia and Ukraine. In Russia, under the wrath, Yeltsin did much more. The fact that you and I, Kars, live in different states, is overtaking everything that we have done, Yanuk, Yulka combined multiplied by 10. Together we are strength. We have always been one people. Russia, Ukraine, Belarus. And I really hope to live up to the moment when we will again become a single and never divisible people. They taught us already ..
          1. gladiatorakz
            gladiatorakz 30 June 2013 11: 04 New
            +5
            Quote: Mitek
            In Russia, under the wrath, Yeltsin did much more.

            And who was Serdyukov with? And where is he now?
            1. Geisenberg
              Geisenberg 30 June 2013 12: 19 New
              12
              Quote: gladiatorakz
              Quote: Mitek
              In Russia, under the wrath, Yeltsin did much more.

              And who was Serdyukov with? And where is he now?


              Serdyukov began at the iPhone, and was (exactly what he was) at the GDP ... and now, he seems to be sitting in the toilet and dreams of how to shit and not thinking about what kind of junk wants to go down on him ...

              And to the fraternal people I want to say welcome to adulthood ...
              1. Arberes
                Arberes 30 June 2013 15: 40 New
                13
                Quote: Geisenberg
                Serdyukov began at the iPhone,

                Date of arrival in the ministerial chair Serdyukov 15 February 2007goda.
                Presidential Elections D.A. Medvedev March 2, 2008.
                Using simple mathematical calculations, we conclude that Serdyukov is a protege of Comrade. Fishing season!
                Well, or Mr., how do you like it? Facts and facts again!
                And Serdyukov does not sit in the toilet, reads verses of his beloved poetess and drinks cognac in his luxurious summer cottage.
                1. mark7
                  mark7 30 June 2013 19: 03 New
                  +2
                  yes, no, they added it to nano already, and he got into ministers not just from a furniture store
              2. stroporez
                stroporez 30 June 2013 20: 16 New
                +4
                "sitting" he is now in the advisers to the president of "Russian Technologies" ......... shoby such a steal shob so "punished" me
              3. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 1 July 2013 05: 04 New
                +1
                Quote: Geisenberg

                Serdyukov began with the iPhone

                You have a bad memory, Putin appointed Serdyukov, even before Medvedev.
          2. mark7
            mark7 30 June 2013 17: 58 New
            0
            as I am with you sonlasen, I really want to live out the golden words until the unification +
        2. self-propelled
          self-propelled 30 June 2013 10: 12 New
          17
          Quote: Kars
          The army is larger than the Canadian in numbers)))

          unfortunately, quantity is not quality request . he himself served in the mid-90's in the Ukrainian army. and the state of combat readiness of the army of that time was simply depressing. I hope it will be better now.
          The Ministry of Defense of Ukraine also plans to purchase 2 new An-70 military transport aircraft, corvette, up to 10 armored boats

          Sorry, but this is negligible for the army, which recently received almost no new weapons. compare the same army of Poland (with a population slightly less than in Ukraine) with the army of Ukraine. Unfortunately, the comparison is not in favor of Ukraine.
          what I’m leading to - 20 years of embezzlement and division of power in the most negative way affected the defenses of the Ukrainian army. so maybe all the same our government will start to think not about its jo ... pe, but about Ukraine ?!
          1. Kars
            Kars 30 June 2013 10: 37 New
            +1
            Quote: self-propelled
            An-70, corvette, up to 10 armored boats

            If it weren’t for the need to show mass production --- I would prefer to upgrade the cash Ilya, which are on conservation at the airport of Zaporozhye. This is already not talking about what if the need for an aircraft such as AN-70? Armored is quite normal.
            Quote: self-propelled
            he himself served in the mid-90s in the Ukrainian army. and the state of combat readiness of the army of that time was simply depressing. I hope it will be better now.

            Nothing much changed in 2004, so we need a compact army.
            Quote: self-propelled
            what I’m leading to - 20 years of embezzlement and division of power in the most negative way affected the defenses of the Ukrainian army. so maybe all the same our government will start to think not about its jo ... pe, but about Ukraine ?!

            Would you personally think at the place of the government? I personally do not warrant for myself. Moreover, there are no external threats.
            Quote: domokl
            drives the country to the list of European rogue countries. Which seem to be there, but no one is interested in.

            I never thought that interest in the country because of its armed forces.
            1. Andrey Skokovsky
              Andrey Skokovsky 30 June 2013 13: 22 New
              22
              Quote: Kars
              It’s fair to say such articles were pretty bad. YES of Ukraine got an EXCESS of weapons, while Ukraine refused NUCLEAR weapons under the guarantees of the nuclear club countries including RUSSIA and the USA. Our borders with more or less calm neighbors were not allowed. The Civil War was larger Canadian)))

              When will there be an article on how much Russia has reduced weapons inherited from the USSR, while claiming to be a pole of geopolitical power and having China and ... probably ... a friend of the USA and NATO on the border.



              Unfortunately, you do not understand that you are not touched for one single reason - there is Russia.
              Any aggression against Ukraine will be regarded as aggression against Russia, even if this does not happen at the political level, which is unbelievable now, it will definitely happen immediately at the mental - national level, and then the avalanche-like process of merging Ukraine and Russia into one state, which no one won't stop.
              And the restoration of a single country is a terrible dream of the Anglo-Saxons and Europeans, which is why no one is attacking you, and not because all such super-duper people are all.
              If there was no Russia, all neighbors would have thrown you without exception!

              Although they are in full swing preparing for the capture or at least reducing the combat readiness of the future victim, young Ukrainians from all military specialties in the near future will only be partisans ....
              1. Kars
                Kars 30 June 2013 13: 36 New
                +1
                Quote: Andrey Skokovsky
                Unfortunately, you don’t understand that you aren’t being touched for one single reason - there is Russia.

                What are you? Really?
                Quote: Andrey Skokovsky
                If there was no Russia, all neighbors would have thrown you without exception!

                It's probably nice to think of yourself that way. Defenders.
                1. Andrey Skokovsky
                  Andrey Skokovsky 30 June 2013 13: 55 New
                  20
                  I respect you very much as a military specialist, but it seems that the European propaganda did not pass you by

                  ask yourself the question: “when Ukraine was richer independent and sovereign, before 1991 or after? When did the people of Ukraine have more confidence in their future? When did it just stupidly increase in quantity !?”

                  and you shouldn’t be ironic about the fact that the Russians feel responsible for the fate of Ukraine, there is no and there was no sensation of alienation to Ukrainians in Russia, you can believe it may not, but there is a sense of unity with you and incomprehension about the fact that we are in different states ... ...
                  1. Kars
                    Kars 30 June 2013 14: 42 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Andrey Skokovsky
                    when Ukraine was richer independent and sovereign, before 1991 or after?

                    This already does not play a role. The USSR is no longer there, nor is the building of communism. Therefore, this question does not make sense. This is even if we discard that Ukraine in principle was not independent. But after the collapse of the Russian Empire, it still existed to build its own state- - at that time, European propaganda was vryatli.
                    Quote: Andrey Skokovsky
                    but there is a sense of unity with you and incomprehension about the fact that we are in different states ......
                    This is what you feel now --- and if it happens that we get together, it will take 2-3 minutes to become dependent, clinging to the pipe and hiding from external danger.
                    Quote: Andrey Skokovsky
                    what Russians feel responsible for the fate of Ukraine

                    But for some reason I don’t feel responsible for anyone. If you feel better when the national team or the Ukrainian football teams pour out of the tournaments, then I support the Russians if they exist))
                    1. Turner
                      Turner 30 June 2013 20: 52 New
                      +3
                      Yes, you could not be given independence, but you drowned in it
                      1. Kars
                        Kars 30 June 2013 22: 05 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Turner
                        Yes, you could not be given independence, but you drowned in it

                        They were not interested in your opinion. The independence was proclaimed by the Ukrainian parliament / supreme council.
                      2. Alexander Romanov
                        Alexander Romanov 1 July 2013 05: 07 New
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        .Independence was proclaimed by the Ukrainian parliament / supreme council.

                        But not the people of Ukraine wassat
                      3. Cat
                        Cat 1 July 2013 05: 41 New
                        -4
                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        Quote: Kars
                        .Independence was proclaimed by the Ukrainian parliament / supreme council.

                        But not the people of Ukraine wassat

                        the people of Ukraine supported this whole thing, in an appropriate referendum - 90 with a trifle% “FOR”, even in frankly Russian Crimea and Sevastopol - more than half of the population supported independence.
                        What they thought then, and whether this decision was right - is now not so important ... although, based on the mess that was going on in the Union in general and in Russia in particular, the desire to dissociate itself from all this seemed quite logical. At least we did not have to fight in Chechnya for the sake of the profits of Moscow oligarchs. And our homegrown, for all their scum, even managed to concoct business without war and blood.
                        In general, not everything is as straightforward as some individual novels here try to present. And the longer these some will trend about the fact that, they say, "it's all you and your stupid rulers, but here we are, and our wise ones ... etc. etc. ..." - the more time it will take to reunite the peoples of our countries.
                      4. Alexander Romanov
                        Alexander Romanov 1 July 2013 05: 46 New
                        +4
                        Quote: Cat

                        the people of Ukraine supported this whole thing, in an appropriate referendum - 90 with a trifle% "FOR", sales

                        Well, what and who are you lying to here, about the fact that 90% supported independence, tell the students. Adult uncles in a referendum voted in favor of the Soviet Union !!! Learn history not according to Yushchenko.
                      5. Cat
                        Cat 1 July 2013 06: 13 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        Well, what and who are you lying to here, about the fact that 90% supported independence, tell the students. Adult uncles in a referendum voted in favor of the Soviet Union !!! Learn history not according to Yushchenko.

                        Unlike you, I belong to the same adult uncles who do not need to learn the history of the collapse of the USSR and the formation of heaps of independent states in its place - since these uncles had the opportunity to observe all this personally.
                        So: if you discard all history books published in the post-Soviet years, and instead strain your own memory, it turns out there were TWO referendums. Surprised? The first - in March 1991, about the preservation of the USSR and that Ukraine should remain in this very USSR, about 80% of the population voted “FOR”. The second referendum is December 1991, already on the complete independence of Ukraine, “FOR” - 90% of the population. Only 8 months, and the exact opposite result. Strange, right? But nothing strange, if you recall - what events took place между these two referenda. Tell you which ones, or read denim yourself? In independent, so to speak, sources?
                      6. Oldréd
                        Oldréd 1 July 2013 06: 45 New
                        +1
                        Correctly Aloizych used to say in narrow circles that the masses are like a woman of easy virtue. They are easily amenable to propaganda, frivolous and changeable, pursuing momentary hobbies and benefits, forgetting about strategic interests. I have a paternal uncle - a crest from near Vinnitsa, exactly in 1991. I arrived. He also bent “Hoh * yandiya foreva! The whole world will be supplied with fat and gorilka” And then somehow died down and took root here. Don't want to go back
                      7. Cat
                        Cat 1 July 2013 07: 36 New
                        +3
                        Quote: OldRed
                        Correctly Aloizych used to say in narrow circles that the masses are like a woman of easy virtue. They are easily amenable to propaganda, frivolous and changeable, pursuing momentary hobbies and benefits, forgetting about strategic interests. I have a paternal uncle - a crest from near Vinnitsa, exactly in 1991. I arrived. He also bent “Hoh * yandiya foreva! The whole world will be supplied with fat and gorilka” And then somehow died down and took root here. Don't want to go back

                        one might think that at that time the Russians behaved differently. Or near the White House in 1991 - there are completely xoxls under the tanks climbed, with Kravchuk at the head?
          2. Corneli
            Corneli 1 July 2013 01: 09 New
            +3
            Quote: Turner
            Yes, you could not be given independence, but you drowned in it

            You seriously think that if NOT YOUR CURRENT EBN! Who wanted to reign a bit, then Ukraine climbed used to disconnect from the USSR?) Okay)))
        3. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 1 July 2013 05: 06 New
          +1
          Quote: Kars
          This is what you feel now --- and if it happens that we get together, it will take 2-3 minutes to become dependent, clinging to the pipe and hiding from external danger.

          Belarus and Kazakhstan did not! Yes, and as far as I remember, it was precisely in Ukraine that they shouted at one time -it’s enough to feed Moscow. For myself .... everyone’s not worth it.
          1. Kars
            Kars 1 July 2013 09: 20 New
            +1
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Belarus and Kazakhstan did not!

            Have they already joined the Russian Federation?
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            and as far as I remember it was precisely in Ukraine that they shouted at one time — stop feeding Moscow.

            I don’t remember what they shouted, but now we feed them like ours in Kiev.


            And as for Kazakhstan and Belarus, we’ll wait, there is at least one dissatisfied Kazakhstani there - he’s probably hiring a state depot. And from Belarus there are very unpleasant signals, even Batko tells)))
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            By itself all .... not worth it

            Yes, I’m not at ease - I’ve been here a long time ago watched the breadwinners from the Russian Federation
          2. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 2 July 2013 05: 10 New
            0
            Quote: Kars
            Have they already joined the Russian Federation?

            To the vehicle.
            Quote: Kars
            --I have been here a long time ago watched by breadwinners from the Russian Federation

            Oh yes, stop feeding Russia wassat Kars, already heard that, old record, find a new slogan
          3. Kars
            Kars 2 July 2013 11: 38 New
            +1
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            To the vehicle.

            But not to the Russian Federation, even though Belarus has been joining for ten years already.
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Oh yes, stop feeding Russia Kars, already heard that, old record, find a new slogan

            This is not my record, and breadwinners from the Russian Federation, these are those who feed Ukraine.
  2. Corneli
    Corneli 30 June 2013 19: 10 New
    +1
    Dear Andrey, about your post to Kars:
    Quote: Andrey Skokovsky
    ask yourself the question: “when Ukraine was richer independent and sovereign, before 1991 or after? When did the people of Ukraine have more confidence in their future? When did it just stupidly increase in quantity !?”

    Ask yourself the same about Russia ... As for greater "wealth", "independence", "sovereignty", "confidence in your future" and "increase, stupidly quantitatively" population of Russia, since 91g. (USSR collapsed, comparable to the USSR) I somehow don’t see improvements! No need to fool yourself! YES! Comparable to Ukraine, MB and not bad, but comparable to "real capacity" how? If now (in the last articles) there is a controversy over “foreign bases” in Cyprus, for example ... Does Russia seem to pull ... or not? (At the same time, in the days of the USSR, there were NO such questions at all!
  • Corneli
    Corneli 30 June 2013 18: 59 New
    -8
    Quote: Kars
    Quote: Andrey Skokovsky
    Unfortunately, you don’t understand that you aren’t being touched for one single reason - there is Russia.
    What are you? Really?
    Quote: Andrey Skokovsky
    If there was no Russia, all neighbors would have thrown you without exception!
    It's probably nice to think of yourself that way. Defenders.

    Comrade Kars, do me a favor, don’t take everything with hostility) our Russian opponents, unfortunately, are not quite in the subject of (Ukrainian realities) (And criticism or otherwise from the (Russian) “common” opinion is perceived too aggressively! (Again, in mind lack of "adequate" information, they basically just can not see the situation with our eyes) (
  • Corneli
    Corneli 1 July 2013 01: 13 New
    +1
    Quote: Kars
    Quote: Andrey Skokovsky
    Unfortunately, you don’t understand that you aren’t being touched for one single reason - there is Russia.
    What are you? Really?
    Quote: Andrey Skokovsky
    If there was no Russia, all neighbors would have thrown you without exception!
    It's probably nice to think of yourself that way. Defenders.

    I see a lot of minuses) Do you want a "joke"? After all, it is Russia and WOW! USA!!! guarantors of our, Ukrainian, independence and immunity! You, apparently, forgot under what "guarantees" Ukraine refused nuclear weapons?)
    1. Andrey Skokovsky
      Andrey Skokovsky 1 July 2013 08: 56 New
      +1
      Gaddafi also promised a lot of things ...
      1. roial
        roial 5 July 2013 22: 23 New
        0
        but in the end they just passed
  • Ruslan67
    Ruslan67 1 July 2013 05: 18 New
    +2
    Quote: Kars
    It's probably nice to think of yourself that way. Defenders.

    Not always request So what to do? wassat
    1. Kars
      Kars 1 July 2013 09: 22 New
      +1
      Quote: Ruslan67
      Not always

      Not always nice? Or not always a quarterback?
      Quote: Ruslan67
      So what to do?

      I see
  • smart ass
    smart ass 1 July 2013 07: 31 New
    0
    I think the guys are right if we broke the ridge of Georgians for Abkhazia in 5 days ... For Ukraine, and even more so.
  • svp67
    svp67 30 June 2013 13: 43 New
    0
    Quote: Andrey Skokovsky
    Unfortunately, you do not understand that you are not touched for one single reason - there is Russia.
    And "why touch her"? Does she have oil, gas? Or some other natural resources? So far, Ukraine is not interested in anyone in terms of military capture, but in economic terms, it’s both a market and a possible platform for production using cheap and fully qualified workforce ...
  • Corneli
    Corneli 30 June 2013 18: 34 New
    +1
    Quote: self-propelled
    Sorry, but this is negligible for the army, which recently received almost no new weapons. compare the same army of Poland (with a population slightly less than in Ukraine) with the army of Ukraine. Unfortunately, the comparison is not in favor of Ukraine.

    Poland’s GDP is 2, 2,5 times larger than Ukraine’s ... Since Poland is a member of NATO, its defense spending should be at least 2%, and not 1% in Ukraine (... (For a long time it was interesting how pan Yushch, was he planning to join NATO if his defense spending reached 0.5% of GDP? And this without rearmament to "NATO standards"? belay ) The population of Poland, by the way, is less than approx. 8 million people. (not so small), but since NATO + GDP ... the conclusions are not in our favor (
    P.S. The army of Poland = 120 thousand, the army of Ukraine = 184 thousand (with a reduction of yes 120 in 2017)
  • domokl
    domokl 30 June 2013 10: 13 New
    16
    Ukraine is the largest state in Europe. By the territory for sure (except for our Eurasia wink ). And the destruction of the real army, turning it into a funny one, like the Baltic states and the rest of the former socialist countries, drives the country into the list of European rogue countries. They seem to be there, but they are not interesting to anyone.
    Having a perfectly working (namely, working, judging by the results) scientific and technical base, having a perfectly debugged, although largely outdated production of weapons, Ukraine refuses all this ...
    So far I am the only one who has put a minus to the article, for some reason everyone has again slipped into slogans about brotherhood and some sort of future unity. All this is nonsense. The country is independent and will remain like that (if it remains at all).
    Israel, with much lesser capabilities, has become a leader in arms sales in some areas, but Ukraine is being buried together ... Gently, a handful of sand, but they are being buried. We need to produce weapons, export weapons and the army, not reduce them and upgrade them. Due to export.
    1. vitamin
      vitamin ky 30 June 2013 17: 39 New
      +5
      I agree with many things — moreover, if you throw away the general background of the article and other informative garbage — a legitimate question pops up — we will reduce the army — and what ????????
      (C) reduced from 180 thousand people to 122 thousand. - what to do with the problem of employment — housing and other bells and whistles of life? —and this is in the plans — and at the moment in these areas there is already a catastrophic situation — we have few problems —? —a quite distinct picture is created — complete insanity — lack of logic in planning and the state’s strategies at the moment - so and in the future - we just hawal both inside and out
      (C) - Ukraine is just being buried .... safely in a handful, but it is being buried ... - that's right Komrad - that's right sad
      1. Kars
        Kars 30 June 2013 17: 48 New
        +4
        Quote: vitamin-ky
        what to do with the problem of employment — housing and other bells and whistles of life? —and this is, after all, the plans — and at the moment in these areas are already catastrophic — that we have few problems —?

        and from here it follows that it is necessary for the state budget to support 60 clumsy men outside the creative sphere of activity? to exclude them from the GDP production cycle
        1. vitamin
          vitamin ky 30 June 2013 18: 04 New
          +1
          under normal planning — and an unallocated budget — YES— (answer) —or do you think that with a catastrophic situation in industry and economy, these people as a slave will benefit? —To take away the costs of profiling and studying and other chips
          all b nothing, and 60 is power, but if you start any progress, it’s not like not from the middle of the process, but from the very beginning, that is, from job creation and not from burning it
          Actually, I don’t argue, I wanted to, I noticed that putting a horse behind a carriage is the right decision with respect hi
          1. Kars
            Kars 30 June 2013 18: 17 New
            +1
            Quote: vitamin-ky
            under normal planning, and an unbroken budget, YES

            Yes, it’s not a question of parasites, you can even keep it up, but still keep it. You just shouldn’t count on new equipment and raising pensions.
            Quote: vitamin-ky
            or do you think that in a catastrophic situation in industry and in the economy, these people as a slave force will benefit?

            Slave power is always useful, and don’t need so bad things about industry, and now you can’t find a normal turner, and you will see the situation improves.
            Quote: vitamin-ky
            add here the costs of profiling and studying and other chips

            all 60 are officers? Someone will be thrown into Vveshnikov, someone will go to the Ministry of Emergencies and the cops, guards.
            Quote: vitamin-ky
            all b nothing, and 60 is power, but if you start any progress, it’s not like not from the middle of the process, but from the very beginning, that is, from job creation and not from burning it

            Well, how cleverly it was thought up to create jobs and keep parasites, if it is already clear that so much is not necessary. And if the reduction is not obstructed for me, the gradual reduction.
            Quote: vitamin-ky
            Actually, I don’t argue. I wanted to. I noticed that putting a horse behind a carriage is the right decision.

            And loading the horse beyond measure is also not particularly correct.
            1. domokl
              domokl 30 June 2013 20: 12 New
              +1
              Yes, it’s not a question of parasites, you can even keep it up, but still keep it. You just shouldn’t count on new equipment and raising pensions. A strange position for a statesman .. Throw out trained officers to a citizen, for what? And who will they become? not badly trained fighters?
              If I know how to kill, then in order to live with dignity, I have to kill .. Never will I become a peasant ...
              1. Kars
                Kars 30 June 2013 22: 09 New
                +2
                Quote: domokl
                Throw out trained officers on a citizen, for what?

                Directly such super trained? Directly of all military officers?
                Quote: domokl
                if I know how to kill, then in order to live with dignity, I have to kill .. Never will I become a peasant ...

                Well, you will die in the zone. Now it’s not the 90s. And to kill from a howitzer, or a tank in a civilian is not particularly applicable.
          2. Corneli
            Corneli 30 June 2013 18: 53 New
            +5
            Quote: vitamin-ky
            - Or do you think that in a catastrophic situation in industry and in the economy, these people as a slave force will benefit?

            Without making a debate about the position of the army ... about cx Ukraine you are wrong ... There is no catastrophe (although this is probably strange). CX products are developed MORE than enough, there’s simply nowhere to store them, there is no way to transport norms (even within the country), there is no way to export / sell to those who need a crap (. This, unfortunately, is a complex problem ...
            P.S. By the way, no one needs Ukraine as the “nurse” of the world! For it interferes with certain forces (international corporations), dumping prices and all that ...
            1. vitamin
              vitamin ky 30 June 2013 23: 45 New
              +2
              Well, you know, this is a bust; I’m probably living in the wrong Ukraine and buying the wrong products, fruits, vegetables, Polish-Turkish, Chinese groats, milk powder, domestic, don’t engage in self-deception, there are plenty of warehouses and storage, but you need to put and store there there’s nothing — by the nature of my activity, I ride around Ukraine quite often — but I don’t dare to speak for everything — like the example of the Dnepropetrovsk region — a hitch to the vault — how much do you say offhand cattle and vegetables? -Yes ZERO -you only have a small amount in subsidiary farms -This also concerns other animals -but relying on personal farms against state production is a utopia-mainly sow seeds and grass on the wheat (I forgot to grind bio-fuel from it in Germany) -yes and that’s for prazdai — so the result is clear and what do you think that other troubles happen with these troubles — yes, the same fraction of meat and cereal products purchased from the people working on the earth doesn’t solve problems only emphasizes — and eat supermarket rubbish
              I have many friends who do business in the food sector — they openly say that they are rejected by domestic raw material purchasers — the brother is more profitable overseas guano so I agree with the last part of your post — Ukraine the leader in the production of grubs is not needed either by the rest of Europe
              1. Corneli
                Corneli 1 July 2013 02: 22 New
                0
                Quote: vitamin-ky
                Well, you know, this is a bust; I’m probably living in the wrong Ukraine and buying the wrong products, fruits, vegetables, Polish-Turkish, Chinese groats, milk powder, domestic, don’t engage in self-deception, there are plenty of warehouses and storage, but you need to put and store there there’s nothing — by the nature of my activity, I ride around Ukraine quite often — but I don’t dare to speak for everything — like the example of the Dnepropetrovsk region — a hitch to the vault — how much do you say offhand cattle and vegetables? -Yes ZERO -you only have a small amount in subsidiary farms -This also concerns other animals -but relying on personal farms against state production is a utopia-mainly sow seeds and grass on the wheat (I forgot to grind bio-fuel from it in Germany) -yes and that’s for prazdai — so the result is clear and what do you think that other troubles happen with these troubles — yes, the same fraction of meat and cereal products purchased from the people working on the earth doesn’t solve problems only emphasizes — and eat supermarket rubbish
                I have many friends who do business in the food sector — they openly say that they are rejected by domestic raw material purchasers — the brother is more profitable overseas guano so I agree with the last part of your post — Ukraine the leader in the production of grubs is not needed either by the rest of Europe

                No, you live in that Ukraine, but this problem has been there for many years! (Actually, one of the most powerful “outbreaks” was back in the days of Yulia Batkovna (she threatened to make super-duper agrarians-breadwinners from Ukraine there!), here’s the current, even to her (an extremely inadequately stubborn “winner”) was proved live, she’s stupidly raving! Her fantasies were ... like we (Ukraine), we will export min. 100 tons of grain, and they tell her: “how? After all, not counting the storage, designed for 30-40 tons, there are also banal railroad transportation to ports and the ability to load goods from these very ports ...” That is, in order to sell the grown cx products, you must at least have the infrastructure for storage and transportation! But in Ukraine this is not near! (because it was not necessary before)
                And this modest trouble, mind you, is not something "enemy machinations", but just ours, our inner side! Which is not so easy to fix!
                And if you invest a lot of loot in it, a different problem will come out ... "world monopolists", the WTO, with all the consequences and propagating blacks / Arabs, and all the more so they don’t need all sorts of “Ukrainians” who will give them dofig deshovog grub to multiply
                So you buy what they “allow” us! (Not because Ukraine cannot produce it cheaper, but because the x-th will allow it!
              2. Akim
                Akim 1 July 2013 05: 21 New
                0
                Quote: vitamin-ky
                I’m probably living in the wrong Ukraine. And I’m buying the wrong product. Fruits, vegetables, Polish-Turkish, Chinese groups, Milk powder, domestic

                I buy everything Ukrainian (with the exception of Egyptian bananas and Turkish mandarins. Of course, if you are too lazy, you go to the supermarket and buy everything according to the list, as you said. And then recently fruits and vegetables of Ukrainian origin have been scattered from shelves. Spanish apples and Egyptian remain potatoes and bell peppers (pr-va Turkey). Whoever seeks will always find.
        2. vitamin
          vitamin ky 30 June 2013 18: 15 New
          +2
          I’ll post a post in your branch, because people don’t understand in another way, you can’t stop minding minuses, but on a whim.
          Kars-man, first of all, and has his own opinion, what to shoot for it !!!!!
          all the more thought he makes sensible - the logic is present - it is pleasant to conduct a dialogue with a person.
          1. Kars
            Kars 30 June 2013 18: 24 New
            +1
            Quote: vitamin-ky
            stop comrades minus not help but on a whim.

            Comrades do not like dissent. Although some former submariners would tell why they are minus)))
            1. Andrey Skokovsky
              Andrey Skokovsky 30 June 2013 18: 37 New
              +3
              for separatism
              1. Kars
                Kars 30 June 2013 18: 39 New
                +4
                Quote: Andrey Skokovsky
                for separatism

                What other separatism))))) What are you talking about? How do you attract Yeltsin for this article and bring me a claim))) But the USSR is gone and I can’t be a separatist))
    2. mark7
      mark7 30 June 2013 19: 17 New
      0
      you forgot to write IMHO, maybe the Westerners will separate and Crimeans?
    3. Corneli
      Corneli 30 June 2013 19: 38 New
      +1
      Quote: domokl
      Ukraine is Europe’s largest state. It’s for sure (except for our Eurasia wink). And the destruction of a real army, turning it into a funny one, like the Baltic states and other former socialist countries, drives the country into the list of European rogue countries. .

      Honestly, I didn’t realize ... we have 4 tanks for the whole country? ((Fl if you compare it with the Baltic states?) Or is it a bit easier ... like Ukraine, of course, after Russia, regardless of all sides 2 army (both in strength, in advancement, and in number), but if you compare with the power of the USSR, isn’t it? (I just ask you not to push Temko about "nuclear weapons and their carriers" because there really were Russia + the USA (have?) guarantors! And then Enta quote:
      "Armed with the Armed Forces of Ukraine even strategic bombers Tu-160, but later they were transferred to Russia against gas debt"
      it’s just killing me (Tu-160, this is, first of all, nuclear carriers! Consequently, the “transferred” were not just like that (like the rest of the nuclear weapons and their carriers ... there were guarantees, interested parties, etc.)
    4. Ruslan67
      Ruslan67 30 June 2013 21: 01 New
      +3
      Quote: domokl
      While I'm the only one who put a minus article,

      For example, for principle, with very few exceptions, I don’t put the pros or cons to the articles - just out of respect for work Since I myself have not written a single request Even if I don’t like this, my personal opinion and no more, but I reflect the attitude to issues in posts
  • Arberes
    Arberes 30 June 2013 15: 12 New
    +5
    Quote: Kars
    while Ukraine abandoned the NUCLEAR weapons

    If it had not refused, would the last money be spent on the maintenance and storage of the nuclear arsenal? After all, this is also an expensive pleasure. hi

    Quote: Kars
    We have always been one people. Russia, Ukraine, Belarus.

    It was a glorious time! But if it was destined to separate, then go together shoulder to shoulder why not? drinks
    1. Kars
      Kars 30 June 2013 15: 18 New
      +4
      Quote: Arberes
      If it had not refused, would the last money be spent on the maintenance and storage of the nuclear arsenal? After all, this is also an expensive pleasure.

      The question is of course interesting. KB Yushcheroy and Yuzhmash stayed with us. So they could have kept silos with SS-20 in combat readiness. Then, it was possible to try to remove money from the USA for protection and maintenance. They didn’t want to keep nuclear the thing got to the terrorists. But this is all fortune-telling on the coffee grounds. I don’t know what the position of the same USA was, whether it allowed fluctuations, or was ultimatum on a nuclear-free status. I personally do not need nuclear weapons on the territory of Ukraine. But carriers can It was saved. A hundred kg of explosives and a couple of fuel rods from the Chernobyl nuclear power plant will cause any country very unpleasant damage.


      Below in your comment, not my words are pronounced.
      1. Arberes
        Arberes 30 June 2013 15: 53 New
        +4
        Well, on nuclear weapons - the United States and other countries of the nuclear club would most likely not be delighted if Ukraine would decide on the status of a nuclear power! You yourself know very well how painfully the so-called nuclear club and its leading powers (England, France) react to this.

        Quote: Kars
        Below in your comment, not my words are pronounced.

        Yes, I see, I just outlined my position on a certain friendly alliance of the Slavic states. Personally, I am only for!
        And what do you think? hi
        1. Kars
          Kars 30 June 2013 15: 57 New
          +2
          Quote: Arberes
          the nuclear club countries would most likely not be delighted if Ukraine decides to become a nuclear power!

          Well, there is such a thing that de facto Ukraine was a nuclear power.
          Quote: Arberes
          friendly alliance of Slavic states. Personally, I am only for!

          and what is the CIS? I have nothing against a friendly alliance. That's just all too cunning, and we are among them.
          1. Arberes
            Arberes 30 June 2013 16: 09 New
            +3
            Quote: Kars
            and what is the CIS?

            Well, as far as I remember, Ukraine has not ratified the CIS charter, so de jure it is not a member state of the CIS?
            Oh, these legal stuff?
            1. Kars
              Kars 30 June 2013 16: 25 New
              +2
              Quote: Arberes
              Well, as far as I remember, Ukraine has not ratified the CIS charter, so de jure it is not a member state of the CIS?



              Russia December 11, 1991 December 23, 1991 July 20, 1994 in 1997 denounced

              you see something like this))
              Quote: Arberes
              Oh, these legal stuff?

              yes who will understand them
              Flag of Ukraine.svg Ukraine: Ukraine has not ratified the CIS Charter, therefore de jure it is not a CIS member state, referring to the founding states and the CIS member states
          2. Civil
            Civil 30 June 2013 17: 56 New
            0
            you never know what Russia forgot in Ukraine during the collapse, everything will have to be given and returned
            1. Kars
              Kars 30 June 2013 18: 18 New
              +1
              Quote: Civil
              you never know what Russia forgot in Ukraine during the collapse, everything will have to be given and returned

              We got overclocked)))) and you can even look for what they deprived us of. This is the same as the nuclear submarine fleet was built by the whole union, but it remained only in the Russian Federation.
              1. Ruslan67
                Ruslan67 30 June 2013 18: 21 New
                +3
                Quote: Kars
                ) and you can even look what cheated us.

                Apparently the brains fool
                1. Kars
                  Kars 30 June 2013 18: 23 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Ruslan67
                  Apparently the brains

                  Who is missing what he is talking about?
                2. Ruslan67
                  Ruslan67 30 June 2013 18: 26 New
                  +7
                  Quote: Kars
                  Who is missing what he is talking about?

                  Well, you definitely do not have enough nuclear submarines in the Black Sea -OMP against Romania Flood off the coast and the shelf at Snake's is yours again
                3. Kars
                  Kars 30 June 2013 18: 31 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Ruslan67
                  Well, you definitely do not have enough nuclear submarines in the Black Sea -OMP against Romania Flood off the coast and the shelf at Snake's is yours again

                  And the principle? You didn’t take all of your campaigns out? Or maybe you disagree that the USSR’s submarine fleet was built by joint efforts including Ukraine?

                  As for the snake --- we got more than the USSR wanted at the time, the dispute was still from there. And the nuclear submarine would look great in the Sea of ​​Azov - it certainly would not have sunk.
                4. Ruslan67
                  Ruslan67 30 June 2013 18: 35 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Kars
                  The submarine would look great in the Sea of ​​Azov - it certainly would not have sunk.

                  + for humor laughing
                  Quote: Kars
                  You didn’t take out all of your campaigns? And

                  Maybe it’s enough to take it out, but it’s time to think about the reunion?
                  Quote: Kars
                  -we got more than the USSR wanted at the time,

                  The USSR did not care about this at the time, and with it this question did not arise
                  Quote: Kars
                  was the Soviet submarine fleet built by common efforts including Ukraine?

                  But now you are absolutely independent, including from the general fleet
                5. Kars
                  Kars 30 June 2013 18: 42 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Ruslan67
                  + for humor

                  and not a statement of fact?
                  Quote: Ruslan67
                  Maybe it’s enough to take it out, but it’s time to think about the reunion?

                  There is no time, as you begin to build communism and you can overthrow the king.
                  Quote: Ruslan67
                  The Soviet Socialist Republic did not give a damn about it at that time, and with it this question did not arise

                  Do not care and the question was raised
                  Quote: Ruslan67
                  But now you are absolutely independent, including from the general fleet

                  I just do not need a powerful fleet in Ukraine.
                6. Ruslan67
                  Ruslan67 30 June 2013 18: 48 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Kars
                  Do not care and the question was raised

                  With romania? Well, the question is not a member can and stand
                  Quote: Kars
                  how you begin to build communism and the king overthrow can be.

                  Again for everything ready?
                  Quote: Kars
                  and not a statement of fact?

                  This is for British scientists - they are based on their research fool love to state such facts
                7. Kars
                  Kars 30 June 2013 19: 06 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Ruslan67
                  With romania? Well, the question is not a member can and stand

                  Everything can be, but the fact is the fact, Ukraine received more than the USSR wanted.
                  Quote: Ruslan67
                  Again for everything ready?

                  Naturally, only this time can without your bayonets.
                  Quote: Ruslan67
                  This is for British scientists - they, on the basis of their research, love to state such facts

                  Why is it so difficult to see the depths of the Sea of ​​Azov))) And in Berdyansk it could be made an excellent attraction, even fixed missiles. It would be interesting for me to have Ukraine nuclear submarines like Kursk, with ICBMs not particularly gentle.
                8. gladiatorakz
                  gladiatorakz 30 June 2013 19: 52 New
                  +5
                  Quote: Kars
                  ) And in Berdyansk it was possible to make an excellent attraction from it, even fixed rockets

                  Can be used as an inflatable banana. She can still drag parachutes. Make a slide with her. Fit the boat in short, work halfway. laughing
                  Just from the sea. Just Berdyansk. The mood is fire! On the beach, one in three is from Russia. Most are adequate people. Sea, fishing, fish soup, volleyball bring everyone together. There on the beach, the Union campaign has not yet collapsed. bully
                9. Ruslan67
                  Ruslan67 30 June 2013 20: 20 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Kars
                  could make an excellent attraction, even with fixed rockets

                  You have already made an attraction from a whole country. Thank God rockets have been removed from you. bully
                  Quote: Kars
                  Naturally, only this time can without your bayonets.

                  This is unlikely. But for sure with your fat but without you
                  Quote: Kars
                  Ukraine received more than the USSR wanted.

                  The USSR wanted the whole world And what did you get the moon? wassat
                10. Kars
                  Kars 30 June 2013 22: 13 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Ruslan67
                  You have already made an attraction from a whole country. Thank God rockets have been removed from you.

                  You coped no worse than us.
                  Quote: Ruslan67
                  This is unlikely. But for sure with your fat but without you

                  Well then, I can fulfill one dream from the list - like the T-90 from RPG 26 (nothing personal - Abrash and Eclair on the same list.)
                  Quote: Ruslan67
                  The USSR wanted the whole world And what did you get the moon?

                  From Romania? A high world? And how does this include the transfer of the Domansky island to China?
                11. Ruslan67
                  Ruslan67 1 July 2013 01: 13 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Kars
                  I will fulfill one dream from the list - like the T-90 from RPG 26 (

                  Maybe all the same RPG-29?
                  Quote: Kars
                  You coped no worse than us.

                  Better request Our GUESTS are tougher
                  Quote: Kars
                  From romania?

                  Where is it? what
                  Quote: Kars
                  And how does this include transferring Domansky Island to China?

                  After Lyuley raked the Chinese at his own expense blotted him
                12. Kars
                  Kars 1 July 2013 09: 26 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Ruslan67
                  Maybe all the same RPG-29?

                  If you give, in the meantime, from what is, and where to shoot, I know, do not worry.
                  Quote: Ruslan67
                  Better. GUESTS are tougher.

                  Away))) and TU?
                  Quote: Ruslan67
                  Where is it?

                  Was Geography at school? Or are you thinking too much about yourself? You probably shouldn't ask about San Marino, although it’s pretty nice there.
                  Quote: Ruslan67
                  After Lyuley raked the Chinese at his own expense blotted him
                  Learn the history of the island as it was and remains only now in Chinese called.
  • svp67
    svp67 30 June 2013 18: 31 New
    +5
    Quote: Kars
    We got overclocked)))) and you can even look for what they deprived us of. This is the same as the nuclear submarine fleet was built by the whole union, but it remained only in the Russian Federation.
    Oh, it begins ... So Varyag and Ulyanovsk built the entire USSR, but nevertheless Ukraine considered them to be their own and disposed of it on its own ...
    1. Kars
      Kars 30 June 2013 18: 33 New
      +1
      Quote: svp67
      Oh, begins ... T

      Notice does not begin with me

      Quote: Civil
      Civil (1) Today, 17: 56 ↑
      you never know what Russia forgot in Ukraine during the collapse, everything will have to be given and returned

      Quote: svp67
      So Varyag and Ulyanovsk built the entire USSR, but nevertheless Ukraine considered them to be their own and disposed of it on its own.

      Yes, the whole of the USSR, but the split went according to a strange scenario. So the assets are not divided. But what can you do here.
    2. svp67
      svp67 30 June 2013 18: 53 New
      +5
      Quote: Kars
      Notice does not begin with me
      Yes, what is there to notice, the main thing is that both sides with GREAT energy are ready to support this assault. As in that joke, about the division of property of two spouses, when everything was divided, but TWO pillows remained.
      He: - Well, what will we share the pillows?
      She: Yes. Cut, wake up counting feathers ...
      Sad Even on a personal level, we are now looking for what separates us than what can unite us ...
    3. Kars
      Kars 30 June 2013 19: 07 New
      +1
      Quote: svp67
      Yes, what is there to notice, the main thing is that both sides with BIG energy are ready to support this assault

      And what needs to be silent? This is not for me.
    4. svp67
      svp67 30 June 2013 19: 14 New
      +6
      Quote: Kars
      And what needs to be silent? This is not for me.
      The fact that you are SO conducting a conversation, from the very beginning makes the conversation unpromising. We must not seek what separates us, but what unites us. We must seek common ground. Can Russia and Ukraine live separately, history has shown that YES. Whether they have become more developed states from this, of course, NO. From this I draw a simple conclusion, if we want to live better, we certainly need to combine our efforts.
    5. gladiatorakz
      gladiatorakz 30 June 2013 19: 58 New
      +1
      Quote: svp67
      We must not seek what separates us, but what unites us. We must seek common ground.

      Absolutely agree! I am constantly writing about this. But it can be difficult to pass without an answer to some kind of comment by a cheer patriot (in a bad sense of the word). Of course together we are power! But everyone forgot how it is - together. Different visions of the path and the ultimate goal, even for those who set themselves these goals.
    6. Kars
      Kars 30 June 2013 22: 16 New
      +1
      Quote: svp67
      that you are in such a way leading the conversation, from the very beginning makes the conversation hopeless.

      And what is the conversation on this site has great prospects in principle?
      Quote: svp67
      From this I draw a simple conclusion, if we want to live better, we certainly need to combine our efforts.

      Ukraine will not live better with the neo-imperial position of the Russian Federation.
    7. teodorh
      teodorh 30 June 2013 22: 27 New
      +1
      Ukraine will live worse. Do not make our mistake. Tc is a mistake. But I hope NAS will understand this soon and we will leave.
    8. svp67
      svp67 30 June 2013 22: 28 New
      -2
      Quote: Kars
      And what is the conversation on this site has great prospects in principle?
      Any conversation can have a perspective, the main thing is to want it.
      Quote: Kars
      Ukraine will not live better with the neo-imperial position of the Russian Federation.
      Yes, “get involved” about which NEOEMPIRE you are talking about? In this historical situation, this is impossible. Russia is not threatening anyone and is not angry with anyone, it is now focusing ... We have a very pragmatic leadership in power. But I would be very happy. if our countries could find a common language on this issue and, as in the old days, act together ... This would be of mutual benefit.
    9. Kars
      Kars 30 June 2013 22: 40 New
      +1
      Quote: svp67
      Any conversation can have a perspective, the main thing is to want

      If you really want to be able to fly into space? But today on this branch I must admit you surprised me.
      Quote: svp67
      Yes, “get involved” about which NEOEMPIRE you are talking about?

      Well, you can okstitsa but a neo-imperial position on the face, and the TS is one of his tools.
      Quote: svp67
      .Russia is not threatening anyone and is not angry with anyone, it is now focusing.
      How is this about Israel? And many more.
      Quote: svp67
      But I would be very happy. if our countries could find a common language on this issue and, as in the old days, act together

      There was no common language even then, it was all about the bayonets and sailors of the revolutionaries. And it cost many millions of lives. I don’t want to repeat it. By the way, I blame the rotten tsarist regime for all this.
    10. svp67
      svp67 30 June 2013 22: 47 New
      -1
      Quote: Kars
      How is this about Israel? And many more.

      Yes, it was so “threatened”, if “angry”, it would have a completely different look and the main consequences ... That’s why they were “angry” with Georgia ...
      Quote: Kars
      Even then there was no common language, the whole thing was in the bayonets and sailors of the revolutionaries. And it cost many millions of lives.
      Are you sure that our disunity will not cost more to both of our peoples?
    11. svp67
      svp67 30 June 2013 22: 55 New
      -1
      Quote: Kars
      , surprised by the fact that they opted.
      I do not like "cheers-patriots." They very easily change their points of view, and each time these are “extreme” points of view, and nothing good can ever happen, you always need to look for common ground and build relationships on them. A lean world is always better than a good war ...
      Quote: Kars
      Well, you can okstitsa but a neo-imperial position on the face, and the TS is one of his tools.

      I honestly don’t even understand what you see as "neo-imperialism"?
    12. Kars
      Kars 30 June 2013 23: 06 New
      +1
      Quote: svp67
      Are you sure that our disunity will not cost more to both of our peoples?
      I’m lying if I say that I’m sure. But most likely it won’t cost more if the Russian Federation doesn’t throw a fortress. We’re not capable of that, in principle. It’s not enough. Bandera is arming, but it is preparing to strike with the wrong hands of the Russian Federation and the like.
      Quote: svp67
      I honestly don’t even understand what you see as "neo-imperialism"?

      I see, in many ways, starting from foreign policy to internal rhetoric. Now even the Imperials (such a nickname) are running around.
    13. svp67
      svp67 30 June 2013 23: 10 New
      -1
      Quote: Kars
      . But most likely it will not cost more if it is not the Russian Federation that throws out any fortune.
      That is, the policy of your state, in your opinion, is always true and correct?
    14. Kars
      Kars 30 June 2013 23: 12 New
      +3
      Quote: svp67
      That is, the policy of your state, in your opinion, is always true and correct?

      I didn’t say this. But the fact that our foreign policy is not as significant as the Russian Federation, therefore, the mistakes of the latter can lead to big problems.
  • svp67
    svp67 30 June 2013 23: 14 New
    -2
    Quote: Kars
    I see, in many ways, starting from foreign policy to internal rhetoric. Now even the Imperials (such a nickname) are running around.
    As far as I know, all the "neo-empire" of our authorities is subordinated to only one task - to create good conditions for our own economy. There are no territorial claims, with the exception of the statements of some "populist" figures, however, there can be no question of true politics. there really is simply no time for such "nonsense", there are a lot of internal problems in the country and they must be solved "yesterday"
  • Kars
    Kars 30 June 2013 23: 21 New
    +1
    Quote: svp67
    No territorial claims,

    So far, well, I don’t know, I personally grew up in an atmosphere of office struggle a notch higher - and I am intuitively aware of the neo-imperial position, close everything to myself, cut off the relationship of partners with the outside world to the maximum, and when there is complete dependence then there will be a solution to the issue.
  • Corneli
    Corneli 1 July 2013 02: 56 New
    +3
    Quote: svp67
    The fact that you are SO conducting a conversation, from the very beginning makes the conversation unpromising. We must not seek what separates us, but what unites us. We must seek common ground.

    Take it easy, but the sheep for Kars ... rather, it’s always just got tired of arguing ... calmly ... it's like beating against the wall with your forehead (Moreover, the more time passes, the worse! For Russian users, such "fantasies" already arise. ..just a kapets! They are only 20 years old (that is, they didn’t live in the USSR and had no idea what they really were and how). It’s just that the brain is already so washed ... it’s not necessary further (remembering Zadornov ... well, the Russians ... just like the Americans.) Adequate comments, just get lost on the background of stupid "hurray"! (In Russia, the campaign stupidly forgot who destroyed the USSR (apparently it is believed that this country is Ukraine belay ) And if, all of a sudden, the comments (under the hated, apparently many, "yellow-black" flag, and even not compatible with the opinion of the "zombie masses") are not Russian ... so go and hang yourself ...
  • svp67
    svp67 2 July 2013 19: 23 New
    0
    Quote: Corneli
    In Russia, the campaign stupidly forgotten who destroyed the USSR (apparently it is believed that this country is Ukraine

    On the whole, I understand and, in principle, support your statement, but do not forget that the USSR "collapsed" and Ukraine too ... Do not take off your responsibility.
  • Avenger711
    Avenger711 30 June 2013 20: 57 New
    -1
    Then a lot was divided at the place of actual location on date X, for example, railway cars.
  • nickname 1 and 2
    nickname 1 and 2 30 June 2013 19: 24 New
    +1
    Quote: Kars
    nuclear submarine fleet


    So they themselves refused!
    1. Kars
      Kars 30 June 2013 22: 17 New
      +2
      Quote: nick 1 and 2
      So they themselves refused!

      When did we abandon nuclear submarines without ICBMs?
    2. svp67
      svp67 30 June 2013 22: 35 New
      0
      Quote: Kars
      When did we abandon nuclear submarines without ICBMs?
      At the time of signing the Bialowieza Agreements ...
    3. Kars
      Kars 30 June 2013 22: 44 New
      +2
      Quote: svp67
      At the time of signing the Bialowieza Agreements ..

      Is it specifically written there?
      type
      Is Ukraine giving up nuclear submarines? Is there a specific point? It is strange how it was that they later had to give up nuclear weapons separately.
    4. svp67
      svp67 2 July 2013 21: 05 New
      0
      Quote: Kars
      Is it specifically written there?
      like Ukraine refuses nuclear submarines?

      You know a lot of things that Ukraine didn’t need in FIG, but it would not hurt Russia, for the Strategic Rocket Forces, to remain in your territory. And this question has already been decided BY FACT, we need, we BUYED ... You need nuclear powered ships - BUY.
    5. Kars
      Kars 3 July 2013 11: 16 New
      +1
      Quote: svp67
      You know a lot of things that Ukraine didn’t need in FIG, but it would not hurt Russia, for the Strategic Missile Forces, to remain in your territory. And this question has already been decided by FACT, we need, we BUYED ... You need nuclear powered ships - BUY.


      Perhaps you have read poorly what the price is, here you need to be more careful - here it is about the justice of the division.
  • albert
    albert 30 June 2013 22: 30 New
    0
    Quote: Kars
    The nuclear submarine fleet was built by the whole union, but it remained only in the Russian Federation.

    Does Uzbekistan or Kyrgyzstan need a nuclear fleet? belay
    1. Kars
      Kars 30 June 2013 22: 35 New
      +1
      Quote: albert
      Does Uzbekistan or Kyrgyzstan need a nuclear fleet?

      And what is surprise? Even if it wasn’t needed, it could be given in money or by barter. Regarding the external debt received from the USSR, the Russian Federation accepted both debts to the USSR and foreign property.
    2. Corneli
      Corneli 1 July 2013 02: 58 New
      0
      Quote: Kars
      And what is surprise? Even if it wasn’t needed, it could be given in money or by barter. Regarding the external debt received from the USSR, the Russian Federation accepted both debts to the USSR and foreign property.

      Kars, do not persecute the demon!) Hammer already on this reunion! ... And then mnu in "pirates" will drive))))
  • Alexander Romanov
    Alexander Romanov 1 July 2013 05: 12 New
    +3
    Quote: Kars
    I. It is necessary that the nuclear submarine fleet was built by the whole union, but it remained only in the Russian Federation.

    You got a good fleet and where it was all, they drank and sold everything and the atomiches would be scrapped.
    1. Ruslan67
      Ruslan67 1 July 2013 05: 17 New
      +3
      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      You got a good fleet and where is it all

      Everything that they get turns into fat and further down the chain laughing
    2. Kars
      Kars 1 July 2013 09: 32 New
      +1
      Quote: Ruslan67
      You got a good fleet and where it is all, they drank and sold everything and the atomiches would be scrapped

      Not so good. It's easy to check. Do it at your leisure.

      If the Zaporizhzhya submarine had not yet been merged, then Pike-B would not have been merged in the difficult years, it would supply the Crimea with electricity.
      Quote: Ruslan67
      what they get turns into fat and further down the chain

      Steriotype thinking?
      Quote: Corneli
      Kars, do not persecute the demon!) Hammer already on this reunion! ... And then mnu in "pirates" will drive))))

      And here it’s still not raised above the Marshal, the excitement of scoring has already passed, but you can not comment.))
    3. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 2 July 2013 04: 58 New
      0
      Quote: Kars
      If the Zaporizhzhya submarine had not yet been merged, then Pike-B would not have been merged

      Yeah, funny and even very laughing write a list of the sold ships of Ukraine And write the kreisers that were unfinished too and where they are now. And where would the submarine be if Russia hadn’t restored it what In scrap metal
    4. Kars
      Kars 2 July 2013 11: 43 New
      +1
      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      Yeah, it’s funny and even very write the list of sold ships of Ukraine. And the cruisers that were unfinished also write and where they are now. And where would the submarine be if Russia hadn’t restored it? In scrap metal


      Write a list of how much Russia sold and drank. There will probably be twenty more. Including READY Cruiser aircraft carriers)). As for the restoration, they paid for it.

      TAKR "Kiev" as an attraction in Tianjin, China, 2004
  • I am a Russian
    I am a Russian 11 July 2013 00: 16 New
    0
    Quote: Kars
    Quote: Ruslan67
    You got a good fleet and where it is all, they drank and sold everything and the atomiches would be scrapped

    Not so good. It's easy to check. Do it at your leisure.

    If the Zaporizhzhya submarine had not yet been merged, then Pike-B would not have been merged in the difficult years, it would supply the Crimea with electricity.
    Quote: Ruslan67
    what they get turns into fat and further down the chain

    Steriotype thinking?
    Quote: Corneli
    Kars, do not persecute the demon!) Hammer already on this reunion! ... And then mnu in "pirates" will drive))))

    And here it’s still not raised above the Marshal, the excitement of scoring has already passed, but you can not comment.))


    Kars how old is Shchuk-B?
  • Corneli
    Corneli 30 June 2013 19: 44 New
    -1
    Quote: Civil
    Did Russia forget in Ukraine during the collapse? Everything will have to be given and returned

    Wow! Megalomania?! Not even 25 years have passed and you suddenly "sang" about "give and return"? Navel does not get loose? _)
  • Corneli
    Corneli 1 July 2013 02: 42 New
    +1
    Quote: Civil
    you never know what Russia forgot in Ukraine during the collapse, everything will have to be given and returned

    What are you saying ?!) You should ask for your debt from your dead EBN! WITHOUT his desires (YES, don’t flatter yourself! Who the hell would the USSR leave! The Baltic States do not count) Absolutely everything will burn from them) Kravchuk as a “revolutionary”, disconnector? yes do not tell my slippers! He’s still in politics ... such a "democrat sand poured". So close this "rotten bazaar", if you do not remember (in infancy). Because without Tsar Yeltsin, who the poor little man thought would steer the TOP Power (RSFSR), without Gorbach, and with some imagination decided that the rest "independent" would run to join him, this current crap wouldn’t exist!
    1. Sour
      Sour 2 July 2013 20: 55 New
      0
      You from your dead EBN ask for debt! WITHOUT his desires (YES YES, do not flatter yourself! Who the hell would anybody leave the USSR!
      ----------------
      Yeltsin has long been in the grave. Why is the Union not restored if the reason was in it?
      You wrote nonsense. The reasons for the collapse of the Union are deeper, and this is obvious. The collapse was logical, otherwise the Union would have broken up for a short time. What moods in Ukraine were in the early 90's, I remember very well. The same as now, the same as always. "Separate from Russia - we will live better than anyone else." It was, and there is no need to deny it. It was even in Tajikistan then, and in Moldova with Georgia. In Ukraine, even more so. The Russians and Russia were to blame for everything - such was the general mood in the "fraternal republics" at that time.
  • Alexander Romanov
    Alexander Romanov 1 July 2013 05: 11 New
    +1
    Quote: Kars

    Well, there is such a thing that de facto Ukraine was a nuclear power.

    Get ready-made rockets and create them are two different things.
    1. Kars
      Kars 1 July 2013 09: 33 New
      +2
      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      Get ready-made rockets and create them are two different things.

      Does this somehow affect the de facto status? And Ukraine participated in the creation of both missiles and nuclear weapons.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 2 July 2013 05: 00 New
        0
        Quote: Kars
        Does this somehow affect the de facto status?

        Ukraine never had any status of a nuclear power, no one recognized it and this is de facto !!!
        1. Kars
          Kars 2 July 2013 11: 45 New
          +1
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Ukraine has never had any status of a nuclear power, no one recognized it, and this is de facto !!!

          Why are you so jerking))) de facto, de jure no. But to admit not to recognize - this nuclear weapon does not change. As they said they had the fourth nuclear arsenal in the world.
  • Corneli
    Corneli 1 July 2013 19: 46 New
    0
    Quote: Arberes
    Well, on nuclear weapons - the United States and other countries of the nuclear club would most likely not be delighted if Ukraine would decide on the status of a nuclear power! You yourself know very well how painfully the so-called nuclear club and its leading powers (England, France) react to this.

    Quote: Kars
    I don’t know what the position of the United States was about this, whether it allowed fluctuations, or was ultimatum on a nuclear-free status.

    "Not enthusiastic", it is weakly said! Bush-senior wire on the phone broke off!) The USA, if you remember, the Soviet Union’s idea of ​​breaking up was perceived extremely negatively (and I think, first of all, because of the appearance of countries with nuclear weapons, with unpredictable, new rulers). So, when Kravchuk was persuaded to give / destroy nuclear weapons and the carriers in the white house there was probably a salute with gypsies)
    And about the "ultimatum" ... it is quite difficult to put ultimatums to a country with an army of 700 thousand people, 1000 aircraft, excellent air defense and ...176 ballistic missiles and 2600 !!! units of tactical nuclear weapons). The DPRK won’t have anything like it (except for the size of the army), but do not rush to attack them (although they have a dozen warheads and miserable short-range launch vehicles), unlike Iraq, Yugoslavia or Libya ... Iran can attack, but the DPRK is somehow reluctant ... I wonder why?)
  • nickname 1 and 2
    nickname 1 and 2 30 June 2013 17: 07 New
    -3
    Quote: Arberes
    then go together shoulder to shoulder why not?


    ..... AT THE SAME PARTY?

    so go.
    1. Arberes
      Arberes 30 June 2013 17: 21 New
      +1
      Quote: nick 1 and 2

      ..... AT THE SAME PARTY?

      so go.

      So we must go our own way, if we consider ourselves independent countries, with our foreign and domestic policies and common interests. The times of brotherhood have passed and we must take into account the interests of each other. We are no longer in the UNION and these are the realities of our states, but friendly and mutually beneficial relations with our neighbors must be maintained.
      Once again about the “same side” —China is going its own way and quite confidently, you say it’s strong and big, but what about Vietnam, it’s thin and coughs, and also does not bend under anyone! Cuba is also in splendid isolation near the United States, but they are walking along a stubbornly beaten path.
      You need to think with your own head, and not go in the direction where the whole herd is rushing!
      1. nickname 1 and 2
        nickname 1 and 2 30 June 2013 17: 55 New
        0
        Quote: Arberes
        You need to think with your own head, and not go in the direction where the whole herd is rushing!


        Yes, you quit! All the rod from the cliff, Ukraine to the cliff!
        "And here we are! Dear!"
        Yes, go, just not "off the cliff"!

        Tell me = we ourselves know where!
        Not if it was written that in Ukraine the people HEARED!
        Now it would be for someone whose tongue has turned to say something like “let's unite”!

        Yes, they would be silent "in a rag" and would be happy for you and for us!
        And when such a "Cry" is in Ukraine, it is so sorry for you, your sisters and brothers, and your tribe!
        And perspective = no hope for the best!
        1. Corneli
          Corneli 30 June 2013 19: 56 New
          0
          Quote: nick 1 and 2
          Yes, you quit! All the rod from the cliff, Ukraine to the cliff!
          "And here we are! Dear!"
          Yes, go, just not "off the cliff"!
          Tell me = we ourselves know where!
          Not if it was written that in Ukraine the people HEARED!
          Now it would be for someone whose tongue has turned to say something like “let's unite”!
          Yes, they would be silent "in a rag" and would be happy for you and for us!
          And when such a "Cry" is in Ukraine, it is so sorry for you, your sisters and brothers, and your tribe!
          And perspective = no hope for the best!

          Well, here you are all wonderfully described! But with what fright, regardless of all the minuses, from the "independence", the people of Ukraine are not rallying for joining Russia? Is it right? Or are you, in your opinion, 46 million idiots who are turning “into the cliff”?) Tipo 14 former republics are all so smart and current ... are we not really?) By the way, would you be silent about the “prospects” ... well .. .da, the global crisis (especially with our seized oligarchs) hit Ukraine WGO-GO !!!! In the current, it did not seem to end ... and not the fact that Russia will not get worse! We, a small country, without special ambitions) But Russia ...
        2. Arberes
          Arberes 30 June 2013 20: 28 New
          +3
          Quote: nick 1 and 2
          Yes, you quit! All the rod from the cliff, Ukraine to the cliff!
          I had in mind not only Ukraine but also Russia. Someone offers Chinese development experience, someone European. Why take someone's path when you can take all the good and effective from both sides and decisively reject all that is unacceptable for us to go further?
          In Ukraine, of course, everything is much more complicated and personally I would like this country to be our reliable neighbor and partner. The peoples, in my opinion, do not mind, but the political elite of our countries lives on their own interests!
          Once again I say that we are different countries, but is it better to live in good neighborliness than in enmity?
          1. Corneli
            Corneli 1 July 2013 03: 10 New
            0
            Quote: Arberes
            I had in mind not only Ukraine but also Russia. Someone offers Chinese development experience, someone European. Why take someone's path when you can take all the good and effective from both sides and decisively reject all that is unacceptable for us to go further?
            In Ukraine, of course, everything is much more complicated and personally I would like this country to be our reliable neighbor and partner. The peoples, in my opinion, do not mind, but the political elite of our countries lives on their own interests!
            Once again I say that we are different countries, but is it better to live in good neighborliness than in enmity?

            And why did you personally decide that Ukraine is against?) The Ukrainian oligarchs, YES, are afraid of absorption (and the withdrawal of what was acquired by "overwork" by the Russian oligarchs). Many workers in competing industries (same as Kharkovites, moreover, ordinary hard workers) are afraid of dismissals, because in Russia, the Kharkov Tank Plant, with its Strongholds, is a T-90 competitor? (and there are many such examples!). And about the “independent” Svidomites / zapadents (who will be immediately chased after joining the Gulag! They think so, without “B” so I’m silent)
            A loss of facts ... read above, who is against? Why against? How much did they figure? And what can Russia offer them, except for the "Slavic brotherhood" (oh sorry ... the "Slavs" are already dumb ... there is current RUSSIAN! ()
      2. Avenger711
        Avenger711 30 June 2013 20: 58 New
        -2
        Vietnam is good at hardening China, Cuba by itself has no value and does not give rise to demolition.
  • Andrey Skokovsky
    Andrey Skokovsky 30 June 2013 18: 39 New
    0
    you can’t be a little pregnant ...
    either together or apart
    1. I am a Russian
      I am a Russian 6 July 2013 17: 45 New
      +1
      Quote: Andrey Skokovsky
      you can’t be a little pregnant ...
      either together or apart


      try
  • rumatam
    rumatam 30 June 2013 17: 31 New
    +1
    we’ve always been running around with us, but in fact, it’s probably so fat, only for yourself.
  • angarchanin
    angarchanin 30 June 2013 18: 54 New
    0
    Of the most “calm” neighbors, Ukraine has Turkey (from century to century claiming to Crimea and the coastal lands of Ukraine), and Moldova and Romania (who have seized the Snake Island). For the Russians, China is no worse than a cat (with its densely populated territories, nuclear attack on which death is similar). That is why life on the principle of "self" ultimately has a dead end path of development.
    1. Kars
      Kars 30 June 2013 19: 10 New
      +2
      Quote: angarchanin
      Of the "calmest" neighbors, Ukraine has Turkey

      Which does not present pritenzy and has its problems to the throat with Kurds, Cypriots, Syria.
      Quote: angarchanin
      and Moldova with Romania

      She has not succumbed to holding huge armies and has sued about it - the army will not help here, even the million-strong one. As for China, the Russian Federation gave him large territories.
      1. Semen Semyonitch
        Semen Semyonitch 30 June 2013 20: 18 New
        +3
        Sorry to interfere with your debate, just tired of reading this grind:
        Brother are you to me !!
        -No no, not a brother. And so on. I don’t presume to judge the opinions of all Ukrainians, but judging by your posts you are very happy with your life. Well, a flag in your hands. As they say, you won’t be forcibly sweet. You are bursting with a feeling of independence ? From whom? From the Kremlin? So your power will be more corrupt. Or do you consider your power a reference? Pans are fighting, at the lackeys forelocks are cracking. When you understand that it’s better together, I’m afraid it will be too late. I’m not trying to convince you, because it’s useless. hi
        1. Kars
          Kars 30 June 2013 22: 21 New
          +2
          Quote: Semen Semenych
          You are very pleased with your posts.

          There are no boundaries for perfection.
          Quote: Semen Semenych
          is bursting with independence? From whom? From the Kremlin? So your power will be more corrupt. Or do you consider your power a reference?

          And who are you celebrating the Independence Day of the Russian Federation from? And maybe it’s just independence, and not somebody else? As for corruption, do you offer less evil? It's not a fact that you are smaller, you just have the most, and there is more after the deriban.
          Quote: Semen Semenych
          Panas are fighting, at lackeys forelocks are cracking

          So do not fight, I personally just live.
    2. Corneli
      Corneli 30 June 2013 20: 08 New
      -1
      Quote: angarchanin
      Of the most “calm” neighbors, Ukraine has Turkey (from century to century claiming to Crimea and the coastal lands of Ukraine), and Moldova and Romania (who have seized the Snake Island). For the Russians, China is no worse than a cat (with its densely populated territories, nuclear attack on which death is similar). That is why life on the principle of "self" ultimately has a dead end path of development.

      WOW !!! FAST !!! Even! "Dangerous" countries ... such as Moldova ... comparable to China ... this is easy! Sorry, "learned" friend, BUT! Turkey, Romania, Poland, Moldova !?))) (YOU ARE FANTASY CROSS! Have you forgotten about Transnistria separating them?) Well, the AMAZING MOLDOVAN ARMY! From which Ukraine is easily beaten off by the forces of the Odessa region)) But! ... China, even now, is easy, at times! will surpass all this kodlo taken together !!! Despite the fact that Russia does not have much power in the Far East!) And if you compare the area for defense + the capabilities of the attackers ... Yes, UKRAINE is 100 TIMES STRONG !!! POSSIBILITY OF PROTECTION! (area, army, etc. ...) Or you have poison current. weapons?) (respectively, hope that Russia is like FOLDERS !?)
      1. Avenger711
        Avenger711 30 June 2013 21: 06 New
        0
        Zero is zero, regardless of area.
        1. Corneli
          Corneli 1 July 2013 03: 14 New
          +2
          Quote: Avenger711
          Zero is zero, regardless of area.

          Hmm ... as I understand you about Ukraine? Well so if we "zero" do not worry)
  • Alexander Romanov
    Alexander Romanov 1 July 2013 05: 03 New
    +2
    Quote: Kars

    When will there be an article on how much Russia has reduced weapons inherited from the USSR, while laying claim to the pole of geopolitical power

    Russia does not claim geopolitical power, Russia is such !!!
    1. Kars
      Kars 1 July 2013 09: 36 New
      +1
      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      Russia does not claim geopolitical power, Russia is such !!!

      And? From this, the Russian Federation did not reduce and did not saw what it inherited from the USSR? And even now you just pretend otherwise S. Obkhazia has been recognized by more countries, like Kosovo.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 2 July 2013 05: 02 New
        +1
        Quote: Kars
        And even now you only pretend otherwise S. Obkhazia was recognized by more countries, like Kosovo.

        Kosovo is recognized under US pressure and you are well aware of this. It is enough that Russia itself recognized Ossetia and Abkhazia, so that all of NATO shut up with the United States.
        1. Kars
          Kars 2 July 2013 11: 46 New
          +2
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Kosovo is recognized under US pressure and you know it well

          Well, I’m talking about something, but no one recognizes Ossetia. That means the Russian Federation can not exert pressure and therefore is not something that someone is spreading about here.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Airman
    Airman 30 June 2013 17: 02 New
    +2
    Quote: MIKHAN
    Ah brothers Ukrainians all share swear to the joy of our enemies .. And what have come .. ???


    If only a contract army, then from whom to recruit contractors? ALL DO NOT SERVE! For preparatory courses? 30-40% is eliminated due to unsuitability.
    1. Thunderbolt
      Thunderbolt 30 June 2013 20: 03 New
      +2
      The Union republics abandoned assets abroad and nuclear weapons. For this, Russia took all the debt ($ 96,6 billion, by the way), provided security guarantees and retained a place in the Security Council. Why raise this issue now? If you already went then on the zero option, that's all. The train left.
    2. Corneli
      Corneli 1 July 2013 20: 03 New
      -2
      Quote: Povshnik
      If only a contract army, then from whom to recruit contractors? ALL DO NOT SERVE! For preparatory courses?

      And in the Ministry of Internal Affairs, how are they gaining?) Those same faculty members) Yes, and in other countries where there is no appeal, how do they manage to recruit contract soldiers into the army ..
      P.S. In the RFP 3000+ hryvnias, for the ordinary, there are a lot of people who want to find (this is the RFP of the same ordinary Ministry of Internal Affairs, actually the average in Ukraine)
      1. I am a Russian
        I am a Russian 6 July 2013 17: 51 New
        0
        Quote: Corneli
        P.S. In the RFP 3000+ hryvnias, for the ordinary, there are a lot of people who want to find (this is the RFP of the same ordinary Ministry of Internal Affairs, actually the average in Ukraine)


        and still not promoted?
        1. Akim
          Akim 7 July 2013 05: 56 New
          0
          Quote: I am a Russian
          and still not promoted?

          Increase your average salary - prices will rise and low-income people will starve. This is the economy of capitalism.
  • Bokdan1700
    Bokdan1700 30 June 2013 06: 35 New
    10
    The West first divided, now it is destroying the Great Power in parts and, first of all, the fighting potential. If countries like Russia and Azerbaijan can still afford to maintain a more or less combat-ready army, others are practically nonexistent. The only exception (as always) is Belarus, but it is a reserve (in a good sense) of the Great Power once.
    1. Canep
      Canep 30 June 2013 08: 20 New
      +8
      In Kazakhstan, the army is quite combat-ready, which could not be said about in the 90s (he himself served as an officer in 95-97).
      1. Kashchei
        Kashchei 30 June 2013 09: 51 New
        +6
        Of course, battle-worthy And against kigiz, Tajiks, Turkmen will stand ... With the Uzbeks it’s more difficult, not to mention the Chinese
        1. Semen Semyonitch
          Semen Semyonitch 30 June 2013 20: 23 New
          +1
          Quote: Kaschey
          Of course, battle-worthy And against kigiz, Tajiks, Turkmen will stand ... With the Uzbeks it’s more difficult, not to mention the Chinese

          Here you are, my dear man, have bent. The states will not risk contacting China already ...
          1. Avenger711
            Avenger711 30 June 2013 21: 07 New
            -1
            States are likely to pile China. While they have an advantage in forces, plus allies.
            1. Corneli
              Corneli 1 July 2013 03: 25 New
              -1
              Quote: Avenger711
              States are likely to pile China. While they have an advantage in forces, plus allies.

              If we talk about a purely military confrontation, then without "most likely" they will simply pile on everything, otherwise China would have long ago grabbed the same Taiwan and other "disputed" territories. Actually, only Russia, with nuclear weapons, can the United States resist! Because it’s not the point, who will kill someone soon enough, the main thing is that with a nuclear strike by Russia (preemptive or retaliatory), the United States will no longer be a state.
          2. Kasym
            Kasym 30 June 2013 21: 47 New
            +2
            Semyon Semyonitch, good evening! Kashchei most likely had a prominent feature of the kaz.-kit. borders. The mountains . There are 3 passes where more or less equipment will pass. The most dangerous are the Dzhungar gates. So if you block these places, which is real in the conditions of the mountains, then you can defend for quite some time. In other places it is rather hard to pass, even impossible - mountains up to 7 meters. Sincerely. hi
      2. Airman
        Airman 30 June 2013 17: 29 New
        0
        Quote: Canep
        In Kazakhstan, the army is quite combat-ready, which could not be said about in the 90s (he himself served as an officer in 95-97).


        By chance, not a graduate of KazGU?
  • waisson
    waisson 30 June 2013 06: 36 New
    0
    what is the problem that the newcomers to Chermet take on arms they can that they won’t be able to buy the proceeds, and the fact that the staff is bad and in the mid 90 we had such a problem got out and they think the country got out big resources
    1. Denis
      Denis 30 June 2013 08: 44 New
      +6
      Quote: waisson
      what is the problem
      And the truth is, what problems !?
      If only one small, where to get the money ???
      1. domokl
        domokl 30 June 2013 10: 16 New
        -1
        Quote: Denis
        If only one small, where to get the money ???

        With the scientific and technical potential of Ukraine, it can very well solve this problem only by exporting its new developments. The same AN ​​can transport vehicles as seeds and take them.
        1. Avenger711
          Avenger711 30 June 2013 16: 32 New
          +2
          Well then does not trade? He doesn’t want money?
          1. Airman
            Airman 30 June 2013 17: 22 New
            0
            Quote: Avenger711
            Well then does not trade? He doesn’t want money?


            No one but the Chinese is buying. So, instead of Russia, the Chinas decided to purchase IL-78 (refueling machines) from Ukraine, and they were almost decommissioned. I am glad for the Ukrainians that at least in this Chinese people were fooled. Helped Russia, refueling will be short-lived.
            1. aviamed90
              aviamed90 30 June 2013 20: 19 New
              0
              Pvoshnik-u

              "to buy IL-78 (tankers) from Ukraine, and those almost decommissioned. I am glad for the Ukrainians that at least the Chinese were cheated on this. They helped Russia, refueling will be short-lived."

              What are you talking about?
            2. Corneli
              Corneli 1 July 2013 03: 30 New
              0
              Quote: Povshnik
              No one but the Chinese is buying. So, instead of Russia, the Chinas decided to purchase IL-78 (refueling machines) from Ukraine, and they were almost decommissioned. I am glad for the Ukrainians that at least in this Chinese people were fooled. Helped Russia, refueling will be short-lived.

              It’s a pity to upset you, but if China wants to (more precisely, it is impossible to upgrade these aircraft on its own), Ukraine will be able to modify and remake them ... There is another question.
        2. Denis
          Denis 30 June 2013 18: 22 New
          +3
          Quote: domokl
          The same AN ​​transport can trade as seeds and will be taken.
          Who will take it?
          Various lockhids, Boeings, etc., will be crushed by certification as before.
          1. Corneli
            Corneli 1 July 2013 03: 32 New
            +1
            Quote: Denis
            Who will take it?
            Various lockhids, Boeings, etc., will be crushed by certification as before.

            Not in the eyebrow, but in the eye! (Plus you ((((
            P.S. It is enough to read about the results of the last “Bourges” (((
    2. Captain Vrungel
      Captain Vrungel 30 June 2013 09: 02 New
      21
      In Ukraine, one problem. IN ORU U T. They steal from the very top and a little, a little lower. In our country, the mafia did not crawl from bottom to top, but quickly rushed from top to bottom, crushing the floor of all sorts of “criminals” of the local spill. Having divided Ukraine according to its “concepts," the newly-minted oligarchs set one goal: to deflate as much as possible today, to get abroad a purebred, without any taxes (for myself, everything is by its own concepts, for the rest it is a law and a tight tax stranglehold). So that social, healthcare, education and the army hung on the neck of the common people. The authorities are insolent and snatched an appetizing chunk from the budget for the maintenance of the repressive apparatus for the people represented by the Ministry of Internal Affairs (explosives are four times the size of the armed forces), the SBU, its prosecutor's office, and pocket courts.
      Everything is built for one purpose. Pick up and wash off in time.
      Why Yanukovych and his "family", like crucians in a pan, rushing between the CU and the EU.
      They are looking for guarantees of their safety. They understand that Russia, represented by Putin, will not open a wide embrace, but the probability of returning to their homeland in handcuffs is great.
      The EU (where capital, real estate is mainly stored, children study, wives cure and they like to be treated and relax) always warmly accepted who brought huge capital to their banks and guaranteed complete security. There are more than enough examples.
      Yanukovych said that he wants to make his son richer than Akhmetov. This suggests that his son, Sasha, a dentist, completely controls dad in the presidency. And Sasha has far-reaching plans to the west, from Ukraine.
      So, the idea of ​​Ukraine’s participation in the CU at this stage is utopia. Just in case, Yanukovych flounders in the subject of the vehicle. But the "blue dream" guarantees personal security for themselves and the "family" in the EU. Time will tell. The Ukrainian authorities have other strategic tasks, and we, the Army! Army! To hell with the army? Extra gambel.
      1. Akim
        Akim 30 June 2013 09: 12 New
        +6
        Quote: Captain Vrungel
        In Ukraine, one problem. IN ORU U T. They steal from the very top and a little, a little lower.

        Yu, ra, and you tell me where they do not steal ?. The neighbors ?. In the Czech Republic, a scandal, in Poland, in Romania. I don’t even stutter about Russia. Maybe there is some kind of confrontation? Even in China they steal, under pain of execution, and much more.
        1. Captain Vrungel
          Captain Vrungel 30 June 2013 10: 14 New
          +8
          Yes, Kim, they’re stealing. Even in our sunny Odessa. And insolent. Coast. MAFs. Insolent construction. Here imperceptibly and the city-forming enterprise Odessa port, has become neither state nor Odessa. From the port, only the port control building remained and ... all however. The rest is property of persons of non-Odessa nationality from the Donetsk region. You paid attention to the Odessa cycle of thieves in the nap. City Hall, court or dismissal for theft and extortion. The appointment of new. Court or dismissal for theft and bribes. The return of the old. And in what circle go? True, some are taken to Kiev by presidential advisers.
          If you grew up in the old Odessa courtyard, families 10-15, then remember that half of the yard did not close their apartments. Now, double security doors are not a barrier.
          Now, when the government ceases to steal, and the police protect and steal, the time and desire may appear for both of them to fight theft. But these definitely will not. And subsequent ones too. They sleep and see themselves in these places.
          1. Akim
            Akim 30 June 2013 10: 31 New
            +5
            Quote: Captain Vrungel
            If you grew up in the old Odessa courtyard, families 10-15, then remember that half of the yard did not close their apartments. Now, double security doors are not a barrier.

            You will not return the old. Remember how in “Guests from the Future” Mila to the Pirates: They dare not shoot. In the end, we are in Moscow, in the 20th century. "Words are perceived with nostalgia and slight irony.
          2. Kortik
            Kortik 30 June 2013 15: 04 New
            +2
            Yuri, a fellow countryman, not only the Odessa port was slammed. State Fund he plans to put up the property for sale at the end of this year, a refinery, and it has strategic importance, and in the event of ammonia leakage, not only Odessa, but also neighboring regions and Moldova simply will not.
        2. Anper
          Anper 30 June 2013 10: 27 New
          +6
          "The crime rate in the state is determined not by the number of thieves, but by the state’s ability to neutralize them." The question is different: does the state want to neutralize thieves?
          1. Naval
            Naval 30 June 2013 16: 36 New
            -1
            Bravo, great quote. ++++++
        3. Avenger711
          Avenger711 30 June 2013 13: 30 New
          +3
          In Russia, they not only steal, but also work.
          1. Airman
            Airman 30 June 2013 17: 27 New
            +3
            Quote: Avenger711
            In Russia, they not only steal, but also work.


            Some work so that others can steal more!
            1. Avenger711
              Avenger711 30 June 2013 21: 13 New
              0
              This is a side effect, the biggest thefts can only be where the biggest money is.
        4. vitamin
          vitamin ky 30 June 2013 17: 47 New
          +2
          I will say this - they steal everywhere - this is an axiom or 4 unrecognized Newton's law laughing (joke) -but we steal the coolest of all-despite the fact that the budget is very modest no -Yes, and actually there is no way to blame other countries - all the more to cite them as an example-this is not a reproach, so the statement of what has been said hi
      2. Avenger711
        Avenger711 30 June 2013 13: 29 New
        0
        No, the problem is that they ONLY steal, and in the Russian Federation, although they steal, they also do the job.
      3. Sergey_K
        Sergey_K 30 June 2013 14: 37 New
        +3
        Oh and the guys are stealing.
        There was a moment when Yusch came to power, in the wake of support, he strongly pressed the thief. But then nepotism of small town + plus a strange policy of hostility towards Russia began.
        How Yanyk came to power ... What started the guys. You have no idea. Are they stealing from us? That is not, we have to elicit honesty itself when compared. And most importantly, they do not steal in a civilized manner through commissions and kickbacks, but simply pull, as for the last time, as in front of a large skheher.
        Ukraine is afloat thanks to business. More precisely, that part of it that is alive despite the bandits in power. This is its great difference from Russia.

        PS
        Articles about Ukraine are tired. Great country and great story. My greetings to all Ukrainians and good luck to you guys. I also go to Odessa region to have a rest and in a coffin I saw Turkey, Spain, etc.
        PPP
        My respect is to Kars personally. There was also a SuperDuck user who was also special in technical equipment, unfortunately could not stand the local specifics.
      4. nickname 1 and 2
        nickname 1 and 2 30 June 2013 17: 21 New
        -1
        In Ukraine, one problem. IN ORU U T.


        Here! And this is a sign of Russianness. So you Russified.

        "So what's the matter? GONE?"
    3. Airman
      Airman 30 June 2013 13: 01 New
      +4
      Quote: waisson
      what is the problem that the newcomers to Chermet take on arms they can that they won’t be able to buy the proceeds, and the fact that the staff is bad and in the mid 90 we had such a problem got out and they think the country got out big resources


      We ourselves haven’t worked out the cadres yet, for 3 years there was no admission to military schools, with field technicians most of the literate, honest, military officers were fired or they were fired, fittlers and ass-ass were sitting in the highest echelons of the Armed Forces, and I'm not sure that everyone they left the sun.
  • valokordin
    valokordin 30 June 2013 06: 40 New
    +4
    In fact, there is no Ukrainian army, and those servicemen are only fit to fight with Bandera and it is doubtful, but if the army goes to serve as contract soldiers of the Westerners, they will gradually become partisans at home (God forbid)
    1. MG42
      MG42 30 June 2013 12: 05 New
      +2
      Quote: valokordin
      In fact, the Ukrainian army is not

      there is, but a <modest> and modest budget ..
      Quote: valokordin
      but if the army goes to serve as contract soldiers zapadentsi

      Go do not hesitate ..
      The number of personnel of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is planned to be reduced from 180 thousand to 122 thousand by the end of 2017, said Minister of Defense of Ukraine Pavel Lebedev.
      He recalled that 2013 is the last year when there will be conscription for military service, and from 2014 a full transition to the contract army will take place.
      “That is, the spring draft of 2014 for military service will no longer be. But a lot of young people want to serve, planning their future career in the police and other law enforcement agencies. We are meeting them: we will provide the opportunity for voluntary service as reservists or participants in training programs for reserve soldiers. A draft amendment to the law on military service is currently being worked out, ”the minister said.
      Lebedev also spoke of the purpose of awarding prizes to combat training excellence students.
      “When a soldier becomes the first, he will be encouraged not only morally but also financially. The selection criteria for the point system are military, physical, humanitarian training, ”he said. The amount of the incentive is from 75% to 100% of the salary, the minister added.
      Also, according to him, the salaries of employees are increasing. So, since May of this year, the commander of the Armed Forces ground forces brigade receives about 4900 UAH, and from October the salary will increase to 5700 UAH; the battalion commander, respectively, receives more than 4200 UAH, and will be - about 5000 UAH; the company commander receives more than 3800 UAH, his salary will increase to 4500 UAH. In addition, Lebedev emphasized that in 2017 he saw the Ukrainian army "capable of repelling the aggression of the enemy and defending the borders of Ukraine."
      Earlier it was reported that the nutrition of the Ukrainian army in 2013 will cost the state budget of 424 million UAH.
  • Suhov
    Suhov 30 June 2013 06: 44 New
    16
    The Ukrainian army still wears the old Soviet uniform,
    which is now hopelessly great
    but also
    already a lot of the way and "went out of fashion."
    1. NSG42
      NSG42 30 June 2013 08: 05 New
      +2
      To each his own !
    2. waisson
      waisson 30 June 2013 08: 26 New
      +6
      if you are about the uniform, so for me let the old Soviet uniform than x..r know what from Yudashkin, well, if you are talking about everything, then again everything is in their hands not to impose on us what kind of army they should have what to go-ride-fly
    3. Airman
      Airman 30 June 2013 17: 51 New
      +2
      Quote: Sukhov
      The Ukrainian army still wears the old Soviet uniform,
      which is now hopelessly great
      but also
      already a lot of the way and "went out of fashion."


      Sukhov, I respect you, but don’t do so about Ukrainians. I have served with many in different parts of the USSR, and not only that, and you know, they have never failed, it’s a pity that we live in different states.
      1. Suhov
        Suhov 1 July 2013 18: 40 New
        0
        Quote: Povshnik
        do not be so about Ukrainians

        All that I said is reproach to the leadership of Ukrainerather than gloating against its citizens.
        The latter is excluded, if only because my family has everything:
        and Russians, and Ukrainians, and Belarusians, and even a "lawyer."
        laughing
        And this list is incomplete!
        wassat
        So, as for me, the division of the Slavs is a very conditional thing, and to some extent even “harmful”.
        Itself "suffered" upon receipt of a passport when filling in the column nationality.
        For the father - one thing turns out, for the mother - another.
        The problem was solved by an employee of the passport department.
        Collaborator: "Where was you born?"
        Me: "Here in Russia."
        She: "So - Russian!"
        hi
  • Alexander Romanov
    Alexander Romanov 30 June 2013 06: 45 New
    26
    The author of the article talks about the transferred Tu 160, but as far as I remember most of them were cut with American money. The remaining and transferred to Russia, well, as transferred ... in payment of gas.
    1. smel
      smel 30 June 2013 08: 56 New
      +1
      They sawed what turned into scrap metal, and transferred the remaining normal ones. Let it be for the debts, but it was transferred. It’s good that at least we caught on time, and even we would not have a single regiment. And so at least something can be demonstrated
      1. Zlodeey
        Zlodeey 30 June 2013 13: 47 New
        +2
        Quote: smel
        They sawed what turned into scrap metal, and transferred the remaining normal ones.

        You are mistaken, good planes drank in the same way, and even at that time their wear was not really small to be scrap metal.
        Years of production 1984-2008.
        1. Corneli
          Corneli 1 July 2013 03: 42 New
          0
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          the author of the article talks about the transferred Tu 160, but as far as I remember most of them were cut with American money. The remaining and transferred to Russia, well, as transferred ... in payment of gas.
          belay
          Quote: smel
          They sawed what turned into scrap metal, and transferred the remaining normal ones. Let it be for the debts, but it was transferred. It’s good that at least we caught on time, and even we would not have a single regiment. And so at least something can be demonstrated
          belay belay
          Quote: ZloDeey
          You are mistaken, good planes drank in the same way, and even at that time their wear was not really small to be scrap metal.
          Years of production 1984-2008.

          belay belay belay
          Well, and finally:
          Quote: Povshnik
          As far as I know, they were surpassed by pilots who refused to serve in the Ukrainian Air Force. And only then they "agreed" on this.
          belay belay belay wassat
          Excuse me ... from that story: "the farther into the forest, the thicker the partisans!" EPC, 20 years have passed! and what fairy-tales have already been invented (and it’s like contemporaries, adults!) !!! And will he still be in the next 20 years ?!
          1. Zlodeey
            Zlodeey 2 July 2013 14: 51 New
            0
            EPC, 20 years have passed! and what fairy-tales have already been invented (and this is like contemporaries, adults!) !!! And will he still be in the next 20 years ?!

            I do not understand what is fabulous in my answer?
      2. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 1 July 2013 05: 18 New
        +1
        Quote: smel
        They sawed what turned into scrap metal, and transferred the remaining normal ones.

        Yeah, new planes that just got into service. You can search in the internet what kind of scrap it was.
    2. Airman
      Airman 30 June 2013 17: 38 New
      +3
      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      The author of the article talks about the transferred Tu 160, but as far as I remember most of them were cut with American money. The remaining and transferred to Russia, well, as transferred ... in payment of gas.


      As far as I know, they were surpassed by pilots who refused to serve in the Ukrainian Air Force. And only then they "agreed" on this.
      1. aviamed90
        aviamed90 30 June 2013 17: 42 New
        +1
        Pvoshnik-u

        You are incorrectly informed.

        These Tu-160s were preparing for the distillation of aircraft, and pilots from the 121th Guards Heavy Bomber Aviation Sevastopol Red Banner Regiment (air. Engels-2) were distilled. And before it - from 1095 tbap (from there).

        And it is difficult to say which of the pilots transferred there from Ukraine.
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 30 June 2013 07: 10 New
    10
    In the "former" allied armies now, it’s purely for the parade .. Do not be offended by the guys, but this is how it is. In the Soviet Union, this was power! And stability on the whole planet .. (now bearded and gay people set the conditions for the world ..) sadness ..
    1. Avenger711
      Avenger711 30 June 2013 13: 33 New
      0
      And in Tajikistan, in general, our units could become occupational.
  • Zomanus
    Zomanus 30 June 2013 07: 11 New
    10
    Fine. They are going to integrate into Europe, therefore they have no one to defend themselves with. And then you look, and the airdromes for the bombing of the Russian Federation will provide the "democrats" for the rich tranches. It must be clearly understood that people are not a state. People can remain silent ...
    1. Airman
      Airman 30 June 2013 17: 43 New
      0
      Quote: Zomanus
      Fine. They are going to integrate into Europe, therefore they have no one to defend themselves with. And then you look, and the airdromes for the bombing of the Russian Federation will provide the "democrats" for the rich tranches. It must be clearly understood that people are not a state. People can remain silent ...


      And maybe even speak, it all depends on the situation.
  • does it
    does it 30 June 2013 07: 45 New
    +4
    In addition, the sale of weapons stocks almost immediately began - for example, according to the most minimal estimates, up to 500 combat aircraft and helicopters, up to 1000 tanks and 1000 combat vehicles were sold. As a result, for example, at the moment in the Ukrainian Armed Forces there are 208 (there were 1100) combat aircraft and about 700 tanks (there were 5500).
    So the shots from the film "The Arms Baron" pop up before our eyes
  • seller trucks
    seller trucks 30 June 2013 07: 53 New
    23


    "But Shaw is not winter, then I am biting!"
    1. does it
      does it 30 June 2013 08: 02 New
      +4
      Quote: seller trucks
      "But Shaw is not winter, then I am biting!"

      This is how much technology one word in vain disappears in vain.
      1. svp67
        svp67 30 June 2013 10: 00 New
        0
        Quote: kvirit
        This is how much technology one word in vain disappears in vain.
        This equipment has already arrived at the plant in a state - requiring repair, so its combat value is very, very relative ...
      2. MG42
        MG42 30 June 2013 11: 43 New
        +5
        Quote: kvirit
        This is how much technology one word in vain disappears in vain.

        Everything that could be sold and taken out was already taken off ... they’ll cut the matter of time and remelt
    2. svp67
      svp67 30 June 2013 09: 59 New
      +5
      Quote: seller trucks
      "But Shaw is not winter, then I am biting!"
      It’s stupid, AT ANY tank repair plant, the tanks that came from the troops are stored this way for repair, it would be tragic if the tanks were stored at storage bases that way, and this is common, Russian factories have the same picture ...
      1. seller trucks
        seller trucks 30 June 2013 10: 03 New
        +2
        Rebaza in Kiev
        1. svp67
          svp67 30 June 2013 10: 09 New
          +5
          Quote: seller trucks
          Rebaza in Kiev

          It is NORMAL for such factories, the equipment came to be repaired, it is no longer listed as combat ... Do you have photographs, for example, of the Ussuri tank repair plant?
          1. seller trucks
            seller trucks 30 June 2013 10: 23 New
            +1
            Quote: svp67
            This is normal



            This not normal
            1. svp67
              svp67 30 June 2013 11: 29 New
              +5
              Quote: seller trucks
              This not normal

              This was not normal when an order of 200 units of armored vehicles wintered in the forest near Elanskiy station. Notice the battlegroup tanks


              And on your photo T64 and nothing more, where does this picture come from, what is it talking about? As far as I remember, the residents of the villages of Bashkirovka and Korobochkino near Kharkov can still do more of them, there are a lot of decommissioned equipment at the landfills, since Soviet times, as targets and targets
            2. svp67
              svp67 30 June 2013 11: 43 New
              +1
              Quote: seller trucks
              This not normal

              Agree






          2. seller trucks
            seller trucks 30 June 2013 10: 35 New
            +2
            Complex of long-distance space communications "Pluto".

            this is normal?
            1. svp67
              svp67 30 June 2013 11: 40 New
              0
              Quote: seller trucks
              this is normal?

              This ABNORMAL takes its roots from the Bialowieza Accords ... So after that all this became vital ... In the 20 and the beginning of the 30 in the USSR it was also not fun.
    3. MG42
      MG42 30 June 2013 11: 38 New
      +2
      Quote: seller trucks
      "But Shaw is not winter, then I am biting!"

      State Enterprise << Kharkov Armored Repair Plant >>
      Here is the site of the plant, where it seems like they were repairing tanks. By moving through the fence you can see a bunch of whole and not so tanks and other tracked military units. From T34 to T72
      I was not at this plant, I was at Malyshev 5 years ago, there are abandoned workshops there and some "non-core" assets were leased to other structures ..
      At the bazaars, you can buy something from tanks if you wish, some who boasted of a tank helmet, I have NVD from a tank and there is a tank helmet too ..
      1. svp67
        svp67 30 June 2013 11: 55 New
        +3
        Quote: MG42
        I have a night vision tank and a tank helmet too ..
        NVD was used on wheeled vehicles, TVNs were installed on tanks ...
        1. MG42
          MG42 30 June 2013 12: 13 New
          +2
          Do you want to buy Serge?
          Designed to ensure the driving of objects of armored vehicles (tanks of the T-62, T-64, T-72, T-80, T-84, landing BMP-1, BMP-2, BMP-3, etc.) at night, as in in conditions of natural light up to 5x10-3 lux (in passive mode), and when illuminated by a headlamp closed by an infrared filter (in active mode), in conditions of natural light below 5x10-3 lux.
          Night observation devices for drivers of armored vehicles, such as TVN, TVNE.
    4. regsSSSR
      regsSSSR 30 June 2013 15: 48 New
      +1
      MDA impresses! it was probably lost in technology and there are those very remaining 700 Ukrainian tanks mentioned in the article))? ETOGES is a whole klundike of iron ore deposits who wrote that there are no minerals in Ukraine, here you are, please, yes, there is enough iron for tens of years !! here it isn’t so that at least part of this assad would be sent, it would be there even more needed in that form, then they would definitely be repaired! all the same, everything rots in vain !!
      1. Kars
        Kars 30 June 2013 15: 54 New
        +5
        Quote: regressSSSR
        and there are those very remaining 700 Ukrainian tanks mentioned in the article))?

        Those more than two thousand.
        Quote: regressSSSR
        etozh whole klandaike deposits of iron ore who wrote there that in Ukraine there are no minerals here you please
        What, what, and iron ore in Ukraine is and so. Kryvyi Rih basin.
        Quote: regressSSSR
        at least part of this will send it then it will be more necessary even in this form, then they will definitely be repaired, you can doubt it !! all the same, everything rots in vain !!

        Yes, what's the problem? Let them pay money and look for a legal delivery method. And we will repair it ourselves, for Ethiopia we do it)))
    5. nickname 1 and 2
      nickname 1 and 2 30 June 2013 17: 37 New
      0
      Quote: seller trucks
      "But Shaw is not winter, then I am biting!"


      How are people working there? What kind of heart will stand watching all this IT every day?

      They probably drink, how not to drink?
  • seller trucks
    seller trucks 30 June 2013 07: 58 New
    +8


    Center flight training them. Pokryshkina

    Zaporizhia (Ukraine), the airport Shirok.
    1. Canep
      Canep 30 June 2013 08: 27 New
      +8
      It seems that the Chernobyl Zone has spread throughout Ukraine.
      1. Orik
        Orik 30 June 2013 11: 24 New
        10
        The Chernobyl zone spread to the whole USSR!
      2. MG42
        MG42 30 June 2013 14: 10 New
        +5
        Quote: Canep
        It seems that the Chernobyl Zone has spread throughout Ukraine.

        Well, the metal from there certainly spread and not only to Ukraine ..
      3. Botanologist
        Botanologist 30 June 2013 19: 54 New
        +1
        Quote: Canep
        It seems that the Chernobyl Zone has spread throughout Ukraine.


        Do we have few abandoned airfields? Taburetkin also closed enough.
    2. does it
      does it 30 June 2013 09: 35 New
      +2
      Quote: seller trucks
      Center flight training them. PokryshkinaZaporizhia (Ukraine), the airport Shirok.

      We would have all this for a long time taken away for scrap.
    3. desiscia
      desiscia 1 July 2013 13: 41 New
      +2
      And uvas 22 tichyachi tanks in the garages are warm and polished.
  • Smersh
    Smersh 30 June 2013 08: 01 New
    0
    join us and you will be happy
    1. omsbon
      omsbon 30 June 2013 08: 43 New
      +2
      Quote: Smersh
      join us and you will be happy

      The trouble is that there will be no happiness. It is unlikely that Russia will now be able to pull Ukraine out of the swamp, it takes time and a lot of money.
      1. teodorh
        teodorh 30 June 2013 15: 22 New
        -10
        Russia itself is in a swamp.
      2. nickname 1 and 2
        nickname 1 and 2 30 June 2013 18: 12 New
        +1
        Quote: omsbon
        Quote: Smersh
        join us and you will be happy

        The trouble is that there will be no happiness. It is unlikely that Russia will now be able to pull Ukraine out of the swamp, it takes time and a lot of money.


        Correctly! Let Ukraine become one BIG EURO Dump! But - EURO!

        This is not something! Europe and Russia are separated by a landfill!
        The UN is concerned! How unsanitary! Money will be thrown for elimination. Maybe this is the salvation?
    2. vostok1982
      vostok1982 30 June 2013 15: 51 New
      +7
      So Yanukovych was chosen because he promised to make Russian the official language and enter the Customs Union. And what is the result? Until Ukraine falls apart, there is nothing to dream of reuniting with the rest of Russia.
      1. Kars
        Kars 30 June 2013 15: 59 New
        +1
        Quote: vostok1982
        make Russian the official language and enter the TS. And what is the result?

        Well, I made it regional. And I don’t remember something that before the presidential election there was already a Customs Union
  • borisjdin1957
    borisjdin1957 30 June 2013 08: 13 New
    +4
    from Don
    With such reforms, rumunesti and psheks, they will begin to bite Ukraine with impunity. God forbid !!
  • seller trucks
    seller trucks 30 June 2013 08: 25 New
    +4
    Abandoned airfield in Crimea

    http://rushor.com/rubriks/arsenal/zabroshennyj-aerodrom.html
    1. Akim
      Akim 30 June 2013 08: 54 New
      -6
      Quote: seller trucks
      http://rushor.com/rubriks/arsenal/zabroshennyj-aerodrom.html

      The main part of the article’s affair is to throw it out loud with words, but everything else
      On these planes should learn new Ukrainian pilots, but alas. No airplanes, no pilots.

      Tea, on the "Dolphins" fly everywhere. And he didn’t notice the fact that the cars were standing and they were not pulled into bolts.
      Tired of this policy of arrogance. Both countries stand in ..., only one on their ears, the other a little chin stuck out, but still it is necessary to neigh over the neighbor. Or do you lack such kindness? I just don’t want to go down to the level of search for poop.
      1. seller trucks
        seller trucks 30 June 2013 09: 04 New
        0
        Quote: Akim
        Both countries stand in ..., only one on their ears, the other a little chin stuck out, but still it is necessary to neigh over the neighbor.



        to you stupid Ukrainians, the Yeltsin’s struggle was still saying, “Take as much sovereignty as you can swallow”;
        1. Akim
          Akim 30 June 2013 09: 17 New
          -2
          Quote: seller trucks
          you stupid Ukrainians still fight Yeltsin said "Take as much sovereignty as you can swallow"

          That there Yeltsin blurted out violet to me. Peace be upon him. But you can see that you are a very smart and great economist and political scientist who has watched TV, just teach everyone. "Muscovite deep-fried."
          1. Kars
            Kars 30 June 2013 09: 21 New
            +8
            Quote: seller trucks
            you stupid Ukrainians still fight Yeltsin said "Take as much sovereignty as you can swallow"


            He told the Chechens
            1. cherkas.oe
              cherkas.oe 30 June 2013 23: 55 New
              0
              Quote: Kars
              He told the Chechens

              To Shaimiev he said that.
          2. seller trucks
            seller trucks 30 June 2013 09: 26 New
            10
            Quote: Akim
            That there Yeltsin blurted out violet to me. Peace be upon him. But you can see that you are a very smart and great economist and political scientist who has watched TV, just teach everyone. "Muscovite deep-fried."


            I'm afraid to disappoint you, I am a Crimean living in the Network and the only thing I watch is the reality show "Ukraine", already like 22 of the year
            1. Akim
              Akim 30 June 2013 10: 27 New
              +1
              Quote: seller trucks
              I'm afraid to disappoint you, I am a Crimean living in the Network

              I did not say a word about either nationality or citizenship. My father says the same words. For 20 years, I just realized that I bought a new car (not Russian) by selling my old Ford. The same words. It’s always easier to scold But in general it’s good everywhere where we are not.
              As for the L-29. Let's use the 412 in driving schools. Many of them in the courtyards also rust.
              1. seller trucks
                seller trucks 30 June 2013 10: 43 New
                +7
                Quote: Akim
                As for the L-29. Let's use the 412 in driving schools. Many of them in the courtyards also rust.


                Ukrainian authorities for the Air Force or the Navy made a lot of purchases of new equipment?
                1. seller trucks
                  seller trucks 30 June 2013 11: 08 New
                  +1
                  Threat. Until 2025, the Ukrainian Air Force of the Armed Forces of Ukraine does not plan to buy military aircraft in Russia.

                  http://www.wing.com.ua/content/view/5890/36/

                  "Until 2017, we plan to purchase a corvette, two An-70 aircraft, and up to 10 armored boats" - Minister

                  partner-inform.de ›news / detail / 15 / 7109
                  1. Akim
                    Akim 30 June 2013 11: 20 New
                    +1
                    Quote: seller trucks
                    "Until 2017, we plan to purchase a corvette, two An-70 aircraft, and up to 10 armored boats" - Minister

                    These are large purchases. True, Sapsan was on that list before.
                    As for the planes - no new ones are needed. Ukraine can upgrade MiGs to level 4+ (there would be pennies).
                    1. seller trucks
                      seller trucks 30 June 2013 11: 37 New
                      +6
                      Quote: Akim
                      Ukraine can upgrade MiGs to the 4 + level (there would be pennies).



                      charmingly, the Ukrainian fake of the MiG sounds intimidating, but by the way, take the engine, the Klimovsk ones go there, maybe you’ve already developed your own? or, as usual, “donors” and used components, here’s another thing: if Ukraine becomes a member of NATO, then almost all Soviet technology will have to say goodbye
                      1. Akim
                        Akim 30 June 2013 11: 47 New
                        +3
                        Quote: seller trucks
                        Yes, by the way, and take the engine,

                        Engines sorted out overhaul. Ukraine can independently develop engines with a thrust of 7-8 tons, but this is not advisable. And components for MiGs and Su-25 have long been released. Since that year, they began to produce components for the Su-24,27.
                      2. seller trucks
                        seller trucks 30 June 2013 12: 07 New
                        +7
                        as Lebedev said in Ukraine there are 350 airplanes, though he didn’t specify how many “raids”, I assume that it’s good if a third.

                        secondly there is no one to fly on airplanes
                        According to the State Aviation Administration, 300 pilots from 1000 line pilots (those who operate passenger flights) are older than 55 years, they are about to retire. 200 - foreigners who can return home at any time. Most of the remaining 500 - learned to fly under the Union and have already crossed the 40-year frontier. The percentage of young and promising is negligible. The fact is that the only Ukrainian university that trains civil aviation pilots - the Kirovohrad Flight Academy of the National Aviation University - has trained theoreticians for 20 years - cadets simply do not have the opportunity to practice. Is it possible to talk about flight safety in such a situation? Airline chiefs, rector of the Kirovograd flight academy and the cadets themselves spoke about the sore "Today".


                        http://www.segodnya.ua/ukraine/v-ukraine-ckoro-konchatcja-piloty.html

                        Ukraine is not able to create an aircraft engine, you did not manage to come up with a car engine, but here you swung the aircraft

                        accessories for Su-24,27.


                        from this moment in more detail, preferably proof.
                      3. Akim
                        Akim 30 June 2013 12: 44 New
                        -2
                        Quote: seller trucks
                        Ukraine is not able to create an aircraft engine, you were unable to come up with a car engine,

                        I can also fend off about tank diesel engines or about KAMAZ, which is older than me. But why argue who spits higher? As for aircraft engines, the Chinese allowed to bring to mind the WS-10 in Zaporozhye. And they were back in 2011, and the Turks that year were offered to jointly develop a 5th generation engine. So they can.
                        As for spare parts for Dryers. And why do you think they refused to barter for NITK? And this year, for the first time, several SU-24 also left for overhaul.
                      4. seller trucks
                        seller trucks 30 June 2013 13: 12 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Akim
                        I can also parry about tank diesel engines or about KAMAZ,


                        YaMZ developed and mass-produced engines of the 530 series, E-4, which are installed on MAZ and KRAZ vehicles, as well as military equipment assembled in Kamaz, including "Typhoon". By the way, he’s a millionaire by resource

                        As for aircraft engines, the Chinese allowed to bring to mind the WS-10 in Zaporozhye.


                        yeah at the same time and the production line and the drawing passed

                        As for spare parts for Dryers. And why do you think they refused to barter for NITK? And this year, for the first time, several SU-24 also left for overhaul.


                        as I understand it all the same in Ukraine do not produce components?
                      5. Akim
                        Akim 30 June 2013 13: 46 New
                        -1
                        Quote: seller trucks
                        seller trucks

                        You don’t do amrsselling, because everyone is trying to pull "Like, are we better?" Why don’t you argue with America. For strongly "straightforward" I’ll try to expand a little. YaMZ 530 is a good engine, but nothing outstanding. It is, all the same, if I called MeMZ 301 a breakthrough What the whole world achieved in 80's, we only go to this resource.
                        Quote: seller trucks
                        yeah at the same time and the production line and the drawing passed


                        I said maybe. I did not say will produce. Even when the prospects for the production of the L-15 and J-10B in Odessa were discussed at Yushche, there was a conversation that Ukraine would put its components on fighters (including engines). Therefore, we did not agree.
                      6. seller trucks
                        seller trucks 30 June 2013 14: 14 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Akim
                        You don’t do amrsselling, because everyone is trying to pull "Like, are we better?" Why don’t you argue with America. For strongly "straightforward" I’ll try to expand a little. YaMZ 530 is a good engine, but nothing outstanding. It is, all the same, if I called MeMZ 301 a breakthrough What the whole world achieved in 80's, we only go to this resource.


                        we are the same, you have become worse than for the Americans, so they are not here on the forum, you are and they are not. did I say on the engine that the 530-th break? he is and thank God. and as for the Ukrainian light engineering, it is no longer there, however, like the freight one, it will soon be half a year.
                      7. Akim
                        Akim 30 June 2013 14: 27 New
                        -3
                        Quote: seller trucks
                        and as for the Ukrainian light engineering, it is no longer there, however, like the freight one, it will soon be half a year.

                        Truck, buses, trolleybuses sell well. As for the passenger cars, the factories are indeed in crisis because they were oriented to Russia, and after the introduction of the recycling fee, it was big F ...! But this has nothing to do with aviation.
                      8. seller trucks
                        seller trucks 30 June 2013 15: 09 New
                        +6
                        Quote: Akim
                        Truck, buses, trolleybuses sell well.


                        nonsense, dark times came for Kraz, Bogdan, LAZ: KRAZ which cannot make more than 1000 units a year, this year even assembled 600 machines, LAZ (no 2008 are imported into Russia) and Bogdan stopped the conveyor at the beginning of the year collection, in Russia they have become non-competitive, in Ukraine nobody needs them, as for trolley buses, I report that Ukraine uses car kits from Belarus and re-equips mainly with imported engines.
                      9. Akim
                        Akim 30 June 2013 15: 33 New
                        -4
                        Quote: seller trucks
                        as for trolleybuses, I report that Ukraine uses car kits from Belarus

                        Vitaly do not report nonsense to me:
                        Why plants have not bent. Yes, because it has long been reoriented to other markets. And if they are not sold in Russia, this does not mean a halt in their exports. At Bogdan, only the production of cars stopped. And he never used the Belarusian car kits. This is a factory in Chasov Yar, but this is a completely different song, it has nothing to do with it.
                        Do not think that the whole world is locked only on you:
                        http://www.laz.ua/ru/
                        http://www.autokraz.com.ua/rus/
                        http://bogdan.ua/ru/
                      10. seller trucks
                        seller trucks 30 June 2013 16: 11 New
                        +5
                        blessed is he who believes:

                        In January of this year the production of cars of all types fell (compared to the first month of 2012) not by interest, but "at times" - by 5,8 times.

                        In February, Ukraine produced 2919 vehicles, which was 55% less than in February 2012, the Ukravtoprom association said.

                        Thus, speaking formally, in February the situation improved slightly: in January less than 20% of the last year was produced, and in February - 45%.

                        And if we take January and February in total, then the enterprises of the Ukrainian automobile industry released the 3751 vehicle.

                        This is almost 70% less than the previous year.

                        One way or another, whether we take only January, or January-February, the conclusion is the same anyway. The situation cannot even be described as critical - it is too weak an expression. It is about the disaster of one of the most important industries
                        Ukraine, which has not so long ago pleased with its growth and increasing export supplies.


                        http://vybor.ua/article/economika/ukraina-teryaet-avtomobilnuyu-promyshlennost.h
                        tml
                      11. Akim
                        Akim 30 June 2013 16: 24 New
                        -2
                        Quote: seller trucks
                        http://vybor.ua/article/economika/ukraina-teryaet-avtomobilnuyu-promyshlennost.h

                        tml

                        Enough for me X ... bring !!! I gave you sites directly manufacturers. Read and analyze what, how much and where. Try to draw conclusions yourself, and not use other people's brains. Of course, 100 buses in total with 2000 passenger cars are a clear minus compared to the same period last year. And 50 buses and 100 are a clear plus. But you also want to see one negative.
                      12. seller trucks
                        seller trucks 30 June 2013 17: 15 New
                        +4
                        Quote: Akim
                        Enough for me X ... bring !!!


                        in this case, the sites of your manufacturers the same fence on which the above "X ...." is written, Kraz produced at least 2007 cars a year before 5000, now less than 1000, they wrote a magic pendal to LAZ and I hope it flew out of Russia forever , I add that LAZ exists from order to order, sometimes idle for several months, all Ukrainian auto plants exist due to sales in Russia.

                        According to the estimates of the information-analytical group AUTO-Consulting, if Ukrainian automakers completely lose competition in the Russian market, this will mean the loss of 340 — 350 million dollars and 90% of all export deliveries of automotive equipment. After all, over the 2011 year, they exported 40 190 units of motor vehicles to Russia totaling 344 million dollars. This will also mean a drop in production by 40% - 104 653 units were produced last year.
                        Due to the disposal collection, for example, older VAZ models that are not produced in Russia but assembled in Ukraine, are becoming slightly cheaper than new products. So, if VAZ-2111 Ukraine will sell in Russia under the name “Bogdan-2111” for 350 000 rubles, then the newer Russian modification LADA “Priora station wagon” will cost 361 000 rubles.


                        http://www.ukrrudprom.ua/digest/Utilizatsiya_ukrainskogo_avtoproma.html
                      13. Akim
                        Akim 30 June 2013 17: 38 New
                        0
                        Quote: seller trucks
                        in this case, the sites of your manufacturers the same fence on which the above "X ...." is written, Kraz produced at least 2007 cars a year until 5000, now it is less than 1000,

                        I can’t understand what are you trying to prove? All three enterprises completed that year with a profit. Yes, Russia is a great business partner and no one denies this. I, unlike you, do not oppose the country. But there are others. By the way, LAZ has the largest profit (though it’s paper).
                2. Avenger711
                  Avenger711 30 June 2013 16: 36 New
                  +2
                  KRAZ produces less than 1000 cars. => KRAZ DEAD.
                3. Akim
                  Akim 30 June 2013 17: 06 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Avenger711
                  => KRAZ DEAD.

                  Naturally, KrAZ is “dead”, so it continues to release new models.
                4. seller trucks
                  seller trucks 30 June 2013 17: 27 New
                  +3
                  Well, yes, I remember the cabover from the "new" Renault, to promise does not mean getting married
                5. Akim
                  Akim 1 July 2013 05: 56 New
                  +2
                  Quote: seller trucks
                  Renault, promising doesn't mean getting married


                  There is from Renault, the Orth of MANA, has its own - what the customer wants. KrAZ produces 256 varieties. You live on the web - look. My friend there works in one department. I could tell a lot if I could.
              2. Avenger711
                Avenger711 30 June 2013 21: 17 New
                0
                Yes, Ukrainian. The military-industrial complex also has new tanks and armored personnel carriers. And in a series of them or not, or minuscule for export.
        2. Avenger711
          Avenger711 30 June 2013 16: 36 New
          -1
          KRAZ has less production every year. KAMAZ, on the contrary, has more.
        3. Anper
          Anper 2 July 2013 12: 07 New
          +1
          Quote: seller trucks
          to trolleybuses, I report that Ukraine uses car kits from Belarus and re-equips mainly with imported engines

          Some sort of misinformation - Ukraine in provincial cities is not just using the machine kits of the pr-v of Belarus, but it is finishing off the Soviet legacy, “equipping” the case with paint and pulling the seats. A couple of Czech decommissioned trolley buses of newer releases were launched - that’s the whole modernization. This is first-hand information, i.e. from the author.
        4. Akim
          Akim 2 July 2013 20: 24 New
          0
          Quote: Anper
          and finishes the Soviet inheritance, "completing"

          It is clear that new trolleybuses and buses left for the cities of Euro and Odessa. Although a large number of bought Simferopol and Nikolaev. In general, we manufacture An148 / 158. Do they buy it from us inside? So it is here. They buy their cities in central Europe.
  • Avenger711
    Avenger711 30 June 2013 13: 43 New
    0
    Because in the Russian Federation no one will bring their motors. Business and nothing personal. Well, Ukraine is ready for anything, and no matter how disadvantageous it is in the medium term.
  • Avenger711
    Avenger711 30 June 2013 13: 41 New
    -1
    Meanwhile, all over the world, including the Russian Federation, new engines with higher parameters are being introduced.
  • Kasym
    Kasym 30 June 2013 21: 37 New
    +3
    seller trucks. I apologize hi , of course, but Kazakhstan has upgraded its MiG-29 in Ukraine, in Lviv. Sincerely. hi
  • Avenger711
    Avenger711 30 June 2013 13: 40 New
    -3
    There, the gliders have already rotted everything, there is nothing to upgrade.
  • Avenger711
    Avenger711 30 June 2013 13: 40 New
    0
    And then it will not be necessary.
  • aleshka
    aleshka 30 June 2013 20: 46 New
    +1
    he who will pass the exams at the GAI for 412 will at least then go on a trip! 412 took the second place in DAKAR !!!
  • Corneli
    Corneli 1 July 2013 03: 50 New
    +2
    Quote: Akim
    That there Yeltsin blurted out violet to me. Peace be upon him. But you can see that you are a very smart and great economist and political scientist who has watched TV, just teach everyone. "Muscovite deep-fried."

    Uv., Akim, who are you arguing with?) There is a trademark or a stupid troll ... or just doesn’t want to see that there are such pictures, only Russian ones, MUCH MORE !!!! And this is a fact!)
  • Arkan
    Arkan 30 June 2013 11: 28 New
    +5
    Quote: seller trucks
    you stupid Ukrainians still fight Yeltsin said "Take as much sovereignty as you can swallow"

    He said this to the Chechens, and even before he destroyed the Union.
  • Avenger711
    Avenger711 30 June 2013 13: 38 New
    +3
    As for a little chin, you know this far from the truth. However, why the hell are you protecting your Nenko here, we still do not understand. They promised you a second France, and where is it? What is the general idea of ​​the existence of an independent nenko?
    1. itkul
      itkul 30 June 2013 13: 57 New
      +1
      Quote: Avenger711
      What is the general idea of ​​the existence of an independent nenko?


      This can be read from the best friend of Ukraine vity161, this is our answer to Kotobot

      http://vity161.livejournal.com/
      1. Avenger711
        Avenger711 30 June 2013 16: 38 New
        -1
        And I thought that kotobot meme is pure with bmpd. :)
    2. Corneli
      Corneli 1 July 2013 03: 55 New
      +2
      Quote: Avenger711
      However, why the hell are you protecting your Nenko here, we still do not understand.

      Maybe because "nenko" is our country? Or is the concept of "homeland" an empty phrase for you?
      Quote: Avenger711
      They promised you a second France, and where is it?

      They didn’t promise you) Do not worry, watch your "promises"!) And we, as a thread, will try to figure it out ...
      Quote: Avenger711
      What is the general idea of ​​the existence of an independent nenko?

      Apparently the same is the existence of "independent of the USSR - Russia!" But doesn’t it bother you? everything is cool with you!
  • svp67
    svp67 30 June 2013 12: 08 New
    +5
    Quote: seller trucks
    Abandoned airfield in Crimea

    And this is with us
    1. seller trucks
      seller trucks 30 June 2013 12: 38 New
      +3
      An outrageous fact, from the 150 Tu 22М there are less than half in the ranks, 30 pcs will be modernized, but the Ukrainians sawed their 60 pcs on needles
      1. Avenger711
        Avenger711 30 June 2013 16: 41 New
        -2
        IMHO, do not break up the Union, but somehow solve the issue with Germany and withdraw the troops, then all the old Tu-22 and Tu-22M would also go to the needles, just as part of the inevitable reduction of the army. IMHO now cut technology in the 90s has a rather weak effect on our combat effectiveness. They wouldn’t have cut it, so the whole excess would have been rotten if it had not decayed, it’s simply morally and technically outdated, and the factories need to work. In general, after 2000, disposal would have begun anyway.
  • svp67
    svp67 30 June 2013 12: 14 New
    -2
    Quote: seller trucks
    Abandoned airfield in Crimea

    Abandoned military equipment near Moscow


    1. seller trucks
      seller trucks 30 June 2013 12: 42 New
      +2
      And this is with us


      Yes, you are some kind of comrade is not OUR, Ukrainian zaplanets or plankton with a swamp?

      I am more outrageous fact, the destruction of the BZHRK, and not some kind of simplified cars
      1. svp67
        svp67 30 June 2013 12: 47 New
        11
        Quote: seller trucks
        Yes, you are some kind of comrade is not OUR, Ukrainian zaplanets or plankton with a swamp?

        Yes, I don’t like it when “they see a speck in a stranger’s eye, but they don’t notice the logs in their eyes”. We also have enough problems and a mess, and so far there is nothing to boast of, especially when a stream of new equipment goes from the factories to the troops, then it will be possible to look at Ukraine from high, but for now, the “swamps” we have, though separate, are in them equally wet and wobbles ...
        And it turns out you do not like to face the truth?
        1. Avenger711
          Avenger711 30 June 2013 13: 44 New
          -6
          He’s already coming, so don’t do it here la-la.
          1. svp67
            svp67 30 June 2013 16: 16 New
            +2
            Quote: Avenger711
            He’s already coming, so don’t do it here la-la.
            Who is he or what? Stream or what? So this is a "trickle", and with what was in the USSR, the comparison is still weak. But I really hope that all the efforts that have been made recently will be successful ...
            1. Avenger711
              Avenger711 30 June 2013 16: 44 New
              -6
              In the USSR there was an army of 5kk people. It is logical to expect that the supply volume should now be in 5 times less. There is no objective need to deploy a peacetime army of more than a million now, because NATO has also contracted. By modern standards, a hundred combat aircraft is a lot.
              1. svp67
                svp67 30 June 2013 16: 51 New
                +3
                Quote: Avenger711
                In the USSR there was an army of 5kk people. It is logical to expect that the supply volume should now be in 5 times less. There is no objective need to deploy a peacetime army of more than a million now, because NATO has also contracted. By modern standards, a hundred combat aircraft is a lot.
                So I take not a general, but a specific stream. In the USSR, a change of armaments occurred on average once every 10 years, but modifications appeared regularly and basic samples were modified during repairs. so that in parts the equipment was more or less new and modern. Now the vast majority of weapons and military equipment are far from 25 years old and they have not been modernized for a long time.
                1. Avenger711
                  Avenger711 30 June 2013 21: 25 New
                  -3
                  In the USSR, in the 70s, T-34s were still encountered in units. Changing weapons 10 years later was typical in the first years after the War in Aviation, when the gain in performance characteristics of the new models was significant and the planes that did not crash could have gone 15 years later. Physically changing equipment every 10 years is simply unrealistic, during which time the model in production only changes.
                  However, this also depends on the resources thrown into the defense. If NATO has tightened up on the same “Rafales,” France is now riveting just 11 a year, and there are not five hundred “typhoons” all over Europe, then it’s obvious that it makes no sense for us to supply 1000 aircraft a year. China is also not too strong, the army is large, but there is little modern technology.
              2. Airman
                Airman 30 June 2013 18: 28 New
                +2
                Quote: Avenger711
                In the USSR there was an army of 5kk people. It is logical to expect that the supply volume should now be in 5 times less. There is no objective need to deploy a peacetime army of more than a million now, because NATO has also contracted. By modern standards, a hundred combat aircraft is a lot.


                For Spain there are many, for Russia, with its open spaces, very few. It is necessary to balance the territory and population.
                1. Avenger711
                  Avenger711 30 June 2013 21: 28 New
                  -2
                  Brazil is huge and has a larger population than Russia, but its army is second-rate and relatively small. The pace of new technology now may not be outstanding, but quite bearable.
  • omsbon
    omsbon 30 June 2013 08: 37 New
    +9
    So you read what you have done and where you came to, in the once great country, you really want all this dirty tricks in the form of a hunchback, bori drunk and other evil spirits, for all that you have done, pour gasoline and burn it with gas!
  • Tatarus
    Tatarus 30 June 2013 08: 47 New
    +6
    In general, the course taken by the Ukrainian government reflects the realities, now it remains only to observe how these reforms will be implemented and whether they will be carried out in good faith.

    What are the realities ??? Ukraine is dragged to the stall of near European countries. Well this is just for use. They don’t even get paid. So have a dry. An example of Bulgaria, Greece, Cyprus and others no one sees? Tell the fraternal people of Ukraine. I don’t think he’s all fraternal. Those who remember how they lived together may be fraternal. But in about 15 years a generation will grow up for which we are not brothers, but neighbors that are strangling with gas, have created a famine and so on. If we want to keep the Ukrainian people fraternal, we must conduct the annexation of the territory of Ukraine. Otherwise, the region. Time is less and less, there are fewer brothers ... The chances for Ukraine to avoid corruption are less. Russia must decide. Need Ukraine? Let's save, pull out of the abyss. Do you need Ukraine? So what to keep above the cliff, let go of your hand.
    1. Avenger711
      Avenger711 30 June 2013 13: 47 New
      +3
      It is possible to pull out only by force, and there is little sense in dealing with an independent sense. Sfiga do we need to save an independent? Why do we even need its industry, if it will only compete with ours. First, the association, MOV amicably forgotten, those who have not forgotten, he is in Poland, and then only save.
    2. aleshka
      aleshka 30 June 2013 20: 49 New
      0
      so to have and Vaseline enough, why money ???
  • Denis
    Denis 30 June 2013 08: 57 New
    +2
    There was Ulyanovsk on the slipway, now scrap metal
    for obvious reasons, there is no photo of the rocket train factory
    1. Kars
      Kars 30 June 2013 09: 13 New
      +6
      Quote: Denis
      There was Ulyanovsk on the slipway, now scrap metal

      and what had to be done with him?


      Inheritance of the USSR .. Heavy aircraft carrier "Minsk" ...
      as part of the Minsk World attraction in the Chinese port of Shenzhen, 2004
      1. Denis
        Denis 30 June 2013 18: 25 New
        +1
        Quote: Kars
        and what had to be done with him?
        can just finish building does not interfere?
        1. Kars
          Kars 30 June 2013 18: 27 New
          +2
          Quote: Denis
          can just finish building does not interfere?

          Really? And the Russian Federation was going to finish building it? They have some unfinished submarines since that time in their territory. In this thread, they cried that there was no money for the purchase of the Tu-160 READY. And you about the completion of an aircraft carrier that could be said to be an all-Union construction site)))
  • vostok1982
    vostok1982 30 June 2013 08: 58 New
    17
    Papua Nova Ukraine - that’s how it should be called independent. Why do Papuans need airplanes, rockets, ships and shipyards? A white uncle carries beads and beautiful green candy wrappers from behind a hillock - what else is needed from this life?
    1. Corsair5912
      Corsair5912 30 June 2013 09: 34 New
      17
      Quote: vostok1982
      Papua Nova Ukraine - that’s how it should be called independent. Why do Papuans need airplanes, rockets, ships and shipyards? A white uncle carries beads and beautiful green candy wrappers from behind a hillock - what else is needed from this life?

      You are wrong, the majority of Ukrainians are normal, educated, working people are not much different from Russians. There is no difference between us, except for a small nuance.
      Russia (Great Russia) has always been independent and independent, and the idea of ​​self-sufficiency did not exist with us. There was no need for us to trump someone before the independence and inappropriateness, this inferiority complex is unfamiliar to us, as is characteristic of Poles and Ukrainians.
      Poles and Ukrainians have long been free and independent, but do not cease to hate the mockals, invaders, who long ago liberated both of them from the real invaders and gave them freedom and independence.
      This rot is rooted in even the most intelligent and sensible people, and our common overseas enemies are betting on it.
      1. vostok1982
        vostok1982 30 June 2013 11: 01 New
        14
        I’m not talking about Ukrainians - for these are essentially the same Russian and generally fit people. I'm talking about the project "Independent Ukraine". This is an anti-Russian, anti-people project. Tell me - the people who allegedly strove for independence and eventually got it - will they die out half a million a year? It was 52 million, 44 remained. Of these 44 million, 5-7 million were forced to travel abroad to earn money. What the hell is that? There was a flourishing republic, from all over the Union they strove to move here, but now what? In Nikolaev, instead of aircraft carriers, barges are built - and then only hulls, and then they will be completed by tugboat to Greece. What the hell is this?
        1. Kars
          Kars 30 June 2013 11: 11 New
          +1
          Quote: vostok1982
          in the end I got it - will it die out for half a million a year? It was 52 million, 44 remained.

          What do you think after 1917 and the formation of the USSR, the population immediately began to grow? And take into account factors such as the lack of contraception and the availability of free time after sunset. Now banning the Internet and TV after 7 pm, and piercing all the condoms is also a fertility boom The contraction of the population is a scourge of developed countries, it is Africa and Asia proliferate like rabbits.
          1. vostok1982
            vostok1982 30 June 2013 12: 18 New
            10
            abortions have been done since prehistoric times. After the Revolution, the population began to grow from 1922-24. With that, quickly. How do you imagine the ban on TVs and computers? Declare in Ukraine the fairest social order - primitive communal? You look at Belarus - there the population decreased by 7% and there is no such phenomenon as unskilled labor export. In Ukraine, the population decreased by 16% and more than 10% of the migrant workers abroad. Factories are not built, and those that are often sold for scrap. In the lands where the majority of Russians are in the south and east, industry is still somehow warming. On the West, the legacy of "bloody tyranny" in the very first years was destroyed - is this not the behavior of the Papuans?
            1. Avenger711
              Avenger711 30 June 2013 14: 00 New
              -1
              - We will build plants and factories!
              - Badang!
        2. teodorh
          teodorh 30 June 2013 18: 32 New
          -1
          What do you say about Russia? There were 150 million. 138 million remained. For 24 million young people (ages 15-24) there are 40 million pensioners. Over 20 years, more than 20 thousand settlements were destroyed.
          1. Avenger711
            Avenger711 30 June 2013 21: 29 New
            0
            In Russia, 143 million and the population is growing. Stop lying brazenly.
            1. teodorh
              teodorh 30 June 2013 22: 19 New
              +2
              On the first channel they said?
          2. Zlodeey
            Zlodeey 30 June 2013 22: 20 New
            +1
            Quote: teodorh
            What do you say about Russia? It was 150 million. 138 million remained

            From where such data about 138 million? As of January 1, 2013, according to Rosstat, there are 143 permanent residents in Russia.
            Since 2010, population growth began, thank God, after the 90s!
      2. svp67
        svp67 30 June 2013 13: 21 New
        +1
        Quote: Corsair5912
        Russia (Great Russia) has always been independent and independent, and the idea of ​​autonomy did not exist with us.

        Oh oh And on the Kulikovo field, what were we fighting for?
      3. Avenger711
        Avenger711 30 June 2013 13: 58 New
        -2
        Little Russians are also unusual.
  • Alexander-Tomsk
    Alexander-Tomsk 30 June 2013 09: 01 New
    +3
    The month of Azerbaijan is coming to an end, the month of Ukraine begins ... We are waiting in August for an article about the Armed Forces of Kazakhstan. laughing
  • Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 30 June 2013 09: 06 New
    +4
    I have many friends in the armed forces of Ukraine. I'm worried about their future career. But judging by an article in the army, cardinal reforms have matured. But God forbid that these reforms take place according to the scenario of "our" Serdyukov. Then it will turn out in Chernomyrdinsk: they wanted the best, but it turned out as always ... The wish to the brothers of soldiers and officers of Ukraine is one: to survive these difficult times and serve!
  • seller trucks
    seller trucks 30 June 2013 09: 16 New
    +5
    Ukrainian Navy
    1. Old_kapitan
      Old_kapitan 30 June 2013 11: 25 New
      0
      You, I see love to criticize. Do you know what boats were offered during the section? And in the know, how many and which boats were part of the Black Sea Fleet of the USSR and what is now in the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation?
      1. seller trucks
        seller trucks 30 June 2013 11: 54 New
        10
        Quote: Old_Kapitan
        You, I see love to criticize.


        in the Ukrainian Navy - 14 admirals, each "basin" according to the Ukrainian admiral
        1. Old_kapitan
          Old_kapitan 30 June 2013 11: 56 New
          +1
          in the Ukrainian Navy - 14 admirals, each "basin" according to the Ukrainian admiral
          I do not argue at all! This outrageous fact, unfortunately, has a place to be. But I'm not talking about admirals ....
      2. Old_kapitan
        Old_kapitan 30 June 2013 12: 55 New
        +7
        I see someone already minusanul. I would like to hear - for what? What am I saying wrong? As of the 91 year, the Black Sea Fleet included 28 submarines, almost a third of them were Varshavyanka.
        1. Ukraine was offered 1 from 3 to choose from: 1 is not repairable, 2 is even worse than the one called U-01, 3 is also not in a ready state. Is that honest? Just don’t say that you would have killed everything anyway - I know it myself. But the figure is indicative ...
        2. Well, they didn’t give it back, they didn’t give it away. But where did they disappear, since there were two left at the Russian Black Sea Fleet, and one of them is no better than Zaporozhye? Gone on the SF? Partly yes. But most were sold at the price of scrap metal.
        So before you drag chernukha here, and then also minus for nothing - think about it.
        1. Avenger711
          Avenger711 30 June 2013 14: 02 New
          -5
          Well, not everywhere in the Russian Federation there were traitors, and yes, they gave it to the Limitrof, which isn’t necessary for themselves. And because with limitrophs only this is possible. There can be no question of justice now, because justice is the destiny of the strong.
        2. Misantrop
          Misantrop 30 June 2013 16: 35 New
          +4
          Quote: Old_Kapitan
          As of the 91st year, the Black Sea Fleet included 28 submarines, almost a third of them are Varshavyanki.

          These were not "were," but "numbered." Alas, the actual state of the majority was such that ... the anti-forum filter will not miss an adequate assessment
  • Kars
    Kars 30 June 2013 09: 19 New
    +2
    Although I'm certainly against saving the submarine.
  • Corsair5912
    Corsair5912 30 June 2013 09: 20 New
    13
    Ukraine is a forcibly torn part of Russia; its sovereignty is a fiction. Only in close fraternal alliance with Russia can Ukraine be a normal country.
    A leg or a hand, too, with artificial nutrition, can exist for a long time separately from the body, but it will never become a full-fledged organism, no matter how hard the yushchenko, pulling herds and farionki, tearing it off.
    And the Nazi Lion, with the brutal cave savages banderlogs, is a purulent wound on the body of Ukraine, which can turn into gangrene and bring it to rot and decay.
    1. vostok1982
      vostok1982 30 June 2013 12: 20 New
      15
      I agree one hundred percent! And in general, we must already curtail Trotskyist propaganda to rename Little Russia to Ukraine and Little Russians to Ukrainians. It was a vile, anti-people, nasty, thoroughly false action!
  • Fofan
    Fofan 30 June 2013 09: 21 New
    +7
    Even strategic Tu-160 bombers were put into service with the Ukrainian Armed Forces, but later they were transferred to Russia at the expense of the gas debt
    how many destroyed them? ten? eleven? as far as I remember, the Americans paid 1 million bucks for a sawn plane. where are these heroes, lovers of silver coins?
    1. Kars
      Kars 30 June 2013 09: 30 New
      +1
      Quote: Fofan
      how many destroyed them? ten? eleven? as far as I remember, the Americans paid 1 million bucks for a sawn plane. where are these heroes, lovers of silver coins?

      According to the military doctrine of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, strategic bombers were not needed. It’s better to ask why the Russian Federation wandered so long before redeeming. And keeping the Tu-160 is an inexpensive pleasure. And if I'm not mistaken, the Russian Federation cut Tu-95
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 30 June 2013 09: 45 New
        +9
        What money to buy back? They sat with their bare asses, the miners on the Humpback Bridge pounded with helmets on the asphalt. Could just canned. Like the same Americans do in Davis Montan.
        1. Old_kapitan
          Old_kapitan 30 June 2013 11: 22 New
          +6
          What money to buy back? They sat with their bare asses, the miners on the Humpback Bridge pounded with helmets on the asphalt. Could just canned. Like the same Americans do in Davis Montan.

          And you do not compare weather conditions in Davis Montan and in Ukraine. After a year or two of such "conservation" you can forget about the plane. And to redeem ... Yes, at least as those that were taken - at the expense of debts.
          Another thing - what for Ukraine took them? It was possible to agree in exchange for MiG and Su, not even at cost, but 1 to 1 ?. I think you can.
          1. Kars
            Kars 30 June 2013 12: 02 New
            +1
            Quote: Old_Kapitan
            Another thing - what for Ukraine took them? It was possible to agree in exchange for MiG and Su, not even at cost, but 1 to 1 ?. I think you can.

            What, what, and it was vryatli. What remained on the territory, or flew over with crews, it turned out ours. And it was possible to change later. But I’ll read about such proposals
            I did not hear.
          2. svp67
            svp67 30 June 2013 12: 06 New
            +1
            Quote: Old_Kapitan
            Another thing - what for Ukraine took them?
            Yes, that was what I took. If the General Staff had fussed in time, then they could well have time to overtake new and needed planes to airfields in central Russia. Well, NOTHING, "acre dough" at that moment did not occupy the heads of our leadership ...
          3. Lopatov
            Lopatov 30 June 2013 12: 13 New
            +1
            Dry air generator is inexpensive. And the farm is clearly useful, right? What do you think, how did the Americans put equipment for long-term storage in Europe? Are local sections of the desert arranged?
            1. svp67
              svp67 30 June 2013 12: 24 New
              +2
              Quote: Spade
              Dry air generator is inexpensive. And the farm is clearly useful, right? What do you think, how did the Americans put equipment for long-term storage in Europe? Are local sections of the desert arranged?

              I don’t know how the Americans are, but we have made great progress in this area, there was such a deputy commander for armaments, General Ershov, a “big fan” of this business. and he didn’t sleep and didn’t let others, but the question of storage and savings of armored vehicles with him stepped very far. In particular, air drying units were also used ...
            2. Kars
              Kars 30 June 2013 14: 57 New
              +2
              Quote: Spade
              Dry air generator is inexpensive

              how much? plus how much does it cost to build a hangar for the Tu-160? how much will it cost security, electricity, do you need heating for the winter?
              Quote: Spade
              Do you think how the Americans put equipment for long-term storage in Europe?

              If I honestly don’t taste how many B-52 or B1B the Americans put in storage in Europe. But at the same time they knew exactly the future of these objects. The fate of the Tu-160 was not particularly known - they could in principle be brought under what kind of agreement reduction of offensive weapons, and we wouldn’t be given to sell them to China, and there would be problems with spare parts.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 30 June 2013 16: 04 New
                +1
                You did not understand me. A sample of weapons and military equipment is taken, any, from an airplane to a tank. Sealed. Then, over-dried chilled air is pumped into it, and the apparatus is finally sealed. So you can store in open areas, which the Americans did. Including and with airplanes
                1. svp67
                  svp67 30 June 2013 16: 09 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Spade
                  You did not understand me. A sample of weapons and military equipment is taken, any, from an airplane to a tank. Sealed. Then, over-dried chilled air is pumped into it, and the apparatus is finally sealed. So you can store in open areas, which the Americans did. Including and with airplanes
                  We also have something similar, but instead of air, one of the inert gases is pumped. All is well, only in monetary terms the method is not quite cheap. And so - there is an inflated bubble and even the tightness is visually visible or not, but it is necessary to check the pressure inside the “bubble” once a month and re-preserve and check the equipment’s performance every five years ...
                  1. Kars
                    Kars 30 June 2013 16: 29 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Spade
                    you do not understand me

                    Quote: svp67
                    this is good, only in monetary terms the method is not quite cheap

                    In those years, he was with us in the form of the technology used? And something tells me that it is still not an ice to keep the aircraft in this form on an open area anyway, better than just like that. And the question with the future of this canned food still remains.
                  2. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 30 June 2013 18: 12 New
                    +1
                    In my opinion, dry air is both cheaper and easier.
        2. Avenger711
          Avenger711 30 June 2013 14: 05 New
          0
          Will not work. The fact is that amers keep their cars in a very dry place, there are like 330 sunny days a year, there is simply no such nishtyak in Russia or Ukraine.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. svp67
      svp67 30 June 2013 11: 14 New
      +9
      Quote: Fofan
      where are these heroes, lovers of silver coins?

      Yes, in the same place as ours, which sold ships at a price lower than scrap metal and launched modern submarines on the needles ...
  • Fofan
    Fofan 30 June 2013 09: 47 New
    +4
    Quote: Kars
    Quote: Fofan
    how many destroyed them? ten? eleven? as far as I remember, the Americans paid 1 million bucks for a sawn plane. where are these heroes, lovers of silver coins?

    According to the military doctrine of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, strategic bombers were not needed. It’s better to ask why the Russian Federation wandered so long before redeeming. And keeping the Tu-160 is an inexpensive pleasure. And if I'm not mistaken, the Russian Federation cut Tu-95
    no need to compare the Tu-95 release of the 60s and the Tu160 released in the late 80s. Judas sawed and now think that no one will remember this for you?
    1. Kars
      Kars 30 June 2013 10: 48 New
      +1
      Quote: Fofan
      Judas sawed and now think that no one will remember this for you?

      )))) Yes, I drummed on them, and what you will remember --- you didn’t redeem yourself, and they hang on us their problems. And the Tu-95s still fly)))) like the B-52s even more bearded years) )
      Quote: Spade
      What money to buy back? They sat with their bare asses, miners on the Humpback Bridge pounded with helmets on the asphalt

      And what do we have to do with it?
      Quote: Spade
      Like the same Americans do in Davis Montan.

      the climate isn’t the one to keep the guard --- there’s no guarantee that they will be bought, and they won’t have to cut it themselves. Like Varyag he took 10 years at the factory (although there were no orders anyway) and ate several hundred thousand dollars for maintenance.

      And it would be all about money --Tu -160 would not even remain in the museum.
    2. Avenger711
      Avenger711 30 June 2013 14: 23 New
      0
      The latest Tu-95s were assembled in the 80s. This is not such antiques as the B-52.
  • pensioner
    pensioner 30 June 2013 09: 48 New
    +2
    Quote: Sukhov
    The Ukrainian army still wears the old Soviet uniform,
    which is now hopelessly great
    but also
    already a lot of the way and "went out of fashion."

    The article can be analytical and does not pull at all. The prospects for the development of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are better known to our Ukrainian comrades. But about their current state, Sukhov said so that, in principle, the discussion can be covered. Better not to say. Some time ago, here it was possible to put next to it, separated by a comma: Russia. But survived. And not on the chin Dear Akim got out. More. And today's news is proof of that.
  • svp67
    svp67 30 June 2013 10: 16 New
    +2
    The military legacy of the USSR turned out to be excessive for Ukraine
    and to draw such a conclusion, the author needed more than 20 years ... funny. This was understandable even when the division of property of the USSR Armed Forces.
    In general, the article is more devoted to the fact that Ukraine is unable or unwilling to support numerous well-armed forces, but we had the same problem, only recently the situation has changed dramatically ...
    1. seller trucks
      seller trucks 30 June 2013 10: 28 New
      +5
      Quote: svp67
      In general, the article is more devoted to the fact that Ukraine is unable or unwilling to support numerous well-armed forces, but we had the same problem, only recently the situation has changed dramatically ...


      a miracle does not happen, Ukraine is doomed, it is only a matter of time
      1. svp67
        svp67 30 June 2013 11: 03 New
        +3
        Quote: seller trucks
        a miracle does not happen, Ukraine is doomed, it is only a matter of time
        They only talk about this from the very moment of its formation, but everything remains in its place. But in general, NOTHING in this world does not last forever, including states, sooner or later they change, disappear and reappear ...
      2. gladiatorakz
        gladiatorakz 30 June 2013 11: 57 New
        -1
        Quote: seller trucks
        a miracle does not happen, Ukraine is doomed, it is only a matter of time

        And you are settled in any country and it will be doomed. Mind-s.
  • Prosto vovochka
    Prosto vovochka 30 June 2013 10: 27 New
    0
    It is sad to admit, but now the Armed Forces of Ukraine are not capable of anything. I'm not talking about Germans or Poles, a well-trained Romanian platoon will reach Kiev without encountering any resistance. The realities of the day ... Bandyukovich and his family bought the most expensive helicopter for nothing. To wash off in time.
    1. svp67
      svp67 30 June 2013 11: 06 New
      +3
      Quote: Prosto Vovochka
      a well-trained Romanian platoon will reach Kiev without meeting

      It seems to me that they will not be allowed on beyond the Odessa import or will not want to go on their own ... wink
    2. Kars
      Kars 30 June 2013 11: 13 New
      +1
      Quote: Prosto Vovochka
      a well-trained Romanian platoon will reach Kiev without encountering any resistance.

      And what are they waiting for?)) 0 probably while the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation will be withdrawn from the Crimea)))?
    3. gladiatorakz
      gladiatorakz 30 June 2013 12: 00 New
      -1
      Quote: Prosto Vovochka
      It is sad to admit, but now the Armed Forces of Ukraine are not capable of anything. I'm not talking about Germans or Poles, a well-trained Romanian platoon will reach Kiev without encountering any resistance

      Don't you write in gum? Try it. You can cut the dough. Strategist
  • Flash_96
    Flash_96 30 June 2013 10: 41 New
    +4
    It is necessary to review the results of the Bialowieza conspiracy and raise the issue of unification of fraternal republics
    to a referendum, although local and western "elites" will greatly interfere !!!!
    1. Avenger711
      Avenger711 30 June 2013 14: 25 New
      -1
      If it is recognized as illegal, then all of them will immediately become separatists and there will be no negotiations with them.
  • gladiatorakz
    gladiatorakz 30 June 2013 11: 14 New
    +1
    Russia also could not save the Soviet military legacy. How many planes, ships, etc. were sawn. The question is different: how, in the current situation, Russia and Ukraine to develop their own aircraft. Preferably together. But while the Narsians are trying to throw negativity at each other. Why is the raid of 2010 considered, and in the courtyard of 2013? Why is the theme of Soviet heritage constantly chewing? Wars are changing and the sun must change. Accordingly to threats and challenges.
    1. Fofan
      Fofan 30 June 2013 11: 25 New
      -1
      Quote: gladiatorakz
      The question is different: how, in the current situation, Russia and Ukraine to develop their armed forces.
      no way. Ukraine is not worth a penny without Russia.
      1. gladiatorakz
        gladiatorakz 30 June 2013 11: 46 New
        +4
        Quote: Fofan
        no way. Ukraine is not worth a penny without Russia.

        1.Ukraine, Russia are written with a capital letter. 2. According to the meaning of the comment: no meaning was found.
      2. Kars
        Kars 30 June 2013 12: 02 New
        +2
        Quote: Fofan
        no way. Ukraine is not worth a penny without Russia


        ))))))))))
    2. Avenger711
      Avenger711 30 June 2013 14: 25 New
      -1
      In Russia, the raid is only growing, planes were cut much less and we are making new ones.
  • seller trucks
    seller trucks 30 June 2013 11: 17 New
    10
    Quote: svp67
    They only talk about this from the very moment of its formation, but everything remains in its place.


    all that Ukraine now has is not the merit of the Ukrainians, but the USSR, after the collapse of which Ukraine had the 3-th outfitting and strength army on the continent, the aviation, metallurgical and chemical industries, agricultural, them (Ukrainians) for some unlikely coincidence circumstances, got Crimea, Sevastopol and the fleet, and how did they manage this?
    1. Akim
      Akim 30 June 2013 11: 35 New
      +1
      Quote: seller trucks
      all that Ukraine now has is the merit of not the Ukrainians, but the USSR

      Just a question for general development. What did the neighbors do? Maybe new cities and urban settlements appeared? Or new plants? ...
      1. seller trucks
        seller trucks 30 June 2013 11: 41 New
        +4
        Quote: Akim
        Or new plants? ...


        I repeat but:
        “Starting from June 2011, we monthly publish data on new workshops and factories that have opened in Russia. Now, at the end of the year, we can summarize this work: in 2012 in Russia there were 487 new factories, workshops and high-tech production sites. this number was not included in small-scale production. It should be noted that the information we collected was from open sources, so the figure given is not exhaustive (the actual number is usually 5-10% higher). "

        http://www.i-russia.ru/all/news/18733/

        and you?
        1. Akim
          Akim 30 June 2013 12: 49 New
          0
          Quote: seller trucks
          and you?

          You are like Marshak: And in our apartment there is gas ... http://hvylya.org/analytics/economics/novyie-moshhnosti-promyishlennoe-razvitie-
          ukrainyi-v-2012-godu.html

          There are statistics, but it doesn’t make me feel any better. There is a work. There is no one to work. Many go homework than work at home.
          1. Avenger711
            Avenger711 30 June 2013 14: 28 New
            -1
            Nobody is coming from Russia.
      2. Avenger711
        Avenger711 30 June 2013 14: 27 New
        0
        Yes, damn it, I have nowhere to go from the Soviet petrochemical industry, so they are also building new things at an accelerated pace. Near the town there is a nuclear power plant, which in the 80s was unfinished, even there new enterprises are being organized.
    2. svp67
      svp67 30 June 2013 13: 09 New
      +2
      Quote: seller trucks
      by some unlikely coincidence, the Crimea, Sevastopol and the fleet got and how did they manage this?

      Let’s put things in order at home for a while, and only then we will start teaching others ...
  • Semurg
    Semurg 30 June 2013 11: 26 New
    +1
    Ukraine needs a compact mobile army, what was left of the union was superfluous and its maintenance was expensive, hence the sale. A professional army is certainly good, but you also need a mobile reserve, which will support the contractors here, some balance is needed. If there is money, Ukraine will its military-industrial complex and neighbors can modernize its military equipment to an acceptable level, but for now I think it’s not a lot of money. We must pay tribute to the military-industrial complex, which, without due support from the state, is rolling out interesting samples of new and deeply modernized types of equipment, while there is no domestic demand, export helps. Explicit military There are no threats to Ukraine yet, hence the lack of attention and money from here to the army.
    1. Old_kapitan
      Old_kapitan 30 June 2013 11: 36 New
      +5
      Ukraine needs a compact mobile army, what was left of the union was superfluous and its maintenance overhead
      Agree
      hence the sale
      Nah, not from here. Elementary Driban
      There are no obvious military threats to Ukraine, hence the lack of attention and money from here to the army.
      Again, not from here. Elementary greed for the possessed.
      1. Avenger711
        Avenger711 30 June 2013 14: 29 New
        -1
        Compact is how much? 10 thousand? 50, 100, 200? Even 300 thousand will not be too big an army for Ukraine.
        1. Corneli
          Corneli 1 July 2013 21: 39 New
          +2
          Quote: Avenger711
          Compact is how much? 10 thousand? 50, 100, 200? Even 300 thousand will not be too big an army for Ukraine

          Italy is us. 61 million, the army - 183 thousand
          Spain is us. 47 million, the army - 127 thousand
          France is us. 66 million, the army - 320 thousand (to be reformed to be reduced to 225 thousand by 2020)
          Germany us. 81 million, the army - 185 thousand
          The largest countries of Europe, with huge GDP (comparable to Ukrainian), living standards and advanced military technologies (up to and including nuclear weapons) ... Prim are similar in area, exceed in population ... compare:
          Ukraine is us. 46 million, the army - 184 thousand
          As you can see, the numbers in terms of numbers are quite comparable, with much less money and a smaller population. Roughly speaking, they are similar to Spain, and the Spaniards are hardly screaming that they need an army of half a million, otherwise Portugal or Andorra will capture them.
          P.S. You recalled Brazil there ... and so they (the BRICS country, 201 million people, 7th place in terms of GDP, comparable with Russia) have an army of 314 thousand people! Just.
  • Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 30 June 2013 13: 02 New
    +1
    The Ukrainian army seems to pass the same tests that we have passed. And I wish my brothers - Ukrainians with all my heart to pass them with dignity. Must go into the past "poke" in each other's shortcomings. Even in the comments on this article, people try to say: "myself." This is vulgarity. I urge everyone to realize that we are representatives of two fraternal peoples, and armies must be fraternal.
  • fedot.uncle
    fedot.uncle 30 June 2013 13: 12 New
    12
    The author carefully avoids the honest recognition of the fact that the Ukrainian armed forces were doomed initially, and were created by vicious people with vicious goals. Not everyone remembers that the creation of the Ukrainian Armed Forces was led by the commander of the cadre regiment of communications Colonel V. Martirosyan. While his fellow countrymen fought a bloody battle with the Azerbaijanis, the cunning colonel took the oath of the morons who were stupid from the fall of the sky, directly on the October Revolution Square. The commissioner under him was a teacher of Marxism-Leninism from Vinnitsa, a sergeant of the reserve Mulyava. All officers and generals who were selected for the Ukrainian army remember a bunch of dandruff on his colonel uniform. Under these figures, the entire rear and staff bastard of the USSR gathered in Ukraine. There was no place for military officers, Heroes of the Soviet Union. They had to become mercenaries in Azerbaijan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, etc. And today this gang is reforming the armed forces !! There are 14 admirals per floating object.
    1. Old_kapitan
      Old_kapitan 30 June 2013 17: 06 New
      0
      Weighted score. It is a pity that it is impossible to put more than one plus.
  • Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 30 June 2013 13: 55 New
    0
    It is time to think about the joint training of Russian and Ukrainian officers at higher educational institutions. From this, the military fraternity will only be stronger. And it turns out that representatives of the half-Earth study in Russian academies, but are there Ukrainians there? That's it. The Ukrainian military school has a high level (it is also the successor to the magnificent Soviet military school). And Russian officers could be trained in Ukrainian military schools. He studied at the legendary HVAUS, in Kharkov. Only the goodwill of leadership is needed.
    1. svp67
      svp67 30 June 2013 13: 58 New
      -2
      Quote: Ivanovich47
      It is time to think about the joint training of Russian and Ukrainian officers at higher educational institutions.
      It’s difficult - there are different standards ...
      1. Akim
        Akim 30 June 2013 14: 19 New
        -2
        Quote: svp67
        It’s difficult - there are different standards ...

        Can you enlighten that such a coordinate has changed? Submariners really need to study at Russian universities. Anti-aircraft gunners are gone. They pulled up their base. (And about 2 years ago there was such an idea)
        1. seller trucks
          seller trucks 30 June 2013 14: 36 New
          0
          Submariners really need to study at Russian universities.


          Kim, what kind of submariners are you talking about, in Ukraine in the next 500 years, submarines are not expected, you really have a hoax Yezhel: the revival of the Ukrainian submarine fleet will begin with Zaporizhia, but it’s clearly crazy
          1. Akim
            Akim 30 June 2013 14: 44 New
            -1
            Quote: seller trucks
            what kind of submariners are you talking about, in Ukraine in the next 500 years, submarines are not foreseen

            Well, in your words, we are striving for NATO. So the Danes or Germans will give us .. If you push back, it means they will teach in Cologne. Just do not think the same way. There is also China, which really needs Ukraine, as a window to Europe.
            1. seller trucks
              seller trucks 30 June 2013 14: 50 New
              +3
              Quote: Akim
              So Danes or Germans will give us ..


              nobody will give you anything, everything is for money, but in Ukraine there is no money, Ukraine is like a window to Europe, but how could I forget that you and China have a common border, damn it, don’t smack nonsense. Ukrainian Chinese friendship forever
              1. Akim
                Akim 30 June 2013 16: 11 New
                0
                Quote: seller trucks
                I could forget your common border with China,

                I told you straightforwardness. There is a common border - it means there are trade links. Apparently Britain has shifted on the map because MG produces Chinese cars. China is looking for various ways to enter Europe and Ukraine is suitable for it. And I will not discuss about submarines, because I will disappoint you - Ukraine is not joining NATO.
        2. svp67
          svp67 30 June 2013 16: 35 New
          0
          Quote: Akim
          Can you enlighten that such a coordinate has changed?
          Yes, the fact that you strive to integrate more closely into NATO ... And there the standards are different and they teach somewhat differently. Or isn’t it? And for the crew of the only submarine, I really think your country will find money for training ...
          1. Akim
            Akim 30 June 2013 16: 51 New
            0
            Quote: svp67
            Yes, the fact that you seek to integrate more into NATO ..

            Our song is good - start over. What NATO standards did you see introduced in the Armed Forces?
            1. svp67
              svp67 30 June 2013 20: 46 New
              0
              Quote: Akim
              Our song is good - start over. What NATO standards did you see introduced in the Armed Forces?

              On 12 on March 2013, at the NATO headquarters in Brussels, the signing of the Road Map for the areas of cooperation between the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the NATO Standardization Agency took place.
              Is it about your sun or not?
              1. Akim
                Akim 30 June 2013 21: 16 New
                0
                Quote: svp67
                for standardization

                Standardization and standards are oddly different things. It just means that some military equipment can carry out operations for NATO without any lengthy expert procedures. (like Ana in Mali)
                We do not change topographic maps, the color of the enemy and symbols. The officer line remains relevant. Like everything else (caliber, track gauge, light signals, etc.) Do not be like our Vitrenko. She is a politician - she needs it for bread.
                1. svp67
                  svp67 30 June 2013 21: 48 New
                  0
                  Quote: Akim
                  ) Do not be like our Vitrenko. She is a politician - she needs it for bread.

                  The command and control system of the Armed Forces of Ukraine will be organized in accordance with modern requirements and principles that are used in NATO. New personnel procedures will be introduced as part of the Armed Forces' efforts to achieve compatibility with NATO command and control systems.
                  I hope you understand what a "command and control system" is. And now they are VARIOUS in NATO and the RF Armed Forces ...
                  1. Akim
                    Akim 30 June 2013 22: 24 New
                    0
                    Quote: svp67
                    New personnel procedures will be introduced as part of the Armed Forces efforts to achieve compatibility with NATO command and control systems.


                    Where did you get this? I myself began to doubt, although I have a slightly higher level of information. I had to delve into the Government Portal:
                    The document defines specific areas of cooperation with the NATO Standardization Agency, in particular: studying the experience of NATO working groups in standardization, training of Ukrainian officers at the NATO Standardization Agency, gaining access to the Agency’s database, participating in joint projects for the preparation of standardization agreements and publications NATO and others.

                    At the beginning I translated into a simpler language.
            2. aviamed90
              aviamed90 30 June 2013 21: 03 New
              +1
              Akim


              "The basis of the Ukrainian contingent in Iraq was the 5th separate mechanized brigade, staffed on a voluntary basis.
              On July 31, 2003, President of Ukraine L. Kuchma decided to redeploy from Kuwait to Iraq the 19th separate Ukrainian battalion of radiation, chemical and bacteriological protection (450 troops). "(CPSU).

              How did you fight with them without standards? And to whom did they submit as a result?
              1. Akim
                Akim 30 June 2013 22: 34 New
                0
                Quote: aviamed90
                How did you fight with them without standards? And to whom did they submit as a result?


                To begin with, they did not fight. Neither 5 nor 6 brigade took part in the hostilities
                As for submission. The submission of the brigade was to the American headquarters I don’t know about maps, but in peacekeeping missions in Serbia maps are drawn according to NATO standards. But there are no concepts enemy, line of defense, offensive routes In UKRPOLbat they normally cooperate. But these are particular situations that do not have a general tendency towards APU.
    2. seller trucks
      seller trucks 30 June 2013 14: 23 New
      0
      Quote: Ivanovich47
      and Ukrainians are there?


      currently Ukraine is our likely adversary as it is trying to become a member of NATO, sadly but a fact
      1. Akim
        Akim 30 June 2013 14: 34 New
        +2
        Quote: seller trucks
        currently Ukraine is our likely adversary as it is trying to become a member of NATO,


        When you left Crimea, you can see the right hemisphere turned off. Imagine a lot.
        1. seller trucks
          seller trucks 30 June 2013 14: 46 New
          +5
          What's wrong? your specialists shot and shot down Russian planes in Georgia at 2008, your mercenaries fought and shot at Russian servicemen in Chechnya and Georgia, in Ukraine oppressed the Russian population for more than 20 years, banned the Russian language, rewritten history in Ukraine, destroyed and desecrated monuments to the liberation wars in the Second World War, you honor Bander and Shukhevych and other SS abomination, did not forget anything?
          1. Akim
            Akim 30 June 2013 14: 59 New
            -2
            Quote: seller trucks
            your specialists fired and shot down Russian planes in Georgia in 2008,

            I'm tired of refuting this tale. If you want, believe it. As for the Russian population and language, no one oppresses me. Maybe in Crimea the old people also rest against Ukrainian, but they know several languages ​​and the middle generation and young people know - on the contrary, it’s not shameful even +. And the monuments. Here is a permanent post in Odessa at the monument to the Unknown Sailor, and even expensive gas lives there in the form of an eternal flame. You do not live only on the Web, but come and see. Enough horror stories.
            1. seller trucks
              seller trucks 30 June 2013 15: 14 New
              +2


              what's wrong again?
              1. Akim
                Akim 30 June 2013 15: 44 New
                -1
                Quote: seller trucks
                what's wrong again?


                I saw a similar "movie". In a topic in VO they already raised it as evidence. I broke all his arguments. I don’t want to repeat myself. In general, RTR has become like the "Voice of America" ​​- it carries nonsense from a microbe made to the size of a horse. I am not interested in this topic. She is provocative. With the same success, you can watch a Georgian film about that war.
                1. seller trucks
                  seller trucks 30 June 2013 16: 03 New
                  +3
                  “According to the UN report, last year Georgia imported 74 tanks, 6 armored vehicles, 9 large-caliber artillery systems, 8 airplanes, 10,8 thousands of missiles and launchers, and 28,8 thousands of firearms. From this list, Ukraine has fully supplied all tanks In addition, in the 2007 year, our country exported Georgia 5 artillery systems, 495 missiles and launchers, as well as 19964 firearms to this country, taking into account the market value of this technology ki and armaments, Ukrainian sellers earned more than 100 million dollars from their Georgian partners last year, according to Mikhail Samus, in general, from various estimates, Ukraine earned from 2007 million dollars to selling arms and military equipment in 600, thus Georgia acquired over 10% of Ukrainian military goods last year. "

                  Read more: http://www.inosmi.ru/world/20080812/243158.html#ixzz2XhTdNb8n
                  Which countries armed Georgia (Delo, Ukraine)

                  go for it, even if Ukrainians write about it
                  1. Akim
                    Akim 30 June 2013 16: 16 New
                    -1
                    Quote: seller trucks
                    go for it, even if Ukrainians write about it

                    And what was TABU for selling arms to Georgia? Or did you lower it to Sierra Leone?
                    1. seller trucks
                      seller trucks 30 June 2013 17: 18 New
                      +3
                      Quote: Akim
                      And what was TABU for selling arms to Georgia?


                      there’s no taboo, but there are instructors - Ukrainians
                      1. Akim
                        Akim 30 June 2013 17: 46 New
                        -5
                        Quote: seller trucks
                        and instructors are Ukrainians

                        And which country in the world supplies its weapons without specialist instructors? Or are there no Russian military advisers in Syria?
                      2. seller trucks
                        seller trucks 30 June 2013 19: 39 New
                        +5
                        Georgians - occupiers, Syrians - are fighting for their freedom, in their own land, Ukrainians are accomplices of the occupying terrorists.
                      3. Akim
                        Akim 30 June 2013 21: 21 New
                        -3
                        Quote: seller trucks
                        Georgians - occupiers, Syrians - fight for their freedom


                        How well and firmly said - because the media have told you so. Look at the Air Force or CNN - they perceive everything diametrically. They were told so. And there is a third opinion. Look Chinese CCTV times pride Ukrainian channels does not allow watching.
                      4. Corneli
                        Corneli 1 July 2013 22: 00 New
                        +1
                        Quote: seller trucks
                        Georgians - occupiers, Syrians - are fighting for their freedom, in their land,

                        And who did Georgia “occupy” there in 2007? wassat As always, “zombies” suffer from the substitution of dates and concepts (
                        Quote: seller trucks
                        Ukrainians are accomplices of the occupying terrorists.

                        Already to the "terrorists" they dragged us)))
                        P.S. You know, in Syria, about 600 immigrants from Russia howl on the side of the terrorists (there were by the way Ukrainians in Chechnya, "expert"?). And they are fighting with Russian weapons. Following your "unique" zombie logic, Russia is an "accomplice of terrorists" and a great friend of NATO countries and other Saudi-Qatari people.
      2. Alexander D.
        Alexander D. 30 June 2013 15: 12 New
        -12
        Quote: seller trucks
        What's wrong? your specialists shot and shot down Russian planes in Georgia at 2008, your mercenaries fought and shot at Russian servicemen in Chechnya and Georgia, in Ukraine oppressed the Russian population for more than 20 years, banned the Russian language, rewritten history in Ukraine, destroyed and desecrated monuments to the liberation wars in the Second World War, you honor Bander and Shukhevych and other SS abomination, did not forget anything?

        Have you looked at their passport ?! About Chechnya, this is generally a fairy tale based on soldier's tales. The Russian population in Ukraine lives like Christ’s bosom. All the thieves ’elite in Ukraine come from Russia. Monuments to WWII soldiers are being restored and kept in good condition. We even restore monuments to fighters for Soviet power. Bandera and Shukhevych in Donetsk have never been honored so accurately. Before you curse Ukraine, come here and take a walk at least a week.
        1. seller trucks
          seller trucks 30 June 2013 15: 21 New
          +8
          Sashko Bily (Alexander Muzychko) awarded the Order of Ichkeria "Kyoman Turpal" (Hero of the Nation). On his chest there is an icon with the coat of arms of Ichkeria, which almost all Chechen thugs wore on headdresses instead of cockades.
          1. Alexander D.
            Alexander D. 30 June 2013 15: 35 New
            -10
            Alexander Ivanovich Muzychko was born on September 19, 1962 in Kizel (Perm Territory). I’m saying that the whole gangster elite in Ukraine are immigrants from Russia.
            1. seller trucks
              seller trucks 30 June 2013 15: 58 New
              +7
              Quote: Alexander D.
              I’m saying that the whole gangster elite in Ukraine are immigrants from Russia.



              this is a psychiatrist, I will not help
          2. Old_kapitan
            Old_kapitan 30 June 2013 17: 41 New
            +4
            You know, this is not even funny. What, Sashko Bily - the military personnel APU? How much can it be repeated that mercenaries are outside nationality. For you a revelation that Russian mercenaries fought against the Russians in Chechnya? Or the fact that Russian warrant officers and officers sold weapons and ammunition to the Czechs?
            You can minus, this is in your style, but first look: http://www.1tv.ru/news/crime/135616



            1. The comment was deleted.
  • aviamed90
    aviamed90 30 June 2013 20: 54 New
    +1
    ivanych47

    Yes, already "strengthened the military fraternity" in the VVA named Yu. A. Gagarin at the command faculty in the 90s!

    And then the special officers found Ukrainian officers (who studied there) for copying the materials of the curriculum.

    The fact is clear and taken red handed. The scandal was not good. At the level of the embassy and military attache. But - they hushed up like!

    Well, after that, they were asked to exit. More Ukrainian officers in Russian military schools were not trained.

    On this, all military cooperation ended!
    1. Old_kapitan
      Old_kapitan 30 June 2013 21: 06 New
      +1
      And then the special officers found Ukrainian officers (who studied there) for copying the materials of the curriculum.
      Lord, so what did they find secret in the curriculum? What is being taught for what. The comparison is not entirely correct, but somewhere like this: I worked as a military instructor at school, so I also had to write a curriculum. Well, I asked the old military commander for it and copied it.
      1. aviamed90
        aviamed90 30 June 2013 21: 18 New
        +1
        Old_Kapitan

        I am not a special person and I was not present at the same time.
        But there must have been a reason.
        1. aviamed90
          aviamed90 30 June 2013 21: 58 New
          +2
          Old_Kapitan

          Well, yes.

          If we compare the military academy and the school, there are almost no differences!

          I only ask you to take into account that Russian officers underwent training according to one curriculum (as well as Belarusian and Kazakh ones), and all the rest - in a different way. For this, there was a special faculty.

          And I clarify: I did not write - "curriculum."

          I wrote - "curriculum materials."
        2. Old_kapitan
          Old_kapitan 1 July 2013 04: 56 New
          +1
          I am not a special person and I was not present at the same time.
          But there must have been a reason.
          Well yes. If you really want to, then you can.
  • individual
    individual 30 June 2013 14: 36 New
    +3
    In the cruel modern world, Ukraine alone will not survive.
    But she cannot decide on the CU or the EU along the way.
    Torn by contradictions, its economy is treading water in place, contradictory decisions do not contribute to Ukrainian business and deductions to the treasury do not allow the development of a combat-ready Army and Navy.
    Part of Ukraine for independence, part of the Customs Union, and part west of the “cookies”.
    Like a swan, cancer and a pike.
  • Alexander D.
    Alexander D. 30 June 2013 14: 42 New
    -3
    To the author minus. The article is clearly propaganda. In addition, the ignorant wrote - the Minister of Defense was not Peter, but Pavel Lebedev. Peter stands in Russia on the monuments.
  • faraon
    faraon 30 June 2013 15: 45 New
    +2
    Definitely, Ukraine needs military reforms. And you need to start with the army. a Soviet tunic, as noted earlier, was not fashionable and too big. A good article, but most of all I liked the fact that the army was on a contract basis. This is the right decision for Ukraine. Ukraine has fairly calm borders on all sides. It does not need to contain a large army., and the military units of contract soldiers seem to me just right. At present, specialists are needed in the army. But not soldiers serving in general’s dachas. And over time, there will be personnel who can lead the Ukrainian army in the right direction. Yes, the contract service itself provides for a completely different attitude to military duties. Example France is the national guard, and there are legionnaires. So if Ukraine goes in this direction it will succeed. And there, God willing, everything will fall into place and we will all become like once one people
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 30 June 2013 16: 51 New
      +2
      Quote: faraon
      it seems to me that military units of contract soldiers
      Well, make a purely contract army in Israel, since it is so good. Why should others advise something that is not necessary for oneself and for nothing?
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 30 June 2013 17: 09 New
        0
        And Ukraine will pull the Israeli version of manning the army?
  • knn54
    knn54 30 June 2013 17: 28 New
    +5
    "3 miracles of the USSR" left over to Ukraine.
    Alas, the "heirs" of the USSR were too expensive, because not their own.
    1.Secret submarine base in the small Crimean town of Balaklava - since 1961, a complex was located under Mount Tavros, where ammunition was stored (including nuclear) and the repair of submarines was carried out. Up to 14 submarines of different classes could hide in the docks of the base, and the entire complex was able to withstand the DIRECT IMPACT of a nuclear bomb with a capacity of up to 100 KTn! The object abandoned in 1993 was stolen by scrap locals and only in 2002 a museum complex was organized on the remains of the submarine base ...
    2. Horizontal Radar Arc, Pripyat.
    The titanic structure, built in 1985 to detect launches of intercontinental ballistic missiles, could have functioned successfully to this day, but in fact it worked for less than a year. The giant antenna with a height of 150 meters and a length of 800 consumed such an amount of electricity that it was built almost close to the Chernobyl nuclear power plant, and, of course, stopped its work along with the explosion of the station. At the moment, excursions are being carried to Pripyat, including at the foot of the radar ...
    3. Station of studying the ionosphere, Zmiev.
    Almost before the collapse of the Soviet Union, an ionospheric research station was built near Kharkov, which was a direct ANALOGUE to the American HAARP project in Alaska, which is successfully functioning today. The station complex consisted of several antenna fields and a giant parabolic antenna with a diameter of 25 meters, capable of emitting a power of about 25 MW. But the advanced, and very expensive, scientific equipment proved to be useless to the young Ukrainian state, and once the SECRET station is now interested in non-ferrous metal hunters. .. and, of course, tourists.
    For the Zmiev station it is especially insulting.
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 30 June 2013 17: 36 New
    +4
    They separated us all as the last suckers .. !! I wanted a beautiful life (jeans of a foreign car mafon) freedom was for everyone ?? all all expressed ?? It’s time to collect stones already .. (otherwise Shnel Arbayt or think for yourself ..)
    1. dropout
      dropout 30 June 2013 18: 19 New
      0
      The mind sometimes serves us to boldly do stupid things.
      F. Laroshfuko
  • GOOD07
    GOOD07 30 June 2013 18: 23 New
    0
    Quote: Andrey Skokovsky
    Unfortunately, you do not understand that you are not touched for one single reason - there is Russia.
    Any aggression against Ukraine will be regarded as aggression against Russia, even if this does not happen at the political level, which is unbelievable now, it will definitely happen immediately at the mental - national level, and then the avalanche-like process of merging Ukraine and Russia into one state, which no one won't stop.
    And the restoration of a single country is a terrible dream of the Anglo-Saxons and Europeans, which is why no one is attacking you, and not because all such super-duper people are all.
    If there was no Russia, all neighbors would have thrown you without exception!

    Although they are in full swing preparing for the capture or at least reducing the combat readiness of the future victim, young Ukrainians from all military specialties in the near future will only be partisans ..

    Wow! I read this for the first time, thank you for our quiet life.
    Apart from the dull Ukraine, GREAT Russia is no longer equal to anyone? Or are we not so dumb, you confused me.
  • Anti com
    Anti com 30 June 2013 18: 24 New
    +4
    The surplus of weapons that Ukraine inherited from the USSR does not bother it at all ... First, our "elites" did not work badly on this surplus. Secondly, there is still a little left to earn more ... Well, for ordinary Ukrainians this arsenal is not cold, not hot. Unless, of course, it does not explode somewhere near the house.
    Z.Y. Despite the arsenal soon (10-15 years), we will feed the army of others already (IMHO).
  • vitamin
    vitamin ky 30 June 2013 18: 41 New
    +4
    I read the whole sheet - the feeling is pre-edged and it will be even worse - Again the same rake - Squabbles - Mutual reproaches - The feeling of complete despair - I am ashamed of the comrade - I’m so ashamed of everyone!
    but even worse from the laid out materials and links -hearted heart bleeds-whoever brought the technique to such a state -worthy stake in the heart
    who brought people to such a state of rejection and non-understanding of each other - a bullet in the head
    oh people people how are you so?
  • Tambov we ...
    Tambov we ... 30 June 2013 19: 23 New
    +1
    Lord, it’s so necessary, in 1818-1921, to beat a reptile who tried to raise the black-diarrheic ensign over the southern regions of Russia ... But we play diplomats - we sift the native Russian lands.
    1. gladiatorakz
      gladiatorakz 30 June 2013 20: 36 New
      -3
      Quote: Tambov we ...
      Lord, it’s so necessary, in 1818-1921, to beat a reptile who tried to raise the black-diarrheic ensign over the southern regions of Russia ... But we play diplomats - we sift the native Russian lands.

      What on PND Internet brought? Behaved roughly? why was Napoleon swaddled? laughing
    2. Kars
      Kars 30 June 2013 22: 25 New
      +1
      Quote: Tambov we ...
      Lord, it’s so necessary, in 1818-1921, to beat a reptile who tried black-diarrhea

      Maybe you should call Tukhachevsky with hay gas))) Tambov should remember him.
      1. pensioner
        pensioner 30 June 2013 23: 08 New
        -1
        Quote: Kars
        Maybe you should call Tukhachevsky with hay gas))) Tambov should remember him.

        Do not believe it! He was on business trips in the Tambov region. repeatedly. They don’t know anything about this episode !! They recognized me, they were very surprised! Like that ... Maybe I wasn’t there: Morshansk. But a fact. Even completely educated people do not know.
  • mithridate
    mithridate 30 June 2013 19: 39 New
    0
    and who, if anything, to mobilize ???
  • zbidnev
    zbidnev 30 June 2013 20: 39 New
    +2
    The most valuable military legacy left about the USSR is military specialists, scientists, and teachers. Those people who could solve the most complex problems of the country. But they were placed in such conditions when their work was not paid and was even despised. Most went into commercial structures or went abroad. Now the staff, especially this is strongly manifested by senior and middle management - simply or flawed people, or scoundrels. In order to carry out the reform, it is necessary, in addition to finances, also very highly qualified managers. Under the existing system of power, they simply cannot exist in essence. So these reforms are another dribbling corpse of our army.
  • falcon
    falcon 30 June 2013 23: 57 New
    0
    The construction of the armed forces of any country is based on the military doctrine, which reflects all external and
    internal threats to the state. And what are the external threats to Ukraine? Maybe this is Moldova? Or Romania?
    Not even funny. And Internal Troops and border guards will more than provide internal stability ..
    We are fraternal peoples, Russia will not give you an insult to anyone!
    1. Akim
      Akim 1 July 2013 05: 35 New
      +1
      Quote: falcon
      Russia will not give you an insult to anyone!


      Do not consider Ukraine as your protectorate. From this you will achieve even more negative.
      1. Delink
        Delink 1 July 2013 06: 09 New
        0
        Do you recognize the sovereignty of Russia over you?
        You are yourselves, we ourselves. You are separated from Russia, and not by turnover.
        Not reproach will be said. You personally have nothing to do with it, this government has decided for you.
        1. Cat
          Cat 1 July 2013 06: 35 New
          +1
          Quote: Delink
          . You are separated from Russia, and not by turnover.

          Ukraine, even with a very strong desire, could not separate from Russia - for the simple reason that it had never been a part of Russia. Even before 1917, Ukraine was part of the Russian Empire, and not Russia.
          And the events of 1991, about which we are actually speaking, are secession from the USSR. Which the USSR-is nirazu not the RSFSR and especially not Russia. And there and there was a separate president and a separate government. And the Ukrainian powers that be were in a hurry to separate from the Russians, with whom at that time they had nothing to share. They fled - from allied authorities. As they say in Odessa - two big differences.
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 1 July 2013 18: 11 New
    +1
    Our peoples are very much interconnected to dress and swear! Politicians on this let them earn a rating for themselves .. just the people never understood this and I don’t understand either (I have my first wife Ukrainian .. common son .. what kind of politics is yeshkin cat ..)) enough is already divided (already militarily it's like death ..)
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 1 July 2013 18: 12 New
    0
    Our peoples are very much interconnected to dress and swear! Politicians on this let them earn a rating for themselves .. just the people never understood this and I don’t understand either (I have my first wife Ukrainian .. common son .. what kind of politics is yeshkin cat ..)) enough is already divided (already militarily it's like death ..)
  • gray
    gray 3 July 2013 13: 06 New
    +2
    In Ukraine, corrupt power, in the literal sense. They sell everything because they don’t have a homeland, there are "little Khatinka" over the hill. therefore, all weapons were sold, factories were converted into shopping centers, design bureaus were dispersed, vocational schools were liquidated, there were only universities in which masters were stamped for money.
    There was a widespread opinion that nothing threatens Ukraine (from outside), so the army should be “stadium” (75,0 thousand) and certainly a contract (barracks are quickly made for contractors, and officers with more than 20 years of service are expelled from dormitories). The salary of a kobrig is about 5000 UAH, a little less. The military leadership changes annually, and with it the ways of "development" of the armed forces and armaments. What else can I say ...