Military Review

PAK FA surprised creators

188

In Zhukovsky near Moscow, one of the stages of testing the T-50 multi-role fighter, the elements of which are being developed by organizations of the Rostec state corporation, was completed.


The Russian 5-generation aircraft not only surpassed its foreign counterparts in its parameters, but also showed characteristics that exceeded the developers' expectations, according to a press release from the state corporation.

Perspective aviation the T-50 front-line aviation complex is an aircraft capable of performing any task intended for both a fighter and an attack aircraft and a bomber. The fifth generation fighter is invisible to enemy radars, has a speed of more than 2500 km / h and has artificial intelligence. The aircraft is able to perform complex operations that were previously impossible without pilot intervention.

The PAK FA performed demonstration flights and demonstrated aerobatics. According to testers, the machine does a lot on its own, which makes it easier for the pilot. For example, if you let go of the handle on takeoff, the plane itself will switch to horizontal flight mode. Even in the case when the pilot is not able to fly a fighter, the T-50 is able to return to its home base and land.

The T-50 has an automatic target recognition system. Special transceiver elements are built into the casing of the PAK-FA, thanks to which the aircraft reacts to all objects around it and transmits signals to the pilot about the threat.

The main structural elements of the fighter are manufactured by Rostec enterprises. The power plant is being developed by designers of the United Engine Corporation. Lantern cockpit and trim make specialists holding "RT-Chemcomposite." Avionics and avionics that meet the requirements of the fifth generation aircraft are created in the “Radio-electronic technologies” concern.

Most of the characteristics of the fighter kept secret. The only thing that is claimed by the designers, many of the parameters of the PAK-FA are superior to the American fifth-generation Raptor F-22 aircraft. The speed of the Russian aircraft is more on 500 km / h, the weight of the structure is less, and the duration of the flight is much higher. In addition, the T-50 is more maneuverable than the American fighter.

During the secret tests, the T-50 made more than 500 sorties. The developers claim that the first stage of testing was successful. The complex of the fifth generation T-50 plan to start mass production in 2015 year.
Originator:
http://www.aviaport.ru/
188 comments
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  1. jungler
    jungler 14 June 2013 10: 44 New
    +4
    Yes. Apparently a good car. Unclear lope costs? those. what will the taxpayer cost? And how much will the army be able to order?
    1. Orel
      Orel 14 June 2013 11: 02 New
      20
      PAK FA surprised creators


      It remains to surprise the NATO Air Force. Not in their favor of course.
      1. Mizhgan
        Mizhgan 14 June 2013 11: 06 New
        +2
        Quote: Orel
        It remains to surprise the NATO Air Force. Not in their favor of course.

        They have a nervous tick, and their hands are shaking, probably. Not to surprise them.
        1. berserk1967
          berserk1967 14 June 2013 11: 29 New
          37
          In the frames shown by Channel One and Vesti, as T-50 flies, Amers and NATO members will definitely have a nervous tick. Not one aircraft in the world is capable of this.
          1. Sergh
            Sergh 14 June 2013 13: 06 New
            20
            Quote: berserk1967
            Channel One and Vesti as it flies

            Well, ours are able to fly ...

            1. Phantom Revolution
              Phantom Revolution 14 June 2013 16: 19 New
              19
              Quote: Sergh
              Well, ours are able to fly ...

              Yes, handsome)
            2. VAF
              VAF 14 June 2013 17: 58 New
              0
              Quote: Sergh
              Well, ours are able to fly ...


              Seryoga, hello! Well amers the same .. not with a finger did! wink

              1. escobar
                escobar 14 June 2013 19: 14 New
                +5
                With the worst glider, amers go on a super engine. If you consider that the serial production of f22 began in 2001, this breakthrough deserves respect.
                1. VAF
                  VAF 14 June 2013 20: 06 New
                  +5
                  Quote: escobar
                  With the worst glider


                  It is debatable of course .. if you take it in the complex as an airplane, and not just .. aerodynamic blowdowns! +! wink

                  Quote: escobar
                  on the super engine


                  The same is debatable, because I prefer our “motor” more, and if “they give birth to the second stage” .. then .. there will generally be a song!

                  Quote: escobar
                  .If you consider that the serial production of f22 began in 2001, this breakthrough deserves respect.


                  Here is just +! drinks
                2. Containers
                  Containers 15 June 2013 09: 56 New
                  +1
                  I would say that not on the engine, but on avionics and electronic components. The engine there is not something super-outgoing.
              2. Fofan
                Fofan 14 June 2013 21: 19 New
                10
                That's better
              3. piotr534
                piotr534 19 June 2013 16: 07 New
                +3
                It seemed to me that the rapper needed a lot of speed to perform the same figures, ours almost freezes and turns around in place, which indicates better maneuverability.
            3. silent75
              silent75 14 June 2013 23: 40 New
              +3
              Insanely beautiful, I would say - grandiose! Mesmerizing!
            4. tarks
              tarks 18 June 2013 11: 42 New
              0
              what kind of fountains from time to time?
          2. Oleg14774
            Oleg14774 14 June 2013 15: 08 New
            +4
            Quote: berserk1967
            as the T-50 flies, amers and NATO members will definitely have a nervous tick. Not one aircraft in the world is capable of this.

            So, not only from the T-50, but also from the SU-37 and Su-35, they, too, are nervous, it will happen too.
          3. Phantom Revolution
            Phantom Revolution 14 June 2013 16: 22 New
            +4
            Quote: berserk1967
            In the frames shown by Channel One and Vesti, as T-50 flies, Amers and NATO members will definitely have a nervous tick. Not one aircraft in the world is capable of this.

            I don’t know, it seems to me that it is slightly inferior to the Su-35 in terms of maneuverability.
          4. VAF
            VAF 14 June 2013 17: 31 New
            +2
            Quote: berserk1967
            According to the frames shown by Channel One and Vesti, as the T-50 flies,


            Watch more often ... and also Polygon, Star ... and Chapman ... generally will be ..super !!! wassat

            Quote: berserk1967
            amers and NATO members will definitely have a nervous tick


            From what ... from the fact that ours only after 20 years (!!!) came to this ??? request

            Quote: berserk1967
            Not one aircraft in the world is capable of this.


            Never say never!!! Especially if neither ....... you know! soldier

            1. Anatoli_kz
              Anatoli_kz 14 June 2013 18: 05 New
              +4
              And the truth is ridiculous: Not a single aircraft in the world is capable of this ??
            2. Avenger711
              Avenger711 14 June 2013 18: 05 New
              -7
              Which is experimental.
            3. atalef
              atalef 14 June 2013 18: 15 New
              +1
              Quote: vaf
              Especially if neither ....... you know!

              Hello Seryozha. You are right as always. good
              Most of the characteristics of the fighter kept secret. The only thing that is claimed by the designers, many of the parameters of the PAK-FA are superior to the American fifth-generation Raptor F-22 aircraft. The speed of the Russian aircraft is more on 500 km / h, the weight of the structure is less, and the duration of the flight is much higher. In addition, the T-50 is more maneuverable than the American fighter.

              In general, I think that the characteristics of F 22 (many) are the same as being classified.
              The only thing that is 100% known that it flies is mass-produced and has been relatively long.
              But this is the best in the world, which has no analogues, has not yet been surpassed ---- but for some reason has not yet been released, not shown or not tested. How we love to share the skin of a dead bear.
              1. Constantine
                Constantine 14 June 2013 19: 18 New
                29
                Quote: atalef
                mass-produced and for a relatively long time.


                No longer

                Quote: atalef
                what is he flying


                Yes, but with restrictions on speed, distance from airfields and altitude, due to the imperfection of some systems.

                And further. No matter what anyone says, Russian military equipment is one of the most advanced and perfect, and if it is “the best in the world” and “has no analogues” it will at least somehow positively affect pride in one’s love for one’s family and not for foreign, then at least in every video and article it is sculpted. This makes me neither cold nor hot, but for now it will take ordinary people for the necessary feelings - I do not mind. As well as any person to whom the country is not indifferent.
                1. mirag2
                  mirag2 14 June 2013 21: 35 New
                  +8
                  I am pleased to read your posts, I remember your super-logical arguments about the "breakthroughs" in the design of the F-35.
                  1. Constantine
                    Constantine 14 June 2013 22: 21 New
                    +4
                    Thanks It's nice )
              2. ed65b
                ed65b 14 June 2013 23: 08 New
                +5
                You’ll deal with the mercans there, and we’re here somehow. And what is so secret in jealousy?
            4. Phantom Revolution
              Phantom Revolution 14 June 2013 18: 47 New
              22
              Quote: vaf
              Watch more often ... and also Polygon, Star ... and Chapman ... generally will be ..super !!! wassat

              Well, how can I say, all the authorities make such a PR, in the USA it is put on stream, why not ours do so? Even f-22 and f-35 were sucked in films and games.
              Of course, we ourselves must have our heads on our shoulders, but we have something to be proud of.

              Quote: vaf
              From what ... from the fact that ours only after 20 years (!!!) came to this ??? request

              We do not have printing presses, alas, what you wanted after the collapse of the Union when everything was cut back, then it wasn’t before that, many interesting projects were frozen or even closed, only in the 2000s things got off the ground.
              The USSR would not have collapsed, even the 2000 would have been an airplane, but these are only thoughts.
              hi
              1. VAF
                VAF 14 June 2013 21: 02 New
                18
                Quote: Phantom Revolution
                Well, how can I say, all the authorities make such a PR, in the USA it is put on stream, why not ours do so?


                Damn ... I wrote you such an answer that ... I really liked it myself ... but alas ... I don’t let it go ... it’s too long, but returned to the Main page, and the post disappeared .. therefore only theses:

                1. We definitely need PR, but not the same as from our "airspeaks from the media."
                2. If you don’t know how, let them take 5-day interview of Poghosyan .. there’s everything there, though. Not everything, okay I’ll add:

                - With G max. (G fuel + weight-size mock-ups of weapons in the internal compartments), the takeoff mode of the MFR engines is fixed L takeoff only 410 meters !!! fellow

                - The cruising mode of supersonic flight was recorded at V east +2 135 km / h. fellow

                - Fixed maximum speed V East = 2 610 km / h. (There was still a margin wink ) fellow

                - A practical ceiling has been reached (not dynamic or static, well, and even more so evolutionary, but PRACTICAL) = 24 meters (could have been more, but ... wink ) fellow

                Now you can and fellow , because it’s not even for a knowledgeable person, but looking at a comparison table with a Penguin and Khryapa, then ... extreme and ..n’t standing next to it!
                Moreover, that on the T-50 is still the engines of the first stage!

                But I "got fed up" because of = "squeak and squeal" .. nonsense .. who the main thing ... but hell knows what is most important for them !!! request

                Well, for them .. for the indiscreet in the first few weeks I’m getting into the news .. I’m showing the film ... but I haven’t seen it, nobody is doing it, everything’s working ... sya and uss..sya ... kindergarten .. soft it is said!

                Khryapa performs the whole complex of aerobatics, all the figures from minimum evolutionary speeds and maximum angles of attack to our figures-Cobra, Chakra, Kulbit, Hook !!!
                It makes it easy and ... relaxed and even a little controlled flat corkscrew (why a little, because ... the heights are not enough, because after all the show)!

                1. Avenger711
                  Avenger711 15 June 2013 01: 04 New
                  +1
                  Can I link to the interview?
                  Regarding a flat corkscrew, there was an analysis in Paralai, a figure similar, but not him.
                  1. VAF
                    VAF 15 June 2013 01: 20 New
                    +3
                    Quote: Avenger711
                    a figure similar, but not him.


                    And he, a corkscrew on Khryapa, which cannot be due to the design features of his engines (OVT nozzles) and their location, which is why the figure is called a “double U-turn!”

                    And look for the interview yourself. Poghosyan gave it to the ORT channel! hi
                    1. Phantom Revolution
                      Phantom Revolution 15 June 2013 10: 42 New
                      +2
                      Quote: vaf
                      Well, for them .. for the indiscreet in the first few weeks I’m getting into the news .. I’m showing the film ... but I haven’t seen it, nobody is doing it, everything’s working ... sya and uss..sya ... kindergarten .. soft it is said!


                      And about the f-22 and soo they shot the BBS program, they didn’t speak out in favor of the maneuverability of the f-22, maybe such a translation xs, the original did not look. Yes, and weaknesses, the Germans themselves on typhoons showed at f-22, the Americans themselves conducted a virtual battle if it is interesting not difficult to find. In short, if you find then there will be enough minuses, but again it’s too early to judge before the t-50 comes out of the series.
                2. Phantom Revolution
                  Phantom Revolution 15 June 2013 10: 35 New
                  0
                  Quote: vaf
                  1. We definitely need PR, but not the same as from our "airspeaks from the media."

                  This is called the upbringing of patriotism. Anyone who needs it will find an adequate assessment for themselves, there are all sorts of opinions on the network, although it is far-fetched, because only the developer can disclose them. And who needs entertainment and pathos, watch special channels.

                  Quote: vaf
                  2. If you don’t know how, let them take 5-day interview of Poghosyan .. there’s everything there, though. Not everything, okay I’ll add:

                  At the expense of the "truth", they will not open it because the characteristics are real, either higher or lower, because this is a military secret. About the alleged characteristics, such videos are full and even with a degree of skepticism. Like for example.) I didn’t interrupt the entire Internet, you want to find others.



                  about the hryaptor, well, how to say well done, but they are far from drying and instant, rather like the t-50 he also has alas lower maneuverability ... With music, if you want to find it again without music).

                3. saturn.mmm
                  saturn.mmm 16 June 2013 00: 35 New
                  +3
                  Quote: vaf
                  But I "got fed up" because of = "squeak and squeal" .. nonsense .. who the main thing ... but hell knows what is most important for them !!!

                  Well, right not in the eyebrow but in the eye.
                  Quote: vaf
                  Khryapa performs the whole complex of aerobatics, all the figures from minimum evolutionary speeds and maximum angles of attack to our figures-Cobra, Chakra, Kulbit, Hook !!!
                  Makes it easy and ... relaxed

                  Yes, he does, but questions arise easily and naturally.
                  Takeoff. It breaks away from the runway and then accelerates above it and then soars sharply. I'm certainly not an expert but ...
                  1. piotr534
                    piotr534 19 June 2013 17: 05 New
                    +1
                    It’s not even obvious to a specialist that Amer’s are doing it all hard, our people have an extremely short take-off and this agility and lightness is simply mesmerizing. When you see this, there is a healthy sense of pride in ours and it is believed that the patient is more likely to be alive than dead. And there has been a tendency for recovery. good
                  2. Containers
                    Containers 20 June 2013 00: 57 New
                    -1
                    There, 1/5 of the fuel is 15-20 minutes for "flying over the public" and without load. Ours can do "our" somersaults and under loading.
                4. Containers
                  Containers 20 June 2013 00: 55 New
                  0
                  "Cobra" did not see.
          5. Capt.stryker
            Capt.stryker 14 June 2013 17: 47 New
            -27
            Quote: Mijgan
            They have a nervous tick, and their hands are shaking, probably.

            They have a nervous tic, horror and shock from the capabilities of the Rosian weapons only in the inflamed imagination of the Rosy propoganders.

            Quote: berserk1967
            In the frames shown by Channel One and Vesti, as T-50 flies, Amers and NATO members will definitely have a nervous tick. Not one aircraft in the world is capable of this.

            Well, and what did they show there? banal flat corkscrew? With sober eyes, look again at what they showed the “lead” - the T-50 does NOT SHOW ANYTHING SPECIFIC, well, unless if only a flat corkscrew. The trick is only in the camera work of the photographer.

            By the way, in the video from the Discovery, the F-16 with UVT shows the same thing that not a single Soviet-Russian plane could show at that time, but it was almost 20 years ago!
            1. fedorovith
              fedorovith 19 June 2013 21: 37 New
              0
              And you see what shows French television, filmed by French cameramen.
            2. Containers
              Containers 20 June 2013 01: 10 New
              0
              You look less Discovery / NG / etc. which broadcast stories about. There they can tell you that DiCaprio iceberg overcame, and Dr. Goebbels was an ordinary botanist. About animals - you can watch.
              NF-16D MATV - First flight: 1993. (Does '93 not say anything? Well, what about our sausage, many of us rushed to the USA?)
              In the USSR, UVT was implemented on the Yak-41M (aka Yak-141) in 1987. And this scheme, by the way, became the basis for the F-35 - the Americans simply "bought brains" then. True, they crap one's pants in details, and got what they got, but this has nothing to do with the topic of the topic.
              “The whole trick is only in the camera work of the photographer” in F-22 commercials I see just that. It seems like a bell, but some kind of strange, etc ....
        2. Quiet
          Quiet 20 June 2013 12: 29 New
          0
          They have a nervous tick, and their hands are shaking, probably. Not to surprise them.

          “Yes”, “However”, in jokes I read that with such pens and in such a state, I don’t think to satisfy myself !!!! am laughing
        3. 101
          101 20 June 2013 23: 23 New
          0
          How did you get ridiculed: Did you just return from NATO? So you know that the Chinese air forces care much more and they write and discuss about the Chinese generation 5 and they will notice us only when they have something to notice, and it’s a good place to occupy your opuses
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Nikolko
      Nikolko 14 June 2013 11: 54 New
      +1
      Quote: jungler
      Yes. Apparently a good car. Unclear lope costs? those. what will the taxpayer cost? And how much will the army be able to order?

      For our Air Force, the price was not announced. And the Indians plan to buy at $ 100 million
      1. VAF
        VAF 14 June 2013 16: 27 New
        -2
        Quote: Nikolko
        .A Indians plan to buy at $ 100 million


        At present, Indians are going to .... refuse to participate in the project !!!
        Slightly less.... fellow . will be more useful!
        1. Avenger711
          Avenger711 14 June 2013 18: 09 New
          13
          http://www.google.ru/#newwindow=1&sclient=psy-ab&q=ПАК+ФА+Индия+отказывается&oq=
          PAK + FA + India + refuses & gs_l = hp.3 ... 3507.14042.0.14436.25.23.0.2.2.0.244.1553.
          22j0j1.23.0...0.0...1c.1.17.psy-ab.wtpN-rK6juQ&pbx=1&fp=1&biw=1633&bih=875&bav=o
          n.2, or.r_qf. & cad = b

          We read that issues. For example, http://www.vpknews.ru/news/15605, i.e., the Indians rightly decided that since they couldn’t do a simple Tejas, then they couldn’t start making an average fighter, they didn’t say a word about refusing to work on the T-50 . In general, as usual, any info from Vaf should be checked, and there will be many wonderful discoveries.
        2. Constantine
          Constantine 14 June 2013 19: 22 New
          12
          Quote: vaf
          At present, Indians are going to .... refuse to participate in the project !!!


          The fact that they want a T-50 with a tandem cockpit was information. What you have indicated - only pops up in your mind, or somewhere on the Ear of Moscow. Although, if you please pruflink for official statements to the studio, then .. it will be possible to discuss this.
          1. VAF
            VAF 14 June 2013 21: 07 New
            -4
            Quote: Constantine
            What you have indicated - only pops up in your mind, or somewhere on the Ear of Moscow.


            When it seems better .. to baptize or something!

            Quote: Constantine
            Although, if you please pruflink on official statements to the studio


            Enjoy ... hi

            http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/paris-air-show/2013-06-13/indian-home-gro
            wn-amca-alternative-fgfa

            Quote: Constantine
            then .. you can discuss it.


            Do you have anything to do with aviation, aviation industry, aviation export? wink
            1. Constantine
              Constantine 14 June 2013 21: 42 New
              17
              1. Perhaps you did not understand the text correctly, but it says that Indian development will work on ground targets. In addition, they say that no one will give them technology, and Russian technologies are too much ahead of their own. Not a word that they are leaving the project is not there. + This is not an official statement, but rather a review of events and opinions.

              2.
              Quote: vaf
              Do you have anything to do with aviation, aviation industry, aviation export?

              This is a cheap show off. I have to do with venture and the high-tech market, but in any case, building a conversation like this is not worth it. You do not need to be an engineer in aviation to connect events and build a common picture. With such show-offs load youngsters in the yard. in this particular case, this does not in any way draw to that level of understanding, which should be an attribute of a professional. You didn’t even digest the text, but you have already begun to claim that green is, in fact, red.
              1. VAF
                VAF 15 June 2013 00: 30 New
                -7
                Quote: Constantine
                I relate to venture and the high-tech market,


                Somewhere I realized that it is very far, but that would be so lol

                Dear, it’s you who are going with your Chubasik, Skolkovo, etc. to "master" the grandmother under the "on-the-idea" and then soar the brains of people !!!

                Another venture specialist in .. on tanks and light bulbs!

                Please do not bother anymore! soldier
                1. Constantine
                  Constantine 15 June 2013 09: 55 New
                  10
                  Hanging stamps on people based on superficial judgments is an indication of a distant mind.
                  1. VAF
                    VAF 15 June 2013 13: 40 New
                    -2
                    Quote: Constantine
                    Hanging stamps on people based on superficial judgments is an indication of a distant mind.


                    They decided to ... criticize themselves? Or vice versa .. do you not see logs in your eye? Typical Tactics of Bucket and On-On Theorists wassat

                    Your ... pearls:

                    1. What you have indicated - only pops up in your mind, or somewhere on the Ear of Moscow.

                    2. This is a cheap show off. With such show-offs load youngsters in the yard as in this particular case, this does not in any way draw to that level of understanding, which should be an attribute of a professional.

                    3. You didn’t even digest the text, but you have already begun to assert that green is, in fact, red.

                    4. To pretend that you are a guru is at least not correct.

                    5. You are a clown. If you keep track of events, it will be clear as a day. On the face of the substitution of concepts, the transition to stupid trolling. Cheap show-offs, camping, an integral part of you.

                    Well, since ... what about the WEST ???? wassat

                    In short, I’ll repeat it again .. take your “Kent” to Prishtin and .. for a couple .... go beat your head against the wall or the Maidan .. as you wish !!!!
                    Here really ... clowns, in all its glory! laughing
                    1. Constantine
                      Constantine 15 June 2013 13: 53 New
                      +8
                      1. They responded to you the same way you put yourself. You have abandoned with an intelligent appearance an article in which it is not at all the meaning that you attributed to it. It all started with that.

                      2. I pointed out to you your shortcomings, but you continued trolling on an increasing basis, subtly raising your knowledge over mine. At the same time, you do not even have a clue about my knowledge, as well as about my levels of access to all kinds of people and organizations.

                      3. If you dig even deeper, then your attitude to TsAGI, etc. can be brought under the simple truth from Goebels. If a lie is repeated many times, then it will become true. Can any of those present here 100% confirm that you are the one you impersonate? I doubt it.

                      4. Even taking into account the fact that I partially departed from correctness in communication, your level of dialogue is, to put it mildly, cattle, which does not add authority to you at all.

                      5. You are constantly trying to humiliate others for reasons known to you and for reasons completely incomprehensible. Call allegorically everyone, and exalt yourself, .. well, how to say. Rather, it is a kind of inferiority complex that is related to you in life outside the monitor. These are your problems, but pouring this bile on others is a stupid and ungrateful occupation. Again, this way you only discredit yourself. Normal and adequate people try to tactfully explain, rather than humiliate those who know less.

                      6. You do not 100% recognize what I said and will say since it is a barrier at the subconscious level. Recognizing that you are inadequate, rude and rude, you acknowledge that your words are water. Therefore, what you will continue to issue in this regard - I am not interested in. spend your time on you, if you are even unable to change your tone - do not respect yourself. It is much more reasonable, in this case, to simply ignore you. you’ve simply exhausted the meaning of the reaction to your attacks.
                      1. Constantine
                        Constantine 15 June 2013 14: 12 New
                        10
                        Draining 940 points of karma, taking into account only 7 minuses in the comments - the course is certainly strong. The vulnerability of the subject's ego and its dependence on the Internet are immediately confirmed: DDD

                        How many bots do you need so that they so abruptly minus in your profile, without leaving your opinion, as well as win Vaf already Marshal? : D I think a lot.

                        Conclusion: Vaf is a soap bubble, behind which, with a high degree of probability, there are bots.

                        And now the last call to Vaf. You can minus me as much as you like. Beautiful numbers in my profile and shoulder straps mean absolutely nothing to me. Plugging in this way is just babble. )))
                      2. experienced
                        experienced 15 June 2013 14: 16 New
                        -4
                        Quote: Constantine
                        Draining 940 points of karma, taking into account only 7 minuses in the comments - the course is certainly strong. The vulnerability of the subject's ego and its dependence on the Internet are immediately confirmed: DDD

                        When you start to be rude, think about the consequences. There is also my grain of sand in this "sink" hi I do not like it when they are rude, especially when it happens in relation to a worthy person ...
                        Quote: Constantine
                        Conclusion: Vaf is a soap bubble, behind which, with a high degree of probability, there are bots.

                        Conclusion: Constantine is an insulting, insignificant creature that no one is behind. yes
                      3. Constantine
                        Constantine 15 June 2013 14: 24 New
                        +6
                        Those. Are you claiming that there was no rudeness on the part of Waf? )))
                      4. experienced
                        experienced 15 June 2013 14: 28 New
                        -5
                        Quote: Constantine
                        Those. Are you claiming that there was no rudeness on the part of Waf? )))

                        I know the VAF for a long time and for a long time it was able to create the unquestioned authority of an aviation specialist on this site, when it is infuriated by Internet specialists, it can be a little straightforward, but it is justified in my opinion. I would also be a naughty brow who got me the phrase 2x2 = 5 hi
                      5. Constantine
                        Constantine 15 June 2013 18: 57 New
                        11
                        Do you even understand the reason for this dispute? The point was that the VAF said that India was leaving Pak Fa, gave a link to the article, but not a word about it in the article. It is generally polarized differently.

                        Here is the article: http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/paris-air-show/2013-06-13/indian-home-gro

                        wn-amca-alternative-fgfa

                        There is an excellent expression that the authority of truth must be put higher than the truth of authority. This was actually done. Apparently, pride was hurt, because it’s not a good idea to point a guru to mistakes.

                        In any case, this is not getting the phrase 2x2 = 5, but an indication that the answer is rather 4 and there is an error.

                        With a non-disclosure subscription, in the case of the T-50, I absolutely agree with one of the commentators. Whatever circles you are into, entering the specifics of the project, even to an old friend, is treason to the motherland and violation of the subscription. Nobody knows who, to whom and what can merge if competently someone puts pressure on pain points. Hence my conclusion that there can be no exclusive information in the VAF that is not accessible to ordinary people. Even ordinary pilots, near the T-50, were not standing, and those who flew on it kept their mouths shut. This was followed by an opus about coolness and access to TsAGI, etc. Either this is an attempt to recoup at the expense of authority, or it smells of a criminal article. I don’t think that such a “professional” of verbal battles would have made a mistake and said too much in public.

                        Regarding the specialist to infuriate. I am a researcher and almost a candidate of science in the field of intellectual property and its commercialization. Based on this part of my activity, I communicate with many interesting people who are related to various interesting industries. There is a practice when specialists give lectures, share experiences, etc. But I keep myself in control and do not tell everyone who understands my topic worse than me that they are, and I am smart. This is a matter of professional ethics.

                        Regarding this statement:
                        Constantine - offended insignificant creature that no one stands

                        Someone is always behind everyone, however, to use a resource in an attack is not a thankful and righteous thing. Everyone should be responsible for their own words and defend themselves independently until the moment when the situation can become critical and the time has come, having pulled out trump cards and bring in heavy artillery. If you think otherwise, then it is your right, but I act as I see fit. If I do not consider it necessary to flaunt my connections, access levels and merit, then this means that I simply do not need it. The time when I did this has already passed.

                        So, understand the situation before making loud statements.
                      6. experienced
                        experienced 15 June 2013 19: 02 New
                        -6
                        Quote: Constantine
                        Do you even understand the reason for this dispute?

                        Forum users go to this thread to read about the plane, and not about who offended you and otminusovat winked
                        For clarification of relations with the opponent there is a PM hi
                        I didn’t like the fact that you began to be rude, that’s why I interjected, as well my comment was made so that you knew that not bots and clones minus you, but specific forum users, this is where I finish my educational activity smile
                      7. Constantine
                        Constantine 15 June 2013 19: 16 New
                        +8
                        I do not deny that for everything that happens to me, in one form or another, I always bear responsibility, but I do not need to be made extreme. I hope you understand my position, as I do yours. On this and finish. hi
                  2. viktorR
                    viktorR 18 June 2013 12: 18 New
                    +6
                    I understand everything ... You protect your friend, but in this situation, Waf (with all due respect to him) is not right, and Konstantin, although he is excessively offended by Waf, is right that Waf is sometimes unjustly rude to his interlocutors and switches to personality. Well, about the article about the Indians, he is all the same right.
                  3. Containers
                    Containers 20 June 2013 01: 42 New
                    0
                    About the article about Indians, vaf is completely wrong. his statements have no confirmation in the text of the article.
                2. Containers
                  Containers 20 June 2013 01: 39 New
                  0
                  vaf lied. did not admit a lie. war of karma began.
            2. Containers
              Containers 20 June 2013 01: 38 New
              0
              vaf lied. and is he a respected person? business ...
              Konstantin looks an order, or even two, of a more adequate person.
          2. VAF
            VAF 15 June 2013 14: 22 New
            -7
            Quote: Constantine
            How many bots do you need so that they so abruptly minus in your profile, without leaving your opinion, as well as win Vaf already Marshal? : D I think a lot.


            This is what people do at Horns and Hooves (this is a characteristic of your venture)!
            What .. on pride hits hard ... already foam appeared. like a shampoo, for "minors" wassat

            What to minus you .... to show that you are stupid? you don’t have to go that far .. the day before yesterday you tried to argue with Pupyrchaty and ... everything will become clear with you ..... they wanted to become a dove ... it didn’t work out ... be an eternal wet chicken!

            And if the minus signified nothing to you. Then you would not have raised this ... "stink"!

            So go better .. get involved in a "ride on the ears" somewhere else, well, or on another article ... "where people get it all" and maybe money .. sponsors ... suckers haven’t yet transferred ..... you are our venture !!! wassat
          3. piotr534
            piotr534 19 June 2013 18: 05 New
            +3
            What to minus you .... to show that you are stupid? you don’t have to go that far .. the day before yesterday you tried to argue with Pupyrchaty and ... everything will become clear with you ..... they wanted to become a dove ... it didn’t work out ... be an eternal wet chicken!
            It just amazes how much, an authoritative, knowledgeable person can turn out to be a mongrel and a boor. And people who are trying to put up a “wafa” in this case, white and fluffy would like to be reminded of objectivity. hi
        3. Botanologist
          Botanologist 15 June 2013 14: 23 New
          +2
          minus you from me.
          I explain:
          1. You do not answer the questions of the Veteran.
          2. you are hinting that only Mount Everest is cooler than you, without confirming it in any way.
          3. you go to flood.

          either start writing constructively, or request
        4. Constantine
          Constantine 15 June 2013 14: 25 New
          +7
          Respond to outright trolling? Well, if you like to fight back when you are humiliated, then please. I do not subscribe to these things.
        5. Botanologist
          Botanologist 15 June 2013 16: 42 New
          -4
          Quote: Constantine
          Respond to outright trolling?


          And you write specific facts, and no one will touch you. You start to lower the person who is really in the subject. And it all boils down to “I don’t believe”, “give me the link” ... Visit the air base, talk to the flyers, feel the plane, and then omit anyone you want - you will have FACTS. And just so la la ...?
        6. Constantine
          Constantine 15 June 2013 18: 33 New
          +9
          Read the article on the basis of which he made allegations that India is leaving the PAK FA project.
        7. Constantine
          Constantine 15 June 2013 19: 32 New
          +7
          In my opinion, lowering was applicable to me. If you read the article, and then compared it with the opinion of my opponent, then you yourself would have understood what it was about. In other words, I didn’t affirm anything, but only thought, except for a single case, when I read an article, this article itself refuted the opinion based on it.

          Quote: Botanologist
          Visit the airbase, talk to the flyers, feel the plane, and then drop it down as you like - you will have FACTS. And just so la la ...?


          And who, interestingly, will let me in to this air base, where there are prototype aircraft, whose characteristics are classified, and the level of technology used in them is available only to two countries? Are you laughing My thoughts regarding compliance with the rules on non-disclosure of data that affect the country's defense and treason, if disclosed, I shared above.
  2. Avenger711
    Avenger711 15 June 2013 15: 00 New
    +6
    I already caught him several times on information about which there is no information in the public domain. Closed for that and closed that only those who work on the project know. Obviously, one person even close to the aircraft cannot know what’s with the guns on the Ka-52, how the T-50 is tested, or anything else.

    But there is such a peculiarity among those who stood nearby, unlike professionals, they think that they know everything, and every lousy sergeant thinks himself to be a general, although a civilian amateur may know even more than he, but he would never dare to point out to the generals.
  3. Botanologist
    Botanologist 15 June 2013 16: 47 New
    -3
    Quote: Avenger711
    Obviously, one person even close to aviation cannot know what’s with the guns on the Ka-52, and how the T-50 tests go,


    Pilots know about each aircraft that goes out of construction, and where it will be identified. And what is inside it. You do not forget - in our sad times, the plane became a piece piece ... crying
    And if a professional - his colleagues will tell him everything without open sources. After all, this is a common cause - defense capability. And here the editorial from Pravda wave is somehow inappropriate. Fly and shoot the pilot, and not look from the ground "like a helicopter flew beautifully." There is a difference?

    although a civilian lover may know even more than him,

    when a civilian amateur flies a couple of times over MANPADS and hits the target, then let him reason. In the meantime, it's a chatter.
  4. Avenger711
    Avenger711 15 June 2013 18: 31 New
    +7
    Colleagues give non-disclosure subscriptions, and don’t need to know everything about everything here.
  5. Avenger711
    Avenger711 15 June 2013 15: 00 New
    0
    What about karma?
  6. Botanologist
    Botanologist 15 June 2013 14: 20 New
    0
    Quote: Constantine
    At the same time, you do not even have a clue about my knowledge, as well as about my levels of access to all kinds of people and organizations.


    The concept of knowledge will be when you show them.

    Quote: Constantine
    Recognizing that you are inadequate, rude and rude, you acknowledge that your words are water.


    Well, with the manipulations it's not here. This is real for Chubais.
  7. piotr534
    piotr534 19 June 2013 17: 36 New
    +1

    5. You are constantly trying to humiliate others for reasons known to you and for reasons completely incomprehensible. Call allegorically everyone, and exalt yourself, .. well, how to say. Rather, it is a kind of inferiority complex that is related to you in life outside the monitor. These are your problems, but pouring this bile on others is a stupid and ungrateful occupation. Again, this way you only discredit yourself. Normal and adequate people try to tactfully explain, rather than humiliate those who know less.
    good good good
  • Constantine
    Constantine 14 June 2013 22: 18 New
    18
    Do not misunderstand me. As regards this particular machine, you cannot have unique knowledge that accompanies the unique experience of communicating directly with the device. Everything that you know about Pak-Fa can be unambiguously known by any of the readers of this article. To boast that you are a guru is at least not correct.
    1. Prishtina
      Prishtina 15 June 2013 00: 05 New
      +4
      To boast that you are a guru is at least not correct.


      You're right. The “Guru” was a bit wrong with the forum, with all due respect to VO, here people have a topic on such projects as PAK FA “the cat cried.” a "guru" with his porridge in his head needs to try his luck in Paralai or Adventure ... but I'm afraid the guy will be technically screwed into the ear and at the same time into the brain an informative list that he will process with his brain OS for more than one week laughing
      1. VAF
        VAF 15 June 2013 00: 44 New
        -4
        Quote: Prishtina
        Here, people are talking about projects such as PAK FA "The Cat Cried." a "guru" with his porridge in his head needs to try his luck in Paralai or Adventure ... but I'm afraid the guy will be technically screwed into the ear and at the same time into the brain an informative list that he will process with his brain OS for more than one week


        Another adviser ???? I won’t even "get in touch" ..... "blah blah blah specialist"!
        Himself no one to call ..... but there too ... a sting sawing! angry
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 15 June 2013 00: 58 New
          +3
          You don’t have the feeling that they’re deliberately dragging out with a fine-tuning in order to be able to export existing aircraft?
          1. VAF
            VAF 15 June 2013 01: 25 New
            0
            Quote: Spade
            that they’re deliberately dragging


            Here, definitely not, because the car is new. all the "bells and whistles" on it are new .. sea (one OT is worth what). therefore Khryapa on the M-2 and everything .. can’t continue, but ours .. for the small one on Mach 3 did not jump out!

            Well, the fact that money is being pulled from the Indians ... so it always has been like this with us ... unfortunately! +! request
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 15 June 2013 01: 35 New
              +1
              Though it pleases.
        2. Constantine
          Constantine 15 June 2013 09: 57 New
          +1
          Do you even understand that you yourself are discrediting such an attitude towards others? )))
    2. VAF
      VAF 15 June 2013 00: 40 New
      -4
      Quote: Constantine
      As regards this particular machine, you cannot have unique knowledge that accompanies the unique experience of communicating directly with the device.


      This is only for people associated with a scam, for the people the beautiful word "venture" can have such a narrow thinking !!!

      And do not think about it. that I still go directly to the LII, the TsAGI, and the GNIKI ???

      Quote: Constantine
      unequivocally any of the readers of this article may know.


      Yeah ... I read .... I have to go stock up on toilet paper tomorrow, otherwise all Amers and NATO will urgently buy it from us in the market ... after all, they don’t have enough for themselves .. because. all..obar ..... according to the opinion expressed by your "any readers" !! wassat

      Quote: Constantine
      To boast that you are a guru is at least not correct.


      I don’t understand at all? If I know, then it means I’m boasting ???? Dear .. something your "risky" projects completely clouded your brains ??? wassat

      Those. call me a fool, that's in the order of things. and when I take you in the same way ... it's .. lowering ... venture ideas and high technology wassat laughing out loud!
      1. Constantine
        Constantine 15 June 2013 10: 00 New
        +4
        You are a clown. If you keep track of events, it will be clear as a day. On the face of the substitution of concepts, the transition to stupid trolling. Cheap show-offs, camping, an integral part of you))
      2. alexng
        alexng 19 June 2013 13: 04 New
        0
        Hello, Sergey! hi You do not be offended by such a reaction part of the members of the forum. Simply, some people perceive the list of shortcomings as criticism, and not as an excuse to eliminate these shortcomings. Of course? ideal systems do not exist in nature, there are always pros and cons. The only pity is that usually everything that is discussed is taken literally without adjustments for error. And for myself, as a mathematician-integrator, I have long concluded that what is here and now is true, and what has passed or will be false. But to make plans and go to the goal you always need to be purposeful, keeping focus on the goal itself, but without harming those nearby.
        And now I would like to quote the famous cartoon: - "Guys, let's live together." drinks
  • Containers
    Containers 20 June 2013 01: 33 New
    0
    There is not a word about the rejection of the T-50. There about "we will develop our own"
  • Vadivak
    Vadivak 14 June 2013 20: 47 New
    +7
    Quote: vaf
    Less .... fellow. It will be more useful!

    That's all you know

    As part of the campaign to increase the number of latrines in India, the mothers of Indian girls are demanding that the suitors equip the future “family nest” with a normal toilet before getting married. The slogans "No toilet - no bride" appear in Indian villages.
    1. VAF
      VAF 14 June 2013 21: 34 New
      +9
      Quote: Vadivak
      That's all you know


      And what to do Vadim wink .... someone needs soldier .. carry the rational, drinks and then such as the Avengers 711 and others in general all the brains of the people who still have them .. powder! wassat

  • DEfindER
    DEfindER 14 June 2013 11: 58 New
    +1
    Quote: jungler
    Yes. Apparently a good car. Unclear lope costs? those. what will the taxpayer cost? And how much will the army be able to order?

    Well, it’s not in vain that ours is developing this bird together with the Indians, and the costs are less and it will pay off in part .. It was surprising that the plane itself can return to base if the pilot was cut down, I don’t think that Western cars are capable of this ..
    1. Retx
      Retx 14 June 2013 12: 09 New
      0
      With the Indians, we are developing another unit for export.
    2. soldier's grandson
      soldier's grandson 14 June 2013 13: 12 New
      +3
      and the pilot can leave the plane and return to base independently
      1. Phantom Revolution
        Phantom Revolution 14 June 2013 16: 30 New
        +1
        Quote: soldier's grandson
        and the pilot can leave the plane and return to base independently

        Who can return to the base of the pilot?) What is this new such function?) laughing
        1. Avenger711
          Avenger711 14 June 2013 18: 10 New
          +1
          Kicking. Left, right.
          1. KuzmichDP
            KuzmichDP 14 June 2013 21: 23 New
            0
            Quote: Avenger711
            Kicking. Left, right.

            And waving his ears ....
    3. helix
      helix 14 June 2013 15: 46 New
      +7
      This option (return to base) was implemented on the Ka-52 even earlier.
      1. VAF
        VAF 14 June 2013 17: 52 New
        +4
        Quote: helix
        This option (return to base) was implemented on the Ka-52 even earlier.


        This, as you put it, “option” was and is. implemented on all IA and IBA aircraft equipped with RSBN-6S!
        Return mode! Press the button + self-propelled guns and ..... on the KPM + two approach to 180g in the machine and on the glide path .. up to the alignment height (3-5 meters) !!!
        True Ore, the chassis and mechanization (wing and flaps) is on you! wink
    4. VAF
      VAF 14 June 2013 16: 40 New
      +2
      Quote: DEfindER
      Well, it’s not in vain that our people are developing this bird together with the Indians, and the costs are less and they will pay off partially ..


      lol

      The fact that India is still continuing to develop AMCA suggests that New Delhi has some concerns about the FGFA. recourse



      Air Marshal Norman Anil Kumar Browne said that due to India’s late participation in the FGFA program, which is being developed on the basis of the Russian T-50 PAKFA fighter, it will be difficult to organize work in a proportion of 50/50. request

      There are also “some fears” regarding Russian technologies in certain areas. sad

      In particular, the T-50 prototype gliders are still characterized by a large proportion of metals, which reflects the “gaps and shortcomings” in the creation of composite materials (CM) by Sukhoi. request
      1. unclevad
        unclevad 14 June 2013 17: 33 New
        +9
        That's for sure! The proportion of metals is large, especially parts made of single-crystal titanium. Amer remains to lick his lips. We deliver finished parts to civilians.
        1. VAF
          VAF 14 June 2013 17: 55 New
          0
          Quote: unclevad
          For civil we supply them


          That's it...WE THEM.... a. to myself! lol I don’t ask about civilians .. you understand why, but what kind of military? wink
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. TSOOBER
        TSOOBER 14 June 2013 19: 59 New
        +6
        dear waf -Hello !!! As always, you sow a reasonable, good eternal! But didn’t you correct the situation with composites but the T-50? they’ll go to the maximum (in the sense of composites and everything seems to be okay there) and about the fact that India went into refusal somehow didn’t slip (where did the firewood come from bully ) Please enlighten, otherwise advertising articles and plots do not inspire confidence! Yes, if it's not a secret bully then when the fifth roll out! Yes, and I'm sorry for the impudence that is heard on the MIGs when they already sign the contract repeat ?
        1. VAF
          VAF 14 June 2013 21: 14 New
          +1
          Quote: TSOOBER
          Hello!!! As always, you sow a reasonable, good eternal!


          Hello my friend! You ask questions that I won’t answer yet, okay bully you understand why!
          Read the comments above. I answered the phantom of the revolution. There really is news about the test results, and not this .. the "hat" of the girl then hurried!
          There, I really have a reason to fellow .
          According to the idea above gave a link .. read!
          Five will be around the end of summer!
          In almost instantly!
          Everything .. went for a walk with the dog, but then in general .. I was held here! drinks
          1. TSOOBER
            TSOOBER 14 June 2013 21: 46 New
            0
            Thank you! Visit the site more often what very sad without specialists
      4. ed65b
        ed65b 14 June 2013 23: 05 New
        +1
        Well, of course, the Indians have the same thing, and we buy them tanks and planes and submarines. where are we retarded to them.
    5. Avenger711
      Avenger711 14 June 2013 18: 09 New
      +5
      Buran did this in 1987.
      1. DEfindER
        DEfindER 14 June 2013 22: 07 New
        -1
        Buran was a breakthrough in automation, even with a lag in the element base, our engineers were able to solve such a problem. Surely in the t-50 similar algorithms are used.
  • Soup227
    Soup227 14 June 2013 12: 15 New
    -4
    as always for myself with a gulkin nose and on the left as needed. there the traders sit and decide that they don’t need to decide and don’t trust
  • w.ebdo.g
    w.ebdo.g 14 June 2013 13: 08 New
    10
    Ay, yes, good news!
    nevertheless, in aircraft construction our school is THE BEST IN THE WORLD !!!
    three times URA-URA-URA !!!
    I wish you all a good mood.

    for reference:
    The use of all types of stealth technology can dramatically reduce the EPR of aircraft, including the largest. For example, the EPR of the strategic bomber B-52 is about 100 square meters. m., but already at B-1B, this value was reduced to 1 square. m. EPR F-117 was between 0,01 and 0,001 square meters. m

    The detection range of the aircraft is proportional to the square root of the EPR value. For example, if a radar is capable of detecting a target with an EPR of 10 square meters. m at a distance of 100 miles, then the target with an EPR of 5 square meters. m will be detected only at a distance of 84 miles. Target with EPR 1 sq. m will be detected at a range of only 55 miles. Thus, a 99% reduction in EPR reduces the detection range by 45%. Reducing the EPR by 1000 times will reduce the detection range by 82%.

    The magnitude of the EPR of some types of aircraft and missiles.

    B-52 - 100 square meters. m

    F-4, A-10 - 25 square meters. m

    B-1B - 1 sq. m

    Tornado - 8 sq. M. m

    MiG-21 - 3 square meters. m

    MiG-29 - 5 square meters. m

    F-16C, F-18C - 1,2 sq. m

    Gripen - 0,1 sq. m

    Eurofighter - 0,25-0,75 sq.m.

    Exocet, Harpoon - 0,1 sq. m

    JSF - 0,005 sq. m. (“golf ball size”)

    F-117, B-2, F-22 - from 0,01 to 0, 001 sq. m

    1. alean245
      alean245 14 June 2013 14: 45 New
      +5
      Quote: w.ebdo.g
      The detection range of the aircraft is proportional to the square root of the EPR value.

      In fact, according to the basic equation of radar, the detection range is proportional to the root of the fourth degree of EPR.
    2. Alekseev
      Alekseev 14 June 2013 19: 36 New
      +5
      Is the ESR the same for all wavelengths?
      Or how?
      Who defined this parameter?
      EPR is not secret data?
      Again, an article on the internet?
      Vague doubts torment that everything is very unstable in determining the EPR. wink
      Persistent rumors are that “edge effects”, reflections and rereflections from constructive “angles”, diffraction and interference of electromagnetic waves, conditions for the propagation of an electric charge on an irradiated surface, and other tricky effects contribute to the formation of a specific EPR value. The ESR of real objects, such as airplanes, with a small change in the angle of exposure or with a seemingly insignificant correction of the wavelength of the probe radiation can easily change by orders of magnitude."
      1. Odysseus
        Odysseus 14 June 2013 22: 45 New
        0
        Quote: Alekseev
        Is the ESR the same for all wavelengths?
        Or how?
        Who defined this parameter?
        EPR is not secret data?

        I believe this refers to the cm-range, the angle +/- 1/4, and without pendants.
        The magnitude of the EPR is finite, secret. But there is something to be said about aircraft already actively participating in the database and / or long armed.
        The numbers are given here, IMHO, quite plausible. The truth is not for all aircraft))
    3. Tartary
      Tartary 15 June 2013 02: 11 New
      +2
      Quote: w.ebdo.g
      JSF - 0,005 sq. m. (“golf ball size”)

      The other day there was an article about "Don-2N", which sees smaller balls in Earth orbit ...

      And about the range below you back questions for filling ...
  • the polar
    the polar 14 June 2013 13: 13 New
    +5
    Quote: jungler
    Yes. Apparently a good car. Unclear lope costs? those. what will the taxpayer cost? And how much will the army be able to order?

    And for this it is only necessary to legislatively restore in industry and commerce such an indicator as the cost of production, and also introduce the maximum level of profit, and the tariff schedule of annual salaries and bonuses for "effective managers". Stop tearing and grabbing, it's time to start working. And it is necessary to restore the system of State Banks with a normal margin for lending to the military-industrial complex.
  • tronin.maxim
    tronin.maxim 14 June 2013 14: 14 New
    +5
    Quote: jungler
    Yes. Apparently a good car. Unclear lope costs? those. what will the taxpayer cost? And how much will the army be able to order?

    It is clearly cheaper than a raptor, but the price for us taxpayers is the second thing, the main thing is that he went into the series for our army! It’s not a pity to throw off such a plane! smile
  • RUSSIA 2013
    RUSSIA 2013 14 June 2013 15: 07 New
    +4
    Here's the news, so the news. Eh would be quick in a series, but more. In one word, GOOD FELLOWS.
  • Nick
    Nick 14 June 2013 20: 42 New
    +1
    Quote: jungler
    Yes. Apparently a good car. Unclear lope costs? those. what will the taxpayer cost? And how much will the army be able to order?

    In fact of the matter! What will be the order! The larger the series, the lower the cost of a unit of production ... It was planned that the cost of one copy will fit into 100-110 million $
  • Simon
    Simon 14 June 2013 21: 46 New
    0
    Of course it will be cheaper to cost than advanced Europeans and Americans will create such a plane.
  • Semen Semyonitch
    Semen Semyonitch 15 June 2013 00: 25 New
    0
    Quote: jungler
    Yes. Apparently a good car. Unclear lope costs? those. what will the taxpayer cost? And how much will the army be able to order?

    One at all, we will not stand for the price))) Rather, how much is the defense industry capable of producing?
  • Harakternik
    Harakternik 15 June 2013 03: 23 New
    0
    Your question is not correct about the value to the taxpayer, since it can cost his life and life is priceless, and not all taxpayers pay taxes so that if they don’t whine, then during the war they themselves will go to the machine for crusting bread a day
  • marat1000
    marat1000 28 September 2013 09: 09 New
    0
    Buy up to 2020-60 pieces. Who writes that NATO will have a nervous tick, this is stupid, they have thousands of such machines (albeit a bit worse). Do not make people laugh
  • Mizhgan
    Mizhgan 14 June 2013 10: 46 New
    +5
    Only beautiful planes fly well. Tupolev A.N
    I don’t know about you, but I really like it externally ... And the declared characteristics are simply impressive.

    I would also add: "Beauty will save the world"
  • experienced
    experienced 14 June 2013 10: 46 New
    18
    The 5th generation Russian aircraft not only surpassed its foreign counterparts in terms of parameters,

    possesses artificial intelligence

    Most characteristics of the fighter are kept secret. The only thing that is approved by the designers, many parameters of the PAK-FA surpass the American fifth-generation aircraft Raptor F-22.

    Only these phrases alarmed me alone? I want to believe that it will turn out a really good car, and not another "unparalleled" one, which will be worse than anyone and everyone, but after 15 years it will release 2 cars a year.
    In Soviet times, without loud shouts and a statement, the equipment was put into operation and all the “bullshit” from the technical characteristics of these machines only when some Belenko stole Japan or flew over Israel with impunity
    1. Atrix
      Atrix 14 June 2013 11: 09 New
      +1
      The promising front-line aviation complex T-50 is an aircraft capable of performing any task intended for both a fighter, and for an attack aircraft and a bomber. The fifth generation fighter is invisible to enemy radars, has a speed of more than 2500 km / h and possesses artificial intelligence. The aircraft is able to perform complex operations that were previously impossible without pilot intervention.

      Can I talk to him heart to heart? It seems that the authors of this article have embellished as always. Reminiscent of cheap TV shop ads.
      Most characteristics of the fighter are kept secret. The only thing that is approved by the designers, many parameters of the PAK-FA surpass the American fifth-generation aircraft Raptor F-22. The speed of the Russian aircraft is more than 500 km / h, the weight of the structure is less, and the flight duration is much higher. In addition, the T-50 is more maneuverable compared to the American fighter

      But on the F-22 developers flocked enough that I know all his secrets or they took it from Wikipedia.
      And in general, something seems to me that not one Developer is not good at such articles, but they continue to work on PAK-FA. And all this is written by a person far from PAK-FA and all of this program.
    2. the polar
      the polar 14 June 2013 13: 30 New
      +1
      Quote: seasoned
      The 5th generation Russian aircraft not only surpassed its foreign counterparts in terms of parameters,

      possesses artificial intelligence

      Most characteristics of the fighter are kept secret. The only thing that is approved by the designers, many parameters of the PAK-FA surpass the American fifth-generation aircraft Raptor F-22.

      Only these phrases alarmed me alone? I want to believe that it will turn out a really good car, and not another "unparalleled" one, which will be worse than anyone and everyone, but after 15 years it will release 2 cars a year.

      In fact, from the Soviet times there is a unique reserve of developments in automatic control systems. I hope no one has forgotten the flight of the Buran in fully automatic mode and landing on the airfield with a crosswind of 20 m / s.
      When approaching the landing strip, the automation processed the real meteorological parameters, introduced wind corrections and brought the Buran to the second circle, put it on the strip at the given points of touch and mileage. So the software for the T-50 AI was developed not from scratch and not from scratch.
  • neri73-r
    neri73-r 14 June 2013 10: 46 New
    +4
    God forbid, the main thing is not to jinx it!
  • Smersh
    Smersh 14 June 2013 10: 48 New
    +2
    Well done our designers, a great plane!
  • Kair501
    Kair501 14 June 2013 10: 50 New
    12

    watch the video I haven’t seen such a maneuver in my life even in science fiction films
    1. B_KypTke
      B_KypTke 14 June 2013 10: 57 New
      +4
      And what is unusual in a flat corkscrew? Recently, even our likely "friends" have mastered this figure.
    2. Geokingxnumx
      Geokingxnumx 14 June 2013 11: 08 New
      +2
      Quote: Kair501
      watch the video I haven’t seen such a maneuver in my life even in science fiction films

      I was also surprised, but then I looked well and it’s a flat corkscrew

      I think that a great and beautiful "car" T-50))
    3. Lord of the Sith
      Lord of the Sith 14 June 2013 15: 16 New
      0
      This video needs to be attached to the news)
    4. gradient
      gradient 14 June 2013 16: 33 New
      0
      This maneuver is called a flat corkscrew :-))) I saw at the deuce, who does it in the video, in the ass a conical fairing? This is an anti-stop parachute. And without it, this maneuver is highly discouraged. Even Bogdan. I’m generally silent about the combat pilot.
      1. Zlodeey
        Zlodeey 14 June 2013 17: 06 New
        0
        If the video doesn’t make it difficult, it’s very interesting to watch the video, the first time I see it)))
      2. VAF
        VAF 14 June 2013 17: 39 New
        +2
        Quote: Gradient
        I saw a deuce, who does it in the video, in the ass conical fairing? This is an anti-stop parachute.


        So yes, that's just at 051, not at 052 .. that's it .. just in case wink
    5. Capt.stryker
      Capt.stryker 14 June 2013 19: 43 New
      0
      Quote: Kair501
      watch the video I haven’t seen such a maneuver in my life even in science fiction films


      THERE IS NOTHING fantastic in this maneuver !!! This is a banal flat corkscrew! If you haven’t read the comments from the very beginning, and didn’t see the links to this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qmIQAOG789E
      in which the F-16 is spinning the same way, and that's almost 20 years ago!
    6. itkul
      itkul 14 June 2013 21: 34 New
      +2
      Quote: Kair501
      watch the video I haven’t seen such a maneuver in my life even in science fiction films


      Even the old Yak-52 can do such a maneuver.

      1. screw cutter
        screw cutter 14 June 2013 12: 37 New
        +2
        Yes, at least the fact that F22 is afraid of rain and above 7 thousand is not allowed to fly. This is already enough.
      2. The comment was deleted.
        1. 11 black
          11 black 14 June 2013 14: 10 New
          +1
          Quote: Milafon
          Compare it to the American F-35

          Incorrectly different "weight" categories. It is necessary to compare with the F-22 "Raptor".
          But for the F-35 we need to create a single-engine fighter of the 5 generation and it is desirable to call it MiG-39. smile

          I beg you - this wunderwafel and the moment 35 will tear to shreds, and t50 the speediest production of a series of clear skies ...
        2. NickitaDembelnulsa
          NickitaDembelnulsa 14 June 2013 14: 24 New
          0
          Yes, I don’t understand why the F-35 is a fifth-generation fighter, because only stealth is its only parameter. Does he have super maneuverability. Even India believes that our Su-30MKI surpasses the F-35 in combat capabilities. But one cannot argue with the possibility of vertical take-off. This is really cool and helpful.
          1. Slevinst
            Slevinst 14 June 2013 14: 34 New
            +2
            supersonic speed without afterburner
            1. NickitaDembelnulsa
              NickitaDembelnulsa 14 June 2013 16: 07 New
              0
              Well, that is a given. But the rest is that. 4 ++ is the maximum.
          2. theadenter
            theadenter 14 June 2013 19: 17 New
            +1
            Vertical takeoff eats up a bunch of fuel, which greatly limits the flight time.
      3. Odysseus
        Odysseus 14 June 2013 17: 10 New
        +2
        Quote: Sergey Poles
        Compare it to the American F-35

        Alas, while this is completely impossible to do.
        To do this, you need to know the real value of the EPR, the characteristics of the radar, BKO and weapons.
        And this is all secret. Approximately this can only be done after the T-50 and F-35 are exported, and that is, with some reservations.
        Purely hypothetically, it can be assumed that the T-50 will yield to the F-35 in terms of EPR, and in the capabilities of electronic warfare (this is our old weakness), clearly surpassing the LTH. We are still inferior in terms of weapon characteristics, but there are new developments ...
        It is completely impossible to talk about comparing radar capabilities.
    7. Mizhgan
      Mizhgan 14 June 2013 10: 56 New
      0
      Sorry, I gave the wrong link
      I wanted this one
      http://supercoolpics.com/2013/06/01/%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B8%D0%B5-%D0%B1%
      D1%83%D0%B4%D1%83%D1%89%D0%B5%D0%B3%D0%BE-%D0%BF%D0%B0%D0%BA-%D1%84%D0%B0/
    8. White
      White 14 June 2013 10: 59 New
      +1
      And who knows what’s there with the four, like it should have been flying for a long time?
      1. Russ69
        Russ69 14 June 2013 15: 46 New
        +1
        Quote: White
        And who knows what’s there with the four, like it should have been flying for a long time?

        In the second half of the year should start flying. It seems they already want to test weapons on it.
      2. TSOOBER
        TSOOBER 14 June 2013 15: 48 New
        +5
        four flies for a long time! But the fifth one does not roll out everything - (VAF - wrote that because of the radar, and the glider has long been ready)
    9. For the Motherland
      For the Motherland 14 June 2013 11: 11 New
      +3
      Beautiful plane !!!!!!!!! Like its predecessors, it means it will fly beautifully
    10. nikolas 83
      nikolas 83 14 June 2013 11: 14 New
      +2
      It’s definitely faster to launch into production and a lot of troops. And do not sell 10-15 years to anyone.
    11. bulvas
      bulvas 14 June 2013 11: 15 New
      +8
      He would not remain an exhibit for the Kunstkamera, if they were to supply 6 pieces a year - no super features would help
    12. The comment was deleted.
    13. Dawn
      Dawn 14 June 2013 11: 34 New
      0
      Handsome, he would still have the opportunity to enter the Earth orbit.
      1. bulvas
        bulvas 14 June 2013 11: 40 New
        +3
        then it’s definitely not up to the army
      2. escobar
        escobar 14 June 2013 19: 24 New
        0
        ORT will tell you about this in the next issue))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
    14. pensioner
      pensioner 14 June 2013 11: 42 New
      +7
      Quote: jungler
      Unclear lope costs?

      Yes, do not care how much. It is necessary !!
    15. cyclist
      cyclist 14 June 2013 12: 16 New
      0
      here you can please the child, let him admire, he will be proud of the country! and so there are more questions than answers. Will this creation be sold as usual to China or India, where their craftsmen will take apart our super fighter in cogs, How many of them are planned for Russian troops there put?! Will there be enough pilots for this machine? The Germans also designed rockets during World War II, and technologies in the USA and the USSR leaked
    16. pensioner
      pensioner 14 June 2013 12: 24 New
      0
      Quote: cyclist
      The Germans also designed rockets during World War II, and technology in the USA and the USSR leaked


      As the English flowed away wept. Yes, and chased them to shit. And the fact that they have leaked is not so good to lose the war.
      1. cyclist
        cyclist 14 June 2013 12: 28 New
        0
        I’m saying clearly more questions, well, I’ll add one more reason why they didn’t do it in the USA before, like 15 years, and ours just did it now? Is it possible for “effective managers” to pay
        1. dmit-xnumx
          dmit-xnumx 14 June 2013 16: 36 New
          0
          to the cyclist - Try to remember what state Russia was in - financial, political, and the question itself will disappear.
    17. Kowalsky
      Kowalsky 14 June 2013 12: 25 New
      +2
      Quote: bulvas
      Handsome, he would still have the opportunity to enter the Earth orbit.


      This is one of the points that fall under the definition of "secret information" :)
    18. pakfa-t-50
      pakfa-t-50 14 June 2013 12: 44 New
      +1
      Really direct pride in this plane, as soon as possible in a series !!!!!
    19. soldier's grandson
      soldier's grandson 14 June 2013 13: 14 New
      -1
      good goods for sales, while we wave a simple Kalash
    20. V. Ushakov
      V. Ushakov 14 June 2013 13: 22 New
      0
      You look - you rejoice! Gradually - everything falls into place ...
    21. 128mgb
      128mgb 14 June 2013 13: 25 New
      +2
      Quote: cyclist
      I’m saying clearly more questions, well, I’ll add one more reason why they didn’t do it in the USA before, like 15 years, and ours just did it now? Is it possible for “effective managers” to pay

      Do you remember dear about the defeat in the cold war? Here you have a lag of 20 years. It is a miracle that he is in metal and flies, and not bad. And the plane is really predatory beautiful!
    22. No_more
      No_more 14 June 2013 13: 29 New
      +2
      I’m much more interested in the fate of the new engine for this aircraft. Now he flies with the AL-41F1 (a modernized version of the AL-41F1S, which is put on the Su-35S).
      And the new engine will have to make it possible to go to supersonic without afterburner and have 30% more specific power, nothing more is known. The Lyulka Science and Technology Center promises to start bench testing next year, and to prepare it for production in 2015. But it’s not clear where they are going to produce it, whether production is ready somewhere for such an engine.
      It is also interesting how the new radar showed itself there, and I had no doubt that it would fly beautifully.
      I, as an aviation engineer (although, alas, only by education), I wish more substantial news about this aircraft.
      1. pensioner
        pensioner 14 June 2013 19: 03 New
        +2
        Nothing! You won’t drink education!
        Anyway, in the subject. I envy ...
    23. VladUrich
      VladUrich 14 June 2013 13: 35 New
      +1
      I’m also glad for our T-50, for our creators, engineers, and testers. But in every barrel of honey there is a fly in the ointment. It seems that the Indians will be able to derive considerable benefit from the joint export modification project FGFA T-50, creating their promising AMSA combat aircraft. " friends "the Chinese are copying our technologies, so are the Indians. I won’t be surprised if they remove the cream from a joint project, and later declare its futility ...
      "Military Parity." Despite participating with Russia in the fifth-generation FGFA fighter program, India continues to develop its own promising AMSA combat aircraft, ainonline.com reports June 13.

      The Indian Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO) showed the AMCA prototype (pictured) in Bangalore at Aero India 2013 this February. The aerodynamic shape of the aircraft has undergone changes compared to the model shown at Aero India 2011. The development of AMCA in parallel with the FGFA may indicate that India may consider this project as an alternative to the FGFA.

      When asked about the fate of AMSA, aviation marshal Norman Anil Kumar Browne refused to compare the characteristics of this aircraft with the FGFA, but insisted that the national program should be continued, especially in the field of development of on-board equipment and power plant, " since no one will give us these technologies. ”

      Brown also supported the completion of the LCA Tejas light combat aircraft, which has been under development for 20 years. He said that the initial operational readiness of this aircraft will be achieved at the end of this year, in 2015 it will go into service with the Air Force, but in the final combat configuration this fighter will only appear in 2024 with the creation of the Tejas Mk.2 modification.

      It is likely that AMCA will be equipped with Kaveri engines of national design, which were intended for LCA, but then, due to technical problems and a lag in the development schedule, it was decided at the first stage to equip these fighters with the American turbofan General Electric F404, then its advanced model F414.

      The fact that India is still showing signs of continuing to develop AMCA suggests that New Delhi has some concerns about the FGFA. Brown hinted that due to India’s late participation in the FGFA program, which is being developed on the basis of the Russian T-50 PAKFA fighter, it will be difficult to organize work in a 50/50 ratio. There are also “some fears” regarding Russian technologies in certain areas. In particular, the T-50 prototype gliders are still characterized by a large proportion of metals, which reflects the “gaps and shortcomings” in the creation of composite materials (CM) by Sukhoi. At the same time, the proportion of composites in the LCA glider is 43% (probably, it refers to the CM area of ​​the airframe, and not their weight fraction - approx. “VP”).
      1. evil hamster
        evil hamster 14 June 2013 19: 10 New
        +1
        Quote: VladUrich
        The fact that India is still showing signs of continuing to develop AMCA suggests that New Delhi has some concerns about the FGFA
        Oh, I beg you. Onet Arjun has been developing for 30 years as a result of which they produced a mowing leopardoid, which in no way affected the equipment of their T90 army. You think it’s corruption and nepotism in our country, we have never dreamed of it here.
        1. pensioner
          pensioner 14 June 2013 19: 47 New
          +1
          That's for sure. Worked with the Indians. NIGHTMARE!!
          1. viktorR
            viktorR 18 June 2013 14: 25 New
            0
            I used to work with Hindu code, I thought that all the jokes about Hindu programmers are stories ... How naive I was. But the edge of my patience came when they wanted to send me to a project where the Indians were paid for the amount of code ... it's just a nightmare! Pentacles on BASIC write better! It seems that a million Indians write a program absolutely without knowing the programming language by the selection method, while not particularly reading the TK)))
    24. UFO
      UFO 14 June 2013 13: 43 New
      0
      The troops faster and more! good And also PAK YES, well, what's wrong with him? At what stage? request
    25. vomag
      vomag 14 June 2013 13: 57 New
      +1
      Yes, here it’s a no brainer that no one will give the Indians a new avionics and engine and a glider? If you have your own composites, let them put no, how do you want to put what is there! And we will still process the glider after 5-6 years into an improved one (in any case they didn’t come up with Indians there, it will be an order of magnitude worse than ours. as they usually throw a lot of money into research, they will collect a prototype and he doesn’t fly a bastard !!!) well, again, give me ayah please, but there’s nothing to fly on and all that ... ..
    26. LOCKS
      LOCKS 14 June 2013 15: 05 New
      0
      The indicators are certainly pleasing, do not stand still. But already I want to be surprised at the news that this aircraft began to enter the troops in the required quantity. Well, for example, how konvertoplany amers.
      1. Russ69
        Russ69 14 June 2013 15: 49 New
        +2
        Quote: LOCKS
        The indicators are certainly pleasing, do not stand still. But already I want to be surprised at the news that this aircraft began to enter the troops in the required quantity. Well, for example, how konvertoplany amers.

        If, according to the plan, by 2020, 60 pieces will be transferred to the troops, it will already be good.
    27. 9k72
      9k72 14 June 2013 16: 16 New
      +3
      Perhaps the most advanced at the moment and one of the most beautiful examples of world aircraft.
    28. The comment was deleted.
    29. Black
      Black 14 June 2013 16: 50 New
      +1
      PAK FA surprised creators

      Paraphrasing Vladimir Semenovich
      "life has not yet begun, the sale has begun!"

      Wait and see if the story with the KA-50 repeats itself.
    30. a.hamster55
      a.hamster55 14 June 2013 17: 02 New
      +1
      Well BEAUTIFUL !!! +++++ Even more beautiful than the dream of my childhood IL-14. Keep it up guys!
    31. Capt.stryker
      Capt.stryker 14 June 2013 17: 51 New
      -6
      Quote: vaf
      Quote: berserk1967
      According to the frames shown by Channel One and Vesti, as the T-50 flies,


      Watch more often ... and also Polygon, Star ... and Chapman ... generally will be ..super !!! wassat

      Quote: berserk1967
      amers and NATO members will definitely have a nervous tick


      From what ... from the fact that ours only after 20 years (!!!) came to this ??? request

      Quote: berserk1967
      Not one aircraft in the world is capable of this.


      Never say never!!! Especially if neither ....... you know! soldier


      I absolutely agree with you, on every point!
    32. Capt.stryker
      Capt.stryker 14 June 2013 18: 03 New
      -3
      Quote: vaf
      Quote: Nikolko
      .A Indians plan to buy at $ 100 million


      At present, Indians are going to .... refuse to participate in the project !!!
      Slightly less.... fellow . will be more useful!

      And the Indians are stepping ever wider from cooperation with Russia towards the United States!
      1. poquello
        poquello 14 June 2013 19: 29 New
        +2
        "And the Indians are stepping ever wider from cooperation with Russia towards the United States!"

        And we will not need it soon either, the time when the Americans began to take away our achievements to ourselves with bags. Let the United States think better how its debt economy does not shit. And the Indians themselves step on their eggs stepping from Russia.
    33. sevtrash
      sevtrash 14 June 2013 18: 04 New
      +1
      This is certainly good, but until the completion of not just an airplane, but the entire complex, it still takes time. The engine, locator, sensors, weapons, software, maintenance and its price. And we need to sell it a little more, because the new production aircraft is already an outdated aircraft, and we ourselves need to make a new car with the money we earned, better.
    34. sevtrash
      sevtrash 14 June 2013 18: 04 New
      +1
      This is certainly good, but until the completion of not just an airplane, but the entire complex, it still takes time. The engine, locator, sensors, weapons, software, maintenance and its price. And we need to sell it a little more, because the new production aircraft is already an outdated aircraft, and we ourselves need to make a new car with the money we earned, better.
    35. The comment was deleted.
    36. The comment was deleted.
    37. fisherman
      fisherman 14 June 2013 19: 06 New
      +2
      Even in the case when the pilot is unable to pilot a fighter, the T-50 is able to return to its base and land.

      Here you have the drone good more precisely, his first hypostasis good
    38. fisherman
      fisherman 14 June 2013 19: 07 New
      0
      Even in the case when the pilot is unable to pilot a fighter, the T-50 is able to return to its base and land.

      Here you have the drone good more precisely, his first hypostasis good
    39. Igor39
      Igor39 14 June 2013 20: 21 New
      -2
      I am sure that it was made taking into account intelligence on F 22
    40. escobar
      escobar 14 June 2013 20: 56 New
      +1
      Quote: vaf
      Quote: escobar
      With the worst glider


      It is debatable of course .. if you take it in the complex as an airplane, and not just .. aerodynamic blowdowns! +! wink

      Quote: escobar
      on the super engine


      The same is debatable, because I prefer our “motor” more, and if “they give birth to the second stage” .. then .. there will generally be a song!

      Quote: escobar
      .If you consider that the serial production of f22 began in 2001, this breakthrough deserves respect.


      Here is just +! drinks

      The current engine on the T-50 does not reach the Pratt & Whitney F119, but when it is new, then we will compare it.
      1. VAF
        VAF 14 June 2013 21: 24 New
        +3
        Quote: escobar
        The current engine on the T-50 does not reach the Pratt & Whitney F119


        And here I agree, but as a pilot I always consider the COMPLEX and its BATTLE POSSIBILITIES, and such a beautiful airplane. It’s a beautiful helicopter .... we have enough on our site. Yes, and I looked at them ... when I loaded them .. .200 in bulk in the IL-76th !!
        Do not understand ..children ischo!

        Well, ..drew off, there above read over this comment my answer to YPantom from the Revolution, there is some data from the 1st stage of LCI! bully
        Well, koment itself is a little .. I hope you understand everything!
        Regards +drinks
    41. HAIFISCH
      HAIFISCH 14 June 2013 21: 09 New
      +2
      only in the photo at the beginning of the article is not the t-50 but its concept, we need to take a closer look.
    42. mirag2
      mirag2 14 June 2013 21: 42 New
      +1
      A very nice article, despite no nuances.
    43. reichsmarshal
      reichsmarshal 14 June 2013 21: 53 New
      -4
      Whatever anyone says about PAK FA, he will prove to be the same child prodigy as the Raptor. The F-23 will also not become a full-fledged fifth-generation aircraft, it is only needed to replace the most worn-out aircraft of the fourth generation. In the United States, they understand this, and they are quietly developing a new generation Air Force complex based on shock hypersonic UAVs and even automatic drones. Piloted aircraft and all sorts of Hartman-Kozheduba-Epstein in this regard after 5-4. they will depart to the field of history, just as knights on horseback have gone in the past. Pogosyan, having drank the money, will leave for the USA, and Russia will be left without 2025th-generation aircraft (since now already 2026/4 of the MiG-2 and Su-3 are museum exhibits unusable for flight), but with a dozen PAK FAs, which the Air Force NATO is easily bombarded with new drones. Tales about the ability to intercept control is not necessary!
      1. Avenger711
        Avenger711 15 June 2013 14: 50 New
        -1
        Oh well. Given that up to genuine UAVs to humanity, as before landing on Pluto.
    44. not good
      not good 14 June 2013 21: 54 New
      +1
      I would very much like that our leadership had the sanity not to sell PAK-FA over a hill until they fully equip their aircraft.
    45. darksoul
      darksoul 14 June 2013 21: 54 New
      0
      Quote: berserk1967
      In the frames shown by Channel One and Vesti, as T-50 flies, Amers and NATO members will definitely have a nervous tick. Not one aircraft in the world is capable of this.


      I support, what was shown in the news was simply delighted ... just a class, a nervous tick is surely provided to Americans, just as they are not trying to turn into a world gigimon, it's not so simple
    46. ssergn
      ssergn 14 June 2013 21: 58 New
      0
      Quote: Polar
      And for this it is only necessary to legislatively restore in industry and commerce such an indicator as the cost of production, and also introduce the maximum level of profit, and the tariff schedule of annual salaries and bonuses for "effective managers". Stop tearing and grabbing, it's time to start working. And it is necessary to restore the system of State Banks with a normal margin for lending to the military-industrial complex.


      You are probably off topic.

      1. Cost, rate of return, etc. did not go anywhere. If the enterprise does not consider these indicators, and these are fundamental indicators, then it will not go anywhere and will not last a day. The cost price is the cost of production and sale of products, works, services. Add the rate of return and get the price.
      2. When tenders for government purchases are announced, then the minimum rate of return is laid in them, especially taking into account the latest trend for "landing." At the same time, the KRU of the Ministry of Finance, the Audit Chamber, the prosecutor’s office and the investigators of various levels regularly work. In the case of defense orders, the Faithers are still vigilant. So my advice to you, read Onalnoy and other yellow-liberal dick less. At the same time, I’m not saying that they’re not stealing, they are stealing, as elsewhere, and maybe less, if I want to, I can give links to materials that describe how TEN DOLLARS OF DOLLARS are dug in a few minutes. And ALMOST legal. And they’re throwing their own people out of detski. This magic place is called the American Stock Exchange.
      3. We have long had a system of state-owned banks that credit both the military-industrial complex and where the government points. For example, VTB, VEB group, the same Sberbank, Gazprombank and others. There are even private banks that lend to VPK, the same Rosevrobank (by the way, with the participation of the capital of Germany).
      Further, budget funds are used to fulfill orders for the needs of the defense industry, and when necessary, with a good advance (and it reaches 80%) ...
      1. VAF
        VAF 15 June 2013 01: 05 New
        +2
        Quote: ssergn
        Cost price,


        Only +! For all counts! You can immediately see that you are in the subject! I just didn’t understand .. on whose side wink

        Write yourself COST, only now I think it and how I need it !!! Then you probably already understand what I mean wink As the main contractor, I have “my” subcontractors (double tenders), etc. bully

        And let the switchgear continue on your list .. complain to me on a visit .. everything is open for me and everything is available and balance and budget and documentation! bully
        1. ssergn
          ssergn 15 June 2013 07: 39 New
          +5
          I set out only the facts and did not say anything about my "belonging", so I do not understand your irony slightly. Well then, in order:

          1. I love women in every sense of the word repeat
          2. I was born, studied and entered a university in the USSR, but I ended up in independent (from whom only) Russia. I have a vus anti-tank artillery battery commander (I studied flute playing wink )
          3. I really love my country and it is disgusting and terribly insulting to me when I go to Kazakhstan, to Ukraine (most of my ancestors are from there), the Baltic states or elsewhere and I have to go through the border, customs and other nonsense. It was wild to hear in Ukraine, "but we want to join NATO." In response to a question, why do you need it, they answered me "but the Russians didn’t attack Schaub, they were weak men." I DO NOT understand why Crimea is UKRAINE. I think that Suvorov, Kutuzov, Rumyantsev-Zadunaisky, Nakhimov, Ushakov, Catherine the Great, Potemkin (you can continue for a long time) would generally have been petrified by such twists of fate.
          4. Further, the CUSTOMER (State) calculates the price of the auction, and here the main problem is that the specialists at the Customers ran out or did not start and sometimes consider this price according to the 3P principle (floor, finger, ceiling), that is, there are simply no qualified estimators . But the contractor’s business will meet this price. And when there is still trade (in 90% of cases), the price can also crash.
          5. COST means its own (without additional) product (it will become a product when it has a price).
          6. And since I am for justice, I really do not like it when they are engaged in juggling with the fact, especially specialists, which are difficult for uninitiated Pts to bring to clean water. You know, a real fan loves and supports his team always, and not just when she loses (it is especially noticeable with the example of our national teams), and so I just love my MOTHERLAND. I am for her greatness, power and independence (real). And I don’t like much in the current regime, BUT, after all, a lot of good is being done, otherwise looking at the mass media one gets the feeling that we only have cuts, kickbacks, thieves, etc. But the country is living, working, something is happening, it is being built, it is opening up, and then down the list. That's why I read both the military review, and the SMS (made with us), and other sites.
          Yesterday in the states it was the day of the national flag, the current they treat these holidays with trepidation, amers abroad are proud to say that they are US citizens, they have confidence that their own state is the most, and if so, then for them 100500 planes, helicopters, tank divisions and others will arrive.
          So here I want that our people RUSSIANS also belonged to their country, that Russia, the flag, coat of arms, anthem - this is HOLY. And holy, do not touch! And then ....

          Somehow like this...
          Still have questions drinks ?
          1. VAF
            VAF 15 June 2013 13: 28 New
            0
            Quote: ssergn
            Still have questions


            So, after all, there weren’t any of these questions, but they didn’t understand the irony, well, it means minus me that I’ve "buried" deeply or minus you, as if I had pretended that I didn’t "catch it" lol

            I just noticed that you are + and that you are ... really in the subject! drinks
            1. Arberes
              Arberes 15 June 2013 13: 39 New
              +2
              vaf (1) . Good afternoon Buddy! drinks
              I have a present for you.
              I’ll write it off in PM!
          2. Arberes
            Arberes 15 June 2013 13: 37 New
            +2
            ssergn Hello hi Excuse me for the unceremonious intrusion into your conversation with Veteranohm, but I want to ask you another question. How do you feel about the monopoly on the power of the United Russia? If you really openly told about yourself? hi
            Best regards drinks
            1. ssergn
              ssergn 15 June 2013 22: 20 New
              +2
              Goodnight,

              And I have a negative attitude to monopoly, and to any. What power, what the production of something. Monopoly is evil, and for the monopoly itself, too, since it leads to self-destruction and self-destruction for obvious reasons (for example, there is no incentive to develop, there is no competition, in other words, the grip is lost). Well, actually, the end is one
              I do not belong to Edru, simply put, non-partisan. And actually, this is not a political forum, although without talking about politics, almost no topics pass. hi

              Best regards drinks
        2. ssergn
          ssergn 15 June 2013 07: 50 New
          0
          Quote: vaf
          And let the switchgear continue on your list .. complain to visit me .. everything is open to me and everything is available and balance and budget and documentation


          It seems to you just did not complain hi
          1. VAF
            VAF 15 June 2013 13: 31 New
            -1
            Quote: ssergn
            It seems to you just did not complain


            It's like this ..... write about your power yourself and right there ... didn’t complain? laughing but they "eat" what do you think ... only bread ..and without butter? wassat
            1. ssergn
              ssergn 15 June 2013 22: 25 New
              +2
              So the problem is that the appetite angry comes with food, so do not give, although it is very problematic hi
    47. soldier's grandson
      soldier's grandson 14 June 2013 22: 14 New
      0
      Well, what did it create? current for whom will he go? few very few people create and someone sells