Military Review

How would we live if there was no war?

185
The plans for the economic development of the Soviet Union for the 40s shook their scope. Unfortunately, these plans were canceled out by the invasion of the western armies of the Hitler coalition. The Great Patriotic War inflicted a wound on the Soviet economy that it was able to heal only a few decades later. But what if it was not? How would our grandparents live if they didn’t know the horrors and devastation of war? How could their grandchildren live?


Cinema and bullshit

The theme of the Soviet past has become incredibly popular with the creators of the pseudo-historical television series. And writers and producers have a particular affection for the colorful times of the "personality cult". Almost every month we are pleased with the new history: a harsh citizen chief of the MUR catches a lesson learned, supermen-counterintelligence suppress another dirty trick of fascist saboteurs, and "innocently repressed" escapes from arrest in order to get to the front and protect the country they repressed.

They shoot on the conscience, especially diligently trying to depict the life of that time. The actors sit on a stool in a flaky kitchen, make terrible grimaces and famously overthrow the “stopariki”, the same “loft” rides along the lane (the only one for the entire film studio), and the place itself for shooting is specially found in the depressed blocks of the old building forgotten by God, not seen repair since the time of their construction. It would seem a complete resemblance to the original. But wait! The discrepancy is obtained!

If all Soviet citizens either banged or stolen, as shown in cinema, then who in 30's spent enormous industrialization, and after the war, raised the country from the ruins? Who built three hundred large industrial enterprises a year, who built new residential quarters, increasing the urban population and the size of the cities themselves at times? And where are these new houses, new hospitals and schools, where are giant factories with smoking pipes?

They are not on the screen. There is only a crap "communal" in disrepair and its residents, who generally do not work anywhere. They only drink, steal, and write denunciations of each other. This is exactly how the Stalinist USSR is shown to us — gloomy, impoverished, in constant ruin and an atmosphere of complete hopelessness. But everything was completely different!

Ruin in their heads

The Soviet Union 20-s very reminiscent of the current Ukraine. The only difference is that then there were no oligarchs who seized all profitable enterprises for squeezing out super-profits from the people. There were very few enterprises themselves - just like now! But if the Ukrainians 2 / 3 profiled their factories, scrapping them, then they have not yet been built. And what remained of the tsarist regime, took care. It would never occur to anyone to close, for example, the Putilov (the future Kirov) factory and rebuild its workshops into a Komsomol leisure club. For such ideas could and put to the wall - as a pest.

Otherwise, everything was as it is now. Fractions of power and opposition fought bitterly with each other. In Kharkov (the capital of our republic), the Ukrainizers enthusiastically engaged in a "national revival." In the field of public policy, a complete mess was going on: almost every year, slogans, holidays, and heroes changed. The holidays themselves in the year, in the end, it became much more 18! Red was not only the revolutionary dates, but Christmas (it was celebrated for two days) and Easter (three days), Ascension, Trinity, Assumption and Transfiguration. But it practically did not affect the work of the Soviet economy, since there was simply no work in the country.

In the 150 million country, there were only 11 millions of workers and employees. At the same time, official unemployment was about 10% (1,2 million registered), and the figure was unofficially an order of magnitude greater. Half of the urban population sharpened knives, scissors, cleaned shoes, and sold cigarettes and candy from trays. The remaining 120 million people, unable to go to work abroad, survived in the village. In the best case, on its natural economy, in the worst - soiled for wealthy neighbors.

The atmosphere of despondency and hopelessness reigned in the country — all that remained was to steal and plump. However, this was the pre-Stalinist USSR, and this did not last long. Already in 1927, the Trotskyist opposition was crushed, and after a couple of years and expelled - and endless political discussions in power stopped. But the Soviet government did not relax in an atmosphere of serene "stability." It adopted a grand plan for the development of the Soviet economy. And instead of spending budget funds for the construction of residences with gold toilets, it invested them, all to the penny, in the industrialization of the country.

In modern Ukraine, we note, everything is being done the other way around: the country has been practically deindustrialized so that a bunch of oligarchs can make billions of themselves.

From shovel to excavator

The Stalinist plan was simple: instead of continuing to sit on the ass and moan about the devastation, everyone had to get up and start working, as in the film “Chairman”. Not on someone, but on themselves. Is it hard to plow a plow? Build a tractor factory! Close to live in three families in the basement of an old house? Let's build a brick factory, and then new residential buildings!

The outcome of the Soviet industrial revolution was impressive. Already in 1932, unemployment not only disappeared, but also had to additionally attract nearly two million workers. By 1940, the number of workers and employees has increased to 31,2 million, the country's urban population has tripled! But there were still not enough labor hands - then prisoners were brought to work, who were sweeping the tundra with brooms. It is in modern serials that Stalinist convicts lie on the banks and lazily felled cedars with dull saws, in reality they built new cities and factories in Siberia in a year or two. Worked not under sticks, but for parole, reinforced soldering, cash bonuses. Some remained on construction sites and after the period, civilian.

But it was still a lot of work, so I soon had to increase the working day from 7 to 8 hours, and make the working week seven days (6 working days + Sunday). Today, of course, this is interpreted as the unbearable yoke of Stalin’s tyranny, which conquered the poor, unhappy people.

During two five-year plans in the country, more than 5 000 large objects were built, among them about three hundred such giants as Dneproges, Uralmash, Azovstal, Zaporozhstal and Krivorozhstal, HTZ and STZ, Turksib, Moscow Metro. Indicators of industrial production growth (not in fictitious GDP, but in real tons and units) doubled every four years.

For ten years, a complete base of its own production has been created: from smelting metal to manufacturing machines and machines. In 1939, the USSR became the fourth country in the world, capable of independently producing any product of any complexity. And if the first plants began to be built with shovels and wheelbarrows, then after a few years, Soviet bulldozers and excavators were already roaring at construction sites.

The West looked at fantastic achievements with hatred and admiration. Already in 1932, the British banker Jarvi Gibson wrote: “Soviet Russia is moving forward, while many of our factories are idle and about 3 of a million of our people are looking for work in despair ... In all industrial cities that I visited, new areas are being built a plan, with wide streets, decorated with trees and squares, with modern-type houses, schools, hospitals, working clubs, and inevitable creches. "

By the year 1940, the USSR had changed beyond recognition. Cyclopean factories smoked with pipes, neighborhoods of new “Stalinok”, parks and squares, cozy houses of workers' settlements grew in the cities, hundreds of thousands of tractors and combines worked on the fields. Pioneer camps, rest homes and sanatoriums appeared, created a public network of developed and free medicine from scratch, the number of schools, technical schools, universities increased by an order of magnitude. It was already practically another country, in which only genetic scum of evolution could thump and loaf. As all normal people have a quite achievable goal in life: to make their lives better, both in material and in other respects.

However, in June, 1941 of the year, war broke out on the way ...

I saved money - I bought a car!

One of the main reproaches to Soviet socialism was the so-called. lack of private cars. Although in reality the situation was somewhat different: everyone wanted to have a car, even if they did not need it, but not everyone had the opportunity to buy it, even if they were free to be sold in the store. By the way, before the war, the first cars were put up for sale at the first Soviet motor show. There were no queues for them.

Nevertheless, the Stalinist government understood that public transport in such a huge country was not enough. And already in 30-ies laid the foundation for the future automobilization of the USSR. For example, the reconstruction of old city streets and the construction of new ones took into account the future of heavy traffic, although its mass production was only planned. That is why Stalin's avenues were so wide and so deserted. But the first Soviet "people's car" was not at all Khrushchev "Zaporozhets". And not even the post-war "Moskvich-401".

They became "KIM-10", mass production of which began at the Moscow Automobile Plant in April 1941. The plan called for 50 thousand cars to be assembled by the end of the year and then producing about one hundred thousand a year in three versions (2-s and 4-door sedans and phaeton). It seems to be a bit, however, this is a plan for only one of the automobile plants. And there was GAZ, which was planning to start in 1941-42. the release of four models of passenger cars at once: two subcompacts and two middle-class cars with a total circulation of half a million units per year. Well, we will not consider the VMS, since its full-size "full-sized cars" were ordered by the state.

This, we note, was only the plan of the third five-year plan (1938-1942), which was thwarted by the war. Five-year plans, the focus of which was on the construction of a huge number of factories that produce finished products, including for the mass consumer. Already then, in the second half of the 40-s, it was planned to launch several more automobile plants, increasing the production of equipment several times. It is difficult to say, the USSR could overtake in this automobile America, but producing one and a half million cars a year is easy!

But since June 1941, civilian cars had to be forgotten, all car factories switched to a military regime. And the bombed-out GAZ was even forced to abandon the release of new models of trucks developed before the war (for example, the GAZ-51), and focus on the production of the "one and a half" GAZ-AA, the Soviet jeep GAZ-67, armored cars, light tanks... And then in the war-torn country for a long time there was no time for personal cars, and they returned to this topic only in the 50s - along with the issue of mass housing construction.

Life is better

The 3 five-year plan envisaged an increase in the rate of housing construction to 35 million square meters per year. Given that the Stalinist housing standards were much more comfortable than the next ones, this would be approximately 500-600 thousands of apartments. Of course, this would not solve the housing problem of rapidly growing cities, although growth was evident: for example, in the previous two five-year plans, on average, 15 had built millions of squares over the year.

Such low rates were explained for two reasons. Firstly, the emerging construction industry (brick, cement, concrete, and other plants) was primarily engaged in the industrialization of the country. The next priority was the social sphere: hospitals, schools, kindergartens, sanatoriums, rest homes, clubs. And only in third place was housing.

Secondly, they built then not just laying blocks and overlaps on top of each other, according to a typical drawing. The architectural style "Stalin Empire" is known to residents of all megacities of the country - these houses are still prestigious. The houses on the 3-6 floors (often with shops on the ground floor) were more modest, but still stood out for individuality, and most importantly, comfort: the ceilings in 3-4 meters, rooms in 15-20 and even 30 "squares", spacious hallways and walk-in closets , massive stone balconies, curly cornices and stucco. Even at home (2-3 floor) or single-story apartment houses for ordinary workers differed in very good-quality construction and spaciousness compared with the subsequent "Khrushchev".

As we see, under Stalin they were not ashamed to divide citizens into categories, avoiding leveling. Specialists received very high salaries (as well as a state-owned car and state-paid servants) and moved into elegant high-rises along with generals, artists, foremost workers, polar explorers and other celebrities. ITR workers, teachers, doctors, officials lived in houses of the second category, and the working family was completely content with a modest apartment near their own factory.

Of course, there were communal and barracks. But their inhabitants knew that these inconveniences were temporary, and were eagerly awaiting their own or neighborly settlement. After all, the vacant rooms of communal apartments were given to the family of a responsible tenant, and the barracks were rebuilt into residential buildings into several apartments. So it was before the war, and on this trend, people planned their future. Unfortunately, crossed out by the war - it is clear that in the bombed Union the communal apartments not only ceased to settle, but also the opposite - they began to condense back.

In the second half of the 40-s, the pace of housing construction should have taken off at times. The main industrialization and creation of a social infrastructure would have already been implemented, and the vacated capacities were planned to be thrown at the solution of the housing issue. Moreover, they would have decided it quickly, since it was under Stalin that the idea of ​​mass "industrial development" was born. Its essence was simple: for several years to build tens of thousands of residential buildings from standard blocks, panels and slabs - as designers.

However, these "stalinki" still differed spaciousness and elegance. If this idea came to life, we would have not labyrinths from gray boxes of cramped faceless "Khrushchev", but thoughtful quarters (with squares or clubs in the center) of quite decent housing. But at first the war broke out, then there was a period of restoring the destroyed, and when it came to building a new one, the power in his hands was already held by Khrushchev, the inventor, who thought the Stalinist’s designs were too luxurious for the proletariat and issued the notorious Resolution 1871 "On Eliminating Design Excesses and construction. " It ordered to build houses in a strict Spartan style, without any exterior decoration, with minimal living space, narrow staircases, with cardboard doors, a low ceiling hanging over the head and a combined bathroom.

The funny thing is that the prototype of their "Khrushchev" corn secretary general saw ... in France. During a visit to Paris, he was shown quarters of model houses for the poor and migrants from Africa. Seeing this poverty, Nikita Sergeevich enthusiastically set about trying to drive the Soviet people into the same ghetto. What Stalin would never have thought of ...

About tasty and healthy food

As is known, Khrushchev turned into an absurdity not only residential buildings (“Khrushchev’s houses”) and automobiles (Zaporozhets), but also the light industry of the Soviet Union, as well as nearly ruining the food industry. In effect, by laying a time bomb under Soviet socialism, it worked in the 80s.

The fact is that in times of severe Stalin, such a form of ownership as a cooperative (artel) developed a very large development. In fact, it was a kind of business, only the enterprise was the property of the team working in it, and not a private individual. The requirements were simple: to sell quality goods, to honestly report to the financial inspector and not to engage in "shadow schemes." Since it was not bad to earn by honest labor, and the punishment for cheating was harsh and inevitable, the artel workers preferred to work hard.

The sizes of the artels were different: from the metal workshop to a small factory. In 1940, thousands of cooperatives worked in 114 thousands of 1,8 million people who produced 40% of all furniture, 70% dishes, 85% of shoes and clothes, 95% bedding (linen, pillows, blankets), 100% of all toys and souvenirs!

In addition, the artels made a significant contribution to supplying the country with food products: 40% confectionery production, 50% cheese and sausage production, more than 60% fish catch, 80% fruit juices and jams, 100% sold in wild berries, mushrooms, nuts. Shops selling cooperative products were in every town and village — people were dropping in there to buy something delicious to the table when there was extra money (the prices in such stores exceeded the state prices).

After the war, the artels helped many people with disabilities find jobs without letting them descend into despair and hard drinking. Other cripples with their work rose so that they became prominent wealthy people, not a burden, but the breadwinners of their families.

And in the year 1960, Nikita Khrushchev considered these artels a relic of the bourgeois system and ordered them to be eliminated. The artels reassigned to state-owned enterprises, putting their workers on a meager salary, which is why they simply stopped working. And people with disabilities were thrown out onto the street (except for the blind), and they, with harmonicas and mugs, flooded the train stations and markets of the Khrushchev Union. It is clear that in the "supply of workers and employees" there was a long protracted collapse, which for a long time they were trying to fix with various "food programs." So far, in 1988, Gorbachev did not think of re-enabling co-operative production and co-operative shops, which became the foundation of the modern consumer economy. But our “artels” quickly became state of emergency and are engaged not so much in production as in resale of imports.

But the idea of ​​Stalin was more ambitious. It was planned to promote in every possible way the development of industrial cooperation: to help it with premises and production equipment, the purchase of raw materials and sales of finished products. In fact, the co-operatives generally had to shift the care of fully meeting the demand for entire groups of consumer goods. Instead, for example, in order to build a garment factory, it was planned to build another weaving mill, and sell its products to co-operators who would have sculpted fashionable clothes for citizens from the state-owned calico and cloth. There is less concern for the state, artel workers - profit, citizens - joy. Everyone is happy!

Of particular importance was the expansion of cooperation in the countryside, as well as among livestock breeders and fishermen. Moscow was going to divide agriculture into two parts: large collective farms would surely provide the state with strategic products (grain, butter, meat), and numerous artels would produce for the citizens anything they wanted: from jam and marinades to smoked balyks and refined wines

In fact, the implementation of this plan would eliminate the shortage of consumer goods already in the 50-ies. In the Soviet Union, the long-awaited abundance would have arrived, and people would have only had to earn more to buy tasty food, elegant clothes, new furniture, appliances, and a car. In the future there would be no shortage, a crisis of socialism, a lack of confidence in the government, the collapse of the Union. We would live not in the country of crumbling "Khrushchev", amid the chaos of wild capitalism, but in the beautiful cities of the strongest and richest state on the planet. Alas, the damned war ...

However, the USSR had a chance to start all over again. To fall behind in their plans for years on 15, but, having restored the country after the war, continue to strive for what was planned. However, a man by the name of Khrushchev was worse than any war.
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  1. leon-iv
    leon-iv 13 June 2013 15: 35 New
    -72
    I will answer briefly
    If Grandma had MPH, she would be Grandfather
    1. experienced
      experienced 13 June 2013 15: 39 New
      -51
      Why write articles about an alternative story? The war with Hitler was inevitable and it is not known how the USSR would have fallen asleep if Hitler occupied England (I think it would have managed in 1-2 years), and then in 1943-44 it would have attacked the USSR, and then it would certainly be with Japan and 100% without land - Lisa would have gone. So we must live in the present, not forgetting about the past and thinking about the future, and not building alternative versions of the development of history hi
      1. Atlon
        Atlon 13 June 2013 16: 17 New
        50
        Quote: seasoned
        and it is not known how the USSR would have plagued if Hitler had occupied England

        No way. They would divide the spheres of influence.

        Quote: seasoned
        and then in 1943-44 he would attack the USSR and then certainly with Japan

        I wouldn’t attack. Hitler was set up against Russia by the Zionists and the British. There would be no one to set off.

        Quote: seasoned
        So you have to live for today, not forgetting about the past and thinking about the future

        It's right! However, the history of Russia would be completely different if not for so many envious people who constantly put sticks in the wheels.
        1. Vadivak
          Vadivak 13 June 2013 16: 32 New
          13
          Quote: Atlon
          I wouldn’t attack. Hitler was set up against Russia by the Zionists and the British.


          It is always interesting to learn something new from you. Hitler and the Slavs .....

          Hitler therefore hated us and attacked.

          Report No. 32
          1. Lunch 18.09. Invited: Reichsminister Dr. Lammers, Reichsminister Koch.

          . .. Slavs are a family of rabbits. If the master class does not push them, they can never rise above the level of the rabbit family.

          ... Any knowledge given to them, at best, will turn into their half-knowledge, which will make them unsatisfied and anarchist. It is for this reason that the idea of ​​creating a university in Kiev should be discarded. In the end, almost nothing remains of this city.

          Document of the Federal Archive in Koblenz // Kosik V.
          Ukraine and Germany in the Second World War., P. 553

          “After centuries of whining about protecting the poor and the humble, the time has come for us to decide to protect the strong against the lower. This will be one of the main tasks of German state activity at all times - to Prevent by all means at our disposal the further increase in the Slavic race. Natural instincts command all living beings not only to conquer their enemies, but also to destroy them. In previous days, the prerogative of the winner was to destroy entire tribes, entire nations. ”

          Adolf Gitler .
          1. Atlon
            Atlon 13 June 2013 16: 50 New
            38
            Quote: Vadivak
            It is always interesting to learn something new from you. Hitler and the Slavs .....

            From you, too ... Do you seriously think that the former corporal and failed architect and artist, suddenly waking up in the morning, was not completely overshadowed by these ideas? The Jews brought Hitler to power. Jewish industrialists worked for the German defense industry. The ideas of the superiority of one race over the rest are drawn from the Jewish religion, and the practical embodiment from the Jewish "science" of Eugenics.
            1. Vadivak
              Vadivak 13 June 2013 16: 55 New
              +3
              Quote: Atlon
              Jews brought to power Hitler.


              And he thanked them for it. Now everything fell into place. And Babi Yar and Auschwitz.



              1. Atlon
                Atlon 13 June 2013 17: 10 New
                37
                Quote: Vadivak
                And he thanked them for it. Now everything fell into place. And Babi Yar and Auschwitz.

                Compare the figures of the dead Jews, with other nations. For example, with cygans who do not yell about the Holocaust, but are destroyed more actively by Jews. Or with the Slavs. Do you know that furnaces for the same Auschwitz were developed by Jewish engineers? And produced at the Topf plant. Here, take a look: http://www.funeralportal.ru/library/1079/21538.html
                As for the Babi Yar and other horrors, for example, the Morgans, Dupons, Rothschilds and Rockefellers, this is NU NOT affected!
                1. experienced
                  experienced 13 June 2013 17: 17 New
                  -15
                  Quote: Atlon
                  Compare the figures of the dead Jews, with other nations. For example, with cygans who do not yell about the Holocaust, but are destroyed more actively by Jews. Or with the Slavs. Do you know that furnaces for the same Auschwitz were developed by Jewish engineers? And produced at the Topf plant. Here, take a look: http://www.funeralportal.ru/library/1079/21538.html

                  Pavel, this is not a meeting of the Memory Society, and you are not a lecturer. The article is not about Jews, why are you crucifying here? hi
                  1. Atlon
                    Atlon 13 June 2013 17: 20 New
                    11
                    Quote: seasoned
                    why are you crucifying here?

                    Why do you argue with known facts?
                    1. experienced
                      experienced 13 June 2013 17: 24 New
                      +2
                      Quote: Atlon
                      Why do you argue with known facts?

                      I do not argue with the facts. I'm just sure that Hitler would never have calmed down until he destroyed the USSR. The antagonists were the USSR and the Reich and could not exist together. If someone is interested in reading about what would happen if, then for this there is a separate genre of fiction - an alternative story. Just think about it on the pages of the site I think is wrong hi
                    2. Alexander Romanov
                      Alexander Romanov 13 June 2013 17: 34 New
                      0
                      Quote: Atlon
                      Why do you argue with known facts?

                      Pavel, how many times did Germany attack Russia-Russia? Really and the attack of the Teflonites was repaired by the Jews laughing
                      1. leon-iv
                        leon-iv 13 June 2013 17: 44 New
                        -19
                        The Teftons were mercenaries whom they hired to punish Nevsky for gopstops in Livonian lands
                      2. Alexander Romanov
                        Alexander Romanov 13 June 2013 17: 50 New
                        +6
                        Quote: leon-iv

                        The Teftons were mercenaries whom they hired to punish Nevsky for gopstops in Livonian lands

                        You do not tell the Balts, they have not yet calculated laughing
                      3. psdf
                        psdf 14 June 2013 10: 05 New
                        +6
                        The Baltic states were honestly bought from Sweden for 2 million gold. Who are the Balts, what miracles settled on our lands and rights shake?
                    3. Rattenfanger
                      Rattenfanger 13 June 2013 18: 37 New
                      14
                      Quote: leon-iv
                      Teftons were mercenaries whom they hired to punish Nevsky

                      "ThoseФTonsky "order was founded in the Holy Land at the end of the 12th century, during the 3rd Crusade. At the beginning of the 13th century, the Teutons, at the invitation of the Hungarian king, are fighting the Pechenegs. Then, from 1225 (according to other sources, 1223) join the crusade in Prussia, directed against the Prussian pagans.
                      Then, in the year of the Batu invasion, they sang with the Danes from the Livonian Order.
                      After the Pope named Zhora, number 9, in the same year, 1237, declared a crusade to Russia, they, the Swedes with the Danes, "and the Teutons who joined them" pushed to Russia. Once again, not the first and not the last, supermen came to teach us to live correctly. The result is known. 1240 - Battle of the Neva, 1242 - Battle of the Ice. Two slaps in the face of one of the greatest sons of the Russian Land. Where is "gop-stop",sorry?
                    4. leon-iv
                      leon-iv 13 June 2013 21: 49 New
                      -7
                      Where is the "gop-stop", excuse me?

                      gop stop was before that. Moreover, Nevsky is an extremely ambiguous personality. Given the relationship with Khan Batu to whom he was either his own son or adoptive

                      And here are a number of questions that I would like to receive an answer to
                      Mention of the battle is absent in the Ipatiev Chronicle, as well as in Swedish sources.

                      In the Lavrentievsky chronicles, the mention of the battle is recorded in 1263 and is a borrowing of the Life. For 1240 g there is no mention of the battle.
                      Swedish sources claim that Birger did not leave Sweden in the year of the battle.
                      Swedish sources do not mention the death of any bishop in the year of the battle.
                      The description of the wound in the face is possibly borrowed from the Life of Dovmont of Novgorod.
                      There is no explanation for the contradictory behavior of the Swedes, who did not advance deep into the territory of the enemy and did not build a fortified camp.
                      There is no explanation for the strange behavior of Alexander, who did not notify about the attack of Yaroslav and did not collect the Novgorod militia.

                      It is not clear why after the battle the Swedes remained on the battlefield and were able to bury the dead.

                      There is no information about captured Swedes.


                      The information about the flooding of three Swedish ships seems unlikely.

                      It is not clear who killed the Swedes on the other side of the river.

                      The deceased Swedish commander bears the Russian name Spiridon.

                      A hypothesis is put forward about the joint attack of Alexander and the Karelians on the camp of Swedish merchants.
                      Also, my acquaintances from the history department went to the excavations of the estuary and the Lake of Chudskoye has been digged almost over the shoulder blade over the past 40 years, but they have not found anything.
                    5. Kostya pedestrian
                      Kostya pedestrian 14 June 2013 14: 41 New
                      +1
                      Just demagoguery of "Jews" paid for by the West. You analyze it yourself, the USA and NATO's "Caudla" shouted that they won a victory over the USSR in 1991, and where is it 1X Victory?

                      Arabs have taken away half of Europe!
                      USA shook from crises!
                      NATO is torn to pieces, so that at least how to squeeze out money for sponsors, because for them weapons are not free.
                      In Britain, all the snobs were driven to the islands, the Indians took away all the English brands and London


                      This is victory? And what does pro-propaganda write? Everything is OK, the wafferline is not yet under water, Europe is afloat!

                      Although now it is doubtful!
                    6. The comment was deleted.
                2. majorlnb
                  majorlnb 14 June 2013 00: 34 New
                  +3
                  You obviously have problems with history ... Read about the Crusaders. Very instructive. They considered Orthodox heretics ... Further explanations are needed?
                3. The comment was deleted.
                4. Kostya pedestrian
                  Kostya pedestrian 14 June 2013 14: 25 New
                  0
                  You said wonderful, but even more remarkable, that the Head of the Russian Orthodox Church, Father Kirill, will say about this - I googled here just now who arranged the terrorist attack in the Minsk metro opposite the House of Soviet Officers, and came across a completely official club of the Teutonic Order in Smolensk.

                  It seems to me that if this is permissible in the cradle of Russian culture, then the Russian Orthodox Church should anathematize Finberg's film "Alexander Nevsky" as heretical, where it is personally shown how the Teutons burn old people alive and even young children.

                  PieS: I’m not interested in heraldry, and now I’m interested in the coat of arms of Vitebsk, the admirers there are also very successful at operating bastards with an English chivalrous bias, and this is not great, at least for people who honor the memory of Vladimir, the founder of Russia.
          2. Aaron Zawi
            Aaron Zawi 13 June 2013 17: 59 New
            -23
            Quote: Atlon
            Quote: seasoned
            why are you crucifying here?

            Why do you argue with known facts?

            Enough of the next Barkashov sculpt. He even had eggs to take an automatic machine, and here you are at the forum, you vomit your neo-Nazi ideas.
            PS Although probably the State of Israel like you should pay extra. Nobody helps him like you and your accomplices.
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Aaron Zawi
              Aaron Zawi 13 June 2013 18: 37 New
              -28
              Quote: Atlon
              Quote: Aron Zaavi
              Although probably like you

              Do not poke me, God's chosen one.

              You yourself are a God-bearer. And with Natsik like you, I’m only on you and preferably through a collimator.
            3. Ratibor12
              Ratibor12 13 June 2013 19: 37 New
              15
              Jews in terms of genocide are excellent students of the fascists. Why deny the obvious? request Modern Israel must be destroyed, like Carthage, as an evil pseudo-state-military base and the nest of Jewish Nazism. The Jewish-Anglo-Saxon half-breeds from the elites of different countries deserved their colimator. They cannot be corrected, just like Hitler.
            4. Rattenfanger
              Rattenfanger 13 June 2013 19: 45 New
              +9
              Quote: Ratibor12
              Modern Israel must be destroyed, like Carthage, as an evil pseudo-state-military base and the nest of Jewish Nazism.

              How politically incorrect! Do you not like Jews? Just for the very fact of their existence? Yes you, my friend, the fiend of hell! laughing

              Z.Y. Now the local IDF will attack you (and me). belay
            5. toldanger
              toldanger 13 June 2013 20: 17 New
              +8
              All this Tsahal as a soap bubble will burst soon. Pumped with steroids does not live long. Forever mattresses will not be able to feed.
            6. _Forgiven_
              _Forgiven_ 13 June 2013 23: 24 New
              +4
              After such words, be afraid of the "Mossadites" pissing everywhere. More often look around, maybe a hired killer is following you behind you for such words))) smile
          3. toldanger
            toldanger 13 June 2013 20: 15 New
            +1
            I think sooner or later we will wait for this.
        2. YARY
          YARY 13 June 2013 21: 17 New
          14
          Boy, Antoshka, are you cheating on Russians? True, she’s an evil thing like pepper.
          Paul said the right thing. Hitler was incited by bankers from the inhabitants of the Israeli Valley by birth. The currents are not the ones that shovel the boots, but those that the profits count.
          And lope entih non-Russians chichaza on the Russian oil pipe sit ah? and on diamonds? and on luminium and so forth. ???
          But at the expense of your formidable words about the colimator, do not confuse x with a finger, your idol was fought in the 80s, and if fate and "our commanders will let your uniforms be torn against Russian bayonets."
          Voucher in the Gollan!
        3. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi 13 June 2013 21: 37 New
          -8
          Quote: Ardent

          But at the expense of your formidable words about the colimator, do not confuse x with a finger, your idol was fought in the 80s, and if fate and "our commanders will let your uniforms be torn against Russian bayonets."
          Voucher in the Gollan!

          First of all, nonsense, about how the IDF someone "tore" in the 80s, please expand on it.
          Secondly, always ready. Although I am already in the "second stage" reserve, but for 20 years of urgent and reserve service, I dare to hope I have mastered the MAG quite well.
        4. YARY
          YARY 13 June 2013 22: 24 New
          +8
          Arguing with the enemy is an ungrateful thing. Everything is learned in action.
          Firstly, nonsense, about how the IDF someone "tore" in the 80s,

          Our baby's air defense "OSA" DRALA your Air Force so that SySchyashka began to transfer her flyers to you, this time.
          Well, about the fight under Anna, yours are silent like a mouse under a broom. And not just like that. Otherwise, the myth of "Merkavka" was blown away by dust.
          And this is due to the fact that you have piled up with the whole gang and the USSR did not want to be pulled into a kettlebell with Afghanistan on its feet.
          I’m telling you a little rosemia, and your squeak to the whole world about the current S-300s is again not an army, but only a weapon, it speaks for itself.
          Your mistake in the miscalculation of forces. Well, do not be sad, and it was inaccessible to the mathmatics of Hitler. The result is known.
          Do not forget that the "gosudarstvo" your birth is OBLIGATORY to the USSR, in other words, Russian! And what is called that the feeding hand bites?
          There are Jews, and there are Residents of the Israeli Valley, you have shown yourself as the last.
        5. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi 13 June 2013 23: 00 New
          -6
          Clear. Just to blurt out, without knowledge, but with a huge aplomb. (Ignore)
        6. vyatom
          vyatom 14 June 2013 12: 18 New
          0
          And the Israeli Dakar that sank with the entire crew?
    2. Ratibor12
      Ratibor12 13 June 2013 22: 51 New
      +5
      Quote: Aron Zaavi
      Firstly, nonsense, about how the IDF someone "tore" in the 80s, please reveal more broadly. Secondly, I am always ready. Although I am already in the "second stage" reserve, but for 20 years of urgent and reserve service, I dare to hope I have mastered the MAG quite well.


      Do not underestimate the enemy. If the Eretz would have been weak, and his soldiers would have been quite stupid, the United States would not have helped them either. They would crush them back in the 60-70s. Yes, the Jews learned to fight. But what kind of Jews are they? Half-breeds solid. And there are many who absorbed the best of our mentality.
      That's just the Nazis fought well. But this did not make their crimes less disgusting, and their ideology less monstrous.
      There are no invincibles and the championship is not given once and for all. The disappearance of the Erez is a matter of time. For the time being, the jug carries water ...
    3. YARY
      YARY 13 June 2013 23: 29 New
      +8
      Eh, males and no matzo. Minus no minus anyway you get ....
      In the 70s in their gang there were many "former" with the experience of the Great Patriotic War, but in the 80s, too much less manenko.Da can fight with the Arabs, with the aircraft carrier SyShyAshki and "New Jersey" in the roadstead and the marines on the shore!
      Full support is bish.
      But "Sam" will run out of gasoline, that is, money for the mess? Or are their agents in SyShyShka annoying us? Here are the tady and we will joke whose cherries ate the cherries. I think the Arabs and will help nadot.
  2. toldanger
    toldanger 13 June 2013 20: 15 New
    +5
    I join +1. These guys, too, owed me a duty.
  3. Makk
    Makk 13 June 2013 21: 34 New
    +2
    It was the demoniac who helped you decide to live in your "homeland".
  4. alicante11
    alicante11 14 June 2013 07: 08 New
    +1
    The word sometimes beats more than the machine gun and you, the Ishail troll, know this very well if you hang around and yap at every Russian.
  5. psdf
    psdf 14 June 2013 10: 07 New
    +2
    I would never know who Barkashov was, if not for Spiegel with his advertisement.
  • Rattenfanger
    Rattenfanger 13 June 2013 17: 17 New
    +6
    Quote: Atlon
    Compare the figures of the dead Jews, with other nations.

    Plus, mostly the elderly and the crippled died. The young left. In Palestine. No, no, I'm not hinting at anything! Just a coincidence, do you agree?
    1. atalef
      atalef 13 June 2013 19: 28 New
      -7
      Quote: Rattenfanger
      Plus, mostly the elderly and the crippled died. The young were leaving. In Palestine

      He knew well that such a young man who had left in Poland in the 30s (with his brother from Poland) in Palestine (where there was nothing besides sand and malaria. How to build the country and how in one day (after the capture of Hitler by Poland) were left alone, out of 12 brothers and there were no sisters, fathers, mothers, dozens of uncles, aunts and relatives in general.
      From small to large, they all destroyed.
      Israil Gershlag, his name was (heaven be upon him), told enough. By the way
      Natalie Portman (born Natalie Portman, nee Natalie Hershlag [1] [2], born Natalie Hershlag, Hebrew נטלי הרשלג; born June 9, 1981 [3]) is an American film and theater actress of Israeli descent.
      American and Israeli actress Natalie Portman (née Herschlag - Natali Portman) was born in Jerusalem on June 9, 1981. As a stage name, Portman Natalie took the maiden name of her Russian-Jewish maternal grandmother. The girl’s father is a specialist in reproductive endocrinology and infertility treatment. Prior to repatriation to Israel, he worked in the Chisinau hospital. Mom Natalie was a housewife and singer in the Chisinau Opera and Ballet Theater, and now is the agent of her daughter.

      On the maternal side, the ancestors of the actress are Jews from Austria and Russia, and on the paternal side, Jews from Poland and Romania.

      The granddaughter of his sibling, the only survivors of the entire vast family.
      Quote: Rattenfanger
      Just a coincidence

      Far from coincidence Your company led by Athlone negative .
      1. Rattenfanger
        Rattenfanger 13 June 2013 19: 34 New
        +4
        That's right. The state in such conditions can only be built by the young and the strong, but not by the old. It is this goal that was pursued by those who "bash" - to make a mass of capable people scattered throughout Europe blow up from their homes.
      2. Papakiko
        Papakiko 13 June 2013 20: 26 New
        12
        Quote: atalef
        were left alone, out of 12 brothers and sisters, father. mothers. dozens of uncles. aunt and relatives in general, no one left. From small to large, everyone was destroyed.

        Give you examples about Belarusian and Ukrainian families in which from 40 people (brothers and sisters with families) survived 5-6 ?!
        Or are you already covering your mouthpiece of Xenophobia and Calacosta?
        1. _Forgiven_
          _Forgiven_ 13 June 2013 23: 39 New
          +4
          +1 !!! It was said a lot and quite in topic. good The God-chosen ones have already lifted this Holocaust to heaven that you cannot already be attached to any sleeve ...
        2. atalef
          atalef 14 June 2013 09: 10 New
          +5
          Quote: Papakiko
          Give you examples about Belarusian and Ukrainian families in which from 40 people (brothers and sisters with families) survived 5-6 ?!
          Or are you already covering your mouthpiece of Xenophobia and Calacosta?

          Unlike you, I never downplayed the loss of either of those. And the presence of Slavs, Gypsies, and any other peoples who died (destroyed) by the Nazis does not reduce or increase the tragedy of the Jews.
          You are trying to hush up the extermination of Jews by the fact that Belarusians. Russian-also destroyed (although your friend Athlone seems to be Hitler ready to write to friends)
          I say that fascism is monstrous and every nation has its own tragedy and a Jew who is destroyed as a child is no more valuable than a Belarusian child. Ukrainian or gypsy.
          Fascism is terrible, Hitler is a monster and executioner. And there is nothing for him to justify and catch him as friends and allies. Remember your innocently destroyed, we remember ours. only the common base of these victims — Hitler and Nazism — cannot be forgotten.
        3. karbofos
          karbofos 14 June 2013 14: 12 New
          +1
          atalef wrote everything correctly. and I think most of the people on the site will agree with you. But the question is WHO !!! did Hitler help him turn around like that? What do you think? hi
    2. alicante11
      alicante11 14 June 2013 07: 15 New
      0
      I knew well that such a young man who had left in the 30 years (
      Quote: atalef
      I knew well that such a young man who had left in the 30 years (


      Etozh how old are you, Judah tribe? Why did you know them so well?
      And what did you try to say with your post?
  • Vadivak
    Vadivak 13 June 2013 17: 20 New
    +7
    Quote: Atlon
    Compare the figures of the dead Jews, with other nations


    I’m writing about Slavs, my wife’s only her grandmother ran away from the SS men to the woods and you’re getting Hitler to us as our allies, aren’t you ashamed?





    1. Atlon
      Atlon 13 June 2013 17: 27 New
      10
      Quote: Vadivak
      Are you here to get Hitler to us as allies, aren't you ashamed?

      No need to juggle! Hitler could have been an ally, but he was sent ... As for Germany and Russia in general, historically we ALWAYS weighed on each other, but Britain always did not like this. For the union of Germany and Russia, in a completely different way would lead the development of the world and history. Without Britain ... The Germans enjoyed working in Russia, the Russian tsars married German princesses, the great Catherine was German! If not for the machinations of Britain ...
      1. Vadivak
        Vadivak 13 June 2013 17: 28 New
        +3
        Quote: Atlon
        No need to juggle! Hitler could be an ally, but he was sent.


        Everything is clear to me, tell it to veterans and better at the Eternal Flame






        1. Atlon
          Atlon 13 June 2013 17: 36 New
          +1
          Quote: Vadivak
          Everything is clear to me, tell it to veterans and better at the Eternal Flame

          Are you a provocateur?
        2. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 13 June 2013 17: 47 New
          -2
          Quote: Atlon
          Are you a provocateur?

          Oh ma why did you give birth to me belay I advise you to re-read Griboyedov's story "Woe from Wit" winked
        3. Atlon
          Atlon 13 June 2013 17: 56 New
          +6
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          I advise you to re-read Griboyedov's story "Woe from Wit"

          However ... "Woe from Wit" turns out to be a story ?! belay Hmm ... What else have you read? "Narrative" "War and Peace" have not tried? laughing
        4. The comment was deleted.
        5. atalef
          atalef 13 June 2013 18: 19 New
          -12
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Quote: Athlone
          However ... "Woe from Wit" turns out to be a story?
          However, immediately you do not master all four parts and therefore start small. So, for a brief look

          Atlon's handbook. By the way, coloring (since he has some problems with reading)
  • Vadivak
    Vadivak 13 June 2013 19: 45 New
    +4
    Quote: Atlon
    Are you a provocateur?


    You wrote down Hitler, who destroyed millions of Russians, asks me allies?
  • ded10041948
    ded10041948 14 June 2013 07: 01 New
    0
    Excuse me, Pavel, but from your statements it smells very strongly of anti-Semitism. If they came from the ideologists of the OUN-UPA, I would not be surprised, but to associate a bunch of bankers (albeit enjoying enormous economic influence) with a whole nation that has centuries-old culture and traditions ... Does it not seem to you that you behave somewhat biased?
  • experienced
    experienced 13 June 2013 17: 35 New
    +7
    Quote: Atlon
    Hitler could be an ally, but he was sent ...

    The Wehrmacht had allies Hungarians, Bulgarians, ROA, Galicia and how did they relate to them? Like cattle and cannon fodder. Recently there was an article - Galician's memories of how they slept in the crib. So not all allies are good and the alliance does not last forever, but tends to end. Well, the appetite comes with eating
    1. atalef
      atalef 13 June 2013 17: 37 New
      +1
      Quote: seasoned
      The Wehrmacht had allies Hungarians, Bulgarians, ROA, Galicia and how did they relate to them? Like cattle and cannon fodder. Recently there was an article - Galician's memories of how they slept in the barn.

      afflicted, as much as a tear knocks. Especially when you consider that they were all volunteers.
  • Alexander Romanov
    Alexander Romanov 13 June 2013 17: 43 New
    +2
    Quote: Atlon
    Hitler could be an ally

    Reread Dostoevsky's story "I.D.I.O.T" wink
    Quote: Atlon
    As for Germany and Russia in general, historically we ALWAYS gravitated towards each other

    How many times has Germany attacked Russia? I advise you to re-read the story "" twice fool
    Quote: Atlon
    If not for the machinations of Britain ...

    Wait a minute, Pavel, aren't the Jews to blame for everything? laughing You already decide who is to blame laughing
    1. atalef
      atalef 13 June 2013 17: 47 New
      +1
      Quote: Athlone
      To begin with, Hitler himself was a quarter-Jew. Grandfather is a Jew. Or perhaps even a half-Jew, the son of a neighbor - a Jew.
      Hitler's childhood friends were Jews, for example, his best friend Hanish.
      Jews financed Hitler and helped him come to power. And even all his associates in the Nazi party were mixed with Jewish blood: Himmler, Hess, Heydrich, Eichmann, Canaris, ... and Goebbels also, the teachers and fiancé were Jews.

      Get fucked up, now I realized that Israel attacked the USSR, damn whom my grandfather fought with. wassat
    2. Ratibor12
      Ratibor12 13 June 2013 19: 42 New
      +7
      Quote: atalef
      Get fucked up, now I realized that Israel attacked the USSR, damn whom my grandfather fought with.


      Israel? Let there be Israel. We don't care what kind of aggressor we press. ... Rotten "Jewish" evil spirits will drive a bullet in the forehead. We will put together a strong coffin for the offspring of humanity ...
    3. toldanger
      toldanger 13 June 2013 20: 19 New
      +3
      It is comrade!
  • Atlon
    Atlon 13 June 2013 17: 57 New
    +6
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    Reread Dostoevsky's story "I.D.I.O.T"

    Again a story? laughing Oh well...
  • Alexander Romanov
    Alexander Romanov 13 June 2013 18: 02 New
    -6
    Quote: Atlon
    Again a story?

    Well, I think with this approach to the work you will not pull more, the Jews will not let me finish laughing
  • alicante11
    alicante11 14 June 2013 07: 36 New
    +3
    Dear Atlon.
    I would only be "for" if I could share the spheres of influence with the Germans and even for an alliance with Hitler against the world Jewish capital.
    BUT ... unfortunately, this was not real. The Jewish elite of the Naglo-Saxon countries carefully chose just such an inhuman as Hitler for the role of leader of Germany. And precisely because he was infected with the poison of anti-communism and racial theories. Remember where they first talked about the purity of the race? In England. So how could Hitler destroy his teachers and colleagues in the struggle against communism and in building a pure Aryan race?
    Hitler never wanted to defeat England. He only wanted the neutrality of England. But England did not need a strong Hitler. He was raised like a pig in a slaughterhouse. So that he would destroy the USSR, and then destroy it. But even realizing this, Hitler did not begin to land in England and released the British at Dunkirk. Because he tried all the way to negotiate with them.
    Therefore, he would never go for a real alliance with the USSR and for an honest (no trick) division of spheres of influence would not go.
  • Ratibor12
    Ratibor12 13 June 2013 19: 27 New
    +4
    Quote: Atlon
    Hitler could be an ally

    We don't need such an ally. What does a communist have in common with a fascist? These are religions of antipodes. Good and Evil in their extreme manifestations. Such a "union" would blacken the entire Communist Idea. "So a clear stream becomes muddy. When it merges with a muddy stream." (E.L. Masters)
  • Setrac
    Setrac 13 June 2013 21: 58 New
    +1
    Quote: Atlon
    Hitler could be an ally, but he was sent ...

    Exactly, Hitler was sent, so he could not be our ally.
  • Apollo
    Apollo 13 June 2013 22: 36 New
    0
    Quote: Atlon
    Hitler could be an ally, but he was sent ..


    I see in your comments, you’ve gone a long way, there is only a little bit left to the red line. Don’t forget where you live and what Internet resource you are on. Sometimes it’s at your leisure to think about it. If your memory is abused, I’ll tell you I will remind you immediately.
    1. aleshka1987
      aleshka1987 13 June 2013 23: 08 New
      +6
      Dear moderator, well, here you clearly exceed the authority! Hitler was clearly helped to figure out who his enemy was ... persistently helped, and they also threw the fiscals.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Apollo
      Apollo 13 June 2013 23: 37 New
      +2
      Quote: aleshka1987
      Well, here you clearly exceed the authority! Hitler was clearly helped to figure out who his enemy was ... persistently helped, and they also threw the fiscals.



      Dear visitor, I, like you, also write my comments on this or that thread. Or do you think that I am only moderating ?! Do not forget that we recently celebrated 9 May, Victory Day. By the way, this should be remembered not only on a memorable day. and every day. And yet, I perfectly caught the subtext of what was written in the commentary of the person you are defending. We will not delve into the jungle. We understand each other perfectly.
    4. aleshka1987
      aleshka1987 13 June 2013 23: 57 New
      10
      Yes, Hitler is shit, no one bleaches him! Simply, as they say, there are nuances everywhere. He was raised with a clear goal - to devour the USSR, he kicked up a bit at 39. They gently besieged him, and unobtrusively showed "You go there!" and we will accept you as equals (which was initially not true). Hitler was not a jerk, as we are sometimes painted, he was a very intelligent and determined opponent. This fact only increases the authority of our Red Army and leadership. We defeated a powerful enemy, not only smart, but also with the support of the global financial mafia, industry throughout Europe, armies of vassals and raw materials from different places! This is a super feat!
    5. sincman
      sincman 14 June 2013 11: 09 New
      +4
      Quote: aleshka1987
      He was raised with a clear goal - to devour the USSR, he kicked up a bit at 39. He was gently besieged, and unobtrusively showed "You go there!" and we will accept you as equals (which was initially not true).

      This topic is perfectly covered in the book by Nikolai Starikov, "Who made Hitler attack Stalin?"


      Abstract

      This book is about who pushed Hitler to commit a suicide attack on Stalin. About the true creators and inspirers of the most terrible catastrophe in the history of Russia - June 22, 1941. Those who gave Hitler and his party money and helped them come to power. The true purpose of bringing the Nazis to power is shown - an attack on the USSR, "correction" of the previous mistake of Western intelligence, which put the Bolsheviks at the head of Russia. Instead of disappearing along with the loot, Lenin and his team remained and recreated the power, refusing to “surrender” the country to the West. The book, based on a large amount of factual material, traces the entire logic of events, from September 1919 until June 22, 1941. As a result, the reader understands who is the true arsonist of World War II, which means that he and the Nazis are responsible for their heinous crimes.


      http://www.litmir.net/bd/?b=111843
  • alicante11
    alicante11 14 June 2013 07: 27 New
    +7
    Excuse me, why are Jews allowed ALL on this resource? And insult the Russian forum participants and slop down our country, its army, weapons, etc. And if they are answered the same, then in five minutes 4 warnings and ban. Is this a Russian or Jewish resource? Judging by the flags of most of the participants, it’s Russian, and judging by the moderation policy, it’s rather Jewish.
    And what is the "red line"? It was about dividing spheres of influence. Why couldn't we share spheres of influence with Hitler? If he had not attacked the USSR? What do we care about "developed" Europeans and, moreover, European Jews? Well, we would cry over their ashes scattered over Auschwitz. And they would live on. Just like the American Jews did. They didn't even cry about the 30 million ruined Slavic souls.
  • meandr51
    meandr51 21 September 2017 12: 38 New
    0
    God save us from such "allies"! Hitler and Germany are not the same thing. Hitler is a puppet of the world financial oligarchy, he and all his cockroaches were specially selected, fed, armed and released to push Europe and Eurasia together. What he successfully did, killing himself in the end. So it was conceived. Well, besides preserving the USSR.
    And with a sane independent (or dependent, like the GDR) Germany can be dealt with. It is only necessary to help them gain independence and ensure that no one decides to repeat the fascist story ...
  • Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi 13 June 2013 18: 17 New
    -14
    on the Internet to check what you write is not fate? The Morgans, Rockefellers and Dupons are not Jews, but Anglo-Saxons.
    1. DeerIvanovich
      DeerIvanovich 13 June 2013 18: 41 New
      10
      and how long have they signed up for Anglo-Saxons? laughing
      1. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 13 June 2013 19: 10 New
        -3
        Quote: DeerIvanovich
        and how long have they signed up for Anglo-Saxons? laughing

        Do you also use the Internet is not fate?
        1. DeerIvanovich
          DeerIvanovich 13 June 2013 20: 31 New
          +4
          they write a lot on the Internet. you brought an argument, but you don’t want to prove it No.
        2. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi 13 June 2013 21: 05 New
          -3
          Dupons - financial and industrial group (family) of the United States, established at the end of the XIX century.
          The ancestor of the family was the student of Antoine Laurent Lavoisier Eleater Irené Dupont de Nemours, who sailed in 1800 from France to the USA. The lessons of the famous chemist were not in vain for the young aristocrat. In the USA, he raised 36 thousand dollars and with the help of partners in the 1802 year founded the company for the production of gunpowder in Delaware. Initially, the company was called EI Dupont de Nemours, but in the XX century it was renamed Dupont.
          Dupont's case was continued by his children. In 1900, his heirs, great-grandchildren Thomas Coleman, Pierre Samuel and Alfred Irene Dupont completely rebuilt the company and in 1902 created a concern to develop the latest materials.
          Currently, the industrial core of the group is the DuPont de Nemours concern. The company has huge profits, for example, in the production of nylon products alone, it earns $ 4,5 billion annually. Dupons control a number of large industrial corporations (General Motors, United States Rubber, Uniroyal, Rockwell International, etc.) and financial institutions.
          about the rest you find?
        3. alicante11
          alicante11 14 June 2013 07: 41 New
          +4
          Yeah, and Trotsky was Bronstein. Few Jews took the names of others of the local population?
        4. karbofos
          karbofos 14 June 2013 14: 35 New
          +2
          and tell us about Baruchov? hi
  • toldanger
    toldanger 13 June 2013 20: 19 New
    -2
    Come on only without trolling.
  • Orik
    Orik 13 June 2013 17: 20 New
    10
    This was not gratitude, but a ritual sacrifice. With her help and with a loud guevalte about the "poor Jewish people" the state of Israel was created. Then these "poor" slaughtered entire Palestinian villages, and millions of them were expelled from their places of residence. The Yidov elites wanted to spit on a million ordinary Jews, and even more so on other nations. Soon they will need to restore the Temple of Solomon, how many people in this case will be demolished is not known, but certainly not a few.
    1. atalef
      atalef 13 June 2013 17: 39 New
      -1
      Quote: Orik
      Soon they will need to restore the temple of Solomon, how many people in this case will not be demolished, but certainly not a few.

      Well, no more than he lives in Israel, or will they go to the slaughter from all over the world? belay laughing
  • Middle-brother
    Middle-brother 13 June 2013 17: 49 New
    +3
    Quote: Vadivak

    And he thanked them for it. Now everything fell into place. And Babi Yar and Auschwitz.

    I apologize for the rude comparison, but here, in a joke - "the eggs were cut off to the wrong Jew." The wrong Jews brought Hitler to power
  • nnz226
    nnz226 14 June 2013 15: 55 New
    +1
    Well, if you believe the statistics of the Holocaust, then 6-7 million Jews died in it (including the extermination of Jews in the USSR). Let's move on to the Slavs: almost 27 million people died in the USSR, of which there were combat losses at the fronts - 8-9 million. The remaining 18-19 million are civilians and prisoners of war, killed by the "humane European nation" and believe me, the percentage of Jews in these millions does not exceed 3-4% !!! And the rest - Russian Ukrainians, Belarusians! So it is NECESSARY TO SPEAK NOT ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST, BUT ABOUT THE HECATOMBE OF THE SLAVS !!! And if we add Poles and Serbs (also Slavs and millions of dead) here, then the figures of the Holocaust look small!
  • experienced
    experienced 13 June 2013 17: 01 New
    +6
    Quote: Atlon
    Do you seriously think that a former corporal and a failed architect and artist, suddenly waking up in the morning, was not completely overshadowed by these ideas? The Jews brought Hitler to power. Jewish industrialists worked for the German defense industry. The ideas of the superiority of one race over the rest are drawn from the Jewish religion, and the practical embodiment from the Jewish "science" of Eugenics.

    Yes, continuous conspiracy theories and denunciations of Zionism. The whole of Europe worked for the defense industry of Germany, and it remains on your conscience where and where, but the idea of ​​the superiority of individual tribes over others goes almost from the Stone Age lol As if I do not belong to the Jews, but blaming them for all the troubles has long been "anecdotal".
    Hitler would not stop in his expansion - fertile lands and coal (USSR - (minus) Ukraine), oil (USSR - Caucasus), wood, ore (USSR - along the Urals), then gold and diamonds (- Yakutia) and all. hi
    1. Atlon
      Atlon 13 June 2013 17: 22 New
      +2
      Quote: seasoned
      As if I do not belong to the Jews, but blaming them for all the troubles has long been "anecdotal".

      Think it's casual? Here take an interest: http://cagal.clan.su/index/0-71
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 13 June 2013 17: 35 New
        +3
        Quote: Atlon
        Think it's casual?

        Of course not, the Jews are to blame for everything! wink
        1. atalef
          atalef 13 June 2013 17: 40 New
          -5
          Quote: Atlon
          You think it's casual

          Athlone is pleased to feel like an inferior race. Otherwise, why would he repeat this all the time
          ?
          1. atalef
            atalef 13 June 2013 18: 03 New
            -3
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Reread Dostoevsky's story "I.D.I.O.T.

            Quote: Athlone

            Again a story? Oh well..

            Again sister ask to read crying
          2. Ratibor12
            Ratibor12 13 June 2013 20: 01 New
            10
            Quote: atalef
            Athlone is pleased to feel like an inferior race. Otherwise, why would he repeat this all the time?

            Yes Yes! Oh, these are your Jewish complexes! Why not see!
            Well, for example:
            Quote: MironK
            "... our state was here 300000 years ago, when your distant ancestors ran through the swamps with bare asses and ate each other raw ..."
            The boy was so stingy at Claudia that he forgot to count the zeros! Although ... Maybe you really are from the breed of gracile Australopithecus?

            And one more thing!
            "... I am a Jew, my mother told me from childhood that all the goyim are anti-Semites. At first I did not believe, but then I realized that in fact it is true. Even if a goy does not consider himself an anti-Semitic, all the same, sooner or later his anti-Semitism Even if he is not an anti-Semite himself, his children and grandchildren will be anti-Semites. Anti-Semites will be as long as at least one goy lives. For a Jew, living among the goy is like living among bloodthirsty zombies, pretending that you are a zombie yourself, the same as they ... "

            It turns out the zombie apocalypse has already happened !!! All the zombies! And the Jews ... And the Jews are survivors !!! fellow
            1. tixon444
              tixon444 13 June 2013 20: 39 New
              +7
              Quote: Ratibor12
              Anti-Semites will be as long as at least one goy is alive.


              Anti-Semites will be as long as at least one Jew is alive.
              For the God-chosen themselves produce anti-Semites. Without them, they do not feel God-chosen.

              “Rabinovich, that means you want to borrow five thousand dollars from me.” And where is the guarantee that you will return them to me?
              “I give you the word of an honest man!” hi
              “Well, I'm waiting for you tonight with this man.” yes
          3. alicante11
            alicante11 14 June 2013 07: 47 New
            +3
            Although I’m not Atlon, I think I can answer you.
            The question is not in the lower race. The lower ones are precisely those who consider the lower ones to be others.
            The fact is that the Jews too exalted themselves over others.
            Remember the statements of your kagal about the fact that Israel has the right to bomb Syria, and everyone else "let them try."
  • Corsair5912
    Corsair5912 13 June 2013 18: 35 New
    +2
    Quote: Atlon

    The Jews brought Hitler to power. Jewish industrialists worked for the German defense industry. The ideas of the superiority of one race over the rest are drawn from the Jewish religion, and the practical embodiment from the Jewish "science" of Eugenics.

    It was not the Jews who brought Hitler to power, but the British, the Americans and the French, the Jewish bankers only gave money.
    There were no Jewish industrialists in nature. The owners of the factories Krupp, Thyssen, Opel, Messerschmitt, Focke-Wulf, Daimler-Benz, Henschel, Demag, etc. were Germans.
    1. _Forgiven_
      _Forgiven_ 13 June 2013 23: 59 New
      +3
      I agree with you more! Amer and the British choked with hatred for the Union when the country began to rise rapidly. It hurt their pride! How is it ... In the USSR, people began to live better than in the Foggy Albion or in New York? you have to do something about it! And let's create Hitler, and then we will liquidate him. But their fish turned out to be too tough for them.
      Only the patriotism of our soldiers and the struggle for the idea helped to win this in the war, and not the loot of the mines of Tsar Solomon.
      1. Oberst_71
        Oberst_71 14 June 2013 06: 45 New
        +2
        There is no need to underestimate the role played in the creation of Bolshevism and genuine participation in the Russian revolution, of international Jewish atheists. Moreover, the main inspiration and driving force comes from the Jewish leaders. In Soviet institutions, the predominance of Jews is more than surprising, and the main part in the implementation of the terror system established by the emergency Commission against Counter-Revolution was carried out by Jews and, in some cases, Jews. The same diabolical fame was achieved by the Jews during the terror period when Bela Kun ruled Hungary.
        W. Churchill 1919
        1. Corsair5912
          Corsair5912 14 June 2013 18: 07 New
          0
          Quote: Oberst_71
          There is no need to underestimate the role played in the creation of Bolshevism and genuine participation in the Russian revolution, of international Jewish atheists. Moreover, the main inspiration and driving force comes from the Jewish leaders. In Soviet institutions, the predominance of Jews is more than surprising, and the main part in the implementation of the terror system established by the emergency Commission against Counter-Revolution was carried out by Jews and, in some cases, Jews. The same diabolical fame was achieved by the Jews during the terror period when Bela Kun ruled Hungary.
          W. Churchill 1919

          You followed the Jewish propagandists of the times of perestroika.
          In fact, the Jews of the beginning and the middle of the 20 century did not have any political and economic influence in the world, they had no territory, no army, no special services, no media, or press.
          Jews were the most oppressed and illiterate people in Europe, so their activity was high in all European revolutions.
          But in the first Soviet People’s Commissar of the RSFSR of 16 members there was only 1 Jew Trotsky, in the political bureau of the CPSU (b) there was only 1 Jew Kaganovich, the first head of the GULAG was Eichmans Theodor Ivanovich, a Latvian shooter, the subsequent heads were not Jews, but Latvians.
          IN AND. Ulyanov (Lenin), no matter how russophobes spoken, was Russian both by blood and spirit, until 16 years he was an active member of the Orthodox society of Sergius of Radonezh in Simbirsk.
  • MG42
    MG42 13 June 2013 19: 59 New
    +5
    Quote: Atlon
    Do you seriously think that the former corporal and the failed architect and artist, who suddenly woke up in the morning, was not completely overlooked by these ideas

    Hitler would have painted better than obsessed with politics ..
    here are 130 of his drawings by reference
    http://postdefender.ru/kartiny-adolfa-gitlera-130-foto/
    1. Corsair
      Corsair 14 June 2013 01: 31 New
      +3
      Quote: MG42
      Hitler would have painted better than obsessed with politics ..

      Is it interesting to keep history the name of the GOAT that did not accept Hitler to an art school and thus turned history? I painted, in my pleasure, the failed Fuhrer of butterflies and still lifes and all business recourse .
      1. MG42
        MG42 14 June 2013 01: 47 New
        +4
        Quote: Corsair
        I painted, to my pleasure, the failed Fuhrer of butterflies and still lifes and all business

        Hitler = a pretty good artist - a landscape painter, there are much fewer still lifes, he didn’t work very well on people's faces ..
        After the failure of the entrance exam in the hood. He met with the rector of the school and he advised him to take up architecture, seeing how he passionately painted buildings ..
        1. Corsair
          Corsair 15 June 2013 10: 50 New
          0
          Quote: MG42
          After the failure of the entrance exam in the hood. He met with the rector of the school and he advised him to take up architecture, seeing how he passionately painted buildings ..

          I’d better take it ...
  • S_mirnov
    S_mirnov 13 June 2013 17: 09 New
    16
    I am pleased to support your comment. From myself I want to add. In the war on the fronts, the most courageous, ideological communists perished in the first place, those who were the first to attack and lead the rest. It is hard to imagine how many future talented scientists, engineers, doctors, and military men died in battles.
    Of course - if it weren’t for the war, the history of the development of the USSR would be completely different and maybe the descendants of the brave people who were the first to attack would have managed to put a bullet in Gorbachev’s forehead. And the USSR would be alive.
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 13 June 2013 18: 14 New
      11
      Quote: S_mirnov
      if it weren’t for the war, the history of the development of the USSR would have been completely different and maybe the descendants of the brave people who were the first to attack would have managed to put a bullet in Gorbachev’s forehead. And the USSR would be alive.

      Yes, just "these" would not be allowed to power. Not even descendants, but the very ones that died!
      Smirnov! +++++++++
    2. Avenger711
      Avenger711 13 June 2013 19: 04 New
      +5
      They didn’t call scientists, but if they themselves went, they drove them out of the military enlistment offices. And the professors are not the same age. But how many young students who instead of laboratories fell into the trenches and did not accomplish what they could have done in 5-10, 20 years.
  • Alexander Romanov
    Alexander Romanov 13 June 2013 17: 30 New
    -2
    Quote: Atlon
    Hitler was set on Russia by Zionists and the British

    It means that Hitler was guilty of the Jews. ?????
    some are looking for causes, while others are looking for a consequence.
    Oops, the people my wind rose is the Jews to blame.
    Item No. 1. The Jews are to blame.
    Item No. 2. If the Jews are not to blame for something, see paragraph No. 1. wassat
    1. atalef
      atalef 13 June 2013 17: 35 New
      -3
      Quote: Athlone
      Hitler was set on Russia by Zionists and the British


      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      Item No. 1. The Jews are to blame.
      Item No. 2. If the Jews are not to blame for something, see paragraph No. 1.

      Hello ! Sasha.
      But Hitler was sent to Britain by the Zionists and ..... Who to insert. Atlon, in his anti-Semitic frenzy, has been blowing the roof for a long time.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 13 June 2013 18: 06 New
        -2
        Quote: atalef
        Atlon in his anti-Semitic frenzy

        Hi Sasha! And he has the surname Khmelnitsky, and my neighbor from the neighboring entrance has the surname Litvinsky, so my neighbor is Jewish. Here I sit and think, think so to speak laughing
        1. atalef
          atalef 13 June 2013 18: 13 New
          -2
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          And he has a surname Khmelnitsky

          Yes Sanya, here you will believe in the transmigration of souls. Yes, he is also Khmelnitsky.
          Few people know that three centuries before the mass extermination of Jews around the world, Ukraine already had murders similar to Nazi ones.

          The massacre of 1648 - 1649 It was arranged by Bogdan Khmelnytsky, the Ukrainian hetman who led the uprising against Polish rule. Since many Jews served with Polish nobles who owned land in Ukraine, the anger of Khmelnitsky turned against the Jews. Like Hitler, Khmelnitsky hated all Jews indiscriminately. It is believed that his Cossack units killed more than one hundred thousand Jews (at a time when world Jewry totaled no more than one and a half million people).


          Well, nothing, in the next life he is guaranteed 1000 years until he dies laughing
          1. Ratibor12
            Ratibor12 13 June 2013 19: 45 New
            0
            Quote: atalef
            Well, nothing, in the next life he is guaranteed 1000 years until he dies


            And you will be a Jew for a thousand years while you die ... belay
            1. atalef
              atalef 13 June 2013 19: 53 New
              -1
              Quote: Ratibor12
              And you will be a Jew for a thousand years while you die ...

              Thank . expensive.
              We want up to 120, you decided to bend, as I understand it. tongue Just why will you be a Jew. I am already a Jew. hi
              1. Ratibor12
                Ratibor12 13 June 2013 20: 09 New
                +3
                Quote: atalef
                Just why will you be a Jew. I am already a Jew.


                No. He is not a Jew yet. Larva or neophyte. Therefore and
                Quote: atalef
                decided to bend
                before passing the test. And it’s kind of like handing over a lab to a top cook. lol
        2. Atlon
          Atlon 13 June 2013 18: 25 New
          +2
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Hi Sasha! And he has a surname Khmelnitsky

          Do you see Katz? wink
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 13 June 2013 18: 29 New
            -1
            Quote: Atlon
            Do you see Katz?

            Look at the nickname, if you don’t see it, I recommend buying glasses tongue
            1. tixon444
              tixon444 13 June 2013 21: 05 New
              +7
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              Quote: Atlon
              Do you see Katz?

              Look at the nickname, if you don’t see it, I recommend buying glasses tongue


              Can we take a look? Ta-a-ak, Alexander Romanov ... And why with a small letter? Maybe not really Romanov? stories maybe? Since the works of Dostoevsky and Griboedov seem like stories to you? sad

              A Jew comes to the ship, he is introduced to the crew.
              - This is a boatswain, navigator, midshipman, pilot.
              - Bah! Yes, all of them are right there! My last name is Katsman.

              I have the honor. Tikhonov Pavel.
        3. zart_arn
          zart_arn 13 June 2013 19: 34 New
          0
          And he has a surname Khmelnitsky

          In - in, there is reason to think. laughing
        4. Corsair
          Corsair 14 June 2013 01: 16 New
          +1
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          And he has the surname Khmelnitsky, and my neighbor from the neighboring entrance has the surname Litvinsky, so my neighbor is Jewish. Here I sit and think, think so to speak

          Looks like?
    2. Apollo
      Apollo 13 June 2013 17: 36 New
      +8
      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      It means that Hitler was guilty of the Jews. ?????
      some are looking for causes, while others are looking for a consequence.
      Oops, the people my wind rose is the Jews to blame.
      Item No. 1. The Jews are to blame.
      Item No. 2. If the Jews are not to blame for something, see paragraph No. 1.



      I need to hold a competition for the coolest and coolest commentary, I think that your commentary, Alexander will be in the top five most original and unsurpassed comments of the VO forum. wassat
      1. Atlon
        Atlon 13 June 2013 17: 49 New
        +4
        Quote: Apollon
        it’s necessary to hold a competition for the coolest and coolest comment, I think that your comment, Alexander will be in the top five most original and unsurpassed comments of the VO forum

        Are you laughing? Oh well...
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 13 June 2013 18: 07 New
          -1
          Quote: Atlon
          Are you laughing? Oh well...

          I sit in a helmet and body armor, waiting for the attack of the Jews laughing
          1. experienced
            experienced 13 June 2013 18: 08 New
            +5
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            I sit in a helmet and body armor, waiting for the attack of the Jews

            Then steel pants will not hurt wassat
            And then kaaaak sneak up and kaaak cut on the most expensive laughing
          2. Atlon
            Atlon 13 June 2013 18: 27 New
            +4
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            I sit in a helmet and body armor, waiting for the attack of the Jews

            It's very funny ... And meanwhile, they have won you a long time ago and are shearing you like a ram ... And you read all the "stories" and play witty. I repeat for the stupid: well, well ...
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 13 June 2013 18: 34 New
              -3
              Quote: Atlon
              . Meanwhile, they won you a long time ago and cut you like a ram ..

              Why are you, they’re cutting me straight away ... moreover, like a ram, I’ll cry out all the money and I’ll call Khmelnitsky with me wink Pasha, did you say your business is small, what do you work under the roof of Jews? What is the name of the authority to whom you pay money Abram laughing
          3. Corsair
            Corsair 13 June 2013 23: 48 New
            +5
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            I sit in a helmet and body armor, waiting for the attack of the Jews

            Comments on the article have slipped to the level of shit mixing and figuring out who is HU, but the article is called:
            How would we live if there was no war?
      2. atalef
        atalef 13 June 2013 17: 56 New
        -4
        Are you laughing? Oh well...

        he sleeps with this poster sleeps. Imagine, I got up at night, piss, I saw a poster at the same time and .... wassat
    3. Atlon
      Atlon 13 June 2013 17: 44 New
      +1
      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      It means that Hitler was guilty of the Jews. ????? some are looking for a cause, while others are looking for a consequence.

      To begin with, Hitler himself was a quarter-Jew. Grandfather is a Jew. Or perhaps even a half-Jew, the son of a neighbor - a Jew.
      Hitler's childhood friends were Jews, for example, his best friend Hanish.
      Jews financed Hitler and helped him come to power. And even all his associates in the Nazi party were mixed with Jewish blood: Himmler, Hess, Heydrich, Eichmann, Canaris, ... and Goebbels also, the teachers and fiancé were Jews.

      So was Hitler an anti-Semite?

      The above indicates no. Rather, a Semite, or a semi-Jew. Hitler borrowed Nazi ideology from Alfred Rosenberg (from the Jews), and he, in turn, from the Talmud, the Jewish ideology of far-fetched superiority. How Hitler grew his hatred of the Jews, consider below. The only mystery remains Hitler's hatred of the Slavs.

      Either as a joke, or simply for practice, the British special services during World War II made a fake passport in the name of Adolf Hitler, indicating in the column "nationality" - a Jew. The first page of the document is printed with a red "J" for "Jude". It contains a fake visa issued by the "Palestinian government" and dated July 19, 1941.

      His real name is Adolf Aloisovich von Schicklgruber. Although he himself proclaimed purity in the nation, he was a half-breed. Maybe that's why he did not see the Jews and destroyed them.
    4. zart_arn
      zart_arn 13 June 2013 19: 31 New
      -1
      Quote: Atlon Zionists and British set on Hitler Russia

      Let's take a look at the history textbook, not far, two centuries ago. Who brought the most grief and misfortune to Russia during this time? "Seksontsy", "Yuda"? No, our "best" enemies are the paddling pool with the Prussians. Better shut up about incitement, the Corsican and the Austrian were far from half-witted. (.diot - here the word is abusive, does not pass)
    5. meandr51
      meandr51 21 September 2017 12: 42 New
      0
      What is their alibi?
  • Micex
    Micex 13 June 2013 17: 53 New
    -2
    Germany and the USSR calmly divided Poland, but could not divide the Balkans. Ideology entered into the matter and our country was attacked. Therefore, I support an alternative option for a possible division of spheres of influence if Britain had fallen before that. But this, unfortunately, is only from the version area
  • Revolver
    Revolver 13 June 2013 18: 49 New
    +8
    Quote: Atlon
    I wouldn’t attack. Hitler was set up against Russia by the Zionists and the British. There would be no one to set off.

    Have you read Mein Kampf? I read. It feels like a mixture of sleeping pills and emetic, despite all the efforts of the translator - the notorious Karl Radek - to make the translation at least somewhat readable. So, besides all other nonsense, it says in plain text that Germany must acquire the missing "living space" in the east at the expense of the Slavs, whom Adolf considered subhuman and hated almost as much as the Jews. In particular, I don’t remember how many times, but not once, Russia was mentioned, precisely as a reserve of "living space". So the question is "would you attack or not?" did not stand. The question was "when?" Do you really think that Hitler would have abandoned his plans? Note, ideological plans, which, unlike economic or even military plans, cannot be adjusted. Or would any of the Germans go against the beloved Fuhrer leading the German nation from victory to victory? It took a whole chain of defeats on the Eastern Front for the German generals to think about the displacement - no, not the beloved Fuhrer, but the "Czech corporal" his face as a snotty childhood in Austria-Hungary, but history is silent about this).
  • Tatar
    Tatar 14 June 2013 07: 19 New
    +5
    I propose to make Stalin the national leader. how Lenin was during the union, as Mao Zedong is now in China. The country needs an idea - the idea of ​​a strong and powerful state. these are not nationalist slogans where Russian is the main nation. all peoples of Russia should live in peace and harmony, but with some exploded personalities of individual nationalities, the conversation should be short.
  • vladimirZ
    vladimirZ 13 June 2013 16: 36 New
    13
    This is not an alternative story. These are concrete plans for the development of the USSR, interrupted by the war, and after the war foiled by anti-Stalinists led by Khrushchev.
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 13 June 2013 16: 57 New
      +8
      Quote: vladimirZ
      These are concrete plans for the development of the USSR,

      These are concrete plans that need to be brought back to life ... the truth is that now the oligarchs will have to fight. But there would be a desire and a will.
      1. Vadivak
        Vadivak 13 June 2013 17: 02 New
        +5
        Quote: Egoza
        These specific plans also need to be brought back to life.


        We lacked the Leader
        1. atalef
          atalef 13 June 2013 17: 42 New
          -1
          Quote: Vadivak
          We lacked the Leader

          There are few real violent, and there are no leaders
          wassat
          1. _Forgiven_
            _Forgiven_ 14 June 2013 00: 15 New
            0
            But there are no leaders because he will be surrendered immediately. Our people do not understand who is afraid of and does not go out to break stores when prices have risen, drivers do not go on strike if the price of fuel has risen, there are plenty of examples. There isn’t enough sunk in us, we have squandered since the collapse of Russia, we have become soft. Remember the history of Kievan Rus - European countries of that time had cowards only from talking about an attack on Russia. Our people then were tougher - a little bit wrong, right behind the sword and over the head. Because of this, they respected us and were afraid. And a little Volodya gave his daughter to the French, and traders trampled to us like flies to gov.n.o. There have always been warriors, and now warriors, it’s just that patience probably increased greatly with us ..
        2. Atlon
          Atlon 13 June 2013 17: 59 New
          0
          Quote: Vadivak
          We lacked the Leader

          "There are few real violent" (C)
  • DEfindER
    DEfindER 13 June 2013 16: 52 New
    +9
    Quote: seasoned
    why write articles about an alternative story? The war with Hitler was inevitable and it is not known how the USSR would have fallen asleep if Hitler occupied England (I think it would have managed in 1-2 years), and then in 1943-44 it would have attacked the USSR, and then it would certainly be with Japan and 100% without land - Lisa would have gone.

    Now, if Hitler attacked us after 1942, then he would have been put in such a piston that it would not have seemed! The Stalinist rearmament of the army just ended in 1942, and Hitler took advantage of this! And Lend Lease, I think it did no less harm than good, firstly, normal deliveries began after a radical change in the war in 1943, (if you do not believe, ask veterans), the cost of these deliveries went beyond all reasonable limits, i.e. The USSR lost almost all its gold reserves, which would be very useful after the war, plus everything, American equipment was very moody in our conditions, and often the soldiers preferred to keep it in reserve ..
    So the War was for us at its worst of all possible options!
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 13 June 2013 17: 04 New
      +6
      Quote: DEfindER
      Now, if Hitler attacked us after 1942


      That's right, he is a maniac, but not Idiot, hoping to be in time before rearmament otherwise he would not have fought on two fronts
    2. leon-iv
      leon-iv 13 June 2013 17: 18 New
      -2
      then he would have inserted such a piston that it would not have seemed! The Stalinist rearmament of the army just ended in 1942, and Hitler took advantage of this!

      Read less traitor rezun.
      1. Vadivak
        Vadivak 13 June 2013 21: 27 New
        +6
        Quote: leon-iv
        Read less traitor rezun.


        Did I write that the USSR wanted to attack Germany? Well guys turn on the brain
  • nerd.su
    nerd.su 13 June 2013 23: 35 New
    0
    Quote: seasoned
    Why write articles about an alternative story?

    At least then, to ponder - does China need a war, if everything is fine with it? And then a few days ago several panic articles on the topic of the Chinese threat appeared.

    Quote: seasoned
    The war with Hitler was inevitable and it is not known how the USSR would have fallen asleep if Hitler occupied England (I think it would have managed in 1-2 years), and then in 1943-44 it would have attacked the USSR, and then it would certainly be with Japan and 100% without land - Lisa would have gone.

    Well, you yourself immediately built an alternative version.
    But why would England fall so quickly? What do you think the states would merge their former metropolis? And even if England fell, the United States would not want our gold in exchange for its equipment and food?
  • alicante11
    alicante11 14 June 2013 06: 59 New
    +3
    We need to know what we have lost. To know WHAT to strive for. Not to devour your neighbor, professing the principle "you die today, and I will die tomorrow." Not to close behind the fences of Rublevka and behind the sticks of the private security guards from their fellow citizens. Not to plow from dawn to dawn without seeing your wife, children, enriching some oligarch. And then die in old age under the fence. Etc.
    And we must strive for what Comrade Stalin planned. They should strive to ensure that all Russian people live a full life, receiving maximum pleasure from it for their contribution to social wealth. Because he planned it for us. Maybe this article will be read by someone who in the future will be at the top of power. After all, the power of the oligarchs is not eternal, I hope so. And then he will already know which way he should go, and not wander in the dark, making mistakes, as Khrushchev made them, discarding the experience of his predecessor from ideological considerations.
  • dp_88
    dp_88 14 June 2013 10: 36 New
    +2
    In this case, consideration of an alternative development option is quite appropriate, since society is in a state of uncertainty and the search for meanings and directions. This alternative option, with some consideration of modern situational corrections, would undoubtedly lead the country out of the stopper of degradation. Another thing is that the current elite is not able to make such large-scale and radical transformations either for free will or for intellectual reasons.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Kostya pedestrian
    Kostya pedestrian 14 June 2013 15: 08 New
    0
    Why minus, a colleague brings his vision, and although I do not agree, it is proved by history - the Russians and the Entente and against the Entente were not defeated by the British and Japanese, whom the Red Army drove both from Murmansk and from Vladivostok
  • kvodrato
    kvodrato 14 June 2013 17: 49 New
    0
    The history of Russia or how they hid our past. WATCH TO THE END.
  • Nevsky
    Nevsky 13 June 2013 15: 43 New
    +5
    I haven’t read it, so why sprinkle ash on my head? You need to roll up your sleeves and go forward, for example, to USSR 2.0. wink But plus the author set for the effort.
    1. leon-iv
      leon-iv 13 June 2013 15: 45 New
      -11
      for example to the USSR 2.0

      so everything goes to a bright nuclear tomorrow.
      1. bogdan
        bogdan 13 June 2013 16: 14 New
        16
        Article plus. The causes of the collapse of the USSR must be known, for this is our history, who does not know history repeats the mistakes of the past.
        I would like to add, why do we need enemies when we had such "friends" (Khrushchev, Gorbachev and other Kravchuk with Kuchma)
        1. Corsair
          Corsair 13 June 2013 23: 53 New
          0
          Quote: bogdan
          I would like to add, why do we need enemies when we had such "friends" (Khrushchev, Gorbachev and other Kravchuk with Kuchma)

          In the same company, EBN, degenerate Gaidar and the like ...
        2. _Forgiven_
          _Forgiven_ 14 June 2013 00: 20 New
          +6
          But the last two, I would have generally hung for the eggs on the fence. Kravchuk climbed with his own independence, would have sat bastard and sniffed into two holes. August 24 at normal Ukrainians is not a holiday but mourning. A holiday for Yatsenyuk and Tyagnibok probably with Tymoshenko.
  • Capt.stryker
    Capt.stryker 14 June 2013 01: 40 New
    -4
    Quote: leon-iv
    I will answer briefly
    If Grandma had MPH, she would be Grandfather

    If wolves ate cabbage, they would be goats! laughing

    Quote: seasoned
    if Hitler occupied England (I think I could manage in 1-2 years),

    If I hadn't managed it, I wouldn't have had enough strength! The Germans could not have crossed the English Channel! The air war known as the "Battle of Britain" was overthrown by the Germans, being outnumbered over the Britons. And by what means the Germans were going to cross the English Channel, with the total superiority of the British fleet over the Kriegsmarine, and there, when the US Navy would also catch up - the Anglo-Saxon brothers ... it would not be sweet at all! By the way, you have reproached the author of the article with being infatuated with alternative history, but you yourself have begun to develop this "history"! It doesn't turn out nicely somehow! am
    Next:
    Quote: seasoned
    and then in 1943-44 would attack the USSR
    Neither in the 43rd, nor in the 44th, nor even in the 42nd, and even more so if the Germans had not attacked the USSR not later than June 25, then it would be Stalin who would have attacked Germany later in the middle of July 1941 ! And as if a historical curve would have gone then - it’s scary to imagine! Then, I AM SURE (!!!), there would not have been Pearl Harbor, but there would have been Vladivostok. And the first atomic bombs would have fallen not on Japan, because japas would have become allies of the United States, and even not on Germany they would have fallen, but on the most modest one on Moscow and Leningrad! And the Soviet Union would end its history not in December 1991, but later in 1943-44.
    1. alicante11
      alicante11 14 June 2013 08: 27 New
      +3
      Oh, pulled by resunoid. Pooh.
  • fokino1980
    fokino1980 14 June 2013 08: 25 New
    0
    I will also answer briefly:
    "from gayevrope" am
  • T-100
    T-100 13 June 2013 15: 39 New
    -12
    And if it had not been for the first world war and for revolutions in Russia, then all other countries would not have been equal to our military, economic and spiritual power. Russia could be the first in the history of the first SUPER-HOLD !!!
    1. Nevsky
      Nevsky 13 June 2013 15: 45 New
      12
      Quote: T-100
      And if it had not been for the first world war and for revolutions in Russia, then all other countries would not have been equal to our military, economic and spiritual power. Russia could be the first in the history of the first SUPER-HOLD !!!


      It’s debatable ... But who would carry out industrialization and how? Stolypin did not solve the agrarian question, they say they did not. request
      1. DeerIvanovich
        DeerIvanovich 13 June 2013 16: 54 New
        -2
        Stolypin and Witte should be put on a stake for their reforms! The same destroyers of the economy as Chernomyrdin with his comrades
        1. Atlon
          Atlon 13 June 2013 17: 33 New
          +2
          Quote: DeerIvanovich
          Stolypin and Witte should be put on a stake for their reforms!

          What do you know SPECIFICALLY about those reforms? Or "I have not read, but I ardently condemn"? For such high-profile statements, one must have reason. Do you have them, sir?
          1. DeerIvanovich
            DeerIvanovich 13 June 2013 18: 31 New
            +1
            Naturally, there is. Thanks to Witte, for example, the banking system was introduced in the Russian Empire, and it was built for Western countries.
            And what did Stolypin ??? Instead of realizing agrarian reform, he sent a bunch of settlers at his own risk and peril to the uninhabited lands ...
            I would like to hear from you what good these figures brought to our state?
            1. nerd.su
              nerd.su 13 June 2013 23: 40 New
              0
              Quote: DeerIvanovich
              Instead of realizing agrarian reform, he sent a bunch of settlers at his own risk and peril to the uninhabited lands ...

              And what had to be done? I would now send a bunch of unemployed parasites to uninhabited lands. And even the land is empty and parasites do not know what to do.
              1. nerd.su
                nerd.su 14 June 2013 08: 54 New
                -1
                well, no parasites know what they’ll do, they stupidly put cons, brains aren’t enough for something more meaningful laughing
          2. DEfindER
            DEfindER 14 June 2013 09: 30 New
            +2
            Quote: DeerIvanovich
            Stolypin and Witte should be put on a stake for their reforms!

            Quote: Atlon
            What do you know SPECIFICALLY about those reforms?

            I will answer you colleagues. The main mistake of Stolypin was that he made a bet on the prosperous peasantry, and the kulaks, investing money in their development, which led to even greater enrichment of the rich and greater impoverishment of the poor, because no one was going to share with ordinary peasants, and the money was mainly spent not on the development of the economy, for example, technical re-equipment, but on hiring an even greater number of people for pennies, because why the technology if you can hire a breakthrough of hungry peasants for food .. This all aggravated the discontent in the countryside, which allowed the revolution to find broad support for the peasantry.
            1. Atlon
              Atlon 15 June 2013 09: 28 New
              -1
              Quote: DEfindER
              I will answer you colleagues.

              What nonsense ... where did you get this? I advise you to study the history of the Stolypin reforms. I can only say that the revolution did not happen "thanks" to Stolypin's reforms, but they killed him precisely because a couple of years of such reforms, and no revolution could have been by definition!
      2. T-100
        T-100 14 June 2013 14: 19 New
        -1
        I wrote if there was no revolution, and this implies that there should not have been such an organization as "Narodnaya Volya". DON'T worry industrialization went on as usual. What suggests that the country has a first-class industry - this is its navy, then how complex and powerful it has. Agree to us at school that the Russian Empire was agrarian, industrially backward, but how then battleships were built (whose guns were 405,7 mm caliber), rifles (7,62 caliber), cartridges for them, field guns, airplanes. the machines had what they could cut the caliber 7,62, the hundredths of a millimeter were cut out. And judging by our surface construction, our industry, apart from frigates and boats, cannot yet build more, since we do not build such complex (from a technical point of view) cruisers, aircraft carriers, destroyers. Well, at least we will compensate for this with the nuclear submarines. In Soviet times, let's not deny, industrialization was carried out harshly, quickly, not without many sacrifices. During the time of Nicholas 2, she went through a stormy and evolutionary path))))
        1. Ratibor12
          Ratibor12 14 June 2013 15: 20 New
          +1
          Quote: T-100
          Don’t worry, industrialization took its course.

          Quote: T-100
          In the time of Nicholas 2, she walked violently and evolutionarily


          The revolution was the last chance to save the Slavs in the 20th century.
          In 1931, JV Stalin declared: “... We are 50-100 years behind advanced countries. We must make good this distance in ten years. Either we do it, or they crush us ”
          If not for the colossal Soviet industrialization, the country would not have survived the clash with the fascist European Union.
        2. rus9875
          rus9875 14 June 2013 15: 36 New
          +2
          Do not forget the unfortunate fact that the squadron in which there were several of those wonderful battleships in 1904 in the Tsushima Strait, the cross-eyed backward Asians sent to the bottom of the sea without losing a single ship
    2. Max otto
      Max otto 13 June 2013 15: 53 New
      11
      Oh, here it is quite controversial, not for nothing, I do not remember one of the classics said: "In Russia there is a tsar-bell that does not ring, a tsar-cannon that does not shoot and a tsar-tsar who does not rule." The February revolution was inevitable, so it turns out.
      1. Ratibor12
        Ratibor12 13 June 2013 21: 48 New
        +1
        Quote: Max Otto
        "In Russia there is a tsar-bell that does not ring, a tsar-cannon that does not fire, and a tsar-tsar who does not rule."


        Contemporaries:
        "Tsar Cannon, Tsar Bell, Tsar Rag"

        "God, take the tsar! He is not well for us!
        On the forehead, he is contu-u-uh Japo-o-ontsy! "
      2. T-100
        T-100 14 June 2013 14: 22 New
        0
        In Russia there is a tsar-bell that does not ring, a tsar-cannon that does not fire and a tsar-king who does not rule

        Tsar Bomb did everything for everyone. 50 Megatons, the explosion on New Earth, the sound wave of 3da circled the Earth.
    3. Rattenfanger
      Rattenfanger 13 June 2013 16: 09 New
      +6

      if it weren’t for the first world war and for revolutions in Russia, then all other countries would not be equal to our military, economic and spiritual power

      Yes, yes, yes, you are absolutely right! There would be no collectivization. The peasants would be fed. True, there would have been no industrialization either ... And they would have gone with pitchforks and "moosinks" in the end to meet the yubermen in panzers ... Or naglichan, it doesn't matter. But well-fed and with a roll of bosom.
      1. Starina_hank
        Starina_hank 13 June 2013 17: 02 New
        -8
        According to the recollections of my grandfather, on the maternal side, before the war they lived very well (Rybinsk, Yaroslavl region). He worked as a foreman at a factory, there was a KIM machine. After the war, first there was an M72, then a Vyatka scooter. "Growth" of well-being is evident.
        Well, there would be no collectivization! No matter how many people survived! At that time there was enough bread in Russia. Well, Russia would not have been second in industrial development, but in the third or fourth before the Second World War, they would have won anyway. states, no one believes that the Russian army was worse armed and dressed than the German. So for the second war would be prepared on an equal footing
        1. Rattenfanger
          Rattenfanger 13 June 2013 17: 15 New
          +6
          Quote: Starina_Hank
          Well, there would be no collectivization! How many people would survive!

          How many were prescribed in the Ost plan, so much would have survived.
          1. Starina_hank
            Starina_hank 13 June 2013 19: 17 New
            -1
            Russian Prussians always beat
            1. alicante11
              alicante11 14 June 2013 08: 29 New
              0
              Even in WWI? This is when the tsarist generals washed their feet in a spree in which year 191?
              1. Corsair
                Corsair 15 June 2013 10: 41 New
                0
                Quote: alicante11
                Even in WWI? This is when the tsarist generals washed their feet in a spree in which year 191?

                Fatal events in the political sphere (revolutionary fermentation) deprived the Russian Empire of statehood and, as a result, victory in the WWI ...
        2. Avenger711
          Avenger711 14 June 2013 01: 56 New
          +1
          Do you think that Stalin had nothing to do but arrange a collectivization that could end in riot? Unfortunately, the situation was such that there was no other option. Or a collective farm, or starve one at a time.
        3. DEfindER
          DEfindER 14 June 2013 09: 41 New
          +1
          Quote: Starina_Hank
          Well, there would be no collectivization! How many people would survive!

          When do people learn facts to reinforce everything?
          From that period:
          in the most fierce period of dispossession, in 1930-1931, the peasants expropriated the property of 381 kulaks, who, together with their families (and this is 026 people) were sent to the East (i.e. to Siberia). Of these, by January 1, 803, 392 people reached the places of settlement; the remaining 1 people fled along the way.
          In general, only a part of the 63 thousand kulaks sentenced to execution were shot "for counter-revolutionary activity." The number of deaths during deportation, mostly from hunger and epidemics, was about 100 thousand people. For 1932-40. about 200 thousand kulaks died in the camps from natural causes.
          1. alicante11
            alicante11 14 June 2013 12: 09 New
            +1
            Moreover, not even all Siberia was exiled. Someone to Kazakhstan, and someone generally to neighboring regions. On the website "For Stalin" there is a sign who was sent and where.
    4. Black
      Black 13 June 2013 16: 11 New
      +7
      Quote: T-100
      And if not for the first world war and for the revolution in Russia

      We would not be an atomic or cosmic power !!!! - that’s for sure!
    5. Tartary
      Tartary 13 June 2013 16: 51 New
      10
      Quote: T-100
      And if it had not been for the first world war and for revolutions in Russia, then all other countries would not have been equal to our military, economic and spiritual power. Russia could be the first in the history of the first SUPER-HOLD !!!


      And I believe that Russia was the only superpower - the Empire, until the Middle Ages, when the "Age of Enlightenment" happened in the gamerops ...
      Then the vassals quietly rewrote History, while the "Bear" dozed in hibernation, confident in his invulnerability, and new generations have "forgotten" who their ancestors were 100 years ago ...

      Russia in the person of the USSR, simply returned, tried to regain its space and the right to prevail with morality over the boring peoples of the former vassals, which is repeated today ...
      I use the word is repeated because in 1991, the descendants of the vassals, tried even more, to even more deeply sink the main ship of world civilization - Russia ...

      Partially succeeded ... The slaves drank the slaves of Satan completely.

      Glory to you, Lord! That did not allow the worst ...

      God bless Russia and its glorious peoples !!

      We are Russians, and fraternal peoples are obliged to preserve the many-thousand-year-old Russia - Russia!

      Amen!
    6. Capt.stryker
      Capt.stryker 14 June 2013 01: 55 New
      -2
      Quote: T-100
      And if not for the first world war and for the revolution in Russia,

      And if it had not yet been Alexander III, or Petya I, and if you pick it even deeper - not Vanya the Terrible, how then would the world history curve be bent? Maybe Russia - namely Russia, and not Russia, would become the mother of world democracy, and not Britain? AND!? Love friends! How do you like this alternative option?
  • HAM
    HAM 13 June 2013 15: 49 New
    +3
    NOT EVERYTHING IS INDIVIDUAL BUT BEAUTIFUL!
  • raf
    raf 13 June 2013 15: 50 New
    -2
    How would we live if there were no war?
    History does not know the subjunctive moods!
  • fisherman
    fisherman 13 June 2013 15: 51 New
    +8
    The article is good and almost true ... But everything should not be blamed on Khrushchev ... During the years of perestroika, our country was destroyed more than during the Second World War ...
    1. rus9875
      rus9875 14 June 2013 15: 43 New
      +2
      Yes, but after World War II, the country was restored in 8 years and the first satellite was launched in 12 years. And now, 22 years after the collapse of the union, we are still talking only about modernization, innovation, etc.
  • Aleks tv
    Aleks tv 13 June 2013 15: 53 New
    12
    And I liked the article.
    I just liked it and that's it.

    Sometimes it's good to "look around the corner".
    Those. to think about what the future would be if there were no war. The plans of that leadership, their aspirations and goals become more clear.
    Inspire respect.
    And the present becomes more clear. There is something to compare.

    Knowing the history and predicting an alternative history cool the minds of contemporaries well and make you think about the future.
    The war brought not only trouble to the people, it tore TO the construction of life, shocked by which was the west ...
  • Igor
    Igor 13 June 2013 15: 56 New
    +4
    Quote: raf
    How would we live if there were no war?
    History does not know the subjunctive moods!


    Wow .. But here it’s not the story !!
    The point is in Ideas, if the idea of ​​development and progress was prevented in the 40s, then maybe it should be implemented now?
    artels, for example, instead of aligarchs, in my opinion a very good idea.
  • Valery-SPB
    Valery-SPB 13 June 2013 16: 00 New
    +1
    Already in 1932, unemployment not only disappeared, but also had to attract an additional two million workers. By 1940, the number of workers and employees increased to 31,2 million, the urban population of the country tripled!

    While reading, I remembered something. Yeah! The industrial revolution in England. They began to breed sheep, stopped growing grain, began to import from Australia. Where are the peasants? In the working class! And if it does not go? Strongly unhappy to hang, the rest either to the factory under guard, or to Australia, forcibly-voluntarily!
    How abruptly increased the size of the working class and urban population!
    The laws of physics and economics are unchanged. If somewhere decreased, then somewhere increased.
    1. Avenger711
      Avenger711 14 June 2013 01: 59 New
      0
      And now, the same thing is naturally repeated in the USSR at the end of the 20s, only with the expulsion and extinction of not 1-2, well, let it be 5% of the peasantry, but half, or 75%.
  • Rattenfanger
    Rattenfanger 13 June 2013 16: 01 New
    26
    Stalin, obscurantist, kind of, in the plan of the first five-year plan laid the increase in members of the cooperative 2,5 times. I think the liberals will be able to explain this quite simply, so that there is someone to put in the Gulag. Those. small business in a totalitarian USSR was raised not in words, as in democratic Russia, but in practice. Examples? Yes please:
    - in the first 2 years enterprises were exempted from taxes and state control over pricing. I captured the market first, there is time to skim the cream (the only restriction is that prices should not be 15% higher than state prices for similar goods).
    to state officials since the beginning of the 41st year it was forbidden to interfere in the affairs of the artels under any pretext.
    -prices for raw materials, equipment, industrial space, transport
    The costs for private owners were fixed (goodbye, rollback, as they say).
    -paperwork has been minimized.
    -total in the private sector operated about 115 thousand enterprises. The first radios, tube radios, televisions (1939) were produced in St. Petersburg by private traders. Even faculty during the war years was produced, by and large, by the forces of artels.
    In total, the share of gross product in the USSR economy with regards to private traders was 7%.

    Most of the commerce in the "prison of peoples" did not know any kickbacks, no corruption, no bureaucratic lawlessness ... Savages, by God!
    1. Aleks tv
      Aleks tv 13 June 2013 16: 46 New
      +5
      Quote: Rattenfanger
      Savages, by golly!

      laughing

      Thanks for the info about the artels, very interesting.
      good
      1. Rattenfanger
        Rattenfanger 13 June 2013 18: 46 New
        +1
        Quote: Aleks tv
        Thanks for the info about the artels

        You're welcome. hi
    2. MG42
      MG42 13 June 2013 19: 42 New
      +5
      in the topic of artels >> did cap I found repairs in the apartment on the parquet flooring scissors of those times, there the stigma <metartel union sannitsky> cut the class, not that now the scissors are complete bullshit ...
  • Black
    Black 13 June 2013 16: 09 New
    -3
    The pace of socialist construction, cinema, Ukraine, Khrushchev is a bastard, a wealthy cripple .... well, where "my dear, if there was no war !!"?
    no matter what is in the title. Anyway.
    Read the article to my grandparents ... I think not everyone would agree. It is good for us, beyond the horizon of events ... and it is seen better, and we remember less.
    You should not draw that life well in such rainbow colors.
    Collective farms, as a rule, are extreme poverty and hunger. Survived! didn’t live. (Grandmother said that since the 20s plenty of bread was eaten only under Khrushchev.) And what about state loans? - people for years (in aggregate) worked for the state.
    Gulag + beggarly s.p. for those who are free + universal employment + forest and gold ensured the highest growth of the country's economy. (I'm not talking about the almost complete absence of corruption, a smart investment of money, and so on) One must also remember this.
    Now answering the question in the title ...
    - probably there would be no qualitative breakthrough in mechanical engineering
    - certainly there would be no social camp
    - there would be 9 MAY
    Victory Day we would celebrate another day.
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 13 June 2013 16: 23 New
      10
      Quote: Chen
      Now answering the question in the title ...


      You have an interesting comment, lively. He put a plus, well, for the heap - white bread for me, a child and a city dweller, my mother received Khrushchev coupons, and my grandmother began to receive a pension for her husband missing in September 1941 when his division left the Pinsk marshes.
    2. Avenger711
      Avenger711 14 June 2013 02: 01 New
      +2
      Such poverty is that the Red Army bought tanks with planes.
  • Navy7981
    Navy7981 13 June 2013 16: 24 New
    +9
    I liked the article. If you stick to the facts, and discard the author's excessive enthusiasm, then I agree with him. One example, if we are so backward and weak, then how, during the Great War, evacuating factories, from scratch (places), we were able to establish the production of military equipment, ammunition and equipment? Yes, at some points we lagged behind in manufacturability and quality of production! Yes, few people cared about aesthetics or ergonomics! But in general, our technique was not inferior! Because it is impossible to defeat the strongest army at that time without becoming stronger. And if we were a land of alcoholics and convicts, how could we do this? In the 10-15 pre-war years we have become a very advanced country precisely at the engineering and educational level. In general, you need to read, watch, evaluate and draw conclusions yourself. Thank God now the info "sea".
    1. Avenger711
      Avenger711 14 June 2013 02: 02 New
      0
      And there were no empty places, foundations and communications were let down in advance. The evacuation plan was very meticulously drawn up and correctly implemented.
  • Renat
    Renat 13 June 2013 16: 33 New
    +2
    Truly history develops in a spiral. It can’t happen that the country doesn’t get up and throw off all sorts of parasites - dissidents. But so far we have no real leader. Till...
  • tverskoi77
    tverskoi77 13 June 2013 16: 49 New
    +5
    To plan for the future, you always need to know the history of the past, the history of mistakes and achievements. Alternative scenarios are also useful.
    Here the author certainly does not hide his love for Khrushchev, but in principle this is not the point. From the Stalinist system, five-year planning with specific indicators can be emphasized, now no one wants to take on such responsibility. Assimilate money without any reported results. And a very fundamental approach to everything with a foundation for the future.
  • leon-iv
    leon-iv 13 June 2013 17: 00 New
    -2
    Wow, they cheerfully naminus. And as always, the cat wept.
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 13 June 2013 17: 10 New
      +1
      Quote: leon-iv
      Wow, they cheerfully naminusovat.

      And for example, I’m not surprised, in that situation, that here we have people who believe in an alliance with the ogre-Fuhrer




      1. experienced
        experienced 13 June 2013 17: 14 New
        +3
        Quote: Vadivak
        But I’m not surprised, for example, in the situation that we have people who believe in an alliance with the ogre-Fuhrer,

        Today, maybe some outbreaks on the Sun are abnormal? request In one of the topics, Goebels quotes cited me as an example, though without specifying the author. The world (forum users) turned upside down belay
        1. DeerIvanovich
          DeerIvanovich 13 June 2013 18: 51 New
          0
          If you take a little trouble reading, then the posts above will be a post by Vadivak, quoting "Haile" himself, so there is nothing to be surprised at.
          1. experienced
            experienced 13 June 2013 18: 56 New
            +3
            Quote: DeerIvanovich
            If you take a little trouble reading, then the posts above will be a post by Vadivak, quoting "Haile" himself, so there is nothing to be surprised at.

            Vadim gives a quote from which it is clear what fate was prepared for the Slavs, and Goebels was quoted to me about criticism and its role hi
          2. Vadivak
            Vadivak 13 June 2013 20: 33 New
            +1
            Quote: DeerIvanovich
            If you take a little trouble reading, then the posts above will be a post by Vadivak, quoting "Haile" himself, so there is nothing to be surprised at.


            Exactly, there is. As he speaks about us Slavs, read, it may come in handy
            1. DeerIvanovich
              DeerIvanovich 13 June 2013 20: 51 New
              -1
              are you pushing me to destroy the Slavs what le? belay
              in essence: just as I wrote my experienced post, so I stabbed it with a post about you ... next time let it express my thoughts more accurately.
      2. atalef
        atalef 13 June 2013 17: 21 New
        -3
        Quote: Vadivak
        And for example, I’m not surprised, in that situation, that here we have people who believe in an alliance with the ogre-Fuhrer

        Quote: Vadivak
        In one of the topics, Goebels quotes cited me as an example, though without specifying the author. The world (forum users) turned upside down

        Hi Vadim, people (such as Athlone) would be written as friends and put up by their authorities to justify their anti-Semitism.
        1. Vadivak
          Vadivak 13 June 2013 20: 30 New
          +1
          Quote: atalef
          Hi Vadim, people (like Athlone) to justify their anti-Semitism to


          Sasha bow to you, I noticed how he translated everything into the Jews. Sorry do not read our correspondence doctor .....
      3. Corsair5912
        Corsair5912 13 June 2013 18: 55 New
        +3
        Quote: Vadivak

        And for example, I’m not surprised, in that situation, that here we have people who believe in an alliance with the ogre-Fuhrer

        Until the 22 of June 1941, the Fuhrer was not a cannibal.
        You do not consider Bush and Obama the cannibals, and the Führer, in comparison with these killers, until 22 on June 1941, was just a puppy, a small mushberry.
        1. Vadivak
          Vadivak 13 June 2013 21: 30 New
          +1
          Quote: Corsair5912
          Until the 22 of June 1941, the Fuhrer was not a cannibal.

          There was Stalin who knew this, otherwise he would not have accepted the Jews who fled from Nazism from Europe.
  • lexe
    lexe 13 June 2013 17: 05 New
    -9
    Stalin was an excellent administrator. But often he went too far. He was in a hurry to catch up with the West. The end justified the means, according to Stalin.
    That's just the world is not a spherical vacuum. Economic new models invented in the West gave a striking effect in a short time. The principle was a simple pyramid and a boom in consumption. Why was it possible to mass produce a car? But Ford just decided to sell products to workers on the cheap! -Socialism Supporters of hard capitalism simply hated him. But he defended his ideas and made them dominant in the USA. Yes ... and then went on to mass production of Shermans with workers who had a car in the garage!)
    In the United States, during the period of unemployment, there were also such vacancies, for example, driving birds away in parks.) - It’s stupidly not a benefit, but worthless work with s / n so that people don’t go down and drink too much. They knew that people would still be needed for mass production.
    As a result, we have: Stalin was opposed by a new class of Western management masterly, able to induce people to work efficiently. To this we must add Hollywood, the media, architecture, etc. who clearly understood what the worker needed after work.
    Against such weapons of mass consumption-production, it was possible to withstand only the same ways. Yes, in terms of the military-industrial complex, they could catch up with someone. After all, this is also a way of life-machine \ house-person should feel that he is keeping up with progress instead of lagging behind him. But our defense industry initially gave out a lot of marriage. and they knew it well at the front.
    But Ford is not a genius. There was still state socialism planned in tsarist Russia. Managers under the tsar offered grandiose plans. The credit grew sharply, the system of worker equity participation through equity was real. All of them ended up ... I recalled Chubais and today's valuable market papers ...
    We had no chance in the USSR against such economic weapons. The ideal incentive for labor will always lose to the economic one. Well, if there is no threat to life, then a woman and a child will stand up for the machines. The question is, what do we need is always a threat to just work? weapons for what we hold? To develop as well.
    1. Avenger711
      Avenger711 14 June 2013 02: 04 New
      +1
      Stalin also used the acceleration of the economy with denbgs. More precisely, it was he who carried out industrialization with the formation of the domestic market, but without the state. regulation sooner or later a crisis comes.
    2. alicante11
      alicante11 14 June 2013 08: 39 New
      +1
      If you read the article, you will just see that Stalin acted just on the consumer. Shortened working hours. And what do you want to relax, do you want, in the artel or on the infield at that time you dig in, and the salary goes. Reduced retail prices. Again, for more consumption. Well, then, the Leader did not have time, and Beria was not allowed to continue.
  • Ivan Tucha
    Ivan Tucha 13 June 2013 17: 07 New
    +2
    The article is interesting.
  • Manager
    Manager 13 June 2013 17: 12 New
    +4
    It would be nice if we lived. That's all I want to say.
  • Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 13 June 2013 17: 24 New
    +4
    It is enough that the snickering partocrats led by the degenerate Khrushchev would not kill the Leader, because, as you know, Stalin was going to remove the nomenclature from power, and the nomenklatura, both then and now, does not want to lose its warm armchairs and pliant secretaries. stranu.U Yu. Mukhin has for these people even their own definition - "animals", ie. creatures only outwardly similar to man, but incapable of creation only to eat, reproduce and destroy. Stalin was not an angel, and an angel could not rule the country, there was already one "holy great martyr" and "master of the Russian land" who destroyed the country, family and dynasty. He gave icons to everyone and prayed to God, and the country behind him plunged into chaos. The great creators of the Russian state, such as Ivan the Terrible, Peter the Great, Alexander III or Stalin, who put their lives in the service of Russia are always called "bloody tyrants" who personally ruined hundreds of trillions innocent souls.
  • Ivan Tarasov
    Ivan Tarasov 13 June 2013 17: 25 New
    +4
    Khrushchev turned out to be worse than thermonuclear war - it's hard to disagree ...
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 13 June 2013 17: 29 New
    +3
    "- It is impossible to defeat Russians, we have been convinced of this for hundreds of years. But you can instill false values, and then they will defeat themselves!" The most interesting thing is that after we "conquer" ourselves we become even stronger ... Mysterious Russian soul !!! That is how we live....
  • atalef
    atalef 13 June 2013 17: 32 New
    -12
    Of course, many would not like my opinion, but without war and the image of the enemy of the USSR, he could not exist. after some time, people would ask questions why it is so bad, if everything is good around.
    Yves 30 and 40 people lived very hard (peasants were generally at the level of serfs, without passports), and then, the role of the USSR in the arms race was not small.
    Read - Lenin, Stalin - they just raved about the world revolution, remember the songs of 40's. The whole country worked only for the army. Long before Hitler came to power.
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 13 June 2013 18: 22 New
      +9
      Quote: atalef
      Stalin - they just raved about the world revolution

      That's it! Read the works of I.V. Stalin and give an example where he raves about the world revolution!
      Minus to you, dear!
    2. Rattenfanger
      Rattenfanger 13 June 2013 18: 49 New
      +7
      Quote: atalef
      Read-Lenin, Stalin-they just raved about the world revolution

      Stalin raved about the world revolution? Link to the source, please! fool
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 13 June 2013 19: 05 New
        -12
        Maybe raved, you know how. Secretly. Since Trotsky was his opponent in the struggle for the Leninist inheritance, and it was he who was her ardent and open supporter.

        Stalin was a very mediocre theoretician. He has been a practitioner since participating in the underground.
        1. tixon444
          tixon444 13 June 2013 22: 00 New
          +4
          Quote: Spade
          Maybe raved, you know how. Secretly. Since Trotsky was his opponent in the struggle for the Leninist inheritance, and it was he who was her ardent and open supporter.

          Stalin was a very mediocre theoretician. He has been a practitioner since participating in the underground.


          Not true. Read the works of Stalin, his speech at the congresses of the CPSU (b). It was Stalin who initiated the construction of socialism in a single state when he chose the thesis of “socialism in one country” as his political and ideological platform. This happened at the end of 1924, when he first spoke on the question of building socialism in one, separately taken Soviet Russia. And even more so, let's not forget about industrialization. He was not a talker. It's true.

          http://ivstalin.ru/put-k-vlasti/sotsializm-v-odnoy-otdelno-vzyatoy-strane.html
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 13 June 2013 22: 13 New
            -4
            Are you trying to compare Stalin with Lenin, or at least Trotsky?
            1. tixon444
              tixon444 13 June 2013 22: 25 New
              +4
              Quote: Spade
              Are you trying to compare Stalin with Lenin, or at least Trotsky?


              No, I do not compare, where did you get it? With Trotsky all the more, it will be an insult to the memory of the Father of Nations.
    3. tixon444
      tixon444 13 June 2013 21: 26 New
      -4
      Quote: atalef
      Read-Lenin, Stalin-they just raved about the world revolution, remember the songs of the 40s


      Are you talking about this song?



      It was not Stalin who raved about the world revolution, but Trotsky.
      1. tixon444
        tixon444 14 June 2013 00: 34 New
        +4
        The Corsican Choir I Chjami Aghjalesi sings a song written during the Civil War by composer Samuil Pokrass and poet Pavel Gorinstein (pseudonym Grigoriev). The song was written in 1920 and was called "The White Army, Black Baron", later renamed "The Red Army is Strongest of All."
        In October 1768, the regular army of independent and democratic Corsica at the Battle of Borg defeated one of the best armies in the world of that era - the army of the king of France. The song sings about it. Corsican words were written by F. Manaut.
        This is for those who sculpt minus right and left.
        1. MG42
          MG42 14 June 2013 02: 17 New
          +2
          Quote: tixon444
          Corsican choir I Chjami Aghjalesi sings a song ....
          This is for those who sculpt minus right and left.

          I didn’t set a minus, but it’s not the first time I have seen these singing frogs here .. here’s an excellent performance of this song bully
    4. Avenger711
      Avenger711 14 June 2013 02: 05 New
      0
      You 1- zpo history. Run to learn materiel.
  • HAIFISCH
    HAIFISCH 13 June 2013 17: 38 New
    +4
    But Stalin’s approach is indicative, and now Putin is telling the ministers when they provided him with a new plan for the execution of the May decrees, they say you guys weren’t fucking cool, you don’t work, you have zero personal responsibility, only your eyes are down. When the body is sick, a medicine is needed, but now there is no medicine and is not expected, because the legislative regulation in our country is dead, designed for weaning grandmothers from the population. and not an order of magnitude, privatization is an example, a one-room apartment, in words everything is free exactly as by law, but put 30 pieces on a barrel, information xy ... vochki, etc.
  • homosum20
    homosum20 13 June 2013 17: 39 New
    +3
    Who does not work for his army - works for someone else's. Atalef, this is not my idea.
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 13 June 2013 17: 47 New
    +1
    I would not want Russia to turn into gay Europe .. We have punished many for our history .. and live like "my house is on the edge, I don't know anything and it's not bad to feed us here too .." This is not for us .. We Russians need space and in the soul and in technology so that we were the first ... And without this, living is boring and disgusting ..
  • ddmm09
    ddmm09 13 June 2013 17: 50 New
    0
    Quote: Lexi
    Stalin was an excellent administrator. But he often went too far. He was in a hurry to catch up with the West. The end justified the means, according to Stalin. Only the world is not a spherical vacuum. The economic new models invented in the West gave a striking effect in a short time. The principle was a simple pyramid and a boom Why did the mass production of cars become possible? But Ford simply decided to sell products to workers on the cheap! -Socialism is a face. He just hated the supporters of hard capitalism. But he defended his ideas and made them dominant in the USA. Yes ... and then switched to the mass production of Shermans with workers who had a car in the garage!) In the United States, during the period of unemployment, there were such vacancies, for example, driving birds away in parks.) - It’s stupidly not an allowance but worthless work with s / n so that people don’t go down and drink too much . We knew that people would still be needed for mass production. As a result, we have: Stalin was opposed by a new class of Western management masterly, able to induce people to effective work. u need to add Hollywood, media, architecture, etc. who clearly knew what the worker needed after work. Against such weapons of mass consumption-production, they could only withstand the same methods. Yes, they could catch up with the military-industrial complex, but with whom, the specialist is also a way of life-machine \ house-man I should feel that he is keeping up with progress and not lag behind him. But after all, our military-industrial complex gave out a lot of marriages. And they knew it well at the front. But Ford is not a genius. There was state socialism planned in tsarist Russia. Managers under the tsar offered grandiose plans. The consumer loan sharply grew, the system of the worker’s equity participation through equity was quite real. All of them eventually disappeared ... I remembered Chubais and today's securities market ... We had no chance in the USSR against such economic weapons. Ideal incentive for labor, it will always lose to the economic one. Well, unless there is a threat to life, then a woman with a child will stand up for the machines. The question is, what do we always need a threat to just work? NW weapons for what we rzhim? To develop as well.


    Something you fooled in your theory ...
    1. lexe
      lexe 13 June 2013 18: 18 New
      +1
      Well, clarify what you see turbidity.
      Stalin squeezed the maximum out of the communist idea, and this is his talent. And they went to war with us in 1941. using Hitler’s puppet not because of fear of further development of communism in our country, but because Stalin was a flexible politician. He could calculate everything and easily change his political course, but already with a mass of factories built for the Bright Future! laughing
      He gravitated to the empire is a fact. He did not want a world revolution, although he enjoyed the influence of leftist ideas in the world.
      And Stalin died strangely. Grandiose ideas ripened in his head. But he really appreciated and respected the achievements of the West. And in architecture and in aircraft construction and the auto / industry. Why did we lack the mobility that automobiles allowed in WWII? Hitler all European buses even to drove us and created chaos by divisions on wheels.
      1. tixon444
        tixon444 13 June 2013 21: 45 New
        +1
        Quote: Lexi
        And Stalin died strangely


        Nothing strange. He neglected the personnel rotation rule, which he had successfully used before the war. In the end, he became either too gullible, or too lazy, after all, the 74th year had gone. And he would change his worthless environment, so much that the country would achieve.
  • Corsair5912
    Corsair5912 13 June 2013 18: 47 New
    +6
    By all means, Stalin tried to prevent a war with Hitler, but he was opposed by the most sophisticated villains in political games in Western Europe.
    Of course, if there had not been a war in the USSR, 26 million people, including 11.5 million men of active working age, would not have died.
    "During the war years on Soviet territory, 1710 cities and towns of urban type and more than 70 thousand villages and villages, 32 thousand industrial enterprises were destroyed, 98 thousand collective farms, 1876 state farms were destroyed. The State Commission established that material damage was about 30 percent of the national wealth of the Soviet Union, and in the areas under occupation - about two thirds.In general, the material losses of the Soviet Union are estimated at about 2 trillion 600 billion rubles (Soviet rubles, at the rate of 1 US dollar - 66 kopecks).
    All Holocausts are just a trifle compared to these losses.
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 13 June 2013 18: 48 New
    -10
    Stalin was a Caucasian ... he did not have a flight of soul ... he was driven by fear ... and in 41 he realized this when, after two weeks of depression, he addressed "Brothers and Sisters ..." and in the 45th toast "Thank you to the Russian people." .The catastrophe in 41 is on his conscience .. There is simply such a thing as "Thunder will not strike, a man does not cross himself .." Poles from Moscow expelled a simple Russian man and Napoleon and Hitler .. Partisans in the forests in the fields Russian women working in factories and the fields .. The same Putin caught the wave (or rather realized that the limit has come and something needs to be done ..) .. Russia .. Russians are tired of being humiliated and robbed .... Here's something I wrote shortly hurt .. just ..
    1. Rattenfanger
      Rattenfanger 13 June 2013 19: 26 New
      +4
      Quote: MIKHAN
      Stalin was a Caucasian

      "To me, as a Russian, these savage dances are alien!"(JV Stalin on the performance of the Georgian folk ensemble)
      Stalin even wrote "Russian" in the questionnaire, although there was Georgian, Ossetian and Abkhazian blood in him.
      It seems to me that he was Russian to a greater extent than many genetic Russians.


      The catastrophe in 41 is on his conscience .. There is simply such a thing as "Thunder will not break out, a man will not cross himself .."

      Motivate.
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 13 June 2013 22: 10 New
        +1
        Quote: Rattenfanger
        Motivate.

        How can you motivate FAITH? He believes and does not need proof.
  • kruplen
    kruplen 13 June 2013 18: 57 New
    +1
    The article is unambiguously +, the point is how to manage it.
  • Vladimir-35136
    Vladimir-35136 13 June 2013 19: 07 New
    -3
    You should not blame everything on Khrushchev, most likely the costs of that time were caused by the consequences of the war and the need to further mobilize the economy for arms production. The preemptive strike of the Nazis was firmly imprinted in the minds of our leaders and explains the current policies and economic policies in the USSR and modern Russia. It is most interesting to compare the actions of the EU to destabilize and destroy the economy of the countries surrounding the European community and the actions of Hitler Germany to seize world domination. The methodology may be different, but the goal seems to be the same — the well-being of the minority (the West) due to the distress (armed capture or economic enslavement) of other countries under various pretexts.
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 13 June 2013 19: 13 New
    -9
    "However, the USSR had a chance to start all over again. To lag behind in its plans for 15 years, but, having restored the country after the war, continue to strive for what was planned. However, a man named Khrushchev turned out to be worse than any war."
    This phrase at the end of the article .. It says a lot and hints .... In the Khrushchevs, the majority of the population lives .. And in the Caribbean crisis we won diplomatically .. and we conquered space and began to live in Slavs-leaders .. We don’t need more Stalin .. (they are not Russian .. and there is a lot of blood from them ..) just analyze ..
  • Rattenfanger
    Rattenfanger 13 June 2013 19: 13 New
    +5
    The statement about the involvement of the Zionists in the rise of A. Hitler to the top of power caused a lot of responses. Not just Jews, but Zionists, because the same David Abramovich Dragunsky ("I don't * er, I'm an old Stalinist tanker!" (C)) was on all the subtleties of these propelling vehicles ... in parallel, let's say, which the guards colonel of the armored forces proved during the war, as well as to the vast majority of other Jews.
    However, it’s stupid to deny (and even the Americans, having looked down, admit) that Hitler brought international capital to power. English-French-American. Do you seriously believe that the Jews did not in any way control the world financial system in the first half of the century (and now)? Do you consider the Barons of the Rothschilds WASP? I am truly sorry for that person ... but this is not being treated. This is a diagnosis.
    Further. A sea of ​​indignation over the role of Britain in unleashing the war. They have nothing to do with it? Do you seriously think so? Hmm ... In order not to describe in detail (a separate article will be needed), once again go over the superficial facts of the chain "liquidation of the Rhine demilitarized zone-Anschluss-Czechoslovakia-Poland". At least for those that lie on the surface. And Answer yourselves to the question: why did the Anglo-Franconians not crush him like a mosquito in '36 or '38. Moreover, they threatened the Czechs with war in '38. They allowed them to break the pshek. WHY?
  • nikkon09
    nikkon09 13 June 2013 19: 14 New
    0
    Quote: seasoned
    Why write articles about an alternative story? The war with Hitler was inevitable and it is not known how the USSR would have fallen asleep if Hitler occupied England (I think it would have managed in 1-2 years), and then in 1943-44 it would have attacked the USSR, and then it would certainly be with Japan and 100% without land - Lisa would have gone. So we must live in the present, not forgetting about the past and thinking about the future, and not building alternative versions of the development of history hi

    so the USSR also did not sit idly by in 1-2 years of acupants and would have met differently
  • Skifo
    Skifo 13 June 2013 19: 20 New
    0
    Anglo-Zionists and before (even under Tsarist Russia) poisoned us. For example, they tried to take away the Caucasus (Russian-Turkish war).
    I liked the article
  • Igarr
    Igarr 13 June 2013 19: 27 New
    +1
    Guys ...
    read yourself ...
    Not sick?
    .
    I happen to write with a drunk ... who know me - they filter me right there ..
    and then what ??? - you all drunk, or what?
    Ah, business? .. zombies, in all its glory ...
    1. alicante11
      alicante11 14 June 2013 08: 57 New
      +1
      And without a flight of thought. Specifically. What article like or dislike and what like / dislike. Or just so that to write something like smart, is it generally sober or what?
  • pakfa-t-50
    pakfa-t-50 13 June 2013 19: 27 New
    0
    During the war, a lot of people were killed, such a thing should not be screaming !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Only God knows how we would live !!!!!!!!!!!
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 13 June 2013 19: 52 New
    -3
    Quote: Rattenfanger
    Quote: MIKHAN
    Stalin was a Caucasian

    "To me, as a Russian, these savage dances are alien!"(JV Stalin on the performance of the Georgian folk ensemble)
    Stalin even wrote "Russian" in the questionnaire, although there was Georgian, Ossetian and Abkhazian blood in him.
    It seems to me that he was Russian to a greater extent than many genetic Russians.


    The catastrophe in 41 is on his conscience .. There is simply such a thing as "Thunder will not break out, a man will not cross himself .."

    Motivate.

    First, surrounded by Stalin, there were a lot of Jews and then Georgians .. And a lot of blood .. I am not against Stalin as the country's leader, he did a lot for Russia .. but his soul was not Slavic ... Look at the Caucasus .. just ..
    1. Rattenfanger
      Rattenfanger 13 June 2013 20: 01 New
      +4
      Quote: MIKHAN
      Surrounding Stalin, there were many Jews and then Georgians at first ..

      1) How many - in percentage terms - were Georgians and Jews surrounded by I.V. Stalin? L.P. Beria and L.M. Kaganovich. A Georgian and a Jew (not Zh_i_d_ya_r_a, but a Jew, I emphasize) The most talented and devoted people of the country. Who else?
      (how much blood? in liters? smile )
      2) So why is it still the 41st on the conscience of I.V. Stalin? Did he command the troops?
      1. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 13 June 2013 21: 26 New
        +1
        The greatest number of Jews was in Stalin's government in the 1936 year-9 man. And then Stalin had enough Jews.
        Colonel General Vannikov Boris Lvovich - People's Commissar of Armaments from 1939 to 1941, then People's Commissar of Ammunition in 1942-1946 After the war, Minister B.L. Vannikov led the work on the creation of the atomic bomb, being the chairman of the Government Committee No. 1.
        Ginzburg Semen Zakharovich - People's Commissar of the USSR in 1939-1946 During the war years, he directed the construction of defense and industrial facilities, the commissioning of evacuated enterprises, and the restoration of the national economy in the liberated areas.
        Kaganovich Lazar Moiseevich - member of the State. Defense Committee, chairman of the Transport Committee under the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR, People's Commissar of Railways in 1938-1942gg. and 1943-1944gg.
        Major General Zaltsman Isaac Moiseevich - People's Commissar of the Tank Industry of the USSR in 1941 - 1943. The creator and head of Tankograd, created in Chelyabinsk on the basis of the Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant, the evacuated Kirov Machine-Building and Kharkov Tank Factories.
        Major General Viktor Zemierub Viktor Abramovich - Head of the Main Directorate of the People’s Commissariat for Ammunition. Lieutenant General Levin Mikhail Aronovich - Head of the Department of Motor Engineering and Fuel of the Aviation Industry. Major General Nosovsky Naum Emmanuilovich - Head of the Main Directorate of the People's Commissariat of Armaments. Major General Frankfurt Samuil Grigorievich - Head of the Main Directorate of the People's Commissariat for Ammunition. Semen Reznikov - deputy. People’s Commissar of Ferrous Metallurgy, and, at the same time, the director of the Nizhne-Tagil Metallurgical Plant, which during the war years supplied 30% of armor steel for tank plants of the country, etc.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Ratibor12
          Ratibor12 13 June 2013 22: 25 New
          +1
          Quote: Aron Zaavi
          Stalin had enough Jews

          Well ... For completeness, add ... well, for example, the Mehlis!

          "... Mehlis jumped off the seat.
          - Hello, Comrade Stalin! Let me report to you.
          Stalin paused a little, for a moment he looked down the Mehlis and said with excitement in his voice:
          - Damn you!
          And then he entered the office, slamming the door behind him ... "

          Harm only from him alone is comparable with the benefits of the above. And in denunciations to Jews there are no equal. Otherwise, there would be Russians, Ukrainians, Belarusians in these posts ...
          1. Aaron Zawi
            Aaron Zawi 13 June 2013 23: 09 New
            +1
            In June 1941, he was again appointed head of the Main Political Administration and Deputy Commissar of Defense. Mehlis was awarded the rank of army commissar of 1 rank, which corresponded to the rank of army general. In 1942, he was the representative of the Headquarters of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief on the Crimean Front, where he constantly clashed with General Kozlov. . At the same time, in his reports to Stalin, he tried to distance himself from the failures that the Crimean Front suffered and to lay all responsibility on the front command. Stalin on this occasion sent a telegram to the Mehlis, in which he severely criticized him for such behavior.
            In 1942-1946 he was a member of the military councils of a number of armies and fronts, from December 6, 1942 - Lieutenant General, from July 29, 1944 - Colonel General.
            In 1946-1950 - Minister of State Control of the USSR. On October 27, 1950, he was dismissed for health reasons.
            In the post-war period, he headed the State Staff Commission at the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR. The size of the states, which individual departments could receive, largely depended on the Mehlis. Repeatedly conducted campaigns to reduce staff.
            After his death in February 1953, he was cremated, the ashes were placed in an urn in the Kremlin wall on Red Square in Moscow.
            Here is the real attitude to Mehlis, Comrade Stalin, and the fact that you wrote this is a filkin letter.
            1. Ratibor12
              Ratibor12 14 June 2013 04: 30 New
              +2
              Quote: Aron Zaavi
              Here is the real attitude to Mehlis, Comrade Stalin, and the fact that you wrote this is a filkin letter.


              It is strange that, quoting Wikipedia, the opponent "accidentally" missed, for example, such a moment:
              According to the stories of the former Minister of Health of the USSR E.I. Smirnov, in 1949 he proposed to Stalin to put Mehlis (Minister of State Control) at the head of one of the government commissions. To this, Stalin "began to laugh, clutching his stomach and wiping away tears":
              - But is it possible to appoint Mehlis to creative affairs? Here is something to destroy, defeat, destroy - for this it is suitable.

              The war did not kill all the bad ones. Stalin's wisdom lies in the ability to benefit even from worthless people. The former mayor Stalin himself knew about some "usefulness" of informers. And Mekhlis is undoubtedly an outstanding informer!
        3. aleshka1987
          aleshka1987 13 June 2013 22: 38 New
          +1
          There are Jews - the salt of the earth, the lights of the world, saints practically people, but there are ... well, in short - bad people (a more precise name is not welcomed by the moderator). Freedom to the fraternal Jewish people enslaved by Kagal, etc.
    2. alicante11
      alicante11 14 June 2013 08: 59 New
      +3
      It's not about Slavs. Poles, for example, are also Slavs. And how much Bulgarians dirty Russia, the Slavs, but they got into NATO, and if anything, they, the Slavs, will tear us together with the Nuggosaxons. The fact is that there was a RUSSIAN man. Although the Georgians. If you understand me, of course.
      1. Kostya pedestrian
        Kostya pedestrian 14 June 2013 11: 12 New
        +1
        You look at the last football championship, it feels like the Poles have simply been replaced. I watched a video of Efimov’s speech at the FSB, as it said about all kinds of weapons, including genetic engineering.

        This is a good explanation, because television and radio are an ideal medium for zombies, how many bands do we recognize ?; as well as the use of psychology of influence in the formation of scenarios for series and television networks. It seems that it’s not possible or by chance - the editor is a very secret profession in the studios, for example, you google for different important people from the world of finance or politics, and you see how many r = a pour out on one without respect for the person or position, but on others (actually in r = eee) only the good. The grid is primarily a tool for planning goals, and computers / Internet - initially created a calculation system for artillery men.
  • cartridge
    cartridge 13 June 2013 19: 52 New
    +5
    ... the Stalinists "were still distinguished by their spaciousness and elegance. If this idea were realized, we would not have labyrinths of gray boxes of cramped faceless" Khrushchevs ", but well-thought-out neighborhoods (with squares or clubs in the center) of quite decent housing.


    A good example of this is Minsk. The quarters erected according to the Stalin canons of urban planning in the post-war years personally delight me every time I visit this wonderful city.
  • fatty
    fatty 13 June 2013 19: 58 New
    +3
    Guys, this song was written by Igor Shaferan and Andrei Minkov. And it was performed by Valentina Tolkunova. If anyone listens, pay attention, you were older than you, and I would have been younger, my dear, if there had been no War. I in the sense that I’m old and stupid. well, of course, idiots have their own music. with uv. Mikhail. Dear youth.
  • waisson
    waisson 13 June 2013 19: 58 New
    +2
    I think better than now China
  • AntonR7
    AntonR7 13 June 2013 20: 00 New
    -3
    If yes, if only. History has no subjunctive mood. If anything, if there hadn’t been a revolution, then the country would have developed without shocks and won the 1st World War, there would have been no children of orphans, and industry and villages. households would not have to be lifted again. But we can only take into account mistakes, and alas, we can’t correct the past, so let's wind up and not make mistakes, if possible. And we will save Russia from heavy shocks in the future.
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 13 June 2013 20: 08 New
    +1
    Quote: AntonR7
    If yes, if only. History has no subjunctive mood. If anything, if there hadn’t been a revolution, then the country would have developed without shocks and won the 1st World War, there would have been no children of orphans, and industry and villages. households would not have to be lifted again. But we can only take into account mistakes, and alas, we can’t correct the past, so let's wind up and not make mistakes, if possible. And we will save Russia from heavy shocks in the future.

    I agree !! But alas, Russia without shocks .. it’s not Russia .. here we are .. just an analysis of our history we would have lived a hundred years without a war, alas, all unreason comes to us .. We must save the world .. as always ..
    1. AntonR7
      AntonR7 13 June 2013 20: 14 New
      +1
      Ah, how pleasant and at the same time the burden of the rescuers of the world is heavy :)
  • Algor73
    Algor73 13 June 2013 20: 10 New
    -10
    Interesting approach. But the author clearly went overboard about Khrushchev. What kind of time bomb did he plant that exploded in the 80s? And what did he ditch? It was for Khrushchev (according to the stories of the parents) that agriculture developed at a rapid pace. The sausage was constantly getting cheaper, etc. There were kinks (corn), but at that time kinks were everywhere! But he developed rocket science and how! I am not an adherent of it, but I try to look at things objectively. And Stalin is painted well in bright colors. Yes, thanks to him, the country escaped from the backward agrarian (the author compared it with today's Ukraine - you might think it’s different in Russia - where is AZLK, for example?) Into a developed industrial one. But at what cost! Now you can talk while sitting at a computer, and in those days when there was really no food, clothes where he had no right to open his mouth, where they sent them to Siberia for three spikelets, then I would look at the author and his articles, wherever he was. And the Union collapsed not at all through the fact that someone once "laid a mine", we all destroyed it ourselves - remember how we worked - it seemed like we went to work, but worked carelessly; how everyone "drank" - they drove right and left both cement and brick, and the same bearing; what were the additions to the fulfillment of the plan, what quality was in our products. In principle, the quality is no better now. But then we are now free (only from whom?), We breathe the air of freedom (I don’t smell it for some reason), we say that we will think about it (but not about the authorities and not under the authorities), we eat what we see (only this is what see what we eat?). The article could be good, but it is not objective. She didn’t give her a minus, but she didn’t give it a plus. This is the view of the author. I expressed my opinion. Who will minus, indicate the disadvantages of the reasoning. I'm not afraid of cons, it's just that the topic is painfully sore, since I'm from the USSR
    1. Ratibor12
      Ratibor12 13 June 2013 22: 33 New
      +2
      Quote: Algor73
      But the author clearly went over Khrushchev

      Quote: Algor73
      I expressed my opinion. Who will minus, indicate the shortcomings of reasoning.


      In place of a cruel, but, whatever one may say, wise leader, a cunning came, Lord forgive me! His impulsiveness and shortsightedness caused damage to the country.
    2. AntonR7
      AntonR7 14 June 2013 09: 01 New
      -2
      Thanks to Stalin, she escaped from a backward agrarian country ?! Gee ?! And the fact that the factories and factories before the revolution was like the sea ?! Mines ?! yellow the road ?! No need to listen to komunyag who ascribe feats to themselves, everything that they achieved after the revolution is based on Ros. empire, not from scratch.
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 13 June 2013 21: 03 New
    -2
    Quote: Rattenfanger
    Quote: MIKHAN
    Surrounding Stalin, there were many Jews and then Georgians at first ..

    1) How many - in percentage terms - were Georgians and Jews surrounded by I.V. Stalin? L.P. Beria and L.M. Kaganovich. A Georgian and a Jew (not Zh_i_d_ya_r_a, but a Jew, I emphasize) The most talented and devoted people of the country. Who else?
    (how much blood? in liters? smile )
    2) So why is it still the 41st on the conscience of I.V. Stalin? Did he command the troops?

    Come on .. really so nervous .. really .. I respect Stalin .. I raised the country to an unprecedented level in our history ... and what I liked Stalin felt the nation .. who betrayed and who not .. Well, like that .. And
    he shed a lot of blood .. Russian in particular .. Now you can also take the pose "We'll tear everyone apart" although they are not ready for war .. Now diplomats and special services must work and our military-industrial complex factories .. and that's all .. otherwise again the boys ) will have to be sent to the slaughter ...
  • individual
    individual 13 June 2013 21: 04 New
    10
    The author writes real life in the USSR.
    All industrialization plans interrupted by the war.
    The science and technology created in the USSR under the skillful leadership of Stalin broke the head of the most powerful machine of German fascism.
    At a time when all Western democracies were kneeling before the Nazis.
    And American imperialism made money from the misfortunes of all warring.
    GLORY TO THE SOVIET PEOPLE WINNING FASCISM!
  • Abakanets
    Abakanets 13 June 2013 21: 07 New
    -9
    Author drink poison.
    1. Ratibor12
      Ratibor12 13 June 2013 22: 36 New
      +1
      Quote: Abakanets
      Author drink poison.


      Commentator drink a blizzard.
    2. bogdan
      bogdan 13 June 2013 22: 42 New
      -1
      And you, sir, are not reasonable, right.
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 13 June 2013 21: 26 New
    +2
    Quote: individ
    The author writes real life in the USSR.
    All industrialization plans interrupted by the war.
    The science and technology created in the USSR under the skillful leadership of Stalin broke the head of the most powerful machine of German fascism.
    At a time when all Western democracies were kneeling before the Nazis.
    And American imperialism made money from the misfortunes of all warring.
    GLORY TO THE SOVIET PEOPLE WINNING FASCISM!

    Well written .. !!! I agree ... Russia knows how to punish all evil spirits .. We see such a fate .. It is not in vain that they want to destroy us as a nation for what century .. Slavs will break through .. !!
  • VOLCHOXURAL
    VOLCHOXURAL 13 June 2013 21: 43 New
    +6
    Damn it, how is it? recourse
  • 128mgb
    128mgb 13 June 2013 22: 08 New
    -2
    My dad, I was a fool to call him Dad after the army and he was offended then I did not understand, I understood much later why. So he said: If yes, if only mushrooms had grown in your mouth. And my dad, 8th year of birth, has seen a lot.
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 13 June 2013 22: 27 New
    -1
    Quote: Igarr
    Guys ...
    read yourself ...
    Not sick?
    .
    I happen to write with a drunk ... who know me - they filter me right there ..
    and then what ??? - you all drunk, or what?
    Ah, business? .. zombies, in all its glory ...

    laughing Come on, it just happens sometimes ..
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 13 June 2013 22: 38 New
    -4
    Stalin and Stalin .. Sakashvilli or Kadyrov’s whiskers we’ll stick and put in the Kremlin ... Enough if yes before .. worn off .. somehow .. Russia just needs to be loved !!! .. and not if so if ..