Military Review

Omsk Bars: an experienced tank T-80-М1

46
The first domestic production tank with a gas turbine engine T-80 fairly quickly demonstrated its modernization potential. By making small adjustments, it was possible to constantly improve its technical and combat characteristics. At the same time, the combat vehicle was not only improved at the Leningrad Kirov Plant, where it was developed. Several new modifications of the T-80 were created at the Omsktransmash plant, which mass-produced this technique. In the second half of the nineties, Omsk tank builders presented a new modernization project for the T-80, which had, as it seemed, a great future.


Omsk Bars: an experienced tank T-80-М1


Prototype of the new tank The T-80U-M1 Bars was first shown at the VTTV-97 exhibition in Omsk. It is worth noting that the first appearance of this armored car did not receive much publicity. At the same event, the Transport Engineering Design Bureau presented its latest development (the Black Eagle tank), to which all the attention of specialists and spectators was riveted. Nevertheless, by this time the Omsk T-80U-M1 was already undergoing testing and, according to some sources, was almost ready for the start of mass production. Unfortunately, in the future, both promising projects remained at the prototype testing stage.

When creating the project T-80U-М1, Omsk engineers tried to improve the characteristics of the tank as a whole, but the main priority was to protect the crew, ammunition and aggregates. The most noticeable element of the updated protection of the tank was the antenna unit of the active protection system "Arena". This equipment was intended for the detection and timely destruction of enemy anti-tank ammunition flying to the machine. As the experience of the war in Chechnya showed, domestic tanks had insufficient protection against anti-tank grenade launchers, etc. systems. With the help of the "Arena" was supposed to significantly increase the survivability of the tank "Bars" on the battlefield. In case of a grenade or projectile breakthrough to the tank hull, the latter was equipped with an updated built-in dynamic protection. Integrated protection received and side screens. Finally, to counteract high precision arms the enemy tank T-80U-М1 received the system of optical-electronic countermeasures "Curtain-1".



According to some estimates, the simultaneous use of the "Arena" and "Curtains-1" increased the level of protection of the tank, at least three times. To increase the likelihood of survival on the battlefield, Bars was equipped with an updated system of radiation and chemical reconnaissance, new fire extinguishing equipment, etc. It was assumed that all these measures will be able to protect the tank and its crew from the majority of threats arising on the battlefield in various conditions.

Of great interest was the power plant of the tank. In the course of modernization, the standard mechanical transmission gave way to hydrostatic. In combination with the GTD-1250 gas turbine engine with 1250 horsepower. The new transmission has achieved a marked increase in mobility. According to reports, the average speed on a special highway increased by 10-12%, and in some of its sections - by a third. A more efficient transmission has reduced the fuel consumption of the 5-10% and increased the life of powertrain units and running honor. Upgrading the engine and transmission system has simplified the work of the driver. The control of the tank "Bars" was carried out using the steering wheel and two pedals. At the same time, the effort on the controls was significantly reduced. In the future, it was proposed to equip the T-80U-М1 with a new engine up to 1400 hp, however, such an upgrade remained in the plans.

The architecture of the weapons complex of the Bars tank remained the same. Nevertheless, in the turret of serial tanks it was supposed to mount several new systems, including the updated gun. As a weapon for the updated tank chose an upgraded version of the smooth-bore gun launcher 2A46M. This gun differed from the basic version with greater rigidity of the barrel, which gave an 20-percentage increase in the accuracy of the fire. Further improvement of accuracy was assigned to the 1А45 fire control system with a laser range finder, a set of sensors, a ballistic computer, etc. The gun was still equipped with a loading mechanism for 28 cells for shots, which ensured the rate of fire up to 7-9 shots per minute. The armament complex retained the possibility of firing 9М119 “Reflex” guided missiles. It was planned to equip the tank with thermal imaging devices for observing and aiming domestic or foreign production.



It is easy to see that about creating a new modification of the T-80 tank, Omsktransmash employees tried to raise the potential of the combat vehicle without making significant adjustments to its design. In fact, the only serious innovation that required major changes to the hull units was the new hydrovolume transmission. All other new systems were either mounted in place of the old ones, or did not need serious modifications to the seats. In the case of the start of mass production, this feature of the project would significantly reduce the cost of finished machines due to the absence of the need for large changes in the assembly process.

Nevertheless, both technical and economic advantages did not help the T-80-М1 tank to replenish the ranks of the equipment of the armed forces of Russia. In the late nineties, the army was financed very poorly, because of which it was necessary to constantly abandon the purchase of new equipment and weapons. In addition, the Omsk plant, which planned to produce tanks "Bars", was in distress. As a result, the next development of domestic tank builders replenished the sad list of projects that have passed the tests and on this ceased to exist.


On the materials of the sites:
http://alternathistory.org.ua/
http://vestnik-rm.ru/
http://otvaga2004.ru/
http://armor.kiev.ua/


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  1. knyazDmitriy
    knyazDmitriy 13 June 2013 08: 39 New
    +6
    So it is necessary to improve the project, to equip it with modern electronic means, and for this project it is necessary to modernize all tanks that are in service. for the north of the State Customs Committee is the most!
    1. Mikhado
      Mikhado 13 June 2013 09: 17 New
      +7
      Quote: knyazDmitriy
      So it is necessary to improve the project, to equip it with modern electronic means, and for this project it is necessary to modernize all tanks that are in service. for the north of the State Customs Committee is the most!

      Well, they won’t be written off, but they’re unlikely to do it, the cost of a turbine for a tank is a real luxury, in Soviet times the price difference was 10 times compared to diesel, alas.
      And the tankers of "whistlers" love, it is convenient to operate them.
      1. Russian
        Russian 13 June 2013 10: 10 New
        +2
        How is it not written off? There was even an article on the site, just the 80s were being written off, and the controversial modernized t-72s were arriving instead. So you're wrong, comrade.
        1. Nik One
          Nik One 14 June 2013 00: 07 New
          0
          Where is the T-80U written off replacing the modernized T-72?
      2. dustycat
        dustycat 17 June 2013 19: 03 New
        +1
        Strange, for the "black sharks", KA52 and the Coast Guard cutters to make it is not expensive.
        And for the price that T80 that Ka50 are almost the same.
    2. chaushevski
      chaushevski 13 June 2013 12: 45 New
      -15
      yeah, the burning match needs to be modernized
      1. cth; fyn
        cth; fyn 15 June 2013 11: 13 New
        +3
        Survive 18 hits from RPGs and earn the title of match?
    3. Argon
      Argon 13 June 2013 13: 42 New
      +2
      Unfortunately, this project, which is a set of new untested technical solutions, was initially doomed to failure. Its marketing policy generally raises many questions. Obviously, the machine (as presented) could only interest the Russian Ministry of Defense, but was lost against the background of the "black eagle" radically, at a new level that solved almost all the issues of the "leopard". The export potential of the car is relatively low (because of the cost) and could perhaps only interest South Korea, but the expediency of such a deal is far from unambiguous. I strongly disagree with the author that that the "first Chechen" showed the insufficient protection of our tanks. I think that the whole point is in the "competence" of the generals. Strengthening the protection of the "leopard" due to the "arena" raises some questions: Start "from the basement"? Defeat in the upper directions (by the way, all the promising ATGM systems of our sworn friends)? About the "curtain" we can say that the Indians, for example, strongly doubt its effectiveness, therefore it is not on the Indian T-90s. The use of the new transmission in those days actually was an adventure (there was no experience in the design and operation of high-load platforms for high-load platforms), an increase in fire hazard should be considered unambiguous (in the presence of a high-pressure platform), everything else is relative (I am sure that at -45 \ + 45 degrees the gas production plant does not contribute to an increase in the efficiency of the TPP) Regarding the 80ki, it is not a pity The T-80 is going down in history, with more stringent requirements for new tanks (including those of an economic nature) it is unlikely to find a place.
      1. dustycat
        dustycat 17 June 2013 19: 11 New
        +2
        Well, what is the fire hazard of tanks with gas turbine engines?
        They drive on the same solarium. (Besides kerosene, they can also consume almost any combustible liquid)
        The "gluttony" of the modern TGTD takes place only in comparison with the T55 and T62. But what is the power of those diesels?
        When compared with diesels of comparable power, the fuel loss is within 10%.
        So far, the cost of promising X-samples exceeds the cost of a gas turbine engine and, in general, introducing them under a big question is too complex, heavy, and fragile.
        1. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 17 June 2013 20: 23 New
          0
          Quote: dustycat
          So far, the cost of promising X-samples exceeds the cost of a gas turbine engine and, in general, introducing them under a big question is too complex, heavy, and fragile.

          Links in support of your words, where?
  2. Tartary
    Tartary 13 June 2013 10: 12 New
    +2
    ... Try to roll away from this ... Yes, even at Hammer ...

    The campaign will catch up and from .... t (has) .........)))))))))))))))))
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 13 June 2013 10: 23 New
      +9
      Quote: Tartary
      . Try to roll away from this ... Yes, at least on the Hammer ...

      The campaign will catch up

      Particularly famous was the case during one of the exercises of a group of Soviet troops in Germany, when the eighties who completed the roundabout maneuver took to the freeway near Berlin and swept along it, overtaking tourist buses.
      During the strategic headquarters game according to the scenario of the Great War, the T-80s reached the Atlantic by the morning of the fifth day of the offensive (at the T-80 headquarters they received the nickname "English tanks" for this)
      1. Avenger711
        Avenger711 13 June 2013 13: 31 New
        +3
        That's just the maximum speed of the tank has little to do with the speed of the unit as a whole.
        1. cth; fyn
          cth; fyn 15 June 2013 11: 14 New
          +1
          But in battle it is very important.
      2. Alekseev
        Alekseev 13 June 2013 14: 07 New
        +4
        Quote: Vadivak
        freeway near Berlin and swept along it, overtaking tourist buses.

        There is no need to repeat the "timid tale".
        You yourself tried to control the tank at a speed of at least 45-50 km / h. Yes, even on the pavement?
        Most likely not, otherwise they would not have shown such enthusiasm.
        Quote: Vadivak
        T-80 by the morning of the fifth day of the offensive

        Go to the appointed lines with fightsrather than "overtaking tourist buses" on the highway.
        It’s important not max. tank speed, and pace of attack.
        And for the t-80, there is also the presence of a huge fuel truck with kerosene or, at least, diesel fuel. Under the guarantee that tolerant Europeans will not burn them. laughing
        1. Kars
          Kars 13 June 2013 14: 24 New
          +4
          Quote: Alekseev
          There is no need to repeat the "timid tale".

          they are repeated in monographs
          1. postman
            postman 13 June 2013 18: 13 New
            0
            Quote: Kars
            they are repeated in monographs

            Forgetting, apparently indicate that vehicle movement was stopped and T-80s overtook on the highway STANDING VEHICLES, ON A SHORT section, after being caught in a "trap" of roads
            (Yes, differently and could not be, and even considering the "weak" orientation of the WGV contingent in the road signs even for the GDR)
            Of course, the "autobahn" from the GDR is not an autobah BRD (everything that was done under Hitler, those technologies remained)
            Joints, boom, boom, boom ..
            You can rate it yourself
            Not a tanker, I don’t know how the car will behave.
            BUT:
            1.Buses (tourist) in Germany traveled and travel at MIN speed. 80 km / h (if not in traffic)
            §18 Autobahnen und Kraftfahrstraßen
            1c) Kraftomnibusse ohne Anhänger oder mit Gepäckanhänger
            80 km / h,
            3.für Kraftomnibusse ohne Anhänger, die
            a) nach Eintragung in der Zulassungsbescheinigung Teil I für eine Höchstgeschwindigkeit von 100 km / h zugelassen sind,

            = And as a rule, all local ones are 100 km / h (having permission and verification for this), and like Poles from 80 km / h (de facto 90 km / h)
            2. The movement of vehicles that cannot provide a speed of movement above 50km / h is FORBIDDEN without accompaniment
            3. maximum speed and cruising T-80 you know
            4. Leopard rode 56km / h (official record) on the AUTOBAN (empty of course) for quite some time.


            but it was a polygon test, like:
            Leo vs Porsche 911

            5.On all the roads of Germany there is a road sign (such a small one, orange) = 50 km / h and a tank, T, E, their (Germany) roads are designed for NATO’s MBT movement (rubberized gusli and suspension) at such a speed. In Germany !, the GDR could not even dream of such roads.
            The calculation of the autobahn cover for vehicles during design is carried out at a speed of 250 km / h (vehicles, but not tanks)
            AND THIS HAPPENS SO:



            SEEING WHO WHO OVERCOMES

            Otherwise it will be like this:
            1. postman
              postman 13 June 2013 18: 17 New
              +2
              You can rate it yourself GDR ROADS






              = It may be interesting to demonstrate Vollbremsung ("braking to the floor" Leo2 A4 at a tempo of 75 K / mh


              but this is not ASPHALT?
              1. Kars
                Kars 13 June 2013 18: 55 New
                +3
                Quote: Postman
                Leo2 A4 at 75 K / mh

                75 on the dirt road, and then the burghers, and then our brave tankmen.
                I personally haven’t seen the case, but there’s nothing special. They jumped out how many people drove, overtook a couple of buses and back into the bushes. And we had enough storytellers, in 2000 when we drove the MLRS Smerch to the oath in the Ural barracks, the Cossacks crushed .
                1. postman
                  postman 13 June 2013 19: 39 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Kars
                  overtook a couple of buses and back into the bushes.

                  You did not understand:
                  1) T-80 CANNOT overtake a NORMALLY bus moving along the autobahn.
                  2) If the tanks "just like that" jumped out onto the autobahn, it would have been a collapse, believe me (I have been driving around Europe for 22 years) myself. This is not real! (Practically, of course), but sweeping away everything in its path (fencing from the beast, posts, crushing buses and automatic telephone exchanges) - probably yes.
                  But this was not. STANDING OVERCOMED (circled.
                  Hu from the autobahn (you will be the topic):
                  In 1997, like when he was at NHW (Bielefeld), a friend asked me to drive onto A2 (Ausf.Bi-Zentrum) and help the police with the translation. It turned out:
                  2 two trucks UKRAINIAN (with drivers your fellow countrymen) "tired" decided to park on the emergency braking lane and sleep ..... (You might think there is not enough space for them on Parkplatz and Tankstelle) ....
                  When I arrived, there was a car 1 km away with a Giant sign, narrowing, attention, slowing down, 3 cars at the scene of the "incident", with chandeliers, everything in the cones of the fence .... The radio sounded about it in full swing.
                  Ukrainians paid not frail fine (something 1200?)
                  And you say "a column of tanks, drove out, overtook and drove off ..."
                  GDR is certainly not Germany, but everything is very similar.
                  1. Kars
                    Kars 13 June 2013 20: 02 New
                    +3
                    Quote: Postman
                    GDR is certainly not Germany, but everything is very similar.

                    What can I say, maybe it may not - I prefer the remainder of the opinion that was.
                    about the problems with the exit - all the same, frankly speaking, these were our occupation troops. And I recall a story --- there’s even somewhere a photo about Su 122 that left without a driver and rammed the church in the same Germany. And the question about dispersal T -80 to 70-100 km is to the tankers who are here advertised.
                    1. postman
                      postman 13 June 2013 20: 46 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Kars
                      these were our occupation troops.
                      NK why so ... And yet the T-80 column and 1 on the Su-122 = two big differences ...

                      Quote: Kars
                      .A question about the acceleration of the T-80 to 70-100 km is to the tankers who are here announced.

                      it is possible and simply to the factory, the manufacturer of the GTD-1250
                      http://www.klimov.ru/production/landmarine/GTD-1250/
                      1. Kars
                        Kars 13 June 2013 21: 06 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Postman
                        http://www.klimov.ru/production/landmarine/GTD-1250/

                        Abrams accelerates to 100-110 if the limiters are removed.
                        And even 80 is very good.
                      2. svp67
                        svp67 13 June 2013 21: 16 New
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        Abrams accelerates to 100-110 if the limiters are removed. And even 80 is very good.

                        During the tests of the T80UD, the testers on the dirt track did not forcefully accelerate this car to 100 km, often overtaking cars traveling along the highway ... But the T80 with the gas turbine engine will be slightly more dynamic.
                      3. postman
                        postman 13 June 2013 21: 27 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Kars
                        Abrams accelerates to 100-110 if the limiters are removed.

                        Yes, even up to 200.
                        IN THIS SPECIFIC (Our) case: REMOVED THE RESTRICTOR? at the Column?
                        Quote: Kars
                        And even 80 is very good.

                        1) Well, do you remember that in reality (NOT ON WAR!) No one drives at such speeds. Then I would have been full with MTO.
                        2) A T-80 moving (even if so) at a speed of 80km / h (YES MORE and a COLUMN!) Will never overtake tourist buses moving at a speed of 90km / h ...
                        3) not bad. and who says what's bad?
                        But no matter how you are a supporter of the GTA, for the 4th generation, everyone (!) Develops:
                        or a diesel engine with a capacity of 1800 liters. with. together with a continuously variable hydromechanical transmission with power branching, or a diesel generator set with electric transmission.
                        NGP
                        EDIT
                        FCS

                        about gtu all "forgot". And for some reason, Abrams for export is developed with a diesel engine.
                      4. Kars
                        Kars 13 June 2013 21: 38 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Postman
                        IN THIS SPECIFIC (Our) case: REMOVED THE RESTRICTOR?

                        Here the question is more likely whether the T-80 has it, on Abrash it seems to be like electronic, like on foreign cars.
                        Quote: Postman
                        Well, you remember that in reality

                        Cannot accept the version of exception? etc

                        Quote: Postman
                        will never overtake tourist buses moving at a speed of 90km / h ...

                        well, they’re already talking about 100
                        Quote: svp67
                        T80UD testers on a dirt track didn’t forcedly accelerate this car to 100 km, often overtaking cars traveling along the highway ... And the T80 with a gas turbine engine will be slightly more dynamic


                        and maybe the bus drivers with a fright slowed down, from sin on.



                        Quote: Postman
                        But no matter how you are a supporter of the GTA, for the 4th generation, everyone (!) Develops:
                        or a 1800 liter diesel engine

                        I personally have no addiction to propulsion systems at all
                      5. svp67
                        svp67 13 June 2013 22: 07 New
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        and maybe the bus drivers with a fright slowed down, from sin on.
                        During these tests, a dirt road running parallel to the highway was used, so that no one interfered with anyone. And the factory workers had a specific task, in the shortest time to "roll" the required mileage. This tank stopped only for refueling, a quick assessment of the condition and a change of the driver ...
                      6. Kars
                        Kars 13 June 2013 22: 08 New
                        +2
                        Quote: svp67
                        In these tests, a dirt road running parallel to the highway was used.

                        You re-read it from the beginning, in a speech about Germany and the GSVG
                      7. svp67
                        svp67 13 June 2013 22: 36 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Kars
                        You re-read it from the beginning, in a speech about Germany and the GSVG
                        The dynamic properties of the T80 are very high, and I believe that a single crew or a pair of crews could accelerate to maximum speeds in some area ... But most likely, they did it on the ground, the Germans had good primers, and GSVG tank tracks ( column paths) kept in a proper condition. And the "eighties" was good, unlike us, who served on the T64, they went to and from the landfill on their own ... Here is a video about the T80, quite enough to have some idea about it. only in it there is one puncture - the authors, by mistake, inserted frames with the passage of two T64s in one place, since they are quite similar ...
                      8. svp67
                        svp67 13 June 2013 22: 39 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Kars
                        GSVG

                      9. postman
                        postman 13 June 2013 22: 50 New
                        -2
                        Quote: Kars
                        You re-read it from the beginning, in a speech about Germany and the GSVG

                        killed ... on a tumble
                  2. postman
                    postman 13 June 2013 22: 57 New
                    -2
                    Quote: Kars
                    Here the question is more likely whether the T-80 has it

                    Necessarily ... and not ONE. This is TURBINE.
                    Left town if NECESSARY и NO by you, REMIND in front I will send a manul to her face on it, the GRIF is REMOVED, will you master 4 meters?
                    Quote: Kars
                    Cannot accept the version of exception? etc

                    again, "Uncle Okama's razor razor": if this were the case, then what thread of the document remained, except for the OBS.
                    This event, on a European scale, anyway ...
                    Quote: Kars
                    well, they’re already talking about 100

                    my grandmother used to say: "They say they milk chickens, but don't put cows on eggs" ...
                    A. Malakhov: "let them talk"
                    Quote: Kars
                    and maybe the bus drivers with a fright slowed down, from sin on.

                    This is a more real version (I would have definitely braked and dumped it on the emergency abandonment strip), well, or 1n remaining (lost) was catching up with the column.
                    But in your note, the clipping says OTHER
                    Quote: Kars
                    I personally have no addiction to propulsion systems at all

                    I love diesel
                  3. Kars
                    Kars 13 June 2013 23: 03 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Postman
                    I love diesel

                    )))))
                    Quote: Postman
                    VARIETY REMOVED, can you master 4 meters?

                    I have such
                    Tank T-80B. Object 219. Memo to the crew on the operation. 1979
                    Tank T-80B. Object 219P. Memo to the commander. 1987
                    Tank T-80B. Object 219P. Memo to the gunner. 1987
                    Tank T-80B. Object 219P. Manual for checking the technical condition. 1981
                    Tank T-80B. Technical description and instruction manual. Book 1
                    Quote: Postman
                    Left town

                    you on the spot))
                  4. postman
                    postman 14 June 2013 00: 26 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Kars
                    you on the spot))

                    out of town ... we have the "St. Petersburg summer" in full swing, "white nights" on the nose.
                    Yes, and deer, while food needs to be counted, we keep statistics with our son about local deer (drivers)
                  5. postman
                    postman 14 June 2013 01: 02 New
                    0
                    Quote: Kars
                    I have such

                    I have a CLEAR AND SPECIFIC only about gas turbine
            2. Bad_gr
              Bad_gr 13 June 2013 21: 52 New
              0
              Quote: Postman
              2) A T-80 moving (even if so) at a speed of 80km / h (YES MORE and a COLUMN!) Will never overtake tourist buses moving at a speed of 90km / h ...

              And who said that a bus with tourists overtook a column of tanks? It always appeared that the TANK overtook the bus (that is, one thing).

              The column moves like an accordion: gathering in some places, stretching out in other places (and in these places the tanks move at maximum speeds to reduce the distance to the previous tank). And as a result, the speed of the column itself is not high.
            3. postman
              postman 13 June 2013 23: 01 New
              -1
              Quote: Bad_gr
              And who said that a bus with tourists overtook a column of tanks? It always appeared that the TANK overtook the bus (that is, one thing).

              Here:
              Quote: Vadivak
              when having completed a workaround Eighties We reached the freeway near Berlin and swept along it, overtaking tourist buses.

              and here actually:

              Or do I not understand the Russian language? WHERE TANK?

              Quote: Bad_gr
              The column moves like an accordion: in

              I know what a column is, its average speed, etc., Truth is not tanks.
              My column to 16 units ... was
          2. Lopatov
            Lopatov 13 June 2013 22: 01 New
            0
            Quote: Postman
            IN THIS SPECIFIC (Our) case: REMOVED THE RESTRICTOR? at the Column?


            The column is three minutes a kilometer. Otherwise, the column turns into an accordion.
          3. postman
            postman 13 June 2013 23: 08 New
            0
            Quote: Spade
            The column is three minutes a kilometer

            Yes Yes..
            When there are no special instructions, keep a distance of 25-30 meters.
            ....
            The average speed of movement of a tank column, consisting of two or more tank battalions:
            on the highway or the improved Bolshak - 12–16 km / h
            on a field road with significant elevations - 10-12 km / h
            On bad roads, column roads and when driving at night, the speed of the march is reduced.
            Throws within one hour can take place on good roads or on a good stretch of terrain at a speed of 25–40 km / h.
            The normal daily transition of a tank formation is on average 80–100 km (8 hours of movement and 2 hours for halts); forced daily passage 130–150 km (10–12 hours of movement and 3-4 hours for halts).
            The marching voltage limit of a tank formation should be considered a distance of 300-400 km, which can be covered in 3-4 normal or 2 forced and 1 normal transition.

            ..
            Well, and so on.
            Only we about the "limiters", during "one of the exercises of a group of Soviet forces in Germany" on "eighties" (column)
            wink
          4. Lopatov
            Lopatov 13 June 2013 23: 35 New
            +1
            To rush along the public road in a convoy, overtaking riding buses, absolutely frozen crews are needed. And an even more frostbitten commander with pronounced antisocial behavior. Someone like the famous killer A. Thessaloniki.
          5. postman
            postman 13 June 2013 23: 56 New
            0
            Quote: Spade
            To rush along the public road

            So I am about the same ....

            I can offer another option:
            general illiteracy of internet residents bordering cretinism
            as an example:
            http://topwar.ru/22785-sovetskie-boevye-mashiny-s-200-v-irake.html
            ("I shot down two Tornadoes... Recorded by V. Smolentsev. "Warrior's Day", ╪ 1, 1997)
            http://topwar.ru/22170-oruzhie-s-pereva.html
            therefore, the "micropulus" should fly at a speed a thousand times faster, that is - 1000km / s.
            http://topwar.ru/28652-ekonomika-sovetskogo-kosmosa.html#comment-id-1201173

            So, in 1989, the Soviet press finally published reports on the work on creating a heavy N-1 rocket. Had these works for which about 2.5 billion rubles.,

            Well, or type:
            Quote: smprofi
            and bookmarks in Iraq in 1991 worked.
  • Aleks tv
    Aleks tv 13 June 2013 19: 27 New
    +1
    Quote: Postman
    Yes, it could not be otherwise, and even taking into account the "weak" orientation of the WGV contingent in the road signs, even for the GDR


    Vasily, I don’t understand from your two posts what you wanted to say on the topic. Everything is mixed somehow. No offense. not a minus.
    And for the info of the Leo movement on the autobahns - thanks.
    1. postman
      postman 13 June 2013 19: 46 New
      0
      Quote: Aleks tv
      Vasily, I don’t understand from your two posts what you wanted to say on the topic.

      I myself do not understand ..... SHYUTK.
      Wanted to say:
      Quote: Postman

      1) T-80 CANNOT overtake a NORMALLY bus moving along the autobahn.
      2) If the tanks "just like that" jumped out onto the autobahn, it would have been a collapse, believe me (I have been driving around Europe for 22 years) myself. This is not real! (Practically, of course), but sweeping away everything in its path (fencing from the beast, posts, crushing buses and automatic telephone exchanges) - probably yes.

      Well, of course to prove (logic, Uncle Okama's Razor). REPEAT:
      1) This was not the case, as TTX T-80 and TX tourist of the touristic bus refute this and do not allow it to be done, and the same thing
      2) If it was, they overtook STANDING vehicles (with special escort)
      3) There is no reliable data about this (How Leo drove with the X6, yes, how Leo drove along the BUNDESTRESSE WAY with the Porsche 911 yes)
      Quote: Aleks tv
      Everything is mixed somehow.

      I am tongue-tied since childhood and in a hurry recourse
      Quote: Aleks tv
      No offense. not a minus.

      What insults? Minus with an explanation of what it is for the benefit. For this we write
      Quote: Aleks tv
      And for the info of the Leo movement on the autobahns - thanks.

      Take a trip to Augusdorf, in the village of Romelya, on an open day, and they will not show it.
      I was impressed by the mannequins (they say with pig blood), for practicing the mental stamina of recruits when running in tanks. (again I went off topic, chichas mins boo)
      1. Aleks tv
        Aleks tv 13 June 2013 20: 19 New
        +1
        Quote: Postman
        I myself do not understand ..... SHYUTK.


        Glad you took it with humor. hi

        This story about the T-80 on the autobahn was constantly discussed by ALL tankmen and was a kind of pride, perhaps ...
        Over the decades, overgrown with many legends. Either there were civilians, or they were driving. Either tanks rushed along the autobahn, or cut off the path. It was proved that one of the tanks was behind the convoy and catching up, developed high speed, overtaking the flow of cars ... Dofiga versions, and all believable, with witnesses. smile
        I think that this was not an isolated case, but several, so the mess went. This is likely.

        Quote: Postman
        This was not so, as TTX T-80 and TX tourist of the touristic bus refute this and do not allow it to be done, and the same thing


        But such a case (s) was stopudovo, without a doubt. Moreover, it was the GDR highway and the GDR traffic rules. And our Soviet Army felt quite comfortable there.
        And it’s really difficult to keep high speed in the convoy, especially on tanks, especially on the highway. This is ARCHITIC, believe me, traction disappears.

        Quote: Postman
        Take a trip to Augusdorf

        I often travel to Europe by car and camper. I know perfectly well the current speeds of cars and buses, here you are right, it would be difficult to repeat this on the FRG autobahn, the speeds have changed.

        It was nice to talk.
        1. postman
          postman 13 June 2013 21: 19 New
          0
          Quote: Aleks tv
          Wazoo versions, and all believable, with witnesses.

          We have a disease with witnesses ...
          Already wrote. Little (about 7 years), I remember the stories of Witnesses,like a laser burned to Daman Chinese .......
          The storyteller gave me a 100% guarantee (I will say the dance ...)
          Quote: Aleks tv
          GDR traffic rules.

          Only the FRG had a chance to hand over traffic rules, but according to experience ..... the GDR was not much different, even more nuts were twisted (The case in Schönefeld, the seizure of DEM from the "Russo-tourist" EXACTLY by the former GDR customs officers)


          Quote: Aleks tv
          I know perfectly the current speed of cars and buses

          Thank God since 2008 I stopped dreaming of driving on the German autobahn, and in a dream I don’t speak German. fellow
          I don’t need navigation in Germany ......
          Quote: Aleks tv
          It was nice to talk.

          mutually
  • Bad_gr
    Bad_gr 13 June 2013 19: 19 New
    +2
    Quote: Postman
    Forgetting, apparently indicating that the vehicle was stopped and the T-80 overtook the STANDING vehicles on the highway,
    In the film, where these events are mentioned, it is spoken on behalf of a witness who EXHALED on a tourist bus and was overtaken by a tank. The speed on the bus speedometer was 90 km / h.

    I fully admit that on the asphalt the T-80U tank with its 1250 horses can be dispersed to a hundred, but just maneuvering at this speed is fraught with not good consequences (just straight)
    1. postman
      postman 13 June 2013 19: 57 New
      0
      Quote: Bad_gr
      on behalf of a witness who drove in a tourist bus and was overtaken by a tank.

      At least a photo? (I've laid out Leo's braking from 75 to the floor)
      "Witness".....
      EVERYTHING I REMEMBER THE ARTICLE ON TOPVAR: Confession of a real Russian officer who shot down Americans in IRAQ on the S-300 complex, with direct fire "(well, other nonsense that cannot be conveyed)
      Quote: Bad_gr
      The speed on the bus speedometer was 90 km / h.

      Maximum speed T-80 = 70 km / h
      Well, at least here:
      http://www.dtig.org/docs/Russian_Tanks.pdf
      Or at the manufacturer’s factory, OR AT KARS
      How is it possible, having a maximum speed of 70km / h, to overtake a vehicle moving at a speed of 90km / h?
      RIDDLE
      Quote: Bad_gr
      I fully admit that on the asphalt the T-80U tank with its 1250 horses can be dispersed to a hundred,

      1.NOT FIT
      2.Probably, with the tower removed, the fuel-efficient base, drained of fuel (only as for a record race, tuned gas turbines and transmissions, using super lubricants, etc. (Formula 1), I would try, but, see paragraphs 3,4,5
      3. Most likely the whole transmission would fly
      4. For such somersaults, the initiator of this would probably be put in a turma.
      5. At 100% would cover the autobahn cover (Germany for sure, but the GDR and even more so)
      I repeat the Germans calculation of coverage at 50km / h reverse for MBT
      6. It would be a world sensation and .... and an intergovernmental scandal.
      1. Vadivak
        Vadivak 13 June 2013 21: 44 New
        +4
        Quote: Postman
        6. It would be a world sensation and .... and an intergovernmental scandal.


        I tested all the posts, which tanker I am in FIG
        1. postman
          postman 13 June 2013 23: 10 New
          0
          Quote: Vadivak
          Plus all the posts

          Vadim ....
          I see current unmotivated cons smile
      2. M. Peter
        M. Peter 14 June 2013 17: 35 New
        +2
        Quote: Postman
        How can having a maximum speed of 70 km / h overtake a vehicle moving at a speed of 90 km / h?

        Or maybe it’s that the maximum speed is the speed that is prescribed? And the tank itself can take more, just for some reason it’s just not worth it. Chassis simply can not stand or something. I’m working on the train, so we also have the prescribed speed for the VL85 locomotive no more than 100 km / h, although I personally accelerated it to 130 km / h. And here it is exactly the same.
        We (we) conscripted T-72s up to 70 km / h (some and even more) were dispersed.

        He once watched a video about Abrams, mega-plants repairing a tank, so it was said that their tank had a speed limit, which they created artificially in order to use longer. And so they say, if you remove the restriction, then the tank can be dispersed up to hundreds.
        1. postman
          postman 16 June 2013 02: 04 New
          -1
          Quote: M.Pyotr
          Or it may be that the maximum speed is the speed that is prescribed

          1. is written maximum. WHY DO THE PRODUCER UNDERSTAND TTX?
          2. Prescribed and maximum - two big differences, much less for railway (track condition)
          3.
          Quote: M.Pyotr
          We (we) conscripted T-72s up to 70 km / h (some and even more) were dispersed.

          All the time he laughed at his neighbor: "I'm flying at 99 (vaz) 194 km / h, and here is a traffic cop"
          ??
          Jura, see the passport data of the MANUFACTURER PLANT !! I use a simple formula. DO NOT STARS ...
          That did not persecute: "I am flying at a speed of 194 km
          h to 99, and you noob be quiet "
          4.
          Quote: M.Pyotr
          that their tank has a speed limit,

          Turbine.
          And the transmission will fly anyway, even if removed and worn
  • Vadivak
    Vadivak 13 June 2013 14: 57 New
    +2
    Quote: Alekseev
    You yourself tried to control the tank at a speed of at least 45-50 km / h. Yes, even on the pavement?


    The dream of a lifetime and more expensive cars, who didn’t hide, I’m not to blame, but monographs are shy tales
    1. postman
      postman 13 June 2013 23: 18 New
      0
      Quote: Vadivak
      Dream of a lifetime

      Augustdorf 21 tank brigade,16.06Open Day.
      T-80 will not be given, but Leopard 2 A6 M, howitzer 2000, Marten 1 A5, Puma, Scorpio, Beaver, Wild boar and so on.
      The interest of the demonstrator is 90% probability, if the WB tanker is 100% given "to steer".
      Foreign cars really no
  • Aleks tv
    Aleks tv 13 June 2013 16: 20 New
    +2
    Quote: Alekseev
    Quote: Vadivak
    freeway near Berlin and swept along it, overtaking tourist buses.
    There is no need to repeat the "timid tale".
    You yourself tried to control the tank at a speed of at least 45-50 km / h. Yes, even on the pavement?
    Most likely not, otherwise they would not have shown such enthusiasm.


    Vadim, Alexey, you are both right, as it were.

    Yes, there was a similar example when a column of a tank battalion entered the autobahn. It is a fact. It seems that the battalion commander was warned for this (but these are rumors from the "army smoking room").

    Partially agree about the speed mode.
    I personally tried to disperse the T-80 to the dream 100 km.h (the main service was on the T-72). As a result, the car began to go sideways, shorter in spacing and anywhere.
    When speeding the ground and the harp are very important, what they are and what kind of weather. And besides, as it turned out later, I had a slight difference in the tension of the gusli, which was not noticeable at low speed.
    In short - high speeds on the T-80 is a very serious application for professionalism, I believe in it. But the bouncers, of which there are many, are not.
    Regards, Alexey.
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 13 June 2013 16: 50 New
      +2
      Quote: Aleks tv
      Vadim, Alexey, you are both right, as it were.

      Thank you Alexey, I didn’t say anything, I just gave an example of dashing and that’s all, and the fact that eighty was walking along the highway 70 km is a fact, and now imagine a bus driver and he’s not going to overtake .....
  • M. Peter
    M. Peter 13 June 2013 18: 09 New
    +1
    Quote: Alekseev
    You yourself tried to control the tank at a speed of at least 45-50 km / h. Yes, even on the pavement?

    70 km / h was the case, the main thing is not to touch the levers, fooling into a ditch on such a fool is not the best prospect, but it was terribly ridiculous at that speed.
    1. Aleks tv
      Aleks tv 13 June 2013 19: 47 New
      +3
      Quote: M.Pyotr
      70 km / h was the case, the main thing is not to touch the levers, fooling into a ditch on such a fool is not the best prospect, but it was terribly ridiculous at that speed.


      Greetings, Peter. hi

      Yes, be careful with the clutches.
      You can and should touch them, but just a little bit, literally with your fingertips, and immediately let go, in no case do not hold for a long time even a little squeezed oil booster in the BKP, otherwise the animal scribe just smiles immediately.

      And sycotically - yeah, it was when he went sideways. I had a little higher speed.
      I was glad to read the comments, maybe someone else will remember about our "formula-1 on mammoths".
      wink drinks
  • dustycat
    dustycat 15 June 2013 20: 57 New
    0
    In a straight line without turns - what problems ?!
    In a rustling raid in front of the main advance - the speed itself.
    According to the experience of the Second World War - even a single tank that appeared in the rear - very completely demoralized and even more than combat-ready units are very demoralized.
    And it greatly facilitates the breakthrough of the main group.
  • Tartary
    Tartary 13 June 2013 10: 31 New
    +2
    Quote: Vadivak
    Quote: Tartary
    . Try to roll away from this ... Yes, at least on the Hammer ...

    The campaign will catch up

    Particularly famous was the case during one of the exercises of a group of Soviet troops in Germany, when the eighties who completed the roundabout maneuver took to the freeway near Berlin and swept along it, overtaking tourist buses.
    During the strategic headquarters game according to the scenario of the Great War, the T-80s reached the Atlantic by the morning of the fifth day of the offensive (at the T-80 headquarters they received the nickname "English tanks" for this)

    It is clear, after all, that he does not need to catch up with the bus or what other armored car, but the maneuver and speed are impressive ...
    Although, we are all so nimble ...))) And not to harness for a long time and will be fast.
    I saw in the video the strained movement of "Abrams" along the landfill - heaven and earth ...

    Somehow in the comments they wrote that according to the amerovsky specialist, if "Abrams" so wants to get out, having managed to accelerate, then a pile of metal and bones in a super salon will come to the ground ...)))
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 13 June 2013 10: 41 New
      +2
      Andrey, why are you silent? Again in an ambush?
      1. Kars
        Kars 13 June 2013 12: 55 New
        10
        And what can I say? What in the 90s, thanks to the whim of some and the prospects of cheapness, instead of upgrading the T-80U decided to make a new type of T-90 tank? By the way, it turned out that they were cheaper, but the index was changed while being trampled on the spot from 10 to 15 years?

        By the way, an interesting photo with broken glass.
        1. Aleks tv
          Aleks tv 13 June 2013 14: 43 New
          +1
          Quote: Kars
          interesting photo with broken glass.


          Yes, a rare photo.
          Yes, and a few photos of Barca on the internet, all standard.
          Thank you.
          1. Vadivak
            Vadivak 13 June 2013 15: 33 New
            +2
            Quote: Aleks tv
            Yes, a rare photo.


            Sometimes divided when in the mood
  • unclevad
    unclevad 13 June 2013 11: 59 New
    +1
    Who would tell how things are going with Armata?
    1. Avenger711
      Avenger711 13 June 2013 13: 32 New
      +1
      But who will you be? American Shpien?
  • Aleks tv
    Aleks tv 13 June 2013 14: 07 New
    11
    T-80 tankers have always shown respect. High-tech and serious car.
    And modernization to the level of Bars was recognized even by amers as one of the best.
    What is only the introduction of hydrostatic transmission and an increase in specific power to 27 hp / t ...

    It is a pity that the gas turbine engine is shutting down. Although it was not necessary to serve tightly on these machines, the reviews of colleagues were unanimous: the best power plant in terms of operational properties. Almost did not cause hemorrhoids in the service. And the output of equipment for combat alert in the winter is generally a song.

    If the T-80 is coming at you, the car is not heard at all, even at close range.
    Yes, it was a breakthrough tank to the English Channel.

    A Bars - Beauty:
    1. postman
      postman 13 June 2013 20: 40 New
      0
      Quote: Aleks tv
      If the T-80 is coming at you, the car is not heard at all, even at close range.

      ? can compare yourself
      GTD-1000T / GTD-1250 noise level = no more than 80 dB (1 m) (note for Mobile gas turbine mini-CHP "VULCAN 800/1500")


      from B-84MS = not more than 72 dB (note for MTU 600 kW / 750 kVA diesel power plant)
      I didn’t find the record, but it’s hardly very different:


      try to squeeze the PCA pedal ... and the factory?

      ? And the tracks and the clanking of everything else?
      Then the benefits are more true
      • ease of start-up from +40 to -40 degrees Celsius ... AT HIGH REQUIREMENTS FOR T-80 BATTERIES!
      • T-80U operational readiness - 3 minutes, for Russian diesel tanks - up to 30 minutes
      • engine stallability with increasing load, for example, when a tank is poked
      • low engine volume and mass (1050 kg at 1250 hp).
      • lack of a liquid cooling system, and therefore the cost of power for it.
      • higher engine life (2-3 times).
      • due to easier tank handling, reduced fatigue and increased

      But the loss of power by 16% at 3000m

      But the thermal signature of the GTD-1000T can probably be observed from space

      The development of world tank building and the tank market in 2003-2012. define 25 special programs, of which 23 are diesel tanks, only 2 - to gas turbines. (Military Vehicles Forecast, Forecast International / DMS, 2003.)
      1. Aleks tv
        Aleks tv 13 June 2013 21: 02 New
        +4
        Quote: Postman
        can compare yourself


        Basil, yes somehow I don’t need to compare, more than 10 years in the tank forces.
        Mainly on the T-72B, (numerous modifications of the 184 object), but it is familiar with both the T-64 and the T-80. Although I do not consider myself an expert, so, black oil.

        According to the combination of combat and operational properties, I think the T-72 is better.
        I respect T-80 with deep respect. I wrote this above and tirelessly continue to repeat.
        Request - do not enter into a debate about which tank is better, this rubbing of the TTX and TTD has already become rather tired. The article is about Bars.

        Quote: Postman
        And the tracks and the clanking of everything else?

        The T-80 initially had a harp with a rubber lining on the inside, which, together with rubberized rollers and hinges, gave complete silence.
        Those. when the T-80 moves towards you, it is really almost inaudible almost "all the way."
        wink
        1. postman
          postman 13 June 2013 23: 29 New
          0
          Quote: Aleks tv
          Basil, yes somehow I don’t need to compare, more than 10 years in the tank forces.

          I’m out of luck ... All rockets yes rockets
          Quote: Aleks tv
          Request - do not enter into controversy

          Not at all. I’m generally just about the case "80s overtook tourist buses on the Autobahn", or rather into the unreality of this.
          What is written about Bars, I agree.
          Quote: Aleks tv
          The T-80 initially had a harp with a rubber lining on the inside, which, together with rubberized rollers and hinges, gave complete silence.

          I heard Leo, standing next to him ..... well, he clangs anyway and quite strongly.
          eyes, fingers, track on the track, hitting stones by m / y tracks and rollers, "slapping" the track on the supporting surface, the work of the Tensioner
          well, etc.

          Quote: Aleks tv
          on you, it is really practically inaudible almost "all the way".

          1.Alexey, but in the physics of being ... no difference on or from you ...
          SOUND SPEED 340M / S , what is compared with her +/- 20m / s?
          2. The video that I posted ... it leads some kind of reverse association.
          Although ... maybe my hearing is too "sharp"
  • Dimka off
    Dimka off 13 June 2013 15: 29 New
    +4
    It’s a pity that often worthy samples never reach the troops.
  • Svyatoslav72
    Svyatoslav72 13 June 2013 15: 53 New
    +1
    Very sorry and unreasonable. Such a large country should have mobile reserves, preferably if they were high-speed. Moreover, GTDshny tanks can also be successfully sold. We must return to the T-80 and seriously upgrade them, you look and 90 sticks will be cured of 72 serious diseases, competition.
    Stop digging the loot at the Olympiads and new gangways, pouring resources into the "fats of the oligarchs" and slut-chinos and also pleasing the Caucasus. We can afford TWO leading design bureaus and several defense plants on the same topic, this is not a blessing, this is the best investment.
    1. Crang
      Crang 13 June 2013 19: 04 New
      0
      Quote: Svyatoslav72
      you look and 90 sticks will be cured of 72 serious diseases, competition

      And what is this "disease" if not a secret? There is no more reliable T-72 and a tank in the world. They are fighting in Syria for six months without a single repair, receiving 30 hits from RPGs during this time. And nothing.
      1. Svyatoslav72
        Svyatoslav72 13 June 2013 19: 25 New
        -3
        Quote: Krang

        And what is this "disease" if not a secret? There is no more reliable T-72 and a tank in the world. They are fighting in Syria for six months without a single repair, receiving 30 hits from RPGs during this time. And nothing.

        AND! to climb and study the topic (performance characteristics / tests / claims / requests) broke? I don’t need to talk about Syria, you yourself don’t ride the T-90 in Syria. Even look through the history of the origin of the name "T-90", you will find a lot of interesting things, if there is interest. Good luck.
  • MRomanovich
    MRomanovich 13 June 2013 17: 16 New
    +2
    Quote: Svyatoslav72
    We must return to the T-80 and seriously upgrade them, you see and 90 sticks will be cured of 72 serious diseases, competition.

    unfortunately, this will never happen. UVZ - this is no longer Khukhra-Mukhra, it will not give up until the second coming of Christ or until the advent of radically new technologies.
    1. Svyatoslav72
      Svyatoslav72 13 June 2013 19: 28 New
      -1
      Quote: MRomanovich
      unfortunately, this will never happen. UVZ - this is no longer Khukhra-Mukhra, it will not give up until the second coming of Christ or until the advent of radically new technologies.

      I agree! It is necessary to squeeze from above, with the help of the Military Specialists and the Defense Commission.
  • Crang
    Crang 13 June 2013 19: 03 New
    0
    A good tank, but we can’t afford to have two T-90A and T-80UM1 main tanks almost identical in terms of performance characteristics. We chose the best as a result.
    1. Kars
      Kars 13 June 2013 19: 10 New
      +3
      Quote: Krang
      We chose the best as a result.

      The outbursts weren’t the best, but the one with the plant management had more connections. And the T-90A, in principle, shouldn’t have appeared if at least a quarter of the resources that went into the development of the T-80 had been spent on modernizing the T-90


      Quote: Krang
      nor do they fight in Syria for six months without a single repair, receiving during this time 30 hits from RPGs. And nothing.

      And you won’t be able to prove anything naturally, especially about six months without repair, this is not realistic when used and in a peaceful environment.
      1. svp67
        svp67 13 June 2013 20: 15 New
        +1
        Quote: Kars
        Scorch is not the best, but the one who has more connections in the plant management turned out to be

        Everything is even simpler - you just have to remember where the first president of Russia comes from ...
      2. Crang
        Crang 13 June 2013 21: 35 New
        0
        Quote: Kars
        And you won’t be able to prove anything naturally, especially about six months without repair, this is not realistic when used and in a peaceful environment.

        There is video - an interview with a Syrian tankman about his T-72AV. Take a look. On his tank there is no living place from enemy hits. According to the tanker, the tank fought for 6 months without repair.
        Quote: Kars
        The outbursts weren’t the best, but the one with the plant management had more connections. And the T-90A, in principle, shouldn’t have appeared if at least a quarter of the resources that went into the development of the T-80 had been spent on modernizing the T-90

        Choose the best. And what resources? Iron T-90 is better. And electronics is a thing that can be put on any tank, even on the T-55. And she, this electronics itself - is the same on both tanks since both tanks are ours.
        1. Kars
          Kars 13 June 2013 21: 43 New
          +1
          Quote: Krang
          ideo is - an interview with a Syrian tankman about his T-72AV. Take a look. On his tank there is no living place from enemy hits. According to the tanker, the tank fought for 6 months without repair.


          He exaggerates, you know, like fishermen?
          Quote: Krang
          Choose the best.

          worst available
          Quote: Krang
          And what resources?

          cash
          Quote: Krang
          Iron T-90 is better

          worse
          Quote: Krang
          . And electronics is a thing that can be put on any tank, even on the T-55

          but at the same time it’s still necessary to cut metal, otherwise why dorobotki are mentioned when moving the control system from T-80U to T-90, they also paid money on them.

          So thanks to the T-90 tank construction of the Russian Federation, it took a minimum of 15 years to stomp on the spot.
          1. Crang
            Crang 13 June 2013 21: 49 New
            +3
            Quote: Kars
            worst available

            Best. The expert commission of Russia on tanks will be more competent than the proud Ukrainian uncle. We chose the T-90 and this fact. And you cannot change this fact. Not like that. No matter how much shit you pour, you won’t change it. T-90! T-90! T-90! Ay-ay-ay laughing
            1. Kars
              Kars 13 June 2013 22: 02 New
              +1
              Quote: Krang
              The Russian expert commission on tanks is more competent

              What are you sick of? By EBN?
              Quote: Krang
              T-90! T-90! T-90! Ay-ay-ay

              In what else to expect.
              Quote: Krang
              We chose the T-90 and this is a fact.

              Were the comparative tests? When?
              1. Crang
                Crang 13 June 2013 22: 29 New
                0
                Quote: Kars
                Were the comparative tests? When?

                In Chechnya, there were comparative tests of the T-72B and T-72A with the T-80BV. 72 matches proved to be better, more protected, more tenacious, more reliable.
                1. Kars
                  Kars 13 June 2013 22: 52 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Krang
                  Chechnya had comparative tests of the T-72B and T-72A with the T-80BV. 72 matches proved to be better, more protected, more tenacious, more reliable.

                  By the way, no))))

                  In Chechnya, the T-80BV - demonstrated the ability to withstand up to five hits (or even more) of anti-tank grenades, without losing combat effectiveness (even with empty KDZ blocks).

                  My subjective opinion is that the T-80BV proved to be a more reliable machine than the T-72. At the railway station of six T-80BV tanks NN180,185,187,189 (715), 174,176 - irreparable losses amounted to only one tank - N174. Two tanks NN185,187 - went under their own power on pl. Ordzhonikidze as a result of a breakthrough. N176 - until the end it is unclear who knocked him out? All equipment was on the same line of defense with 131 Motorized Rifle Brigades.
                  And yet, along with the shortcomings listed above, I think (subjective opinion) - the T-80BV proved to be better than the T-72A, T-72B, as I personally saw.

                  V Igor Viktorovich: Chechnya 95
                  1. Crang
                    Crang 13 June 2013 23: 04 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Kars
                    In Chechnya, the T-80BV - demonstrated the ability to withstand up to five hits (or even more) of anti-tank grenades, without losing combat effectiveness (even with empty KDZ blocks).

                    And T-72 in Chechnya has demonstrated its ability to withstand up to 10 hits from RPGs. The record was set by a certain T-72B which withstood 17 hits from RPG-7, RPG-18 and RPG-22 and still broke through to its own.
                    1. Kars
                      Kars 13 June 2013 23: 16 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Krang
                      And T-72 in Chechnya has demonstrated its ability to withstand up to 10 hits from RPGs. The record was set by a certain T-72B which withstood 17 hits from RPG-7, RPG-18 and RPG-22 and still broke through to its own.

                      Well, you give it a practical))) I, unlike you, brought it. Challenger 2, by the way, also withstood no less. And in Chechnya, the T-80s were greedy to send the whole war. People are cheaper.
                      1. Crang
                        Crang 13 June 2013 23: 25 New
                        -1
                        Chechnya was full of T-80BVs and many of them were destroyed there.
                        Quote: Kars
                        .Challenger 2 by the way also withstood no less.

                        Where is it? Isn't it where the RPG-29 "Vampire" first shot struck frontal armor "Challenger-2" as a result of which the driver's leg was blown off?
                      2. Kars
                        Kars 13 June 2013 23: 34 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Krang
                        Chechnya was full of T-80BVs and many of them were destroyed there

                        The storyteller you need to prove your words Pruff - you lie too much)))
                        Quote: Krang
                        Where is it? Isn't it where the first shot from the RPG-29 "Vampire" pierced the frontal armor

                        T-72 and RPG-7 are lined with one lined))
                        Quote: Krang
                        "Challenger-2" as a result of which the driver's leg was blown off?

                        And 72 would most likely catapult the tower)) from 29.


                        British Army sources said that one of their Challengers working near Basra absorbed 15 RPG hits, without penetration.
        2. Crang
          Crang 13 June 2013 21: 50 New
          +1
          Quote: Kars
          worse

          It is better.
          Quote: Kars
          but at the same time it’s still necessary to cut metal, otherwise why dorobotki are mentioned when moving the control system from T-80U to T-90, they also paid money on them.

          They didn’t rearrange anything, but simply put the same one. In addition, the T-90A electronics is even more advanced than the T-80UM1.
          1. Kars
            Kars 13 June 2013 22: 06 New
            +1
            Quote: Krang
            It is better.

            worse
            Quote: Krang
            They didn’t rearrange anything, but simply put the same

            ))))))))) but not better))
            Quote: Krang
            In addition, the T-90A electronics is even more advanced than the T-80UM1.

            Really?
            The prototype of the new T-80U-M1 Bars tank was first shown at the VTTV-97 exhibition in Omsk

            and the T-90A in 2006)))))))))))) it would be funny to be worse, I would have laughed at all.
            1. Crang
              Crang 13 June 2013 22: 11 New
              -2
              Quote: Kars
              worse

              It's better. Be-be-be-be.

              Quote: Kars
              Really?

              My true son.
              1. Kars
                Kars 13 June 2013 22: 13 New
                +1
                Quote: Krang
                My true son. Be-be-be-be.
        3. Crang
          Crang 13 June 2013 21: 52 New
          0
          Thanks to the T-90, we got ahead, while the "independent" one remained at the level of technology at the best of the late 80s. Here is anger that parses.
          1. Kars
            Kars 13 June 2013 22: 00 New
            +1
            Quote: Krang
            Thanks to the T-90, we pulled ahead

            This is self-deception, in 2006 with the T-90A you just caught up with the T-80U
            Quote: Krang
            while the "independent" one remained at the level of technology in the best case of the late 80s

            Yes, of course, just don’t worry so much - the UVZ killed the Leningrad and Omsk tank design bureaus and they have no more competitors, and now they are successfully ruining armature, even your guru Khlopotov in this article recognizes.
            Quote: Krang
            That anger then parses.
            Ata, for sure.
            1. Crang
              Crang 13 June 2013 22: 07 New
              0
              Quote: Kars
              This is self-deception, in 2006 with the T-90A you just caught up with the T-80U

              The basic T-80 "Vladimir" has at least caught up with the T-90U, and I emphasize it in red for you several times several times explained why in the previous tank cover. But you are an interested person - to explain something to you is like trying to explain something to a concrete pillar. So I won’t do it again.
              Quote: Kars
              Yes, of course, just don’t worry so much - the UVZ killed the Leningrad and Omsk tank design bureaus and they have no more competitors, and now they are successfully ruining armature, even your guru Khlopotov in this article recognizes.

              Why ditch? Well, if only the Leningrad and Omsk Design Bureau would ditch UVZ, so what? There was fair competition and UVZ won. He turned out to be stronger, and his tanks are better - nothing can be done.
              Quote: Kars
              Ata, for sure.

              Well - it’s not me Krang - I came to your Ukrainian website and in the Ukrainian language began to prove to everyone there that the T-84 was rubbish and the engine was on it from a moped. It’s you Kars came to the Russian site, where in Russian you are trying to prove to everyone that our T-90 is rubbish. So the aggressor is you, not me. And you are evil too, and I am good. And good always conquers evil. smile
              1. Kars
                Kars 13 June 2013 22: 16 New
                +1
                Quote: Krang
                The basic T-80 "Vladimir" has at least caught up with the T-90U, and I several times, I emphasize in red, explained several times in the previous tank-racer why

                You cannot explain anything in principle, since there is a complete zero in the hardware.
                Quote: Krang
                Why ditch? Well, if only the Leningrad and Omsk Design Bureau would ditch UVZ, so what? There was fair competition and UVZ won. He turned out to be stronger, and his tanks are better - nothing can be done.


                It would be better if UVZ made cars,))))
                Quote: Krang
                Well - it’s not me Krang - came to your Ukrainian site

                What are you)))
                Quote: Krang
                It’s you Kars came to the Russian site, where in Russian you are trying to prove to everyone that our T-90 is rubbish. T

                What is what is, and vet could be with the best tanks much earlier.
                Quote: Krang
                And you are evil too, and I am good

                Is this some kind of mental disorder?
                1. Crang
                  Crang 13 June 2013 22: 22 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Kars
                  You cannot explain anything in principle, since there is a complete zero in the hardware.

                  Full zero is just you. You can't even say that nichrome, like an old woman. I have to prove everything to you, despite the fact that I have already proved everything to you twenty times.
                  Quote: Kars
                  It would be better if UVZ made cars,))))

                  UVZ makes you the best tanks in the world for evil and you’re nothing, I emphasize NOTHING you can’t do it.
                  Quote: Kars
                  What are you)))

                  And what? Not this way?
                  Quote: Kars
                  What is what is, and vet could be with the best tanks much earlier.

                  So you are evil. That same universal evil. That unclean who has been trying to bite my homeland for so many centuries. Take your T-84 and go on it back to hell Kars. Maybe your tank will help you there. Although no - the engine is shit, it will not withstand high temperatures.
                  Quote: Kars
                  Is this some kind of mental disorder?

                  No, I'm completely normal. fellow T-90A is better because it is better.
                  1. Kars
                    Kars 13 June 2013 22: 27 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Krang
                    about nichrome you can’t, like an old woman. I have to prove everything to you, despite the fact that I have already proved everything to you twenty times.

                    ))))))))))))
                    Quote: Krang
                    For evil, UVZ does the best tanks in the world for you and you, I emphasize nothing, can do anything about it.

                    This is personally YOUR problems)))
                    they hide from the public the actual failure of the program. Isn't there a paradox in this? No, everything is very simple - it is very easy for our military customers to cover up their eyes ... more precisely, to fill them in ... Then they will be shown something self-propelled and futuristic, and the generals, like small children, will clap their hands. Don’t think that I’m trying to make our generals look like idiots - they are really like that in life. Blurring the eyes of the wide expert community is much more difficult. There is always a "smart guy" who drew attention to absurdities and other different "little things" that give out bullshit. Namely, in the form of a bullshit, "Armata" will be presented at a private show

                    http://gurkhan.blogspot.com/2013/06/blog-post_2588.html
                    Quote: Krang
                    And what? Not this way?
                    )))) Well, yes, the last thing that you have left to appeal is that you are the owner of the price and therefore right)))

                    Quote: Krang
                    So you are evil. That same universal evil. That unclean who has been trying to bite my homeland for so many centuries

                    I am pleased, thank you. Be sure to share this with your psychiatrist.

                    Quote: Krang
                    T-90A is better because it is better.
                    just because))))
                    1. Crang
                      Crang 13 June 2013 22: 35 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Kars
                      This is personally YOUR problems)))

                      Yes, we have no problems. We are satisfied with our T-90A tank and do not choose a tank for us well? And then he will choose shit on purpose.
                      Quote: Kars
                      )))) Well, yes, the last thing that you have left to appeal is that you are the owner of the price and therefore right)))

                      No, I didn’t say that at all. I cannot forbid you to be present. There is a question of the principle itself - WHY? And why are you a kid on a Russian site pouring mud on Russian tanks? For what purpose? Come on already - show everyone your true face.
                      Quote: Kars
                      I am pleased, thank you. Be sure to share this with your psychiatrist.

                      I am glad that you liked my warmth towards you. As in the Bible - good for good. smile
                      Quote: Kars
                      just because))))

                      Better is better. Do not argue. I know the truth, but you do not.
                    2. Kars
                      Kars 13 June 2013 22: 48 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Krang
                      Yes, we have no problems

                      Self-deception will not bring to good.
                      Quote: Krang
                      We are satisfied with our T-90A tank and do not choose a tank for us well? And then he will choose shit on purpose.

                      Well, for the beginning of the T-90A YOU have little, and there’s nothing to choose for YOU)) 0lessly your Leopard will buy it anyway))) And the vets could now have several thousand modernized T-80UE4
                      Quote: Krang
                      No, I didn’t say that at all. I cannot forbid you to be present.
                      C'mon, you’ve already said ten times that this is your site))))
                      Quote: Krang
                      And why are you a kid on a Russian site pouring mud on Russian tanks?

                      Is the attack already telling the truth? And the T-90 is most likely a Soviet tank, if you discard the T-90MS, which in principle are not there, the T-90A is not very far from the prototype, approximately like the T-84 of the 1990s
                      Quote: Krang
                      Come on already - show everyone your true face.

                      Yes it’s on the profile picture,
                      Quote: Krang
                      Better is better. Do not argue. I know the truth, but you do not.

                      I know the truth))))))) and the truth because because)))
                    3. Crang
                      Crang 13 June 2013 23: 02 New
                      0
                      Quote: Kars
                      Self-deception will not bring to good.

                      Ah "caring" you are ours. Can we do it well ourselves?
                      Quote: Kars
                      Well, for the beginning of the T-90A, YOU have little, and there’s nothing for you to choose))

                      According to various sources, from 300 to 800 pieces. This is no less than the number of the latest modifications of the Abrams in the US Army, for example.
                      Quote: Kars
                      A vet could now have several thousand modernized T-80UE4

                      Could not. We do not need him. This is shit. And expensive shit.
                      Quote: Kars
                      Is this an introduction already?

                      Truth is no crime. Although in some cases a crime. But you are not telling the truth and there is no forgiveness to you.
                      Quote: Kars
                      The T-90A is not very far from the prototype, roughly like the T-84 of the 1990s

                      I have already explained many times how the T-90A is different, but you see dumb. T-90A utterly better and T-84 and T-90 of the first releases.
                      Quote: Kars
                      Yes it’s on the profile picture,

                      Noo - this is a werewolf. And you show the true gut.
                      Quote: Kars
                      I know the truth))))))) and the truth because because)))

                      The truth is that the T-90 is better. You have to get used to it, Kars. Deal with it. Stop murmuring deafly. Obey the truth. And sprinkle ash on your head.
                    4. Kars
                      Kars 13 June 2013 23: 10 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Krang
                      Ah "caring" you are ours. Can we do it well ourselves?

                      Yes, what am I doing? I’m just about history))) do what you want,
                      Quote: Krang
                      According to various sources, from 300 to 800 pieces. This is no less than the number of the latest modifications of the Abrams in the US Army, for example.

                      according to various sources))) and Abrashi will have to count with M1A1NA
                      Quote: Krang
                      Could not. We do not need him. This is shit. And expensive shit.

                      Mogli. WAS needed, but you lohanul now only have to spit out, but about the price you are not kidding with UVZ)))
                      Quote: Krang
                      I have already explained many times how the T-90A is different, but you see dumb. T-90A utterly better and T-84 and T-90 of the first releases.

                      T-90a is worse than T-84, and barely barely reached the level of T-80U
                      Quote: Krang
                      Noo - this is a werewolf. And you show the true gut.

                      Why do you need my photo? Are you like a fagot?
                      Quote: Krang
                      The truth is that the T-90 is better.

                      Better what?
                      Quote: Krang
                      You have to get used to it, Kars. Deal with it. Stop murmuring deafly. Obey the truth. And sprinkle ash on your head.

                      Like a nutty fanatic)))
                    5. Crang
                      Crang 13 June 2013 23: 19 New
                      -1
                      Quote: Kars
                      Yes, what am I doing? I’m just about history))) do what you want,

                      Wow - even allowed.
                      Quote: Kars
                      according to various sources))) and Abrashi will have to count with M1A1NA

                      M1A1NA is already a junk. Then we need to count with the basic T-90, T-72BM and T-80U.
                      Quote: Kars
                      Mogli. WAS needed, but you lohanul now only have to spit out, but about the price you are not kidding with UVZ)))

                      Not needed. Not needed. We will not accept for nothing. Leave me alone! Leave the unclean! No. Never!
                      Quote: Kars
                      Better what?

                      Best of all other tanks.
                      Quote: Kars
                      Why do you need my photo? Are you like a fagot?

                      Me not. But even a fagot on a horned ungulate with a patch on his nose will not get up.
                      Quote: Kars
                      Like a nutty fanatic)))

                      Again he is with this sign. Go to the toilet with her. I have another tablet. If so, 20 more than yours. Especially touches the maximum speed of the T-90A at 60km / h. How many times already explained. How many times diddonil - 60km / h gave out the base T-90 with an engine of 840l.s. T-90A with 1000l.s engine. accelerates to 65km / h.
                    6. Kars
                      Kars 13 June 2013 23: 25 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Krang
                      Wow - even allowed

                      I do not mind)))
                      Quote: Krang
                      M1A1NA - already old

                      just under 90A,
                      Quote: Krang
                      Not needed. Not needed. We will not accept for nothing. Leave me alone! Leave the unclean! No. Never!

                      Yes, they haven’t already taken))) now UVZ as a monopolist will not give anything))
                      Quote: Krang
                      Best of all other tanks.

                      Well, better T-72a)))
                      Quote: Krang
                      Me not. But even a fagot on a horned hoof with a piglet on his nose will not get up
                      It is strange if you all know why you need my true face)))
                      Quote: Krang
                      I have another tablet. If so, 20 more than yours

                      Why don’t you bring it? Stsikotno? Or haven’t drawn it yet?
                    7. Crang
                      Crang 13 June 2013 23: 28 New
                      -1
                      Quote: Kars
                      just under 90A,

                      M1A1NA then? Ha ha ha Amused. Nice bus.
                      Quote: Kars
                      It is strange if you all know why you need my true face)))

                      The public does not know yet.
                    8. Kars
                      Kars 13 June 2013 23: 35 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Krang
                      M1A1NA then? Ha ha ha Amused. Nice car

                      Well, what do you want, you yourself have chosen)))
                      Quote: Krang
                      The public does not know yet

                      It’s strange and I’ve been here much longer than you, and I’m writing all this not the first time))) and you turned out to be the smartest))))
  • djon77
    djon77 14 June 2013 00: 13 New
    +1
    most likely he naively believes that he is a true Jedi)
  • Papakiko
    Papakiko 13 June 2013 22: 52 New
    +2
    Quote: Kars
    all is well UVZ ditched the Leningrad and Omsk tank design bureaus

    How did this happen?
    Pogosyan ditched the Ilyushinsky Design Bureau, TUpolevskoye, Yakovlevskoye, Beria, Kamovskoye, Mikoyanovskoye and Antonovskoye - so what?
    "Sevmash" ditched "Zvezdochka", "Admiralty Shipyards" and so on - so chtol to take everything?
    1. M. Peter
      M. Peter 14 June 2013 06: 56 New
      0
      Quote: Papakiko
      How did this happen? Poghosyan ditched the Ilyushinskoe design bureau, Tupolevskoe, Yakovlevskoe, Beryevskoe, Kamovskoe, Mikoyanovskoe and Antonovskoe - so chtol? Sevmash ruined Zvezdochka, Admiralty shipyards, etc.

      +1
      UVZ is now not the same UVZ as before, the plant itself, it is now Omsk and the Leningrad Design Bureau, all together in one team. They do one thing, and do not collapse among themselves as before.
      1. Kars
        Kars 14 June 2013 08: 59 New
        +1
        Quote: M.Pyotr
        , this is now Omsk and the Leningrad Design Bureau, all together in one team.

        Really?
        Quote: M.Pyotr
        Doing one thing
        Well, yes, Leningrad does nothing and Omsk auxiliary vehicles and modernization of the T-72 with which the average tank repair plant does.
  • Svyatoslav72
    Svyatoslav72 13 June 2013 19: 37 New
    0
    Quote: Krang
    A good tank, but we can’t afford to have two T-90A and T-80UM1 main tanks almost identical in terms of performance characteristics. We chose the best as a result.

    You are mistaken, you chose by patronage, and for ease of upgrading the T-72 to the T-72 + level (7modernization of the T-72BV and 15modernization of the T-72). The T-80 has been pushed back from fuel economy, but this can be minimized. They chose not the best but a simplified version.
    For State interests, it is possible to maintain three MBTs without straining, but for ceremonial relics and the T-34 will pull.
    1. Crang
      Crang 13 June 2013 21: 37 New
      -1
      From your post you can immediately see that you have a very vague idea of ​​tanks. What is this T-72BV? Tell us more about this modification? And still trying to prove something there.
      1. Svyatoslav72
        Svyatoslav72 14 June 2013 06: 17 New
        -1
        Drive your sting on topics, and then hang noodles on your ears, "special for pasta."
      2. The comment was deleted.
  • flanker7
    flanker7 13 June 2013 19: 08 New
    +3
    An excellent running, trouble-free engine and advanced FCS made the T-80 the best domestic MBT at the beginning of the 90s. He served on the T-80 BV, the tanks were straight from the factory, and for all the time of service it was a reliable and trouble-free machine. I think that now it remains one of the best. Yes, and apparently it is the most aesthetic tank.
    1. Crang
      Crang 13 June 2013 22: 00 New
      -2
      The LMS on the base T-80 was roughly the same as the T-72.
      1. Aleks tv
        Aleks tv 13 June 2013 22: 44 New
        +2
        Quote: Krang
        The LMS on the base T-80 was roughly the same as the T-72.


        Not quite.
        On the T-72, the varieties of TPD-K1 always stood as the main sight.
        On the T-80 the whole line is: Varieties of TPD: TPD-K1 and TPD-2-49, varieties of 1G: 1G-42 and 1G-46 Irtysh.
        I’m not even talking about the LMS, heaven and earth. Those. TIUSy they are different.
        1. Crang
          Crang 13 June 2013 22: 54 New
          -3
          What? What TIUS? Do you know what TIUS is? The tank information and control system is the next generation after radio stations. A part of the tank's reconnaissance and information system, designed to communicate with other tanks, other combat assets and higher command. Displays video information on the display. The TIUS has nothing to do with the sighting equipment of the tank, although it can be integrated into it. Neither the T-72 nor the T-80 have any serial modifications of the TIUS. As for the sights, the TPD-2-49 optical rangefinder sight of the T-80 tank is inferior to the more modern TPD-K1 laser rangefinder sight of the T-72A tank and is similar to the TPD-2-49 sight of the T-72 "Ural" base modification. TBV and even more so an automated control system with a sensor system of input information T-80 did not have.
          1. Aleks tv
            Aleks tv 13 June 2013 23: 22 New
            +2
            Quote: Krang
            What? What are TIUSs? Do you know what TIUS is?

            No, I do not know. 10 years did not count, so, dabbled in buns in the 184 object.
            But the 1G series was more perfect than the TPD series, it makes no sense to talk about the rest, even though I am a fan of the T-72.

            In general, if it’s very rude to generalize (very rude), then a supporter of the position that you speak about in your posts, but the communication style ...
            You probably know everything. Well, as you wish.
            I have no desire to talk in this vein, it’s a pity to waste time.
            1. Crang
              Crang 13 June 2013 23: 26 New
              -1
              Quote: Aleks tv
              but the communication style ...

              Do not pay attention. Kars and I "liked" each other for a long time.
  • Genady1976
    Genady1976 13 June 2013 19: 19 New
    -1
    i have a secret tank
    1. Genady1976
      Genady1976 13 June 2013 20: 41 New
      0
      this is a T-80 specially scalded with iron
      1. Kars
        Kars 13 June 2013 23: 20 New
        +3
        Some T-80s do not like it here. It is evidently bitter to admit that they went along the dead-end branch of development.

        Object 292 on the T-80 chassis (modernized seven-roller), scalded for masking purposes
  • Genady1976
    Genady1976 13 June 2013 20: 00 New
    -2
    or maybe a month shot without stopping
  • svp67
    svp67 13 June 2013 20: 18 New
    +4

    Moderators do not count for advertising - WELL VERY PATRIOTIC THING ....
    1. postman
      postman 13 June 2013 21: 13 New
      +1
      Quote: svp67
      WELL VERY PATRIOTIC THING ....

      well, just what if "patriotic"
      PzKpfw V "Panther"
      NLD 60 mm thick at an angle of 53 ° to the normal
      Kubinka (control measurement): NLD - 65 mm and 55 °

      76-mm tank gun of the 1940 model of the year (Ф-34)
      even BR-350A from such (as in the distance movie) penetration and VLD 80 mm at 57 ° (Cuban: VLD 85 mm and 55 °)
      69 mm (“guaranteed penetration”) —86 mm (“initial penetration”) at a 60 ° HC with 100 m

      Break through .... if it is allowed at such a distance and if it falls.
      1. svp67
        svp67 13 June 2013 22: 13 New
        0
        Quote: Postman
        Break through ... if it is allowed at such a distance and if it hits.

        How is everything right ... Only in the video, the hit was not in the VLD, but in the NLD ... with a thickness of 65mm and in this case the meeting occurred at an angle close to 90 degrees ...

        1. postman
          postman 13 June 2013 23: 40 New
          0
          Quote: svp67
          Only in the video hit is not in the VLD, but in the NLD ...

          ??
          Quote: Postman
          NLD 60 mm thick at an angle of 53 ° to the normal

          I wrote about her !!!
          а
          Quote: Postman
          breakdown and VLD

          led in the sense that IF ALW VLD breaks through 100m under 60 grams, but NLD and even more so.
          Quote: svp67
          at an angle close to 90 degrees ...

          no
          1.53-10 (15)
          There is no slope of 53 degrees, try to put your picture on 53 gr. it's almost like a priest
          2. It is calculated from the normal to the surface, more correctly so
          3. The T-34 in the video seems to be in "flight", but in life they "fly" strictly from top to bottom, aiming for the center of the Earth, respectively, the axis of the weapon is not parallel to the ground, but also minus gr 5-8
  • Genady1976
    Genady1976 13 June 2013 20: 24 New
    0
    AvtoVAZ Technical Museum
  • Alexander D.
    Alexander D. 13 June 2013 23: 01 New
    +2
    The T-80U is a cool tank without a doubt ... but only in peacetime and for parades. To destroy such an expensive car in local conflicts with some RPG-7, and even more so in a large-scale war, only some rich and stupid country can afford it (financially) (you yourself understand who this is). In general, the car is a sight for sore eyes - namely the T-80U.
  • Genady1976
    Genady1976 13 June 2013 23: 11 New
    0
    the fighters pushed him
    1. Kars
      Kars 13 June 2013 23: 18 New
      +2
      it's 72 is not in this thread.
      1. Kars
        Kars 19 June 2013 18: 40 New
        +1
        Bad_gr Today, 18:25 | Omsk "Bars": experimental tank T-80U-M1
        Quote: Kars
        it's 72 is not in this thread.
        In the upper picture of the T-72, in the lower T-80. But what does the technique have to do with it? Purely human factor.


        can not be))))))))))
        1. Kars
          Kars 19 June 2013 19: 42 New
          +1
          Yes, I saw your photo where the T-80 is in the mud with an incomprehensible koment. I had to guess what it would be. Apparently, you wanted to say with this photo that the T-80 tank can go into the mud? or that the T-80 tank can go further into the mud than on the T-72? So, after all, the T-72 sits deeper ... so the T-72 has better passability (it crawled further into the mud).

          In general, I decided to comment on both photos and what I think about their content.
          The question why these photos are generally in this thread remains.


          So interested that you got out of the black list and remembered a bit? Well, for you, a hard-to-reach explanation, GenaXXX posted a photo with a bogging tank that turned out to be terribly T-72, which does not correspond to the topic of the article, about which I wrote a photo of a bogged down T-80.
          1. Kars
            Kars 19 June 2013 21: 27 New
            +1
            Bad_gr Today, 21:10 | Omsk "Bars": experimental tank T-80U-M1
            Quote: Kars
            So I got interested that I left the black list and remembered a bit?
            And who would talk about the cons? A man (with general epaulettes) who spent days searching for comments of an opponent on topics and setting him minuses everywhere. From such a misfortune, only transferring you to the Black List helped.

            PS
            If your messages didn’t come to the mail either (take from the topic) it would be generally good

            Quote: Kars
            ... well, for you, a hard-to-reach explainer, GeneXXX posted a photo with a bogging tank that turned out to be terrifying T-72, which does not correspond to the topic of the article, which I wrote about posting a photo of a bogged down T-80.
            It is clear: the T-80 photo is for those who do not know how this tank looks in the topic about the T-80.



            And who would talk about the cons? Man (with general epaulettes)

            Marshalsky, and do not flatter yourself a minute but at the same time it did not occur to me to withdraw from the emergency))


            PS
            If your messages didn’t come to the mail either (take from the topic) it would be generally good
            why did you subscribe to them? and learn how to use the site’s capabilities. Or contact the administration --- by the way, you already had to knock.

            It is clear: the T-80 photo is for those who do not know how this tank looks in the topic about the T-80.
            Yes, how long it comes to you.
            1. Kars
              Kars 22 June 2013 15: 49 New
              +1
              Oh how ....
              So, climbing on different topics and quietly minus all the opponent’s messages (more than 4000 points were taken in five days) is an act of a noble person, but my attempt to find out from the administration whether they punished me for something - does this mean snitching? As I already wrote, whoever rattled about, it became clear only after putting your name on my black list (after which the loss of points stopped).

              Marshall epaulettes, say ...
              And who didn’t tell you that the bird is visible on the flight?



              this is an act of a noble man

              never by the way claimed.
              five days more than 4000 points were withdrawn

              And so? I used to have 10 disappeared)))

              Climb on different topics and quietly minus all the opponent’s messages
              what to say I had to correct my mistakes --- it was necessary to immediately minus, and not to breed discussions with you, since the time of your picture with the on-board screen on BM Oplot.

              here is my attempt to find out from the administration whether they punished me for something - this means squealing
              Oh well, just squealing. The type is so slow-witted that you can’t understand that the administration can take a minus rating without putting a minus.

              As I already wrote, whoever rattled about, it became clear only after putting your name on my black list (after which the loss of points stopped).

              By the way, my decrease also stopped, although it’s more difficult for me to notice ---.

              Marshall epaulettes, say ...
              Like yes, despite the fact that I do not hide my views on the integration processes, and do not worry, shouting how bad everything is in Ukraine.
              And no one told you that the bird is visible on the flight
              In the Internet?
    2. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 19 June 2013 18: 25 New
      0
      Quote: Kars
      it's 72 is not in this thread.

      In the upper picture of the T-72, in the lower T-80. But what does the technique have to do with it? Purely human factor.
      1. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 19 June 2013 19: 32 New
        0
        Quote: Kars

        Bad_gr
        - In the upper picture of the T-72, in the lower T-80. But what does the technique have to do with it? Purely human factor.

        Kars
        - can not be))))))))))

        Yes, I saw your photo where the T-80 is in the mud with an incomprehensible koment. I had to guess what it would be. Apparently, you wanted to say with this photo that the T-80 tank can go into the mud? or that the T-80 tank can go further into the mud than on the T-72? So, after all, the T-72 sits deeper ... so the T-72 has better passability (it crawled further into the mud).

        In general, I decided to comment on both photos and what I think about their content.
        The question why these photos are generally in this thread remains.
        1. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 19 June 2013 21: 10 New
          0
          Quote: Kars
          So I got interested that I left the black list and remembered a bit?

          And who would talk about the cons? A man (with general epaulettes) who spent days searching for comments of an opponent on topics and setting him minuses everywhere. From such a misfortune, only transferring you to the Black List helped.

          PS
          If your messages didn’t come to the mail either (take from the topic) it would be generally good

          Quote: Kars
          ... well, for you, a hard-to-reach explainer, GeneXXX posted a photo with a bogging tank that turned out to be terrifying T-72, which does not correspond to the topic of the article, which I wrote about posting a photo of a bogged down T-80.

          It is clear: the T-80 photo is for those who do not know how this tank looks in the topic about the T-80.
          1. Bad_gr
            Bad_gr 22 June 2013 00: 34 New
            0
            Quote: Kars
            .... and learn how to use the site’s capabilities. Or contact the administration --- by the way, you had to knock .....

            Oh how ....
            So, climbing on different topics and quietly minus all the opponent’s messages (more than 4000 points were taken in five days) is an act of a noble person, but my attempt to find out from the administration whether they punished me for something - does this mean snitching? As I already wrote, whoever rattled about, it became clear only after putting your name on my black list (after which the loss of points stopped).

            Marshall epaulettes, say ...
            And who didn’t tell you that the bird is visible on the flight?
  • bublic82009
    bublic82009 13 June 2013 23: 48 New
    0
    it’s a pity that he didn’t go into series or did not upgrade old cars to this level
  • Genady1976
    Genady1976 13 June 2013 23: 50 New
    0
    I like this good
  • papik09
    papik09 14 June 2013 01: 45 New
    0
    Quote: Vadivak
    Quote: Tartary
    . Try to roll away from this ... Yes, at least on the Hammer ...

    The campaign will catch up

    Particularly famous was the case during one of the exercises of a group of Soviet troops in Germany, when the Eighties circumventing the maneuver took to the freeway near Berlin and swept along it, overtaking tourist buses.
    During the strategic headquarters game according to the scenario of the Great War, the T-80s reached the Atlantic by the morning of the fifth day of the offensive (at the T-80 headquarters they received the nickname "English tanks" for this)


    Lord! And this (well, so, by chance) did not happen in 1979 during the summer exercises of the Warsaw Treaty countries? If you are talking about this, then yes it was. Then the tank platoon commander (starlee, awarded the order of the Moscow Region in May 1979) received the rank of captain ahead of schedule (the exercises were in July, the order came in September). True, the buses did not overtake, but they drove along the autobahn with a breeze (they did not have time in time for the appointed point, gouging wassat ) The Germans were in shock. laughing
  • papik09
    papik09 14 June 2013 03: 06 New
    +1
    Quote: Aleks tv
    but the communication style ...

    Looks with the head is not complete order. winked I say in such cases that it’s too late for an abortion lol
  • papik09
    papik09 14 June 2013 04: 57 New
    0
    Sorry, add on the 1979 teachings. There were not "eighties", but "seventy two".
  • mkpda
    mkpda 14 June 2013 19: 05 New
    0
    The T-80 is an expensive and complex machine (not for the draft army, especially now), which requires a professional attitude. With a professional crew, the T-80U is the strongest domestic tank. T-72 and its development T-90 - primarily mobilization tanks, simpler and oak. In the 80s, two years were not enough for conscripts to fully develop the T-80.
  • mkpda
    mkpda 14 June 2013 19: 05 New
    0
    The T-80 is an expensive and complex machine (not for the draft army, especially now), which requires a professional attitude. With a professional crew, the T-80U is the strongest domestic tank. T-72 and its development T-90 - primarily mobilization tanks, simpler and oak. In the 80s, two years were not enough for conscripts to fully develop the T-80.
    1. Svyatoslav72
      Svyatoslav72 14 June 2013 20: 01 New
      -1
      Modern technique is generally complicated and expensive, and tactics are even more complicated, for this there are training sessions. But! since most of the time is spent on "trampling" the parade ground or "licking" it, there is no time left for practice. In two years you can prepare a professional, even in less time, and then "polish" him. But! this requires the correct recruitment of troops: sets; selections; retraining; running-in; shooting as well as social guarantees and well-organized life. The modern Army is generally an expensive undertaking, so why waste money on "stew" and semi-finished products. To fight - you need skill, having a number in reserve.)))
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • antikilller55
    antikilller55 15 June 2013 22: 13 New
    0
    The giant plant was sold to businessmen, there is no production, and this poor yellow T-80 is taken to the exhibition from year to year. It is not clear to whom and for what purpose it is shown ((((Although the tank is certainly beautiful, but the sound of a working turbine is generally fire)))
  • denis_redis
    denis_redis 16 June 2013 19: 03 New
    0
    but in Omsk they are proud of it!
  • Valery Saitov
    Valery Saitov 1 February 2018 07: 59 New
    0
    Nevertheless ... it became known that at the beginning of 2018 it is planned to complete the tests of the modernized T-80BVM tank.
  • Zashita_russia
    Zashita_russia 17 January 2019 14: 31 New
    0
    Tank T-80 UM1 "Bars" - generally the machine is "clear" !!! "Arena", "Blind" clever !!! Design Bureau of Omsk for this particular car only thanks! I hope that the potential of the 80's is not completely exhausted and the designers will return to increasing its survivability and modernizing it. Even if they give way to Nizhniy Tagil a little in creating a superiority vehicle in tank battles (T-90, T-14 ...), but I hope and think that the designer will take the direction to create a vehicle with increased armor, the modernized "Arena", "Shtora ", increased protection of trucks, will increase the variety and number of charges ... In a word, we need an" average light heavyweight "who will not be afraid of street battles in the city (ATGM, RPG, high-explosive mines ...) and work mainly on enemy manpower, to open reinforced concrete pillboxes, work on lightly armored vehicles ... Time now says that purely tank battles are rare, but the work of a crew + foot troops in the city has always been and will be almost in the first place in hostilities.