Military Review

British engineers declassified 1960-s military development

67
British engineers declassified 1960-s military development

The British defense and aerospace company BAE Systems, the heir to British Aerospace, spoke about its unsuccessful military and civilian developments in the 1960-s.


Among the most interesting, but unsuccessful projects of British designers are the three-step analogue of the Shuttle, jumping armored car, flying platforms for launching aircraft from a height and civilian jet airliners with the possibility of vertical take-off and landing.
BAE Systems has created three-dimensional animation illustrating these projects.

The reusable spacecraft project MUSTARD, created in 1965, turned out to be too advanced for its time. British engineers were going to launch into space three interlinked “flying wings”, two of which, being launch vehicles, returned to Earth after launch, and the third could reach the moon. All three stages could land on specially prepared aerodromes: this is the difference between the development and the Shuttle, which was put into orbit by conventional solid-fuel boosters, which then had to be taken out of the ocean. Only half a century later, similar systems were created for suborbital flights, for example, Virgin Galactic Richard Branson’s SpaceShipTwo.

A leaping armored car at BAE began to develop in the early 1960-s on the order of the British military. It was planned that with the help of 12 vertical takeoff engines, an armored jeep could fly over fairly large obstacles. As a result, the project was closed due to the high cost.

An even more unusual project was the platform for vertical takeoff of the P17D. With the help of 56 jet engines, she could lift cargo or combat aircraft into the air. In fact, using such a platform, the Royal Air Force of Great Britain could get rid of the need for military airfields and launch fighters from forest glades and other small platforms. It was also decided to abandon the project due to its high cost.

Perhaps, one of the most ambitious BAE projects of that time was a jet airliner with the possibility of vertical take-off and landing (VTOL). Such a plane, if it appeared these days, would instantly cause a stir among airlines, but in 1960's, BAE engineers came to the conclusion that the plane would consume too much fuel, and the weight of the lifting engines excessively lowers the center of gravity, making it not sufficiently stable in the air. Apparently, the British engineers with their project wanted to compete with Germany, where in 1960-s they constructed a transport plane with a vertical take-off Dornier Do 31, which also did not go into the series. It was not possible to build passenger and transport aircraft with this concept in the USSR, although interest in this topic does not dry up: in 2004, a resident of the village of Marushkino in the Naro-Fominsky district of the Moscow region Valery Sirotin received a patent for the "Passenger supersonic aircraft with vertical takeoff and landing."

As noted in BAE Systems, developments in the field of VTOL are still used by the corporation, including when working with the F-35 fighter.
Originator:
http://rus.ruvr.ru/
67 comments
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  1. KuigoroZHIK
    KuigoroZHIK 20 June 2013 10: 25 New
    +2
    British genius is dangerous .....
    1. ShturmKGB
      ShturmKGB 20 June 2013 10: 28 New
      +2
      British insidious genius...
      1. Rink
        Rink 20 June 2013 11: 09 New
        +1
        Exactly what is dangerous and insidious.
        Only not everything that is written needs to be believed.
        Read in confirmation http://telegrafist.org/2013/06/18/65820/
      2. GreatRussia
        GreatRussia 20 June 2013 12: 36 New
        +5
        ShturmKGB
        British cunning genius ...

        Quote: Kuygorozhik

        why make people laugh or scare?


        You can come to fame in different ways, as modern British scientists have proved, having earned this well-deserved "fame"



        http://ru.science.wikia.com/wiki/%D0%A8%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%B
        2%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%8F
    2. rolik
      rolik 20 June 2013 10: 57 New
      +3
      Quote: Kuygorozhik
      British genius is dangerous .....

      And if our declassified projects are declassified (those of which we do not know) ???
      1. KuigoroZHIK
        KuigoroZHIK 20 June 2013 11: 35 New
        +3
        Quote: rolik
        And if our declassified projects are declassified (those of which we do not know) ???


        why make people laugh or scare? The point is not what the flight of engineering was, the point is that some things should not be published and, moreover, it is not worth creating 3D animation to display unsuccessful projects.
    3. Quiet
      Quiet 20 June 2013 11: 29 New
      26
      British engineers declassified 1960-s military development fellow wassat laughing lol

      If our own are declassified in the 60s, the whole world will tremble and everyone will turn white with horror, even blacks and Japanese wassat

      In those years in the “Pioneer Houses” we had guys in the “Young Technician” mugs SUCH doing that their silicone valleys and other sharags still do not even dream of nightmares ... wassat belay fool bully
      1. aviator_IAS
        aviator_IAS 20 June 2013 14: 37 New
        +7
        Quote: Quiet
        In those years, in the “Pioneer Houses”, the guys in the “Young Technician” mugs SUGGESTED that their silicone valleys and other sharags still do not even dream of nightmares


        I know, I did it myself. One of the projects implemented was a completely flying ultralight aircraft with an engine from a fire engine pump. In winter, the plane was put on skis and drove along the ice of the river in the city center, as on a snowmobile (without a wing). The people were in shock belay I still wonder how much the Soviet state invested in the development of children's technical creativity. This is not Skolkovo for you! Who does not know google NTTM (Scientific and technical creativity of youth).
        And in the 80s we rode along the corridors of the pioneer palace on an electric car. True, he worked from the outlet smile .
        1. zart_arn
          zart_arn 20 June 2013 18: 19 New
          +3
          how much was invested by the Soviet state in the development of children's technical creativity. This is not Skolkovo for you!
          This is the secret of the Soviet genius - we all come from childhood, all the great inventions and discoveries begin there and if the current state does not want to invest in childhood, then this state has no future.
      2. zvereok
        zvereok 20 June 2013 21: 54 New
        0
        Starting from Tanks-Aircraft and ending with APCs submarines ... By the way, for me, the second is not so stupid.
    4. Anat1974
      Anat1974 20 June 2013 14: 07 New
      +1
      (I must add) .... for the British.
  2. True
    True 20 June 2013 10: 36 New
    +7
    Madhouse. And what is this platform with an airplane? Why is it needed at all? Matryoshka? She takes off the platform, then the plane from her, the rocket from the plane, right?) Grandma for grandfather ...
    1. Rink
      Rink 20 June 2013 11: 13 New
      +5
      Quote: True
      Madhouse. And what is this platform with an airplane? Why is it needed at all? Matryoshka? She takes off the platform, then the plane from her, the rocket from the plane, right?) Grandma for grandfather ...

      So it’s said, "unsuccessful projects "of past years. They therefore became unsuccessful because a madhouse.

      PS Only the British can brag about the stupidity of their engineers. What is there to be proud of, what to admire ?! But now, they try to PR even on their failures ..

      By the way, if Russia had laid out its unsuccessful projects, I think instead of these admired “Oooh!”, There would be some ridicule. Although we had no less ambitious projects. There, the Americans are right now fighting for the RD-170, the "half" of the RD-180 engine from our "unsuccessful" lunar project. How many years have passed, and they still can’t even copy, not that they can create their own analogue!
      1. Renat
        Renat 20 June 2013 11: 46 New
        0
        Recall Mriya. Platform for the start of "Buran".
        1. Quiet
          Quiet 20 June 2013 12: 14 New
          +2
          Recall Mriya. Platform for the start of "Buran".

          Renat !!! The Lord is with you !!! "Buran" could only start from the cosmodrome !!!! Carrier "Energy" !!! belay request . Apparently you confused him with Flipper ??? ... hi
        2. Rink
          Rink 20 June 2013 12: 22 New
          +2
          Quote: Renat
          Recall Mriya. Platform for the start of "Buran".

          Also a unique project, though it is hardly worth considering as unsuccessful. Failure befell the USSR, not the Buran project.

          The Mriya was used to transport the Buran and parts of its launch vehicle. And during the tests, she lifted and dropped a full-size model of the Buran with the engines turned off, to test its aerobatic abilities in planning.

          In general, the idea of ​​an air launch was in the air quite a while, and almost all the main “aircraft-building” states experimented with it. At least R&D was done.
          1. aviator_IAS
            aviator_IAS 20 June 2013 15: 17 New
            +2
            Quote: Skating rink
            And during the tests, she lifted and dropped a full-size model of the Buran with the engines turned off, to test its aerobatic abilities in planning.


            No Buranas were dropped from Mriya. BTS-001 OK-ML-1 (product 0.01) was used to test the air transportation of the orbital complex. For flight tests used BTS-002 OK-GLI (product 0.02). He took off on his own. Personally, he felt it at the MAX. Excessively inquisitive people picked a lining with a finger and wondered: How could this foam plastic miracle fly into space? They did not know that on this instance thermal insulation (very expensive) was not needed. Instead, imitation was established. The one that was rolled on Mriya stands in Gorky Park, and the BTS-002 was sold to the Germans at the Speyer Museum.
            1. Rink
              Rink 20 June 2013 19: 59 New
              0
              Thanks for clarifying!
    2. Quiet
      Quiet 20 June 2013 12: 10 New
      0
      what is this platform with an airplane? Why is it needed at all? Matryoshka? She takes off the platform, then the plane from her, the rocket from the plane, right?) Grandma for grandfather ...

      Each of them fulfills only what he was paid for !!!
      1. cartridge
        cartridge 20 June 2013 12: 28 New
        +3
        British scientists have created a jumping armored car. Sounds like a joke! laughing
        1. zvereok
          zvereok 20 June 2013 21: 58 New
          0
          It may sound like a joke, but they poked in different directions, just like the United States now, like we did in the days of the USSR, and now our leadership is either so perfect that it always guesses a new trend in military technology, or fills out old trends.
    3. alexkross83
      alexkross83 20 June 2013 12: 53 New
      0
      Just ... hopping ... plane with armored wik ... or ... armored car from plane .. also jumping wassat recourse
      1. Quiet
        Quiet 20 June 2013 13: 30 New
        +1
        Just ... hopping ... plane with armored wik ... or ... armored car from plane .. also jumping

        In general ... both sigat in the bushes after seeing the grenades in the hands of the soldiers .... lol
        1. Igarr
          Igarr 20 June 2013 13: 59 New
          +2
          So, who is imprisoned for what:
          ours developed projects of winged tanks, and even in the 30-40s, projects of aircraft submarines, tracked submarines ...
          Germans - aircraft with guns firing up, sideways. Assault rifles bullets from around the corner;
          Well, the British - high-jumping armored cars ...
          ..
          No, normal information. Failure in such matters is rather even luck ... recognized too costly. So save!
          What would the British do with their jumping armored car on the moon? Jump - and there is no armored car, beyond the orbit of Mars already.
          That's it ..
    4. 11 black
      11 black 20 June 2013 16: 37 New
      0
      Quote: True
      Madhouse. And what is this platform with an airplane? Why is it needed at all? Matryoshka? She takes off the platform, then the plane from her, the rocket from the plane, right?) Grandma for grandfather ...

      And we call xNUMX child prodigy - where is he already up to the British relatives ... laughing
  3. studentmati
    studentmati 20 June 2013 10: 39 New
    +5
    The thought of any designer constantly generates a huge number of the most diverse ideas. And the one who becomes a brilliant designer is who, out of all this diversity, creates the final product, which is embodied in metal and brings real benefits.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  4. Smersh
    Smersh 20 June 2013 10: 41 New
    0
    For our benefit, their project failed ..
    1. Ivan.
      Ivan. 20 June 2013 11: 58 New
      +1
      Quote: Smersh
      For our benefit, their project failed ..

      What is the benefit here? The fact that they abandoned deadlock projects? It’s rather a disaster ...
  5. screw cutter
    screw cutter 20 June 2013 10: 42 New
    +2
    British scientists they are so British / scientists .....
    1. Rink
      Rink 20 June 2013 11: 24 New
      +1
      Quote: screw cutter
      British scientists they are so British / scientists .....

      Once my supervisor, who did not carry the word "scientist" to the spirit, surprised me by drawing a distinction between "scientist" and "learned." A "scientist" is like a senseless thing. Yes taught - a fact. But the other became "learned," and this one ... "unsuccessful project."

      The British make a lot of “pseudo-discoveries”, false achievements flourish. I already provided the link above.
      1. Ivan.
        Ivan. 20 June 2013 12: 06 New
        0
        Quote: Skating rink
        Once my supervisor, who did not carry the word "scientist" to the spirit, surprised me by drawing a distinction between "scientist" and "learned."

        “The scientist cat all goes around the circuit” - this circle can be used to characterize the development data, everything, the fantasy has run out.
  6. svp67
    svp67 20 June 2013 10: 43 New
    0
    A leaping armored car at BAE began to develop in the early 1960-s on the order of the British military. It was planned that with the help of 12 vertical takeoff engines, an armored jeep could fly over fairly large obstacles. As a result, the project was closed due to the high cost.
    Now they want to create something like this for nude airborne forces, it will be interesting to compare ...
    1. True
      True 20 June 2013 10: 50 New
      +3
      Yes, no. In general, nonsense. I imagine how they will be sausage there when jumping))))) It turns out useless golden toilet. Although if the attraction is done ...
  7. LaGlobal
    LaGlobal 20 June 2013 11: 09 New
    0
    I think our scientists were much crazier than the western ones!
    And all
    our declassified projects to declassify (those of which we do not know) ???
  8. Aryan
    Aryan 20 June 2013 11: 15 New
    -1
    And again, not a single word about the boomerang tank
    Navo, he is super secret again bully

    I heard something about the project of the cast-iron bomb
    in folklore in the form of jokes
  9. Vtel
    Vtel 20 June 2013 11: 36 New
    +2
    Also something could and mogem.
    Since 1958, "Tu-135" in OKB-156, initiative work began on a strategic strike aircraft system, close in design parameters to M-56 V.M. Myasishchev.
    By the mid-60s, the design work of the Tu-135 system was finally phased out. The main prerequisites for this were: the Air Force abandoned the concept of a single-mode strategic supersonic carrier aircraft and the transition to the idea of ​​creating a multi-mode universal carrier based on a heavy aircraft with a variable wing sweep
    Description
    Design - Design Bureau A.N. Tupolev
    Designation - "135M"
    Type - strategic supersonic bomber
    Take-off weight, kg - 175000 - 205000
    The number of engines - 4
    Engine - DTRDF NK-6
    Maximum engine thrust, kgf - 23500
    Flight speed, km / h (M =) cruising - 2650 (2,5)
    maximum - 3000 (2,82)
    Practical ceiling, m - 19000-22000
    Practical flight range, km - supersonic (2650 km / h) - 7800-8000
    maximum - 10000
    with 1 refueling - 12000
    subsonic (920 km / h) - 12000-13000
    with 1 refueling - 14000-15000
    at low altitudes - 6000

    Practical range with the Kh-22 missile, km - 4400
    Takeoff run, m - 1800

    weaponry
    Cruise missiles X-22 - 4-6
    X-45 - 2-4
    Ballistic missiles - 2-4
    UR "air-to-air" - 4-6
    Bombs
    1. Igarr
      Igarr 20 June 2013 14: 04 New
      -1
      And where were his ballistic missiles hidden?
      In the keel?
      Or a horizontal take-off ballistic missile? Then it's cool !!!!
      1. aviator_IAS
        aviator_IAS 20 June 2013 22: 47 New
        0
        Indeed they were. Only aeroballistic. Wingless rocket air-to-surface horizontal launch. After the start, it flies along a ballistic trajectory, that is, it does not use aerodynamic lift. Examples: X-15 and AGM-69 SRAM.
    2. ded10041948
      ded10041948 20 June 2013 16: 05 New
      0
      Due to the development of this project, the finished T-4 Sukhoi was closed!
  10. Astrey
    Astrey 20 June 2013 11: 42 New
    0
    "a resident of the village Marushkino of the Naro-Fominsk district of the Moscow region Valery Sirotin"

    Mdya alone, the father put in the belt of "British scientists." I am proud!
    The lack of knowledge of British concepts is the flip side of their originality. After all, the Britons have a mega-reception for increasing the efficiency of scientists. Transfer to another profession from the previous, unproductive. So the British loser-losers are pushing, you need to give birth to at least something to return to the previous status.

    Such a system will not work with us. Tell the domestic creator of uncorruption - for laziness we will send from physicists to biologists - he will be laughing at this subject until retirement.
  11. Simple
    Simple 20 June 2013 11: 48 New
    +2
    Quote: studentmati
    The thought of any designer constantly generates a huge number of the most diverse ideas. And the one who becomes a brilliant designer is who, out of all this diversity, creates the final product, which is embodied in metal and brings real benefits.


    Greetings, Alexander. hi

    And how many more will be ...
  12. slipped
    slipped 20 June 2013 11: 57 New
    0
    Of all the futuristic developments of that time, the British turned out to be a BAC TSR.2 fighter-bomber

    Really handsome!

    here http://www.dogswar.ru/oryjeinaia-ekzotika/aviaciia/6068-istrebitel-bombardir.htm
    l You can read something about him.
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 20 June 2013 12: 41 New
      +1
      Quote: slipped
      Really handsome!

      Yes?
      1. Igarr
        Igarr 20 June 2013 14: 11 New
        +2
        Of course, Vladimir, YES.
        Such a handsome man, such a handsome man.
        Look at this truncated wing line! With a flick of the wrist (pilot), the trousers turn ... the trousers turn ... into stinking rags ...
        It is very valuable - that on board marks are applied. Red is a dozen, blue is also good.
        1. Vladimirets
          Vladimirets 20 June 2013 14: 56 New
          +2
          Quote: Igarr
          Red is a dozen, blue is also good.

          Blue is also an offset.
          1. slipped
            slipped 20 June 2013 15: 17 New
            -4
            But Nitsche, that he has the signs of a modern fifth generation fighter? and years ago ... what then did our generation have, eh?

            I will list (for idiots):
            1. Work on air and land.
            2. Armament in the fuselage.
            3. Elements of invisibility.
            well, etc. etc.
      2. slipped
        slipped 20 June 2013 15: 32 New
        -3
        Yes. Functional and beautiful.
        1. Taoist
          Taoist 20 June 2013 15: 44 New
          +3
          From the point of view of aerodynamics and operational qualities, an extremely ugly car. An attempt to achieve supersonic speeds with relatively low-power engines led to a “midsection” and a very small wing area. As a result, disgusting takeoff and landing characteristics multiplied by an extremely narrow track gauge. British pilots should pray that this miracle of technology did not go into series - otherwise it would be a “flying coffin” worse than the F-104 (also having a similar concept)
          1. slipped
            slipped 20 June 2013 15: 55 New
            -2
            Well, yes on the topic topic - ahead of his time. He would have dual-circuit engines. And so, the quote is “In general, one can speak about many characteristics of the [...] machine only in the“ presumptive mood ”, since the tests were not carried out to the end, and many parameters simply did not have time to confirm." And about the coffins, our Tu-22 then went into the series anyway.
            1. Taoist
              Taoist 20 June 2013 16: 08 New
              0
              Well then, it’s worth remembering rather than the “blinder” ... but the Yak 28 (it is the closest in terms of weight and performance characteristics and is made according to a similar concept) Well, it was created earlier and cost much cheaper, although there generally had to be a bicycle chassis ... It was essentially a dead end "airplane-rocket." But who then could know that? Now when they stepped on a rake in full growth then they started fussing ... Wings of variable geometry were mastered, with additional PD they got confused ...
              1. slipped
                slipped 20 June 2013 16: 48 New
                -1
                Yak-28 was a front-line bomber, and only after a significant alteration of high-altitude interceptor. In fact, 2 different aircraft. In addition, there, by definition, the functionality of a British aircraft was missing.
                1. Taoist
                  Taoist 20 June 2013 16: 58 New
                  +3
                  "Need more brushing" lol
                  What functionality of the "reconnaissance bomber" was missing in the Yak 28?

                  We look closely:
                  Yak-28 first production modification
                  Yak-28B variant with radar Lotus and the Initiative.
                  Yak-28L version with a radio command differential-range ranging guidance system DBS-2С "Lotus".
                  Yak-28and option with an integrated weapons control system consisting of: Initiative-2 radar, optical sight OPB-116 and autopilot AP-28K.

                  Yak-28Н variant with the K-28P weapon system, which included two X-28 anti-radar missiles and control equipment.

                  Yak-28P version of the scout based on the Yak-28.
                  Yak-28RR radiation scout.

                  Yak-28PP plane jammer.

                  Yak-28 training aircraft. NATO Code Designation - Maestro

                  Yak-28P interceptor fighter.

                  Well, can you find at least part of this “functional” in an existing aircraft (unlike the Yak) in the amount of THREE prototypes that did not even have weapons?

                  Learn materiel and you will be happy.
                  1. slipped
                    slipped 20 June 2013 17: 14 New
                    -6
                    Quote: Taoist
                    "Need more brushing" lol
                    What functionality of the "reconnaissance bomber" was missing in the Yak 28?

                    ......

                    Learn materiel and you will be happy.


                    In how, I painted everything - a bunch of different planes for one British. :) You would have to tighten a little sapromat, about quantity and quality, and with your head will learn to think ... too. :) And I know the materiel, only I fly higher than these pepelats.
                    1. Taoist
                      Taoist 20 June 2013 17: 39 New
                      +3
                      So, for reference, withOpromat I studied at a military school which I graduated with an average mark of 4,78 in the specialty "Operation of Aircraft and Blood Pressure." So who flies higher than what ... (at least on the avatar my photo is in my quite legal form) Well, what about the fact that "a bunch of different planes against one British?" I’ll tell you a “terrible secret” - it’s all one plane with only different avionics sets ... As it was, everywhere in the world. A "universal soldier" does not exist, "this is a fantasy son" ...
                      1. slipped
                        slipped 20 June 2013 17: 56 New
                        -3
                        “It’s like Semenych ...” So I have to think with a head - it’s necessary to be able to, the conversation in this topic is about unrealized concepts, and here you offer me a “herring by the fur coat” and your pipiska is longer ...
                      2. Taoist
                        Taoist 20 June 2013 18: 11 New
                        +3
                        That's why you should not praise a plane that did not even really fly. In the British aircraft industry there were quite a lot more successful and interesting developments. Although with a specific "British accent" - but there is such a thing as a "design school." Unrealized concepts are a dime a dozen - there are few successful machines. And it’s all the more not worth it to be rude to the person you are talking to - this, in general, is only talking about your level.
                      3. Igarr
                        Igarr 20 June 2013 18: 37 New
                        +2
                        No, but I liked this young man ...
                        Especially because the quasi-fifth generation bomber ... weapons inside the hull.
                        I then, in simplicity of my soul, thought - over the cockpit will be.
                        But ours, the Petlyakovs and Tupolevs, did not know ...
                      4. slipped
                        slipped 20 June 2013 18: 43 New
                        -3
                        thank you for the young man, my dear :) there is no Google to go about the plane? only know how to chat?
                        Then I will help you, here's a hint, an article http://vremena.takie.org/news/pokolenija_bombardirovshhikov_okonchanie/2013-03-2
                        4-47 read if possible
                      5. Taoist
                        Taoist 20 June 2013 22: 23 New
                        +1
                        Come on, a typical "modern product" - Google has replaced knowledge, the native language is "Albanian", the assessment of technology by the criterion of "I like it" ... God bless him.
                    2. slipped
                      slipped 20 June 2013 18: 46 New
                      -4
                      Quote: Taoist
                      And it’s all the more not worth it to be rude to the person you are talking to - this, in general, is only talking about your level.


                      This first of all speaks of your level, my dear. The fact that I personally like this concept, which side are you on? I do not like it, well, to hell with it, but you don’t need to breed a flood in the topic.
  • Ustian
    Ustian 20 June 2013 12: 02 New
    0
    Quote: Aryan
    in 2004, Valery Sirotin, a resident of the village of Marushkino in the Naro-Fominsk district of the Moscow region, received a patent for "Passenger supersonic aircraft with vertical take-off and landing."

    There are still talents on the Russian land!

    Quote: Aryan
    As a result, the project was closed due to the high cost.

    They think, let the Russians finish it. They will bring to perfection, and then we will steal, buy, lick.
    Quote: Aryan
    It did not work to build passenger and transport aircraft with this concept in the USSR, although interest in this topic does not run low
  • Deniska
    Deniska 20 June 2013 14: 32 New
    0
    The only thing I liked from the article: 3-module shuttle. I don’t know about the high cost, but for the environment a big "+".
    1. slipped
      slipped 20 June 2013 17: 41 New
      +1
      But for the output PN, a big and bold minus is one percent of the total weight of the system. And it’s not so simple with ecology.
  • individual
    individual 20 June 2013 14: 42 New
    0
    Research and development of the creation of new equipment and weapons always have dead-end projects.
    According to the principle, who works is sometimes mistaken.
    You and I recently also considered the "fiery hedgehog of the development of 1944.
    For the researcher there is no unnecessary, always acquired useful experience.
  • starhina01
    starhina01 20 June 2013 14: 47 New
    0
    let them fail but whoever never fell he never rose
  • AIR-ZNAK
    AIR-ZNAK 20 June 2013 15: 24 New
    -1
    somewhere taxpayer money was sawn off, somewhere they really wanted to get ahead of time ... (like our bunch of Energy-Buran, analog-Space Shuttle is somewhere nearby, but only nearby)
  • Diviz
    Diviz 20 June 2013 17: 04 New
    0
    if in the 60s nothing happened then on what in the 2000s they will hold on. Americans will help with the Japanese.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • shinobi
    shinobi 20 June 2013 19: 14 New
    +1
    A little off topic, but maybe vice versa. In short, I downloaded from nostalgic motives a complete binder of the magazine “Youth Technique.” In one of the early 60s there is a description of one device that every furniture collector now has. A pistol grip with removable stings, etc. . Trifle? Of course, a trifle, but only in Germany a patent for this device was registered by BOSH only 5 years later. And there are a whole bunch of such trifles, everyone selectively checked the benefit of Google in the house.
  • evil
    evil 20 June 2013 20: 59 New
    -1
    if yes, if only mushrooms would grow in the mouth, and there would be no mouth but a whole garden