Military Review

A country with suicidal tendencies

80
When I hear the heartbreaking lamentations of the Ukrainian patriots about the gas transmission system of Ukraine as a kind of sacral rod on which independence rests, I remember history about an old woman whose only nurse was a goat ... God forbid a bleating girlfriend die, or her foes take away, and the existence of an unhappy grandmother will lose all meaning and even physical ability. Similarly, Ukraine has built its entire statehood around the GTS and supposedly expensive Russian gas, and the authorities have made the struggle for energy independence from Russia one of the factors that consolidate society.


At first, the unfortunate independent investors fight for the conclusion of contracts for the supply of gas from Russia, and after a very short time - for their revision. At first, half of Ukraine shouts about an enchanting victory over Russia, considers the contract extremely beneficial for the country, and then it starts crying that the Russians have deceived them. However, I would like to ask one rhetorical question: did Ukraine really experience a boom in economic development several years ago with fabulously low gas prices? Well, today gas costs more than 400 dollars per thousand cubic meters. m., but still in 2005, its price was only 50 dollars !!! Maybe then new factories were built, was the modernization of old enterprises, the infrastructure was updated? Of course not...

It is completely obvious that the gas issue that has been blown up in recent years is a noise curtain that distracts society from all other Ukrainian problems. The authorities, as well as the opposition, benefit from talking about Russian gas, so as not to talk about the main thing: how has Ukraine reached Ruins, and who is to blame for this? Why do Ukrainians live not in “Second France”, as planned in 1991, but in “Second Somalia”? Well, okay, with Somalia, it is still too early to compare us, but just with Mongolia and Albania.

Today, Ukraine is one of the poorest countries in Europe. Gross domestic product per capita at purchasing power parity is 7 374 US dollar (IMF data). Such countries as Albania, Guyana, Namibia, Tonga, Algeria, El Salvador, Micronesia, Kosovo, Iraq, Bhutan, Egypt, Angola, Samoa are located next to Ukraine. Impressive? Belarus is significantly higher than Ukraine with 15 653 and Russia with 17 709 dollars per capita. Our former "brothers" came very close to the European level of GDP. Russia is adjacent to Croatia, Latvia, Hungary, Poland, Estonia, Portugal. Well, let's say Russia's achievements are connected with energy resources, but Belarus does not have oil and gas, and the situation there is radically different from the situation in Ukraine. At the same time, until recently, the prices for Russian gas for Ukrainians and Belarusians were approximately equal. What is the problem? The answer is simple - the problem is the insanity of the Ukrainian leadership and the viciousness of the pro-Western policy pursued.

The GDP of 45 million Ukraine is only 345 billion dollars. GDP 143 million Russia 2 513 billion. At the same time, there is no doubt that the tendency of Ukraine to slide to the African level will continue, as will the tendency of Russia to approach the level of developed European countries, because there is every reason for this.

At the moment I absolutely do not want to talk about the gas suffering of Ukraine, believe me, they are not worth it. The main problem is not in gas, but in the fact that for two decades, the desired investments that would make an "East European tiger" have not come to Ukraine. But there were such conversations. We immediately note Svidomo nonsense about the fact that investment comes in democratic countries. Investments came to South Korea, China and other countries of Southeast Asia, when there did not smell of democracy. Well, it may not be correct to compare Ukraine with some South Korea, but why do investments come to Russia? Here, a skeptic Svidomo will fight hysterically and shout that there is no investment, and I will calmly send it to the site “Made by Us”, where information about the opening of new productions in Russia is regularly published, including with the participation of foreign capital. Alas, Ukraine cannot boast of anything like this. Independent authorities have succeeded only in the construction of grandiose plans, and they do not reach out to their actual implementation. In Russia, everything is somewhat different; if they say something there, they do it. And I don’t care at all what they are doing and how much they steal in Russia, about what, having read this far, my opponents will want to tell me. I am just stating the fact of opening new productions in Russia and a significant lag in this indicator of Ukraine.

The thing is that investments come to those countries in which the appropriate conditions have been created for them. And Russia created such conditions, protecting its market from import of finished products by customs barriers and motivating manufacturers to transfer production to their territory. The Ukrainian authorities did not think about anything like that, and why was it to think? Ukraine went to Europe, and everything is there. Foreign partners supported Ukraine in this integration impulse, because they did not want to spend extra money on the creation of industries and think about the employment of local Aborigines. It was easier for them to import finished products to Ukraine from already operating factories, thereby ensuring the employment of their population. Ukrainians with some kind of foolishness were madly glad that cheap and high-quality products were imported to them, forgetting that the price of this import was the destruction of their own production.

To feel the difference between Ukraine and Russia, briefly consider the situation in the automotive industry. Today, the Russian car market is the second largest car market in Europe after Germany. In 2012 alone, about 2 million cars and 210 thousands of trucks were produced. All these cars are made by all the same Russians. And how does the production of cars in Ukraine feel? For 2012, the 70 thousand cars and 3 thousand trucks were already assembled. Ponder 2 000 000 vs 70 000 passenger car units! It is from here that Russia's GDP is forming per capita, and not just thanks to the oil and gas trade. The government of the Russian Federation pursues a policy of protecting the domestic market, forcing global auto giants to shift production to its territory with obligations to produce auto components in Russia. By the way, the sales market for the Russian car industry is still the same Ukraine.

In Ukraine, only now they attended to the protection of the domestic market, imposed protective duties on the import of imported cars, which to some extent affected the growth of domestic production. However, the trouble is that these fees, judging by the statements of some experts, contradict the obligations assumed by Ukraine upon joining the WTO. That is, it was necessary to save the automaker before entering the WTO.

I would like to draw attention to one more point, which some Ukrainians want not to think about as a achievement of Square. They are proud to say that prices in the Ukrainian market are lower than in Russia. Alas, there is nothing to be proud of, because this is another obstacle that holds back the flow of investment. Any business is looking for a solvent market in order to recover the costs of organizing production. But what investments can there be in a country where the population is barely making ends meet? Moreover, there can be no talk about any investments during a crisis, when manufacturers are forced to reduce production volumes and close already operating enterprises. I remember the recent joke of Viktor Yanukovych that "The full-fledged integration of Ukraine into the EU is still untapped potential for economic growth for Europe." Golden words, and for this, Ukraine is being drawn into the FTA, in order to ensure that Western manufacturers, although not large, but the market for their products. Creating a Free Trade Zone with the European Union will kill the already weak Ukrainian manufacturer.

Watching everything that happens around me, sometimes it seems to me that Ukraine is a country with suicidal tendencies. Everything that is done here, ultimately leads to the destruction of the existing state. Here, it is as if they are deliberately killing the economy and splitting the people, so that one fine day people will say: why do we need this state? What does it give us? Personally, I no longer understand this. This is not a state, but some kind of experimental platform where people are tested for survival.
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  1. sergey32
    sergey32 27 June 2013 17: 36
    14
    I hope that another Bogdan Khmelnitsky will appear at the edge of the abyss in Ukraine.
    1. Ruslan67
      Ruslan67 27 June 2013 18: 15
      17
      If only not Mazepa wassat
      1. MG42
        MG42 27 June 2013 18: 59
        13
        Quote: Ruslan67
        If only not Mazepa

        Where without it, you just have to look in your wallet ..
        1. Ruslan67
          Ruslan67 27 June 2013 19: 03
          14
          Quote: MG42
          you just have to look in your wallet ..

          There are no traitors in my wallet wassat Yes, and foreigners, too, at all times preferred the native ruble but a lot laughing
          1. MG42
            MG42 27 June 2013 19: 05
            +7
            Quote: Ruslan67
            There are no traitors in my wallet

            I will refuse to take dozens of change drinks
        2. cherkas.oe
          cherkas.oe 27 June 2013 19: 27
          -1
          Quote: MG42
          Where without it, you just have to look in your wallet ..

          LIKE MY GRANDFATHER, PADLUK. angry
    2. experienced
      experienced 27 June 2013 18: 22
      15
      When I hear the heartbreaking lamentations of Ukrainian patriots about the gas transportation system of Ukraine as a kind of sacred core on which independence rests, I recall the story of an old woman whose only nurse was a goat ..

      And I remember the story of how an old man went and bought a goat at the market. For a week the old woman milked a goat and the old ones drank fat milk. A week later, the goat became terribly thin and stopped milking. They called a paramedic and said: "Look at the animal, what's wrong with it?" He looked at the animal attentively, felt it everywhere and said: "You got a good kozel, but bullied .. if you ..."
      So the Ukrainian GTS itself I can’t maintain, I can’t repair, but I won’t give it to others either hi
      1. cherkas.oe
        cherkas.oe 27 June 2013 19: 36
        +6
        Quote: seasoned
        : "You got a good kozel, but bullied .. if you did it ..."

        Oh, and your colleague's similar analogies, but true. Really ass .. chili "Ridna nenko" her sons are unlucky, and the edge is not yet visible.
    3. xan
      xan 28 June 2013 11: 40
      +1
      Quote: sergey32
      I hope that another Bogdan Khmelnitsky will appear at the edge of the abyss in Ukraine.

      At one time I read a bunch of literature on this topic, and from different sides, Kostomarov, Valishevsky and others. It seemed that Khmelnitsky did not fully understand what unification with Russia meant. He wanted to live under the roof of Russia, but with privileges for the aristocracy as in Poland. And in Russia since the time of Grozny, the aristocracy was not free, it was obliged to serve the sovereign. Of course, the tsar began to bring Ukraine closer to Russia, which the Ukrainian "powers that be" did not like. But lawlessness towards the peasants began to decline. Khmelnitsky, realizing, washed down and died. The foreman began to rebel, but there is no arguing against scrap, and even among the poor Russia was in authority. Example - Still alive Khmelnitsky sent troops to help the Hungarians against the Poles. When the Cossacks learned that the campaign was not permitted by the king, they turned back halfway.
      Global trick failed
    4. Lukich
      Lukich 28 June 2013 13: 35
      0
      ... Belarus buys gas for $ 160. We for $ 400 - feel the difference - comrade arithmometer ...

      ... but basically I like your indifference Dear Mr. Lunev, you have a little analytics and everything will be almost normal ...
      1. xan
        xan 28 June 2013 13: 55
        0
        Quote: Lukich
        Belarus buys gas for $ 160. We for $ 400 - feel the difference - comrade arithmometer ...

        nothing happens for free, especially from the Kremlin lads
  2. il grand casino
    il grand casino 27 June 2013 18: 12
    +3
    Watching everything that happens around me, sometimes it seems to me that Ukraine is a country with suicidal tendencies. Everything that is done here, ultimately leads to the destruction of the existing state. Here, it is as if they are deliberately killing the economy and splitting the people, so that one fine day people will say: why do we need this state? What does it give us? Personally, I no longer understand this. This is not a state, but some kind of experimental platform where people are tested for survival.


    And why not the same amers create such a platform on the border with Russia? However, I hope everything will work out
  3. krez-74
    krez-74 27 June 2013 18: 15
    11
    Not wanting to, Ukraine has become another Maidan for the multiplication of "democratic" values ​​and new deposits from handouts to the European Union and the Administrators of the Light!
    1. sashka
      sashka 27 June 2013 18: 37
      -3
      Quote: krez-74
      Not wanted, shchob Ukraine

      It’s probably hard for you to control the keyboard. But you can just in Russian ..
      1. krez-74
        krez-74 27 June 2013 18: 47
        12
        It’s hard to put on pants over your head! Those who want, and those who need it, they will understand.
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. Corneli
            Corneli 27 June 2013 20: 41
            +1
            Quote: Avenger711
            We don't want to. You cannot recognize the main language of communication as an official one, treat us with your "To Ukraine", so also drag your MOV here. No, if you please speak here in a generally understandable language, that is, Russian literary.
            And take your plus bots also to hell.

            Oh!!! Look who's Talking!!! About "bots" !!! Take "your" "Truffoff" is it not your bot by the way?) And it is too similar)))) Especially: "I created this account especially for Ukrainians" (the quote is unfortunately not literal (but the meaning is conveyed correctly). And the boy minus, he is rude ... he is out of tune ... and the rules ... he is a plus for himself, he is handsome!)
            P.S. Personally, I have ONE! ACCOUNT !!! And I hope I will not go down to the level of your "URYA-BOTOV" .... although sometimes I WANT IT like that !!! (
            1. Avenger711
              Avenger711 28 June 2013 02: 13
              +2
              A question for the administration, why should the generally accepted requirement to use a generally understood language violate something, that it will be deleted?
            2. Conepatus
              Conepatus 28 June 2013 10: 42
              0
              There will not be two registrations here. Try it. You will enjoy the day. And after a day, even as a visitor, you will not be able to enter the site.
        2. velikoros-xnumx
          velikoros-xnumx 28 June 2013 11: 56
          0
          Those. do you consider the modern Ukrainian language to be native and natural? This is not a language in the full sense of the word, it is a mixture of languages ​​- Old Church Slavonic, Polish, Russian, etc. It is not embarrassing that practically no one in Ukraine understood this language before the Bolsheviks came to power. For theatrical performances in the Ukrainian "language" they filmed and drove whole shifts from factories forcibly. And in general, the concept of "Ukrainian" people is not correct and historically does not correspond to reality (I do not take into account the westernism), just as the concept of "Russian" people is not correct. It would be more correct to say "Russian" peoples as part of Great Russians, Little Russians and, of course, Belarusians.
      2. fokino1980
        fokino1980 28 June 2013 10: 07
        +1
        Yes, let him write in his native is his right! The main thing is true! wink
  4. Grigorich 1962
    Grigorich 1962 27 June 2013 18: 18
    15
    Much has been written now about Ukraine ... and most of this is in hard-hitting colors ... about the Leadership, about the economy, about gas, about the armed forces, etc. etc. During the so-called. "Nezalezhnosti" Ukraine is torn apart by political strife affecting the entire course of events in the life of the people of Ukraine. And the most important thing is that the gap is not visible in the short term. It is said a lot that in 2017 there will be a final turn for the better ..... someone, on the contrary, predicts that the 17th year will be the final one in the collapse of Ukraine. And the people living on this land ... and the Ukrainians, Russians, Tatars, Jews, etc. cannot understand what kind of country they have such ... well, everything is not so ... like in Europe, but before European level to her as to Mars.
    Remember how in Soviet times ... Ukraine is the breadbasket of the USSR, and then there was so much speculation about the fact that Ukraine feeds everyone, and they say they are malnourished ..... times have changed ... No one is called "breadbasket" anymore , ... I would like to make ends meet ... maybe the understanding has come for some that Ukraine is only strong when it is in the Union ... or as it is fashionable to say "In a team" ... far from everyone ... Therefore, the strife ..... Since the beginning of the history of Ukraine, it has such a difficult fate .... I would say long-suffering ... it is a pity that this is how everything happens. In the Union of Slavic states of Belarus, Ukraine and Russia, it would be much easier for us to live, develop and defend ourselves. One people - one country !!
    (repeat from 12.06/XNUMX)
  5. MG42
    MG42 27 June 2013 18: 27
    +6
    When I hear the heartbreaking lamentations of Ukrainian patriots about the gas transportation system of Ukraine as a kind of sacred core on which independence rests, I recall the story of an old woman whose goat was the only nurse.

    If this GTS pipe remains without gas, then it’s just scrap metal, the transit of Russian gas is falling through Ukraine every year ..
    Meanwhile, they are building up through the northern stream and through Belarus, and they also began to build the southern stream ..
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 27 June 2013 22: 56
      +8
      Quote: MG42
      GTS pipe

      The GTS pipe is a symbol of Ukraine's independence! (as our oppositionists assure) In short - we will not give up the pipe "And in general -" Our business is the pipe! " laughing
      1. MG42
        MG42 28 June 2013 11: 48
        +2
        Quote: Egoza
        GTS pipe is a symbol of Ukraine’s independence!

        She is also called a "sacred cow" which cannot be cut and in general some people "pray" for her in parliament laughing
  6. andrey777
    andrey777 27 June 2013 18: 30
    12
    I put a plus article, but Ukraine is very sorry. It's time for the guys to join us, then we will earn together!
    1. velikoros-xnumx
      velikoros-xnumx 28 June 2013 12: 15
      +1
      It's hard to disagree with you, Andrey, but unfortunately the whole of modern Ukraine is unlikely to organically and firmly merge with Russia (of course, provided that Russia itself will have an order and understanding of this need) is more likely an infusion of eastern Ukraine and Crimea. We need each other and no one but ourselves, no one will help us. The industry of Ukraine was an integral part of the huge Soviet industry. With the loss of Ukraine, we have lost a lot, but Ukraine has lost even more. We can do without the Ukrainian component of Soviet industry (it was not necessary to produce ballistic components on Yuzhmash, aircraft engines on Motor Sich, tanks on the Kharkov Tractor) Ukraine is unlikely to exist. Although it’s very unfortunate that we are forced to do without Ukrainian aircraft engines, without Ukrainian aircraft (the AN-70 is a separate issue altogether - a magnificent aircraft has become a victim of political conditions, and in this situation, on our part), and indeed without a lot of things. Together we are stronger, together we are richer, together we are better - the last twenty years have clearly confirmed this.
  7. Kars
    Kars 27 June 2013 18: 32
    +3
    GTS and supposedly expensive Russian gas,


    TOTED TO JACOB)))

    but back in 2005 its price was only $ 50 !!
    Once oil was not expensive. And how much did transit cost? And how much was not for Ukraine?


    The idea was good - but Yusch didn’t have enough eggs to fulfill, and Timokha’s lack of a clean criminal past.

    But the article for the Source http://www.ruska-pravda.com/ is just awesome. It is unclear just what she is doing on Military Review.
    1. fisherman
      fisherman 27 June 2013 19: 57
      +2
      if the gas price leads to domestic, then Ukraine will become France-2?
      1. revnagan
        revnagan 27 June 2013 21: 16
        +2
        Quote: fisherman
        if the gas price leads to domestic, then Ukraine will become France-2?

        Look at the Ukrainian billionaires and their fortunes, they are practically not inferior to the Russian ones. Despite the fact that Ukraine loses in comparison with Russia in many respects (take the same natural resources). At whose expense is this banquet? In order for the standard of living in our country grew, it is necessary that our oligari plundered the state in proportion to its resources. That is, you just need to steal less and leave more funds in the economy of the state. But this is not allowed by the mentality: “I’m not going to bite.” And this is only from Ukrainians. there are Tatars, Jews, Moldovans ...
        1. Misantrop
          Misantrop 27 June 2013 21: 23
          +6
          Quote: revnagan
          You look at the Ukrainian billionaires and their status, they are practically not inferior to the Russian.
          Yes, it is not necessary to look at the state, but at the percentage of the number of rich people to the total population. This is where the PERMAISE will be. Naturally, all other Ukrainian citizens live below the baseboard ... request
        2. MG42
          MG42 27 June 2013 21: 31
          +5
          Quote: revnagan
          You look at the Ukrainian billionaires and their status, they are practically not inferior to the Russian.

          Considering that the level of salaries and pensions in Ukraine is lower than the Russian ones, and the rich are approximately equal, this indicates that the stratification of society in Ukraine is greater, therefore, in theory, the more likely there are protests / riots, the mentality of the hut from the edge may not work as a fuse. .
        3. Corneli
          Corneli 27 June 2013 21: 43
          0
          Quote: revnagan
          You look at the Ukrainian billionaires and their status, they are practically not inferior to the Russian.

          This is not true! Neither quantitative nor "qualitative") equivalent. The same could have been written about the GDP))) Like "practically" ...
          Quote: revnagan
          And this is only among Ukrainians. And there are also Tatars, Jews, Moldavians ...

          The column "nationality" in Ukrainian. passport is missing ... so the "rich" can be "Tatars, Jews, Moldovans ...")
  8. sashka
    sashka 27 June 2013 18: 33
    -5
    If you probably do not know what it is about Ukraine, then I would have thought that it was about Russia. Belarusians are great. And Russia with such resources and opportunities is a shame. It is proud of the neighborhood on the list with Croatia and Hungary. The insanity that they pass off as an achievement.
    Well ? Glory to Pu !!
    1. fisherman
      fisherman 27 June 2013 19: 58
      +2
      Kuchma ... Yushchenko ... Yanukovych ...

      "And nothing has changed..."
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. revnagan
        revnagan 28 June 2013 10: 48
        +1
        Quote: fisherman
        Kuchma ... Yushchenko ... Yanukovych ... "but things are still there ..."

        Just like in a fable ... "once a swan with cancer pike ..."
    2. Avenger711
      Avenger711 28 June 2013 02: 10
      0
      Do not exaggerate the resources of Russia. And to Belarus in the 90s somehow the West did not care, it is too small.
    3. piter-tank
      piter-tank 28 June 2013 10: 14
      0
      Yes, no one is particularly proud. The fact is simply constants. On the other hand, the question is - who compiles all these ratings and lists? What does Croatia and Hungary have more than ours? Why is 1 Latvian lats equal to 61 rubles, more expensive than the British pound? And so on ... There are many questions, but few answers. What to twist with our souls - we live well, we can do it better, but always something interferes.
  9. Corneli
    Corneli 27 June 2013 18: 38
    +9
    Great article! I even gave her a plus! For a long time, Unthinkable! (((It's time for the freaks from power to think not only about the trough, but also about the PEOPLE! Only one thing killed ... comparison "To feel the difference between Ukraine and Russia, let's briefly consider the situation in the automotive industry. Today the Russian car market is the second largest car market in Europe after Germany. In 2012 alone, about 2 million cars and 210 thousand trucks were produced. "And do not tell me, my dear, WHAT cars are you mentioning here? Assembly workshops Ford, Toyota, Renault, Opel ... and others? Back in 2010, these brands (assembly shops ... ugh) made Russia half of the production of cars !!! And I don't think that the situation has improved. Maybe, of course, Euro-American Japanese brands are bent and the whole world is gagging for "Lada-Kalina", well, or other derivatives of VAZ-GAZ ... BUT! Excuse me, I am tormented by vague doubts that this is true! (
    P.S. Eh ... Russia and investments ... It seems that you (the writer of this article) are not that in. You don’t read the press, but there is zero attention to this resource of attention! But, on this site, about investments and other things, there were quite a few articles (((
    P.S. However, I sincerely believe! No matter what, Russia will still rise up! And not on a piece of paper, as by and large now ... but for real! That's just advice to such "scribblers"! LOOK AT YOUR COUNTRY !!! WORK FOR YOUR COUNTRY !!!! Damn, really, it hurts to become, a huge COUNTRY !!! Which has EVERYTHING !!! But don't use this nito! ((In the normal sense of the word!)
    P.S.S. Well, about the "miserable understatement of Ukraine", everything seems to be clear here ... BUT, "Russia is adjacent to Croatia, Latvia, Hungary, Poland, Estonia, Portugal." SOC! THIS IS!!! Reason for pride ??? Why write such a thing? (PPTs! I can't put it into my head (
    1. Avenger711
      Avenger711 27 June 2013 20: 13
      +3
      You are clearly told that the components are manufactured here. In general, KAMAZ produces as many trucks per week as KRAZ per year.

      That's just advice to such "scribblers"! LOOK AT YOUR COUNTRY !!! WORK FOR YOUR COUNTRY !!!! Damn, really, it hurts to become, a huge COUNTRY !!! Which has EVERYTHING !!! But don't use this nito! ((In the normal sense of the word


      But essentially have something to say? Or, as usual, a record of how bad it is in Russia, which bypasses Ukraine at times.
    2. Misantrop
      Misantrop 27 June 2013 22: 09
      +5
      Quote: Corneli
      But do not tell me, my dear, WHAT cars do you mention here?
      And let's remember the ONLY Ukrainian car used stable demand all the time of its production, and even now the price is not falling. Yes, that same LuAZ, just a fantastic all-terrain vehicle for its money. And WHERE IS IT WHERE?
    3. Aucraig
      Aucraig 28 June 2013 02: 00
      +4
      Assembly shops Ford, Toyota, Renault, Opel ... or VAZ, GAZ ... What's the difference? These plants operate on the territory of Russia, taxes are paid to the treasury of Russia, and Russian citizens work at these enterprises. And, ultimately, these enterprises work for Russia, and will remain in Russia. So what's the problem? What's bad about it?
      1. Avenger711
        Avenger711 28 June 2013 02: 08
        0
        The problem of how the loot is divided, if it goes abroad, it’s bad.
        1. Misantrop
          Misantrop 28 June 2013 09: 55
          0
          Quote: Avenger711
          The problem of how the loot is divided if it goes abroad
          With the same success, the loot is transferred to offshore and the owners of fully domestic developments, so now it is - as if not a criterion at all ...
  10. MG42
    MG42 27 June 2013 18: 41
    +5
    The GDP of 45 million Ukraine is only 345 billion dollars.

    Perhaps less GDP, although when you consider the shadow sector of the economy .. request
    The population of Ukraine in 1991 was 52 million people, now it is 7 million less and there was no war and famine, but everything is decreasing, mortality is more than the birth rate and it leaves a lot for permanent residence .. and a lot of people are employed permanently
    1. Corneli
      Corneli 27 June 2013 19: 04
      -7
      Quote: MG42
      the population of Ukraine was in 1991 = 52 million people, now it is 7 million less and there was no war and famine, but everything is decreasing, mortality is more than the birth rate and it leaves a lot for permanent residence .. and a lot of people are employed permanently

      YES but !:
      1. And how is Russia doing with this?
      2. I think with the demography of "developed Europe" is also in the know (nifiga she's not in the black! Unless you count the "refugee-emigrants" of the Arabs)))
      3. And at the end! At the age of 90, on the street, to see a pregnant woman (in Ukraine) it was a direct "miracle", now, but it's a problem ... (and the fact that a gap of 10 years without fertility makes itself felt ... well, I think it's understandable)
      1. MG42
        MG42 27 June 2013 19: 42
        +4
        Quote: Corneli
        1. And how is Russia doing with this?

        There will be a branch about Russia, and we'll talk there, Ukrainian subjects are closer to me ..
        Quote: Corneli
        Except of course not counting the "refugee-emigrants" of the Arabs)))

        An important addition
        Quote: Corneli
        And at the end! At 90, on the street, to see a pregnant woman (in Ukraine) was a real "miracle", now, but it's a problem ...

        If you know, now the payout program is working at the birth of a child in Ukraine, at the birth of the second more, the third more but still there would be no increase if there weren’t payments like in the 90s, for example, there weren’t any = then things were deplorable ..
        1. Corneli
          Corneli 27 June 2013 19: 59
          -4
          Quote: MG42
          There will be a branch about Russia, and we'll talk there, Ukrainian subjects are closer to me ..

          It is unlikely that I will see an "adequate Russian branch" here ... everything in Russia is so "great" that it is horrible!
          Quote: MG42
          Except of course not counting the "refugee-emigrants" of the Arabs)))
          An important addition

          "Adequate" addition, I do not consider Russian Gaster ... or Ukrainian (there are also such) population growth. Because this "increase" from the mountain to the country where they arrived

          Quote: MG42
          If you know, now the payout program is working at the birth of a child in Ukraine, at the birth of the second more, the third more but still there would be no increase if there weren’t payments like in the 90s, for example, there weren’t any = then things were deplorable ..

          Of course in the know! I have 3 children!!! My sister has 3 children !!! At the same time, we are not immigrants (refugees), but "indigenous people!) Children, from 8 to 2 years old !!! (that is, the" program "has been working for a long time) That's just the question of the" pit "-" 90-2000 "- this is not takes off!
          1. MG42
            MG42 27 June 2013 20: 05
            +4
            Quote: Corneli
            Of course in the know! I have 3 children!!! My sister has 3 children !!! Moreover, we are not immigrants (refugees) but "indigenous people!)

            what can I say, take off my hat .. hi
            Quote: Corneli
            that is, the "program" has been working for a long time)

            However, I read about cases when they give birth only for the purpose to get a mate. help, then more orphans become more .., in order to prevent this, payments were extended over time ..
            1. Corneli
              Corneli 27 June 2013 20: 13
              +1
              Quote: MG42
              what can I say, take off my hat .. hi

              Quote: MG42
              However, I read about cases when they give birth only for the purpose to get a mate. help, then more orphans become more .., in order to prevent this, payments were extended over time ..

              AND? There were always enough freaks ... it was, is and will be! Here Ukraine is not a priority. And according to normal, xs like there in Russia, during this period of time, and in Ukraine, they were afraid to give birth! Until people began to somehow believe in the future ... And the point is not only in payments, but corny in belief in some kind of stability. Another question is that oh-ya pit for at least 10 years! this is a complete ug! (
          2. Avenger711
            Avenger711 27 June 2013 20: 19
            0
            My dear, the population of the Central Asian republics is so small that their gasters cannot give any significant increase, they are not visible at all outside of Moscow. And everyone who could leave for Moscow has already left. Ukrainian Gaster, most likely, will not return to Ukraine at all.
            1. Corneli
              Corneli 27 June 2013 20: 56
              -1
              Quote: Avenger711
              My dear, the population of the Central Asian republics is so small that their gasters cannot give any significant increase, they are not visible at all outside of Moscow. And everyone who could leave for Moscow has already left. Ukrainian Gaster, most likely, will not return to Ukraine at all.

              "My dear" - According to you, countries with a total population of 66 million people will not give "growth", but Ukraine will give 45 million for granted! In Ukraine, everything is straight, well, uchen bad !!! And where are the "Central Asian countries / republics to take" !!))) I xs ... the feeling that you were released from the cellar with the TV (excuse me), well, such fantasies ... kapets just! And from your "Ukrainian Gaster, most likely, they will not return to Ukraine at all." - I generally cackle !!! lol Considering how many "defectors" I have known !!!) And in their HEADS THERE IS SUCH nonsense (WOOKS !!! "BANDER"! Well, I can't just !!))) DIDN'T COME!
              1. Avenger711
                Avenger711 28 June 2013 02: 06
                -1
                66 Million, even a quarter of them, will come to hunchback to Russia, with mostly men, families sitting at home, and 143 million in Russia. Are 14 million people, and mostly males, able to influence demography in Russia?

                There is no gain from your lads either. Our local women give birth. Unlike yours. In general, you are a thick troll. It is strange that you don’t understand that you yourself are showing such nonsense that you have nothing to object to.
                1. Corneli
                  Corneli 28 June 2013 03: 38
                  +1
                  Quote: Avenger711
                  66 Million, even a quarter of them, will come to hunchback to Russia, with mostly men, families sitting at home, and 143 million in Russia. Are 14 million people, and mostly males, able to influence demography in Russia?

                  I’m wondering, did you even understand WHAT you wrote?) According to yours, 14 MILLION HEALTHY MEN! (albeit Asian appearance))) working at least a few months without access to their women will not want ANYTHING?) lol Do they have "chastity belts" attached? By the way, according to your "statistics" there are 3 Russians (of reproductive age) - 1 Central Asian. But apparently entot Asiatic toli monk, toli impotent. Your logic "but the comment" is simple
                  1. xan
                    xan 28 June 2013 12: 36
                    0
                    Quote: Corneli
                    I'm wondering if you yourself at least understood WHAT you wrote?) According to your 14 MILLION HEALTHY MEN! (albeit Asian in appearance))) working for at least several months without access to their women will they want ANYTHING?) lol Do they have "chastity belts" attached? By the way, according to your "statistics" there are 3 Russians (of reproductive age) - 1 Central Asian. But apparently entot Asiatic toli monk, toli impotent. Your logic "but the comment" is simple

                    It is important that a woman wants. In Russia, maybe you have a girlfriend.
                    understand shustryak? Blow off
              2. revnagan
                revnagan 28 June 2013 10: 54
                0
                Quote: Corneli
                And from your "Ukrainian Gaster, most likely, they will not return to Ukraine at all." - I generally cackle !!!

                The one who laughs last is a good laugh. Here, of my acquaintances, two families have remained in Russia. In Obninsk and in Moscow itself. We have obtained citizenship and are not going back.
      2. Avenger711
        Avenger711 27 June 2013 20: 15
        +4
        And in Russia in 2012, there were not enough 2500 people for natural growth, this year it will obviously be, and taking into account migration, the population is already growing.
        The streets are full of women with spikes.
        1. zennon
          zennon 27 June 2013 21: 31
          -5
          The streets are full of women with spikes.

          From which narrow-eyed peeps ...
      3. fokino1980
        fokino1980 28 June 2013 10: 14
        +1
        Purely "hellish" approach. Am I fucked up? And you got fucked too !!! I watch TV programs in Ukraine, all political debates are held in this way! wink
        1. MG42
          MG42 28 June 2013 11: 54
          +2
          Quote: fokino1980
          Did I get into it? And you, too, lied! I’m watching TV programs in Ukraine, all the political debates are being held here!

          The style of DOSA itself is in fashion throughout the independence in Ukrainian polit. talk show. It’s also a fashionable translation of arrows to Russia, you just have to write something critical at the Ukrainian forum about the situation in Ukraine, you will jump out Svidomo and start talking, you look in Russia like that, or even worse than ours lol
    2. Avenger711
      Avenger711 28 June 2013 02: 07
      0
      And 140+ the population of Russia has since decreased by only 2 million and is now growing.
  11. MG42
    MG42 27 June 2013 18: 50
    +3
    Everything that is done here ultimately leads to the destruction of the existing state.

    This is embedded in the anthem of Ukraine. 1st line is eloquent ..
    This is not a state, but some kind of experimental site where people are tested for survival.

    You can’t say more precisely.
    Each president promises and does nothing, the latter promised <life of the life> = translation to improve the life of the people, but things are still there, for everything like high prices for Russian gas are to blame ..
  12. 128mgb
    128mgb 27 June 2013 19: 11
    +4
    Quote: Ruslan67
    If only not Mazepa wassat

    Yes, you are right, the fifth in a row Ukraine can’t stand it for sure.
  13. The comment was deleted.
  14. roosewelt
    roosewelt 27 June 2013 19: 19
    +4
    The author of the article all the time talks about foreign investment, as a panacea for the economy. But this is not so! Foreign investment will not bring anything good to the country's economy. Citizens will work in industries owned by foreigners, where they will be exploited in full, and cream will be removed by foreigners.
    I remember one of the first superinvestments in Lviv - the construction of the Coca-Cola plant, which was presented as an unprecedented breakthrough. But the result of this: the plant employed about 100 people. (I don’t know how it is now), the salaries are rather big, but not sky-high, the plant's products (in fact, poisoned water) are sold at almost the price of gasoline, and fabulous profits float abroad. And what are 100 jobs compared to the liquidation of, for example, the Electron plant, which employed thousands of people and produced high-tech products, not water?
    The truth is that we don’t need investments, but we need new industrialization at the expense of the budget - the "gold and foreign exchange reserves" of the National Bank should be spent on the purchase of equipment and construction of our own production facilities, and not wait until inflation eats them up. But the world behind the scenes will not allow this.
    1. Avenger711
      Avenger711 27 June 2013 20: 20
      +1
      You need a normal political device, in the form of regions of the Russian Federation.
      1. revnagan
        revnagan 27 June 2013 21: 30
        +3
        Quote: Avenger711
        You need a normal political device, in the form of regions of the Russian Federation.

        We need a normal president, like "father" Lukashenko. Here I would vote for him ... Otherwise, again we will vote not "FOR" but "AGAINST".
        1. Egoza
          Egoza 27 June 2013 22: 18
          +6
          Quote: revnagan
          We need a normal president, like "father" Lukashenko. Here I would vote for him ... Otherwise, again we will vote not "FOR" but "AGAINST".

          I support! With all due respect to S. Lunev, his "bewilderment" is surprising. And "the casket just opens. Without further ado, chrvy two messages:
          During the presidency of Viktor Yanukovych, the number of millionaires in Ukraine has increased dramatically. This is stated in the response of the Ministry of Revenue and Duties to the media information request.
          “During the presidency of Yushchenko, the number of millionaires has increased. So, in 2005, the income of more than 1 million hryvnias was declared by 586 people. Next year, the number of such citizens doubled, ”the response says.
          In 2007, in Ukraine there was 1424 of a millionaire, in 2008 - 1672. However, in 2009, their number decreased slightly. The income of more than 1 million was declared by 1286 people.
          In the 2010 year, when Viktor Yanukovych became the President of the country, 1 citizens received income of more than 1537 million hryvnias. In the 2011 year, they became 2291, and in the past - more than 3200 people.
          As you know, half of the legal Ukrainian billionaires live in the Donetsk region.
          This year, the number of millionaires in the capital was 1362, which is 325 more than in the past.
          http://www.vremia.ua/news/1716.php

          President of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko demands that stores be provided with domestic products in sufficient quantities. He set this task on June 11 at a meeting on the development of the industrial complex and the sale of Belarusian products, BelTA learned from the press service of the head of state.

          Addressing the governors and the Ministry of Trade, Alexander Lukashenko urged them to resolve the issue of filling the country's stores with domestic products. "Every store should contain a Belarusian product: from napkins to meat and milk. There can be no more talk on this topic! God forbid, someone from the control authorities will go into the store and there will be no Belarusian - blame yourself," he warned head of state.

          The President believes that the current moment allows focusing on product quality.

          "Quality is the number one question! If this quality is not there, it is akin to a crime!" - stressed the head of state.

          The President drew attention to the fact that the state created the conditions for the successful work of all sectors of the economy, and therefore has the right to strictly ask for results.

          “Today, industrialists and builders consume natural gas, like Germany, at $ 400 per 1 cubic meters? No. At least two times cheaper,” Alexander Lukashenko noted. “Do you consume oil at world prices today? ? For half the price. This is the state's contribution. You were given good conditions, what else are you waiting for? Tell me what you need for you to start working tomorrow twice as better than in Germany, or at least on a par with Germany! "

          “Today you have received from the state something that neither Ukraine nor the European Union has, - said the head of state. - Start working. Everything is in your hands - in the hands of heads of enterprises and ministers."
          http://www.belta.by/ru/all_news/president/Lukashenko-trebuet-v-dostatochnom-obje
          me-obespechit-magaziny-otechestvennoj-produktsiej_i_637673.html
          xxxxx
          So who increases what - one millionaires, another - domestic products
          1. Corneli
            Corneli 27 June 2013 23: 37
            0
            Dear Egoza, your comment about Lukashenka contains a lot of true and correct things ... BUT! Dictators, tyrants, kings, emperors, etc. ... are solely rulers ... No matter how smart, correct and honest they may be from the outset ... over time they tend to fall into "senile marasmus", and if they do not fall (there were exceptions ), then as the saying goes "on children, nature rests geniuses!" (remember Lukashenka and his 11-year-old "successor", where is the guarantee that this is not a new chest of drawers?)
            Anyway ... right now, Lukashenko is being praised ... and if you rummage through the archives of the same site ... some a couple of years ago ... he was pissed off by PPC! (I hope people turned on their memory and remembered why))). Then he was "homo-inadequate". schA he is in the vehicle, he seems to be on friendly terms with Russia, and he is like a cool one! And where is the guarantee that in a year it will not be bent? And again we will see comments from those who praise him that he is "... a wanderer .." rare?
            1. Egoza
              Egoza 27 June 2013 23: 58
              +2
              Quote: Corneli
              Dictators, tyrants, kings, emperors, etc. ... are solely rulers ... No matter how smart, correct and honest they may be from the outset ... over time they tend to fall into "senile marasmus",

              I agree, dear Oleg! But in this case I am comparing the situation "today". Let's not get too far into the future. It's just that with this approach to ITS industry, BR will still have a good chance in the future, and people are getting used to having OWN. But here, to my great regret, the people will not see anything worthwhile, except for new millionaires.
          2. revnagan
            revnagan 28 June 2013 10: 57
            0
            Quote: Egoza
            So who increases what - one millionaires,

            And the police ....
      2. Corneli
        Corneli 27 June 2013 21: 52
        0
        Quote: Avenger711
        You need a normal political device, in the form of regions of the Russian Federation.

        1. Ukraine will be smaller than Russia ... "guberniya" I think too much.
        2. Are the regions like honest "homeless governors" (a mustache for the people!) Like Abramovich or Kadyrov?
    2. MG42
      MG42 27 June 2013 20: 42
      +3
      Quote: roosewelt
      The author of the article all the time talks about foreign investment, as a panacea for the economy. But this is not so! Foreign investment will not bring anything good to the country's economy.

      One of the main foreign investors in the Ukrainian economy was Cyprus, of course, before the famous events lol , these are our oligarchs simply by means of schemes "invested" in the Ukrainian economy in order to avoid paying taxes ..
      1. Corneli
        Corneli 28 June 2013 03: 51
        +1
        Quote: MG42
        One of the main foreign investors in the Ukrainian economy was Cyprus, before the well-known events, of course lol, these are our oligarchs simply by means of schemes "invested" in the Ukrainian economy in order to avoid paying taxes ..

        The topic with Cyprus, of course it’s muddy and what’s so lousy there, who few actually knew (from ordinary inhabitants of our countries). But according to published estimates, the approximate loss of the Ukrainian oligarchs = $ 100-200 million. Russian = up to $ 2 billion ... I think the numbers speak for themselves ...
        P.S. Actually, they themselves would have thought b, why should Russia give billions of loans to Cyprus (like Iceland at the time, too, a sweet poster) if there is no Russian money there?
        1. MG42
          MG42 28 June 2013 12: 07
          +2
          Quote: Corneli
          The theme with Cyprus, of course it’s muddy and how much of what was stored there, few actually know

          You don’t understand, I’m not talking about money, but about the legal registration of firms "foreign investors" behind which the ears of local oligarchs stick out, money can be stored anywhere, bank transfer is not a problem ..
          Quote: Corneli
          But according to published estimates, the approximate loss of the Ukrainian oligarchs = $ 100-200 million. Russian = up to $ 2 billion ... I think the numbers speak for themselves ...

          And again, the transfer to Russia winked our oligarchs are more distant than Russian oligarchs wassat seers ..
          Quote: Corneli
          Actually, they themselves would have thought b, why should Russia give billions of loans to Cyprus (like Iceland at the time, too, a sweet poster) if there is no Russian money there?

          The topic with Cyprus was lobbied by some political forces, there were still very old trade and other agreements rooted in the USSR >>>
          The constructive use of the Cyprus double tax treaty network has provided significant benefits to businesses and individuals who choose to establish legal entities in Cyprus. Double taxation avoidance agreements in Cyprus and in most countries supersede local tax laws and are therefore a useful tax planning tool aimed at protecting businesses and individuals from double taxation of income earned in other countries.
  15. Shumer
    Shumer 27 June 2013 19: 26
    +6
    Ukraine is a country of paradoxes - smart, intelligent people (well, there are some freaks in the family, there are also fools), rich chernozems, aircraft manufacturing, tank building, space rockets, heavy industry, the energy complex is not weak, we are building ships, artificial crystals for the electronics industry we grow (though everything is exported at a cheap price, but still ...), etc., etc. - But we live on a par with African countries.
    1. Avenger711
      Avenger711 27 June 2013 20: 22
      10
      And because all this was built with a focus on the USSR. And what is being done right now, only God knows. Ukraine is like a severed arm, and Russia is a body that can somehow regenerate and rebuild something. The hand cannot do anything.
    2. MG42
      MG42 27 June 2013 20: 26
      +4
      Quote: Shumer
      but we live on a par with African countries.

      And didn’t you wonder why?
      Yesterday the video laid out eloquent, less need to steal bully Since instead of building a good road, officials prefer to slander this money and buy an SUV for themselves and successfully overcome the problem, but who are the judges? also take bribes, covering officials = hand washes a hand ..
      and also Ukravtodor will always provide patching = profitable business to lay asphalt in rain and snow ..
      and so what sphere do not take ..
      1. Corneli
        Corneli 28 June 2013 03: 56
        +3
        Quote: MG42
        and also Ukravtodor will always provide patching = profitable business to lay asphalt in rain and snow ..
        and so what sphere do not take ..

        Well, Ukraine is a poor and small country ... As I look at a lope there is a meter of road to Sochi, so I think there are Ukravtodorsky pood toads just start to choke ... in flocks ... with such "drank" ...)
        1. fokino1980
          fokino1980 28 June 2013 10: 19
          -1
          And what do you dear friend (God forbid, of course) know about Sochi ???? Write garbage, the question has not been studied! Sit down "deuce" am
    3. dark_65
      dark_65 27 June 2013 20: 38
      0
      Knowing the country has not yet been baked, but when it is baked, then Russian will be remembered.
  16. Bokdan1700
    Bokdan1700 27 June 2013 19: 39
    +4
    If it weren’t for oil and gas, the Russian economy would have looked even worse than the Ukrainian one. Both countries are on a suicidal path imposed by the World Bank on degradation. An example of progress — Belarus, industry, and agriculture — has stepped over indicators under the USSR.
    1. Avenger711
      Avenger711 27 June 2013 20: 24
      +2
      Do you know that Russia produces 10 times less oil per capita than Saudi Arabia? So do not la la la la. The sale of energy resources is even more profitable than the sale of any phones, because you keep the buyer with eggs in a vice.
    2. xan
      xan 28 June 2013 13: 23
      0
      Quote: Bokdan1700
      If it weren’t for oil and gas, the Russian economy would have looked even worse than the Ukrainian one.

      In the 90s there was oil and gas, and what, they sat in the pope.
      In Nigeria, there is oil, and that is still sitting in the pope.
      If Ukraine had oil and gas - an example of Nigeria and Romania, or Russia of the 90s, the rich would be even richer, but under the hood of the West.
  17. darksoul
    darksoul 27 June 2013 19: 51
    +5
    Quote: Shumer
    Ukraine is a country of paradoxes



    A country as a country is a people in itself, power in itself, but it has become simpler with us, and right now, in my opinion, something similar to our dashing 90s. In any case, the West fulfilled its task perfectly ... quarreled between two fraternal peoples
    1. zennon
      zennon 27 June 2013 22: 49
      +5
      Quote: darksoul
      Quote: Shumer
      Ukraine is a country of paradoxes

      In any case, the West fulfilled its task perfectly ... quarreled between two fraternal peoples

      It all started much earlier. Lenin and Khrushchev squandered, giving away Donbas and Crimea. Out of the blue, two ushlepki split!
  18. individual
    individual 27 June 2013 20: 52
    +4
    All the problems of Ukraine are that the Ukrainian authorities are in a "raskoryak" half bent over to step either into the "EU", or into the "TS".
    And the knees tremble with tension ...
    1. fisherman
      fisherman 27 June 2013 21: 17
      +1
      in

      and all subsequent Ukrainian authorities will also stand in the same "sic" position

      since the root cause lies in two different identities: western and eastern
  19. revnagan
    revnagan 27 June 2013 21: 43
    +2
    Quote: individ
    All the problems of Ukraine are that the Ukrainian authorities are in a "raskoryak" half bent over to step either into the "EU", or into the "TS".

    The Ukrainian authorities are not going anywhere. Why do they need the EU, they already live at the level of the richest Europeans, are treated in Europe, capital in Europe, children in Europe ... They are also not in the Customs Union - the Russian oligarchs will swallow them. The Ukrainian authorities are trying to simply knocking down the "gesheft" both from Europe and from Russia, are filling their own worth. However, they played too much, it's 2013, and the authorities live in 2000m. All their "tricks" both the EU and Russia have long figured out. In Europe, the tricks of the Ukrainian government Everyone is satisfied. Russia is not yet able to force Ukraine to join, and no one cares about ordinary people in this kotovasia.
    1. zennon
      zennon 27 June 2013 21: 55
      +1
      revnagan
      What you say is not without logic. But
      Ukrainian authorities are not going anywhere. Why do they need the EU

      it won't work for a long time! We must do something. So it's not far from the social revolution!
      1. Corneli
        Corneli 27 June 2013 22: 10
        +1
        Quote: zennon
        it won't work for a long time! We must do something. So it's not far from the social revolution!

        On the one hand, you are right ... and on the other:
        Just a couple of hours ago I read the news "Mile ru" ... Tymoshenko complained that the Ukrainians are not ready for the revolution (They say they did not suffer their freedom, they do not want to rush into the embrasures ...
        1. zennon
          zennon 27 June 2013 22: 25
          +2
          Tymoshenko complains that Ukrainians are not ready for revolution

          But you see that this is a banal provocation, inciting hysterics that are standing at her tsugunder with placards! I'm talking about the ripening of "grapes of anger"! After all, it will tear the roof off an overheated boiler!
        2. Egoza
          Egoza 27 June 2013 23: 00
          +4
          Quote: Corneli
          Tymoshenko complains that Ukrainians are not ready for revolution

          You are reading this incorrectly ... This means that no one is going to free our Yulia and break the prison, the hospital, they are not carrying her free in arms at the head of the revolutionary crowd! laughing
          1. Corneli
            Corneli 28 June 2013 04: 04
            +2
            Quote: Egoza
            You are reading this incorrectly ... This means that no one is going to free our Yulia and break the prison, the hospital, they are not carrying it in their hands at will at the head of the revolutionary crowd! laughing

            A thief should sit in jail! Still and the rest of the pack there (((
            In general, I am dragged along with these politicians-sufferers ... they will be taken for the current ... as they start to get sick !!! They die straight. And they will come out instantly healthy! Just fantastic! The drunkard, the former minister of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, suffered for a couple of years ... in the hospital he lay more than in the zone ... he was emaciated all over, he almost threw his skates ... ryahu gobbled up "even a patsyukiv bey"
  20. Renat
    Renat 27 June 2013 22: 06
    0
    GDP per capita, country rating, some places in the world ranking. All these are statistics. Dry numbers. Comrades Ukrainians, is it really so bad there with you? My colleague lives in Russia for many years, goes on vacation to his homeland in the Donbass, but he did not say anything terrible.
    1. chertjaga
      chertjaga 27 June 2013 23: 01
      -1
      Yes, everything is going our way: plants smoke, the dollar is stable (prices do not jump) and most importantly, no one runs down the street and shoots
    2. Egoza
      Egoza 27 June 2013 23: 03
      +4
      Quote: Renat
      goes on vacation to his homeland in the Donbass, but he did not say anything terrible.

      Guests are guests, even if relatives - all the troubles will not fall on your head. You need to LIVE here, then you will see everything.
  21. GEO
    GEO 27 June 2013 23: 03
    +1
    Galicia should be given to the Poles, and the rest of Ukraine should be returned to the bosom of Russia, as historically it was.
  22. GEO
    GEO 27 June 2013 23: 06
    +1
    Quote: Renat
    GDP per capita, country rating, some places in the world ranking. All these are statistics. Dry numbers. Comrades Ukrainians, is it really so bad there with you? My colleague lives in Russia for many years, goes on vacation to his homeland in the Donbass, but he did not say anything terrible.

    I don’t know what your comrade told there, but, last month, I went to my relatives in Konotop, all the doctors are there, they live only in their garden. They mistrusted my stories about the earnings of our doctors, and, especially, the military ... It's hard for them to believe this, given how they live there
    1. Corneli
      Corneli 27 June 2013 23: 21
      +1
      Quote: GEO
      I don’t know what your comrade was saying there, but I, behold,

      But I am friends with a considerable number of doctors and military ... and there are a lot of other professions too) MB it is in Kiev so "chocolate" live (well, or near Kiev ... there are military bases), but no one banged their heads against the wall either ... yes, salary can be small - 500-700 USD .... but forgive it without "vegetable gardens") for 1 chela, in general, enough (if of course the family does not weigh where one officer or a simple doctor should feed the spouse with 2-4 children without "social benefits")
      1. revnagan
        revnagan 28 June 2013 11: 12
        +1
        Quote: Corneli
        . yes sal can and small - 500-700 USD .... but forgive it without "vegetable gardens"

        In our town of Shostka (remember, "Svema", a film factory), the salary is $ 200. is already considered very decent. 250 is “Wow!” And such income, as you wrote, is where? Well, it's clear there, Kharkov, Donetsk, Dnepropetrovsk, but these are large cities. And there is poverty around, try to find a job at least for 200 bucks ...
  23. GEO
    GEO 27 June 2013 23: 09
    +2
    Quote: chertjaga
    Yes, everything is going our way: plants smoke, the dollar is stable (prices do not jump) and most importantly, no one runs down the street and shoots

    Well, what is smoking there? Just that smokes. What do you produce there? Maybe to remind you how you profiled Nikolaev shipyards on which aircraft carriers were built in the USSR. Do not be fooled by yourself, no one needs you without Russia.
    1. Corneli
      Corneli 27 June 2013 23: 23
      +1
      Quote: GEO
      what do you smoke there? Just that smokes. What do you produce there? Maybe to remind you how you profiled Nikolaev shipyards on which aircraft carriers were built in the USSR. Do not be fooled by yourself, no one needs you without Russia.

      I’ll surprise you very much, probably ... nobody needs us with Russia either! And Russia is not particularly needed)
    2. chertjaga
      chertjaga 28 June 2013 00: 00
      -7
      Well, what is smoking there?


      Mariupol Iron and Steel Works named after Ilyich
      Azovstal
      Makeevka Metallurgical Plant named after S. M. Kirov
      Donetsk Metallurgical Plant
      Enakievo Metallurgical Plant
      Kryvorizhstal
      Dnieper Metallurgical Plant named after F.E. Dzerzhinsky
      Evraz-DMZ them. Petrovsky
      Zaporizhstal
      Dneprospetsstal
      Alchevsk Metallurgical Plant

      Here are some of the enterprises, each of which provides jobs for at least 10000 (Dneprospetsstal less than 10000) people
      There are also a number of GOKs, coke ovens, "pipe plants" and there are still a number of enterprises that manufacture equipment and consumables for metallurgical enterprises, which also employ Ukrainians

      Just that smokes. What do you produce there?

      cast iron, steel, rolled products, pipes - I sell to almost all countries of the world. And Russia can sell gas only to Ukraine (other countries, except Russia, consume very little)!

      Maybe, to remind you how you profiled Nikolaev shipyards on which aircraft carriers were built in the USSR

      How is it profiled? Shipyards in Nikolaev as they were and remained, just the aircraft carriers no longer needed

      Do not be fooled by yourself, no one needs you without Russia

      We need only ourselves. Nobody needs Ukraine without gas, and gas will flow to Ukraine without interruption, regardless of Russia's desire and policy
      1. zennon
        zennon 28 June 2013 00: 22
        +2
        And Russia can sell gas only to Ukraine (other countries, except Russia, consume very little)!

        Deliveries to non-CIS countries in 2012 - 138,8 billion cubic meters. m gas
        Deliveries to the CIS and Baltic countries in 2012 - 64,4 billion cubic meters. m gas
        Yes you smoked!
        1. chertjaga
          chertjaga 28 June 2013 17: 32
          0
          Yes you smoked!


          Of course I smoked.
          Judging by the fact that Russian gas flows to Ukraine in a roundabout way, Ukraine is still the main importer of Russian gas.
      2. Corsair
        Corsair 28 June 2013 11: 00
        0
        Quote: chertjaga
        cast iron, steel, rolled products, pipes - I sell to almost all countries of the world. And Russia can sell gas only to Ukraine (other countries, except Russia, consume very little)!

        Note that the enterprises you have listed are located exclusively in Eastern Ukraine, and for the most part in the Donbass.
        And so Donbass (Donetsk region, as the most developed):

        The total share of the Donetsk region in the country's GDP for the 2010 year amounted to 12%, and subsidies from the state budget to the region were allocated 21% of the total amount allocated to all regions, and in 2011 m 27%. Despite the radical methods of treatment, the patient becomes worse every year. Depreciation of fixed assets is 67,1% (for comparison: 54,5% in the 2008 year).
        The state does not have the means and the Will to rectify the situation, private business, with an eye on the instability of the state's course (with rare exceptions), is not eager to "invest" in Ukraine ...
        1. chertjaga
          chertjaga 28 June 2013 17: 56
          0
          And so Donbass (Donetsk region, as the most developed):


          Firstly, Donbass is not only the Donetsk region, but also the whole Lugansk region and some parts of related regions
          Secondly, the most developed region of Ukraine is the central part of Ukraine (Dnepropetrovsk, Zaporizhzhya and parts of related regions)

          The state does not have the means and the Will to rectify the situation, private business, with an eye on the instability of the state's course (with rare exceptions), is not eager to "invest" in Ukraine ...


          In your opinion, as I understand it, "correcting the situation" is the abolition of statehood and business on the territory of Ukraine with the subsequent transfer of everything and the whole of Russia, or what kind of "correction of the situation" do you mean?
      3. fokino1980
        fokino1980 28 June 2013 11: 04
        +1
        Another Losers! Of the listed factories, most of them belong to the international holding Metinvest Eurasia and ArcelorMittal (the owner is a citizen of India and the largest steel company in the world) ArcelorMittal is the first, but not at the expense of Ukrainian factories.
        1 ArcelorMittal 101.6 116.4 -12.7
        2 Nippon Steel 37.5 35.7 5.0
        3 Baosteel Group 35.4 28.6 23.8
        4 Hebei Steel Group 33.3 31.1 7.1
        5 JFE 32.4 34.0 -4.7
        6 POSCO 31.7 31.1 1.9
        7 Wuhan Steel Group 27.7 20.2 37.1
        8 Tata Steel (including Corus) 24.4 26.5 -7.9
        9 Shandong Steel Group 23.8 23.8 0.0
        10 US Steel 23.2 21.5 7.9
        11 Nucor 20.4 20.0 2.0
        12 Gerdau 20.4 18.6 9.7
        13 Severstal 19.2 17.3 11.0
        14 Jiangsu Shagang Group 19.2 22.9 -16.2
        15 Evraz Group 17.7 16.2 9.3
        16 Riva 16.9 17.9 -5.6
        17 Anshan Steel 16.0 16.2 -1.2
        18 Thyssen Krupp 15.9 17.0 -6.5
        19 Maanshan Steel 15.0 14.2 5.6
        20 Sumitomo Metal Ind 14.1 13.8 2.2
        21 SAIL 13.7 13.9 -1.4
        22 Shougang Group 12.2 12.9 -5.4
        23 MMK 12.0 13.3 -9.8
        24 Novolipetsk Steel 11.3 9.7 16.5
        25 Hunan Valin Group 11.3 11.1 1.8
        26 China Steel Corporation 11.0 10.9 0.9
        27 Techint 10.4 13.1 -20.6
        28 IMIDRO 10.0 10.1 -1.0
        29 Industrial Union of Donbass 9.9 11.6 -14.7
        30 Hyundai Steel 9.9 10.0 -1.0
        31 Baotou Steel 9.8 8.8 11.4
        32 Taiyuan Steel 9.2 9.3 -1.1
        33 Anyang Steel 9.0 9.0 0.0
        34 Metinvest 8.2 9.1 -9.9
        35 Celsa 8.2 8.1 1.2
        36 Kobe Steel 8.1 8.1 0.0
        37 Usiminas 8.0 8.7 -8.0
        38 Rizhao Steel 7.5 6.2 21.0
        39 Benxi Steel 7.4 7.6 -2.6
        40 Jiuquan Steel 7.0 7.4 -5.4
        41 Salzgitter 6.9 7.3 -5.5
        42 Voestalpine 6.9 6.9 0.0
        43 Panzhihua Steel 6.8 6.6 3.0
        44 Jianlong Group 6.5 7.8 -16.7
        45 BlueScope 6.5 6.8 -4.4
        46 Metalloinvest 6.4 6.4 0.0
        47 Beitei Steel 6.4 6.4 0.0
        48 Guofeng Steel 6.1 5.2 17.3
        49 SSAB 6.1 6.1 0.0
        50 Erdemir 6.0 5.4 11.1
        51 AK Steel 5.9 5.9 0.0
        52 Mechel 5.9 6.1 -3.3
        53 Nanjing Steel 5.7 6.0 -5.0
        54 Mariupol Iron and Steel Works named after Ilyich 5.6 7.0 -20.0
        55 Tonghua Steel 5.4 5.0 8.0
        56 Xinyu Steel 5.3 5.6 -5.4
        57 HKM 5.2 5.5 -5.5
        58 Sanming Steel 5.1 4.5 13.3
        59 CSN 5.0 5.3 -5.7
        60 HADEED

        Russia, the world's largest producer of black metal, combined with Ukraine will crush everyone. No one in the business world wants this! Hence all the problems of Ukraine! The country's media, political elite, etc. They are working against this association, although it is very beneficial primarily to Ukraine itself. Smart politicians are not there and are not expected.
        1. chertjaga
          chertjaga 28 June 2013 18: 32
          0
          I didn’t write that the factories belong to Ukraine, the fact that the factories have already been bought up for me is not news, but this will not change the fact that the factories work and provide a huge mass of people with work.

          ArcelorMittal (owned by a citizen of India and the largest steel company in the world) ArcelorMittal is the first but not at the expense of Ukrainian plants


          Firstly, a steel plant is the remelting of scrap metal in an electric arc furnace, and a metallurgical plant is the production of metal from what is dug out of the ground.
          Secondly, in order to be the "largest steel company in the world" you need high-quality raw materials, which, in fact, are provided by Krivorozhstal

          1 ArcelorMittal 101.6 116.4 -12.7
          2 Nippon Steel 37.5 35.7 5.0
          3 Baosteel Group 35.4 28.6 23.8
          4 Hebei Steel Group 33.3 31.1 7.1
          5 JFE 32.4 34.0 -4.7
          6 POSCO 31.7 31.1 1.9
          7 Wuhan Steel Group 27.7 20.2 37.1
          8 Tata Steel (including Corus) 24.4 26.5 -7.9
          9 Shandong Steel Group 23.8 23.8 0.0
          10 US Steel 23.2 21.5 7.9
          11 Nucor 20.4 20.0 2.0
          12 Gerdau 20.4 18.6 9.7
          13 Severstal 19.2 17.3 11.0
          14 Jiangsu Shagang Group 19.2 22.9 -16.2
          15 Evraz Group 17.7 16.2 9.3
          16 Riva 16.9 17.9 -5.6
          17 Anshan Steel 16.0 16.2 -1.2
          18 Thyssen Krupp 15.9 17.0 -6.5
          19 Maanshan Steel 15.0 14.2 5.6
          20 Sumitomo Metal Ind 14.1 13.8 2.2
          21 SAIL 13.7 13.9 -1.4
          22 Shougang Group 12.2 12.9 -5.4
          23 MMK 12.0 13.3 -9.8
          24 Novolipetsk Steel 11.3 9.7 16.5
          25 Hunan Valin Group 11.3 11.1 1.8
          26 China Steel Corporation 11.0 10.9 0.9
          27 Techint 10.4 13.1 -20.6
          28 IMIDRO 10.0 10.1 -1.0
          29 Industrial Union of Donbass 9.9 11.6 -14.7
          30 Hyundai Steel 9.9 10.0 -1.0
          31 Baotou Steel 9.8 8.8 11.4
          32 Taiyuan Steel 9.2 9.3 -1.1
          33 Anyang Steel 9.0 9.0 0.0
          34 Metinvest 8.2 9.1 -9.9
          35 Celsa 8.2 8.1 1.2
          36 Kobe Steel 8.1 8.1 0.0
          37 Usiminas 8.0 8.7 -8.0
          38 Rizhao Steel 7.5 6.2 21.0
          39 Benxi Steel 7.4 7.6 -2.6
          40 Jiuquan Steel 7.0 7.4 -5.4
          41 Salzgitter 6.9 7.3 -5.5
          42 Voestalpine 6.9 6.9 0.0
          43 Panzhihua Steel 6.8 6.6 3.0
          44 Jianlong Group 6.5 7.8 -16.7
          45 BlueScope 6.5 6.8 -4.4
          46 Metalloinvest 6.4 6.4 0.0
          47 Beitei Steel 6.4 6.4 0.0
          48 Guofeng Steel 6.1 5.2 17.3
          49 SSAB 6.1 6.1 0.0
          50 Erdemir 6.0 5.4 11.1
          51 AK Steel 5.9 5.9 0.0
          52 Mechel 5.9 6.1 -3.3
          53 Nanjing Steel 5.7 6.0 -5.0
          54 Mariupol Iron and Steel Works named after Ilyich 5.6 7.0 -20.0
          55 Tonghua Steel 5.4 5.0 8.0
          56 Xinyu Steel 5.3 5.6 -5.4
          57 HKM 5.2 5.5 -5.5
          58 Sanming Steel 5.1 4.5 13.3
          59 CSN 5.0 5.3 -5.7
          60 HADEED


          Exclude from this list the factories that are engaged in the smelting of scrap metal and the picture will change dramatically

          Russia, the world's largest producer of black metal, united with Ukraine will crush everyone


          Ukraine, in order to be the world's largest producer of cast iron, steel, rolled products, etc., does not need to unite with anyone (since, unlike Russia, there is a full-fledged raw material base for steel production), only a sales market is needed.
  24. GEO
    GEO 27 June 2013 23: 15
    +6
    Quote: revnagan
    Quote: individ
    All the problems of Ukraine are that the Ukrainian authorities are in a "raskoryak" half bent over to step either into the "EU", or into the "TS".

    The Ukrainian authorities are not going anywhere. Why do they need the EU, they already live at the level of the richest Europeans, are treated in Europe, capital in Europe, children in Europe ... They are also not in the Customs Union - the Russian oligarchs will swallow them. The Ukrainian authorities are trying to simply knocking down the "gesheft" both from Europe and from Russia, are filling their own worth. However, they played too much, it's 2013, and the authorities live in 2000m. All their "tricks" both the EU and Russia have long figured out. In Europe, the tricks of the Ukrainian government everyone is satisfied.Russia is not yet able to force Ukraine to join, and ordinary people in this cats do not care.

    Russia will not force anyone else anywhere. We have now become pragmatic, thanks to Putin, enough to feed everyone for free, and we were spat on our backs and betrayed. Now we just work for ourselves, for our interests. If she wants to, Ukraine - we’re asking for favors, but, on our conditions now ... No - the road to fagots, to Europe is always open for them, no one will keep ...
  25. GEO
    GEO 27 June 2013 23: 25
    +1
    Quote: Corneli
    Quote: GEO
    what do you smoke there? Just that smokes. What do you produce there? Maybe to remind you how you profiled Nikolaev shipyards on which aircraft carriers were built in the USSR. Do not be fooled by yourself, no one needs you without Russia.

    I’ll surprise you very much, probably ... nobody needs us with Russia either! And Russia is not particularly needed)

    Well, you are brothers, Russia will never leave you, just stop shitting in our direction and reason yourself ...
  26. GEO
    GEO 27 June 2013 23: 32
    +2
    Quote: Corneli
    Quote: GEO
    I don’t know what your comrade was saying there, but I, behold,

    But I am friends with a considerable number of doctors and military ... and there are a lot of other professions too) MB it is in Kiev so "chocolate" live (well, or near Kiev ... there are military bases), but no one banged their heads against the wall either ... yes, salary can be small - 500-700 USD .... but forgive it without "vegetable gardens") for 1 chela, in general, enough (if of course the family does not weigh where one officer or a simple doctor should feed the spouse with 2-4 children without "social benefits")

    My relatives also do not beat their heads, but simply try to survive, working during working hours at work, and then all the time without days off in the kitchen gardens.
    True, 500-700 ye cannot be compared with 2000 ye simple Russian flying, I am still silent about the pilots and sailors. Let's not be measured 3,14 3,14 with. If you had not betrayed us in the 90s and early 2000s, you would have lived like that now too ... You didn’t have to follow the lead of Bendera. Still, by the way, it’s not too late to fix it ...
    1. Corneli
      Corneli 27 June 2013 23: 45
      0
      Quote: GEO
      True, 500-700 ye cannot be compared with 2000 ye simple Russian flying, I am still silent about the pilots and sailors. Let's not be measured 3,14 3,14 with.

      That yes ... If you have 2 k.e. get "simple lieutenants" (approx 16 to hryvnia in our ... sho people's deputies)))) ... then I just, whining, crawl under the fence, in the hope that no one will read this and I will not disgrace myself once again (And measuring with "pussy" here does not have kitties ... who has it more, I think it's clear)
      1. Corsair
        Corsair 28 June 2013 11: 07
        0
        Quote: Corneli
        That yes ... If you have 2 k.e. get "simple lieutenants" (approx 16 to hryvnia in our ... sho people's deputies)))) ... then I just, whining, crawl under the fence, in the hope that no one will read this and I will not disgrace myself once again (And measuring with "pussy" here does not have kitties ... who has it more, I think it's clear)

        The official table from the website of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation (note, monetary allowance CONTRACTOR) ...
        P / S: Under the fence? wink
      2. nnz226
        nnz226 28 June 2013 13: 10
        0
        For reference: my mother, who has worked as a teacher all her life, lives in the district town of Rybinsk, Yaroslavl region. receives a pension of 17000 rubles. I translate for stupid Svidomo = 4420 UAH. Now strain yourself and remember whether there are such pensions in Ukraine ??? for ordinary people? I ask you not to cite any prizIdes who promised the standard of living in 1991, "yak in Khvrantia", or the miserable one who came under the howling of banderalogists on the Maidan in 2004.
        1. Conepatus
          Conepatus 28 June 2013 14: 20
          +1
          Let's imagine that Ukraine became part of Russia.
          In addition to the increase in territory and population, Russia will receive + 10 million (maybe more) pensioners, half of which are parasites from the army and garbage, that is, people who are quite young (not 60 years old) who in principle do not want to do anything. If you put this whole crowd on balance , then what kind of pension will your mother have? Are you sure that it will not decrease? Next. We have a small army, but there are no less generals than under the Union, and no less cops than you. And this whole bastard will be categorically against unification. Because in the case of uniting the generals-nakh from the beach without a length of service (I would have done so) and cut the police by 80 percent. Well, how many sheep (cops) are back in the village. In addition, we will soon cancel military duty, and you have it there are. And now, the opponents of the unification take care that every mother and grandmother are popularly informed that if they unite, their beloved son, grandson, nephew, will go to serve in faraway Siberia, or the Caucasus. What do you think they will vote for in case of a referendum? And this is only part of the problems slowing down the process (if it ever starts). If you unite, then you need to do it leisurely, step by step, thoughtfully. And then it will take 15-20 years (this if everything will be like clockwork). And such articles are pointless and except for negativity do not cause anything.
  27. sso-xnumx
    sso-xnumx 28 June 2013 00: 15
    +1
    as Ukrainians say, "hi hirsche, that inshe", but by and large "bachyly ochy scho kupovaly" ...........
  28. fokino1980
    fokino1980 28 June 2013 11: 16
    0
    Russia, represented by Gazprom, should not get involved in the modernization of the gas transportation system of Ukraine, it is very costly and in the end the next "hetman" will get it and no one will return the money (this is the style of the Ukrainian political elite) and they wanted to spit on the concluded contracts! And in the light of the "shale revolution" there is still nothing to it!
  29. Smoke
    Smoke 28 June 2013 11: 23
    0
    I personally had a strict rush on Svidomo hahlov and their non-invasive Ukraine, they made their choice in 90, and then they also crap crap and still crap towards Russia: repressions, famines, Cossacks .... what else did I miss?
    I remember how I returned home from Vankor and met a guy from Lugansk on the train who proved everything to me that in Russia everything will be just as bad as in Ukraine, just in Ukraine advanced theft and saw cutting technologies are implemented faster and easier than in Russia, but Russia is all Equally this fate will not be avoided. And when I answered him that in Russia this would never happen, that our people had not forgotten which side to take up arms for, if anything, the guy looked at me strangely and shut up. Time passes - I hope that guy from Lugansk understood my point.
  30. Mhpv
    Mhpv 28 June 2013 11: 34
    0
    I propose to consider the development of production in Ukraine on a concrete example. This is the city of Lysychansk, far from being a foreign city to me, until now, although I have not lived there for a long time. Such a devastation of production, boiled up and sold by local tycoons and then blaming Russia for all of its troubles.
    http://www.lisichansk.in.ua/realii-pokrashhennya-lisichansk-na-grani-revolyucii.
    html
    1. Stamp
      Stamp 28 June 2013 13: 56
      0
      Quote: mhpv
      I propose to consider the development of production in Ukraine on a concrete example .. This is the city of Lysychansk, a city far from an alien to me, so far, although I have not lived there for a long time.

      So what is Lysychansk oil refinery still standing there? Without it, there would not be anything in the local budget.
  31. nnz226
    nnz226 28 June 2013 13: 02
    +4
    Confucius: "A person who does not foresee the future, failures and misfortunes await him! STUDY THE HISTORY TO PREVENT THE FUTURE!" 17th century, Pereyaslavskaya Rada: out of three options, to whom to surrender, Little Russians choose: "To the people of RUSSIA, pid the Tsar of Moscow!" Hurray, in honor of the 300th anniversary of this event, the bald corn muzzle gives Crimea to Ukraine. However, Khmelnitsky dies (5 UAH banknote), Vygovsky, the predecessor of the Mazepa, enters into action, the declaration of independence, an attack on the Russian army (the battle of Konotop, which the Prize of Yushchenko tried to celebrate), and now it is independence! And less than a dozen years have passed since Little Russia has the period mentioned in the article of several decades under the eloquent name RUINA !!! Then the Crimean Tatars traded Ukrainian girls right under the windows of the hetman's palace. So what?! Did this teach Svidomo anything ?! As they say, Russia is hardly noticeable without Ukraine. Well, if we recognize Russia as 1 (unit), then Ukraine = 0, together equal to 10, and without Russia, 0 it is 0!