Military Review

Israel will be the first foreign state to adopt the F-35 "Lightning-2" fighter - Lockheed Martin

206
Israel will be the first foreign state to adopt the F-35 "Lightning-2" fighter - Lockheed Martin

Israel will be the first foreign state to adopt the fifth-generation F-35 multi-purpose fighter Lightning-2, said Steve O'Brien, vice president of Lockheed Martin, at the Paris Air Show 2013 at Le Bourget during the Paris Air Show.


According to Israel Hayom, the first aircraft, as planned, will be delivered to Israel at the end of 2016.

In October, 2010, Israel signed a contract worth 2,75 billion to supply a squadron of X-NUMX F-20 fighters as part of the Foreign Military Sales program. According to the schedule, the delivery of aircraft under this contract should begin at the end of 35 of the year - the beginning of 2016 of the year.

The Israeli Air Force plans to begin training pilots in the United States in 2016, which will allow to receive aircraft in the aforementioned terms. The Air Force has already begun work on the creation of new infrastructure-based aircraft F-35.

The second contract will probably provide for the delivery of a similar number of machines. The Israeli government has already approved their acquisition. This means that if the program implementation schedule is respected, by the end of the decade 40 F-35 aircraft can arrive at the Israeli Air Force. Total Israeli Air Force plan to adopt the F-75 fighter 35.

Earlier, the Israeli Air Force sent specialists to the United States for jointly with the US Department of Defense and Lockheed Martin to prepare F-35 configuration for Israel. At the same time, the issue of integrating Israeli technology into fighter equipment was discussed.

In an interview with Israel Hayom, O'Brien reported that Lockheed Martin had examined the feasibility of installing a number of removable parts produced by the Israeli company Cyclone (a subsidiary of Elbit Systems) on the aircraft’s fuselage and concluded that such changes will affect stealth characteristics. In practical terms, this means that the aircraft will have a greater range, remaining invisible to enemy radar.
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  1. svp67
    svp67 20 June 2013 10: 15
    10
    Israel, as always, is among the leaders in the "purchases" of new types of weapons, and it is difficult to come up with a better demonstration platform for American weapons now ...
    1. experienced
      experienced 20 June 2013 10: 17
      14
      Quote: svp67
      Israel, as always, is among the leaders in the "purchases" of new types of weapons, and it is difficult to come up with a better demonstration platform for American weapons now ...

      Do not forget that they are mainly armed with American money. In Israel itself, the budget is now not very good. Recently taxes have risen and there have been unrest and demonstrations.
      1. svp67
        svp67 20 June 2013 11: 28
        +2
        Quote: seasoned
        Do not forget that they are mainly armed with American money.

        Well, for the equipment and equipment of the DEMO site you need to fork out ...
        1. танк
          танк 20 June 2013 13: 04
          +2
          As a result, 3-5 pieces will be bought.
          1. crazyrom
            crazyrom 20 June 2013 20: 45
            +2
            Hehe, I already wrote somewhere, "excellent targets for our S-300 in Syria" wink
      2. Lord of the Sith
        Lord of the Sith 20 June 2013 12: 29
        +5
        There were 100 thousand rallies in connection with the increase in prices for dairy products.
      3. KazaK Bo
        KazaK Bo 20 June 2013 18: 27
        +2
        Quote: seasoned
        Do not forget that they are mainly armed with American money.

        Who has the money in the USA - the Mexicans ... or maybe the Indians? Or maybe the bankers of "Palestinian nationality"? And another thesis - "... whoever gives the president money for his election, he dances it!" Have you heard about it? Therefore, it is not surprising that it is to the Israeli Air Force that new samples of aviation BT are transferred for testing against Russian air defense.
        But the question is different - but what is the prospect that the entot plane will fly?
      4. And Us Rat
        And Us Rat 31 October 2013 06: 46
        0
        US military assistance is less than 4% of Israel's annual budget.
    2. ShturmKGB
      ShturmKGB 20 June 2013 10: 33
      +3
      Izril apparently has a lot of money ... and his nerves are strong ...
      1. Manager
        Manager 20 June 2013 11: 27
        +9
        ShturmKGB
        Izril apparently has a lot of money ... and his nerves are strong ...

        Yes, with the loot, then Israel has everything in order. But here I think the case is different. Either for free or at a tremendous discount. For it is better not to find a place to try a new plane. Yes, and the advertising is good. Like picky Israel does not buy bad.
        1. cartridge
          cartridge 20 June 2013 12: 33
          10
          Israel has an anniversary this year - 65 years on the neck of the USA!
          The flight continues! wassat
          1. Ezhaak
            Ezhaak 20 June 2013 14: 36
            +5
            Quote: cartridge
            Israel has an anniversary this year - 65 years on the neck of the USA!

            You are absolutely wrong. SSHANIA began to turn its neck at the very end of the 60s of the last century. And Israel perched on their neck with US help in the very beginning of the 70s. Since then it flies.
            1. And Us Rat
              And Us Rat 31 October 2013 06: 48
              0
              US military assistance is less than 4% of Israel's annual budget.
          2. seller trucks
            seller trucks 20 June 2013 15: 41
            -1
            Quote: cartridge
            Israel has an anniversary this year - 65 years on the neck of the USA!


            and Germany’s reparations of about one and a half billion dollars!
            http://www.geotar.com/israpart/stat/reparaz.htm
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 20 June 2013 16: 33
              +7
              Tell me, are you aware that all coalition countries have received reparations, for example? Israel received it because it became the national home for Jews, from whom about 6 million (a third of the nation) were destroyed, and property was completely looted. Do not envy this money. If only one child could be saved on them.
              1. seller trucks
                seller trucks 20 June 2013 17: 08
                +1
                Quote: Pimply
                6 million (one third of the nation), and the property is completely looted.


                you have incorrect data, the number "6" from the lantern, to a million.

                Quote: Pimply
                Are you aware that all coalition countries received reparations


                Do you think this is not fair?
                1. Misantrop
                  Misantrop 20 June 2013 17: 27
                  0
                  Quote: seller trucks
                  Do you think this is not fair?

                  What justice can there be if money has passed by? lol
                  1. Misantrop
                    Misantrop 20 June 2013 20: 12
                    +4
                    Apparently, I guessed the point, judging by the rating of the post. Germany can apologize for the war to anyone, but pay ... laughing
                    Quote: Pimply
                    Quote: seller trucks
                    I would have punished the instigators of the massacre

                    Who are they?
                    See the financial results of the second world. Huge losses were suffered by ALL participating countries, except for ... the USA (they were not badly welded both during the war years and after its end. Moreover, world trade flows were closed on themselves. Otherwise, who would need that dollar as a world currency?
                    1. Mertil
                      Mertil 20 June 2013 20: 33
                      +1
                      Financial, and not only, in addition to the machine of omnipotence, they also received "their" promised land, represented by the State of Israel, the opportunity for all who, something to say against spread anti-Semitism, and just cry to everyone about the mythical Holocaust!
                      1. Misantrop
                        Misantrop 20 June 2013 21: 43
                        -2
                        Quote: Mertil
                        about the mythical holocaust!

                        Well, to tell you the truth, the Jews (not from the rich) in the concentration camps, and in fact, were exterminated fairly. Here are just IMHO they (the Israelis) overdid it with forcing tragedy. From childhood I remember the phrase "gas chamber" and the gas "Cyclone-B". It just turned out that lice were poisoned with this gas, and not a single gas chamber was found (what was presented was simply physically incapable of working for this purpose). What about colorful descriptions of mass burnings? When people are stacked, shifted with wood and set on fire. And to make it burn better, they pour it over with human fat. Perhaps the Germans were unsurpassed chemists, since no one succeeded in full-scale experiments. Such a combination does not want to burn, a preheated crematorium oven is required. And a fair amount of fuel, otherwise it won't burn ...
                      2. Pimply
                        Pimply 20 June 2013 21: 54
                        0
                        I recommend you take a trip to Auschwitz somehow. And read the materials of Nuremberg.
                      3. Misantrop
                        Misantrop 20 June 2013 22: 22
                        +5
                        Quote: Pimply
                        take a trip to Auschwitz
                        By the way, what is the memorial plaque hanging at the entrance now? And then it was changed several times (it was with the numbers of those killed there that the problem was). And I read about the Nuremberg trials in college. Our IWMI teacher described it very interestingly (he was at this process. He was a security guard, not a prosecutor, but nonetheless).

                        By the way, in Auschwitz, Buchenwald, Dachau, etc. there were crematoriums as means of exterminating prisoners. Really it didn’t look scary enough, what else did you need to wind up?
                      4. atalef
                        atalef 20 June 2013 22: 36
                        -2
                        Quote: Misantrop
                        And then it was changed several times (it was with the numbers of those killed there that the problem was).

                        I still remember the losses of the USSR in the Second World War 20 million, now they recognize 28 million, after the war they talked about 14 million. How do you deal with this?
                      5. Misantrop
                        Misantrop 20 June 2013 23: 02
                        +3
                        Quote: atalef
                        How do you like this?

                        Everything is clear with this. According to international criteria for the military stability of states, a country after losing a certain percentage of the population was considered UNSECABLE. So with the onset of the Cold War, recognizing real losses for the USSR was fraught with invasion.
                2. zennon
                  zennon 20 June 2013 23: 33
                  +2
                  Quote: Misantrop
                  Quote: Mertil
                  about the mythical holocaust!

                  From childhood I remember the phrase "gas chamber" and the gas "Cyclone-B". It just turned out that lice were poisoned with this gas, and not a single gas chamber was found (what was presented was simply physically incapable of working for this purpose).

                  It is especially curious that it was in Germany in the 30s (!) That such effective OMs as sarin and zaman (a bit later) were developed! And stupid Germans, refusing to use them, suddenly started pouring expensive and extremely uncomfortable insecticide on their heads !
                3. igor36
                  igor36 21 June 2013 08: 26
                  0
                  Quote: Misantrop
                  From childhood I remember the phrase "gas chamber" and the gas "Cyclone-B". It just turned out that lice were poisoned with this gas.

                  Rudolf Höss - testimony at the Nuremberg trials:
                  In June 1941, I received an order to install equipment in Auschwitz [Auschwitz] for the extermination of Jews. When I equipped the extermination building in Auschwitz, I adapted it to use the Cyclone B gas, which was crystalline hydrocyanic acid. Another improvement made by us was the construction of gas chambers with a single throughput of 2 thousand people, while in ten gas chambers Treblinka it was possible to exterminate only 200 people at a time [2].
                4. Misantrop
                  Misantrop 21 June 2013 10: 08
                  0
                  Quote: igor36
                  В June In 1941, I received orders to install equipment in Auschwitz [Auschwitz] for the extermination of Jews.

                  Here I am about the same. Did they give him an order in prison? what Considering that in May 1941 he flew to England, where he was interned until the end of the war ...
                  And further. Gas chambers for use for this purpose should have (at least, among other things) two MANDATORY things:
                  - a room sealing system,
                  - A powerful ventilation and degassing system.
                  Otherwise, after the first use, not only those in the cell will be poisoned, but everyone else. Including prisoners of other barracks and camp administration. What neither Hess himself nor those who interviewed him had a clue (otherwise they would have bothered). Let me remind you that Hess was in an English prison, and even those are famous provocateurs. And more than technically the devices for exterminating Jews differ from the devices for exterminating all other prisoners, since this is so emphasized?

                  Why and I say that here we are dealing with the great British provocation of those years. Hess had been sitting for a long time by that time, had not taken a personal part in the annihilation, and so he voiced everything that the investigators slipped to him. Well, they worked out the order ... Knowing the methods of Britain to pit peoples among themselves, nothing surprising ...
                5. Rumata
                  Rumata 21 June 2013 10: 56
                  +1
                  Quote: Misantrop
                  Here I am about the same. Did they give him an order in prison? what If we consider that in May 1941 he flew to England, where he was interned until the end of the war ...
                  And further. Gas chambers for use for this purpose should have (at least, among other things) two MANDATORY things:
                  - a room sealing system,
                  - A powerful ventilation and degassing system.
                  Otherwise, after the first use, not only those in the cell will be poisoned, but everyone else. Including prisoners of other barracks and camp administration. What neither Hess himself nor those who interviewed him had a clue (otherwise they would have bothered). Let me remind you that Hess was in an English prison, and even those are famous provocateurs. And yet, how are the devices for exterminating Jews technically different from the devices for exterminating all other prisoners, since this is so emphasized?

                  Why and I say that here we are dealing with the great British provocation of those years. Hess had been sitting for a long time by that time, had not taken a personal part in the annihilation, and so he voiced everything that the investigators slipped to him. Well, they worked out the order ... Knowing the methods of Britain to pit peoples among themselves, nothing surprising ...

                  You are practically quoting the books you mentioned above. This has already been procrastinated a hundred times, everything was laid out on the shelves, and all these "arguments" are not worth a damn. It is because of the overbearing of all these "facts" that no one argues with you, proves nothing. I got tired of doing this 8 years ago. It's like a story with the word "goy" to explain to one, immediately another appeared, then a third, then the first one came back with new quotes from the "Protocols" and so on in a circle, it is better not to react at all, otherwise they will throw them in quotes, copy-paste will endure ... Holocaust deniers still cannot be convinced, especially now.
                6. Misantrop
                  Misantrop 21 June 2013 15: 45
                  +1
                  Did I refer to books here? what
                  Quote: Rumata
                  all these "arguments" are not worth a damn.
                  Indeed, what cost Hess to hit the road from an English prison (where he had been sitting for a month), set up gas chambers, try it out and ... hide back. And what side is the Holocaust Denial?
              2. igor36
                igor36 22 June 2013 15: 44
                +1
                Rudolf Franz Ferdinand Höss (German: Rudolf Franz Ferdinand Höß), (November 25, 1900 - April 16, 1947) - commandant of the Auschwitz concentration camp (May 4, 1940 - November 9, 1943), inspector of concentration camps (November 9, 1943 - 1945), Deputy Chief Inspector of Concentration Camps at the SS General Administration (SS-Wirtschafts-Verwaltungs-Hauptamt (WVHA)) Richard Glucks (1945), SS Obersturmbannführer (July 18, 1942).
                Quote: Misantrop
                Here I am about the same. Did they give him an order in prison?

                Hess and Hess are different people actually
              3. zennon
                zennon 22 June 2013 20: 47
                0
                [/ Quote]
                Hess and Höss are different people actually [/ quote]
                Well, let's talk about him. Hess was appointed commandant in 1940. He was arrested by the British, he was tried in Nuremberg, and then transferred to the Poles. He was sentenced to death in 1947 and executed shortly after the verdict. Hess was tortured, their consequences could be seen when he testified in Nuremberg. He spoke in the monotone voice of a broken man; his gaze was completely absent. And even Reitlinger the Jewish Holocaust denies his testimony as completely untrustworthy. It is alleged that Hess’s manuscript exists, though no one saw it. In Nuremberg, Hess immediately claimed that 25 million people were killed in Birkenau, and then corrected up to three. He said a lot of things. Reitlinger admits that a significant part of Hess’s testimony in Nuremberg was in the realm of the unreal. He said, for example, that 16 thousand people were killed in Auschwitz a day. But that would mean then that by the end of the war at such a pace, 13 million would have been destroyed only in Auschwitz! After the testimony in Nuremberg, Höss was brought to Poland, where a group of Jewish experts led by Jan Söm worked on it.
              4. zennon
                zennon 22 June 2013 21: 16
                0
                [quote = zennon] [/ quote]
                Hess and Höss are different people actually [/ quote]
                Bruno Tesch, founder and leader of the German Pest Control Society, and his assistant Karl Weinbacher were named as accomplices of the "Holocaust". Both were taken to trial in Hamburg in March 1946 by the British. They were accused of facilitating the murder of four million Jews at Auschwitz thanks to the supply of Cyclone B - it turned out that in 1943 alone, 12 tons of insecticide were supplied. In the same year, Norway ordered more than 12 tons of cyclone to DEGESH, and the Finnish army took another 10 tons. Also for killing Jews? The main witness for the prosecution was the Jew Charles Sigismund Bendel. He said that 1000 people were simultaneously driven into the "gas chamber". A wonderful dispute took place between him and the lawyer! Question: You said that the gas chamber was 10x4x1,6 m in size. Right?
                Answer: Yes. Question: Therefore, 64 cubic meters. Answer: I am not entirely sure about this. I am weak in numbers. Question: How can I put 1000 people indoors in 64 cubic meters?
                Answer: The right question. This can only be achieved using German methods.
                Question: Do you seriously argue that it is possible to accommodate 10 people in half a cubic meter? Answer: The proof is four million killed in Auschwitz.
                This is the end of the “cross-examination”! Now, consider that for the cremation of one corpse you need from 40 to 70 kg of coke. Germany needed the strategic fuel! Try to get it, load it, transport it, unload it.
                consume labor costs. There is no information about its levels in Birkenau. About the crematorium’s performance is just a disaster! From complete hopelessness, the Jews claim that the corpses were burned in pits! Try to do this. And even that they burned themselves without fuel! .. You can deceive a person. You can deceive many for a long time, but you cannot always deceive everyone! How tired you are of your lies! Writing is disgusting !!!
  • Pimply
    Pimply 20 June 2013 17: 30
    0
    Quote: seller trucks
    you have incorrect data, the number "6" from the lantern, to a million.


    I recommend that you read something on the topic except the Holocaust deniers. There are serious scientific works and materials from Nuremberg. Everything is in the public domain. Are you ready to read scientific monographs, supported by a serious documentary base, and not someone’s fabrications?


    Quote: seller trucks
    Do you think this is not fair?


    I think this is more than fair. Especially given the slaughter that Germany unleashed.
    1. seller trucks
      seller trucks 20 June 2013 17: 55
      +1
      Quote: Pimply
      I recommend that you read something on the topic except the Holocaust deniers.


      lol Jews? No, thanks. By the way, I would love to read your comments to the "Myth of the Holocaust" by Jurgen Graf, as well as to the books of Reed, Sutton, Stoleshnikov, Nilus, Klimov.

      Quote: Pimply
      I think this is more than fair. Especially given the slaughter that Germany unleashed.


      I would have punished the instigators of the massacre
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 20 June 2013 18: 22
        -1
        Quote: seller trucks
        I would have punished the instigators of the massacre


        Who are they?
    2. shasherin_pavel
      shasherin_pavel 20 June 2013 18: 19
      +5
      Why don't they talk about the "Holocaust" against the Russians? At the front, 8 million were killed, and the rest from the bombing and in the occupied territory, burned like Khatyn, and starved to death in concentration camps. And did you count the Jews who died in the spacecraft during the entire VO? But what about the Jews, who wanted to create the Jewish Reich together with Hitler and were the first to be destroyed by Hitler, and not because they were Jews, but because they wanted to be equal to the Aryans? Are their relatives also entitled to compensation for the fact that they wanted to conquer the world?
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 20 June 2013 18: 23
        0
        Quote: shasherin_pavel
        But what about the Jews who wanted to create a Jewish Reich together with Hitler


        You can in more detail
  • igor67
    igor67 20 June 2013 18: 06
    +6
    Quote: seller trucks
    Quote: Pimply
    6 million (one third of the nation), and the property is completely looted.


    you have incorrect data, the number "6" from the lantern, to a million.

    Quote: Pimply
    Are you aware that all coalition countries received reparations


    Do you think this is not fair?

    It discusses the topic of buying an airplane, not the Holocaust, enough garbage to do
  • shasherin_pavel
    shasherin_pavel 20 June 2013 18: 08
    +3
    A third of the nation .. how is it counted? We conducted a census of Jews around the world and calculated the percentage of decline. In my opinion, no one tried to count the exact number of Jews, or does anyone think that there are 18 million Jews in the world? Probably there were so many of them in the USSR before the war, but what about those in the USA? And who in the Wehrmacht fought in World War II, and died near Stalingrad, also received compensation for the lost property? I am not against the Jews, but let someone answer me the question of how they calculated this percentage and the amount of lost property. Even 20 million Russians indignant me, because with such losses, the country, by all laws of the economy, would not be able to restore everything that was destroyed and fly into space.
  • Mercenary
    Mercenary 20 June 2013 20: 20
    +7
    Patchy complex at you? Every time one and the same Israel is wronged now and now the Holocaust is supposedly, and the genocide of the Russian people will be worse than 27 million on your 6. if there weren’t the USSR there would be 66 of yours.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 20 June 2013 20: 37
      +2
      66 would not be. It just wouldn’t be so much. You saw me ever disrespectfully speak about the dead from the USSR, for example. Or cast doubt on the loss of 27 million deaths? Or you heard some disrespect from the Jews and / or Israelis present on the site. But for some reason every bastard on this site is inclined to cast out on the tragedy of the Holocaust, splashing out his squalor on the forum pages. Yes, I have a complex. I do not like bastards.
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 20 June 2013 23: 58
        +2
        Quote: Pimply
        I do not like bastards.
        Strange, so am I. And when someone tries to squeeze out more money on the blood of their own dead fellow tribesmen, composing horror stories for this, what else to call it? Read the comments of at least this article, NOBODY here denies the DEATH of a very significant part of the Jewish nation. They just indicate that NOT ONLY Jews were killed, and the methods of their destruction were by no means as exotic as other media say about it. And on this basis, to hang the label of scoundrels? And if tomorrow another "eyewitness" begins to tell that the head of the camp personally bit off 10 heads of babies every morning, will you also have to believe? I didn’t write here about such exoticism (also an "eyewitness" expounded), as underground caves with platforms lowered into the water, into which prisoners were driven and shocked. But I did come across such things ...
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Scoun
    Scoun 20 June 2013 12: 21
    +3
    ShturmKGB
    Izril ... and strong nerves.

    I won’t say about the money .. it’s not my business))) but I have a question ... yes .. they will supplement their equipment ...
    F-35 configuration preparation for Israel. At the same time, the issue of integrating Israeli technology into the fighter’s equipment was discussed.

    But can they fix the problem with the pilot’s review, or is this not a big hindrance?
    According to the information presented in the report, the F-35 has the worst view from the cockpit of all aircraft in the arsenal of the US Air Force.

    The creators of the fighter said that the innovative display helmet will allow the F-35 pilot to "see through the cockpit."

    But real flights clearly demonstrated that it’s impossible to do without a normal view from the lantern, and he is too small for the new fighter.

    with all the consequences associated with fraud ... hi
    1. SSR
      SSR 20 June 2013 22: 16
      0
      Quote: Scoun
      associated with fakeEtc.

      associated with Transaction? )))))
  • Yozhas
    Yozhas 20 June 2013 12: 05
    +4
    No, it’s just that. Israel receives subsidies from amers on defense of the country and it is obliged to spend 75% of this money in the USA.

    Maybe they don’t want to, but it’s necessary.
    1. Manager
      Manager 20 June 2013 12: 33
      +5
      Quote: Hedgehog
      No, it’s just that. Israel receives subsidies from amers on defense of the country and it is obliged to spend 75% of this money in the USA.

      Maybe they don’t want to, but it’s necessary.

      Poor miserable! They have to spend money. What kind of genocide is this!
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 20 June 2013 14: 23
        +7
        Israel receives such money by abandoning a piece of land rich in gas and oil, which is twice as large as it is, and which could bring a much greater income. Moreover, in parallel, Egypt receives the same amount, potentially - one of the main opponents of Israel. Only in Egypt are they more biased towards various food programs, since Egypt is experiencing difficulties in this regard.

        And yes, the situation is somewhat problematic due to the fact that, as a result of such cooperation, the Israeli Lavi, for example, did not enter the series.
  • Arkan
    Arkan 20 June 2013 13: 04
    +3
    I am very far from aviation, and perhaps I am mistaken in something, I am just trying to imagine a fleet of cars that require thirty man-hours of service for every hour of flight ... But in Israel they will have to fly very often even in "peacetime" How much will the actual maintenance cost of even twenty aircrafts? How many sorties per day will they be able to make in the event of active hostilities for two or three weeks?
    1. yanus
      yanus 20 June 2013 13: 34
      +5
      Quote: Arkan
      I am very far from aviation, and perhaps I am mistaken in something, I am just trying to imagine a fleet of cars that require thirty man-hours of service for every hour of flight ... But in Israel they will have to fly very often even in "peacetime" How much will the actual maintenance cost of even twenty aircrafts? How many sorties per day will they be able to make in the event of active hostilities for two or three weeks?

      Then to Israel and sold, so that they brought the plane to mind))
      1. Arkan
        Arkan 20 June 2013 14: 07
        +3
        Quote: yanus
        Then to Israel and sold, so that they brought the plane to mind))

        good Continuing your thought, and given the interest of the United States in the earliest possible "finishing" the F-35, Israel needs to hurry up with this, otherwise it has the right not to be in time ... laughing
    2. Pimply
      Pimply 20 June 2013 14: 32
      +2
      Take an interest in how much 4th generation aircraft require.
    3. atalef
      atalef 20 June 2013 20: 03
      +3
      Quote: Arkan
      But in Israel, even in "peacetime" times, they will have to fly very often - how much will the actual maintenance of even twenty aircraft cost? How many sorties per day can they make in the event of active hostilities for two or three weeks?

      I believe that the purchase is superfluous, expensive- 3.5 billion- not a small amount.
      1. Arkan
        Arkan 20 June 2013 20: 07
        +2
        Quote: atalef
        I believe that the purchase is superfluous, expensive- 3.5 billion- not a small amount

        But does this amount include Israeli modernization (I find it difficult to find another word), or is the installation of Israeli equipment a separate article?
  • SASCHAmIXEEW
    SASCHAmIXEEW 20 June 2013 13: 07
    +6
    That's why they endured with s-300 !!!
  • Tambov we ...
    Tambov we ... 20 June 2013 15: 16
    +1
    No wonder - they and their toilets will buy them - Eurointegration (or, amero - quietly at the reception!)
  • Lord of the Sith
    Lord of the Sith 20 June 2013 15: 27
    11
    Meanwhile, in neighboring Syria

    A huge ship with weapons for the Syrian rebels sank in the Indian Ocean

    The team was saved, but the cargo - 4500 containers with weapons and ammunition for the Syrian rebels, went to the bottom.

    The shipwreck occurred on June 17, 200 miles off the coast of Yemen.

    According to the newspaper, American weapons were loaded aboard a ship in Singapore. MOL Comfort followed through the Indian Ocean to Jeddah. According to the Sham Times, after stopping at Jeddah, the container ship was supposed to proceed to the Jordanian port of Aqaba to unload deadly cargo.



    The good news quickly spread on the social networks of Syrian (and Russian) loyalists.

    The source of information for the Sham Times (which the Sham Times prudently does not mention) is the Syrian opposition resource Al-Haqiqa.

    Al-Haqiqa writes: “One of the largest container ships in the world, MOL Comfort, crashed and fell into two parts in the Pacific (!) Ocean, off the coast of Yemen. It carried 4500 containers of American weapons and ammunition for the Syrian rebels. ”

    Al-Haqiqa cites portnews.ru, a reputable Russian shipping website, “According to a publication on Port News’s Russian website, the container ship broke due to a storm, or possibly sabotage. On board the ship were about 4,5 thousand containers with weapons and ammunition. They were heading for US Army depots in the Jordanian port of Aqaba from depots in Singapore. ”

    portnews.ru about the crash:
    Crash Report: June 18, 2013 14:58 p.m.
    Russian sailors from the crashed container ship MOL Comfort did not suffer

    Eleven Russian sailors from the wrecked MOL Comfort container ship (flag of the Bahamas) are alive and well and heading to Colombo on the Yantian Express. According to the press service of the Russian Professional Union of Sailors (RPSM), Valery Berezinsky, deputy chairman of the Pacific regional organization of the Russian Union of Sailors, told about this.
    According to him, Russian sailors recruited to the ship through the Feskokontract crewing.
    “All personal belongings of the sailors have been lost, including maritime documents,” he said. “The Russian Union of Sailors will provide the crew with the necessary assistance.”

    Neither Al-Haqiqa nor the Sham Times mentioned the fact that 11 crew members of the container ship carrying mountains of arms to the rebels were Russian citizens. Previously, the ship was called APL Russia.

    The crash of MOL Comfort has become one of the biggest and most unpleasant surprises for the marine industry. The ship is new - built in 2008 and the reasons for what happened are not yet clear. Against this background, the most incredible theories are born - including that the ship sank “after a series of explosions”.

    According to Maritime Bulletin, “hundreds of containers continue to float in the crash area.”
    It is expected that work at the crash site and attempts to save the cargo will begin on June 23.
    The main carrier at MOL Comfort was the Japanese company Mitsui. Her losses are estimated at 83 million dollars.
    1. Gato
      Gato 20 June 2013 15: 55
      +4
      As the saying goes, "a big ship - a big torpedo" fellow
      1. fzr1000
        fzr1000 20 June 2013 16: 12
        +4
        The report does not show that it has fallen apart. Interestingly, Russian sailors "accidentally" were there?
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. zennon
      zennon 20 June 2013 17: 59
      +1
      Lord of the Sith
      It is somewhat strange that some Syrian newspaper reported such news, and not the largest agencies in the world ...
    4. Arkan
      Arkan 20 June 2013 19: 27
      +1
      Quote: Sith Lord
      A huge ship with weapons for the Syrian rebels sank in the Indian Ocean

      It has not yet sank - it fell apart into two parts that float not at some distance from each other ... Information about the nature of the load is also very contradictory. Let's wait. smile http://publicsea.ru/news/segodnya_k_utru_vyyasnilos_chto_MOL_Comfort_ne_zatonul_
      11-14-11.htm
      1. orff
        orff 20 June 2013 20: 35
        +1
        MOL Comfort sank, confirms the Indian Coast Guard. The crew left the broken ship in two; it was 200 miles off the coast of Yemen, 840 miles from Mumbai. A crew of 26 people were rescued by vessels nearby - MV Hanjin Beijing, MV Zim India and MV Yantian Express. The ship sank shortly after the crew left it. In the area there is a storm with excitement up to 6 meters high. Crew 26 people - 14 Philippines, 11 Russia, 1 Ukraine. The sea in the area of ​​the death of the container ship is strewn with drifting containers. Shipping disturbed
  • Denis
    Denis 20 June 2013 10: 15
    -1
    By 2016, we will build our base in Syria, send Sushkek there 35 tons ... F-35 welcome.
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 20 June 2013 12: 45
      +5
      Quote: Denis
      By 2016, to build our base in Syria, send Sushek there 35 tons ...

      And will An-2 cover their sky?
      1. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 20 June 2013 13: 37
        +5
        Arguments, gentlemen, arguments. Do not like about the An-2? Then consider for yourself. Now we have as many as 6 of them. until the 16th year it is still planned (what plans and reality are, I hope everyone knows) to put about 40 more into the troops. Given that they are also planning to replace the Vityazy’s aircraft, how much can be sent to Syria? 40 aircraft and in the country it’s not God knows how much.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 20 June 2013 14: 33
          +4
          There are no arguments in most rule. Here people love hats.
          1. xan
            xan 20 June 2013 15: 18
            -2
            Quote: Pimply
            There are no arguments in most rule. Here people love hats.

            only here you are one realist, friendly with your head
            in my opinion you are also an amateur, but on the other hand, I dare to suggest socks or thongs
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 20 June 2013 16: 35
              +6
              We switched to you and are in close contact?
      2. shasherin_pavel
        shasherin_pavel 20 June 2013 18: 33
        +3
        It's best to defend your sky over foreign countries, remember the Vietnam syndrome. After all, weapons receive the fastest development in war, and you should not forget about the economy, every plane or missile lost in foreign territory is jobs for currency. A good radar station in Syria costs several on the territory of the country, since the debris of others will fall on foreign territories, and not on Russia. Cuba, Syria and Vietnam are the key points of our defense, which they left so shamefully under Gorby and the "drunkard".
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 20 June 2013 19: 36
          0
          Do you know how actively Vietnam is currently cooperating with the United States, for example, militarily?
    2. Nu daaaa ...
      Nu daaaa ... 20 June 2013 19: 47
      +2
      Soviet pilots against the Israeli air force? Victory with a dry score?

      http://topwar.ru/28353-sovetskie-letchiki-protiv-vvs-izrailya-pobeda-s-suhim-sch
      etom.html
  • fzr1000
    fzr1000 20 June 2013 10: 15
    +5
    Why is Israel such an expensive plane, a lot of money? Syria and Iran can be fought with a 4+ generation. Although there is no silver lining if they are used against our delivered air defense systems, we will find out what they are good for.
    1. avt
      avt 20 June 2013 11: 10
      +6
      Quote: fzr1000
      Why is Israel such an expensive plane, a lot of money?

      Well, this is just as understandable as the purchase of the Osprey. They take it with Amer’s money, here’s the money cycle through Israel. A kind of related military assistance, remember how they Rabi slowed down the Jews and sold F-16s.
      1. Mhpv
        Mhpv 20 June 2013 12: 02
        +4
        The Rothschild Dynasty (German: Rothschild, also known as the Rothschild House [1] or simply the Rothschilds) is a European dynasty of bankers and public figures of Jewish origin, founded at the end of the 18 century.
        Drive their capital through a bank called Israel, Israel-chairs, and yourself-money.
        Well, and why wonder Israel they take F35, the Chinese are asking for the Su 35 market, everyone takes wherever he likes.
    2. Vadivak
      Vadivak 20 June 2013 11: 54
      +3
      Quote: fzr1000
      if they are used against our delivered air defense systems,


      with the condition that our modern air defense systems will be delivered to Syria
      1. fzr1000
        fzr1000 20 June 2013 13: 29
        +2
        It is necessary to bring down one over Damascus and a screw, on a nut, to Russia at night, by dashes, carefully to Zhukovsky for dissection ....
        1. Basileus
          Basileus 20 June 2013 13: 58
          +2
          Yeah, right now. They will trample to Damascus. Even if so, little remains of him. And in light of the fact that he, unlike the Raptor, is also allowed to go abroad, there is not much top-secret there.
          1. танк
            танк 20 June 2013 14: 47
            +1
            Unlike the Raptor, this plane did half the world, to be precise, it counted 9 flags on board, so there is nothing particularly secret in it. The Raptor is another plane. You are right.
            1. experienced
              experienced 20 June 2013 14: 49
              +4
              Quote: tank
              In contrast to the Raptor, this plane did half the world, to be precise, 9 flags counted on board

              Did not, but paid wink Less countries involved in manufacturing
        2. experienced
          experienced 20 June 2013 14: 02
          +2
          Quote: fzr1000
          It is necessary to bring down one over Damascus and a screw, on a nut, to Russia at night, by dashes, carefully to Zhukovsky for dissection ....

          Why not bring down Zhukovsky right away so as not to wind circles laughing
          All such active supporters of Assad, but strive to send someone to him wassat
          Look when they put it to Israel, the question will disappear, and if questions remain, then remember that the United States has not yet made a single combat flight of the F-22. hi
          1. fzr1000
            fzr1000 20 June 2013 14: 12
            +2
            Some of you are all serious. It’s impossible to dream.
            1. experienced
              experienced 20 June 2013 14: 14
              +1
              Quote: fzr1000
              Some of you are all serious. It’s impossible to dream.

              There was already one "dreamer" on the forum, wassat
              1. fzr1000
                fzr1000 20 June 2013 14: 31
                +1
                Well, what are you offering now? With a stone face, carefully mint words? This is not for me.
              2. Apollo
                Apollo 20 June 2013 14: 31
                +4
                Quote: seasoned
                There was already one "dreamer" on the forum,


                I welcome you Alexey hi add and ranked.
                1. experienced
                  experienced 20 June 2013 14: 34
                  +2
                  Quote: Apollon
                  I welcome you, Alex, add and rank.

                  But when I sit down at the table, I look at the "skins" carefully hung on the wall crying ... In short, for each 100 grams you wave and "the day was not in vain", Liter as it had been laughing
                  1. Apollo
                    Apollo 20 June 2013 14: 38
                    +4
                    Quote: seasoned
                    But when I sit down at the table, I look at the "skins" carefully hung on the wall ... In short, you wave 100 grams for each and "the day was not in vain," Litra is gone


                    imagine ...... wassat
                2. Pimply
                  Pimply 20 June 2013 14: 50
                  +2
                  Only one?
                  1. fzr1000
                    fzr1000 20 June 2013 16: 10
                    0
                    Yes, even one. Can’t you get it cheap? Or can you give me contacts? Although, do not answer, and then here, basically, everyone takes seriously.
                    1. Pimply
                      Pimply 20 June 2013 16: 36
                      +1
                      Only expensive
                      1. fzr1000
                        fzr1000 20 June 2013 16: 48
                        0
                        Announce all pzhst menus!
              3. d_trader
                d_trader 20 June 2013 15: 58
                0
                Am I missing something interesting?
          2. Pimply
            Pimply 20 June 2013 14: 47
            0
            And against whom do these sorties take place?
        3. shasherin_pavel
          shasherin_pavel 20 June 2013 18: 42
          0
          Yes, buy from Israel, as at one time amers studied our weapons, buying them from our "allies". It will be cheaper than fighting. After all, it was from abroad that the saying came that everything has its price, "and they themselves know how much the whole of America costs, though the one who bought it will take upon himself all its debts, there are probably no buyers for the raft.
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 20 June 2013 19: 37
            +1
            What makes you think that Israel will sell them?
      2. shasherin_pavel
        shasherin_pavel 20 June 2013 18: 38
        -4
        We have already delivered the S-300 and Pantsir-1, which are anti-theft to protect the S-300 from the Shrikes.
    3. Pimply
      Pimply 20 June 2013 14: 35
      +1
      Because Israel has set itself the task of dominating the airspace, and because not only Syria and Iran, but also Egypt with new American planes are around, Saudi Arabia with a 60 billion arms contract. Etc.
      1. bulgurkhan
        bulgurkhan 20 June 2013 15: 27
        +1
        Turkey will buy 100 F-35A.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 20 June 2013 16: 37
          +1
          She is one of the participating countries.
    4. Ascetic
      Ascetic 20 June 2013 23: 33
      +1
      Quote: fzr1000
      Why is Israel such an expensive plane, a lot of money? Syria and Iran can be fought with a 4+ generation.


      Under a contract with the Americans, concluded in April this year, the Israelis create wings for the F-35 fighter, the contract is signed for 15 years, the projected profit of the Israeli concern IAI is up to $ 2.5 billion. Israel itself will receive the F-35 with original "Middle Eastern electronics" - avionics. created on the basis of the experience of the Middle East wars, Lockheed also acquired from Israel electronic systems worth $ 450 million. They will be installed on the first 20 aircraft supplied to Israel. Yes, and the "native" avionics of the F-35 is also made with the participation of the Israelis, although Israel is officially not included in the top nine JSF partner countries.
      In addition, Israel received permission to rebuild avionics in its own way, which the manufacturer does not allow anyone else to do. This is - very important - both for concealing opportunities and for marketing promotion of the Israeli option.
      By the way, fighters used titanium alloys of the Russian corporation AVISMA, the world's largest producer of titanium alloys and semi-finished products from them, including for Boeing Corporation,
  • Trofimov174
    Trofimov174 20 June 2013 10: 16
    0
    For the Syrian S-300 finally found work.
    1. Vanek
      Vanek 20 June 2013 10: 34
      +2
      Quote: Trofimov174
      For Syrian S-300 finally found work.


      For Russian. wink
    2. Vadivak
      Vadivak 20 June 2013 12: 02
      +6
      Quote: Trofimov174
      For the Syrian S-300 finally found work.


      How do you all know? Share the source will rejoice together. So far, there is only an intention to fulfill a previously concluded contract
  • Smersh
    Smersh 20 June 2013 10: 33
    0
    For that matter, under this pretext you can transfer S-400 to Syria
    1. shasherin_pavel
      shasherin_pavel 20 June 2013 18: 46
      0
      Syria should be 400 times larger for the S-10; they don’t fight in a room with a spear.
  • Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 20 June 2013 10: 48
    +1
    Israel is arming heavily. It feels like a fried smell. The bombing of Syria and Iran will be remembered soon.
    1. Basileus
      Basileus 20 June 2013 11: 02
      +1
      Well, remember, so what? No matter how sad it is for Russian (and now American) technology, Arabs cannot go to war. In addition, Syria, one of Israel’s most battle-worthy neighbors, has problems. And there is no cohesion between neighbors.
    2. Vadivak
      Vadivak 20 June 2013 12: 09
      16
      Quote: MIKHAN
      Israel is arming heavily. It feels like a fried smell.


      Israel is already better armed than all the Arab countries combined, and it smells fried since its founding, and mainly for Arabs.
    3. Pimply
      Pimply 20 June 2013 14: 36
      +7
      Israel is always arming heavily. With such an environment, you would also be armed.
      1. experienced
        experienced 20 June 2013 14: 42
        +7
        Quote: Pimply
        Israel is always arming heavily. With such an environment, you would also be armed.

        Zhenya, so after the collapse of the Warsaw block, the situation is no better, only nuclear weapons and delivery vehicles help out. And since you are alone, completely alone surrounded hi
        We are without sponsors, we also sponsor sometimes ...
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 20 June 2013 14: 52
          +5
          Lesh, well, since I am also a Russian resident and citizen, I’ll say that Russia is calmer in this regard nevertheless. Europe on the one hand, plus open spaces. And glory to Gd. And Israel simply has nowhere to retreat 8).
          1. experienced
            experienced 20 June 2013 14: 56
            +4
            Quote: Pimply
            since I am also a Russian resident and citizen, I’ll say that Russia is still calmer in this regard. Europe on the one hand, plus open spaces

            Well, I don’t argue. Although Europe also periodically begins to argue, how much Sweden will stand against Russia (a week is allotted to itself), is it necessary for the Pole to go to war if Russia attacks the Baltic states ... In general, there are also enough clowns smile
            And it’s yes, it’s our everything and in 1812 and in 1941 they saved, but it was the ancestors who contributed hi
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 20 June 2013 15: 15
              +2
              Given the process of radicalization in Russia, I fully understand the anxieties of Europeans.
              1. fzr1000
                fzr1000 20 June 2013 16: 30
                +2
                Radicalization of whom and why? In Europe, radicalization itself is going wild. We still in the capitals of the military in the form of Tajiks with axes to pieces for video shooting is not cut.
                1. Pimply
                  Pimply 20 June 2013 16: 45
                  +1
                  Do not confuse the radicalization of society with the radicalization of individuals or social groups.
                  1. fzr1000
                    fzr1000 20 June 2013 17: 02
                    0
                    And what is the radicalization of our society, which, by the way, consists of separate individuals or social groups? LCN? So among them, too, not all. Yellowy Natsiks? The Ministry of Internal Affairs and the FSB will quickly cool their ardor, are they under the hood, as a rule? Migrants? With these, too, they will not stand on ceremony if they begin to arise. Both civilians and people specially trained for this will hit them. "Ility" ours? They have neither the strength nor the will to do something aggressive. Impotent and cowards. What is so strongly radicalized in Russia, in contrast to other countries? It seems to me that we, on the contrary, are a rather apathetic nation (or population).
                    1. Pimply
                      Pimply 20 June 2013 17: 32
                      -2
                      Toughened by law, the growth of nationalist sentiments and groups, aggressive political rhetoric, xenophobia, propagated at the state level. And many many others.
                      1. fzr1000
                        fzr1000 20 June 2013 17: 49
                        +1
                        Too general and vague. And somehow template-newspaper-poster-propaganda.
                        I thought you were a deeper conversationalist. Sorry.
                      2. Pimply
                        Pimply 20 June 2013 17: 53
                        -1
                        Boyfriend, not ham. And trolling is not with me. Okie
                      3. fzr1000
                        fzr1000 20 June 2013 20: 57
                        +1
                        I don't quite understand your reaction, "friend". Thank you for not "screwing gn.i.d.a." While.
                      4. Pimply
                        Pimply 20 June 2013 21: 15
                        0
                        And what is incomprehensible. You are naughty, why do you think that I should eat your rudeness? Eat yourself.
                2. Ascetic
                  Ascetic 20 June 2013 23: 46
                  +1
                  Quote: Pimply
                  the growth of nationalist sentiments and groups, aggressive political rhetoric, xenophobia, propagated at the state level. And many many others.


                  Well, straight from the report of the "Memorial" society.
                  On February 12, 2013, within the framework of the 82nd session of the UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination (CERD), a meeting was held with non-governmental organizations about the situation in Russia.
                  The Memorial Anti-Discrimination Center and the SOVA Information and Analytical Center with the participation of the International Partnership for Human Rights (IPHR) and the International Federation for Human Rights (FIDH) presented an alternative report (so far available only in English).
                  link
                  It is enough to see the photo at the beginning of the report and the goals of this opus will become clear and without the arguments of Mr. Shaking Journalist Pupyrchaty.
                  During the meeting, representatives of the organizations - co-authors of the report raised a number of issues relating to discrimination in the country, including the lack of a definition of discrimination in Russian law, the presence of racial discrimination against migrants from Central Asia, the problems of the demolition of Roma settlements and the segregation of Roma children in schools, and the situation of indigenous peoples.
                  That's what bloody gebnya does in Russia ...
                  They are funny liberalists .. the right word.
                3. igor67
                  igor67 20 June 2013 23: 53
                  +1
                  [quote = Ascetic]
                  That's what bloody gebnya does in Russia
                  Europeans accuse Israelis of "torturing" Arab children with Hebrew, that's what the bloody mossad does
                4. Pimply
                  Pimply 21 June 2013 02: 22
                  0
                  Goals shaking hands. Dear, have we switched to personalities?
  • fzr1000
    fzr1000 20 June 2013 16: 28
    0
    It is necessary, as in the Emirates, to fill up the coast and artificial islands.
  • SSR
    SSR 20 June 2013 22: 12
    0
    Quote: Pimply
    Israel is always arming heavily.

    Hence the feeling of its absolute invulnerability ...
    Sideways may come out .. for the history of 100 years "penny".
  • atalef
    atalef 20 June 2013 20: 13
    +2
    Quote: MIKHAN
    He feels the smell of fried. The bombing of Syria and Iran will be remembered soon.

    after 7 years there will be airplanes.
    fool
  • Pon69
    Pon69 20 June 2013 11: 07
    +2
    It seems amers Britain is not considered a foreign country. The British seem to be flying around their pepelats.
    1. Basileus
      Basileus 20 June 2013 11: 09
      +1
      Sobsno, he is with the Americans no earlier than 15 years in the navy and 16 years in the army should appear.
    2. Odysseus
      Odysseus 20 June 2013 13: 01
      +2
      Quote: Pon69
      It seems amers Britain is not considered a foreign country. The British seem to be flying around their pepelats.

      They have the first squadron to achieve combat readiness by 2018.
      1. bulgurkhan
        bulgurkhan 20 June 2013 15: 31
        +2
        Britain officially received 2 F-35Bs. So the Israel squadron will achieve combat readiness anyway later.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 20 June 2013 16: 37
          +1
          Hardly. This is still a small series, for various trainings and approbations.
  • tor-vic
    tor-vic 20 June 2013 11: 10
    0
    ShturmKGB
    Izril apparently has a lot of money ... and his nerves are strong ...
    Israel is arming itself at the expense of the United States. The United States in this way solves the problem of selling useless goods to anyone. One hand from the US budget gives Jews money, and the second hand sells stale planes for the same money :)
  • Kuzkin Batyan
    Kuzkin Batyan 20 June 2013 11: 11
    0
    That's the reckoning of nosy for the support of the Americans. Since no one wants to buy this plane, they will force Israel to buy it. The girls are having fun dancing.
    1. Kuzkin Batyan
      Kuzkin Batyan 20 June 2013 11: 18
      -1
      By the way, it seems like a lot of things on this plane were done in Israel. They’ve piled up themselves, now they’re using it themselves)) In the photo, the plane also had flags stuck to the countries of developers, a good anti-advertisement for the country))
  • Black Colonel
    Black Colonel 20 June 2013 11: 13
    +2
    The lantern, it turns out, is the Fu-35 with binding. I thought that, like on the Fu-22, he was boundless.
    1. patsantre
      patsantre 20 June 2013 11: 22
      -1
      There are probably so few of his photos on the net, and there is no information about him at all, since this was a discovery for you.
      1. Black Colonel
        Black Colonel 20 June 2013 13: 59
        +1
        Yes, somehow did not pay attention to it.
        1. bulgurkhan
          bulgurkhan 20 June 2013 15: 35
          +3
          This is not a binding, but an internal arc of rigidity.
  • sys-1985
    sys-1985 20 June 2013 11: 19
    -1
    The news is good .. Let them buy .. Our easier)
    1. Manager
      Manager 20 June 2013 11: 29
      +3
      Quote: sys-1985
      Let them buy .. Our easier)

      What is easier? In which place?
  • andrei332809
    andrei332809 20 June 2013 11: 22
    +2
    But tell me, please, is it voluntarily or forced?
  • Kirgudum
    Kirgudum 20 June 2013 11: 34
    0
    Someone believes that Israel is able to bring to mind this unfinished Fu-35, which even according to the criteria of Americans DOES NOT MEET the requirements for a fifth-generation fighter?
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 20 June 2013 12: 13
      +7
      Quote: Kirgudum
      Someone believes that Israel is able to bring to mind


      Do you think Israel is wasting money?
      1. igor67
        igor67 20 June 2013 13: 17
        +4
        Quote: Vadivak
        Quote: Kirgudum
        Someone believes that Israel is able to bring to mind


        Do you think Israel is wasting money?

        Hi Vadim! This contract was concluded for a very long time, ours didn’t want to take only ours with the American filling, which we didn’t know exactly, but I think they will shove their own
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 20 June 2013 14: 40
          +1
          They will be theirs. It is not clear whether his own will leave for the first batch. But most likely yes.
        2. Vadivak
          Vadivak 20 June 2013 15: 40
          +2
          Quote: igor67
          Hi Vadim! This contract was concluded for a very long time, ours didn’t want to take only ours with the American filling, which we didn’t know exactly, but I think they will shove their own


          Hi Igor, I’m sure of that too, besides I think your filling will also go for export
          1. igor67
            igor67 20 June 2013 15: 51
            +1
            Quote: Vadivak
            Quote: igor67
            Hi Vadim! This contract was concluded for a very long time, ours didn’t want to take only ours with the American filling, which we didn’t know exactly, but I think they will shove their own


            Hi Igor, I’m sure of that too, besides I think your filling will also go for export

            Here I found the data for 2010: "F-35 is a fighter of the future" - Israeli Defense Minister
            23.08.2010/600/7 Military parity XNUMX XNUMX
            fields and industries: Aviation + Markets and cooperation, Aviation + New developments
            0
            Do you like the news?
            0
            The Israeli newspaper Haaretz reports that the government has given permission to purchase 20 US F-35 fighters in the amount of "about 2,75 billion US dollars" (2,1 billion euros).


            The command of the Israeli Air Force and Space Forces (Israel Air & Space Force) wanted to acquire 75 aircraft of this type, but the reduction in order may be due to the blocking of the US requirements of Israel to equip these fighters with electronic warfare equipment and communications of its own production. The report said that the United States agreed to install these systems on an airplane if Israel purchases more fighters of this type.


            Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak said that "the F-35 is a fighter of the future that will allow Israel to maintain air and technological superiority in the region." The upcoming contract must be approved by the US Congress.
          2. Pimply
            Pimply 20 June 2013 16: 39
            +1
            Probably. Part of the production of this is done in Israel. Wings for an airplane, for example.
        3. atalef
          atalef 20 June 2013 20: 19
          +2
          Quote: igor67
          rivet Vadim! This contract was concluded for a very long time, ours didn’t want to take only ours with the American filling, which we didn’t know exactly, but I think they will shove their own

          Hi, Igiryanich, the filling will be in many ways ours. On the one hand, it will make it cheaper (although even this is not too expensive in my opinion). You know that ours is better, at first they resisted (they wanted access to technology) but ours insisted and in general were broken
    2. Manager
      Manager 20 June 2013 13: 15
      +3
      Quote: Kirgudum
      which even by the criteria of Americans DOES NOT MEET the requirements for a fifth generation fighter?

      You can reference where the Americans talk about it. Or at least a reference to American criteria for a 5th generation airplane.
      1. Army1
        Army1 20 June 2013 15: 15
        +2
        Quote: Manager
        You can reference where the Americans talk about it. Or at least a reference to American criteria for a 5th generation airplane.

        I can give a link to the Australian site, very interesting, and there are a comparison of su 35:
        http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-NOTAM-081109-1.html
        1. Manager
          Manager 20 June 2013 15: 46
          +1
          Quote: Army1
          I can give a link to the Australian site, very interesting, and there are a comparison of su 35:
          http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-NOTAM-081109-1.html


          Thank! Very interesting!
    3. Pimply
      Pimply 20 June 2013 14: 39
      +3
      It matches. The Americans achieved super maneuverability and everything they wanted on the F-22. And they decided that they did not need it. They achieve their goals with hardware and electronics.
      1. djon77
        djon77 20 June 2013 16: 16
        +1
        I’m wondering at what speeds air fights would usually take place now. It’s a pity there is no vafa? but I think that it’s usually not less than a thousand per hour. And you can forget about a thousand maneuverability. Overloads are unbelievable. same thing. and this time. time needed to capture the target. so I think
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 20 June 2013 16: 39
          0
          That's what this is about.
  • Vtel
    Vtel 20 June 2013 11: 52
    0
    According to Israel Hayom, the first aircraft, as planned, will be delivered to Israel at the end of 2016.

    A parcel will be received faster.
    It’s very interesting how American kosher sells to Israeli kosher, which is too expensive for others. Because the printing press is in the wrong hands.
  • _Forgiven_
    _Forgiven_ 20 June 2013 11: 55
    0
    Let them buy 100500% I give a guarantee that they will stand in their hangars in the form of exhibits like Americans have raptors. Where will they fly on these waffles? The road is already closed in the SAR - the S-300 is a powerful argument for the promoted Lightings
  • Marconi41
    Marconi41 20 June 2013 12: 00
    +4
    And by the way, it can be quite. The Israelis modified the F-15 so that the Americans never dreamed of it. One avionics worth it. In addition, Israeli pilots have much fewer restrictions on the use of flight modes than even US pilots (we understand that the fight for "non-emergency"). So it is very possible that the Jews will bring this Lockheed to mind. Well, it is clear that they will not throw their Needles in the trash either.
  • IRBIS
    IRBIS 20 June 2013 12: 00
    10
    I am a patriot of my country, but why constantly find fault with someone else's equipment? "Raw", "unfinished" - whatever epithets are used. Do you seriously think the Israelis are suckers if they bought this plane? I doubt something in this statement, I strongly doubt it ...
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 20 June 2013 12: 19
      +4
      Quote: IRBIS
      I am a patriot of my country, but why constantly blame someone else’s equipment?


      That's it. Until they ran into her. For example, Dry-27 made, F-15 is a fact. And about 35 there is no normal information.
      1. Odysseus
        Odysseus 20 June 2013 13: 03
        0
        Quote: Vadivak
        For example, Dry-27 made, F-15 is a fact

        I did not take part in the Su-27; MiG-29 did, but with a sad result ...
        1. Vadivak
          Vadivak 20 June 2013 15: 44
          +2
          Quote: Odyssey
          Su-27 did not participate in the database.


          Did I mention the fighting? There were practice battles or "maneuvers" during the 1992 visit
          1. Odysseus
            Odysseus 20 June 2013 16: 02
            0
            Quote: Vadivak
            Did I mention the fighting? There were practice battles or "maneuvers" during the 1992 visit

            The Americans categorically deny the fact of "training battles." I think they are right, this was the first visit to the United States. The Americans would not agree to any "training battles"
            1. Vadivak
              Vadivak 20 June 2013 16: 16
              +2
              Quote: Odyssey
              The Americans would not agree to any "training battles"


              (DACT) "Cope India - 2004" Read In close combat, the less maneuverable F-15C had little chance of surviving. According to the Indian command, in this way the Americans were "shot down" at least 20 times.
              Source: http://ammokor.ucoz.ru/index/su_27_protiv_f_15/0-178
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 20 June 2013 16: 40
                +3
                It all depends on the conditions of these battles. Too many factors to just compare clean machines.
                1. Vadivak
                  Vadivak 20 June 2013 16: 44
                  +1
                  Quote: Pimply
                  It all depends on the conditions of these battles.


                  Zhen I threw a link there, and in nete is full of descriptions
                  1. Pimply
                    Pimply 20 June 2013 16: 49
                    +1
                    Yes, I read about these teachings more than once. Workers were severely curtailed by the Americans. In addition, the F-22 program was pushed through. In general, you understand. All this had little to do with reality.
              2. Odysseus
                Odysseus 20 June 2013 18: 37
                0
                Quote: Vadivak
                (DACT) "Cope India - 2004" Read In close combat, the less maneuverable F-15C had little chance of surviving. According to the Indian command, in this way the Americans were "shot down" at least 20 times.

                Thank you, I am in the know. I think it would be offensive to the Su-30K to believe that with a ratio of 3 versus 1 and without the use of medium-range missiles, he would not be able to beat the F-15.
                Moreover, an unloaded (not more than 50% fuel) Su-30 with equal pilots should have an advantage over the F-15 in the BVB.
                But I don't think you can say “did” in relation to a hypothetical BVB victory in a 1v1 exercise.
                1. Vadivak
                  Vadivak 20 June 2013 20: 25
                  +1
                  Quote: Odyssey
                  Thanks, I'm up to date.


                  Please, just what were we arguing then? smile
                  1. Odysseus
                    Odysseus 20 June 2013 23: 39
                    0
                    Quote: Vadivak
                    Please, just what were we arguing then?

                    And we did not argue, we debated))
                    I believed that the phrase "For example, did Sushka-27, F-15 is a fact" refers to the DB, and not to exercises with a ratio of 3 Su-30 to 1 F-15.
        2. Scoun
          Scoun 20 June 2013 18: 08
          +1
          Quote: Odyssey
          I did not take part in the Su-27; MiG-29 did, but with a sad result ...

          Iraq war
          As before, the American F-16s were used as attack aircraft. During the invasion of coalition forces in Iraq (March – April 2003), they did not have losses and air victories due to the complete inaction of the Iraqi Air Force

          As American aviation historian John Correl notes, as of 2008, F-15 aircraft won a total of 104 air victories without a single loss.

          Gulf War - Liberation of Kuwait, 1991. F / A-18 was widely used for bombing and air cover during Operation Desert Storm. On their account 2 downed Iraqi MiG-21s. Combat losses amounted to 2-3 downed (1 shot down an Iraqi MiG-25, 1 SAM and 1 lost for unknown reasons) and 6 damaged aircraft

          yeah)) after reading Wiki .. you start to think ... why do such terminators need a 5th generation airplane))))
          And most importantly, the Internet is pretty clean ...
          1. Odysseus
            Odysseus 20 June 2013 23: 35
            0
            Quote: Scoun
            yeah)) after reading Wiki .. you start to think ... why do such terminators need a 5th generation airplane))))

            Something I didn’t catch, why is this a thoughtful statement. Do you want to say that the Su-27 took part in the database, or were the MiG results good?
  • Ustian
    Ustian 20 June 2013 12: 23
    0
    Quote: andrei332809
    Israel will be the first foreign country to adopt the fifth generation F-35 Lightning-2 multipurpose fighter

    Are training targets for C-300 expensive?
  • Odysseus
    Odysseus 20 June 2013 13: 06
    +2
    Well, in fact, no one doubted that Israel would be the first to adopt it. It is only interesting what version is stripped down or complete (as in the US Air Force). Most likely complete.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 20 June 2013 14: 45
      +2
      There they will install their equipment - avionics, helmets, etc. The radar, most likely, will also have its own. A lot of copies around this were broken, the Americans strongly did not want to give Israel anything else to put on this plane. In general, it looks like the filling and the addition to it will differ greatly from the American version.

      Missiles presumably will be their own, among other things, and jammers
      1. Odysseus
        Odysseus 20 June 2013 16: 05
        0
        Quote: Pimply
        There they will install their equipment - avionics, helmets, etc. The radar, most likely, will also have its own. A lot of copies around this were broken, the Americans strongly did not want to give Israel anything else to put on this plane. In general, it looks like the filling and the addition to it will differ greatly from the American version.

        And what does not suit the Amer stuffing? Or is it the support of its manufacturer?
        As for the "cut-down version", the USA wanted to export vehicles with increased EPR. I don’t know, maybe they have abandoned this idea now.
        1. igor67
          igor67 20 June 2013 16: 11
          0
          [
          And what does not suit the Amer stuffing? Or is it the support of its manufacturer?
          As for the "cut-down version", the United States wanted to export machines with increased EPR. I don't know, maybe now they have abandoned this idea. [/ Quote]
          On f15-16, too, has its own avionics, Amer’s worse
  • faraon
    faraon 20 June 2013 14: 36
    +1
    It’s a good article. Of course, it doesn’t disclose everything, but some conclusions can be drawn from the information received. Namely, the plane is not bad in all respects, and for all that, it is donated to Israel as military assistance. He will have his own avionics. And there will be a completely modified machine. Which on the S-300 can be ignored. This is a complete advantage on the side of Israel in the strategic plan. Dear forum users, you should not underestimate the enemy, as subsequently, as international experience suggested, this turned out to be a big loss. Look at Israel has a very strong motivation, it has no Ural mountains to hide behind. It is constantly improving its tactics. Only in Israel there are military exercises with live ammunition. Refer to the sources. Israel must have a strong fighting army, otherwise he will die.
    1. fzr1000
      fzr1000 20 June 2013 14: 47
      +4
      Well, when yours are on F 35 in the reach of the C 300 and open fire on them and do not fall, then it will be possible to ignore the C 300. In the meantime, fantasies, dreams ...
    2. Igarr
      Igarr 20 June 2013 15: 03
      +2
      Come on, guys ... I, for one, just for.
      Given recent articles about aggressive currents.
      You are there, as in Borodin's novel "... do not put a sword in the sheath ..." - well, so, and we will watch. From the side.
      The layout is what to do. Fate
      You look at what is valuable - take a note for yourself.
      Good luck .. in gambling.
    3. uhu189
      uhu189 20 June 2013 15: 41
      0
      Do you believe that Israel can stand alone in the chaos of the Middle East? I do not believe. Israel only holds on to the colossal continued support of the United States with money and military equipment. If the USA surrenders it, there will be no chance of survival, since there is only one idea with which to unite all Arabs and Sheites and Sunnis - this is hatred of Israel. The country will simply be swept away, and not the mercans, nor the iron dome, nor the F-35 will save
      1. Vadivak
        Vadivak 20 June 2013 15: 48
        +7
        Quote: uhu189
        Do you believe that Israel can stand alone in the chaos of the Middle East?


        And you read about the Arab-Israeli wars that shake the air in vain
        1. uhu189
          uhu189 20 June 2013 15: 56
          0
          You will not believe it, dear Vadivak, but you read a lot. Especially the latter are very instructive - the Doomsday War and the Lebanese 1982. And in the course of all these wars, the United States helped Israel all - transferring cargo, ammunition and ammunition, compensating for losses in aircraft, transmitting intelligence. But then the wars were with the states, and now it’s already, I'm afraid not the states will be
          1. experienced
            experienced 20 June 2013 15: 58
            +4
            Quote: uhu189
            Especially the latter are very instructive - the Doomsday War and the Lebanese 1982. And in the course of all these wars, the United States helped Israel all - transferring cargo, ammunition and ammunition, compensating for losses in aircraft, transmitting intelligence.


            Let's be honest to the end, the Arabs at that time stood the USSR and also helped, by technology, by specialists ... hi
            1. uhu189
              uhu189 20 June 2013 16: 14
              +1
              He helped, I don’t argue, but now everything has been distorted, as in a crooked mirror - the United States helps the Arabs, and the United States also helps the Jews, but already noticeably less than before. Radical Islamists appeared, a powerful Iran appeared, which is close, uncontrolled chaos began. But Israel was essentially left alone with a minimal area and small population. It is very similar to the fact that Israel the USA is simply drained
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 20 June 2013 16: 42
                +1
                He was mainly - with himself.
            2. Apollo
              Apollo 20 June 2013 17: 08
              +5
              Quote: seasoned
              Let's be honest to the end, the Arabs at that time stood the USSR and also helped, by technology, by specialists ...


              and which, after the collapse of the USSR, were thrown in cash.
          2. Vadivak
            Vadivak 20 June 2013 16: 37
            +4
            Quote: uhu189
            And in the course of all these wars, the United States helped Israel all - they transferred goods, ammunition and ammunition,


            dear Maxim, did the Arabs armed with kurmultuki start the Doomsday War?

            Israel’s attempt to buy “Chieftains” failed due to a veto, bought 150 M60A1, 48 175 mm M 107 self-propelled guns, the rest is old Sherman, Centurion, T-54. In total, in the Israeli army by the beginning of 1973 there were approximately 1700 tanks and self-propelled guns .

            in 1967-1973 Egypt received 1260 T-54/55, 400 T-62, 750 BTR-50 and OT-62 armored personnel carriers, 150 of the most recent BMP-1 armored vehicles,

            By the beginning of hostilities, the Egyptian army totaled 2200 tanks and self-propelled guns, Syria 1350.
            1. igor67
              igor67 20 June 2013 16: 41
              +2
              Quote: Vadivak
              Quote: uhu189
              And in the course of all these wars, the United States helped Israel all - they transferred goods, ammunition and ammunition,


              dear Maxim, did the Arabs armed with kurmultuki start the Doomsday War?

              Israel’s attempt to buy “Chieftains” failed due to a veto, bought 150 M60A1, 48 175 mm M 107 self-propelled guns, the rest is old Sherman, Centurion, T-54. In total, in the Israeli army by the beginning of 1973 there were approximately 1700 tanks and self-propelled guns .

              in 1967-1973 Egypt received 1260 T-54/55, 400 T-62, 750 BTR-50 and OT-62 armored personnel carriers, 150 of the most recent BMP-1 armored vehicles,

              By the beginning of hostilities, the Egyptian army totaled 2200 tanks and self-propelled guns, Syria 1350.

              Another point on the T 62 was the IR sight, the Israelis simply didn’t have it and this advantage was blown away, sorry for the expression,
              1. uhu189
                uhu189 20 June 2013 17: 06
                -1
                Yes, you are right among the Arabs the numerical superiority (even the Iraqi divisions forgot and Jordan also sent troops, if I am not mistaken, the Palestinians), only not all the tanks of Egypt and Syria participated in the offensive, the Egyptians advanced on a rather narrow front through the ridge, the Syrians on fortified positions in the Golan Heights, and Israel, having a developed network of roads behind him, freely maneuvered with forces and first stopped the Syrians, and then the Egyptians, in parts ... It turns out that they won due to maneuver by forces, and the Arabs essentially lost due to lack of water tviya Egyptian army after the first breakthrough of fortified border positions.
                On sights - but weren't ordinary sights better? And the Syrians didn’t go head-on to the fortified area? Hence the losses exceeding Israeli.
                1. Vadivak
                  Vadivak 20 June 2013 17: 29
                  +4
                  Quote: uhu189
                  and Israel, having a developed network of roads behind him, freely maneuvered forces


                  Maxim, it doesn’t matter how Israel maneuvers, it’s important that he defeated the four attacking countries, and only for this the military people respect him, and the non-military carry nonsense about paisas, noses and any other snowstorm,
                  1. uhu189
                    uhu189 20 June 2013 17: 36
                    +1
                    Vadim, I do not question the successes of the Israeli army and aviation, I’m just trying to explain to you that the situation is now very different from the 1973 of the year. Then there were the rules - the confrontation between the two superpowers, ours for the Arabs, the United States for the Jews. Now everything has changed, there are no rules, the old ally has long been playing his game, around one chaos. Islamists, already armed even with nerve gas, uncontrolled weapons and most importantly there’s no one to negotiate with.
                    1. Pimply
                      Pimply 20 June 2013 17: 50
                      +3
                      The old ally has always played primarily in his own direction - and Israel understands this. That's why he is an ally. And they do not build illusions.

                      Israel is too strong a regional power, with a unique position on the map and developed industry and scientific developments. One ally will leave - there will be another. As was the case with France, for example.
                      1. uhu189
                        uhu189 20 June 2013 18: 07
                        0
                        Yes, there was a period when France was an ally of Libya - and how did it end? .. I will try to end the discussion - it was just that it was much better for everyone to still have stable secular Arab states, and not provoke a large-scale collapse and destabilization of the entire region by the notorious "old an ally "with absolutely unpredictable consequences of the collapse
                      2. Pimply
                        Pimply 20 June 2013 18: 24
                        +1
                        This is not about France and Libya. And about France and Israel.
                      3. atalef
                        atalef 20 June 2013 20: 34
                        +1
                        Quote: uhu189
                        Yes, there was a period when France Libya was an ally - and how did it end ?.

                        Indeed, Georgia and the Baltic states were in the family of fraternal peoples, like Ukraine.
                        Quote: uhu189
                        I’ll try to end the discussion - it was just much better for everyone so that stable secular Arab states would still remain

                        the impression is that stable and secular states (Arab) gave us peace and tranquility, I’ll say Mursi will fly with Hamas and the Islamists in the Sinai - like Mubarak could never afford in life. They have already destroyed almost all the Khmasovsky tunnels. Well, who is better for us. Judge by actions.
                      4. uhu189
                        uhu189 20 June 2013 21: 15
                        0
                        Judging by the actions, Egypt is on the verge of disaster. And if this catastrophe does happen, I’m afraid in Israel the situation will not change for the better. I think you will not argue with this
                      5. atalef
                        atalef 20 June 2013 21: 20
                        +2
                        Quote: uhu189
                        And if this catastrophe does happen, I’m afraid in Israel the situation will not change for the better.

                        Well, judging by your comments - it would be more appropriate to write - to my joy, etc.

                        In general, troubles must be experienced as they arrive. In general, for starters, they need to at least 500 km across the Sinai (demilitarized) wave away and force the Suez Canal before that, or do you think they will move along the 2 bridges. Well, and of course we will be calmly looking at it
                      6. uhu189
                        uhu189 20 June 2013 21: 41
                        +1
                        Yes, no atalef, you are wrong, I do not feel any hatred towards the Jews. And how can loss of life cause joy or satisfaction? I just see how the United States brings chaos in the Middle East, and the further, the more. But Israel simply falls under the hand, but it seems that far from all of Israel understands this. It makes me sad. And even more becomes from your comments, in which a misunderstanding of this simple fact comes through. Nobody is better from the war, and it will affect absolutely everyone, without exception. And DMZ will not be protected from this, and Lightings will not save from this, only again, not everyone understands this.
                      7. Pimply
                        Pimply 20 June 2013 21: 57
                        0
                        The United States needed this chaos last. With all the guys thrown off, they all had a bunch. Just when the horse is running, you must either try to jump on it, or stay somewhere far behind. You somehow too easily exclude Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Turkey - there are a lot of regional players, with their significant influence and interests.
                      8. uhu189
                        uhu189 20 June 2013 22: 07
                        0
                        Gulf monarchies are probably interested in weakening their main competitors, of course, but no team of monarchies can outplay the interests of the United States. It is the United States that needs chaos, and the Middle East is only the first step, or rather, the second, the first was Libya. But Israel was simply sacrificed along the way - according to the principle it will survive - well, it will not survive - well, what to do, such is life. They put fighters in the 80 SA, they promised 40 to Israel - that’s all arithmetic. Libyan sarin was found among militants in Syria - no one pays attention to this, this is apparently nonsense ... Do you seriously believe that the United States is out of business?
                    2. atalef
                      atalef 20 June 2013 22: 40
                      0
                      Quote: uhu189
                      I just see how the United States brings chaos in the Middle East, and the further, the more.

                      As a person living in BV for 20 years and knowing its history, I will answer the USSR in particular (Russia to a lesser extent), but they also contribute. I would say more without the USSR, half (even 75%) of the war in the war would not have been.
                    3. uhu189
                      uhu189 21 June 2013 14: 24
                      0
                      You know, dear atalef, you are of course right in many ways, the USSR did play along with the United States, but I can’t agree with your estimate in 75%. But if you put your hand on your heart - do not you notice a change in US policy in recent years?
                    4. atalef
                      atalef 21 June 2013 18: 15
                      0
                      Quote: uhu189
                      - Do not you notice changes in US policy in recent years?

                      Obama is certainly worse than Bush, but there is no significant difference.
    4. atalef
      atalef 20 June 2013 20: 29
      +1
      Quote: uhu189
      Vadim, I do not question the successes of the Israeli army and aviation, I’m just trying to explain to you that the situation is now very different from 1973.

      Only because we are much stronger than we were then.
    5. Vadivak
      Vadivak 20 June 2013 20: 35
      +4
      Quote: uhu189
      Then there were the rules - the confrontation between the two superpowers, ours for the Arabs, the USA for the Jews.


      And even earlier it was the opposite of Stalin for the Jews and all for the Arabs, understand Khrushchev destroyed all of Stalin’s politics, including international only because of personal revenge, that’s all turned upside down and went popular love for the Arabs, for me like that Turks are closer and more understandable to us, even though they don’t hide a knife behind their backs
  • Pimply
    Pimply 20 June 2013 17: 42
    +3
    Syria introduced 1200 tanks into the first shock fist. Then she introduced reinforcements. In the Golan there were 170 tanks at that time. 1 to 7.

    The Israelis won through tactics, maneuver, and better tank training and coordination. In addition, the initiative in the Israeli army was strongly developed, which also made it possible not to lose a unit if the commander was lost.

    In Egypt. On the morning of October 7th, 252 operational tanks of 103 remained in the 268nd division. By this time, Egypt had transported 90 people, 000 tanks and 850 armored personnel carriers, armored personnel carriers and vehicles to the eastern shore of the canal. At the same time, the first units of the 11nd reserve division of Abraham Adan and the 000rd reserve division of Ariel Sharon began to arrive. By evening, on the Sinai Front, Israel had 162 tanks in three divisions.

    Quote: uhu189
    On sights - but weren't ordinary sights better? And the Syrians didn’t go head-on to the fortified area? Hence the losses exceeding Israeli.


    At night? Well, how to say, not quite 8)
    1. uhu189
      uhu189 20 June 2013 17: 52
      +1
      1 to 7 ratio was only on the first day, then the Israelis transferred all reserves primarily to the Golan. In addition to tanks and ATGMs they had in defense, they also played a role, and helicopters and positions equipped in the engineering plan are very good, so it’s not very correct to compare only tanks. There are no miracles anyway, just because 1200 tanks cannot be stopped by initiative and tactics. But I do not plead their merits in the least - they won a well-deserved victory.

      )) Well, the battles not only took place at night, also happened during the day, and I even think more often.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 20 June 2013 18: 27
        +1
        Quote: uhu189
        )) Well, the battles not only took place at night, also happened during the day, and I even think more often.

        Naturally. The Israeli forces had an advantage in the range of the guns - somewhere per kilometer. Just the other day, they sorted out the topic

        http://u-96.livejournal.com/3077191.html

        The translation of the film, by the way, is terrible.
  • atalef
    atalef 20 June 2013 20: 28
    +2
    Quote: uhu189
    Yes, you are right among the Arabs the numerical superiority (even the Iraqi divisions forgot and Jordan also sent troops, if I am not mistaken, the Palestinians), only not all the tanks of Egypt and Syria participated in the offensive, the Egyptians advanced on a rather narrow front through the ridge, the Syrians on fortified positions in the Golan Heights, and

    Yes, yes, and the biggest problem they faced was that Israel also resisted.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 20 June 2013 16: 51
    +2
    Moreover, the new tanks did not have time to finish training: only about 70 crews were trained.

    Yes, do not forget that the hostilities involved: Jordan, Morocco, Sudan, Iraq.

    Saudi Arabia and Kuwait provided financial assistance and sent some troops to participate in the conflict. Morocco sent three brigades to the front; there were also many Palestinians in the ranks of the Arab troops. Pakistan sent sixteen pilots to the front.
    From 1971 to 1973, Libya supplied Mirage fighters to Egypt, and also provided assistance in the amount of $ 1 billion to prepare for the war. Algeria sent squadrons of fighters and bombers, brigades of soldiers and tanks. Tunisia sent about 1000 soldiers to the war, who fought with the Egyptians in the Nile Delta, Sudan sent 3500 soldiers.
    Iraq sent its expeditionary forces to the Golan comprising 30 soldiers, 000 tanks and 500 armored personnel carriers.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 20 June 2013 16: 41
    +1
    American aid began arriving in Israel after the Doomsday War itself. And since 1982, what's wrong?
    1. uhu189
      uhu189 20 June 2013 17: 13
      0
      Well, how can I say - after its beginning, to be more precise, but to its end.
      And with Lebanon - yes, it’s all there - they gained air supremacy over Lebanon thanks to the United States and their AWACS aircraft, which guided fighters on Syrian planes and allowed them to impose battle on unfavorable conditions for the Syrians. Plus, the anti-radar missiles, which the Israelis used to suppress the Syrian air defense, are a significant contribution to the victory, isn’t that so?
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 20 June 2013 17: 44
        +1
        Quote: uhu189
        And with Lebanon - yes, everything is there - they gained air supremacy over Lebanon thanks to the United States and their AWACS aircraft, which fired at Syrian planes and allowed them to accept the battle on unfavorable conditions. Plus, the anti-radar missiles, which the Israelis used to suppress the Syrian air defense, are a significant contribution to the victory, isn’t that so?


        Well, these are military purchases. Around the same time, the USSR helped Syria.
        1. uhu189
          uhu189 20 June 2013 18: 11
          +1
          Aircraft AWACS Hawk with aircraft carriers took off American, one of them even shot down by the Syrians. In addition, I met references that part of the phantoms from the American aircraft carrier flew to Israeli airfields to compensate for the losses and participate in battles (although whose pilots controlled them - the versions are different, I can’t say that the Americans don’t).
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 20 June 2013 18: 28
            +1
            Plz, any authoritative links on the topic.
            1. uhu189
              uhu189 20 June 2013 18: 59
              +1
              Well, I don’t know how authoritative the link will seem to you, but I read it here http://www.airwiki.org/history/locwar/bv/mig23/mig23.html. If in this article about the flight of phantoms there are no references, then on the same resource in others it was definitely met
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 20 June 2013 19: 38
                +1
                Ilyin. He has a lot of mistakes, rumors, unverified information. Even too much.
              2. uhu189
                uhu189 20 June 2013 21: 25
                +1
                Perhaps I don’t dare to judge, but I think there is no doubt about the fact of using hockeys. But in fact, we are arguing off topic, I’m not trying to belittle or exceed someone’s role, I just wanted to say that the presence of 40 aircraft cannot significantly improve the situation in the region, and an example of how a normal country can be driven into ruin for 2 years the help of the Islamists is available - Syria.
              3. Pimply
                Pimply 20 June 2013 21: 58
                0
                The question is what kind of aircraft. And they will obviously not be 40.
      2. Pimply
        Pimply 20 June 2013 23: 01
        +2
        AWACS aircraft were Israeli. Purchased in the USA.

        http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/lebanon-losses.htm

        Here in detail about all Israeli losses of the Air Force. Granovsky, in contrast to Shulman (whom the propaganda is delusional, with only an Israeli bias mowing down on such terry Soviet clothing) and Ilyin, gives everything very carefully and confirms his claims with documents.
        1. uhu189
          uhu189 21 June 2013 14: 25
          0
          Thanks for the link, be sure to read)
  • atalef
    atalef 20 June 2013 20: 26
    +2
    Quote: uhu189
    You will not believe it, dear Vadivak, but you read a lot. Especially the latter are very instructive - the Doomsday War and the Lebanese 1982. And in the course of all these wars, the United States helped Israel all - transferring cargo, ammunition and ammunition, compensating for losses in aircraft, transmitting intelligence. But then the wars were with the states, and now it’s already, I'm afraid not the states will

    Well, the Arabs somehow fought with their weapons, of which they (including the number of troops) had superiority at times, we can add the surprise of the attack, And the result is Syria without the Golan, Egypt has broken all ties with the USSR and it can continue indefinitely.
    1. ed65b
      ed65b 21 June 2013 15: 24
      0
      All is true, but not a weapon brings victory but a soldier. in 41-45 the best weapons did not help the Wehrmacht defeat the stamina and the will to win the Russian soldier. the time of the Arabs was left in the past together with bows and sabers. modern wars they do not export the wrong mentality. And you are lucky that you bite with the Arabs and not with the northern peoples.
  • Igarr
    Igarr 20 June 2013 15: 59
    +4
    What can I say ..
    if the Arabs trample on Israel, then it will not stand. But he will take a very fair number of adversaries with him to the "better world", especially when using special means.
    There will again be a desert.
    In two hundred years, again, there will be someone ... to lead the people there.
    Yes, that's just great, I doubt that .. a shaft. They are there and with each other with great enthusiasm are being cut.
    So, the Jewish comrades can only steer correctly. And how to shoot, they don’t ask anyone. And they don’t look at anyone.
    Enviously, right.
    We only had jokes about Holland.
    And they have come true - about the Golan.
    1. Apollo
      Apollo 20 June 2013 16: 20
      +5
      Quote: Igarr
      if the Arabs trample the rampart on Israel, then he will not stand


      Dear Igor hi

      There were such attempts, and what, how these attempts ended, we also know from recent history.
      The Arab world is heterogeneous, let’s take the Arabs of Palestine, for example, as they bicker between (supporters of Fatah Abbas and Hamas Ismail Haniyah) themselves.
      And the latter, some Arab countries have no reason to fight with Israel, for example, Jordan, Egypt, Algeria, etc.
    2. Vadivak
      Vadivak 20 June 2013 16: 41
      +4
      Quote: Igarr
      if the Arabs trample the rampart on Israel, then it will not stand.

      It was already withstood.
      Quote: Igarr
      Yes, that's just great, I doubt that .. a shaft. ABOUT

      Healthy thoughts are stated by Igor Vladimirovich
      1. Apollo
        Apollo 20 June 2013 16: 57
        +7
        Quote: Vadivak
        It was already withstood.



        I’ll be brief to myself, at that time I was 7 years old, we are talking about the 1973 year, the war in the Middle East was in full swing, I saw all these wars on TV, I saw and heard Israel, the aggressor, and so on. We competed with the United States, and waged a cold war with them. The USSR supported the Arab countries and the United States, Israel. I will write very frankly, my sympathies were on the side of the Arab countries, but after decades, having read a lot of literature on this subject, you come to the conclusion that everything is so simple.

        What we were told, "Israeli troops committed massacres in Sabra and Shatila (reference is the mass Palestinian camps in Lebanon) or Yasser Arafat is such a fluffy and good adamant leader of the Palestinian people. And then it turns out that the massacre of the refugees was perpetrated not by the Israelis, but by the Maronites of Lebanon." When I found out with whom Arafat was hanging around, there was a general sensation with the leader of the terrorist group Asala, who is interested in this organization, let him google it.
        You have it.

        Good afternoon Vadim hi drinks
        1. Vadivak
          Vadivak 20 June 2013 21: 18
          +3
          Quote: Apollon
          Good afternoon Vadim


          Always respectfully
        2. fzr1000
          fzr1000 21 June 2013 00: 20
          0
          But the army of Israel stood and looked at it. That was also.
    3. Pimply
      Pimply 20 June 2013 16: 43
      +2
      Already been, already perl. Val. Several countries at a time. Or do you propose the population of all the Arab countries will just go on foot and try to crush the mass of Israel?
      1. uhu189
        uhu189 20 June 2013 17: 19
        +1
        Perley. Israel answered, broke through the Suez Canal, broke through the Syrian defense and seized part of the territory of Syria. And then the USSR and the USA essentially forced to accept his truce. But then the question is - yes, the Arabs lost a lot of equipment, but would Israel have enough forces for a protracted war and occupation of the territory? Syria was not defeated, Iraq and even more so. Resources would be enough to hold on? And all this I began to, that now the conditions are different. No one will impose a truce on the warring parties, the war can be protracted and long, exhaustion, and without external assistance it is very difficult for a small country to endure such a war
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 20 June 2013 17: 48
          +2
          There was a war of attrition in 1967-70. There was a war in Lebanon, which dragged on until the year 2000. There was a War of Independence - all in much worse conditions.

          What occupation are you talking about? What for? A buffer zone would have been created, it is quite possible - the honor of the land was rejected and reparations were requested. Israel would have had enough strength for such a blow.
          1. uhu189
            uhu189 20 June 2013 21: 43
            0
            Okay, I won’t argue, maybe you’re right
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 20 June 2013 21: 59
              0
              Israel has a fairly large experience of protracted, long-term conflicts. The fact that they do not blaze most brightly every day does not mean that there is no fire from them.
  • KazaK Bo
    KazaK Bo 20 June 2013 18: 43
    0
    Quote: faraon
    you can ignore the S-300

    "Would you like calves, yes Vovka sists! Yes ... but" did you manage to order for peace? I recommend! Then, when there will be a command "Comrade S-300! Your word!" ... it will be too late ...
  • andrejwz
    andrejwz 20 June 2013 14: 48
    +2
    The Air Force has already begun work on the creation of a new infrastructure based aircraft F-35.

    Increased landing strip? laughing
  • individual
    individual 20 June 2013 14: 55
    +1
    USA-Israel, politics and business go side by side.
  • Tambov we ...
    Tambov we ... 20 June 2013 14: 55
    0
    In this batch, which is approaching, and which will then be called World War III, Israel, as a bargaining chip, is rolled into the sands of the Negev, together with their advancement here and there. It's a pity, but they wanted to bring a new mentality to the world ...
  • Alikovo
    Alikovo 20 June 2013 15: 09
    -1
    bought means still a flying ax.
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 20 June 2013 16: 03
      +1
      Quote: Alikovo
      bought means still a flying ax.


      From reliable sources received information ....
  • uhu189
    uhu189 20 June 2013 15: 36
    +1
    But will the Israeli state survive to the 2016-2017 year in this situation in the region? If Assad is still broken in Syria, I can’t even imagine what could start in the region in half a year, not like in 3. In Egypt, the situation is simply disastrous, they live only at the expense of gold reserves and loans, and if Syria is also defeated ... F-35 will not save them, after all ... Yes, nothing will save them
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 20 June 2013 16: 44
      0
      Learn the history of the region. Now it’s not as bad as it used to be.
      1. uhu189
        uhu189 20 June 2013 17: 26
        +2
        I am a little familiar with the history, and not only of this region. The difference is very big - the United States has never supported forces hostile to Israel, but now it does. This is the main thing. Priorities have changed
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 20 June 2013 17: 45
          +1
          Supported. Saudi Arabia, for example, Iraq - a lot can be listed there.
        2. atalef
          atalef 20 June 2013 20: 41
          -1
          Quote: uhu189
          The United States has never supported forces hostile to Israel, but now it does.

          Saudi Arabia and Qatar? They are definitely not our enemies, and a long time ago
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 20 June 2013 21: 16
            0
            I would not say so
    2. atalef
      atalef 20 June 2013 20: 40
      0
      Quote: uhu189
      But will the Israeli state survive to 2016-2017 in such a situation in the region? E

      It was worse, now even very nothing
      Quote: uhu189
      In Egypt, the situation is simply disastrous, they live only at the expense of gold reserves and loans,

      you think with a bare ass they trample on us?

      Quote: uhu189
      and if Syria is also defeated.

      It seems to me that 3 years ago Syria was somehow stronger than now, and if it is crushed and falls apart, it will certainly become stronger.
  • Russ69
    Russ69 20 June 2013 16: 01
    0
    Latest news from mattresses

    The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program is on the right track, but still some key steps have to be completed, Pentagon officials said at a meeting of the Senate Commission on June 19, Defense News reported.
    “In general, the program is working stably today, but there are still some technical problems that need to be addressed,” said Frank Kendall, US Under Secretary of Defense for Procurement, Technology and Logistics, to the planners. It is necessary to complete the development of software blocks, a high-tech pilot helmet, as well as a brake hook for the deck version of the F-35C.
    “I believe the program has become more sustainable than it was before. A fifth generation airplane is needed for our military aircraft, but we made some mistakes in the acquisition process. But I hope that today's meeting will allow us to learn from these mistakes. If we create future technology to counter threats of the future, and we will use the requirements and technologies of 12 years ago (probably we mean the year of the first flight of the prototype F-35 - approx. “VP”), we will make mistakes, ”the chairman of the subcommittee said Senator Dick Durbin.
    The program manager, Lieutenant General Christopher Bogdan, once again warned against the continuing threat of "parallelism in development", which leads to a rise in the cost of the program and the need to make "numerous corrections" in the process of fine-tuning all three versions of the aircraft.
    It was also reported that the American fighters in the initial combat configuration will be equipped with the software blocks Block 2B (for F-35B, 2015, and F-35A, 2016) and Block 3F (for F-35C, should be ready for delivery at the end of 2017), and for the foreign air forces Block 3I will be developed (probably stands for International - “international” - approx. “VP”).
    The development of the initial Block 2A package with disabilities was supposed to be completed in February this year, but in fact it will be done somewhere between January and August 2014, flight tests of the next Block 2B version are likely to continue until December 2014 (lagging behind schedule from six to 12 months).
    Michael Sullivan, director of the government’s Accountability Office, said the Pentagon will send about $ 34 billion to buy the next 150 aircraft when negotiations for the seventh installment of fighter jets are completed. According to him, in conditions when only less than half of the required number of flight tests is completed, the F-35 program will continue to be vulnerable to the “consequences of parallelism.”
  • pensioner
    pensioner 20 June 2013 16: 12
    +1
    Take it, take it ... Then, of course, throw it away, but for now, take it ...
  • awg75
    awg75 20 June 2013 16: 25
    +3
    I would like to wish that every Jewish (and not only) F-35 got its own personal rocket from the S-300 (and not only)
  • Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 20 June 2013 18: 28
    +2
    What is Israel doing ... it feels like Jews are just mocking .. a small country (artificially created) has nuclear weapons and the most modern weapons .. has a strong lobby in all countries of the world .. And all the presidents of the countries of the planet listen to them .. (and Russia number) ... in Israel there is a continuous desert .. and on the map you can pin it with a pin .. But the budget .. with their capabilities, any conflicts can be stopped if you want to, but no, they are constantly straining, they intrigue fight .... The same Golan .. let ours there they will place the block of posts .. it will be quiet after all .. (not immediately of course) .. Something is obviously being planned again (another Holocaust ...)))))
    1. igor67
      igor67 20 June 2013 18: 38
      +1
      Quote: MIKHAN
      What is Israel doing ... it feels like Jews are just mocking .. a small country (artificially created) has nuclear weapons and the most modern weapons .. has a strong lobby in all countries of the world .. And all the presidents of the countries of the planet listen to them .. (and Russia number) ... in Israel there is a continuous desert .. and on the map you can pin it with a pin .. But the budget .. with their capabilities, any conflicts can be stopped if you want to, but no, they are constantly straining, they intrigue fight .... The same Golan .. let ours there they will place the block of posts .. it will be quiet after all .. (not immediately of course) .. Something is obviously being planned again (another Holocaust ...)))))
      ,
      The usual upgrade of the fleet, Israel’s armed with airplanes that are from 30 to 20 years old, f 22 amers did not sell, they have a law prohibiting, so we buy f35,
    2. Vadivak
      Vadivak 20 June 2013 20: 46
      +3
      Quote: MIKHAN
      small country (artificially created)


      Comrade Stalin. By the way, he had big plans for Israel, but this must be read.
      Quote: MIKHAN
      ..in Israel a continuous desert.

      Where delicious celery grows. Only buy it
      Quote: MIKHAN
      Something clearly plotting again (another Holocaust ...)))))

      Will the Israelis put Jews in camps?
  • ed65b
    ed65b 20 June 2013 18: 28
    0
    Hello. Why did everyone twitch ???? Well, Jewish partners will buy lightings for themselves, what will happen ??? Will they attack Russia tomorrow ??? Let them buy, exploit, their climate is "harsh" with snow and rain, then we will read how the technology has shown itself. The money is still American, as I understand it, but for free and sweet vinegar. In general, the topic, there is nothing to discuss, so for information.
  • Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 20 June 2013 18: 38
    +1
    Quote: ed65b
    Hello. Why did everyone twitch ???? Well, Jewish partners will buy lightings for themselves, what will happen ??? Will they attack Russia tomorrow ??? Let them buy, exploit, their climate is "harsh" with snow and rain, then we will read how the technology has shown itself. The money is still American, as I understand it, but for free and sweet vinegar. In general, the topic, there is nothing to discuss, so for information.

    Israel doesn’t buy weapons for parades .. And they never have freebies .. they take their own (as a percentage))) so I think soon they will start bombing anyone else except Syria and Iran .. maybe Qatar or Saudi. ??? or even cooler Azerbaijan .. heh heh ... We will see for now ..
  • ed65b
    ed65b 20 June 2013 18: 46
    0
    Israel doesn’t buy weapons for parades .. And they never have freebies .. they take their

    Eka you my friend lagged behind life. German submarines recently presented to Israel remember ???? so it happens. and you minus me
  • Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 20 June 2013 19: 00
    +2
    Well, thanks for the clarification .. I confess I am not an anti-Semite and not a Natsik. I'm just wondering why such a "tax" benefit to this small country .. and that's it ..
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 20 June 2013 19: 42
      0
      Sinai and the peace treaty. Israel gave the richest piece of land with oil and gas twice its size. Egypt receives the same amount. It’s just that he has it broken down differently - 1.75 billion for weapons, the rest for food programs. This cheese is not free, so you don’t think - Sinai could generate incomes many times more than US military assistance.
    2. igor67
      igor67 20 June 2013 19: 45
      +1
      Quote: MIKHAN
      Well, thanks for the clarification .. I confess I am not an anti-Semite and not a Natsik. I'm just wondering why such a "tax" benefit to this small country .. and that's it ..

      You are generally careful on the site or just to pee, here Pupyrchaty probably already one hundred and five dozen first time writes that Israel and Egypt receive the same amount of 3 milliliters each from the USA, but are required to buy only American weapons, where is the benefit? It’s good that they even started to produce their own small arms and tanks, Do you think it’s normal to sit on subsidies and not develop your own production? Taxes jobs
      1. Arkan
        Arkan 20 June 2013 20: 04
        +1
        Quote: igor67
        Do you think it’s normal to sit on subsidies and not develop your own production? Taxes jobs

        Well, refuse this subsidy if it is a burden to Israel laughing . As soon as you manage, getting virtually free military-technical assistance to find a reason for discontent wassat ?
        Quote: Pimply
        Israel gave the richest piece of land with oil and gas twice its size

        What does "Israel give" mean? Does Israel consider any piece of land where a Jewish soldier has been?
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 20 June 2013 20: 45
          0
          Because it is not free. This is due to a number of severe political restrictions. For example, because of this help, the Lavi plane did not go into the series.

          Quote: Arkan
          What does "Israel give" mean? Does Israel consider any piece of land where a Jewish soldier has been?

          Israel recaptured this site in the war, and effectively restrained it. The USSR so-so took a piece of Finland. Yes, if you can hold it is yours. Do you doubt it?
  • ed65b
    ed65b 20 June 2013 19: 13
    -3
    So it turned out that the Jews bent all the camps of the "western" world and now they are babosiks from everywhere. Well done.
  • Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 20 June 2013 19: 35
    0
    Well, it’s not yet evening .. hehe He’s arrogant nowhere to love ..
    1. atalef
      atalef 20 June 2013 20: 44
      +2
      Quote: MIKHAN
      Well, it’s not yet evening .. hehe He’s arrogant nowhere to love ..

      Exactly, Syria has not returned a dime (neither in the past nor in the present) for 14 billion. Forgiven, another 4 gave.
      They are not arrogant, they simply do not return. laughing
    2. Pimply
      Pimply 20 June 2013 20: 46
      0
      Strong do not like.
      1. Vadivak
        Vadivak 20 June 2013 20: 52
        +2
        Quote: Pimply
        Strong do not like.


        \ A smart hate
        1. atalef
          atalef 20 June 2013 21: 04
          +1
          Quote: Vadivak
          A smart hate

          Hi Vadim, but they wipe their feet on the weak - I would like to add
          1. Vadivak
            Vadivak 20 June 2013 21: 20
            +2
            Quote: atalef
            Hi Vadim, but they wipe the feet of the weak


            Hi Sasha, the Arabs will definitely wipe
        2. Pimply
          Pimply 20 June 2013 21: 17
          -1
          Exactly
  • DPN
    DPN 20 June 2013 19: 53
    0
    Israel seems to be something like a testing ground for running in new advanced technology for the United States, not far from its likely Opponent.
  • Katsin
    Katsin 20 June 2013 19: 56
    +5
    Quote: Hedgehog
    Quote: cartridge
    Israel has an anniversary this year - 65 years on the neck of the USA!

    You are absolutely wrong. SSHANIA began to turn its neck at the very end of the 60s of the last century. And Israel perched on their neck with US help in the very beginning of the 70s. Since then it flies.



    Israel's annual budget is $ 108 billion. Of these, US assistance is 3.2 billion. That is 3% of the budget. And the benefits to America are huge, the only reliable and strong ally in the Middle East
  • Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 20 June 2013 20: 01
    +1
    Quote: igor67
    Quote: MIKHAN
    Well, thanks for the clarification .. I confess I am not an anti-Semite and not a Natsik. I'm just wondering why such a "tax" benefit to this small country .. and that's it ..

    You are generally careful on the site or just to pee, here Pupyrchaty probably already one hundred and five dozen first time writes that Israel and Egypt receive the same amount of 3 milliliters each from the USA, but are required to buy only American weapons, where is the benefit? It’s good that they even started to produce their own small arms and tanks, Do you think it’s normal to sit on subsidies and not develop your own production? Taxes jobs

    I may have read the "pimply" ... that's not the point .. It's just that Israel is a very "mysterious" state formation ... and I don't understand with their capabilities and lobbies in all countries everyone is at war ... they are building up their armaments ... with their capabilities of all Arabs would be bought or easier .. the most arrogant .. (they know how when necessary) .. I think if they want this war in the region will stop .. or am I wrong ??? So there is an incentive for chapters 8 to gather and solve the problems of Israel .. very interesting .. it turns out ..
    1. igor67
      igor67 20 June 2013 20: 16
      0
      Vitaly if you take history so all states and Russia, including, are "mysterious" formations, I do not know what is now written in the history textbook, but when I studied more than 30 years ago, then the Russian Empire was up to its present size. It came through wars. We were forced to learn dates, so let's not stoop to the boulevard, to love Israel and the Jews, I do not force you and I do not ask, let's just approach wisely. Since Germany pays for something, well, for a reason, and I don’t even know where the payments go, my grandfather was a Jew and his brother died at Stalingrad, and we didn’t have property like European Jews, naturally, and payments from Germany are the same
    2. Pimply
      Pimply 20 June 2013 20: 47
      -1
      Israel is a very convenient target for pitting off internal irritations. You noticed - those countries with which it does not have a peace treaty are fighting with Israel. Those who have do not live in their own life. And Israel for some reason does not attack them. Mystic.
      1. igor67
        igor67 20 June 2013 20: 52
        +1
        Photo: frame of the Second Channel ITV. In the photo: illustration
        The chief Ashkenazi rabbi of Israel, Jonah Metziger, was detained this morning by police on suspicion of receiving bribes, fraud, deception of public trust and laundering of capital acquired by dishonest means. Previously, the police received accurate information that the employees of Metziger’s office take bribes and share them with their supervisor.

        As the investigation found out, Metziger is also suspected of appropriating the capital received as donations for religious purposes.

        This morning, police raided the house where Metziger lives and in his office. Documents were seized, electronic media were confiscated, the bank accounts of the rabbi and his property were seized.

        At the same time, a senior religious official himself was arrested and taken to the police office of unit 443 in Lod, where he will have to answer numerous questions from investigators.

        The second ITV channel reports that for several months the police conducted a closed investigation against Metziger.

        Earlier, Metziger appeared in court on charges of a series of corruption crimes, but was acquitted for lack of evidence.

        The arrest warrant for Rabbi Metsiger was signed by the legal adviser to the head of government, Yehud Weinstein, Israel’s chief prosecutor, Moshe Lador, and police prefect Johanan Danino. laughing interesting plant?
        1. Vadivak
          Vadivak 20 June 2013 21: 02
          +1
          Quote: igor67
          Rabbi arrest warrant

          Fig yourself and in appearance such a respectable old man
          1. atalef
            atalef 20 June 2013 21: 07
            0
            Quote: Vadivak
            Fig yourself and in appearance such a respectable old man

            All ages are submissive to money
          2. Pimply
            Pimply 20 June 2013 21: 19
            0
            Katsav also looked like that. Sits for rape.
        2. atalef
          atalef 20 June 2013 21: 07
          +2
          Quote: igor67
          interesting plant?

          If they put him in prison, it’s just not with Katsav, and then he’s still starving him t / r / a / x / n / e / t / wassat
          1. igor67
            igor67 20 June 2013 21: 14
            +2
            Quote: atalef
            Quote: igor67
            interesting plant?

            If they put him in prison, it’s just not with Katsav, and then he’s still starving him t / r / a / x / n / e / t / wassat

            And in the same cell, the former president of the country with the chief rabbi, everything is so democratic wassat
            1. atalef
              atalef 20 June 2013 21: 26
              +3
              Quote: igor67
              And in the same cell, the former president of the country with the chief rabbi, everything is so democratic

              Two tolerasts, our friends would say.
            2. Apollo
              Apollo 20 June 2013 22: 49
              +2
              Quote: igor67
              And in the same cell, the former president of the country with the chief rabbi, everything is so democratic


              you have a complaint while you write here the coffee factory stopped, left Israel without coffee. This is called sabotage wassat
              1. igor67
                igor67 20 June 2013 22: 52
                +2
                Quote: Apollon
                Quote: igor67
                And in the same cell, the former president of the country with the chief rabbi, everything is so democratic


                you have a complaint while you write here the coffee factory stopped, left Israel without coffee. This is called sabotage wassat

                After 9 minutes, the shift ends, I did not reach everything until sabotage drinks
              2. atalef
                atalef 20 June 2013 22: 52
                +3
                Quote: Apollon
                you have a complaint while you write here the coffee factory stopped, left Israel without coffee. This is called sabotage

                Hi Apollo. He has more than half the coffee exported to Russia. I would say that he is just a pest of pestilence
                bully
                1. Apollo
                  Apollo 21 June 2013 13: 48
                  +2
                  Quote: atalef
                  pestilence


                  world, or rather
                  1. atalef
                    atalef 21 June 2013 18: 10
                    -1
                    Quote: Apollon
                    world, or rather


                    Hi Apollo, translit pancake steamed. I make mistakes worse than a first-grader.
                    If you see moronic errors - it means I'm working at work with the English keyboard crying
        3. Pimply
          Pimply 20 June 2013 21: 18
          +1
          There is a chance, and I would say - rather big.
  • Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 20 June 2013 20: 22
    +1
    Okay, the topic "painful" has been touched upon. I just think it's strange that's all .. Russia is trying to bring down the flames, and they pour in and pour in benzinchik. Weapons like all types in the Middle East have been tested .. Nuclear weapons remained .. ???
  • rapid1934
    rapid1934 20 June 2013 20: 31
    0
    The Jews have another 3 years and they will take the entot plane if it will fly and carry out their tasks.
    So far this is pure advertising. We will wait 3 years and see whether the Americans can bring the plane to mind or not.
  • Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 20 June 2013 21: 19
    0
    Quote: rapid1934
    The Jews have another 3 years and they will take the entot plane if it will fly and carry out their tasks.
    So far this is pure advertising. We will wait 3 years and see whether the Americans can bring the plane to mind or not.

    You're right, it's just that ... Although Israel especially does not like PR on the planet .. they use weapons without any sanctions, etc. .. and silence usually begins in the world media .. That's a mystery ..)))
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 20 June 2013 22: 00
      -1
      You see the wrong world media read. The Arab-Israeli conflict is a favorite topic. Not a single conflict is more illuminated than he is.
  • pensioner
    pensioner 20 June 2013 21: 31
    0
    Not like thoughtful Jews. Unless they take this wunderwaffle for nothing ...
  • Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 20 June 2013 21: 34
    +1
    Quote: atalef
    Quote: MIKHAN
    He feels the smell of fried. The bombing of Syria and Iran will be remembered soon.

    after 7 years there will be airplanes.
    fool

    Or maybe in 40 years .. heh he gne someday in Australia a good country is quiet and there are no Arabs .. I think a good option .. You just clung to Jerusalem .. what holds you there ??? Shrines ... ?? I doubt very much ..
    1. atalef
      atalef 20 June 2013 21: 42
      0
      [quote = MIKHAN] Or maybe after 40 years .. heh he gne someday in Australia a good country is quiet and there are no Arabs [/ quote]
      Have you ever been to Australia? But the message is good (+) to you, in 40 years, even in Australia there will be no Arabs.

      [quote = MIHAN] I think a good option [/ quote]
      Wonderful, I would say, the truth would not say Arabs, but Islamists, but it’s more clear

      yauote = MIKHAN] You just clung to Jerusalem .. what holds you there [/ quote]
      And how is Moscow just a little town for you, or is it something in your heart?
      [quote = MIHAN] Shrines ... ?? I doubt very much. [/ quote]
      Well, for you in Jerusalem there is nothing sacred, as I understand it?
  • Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 20 June 2013 21: 56
    0
    Quote: Vadivak
    Quote: MIKHAN
    Israel is arming heavily. It feels like a fried smell.


    Israel is already better armed than all the Arab countries combined, and it smells fried since its founding, and mainly for Arabs.

    Then the question is if they are so cool in this region .. Why can't they solve this conflict themselves? Is there a special service at the world level ... ??? Under the USSR, there were quiet ones ... now quiet people .. G-8 is being assembled for their sake ... Russia just got tired of all this mess ...
    1. atalef
      atalef 20 June 2013 22: 43
      +1
      Quote: MIKHAN
      Russia is simply tired of all this mess ...

      Everyone on BV is engaged in flaring and there is nothing to do with it. Why doesn’t Russia take care of Rwanda or Congo with Chad?
  • Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 20 June 2013 22: 11
    +1
    Quote: igor67
    Vitaly if you take history so all states and Russia, including, are "mysterious" formations, I do not know what is now written in the history textbook, but when I studied more than 30 years ago, then the Russian Empire was up to its present size. It came through wars. We were forced to learn dates, so let's not stoop to the boulevard, to love Israel and the Jews, I do not force you and I do not ask, let's just approach wisely. Since Germany pays for something, well, for a reason, and I don’t even know where the payments go, my grandfather was a Jew and his brother died at Stalingrad, and we didn’t have property like European Jews, naturally, and payments from Germany are the same

    There is no need here for Nazi Germany to immediately attach the Holocaust, etc. I understand everything (although we are Russians (Slavs) to many people and what we could show and payments as you like ... we just don't need it)) I already wrote that I don't anti-Semite, etc .. I'm just interested in this "artificial state" with nuclear weapons and modern weapons .. like the navel of the earth like ??? (The next payments with whom to derban start .. ???) .. Maybe rude, but really ..
  • sergey158-29
    sergey158-29 20 June 2013 22: 26
    +2
    As I see the photo of the F-35, the Yak-141 seems to be ... ... it's a pity he did not survive the dashing 90s!
  • Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 20 June 2013 22: 28
    +1
    [quote = atalef] [quote = MIKHAN] Or maybe in 40 years .. hehe hell somewhere in Australia a good country is quiet and there are no Arabs [/ quote]
    Have you ever been to Australia? But the message is good (+) to you, in 40 years, even in Australia there will be no Arabs.

    [quote = MIHAN] I think a good option [/ quote]
    Wonderful, I would say, the truth would not say Arabs, but Islamists, but it’s more clear

    yauote = MIKHAN] You just clung to Jerusalem .. what holds you there [/ quote]
    And how is Moscow just a little town for you, or is it something in your heart?
    [quote = MIHAN] Shrines ... ?? I doubt very much. [/ quote]
    Well for you in Jerusalem there is nothing sacred, as I understand it? [/ Quote]
    So I already wrote that Israel is an artificial education .. The most interesting is none of you answered me .. And everyone starts to ask me questions .. Moscow’s soul, well, everything is clear .. Berezovsky still remember the innocently strangled (after losing a couple billion .. and impossibility steal ..)))) No offense men ..
    1. atalef
      atalef 20 June 2013 22: 49
      +1
      Quote: MIKHAN
      So I already wrote that Israel is an artificial education

      Well, you’re still the same authority, as well as a connoisseur of history. You don’t seem to be Mikhan (for real) and the photo is clearly not yours - you’re kind of artificial, but mowing for the present. How are we with analogies?

      Quote: MIKHAN
      Berezovsky still remember the innocently strangled (after losing a couple of billion .. and the inability to steal ..)

      Russian, Orthodox Plato? What do we have to do with it?

      From September 2003 until the end of his life he permanently resided in the UK as a political refugee; had a passport of a British citizen in the name of Plato Elenin [16] (the BBC news service indicated that Plato is the name of the hero of the film “Oligarch” [16]). He was a citizen of Russia. In 1996, renounced Israeli citizenship [17].
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 20 June 2013 23: 07
        +1
        Quote: atalef
        had a passport of a British citizen in the name of Plato Elenin

        What is characteristic, they didn’t bother him in the end by any means on the passport ... lol
  • Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 20 June 2013 22: 52
    +2
    And in response to silence .. gee gee I’m all silent I’m all saying Israel is the navel of the world. !!!. (And want to pick it so that the whole world starts up ...)
    1. igor67
      igor67 20 June 2013 23: 58
      0
      At the expense of the navel of the Earth, here your truth in the Temple of the Holy Sepulcher is the so-called navel of the earth,
  • Glory to Russia.
    Glory to Russia. 21 June 2013 01: 04
    0
    про национализм[media=http://vk.com/video38958999_165405304?list=415a6a5f4b8ce08c96]
  • ed65b
    ed65b 21 June 2013 09: 37
    +2
    This is how articles on procurement and operation develop during the discussion into an eternal dispute who is to blame and what to do? Jews are a priori to blame (such karma) and what the Arabs do no one knows.
    And so we live, everyone grazes on his own thread-branch, the crowd extinguishes one, I see nothing and I don’t hear this law. In general, everything is as in life - piled up heaped up, nothing changes. Stalinists there, Jews dug in here, the Armenian-Azerbaijani brawl somewhere nearby. the forum smoothly turns into bullshit, before tankers appeared flyers. but the gopota crushed, people stopped talking. yes and to whom ????