Military Review

Mountain motorized rifle special forces

47



The formation of two mountain separate motorized rifle brigades was almost completed on the territory of the North Caucasus. They began as early as 2005, when in Karachay-Cherkessia, not far from Cherkessk, as well as in Dagestan, 250-km from Makhachkala began the construction of military camps, delivered all the necessary types of weapons and equipment. Almost all the necessary material resources were transferred in a few months. And at the end of 2007, both brigades began combat training.

These units can be considered new, because, firstly, they were created specifically by order of the President of Russia, and secondly, nothing like this has existed until now in the Russian army - the 33 and 34 brigades are called upon to perform tasks in mountainous conditions. The head of state then noted that these units are called upon to become centers for the overall work of the Ministry of Defense, the Federal Security Service and the Border Troops.

33-I mountain separate motorized rifle brigade is deployed in one of the districts of Dagestan, Botlikh. And it is not accidental, because on the one hand the military camp is surrounded by mountain paths leading directly to Chechnya, and on the other side is the Donkey's Ear, where in the summer of 1999, the most brutal and bloody battles between paratroopers of the 7 Airborne Guards Division were marked and militants led by Sh. Basayev.

The construction of the military camp of the 33 Brigade is still ongoing, the park for the automotive and armored vehicles, the commissioning of the hospital and a large sports stadium are in the process of completion. All buildings are equipped with the latest technology. As for the situation of living and practicing combat training, all the necessary conditions have been created for this in the town. For family soldiers, apartments are fully furnished and equipped with everything necessary, from kitchenware to household appliances. For military servicemen under contract, hostels are provided. Each room has several people. In addition, dining rooms, centers of culture and leisure, and consumer services combines are also provided. There is also a kindergarten and school. The total number of buildings that are located on the territory of the military camp has reached three hundred. Over all this, the state allocated over 12 billion rubles.

If we talk about combat training, then there are no problems with that either. The most modern educational and material base is provided in the military camp. A training ground was built on the territory of Chechnya, at which the combat training of the unit is being conducted. In addition, there are educational buildings, equipped with the latest standards, landing assault strip, as well as many other objects of educational and material base. In the process of preparing units, there is a priority: while one of them is engaged at the test site, the rest are engaged in the study of theory and military science in the academic building. It presents several computer simulators for mechanical drivers MTLB-V, a simulator that is used for training in firing from the Igla air defense missile system, a small artillery "training ground" where artillerymen conduct classes. The corps also provides classes for training most types of military specialties, gyms for playing sports, hand-to-hand combat.

As for recruitment, it was conducted throughout the entire 2007 year. Subdivisions were formed in the Moscow, Volga-Urals, Siberian and North Caucasus districts. Already at the very beginning of the year, the selection was held, and people were appointed to the posts of ensigns and officers of the brigade. In March, charges were held with the division management officers, and by April a task force of officers had arrived in Botlikh, which was called upon to organize work on the reception of military facilities and the preparation of the basis for the reception of units. The first of them arrived at their final destination at the beginning of May - they were soldiers from the curfew platoon, the brigade command and the medical company.

In August, a tactical exercise, unique in its essence, was conducted in one of the brigade divisions. The division of mountain riflemen with regular weapons took several peaks in the area of ​​Elbrus. Their height reached more than 5,6 thousands of meters above sea level. As part of the 4,5 high-rise exercise, thousands of meters were fired from standard weapons, as well as heavy machine guns, millimeter 82 mortars and anti-tank weapons. In addition, as part of the exercise, a test of knowledge of mountain training techniques was carried out. Mining, mountaineering clothing and equipment, new models of radar equipment, means of protecting military personnel from low temperatures and fire damage, as well as special food for mountain units were subjected to tests.

Preparation for the ascent was carried out according to an individual program. The instructors of the Russian Mountaineering Federation provided tremendous support. For a month, unit soldiers conducted training on the territory of the Daryal mountain range, learned how to live in the mountains. The trainings were also held on the Karmadonsky Pass.

In the course of the exercises, all tasks were accomplished, but it was not without problems. And there is nothing surprising or strange about this, because these were the first teachings of this kind. The fighters had to constantly use optics, because it was almost impossible to determine the distance to the target by eye. It was necessary to take into account the trajectory of the bullet, which at a high-altitude of about 3-4 thousands of meters is much steeper.

Of course, all this is very detailed in the methodological manuals compiled by the Main Directorate of Combat Training of the Armed Forces. During the development of the documents, experience gained in Chechnya and Afghanistan was used to draw upon the work of foreign colleagues. However, this is all theory, but in practice everything looks completely different.

Before arriving at the permanent location, each unit of the brigade received special training at the Daryal training ground. Of course, this cannot be compared with the experience gained by the fighters during the conquest of mountain peaks, but all this awaits military personnel of mountain divisions in the near future, because such ascents are planning to make mandatory.

As for the 34 mountain brigade, over the entire period of its existence, its fighters, fortunately, did not yet have to take part in real hostilities, although during the war in South Ossetia, the mountain special forces units were fully prepared to repel enemy attacks, while on Marukh and Klukhorsky passes. Currently, the main task assigned to the brigade is to ensure security during the Summer Olympic Games, which will be held in 2014 in Sochi.

The living and training conditions on the territory of the military camp of this brigade are no worse than those that the 33 brigade can boast of. The barrack looks more like a dormitory, each room is designed for an 4 person, a washbasin, a shower and a bathroom are provided for two rooms. In the rooms for each soldier provides a wardrobe for personal belongings, there are chairs and a desk. Each company has its own sports room, where, in addition to simulators, weights and dumbbells, there are mirrors on the walls, and punching bags. In addition, on the territory of the town there is also a large sports hall, which houses the only indoor climbing wall in the country. On it, the fighters practice their mountaineering skills. The street provides an obstacle course, horizontal bars and parallel bars, as well as a special strip, which is intended for the division of mountain reconnaissance.

Brigadier shooting range is also amazing: it is equipped with caponiers, trenches, targets, as well as a large number of other structures.

Currently, 33-brigade represented by the following units: 838-m and 839-m motorized rifle individual mountain battalions, 490-m howitzer separate self-propelled artillery battalion, 1198-recce separate mountain battalion, antiaircraft rocket artillery battery and battalion communications, an engineering sapper company and an electronic warfare company, a material supply company and a repair company, a medical company, a commandant platoon and a RKHB platoon, a VUNRO and VUNA, a military orchestra and a department of management, the editorial board and the printing press of newspapers s and polygon.

The 34 brigade includes the 1001 and 1021 motorized rifle separate mountain battalions, the 491 howitzer separate self-propelled artillery battalion, the 1199 reconnaissance separate mountain battalion, anti-aircraft missile artillery battery and the communications battalion of the company of the company and the company of the company of the company of the company of the company -Saper, repair company and software company, medical company, RCBZ platoon and commandant platoon, VUNRO and VUNA, military orchestra and printing house, department of management, training ground.

In addition, management decided to completely abandon donkeys and mules and purchase local horse breeds.

A few words should be said about the combat training program. According to the approved standards, 114 watches for motorized rifle battalions and 128 watches for mountaineering are allocated for this kind of training. Each fighter of the mountain brigade must undergo a course of basic mountain training, which includes the study of safety in the mountains, the nature of the mountains, skiing, handling equipment. The teams are equipped with special slopes and mounds for the training of movement skills on the slopes in the summer, on the snow slopes - in the winter. A section of the river was also equipped where fighters learn to overcome mountain rivers in the summer and work out movements in “cats” in winter,

If we talk about uniforms, it should be noted that one set of it costs about 140 thousand rubles. But such kits are intended only for rock climbers. For all the other fighters of the brigades, sets were purchased cheaper - on the order of 49-80 thousand rubles, depending on what terrain and tasks of which importance it is intended. Certain elements of uniforms and equipment were purchased abroad.

It must be said that there are no random people in any mountain brigade. All fighters have excellent training. And we can say with confidence that such guys, as in the mountain special forces, will never let you down.

Materials used:
http://bratishka.ru/archiv/2008/2/2008_2_2.php
http://mountainwarfareunits.info/mountain/Russia/ru.htm
http://nvo.ng.ru/forces/2007-10-19/1_alpinisty.html
http://stavropol.bezformata.ru/listnews/motostrelkovaya-gornaya-brigada/5688112/
http://www.radiorus.ru/issue.html?iid=381387&rid=2534
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  1. Yarbay
    Yarbay 11 June 2013 08: 12
    +8
    Awesome power!
    1. Phantom Revolution
      Phantom Revolution 11 June 2013 12: 52
      +8
      I’ll add another video, glory to the special forces.)
  2. erased
    erased 11 June 2013 08: 24
    17
    Well, if the spelling is correct, then we can say that it is very good. Chic conditions for the service and improvement of combat skill.
    But there are questions.
    1. Why are there two battalions in brigades? (do not consider intelligence). Must be 4-5! Or then call the brigades regiments closer to reality.
    2. Why is there no rocket artillery? Doesn’t she work in the mountains? The division would not hurt. And there are no helicopters yet. And this is bad - remember the experience of Afghanistan. Donkeys and horses cannot go everywhere; a car will not go everywhere. In any case, not so fast. And turntables will solve these problems. A combined regiment of combat and transport helicopters is needed - 40 vehicles at least.
    3.
    Mountain motorized rifle special forces
    And then the special forces, and even some motorized rifle? What, now all to write down in special forces? 33 and 34 mountain brigades are infantry. If you really need to somehow highlight - let there be mountain huntsmen. Why use someone else's term.

    Everything is not good at once. But this must be sought. The very fact of creating such brigades is pleasing. Now I would have to develop this business in full.
    1. Yarbay
      Yarbay 11 June 2013 08: 53
      +8
      Quote: erased
      (do not consider intelligence)


      Why not consider ??
      After all, the whole battalion!
      Quote: erased
      And then the special forces, and even some motorized rifle?
      completely agree here! Mountain shooters!
      Quote: erased
      The very fact of creating such brigades is pleasing.


      and when there were whole divisions!
      1. Explore
        Explore 11 June 2013 11: 16
        +4
        Because intelligence is not a full-fledged strike group. Its task is to provide information to the brigade forces.

        Hospital average:
        In the regiment 2-3 SMEs and PP (although there may be RB).
        The brigade has 3-4 SMEs and RBs (sometimes just PP).
        So I think 2 SMEs, albeit mountainous, are really "nothing". This unit and regiment can be called a stretch.
        1. Yarbay
          Yarbay 11 June 2013 11: 28
          +2
          Quote: Explorar
          Because intelligence is not a full-fledged strike group. Its task is to provide information to the brigade forces.

          For two battalions, a whole reconnaissance battalion ??
          I believe that if necessary, the reconnaissance battalion can be used as a shock!
    2. tungus-meteorit
      tungus-meteorit 11 June 2013 17: 59
      +1
      Now there are two battalions at the places of permanent deployment - in Karachay-Cherkessia and Dagestan, and for the training battalion from each brigade they are almost always located in Ossetia, where the best mountain ranges in Russia are the Daryal training ground mentioned in the article, and there are also general mountain foothill landfills Tarskoye, Shalkhi and Komgaron (this one in the jurisdiction of the Ministry of Internal Affairs). Find the video recording of the Victory Day parade on May 9, 2013 in Vladikavkaz (North Ossetia TV company Alania) - there these battalions participated in the parade from these 33 and 34 brigades.
  3. cartridge
    cartridge 11 June 2013 09: 05
    37
    In the 80s, for 3 years (a year before school and two after graduation) he served in the motorized rifle battalion (mountain) in Afghanistan and I want to clarify that the name mountain special forces was used out of place. There is no such special forces at all. Motorized rifle (mountain) units and units do not fulfill the tasks of special forces. They operate in the battle formations of their troops, and not in isolation from them, in foothill and mountainous areas.
    In Soviet times, all mountain subdivisions were written in the job books and official documents not as mountain rifle units, but as “motorized rifle company (mountain)”, “motorized rifle battalion (mountain)”. Exactly like this with the word mountain in brackets.
    There were no mountain rifle regiments, much less brigades or divisions in the SA in the 80s. There were only units - mountain companies and maximum battalions. There were no separate mountain units. All of them were part of the linear motorized rifle regiments. Let me remind you that I’m talking about the 80s.
    In the 90s, such units did not exist at all. But in those same 90s, we fell in love with calling everything without getting called special forces.
    The main distinguishing feature of special forces is their initial preparation for operations behind enemy lines, not at the front, but behind the front line. But militarily illiterate journalists boldly stamp with this name all that is possible and impossible. So, in addition to the GRU special forces units, we got out of nowhere and special forces of the Internal Troops, and special forces of the police, and even prison special forces of the Federal Penitentiary Service.
    In fact, these structures should not be named so. For the explosives, by definition, cannot be behind enemy lines, and even more so there should not be policemen and jailers. Troops intended for operations on their territory are called "special purpose units". Special, but not special. In the case of the aforementioned special forces imposters from the explosives, this is exactly the case. This is osnaz in its purest form. Well, in the police and the Federal Penitentiary Service, no special or special names should be by definition at all.
    And one more remark along the way. On animals in the mountains.
    I quote: "... the management has decided to completely abandon donkeys and mules and buy horses of local breeds."
    This is mistake. I have a small published study on the use of pack animals in the mountains of the Main Caucasus Range on the experience of the fighting in 1942.
    So I will say briefly. Any horses at an altitude of more than 2000 meters die. In the literal sense of the word die. Because of this, in the summer of the 42nd part of the 37th Army, driven into the mountains, they lost their supplies and were on the verge of destruction. Caravans of horses carrying goods, coming to the army from the Transcaucasus, did not reach the goal because of the mass death of horses at high altitudes. Only the head of the rear of the army was able to save the situation. In 4 days, he collected more than 800 donkeys in nearby settlements of the Transcaucasian republics, and they were able to deliver ammunition and food to our defending troops.
    Donkey, dear friends, I’ll inform you that you can move with cargo in the mountains at altitudes up to 3500 meters, which makes it, unlike a horse, simply an indispensable means of delivering goods to the highlands.
    In Soviet times, in Osh (southern Kyrgyzstan) there was the only cavalry brigade in the Soviet Army (not to be confused with the 15th Mosfilm cavalry regiment for film parties), which was also intended to supply troops in the mountains in complete off-road conditions, making it impossible to supply troops by land or air.
    For this purpose, the brigade included units of mountain pack animals, namely those donkeys and mules, which they so hastily and unreasonably hurried to get rid of in 33 and 34 brigades.
    At what cost and why will this error be corrected? And why, if our grandfathers at that war already answered this question.
    1. omsbon
      omsbon 11 June 2013 09: 13
      +8
      Thank you Ivan! Very interesting, informative comment!
    2. Yarbay
      Yarbay 11 June 2013 09: 46
      10
      Ivan read your comment with interest, but disagrees with some points!
      First of all, about the name * special forces * -You just took the army special forces as a standard and began to compare it with all the others!
      The question is that the abbreviation * special forces * does not belong only to the army!
      Special Forces is a special assignment unit, and appointments can be different!
      For example * prison special forces of the Federal Penitentiary Service * is a special forces unit to suppress riots in prisons and restore order!
      Agree that the fighters of this detachment must have specific and special training!
      Also for other * special forces * you can say!
      As for horses, you are also inaccurate!
      There are breeds of horses that are even bred in the highlands (over 2,500 thousand meters above sea level)!
      For example Karachaevskaya, Kabardinskaya, Karabakh, men
      1. cartridge
        cartridge 11 June 2013 12: 02
        10
        Dear Alibek!
        I am not a cattle breeder, and you, as I think, too, so I readily admit the thought that somewhere on our planet there are horses that I quote from you "even breed in the highlands (over 2,500 thousand meters above sea level)!"
        I can admit that some horses even have a thread in the Himalayas and even greater heights are available. And for some of them, the stratosphere is on the shoulder. No wonder the legend of the winged Pegasus was born!
        20 years ago I wrote my small study based on factual, real, documented archival information about the military operations of our army in the Caucasus mountains in the summer and autumn of 1942. The fighting took place precisely in the mountains of Kabardino-Balkaria, that is, where our mountain brigades are deployed today. And then there were no stratonaut horses, and those that were massively dead when climbing to altitudes above 2 km.
        Therefore, it is possible to write about some Kyrgyz horses or Pamir yaks, but there is no point in this. During the time after the war, horse breeding did not get any better. In the foothills of the North Caucasus and Transcaucasia, thousands of herds of horses gave way to herds of cars. Those thoroughbred horses that are grown at stud farms are expensive, and they are not needed. No yaks will be brought to Kabardino-Balkaria. Kyrgyz shepherds will not appear there either. Local horse mutts are unlikely to become more resistant to height. And how many can you find there? But a donkey or a mule, he is valuable in that it is cheap, and the cargo delivers better than a horse.
        In general, I do not want to repeat what I wrote earlier ...
        The truth of the assertion that in these mountains, namely in the mountains of Kabardino-Balkaria, the donkey as a pack animal turned out to be more efficient than a horse paid in 1942 by the large number of lives of our soldiers to which horse caravans with ammunition did not reach.
        This is a real historical fact.
        So why try to prove the opposite to yourself and others?
        1. Yarbay
          Yarbay 11 June 2013 12: 44
          +1
          Quote: cartridge
          20 years ago I wrote my small study based on factual, real, documented archival information about the military operations of our army in the Caucasus mountains in the summer and autumn of 1942

          Unlike you, I did not carefully study this question on the Second World War!
          but in the mountains in Karabakh they often used horses, but of course not always the Karabakh ones — they are expensive and rare breeds!
          There, of course, the mountains are a little smaller, but I did not see any problems with them, only with feeding and at night are shy, but mostly young!
          I think that if the rear team reacts responsibly to the selection of horses, there should be no problems!
          But this is just my opinion!
          against donkeys, too, have nothing against)))
          1. cartridge
            cartridge 11 June 2013 13: 14
            +4
            but in the mountains in Karabakh they often used horses, but of course not always the Karabakh ones — they are expensive and rare breeds!


            I’m just about this and write that I’m talking about a specific place - Kabardino-Balkaria. During the war, trails for driving caravans across the Main Caucasian Range were forced to lay along very steep slopes, in places where vegetation was almost absent and with large elevation differences along the route.
            I insist that the boundary of 2000 meters is critical for horses.
            The South Caucasus in this regard is still not so extreme. The heights from the side of Agdam towards Stepanakert are 400-500 m above sea level. To the south of Karabakh from the Hadrut side is literally a couple of peaks about a kilometer high. And everywhere heights are lower. And in Karabakh itself, only in its extreme west, single peaks rise slightly above 2000 meters.
            So in these parts the horses are given green light by definition.
            1. smersh70
              smersh70 11 June 2013 15: 15
              +5
              Quote: cartridge
              I insist that the boundary of 2000 meters is critical for horses.



              The first time I agree with you!)))
              but the front line also runs through the small Caucasus .... starting from Mount Murov .... there are heights of up to 4200 meters .... and there donkeys were worth its weight in gold)))))) believe me ... I'm there spent 10 years))))))))
              1. Yarbay
                Yarbay 11 June 2013 15: 28
                +1
                Quote: smersh70
                The first time I agree with you!)))

                the soldier of the soldier learns from afar))))))))))
          2. smersh70
            smersh70 11 June 2013 15: 04
            +4
            Quote: Yarbay
            against donkeys, too, have nothing against)))



            in the mountains of the Lesser Caucasus (MUROV) - donkeys showed themselves very well ... Humpty right .. the truth is their bad character prevented the delivery of food, fuel, weapons and ammunition to the posts ....
            but rose better than any tractor or MTLB ...))
            and the horses were weak .... almost never used ... only sometimes to get to posts no higher than 2000m ...
            1. Yarbay
              Yarbay 11 June 2013 15: 25
              +2
              Quote: smersh70
              in the mountains of the Lesser Caucasus (MUROV) -

              Murov and even in the winter, I agree there will not be a horse to ride in!
              1. smersh70
                smersh70 11 June 2013 17: 30
                +2
                Quote: Yarbay
                Murov and even in the winter, I agree there will not be a horse to ride in!




                I remember how the MTO brigade clicked the cry - give donkeys ...))) so a column of donkeys was pulled from neighboring villages and their price increased significantly. fellow ... it is true that it fell again in the spring, before taking it, I don’t want it)))))))))))))))))))
        2. tungus-meteorit
          tungus-meteorit 11 June 2013 17: 46
          0
          That's it, that for the mountain shooters and for the border guards in the Caucasus, a large number of Mongolian horses were purchased that feel great and high in the mountains (they are from the Mongolian Altai, where there are also high mountains from 3 to 4,5 thousand meters), so your question you can close ... / and the mountain brigades are not deployed in Kabardino-Balkaria, but in Dagestan and Karachay-Cherkessia, and the battalion from each brigade is periodically trained in Ossetia, where the best mountain ranges in Russia are the Daryal training ground mentioned in the article, but there are still combined arms mountain ranges Tarskoye, Shalkhi and Komgaron (this one in the jurisdiction of the Ministry of Internal Affairs). /
          1. Yarbay
            Yarbay 11 June 2013 18: 14
            0
            Quote: tungus-meteorit
            / and mountain brigades are not deployed in Kabardino-Balkaria,

            dear Ivan spoke about Kabardino Balkaria in WWII !!
        3. old man54
          old man54 12 June 2013 07: 16
          0
          Quote: cartridge
          During the time after the war, horse breeding did not get any better. In the foothills of the North Caucasus and Transcaucasia, thousands of herds of horses gave way to herds of cars. Local horse mutts are unlikely to become more resistant to height. And how many can you find there? But a donkey or a mule, he is valuable in that it is cheap, and the cargo delivers better than a horse.

          I do not agree with you, Ivan! There are not so few horses as it seems, Not the time of Marshal Budenny now, of course, but still. :) I repeat, without special selection and pedigree in our Altai, Gorny, horses are used for profit today just like that! And mountain hikes, and mountain hunting, and for tourists / climbers brought the load of mountain ranges. And for your needs. Do not despair, there is still not much trouble.)
      2. tungus-meteorit
        tungus-meteorit 11 June 2013 17: 53
        +1
        Russian mountain shooters use Mongolian horses, see my answer is next to Patron
    3. Humpty
      Humpty 11 June 2013 09: 48
      +9
      At the expense of horses I can not agree with you. Depends on the breed. Up to 4200 m, horses in Kyrgyzstan work fine (they hadn’t been higher with them). Of course, donkey is more unpretentious and less noticeable, especially for food and can work for 5500, but where to put its bad character. Donkeys and horses are also necessary.
      In the photo are donkeys and a drover at 5300.
      1. Yarbay
        Yarbay 11 June 2013 10: 04
        +3
        Quote: Humpty
        Depends on the breed. Up to 4200 m, horses in Kyrgyzstan work fine (they hadn’t been higher with them). Of course, donkey is more unpretentious and less noticeable, especially for food and can work for 5500, but where to put its bad character. Donkeys and horses are also necessary.
        In the photo are donkeys and a drover at 5300.

        Absolutely correct remark!
    4. Denis_SF
      Denis_SF 11 June 2013 10: 14
      +3
      Well, in the police and the Federal Penitentiary Service, there should be no special or special names by definition at all.

      I’ll try to make a small remark: Police Detachment (Mobile now, because the police are no longer there) Special Purpose, it’s a little more complicated here than you wrote.
    5. avt
      avt 11 June 2013 15: 01
      +3
      Quote: cartridge
      Donkey, dear friends, I’ll inform you that you can move with cargo in the mountains at altitudes up to 3500 meters, which makes it, unlike a horse, simply an indispensable means of delivering goods to the highlands.

      good In general, what a difficult fate the combat engineers in the mountains have! With such labor and blood, experience is gained, and then suddenly, and all is in vain! Then we will wash ourselves with blood and again collect the shots, ammunition ..... request
    6. tungus-meteorit
      tungus-meteorit 11 June 2013 17: 55
      +2
      The article seems to make a mistake about horses of local breeds, since horses of the Mongolian-Altai breed were shown at mountain shooters on SevKavTV
    7. old man54
      old man54 12 June 2013 07: 04
      +2
      Quote: cartridge

      So I will say briefly. Any horses at an altitude of more than 2000 meters die. In the literal sense of the word die. Because of this, in the summer of the 42nd part of the 37th Army, driven into the mountains, they lost their supplies and were on the verge of destruction. Caravans of horses carrying goods, coming to the army from the Transcaucasus, did not reach the goal because of the mass death of horses at high altitudes.

      I read your comment with interest, liked it and surprised you with an awareness of this topic! But I will allow myself to disagree with you in something!
      I did not serve in such special forces, but ... I have been going to the mountains for many years, I have been involved in mountaineering. There were few in the Caucasus, but in Central Asia and Altai there were many. I personally saw horses at altitudes of at least 2500m from the sea, with a rider or luggage.
      Regarding your investigation of the war in the 42nd year, I did not study the material, but from my life experience I can assume that most likely the horses were ordinary, from the plain, and even poorly fed both before and during the transition to the mountains. And in the mountains you can’t save much on food, especially when you work at maximum loads. Probably luggage for them was also loaded not from the mind, but as often happens. But to flatter that, she is LIVING !!! like a man! You take the average guy from the plain, bring him abruptly to the mountains, weaken him rekzak kg so 30/40 and kick into the mountains! far and in a jump whether he will run away from you, without acclimatization, right away from the plain. People over there in a beautiful physical. uniform, prepare on the plain specifically, cross-country run, and then come to the mountains and acclimatize! And then, in the 42nd, there was no time for this, so they drove the horses, scum! Sorry for them, this is not their war!
      A mule, he is certainly more enduring in the mountains, but a horse at 2000m may well come in handy if physically ready for it. And above ... above should be used helicopters, I think so.
      About the fact that the word "spetsnaz" has already been blurred, I agree with you, is most disgusting. On TV, that's all you hear. Soon, the construction battalion and the aerospace troops will probably begin to call them special forces. :) And what, they have special tasks, not like everyone else. :))
    8. Aleks tv
      Aleks tv 12 June 2013 17: 26
      +1
      Quote: cartridge
      In the 80 of the 3 year (a year before school and two after graduation) he served in the motorized rifle battalion


      I read your comment with pleasure, Ivan. A plus.
      Thanks for the info.

      A little small addition:
      I have alppodgotovka.
      Retrained in Dzhan-Tugan, had to climb the Caucasus.

      In general, I agree about pack animals.
      But in our country "Balkars" were especially popular (along with donkeys), not to be confused with "Kabardian" horses, it is smaller and with "dry" legs.
      Perhaps the article deals with the Karachai breed, these artiodactyls in August 1998 of the year (I don’t remember exactly too lazy to google) were proxied along Elbrus, and this is five thousandth. So now in the Elbrus region there is a good selection of pack animals.

      But this breed is dear ...
      "... the leadership has decided to completely abandon donkeys and mules and buy local horses." somehow it smelled of kickbacks ... request

      I see below your comments below, very interesting.
      good
    9. Pimply
      Pimply 12 June 2013 19: 04
      +1
      Thank. So literate and balanced answers are too rare here.
  4. Humpty
    Humpty 11 June 2013 09: 21
    +4
    It's good . But a person with mountain training, according to some established criteria, must have at least 2 sports category in mountaineering. 128 hours is absolutely not enough for mountain training. During this time, you can teach basic things about working with rope, ferries and walking on simple mountain slopes. There is something that needs to be improved. It would be logical to turn to the experience of mountain climbers and trainers from SKA.
    I saw three Pakistanis, I don’t know who they are, they went from 4500 to 6600 and vice versa in bad weather during the day. This is a very good indicator of physical and psychological preparation. But SKA-shnikov cannot be surprised by this.
    1. sanych your division
      sanych your division 11 June 2013 22: 14
      +3
      you’d see how Afghans rush through the mountains ... I probably won’t be able to do it in a straight line either! that's what it means to live in the mountains! for us people from the plains it seemed something transcendental. although he himself had some mountain practice.
      1. old man54
        old man54 12 June 2013 07: 29
        +1
        Quote: Sanych your division
        you’d see how Afghans rush through the mountains ... I probably won’t be able to do it in a straight line either! that's what it means to live in the mountains! for us people from the plains it seemed something transcendental. although he himself had some mountain practice.

        a few years in the mountains, you’ll live for 2000/4000, actively constantly moving there, and you can! :))
    2. old man54
      old man54 12 June 2013 07: 25
      +1
      Quote: Humpty
      But a person with mountain training, according to some established criteria, must have at least 2 sports category in mountaineering. 128 hours is absolutely not enough for mountain training.
      It would be logical to turn to the experience of mountain climbers and trainers from SKA.

      I agree with you about the preparation! There is no time for fat, at least the 3rd category and that would be good. But mid-altitude training for contractors must be carried out, while the Fritz won practically professional climbers among their huntsmen during the Second World War, and no matter what, they knew that they were needed.
      and about SKA ... good guys there, I do not argue. Only now I know that 10 years ago, just our excellent Siberian climbers, arresters, but not SKA at all, were involved in mountain training and for explosives and for the Berd special forces (as long as he was). And now this topic did not seem to close.
  5. Denis_SF
    Denis_SF 11 June 2013 10: 03
    +6
    There are poems and a song on them by V.S. Vysotsky, if you will, they are in the subject of the article:

    The sunset sparkled like the brilliance of a blade.
    Death considered her prey.
    The fight will be tomorrow, but for now
    Platoon burrowing into the clouds
    And left the pass.

    Leave conversations
    Forward and up, and there ...
    After all, these are our mountains,
    They will help us!

    And before the war, this slope
    German guy took with you!
    He fell down, but was saved,
    And now, maybe he
    His machine is preparing for battle.

    A platoon climbs up, and by the river -
    The one you walked with before.
    We are waiting for the attack to longing,
    And here are the alpine arrows
    Today, something is not in shock.

    You are here again, you are assembled all,
    You are waiting for the cherished signal.
    And the guy is, he's here too.
    Among the shooters from the Edelweiss.
    They must be reset from the pass!
    1. shtabs
      shtabs 11 June 2013 19: 31
      +1
      Vysotsky has great songs ..
  6. Humpty
    Humpty 11 June 2013 10: 30
    +7
    More on pack animals.
    1 Donkey is stubborn, unpretentious in summer in food, can work at high altitudes (used up to 5450), confidently moves up and down paths. With significant snow cover, its value drops to zero.
    2 A horse of a suitable breed is indispensable when crossing mountain rivers. On good trails and simple slopes, it confidently runs to an altitude of 4200. Good nutrition required. In the summer in the Caucasus or Altai there is no problem with this, but what about the third day of the winter in winter? A horse is shy, can behave unpredictably, when you lead it along an icy path, you have to punch the road ahead (sometimes with a pickaxe and crowbar). The donkey in this case, patency is not so hot, but better. Horses because of fright, it happens that they fall from narrow paths and into the cracks of glaciers.
    3 The yak tolerates cold well, he will find suitable food for himself under deep snow and in frozen ground. He moves well along trails, slopes and glaciers. It is used at heights even higher than 6000. It smells cracks on the glacier. He does not like heat, wayward. Perhaps the best of pack animals for the mountains.
    1. old man54
      old man54 12 June 2013 06: 42
      +1
      You "+"! Impressed by your knowledge of animals, their use in the mountains and in general - your knowledge of the mountains!
  7. cartridge
    cartridge 11 June 2013 11: 11
    11
    A few words about mountain shooters and mountaineering. The post turned out to be quite large, so it is divided into several parts.
    I am writing based on my personal experience of serving in the mountain battalion, first as a soldier, and after a few years as a junior officer.
    I will nevertheless explain a little what the mountain units are for and are being created.
    Their main task is not to conquer the peaks. And even skiing they absolutely do not need.
    The main task of the mountain rifle units is the capture and retention of advantageous lines and positions in the mountains, ensuring the safe movement of our troops along mountain roads.
    By itself, the movement of our, in general, small units in the mountains does not frighten the enemy much. They then become dangerous for him when along the road that the enemy considered his own, his columns of equipment suddenly stop walking, or even worse, fighting vehicles of our troops burst into the area of ​​his location along this road.
    All combat activities of mountain shooters are subordinate to the achievement of this particular task.
    1. Yarbay
      Yarbay 11 June 2013 11: 31
      +3
      Quote: cartridge
      The main task of the mountain rifle units is the capture and retention of advantageous lines and positions in the mountains, ensuring the safe movement of our troops along mountain roads.

      Here a colleague completely agrees with you !!
    2. old man54
      old man54 12 June 2013 06: 50
      +1
      I agree with your opinion, but ... if you studied the database experience in the Caucasus mountains in the 42nd, and then also in Afghanistan, you probably read and know what it was worth, especially in the Caucasus, to undermine the army with mountaineering training in the army! They probably also thought up to the water of the troops and the afagn that it was not necessary, but after that the leadership changed their opinion. What would become clearer to you, an example: how often and in reality will a gas mask be used by a soldier? The probability is not great, but nevertheless, training on its use is mandatory in the sun. So is mountain rifle units with alp training. If it’s not there, then it’s not mountain rifle, I’m infantry :) Remember the German huntsmen, there were more than half of the mountain climbers there!
  8. cartridge
    cartridge 11 June 2013 11: 12
    +7
    Continuing my post.
    Take control of the pass, bridge or tunnel and prevent the enemy from knocking themselves from these positions - that’s what the efforts of a good mountain commander are aimed at.
    What follows from this? And it follows that to accomplish this task, the commander must have:
    1) in addition to small arms and heavy weapons
    2) ammunition in sufficient quantity
    3) water
    4) food
    There are many more things to list, but these four positions are the main ones. If you do not have at least one of them, then you can not resist in the mountains.
    Now remember how climbers go to the mountains. They go almost lightly. 99% of the cargo in a professional climbing expedition is carried by some Sherpas. Funds for the remuneration of porters are laid in advance in the expedition's budget. Even before climbing or during the course, base and intermediate camps are equipped on the route. As a result, at the top there is a smiling tanned man in black glasses and a couple of henchmen somewhere near him.
    So mountain shooters are not climbers, not skiers or other creaks suffering from a lack of adrenaline.
    1. old man54
      old man54 12 June 2013 07: 40
      0
      Quote: cartridge

      Now remember how climbers go to the mountains. They go almost lightly. 99% of the cargo in a professional climbing expedition is carried by some Sherpas. Funds for the remuneration of porters are laid in advance in the expedition's budget. Even before climbing or during the course, base and intermediate camps are equipped on the route. As a result, at the top there is a smiling tanned man in black glasses and a couple of henchmen somewhere near him.
      So mountain shooters are not climbers, not skiers or other creaks suffering from a lack of adrenaline.

      You do not quite understand, I'm sorry that there is real simple mountaineering, especially Russian mountaineering. What you described is bourgeois, western, difficult mountaineering, well, or ours, but an expeditionary harkr, when a camp is set up for several months under the route. In this case, if you do not resort to the services of porters or pack animals, then all the time the expedition will only be carried by the participants for the BC. And when simply, they drag themselves, because and there is no superfluous money and in general, do not push it!
      Mountain tourism ... Even high-sport tourism has only recently begun to be used in its routes of ascent to peaks of more than 2-nd category of difficulty. And so they mostly overcome the ridges through the passes. Although mountain tourism and "horse" type of activity. Very heavy!:))
  9. cartridge
    cartridge 11 June 2013 11: 14
    10
    And again I continue.
    The sport closest to the mountain shooters is called mountain tourism. I ask you not to confuse mountain tourism with the concept of mountain tourism, which is used by vacationers in camps in the mountains in the Sochi region or in the tourist gorges of the North Caucasus.
    I assure you that none of you have ever seen with your own eyes those who are engaged in mountain tourism at an almost professional level. Why? Yes, because in Russia there are only a few dozen such people. Not even hundreds, namely several tens.
    Such expeditions do not go on well-worn and well-known millions of vacationing routes in the Krasnaya Polyana region. These routes are laid in the mountains of the Polar Urals, in the Sayan Mountains or through Dzhugdzhur. This is a very expensive and expensive business. The duration of the transition is measured in weeks.
    The main difference between a mountain tourist and a climber is that he drags everything on himself. Itself. One.
    The second difference in the way the route is laid.
    A high-class climber climbs light up an almost impregnable steep wall along the shortest path to the top.
    The mountain tourist, due to the burden of cargo, chooses routes that are not so steep, but longer and longer in time and distance.
    1. old man54
      old man54 12 June 2013 07: 45
      +1
      Yes, why are you so, there are a lot of them, cool mountain tourists! And master of sports, and so on. I only personally killed 10 in N-ke I know. And how many are there in the country?
  10. cartridge
    cartridge 11 June 2013 11: 15
    +8
    I continue again.
    So the mountain shooter is an extreme variant of a mountain tourist, because in addition to what he personally needs for his personal survival, he also drags what the unit needs.
    Let me list what I carried in Afghanistan in my backpack. By the way, they didn’t give us the usual sidor bag, but a dimensionless canvas tourist backpack.
    In its bowels, in pockets and on thongs were placed: water for 5 days - five plastic liter flasks; 5 solders without cardboard packaging; cartridges without packs, stuffed like an ingot into dense polyethylene from under dry land - in the apotheosis the contents of zinc were placed - 1080 pcs. 5,45mm; warm jacket = pea jacket; linen, socks, underpants; soap and soap accessories, newsprint, wipe your ass (the current roll was not then) request
    A cotton army sleeping bag was attached to the backpack.
    In the trophy bra there are three spare shops + 6 equipped with clips with adapters + 4 grenades + orange smoke warning light + signal light.
    Plus, most infantrymen also have a jet-powered Fly on their belt.
  11. cartridge
    cartridge 11 June 2013 11: 16
    10
    In addition, we are calculating heavy weapons with which, God forbid, forces to drag their own iron. But they simply won’t be able to bring their ammunition physically to the place, so for each soldier and officer on a hump over a backpack there’s a piece of curb tape with 12,7 cartridges for a DShK or Utes or a tape with VOGs for the gas station.
    And there are mortars from the battalion minbatra. Therefore, two mines to the 82mm Tray can hang around your neck with a rope.
    If you didn’t get them, then you will receive anti-personnel mines or TNT bombs, which will be needed for the mine engineers to clear the passage or install a mine barrier.
    And also from the flamethrower company of the division are several boys, each of which has the so-called pack: two rocket-propelled flamethrowers locked together. And this is a total of 22 kg. And in turn, people help drag their shaitan pipes to the flamethrowers.
    And also the signalmen with their radio stations, which they carry themselves, but quite difficult spare batteries for them could lie in your backpack.
    And it can also be given an art corrector and an advanced aircraft manufacturer, who are often very difficult to take away their junk themselves.
    And also a shovel, ice ax, climbing rope, carbines, rings, Lebedyansky's gazebo, raincoat ...
    And also a bunch of bends to eat that thread of hot or drink tea. Dry alcohol is a good thing, but it is usually not enough.
    In general, what weight. You yourself cannot get up with such a backpack. Usually the backpack is on the ground. You sit on your ass, put your shoulders in the straps, hold out your arms and two comrades force you to tear you off the ground, helping to get up.
    All the way you walk in the "L" position with your back bent parallel to the ground. Even in spite of my youth, the load was still the same.
    So there is no time for mountaineering.
    1. sanych your division
      sanych your division 11 June 2013 22: 24
      +1
      pancake! and when you slip without help you don’t get up. you stick the trunk and for you two of you like a turnip from that tale ... I thought the straps from the backpack shoulders to the ground will push :)
      1. Hleb
        Hleb 12 June 2013 04: 10
        +2
        Well, that’s it ... it’s hard, of course, and you have to get up over your knee, but what kind of stupidity did you fall and you can’t get up without the help of a friend? (in this case, you don’t have to think about an ambush)
      2. Hleb
        Hleb 12 June 2013 04: 43
        +3
        no one will load more than 35 kg. this is taking into account both the ammunition and the PKM or the R-159, etc. let the output be at least a week. the functional state of a fighter in a group (if it is really a real combat unit, and not a mountain-donkey battalion) should not raise any questions about "getting up on his own." it's scary to think about ambushes and how a fighter breathes after a steep hill with such a backpack, but you can't even get up yourself ...
        and when you slip without help you don’t get up

        this certainly does not apply to intelligence and special forces. well, yes! I forgot about tourism)
        1. old man54
          old man54 12 June 2013 07: 52
          +2
          Quote: Gleb

          this certainly does not apply to intelligence and special forces. well, yes! I forgot about tourism)

          seasoned tourists (of which no more than 10 in the country) and drag more than 50 kg. But, after a day with such a load, talking about combat readiness and activity of a fighter can only be conditional, I think so. I myself did not carry backpacks in the foothills for more than 50 kg, but I don’t think that having thrown off this backpack I would be able to jump and jump over stones like a goat, shooting from automatic equipment!
          1. Hleb
            Hleb 12 June 2013 10: 28
            0
            wherever I served, I didn’t see people loading 50 or more. I can’t even imagine such an exit into the mountains. If a person cannot even rise himself, there’s nothing to talk about ...
    2. Aleks tv
      Aleks tv 12 June 2013 18: 02
      +1
      Quote: cartridge
      And still

      Quote: cartridge
      And still

      Quote: cartridge
      And still


      To the very point, Ivan.
      Constantly tied podzho.nik "forgotten yet, shob" could fall without thinking, at any place without thinking, when the halt. wink
      Already a little froze from the memories.
  12. cartridge
    cartridge 11 June 2013 11: 19
    14
    And finally I finish.
    The main thing is to go to the so-called task, that is, to secretly bring the whole burden to the place and occupy a favorable firing line. On average, we went to the task in two, sometimes three days. The apogee was 8 days in five through several parallel ridges.
    So the guys from climbing circles here are not much quoted. During the fighting, there is little sense in their ability for mountain shooters. But the mountain tourist pro, yes! This is pepper! Authority! But there were almost no such people in the troops and in Soviet times, and now all the more so.
    The good training of officers in several combined arms schools came to the rescue. These included: Alma-Ata wok them. Marshal Konev, Tashkent VOKU named after Lenin and Ordzhonikidze wok them. Marshal Eremenko. The officers of these three schools were the best mountaineers in Afghanistan in their basic training.
    I read and was surprised at the size of what was written. If I tired someone with my writing, then I apologize generously.
    1. Yarbay
      Yarbay 11 June 2013 11: 39
      +1
      Quote: cartridge
      If I tired someone with my writing, then I apologize generously.

      it was interesting to read and compare what you had and what we had in the 90s!
      Heaven and earth!
    2. Hleb
      Hleb 11 June 2013 12: 12
      +4
      No, I didn’t tire. I would still read. Reading for one thing, I remembered. Especially those hellish loads that have to be passed in the mountains.
    3. IRBIS
      IRBIS 11 June 2013 16: 41
      +6
      Quote: cartridge
      I read and was surprised at the size of what was written. If I tired someone with my writing, then I apologize generously.

      Ivan, your posts are not tiresome, but quite the opposite. Everything is very sensible and on the topic, I agree 100%. And you have not gone into details yet. I happened to "walk" on the slides of the Czech Republic, an extremely amusing activity. Heartbreaking ... The sensations I got then can only be compared with a "walk" in Grozny in 95.
      Thank you for such comments, a very good addition to the article.
    4. official
      official 11 June 2013 22: 33
      +1
      Dear Patron, I completely agree with you. I have been engaged in mountain tourism for more than 10 years, and the Caucasus has come quite a lot. With friends (also in uniform) they repeatedly came to the same conclusion: mountaineering is a purely military-applied sport, when your task is to cover a certain distance in a certain time with overcoming natural obstacles. Moreover, earlier for the mountain hiking categorical routes only passes could be chosen as obstacles, climbing to the peaks was allowed only if they logically fit into the thread of the route (for example, traverse the peaks with a transition to another valley). Now everything has been simplified, and they go to the peaks radially, entering them in the reports as obstacles. The only thing I don’t agree with is that there are only a few mountaineers. This is a very developed sport, where there are categories of routes, bit and workshop standards, Federations (in all CIS countries), and just on the routes you will meet quite a few groups, by the way and foreign ones. Even in the early 2000s, when the majority of the Caucasus was associated with hostilities, mountain tourism in Karachaevo - Cherkessia did not disappear and the list of groups at the registrar in KSS was very impressive.
      1. official
        official 11 June 2013 22: 56
        0
        And as for ownership of mining equipment, I would argue who is a climber or mountain hiker. The passes through which the categorical routes are laid are of such complexity that they are no different from climbing difficult peaks - the same ice and rock walls, scree with an angle of 90 degrees (joke bully ) And overcoming such passes can take not a day or two. Here, just for information: Category 2 B pass - Steep (over 45 °) snow, ice and rock slopes of medium complexity, short (up to 10-15 m) wall sections are possible; icefalls of medium complexity. Requirements for passing - The application of the most common arsenal of techniques:

        railing or alternate insurance, the use of hooks;

        front movement on the rise without a backpack;

        rope descent.

        As a rule, overnight stays are inevitable in the glacial zone, sometimes at or near the pass.
        The time for passing 2B pass is not less than a day. And this is not the most difficult category. So the technical skills of a good mountain hiker are at least no worse than that of a climber.
      2. old man54
        old man54 12 June 2013 07: 57
        0
        Well, finally !! person with understanding! I agree with you!
    5. official
      official 11 June 2013 22: 37
      +1
      By the way, I recalled a joke from the mountain humor: The group of climbers was very upset - due to the fact that the mules and donkeys did not give them equipment and food to the base camp, they climbed to the top. A group of mountain tourists passing by in full view did not understand them sincerely laughing
      1. old man54
        old man54 12 June 2013 08: 01
        0
        I also remembered something from mountain humor: mountaineering is a school of courage, and tourism is a school of marriage! :)
    6. old man54
      old man54 12 June 2013 08: 20
      0
      Quote: cartridge

      I read and was surprised at the size of what was written. If I tired someone with my writing, then I apologize generously.

      yes no, on the contrary, the problem and your understanding of its solutions were very openly and extensively covered. It was very interesting and informative to read you, thanks. You can see right away that this topic, the war in the mountains, is very lively and sick for you, and it touches in response.
  13. cartridge
    cartridge 11 June 2013 11: 38
    +4
    Yes and one more remark. Then a proposal was made to give mountain shooters helicopters. This is not necessary.
    In Afghanistan, the special forces landed from helicopters at first often did not fulfill their tasks because the appearance of the helicopter immediately became known to the leaders of the nearest gangs from observers or from local residents.
    Then the special forces began to practice imitation of false landings, when the machine imitated a group landing in different places at a great distance from each other.
    But what is suitable for small special forces is not suitable for mountain companies and battalions. The number of motorized rifle companies in the wartime state is 110 people. In Afghanistan, this number was greater due to the so-called supernumeraries and reached 150-160 people. When entering the military due to l / s gain (sappers, signalmen, flamethrowers, mortars, doctors, etc.), the company number was about 200 people. Landing even one such company, let alone a battalion, will require dozens of transport helicopters, plus almost the same number of fire support helicopters. This is called the military language landing tactical airborne assault. About half an hour later Afghanistan will know about such an event.
    And here the meaning of the actions of mountain shooters is completely lost, which secretly must saddle precisely those communications in the mountains that interest our command.
    Landing from helicopters is often also impossible due to inappropriate terrain, especially if you have to take up positions on steep slopes or talus. Here the helicopter will simply destroy itself and people.
    Well, if you light up ahead of time, then in the event of a war against the regular army of the enemy, wizards in blue helicopters can fly in and simply destroy us. Indeed, air defense of mountain shooters is often absent by definition.
    So the main means of transportation for the mountain shooter is legs. And this is normal.
    1. Yarbay
      Yarbay 11 June 2013 11: 46
      +6
      Quote: cartridge
      Yes and one more remark. Then a proposal was made to give mountain shooters helicopters. This is not necessary

      here I do not agree with you!
      Helicopters are needed, but for other purposes, and not for landing!
      to support from the air and suppress enemy firing points in battle just right!
      as well as in the evacuation of the wounded, since in the conditions of the highlands even not seriously wounded people have little time to survive!
      1. cartridge
        cartridge 11 June 2013 13: 27
        +3
        So, dear Alibek, no one ever deprived us. It’s just that at the beginning of the discussion, one comrade suggested with a broad gesture to introduce 40 helicopters into the brigades, and I say that this is a completely ill-conceived proposal.
        Pilots should be under the command of an aviation commander, not ground. And thank God that it is.
        As for what you write about, support, evacuation, this is already being done.
        Think for yourself why the commander of the land brigade still bother with issues of accommodation, refueling, repair. maintenance and equipment of helicopters. But he does not understand anything. He is not taught this. How will he check why a helicopter is on the ground, and not in the air? Pilots of noodles hang on him, and he swallows, because in the inner life of aviation he does not understand anything. Therefore, pilots all their lives fucked by their commander, the same pilot as they are. And this is the only correct way to manage aviation.
        And for everything else, there is a well-functioning air support call system for decades. For combat, for this there is an aviation officer, who is called the advanced airman and is next to the company or battalion commander. He controls the actions of fire support helicopters.
        And so in a normal situation, by radio or telephone, he outlined the problem to the immediate commander. After 2-3 links, this application will go to the CP of aviation and that's it. Wait for the helicopter. Designate a platform for receiving the car and loading the wounded.
        But to keep 40 helicopters in the staff of a motorized rifle regiment or brigade, this, excuse me, is the stupidity of an amateur.
        1. Yarbay
          Yarbay 11 June 2013 14: 01
          +1
          Quote: cartridge
          Pilots should be under the command of an aviation commander, not ground. And thank God that it is.
          As for what you write about, support, evacuation, this is already being done.

          I meant that the commander of the airborne unit should be assigned the general combat task by the commander of the mountain infantry brigade, and how the commander of the air unit will decide this in his competence!
          I just don’t know how you do in this matter!
          Quote: cartridge
          Think for yourself why the commander of the land brigade still bother with issues of accommodation, refueling, repair. helicopter maintenance and equipment

          Well this is a clear stump!
          In this sense, I did not even consider this issue!
        2. Yarbay
          Yarbay 11 June 2013 14: 04
          0
          Quote: cartridge
          And so in a normal situation, by radio or telephone, he outlined the problem to the immediate commander. After 2-3 links, this application will go to the CP of aviation and that's it. Wait for the helicopter. Designate a platform for receiving the car and loading the wounded.

          Also an option!
          You painted everything interestingly, the only one who is unsure of the mobility of the execution of the decision of the commander of the land battalion, the commander of the air unit, if he is not in actual subordination!
          with respect!
  14. Mr. Truth
    Mr. Truth 11 June 2013 12: 11
    -2
    I believe that the time of the classic mountain rifle units has passed. In modern conditions, mountains and other complex military operations require specialized reconnaissance brigades, and specialized special forces brigades.
    1. Yarbay
      Yarbay 11 June 2013 12: 34
      +4
      Quote: Mr. Truth
      I believe that the time of the classic mountain rifle units has passed. In modern conditions, mountains and other complex military operations require specialized reconnaissance brigades, and specialized special forces brigades.

      I completely disagree!
      It depends on who you are fighting !!
      1. Nevsky
        Nevsky 11 June 2013 14: 06
        +2
        Quote: Yarbay
        Quote: Mr. Truth
        I believe that the time of the classic mountain rifle units has passed. In modern conditions, mountains and other complex military operations require specialized reconnaissance brigades, and specialized special forces brigades.

        I completely disagree!
        It depends on who you are fighting !!


        Greetings Alibek. And if the enemy uses this in the mountains, are you running a lot from him in the mountains ?:
        1. Yarbay
          Yarbay 11 June 2013 14: 42
          +1
          Quote: Nevsky
          Greetings Alibek. And if the enemy uses this in the mountains, are you running a lot from him in the mountains ?:

          Hello, what do you quote?
          I didn’t understand the issue of running, I didn’t write anything like that !!
          The units of the mountain rifle brigade solve operational tactical tasks, military ,!
          And the UAV for them is the same as enemy aircraft!
          I did not understand the question!
        2. Mr. Truth
          Mr. Truth 11 June 2013 15: 01
          0
          Quote: Nevsky
          Greetings Alibek. And if the enemy uses this in the mountains, are you running a lot from him in the mountains ?:

          Either this is either a huge pile of combined arms units, and a pair of castrated brigades cannot be stopped.
        3. sanych your division
          sanych your division 11 June 2013 22: 30
          +4
          you run like that! Afghans run quietly at night and nothing! thermal cameras tell you? yes they laid on these cameras! the blanket is wet and business then! I personally saw it. Do you know how they columns of cars with IR headlights hollowed? using a regular mobile phone included in the night photo mode. to any tricky ... pu is always ... with a screw. here you have the highlanders
    2. cartridge
      cartridge 11 June 2013 13: 38
      +3
      Thank God that you have not been given the right to make decisions and nothing depends on your opinion, otherwise you would have waved your sword with a stick worse than Taburetkin!

      Explain, to me, naive, what you mean by the words "specialized intelligence brigades" and "specialized brigades of special forces."

      Also expound to the public, you are our kitchen commander, your thoughts on several points:
      1) the nature of the tasks assigned,
      2) subordination,
      3) the number
      4) organizational structure,
      5) required weapons and military equipment, locations
      6) the combat capabilities of your hypothetical troops.

      Do not be embarrassed and answer in full. You are a strategist. This is immediately visible! soldier
      1. Mr. Truth
        Mr. Truth 11 June 2013 15: 00
        -1
        Quote: cartridge
        "specialized reconnaissance brigades"

        Information awareness for the army command and operational strategic command, there are no such brigades anywhere in the world. The closest is similar to the American BFSB, but the ground element is small in them.
        It must consist of at least two ground reconnaissance battalions, one RTSR battalion, with radars, an UAV unit, an electronic warfare battalion or large company, and one full-time military intelligence company (military intelligence, not military intelligence, information analysis, etc.) and one seconded from the echelon for the database.
        One brigade for the army command, one for the USC.
        The SPN brigade meets almost all requirements, it is necessary to enlarge the units / battalions by adding a company of special weapons and special-purpose transport companies to the brigade. Now this is only one team only.
        Give brigades a reinforced squadron of helicopters for wartime or at least four for training in peacetime. Special Forces brigades should be subordinate to the GRU, and not to the land investigators.
        Quote: cartridge
        Thank God that you have not been given the right to make decisions and nothing depends on your opinion, otherwise you would have waved your sword with a stick worse than Taburetkin!

        Explain, to me, naive, what you mean by the words "specialized intelligence brigades" and "specialized brigades of special forces."

        Also expound to the public, you are our kitchen commander, your thoughts on several points:
        1) the nature of the tasks assigned,
        2) subordination,
        3) the number
        4) organizational structure,
        5) required weapons and military equipment, locations
        6) the combat capabilities of your hypothetical troops.

        Do not be embarrassed and answer in full. You are a strategist. This is immediately visible!

        What kind of libel? Could not be limited to a couple of questions?
        1. cartridge
          cartridge 11 June 2013 19: 32
          +6
          I will not get involved in the discussion with you, because it is just a waste of my time.
          When I read phrases like yours "Information awareness for the army command and operational strategic command", "One brigade per army command, one at USC", "enlarge detachments / battalions by adding a special weapons company and special transport companies to the brigade", "one seconded from the echelon for the database "it immediately becomes clear that you are not a military specialist and your level of competence in these matters is below zero.
          I do not want to offend you in any way, but understand that I have served more than 30 calendar years. Behind me is a school, academy and the General Staff. And at the same time, I do not consider myself a commander, although I left the reserve quite recently and from a very respectable position. Military affairs is a very complex branch of knowledge and it is beyond human power to comprehend all the nuances of this science. There will always be white spots.
          The issues of creating military organisms are very complex. Specialized research institutes are working on their future appearance, for which design bureaus are preparing new models of military hardware. To the areas of possible locations, military detachments send special groups to work out the terrain. A lot of specialists are involved up to mathematicians and meteorologists. This is a very complex and lengthy process. When determining the OSH of the future part, one of the prerequisites is the guaranteed ability to perform its intended tasks.
          Now look at what you wrote: "at least two battalions for ground reconnaissance, one battalion of RTSR, with radars, a UAV SD, a battalion or a large company of electronic warfare and one full-time company of military intelligence (military intelligence, not military, information analysis etc.) and one seconded from the echelon for the database. " For sailors, such an education is called a brigade of heterogeneous forces, and in Russian your recipe is called a hodgepodge team.
          In general, what you offer, the late Chernomyrdin called Wishlist. And between Wishlist and reality the distance is enormous.
          So do not be offended, but a dispute with you is like a dispute between a leading surgeon of a regional hospital and a ninth-grader boy who wants to go to medical school. Only one has already filled the bumps and understands that surgery is not only a sweeping wave of a scalpel, but the second thinks that only he will be able to treat people from all diseases.
          There is a saying about people like you, who easily solve the most difficult problems in passing without delving into their essence, there is a saying: "Everyone imagines himself a strategist seeing the battle from the outside."
          I would advise you to be more critical of your military knowledge.
          Farewell. soldier
          1. Yarbay
            Yarbay 11 June 2013 20: 59
            +3
            Quote: cartridge
            Behind me is a school, academy and the General Staff.

            Thank you for your comments on the topic and for the lesson, I took a lot of interesting things for myself! I always thought that I knew everything on this topic, but still learned new things !!
            I confess before you had a bad and low opinion!
            I wish you health, good luck and success!
            1. cartridge
              cartridge 12 June 2013 00: 37
              0
              Thanks for the kind words! Honestly, I was of the same opinion about you, but apparently we can find points for positive contact. I hope that disagreements on private issues will not affect the ability to maintain normal relations in the future! I wish you all the best and good luck in your affairs!
          2. Mr. Truth
            Mr. Truth 12 June 2013 15: 14
            0
            Nothing constructive except a biography.
          3. Aleks tv
            Aleks tv 12 June 2013 18: 19
            +2
            I enjoyed reading all your comments.
            From the heart - a plus.
            And the article contains almost zero information about these long-suffering brigades. The funding and maintenance of these parts is not well known. What is the cost of leaving FULLY built and ... abandoned townships. Nobody wrote that they spend money on them as for elite "kantemirovka" and "taman". Fighters can actually be given gold ice axes (for funding, not actual). The cut of funds there is wild and crumbs of equipment reach the soldiers and officers, but at least they do, and then go ahead. A lot of unprofessional purchasing of equipment is a disaster.
            To the guys of these brigades - all the best wishes!

            One day I myself had to leave my native armor in my service (the stars converged) and return tightly for a while to my hobby - mountain climbing, but only in military gear.

            I agree about the opinion of professional Mountain Tourism. These skills (namely acquired skills mountain tourism) are most valuable in mountain preparation of units and divisions. I do not beg for the dignity of mountaineering.
            The only thing is that there is a sufficient number of perfectly trained professional mountaineers who can easily walk on the "globe" of the same Greater Caucasus, Yes.
            Here, in my opinion, there is another problem: they "are" in civilian life and it is extremely difficult to attract them to the service ... but it is quite possible with INSTRUCTORS who train fighters. There is such an experience.

            Good luck.
            drinks
    3. Hleb
      Hleb 11 June 2013 15: 37
      +1
      Interesting sounds-specialized unit for special purposes :)
      1. Mr. Truth
        Mr. Truth 11 June 2013 16: 04
        0
        Well, yes, like "butter". But in another way, somehow ...
        Specialized, meant by theater of war and conditions, Arctic special forces, Mountain special forces.
  15. Rus86
    Rus86 11 June 2013 14: 55
    +3
    Cartridge, very informative and interesting. The article intrigued the title. About comments it is much more useful whether they seemed.
  16. Andrew
    Andrew 11 June 2013 17: 48
    +1
    In fact, according to the documents and the names, these brigades are neither related to intelligence nor special forces, but as it was correctly noted above, this ISBR (r) i.e. mountain infantry brigade. In service with BMP, MTLB, etc. except tanks. In the new orders of light brigade. And the 33th brigade was transferred from Dagestan to Maykop, and no work was being done to replace the former 131th Motorized Rifle Brigade due to the lack of necessary training grounds, but in fact, as I think, because of the conflict with the locals and the stupid location of the town in the saddle, everything’s like on the palm.
    1. tungus-meteorit
      tungus-meteorit 11 June 2013 18: 15
      +1
      Yes, 33 brigades were transferred to Maykop, and one battalion (training) was transferred to Vladikavkaz. And in Dagestan in their place now vevesniks are sitting.
  17. APASUS
    APASUS 11 June 2013 18: 16
    +1
    We in Karachay-Cherkessia trained 25 years ago, just on the Marukh pass.
    It is now that they built a special forces base, and before that there was a simple unit with military builders of military unit 55114.
    The barracks there were fabulous, when you walk along the take-off, the walls stagger, and in the winter the blanket could freeze to the floor. This is where the barracks were allocated to us there - we probably went over it in 4 months, otherwise we would have died.
  18. old man54
    old man54 12 June 2013 08: 25
    +2
    the article is interesting, necessary, what a storm of emotions it caused. Put "+". not with all is publicized with the author.
    In addition, on the territory of the town there is also a large sports hall in which there is only Closed climbing wall in the country. On it, fighters practice mountain climbing skills.

    Strange, but only in Krasnoyarsk 3 of them seem (if not more already), closed exactly! Something overdid here. Anyway, there is nothing better than real rocks for training, and a rock-dolm is like a woman, but rubber, from a sex shop.
  19. The comment was deleted.
  20. OCD
    OCD 19 June 2013 17: 04
    0
    In the USSR there were several military schools where they taught mountain training. One of them was in Ashgabat, the other in Baku - now it is abroad. The Combined Arms Higher Command School and the Ministry of Internal Affairs School in Vladikavkaz are closed. There are no other schools where mountain training was taught in Russia. Where do officers come from who know how to conduct combat operations in the highlands. And leave climbing alone. Learning to climb mountains is much easier than fighting in them. In the Great Patriotic War, in the most difficult moments, the chances of having rangers in reserve never used them. It was too expensive to prepare a mountain shooter and then plug holes in it.
  21. albanech
    albanech 14 August 2013 16: 49
    0
    Glory to the special forces!