Military Review

Otto Skorzeny: “Why didn’t we take Moscow?”

247
German memoirs explain what caused the Wehrmacht's defeat in the war.


Otto Skorzeny: “Why didn’t we take Moscow?”

"An unpleasant surprise". With the T-34, the Germans had to fight with gasoline bottles, like ours in films. Photo O. Buzin


Every spring, when Victory Day is approaching, television begins to show feature films dedicated to the Great Patriotic War. Hand on heart: most of them simply speculate on a great topic. It is necessary to push a man in the street who belches in front of the TV with a bottle of beer in his hand, something “interesting”, pleasant for his little eyes, settled from the peaceful life. So there are serials like “Fighters”, the main intrigue of which is who climbs under the skirt of a female pilot: “bad” political officer or “good” son of a repressed pre-revolutionary aristocrat with a volume of Goethe in German under his arm played by actor Dyuzheva? Those who did not fight, or even those who did not serve, tell others who did not fight, that war is very interesting and erotic. Even, they say, there is a time to read the Russian soldier Goethe. Frankly, I turn up from such films. They are immoral and deceitful. False as an American Pearl Harbor. Because the same cliches are made - war and girls. And nothing like these films add to the answer to the question: why did our grandfathers then win? After all, the Germans were so organized, so well armed, and had such excellent command that any “realist” could only surrender. How Czechoslovakia surrendered (without a fight!), Poland (almost without fighting), France (easily and pleasantly - as a Parisian prostitute “surrenders” to a client), as well as Belgium, Denmark, Norway, Yugoslavia, Greece ...

But in the East it didn’t work out - everything went awry and ended for some reason not in Moscow, but in Berlin. Where it started.

It seems to me that the memoirs of the most publicized "commandos" and "super-saboteurs" - Obersturmbannführer SS Otto Skorzeny will help clarify this issue somewhat. The same - the liberator of Mussolini and the kidnapper of Horthy, a hunter for Tito, and at the same time a man who sniffed gunpowder precisely in the offensive campaign of 1941 in Russia. As part of the SS division "Reich", which was part of tank Guderian's group.


Next to Hitler. Skorzeny always idolized the Fuhrer


CLEANING 1937-GO STRENGTHEN THE RED ARMY. Otto Skorzeny attacked through Brest and Yelnya, participated in the encirclement of the troops of the South-Western Front in Ukraine, admired through binoculars at the distant domes of Moscow. But so it did not hit. And the whole life of a retired obershurtmbanführer was tormented by the question: why didn’t they take Moscow anyway? After all, they wanted to. And prepared. And they were great with themselves: Skorzeny describes with a sense of deep satisfaction how he made a full-figured 12-kilometer march and shot almost without a miss. But life had to end in faraway Spain - in exile, running from post-war German justice, poisoning it with the German pedantry of “denacification”, as the cockroach housewife poisons. It's a shame!

Memoirs of Skorzeny in Ukraine never translated. In Russia - only with bills. Basically those episodes where it comes to special operations. The Russian version of the memoir begins from the moment when Skorzeny, after his adventures near Moscow, enters the hospital. But in the original it is preceded by more 150 pages. About how people went to Moscow and why, according to the author, they still suffered embarrassment.

One of the reasons for the defeat of the Germans, according to the SS veteran, was the hidden sabotage among the German generals: “In the sanctuary of the old Prussian system - the General Staff of the ground forces - a small group of generals still fluctuated between tradition and innovation, some departed with privileges ... People like Beck and his successor Halder ... it was hard to obey a man whom some called the "Czech Corporal". Skorzeny devotes a lot of attention to the conspiracy of the military and believes that it existed in the form of a secret opposition to the Führer long before 1944.

As an example to Hitler, the author of the memoirs puts Stalin and 1937 a year: “The giant purge among the military, carried out after the same mass shootings among politicians, misled not only Heydrich and Schellenberg. Our political intelligence was convinced that we had achieved decisive success, and Hitler was of the same opinion. However, the Red Army, contrary to the general opinion, was not weakened, but strengthened ... The posts of repressed commanders of armies, corps, divisions, brigades, regiments and battalions were occupied by young officers - ideological communists. And the conclusion: “After the total, terrible purging of 1937, a new, political Russian army appeared, capable of resisting the fiercest battles. Russian generals carried out orders, and did not engage in conspiracies and betrayal, as often happened at our highest positions. ”

One cannot but agree with this. Unlike Hitler, Stalin created a system completely subordinate to him. Therefore, in the autumn of 1941, when the Germans were standing near Moscow, there was no generals' conspiracy in the Red Army. And in the Wehrmacht in three years was. Although to Berlin at that time was much further. It is impossible to imagine that Stalin would be blown up by someone from “his own” in the Kremlin, as Colonel Stauffenberg tried to do in Wolfsan with the adored Führer.


Skorzeny: "Our losses exceeded 75 percent"


ABVER DID NOT REPORT ANYTHING IMPORTANT. “In war,” writes Otto Skorzeny, “there is another little-known, but often decisive aspect - a secret one. I am talking about events taking place far from the battlefields, but having a very large influence on the course of the war - they entailed enormous losses of equipment, deprivation and death of hundreds of thousands of European soldiers ... More than any other, the Second World War was a war of intrigue " .

Skorzeny directly suspects the head of the German military intelligence, Admiral Canaris, in secret work for the British. It was Canaris who convinced Hitler in the summer of 1940 of the year that landing in Britain was impossible: “On July 7, he sent Keitel a secret report in which he reported that the Germans landing in England were expecting 2 first-line divisions and 19 reserve divisions. The British at that time had only one unit ready for battle - the 3 Division of General Montgomery. The General remembers this in his memoirs ... From the very beginning of the war and at the crucial moments, Canaris acted as the most formidable opponent of Germany. ”

If Hitler had known then about the misinformation that his intelligence chief had shoved him, Britain would have been crushed. And in the summer of 1941, Hitler would have fought a war not on two fronts, but only on one — Eastern. Agree, the chances of taking Moscow in this case, he would have been much higher. “I talked to Canaris three or four times,” Skorzeny recalled, “and he did not impress me as a tactful or exceptionally intelligent person, as some people write about him. He never spoke directly, was cunning and incomprehensible, and this is not the same thing. ” And be that as it may, "The Abwehr never told the OKW anything really important or significant."

"WE DID NOT KNOW". This is one of the most frequent complaints of the great saboteur: “We did not know that the Russians in the war with Finland did not use the best soldiers and outdated equipment. We did not realize that their hard-won victory over the brave Finnish army was only a bluff. It is about concealing a huge force capable of attacking and defending, about which Canaris, the head of intelligence of the Wehrmacht, had to at least know something. ”

Like everyone else, Skorzeny was struck by the "gorgeous T-34." The Germans also had to rush to these tanks with bottles filled with gasoline. In the films, such an episode is characteristic of the depiction of the heroism of a Soviet soldier who was forced to fight almost with his bare hands. But in reality it happened and vice versa. Moreover, regularly: “German anti-tank guns, which easily hit tanks such as T-26 and BT, were powerless against the new T-34, which suddenly appeared from uncompressed wheat and rye. Then our soldiers had to attack them with the help of “Molotov cocktails” - ordinary bottles with gasoline with a lit ignition cord instead of a cork. If the bottle hit the steel plate that protected the engine, the tank caught fire ... “Faust-cartridges” appeared much later, therefore, at the beginning of the campaign, some Russian tanks were held back by direct fire only by our heavy artillery. ”

In other words, the entire Reich anti-tank artillery proved useless against the new Russian tank. It could only be held by heavy cannons. But no less impressed by the memoirist, were the engineer units of the Red Army and their equipment - it made it possible to build a 60-meter bridge, making it possible to transport vehicles to 60 tons by weight! Wehrmacht did not possess such a technique.

TECHNICAL DIFFERENCE. The entire calculation of the German offensive doctrine was based on the high mobility of the motorized units. But motors require spare parts and constant maintenance. And with this in the German army there was no order. Interfered with the different types of cars in one unit. “In the 1941 year,” Skorzeny complains from his own experience of service in the Reich division, “every German car company continued to produce different models of its brand just like before the war. A large number of models did not allow to create an appropriate stock of spare parts. In motorized divisions there were approximately 2 thousands of vehicles, sometimes 50 of various types and models, although 10 — 18 would be enough. In addition, our artillery regiment had more than 200 trucks represented by 15 models. In the rain, in the mud or in the cold, even the best specialist could not provide quality repairs. ”


Otto skorzeny


And here is the result. Just outside Moscow: “We continued to move forward on 2 December and were able to occupy Nikolaev, located in 15 km from Moscow — during clear sunny weather I saw binoculars from the domes of Moscow churches. Our batteries fired on the outskirts of the capital, but we no longer had gun tractors. ” If the guns are still there, and the “all out” tractors, it means that the German “supertechnik” had to be left on the road due to breakdowns. And in the hands of heavy guns do not drag.

The German army approached Moscow completely exhausted: “The 19 of October began torrential rains, and the Army Group Center was stuck in the mud for three days ... The picture was terrible: a column of equipment stretched for hundreds of kilometers, where thousands of cars were stuck in mud sometimes on the hood. Not enough gasoline and ammunition. Provision, on average 200 tons per division, was delivered by air. Three invaluable weeks and a huge amount of material resources were lost ... At the cost of hard labor and hard labor, we managed to build 15 kilometers of logs from the logs ... We dreamed that we could quickly get colder. ”

But when frost struck 6 on 7 on November, and the division in which Skorzeny served served ammunition, fuel, some food and cigarettes, it turned out that there was no winter oil for engines and weapons - engines start problematic. Instead of winter uniforms, sand-colored kits intended for the African corps and equipment painted in the same light tones fell into the troops. Meanwhile, the frost reached 20 and even 30 degrees. With sincere amazement, the brave SS man describes the winter outfit of Soviet soldiers - fur coats and fur boots: “An unpleasant surprise - for Borodino we first had to fight with the Siberians. They are tall, excellent soldiers, well armed; they are dressed in wide fur sheepskin coats and hats, and on their feet are fur boots. ” It was only from the captured Russian that the Germans learned that the shoes in winter should be a little spacious so that the foot did not freeze: “Having carefully studied the equipment of the courageous Siberians captured under Borodino, we learned that, for example, if there are no felt boots, then leather boots should not be shod and, the main thing, they should be free, not to press a foot. This was known to all skiers, but not to our specialists in clothing services. Almost all of us wore fur boots, taken from the dead Russian soldiers. ”

EXCELLENT RUSSIAN EXPLORATION. Almost the main reason for the defeat of the German army, Skorzeny considers great Russian intelligence. The Red Orchestra - a spy network in Europe, most often from committed anti-Nazis - allowed the Soviet General Staff to have information about the strategic intentions of the Germans. He also recalls the superagent Richard Sorge, thanks to whose information that Japan would not enter the war, 40 divisions deployed from the Far East appeared near Moscow.


Under Moscow. The counteroffensive of the Siberian divisions redeployed from the Far East became possible thanks to Richard Sorge.


“The Reich's strategy for war was better,” Skorzeny said, “our generals had a stronger imagination. However, from the ordinary soldier to the commander of the company, the Russians were equal to us - courageous, resourceful, gifted masking agents. They fiercely resisted and were always ready to sacrifice their lives ... The Russian officers, from the division commander and below, were younger and more determined than ours. From October 9 to 5, the Reich Division, 10-Tank Division and other parts of the 16-Tank Corps lost 40 percent of their regular staff. After six days, when our positions were attacked by the newly arrived Siberian divisions, our losses exceeded 75 percent. ”

Here is the answer to the question why the Germans did not take Moscow? They just knocked out. Himself Skorzeny no longer fought at the front. As a stupid man, he realized that the chances of surviving in this meat grinder are minimal, and he took the opportunity to go to the service in the SS commando unit. But he was no longer attracted to the front line - to steal dictators is much nicer and safer than to face Siberians in boots, fighting with the support of T-34 and the best intelligence in the world.
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  1. zambo
    zambo 10 June 2013 08: 28
    127
    True from the lips of a courageous enemy (Germany) is much better than a sweet lie from the lips of a cowardly ally (England, USA.
    1. Nicholas C.
      Nicholas C. 10 June 2013 10: 12
      42
      It is worth noting that articles of such an interesting Ukrainian author as Oles Buzin began to appear more often on the site. This is definitely a decoration.

      And Skorzeny is largely wrong, somewhere right. Let the enemies whine. And this one is a broken enemy.
      1. Draz
        Draz 10 June 2013 10: 34
        51
        The fact of the matter is that this is his personal opinion, of a person, specialist, saboteur.
        No politics and other husks.
        1. Bosk
          Bosk 10 June 2013 20: 24
          26
          If they had taken Moscow, then all of its minuses would quickly be transformed into heroic advantages. He forgot to tell the most important truth ... Our grandfathers fought and died for their homeland, but they are for someone else's ...
          1. AntonR7
            AntonR7 10 June 2013 21: 59
            11
            He said correctly, but I’ll correct them, too, they fought for their homeland only on a foreign land.
          2. Vovka levka
            Vovka levka 10 June 2013 23: 12
            -3
            Quote: Bosk
            If they had taken Moscow, then all of its minuses would quickly be transformed into heroic advantages. He forgot to tell the most important truth ... Our grandfathers fought and died for their homeland, but they are for someone else's ...

            It is surprising that they even reached Moscow.
          3. Draz
            Draz 12 June 2013 02: 45
            +3
            History does not tolerate the subjunctive mood.
      2. Sevastopol
        Sevastopol 10 June 2013 11: 19
        18
        The author is really interesting. Oles Buzin adheres to the view of the trinity of the Russian people (“Little Russians, Belarusians and Great Russians”), and therefore calls himself both Ukrainian and Russian. Often in Sevastopol (or already lives here even).
      3. Horde
        Horde 10 June 2013 18: 51
        12
        Quote: Nikolay S.
        It is worth noting that articles of such an interesting Ukrainian author as Oles Buzin began to appear more often on the site. This is definitely a decoration.

        And Skorzeny is largely wrong, somewhere right. Let the enemies whine. And this one is a broken enemy.


        the fact of the matter is that all these German memoirists-historians do not give a completely objective picture of the battles and, in general, the meaning of these "writers" is not to tell the truth, but to carefully build a GLOBAL-WESTERN vision of all the processes that took place in those days.
        Perhaps only one thing is surprising that Skorzeny, in VIRTUE, spoke out on the positive side, the CLEANING of the army 37g. Contrary to the point of view of Western historians and our liberal-historical assessment of the events of 37g.
        The fact that the German generals sabotaged Hitler’s decisions is something new in assessing the outcome of World War II.
        But the MAIN THING Skorzeny again did not say how Germany Dared to attack the country STRATEGICALLY more powerful than even the whole conquered Europe? At the time the war began, the USSR had
        - POWERFUL EMERGING ECONOMY.
        -More tanks than Germany.
        -comparable number of aircraft.
        - HUGE mobilization reserves.
        and many other benefits.
        Hitler knew all this and must be 100% sure that Germany will be able to overcome these advantages of a dangerous enemy.
        Generally speaking, there is an answer to this BASIC QUESTION. This is a betrayal of the USSR Supreme General. Moreover, the execution of Pavlov and his headquarters who opened the Western Front
        DO NOT GIVE A VISION OF ALL THE COMPLETENESS AND SCALE OF THE CONSPIRATION.
        Skorzeny, who was involved in STRATEGIC DIVERSIONS, could not help but know what role the red generals will play during the beginning of the eastern campaign.
        1. pogis
          pogis 10 June 2013 19: 53
          30
          When Hitler was told how many tanks the USSR was releasing at the end of 1942, he simply stupidly started to laugh (did not believe)! 90% of the defense was located in the western part of the USSR by 1941. The Germans did not underestimate our administrative reserve, they did not even discuss the possibility of evacuating thousands of plants to the Urals during 10-30 days, and the beginning of the production of military products in 2-4 months !!!! This will never be repeated !!
          1. VADIMKRSK
            VADIMKRSK 12 June 2013 02: 02
            +9
            Hundreds of factories in Siberia. And after a couple of months they work !!!
          2. ostrovpan
            ostrovpan 12 June 2013 17: 57
            16
            Now this organization of work, logistics, and human endurance is simply amazing! Many thanks to that generation for the great victory !!!
            1. dropout
              dropout 12 June 2013 20: 32
              16
              Quote: ostrovpan
              this organization of work, logistics, and human endurance is amazing !!! Many thanks to that generation for the great victory !!!


              For some reason, they very rarely and not willingly recall that the whole gigantic work of evacuating plants from west to east and deploying to a new place was personally led by Lavrenty Pavlovich.
              1. alauda1038
                alauda1038 13 June 2013 14: 40
                +4
                the introduction of the latest developments the same merit I will add that in the initial period of the war 30 60 minutes were allotted for the capture and destruction of frontier posts. some outposts remained surrounded for up to 7 days, because the border troops obeyed L.P. Beria and the vaunted Brandenburg were worn out so that it ceased to be a real force
                1. Danash I
                  Danash I 13 June 2013 19: 37
                  +1
                  Brandenburg was only a battalion at the beginning of the war. And, please, correct, in my opinion, an incomplete composition. Deployed to the regiment much later.
              2. shasherin_pavel
                shasherin_pavel 10 May 2014 08: 44
                0
                Koganovich, the Minister of Railways at that time, personally traveled along the entire route Siberia Moscow and personally shot all those who showed unwillingness to work on the front-line. I think that attributing merit to someone alone is wrong, but the management established is 90% success.
        2. Setrac
          Setrac 10 June 2013 23: 25
          +2
          Quote: Horde
          But the MAIN THING Skorzeny again did not say how Germany Dared to attack the country STRATEGICALLY more powerful than even the whole conquered Europe? At the time the war began, the USSR had

          Mathematics is our everything!
          Quote: Horde
          - POWERFUL EMERGING ECONOMY.

          The industry of the Third Reich exceeded the industry of the USSR several times.
          Quote: Horde
          -More tanks than Germany.

          Quote: Horde
          -comparable number of aircraft.

          With all due respect to tanks and aircraft, WWII’s main weapon is artillery, who won more guns, more shell production, and powerful logistics to deliver the shells to the front line.
          Quote: Horde
          - HUGE mobilization reserves.

          The population of the Third Reich exceeded the population of the USSR by more than one and a half times.
          Quote: Horde
          and many other benefits.

          I'm shy to ask which ones?
          1. Horde
            Horde 10 June 2013 23: 59
            +4
            The industry of the Third Reich exceeded the industry of the USSR several times.


            I'm shy to ask which ones?

            do not be shy

            for all the main strategic materials, except for aluminum, the USSR was either at the German level, or cotton, food, oil production, strategic materials were higher than Germany. Therefore, the lot of Nemetchina was only a blitzkrieg.

            With all due respect to tanks and aircraft, WWII’s main weapon is artillery, who won more guns, more shell production, and powerful logistics to deliver the shells to the front line.


            artillery, of course, "the god of war," as Stalin said, but WWII was a "battle of motors" and that war when TANKS decided everything. By the way, Russian artillery has always been the forefront.

            The population of the Third Reich exceeded the population of the USSR by more than one and a half times.


            the population of 3 Reich on 41g 90 mil.
            the population of the USSR at 41g 196 mil.
            what did you think?
            1. Setrac
              Setrac 11 June 2013 00: 11
              +1
              Quote: Horde
              for all the main strategic materials, except for aluminum, the USSR was either at the German level, or cotton, food, oil production, strategic materials were higher than Germany. Therefore, the lot of Nemetchina was only a blitzkrieg.

              Are we talking about industry, or about the extractive industry?
              Quote: Horde
              artillery, of course, "the god of war," as Stalin said, but WWII was a "battle of motors" and that war when TANKS decided everything. By the way, Russian artillery has always been the forefront.

              The war of engines, and in artillery, the war of motors, is there a big difference from a railway station being transported by a supply vehicle or a truck, or will you say that the USSR surpassed the Third Reich?
              Quote: Horde
              the population of 3 Reich on 41g 90 mil.
              the population of the USSR at 41g 196 mil.
              what did you think?

              I counted the population of Germany - 90 million, the population of the Third Reich - Germany + occupied territories - somewhere around 250 million, plus allies who themselves did not fight (they fought to a lesser extent than Germany), but actively worked for the Wehrmacht.
              1. Horde
                Horde 11 June 2013 15: 20
                +4
                Are we talking about industry, or about the extractive industry?


                but how are you going to distinguish this?
                for example, nickel smelting of the third Reich had a deficiency in this component of ARMOR STEEL for tanks, therefore OUR armor was better not so fragile, the German heavier, and also when the projectile hit internal fragments of armor hit the crew well, and ours was better.

                The war of engines, and in artillery, the war of motors, is there a big difference from a railway station being transported by a supply vehicle or a truck, or will you say that the USSR surpassed the Third Reich?


                Do you know that the BASIC draft force for the transportation of a significant part of all goods in Germany was horse traction? Ours, respectively, also, therefore, DELIVERY of ammunition and other military supplies to the battlefields is the matter of CONTROL and ORGANIZATION by the troops that in the first years of the war Nemechina had better, when the Bagration operation was being prepared, the scale of support, speed, secrecy were so roughly indicative which was not for the WHOLE HISTORY of the wars of mankind. The delivery of ammunition was carried out for the most part by railway, directly to the parts - by road.

                or will you argue that the Third Reich also surpassed the USSR in automobiles?


                In the development of the automotive industry, Germany was 25 years ahead of Russia, therefore the fact that the USSR was able to create the automobile industry in 10 years and set up the production of cars and as a result was able to achieve the most large-scale military operations is a merit of OUR PEOPLE.

                I counted the population of Germany - 90 million, the population of the Third Reich - Germany + occupied territories - somewhere around 250 million, plus allies who themselves did not fight (they fought to a lesser extent than Germany), but actively worked for the Wehrmacht.


                I am also surprised that all of Europe helped the Germans to fight, even the Jews "the most affected", but VICTORY was ours!
                1. Setrac
                  Setrac 11 June 2013 16: 02
                  +3
                  Quote: Horde
                  I am also surprised that all of Europe helped the Germans to fight, even the Jews "the most affected", but VICTORY was ours!

                  And I mean, the Third Reich excelled the USSR in everything but one, people in the USSR were better, as World War II showed.
                  1. shasherin_pavel
                    shasherin_pavel 10 May 2014 09: 05
                    0
                    Quote: Setrac
                    The Third Reich excelled the USSR in everything

                    T-34, KV-1, KV-2. RS-82-48, RS-13. IL-2. IS steam locomotives, Felix Dzerzhinsky "FD", 37mm anti-tank gun produced under license, has been upgraded to 45mm. Dektyarev assault rifle, SVT. ABC. in 41 year PPSh. Radiomines, which the Germans even got their hands on, could not master and adopt, the Severok radios, for the first time in the world working on decimeter waves. This is not a complete list of what the Germans could not come up with.
                    The Germans: A stoton press for forging crankshafts, sold to the USSR, everything is forged on it (absolutely all crankshafts of V-2 engines, for T-34, KV and IS). In 1940, a high-pressure cylinder burst from the press, a new one was ordered in Germany but the war began. In 45, a press cylinder was discovered at a warehouse in Germany. The Germans did not find use for him throughout the war. Our workers restored the cylinder and it worked throughout the war. Carousel machines for the production of shoulder straps of tank towers, and towers of naval guns, sold under a license from the USSR. How else were the Germans superior in armaments?
            2. cruisetur
              cruisetur 16 June 2013 11: 53
              +1
              I somehow accidentally saw a document-summary of German losses: the losses are colossal - almost comparable to ours at the beginning of the war. I do not believe that the Germans died so few. This is clearly stated Western propaganda. And those victims that ALL such small European countries like Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Belgium and others - they all happened 90% on the eastern front, fighting against the US (and in propaganda reports they look like POOR PEACEFULS). So if it were not for the conspiracy of our generals (and he unfortunately, not all geeks were shot in 1937-39), then even with poor weapons and the organization of our soldiers, the Germans would have managed to step no further than the Dnieper) At the expense of the rapid loss of Western Ukraine - almost 900 Jews officially lived there (only registered) .And how many mixed families ??? ... In general, sheer betrayal ... I do not know for what Holocaust everyone is talking, when the total number of Jews in the Wehrmacht reached more than 000. Only near Moscow, 150 were captured 000 Jews ... And by the way, about ideology: Indeed, the population of Germany is almost 9500 million people, and in the seventies a book is published, God forbid, memory - STURMFOGEL WITHOUT SWASTIKA. So, there (and note this in the USSR where the FALLEN HEROES were REVIEWED) write that the population of Germany reached 90 million people, which suggests that after Stalin there was no man devoted to RUSSIA (Brezhnev is just a pitiful shadow of RUSSIAN CHARACTER), and the real VICTORIES OF OUR PEOPLE at the beginning of the war, as well as blows to him in back (from "svoh") they hide from us. And such underestimated figures belittle and devalue OUR VICTORY
          2. VADIMKRSK
            VADIMKRSK 12 June 2013 02: 09
            +1
            The advantage is SOLDIER behind the cannon ... Or with a rifle. Or with a knife. Or with your bare hands.
        3. alauda1038
          alauda1038 13 June 2013 14: 29
          +2
          the initial stage of the Second World War just points to this, if you dig further, remember the raids of the Krymchaks and Tatars on slaves having an army that was not badly equipped at that time, the war with them was not entirely successful, which indicates a clear betrayal of part of the high command and their obvious interest in the arrival of Peter 1 after the removal from command of the entire military old elite, the army was able to not only effectively resist well and regularly beat the adversary, there are many similar examples in Russian military history
        4. Glory333
          Glory333 15 September 2013 12: 31
          0
          Why did Germany dare to attack the USSR? Because German intelligence led by British agent Canaris misinformed the German leadership by supplying false information about the weakness of the USSR. About England, it was the other way around: as Skorzeny writes, German intelligence reported on the nonexistent 19 English divisions supposedly ready to meet the German invasion.
          1. shasherin_pavel
            shasherin_pavel 10 May 2014 09: 10
            0
            Do not forget that the population of all the British colonies and Britain itself exceeded 400 million. And the troops of Great Britain were scattered all over the globe, and at sea Great Britain had a definite advantage over Germany.
      4. Starina_hank
        Starina_hank 13 June 2013 17: 17
        +1
        For one beaten they give two not beaten!
      5. SSR
        SSR 16 June 2013 22: 34
        +1
        Quote: Nikolai S.
        And Skorzeny is largely wrong, somewhere right.

        Usually we don’t take anything unflattering for something wrong ....
        “An unpleasant surprise - near Borodino we first had to fight with the Siberians. These are tall, excellent soldiers, well armed; they are dressed in wide sheepskin coats and hats, and fur boots on their feet. ” Only from captured Russian Germans did the Germans know that the shoes should be a little spacious in winter so that the foot would not freeze: “Having carefully studied the equipment of the brave Siberians captured near Borodino, we learned that, for example, if there are no felt boots, then leather boots should not be slipped and, most importantly, they should be free, not press the feet.

        The farther from "bohemia" and "intelligentsia" and even farther from the capital ... the more ......... People.
    2. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 10 June 2013 13: 11
      33
      Yes, because we defended our homeland ... and my grandfather, seeing the villages burned, crushed them live with the tracks of his KV, and reached Pilau (Baltiysk) and my son served in the Navy in Baltiysk, and perhaps sat on the same stone by the sea, where my grandfather-great-grandfather smoked it after the fight ... proud of my grandfather.
      1. bogdan
        bogdan 10 June 2013 14: 09
        16
        When they say that the Germans were overwhelmed with meat, I want to answer - but our "meat" turned out to be stronger than their armor!
        1. Starina_hank
          Starina_hank 13 June 2013 17: 33
          +1
          Fight not by number, but by reduction!
          Unfortunately, the poor training of young generals and officers brought to naught all the numerical superiority in tanks and aircraft!
    3. vezunchik
      vezunchik 10 June 2013 14: 34
      16
      In Germany, the same mess as Unas. But in the US as well!
      I am glad that finally they began to tell the truth! And then all the films about the Second World War of the last 15 years are not possible to watch. It seems that they are cooked in Hollywood!
      1. Cesar_Xnumx
        Cesar_Xnumx 10 June 2013 17: 12
        13
        If you are talking about Nikita Besogon’s films, then yes. There are normal ones too. At least the same Brest Fortress.
        1. klinok1
          klinok1 10 June 2013 20: 23
          10
          the best two films about the war without any love and other tinsel - "They fought for the Motherland" and "In August 44th ..."
          1. Starina_hank
            Starina_hank 13 June 2013 17: 37
            +5
            "The Living and the Dead", "Toropedians", "War as in War".
            IMHO: your films are slightly weaker.
            1. Alex
              Alex 15 September 2013 00: 24
              +2
              And also - "Hot Snow", "Only old men go to battle" ...

              I want to take off my hat to the directors and screenwriters who brought the truth about those who brought us the Victory.

              Eternal glory to the heroes!
              Eternal memory to the lost!
              Eternal gratitude to those who have preserved all this and passed it on to us, the living!

              In memory of the fallen - we will be worthy!
          2. shasherin_pavel
            shasherin_pavel 10 May 2014 09: 14
            0
            She defended her homeland. Rainbow. The fate of a soldier. Even the "Communist" who was given a standing ovation in Italy and Paris.
        2. Alex
          Alex 15 September 2013 00: 20
          +2
          Quote: Cesar_001 (1)
          At least the same Brest Fortress.

          Well, yes. I heard a lot, but managed to see only in Belarus. Sometimes a shiver makes its way ...
          And sometimes I think: could I be like this? I want to believe that I could ...

          Thanks to all those thanks to whom I live today ...
      2. cruisetur
        cruisetur 16 June 2013 12: 02
        +1
        !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! STUPID !!!!!!!!!!!! They are really being prepared by Hollywood, only ZHYDOROSSIYSKIY !!!!!!!!!!!!! ... You look at these acting faces !!!!!!! YOU WILL ALSO FIND ONE THERE so that there is no impurity of Zhidovskaya blood. You look at these FISH MUZZLES, at their GENETICS, at their structure of teeth, eyes, ears, jaws, at their HAIRY !!!!!!!!
    4. LION
      LION 10 June 2013 20: 55
      +7
      This is not true, but again excuses and the search for the extreme (Hitler, Beck (Bock), Halder, etc.). Again, someone is to blame and they were betrayed. Otherwise we would be Russians, wow. Well, yes. The Russians had the T34. Wow, they are villains, practically cheaters. The "courageous" enemy did not expect to meet fierce resistance, heroism and self-sacrifice of all Soviet people. And what a sin to hide, Germany simply did not have the resources for such a war.
    5. honest jew
      honest jew 11 June 2013 01: 13
      +4
      I respect Skorzeny real, the first man who was not afraid to recognize the virtues of his enemy !!!
      1. LION
        LION 14 June 2013 18: 19
        +2
        I, I apologize to you Honest Jew, but an aspen stake on the grave of all SSovtsy and "real men". Don't romanticize the Wehrmacht and the SS. Do not divide them into those who fought and those who, in the Sonderkommandos in the villages, set sheds with children on fire, hung and shot hostages from the civilian population, in concentration camps they strangled people with gases.
        1. Guhbers
          Guhbers 15 June 2013 11: 08
          0
          Quote: LION
          Do not divide them into those who fought and those who burned, hung and shot hostages from civilians in the sonderkommandy in the villages with children, strangled people in concentration camps with gases.
          Why not share it !? What, everyone needs to be rowed under one comb? What nonsense !? By such conclusions, maybe you and ALL of our guys who fought in Chechnya will be called killers of civilians and executioners of prisoners, maniacs cutting ears? After all, there were such cases, but because of such idiots it is impossible to talk about ALL in the same vein! And in your opinion it turns out that you can.
          1. cruisetur
            cruisetur 16 June 2013 12: 42
            0
            Many of the Germans (real) shot themselves when on June 20-21 they learned that they were going to fight against Russia. That's what they were REAL. Many of the hesitant Germans went to fight and shot at our people only on orders. But all the same, in fact, AND KILLED, so bleach, do not bleach, but still an ENEMY !!!!! But the overwhelming majority of Germans fought against us willingly, with pleasure and special zeal (until they began to get hit in the face). Therefore, LEVA is RIGHT - THERE IS Nothing to share! !! (In my family, by my father, by my mother and by my stepfather (large families) EVERYONE Fought on our side and everyone from the first months of the war (July, August, September) Four died in 43-44. The rest of those who survived told about German "Kindness" and loyalnosti. Of course, you can program them, but only with reservations - a VERY EVIL ENEMY, EVIL ENEMY, and just an ENEMY. And mind you: not a single word is a GOOD ENEMY (it sounds like !!) ... Chechnya, then even if the Russian guys put ALL "PEACEFUL" inhabitants there, the overwhelming majority of white people in the former SSS R they would bow down in the legs as the LIBERATORS FROM THE BLACK PLAGUE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
          2. Alex
            Alex 15 September 2013 00: 42
            +2
            Quote: Guhbers
            Quote: LION
            Do not divide them into those who fought and those who burned, hung and shot hostages from civilians in the sonderkommandy in the villages with children, strangled people in concentration camps with gases.


            Why not share it !? What, everyone needs to be rowed under one comb? What nonsense !?


            War is a terrible thing. She poses a dilemma for every person: how to behave? The simplest thing is to do what you want, the war will write everything off. Second, try to be human. What does it mean? And it's simple: if you can’t kill, don’t kill. Who managed to solve it for himself is his honor and praise. Who could not - punishment will overtake him, wherever he is saved.

            SS is not a charitable organization or a structure, wherever you want - you don’t want, but work. They were accepted there with strict selection, with characteristics, with beliefs and devotion. Skorzeny’s human qualities are a separate story, I don’t even want to discuss it. But the opinion of such an inveterate (I would even say - an elite Nazi man on the reasons for the defeat in the war, which seemed to them a quick and easy walk - in my opinion, deserves attention. And if his memories are not particularly bravura, then our grandfathers and great-grandfathers set the heat fellow-people from the Third Reich.

            And at the same time, an interesting fact is that he mainly talks about internal problems. Either this is true, or is it an attempt to write off everything on the "fifth column" - God is his judge. But in any case, getting involved in a war, having neither the resources necessary for the entire period of the war, nor equipment adapted to conduct hostilities in all weather conditions of this theater of military operations, nor reliable intelligence data on the strategic capabilities of the enemy is by no means evidence of high strategic talents.
      2. cruisetur
        cruisetur 16 June 2013 12: 11
        0
        Honest Jew? !!! ... Sounds like a VITETARIAN Mite
    6. Apologet.Ru
      Apologet.Ru 11 June 2013 22: 03
      10
      Here is an article in the newspaper about my grandfather Kaydalov Nikolai Yakovlevich, who started the war as a private and ended it as a captain (!), A military intelligence officer - "... was born in the village of Yugan, Surgut region. Together with his father, he went hunting when he was still very young. 5 classes at the Surgut school, became a professional hunter. On July 10, 1941, Kaidalov was drafted into the active army. In November 1941, he was given the first combat mission - to get the “tongue.” Nikolai Yakovlevich himself told in the “Stalin tribune” as follows: “A lot I made mistakes. We were all excited then. I grappled hand-to-hand with one long, healthy German. On the way back, we walked without being careful of the bullets lying next to us, and I was wounded. It's good that the winners are not judged. The German was by the rank of chief lieutenant. He gave very valuable testimony, and I was awarded the Order of the Red Banner. But I took into account the lessons of my first sortie. "More cunning in fighting the enemy," I thought then.
      The next time, having received a similar task, Kaidalov chose a snowy stormy night for work. Taking with him an unloaded grenade, with his scouts he crept closer to the enemies and, shouting, "Hands up" - threw a grenade into the bunker. The Germans quickly lay down, fearing an explosion. Soviet scouts ran up to the enemies, not wasting a second, and without a single shot took them alive, and even a captured machine gun to boot. For this operation, Sergeant Major Kaidalov received the 2nd award, the Order of the Red Star. The command sent him to study as a paratrooper-paratrooper in the front-line training regiment.
      Learned a lot, learned a lot during this war Kaidalov. On his 6th battle account -109 killed Germans, he himself was wounded 7 times, received 8 awards: the Order of the Red Banner, 2 Orders of the Red Star, 2 Orders of the Patriotic War of the 1st and 2nd degrees, medals "3a Defense of Moscow", " For the capture of Danzig "," 3a victory over Germany. "
      And who is this Skorzeny compared to my grandfather? I think that Skorzeny was lucky near Moscow, unlike that lieutenant that did not meet with him ...
      1. baboon
        baboon 12 June 2013 10: 49
        +1
        my grandfather was also a scout
      2. Starina_hank
        Starina_hank 13 June 2013 17: 48
        +1
        Medal "For the capture of Konigsberg".
        Everyone had their own war
        1. dmit-xnumx
          dmit-xnumx 13 June 2013 21: 24
          +6
          My grandfather could not serve as a disabled person, without a leg, but put a fighter on the Army for his savings, for which he received a thankful telegram signed by Stalin, my father ended the war in Belarus (battery commander), my uncle, my father’s elder brother, went missing because he went to war before my father, and his father, to get to the war, attributed himself an extra year. Until the seventies I lived with my parents, and very, very often the war got my father in a dream, and all of us, my mother, my younger sister and I, woke up from his cries and groans. Now I called him (we live with him in different cities), he says, so far it’s true, sometimes already, rarely, but he fights. The terrible thing is war. A deep bow to them, who defended their Homeland, who gave their eternal memory to give their lives for Her!
          1. Alex
            Alex 15 September 2013 00: 56
            +2
            Probably, that is why we won because every real person (how not to remember Kholokhov!) In our country did not stand aside and did not wait "where the curve will take it." The Wehrmacht had never met such a war and such resistance anywhere in Europe, and they were not ready for such a turn of events under any circumstances. By this, Russia has been strong at all times. Sometimes it seems to me that the war with Germany would not stop as long as at least one Soviet (without determining nationality) person remained alive. At least one person who fought for his homeland.
      3. Alex
        Alex 15 September 2013 00: 51
        +2
        Here is an article in a newspaper about my grandfather Kaydalov Nikolay Yakovlevich


        Thanks for the information. I heard a little about the scout Kaydalov (thanks to the Internet), but I did not have to talk to his grandson. I bow my head before his exploits!
    7. German
      German 13 June 2013 12: 24
      +9
      in Afghanistan, mujahideen still respectfully speak of our soldiers and with contempt for mattresses and their ilk ....
  2. morpogr
    morpogr 10 June 2013 08: 33
    12
    Why this creation is still not translated. You need to know the tactics and mistakes, as well as the ideology of enemies. And it’s nice to read that we were better than them in this difficult time.
    1. unclevad
      unclevad 10 June 2013 16: 08
      +4
      In Soviet times, it downplayed the role of the CPSU, and now only fantasy action movies or ladies' glamor are used, regardless of the waste paper genre.
    2. hommer
      hommer 14 June 2013 12: 49
      -1
      Guderian G. Memoirs of a Soldier - A deep-rooted distrust of people in general, characteristic of his character, and of the General Staff and generals in particular, has now turned into hatred. He had previously assumed that people were deceiving him. He didn’t believe anyone.
      This is it about Hitler.
      I can’t imagine what would happen to the general, about whom Joseph Vissarionovich could only assume that he was deceiving him!
  3. Baron Wrangell
    Baron Wrangell 10 June 2013 08: 38
    27
    smiled! Skorzeny is, as they say today, the mass media advertised as a hero. But in some ways he is right. To fight with the Russians is dangerous for health.
    1. avt
      avt 10 June 2013 09: 16
      +6
      Quote: Baron Wrangel
      smiled! Skorzeny is, as they say, the hyped mass media

      Yes, he has a high-level self-PR. With the same Mussolini, the student prepared and directed the operation, and Skorzeny shot the film. laughing As for his generals, he doesn’t lie, and Canaris was still preparing to screw Adik together with the commander of the Reichswehr in the 33rd time, they were preparing an arrest, but they became late when that election was won by a known fact. And the assassination attempts, already quite voiced, were enough, moreover, with the participation of senior officers. Well, and as the chief of staff in the west sabotaged together Rommel opposition landing in Normandy - so it's even the Air Force in the dock. the film describes.
    2. Corsair
      Corsair 10 June 2013 11: 13
      42
      Quote: Baron Wrangel
      smiled! Skorzeny is, as they say today, the mass media advertised as a hero. But in some ways he is right. To fight with the Russians is dangerous for health.

      And we worked them out ...
      And about Skorzeny, who is HE against this person?
      Starinov Ilya Grigorievich
      1. Gari
        Gari 10 June 2013 16: 06
        19
        “After a total, terrible purge of 1937, a new, political Russian army appeared that could endure the most brutal battles. "Russian generals carried out orders, and did not engage in conspiracies and betrayal, as often happened in our highest posts."
        Unlike Hitler, Stalin created a system completely subordinate to him. Therefore, in the fall of 1941, when the Germans stood near Moscow, in the Red Army there was no conspiracy of generals
        That's all exactly the role of Comrade Stalin, even the enemy recognizes!
        1. Gari
          Gari 10 June 2013 16: 11
          15
          Although Stalin himself in the Great Victory considered the main role of the people - the Russian people and his famous toast:
          Comrades, let me raise another last toast.
          As a representative of our Soviet Government, I would like to raise a toast to the health of our Soviet people and, above all, the Russian people.
          I drink, above all, for the health of the Russian people because it is the most prominent nation of all the nations that make up the Soviet Union.
          I raise a toast to the health of the Russian people because they have earned in this war and earlier earned the title, if you like, of the leading force of our Soviet Union among all the peoples of our country.
          I raise a toast to the health of the Russian people, not only because they are the leading people, but also because they have common sense, general political common sense and patience.
          epopolitical common sense and patience.
          1. Gari
            Gari 10 June 2013 16: 12
            20
            But the Russian people did not agree to this, the Russian people did not compromise, they showed unlimited trust in our government. I repeat, we had mistakes, the first two years our army was forced to retreat, it turned out that they did not master the events, did not cope with the situation. However, the Russian people believed, endured, waited and hoped that we would cope with events.
            It is for this trust in our government that the Russian people have shown us, thank you very much!

            For the health of the Russian people!
            1. shasherin_pavel
              shasherin_pavel 10 May 2014 09: 58
              0
              I absolutely agree with
              Quote: Gari
              we had mistakes, the first two years

              but let someone point out the army that was able to resist the Wehrmacht for more than 3 weeks, Poland had 3.8 million army personnel versus 1.5 million at the Wehrmacht, the war began on September 1, and on September 11 the announcement came that there is now a "Polish government in exile".
        2. Cesar_Xnumx
          Cesar_Xnumx 10 June 2013 17: 18
          +1
          Quote: Gari
          After a total, terrible purge of 1937, a new, political Russian army appeared that could endure the most brutal battles

          So then it certainly is. But do not shoot Joseph Vissarionych so many officers, these tough battles and mistakes at the beginning of the war could have been avoided.
          1. Gari
            Gari 10 June 2013 17: 30
            +2
            Quote: Cesar_001
            So then it certainly is. But do not shoot Joseph Vissarionych so many officers, these tough battles and mistakes at the beginning of the war could have been avoided.

            If you mean the shot generals, then yes there were among them talented and especially Tukhachevsky, but were they loyal?
            And how would they behave especially at the beginning of the war, when the Germans were near Moscow?
            And so they defended Moscow, defeated it near Stalingrad and reached Berlin.
            But just the German generals betrayed Hitler
            1. yurta2013
              yurta2013 10 June 2013 18: 26
              -5
              Quote: Gari
              among them were talented and especially Tukhachevsky, but were they faithful? And how would they behave especially at the beginning of the war, when the Germans were near Moscow?

              Yes, they were unlikely to be personally betrayed to Stalin. But there is no reason to doubt the loyalty of at least the vast majority of them to their country. And thanks to their talent, the Germans in general, most likely, would not have been near Moscow. In large strategic operations, a lot depends on the quality of command and control.
              1. aleshka1987
                aleshka1987 1 July 2013 14: 17
                0
                Thanks to their talent, everything was delivered as quickly as possible! They would save the soldiers, yes ...
            2. stroporez
              stroporez 10 June 2013 19: 40
              20
              I would very much like to know ------- how did Tukhachev's "talent" appear ????????? if you can ---- a detailed answer, please ..........
              1. pogis
                pogis 10 June 2013 19: 57
                +9
                Tukhachevsky has more questions than answers!
              2. EwgenyZ
                EwgenyZ 11 June 2013 11: 53
                +1
                Well, Tukhochevsky's "talent" was clearly manifested in the Polish company of 1920. and in the suppression of the Kronshdat and Tambov uprisings .... But this is not an indicator. The Red Army was strengthened not by repression, but by the atrocities of "civilizers" from the West. In the 30s, repressions drove out a lot of "military experts" who helped Soviet Russia to win the Civil War. The defeats of the first months are precisely due to the fact that the units were led not by experienced military personnel, but by "young officers - ideological communists" who knew the history of the CPSU (b) better than military affairs.
                1. The master
                  The master 12 June 2013 22: 09
                  +3
                  But what about the chief of the General Staff, Army General Antonov Alexey Innokentievich. http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C0%ED%F2%EE%ED%EE%E2,_%C0%EB%E5%EA%F1%E5%E9_%C8%ED

                  %ED%EE%EA%E5%ED%F2%FC%E5%E2%E8%F7
                  For some reason, this military expert - more than all the other generals and marshals put together, made an appointment with the Supreme. His works are appreciated. And in the late 30s, they destroyed the fifth column. And your Red Marshal Tukhachevsky would surely give Skorzeny’s keys to Zlatoglava. In general, WINNERS are not judged.
                2. shasherin_pavel
                  shasherin_pavel 10 May 2014 10: 07
                  0
                  Quote: EwgenyZ
                  young officers are ideological communists "

                  Quite the contrary, the inspection of the Red Army in 39 made a claim to the command of the Red Army from the All-Union Communist Party of the Bolsheviks for the poor knowledge of the history of the All-Union Communist Bolsheviks on the part of the commanders ...
              3. yurta2013
                yurta2013 12 June 2013 05: 35
                0
                Quote: stroporez
                I would very much like to know ------- how did Tukhachevsky's "talent" appear ?????????

                It has become fashionable to doubt Tukhachevsky’s talent as a military specialist only in the last ten to fifteen years. Prior to this, including before and after 1937, no one had questioned this fact in our country, and almost no one was abroad. Even G. Zhukov, who is considered the greatest Soviet commander of the Second World War, spoke about Tukhachevsky very respectfully. I hope you do not consider yourself a great specialist than him?
                1. aleshka1987
                  aleshka1987 1 July 2013 14: 23
                  0
                  Ahaha! Tin! This is the reasoning: "Millions of flies cannot be wrong!"
            3. Revolver
              Revolver 10 June 2013 20: 03
              13
              Quote: Gari
              If you mean the shot generals, then yes there were among them talented and especially Tukhachevsky

              Yes, that talent is talent. Great innovator. Nobody before Tukhachevsky thought of using weapons of mass destruction against his people... He was the first. And what a strategist! How to remember his "victory" in the campaign against Poland, when he was sitting in Kiev trying to command the troops that almost reached the Vistula. Although what could one expect from a second lieutenant, who spent almost the entire world war in captivity, assigned to command the front?
              Maybe he was not guilty specifically of what he was shot for, but even without that he worked out more than one shot.
              1. yurta2013
                yurta2013 11 June 2013 19: 49
                -1
                Quote: Nagan
                How to remember his "victory" in the campaign against Poland, when he was sitting in Kiev trying to command the troops that almost reached the Vistula.

                Do you yourself understand what you wrote? The command of the Southwestern Front, that is, Yegorov and Stalin, sat in Kiev. Tukhachevsky commanded the Western Front, advancing through Belarus.
                Quote: Nagan
                what could one expect from a second lieutenant, who spent almost the entire world war in captivity, who was put in command of the front?

                Before being assigned to command the Western Front, he consistently commanded the 1st and 5th armies of the Eastern Front, who played an important role in defeating Kolchak. Then he was entrusted with command of the front against Denikin. He also successfully coped with this task.
                1. Alex
                  Alex 15 September 2013 01: 26
                  +2
                  Quote: yurta2013
                  Before being assigned to command the Western Front, he [Tukhachevsky] successively commanded the 1 and 5 armies of the Eastern Front, who played an important role in defeating Kolchak. Then he was entrusted with command of the front against Denikin. He also successfully coped with this task.


                  Respected yurta2013, if you are a fan of Tukhachevsky, then at least learn him from Iography, well, at least on Wikipedia. Here is a quote from it:
                  In August, he commanded the 1th Soviet Army, which attempted to take Simbirsk occupied by the whites and in a fierce battle 27 (14) - 30 (17) on August outskirts of the city was defeated by units of Colonel General Staff V.O. Kappel, resulting in 1 Soviet army was forced to retreat to 80 verst west of Simbirsk
                  Subsequently, he took command of the 8 Army, which under his command was never able to defeat the Don White Army, after which he, having quarreled with the front command and the commander in chief, left the army command.

                  In general, a lot can be said about his "talents", but the fact remains: as a punisher, he achieved much greater success than as a military leader. And the reviews of G.K. Zhukov - so he himself was one of his fosterlings, and his ringleader was distinguished by enviable political flexibility.
              2. KazaK Bo
                KazaK Bo 14 June 2013 21: 15
                +1
                ... Tukhachevsky was to blame ... he himself admitted it and sincerely set out on 117 pages in an autocratic handwriting yes, we were preparing a military coup, a conspiracy!
            4. mark7
              mark7 10 June 2013 20: 21
              12
              what is Tukhachevsky’s talent? in the fight against his own citizens from Tambov and Kronstadt? Another thing is that there are few old pros who are pros
              1. yurta2013
                yurta2013 11 June 2013 19: 53
                -2
                Quote: mark7
                what is Tukhachevsky’s talent in the fight against his own citizens from Tambov and Kronstadt?

                Tambov and Kronstadt were in 1921. You will find more information about Tukhachevsky’s talent in the history of the civil war (1918-1920).
              2. brelok
                brelok 14 June 2013 07: 16
                -1
                Quote: mark7
                what is Tukhachevsky’s talent in the fight against his own citizens from Tambov and Kronstadt?

                Suvorov shed the same blood of Rosiyans quite a few! He extinguished Pugachev’s uprising. The army was created to fulfill orders! And politicians are ordering.
                1. Alex
                  Alex 15 September 2013 01: 43
                  +2
                  Quote: brelok
                  Suvorov shed the same blood of Rosiyans quite a few! He extinguished Pugachev’s uprising.

                  General talent A.V. Suvorov was not manifested in the suppression of the unorganized troops of Pugachev and the suppression of the Polish uprising of 1794, but in the Italian pod, the assault of Izmail, the capture of Turtukai and the defense of Girsovo, in decisive actions during the battle of Kozludzha, the battle of Kinburn, the capture of Izmail (that's something everyone knows!), the battle of Fokshany and at Rymnik ... Your vaunted Tukhachevsky, distinguished by bestial cruelty in suppressing the rebellions in Kronstadt and Tambov, can boast at least a hundredth share of really MILITARY and really indisputable YOUR victories? I didn’t find something like that. Let me know, and I will eat my hat in public.
            5. aleshka1987
              aleshka1987 1 July 2013 14: 15
              0
              Tukhachevsky talented ?? What's wrong? Immediately throw the veil from your eyes and read his works for enlightenment!
              1. shasherin_pavel
                shasherin_pavel 10 May 2014 10: 17
                0
                After reading Suvorov-Rezun, I specially took Tukhachevsky's work from the library and found that there was only one mistake that Suvorov-Rezun mentioned, that the front of the First World War stretched for tens of thousands of kilometers. Yes, the Russian-German front was no longer than 4 thousand km. but it is written about the front of the entire First World War. Suffice it to recall the death of the cruiser Zhemchug, the coastline of a war is also a front. The tactics of tank troops according to Tukhachevsky are used to our times. But after all, such a tactic of using "War elephants" is described in the Bible, in the "Books of Macaquay", but it is better to read my article "War elephants" on the site "Military Affairs" than to reread the Bible.
            6. shasherin_pavel
              shasherin_pavel 10 May 2014 10: 01
              0
              Quote: Gari
              And how would they behave especially at the beginning of the war,

              The commander of the Special Kiev Military District Pavel, one of the few who was forgiven, after his arrest ... believed! And the result? Some historians have already put forward a version of intentional wrecking by Pavlov.
          2. pogis
            pogis 10 June 2013 19: 32
            0
            In those times, former officers were shot. And they defeated the Red Army COMMANDERS near Moscow and in Stalingrad! And also the soldiers, not the Red Army soldiers! And the younger commanders! And they retreated to Moscow because there was no mobilization, because in the Red Army, as well as in modern Armenia, positions from the kompolka and higher were occupied by someone nominated from the Arbat district, i.e. upon appointment to the post, the slave-chair took into account the origin and fidelity (to someone)! Przemysl border town was finally captured on 27June !!!! After 2 days the Germans took Minsk!
            1. sanych your division
              sanych your division 10 June 2013 21: 43
              +4
              and you do not accidentally taste the history of our generals and marshals of the Second World War? they didn’t keep idiots in the General Staff of tsarist Russia ... and taught very high quality. Thanks, I would have to say them for Zhukov and others
              1. nerd.su
                nerd.su 13 June 2013 10: 50
                -2
                Quote: sanych your division
                they didn’t keep idiots in the General Staff of tsarist Russia ... and taught very high quality. Thanks, I would have to say them for Zhukov and others

                Was Zhukov taught at the General Staff of Tsarist Russia? belay
                1. shasherin_pavel
                  shasherin_pavel 10 May 2014 10: 30
                  0
                  Who "nerd" minus! Shaposhnikov and Brusilov studied at the General Staff of the tsarist army, who went over to the side of the Red Army. Ensign Zhukov in the General Staff of the Russian Empire ?!
              2. KazaK Bo
                KazaK Bo 14 June 2013 21: 48
                +2
                Of all the top generals and marshals of the USSR, only Yegorov graduated from the ACADEMY of the General Staff ... ZHUKOV only rose to the rank of Feldwebel in the First World War ... Feldwebel was not admitted to the Academy of the General Staff. And in total in the Red Army in 1937 there were more than 300 thousand former officers ... and very few, literally a few, of them made a career, they served the MOTHERLAND, for conscience, not for a chair! And they shot more of those who did not pass the test with "copper pipes" ... having rushed from "rags to riches" many career military men, not having a good basic education and upbringing, lost the sense of reality ...
                There are many examples! How many high-profile articles there were that many intelligence leaders were repressed. And why? Besides the fact that Stalin was a villain with Voroshilov, there were no other arguments. But our intelligence overslept a lot of systemic transformations in the world. So that Hitler entered the Ruhr region, Stalin learned from newspapers, as well as that in Munich they shared EUROPE without the USSR. And after that they sent greetings to us from the Czech Republic and even after the AUSTRIA Anschluss. Similarly in Spain. Which leader will forgive such failures ... Moreover, the times were very serious then - either they us, or we them ... I do not condone the extreme measure of ill-treatment, but no other was given. History, the actions of leaders need to be evaluated in the context of that time, and not from the moral standards and laws of the present time.
                1. nerd.su
                  nerd.su 14 June 2013 23: 52
                  0
                  Quote: KazaK Bo
                  Of all the higher generals and marshals of the USSR, only Egorov graduated from the General Staff Academy

                  In my opinion, only Boris Mikhailovich Shaposhnikov graduated from the Academy of the General Staff. Although maybe not only him. Egorov graduated from the Kazan Infantry School.

                  Quote: KazaK Bo
                  And they shot more of those who did not pass the test with "copper pipes".

                  Yes, then the time was cool. And how now to distinguish who did not pass the test, and whom the neighbors slandered or colleagues. And who actually was a spy and saboteur. And the performers (investigators, prosecutors and judges) did not differ in literacy, but everything was in order with revolutionary self-awareness. But no demagoguery. I would have done it now, if only talk about the rule of law and complete failure to do anything with this rule of law.
              3. shasherin_pavel
                shasherin_pavel 10 May 2014 10: 24
                0
                Zhukov in the General Staff of the tsarist army ??? I understand that we made a reservation ... It was possible to write about the Higher School of the General Staff of the Russian Empire, but even there they accepted at least the rank of colonel. But Zhukov, the son of a shoemaker, did not have such a title then. He could study at the Higher School of the General Staff of the Red Army, where tactics were taught by officers of the tsarist army and teachers of the school of the General Staff of the empire.
          3. Starina_hank
            Starina_hank 13 June 2013 17: 54
            +1
            Trained officers started firing back in 1917, then they just continued,
        3. Raiven
          Raiven 11 June 2013 00: 37
          0
          but how could one not take measures, knowing that a huge German grouping had accumulated at the borders of the USSR?
          1. shasherin_pavel
            shasherin_pavel 10 May 2014 10: 43
            0
            Unlike 37-38 years in the Red Army in 1939, not only 25 year olds were called up, yes, in 37 years old they were called up to the army ... 25, 24, 23, and 22 year olds were called up. The army has grown from 20 million to 2.5 million. The workers switched to a six-day work week from a five-day one. The shift at the factories of the defense industry increased to 5 hours. But with a population of 12 million, we could not resist in industry the 200 million population of Europe working for Germany, who was under occupation or as part of the Axis countries: Germany, Italy, Japan, the allies of Romania, Hungary, Finland, the formed divisions "Nord" in Norway, Spain's Blue Division. French division defeated at Borodino.
        4. Starina_hank
          Starina_hank 13 June 2013 17: 52
          +2
          The statement is quite controversial! The initial period of the war is clearly a failure!
        5. shasherin_pavel
          shasherin_pavel 10 May 2014 09: 52
          0
          Quote: Gari
          terrible purge of 1937

          That's about the awful cleaning. Some are already presenting figures as much as 20 senior command personnel ... This is with a 000 million army in 2 years? This is 36 people for one lieutenant colonel of the Red Army. Who then commanded the captains and lieutenants? The lieutenant colonel is subordinate to two majors = 100 servicemen. 3 majors have 2 captains = 3 + 6. 3 captains have 3 lieutenants = 3 + 9 = 9. 18/100 = 18 privates subordinate to the lieutenant, as a company commander, in peacetime there are about 6 people. The full military force is 100 people. More like a mental attack by Capel, who gathered more officers than privates, and lieutenants and second lieutenants held the posts of private. A terrible lie, the same when for 300 dispossessed PERSONS, and not families, there were 400 million who died of hunger during the transfer to Siberia. A tendency is very often observed: 000 people are disposed of, then someone replaces a person with families, then in the next publication the family is multiplied by 4-400 people in the family. Then they add a zero to the figure, as if a typo, and this becomes true for history, since history is most often written according to the latest publications, and not according to primary sources. Voroshilov's report to Stalin for 000 years indicates the composition of the retired from the army: on retirement, on disability, on their own, temporarily due to illness, arrested for embezzlement of state property, dismissed for drunkenness and slovenliness, even for rape, for inconsistency with the position, dismissed from the army for pedigree, for nationality (during the war with Japan, all those with surnames similar to Korean or Japanese were dismissed), as well as arrested and executed Trotskyists and saboteurs, now they are all enlisted as victims of the "Terrible repression". Until the last unit. This is how our history is written.
      2. nnz226
        nnz226 10 June 2013 17: 19
        +9
        Yeah!!! Against Starinov's background - Skorzeny is a graduate of the junior group of a kindergarten! And this "uncle" - PROFI, what to look for !!!
        1. Mikhail3
          Mikhail3 10 June 2013 18: 57
          0
          Interestingly, would Starinov at least warm up properly, having run 12 kilometers in the same years as Skorzeny?
      3. baboon
        baboon 12 June 2013 11: 57
        -1
        i read his book yes there were times there were people
    3. Alex
      Alex 15 September 2013 01: 04
      +2
      Quote: Baron Wrangell

      smiled! Skorzeny is, as they say, an advertised mass media hero. But in some ways he is right. To fight with Russians is dangerous for health.


      Aha! This is still Bismarck (that's not a stupid German) said. True, he spent a lot of time in Russia, managed to understand the "inexplicable Russian soul." So I did not advise you to use a horn on the Russians.
  4. Zubr
    Zubr 10 June 2013 08: 53
    13
    smile So the Germans failed their complete conviction of racial superiority. Of course, the repressions of 37 threw a lot of coms. the composition of our Red Army, but we must not forget that many volunteers did not go for the party, not for Stalin, but for the fact that these bastards started a war to completely destroy the Slavic peoples.
    But OTTO VON BISMARK warned: "Never fight the Russians. They will respond to every military trick of yours with unpredictable stupidity."
    1. valokordin
      valokordin 10 June 2013 12: 41
      -5
      Quote: Zubr
      smile So the Germans failed their complete conviction of racial superiority. Of course, the repressions of 37 threw a lot of coms. the composition of our Red Army, but we must not forget that many volunteers did not go for the party, not for Stalin, but for the fact that these bastards started a war to completely destroy the Slavic peoples.
      It is interesting, but now for whom it is necessary to go into battle, for Putin, Medvedev, United Russia, maybe for Abramovich, Chubais. An interesting slogan is for the homeland, for Chubais! or just Uraaa, your mother like that.
      But OTTO VON BISMARK warned: "Never fight the Russians. They will respond to every military trick of yours with unpredictable stupidity."
      1. KCC
        KCC 10 June 2013 16: 55
        +8
        You just need to fight for the Motherland. And about Bismarck, add "Never fight with the Russians. They will answer every military trick with unpredictable stupidity" and win.
        1. stroporez
          stroporez 11 June 2013 13: 25
          +1
          Quote: KCC
          They will respond to every military trick of yours with unpredictable stupidity. "
          it doesn’t matter what. ON OWN land - and a blade of grass to help
      2. dmit-xnumx
        dmit-xnumx 13 June 2013 21: 31
        0
        Poor thing, apparently you have no homeland.
      3. Sinbad
        Sinbad 14 June 2013 11: 26
        0
        Sovereigns, politicians, regimes are changing. And Russia stood, will stand and will stand. But for it to stand, it, Russia, must be protected from all sorts of enemies, external and internal.
    2. pavlo
      pavlo 10 June 2013 14: 58
      +6
      No need to drive the blizzard, about 1600 people were shot! And not 40000!
      1. rainufa
        rainufa 12 June 2013 16: 13
        -2
        even though 1600, this is the highest command link.
        1. shasherin_pavel
          shasherin_pavel 10 May 2014 10: 57
          0
          Does that mean 1600 generals? The generals command divisions of 10 people, this is an army of 000 million people, 16 million people were mobilized during the entire Great Patriotic War. But this, together with the troops in the Far East, in Mongolia, the Caucasus and the Internal Troops, to protect military facilities throughout the rear, factories, warehouses, bridges. But 32 is not a complete list of the High Command. Someone replaced the arrested, and the education of officers increased.
      2. shasherin_pavel
        shasherin_pavel 10 May 2014 10: 47
        0
        1600 people were sentenced to "the highest measure of social protection" ... but in 41, many of them were returned to the Red Army ... of those whom they did not have time to shoot. So you have to minus 1600.
    3. VADIMKRSK
      VADIMKRSK 12 June 2013 02: 28
      +2
      Not stupidity, but worldly wisdom - you have to fight. If not I - then who ...
  5. Kovrovsky
    Kovrovsky 10 June 2013 09: 38
    +5
    There are many controversial points in these reasons: an ideological communist is sometimes not at all the same as a competent, intelligent commander; against the T-34, the Germans had very good RAK-38 and RAK-40; all the assorted trophy equipment collected from Western Europe did "a disservice: the Germans had few spare parts for such an assortment."
    1. Snoop
      Snoop 10 June 2013 10: 59
      +4
      The moment is different, the old ones were replaced by a new generation, already brought up in Soviet times or those who were already ideological during the revolution, it is logical to assume that such a commander of a regiment or division would be much more devoted than a commander who served several governments. It’s for the tsar’s father, then for the Provisional Government, then for the Reds.
      1. Kazanok
        Kazanok 10 June 2013 11: 17
        13 th
        nonsense .. they threw a battalion commander into the division .... well, what good .. oak oak .... and to all fans of mass killings in the Red Army I advise you to put yourself in the place of the killed ....
        1. avt
          avt 10 June 2013 11: 55
          15
          Quote: Kazanok
          nonsense .. the battalion commander was thrown into the division ....

          Whom, when and where, yes, who else? Again, a hackneyed record, which has long been refuted by specific numbers, but to crow, and let others then rummage through the archives and prove who they really repressed, and for what, they restored them, but what about the fact that when the army is deployed into a multi-million dollar population, Well. So it’s straight on Solzhenitsyn - the main thing is to tweet, and the adherents will carry on. But when you look at the registration cards of the Podolsky archive - well, then the then Surkov propaganda probably rigged everything laughing But how did these "battalion commanders" manage to resist so realistically, if not repressed, well-fed, equipped France was blown away in 40 days? Well, this is an optical illusion. laughing
          1. Kazanok
            Kazanok 10 June 2013 22: 58
            -7
            Quote: avt
            But how did these "battalion commanders" manage to resist so realistically, if not repressed, well-fed, equipped France was blown away in 40 days? Well, this is an optical illusion.

            France is just small ... by the way, the red-bellied men waved so much in the drap that 2 France even ran without looking back ...
            1. EwgenyZ
              EwgenyZ 11 June 2013 12: 02
              +5
              Red-bellied - those that you owe your life! More respectful of those who gave you life. You may not like the Bolsheviks and Stalin personally, but why offend those who did everything possible to stop the enemy?
            2. maxvet
              maxvet 11 June 2013 16: 37
              +2
              and you look at the map how many Wehrmacht passed in France and how many in the USSR, and for how long, while do not forget that France fought with Germany since September 1939 and could prepare for anything
            3. Setrac
              Setrac 11 June 2013 23: 29
              +2
              Quote: Kazanok
              France is just small ... by the way, the red-bellied men waved so much in the drap that 2 France even ran without looking back ...

              Who prevented the French from retreating to their colonies in North Africa, evacuating and building industry there, and fighting, fighting.
        2. nnz226
          nnz226 10 June 2013 17: 28
          10
          The term "massacres in the Red Army" can be deciphered in more detail ?! About 40000 "shot" commanders just do not need to start! 40000 were dismissed from the ranks of the Red Army, including for immorality, drunkenness, etc. (that is, ordinary criminality), a little more than 10000 of them were arrested (by the way, data from the books of Pan Rezun, who does not love the USSR and Stalin, who, under the pseudonym (undeserved !!!) V. Suvorov, sprinkled "Icebreaker" and others like him ) and about 2000 people were shot. Liberoids will say - "Horror!" and according to Juza Goebbels, this is already statistics. Again, when you study who and for what, you also start thinking about the correctness of the sentence. The same Marshal Tukhachevsky - who pushed into the armament the tanks of the T-26 and BT type, in which in 1941 our tankers died in thousands! Because of the ANTI-BULLET !!! armor! Considering that the frontal armor of the German "troikas" reached 50 mm, as in the T-34 against 15-16 mm in the aforementioned tanks, which constituted the "base of many thousands" of the Red Army tank forces by 1941.
          1. yurta2013
            yurta2013 10 June 2013 18: 43
            -4
            Quote: nnz226
            40000 were dismissed from the ranks of the Red Army

            But what, this did not affect the combat effectiveness of the army, especially during the period of its numerical increase by more than 2 times? Who could replace them? The remnants of the staff of the officers of the times of the First World War (thanks to which Hitler was able to deploy his army to mobilize) were dismissed from the Red Army in the early 30s.
            Quote: nnz226
            The same Marshal Tukhachevsky - who pushed into service tanks of the T-26 and BT type, in which in 1941 our tankers died in thousands! Because of the ANTI-BULLET !!! armor! Considering that the frontal armor of the German "triplets" reached 50 mm

            I think you will be very surprised, but by the time Tukhachevsky was arrested (spring 1937), the vast majority of German tanks (T-1 and T-2) had about the same thin armor as our T-26 and BT, and weapons many times worse.
            1. avt
              avt 10 June 2013 20: 59
              +4
              Quote: yurta2013
              40000 were dismissed from the ranks of the Red Army

              Quote: yurta2013
              But what, this did not affect the combat effectiveness of the army, especially during the period of its numerical increase by more than 2 times? Who could replace them? Remains of personnel officers from the times of the First World War (

              Here is a classic manipulation of Solzhenitsyn, yes, they were fired, but only liberoids are lumping together the repressed - the irretrievably lost 1600, and those who were rehabilitated like Rokosovsky and others like him, and those who were under house arrest and subsequently reinstated both in rank and in the party, well and those dismissed for criminal offenses - convicted, which means a victim of terror, drunkenness and immorality. But the most piquant thing is that they also add up to their age, they also leave the army, so the number of "terrible crimes" is growing. And what about the officers who have passed the Imperialist - so we had a civilian, and the commanders of the past and "hot spots", China, Spain, were also enough. And there were mistakes, sometimes tragic, but if everything was like that in Svanidze's way, then there would not have been us now and no one would have coped, it does not happen like this - the people took the club of people's anger and paaashel, some went to the factory, some to the front, and the evil Stalin they only interfered with the Bolsheviks.
              1. Kazanok
                Kazanok 10 June 2013 23: 03
                -9
                the scoop saved winter and dirt .. German tanks stupidly stalled in the corpses of our fighters .. and it was .... the cursed scoop and the Red Army almost asked for ... the country .... the country of damned communists ... damn them .. so much grief could only bring the enemy to the country .. and the enemy of the state this communists ...
                1. Ishtan
                  Ishtan 11 June 2013 01: 13
                  +3
                  Quote: Kazanok
                  the scoop saved winter and dirt .. German tanks stupidly stalled in the corpses of our fighters .. and it was .... the cursed scoop and the Red Army almost asked for ... the country .... the country of damned communists ... damn them .. so much grief could only bring the enemy to the country .. and the enemy of the state this communists ...

                  Why such hatred of the USSR? What is she doing?
                  1. Kazanok
                    Kazanok 14 June 2013 10: 21
                    0
                    hatred not for the ussr but for the damned communists who ditched the empire of Russia .... I hate them for all their atrocities .. the most monstrous and criminal regime in the world ...
                2. VADIMKRSK
                  VADIMKRSK 12 June 2013 02: 43
                  +1
                  The last 20 years, I don’t see the Communists. Whom do you curse? And I like the word ...
                3. Starina_hank
                  Starina_hank 13 June 2013 18: 09
                  +3
                  Some woodpecker drove a kid into the head a lot of stupid things! God will give wiser over time if he reads smart books.
                  If a soldier does not want to fight, no one and nothing will imprison him
                  1. Kazanok
                    Kazanok 14 June 2013 10: 23
                    0
                    this is how the communist nihilistic and non-Christian abomination and destroyed the army in the 17th .. and then these cowards that were hiding in the rear and threw off the king .. and there was only six months left ....
                4. aleshka
                  aleshka 13 June 2013 21: 20
                  +2
                  scoop is you dear, if you were brought up normally you would not be such an idiot !!!
                  1. Kazanok
                    Kazanok 14 June 2013 10: 24
                    0
                    a scoop is the same as North Korea .. do you like it ??? only they have juche and we have damned communism ... they have god eun and we have the secretary general .... what's the difference ?? here I hate this bastard ..
                5. dmit-xnumx
                  dmit-xnumx 13 June 2013 22: 51
                  +2
                  In my eyes, a more terrible and vile enemy is you. If the occupier had not been crushed by our parents, then it is likely that gloves from your skin would be in demand.
                  1. Kazanok
                    Kazanok 14 June 2013 10: 26
                    0
                    I did not understand what ??? Am I saying that I adore damned Nazis ?? I say that the red-bellied reptiles and damned atheists, unchrist .... but when they say rotten tsarism, I’m sure the adik would not go further than Minsk .... and the red ones brought him to the Volga ...
              2. yurta2013
                yurta2013 11 June 2013 20: 23
                0
                Quote: avt
                fired, that's just liberoids in one pile knocked down and repressed - 1600 irrevocably lost, and rehab

                Maybe you have the same accurate data on the number of officers rehabilitated and returned to the army before the Second World War? If not, there is no need to carry a gag.
                Quote: avt
                by age, too, plus, they also leave the army

                Among the officers of the Red Army "pensioners" were negligible. The officers of the old Russian army, after the repressions against them in the early 30s, remained a few (mainly in the academies and the general staff). The rest of the officers, in the overwhelming majority, were either "lower ranks" in World War I, or even became commanders after graduating from military schools after the civil war. Both those and others could not in any way reach the pension by 1.
                Quote: avt
                As for the officers who passed the Imperialist - so we had a Civil, and the commanders who passed and "hot spots", China, Spain, were also enough.

                Most of the officers with experience of the civil war and "hot spots" were just repressed in 1937-1938.
                Quote: avt
                if everything was like that in Svanidze’s way, then there wouldn’t be us now and no one could have done it, it’s not like that - the people took a club of national anger and paaashhel, some to the factory, some to the front, and the evil Stalin only interfered with the Bolsheviks.

                No need to primitize. Better read more smart books on our history. Then you will perceive it not only by campaign posters, but also relying on your own knowledge and thinking.
            2. Alex
              Alex 15 September 2013 02: 01
              +2
              Respected yurta2013, you can give the list of names of those executed in 1937-38. top leaders of the Red Army with their track records and a detailed analysis of their activities in their posts? Or will you wring your hands in mournful plum about "thousands of innocent ruined"? If you do not want to debate, do this analysis yourself. I am now doing this, I can say that it is a daunting task, the information is scanty, but the one that is, makes me seriously doubt the leadership talents of these persons. What is only the personality of the XNUMXst rank commander M.P. Frinovsky, who spent his whole life catching "enemies of the people" and only a year and a half before the arrest of the appointed People's Commissar of the Navy. What he could command there, even a hedgehog can understand. So that's enough about that.
            3. shasherin_pavel
              shasherin_pavel 10 May 2014 11: 04
              0
              I absolutely agree at the time of the arrest of Tukhachevsky on our tanks were the most powerful guns in the world with a caliber of 45 millimeters. Even in 41 and 43, the British put 40 mm guns on tanks, which were 37 mm by our standards.
          2. Kazanok
            Kazanok 10 June 2013 23: 01
            14 th
            2000 slammed ... what kind of garbage do you think ... only 2000 souls ... we had so much Stalin for breakfast .... and as the generals probably lived in zones ... just tears of tenderness ... read Gorbatov’s memoirs ... here everything is well described there ..... and communism is the worst evil on earth ....
            1. queen
              queen 10 June 2013 23: 10
              +9
              Quote: Kazanok
              and communism is the worst evil on earth

              The worst thing on earth is you, dear, After two years of the country destroyed after the war, the cards were canceled, the country was lifted in five years, and your shit-mongers robbed the people for twenty years to the skin. So catch a tomato.
              1. urganov
                urganov 11 June 2013 08: 30
                +2
                But it’s not necessary to deceive. I am from the age of 60, and I myself remember how the norms of grain sales in the Urals in Chelyab were canceled. in the first two days, bread was swept away, and on the third, sales came back to normal. And there was no panic about the restrictions.
              2. yurta2013
                yurta2013 11 June 2013 20: 39
                +1
                Quote: regin
                in five years the country was raised

                This is a strong exaggeration. Agriculture could not be raised to the pre-war level by 1950. The situation of the collective farmers remained difficult. Yes, they have been successful in restoring industry. However, one must not forget that the USSR received a very decent contribution from the defeated Germany. Thousands of machine tools, a lot of other industrial equipment, tractors, automobiles, were exported to the USSR from there. In addition to workers, several million convicts and at least 2 million prisoners of war worked on the restoration of industrial facilities. Do not forget the millions of tons of metals, food, seeds, clothes, medicines, etc., which were put into account for Lend-Lease and free of charge during the war.
              3. Kazanok
                Kazanok 14 June 2013 10: 29
                0
                Well, if you follow your logic, then we have paradise ??? why then was the whole country ready to run away to the damned capitalists ?? why with a scoop or, more precisely, communism, nowhere does it live normally ?? why does everyone run away from him ?? why where is he shooting, hunger and cannibalism ?? why is my question ??? I am for Orthodox Russia without the Communists and other evil spirits ....
          3. stroporez
            stroporez 11 June 2013 13: 31
            +3
            Quote: nnz226
            About 40000 "shot" commanders just do not need to start!
            for some reason, liberoids never give the figure of the destroyed Tambov peasants and insurgent Kronstadt. I think that Tukhachevsky outdid many ..... but, because he is in opposition to Stalin ------ many things are forgiven to him, and lebiroid blather in his side --- silent ............
            1. yurta2013
              yurta2013 11 June 2013 20: 44
              0
              Quote: stroporez
              for some reason, liberoids never call the figure of the destroyed Tambov peasants and rebellious Kronstadts

              Why should they call it "liberoids"? Ask them the communists. It was the Central Committee of their party that made the decision to suppress these uprisings by all possible means. Incidentally, Stalin was then a member of the Central Committee and bears at least equal responsibility with Tukhachevsky for these crimes.
              1. Alex
                Alex 15 September 2013 11: 35
                +2
                Quote: yurta2013
                Why should they call it "liberoids"?

                Yes, if only because they are doing this from the Tukhachevsky idol, a sort of sophisticated and intelligent darling, a knight without fear and reproach. But the Communists and the Central Committee just gave him an assessment when he began to confuse his duties with the country with personal interests.
            2. Glory333
              Glory333 15 September 2013 12: 47
              0
              Tukhachevsky is so beloved by the West and the liberals because he was a Trotskyist - a two-armed worker and an agent of world capital, in the event of a war he would not follow orders from Moscow but orders from London or Washington, and chemical weapons against peasants for liberals are the main thing that was their own nonsense native.
        3. Setrac
          Setrac 10 June 2013 23: 40
          +2
          Quote: Kazanok
          nonsense .. the battalion commander was thrown into the division .... what good is there .. oak oak ....

          They are born at once divisional commanders, where there is a simple battalion commander.
    2. Setrac
      Setrac 10 June 2013 23: 39
      -1
      Quote: Kovrovsky
      Germans had few spare parts of this assortment.

      What are the problems with spare parts? Factories too captured!
  6. svskor80
    svskor80 10 June 2013 09: 41
    +3
    By the way, he also smiled about England, here Hitler made a sound decision - they would not have taken the island, and if they had taken anyway there would have been a second front in the person of the United States.
    1. vyatom
      vyatom 10 June 2013 10: 42
      +2
      Quote: svskor80
      By the way, he also smiled about England, here Hitler made a sound decision - they would not have taken the island, and if they had taken anyway there would have been a second front in the person of the United States.

      History does not like the subjunctive mood. And if the British had few forces on land to defend the island, then let's not forget about the huge fleet of the mother country, which would simply overwhelm the entire German landing. And at that time there was a "battle for Britain" in the air, where the Germans did not achieve successes that would facilitate their landing on the islands.
      1. Drosselmeyer
        Drosselmeyer 10 June 2013 15: 07
        +3
        Well do not tell. The fleet would have to operate in the strait and under the blows of German aircraft. The Royal Air Force could not cover the fleet and would melt it, as the Germans did in the Mediterranean Sea with the British.
        1. family tree
          family tree 12 June 2013 00: 01
          +2
          The fleet operated during the evacuation in Dunkirk. The Royal Air Force was able to cover it and was not allowed to melt. The Royal Air Force is one thing to act near the airfields and quite another, somewhere near the devil on the cakes.
          1. Drosselmeyer
            Drosselmeyer 12 June 2013 12: 19
            +1
            The main forces of the fleet did not participate in the evacuation from Dunkirk.
            1. family tree
              family tree 14 June 2013 14: 14
              +1
              What's the difference? Moreover, the backlash did not win the battle for Britain either. They would not have been allowed to destroy the fleet, and the fleet would not have allowed them to land. The sea would have been bloody, but they didn’t. A pity, backlash and Wehrmacht bloodletting would be by the way, for us.
          2. Alex
            Alex 15 September 2013 11: 41
            +2
            Hitler simply allowed the Angles to calmly evacuate from Dunkirk, and the "hog" did not bother to competently organize the actions of the Luftwaffe.

            And on account of where it is more convenient for aviation, it would be much more convenient for the Germans from the territory of France and the Netherlands to stoke the British battleships to drown British than to bomb London with 20 minutes of the rest of the time.
    2. xorgi
      xorgi 10 June 2013 21: 59
      +2
      Quote "And in the summer of 1941, Hitler would have waged a war not on two fronts, but only on one - the Eastern." Something I did not understand, what is the second front in 1941?
  7. Syrzhn
    Syrzhn 10 June 2013 09: 42
    +5
    Skorzeny is an adventurer. And from these positions it is necessary to evaluate it. And the fact that his memoirs about his participation in the battles in the USSR at 41m have not been translated, most likely indicates that everything is not well written about us there. By the way, then he still fought on the eastern front, but already commanded a division. The division did not fulfill the tasks assigned to it.
  8. Denis_SF
    Denis_SF 10 June 2013 10: 07
    +5
    It is necessary to boil an average man burping in front of the TV with a bottle of beer in his hand, something “interesting”, pleasant for his little eye, settled down from peaceful life.

    I don’t quite understand, because of the innate nearness, is this the opinion of the author of the article about his people or the idea of ​​the opinion of the authors of the script of pseudo-war films?
    If the first option, then you are dashing (that is, of course you are) Mr., comrade, master decided to distance themselves from their native people. Like, "You - and I - no, I managed to be born in the era of pork snouts and mugs, I live and suffer. Oh, my garden, oh my poor garden!" The statement about a peaceful life is also of interest, the country does not have time to get out of one heap, as it constantly plunges into another. I agree, of course not 41, no one argues, but still ..
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 10 June 2013 23: 44
      -1
      Quote: Denis_SF
      I don’t quite understand, because of the innate nearness, is this the opinion of the author of the article about his people or the idea of ​​the opinion of the authors of the script of pseudo-war films?

      I’ll pay attention to the fact that someone put the pluses for this author.
  9. tixon444
    tixon444 10 June 2013 10: 17
    17
    Otto Skorzeny: “Why didn’t we take Moscow?”
    They would have taken, but only who will give them? With the same success it was possible to storm the moon.

    1. stroporez
      stroporez 10 June 2013 12: 07
      +8
      Quote: tixon444
      They would have taken, but only who will give them? With the same success it was possible to storm the moon.
      ----------- "pick" has not grown wassat
      1. vorobey
        vorobey 10 June 2013 14: 53
        +4
        Quote: stroporez
        ----------- "pick" has not grown


        but "davalka" as to the 45 year podmahala.
  10. datur
    datur 10 June 2013 10: 18
    +5
    the truth from the lips of such an enemy is worth a lot !!!
    1. omsbon
      omsbon 10 June 2013 14: 45
      +8
      Quote: datur
      the truth from the lips of such an enemy is worth a lot !!!

      Dear Jura!
      And to whom such an enemy. A saboteur promoted by Hitler's propaganda on whose account there are few really successful operations. Skorzeny just "got a stomach ache" on the Eastern Front, after the war he collaborated with the Amers and still managed to be recruited by the Israeli "Mossad".
      1. vitamin ky
        vitamin ky 11 June 2013 19: 50
        +3
        I agree Komrad-PR-PR and once again PR-ah evaluate !!!!! -We were praised and who? -fascist!!!! -ssman !!!! - the truth from the lips of such an enemy is worth nothing and is only harmful, both educational and other
  11. Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 10 June 2013 10: 45
    22
    Skorzeny is lying, t-34s were destroyed from a slingshot in 37, the entire "intellectual color of the Red Army" was destroyed because Mlechin himself was there and saw everything, while Svanidze and Mikhalkov personally attacked the enemy armed with sticks and saw that for one German killed accounted for 1566321 killed Russians. Well, if seriously, there is nothing to say about modern Russian films about the war, because see above, it is interesting to watch Western films, but there is the West.
    1. Armata
      Armata 10 June 2013 11: 21
      +7
      Comments on 100500 +. You can’t say better. drinks
    2. valerei
      valerei 10 June 2013 12: 06
      23
      Standard Oil, V. I. Lenin said: "Of all the arts, cinema is the most important for us." Why cinema? But because in terms of its impact on a poorly educated audience, cinema is incomparable with anything. That the Russian public is poorly educated, I recently accidentally learned the fact: about 75% of our population have never read books or visited the library! The exam will finally achieve another 10-15 percent, and the rest will never go to watch American cinema, because this is a movie for Americans and the mentally retarded. However, for more than 25 years we have been "forced" by the moronic American cinema (I am especially touched by American "reinforced concrete" "comedies") and our population, especially the mentally fragile youth, willingly absorb this "product"! There is a good Turkish proverb: "If you drink water from a bad well, then don't be surprised that your stomach has gone bad." The overwhelming majority of the Russian population has long had an ulcer, but it continues in the same spirit. Amers have long ago formed a stereotype of a "war" film: a la Western, and if you watch ours, especially the latest films, then this Western has migrated into Russian films. Lenin understood perfectly well that cinema is, first of all, an instrument of propaganda of the ideas of the one who gives money for the film. American cinema infection, both directly and by the hands of Russian filmmakers, has perverted and turned into filth all the ideals of Russia as a Russian state. We, thanks to American cinema, and now Russian cinema, have largely become not Russians, but something, no one knows what. Sacramental question: Why, since the beginning of "perestroika", not a single film adaptation of the individual authors of memoirs who survived the war, who really fought in the trenches, has been created? And the idiotic "White Tiger" came out! Well, that's it, I'm finishing, anyway nobody reads our comments, except ourselves.
      1. Standard Oil
        Standard Oil 10 June 2013 12: 18
        +7
        I agree in the sense that a poorly educated person perceives visual images in the form of a movie better, I just wonder where modern directors get money for their "masterpieces" if their films never pay off, ordinary people say in rubles "Your films are Mr.", and they All are filming and filming. I still think that we will have good films about the war, eventually, when the generation of directors of the defeatist perestroika will leave.
        1. aviator_IAS
          aviator_IAS 11 June 2013 03: 20
          +5
          Quote: Standard Oil
          I agree in the sense that a poorly educated person perceives visual images in the form of a movie better, I just wonder where modern directors get money for their "masterpieces" if their films never pay off


          Sadly, money is taken from our pockets. Mikhalkov will once again cry about the crisis of Russian cinema, beg for a few millenes of green candy wrappers, and let's shoot another movie-y-s-e-r. And he (MiGalkov) is very worried that Western show business is losing millions of dollars in Russia due to piracy. Owners of American film studios sadly calculate the "lost revenue" by multiplying the number of movies downloaded for free on the Internet by the ticket price. Colossal numbers are obtained! Barin Nikita, in addition to not being in poverty, wants to have a percentage of Western films in order to shoot another heresy with this money.
          It is not at all a fact that those who watched the film were ready to pay for it for free. As the president rightly noted recently: "We can give money for films, but we cannot force people to watch them."
          Well said here: http://krumza.livejournal.com/183737.html
          After watching some films, it’s just right to demand compensation for moral damage from the director. negative

          Already wrote in another topic:
          For example, Burnt by the Sun-2 Citadel cost the budget 45 million green bills. And earned (if at all this word can be applied) - 1,5 million of the same pieces of paper. At "Anticipation" the ratio is slightly better: - spent 33 million euros, collected 7,5 million greens
      2. valokordin
        valokordin 10 June 2013 12: 46
        +5
        Quote: valerei
        Thanks to American cinema, and now Russian, we have become largely not Russians, but something, it is not known what.

        And this is true, our crap democrats have so mutilated the consciousness of people that even the president, divorcing his wife, does not consider it immoral. But what about the family cell of society, which means a bad example is contagious.
        1. Starina_hank
          Starina_hank 13 June 2013 18: 22
          0
          What a cell’s head is, such a family!
      3. Was mammoth
        Was mammoth 10 June 2013 19: 14
        +2
        Quote: valerei
        Lenin perfectly understood that cinema is, first of all, an instrument for propagating the ideas of the one who gives money for the film.

        And what would he say about television? smile
        1. sergeschern
          sergeschern 13 June 2013 10: 27
          +1
          I don't know what he would say about television, but the quote goes like this: "cinema and circus". And as a circus, you see, now - in bulk!
      4. mark7
        mark7 10 June 2013 20: 33
        0
        we read and more and more of us +
      5. dmit-xnumx
        dmit-xnumx 13 June 2013 23: 08
        +1
        A separate plus for the White Tiger! the graphomaniac has ripped and misinterpreted "Moby Dick", the other got into the film adaptation.
      6. Alex
        Alex 15 September 2013 11: 49
        +2
        Well, I’m ending, all the same, no one reads our comments, except for ourselves.

        Not certainly in that way. I’ve been on the forum recently, but with interest I read all the opinions. So work for those who come fellow
    3. Kazakh
      Kazakh 10 June 2013 19: 54
      +1
      Quote: Standard Oil
      seriously, then about modern Russian films about the war and there’s nothing to say because see above, it’s interesting to watch Western films, but there’s the West.
      Sorry that you were anti-Russian films
  12. Snoop
    Snoop 10 June 2013 11: 01
    +6
    Again groans of debris about dirt and rains, frost. But this does not justify them as military men, they must know who they are attacking and in what natural conditions they will have to fight. Just the excuses of the vanquished.
    You can also read Mellenthin: “However, it should be borne in mind that the party and its organs have tremendous influence in the Red Army. Almost all the commissars are city dwellers and come from the working class. Their courage borders on recklessness; they are very intelligent and decisive people. in the Russian army, what it lacked in the First World War was iron discipline. "
    .. "The industrialization of the Soviet Union, carried out persistently and mercilessly, gave the Red Army new equipment and a large number of highly qualified specialists."
  13. Zhaman-Urus
    Zhaman-Urus 10 June 2013 11: 16
    13
    Otto Skorzeny: "Why didn't we take Moscow?" Immortal is remembered: "Yes, his grenades are of the wrong system"
  14. Corsair
    Corsair 10 June 2013 11: 32
    11
    So it will be somewhat clearer ...
    1. knn54
      knn54 10 June 2013 15: 09
      +3
      -Korsar: So it will be somewhat more visual ...
      And fairer.
      3rd rank State Security Commissioner P. A. Sudoplatov
  15. Titanium02
    Titanium02 10 June 2013 11: 49
    +9

    And as for the modern "movies about war" ... The film mentioned above is not the worst work yet. The impression is that these "gifted" directors "themselves with mustaches", to hell spend money on a competent consultant. And if you don't want to spend money, well, look at the old, really great, films about the war: "They fought for the Motherland", "Hot Snow", "Some" old men "and others are going into battle. As a little kid, I remember the impression of a competently shot episode with the onset of fascist tanks - a frost on the skin, if you imagine yourself in the place of our infantryman ... And now, basically, "Ramomania" about a beautiful war is in fashion ... Any participant in any conflict would be asked - they probably would have understood, yes, and women meet in war, and beautiful landscapes, but most importantly, war is just very hard work (although, of course, not for everyone, remember "closer to the kitchen"); dirt, sweat and blood ...
    1. Alex
      Alex 15 September 2013 11: 59
      +2
      When I was still a seventh grader, I watched "Zhivyk and the Dead" by Simonov. That's a movie, that's the actors! And especially A. Papanov in the role of General Serpilin and K. Lavrov in the role of political instructor Sentsov. These are the images! Intelligence, courage, intelligence, endurance, justice. I still remember these people, the present would like to learn from them to love the Motherland, and not extinguish the Vietnamese from an aircraft machine gun. But where are the people now who can play like that - after all, for this you yourself need to be like that ...
  16. Lalaloa
    Lalaloa 10 June 2013 12: 37
    -3
    It seems to be so bad, but no, we have to do worse. The authorities do not cease to amaze. This site recently came across: http://w2c3d.tk where information about each of us is publicly posted. I don’t know why to do this, but it personally scares me. Nevertheless, I somehow managed to delete my data, though I had to register, but no one could "dig up" anything on me.
  17. Gahprom
    Gahprom 10 June 2013 13: 19
    +4
    Like everyone else, Skorzeny was struck by the "gorgeous T-34." The Germans also had to rush to these tanks with bottles filled with gasoline. In the films, such an episode is characteristic of the depiction of the heroism of a Soviet soldier who was forced to fight almost with his bare hands. But in reality it happened and vice versa. Moreover, regularly: “German anti-tank guns, which easily hit tanks such as T-26 and BT, were powerless against the new T-34, which suddenly appeared from uncompressed wheat and rye. Then our soldiers had to attack them with the help of “Molotov cocktails” - ordinary bottles with gasoline with a lit ignition cord instead of a cork. If the bottle hit the steel plate that protected the engine, the tank caught fire ... “Faust-cartridges” appeared much later, therefore, at the beginning of the campaign, some Russian tanks were held back by direct fire only by our heavy artillery. ”

    I cry straight and cry, 37 mm did not penetrate the T-34 at all, that’s the reason for the failure ...
    how everyone is to blame, frost, t-34, etc. ..
    it's all not us
    1. stroporez
      stroporez 10 June 2013 19: 49
      +6
      something else amazes me. already everyone in the world probably knows about the Russian frosts and distances .... the question is, why the hell is it going to rush over and over again ??????????? zero, ---- in deep minuses ..... and for stupidity it is necessary to pay (from myself I know) - always !!!!!!!!!
  18. ALPETSEM
    ALPETSEM 10 June 2013 13: 54
    0
    The main reason is that the Soviet soldier knew what he was fighting for, and the German went into battle without a spiritual core.
  19. Svyatoslav72
    Svyatoslav72 10 June 2013 14: 02
    +7
    We read Otto, not very interesting, even nothing to remember. The fact that he "dismissed the snot" is more from personal resentment. He promoted the NKVD and the Red Army well to the USSR, almost like a political department. Maybe he wanted to cross over to us?
    In fact, there are explanations for everything. Especially who bothered to read other more "savvy" German military, he understands in what unfavorable situation they acted and what problems they faced. The fact that the Wehrmacht began to understand that it did not have enough forces, means and equipment was understandable from Poland. Where the Germans had to "sweat", no worse than the Russians in the Finnish to freeze. As for the French company, it was clear from the tank fleet that it was not good for anything. What could we say about the Russian company, when on June 22.06.41, XNUMX, in some sectors of the front, the Red Army launched a counter offensive and the Pograntsy fought off several attacks a day. This is also an indicator.
    The western border collapsed for obvious reasons, the illusions melted away like a mirage, and many worthy people paid with their lives for the mistakes of others.
    The general conclusion is this: Otto is a talker and a bad PR man, he cannot think objectively and denies the existing reality. General material, like bad propaganda, plays into everyone’s hands and harms only those who believe in it.
    PS For fans of films about the war, I advise you to watch amerikosovsky film "When the lights are silent", the best overseas work not deprived of realism.
    1. vorobey
      vorobey 10 June 2013 14: 57
      +4
      Quote: Svyatoslav72
      Fans of films about the war, I advise you to watch the American film "When the lights are silent", the best overseas work not deprived of realism.


      Gentlemen, better read Manstein’s lost victories or the soldier’s Guderian notes.
      1. Svyatoslav72
        Svyatoslav72 10 June 2013 15: 34
        0
        Good works, a lot of interesting things, more authoritative than Otto.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. aleshka
        aleshka 13 June 2013 21: 26
        +2
        read-shit! it’s better to read Remarque! he has more truth about the war!
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Starina_hank
      Starina_hank 13 June 2013 18: 29
      +1
      "Saving Private Ryan", "Military Diver", "Serfiko". There are good films from the s, do not watch the bad ones. And our good ones are less and less, practically none.
  20. Shkodnik65
    Shkodnik65 10 June 2013 15: 13
    +4
    As for Skorzeny, he needed to somehow explain the failure of the offensive on Moscow. So he "explained". Something actually took place, something the speculation of a publicized adventurer. I don’t think it’s worth "puffing" from pride when reading his memoirs. But I listened with pleasure to my grandfathers who went through the war from beginning to end (one still started with Finnish). And I think that there was much more truth in their words. Trench of truth.
    I agree with one thing - lately, films about the war are shit. Maybe with rare exceptions. Well, such as "Liberation", "Hot Snow", "They Fought for the Motherland", probably will not be removed ...
    1. Starina_hank
      Starina_hank 13 June 2013 18: 33
      +1
      I did not know that you could listen with pleasure about war. In my youth, war veterans spoke little about war, they were silent more.
  21. ISO
    ISO 10 June 2013 15: 35
    +1
    Maybe this is of course the interpretation of the author of the article, but it looks like a whine of a beaten dog, and Skorzeny has collected everything in a heap. I was especially outraged about the Finnish company. About the T-34 is bullshit, the French also had better tank models than the German ones, but the USSR and France had new ones that were not rolled out by the troops, the new units did not have time to work out tactical techniques, without a zip and with a low running resource. But the technique used by "Durik" is just a pile of scrap metal. For any tank that is most razperdovyperdntny, figuratively speaking, its own RPG in the epaulette ... From real things it seems about the inconsistency of technology, the influence of Canaris and other renegades hatched, I think not earlier than 1943. Aloizych himself messed up with the Japanese, with the Molotov pact - the ribentroppa changed the government from the pale yellow-faced - the Japanese chose the moment and threw it back in 1942.
    Well, it’s somehow conceded that the brilliant tactics in the Wehrmacht were only enough for the army group center, the army groups north and south did not shine with new tactical methods and acted more carefully, and their results were much more modest. An army group center threw dangerous knees on the verge of a foul more than once drove out at random and accordingly issued up to 200 km / day, and luck was capricious lady ...
    About the red commanders, Skorzeny is surprisingly knocked out of the general chorus of memoirists from an undeveloped Wehrmacht, and tankers and pekhtur and flyers branded our commanders as template designers and initiators.
    1. yurta2013
      yurta2013 10 June 2013 19: 06
      0
      Quote: ISO
      as it is planned here that the brilliant tactics in the Wehrmacht were only enough for the army group center, the army groups north and south did not shine with new tactical methods and acted more carefully, and their results were much more modest.

      Actually, the success of GA "Center" is easier to explain by the better balance of forces. It was in the center that the main strike forces of the Wehrmacht were then concentrated (including 2 tank groups), and the main tank forces of the Red Army were located in the Kiev Military District. By the way, the best operational intelligence of Germany (in the words of Hitler), Manstein, attacked Leningrad with his corps.
      1. Starina_hank
        Starina_hank 13 June 2013 18: 37
        +1
        Read about the battles near Rzhev, and think about the numerical superiority of the GA Center.
  22. Eric
    Eric 10 June 2013 15: 46
    +1
    Quote: Corsair
    And we worked them out ...
    And about Skorzeny, who is HE against this person?
    Starinov Ilya Grigorievich

    We are waiting for an article about this hero from you! hi
  23. alexdol
    alexdol 10 June 2013 17: 07
    +3
    I liked the article, I generally like it, as Oles Buzina writes. In a book, it seems, the authorship of Maxim Kalashnikov, I happened to read how they threw troops from Siberians near Moscow! I dedicated this verse to this event:
    This is the fate of history

    Forty-first year, near Moscow
    The Nazis are leading the offensive ...
    Siberians, your first fight,
    Baptism wars

    At the bare line
    The capital opened before the enemy
    And he rushed, it was already,
    But the faces were distorted in fear ...

    Close the breakthrough - this is the order!
    And there is no time to think ...
    He fell to earth from heaven immediately
    Siberian Regiment, spreading its wings!

    They rushed into the void
    On low shaving flight!
    This is to see in reality
    None of us could in the world ...

    And immediately to the battle, who survived,
    How the thunder of heaven burst
    And the German numbed in fear
    What a phenomenon he faced!

    Heroes - yes, heroes!
    An example of solid heroism
    And though you were wingless,
    What Eagles gave the Fatherland!

    Such is the destiny of history,
    Store all dates and events,
    In order to know their Limit,
    We make new discoveries ...

    I invite everyone to my litas page http://stihi.ru/avtor/alexdol
  24. Mister X
    Mister X 10 June 2013 17: 32
    +1
    It is announced that Johnson is going to write memoirs in his museum.
    Observers believe that in general the rest of his life
    President Johnson will devote to justifying his past,
    in particular, the policy that led to the disaster in Vietnam.

    Heinrich Borovik
    "Favorites"

    Purely hypothetical:
    - could Herr Skorzeny write memoirs in his defense?
    And to complain that Madame Rasputitsa and General Frost defeated him, who behaved not in a gentlemanly way?
  25. Orel
    Orel 10 June 2013 17: 41
    +2
    The stronger the opponent, the more pleasant and significant the victory is. Interesting article. A look from the other side. Interesting conclusions and conclusions on the facts of the repressions of 1937 and on conspiracies. I’ve been studying the history of the Second World War for a long time, but I didn’t think about why there really was no attempt on Stalin in 1941, because the situation at the front was catastrophic, but everyone believed in victory, and Hitler and his generals were not so lucky, and thank God ...
    1. yurta2013
      yurta2013 10 June 2013 19: 13
      0
      Quote: Orel
      somehow I didn’t think about why there was really no attempt on Stalin in 1941, because the situation at the front was catastrophic

      Maybe because it was not because the situation was catastrophic? As you know, "horses do not change at the crossing." Everyone who was capable of a coup at that time (if there were any) could not help but realize that it would be like death to undertake a restructuring of the country's governance at such a moment.
  26. Black
    Black 10 June 2013 17: 59
    +4
    Lost because our grandfathers rested their knees on the ground, and gave them the most Berlin!
    And then this wise guy is looking for reasons (and because of him, we didn’t stand by his side, only repressions won !!!).
  27. biglow
    biglow 10 June 2013 18: 04
    +2
    The battered warriors will always find excuses why they could not win. The spirit of the people could allow us to win, and the rest is rhetoric. Stalingrad showed it well
  28. Strashila
    Strashila 10 June 2013 18: 28
    +3
    "THE CLEANING OF 1937 STRENGTHENED THE RED ARMY" - the proportion of officers in the army with special and higher education in 1941 was higher than in 1937.
    "ABVER DID NOT COMMUNICATE ANYTHING IMPORTANT" - the Abwehr had a head start at the initial stage of the war, the fifth column of Germans, as history has shown, had roots set down even before the First World War. Yes, and the acquired territories had branched out German agents. Everything changed with the stabilization of the front at the end of 1941, they cleaned out what they could, and then Moscow agents were on one hand.
    “WE DIDN'T KNOW” - the Finnish company was given the USSR hard, but conclusions were drawn. The experience of operating the equipment in winter conditions was not valuable, even if it was given in blood. Conclusions were drawn on field nutrition and uniforms.
    "TECHNICAL DIFFERENCE" - there was no less marauding in the occupied territories, and learning history ... about Napoleon.
    "EXCELLENT RUSSIAN INTELLIGENCE" - what was it.
    In general, everything, as always ... if victory ... then the generals, will fly ... then Hitler's fault.
  29. rexby63
    rexby63 10 June 2013 19: 11
    +1
    Not enough gas and ammunition


    Vaguely reminiscent of something.

    there is no winter oil for engines and weapons - engines start up is problematic. Instead of winter uniforms, sand-colored kits intended for the African corps fell into the troops


    I get it. What does the African Corps have to do with it?
  30. DZ_98_B
    DZ_98_B 10 June 2013 19: 29
    +1
    And YOU HERE TO DO IT !!! BECAUSE AND UNLOADED !!!!!!
  31. Boricello
    Boricello 10 June 2013 19: 33
    +9
    I will not argue with the current "historians" but I will repeat what my late grandfather said, who passed Finnish and German. There was an officer, the commander of an anti-aircraft battery. When I asked him about the purges 37-39, "is it true that they took all the unwanted, etc. ... He told me that it was the perpetrators who mostly fell under the repression. And if you hadn't put any order in the troops at 30, there would have been no victory ...
  32. klinok1
    klinok1 10 June 2013 20: 09
    +1
    It is noteworthy that P. Sudoplatov, in his memoirs, speaks of the Siberian divisions in a different context: the divisions were transferred to Moscow not thanks to information from Sorge, but because there were simply no other troops for the defense of Moscow at that time ... To Sorge himself, in terms of evaluating the development data, the Stavka was rather cautious, to say the least. He also talks about the "Red Chapel" ... At that time, thanks to the analysis of the incoming information, they trusted the Cambidian five most of all, which, apparently, Otto had no idea about.
  33. Revolver
    Revolver 10 June 2013 20: 15
    +1
    Thirty-four on a color photo from above - the 85th series. Such in 1941 was not like near Moscow - on drawing boards did not yet exist. And there were those below on black and white, with a gun 76 mm. The author to learn materiel.
  34. Revolver
    Revolver 10 June 2013 20: 15
    0
    Thirty-four on a color photo from above - the 85th series. Such in 1941 was not like near Moscow - on drawing boards did not yet exist. And there were those below on black and white, with a gun 76 mm. The author to learn materiel.
  35. tomaz99
    tomaz99 10 June 2013 20: 28
    +1
    Fernmelder (binder) on Russian roads.
  36. Bosk
    Bosk 10 June 2013 20: 35
    +3
    Sorry for the Germans ... this is how much our grandfathers and great-grandfathers gave them in the neck ... and they are looking for a reason ... but they had a smart chancellor who was not looking for reasons ... he was just looking at the ratio of victories and defeats. .. came to the simple conclusion "We have nothing to do there" ... they didn’t obey and went on the old rake.
  37. uzer 13
    uzer 13 10 June 2013 20: 43
    +6
    Hitler decided to attack the USSR solely because he enjoyed the enormous support of the German people.Easy victories in Europe, the allies that appeared, also played a role.It was perfectly obvious that the stake was made on blitzkrieg and the German army was not preparing to fight in the winter. It was necessary to capture the European part of the USSR and oil-producing regions in the south. Germany experienced a large deficit of hydrocarbons, and diesel fuel was so small that all of it was transferred to submarines. The fact that the Russians would fight was a complete surprise. According to theory, the population in Russia was at odds with the Bolsheviks, therefore, no special resistance was supposed either to the army or to the masses. The confusion accompanying the hostilities, supply failures, as we see, is characteristic to one degree or another of all the warring parties. Look for the reasons for the defeat in the betrayal of the generals, in cold winters, poor supply .Although the reason is very simple, and even not taken into account by the Fuhrer, this is the Russian people.
    1. VADIMKRSK
      VADIMKRSK 12 June 2013 03: 20
      +1
      Russians will fight - surprise! In the winter. In boots, damn it ...
  38. DmitriRazumov
    DmitriRazumov 10 June 2013 20: 48
    +4
    Memoirists of such a spill are very similar, because their paradigm of defeat in the Second World War is based approximately on the following provisions:
    1. The Germans were well done and brave soldiers, because all of Europe surrendered to them without a fight.
    2. German intelligence was inhabited by traitors and did not report to Hitler at the time that the Red Army was much stronger than it seemed.
    3. The Germans were defeated by terrible Russian frosts and impassability in Russia.
    4. The Russians won in numbers: "There were ten of us, and there were a hundred of them, and both were wearing felt boots."
    All this has already set the teeth on edge so much that it is not at all interesting to read the works of such "writers".
    No in-depth analysis of the situation, real figures obtained from independent sources, comparison of facts, etc.
    Those. these works on the theme: "Why did we not defeat the Russians" have no historical value and do not possess at least the slightest historical accuracy, and the emotions of not very literate Nazi SS men are already tired of ...
    1. Selevc
      Selevc 10 June 2013 23: 59
      -4
      Quote: DmitriRazumov
      1. The Germans were well done and brave soldiers, because all of Europe surrendered to them without a fight.

      Well, somewhere it was like that until about 1941 ...
      Quote: DmitriRazumov
      2. German intelligence was inhabited by traitors and did not report to Hitler at the time that the Red Army was much stronger than it seemed.
      I think that they more objectively evaluated us than we otherwise would not have been defeated by so many Red Army divisions in 1941 near the western border ...
      Quote: DmitriRazumov
      3. The Germans were defeated by terrible Russian frosts and impassability in Russia.

      This also affected the course of Blitzkrieg ... look at the third photo in the article ... it shows Fritz in winter form - this form is suitable for European winter, but not for frosts -3 ... They screwed up that much in the fall in the winter of the 30st ... And in general, the Germans fought better in the summer than in the winter, frozen ... :)))
      Quote: DmitriRazumov
      4. The Russians won in numbers: "There were ten of us, and there were a hundred of them, and both were wearing felt boots."
      And so it is, in principle, it is only worth comparing the losses of Germany and the USSR in the Second World War !!! Now they seem to say that the USSR lost about 26 million people. No matter how the Germans bombed, as if they mocked the civilian population - such a number of people is difficult to even physically kill ... Such losses have only one reasonable explanation - the large losses of the Red Army in offensive operations ...
      1. DmitriRazumov
        DmitriRazumov 11 June 2013 15: 05
        +3
        Dear Andrey, I absolutely did not want to get involved in a polemic on these obvious issues, because already in the discussions of many similar publications on this site, as well as in this one, users quite competently and informatively reveal the flawed worldview of the authors of the memoirs of war criminals Der dritte Reich. But then he drew attention to the fact that you are from Ukraine, and in Ukraine, especially now, our “sworn partners” have launched one of the main battlefields of the information war against the Russian Federation. And this war, as you know, is much more effective than a hot war. Allies of the opponents of Russia and the USSR naturally are local authorities, as here there is mutual interest that lies in the field of cooling down the achievements of the Soviet and Russian periods, and, consequently, the time when our country was a single state and the aforementioned specific princes did not have the authority to plunder its resources for their own selfish purposes. Therefore, nevertheless, I decided to give a number of justifications for the given point of view.
        Quote: Selevc
        Quote: DmitriRazumov
        1. The Germans were well done and brave soldiers, because all of Europe surrendered to them without a fight.
        Well, somewhere it was like that until about 1941 ...

        Western Europe regarded the USSR as its worst enemy, like Russia before, for many centuries. Therefore, the tactics of building a “sanitary” cordon from countries that did not have their own military and political potential around the USSR (Poland, Czechoslovakia, the Baltic states, etc.) were adopted. When the Nazi party appeared in Germany. declared its main task the expansion of living space to the east (Mein Kampf), European politicians did their utmost to help Hitler in matters of seizing power and realizing his main goals. The leading European powers, much earlier than the USSR, entered into friendship agreements with Nazi Germany and received guarantees of non-aggression (Munich agreement, etc.). France did not take any action in response to the introduction of still weak Reichswehr units in the Rhine region. At that time, the soldiers of the German army did not even have enough ammunition, the artillery was without shells, and the bags of the German officers contained the order of the Führer: "Immediately retreat, in case of retaliation by the French." From that moment on, Hitler became not just a corporal who stole general's boots, but a leader of the nation expressing its innermost interests. And the Europeans helped this. This was followed by Saar, Anschluess of Austria, the occupation of Czechoslovakia, etc. Neither England nor France intervened in this process, although according to bilateral agreements with the occupied countries they had to declare war on Nazi Germany. Moreover, all of Stalin's proposals for joint military operations against Hitler remained unanswered.
        Those. Hitler received carte blanche from European politicians for the occupation of the countries of the cordon and for military operations against the USSR. At the same time, the Nazis got the economic and industrial potential of these highly developed countries without firing a shot, which allowed Germany to significantly strengthen the Wehrmacht.
        Further, the Germans easily cut France, Kotor. didn’t even have time to carry out mobilization, not to transfer the armed forces to the highest levels of combat readiness, with tank mites and got on the platter another industrial and strategic area within the empire.
        So what is the merit of the German soldiers and armed forces here? European politicians surrendered to Hitler vast territories with enormous industrial and economic potential, and at the same time placed the authority of the possessed maniac inside the country at an unattainable level.
        1. DmitriRazumov
          DmitriRazumov 11 June 2013 16: 51
          +4
          Quote: Selevc
          Quote: DmitriRazumov
          2. German intelligence was inhabited by traitors and did not report to Hitler at the time that the Red Army was much stronger than it seemed.
          I think that they more objectively evaluated us than we otherwise would not have been defeated by so many Red Army divisions in 1941 near the western border ...

          If you served in the army, you should know that there are several degrees of combat readiness: everyday, increased, military danger, and complete. I will not delve into the content of each of these events, but the essence is approximately as follows:
          The army, and especially the types and types of troops equipped with heavy and sophisticated equipment (tank troops, aviation, navy, artillery, etc.) is a complex organizational and technical mechanism, an entire industry, dispersed throughout the country. Therefore, in order to achieve its highest potential, it requires a certain, not small, amount of time, finances, efforts of the whole country and its state and economic structures. For each of the degrees of combat readiness, military, technical, financial and other measures are envisaged. ultimately lead to the deployment of units and subunits as a combat fist that can cause damage to the enemy.
          Actually, if state A, which has approximately the same military and economic potential (Germany in 1941 possessed the potential of all of Europe exceeding the potential of the USSR), starts unexpectedly (in state B there is no clear idea of ​​the start date of the war), the war against state B Having not had time to transfer its armed forces to full battlefield, then in the first initial period of the war, state A has an undeniable advantage and the ability to succeed. At the same time, State B’s task includes: deterring the enemy with all available forces and means, regardless of losses, which was accomplished; evacuation of military industry from areas of occupation, transfer of industry to military rails; mobilization of all the country's resources to fight the enemy. In my opinion, the USSR coped with this task, unlike the West.
          The losses at the initial stage of the war were indeed not small, but they were caused by the current situation. I suggest you recall that the entire French army surrendered to the Germans with all their combat potential, replenishing their arsenals with excellent tanks, artillery, cars, etc. And in 1940, the French were objectively no weaker than the Germans (take at least tank troops and heavy artillery). If you add to this the Czechoslovak army, the army of Austria, Kotor. in its entirety was included in the ranks of Wehrmacht (this is stronger than the surrender of some divisions and armies there, this is surrender at the state level), then the picture of the first, albeit heavy defeats, of the Red Army does not seem so depressing. Now add to this picture the surrender of Norway, the occupation of Denmark and other European countries. in fact, they surrendered their aircraft to Hitler without a fight at all. The actions of the so-called Germany’s allies (Bulgaria, ...), who feared direct occupation and also essentially surrendered without a fight. Is that better?
          1. DmitriRazumov
            DmitriRazumov 11 June 2013 17: 16
            +4
            Quote: DmitriRazumov
            Quote: DmitriRazumov
            3. The Germans were defeated by terrible Russian frosts and impassability in Russia.
            This also affected the course of Blitzkrieg ... look at the third photo in the article ... it shows Fritz in winter form - this form is suitable for European winter, but not for frosts -3 ... They screwed up that much in the fall in the winter of the 30st ... And in general, the Germans fought better in the summer than in the winter, frozen ... :)))

            The Germans that did not know geography? They did not know that in Russia in winter the temperature sometimes drops below -20C?
            Are they really stupid or what? The military-political leadership of Germany hoped to end the war in late September. So these are miscalculations of military planning and they relate already to the ability to conduct hostilities, and not to climatic conditions.
            From the experience of your own family:
            My grandfather was part of those same Siberian divisions. were transferred from the Far East to help Moscow. So at the end of October their train passed through Petropavlovsk (North Kazakhstan region at the present time), my father saw him dressed in a summer uniform: overcoat, cotton, windings, fish-fur boots. This 413 rifle division in early November, etc. restrained the attacks of Guderian’s tank army on the southern approaches to the capital. At the end of October, frosts near Moscow at that time reached -20, in November to -30. Nobody changed their clothes and understaffed with equipment. So both ours and the Germans in uniform were in the same conditions. Guderian, as you know, did not take Tula and did not move a kilometer further, although he had a clear advantage in both technology and armament and in the number of l / s.
            Well, the Germans did not take into account the need to bring warm clothing and use the appropriate fuel and lubricants, then what is the problem in Stalingrad? There they already had uniforms and experience in waging war in the winter.
            "The first warm winter kits appeared in the Wehrmacht in the fall of 1942. The command of the German army, concerned about the problems of winter 41-42, issued an order to develop a comfortable type of winter clothing that did not restrict movement. The kit took root well in the army and was a favorite type of winter clothing. on the Eastern Front. It included four elements: jacket, trousers, comforter and mittens. Originally, the autumn side was gray or olive-gray. The winter, of course, was white. The fabric on both sides was cotton or viscose, with a water-repellent impregnation, similar to the one that was used to make cloaks - ZELTBAHN, woolen batting was used as insulation.
            In general, summing up, we can say that it was on the basis of the winter kits of the Wehrmacht after the war that many NATO and Warsaw Pact countries created their own samples of warm military clothing. This proves that the Germans have found a pretty good solution to the problem of winter uniforms. "
            1. DmitriRazumov
              DmitriRazumov 11 June 2013 17: 49
              +2
              Quote: DmitriRazumov
              Quote: DmitriRazumov
              4. The Russians won in numbers: "There were ten of us, and there were a hundred of them, and both were wearing felt boots."
              And so it is, in principle, it is only worth comparing the losses of Germany and the USSR in the Second World War !!! Now they seem to say that the USSR lost about 26 million people. No matter how the Germans bombed, as if they mocked the civilian population - such a number of people is difficult to even physically kill ... Such losses have only one reasonable explanation - the large losses of the Red Army in offensive operations ...

              Well, here it is necessary to separate, as they say, flies from cutlets:
              Losses per military unit of the USSR and Germany (Wehrmacht + SS + their satellites + allies + various legionnaires + volunteers and drafted from the occupied countries as part of the German Armed Forces + unknown losses of the Volkssturm, Hitler Youth, Todt organization, the Labor Service, the Imperial Railways Service , police respectively) are roughly comparable.
              In Russia, official data on losses in the Great Patriotic War are considered to be data published by a group of researchers led by the adviser of the Military Memorial Center of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation Grigory Krivosheev in 1993 [1]. According to updated data (2001), the losses were as follows:
              • Human casualties of the USSR - 6,3 million military personnel killed and died from wounds, 555 thousand dead from diseases, killed as a result of incidents condemned to be shot (according to reports of troops, medical institutions, military tribunals) and 4,5 million people who died captured and missing [2]. Total demographic losses (including the dead civilian population in the occupied territory and increased mortality in the rest of the USSR from the adversities of the war) - 26,6 million people;
              • Germany’s casualties - 4,270 million military personnel who died, died from wounds, went missing (including 442,1 thousand dead in captivity), another 910,4 thousand returned from captivity after the war (excluding prisoners of war from among Soviet citizens, serving in the Wehrmacht) [3];
              • Human casualties of Germany’s allies - 806 thousand soldiers killed (including 137,8 thousand killed in captivity), another 662,2 thousand returned from captivity after the war [3].
              • The irretrievable losses of the armies of the USSR and Germany (including prisoners of war) - 11,5 million and 8,6 million people. (not counting 1,6 million prisoners of war after May 9, 1945, the unknown losses of the Volksturm, Hitler Youth, Todt organization, the Labor Service, the Imperial Railways, the police), respectively. The ratio of the irretrievable losses of the armies of the USSR and Germany, according to the center of Grigory Krivosheev, with satellites is 1,3: 1.
              • Here we must add the losses of the Allies of the Reich: Hungary, Spain ..., l / s of the legions of the national SS formations, etc.
              • In addition, in 1945 there was no normal accounting for losses in Germany.
              On the territory of the USSR and other countries, there was a powerful machine for the destruction of civilians, consisting of KZ and countless stalag, accounting for which. I did not go at all. Therefore, the losses of the civilian population of the USSR are so great. It will be stronger than the Holocaust.
              1. Starina_hank
                Starina_hank 13 June 2013 18: 58
                +1
                By the way, on whose side are the losses of policemen, traitors, military units from our compatriots who fought on the German side
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. fedorovith
        fedorovith 12 June 2013 12: 07
        +1
        Add to the losses of Germany the losses of its allies ..
      4. Alex
        Alex 15 September 2013 12: 15
        +3
        Quote: Selevc (1)
        No matter how the Germans bombed, no matter how they scoffed at the civilian population, such a number of people is difficult even to physically kill ...

        And they did it. True, for this it was necessary not only to build death factories (this was for the industrialization of the process, with a German scope and pedantry), but also to whip up Babi Yars and completely burn the villages. In Novogrudok, the museum has a list of villages that were destroyed by the Germans only during the winter of 1941-42, there are three dozen items there. And how many of these Novogrudoks are all over Belarus and Ukraine? It would be a shame to make such a fuss.
    2. vitamin ky
      vitamin ky 11 June 2013 20: 08
      +3
      everything is correct, everything is true, but it’s an ambush in another, yes, all these hysterical memories, of the enemy’s assassins, yes of the enemy (by the way, ssmans should be shot every single one for their crimes against the peoples of Europe and the USSR, all without exception, that’s the point) and we really urged them to read - the more they are printed and reprinted - much more often than ours and it’s insulting and painful — the danger is that we are tired of the lie — and we know how to distinguish it — and here is the younger generation — that’s yes - at the moment, the ramontization and osseksaniye of the greatest tragedy of the 20th century - is in full swing -that example -this article -I drew attention to-how many pluses and how many minuses it impresses knew or this article is harmful to impossible -creation-saboteur-enemy -cupant and a war criminal — and talking about him like a chutli not about geor — right now, I think I’ll think that if you allow such opuses to the network — it’s also necessary to add from the memoirs and statistics of our military commanders and soldiers — otherwise there’s a chance to educate our otomok on the exploits of our heroes-strive for zero
    3. Starina_hank
      Starina_hank 13 June 2013 18: 49
      0
      The Germans were well done and brave soldiers somewhere around 43 years old and in some places later
  39. Alf
    Alf 10 June 2013 20: 59
    +1
    "The Reich's war strategy was better," says Skorzeny. "Our generals had a stronger imagination."
    Imagination is, of course, good. But, sometimes, it is necessary to go down to the sinful earth. Consider the capabilities of your army and industry and compare the result with the enemy.
    "One of the reasons for the defeat of the Germans, according to the SS veteran, was hidden sabotage among the German generals:" In the sanctuary of the old Prussian system - the General Staff of the Ground Forces - a small group of generals still hesitated between tradition and innovation, some regretfully parted with privileges ... For people like Beck and his successor Halder ... it was hard to obey the man whom some called the “Czech corporal.” Skorzeny pays a lot of attention to the military conspiracy and believes that it existed in the form of secret opposition to the Fuhrer long before 1944. "
    Great ! It turns out that the conspiracy prevented. But who prevented the Gestapo from revealing this conspiracy?
    “Unlike Hitler, Stalin created a system completely obeying him. Therefore, in the fall of 1941, when the Germans were standing near Moscow, there was no conspiracy of generals in the Red Army. But in the Wehrmacht there was three years later. Although before Berlin at that time there was It is impossible to imagine that Stalin was blown up by one of the "friends" in the Kremlin, as Colonel Stauffenberg tried to do in Wolfschanz with the beloved Fuhrer. "
    Stalin believed that getting secret briefcases from intelligence was important, but even more important than not getting a briefcase with a bomb from intelligence.
    "ABVER DID NOT REPORT ANYTHING IMPORTANT. If Hitler then knew about the disinformation that his intelligence chief was giving him," WE DIDN'T KNOW. This is one of the most frequent complaints of the great saboteur: "
    So adolf aloizovich needed to shoot his scouts more often, so that they would be more engaged in their direct business, rather than taking their own scores.
    "TECHNICAL DIFFERENCE. The entire calculation of the German offensive doctrine was based on the high mobility of motorized units. But the motors require spare parts and constant maintenance. And with this the German army did not have order. The diversity of vehicles in one unit interfered." In 1941, - on my own experience service in the Reich division, Skorzeny complains - each German car company continued to produce different models of its brand in the same way as before the war. The large number of models did not allow to create an adequate stock of spare parts. In motorized divisions there were about 2 thousand vehicles sometimes 50 different types and models, although 10-18 would have been enough. In addition, our artillery regiment had more than 200 trucks, represented by 15 models. "
    And who is to blame for this? It seems that the best German staff in the world trained with centuries-old traditions of Prussian officers did not know that the spare parts of German trucks did not fit French, Czech, and English trucks. That artillery should be systematized and reduced to types, that the crystallization temperature of German gasoline is 5,4 degrees, and in the enemy country the temperature in winter is -20-normal. For some reason, no culprits were found.
    About the boots. There were five of our soldiers, twenty-five Russians, and both in felt boots.
  40. amp
    amp 10 June 2013 21: 19
    +3
    I do not agree with Skorzeny. Much of what he says about the USSR can be said about the Allies and the Germans. British intelligence was also very good. The Germans could penetrate the frontal armor of British tanks Matilda only from 88 mm anti-aircraft guns. As for the Faust of Potron, we only had trophies. The Germans appeared not only in Fausts, but also a panzashrek grenade launcher, and among the Americans, bazookas. There was nothing similar in the Soviet army.

    About German strategy, I also have a low opinion. Do not confuse strategy with tactics. In tactics, yes, the Germans were masters, and their whole strategy was to scare the USSR to death. The expectation that such a huge country as the USSR can be won in a couple or three months is complete frailty. especially considering the quality of Soviet roads. In the first weeks, yes, they intimidated the army and the population, but the fright cannot last forever. The initial shock passed and Russian men and women rolled up their sleeves and began to beat Nazi pigs.
  41. reichsmarshal
    reichsmarshal 10 June 2013 21: 21
    -3
    The article is interesting. But I do not agree that our generals were worse. Just until the liberation of Kiev, our troops did not have the same effective tank-motorized formations as the Wehrmacht had in the person of the tank. divisions and corps. When they gained proper efficiency, the offensive of the Red Army became almost irresistible and inevitable. As for the operational decisions of the red generals, they were almost always true. But the times were no longer Suvorov, and not everything and not always depended on the decisions taken.
  42. ilya63
    ilya63 10 June 2013 21: 25
    +4
    he wasn’t the first to speak about the purges of 1937 in such a context, but as for Tukhachevsky, there’s absolutely nothing to discuss here, a poor commander (not like a lieutenant in the tsar’s army he could have managed to command a battalion no higher), he’s completely screwed up his armament (quick-fire and anti-tank he pushed the guns in, there was neither normal air defense nor anti-tank defense, tanks weren’t his skate too, etc.), he simply didn’t have enough literacy, rode on past merits, and retrain late (I didn’t stand flush with Slashchev), and my grandfather He said who didn’t put the guilty party (they planted him, then released him, he was the head of the Baranavichy station before the war)
    1. mark7
      mark7 10 June 2013 23: 14
      +2
      I agree, my grandfather also served with Blucher, somehow in the smoking room he said something in his defense, arrived at night, took him away, released three days later, then was silent for a week like a fish even with his wife, but nothing came to Berlin then, though all was wounded, so that everyone figured out it was inappropriate to listen to Solzhenits ...
  43. pinecone
    pinecone 10 June 2013 21: 56
    +1
    Quote: svskor80
    By the way, he also smiled about England, here Hitler made a sound decision - they would not have taken the island, and if they had taken anyway there would have been a second front in the person of the United States.


    With the fall of Britain, Americans would lose their strategic foothold for warfare in Europe.
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 11 June 2013 00: 38
      +1
      Quote: pinecone
      With the fall of Britain, Americans would lose their strategic bridgehead for fighting in Europe

      I want to add - the link to the powerful British fleet does not stand up to scrutiny, the fleet does not shine in the area of ​​coastal aviation.
  44. sanych your division
    sanych your division 10 June 2013 22: 00
    +1
    now is the era of supermenity. somewhere in this vein: no shit what enemies are strong and cruel! Well nothing! now superman will come and show everyone! but we do not need to try! and why? there is a superman! and this has been deposited in the brain of a generation since childhood ... I remember how after going out "only old men go to battle" the whole yard was sick with the profession of a military pilot! shoot down at least one enemy plane! and life has already been lived for a reason! and "in the area of ​​special attention"? there guys do not kill in hundreds, but how many guys raved about blue berets? Lord, let those on top hear our words. and then what happened and who will go to death near Moscow? all superman will sit down to wait ...
  45. Ermolaich
    Ermolaich 10 June 2013 22: 08
    +4
    Reading the latest complaints about the lost war, I was not surprised at the exaggeration in the memoirs of the role of natural-climatic, military-technical and other factors. But the human, moral and psychological factor cannot be thrown off the scales of Victory. At the same time, the author of the memoirs clearly did not aim at a systematic analysis of the causes of defeat, but singled out those that were especially memorable or vivid against the background of the war in this "uncivilized" country. As you can see, the would-be conquerors generally have a standard set of reasons for failure. History had to be taught, and not to meddle, where not asked ...
    At the same time, we, the current Siberians, are pleased with the residual fear in the mind of O. Skorzenni, which has survived even after the war before the Siberian soldiers. However, it hurts that almost all commentators pass by discussing statements about the role of Siberians in the defense and counter-offensive near Moscow and in the overall outcome of the war.
    However, Marshal K.K. Rokossovsky wrote: "Among our wonderful soldiers, the Siberians were especially stubborn."
    No less significant was Marshal Rodion Yakovlevich Malinovsky: “Respect and deep universal love for the Urals and Siberians was established because there are no fewer better warriors than the Uralets and Sibiryak in the world. Therefore, involuntarily, the hand writes these words with a capital ".
    The memoirs of our countryman Chashchin Valentin Isakovich, a war veteran from s. Shuttles of the Kazachinsky district of the Krasnoyarsk Territory. For his whole life he remembered the dialogue of two officers in the autumn of 1942 in Stalingrad:
    “You feel good, you have as many as 18 people left in your platoon!” And I have only 10 fighters.
    - Good, good, but you have four out of ten Siberians!
    - So the whole defense rests on them ...
    1. Stas57
      Stas57 11 June 2013 10: 10
      +2
      However, it hurts that almost all commentators pass by discussing statements about the role of Siberians in the defense and counter-offensive near Moscow and in the overall outcome of the war.


      why only Siberians, and the rest worthless chtol at all?
      the whole Soviet people fought, and not just mythical Siberians
  46. Bobrovsky
    Bobrovsky 10 June 2013 22: 11
    +2
    Thanks to the "brilliant" theories of Tukhachevsky and the personnel trained by him (for 10 years he supervised higher military education in the army), the country's strategic reserves were pulled to the border. We managed to take something from half of these warehouses, and the remaining half went completely to the Germans. 8 million boots were lost (before the war, they were going to change the army's shoes from boots with windings). They also got 5 million rifles. The Germans had supply difficulties. And we have? Until 1943, they swore for every wasted cartridge and shell. It came to pass that the three of us fought with one rifle and ten cartridges. With a monstrous effort, the Germans were held back, and then their spine was broken. Read here on the Internet the memoirs of the infantry officer A.I.Shumilin "Vanka company". He wrote for himself, without hope of publication, and there is the whole truth, how our grandfathers and fathers got the war.
    1. amp
      amp 10 June 2013 22: 36
      +1
      Well, the three of them with one rifle are the exception rather than the rule. Strongly reminiscent of the film Stalingrad.

      And thanks for the information about the book, this kind of book is worth reading.
    2. Ermolaich
      Ermolaich 10 June 2013 22: 42
      +1
      I confirm and support my colleague - "Vanka company" is really a worthwhile thing !!!!
    3. Kostya pedestrian
      Kostya pedestrian 11 June 2013 03: 58
      +1
      I’m very happy for you that in Russia they revived the old Khrestish custom of an evil and treacherous enemy to bless and feed, and blame their own.

      Well, Stalin had a dislike for Tukhochevsky, and the marshal himself could have been mistaken about the two-tower ground cruisers, but he also proposed advanced ideas for that period, modern combat, the transition, for example, to motorized groups, which he successfully implemented fascists.

      Why should we use the black-and-white approach, is it not better to choose the best from our culture, and learn a lesson from the worst so as not to make mistakes.

      PieS: and the concentration of the CIA in the Belostotsky cauldron was already after the arrest of Tukhachevsky, and, as I see it, was undertaken due to the fact that the Nazis were supposed to strike through Ukraine, and they wanted to use the flank for a counter-strike. As far as it was thought out, we should sit.
  47. svp67
    svp67 10 June 2013 22: 36
    +1
    Like everyone, Skorzeny was struck by the "magnificent T-34."

    It is strange why they had not noticed before, maybe there were a slightly different opinion, but here I just had to somehow make excuses ...

    A German officer is photographed next to the Soviet T-34 tanks abandoned on the road near the village of Cheremoshnya. T-34 tanks with the L-11 gun release February — March 1941 of the year. Most likely, the T-34 tanks were abandoned due to malfunctions. Probably, the vehicles belong to the 10-th Panzer Division of the 15-th Mechanized Corps of the 6-th Army of the South-Western Front. On the tower hatches of tanks marked with airborne identification.
    a.

    German soldiers visiting a wrecked Soviet T-34-76 tank of the 1940 model of the year with an L-11 gun near the wall of a village house. Tank from the 6 mechanized corps. Machine manufactured by the factory №183 February – March 1941 year
  48. uizik
    uizik 10 June 2013 23: 38
    +2
    Everyone saw the war with their own eyes and appraised it accordingly!
  49. Genady1976
    Genady1976 11 June 2013 00: 29
    +4
    Poems L, WHEEL
    Music by V. KRUCHININ

    He was driving from the hospital
    I went to my wife, yes, to my wife.
    He showed, showed her the first order,
    What's on le ... what's on the left.

    And his wife asked:
    What kind of feat did he do?
    What in battle, what in battle he distinguished himself,
    As a reward ... how did you deserve a reward?

    He hugged his wife tight
    And he answered slowly, slowly:
    - At me, in my chest, Anyuta,
    Hidden ru ... hidden Russian soul.

    I was no different
    Nothing done, not done.
    Only a country, only my country, Russia
    Bezazav ... selflessly I loved.

    And I got the award,
    Because I'm a soldier, I'm a soldier
    And in battle, and in battle, did not know mercy,
    Not a pack ... did not turn back.

    Don't be sad about me
    I can’t die, I can’t.
    Saves, protects from the death of malice
    To hate ... to a hated enemy.

    And when I come again,
    Having finished business in war, in war,
    Look, look, look at the new order,
    What's on the right ... what's on the right side.

    1943
  50. Bern
    Bern 11 June 2013 09: 51
    +5
    The memoirs of the "chief special forces officer of the Second World War" look like an excuse for a guilty schoolboy: "we did not know, we were not warned, we were betrayed ..."! There was no need to go to us! And no excuses can erase the selflessness, courage and patriotism of the Soviet people in those terrible years!