Military Review

The construction of "Mistral" and the strange statements of officials

73
Last week was rich on news about the Russian-French contract, implying the delivery of two universal landing ships (UDC) of the type Mistral. With a difference of several days, or even hours, several messages were received telling about the construction of the ordered equipment. At the same time, as has repeatedly happened before, the information announced was the reason for the continuation of long-standing disputes about the need for such ships.


The construction of "Mistral" and the strange statements of officials


Perhaps the loudest news of the last week was the statements of the Deputy Minister of Defense of Russia Y. Borisov. An official from the Ministry of Defense announced the breakdown of a part of the project. According to him, the aft part of the hull of the first Mistral for Russia will not be built at Russian enterprises, but in France. As the reason for this, Borisov cited the sluggishness of the employees of the shipbuilding enterprise “Severnaya Verf” (St. Petersburg). This plant does not have time to fulfill its contractual obligations and therefore the assembly of a large aggregate will be entrusted to French shipbuilders. It is worth noting that this statement was made during the Le Bourget Air Show, held near Paris.

The news of the deadlines on the part of Severnaya Verf caused a lot of questions. First of all, for the reason that the construction of the aft part of the hull of the future ship “Vladivostok” is being carried out at the Baltic Shipyard. According to official reports from the United Shipbuilding Corporation, all assembly work is currently being completed. Already on June 26 installed on a special pontoon, the stern will be lowered into the water, and will be sent to France in early July. Of course, during the construction of such a complex unit there were some problems, but in the end everything was resolved and the construction would be handed over to French builders in accordance with the previously planned deadlines.

The further construction of the first Mistral for the Russian Navy will look as follows. By the beginning of autumn, the French shipyard in the city of Saint-Nazaire will connect the stern with the rest of the hull. The launch of the ship is scheduled for October. After that, installation of some systems and units will continue, which is planned to be completed next 2014. In this form, Vladivostok will be transferred to Russia, where it will be equipped with weapons. Ship transfer to naval the fleet scheduled for 2014-2015. Thus, all the work will take about 2-2,5 years, which may indicate a slight reduction in the construction period of UDC for Russia.

It is difficult to say for what reason there was a “sensational” news, in which the shipbuilding enterprise “Severnaya Verf” was mentioned. Probably, the Deputy Minister of Defense just made a reservation. However, further the situation developed in accordance with the well-known anecdote about proles and sediments: the real stern manufacturer Vladivostok was found, but its production success still cannot drown out the bewilderment from the original news.

It should be noted, Borisov told not only about some incomprehensible problems with the construction of the stern of the first ship. He also denied earlier reports of Mistral technical problems for the Russian fleet. According to the Deputy Minister of Defense, all the speculations about the performance of equipment in northern latitudes or the necessary fuels and lubricants do not correspond to reality. French ships fully meet the requirements for them. As for the use of such ships, such questions should be asked to the command of the fleet.

On the same day, June 18, another information appeared concerning Mistral. This time it became known about the beginning of the construction of the second amphibious ship for our country, which received the name "Sevastopol". The construction of this UDC will go according to the scheme already worked out: the majority of the structures will be assembled by the French, and several sections will be manufactured by the workers of the Baltic factory. According to reports, immediately after sending the aft part of Vladivostok to France, St. Petersburg shipbuilders will begin assembling the Sevastopol units. The transfer to the fleet of the second universal amphibious assault ship will take place approximately one year after the acceptance of Vladivostok. Both ships will serve in the Pacific Fleet. Previously, some sources claimed that the new ships could replenish the combat strength of the Black Sea Fleet, but this information was refuted.

Just a couple of days after the appearance of information about the failure of contractual obligations - 20 June - Deputy Prime Minister D. Rogozin arrived at the Baltic Shipyard. He personally inspected the constructed structures and dispelled all fears. According to him, the ship will be completed on time, and the production process is controlled by both the Russian and the French side. Such statements at the highest level look encouraging. However, this time it was not without oddities. Thus, the media quoted Rogozin, according to which the first "Mistral" will be put into service in October of this year. And again, as in the case of Yu. Borisov, questions arise concerning the essence of such a statement.

Perhaps Rogozin simply confused the naval terms and in fact meant the launching, which will take place in October. At the same time, such errors, which require a separate explanation, leave an ambiguous impression and do not contribute to improving the image of individuals and shipbuilding in general. Moreover, both reservations for the authorship of high-ranking officials sounded in statements on the same topic and for one week, which gives the situation a completely ugly look.

And yet, despite the factories that were mixed up and the ship’s construction stages, the Russian navy is gradually approaching the day when the first universal landing ship will join it. Our country has not yet had ships of this class, and it is the absence of ready-made projects, as we know, that was the reason for signing a contract with France. Initially, Russia planned to acquire four MDCs, but at the end of last year the plans changed a little. According to the modified plans of the Russian Ministry of Defense, our Navy will first receive only two ships. According to the results of the first years of their operation, a decision will be made on the need to purchase two more ships.

It is noteworthy that both Yu. Borisov and D. Rogozin, commenting on the construction of the new Mistrals, unanimously expressed the need for such a division of the series. Both high-ranking officials believe that the expediency of purchasing the third and fourth ships should be determined later when our country receives Vladivostok and Sevastopol. At the same time, spending on the purchase of all four ships has already been included in the state rearmament program. Borisov also noted that Russia, in accordance with the agreements reached, can choose a specific method of construction. The third and fourth "Mistrals" can be built according to the existing scheme (some parts of the building are built in France and Russia, and after assembly they are completed with factories in both countries) or only at Russian enterprises, or not at all.

As a result, if we discard all the strange statements, etc. dubious things, the situation with the UDC of the Mistral type, being built for the Russian Navy, looks generally positive. The construction of the first ship of the series will be completed in the coming months, and by that time full-scale work on the designs of the second will unfold. So far, there is no reason to doubt the observance of the deadlines for the completion of construction and the acceptance of ships into service. Hopefully, the current problems with the understanding of certain statements will remain the most serious obstacle to the international project, and the modern Russian warships will receive on time the Russian Navy.







On the materials of the sites:
http://ria.ru/
http://armstass.su/
http://lenta.ru/
http://ntv.ru/
http://rus.ruvr.ru/
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  1. Tatarus
    Tatarus 24 June 2013 08: 05 New
    +8
    And it is not necessary to USE Mistral in the northern latitudes. Pkst graze between Tartus and Cyprus. Their very climate. And the ships are warm and our flags.
    1. Rustam
      Rustam 24 June 2013 09: 27 New
      25


      Recently spoke in another post, right now I will not spray, but a few words I would like to say

      1-regarding the words of Deputy Minister Borisov (upsets that he doesn’t have a taste for what BZ does stern, this contract made the company revive, which at one time the gentlemen and USC brought to bankruptcy - now thanks to working with France, the plant came to life - here you go + (of cooperation)

      even his words with these words, we are closing custom articles in the press from pigs from USC (for the last two years I have spoken and argued that this is all a lie)

      Borisov also denied earlier reports of the Mistral technical problems for the Russian fleet. According to the Deputy Minister of Defense, all speculations on the performance of equipment in the northern latitudes or the necessary fuels and lubricants do not correspond to reality. French ships fully satisfy the requirements imposed on them - that’s all that was required to prove.

      2-Rogozin, to whom clowns from the USC provided fictional myths about poor ice stability or lubrication (putting him in a clown position), he himself admitted that Mistral also met all the requirements presented, and he took up the gentlemen from the USC
      here's another + piggy bank repeat

      all on this, I think discussing Mistral before they enter the Navy already makes no sense, and look lately there are no stats telling me that Mistral has grenades of the wrong system - the sponsors of such articles from the USC are no longer up to it, we would be able to sit on the ass


      my concern again

      a) the development and mass production of KA-52K?
      b) there is also no contract with Kumeratu and which helicopters will be based (transport) and there is little time for buildup; the French work like clockwork


      PS-there is a rumor that one of the Mistral will be the flagships of the Mediterranean squadron, and the main escort will consist of new frigates 11356 which are being built at Amber and will begin to arrive at the Black Sea Fleet in 2014.

      Hello to all those who really believed in fairy tales about inappropriate fuel, and so on.

      Above, the article shows the stages of building a DVD for the French Navy, that's where you need to study

      and here is our photo (clickable) June 2013 side view of the "real" one.
      DVD "Vladivostok" at the shipyard in Saint-Nazaire
      1. saturn.mmm
        saturn.mmm 24 June 2013 14: 52 New
        +9
        Quote: Rustam
        and here is our photo (clickable) June 2013 side view of the "real" one.
        DVD "Vladivostok" at the shipyard in Saint-Nazaire

        And here is a photo of the large landing complex "Ivan Gren" under construction since 2004, once again at the end of 2012 it was decided to make changes to the design, which means that the end of construction is not yet visible and has been building for almost 10 years. Displacement 5000 tons. I sincerely sympathize with the workers of the Amber Plant with BDK. But the record we have is the construction of the multipurpose nuclear submarine pr.885 "Severodvinsk" - laid down on December 21, 1993, 20 years.
      2. fedorovith
        fedorovith 24 June 2013 16: 53 New
        +2
        Regarding the K-52K, they have already reported on TV that the "Katran" was done, so now the name is KA-52K.
      3. dmitreach
        dmitreach 25 June 2013 04: 31 New
        +1
        Rustam, in all this hype, the "postnikovshina" strains me ... (the story of the 17th modification of the Soviet T-72) Although if you dig deeper into that story, try understand Postnikov, it’s even possible and forgive... For there is a rational thought, even in places it is possible to agree (in the part: "to work, not live in the past") ... But! People of this rank should not be able to demonstrate knowledge, the level is worse than the guests of Internet forums ...
        Well, according to sabzh ...
        We are waiting for the day of the Navy. There will be a lot of delicious! And you can try to track those related industries that have already been pushed by the DVKD Vladivostok, the fact of its existence.
    2. alexkross83
      alexkross83 24 June 2013 12: 46 New
      0
      What is so special about these Mistrals, such that our domestic shipbuilders could not have produced? What is the secret ... so to speak ...? It’s not clear ... And of course, it would be a trough, but where will they find him grazing ...
      1. Hemi cuda
        Hemi cuda 24 June 2013 13: 50 New
        +6
        Nothing special unless our shipbuilders build an destroyer for 8 years, it’s easier and faster to order from the French.
        1. zardoz
          zardoz 25 June 2013 03: 07 New
          +3
          Well, show USC that the light did not converge on them
      2. dmitreach
        dmitreach 25 June 2013 04: 18 New
        +2
        What is the secret ... so to speak ...? Unclear...

        And you try to consider this contract not as a trough with turntables, but as a "flagship" of the whole branch of heavy industry - Shipbuilding. And then it will become clearer. Remember at least one comparable in scope of work gray ships (except for the Hindus) that the fleet surrendered in the past decade?
  2. 123tank
    123tank 24 June 2013 08: 09 New
    0
    Reading this article is a double impression. I don’t understand: are these ships needed or not? Could we design and build ourselves.
    1. govoruha-otrok
      govoruha-otrok 24 June 2013 08: 13 New
      +7
      apparently today could not
    2. sanych
      sanych 24 June 2013 08: 21 New
      0
      Exactly! Since the money has already been allocated for four ships, to finish building these two, and to use the freed up funds at our shipyards to build large landing ships of the same type "Ivan Gren". All the same, our, Russian project. And so far they are building in a single copy! Disorder !!!
    3. Gecko
      Gecko 24 June 2013 08: 33 New
      +8
      Unfortunately, they would design and build, with such a state of affairs as we have in this industry, at least 2 times longer. A little expensive of course, but I hope our shipbuilders working in conjunction with the French will master new technologies and a production culture. We definitely need universal ships of this class.
    4. the polar
      the polar 24 June 2013 11: 06 New
      +2
      Quote: 123tank
      Reading this article is a double impression. I don’t understand: are these ships needed or not? Could we design and build ourselves.

      If they could build a feed block, then they could probably build the entire hull. Moreover, they themselves will have to install weapons systems and electronics.
      All that remains is the French power plant. Are there really such unattainable virtues in her?
      1. Rustam
        Rustam 24 June 2013 12: 48 New
        +6
        polar (1) Today, 11:06 ↑
        All that remains is the French power plant. Really in her such unattainable advantages
        _________________

        Wake up robbed us (just to say, and what and how it doesn’t matter, the truth is) the main thing is to crap in advance, right? Only the aces and kings have no more craps in the deck (there are no reasonable arguments against) am

        Yes, the power plant on it is not French - the ships are equipped with Finnish Wartsila diesel engines

        85% of the systems and electronics will be of French production, including the Système d'Exploitation Navale des Informations Tactiques-9 (abbreviated as SENIT-9) combat information and control system, as well as the SIC-21 command control system, as well as the Infrared search and targeting system " Vampir NG ”from“ SAGEM ”and much more.

        PS-about retrofitting from the UDC is not going to make a Death Star wink ,
        and they’ll deliver a couple of AK-630 caliber anti-aircraft artillery mounts of 30 caliber, and a couple of Gibok, they will also put the satellite communications station R-793-M "Trailer-M" and the satellite communications station R-794-1 "Centaurus-NM1"

        photo (for general development) - Infrared search and sighting system “Vampir NG” is an ultra-long-range system. It enables combat surface ships to carry out circular passive surveillance of the surface situation. In automatic mode, it detects, maintains and reports on the presence of identified threats. The Vampir NG system is capable of detecting and tracking targets such as anti-ship cruise missiles traveling along a flat trajectory, and enemy fast boats.
        1. Russ69
          Russ69 24 June 2013 12: 58 New
          +4
          Quote: Rustam
          and they’ll deliver a couple of AK-630 caliber anti-aircraft artillery mounts of 30 caliber, and a couple of Gibok, they will also put the satellite communications station R-793-M "Trailer-M" and the satellite communications station R-794-1 "Centaurus-NM1"

          Well yes, like that
        2. bddrus
          bddrus 24 June 2013 13: 12 New
          +2
          and so as not to put the Duet? instead of ak-630
        3. dmitreach
          dmitreach 25 June 2013 04: 40 New
          +1
          Here it is worth mentioning the continuation and development, which has already become a strategic partnership with France (and Finland) in the field of Heavy Industry. Here and DCNS, and Soot, and Safran, and Thales, and Alist and Vyartsilya and more. DVKD has something in common with SSJ - our industry is developing. This alone paid for the entire project.
        4. Basarev
          Basarev 8 February 2014 13: 26 New
          0
          It seems to me that Russian engineers are quite capable of constructing a system no worse than the Frankish one, only officials are fascinated by everything foreign ...
      2. alexkross83
        alexkross83 24 June 2013 12: 55 New
        -4
        It remains only to get a French rollback ... but there is nothing else French there :-) :-) :-)
        1. Anat1974
          Anat1974 24 June 2013 19: 46 New
          +3
          Nurses again?
    5. Army1
      Army1 24 June 2013 11: 40 New
      +1
      Quote: 123tank
      So I didn’t understand: are these ships needed or not?

      Well, given that for the Russian Navy these ships will be slightly changed: our air defense, universal launcher, possibly a BIUS, the Mistral is well able to provide anti-submarine defense, use tactical strike weapons (and there may be a lot of them), command a naval group, and it’s already good to have a large ship under the St. Andrew’s flag, if you add new destroyers and an aircraft carrier to this, it will be generally cool, but that’s in the future.
  3. My address
    My address 24 June 2013 08: 40 New
    +3
    As a little bit (no more), who is knowledgeable in military problems, I have questions for LADIES. What for? Why not two of his destroyers for one such trough? You heard about the balance of the types of the armed forces? Do you know why BDK is needed?

    But it will be questions to the stupid deaf.
    1. MilaPhone
      MilaPhone 24 June 2013 09: 20 New
      +7
      Well, if you definitely decided, then you are here: http://medvedevu.ru/index/0-2
      Do not forget to publish only the answer to the "Military Review". bully
      1. MilaPhone
        MilaPhone 24 June 2013 09: 49 New
        +3
        By the way, in the photo, the moment of signing the deal on the Mistrals.
      2. My address
        My address 24 June 2013 09: 51 New
        +1
        Turned earlier to both DAM and GDP. True, not on this issue. Received the answer only from adm. GDP.

        BDK are needed to capture a foreign shore. ANOTHER! What is Russia going to seize? What for FOUR (!) BDK? Not enough of our own ?! What can the Mistral do? Move an infantry battalion? Accept a thousand refugees? To be an idiotic command post, for the protection of which at least four more ships can be invented, two of them are submarines?

        Sorry, but the Mistrals are trough.
        1. MilaPhone
          MilaPhone 24 June 2013 10: 02 New
          +4
          Quote: My address
          Turned earlier to both DAM and GDP. True, not on this issue. Received the answer only from adm. GDP.

          Similarly!
          Quote: My address
          Sorry, but the Mistrals are trough.

          Possibly. But the trough is very complicated and expensive. We would have something simpler and in a larger quantity. For example, the same Fudr "(ancestor of Mistral).
          By the way, Fudr was handed over to the Chileans on December 23, 2011 immediately after the admission to the French Navy UDC Diksmyud (3rd type Mistral). And for 43 million euros!
          1. MilaPhone
            MilaPhone 24 June 2013 10: 07 New
            +6
            It is clear that a second-hand, and even a different class of ship, but 43 million euros! I think ships of this class our shipbuilders would have mastered faster.
            Is it really bad?
            1. My address
              My address 24 June 2013 10: 34 New
              0
              I agree with you. All the best.
        2. Army1
          Army1 24 June 2013 11: 57 New
          +1
          Quote: My address
          BDK needed to capture someone else's shore. ALIEN

          Well, in general, yes, we would have managed without it, now that we are already building, we are thinking where to add them. Everything else I wrote above.
        3. Alexxeg73
          Alexxeg73 24 June 2013 12: 26 New
          +3
          It is convenient to arrange cruises for the command on it.
        4. Marconi41
          Marconi41 25 June 2013 02: 01 New
          0
          Sorry, but the Mistrals are trough.
          And what then are our BDK? Or are they all completely laid up and need to be written off? And at the expense of the capture of "ALIEN", so we have a lot of unprotected places where you can land troops at least for defense (and not only). For example the Kuril Islands.
          1. old man54
            old man54 25 June 2013 12: 14 New
            0
            Quote: Marconi41
            so we have a lot of unprotected places where you can land at least for defense (and not only). For example, the Kuril Islands.

            sorry but write nonsense, without delving into the problem!
            1. zardoz
              zardoz 25 June 2013 12: 22 New
              +1
              So what is the nonsense, if you delve into the problem?
              1. dmitreach
                dmitreach 25 June 2013 12: 48 New
                +1
                zardoz, sir (old man54), must be about the "Death Star", secretly dreaming. :)
                1. old man54
                  old man54 25 June 2013 19: 54 New
                  0
                  Quote: dmitreach
                  zardoz, sir (old man54), must be about the "Death Star", secretly dreaming. :)

                  I dream of the fifth element, as in the film of the same name by Luc Besson! I left childhood long ago, when "Star Wars" captured and delighted me!
              2. old man54
                old man54 25 June 2013 20: 17 New
                0
                Quote: zardoz
                So what is the nonsense, if you delve into the problem?

                But the obvious nonsense and profanity is that you don’t need to land on your own coast when it is already captured, but rather to create defensive lines in such directions and in such areas, especially since the danger has been looming for many years (I'm talking about the Kuril Islands ) Landing, both maritime and airborne, is a very complicated matter and involves great risks and losses both among paratroopers and in the delivery vehicles. So do not bring the hell up to what your lands would be seized, so that then with the help of counter-landing measures to recapture it again, I think so.
                so we have a lot of unprotected places where you can land at least for defense (and not only)

                landing for defense is not necessary to land on a vessel for such a price, such as UDC, it can even be transported on dry cargo vessels, even on old DBKs, even on ferries, since the DBs have not yet begun. And when they started, then ...
                For example, the Kuril Islands.

                Uh-huh! "Marconi 41" did not look at the map at all, since it writes about the possibility of an amphibious assault on 4 known islands under the nose of Japan, against which this counter-assault is intended! It's not in the internet to dream, to fight, to sit, the UDC of the "Mistral" type will not even have time to pass the La Perouse Strait, as everything will end for him, damn naval commanders. :))
                Even if the ocean goes from the north, from the side of Kamchatka, all the same, his shants are not great mission to successfully complete!
                1. zardoz
                  zardoz 26 June 2013 01: 19 New
                  0
                  Quote: old man54
                  it is not necessary to land on your own coast when it is already captured, but rather to create defensive lines in such directions and in such areas, especially since the danger has been looming for many years (I'm talking about the Kuril Islands). Landing, both maritime and airborne, is a very complicated matter and involves great risks and losses both among paratroopers and in the delivery vehicles. So do not bring the hell up to what your lands would be seized, so that then with the help of counter-landing measures to recapture it again, I think so.

                  Well, then brought to the capture and what to do?

                  Quote: old man54
                  landing for defense is not necessary to land on a vessel for such a price, such as UDC, it can even be transported on dry cargo vessels, even on old DBKs, even on ferries, since the DBs have not yet begun. And when they started, then ...

                  As I understand it, not only attack helicopters can be deployed on helicopter carriers ... And for landing operations for certain tasks it is not necessary at all to come close to the coast ....
                  Quote: old man54
                  writes about the possibility of a sea landing on 4 famous islands under the nose of Japan


                  Well, actually this expression and vice versa can be formulated about Under the Nose of Russia. Everything will depend on the situation. And without convenient tools, tasks are difficult to solve.

                  Well, another question: why the Japanese self-defense forces helicopter carriers?
                  1. Basarev
                    Basarev 8 February 2014 13: 33 New
                    0
                    In general, in a good way, a helicopter carrier should not be a landing barge. If you think about it, a helicopter carrier is an aircraft carrier of helicopters. So, the helicopter carrier and tasks should be purely combat - did anyone see Nimitz landing? Just the same, the helicopter carrier should engage in purely strike functions and nothing more, since landing is unusual for an aircraft carrier in principle.
    2. alexkross83
      alexkross83 24 June 2013 13: 09 New
      -3
      And minus those who are willing to pay taxes for the conversion of two troughs with our power plants, electronic stuffing and weapons ... in the end we get a steel skeleton purchased at the price of BDK. Thieves have simple arithmetic.
  4. Xmypp
    Xmypp 24 June 2013 08: 55 New
    0
    Yes, let them build it in France, but at our shipyard the vessels necessary for the fleet.
    1. sergey72
      sergey72 24 June 2013 10: 22 New
      12
      We are building, to put it mildly, not fast. A similar "comfortable" boat off the coast of Syria is needed yesterday.
  5. Strashila
    Strashila 24 June 2013 09: 03 New
    0
    There was no care, I bought women piglets.
    1. Strashila
      Strashila 24 June 2013 12: 16 New
      0
      that’s the hidden bureaucrat of the MoD on the picture ... minus ... so I'm right
      1. alexkross83
        alexkross83 24 June 2013 12: 54 New
        0
        Nothing ... we will add ... because we are right ... really.
  6. sanych
    sanych 24 June 2013 09: 16 New
    +1
    And why did pr. 11711 "Ivan Gren" not please, that "minus" was slapped ?! I will briefly try to explain why our project is preferable for our fleet. "Mistral" is a typical helicopter carrier, if the marines can still be landed with the help of helicopters, then in order to unload the equipment it must moor to a "civilian" pier. And "Ivan Gren" makes the landing of troops and equipment using bow ramps on the UNEQUIPPED coast !!! This is the advantage of our BDK and the marines! From the ship - straight into battle! As a command ship and a helicopter carrier - "Mistral" is out of competition, for landing amphibious assault forces on a "wild" beach - definitely "Ivan Gren"! Moreover, in terms of landing capabilities, he is not much inferior to the "Frenchman".

    Vicky data: project 11711 "Military equipment is placed on the large landing craft on the tank deck. It can be both main battle tanks weighing up to 60 tons (up to 13 units), and armored personnel carriers or infantry fighting vehicles (up to 36 vehicles), or up to 300 paratroopers . "
    1. Gecko
      Gecko 24 June 2013 09: 28 New
      +6
      BDK 11711 "Ivan Gren" and UDC "Mistral" are ships of completely different levels and for different tasks, so both are needed, but Mistral is still more versatile and more flexible in use.
      1. MilaPhone
        MilaPhone 24 June 2013 09: 37 New
        +8
        Mistral is designed for over-the-air landing. With the help of these floating equipment, as well as floating armored vehicles.
        1. MilaPhone
          MilaPhone 24 June 2013 09: 46 New
          +3
          Gently swim up the track belay and land.
          1. True
            True 24 June 2013 09: 55 New
            -1
            This track for armored vehicles, so as not to get stuck in the sand. I'm not special and I know that.
            1. old man54
              old man54 24 June 2013 14: 43 New
              +3
              Quote: True
              This track for armored vehicles, so as not to get stuck in the sand. I'm not special and I know that.

              Well, if you are special, then what kind of broenteritekhnik is such that it gets stuck in the sand? !! :)) How will it fight if there is a shower for example? She will also have to line the track ?! :))
              1. Basarev
                Basarev 8 February 2014 13: 37 New
                0
                The armored equipment that is knitting in the sand is nonsense! Even the monstrously heavy Merkava and Abramsy will not get stuck.
            2. fedorovith
              fedorovith 24 June 2013 17: 53 New
              +1
              Good technique! For which you need to line the tracks.
          2. alexkross83
            alexkross83 24 June 2013 12: 50 New
            +4
            If you look closely, in the background you can see the solarium field and showers wassat
            1. MilaPhone
              MilaPhone 24 June 2013 14: 38 New
              +2
              Quote: alexkross83
              This track for armored vehicles, so as not to get stuck in the sand. I'm not special and I know that.

              I know. Forgot to put the word "path" in quotes.
          3. old man54
            old man54 24 June 2013 14: 41 New
            +1
            Quote: Milafon
            Gently swim up the track belay and land.

            ooh, ah! :)) Another forgotten bar with cocktails for tired and retarded marines forgot to collect on the beach, or maybe there is, but you can’t see it! :)) Oh yes!
  7. Dejavu
    Dejavu 24 June 2013 09: 19 New
    +2
    I am solely FOR our technology and I see no reason to sponsor gay producers. On the other hand, apparently they can’t cancel the contract, Tubaretkin must have tried, no other way. Apparently, the ships were at a stage that you could not give backward.
    And if so, then we need to send them warmer to the seas, and since they are helicopter carriers, we will load them with our KA-52 and send them to bring Russian democracy to the Syrian shores. There our KA-shcheki useful.
  8. My address
    My address 24 June 2013 09: 55 New
    -1
    Sympathize with GDP. You can not cancel the notions of dames. It is impossible, even if you want. I am only for the award spotted by the Order of Andr. He would have done a lot with the first-called one, but international agreements cannot be canceled. Far not a supporter of GDP, but I understand.

    And LADY is good! Well, good! And do not guess leave!
    1. old man54
      old man54 24 June 2013 14: 46 New
      0
      Quote: My address
      I only reward the spotted order of André. The first-called person would do much with DAM, but it is impossible to cancel international agreements.

      and who is this spotted?
      1. S-200
        S-200 24 June 2013 15: 36 New
        +2
        he is "marked" ...
        he is "hunchbacked" ...
        he is Raikin ....- husband
        lol
  9. Constantine
    Constantine 24 June 2013 10: 02 New
    0
    I would not rule out the version when not so much the statements of the same Rogozin are doubtful, for example, how the interpretation of his words. The same newspaper.ru, is rather specific in its statements and I suspect that I will not miss the chance to throw poop on the fan whenever possible.
  10. runway
    runway 24 June 2013 11: 01 New
    +3
    Another "strong-willed" decision by our leaders led to a huge number of problems during the construction phase of these ships. But this is only the tip of the iceberg of the problems that will have to be solved when the ships are operated. Accordingly, to solve these problems, considerable money will be needed from the state budget .... At whose expense will the problem be solved? I believe, not at the expense of the persons who made the decision to purchase four, then two (from despair, after signing the agreements) ships by our fleet. It would be cheaper to pay the penalty before the start of construction, subtracting it from the salary of our leaders ....
  11. KG_patriot_last
    KG_patriot_last 24 June 2013 11: 37 New
    +3
    Any watercraft are needed ... I don’t understand the statements that we’re not going to land anywhere and take the shore ... And if you take the islands of the Russian Federation, you will have to land on your own shore ... Well, you will either need to land in Cyprus or Syria or where else. The Russian Federation, if it wants to be a geopolitical player, must have a strong fleet, and landing ships are part of the fleet ... But aircraft carriers are needed ... Since Ukraine and Crimea are no longer under direct jurisdiction, you need to have autonomous ships there. Food, ammunition, replenishment / change will be delivered directly by air ...
    Chet dreamed)))
    1. Basarev
      Basarev 8 February 2014 13: 40 New
      0
      It would also be nice to build a huge combat raft - a floating naval base with low draft.
  12. Russ69
    Russ69 24 June 2013 11: 49 New
    0
    Quote: Rustam
    2-Rogozin to whom the USC clowns provided fictional myths about poor ice resistance or lubrication

    It seems that at the conclusion of the contract they said that the design will be amended, just for work in the Northern latitudes.
  13. Alexxeg73
    Alexxeg73 24 June 2013 12: 23 New
    +3
    He also has no double side ... Ohohonyushki ...
  14. alexkross83
    alexkross83 24 June 2013 13: 01 New
    0
    Serdyukovo-Medvedevskaya belch ... are intended for transferring "OOO Slavyanka" to places where thieves have never set foot and for solving strategic problems of plundering there.
  15. old man54
    old man54 24 June 2013 14: 59 New
    +2
    I put a "+" on the article, so as not to offend the author, although the news is so-so, and this soap opera called "give the UDC" Mistal "for Russia!" It's time to stop messing with it already!
    Perhaps the most high-profile news of the last week was the statement by Russian Deputy Minister of Defense Yu. Borisov. An official from the Ministry of Defense announced the disruption of part of the project. According to him, the stern of the first Mistral’s hull for Russia will be built not in Russian enterprises, but in France.

    Statements by officials of this rank (especially from the Moscow Region) and at such a level of irresponsibility and frivolity make us once again think about whether they are adequate there today and whether generals like Borisov correspond to their position ?! If there are problems, then fleeing immediately to Lebourg and rubbing his tongue in front of the press, to put it mildly, does not paint the deputy minister of defense!
    It is difficult to say why the "sensational" news appeared in which the shipyard Severnaya Verf was mentioned. Probably, the deputy defense minister simply made a slip of the tongue.

    Just a couple of days after the emergence of information about the failure of contractual obligations - June 20 - Deputy Prime Minister D. Rogozin arrived at the Baltic Shipyard. He personally inspected the constructed structures and dispelled all fears. According to him, the ship will be completed on time, and the production process is controlled by both the Russian and French sides.

    All this absurdity around the "Mistrals" once again personally proves that the ruling elite in Russia (thieves and traitors) is split into 2 camps today. Deputy Minister Borisov is probably a man appointed by "Taburetkin", which means he is from the "camp" of the swamp area, Chubais and an iPhone (a former prezik). So he shits and builds podtlyanki as best he can, those people give him such an installation. Minister of the Ministry of Defense Shoigu is a man of GDP. Bickering between these 2 packs is the reason for such stupid troubles in the press today! Alas! :)))
  16. sergey72
    sergey72 24 June 2013 15: 46 New
    +7
    In the case of the construction of the Mistral, one must first of all think about the marines. They spend months walking along foreign shores, while no one has canceled their combat missions. "Mistral" is comfort and mobility, especially for the air group. There is no double side? So he is not TAKR - he does not go into the attack. When will we start thinking about people? I am a land-based, excuse me for not saying so BUT - "Ivan Gren" is another "cattle carrier" without a definite concept, without understanding for what range of tasks it is needed. He actually personifies the USC suitcase without a handle, which also goes a lot. I don't like francs, but in this case they are at their best, but here, sorry, "Ivan Gren".
    1. Aleksys2
      Aleksys2 24 June 2013 17: 55 New
      0
      Quote: sergey72
      "Mistral" is comfort ... When will we start thinking about people?


      So this ..., on these ships even more comfort, and taking care of people in person. Maybe it was better to order them? repeat
      1. sergey72
        sergey72 24 June 2013 18: 27 New
        +3
        Do not distort! The concept of "comfort" for a battleship also includes the "convenience" of combat operations. For example, timely and quick evacuation of the wounded, air support for the landing force (in the case of the Mistral, this can be done simultaneously). The durability of action is also of no small importance. air groups. What can Ivan Gren offer in this segment?
        1. old man54
          old man54 24 June 2013 19: 29 New
          +2
          Quote: sergey72
          Do not distort! The concept of "comfort" for a battleship also includes the "convenience" of combat operations. For example, timely and quick evacuation of the wounded, air support for the landing force (in the case of the Mistral, this can be done simultaneously). The durability of action is also of no small importance. air groups. What can Ivan Gren offer in this segment?

          And no one is distorting, but just a little fun, through tears, probably! You know, my dear, probably it is necessary to carry soldiers to the BMP and armored personnel carriers on the battlefield, it’s very uncomfortable for them, I myself have been, I know! It is also necessary in France to order tourist buses with cross-country ability (all-wheel drive), with air conditioning and dry closets, and more! How much can a soldier be bullied, right? And on the battlefield itself, so that they do not get stuck in the ground twisted by explosions of shells, we must also line a special path in front of them, as in the photo above! I understood your idea correctly, my dear? :)

          In essence: both the Ivan Gren and Ivan Rogov large landing craft can do everything that you wrote about, and even more (to drop equipment directly to the shore through the ramp), with the exception of using the SVPP, but Russia has its own there are none and is not expected in the near future! So ... you give yachts like Abramovich's instead of BOD or EM! :)))
          1. sergey72
            sergey72 24 June 2013 20: 07 New
            +1
            Essentially you answered
            Quote: old man54
            "? [/ quote
            And no one is distorting, but just a little fun, through tears, probably! You know, my dear, probably it is necessary to carry soldiers to the BMP and armored personnel carriers on the battlefield, it’s very uncomfortable for them, I myself have been, I know! It is also necessary in France to order tourist buses with cross-country ability (all-wheel drive), with air conditioning and dry closets, and more! How much can a soldier be bullied, right? And on the battlefield itself, so that they do not get stuck in the ground twisted by explosions of shells, we must also line a special path in front of them, as in the photo above! I understood your idea correctly, my dear? :)

            In essence: both the Ivan Gren and Ivan Rogov large landing craft can do everything that you wrote about, and even more (to drop equipment directly to the shore through the ramp), with the exception of using the SVPP, but Russia has its own there are none and is not expected in the near future! So ... you give yachts like Abramovich's instead of BOD or EM! :)))
            While Gren will approach the shore, drushlags will be made of him.
            1. old man54
              old man54 24 June 2013 22: 48 New
              +1
              Quote: sergey72
              Essentially you answered.
              While Gren will approach the shore, drushlags will be made of him.

              And what about the "Ivan Gren" tank or something, heavy, so that you can climb right through to the "Mozheno line" built on the unfriendly coast at the landing point ?! The place of the intended landing should be first handled by aviation, everything should be suppressed, including the coastal art batteries and the BKR, the reconnaissance company of the MP + engineer-engineer platoon is immediately dropped by helicopters, the coast is checked for anti-amphibious mining, the depth and topography of the landing site are determined, it is established navigation sections, i.e. indicators of the landing site for the large landing craft. Reconnaissance occupies the nearest commanding heights, observes the approaches from the depths of the territory to the landing site, and interferes with attempts to counter enemy actions. Immediately before the main landing, the coast is once again processed by the artillery of the fleet (if necessary), EM 956 of the project, for example, then the approach, and after 10/15 minutes. maximum all heavy equipment + main forces of the MP through the ramp is already on the shore! All at once !!! This is our, Soviet / Russian tactics capture coast MP!
              And from your UDC, a "drushlag" can also be made at a distance of 50 km from the landing point, even beyond the horizon, there are enough funds for this today! I will not describe, you yourself understand everything perfectly. If not ... then I won't help either!
      2. old man54
        old man54 24 June 2013 19: 19 New
        +1
        Quote: Aleksys2
        So this ..., on these ships even more comfort, and taking care of people in person. Maybe it was better to order them? repeat

        Yeah, there are whores for the MP to "assign" there, and the committee of soldiers' (marine) mothers is where to arrange and spoilage! :))) Something people from this liberasty are completely distracted!
        1. sergey72
          sergey72 24 June 2013 19: 56 New
          +1
          Just don't be mischievous. You should be put on the "Rogov", but from the Pacific Fleet on duty in the Red Sea for two months. By the way, how many "Rogovs" are you our connoisseur, eh? You saw him yourself? And the last question: Who is landing from the ramps now?
    2. Basarev
      Basarev 8 February 2014 13: 44 New
      0
      But Mao Zedong said: “Revolution is not a dinner party.” Yulian Semyonov echoed him, writing in Major Vortex: “War is not a game of serso!” So ​​one should realize that a military campaign and a cruise are not synonymous!
  17. xomaNN
    xomaNN 24 June 2013 16: 48 New
    +1
    Well, at least from Sev. the shipyard neponyatka resolved :)) Rumble from side to side, when a lot of money has already been spent, raised subcontractors are unlikely to look smart. And after 3-4 years, the practice, it’s a harsh naval life, will show who won the most from this deal.
  18. chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 24 June 2013 18: 03 New
    +2
    "It is noteworthy that both Yuri Borisov and D. Rogozin, commenting on the construction of the new Mistrals, unanimously spoke about the need for such a division of the series."
    If officials unanimously speak out for any reason, the decision is made above.
    Quote: sergey72
    In the case of the construction of the Mistral, one must think first of all about the marines.
    It will be interesting to read user reviews, and the crew and the seconded. Surely there will be a lot of new and useful.
  19. sub307
    sub307 24 June 2013 18: 30 New
    0
    "Based on the results of the first years of their operation, a decision will be made on the need to purchase two more ships."
    Seems like a logical decision. And then: "the state rearmament program has already included the expenses for the purchase of all four ships." Where is the logic? It is obvious that "some" officials do not think for long before broadcasting anything on the "air", if they even "turn on their head".
  20. True
    True 24 June 2013 20: 43 New
    0
    The fact is that our ships and planes were always built only in order to carry out a combat mission, forgetting about the basic convenience of people. But wars are rare, and in peacetime people have to serve on this slap. And in war, too, convenience is never superfluous.
  21. True
    True 24 June 2013 20: 46 New
    +1
    Well, one more picture on the topic. Landing helicopter carrier "Osumi" (Japan) 3 pcs. in the presence
    1. sergey72
      sergey72 24 June 2013 20: 55 New
      0
      The ideal concept! KVP, helicopters, and when "richer" and VTOL.
  22. Sobol
    Sobol 24 June 2013 21: 05 New
    +1
    It seems to be written that in the mistral, our helicopters do not intermeddle. Or intermeddle already?
  23. sergey72
    sergey72 24 June 2013 21: 13 New
    0
    For the Old Man 54. Here on the site a few months ago there was a publication about our marines on Dahlak. Read and think, would they refuse the air conditioner? At the same time, laugh if you have so much fun ... And remember that endlessly riding on heroism and stamina is simply not fair. I go to sleep, tomorrow is a hard day. hi
  24. sanych your division
    sanych your division 24 June 2013 22: 22 New
    +2
    the whole story resembles a joke on the topic of how the collective farm decided what to do with the money earned. offered a lot of things. eventually decided to buy an airship. to the question on ..rena? the blacksmith answered: let him fly ...
  25. rudolff
    rudolff 25 June 2013 01: 53 New
    +4
    Remark about Ivan Gren. This project is not talking about any quick unloading from ramps of landing equipment. When approaching the shore, unloading is carried out on a previously built pontoon bridge. At the mooring wall, part of the cargo handling operations can be carried out using their own cranes. This is an extremely unsuccessful project and is of little use for the role of BDK. That is why no one still knows what to do next with him and for what tasks to complete. The most realistic option is the transport of weapons.
    1. old man54
      old man54 25 June 2013 12: 26 New
      0
      Quote: rudolff
      Remark about Ivan Gren.

      Thanks for the clarification, I was not in the know. For some reason, I thought that he, "Iavn Gren", was a further development of the still Soviet concept of the BDK. Then, in this vasezi, it is even more unclear why they decided to cut the still remaining and far from exhausted their resource large landing craft "Ivan Rogov" ?? On the same "Mistarl" heavy equipment in full volume (tanks) until they are unloaded onto the coast with the help of landing boats through the dock chamber, it will take at least 12 hours. :( If this is a lightning-fast seizure of the coast and the creation of a bridgehead on it for the rear unloading of troops and further development of the offensive, then I am a "Spanish pilot"!
      1. Basarev
        Basarev 8 February 2014 13: 58 New
        0
        They say that there were landing ships of the "Rhino" type - so they simply stuck the gangway onto any unequipped shore and landed equipment.
  26. Marconi41
    Marconi41 25 June 2013 02: 08 New
    +1
    We need Mistral ... we don't need Mistral ... We will definitely have them! All the DOT!
  27. SOZIN2013
    SOZIN2013 25 June 2013 20: 37 New
    +1
    It would be better if our ship built project 1609. And there were new jobs and workload of enterprises. And in general, his own - it is dearer !!!
    project information http://alternathistory.org.ua/eshche-odna-alternativa-mistralyu-desantnyi-korabl
    i-doki-proekta-1609-sssr