Military Review

Ukrainian parliament refused to denounce agreements on the Black Sea Fleet

110



In mid-June 2013, the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine registered a bill on the denunciation of an agreement on basing the Russian fleet on the territory of the peninsula of Crimea. The decision to terminate the agreement was supported only by 152 deputies. However, even if all the opposition were present at the meeting, their votes would still be small. At the same time, the very fact of the absence of like-minded people at such a crucial moment aroused discontent among some representatives of the opposition forces, and there is nothing surprising in this. Indeed, even if such an event, which will once again “annoy” Russia, no longer causes enthusiasm among the “twin cities,” there is already reason to think seriously ...

It should be noted that the proposals on the termination of agreements on the Black Sea Fleet have been submitted to the Ukrainian parliament more than once, but so far this has not brought any results. Since the treaty between the countries was ratified (this is April 2010 of the year), the opposition forces have made the fourth attempt to denounce it. The first initiator of the termination of the agreement was Andrei Parubiy, a deputy from the block of Our Ukraine - People’s Self-Defense, who, in addition, was an active participant in ratification fights. The bill proposed by him was registered in the spring of 2011 of the year, but in June it was rejected and removed from consideration.

In January-May 2012, the deputies did not have the right to introduce bills on the termination of international agreements. However, such a right was soon returned to the deputies by the Constitutional Court. The dissatisfied took advantage of this almost immediately. The initiative was passed into the hands of Vladimir Yavorivsky, a deputy from the opposition Yulia Tymoshenko Bloc, who hastened to submit his own bill to the Verkhovna Rada. However, nothing new was contained in this document; moreover, he practically repeated word by word the Parubiy document. It is clear that this similarity ultimately led to the same end. In December 2012, the Yavorivsky bill was also withdrawn from consideration, but at the initiative of the author himself. However, as it turned out later, the “self-withdrawal” was tactical in nature. Yavorivsky was replaced by a young and ambitious politician Oleg Lyashko, who is known for his radical views. He submitted his bill to parliament only five days later than Yavorivsky. But, in comparison with his predecessor, he approached with all seriousness the matter, not limited to simply rewriting the test, but put forward his own requirements. First of all, the politician demanded that all the relatives and relatives of the Russian servicemen, as well as those who are members of military enterprises, institutions and organizations, leave the territory of the Ukrainian state.

Despite the “individuality”, Lyashko was forced to retreat along with Yavorivsky, and personally withdraw his bill on the same day. But soon, Vladimir Yavorivsky reappeared on the “battlefield”, who registered the new bill less than a week later, without making any changes to it, however. But even despite the fact that the bill managed to reach the session hall and get to the deputies' consideration, it was still expected to fail, which, strictly speaking, occurred the other day.

The main scientific and expert department of the Verkhovna Rada was forced to reflect the maneuvers of the opposition. Very little effort was expended on the first bill, because the author demanded only those agreements that were concluded between Ukraine and Russia regarding the basing of the Russian fleet on Ukrainian territory were denounced. By that time, we recall, the Kharkiv agreements have not yet been signed. Representatives of the department insisted that in such issues, subjects of legislative initiatives could be either the head of state or the government, but not deputies.

When the decision of the Constitutional Court appeared, the administration was forced to change tactics, and both the Yavorivsky draft laws received the same expert opinion. First of all, the author was explained the essence of the term "denunciation", and in addition, the experts considered that the requirements of the author of the draft contradict the Vienna Convention on International Treaties, signed back in 1969, but which is mandatory for Ukraine. In addition, the experts also argued in great detail why he considers Yavorivsky’s statements to be mistaken that the presence of the Russian fleet on Ukrainian territory contradicts the Constitution of the country. And, not least, it was popularly explained that they consider the statements of the politician to be unfounded as to the fact that, in the framework of the implementation of the draft law, large investments by the state would not be required. Similar clarifications were received by Oleg Lyashko.

If we talk about the constitutionality of the location of the Russian fleet on the territory of the Crimean peninsula, then this question has caused heated debates for more than a year now. Even during the years of Yushchenko’s presidency, the head of state himself called on his political opponents not to speculate on this issue in order to please the electorate more, although he himself used the “forbidden method” more than once.

In fact, everything is much simpler. According to the Constitution of Ukraine, the deployment on the Ukrainian territory of foreign military bases is prohibited. But at the same time, in the Transitional Provisions of the same law there is an article which states that the temporary stay of foreign military formations on Ukrainian territory is possible only on lease terms, but only in the order indicated in international agreements ratified by the Ukrainian parliament. Thus, the provisions of the law can be interpreted in two ways: if someone believes that the Russian fleet has no place on the Ukrainian territory, he may demand its withdrawal, but if not, then we can assume that the lease of the territory will be extended by relevant international agreements. Neither one nor the other position absolutely contradicts the Ukrainian Constitution.

There is another, no less interesting question: why did the opponents of the stay of the Black Sea Russian fleet decide to denounce the treaty right now? After all, the extension of the lease, according to the Kharkiv agreements, is provided only with 2017 year. And if you take into account the statement of the opposition on their intention to win the upcoming presidential elections, which will be held in 2015 year, it is completely incomprehensible that they can prevent them from denouncing the agreement after this very victory.

In addition, it should be noted that the Russian side itself does not exclude the possibility of termination of the Kharkov agreements in the event that the Ukrainian government goes to court to revise the gas contracts. But Moscow is sure that Ukraine will not go to such a rash step, because it threatens with serious problems - a significant increase in the cost of Russian gas, as well as considerable debts, because after these agreements came into force, Kiev has already been given a discount of 6 billion dollars, which in case of breach of contract, will have to return ...

We also note that V. Yanukovych, until recently, was fully confident that the denunciation of bilateral agreements between Ukraine and Russia regarding the Black Sea Russian fleet could in no way lead to the denunciation of Kharkov agreements ...

Thus, from the above, one conclusion can be made: the denunciation of agreements on the Black Sea Fleet by the Ukrainian parliamentarians will not be accepted. Firstly, because the opposition does not have a sufficient number of votes, and secondly, because the opposition themselves have not fully decided what they really want. The Party of Regions will not support such a bill unequivocally, since its representatives are confident that the Russian fleet helps in ensuring the independence of Ukraine, guaranteeing with its presence the security and defense capability of its borders.

Materials used:
http://www.unian.net/news/578937-flot-eto-na-potom.html
http://narodna.pravda.com.ua/rus/politics/4bd6992bbb1e8/
http://minprom.ua/news/85559.html
http://pavlonews.info/news/categ_21/125166.html
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  1. Syrzhn
    Syrzhn 26 June 2013 07: 30
    33
    They are tearing Ukraine apart by the "Bendera", they are ready to leave no stone unturned from their native country, if only against Russia. This is already some kind of schizophrenia.
    1. experienced
      experienced 26 June 2013 08: 23
      +7
      Then the deputies of the Verkhovna Rada would remember about the discount on gas that was made to Ukraine upon signing the agreement. During this time, I think there has been a substantial amount of money that will have to be returned to Russia in case of denunciation, from which shisha will they do this? Getting into a hole in debt is very difficult to remain independent. hi
      1. Tatar
        Tatar 26 June 2013 11: 00
        +2
        they work off their money, and what difference does it make for a people to live well or badly? Ukrainian people are also "well done" freedom, democracy. the same slogans sounded in the 90s and how they lived later in the 90s. on the same rake blah.
        1. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 26 June 2013 15: 43
          +2
          Quote: Tatar
          Ukrainian people are also "well done" freedom, democracy. the same slogans sounded in the 90s and how they lived in the 90s. on the same rake blah.


          perplexed what

          if YOU don’t know, then at the referendum on the PRESERVATION of the USSR, the overwhelming majority of Ukrainians voted "for" preservation, which naturally did not fit into the strategy of the sold-out "party elite" and the nationalists who joined them, 80% voted on the contrary.
          1. self-propelled
            self-propelled 26 June 2013 21: 15
            +3
            Quote: Karlsonn
            if YOU don’t know, then at the referendum on the PRESERVATION of the USSR, the overwhelming majority of Ukrainians voted "for"

            the fact of the matter is that the opinion of the people does not interest anyone. they wanted the politicians of independence (or rather, those who pull the "strings" of politicians like puppets). received. what in the end ?! 20 years LOST OPPORTUNITIES NORMAL TO LIVE AND DEVELOP !!! live in friendship with Russia (and not look at the western p ... idoras and expect mercy from them). how much has Ukraine lost due to the rupture of economic relations between enterprises of Ukraine and Russia? tell me who has real data. How many swear words and disputes over gas were there ?! But all this LOST time could normally cooperate with Russia and develop! no, I wanted to "breathe freely" and "throw off the oppression of the northern neighbor." what is the result? sorry for being rude, but ABOUT ... FUCKED. I live in Ukraine myself. yes, I do not argue, if you want to live, you can, but it could be better. sure. you can minus me, ardent supporters of UNCLEARNESS. I can only say one thing - I was born during the Soviet Union (and lived for some time under the Union), studied partly under the Union, completed my studies under Ukraine, swore allegiance to Ukraine in the army, but I still consider the Union as my Motherland. and I do not differentiate between Russians, Ukrainians, Belarusians, Kazakhs, etc. I'm tired of the constant swearing "who is more important and more important." how much can you shit? THINK !!!
            1. Karlsonn
              Karlsonn 26 June 2013 22: 17
              +1
              Quote: self-propelled
              You can blame me, ardent supporters of the ESSENCE.


              they don’t live here. drinks
              1. self-propelled
                self-propelled 26 June 2013 23: 00
                +1
                Quote: Karlsonn
                they don’t live here. drinks

                drinks
      2. skywatcher
        skywatcher 26 June 2013 22: 22
        0
        This is a normal discount, of course, when the reverse from Europe the SAME gas is cheaper than the discount.
    2. mertvoe_exo
      mertvoe_exo 26 June 2013 14: 29
      +5
      Guys do not overtake about Bendera’s, we’ll hold them down, we will screw them up, since our gay opposition members are in Belarus)) the guys can’t live for a long time)
    3. Apologet.Ru
      Apologet.Ru 26 June 2013 20: 17
      +1
      Sober-minded politicians of Ukraine are well aware that with the practical absence of adequate armed forces in Ukraine, the fate of Georgia awaits it, i.e. litter in the Caucasus for P.indostan. And if we also take into account the "peaceful" am neighbors of Ukraine, Turkey, for example, or Romania ...
  2. Ivan79
    Ivan79 26 June 2013 07: 36
    +8
    Oh, this lack of solidity and not dependence. Soon, after all, they’ll stay completely naked, and everything will be there
    same - as if to show a fig. But in fact, the Ukrainians and I are one people. It’s a pity that at the top
    they don’t understand this ...
    1. Sulzer
      Sulzer 26 June 2013 09: 02
      -3
      http://ubr.ua/ukraine-and-world/power/v-sfere-vysokih-tehnologii-rossiia-vedet-v
      -otnoshenii-ukrainy-politiku-dvoinyh-standartov-235188
      1. ded_73
        ded_73 26 June 2013 15: 33
        0
        And this is old man Boguslaev, someone else, and it’s hard to blame him for anti-Russian sentiments. You can’t find a greater integrator ... And they got it. So not all is well.
      2. Karlsonn
        Karlsonn 26 June 2013 15: 50
        +1
        yeah - to our b-pull that wolf zaisty laughing

        bye pi .... in oh repeat "not such people" will not kiss where their feet grow right on the Maidan, Geyrope does not need Ukraine.
        Damn, do you believe in fairy tales as a child, do you have any idea what problems need to be solved to create a port-free zone?
  3. cobalt
    cobalt 26 June 2013 07: 42
    +1
    It is interesting when our Black Sea Fleet is relocated to Novorossiysk, what else will these faulty fighters for the complete independence of Ukraine from all that can be found fault. They will probably shout about a gross violation of Ukraine’s copyright on the production and consumption of fat and demand deductions for each piece we produce.
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 26 June 2013 09: 59
      +8
      Quote: cobalt
      It’s interesting when our Black Sea Fleet is relocated to Novorossiysk


      Bad place for the fleet, read about winds, currents, etc.
      1. experienced
        experienced 26 June 2013 10: 08
        +3
        Quote: Vadivak
        Bad place for the fleet, read about winds, currents, etc.

        Unfortunately, there is no other place on the coast in Russia, but you must have a base. Somehow it is too free in Ukraine to "turn to" agreements, yesterday information passed that someone out there sued Yushchenko for his "treason to Ukraine" when signing a gas contract. So we are waiting for the next wave of "gas changes", then they will also "learn" something about the Black Sea Fleet, I do not think that Russia will go to open confrontation, as long as it is necessary to adhere to the fact that the Treaty on the extension of basing has been signed and Russia is fulfilling its obligations, and that there Ukraine "korezhit" is her problem. hi
    2. biglow
      biglow 26 June 2013 14: 40
      +2
      Quote: cobalt
      It is interesting when our Black Sea Fleet is relocated to Novorossiysk, what else will these faulty fighters for the complete independence of Ukraine from all that can be found fault. They will probably shout about a gross violation of Ukraine’s copyright on the production and consumption of fat and demand deductions for each piece we produce.

      Sevastopol is a native and native base for the Black Sea Fleet and it will never leave the fleet, Bandera may not even dream that the Russian flag will disappear from Sevastopol
      1. German
        German 26 June 2013 17: 33
        +5
        Although I live in Ukraine, I still can’t understand how Russia agreed to give Crimea to Ukraine? What do Ukraine have to do with Crimea? It has always been a part of Russia!
        1. self-propelled
          self-propelled 26 June 2013 21: 30
          0
          Quote: German
          how did Russia agree to give Crimea to Ukraine?

          here is Thu on this occasion write on Wikipedia (although there is not such a write yet) request
          The issuance of the decree is often called the personal initiative of N. S. Khrushchev, closely associated with Ukraine, but this opinion is erroneous. The Crimean region was transferred to Ukraine with the following wording: "Given the commonality of the economy, territorial proximity and close economic and cultural ties between the Crimean region and the Ukrainian SSR". On January 25 of 1954 at a meeting of the Presidium of the CPSU Central Committee, a draft Decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR on the transfer of the Crimean region from the RSFSR to the Ukrainian SSR was approved. Already on February 19 1954, the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR issued a Decree "On the transfer of the Crimean region from the RSFSR to the Ukrainian SSR." At the same time, the expression of the will of the Crimean population was not taken into account, since no referenda were held. As part of the Ukrainian SSR, the Crimean region was in 1954 — 1991. The political reasons for the transfer of Crimea to the end are unclear. On the one hand, it is argued that the authorities would like to present a gift to the Ukrainian SSR in honor of the celebration of the 300 anniversary of the Pereyaslav Rada 1654 (Unification of Russia and Ukraine) and thus accelerate the process of Russification of Ukraine. However, the demographic data of subsequent censuses are rather contradictory in this regard.
          as for Sevastopol
          In 1954, the Crimean region was transferred to the Ukrainian SSR without indicating the status of Sevastopol, which at that time was the city of republican subordination of the RSFSR. On the administrative maps of the USSR, the city began to be designated part of the Ukrainian SSR. On the one hand, such cities were not analogues of currently existing cities of federal significance, that is, they were not subjects of the RSFSR, but were directly controlled by the republican authorities, which explains their absence in the Constitution of the RSFSR of that time in the list of subjects of the federation. On the other hand, in the new constitutions adopted in 1978, cities of republican subordination began to be mentioned, and Sevastopol was not in the Constitution of the RSFSR, but was in the Constitution of the USSR. However, it is impossible to completely answer the question whether the transfer of the Crimean region automatically included the transfer of Sevastopol, since there is no strict definition of what a “city of republican subordination” is in any of the constitutions, neither republican nor all-Union, before the 1954 year, contained. request
        2. skywatcher
          skywatcher 26 June 2013 22: 34
          0
          Crimea was part of the Union in which the administrative borders of republics and regions did not mean anything. Parts of Ukraine and Russia during the times of the Union were repeatedly exchanged and the border between the republics changed their configuration. Who thought in 1956 that a collapse would happen in 1991. Yes, if I were told in 1986 in the army about this, I would have spit in my face. Betrayed us as usual.
    3. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 26 June 2013 15: 52
      +3
      Quote: cobalt
      It’s interesting when our Black Sea Fleet is relocated to Novorossiysk


      why are you already giving Sevastopol a fuk?
    4. Felix200970
      Felix200970 26 June 2013 19: 36
      +1
      Yes wrong. If you look seriously at the collection of Ukrainian lands, then the Great Collector is Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin and only after him Bogdan Zenon Khmelnitsky. And all the rest are like that ... boys with dirty buttocks, and some Natsik heroes didn't even lie around
      1. Karlsonn
        Karlsonn 26 June 2013 19: 51
        0
        Quote: Felix200970
        Yes wrong. If you look seriously at the collection of Ukrainian lands, then the Great Collector is Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin and only after him Bogdan Zenon Khmelnitsky.


        Felix200970

        I have always asked the most ardent "banderlog" on the Ukrainian resources:
        - How is it that Stalin restored the territorial integrity of Ukraine, and here you are pushing him?

        As a rule, trolling ended with a life ban for me through the provider.
  4. rugor
    rugor 26 June 2013 08: 47
    +5
    The fleet may be relocated, in part or for the most part, but Sevastopol will surely remain ours forever.
    1. Airman
      Airman 26 June 2013 09: 42
      +4
      Quote: rugor
      The fleet may be relocated, in part or for the most part, but Sevastopol will surely remain ours forever.


      Or maybe the time has come to return Crimea to the original owners? that is, Russia and correct the mistake of Khrushchev.
      1. Black Colonel
        Black Colonel 26 June 2013 11: 15
        +5
        Not an error, but an illegal act of transfer
      2. skywatcher
        skywatcher 26 June 2013 22: 40
        -1
        How is this? How is it in Georgia?
        1. Ustian
          Ustian 26 June 2013 22: 57
          0
          Quote: skywatcher
          How is this? How is it in Georgia?

          Do you want to like in Libya? As far as I know, no territories of Georgia Georgia have joined to their territory!
  5. Grigorich 1962
    Grigorich 1962 26 June 2013 08: 55
    +6
    We then denounced the transfer of Crimea to Ukraine ... and then we would see who
    1. omsbon
      omsbon 26 June 2013 12: 31
      +3
      Quote: Grigorich 1962
      .and then who would look who

      It may be easier to act, to throw forces and means to unite one people within the framework of a single state!
  6. Sanamana
    Sanamana 26 June 2013 08: 59
    +1
    stopudovo.
  7. Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 26 June 2013 09: 09
    23
    The meeting in the Rada:
    Our GDP has fallen ...- Tse swear mos-li!
    Our agriculture collapsed .. - Wow mos-li!
    Our birth rate has fallen ... -Tse swear mos-li! wassat
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 26 June 2013 15: 53
      +2
      Quote: Uncle Lee
      The meeting in the Rada:
      Our GDP has fallen ...- Tse swear mos-li!
      Our agriculture collapsed .. - Wow mos-li!
      Our birth rate has fallen ... -Tse swear mos-li!


      this is the main national idea of ​​"banderlog", nothing else unites them.
  8. Orty
    Orty 26 June 2013 09: 10
    +7
    "Dove" Oleg Lyashko, hmm, whoever watched how Oleg Buzin got him from Shuster, he does not take this clown seriously, if there, in their Rada, everyone is like that, then Ukraine, as a state, is ambitious.
    1. maxvet
      maxvet 26 June 2013 13: 26
      0
      more details please, or a reference
      1. Orty
        Orty 26 June 2013 13: 55
        +1
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74T3DAgRKHs это про то как он цитирую "в рот брав"

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MvzJdCLTDY а это с Бузиной, про жену не указанную в декларации, в общем почему не указал так этот "альтернативный" и не ответил. Тот еще п....
    2. German
      German 26 June 2013 17: 38
      +2
      there (in the Rada) such as Lyashko as many as 400-odd pieces! And our rocket launchers still can’t get into such a goal! Either in residential buildings or in airplanes .... laughing
  9. Orty
    Orty 26 June 2013 09: 11
    +1
    In this case, I propose to denounce the state of Ukraine itself. laughing
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 26 June 2013 15: 55
      +1
      Quote: Orty
      In this case, I propose to denounce the state of Ukraine itself.


      Why wave a checker like this? belay

      stand on the sidelines, without interfering - the Ukrainian political "elite" itself is moving forward with leaps and bounds.
      1. Orty
        Orty 26 June 2013 16: 34
        0
        Yes, I know, by the way, it’s really easier to wait until their * ideers themselves bring the country to a pen and then save them, so to speak, while being all in white. Here are just ordinary people a little sorry, because they have to experience all the charms of the fail state in their own skin.
        1. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 26 June 2013 19: 28
          +1
          Quote: Orty
          Here are just ordinary people a little sorry, because they have to experience all the charms of the fail state in their own skin.


          22 years already experience hi .
          1. Karlsonn
            Karlsonn 26 June 2013 19: 31
            +1
            Kiev March 22, 2013.

    2. German
      German 26 June 2013 17: 40
      0
      Yes, yes! It is high time!
    3. Ustian
      Ustian 26 June 2013 23: 03
      0
      Quote: Orty
      In this case, I propose to denounce the state of Ukraine itself.

      The Americans will soon succeed in this, and others like them!
  10. Russ69
    Russ69 26 June 2013 09: 27
    +3
    We are suffering, we are still with this agreement. From time to time, there will constantly be attempts to break the contract.
  11. Gladius
    Gladius 26 June 2013 09: 31
    13
    The Russian fleet in Sevastopol only needs to be strengthened and strengthened. It is a stabilizing and deterrent factor in the Black Sea. Without it, various territorial claims against Ukraine from third countries could quite realistically arise, for example, Turkey may become interested in Crimea. It is bad that the Verkhovna Rada is not worried about its fleet, they believe that Ukraine is not threatened from outside and nobody is threatening - naive "pugs" ...
    1. Andrey77
      Andrey77 26 June 2013 09: 56
      +4
      The Crimean Peninsula is of little interest to Turkey (a lot of hemorrhoids - little use). On the contrary, vacationing in Turkey is now cheaper than in Ukraine (for a citizen of the Russian Federation). Previously, a visa to Turkey had to be obtained - now not. Nobody in the world perceives the Ukrainian military fleet; civil ships do not sail under the flag of Ukraine either ... They need Sevastopol only as a means of "cutting off the money" from the Russian Federation. I apologize for Fenya.
      1. avt
        avt 26 June 2013 10: 09
        +4
        Quote: Andrey77
        The Crimean peninsula is of little interest to Turkey (there are a lot of hemorrhoids - it is of little use).

        fool Well, you need to think not only in the stomach and lower hemispheres! This is a STRATEGIC point, and they will gladly enter to maintain a protectorate over the Krm-Tatar people.
        1. Andrey77
          Andrey77 26 June 2013 10: 20
          0
          avt, what do you think? Well, not a child. From a strategic point of view, Sevastopol was an advantageous position, but Novorossiysk is no worse. How would the fleet move from artillery to missiles if you did not know.
          1. Misantrop
            Misantrop 26 June 2013 10: 43
            +6
            Quote: Andrey77
            Novorossiysk is no worse. How would the fleet move from artillery to missiles if you did not know.

            And have such concepts as "volley distance", "flight time" also been canceled? And what about the winter storms in Novorossiysk Bay? Have you heard of such a cute phenomenon as "bora" (not a ship)? Or the main thing is to blurt out, and then the meaning will come by itself? lol
            1. Andrey77
              Andrey77 26 June 2013 10: 56
              +1
              About flying time - that's right. What airbases of the Russian Air Force are in the area of ​​Sevastopol? I’ll simplify the question, the flight time of the Russian Air Force attack aircraft to Sevastopol (the nearest Russian runway is your choice)? And at the same time, overcome the air defense of Ukraine. Good. They bring down Tel Aviv-Moscow flights to glory.
              1. biglow
                biglow 26 June 2013 14: 42
                +2
                Quote: Andrey77
                About flying time - that's right. What airbases of the Russian Air Force are in the area of ​​Sevastopol? I’ll simplify the question, the flight time of the Russian Air Force attack aircraft to Sevastopol (the nearest Russian runway is your choice)? And at the same time, overcome the air defense of Ukraine. Good. They bring down Tel Aviv-Moscow flights to glory.

                the Black Sea Fleet has its own aircraft in the village of Gvardeisky near Simferopol, the Black Sea Fleet also has 15 other objects in different regions of Crimea
                1. Misantrop
                  Misantrop 27 June 2013 00: 16
                  +1
                  Quote: biglow
                  Black Sea Fleet has its own aircraft in the village of Guards under the Simferopol
                  There is not a single one in the village. In the air garrison nearby - are available. Already a whole squadron of Sushki, transferred there from Mongolia. A drop dead equivalent replacement for the air division of Tu naval missile carriers, based there earlier in 3 garrisons (Guards, Vesyoloye, Oktyabrsky). And a separate Tu-22 regiment in Novofedorovka
          2. avt
            avt 26 June 2013 10: 53
            +8
            Quote: Andrey77
            Novorossiysk is no worse

            Since the time of Admiral Lazarev, Novorossiysk has NEVER been considered as the main base of the fleet, even Donuzlav in Crimea was the “reserve” of Sevastopol, and even when, as you put it, “How would the fleet switch from artillery to missiles, if you didn’t know.” Since Soviet times, Crimea has been equipped in such a way that it allowed the Black Sea Fleet to hold the entire Levant and the South Atlantic. Even the Germans, having occupied the Crimea, completely controlled the Black Sea with superiority in the ship composition of the Black Sea Fleet of the USSR. Those who own the Crimea are able to control the Black Sea at least with minimal costs and Taman is not a competitor here. Just ask yourself a question and try to answer it not from the standpoint of a visa-free trip to the resort. Why are the "enlightened sailors" still holding on with a stranglehold on Gibraltar, the airfield in Cyprus, and the Falklands, which are far from them?
            1. Andrey77
              Andrey77 26 June 2013 11: 07
              -3
              You carry some nonsense. I apologize in advance. Or troll.

              "Since Soviet times, Crimea has been equipped in such a way that it allowed the Black Sea Fleet to keep the entire Levant and the South Atlantic." Those. precisely from Soviet times? Have you been to Sevastopol? Have you seen the monument to the lost ships? Can you name the date on the monument, young Leninist?
              1. avt
                avt 26 June 2013 11: 20
                10
                Quote: Andrey77
                ? Have you been to Sevastopol? Have you seen the monument to the dead ships? You can’t name the date on the monument, young Leninist?

                Arguments your amiable campaign ended with you, judging by the answer laughing and to think about the previous question about "enlightened sailors" and Gibraltar reluctance, there was only bitter saliva in the mouth, well, keep splashing, young Gaidar.
                1. Karlsonn
                  Karlsonn 26 June 2013 15: 58
                  +5
                  avt hi

                  Quote: avt
                  Arguments your amiable campaign ended with you, judging by the answer


                  Greetings, a person apparently does not understand the issue at all.

                  Not only does not understand, but also a boor.
                  Quote: Andrey77
                  You can’t name the date on the monument, young Leninist?
                  1. avt
                    avt 26 June 2013 16: 13
                    +3
                    Quote: Karlsonn
                    Greetings, a person apparently does not understand the issue at all.

                    hi The most important thing that he does not want request Thats even
                    Quote: Andrey77
                    Have you seen the monument to the dead ships? You can’t name the date on the monument, young Leninist?
                    After all, I didn’t even bother to understand that the landing and the entire siege of Sevastopol was precisely conceived as the destruction of the Black Sea Fleet based in Sevastopol, because the peace treaty was signed immediately after its surrender, which is interesting that our command was afraid of breaking the Anglo-Franks army from Crimea and, in general, then Gorchakov, in accordance with this scenario, and sent troops to the North side. But even the Caucasus coast was not of interest to them, although in the then turbulent situation with the highlanders they could spoil a lot of the Empire’s blood, well, even the Turks were not allowed to go there and were not supported by the fleet, this is with complete domination of the sea! They approached the solution of the task very pragmatically, destroyed the fleet, ravaged the base and imposed a bonded world for this region of Russia.
                    1. Karlsonn
                      Karlsonn 26 June 2013 16: 30
                      +2
                      Quote: avt
                      After all, I didn’t even bother to understand that the landing and the entire siege of Sevastopol was precisely conceived as the destruction of the Black Sea Fleet based in Sevastopol


                      and I - about exactly the same thing. drinks
              2. Orty
                Orty 26 June 2013 12: 13
                +3
                I agree with avt, you don’t have any arguments about drooling with an excursion into the history of the sailing fleet, although you yourself set the time frame with a mention of missile weapons. Drain counted!
            2. Misantrop
              Misantrop 27 June 2013 00: 20
              0
              Quote: avt
              ,, the reserve "of Sevastopol was Donuzlav in Crimea
              Donuzlav was just planned, the reserve was a naval base in Feodosia
    2. Ustian
      Ustian 26 June 2013 23: 06
      0
      Quote: Gladius
      for example, Turkey may be interested in Crimea

      They are already interested in them !!! (topwar.ru/29383-krym-otdelnoe-gosudarstvo.html)
  12. Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 26 June 2013 09: 40
    +4
    And when the "Fleet of damned Russians" leaves, who will defend Ukraine if the Turks suddenly remember the old days of Suleiman the Magnificent? And what, there are no more Russians, the whole world looks at Ukraine as an empty space, you can try to support the separatism of the Crimean Tatars and recreate the Crimean Khanate and It is good for the Ottomans, and Russia will have an Islamic hearth close by. I wonder if the bald degenerate Khrushch did anything useful? Because of the decision of one idiot, everyone is suffering now and it is not known how it will come back to haunt the future.
    1. tomas.09
      tomas.09 26 June 2013 09: 49
      +2
      Then they will write a letter to the Turkish Sultan, but no longer obscene !!!
    2. Andrey77
      Andrey77 26 June 2013 10: 00
      +1
      Nobody is going to attack Ukraine. For that matter, the Turks will stupidly buy it. Whole.
      1. Karlsonn
        Karlsonn 26 June 2013 16: 00
        +3
        Quote: Andrey77
        For that matter, the Turks will stupidly buy it. Whole.


        laughing MEGAEXPERT !!! In the attack!
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. itkul
      itkul 26 June 2013 16: 30
      0
      Quote: Standard Oil
      And when the Fleet of Damned Russians leaves, who will defend Ukraine if the Turks suddenly remember the old days of Suleiman the Magnificent?


      You probably forgot that Russia and the United States gave security guarantees to Ukraine for renouncing nuclear weapons.
      1. Orty
        Orty 26 June 2013 16: 41
        +2
        We know what the US guarantees are.
      2. Naval
        Naval 26 June 2013 16: 53
        +2
        Guarantees for mattresses are empty words, they will want, they will immediately find that they store chemical, bact, and at the same time nuclear weapons in the mines of the Donbass and deliver a preventive strike with the subsequent democratization of the cleared country. The lessons of Iraq, Libya and Yugoslavia confirm this.
  13. 128mgb
    128mgb 26 June 2013 10: 04
    +6
    As far as I remember, when the lease agreement is terminated, Ukraine will have to pay a decent penalty. And she will be able to pay only if the dollar is worth the same as the Soviet ruble. So all this is chatter, it's not for nothing that the people of Radu are called "circus on a dart"
    1. pensioner
      pensioner 26 June 2013 11: 01
      +1
      Quote: 128mgb
      Radu is called "circus on a dart"

      Sorry, circus on what?
      1. Corneli
        Corneli 26 June 2013 16: 46
        +3
        Quote: retired
        Quote: 128mgb
        Radu is called "circus on a dart"

        Sorry, circus on what?

        "Drot" is a wire. In a literal sense, sort of like about circus tightrope walkers ... In a figurative way - "the circus left, the clowns remained" ... Something like this
        1. pensioner
          pensioner 26 June 2013 17: 23
          0
          Thank you so much! My vocabulary is expanding with your help! (on the mountain to the authorities ...)
    2. Black Colonel
      Black Colonel 26 June 2013 11: 37
      +2
      "circus on a dart"
      Circus nerds.
  14. Misantrop
    Misantrop 26 June 2013 10: 06
    +7
    Oppositionists themselves have not fully decided what they really want.
    Long ago they decided, they want money. And for this, all means are good. The voice of an unknown deputy is not expensive, so they are trying to "become famous". Who is "deputy Oleg Lyashchko"? Yes, no one, and there is no way to call him, so they do not call (and do not pay). But if "the author of bills", then there is already a different price tag ... request
    1. MG42
      MG42 26 June 2013 11: 53
      +5
      Quote: Misantrop
      Who is "deputy Oleg Lyashchko"? Yes, no one, and there is no way to call him, so they do not call (and do not pay)

      You are mistaken. Although yesterday they called not to talk about them. I’ll say it once today.
      Deputy Oleg Lyashko is perhaps the most famous homosexual in the Ukrainian parliament, he actually does not hide this.
      A 1993 video where he is interrogated by the police and talks about his adventures ..

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74T3DAgRKHs
      1. Corneli
        Corneli 26 June 2013 16: 52
        +1
        Quote: MG42
        You are mistaken. Although yesterday they called not to talk about them. I’ll say it once today.
        Deputy Oleg Lyashko is perhaps the most famous homosexual in the Ukrainian parliament, he actually does not hide this.

        As for Lyashka, there are 2 good scenes):
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heZcbHBmmiU
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOW_NptVdgc
        Take a look laugh
        1. MG42
          MG42 26 June 2013 17: 41
          +2
          Quote: Corneli
          Take a look laugh

          I’ve already seen thanks, the video there looks like one famous Russian program and heroes ala Mikhalych = Adamych and steelmaker Dulin
          <All this would be funny if it weren't so sad> = a bunch of clowns having fun for taxpayers' money >>
          On the link below, the clown Lyashko eats land right on the podium of the Supreme Council

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93VUeagH0vU

          Well, here the vice speaker of BP strangles him jumping up No.

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRQIbM8_B3k
      2. Misantrop
        Misantrop 27 June 2013 10: 00
        0
        Quote: MG42
        You are mistaken. Although yesterday they called not to talk about them. I’ll say it once today.
        Deputy Oleg Lyashko is perhaps the most famous homosexual in the Ukrainian parliament, he actually does not hide this.

        Exactly. In pursuit of popularity, he did not regret his own ass. As a result: ass - to shreds, but no money. Now he is trying to cut money with anti-Russian rhetoric ... I wonder what he will get to, if they break it down too? sad
  15. pa_nik
    pa_nik 26 June 2013 10: 38
    0
    "Well, where is, where is the Doctor, when will he come !?" (FROM) what
  16. Opera
    Opera 26 June 2013 10: 52
    +3
    Yes, everything will be fine! And with lard and with gas and fleet!
    1. MG42
      MG42 26 June 2013 12: 13
      +2
      Quote: Oper
      Yes, everything will be fine! And with lard and with gas and fleet!

      Yeah, the graph confirms this ..
  17. ed65b
    ed65b 26 June 2013 10: 55
    +1
    In Ukraine, no matter how we scolded the authorities, pragmatists remain. They are well aware that in the event of a denunciation of the treaty, something may happen that they are not yet able to calculate, and how Russia will react given the problem of Crimea is not known. For example, there is a Guantanamo cube. even after all, the United States did not withdraw the base from the territory of a hostile state.
    1. Orty
      Orty 26 June 2013 12: 51
      +4
      Pragmatists are everywhere and always, the question is in whose interests their pragmatism is manifested. If it is in the interests of the state and they are at the helm as in Russia, but if it is in the interests of narrow oligarchic groups and whether it is in the interests of the EU, then there is another result. In addition, populist politicians tend to blame Moscow and their domestic agents for all sins in Ukraine. They talk a lot, but they don’t do nichrome, the majority are there. However, there are even worse characters: these are Natsiks who are seriously convinced that it is not themselves they who are to blame for all the troubles of their country, but Russia, these are even more dangerous because if the first are just fools, then the second are fools with initiative, the worst kind of fool possible.
    2. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 26 June 2013 16: 31
      +3
      ed65b hi

      Quote: ed65b
      In Ukraine


      sorry, but - "In Ukraine".
  18. Nitarius
    Nitarius 26 June 2013 11: 40
    +1
    What do they achieve? Well, nothing good will come of it! what to FRAUD in the well? because then you have to get drunk out of it.
    Everyone has a lot of ambitions. But together we are Strength. Such a feeling the rulers of Ukraine do not think about the People at all
  19. MG42
    MG42 26 June 2013 12: 04
    +3
    The opposition simply doesn’t have any votes now and the Communist Party and the Communist Party are against it, so deputies can not worry about running away from the opposition again, moreover, it’s difficult to break such an interstate agreement unilaterally, because there is also a gas discount of $ 100 / thousand cubic meters. in exchange for an extension based until 2042
  20. andrejwz
    andrejwz 26 June 2013 12: 29
    +2
    Unconstructive offer.
    I propose that Russia, the successor of the USSR, is a promise for Russia to submit to the State Duma of the Russian Federation a draft law on denunciation of the Decree of the Presidium of the USSR Supreme Soviet on the transfer of the Crimea region from the RSFSR to the Ukrainian SSR.
    Why wait?
    1. skullcap
      skullcap 26 June 2013 18: 05
      0
      Quote: andrejwz
      I propose that Russia, the successor of the USSR, is a promise for Russia to submit to the State Duma of the Russian Federation a draft law on denunciation of the Decree of the Presidium of the USSR Supreme Soviet on the transfer of the Crimea region from the RSFSR to the Ukrainian SSR.

      But this idea should be developed to complete:
      to hire more Svidomo from the Republic of Dagestan, not stingy to pay, and when they denounce the agreement on the Black Sea Fleet, using this as a precedent, to denounce the Belovezhsk agreement.
      And immediately all will be well.
  21. Ulysses
    Ulysses 26 June 2013 12: 39
    +1
    Nothing to the independent people.
    And take off the hell.
    The dogs are barking, the caravan is on.
  22. Antibrim
    Antibrim 26 June 2013 12: 57
    +1
    Ukraine depends on Russia more than we do on them, and they are still trying to show their teeth, neither mind nor imagination
    1. Orty
      Orty 26 June 2013 14: 00
      +1
      Well, yak, quoting one famous character "Abroad will help us!", That's their whole mind, well, still fill their pockets.
  23. Yankuz
    Yankuz 26 June 2013 13: 30
    0
    What is there to stand on ceremony with them? Crimea has always been Russian! Pick it up and do not bathe anymore. And the transfer of the Crimea to the Ukrainian SSR Khrushchev declared illegal!
    1. Orty
      Orty 26 June 2013 13: 58
      0
      Yeah, declare it all a crime of communism! After all, will Ukrainian politicians really not support the crimes of communism? Restore violated justice, so to speak. By the way, take the East, too, and give west to Galicia to the Poles let them deal with these abnormal ones!
    2. SIT
      SIT 26 June 2013 16: 26
      +1
      The resolution of the PVS of the RSFSR of February 5, 1954 and the Decree of the PVS of the USSR of February 19, 1954 “On the transfer of the Crimean region from the RSFSR to the Ukrainian SSR” says nothing about Sevastopol. And starting from October 29, 1948 on the territory of the Crimean peninsula there were 2 administrative units of the Crimean region. and the city of Sevastopol, as an independent entity of union-republican subordination. So Khrushchev did not give Ukraine to Sevastopol. All claims against EBN. From which hangover he gave Sevastopol is not clear.
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 27 June 2013 00: 26
        0
        Quote: SIT
        And starting from October 29, 1948 on the territory of the Crimean peninsula there were 2 administrative units of the Crimean region. and the city of Sevastopol, as an independent entity of union-republican subordination.
        You will laugh, but now Sevastopol is not subordinate to the Crimean authorities. Fully autonomous administration with direct subordination to Kiev (even the mayor of the city is not elected, but appointed from there). Classic self-locking ... request
  24. knn54
    knn54 26 June 2013 14: 38
    +5
    Not a pro-American lobby.
    PS According to a survey conducted in April 2013 by the R&B group, the vast majority of Ukrainians (78%) do not see big differences between Russians and Ukrainians. Only 17% believe that these differences are more than common. At the same time, those who consider that there are more differences than the total between residents of the East and the West, ~ 35% of the country's population!
  25. gych
    gych 26 June 2013 15: 53
    +1
    Quote: Andrey77
    Nobody is going to attack Ukraine. For that matter, the Turks will stupidly buy it. Whole.
    I totally agree! only Turkey isn’t in the Crimea, it’s up to you to auction! Well, defenders will protect the land of Slavic (not Russian, not Ukrainian, namely Slavic), not those who saliva incite ethnic conflict and consider themselves the highest race, and those who believe in the unification of the Slavs! about the letter to the khan and write it together, and write, and not only the khan
  26. Skavron
    Skavron 26 June 2013 16: 12
    +3
    The fleet to be! I would not take money for rent. Yes, even a bridge would be across the strait - in general, beauty would be.
    Only I do not understand the screams of hysterics about "take the Crimea"!
    Do not beguiled anything?
  27. montemor
    montemor 26 June 2013 16: 26
    0
    Quote: Povshnik
    Quote: rugor
    The fleet may be relocated, in part or for the most part, but Sevastopol will surely remain ours forever.


    Or maybe the time has come to return Crimea to the original owners? that is, Russia and correct the mistake of Khrushchev.

    then immediately Tatars and Turks, I'm sorry, but they have more rights than yours
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 26 June 2013 16: 34
      +2
      Quote: montemor
      then immediately Tatars and Turks, I'm sorry, but they have more rights than yours


      and Bobruisk - to beavers? laughing
      Why is it that Tatars and Turks are right more?
      1. Orty
        Orty 26 June 2013 16: 40
        +2
        I agree with what buoy here Turks and Tatars? Moreover, the Russians lived in Crimea long before the arrival of the Tatars and the fall of Crimea under the authority of the Port. And in the place of the Crimean Tatars, I would shut up at all, because when they annexed Crimea they were not allowed to go under the knife for all the evil, the raids and slave trade that they have been doing for centuries is only our good will. However, as WWII’s experience proved, people don’t understand there, sometimes you look at their performances and think that the ancestors were too merciful.
      2. shamil
        shamil 26 June 2013 17: 28
        0
        you still remember Neanderthals 250 thousand years ago
        1. Orty
          Orty 26 June 2013 18: 30
          +1
          Sorry, but why can Jews claim the lands that were Israel more than 2 years ago, but we can’t talk about the events of 000-400 years ago? Or how Russian can recall something and you can reach Prince Igor, but as we recall something, so right away screech, they say it was a long time ago! For a long time, but no one has been forgotten, nothing has been forgotten, and when people like the Krymchaks begin to greet and yap, then reminding them is not a sin, you know with a hint.
    2. Simon
      Simon 26 June 2013 23: 04
      0
      And before the Tatars and Turks, the Greeks lived there, maybe they can be returned to them and they have the right to do so.
  28. Naval
    Naval 26 June 2013 16: 45
    0
    The Russian fleet helps in ensuring the independence of Ukraine, guaranteeing with its presence the security and defense capabilities of its borders.
    It would not hurt the nationalists to ponder these words, you cannot live according to the principle "to spite my mother, I will freeze my ears"
    1. shamil
      shamil 26 June 2013 17: 15
      0
      100% agree
    2. Misantrop
      Misantrop 27 June 2013 00: 29
      0
      Quote: Naval
      It would not hurt the nationalists to ponder these words, you cannot live according to the principle "to spite my mother, I will freeze my ears"

      They would have thought it over if ... they had not frozen their heads. Classically, to spite everyone
  29. tomich
    tomich 26 June 2013 16: 49
    0
    Well, they terminated the contract and what? But if the Russian fleet does not leave? parliamentarians go boarding? it will be interesting to see it. In general, I believe that the Russian fleet should be based there free of charge, because Ukraine itself has not had its own fleet for a long time in case of military aggression
  30. shamil
    shamil 26 June 2013 17: 09
    0
    there will be no Russian there will be no Ukrainian Sevastopol associated with the BSF !!!!
  31. shamil
    shamil 26 June 2013 17: 14
    -2
    a couple of rusty dishes, and one odlohodka is not a fleet, so to raise the flag and all the American scoundrels. Balaclava - the museum was made - no
    1. shamil
      shamil 26 June 2013 23: 14
      0
      I'm talking about the Ukrainian fleet
  32. darksoul
    darksoul 26 June 2013 17: 59
    0
    Withdraw Russian fleet from Crimea? maybe Ukraine to withdraw from the Crimea? Khrushchev, in my words, gave Crimea to the Ukrainian SSR ... who knows, in general, are there any legal grounds and papers securing Crimea for Ukraine? or maybe we’ll wait for such a leader who will tell Crimea to us fat to you
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 26 June 2013 19: 43
      +2
      Quote: darksoul
      or maybe we’ll wait for such a leader who will tell Crimea to us fat to you


      come and tell me about the fat in Sevastopol.

  33. Kosatka
    Kosatka 26 June 2013 19: 40
    +2
    Shobla BARYG and fascist samostitsy are glad that in Kiev, BLOCKED this territory under the name Ukraine. These garn are lads and sofas, they are well aware that if the fleet goes to Russia, then together with Sevastopol and the whole Crimea. And there other regions will catch up. This self-made remake, in comparison with the Ukrainian SSR, is a completely degraded smadur and bankrupt. And this stupid pack that sits in Kiyovo, headed by the nonsense who seem to be the guarantors of the constitution, drive their nenko together with the people into a deep and dirty J..U. The collapse and confederation of Ukraine will be the result of the activities of these mudilos.
    1. Ustian
      Ustian 26 June 2013 22: 47
      +1
      Quote: Kosatka
      Shobla BARYG and fascist samostitsy are glad that in Kiev, BLOCKED this territory under the name Ukraine

      You, of course, do not be offended, but it seems that the Council is still boiled in 90x fool .As you hear about the "bills" adopted or accepted for consideration, it seems that they are being nurtured by a bunch of insane. In the Russian Duma there is also a circus, but this is a circus of the XXI century. laughing
  34. shamil
    shamil 26 June 2013 21: 36
    0
    what are you minus if so
  35. Ustian
    Ustian 26 June 2013 22: 34
    +1
    Having shown hostility towards Moscow, Ukraine de facto withdrew from the "grand agreement" on cooperation with Russia and thereby untied its hands. After ratifying this treaty in the late 90s, the Russian side viewed Ukraine as an ally and it was in the context of these relations that it removed all territorial claims to Ukraine. Today, after Kiev itself tore up the "big treaty", and even drives the Russian fleet from Sevastopol, Russia has every reason to make claims to its ancestral territories, including Crimea.

    Repeating Georgia’s strategic mistakes, Ukraine risks the same result: loss of territorial integrity and bankruptcy of pro-American authorities.
    According to newsland.ru
  36. 7ydmco
    7ydmco 26 June 2013 22: 42
    +1
    The main thing is not to forget that we are one people, and the authorities will change anyway.