Military Review

Why have you delayed the implementation of the state armaments program?

64
As Russian news agencies have already managed to inform, the Russian Ministry of Finance and the Ministry of Defense have agreed to shift the deadlines for financing a certain part of the state armaments program. Now the production segment that was supposed to be financed and bear fruit in the 2014-2016 years will be financed with all the ensuing 2017-2018 years. Representatives of the defense ministry immediately noticed that, say, the overall result of the program from such a shift in deadlines will be announced no later than 2020 of the year, as mentioned earlier. They say that the internal roll of the program at a later date does not affect the overall results (and the results are an upgrade of military equipment and weapons by no less than 70%).


Of course, representatives of the Ministry of Defense for such a decision could hang all the dogs, saying that there is pulling rubber, shifting the deadlines and not wanting to take an active part in the implementation of the state program. However, whether the officials from the main military department of the country are to blame for this and only they are a rather controversial issue. The fact is that the movement of dates is clearly not from a better life. The Ministry of Defense is well aware that, given the level of material, technical and personnel equipment of industrial enterprises that is manifested today, unfortunately, it will hardly be possible to implement ambitious plans in a short time. Of course, you can come to the company, waving a sword, punching the table, the plumber or the welder for not being able to cope with the task in time, but not only for locksmiths and welders, the problem.

This problem is of obvious systemic nature. When all the same manufacturing enterprises and their associations collapsed for years and were totally underfunded, either the most enthusiastic enthusiasts remained to work for them, or there were people who got into production due to some kind of misunderstanding. No - today the situation has certainly begun to improve. Qualified specialists began to come to the enterprises, young people appeared, but that personnel and technical failure that was observed since the collapse of the USSR to overcome in 1,5-2 of the year is impossible by definition. Yes, and how to overcome, if the same mechanic at an arms factory receives an average of 15 thousand rubles, and a factory top manager earns a higher salary in 30. The interrupted connection of the laboring generations is a moment with a clearly negative coloration, which even short-term financial injections cannot correct.

The postponement of the implementation of one of the parts of the state armaments program demonstrates problems of a systemic nature. For too long a period of time these problems turned a blind eye, enticing themselves with the hope that Russia had no opponents in the world, and therefore, the renewal of military equipment from the evil one. The lost time has led not only to the fact that the military-technical fleet is outdated by 80-90%, but also to the realization that it is unlikely that it will be possible to upgrade it with what we have with the little finger of our left hand. I tried it with my little finger — it didn’t work, they tried it with my whole left hand — it didn’t work either. ABOUT! Yes, here you need to put pressure on the full program, - and decided on that.

Of course, it was possible not to shift any deadlines - it’s just stupid to put money into enterprises that still need to be brought up to a certain standard, and then shout at all angles that the guys have to cope. But with all the possible performance of those who are directly confronted with the implementation of the program, it is simply impossible to cope without a decent technical and personnel base. You can beat your head against the wall, call upon all the saints, but you need to be at least a little realistic. Timing is, of course, good, but technical potential is also important to keep in mind.

So why didn’t our management initially think about this? Yes, thought, thought, but only promises, often not based on anything, is a disease of any leadership. At first, there are bright slogans that the program will be implemented then, for trillions are invested in it, and then the beginning of long and painful reflections that even trillions sometimes do not save from unresolved problems. Today one thing is clear: there are trillions, but where to send them, and send them so that they earned - once, they don’t have anyone in their pocket - two, allowed them to develop production - three, became the financial base for new military equipment - four, these are still unresolved issues.

Of course, I want to believe that if the program is not able to earn in 2014-16, then in 2018 it will work for sure. But for this you need today not to set deadlines, but to begin work. And this job is not only in the maintenance of a specific industrial complex (taken separately), but in the development of the entire system. The system is a long way: from young nails (from the student's bench) to an experienced employee, to the head of the enterprise who is looking for his business.
Updating military vehicles on 70% by 2020 should pull several areas at once.

This and the creation of a high-quality educational environment, which is not just brewed in its own juice, but has the ability to rely on practical options for applying the knowledge and skills of graduates (practical means in real developing enterprises, and not in the form of documents with linden stamps about the work experience of students which in fact can not distinguish between shovels and calipers).

This and new factory equipment, which also still need to take somewhere. Let initially and abroad, but what to do, if at many factories people work still on Soviet lathes, which were assembled at the dawn of the Khrushchev "thaw". The machines, of course, are good, strong - no one argues, but is it possible to renew the military-technical segment in the XXI century on a machine with half a century of experience? .. It is a rhetorical question.

This and high-quality personnel work. Not the work in which the head of the enterprise is forced to recruit people to the production facilities literally from the street, without work experience, without specialized education, but work when decent money is paid for decent professional work.

In general, a shift in deadlines is a process that has matured long ago. It was literally laid down in the program initially. But with all the negative aspects, a grain of positive is also visible here: the Ministry of Defense was not afraid to say that the program could not be implemented within the originally set deadlines for the reasons mentioned. But, as it often happened, they could have remained silent - to receive money from the Ministry of Finance, send it to the pipe, and then explain for a long time why in the military units instead of new tanks and the armored personnel carriers are old, painted with fresh paint ... There is one more positive moment: if you decide to move the deadlines and announce it to the public, it means that systematic work is really underway - it’s difficult, with a rattle and clang, but it’s being done. Indeed, otherwise, we would not have known about any shift in terms: they say that the money has been spent, the equipment has been made. Where's she? - ask. - It is being tested at top-secret landfills ...
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  1. Manager
    Manager 21 June 2013 09: 18
    +9
    In any case, one way or another, it is first necessary to prepare FACTORIES and FACTORIES. Next, hire professionals. And then proceed. But then the question? While there is no funding and everything is getting better, what do they think the experts are ready to work for food? In general, everything is as always through ZhO!
    1. alexkross83
      alexkross83 21 June 2013 12: 02
      -1
      The troops began to be equipped with the equipment necessary to deter a probable enemy and cool his aggressive fervor, it is clear in the political arena that they began to listen to us, and this is a breakthrough, otherwise you are right.
      1. nycsson
        nycsson 22 June 2013 19: 34
        -1
        Quote: alexkross83
        in the political arena it is clear that they began to listen to us

        By the principle: listen, but do it your own way!
    2. Joker
      Joker 21 June 2013 12: 14
      +3
      While there is no funding and everything is getting better, what do they think the specialists are ready to work for food?

      There are overseas orders. We don’t buy rifles from ORSIS, they sell them abroad, so they live, and our specialists bring authority to them at competitions.
      1. aviamed90
        aviamed90 21 June 2013 12: 26
        0
        And what, after this statement by the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of Finance, are the boastful statements of "high officials" about the timing of the implementation of the state armaments program?

        Or a shift in the timing of the implementation of the state program was also provided for by the state program?
        1. nycsson
          nycsson 22 June 2013 19: 39
          0
          Quote: aviamed90
          Or a shift in the timing of the implementation of the state program was also provided for by the state program?

          The state program provides for hanging noodles on the ears of Russian citizens! You can start shooting it! wassat
          I am simply amazed, not having production capacities, not having the necessary number of working specialists to concoct such a rearmament program for the Russian army. request
      2. Russ69
        Russ69 21 June 2013 13: 05
        -2
        Quote: Joker
        Look, we don’t buy rifles from ORSIS, so they sell them abroad, so they live, and our specialists bring authority to them at competitions.

        Our rifle is ready to buy, but then, when the release of ammunition in Russia is established.
        1. Mikhail3
          Mikhail3 21 June 2013 16: 38
          +2
          And who will establish it? Manufacturer of rifles? Ingenious! Fit millions (which you don’t have) and then MO will lazily say - we changed our minds ... they will do it in Italy! And you will remain with loans, but without pants ...
    3. Ascetic
      Ascetic 21 June 2013 12: 27
      +8
      Quote: Manager
      But then the question? While there is no funding and everything is getting better, what do they think the experts are ready to work for food? In general, everything is as always through ZhO!


      Do you think everything is so simple ... To replace Medvedev, the world financial and trade behind the scenes is preparing Kudrin, who has already stated that defense spending should be reduced by 3%, respectively, increasing the costs of infrastructure and medicine by the same percentage. They are afraid of strengthening Russia's military might. In our country, according to Anatoly Wasserman, the global confrontation between producers and traders has been brought to an extreme. Simply put, an industrialist (production worker) is interested in the development of his country, since he earns on what the country produces. The merchant does not care what is happening with the country: what difference does it make what and where to sell if only there is a profit. Now the production workers are grouping around Putin, and the merchants around Medvedev. With the resignation of Medvedev and the arrival of Kudrin, they will again try to take a liberal revenge, as they tried under the leadership of Chubais in 2010. While "traders"-speculators and financiers-bankers play a significant role in the leadership, we will constantly observe hidden sabotage and disruption of state programs in terms of the timing and amount of financing
      1. pensioner
        pensioner 21 June 2013 12: 45
        +3
        Good afternoon Ascetic! Bursting. Yesterday I went to my factory on business. yo mine! Did not recognize!! Everything is clean, the equipment is new! Salaries - in! Around the youth! Orders - 5 years for sure. Countries lined up for ... 0! It’s a pity they won’t take it back ... Otherwise, the youth would have taught how to use alcohol properly ... In general, the shifts compared to the beginning of 2000 are simply colossal !! I was glad from the heart. With me, another forum member was - confirm.
        1. Airman
          Airman 21 June 2013 12: 50
          -1
          Quote: retired
          Good afternoon Ascetic! Bursting. Yesterday I went to my factory on business. yo mine! Did not recognize!! Everything is clean, the equipment is new! Salaries - in! Around the youth! Orders - 5 years for sure. Countries lined up for ... 0! It’s a pity they won’t take it back ... Otherwise, the youth would have taught how to use alcohol properly ... In general, the shifts compared to the beginning of 2000 are simply colossal !! I was glad from the heart. With me, another forum member was - confirm.


          Yuri, what factory were you in Yekaterinburg?
          1. pensioner
            pensioner 21 June 2013 13: 02
            +1
            Yes, as if ... I would not want to ... Still, a secure enterprise ... From Yekaterinburg?
            1. Airman
              Airman 21 June 2013 14: 06
              0
              Quote: retired
              Yes, as if ... I would not want to ... Still, a secure enterprise ... From Yekaterinburg?


              I read. + to you.
        2. Manager
          Manager 21 June 2013 13: 54
          +1
          Quote: retired
          . Yesterday I went to my factory on business. yo mine

          I myself live in the science city of Zelenograd (the Moscow region, beyond the Moscow Ring Road, km 16, I don’t remember exactly). So, here all the enterprises are overloaded with orders. But damn, I tried on one scientist, almost everything goes abroad. He was especially pleased when he talked about one innovation, a patent, or what it is called for 5 years, which was bought by HTC (a telephone, it makes tablets). So I got fucked at that moment. Say what it was he who didn’t tell me, and I didn’t ask, otherwise they will take me for a spy))). But as he said, if we had bought ours, then our mobile phones, for twenty years ... they would have stepped in front of everyone. Here it is. So downloaded then downloaded, but not to your home country. Home country tries nothing at all as it turns out.
          1. pensioner
            pensioner 21 June 2013 14: 04
            +1
            Quote: Manager
            So downloaded then downloaded, but not to your home country. Home country tries nothing at all as it turns out.


            Gets, gets. Don’t worry ... And Zelenograd is Cool !!
          2. nycsson
            nycsson 22 June 2013 19: 45
            0
            Quote: Manager
            Home country tries nothing at all as it turns out.

            The "management" doesn't need anything! Enterprises survive as best they can! Fleeing foreign orders! Thank God Russia has not lost its minds!
          3. aetaranov
            aetaranov 24 June 2013 20: 30
            0
            In our country, with such a system of taxation, it is unprofitable for enterprises to work, therefore this year, for example, more than 400 thousand small enterprises were closed, and this is only the beginning. Everyone goes underground.
        3. aetaranov
          aetaranov 24 June 2013 20: 31
          0
          rare good news
    4. 101
      101 21 June 2013 23: 14
      +1
      and the worker always worked for food. No, of course he worked for money, but actually for food. And there is no need for examples of what a worker gets 40-50-70 thousand. True, it's -15-25
      1. 101
        101 21 June 2013 23: 31
        +1
        15-25 good 10-15 tolerant
    5. nycsson
      nycsson 22 June 2013 19: 30
      +1
      He laughed heartily! laughing I did not expect such agility from our "leadership"! wassat Just a couple of months ago, we all together discussed the Napoleonic plans for the 2020 GOZ ..... As always, it did not work, it did not work out, there were no guilty ..... crying
    6. aetaranov
      aetaranov 24 June 2013 20: 33
      0
      and at the same time to prepare specialists who will work at these new enterprises. And for this it is necessary to train teachers who can train specialists who are able to work on new equipment ...
  2. Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 21 June 2013 09: 18
    +3
    All right, a stupid injection of money can only end with "Serdyukovism." Our defense industry is like a concentration camp, one skeleton remained after the 90s, we need a little bit.
    1. Truffoff
      Truffoff 21 June 2013 11: 20
      +2
      Quote: Standard Oil
      Our defense industry is like from a concentration camp, one skeleton after the 90s remained, we need a little bit.

      How many billions of dollars in sales are made?
      This is for us a little bit. And the rest "delivery according to the schedule".
      1. Joker
        Joker 21 June 2013 12: 12
        +2
        This is for us a little bit. And the rest "delivery according to the schedule".

        Production collapsed, and if the tank used to cost one price, now it costs more, since it’s almost a piece of production, there’s nothing to do with it, everything is old, so you need to restore production lines, recruit new employees and all this is done by foreign customers. The larger the batch, the more the product becomes cheaper in the end, it is more expensive for customers, then cheaper for themselves, and that’s all the logic. SU-35 will begin to push abroad, there will be large orders, the plane for us will become cheaper, and this is a saving.
        1. Truffoff
          Truffoff 21 June 2013 12: 30
          0
          Quote: Joker
          Production collapsed

          At KNAAPO during the war, 3 bombers per day were made. In Komsomolsk-on-Amur.
          Almost off the beaten track. Infrastructure zero! The plant was built in 1 year. FROM SCRATCH!!
          Hands out of the ass just grow.In general, they will not be paid a salary until they learn to work. And why is it "at the expense of foreign customers?"
          And where are 20 trillion delhi? Already passed .. have you?
          1. Russ69
            Russ69 21 June 2013 13: 09
            +1
            Quote: Truffoff
            At KNAAPO during the war, 3 bombers per day did.

            Firstly, war was done to increase production, everything possible.
            And most importantly, the bomber of the 40s does not stand in any comparison in labor hours, with any modern aircraft.
            Nevertheless, comparable things must be compared.
            1. Truffoff
              Truffoff 21 June 2013 13: 15
              +1
              Quote: Russ69
              Nevertheless, comparable things must be compared.

              And what do they still make modern airplanes on the same equipment?
              1. Joker
                Joker 21 June 2013 14: 43
                +1
                And what do they still make modern airplanes on the same equipment?

                It is possible and so to say laughing You look at Izhmash, there 40-ies especially nothing has changed, how to work with hammers, and work.
    2. nycsson
      nycsson 22 June 2013 19: 49
      0
      Quote: Standard Oil
      stupid injection of money

      And what else can you call it?
      Quote: Standard Oil
      can only end with "Serdyukovism"

      It will be so! It is necessary to train highly moral managers-patriots! Without this, all to no avail!
  3. Garrin
    Garrin 21 June 2013 09: 31
    +8
    While the oligarchs and natural state. monopolies will not moderate their appetites, the deadlines can be endless, and given the crazy level of corruption and embezzlement of the state, the tasks set can be considered practically impossible.
    1. cartridge
      cartridge 21 June 2013 10: 58
      +4
      it’s just stupid to push money into enterprises, which themselves still need to be brought to a certain condition, and then shout at all angles that the guys have to cope.


      There is one more point of positive: if the deadlines have been decided to postpone and announce this to the public, it means that systematic work is really underway - it’s difficult, with a rattle and clang, but it’s underway. Indeed, otherwise, we would not have known about any shift in terms: they say that the money has been spent, the equipment has been made. Where is she? - ask. - It is being tested at top-secret landfills ...


      Correct solution. We must not spoil the fever with financing, but first prepare the enterprise. As an example, take at least our Obukhov plant!
      First, all the sites previously scattered throughout Peter were united. Then they radically rebuilt the workshops, upgraded the in-plant infrastructure, filled the workshops with the latest state-of-the-art equipment and at the same time searched, trained and retrained several thousand workers.
      As a result, the series includes the S-400, R&D on the S-500 is successfully going on, and the first Vityaz is produced!
      It is with such an algorithm that we must work with all suppliers of weapons and military equipment, and not just transfer money to them!
  4. valokordin
    valokordin 21 June 2013 09: 32
    +2
    Moving the deadlines is a beautiful piece of paper in which the crime is wrapped up - not fulfilling the order of the assignment to fulfill the defense order. How would I.V. Stalin regard these - move, move, push, push back, push the timeline.
    1. kosmos84
      kosmos84 21 June 2013 09: 55
      +2
      would move my head
    2. Airman
      Airman 21 June 2013 11: 07
      +1
      Quote: valokordin
      Moving the deadlines is a beautiful piece of paper in which the crime is wrapped up - not fulfilling the order of the assignment to fulfill the defense order. How would I.V. Stalin regard these - move, move, push, push back, push the timeline.


      I already wrote that our defense industry works for EXPORT, supplies to the Russian Armed Forces are carried out according to the "leftover" principle. Until we put the security of Russia at the forefront, equipping OUR armed forces in the FIRST TIME, the dates will be postponed.
      1. Truffoff
        Truffoff 21 June 2013 11: 22
        0
        Quote: Povshnik
        I already wrote that our defense industry works for EXPORT

        Here is the answer to the news that the deadlines have been shifted.
        It is not clear why the calculations for dollars are being conducted.
        1. Airman
          Airman 21 June 2013 12: 28
          -1
          Quote: Truffoff
          Quote: Povshnik
          I already wrote that our defense industry works for EXPORT

          Here is the answer to the news that the deadlines have been shifted.
          It is not clear why the calculations for dollars are being conducted.


          But not for rubles. When ordering, the dollar exchange rate was 30 rubles, when calculating the rate became 32 rubles. The difference is in your pocket.
          1. Truffoff
            Truffoff 21 June 2013 12: 41
            0
            Quote: Povshnik
            But not for rubles. When ordering, the dollar exchange rate was 30 rubles, when calculating the rate became 32 rubles. The difference is in your pocket.

            And if the buck p ... c?
            1. Airman
              Airman 21 June 2013 12: 47
              -2
              [quote = Truffoff]. [/ quote]
              And if the buck p..ts? [/ Quote]

              So they will suck paw.
      2. Joker
        Joker 21 June 2013 12: 20
        +1
        I already wrote that our defense industry works for EXPORT, supplies to the Russian Armed Forces are carried out according to the "leftover" principle.

        And here is not true, all orders that were from the state were fulfilled, large orders were transferred and scattered over the years. And about the export, well, let's not sell anything and give up profits. What do we sell to others and do not buy ourselves? We are buying the same planes if you are talking about bmp-3 Azeri, which is better than ours, so we are waiting for a new BMP. This year a lot of things went to the troops. I would certainly like more, but take a look at the USA, they also sell more than they buy for themselves and don’t complain about anything. As long as there is foreign demand, you need to sell, money is not superfluous, besides, you can modernize enterprises at someone else’s expense.
        1. Truffoff
          Truffoff 21 June 2013 12: 37
          0
          Quote: Joker
          but look at the USA, they also sell more than they buy

          The Africans have nowhere to do this good. And with us?
          T-72, Su-27. And for export, look like what a cool pepper I am, BUSINESSMAN, and myself in torn pants. In the latter.
          And he carefully folds the surplus into a bottle. He buys fantasts.
          Dol ... fuck.
    3. Shadowcat
      Shadowcat 22 June 2013 00: 26
      +1
      How how...
      We read Comrade Stalin's speech in a report on February 4, 1931.
      He there just sums up the intermediate result of the first five-year plan (1928-1933), I think the time has passed, the concept has not changed.
  5. Trofimov174
    Trofimov174 21 June 2013 09: 59
    +1
    Not scary. The main thing is that the magic figure of the final transition of the Russian army to new rails "2020" has not changed. Now it is more important to hedge the economy against the second wave of the crisis, which they started talking about when bad news began to come from the east. The worst thing, namely the presence of 28 trillion rubles in the hands of Serdyukov, is already over, it simply cannot be worse))
    1. aviamed90
      aviamed90 21 June 2013 12: 29
      0
      Trofimov174

      Your quote:
      "It's not scary. The main thing is that the magic figure of the final transition of the Russian army to new rails" 2020 "has not changed."

      Are you so sure about this? What is your confidence based on?
      On the facts stated in the article?
      1. Trofimov174
        Trofimov174 21 June 2013 13: 47
        0
        Quote: aviamed90
        On the facts stated in the article?

        Are we discussing something else?
    2. Airman
      Airman 21 June 2013 12: 44
      0
      Quote: Trofimov174
      Not scary. The main thing is that the magic figure of the final transition of the Russian army to new rails "2020" has not changed.)


      Now, here- the magic number 2020 can change dramatically by 2030. And so the task was set very difficult for our military-industrial complex, and with the postponement of re-equipment by 2020 - impossible. Wait and see if we survive.
  6. evgenii67
    evgenii67 21 June 2013 10: 05
    +3
    Hello everyone! No wonder, every year, excuse us for the expression, they try to say ... fuck everywhere, but this site is VO, so in this case it's specifically about "shifts", so let's go: every year, in almost all positions "from sea to sky" there are underdelivery from the planned and every time there are "excuses", and now there are "shifts". Maybe it's just ENOUGH TO STEAL!
  7. Truffoff
    Truffoff 21 June 2013 10: 47
    +2
    Yes, they sold their products, how many contracts have they signed with the letter "E"? That is why they do not have time, they will build for others.
  8. Rakti-kali
    Rakti-kali 21 June 2013 10: 59
    +6
    Aircraft picker Initial professional Permanent 1 change Salary 7000-8000 r.
    Gluer for power fittings and soft tanks. Initial professional Permanent 1 change Salary 15000r. Harmful working conditions. 325th aircraft repair plant. How many of you would go to work for such a salary or would you like to study this profession?
    In general, it would be nice to do this: postpone the deadlines - they shot the relevant ministers and directors.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. cartridge
        cartridge 21 June 2013 16: 35
        0
        Almaz-Antey Air Defense Concern OJSC GOZ Obukhov Plant requires

        Turner-boring machine for CNC machine from 60 000 rubles.

        Experience: 3-5 years
        Education: secondary special
        Schedule: full time
        Requirements: knowledge and experience on CNC machines
        Experience from 2 years
        the presence of citizenship of the Russian Federation whether Belarus

        Responsibilities: work on a horizontal boring machine Heidenhain 530

        Requirements:
        official registration
        Mon-Fri from 7:20 a.m. to 16:00 p.m.
        competitive social package
        nonresident we provide a hostel
        1. cartridge
          cartridge 21 June 2013 16: 38
          0
          Almaz-Antey Air Defense Concern OJSC GOZ Obukhov Plant requires

          Leading specialist 36 - 000 rubles.

          Experience: up to 2 years
          Higher education
          Schedule: full time

          Requirements:
          higher education (economics ‚finance‚ jurisprudence)

          confident PC user (MS Office)
          work experience about 1 year

          Duties:
          development and execution in the services of the enterprise of contractual and price materials (contracts, supplementary agreements, price protocols, costing);
          cost calculation at the stages of planning and delivery of completed work;
          Negotiating and business correspondence with Counterparties ‚VP MO RF

          Requirements:
          five-day working week from 08.00 to 16.40
          trial period 3 months
          "white" wages
          social package
          1. cartridge
            cartridge 21 June 2013 16: 42
            0
            Almaz-Antey Air Defense Concern OJSC GOZ Obukhov Plant requires

            MILLER 5-6 category from 40 000 rubles
            Requirements:
            work experience on milling machines with indication
            the presence of a qualification category of at least 5th
            Only residents of the Russian Federation and Belarus are accepted for consideration.
            Duties:
            work on NEW machines with indication
            Requirements:
            shift schedule 3/3 for 12 hours;
            a hostel is provided to nonresidents;
            regular payments ‚" white "salary
            competitive social package
            1. cartridge
              cartridge 21 June 2013 16: 42
              0
              Almaz-Antey Air Defense Concern OJSC GOZ Obukhov Plant requires

              Hydraulic from 38 000 rubles
              The operator of CNC machines from 30 000 rubles
              Leading industrial engineer for forging from 30 000 rubles
              Drill from 30 000 rubles
              Operator-adjuster of CNC machines from 40 000 rubles
          2. Rakti-kali
            Rakti-kali 21 June 2013 19: 33
            +3
            Quote: cartridge
            Almaz-Antey Air Defense Concern OJSC GOZ Obukhov Plant requires

            It is wonderful that the plant needs workers, and the salary is not bad (although not so attractive for Peter, given that the average salary there is about 32.000 rubles), but the requirements in the vacancies you mentioned are serious - only experienced workers are needed , professionals who already often have high-paying jobs. Just another 10 - 15 years will pass and there will be no one to work at all, because among the youth "idiots are dumb" to go to the plant for 10 thousand a month, when he will "beat off" his "half a hundred pieces" without straining as a sales representative.
            Z. Y. "Idiots are dumb" to go to the plant for 10 thousand a month, when he will "beat off" his "thirty pieces" without straining. - from the words of the year before last graduate of the Aviation College named after V.M. Petlyakov., now working as a sales representative for the company producing beer.
            Z.Z.Y. And believe me, 10.000 rubles, this is not the smallest salary there, in the design bureau of the Beriev Association, a couple of years ago (I don’t know now) the girls of the calculator and the PC / drawing operator received 5000-6000 rubles each.
            Z.Z.Z.Y. And when you read this, in general, the hair on your head begins to move: - "As a result of the work of the commission, the heads of 36 enterprises in the city and 22 individual entrepreneurs have increased the average monthly wages of workers to the level established by the trilateral Agreement of the Rostov region (5797 rubles)."
            1. cartridge
              cartridge 21 June 2013 19: 59
              0
              ... the requirements in the vacancies you mentioned are serious - only experienced workers are needed, professionals ...


              People who know how to do something with their own hands are always needed. Especially at such a vital production for the country yes
              Depending on the bonus, a worker can receive up to 80 rubles depending on the specialty, qualification, urgency and secrecy of the work performed.
              These are the people and their skills that our country can truly be proud of. good

              It’s only the creaks who imagine themselves to be the salt of the earth, but in fact this swamp fertilizer costs a penny per wagon. negative
              1. M. Peter
                M. Peter 21 June 2013 20: 57
                +3
                Quote: cartridge
                People who know how to do something with their own hands are always needed. Especially at such a vital production for the country

                You understand the problem is that, in all the quotations of vacancies quoted by you, there is such the presence of a qualification category of at least 5thDo you know what this means when in the country there are practically no vocational schools and technical schools training workers? That in 10-15 years, the Chinese people will come to us, because they don’t cook their own, because the young people don’t go because of the fact that when he is employed he is not yet a specialist and his rank is at most 2, so his salary is far from average there are 35-40 thousand rubles, and only 15-17 thousand rubles. In the meantime, he will gain both a discharge and just a hand, because he will also be eager to go to a cafe with a girl, to hang out in a movie and a club, and with such ZP where there. So here comes the young man, not vocational schools, which are no longer there, but as it was written by others above to put merchandisers, chips and beer on the shelves in stores. Here, after all, some kind of vicious circle turns out ... recourse
                I myself work at the plant, albeit not at the defense, but I know and understand the problems of the current production.
                Okay, some factories, for example those associated with Russian Railways, have come to the conclusion that they themselves have become self-sufficient in their own educational institutions, began to conclude contracts with universities and colleges, but there is another hidden problem, "hazing" at the enterprise. The same turner "Uncle Vasya" of the 5th grade will never give a young man his outfits, thanks to which he gets 80 thousand rubles, why? I met with the guys who came to our plant, quitting the aircraft plant (U-UAZ), they say that they say the old people do not teach, they do not put for the machines, they say, go to make molding for 10 kilo rubles a month ...
                In short, a lot of problems.
              2. alexkross83
                alexkross83 23 June 2013 00: 06
                0
                Here are the bog fertilizers and put you down ... because besides how to poke your claw fingers with your crooked fingers, they did nothing else in their lives ... and are not able to ... but to discuss the actions of their superiors ... it's forever ... them to put in these positions, let them make decisions ..
      2. cartridge
        cartridge 21 June 2013 16: 40
        -2
        Social package for an employee of OJSC "GOZ Obukhovsky plant"

        Free examination and treatment at the medical center of the plant.
        Preferential provision of sanatorium vouchers.
        Preferential receipt of passes to the children's health camp.
        Obtaining financial assistance if necessary.
        Getting a cash loan.
        September 01 is a paid working day for women with children under 10 years old.
        Remuneration for long and conscientious work.
        A lump sum in connection with retirement or in connection with the establishment of a disability group without the right to work.
        Paid day in cases of registration of marriage or death of close relatives.
        Preferential purchase of a subscription to the factory’s swimming pool.
        Free provision of a gym.
    2. valokordin
      valokordin 22 June 2013 03: 45
      0
      Quote: Rakti-Kali
      In general, it would be nice to do this: postpone the deadlines - they shot the relevant ministers and directors.

      It is possible and higher, but whoever will do it, only Zhirinovsky, he is capable of
      1. Rakti-kali
        Rakti-kali 22 June 2013 11: 38
        0
        Quote: valokordin
        It is possible and higher, but whoever will do it, only Zhirinovsky, he is capable of

        It’s not worth it above - we’ll go broke in the elections. smile
  9. avant-garde
    avant-garde 21 June 2013 11: 05
    -1
    Why have you delayed the implementation of the state armaments program?
    ______________
    By the fact that when she was making up the Minister of Defense was Perduk and Co. !!!
    1. sashka
      sashka 21 June 2013 11: 21
      +1
      Quote: avant-garde
      By the fact that when she was making up the Minister of Defense was Perduk and Co. !!!

      But is there a Supreme Commander? And part-time President .. And where is Serdyuk? I do not see the logic.
      1. avant-garde
        avant-garde 21 June 2013 11: 27
        +1
        The VGK only approves the GPV, but doesn’t do it like that, it is engaged in this by the RF Ministry of Defense, and the Minister of Defense is responsible for the implementation of the GPV, and since he (perdyukov) scored on this program, he could not compromise with the industry at prices, although it was easier for him buy abroad from that and the dates are shifted !!
        1. sashka
          sashka 21 June 2013 11: 34
          0
          I agree with you. But I DO NOT SEE the logics. Events cannot happen by themselves. We create them ourselves. What do we want? Where is the goal you want to strive for? This, after all, is not .. Where it will bring it and how it will turn out .. Strange policy ..
          1. avant-garde
            avant-garde 21 June 2013 12: 10
            +1
            Quote: Sasha
            Where is the goal you want to strive for?

            Teska once you agree with me that the Minister of Defense is responsible for the GPV, then I have a question, and what did Perdyukov aim to create a combat-ready army ??? I think we want to sleep peacefully and do our best for this. But people like this only want material wealth for themselves, since he knows very well that he shouldn’t go to the front and who will win and how many people will die.
            1. aviamed90
              aviamed90 21 June 2013 12: 35
              +1
              vanguard

              Your quote:
              "... the Minister of Defense is responsible for the GPV, that's when I have a question, what was Perdukov's goal to create an efficient army ???"

              Then, logically, a question arises to the Supreme Civil Code according to your own scheme: "and that the president had a goal to create an efficient army ???"

              Why doesn’t anyone ask him?
              1. avant-garde
                avant-garde 21 June 2013 12: 44
                0
                Quote: aviamed90
                Then, logically, a question arises to the Supreme Civil Code according to your own scheme: "and that the president had a goal to create an efficient army ???"

                Remember who was the president in 2010!
                1. aviamed90
                  aviamed90 21 June 2013 13: 25
                  +1
                  vanguard

                  Do you think that Mr. Medvedev was an independent president?
                  In fact, the country was ruled by Putin. And that is a fact.

                  Or is the army being created strictly for the period of the presidential term of this or that gentleman?

                  Then remember - who was the president before Mr. Medvedev!
            2. sashka
              sashka 21 June 2013 20: 55
              0
              So after all the re-elections. The goal and still do not see. Chatter, nothing more ..
          2. valokordin
            valokordin 22 June 2013 03: 47
            0
            Quote: Sasha
            Where is the goal you want to strive for? This, after all, is not .. Where it will bring it and how it will turn out .. Strange policy ..

            The goal of communism is aimed at him for 96 years.
    2. Truffoff
      Truffoff 21 June 2013 11: 28
      +2
      Because the American plan for the rearmament of our army is working. laughing . They buy the products of our defense industry for candy wrappers, and we carry these wrappers in a stub. fund.That is, we return to the Amrekans. And the factories during this action sing a distracting mantra about the technology behind.
      1. sashka
        sashka 21 June 2013 11: 43
        0
        Well, what does all this tinsel have to do with Americans and Europe? Let's think about ourselves? What do we care about them? There are a lot of them and us.
  10. sashka
    sashka 21 June 2013 11: 10
    +5
    Even in the Second World War, they destroyed less .. In Engels such strategic production was ruined .. Well, where to look for Enemies .. The answer is obvious. And do not blame the popular front .. And the liberals .. They turned their own hands .. And the Great Pu has nothing to do with it . Just stood nearby .. He is the Guarantor, though it is unknown what .. Do you suppose the Jewish people? Oil and Gas, keywords. You can’t argue against ..
    1. Mr. Gambu4aS
      Mr. Gambu4aS 21 June 2013 11: 54
      +3
      You speak the truth, but only the people invented those guilty of all sins, like Serdyukov, because Serdyukov is a defeat of the state system, as Gorbachev and Yeltsin were, these kind of put it mildly "crooks" did not appear just like that, they would not appear, we would see other figures, in general, as long as the system is as it is now, nothing will change but do not rearrange the pawns from place to place, pour more money into the defense industry, but it’s good, only the top will steal more, there’s little for an ordinary hard worker at a defense plant And the great pu is filling himself with the next rating points with all sorts of sumits and loud statements, as they say "people hawala".
  11. ups
    ups 21 June 2013 11: 34
    +1
    Plus to the author for the article, reality should be ahead of the business.
  12. Mozart
    Mozart 21 June 2013 12: 06
    +1
    The reality is simple - no money. Social obligations are growing, but production and government revenues are not. Instead of "doubling GDP", there is a real decline in industrial production. And in a depressed economy where trillions for rearmament come from. Only if you print.
  13. Truffoff
    Truffoff 21 June 2013 12: 11
    +1
    Quote: Mozart
    The reality is simple - no money. Social obligations are growing, but production and government revenues are not. Instead of "doubling GDP", there is a real decline in industrial production. And in a depressed economy where trillions for rearmament come from. Only if you print.

    But what about the $ 500 billion capsule ?? Or are we waiting for the dollar to collapse along with the egg?
    1. sashka
      sashka 21 June 2013 17: 24
      0
      Quote: Truffoff
      But what about the $ 500 billion capsule ?? Or are we waiting for the dollar to collapse along with the egg?

      And there are no more "money boxes". Judging by the reports, they got into debt for the same amount. And again to the Americans. Now the "searches" began, where is Zin's money? And where did the "national treasure" go? Nobody fired Chubais either, despite the fact that the president knows that he worked together with agents of the CIA. It is not yet known who is dancing to whose tune .. Isn't it funny?
  14. creak
    creak 21 June 2013 12: 25
    0
    The article is literate and well-written. I would also add that besides theft, there are also such pretentious projects as the Olympics and the FIFA World Cup. The true costs of their holding are unlikely to ever be announced. And now another fun is the Moscow-Kazan high-speed highway, which is still worth under a trillion rubles. .And this is against the background of how many people we live in uniform slums. The President was forced to draw attention to this problem: "Well, our people should not live in such conditions." And yet show-off is more important than living people? The presence of palaces in Sochi will not make life better for people living in emergency houses.
    Naturally, you don’t need to spare money on defense, and you need to spend it wisely.
    1. M. Peter
      M. Peter 21 June 2013 21: 47
      -1
      And what do you think is purely show-off? Only thanks to these alleged "show-offs" in our city, not a million, over the past two years, the old stadium has been repaired, another new one has been built, with an ice rink, and many more children's sports clubs with sections have been opened, thanks to which the younger generation instead of beer and cigarettes to sports and just join a healthy lifestyle. Come on, it's the fact that at least some of them "we" removed from the street, not like in the 90s, when they were brought up by the street, where many began to spin marijuana, sniff glue, drink and even crime ...

      As for trains, this is also a good thing. Do you know what problems we have on the road? Do you know such a thing as local speed? And what problems does the country have in connection with its small number?
      1. valokordin
        valokordin 22 June 2013 03: 53
        +1
        Quote: M.Pyotr
        As for trains, this is also a good thing. Do you know what problems we have on the road? Do you know such a thing as local speed? And what problems does the country have in connection with its small number?

        You are a good fellow and an optimist, you will live in Sochi and ride football in Kazan.
  15. pinecone
    pinecone 21 June 2013 12: 38
    0
    Quote: Truffoff
    Quote: Mozart
    The reality is simple - no money. Social obligations are growing, but production and government revenues are not. Instead of "doubling GDP", there is a real decline in industrial production. And in a depressed economy where trillions for rearmament come from. Only if you print.

    But what about the $ 500 billion capsule ?? Or are we waiting for the dollar to collapse along with the egg?


    They don’t tell us how much is left in this little bottle, but they take loans abroad.
    1. Airman
      Airman 21 June 2013 13: 01
      0
      Quote: pinecone
      Quote: Truffoff
      Quote: Mozart
      The reality is simple - no money. Social obligations are growing, but production and government revenues are not. Instead of "doubling GDP", there is a real decline in industrial production. And in a depressed economy where trillions for rearmament come from. Only if you print.

      But what about the $ 500 billion capsule ?? Or are we waiting for the dollar to collapse along with the egg?


      They don’t tell us how much is left in this little bottle, but they take loans abroad.


      Yes, there is no longer that little egg, pulled into their pockets, and stalled.
    2. Russ69
      Russ69 21 June 2013 13: 17
      +1
      Quote: pinecone
      How much is left there, they don’t tell us in this little bottle, but they take loans abroad

      It takes not the state, but firms, and this is a completely different calico. Yes, and to take in the West, alas, is 2-3 times more profitable than in our banks.
  16. EGORKA
    EGORKA 21 June 2013 14: 18
    +1
    It seems to me that there is a positive point in this news, the problem has been identified and identified, they begin to solve it, as they decide to see it. There is money and they simply don’t want to spend it irrationally with less return, we decided to fix the problem and then master the allocated funds, you go quieter - You’ll continue, all the more so in the time frame as they write. It’s important that they do everything not through w ...., but wisely.
    1. sashka
      sashka 21 June 2013 18: 11
      +2
      Quote: EGORKA
      .Main thing that they did everything not through w .... but wisely.

      Over the past 20 years, something would not have been done, for some reason, everything was through this place .. It doesn’t work differently. There is United Russia, the Popular Front, And how you stood and are standing. In the stall ..
  17. silver_roman
    silver_roman 21 June 2013 15: 57
    0
    to the author +. everything is correctly identified and defined.
    the problem is indeed a systemic one, but there is such an assumption that the Russian Federation does not have time to develop education first, then military-industrial complex and then get the result at the exit = modern military equipment in large numbers under tight deadlines. Now, and it seems to me, the Russian government knows this, you need to pull up and patch up holes on the basis of what is, because something in the world has moved. The enemy no longer slumbers and does not rejoice after the victory in the BATTLE, BUT NOT WAR (I hope the metaphor is clear). The growth of funds for military spending is growing almost everywhere, and this is despite the fact that some have only survived the crisis, and most are still experiencing it. The dynamics in geopolitics are now unusually active, conflicts in the Middle East, restlessly in the Caucasus, Karabakh, the Caspian Sea can be anything, but Iran is nearby, Mali ... all these are links of one chain. Of course, this does not mean that all related or related industries should not be developed, it’s just that harsh times are coming, and we can’t even suspect their arrival or onset. Perhaps now in Syria the fate of the Caucasus, etc. is partially being decided.
    I’m sure ... or I want to be sure that our people see and predict 10 steps ahead, otherwise we can oversleep the moment when Putin will be a bloody dictator, repressing his people and poor Russians from Dagestan, Ingushetia, Chechnya and other similar areas! soldier
  18. Wiruz
    Wiruz 21 June 2013 16: 23
    +1
    Well again, just decided to re-equip, when suddenly, from behind the bushes, bureaucracy and corruption crawled out in an embrace and slowed down all processes. But from the rostrum everything sounded so beautiful: "The land - to the peasants. The factories - to the workers. Weapons - to the soldiers."
    1. sashka
      sashka 21 June 2013 18: 21
      +2
      Quote: Wiruz
      when suddenly, from behind the bushes, the bureaucracy with corruption got out in an embrace and braked all the processes

      The main thing is not movement, the main thing is the process. Promise and start looking for enemies. The People's Front has already announced who is against us, he is against Russia. To put it bluntly, it doesn’t sound "good", towards a peaceful life. Where are we going? After all, there is no politics as such, neither internal nor external. Chatter and promises, that's all.
      1. Wiruz
        Wiruz 21 June 2013 20: 40
        0
        The Popular Front has already declared who is against us is against Russia

        Well yes. Opposition in Russia has never been welcomed. The main thing is not to get to the bottom of "who is not with us is against us" and "Russia is for the Russians."
  19. Ustian
    Ustian 21 June 2013 16: 28
    0
    Who cares to read- (http://www.dynacon.ru/content/articles/994/) section three. True, the remaining sections are also of interest. Excerpts from the document- (The previous stage of the military reform was given into the hands of a narrow group of the former military leadership, and therefore critically depended on the degree of competence of only a few people.) or (In connection with the foregoing, we consider it necessary to form five military districts: Western (headquarters - Moscow), Volga-Ural (headquarters - Yekaterinburg), North Caucasian (headquarters - Rostov-on-Don), Siberian (headquarters - Irkutsk) . Far (HQ -Khabarovsk) - with the return of staffs fleet management functions on the main strategic directions of command must be established, capable to solve all possible problems: like their own, and taking into account the gain).
  20. Mr. Truth
    Mr. Truth 21 June 2013 20: 17
    0
    Seriously, the rearmament program, at least some OCDs, must be made interdepartmental (FSB, MES, MO, MVD), so as not to produce a bunch of de-equiped equipment and weapons.
  21. runway
    runway 21 June 2013 20: 27
    +1
    The question is very serious. It relates to the country's defense. From year to year, the state defense order is not executed on time. People in high positions were perplexed - what is the reason? Money is allocated .... Then they came to a consensus - the production base was destroyed, inter-production relations were broken, there were no specialists .... Taking into account these shortcomings, the rearmament program of our army was completed until 20, it was planned to allocate about 20 trillion. rubles.
    Now it turns out that there is no money .... Turn off the program when long-term contracts are already signed? This means that those defense enterprises that managed to survive by obtaining long-term orders can order funeral services for themselves. Our guides decided to follow the path they had taken more than once - to extend the deadlines for execution (during this time either the donkey or the sultan will die).
    The most obvious thing is that such a solution does not solve the problem, but is delayed by a disease that many warned about (a decline in hydrocarbon production was brewing, falling prices for them and a general deterioration in economic indicators in the country).
    Against this background, saying that such a situation was planned when drawing up a rearmament program sounds like crazy nonsense. After all, even Putin! assured the country that the program would be completed on time - even nosebleed!
    1. sashka
      sashka 21 June 2013 21: 03
      0
      Quote: piston
      After all, even Putin! assured the country that the program would be completed on time - even nosebleed!

      I agree with you. But these are the allegations. like even Putin. Who is this? Just an errand boy who reads a piece of paper.
  22. valokordin
    valokordin 22 June 2013 03: 55
    0
    Rejoice, amnesty is coming soon.
  23. tomich
    tomich 22 June 2013 11: 56
    +1
    all this is explained simply, money has ALREADY been allocated, the budget has recently been adopted for three years, knowing the cunning inter-budget relations. this money will be stupidly scrolled through banks during this time, you don’t even need to cut anything. They are playing a tale for adults, and the country's leadership, forming a defense order, did not know what state our military-industrial complex is in, that is, he a priori could not execute an order in such a volume, but the money allocated
  24. Chukchi reader
    Chukchi reader 30 June 2013 18: 48
    0
    The article put a minus.
    How not to stop the running bison or the singing Kobzon, so do not stop the writing Volodin ...
    Volodin, you can’t write, don’t write.