Demonstration of the Su-35C Chinese delegation

5 June 2013 of the year at the Kubinka airfield near Moscow by the Chinese military delegation that arrived in Russia was demonstrated on the ground and in the air by the Su-35С fighter. The Su-35С aircraft with the 07 Red tail number, the seventh production vehicle built under the 2009 contract of the Russian Air Force of the year, was demonstrated during the flight. The fighter was transferred to the Russian Air Force 28 December 2012 of the year and is part of the 929 State Flight Test Center (GLITS) in Akhtubinsk. In May, a flight from Akhtubinsk flew over to the airfield of the Open Society “Flight Research Institute named after MM Gromov” in Zhukovsky near Moscow, where it is being prepared for participation in the June air show in Le Bourget (France).

Recall that the Su-35 fighter of the “third iteration” (T-10BM program) was originally created with an eye primarily on the Chinese market, and only in 2009 the management of the Sukhoi Corporation managed to achieve a contract for the supply of 48 of these Russian Air Force aircraft Su-35S. At the same time, lengthy work continued on promoting the Su-35 in the PRC. In 2007, the Chinese side began working on issues regarding the upcoming possible supply of at least 48 aircraft for the PLA air force. At a regular meeting of the Russian-Chinese mixed intergovernmental commission on military-technical cooperation in Beijing in November 2010, a preliminary agreement was reached on China acquiring 48 of these aircraft. And at the next 17th meeting of this commission in Beijing on November 20-21, 2012, a protocol was signed regarding the purchase by the PRC of 24 Su-35 fighters. On January 22, 2013, the "Agreement between the Government of the Russian Federation and the Government of the People's Republic of China on the further development of military-technical cooperation in the field of combat aviation", the central part of which was the agreement on the acquisition by the PRC of 24 Su-35 aircraft, and which opened the way directly to contract negotiations. The start of the supply of aircraft to the PRC is expected after 2015.

Comments

[Orel]

The Chinese are jubilant and ready to buy 5 pieces so that in a year they can assemble a new Chinese J-13C fighter.

[Avenger711]

Nobody will sell them without money in advance, and then you don’t want to, so don’t take it.

[T-100]

We still haven’t really done Pak Fa (T-50), we haven’t let them into the series, and we have already agreed with the Indians to sell them something like that. I think it’s worth selling when you have this stuff, but not that the plane is still in the project. and already place orders for it ...

[Anton Russian]

Is it okay that Indians are also pushing money into a pack? This is a common project. And it will be bought by both Russia and India.

[Dmitry 2246]

China remains the main military technical market.
And they have no one to rely on in the confrontation against Japan and the states.

[VAF]

Quote: Dmitry 2246

and states.

... ??

The USS Shiloh (CG 67) Ticonderoga class cruiser of the U.S. Navy, as part of a mutual military exchange program, arrived at the Zhangzian naval base (China, where the PLA’s Eastern Fleet headquarters are located).

A cruiser with a crew of 400 people is part of the naval group 70 of the forward-based US Navy (Navy Yokosuka, Japan).

The schedule of the visit, in particular, includes visits to the city by the crew of the cruiser, visits from ship to ship.
The cruiser commander will meet with Vice Mayor Zhenztsyan and representatives of the PLA Navy.
“I know that each of our sailors is looking forward to getting to know China. This is a great chance for us to show the hosts the best ship and crew of the US Navy, ”said cruiser commander Captain James T. Jones.

The ship was greeted by a missile destroyer Type 052C Navy PLA (the name of the destroyer is not named in the translated sources)

[Avenger711]

Yes, friends forever. Vaf is not only in helicopters does not understand.

[VAF]

Quote: Avenger711

Vaf is not only in helicopters does not understand.

It's you me like .. "rise ... prick"

[Botanologist]

Quote: Avenger711

Vaf is not only in helicopters does not understand.

Well, if you are such a specialist in aircraft, then share your sacred knowledge
Only I have the impression that you are about 16 years old and you don’t have any talents besides “throwing a finger” in the schoolyard.
Maybe dispel doubts

[Interface]

They are not so weak as to rely on someone, they have the world's largest shipbuilding capacities and the economy "factory of the world."

No, well, our generals have not yet come out of prostration after the New Year, if EVERYTHING IS DECIDED TO SELL THE CHINESE PLANE. We didn’t want to sell it, the Chinese were indignant, now they agreed, what is it? Our re---- whether or what? OR FOR MONEY BOUGHT?
HOW CAN I SELL A PLANE, WHICH IS THE NEW OF OUR DEFENSE, AND ITSELF GETS TO WEAPON THE ARMED FORCES OF THE RF? What kind of, excuse me, believes that for export - it is more important to file than inside the country?

It's a shame ... very a shame ... there is a feeling that there is up there, only boundless stupidity, the idiocy of anti-patriotic-minded, snickering generals and techies! There is no political will-- not all!

[AK]

Quote: Interface

The idiocy of anti-patriotic, snickering generals and techies!

What "anti-patriotism" are you talking about? To be against it, one must understand what patriotism is in general.
Unfortunately, many current top managers have no idea of ​​the meaning of this concept (or try to forget it, because it is a shame), it is supplanted in their minds by simple (binary) terms, which have become familiar terms from the "potential ally" : your own, personal, profitable, rich, expensive, etc.
Recently, there has been a tendency to return to the "national" rails, but somehow it is again shtetl: there is movement in the defense industry, but in other strategic areas (energy, education, medicine, etc.) it is still " loot at the helm "(there are friends from the listed areas).
I am glad that they began to straighten things out and finally realized that "it is not worse here, but simply in a different way," but I would like complexity, not point solutions, the country is big.

[Lech from ZATULINKI]

The Chinese look at this magnificent fighter and think to themselves HOW WOULD THE RUSSIAN ENGINE TECHNOLOGY FOR PRODUCTION OF ENGINES.

[Wedmak]

They already suited 15 years ago, so what? Still can not finish their copy. Does not work.

[DmitriRazumov]

Quote: Wedmak

They already suited 15 years ago, so what? Still can not finish their copy. Does not work.

This is all true, but for the PRC, the lives of 10-15 pilots and the same number of machines are cheaper than 1 pilot and one car. Therefore, quantity replaces quality. It’s not difficult for them ...

[Avenger711]

Your naivety is amazing.

[neri73-r]

So is the S-300!

[borisjdin1957]

from the Don.
Also sorted out !!!

[Uzer 13.]

Indeed, it was necessary to hide, away from sin. And if without laughter, then we would have to learn to conclude correctly drawn up contracts. We must also sell, and we must be able to do it. Military equipment is just a competitive product on the world market.

[Belo_ticketnik]

"At the same time, the long-term work on the promotion of the Su-35 in the PRC continued. In 2007, the Chinese side began to study issues regarding the upcoming possible delivery of at least 48 aircraft for the PLA Air Force. In November 2010, in Beijing, at a regular meeting of the Russian-Chinese mixed intergovernmental commission on military-technical cooperation has reached a preliminary agreement on the acquisition of 48 of these aircraft by China. "

Something I did not understand, we sort of squeezed this plane for the Chinese "comrades" so as not to copy, and did not react to all the persistent requests to sell a couple of pieces. It turns out that we will sell it anyway, but we have been "promoting" it there all this time. The salesmen of "Sukhoi" are like girls for marriageable purposes and want to (sell, you have to cut the dough), and they are scared that they might not marry (take copies and throws).

[Avenger711]

With deliveries of small lots of narrow-eyed, they have long been breaking off. And the ability of China to copy is greatly exaggerated, all Soviet cars there were produced under license. Because having a couple of samples and not having a clue about the production technology, and firmware from electronics is generally problematic to remove, you won’t copy nifig.

[alexdol]

But I can't understand something: why sell military equipment to China, and to other potential opponents? !!! You can only sell when you yourself have something much BETTER! Today we are far from the level that was in the USSR, we are not able to provide for ourselves, but we undertake to arm the Chinese? I repeat once again - this is our potential enemy! True, there is no surprise here - after all, the RD180 engines were sold to the USA, and they are an ENEMY for us! The aircraft designer Yakovlev has an episode in his book "The Purpose of Life" when, on the eve of the war, the Soviet delegation was in Germany and they were shown the production of aircraft! Only later did he realize that the Germans wanted to intimidate us with this - after all, the technologies were hidden and there were other developments!

[Wedmak]

Sell ​​with understated characteristics. Or even recycled cars. And money from sales and maintenance will allow us to equip our army with new machines. And who is the enemy for us ... well, so far only theoretical. From a military point of view, as long as we have nuclear weapons, no one will come to us with the troops - the "prayers" of the United States, they are afraid of the Russians. And everyone has already seen the evil Russians, although he somehow began to forget about the consequences.

[Airman]

Quote: Wedmak

Sell ​​with understated features. And even recycled cars.

How do you imagine it? They don’t put a pair of blades in the engine so that they spin more slowly? Do you really think the Chinese are fools? They won’t buy bullshit, they can only sell bullshit as air defense systems to Kyrgyzstan. By selling them, we ourselves will reduce the export market, because Chinese clones will sell cheaper.

[Wedmak]

How do you imagine it? They don’t put a pair of blades in the engine so that they spin more slowly?

A variant of the engine with reduced traction, limited avionics functions, limiting the range of weapons used, finally replacing devices with local counterparts.
The Chinese have already copied the engine, only now its performance characteristics are almost half as low. So they buy them assembled from us, they can’t restore the manufacturing technology.

Selling them, we ourselves are reducing the export market, because Chinese clones will sell cheaper.

Cheaper will always be. But this does not mean better and with higher performance characteristics. Let them sell, not everyone has money for expensive weapons.

[Airman]

Quote: Wedmak

How do you imagine it? They don’t put a pair of blades in the engine so that they spin more slowly?

A variant of the engine with reduced traction, limited avionics functions, limiting the range of weapons used, finally replacing devices with local counterparts.
The Chinese have already copied the engine, only now its performance characteristics are almost half as low. So they buy them assembled from us, they can’t restore the manufacturing technology.

Selling them, we ourselves are reducing the export market, because Chinese clones will sell cheaper.

Cheaper will always be. But this does not mean better and with higher performance characteristics. Let them sell, not everyone has money for expensive weapons.

Avaricious pays twice-the lives of pilots and the irreparable loss of equipment.

[Avenger711]

The Chinese have already bought bullshit in the face of the Su-30MKK, which has a much more primitive avionics than the Su-30MKI.

[VAF]

Quote: Avenger711

The Chinese have already bought bullshit in the face of the Su-30MKK,

And only a couple of years ago we "got it, as you say, bullshit" in the form of 4 pieces and that, only due to the fact that the Chinese refused

And before that, only the old P, PD, C

Well, a little bit CM3 (again thanks to the Chinese)
at least there is something new !!!

Quote: Avenger711

than the Su-30MKI.

And these, solid 2, and so far .. on trials This year, thank God 10-12 more pieces Irkut will do! Only he still, the Su-30SM, to the level of the MKI, or rather the MKA .. far away .. will be, bye ...!

[Avenger711]

Apparently it was necessary to throw out these hulls, and not to do the SM3, along with those 4 Su-30s. Thanks to the Chinese, we really have KNAAPO, not ruins and wind in empty workshops. But what you want to say, I can’t understand at all. I won’t say about the exact level of the Su-30SM, although I don’t like this aircraft because of the presence of PGO, I admit that we don’t have any equivalent analogues of those or other stuck systems on the Su-30MKI and put what is. I admit that they are trite as well. Only from this, the Su-30MKK will not cease to be a simplified version, also who said that for 4 cars the same equipment is installed for themselves as in Chinese.

[VAF]

Quote: Avenger711

who also said that for 4 cars the same equipment costs for themselves as in Chinese.

I'm telling you we have NVE only on the Su-27SM3, and on the Su-27SM a simple "Sword" -N..with a bypass channel and that's it!

About Algerian SMT-ki you again ..... just to blurt out something?
After all, said go teach lessons!

I don’t know where you have KnAAPO, we have only KnAZ since January 1

[VAF]

Quote: Avenger711

Apparently it was necessary to throw out these hulls, and not to do the SM3, along with those 4 Su-30s.

How to throw it and fly and fight on what? Although to whom I explain this ...

More polos .... in short, they already stand on the ground from the first batches of SM-ok, and you .... throw out, generally something

[Avenger711]

What do not you like? What of the remnants collected something there, stuffed to a minimum, no one would seriously upgrade these machines, too few of them, but not thrown away?

[VAF]

Quote: Avenger711

What do not you like?

Not .. well, for sure M. Zadornov is talking about you, such youth keyboards - .. "well, you damn it ... stupid"

You were going to throw it away .... or already .. smoked that you don't know what you are "talking about"

Quote: Avenger711

What of the remnants collected something there, stuffed to a minimum, no one would seriously upgrade these machines,

Losses in the war 08.08.08 you will study it yourself .. or ... "there is not enough tyama"

In general, this is my "extreme" answer to you. I have no more strength and patience ... how you talk with "concrete" ... or with a log!

[Avenger711]

Did I offer to throw it away? You apparently do not distinguish sarcasm.
And where are the losses in the war 08.08.08? Want to upgrade these remnants to the fullest? Well, 400 cars should be graded, and not 4. Although I guess that at that time there was simply no standard look for the Su-30 for its air forces, at best it was only discussed.

Oh yes, the only mention of problems with the gun at the Ka-52 in the entire Internet leads to your recent posts. Although about the surge in the same Mi-28 knew all of Russia.

[VAF]

Quote: Avenger711

Although I guess that at that time there was simply no standard shape for the Su-30 for its Air Force, at best it was only discussed.

Here he promised that this is the "last" time I communicate with you, but since the respected Ustin is silent (most likely busy), then I will have to ... once again .. "tinker inetspashel with a face bo table"

So .. "you are our quick-witted" .....photo of the cabin Su-30(former Su-27PU),2004 photo of the year!!!

[img] http://paralay.iboards.ru/download/file.php?id=15829&mode=view [/ img]

Onboard 597 - Su-30, "Korzhuevskaya" modernization.
It was developed, made and "punched" by "Irkut" together with JSC "Russian Avionics".

The Irkutsk Su-30KN board 302 was chosen as the demonstrator, then the Su-30 board 597 was also finalized - this is a machine from the PIC LII, which was used by A. Kvochur as a "traveling" spark for displays at exhibitions.

Then, the finalization of two more sides from Savasleyka began, but the Air Force had already refused this option by that time, so they were returned to their original state.

Actually, this option was implemented on several machines of the Su-27UBM1 and Su-27UBM2 type in Belarus and Kazakhstan.

[VAF]

Quote: vaf

photo of the cabin of the Su-30 (former Su-27PU), photo of 2004 !!!

I took a photo from your beloved paralai, so that ... there would be no "conversations"

Cabin Su-30 onboard 597

Su-30KN onboard 302 year 2000 (!!!)

year 2002!

[Deformator]

The first photo shows the front cabin of the Su-30MKI.

[Botanologist]

Quote: vaf

I will have to ... once again .. "tinker inetspashela with a face bo table"

Veteran, you’ll erase the whole face about the table troll. Well, or a table about face I don’t know what is stronger.

[Jurkovs]

Clones are no longer interested in anyone. For example, Pakistan, tormented by the Chinese clones of the Su-27, is negotiating with us about the purchase of originals.

[VAF]

Quote: Jurkovs

For example, Pakistan, tormented by the Chinese clones of the Su-27, is in talks with us about the purchase of originals.

Mixed up nothing or, as it’s fashionable to say on the site right now, maybe something is not right ..

[VAF]

Quote: Wedmak

Sell ​​with understated features. And even recycled cars.

Denis, my friend .... I'm sorry, but you’re carrying such nonsense that

Yes, such "minced meat" that is exported comes to us only when there are abandoned ones (MiG-29SMT) or when "a cock in one place starts to peck" (Su-30SM).
Export is always, at least in aviation, the BEST!

Quote: Wedmak

And the money from the sale and maintenance will allow you to equip your army with new machines.

Denis, buddy .... start reading "the opuses of the unctuous Esaul" , and then you remember as in a fairy tale .... "Ivanushka, don't drink some water ... you will become a goat"

Well, then ... about their deliveries, the news, which for some reason is not published, but even they were going to give technologies there, and not just production

Brazil began to lean in favor of buying an F / A-18 fighter, according to Reuters.

During a meeting between Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff and US Vice President John Biden on May 31, 2013, the latter assured her that the US Congress would meet with Boeing regarding technology transfer under a future contract.
This was reported to the agency by three official representatives.

[Avenger711]

Vaf, with every second you carry more and more nonsense. The USSR drove for export all kinds of simplified scrap metal for thousands, the same T-72M with monolithic towers that are pierced by any cumulative, like oil. The Chinese Su-30MKK is just a very rogue version in comparison with the Indian Su-30MKI. The Indian T-90 is also pretty rogue, including the power of the gun and ammunition of the 80s.

Now they put what the customer asks for, and he often does not have money, and they do not, if there is a ban on the export of technology. But there are such bans now. Although the relevance of many of the secrets is greatly exaggerated. The same Su-30MKIs have long had engines with a variable thrust vector, and the loss of equipment during the war is much more dependent on its quantity than on a small difference in performance characteristics. Just for reference, a 10% increase in performance characteristics leads to a 50% increase in value. And all the labor spent on manufacturing a complex system in a second can become a pile of burning debris.

[VAF]

Quote: Avenger711

Vaf, with every second you carry more and more nonsense.

Well, once on you, then drove!

Everyone thinks to the best of his ... inferiority!

With tanks ... this is to Kars! He will tell you everything!

It is clear that there are many specialists on paralay, but at least use your own "terms"!

Nobody argues that MKI, MKM, MKA are more advanced versions than MKK, MKV, MK2V, etc.-there are planes for the rich, and there are planes for the poor.

Then do you even read what you write yourself? This is what serial aircraft in our combat units are engines with UVT ?????
This is when we got the FIRST Su-30SM and Su-30MK2 ?????
Komiou are you trying to ride on the ears .. clown?

Even Hephaestus and that .. first stuck on the Algerian Su-24MK ..... go learn lessons .. in short!

[Kars]

Quote: vaf

With tanks ... this is to Kars! He will tell you everything!

I’ve already identified it in a couple of months as an emergency.

[VAF]

Quote: Kars

I’ve already identified it in a couple of months as an emergency.

Hi Andrew! Yes, I hate such ... "specials", that the plane, that the machine gun ... one hell, but ... a specialist!
He writes, he himself does not know what at all, but ... it is necessary.

Or maybe his Nick justifies .. "Avenger711" Although who can take revenge .. even more on the "keyboard"?

[Avenger711]

No, just a unit from your favorite RTS.
But to interfere with some left-wing news is not for me.

[VAF]

Quote: Kars

With tanks .. this is to Kars!

I went to an article about the Azerbaijani modification of the T-72nd, because the Israelis are modernizing, and they always have ... something new and necessary!

You thought you were already covering it, but there ... srach mom do not worry .. the site has become, no topics without srach, then "osrach", then "karabakhsrach", then "pinosrach" ... let's men without politics in special themes or at least somehow to the topic of "raking" in terms of technology, otherwise that's all .. it's done!
Respectfully to all!

[Kars]

I wanted to, I wanted to pee. But there our Caucasian comrades understand each other, Karabakh, etc. And the Jews again make a fool of the people to lead the campaign. It’s hard to prove directly

[VAF]

Quote: Kars

And Jews again make a fool of the campaign to fool the people. Although it’s hard to prove directly

So I wanted you to .. "read", so to speak, "broaden your horizons" well, cognitively all the same

Why are you so for the Israelis? At least Scorpio did .. a beautiful car

Yes, and the A-50EI is the same .. to the Indians, by the way with Falcon, and not with Bumblebee, and the Indians are very happy now they ordered two more and started doing in Taganrog

[Kars]

Quote: vaf

"read", so to speak, "broaden your horizons"

There, in principle, the changes visible in the photo were discussed without me, nothing super-special, only the name was loud. Approximately the same they modernized the M60 of the Turkish army, then there was a ShKandal, and then everything became quiet, even the ends were cleaned up. I’m starting to think that it was only in my imagination. Well, besides, I can’t be objective, after all, the teeth were launched into our piece of the pie, a little annoying.

[VAF]

Quote: Kars

Well, besides, I can’t be objective, after all, the teeth were launched into our piece of the pie, a little annoying.

Proverb remember "with friends, f ..... don't click" so friends, and here .. sharks ... bite, swallow and ...
I have extensive experience of "communication" with UKRSPETSAVIAPROM, "UKROBORONSPETSEXPORT" ..... hard, Belarus is much easier

[Pimply]

By the way, some time ago Elbit launched an interesting universal cockpit for airplanes and helicopters.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/farnborough-elbit-reveals-cockpitng-av
ionics-concept-344583 /

[VAF]

Quote: Pimply

By the way, some time ago Elbit launched an interesting universal cockpit for airplanes and helicopters.

Hi, Zhenya, what can I say well done ... they take "envy", no words

And our ...... only plans .. they plan one thing ... that’s what the Su-27SM should have looked like,

but it turned out ..... well, actually .. as always, because it's for yourself
as they say ... look and feel the difference

[Pimply]

I'm not special here, Serge. Explain the main differences

[TSOOBER]

VAF meant weapons, on the bottom photo uncontrollable! Conclusions do it yourself!

[Pimply]

And then I noticed - but I was not sure. 8)

[VAF]

Quote: TSOOBER

VAF meant weapons, on the bottom photo uncontrollable!

Igor, thanks buddy ! Just supplement .. not only weapons, but also SUV!

[VAF]

Quote: Pimply

Explain the main differences

Zhenya, what photo doesn’t open? I specifically inserted a large one ... so that everything would be clear:
1. On the right pylon (under the OT) Sapsan hangs an analog of your Lightning, Domokles and Amerov’s Lantirn, and our Mercury is also under the left.
Rocket Kh-31, Brls Irbis-E, and a lot of "bells and whistles"
And it was almost ready for 2001!
And in the end ...... the second photo C-13

[Pimply]

Yes, I already understood, Serge. Hmm, to put it mildly, the 21st century

[Deformator]

Not "Mercury" is suspended on the left. This is the KAB-500Kr-U corrected training bomb.

"Mercury" is already history:

[Botanologist]

Quote: vaf

look and feel the difference

Zvizdets ... complete ... the next stage is to increase the caliber of the gun and make it the main weapon.

[Deformator]

That is, what is in the second photo cannot bear what is in the first?

[Avenger711]

As for the "scorpion", then putting monitors and drawing something on them using signals from sensors is a penny job. ILS is already a topic, but somehow I don’t see that the capabilities of the machine were really expanded. However, I understand that the serious development of the Su-25 is the Su-25T and the Su-39, and the modernization, that is Israeli, that before SM, is so garbage, but cheap. The Su-39 level will obviously cost a little less, if not more, than a new machine.

[Botanologist]

Quote: Avenger711

put monitors and draw something on them according to signals from sensors, this is a penny

What, the doctors were powerless?
Such a bird is, capercaillie is called. He does not hear anything, he does not see anyone.

[Avenger711]

Alle garage, Algerian MiGs from the time when we still did not buy bundles of equipment from us.

[Wedmak]

Denis, my friend .... I'm sorry, but you’re carrying such nonsense that

Denis, buddy .... start reading "the opuses of the unctuous Esaul"

Well, if this is not so, then I'm sorry. I do not understand anything in management. Sergey, you upset me once again. Well, I thought, even though everything is in the mind ... yeah ...

[VAF]

Quote: Wedmak

Sergey, you upset me once again. Well, I thought, even though everything is in the mind ... yeah ...

Denis, don’t be upset, I won’t

hold ... to cheer up ... Art from Sukhoi ... here we are for sure .. for the first time!

[Wedmak]

Art from Sukhoi ... here we are for sure .. for the first time!

But where are we to the American machine of "enlightenment".

[VAF]

Quote: Wedmak

I do not understand anything in management.

Denis, don't be upset, in IKHNEM "management" in general, very few normal people understand. Although not, they understand, of course, but I can not do anything ... no further explanation?

Another example ... of "successful management"

On the evening of May 29, 2013, from the Airbus plant in Toulouse (France), the passenger airliner Airbus A320-214, received by the Russian airline Aeroflot - Russian Airlines, arrived at Moscow Sheremetyevo Airport from the Airbus plant in Toulouse (France), carrying a stylized livery similar to the coloring of Soviet Aeroflot aircraft of the 1960s early 1970s.
Airplane (serial number 5614, VP-BNT registration , during the testing phase carried a temporary French registration F-WWIF) has its own name "Dobrolet" (the name of the predecessor of "Aeroflot" in 1923-1932).
The aircraft was painted to commemorate the 90th anniversary of Aeroflot, which was celebrated on March 17 - March 17, 1923, the Russian Joint Stock Company Dobrolet was formed.

This aircraft was the fifth of six newly built A320s ordered by Aeroflot under a contract with the Irish leasing company AWAS and made its first flight on 18 April 2013.

It became the 51st A320 and 87th aircraft of the A3 family ... in the Aeroflot fleet.
The Dobrolet will be used on Russian domestic routes.

Hey ... "uryapatriots" ... "The Russian aviation industry is on the rise" .... "Russia is rising from its knees" .. well, etc.

[Wedmak]

Another example ... of "successful management"

Yeah, well done, that ... And our projects are either on the shelves or are ignored. Although the worse they are ... In general, the power of money has brought little good.

[VAF]

Quote: Wedmak

And our projects either lie on the shelves or are ignored.

Rather .. ignored, because. Firstly, the rollbacks are dumb, and secondly ... I paid attention to registration so that all our "state inspectors" can go to .... well, actually .. forest "

Here is another typical and fresh example of "management", I mean not Bobik-777 in the foreground, but in the background .. already 2 Bobik-747-400 Carco, the owner of Volgo-Dnepr and .. are planning more, and OUR TOP everything .. "sort of think ... just what .. about the An-124-e"!

And such examples and facts I can "throw" a carriage and several small carts

[Jurkovs]

By the way, the Americans were unable to rip off the RD180 and are still forced to buy it.

[Wedmak]

They could not, they considered it unprofitable. What, what, and they know how to count money.

[Airman]

Quote: Jurkovs

By the way, the Americans were unable to rip off the RD180 and are still forced to buy it.

The test bench is too expensive, and they won’t launch into space without testing.

[Pilat2009]

Quote: alexdol

Only then did he realize that the Germans wanted to intimidate us with this - after all, the technologies were hiding and there were other developments!

There were no other developments at that time, all the most modern was shown and bought. The Germans needed our raw materials and in exchange for them they sold equipment. And read less Yakovlev, he is inclined to self-praise

Quote: alexdol

after all, the RD180 engines were sold to the USA, and they are ENEMY for us

It would take 10 years and 10 billion dollars to repeat these US engines, as the designer said. They still haven’t repeated it, they decided what to buy cheaper. We loaded our plants and got money for R&D. Is it bad?

[ruslan7608]

They will necessarily copy, and they do not care about contracts and forfeits. They bend their line and that's it.

[Airman]

The Su-35 was originally created with an eye on the Chinese market, while at the same time a long-term work on its promotion continued ... First 48, now 24, and 10-12 will be delivered - the remaining 150-200 will be clones. When we learn to trade, first 100% prepayment, and then the planes, so that later there would be no desire to refuse supplies, and the release of clones only with our permission, otherwise there are penalties in the amount of 50% of the cost of each plane. and we are already arming China, the most probable enemy. In the USSR, the latest technology was first supplied to its units, and only then to the Warsaw Pact. Greed at the sight of "green".

[VAF]

Quote: Povshnik

These aircraft themselves practically do not have, but we are already arming China, the most probable enemy. In the USSR, the latest technology was first supplied to its units, and only then to the Warsaw Pact. Greed at the sight of "green".

Only +! but I will add on my own (to the thought about greed - after all, Super-duper is right .. "beat off", because so much was "thrown" into it that even "bury" now does not work out, you need to continue

Now, the article quote: "In flight, a Su-35S aircraft with tail number" 07 red "was demonstrated - the seventh production aircraft built under a contract with the Russian Air Force in 2009. The fighter was transferred to the Russian Air Force on December 28, 2012 and is part of the 929th State Flight Test Center ( GLITs) in Akhtubinsk In May, the aircraft flew from Akhtubinsk to the airfield of JSC "Flight Research Institute named after M.M. Gromov "in Zhukovsky near Moscow", Not written. that not one 07th. and the whole 4th Su-35S fighter for testing SUV systems and weapons themselves, which they plan to finish by 2015, if everything goes according to plan!

And now the news (and then again .. pass by) .....I warn you purely news, nothing more although if you know from what time the Su-35 aircraft is tested then ... it's worth considering
well, a reminder to those forum users, I will not indicate specifically, tea is not Esaul, who .. "all moves are recorded" that proved with foam at the mouth. that the Penguin doesn’t let anything in or drop it ...... get it and .. sign it!

On June 5, 2013, at Edwards Air Force Base, US Air Force Lieutenant Colonel George "Boxer" Schwartz launched an AIM-120C rocket from an F-35A aircraft for the first time.

The separation, starting the engine and the departure of the rocket from the aircraft were successful and safe.
After a number of such "tests" will be passed to controlled launches, according to plans they should pass before the end of this year.

[Meth]

Serega, hi.
Can you tell me when the inadequate administrator Smirnov will stop deleting my posts!

[VAF]

Quote: Met

hello.

Zoro, my friend! How long have you been gone?

This is a question .. "not for salary", he is now on .. "bird" rights, because. "Unleavened pesnyar Esaul" apparently leased an excavator, digging a hole for me, only a stupid one does not understand that the eagle is a free bird and on ... sinful land, not to sit down. but "tries" ... the snake ... he always mentioned it before, but now he already "quotes" whole pages ... he is preparing the second part of "Mine VAF" for release
So you better to the moderators .. they are more in courses!

[Meth]

ATP for the answer!
You are at war with Esaul!
I was glad to see you on the resource, and moderators sometimes call in Skype in pairs!
Serge, you know, don’t give up, we will break through - THE VICTORY will be ours!

[VAF]

Quote: Met

You are at war with Esaul!

And what to do .. have to we are peaceful people, but our armored train !

And to defeat him ... it's difficult ... because it's slippery ... well, it's not for nothing that I graduated from the Donetsk Political School, and even after the name of Epishev, though I graduated and ... "merged", and now ... as a political prostitute, in short like Trotsky!
And the method .. "cunning" .. will wait 3-5 days, and then once .. BOOK ... and ran away .. into an ambush ... and he writes and writes everything ... "writer .. damn it"!

Although he warned him .. not once ... but like peas against the wall

[Wedmak]

Um, from the pylon or from the inner compartment? Not quite clear.

[VAF]

Quote: Wedmak

from the pylon or from the internal compartment? Not quite clear.

Look again and take a closer look ...

1. Comfortable pylons installed only TWO and they are busy.
2. The flap of the inner compartment is open.
3. The 120th missiles are planned to be used only from the abdomen, from the wing or RCC, KR and UAB

[Wedmak]

Well .. you never know.
So there is progress. Well, the Americans have nowhere to go - either finish the 35th, or upgrade the 15th, 16th, 18th. And it seems the path is chosen.

[VAF]

Quote: Wedmak

So there is progress. Well, the Americans have nowhere to go - either finish the 35th, or upgrade the 15th, 16th, 18th. And it seems the path is chosen.

And they modernize the old and "drive" it for export, which is still fresh for themselves, well, the new continues ... just the pace is amazing, honestly!

Here's the continuation ... news-June 5, in addition to the first launch of AIM-120, another event took place in the F-35 program, a little more familiar, but at the same time a small anniversary.
Two more F-35As were transferred to the Joint Training Center at Eglin. Thus, in the training, counting together the air force machines of the 58th squadron, the KMP 501 and the organizationally included in the last two British aircraft, 25 "Lightning II" are based.
In the future, the center's fleet should be 59 boards.

Also, there was news about a pair of the first F-35C for training - their transfer to the training squadron of the Navy VFA-101 will occur within "the next weeks."

One of the new arrivals F-35A after landing.
Number 10-5015 - this means AF-27.
There is currently no way to identify a second car.

[Wedmak]

the pace is amazing, honestly!

And yet this is strange - the budget is being cut, a huge external debt, production is falling, another type of crisis, and the latest fighters are baking like buns. Where does the money come from ??? Fed prints and stupidly gives the Pentagon?

[Pimply]

External debt, as a percentage of GDP, is not that big. They simply have gigantic GDP. And their economy is now growing

[Avenger711]

Yes, so far to you ministers. You are definitely arming the country.

[kavkaz8888]

Greed at the sight of kickbacks.

[Ivanovich47]

Reading such articles, I always care about the same question: are we stupid? If you look at all the developments of the Chinese "comrades", even the uninitiated understands: everything was ripped off from the Russian counterparts. from BMP to space technology. And nothing changes! We suffer billions of dollars in losses. Is there really nothing you can do?

[Airman]

Quote: Ivanovich47

Reading such articles, I always care about the same question: are we stupid? If you look at all the developments of the Chinese "comrades", even the uninitiated understands: everything was ripped off from the Russian counterparts. from BMP to space technology. And nothing changes! We suffer billions of dollars in losses. Is there really nothing you can do?

We can not and do not want.

[Avenger711]

And if there weren’t any supplies of Su-27 to China, we wouldn’t have a Su-35 at all, just like the PAK FA, and KNAAPO would be in ruins.

[sashka]

This is not EBN's fault. Moreover, it is not Putin’s merit. They pulled themselves out by the hair. Honor and Praise .. But this is not a reason to sell technology ...

[Avenger711]

Yes Yes. Our people are self-organizing, and the authorities only interfere with it.

[cartridge]

Absolutely right. New weapons are being created today in order to have time to skim the cream, selling it to potential buyers in large quantities as much as possible. Profit is invested in the development and production of even more advanced designs.
You are absolutely right, dear Avenger711: the supply of the Su-27 made it possible to preserve and develop the Sukhoi concern, the sales of the T-90 gave a second life to Uralvagonzavod, the same can be said about Kurganmashzavod and the supply of BMP-3 to Arabs ... Created with Kuwaiti money in the mid-90s, a range of missiles for the Smerch. If I am not mistaken, the UAE paid for the creation of "Pantsir", with the Jordanian participation the RPG family "Hashim" was created. In general, weapons are primarily today a product that ensures the creation of an even more high-tech and desirable product on the market. Even if China tries to create something similar to the Su-35, it will still be catching up, since our designers at this time are working on projects for the next generation of weapons.

[kavkaz8888]

But it’s interesting that there is such a gadget in these planes that we click on the special button and the plane itself returns to us on autopilot ?!

[Wedmak]

Hardly. But there is certainly a gadget that will allow you to cut down important systems at the most inopportune moment. )))

[Alexander D.]

Quote: Wedmak

Hardly. But there is certainly a gadget that will allow you to cut down important systems at the most inopportune moment. )))

Do you think the Chinese are so tight that they will not provide for such a gadget?

[Avenger711]

This is technically almost impossible.

[Wedmak]

Someone's impossible? Implementation options - a ton! Well, I’m not saying that it comes down to a stupid relay - on / off.

[Airman]

Quote: Avenger711

This is technically almost impossible.

And why? Just at the right time at the command of one of the microcircuits in the engine, weapon or something else control system fails or blocks something, and the all-combat mission has not been completed.

[Avenger711]

The microcircuit is physically difficult to reach. How are you going to file such a command against her? And often there’s a generally dumb chip, but a smart firmware, for which the raws will ask. Bookmarks by time, well, so I set the clock for 20 years ahead ...

[Wedmak]

The microcircuit is physically difficult to reach.

Why? This is the most tender part of any electronics. That is why they are protected from external influences by ceramic cases, EM screens and others.

How are you going to file such a command against her?

Why should I give a command? Here's an example of a figurative, invented right away, and quite easy to implement - the radar signal receiving chip (yes, yes, I know that there is a whole block, but it's figuratively) topologically (i.e. at the crystal level) tuned to some signal frequency , a signal of a certain shape, power, modulation, etc. While this signal does not exist, everything works, as soon as this signal is received, it burns out a couple of transistors in the microcircuit (I hope you will not argue that there are enough extra volts?) And that’s all ... the radar fails, the guidance breaks down, the plane lands unassembled .

And often there’s a generally dumb chip, but a smart firmware, for which the raws will ask.

You can put a bypass channel of a dozen elements into the most stupid chip, and open and study the topology of the finished chips - which is not an easy task.
In my version above, smart firmware will not even guess about a trick.

Bookmarks by time, well, so I set the clock for 20 years ahead ...

This is difficult to implement because need an independent power source.

[kavkaz8888]

What kind of hoopoe minus set? What is wrong when the plane was sold, and then he himself flew to us when the Chinese decided to fight? Why is it tense with sense of humor?

[0255]

The Su-35 took off for the first time in 1985, if the Russian bureaucrats were stealing less, then there would already be hundreds of Su-35 would be in service. Russian military enterprises sell equipment to China so that there is something to live on, while their native government does not finance them.
You can recall the Yak-141 and MiG MFI, ruined in the 90s due to lack of money

[Apollo]

Good day to all

quote-5 On June 2013, a Chinese military delegation arriving in Russia at the Kubinka airfield near Moscow was shown a Su-35С fighter on the ground and in the air.

and here is SU-35С

[Avenger711]

Which noob drew the Su-35S PGO?

[Avenger711]

Vaf Minus.

[VAF]

Quote: Avenger711

Vaf Minus

You YES ... personally and with great pleasure!

[Alexey M]

It’s not going to end in good. The Chinese will lick it; they will give it a drink. And then we will bite our elbows. And what kind of war are you talking about, what kind of Japan and the USA. China has one adversary Russia does not need anything else. There will be nothing to do about us, and thanks to such contracts, it is only a matter of time.

[cartridge]

The main confrontation of the 35st century will be between the United States and China. If we hand over China a mattress, then after that we will not last long. And vice versa, if China holds out, it means an inevitable decline, or even the disappearance of US military-political pressure on Russia. As for airplanes, it’s better to let the Su-XNUMX fight the Americans with Chinese pilots on board than our pilots will be able to do.

[Airman]

Quote: cartridge

The main confrontation of the 35st century will be between the United States and China. If we hand over China a mattress, then after that we will not last long. And vice versa, if China holds out, it means an inevitable decline, or even the disappearance of US military-political pressure on Russia. As for airplanes, it’s better to let the Su-XNUMX fight the Americans with Chinese pilots on board than our pilots will be able to do.

China will NEVER fight with the USA. Too big a difference in the strategic nuclear forces. And CB is not possible to apply - it’s too far a theater of operations, so they cannot crush the number of mattresses, and the United States has the most powerful Navy. And the resources and territory they need are nearby in the north. So we arm them on our own head. They lose 10-20 million as two fingers, all the more so since they already live in the Far East, 8-10 million, and this is 5 convoys and thousands of spies and saboteurs.

[sashka]

Quote: Povshnik

China will NEVER fight with the USA. Too big difference in strategic nuclear forces

Do they need it? Need Siberia. Then agree and share. And we, like fools (drug addicts) addicted to (needles) pipes, are afraid to invest money in our economy. Suddenly steal. I do not understand..

[Avenger711]

If the Chinese needed the north, they would have populated everything there 1000 years ago.

[sashka]

Quote: Avenger711

If the Chinese needed the north, they would have settled everything there 1000 years ago

The level of needs has changed. Now everyone, under any pretext, needs Siberia.

[Avenger711]

And what will you do with Siberia? Settled there 100 million Chinese, give each machine gun and declare them an occupying army. They do not go to their north.

[kavkaz8888]

The Slavic chronology, which was lost by the king of parsley, was called "from the creation of the world in the star temple" and meant victory over the Dragon empire, that is. over China. The war was so long and bloody that even the count of years was reset. So we already tried.
By the way, now in the yard 7521 is summer from SMZH, and if to the maximum, then 604387 is summer from Time of Three Suns.
Who cares:
http://paneravis.ru/obshestvo/515667/1/kalendari-bog-chisla-letoischislenie-slav
en

[Pimply]

Ingling, as I understand it?

[ifolga]

Talking about a multipolar world, Russia and China are natural allies in opposing the hegemony of the Tang, and the weak link in this alliance is precisely Russia with its liberals. China has become a much bigger headache for AI, here's an example http://periscope2.ru/2013/03/14/7151/. Yes, China's strategic nuclear forces are much weaker than the United States' strategic nuclear forces, but there is such a thing as a trend and it is not in favor of AI. All of China's current policy is precisely to avoid conflict with China, at least until 2020. China's GDP is based on the real sector of production, and not on printing dollars and speculation in the banking sector, and only their "military weakness" makes you put up with the existing order of things and continue to trade for candy wrappers. So I completely agree with Comrade Patron. And they do not need resources and territories in the north, they would have to deal with their resources and territories. Of the unjustified military conflicts, China can only be blamed for the war with Vietnam, but this was revenge for Vietnam's interference in the affairs of Kampuchea. The United States has several orders of magnitude more "feats" of spreading crap and there can be no union with them by definition.

[Pimply]

China's GDP is based on cheap labor and exports. Look at the rate of decline of their economy.

[Mairos]

What are 8-10 million in the Far East? Wake up? Well, a million is possible, but what you write is nonsense, excuse me.

[cartridge]

I read your posts, and I am surprised at your incomprehensible figures on the number of migrants in Russia (in St. Petersburg you say up to 5 million, in Moscow - 10 million, in the Far East - 10 million). If you follow your logic, then in the rest of Russia there are also tens of millions of them? So?
This is a police problem that can be resolved with political will. But with all due respect to Putin, his internal (including migration) policy is in full possession.
Reading your panic posts, a Russian proverb involuntarily comes to mind: "Fear has big eyes."
Do not be afraid! 25 million migrants exist only in your imagination. Yes, there are a lot of them, but your numbers are just taken from the ceiling!
But the interests of the Chinese are still not in Siberia. They extend towards its southern neighbors, where millions of huaqiao have actually settled over the centuries and where world trade routes and much cheaper resources than in Siberia lie.

[Russ69]

Quote: cartridge

But the interests of the Chinese are still not in Siberia. They extend towards its southern neighbors, where millions of huaqiao have actually settled over the centuries and where world trade routes and much cheaper resources than in Siberia lie.

Perhaps I agree, before climbing into Russia, China will try to resolve its territorial disputes with weaker neighbors. So to say, run in the army and try in practice.

[sashka]

We are becoming like Ukraine. Sell ​​something to somebody. Brazil has already been offered with all the guts. They don't take it .. So the budget is really problematic. Where is Zin's money? How to keep "promises" without getting off the oil and gas needle?

[Alexander D.]

Quote: Sasha

We are becoming like Ukraine. Sell ​​something to somebody. Brazil has already been offered with all the guts. They don't take it .. So the budget is really problematic. Where is Zin's money? How to keep "promises" without getting off the oil and gas needle?

Not so much alike. Ukraine is ready to cooperate with everyone - regardless of whether the country is in the CU or not. But the government of Russia does not understand at all: The Italians and the French are not in the CU, and moreover they are propagandized as potential opponents (they are members of NATO) - but they can buy and unfasten taxpayer money from them (that is, those present at this forum). In general, China can be considered a potential enemy in connection with their huge territorial ambitions - they can sell technologies and production lines for the production of Su-27, the very first to sell Su-35, although they themselves have a gulkin nose. But Ukraine, with which most joint projects in terms of military-technical cooperation is considered almost an evil empire, until it surrenders and joins the Customs Union - Ukraine must be crushed to the last, even at a loss.

[fedorovith]

Nobody presses her, and military-technical cooperation with her will be concrete after her final definition with a "chair", then there will be cooperation like with Italians, French or absolutely will move to another "plane".

[Airman]

Quote: Alexander D.

Quote: Sasha

We are becoming like Ukraine. Sell ​​something to somebody. Brazil has already been offered with all the guts. They don't take it .. So the budget is really problematic. Where is Zin's money? How to keep "promises" without getting off the oil and gas needle?

Not so much alike. Ukraine is ready to cooperate with everyone - regardless of whether the country is in the CU or not. But the government of Russia does not understand at all: The Italians and the French are not in the CU, and moreover they are propagandized as potential opponents (they are members of NATO) - but they can buy and unfasten taxpayer money from them (that is, those present at this forum). In general, China can be considered a potential enemy in connection with their huge territorial ambitions - they can sell technologies and production lines for the production of Su-27, the very first to sell Su-35, although they themselves have a gulkin nose. But Ukraine, with which most joint projects in terms of military-technical cooperation is considered almost an evil empire, until it surrenders and joins the Customs Union - Ukraine must be crushed to the last, even at a loss.

And you forgot that due to the fact that you did not want to cooperate in the production of missiles in Dnepropetrovsk for Sharks, we FORCED to dispose of them - NO ROCKET.

[Alexander D.]

Well, if the exit from the An-70 project is like revenge for the R-39 rocket, then it’s somehow silly. Russia needs this aircraft much more than Ukraine. And much more hard workers from the Russian Federation are involved in its production than from Ukraine.
And on the question of deciding ... China is not a member of the CU, India is also not a member of the CSTO, Brazil is far from the EurAsS. But Putin is crushed by a toad precisely because of Ukraine. And about no one is pressing Ukraine - as Zurabov said there, "you need to understand that there is now such a thing as economic wars in the world."

[DmitriRazumov]

Quote: Alexander D.

the Talyans and the French are not in the vehicle, and moreover they are promoted as potential adversaries (they are members of NATO) - but they can buy and unfasten taxpayer money from them (that is, those present at this forum)

Weapons purchased in these countries are not accepted for service. Rather, it is about studying specific developments in order to determine the performance characteristics of potential opponents and pulling their projects to the level if necessary. Similarly, sniper rifles are purchased in Austria, etc. But in order for the equipment to be adopted by the partner, it is necessary to fulfill a number of conditions, for example, disclose software codes and certify them, share know-how, etc. The acquisition of several dozen samples does not make the weather ...

Quote: Alexander D.

In general, China can be considered a potential enemy in connection with their huge territorial ambitions - they can sell technologies and production lines for the production of Su-27, the very first to sell Su-35, although they themselves have a gulkin nose.

I do not think that the Russian Federation refuses to sell these fighters to Ukraine; rather, Ukraine has no interest or budgets for the purchase of these aircraft. And so there are joint projects to modernize the aviation fleet of Ukraine using Russian technologies.

Quote: Alexander D.

But Ukraine, with which most joint projects in terms of military-technical cooperation is considered almost an evil empire, until it surrenders and joins the Customs Union - Ukraine must be crushed to the last, even at a loss.

Ukraine has not yet entered into any agreement with the Russian Federation at the state level (TS, CSTO, etc.), however, it wants the Russian Federation to purchase military equipment from it, for example, AN-70, which. must be adopted. Where is the guarantee that tomorrow Ukraine will not join the EU and the comrades from Brussels, as they usually like, will not dictate to her how Antonov should be released and to whom to sell them? In this case, we are talking about the security of the Russian Federation, so the approaches here are extremely tough and cautious.

[Avenger711]

Damn, well, let's not sell anything at all. To buy too, but this is no longer at will, since there will be no currency. As long as there is an opportunity to get enough of something, you need to use it, and you don’t have to think that we’ll arm everyone on our own head, they will be armed without us, but only those who in case of war really will sit aside and laugh.

[sergey158-29]

And as for me, let them sell, while they buy - all that they wanted, they had slammed for a long time and embodied in the J-20 and J-31, so - at least they would load the plants and pay a dime!

[sashka]

Quote: sergey158-29

And as for me, let them sell, while they buy - all that they wanted, they had slammed for a long time and embodied in the J-20 and J-31, so - at least they would load the plants and pay a dime!

Whose factories and to whom denyuzhku? Technologies can’t be sold. Appearance does not mean manufacturing knowledge .. Indeed, in appearance you will not copy the microcircuit. And so here ...

[Avenger711]

What damn technology? We are not talking about technology.

[sergey158-29]

Listen buddy, if you don’t know, then the technology was sold for a long time on the Su-27SK which turned into the Chinese Shenyang J-11, so it's too late to drink Borjomi ... they explain to you that as long as there is demand for the Su-35, you have to push it in while the Chinese their J-20/31 are not stamped !!!

For those who are in the "tank" I will repeat - the sale of the Su-35 will allow:
- load Russian military factories
- get money in the Russian treasury

so it’s clear or even chew ...

[Avenger711]

The technology itself does not provide a scientific basis, since building a Su-27 is one thing, and understanding why it is like that is completely different. China, being a global factory, having factories for the production of which is only possible in our own developments, remains weak.

[Consmo]

I think ours are not stupid. It’s not worse than us on the forum. The equipment for China is glider and new engines. And Pentium processor with Lenovo monitors. From this row, let pi ... t what they want. The planer, like the Mercedes cars, they are stealing from the picture. The engines of FIG. Monocrystal blades only we, Amer, and the French blue do (as I heard from Discovery)
And denyuzhki, then they are tutochki. Workers and engineers will receive an advance, salary, quarterly, progressive, a glass for the Chinese, brothers in mind.
Russian only once na ... b can.
Then you get the return line.

[try]

Quote: Konsmo

And denyuzhki, then they are tutochki. Workers and engineers will receive an advance, salary, quarterly, progressive, a glass for the Chinese, brothers in mind.
Russian only once na ... b can.
Then you get the return line.

it is visible in history. in the same city, but every time but with a new governor. and then those denyuzhki they will be in America. tea is not in rubles, the Chinese pay.

[Diviz]

Americans still have not created rd 180 and decided to buy it stupidly. I think the Chinese have no difference between su27 and su35 but in the end they get a bodice if they copy it.

[Pimply]

Selling these aircraft to China is suicide.

[Airman]

Quote: Pimply

Selling these aircraft to China is suicide.

Our pilots, crew, tankers, motorized infantry and a large number of civilians.

[Pimply]

Exactly

[sergey158-29]

Suicide - this is the Chinese in the Far East to run, do not notice how you look and talk in Chinese ...