Military Review

Self-propelled guns of the Southern Military District received the latest modification of SAU - 2С19М2 "Msta-S"

130
Self-propelled guns of the Southern Military District received the latest modification of SAU - 2С19М2 "Msta-S"

More than 35 modernized 152-mm self-propelled howitzers 2С19М2 "Msta-S" were the first to receive the gunners of the motorized rifle brigade of the Southern Military District (SOR), stationed in the Stavropol Territory.


According to the Press Service of the Southern Military District, all commanders of howitzer self-propelled artillery batteries of the compound in order to improve their skills and professional training were retrained to this artillery system at the factory.

New artillery system 2C19М2 "Msta-S" has significant design differences from the previous modification. The upgraded self-propelled howitzers installed a new automated fire control system, increased target rate of fire, and also has the ability to use digital electronic maps, which significantly speeds up the orientation of the terrain in difficult physiographic conditions and allows you to perform fire tasks more quickly and more efficiently.

Also, to reduce the visibility of self-propelled artillery on the battlefield, the Cape kit is used, which, in combination with heat shields, allows you to simultaneously increase protection from radar, thermal and optical detection by more than 1,5 times, resulting in a decrease in the effectiveness of high-precision weapons.

The MSTA-S highly mobile armored self-propelled artillery installation is designed to destroy openly located and protected targets (manpower, armored and unarmored combat equipment, field fortifications, anti-aircraft and anti-missile defenses, enemy control points and rear facilities).
Originator:
http://www.vestnik-rm.ru/
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  1. Atrix
    Atrix 28 June 2013 09: 55 New
    +25
    More than 35 modernized 152-mm self-propelled howitzers 2С19М2 "Msta-S"

    Great news. Only why it is impossible to specify exact numbers, otherwise it can be 50 pieces and 350 winked
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 28 June 2013 09: 58 New
      +25
      The work of the loader, of course, is hellish. good
      1. Nick
        Nick 28 June 2013 23: 46 New
        0
        Quote: Vladimirets
        The work of the loader, of course, is hellish.

        Batteries always took guys strong, hardy ...
    2. Wedmak
      Wedmak 28 June 2013 10: 00 New
      +3
      Can't an automated combat pack be pushed in there?
      1. kind
        kind 28 June 2013 10: 14 New
        +5
        She is there, just in peacetime they charge from the ground.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 28 June 2013 10: 19 New
          +24
          Always charge from the ground. Even with full conveyors.
          Ammunition is fired only when it is impossible to quickly deliver ammunition and lay them on the ground. For example, when receiving fire missions on the march. Or when the enemy is engaged in an active counter-battery fight.
          1. Wedmak
            Wedmak 28 June 2013 10: 27 New
            +4
            I’ve seen it from the ground, but what’s manually loading from the ammunition rack has caused confusion. Yes, even so famously throws a meter down a charge.
            So, it turns out save the resource of the automatic loader?
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 28 June 2013 10: 40 New
              +1
              Quote: Wedmak
              So, it turns out save the resource of the automatic loader?

              Rather, the coordinator was covered (yellow unit on 3.06 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL12giMvhn4).
              The system is quite old and not always maintained as it should. Some of the two wars reeled off with all the consequences
              1. leon-iv
                leon-iv 28 June 2013 10: 52 New
                +1
                yes xs at these units M2 which everything should work normally it seems direct from the factory.
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 28 June 2013 11: 00 New
                  +9
                  Then another thought came to me: most likely the coordinator was turned off due to a woodpecker with a large camera sitting inside
                  1. Wedmak
                    Wedmak 28 June 2013 11: 05 New
                    +3
                    Optionally, modern compact cameras can be fastened with tape anywhere. The size of these cameras is slightly larger than the fist, and the quality is quite acceptable - HD, FULL HD.
                    Z.Y. An ordinary photo mirror in HD takes pictures.
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 28 June 2013 11: 09 New
                      0
                      It is possible, but I am inclined to believe that the "star" operator climbed there with a large
                    2. leon-iv
                      leon-iv 28 June 2013 11: 10 New
                      +9
                      HD is the quality of the matrix
                      But the laws of optics can not be redone. Good cameras are still rather big.
                      1. Wedmak
                        Wedmak 28 June 2013 11: 17 New
                        +1
                        But the laws of optics can not be redone. Good cameras are still rather big.

                        I do not argue. And most of the volume of these cameras falls on bulky and heavy optics from drop dead expensively illuminated glass.
                        But the same “Star” attaches small cameras to military aircraft, and the image quality is very good.
                      2. leon-iv
                        leon-iv 28 June 2013 11: 30 New
                        0
                        it should not be confused, they use it there type GOOPro. there, although a good matrix, but optics is generally shit else.
                      3. Joker
                        Joker 28 June 2013 17: 44 New
                        +1
                        Picture seen with GOuPro? Better than on those cameras (professional) that our television people use. The only thing where I saw really great cameras was the dock filming. the film is called Special Forces, the rest of the camera is fuzzy.
                      4. Harakternik
                        Harakternik 28 June 2013 21: 04 New
                        0
                        WHO SEEED DEAT THAT KNOWS US WE ARE CALLED SPECIAL TEAM !!! angry
            2. old man54
              old man54 28 June 2013 15: 26 New
              0
              Quote: Spade
              Then another thought came to me: most likely the coordinator was turned off due to a woodpecker with a large camera sitting inside

              and why? Does he, a woodpecker with a camera, interfere with his work physically? Or can’t his work be shown to the media?
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 28 June 2013 16: 44 New
                +1
                Coordinator is a conventional manipulator with one degree of freedom. There is nothing secret in him. But it can catch a robust
  • Lopatov
    Lopatov 28 June 2013 10: 22 New
    0
    She is. Just doesn't seem to work. Manually manually charge only the charge.
    1. ramsi
      ramsi 28 June 2013 10: 41 New
      0
      and several shells at once in one target - can it?
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 28 June 2013 10: 55 New
        +2
        It depends on the range and fitness of the loader.

        Such shooting is a fashionable thing, it is used in all foreign videos. But no one says that this is possible only when shooting at long ranges
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 28 June 2013 10: 58 New
          +1
          But no one says that this is possible only when shooting at long ranges

          A person using his brain for its intended purpose will understand. And the agitprom zombies will do anything for anything.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 28 June 2013 11: 06 New
            +2
            Physics in the volume of eight years old must be known.
        2. ramsi
          ramsi 28 June 2013 11: 00 New
          0
          that is, the calculation of charges, trajectories and aiming the barrel are possible, but everything depends on the agility of the loader?
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 28 June 2013 11: 06 New
            +1
            If such a task had been set, this type of shooting would have been possible even from the Soviet unmodified 2C19.
            1. Wedmak
              Wedmak 28 June 2013 11: 10 New
              +1
              What about the effectiveness of this type of shooting? It looks beautiful of course ...
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 28 June 2013 11: 22 New
                +5
                There are many nuances.
                If you try to reduce the number of guns firing at a target in this way, then not really. Probability cannot be fooled. 4 out of 4 guns is more accurate than 4 out of one.
                If the whole battery or division shoots like this, then it’s effective: less time to hit the target is safer for the gunners themselves, you can quickly take off the fire. And the effect itself from the simultaneous detonation of a large number of shells is higher.
          2. Wedmak
            Wedmak 28 June 2013 11: 09 New
            +1
            everything rests on the agility of the loader

            and range of the affected object, i.e. flight time.
            1. ramsi
              ramsi 28 June 2013 11: 14 New
              +1
              guys, do not talk about "if, range, and brains with physics" - say yes or no ...
              1. Wedmak
                Wedmak 28 June 2013 11: 19 New
                0
                And they answered that yes. Only nevertheless, it is worth clarifying the conditions of this "Yes."
                1. ramsi
                  ramsi 28 June 2013 11: 22 New
                  0
                  Judging by the place of work of the loader, most likely still "no"
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 28 June 2013 11: 26 New
                    +1
                    I agree, with modular charges is better. But while there is what is. "Coalition" is not known when else the troops will go
                  2. ramsi
                    ramsi 28 June 2013 11: 37 New
                    +2
                    Thank you, I guess that without a full automatic loader, such a trick is possible, rather, theoretically, and then with 2-3 shells. And how did it happen that, having such a practice of designing automatic loaders, they didn’t master it here (if only because the caliber is large and the shells are heavy)?
                  3. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 28 June 2013 11: 45 New
                    +2
                    The problem is that we do not have modular charges
                  4. ramsi
                    ramsi 28 June 2013 11: 53 New
                    0
                    so, does the soldier put his bags of gunpowder into the shells with his hands, or is there some kind of fixed charge?
                  5. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 28 June 2013 11: 57 New
                    +2
                    The fighter takes out the lid and pulls out extra tufts of gunpowder, then inserts the lid into place
                  6. ramsi
                    ramsi 28 June 2013 12: 10 New
                    +1
                    Well, of course, although loading the projectile itself could be mechanized
                  7. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 28 June 2013 12: 20 New
                    +4
                    The loading of the projectile itself is fully mechanized. Moreover, the loading mechanism remembers the type of projectile, and casts exactly what is required.

                    But here, not everything is simple. So you can shoot only at the factory settings. If otherwise required, it takes time to manually spec. made shell keys. So, electronic fuses and remote input devices are needed. We have both, but so far it’s not going to the army
                  8. ramsi
                    ramsi 28 June 2013 12: 50 New
                    +1
                    Tell me, here’s another theoretical question: if the charge in the sleeve is maximum, can this be compensated by the elevation angle of the gun, or does the board (in the sense of resource) become excessive?
                  9. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 28 June 2013 12: 58 New
                    +3
                    Not just a resource. Higher trajectory - less accuracy. Plus the impossibility of firing ricochets. So the board is really excessive.
                  10. ramsi
                    ramsi 28 June 2013 13: 18 New
                    0
                    sorry, less accuracy - is it because the projectile is longer in the air? (I mean, longer - how next)
                  11. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 28 June 2013 13: 55 New
                    +4
                    And from what is longer, and from what is higher.
                    For example, the error due to the unaccounted deviation of the projectile weight will be the greater, the longer it flies.
                    But the same errors in determining the correction for wind not only last longer. The higher the trajectory, the greater the likelihood of error in determining the effect of wind on the projectile
                    This is so, in a simple way. Without going into the jungle of probability theory and error theory.

                    A decrease in accuracy in artillery is "cured" simply by increasing the expenditure of shells on the target.
                  12. ramsi
                    ramsi 28 June 2013 14: 18 New
                    +2
                    and ricocheting for such a system isn’t too "exotic"?
                  13. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 28 June 2013 14: 33 New
                    +2
                    Shooting on ricochets is used by all of our barrel art. systems other than mortars. If conditions allow. Effective air blast with a contact fuse, much cheaper than a remote or radio fuse
                  14. ramsi
                    ramsi 28 June 2013 14: 38 New
                    +1
                    thanks, got it. It’s just me that directing such artillery systems to direct fire ... Or didn’t I understand something?
                  15. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 28 June 2013 14: 51 New
                    0
                    Artillery applies ricocheting to fire only with closed fire.
                  16. ramsi
                    ramsi 28 June 2013 14: 57 New
                    0
                    then I don’t understand. And then what are the angles of encounter with the earth? From closed, yes mounted? ..
                  17. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 28 June 2013 15: 03 New
                    +1
                    Honestly, I don’t remember. In artillery, it is easier - in the firing tables for each charge the range of ranges is indicated on which a rebound is possible. The capital letter "P" in the margins.
                  18. Basilevs
                    Basilevs 2 July 2013 22: 53 New
                    0
                    To get a rebound, you need a meeting angle of up to 20 degrees on ground targets, and up to 10 - on surface targets. There will be more - there will be no rebound.
  • cdrt
    cdrt 28 June 2013 14: 35 New
    +1
    There is, but I don’t actually go to the troops - this is not.
    More accurately describes the real life in the army.
    And then ... like K. Prutkov - a collection of unfinished.
  • Lopatov
    Lopatov 28 June 2013 14: 52 New
    0
    Quote: cdrt
    There is, but I don’t actually go to the troops - this is not.

    Goes a little. How many Tornado-Gs did they put in the troops of the Southern Military District? They have an induction data input system.
  • Basilevs
    Basilevs 28 June 2013 22: 01 New
    +3
    Forgive me generously, gentlemen, if suddenly someone does not like my opinion. And its essence is as follows. On the video - a NEW (albeit not very) 2C19 M1 with the ASUNO 1V168 system. Ammunition on it (as in all previous 2C19) is automated. The shooting time is not long ago, the calculation in pixel form is dressed. And the conclusion from here is this. The new car was killed, and the calculation carries out charging in duplication mode. ASUNO does not work, half of the buttons have already fallen out and the doorway .. oh, lost. They mock the machine and ruin the materiel by dropping shells weighing 43 kg onto the cartridge case.
    The work of the loader is not at all hellish if the commander and crew have enough brains and a desire to keep the car in order. 2S19 rate of fire in short-term series (up to 10 shots) - 5 seconds a shot, or 12 shots per minute. I declare this with full responsibility, I shot personally and repeatedly. It is quite capable of hanging several shells on a trajectory, but at this level of ASUNO such a task is absent in its software. Maybe in 2S19M2 there is, I don’t know this. I know one thing - if the control system is disabled, and even without buttons, if the loading mechanism does not work as usual - you can shoot only as in this video. Personally, I would be ashamed to spread such a shame at all.
  • Lopatov
    Lopatov 28 June 2013 22: 55 New
    0
    Quote: Basilevs
    On the video - a NEW (albeit not very) 2C19 M1 with the ASUNO 1V168 system.

    And why did you draw such a conclusion?
    And what does the work of the coordinator have to do with ASUNO?
  • Basilevs
    Basilevs 29 June 2013 17: 07 New
    0
    This conclusion is made because this ASUNO is placed precisely on 2C19M1, which, in particular, came into the unit in July - August last year, and which no further than last November I thoughtfully climbed and studied. quote = Lopatov] And what does the work of the coordinator have to do with ASUNO? [/ quote]
    If it stands, then the system is new. If the coordinator does not work, then it means a fault. [
  • runway
    runway 29 June 2013 09: 04 New
    0
    Bravo! It's nice to listen to reasoned explanations.
  • _CAMOBAP_
    _CAMOBAP_ 28 June 2013 11: 50 New
    +2
    Calculations, it, of course, is an important matter. It is only necessary to take into account that the projectile flies to a long range for quite a long time - several tens of seconds, depending on the range, the charge used and the chosen trajectory. And atmospheric factors alone - which are constant. albeit insignificantly, the changes ultimately make a rather significant contribution to the deviation from the calculated point.
  • awerkiev
    awerkiev 28 June 2013 09: 58 New
    0
    Such news is very nice to read! There is confidence in tomorrow! soldier
  • NOMADE
    NOMADE 28 June 2013 10: 00 New
    +1
    35 pieces, class! ))) good
    So the SU-35 would be delivered. But if 350 pieces or more, and even fast, that would be great.
    1. cdrt
      cdrt 28 June 2013 14: 36 New
      +2
      more than 35 pieces, it’s apparently military, from whose words they wrote down 36 guns wink
  • Vtel
    Vtel 28 June 2013 10: 01 New
    +16
    "Gunners,
    The exact order is given,
    Gunners
    Fatherland calls us!
    Out of many thousands of batteries
    For the tears of our mothers
    For our Motherland -
    Fire, fire! "

    "Handset 15, sight 120, bam, bam ?? and by!
    You and only you remind me of my beloved, my swarthy, my trouble-free ... howitzer!
    I feel like we are on the brink of a tremendous racket. "
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 28 June 2013 10: 08 New
      +8
      You, unlike the author of the article, inserted the correct picture
      1. Black Colonel
        Black Colonel 28 June 2013 11: 54 New
        +4
        Authors generally tend not to bother with pictures. The main thing is that the picture is military, and that’s it!
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 28 June 2013 11: 59 New
          +2
          Well, at least 2C19, and not some "Cruzader", as on non-military sites.
    2. Saburov
      Saburov 28 June 2013 10: 13 New
      +4
      And where is your trouble-free and black one?
      Died in an unequal battle!
      Jacob Alexandrych, so you are a widower !!?
    3. Basilevs
      Basilevs 2 July 2013 23: 00 New
      0
      Finally - not at the factory, but in part there will be cars with an onboard ballistic station. There were never 21C19 tables on a regular old portable ABS. Or batteries. or calculation ... Let the car climb !!! I forgive everything ...
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 2 July 2013 23: 08 New
        0
        But didn’t they put it on the “M1”?
  • BARKAS
    BARKAS 28 June 2013 10: 02 New
    +1
    . The modernized self-propelled howitzers installed a new automated fire control system, increased the rate of fire, and there is also the possibility of using digital electronic cards,

    It would be nice to install such an upgrade on all artillery systems to guarantee the success and effectiveness of modern artillery!
  • pensioner
    pensioner 28 June 2013 10: 03 New
    +1
    In our EVACU, cadets were trained for them ... Eh! There were good times! Maybe someone looks at the site here, studied there 94-99? Write!
    1. kind
      kind 28 June 2013 10: 16 New
      +1
      I quit recently!
      1. pensioner
        pensioner 28 June 2013 20: 33 New
        0
        Quote: Good
        I quit recently!

        And when did you study?
    2. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 28 June 2013 10: 42 New
      +1
      Quote: retired
      Maybe someone looks at the site here, studied there 94-99? Write!

      My brother-in-law finished it in 2005, the cousin of his wife about 4 years ago.
    3. alex popov
      alex popov 28 June 2013 21: 04 New
      0
      judging by the release of 1-2 batteries? and who was the platoon? )
  • pensioner
    pensioner 28 June 2013 10: 05 New
    0
    Interesting: Transport Engineering Plant. Sverdlov did or not?
    1. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 28 June 2013 11: 54 New
      +3
      Yes. yes Transmash workers tried ...
      1. pensioner
        pensioner 28 June 2013 20: 32 New
        0
        Quote: Andrew Y.
        Yes. Transmash workers tried ...

        Well, great !!
  • Victor
    Victor 28 June 2013 10: 06 New
    0
    Almost two SPG divisions. This is a very good result! The new SLA is also good, but I would like more information on it.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 28 June 2013 10: 12 New
      +1
      Quote: Victor
      Almost two SPG divisions

      The batteries are different. On 4, 6 and 8 guns. Accordingly, the different divisions are 12, 18 and 24.
      1. zanoza
        zanoza 28 June 2013 10: 36 New
        0
        Quote: Spade
        More 35 modernized 152 mm self-propelled howitzers 2S19M2 "Msta-S" were the first to receive artillerymen of the motorized rifle brigade ...


        This is most likely two SAD heavy motorized rifle brigade, 18 guns each.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 28 June 2013 10: 47 New
          +3
          “Heavy” yet. So it’s rather three divisions. Due to the low capacity of the roads in the mountains, the divisions in the very south of Russia are twelve-gun.
          And rather, such a technique will be put in there art. brigade. New "Chrysanthemums" did go there. And they have experience in mastering new technology.
      2. cdrt
        cdrt 28 June 2013 14: 39 New
        +1
        Well, regularly in the Motorized Rifle Brigade, it seems like 36 - 2 18 gun divisions.
        most likely this is "more than 35" wink
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 28 June 2013 14: 54 New
          0
          There is nothing more mysterious than the Soviet-Russian OSH
  • Lopatov
    Lopatov 28 June 2013 10: 14 New
    +3
    Finally. Should have been delivered last year. Now we need to add to them the corresponding complex of control machines. Otherwise, it's all nonsense.
    1. cdrt
      cdrt 28 June 2013 14: 41 New
      +1
      And it seems that they had long promised also to deliver a new artillery unit - such as making a range at the Pz-2000 level with an ordinary projectile.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 28 June 2013 14: 56 New
        0
        Not only promise. They carry it to international exhibitions.
        http://bastion-karpenko.ru/kmn/
  • aszzz888
    aszzz888 28 June 2013 10: 24 New
    +2
    Pushkin is good.
    The previous sample, for the entire calculation, fell into the sewer manhole.
  • erased
    erased 28 June 2013 10: 33 New
    0
    Interesting news. How much does Msta hit now? And 35 cars are almost two divisions, if they have 18 pieces each.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 28 June 2013 10: 48 New
      0
      The shells are old, so most likely at the same range. The update primarily concerns informatization.
      1. Flooding
        Flooding 28 June 2013 11: 13 New
        +2
        Modernization to the 2S19M2 level according to the Dilemma-2 ORK also provides for the installation of new 2A64M2 howitzers with higher tactical and technical data. In particular, the rate of fire should increase to 10 rounds per minute (in any case, Khlopotov calls this figure). If this is the same option with a barrel length of 52 caliber, then the range will definitely increase. But there is already no intelligible information.
        So it's not just about electronic stuffing ...
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 28 June 2013 11: 30 New
          +2
          Rate of fire can be significantly increased by automatic recovery of aiming both vertically and horizontally. And that means it is in electronics.

          About 2S19M2 a lot of things were written, up to the use of modular charges. We will see.
          1. Flooding
            Flooding 28 June 2013 11: 39 New
            +1
            Quote: Spade
            And that means it is in electronics

            Good, Shovels.
            Answer the questions:
            - Is 2A64M2 worth it?
            - what is its rate of fire?
            Unknown I answered your phrase
            Quote: Spade
            The update primarily concerns informatization.

            And he did not claim that electronics is not able to increase the effectiveness of fire.
            But I just repeat that upgrading to 2S19M2 provides for the installation of a new howitzer. So understandable?
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 28 June 2013 11: 54 New
              +1
              Quote: Flood
              - Is 2A64M2 worth it?
              - what is its rate of fire?

              And since when does the rate of fire depend on the trunk? Are you hinting at its survivability? So an increase from 8 to 10 will not affect

              Previously, they restored the aiming horizontally manually (the gunner looked into the panorama and guided the crosshair to the aiming point with the horizontal aiming mechanism), now it’s automatic. Feel the difference.

              It's about practical rate of fire. The technical can only be increased with a new loading mechanism.
          2. Basilevs
            Basilevs 29 June 2013 23: 06 New
            0
            Automatic recovery of the vertical aiming was on all 2C19 from the earliest who entered the troops. Horizontal-already on the latest samples.
            1. Basilevs
              Basilevs 2 July 2013 22: 26 New
              0
              And who set such a smart minus ?? I honestly do not care, but is it not true ??
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 2 July 2013 23: 08 New
                0
                Someone missed
  • VohaAhov
    VohaAhov 28 June 2013 11: 18 New
    +1
    Quote: Atrix
    More than 35 modernized 152-mm self-propelled howitzers 2С19М2 "Msta-S"

    Great news. Only why it is impossible to specify exact numbers, otherwise it can be 50 pieces and 350 winked

    Most likely we are talking about 36 units. The motorized rifle brigade includes 2 artillery divisions on self-propelled guns in each battalion of 18 self-propelled guns. total 36.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • smel
    smel 28 June 2013 11: 21 New
    +6
    Oh, and I was tormented with this thing. Yes, and I don’t have faith that ASUNO will work in this team. In my memory, only two organizations were able to master this system a little (99 at Korolkov and 385 at Petrov) Everyone who doesn’t like my thought - try to find out how many divisions with ASUNO are in the Armed Forces of our country, how many were there, how many worked and are working now. When you are horrified - then appreciate my post. In general, the information is positive.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 28 June 2013 11: 34 New
      +3
      I agree, this is now a huge problem. It can be said, basic for artillery.
    2. yanus
      yanus 28 June 2013 22: 49 New
      0
      Quote: smel
      Oh, and I was tormented with this thing. Yes and I have no faith that ASUNO will work in this team

      Technical problems with ASUNO or crews can’t learn?
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 28 June 2013 23: 09 New
        0
        The problem is the lack of control systems in the troops.
      2. smel
        smel 29 June 2013 00: 11 New
        -2
        Crews will never learn in the current term of service ... Officers do not need this, because they will never be released from this organization for good knowledge ... The software is raw ... The technical condition of 2с19 from the moment of birth was very bad. Therefore, in the Czech Republic, after 2-3 of the day, there remained bg to 25% of the payroll ... The system is too heavy and capricious ... Communication and switching is a nightmare ... All malfunctions can be fixed only by specialists of the enterprises ... The charging machine always died right after the start of work ... You can add a lot, but the above, available in any sources, is enough
        1. Basilevs
          Basilevs 2 July 2013 22: 23 New
          +1
          Quote: smel
          Crews will never learn at their current lifetime ...
          If you learn, they will learn.

          Quote: smel
          Software - Raw
          This is yes.

          Quote: smel
          Technical condition 2s19 from the moment of birth was very bad. Therefore, in the Czech Republic in 2–3 days there remained bg to 25% of the payroll ...
          just do not need such loud phrases and generalizations. I don’t remember anything like that. Technical condition 2C19, which came to the unit in 1993, was excellent; Most of the breakdowns and malfunctions are due to insufficient preparation of calculations. Objectively, there were technical flaws, what do you want from the new system. But even in the second campaign, non-new cars by that time did not have such a percentage of breakdowns.

          Quote: smel
          All malfunctions are resolved only by specialists of enterprises ...
          Well, that’s all ... changing a pair of “leather” pea jackets, they eliminated a lot of things themselves, the main thing is to know the equipment and have hands from the right place.

          Quote: smel
          The automatic loader always died right after the start of work ...
          But this, sorry, kink, and, more simply, nonsense. I have been closely communicating with it for eight years since the system arrived at the armament of the regiment, I personally shot more than one ammunition and repaired it with my own hands, so no need to la. Without denying the flaws, I will never bite the MH.
  • Constantine
    Constantine 28 June 2013 11: 25 New
    +3
    I wonder who will be the first to begin to speak seriously that 35 is small, 350 is needed. Are the polymers lost, etc.? )))

    Good news. However, I believe that it is time to come to grips with new ammunition for all types of equipment. I saw somewhere an article about the excellent high-precision cannon shells of our development. The weapon is certainly good, but what it shoots with is also not unimportant. Author +, cheered up :)
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 28 June 2013 11: 37 New
      +8
      Quote: Constantine
      I wonder who will be the first to begin to speak seriously that 35 is small, 350 is needed. Are the polymers lost, etc.? )))

      I will say. Artillery is being updated at a snail's pace. And only in Southeast Russia.
      1. Constantine
        Constantine 28 June 2013 20: 25 New
        0
        Then I will repeat what I said not so long ago. After the economy destroyed in the 90s, as well as with our present capabilities, the amount for rearmament was allocated almost limit. Much needs to be restored, and in some areas the calculation is aimed at promising weapons, which will be relevant for a long time and will exceed the total mass of standard weapons, such as the T-50 and Armata. I don’t think that we know about all the developments and the stage of their readiness, and therefore, I would not criticize the calculation of the Ministry of Defense in terms of quantity since we do not have enough information to fully analyze the situation and prospects.

        South-West Military District is arming, primarily because it is an explosive region.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 28 June 2013 21: 15 New
          +1
          Do you know that in our troops there are weapons of 1937 for adoption? Name at least one kind or type of troops where the situation is similar. Even the traditionally technologically backward infantry has the oldest model - BMP-1
          1. Constantine
            Constantine 28 June 2013 23: 44 New
            -1
            Everything needs to be done consistently and carefully.
            Regarding the BMP, a promising machine, which, as far as I know, is planned to replace the BMP - Kurganets-25. You can read about it here - http://topwar.ru/29165-kurganmashzavod-uzhe-etoy-osenyu-vypustit-novuyu-boevuyu-
            mashinu-pehoty-kurganec-25.html

            Regarding the fact that our infantry is riding a BMP-1, you forgot to mention that in addition to the BMP-1 in service, in 2012, there were 720 BMP-3s, as well as 5000 BMP-2s, of which up to 2000 thousand. in storage. This is a land military. Another about 150 BMP-2 from the Marines and some in the explosives.

            As for BMP-1, there were 2012 of them in 8000, of which 7000 were in storage. Hence the conclusion that, despite the presence of BMP-1 in the ranks, the basis of the active fleet of such vehicles is BMP-2, and the number of BMP-3s that are in operation does not reach the number of BMP-1s in the same state.

            About 1937 did not hear. I would appreciate examples. Interesting to read.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 29 June 2013 00: 14 New
              +1
              Yes, where does the "Kurganets"?

              But about artillery, the oldest model is the ML-20 model of 1937. And not in storage, in the troops. About a hundred pieces.
              1. Constantine
                Constantine 29 June 2013 01: 01 New
                -1
                Kurganets - promising BMP. As I said, emphasis, in my opinion, needs to be done on promising technology. The same BMP-3 - technology of the late XX century. The Russian army, given the fact that in terms of military technology we are at the forefront, should be equipped with the best that the genius of our design idea can offer. Many say that you need BMP-3, T-90 and more. Of course it is necessary, but it will become obsolete much earlier than what we can get in 3-4 years. Why, in 3-4 years, put your army in a known worse situation, if the most advanced equipment is already on the way and is in the metal. Given the approach to the Rogozin case, the cars will arrive, with a high degree of probability, at the appointed time. If you spend money now on the same BMP-3, then for Kurganets, for example, there will be no money left, and then after a couple of years, you will say that he is Kurganets, and our infantry is using the backward BMP-3 technology.

                As for the ML-20, this is a gun, which, against the background of the same self-propelled guns, is as simple as a stool and can be transported by trailer to the same Urals. The same art installations, which are simple and mobile, are present not only with us. If it is able to fulfill the goals for which it is intended, effectively, then why should it be written off? Only in order to replace with a similar unit, but with a more pathos look? Army is not a fashion show. This is where practicality and fault tolerance are important. The ML-20 battery, which is capable of breaking through armor up to 30 mm with fragments, is quite capable of cooling the enemy’s ardor, and its portability, simplicity and reliability give it the right to serve properly in the 21st century. Cheap and cheerful, in many ways.

                Sorry if it's rude, but is it worth it to look at the situation from a neutral position?
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 29 June 2013 01: 29 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Constantine
                  The same art installations that are simple and mobile.

                  Is the ML-20 simple and mobile? She has a transfer time from marching to combat - 7 minutes 45 seconds by five points. And "the same gun mounts" of probable friends, and even the late Soviet ones, have 2-3 minutes.
                  Mobility? The 155-mm towed M777 weighs 4.3 tons - it can be transferred by an average helicopter on an external sling. Our analog, 2A65 Msta-B - 7 tons. Only the Cow Mi-26

                  Quote: Constantine
                  Only in order to replace with a similar unit, but with a more pathos look? Army is not a fashion show.

                  Right This is war. During which the fire must be removed no more than one and a half to two minutes. And so ML-20 is a one-time thing.
                  1. PLO
                    PLO 29 June 2013 03: 24 New
                    0
                    But about artillery, the oldest model is the ML-20 model of 1937. And not in storage, in the troops. About a hundred pieces.

                    hard to believe something request
                    can I tell you in more detail where are they used?


                    Right This is war. During which the fire must be removed no more than one and a half to two minutes. And so ML-20 is a one-time thing.

                    Nowadays, any towed guns are disposable, that ML-20 and 2A65, that M777
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 29 June 2013 11: 13 New
                      +1
                      Quote: olp
                      can I tell you in more detail where are they used?

                      They used to stand near Irkutsk. Heavier-lip regiments as a part of art. divisions, then they were reorganized into a heavy-sleeper brigade. I don’t know in which district they are now, but they were taken out of the old place.
  • Black Colonel
    Black Colonel 28 June 2013 11: 58 New
    +4
    Something recently, the novies are mainly sent to SEE. Is something brewing there or one of two?
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 28 June 2013 12: 04 New
      +2
      It just happened historically that the most prepared units and formations are concentrated there. Starting with the withdrawal of troops from the GSVG there
  • KononAV
    KononAV 28 June 2013 12: 06 New
    0
    Keep it up.
  • sub307
    sub307 28 June 2013 12: 16 New
    0
    The good news is that Southeast Military District needs to be strengthened.
  • deputy ___ watered
    deputy ___ watered 28 June 2013 12: 34 New
    +1
    Previously in Budenovsk like "Acacia" were.
  • mithridate
    mithridate 28 June 2013 13: 55 New
    0
    more equipment in the troops
  • sergey158-29
    sergey158-29 28 June 2013 14: 32 New
    +1
    It’s good that they produce, retrain, but not enough ...
  • pa_nik
    pa_nik 28 June 2013 14: 35 New
    +1
    A grandfather, a tankman, would be alive, would probably say: "We would have such three hundred and forty on the border in the 41st .." good
  • pa_nik
    pa_nik 28 June 2013 15: 21 New
    +1
    Quote: Vtel
    I feel like we are on the brink of a tremendous racket. "



    "Wai Mae!" (C) Well said! good
  • runway
    runway 28 June 2013 16: 47 New
    +6
    I read the comments of "experts." Thank you have fun. The most interesting thing is that those who are simply interested in the problem of automatically loading a given gun ask the right question: "Why is this fighter puffing and loading manually when an automatic rifle is provided?" And the casket just opened - the crew was not prepared. Officers do anything but their own business. For automatic loading, you need to distribute the shells and charges in the combat unit and enter this data into the on-board computer. This is something they do not do in this unit, but like a hundred years ago they charge from the ground with modern technology ....
    At training firing, when one shot is fired in half an hour, this can still work, but in other conditions, when it is necessary to maintain the given rate of fire, any “pumped” loader on the second ten shells is blown away ... Draw conclusions.
    And getting new equipment in the troops is a holiday. With which I congratulate the brothers in arms.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 28 June 2013 17: 40 New
      0
      Quote: piston
      And the casket just opened - the crew is not prepared

      If the crew, with the non-working coordinator and the absence of shells (for which the gun commander works, bending backward), began sending shells and charges manually with a doselik, then yes, one could speak of unpreparedness.

      And here is a wonderful work in emergency mode. It seems that you do not understand anything in the self-propelled guns that you have on the icon.

      Quote: piston
      At training firing, when one shot is fired in half an hour, this can still work, but in other conditions, when it is necessary to maintain a given rate of fire, any “pumped” loader on the second ten shells is blown away ...

      Cool. And how was this done before, for example, during the Great Patriotic War? When during the same artillery preparation attacks not several tens of shells, but several BKs were fired. Moreover, not a follower, but a follower. Manually. Keeping the same sending force
  • 123tank
    123tank 28 June 2013 18: 22 New
    0
    It is gratifying that they began to equip the army. Be .... happy the former Minister of Defense.
  • darksoul
    darksoul 28 June 2013 18: 59 New
    0
    it’s worth rejoicing it’s a pity that it’s not just new samples that modernization
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 28 June 2013 21: 19 New
      0
      Here you are wrong. This is a very deep upgrade.
  • Black
    Black 28 June 2013 19: 36 New
    0
    Are the specialists still here?

    there is also the possibility of using digital electronic cards,

    positioning by amerikosovskoy zhipies ??
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 28 June 2013 21: 18 New
      0
      As far as I know, double
  • Unknown
    Unknown 28 June 2013 20: 04 New
    0
    The native army is moving, trying to regain its place in the world.
  • soldier's grandson
    soldier's grandson 29 June 2013 00: 06 New
    0
    Samy long-range German reckon
  • harrymur
    harrymur 29 June 2013 09: 09 New
    0
    also a video about artillery
  • Svyatoslav72
    Svyatoslav72 29 June 2013 23: 29 New
    -1
    Something did not inspire or please me. The sizes are large, loading "semi-automatic", firing range is not large, accuracy x / z. General assessment: Obsolete "Samovar", during WWII, and until the 60s.