Constructive vulnerabilities of the main combat vehicle AOI "Merkava Mk.4". Continuation

In connection with the discussion of the article devoted to the constructive vulnerabilities of the main AOI combat vehicle “Merkava Mk.4”, and raising questions about the methods of anti-tank combat, a continuation of this article describing the peculiarities of the impact of a volume explosion and kinetic shells on armored vehicles with front-mounted engines is offered to attention. offices (MTO).

At present, ammunition of volumetric explosion has become widespread in the armies of many states, including the countries of the Middle East. The range of ammunition includes hand grenades, rocket launchers, guided missiles, artillery shells, rockets and aviation Bombs.

Ammunition of a volume explosion is divided into two groups - volume-detonating and thermobaric.

The space-detonating ammunition contains sprayed fuel and two explosive charges - one for spraying fuel, the other for undermining the air-fuel mixture, works in three stages:
- spray aerosol of fuel;
- formation of a cloud of the fuel-air mixture;
- undermining the clouds of the fuel-air mixture.

The minimum fuel weight cannot be less than 20 kg. With detonation in the center of the cloud of the fuel-air mixture, the pressure reaches 150 kgf / sq. Cm, at the boundary of the cloud the pressure decreases to 1 kgf / sq. Cm.

Thermobaric ammunition contains sprayed fuel and oxidizer, as well as the charge of explosive - sprayer / detonator, works in two stages:
- undermining the explosive charge and spraying the fuel-oxidant mixture;
- explosive combustion of the mixture in the front of the shock wave.

The minimum weight of thermobaric ammunition can be 100 grams. The only drawback is two times less TNT equivalent than the volume-detonating ammunition due to less involvement of oxygen in the process of burning.

A Russian-made volume explosion ammunition includes several types of detonating air bombs, as well as a 9М55С missile with a thermobaric warhead for the Smerch MLRS, a thermobaric shot for the TOC Buratino, a thermobaric shot for the RPG-32 / Khashim’s grenade launcher, a Khimimosky RPG-7 / Khashimo bomb. TBG-7B to the RPG-60, a hand-held grenade RG-40TB, a shot of the VG-XNUMXTB for a grenade launcher, as well as guided missiles with a thermobaric warhead to several types of ATGM, including the Cornet-E.

In addition, there are specialized hand-held rocket launchers of the type RPO PDM-A “Shmel-M”. The thermobaric warhead of the rocket grenade with the TNT equivalent of 9,6 kg includes the sprayed mixture — fine powder of magnesium and aluminum (fuel) and isopropyl nitrate (oxidizer) with a mass of 3,2 kg, as well as an okfola charge (explosive) with a mass of 0,6 kg.

The explosive combustion of the fuel-oxidative mixture creates in the epicenter pressure up to 100 kgf / sq. Cm and a temperature of the order of 800 degrees Celsius. At the periphery of the explosion, the pressure decreases to 1 kgf / sq. In an explosion in a confined space, thermobaric ammunition affects military equipment, including the breaking through of 10-mm steel armor.

Tanks with front-mounted MTOs during a frontal attack, they are exposed to a volume explosion by sucking the fuel-oxidative mixture into the engine air path and into the cooled MTO volume, after which the mixture explodes under the influence of a detonation wave from detonating explosive ordnance or from contact with heated engine surfaces.

On the contrary, tanks with rear MTO in a frontal attack with a volume explosion ammunition are protected from suction of the fuel and oxidative mixture by the screen of the hull and turret, which prevent the mixture from spreading in the direction of the MTO.

The tank "Merkava" intake air to power the engine through a horizontal opening in the roof of the hull, located on the front right. Air is taken in to cool the engine through the front vertical opening in the right sponson of the housing. Therefore, the layout features of the Merkava tank, which distinguish it from all other main battle tanks with the classic layout, make it possible to defeat MTO with the help of a volume explosion ammunition directed to the upper front or right side projection of the Merkava.

Naturally, before firing a rocket-propelled grenade or guided missile, it is necessary to neutralize the standard system of the SAZ Trophy. Existing large-caliber sniper rifles with high-multiplicity optical sights make it possible to disable openly located SAZ radars at a distance of up to 2000 meters. As such, we can consider the rifle TSR-50 caliber 12,7 mm produced by the United Arab Emirates.

An internal explosion of the fuel-oxidative mixture in the air path of the engine disables it and requires subsequent overhaul. An internal explosion in the cooled volume of the MTO is fraught with failure of the automatic fire extinguishing system, damage to the fuel lines and ignition of diesel fuel.

As shown by documentary footage of extinguishing a fire in the MTO "Merkava" with a failed fire extinguishing system, it is possible to extinguish the flames only by eliminating the flow of air by putting the machine to sleep. In the event of a fire at a tank-based location, a construction excavator was used. On the battlefield, MTO will completely burn out, with a high probability of fire, an ammunition of shots in contact with the partition between the MTO and the fighting compartment, since the burning time clearly exceeds the guaranteed 45 minutes of fire resistance of fiberglass containers of shots.

The effect of the use of a thermobaric rocket grenade / guided missile is also a multiple decrease in the need for ammunition to destroy one Merkava tank. As is known, in the Second Lebanon War 2006 of the year, to ensure the loss of progress of one tank, it was necessary to make on average up to ten accurate shots of Kornet-E anti-tank systems with a tandem cumulative warhead. The weakened cumulative jet, if it penetrated the composite exploded protection, in most cases could not destroy the internal equipment of the tank or cause a fire that was beyond the capacity of an automatic fire extinguishing system.

In contrast to the cumulative thermobaric ammunition with a single accurate hit, it provides at least a loss of travel, and, at maximum, a fire of the Merkava tank.

The only tactical method that allows you to avoid defeat of MTO by a volume explosion ammunition is the withdrawal of Merkava tanks for a distance exceeding the range of an aimed shot from a large-caliber sniper rifle, i.e. over a distance of 2000 meters. For the future, it is possible to predict the appearance of special anti-radar warheads of the ATGM with ready-made attack elements having a range of up to 4-6 km and undermined even before the missile enters the SAZ of the tank.

At large distances, the influence of the heat flux from the engine in front of the engine on the clarity of the target image in the Merkava sight, located to the right of the gun, significantly increases. In order to eliminate this influence, the crew is forced to turn the tank hull twenty or more degrees to the left from the direction of the horizontal guidance of the gun. At the same time, the hull forehead protected by the engine goes away, and the lightly armored hull board turns out to be in the enemy's line of fire.

In this position, the diversified protection of the Merkava board (a composite screen of the order of 70 mm and steel armor of 80 mm) is punched through the 120-125 mm with a stencil armor-piercing projectile from a distance of the order of 3-4 km. While the combined frontal armor protection of the hull and turret of main battle tanks with a classic layout, firing without turning the cannon on its side, equivalent to 1000 or more millimeters of steel armor, does not penetrate at a specified distance with projectiles fired from the Merkava gun.

In this regard, for the AOI for the period up to 2020 of the year (the planned launch date for the new Rakia tank), it is important to replace the Merkava with another armored vehicle - a full-featured OBT to directly support infantry on the battlefield, especially in urban areas . The most suitable candidate from the point of view of accessibility is the American Abrams tank in the modification M1A2 CEP TUSK with tandem dynamic protection of the ARAT-2 sides.

The likelihood of such a decision in the near future is evidenced by the US actions to create advanced warehouses of military equipment, including tanks, on Israeli territory, with the officially declared goal of accelerating the air movement of US military personnel to the Middle East in the event of a military conflict. But, most likely, it is planned to create an armored reserve for the Israel Defense Forces in the event of large-scale combat losses of Merkava tanks.

Source of information: RU 2415119 patent http://www.findpatent.ru/patent/241/2415119.html

Comments

[Professor]

Frontal MTO tanks in a frontal attack are exposed to a volumetric explosion by sucking the fuel-oxidant mixture into the engine's airway and into the cooled procurement volume, after which an internal explosion of the mixture occurs under the action of a detonation wave from explosive ammunition explosive or contact with heated engine surfaces .
On the contrary, tanks with rear MTO in a frontal attack with a volume explosion ammunition are protected from suction of the fuel and oxidative mixture by the screen of the hull and turret, which prevent the mixture from spreading in the direction of the MTO.

Such a small cloud-selective, not covering the entire tank. And when will they hit the tank from behind or from the side?

The tank "Merkava" air intake for powering the engine is made through a horizontal hole in the roof of the hull, located on the front right. Air intake for cooling the engine is made through the front vertical hole in the right sponson of the housing.

only if?

In this regard, for the IDF for the period up to 2020 of the year (the planned deadline for putting into service the new Rakia tank), the urgent issue is the possibility of replacing the Merkava with another armored vehicle - a fully functional MBT to directly support infantry on the battlefield, especially in urban areas .

The author is a dreamer.

The most suitable candidate from the point of view of accessibility is the American Abrams tank in the M1A2 CEP TUSK modification with the ARAT-2 tandem dynamic side protection.
The likelihood of such a decision in the near future is evidenced by the US actions to create advanced warehouses of military equipment, including tanks, on Israeli territory, with the officially declared goal of accelerating the air movement of US military personnel to the Middle East in the event of a military conflict. But, most likely, it is planned to create an armored reserve for the Israel Defense Forces in the event of large-scale combat losses of Merkava tanks.

Rave. how does the author imagine the introduction of Abrams into battle by crews who saw them only at the National Geographic? Retrain in a week? The wars in the region are fleeting ...
All weapons in American warehouses located in Israel correspond to the nomenclature already adopted in Israel for armament.

[bask]

Quote: Professor

Rave. how the author imagines the introduction of Abramsov into the battle by the crews who only saw them

But the question is not without logic. ,, Abrams ,, was created by the SUSHA for the sole purpose. As an anti-tank weapon against Soviet tanks in Europe. ((Does not have in the BC OFS)).
Not when the Merkavs took part in tank battles, they were always used by the IDF against the rebels as an assault weapon.
And amers insure Israel, creating warehouses ,, Abramsov ,,.
And suddenly Egypt will hit the next time.

[Ascetic]

Quote: bask

But the question is not without logic. ,, Abrams ,, was created by the SUSHA for the sole purpose. As an anti-tank weapon against Soviet tanks in Europe. ((Does not have in the BC OFS)).

By the way, the first Abrams were shot down by the Soviet T-72 during a break-in march by three T-72 tanks in the area of ​​Southern Lebanon shortly before the Israeli aggression against this country (Operation Peace Halle) in 1982.
Details here

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: Ascetic

By the way, the first Abrams were shot down by the Soviet T-72 during a break-in march by three T-72 tanks in the region of southern Lebanon shortly before the Israeli aggression against this country (Operation Peace Halle) in

"Don't read Soviet newspapers before breakfast." Listen, but can you read that serious if you are interested in the topic? The T-72 tanks were in 1982 in the arsenal of only the First Armored Division of the SAR, which practically did not participate in battles. She controlled the Beirut-Damascus highway. They themselves irretrievably lost one or two vehicles during the anti-tank ambush of Israeli paratroopers, did not participate in battles with Israeli tankers at all. Second., Abramsami tanks never stood in service with the IDF. Only a person who has never served can imagine the use of individual machines at the front line, outside the composition of a cohesive unit, without logistics and without a built-in system of interaction with other units. It's ridiculous.

[reichsmarshal]

They themselves irretrievably lost one or two vehicles during the anti-tank ambush of Israeli paratroopers, did not participate in battles with Israeli tankers at all.

Not certainly in that way. Losses of the T-72 in 1982 were not 1-2, but 7-8 vehicles, one of them - out of the 105 mm guns of the M-60 tank. T-72s did not participate in battles with Merkava tanks, but they even fought with other tanks (centurions, M-60) (in any case, the Syrians were completely delighted with the car: black Arab humor: that D-81 from the first shot removes a hat from a Jew (i.e. a tower)).

tanks Abrams never stood in service with AOI

Here we are talking about a little-known incident that took place not before, but after the events in Galilee. A platoon of Syrian T-72, with one Soviet instructor near the no-man's land, collided with three unknown tanks without identification. signs, as a result of which one of which was hit, and the other two washed away. There was no opportunity to leave or send security for a number of reasons, the Syrians left and returned a couple of hours later, but the Israelis had already evacuated the tank (there were traces of tow trucks on the sand). According to the instructions of our and Syrian tankers, a "composite" was compiled, in which the M-1 Abrams (the very first version) was visible. Explanations for this fact were not found, but since after the conflict in 1982, next to Lebanon there was a NATO fleet (with which the Syrians on the updated MiG-23 aircraft have already clashed more than once, but already without their losses), they blamed the Americans on new tanks are being tested.

[Professor]

Quote: reichsmarshal

T-72 did not participate in battles with Merkava tanks, but they even fought with other tanks (centurions, M-60)

No, they did not fight, and the Syrian enthusiasm can be explained by the "payment" for the free equipment supplied.

Quote: reichsmarshal

Here we are talking about a little-known case,

It's about a bike.

[reichsmarshal]

And who then knocked out all the other Israeli tanks? By the way, there is nothing anywhere statistics on the number of tanks lost by the parties in 1982.

It's about a bike.

maybe a bike. I said that I did not find the case while parsing the explanations.

[Ivan Mechanic]

And will not be! there Israel has lost so much that this war cannot win for victory. Even to Pyrrova.

[tybaran]

Butler - torchims ... do not trust your media - the kizdezh is complete. even now, when Syrian rebels who were wounded are being treated in Israeli hospitals, the Russians call them terrorists. maybe son is a terrorist? by the way, Israel is capitalized. you don’t like when ivan or rosia write like that

[Aaron Zawi]

I'm afraid you will be saddened by such information. But Soviet engineers appreciated Israeli capabilities more realistically.

In 1982, an Israeli-made МХNUMXА38 American-made tank equipped with a hinged DZ, which was intended to combat cumulative ammunition, was taken from an area of ​​hostilities to 48 NII MO (Kubinka). In this tank were 5-mm BPS M105, which were tested on the frontal armor of the T-111 tank. At the same time, for a comparative assessment, the 72-mm 111BM125 “Barrette” (tab. 3) was fired with the BPS M22.
What is the multilayer armor of the upper frontal hull (VLD) of the T-72 tank? For example, the export version of the T-72M had a three-layer frontal protection of the hull, consisting of two armor plates (thickness - 60 and 50 mm), between which fiberglass was placed (thickness - 105 mm). The angle of inclination of this three-layer “pie” was 68 degrees. from vertical to VLD. The results were stunning - multilayer armor was pierced by an Israeli 105-mm projectile at a distance of 2 km.
Israeli 105mm armor-piercing piercing projectile MK111. 1 elements of the depfering device; 2 - centering thickening; 3 - body; 4 - master unit with detachable parts; 5 - lead belt; 6 - stabilizer; 7 - tracer.

[Kars]

And here by the way and a photo from Kubinka

[Aaron Zawi]

And so 12 people put a minus for this message. One of two things: either they considered it false, but the fact is quite well-known and a hundred times agreed upon in all serious forums, or simply their vulnerable souls could not stand the collapse of ideals, well, only life experience can help here. Ideals generally quickly tend to collapse.

[Lopatov]

No, minus because it is a quote from Rostopshin. The original guy is enough. One name is worth it: "In a real war, our tanks are doomed"

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: Spade

No, minus because it is a quote from Rostopshin. The original guy is enough. One name is worth it: "In a real war, our tanks are doomed"

From the fact that Rastopshin says that the sun rises from the East, it is from the West, it will not rise.
The M111 test in Kubinka after the capture of 3 Israeli tanks near Sultan-Yakub took place. The test led to the fact that it was recommended to weld 72 mm armored reinforcement on the VLD of all T-15s. This fact can be illuminated from different angles, but it alone will not disappear from this.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

Rastopshin will say that the sun rises from the East

Great example.
If he writes this, then his words will definitely need to be checked. And during the inspection, it will be surely discovered that the sun in the east rises only twice a year, on the days of the spring and autumn equinox.

[kavkaz8888]

YES. But it was during the transition from the T-72A to the T-72B and was to the benefit of the designers. In short, these tests are not significant.

[kavkaz8888]

In '85, under the "series", the three-layer pie was abandoned. On the T-72B (and all the others), a six-layer was put. The data given by Rostopshin on the T-72B and T-80U do not correspond to reality. Let's add here the built-in dynamic protection "contact-5", which Rostopshin does not take into account at all (and it extinguishes up to 20% of armor penetration). There is a lot of nonsense written by this EAS. lanets, Articles are clearly custom-made. Another Suvorov with "Icebreaker" at the ready.

[Aaron Zawi]

I am sure that the armor protection of Russian tanks increased by orders of magnitude compared to the 1982 year. But we are talking about battles in the 1982 year. Agree that it is possible that the improvement of the armor became possible due to the unsuccessful test for the T-72A in Kubinka?

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

Agree that it is possible that the improvement of the armor became possible due to the unsuccessful test for the T-72A in Kubinka?

Well, the Merkava 1 tower has grown somewhat in the image of the Merkava 4, probably not with simple.

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: saturn.mmm

Quote: Aron Zaavi

Agree that it is possible that the improvement of the armor became possible due to the unsuccessful test for the T-72A in Kubinka?

Well, the Merkava 1 tower has grown somewhat in the image of the Merkava 4, probably not with simple.

Moreover, Merkava -1 was removed from service even among the reservists. The tank turned out to be frankly raw.

[reichsmarshal]

Will not upset. The 105 mm shell penetrates the T-72's armor, and this has long been known, and not "overwhelming" at all. But in a real battle, everything depends on the angle of encounter with the armor, the age of the projectile, and a number of other factors. And then, from 2 km, the T-72 will easily knock down the M-60 (and the Merkava would have had a hard time if they met). The fact that Israel's tankers are better than the Arabs - who would argue? Only here on their own land the Jews and ovs with their Abrams will do it! Mother Russia remembers Krivoshein and Dragunsky, and also the fact that not every Jew can be called a Jew. But firstly, the Merkava and T-72 are machines of different generations (not to equate the BT-shku with the Tiger), and secondly, in the event of a war in Europe (the USSR vs NATO), 2-3 units with the Merkavas, transferred to Europe would not have prevented the USSR from advancing on the English Channel. The Bekaa Valley is not a thousand-kilometer front in Europe.

[Pimply]

Merkava-1 and T-72 - why different generations?

[reichsmarshal]

As far as I know, Merkava is classified as a third-generation car, and the T-72 is the second (as is Chiften).

[Hammer]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

I'm afraid you will be saddened by such information. But Soviet engineers appreciated Israeli capabilities more realistically.

In 1982, an Israeli-made МХNUMXА38 American-made tank equipped with a hinged DZ, which was intended to combat cumulative ammunition, was taken from an area of ​​hostilities to 48 NII MO (Kubinka). In this tank were 5-mm BPS M105, which were tested on the frontal armor of the T-111 tank. At the same time, for a comparative assessment, the 72-mm 111BM125 “Barrette” (tab. 3) was fired with the BPS M22.
What is the multilayer armor of the upper frontal hull (VLD) of the T-72 tank? For example, the export version of the T-72M had a three-layer frontal protection of the hull, consisting of two armor plates (thickness - 60 and 50 mm), between which fiberglass was placed (thickness - 105 mm). The angle of inclination of this three-layer “pie” was 68 degrees. from vertical to VLD. The results were stunning - multilayer armor was pierced by an Israeli 105-mm projectile at a distance of 2 km.
Israeli 105mm armor-piercing piercing projectile MK111. 1 elements of the depfering device; 2 - centering thickening; 3 - body; 4 - master unit with detachable parts; 5 - lead belt; 6 - stabilizer; 7 - tracer.

U important, but do not tell the author of this opus, not M.M. Rastopshin accidentally?

[Pimply]

Sorry, but this is an urban legend.

[Crang]

Not from the M60, but from the Centurion. And one "Merkava" was destroyed by our T-62 from its 115mm cannon.

[Ataman]

We need an urgent translation of the article into Arabic!

[reichsmarshal]

Destroyed Merkava? I doubt it. Maximum - knocked out - and then in question.

[Ascetic]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

Second., Abramsami tanks never stood in service with the IDF.

Read the link carefully, this is not discussed there. This is just a little-known episode that happened before the war. However, the Reichsmarschal explained in more detail below. The truth, according to his version, happened after the war, but it is not so important, because this explains

the use of individual machines at the forefront, outside the composition of a cohesive unit, without logistics and without a built-in system of interaction with other units.

[Pimply]

This is not a little-known episode. This is a famous duck.

[Kars]

What can you say that a duck is a duck.

[Geisenberg]

Quote: Aaron Zawi

"Don't read Soviet newspapers before breakfast." Listen, but can you read that serious if you are interested in the topic? T-72 tanks were in

You should rather read them, say after dinner. Your enthusiasm is understandable, of course, only you won’t throw words out of the song.

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: Geisenberg

You should rather read them, say after dinner. Your enthusiasm is understandable, of course, only you won’t throw words out of the song.

If you are not bothered to answer, then how old are you?

[2sila]

Once again I hear from you about the anti-tank ambush of the Israeli paratroopers on the T-72, but I never saw that it was the T-72. Where can I see the lined T-72 then? Of course, I am aware of this battle, and I saw a photo from the position of anti-tankers and read the memories, but I just did not see the T-72, or rather they simply can not be identified. Maybe you saw? I would have looked too.

[Aaron Zawi]

Granovsky on waronline had an article about this fight. Look there.

[2sila]

I apologize for reacting late.
Of course I'll see, although I'm sure I already read it.
I just thought that maybe you have some kind of iron facts or photos, so you confidently stated about the wrecked T-72.
So far this looks like just one of the tales, which you have repeatedly blamed some of those present here.
To be honest, of course I was hoping at least for a link, about the source, I don’t mention it.

[Tourist Breakfast]

To be honest, of course I was hoping at least for a link, about the source, I don’t mention it.

URL:

http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/t72-myth/

Photo Shoot:

[Kars]

Quote: Tourist's Breakfast

http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/t72-myth/

To say that complete untruth is hard, I completely believe in the ambush of the PTURs, but for example, I can’t identify the tank from the photo and no one can.

[2sila]

Of course, I saw this photo and wrote about it, that I saw the photo from the position of anti-tankers and read their memories and reconstruction, but there is no mention of the T-72 anywhere, and this is not surprising, from this place you can’t make out what kind of car burned down .
I just thought, maybe there is something else for quite peremptory statements about the T-72 allegedly burnt here.
No?
Sorry in advance for importunity and maybe inappropriate for this format pedantic.

[Pimply]

Do not repeat old tales.

[tybaran]

what a stupid and self-confident statement ... and in 1982, against the Syrian side of the rushkas? in the Lebanese valley it’s bulo.

[Cynic]

Quote: tybaran

what a stupid and self-confident statement ... and in 1982, against the Syrian side of the rushkas? in the Lebanese valley it’s bulo.

Hmm, but they say that always the development of the discussion goes in an upward spiral! Flat corkscrew and nothing more!

[Slevinst]

Such a small cloud-selective, not covering the entire tank. And when will they hit the tank from behind or from the side?

first you need to be on the side or back. usually tanks are facing the enemy

[Kars]

There was a video on YouTube in the T-72 hit from Bumblebee - the tank has already passed, and the cloud only detanated.

[Blackgrifon]

Quote: Kars

There was a video on YouTube in the T-72 hit from Bumblebee - the tank has already passed, and the cloud only detanated.

The tankers were lucky - from a bumblebee, the middle house is folding like a card.

[Kars]

Quote: Blackgrifon

The tankers were lucky - from a bumblebee, the middle house is folding like a card.

If it hits the wall? Or inside the break?

[Professor]

Quote: Slevinst

first you need to be on the side or back. usually tanks are facing the enemy

This is exactly what biped fighters do with tubes on their shoulders.

Quote: bask

But the question is not without logic

Absolutely devoid of. Tanker training is not universal, even from one Merkava model to another transplant after a long course. Nobody is trained to fight on Abrams in Israel, the author is a dreamer.

[chaushevski]

one thing I know for sure this tank will not reach us

[Blackgrifon]

Quote: chaushevski

one thing I know for sure this tank will not reach us

Merkava was created for a certain theater VD. If I’m not mistaken, they don’t export it, although closer to 2008 there was a duck in the media that the Georgians wanted to buy Merkava.

[Ivan Mechanic]

This nonsense or not nonsense can be checked only in practice. Which by the way is quite possible if this forum is monitored by fighters of the Palestinian resistance and the organization of Hezbollah freedom fighters! In the next battle, we will see how the Merkava will blaze - tanks that (unlike drones) do not want to buy more than one country in the world for any money!

[Blackgrifon]

Quote: Ivan Mechanic

tanks that (unlike drones) do not want to buy more than one country in the world for no money!

Maybe because they are not being sold? :) T-90s are going to be captured, but how many of them are in our troops? According to the mind, it was first necessary to saturate their aircraft with these BMs, or at least upgrade the existing fleet (it is also desirable that it is repaired and upgraded at the storage bases).

[atalef]

Quote: Ivan Mechanic

In the next battle, we will see how the Merkava will blaze - tanks that (unlike drones) do not want to buy more than one country in the world for any money!

And they were offered for sale? Enlighten where?
By the way, Bulava, like Poplars and Boreas, didn’t they want to buy either, they just don’t sell them?

[Genady1976]

Quote: atalef

And they were offered for sale? Enlighten where?
By the way, Bulava, like Poplars and Boreas, didn’t they want to buy either, they just don’t sell them?

with the liver

[Cynic]

Quote: tybaran

Vanya - you moron, Merkava is not sold by Israel.

Well, yes, yes, by the principle of the elusive Joe

A visiting man in the Wild West went into the saloon, ordered himself a whiskey with
soda, sitting drinking. Suddenly he hears screams and shots on the street. Asks
cowboy at the next table:
- What is it over there?
“This Elusive Joe indulges,” he says lazily.
“Why is he Elusive?” Gather everything and catch.
- But who needs it in FIG?

[Joker]

Quote: Professor

Such a small cloud-selective, not covering the entire tank. crying And when will they hit the tank from behind or from the side? wink

- Well, of course, a small, no more than a matchbox ... now, if it was a question of Israeli ammunition attacking for example the Russian tank, then yes, and so insignificant;

the rest is controversy.

[Professor]

Quote: Joker

the rest is controversy.

The rest is your imagination.

[Strashila]

“The likelihood of such a decision in the near future is evidenced by the actions of the United States to create advanced warehouses of military equipment, including tanks, in Israel, with the officially declared goal of accelerating the airlift of American military personnel to the Middle East in the event of a military conflict. it is planned to create an armored reserve for the Israel Defense Forces in case of large-scale combat losses of the Merkava tanks. "... and more likely to support terrorists in Syria.

[cth; fyn]

To be honest, there are too many theory and assumptions. An explosion of a thermobaric grenade takes fractions of a second, and how much mixture can a tank suck into an air filter in these fractions of a second? In general, this is rather some kind of assumption, not even a theory, but just an assumption.

[Akim]

Quote: cth; fyn

and how much mixture can the tank suck into the air filter in these fractions of a second?

I agree. In the same way as to shoot down elements of KAZ with a sniper.

[Kars]

Not guys with a thermal bar, complete nonsense. Even not really funny. Starting with the fact that it’s bullshit against anti-ballistic armor. There’s nothing to do with an armored personnel carrier. It’s nothing special from the OFS. with a standard MTO layout may fall.

[zaazua]

the thermal bar has a range of 500 meters!
good luck popping up in front of the tank’s nose at that range
But you can jump out behind the tank and "push" the thermobar into the MTO!

[Akim]

Quote: zaazua

the thermal bar has a range of 500 meters!

ATGMs with thermobaric or high explosive G. parts fly as far as their cumulative counterpart. Another thing is that they are not designed to fight tanks.

[zaazua]

sorry, stupid!

[ed65b]

Chechens and 30 meters thrashed. so good luck to the tank crew in this situation.

[Avenger711]

A tank at such a range will not see the shooter.

[Aaron Zawi]

There is not and there will not be any "Rakia" until they can develop weapons on new principles. Israel Defense has published an assumption about the development of Israeli armored vehicles, nothing more

[misham]

The author seems to have painted everything correctly ...... So you can find all the tanks to find flaws, be it the T-90, T-80, Abrams, Leopard. Maybe the author suggests that all armies transfer to T-55 (there are still a lot of Pts all over the world) and not invent multi-layer armor, DZ, all kinds of electronic suppression systems for ATGM operators, anti-RPG systems and other anti-tank devices. Why a crew rescue system if it is also not good.
There are no perfectly balanced MBTs. Merkava is good with something, Abrams is something, with the T-64 (72-80) the same picture. Each country producing them, relies on a specific scenario of combat use. Merkava was created taking into account the experience of military use in Sinai, the Golan Heights. The potential adversary of the Merkava is not the irregular partisan formations of Hezbollah (Hamas) but the armies of Egypt, Syria, Jordan and other Arab allies.
In the second Lebanon war, the Israelis were severely punished for their self-confidence. Themselves violated their postulate - the tanks themselves do not fight. There was no interaction with infantry and turntables. In that situation, with such miscalculations, replace Merkava with Abrams or some OPLOT (BULAT) or promising Armata, the result will not change.

[Crang]

The author did not write that "Merkava-MK.4" is complete shit. The article is called "Constructive vulnerabilities ...." Just so that everyone would know the weak points of this tank, if you have to face it.

[Akim]

Quote: Krang

Just so that everyone would know the weaknesses of this tank, if you have to face it.

All if anything, go to Syria? Even Georgians once abandoned its purchase, because the tank is special

[Pimply]

The design vulnerabilities of the tank should be evaluated normally, and not rained with fabrications.

[phantom359]

Quote: Pimply

The design vulnerabilities of the tank should be evaluated normally, and not rained with fabrications.

Of course. First of all, you need to keep this in mind. This applies not only to tanks.

[Pimply]

Give my thoughts as an example. Forward.

[Avenger711]

In fact, on the contrary, everyone makes the "carrot" almost ideal, although no one makes tanks with front MTO in the world. IMHO, this layout is more suitable for light tanks based on infantry fighting vehicles.

[Crang]

Our new T-99 "Armata" will also have a front engine. And there will also be a troop compartment. Sort of.

[Cynic]

Quote: Krang

Our new T-99 "Armata" ...

On beans or coffee grounds checked the validity of these assumptions?
About Armata so much has already been written from

and up to

[Pimply]

She is not ideal. She is an ordinary, very good tank, a tank of a constantly howling country. But with all the advantages and disadvantages attached. However, do not think out the flaws, and carry nonsense about obstruction in the mud and so on. It’s just that most of them are not possessing knowledge trying to leave but their bits and pieces. To sit, look for information - this is scrap.

[reichsmarshal]

The strength of Merkava is the same as the strength of the T-34-85 in Berlin: in the motorized infantry that accompanies them, in the artillery that clears their path with fire, in sappers who pave this path. Plus, the Israelis have drones. The T-72-80-90 did not have this in the Middle East and somehow lacked in Chechnya.
Another thing is that it would be better not to wage such wars in which Merkava is used, and if God forbid they are involved, it is better to wage them quietly, secretly, and preferably with the wrong hands.

[Pimply]

Everything always depends on an integrated approach.

[reichsmarshal]

Explain what do you mean?

[Rumata]

Somehow, I doubt that Trophy’s sensors are so vulnerable to small arms. In Gaza, eat booty snipers, and didn’t hesitate to damage the radar. Although they were there for more than one month, they also went through a baptism of fire, so to speak.

[Professor]

Quote: Rumata

Although they were there for more than one month, they also went through a baptism of fire, so to speak.

Type combat circumcision ...

[Rumata]

Quote: Professor

Like combat circumcision ... laughing

What horrors, I immediately associate with this

[Pimply]

It involves the use of anti-material rifles such as Barrett. And the products of the UAE, unknown to the general public, are mentioned because it was produced by Lobaev. That’s the whole secret. The man did not see how tanks can operate, at what distance they can pinpoint a sniper, and how problematic it is to accurately hit such a rifle at a distance of more than a kilometer

[Avenger711]

Tanks are generally extremely blind, and enlarging the camera image reduces the viewing angle.

[Pimply]

And again, nonsense. The tank has blind spots. But at those distances that a sniper works, a tank, in most cases, using its equipment, it will simply be detected before it fires its first shot.

In the photo - the Lebanese border, the Hezbollah fighter in the sight.

[Kars]

Quote: Pimply

But at those distances that a sniper works, a tank, in most cases, with the help of its equipment, it will simply detect before

By the way, tell this to Profesor, otherwise he assured me that at night Merkava’s thermal imager would see a person less than a hundred meters away. Of course, that was before he brought me in an emergency. Yes, and the sniper was lying, it would be inferior in visibility to the operator Javelin.

[Pimply]

At 100 meters, the thermal imager can detect. Everything will depend on the terrain and the conditions. They remove such gavriks on the border with Gaza pretty much.

[Kars]

Quote: Pimply

At 100 meters, the thermal imager can detect

But at a greater distance? There are 1000-2000 meters? What can not be seen from a tank at night?

[Pimply]

A friend I still served on Magah. He told me that for 4 km it was possible to make out an action movie and shoot it with one shot.

[Kars]

Quote: Pimply

He told me that for 4 km it was possible to make out an action movie and shoot it with one shot.

Tell Proff about this, otherwise he’s already embarrassed to compare the heat dissipation of a person and a tank. I heard that the last thermal imagers can determine the temperature of a person, and household security guards from a tower can see a person over 16 km.

[Pimply]

I guess, yes. I gave a little lower video there. I’m trying to find a tank, there the resolution is even clearer.

[Pimply]

By the way, visibility in the thermal imager. But this is not a tank one, as far as I remember, a tank resolution is better.

[Professor]

Quote: Pimply

At 100 meters, the thermal imager can detect. Everything will depend on the terrain and the conditions. They remove such gavriks on the border with Gaza pretty much.

The thing is that the tank radiates heat at least 64000 times more than a person, that is, even a naked man standing up to his full height with a pulse under 200 is 32 times heavier than a tank. Nevertheless, those who are going to hit the KAZ with amateurs from a rifle, I would see how they manage to do this even with 200-300 meters on a moving non-contrast object.

[Pimply]

I can’t find something video of the elimination of terrorists on the border with Gaza, shot through the tank’s thermal imager - but it was.

[Pimply]

By the way, prof., In a thermal imager, a modern person will not differ much from a tank. Well, in the sense that the difference in heat generation is not so important here

[Professor]

Quote: Pimply

By the way, prof., In a thermal imager, a modern person will not differ much from a tank. Well, in the sense that the difference in heat generation is not so important here

I had to observe both people and tanks in the thermal imager and believe me the word, the tank is noticeable at a much greater distance than a person. The amount of radiated energy is extremely important.

[Firstvanguard]

** I, and he also managed to look into the tank’s thermal imager, ubiquitous

[Avenger711]

12.7 mm will blow any radar.

[Pimply]

The radar, of course, is a large plate, not covered by anything, the tank runs by itself, and in the area it’s so easy to grumble out of 12.7 around the tank. Shot from a machine gun of this caliber?

Find the radar in the picture. And try to get on it from a distance of at least 300 meters

[Prohor]

12,7 mm, fired from a rifle, WILL NOT hit any moving radar! From NSVT or CORD - another thing ...

[ed65b]

Well, no scary brother. And show off to heaven, we are such and such. One tank was built from what it was, now until the second coming they will be lurking with it but no one will admit it. Jews however.

[cartridge]

The machine can operate only on hard soils and only with strong infantry support. On soft soils, and even more so in a mud or swampy terrain, this tank will instantly become a frozen monument due to its excessively exceeded mass characteristics, and in the absence of infantry it will turn into a regular target on hard soils.
BTA is not suitable for aircraft transfer. To transportation by rail is limited.
In general, a tank can only be used on an extremely limited theater of operations with specific climatic conditions.
In 2006, the Hezbollah guerrillas demonstrated and proved in practice that the Israeli propaganda of the Merkava greatly exaggerates its merits.

[Professor]

Quote: cartridge

The machine can operate only on hard soils and only with strong infantry support. On soft soils, and even more so in a mud or swampy terrain, this tank will instantly become a frozen monument due to its excessively exceeded mass characteristics, and in the absence of infantry it will turn into a regular target on hard soils.

You pioneers tell your tales, we know the truth.

[ed65b]

And what is the last one for the photo, the tank got stuck, the boys got out a tractor waiting

[Lopatov]

Quote: Professor

You pioneers tell your tales, we know the truth.

The fact that a tank without infantry is a coffin on wheels is not a fairy tale. However, this applies not only to Merkava. Ask Barankevich, he will tell.

[Professor]

I'm talking about the ground, not about the infantry.

[Lopatov]

About the soil is nonsense. Any modern tank will ride until it sits firmly on its belly. Nevertheless, technical thought for 97 years has stepped far forward.

[Joker]

About the two photos that are higher (the Merkava tank), I probably would have driven quite confidently on the 2141 Mosvich, an ordinary lane, nothing more than natural. As for these 3 photos, then

first, I already wrote about it (apparently you have already laid out), there the tank crawls along a gravel road with large puddles (for the Muscovite, this is not a problem).

average - the tank leaves the puddle does not speak about the level of patency, you are an adult.

lower - the tank is in such a big puddle, maybe in this particular case it even manages to drive it, but again, you’re an adult, a special case will not remove the heavy muzzle of the merkava, the probability of filling the MTO with a sharp exit ford and other design flaws, more part of the fatal generated by the layout of this machine.

Quote: Professor

about soils

[Professor]

Quote: Joker

About the two photos that are higher (the Merkava tanks), I would probably drive quite confidently there on the 2141

It's your turn to bring a photo confirming the poor cross Merkava.

[Joker]

Quote: Professor

It’s your turn to bring photos confirming Merkava’s poor patency.

build yourself an intelligent and educated person, versed in many aspects, and you have to cheat such things .. I'm upset.

if it’s more serious, it’s quite obvious that the pinched muzzle (due to the placement of the engine and transmission in front) with a mass of 60 tons of cross-country ability does not add explicitly; add to this the impossibility of protecting the VLD with a full multilayer reservation (the muzzle is already loaded, there is no mass reserve); low engine reliability (I’m not 100% sure here, but I haven’t received any refutation from you, after I posted the link);

Professor, do not shout that Merkava is a super tank. In some ways, not bad for its theater of operations based on the conditions of use, but nevertheless not without heaps of flaws, mostly structurally unavoidable;

Good luck.

[Professor]

Quote: Joker

build yourself an intelligent and educated person, versed in many aspects, and you have to cheat such things .. I'm upset.

Emotions could be missed.

Quote: Joker

if it’s more serious, it’s quite obvious that the pinched muzzle (due to the placement of the engine and transmission in front) with a mass of 60 tons of passability does not add explicitly;

Throw off the coordinates of the center of gravity of the machine.

Quote: Joker

low engine reliability (I’m not sure about 100 here, but I haven’t received any refutation from you after I posted the link);

Problems with a specific batch of German diesel engines no longer repeated.

Quote: Joker

Professor, do not shout that Merkava is a super tank.

Do not fantasize, I have never claimed this.

[Joker]

Quote: Professor

Emotions could be missed.

- these are not emotions, although it would be convenient for you; I have been on the forum for a long time, and I affirm this thesis based on the line of behavior.

Quote: Professor

Problems with a specific batch of German diesel engines no longer repeated.

- only your unfounded statement;

Quote: Professor

Throw off the coordinates of the center of gravity of the machine.

- a very original joke; there are two options, with the front location of the MTO, either the armor is weak or the nose is heavy; to prove the obvious is not included in my plans;

Quote: Professor

Do not fantasize, I have never claimed this.

- quote your:

http://topwar.ru/9754-modernizaciya-obt-abrams-m-1.html#comment-id-387300

Quote: Professor

I believe that the Merkava 4 is "the best battle-tested tank in the world", but there are conventions here as well - it did not participate in tank battles.

After all, it was not in vain that I wished good luck, it was a completely transparent hint that I had nothing more to say, I wanted to write off everything that I wanted, and to prove the obvious_ I wasted time; We can someday continue when you stop contradicting yourself;

And finally, I think a very accurate description that I have given about you, I duplicate:

Why, in some cases, namely when it comes to our domestic and foreign policies, our BTTs and other weapons are being discussed, do you allow yourself to attack with criticism, if it comes to arming weapons, you are content with mean official sources.

It smacks of the 5 column.

[Professor]

Quote: Joker

these are not emotions, although that would be convenient for you; I have been on the forum for a long time, and I affirm this thesis based on the line of behavior.

If not emotions, then just chatter.

Quote: Joker

only your unfounded statement;

Of course unfounded, since then there have been no reports of problems with SU. I guess censorship hides the truth.

Quote: Joker

- a very original joke; there are two options, with the front location of the MTO, either the armor is weak or the nose is heavy; to prove the obvious is not included in my plans;

These are just your thoughts. Throw off the coordinates of the center of gravity of the machine.

Quote: Joker

Your quote:

http://topwar.ru/9754-modernizaciya-obt-abrams-m-1.html#comment-id-387300
Quote: Professor
I believe that the Merkava 4 is "the best battle-tested tank in the world", but there are conventions here as well - it did not participate in tank battles.

My quote. Didn't you see the quotes? For example, if I call you a "smart" person, what do you think I mean?

Quote: Joker

and proving the obvious_ is just wasting time;

TTX to the studio with the coordinates of the center of gravity - then it will be obvious, and so chatter.

Quote: Joker

It smacks of the 5 column.

I do not live in Russia, and even by definition I cannot be part of its Fifth Column.

[Cynic]

Quote: Professor

TTX to the studio with the coordinates of the center of gravity - then it will be obvious, and so chatter.

Honestly, if I had a ride in it, then there would have been a conversation, and so really a holivar.
Do you occasionally have links to personal (not yours essno or?) Driving impressions of Merkava?
As a note
Even if there is a link to the center of gravity, so what?
First Reliability ?!
Secondly, due to what have you achieved? (a priori, I think developers are adequate people)
and thirdly and fourthly ...
And most importantly, you know how it happens _ Everything seems to be fine, but not that. Doesn't seem like a thing!


It’s not for me to paint you

[Professor]

Quote: Cynic

Do you occasionally have links to personal (not yours essno or?) Driving impressions of Merkava?

Today I will drink beer with the company commander Merkava-2, I’ll ask you, but in general the forum www.waronline.org has Merkava tankers and they are rather willing to share their personal impressions.

Quote: Cynic

Even if there is a link to the center of gravity, so what?

And make sure how he has a muzzle.

PS
The commander of the tank company Merkava 2 Bet says that there were no problems with patency, the tank was not afraid of dirt. There were problems with the reliability of the front shock absorbers taking the first blow from obstacles (such as boulders). The three decided this problem by changing the angle of the shock absorbers. The biggest problem of the two was the caterpillar breakdown when overcoming the lateral tilt in the mud and on dry ground. Sometimes the caterpillar wedged between the rollers and the casing so that it could be pulled out only by interrupting it with a special explosive charge set by the company mechanic or repair team. Starting from the top three, this problem was solved by modernizing the tracks.

[Joker]

and perhaps finally, I'm glad that you do not deny the obvious things, namely the selectivity of opinions about the technique of your (Israel) allies and opponents;

about the weight distribution of Merkava, first prove that there is at least some kind of VLD and NLD armor, and the dispute will resolve by itself;

Quote: Joker

Why in some cases, namely when it comes to our domestic and foreign policies, our BTTs are discussed and other weapons, you allow yourself to criticize, if you are talking about weapons, you are content with mean official sources.

It smacks of the 5 column.

Quote: Professor

I do not live in Russia, and even by definition I cannot be part of its Fifth Column.

[Professor]

It’s your turn to bring photos confirming Merkava’s poor patency.

Quote: Joker

it is quite obvious that the tightened muzzle (due to the placement of the engine and transmission in front) with a mass of 60 tons of passability does not explicitly add

Quote: Joker

about the weight distribution of Merkava, first prove that there is at least some kind of VLD and NLD armor, and the dispute will resolve by itself;

You started this talk and with patency and with a weighted muzzle, here prove your fantasies, performance characteristics in the studio with the coordinates of the center of gravity, the rest of your thoughts are not interesting to me.

And I do not live in America, and I cannot be its 5 column by definition. How is it with quotes, noticed?

[Pimply]

Naturally. Therefore, Merkava even has a special telephone attached to communicate with infantry from behind.

[Avenger711]

Damn, the connection of the infantry to the TPU is provided on all tanks except the Abrams. It was only during the War that they communicated knocking on the tower.

[Samuray]

You're wrong! Abramsah also has infantry connected to TPU

[Lopatov]

These are the decisions of the last century.

[cartridge]

And looking at the photos you posted, I’ll say that these photos are about nothing! The top photo, where the depth of the puddle does not exceed the thickness of the caterpillar, is simply not serious. I hope that you do not want to say that this puddle is the equivalent of the Polesie swamps or the Ukrainian black soil in the mud.
So the top photo doesn’t! And do not humiliate your tankers with such pornography!
And as for the bottom photo, I’ll say that I see how without the tractor your iron cannot even get out of its wet track! No wonder the bewildered crew crowded in front of the lens, not knowing what to do next ... This once again confirms the truth of what I wrote above!
Lukashenka, as a kind person, will sell you Belarus tractors for little money to solve your problems with dragging your tanks through puddles!

[Professor]

Quote: cartridge

We also know the truth about Jewish truth! Your truth is worthless on a market day!

Blah blah blah. You compare the specific pressure on the ground, and only after verbiage do. More photos to post?

[ed65b]

Can you exchange tracks for ultra-low pressure tires? Then the questions of patency will be definitely removed.

[Pimply]

And now, anything but hysterical screams or empty-handed accusations?
Dear, there are heavy rains in Israel for 4-5 months a year, and in some parts of the country, in particular, where tankers serve, the dirt is not to the knees, but much higher.
Are you aware that not everything depends on weight? And it depends on the distribution of this weight over the area. So, in this regard, Merkava has a minimum difference from other MBTs.
So do not sparkle your ignorance, like a bare backside.

[ed65b]

Where do you live ???? Judging by your posts near the professor, 4-5 months of our rains will wash all of Israel into the sea. So back naked will have to sparkle not for me.

[Professor]

In vain you try, crush the intellect. Provide data on the average annual rainfall in the Galilee and in the suburbs?

[yanus]

Quote: Professor

In vain you try, crush the intellect. Provide data on the average annual rainfall in the Galilee and in the suburbs?

Do not confuse your intellect with Google.

[Professor]

Quote: yanus

Do not confuse your intellect with Google.

Intelligence must be able to use, data on precipitation must be sought by the weather service.

[Pimply]

I lived in Israel. And he served in the Israeli army. Therefore, I have an idea of ​​what I am talking about. Travel in November for three months to Israel. After we talk.

[Crang]

With this "Merkava" just everything is bad - the front part is overloaded. Whereas in a tank of classic layout, the mass is evenly distributed.

[Pimply]

She, apparently, with every movement - a kick. And falls.

[Crang]

The nose is simply overloaded and this is enough for poor passability.

[Pimply]

Respected. What do you think, Merkava tanks in operation for almost 40 years. You are theoretically talking about this, right? Are you aware that the weight distribution is done there - the tower was shifted a little back for better balance? Which, in general, solved the problem

[Crang]

The tower is almost in the center. In addition, its heaviest frontal part is located in front. Also in front are the engine and gearbox and the heavy multi-layer frontal armor of the hull. What ideal weight distribution are you talking about? At least take a look at the location of the track rollers of your tank. And then take a look at the T-90 chassis. Here everything really turns out exactly in it: the heavy frontal armor of the hull and turret is compensated by the rear engine and gearbox. And the BO protection is more uniform. Front powerful armor. Rear MTO.

[Pimply]

Respected. Are you aware of the weight distribution of this tank? You look at the pictures, cling to your prejudice, and don’t want to understand that the tank has been in actual use in combat for 40 years. Get out of theories.

[Crang]

But so what if it was operated for 40 years. The specificity of Israel is that there are no great distances anywhere, and the mud is not the same. Che - there to drive 50 meters, is this already exploitation? "Merkava" is for the Middle East only and is suitable. He will not show himself anywhere else. So because of its mass, it is capable of solving only tactical tasks, without rising to the operational level and not a tank especially. The basis of the tank war - "Blitzkrieg" on "Merkavas" will not work. We realized this already with the 62,5-ton IS-4.

[Pimply]

Have you seen Israeli mud at least once?

What 50 meters are two.

Three - in the know, how much differ in power engines Merkava and T-72?

Are you aware that tanks rarely move far under their own power?

[Crang]

Quote: Pimply

Have you seen Israeli mud at least once?

You probably haven't seen the Russian one. Didn't see its scale. This is not a "patch" of a difficult section that needs to be overcome, and then again a good road. These are kilometers and tens of kilometers of hellish mud. In such a situation, D9 must be attached to the "Merkavas", which will also get stuck.

Quote: Pimply

Three - in the know, how much differ in power engines Merkava and T-72?

Not too much. 780-840-1000hp against 900-1200-1500hp Here the caveat is that the dependence of the resistance to movement on the mass is not linear. That is, a 70-ton tank, even with a powerful engine, will not rake where the 45-ton will pass.

Quote: Pimply

Are you aware that tanks rarely move far under their own power?

I know. Over long distances tanks can be transported:
a) by rail.
b) by air.
c) by sea.
And now tell us, dear, how are things at "Merkava" in these three points? I will tell.
a) no way - the width is 3720 mm (according to other sources more than 4000 mm) - there is no obvious dimension. In addition, we even had to install 62,5-ton IS-4s on platforms with an accuracy of 1 cm (!) - that’s still a job. Therefore, soon all IS-4s turned into fixed firing points dug into the ground.
b) It is also doubtful. Tell me the brands of those military transport aircraft that can raise such a monster? Preferably American. We are not going to give you our AN-124s yet.
c) Identity is doubtful. Calculate the maximum carrying capacity of landing boats and cargo ramps of modern BDK and UDC? Many of them will steal your Merkava? Neka.
Hence the conclusion - you made your tank "Merkava" purely for your country and use it similar how the British used their MK.I in the battle on the Somme in 1MB - i.e. only for direct infantry support. For bigger your tank not able to... He is not capable of solving operational tasks. Therefore, any modern highly maneuverable tank war, your "Merkava" will lose miserably. With him in the conditions of modern highly maneuverable war - "Blitzkrieg" will do the same thing that did our T-34-85 in the 44th and 45th with the "Tigers". T-34-85 simply smashed the rear of the fascists, and the Tigers trying to chase them en masse went out of order and simply rushed in crews. These seemingly powerful tanks showed that they cannot get anywhere in modern warfare. So hope for more or less universal "Abrams" and your old "Magahs".

[Gooch]

Quote: Krang

So hope for more or less universal "Abrams" and your old "Magahs".

Israel has no Abrams.

Hence the conclusion - you made your tank "Merkava" purely for your country and use it in the same way as the British used their MK.I in the Battle of the Somme in WW1 - ie. only for direct support of the infantry.

Is it bad?

[Crang]

Quote: Gooch

Israel has no Abrams.

But his "friends" are.

Quote: Gooch

Is it bad?

Well, what's good? In Israel in the Middle East, this is quite normal because there distances are measured in hundreds of kilometers. There, the tank is no longer used. But somewhere else, where distances are no longer measured in hundreds of kilometers, but in thousands, it will be very bad. An attempt to throw a large group of Merkavs over a considerable distance is most likely doomed to failure. With all the ensuing consequences.

[Professor]

Quote: Krang

And now tell us, dear, how are things at "Merkava" in these three points?

Before you go point by point, look at the Merkava in Europe, which has reached there "on its own".

a) Climb on the platform

b) transported by air

b) By sea also without problems

d) Forgot about it

[Crang]

Photograph number 1
I see - Adyn thing. Tanks are not tank troops. They need many, many with appropriate management and then they will crush anything.
Photo No.2
We can clearly distinguish the American Abrams tank of unknown model. 7-10 tons easier your 4ki.
Photo No.3
Similarly.
Photo No.4
Very funny. One tank can be transported in this way. you will need as many such transporters as there are tanks. And how are you doing with the passability of such a structure? Will they be able to move Merkava tanks thousands of kilometers anywhere other than the German Autobahn? Indeed, in the photo, the tractor is not even four-wheel drive. We have at least special military tank tractors: "Hurricanes" 8x8, etc. And what is this perversion? You are not Americans, but a constantly belligerent country - you must understand that this is all bullshit.

[Gooch]

The fact of the matter is that this is the Israel Defense Forces, for which sexual organ they fly somewhere with their tanks? Hang out at home and everything is in order, it will be necessary to file down transport aircraft with the necessary carrying capacity.
Bridges are holding.


They ride through the mud


Why this phallometry ..

[Professor]

Quote: Krang

I see - Adyn thing.

Photograph No. 1. Did he get to Europe by fax or on his own? Where there is one and a hundred.

Photo No. 2 Boeing C-17 Globemaster III calmly transports Merkava in all dimensions.
Photo No. 3 The LCAC hovercraft is quietly transporting Merkava in all dimensions.

Quote: Krang

Photo No.4
Very funny. One tank can be transported in this way. you will need as many such transporters as there are tanks. And how are you doing with the passability of such a structure? Will they be able to move Merkava tanks thousands of kilometers anywhere other than the German Autobahn? Indeed, in the photo, the tractor is not even four-wheel drive. We have at least special military tank tractors: "Hurricanes" 8x8, etc. And what is this perversion? You are not Americans, but a constantly belligerent country - you must understand that this is all bullshit.

Well stupid there in the General Staff, what do you take from them? They have more than these carriers than tanks. Yes, and this tractor carries Merkava through the mountains without problems.

[Pimply]

In Europe, it is in 2 or 3 countries. Czech Republic, Germany - but I don’t remember who else.

[ramsi]

on the pictures "b", it seems, is not a merkava, but an abrams

[Gooch]

Quote: ramsi

on the pictures "b", it seems, is not a merkava, but an abrams

Abrams M1A2 SEP - 63.0 t
Merkava Mk. 4M - 65.0 t
Not really different

[Kars]

Quote: Gooch

Merkava Mk. 4M - 65.0 t

Not all 70 tons are soon, but it’s better to see the cargo capacity of the aircraft. Anyway, more than one will not fit, that 70 is 60 tons.

[Gooch]

Quote: Kars

Not all 70 tons are soon, but it’s better to see the cargo capacity of the aircraft. Anyway, more than one will not fit, that 70 is 60 tons.

Well there can weigh 70 tons ..

Merkava Mk.4 "And they turned me out of flight because of these dials ..." :)

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: Kars

Not all 70 tons are soon, but it’s better to see the cargo capacity of the aircraft. Anyway, more than one will not fit, that 70 is 60 tons.

There are two in the An-124, and three or four in the AN-225.

[Kars]

Quote: saturn.mmm

There are two in the An-124, and three or four in the AN-225.

If it’s honestly always been interesting to me --- but what is the meaning of the air transportability of a tank? (Well, I don’t count the Yankees with Afghani, etc.) one or two tanks will not do the weather, plus it makes sense to transfer them without a support vehicle, infantry fighting vehicles, etc. Tank is a tank at least division - and that number will be transferred by its aviation.

Quote: saturn.mmm

Can you tell us more about the route?

it's sarcasm.

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: Professor

Before you go point by point, look at the Merkava in Europe, which has reached there "on its own".

Can you tell us more about the route?
But seriously, I wanted to ask why Merkava 4 was produced with either one or two hatches in the tower?

[Pimply]

One hatch is the first variation. They wanted to strengthen the tower. Then they came to the conclusion that two are still better

[Professor]

Quote: saturn.mmm

Can you tell us more about the route?
But seriously, I wanted to ask why Merkava 4 was produced with either one or two hatches in the tower?

Ben Gurion - Frankfurt.
They put KAZ and decided on the second hatch.

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: Professor

They put KAZ and decided on the second hatch.

Thank. And then in the first part, some argued that the MK 4 with only one, but in my photo with two, that's what interested me.

[Professor]

Quote: saturn.mmm

And then in the first part, some claimed

What is the first, that the second part is a solid 3.14159265359

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: Professor

What is the first, that the second part is a solid 3.14159265359

How many people have so many opinions and the truth is somewhere nearby.
Whoever says anything and that a lot of revolutionary ideas are applied on Merkava, the Israelis are constantly in search of a solution to a particular problem.

[Professor]

Quote: saturn.mmm

How many people have so many opinions and the truth is somewhere nearby.

Opinions have nothing to do with it, frank lies, fantasies and not knowledge of equipment. Regarding the truth somewhere nearby, say saturn.mmm stole 100 rubles ... The truth is somewhere nearby, stole only 50?

[Pimply]

The second hatch appeared a little earlier than KAZ, as I recall

[Professor]

Quote: Pimply

The second hatch appeared a little earlier than KAZ, as I recall

Almost at the same time, in any case, I have not seen recently fours with two hatches and without KAZ.

[JonnyT]

Well, not 50m of course, but the fact that the engine at Merklava is not durable is a fact!
God forbid that without service 100km the tank drove ..... and then a replacement and a long complicated repair. Each merklava is brought to the place of war on the truck. Tankers will pass a bit, fight and immediately go to the box for repairs, and as far as I know, the repair is a very complicated process, you can’t do without additional equipment, special equipment and tools. And the former tractor driver cannot be a mechanic according to Merklava.
Summing up, we can safely say that in the case of active and protracted battles with a difficult situation, without logistical support to your armored forces 3,14.
Well, so the natives to drive with breaks on matzo - that's it!

[Pimply]

Tell me, where did you hear such tales?

[Cynic]

Quote: Pimply

Tell me, where did you hear such tales?

Actually, there was material on the forum, though about

Quote: JonnyT

and long complicated repairs

This is an artistic exaggeration, and as far as I remember in the material it was indicated that the low motor resource the problem is being solved and is being solved.

[Pimply]

The forum contained material from a poorly translated article 8) More specifically, the case concerned a number of tanks from the first series, which were in the reserve team, and for which old engines were used in the exercises, which showed problems, and the next batch of SU was already upgraded.

[Cynic]

Quote: Pimply

There was material from a poorly translated article on the forum

Well, like that _ So immediately the translation.
Essentially for me personally, the basic information is usually in the forum.

[Pimply]

No, I just compared - I looked at the original article in Hebrew.

[posad]

Very competent comment! Five points!

[Firstvanguard]

Come to Siberia, I'll show you the dirt

[M. Peter]

I do not defend the merkava, but the T90 is also a deep haven too fearful.

Everyone knows the video.

[Gooch]

Conscripts, stupidly masturbate technology. and this is not T90, but T72B

[M. Peter]

Quote: Gooch

Conscripts, stupidly masturbate technology. and this is not T90, but T72B

Are you an officer? You would have done better, in your hands the car probably just fluttered like through an ordinary puddle after the rain?

[Gooch]

Quote: M.Pyotr

Are you an officer? You would have done better, in your hands the car probably just fluttered like through an ordinary puddle after the rain?

Nope, not an officer, look carefully at the shots, it was possible to go around the puddle, but obviously the driver got into the hole, or just for fun, ponte. There are no logs of self-pulling out, no towing cables, a bunch of downs stupidly gathered to watch another down, masturbating the treasured equipment, so it’s in such a state that when you really need it, it really doesn’t budge.
There was a video where the abrams got stuck in the same mud, but the carrier obviously turned out to be there with straight arms and firm intentions, and here the school thrones just went for vodka and stalled

[M. Peter]

They decided to arrange a sickly Sabantuy, to go for vodka with such a friendly team?

[Gooch]

Quote: M.Pyotr

They decided to arrange a sickly Sabantuy, to go for vodka with such a friendly team?

But how else, you have to control it, suddenly in one hat, it will dry everything on the way, and upon arrival it will say - they say it wasn’t in the store. )

[Penachet]

Yeah, and at the beginning of the video he left there, then for some reason handed back

[Arkan]

Quote: Gooch

and here schoolchildren simply went for vodka and stalled

Somehow our sergeants from quarantine went for wine - in the dry steppe they managed to tear off the front axle of the "Ural" .

[old man54]

Quote: Gooch

look carefully at the shots, it was possible to go around the puddle, but obviously the mechvod climbed into the open, or just for fun, ponte. There are no logs of self-pulling out, no towing cables, a bunch of downs stupidly gathered to watch another down, masturbating the treasured equipment, so it’s in such a state that when you really need it, it really doesn’t budge.
There was a video where the abrams got stuck in the same mud, but the carrier obviously turned out to be there with straight arms and firm intentions, and here the school thrones just went for vodka and stalled

I’m stealing cups like you are commentators! :))) What vodka, what puddle, why are you like these Jews from Israel? It is clearly seen that there is a column on the march, and didn’t they notice from the training ground, or towards it? :)) For some reason, the tank stepped off the road to the side of the road, into a ditch, and it is deep and flooded with water! Maybe, of course, the driver’s drive went boggling, yawning, or maybe the tank that got up ahead wanted to go round, but slipped through the mud, but then it didn’t manage.
I imagine how in such a situation Morkva would have done it! :))

[kavkaz8888]

What is there to be afraid of? The boys smoked and played who burrow deeper.

[Pimply]

Terrain - a property of a tank that characterizes its ability to overcome difficult terrain and various obstacles. The cross-country ability is characterized by the reference and overall cross-country ability and the overcoming of water barriers.

Supporting patency is a property of a tank that characterizes its ability to move on soil with low bearing capacity. An indicator of reference patency is the specific pressure of the tank on the ground, obtained by dividing its mass by the area of ​​the supporting surface.

Merkava. Ground pressure 0,96 kg / cm2. T-72 - about 0,9.

[ramsi]

a small clarification: this concerns the specific pressure on the ground (carrots and t72), and there is also the adhesion of the caterpillar to this soil (for different soils - different: the selection of the middle optimal link - the pitch and height of the hooks - is a very delicate matter), and the difference in weight , and the difference in the area of ​​\ uXNUMXb \ uXNUMXbthe "belly" when "our handsome men" sit down and have to drag them

[Crang]

Don't talk nonsense. This is not a matter of the specific pressure kg / cm2, which plays a role mainly in the passage of certain types of soil. Here, the distribution of all this mass over the spans is much more important, so to speak. "Merkava" is not a very long wagon - all of its 70 tons are concentrated in a 6x4m square. Almost any average bridge under such a mass will collapse, without turning over to the generally low "specific pressure on the ground".

[JonnyT]

about how to minus you carrot fans started. Looks like they do not like it when the truth about their shitty tank comes to the masses)

[Avenger711]

T-64 in the Ukrainian black soil also does not pass, removes the harp.

[Akim]

Quote: Avenger711

T-64 in the Ukrainian black soil also does not pass, removes the harp.

Here is a picture from near Kirovograd. Ride. And in the rain there are no problems either. Although I remember (being in the army), once pulled. But this was a young fighter sitting at the levers.

[Pimply]

Radical differences

[svp67]

Quote: Pimply

Radical differences

Not everyone is lucky with such heavy equipment

[Pimply]

Can you identify the tank?

So we will measure pictures, and not reality?

[svp67]

Quote: Pimply

Can you identify the tank?

Nothing complicated In my photos - various modifications of Leopard2, on yours our T80 And for that matter, this "seventy-two" is also very unlucky

[Pimply]

Exactly 8)

[svp67]

Although the Israelis say "STRONGLY" have made progress in this matter

[svp67]

Quote: Pimply

Radical differences

For me, T80 is preferable

[Pimply]

Then so.

Or so. Levitation

[Cynic]

Quote: Pimply

Levitation

Where so far to your

[ayyildiz]

Quote: Cynic

Where so far to your

[Pimply]

It's fine!

[Cynic]

Well what can I say, beautiful PR! Highly !
Only then, let's not talk about the flying 90th, otherwise I will not begin to speak out about it with tolerance!
We here together on the Israeli cars and praise the Russian on friendly terms!

[atalef]

Quote: Pimply

Or so. Levitation

Now, from the birthday of his daughter, he returned, he would have slithered into bed, with great pleasure.

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: atalef

Now, from the day of my daughter’s birthday, I’ve returned, would have slithered into bed

How much to draft age?

[Lopatov]

Are you kidding?
And young Norwegians are not funny. Now they will be shaved into the army. True, the reasons there are somewhat different than in Israel. Gender equality.

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: Spade

Gender equality.

Young beautiful girl smiling, what gender equality?

[Prohor]

This is not "equality", it is just that there are men with pee-pee-pee tolerance so “go away, they are nasty” that only women can defend the country.

[kavkaz8888]

Does a cheat do a crane there behind?

[Crang]

Especially "fun" if inside and jammed there.

[svp67]

Quote: Krang

Especially "fun" if inside and jammed there.

There is certainly no time for smiles, but with the help of BTS, crowbar, sledgehammer, special keys and autogenous solvable task ...

[svp67]

Quote: Avenger711

T-64 in the Ukrainian black soil also does not pass, removes the harp.

It is exactly under this black earth and "sharpened" ... in cross-country ability, it is on this soil that T64 is better than T72, due to the design features of the track

when dirt was forced through holes in the truck and did not clog the lugs. And the stories about the dumping of the T64 tracks are greatly exaggerated ...

[Crang]

The point is not in cross-country ability, but in the fact that the idiotic running gear of the Chicken holds the caterpillar very poorly, which, when turning, can jump off. Well, if outward - only the side screen will break.

[svp67]

Quote: Krang

The point is not in cross-country ability, but in the fact that the idiotic running gear of the Chicken holds the caterpillar very poorly, which, when turning, can jump off. Well, if outward - only the side screen will break.

For all the time of personal communication with the T64 and its operation, which is 7 years, I witnessed only one "drop" of the caterpillar ... and not at all when turning. So there is no need to exaggerate, where it is not necessary, the HCh T64 has many other negative operational qualities ...

[avkeys]

Where did you find dirt here? We have passenger cars driving along such roads

[ed65b]

throw your cart in the fall in the Tambov province, or under the tulun. Fail on the tower itself.
Auto designers made a SUV - SUV and Jews a tank - SUV.

[Pimply]

Talk nonsense. You imagine Israel as a desert, Sahara? In Israel, 4-5 months is the rainy season, with mud streams, rivers growing before our eyes, the erosion of roads and other amenities. Do not smack nonsense, it can be offended.

[ed65b]

The Ministry of Emergency Situations will call and will help to fight with spill and river floods and mountain mudflows.

[Pimply]

With his degree of theft?

[ed65b]

It does not interfere. They do their job well. So call. It’s not washed away yet.

[Pimply]

Boom fires to remember?

[Penachet]

Well, yes, we will. And you don’t have anything to burn there, sand. (By the way, is it easier on the sand, even if it’s the rainy season?)

[Vadivak]

Quote: ed65b

It does not interfere. They do their job well.

I would say perfectly, for a bowl of soup they will sign any frigging agreement on a fire

[Ivan Mechanic]

Quote: Pimply

With his degree of theft?

Didn’t they themselves steal that you so authoritatively declare theft in the Ministry of Emergencies?

[Ascetic]

Quote: Pimply

In Israel, 4-5 months is the rainy season, with mud streams, rivers growing before our eyes, the erosion of roads and other amenities.

Well, yes, from December to March it rains and then drought. As you know, from December to March, we don’t spoil winter with snowdrifts, and then the same winter is only green, as black brothers with mud and swamps say, do not spoil the same. As I recall the summer exits to the PP, so far ... there are not many pleasant memories, the Plesetsk swamps and the forest wilderness of central Russia with the attached impassability are not located for them .. That's a nice thing in winter, if you do not turn off the track, and the combat work is not weak frost is the little things in life ..
So the Israeli subtropics and rains are a child’s surprise in a small sandbox compared to Russian realities, which force one to really adapt any armored vehicles and wheeled tractors to similar conditions.

[Pimply]

Respected. Have you ever been to Israel? There are several climatic zones, dramatically different from each other. Do you have Russian tanks cutting through swamps? No. They are drowning in the swamps. Like any other tanks.

[Ascetic]

Quote: Pimply

Respected. Have you ever been to Israel?

It was necessary. In Eilat, where rain probably does not happen in Haifa

Quote: Pimply

There are several climatic zones, dramatically different from each other.

It's not that important. You can count nine zones, and four as you like. For we are talking about an assessment of the alleged theater of operations so that tanks and other equipment do not drown in the swamp. Suppose we have one and the same position during the year suitable for placement of the APU, and for example, in April May it starts to "float". From the operating experience, I had to deal with it more than once, the horizon does not hold and that's it, but after a month everything is fine ... When creating Topol-M, the developers took into account this experience, like a lot of other things. An incomplete hanging system was invented, which now allows it to be hung even on soft ground.
Here is such a small example, though not from the field of tank building, but rather characteristic of our climatic zones.

[Pimply]

Any equipment is built primarily under the theater, where it implies a country of construction. But this does not mean that she is helpless in other conditions. This is what we are talking about. Israel has a rainy season. Where there was dust in the summer, dirt becomes. And this was taken into account when developing tanks. How low temperatures are taken into account - since the tank works in mountainous and hilly areas, etc.

In the picture - Golan, a soldier pulls a caterpillar.

[Ascetic]

Quote: Pimply

Israel has a rainy season. Where there was dust in the summer, dirt becomes. And this was taken into account when developing tanks.

If, for example, assessing the buoyancy of soils in the same Chechnya and in the Arkhangelsk region, then the indicators will differ dramatically in terms of patency. Penetration is already an area of ​​engineering and intelligence. In Chechnya, tankers mounted a log across the front or rear of the tank and is attached to both tracks. When moving, the tank pulls the log under itself and at the same time runs over the log, then the log is dragged, etc. So the tank pulls itself out when it gets stuck. Something like in the commercials.



Although this method is sometimes powerless

[Rustiger]

Quote: Pimply

the fighter pulls the caterpillar.

Yes nuuuu. . . Betz just languidly resists.
This caterpillar "pulls" the fighter. And not just one.
Such is the "INSECTIVE sekas". ... ...

[ed65b]

Yes, you type in the net climate zones of Israel and everything will be clear to you. You have a deuce in geography.

[Rumata]

Quote: ed65b

Yes, you type in the net climate zones of Israel and everything will be clear to you. You have a deuce in geography.

How many times can they repeat this nonsense about tanks "for their own theater of operations", which are afraid of dirt, they cannot walk 100 km and in the same spirit.

I will explain popularly, in view of the wind rose from the Mediterranean + mountains in the north + warm streams from the Sinai Peninsula and Jordan, Israel has a very diverse and peculiar climate. This is a long known fact. Without even going into details, take a ride from Eilat to the Golan and you will see two types of deserts (desert and extreme desert climate), the so-called steppes (steppe climte) and the Mediterranean climate. This is the issue of many climates.

Now about the dirt, it’s all about the amount of precipitation. In little Israel, it ranges from 200- to 1300+. At the Golan Heights, 1400-1500 mm is not uncommon. For comparison, in the European part of Russia, on average, 650-750. 1300+ in Russia is observed only in a few places (the Black Sea Coast, the Far East and the South - Khakassia and neighbors. Only a complete layman will say that there is no dirt in Israel, it can pour for weeks without stopping, since 80% - 90% of the rainfall fall within 3 months (and not 5 as in Russia), that is, more precipitation in general + Mediterranean climate + shorter precipitation period. Simple mathematics, go for it. If it’s for cleanliness, then most of the inhabitants of the Russian Federation do not know what real rains ...

Z.Y
And to give you an idea of ​​our winters even more, I’ll tell you what happened this year. I wrote above about the amount of precipitation in the European part of the Russian Federation, in Moscow, for example, 700mm a year, this year in Haifa in three (!!!!!) days, about 300mm fell. That's it...

[Penachet]

Oh, oh, come and visit me, somewhere from November to April, there will be wind roses and rain to taste

[ed65b]

I read your opus about poor Israel, purged by arctic winds, flooded with tropical rains and drowning in mud. where poor Jewish women and men chillyly wrap themselves in fur coats in winter and cannot sunbathe in summer, rains. I felt sorry for you. I have not yet heard and read more frank garbage. Have you seen the water that is absorbed into the ground and covers it with a layer ??? Have you been or have seen spring-autumn thaw in Siberia and central Russia ???? you would at least read a Jew about the war on the eastern front and the problems of the Wehrmacht. Or are you only interested in the Holocaust? And I won’t even tell you about our winters, because in summer you will cover with ice and get sick with ice.

[atalef]

Quote: ed65b

I have not yet heard and read more frank garbage. Have you seen the water that is absorbed into the ground and covers it with a layer ??

And more than you (you generally saw a shower of the week like this for 2, practically not stopping. Or the rains are 3 months daily. I am amused by the rainfall like in St. Petersburg (all Petersburg rainfalls, rain, dew, snow), only in 3 months.

[Rumata]

Quote: ed65b

Have you been or have seen spring-autumn thaw in Siberia and central Russia ???? would you at least read a Jew about the war on the eastern front

What kind of kindergarten, I provided you with rainfall maps in Israel and Russia. I briefly explained why there are so many climate zones in Israel and there are places with very high rainfall. In response, I received some inadequate stream of words. Of course, I understand that Russia is the birthplace of elephants and everything in it is the best, the best airplanes, the best tanks, the most evil rains and the deepest mud. Want to communicate on the merits. provide FACTS, not an incoherent stream of emotions

Quote: ed65b

poor Israel, blown by arctic winds, flooded by tropical rains and drowning in mud

Quote: ed65b

Jewish women and men chillyly wrap themselves in fur coats in winter and cannot sunbathe in summer

Quote: ed65b

Or are you only interested in the Holocaust?

And what's this for? If you have anything to answer on the merits, dare, with facts, statistics, calculations of works on this topic. anything. But there is no need to show your stinginess of mind with such "comments".
If in essence there is nothing to answer, pass by. And it will soon turn out that in Russia there is more precipitation than in Peru or Brazil ...

PS
I lived in northern Israel for a long time and I know very well what winters are here. I also remember perfectly the climate of Russia. Here it is with us, it can pour 3-4 days without ceasing-


When I served, I saw with my own eyes what was going on in the winter on the Golan Heights .. What will happen if you bring tanks here -


Or here -

[M. Peter]

Quote: Pimply

Talk nonsense. You imagine Israel as a desert, Sahara? In Israel, 4-5 months is the rainy season, with mud streams, rivers growing before our eyes, the erosion of roads and other amenities. Do not smack nonsense, it can be offended.

Hello!
Not for the sake of argument, but it became interesting. As far as I remember, in Israel at the very beginning of statehood and the creation of our own army, there were German tanks, T4, it seems. Can you tell how these tanks behaved in the conditions you describe? It just became interesting, in Russia in autumn and spring, the Germans were attacking completely, at least at the beginning of the war. If your conditions were similar, that is, the presence of mud baths is simply enormous, how did German cars behave?

[Kars]

Quote: M.Pyotr

It’s German tanks, the T4 seems to be

they were with Syria, Israel Sherman

[Lopatov]

There were 10 pieces of trophy bought. And one Sherman and two Cromwells stole from the British.

But in any case, there is no need to talk about any experience of combat use in the conditions of thaw.

[ed65b]

The Jews had German tanks.

[Kars]

German grenade launchers were definitely

[Akim]

Quote: Kars

German grenade launchers were definitely

And there were tanks. Mostly fours. In general, they had a lot of German weapons delivered through Czechoslovakia and Soviet Jewish officers.

[Kars]

Quote: Akim

And there were tanks.

[Pimply]

At the beginning of creation - no. There were generally 4 viable tanks.
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/gottanks.html
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/tanks48.htm
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/sherman_meir.htm

Further also

By September 1955, Israel had 19 Meteor jet fighters, the so-called. "first generation" British production (in October 1955 it was planned to arrive 12 French "Hurricane"), and 86 tanks, incl. 76 old "Sherman" from the Second World War. Sherman hulls were obtained - literally - from scrap dumps in Europe and the Philippines, and then, with great labor and expense, they were converted into something that could move and shoot. In addition, there were 10 new, but light AMX-13 tanks, from a batch of 30 vehicles of this type (the rest had arrived by November 1955).

Egypt had about 50 British "Meteor" and "Vampire" and about 130 tanks - mostly the same Sherman, but also 32 of the newest British "Centurion". The difference in number did not worry the Israeli command too much - they firmly believed in the qualitative superiority of their soldiers. Moreover, other issues were much more acute, for example, equipping the army with modern small arms.

T4, as I recall, was not in the arsenal of the Israeli army, but was only captured in battle.

[Lopatov]

On the contrary, tanks with a rear MTO during a frontal attack with a volume explosion ammunition are protected from suction of the fuel-oxidative mixture by the hull and turret screens, which prevent the mixture from spreading in the direction of the MTO

Is not a fact. In addition, any tank after the defeat of the OD ammunition in any case will leave the battle.

[Pimply]

Yeah The number of jambs and assumptions in the article exceeds a reasonable limit. I especially liked about the Merkava shells that do not penetrate other MBTs. Especially considering the fact that this gun is also on other Western tanks, and the Israeli defense system regularly issues new types of shells. Circus.

[bubla5]

Each sandpiper praises its swamp and nest, and for us, everything Jewish is hay chewed by a ram.

[ed65b]

pimply they personally gives out to the mountain. Every day a new type.

[Pimply]

An example in the studio. Plz I wait

[ed65b]

And why wait then, not I give them away. I will not distract you from work, otherwise you will be mistaken with a new type.

[Pimply]

That is another blah blah blah, meaningless trolling, and not the ability to argue reasonably. Bravo. Should I applaud?

[ed65b]

But how can I argue with you if you have only interjections and a deuce in geography.

[igor67]

. But this is not a new type of ammunition, but it seems like nothing was already discussed on the site http://topwar.ru/26597-mnogocelevoy-tankovyy-snaryad-amp.html

[Crang]

Great article! We need to supply the most modern BOPSs for the Syrian T-72s, which can only be used in 125mm 2A46M guns. If they do climb to Syria, then see how these shells will hit the "Merkav".

[Kars]

Quote: Krang

The most modern BOPs that can only be used in 125mm 2A46M guns.

Is it Mango or something?

[Crang]

By the Syrian T-72AB, only they are visible. But they are still good, although they are inferior to the most modern BOPs. And so they can break through 500-600mm.

[Akim]

Quote: Krang

By the Syrian T-72AB, apparently only they

And nothing will fit into old AZ more than "Mango".

[Kars]

Quote: Krang

although inferior to the most modern BOPS

Is this what? Something new was adopted?

[Crang]

Already in the last topic I told you about it 150 times. You aren’t - you haven’t accepted anything new, and the cannons you have are old which are nothing new and you can’t shoot.
And here we have accepted:
a) A new 125mm 2A46M5 gun for the T-90 series (2A46M4 for the T-80U).
b) New AZ for elongated shells on the T-90 series.
c) New BOPSs ZBM-48 "Lead" and "Lead-2" with new charges to them.
All this is already there. Proving something to you, especially not knowing who you are. Naturally, no one will bring you secret documents or photographs. That would be at least idiocy. And if you don't "believe" without it - well, don't believe,

[Kars]

Quote: Krang

c) New BOPSs ZBM-48 "Lead" and "Lead-2" with new charges to them.

Can you confirm your words about the adoption of the armament and the beginning of mass production? I’m not talking about entering the warehouses - it’s a military secret.

Quote: Krang

Naturally, no one will bring you secret documents or photographs

Why? Adopting into service is almost a holiday)) And since you are talking about lead 2 then what kind of secrecy is already))))

[Crang]

Quote: Kars

Why? Adopting into service is almost a holiday)) And since you are talking about lead 2 then what kind of secrecy is already))))

When adopting new types artillery shells how was it advertised, celebrated, demonstrated to the general public? Even under the USSR, even under Stalin, has this ever happened? At least once? Appeared and appeared. Or that a parade should have been arranged on Red Square on this occasion, where a guard of honor would solemnly carry a new Lead-2 projectile in front of the VVP mausoleum standing on the tribune of the mausoleum, holding it on outstretched arms like a samurai his katana?

[Kars]

Quote: Krang

Even under the USSR

Don’t even insert the USSR))) we didn’t know about our technology, but in the West we already read in the Janess magazine))

Quote: Krang

new projectile "Lead-2" holding it on outstretched arms like a samurai his katana?

Well, do you know about him? Does this mean that secret information is available to you? So far, Khlopotov has one initial mention and that’s all)) And what about the 2A46M5 gun, I calmly read on the manufacturer’s website, why didn’t it be classified?

[Crang]

Why keep her secret? There are a total of six modifications of the T-90 tanks (excluding commander’s executions). It:
1. T-90 "Vladimir" - basic model.
2. T-90S "Bishma" - an export version of the T-90 in terms of performance characteristics approaching the T-90A.
3. T-90CA - an export version of the tank, which, with the exception of the gun and a number of combat systems, corresponds to the T-90A.
4. T-90A (object 188A1) arr. 2004
5. T-90A arr. 2006
6. T-90MS - export option.
The 2A46M5 gun is only on the last three. After adopting the T-99 tank, which has a completely different gun and other ammunition, whole series T-90 will be intended exclusively for export. The potential is great because T-90 is a very good designer that can be assembled in the desired configuration at the request of the customer. A gun, unlike shells, is an integral part of a tank and there is no point in securing it on export options.

[Kars]

Quote: Krang

Why keep her secret?

Well, yes, the gun for the new ammunition does not need to be secured, but the new ammunition is --- and not exactly the TTX, but just the adoption is necessary)))

Quote: Krang

. A gun, unlike shells, is an integral part of a tank and there is no point in securing it on export options.

But why a new cannon if new ammunition is not sold to it? And why then even mention them, as well as about a well-equipped DZ.

By the way, how much speed is the T-90A?

[Crang]

Quote: Kars

And why a new gun if new ammunition is not sold to it?

Why won't they fit? Fit - AZ T-90 is also new. In the case of the T-80U, its new 125mm 2A46M4 cannon, even with the use of old shells, provides 20% greater target hitting accuracy due to its greater rigidity. In addition, you can shoot from it those old "Mango" and "Leads", but with new charges. I do not know the performance characteristics of such a "hodgepodge", but I think that it is normal.

Quote: Kars

By the way, how much speed is the T-90A?

65km / h

[Kars]

Quote: Krang

Why not fit?

Can you read?

Quote: Krang

not sold

SELL for money a secret BTS.

Quote: Krang

65km / hr

And can a reference where it is written?

Quote: Krang

even using old shells provides 20%

Well, this is most likely fairy tales for visitors, but why they don’t keep it secret? Why is it allowed to sell a super duper new weapon abroad?

[Crang]

Quote: Kars

SELL for money a secret BTS.

So far secret. Then it will not be secret. In addition, they themselves can come up with something of their own.

[Kars]

Quote: Krang

So far secret.

Naturally, so secret that you know about him)))

[Crang]

Quote: Kars

And can a reference where it is written?

Yes, a lot, where - but it’s useless to bring you references. Any. This will automatically become for you:

Quote: Kars

Well, this is most likely a fairy tale for visitors

So there’s nothing to talk about. Only chew the same thing.

[Kars]

Quote: Krang

Yes many

)))) and did not even try))

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A2-90

Engine power, l with. T-90 (C): 840 [1]
T-90A (SA): 1000 [3]
Speed ​​on the highway, km / h 60 [1] [3]

↑ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 188 IE-4. Tank T-90S. User manual. - Nizhny Tagil: AEL (Ural Design Bureau of Transport Engineering), 1992. - T. Book 1.


1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 188 A.TO-1. Product 188A1 with ESA TP. Technical description. - Nizhny Tagil: AEL (Ural Design Bureau of Transport Engineering), 2004. - T. Part 1.

http://artofwar.ru/w/wechkanow_i_w/text_0020.shtml

The performance characteristics of the T-90 various modifications
T-90
T-90A
T-90S
T-90CA

Engine
B-84MS, 840 l. with.
B-92C2, 1000 l. with.
B-92C2, 1000 l. with.
-
Maximum speed on the highway, km / h
60
60
65 (for especially stupid --- T-90S)
-

[Akim]

Quote: Kars

Is this what? Something new was adopted?

Russian "Lead", Polish "Penetrate" Ukrainian "Konchar" (aka Pakistani "Naiza"). But they are longer and are suitable only for new AZ

[Kars]

Quote: Akim

Russian "Lead"

OBPS "Lead" (index of the projectile 3BM-46; index of the projectile with a propellant charge 3BM-48) (p / in 1986)
Sovetskiy, 86 - year, under the T-80U-UD, as I understand it was small-scale, although they told me that they were seen in our warehouses in the 2000s

[Akim]

Quote: Kars

OBPS "Lead" (

"Lead" was adopted during a difficult transition period. But according to the idea, he is in service with the Russian army. "Penetrated" in Poland, I know, is supplied to the troops. "Konchar" - they put on a small batch, and that is because it fell from development for Pakistan. And so in the brigades 3BM13 and 3BM17.

[Kars]

Quote: Akim

so in the 3BM13 and 3BM17 teams

In warehouses, there’s nothing else. I personally saw a PC for Katyusha, of course, post-war production. When Novo-Bagdanovka had not yet burned down. And in theory, everything new was supposed to go to the GSVG, and when they brought out a lot of things we had left. So it’s quite possible to be somewhere is.

[Crang]

This is another "Lead".

[Kars]

Quote: Krang

This is another "Lead".

Of course))) bluumbum. It’s another lead, do you know if you’re secret?

[Vilor]

I don't understand your irony? Are there any other tanks for you besides the 'best in the world' stronghold? Are you for the Kharkov plant or is it really your opinion? But even if it is your personal, does it not allow you to ironically mock the RA tanks? I can also ardently prove that Oplot is utter shit, and it can't do anything, and in general there are five and a half of them, and in addition no one buys it, unlike the T-90. But nevertheless, I believe that the Kharkov Design Bureau can make a really good tank. My opinion is that one more design bureau is needed to compete with UVZ. So don't be so ironic

[Akim]

Quote: Vilor

I can also prove with zeal that Oplot is utter shit,

To evaluate BM Oplot, you need at least to see how Thailand got the first batch. And the information about this is zero.

[Gooch]

Quote: Akim

To evaluate BM Oplot, you need at least to see how Thailand got the first batch. And the information about this is zero.

I read an article about the T-64E Bulat, I was surprised, it turns out that the TTX is not inferior to the T-90A in any way .. Very interesting, the Ukrainians are great, not all polymers have been lost yet

[Akim]

Quote: Gooch

I read an article about the T-64E Bulat

T-64E and BM Bulat are different cars (at least one T-64B base). BM Bulat will be in the tank, and T-64E - in mechanized brigades. It is cheaper to modernize (almost 2 times 7 million / 4,5 million hryvnia).

[Gooch]

Quote: Akim

T-64E and BM Bulat are different cars (at least one T-64B base). BM Bulat will be in the tank, and T-64E - in mechanized brigades. It is cheaper to modernize (almost 2 times 7 million / 4,5 million hryvnia).

Well, I'm not particularly aware of this, the main thing is that the tank turned out successful, and the modernization is good)

[Kars]

Quote: Vilor

Are there any other tanks for you besides the 'best in the world' stronghold?

For me, all the tanks exist, even those about which you don’t know without Google.

Quote: Vilor

Is this really your opinion?

Yes, my opinion is natural with reservations.

Quote: Vilor

Am ironically mocking RA tanks?

no, it’s over people like Krengi

Quote: Vilor

in addition, no one buys it, unlike the T-90

And who buys the T-90? Hindus who have nowhere to go, since the USSR built a factory there for the T-72? Or on credit, or the regimes to which not everyone can sell weapons. In the meantime, the only general T-90 tender was lost.

Quote: Vilor

My opinion is that one more design bureau is needed for UVZ competition. So don't be so ironic

It’s just the irony that remains, even the apostate of T-72 and UVZ Khlopotov understands, read his latest article about Armata.

[Vilor]

Thanks for reading. Believe me, I would be glad if the Kharkovites produced tanks for the Russian army, winning in competition with UVZ. True, I would like to have fair competition. I do not want to argue, much less swear. I really believe that Kharkov can make good tanks. Here the inhabitants of Israel furiously say that the Merkava is the best, then the guys from Ukraine where the best "Oplot" is, then our people start talking T-90. So everyone protects his own, and rightly so. How many people, so many opinions. You are for Oplot, I am for T-90. But I just think that your tank is good too. (just don't need to take lines out of context anymore, as we did above about the 'utter' akim)

[Akim]

Quote: Krang

This is another "Lead".

The same. They just didn't let him out for a long time. Lead-2 is probably different. Who knows (really knows) - respond.
Here is the Pakistani Niza. The warhead is very similar (or rather, this is what it is) to the BM44U.

[Kars]

is Pakistan doing it for the Al-Khalid and T-80UD or just for one?

[Akim]

Quote: Kars

so does pakistan do it?

Pakistani respondent farhan_9909 Online www.defenceforumindia.com writes that Naizu and Naizu-2 have been making themselves since last year. It is used on all three types of tanks (T-80UD, Al-Kh, Al-Z).

[Crang]

Lead-2 is different. It is purely for a new gun and the charge is reinforced there.

[Akim]

Quote: Krang

It is purely under a new gun and the charge there is enhanced.

The projectile should not be clean under a new gun. In general, 2A46M / KBA-3 can also shoot enhanced charges.

[Kars]

Quote: Krang

Lead-2 "is different. It is purely for the new gun and the charge is reinforced there.

You look, you can see the secretary, right from the KB art of ammunition))))

Quote: Akim

In general, 2A46M / KBA-3 can also shoot enhanced charges.

not too, but they’re already firing. Yes, and this is probably more a matter of the loading mechanism under an elongated projectile.

[Alex_T]

The author is a dreamer. Is there real evidence of the destruction of tanks by thermobaric ammunition? If so, please post a link. Regarding the photo from the APC. Thermobaric ammunition breaks through light armor due to the special design of the bow of the ammunition (weighted "patch", which is accelerated by the explosion of the mixture), the "bumblebee" is useless against the projectile. The shock effect of a "naked" blast wave from a thermobaric ammunition is effective against manpower, but not sufficient for a projectile "iron". The mechanism of action is described in the film "Domestic grenade launchers. History and modernity", http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qllyQ2YDf0U time 1:40:23.

[Crang]

I personally saw the destruction of an RPO-A "UAZ". After being hit, the UAZ simply disappeared. That is, it didn’t fly to pieces, as expected, but simply disappeared.

[barmaley]

Long time not been noted on the site
Although not off topic, but there is interesting material


http://www.proza.ru/2013/03/18/1942

[Black]

[quote = barmaley] Long time ago was not marked on the site
Although not off topic, but there is interesting material

Bullshit.

[Dimka off]

thanks to the author. I would also like to see articles on the weaknesses of various Western, Chinese, Japanese and other non-our tanks. Yes, and other armored vehicles.

[Pimply]

The author piled a lot of nonsense. Do you thank him for the rubbish?

[Rumata]

Quote: Pimply

The author piled a lot of nonsense. Do you thank him for the rubbish?

Moreover, the number of inaccuracies and outright nonsense, in comparison with the first article, has also increased. What will happen in the third part? Not otherwise - "The combat effectiveness of the Merkava, after they poured concrete into the cannon at night, dragged away the tracks, and the tank itself was covered with graphite ..."

[Pimply]

There was at least some attempt in the first article. Right here....

[igor67]

Quote: Rumata

Quote: Pimply

The author piled a lot of nonsense. Do you thank him for the rubbish?

Moreover, the number of inaccuracies and outright nonsense, in comparison with the first article, has also increased. What will happen in the third part? Not otherwise - "The combat effectiveness of the Merkava, after they poured concrete into the cannon at night, dragged away the tracks, and the tank itself was covered with graphite ..."

I saw this without an engine and graffiti

[alicante11]

Yes, you (the Jews, in the sense) everything that is in the minus to the Jews-all nonsense. Your planes do not fall, let’s debris from the bottom of the sea, tanks aren’t knocked out, let’s wrecked iron, which you have already taken to melt down, the special forces aren’t caught, because "they do not go in Syria, but in Israel." The S-300s are being carried out for a "time", and the Syrian air defense system is generally crap. Whereas the Pvo of Izkhrael is a wunderwaffe. In general, everything a Jew says is the ultimate truth, and everything else is just a duck. But, nevertheless, your prime minister and a crowd of his Western colleagues are arranging a pilgrimage to the GDP on the occasion of the S-300, planes are bombing Syria from Lebanon, and the vaunted IDP is afraid to get into Syria, which has been torn apart by a civil war for two years, who knows how long destroy several thousand Hezbollah militants. In general, as you can see, the thought uttered ... by the Jew is a lie. So they treat your posts, so you are trying in vain.

[ed65b]

SWAT is not caught because like the elusive cowboy Joe, nobody needs a fuck

[posad]

I wanted to see in practice how the Merkavas would burn. This material should be thrown to the Arabs

[DZ_98_B]

The Plenum of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union of 1972 decided which month I don’t remember. to create HEAVY CLASS tractors !!!! The exact form ... find it yourself. FOR ESPECIALLY DIFFICULT CONDITIONS !!! Siberia, the far north and the far east. 330 tons T53 bulldozers were created and produced. T500 71 tons. T800 120 tons. T800 for diamond quarries. were purchased and are now being purchased for SIBERIA, TYUMEN T. E FOR SWAMP. Bulldozers Catopillers D11T 105tonn. D10T 67 tons. kamatsu D355 66 tons. It's about cross

[DZ_98_B]

This tank is not for sale. No one is selling it. This is a product for domestic consumption. why blame him? Need to study !!!!

[combat192]

Nobody buys it.

[DZ_98_B]

Israeli warriors, prayer. tell the weight of the engine. if not hard?

[ed65b]

Each tank has its own Russian minuses, too, and we can recognize this. you rested like ..... on a new gate and sputtering prove that your cart is cooler than the mountains in the Caucasus. Well, you don’t have a tank building school. There are gifts from the scary brother and his financing of your entire defense. Like what - Give a brother money, brother I have to be stronger than Arabs - give money, cover the sky, give submarines, sucking bugs and a lot of show-offs.

[Pimply]

No one talks about the cooler mountains in the Caucasus. It is about not writing idiotic articles and not talking nonsense about a tank for even terrain and desert. Merkava has his own flaws, but no need to invent them.

[Totenkopff]

Nobody comes up with them, MBT should behave in any terrain and in any weather completely in combat readiness, imagine this 70-ton tank will fall into the swamp ?. the bottom line is that tanks are created based on the combat experience of the great war, and what is the experience of the Jews? Arab wars on American tanks? conclusion one this tank is not adapted for warfare in the conditions of a large war and importing them abroad is impossible ....

[Pimply]

Imagine. And what will happen if 50 tons? Do you think there will be strong differences?

The tank needs proper driving. And so that they won’t send him to the swamps

[ayyildiz]

Quote: Pimply

Tank needs proper driving

[Pimply]

Yeah. And I also recall a few idiots who managed to turn the hammer over twice. Nerds everywhere enough. That's why I say - competent driving, the tanker's head should be on his shoulders.

[ayyildiz]

Pimply ([/ quote]
People tend to make mistakes!

[ayyildiz]

Tank needs proper driving

[Pimply]

That's right. indestructible.

[Crang]

And who invented what? All weak points were clearly sorted out and indicated. Now any stump and 12-year-old NUB knows how to destroy a Merkava-MK.4 tank. Good, helpful stuff.

[Kars]

Quote: Krang

Now any stump and 12-year-old NUB knows how to destroy a Merkava-MK.4 tank. Good, helpful stuff.

Oh yes it will do it with a thermoboric grenade, and not cumulative. Aiming so that the cloud would suck in the MTO)))

[Crang]

What's the problem? Lattices are a vulnerable area of ​​any tank. It's just that the "Merkava" has them in the most bombarded places.

[Kars]

Quote: Krang

It's just that the "Merkava" has them in the most bombarded places.

True chtoli? I always thought that every more or less intelligent person tries to shoot the tank at the side or rear projection.

[alicante11]

If there are no vulnerabilities in the forehead. It seems that to strengthen the defense, ext is always booked stronger. And here comes the weakening.

[Kars]

Quote: alicante11

. And here comes the weakening.

Where is the weakening? Fences are not on the VLD, but on the roof of the hull

[alicante11]

And the roof of the hull is not affected by anything? Is there a conservation area?

[Kars]

Quote: alicante11

And the roof of the hull is not affected by anything? Is there a conservation area?

Well, find and give an example of a tank with anti-shell armor of the roof of the hull. For example, I will throw Abrashu.

[Dimka off]

Quote: Kars

True chtoli? I always thought that every more or less intelligent person tries to shoot the tank at the side or rear projection.

Well, it depends on what. If there is an ATGM Cornet / Hornet or RPG-28 - then why not? Such weapons can be used in the forehead.

[Kars]

Quote: Dimka off

If there is an ATGM Cornet / Hornet or RPG-28 - then why not

Well .. smart .. people always have enough. What a hornet I don’t know, but from RPG 28 it’s basically the lot of suicides.

[Dimka off]

Hornet is a third-generation Belarusian anti-tank missile system (ATGM). Designed to destroy armored vehicles, protected objects (such as a bunker, bunker, bunker) and low-flying low-speed targets (helicopters, UAVs).
Penetration behind dynamic protection at a meeting angle of 60 °
- 130 mm caliber rocket - not less than 800 mm
- 152 mm caliber rocket - not less than 1100 mm

Quote: Kars

and from RPG 28 this is basically the lot of suicides.

in open areas yes, in urban combat - no. He jumped out of the gap - fired, washed off.

[Kars]

Quote: Dimka off

- 130 mm caliber rocket - not less than 800 mm
- 152 mm caliber rocket - not less than 1100 mm

All this is given by homogeneous armor. And it is far from the fact that in real conditions it will strike. But it is still not recommended to shoot from the frontal projection.

Quote: Dimka off

and open area, yes, in urban combat - no. He jumped out of the gap - fired, washed off.

He jumped out, missed the palnul and got it from the machine gun. And he jumped too close and the grenade didn’t.

[Dimka off]

Quote: Kars

But to shoot from the frontal projection is still not recommended.

it is so of course.

Quote: Kars

He jumped out, missed the shot, and got it from the machine gun.

that is why grenade launchers themselves do not work. This is done by a group - someone leads a distracting fire, someone sets fire to tanks.

Quote: Kars

And he jumped too close and the grenade on the platoon did not.

Well, here you really need to think about where and how to jump out. Of course, the dynamics of the battle goes on and everything changes quickly, but then it's better to take with a "margin". Indeed, in war, in addition to knowledge and skills, you need to have ingenuity and considerable.

[Kars]

Quote: Dimka off

it is so of course.

Well, I'm about the same.

Quote: Dimka off

This is precisely why grenade throwers themselves do not work. This is done by a group - someone leads a distracting fire, someone sets fire to tanks

but it’s the most difficult thing to do from the frontal projection.

Quote: Dimka off

Well, here you have to think where and how to jump out

Well, how else should we take into account the forward movement of the tank, and that in the frontal sector the driver-driver is very carefully observing. The frontal armor plates have the most bizarre forms of tilt. Yes and the gun very often, more often than looking at the side or stern, just in front.

[Cynic]

Quote: Kars

Well, I'm about the same.

Well, direct anti-tank allowance, in general _ Knowledge to the masses!

[Prohor]

Oh, yes - the very grenade that no one in Armenia really saw! Having previously destroyed a radar from an unprecedented Emirate rifle from 2 km away!

[ed65b]

Of course it’s not possible, because nobody needs this trough. And cunning Jews came up with a slogan about the unique uniqueness of the tachanka that it was impossible to sell it to the side. And the crowd of sufferers to buy this miracle is increasing day by day. But our tanks suck. And I have to listen from some strangers in my country to give birth to this ... Go through the forest.

[Eric]

Quote: Professor

Such a small cloud-selective, not covering the entire tank. crying And when will they hit the tank from behind or from the side? wink

Your tank will still lose the ability to conduct hostilities, if I'm not mistaken, all the reconscopes and instruments break the pressure!

[Yuriwhite]

I wonder why the publisher publishes such provocative materials. Looks like a little people got excited :) After all, the whole World knows that the best tanks are Abrams and Merkava :))) True, for some reason they are buying the T-90, but these are trifles.
But seriously - as a country that does not have a tank building school, nor its own production, assembling its "unique" tanks from foreign components, etc. etc. Can say that her tank is the best in the world - it smells like a madhouse :)

[tybaran]

Merkava is not for sale by Israel. where did your friend, the leader of Hezbollah, go? sitting in a shelter for 7 years? Well, the heroes !!!!
remember - Israel will tear all. look at our history, how many warriors are against a tiny country, and we live and produce, unlike you, who fed banana regimes all their lives and starved people. in the 70s, the shelves were empty ....

[DZ_98_B]

Decisions of the Central Committee of the CPSU and the Council of Ministers dated 28.02.72 It was recommended to Soviet tractor builders to develop and put into production heavy-duty tractors ...... T330 T500 T800 bulldozers were developed and put into production Weight T330 53 T. T500 71T T800 120T ..... . Do you consider yourself smarter than the Central Committee of the CPSU ???

[_CAMOBAP_]

IMHO, I doubt that a sniper rifle, even a modern and large-caliber super-duper, can effectively hit sensors on a tank at a distance of up to 2000m. Still, there is a big difference between the concepts of "maximum range" and "effective range". And the "Merkava" ... but what about the "Merkava" - the tank was created for operations in a limited theater of operations, in one climatic zone - hence all its features.

[Thunderbolt]

Quote: _CAMOBAP_

I doubt that from a sniper rifle, even a super-duper modern and large-caliber, you can effectively hit the sensors on the tank at ranges up to 2000m.

Only sabers and peaks (Jerzy Kosak "Battle of Kutno" 1939)

[Akim]

Quote: Thunderbolt

Jerzy Kosak "Battle of Kutno" 1939)

I feel sorry for the horse.

[Thunderbolt]

The law of the genre is the most worried when you see the torment of children and animals. Therefore, it was not just that the author placed a suffering horse in the center of the composition .. 25 years ago my father told me that the Poles were attacking German tanks with cavalry lavas. How did he know ? Probably there was such an episode, and eventually became a legend.

[Pimply]

Chased the foot soldiers, ran into tanks. And immediately it became clear that the tanks were in charge.

[phantom359]

And where did these hedgehogs dig such tanks?

[Pimply]

These are not tanks.

[Thunderbolt]

Quote: Pimply

These are not tanks.

And can you give a little more detail ..?

Quote: Pimply

These are not tanks.

[Pimply]

These are tanks. Understand nada 8))

[Thunderbolt]

This is your identity Taanchiki

[Cynic]

Quote: Pimply

These are tanks. Understand nada 8))

This is not to be understood
The international classification of diseases (mental disorders) identifies seven types of fanaticism: religious, political, ideological, fanaticism of health, scientific fanaticism, sports stands out in a separate group, fanaticism in the field of art.
And the artist, he, this is the most, an artist with real life is somehow at odds

We all remember how it ended?

[DZ_98_B]

We are interesting people, we are discussing a tank that we have never seen, and I hope we will never see it. Carrot is a good tank and it will crawl through the swamps quite normally. And someone can write about a car created for the greenhouse conditions of Europe, but won fame in the wilds of SIBERIA? ....... MAGIRUS !!!!

[Kars]

Quote: DZ_98_B

... MAGIRUS !!!!

As I understand it, some kind of tractor.

As for never seeing --- well, sooner or later I will visit the Latrun Museum.

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: Kars

As for never seeing --- well, sooner or later I will visit the Latrun Museum.

Oh, if they don’t give money, the museum will disappear. The army draws it on its budget, and money is always lacking.

[Gooch]

Magirus dump truck German, in our area still rides on BAM participated IMHO a good device

[Normal]

Quote: Kars

Quote: DZ_98_B
... MAGIRUS !!!!
As I understand it, some kind of tractor.

Super! And the T-90 is an attack aircraft! The heir to the glory of IL-2

[Pimply]

In Latrun, prototypes are different from vehicles armed with weapons. A nobleman, I took the oath there.
The first impression of Merkava was how light it was (it was painted white from the inside) and spacious.

[combat192]

She is not ideal. She is an ordinary, very good tank, a tank of a constantly howling country. But with all the advantages and disadvantages attached.

You clung to this "Merkava". The tank is good. But! Created for one specific region and for solving a narrow range of tasks (infantry support).
For the European (and for the rest of Russia), the tank is useless, except to carry a set of TMMs for each tank company. Let me explain: look at the large-scale maps (found on the net). Look at the characteristics of, for example, the Nara River in Mos. area and similar small rivers. For "Merkava" they are impassable, and the standard carrying capacity of bridges is 60 tons. The weight of the latest modifications is 68 - 70 tons.
And more about weight. What is the carrying capacity of a standard railway platform for transporting equipment, right - 64 tons. More questions?

[Pimply]

The standard carrying capacity of most bridges is 20 tons.

[Totenkopff]

Now Armata will be fully developed all Jewish "Merkavas" and American Abrams with German Leopards will bite their elbows with even greater speed, because the guts are too thin to make a truly magnificent and powerful Murder weapon in our case Tank

[Rumata]

Quote: Totenkopff

Now Armata will be fully developed all Jewish "Merkavas" and American Abrams with German Leopards will bite their elbows with even greater speed, because the guts are too thin to make a truly magnificent and powerful Murder weapon in our case Tank

Hurray comrades !!!!

[Massik]

I got tired of reading it, and at the same time I didn’t get real tankers 1-2, and besides them, hardly anyone is well versed in the subject (that is, I felt and skated) I personally do not care much about tanks because I am not a tanker. Discuss what you can at least use ....

[combat192]

Yes, I'm not a tanker, I'm a scout. Extreme position in the army - Art. Officer RO 58 Army. He resigned as a lecturer in the department of intelligence and foreign armies of the OA of the RF Armed Forces.
And by the way, I saw the live result of the fire of the 30-mm BMP-2 guns with high-explosive shells at the T-72. Impressive. Everything that protrudes from the armor has been cut off. The tank went blind. And then he died. (Art. Shelkovskaya, 2000)

[Akim]

Quote: combat192

And by the way, I saw a live result of the fire of a 30-mm BMP-2 gun with high-explosive fragmentation shells at T-72

I saw how 2A42, from a distance of 350 meters on the target, the T-64A hits with armor-piercing. Maybe in motion the tank is lucky. But a static target ... I would not want to be in that carriage.

[Genady1976]

In the photo, the rear of the Merkava tank turret with the KAZ Trophy mounted. Visible rear radar stations.
and where are enti miracle radars

[Pimply]

You can’t see them in this photo.

[DIME]

The complete nonsense article. One sensible idea is the appearance in the future of ground anti-radar ammunition (as soon as KAZ becomes a really common thing), since this is almost no difficulty. In fact, the device is a simple-passive device, 2 antennas with a narrow radiation pattern, pointing to the same direction, detonation at a distance with the formation of a shock nucleus against the antenna.
PS and stop talking nonsense about the "other theater" of military operations for the carrot. Jews don't need to fight in other theaters, so don't care if he can go there or not. And what he has to do, he knows how to 5+.
And there is nothing to speak for the Arabs, they only did what dishonored our equipment, could not learn to use it intelligently (unlike the Jews).

[ed65b]

Yes, not for the Arabs. And MBT must and must fight everywhere from the desert to the Arctic.

[il grand casino]

And why the hell does AOI fight in the Arctic? The tank is not export. And they were never going to sell it. For his tasks, he is very good. A universal technology is simply not in nature

[Kars]

Quote: il grand casino

The tank is not export. And never intended to sell it

This mantra has already been repeated twenty times ----- They will sell it to Merkava if someone is interested. The ban was lifted either in 2006 or 2008. There was a serious incident with Coluibia, South America, but it didn’t grow together, but it most likely failed because of the price , he and the Israeli slave, by force and bells and whistles, cost less than 5 million. And expensive tanks are bought either from their manufacturers supporting national manufacturers, or they are bought by Arab sheikhs, which you yourself understand is not kosher.

[Pimply]

Not in 2008. The secret was removed in 2010. Colombia was offered in 2012. Initially, the chances of a deal are estimated to be insignificant. Given how many such transactions are usually concluded, there is still a chance.

[Pimply]

They sell tank technology from him.

[Kars]

Quote: Pimply

They sell tank technology from him.

Well, I don’t know ---- the thermal imaging is the thermal imager, even though it is on Merkava at least on the T-55. So we are interested in a holistic object.

Although someone was interested in passive hinged armor, it somehow proved to be very poor, dynamic would work better for me. Even in Lebanon 2006. By the way, I saw some T-72 modernization with characteristic armor, but its fate is unknown.

[Kars]

Immediately feels the hand of Massada))))

[Pimply]

Yes, yes, yes, she is the most 8)

[Genady1976]

Quote: Pimply

The radar, of course, is a large plate, not covered by anything, the tank runs by itself, and in the area it’s so easy to grumble out of 12.7 around the tank. Shot from a machine gun of this caliber?

Find the radar in the picture. And try to get on it from a distance of at least 300 meters

[flint71]

The panoramic sight broken by a sniper shot. January 1995 (Photo from the archive of V. Belogrud)

If desired, and favorable conditions, you can get anywhere.

[Pimply]

Can. And you can probably knock out a tank with a bullet. Only problematic

[Igor39]

Judging by the comments of some "comrades" Jewish tanks are the most tank tanks in the world! God's chosen tanks!

[shamil]

to fight the Palestinian people with

[ed65b]

This is how we can.

[ed65b]

I'm wondering, will the "cart from the south" fit the hill?

[Pimply]

It all depends on the material of the mountain and the driver.

To climb concrete, you need slightly different tracks, for example. And so - I saw a video where the merkava crawled upward at an angle of 55 degrees

[tybaran]

not bois - it will fit, just like you in Raska got into a deep ass in Chechnya. hee hee.

[faraon]

After reading the article and the posts to it, guys what you are arguing about is better than fighting vehicles. Let's start from the opposite. A combat vehicle is created for a certain region, for a certain type of resistance and to argue about the pickups and shortcomings of a combat vehicle is simply not correct it doesn’t make sense. Russian weapons are good, they have been supplied and delivered to many countries starting from 34 and ending with the latest developments. Let us pose a different question. Survivability of the machine and its crew. And we will carry out statistics, otherwise come on the side, with Idi, pturs lau, cornet ...... All tanks burn regardless of the country of the manufacturer. Let’s take into account tactical data, motor resources, survivability. Now this is an indicator for modern warfare. For Merkov’s tank, you don’t need most of all the developments that cost on Russian tanks we live in the desert, we don’t need a car with increased cross-country ability. Yuu Merkova tanks have completely different tactical tasks, unlike Russian-made tanks. Well, the last of our army is not an ogressor (although it does not exclude the possibility of delivering preventive strikes) with the army of the DEFENSE OF ISRAEL, and this is a completely different direction of weapons.

[Cynic]

Quote: faraon

Let's pose a different question. Survivability of the machine and its crew

So no one argues with this!
This has been said more than once !!!
But the theme is

Constructive vulnerabilities of the main combat vehicle AOI "Merkava Mk.4". Continuation

From this and dance!

Quote: faraon

our army is not an ogressor (although it does not exclude the possibility of carrying out preemptive strikes) we have an army of ISRAEL DEFENSE, and this is a completely different direction of armament.

Here it pleases _

Quote: faraon

does not preclude preemptive strikes

And then the Japanese have only Self Defense Forces and that’s it! True, mindful of the provisions of Article 9 of the Constitution of Japan, which exclude the possibility of possessing full-fledged armed forces with offensive potential, some of their weapons look unconstitutional.

[128mgb]

Guys, look at the First in Space, EEEh, what did we do without them !!!! (drunk)

[homosum20]

Technique is great (p-re * red). But people are fighting. Neither the state soldiers, nor the Jews are ready to die for their values. In contrast to the Syrians (and where to go), Iranians and Hezbollah (they have nothing to lose at all). Our DUTY is to supply them with weapons. They'll do the rest. "Democratic" people will be washed in blood. But if we surrender our allies, we'll wash ourselves. And not only our own, but also our children and wives.

[posad]

I wrote it right! We must learn to fight with the wrong hands.

[ed65b]

Comrades Jews, I now understand why you are at war with the Arabs and will be at war with them for another 1000 years, because you are the same as they are stubborn. You’ll be bloody, but you will prove that there is more snow in Israel than in Russia in the north and rains more than in Siberia, and this is for me a Siberian. I will not talk about the northern tracts and winter roads where I can move around only in winter. talk about frosts on the golan yourself without realizing that frost frost is different. Here, the guys Russians represent our vast country. And each of them sees thaw and frost, well, at least for -20 from 2 weeks to 3 months. About starting from Omsk and ending with Birobidzhan I will keep silent -40, and lower for at least 2 months without a thaw. about rains and dirt, I humbly keep silent as I understand the useless pursuit and waste of time. In general, I summarize live with a sense of everything most unique-Jewish from the weather to tanks and envy us not unique but invincible and condescending, able to value friendship and hate enemies. Russians forward, we will tear everyone.

[Wild_grey_wolf]

Pavlodar, a little south of Omsk -40 from mid-December to early February ... I doubt that they have it there at the equator, and their father in Zhigansk is Sakha Yakutia, so they have -40 it's warming up warmly)))) by the way you guys argue here for more than a day, I liked it, I really wanted to have more technical discussion, and not a dispute

[Rumata]

Before you write something, learn to read carefully!

Quote: ed65b

Wed .. but you will prove that there is more snow in Israel than in Russia

Where did I write about snow? Is there a word about snow in my comments? I understand that the Chukchi is not a reader, the Chukchi is a writer, but is it really so difficult to carefully read?

Quote: ed65b

more rains with slime than in Siberia,

Yes, it rains more. There are many places on the planet where it rains more. The amount of rain is, roughly speaking, annual precipitation in mm. Most of all falls in the tropics near the equator, and more than in Russia there are very many where, for example, the USA, the coast of the Pacific and Atlantic oceans, the Mediterranean region (!!!), China and many more. Russia in terms of rainfall is approximately in the middle. Here's a study for those who did not study geography at school

Quote: ed65b

talk about frosts on the golan yourself without realizing that frost frost is different.

Some circus tent. Where did I talk about frosts? Here, many people think that in Israel there is no dirt, high cross-country ability of tanks, for DIRT, and only desert. I showed the opposite. I did not write a word about -40 frost.

Quote: ed65b

about rains and dirt, I humbly keep silent as I understand the useless pursuit and waste of time.

What kind of nonsense? That is, if Russia was a hot day, then a priori in Russia the hottest days on the planet? There are facts of annual precipitation, the composition of the soil that affects the cross-country ability, in extreme cases there are impressions such as myself, who lived in the Far East and in Israel.

Quote: ed65b

In general, I summarize live with a sense of everything most unique-Jewish from the weather to tanks and envy us not unique but invincible and condescending, able to value friendship and hate enemies.

I did not write about uniqueness. It is you who poke me with some kind of spherical mud in a vacuum that other tanks will not pass through, because, it seems, in your opinion there is no such thing anywhere else. If you wrote about snow, -40, cross in a snowstorm, overcoming water obstacles, I would not say a word. But when they write nonsense, you have to take an educational program.

I brought you the facts, you write me your opinion based on FIG knows what. It feels like I spent my time on a schoolboy. I hope others write the above will be useful or interesting.

[Totenkopff]

Personally, I had an opinion about you, Mr., as a person proving to all of us that Israel, as a very small state without a tank building school, was able to build a tank capable of surviving and fighting in any situation and weather, be it in heat or frost, and the above examples are based solely on the facts about your tank that can repeat the story of the German T-3 T-4 that got bogged down in mud and snow at 41 .... by the way on which you fought with the Arabs .....

[Rumata]

Quote: Totenkopff

Personally, I had an opinion about you, Mr., as a person proving to all of us that Israel, as a very small state without a tank building school, was able to build a tank capable of surviving

I never proved it. Too often, on this site, it jumps "and the Merkava can only ride through the deserts, only for its own theater of operations." The main theater of the Merkava is the Golan Heights, at least so its creators believed. Do you really think that they did not take into account the rather difficult conditions at this very theater.

[Cynic]

Quote: Rumata

I hope others write the above will be useful or interesting.

It is unlikely that the climate planetary review you wrote can be of interest only to primary school students.
And generally respected Don rumata your business is to carry the good beautiful eternal, and you are interested in deadly machines, and even push sophism into the unenlightened masses!

[Rumata]

Quote: Cynic

may be of interest only to primary school students.

Judging by what I'm reading here, a lot of commentators do not even reach the elementary grades.

Quote: Cynic

and even sophism is pushing into the unenlightened masses!
bully

And where is sophism?

[Totenkopff]

Yes, there’s always someone who’s talking about something and lousy about the bath. That's the forum.

[Alexander D.]

The author of the article has obvious anti-Semitism. The article is more devoted to thermobaric shells than to the tank itself. The tank has already dragged along in the course of the play. And about the consequences of the explosion for Merkava - probably composed with Khlopotov.

[Totenkopff]

It's all the Jews to blame

[Pimply]

One hundred pounds, they are!

[Lopatov]

I went into the kitchen, and there is not even hot in the tap ... What are the fiends doing! ..

[Witold]

I read the previous article and this one. Bluff and tales. I don’t even want to go into details, it was enough to see the address of the site of the enterprise where I work in 10 photos with watermarks and everything fell into place. This is the website of IWI - Israeli Weapons industry. The company produces only light weapons and has nothing to do with tanks. http://www.israeli-weapons.com/store/index.html

[Pimply]

Oh man with IWI.

Something interesting is possible on the new convectors for the Tavors (5.45 and 7.62), and it seems like the new versions of the Negev went into operation.
And what else is interesting at IWI, besides entering the US market.

[Witold]

Interesting? Negev 7.62x51, Negev with a single firing position and with optics can be used as a sniper rifle up to 800 m. Tavor 7.62x39, a large order for one of the countries that refused AK, but having a huge number of BP, decided to switch to Tavor with the same caliber, as well as ACE-31 7.62x39, a Galil sniper rifle, which I hold in my hands and a sniper rifle with a bolt action of 0.338 magnum caliber. And the pistols are different. In the third world, there is now a tendency to abandon AK and move to more modern weapons. Ukraine - Negev and Tavor, India - the first order for 300000 Tavor, Vietnam - we are building a factory for the production of tavors under license, Colombia - the factory for the production of ACE 5.45x45 is in full swing

[Totenkopff]

Naturally .... Exactly the same bluff as the fact that this machine can become a serious opponent for other modern tanks as well as their means of destruction .......

[Leon]

You’ll find out on your tank

[fero]

All this is of course entertaining, but I wonder if Merkava is designed for operation in a cold climate? ... Starting a diesel engine, lowering the tensile strength of structural materials at low temperatures, etc.
If it is not calculated, then thank God, let it only travel around the "promised land"

[Andreas]

The use of OFS against armored vehicles:
V. Murakhovsky
ABOUT THE ROLE OF ARTILLERY IN COMBATING RESERVED GOALS
http://otvaga2004.ru/kaleydoskop/kaleydoskop-art/artillerii-v-borbe-s-br/#