Military Review

USE as a mirror of the modern education system

190

Exam or ...?

The Unified State Exam is an effective option for testing and evaluating the knowledge and skills of graduates - 97 (6.25%)
6.25%
in place of the exam you need to return the Soviet version of the final exams - 1158 (74.61%)
74.61%
neither the USE nor the Soviet version for an objective assessment of the knowledge and skills of modern graduates are suitable, something else is required - 297 (19.14%)
19.14%
Nevertheless, it’s a good idea to introduce the universal Unified state exam in the Russian regions! Now it’s hard to remember what our country was discussing so vigorously in the first summer month. Preparation for the holidays has relaxed our people utterly, but now news the flow relating to the Unified State Examination alone is so wide and powerful that sometimes it’s difficult to catch other news ...


USE as a mirror of the modern education system


To begin with, we present a selection of headlines from various Russian publications, to once again feel how happy the Russian people are with the introduction of the Unified State Exam for naturally unbiased and certainly objective assessment of the knowledge and skills of our graduates.

Arguments and Facts: "On the Internet, we found some of the ready-made tasks for the exam in literature and geography".

RIA News: "In social networks offer to buy CIMs and tickets for the exam before the exam".

Moscow Komsomol: "A member of the Commission on the Unified State Exam in Voronezh solved the tasks of students via MMS".

Utro.ru: "Docent found hanged after the scandal with the exam."

Газета.ру: "The prosecutor's office of Stavropol appealed to the UK after the scandal with inquiries for the exam."

Lenta.ru report: "Livanov did not find anything terrible in the USE leaks".

NTV: “In social networks they trade USE tasks in geography”.

First channel: "EGE-tourism: on the eve of the examinations, schoolchildren of large cities were massively transferred to rural schools".

You can continue more and more. A whole avalanche of information with a clearly negative color, dedicated to the Unified State Examination, literally overwhelmed Russia. If some time ago (before the universal introduction of the Unified State Examination) to get a high score on the exam was prestigious, today it comes to the fact that the prosecutor's office is checking the so-called 100 scores, almost everyone individually. It would seem, why all these checks, really diligent graduate can not answer all the exam questions correctly. Yes, he can, but here again not personal knowledge of a single student, but other precedents come to the first place. There are many. Starting with the Dagestan "experts" of the Russian language, who literally "bundles" wrote the exam only for 100 points, and ending with the "sick" 11-graders of Stavropol, who, as it turned out, are so sick that they can not pass the exam on a general basis, but but on special grounds they can pass it no less than a hundred points.

On the “Military Review”, the EGE theme is raised quite regularly. The reason is simple. Exam frankly can not cope with its task. In pedagogical groups it is difficult to find a person who would be satisfied with the modern United State Exam. And discontent is truly ambitious and diverse. The main reason for dissatisfaction is that such a final exam is a banal self-deception, which the interested persons are trying to expose as a joy for national education. Radiation? Well, I do not! How can we talk about joy when the task of the exam is not at all in an objective and impartial assessment of the competences of the student, but in giving the student the opportunity to cross the barrier through some suitable means. And they “roll over” through it differently. Someone is solely on their own, as they are accustomed to gnawing on granite of science without outside help, and someone through a whole network of various kinds of assistants, consultants, witnesses, and others. Here we are ready to go on all heartburns in order to earn a certain point for ourselves. At the same time, many graduates are a priori sure that without outside help they will not pass this exam in any way. Not everyone is ready to understand that the tasks of the Unified State Exam in recent years have greatly eased. Some kind of close to the subconscious fear rules the minds of many schoolchildren who enter the classroom for the Unified State Examination just on the scaffold ... The psychological factor here, perhaps, is the main one. That is what fraudsters of all stripes use.

Some publish answers to tests on the Web, trying to increase the attendance of their Internet sites, others sell ready-made solutions, others offer their services as an assistant when taking the exam, the fourth generally enter the audience under the guise of students. And if these were isolated cases, then everything could be attributed to the theory of probabilities ... They say, well, anything can happen - fraudsters and rogues are in any sphere of life activity. But the fact of the matter is that the very system of conducting the current state examination gives rise to whole branched fraudulent structures around it. It spawns across the country. There is no region in which the scandal connected with the USE would not manifest itself.

In this, let's say, business (and the business here is still some kind: from preparatory tutoring to that very criminal assistance directly during the exam) tens of thousands of people are employed. As can be seen from the same headings presented above, both the schoolchildren themselves and the members of the “impartial” examination boards are involved in the business. It is perhaps not even the Audit Chamber and all fiscal authorities put together to estimate the scale of the money turnover in this area. One thing is obvious: business is often associated with a criminal orientation, which is not only in, say, the specificity of earnings, but also in the fact that for a certain number of graduates their knowledge may not be assessed for a number of reasons. Thus, the folded system strikes at the present of the country - at its economy, but most importantly - at its future, since the same “expert” 100-balloon, which passed the Examination State Exam on the certificate, is a time bomb that can jerk into the most unexpected moment. Can the person who himself offered money for a certain result on the Unified State Examination in the future refuse a bribe if, God forbid, he turns out to be in a leading position. But it will turn out! .. Those who are accustomed to do everything themselves and achieve results by their own mind and diligence are unlikely to occupy chairs in high offices (with rare exceptions), but how many children in the country are deputies, mayors, prosecutors, heads of customs administrations and other officials whose name is legion. And all these gentlemen for their children want a better life - to the chairs heated by their fifth points ... They will go to any trick, if only the child passes the exam so that the doors of only the best world universities open before him. And they open up like that Sim-Sim ...

So, it turns out that the objective USE is a big fiction that solves the tasks of a certain circle of people? The case when honesty is a big vice. It turns out that we don’t need honesty ourselves: it’s much easier to “give a paw” than to tune yourself (your children) to high-quality education with at the same time high-quality preparation for the final exam ... It’s much easier to get a member of the board with the support of a commission member than to read the program in literature, mathematics, study the rules of the Russian language, practice physical experiments ... Excuse me, does loot decide everything here too?

And if it solves, today the USE helps to find not at all provincial talents in order to give them the opportunity to enter prestigious universities, but scampers and lazy people who are ready to solve all their problems for several large bills. Talents need to be helped, talentless people will break through themselves - today this is definitely not for the Russian version of the USE. Why? Yes, because a self-respecting graduate will not be exchanged for the use of MMS-tips, notes with the correct answers for the battery of the lobby, examination sheets filled with ready-made solutions, All this is a lot of ushly - counting to catch a fat fish in muddy water.

Yes, in the exam there is a benefit. There are quite a few graduates who, with the help of professional teachers, acquire the necessary knowledge and skills through their work, and then, based on the results of the Unified State Exam, they enter higher education institutions. But in addition to honest guys, they are attached to a no less number of outspoken mediocrity, who made their way into the "multi-bullet points" due to the thick wallets of their parents (patrons).

You say: what's the problem, wasn’t it like before? Yes it was, it was - no one argues. Bribe takers and gentlemen missed at all times. But if in this respect nothing has changed radically, but only aggravated, then why all this monkey labor?

Hassle
The monkey is full of mouth:
Chump she will incur,
That way, that syk will embrace him,
Either whit or roll;
Sweat pours down the river from the poor thing;
And, finally, she, breathing heavily, breathes:
And he doesn’t hear any praise from anyone ...

The USE not only fails to fulfill its main function - a barrier to corruption, but also systematically breeds a system of total fraud. The administration system, if not completely failed, is relegated to those who are trying in every way to grab hold of the feeder. They say that there is nothing bad in the USE, the system is honed and will soon bring positive results. So it already brings ... It is enough to walk through social networks to complete tasks in all subjects from beginning to end, even if your knowledge tends to the field of absolute zero ... In the era of Internet development and the absence of real punishments for weak administration and powerful corruption activities, the Unified State Exam turns into profanation .

I would like to appeal to our officials in charge of education: good people, well, how many facts of fraud must be established during the unified state examination so that this system will be radically revised. Is it still not clear that the USE is a loophole for crooks of all stripes who hide behind the words about the need to reform education. Reforming what? What was one of the best on the planet, and what even our “sworn friends” confirmed ... Now we have reformed.

I would like to ask the president: Vladimir Vladimirovich, and maybe not to be afraid - to spit on this exam, and to return the time-tested system of assessing the knowledge and skills of graduates? ..

Officials from Minobra are silent, the president is silent ...

But if the Unified State Exam, which does not respond to the realities of life and to the social needs of the Unified State Examination, means that someone needs it ...


PS The plans of the Ministry of Education and Science with 2014, means not only the "development" of the USE, but also the introduction of a new position in Russian schools - a tutor. This "native Russian" term refers to a specialist who will deal with the so-called pedagogical support of schoolchildren. Now, it is tutors who, instead of class teachers or counselors, will “take on” students in the matter of their education. Who specifically in the Russian education system needs such changes, and why suddenly class leaders, judging by the reform, have ceased to cope with the sowing of rational, kind, eternal - it is not clear. One gets the impression that this renaming is from the “militia - police” series, which doesn’t carry a truly effective component, but it carries an important reformatory tick in documents with regular bureaucratic bonuses for rationalization in teaching and educating young people. Only after graduation from universities about 35 thousands of graduates in 2012, immediately took shape at the labor exchange. And a significant part of these 35 thousands joined the army of the unemployed.
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  1. domokl
    domokl 18 June 2013 08: 37 New
    +35
    The Unified State Exam system was originally built as vicious. Equal rights for Muscovites and a guy from the Ural village were ensured? On admission, yes. Even the guy has more chances (I don’t know why the Caucasus and the regions give better lol ), but then what do we have? The first session and universities are left without students ... Dudy go to their groves. And no one canceled the release plan.
    And engineers come to production who do not distinguish a bolt from a screw. To raise the industry? And with whom? With diplomas? So I need a specialist, not a diploma.
    It is necessary to abandon this egalitarianism and return to the Soviet education system.
    1. Dimy4
      Dimy4 18 June 2013 09: 06 New
      +21
      True true. An electrical engineer comes to work to get a job. I gave him the button starter and wire, assemble, I say the asynchronous start-up circuit. He did not succeed in the staff of electricians, I did not take him.
      1. sergey72
        sergey72 18 June 2013 10: 55 New
        +9
        The quality of training has fallen dramatically. If earlier, when you were hired, the bison said: forget about what you were taught at the technical college, we will teach you how to work ... It was also understood that the newcomer had basic training and practice. Now, graduates to allow more or less independent work should be prepared for about a year, at best.
        1. beech
          beech 18 June 2013 13: 09 New
          +9
          as a graduate I’ll say this ... both the exam and the Soviet-style exams - everything is correct, everything is normal but:
          1) the administration bows the administration on the head and the administration encourages cheating. (Was a witness)
          2) it is not necessary to scold it, but those who posted the answers (EVERYONE had the answers)
          3) it is necessary to think over the system by which primary points are converted to secondary ones ... because now it is a FULL ASS !!!
          Conclusion: ehe would work if they survived a couple of years and were not allowed to write off if they overcame it. Now it is useless what to do.
          Another reason is that now you can’t get anywhere without higher education !! And not everyone is pulling higher education, here is another reason why there is a diploma, but no knowledge!
          This is my personal opinion, so please do not water with mud!
        2. albi77
          albi77 20 June 2013 12: 33 New
          +3
          So earlier they taught to think, and not to choose one answer out of four possible ...
          Moreover, often school tees in institute and later in life revealed themselves much more productively than medalists.
          1. cumastra1
            cumastra1 20 June 2013 15: 24 New
            +3
            That's it. Developed a creative personality. In addition, the exam - communication with stupid automation. A person must be evaluated by a person. The teacher then knows exactly what to expect from the student. Just do not remember the telephone right. It works perfectly with the exam. Only now (he saw) does the applicant write an application for admission to the pedagogical academy: pedagogical. Good girl. The correct assessment of the minobra. I didn’t even laugh.
            1. Misantrop
              Misantrop 20 June 2013 16: 29 New
              +1
              Quote: cumastra1
              USE - communication with stupid automation
              We also had a lot of offsets through automatic test systems. The main principle of the dealer - "a man made a car, he will fool her" laughing
      2. pribolt
        pribolt 18 June 2013 12: 16 New
        +4
        I apologize. Not in the subject, but I would like to see: https://secure.avaaz.org/en/stop_prism_global/?sDmfSeb
        1. ultra
          ultra 18 June 2013 14: 40 New
          +1
          Quote: pribolt
          https://secure.avaaz.org/ru/stop_prism_global/?sDmfSeb

          good good good hi
      3. GHG
        GHG 18 June 2013 15: 34 New
        +3
        He may be too smart. laughing It was more specific to set the task. With reverse, with step-by-step start by switching rheostats into the rotor circuit, well, or alternatively switching on from switching from a "star" to a "triangle." Or give it a chastotnik in a "newfangled" mode, let it program for a given operating mode (start, acceleration at predetermined intervals and stop using a brake rheostat) Let the young people who do not understand understand immediately that they should not waste their time and the employer. Or they would take on the second category, two months later they would see for themselves whether the person was fit. Theory without practice .. . gray and dull, especially if you do not know what knowledge will be needed to implement creativity. smile If he hasn’t kept anything for the last 6 years (pens, piles ... anyone) ... and there wasn’t any possibility, then it would certainly be a bit silly to expect a highly qualified specialist to come to you. This is my opinion wassat
        1. vjhbc
          vjhbc 18 June 2013 17: 27 New
          +4
          correctly, I had a practice teacher in a technical school, so he also gives a button starter and collect it, he doesn’t check, but says turn it on, burn everything, go off, and so on until it works
      4. _Forgiven_
        _Forgiven_ 18 June 2013 20: 21 New
        +6
        And to see such things and to hear once to spit. I recently received a specialist diploma (honestly, I studied at the correspondence), but only because my railway college gave me maximum knowledge, and working in a locomotive depot was a practice. I sat on the defense listening to people - this. Machinists, assistants to machinists and so on - the guys can’t even connect two words humanly. Some kind of inarticulate sounds, but they cannot answer questions from the head of the locomotive depot by profession. We do not have the Unified State Examination in Ukraine, the chip is a bit similar - independent testing. I didn’t have a chance to go to him, after 9th grade I went to the techie. As I read the questions in this testing - it's just tin. It seems that the questions were invented by the Americans. But recently, our Ministry of Education shocked me altogether - the works of Russian classics were removed from the school curriculum and put Harry Potter in their place. That's it ...
        1. Vasilenko Vladimir
          Vasilenko Vladimir 18 June 2013 20: 38 New
          +1
          Quote: _Forgiven_
          put in their place Harry Potter

          well it is extremely necessary
        2. viach
          viach 18 June 2013 21: 03 New
          +1
          Harry Potter? But this is natural! Ukraine is a country of romantics and science fiction. It is necessary to develop in time.
        3. 225chay
          225chay 18 June 2013 22: 54 New
          +1
          Quote: _Forgiven_
          the works of Russian classics were removed from the school curriculum and put in their place Harry Potter. That's it ...

          We have all the government now ... solid Harry Potter.
      5. PSih2097
        PSih2097 18 June 2013 21: 26 New
        +2
        Quote: Dimy4
        True true. An electrical engineer comes to work to get a job. I gave him the button starter and wire, assemble, I say the asynchronous start-up circuit. He did not succeed in the staff of electricians, I did not take him.

        if they cannot even collect it, then such a university must be in the trash ...
        1. Dimy4
          Dimy4 18 June 2013 22: 38 New
          0
          But the problem is not in the university itself, from there come out normal specialists. The point is in the attitude to studying in it and to the specialty that you have chosen. Then he later told me why I haven’t been going to work as a simple electrician all my life.
          1. Misantrop
            Misantrop 20 June 2013 16: 38 New
            0
            Quote: Dimy4
            Then he later told me why I haven’t been going to work as a simple electrician all my life.
            Those. from the first days he is going to only lead (to drive with his hands). In the furnace of such "experts"!
    2. Komodo
      Komodo 18 June 2013 09: 11 New
      +4
      Quote: domokl
      It is necessary to abandon this egalitarianism and return to the Soviet education system.

      It's not just about the exam,
      If before I was ashamed of myself for not reading a single book in a month, now it’s all the same. Although there is an Internet and finding anything is not difficult, no one reads, not only current graduates, but also past ones Soviet school. Scrabble, an encyclopedist, it used to mean nothing now. And our youth, as expected, is smarter than the previous generation.
      Only their goal, and everyone’s, is now the same - Business and how to become a millionaire. And the Schrödinger equations are "nafig need"
      1. domokl
        domokl 18 June 2013 09: 24 New
        +2
        You yourself answered your own opinion - before, the book was probably the only source of knowledge. Now young people are online, reading electronic books, watching screen versions. The flow of information is such that a person can’t afford to spend a ton of time on himself. I’ll tell you, I myself suffer from this. I buy audio books and listen in the car, on the road ... Notice, I do not read, but listen to books
        1. Sinbad
          Sinbad 18 June 2013 11: 35 New
          +7
          It is reading that develops the imagination, including spatial, so necessary in technical creativity. (Comics with pictures do not count).
          1. Misantrop
            Misantrop 20 June 2013 16: 40 New
            +1
            Quote: Sinbad
            It is reading that develops imagination, including spatial
            Not only. It also gives basic literacy. Also - not an extra baggage in our time winked
            1. Vasilenko Vladimir
              Vasilenko Vladimir 20 June 2013 17: 00 New
              0
              Quote: Misantrop
              It also gives basic literacy.

              unfortunately does not
              then how many books I’ve read in my life, I shouldn’t have made a single mistake even in my thoughts, but why, from the very first grade, spelling was the worst sin in school, even when there was time to double-check a hundred times it was poor, but it turned out quickly write no how
      2. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 18 June 2013 10: 44 New
        +7
        Quote: Komodo
        No one reads, not only current graduates, but also those who have passed the Soviet school.

        please speak only for myself
        Quote: Komodo
        .And our youth, as expected, is smarter than the previous generation.

        the truth does not know who Lenin is, for which they drowned mu-mu and what the Earth or the Sun revolves around
        1. RoadRunner
          RoadRunner 18 June 2013 13: 52 New
          0
          the truth does not know who Lenin is, for which they drowned mu-mu and what the Earth or the Sun revolves around

          Do not exaggerate.
          They know what is spinning, and who is drowning - and even who Lenin is (yes).
          It’s not their fault that they didn’t teach “who Lenin is” like you — you probably didn’t get this knowledge in 4-6 lessons in two weeks a year.
          And now, for young people, besides Lenin, there is still a lot of interesting things, we don’t live behind the curtain after all.
          1. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 18 June 2013 14: 31 New
            +3
            Do not exaggerate

            underestimate (for the sake of interest, see the movie "crowned individuals")
            And now for young people besides Lenin there is still a lot of interesting things, not behind the curtain we still live
            this statement of the question is the most dangerous, Lenin is not interested, much more interesting is the personal life of which thread of the asterisk
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                Vasilenko Vladimir 18 June 2013 15: 30 New
                +1
                Quote: RoadRunner
                And the guy sleeping with a little volume of Lenin in his arms, grumbling like a grandfather under his breath about how "earlier for such ..." simply fades against her background

                they wrote nonsense, it makes no sense to comment
          2. Misantrop
            Misantrop 20 June 2013 16: 42 New
            0
            Quote: RoadRunner
            They know what is spinning, and who is drowning - and even who Lenin is (yes).

            Yeah. “I read 2 books,“ Anna Karenina ”and“ Mu-mu ”, but still I’m confused in which one Gerasim threw his dog under the engine ...” (c) laughing
      3. Starina_hank
        Starina_hank 18 June 2013 17: 29 New
        +2
        It’s a very dubious statement on the rationality of modern youth, and it’s not her fault, neither knowledge nor experience is financially stimulated. Without connections (better than kindred) or dating, there’s no way to get there! But if there were a good person, there would be a place. This is concrete situation on
        factory.
        There is no need and no trained specialists.
      4. matross
        matross 18 June 2013 19: 55 New
        +1
        Quote: Komodo
        I used to be ashamed of myself for not having read a single book in a month, now it’s all the same.

        If you haven’t read books for a month before, now it’s all the same to you! Sorry, I don’t want to offend you, but to write such things about myself, isn’t it humiliating for you? Well, they would be silent
        Quote: Komodo
        our youth, as expected, is smarter than the previous generation.

        I don’t know how old you are, but let me disagree with you. They are better versed in modern gadgets - yes, they are trying to pretend that they speak English better - yes ... for about 10 minutes 15 tried to give birth to another yes and did not come up with anything. So I suggest not to rush with generalizations of personal experience! hi
        1. Vasilenko Vladimir
          Vasilenko Vladimir 18 June 2013 20: 25 New
          0
          Quote: matRoss
          Better versed in modern gadgets - yes

          can argue with this statement
          1. matross
            matross 18 June 2013 20: 37 New
            +1
            Perhaps you are right. We also delete this! smile
        2. PSih2097
          PSih2097 18 June 2013 21: 30 New
          +4
          Quote: matRoss
          Better versed in modern gadgets - yes,

          I have a grandfather PHOoshnik, he is 80 years old, figured out a laptop in a day, 30 minutes with a tablet, moreover, out of love for two things: preference and chess ...
    3. avt
      avt 18 June 2013 10: 48 New
      +9
      Quote: domokl
      It is necessary to abandon this egalitarianism and return to the Soviet education system.

      Impossible. request The Soviet system provided, ... such an amount of knowledge that every cook knows and could manage the state ... "Now Fursenko is preparing consumers, this is firstly. Secondly, yes, the university education was based in large cities of the USSR, the lion's share in Moscow, St. Petersburg, but the graduates were DISTRIBUTED according to the needs of the national economy, yes, there were “thieves,” but they did not spoil the general picture and free diplomas were miserable. Well, after working for two years in the “places” many took root and Yes, and enterprises selected students, at least from us, already from the 4th year. By the way ,, Boeing "in the MAI in the 90s did the same, then they made it easier, without bothering with the move, they opened a branch in Moscow. The same they also prepare kidalovo in Skolkovo, but naturally we drank a dumb budget at a construction site, a customs terminal and white-London lectures of a relative of the communist Bonza Ponomarev.
    4. kris
      kris 18 June 2013 11: 00 New
      +13
      Well, just like children.
      This is the purposeful collapse of the Soviet education system.
      The same as with health care and the army, energy, etc.
      Yes, and they are trying to "reform" science.
      The scheme is one - there are more slogans about caring for people, "teleheads" drive the need for it, fall apart, and then appoint a "scapegoat" who is scolded and ... transferred to another good job.
      Vivid examples are Chubais, Golikova, Fursenko, Serdyukov, etc.
      And people are systematically driven into their heads that: "The country is rising from its knees. Russia is again a superpower. And other tales."
      Our forum is not without this propaganda.
      Enthusiastic screams about the procurement and construction of military equipment.
      But they serve strange. New equipment is added with the repaired, planes and helicopters are considered together. Like ships. They will build one corvette and five boats, and write proudly "the fleet will receive five ships."
      And not a word that technicians will write off much more than they will receive.
      And for those who are very near, they throw up topics about swampy homosexuals!
      I must admit that there are changes under Putin: "Propaganda has become an order of magnitude better."
      But was this what his supporters wanted?
      1. Dilshat
        Dilshat 19 June 2013 09: 27 New
        +1
        Now a new movement, the Popular Front, is being created to replace the compromised food industry. And they call themselves front-line soldiers! For me, war veterans of the Great Patriotic War and no one else.
      2. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 19 June 2013 10: 34 New
        0
        Quote: kris
        And for those who are not far away they throw up topics about swampy homosexuals! I must admit that there are changes under Putin: "Propaganda has become an order of magnitude better."

        and then there are no homosexuals in the swamp?
        propaganda with GDP is worthless by the way, many achievements are simply not voiced, although the journalist more or less learned to keep in check
    5. Army1
      Army1 18 June 2013 11: 31 New
      +3
      Ege, like nonsense that came to the mind of an idiot. A dvuhchnik write off will go to college, a good guy decides for 3, and this is possible, suddenly at the computer that checks the work is in a bad mood .... and a la, You're in the Army Now.
    6. ultra
      ultra 18 June 2013 14: 25 New
      0
      Quote: domokl
      The Unified State Examination system was initially built as vicious.

      I fundamentally disagree! The point is not in the Unified State Examination, but in the fact that by its results you can go to a university without exams, because of this abuse starts (the rate is too high)! The Soviet system also allowed the possibility of unfair exams, but they did not play such a key role as now, all the same, it was necessary to take admission to the university, and there were more than enough abuses when entering university. hi
      1. Starina_hank
        Starina_hank 18 June 2013 17: 33 New
        +1
        I agree, we wanted the best, but it turned out as always!
        1. Dilshat
          Dilshat 19 June 2013 09: 29 New
          0
          The ege experiment failed, which means the experiment must be closed.
    7. aviator_IAS
      aviator_IAS 18 June 2013 14: 35 New
      +5
      Yes, the matter is no longer in the exam. People in the country have changed a lot. It used to be wild to even think that parents set up their children to cheat on an exam. Nothing was heard of bribes either. I suspect that probably somewhere there were “thieves” students, but this was a rarity. Even if they wrote off, they never flaunted it. This was not welcome, to say the least. Man is even more than a school, educated by society. And now the guidelines have changed a lot. The main thing is to break through yourself, spitting on everyone, at any cost. Parents of even that old, Soviet-style quenching try to use all connections, acquaintances and money, if only the child put points higher. From the TV every minute they talk about theft and cheating, giving the installation that everyone and everywhere are doing it. And you, writing off the exam, are already not like a "white crow", but like everyone else. This hype around the exam also discourages all motivation. Everyone is cheating, and at least you won’t get 100 points out of your skin. Even if the Soviet system is returned now, then with the modern technical capabilities, it will be the same as now. People are already different. Both teachers and officials from education and schoolchildren. In Soviet times, one could also call, for example, Khabarovsk before composing, find out what topics will be and put several options in one’s pocket. But no one did that. Although I myself always wrote virtuoso spurs (very finely), I never used them. It’s just that a peculiar microspect contained all the “salt” from the textbook, and this was very useful for organizing thoughts.
      Who needs the exam now? First of all, to officials. Now, in general, 90% of laws are written for officials, so that it would be easier for them to live and not lose their chair. How many magazines of briefings, instructions and checks were introduced at our enterprise. Everything is signed formally. Any commission arrives - piles of paper are shown and everything is OK. And after all this system works. Recently at work there was an accident, 3 people died! The chief of the site and the TB engineer were only deprived of the bonus for a month. They covered themselves with pieces of paper.
      1. beech
        beech 18 June 2013 15: 04 New
        +2
        I fully agree with you dear aviator_IAS. I’ll only add from myself that now is the time of enterprising people ... now knowledge does not play a special role, now the main thing is to turn around. It's time to return entrance exams at uni!
        1. Dilshat
          Dilshat 19 June 2013 09: 33 New
          0
          time criminally adventurous. Enterprising time will be later.
      2. Starina_hank
        Starina_hank 18 June 2013 17: 46 New
        +3
        Naive Chukchi boys !! There cannot be a good piece in a rotting carcass! If the whole country is stuck in corruption, and money received by ANY way is considered the peak of success, then what you want from the education system, money does not smell! With such a state system, it will only get worse.
    8. krasin
      krasin 18 June 2013 16: 39 New
      +1
      But if the Unified State Exam, which does not respond to the realities of life and to the social needs of the Unified State Examination, means that someone needs it ...

      Medvedev introduced, that means he needs consumers and stupid people! Or maybe send him to the USE zone, let him live there, indulge in an iPhone.
      1. Dilshat
        Dilshat 19 June 2013 09: 39 New
        0
        I don’t understand how a person who over the four years of his rule did not do a single useful thing and handed over Libya remains in power with his fellow pests in power and occupies the second most important position (if not the first)? !!!
    9. psdf
      psdf 18 June 2013 19: 56 New
      +2
      Quote: domokl
      And engineers come to production who do not distinguish a bolt from a screw. To raise the industry? And with whom? With diplomas? So I need a specialist, not a diploma.

      This is no longer an exam - it is the result of a broken training system in the mid-90s at universities, the introduction of all sorts of bachelors and other steps to profane high school.
    10. 225chay
      225chay 18 June 2013 22: 44 New
      +2
      Quote: domokl
      return to the Soviet education system.

      Absolutely agree! +++++++++++
      Under the Soviet system, teachers were interested in keeping as few lags as possible.
      I remember how after lying back in the hospital for a month and a half, naturally I was behind, the head teacher of the school! (he taught mathematics and physics) after class sat with me until I recovered. I was very pleased. Now the teacher will tear the subject away without being very puzzled so that the children can understand the lesson and go to earn money. Of course, teachers will now sing songs that are decent and grandmothers do not take.
      I would tear off the heads of those creatures who destroyed the USSR
      About the Unified State Examination in general is silent- vomit and obduralovka
    11. 755962
      755962 19 June 2013 10: 33 New
      +3
      High school exam in the Chinese city of Wuhan.
    12. boris117
      boris117 15 June 2014 18: 10 New
      0
      I have no doubt that the Soviet education system is wonderful. And the exams are necessary for those that were. I worked in high school for 40 years. I know the system both Soviet and prevailing. The Soviet system operated while the level of decency of teachers remained high. Under Brezhnev, everything swam. On exams they could put 5 to a dvoechnik and ud. excellent student. And now, when everything is sold, this system does not work at all. USE is some kind of salvation. Until we educate the teacher as a person of the highest honor and dignity, the exam will have to be left as admission to exams. Dramatically tighten the rules so that it would not be possible to write off. After the exam, you can be allowed to take normal exams. Illiterate reformers run the school. Now introduced the baclava. This generally destroyed high school. We do not need so many people with higher education. Moreover, 80 percent, in principle, cannot get it. 80 percent must complete college. The remaining 20 percent, as many studied at universities in the USSR, should receive full higher education. And what is happening with the programs? !!. Quiet horror. The concept of methodology, presentation logic, and the order of reading courses are completely absent. At the university level, the administration shortens and trims courses. For example, two semesters were read, squeezed into one, for the sake of saving hours on the standings, and therefore increasing the salary of the administration.
  2. fenix57
    fenix57 18 June 2013 08: 38 New
    +7
    Probably like this: the exam is a reflection of the modern educational system, a system that does not exist .. requestReturning the Soviet system is what needs to be done. There is no need to make "changes" to the USE, to the "basket" and forget.
    1. Truffoff
      Truffoff 18 June 2013 09: 20 New
      -9
      Quote: fenix57
      Returning the Soviet system is what needs to be done

      In our school it was like this: An exam, excellent students on the first desks solve problems, and pass it on to the teacher, he looks, corrects mistakes, gives them back, and the excellent students forward solutions to those sitting behind. The teacher is in the classroom.
      This is also a Soviet education. You can’t return it. There will be a bunch of excellent students who don’t know a bribe.
      1. Hudo
        Hudo 18 June 2013 09: 54 New
        +16
        Quote: Truffoff
        In our school it was like this: An exam, excellent students on the first desks solve problems, and pass it on to the teacher, he looks, corrects mistakes, gives them back, and the excellent students forward solutions to those sitting behind. The teacher is in the classroom.


        Do not generalize. How many such schools were like yours with mass cheating on exams? Misery in total. And the level of knowledge of the Soviet threesome is much higher than the "knowledge" of most of the current "excellent students".
        1. Truffoff
          Truffoff 18 June 2013 10: 14 New
          -9
          Quote: Hudo
          How many such schools were like yours with mass cheating on exams?

          Today, if there were no USE, I would have made an excellent student from any D-grade.
          I would make an exemplary from any school, with some excellent students. The whole question is how much money I would need for this.
          I wouldn’t have money, I would have shoved anyone I needed. In no case can not cancel the exam, we will wash teachers to plant bribes.
          And it was in a village in Siberia. If the exam passed badly, the teachers would have received the first number. So it was in their interests.
          1. Hudo
            Hudo 18 June 2013 10: 38 New
            +4
            Quote: Truffoff

            Today, if there were no USE, I would have made an excellent student from any D-grade.


            If on a cage with a donkey, you will see the inscription "LION" - do not believe your eyes. K. Prutkov.
          2. Airman
            Airman 18 June 2013 11: 00 New
            +3
            Quote: Truffoff
            Quote: Hudo
            How many such schools were like yours with mass cheating on exams?

            Today, if there were no USE, I would have made an excellent student from any D-grade.
            I would make an exemplary from any school, with some excellent students. The whole question is how much money I would need for this.
            I wouldn’t have money, I would have shoved anyone I needed. In no case can not cancel the exam, we will wash teachers to plant bribes.
            And it was in a village in Siberia. If the exam passed badly, the teachers would have received the first number. So it was in their interests.


            Means you underestimates TEACHED the same DEFAULT.
          3. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 18 June 2013 13: 18 New
            +3
            Quote: Truffoff
            Today, if there were no USE, I would have made an excellent student from any D-grade.

            this is exactly what they do today under the exam
        2. Sinbad
          Sinbad 18 June 2013 11: 41 New
          +4
          I completely agree. An example, a brother teaches at the university, complained: a third year comes, and some do not know how to divide, the multiplication table is difficult.
          1. aviamed90
            aviamed90 18 June 2013 11: 53 New
            +12
            And here is another example of the final exam product:

            My daughter has a friend who does not understand the hands on the clock. Well, she sees the arrows, but she cannot say how much time! It is used only electronic with digits. She is 23 years old.

            Impressive?
            1. Dmitry_2013
              Dmitry_2013 18 June 2013 12: 00 New
              +7
              And I met students at the university
              who do not know elementary Roman numerals! And such students are successfully learning!
            2. Vasilenko Vladimir
              Vasilenko Vladimir 18 June 2013 13: 20 New
              +4
              Quote: aviamed90
              Impressive?

              terrifying
      2. Airman
        Airman 18 June 2013 09: 59 New
        +5
        Quote: Truffoff
        Quote: fenix57
        Returning the Soviet system is what needs to be done

        In our school it was like this: An exam, excellent students on the first desks solve problems, and pass it on to the teacher, he looks, corrects mistakes, gives them back, and the excellent students forward solutions to those sitting behind. The teacher is in the classroom.
        This is also a Soviet education. You can’t return it. There will be a bunch of excellent students who don’t know a bribe.


        And what was this school? The excellent students on the control helped the laggards, but the teachers didn’t help anyone on the state exams, maybe 3 and pulled. But three-year-olds did not enter institutes; they went to vocational schools.
        1. Truffoff
          Truffoff 18 June 2013 10: 34 New
          +1
          Quote: Povshnik
          but teachers didn’t help anyone at the state exams, maybe 3 and pulled

          And now, teachers probably decide in USE schools. And from this, high results in the Caucasus.
          Or instead of students, someone else comes to exams.
          All of us were students. How many exams did you have? WE ARE LIVING IN RUSSIA. Surely an antidote has already been invented for the exam. Surely not one.
          1. Dmitry_2013
            Dmitry_2013 18 June 2013 11: 12 New
            0
            Not one was not! He taught and passed.
            PS They don’t judge by themselves, these as well as those applied to me wink
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. Dmitry_2013
                Dmitry_2013 18 June 2013 11: 27 New
                +2
                Well, we have just because of such and problems.
                And then they start shouting, we have a lot of economists and lawyers, but in reality there are only a few! The rest spent 5 years sitting and writing down, having not achieved anything in these 5 years. And the state paid money for them.
                And just in society, shaking at the university is considered the norm, and not normal work. So who is to blame for this, if not ourselves?
            2. Truffoff
              Truffoff 18 June 2013 11: 21 New
              -6
              Quote: Dmitry_2013
              Not one was not! He taught and passed.
              PS They don’t judge by themselves, these as well as those applied to me

              Nerds are everywhere. The bulk studies only during the week before
              exam.
              1. Dmitry_2013
                Dmitry_2013 18 June 2013 11: 30 New
                +2
                This bulk is becoming the ballast of the Russian economy. It’s necessary to drive such people, not pull them, then there will be less problems in the country.!
                1. Truffoff
                  Truffoff 18 June 2013 11: 37 New
                  -4
                  Quote: Dmitry_2013
                  It’s necessary to drive such people, not pull them, then there will be less problems in the country.!

                  If you drive such people then the population will be 70% less.
                  1. Dmitry_2013
                    Dmitry_2013 18 June 2013 11: 42 New
                    +7
                    So do you think it is necessary to help reduce the level of education in universities?
                    Or will the people begin to die out after they are kicked out of the 1st course?
                    And so, most managers, economists and lawyers go to the market to sell slippers. And due to the fact that all 5 years they studied barely because mom and dad forced, and thought that fools, let them study, wouldn’t take them to work. But it turns out the opposite.
                    1. Truffoff
                      Truffoff 18 June 2013 11: 50 New
                      0
                      I just thought that you were driving their countries out. recourse
                      And if 70% of students are expelled from the university, then the rector is covered.
                      1. Dmitry_2013
                        Dmitry_2013 18 June 2013 11: 59 New
                        +2
                        70 is not necessary. As the lobsters understand, they will really drive out, they will decide for themselves, or to study normally, or to leave.
                        And applicants will draw the appropriate conclusions. How many times have I heard a conversation between an applicant and a student:
                        Applicant: how is it generally difficult to study at a university? And then I skipped physics at school, can I?
                        Student: you can. From session to session, students live fun! And there you decide somehow. All the same, they will not expel people like you!
                2. Starina_hank
                  Starina_hank 18 June 2013 17: 51 New
                  0
                  But what about the money for the exam, credit, coursework, etc. etc. ....
              2. Dmitry_2013
                Dmitry_2013 18 June 2013 11: 45 New
                +3
                My father graduates engineers come to my factory. And they don’t know that such a sine and cosine !!!!!!! Here is the result of the current education both at school and at the university.
                And then they say we need engineers. Of course we need, but not like that!
                1. Truffoff
                  Truffoff 18 June 2013 12: 00 New
                  0
                  Quote: Dmitry_2013
                  to father come to the factory

                  "To factory. If you are an excellent student, studied at school and at a university, such a mistake is unforgivable for you. I hope it was random. If not, then definitely - MPC education.
                  1. Dmitry_2013
                    Dmitry_2013 18 June 2013 12: 04 New
                    +1
                    I was good at school. And at the university classes in the Russian language are not enough. Yes, and in a hurry, lunch ends.
                    1. Truffoff
                      Truffoff 18 June 2013 12: 25 New
                      +6
                      Quote: Dmitry_2013
                      I was good at school. And at the university classes in the Russian language are not enough. Yes, and in a hurry, lunch ends.

                      And I'm the eternal threesome. In the Union. In a remote Siberian village. But so far, having written something, I have re-read it twice in search of an error, already unconsciously. They have beaten. Who is there for the formation of the MPC?
                      Join.
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                      2. The comment was deleted.
                  2. Hudo
                    Hudo 18 June 2013 12: 05 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Truffoff
                    "To factory.


                    Oilmen stress the word differently oil, and say, for example oil production. All factory workers say to the factory, to the factory etc. this is a kind of professional slang.
                    1. Starina_hank
                      Starina_hank 18 June 2013 17: 54 New
                      0
                      I have never heard!
                      1. Hudo
                        Hudo 18 June 2013 20: 45 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Starina_Hank
                        I have never heard!


                        Have you ever seen the plant, even from afar?
              3. Vasilenko Vladimir
                Vasilenko Vladimir 18 June 2013 13: 23 New
                0
                you don’t need to write stupidity and generally go boy teach lessons, otherwise parents will soon push their ears back
            3. Truffoff
              Truffoff 18 June 2013 12: 05 New
              +1
              Quote: Dmitry_2013
              Not one was not!

              "None" was not. Dear excellent student, the second spelling mistake
              in the posts of this topic.
              1. Dmitry_2013
                Dmitry_2013 18 June 2013 12: 09 New
                -2
                Have you decided to improve my literacy rate? Dictation do not offer to write?
                PS At school I was good-looking, and at the institute, unfortunately, they do not pay much attention to the Russian language, if not philology.
                1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                  Vasilenko Vladimir 18 June 2013 13: 24 New
                  0
                  what did you finish?
                  1. Dmitry_2013
                    Dmitry_2013 18 June 2013 14: 47 New
                    -1
                    school-gymnasium and technical university, but majoring in organization management.
                    The Russian language was only in the first year, and passed as a test.
                    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                      Vasilenko Vladimir 18 June 2013 15: 32 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Dmitry_2013
                      but majoring in organization management.

                      NO SUCH SPECIALTY, NOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                      1. Dmitry_2013
                        Dmitry_2013 18 June 2013 15: 36 New
                        -3
                        Yes?! A state-issued diploma is not considered? And a university that has passed state accreditation?
                      2. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 18 June 2013 16: 12 New
                        +5
                        Yes, at least 10 diplomas, this is what the article is about
                        manage - manage, supervise, dispose of
                        end er in English means an action, respectively manager - supervisor manager.
                        IT IS NOT SPECIALTY IT IS A MUST.
                        one fool like one hour proved to me that she has a specialty elder honey sister, your specialty from the same series.
                        The leader in which industry you were trained in, the light industry of mechanical engineering, maybe in medicine, or in transport? !!!!
                      3. Dmitry_2013
                        Dmitry_2013 18 June 2013 16: 17 New
                        -4
                        just prepared as a leader. Or do we also have engineers trained by industry? What about the mechanics? Or do you think this is impossible? For example, now I’m directly the project manager at the enterprise. And my employer is quite satisfied with my diploma and specialty.
                      4. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 18 June 2013 16: 21 New
                        +6
                        Quote: Dmitry_2013
                        Or do we also have engineers trained by industry? What about the mechanics?

                        your mother !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                        You will be surprised, but yes, it’s by industry
                        God, in what hole did you get the diploma? !!!!
                        Quote: Dmitry_2013
                        For example, now I’m directly the project manager at the enterprise

                        project manager in light industry will NEVER be able to manage a project in medicine
                        Dima, for the sake of all saints do not disgrace further
                      5. Dmitry_2013
                        Dmitry_2013 18 June 2013 16: 25 New
                        -5
                        And I do not disgrace, I express my opinion. And unlike you, without insults.
                    2. baltika-18
                      baltika-18 18 June 2013 17: 31 New
                      +3
                      Quote: Dmitry_2013
                      just prepared as a leader. Or do we also have engineers trained by industry? What about the mechanics?

                      They cooked in Soviet times, and now they are probably cooking in normal universities. I have the Ivanovo Institute of Chemical Technology, specialty 0516, MAHP, qualification mechanical engineer.
                      Sorry, but as I understand it, you graduated from a commercial university, something like SZAGS, if you were just being prepared as a leader.
                    3. Dmitry_2013
                      Dmitry_2013 18 June 2013 18: 19 New
                      -1
                      On a commercial basis, presidential scholarships do not pay, for your information.
                    4. Dmitry_2013
                      Dmitry_2013 18 June 2013 19: 37 New
                      0
                      I hope about the university clarified. winked
                    5. Vasilenko Vladimir
                      Vasilenko Vladimir 18 June 2013 19: 40 New
                      0
                      so all the same, what did you finish, the name of the technical university is somehow vague
                    6. Dmitry_2013
                      Dmitry_2013 18 June 2013 22: 04 New
                      0
                      I wrote in a personal email to everyone. I will write to you again.
                    7. Vasilenko Vladimir
                      Vasilenko Vladimir 18 June 2013 22: 31 New
                      0
                      and what in PM ?!
                      Well, since such a booze has gone, the country should know its heroes in person
                    8. Dmitry_2013
                      Dmitry_2013 19 June 2013 10: 31 New
                      -1
                      To exclude the measure by universities, as it turned out with specialties.
                      I wrote about the attitude of students to the learning process itself, and in the end it all came down to a discussion of my university, my specialty and my person as a whole.
                      I believe that this is not what. I was not afraid to write my point of view, while honestly clarifying on YOUR request that I had finished.
                      And as you noticed, many, not quite adequate comrades, without knowing me, or having visited either my city or university, already make diagnoses and draw conclusions.
                  2. Vasilenko Vladimir
                    Vasilenko Vladimir 18 June 2013 22: 41 New
                    +1
                    I'm sorry, but when an ordinary technological institute is called an academy, this is suspicious in itself
                  3. Dmitry_2013
                    Dmitry_2013 19 June 2013 08: 03 New
                    -2
                    They do not call him names, but they call him, and there are reasons for this. If you are interested, you will find.
                  4. Vasilenko Vladimir
                    Vasilenko Vladimir 19 June 2013 09: 23 New
                    +1
                    Of course there is, the status is changing, funding is correspondingly attracting
                  5. Dmitry_2013
                    Dmitry_2013 19 June 2013 09: 35 New
                    -1
                    Well, that means there are explanations for everything. And the state will not just finance it. By the way, if you notice, there is also a military department.
                  6. Vasilenko Vladimir
                    Vasilenko Vladimir 19 June 2013 10: 39 New
                    0
                    Quote: Dmitry_2013
                    And the state will not just finance it.

                    you know, I’m a rather cynical adult, so I don’t need to tell me about “just don’t finance”, I participated in a fairly large number of government programs, including as a consultant
                  7. Dmitry_2013
                    Dmitry_2013 19 June 2013 10: 49 New
                    0
                    Well, specialists graduate, including FOR THE LEADING DEFENSE ENTERPRISE OF RUSSIA. Isn't that the result? For example, Rogozin plans to create a robotics center on the basis of, so I will tell you that this is not casual. The team of programmers just from our university showed good results in the country, including last traveled to Japan.
                    So in your state does not need to finance and develop it?
                  8. Vasilenko Vladimir
                    Vasilenko Vladimir 19 June 2013 10: 52 New
                    0
                    I assumed something in this spirit, the institute was formed at the factory, and everything else, including the "mendezhra", is from the evil one
                  9. Dmitry_2013
                    Dmitry_2013 19 June 2013 10: 55 New
                    -2
                    Well, managers also work at the factory) and not only on this.
                    Then, in your opinion, why do people go to study in this specialty, if as you say it is from the evil one?
                  10. Vasilenko Vladimir
                    Vasilenko Vladimir 19 June 2013 11: 01 New
                    +1
                    The manager is the leader. It is clear that at any enterprise there are managers of various levels, only once again for the manager, this is not a specialty.
  3. Starina_hank
    Starina_hank 18 June 2013 18: 06 New
    +2
    In our factory, the next generation also puts their relatives in such positions. Three-four pieces, neither products, nor results.
    Two woodpeckers invented the production of ball valves for a year. One manager-technologist, another project manager. We mastered the money, but no production (5 years have passed)!
  4. Dmitry_2013
    Dmitry_2013 18 June 2013 16: 38 New
    0
    a narrower area is finance. Accordingly, the diploma was written with this bias.
  5. Ruslan67
    Ruslan67 18 June 2013 19: 57 New
    +3
    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
    The leader in which industry you were trained,

    In the fence or pasta purge wassat
  6. Dmitry_2013
    Dmitry_2013 18 June 2013 15: 44 New
    +1
    http://www.edu.ru/db/cgi-bin/portal/spe/okso_10.plx?substr=%EC%E5%ED%E5%E4%E6%EC
    % E5% ED% F2 & qual = 0
    080507 organization management code
    check out wink
  7. Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 18 June 2013 16: 13 New
    +3
    at least a hundred emoticons, like a stump do not dress up with a Christmas tree will not be
  8. Dmitry_2013
    Dmitry_2013 18 June 2013 16: 32 New
    -1
    Can you tell about your successes? And then all condemn me, but not a word about yourself?
  9. Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 18 June 2013 16: 44 New
    0
    what to tell ?!
  10. Dmitry_2013
    Dmitry_2013 18 June 2013 16: 50 New
    0
    Your education, who you work with. Government awards and orders wink
  11. Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 18 June 2013 17: 00 New
    +4
    Fizfak KazGU
    After he created his own company, he was engaged in advertising and printing, 5 years ago he moved to Russia, I breed goats and sheep, I do not have government awards.
    I can work in almost any specialty in offset printing, I can work as a mechanic for adjusting sewing equipment, well, I can still trade, since I did this with grade 9, I got a work book at the age of 14
  12. Dmitry_2013
    Dmitry_2013 18 June 2013 17: 03 New
    0
    Well, according to the description of an intelligent person, why offend?
    Especially my mom.
    your mother !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  13. Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 18 June 2013 17: 05 New
    +2
    Well, firstly, YOUR MOM has not been offended by anyone, you don’t need to fool around
  14. matross
    matross 18 June 2013 20: 21 New
    +2
    Everything! We all PPC. People who graduated from a commercial university with a degree in management begin to be seriously proud of their education. You can cancel the exam and any exams, let everyone go at least to the managers, even to astronomers as in vocational schools. Too late. Norway - wait for us, we will be soon!
  15. Dmitry_2013
    Dmitry_2013 18 June 2013 22: 09 New
    -4
    Do you mean me? Have you seen my diploma?
    We’re sure to have a lid, if pizdabol people like you start to write something, and not think
  16. matross
    matross 19 June 2013 14: 00 New
    -1
    Quote: Dmitry_2013
    Have you seen my diploma?

    This is not necessary at all. Just read the previous post. Incoherent hysterical babble. Drink valerian, young man.
  17. aviamed90
    aviamed90 18 June 2013 16: 31 New
    0
    Vasilenko Vladimir

    I don’t understand what kind of profession this is.

    But you will be surprised - this is what they write in a diploma!
  18. Dmitry_2013
    Dmitry_2013 18 June 2013 16: 35 New
    -3
    So in general, there, and narrow specialization is assumed. For example, I have finances.
  19. Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 18 June 2013 16: 45 New
    +6
    Yes, I’m just not surprised anymore, it’s just that my hair stands on end, it’s scared to be treated, it’s scary to study, you call a specialist to do something and you understand what you need to do yourself, or it will either explode or burn.
  • Armata
    Armata 18 June 2013 15: 42 New
    +4
    Quote: Dmitry_2013
    school-gymnasium and technical university, but majoring in organization management.
    The Russian language was only in the first year, and passed as a test.
    I goof, those university graduated to manager. Can you still manage techies? laughing The future of Russia, damn it.
    1. Dmitry_2013
      Dmitry_2013 18 June 2013 15: 47 New
      -4
      First you receive a scholarship from the President of the Russian Federation, and then laugh. And another 3 place at the ALL-RUSSIAN Olympiad in Management Specialties: Loans. Good?
      Or do you position yourself as the future of Russia?
    2. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 18 June 2013 16: 15 New
      +4
      Quote: Dmitry_2013
      First you receive a scholarship from the President of the Russian Federation

      the most filthy thing that they teach is not clear to whom, so they also pay a step for it
    3. Dmitry_2013
      Dmitry_2013 18 June 2013 16: 19 New
      -2
      You imagine, and pay for it. Disgrace! laughing
    4. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 18 June 2013 16: 24 New
      +5
      we pay a lot of mediocrity, this is far from an indicator, and part of the managers also accrue bonuses for the collapse of the industry.
      I repeat once again, DO NOT POSTER
  • Starina_hank
    Starina_hank 18 June 2013 18: 10 New
    +2
    Young man, why don't you lead the Bolshoi Theater?
  • Armata
    Armata 19 June 2013 09: 08 New
    +3
    Quote: Dmitry_2013
    First you receive a scholarship from the President of the Russian Federation, and then laugh. And another 3 place at the ALL-RUSSIAN Olympiad in Management Specialties: Loans. Good?
    Or do you position yourself as the future of Russia?
    You first defend your candidate, and then work out 17 years in the defense industry. Well, then somehow after that you will teach seniors, manager damn it.
  • Dmitry_2013
    Dmitry_2013 19 June 2013 09: 28 New
    -2
    Well, everything is still to come. Life does not end with a diploma. The main thing is aspiration wink
    PS And I was not going to teach anyone, but if you consider yourself smarter, stronger, more correctly, higher, etc., then this is the right of everyone laughing
  • Armata
    Armata 19 June 2013 10: 24 New
    +2
    Quote: Dmitry_2013
    Well, everything is still to come. Life does not end with a diploma. The main thing is aspiration
    PS And I was not going to teach anyone, but if you consider yourself smarter, stronger, more correctly, higher, etc., then this is the right of everyone
    So in brief I’ll tell you. I finished UPI mat fur. Flood postgraduate school, then went to work in a defense research institute (where I work now), at the moment I am looking for guys there and transferring to the target. Only these are not managers and bachelors, but future engineers. So you can study as a manager, only a manager is a manager of a drop-in, and not a useful person.
  • Dmitry_2013
    Dmitry_2013 19 June 2013 10: 35 New
    -4
    So I graduated, and for 2 years I have been successfully working, and I have not experienced any problems with employment, since I already worked in the 5th year in my specialty, and my position included the word "manager" and the responsibilities involved management. And for your information, managers and bachelors are different categories, not to be confused.
    PS and my employer evaluates my usefulness
  • Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 19 June 2013 10: 45 New
    +1
    all the same, in what area do you work?
  • Dmitry_2013
    Dmitry_2013 19 June 2013 10: 50 New
    -2
    Project management at the enterprise. Projects on information security, automation of production. This is from the existing ones.
  • Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 19 June 2013 11: 03 New
    +1
    Apparently, I was right to say “from the evil one”, you even cannot really answer a simple question, WHERE DO YOU MANAGE PROJECTS ?!
  • Dmitry_2013
    Dmitry_2013 19 June 2013 11: 07 New
    0
    In the building company. What else interests you? Do you mean the industry - that is construction.
  • Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 19 June 2013 11: 13 New
    0
    mmmda
    how did you get there, like the institute is not specialized
  • Armata
    Armata 19 June 2013 11: 04 New
    +2
    Quote: Dmitry_2013
    Project management at the enterprise. Projects on information security, automation of production. This is from the existing ones.
    So for reference, I know the difference between a bachelor and a manager. And I also know the difference between safety systems and automated process control systems. As one smart man said. These are two absolutely polar opposites. So for a start decide what topic you are working on. laughing
  • Dmitry_2013
    Dmitry_2013 19 June 2013 11: 08 New
    -1
    Read PMBok and understand what I'm doing. The USSR did not teach this, so you are not familiar with this.
  • Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 19 June 2013 11: 14 New
    +2
    you’ll forgive the boy, but what you were taught in the Union you don’t know, and especially you don’t know how, snobbery
  • Dmitry_2013
    Dmitry_2013 19 June 2013 11: 58 New
    -1
    But what are you talking to me? If I do not know and can not. I consider further discussion pointless.
  • Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 19 June 2013 11: 10 New
    +1
    Quote: Mechanic
    So for a start decide what topic you are working on.

    man manager works, what you are not understanding
  • Armata
    Armata 19 June 2013 11: 51 New
    +2
    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
    man manager works, what you are not understanding
    Maybe I'm getting old, but because of the knowledge I have a question. Who does he manage? Manage people or cars, but that's to manage the project is news. laughing I am now the head of the design team for the development of new projects. That's just one thing I do not manage the project, I oversee people creating new projects.
  • Dmitry_2013
    Dmitry_2013 19 June 2013 11: 54 New
    -3
    I manage 2 programmers and 1 IT specialist. The question is closed.
  • Dmitry_2013
    Dmitry_2013 19 June 2013 11: 54 New
    -2
    Thank you for understanding. I will not spend more time on your questions.
  • Dmitry_2013
    Dmitry_2013 18 June 2013 15: 50 New
    -2
    What did you finish? MGIMO? Could it be Moscow State University?
  • Starina_hank
    Starina_hank 18 June 2013 18: 09 New
    -1
    Can lead even medicine, even the Ministry of Defense! Is it not clear?
  • Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 18 June 2013 16: 19 New
    0
    Quote: Dmitry_2013
    technical university

    which one
  • Starina_hank
    Starina_hank 18 June 2013 17: 56 New
    +1
    Like a surgeon-manager of a regional (regional) hospital!
  • Hudo
    Hudo 18 June 2013 10: 43 New
    +7
    Quote: Povshnik
    But three-year-olds did not enter institutes; they went to vocational schools.


    They walked, no doubt. It’s only worth adding that those three-year-olds, in whom the craving for knowledge woke up later, studied at vocational schools (the base, the knowledge of teachers allowed) and went to universities, after which they became very sensible engineering and technical staff.
    1. Sinbad
      Sinbad 18 June 2013 11: 44 New
      +4
      Correctly, and most importantly in the education system, was to teach a person to learn. And you can always find the necessary knowledge yourself, especially now.
  • Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 18 June 2013 10: 45 New
    +2
    Quote: Truffoff
    In our school it was like this: Exam, excellent students at first desks solve tasks

    it was an exception, and the rule was the best education in the world
  • Baron Wrangell
    Baron Wrangell 18 June 2013 08: 41 New
    +9
    Shame and disgrace to the Ministry of Education! They torn up all the good things that were, stupidly licked the system from the gizeypad, and kill the education system! I am for the abolition of the exam, I am for the good old exams.
    1. Airman
      Airman 18 June 2013 11: 07 New
      +2
      Quote: Baron Wrangell
      Shame and disgrace to the Ministry of Education! They torn up all the good things that were, stupidly licked the system from the gizeypad, and kill the education system! I am for the abolition of the exam, I am for the good old exams.


      But who is against it? Only those in power support those in power, they do not need a competent people. Deputy the minister was removed for the falsification of diplomas, and no one has yet answered for the "fake doctors of science".
      1. JonnyT
        JonnyT 18 June 2013 15: 29 New
        +4
        USE - ballast of the development of science in the Russian Federation. Unified State Examination - a method of growing stupid zombie hamsters who believe in fairy tales such as democracy and freedom. Unified State Exam never educates educated people.
        Doesn't it seem strange to you that in our country we are actively building a test system for testing knowledge, and in the UK they are switching to an imperial system like the one that was in the USSR ???

        And anyway, what is the difference in the exam? The Soviet system collapsed, the new one imposed by the United States and the West, vicious and unprofitable, not effective. It is necessary to build a new state system! Rewrite laws and constitution !!!
  • rereture
    rereture 18 June 2013 08: 46 New
    0
    Quote: domokl
    The Unified State Exam system was originally built as vicious. Equal rights for Muscovites and a guy from the Ural village were ensured? On admission, yes. Even the guy has more chances (I don’t know why the Caucasus and the regions give better


    For example, there are odds that multiply points. For example, in the Bryansk region there were many stobalniks in the Russian language (more than one year so), can not a Russian person write an ege for 100 points? I do not believe that out of about 7,5 thousand people, only 63 wrote for 100 points. As I read later in the news as there were a lot of them, it was decided to cut points.
    1. domokl
      domokl 18 June 2013 08: 58 New
      +3
      Quote: rereture
      I do not believe that out of approximately 7,5 thousand people, only 63 wrote on 100 points. As I read later in the news as there were a lot of them, it was decided to cut points.
      The question is not in the mind or in the dullness of students. The question is about equipping schools and the quality of teacher training. Traditionally, regions train specialists for themselves. Only a small part leaves.
      And the introduction of the Unified State Examination and the change in the entire education system, firstly, destroyed the class of teachers, turning them into teachers of subjects, and secondly, local universities lost the best graduates who leave to study (and then live) in the central regions, in Moscow, in St. Petersburg
      1. rereture
        rereture 18 June 2013 09: 03 New
        +1
        Studied at Mirny High School, Bryansk Oblast, Gordeevsky District. In each class, we have interactive whiteboards, a computer, or even two. In the computer science cabinet there are new computers with excellent characteristics. The chemistry cabinet has all the reagents, and the students work in mini laboratories. The only thing that was not equipped was the physics cabinet.
        1. domokl
          domokl 18 June 2013 09: 15 New
          +1
          Quote: rereture
          The only thing that was not equipped was the physics cabinet.

          I have something to compare too. I live in Siberia, but all the children stayed in Moscow. I moved. They graduated from the school there and shared their knowledge from time to time here .. Alas, I would not be offended (I studied here myself), but the teachers are here and there, as they say, a big difference ...
        2. JonnyT
          JonnyT 18 June 2013 17: 58 New
          +3
          He studied at Polyanskaya High School (Chernozemye). The school was falling apart, the plaster fell from the ceilings, the bricks fell out of the walls, one wing was completely closed. The computer was only in the computer science cabinet alone, there were no chemicals in chemistry, the gym was flooded.
          But despite this, everyone there received a good education. since we were taught according to the Soviet system. WE went to the Olympics, someone even engaged in scientific work and made presentations at conferences in local universities !!! Despite the emergency spotr, the gym teacher raised several Russian junior athletics champions !! And the ski team at the competitions of pre-conscripts among district schools has always won prizes, running on old wooden skis. Closer to summer, all senior boys went to military training, fired from weapons, lived a soldier's life. Everyone could do what they wanted as much as possible. Teachers participated in the education of the student’s personality. Shaped his moral character. Of course, the losers were pulled by three, but they always put knowledge into it !!!
          Teachers found talent from students and revealed each !!!

          Now everything has been repaired. Computers delivered, delivered reagents. Sometimes I talk with my teachers and they complain that the students now don’t want to study, they say that they don’t need it and they cannot be forced to learn, they shout about personal freedom and other nonsense !!! Most importantly, teachers can do nothing! With the exam, the situation is this. Teachers try to train the student for tests and, of course, use all the opportunities to get high scores (up to open help and cheating). Coach, not make you think and seek solutions. Do you feel the difference ???
          They do not participate in personality education right now (what can I say if in some schools students sleep with teachers!)

          Want to make a difference? Take tasks for entrance exams to universities for 89 year and for 2010 ..... the difference in complexity is huge!

          P.S. I am immensely glad that I was lucky to study on the remnants of the Soviet education system. It is because of this that I now have a good job. And I understand something in the world around me
          1. rereture
            rereture 18 June 2013 18: 13 New
            0
            No need to shift all responsibility for parenting to school. Well, what's the problem? Well, the students are sleeping with the teachers, what’s the matter, a girl / guy came after university to work at the age of 23-25 ​​years, and in the 11th grade students / pupils of 17-18 years old and this is personally their business and their parents. Many directors sleep with their subordinates, no one shouts about immorality. Take a look at the physics exam. The lack of ege is not in the level of complexity.
  • cartridge
    cartridge 18 June 2013 08: 51 New
    +12
    It is impossible to think of anything better than the old Soviet system of final and entrance exams!
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Starina_hank
      Starina_hank 18 June 2013 18: 15 New
      +1
      When the king had a good education system
      1. rereture
        rereture 18 June 2013 18: 22 New
        0
        I agree, let's revive parish schools wink , many great people came out of them, Joseph Stalin for example.
      2. Hudo
        Hudo 18 June 2013 20: 43 New
        +1
        Quote: Starina_Hank
        When the king had a good education system


        I am embarrassed to ask, what% with this good system from the Tsar-father are illiterate in the Russian Empire? The very ones whom under the Bolsheviks the pioneers were taught to read and write according to the Likbez program.
  • evgeni21
    evgeni21 18 June 2013 08: 54 New
    +3
    Who pulled this crap from America big grandmother cut down at the time. Shame and disgrace to the Ministry of Education! They torn up all the good things that were, stupidly licked the system from the gizeypad, and kill the education system! I am for the abolition of the exam, I am for the good old exams.
  • rereture
    rereture 18 June 2013 08: 54 New
    +1
    And a strange recount of points, for example, points in descending order: 100, 98, 95,92,90,87,84,82,79,76, XNUMX.
    At the same time, there are different numbers of primary points, for example, 58 primary = 84 and 57 primary = 84.
    That's it.
  • The gentleman
    The gentleman 18 June 2013 08: 57 New
    +2
    Gentlemen !!! "Well, finally, the class, if you can," etc. I used to always rejoice and hope that I would come to Russia, to some kind of university (in particular jurisprudence) and no one would give me tests, but they would really test my brains, and not that I had crammed days and nights. We have a test the system was introduced only upon admission to the university and it is clearly impossible to determine the level of knowledge of the applicant. now you have the same story. despite the fact that it starts from school. I understand that in the USA, before going to college, university, they pass exams at school, but they put it on the rails on which the composition is quietly moving (Ministry of Education). and this does not fit the USSR system. Our brains, ability to think, and come to the right conclusion have always been valued ....
    you can talk a lot, but it is necessary to solve the problem. how to solve it? and let the minobro go stupidly to simple schools, let them sit and invite ordinary teachers who have worked for at least 15-20 years at school, now they certainly know how to solve such problems
  • mogus
    mogus 18 June 2013 09: 02 New
    +5
    Examination - initially delirium. I studied and took exams and partially tested (the same questions of the exam). So on the exam it’s much easier to figure it out and you are preparing specifically. And on the exam with questions and possible answers - like a monkey with toys (a triangle in a triangular hole, a cube in a square ..) and how many incidents on the exam ...
    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 18 June 2013 13: 32 New
      +4
      Quote: mogus
      and how many incidents on the exam ...

      darkness, for the sake of interest, I looked at the options for history, it happens that there is not a single correct answer in the options.
      It is NOT possible to test a person’s ability to think, we have a boy in the proof of the Pythagorean theorem used SEVEN options, as it can assess the exam
  • Yura
    Yura 18 June 2013 09: 06 New
    +9
    USE - this is shame and shame! We need to return the world's best education system - the Soviet one!
  • bairat
    bairat 18 June 2013 09: 11 New
    +8
    My son received 252 points for three exams (Russian, mathematics, physics), I am proud of him). But there is always a but, for the last two years he has been dealing exclusively with these subjects, he has not even opened the rest of the textbooks. And the school encourages this, logs past grades and that's it. As a result, we have a one-sided education: history, geography, biology and others, there is no knowledge of them at all, emptiness.
    1. Wawan
      Wawan 18 June 2013 09: 18 New
      +2
      Congratulations! Your son has excellent chances to enroll in almost any technical university (unless the fake stoballics who go out of competition)
  • Wawan
    Wawan 18 June 2013 09: 11 New
    +3
    I allow myself to disagree with the fact that the exam is not needed. Let's figure out why they are cheating with surrender? In order to enter a university at a budget (free) place. If you cancel the exam and enter the entrance exams at the university, then corruption on admission will increase compared to the current one. You can enter a paid place in a university with minimal scores on the exam. And, as a rule, those who are already financially able to train their child for a fee (officials, etc.) are cheating. You just need to cancel the benefits on admission (100 ballers, prize-winners of the olympiads), cancel paid tuition at the university.
    1. Strashila
      Strashila 18 June 2013 09: 34 New
      +6
      With the winners of the olympiads, you clearly got excited that I would cancel 100% of the 100 balmics, and in Soviet times the name was a certificate with 5 points, it took me to pass one exam to choose from. But the main thing is not this, to do this one thing, now it’s learning something completely different ... and it’s not the fact that 100 students will pass the first session. The student requires the development of a scent and a ponder, which the USE successfully buried in adolescence.
      1. Wawan
        Wawan 18 June 2013 09: 42 New
        +2
        Maybe I really got excited with the winners, but I consider it impossible to return to the entrance exams in the current situation because of possible corruption in the admissions committees. The exam in its current form is not ideal, it is necessary to urgently change something.
    2. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 18 June 2013 13: 38 New
      0
      Quote: wawan
      If you cancel the exam and enter the entrance exams at the university, then corruption on admission will increase compared to the current

      this was one of the main arguments for the EEGE-GE, but for some reason here and there they put the prisoner off precisely for bribes upon delivery
      1. Wawan
        Wawan 18 June 2013 14: 31 New
        +2
        Vladimir, I passed the final and entrance exams in the late 80s and I want to say that there were bribes back then. In my parallel class, the son of a party boss studied, he graduated perfectly at school and he had a certificate without triples. We passed the entrance exams to the institute together and I saw how he scored and scored three points. Nevertheless, after the results were posted, it turned out that he passed all the exams perfectly. So in the current situation, a return to the entrance exam will bring more bitter results than the exam. And the exam must be changed, the education system itself must be changed.
        1. Vasilenko Vladimir
          Vasilenko Vladimir 18 June 2013 16: 42 New
          +1
          bribes have always been throughout the history of mankind, but at the same time you can’t see an absolute loser under the Red Diploma Union as your ears

          USE and the education system is not compatible
  • pensioner
    pensioner 18 June 2013 09: 11 New
    +5
    Let the esteemed author excuse me - Alexey Volodin, but I have not even read the article. I have no doubt that in the article, as always, the topic is fully and talented. It's just that when I say the exam, something like rabies begins. INTRODUCTION OF THE USE IN RUSSIA IS A CRIME. And the victims of this CRIME, first of all, are those who surrender it! How ugly the forms of corruption are in general, but upon passing the USE this ugliness is indescribable !!
  • rereture
    rereture 18 June 2013 09: 19 New
    +4
    Corruption of corruption, and in the Bryansk region in the village of Kletnya fined each member of the commission for 20 thousand. rubles, and a school for 40 thousand rubles. For the fact that the child took out the phone on the exam. Workers at the local kindergarten were invited to the commission.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 18 June 2013 09: 28 New
      +8
      Quote: rereture
      Workers at the local kindergarten were invited to the commission.

      Workers in kindergartens have such big salaries that they have a fine of 20 thousand. In the days of the USSR, they sat quietly and passed exams without any commissions.
      1. Kars
        Kars 18 June 2013 09: 31 New
        +2
        Your rating is interesting, what’s reached the million?
    2. pensioner
      pensioner 18 June 2013 10: 08 New
      0
      The name of the settlement obliges ...
  • Strashila
    Strashila 18 June 2013 09: 25 New
    +5
    The exam cannot contribute to the development of education; it does not contribute to the mental development of the student’s personality. USE, this study of a rigid set of rules and patterns eliminating dissent at the root, restricting the student’s worldview to the scope of the test.
    1. EDW
      EDW 18 June 2013 15: 30 New
      +1
      I agree, the questionnaire, one way or another, teaches you not to think, but to choose from the available options.
      Most tests, and the Unified State Exam in particular, instill binary machine logic into the human brain instead of free thinking and a non-standard approach.
      If you give such “freedom of choice” from an early age, a person will not notice that there is no choice.
      But how simple it is to show that democracy exists and flourishes, simply by adding another answer option (for example, in the passport in the "gender" column).
      Ugh, damn it! Something disgusting ...
      At the output of this system, in N-eleven years, people will be obtained — d, e, b, and, l, s without creative thinking, without a design vein, without spirituality.
      I won’t be surprised if it will be simple consumers whose destiny is to distinguish black from white according to the pattern, and to respond, like Pavlov’s dog, to external stimuli.
      If we want to be / remain a great country, then we need to develop and look for solutions, even if they are clearly not visible, and not learn template logic.
  • Svobodny
    Svobodny 18 June 2013 09: 31 New
    +2
    Zhirinovsky, with all his famous cockroaches, constantly offers a very reasonable thing - to cancel the entrance exams in general. Admit to universities without exams, but deduct up to half of the admission after the first session. People who are not able to learn will not even need to be asked; they will be deducted of their own free will.

    Why all this circus !? Unified state examination ... Schoolchildren with the police GIVE IN ORDER TO NOT CHARGE. FUNNY! Skirts are raised for schoolgirls - are there any cheat sheets? We accept everyone in universities, and whoever wants to study will be an engineer, a doctor, a programmer! For others - a huge number of vacant jobs today occupied by representatives of the fraternal republics of Central Asia ... But we control all the knowledge of the poor guys, we are afraid not to write them off. Shame ...
    1. Starina_hank
      Starina_hank 18 June 2013 18: 23 New
      0
      Will only the children of wealthy parents remain! Or are there no bribe-takers in universities?
  • rereture
    rereture 18 June 2013 09: 32 New
    +2
    Universities, by the way, also speculate in 100 balmniks. I entered the St. Petersburg Polytechnic according to the results of an exam with physics, in total there were 178 points for three exams (physics failed), I look at the rating, the first 130 people (130 budget places were for this specialty) with 280 points. I took the documents and took them to another university for another specialty and entered. On the eve of the second wave, they called me from the Polytechnic and they say we will enroll you if you bring the originals, I look at the rating in 60th place, and of all 280 balmniks there are 2 people left.
  • rereture
    rereture 18 June 2013 09: 44 New
    +8
    Workers in kindergartens are so big
    salaries, that they have a fine of 20 thousand. In
    Soviet times sat quietly and surrendered
    exams without any fees.


    Do you even know that in the regions the minimum wage is considered an average salary, and the salary is about 20t.r. CONSIDERED FUCKING BIG. EDUCATION IN THE KINDERGARTEN WITH PREMISES AND ALLOWANCE GETS ABOUT 12 TR And on average about 8t.r. just above the minimum wage.
  • Yun Klob
    Yun Klob 18 June 2013 09: 49 New
    +5
    Yes, we have a mess in the field of education. Specialists are unclaimed in the market in absolutely unimaginable quantities, as a result of which there is an increase in youth unemployment and an increase in crime. Specialists in demand professions, but which our educational institutions do not train, are imported from abroad sincerely believing them to be specialists.
  • nepopadun
    nepopadun 18 June 2013 10: 06 New
    +5
    It is necessary to return the USSR, and soon Russia will not be
  • vladsolo56
    vladsolo56 18 June 2013 10: 10 New
    +2
    In fact, any exams are just a test of the student’s memory, no more. Whoever has better memory remembers more and who has better indicators. So the best memory does not always determine the best mental abilities, the best thinking. There are enough examples when people with an unimportant memory, as scattered say, were outstanding scientists, but on the contrary, people with a phenomenal memory were simply phenomena only in remembering nothing more. I will not assert my case, but it seems to me that during the academic year more tests should be carried out on all topics studied, and in the end just calculate the average score. In addition, controversial disciplines, such as literature, history, are generally excluded from exams.
    1. Hudo
      Hudo 18 June 2013 12: 01 New
      +1
      Quote: vladsolo56
      In addition, controversial disciplines, such as literature, history, are generally excluded from exams.



      Are you not afraid that you will stop reading at all? What will cease to teach history and become to the delight of the enemies mankurt and zombies - the Ivanovites and the reminiscent?
      1. vladsolo56
        vladsolo56 18 June 2013 16: 15 New
        +3
        are you so sure that all this is studying now? and even more memorable? You are exaggerating too much. History and literature should be given in such a way that it would be interesting and so that it would be easy to remember. And not so boring and boring as it is written in textbooks. A school is a school, not a historical or literary institution. In addition, especially in literature, there is no point in remembering birthdays and dates of writing works. The main thing is simply to know who wrote what.
        1. rereture
          rereture 18 June 2013 16: 39 New
          +1
          Correctly. I was especially interested in the question on literature “What did the author feel when he wrote this work?”, Of course, you need to analyze and try to understand what the author wanted to say and show. But what he felt was no one could know.

          I remember writing an essay on the play "The Storm" of Ostrovsky on the theme "the image of Catherine in the play", I read the work, read the critics, and wrote that the main character is a weak, depressed, not far-off woman who can not change anything in her life, yes to she cheated on her husband, because of her nearness, she preferred death to escape with her lover.

          As a result, I got 2 for my opinion.

          В
          1. Starina_hank
            Starina_hank 18 June 2013 18: 28 New
            +1
            "In your years you can’t dare to have an opinion ..." wink
    2. aviamed90
      aviamed90 18 June 2013 12: 48 New
      0
      vladsolo56

      I do not agree with you. Rather, I do not quite agree.

      I myself am not a teacher.
      But in my opinion, the purpose of the exam is not to check only the memory, but to test the student’s ability to think, compare facts based on the information received and draw conclusions. Of course, without remembering, this is not possible.

      And why then, in your opinion, we were tortured with essays in the Soviet school? Or in history lessons, when a student stated in his own words the facts that were discussed on the topic? It was then that it became clear whether he could think or not.

      I was surprised to learn recently how students take an exam in the 9th grade in the Russian language (GIA)! The content of the exam (and this is not even an exam):

      "Part 1 - a detailed account of the text. 75 minutes.

      Part 2 - reading the proposed text and completing assignments. You are invited to compare the contents of the listened and read texts. To do this, carefully read the text, trying to understand its content. Then proceed to the tasks with the choice of the answer (there are 10 such tasks). For each task, 4 answers are given, only one of them is correct. Answer only after you understand the question and analyze all the answers. 45 minutes.

      Part 3 - writing a small volume of essay-reasoning based on the listened and read texts. 120 minutes. "

      This is the level!
  • Grigorich 1962
    Grigorich 1962 18 June 2013 10: 16 New
    +3
    exam system in subjects. this is the usual testing ..... where in any case less than 30% of the points cannot be obtained. Just poke the checkmarks into the cells and something will turn out ... somewhere you’ll guess correctly ... such knowledge ... you understand
    The exam can and should be carried out as a pre-examination .... as admission to the exam. And the scope of the exam should be limited and compiled by the institution. And the main exam .... especially the essay should be carried out as before ... in the good Soviet times
  • boyarinsanek
    boyarinsanek 18 June 2013 10: 21 New
    +3
    Hello, I graduated from grade 11, passed the exam perfectly. On the one hand, when passing the exam, it is very convenient to enter universities, on the other hand, while preparing for exams, only those tasks that are in the exam are being worked out. Thank God we had a strong teacher of mathematics and it required knowledge. And in general, I think the problem in the education system is not only in the USE, but in good teachers, who should have the goal of hammering knowledge into the student, and not to put an assessment.

    It is too late to cancel the Unified State Examination - everything just switched to this system and again to redo everything, I think we do not need the next unsuccessful reforms. It certainly needs to be improved. This is the main task of the Ministry of Education. Regarding the Soviet system, I think that at our level of corruption, it will be impossible to enter more than one university with such a system if you do not have money. It's a pity.
  • Ulysses
    Ulysses 18 June 2013 10: 22 New
    +4
    GDP, return Soviet education, the best in the world.
  • fisherman
    fisherman 18 June 2013 10: 23 New
    +17
    USE-as a means of final dulling of the population of our country.
    1. soaring
      soaring 18 June 2013 13: 04 New
      +4
      Quote: fisherman
      USE-as a means of final dulling of the population of our country.

      But a little more and there will be a generation of downs and a country of downs ... Does our leadership really want this !? Although judging by the movements of our education ministers from one chair to another, it will be so! And this is very beneficial for someone ....
      IMHO. You involuntarily remember the 37th year ... He violated the law, you are considered a traitor to the homeland, the execution. And nobody grabbed the money .. And who grabbed a long time did not live.
  • My address
    My address 18 June 2013 10: 25 New
    +8
    I look at my eldest grandchildren and take a frenzy. Guys have a task to memorize. The system is not interested in the ability of the student / student to think. In my time, not all teachers taught to think, but now nobody teaches this at all, except in extra classes. Here domoki writes that the so-called. "Engineers" do not distinguish the bolt from the screw, so some do not differ from the nut. It got to the point that companies prefer external students / evening workers, they know something for sure, and the diary-engineer is like a cat in a bag.
    1. sergey72
      sergey72 18 June 2013 11: 03 New
      +2
      I totally agree with you hi .
    2. aviamed90
      aviamed90 18 June 2013 12: 56 New
      +5
      My address

      That is why my wife kept most of the Soviet textbooks. Otherwise - a pipe! And so, at least on your own (or under the guidance of parents, grandparents) you can learn and understand something.

      Of course, not everyone has a grandmother, and some have no parents. But still.

      By the way, there are sites on the network where they can be downloaded absolutely free of charge in any subject and for any class. This is not a problem right now.
  • drummer 2013
    drummer 2013 18 June 2013 10: 29 New
    +6
    The exam has become a business and an indicator of the success of officials from the Ministry of Education. And here all means are good. This is where the dog is buried. While corruption flourishes in the country, there will be no other.
  • tarks
    tarks 18 June 2013 10: 40 New
    +3
    USE. How to finish Russia.
    1. Hudo
      Hudo 18 June 2013 10: 45 New
      +3
      Quote: tarks
      USE. How to finish Russia.


      To my regret, Ukraine is being finished off with similar idiotic tests no less successfully. sad
      1. tarks
        tarks 18 June 2013 11: 08 New
        +3
        Well, the initiator is one.
        1. Hudo
          Hudo 18 June 2013 11: 22 New
          +2
          Quote: tarks
          Well, the initiator is one.


          And then !!! Since he himself turned over money, he dumped money on a program of accelerated debilitation of the Slavic peoples.
  • tarks
    tarks 18 June 2013 10: 42 New
    +5
    Of course, it would be necessary to return to the Soviet system. Only with whom? The new teacher's corps is also already ... EGENUTY.
  • scorpido
    scorpido 18 June 2013 10: 46 New
    +11
    I’m a teacher and I must say that from the 9th grade I begin to purposefully prepare students for the exam, the children pass almost everything, but the madhouse that the teachers themselves can not pass on to anyone, because we are the organizers of the exam. At first, it seems that we are being taught, then they are forcibly assigned to whom: to the entrance, to the corridor and to the audience. During the Unified State Examination, and the organizer arrives at the PES holding site at 7.00 in the morning and until 16.00, approximately the teacher can neither eat nor talk, nothing of what is inherent in a person. Extremely strict and tough rules and requirements during the exam - there were cases of dismissal from work due to a simple mistake, such as mixed up forms or something else .. A fine of 30 thousand rubles, while we get nothing except lost nerves for this .. Good students often get low scores because of ridiculous tasks, which weren’t even in kimami, and even less so in the curriculum ... They got webcams, children get even more nervous .. Why do we teachers need to love the Unified State Exam ???
  • Commissar of the NKVD
    Commissar of the NKVD 18 June 2013 10: 47 New
    +3
    Quote: Dimy4
    True true. An electrical engineer comes to work to get a job. I gave him the button starter and wire, assemble, I say the asynchronous start-up circuit. He did not succeed in the staff of electricians, I did not take him.

    It happens worse. Last year, I saw how a graduate doctor listened to my heart. Mom is dear !!! Pokes in the chest here and there. I told him: “Listen to Botkin’s point.” He looked at me like a ram at a new gate. It seems he doesn’t know exactly where it is located
    1. tarks
      tarks 18 June 2013 11: 06 New
      +1
      ... and Botkin first heard the name. what
  • fenix57
    fenix57 18 June 2013 11: 11 New
    +3
    Quote: Povshnik
    And what was this school?

    First, THERE WAS A SCHOOL AND ERA OF THINKING PEOPLE, and not "CHICAGO" boys who allow themselves to "lead"! This is the "Chicago" -90s of the Russian, without the "fire" .. that's all I said ..
  • tarks
    tarks 18 June 2013 11: 14 New
    +1
    Yeah. Examination - this is not for you to rename the police to the police. And not the tinkering of watches and time zones. This is much worse.
  • treskoed
    treskoed 18 June 2013 11: 31 New
    +1
    An entire information avalanche with a clearly negative coloration dedicated to the Unified State Examination literally swept Russia.

    By and large, in school, children should receive education, not markings on the report card. And all this fuss with the USE distracts people from problems at school! How many innovations are there? Yes, cards in classes where Leningrad and Sverdlovsk are still present, or even not at all. The money allocated for the provision of the educational process is extremely scarce, in order to somehow match it is collected from parents and for repairs and textbooks, I'm not talking about visiting museums and exhibitions. That's what you need to talk about, and exams can be canceled altogether!
  • fenix57
    fenix57 18 June 2013 11: 35 New
    0
    Quote: Truffoff
    In our school it was like this:

    In "OUR SCHOOL", you go in and hold out your hand, stretch out, so that you pull on the "spur" ... the Pythagorean theorem ...... coped! hi
  • Ilyas
    Ilyas 18 June 2013 11: 37 New
    +2
    I am not satisfied with the exam that the university does not have the right not to accept an applicant, he must enroll the applicant. There are USE results - they are high, that's all! - The university is obliged to accept! But in military universities on the exam - do not accept! There is a list of specialties where the results of the exam are not enough, and you must pass an exam.

    If the state respects itself, it should allow and even oblige ALL state. Universities conduct at least 1 entrance exam.
  • Alex
    Alex 18 June 2013 11: 59 New
    +4
    Quote: vladsolo56
    In fact, any exams are just a test of the student’s memory, no more

    I do not agree. Knowledge, or rather understanding is verified very simply - to formulate the same questions in a different way. The bison will float right there.
    During the years of my studies at the institute, at exams, for example in theoretical mechanics, structural mechanics or compromising materials, teachers immediately pushed aside answers to the theory and made it possible to solve problems. And evaluated primarily by them.
    1. kris
      kris 18 June 2013 12: 54 New
      +2
      Quote: Alex
      During the years of my studies at the institute, at exams, for example in theoretical mechanics, structural mechanics or compromising materials, teachers immediately pushed aside answers to the theory and made it possible to solve problems. And evaluated primarily by them.

      And I had a similar one. And also allowed to use textbooks and notes.
      And he said: "It is important for me that you think and understand and can solve the task."
      ps The teacher was a student of Rostislav Alekseev himself.
  • Kerch
    Kerch 18 June 2013 12: 19 New
    +1
    I’ll put in my five cents, I work as a lawyer with a private trader. They sent a guy to us to practice (after the 4th (!!) course of the law faculty). I tell him - make a power of attorney in court and do not forget to indicate there special powers for the court (those who know will understand). You should have seen his expression on the word power of attorney and what you need to write there. And it was 4 course !!!
  • Kerch
    Kerch 18 June 2013 12: 22 New
    +1
    “In fact, any exams are just a test of the student’s memory, no more. Whoever has better memory remembers more and has better indicators. So the best memory does not always determine the best mental abilities, better thinking. There are enough examples when people with not important memory, as scattered people say, were outstanding scientists, but on the contrary, people with phenomenal memory were just phenomena only in remembering nothing more.I won’t affirm that I’m right, but it seems to me that I should spend more Tolstoy work on all topics studied, and in the end just calculate the average score. In addition, disciplinary subjects such as literature, history, generally excluded from exams.

    We had one unique course. The memory was not only phenomenal, but the law could be remembered the first time. I got up at the seminar and gave out as by appointment. But when the teacher asked him about the same law but for understanding, then he went into a stupor)
  • Reserve buildbat
    Reserve buildbat 18 June 2013 12: 29 New
    +5
    In general, the Unified State Examination, in my opinion, is a diversion and nothing else. But even worse is the fact that now the inquisitive people who are interested not in knowledge but in iPhones are initially brought up. Previously, if I entered a university, I studied there, received knowledge, since I am interested and needed. Now everyone does not care. a diploma does not mean anything when applying for a job, as it does not reflect a person’s level. That divorced lawyers, economists, bankers, managers. How do you like the specialty "banker" in the agricultural academy? In a former agricultural technical school.
  • Evgeniy46
    Evgeniy46 18 June 2013 14: 20 New
    +1
    I had to pass the exam, so I will share my impressions.
    So, 9 class. Additionally (at choice) he handed over physics and geography. More on the old system. Questions in physics did not change for several (!) Years, they were known throughout the school. As for geography, there all the questions came out in print (!). Together with cheat sheets. That is, the traditional system of surrender has already discredited itself.
    11 class and hello, exam. He handed over a choice of physics, biology, social science. Many here like to talk about putting a tick at random and solving tests, without even understanding the meaning of the test part. For example, consider physics.
    So, dozens of tasks with 4 answer options. Check the box, right? But figs to you, forum users. To check the box correctly, the problem must be solved. And, although on the whole the part is simple, to solve problems it is necessary to understand the fundamentals of physics. In the second part, it is already necessary to solve the problem and enter the answer. And again, knowledge and understanding of the subject is necessary. In the third part, the most complicated tasks have already gone, from which I successfully coped with the task of quantum physics. Bottom line: 54 score, the best result of the school is not from Physics and Mathematics.
    To summarize a brief summary. The USE greatly facilitated the testing of knowledge by providing graduates and teachers with a knowledge assessment system. Successful completion requires knowledge and understanding of the item being handed over (rather than ticking). Another thing is that the system itself needs to be completed in terms of impartiality and maintaining the secrecy of tasks before exams (hang up the bar top secret with all the consequences). Round off on this
    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 18 June 2013 14: 38 New
      0
      Quote: Eugene46
      Questions in physics did not change for several (!) Years, they were known throughout the school. As for geography, there all the questions came out in print (!). Together with cheat sheets. That is, the traditional system of surrender has already discredited itself.

      tickets have always been known, but the answers to them are far from always rolling at the “spurs” oral exam, because you communicate live and the teacher will always understand whether you know or not, but the topics of essays and written exams have always changed and were revealed only at the exam
    2. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 18 June 2013 14: 40 New
      +1
      Quote: Eugene46
      He handed over a choice of physics, biology, social science. Many here like to talk about putting a tick at random and solving tests, without even understanding the meaning of the test part. For example, consider physics. So, dozens of tasks with 4 possible answers. Check the box, right? But figs to you, forum users. To check the box correctly, the problem must be solved. And, although on the whole the part is simple, to solve problems it is necessary to understand the basics of physics

      You can put a tick without knowing
      1. Evgeniy46
        Evgeniy46 18 June 2013 15: 53 New
        +1
        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
        You can put a tick without knowing

        I do not argue, you can. But not the fact that is true. 0.25 for success with three dozen questions turn into 1 / 120 for success that all the checkmarks are correct. Even if a dozen questions at random - all the same, there are few chances. Necessary knowledge questions posed. Even in the test. For the sake of interest, take USE tickets for any subject, check the boxes and see what happened. And then sit with them for an hour and thoughtfully decide
        1. Vasilenko Vladimir
          Vasilenko Vladimir 18 June 2013 16: 49 New
          0
          Quote: Eugene46
          I do not argue, you can. But not the fact that true

          I once spat out a seed husk and fell into a flying wasp, so that everything is possible
          Quote: Eugene46
          For fun, take the exam tickets
          the problem is that they have jambs above the roof
          1. rereture
            rereture 18 June 2013 16: 50 New
            0
            This is not an argument, there are jambs but there are not so many, but take the Russian language at least. Let's see how much you decide.
          2. Evgeniy46
            Evgeniy46 18 June 2013 17: 31 New
            0
            Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
            the problem is that they have jambs above the roof

            there is. And met. But only in collections for preparation. About the jambs on the exam I have never heard
            1. Vasilenko Vladimir
              Vasilenko Vladimir 18 June 2013 17: 41 New
              0
              I won’t argue, I saw no questions
  • Black
    Black 18 June 2013 14: 39 New
    +3
    And I will say in defense of the exam.
    What came before ..
    - The final exam in the vast majority of schools is a pedagogical deal with a conscience. Teacher whose s.p. directly related to the success of passing the final exam, and taking this exam, well, it should be - unbroken, so as not to lie. the director of the school (chairman of the ex. com.), whose z.p., rating of the institution, is directly related to the success of the graduation should be "out of this world" to allow 20-30% of students to put up (and often this is the case )
    - Entrance exams in the 90s-00s turned into just corruption games.
    We have in Volgograd in the late 90s
    Investigative school 200-250 thousand rubles.
    Medical Academy 150-180 thousand rubles
    -Academy of state administration- 150-200 thousand rubles.
    - VolSU 50-150 thousand rubles.
    - peduniver - free (almost)
    - those from free to 100 thousand rubles.
    The exam at the bribe-trick universal lobby knocked out a bench from underneath. It is they who scream most.
    Unified State Examination in its current form - while a nightmare and filth. It is necessary not to cancel it, but to substantially modernize_
    - change the Unified State Exam in humanitarian subjects (in Russian language - essay, but not at school, but at the point of passing the Unified State Examination), in literature, in history - an oral exam !!!!! - an independent commission, with the involvement of university teachers in the same place.
    - in exact sciences ... etch the very ability to write off (for example, publish a collection with 10000 tasks- and form a package- at the time of delivery !!!), complicate it many times (the wife showed the tasks of this year - on “3” it was necessary to do 5 tasks on arithmetic-level 5-7 classes.)
    Well, the little things ..
    Stavropol "popes" to dismiss, their children to issue "certificates", without the right to retake,
    - to regions with a high level of 100 balics to prohibit entering the leading universities of the country, let them raise their regional higher education. arr. if so smart

    o find OBR officials who posted tasks on the network for 10 years without the right to correspondence.

    - create centers for passing the exam. Moreover, all year round, starting from 3 times for a lot of money.
    In general, you need to think and change, and not hait.
    1. Wawan
      Wawan 18 June 2013 14: 49 New
      0
      Here at least one person suggested a normal approach to the problem hi
      1. EDW
        EDW 18 June 2013 15: 50 New
        0
        Also suggest:
        Based on the fact that combating corruption by destroying the education system is unacceptable, we immediately recall the Chinese experience (the death penalty).
        For the Slavs and our demography, this is probably too much, so I suggest violators be sent to correctional labor from 15 days or more without the right to buy, defer, amnesty, etc. with mandatory cancellation of results and retake. And be sure to dismiss those involved without the right to occupy similar and higher posts.
        Somehow smile
    2. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 18 June 2013 14: 56 New
      -1
      Quote: Chen
      We have in Volgograd in the late 90s ...

      and with us under the Union, neither who nor when
      besides, now the issue of corruption has only worsened, and in some republics it seems that in general soon the price list will be spread
  • cool.ya-nikola
    cool.ya-nikola 18 June 2013 15: 45 New
    0
    USE frankly does not cope with its task

    So, in fact, if you know what a task! Now, if we take as a basis that:
    Quote: fisherman
    USE-as a means of final dulling of the population of our country.
    , so, even very well copes ...

    The USE not only does not fulfill its main function - a barrier to corruption, but also systematically creates a system of total fraud.

    It remains, only in this, to convince the country's leadership! And, here, this is unlikely to succeed, because: -
    I have not heard from a single teacher, let’s say, such a position: this is a harmful thing, in vain you started it all. D. A. Medvedev Chairman of the Cabinet of Ministers of the Russian Federation


    Well, I haven’t heard, man, but can you really blame it? ...
  • rereture
    rereture 18 June 2013 15: 50 New
    0
    yeah and even in the union the grass is greener, it’s more difficult to enter regional universities according to the results of the ege than to the capital. Since in regional universities, officials have not changed since the 90s, in any case, you will lose money, in many universities you are not shy to immediately name the price you need to pay to get to the budget. they are not shy to declare, since you have a high score, then you bought them, bought them - give us money.

    At the university only after the session leaves a third of the group.
    1. Evgeniy46
      Evgeniy46 18 June 2013 17: 39 New
      +1
      in principle, it is. In the Kursk region, it’s easier to enter Moscow than on the same budget in Kursk itself
  • Harleone
    Harleone 18 June 2013 15: 50 New
    +1
    The USE idea itself is successful - it’s much easier to take every subject at home, rather than wander around our large country and pass exams at every university. But the exam has been reduced to insanity and something needs to be changed, preferably radically. But we know our officials who are clean like a glass yes
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Taz
    Taz 18 June 2013 16: 16 New
    +2
    "think, change ... think, change ... and think and change again ..." - poor children, how many more experiments will be done on them?
  • Egor.nic
    Egor.nic 18 June 2013 16: 18 New
    0
    You can judge the pros and cons of the exam and the standard exam form for a long time, but the fact remains. During the reform of education, the number of Antoshkas (like we didn’t go through this, we weren’t asked) and some times increased. Even the Bolsheviks did not completely destroy the form of education built under ancient tsarism (but the cooks and shoemakers could not rule the state under the USSR and cannot now, it is Bolshevik propaganda), unlike the transformations launched by Gorbachev and Yeltsin that completely destroyed everything.
    Yes, for examination, the exam was a premature option unsuccessfully copied from the western sample of education. But the exam has become the end of the destruction of secondary education and will become a destroyer of higher education in Russia. In secondary schools over the past 10-12 years there has been an almost total replacement of directors. New school principals began to form a new teaching staff according to a decree from above (for example, in Moscow, the head of the department of education, Kalina Isaak Iosifovich, was a teacher of vocational schools in the past and was promoted to Moscow during the reign of Moscow by mayor Kats Yu.M.). During this period, smart and progressive teachers who really taught and taught knowledge began to be squeezed out of Moscow schools. At the moment, the teaching staff of Moscow schools is 60-70% equipped with a staff that does not give knowledge and does not actively teach directions. And here is mutual responsibility.
    A similar situation is with education in the regions. The situation in higher education is slightly different. Add to this the influence on children of the Internet and television in the face of various talk shows, jokes from comedy club and the like.
    The essence is different - whether the society is able to fix this - the society elected the president, it must demand from him the correct reforms that satisfy the society. The president should demand from the cabinet of ministers accountability and responsibility for their work. For poor work, one should answer - with a salary, a place, property, freedom, and, if necessary, with life (it depends on the depth and extent of the damage done to the country and society by this minister or other official during his work). After all, they work not on a voluntary basis, but as a result of their activity, they do nothing but harmful reforms.
    I understand the country's leader in that it is very difficult to assemble a worthy team of qualified specialists and like-minded people, both at the level of a small company and at the level of a large company, including at the level of the cabinet of ministers and other similar structures. But, step by step, through mistakes, listening to the society it is possible to establish, restore and do really better.
    1. Starina_hank
      Starina_hank 18 June 2013 18: 50 New
      0
      Something doesn’t answer us very much, and in the last 15 years we have done something not much good under the strict guidance of our permanent leader!
  • tank64rus
    tank64rus 18 June 2013 16: 53 New
    +2
    I have been teaching in high school for 24 years. We can say one exam is not needed, moreover harmful. Some say corruption. But did it disappear, on the contrary, flourished. To the teacher did not take it is necessary to pay with dignity, and not as now the doctor 14-16 t. Associate Professor 10-12 t. All this will finally achieve higher education.
    1. QWERTY
      QWERTY 18 June 2013 21: 07 New
      -2
      Well, who makes you work for a penny? The nagging "oh in the police ... army ... etc. is so infuriating that I have to take something from someone." Change your job, in the end, or don’t whine. In the university where I studied the teachers at the department (my profile) all had expensive cars, they rested wherever they wanted and at the same time they didn’t take money from students. But why would he need my $ 100 if the income is several times higher? And the reason is simple - everyone combined work in A university with work in laboratories, design organizations, someone on this subject has their own firms, etc. They raised the salaries in the army and police, and raised them well, so what? Cops as they took money, and take.
  • Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 18 June 2013 16: 55 New
    0
    Quote: Harleone
    The USE idea itself is successful - it’s much easier to take every subject at home, rather than dangle around our large country and take exams at every university

    at the end of the 80s there were visiting entrance commissions that scammed around the cities