Military Review

We fought in Syria. There were not only advisers

87
About the author. From 1980 to 1984, Colonel General Grigory Pavlovich Yashkin was the chief military adviser to the Syrian armed forces - an adviser to the Minister of Defense of the SAR. This post was appointed from the post of Deputy Commander-in-Chief of the GSVG. Member of the Great Patriotic War. He started the war as a lieutenant, commander of a machine-gun platoon in the west, and ended as commander of an infantry battalion in Koenigsberg. After the war, commanded a mechanized regiment, separate tank brigade, division, army corps, combined arms army, without passing a single intermediate replacement position. In 1978, he was appointed to the GSVG. He was awarded the Order of Lenin, other orders and medals of the USSR and friendly countries.
Voenizdat is preparing to print his book Events and Fate.



We fought in Syria. There were not only advisersThe situation in the Arab world after the October 1973 of the Arab-Israeli war was complex and controversial. The US and Israel, instead of a just peace in the Middle East, began to conduct separate deals, directly opposing them to a general settlement of the Arab-Israeli conflict. Such a policy reached its apogee by the Camp David Separate Agreement between Egypt and Israel, prepared by the USA in 1978.

After the signing of the “treaty” a new aggravation of the situation in the region occurred. The Middle East settlement was thrown back. Israel, on the other hand, significantly tightened its position and expanded the scale of its expansion.

In 1980, the Arab world was dealt a second blow - the war between Iran and Iraq began. The conflict has aggravated relations between Syria, Jordan and Iraq. Not without the influence of Israel on the territory of Syria, the bloody massacre of the "Muslim Brothers" was launched, drawing the regular army of Syria into bitter fights. The situation in Lebanon and the intra Syrian contradictions on the Lebanese question have become extremely aggravated.

The service of the Syrians in Lebanon was not easy and took place in a difficult, often conflicting situation, especially between the right-Christian forces (Lebanese forces) hostile to the Syrians and frequent clashes with Israelis, primarily in the sky.

The air battles between the Israeli F-15 aircraft and the Syrian MiG-21 took place almost daily, with heavy losses for the Syrians. And this is not surprising, the MiG-21 obsolete modifications were inferior in tactical and technical terms to the more modern F-15s. The situation was further aggravated by the fact that in Lebanon there was no real radar field enabling Syrian aviation detect aerial targets. The same can be said about the electronic equipment of the MiG-21 aircraft. Hence the low noise immunity. There was no need to talk about such an important technical and tactical factor as the hidden control of aircraft.

The same situation was in the ZRV. Anti-aircraft missile systems of all systems were poorly protected from interference and vulnerable. In addition, the Israelis knew all the frequencies of the Syrian complexes and easily carried out the opposition. It was not in the Syrian air defense forces and air force and modern automated controls (ACS). These are the reasons for the great losses suffered by the Syrian army on two fronts - in Lebanon and on its territory.

In this difficult situation, Syria turned to the USSR for help. October 9 1980. the whole world learned about the negotiations in Moscow, about the signing of the treaty on friendship and cooperation between the USSR and Syria. Under this treaty, both the construction of the Syrian armed forces and the principles of manning them with military advisers were envisaged.

October 10 1980 in Moscow, after the issue of my appointment as Chief Military Advisor, Chief of the General Staff of the USSR Supreme Soviet Marshal Sov. Union N.V.Ogarkov set before me a specific task - to create in the Syrian armed forces an organized, knowledgeable, efficient, disciplined team of military advisers. On this basis, in the shortest possible time to deploy a modern orgshtatny structure taking into account the combat capabilities of our military equipment arriving in Syria, to develop new forms and methods of conducting combat operations with a specific enemy.

October 15 1980 G. in 10 hours of the morning Moscow time. a civilian aircraft of the USSR rose from the Sheremetyevo airfield of time and headed for Damascus. On this plane, having changed into civilian clothes, I flew. The high speed of the aircraft was doing its job: under the wing, dear to Odessa’s heart, where the wife and children were left, the Black Sea soon disappeared, and the mountains of Bulgaria, then Turkey, appeared in the distance. Sitting in a noisy cabin, I recalled a conversation with USSR Minister of Defense Ustinov, asked me a question: “Tell me, general, honestly, did we make the right choice on your side? ..” It was not easy to answer, and N.V. Ogarkov helped, he helped, he warned me: “Dm. Fedor.! The choice is correct, there is no mistake ... ”The thought did not give rest: what did the minister doubt? In what? Why?

At 15.00 local time, the plane landed at Damascus airfield.

From the same day I took up my duties. The first thing I had to face was the unpreparedness of the Syrian armed forces, especially the air force and air defense units, to repel a possible Israeli attack. And it could begin any day, at any time.
Soon other comrades began to arrive from the USSR. Senior Advisor on Air Defense - Lieutenant-General of Artillery KS Babenko, former Deputy Commander of the Baku Air Defense District, participant in the Great Patriotic War and the Vietnam War; for the Air Force - Gen. -Lt. Aviation V.Sokolov, for EW - Gen.-Major - Engineer Yu.Ulchenko. Following them are advisers to the anti-aircraft brigade colonels V.V. Roslyakov, A.Yu.Pukhtinsky, I.N.Kovalev, lieutenant colonels N.V.Nesterenko, N.I. Makarov, and other comrades. Colonels I.P. Lavrentyev, A.S.Russkikh, E.I.Ionesyan, T.A.Dubasov, V.N. Verbot, Yu.M.Ilichev and others arrived at the Central Directorate of Air Defense and Air Force. All specialists of the Surn, Unk and Unz air defense missile systems were staffed with specialists.

The multi-hundred staff of advisers and specialists quickly got involved in the work. And there was a lot of work ahead: to deploy mixed anti-aircraft missile brigades and two air defense divisions, two mixed aviation divisions, to complete all of this with equipment, weapons, and control devices; to build combined command posts of air defense and air force divisions. As they arrive from the USSR, deploy automated controls. On the basis of the existing and incoming equipment, create a material and technical base, help the Syrian comrades to study and master all this in order to be able to apply in a combat situation. Taking into account the specific situation, it was necessary to develop and propose to the Syrian side a new one, corresponding to our system of planning and organizing operational and combat training, to develop and introduce new methods and methods of troop training.
The solution of these far from simple tasks took place under conditions of unbridled rampant of terrorists - opponents of the progressive Assad regime. The loss began to bear and the Soviet people. In the city of Hama, 4 of our officer was shot while traveling to the airfield. After some time in Damascus, the headquarters of the Air Force and Air Defense was undermined, about a hundred Syrians were killed, many were injured, including 6 of our advisers, in particular, Advisor to the Chief of Staff of the Air Force and Air Defense Gen.-Major Glagolev.

Since April, 1981, the Israeli aviation seemingly by mistake instead of the Palestinian camps in Lebanon began to strike at Syrian troops. There was a question about their cover. In the second half of April, 1981. the territory of Lebanon was introduced and covertly dispersed: an anti-aircraft missile brigade of mixed composition, two anti-aircraft artillery regiments, two radio engineering battalions and two EW battalions. The result was felt very soon: 4 Israeli aircraft were shot down (three F-16 and one F-15). And the raids on the troops stopped. But other “raids” began - ultimatums. 30 April America demanded that Syria withdraw from Lebanon SAM. Syria rejected these claims, while also declaring that it will defend Lebanon as well as its territory. In response to the ultimatum of the United States, the USSR also made a statement: it will continue to support Syria’s positions on resolving the Lebanese crisis.

May 5 was handed to me that together with President Assad, who will arrive there with a working visit after May 10, I should arrive in Moscow. Before departure, 7 or 8 in May, together with the SAR Defense Minister corpus General M. Plass, we went to Lebanon in the area of ​​firing positions of the air defense missile system: the minister was interested in the preparedness of combat crews. Everything turned out as ordered. Do not have time to get out of the car, as a group of Israeli aircraft. They tried to reach the goal. Two missile launches - two aircraft shot down, the rest turned back. The minister was delighted. He asked what I would advise to further improve the combat capability of the air defense system. I said that it was necessary to maneuver the divisions more often, change positions more often. To facilitate the task, each division must have 3-5 spare positions with exit routes ...

I was not able to leave for Moscow, the situation did not allow me. 10 in May, the United States and Israel provoked Lebanese "phalangists" who, with the support of Israeli aviation, attempted to capture the mountainous areas of Baruk and Sanin, where the air defense system was located. However, the attempt failed: the attacks were repulsed. At the same time, during the day of the 3 battles, the missilemen shot down another 3 aircraft - two F-15 and one F-4.

After H. Asad’s return from Moscow, I was informed that in the near future 50 MiG-23MLD aircraft would arrive in Syria.

What we did in Syria did not go unnoticed by the enemies of the Assad regime. By the fall of 1981. they began to openly hunt us. Twice they fired at my car, and on October 4 attempted to guard the building where the headquarters of the main military adviser was located, the families of other advisers lived. At the same time, our sentry was seriously injured. October 5 enemy managed to blow up this building. 6 people were killed and about 20 (m. 200?) Were injured, of which 23 - hard. I was contused.

We believed that active hostilities, and in fact the second war to crush the Palestinian camps and expel the Syrians from Lebanon, would begin after a rainy season - in late May-early June 1982. The prediction came true, the fights began on June 14.00. Taking into account the specifics of the magazine "Air Defense Bulletin", I will not describe in detail the course of the combat operations of the ground forces, I will say only the most important thing. On the fourth day of the fighting, the initiative in the land battle passed into the hands of the Syrians, the advance of the Israelis was halted. The Syrians began to prepare for the counterattack. To cover the counter-attack group on the night of 6 on 9 June, the 10-I mixed anti-aircraft missile brigade and three anti-aircraft artillery regiments were introduced into Lebanon.

The United States, apparently realizing that, in the person of Israel, they could lose their mace in the area, they began urgently to take the necessary measures. On the morning of June 10, F. Habib, personal envoy of R. Reagan, arrived in Damascus, followed by US Secretary of State Schultz in the afternoon of Damascus. But the pressure on the Syrians was not crowned with success. The Syrian President rejected all ultimatums and ordered the Minister of Defense on 7.30 11 to put an already prepared counterstrike.

After Damascus, American emissaries appeared in Tel Aviv, and on June 10 on Israel, 16.30 threw in its "trump card" - launched an air strike to eliminate the Syrian missile "Zonta" in the Bekaa Valley. This operation was carried out not so much to destroy the Syrian air defense system, as to prove its superiority in the air, to instill fear in the Syrians, to convince them that the "roof" over the troops and over the territory of Syria is not reliable.

It must be admitted that with this operation the Israelis have achieved a great deal, and above all in the moral and psychological terms. They inspired an anti-regime reaction inside Syria and shook healthy forces and even H. Assad himself and his entourage. By the end of June 10, Shults and Habib returned from Tel Aviv to Damascus, and after lengthy negotiations and promises, Assad made concessions. The parties agreed, on 12.00 11 June, the fighting between Israel and Syria on Lebanese territory was stopped.

I consider it necessary to consider in more detail the Israeli military actions, tactics and equipment of their aircraft on that victorious day for them 10 June 1982. Do not admire, namely, to consider, and with pain in the soul. It would be possible to admire when Syrian suddenly turned out to be on the site of Israeli aviation. But this "suddenly" could not be, because our help - I mean weaponTechnique was extremely weak and untimely. Delay, delay - our eternal disease.

The Israelis were able to carry out the suppression of the air defense missile system only in a narrow sector - in the area of ​​responsibility of the 82 mixed air defense missile brigade, and as a result of jamming, they also hit nine air defense divisions concentrated in the mountainous areas of Kasyun and Baruk in Syria.
The operation to suppress the air defense system in Lebanon (Bekaa Valley) was developed as follows.

The first. An electronic strike team was created. This group included unmanned aircraft - reconnaissance aircraft of the Scout (Israel) and Firebird (US) type. Flying on above the SAM-6 SAMs, they conducted a direct television broadcast of the image to the command post. Obtaining such visual information, the Israeli command made unmistakable decisions to launch missile strikes. In addition, the same unmanned aircraft put interference. They spotted the operating frequency of the radar and guidance equipment Syrian missile systems. Moreover, playing the role of "bait", causing the Syrian air defense missile system to fire on itself, reconnaissance aircraft diverted it from combat aircraft.

To the radar support team and the Hokai early warning aircraft. Their functions: serif and control of the activity of the Syrian aircraft. The EW Boeing 707 aircraft and 53-type helicopters were continuously flying over the northern regions of Palestine and interacting with EW ground installations, listening to the Syrian air and air defense radio networks and jamming them with interferences. Bearing in operation, the Syrian radar, they refined their coordinates and transmitted to the operational (command) point, which contributed to the delivery of accurate strikes.

The second. Three strike groups were created.

The first group is ground-to-ground missile launchers of the Standard Arm type. These installations operated from the tops of the mountain region of Harmon, which dominated the positions of the Syrian air defense forces.

In addition to ground-based rocket launchers, long-range artillery and rocket artillery units participated in the destruction of the air defense missile system, using ball and cluster munitions that were able to be aimed at the target (especially at the final stage) using an infrared and laser beam.

The second strike group included Phantom fighter-bombers equipped with Standard Arm, Shrayk, Maverick missiles. "Phantoms" destroyed the remaining radar and launchers, and from ranges exceeding the range of the Syrian anti-aircraft medium-range missiles (from the 60-80km line).

These were planes designed to suppress the air defense system. Special engines were installed on them, which did not leave behind a trace of condensate, which made it difficult to visually detect the aircraft. They were equipped with an EW system codenamed “FR-38”. This system accepts the frequencies of the enemy’s radar and automatically interferes with them. 52 antennas installed throughout the aircraft’s fuselage provide stable reception of radar signals. Were on the aircraft and other innovations.

The third strike group consisted of the Kfir and F-15 fighters, which completed the destruction of the remaining launchers with conventional bomb strikes.

During that 10 operation in June, a major air battle took place in the sky of Lebanon. On both sides participated in it about 350 aircraft. In this battle, Syria lost 22 aircraft (4 MiG-23МФ, 8 MiG-23MS, 10 MiG-21bis). Israelis have lost 10 aircraft. In general, from 6 to 11 June, the Syrian air force shot down 23 in air battles and lost 47 aircraft. Anti-aircraft missile brigades in the skies over Lebanon and partially over Syria destroyed 35 air targets, of which 27 aircraft.

Thus, during the week of the war, the Syrians shot down 58 air targets using SAM and air force forces. Of these: -50 aircraft, unmanned vehicles - 8. The Syrians themselves lost 47 planes shot down in aerial combat, and 20 lost the enemy’s anti-aircraft missiles.

In these battles, the Central command post of the Air Force and Air Defense under the leadership of divisional generals Omar Sunuf, Ali Malyahafadzhi, Ali Saleh worked intensively and harmoniously. The management of radio engineering units and parts of the EW generals Samir Ataya, Salah Edwin Ashram skillfully carried out. But due to poor technical equipment, these units could not fully ensure the tasks assigned to them. They made the impossible possible.

The Soviet Air Force and Air Defense Center, as well as at other command and control centers, in the combat formations of the Syrian troops and in firing positions in Lebanon, along with the Syrians, our Soviet people worked tirelessly and selflessly. With airmen - officers under the leadership of generals V. Sokolov and N. Glagolev. In the case of tablet players, consoles, and control systems of the air defense missile system, advisers are led by General K. Babenko.

In general, the training of Syrian generals and officers was not bad, but at this stage they needed specific help. The fact is that our controls began to arrive in Syria only six weeks before the start of the war, and the ACS simply did not have time to master the control systems. And not only ACS. Assistance was also required at the combined, not yet fully deployed, divisional, brigade points of the air defense and air force. And the Syrian command noted with great gratitude the work of Colonels V.Roslyakov, N.Makarova, I.Kovalev, A.Russkikh, E.Ionesyan and others. All of them were awarded the Syrian and Soviet orders.

Special thanks were earned, of course, by those who were under fire — on the positions of the air defense system divisions, at the Surn, Unk, and Unz stations. They showed models of skill and courage, their example helped the Syrians to withstand and perform all combat missions. These are Major V.Zenin, Senior Lieutenants A.Sergeev, N.Burchakov, A.Danilchuk, N.Davydov, Lieutenant Colonels Y.Ushanov, J.Lysenkov, V.Paschenko, Major S.Ilchenko, Senior Lieutenants S.Pyankov, V. Borisov and others. Many of them are marked by state awards.

Admittedly, the Israelis were able to capture and maintain superiority in the air and over the battlefield. Many factors contributed to this, but I will mention only a few, from my point of view, the main ones: a good airborne detection system that relied on the Hokai early warning aircraft and ground radars installed on commanding heights in the combat area; the presence of an electronic warfare system, which makes it possible to eavesdrop on the Syrian air force's radio networks: intercepting orders coming from the ground to the Syrian aircraft, the Israelis hammered their radio networks and radars with interferences. The “stunned” and “blinded” Syrian pilots came under sudden strikes by the Israeli; the presence of air-to-air missiles such as Sidewind, Piton-3 (Israel), capable of hitting targets from long ranges and from various angles.

The reader may ask, why we, the Soviet experts, did not help the Syrians to achieve opposition, equal to that which the Israelis have achieved? My answer: we could not do it. All receivers of Syrian complexes were suppressed by very high-density interference over the entire frequency range. And in order to fight them, it was necessary to weaken their power no less than 20-30 times. Unfortunately, the Syrians did not have such opportunities. We did not have them either. At that time, electronic intelligence and jamming systems of the SAR Armed Forces could not provide a violation of enemy command and control or even minimal protection of their aircraft, air defense missile systems and their other air defense forces and equipment for only one reason - the limited frequency range of suppression.

In this war, the Israelis have created a well-functioning and equipped with electronic equipment EW system. EW facilities were installed even on tanks, ships, not to mention combat aircraft, and even more special, such as Boeing 707, C-97 Hockey, Phantom (AF-4ji).

The integrated and massive use of electronic warfare, missiles and guided bombs with optoelectronic and radar homing heads was a decisive condition for Israel’s success in suppressing the Syrian air defense force in Lebanon and conquering airborne air supremacy. Experience has shown that without a modern automated control system, sustained noise immunity of radar and communications equipment, the creation of the necessary radar field for aircraft, it is impossible to control modern aviation and air defense systems.

The “truce” reached on 11 on June 1982, did not last long. The Israelis used it to regroup their forces in Lebanon, the United States and their allies to concentrate their fleets off the coast of Lebanon. 18 July Israelis broke the truce. In the sky of Lebanon, fighting broke out again, on the ground - fierce tank battles. But success again did not accompany Israel. This is recognized even by former Secretary of Defense Sharon. In the journal Namakhane he wrote: “The fighting with the Syrians in the direction of the Damascus-Beirut road was stubborn and bloody. Unfortunately, this time we were not able to achieve the desired results. ”

Americans came to the aid of the Israelis. They landed marines on the Lebanese coast, and part of the forces entered the West Beirut. In the current situation, the USSR needed to do something more for Syria. At the end of October, 1982, Ambassador V. I. Yukhin and I, the chief military adviser, were called to Moscow. After our reports on the current situation, the Syrian leadership was invited to Moscow, and a new stage began in our joint activity.

In early January, 1983. a long-range anti-aircraft missile regiment arrived in Syria with Soviet military personnel under the command of Colonel Bas. He did not stay long, he was replaced by Colonel S. B. Pokrovsky. The regiment concentrated in the Dumeirah area (40 km west of Damascus) and immediately took up combat duty. Soon arrived and other military units: technical regiment, it is located in the Green Guta: EW helicopter squadron, EW units based on the ground; in early February, a long-range anti-aircraft regiment commanded by Colonel I.I. Teterev.

The regiment took positions in 5 km. East of g.Homsa. Profits new ACS; new military air defense systems "Osa-Oka" for the recruitment of mixed brigades in the combined-arms divisions; MiG-25 and MiG-23MLD aircraft with new airborne locators capable of tracking and launching 4-6 targets automatically; new missiles and bombs of volumetric explosion and high-power ammunition ...

The staff of advisers and specialists was increased, the post of deputy chief military adviser was introduced, and Major General M. Kolesov became the head. At my headquarters, starting from 1983, the operational control group from the naval squadron was located. In the Lebanon-Syria sector, it cooperated with the Syrian armed forces, especially with fighter aircraft and long-range air defense regiments.

The United States did not like it. And again, power methods and ultimatums: Syrian troops must leave Lebanon.

Ultimatum rejected.

In December, the naval blockade of the coast of Lebanon by the combined forces (USA, Britain, France, Italy) began. Shipboard artillery in conjunction with the bomber aircraft began to deliver massive strikes against the national-patriotic forces of Lebanon and the Syrian troops occupying defenses in the mountainous areas of Sanina, covering the Damascus-Beirut highway, as well as against the Syrian troops defending in the Bekaa valley.

The Syrians launched a series of retaliatory strikes against the US naval grouping. Began to act against carrier-based aircraft. For six days, the rocket men shot down nine American aircraft, incl. five A-6, three F-14, one F-4, in addition, four Israeli and two French decks "Super-fmb" (?). In the air battles on the MiG-23MLD, the Syrians shot down four Israeli aircraft (three F-15 and one F-4), without losing a single one.

Before the blockade, the Americans used the Firebie reconnaissance planes massively over Syrian troops in Lebanon, as well as over Soviet air defense systems in Syria. The direct-protection divisions - “Wasp” shot down: 202 zrp - five unmanned aircraft, and the 231 regiment - six. 202 SPR launching one missile shot down an Hokai early warning aircraft at a range of 190 km.

And the flights of the United States and Israel stopped.

The effectiveness of the actions of the Syrian air defense system at this stage was also discussed by the US press. In one of the sources it was written: "American artificial earth satellites and airplanes equipped with the most modern electronic equipment sent a huge amount of interference into the sky of Matna (Jabel province of Lebanon), but Syrian missiles were able to overcome them with great ease and hit all the targets." And: “Damascus is now ready for any surprise. The destruction of the American planes and the capture of the American pilot Robert Gutman, the strikes against the ship group, which forced the Americans and their allies to retreat to the shores of Cyprus, is not only a military, but also a political victory. X Assad could not have ordered retaliatory actions if he had not relied on a firm conviction of success. ”

US Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger threatened with the battleship New Jersey. However, the Syrian War Minister M. Tlas said: "Shot down American planes can sink and American ships" Any bans are no longer valid when it comes to the life and honor of the Motherland. " It became clear to everyone that Syria 1983 was no longer the Syria that was at the end of the 70s. She could reject any threats.
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  1. lars
    lars 21 June 2013 10: 04 New
    12
    Interesting article! Thanks! Especially the data on the losses of "unbreakable" Israeli aircraft.
    We are waiting for the Professor with refutations and criticism hi
  2. Kovrovsky
    Kovrovsky 21 June 2013 10: 10 New
    +8
    "Lateness, lateness is our eternal disease." I immediately remembered the events of August 2008. If a political decision had been made in a timely manner, it would have been fashionable to save how many lives!
    1. S-200
      22 June 2013 19: 38 New
      -2
      08.08.08 there was a feeling that they deliberately "substituted themselves" under the Georgian blow, so that then there was a reason to tear the shirt on the chest ...
  3. creak
    creak 21 June 2013 10: 16 New
    +4
    A similar pattern was observed in Egypt after the outbreak of war in 1969. Egyptian air defense equipped with the S-75 air defense system was not able to provide effective resistance to Israeli aviation and was suppressed for the same reasons as in Syria. After that, aviation almost daily delivered air strikes on the positions of Egyptian troops in the Suez Canal zone and on rear targets in the interior of the country. The situation changed only after the Soviet Air Defense Division was deployed there, which conducted successful military operations, which led to the conclusion of a truce between Egypt and Israel.
    1. Don
      Don 21 June 2013 13: 23 New
      +2
      Quote: ranger
      in Egypt after the outbreak of war in 1969, the Egyptian air defense equipped with the S-75 air defense system was unable to provide effective resistance to Israeli aviation and was suppressed

      Quote: ranger
      The situation changed only after the Soviet Air Defense Division was deployed there, which conducted successful military operations

      Once again I am convinced that the Arabs are bad students. Our advisers in Vietnam trained Vietnamese on the same S-75s, and they shot down US planes without any problems.
      1. Vovka levka
        Vovka levka 21 June 2013 16: 09 New
        +2
        Quote: Don

        Once again I am convinced that the Arabs are bad students. Our advisers in Vietnam trained Vietnamese on the same S-75s, and they shot down US planes without any problems.

        At one time, one person said the following phrase: When everything is smoking and technology is smashed to smithereens and your friends are torn there, and you are just lucky, you understand that our technology is the "best" in the world. And what about the Arabs, what kind of students they are, they are normal students and soldiers. Ordinary pilots did such things in the sky that our combatants only dreamed of.
        1. Don
          Don 27 June 2013 10: 24 New
          0
          Quote: Vovka Levka
          Ordinary pilots did such things in the sky that our combatants only dreamed of.

          Arab pilots? Well done, only here the war with Israel showed what their pilots are. I remember watching an interview with one of our adviser in Egypt. He said that the Egyptian pilots, when they showed them the MiG-21, the first thing they asked was how to use the catapult.
      2. berimor
        berimor 4 July 2013 14: 43 New
        0
        I was part of our 18 zrd OS, which covered Egypt in 1970-1971. To compare the theater of operations of Vietnam and Egypt and the use of the S-75 air defense system there is complete amateurism! In Vietnam, the terrain is mostly covered with dense jungle, the equipment there was easily camouflaged, the combat use of enemy aircraft was initially at medium and high altitudes, the S-75 air defense systems were not known to the Amers especially at first, and in Egypt everything was exactly the opposite. The terrain is deserted, flat or slightly hilly, it is very difficult to mask the air defense system, the frequencies and combat characteristics of the S-75 air defense system were completely known to the enemy (especially after the capture of entire S-75 air defense systems during the Six Day War in 1967 at Sinai), especially since this the complex was not designed to deal with aircraft at extremely low and low altitudes. And the terrain, I recall, allowed the Israelis to fly at altitudes of up to 25-50 m. Only with the advent of our division equipped with the S-125 Neva air defense system (in Egypt it was called Pecher) did the situation radically change. Therefore, without knowing the essence of the issue, it’s better to read more historical military literature, by the way there is a lot of material about this period now on Wikipedia and in Google, and also in VO !. Yours faithfully!.
  4. Professor
    Professor 21 June 2013 10: 44 New
    -5
    During that 10 operation in June, a major air battle took place in the sky of Lebanon. On both sides participated in it about 350 aircraft. In this battle, Syria lost 22 aircraft (4 MiG-23МФ, 8 MiG-23MS, 10 MiG-21bis). Israelis have lost 10 aircraft. In general, from 6 to 11 June, the Syrian air force shot down 23 in air battles and lost 47 aircraft. Anti-aircraft missile brigades in the skies over Lebanon and partially over Syria destroyed 35 air targets, of which 27 aircraft.

    I’m lying as an eyewitness. laughing

    This topic has already been sucked thousands of times - the Syrians have not provided any material evidence of their aerial "victories" for 30 years ... By the way, in the Israeli Air Force, an aerial victory is awarded if there are undeniable evidence (for example, aircraft wreckage) or there is evidence of at least two witnesses. That is, if the pilot, returning to the base, declares that the plane was shot down by him, but no one else saw it, then the victory is not read to him. A couple of years ago, an Israeli family looked through their film archives about a vacation in the Sinai in 1973. A burning Egyptian MiG hit the camera lens. The video was shown on TV. The Air Force found a pilot who claimed in 1973 that he shot down in that place and during the MiG. The victory was counted 40 years later. The Arabs find this easier. Returned alive - start telling fairy tales because you are already a national hero. wassat
    1. lars
      lars 21 June 2013 10: 55 New
      +5
      Quote: Professor
      The Syrians have not presented any material evidence of their aerial "victories" for 30 years ...

      Argument - I do not argue, as the "world community" and captured (killed) Turkish servicemen were not presented, although there is plenty of documentary evidence ...
      Quote: Professor
      Arabs have it easier. He returned alive, start telling tales

      Comrade G. Yashkin is not an Arab ...
      1. Professor
        Professor 21 June 2013 11: 15 New
        -5
        Quote: lars
        although there is plenty of documentary evidence ...

        ... but not supposedly downed Israeli aircraft. I’ve already 2 years on this forum, I ask at least to call the flight numbers of these aircraft.

        Quote: lars
        Comrade G. Yashkin is not an Arab ...

        This comrade screwed up in full, Syria was rolled out like a yard team and he is looking for the guilty. On the one hand, he accuses the students (although Soviet advisers did not always only "advise"), on the other hand, he tries to smooth over their defeat into a "dry" lie.

        Tricky question. What is the photo?
        1. lars
          lars 21 June 2013 11: 33 New
          +4
          Quote: Professor
          please at least call the flight numbers of these aircraft

          As the names and personal numbers of Turkish soldiers are not named ...
          Quote: Professor
          comrade screwed up in full

          Screwed up, still not the right term. A number of battles are lost. Undoubtedly, the lack of mastery (other objective and subjective components) of both Syrians and number of Soviet advisers (participants). But if you follow your terminology, "screwed up" not in full ...
          Quote: Professor
          and he is looking for the guilty

          I do not see (probably due to subjectivity) the search for those responsible. Cause analysis - yes ...
          Quote: Professor
          What is the photo?

          I won’t lie - I don’t know ...
          1. Professor
            Professor 21 June 2013 11: 41 New
            -2
            Quote: lars
            As the names and personal numbers of Turkish soldiers are not named ...

            And here is Turkey? Is it discussed in the article? request

            Quote: lars
            But if you follow your terminology, "screwed up" not in full ...

            It is in full especially in the air.
            In the photo, the losers of the Syrian troops leave Beirut under Israeli flags.
            1. Cynic
              Cynic 21 June 2013 11: 50 New
              +6
              Quote: Professor
              Syrian troops leave Beirut under Israeli flags

              Specially formulated so?
              Or didn’t they understand what they wrote?
              Yes, even
              And how does the Israeli flag feel in Beirut now?
            2. lars
              lars 21 June 2013 11: 54 New
              +4
              Quote: Professor
              And here is Turkey? Is it discussed in the article?

              An analogy showing the Syrians lacking an information component in war and politics ...
              Quote: Professor
              It is in full

              Subjectively, there is nothing to be done about it ...
              Quote: Professor
              troops are leaving

              Troops that have lost the battle traditionally "leave" the battlefieldrequest
              Quote: Professor
              under the Israeli flags

              These flags are not on their cars. winked
              1. Professor
                Professor 21 June 2013 12: 22 New
                -2
                Quote: lars
                These flags are not on their cars.

                I would like to see how the Syrians set Israeli flags on their cars. bully The portraits of the Assad elder are clearly visible in the photo.
            3. dustycat
              dustycat 21 June 2013 15: 44 New
              +2
              Winning battles does not mean winning a war.
              Politics has stolen and sold many victories.
              1. atalef
                atalef 21 June 2013 18: 48 New
                -7
                Quote: dustycat
                Winning battles does not mean winning a war.

                Another student decided to exercise in wit. laughing
                1. Cynic
                  Cynic 21 June 2013 18: 56 New
                  +4
                  Quote: atalef
                  Another schoolboy decided in wit

                  Difficult school past? Would you like to talk about it?
                  bully
          2. atalef
            atalef 21 June 2013 18: 46 New
            -4
            Quote: lars
            How are the names and personal numbers of Turkish soldiers not named.

            but the wreckage that is (although shot down over the sea) And then shot down over Lebanon ..... and nothing.
        2. dustycat
          dustycat 21 June 2013 15: 46 New
          +1
          ".. though I would like to name the side numbers of these aircraft"

          Well, call the side numbers of two Turkish shot down this winter.
          Or they weren’t shot down either, they fell down ?!
        3. lab29
          lab29 21 June 2013 16: 44 New
          -1
          In my opinion, outright photoshop ...
        4. S-200
          23 June 2013 10: 10 New
          +2
          here is your tail number your "Eagle"
          1. Professor
            Professor 23 June 2013 13: 37 New
            0
            Quote: S-200
            here is the tail number of your "Eagle"

            Not solidly somehow it turns out on your part. This photo has already been discussed. I jumped out of the strip during a training flight on August 4, attention !!! 1998the year of the territory of Israel. Here is more about him on the Israeli Air Force website (by the way, your photo is from there). שובו של העפרוני

            Go for it. wink

            PS
            Board number 689. hi
            1. Cynic
              Cynic 23 June 2013 20: 45 New
              0
              Quote: Professor
              Go for it.

              What was the conversation about!
              Overall
              - Is it true that Vaska won the car in the lottery?
              - Truth. Just not a car, but a thousand rubles. And not in the lottery, but in preference, and did not win, but lost ...
            2. Don
              Don 2 July 2013 11: 36 New
              0
              Quote: Professor
              I jumped out of the strip during a training flight on August 4th attention !!! 1998 year of the territory of Israel. Here is more about him on the Israeli Air Force website

              laughing The Israeli Air Force is certainly not a biased source.
              1. Professor
                Professor 2 July 2013 11: 42 New
                0
                Quote: Don
                The Israeli Air Force is certainly not a biased source.

                It was they who posted this photo, without them you would not have known about what happened at all. How do I understand you have no other confirmed version?
      2. dustycat
        dustycat 21 June 2013 15: 42 New
        +3
        Hmm, raids (even in computer games like FNUMX) mainly from the sea.
        After the defeat at a confident range, the wreckage at sea (winter incident with Turkish F16).
        Well, what to show if the waters of NATO and Israel control?
        Only those aces that were shot down already over their territory and who were unlucky to get to their place or be picked up by an evacuation team.
        1. Professor
          Professor 21 June 2013 15: 46 New
          -2
          Quote: dustycat
          Hmm, raids (even in computer games like FNUMX) mainly from the sea.
          After the defeat at a confident range, the wreckage at sea (winter incident with Turkish F16).
          Well, what to show if the waters of NATO and Israel control?
          Only those aces that were shot down already over their territory and who were unlucky to get to their place or be picked up by an evacuation team.

          One, two, five reached the sea from Bekaa (look at the map for a start), but where are all the others? Did all the pilots survive? KGB could not even find out the side numbers? The general is lying and the Syrians lied.
          1. Cynic
            Cynic 21 June 2013 17: 17 New
            +2
            Quote: Professor
            KGB could not even find out the side numbers? The general is lying and the Syrians lied.

            The bloody gebnya and the Syrians neither at that time nor now suspect that you will need it.
            The humor of the situation is that someone put out these notorious numbers, you would be the first to say _ falsification.
            C'mon, the thing is different.
            Having spent enough time at the forum, I can safely say that dear forum users are conducting discussions under the flag of the state of Israel, they are leading them in the best Soviet traditions.
            How are the Poles singing _ Polish has not disappeared yet ?
            Exactly . If even people who position themselves as opponents of CCCP take advantage of its legacy and essentially carry within it its legacy that is quite clearly manifested in its behavior, then
            The rumor of my death was greatly exaggerated. CCCP


            wink
            1. atalef
              atalef 21 June 2013 18: 49 New
              -4
              Quote: Cynic
              The humor of the situation is that someone put out these notorious numbers, you would be the first to say _ falsification.

              And only out of fear of the professor - do not spread. You are a demagogue bythenka.
              1. Cynic
                Cynic 21 June 2013 19: 03 New
                +2
                Quote: atalef
                And only out of fear of the professor - do not spread.

                Yes Yes .
                Sorry, but all your statements are by the rule
                Even if there’s nothing to say, still say it!
          2. S-200
            22 June 2013 17: 24 New
            +3
            All downed aircraft that could be collected from the ground were transferred to our specialists in the USSR for the study of adversary airborne and special equipment wink they didn’t show anything ... Let the enemy not know that we know everything about him! ... lol
            1. 0255
              0255 23 June 2013 16: 44 New
              0
              LOGICAL. IT CANNOT BE ISRAEL LOST 1 "KFIR" AND KNOWN 102 SOVIET FIGHTERS, AT THE SAME TIME DISPOSING ALL SYRIAN air defense, EVEN WHEN THE F-15 IS OVER THE MIGS 21 AND 23.
      3. atalef
        atalef 21 June 2013 18: 45 New
        -4
        Quote: lars
        Comrade G. Yashkin is not an Arab

        Exactly, although it stars like Trotsky. Where are the wrecks? 27 all the same, and shot down over Lebanon? Here the jeep (abandoned by the IDF) was stored for 12 years and dragged into Syria, and here 27 planes, no photos, no debris - nothing. laughing
        1. S-200
          22 June 2013 19: 45 New
          0
          so "yours" on nonferrous metals quickly and pulled away! laughing
        2. 0255
          0255 23 June 2013 16: 51 New
          0
          S-200 wrote that the downed F-15 and F-16 were taken to the USSR. I think that in 1982, these aircraft were of great value to Soviet designers.
          In Soviet times, information about any wars was classified, but in vain. They would publish a photo of how they were studied in the USSR ...
          and who needs a jeep abandoned by the IDF?
    2. Cynic
      Cynic 21 June 2013 11: 40 New
      +4
      Quote: Professor
      He returned alive, start telling tales because you are already a national hero.

      The numbers are not enough for fairy tales, still a toe!
      1. Professor
        Professor 21 June 2013 11: 45 New
        -1
        Quote: Cynic
        The numbers are not enough for fairy tales, still a toe!

        Well, you can’t say that they destroyed the number of aircraft in excess of the nominal composition of the Israeli Air Force. wink
        1. Cynic
          Cynic 21 June 2013 12: 10 New
          +2
          Quote: Professor
          destroyed the number of aircraft in excess of the nominal composition of the air force

          For fairy tales, this is not a problem!
          I’m joking.
          Seriously, each of the parties to the conflict always exaggerates other people's losses and understates their own!
          At one time, I met such a statement _ Israel, winning individual battles, loses in general.
          Something resembles an attempt to extinguish a fire with gasoline.
          Don't you find?
          For clarity, _ For me, pacifism is not a solution to the problem.
          hi
          1. Professor
            Professor 21 June 2013 12: 23 New
            -3
            Quote: Cynic
            Seriously, each of the parties to the conflict always exaggerates other people's losses and understates their own!

            One thing is for sure, in Israel it is impossible to conceal any losses. Not a single soldier.
            1. Cynic
              Cynic 21 June 2013 13: 00 New
              +3
              Quote: Professor
              in Israel it is impossible to conceal any losses. Not a single soldier.

              Your words can be interpreted very broadly.
              Stop on this.
              hi
              1. atalef
                atalef 21 June 2013 18: 52 New
                -3
                Quote: Cynic
                Quote: Professor
                in Israel it is impossible to conceal any losses. Not a single soldier.
                Your words can be interpreted very broadly.
                Stop on this

                I also agree 100% with this. In Israel, it’s not really possible to hide losses, especially pilots and planes.
                It never happened. and even more so after so many years.
                The general is lying, almost half of the General Staff was in Syria. From the number of stars on the epaulettes of advisers, it’s just rippling in the eyes --- and the result laughing
                1. old man54
                  old man54 22 June 2013 22: 39 New
                  -2
                  Quote: atalef
                  The general is lying, almost half of the General Staff was in Syria. From the number of stars on the epaulettes of advisers, it’s just rippling in the eyes --- and the result laughing

                  I think that if, then, until the 90th, you would have told him such a thing that he was lying, ooh, I’m sorry, I’m even sorry for you, and would have been racing for a long time, rightly so!
                  And what a result, a normal result! It would be even better if all sorts of punks under the flag of a prison clan and other European hop-company did not interfere with the Syrians, they would have piled Jews, no worse than we did the Georgians in '08! :)) But ... there will be more! ))
            2. Don
              Don 21 June 2013 13: 30 New
              +3
              Quote: Professor
              One thing is for sure, in Israel it is impossible to conceal any losses. Not a single soldier.

              And if the losses are not in the soldiers, but in the technology? And human losses can be hidden if you really want to.
              1. Professor
                Professor 21 June 2013 14: 00 New
                -2
                Quote: Don
                And if the losses are not in the soldiers, but in the technology? And human losses can be hidden if you really want to.

                1. It is impossible in Israel to even theoretically hide the death of even one soldier.
                2. Tell me the side numbers of the "downed" aircraft and I will show their photos after the war.
                1. Airman
                  Airman 21 June 2013 20: 19 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Professor
                  Quote: Don
                  And if the losses are not in the soldiers, but in the technology? And human losses can be hidden if you really want to.

                  1. It is impossible in Israel to even theoretically hide the death of even one soldier.
                  2. Tell me the side numbers of the "downed" aircraft and I will show their photos after the war.


                  Professor, in the USSR, 1400 SU-15 aircraft were produced, they were armed with 28 regiments. As a rule, side numbers were double-digit. So side numbers mean nothing. Factory serial numbers can prove something.
                  1. Professor
                    Professor 21 June 2013 20: 45 New
                    -5
                    Quote: Povshnik
                    As a rule, side numbers were double digits.

                    In Israel, they are three-digit and there is no double-entry bookkeeping. Serial numbers are just a dream ... bully
              2. atalef
                atalef 21 June 2013 19: 00 New
                -2
                Quote: Don
                And if the losses are not in the soldiers, but in the technology? And human losses can be hidden if you really want to.

                It is impossible to hide in Israel, the country is small, and no one has ever made secrets from losses. All the dead are known by name. And for the pilots, you simply do not understand that they have families. wives in this case begin to receive pensions. children allowances; Assistance to the families of the deceased is simply enormous and lasts up to 24 years. This is from tuition. tax-free car purchase (and the possibility of replacing it every 3 years), pensions, etc. the list is huge. Here it means 27 pilots died. pensions are not paid (as well as benefits), because it’s hidden (as you understand. But families are silent, and for what? What would they keep silence for 30 years? Do you think they gave grandmothers so that families are silent --- you don’t know Israel. This is not Russia There are 12 time zones, and the whole country is 500 km long and 14 km (at its narrowest point) wide. The husbands are missing and no one asks questions.
                fool
                1. Cynic
                  Cynic 21 June 2013 19: 27 New
                  +1
                  Quote: atalef
                  It is impossible to hide in Israel

                  Well, I didn’t want about that.

                  Quote: Cynic
                  Your words can be interpreted very broadly.
                  Stop on this.

                  In general, so _ And who generally speaks of Israel?
                  Talks about information Tsahal for foreign countries.
                  You still say that the IDF was not missing and is not!
                  Enough .
                  We are just bazaar here, and the parents of neither the living nor the dead still have pain! And suddenly in captivity, and not to shreds or just coals!
                  ALL !!!
                  1. atalef
                    atalef 21 June 2013 19: 36 New
                    -3
                    Quote: Cynic
                    You still say that the IDF was not missing and is not!
                    All grab

                    Today - 7 people
                    http://izrus.co.il/dvuhstoronka/article/2009-09-04/6148.html
                    But, their names are known, parents and relatives know, and no one hides this. They don’t know what happened, agree tankers and pilots - this is a little difference. A plane cannot fly endlessly.
                    In the case of missing persons (the majority of the tanuists), the burned tank was found (in contrast to Yashin’s words about aircraft not found), they don’t know what happened to the tankers.
                    1. Pimply
                      Pimply 21 June 2013 21: 28 New
                      -1
                      Not 7. 5. Three in a battle at the Sultan-Yakub, Guy Hever in 1997, and navigator Ron Arad. 7 was a few years ago
                  2. Pimply
                    Pimply 21 June 2013 20: 31 New
                    0
                    Missing in Israel are known by name.
            3. S-200
              22 June 2013 19: 58 New
              0
              impossible IT WAS (in 1970's) or NOW hide ??
              The Americans also lost their own (AWACS Hawkeye) in 1984. they did not recognize the Libyan S-200VE, but they hit the road ... and they have so much "freedom of speech" and so on. wink
              1. Professor
                Professor 22 June 2013 20: 01 New
                0
                Quote: S-200
                impossible IT WAS (in 1970's) or NOW hide ??

                Neither then nor now, the specifics of the country is this.
          2. Pimply
            Pimply 21 June 2013 12: 46 New
            -5
            Quote: Cynic
            Seriously, each of the parties to the conflict always exaggerates other people's losses and understates their own!

            This phrase is usually incorrect. It all depends on the party.
            1. Cynic
              Cynic 21 June 2013 13: 02 New
              +3
              Quote: Pimply
              This phrase is usually incorrect. It all depends on the party.

              Yes Yes .
              There are two opinions - one is mine and the other is wrong!
            2. Don
              Don 21 June 2013 13: 38 New
              +1
              Quote: Pimply
              This phrase is usually incorrect. It all depends on the party.

              Well, yes, it depends on the side, on the winning side. Even Alexander the Great, in his reports to Greece, after the battle of Gaugamela, wrote that he killed 1 million Persians in this battle, and lost 150 people.
        2. Argon
          Argon 21 June 2013 12: 48 New
          +1
          Dear professor (no sorts of words) I was interested in the described episode with the defeat of "Hawkeye", how would you comment?
          1. Professor
            Professor 21 June 2013 14: 03 New
            -1
            Quote: Argon
            Dear professor (no sorts of words) I was interested in the described episode with the defeat of "Hawkeye", how would you comment?

            Israel has not lost a single Hokai. Recently, in this resource in the description of c-200, it was hypothesized that Hokai detected a missile launch and fell behind the ridge, the operators lost the mark on the screen and decided that they had shot it down. Maybe it was so.
          2. S-200
            23 June 2013 09: 36 New
            0
            September or December 1983 - S-200 air defense systems with a Soviet designation (220th regiment), stationed in Syria, shot down the Hokkai E-2C. Is this about that?
    3. dustycat
      dustycat 21 June 2013 15: 32 New
      +4
      Actually, on the television in the News then they showed downed pilots and downed planes.
      What was very surprising then was that the hands of downed captive pilots were always in bandages.
      According to books about the Second World War, I thought burns.
      Father (VUS - radar operator of detection and guidance) explained - lucky - shrapnel horrible, not rods.
      Surprise again - shrapnel, rods? Shrapnel is a large 10-20 g each (artillery) - it should tear off the hands of the leg (according to the stories about the Great Patriotic War and the Second World War).
      It turned out that the shrapnel is small in anti-aircraft missiles - balls 5-8mm.
      1. Professor
        Professor 21 June 2013 15: 43 New
        -1
        Quote: dustycat
        Actually, on the television in the News then they showed downed pilots and downed planes.

        They showed it in the 70, but did not show the 80 due to the absence of captured pilots.
    4. fzr1000
      fzr1000 21 June 2013 16: 36 New
      +2
      Those. Colonel General Grigory Pavlovich Yashkin, do you think a liar? What's the point? Does he quite objectively describe the victories of the IDF and the failures of the ATS and our leaders, too? Yes, and their flaws, too. Why should she brazenly ascribe to herself non-existent victories?
      1. Professor
        Professor 21 June 2013 16: 49 New
        -5
        Quote: fzr1000
        Those. Colonel General Grigory Pavlovich Yashkin, do you think a liar?

        Liar with stripes.

        Quote: fzr1000
        What's the point?

        Innocent I, he came ...
      2. atalef
        atalef 21 June 2013 19: 06 New
        -5
        Quote: fzr1000
        Those. Colonel General Grigory Pavlovich Yashkin, do you think a liar?

        Yes

        Quote: fzr1000
        What's the point?

        Ask him . Why did Syria announce a month ago that during the raid they shot down an airplane and two pilots felts in captivity, or they died. Well, where is all this? And you say the meaning. Or the fact that the Syrians attacked the radar in the Golan and destroyed it with seven missiles - and where is it all?
        I'm asking you ? And you say the meaning. By the way, Anna News - practiced the whole way, ask them by the way about the meaning of lies. Where are the pilots? Where are the debris? Or again we hide laughing
        1. fzr1000
          fzr1000 21 June 2013 20: 55 New
          +3
          And here is a regular military man and journalists? All interfere in one heap. They lie in Syria, they lie in the USSR, they lie in Russia, only Israel is telling the truth. You have comrades — the Israelis have a heightened sense of their own importance. Thank. We drove through.
          1. Professor
            Professor 21 June 2013 20: 58 New
            -4
            Quote: fzr1000
            And here is a regular military man and journalists? All interfere in one heap. They lie in Syria, they lie in the USSR, they lie in Russia, only Israel is telling the truth. You have comrades — the Israelis have a heightened sense of their own importance. Thanks. We drove through.

            Things to the studio !!!
          2. atalef
            atalef 21 June 2013 20: 58 New
            -5
            Quote: fzr1000
            They lie in Syria, they lie in the USSR, they lie in Russia, only Israel is telling the truth

            We have the same lie. but not this. Our army is generally holy and losses or surrender were never considered shameful. There is simply no reason to lie.
  5. Pimply
    Pimply 21 June 2013 12: 47 New
    -1
    To get started, look at the year of the article.
  6. misham
    misham 21 June 2013 13: 17 New
    +1
    Somehow, comrade Yashkin needs to justify everything that happened. There was not one and this was not enough, but they had this and that. The Israelis showed how to fight (this applies to the air operation). Make the most of their strengths, neutralize threats from the enemy. Then someone will change their mind.
    Back in 73, the Israelis suffered heavy losses and could not do anything with Egyptian air defense until the Sharon tanks reached the positions of air defense systems and radar. Ours rested on their laurels and forgot that time does not stand still. Avaxa, EW aircraft and drones. An alarming bell sounded in Vietnam - SHRAIK. But then it seems like they solved the problem in time by disconnecting and deploying the radar

    In fairness, for the sake of the war, the Syrians still fought with the help of our advisers, and not the Air Force and Air Defense of the USSR.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. atalef
      atalef 21 June 2013 19: 08 New
      -2
      Quote: misham
      Back in 73, the Israelis suffered heavy losses and could not do anything with Egyptian air defense until the Sharon tanks reached the positions of air defense systems and radar

      And by the way, none of this secret did. but when it comes to Yashkin --- here for some reason, from the side of Israel is a complete conspiracy. Apparently the advisers worked so that there was nothing left but to lie. Real (confirmed) victories are zero.
  7. Suvorov000
    Suvorov000 21 June 2013 13: 29 New
    +3
    And then the Israelites again raised high)))))))))))))
  8. Napalm
    Napalm 21 June 2013 13: 49 New
    0
    Who are interested in following these links?
    view of events from Israel

    http://shaon.livejournal.com/36379.html
    http://shaon.livejournal.com/11603.html#cutid1/
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 21 June 2013 20: 51 New
      -1
      This is Alexander Shulman. There he has too much pathos, no better than Yashkin. It is necessary to read Oleg Granovsky, who has everything very competently and on the shelves
      http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/lebanon-losses.htm
  9. creak
    creak 21 June 2013 13: 50 New
    +8
    [quote = misham] Somehow, comrade Yashkin needs to justify everything that happened. There was not one and this was not enough, but they had this and that. The Israelis showed how to fight (this applies to the air operation). Make the most of their strengths, neutralize threats from the enemy. Then someone will change their mind.

    Everyone imagines himself a strategist seeing the battle from the side ... How do you know how to act in Syria? As the saying goes, which regiment served and where did you have to fight? I happened to serve in a similar situation in the zone of the Suek Canal in 1969-72 in the group of Soviet military advisers and I think that in general the article is set out correctly. I know this from my own experience and do not presume about what I do not know ...
  10. misham
    misham 21 June 2013 14: 06 New
    0
    And what does the Israelis have to do with it. That SA is indestructible and legendary. And there has never been a defeat. There was everything and gallant victories and bitter defeats. This applies to any army and the Israeli too. Well done Israelis built their aircraft from scratch, having nothing at all.

    An article in the magazine 88goda ..... Now data is available from that side. The Syrians did not have such a number of downed planes either in air battles or with the help of air defense and air defense systems. The story with Hokai in 83 is also muddy. Disappeared from Syrian radars fell into the sea from the S-200 or engines refused. Nobody investigated the debris and the black box, so the middle is half. Was there a boy - i.e. HOCKEY. Maybe the professor will enlighten
    1. fzr1000
      fzr1000 21 June 2013 16: 44 New
      +2
      Did you fight yourself? The reference to the Professor is untenable. His word is against the word of the general. The Professor does not have any proof either, the maximum is that there are links to "sources", the truth of which he cannot prove, since this can only be confirmed by the IDF military archive, which no one has access to on the site.
      1. Professor
        Professor 21 June 2013 16: 52 New
        -3
        Quote: fzr1000
        His word is against the word of the general.

        The accuser must provide evidence, not the other way around. hi
        1. Cynic
          Cynic 21 June 2013 17: 34 New
          +2
          Quote: Professor
          The accuser must provide evidence, not the other way around.

          So we are waiting! The very ones like them, Oh! Evidence!
          Quote: Professor
          Liar with stripes.

          Your words ?
          So what _ evidence in the studio!
        2. fzr1000
          fzr1000 21 June 2013 20: 58 New
          +1
          We are not in court. You call the general a liar. He then respected the enemy. Bye.
      2. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 21 June 2013 16: 55 New
        -1
        Quote: fzr1000
        Did you fight yourself? The reference to the Professor is untenable. His word is against the word of the general. The Professor does not have any proof either, the maximum is that there are links to "sources", the truth of which he cannot prove, since this can only be confirmed by the IDF military archive, which no one has access to on the site.

        I recommend that you read the articles below.
  11. smart ass
    smart ass 21 June 2013 14: 46 New
    0
    right on the photo JOHN JAY REMBO)))
    1. misham
      misham 21 June 2013 17: 18 New
      +1
      By the way, Rimbaud-3 was shot in Izrailovka. For fun, Jews make an anti-Soviet film about the valiant Muslim partisans
  12. svoboda1970
    svoboda1970 21 June 2013 15: 39 New
    0
    The Israelis got a snot. It is a fact. 10 or 20 of them shot down is the second question. We got the main thing. And, I think, for a long time they had this in mind. good
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 21 June 2013 18: 00 New
      -1
      In 2000, after the IDF withdrawal from Lebanon, the Israel Air Force Journal published data on the losses of the Air Force for the 06.06.82-24.05.00 period (No.235, August 2000, p. 6). It is reported that over 18 years lost:

      5 combat aircraft;
      2 combat helicopters;
      2 transport helicopters;
      7 crew members and 2 fighter 669 died;
      3 pilot captured and returned to Israel, 1 (navigator Ron Arad) - did not return.
      1. Cynic
        Cynic 21 June 2013 19: 34 New
        +3
        Quote: Pimply
        5 combat aircraft;

        Mmm.
        We talked about 10 above or 5 + 2 + 2 = 9, but all the same 10 is not.
        Statistical error?
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 21 June 2013 20: 34 New
          -3
          10 mentioned in an article Yashkin about one of the days.

          Granovsky has types, if you are interested, which ones exactly.
  13. Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi 21 June 2013 16: 12 New
    -2
    http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/indices/index-history-firstlebanon.html
    A good selection of articles on the topic.
    1. fzr1000
      fzr1000 21 June 2013 21: 13 New
      +2
      I read it. The USSR is lying, Israel is not. Of officialdom, there is only a link to the Israeli Air Force website, which does not open. Does not convince. Yes, I’m all the same.
  14. svoboda1970
    svoboda1970 21 June 2013 17: 02 New
    +3
    The "professorial" composition of those commenting on the face ...
    1. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 21 June 2013 17: 11 New
      -3
      Quote: svoboda1970
      The "professorial" composition of those commenting on the face ...

      This can be understood as a compliment. wink
      1. svoboda1970
        svoboda1970 21 June 2013 17: 16 New
        +1
        wink Understand!
  15. DZ_98_B
    DZ_98_B 21 June 2013 17: 56 New
    -2
    In 1924, RUSSIA WINS THE CIVIL WAR !!!! VICTORY IN THE CIVIL WAR AGAINST whites, British, Japanese, Americans, Germans, etc. and the Arabs want the Russians to fight. And then and now. Syrians do you want victory? Fight. !!!! a million refugees? Would you not go? FIGHT !!! DIE !!! WIN !!! YOU DO NOT WANT???? DO YOU NEED RUSSIANS ??? So that we die ?????
    1. atalef
      atalef 21 June 2013 19: 12 New
      -7
      Quote: DZ_98_B
      In 1924, RUSSIA WINS THE CIVIL WAR !!!! VICTORY IN THE CIVIL WAR AGAINST whites, British, Japanese, Americans, Germans

      But what about the Russians? Somehow, most of the dead were neither Germans (with whom Lenin concluded a separate peace giving 0 half of Ukraine, Belarus, etc., neither the British, nor the Americans (by the way, why didn’t they remember the Czechs?)
      \ Whose is this? Interventionists?
  16. sergey72
    sergey72 21 June 2013 18: 33 New
    +3
    By the way, the Americans also claimed that they had not suffered losses during the raids on Syria in that war. However, there is a photograph of the skeleton of an airplane in which F-14 is clearly guessed. If I find a photo I will definitely post it.
  17. DZ_98_B
    DZ_98_B 21 June 2013 20: 22 New
    -3
    In Syria, a civil war ???? Everybody writes. So or not? And IN OUR CIVIL WAR AGAINST THE WHOLE WORLD, SOVIET RUSSIA WON! Syrians !!!!!! do you want to live in your own country? so fight for your homeland! WHY RUSSIANS SHOULD FOR YOU TO FIGHT WITH JEWS ???
  18. atalef
    atalef 21 June 2013 20: 32 New
    -7
    Quote: DZ_98_B
    so fight for your homeland! WHY RUSSIANS SHOULD FOR YOU TO FIGHT WITH JEWS ???

    This is just a habit developed over the years.
  19. combatpilot
    combatpilot 21 June 2013 21: 02 New
    +4
    Phantom equipped with Standard Arm, Shrike, and Maverick missiles. "Phantoms" destroyed the remaining radars and launchers, and from ranges greater than the radius of the Syrian anti-aircraft missiles of medium range (from the line of 60-80 km).
    The author needs to refresh the range of these missiles. Phantoms were definitely in the affected area.


    The direct cover units, Osa, were shot down: 202 self-propelled guns — five unmanned aircraft, and the 231st regiment — six. A 202 self-propelled missile system launched one Hokai early warning aircraft at a range of 190 km.


    The regiment carried the 220th number. The wasps were on guard. Hokai shot down S-200
  20. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 21 June 2013 21: 04 New
    -2
    The professor works out his nickname and avatar very well. !! Clearly without emotion the facts are laid out .. smart and patient .. ...
    1. Cynic
      Cynic 22 June 2013 14: 42 New
      +2
      Quote: MIKHAN
      The professor works out his nickname and avatar very well. !! Clearly without emotion the facts are laid out .. smart and patient .. ...

      What fulfills, then fulfills. I just would not say that clearly (sclerosis?) The repetitions here went and not without emotions, not without them.
      Judge for yourself
      Quote: Professor
      the Syrian army shamefully leaves Beirut under Israeli flags.

      Well, we won’t talk about the construction of the phrase, it was discussed, but shamefully leaves ... As far as I remember, losers but not surrendered leave the city! And then some parity respected Professor trying to disavow.
      True, thank you for not writing _ Shamefully fleeing.
      and indeed, if there are such clumsy and ignoramuses around. so what Israel is still fighting and the end and edge can not see!
  21. Alekseev
    Alekseev 21 June 2013 23: 41 New
    +5
    There are many facts and facts about the Lebanese war, and, not only at the professor. He glorifies Israel ...
    And, in general, there is a reason. The defeat of the system of military air defense, the state of Israeli aviation in the air - that was. The reasons are known.
    But ... The professor, like any "specialist" - "is like a flux, its completeness is one-sided" wink
    Parties to the conflict provide different information about their successes and losses.
    Yes, it always has been! And you will not find the truth in the internet! The professor himself, or his opponents, considered burned tanks and downed planes!
    It seems best to look at the well-known results of the war.
    It immediately became clear that this war was not at all an easy walk for the IDF.
    Losses, and significant, suffered both sides.
    Israel managed to expel the PLO from Lebanon, but the defeat of the Syrian troops did not work.
    If such a military defeat took place, then Syria would not have retained its influence in Lebanon.
    After the war, the territory controlled by the Syrians practically did not decrease.
    1. Professor
      Professor 22 June 2013 08: 13 New
      -2
      Quote: Alekseev
      Israel managed to expel the PLO from Lebanon, but the defeat of the Syrian troops did not work.
      If such a military defeat took place, then Syria would not have retained its influence in Lebanon.
      After the war, the territory controlled by the Syrians practically did not decrease.

      Especially for you, the Syrian army shamefully leaves Beirut under Israeli flags.
      1. Alekseev
        Alekseev 22 June 2013 09: 50 New
        +1
        Quote: Professor
        Especially for you, the Syrian army shamefully leaves Beirut under Israeli flags.

        It seems that I have already seen this picture. smile Well, it leaves, well, a flag was stuck on the building (maybe a photo-collar), I'm not asking you to "push propaganda". I can myself. tongue laughing
        A specific question: Syria did not lose any influence over the large territory in Lebanon after the 1982 war,
        nor military potential. Although there were serious losses.
        A little to the side.
        In my opinion, one of the main reasons the defeats of the Arabs in the wars in the Middle East (as, by the way, of the Red Army in the war, the beginning of which we all remember today) were the people who stood at the leadership of their Armed Forces.
        In the Arab countries developed clan relationship, clan relations.
        Various "udots" are appointed to positions on the basis of personal loyalty. In the USSR, before the Second World War, there were other reasons for the nomination of incompetent, but The result is the same.
        And in modern Russia, such a danger stands at full height. "Effective managers" got it.
        Yes, it wasn’t worth it, again, in my opinion, maybe I’m mistaken, the Soviet Union was so messing with the Arabs.
        Egypt with these prostitutes Sadat, Mubarak, this victim Arafat, and Assad all his life looked back to the West. Both ours and yours. Some unpaid debts from this pi ... fraternity. What is it now !? wassat Are you guys like that?
        1. Professor
          Professor 22 June 2013 10: 55 New
          -1
          Quote: Alekseev
          Well, it leaves, well, a flag was stuck on the building (maybe a photo-collar), I'm not asking you to "push propaganda"

          It turns out Photoshop was invented in the distant 1982. wink You are trying to judge the situation in Lebanon in 1982 without knowing basic things (as an example, the shameful retreat of the Syrian troops at the mercy of the IDF).

          Quote: Alekseev
          the survey is specific: Syria did not lose after the 1982 war either influence on a large territory in Lebanon or military potential. Although serious losses were

          Even as it was lost, Christians, who made up a significant part of the Lebanese population, sided with Israel, the Druze ran from side to side, Shiites ruled Iran, and the Sunnis in general no one. And where is the influence of Syria? request
          1. Alekseev
            Alekseev 22 June 2013 15: 58 New
            +2
            "
            Quote: Professor
            Even as it was lost, Christians, who made up a significant part of the Lebanese population, sided with Israel, the Druze ran from side to side, Shiites ruled Iran, and the Sunnis in general no one. And where is the influence of Syria

            Well, the "husband of Israel", all the more you just can't get through the professor.
            He knows things, both elementary and complex, too. wink I saw it myself, yes.
            But Hezbollah (or hez, I do not care) where did it come from in Lebanon? And how is she with Syria?
            Something "men of Israel" with her strongly "at knives."
            They even kind of fought somehow ... And they complained that she had good anti-tank systems ...
            It, of course, this "score", ultimately, also shamefully retreated, just like the Syrian troops. request
            Not sure where she is now? what
            Success in teaching students. wink
            1. Professor
              Professor 22 June 2013 16: 03 New
              -1
              Quote: Alekseev
              Success in teaching students.

              I can give you an educational program. wink
              Quote: Alekseev
              Not sure where she is now?

              Hezbollah sits in Lebanon quieter than water below the grass. From 2006, he licks his wounds and behaves quietly. Its leader Nasrallah from the bunker appeared for 7 years only a couple of times, and then for a few minutes. This is how the winners behave. wassat
              1. Alekseev
                Alekseev 22 June 2013 16: 56 New
                +1
                It seems that you are not leaving the computer! laughing
                So it would be somebody to educational program!
                No, thanks. polish your talent better ...
                I - understand perfectly well that it is absolutely impossible to convince you (in nothing request)
                True, there are persistent rumors that the Syrian troops (although they "had no influence") gave "soot" in Lebanon participating in the civil war, and got out of there only in 2005.
                But that’s true, they lie ... lol
                However, everyone can ask who wants, of course.
                1. Professor
                  Professor 22 June 2013 19: 57 New
                  0
                  Quote: Alekseev
                  It seems that you are not leaving the computer!

                  I live in it. wassat

                  Quote: Alekseev
                  I - perfectly understand that to convince you is absolutely impossible (in nothing)

                  "In God we trust; all others must bring data. ”W. Edwards Deming.

                  Quote: Alekseev
                  True, there are persistent rumors that the Syrian troops (although they "had no influence") gave "soot" in Lebanon participating in the civil war, and got out of there only in 2005.
                  But that’s true, they lie ...

                  They are not lying, they even say that Assad was caught in the murder of the President or the Prime Minister of Lebanon. However, this has nothing to do with "Syria did not lose after the 1982 war neither its influence over a large territory in Lebanon, nor its military potential." In fact, Syria has not really lost influence over a large area in Lebanon. How can you lose something that you don't have? request
      2. 0255
        0255 23 June 2013 17: 03 New
        0
        you never know where and when they could take a picture
  22. MaKeNa
    MaKeNa 22 June 2013 07: 43 New
    0
    [quote = atalef] [quote = DZ_98_B] well, so fight for your homeland! WHY RUSSIANS SHOULD FOR YOU TO FIGHT WITH JEWS ??? [/ quote]
    Yes, the Russians and the Jews fought in the Second World War! We do not know where you would be now!
    1. atalef
      atalef 22 June 2013 10: 59 New
      +1
      Quote: MaKeNa
      Yes, Russian and the Jews fought in WWII !!

      And I thought for the Motherland. By the way, and who did my grandfather fight for then? For Israel or what?
  23. pan grizian
    pan grizian 22 June 2013 15: 46 New
    +1
    Here it is.
  24. old man54
    old man54 22 June 2013 23: 12 New
    +2
    Article plus! An interesting story turned out, thanks to the general! Syria then did not fight with Israel, in fact, but in fact with the entire Western world! With NATO!
    Jewish screamers on the site and their screams got it already, specifically! A little about their "Morder", so right there: everyone lies, but we cannot lie in principle, we are "God's chosen" :))
    Quote: Professor
    Liar with stripes.

    for such a market in the army, in general, they were beaten in the face and today they probably beat! It was painfully beaten!
  25. 0255
    0255 23 June 2013 17: 14 New
    0
    Thank you for the article. It honestly acknowledges the superiority of Israel at the beginning of the war, it is not stupid propaganda, like the fact that allegedly not a single F-15 was shot down, or that not a single Abrams was destroyed by the T-72.
    It is a pity that most of our people believe in Israel's victory "dry"
  26. S-200
    24 June 2013 07: 33 New
    0
    The Israelis, hastening to declare richer Russia their strategic partner, now with their characteristic "unobtrusiveness" let US understand that:
    1. Russia's ally - Syria is flawed on points:
    and). terrorism
    b) technical and civilized backwardness (as such)
    at). other inferiority ...
    2. The armament and military equipment of the USSR (Russia) supplied to the Arabs is inferior to the American, armed with the Israeli army.
    3. The state of the military-industrial complex and science in Russia is so deplorable that without "their" help, we cannot get it out of it ...
    4. Support of the world financial circles and the G7 in exchange for "flawed" Syria
    All this should push us, the Russians, to revise our strategic partnerships in the Middle East. In favor of a more valuable step-by-step (mother-mother) Jewish brother who timely vacated us soviet living space ...
    The question is, where were you before, "brothers in mind", when there was no smell of Syrian "fried" in your hut and dollars in our wallet?