Military Review

Demonstration of the Su-35C Chinese delegation

105



5 June 2013 of the year at the Kubinka airfield near Moscow by the Chinese military delegation that arrived in Russia was demonstrated on the ground and in the air by the Su-35С fighter. The Su-35С aircraft with the 07 Red tail number, the seventh production vehicle built under the 2009 contract of the Russian Air Force of the year, was demonstrated during the flight. The fighter was transferred to the Russian Air Force 28 December 2012 of the year and is part of the 929 State Flight Test Center (GLITS) in Akhtubinsk. In May, a flight from Akhtubinsk flew over to the airfield of the Open Society “Flight Research Institute named after MM Gromov” in Zhukovsky near Moscow, where it is being prepared for participation in the June air show in Le Bourget (France).

Recall that the Su-35 fighter of the “third iteration” (T-10BM program) was originally created with an eye primarily on the Chinese market, and only in 2009 the management of the Sukhoi Corporation managed to achieve a contract for the supply of 48 of these Russian Air Force aircraft Su-35S. At the same time, lengthy work continued on promoting the Su-35 in the PRC. In 2007, the Chinese side began working on issues regarding the upcoming possible supply of at least 48 aircraft for the PLA air force. At a regular meeting of the Russian-Chinese mixed intergovernmental commission on military-technical cooperation in Beijing in November 2010, a preliminary agreement was reached on China acquiring 48 of these aircraft. And at the next 17th meeting of this commission in Beijing on November 20-21, 2012, a protocol was signed regarding the purchase by the PRC of 24 Su-35 fighters. On January 22, 2013, the "Agreement between the Government of the Russian Federation and the Government of the People's Republic of China on the further development of military-technical cooperation in the field of combat aviation", the central part of which was the agreement on the acquisition by the PRC of 24 Su-35 aircraft, and which opened the way directly to contract negotiations. The start of the supply of aircraft to the PRC is expected after 2015.
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105 comments
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  1. Orel
    Orel 8 June 2013 06: 59 New
    24
    The Chinese are jubilant and ready to buy 5 pieces so that in a year they can assemble a new Chinese J-13C fighter.
    1. Avenger711
      Avenger711 8 June 2013 15: 02 New
      +1
      Nobody will sell them without money in advance, and then you don’t want to, so don’t take it.
    2. T-100
      T-100 8 June 2013 18: 00 New
      0
      We still haven’t really done Pak Fa (T-50), we haven’t let them into the series, and we have already agreed with the Indians to sell them something like that. I think it’s worth selling when you have this stuff, but not that the plane is still in the project. and already place orders for it ...
      1. Anton Russian
        Anton Russian 8 June 2013 22: 46 New
        +1
        Is it okay that Indians are also pushing money into a pack? This is a common project. And it will be bought by both Russia and India.
  2. Dmitry 2246
    Dmitry 2246 8 June 2013 07: 00 New
    +5
    China remains the main military technical market.
    And they have no one to rely on in the confrontation against Japan and the states.
    1. VAF
      VAF 8 June 2013 14: 28 New
      +5
      Quote: Dmitry 2246
      and states.


      lol .... belay ??

      The USS Shiloh (CG 67) Ticonderoga class cruiser of the U.S. Navy, as part of a mutual military exchange program, arrived at the Zhangzian naval base (China, where the PLA’s Eastern Fleet headquarters are located). bully

      A cruiser with a crew of 400 people is part of the naval group 70 of the forward-based US Navy (Navy Yokosuka, Japan). bully



      The schedule of the visit, in particular, includes visits to the city by the crew of the cruiser, visits from ship to ship.
      The cruiser commander will meet with Vice Mayor Zhenztsyan and representatives of the PLA Navy.
      “I know that each of our sailors is looking forward to getting to know China. This is a great chance for us to show the hosts the best ship and crew of the US Navy, ”said cruiser commander Captain James T. Jones. laughing



      The ship was greeted by a missile destroyer Type 052C Navy PLA (the name of the destroyer is not named in the translated sources) request

      1. Avenger711
        Avenger711 8 June 2013 15: 03 New
        -7
        Yes, friends forever. Vaf is not only in helicopters does not understand.
        1. VAF
          VAF 8 June 2013 15: 20 New
          +7
          Quote: Avenger711
          Vaf is not only in helicopters does not understand.


          You’re like me .. "lift ... pricked" wassat

        2. Botanologist
          Botanologist 8 June 2013 16: 00 New
          +5
          Quote: Avenger711
          Vaf is not only in helicopters does not understand.


          Well, if you are such a specialist in aircraft, then share your sacred knowledge lol
          Only I have the impression that you are about 16 years old and, besides throwing a finger at the schoolyard, you have no talents.
          Maybe dispel doubts wassat
    2. Interface
      Interface 8 June 2013 17: 02 New
      +3
      They are not so weak as to rely on someone, they have the world's largest shipbuilding capacities and the economy is the “factory of the world."

      No, well, our generals have not yet come out of prostration after the New Year, if EVERYTHING IS DECIDED TO SELL THE CHINESE PLANE. We didn’t want to sell it, the Chinese were indignant, now they agreed, what is it? Our re---- whether or what? OR FOR MONEY BOUGHT?
      HOW CAN I SELL A PLANE, WHICH IS THE NEW OF OUR DEFENSE, AND ITSELF GETS TO WEAPON THE ARMED FORCES OF THE RF? What kind of, excuse me, believes that for export - it is more important to file than inside the country?

      It's a shame ... very a shame ... there is a feeling that there is up there, only boundless stupidity, the idiocy of anti-patriotic-minded, snickering generals and techies! There is no political will-- not all!
      1. AK
        AK 8 June 2013 23: 40 New
        0
        Quote: Interface
        The idiocy of anti-patriotic, snickering generals and techies!

        What kind of "anti-patriotism" are you talking about? To be against it, one must understand what patriotism as a whole is.
        Unfortunately, many current top managers have no idea about the meaning of this concept (or try to forget it, because it’s a shame), it has been supplanted in their minds by simple (binary) terms, which have become native terms from the filing of a "potential ally" : own, personal, profitable, rich, expensive, etc.
        Recently, there has been a tendency to return to the "national" rails, but somehow it is again small-town: there is movement in the "defense industry", but in other strategic areas (energy, education, medicine, etc.) as before " loot at the helm "(there are friends from these areas).
        I am glad that they began to straighten and finally realized that "it is not worse with us, but just differently," but I would like to have comprehensiveness, not point solutions, the country is big.
  3. Lech from ZATULINKI
    Lech from ZATULINKI 8 June 2013 07: 02 New
    14
    The Chinese look at this magnificent fighter and think to themselves HOW WOULD THE RUSSIAN ENGINE TECHNOLOGY FOR PRODUCTION OF ENGINES.
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 8 June 2013 08: 32 New
      +9
      They already suited 15 years ago, so what? Still can not finish their copy. Does not work.
      1. DmitriRazumov
        DmitriRazumov 8 June 2013 10: 22 New
        +7
        Quote: Wedmak
        They already suited 15 years ago, so what? Still can not finish their copy. Does not work.

        This is all true, but for the PRC, the lives of 10-15 pilots and the same number of machines are cheaper than 1 pilot and one car. Therefore, quantity replaces quality. It’s not difficult for them ...
        1. Avenger711
          Avenger711 8 June 2013 15: 04 New
          +2
          Your naivety is amazing.
      2. neri73-r
        neri73-r 8 June 2013 11: 20 New
        +1
        So is the S-300!
  4. borisjdin1957
    borisjdin1957 8 June 2013 07: 20 New
    +1
    from the Don.
    Also sorted out !!!
  5. uzer 13
    uzer 13 8 June 2013 07: 56 New
    +2
    Indeed, it was necessary to hide, away from sin. And if without laughter, then we would have to learn to conclude correctly drawn up contracts. We must also sell, and we must be able to do it. Military equipment is just a competitive product on the world market.
  6. Belo_biletnik
    Belo_biletnik 8 June 2013 08: 28 New
    +3
    "At the same time, long work continued on promoting the Su-35 in the PRC. In 2007, the Chinese side began to work on issues regarding the upcoming possible supply of at least 48 aircraft for the PLA air force. In November 2010, in Beijing at the next meeting of the Russian-Chinese mixed intergovernmental commission on "a preliminary agreement was reached on military-technical cooperation regarding the acquisition by China of 48 of these aircraft."

    I didn’t understand something, but we kind of squeezed this plane for the Chinese "comrades" so as not to copy it, and did not respond to all persistent requests to sell a couple of pieces. It turns out we’ll sell it anyway, we’ve been “promoting” it all this time. Selling Sukhoi, like giving-up girls, you want to (sell, you need to cut the dough after all), and you’re afraid, if you don’t get married (take it and copy it).
    1. Avenger711
      Avenger711 8 June 2013 15: 07 New
      -5
      With deliveries of small lots of narrow-eyed, they have long been breaking off. And the ability of China to copy is greatly exaggerated, all Soviet cars there were produced under license. Because having a couple of samples and not having a clue about the production technology, and firmware from electronics is generally problematic to remove, you won’t copy nifig.
  7. alexdol
    alexdol 8 June 2013 08: 39 New
    +6
    But I just can’t understand something: why sell military equipment to China, and other potential opponents? !!! You can sell only when they themselves have something much BETTER! Today, we are far from the level that was in the USSR, we are not able to provide for ourselves, but are we going to arm the Chinese? I repeat once again - this is our potential adversary! The truth here is not to be surprised - after all, the RD180 engines were sold to the USA, and they are ENEMY for us! The aircraft designer Yakovlev in the book "Purpose of Life" has an episode when on the eve of the war the Soviet delegation was in Germany and they were shown the production of aircraft! Only then did he realize that the Germans wanted to intimidate us with this - after all, the technologies were hiding and there were other developments!
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 8 June 2013 08: 43 New
      +5
      Sell ​​with understated features. And even recycled cars. And the money from the sale and maintenance will allow us to equip our army with new machines. And who is the enemy for us ... well, so far only theoretical. From a military point of view, as long as we have nuclear weapons, no one will snoop around with our troops - the "prayers" of the United States, they are afraid of Russians. And everyone has already seen the evil Russians, although something has begun to forget about the consequences.
      1. Airman
        Airman 8 June 2013 10: 08 New
        +6
        Quote: Wedmak
        Sell ​​with understated features. And even recycled cars.


        How do you imagine it? They don’t put a pair of blades in the engine so that they spin more slowly? Do you really think the Chinese are fools? They won’t buy bullshit, they can only sell bullshit as air defense systems to Kyrgyzstan. By selling them, we ourselves will reduce the export market, because Chinese clones will sell cheaper.
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 8 June 2013 10: 18 New
          +5
          How do you imagine it? They don’t put a pair of blades in the engine so that they spin more slowly?

          A variant of the engine with reduced traction, limited avionics functions, limiting the range of weapons used, finally replacing devices with local counterparts.
          The Chinese have already copied the engine, only now its performance characteristics are almost half as low. So they buy them assembled from us, they can’t restore the manufacturing technology.
          Selling them, we ourselves are reducing the export market, because Chinese clones will sell cheaper.

          Cheaper will always be. But this does not mean better and with higher performance characteristics. Let them sell, not everyone has money for expensive weapons.
          1. Airman
            Airman 8 June 2013 20: 04 New
            +2
            Quote: Wedmak
            How do you imagine it? They don’t put a pair of blades in the engine so that they spin more slowly?

            A variant of the engine with reduced traction, limited avionics functions, limiting the range of weapons used, finally replacing devices with local counterparts.
            The Chinese have already copied the engine, only now its performance characteristics are almost half as low. So they buy them assembled from us, they can’t restore the manufacturing technology.
            Selling them, we ourselves are reducing the export market, because Chinese clones will sell cheaper.

            Cheaper will always be. But this does not mean better and with higher performance characteristics. Let them sell, not everyone has money for expensive weapons.


            Avaricious pays twice-the lives of pilots and the irreparable loss of equipment.
        2. Avenger711
          Avenger711 8 June 2013 15: 09 New
          -6
          The Chinese have already bought bullshit in the face of the Su-30MKK, which has a much more primitive avionics than the Su-30MKI.
          1. VAF
            VAF 8 June 2013 17: 04 New
            +6
            Quote: Avenger711
            The Chinese have already bought bullshit in the face of the Su-30MKK,


            And we only a couple of years ago, "got this, as you say, bullshit" in the form of 4 pieces and that, only because the Chinese refused lol

            And before that, only the old P, PD, C



            Well, a little bit CM3 (again thanks to the Chinese)
            at least there is something new !!! fellow



            Quote: Avenger711
            than the Su-30MKI.


            And these, solid 2, and so far .. on trials recourse This year, thank God 10-12 more pieces Irkut will do! Only he still, the Su-30SM, to the level of the MKI, or rather the MKA .. far away .. will be, bye ...! recourse bully
            1. Avenger711
              Avenger711 8 June 2013 17: 26 New
              -1
              Apparently it was necessary to throw out these hulls, and not to do the SM3, along with those 4 Su-30s. Thanks to the Chinese, we really have KNAAPO, not ruins and wind in empty workshops. But what you want to say, I can’t understand at all. I won’t say about the exact level of the Su-30SM, although I don’t like this aircraft because of the presence of PGO, I admit that we don’t have any equivalent analogues of those or other stuck systems on the Su-30MKI and put what is. I admit that they are trite as well. Only from this, the Su-30MKK will not cease to be a simplified version, also who said that for 4 cars the same equipment is installed for themselves as in Chinese.
              1. VAF
                VAF 8 June 2013 17: 38 New
                +5
                Quote: Avenger711
                who also said that for 4 cars the same equipment costs for themselves as in Chinese.


                I'm telling you soldier we have NVE only on the Su-27SM3, but on the Su-27SM a simple "Sword" -N..with a bypass channel and that’s it!



                About Algerian SMT-ki you again ..... just to blurt out something? request
                After all, said go teach lessons! wassat

                I don’t know where you have KnAAPO, we have only KnAZ since January 1 wink
              2. VAF
                VAF 8 June 2013 18: 46 New
                +5
                Quote: Avenger711
                Apparently it was necessary to throw out these hulls, and not to do the SM3, along with those 4 Su-30s.


                How to throw it belay and fly and fight on what? Although to whom I explain this ... fool

                More polos .... in short, they already stand on the ground from the first batches of SM-ok, and you .... throw out, generally something fool

                1. Avenger711
                  Avenger711 8 June 2013 19: 40 New
                  -5
                  What do not you like? What of the remnants collected something there, stuffed to a minimum, no one would seriously upgrade these machines, too few of them, but not thrown away?
                  1. VAF
                    VAF 8 June 2013 19: 56 New
                    +6
                    Quote: Avenger711
                    What do not you like?


                    I don’t ... well, M. Zadornov is talking about you, such youth keyboards - .. "well, you damn ... stupid" wassat

                    You were about to throw it away .... or already ... stoned that you don’t know what you’re carrying fool

                    Quote: Avenger711
                    What of the remnants collected something there, stuffed to a minimum, no one would seriously upgrade these machines,


                    Losses in the war 08.08.08 you will study yourself ..or ... "there isn’t enough tyma" fool



                    In general, this is the "last" answer to me. There is already no more strength and patience ... how you are talking with "concrete" ... or with a log! wassat
                    1. Avenger711
                      Avenger711 8 June 2013 21: 14 New
                      -3
                      Did I offer to throw it away? You apparently do not distinguish sarcasm.
                      And where are the losses in the war 08.08.08? Want to upgrade these remnants to the fullest? Well, 400 cars should be graded, and not 4. Although I guess that at that time there was simply no standard look for the Su-30 for its air forces, at best it was only discussed.

                      Oh yes, the only mention of problems with the gun at the Ka-52 in the entire Internet leads to your recent posts. Although about the surge in the same Mi-28 knew all of Russia.
                      1. VAF
                        VAF 8 June 2013 22: 58 New
                        +4
                        Quote: Avenger711
                        Although I guess that at that time there was simply no standard shape for the Su-30 for its Air Force, at best it was only discussed.


                        He promised that this is the last time I’m talking to you, but since the respected Ustin is silent (most likely busy), I’ll have to ... once again .. "to drive the Internet with a face-tag" wassat

                        So .. "you are our quick-witted" .....photo of the cabin Su-30(former Su-27PU),2004 photo of the year!!!

                        [img] http://paralay.iboards.ru/download/file.php?id=15829&mode=view [/ img]


                        Onboard 597 - Su-30, "Korzhuyevskaya" modernization.
                        It was developed, made and "punched" by Irkut along with Russian Avionics OJSC.

                        The Irkutsk Su-30KN board 302 was chosen as a demonstrator, then the Su-30 board 597 was further developed - this is a machine from the PIC LII, which was used by A. Kvochur as a "traveling" spark for shows at exhibitions.

                        Then, the finalization of two more sides from Savasleyka began, but the Air Force had already refused this option by that time, so they were returned to their original state.

                        Actually, this option was implemented on several machines of the Su-27UBM1 and Su-27UBM2 type in Belarus and Kazakhstan.
                      2. VAF
                        VAF 8 June 2013 23: 19 New
                        +3
                        Quote: vaf
                        photo of the cabin of the Su-30 (former Su-27PU), photo of 2004 !!!


                        I took the photo from your beloved parall, so that ... there were no "conversations" wassat

                        Cabin Su-30 onboard 597



                        Su-30KN onboard 302 year 2000 (!!!)



                        year 2002!

                      3. Deformator
                        Deformator 27 February 2014 01: 42 New
                        0
                        The first photo shows the front cabin of the Su-30MKI.
                    2. Botanologist
                      Botanologist 8 June 2013 23: 57 New
                      +4
                      Quote: vaf
                      I’ll have to ... once again .. "to transport the Internet with a face-tag"

                      Veteran, you’ll erase the whole face about the table troll. Well, or a table about face belay I don’t know what is stronger.
    2. Jurkovs
      Jurkovs 8 June 2013 18: 35 New
      0
      Clones are no longer interested in anyone. For example, Pakistan, tormented by the Chinese clones of the Su-27, is negotiating with us about the purchase of originals.
      1. VAF
        VAF 8 June 2013 18: 53 New
        +4
        Quote: Jurkovs
        For example, Pakistan, tormented by the Chinese clones of the Su-27, is in talks with us about the purchase of originals.


        Mixed up nothing wink or, as it’s fashionable to say on the site right now, maybe something is not right .. wassat
  8. VAF
    VAF 8 June 2013 14: 41 New
    +9
    Quote: Wedmak
    Sell ​​with understated features. And even recycled cars.


    Denis, my friend .... I'm sorry, but you’re carrying such nonsense that request

    Yes, such "stuffing" that goes for export only comes to us when there are failures (MiG-29CMT) or when "a rooster begins to peck in one place" (Su-30CM).
    Export is always, at least in aviation, the BEST!

    Quote: Wedmak
    And the money from the sale and maintenance will allow you to equip your army with new machines.


    Denis, my friend .... tie to read the "opus of the spruce Esaul" wink , but you remember how in a fairy tale .... "Ivanushka, don’t drink some water ... you’ll become a little kid" lol

    Well, then ... about their deliveries, the news, which for some reason is not published, but even they were going to give technologies there, and not just production belay

    Brazil began to lean in favor of buying an F / A-18 fighter, according to Reuters.

    During a meeting between Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff and US Vice President John Biden on May 31, 2013, the latter assured her that the US Congress would meet with Boeing regarding technology transfer under a future contract.
    This was reported to the agency by three official representatives. bully

    1. Avenger711
      Avenger711 8 June 2013 15: 22 New
      -4
      Vaf, with every second you carry more and more nonsense. The USSR drove for export all kinds of simplified scrap metal for thousands, the same T-72M with monolithic towers that are pierced by any cumulative, like oil. The Chinese Su-30MKK is just a very rogue version in comparison with the Indian Su-30MKI. The Indian T-90 is also pretty rogue, including the power of the gun and ammunition of the 80s.

      Now they put what the customer asks for, and he often does not have money, and they do not, if there is a ban on the export of technology. But there are such bans now. Although the relevance of many of the secrets is greatly exaggerated. The same Su-30MKIs have long had engines with a variable thrust vector, and the loss of equipment during the war is much more dependent on its quantity than on a small difference in performance characteristics. Just for reference, a 10% increase in performance characteristics leads to a 50% increase in value. And all the labor spent on manufacturing a complex system in a second can become a pile of burning debris.
      1. VAF
        VAF 8 June 2013 15: 38 New
        +7
        Quote: Avenger711
        Vaf, with every second you carry more and more nonsense.


        Well, once on you, then drove!

        Everyone thinks to the best of his ... inferiority!

        With tanks ... this is for Kars! He will tell you everything!

        It is clear that there are a lot of specialists in paralia, but at least use your “terms”!

        Nobody argues that MKI, MKM, MKA are more advanced versions than MKK, MKV, MK2V, etc.-there are planes for the rich, and there are planes for the poor.

        Then do you even read what you write yourself? This is what serial aircraft in our combat units are engines with UVT ?????
        This is when we got the FIRST Su-30SM and Su-30MK2 ?????
        Komiou are you trying to ride on the ears .. clown? wassat

        Even Hephaestus and that .. first stuck on the Algerian Su-24MK ..... go learn lessons .. in short!
        1. Kars
          Kars 8 June 2013 15: 50 New
          +4
          hi

          Quote: vaf
          With tanks ... this is for Kars! He will tell you everything!

          I’ve already identified it in a couple of months as an emergency.
          1. VAF
            VAF 8 June 2013 16: 02 New
            +7
            Quote: Kars
            I’ve already identified it in a couple of months as an emergency.


            Hi Andrew! drinks Yes, I can’t stand such ... "speyshels" that a plane, that a machine gun .. one hell, but ..specialist! wassat
            He writes, he himself does not know what at all, but ... it is necessary.

            Or maybe his Nick justifies .. "Avenger 711" recourse Although someone to avenge .. moreover, on the "clave"? wassat
            1. Avenger711
              Avenger711 8 June 2013 17: 34 New
              -4
              No, just a unit from your favorite RTS.
              But to interfere with some left-wing news is not for me.
          2. VAF
            VAF 8 June 2013 16: 44 New
            +7
            Quote: Kars
            With tanks ... this is for Kars!


            I went to an article about the Azerbaijani modification of the T-72nd, because the Israelis are modernizing, and they always have ... something new and necessary!

            I thought you’re lighting it up already, and there ... srach mom don’t cry .. the site has become, not a topic without sracha, then "osrach", then "karabakhsrach", then "pinosrach" ... men, let’s go without special policies topics or at least somehow to the topic of "pick up" in terms of technology, otherwise that’s all .. got it!
            Respectfully to all!
            1. Kars
              Kars 8 June 2013 16: 59 New
              +5
              I wanted to, I wanted to pee. But there our Caucasian comrades understand each other, Karabakh, etc. And the Jews again make a fool of the people to lead the campaign. It’s hard to prove directly
              1. VAF
                VAF 8 June 2013 17: 29 New
                +5
                Quote: Kars
                And Jews again make a fool of the campaign to fool the people. Although it’s hard to prove directly


                So I wanted you to .. "read", my own, so to speak, "broaden my horizons," well, and still it is cognitively drinks

                And why are you so for the Israelis? recourse At least Scorpio did .. a beautiful car good



                Yes, and the A-50EI is the same .. to the Indians, by the way with Falcon, and not with Bumblebee, and the Indians are very happy now they ordered two more and started doing in Taganrog bully

                1. Kars
                  Kars 8 June 2013 17: 48 New
                  +2
                  Quote: vaf
                  "read," your so-called "broaden your horizons"

                  There, in principle, the changes visible in the photo were discussed without me, nothing super-special, only the name was loud. Approximately the same they modernized the M60 of the Turkish army, then there was a ShKandal, and then everything became quiet, even the ends were cleaned up. I’m starting to think that it was only in my imagination. Well, besides, I can’t be objective, after all, the teeth were launched into our piece of the pie, a little annoying.
                  1. VAF
                    VAF 8 June 2013 18: 07 New
                    +6
                    Quote: Kars
                    Well, besides, I can’t be objective, after all, the teeth were launched into our piece of the pie, a little annoying.


                    Proverb remember wink "in the circle of friends, e ..... do not click" wassat so friends, and here .. sharks ... bite, swallow and ...
                    I have extensive experience in "communication" with UKRSPETSAVIAPROM "oh," UKROBORONSPETSEXPORT "..... hard, recourse Belarus is much easier good
                2. Pimply
                  Pimply 8 June 2013 19: 06 New
                  +6
                  By the way, some time ago Elbit launched an interesting universal cockpit for airplanes and helicopters.

                  http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/farnborough-elbit-reveals-cockpitng-av
                  ionics-concept-344583 /
                  1. VAF
                    VAF 8 June 2013 19: 19 New
                    +5
                    Quote: Pimply
                    By the way, some time ago Elbit launched an interesting universal cockpit for airplanes and helicopters.


                    Hi, Zhenya, well done! Well done ... take envy recourse

                    And our ...... only plans .. they plan one thing ... that’s what the Su-27SM should have looked like,



                    but it turned out ..... well, actually .. as always, because it's for yourself wassat
                    as they say ... look and feel the difference recourse

                  2. Pimply
                    Pimply 8 June 2013 20: 17 New
                    +1
                    I'm not special here, Serge. Explain the main differences
                  3. TSOOBER
                    TSOOBER 8 June 2013 20: 56 New
                    +3
                    VAF meant weapons, on the bottom photo uncontrollable! Conclusions do it yourself! request
                  4. Pimply
                    Pimply 8 June 2013 22: 06 New
                    +2
                    And then I noticed - but I was not sure. 8)
                  5. VAF
                    VAF 8 June 2013 22: 22 New
                    +1
                    Quote: TSOOBER
                    VAF meant weapons, on the bottom photo uncontrollable!


                    Igor, thanks buddy drinks ! Just supplement .. not only weapons, but also SUV! wink
                3. VAF
                  VAF 8 June 2013 22: 18 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Pimply
                  Explain the main differences


                  Zhenya, what photo doesn’t open? I specifically inserted a large one ... so that everything would be clear:
                  1. On the right pylon (under the OT) Sapsan hangs an analog of your Lightning, Domokles and Amerov’s Lantirn, and our Mercury is also under the left.
                  Rocket X-31, BRLS Irbis-E, well, and all sorts of "gadgets"
                  And it was almost ready for 2001!
                  And in the end ...... the second photo crying C-13 recourse
                4. Pimply
                  Pimply 8 June 2013 23: 24 New
                  +2
                  Yes, I already understood, Serge. Hmm, to put it mildly, the 21st century
                5. Deformator
                  Deformator 27 February 2014 01: 55 New
                  0
                  Not Mercury is suspended on the left. This is a training correctional aerial bomb KAB-500Kr-U.

                  Mercury is already a story:

            2. Botanologist
              Botanologist 9 June 2013 00: 04 New
              +1
              Quote: vaf
              look and feel the difference

              Zvizdets ... complete ... the next stage is to increase the caliber of the gun and make it the main weapon.
            3. Deformator
              Deformator 27 February 2014 01: 45 New
              0
              That is, what is in the second photo cannot bear what is in the first?
        2. Avenger711
          Avenger711 8 June 2013 22: 58 New
          -2
          Regarding the "scorpion", then put the monitors and draw something on them using signals from the sensors; this is a penny job. HUD already yes, the topic, but that the capabilities of the machine were really expanded this I somehow do not see. However, as I understand it, I understand that the serious development of the Su-25 is the Su-25T and Su-39, and modernization, that the Israeli one, as far as the SM, is garbage, but cheap. The level of the Su-39 will obviously cost a little less, if not more, of the new car.
          1. Botanologist
            Botanologist 9 June 2013 00: 13 New
            +1
            Quote: Avenger711
            put monitors and draw something on them according to signals from sensors, this is a penny


            What, the doctors were powerless?
            Such a bird is, capercaillie is called. He does not hear anything, he does not see anyone.
  • Avenger711
    Avenger711 8 June 2013 17: 17 New
    -3
    Alle garage, Algerian MiGs from the time when we still did not buy bundles of equipment from us.
  • Wedmak
    Wedmak 8 June 2013 18: 05 New
    +2
    Denis, my friend .... I'm sorry, but you’re carrying such nonsense that

    Denis, my friend .... tie to read the "opus of the spruce Esaul"

    Well, if this is not so, then I'm sorry. I do not understand anything in management. Sergey, you upset me once again. Well, I thought, even though everything is in the mind ... yeah ...
    1. VAF
      VAF 8 June 2013 18: 18 New
      +3
      Quote: Wedmak
      Sergey, you upset me once again. Well, I thought, even though everything is in the mind ... yeah ...


      Denis, don’t be upset, I won’t drinks

      hold ... to cheer up ... Art from Sukhoi ... here we are for sure .. for the first time! wink

      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 8 June 2013 18: 27 New
        +3
        Art from Sukhoi ... here we are for sure .. for the first time!

        Yes, where do we go to the American "enlightenment" machine. laughing
    2. VAF
      VAF 8 June 2013 18: 38 New
      +5
      Quote: Wedmak
      I do not understand anything in management.


      Denis, don’t be discouraged, in THEIR “management”, few normal people understand at all. Although they don’t understand, of course, but I can’t do anything ... no further explanation? wink

      Another example ... "good management" wassat

      On the evening of May 29, 2013, a passenger airliner Airbus A320-214, received by a Russian airline Aeroflot-Russian Airlines, arrived in Moscow's Sheremetyevo airport from Toulouse, France, carrying a stylized livery similar to the painting of Soviet 1960s Aeroflot airplanes - early 1970s.
      Airplane (serial number 5614, VP-BNT registration wassat , at the test stage he carried temporary French registration F-WWIF) has its own name "Dobrolet" (the name of the predecessor of "Aeroflot" in 1923-1932).
      The plane was painted in commemoration of the 90th anniversary of Aeroflot, which was celebrated on March 17 - March 17, 1923. The Russian joint-stock company Dobrolet was formed.



      This aircraft was the fifth of six new-built A320s ordered by Aeroflot under a contract with AWAS Irish leasing company, and made its first flight on April 18, 2013.

      It became the 51st A320 aircraft and the 87th aircraft of the A3 .. family in the Aeroflot fleet.
      The board "Dobrolet" will be used on domestic routes. belay bully

      Aw ... "uriapatriots" ... "The Russian aircraft industry is on the rise" .... "Russia is rising from its knees" .. well, etc. belay
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 8 June 2013 18: 41 New
        +1
        Another example ... "good management"

        Yeah, well done, that ... And our projects are either on the shelves or are ignored. Although the worse they are ... In general, the power of money has brought little good.
        1. VAF
          VAF 8 June 2013 19: 14 New
          +5
          Quote: Wedmak
          And our projects either lie on the shelves or are ignored.


          Rather .. ignored, because. Firstly, the rollbacks are dumb, and secondly ... I paid attention to registration wink so that all our "state inspectors" can go on .... well, actually .. the forest " wassat

          Here's another .characteristic and fresh example of "management", I mean not Bobik-777 in the foreground, but in the background .. already 2 Bobika-747-400 Carco, the owner of the Volga-Dnepr and ... more are planning, and OUR TOP all .. "it seems like they think ... just what .. about An-124-e!" crying

          And such examples and facts I can "throw" a wagon and several small carts crying

  • Jurkovs
    Jurkovs 8 June 2013 18: 33 New
    -1
    By the way, the Americans were unable to rip off the RD180 and are still forced to buy it.
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 8 June 2013 18: 35 New
      +3
      They could not, they considered it unprofitable. What, what, and they know how to count money.
    2. Airman
      Airman 8 June 2013 20: 26 New
      +2
      Quote: Jurkovs
      By the way, the Americans were unable to rip off the RD180 and are still forced to buy it.

      The test bench is too expensive, and they won’t launch into space without testing.
  • Pilat2009
    Pilat2009 8 June 2013 21: 19 New
    0
    Quote: alexdol
    Only then did he realize that the Germans wanted to intimidate us with this - after all, the technologies were hiding and there were other developments!

    There were no other developments at that time, all the most modern was shown and bought. The Germans needed our raw materials and in exchange for them they sold equipment. And read less Yakovlev, he is inclined to self-praise
    Quote: alexdol
    after all, the RD180 engines were sold to the USA, and they are ENEMY for us

    It would take 10 years and 10 billion dollars to repeat these US engines, as the designer said. They still haven’t repeated it, they decided what to buy cheaper. We loaded our plants and got money for R&D. Is it bad?
  • ruslan7608
    ruslan7608 8 June 2013 08: 39 New
    +2
    They will necessarily copy, and they do not care about contracts and forfeits. They bend their line and that's it.
  • Airman
    Airman 8 June 2013 08: 58 New
    +9
    The Su-35 was originally created with an eye on the Chinese market, at the same time continued to work hard to promote it ... Initially, 48, now 24, and will be delivered 10-12 - the remaining 150-200 will be clones. When we learn to trade - first 100% prepayment, and then the planes, so that there wouldn’t be a desire to refuse supplies, and the release of clones only with our permission, otherwise there will be penalties of 50% of the cost of each aircraft. and we are already arming China, the most probable adversary. In the USSR, the latest equipment was first supplied to its units, and only then to the Warsaw Pact. Greed at the sight of the greens.
    1. VAF
      VAF 8 June 2013 15: 04 New
      +4
      Quote: Povshnik
      These aircraft themselves practically do not, and we are already arming China, the most likely enemy. In the USSR, the latest equipment was first supplied to its units, and only then to the Warsaw Pact. Greed at the sight of the greens.


      Only +! drinks but I’ll add it on my own (to the thought of greed, because Super-duper is as it should be .. “beat off”, because there are so many “swells” in it that now it’s impossible to even “bury” it, it’s necessary to continue recourse

      Now, the article quote: “The Su-35S aircraft with tail number“ 07 red ”was demonstrated during the flight - the seventh production aircraft, built under the contract of the Russian Air Force in 2009. The fighter was handed over to the Russian Air Force on December 28, 2012 and is part of the 929th State Flight Test Center ( GLITS) in Akhtubinsk. In May, the board flew from Akhtubinsk to the airfield of OJSC Flight Research Institute named after M.M. Gromova "in Zhukovsky near Moscow", Not written. that not one 07th. and the whole 4th Su-35S fighter for testing SUV systems and weapons themselves, which they plan to finish by 2015, if everything goes according to plan!

      And now the news (and then again .. pass by) .....I warn you purely news, nothing more although if you know from what time the Su-35 aircraft is tested then ... it's worth considering recourse
      Well, a reminder to those forum users, I won’t specifically indicate, tea is not Esaul, whose .. "all moves are recorded" lolthat proved with foam at the mouth. that the Penguin doesn’t let anything in or drop it ...... get it and .. sign it! soldier

      On June 5, 2013, at the Edwards Air Force Base, US Air Force Lieutenant Colonel George "Boxer" Schwartz first launched the AIM-120C rocket from an F-35A aircraft.



      The separation, starting the engine and the departure of the rocket from the aircraft were successful and safe.
      After carrying out a series of such “tests,” they will switch to controlled launches; according to plans, they should pass by the end of this year.

      1. Meth
        Meth 8 June 2013 15: 16 New
        +1
        Serega, hi.
        Can you tell me when the inadequate administrator Smirnov will stop deleting my posts! wink
        1. VAF
          VAF 8 June 2013 15: 28 New
          +3
          Quote: Met
          hello.


          Zoro, my friend! How long have you been gone? fellow

          This is a question .. "out of salary," he himself is now on .. "bird" rights, because "The oilman Esaul" apparently took an excavator on lease, digs a hole for me, only the stupid one does not understand that the bird is an eagle and .. it’s a sinful land, do not sit down. but he’s “trying” ... a serpent ... he just mentioned it before, but now he’s “quoting” it in whole pages ... is preparing to release the second part of “Main VAF” wassat
          So you better to the moderators .. they are more in courses! drinks

          1. Meth
            Meth 8 June 2013 15: 34 New
            +1
            ATP for the answer! fellow
            You are at war with Esaul! laughing
            I was glad to see you on the resource, and moderators sometimes call in Skype in pairs! laughing
            Serge, you know, don’t give up, we will break through - THE VICTORY will be ours!
            1. VAF
              VAF 8 June 2013 16: 15 New
              +4
              Quote: Met
              You are at war with Esaul!


              And what to do .. have to wink we are peaceful people, but our armored train angry !

              And to defeat him ... it’s difficult ... it’s slippery ... how come, it’s not without reason that he graduated from the Donetsk political school, and even after them, Epishev, but he graduated and .. "merged", and now .... as a political prostitute, in short like Trotsky! wassat
              And the method .. "tricky" .. it will wait 3-5 days, and then once ... PUK ... and escaped .. into an ambush ... and writes and writes everything ... "writer .. damn it!" wassat

              Although he warned him .. not once ... but like peas against the wall lol

      2. Wedmak
        Wedmak 8 June 2013 18: 07 New
        +2
        Um, from the pylon or from the inner compartment? Not quite clear.
        1. VAF
          VAF 8 June 2013 18: 24 New
          +3
          Quote: Wedmak
          from the pylon or from the internal compartment? Not quite clear.


          Look again and take a closer look ... wink



          1. Comfortable pylons installed only TWO and they are busy.
          2. The flap of the inner compartment is open.
          3. The 120th missiles are planned to be used only from the abdomen, from the wing or RCC, KR and UAB soldier
          1. Wedmak
            Wedmak 8 June 2013 18: 32 New
            +2
            Well .. you never know.
            So there is progress. Well, the Americans have nowhere to go - either finish the 35th, or upgrade the 15th, 16th, 18th. And it seems the path is chosen.
            1. VAF
              VAF 8 June 2013 19: 30 New
              +3
              Quote: Wedmak
              So there is progress. Well, the Americans have nowhere to go - either finish the 35th, or upgrade the 15th, 16th, 18th. And it seems the path is chosen.


              But they modernize the old and “drive” it for export, which they leave for themselves fresh, well, they continue the new ... they simply amaze the pace, honestly! recourse

              Here's the continuation ... news-June 5, in addition to the first launch of AIM-120, another event took place in the F-35 program, a little more familiar, but at the same time a small anniversary.
              Two more F-35As were transferred to the Eglyn Joint Training Center. Thus, in training, counting together the air forces of the 58th squadron, KMP 501, and two English planes logically included in the latter, 25 "Lightning II" are based. recourse
              In the future, the center's fleet should be 59 boards. belay



              News also appeared about the pair of the first F-35Cs for training - their transfer to the VFA-101 naval training squadron will occur within the "coming weeks". what

              One of the new arrivals F-35A after landing.
              Number 10-5015 - this means AF-27.
              There is currently no way to identify a second car. bully

              1. Wedmak
                Wedmak 8 June 2013 19: 39 New
                +1
                the pace is amazing, honestly!

                And yet this is strange - the budget is being cut, a huge external debt, production is falling, another type of crisis, and the latest fighters are baking like buns. Where does the money come from ??? Fed prints and stupidly gives the Pentagon?
                1. Pimply
                  Pimply 8 June 2013 20: 20 New
                  +2
                  External debt, as a percentage of GDP, is not that big. They simply have gigantic GDP. And their economy is now growing
    2. Avenger711
      Avenger711 8 June 2013 15: 22 New
      +1
      Yes, so far to you ministers. You are definitely arming the country.
  • kavkaz8888
    kavkaz8888 8 June 2013 10: 25 New
    0
    Greed at the sight of kickbacks.
  • Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 8 June 2013 10: 27 New
    +2
    Reading such articles, I always care about the same question: are we stupid? fool If you look at all the developments of the Chinese "comrades", even the uninitiated understands: everyone was stripped of their Russian counterparts. from infantry fighting vehicles to space technology. And nothing changes! We suffer billions in losses. Is there really nothing to be done?
    1. Airman
      Airman 8 June 2013 10: 31 New
      +1
      Quote: Ivanovich47
      Reading such articles, I always care about the same question: are we stupid? fool If you look at all the developments of the Chinese "comrades", even the uninitiated understands: everyone was stripped of their Russian counterparts. from infantry fighting vehicles to space technology. And nothing changes! We suffer billions in losses. Is there really nothing to be done?


      We can not and do not want.
    2. Avenger711
      Avenger711 8 June 2013 15: 24 New
      0
      And if there weren’t any supplies of Su-27 to China, we wouldn’t have a Su-35 at all, just like the PAK FA, and KNAAPO would be in ruins.
      1. sashka
        sashka 8 June 2013 15: 54 New
        +1
        This is not EBN's fault. Moreover, it is not Putin’s merit. They pulled themselves out by the hair. Honor and Praise .. But this is not a reason to sell technology ...
        1. Avenger711
          Avenger711 8 June 2013 17: 28 New
          -2
          Yes Yes. Our people are self-organizing, and the authorities only interfere with it.
      2. cartridge
        cartridge 8 June 2013 21: 45 New
        -1
        Absolutely right. New weapons are being created today in order to have time to skim the cream, selling it to potential buyers in large quantities as much as possible. Profit is invested in the development and production of even more advanced designs.
        You are absolutely right, dear Avenger711: supplies of Su-27 allowed to preserve and develop Sukhoi concern, sales of T-90 gave a second life to Uralvagonzavod, the same can be said about Kurganmashzavod and deliveries of BMP-3 to Arabs ... It was created for Kuwaiti money in the mid-90s a gamut of missiles for the "Tornado". If I’m not mistaken, then the UAE paid for the creation of the “Shell”, with the Jordanian participation, the Hashim RPG family was created. In general, weapons are primarily products today, which provide the creation of an even more high-tech and desirable product on the market. Even if China tries to create something similar to the Su-35, it will still be catching up, because our designers at this time are working on weapons projects of the next generations.
  • kavkaz8888
    kavkaz8888 8 June 2013 10: 32 New
    -2
    But it’s interesting that there is such a gadget in these planes that we click on the special button and the plane itself returns to us on autopilot ?!
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 8 June 2013 11: 10 New
      -1
      Hardly. But there is certainly a gadget that will allow you to cut down important systems at the most inopportune moment. )))
      1. Alexander D.
        8 June 2013 15: 20 New
        +1
        Quote: Wedmak
        Hardly. But there is certainly a gadget that will allow you to cut down important systems at the most inopportune moment. )))

        Do you think the Chinese are so tight that they will not provide for such a gadget?
      2. Avenger711
        Avenger711 8 June 2013 15: 24 New
        -1
        This is technically almost impossible.
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 8 June 2013 18: 08 New
          +1
          Someone's impossible? Implementation options - a ton! Well, I’m not saying that it comes down to a stupid relay - on / off.
        2. Airman
          Airman 8 June 2013 20: 02 New
          +1
          Quote: Avenger711
          This is technically almost impossible.


          And why? Just at the right time at the command of one of the microcircuits in the engine, weapon or something else control system fails or blocks something, and the all-combat mission has not been completed.
          1. Avenger711
            Avenger711 8 June 2013 23: 04 New
            -1
            The microcircuit is physically difficult to reach. How are you going to file such a command against her? And often there’s a generally dumb chip, but a smart firmware, for which the raws will ask. Bookmarks by time, well, so I set the clock for 20 years ahead ...
            1. Wedmak
              Wedmak 9 June 2013 09: 14 New
              +1
              The microcircuit is physically difficult to reach.

              Why? This is the most tender part of any electronics. That is why they are protected from external influences by ceramic cases, EM screens and others.
              How are you going to file such a command against her?

              Why should I give a command? Here's an example of a figurative, invented right away, and quite easy to implement - the radar signal receiving chip (yes, yes, I know that there is a whole block, but it's figuratively) topologically (i.e. at the crystal level) tuned to some signal frequency , a signal of a certain shape, power, modulation, etc. While this signal does not exist, everything works, as soon as this signal is received, it burns out a couple of transistors in the microcircuit (I hope you will not argue that there are enough extra volts?) And that’s all ... the radar fails, the guidance breaks down, the plane lands unassembled .
              And often there’s a generally dumb chip, but a smart firmware, for which the raws will ask.

              You can put a bypass channel of a dozen elements into the most stupid chip, and open and study the topology of the finished chips - which is not an easy task.
              In my version above, smart firmware will not even guess about a trick.
              Bookmarks by time, well, so I set the clock for 20 years ahead ...

              This is difficult to implement because need an independent power source.
    2. kavkaz8888
      kavkaz8888 8 June 2013 21: 16 New
      +1
      What kind of hoopoe minus set? What is wrong when the plane was sold, and then he himself flew to us when the Chinese decided to fight? Why is it tense with sense of humor?
  • 0255
    0255 8 June 2013 11: 11 New
    +2
    The Su-35 took off for the first time in 1985, if the Russian bureaucrats were stealing less, then there would already be hundreds of Su-35 would be in service. Russian military enterprises sell equipment to China so that there is something to live on, while their native government does not finance them.
    You can recall the Yak-141 and MiG MFI, ruined in the 90s due to lack of money
  • Apollo
    Apollo 8 June 2013 11: 48 New
    11
    Good day to all hi

    quote-5 On June 2013, a Chinese military delegation arriving in Russia at the Kubinka airfield near Moscow was shown a Su-35С fighter on the ground and in the air.

    and here is SU-35С


    1. Avenger711
      Avenger711 8 June 2013 15: 30 New
      -3
      Which noob drew the Su-35S PGO?
      1. Avenger711
        Avenger711 8 June 2013 23: 05 New
        -3
        Vaf Minus. laughing
        1. VAF
          VAF 8 June 2013 23: 49 New
          +3
          Quote: Avenger711
          Vaf Minus


          You YES ... personally and with great pleasure! soldier
  • Alexey M
    Alexey M 8 June 2013 12: 14 New
    +6
    It’s not going to end in good. The Chinese will lick it; they will give it a drink. And then we will bite our elbows. And what kind of war are you talking about, what kind of Japan and the USA. China has one adversary Russia does not need anything else. There will be nothing to do about us, and thanks to such contracts, it is only a matter of time.
  • cartridge
    cartridge 8 June 2013 12: 42 New
    -3
    The main confrontation of the 35st century will be between the United States and China. If we hand over China a mattress, then after that we will not last long. And vice versa, if China holds out, it means an inevitable decline, or even the disappearance of US military-political pressure on Russia. As for airplanes, it’s better to let the Su fight the Americans with Chinese pilots on board than our pilots will be able to do.
    1. Airman
      Airman 8 June 2013 13: 14 New
      +4
      Quote: cartridge
      The main confrontation of the 35st century will be between the United States and China. If we hand over China a mattress, then after that we will not last long. And vice versa, if China holds out, it means an inevitable decline, or even the disappearance of US military-political pressure on Russia. As for airplanes, it’s better to let the Su fight the Americans with Chinese pilots on board than our pilots will be able to do.


      China will NEVER fight with the USA. Too big a difference in the strategic nuclear forces. And CB is not possible to apply - it’s too far a theater of operations, so they cannot crush the number of mattresses, and the United States has the most powerful Navy. And the resources and territory they need are nearby in the north. So we arm them on our own head. They lose 10-20 million as two fingers, all the more so since they already live in the Far East, 8-10 million, and this is 5 convoys and thousands of spies and saboteurs.
      1. sashka
        sashka 8 June 2013 15: 19 New
        +2
        Quote: Povshnik
        China will NEVER fight with the USA. Too big difference in strategic nuclear forces

        Do they need it? Need Siberia. Then agree and share. And we, like fools (drug addicts) addicted to (needles) pipes, are afraid to invest money in our economy. Suddenly steal. I do not understand..
      2. Avenger711
        Avenger711 8 June 2013 15: 35 New
        -5
        If the Chinese needed the north, they would have populated everything there 1000 years ago.
        1. sashka
          sashka 8 June 2013 15: 44 New
          +2
          Quote: Avenger711
          If the Chinese needed the north, they would have settled everything there 1000 years ago

          The level of needs has changed. Now everyone, under any pretext, needs Siberia.
          1. Avenger711
            Avenger711 8 June 2013 17: 29 New
            -3
            And what will you do with Siberia? Settled there 100 million Chinese, give each machine gun and declare them an occupying army. They do not go to their north.
        2. kavkaz8888
          kavkaz8888 8 June 2013 20: 21 New
          0
          The Slavic reckoning, which the king parsley had burnt, was called "from the creation of the world in a star temple" and meant a victory over the Dragon empire, i.e. over China. The war was so long and bloody that they even reset the count of years. So already tried.
          By the way, now in the yard 7521 is summer from SMZH, and if to the maximum, then 604387 is summer from Time of Three Suns.
          Who cares:
          http://paneravis.ru/obshestvo/515667/1/kalendari-bog-chisla-letoischislenie-slav
          en
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 8 June 2013 22: 09 New
            +1
            Ingling, as I understand it?
      3. ifolga
        ifolga 8 June 2013 20: 50 New
        0
        Talking about the multipolar world, Russia and China are natural allies in opposing the hegemony of the tan, and it is Russia with its liberals that is the weak link in this alliance. China has become a much bigger headache for AI, here is an example http://periscope2.ru/2013/03/14/7151/. Yes, China's strategic nuclear forces are much weaker than the US strategic nuclear forces, but there is such a thing as a trend and it is not in favor of ii. All of China’s current policy is precisely to avoid conflict with it, at least until 2020. China's GDP is based on the real production sector, and not on the printing of bucks and speculation in the banking sector, and only their "military weakness" makes them put up with the existing order of things and continue to trade for candy wrappers. So with Comrade Patron I completely agree. And they do not need resources and territories in the north, they would have to sort out their resources and territories. Of the unjustified military conflicts, China can only be blamed for the war with Vietnam, but this was revenge for Vietnam's interference in the affairs of Kampuchea. The United States “exploits” the spread of shit democracy several orders of magnitude more and alliance with them cannot be by definition.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 8 June 2013 22: 10 New
          +2
          China's GDP is based on cheap labor and exports. Look at the rate of decline of their economy.
      4. Mairos
        Mairos 8 June 2013 21: 10 New
        -1
        What are 8-10 million in the Far East? Wake up? Well, a million is possible, but what you write is nonsense, excuse me.
      5. cartridge
        cartridge 8 June 2013 21: 33 New
        -1
        I read your posts, and I am surprised at your incomprehensible figures on the number of migrants in Russia (in St. Petersburg you say up to 5 million, in Moscow - 10 million, in the Far East - 10 million). If you follow your logic, then in the rest of Russia there are also tens of millions of them? So?
        This is a police problem that can be resolved with political will. But with all due respect to Putin, his internal (including migration) policy is in full possession.
        Reading your panic posts, the Russian proverb involuntarily comes to mind: "The eyes of fear are great."
        Do not be afraid! 25 million migrants exist only in your imagination. Yes, there are a lot of them, but your numbers are just taken from the ceiling!
        But the interests of the Chinese are still not in Siberia. They extend towards its southern neighbors, where millions of huaqiao have actually settled over the centuries and where world trade routes and much cheaper resources than in Siberia lie.
        1. Russ69
          Russ69 8 June 2013 21: 48 New
          +2
          Quote: cartridge
          But the interests of the Chinese are still not in Siberia. They extend towards its southern neighbors, where millions of huaqiao have actually settled over the centuries and where world trade routes and much cheaper resources than in Siberia lie.

          Perhaps I agree, before climbing into Russia, China will try to resolve its territorial disputes with weaker neighbors. So to say, run in the army and try in practice.
  • sashka
    sashka 8 June 2013 15: 00 New
    0
    We are becoming similar to Ukraine. Sell ​​at least something to someone. Brazil has already been offered with all the giblets. They don’t take it. So the budget is really problematic. Where is the money Zin? How to fulfill "promises" without getting off an oil and gas needle?
    1. Alexander D.
      8 June 2013 15: 29 New
      +4
      Quote: Sasha
      We are becoming similar to Ukraine. Sell ​​at least something to someone. Brazil has already been offered with all the giblets. They don’t take it. So the budget is really problematic. Where is the money Zin? How to fulfill "promises" without getting off an oil and gas needle?

      Not so much alike. Ukraine is ready to cooperate with everyone - regardless of whether the country is in the CU or not. But the government of Russia does not understand at all: The Italians and the French are not in the CU, and moreover they are propagandized as potential opponents (they are members of NATO) - but they can buy and unfasten taxpayer money from them (that is, those present at this forum). In general, China can be considered a potential enemy in connection with their huge territorial ambitions - they can sell technologies and production lines for the production of Su-27, the very first to sell Su-35, although they themselves have a gulkin nose. But Ukraine, with which most joint projects in terms of military-technical cooperation is considered almost an evil empire, until it surrenders and joins the Customs Union - Ukraine must be crushed to the last, even at a loss.
      1. fedorovith
        fedorovith 8 June 2013 16: 47 New
        +2
        Nobody presses her, and the military-technical cooperation with her will be concrete after her final determination with the “chair”, then there will be cooperation of the type with Italians, French, or will absolutely switch to another “plane”.
      2. Airman
        Airman 8 June 2013 20: 21 New
        +2
        Quote: Alexander D.
        Quote: Sasha
        We are becoming similar to Ukraine. Sell ​​at least something to someone. Brazil has already been offered with all the giblets. They don’t take it. So the budget is really problematic. Where is the money Zin? How to fulfill "promises" without getting off an oil and gas needle?

        Not so much alike. Ukraine is ready to cooperate with everyone - regardless of whether the country is in the CU or not. But the government of Russia does not understand at all: The Italians and the French are not in the CU, and moreover they are propagandized as potential opponents (they are members of NATO) - but they can buy and unfasten taxpayer money from them (that is, those present at this forum). In general, China can be considered a potential enemy in connection with their huge territorial ambitions - they can sell technologies and production lines for the production of Su-27, the very first to sell Su-35, although they themselves have a gulkin nose. But Ukraine, with which most joint projects in terms of military-technical cooperation is considered almost an evil empire, until it surrenders and joins the Customs Union - Ukraine must be crushed to the last, even at a loss.


        And you forgot that due to the fact that you did not want to cooperate in the production of missiles in Dnepropetrovsk for Sharks, we FORCED to dispose of them - NO ROCKET.
        1. Alexander D.
          8 June 2013 23: 10 New
          +3
          Well, if the exit from the An-70 project is like revenge for the R-39 rocket, then it’s somehow silly. Russia needs this aircraft much more than Ukraine. And much more hard workers from the Russian Federation are involved in its production than from Ukraine.
          And as for the decision ... China is not a member of the CU, India is also not a member of the CSTO, Brazil is far from EurAsEC. But Putin is crushed by a toad precisely because of Ukraine. And as for no one is pushing Ukraine - as Zurabov said there, "you need to understand that in the world now there is such a thing as economic war."
      3. DmitriRazumov
        DmitriRazumov 9 June 2013 13: 36 New
        0
        Quote: Alexander D.
        the Talyans and the French are not in the vehicle, and moreover they are promoted as potential adversaries (they are members of NATO) - but they can buy and unfasten taxpayer money from them (that is, those present at this forum)

        Weapons purchased in these countries are not accepted for service. Rather, it is about studying specific developments in order to determine the performance characteristics of potential opponents and pulling their projects to the level if necessary. Similarly, sniper rifles are purchased in Austria, etc. But in order for the equipment to be adopted by the partner, it is necessary to fulfill a number of conditions, for example, disclose software codes and certify them, share know-how, etc. The acquisition of several dozen samples does not make the weather ...


        Quote: Alexander D.
        In general, China can be considered a potential enemy in connection with their huge territorial ambitions - they can sell technologies and production lines for the production of Su-27, the very first to sell Su-35, although they themselves have a gulkin nose.

        I do not think that the Russian Federation refuses to sell these fighters to Ukraine; rather, Ukraine has no interest or budgets for the purchase of these aircraft. And so there are joint projects to modernize the aviation fleet of Ukraine using Russian technologies.

        Quote: Alexander D.
        But Ukraine, with which most joint projects in terms of military-technical cooperation is considered almost an evil empire, until it surrenders and joins the Customs Union - Ukraine must be crushed to the last, even at a loss.

        Ukraine has not yet entered into any agreement with the Russian Federation at the state level (TS, CSTO, etc.), however, it wants the Russian Federation to purchase military equipment from it, for example, AN-70, which. must be adopted. Where is the guarantee that tomorrow Ukraine will not join the EU and the comrades from Brussels, as they usually like, will not dictate to her how Antonov should be released and to whom to sell them? In this case, we are talking about the security of the Russian Federation, so the approaches here are extremely tough and cautious.
    2. Avenger711
      Avenger711 8 June 2013 17: 32 New
      -1
      Damn, well, let's not sell anything at all. To buy too, but this is no longer at will, since there will be no currency. As long as there is an opportunity to get enough of something, you need to use it, and you don’t have to think that we’ll arm everyone on our own head, they will be armed without us, but only those who in case of war really will sit aside and laugh.
  • sergey158-29
    sergey158-29 8 June 2013 15: 50 New
    -2
    And as for me, let them sell, while they buy - all that they wanted, they had slammed for a long time and embodied in the J-20 and J-31, so - at least they would load the plants and pay a dime!
    1. sashka
      sashka 8 June 2013 16: 14 New
      +1
      Quote: sergey158-29
      And as for me, let them sell, while they buy - all that they wanted, they had slammed for a long time and embodied in the J-20 and J-31, so - at least they would load the plants and pay a dime!

      Whose factories and to whom denyuzhku? Technologies can’t be sold. Appearance does not mean manufacturing knowledge .. Indeed, in appearance you will not copy the microcircuit. And so here ...
      1. Avenger711
        Avenger711 8 June 2013 17: 32 New
        0
        What damn technology? We are not talking about technology.
      2. sergey158-29
        sergey158-29 8 June 2013 22: 28 New
        -2
        Listen buddy, if you don’t know, then the technology was sold for a long time on the Su-27SK which turned into the Chinese Shenyang J-11, so it's too late to drink Borjomi ... they explain to you that as long as there is demand for the Su-35, you have to push it in while the Chinese their J-20/31 are not stamped !!!

        For those who in the "tank" I repeat - the sale of the Su-35 will allow:
        - load Russian military factories
        - get money in the Russian treasury

        so it’s clear or even chew ...
        1. Avenger711
          Avenger711 8 June 2013 23: 10 New
          0
          The technology itself does not provide a scientific basis, since building a Su-27 is one thing, and understanding why it is like that is completely different. China, being a global factory, having factories for the production of which is only possible in our own developments, remains weak.
  • Konsmo
    Konsmo 8 June 2013 16: 44 New
    0
    I think ours are not stupid. It’s not worse than us on the forum. The equipment for China is glider and new engines. And Pentium processor with Lenovo monitors. From this row, let pi ... t what they want. The planer, like the Mercedes cars, they are stealing from the picture. The engines of FIG. Monocrystal blades only we, Amer, and the French blue do (as I heard from Discovery)
    And denyuzhki, then they are tutochki. Workers and engineers will receive an advance, salary, quarterly, progressive, a glass for the Chinese, brothers in mind.
    Russian only once na ... b can.
    Then you get the return line.
  • try
    try 8 June 2013 18: 06 New
    +1
    Quote: Konsmo

    And denyuzhki, then they are tutochki. Workers and engineers will receive an advance, salary, quarterly, progressive, a glass for the Chinese, brothers in mind.
    Russian only once na ... b can.
    Then you get the return line.


    it is visible in history. in the same city, but every time but with a new governor. and then those denyuzhki they will be in America. tea is not in rubles, the Chinese pay.
  • Diviz
    Diviz 8 June 2013 18: 19 New
    0
    Americans still have not created rd 180 and decided to buy it stupidly. I think the Chinese have no difference between su27 and su35 but in the end they get a bodice if they copy it.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 8 June 2013 19: 09 New
    +3
    Selling these aircraft to China is suicide.
    1. Airman
      Airman 8 June 2013 20: 37 New
      +3
      Quote: Pimply
      Selling these aircraft to China is suicide.


      Our pilots, crew, tankers, motorized infantry and a large number of civilians.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 8 June 2013 22: 06 New
        +1
        Exactly
    2. sergey158-29
      sergey158-29 8 June 2013 22: 34 New
      +1
      Suicide - this is the Chinese in the Far East to run, do not notice how you look and talk in Chinese ...