Military Review

Hungarian Special Operations Forces

20
Hungarian Special Operations ForcesNot much is known about the special forces of Hungary. This is most likely due to the legacy of the Soviet period. Nevertheless, we tried to collect and summarize information obtained from open printed sources, mainly foreign ones.


The first intelligence units of the Hungarian armed forces were established in 1919, shortly after the end of the First World War. They were subordinated to the military intelligence of Hungary, which in the same period began to act as an independent structure. The first reconnaissance battalions in the defense forces of the Hungarian Kingdom were formed in 1938.

In 1938, a small experimental unit Ejtoernyos was formed as part of the Hungarian Air Force. For the first jumps, parachutes were purchased in the USA, Germany and Italy. Jumps were made from biplanes during the First World War. Realizing the prospects opening up before the new branch of the military, the military command opened a military school for paratroopers at the Pope airfield. And on October 1, the 1939 of the year was formed by the Major Bartalan parachute battalion, named after one of the founders of the unit who died in a car accident.

During the Second World War, Hungary fought on the side of fascist Germany.

The battalion participated in only one parachute operation in 1941. After that, the Hungarian paratroopers fought as an infantry unit. They took part in battles on the Eastern Front in the spring of 1943, reinforcing the retreating Hungarian units and formations. Subsequently, in April - August 1944, the battalion fought desperately in the Carpathians. The remnants of the paratroopers became the basis for the battalion "Saint Laszlo", formed by Major Jougi in September 1944. The battalion fought on the side of the fascists until the last day of the war, after which the survivors surrendered to the British, but were transferred to the command of the Red Army.

After the end of the Second World War, the construction of the armed forces of the Hungarian People’s Republic (Hungary) began. In 1948, the creation of an reconnaissance airborne battalion, which was stationed in Szekesfehervar, was agreed with the Soviet side. However, after the events of 1956, the battalion, as well as units of the airborne division, which began its formation in 1950, was disbanded due to suspicion of supporting the rebels.

Troop scouts

After the end of World War II, the reconnaissance units of the ground forces became the elite of the Hungarian army. They were recruited by selective and ideologically resilient personnel, who in addition to general military training and underwent special training. Intelligence groups learned to conduct enemy reconnaissance both in tactical and operational depth. They practiced reconnaissance activities in various climatic conditions, including mountainous regions and areas with a cold climate. They were trained to overcome water obstacles with the use of both standard and improvised boats. The scout training program included classes in survival as well as the avoidance of captivity. Among the issues studied by intelligence officers from the detachment commander and above, was planning and carrying out active actions (“direct actions” - in accordance with modern NATO terminology) against the enemy’s intended targets and capturing his servicemen to obtain the necessary intelligence information. Depth reconnaissance units also practiced the use of light diving equipment for coastal operations.

In order to emphasize the elitism of the units and mark the difference in the assignment of troops, in 1980-ies of the last century, reconnaissance units received special insignia. Depth intelligence units, in contrast to general arms intelligence and radio intelligence, received the right to wear a green beret. But after the 1991 exercises of the year, which took place on the southern border of the Hungarian People's Republic, the right to wear the green beret was granted to intelligence officers of the combined-arms units.

Deep Intelligence Battalion

In 1959, the reconnaissance-landing battalion was re-formed and began to prepare according to a program that was linked to a new concept of application within the framework of allied commitments. The views of the Soviet military and their followers in the ranks of the Hungarian armed forces had a decisive influence on the development of the unit and the concept of its use. The battalion was named the 34 Reconnaissance Battalion. Since then, it forms the basis of the Hungarian paratroopers. In 1963, the battalion was relocated to Szolnok, where it remains to date. In 1990, the battalion was renamed in honor of the famous Hungarian military, Count Bercsényi László (1689 – 1778). As a reconnaissance battalion, the unit existed until the 2004 year.

Application

The exceptional quality of the training of the personnel of the intelligence units and the high degree of their combat readiness allowed them to become a reliable tool for the general staff of the Hungarian Defense Forces to solve tasks at the stage of the origin of the conflict, when there is no need to deploy units and formations of the Hungarian troops, as well as during international missions, of which the Hungarian military contingents began to participate not so long ago.

The personnel of the reconnaissance battalions distinguished themselves in international peacekeeping missions in Cyprus, the Sinai Peninsula, in Bosnia and Herzegovina, in Kosovo, as well as during military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Reorganization of intelligence units

In the middle of 2000's, the Hungarian defense forces underwent a reorganization and were reduced several times. The organization of military intelligence has also undergone significant changes. There are only two reconnaissance battalions left in the army: the 34 reconnaissance battalion Bercsényi László and the 25 reconnaissance battalion Bornemissza Gergely. But their structure and tasks were modified. For example, the 34 th reconnaissance battalion Bercsényi László was reorganized into the 34 th special operations battalion with the honorary title Bercsényi László.

And the Bornemissza Gergely 25 reconnaissance battalion was transformed into an intelligence unit with advanced tasks, technical and professional capabilities. Now, in addition to conducting tactical reconnaissance using armored reconnaissance vehicles and the ability to conduct in-depth reconnaissance, this military unit is able to organize and conduct agent and species reconnaissance, as well as perform the functions of the reconnaissance and EW support team, while performing all kinds of analysis of the initial capabilities of the Hungarian defense forces .

34 Special Operations Battalion

New appointment and old submission
In 2005, the Minister of Defense signed a document titled “Formation and Tasks of the 34 Battalion of Special Operations named after Laszlo Bersetsen”, governing the formation of the 34 Battalion of Special Operations. This document assigned the status of a regiment to a separate battalion, determined the new name and purpose of the unit and kept the honorary name. However, Lieutenant Colonel Laszlo Forray in his Ph.D. thesis points out the misinterpretation of the name and believes that it should be changed to the “Specialized 34 Battalion”, because its Hungarian definition is “Különleges Erok”, which means “special purpose”.

The military unit is under the direct command of the head of the operational management of the joint command of the Hungarian Defense Forces and is supplied through the 86 th avibazu helicopters in Szolnok. Such a relationship is not quite convenient. Despite the fact that the 86 Air Base assumes the solution of many administrative issues, the battalion still belongs to the air force, which complicates the application of this elite unit.

Tasks and mission
The new battalion was formed as a military unit capable of fully solving tasks in the course of asymmetric wars of the 21st century, relying on high professionalism and modern equipment and weapons. According to the Ministry of Defense, the actions of the new division should be characterized by an economical use of resources, a high degree of readiness for use and rapid deployment in a given area, the ability to operate by small modular teams, the ability to conduct the full range of special operations.
Thus, taking into account these characteristics, the battalion should perform the following tasks:

- response to sudden incidents requiring the use of military force;
- conducting special operations on its own or within the framework of the use of coalition forces;
- implementation of military tasks in the fight against terrorism;
- participation in peacekeeping operations carried out by the Hungarian defense forces;
- participation in rescue operations in peacetime and wartime.

Organization
Information about the organization of the battalion was provided to the public by its commander, Major Gabor Santana, at an official briefing.

The battalion headquarters has the same organization as the headquarters of the separate infantry battalion of the Hungarian Defense Forces, with the only difference being that it has structures responsible for organizing the withdrawal to the area of ​​forthcoming actions by parachute or using light diving equipment.

The battalion consists of two special operations companies whose activities are supported by combat support services and supply and support units. Modularity and flexibility are two aspects that determine the staff structure of the battalion. These two aspects are achieved through the small number of teams of special operations.

Each company consists of the management and staff of a company, as well as eight special operations teams.

Two teams in each company are designed for air output, so their personnel undergo a training program for making jumps using the HAHO technology (high altitude-high open) - parachuting from a great height and opening the dome at a high altitude for subsequent planning of the landing point. Four teams specialize in penetrating the area using ground vehicles. And two more teams are intended for the maritime method of withdrawing commands to the area of ​​the special operation. The personnel of these groups train both in making descents under water using light diving equipment and in parachuting.

Teams of second-class combat swimmers and their penetration capabilities are transferred to the battalion headquarters and support company.

The structure of the special operations team resembles the structure of the team "A" of the American "green berets". It consists of twelve military personnel having various military specialties and qualifications. The team leader is the captain. Deputy Commander - Warrant Officer. Operational Sergeant also has the title of Warrant Officer. Intelligence Sergeant - Class Sergeant 1. In addition, there are specialists in the unit (two in a team). These are two radio operators, two medics, two weapons specialists and two mine-explosive specialists.

Selection and preparation
The structure of the training is similar to the training course adopted by the Hungarian armed forces. Group training also consists of blocks that are defined by the training program. The whole program is divided into cycles consisting of several learning blocks.

Further training of the battalion is carried out with the help and support of the 55-th American mobile team, which conducts a large number of training sessions and training with the personnel of the battalion units. Training is conducted in the interests of performing both national and international tasks. National training activities include primarily the selection phase, basic training, regional training and compulsory additional training.

The international part of training includes training in various military schools and courses in the United States, as well as training in various interrelated special operations courses and participation in various seminars. Some training events take place in parallel at the national and international levels, for example, such as training courses for parachute jumping using HAHO / HALO technologists or training in advanced tactical aviation controllers (JTAC) training program.

The battalion training program consists of five separate units. The first block is the selection combined with the preparation. Candidates are tested for physical and psychological readiness, knowledge of tactics of action.

Basic training is reduced to tactical training, where special attention is paid to the methods and methods of special forces operations.

The third block is a training for action in the team. Education begins with working out the tactics of small groups. During her special attention is paid to the ability to perform tasks in urban environments. The next stage is devoted to various methods of infiltration and evacuation of teams. The last lesson is dedicated to special team training. At the same time, some candidates may study in Hungary, and others - in the framework of the relevant course of the US Army in the center and school of special combat operations of John F. Kennedy.

The fourth main unit consists of training for survival and topographical orientation. The survival unit consists of a number of activities in which, besides survival itself, the ability to evade captivity, methods of resistance in captivity and escaping from captivity are practiced. Classes on topography are held on the ground, where the deployment of units is planned.

The battalion soldiers who graduated from the 4 block program are fully prepared for service in the battalion and can be sent to perform special tasks.

In the course of training in the framework of the fifth block, the focus is on maintaining sustainable skills, as well as the acquisition of additional specialized knowledge.

Last deployment
The units of the 34 Battalion have been deployed several times in recent years. Until 2006, its units operated in Afghanistan, mainly as a light infantry company with a base in Kabul. In addition, the battalion teams were deployed in Iraq, where they were engaged in training the Iraqi security forces. Also, the battalion servicemen, together with other Hungarian special forces, formed the 4 of the Hungarian contingent in Afghanistan in 2008. At the same time, one of the teams was deployed in Kabul, where it provided security for the ISAF commanders who worked at the international airport. Since 2009, together with colleagues from the 25 / 88 battalion, the 34 battalion fighters formed the first replacement team for the Hungarian operational mentoring and communications team in Afghanistan. In the same year, the unit deployed its teams in the country to conduct special operations under the command of ISAF.

5 / 24 Bornemissza Gergely reconnaissance battalion

History battalion
The predecessor of this unit was the 2-th separate infantry battalion, which was reorganized into the reconnaissance battalion and renamed the 1-th armored reconnaissance battalion. The battalion initially moved from one garrison to another, and was later renamed the 83 th reconnaissance battalion. After further changes in location in 1963, the unit occupied the barracks in the city of Eger and was named the 24 reconnaissance battalion.

His main task for a long time remained unchanged - the maintenance of military intelligence on military equipment. In addition, the battalion units could conduct in-depth reconnaissance. In 2007, the battalion was again redeployed to the city of Debrecen, where it was subordinated to the 5 Infantry Brigade, in connection with which it was renamed again to the 5 / 24 reconnaissance battalion of the Bornemissza Gergely.

Battalion tasks
This unit is the only reconnaissance unit of the Hungarian Defense Forces, therefore its main task is to conduct reconnaissance in the interests of the national or coalition forces. As an element of the intelligence module, the battalion is able to create a working group of analysts, select intelligence units, as well as undercover and technical intelligence groups.

Organization
The organization of the battalion’s management and staff is generally similar to the organization of the headquarters of other battalions that are part of the Hungarian national defense forces.

But there are two differences. First, the battalion commander has two deputies, one of whom is a technical deputy, whose main task is to monitor the activities of the EW company.

The second feature is the presence of the intelligence analysis center, which is responsible for the initial processing of the information collected. The battalion staff includes two reconnaissance companies, an intelligence support company and an EW company. Intelligence companies primarily lead military intelligence and are equipped with armored personnel carriers, but at the same time they include deep reconnaissance platoons.

Selection and preparation
Battalion recruits receive comprehensive basic training at a special training center. At the same time, the personnel of the battalion must undergo specialized training. Specialized training mainly consists of intelligence tactics and small group tactics. The officer’s course lasts six weeks, while recruits undergo a twelve-week training. After passing the exam, candidates are considered ready for service in the battalion. Specialized training also includes the necessary additional skills, such as various methods of withdrawing teams to the area of ​​intelligence. The most important is the airborne method, and therefore the scouts are parachute training.

After a short period of expulsion from the state of the airborne platoon deep reconnaissance, the battalion again received them back. In 2008, the basic training of paratroopers was organized with the help of the 34 battalion. The course lasts three weeks and includes only jumping on uncontrolled domes. Also within the framework of specialized training, the 5 / 24 th reconnaissance battalion together with the 88 and 34 battalions conducts training for scuba divers.

Last deployment
The participation of the battalion in the international military operations of the Hungarian Defense Forces is quite noticeable. From 1997 to 2005, the battalion sent its units to the Balkans, where they participated in various international missions (IFOR, SFOR, KFOR and MFOR).

In 2002, the battalion sent a separate reconnaissance platoon to Macedonia as part of the FYROM mission, and in 2003, the battalion deployed one of the reconnaissance companies in Iraq as a security unit for the Hungarian contingent.

In 2004, another company as a unit of light infantry was sent to Afghanistan. In 2006, the battalion was deployed in Sarajevo.
In parallel with these missions, the battalion was responsible for the deployment of agent intelligence teams both in Afghanistan as part of the Hungarian contingent and in the Balkans as part of the KFOR Hungarian contingent.

Training centers and special programs

Peace Training Center
A peacekeeping training center was established in 2000 in the structure of the 1-nd light mixed regiment, and in 2004 it became separate. The main task of the center is to train Hungarian and international officials to carry out UN peacekeeping operations and manage the international course of military observers.

Since 2007, the center is responsible for organizing and managing the basic course of special operations. The training center is located in the same city as the 34, 25 / 88 and 86 battalions.

The center is located in the building of the former military school of the Ministry of Defense, so its training infrastructure is rather well developed. To conduct tactical exercises and trainings, the training center must coordinate with both the 86 base of helicopters and the 34 and 25 / 88 battalions. Since the center does not have its own subdivisions, for training purposes operating for the enemy, and also due to the lack of a sufficient number of special trainers and administrative personnel, specialized weapons and equipment, the main training activities are conducted jointly with the 34 and 25 / 88 battalions.

International qualification course for special purposes
The first special qualification course was held in 2008 year exclusively for Hungarian candidates, and the second, which began in February 2010, already had international status. Currently cadets are military personnel from Estonia, Slovakia and Hungary, while American and Hungarian instructors can serve as trainers.

The course program is divided into five stages. The first stage, which lasts 18 weeks, is the individual special training. The next stage lasts five weeks, during which the basic tactics and types of actions are worked out. Then, during the whole month, the cadets are trained to conduct special operations. The last stage lasts two months, during which collective actions are worked out. Graduates who have successfully passed the exams may be appointed to the post of team commander, engineer, communications attendant or weapon expert. The course language is English, and the established course standards correspond to the relevant parameters adopted in the NATO training structures.

The course includes a variety of programs and training sessions, necessary for the personnel of the team of special operations, which are worked out on special training fields and campuses. However, medical training is not part of the curriculum. In the course of teaching the course curriculum, a technique similar to that used in the special branding of the special forces of the United States Army at Fort Bragg is used.

The first group of candidates consists of commanders and deputy commanders of a group of special operations. The training focuses on tactical planning and various methods of command. In addition, they all must have certain knowledge and skills of any specialist who is part of his team. The second group consists of weapons specialists. They learn to use every kind of infantry weaponsin service with the Hungarian Defense Forces. The third group consists of engineers, and the last - of radio operators.

In special areas, classes are held separately, and in the course of conducting tactical field exercises or lessons on the tactics of small groups, the personnel are again reduced to complete special operations teams. The total number of students on the course is small. For example, in 2010, the course began with just 36 candidates.

Combined Forces Special Operations Task Force

The purpose of creating an ad hoc working group is to coordinate the efforts of the various headquarters sections and units to support and develop the capabilities of special operations of the Hungarian defense forces.

The working group is an independent structure within the command of the combined forces and is directly subordinate to the commander of the land forces of the combined defense forces of Hungary.

The tasks of the working group are distributed in four main areas.

The first is cooperation with NATO and the European Union. The working group is responsible for organizing the preparation of special operations and integrating it into the NATO training system, as well as preparing for participation in NATO and the European Union operations.

The second large group of tasks is personal records and personnel management of the 34 5th Special Operations Battalion. The working group is responsible for developing a suitable career model for each operator so that military service in the battalion is attractive and allows you to keep a staff of trained soldiers. The third group of tasks relates to operational planning. As part of it, the working group should develop a medium-term plan to improve the possibilities for conducting special operations, and constantly coordinate the conduct of special operations. The next group of tasks is the organization and planning of logistics and logistics. Here we are talking about the material and technical aspects of the deployment, employment and technical development of units of special operations forces. The last group of tasks associated with learning. The working group is responsible for developing the doctrine, curriculum, topics and content of the training sessions, as well as coordinating the activities of foreign and Hungarian mobile training groups involved in the preparation and training for special operations.
Author:
Originator:
http://www.bratishka.ru/
20 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. chaushevski
    chaushevski 19 June 2013 10: 29
    -8
    I’m already afraid of dangerous Hungarians), they never knew how to fight, they constantly raked from everyone
    and now sabaki has joined NATO
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 19 June 2013 13: 51
      +6
      Hungarians were unlucky with politicians, forever they had rulers who did not know how to wage war and choose allies, but like ordinary soldiers, they were always valued in Europe and were considered absolutely ruthless to the enemy.
      European armies (including the Russian pre-revolutionary) adopted much of the Hungarian cavalry at one time.
      Hungarians are a nation with a strong warlike spirit. If they had calculated, forward-looking rulers, half of Europe would now be "Hungary." But what they do not have is not.
      Z.Y. When there is no war, the Hungarians are a very cheerful and open nation. Very different from other Europeans. It is very easy to communicate with them and always respect someone else's point of view and do not impose their own.
      1. chaushevski
        chaushevski 19 June 2013 21: 55
        -2
        you are hungarian)))
    2. chaushevski
      chaushevski 19 June 2013 21: 55
      -2
      Hungarians minus)))
      1. albanech
        albanech 14 August 2013 16: 23
        +2
        It was not Hungarians who passed, but those who served there! And you a shame! am If you don’t know, then better keep quiet ... am And then anger and make people laugh!
  2. Alexey Prikazchikov
    Alexey Prikazchikov 19 June 2013 10: 38
    -7
    Hungarian Special Operations Forces


    Already funny ...
    1. chaushevski
      chaushevski 19 June 2013 21: 56
      -4
      I say Hungarian spies wound up here
  3. gosha1970
    gosha1970 19 June 2013 10: 44
    +2
    in the last photo, not an Mosin rifle for an hour?
    1. Alexey Prikazchikov
      Alexey Prikazchikov 19 June 2013 11: 21
      +2
      Yes svd and a mosquito.
  4. misham
    misham 19 June 2013 14: 06
    +3
    Hungarians are normal fighters, they always fought against us. NOT worse than the Fritz. Their equipment was always poor. And morale (45 years does not count) and training are always at their best. Neglecting them is not worth it. In addition, Hungarians and non-Europeans by blood, they are not local but alien peoples. They are the Finns of the Volga relatives and nationalities. Laughing is not necessary to form a small but efficient army, they can.
    1. Alexey Prikazchikov
      Alexey Prikazchikov 19 June 2013 17: 12
      +3
      Think about why the Hungarians at first didn’t even take this prisoner. The Germans even took the Soviets, but these ..... did not take? Yes, because these ahem ..... the only thing that can burn this village with children and women. But to fight it is not their part.
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 19 June 2013 18: 17
        0
        Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
        the only thing that can burn this village with children and women. But to fight it is not their part.

        They all can. They just perceive the civilian population of the enemy as opponents. And if somewhere the "civilian population" is partisan, then in this case the Hungarians will not stand on ceremony. They absolutely do not understand the European principles of "combatant-non-combatant". What is "pity" they really do not understand and reach the extreme "Asian" atrocities. And they will never apologize like Germans for that. Soviet Asians in Germany also behaved brutally with the subjugated population, and only cruel punishments from the command stopped Soviet Asians from excessive atrocities. That is why Germans and German women remember with horror not the Slavic Red Army men, but most often the "Mongols" - the Red Army men, who are more cold-blooded in the war with their blood - either their own or someone else's.
        For example, I am not at all sure that I personally would treat the vanquished in accordance with all sorts of conventions. This is a minus for me, but I really prefer to see a completely physically or mentally crushed opponent, and not play "gentleman's games". Moreover, you will have to play with sharpers, and the "hind mind" of the Turks, Finno-Ugric, Eastern Slavs is poorly developed. So it's better to impose your own rules of the war game.
        By the way, of all the German allies, it was the Hungarians who offered the fiercest resistance to the Soviet army. Then they staged the most fierce resistance to the Soviet occupation. And the most paradoxical is that it is the Hungarians who are distinguished by a calm attitude towards the USSR / Russia (compared to Poles, Czechs, Bulgarians and others). They do not blame Russia for something. War is war. The world is the world. After the fight, they do not wave their fists. But other European nations had to knock very hard on the dome at that time. Then they would be more cordial to us.
        Z.Y. The entry of Hungary against the USSR was caused by German cunning. It was they who stuffed the Hungarians with false intelligence that the USSR was allegedly concentrating troops against Hungary, and in the end arranged a provocation when unidentified aircraft staged a bombing of the Hungarian city. The Hungarians took this event as an attack by the USSR on their country. Most likely, it was a German-Romanian staging, but ordinary Hungarians considered themselves right and perceived the USSR as an aggressor.
        1. baltika-18
          baltika-18 19 June 2013 18: 40
          +3
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          All of them can. They simply perceive the civilian population of the enemy as opponents.

          Do you justify them? And if we perceived the civilian population of the same Hungary as the enemy and acted by the same methods?
          Would Hungary exist now? I have doubts about it. And sometimes I think maybe it really was necessary to deal with them the same way they do with us.
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 19 June 2013 21: 17
            0
            Quote: baltika-18
            Do you justify them? And if we perceived the civilian population of the same Hungary as the enemy and acted by the same methods?

            Oh, come on, build innocence from our army. You might think that we in the occupied territories did not destroy local settlements associated with local partisans. My uncle, an Afghan, told me how they hailed whole villages in Afghanistan after every trick from the locals (especially when our soldiers died).
            In addition, the Hungarians were convinced that they were responding to Soviet aggression and considered themselves right (the bombing of the city of Kosice - or the Germans imitated the Soviet attack or actually bombed ours, and possibly by mistake, confusing with the city of Eperies, which then belonged to Germany).
            And once again I recall that the Russian army during the time of Austria-Hungary already drowned Hungary in blood at the request of the Austrians. Although the Hungarians had nothing against Russia before.
            Put yourself in the place of the Hungarian of the forties, how could he perceive the state, which, in his opinion, SECOND attacked his country? Once under tsarism, the second time when the city of Kosice was bombed.
            In addition, the Hungarians tried to conduct their policies to the peak of Hitler, sometimes clearly anti-fascist. Prime Minister Teleki, when he realized that the Germans had fooled the Hungarians with their treaties and actually made them their military allies, shot himself in protest. The ruler of the country, Horthy, tried his best not to get involved in the war against the USSR, until which the Hungarians were on the drum. After the bombing of Kosice, Hungary declared war on the USSR. However, Prime Minister Bardosi (taking on the place of Teleki) was accused by Horthy of inability to defend the interests of Hungary before Germany and replaced by the anti-fascist Callai in the spring of 1942 (I recall that at that time the critical situation remained in the USSR). Kallai immediately began to pursue a policy against Germany, began to fight for Hungarian Jews, promised not to bring down Anglo-American aircraft, and began to incite Slovaks and others (as early as 1943) to turn weapons against the Germans. As a result, furious Germans occupied Hungary, put the head of Hungary, Horthy, under house arrest, and Prime Minister Kallai had to take refuge in the Turkish embassy. The Germans began to steer Hungary, but soon the stubborn Horthy was able to again put the anti-German Prime Minister Lakatos, who also began to put sticks in the wheels of the Germans. And when the Soviet army had already crossed the Hungarian border, it had already openly concluded a truce with the USSR. The Germans, in response, took the son of Horthy hostage and forced Horthy to give power to the pro-fascist Salashi.

            Regarding "what if they acted with the same methods?" I will answer - Hungary was already severely damaged, many cities were very thoroughly destroyed, many civilians died from Soviet shelling. The fact remains; losses of Hungary - 140 thousand soldiers and 280 thousand civilian Hungarians (excluding Jews). And they were killed not by the Germans and not by the Anglo-American allies, but as a result of the actions of the Soviet army. This is the official data recognized by the Soviet Union. So the blood of civilian Hungarians was shed much more than the blood of Soviet citizens at the hands of the Hungarian invaders. Another thing is that the Hungarians actually staged sometimes monstrous executions in the medieval spirit. I don’t want to think about how the Hungarians died in Hungary. Let's assume that they died simply from Soviet shells and stray bullets. And yet...
            1. baltika-18
              baltika-18 19 June 2013 21: 23
              +2
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              the loss of Hungary - 140 thousand soldiers and 280 thousand civilians

              Ours showed humanity. To remember, it was necessary to send three more times to the forefathers.
              1. Marek Rozny
                Marek Rozny 19 June 2013 23: 03
                -1
                Gyyy, then at first you wrote in the spirit that the Red Army did not offend peaceful Hungarians, now you expose almost 300000 dead / killed civilian Hungarians (and this figure is clearly many times higher than the possible number of Soviet citizens who died at the hands of the Hungarians) as an "act of humanity "?
                wahaha))))))) Logic is resting)))
                I wonder if you would immediately know the number of Hungarian civilian casualties, what would be your very first post here?

                Maybe at first before speaking, is it always useful to delve into the topic?
                1. baltika-18
                  baltika-18 19 June 2013 23: 23
                  -1
                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  Logic is resting

                  We didn’t start Marat. They got what they deserved. But my personal opinion: got little.
                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  if you immediately knew the number of Hungarian civilian casualties, what would be your very first post here?

                  Absolutely the same: received deservedly, but not enough.
                  1. Marek Rozny
                    Marek Rozny 20 June 2013 14: 25
                    0
                    Quote: baltika-18
                    not we started.

                    I advise you to see the materials on the bombing of the Hungarian (then) city of Kosice. From the Hungarian point of view, the USSR was the first to attack Hungary. Who actually bombed Kosice is unknown. The Soviet Union was never able to convincingly prove its innocence even after the war. Moreover, there is an assumption that we carried out the bombing, having mixed up with the neighboring city, which belonged to Germany. At the same time, it was likely that this was a German-Romanian staging, the USSR insisted on this version after the war.
                    Nevertheless, Hungary was the first to be attacked. And the Hungarians were outraged by the actions of the Soviet Union (they had no other assumptions). So in the USSR they came to repay with the same coin.
                    If you think that the USSR by default could not attack Hungary, then I remind you that we were the first to attack Poland, Finland, and Romania before that. And at the height of the war with the Germans, they also invaded Iran in August 1941. Soviet foreign policy was very cocky. Therefore, it is not surprising that the Romanians, Hungarians, Finns supported the Germans in the war.
                  2. The comment was deleted.
            2. The comment was deleted.
          2. chaushevski
            chaushevski 19 June 2013 22: 00
            -2
            that's the only normal person
        2. The comment was deleted.
    2. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 19 June 2013 17: 47
      -1
      Quote: misham
      always fought against us.

      If you look a little deeper into history, you can see that the Russian Empire was the first to invade them (on the side of Austria) in order to crush the Hungarian popular uprising.
      The Finno-Ugric peoples are really related to them (although they themselves believe that the nomads are closer to them, which is not without reason).
      According to their fighting spirit, they cannot even be compared with the South European nations, which are absolutely not adapted to war. But the German nations are stronger than them, because the Germans are more monolithic and subordinated. And the Hungarians were always organizationally weaker than their German neighbors, because the warlike spirit lost in the battle with German iron discipline. Yes, and the number of Hungarians is relatively small - there are only 14,5 million people in the world. Compared to Germans or Slavs, this is a very small nation. Fortunately for all Europeans)))
    3. chaushevski
      chaushevski 19 June 2013 21: 57
      -2
      my grandfather under Stalingrad knew their power as a result, all this trash raked in full
  5. nepopadun
    nepopadun 19 June 2013 15: 14
    -3
    As far as I know, Hungarians are Slovenes
  6. knn54
    knn54 19 June 2013 15: 27
    +2
    nepopadun: As far as I know, Hungarians are Slovenes.
    They themselves have not decided whether the Finno-Finns, or the Turks.
    misham: Hungarians are normal fighters, they always fought against us worse than the Fritz.
    And Honved atrocities during the Second World War - SS "resting".
    A familiar historian said that the Magyars didn’t EVEN even take the Turks to the Janissaries ...
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 19 June 2013 16: 36
      +2
      He communicated with the Hungarians many times, usually they consider themselves Türks. Although of course in modern Hungarians there is a Finno-Ugric admixture (significant) and Slavic (insignificant) and a bunch of other ethnic groups have been assimilated into this nation. The language is Finno-Ugric, but with a gigantic admixture of Turkic words in basic vocabulary. Officially, Hungarian politicians and historians also classify their people as Turkic peoples, and not Finno-Ugric.
      On the face - the Hungarians are very different, it is clear that they are the "cauldron of nations". My personal opinion is that although there were many ethnic Turks among the ancestors of modern Hungarians, they (Turks) were not in the overwhelming majority. But what is unambiguous is that the Turkic mentality "assimilated" the rest of the mentality.


      The atrocities of the Hungarians in any war are a well-known fact in Europe. They never spare either the military or the civilians, they stick like a tank, sweeping away everything in their path. Moreover, a Hungarian with the same cruelty will kill his native Hungarian, if he turns out to be an ideological enemy. Hungarians are practically devoid of ethnic nationalism. They calmly relate to foreigners, gentiles. But they have a well-developed "country nationalism".
      Hungarians, like most peoples with an Asian mentality (more precisely, "Turano-Altai", if I may say so - there are also Turkic steppe dwellers, Mongols, Japanese) mentality, without any problems switch from the "scumbag in war" mode to the "warm-hearted kind man in peace time "and back. After even a serious fight, the Hungarian can calmly be the first to reconcile the next day and consider that the conflict is completely settled and that one can sincerely be friends further. They move very quickly.
      All in all, a very good adequate good-natured nation. Only during the war always become turned on all over the head. I repeat once again, the whole history of Europeans Hungarians perceived exclusively as the most reckless and cruel warriors.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. baltika-18
        baltika-18 19 June 2013 22: 10
        +1
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        They never regret

        Quote: Marek Rozny
        neither military nor civilian

        Quote: Marek Rozny
        All in all, a very good adequate good-natured nation.

        What can I say to this, Marat? You have strange views, apparently praising the Hungarians, you are praising yourself
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        Hungarians, like most peoples with an Asian (more precisely "Turano-Altai", if I may say so - there are also Turkic steppe people, Mongols, Japanese) mentality
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 19 June 2013 23: 08
          +1
          Baltic, I know Hungarians well. I know their mentality. I know how the Hungarians differ from other peoples and who they look like. What do you know about Hungarians and Hungary, besides the Ikarus bus? I am more than sure that you know ABSOLUTELY nothing about this nation - neither about their culture, nor about their perception of the world, nor about their history. So why the hell to get into an argument?
          1. baltika-18
            baltika-18 19 June 2013 23: 30
            0
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            Baltic, I know Hungarians well. I know their mentality. I know how Hungarians differ from other peoples and who they look like.

            I know that in two world wars, the Hungarians fought against Russia, plus 1956, we don’t need such Hungarians, so their history doesn’t interest me at all.
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            So what the hell to get into an argument?

            And I like it when you start to get angry, trying to prove what is impossible to prove. hi
            1. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 20 June 2013 14: 55
              +1
              I say again that Russia under tsarism itself invaded them and killed the Hungarians. What kind of selective memory? I remember, I don’t remember ...
              Secondly, Hungary by 1914 was part of Austria-Hungary and ruled by the Austrians. The Austro-Hungarian war with Russia began after the Serbs killed the heir to the Austrian crown, and the Serbs openly relied on Russia. The Austrians declared war on Serbia, but Russia also decided to get into this war and announced mobilization, which eventually turned into an open war. It was not the Hungarians who climbed into the Russian wilds, but the Russian Empire decided to get into a foreign war in order to chop off a part of the Balkans, which it had already been trying to capture several wars.
              Check out the "Balkan Wars" before WWI. Russia initially tried to unleash the conflict against Austria-Hungary with the hands of the Orthodox Balkans. True, they, in spite of Nicholas II, flooded not on the Austrians and Hungarians, but on the Turks.
              In short, the fact that the Hungarians fought in WWII against Russia is to blame for Russia itself, which fomented the separatism of the South Slavic lands for the sake of their ambitions. And you again torn the moment out of history, without delving into its premises.

              2) The uprising of the Hungarians in 1956 is absolutely legal right of the Hungarians. This is their country and we were invaders there. Just as our partisans had every right to kill Hungarian soldiers in the 40s, so the Hungarians had every right to start fighting against the Soviet troops. What claims can be against the Hungarians? They fought for their country, and not against the USSR.

              3)
              Quote: baltika-18
              And I like it when you start to get angry, trying to prove what is impossible to prove.

              What exactly is "impossible to prove" ??? Why this nonsensical phrase?
  7. misham
    misham 19 June 2013 17: 48
    -2
    The particular cruelty of the Hungarians is just a myth. Do not rush to minus. In that war everyone distinguished themselves both the SS and the Wehrmacht and the Hungarians and the Orthodox Romanians and the Finnish Democrats and our soldiers. Cut off ears, gouged eyes, brutally murdered women and children, it was all. Soldiers often ride the roof of everything that happens. How can a normal person rape and kill a pregnant woman. In war this happens whether it is Bosnia, Vietnam, Chechnya or the civil war in Lebanon. In a normal war with a front line with regular units in uniform, rather than pajamas, such cases are relatively rare. In a guerrilla war without rules, this is more common.

    The Hungarians were often entrusted with operations against partisans and guarding the rear, so they took out all the malice on our civilians. Partisan war is cruel and merciless. Hence the myth that the Hungarians are worse than the SS-Soviets.
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 19 June 2013 18: 26
      -1
      In principle, I agree. For 10 years, the Soviet army in Afghanistan sent about 1 million Afghans to the next world (at the same time, we lost 15 thousand killed). Ours didn’t seem to have distinguished themselves by cutting off their heads and genitals, but just that - the villages bombed without pity, not considering the civilians there or the Mujahideen. Especially when the local population really guerrilla against our troops.
  8. knn54
    knn54 19 June 2013 18: 15
    +3
    Mikhail. I lived for a long time in the Vinnitsa region. People who survived the Germans, Romanians and Hungarians, less than 20 years after the end of the Second World War, shuddered at the memory of the latter. I heard about them and in Voronezh, I recommend reading about the "exploits" of the Magyars. even an order was issued - not to take Hungarian soldiers prisoner ...
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 19 June 2013 18: 32
      +2
      The war crimes documents of the Hungarian occupation forces are truly astounding.
      In addition, during the WWII, Hungarians brutally treated the local population not only in the USSR, but also in Yugoslavia.
    2. misham
      misham 20 June 2013 10: 01
      0
      I do not say that Hungarians are angels. The Fritzes were most often entrusted with dirty work. Operations against partisans. Therefore, the horror from the Magyar punishers was imprinted in the people's memory.
      Well, to whom the Fritz could still entrust such actions. The Hungarians had quite combat-ready and trained units, albeit with the worst armament but with high fighting spirit. not to distract from the front for the partisans of the Waffen SS and army. Allies and collaborators remain.
      Fina is far away and the Silenk itself is not enough
      Romanian warriors useless
      Slovaks, too (still run to the partisans)
      Bulgarians (we couldn’t fight with ours in principle. Unless the occupation service in Greece and Yugoslavia.
      The Baltic states are yes. But there were no more organizational structures than separate battalions
      our policemen (Ukrainians, Belarusians, Russians) are also not good. For many reasons.

      We have the rest in Hungary. The best punishers - pacifiers
  9. albanech
    albanech 14 August 2013 16: 47
    0
    Quote: misham
    I do not say that Hungarians are angels. The Fritzes were most often entrusted with dirty work. Operations against partisans. Therefore, the horror from the Magyar punishers was imprinted in the people's memory.
    Well, to whom the Fritz could still entrust such actions. The Hungarians had quite combat-ready and trained units, albeit with the worst armament but with high fighting spirit. not to distract from the front for the partisans of the Waffen SS and army. Allies and collaborators remain.
    Fina is far away and the Silenk itself is not enough
    Romanian warriors useless
    Slovaks, too (still run to the partisans)
    Bulgarians (we couldn’t fight with ours in principle. Unless the occupation service in Greece and Yugoslavia.
    The Baltic states are yes. But there were no more organizational structures than separate battalions
    our policemen (Ukrainians, Belarusians, Russians) are also not good. For many reasons.

    We have the rest in Hungary. The best punishers - pacifiers


    One cannot but agree that during the WWII and other warriors of the Hungarians - Magyars showed themselves to be very cruel. I want to say that the cartridges for the Hungarians were marked with the letter "M". Yes, it was a terrible war! I lived and served in the Hungarian People's Republic and I know that people are different everywhere! There are good and bad people as everywhere!