Military Review

About the oddities of the "Tatar-Mongolian" invasion

About the oddities of the "Tatar-Mongolian" invasionIn December, 1237 - January 1238 of the year, Batu's troops invaded the borders of the Ryazan principality, after the 5-day assault took Ryazan and moved to Vladimir-Suzdal Russia. The fragmentation of the Russian lands did not allow to assemble a single army and give battle. Each land, a princedom acted independently and as a result began the so-called period of the “Tatar-Mongolian yoke” - vassal dependence on the power of the king of the Golden Horde, a state spread over a vast territory from the Danube to Siberia.

But modern Russian people are faced with questions, but was the “Tatar-Mongol invasion” invented, who were the “Tatar-Mongols”? Isn't it a fake "Mongols from Mongolia", launched by the spy of the Pope Plano Carpini and other agents of the Vatican (the worst enemy of Russia). Many people in Russia have already begun to understand that the West has been playing its “game” to destroy Bright Russia not since the 20th century, but since its inception, and the Vatican was the first lair of the beast. One of the methods of the enemy is the creation of the so-called. “black myths” (“about drunkenness and laziness of Russians”, “bloody despots Ivan the Terrible and Stalin”, “about filling up the Germans with corpses”, “about Russian invaders who captured one-sixth of the land”, etc.), which blur historical memory and paralyze the will of the Russian superethnos (term Yu. D. Petukhov).

Too many inconsistencies in the "Tatar-Mongol invasion"

1) How could semi-wild shepherds (albeit warlike) crush such developed powers as China, Khorezm, the Tangut kingdom, go through the mountains of the Caucasus, Volga Bulgaria, crush the Russian principalities and almost capture Europe, scattering the troops of the Hungarians, Poles, German knights. After all, it is known from history that any conqueror relies on a developed economy - Napoleon and Hitler had under them the most powerful states of Europe (France and Germany) and practically the resources of all of Europe, the most technologically developed part of the world. The current States have the most powerful economy on the planet, and the ability to buy "brains" and resources for cut paper. Alexander the Great, with all his talents, could not have done even half of the achievements if his father had not created a powerful mining and metallurgical industry, strengthened finances, and carried out a number of military reforms.

2) We are told about the "Tatar-Mongols", but from the biology course it is known that the genes of Negroids and Mongoloids are dominant. And if the “Mongols” warriors, destroying the enemy troops, would pass through Russia and half of Europe (remember what they do with the women who were defeated !?), then the current population of Russia and Eastern, Central Europe would be very similar to modern Mongols - short, dark-eyed, coarse black hair, swarthy, yellowish skin, high cheekbones, epicanthus, flat face, poorly developed tertiary hairline (beard and mustache practically do not grow, or are very thin). Does the described sound like modern Russians, Poles, Hungarians, Germans? Yes, and archaeologists (see, for example, the data of the anthropologist S. Alekseev), digging up places of fierce battles, find mainly the backbones of Caucasians. This is also confirmed by written sources - they describe the Mongol warriors of a European appearance - blond hair, light eyes (gray, blue), tall. Sources depict Genghis Khan as tall, with a luxurious long beard, with "lynx", green-yellow eyes. The Persian historian of the times of the Horde, Rashid ad Din, writes that in the family of Genghis Khan, children "were born mostly with gray eyes and blond."

3) The notorious "Mongols" did not leave a single (!) Mongolian word in Russia. The words “Horde” familiar from historical novels (for example, V. Yan) are the Russian word Rod, Rada (Golden Horde - Golden Rod, that is, royal, of divine origin); "tumen" - the Russian word for "darkness" (10000); “Khan-Kagan”, the Russian word “Kokhan, Kokhany” is beloved, respected, this word has been known since the time of Kievan Rus, as the first Rurikoviches were sometimes called, and in the criminal world the word was preserved - “godfather”. Even the word "Batu" - "father", the respectful name of the leader, is how the president is still called in Belarus.

4) Mongols in Mongolia only from Europeans (!) In the 20 century found out that they seized half the world and they had a “shaker of the Universe” - “Genghis Khan” (“rank is Khan”) and from that time they started a business on this name .

5) Alexander Yaroslavovich very much acted in concert with the “Horde-Rod” Baty. Batu struck in Central and Southern Europe, almost repeated the campaign "scourge of God" Atilla. Alexander also smashed Westerners on the northern flank - defeated the Swedes and the German knight orders. The West received a terrible blow, and temporarily subsided, “licking its wounds,” while Russia received time to restore unity.

6) There are many other inconsistencies that destroy the overall picture. So in the “Word about the destruction of the Russian land” it is told about a certain “trouble” that befell Russia, but there is no mention of the “Mongol-Tatars”. In general, the Russian chronicles speak of "nasty", i.e. not Christians. In the story “Zadonshchina” (about the Battle of Kulikovo), Mamai before the battle, surrounded by boyars and Yesauls, turned to his (!) Gods Khors and Perun (Russian pagan gods) and accomplices (assistants) Salavat and Mohammed (part of the population of the Horde-Rod accepted Islam).

What does all this say!?

"Tatar-Mongol invasion", as well as the "Tatar-Mongol yoke" was not! These are the black myths fabricated by the Vatican and German scientists (Miller, Bayer, Schlözer), their Russian accomplices (perhaps not evil, without thinking) with the aim of destroying historical Truth and destroying Genuine Russian History. Undermining Russian roots, destroying the sources, Western rulers deprive the Russian people of the life-giving power of their Sources, turning them into thoughtless consumers.

What really happened, we ourselves must figure it out, clearing the past from the rubble of lies. It is logical to assume that this was an internecine conflict between the fragmented Russia that adopted Christianity (Kiev-Vladimir Rus) and the little-studied world of Scythian-Siberian Russia, which retained the pagan faith of their ancestors. Moreover, Northern Russia (Novgorod region) eventually supported Batu's army, taking part in the war with the West.
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  1. The comment was deleted.
    1. Sitev
      Sitev 19 June 2012 14: 25
      You are mistaken, or you deliberately support the falsification of Miller, Bayer and Schlozer.
      1. Basil50
        Basil50 6 October 2016 16: 48
        The only * explanation * of the invasion is the crusade of Christians * Nestorians * on the money of Byzantium. Otherwise, one cannot understand the sudden rise of Christianity and the fabulous enrichment of monasteries and temples. By the way, it was precisely at the time of * yoke * that monasteries were created, they * were * cut off * huge territories and the first monastery slaves appeared.
      2. siberalt
        siberalt 18 October 2016 13: 47
        For some reason, our ROC is very interested in the "black myth" about Igo. The Tatar-Mongols just appeared at a time when religious expansion was going on in Europe for a place under the sun, accompanied by terrible bloodshed. And in fact, it seems, it was a religious war. We are still seeing their echoes in the Middle East.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. yeah
      yeah 21 March 2014 03: 28
      Mikhail you are not like everyone else .. Genghis Khan is described in the annals as: blue-eyed blonde with a powerful beard .. I think it does not look like the Mongols.
      1. nrex
        nrex 18 October 2016 17: 38
        I agree with you, I also noticed this incomprehensible persistence of the ROC, that there is something our fathers do not want to stir up. It may be necessary to reconsider the fate of the great generals and the ruling elite. And it may not always look beautiful. Let everyone know the truth to which they are accustomed.
  2. dixi
    dixi 8 January 2011 17: 04
    In my opinion, Zadornov has a competitor.
  3. AAA
    AAA 8 January 2011 19: 59
    O_O maybe the afftor was kidding, although April 1 is still far away, maybe a squirrel?
    1. Duisenbay Bankankulov
      Duisenbay Bankankulov April 28 2017 19: 21
      AAA soon smoked something or glitches after the "vitamins" ...
  4. Skills
    8 January 2011 20: 41
    1) The question is not how no one argues with this, but who?
    2) Russian boys were also put on a horse from 2-4 years old, and the Russians fired better than wild nomads, and the famous English "Robin Hoods"; read in encyclopedias about Russian complex bows. And God did not offend the Russian squads and the German knights with discipline.
    3) Historians have long proved that it was impossible to feed 100 thousand troops in Russia in winter, plus 2-3 spare horses. Batyi had a maximum of 20-30-th. fighters
    4) To broaden your horizons, I advise you to look through the work of Yu.D. Petukhov "The Eurasian Empire of the Scythians"
    5) insults ("goof", "paskuda") speak of the low moral level of the commentator, who first needs to read Russian classics, and then go online.
  5. 1
    1 8 January 2011 22: 02
    Read L. Gumilyov. Everything is chewed there.
    1. Basil50
      Basil50 6 October 2016 16: 55
      Gumilyov is nothing more than an unsuccessful parody * of a tiligent *, no profession, no talent, and only an indefatigable desire * of fame * at least in something.
  6. christ2000
    christ2000 9 January 2011 10: 41
    first you need to deal with the very words "Tatar" and "Mongol". For example, those who now live in the territory of modern Mongolia were called "Dzhungars" in the Middle Ages. And this is in the first place.

    Secondly, in Russia after the advent of the so-called of the Tatar-Mongols, civil strife ceased, which ultimately claimed more lives than one invasion by unknown people. Not to mention the fact that the arrival of Christianity in Russia was postponed for 300 years.

    And thirdly. The presence of the facts themselves does not explain the essence of what is happening. Every fact can be twisted in any direction. Let's take a better look at who most succeeded in demonizing the "Tatar-Mongol yoke" and draw a conclusion who needs it.
    1. UAZ Patriot
      UAZ Patriot 23 September 2011 01: 10
      Fourth, my opinion :)

      Mongol (Art. Mogul) is translated as great and this word does not belong to any nation. Tatars (from the Greek tartar) - a place farther than Hades, i.e. distant distance. horde - oh-force yes - day or light, i.e. the power of light (this is Old Slavonic, let me remind you that Orthodoxy came from Byzantium, which included Greece, so the parallel between translations from different languages ​​is quite appropriate). So it turns out the Mongol-Tatar horde is translated as a great light power from afar. And yoke is translated as order. Hence the Mongol-Tatar yoke means order from afar. Where from far away? yes from Russia! which was also a ball for Europe with Tartary, i.e. far away (see the Mercator maps, the projection of which is still used in Europe to translate coordinates from geographic to rectangular and other European "friends", everything is drawn there) Thus, at that time (1242), everything came down to about the same which is still pink, tulip, arabic, etc. revolution. Only - this is a new world order. And since there is a new one, there must also be an old one according to the logic of things. And what he was, my personal opinion, the Mongol-Tatar yoke is he himself! Only not in relation to Russia, but in relation to all the metropolises located on the territory of the Eurasian continent. And the center of this multinational world order was the Vladimir-Suzdal metropolis, with its immense wealth at that time. I do not assert, but there is such a version, and in my opinion it is quite objective. Vladimir-Suzdal Russia crushed everyone under itself, which is why Russia is so hated in the West, and many of us are trying to finish off and finally establish their own new world order, this is my personal opinion. And by the way for us it will be called in the same way MONGOLO-TATAR IGO - Great world order from afar, like that ... and then judge for yourself!
      1. Duisenbay Bankankulov
        Duisenbay Bankankulov April 28 2017 19: 30
        UAZ Patriot from Turkic tartare - pull towards you or join. And if you look at the map of Kazakhstan, then the question arises: How did the horde army of many thousands travel more than one kilometer through the deserts? How many people and a horse can do without water? As they say in the East: The enemy does not come from far...
    2. nrex
      nrex 18 October 2016 17: 47
      And the very name "TARTARIA", a synonym - Tartary [1] (Latin Tartaria, French Tartarie, English Tartary, German Tatarei) is a general term used in Western European literature and cartography in relation to vast areas from the Caspian Sea to the Pacific Ocean and to the borders of China and India. (Western WIKIPEDIA) They're not hiding anything. We ourselves are already running in a circle after the ghostly tatato-Mongol.
  7. dr_sax
    dr_sax 9 January 2011 15: 47
    Dethened Fomencoid.
    Very upset that this nonsense was on this site. The site fell a lot in my eyes.
    1. Sitev
      Sitev 19 June 2012 14: 29
      The facts that the so-called "Tatar-Mongols" are fair-haired, light-eyed and with a European skeleton, which casts doubt on the work of Miller, Bayer and Schlözer!
      1. nrex
        nrex 18 October 2016 17: 48
        Isn’t that the Schlozer that Lomonosov kicked?
    2. kalibr
      kalibr 2 October 2016 07: 21
      Yeah, it's just not good to rave today!
    3. Senior manager
      Senior manager 7 October 2016 06: 23
      There is an exit. Instead of sticking labels, you need to write an article with your own vision of history, and, in order not to get upset so much, do not visit the "fallen site".
    4. siberalt
      siberalt 18 October 2016 13: 57
      The site is very upset laughing The fact that IGO is a myth, in our country every schoolchild already knows and can explain it scientifically. The adjective "Tatar-Mongolian" is an anachronism, goes out of use and means the Great Troubles in Russia, preceding its reunification. History tends to repeat itself.
  8. Kuzma Prytkov
    Kuzma Prytkov 9 January 2011 22: 42
    I haven’t met more senility for a long time, and even Fomenko, in my opinion, didn’t go so far

    for each "question" you can just defend a dissertation

    Of course, not only in history, but in psychiatry

    as for history, it is unclear what the hell people are climbing into it, whose mental power would have been envied by barn mice

    "there was no economic base under Genghis Khan" - why, China, the world's largest economy and technological workshop at that time, was not conquered first? "Mongoloid cross-breeding has not been noted" - is it not known that when putting up resistance, the Mongol troops methodically cut out any territory, in Bulgar, in Rus, in Hungary? well, well, let's say even all domestic sources were falsified, and the Bulgarians simply could not remain - but the Hungarian ones were kept in a place inaccessible to the "conspiracy of falsifiers"! naturally, those who did not offer resistance, the Tatars did not rape in large quantities, or they simply drove away part of the population with them, later - into the same Sarai ... but it’s just pointless to chew on every question, well, flaming idiocy, right ...

    doctors, doctors, and a place to book in the nearest Durkee, and immediately
    1. Igarr
      Igarr 21 March 2012 19: 27
      You, Kuzma Prytkov ... first of all, would follow your own advice.
      "..that, when showing resistance, the Mongol troops methodically cut out any territory without exception" - who told you that?
      The boy knocked out an eye to your terrible Mongol - will everyone be cut out? Or massively non-raped?

      Well, really - flaming idiocy ... I agree with all my heart.
  9. Skills
    10 January 2011 09: 27
    Judging by the viciousness of the comments, the author touched the sore spot. History and education in general are after all the last bastions of the enemies of Russia. The most powerful tools for brainwashing Rusov. And then God forbid awakening and order on their Earth will begin to direct.
    1. nrex
      nrex 18 October 2016 17: 53
      Thank. Our land is not yet impoverished with sanity. Spletsers brainwashed the brain of most couch historians. They don’t see obvious facts, they refer to the chroniclers of the dreamers of the dreamers orthodox.
  10. dixi
    dixi 10 January 2011 17: 17
    Quote: Skill
    History and education in general are the last bastions of the enemies of Russia.

    Well, you pushed hard! Education is the last bastion of enemies! You can sleep peacefully. His (education) in Russia was successfully threatenedpancakeyut.
  11. Alexander
    Alexander 10 January 2011 19: 29
    The family of Temuchin (Genghis Khan) is from Dinlin, and these are the descendants of the Scythians, hence his European facial features and red hair. His first son Sartak was a Christian. But Igo was not going anywhere from this. Who is interested in this issue, read "Memory" Chivilikhin, The Great Book of the Patriot.
    1. sergor55
      sergor55 25 September 2016 15: 17
      What was a Jewish patriot Chivilikhin ???
  12. pit
    pit 10 January 2011 23: 15
    For starters, the author would have studied the history of the Tatar-Mongol yoke.
    Question number 1 What was the name of the number of khans for the period of the Tatar-Mongol yoke of Rus?
    Question number 2 based on the results of hostilities between states, a peace treaty is always signed, fixing the results of the war. Did the Tatars have such an agreement with Russia?
    Question number 3 Name at least 5 historical noble families in Russia founded in the culture of Russia in the 17-19 centuries founded by the Tatars in the 14-15 centuries
    Question number 4 In what year did Russia last pay tribute to the Tatars?
    Good luck to the author;)

  13. pavlo
    pavlo 11 January 2011 17: 42
    Well, for starters, look at the picture — the Kulikovo battle — the battle for Moscow — and determine where ours are and where are the Tatar-Mongols?
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 2 October 2016 07: 23
      See the picture how? On a time machine?
  14. Michael
    Michael 12 January 2011 10: 40
    For the Tatars, it was to subjugate Russia, make it pay tribute and beg for labels to reign. They came to fight, and not to produce children and bring color to the Russian language! As soon as they gained long carts of the loot, they returned to their homeland, and did not settle in Russia. And the author found with whom to compare the army of the Tatars with Hitler’s !! What were then the needs and what were under Hitler, of course, how much steel was needed for the tanks, how many plants for the production of various equipment and fuel. And horses during the yoke were in every Mongolian family ...
    1. rustem
      rustem 20 June 2012 16: 41
      The goal of the indigenous people of this land, now called Russians and Tatars, was to create a strong single country with a centralized management system, financial system, communications, etc. The West was afraid of this. You can understand why. In the military confrontation, he conceded, therefore he acted in political, ideological ways. The fight goes on
  15. gojesi
    gojesi 17 January 2011 01: 08
    after the bloody imposition of Christianity on Kievan Rus by the Jew Vladimir. The mass of Russians, fleeing the genocide, went "beyond the stone", that is, beyond the Urals. Those who left called Vladimir's henchmen PRIESTS, and those who remained in Kyiv called the departed TAT-ARIES or TATIARS. POP is the Ashes of the Fathers Betrayed, a word that in Russia has always carried a negative connotation. The Ruses who left "behind the stone" self-organized into the ORDER, where OR is strength, and DEN is Day, i.e. - The power of light! The Slavs have always been sun-worshippers and never pagans ... There are really more questions related to the "Mongol-Tatar" invasion than answers ... For example, Tsar Boris Godunov ... The Romanovs, who usurped power, in order to legitimize it was necessary to justify themselves in the murder of Boris Godunov. For this, the following was done. The surname Godunov is the surname of Boris's mother, and his father's true surname is -0 NARSHKIN, i.e. - a real RURIKOVICH ... I.e. we are constantly deceived, and planted a national inferiority complex... SLAVES WAKE UP!!!
    1. sergor55
      sergor55 25 September 2016 15: 22
      I agree, the Romanov clan-usurpers and ki, that is, illegitimate !!!
  16. Don zeus
    Don zeus 17 January 2011 20: 31
    pit - about the descendants of the Golden Horde clans known in Russian culture of the 17-19th centuries.
    Immediately without false modesty I say - mine. I won’t give you a surname, but the first Russian woman writer, very famous in Russia until 1917, a nee representative of my kind, though its Kaluga branch, I myself am from Kazan. Her sister, as a writer, is less known, but is considered one of the ancestors of Slavophilism (I hope you understand this word correctly). A number of famous writers did not belong to the family, but was raised in families. For example, the first Russian poet Sumarokov.
    Further, one can name Aksakov, Bulgakov, the Pleiad of Tolstoys.
    Other questions are either dishonest or incorrect, so I will not touch on them.
    Before criticizing the author, read the annals, what you read will be very different from textbooks - more than 100 years from Nevyruyev’s ratification to the memorial in the Horde, all trips were made only at the request of the Russian princes! And often the khan changed his mind and recalled troops from the campaign.
    And the battle with Kulikovo is not easy (by the way, my ancestor had already left with his detachment for Dmitry Donskoy and took part in the battles on Vozha, Pian, on Kulikovo Field) - Mamai was a usurper and Moscow acted as an ally of the legitimate Khan Tokhtamysh.
    As soon as Tokhtamysh informed Donskoy that he had regained his throne, payment of tribute resumed. But during the period of inter-power in the Horde, Moscow regularly beat out the Horde exit from Russia, Tokhtamysh believed that he had the right to the entire amount, and Dmitry sent only the current tribute, so the raid followed. The rest of the princes considered it to be a brawl between Donskoy and Takhtamysh, so Dmitry was left alone.
    You can find a lot more interesting, causing a lot of questions that are removed if we allow the ethnic homogeneity of Russian and real Tatar-Mongols.
    This does not negate the fact of wars and pogroms, but read the "Teachings ..." by Vladimir Monomakh and answer your question, whose were the dozens of cities that he burned? And on the ashes that are attributed to the invasion there are no signs indicating who burned them and when.
  17. Valery
    Valery 17 January 2011 23: 00
    Miracles, by God - such a heated debate about an excellent article, by the way, and not a word about the Khazars.
    Learn the materiel!
  18. gojesi
    gojesi 18 January 2011 01: 51
    and I insist that no "Tatar-Mongols" have ever happened, just like the "yoke"! What happened was the division of the Rus "thanks" to the introduction of a foreign, hostile religion by Vladimir ... Their eternal principle is divide and rule!
  19. mikhail
    mikhail 20 January 2011 02: 33
    you are either stupid or no better than any other falsifiers of history, like the author of this g .... a.
    Slavs wake up) funny you are the right word.

    Sartak is the son of Batu Khan, actually. And the question of the origin of the Borjigin clan is complicated. Although legends speak of chori-tumats.
  20. Don zeus
    Don zeus 20 January 2011 13: 46
    Borjigin - in the literary translation of "blueoki", originate, according to the "Secret Legend" from Alan (who are Alans, of course it is not known?), Which, after the death of her husband Badan-Bayan (Bayan, the same incomprehensible name?), From the rays of the Sun (a typical Skolotsk legend - chipped, in Scythian and Old Russian "son of the sun", "from the sun", etc.), gave birth to three blue-eyed heroes. And the name Sartak is very reminiscent of Spartacus, Polak and other Scythian and Aryan names. By the way, Spartacus is the generic name of the Bosporus kings, who were expelled by Mithridiat, so that the famous Spartacus is from the Don.
    So, the remarks are not appropriate, especially as they relate to my ancestors, for Prince Zeush (I believe that Zeush is the distorted name of Zeus), according to family tradition, was Genghiside.
  21. Kazakh
    Kazakh 21 January 2011 21: 23
    the term Mongol-Tatars was coined by Karamzin in the 19th century, there were no Mongol-Tatars, but there was a union of nomadic Mongolian and Turkic tribes and the nomads did not call themselves Tatars, they called themselves by the name of their clans, for example, Kipchak, Naiman, Kerey, Zhalair, Konyrat, and so on, later this name was assigned to the Volga Bulgars, the ancestors of the current Kazan Tatars, so that you understand Russians, you like to call Caucasians and Asians chocks imagine in 100-200 years, for example, the true meaning of this word will be forgotten and some people will accept this word as a name of their people, this is what happened with the Kazan Tatars, to whom the label of the Tatars was glued, although they used to call themselves Bulgars, but gradually forgot the former name of their people and got used to the name of the Tatars. real Mongols - Tatars are Nogaits, Bashkirs, Kazakhs, Kumyks, and part of the Uzbeks, for example, the Kazakhs have, there are many legends about campaigns in the Balkans, in the Crimea, there is a legend of the noble Yer-Sain, so the Kazakhs called Batu Khan, the grave of the father of Batu Khan the elder the son of Genghis Khan Jochi Khan, located in the Karaganda region, the Kazakhs have a Tore clan, the descendants of Genghis Khan, I personally know the Kazakh descendants of Genghis Khan who know all their ancestors until the 13th century, the nomads did not need convoys. The horses of the nomads ate pasture at necessary, they were fed with Kurdish fat, they do not need fodder, and the nomads do not need grub, they eat their horses, so the invasion was
    1. UAZ Patriot
      UAZ Patriot 23 September 2011 01: 30
      I agree with you, though Russian, so in part! Mongols and Tatars are actually words that have nothing to do with the names of nationalities. Mongol-(Mogul, Greek) means great, Tatar (Tartar, Greek) means far. The only problem is that these names were introduced not by Karamzin, but by European cartographers. for them, the Mongol-Tatar horde was a great herd of people (in confirmation of your words about chocks) who came from far away. from where ... see comment above. but the fact remains - we are the people of Eurasia, no matter how we were called throughout our history, we were and will be together and we went to Europe together and our religion was mixed (Orthodoxy and Islam), this is evidenced by many antiquities on which there are crosses and Arabic script get along together!!! like this.
    2. sergor55
      sergor55 25 September 2016 15: 35
      Kazakh is Kazakh!!! the same song as the ancient ones Ukrainians!!
  22. Don zeus
    Don zeus 22 January 2011 19: 19
    Kazakh - of course there is a desire to cling to someone else's history and glory. Your author in "In Search of Genghis Khan - Shezhire - Bilingual - DNA Project" - I don't remember the address - but you can find it in the internet by name, says about two clans of Genghis Khan's descendants among Kazakhs. At the same time, puffing up the Russophobia characteristic of Kazakhs, he said that he would study the Russian clans only if the original ancestor was designated as a prince or an ulan, but in Russia no one was called ulans, we had either princes or Horde princes, and so on. my ancestor is designated a prince, then my family did not get into these lists. This approach is due to the fact that the Russophobe would have to find out that more than half of the Chingizid clans - about three hundred - are Russians. It is significant that the Horde was Golden, meanwhile there are different Tatars, but there are no Golden Horde.
    And the genders of Genghisides among the Kazakhs appeared elementarily - they captured the Russians in China, grabbed Chinese women - and whom the Chinese gave birth to Russian, obviously - Kazakh, Oirat, Buryat, Hulk and Darigan, with all the ensuing consequences. Of course, these Chinese were able to expel, they went somewhere and formed their peoples, of course, the Genghisides who remained at the head of these tribes took themselves primarily their Russian women, but this only delayed their hybridization. In addition, the Russians had slaves and grooms from other tribes.
    But you can’t argue against the facts - Genghis Khan on the monument with a broad beard, and who saw at least one Mongoloid with a beard? The name is preserved - the mogul, which is understandable from the Russian language, there are descriptions - red (light brown) and blue-eyed (gray-eyed) - the difference can be due to lighting.
    No one argues about the invasion - only it was an ordinary brawl between Russians.
    1. UAZ Patriot
      UAZ Patriot 23 September 2011 01: 36
      +100 ... 0000 division of the territory I also agree only it was just not in the invasion in 1241-1242. and in 1380 on the sandpit
    2. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 25 November 2012 05: 39
      1) the Kazakhs have only one genus of Chingizids ("Tore"). or you misunderstood something or you are talking nonsense. I have a paternal grandmother - Chingizidka.
      2) Russophobia is not peculiar to Kazakhs. it is another matter that some Russian Russophobia thinks everything that does not sound in unison with great-power chauvinism and does not fit into the ideal popular print world "the Russians invented the wheel and the alphabet and gave it to the surrounding ungrateful Papuans."
      3) what for the mentioned Kazakh researcher to research Russian clans if the site is dedicated to Kazakh DNA? declare yourself a Kazakh, name your clan (Argyn, Naiman, Kerey, Tore, Zhalaiyr, Uysun, Kipchak, etc.) and participate in the study. And given that you are a "descendant of Zeus", then the study of your DNA in the framework of the Kazakh project is obviously a waste of time. Why do you need this? Do you want to prove that you are a Kazakh? Or prove that non-Kazakh? The Chingizid haplogroup is known. A fairly common haplogroup in East Kazakhstan and Mongolia. Conduct an independent study of your DNA, find out the haplogroup and you will no longer doubt your roots.
      4) Genghisides with confirmed shezhire (family trees) have been preserved for the most part among the Kazakhs. Modern Mongols have no genghisids. Only the Buryats say that the neighboring halkh brothers seem to have those.
      5) You are clearly confusing the concept of "Chingizid" and "a native of the Golden Horde." Three hundred famous names (in the sense, families, but not clans in the Asian concept) in Russia are simply eminent people from the Horde (who are not, for the most part, descendants of Genghis Khan). The Baskakovs, Aksakovs, Karamzins, Mendeleevs and others are the descendants of the Murzas, Baskaks and other representatives of the Horde establishment. And the overwhelming majority of ordinary Russians with Turkic surnames are generally simple “Tatars” who have become Russianized in recent centuries.
      6) The Golden Horde is generally a term invented relatively recently, and moreover in Western Europe. The steppe people themselves called their state unpretentiously - Ulug Ulus (Great State). Tatars are also not a self-name, it was the Russians who glued nicknames to their Turkic neighbors - "Siberian Tatars", "Nogai Tatars", "Crimean Tatars", "Kazan Tatars", Kazakhs in the 18th century were often called "Cossack Tatars" in Russian sources. Themselves these ethnonyms invented for us, you yourself then refute something on this stupid basis.
      I can tell you that there are no Germans. I, they say, was in Germany, asked them who they were - they answered that they were Bavarians, Saxons, or some mysterious Deutsch. But nobody named themselves there Nemets. Conclusion - there are no Germans and never have been! The steppe people were identified by the name of the clan (Kipchak, Barlas, Naiman, Kerey, etc.) and by belonging to one or another ulus (Mangyt Yurts (current Nogays), Kazak Khandygs, (present Kazakhs), etc.) of this clan in the Mangyt Yurt were the same as in the Kazakh Khanate, the only difference was that some were subordinate to one ruler, the others to another. The clan division remains among the descendants of nomads to this day, be it a Bashkir shepherd, a Kazakh oligarch or Mongolian airbus pilot. Everyone knows that he is from such and such a subgenus. The history of his kind is known not only from oral legends, which in fact are sometimes more accurate than the previous scanty historical textbooks edited by some Goldman and Freidenberg in 1948 in the Research Institute of the History of Communist Paradise at the USSR Academy of Sciences, but it is also fully confirmed by information from Chinese, Arab, Persian, Central Asian and other chronicles (sometimes European, although there is usually such crap written by medieval Tikan "tourists").
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 25 November 2012 05: 40
        7) about your stupidity about "the Russian capture of China and the origin of the Turkic and Mongolian peoples from their marriage" - there is nothing to comment on. Delirium and hallucinations.
        8) About Genghis Khan at the monument - they killed him ... This, of course, is the main scientific argument. There is also really nothing to answer a set of words in which it turns out that all the redheads and beards are Russians, apparently you have never seen Asians at all. Come to Kazakhstan, come to the mosque, you will see so many bearded Mongoloids that you will immediately throw out your stupid things. And there are many red Kazakhs, as well as green-eyed ones.
        I don’t understand whether the desire to call ourselves a Chingizid or to declare the Horde people as ethnic Slavs comes from the age-old complex "we are, like, a victorious nation, but for some reason we were under the Mongoloid steppe for almost three hundred years?" Now you decided to declare the conquerors Slavs? Okay, suppose the evil Europeans decided to bless the nomads and attribute to them the "Era of Great Conquests" ... But why then the Arabs, Persians and Chinese do not tell anything about the Slavic rulers of the Horde? :)))) Also zhYdy-Masons-Catholics-Millers bribed?
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 2 October 2016 07: 27
          Of course this is a complex. We are great, we are powerful, and still by and large are sitting in the ass. Well, at least they didn’t sit in the past, everyone’s fingernail!
    3. injeneer_03
      injeneer_03 1 September 2014 19: 13
      "And the genera of Chingizids among the Kazakhs appeared elementarily - the Russians captured China, grabbed Chinese women for themselves - and who the Chinese will give birth to the Russian, obviously - the Kazakh, Oirat, Buryat, Khalq and Darygan, with all the ensuing consequences. "and a Negro and a Mexican and an Indian, by the way, similar with the Buryats, and the Russians with the Chinese women rode to the skeletons of Japan))))))))
  23. KAZAKH
    KAZAKH 22 January 2011 23: 16
    Don Zeus, dear, you live with stereotypes driven into your head by figures from various nationalist organizations For your information, there are many blue-eyed and gray-eyed Turks among the Turks, you will probably agree that Kazakhs are Mongloids and I want to tell you that about 50% of Kazakhs have a beard growing perfectly, for example, if I don’t I’ll shave for a week, then you won’t distinguish me from the Afghan Mujahideen, and gray-eyed Kazakhs are found, about the descendants of Genghis Khan among the Kazakhs, these are real living people, for example, the head of the financial police of Kazakhstan, General Kozhamzharov, carefully read the story about Genghis Khan, there appear such clans as the Kereites, naimans, konyrats, these are Kazakh clans, they still live on the territory of Kazakhstan, for example, living in V.K.O. Kazakhs, all from the Naiman clan, simply did not have a common name Kazakhs during the time of Genghis Khan, and everyone called themselves by the name of the clan I Naiman I Kereit, etc., and even now they call themselves that among the Kazakhs, during the excavations of ancient Ryazan, the remains of the Horde warriors were found, their appearance was restored according to the Gerasimov method, they look like a mixture of Caucasians and Mongoloids, or like Mongoloids, they do not look like Russians

    I also want to add Russian, most Russians don’t know which side to approach a horse in your villages, even shepherds walk on foot, in ancient times most Russians didn’t really know how to ride horses and Russians didn’t have horses in large numbers, only princely combatants had horses , the majority of the Russian troops were foot warriors if the Russians were such horsemen, why is there not one Russian equestrian game or custom associated with horses? I’m just talking about the Cossacks, don’t comb the Cossacks, these are the descendants of the Turks who have become Russified and have forgotten their ancestors, you see in the 13th century in bast shoes with with horns on the shoulder with a knapsack from Ryazan and Vladimir to China, they stomped, they captured everything then Central Asia, Iran, Arabia, the Caucasus, then when the bast shoes were worn out, they stomped back to Russia and there the Russians set the yoke over the Russians, this is nonsense of Nosovsky, Fomenko and the like,
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 25 November 2012 05: 45
      in my opinion, a person has a schiz ... he obviously has some kind of personal problems superimposed on ignorance and multiplied by national complexes. therefore, he had the Mongols and Kazakhs descended from a Russian marriage with the Chinese. and the Kazakh language - apparently Russian-Chinese newspeak ...)))
  24. Don zeus
    Don zeus 24 January 2011 21: 09
    KAZAKH firstly, where does such information come from?
    - On foot Russian troops;
    - about the inability of Russian peasants to ride horses;
    - about the results of excavations?
    According to the information that I have - there are less than a dozen Mongoloid skulls found, you say that in Ryazan and even in Kiev, but in both cases - I heard it personally, and people were initially convinced that the original Mongols were Chinese, these are the remains of defenders. In the Horde cities in the Volga region there are no Mongoloid remains at all, and you do not say so, but where are the Mongoloids then?
    Secondly, I referred to your author, you didn’t find him? He speaks of two genera of Kazakh Genghisides, but two genera are not two people. For example, according to my estimates, in my family - I do not mean my relatives, but those who have the right to our family coat of arms - the central part (shield) of which you can see on the left, at least fifty men. You have more birth rates, in my opinion, he talked about five hundred Genghisides. Why do I need to prove that you know this genghiside? By the way, your Russophobe author miscalculated, apparently he knows little about geography - many of the genera that he recorded as Polish, in fact Russian or Polish-Russian, such as, for example, my mother’s family.
    Thirdly, you begin to disappoint me - you don’t see that with regard to racial issues, you actually confirm my words that the Kazakhs are a hybrid of Russians and a Chinese - that’s where you have certain Russian features, especially since Y- the chromosome is passed from father to son unchanged, maybe you have a Russian one.
    Fourth, how can a person forget his nationality? The Cossacks lived compactly, without mixing up with other people, at least it concerns the Cossacks Don, Zaporizhzhya (Kuban), Tersky and Yaitsky, what prevented them from preserving a different language? After all, Meria and Mordovians and Kazan, etc. etc. saved.
    Fifth, and this is not Nosovsky and Fomenko, but on the contrary, Normanists from the West, therefore, no one is in doubt, - it is believed that Asgard from which Odin brought the ancestors of the Scandinavians is Ashgabat. Runes of the XNUMXth century were found on the lands of modern Mongolia, which, of course, were declared Scandinavian, as you know, I consider them Russian, so that scoffing over lapotniks is not appropriate.
  25. oyrat
    oyrat 29 January 2011 20: 01
    Kirghiz-Kaisaks would be better off keeping quiet ... or is Borat not enough? wink
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 25 November 2012 05: 42
      But what are there Kazakhs in Borat? except gypsies, Jews and Americans, there seems to be no one else there. Well, maybe you starred in episodes, then I'm sorry, you didn’t recognize without makeup.
  26. Death of the OUN
    Death of the OUN 2 February 2011 00: 04
    What barbaric illiteracy!

    How could the semi-wild shepherds (albeit warlike) crush such developed powers as China, Khorezm, the kingdom of the Tanguts, fight the mountains of the Caucasus, the Volga Bulgaria, crush the Russian principalities and almost seize Europe.

    As an example - Hitler and Napoleon! :))) Contact the barbarians, "historian" :)

  27. Don zeus
    Don zeus 2 February 2011 19: 42
    The death of the OUN is an unsuccessful example - not the distance, and the barbarians of empires did not create, but simply captured not large enough - Italy, France, etc. land, neither Attila nor Avars can even be compared with the Golden Horde, and the Mongols united a single empire with the capital in Beijing for almost 100 years.
    The Frankish Empire is a rather late and no longer barbaric entity.
  28. Kazakh
    Kazakh 3 February 2011 22: 03
    haha, the self-satisfaction of the Russians amazes me, they themselves walked in bast shoes, ate a quinoa, half-wild nomads still laugh, at that time there were no tanks and planes, your ancestors always faithfully served the Russians like sabaks and you serve, wear a cross? your name is probably Russian, you think they will award you an order, don't forget Oirat 1770.
    1. sergor55
      sergor55 25 September 2016 15: 44
      chyurka, how long have you stopped eating with your hands?
      but all the same Rusnya! There was no Kazakhstan until the 30s of the 20th century!
      that’s your whole story !! Genghisides, your mother !!
  29. Serg
    Serg 4 February 2011 13: 06
    Cossacks - Turkic clan?
    Here is a link to the book - 15-16 century. "Cossacks - a kind of Khazar"
    forum. php?f=42&t=160

    Kazakh-personality passed-arguments ended, zombie?
  30. Escander
    Escander 27 February 2011 20: 06
    Wai, wai! How many people can be drawn here!
    And the Kazakhs became Chingizids, and the Russians in bast shoes reached China (the bast shoes were erased, they stayed there) ... But did Alexander Nevsky accidentally not be the great-grandson of Macedon?
    However, it has been proven that the genes of Genghis are common among most modern humanity. So do not break the spears, gentlemen-khans. We are all his descendants (straight, oblique, etc.).
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 25 November 2012 05: 59
      among the Kazakhs, the Chingizids did not "suddenly" appear, but this genus has always been. both khans and sultans were elected up to the last khan Kenesary only from among the Chingizids. and the Russian tsarist power, after the liquidation of the khan system, appeased the Kazakh Chingizids to the full, endowing them with titles and titles of the new Empire. Chingizid Gubaidulla Zhangirov was a general, the founder of the signal troops in the Russian army, a participant in the Balkan Russian-Turkish wars, another representative of the Kazakh Chingizids, Shokan Ualikhanov (Chokan Valikhanov), was a famous Russian intelligence officer, and also a talented ethnographer and geographer. Alikhan Bukeikhanov - deputy of the first Russian Duma, later was the Commissioner of the Provisional Government for Kazakhstan. Another Kazakh Chingizid Shota Ualikhanov is a well-known architect in Kazakhstan. Etc.
      ZY Do not confuse the well-known fact that the Chingizid haplogroup belongs to a very common haplogroup in the Eurasian nomadic zone and the fact that only the descendants of Genghis Khan are Chingizids. You mixed everything together by simply declaring one of the Asian haplogroups "Chingizid". This is an incorrect statement. And it turns out: "Penguins are black and white. Emperor penguins are also black and white. Conclusion: all penguins are emperor."
  31. baurzhan
    baurzhan 6 March 2011 17: 21
    brother Kazakh, what are you trying to explain to them, they don’t know the Turkic language and the Kazakh clans, for them, 90% of the clans participating in the campaign of Genghis Khan are part of the Kazakhs, Genghis Khan is translated from Kazakh as the eastern ruler, the Mongol is translated as 1000 hands, and Atilla Gunn he the same edel from the Argyn clan, near the great Russian river Volga, the Turkic name is edel,
  32. kolyan
    kolyan April 4 2011 23: 38
    none of you can fully argue your speculation. Therefore, it is very sad that we still do not know our present past.
  33. skin
    skin April 6 2011 18: 22
    do not overload your unfortunate Kazakh brother, 80% of the peasants are not serfs, and the nobility is Germans, Poles and Tatars, after 1917, Stalin made the USSR, but after him you yourself know what they did to the country. (And on the emblem )
  34. Pinocchio
    Pinocchio April 13 2011 17: 22
    A Kazakh should not comment so famously and viciously. As the steppe saiga was, it remains so. You will be the first to run to us and ask for help. Can't wait this time.............................................. .........................
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 25 November 2012 06: 03
      maybe we once asked you for food? or once Russian soldiers (not to be confused with the Soviet army) fought with the enemies of the Kazakh Khanate? can we ask you for gas now? are you confusing anything? tell me about the Kazakh steppes who asked for something from the Russians. I'll take popcorn.
  35. Joker
    Joker April 14 2011 17: 16
    skin- And you don’t handle the figures. the fact that sometimes we have all kinds of condons at the helm does not detract from our greatness, as they say, not by will but contrary.

    KAZAKH - a nomadic people not possessing the skills of mass production of iron (and where to get it in the steppe) can be limited only to local raids. The question is - what did you achieve after the collapse of the UNION?

    On history in general, including the Russian people, the author’s very reasoned position is proved by facts, a series of films who are interested in the history of our state will not regret it:

    History Science or Fiction Film 1 Do We Know Our History
    History science or fiction Film 2 What is history based on
    History science or fiction Film 3 Truth can be calculated
    History science or fiction Film 4 Alchemy of the pyramids or how they built in ancient Egypt (according to the pyramids I think the study is correct - The mystery of the seven pyramids)
    History of Science or Fiction Film 5 The Mystery of the Egyptian Zodiacs
    History of science or fiction Film 6 Mr. Veliky Novgorod who are you
    History science or fiction Film 7 Kulikovo battlefield for Moscow
    History of science or fiction Film 8 Russia-Horde
    History science or fiction Film 9 In what century did Christ live
    History of Science or Fiction Film 10 Forgotten Jerusalem
    History of science or fiction Film 11 The Moscow Kremlin
    History of Science or Fiction Film 12 Reconstruction of History (2010)

    There is love on social networks, copy the name and look.
    If you are too lazy to watch everything, then you can watch films 10 and 12 in abbreviated form.
    1. zczczc
      zczczc 23 September 2011 03: 25
      Jokeryou just need to understand that these films need to be filtered and distilled. I understand that Fomenko worked there with his own timeline, but it also becomes obvious when you read critics that there are many more documents proving the theory is incorrect in many places. I don't want to take away the pleasure of watching, I just want there to be no “true believers” in the infallibility of this theory.

      I personally am absolutely sure only of the concrete with which the blocks in the pyramids were poured. It is so obvious that all other theories cry.
    2. Kazakh
      Kazakh 10 October 2013 22: 22
      NOT CONVINCING !!!! We are RUSSIAN !!!!, and therefore we are SMART, HONEST, THE GREATEST and pyr-pyr and pyr-tyr. Well done among the sheep, but the well done and the sheep himself !!!! Who would doubt that you pull as many materials as you need. You don’t know anything about yourself, about your story, but no one can DARE your story. As you, Russians, have already been dumbfounded by your stupid majority - there is simply no urine. Personally, my conviction is that you have Russians there many centuries back many, many, many betrayals - that’s why you have such karma. TO SUFFER. Well, suffer, well now for us Kazakhs with you something to suffer? Is it NADA for us ?? Nope, NOT NECESSARY.
      1. Roman_999
        Roman_999 10 October 2013 22: 32
        Hear, fighter, they used to carry a similar heresy under the Ukrainian flag, now I think the blizzard will begin under the Kazakh flag for a couple of years, because the topic of Ukraine’s unity has been removed from the agenda, now the National Press will start on your part, we’ll survive, we’ve experienced a lot, and that’s survive. Are you convinced by this or who pays?
    3. kalibr
      kalibr 2 October 2016 07: 29
      Movies are not a story! They are rented by people at the request of people. It is necessary that the film was watched and it paid off.
  36. Old Man
    Old Man April 29 2011 14: 45
    one thing is worth remembering: history has always been written for the sake of and under the pressure of the existing government, which implies that% 50 of our history and fiction, if not more
  37. midashko
    midashko 23 September 2011 02: 48
    But the Chinese! In give! The Great Walls of China stood, and behind them, it turns out, there were no formidable nomads.
    1. zczczc
      zczczc 23 September 2011 03: 21
      midashko, yeah, and loopholes in their turn were mistakenly built in these walls ...
      1. UAZ Patriot
        UAZ Patriot 23 September 2011 21: 11
        and did the Chinese build it !!! ??? belay
        1. zczczc
          zczczc 24 September 2011 14: 50
          UAZ Patriot, here I am about that.
          1. UAZ Patriot
            UAZ Patriot 24 September 2011 15: 18
            and here I have a little question. Why are castles in Europe not large in size with quarries, and the cities of the Golden Ring of Russia are surrounded by kilometer walls in the absence of direct access to the stone?
  38. Priest
    Priest 27 September 2011 22: 06
    UAZ Patriot,
    There are answers to this question (of course, if it is really interesting).
  39. Priest
    Priest 27 September 2011 22: 26
    People are made holy by people smile Of course, I did not sit at the same table with NEVSKY, but - ("to blind these boyars - why do they need eyes, they still don't see anything") - what a holiness. But "Batkoy" he was definitely excellent (the north has never suffered since it happened with the south of Russia, - this is an irrefutable fact, - from here the conclusions ...............
  40. Ruslan
    Ruslan 11 January 2012 15: 06
    Books and films about the new chronology are interesting. But is it really so, we will never know. You can refer to any sources, but who wrote them and when? If you argue sensibly, then I won’t believe for any kind of carving that the steppe lightly armed nomads could take at least one city with stone high walls, loopholes and ditches. They would all die under the walls. I also won’t believe that in a direct clash with Russian troops with heavy infantry and cavalry, the nomads would have at least some chance. In both cases, they would be piled on, like the Swedes and Teutons. Therefore, rather, the theory of the former Mongol-Tatar yoke in Russia is complete. Whether there were temporary shifts in history, I don’t know. But the history of Western civilization is painfully combed, but ours is not. This is alarming!
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 2 October 2016 07: 30
      Did Russian troops have heavy infantry? From whom?
  41. vylvyn
    vylvyn 4 March 2012 11: 00
    I agree with the opinion that Zadornov has a competitor.
  42. Shesternyack
    Shesternyack 5 June 2012 22: 09
    Why, after Hungary, Genghis Khan turned back and did not move on?
    Yolki-sticks, if you look at the surviving legends about the "evil city" of Kozelsk, about the detachment of Evpatiy Kolovrat, that the army of Chingiz could not continue the conquests in the rest of Europe (and Russia was (and is now) a European country), yes and about the same Kulikovo battle and standing on the Ugra river, then we will see the great feat of the Russian people, a vivid demonstration of the strength of the spirit and the desire to win. But the current, I beg your pardon for the curse, "patriots" prefer to abandon all our victories, trying to ascribe to the invaders who inflicted damage on our people, from which we were recovering for several centuries.
    For me personally, the golden age of Russia was the period of the 11th century, the heyday of urban culture, when the daughter of Yaroslav the Wise, married a French king, complained in her letters to her home that France was a country in the countryside and that stink was dirty and unsanitary in general.
  43. PatriotizTAT
    PatriotizTAT 14 June 2012 22: 10
    Another nonsense friends !!! there is nothing to do, read Khaliullin ... recently, near the modern city of "Penza", they found a place of battle between the Mongols and the Kirghiz against the Volga Bulgars .... maybe this is an invention ?!
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 25 November 2012 06: 08
      all lies. Immediately the Russian jingoistic patriots explained everything to the unreasonable Khazars: they say, the Mongols / Horde / Khazars were Russians. The Russians built the Chinese wall. The Turks are descended from mixed Sino-Russian marriages. Well, the phrase "Ming blue yaratam" is probably in the Russian-Chinese dialect :)))
  44. kvs45
    kvs45 4 May 2015 14: 08
    A very free retelling of the ideas of Bushkov, Borovsky and Fomenko. But genetic studies do not confirm these ideas, but rather refute ...
  45. aksakal
    aksakal 22 July 2015 21: 49
    Author, you were kicked out of school and you couldn’t finish it?
    Here is an article for you even
  46. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 8 September 2015 22: 49
    Over the years, different sources have been publishing too. And why be surprised? History has been rewritten before. Ali., Now absolutely everything is also. Why do they think that in the old days they did not understand the benefits?
  47. Oringlar
    Oringlar 2 March 2016 22: 00
    I read it and it becomes funny. Mongoloids have no beards, but what about the Chinese with their long beards? "Many dark spots" have you read anything to support this theory? At least just get acquainted. I'm wondering if you disagree with the yoke, but why such a great country like China claims that they were defeated by a "savage"? They even made a series about it. At the expense of the Kazakhs: ethnogenesis is complicated here and the admixtures of immigrants from the Turkic tribes, assimilation with the Mongoloids and Slavs. And if you read the history of Russia, then you probably met the Kipchaks, Khazars, Volga Bulgars. First of all, Batu smashed them and in their place founded his own headquarters (horde), he also went to the Russian principalities, which were decentralized. Yes, yes, Batu Khan, not Genghis Khan, Timujin only sent reconnaissance to Russia (the Urusuts). And when asked why Batu did not go further to Europe, but stopped at Novgorod, the answer is simple Vedic Khan Ogedei died and Batu returned to the headquarters of the great Mongol empire, and not to the Golden Horde, to support his loyal candidate. And at the expense of the article, to say that I was taken aback is to say nothing: from somewhere they dug up documents, conducted experiments, it turned out that Batu is the son of Genghis Khan, not to mention that these are Russian princes, this is such incredible stupidity. In short, one article went over the whole story and turned it inside out. "Kazakh is a hybrid of Russians and Chinese, when did the Russians go to China? They went to the Tsar - hail, but why did they need China? To which it is too far to go, they fought with the Kipchaks, but not with China. But what about the dynasty. Yuan in China founded by the Mongols? Or do the Chinese have a show-off to say for fun that they were pushed around by the Mongols? They at least do not deny this circumstance, unlike you.
    1. Mwg
      Mwg 4 October 2016 13: 53
      For OrinGlar. Read the news, dear. The presence of Russians in the nonesh territory of China is confirmed by the presence of cave temples, in which frescoes with fair-haired and bearded uncles with crosses are hastily knocked down from the walls by the Chinese. And it is also confirmed by the excavations of the "great Chinese warriors" who turned out to be with the R1N1 genome. Yes, and in Kazakhstan, the burial places of soldiers were opened, and there again R1N1. In Altai. Etc. etc.
      I have no doubt that at school you were an excellent student in history, this can be seen from your commentary. Unfortunately, however, we all have to expand our horizons throughout our lives. Read, please, about archaeological excavations of graves and about genetic research and compare them with school knowledge. If there are contradictions between this and that, I assure you, it is necessary to revise the basic guidelines given by the school. Although, you can continue to deny the results of archaeological excavations and genetic research in your right. For "what is your evidence ?!" ))))))
  48. Andrey Muisky
    Andrey Muisky 27 September 2016 10: 10
    Description of Batu’s invasion in textbooks raises many questions. Here are some of them:
    • are the Mongols so good at waging war in the winter,
    • is it possible for the mass of cavalry to go along the ice of rivers,
    • what is the number of troops of Batu,
    • what was fed,
    • what are the losses in manpower.
    It turns out that Tatars love big hikes in winter. Why? Historians explain this by the fact that the masses of cavalry easily move to the cities along frozen rivers (Borisov, 1997, p. 157; Ilovaisky, Formation of Rus. P. 517). It's hard to believe it. Especially those under whom the ice fell on Russian rivers. And here are tens of thousands of horsemen. What does cavalry military science say about this? Batu's hike is especially interesting in this regard. There were no noble guides-princes. But the ice was apparently strong. In any case, this is the opinion of historians on the basis of the chronicler's phrase that the prisoners are "from mriza isomrosh" (Grekov, Shakhmagonov, 1986: 67).
    Russian snow is deep. How to feed steppe horses accustomed to shallow snow. How Batu found passages to Russian cities in dense forests. Who, besides the Russians, knew the roads well? Therefore, again traitors. Solid traitors and not a single Ivan Susanin.
    In winter, sledges are used to transport goods in Russia. Were they at the Batu Tatars?
  49. Andrey Muisky
    Andrey Muisky 27 September 2016 10: 13
    By the way, a detachment of Poles quickly froze in Russian forests when Susanin brought the matter to an end. Did the Mongols not freeze? Yes, they spent their whole lives in the frozen steppes, but in yurts. So, they brought yurts with them. This is a huge convoy, a lot of messengers, utility horses. How was the problem of feeding the whole army solved? Have you eaten what you stole? And at the transitions? Did you still have to get to Russia? If the army is 300000, and each has two or three horses, then 300000 must be fed. and at least 600000 horses! Gumilev is one of the few who thought about it. As a result, he reduced the army of Batu by 10 times. But to explain that the army of 30000 people was able to take 14 cities, he had to rely on his theory of passionaries, that is, special people who could inspire thousands of soldiers to battle to a complete victory, and a victory that goes without much loss.
    "Unfortunately, military historians did not deal with this issue. We will not find reliable indications in the sources. Russian chronicles are silent, European eyewitnesses and Hungarian chronicles estimate Batu's army, which took Kiev and invaded Europe, at more than half a million. In pre-revolutionary historiography, it was completely arbitrarily established figure 300 thousand.
  50. geologist
    geologist 30 September 2016 14: 39
    Batyga's army walked along the rivers, every minute falling through the ice, only the heads of the few surviving hungry steppe horses peeked out frightenedly from under the deep snow. The insidious Rusnya settled in their huts until spring and did not show their nose, and among the snowy deserts there was not a single haze or paths to be seen.
    + + + + + + + +
    Or maybe everything is easier? In the summer they swam along the rivers, and in the winter they rode sledges along the same rivers, and it was easy for the Mongols to move along ready-made autobahns with winter asphalt. Even today, winter roads between Far Eastern cities are better than summer ones.