Military Review

Military-technical cooperation between Russia and Ukraine: it does not bring together

31
Military-technical cooperation between Russia and Ukraine: it does not bring togetherOne of the ways of bringing Russia and Ukraine closer would be military-technical cooperation. The defense industry is one of those areas in which the division of our state has caused the greatest damage. The people employed in this industry were vitally connected with the interests of the united state, with its successes and achievements. They understood better than others the realities of the confrontation of the USSR by external forces and were least of all interested in the division of the state. And it is these people who have suffered the most from the destruction of the country.


But in practice, military-technical cooperation with Ukraine often gives new conflicts and reasons for contention. Below are illustrations from life.

The extension of the service life of the P-36M2 “Voevoda” ICBM will apparently now be carried out without the participation of specialists from the Ukrainian Yuzhnoye Design Bureau and the Yuzhmash Production Association. The 15P118М rocket complex with the Р-36М УТТХ and Р-36М2 missiles (according to the NATO classification - SS-18 Mod.5 and 6 "Satan") was developed in the Dnepropetrovsk Yuzhnoye Design Bureau. He also sow day remains the most important part of the Russian strategic nuclear forces, despite numerous misinformation that this complex is allegedly removed from service. The RVSN of Russia is armed with more than 50 missiles, the warranty period of operation of which was initially no more than 15 years. But until a new heavy complex is put on combat duty (the development is carried out by the Makeev State Center), it is necessary to extend the terms of operation of the old one. This was done in the framework of an agreement between the Russian government and the Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine. But the agreement expired last year. Now, apparently, to carry out work on the extension of the life to 2022 year will be the Russian experts, and not representatives of the developer. This situation is unlikely to strengthen cooperation, but more than logical. To depend on strategic nuclear safety from another state is simply impossible. Especially considering the close cooperation between Yuzhnoye Design Bureau and Yuzhmash, for example, with the American agency NASA on the Antares booster rocket. It uses some technical solutions that are related to strategic missiles, which are in service with the Russian strategic missile forces. For the same reason, it is impossible to interact with the Ukrainian side on the new complexes.

There was a lot of talk about the purchase and joint completion of the Ukraine missile cruiser (Project 1164 Atlant). This is the fourth ship of the series, launched in 1990, but is not yet completed - it rusts at the mooring wall of the plant named after 61 communards. The cruiser "Moscow" of the same project is the flagship of the Black Sea fleet. The cruiser Varyag is the flagship of the Pacific Fleet. The cruiser Marshal Ustinov is part of the Northern Fleet. Ukraine does not need a ship of this class. And there are simply no other buyers besides Russia. And for Russia, completion would be useful in terms of increasing the combat strength and capabilities of the fleet. The Russian fleet is experiencing a serious shortage of means of collective air defense. And the Atlanteans are among the few ships capable of protecting the warrant. In addition, there is a ready-made S-300F complex for him. Of course, the completion and modernization of "Ukraine" will require considerable funds and time. But, despite this, Russia has for many years been ready to buy a cruiser. Naturally, not at the price of a new one, otherwise, along with the costs of modernization, the cruiser will become gold.

But Ukraine does not want to sell the ship at the price of scrap metal, continuing to state that the readiness of the cruiser is, either 92, or 95 percent.

Here, it is worth remembering that Russia sold the aircraft-carrying cruiser Admiral Gorshkov to India for 1 dollars, in return for billion-dollar contracts for its modernization. So in the course of the restoration of the "Atlanta" shipbuilding and defense enterprises of Ukraine could receive live orders, which, moreover, would be really a common cause that unites us. But while “Ukraine” continues to rust at the pier.

Cooperation in the aircraft industry is no less difficult. There is still a high level of cooperation and common projects. For example, the An-70 military transport aircraft is one of the examples of the long-term construction. In April, the bench tests of the D-27 engine were completed, which fully confirmed its technical and operational characteristics. The Russian Defense Ministry signed the corresponding act, and the chairman of the state commission, Lieutenant Colonel Vladislav Bruskov, said that the propulsion system is ready for state flight tests. It would seem that the joint project has become closer to the launch of the series.

But no. The Minister of Defense of Ukraine, Pavel Lebedev, states that the tests of the aircraft are suspended: Russia is not fulfilling its obligations. He is echoed by the president of the state enterprise Antonov, Dmitry Kiva, who in Brazil announced the suspension of tests because Russian pilots do not participate in them. And Prime Minister Mykola Azarov added that Ukraine "will continue the production of the An-70 military transport aircraft even without Russia's participation." What happened? Did Russia, in fact, abandoned the aircraft, the development of which she had financed for so many years?

Not at all. But at the end of December, a meeting was held under the leadership of Sergei Shoigu, at which it was decided to adjust the procurement plans of An-70 in accordance with reality. The HPV-2020 laid out the purchase of 60 of these machines before the 2020 of the year. But now, when there is a single prototype of An-70, which still has to go through a test cycle, this figure looks completely unrealistic. And at the meeting it was decided to finance only the testing and completion of the second flight copy. And before starting the purchase and assembly of An-70 at the KAPO plant in Kazan, wait for the results of the tests of the aircraft.

Regarding the statements of the Ukrainian side, the Deputy Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation, Anatoly Antonov, expressed surprise, recalling that the Russian Ministry of Defense had completely fulfilled its financial obligations. At the same time, there are delays in financing from Ukraine. The project is funded by Kiev only 45%. Regarding the procurement plans, Anatoly Antonov said that after preliminary tests conducted by Antonov State Enterprise, state trials will begin, and after their completion, a decision will be made on serial procurement - all in strict accordance with intergovernmental agreements. That is, Russia is not going to give up on An-70. So what's the deal?

It seems that the case in intellectual property rights. In March of this year, Russia already acquired from Ukraine the rights to the military transport version of the An-140. This happened following the results of the same December meeting with Sergei Shoigu. On it was the need of the Russian law enforcement agencies about a hundred light military transport aircraft. Meanwhile, the Ilyushin group of companies, which had previously developed such an aircraft (IL-112, the program was closed in 2011), is now loaded with work on IL-76MD-90А and the joint Russian-Indian military transport aircraft MTA. And the Aviakor plant in Samara is already assembling An-140. This is a finished aircraft, three of which the Defense Ministry has already received. The release of the military transport version of the Russian-Ukrainian An-140 looks more preferable than the resumption of a still rather crude project. And the redemption of rights to its production is quite logical on the eve of a large military order. So why is it impossible to do the same with An-70, which was also actually created with Russian money?

Most likely, the management of the Antonov state enterprise is really interested in bringing An-70 practically ready without Russia's participation. Dmitry Kiva estimated demand for An-70 in the countries of Asia, Africa and Latin America in about 80 machines. It is no coincidence that he made his strange statement about the non-participation of Russia in the testing of An-70 at the international exhibition of armaments in Rio de Janeiro. Russia not only did not stop participation in the project, but it is interested in An-70, finances this project and in fact has no alternative to it. And the acquisition of intellectual property rights in An-70 is Russia's logical and natural desire. Here are just plans of the management of the state enterprise Antonov to privatize the holding and sell its shares in the west may suffer from the loss of rights to such a promising machine. Dmitry Kiva speaks quite openly about these plans:

“... We need to create a holding company on the basis of Antonov, which will include the Kharkov plant and plant number 410 civil aviation. Then it needs to be corporatized and sold. A controlling stake should be left with the state, and 49% should be sold. There are already Western investors who have expressed a desire to buy part of this company. ”

Well then. At present, the field of military-technical cooperation between Russia and Ukraine is not so much a path to rapprochement, as reasons for mutual accusations and offenses. Instead of restoring cooperation and technological chains, we observe processes that separate us even more from the second reunion. Why is this so?

The main reason should be sought in the own interests of enterprises, both Ukrainian and Russian. They have ceased to be part of a single complex, and their interests lie in the logic of their own development and survival, and not in the logic of the tasks of a single state.

In the period of the 90 of the last century, the products of the defense and high-tech industry of Russia and Ukraine were not in demand within our states. The industry was forced to survive. In many areas and product samples, Russian and Ukrainian enterprises have become competitors. And both in foreign markets and in the domestic, which is still largely common.

Nevertheless, a new century has come, and for Russia the period of timelessness has passed. She began to return to her historical way. Ukraine is still in geopolitical uncertainty. For, being the most important and traditional part of one country, it artificially maintains a state of disruption with other parts. It is because of the artificiality of her current “sovereign” state that she experiences most of the economic and political problems - but it is precisely this state that she officially considers her main achievement.

How can you overcome the current situation?

To begin with, you will have to understand that no mutually beneficial cooperation on an economic basis will bring us closer to the second reunion. Reunification is possible only through political means, since the very “sovereignty” of Ukraine is a purely political phenomenon, which has no roots either in the economy or in culture.

To count on a sustainable “economic” or “military-technical” reunion with the elite, which is fundamentally incapable of fulfilling obligations and at the same time insists on its independence and lack of control, is extremely naive.
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  1. Nevsky
    Nevsky 7 June 2013 15: 20 New
    +1
    Clear sky over Ukraine! wink
    1. Nicholas C.
      Nicholas C. 7 June 2013 16: 44 New
      +3
      no mutually beneficial cooperation on an economic basis will bring us closer to the second reunion. Reunification is possible only by political means, since the sovereignty of Ukraine itself is a purely political phenomenon that has no roots in either the economy or culture

      This is not a boy, but a husband. I am glad to hear wise opinions from Ukraine, and welcome the new (for me) serious author Alexander Gorbenko to this site.
      1. Grey68
        Grey68 7 June 2013 19: 15 New
        -5
        Minus to both you and the article. Politics and economy will not bring us closer. And the mom of my colleague who lives near Dnepropetrovsk is my cousin from Kharkov. Who in Russia has no relatives in Ukraine? I think there are not many of these. The rest went to W ...! With your politics, you even grab the economy.
    2. svp67
      svp67 7 June 2013 21: 27 New
      0
      Quote: Nevsky
      Clear sky above Ukraine

      Over everything? wink
  2. Russ69
    Russ69 7 June 2013 15: 28 New
    +2
    .. According to An-70, so much has already been written down, to be honest, I’m already confused. Where is the truth, where is the fiction and what is going on?
    The plane, in principle, is not bad, rather all this political fuss around it would have ended, and they would have come to some sort of decision.
    1. Interface
      Interface 7 June 2013 16: 26 New
      +6
      Military-technical cooperation between Russia and Ukraine: it does not bring together


      And do not bring it together.
      Once, the military-industrial complex of the Ukrainian SSR and the RSFSR was one, now there will only be a confrontation, because the Russian Federation will strive to prevent Ukraine from spoiling its indicators, and Ukraine will try to enter the market. We just produce similar equipment, it can be assumed, and since our equipment in terms of price and quality is in demand on the market, both countries proportionally receive from the sale of machines that are similar in appearance and characteristics.
      In Russia, it might not be so jealous of Ukraine’s success in military development if Ukraine chose relations with the CIS and the Russian Federation as the main reference point, and not NATO, and then the EU, in its time.
      Won Belarus - exports MAZ platforms to China, makes tanks and radio equipment, trucks, and so what? We have nothing against it, because we are confident in our ally.
  3. wulf66
    wulf66 7 June 2013 15: 36 New
    +2
    The rulers of Ukraine continue to look in Europe ... PU. Condolences to the inhabitants of Eastern Ukraine.
    1. Melchakov
      Melchakov 7 June 2013 15: 39 New
      +8
      Quote: wulf66
      Condolences to the inhabitants of Eastern Ukraine.

      but what about the rest of Ukraine, are there no people there? A bunch of fascist schizophrenics from Lviv does not mean that everyone is there.
  4. atos_kin
    atos_kin 7 June 2013 15: 40 New
    +3
    Until the "vector" (now and earlier "Victor") of the Euro-Atlantic orientation rusts, there will be no real cooperation.
  5. Truffoff
    Truffoff 7 June 2013 15: 41 New
    +1
    Yes, buy up all production there and work fine.
  6. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 7 June 2013 15: 44 New
    +4
    Ah brothers Ukrainians .. all of you are tormented by the choice .. ??? Europe and NATO needed you when Russia was accused of all mortal sins as the Balts (it’s excusable) .. you are troubled there .. yes, and we too .. I think that's enough for the joy of our enemies to swear and conflict ..
  7. Nevsky
    Nevsky 7 June 2013 15: 45 New
    +3
    Unfortunately in Ukraine, many have been brainwashed ... sad
    1. desiscia
      desiscia 7 June 2013 18: 37 New
      +2
      Unfortunately in Russia, brainwashing is normal too.
  8. Russ69
    Russ69 7 June 2013 15: 46 New
    +5
    Quote: Truffoff
    Yes, buy up all production there and work fine.

    According to some politicians, Russia will sell down ... I ... I, otherwise it will be a hidden occupation or some other crap like that. But the West is always welcome .., this is integration into the EU smile
  9. DmitriRazumov
    DmitriRazumov 7 June 2013 15: 59 New
    +6
    To begin with, you will have to understand that no mutually beneficial cooperation on an economic basis will bring us closer to the second reunion. Reunification is possible only through political means, since the very “sovereignty” of Ukraine is a purely political phenomenon, which has no roots either in the economy or in culture.

    In my opinion, this is the key thought in the article. in the 17th century Bogdan Khmelnitsky rushed between 4 states (Russia, Poland, Sweden and even Turkey) to indicate his benefits in terms of accession. In the end, Russia invested in this project with the lives of its soldiers and its treasury. At the same time, Khmelnitsky constantly intrigued and demanded greater authority and independence for himself and "his" future destinies. The unification proceeded painfully and for a long time. It was very difficult for Russia, weakened by the internal instability and external wars with sworn "partners" (Poland, Sweden, Turkey). But as a result, it basically turned out that it was ultimately beneficial to the entire fragmented nation (the Russian people of Lithuania and Muscovy).
    1. Avenger711
      Avenger711 7 June 2013 21: 22 New
      +1
      But in our country (in the post-Soviet period they will read about it, but not remember, although even then it was known what the Ukrainian "elite" was worth).
  10. kind
    kind 7 June 2013 16: 00 New
    +5
    Some bastard people, who are known to all, persistently drive a wedge of discord between the two fraternal peoples. Although probably the people are one, they just live in different territories.
  11. Warrawar
    Warrawar 7 June 2013 16: 04 New
    +5
    Quote: Truffoff
    Yes, buy up all production there and work fine.

    Better to build more at home than buy it there.
    1. Truffoff
      Truffoff 7 June 2013 16: 12 New
      0
      Quote: Warrawar
      Better to build more at home than buy it there.

      To buy up not only for the purpose of "producing something."
      the ability to influence politics using the levers of the economy.
      As Jewish bankers say: "Give me control over the finances of the state and I don't care what kind of government there will be."
  12. Dromac
    Dromac 7 June 2013 16: 05 New
    +3
    Good article. The plane must be cool. We must try to get it and build it at home. In parallel with this, develop your own on the sludge for the future. Time tick tick
  13. Kars
    Kars 7 June 2013 16: 06 New
    +1
    Here it will be useful to recall that Russia sold the aircraft-carrying cruiser Admiral Gorshkov to India for $ 1, having received in return billions of dollars in contracts for its modernization. Likewise, during the restoration of Atlant, the shipbuilding and defense enterprises of Ukraine could receive live orders, which, moreover, would be a truly common cause that unites us. But for now, "Ukraine" continues to rust at the pier.


    And as we know from the history of completing the construction of Vikromantia, the deadlines were repeatedly disrupted, there was at least one serious accident. And if the Indians are afraid to sue the Russian modernizers, then the Russian Federation will sue Ukraine (and overlaps happen almost always) unambiguously. And as a result, Ukraine should still remain. So that an unenviable fate awaits hell. Lobova. will apparently come to him in Macau as an entertainment center to sail
    1. Dimani
      Dimani 7 June 2013 16: 29 New
      +6
      Well, actually, the deadlines were disrupted due to the fault of the Indians, including the accident that happened, everyone wanted to save money. And they are not at all afraid to sue, they just have nothing to cover, jambs from their side.
      1. Kars
        Kars 7 June 2013 16: 33 New
        +2
        Quote: Dimani
        Well, actually, the deadlines were broken due to the fault of the Indians

        Who would have doubted.
        Quote: Dimani
        And they are not at all afraid to sue, they just have nothing to cover, jambs from their side.

        Probably because of this, they will make a luxury class for free as a gift to the admiral's cabin? (Something that was read on the pages of VO)
        1. Dimani
          Dimani 7 June 2013 16: 59 New
          +4
          Probably because of this they will make a luxury class for free as a gift to the admiral's cabin?


          well, it's a penny compared to the price of the contract. I do not believe that because of this, the Indians have discouraged all the desire to go to court. They have nothing to cover, that's all
          1. Kars
            Kars 7 June 2013 17: 02 New
            +1
            Quote: Dimani
            And there is nothing to cover that's all

            Surely somewhere there is a piece of paper where the Indians take responsibility for the use of these bricks, of this particular brand and manufacturer.

            Boyatsa Hindus Suditsa, and so much money has already been thrown in, they have to drag it out.
            1. Dimani
              Dimani 7 June 2013 17: 09 New
              +5
              A miser pays twice, but a fool ... cancer three times smile
              1. Kars
                Kars 7 June 2013 17: 30 New
                +1
                Quote: Dimani
                the coupe pays twice, but fool .. cancer three times

                The hike is about the Indians in this case. Go for a .. freebie ..
        2. Misantrop
          Misantrop 7 June 2013 17: 45 New
          +2
          Quote: Kars
          Probably because of this they will make a luxury class for free as a gift to the admiral's cabin?

          This is a tradition of the NSR since the days of the USSR. The saloons on all orders were of the chic design
          1. Kars
            Kars 7 June 2013 18: 08 New
            +1
            Quote: Misantrop
            This is a tradition of the NSR since the days of the USSR. The saloons on all orders were of the chic design

            And why didn't they discuss it right away?
            We started the project with 900 million, finished with 5 billion, while at least once the Indians stopped financing.
            1. Misantrop
              Misantrop 7 June 2013 21: 08 New
              +1
              Quote: Kars
              We started the project with 900 million, finished with 5 billion
              Get an exclusive Bentley for the price of a used Zaporozhets? They added requirements, the plant added prices. Is the plant wrong? Wouldn't it be enough that they got the original steamer for $ 1? They wanted to snatch modernization for the same amount?
              1. Kars
                Kars 7 June 2013 21: 46 New
                +1
                Quote: Misantrop
                Get an exclusive Bentley for the price of a used Zaporozhets?
                Well, you bent for Bentley. Maybe a Ford Focus.
                Quote: Misantrop
                Wouldn't it be enough that they got the original steamer for $ 1? They wanted to snatch modernization for the same amount?
                A little more and will cost like a used Nimitz, or a new Queen.
                Quote: Misantrop
                the plant added a price. Is the plant wrong?
                Sell ​​us in such a way for the hryvnia of TKR Ukraine, how many stench and stuffing g on the ventilator I can not even imagine)))) but the divorce is not bad, almost like a scam with a prize
    2. cartridge
      cartridge 7 June 2013 20: 14 New
      +3
      Kars, are you in this formation, the one with the spoon? Or with a tomahawk? I don't recognize you in makeup ...
      1. Kars
        Kars 7 June 2013 21: 38 New
        +5
        I am taking photos))))
        1. cartridge
          cartridge 7 June 2013 23: 18 New
          -3
          Appreciated the joke. You plus +)))
          1. Kars
            Kars 7 June 2013 23: 20 New
            +1
            Yes, even a minus))))) damn appraiser)))
            1. cartridge
              cartridge 8 June 2013 00: 58 New
              -3
              Why are we angry, dear man? Or the bloomers crawling down, stuffed with non-essential shit, deprived you of your peace of mind? So you, as usual, eat beetroots and you will feel better. And wash your trousers, that should help too laughing
              1. Kars
                Kars 8 June 2013 10: 57 New
                +2
                Quote: cartridge
                Or bloomers crawling down, stuffed with unalterable shit,

                is it you see yourself describing yourself? once with such knowledge you tell that it helps when you get fucked up)) is this often with you?
                1. cartridge
                  cartridge 8 June 2013 11: 33 New
                  -1
                  The question is at the wrong address. In Russia, Turkish harem pants are not worn as a national costume. And the heritage of the nomads, the Tatar-Mongolian settler, did not take root among the Russians. So deal with your faeces in your pants yourself and don't expect any advice from me. You are a professor yourself in these matters.
                  Better tell the general public how you get lice out of a donkey: with a scallop or kerosene? laughing
                  PS And you can not write to me. It is a pleasure for Svidomites to discuss your inherent problems of personal hygiene, but not for normal people. Deliver me from your presence. Bury yourself in a stash soldier
  14. Truffoff
    Truffoff 7 June 2013 16: 06 New
    +2
    “Jihad against Georgian troops in Afghanistan,” Panorama.am reports.

    You should have fired from Afgan ... And then Georgia has already begged.
  15. Russ69
    Russ69 7 June 2013 16: 07 New
    +3
    Quote: Warrawar
    Better to build more at home than buy it there.

    Your own is certainly better, but sometimes it's faster and cheaper to buy. I do not mean the finished aircraft, but the production rights.
  16. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 7 June 2013 16: 15 New
    +4
    My wife (the first) was a Ukrainian woman (a beautiful devil) .. and so "orange revolutions", etc. I blink at her with an "evil look" after looking at the box .. and I think "I'll make you a revolution at night .. ha ha ha (a joke of course) .. And then it was wild to listen to Ukraine and Russia "on the brink of war" We have been Orthodox together for a thousand years !!! How many enemies have we torn apart! They poison our peoples! Take oil, take it! .. Stop swearing!
  17. V. Ushakov
    V. Ushakov 7 June 2013 16: 19 New
    +5
    Guys. Ukraine, at least for now, must be completely abandoned. With them - there will be no sense for a long, long time. You have to do everything yourself. With these, it is desirable not even to communicate. A useless waste of money, nerves and physical efforts ... We, ourselves - will have everything - our own.
  18. wlad59
    wlad59 7 June 2013 16: 28 New
    -4
    Article minus .... the author clearly did not teach philosophy and has no idea about the basis (economics) and superstructure (politics)! It is with the economic cooperation between Russia and Ukraine that close political cooperation between our countries will begin. And about the "not good" Kiva, let the author remember the statements about the AN-70 of the former Air Force Commander Mikhailov, Glazyev, Rogozhin, Ambassador Zurabov ... and the readers themselves would decide who is hindering the AN-70 project and why.
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 7 June 2013 17: 49 New
      +3
      Quote: wlad59
      It is with the economic cooperation between Russia and Ukraine that close political cooperation between our countries will begin.
      Only if the enterprises are at least partially owned by those who make politics. As long as a leading politician dreams (on the sly) of bankrupting and buying out a strategic enterprise, he does not need its economic success for nothing. A successful plant is too expensive, and the Politbomond VERY doesn't like to pay ...
  19. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 7 June 2013 16: 28 New
    +5
    Quote: V. Ushakov
    Guys. Ukraine, at least for now, must be completely abandoned. With them - there will be no sense for a long, long time. You have to do everything yourself. With these, it is desirable not even to communicate. A useless waste of money, nerves and physical efforts ... We, ourselves - will have everything - our own.

    You're lying !! There is such a word that unites the SLAVS .. and no one will be able to embroil us .. The integration of our peoples is proceeding by leaps and bounds ..
    1. Babon
      Babon 7 June 2013 16: 45 New
      +4
      . The integration of our peoples is proceeding by leaps and bounds.

      This is too strong a word, I just talked with people. Many people do not want to integrate anywhere, they have a normal attitude towards Russia, speak Russian, they can easily come to Russia, but they have no thoughts about integration.
    2. Andrey57
      Andrey57 7 June 2013 18: 08 New
      +2
      The question is not to quarrel, but that it is useless to climb with all sorts of unifying projects to Ukraine until they themselves decide and understand where they want and where they decide to move. Currently, the Ukrainian leadership is trying to play on the contradictions between Russia, the EU and mattress mats. Only gone are the days when you could sit on 2 chairs. I'm not even talking about the fact that military-technical cooperation with Ukraine now has no prospects because of the same wagging from the series "yours and ours."
  20. individual
    individual 7 June 2013 16: 34 New
    +5
    We have considered this issue earlier, but we can repeat:
    Now, apparently, work on extending the service life of the 15P118M missile system with the R-36M UTTH and R-36M2 missiles (according to NATO classification - SS-18 Mod.5 and 6 "Satan") until 2022 will be Russian specialists, and not representatives of the developer (Ukraine). This situation hardly contributes to the strengthening of cooperation, but it is more than logical. It is absurd to depend on another state in matters of strategic nuclear security that does not presuppose mutual understanding.
    Only this way and not otherwise.
  21. uzer 13
    uzer 13 7 June 2013 17: 26 New
    +3
    If Ukraine is currently an independent state with its own political and economic interests and directions of development, can we finally comprehend or not? You should not either fight with it or fall into euphoria about Slavic roots. Half of Europe has such roots, and no one claims to have a special attitude. You just need to build normal economic and political relations, adequate to the requirements of the time. Joint defense projects are out of the question, as with a state striving to join NATO and not come there empty-handed. Unrealized joint projects. - this is precisely the consequences of the preliminary agreements of Ukrainian politicians with their future American and NATO masters. We also need to stop stealing and taking bribes from Ukrainian godfathers, especially in the AN-70 project. It has been under construction for so long for the reason that it is 100% corrupt, and is for some industrial groupings an inexhaustible source of income.
  22. pamero
    pamero 7 June 2013 18: 08 New
    -1
    Yes, it’s clear like God's day. In Ukraine, the special service is called the Security Service of Ukraine, the Security Service of Ukraine, all this says it all! In Belarus, the KGB in Russia, the FSB has room for maneuver in defense and security. In Ukraine, the Security Service of Ukraine through special services, complete separation, archives and the legal field, cooperation in the war of the black cloaks are closed, they protect Ukraine from Russia, Belarus and from all states of the former USSR who are in strategic partnership with Russia. Their direct tactical and strategic partner is England, the USA, Germany, France, and thereof. Collaboration on the military-industrial complex is an additional source of financing for its industry, or the main one, whatever.
    1. Conepatus
      Conepatus 7 June 2013 21: 26 New
      0
      And the head of what Russian special service, in the 90s, personally brought the Americans, the wiretapping scheme of their embassy?
      1. Russ69
        Russ69 7 June 2013 21: 31 New
        0
        Quote: Conepatus
        And the head of what Russian special service, in the 90s, personally brought the Americans, the wiretapping scheme of their embassy?

        So find at least one who would say kind words to this boss, not even for wiretapping, but in general ..
        1. Conepatus
          Conepatus 7 June 2013 21: 36 New
          0
          So they didn’t jail.
  23. individual
    individual 7 June 2013 18: 22 New
    +3
    On the news I read the shocking news:
    "Putin said Russia is ready to replace Austria in the Golan Heights."
    That would be a breakthrough idea in the balance of power in the "Middle East".
  24. awg75
    awg75 7 June 2013 19: 12 New
    -1
    Russian military equipment should be Russian .... it is not even discussed. Ukraine with one foot is already in NATO, and these comrades, I think everyone understands, see all Russians in white slippers (except for persons of Jewish nationality, of course)
    1. WS
      WS 7 June 2013 19: 39 New
      0
      Whoever does not know, we even buy cotter pins abroad, it becomes not funny at all.
  25. cartridge
    cartridge 7 June 2013 19: 38 New
    +1
    Not a penny in the economies of hostile and unreliable countries! All the money is only in Russian factories!
    1. Conepatus
      Conepatus 7 June 2013 21: 39 New
      -4
      Correctly !!!!! Fence the border, minefields, all that. Disassemble the railroad so that they don't go to you, block gas, oil. And finally forget about us. Because you got it with your whining.
  26. pinecone
    pinecone 7 June 2013 20: 08 New
    0
    Quote: individ
    On the news I read the shocking news:
    "Putin said Russia is ready to replace Austria in the Golan Heights."
    That would be a breakthrough idea in the balance of power in the "Middle East".


    We are talking about the alleged withdrawal of the Austrian contingent of the UN peacekeeping force, the use of which is determined exclusively by the decisions of the Security Council.
  27. cartridge
    cartridge 7 June 2013 20: 18 New
    0
    I read the comments of the dill aborigines and remember the classics
  28. cartridge
    cartridge 7 June 2013 21: 12 New
    0
    Russian weapon number 1 in the world!
  29. Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 7 June 2013 21: 22 New
    +1
    As it is not sad, but the reality is this: Russia and Ukraine are increasingly moving away from each other. A long period of time must pass, during which the Russians and Ukrainians will understand that the economy and production must be mutually beneficial. It may turn out that they do not understand this. There will be nothing wrong. We will remain good neighbors.
  30. Avenger711
    Avenger711 7 June 2013 21: 46 New
    +2
    Cooperating with Ukraine is the same as cooperating with a puppet republic created by the invaders on our territory. Although there seem to be the same Russians.

    The whole Ukrainian policy in the field of "cooperation" is that we owe them something. We must, in violation of their own laws, put their engines on new combat helicopters. We must purchase An-148, An-70. Damn, if you are so cool, then make your An-70 yourself. If we refuse, then we are radishes and oppressors. There are no other options, Ukraine or should clearly fulfill all our requirements for it (we will live without the An-70, the Antonov Design Bureau is unlikely to be sold without a sale, but no one will buy it), in the end it is naive to demand equal treatment when you zero, or admit that it is not independent, and then we will willingly invite Boguslaev to supply motors for any of our turntables. Neither of these is unacceptable for the local politicians, but every dispute can be used for another escalation of Russophobia.

    Now only one policy is applicable to Ukraine - the big economic stick and its own economic growth. Propaganda and historical truth are also required. Because the population in Ukraine now has no driving force to outweigh the local hetmans and hold a new Pereyaslav Rada. As well as there are no achievements on the basis of Ukrainians. The Galician Nazis will not force everyone to speak MOV anyway, and they themselves are unlikely to use it. The key feature of the Galician Nazi is that it pours mud on Russia in pure Russian on Russian forums and chats. The Banderaites do not even have their own culture, and no matter how they deny their Russianness, they will still not go anywhere from it and from the Russian world. You just need to bring Ukraine to the point where everyone wants to be Russians, and not some kind of Ukrainians. Maybe especially active inhabitants of military sites and blogs, describing how one or another industry has been destroyed in Russia, which produces 100 times more products than the Ukrainian one, this will not reach, but one must assume that there are not many of them and they can safely blame them in Poland. , they know very well how to deal with Ukrainians.
  31. The comment was deleted.
  32. Revolver
    Revolver 7 June 2013 22: 08 New
    +1
    Rapprochement by Lieutenant Rzhevsky
    - Lieutenant, how do you manage to get close to the ladies so easily?
    - I have them. This, you know, brings people together.