Military Review

Historian: In Belarus, the bastard described by Dostoevsky is more and more at ease

69
Historian: In Belarus, the bastard described by Dostoevsky is more and more at easeOn June 20, after two months of discussions, the Polish Senate adopted a resolution accusing the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) of the Great Patriotic War of "ethnic cleansing with signs of genocide" that took place in 1943 in Volyn. In response, several Ukrainian deputies of the Verkhovna Rada announced the possibility of adopting a similar resolution with respect to the Home Army (AK), which was operating at the same time. In Ukraine, the UPA, and in Poland - AK have long been rehabilitated, while in Belarus traditional approaches to the interpretation of the events of the Great Patriotic War, the role of Soviet partisans and underground fighters who opposed the Nazi invaders and collaborators, remained in it. On June 26, a Belarusian scientist, candidate of science told about revisionism in modern Belarus in an interview with a REGNUM correspondent historical sciences Nikolay Malishevsky.


BakuToday: How relevant for Belarus are the problems discussed by the public in Poland and Ukraine after the Polish parliamentarians adopted the Volyn Massacre?

AKovtsy with Bandera have long begun to share the skins of the “unkilled bear” - the legacy of the Belarusian partisans. For a long time in Belarus, the broad masses did not suspect who, where and how was preparing a radical re-evaluation of history - only specialists who had the opportunity to personally visit Poland and Ukraine, meet with experts, read the local press, etc. were in the know. Today in Belarus there is great public resonance in the demonization of Soviet partisans and the heroization of their opponents, although this is a long-passed stage for, for example, Ukraine and Lithuania.

No matter how crazy it may sound, however, in Belarus they are beginning to glorify the political life and subvert the partisans. Of course, we need new heroes, and they are being prepared for the appearance. So far, the truth is finding out - who is more "heroic" - AKovtsy or OUN.

There are also Lithuanian Forest Brothers. The Lithuanian Gestapo - Saugam - actively cooperated with Nazi counterparts not only against Soviet partisans, but also against AKovtsev. By the way, during the war all this svolot, mainly used in the siege of the SS, in the dirtiest actions against the peaceful population, really heroically fought only among themselves. A lot of journalistic works have been written about the squabbling of Polish formations with Bandera, who have left memory in Belarusian villages, a lot of thematic broadcasts on radio and television have been created, although basic research based on archival documents and recollections of eyewitnesses is still not enough. Therefore, we can recall the truly brilliant operations of the AK against the Nazi-trained Lithuanian nationalist formations - General Plekhavichus and others, who quantified the Poles quantitatively and in terms of weapons, in the spring of the 1944 in the so-called Kovno Lithuania. The Germans, convinced of the combat readiness of the Lithuanian wards in clashes not with unarmed peasants, but with armed force, after that did not hide their contempt for those who had been tamed: they stripped them into linen and forced an improvised “parade” to be held in such Oshmyany. Lithuanian participants carried symbolic brooms instead of sabers.

REGNUM: To what extent are the assurances of the Belarusian officials that the established approaches to the assessment of the lessons of the Great Patriotic War will not be audited, justified?

Revisionism in Belarus is practiced not only by marginal journalists, but by government officials. By the anniversary of the 200 anniversary of the Patriotic War of 1812 in Belarus, the term “Patriotic War” has already been removed from the official historiography. It was abandoned in many state departments - the Academy of Sciences, the National Bank, the ministries of culture, justice, education, etc. For the year, the authorities of Belarus organized only one scientific event to the anniversary date - the international conference 23-24 in November at the BSU, where it was again stated that the war was not Patriotic and the Belarusians did not participate in the partisan struggle, and there was no partisan struggle during the Napoleonic invasion. . At the same time, representatives of the authorities and the Ministry of Defense of the Republic of Belarus, along with the ambassadors of the European Union countries, took an active part in honoring Napoleonists who died on the Berezina, mourning together and making such statements as if the Belarusian people suffered irreparable loss of Napoleon’s aggressors and their oaths that changed them.

Rejecting the domestic nature of the 1812 war of the year has far-reaching goals and consequences. This is a kind of run-in revision of historical memory. The next step is to revise the attitude towards the Great Patriotic War. By analogy with the 1812 war of the year declared "Russian-French", they are preparing to present it as "Russian-German." Whitewash the policemen in the same way, presenting them as the “Belarusian” side of the conflict, shifting the responsibility for the genocide of the Belarusians from the fascist punishers and their lackeys to the “bloody Stalinist partisans”. Well and, accordingly, a holy place, which is never empty, must be taken by new heroes - "rebels from Polish or Ukrainian nationalists."

The history of the Patriotic Wars in modern Belarus is in correspondence with the Bolshevik frenzy and collaborative meanness. The local loud-voiced post-perestroika foam sometimes manages to outdo even the odious Valeria Novodvorskaya with her May Day statements to Ekho Moskvy in the spirit: "We did not win this war. We were overwhelmed by Stalin and his troops, Stalin and the NKVD." Provincial writers, such as Vladimir Orlov, in the 1990-e printed in state publications, led by presidential contender Vladimir Neklyaev (presidential candidate of Belarus during the 2010 campaign of the year - approx. IA REGNUM), laudatory odes to the Soviet, fascist toadies and burgomaster-organizers mass genocide of the Belarusian and Jewish population, today "at public meetings" declare that "Belarusians should continue the fight against Muscovites." 12 of June, on the Day of Russia, the Minsk City Court satisfied the claim of the Minsk City Executive Committee and decided to liquidate the oldest and one of the largest organizations of Russian compatriots in Belarus - the Minsk Society of Russian Culture "Rus". Shortly before that, in the Belarusian State University, one of the initiators of deleting the term "Patriotic War" from the Belarusian historical memory in the presence of Russian diplomatic officers was presented with a Russian public award dedicated to the Patriotic War.

REGNUM: How long has revisionism become the norm in Belarus?

The open attack on the historical memory of the Belarusians, using the Baltic and Western Ukrainian developments, did not start today. On the eve of the 65 anniversary of the victory, the books of I.Kopyla "Nebishino. War" and V.Hursika "The Crop and sang Drazhna" were propagandized. The bottom line: the war against the Belarusians began on September 1, 1939, with an attack by the USSR and Germany on Poland. The fascists quickly banished the cowardly Red Army and treated Belarusians very well - they built schools, etc. Quote: "The Germans did not swear at us, they looked at us with interest and began to treat us with chocolate, which we also saw for the first time. I was less militant, I was at the tail and I did not get any chocolate. It was a shame that tears appeared in my eyes. Seeing this, one the German pulled a harmonica from his pocket and gave it to me. " And then the “bloody Stalinist hebnya” intervened - it began to send disguised saboteurs who bombarded the Germans and caused punitive expeditions against civilians. The guerrillas in the "author's interpretation" - drunk and sadists, who were afraid of the Germans and who were engaged in writing their own exploits. The main blame for organizing the massacres of the Belarusian population lies with the Kremlin and the Central Headquarters of the partisan movement.

REGNUM: Who can voice the same in the republic, which has lost every fourth resident in the war?

It is now officially announced that during the Great Patriotic War, every third inhabitant of the BSSR perished. Along with the increase in the number of dead, more and more publicists appear, turning the interpretation of this tragedy on its head. The most heated "debaters" of the Belarusian partisans from the 1990-x in the Republic of Belarus are the Taras family - in Soviet times, such writers made themselves "name" on the chanting of Belarusian partisans, including during the First World War, which was named before 1917, the Second World War, - books like "Mikolka-Steam Engine", and now they have declared this war "moskalsko-German". The recently deceased elder brother Valentin, in Soviet times, was distinguished by special super-ideality even among local writers, taking a prominent place among them thanks to the lines “Stalin is alive and Stalin’s people will listen to Stalin’s Central Committee for many centuries!”. At the beginning of 90's, Valentin Efimovich Taras sent his son Vitaly to work on Radio Liberty and riveted an 4-serial documentary “After Victory” spinning on Belarusian state channels, acting as a lead-over. It turned out that in the conditions of the fascist occupation, the Belarusians lived a "normal and normal" life; among the invaders there were many "good lads" who entertained the girls with lip harmonics and fed the children with chocolates. Occupants cared about Belarusians - they organized schools, orphanages and boarding schools, where they fed twice a day with marmalade. But the partisans were not so good ... Which, however, did not prevent 13-year-old Vale Taras, who had tasted German marmalade, according to his confession, to escape to these same partisans and sit out with them until the liberation of Belarus in the detachment "For the Soviet Motherland". In 1950, the young Taras made a swift career in the main party newspaper of the BSSR. Thanks to the fiery lines about the "immortal genius of Stalin" and the perennial reproaches of fellow students from the BSU journalism department - they say, while you kept the suckers for the skirts, we - the Soviet partisans - crushed the enemy and shed blood for you.

Today, his younger brother, the publisher of the relevant "revealing" partisans of literature, Anatoly Efimovich Taras, states in numerous interviews that the guerrillas "mainly engaged in self-sufficiency, the population robbed and fought with their own, having destroyed more of their fellow citizens than the Nazis in 5-7 ... robbed the population and the population resisted as best they could. But the Germans couldn’t do this, it could only be done by the Bolsheviks ... For those who believe that in the history of the partisan movement there is something worthy of pride or admiration. Alas, there was nothing of the kind there. side of the war ... We showed that the guerrillas in many cases were no better than the invaders. What the guerrillas did the least was fighting, the damage they inflicted on the fascist invaders, their allies and supporters was simply insignificant ... sometimes they fought enemy, but above all - with his people th. "

REGNUM: How do the authorities react to this?

The Belarusian authorities have adopted far from the best of the Soviet past, not wanting to point out problems in an emphasis and trying to report only on victories and achievements, including in matters of historical memory. In words, the war seems to be a lot of official trumpeting in order to give more weight to its “Belarusian aspect”. Say, it was the Belarusians who defeated Hitler, driving him to suicide, etc. The state propaganda agency is trying to nationalize the legacy of the Victory (in the spirit - while you were hiding behind skirts there, we are “rotten in trenches”), having appropriated the status of the main savior not only of Moscow and the USSR, but also of Europe and the whole world.

So much attention is paid to the war that adolescent girls, coming to the memorial rally dedicated to the 70 anniversary of the tragedy of 628 Belarusian villages, burned together with residents of SS punitive and policemen, confidently say to journalists that they came to ... "Khatyn festival" arrange photo shootings with grimaces on the monuments to the victims of fascism - on freshly laid flowers and the inscriptions “Glory to the fallen heroes” and post photos in social networks ... It is not difficult to find such photos or blog entries on the Internet. All this speaks of the work carried out by republican and local authorities with the participation of veterans, who are becoming less and less with each passing year.

The Belarusian authorities abandoned the 9 parade in May (officially this tradition was interrupted by the president several years ago and moved to Independence Day in July), the names of the heroes of the partisan movement disappear in Orsha or Lev Dovator in Belarussian cities in Sharkovshchina. In parallel with the "deposition" of the Soviet partisans, on which they lay the main blame for the deaths of people and whose movement was allegedly brought from outside by Stalin and the NKVD, the imperceptible heroization of the "true inner Belarusian" partisans - the Polish AKOVtsev and Ukrainian OUN members - is going on. Those under the command of "German lads" who treated with chocolate and harmonica with a local bastard burned people sick with typhus in the villages, fed the shepherd children, destroying Belarusian villages in total 5.482. The electronic database of the Belarusian villages burned by the Nazis is published on the website of the National Archives of Belarus.

REGNUM news agency: Is the “party of power” - “Belaya Rus” silent? Silent pensioner-veteran and other youth organizations and numerous research and government agencies?

No longer silent. At the end of March, at the initiative of the Institute of History of the Academy of Sciences of the Republic of Belarus, a remarkable round table was held by the leadership of this institute "BNR as a national form of Belarusian statehood". To make it clear to the Russian reader: at the state level, the shield is openly raised:

A) the “Belarusian People’s Republic” (BNR) proclaimed under the conditions of the German occupation, whose presidents addressed memorandums of support to Kaiser Wilhelm (1918) and Adolf Hitler (1939),

B) Fascist henchmen, declared the “initiators and main persons of the Belarusian national movement”, such as destroyed by fascist accomplice Vaclav Ivanovsky (brother of Jozseff Pilsudski’s associate) in 1943, who in the 1920 years provided the “academicism” of the popularization of the population. who collaborated with the special services of the Nazis, pre-war Poland and the Home Army.

This is equivalent to the rejection of state ideology and the course, which Alexander Lukashenko followed for a decade and a half. Those who do this, working under the wing of the Presidential Administration of the Republic of Belarus, threaten the results of the national referendum, the sovereignty and symbolism of Belarus. It all started "innocently" - with revision 1812 of the year. BNR resuscitation is the next step, meaning that everything was different from the 1918 year. Including the 1939 events of the year: if they were not Reunion, then the starting point of the current Belarusian statehood and territorial integrity disappears. If the Soviet partisans are "bad guys", then the war was not the Great Patriotic War, and its real heroes are AKovtsy, OUNovtsy and Nazi dregs like Ivanovsky.

REGNUM: How and why can this happen on the Belarusian land?

Nothing fundamentally new is happening. An explanation of the motivation of the skirmishers of innovative-revisionist theories can be found in Fyodor Dostoevsky's novel “Demons”, where he, reflecting on “troubled times”, writes: “Meanwhile, the meanest little people got an advantage, and began to loudly criticize everything sacred, then before the mouth they didn’t open, but the first people, who had been holding the upper hand until then, suddenly began to listen to them, but to keep quiet; others were teasing them in the most disgraceful manner. "

Belarusian society is going through hard times: economic upheavals, social, spiritual crisis, etc. In this situation, as usual, an environment appears in which they feel at ease, as Dostoevsky, “scum” and their “advanced” noted in The Possessed. They see each other from afar, hundreds of kilometers for them is not a distance. Soon, Neobanderovtsy will hold a festival "Bandershtat" in Lutsk - invited their brothers in mind from Belarus. At the same time, in Warsaw, other local natives will be discussing with Belarusians, representatives of either Belarus, or Litvinov, or Poles, with neoAAK members.

After a very short time, if more attention is paid to the “Belarusian question” in the West, we will get a situation similar to that in Western Ukraine with all the ensuing consequences. A joint alternative to this scenario can be offered by representatives of the public and the state. However, on the part of officials is not observed understanding of what is happening.
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  1. Bokdan1700
    Bokdan1700 29 June 2013 15: 09
    10
    While A.G. Lukashenko is alive, there will be no revision of history in Belarus!
    1. Ruslan_F38
      Ruslan_F38 29 June 2013 17: 56
      +6
      Exactly - under Lukashenka, such a development of events is impossible. He is a real master and a patriot of his country - he will quickly put everyone in their place. Putin would be tough and straightforward. I hope that as in the article of the same name on VO "Putin's toughest speech has not yet been uttered."
      1. Vadivak
        Vadivak 29 June 2013 23: 05
        +3
        Quote: Ruslan_F38
        That's right - under Lukashenko, such a development is impossible

        And the author does not exaggerate, there are enough fools
        We came to this holiday ... Oh, tragedy! "

        http://video.sibnet.ru/video1082644-_34_Myi_priehali_na_etot_prazdnik__Oy__trage
        diyu_34 _____ /
    2. valokordin
      valokordin 29 June 2013 18: 48
      +5
      Quote: Bokdan1700
      While A.G. Lukashenko is alive, there will be no revision of history in Belarus!

      Glory to the old man and shame on shit!
    3. smile
      smile 29 June 2013 19: 05
      +2
      Bokdan
      this . perhaps so. In principle, it is his opponents who are trying to reconsider the story, moreover, by the same methodology that was successfully used in Ukraine, in the Baltic States and everywhere else, even the cliches are used the same as simple instructors from the same offices. But all the same, you can’t underestimate these matters, because something they get even with the Old Man, for example, absolutely idiotic bullshit began to gather supporters about that. that Belarusians, as a nation, took shape not at the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th century, but in ancient times and were called Litvins earlier (and they say that the Lithuanians have nothing to do with the Grand Duchy of Lithuania). Moreover, I personally did not see any opposition on the part of the authorities - the topic is being jammed and no one publicly exposes these pseudo-historians-provocateurs.
      One gets the impression that they, having seen that nothing came of them with a cavalry charge (like in the Baltic states and Ukraine), they went on to a long siege ... some water wears away the stone and I must admit, something they get .... it's great alarming.
      By the way, this is greatly facilitated by the fact that during each of our squabbles with Belarus because of gas or something else (in theory this is a common thing, relatives in the family sometimes swear), the old man spoke on local television and described us, in bad terms, in expressions I was not shy, I even said something about cooperation with the European Union in spite of us (I heard it myself). Of course. after a sharp increase in the dollar exchange rate, he doesn’t say that anymore, but it has sunk into many souls .... at least in Grodno (my stepfather’s apartment is there, and we sometimes go there) I heard such speeches from Belarusians .... I will repeat - I’m worried.
    4. The comment was deleted.
  2. andrei332809
    andrei332809 29 June 2013 15: 28
    +1
    I think the Old Man with his scribes will quickly figure it out. and to pshekam, and to the whole of Europe it’s popularly explained that it’s better not to anger partisans
  3. deputy ___ watered
    deputy ___ watered 29 June 2013 15: 37
    +3
    To be honest, a lot was wrong, the main line of teaching history in the USSR was close to the truth. At one time, while studying at the courses "Shot", I heard a story from a former PMC of one of the armies stationed on the territory of the Byelorussian SSR. On the eve of Victory Day, the widow of one of the partisans was invited to one of the tank units. When she was asked the question: "How did you live under the Germans?", She replied: "Bad. The Germans will come and rob, the partisans will come and rob. Thanks to the Red Army, otherwise they would not last long!"
    1. sergey32
      sergey32 29 June 2013 17: 09
      +5
      But how will the partisans survive without the support of the local population?
      My wife's grandfather partisan near Bryansk. He told me that everyone was hungry. Someone voluntarily supported the partisans with products, some had to be helped to make the right choice. But they did not touch the families of partisans and Red Army soldiers, it was already more difficult for them than others. In addition, there were partisan republics in the Bryansk region, where Soviet power operated, collective farms and local industry worked.
  4. Owl
    Owl 29 June 2013 15: 39
    +4
    Ideological "artillery preparation" for the attack on the sovereignty of Belarus. The inhabitants of the USSR felt the ideological preparation ("perestroika", "glasnost") and then saw the "offensive" (events in the Caucasus and Central Asia, events in the Baltic states, August 1991), only to do something to preserve the Motherland (USSR) turned out to be impossible (the results of the referendum turned out to be a drop, a tear, which did not affect anything), I would like to hope for a firm and tough eradication of all enemy propaganda on the Belarusian soil.
  5. Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 29 June 2013 15: 43
    +3
    I am sure that in Belarus, the intrigues of the undead bastards will receive a tough rebuff from the people who have lost every fifth life in the fight against fascism. Of course, these bastards will howl about the "illegal" actions of the Belarusian partisans, bring their disgusting "arguments", but the people will not be deceived. Only young Belarusians cannot be left out of sight. Western bastards can powder their brains. So, there is only one truth: to take care of the young generation, and tell him the truth about the war.
  6. knn54
    knn54 29 June 2013 16: 00
    +7
    -So far, however, they are trying to find out who is more "heroic" - AK or OUN members. There are also Lithuanian "forest brothers".
    And where did the army (guard) of Ludov and the battalions clap?
    Until we (the fraternal republics) recognize ourselves as a single Russian world, with one history, religion and, practically, one language, we do not UNITE, we will be beaten one by one by our geopolitical opponents and our "shape-shifters." It will be too late when Russophobia and small-town chauvinism become an element of the official ideology or the RULING mood in Ukrainian / Belarusian society. After all, the USSR fell because, FIRST OF ALL, it was defeated on the ideological front.
  7. lexalex
    lexalex 29 June 2013 16: 09
    +1
    The second article in a row on the topic - "Lukashenka's turd". But the first one was rougher .... And the comments on it were more frank. This one is more cunning, but the topic is the same ... I'm waiting for the third, fourth, etc. I wonder how much paid in advance wink
    1. German
      German 30 June 2013 07: 30
      0
      I don’t understand why minusanuli lexalex (a) - did he speak correctly?
      1. 1goose3
        1goose3 30 June 2013 19: 01
        -1
        Well, crap. And the site is missing, it seems.
  8. krez-74
    krez-74 29 June 2013 16: 14
    +2
    I wish Lukashenko good health!
    1. Renat
      Renat 29 June 2013 20: 58
      0
      I agree with you, dad well done. Many thanks to the Belarusian partisans. Thanks to them, including, Churchill did not dare to attack the Union after the Second World War, fearing a guerrilla war. And these so-called liberators of Ukraine burned in the furnaces of their own countrymen and there is no excuse for them. No, and never will be.
  9. Corsair5912
    Corsair5912 29 June 2013 16: 21
    +2
    For almost a century the USSR opposed the forces of world Evil and Darkness. Now there is no USSR and Darkness is approaching the planet.
    I will not list the opposing forces, just call them the forces of Light and Darkness.
    In the territory of the former USSR, there is a war between the forces of Light and Darkness for the souls of people.
    The forces of Darkness, defeated in the middle of the 20 century, are trying to take revenge.
    All the means of Darkness and Evil were launched, bribery, blackmail, flattery, slander, distortion of facts.
    If Darkness conquers, the world will again enter the era of bloody wars and unrest.
    The Great Power kept the world,
    Darkness tamed, like "Night Watch",
    Glory smiled to fathers and grandfathers,
    And we are threatened with dishonor and shame.
  10. fzr1000
    fzr1000 29 June 2013 16: 24
    +2
    What strange is written. I can’t believe that this is happening in Belarus, and the authorities are looking at this through their fingers.
    1. Constantine
      Constantine 29 June 2013 17: 31
      +2
      So similar work is carried out in the Russian Federation. You can even meet some adherents of similar theories. However, I suspect that in both the Russian Federation and the Republic of Belarus this topic will, as a result, fail.
    2. smile
      smile 29 June 2013 19: 13
      0
      fzr1000
      I confirm it is happening. But, of course, in the article everything is slightly hyperbolized ... but. unfortunately not too much.
      Constantine rightly says - such a systematic sequential work was carried out everywhere, including ours. Out. look at the top of the swamp — the same speech. And I, too, am sure that cardinal shifts in this direction will not occur with the butt.
    3. German
      German 30 June 2013 07: 34
      +1
      I also don’t believe that Belarusians are capable of such a thing, but scum is everywhere ... I think "but father" will not let them raise their heads!
    4. vBR
      vBR 30 June 2013 21: 25
      0
      This requires special people, texts and breaking the enemy in the media, publicly, and convincingly. I also doubted that the "enemies" were so strong there (or rather, I did not notice this when I was there). On the other hand, it is unlikely that the facts given by Comrade. Malishevsky are fantastic. Supporters of Lukashenka’s policy are not particularly concerned, everything seems to be concrete, they don’t see the need for constant battles with such renegades. So the fate of the Soviet system, the potential (and numerous) defenders of which turned out to be paralyzed and simply unprepared, is alarming.
  11. ebrd
    ebrd 29 June 2013 16: 59
    +4
    In Belarus, there’s an inconspicuous heroization .... of Polish AK members and Ukrainian OUN members ???? Author, are you out of your mind? I live in Belarus, we don’t have anything like that, and you, the author , let me ask you where you live?
    1. Very old
      Very old 29 June 2013 18: 41
      +2
      Yes, there is, CONON, there is. Maybe, just articles on my eyes did not come across.
  12. Constantine
    Constantine 29 June 2013 17: 29
    0
    I agree that dad will figure it out quickly, but the main process goes unnoticed, via the Internet, parties, etc. + subversive activities among senior officials. Many wealthy Belarusians can be found in Vilnius, a city where a Soviet steam locomotive with several carriages stands on the way from the Belarusian border. The very ones on which the "green brothers" were taken to where they belong - to Siberia. The branch of the Belarusian University is located in Vilnius, the bulk of the city's expensive cars are on Belarusian license plates, from which we can conclude that the Belarusians are actively involved in activities there, and, accordingly, come into contact with the local "elite", and in some cases known to me personally, they teach in Lithuanian children and get them and themselves residence permits. Note that it is not so easy to obtain a residence permit in Lithuania. Work on reflashing the Belarusians is already underway. Somewhere it is obvious, but somewhere not. It is necessary to somehow quickly inform Lukashenka that it is time to pay special attention to this issue.
    1. smile
      smile 29 June 2013 19: 24
      +7
      Constantine
      I confirm. My stepfather is a Belorus, he lives, naturally, in Klaipeda, but he is a business joint with Belarusians. Lithuanians are very active in working with Belarusians and in Belarus .... Lithuanian enterprises. working with Belarusians receive significant preferences. Next-Free trips, free student training, courses, seminars, training in disobedience stocks and total massive indoctrination, teachers besides Lithuanians are Americans, Poles are Georgians. Ukrainians, British. Belarusians are accustomed to that. that they are not Russian. or rather, not a kindred nation, but native Europeans, who have nothing in common with the Russians. Underestimate and rest on our laurels, hoping for a dad here you can’t, we get better, or rather, jump!
    2. vBR
      vBR 30 June 2013 21: 37
      +1
      Absolutely agree. When the hegemony is lost and suddenly the "people" (in fact, a handful of impostors who speak on their behalf, but are active) begins to demand a turn "towards civilization", it is much harder to act. And the population will not even come out to support, for the majority, the deactivation firmware is sufficient (such as cheated the bastard with chocolate). Everything has already been studied, laid out, books written. Why will neither S. Kara-Murza nor S. Kurginyan be summoned for consultation?
  13. 128mgb
    128mgb 29 June 2013 18: 38
    +1
    Quote: Corsair5912

    The Great Power kept the world,
    Darkness tamed, like "Night Watch",
    Glory smiled to fathers and grandfathers,

    We still keep it in our souls. I’m not a rhyming machine, but I think it’s better. Article provocation and 2nd already, one to one.
  14. individual
    individual 29 June 2013 19: 01
    +4
    History has no subjunctive mood.
    For HISTORY if not exist.
    Russia also had its counterfeiters, who remembers them? (Roy Medvedev, Dm. Volkogonov, Yur.Afanasyev).
    The authorities allowed, and the anti-statesmen "made their own history."
    So in Poland, Ukraine and Belarus they will get sick with the childhood "measles" of becoming, and the holy truth will rise above the dirty slander of enemy ideological propaganda.
    1. German
      German 30 June 2013 07: 38
      +1
      Why, in Ukraine, the process of this "disease" has dragged on. and the further, the worse ...
  15. Minsk
    Minsk 29 June 2013 19: 02
    +6
    I live in Minsk and have not even heard of such a thing. Maybe somewhere in the cellars, at night, in the light of Ilyich’s bulb, something similar happens, but this is not known to a simple undemocratic people.
    1. vBR
      vBR 30 June 2013 21: 42
      +1
      Yes, the majority of the population of the USSR did not suspect anything like that either. This, of course, is not through official TV channels or newspapers. The main thing is that the authorities should not be bothered, as they wrote here, and slowly began a conversation about what to fight with and what is it that is actually bad
    2. Genur
      Genur 30 June 2013 23: 10
      +1
      I am joining. I live almost constantly in Minsk. Those who protest with envy at Russian businessmen (thieves) are protesting against the existing order. The dad does not let the rogue roam. I agree with the proposal to Putin - to be firmer.
  16. GBG_Belarus
    GBG_Belarus 29 June 2013 19: 18
    +4
    What nonsense, I live in Minsk, this has never happened before, and I hope it never will be. What kind of author is this, such a deceitful x-no never heard how to lie like that.
    1. smile
      smile 29 June 2013 20: 07
      +2
      GBG_Belarus

      Minsk

      Guys, you don’t beat me, but personally I am pleased to hear your indignation. This means - But Pasaran! ... They will not pass! ... I hope that you will not argue that the fifth office is formed by the same offices as ours? And do not swear at the author. I just really would not want the efforts to separate us from each other (can I say that?) be crowned with success. so he beats the alarm at the slightest stirring in this area ...
  17. okean969
    okean969 29 June 2013 19: 47
    +5
    In my opinion, it is also some kind of provocation, for the first time I read such nonsense (I live in Belarus) Russians do not worry, we cannot be "fooled"
    1. smile
      smile 29 June 2013 19: 59
      +2
      okean969
      God grant that. But personally, I heard similar speeches from the lips of Belarusians who came to Lithuania and Grodno, when I went there ... And here on the site quite often there are fans of the "Lithuanian" theory ... These are probably your analogues of our bog? It's still annoying, we are afraid that in the event of a change of power, you will follow the path of Ukraine ...
  18. porevith
    porevith 29 June 2013 20: 16
    +1
    C'mon, Belarusians don’t panic like that, they’re probably tired of writing about Ukraine and the UPA, so they decided to remember about you. then get used to it. I’m waiting for an article about the army of General VLASOV in Russia and about his 800 thousandth (according to Wikipedia) Russian Liberation Army (ROA).
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 29 June 2013 20: 27
      +1
      Well, it’s about the Ukrainians again.
      1. porevith
        porevith 29 June 2013 20: 47
        -1
        you read Wikipedia wise guy, since so smart.
        1. smile
          smile 29 June 2013 21: 33
          +1
          porevith
          Adorable !!!! Your level of development is immediately visible ... a fool ... to refer to pedagogy ... :))) but you are not even able to understand what is written in it ... you, our unfortunate one, must start with the primer ... or a Chukchi writer, not a reader .. and there will be no article about the 800 thousandth ROA because too blatant lies are cut off by administrators. so as not to disgrace the image of the site - after all, the number of ROA did not exceed 30 thousand ... and there were less than 60 thousand Russian traitors, with weapons in their hands, including policemen ... there were about 300 thousand more "ChiVi" of all nationalities - unarmed sappers and chauffeurs. most of whom fled at the first opportunity ... the rest of the traitors are people of other nationalities. including a significant part were comrades Bandera. who served dad Hitler in the field of destroying their people, not for fear. but for conscience .... although to whom am I saying this ... to the one who refers to absolutely ideologized, like the "Short Course", pedagogy? And even that is not able to understand .... to be honest, it's nice when it turns out that such flawed people adhere to such views ... well, like you ... because it turns out that all reasonable ones are ours! :))))))
          1. porevith
            porevith 30 June 2013 11: 55
            0
            Well, of course, immediately insults in inferiority, as one would expect. And of course, on Wikipedia, only nonsense is written by everyone. and not only in it there are a lot of sites) Where are links to more than 20 authors. And the documents Or maybe you are flawed since you can’t read more than you studied at school ??? Or have you already forgotten the letters ??? And I thought that on the site they write the truth, even bitter, And if in VIKI deny the lie so, with the same data as in it. or weak ??? (USSR textbooks do not roll)))))) But the traitors were everywhere and in Ukraine, Russia and Belarus, etc. And don’t forget and redo the story. But somehow it’s not good, they betrayed EVERYTHING, and now the Russians have nothing to do with it. as it smells like CHauvinism. (if you know, of course, what it means)
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 30 June 2013 12: 06
              0
              And you read your Wikipedia yourself. There, in the article about ROA, every third surname is Ukrainian. Who was the commander of the 1st Infantry Division? Is it Buyanchenko?

            2. smile
              smile 30 June 2013 16: 19
              0
              porevith
              Your one statement about the 800 thousandth ROA crosses out all your further attempts to break off and get out. Probably. you, too, understand the whole flaw of your position and that is why hysterical notes slip in your commentary. :))))
              On the site they write different things, one here is no-impudent total lie like fabrications of cutters. bunny. corned and different neo-fascist henchmen like Bandera.
              You are absolutely right - there is no need to rewrite history - therefore do not lie, please. If you really read my comment, you noticed that I not only did not deny the presence of traitors. but even called the approximate number of ROA (slightly overestimated :)))), the approximate total number (+ -a couple of thousand) Russians who fought against their people. And it’s not my fault that more non-Russian people fought for the Nazis. At the same time, I just stated a fact. You attributed everything else to me in a miserable attempt to dodge and get off the kukan, which you sat on your own free will. no need to brazenly lie. And I don't care. one hundred pushed you to a lie. Fact is fact. If you really want me to completely smear you (I — I don’t wish — I’m too lazy to waste time on you), please justify what you have gleaned from you, according to your own words. in the most honest pedagogy, the number of ROA is 800 thousand people.
              And yet, I called a spade a spade because you are more than that. that brazenly lying. so you are also trying to ascribe to Lopatov your sin-stupidity and ignorance. :))) and at the same time refer to pedagogy !!!! A masterpiece! So, I look forward to hearing from you that 800 thousand people served in the ROA - and do not dodge - it is this number and it is the ROA.
              Pakeda babanyka! :))))
      2. NUT
        NUT 1 July 2013 02: 50
        0
        Quote: Spade
        Well, it’s about Ukrainians again
        There are two dogs on the Ukraine-Belarus border:
        Belorussian - healthy, strong, well-fed; Ukrainian - sick, lame, hungry, toothless, flea-rich, in lichens, in repyakh;
        BY- Oh, priests, what happened?
        UA- Nothing, our life is like that.
        BY- So come live with us.
        UA has passed ...
        Meet in a year somewhere near Komarin. You can’t recognize Ukrainian - you put in your teeth, is well-groomed, healthy, well-fed, your hair is shiny.
        BY- Hello, friend, are you going far?
        UA- I'm leaving back.
        BY- So what do you feel bad with us?
        UA- Yes, everything is good, quiet, warm, satisfying, healthy, but they don’t give a bark ...
  19. Luna
    Luna 29 June 2013 20: 37
    +1
    Quote: Bokdan1700
    While A.G. Lukashenko is alive, there will be no revision of history in Belarus!


    I didn’t understand, but with whom does it NOW happen?
  20. The comment was deleted.
  21. Lukich
    Lukich 29 June 2013 20: 48
    +1
    Quote: okean969
    In my opinion, it is also some kind of provocation, for the first time I read such nonsense (I live in Belarus) Russians do not worry, we cannot be "fooled"


    ... I believe of course, but there is no smoke without fire - be careful, comrades Belarusians !!! ...
  22. George
    George 29 June 2013 21: 12
    +2
    Aliases: Don Miller http://lib.rus.ec/a/8261 and Jacques Pinault
    Born in 1944, in the family of a staff officer of Soviet military intelligence. In 1963-66 served in a separate reconnaissance and sabotage battalion of the 7-th tank army. In 1967-75 participated in 11 operations conducted by GRU special forces in various regions of the world. He has several government awards.
    In 1972, A.E. Taras graduated from the philosophical department of the University of Minsk; at 1979 - the Academy of Pedagogical Sciences in Moscow. In the same year he defended his thesis on crime of adolescents and youth. Then he worked for a number of years at a research institute, where he conducted research in the field of socio-psychological problems of crime. In parallel, he served as a freelance inspector of the criminal investigation department. For successful work in this field, he received several awards from the leadership of the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
    Since 1984, A.E. Taras has been engaged in applied psychology in the framework of projects carried out by orders of the USSR Ministry of Defense. At the same time, he taught management psychology at the Institute for Advanced Training of Leading Cadres of Belarus, and also carried out promotional work at the enterprises of the military-industrial complex. Since 1991, he has been exclusively engaged in editorial and publishing activities. Anatoly Taras has written over 80 books on psychology, technology, martial arts and Belarusian history.
    AE Taras repeatedly took training courses with instructors in hand-to-hand combat of special units of military intelligence. One year was a student of the Vietnamese master, captain Nguyen Zyang from the special forces of the VNA "Dak Kong". For several years he taught in Minsk with groups of adults who studied self-defense techniques. Since 1993, he has been systematically conducting seminars for self-defense and hand-to-hand combat instructors. Since January 1992 has been publishing the Kempo martial arts magazine, which is very popular in the CIS and Baltic countries. In addition, he writes books on self-defense and traditional martial arts.
    According to the author himself, before the 2004 of the year on Belarusian history, he had no idea at all. The concept appeared when Anatoly Taras ordered one Moscow writer a book about Moscow-Polish relations. After receiving the manuscript, Anatoly Taras refused the author and decided to rewrite the book himself: he went around the libraries, read the materials, thought - and as a result, in the 2006, he issued "Wars of Muscovite Rus with the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and the Commonwealth in the 18th-20th centuries", and in 2008-m - ““ The Anatomy of Hate. Russian-Polish conflicts in the XVIII-XX centuries. " Later, Anatoly Taras was the compiler and editor of the collection “History of Imperial Relations: Belarusians and Russians. 1772-1991 years. " Anatoly Taras admits that he does not cite any reasoned studies in his books, he only summarizes what he read from other authors and sets out the version that seems to him the most truthful.

    The author of more than 80 books. And in all he expounds what he read from others?
    For all the books I won’t say, I read only two
    "Fighting machine" and "Preparation of a soldier of SMERSH", and what can I say - a lot of material, only copied from other people's books.
    PS: Can also do writing activities? what
  23. My doctor
    My doctor 29 June 2013 23: 10
    -1
    The article is provocative.
  24. Al. Seme
    Al. Seme 30 June 2013 00: 17
    +1
    Interesting comments. Everyone knows where and when the Belarusians came as an ethnic group. I know what happened during the war of 1812. and World War 2. I live in Belarus Brest, and all my ancestors lived in this territory for hundreds of years. So, the city in which I live for a while was called Brest-Litovsk. There are many villages and villages in the Republic of Belarus with the name Litvins. Who am I by nationality? Definitely not Russian (the mentality is different). Now we are called Belarusians, but not Russian. And my ancestors were never Russian. As for the war, for my grandfathers and grandmothers it started in 1939, they lived near Brest. And in 1939 there was a heroic defense of the Brest Fortress (for reference, when it was built in the 19th century, the city of Brest was moved (read, destroyed) for several kilometers. And the city was mentioned from 1019. And for what the fortress was not built on the borders of the Russian Empire, was the Kingdom of Poland west of the empire? Probably out of great love for the Litvinians of Belarus.) And what if the relatives served in the Polish army? And there was a continuation of the war in 1941. Both Poles and Ukrainians came, there was everything. And the Germans behaved differently. And partisans for food my mother’s family put several times to the wall. My grandfather told all this (I don’t retell the details, they can be subjective, and many will not like it). And the mother is alive and told how these same guerrillas came to their lessons in high school to talk about spilled blood for their homeland, although they robbed more than their own. Well, so that you do not say that the war did not affect us, my uncle died in Poland on January 30, 1945. He wrote all this so that it was clear that Belarusians did not want to be either younger or older brothers, but with themselves the history that exists, and not with that which was written under the great princes of the Moscow principality and the tsars of the Russian Empire, etc. And if it’s very interesting to talk about the rewriting of history, then go in for the civil war in Russia and see how your opinion about white and red changes. Belarusians study history in a new way, because there was such an opportunity, and we don’t have imperial ambitions, there is a desire to learn about our history and not only from Russian textbooks. And honestly, I do not care how it is perceived in other states. And, you know, most Western Belarusians want to live in Europe.
    I wrote to stop Belarusians from perceiving as some kind of younger brother and think that without an older one we are blind kittens. That you need to start to change. Start small: correctly call our country - Belarus, not Belarus.
    1. Igarr
      Igarr 30 June 2013 06: 37
      +1
      Sailed ... read:
      "..And, you know, most western Belarusians want to live ... "
      Of course they want. Moreover, they want it well ... and they want it well.
      But the northern Belarusians want to live in Lithuania and Latvia and in the Smolensk region.
      And the eastern ones - in Russia and Ukraine.
      And the South - in Ukraine.
      And the northwest - in the northwest.
      And Pinsk - in Pinsk.
      ...
      I'll tell you a secret. There are also central south-east and north-north-south-west.
      Understand?
      ..
      ".. yes, and we have no imperial ambitions, .." - that's why you start the story on a new to study.
      So here. In Russia, there are imperial ambitions. Therefore - having succumbed to the satiety ... of a new study of history - we return to the traditional, proven history.
      And here, no need to be seven spans in the forehead - ... the empire will be reborn. And Belarus will be a very substantial part there.
      Although I prefer the term - Power.
      ...
      So ... study the story. In a new way, in a supernova. In the north. In the south.
    2. smile
      smile 30 June 2013 16: 45
      +2
      Al. Seme


      Thank you for the honest presentation of views. I am particularly interested in reading them because my grandmother is Polish and her father. uncles are legionaries. who received land near Vilna in the 20s ... until 17 I lived in Lithuania ..... well. you get it, huh?
      I will not argue with you - and there is no time and desire. but I cannot say one thing - I have not seen a single nationalist of any country who would selflessly prove his belonging to another, not the most successful nation (I mean the Lithuanians), would boast that he was forcibly polonized ... get rid of your roots .... be proud - "new litvins" are the most unique people on the planet ... You know. Lithuanians can be understood and respected - the new Lithuanians cause a pitiful disgust ... by the way. the Lithuanians, too :))))
      And yet, I hope you have not forgotten that the Russian people were called Litvin by everyone who lived on the territory of the GDL, as in the West, by everyone who is called Russian by Russia. But none of the nationalities living in Russia abandon their roots ... unlike you ... :))) Also you have not forgotten, I hope that initially the top of the aristocracy of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania were entirely Lithuanians .... this was later to the age of 15- 16 Poles polonized everyone and everyone began to consider themselves Poles ...
      In general, congratulations! :)))
      You are a vivid illustration of the fact that the article is not a provocation or delirium. Hey, comrades Belarusians from above, read what a compatriot writes, and then swear at the author. :)))

      Yeah. according to the rules of the Russian language, Belarus is called Belarus, and in no other way ... we don’t get into order and you start small - chop it on your nose, don’t have to teach us, first learn yourself. There, on the nose, scratch the postulate - people who are abandoning their roots will be forgotten.
    3. vBR
      vBR 30 June 2013 23: 15
      0
      Quote: Al.Seme
      Interesting comments. Everyone knows where and when the Belarusians came as an ethnic group. I know what happened during the war of 1812. and World War 2. I live in Belarus Brest, and all my ancestors lived in this territory for hundreds of years. So, the city in which I live for a while was called Brest-Litovsk. There are many villages and villages in the Republic of Belarus with the name Litvins. Who am I by nationality? Definitely not Russian (the mentality is different).


      I doubt that not only everyone, but you also know where the Belarusians came from as an ethnic group. This is a projection of modern self-understanding onto the past. As an analyst on these issues, I tell you that this is not at all the case. Ethnic self-awareness in its modern form is a recent product that began to take shape at the decline of the Romanov empire and continued - but in a russocentric way - into the Soviet period, with the prevailing general Soviet loyalty. In the 1914 census, peasants from the vicinity of Brest answered the question of self-identification with the “most immediate” ones, divided into “Polish” and “Russian” faiths. So your self-identification is a stratification from all previous projects of nation-building and their confrontation, which were waged by the Poles (the first in time), the tsarist administration, the Soviet regime, and modern actors. But this foundation is not eternal, but reinterpreted every day. There is no talk of any hundreds of years. Well, your self-identification - there is no dispute about it, ethnicity is determined by it. Only the concept of "people's mentality" in real science has long been thrown into the dustbin, it simply does not exist, but there are general cultural ideas. Well this is for reference.

      Quote: Al.Seme
      Now we are called Belarusians, but not Russian. And my ancestors were never Russian ... Probably from a lot of love for Litvinians of Belarus.)


      It is time to move away from primitive interpretations that do not reflect reality, to describe all the actions of the tsarist administration as if they allegedly had the motivation to specifically oppress, and even more so, to anger someone specially. Not before that. In science, the population of the western outskirts of the empire is called Rusyns; several national construction projects collided there - Polish, Russian and Lithuanian, supported by the tsarist administration as opposed to very strong Polish.

      Quote: Al.Seme
      And what if relatives served in the Polish army? And there was a continuation of the war in 1941. Both Poles and Ukrainians came, there was everything. And the Germans behaved differently. ... which is, and not with that which was written under the great princes of the Moscow principality and the tsars of the Russian Empire, etc.


      How to be. Well, during the war of 20, the Western Belarusian lands were transferred to Poland by Pilsudski, so what? Do you propose that in modern Belarus - to the greatest extent among all those that have preserved the Soviet genotype - your ancestors should be honored as a soldier of the valiant Polish army? This will happen only when the streets will be renamed on September 17 in a hundred settlements. In my opinion, it is enough that you are not personally remembered for this, there is absolutely no fault of yours. Well, "in different ways", here we are not talking about who will or will not give the chocolate - there was a struggle between socio-cultural systems, and to the death. Here it is necessary somehow not only to make a start from individual experience. And ask yourself the question, what would you personally work for - not in paradise with good fairies - but in an absolutely real and definite historical situation. Your grandfather made a choice during the war, and you took up false weights from a well-fed far away, you think that you will establish the "truth"
  25. Luna
    Luna 30 June 2013 00: 49
    +1
    Quote: Al.Seme

    Well, finally, and rightly, none of the Belarusians had ever heard anything, had not seen, and did not know WHAT was cultivated in the estate of the magnificent Old Man. With his tacit consent.
    If Russia stumbles, he himself will lead the movement "away from Moscow!" so much so that Ukraine breaks down with envy.

    "" "Since 1991, a whole generation of young people has grown up, which no longer thinks by the criteria of all-Russian unity and takes the independence of Belarus for granted. In Belarus, all schools in cities are Russian-speaking, but not Russian. But there are more and more Polish schools. and in Ukraine, in Belarus, there are practically no pro-Russian parties. The penetration of Polish capital is increasing. Pro-Polish-oriented Belarusian citizens are employed in firms and organizations owned by Poles. The spread of pro-Polish sentiments receives solid financial support. The website “Idea of ​​a New Rzeczpospolita. Living Together - our destiny! "
    However, it is much more serious that the movement in this direction is already taking place in Belarusian state structures. The ministries of culture, education, to a large extent - sports and tourism, information, state media in one way or another actively promote the period of the Commonwealth and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, calling it the "golden age" of Belarus. There is also a place for the cultivation of Russophobia, Russia is declared the culprit of the numerous destructions and extermination of the population on the Belarusian lands during the numerous Russian-Polish wars. So, Ministry of Culture of Belarus The program “Castles of Belarus” was adopted, aimed at restoring castles of the Polish gentry, which, on the basis of the geographical principle of residence, is declared Belarusian. All kinds of festivals and events in the polonized style are organized in the castles. A separate issue is the tonality of excursions that take place in these castles. In the stories of the guides, Belarus is no longer the country of Khatyn and the Brest Fortress, now it is the country of the Polish gentry and Polish kings!
    With the direct support of the Belarusian authorities stage performances in the Radziwill castle were resumed, and the standard of the 27th regiment of Lancers of the Polish Army was solemnly established in the Nesvizh Town Hall. Polish memorials are being restored throughout Belarus. Monuments are actively being erected to figures of the period of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and the Commonwealth - in Vitebsk, for example, in the near future they are going to erect a monument to Prince Olgerd, despite public protests that reject the anti-Russian motive for this action. One of the principles state broadcasting in Belarus, a long time ago there was a circulation of cultural programs that nurture the moods that oppose Belarusians to Russians. In fact, such television programs are broadcast on all Belarusian state channels. Thus, the Belteleradiocompany’s television news agency project “Belorussia Land” focused on explaining the differences between Belarusians and the Russian people, tales of the nobility, churches, and Catholic shrines. A similar special project, “Belarusian Gentry. From the section [refers to the sections of the Commonwealth. - AP] before analysis [meaning the confirmation by the gentry of their belonging to the noble estate of the Russian Empire. - A.P.]. ” But such explicit remarks are heard on the STV Minsk channel in the program “New Travels of the Amateur”.
    http://www.fondsk.ru/news/2013/06/28/chetvertaya-rech-pospolitaja-21310.html
    1. Dimanolog
      Dimanolog 30 June 2013 04: 44
      0
      And what's wrong with the monument to Olgerd?
      He is also present at the 1000th Anniversary of Russia monument in Veliky Novgorod.
    2. Flash_96
      Flash_96 30 June 2013 09: 27
      +1
      And who prevents the Belarusian brothers from telling their children the true story of the Second World War, as well as everything else, sensible people will not watch such husk, nor even explain to their descendants !!! By the way, the Poles consider the Belarusians and Ukrainians to be a little inhuman and nicknames : by d about, etc.
      1. Al. Seme
        Al. Seme 30 June 2013 11: 16
        -1
        But what is the real story? Have you communicated with at least one Pole at the household level? They are not as bad as the history books say. And do not oppose us. Ordinary people have nothing to share, neither with the Poles, nor with the Russians. I didn’t write about this, but that different historical events are perceived by each nation differently. By the way, Belarusians lived with the Poles in the same state more than with the Russians. Everything is very simple: he who controls history controls the future.
        1. smile
          smile 30 June 2013 17: 06
          +2
          Al. Seme
          I have in Katowice. Wroclaw and Krakow live by their grandmother's sister with a brood of children whose grandchildren began to appear. We communicate regularly. My grandmother (89) lives in Klaipeda ..... So for reference, they hate and are afraid of Russia, they hate Germans, despise Lithuanians, Czechs, doubly despise Ukrainians and Belarusians ... almost all the rarest exceptions are nice to Russians. otherwise everything. as I wrote above .... if briefly. :))) will you tell me good tales too? :))))
          You write correctly about ordinary people. but. perhaps there is no more politicized nation than the Poles.
          Yes. Russian people. the descendants of which in the 20th century became Belarusians. really. For a long time they were under the rule of the Poles, were subjected to violent polonization, they even tried to take their faith away. and having captured part of Belarus in 20’s, the Poles destroyed the national formation, carried out a rehabilitation policy, populated your land with besiegers. etc ... I must admit, something they have achieved, here you are a product of violent polonization. who is also proud of it. Wah !!!
          1. Al. Seme
            Al. Seme 1 July 2013 02: 16
            +2
            I wonder what kind of people lived on before the sections of the Commonwealth? Russians? By decree of Tsar Nicholas 1 in 1939, Litvinians (Belarusians) were forbidden to pray in their own language, all church literature in the Belarusian movable (including the Bible) was subject to burning, the Uniate faith was abolished, and Moscow-style Orthodoxy was planted in its place. The forceful imposition on my ancestors of the Moscow faith had the following goals: -fighting the European traditions of the Litvinians (Belarusians), primarily municipal (city) and district (district) self-government, which included the election of all three branches of government;
            - inculcation in Litvinians (Belarusians) of a monarch who is alien to them of deification of the power of the monarch and the formation of their attitude to the state as the highest value;
            -Replacement of the history of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and its church with the history of Muscovy and the Russian Orthodox Church;
            - the elimination of all of Litvin (Belarusian): language, culture, historical memory and, ultimately, mentality;
            - assimilation of Litvinians (Belarusians) into the Great Russian nationality. You can continue after 1917. Apparently the Russification of the Litvinians (Belarusians) is more useful to you than the Polonization-imperial ways. Russia has always treated us like a colony. And genetically, we are related to the Poles, and not with the Ugro-Finnish-Türkic substrate. The answer to your CVC.
            For reference: Brest received the Magdeburg Law in! 390
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 1 July 2013 10: 07
              0
              Quote: Al.Seme
              And genetically, we are related to the Poles, and not with the Ugro-Finnish substrate.

              Genetic studies are easily found in the public domain. Read, do not dishonor Belarusians. Suddenly, the people on the site will think that all are ignoramuses like you.
    3. gura
      gura 30 June 2013 14: 10
      -5
      From Minsk. Well, they can’t, Russian-speaking schools of Belarus are Russian, by definition! After all, American, Australian, and a whole bunch of other schools are not English! One language - countries are different, so are ours. And our history did not begin in 1812, and not in 1917, especially! And not only the Second World War and the defense of the Brest Fortress were in it! And Khatyn, burnt like thousands of others, was put forward in concert with Katyn! Cover up, mask the crimes of the NKVD! US President Nixon, visiting Khatyn, was sure that the fire burns at the site of the death of Polish officers! Name, from memory, at least one more burnt village in Belarus or in Russia! Does not work? And there are thousands of them! And here - a trickster .. there are Leninist-Stalinists! And Belarus is an independent state friendly to Russia, where millions of Slavs — Belarusians, Russians, Ukrainians, Poles and people of other nationalities — live quietly and live.
      1. smile
        smile 30 June 2013 17: 18
        0
        gura (1)
        Last summer, the European Court refused to satisfy the claim of the Poles against the Russian Federation by recognizing the documents. on the basis of which the Poles tried to prove our guilt-FALSIFICATION!
        Imagine. how many lies it was unavoidable that a biased European Court is forced to admit through clenched teeth that the Poles are lying! So all your pathos cat down the drain! :)))
        I recommend- Shvets "Katyn. Modern history of the issue" is one of the developers of our position in the court. The book is academic, but not dry. very informative, there are a lot of checked links ... and don't disgrace yourself anymore. :))))
        Your comment is a confirmation of that. that the author is right. The one who put in your gullible head a blatant lie about the execution in the Goat Mountains, the evil NKVD, etc. achieved your goal - despite the good ending you have already passed the first stage of processing.



        Thanks to the author once again - the statements of our Belarusian colleagues confirm every word up front!
        1. gura
          gura 30 June 2013 18: 28
          -4
          From Minsk. Dicked and disgraced. I haven’t read the seamstress-reaper — and I haven’t read the piper — I repent! But I read a collection of documents "State Security Bodies of the USSR in the Great Patriotic War." (Moscow, 1995) The editorial board was headed by the director of the FSB, Lieutenant-General S.V. Stepashin. Yes, the same, the current head of the Accounts Chamber. One of the documents is the minutes of the meeting of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the AUCPB dated March 5, 1940. (p. 156). This is the official decision of Stalin and his henchmen to destroy the Polish officers. On the next page - NKVD order No. 886 \ B to the head of the Prisoners of War Department P.K. Suprunenko on drawing up accurate lists of Polish officers held in Soviet camps. Then the report of the chairman of the KGB A.N. Shelepin Nikita Khrushchev from March 3, 1959 - executed in Katyn 4431, in the Starobelsk camp - 3820, in the Ostashkovsky camp - 6311, in other camps and prisons 7305. Publications are available. True, there is no Swiss-dude, but Stepashin S.V. became, if you remember, the prime minister of Russia. I don't think he concocted these documents. Please provide more accurate data on the "claim of the Poles to the European Court - to which one? When? Do not be lazy to read the documents, not the waste paper of the Swiss reapers."
          1. smile
            smile 30 June 2013 20: 23
            0
            gura
            It is in this collection that some of the documents are falsified. Moreover, which is especially piquant, some of these documents were submitted to the European Court ... and some of the documents appearing in the collection you indicated were published by the Poles (including photocopies) along with other materials on Katyn - and there were different , differing from each other versions of the same document ... :))) it’s exactly the falsifications that you met and were the reason for the denial of the lawsuit.
            I read this collection. Read and you Swede ... at least you will know. why the provocative version of our involvement in the execution of Polish war criminals, besiegers, gendarmes and other Polish military personnel failed. which. By the way, since November 39, I was at war with us ...
            Regarding the method of falsification and to familiarize yourself with the Polish official position, you can read Mukhin's "Anti-Russian meanness" ... personally, I do not like those. that he swears a lot, is overly categorical and does not dare to call his book a scientific work. but the method of falsification. He reveals its features and the position of the Poles very well.
            I repeat - this is a piece of paper. which you shake here is recognized as fake! And by whom? The European Court! ... :)))) Well, what, pathetics diminished?
            I am able to work with documents and basically build my opinion on them.
            Admit. Now to argue with you, I now simply do not have the strength — if interested, read the book. this is a serious historian and there really is a mass of documents and I repeat, links to documents ... if you wish, next weekend I can push you against the wall, and this will not be my merit, but the merit of our historians. including Shvets, who proved that we didn’t shoot the Poles, but now, fire me, copy something and leave the site ...
            at the same time, you can snag photocopies of your piece of paper on the internet ... be surprised to find 3 or 4 options that differ in design, used by Poles at different times ...
            And the last thing - your "document" does not say a word about the execution. is not it?:))))
            1. gura
              gura 30 June 2013 23: 07
              -2
              You are an interesting, albeit common type, polemicist. They ask you - What European Court, there are several of them, when, from whom, from which Poles, what lawsuit - and in response - again Shvets. This is called - juggle cards. If you have an 8-volume edition published in the Russian Federation under the editorship of the Prime Minister of the Russian Federation, with a circulation of 20 copies. fake, stay where you were, i.e. at .....
              Without respect.
  26. Luna
    Luna 30 June 2013 11: 28
    +1
    Quote: Dimanolog
    And what's wrong with the monument to Olgerd?
    He is also present at the 1000th Anniversary of Russia monument in Veliky Novgorod.

    Present. Because during the internecine strife of Vladimir-Suzdal Rus "The Tver Grand Duke Mikhail Alexandrovich turned for help to the Lithuanian princes, who at that time already had great powers. The Lithuanian prince Olgerd besieged Moscow itself, which had just been surrounded by a new stone wall, but could not take it and went to Lithuania. And the Moscow troops then besieged Tver. In 1375, a peace was finally concluded between Tver and Moscow, according to which the Tver prince recognized himself as the "younger brother" of the Moscow prince and renounced all claims to the Great Vladimir reign. But hostility with Moscow remained with Lithuania even after peace with Tver.

    Do you understand how he is present there? By the way, Olgerd went to Moscow three times, burned to the ground three times.

    1. Olgerd is an aggressor, not a creator. He killed civilians, burned cities and villages, tortured prisoners, robbed churches. The meaning and main business of Olgerd’s whole life was war.

    3. Prince Olgerd has nothing to do with the Belarusian people. By its origin and culture, he is a Lithuanian pagan and, as a historical figure, belongs to the Lithuanian people. This is not our "hero."

    4. Olgerd is a cruel torturer of Christians.
    http://imperiya.by/authorsanalytics19-12460.html

    The fact that I am writing to Belarus is about how successful propaganda is going on in Belarus, while in Russia they are touched by the Old Man.
    By the way, in Vitebsk they asked to put a monument to Alexander Nevsky and Princess Olga, however ....

    http://регнум.рф/news/fd-abroad/belarus/1609471.html
    1. Dimanolog
      Dimanolog 30 June 2013 17: 07
      +2
      1. Internal wars were typical of that time, and attacking the Moscow principality does not equal attacking Russia.
      3. Prince Olgerd was married to the Belarusian princess Maria Yaroslavna. The lands of Belarus in those days were part of the ON. And he is not your leader, he is ours.
      4.Olgerd accepted Orthodoxy and the Orthodox name Alexander.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 30 June 2013 17: 14
        +1
        Quote: Dimanolog
        attack the Principality of Moscow is not equal to attack Russia

        Otherwise, the same Oleg Tversky would also have to be called the aggressor
  27. gura
    gura 30 June 2013 12: 17
    -2
    From Minsk. How will the Slav brothers not reach you that Belarus is a separate state from Russia. But the state is friendly, treating well its eastern neighbors. Who, seeing this, are actively buying real estate (cottages, apartments) from us, especially in the west of the country and in Minsk. They buy up in Belarus, not in Chechnya, they know where it is quieter, where it is possible to create a "reserve airfield". We have about a million ethnic Russians, and no one has ever singled them out as a special group. All of us are citizens of Belarus. Two state languages, the third in importance is Polish. We have a huge history in common with the Poles and Lithuanians. Burn the Pospolita, where we entered, - the second oldest "republic" of Europe, after Rome, many cities had the "Magdeburg right" (see the dictionary), therefore, in addition to the Second World War, which many are pushing here, we have other "spiritual bonds ". Similar to which your president is now actively looking for. And the article is a provocative fake, I don’t know why, now someone needed it.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 30 June 2013 17: 26
      +1
      Dear, do not you think that it hurts to simplify everything? Like smile.
      Here you are writing about the Rzeczpospolita. Do you know why this confederation appeared? Are you sure that the Grand Duchy of Lithuania ran into the arms of Poland from an excess of friendly feelings? Or because it was weakened by the struggle against the khanate and the civil war, and therefore was afraid of the other neighbors from the north, east and south.

      And what came of it? What was the Polish Sejm doing when the voivode Muravyov, under Silent, reached Grodno already?
      1. smile
        smile 30 June 2013 20: 34
        +1
        Lopatov
        Of course, I simplify the matter. I can’t get the monograph here :))). :))) This is just a comment. So that you are right. :)))
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 30 June 2013 22: 08
          -1
          You just have to admit that Russians and Litvinians have a different story. And it was not always friendship.

          Here you walked through the self-name "Litvin". Well, go to a Siberian and start proving to him: you are not a Siberian, but a Russian. Here it is absolutely the same.

          And the desire to know the real story, and not a historical story created to strengthen the friendship of peoples, is a completely normal desire.

          For example, why was I never told at school about the Battle of Blue Waters? About the later Kulikovskaya, yes, but about this one, no. Why did it turn out that the Tatars from Kiev and from southeastern Russia seemed to have left themselves. And they write all sorts of things like "Luna" about the "aggressor" Olgerd. Not knowing that it was he and his soldiers who threw them out of there.
          1. smile
            smile 30 June 2013 23: 16
            0
            Shovels (
            no ... the story is general and don’t trample on the school curriculum .. she cannot accommodate everything .... for example, I really surprised my teacher by mentioning Dudenev’s army in reply .... I received five ... :)))
            And "Litvin" is not a fig not a self-name, this is the name of Russian people of citizens of another state - "Lithuania" ... then, when the Lithuanian state was established ... then yes, the Russian citizens of this state began to call themselves Litvin in the Russian manner ... from here and all the insinuations of the comrades of the "new litvin" ... look at the names of the Lithuanian princes-
            Olgerd-Algirdas
            Keystut = Keistutis, for zhamytay- Kastas, Kastitis
            Jagiello Jagello ... from here are the Jagallons
            Mindovg-Mindaugas
            well, and so on and so on ...... okay .... excuse me, I sent the guests home, Kurt (the cat) explained that he must keep the house-team, "look for the partisans" .. .Kurt agreed ... I - sleep
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 30 June 2013 23: 31
              0
              And when was she common? When urinated with each other under Orsha?

              And "Lithuania", "Litvin" is a self-name. By the name of the state. Then the people did not really calculate how much and what kind of blood flows in their veins.
    2. smile
      smile 30 June 2013 17: 27
      0
      gura
      We all understand - and that. that your processes are exactly the same. how it is in Ukraine and the Baltic states — I mean rewriting history and Russophobic sentiments — only more slowly, we also see. Autumn is a pity. that you yourself obviously cannot appreciate it. Very sorry.
      Remember the terms - reorganization policy. polonization. siege, Uniate church (why did it appear ....) and then think. how well you felt under the Poles ... but you were just under ... did you really like it? ...

      The author is right — you yourself confirmed him in the first half of this post. And if you do nothing, then another ten years and you will not begin to write the second half ....
  28. pvv113
    pvv113 30 June 2013 16: 19
    +6
    SOMETHING I DID NOT HEAR ANYTHING ABOUT THE "HEROIZATION" OF THE POLITS. WHETHER THIS IS SOMETHING, OR WHAT IS WANTED IS PROVIDED FOR REAL
  29. mithridate
    mithridate 30 June 2013 19: 40
    0
    undeveloped scum climbed out of all the cracks because they feel support
  30. Luna
    Luna 30 June 2013 20: 05
    0
    Quote: Dimanolog
    to attack the Moscow principality does not equal to attack Russia ..... Prince Olgerd was married to the Belarusian princess Maria Yaroslavna. The lands of Belarus in those days were part of the ON. And he is not your leader, he is ours.

    What else is Belarus? Russia was not, but was Belarus? lol

    Quote: Dimanolog
    4.Olgerd accepted Orthodoxy and the Orthodox name Alexander.

    Yeah. Only after the death of Mary's first wife (and he was married three times), because of the marriage to which he converted to Orthodoxy, did he return to paganism. And buried according to pagan customs.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 30 June 2013 22: 13
      0
      And also this aggressor liberated Kiev and all southeastern Russia from the Mongol-Tatars. 18 years before the battle on the Kulikovo field. And that is unacceptable.
    2. Dimanolog
      Dimanolog 30 June 2013 23: 00
      0
      Quote: Luna
      What else is Belarus? Russia was not, but was Belarus?

      The lands of modern Belarus, and Princess Vitebsk (Vitebsk is such a city in the Republic of Belarus there is still a festival there), for those who are very dull.

      Quote: Luna
      And buried according to pagan customs.


      This is a very controversial statement, but even if it does not make him an enemy of Christians.
  31. Oldman
    Oldman 30 June 2013 20: 05
    +1
    My friends, gura is in many ways right. No need to dramatize the events of the past and present. For various reasons, the history of the Belarusian people and our statehood has been seized by our closest neighbors. It happened. Today there is a painful process of insight and self-identification. Skews in one direction or another are inevitable. Belarusians are calm and wise people, they will deal with their history, find their place in it. Everything will be fine.
    And the article - yes, it smells bad. There are no such sentiments in Belarus.
  32. mole
    mole 30 June 2013 22: 02
    0
    Perphrasing a little: "There are two stories: One is Ours - the other is not correct!" Let such AK, UPA, OUN, etc., etc. trying to alter everything, but as spirit and victories were not - and will not be! Jackals will always feed on scraps! wink
  33. Luna
    Luna 30 June 2013 23: 18
    0
    Quote: Dimanolog

    The lands of modern Belarus, and Princess Vitebsk (Vitebsk is such a city in the Republic of Belarus there is still a festival there), for those who are very dull.

    Once again, for the understanding, writing that Olgerd did not burn Russia, but Moscow, but the Belarusian lands, at least 800 years ago there was no such thing. So who are you honoring?

    Quote: Dimanolog
    Quote: Luna
    And buried according to pagan customs.


    This is a very controversial statement, but even if it does not make him an enemy of Christians.

    Well, yes, it was not Algerd who destroyed Christians. Are you aware of the Martyrs of Vilna?

    By and large, all this could be taken more calmly, if not for distortions. Why is Vitebsk worthy of the monument to Olgerd and not worthy of the same Princess Olga? They were ordered to install at least both of them, but no.
    I was in Belarus last year and the aftertaste is just like that - everything connected with the Second World War is sacred. The rest is the impression that Belarus is part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth with a small segment in the USSR, and bypassing the Russian Empire. So the article is a big plus.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 30 June 2013 23: 23
      0
      Quote: Luna
      Once again, for the understanding, writing that Olgerd did not burn Russia, but Moscow, but the Belarusian lands, at least 800 years ago there was no such thing. So who are you honoring?

      Was Russia then?
      1. Luna
        Luna 1 July 2013 22: 01
        0
        Well, it's like someone.
        Belarusian "patriots" like to remember the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, forgetting that the full name of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, RUSSIAN, Zhemoytskoe