Military Review

Our grenade launchers negated world achievements in the protection of armored vehicles!

202
Approves Alexander RYBAS - Director General of the GNPP Bazalt, the leading enterprise in the ammunition industry.


From "Mastyazhart" to "Basalt"

FSUE “SNPP“ Bazalt ”- one of the oldest defense enterprises in Russia conducts its own history from the creation of 9 (22) in March of 1916 in the Heavy and Siege Artillery Repair Workshop (“Mastyazhart”). A year later, 3500 people worked here, field howitzers were assembled, guns were repaired at the front guns, and military ammunition was manufactured.

At the end of 1926, the plant was entrusted with the production of air bombs according to the drawings developed even during the First World War. But development is coming soon aviation the country demanded the creation of new ammunition. In early March 1930, with the goal of “organizing an arsenal of bomb weapons,” the Revolutionary Military Council ordered a group of military engineers to develop new bomb designs. By the end of 1930, Mastyazhart was producing over 4500 bombs a year. The plant was renamed Plant N ° 67 and specialized in the production of bomb shells. Despite the absence at that time of the theory of designing such ammunition, the designers of the research department of the plant already by 1932 completed the development and put into service air bombs of 50, 100, 250, 500, 1000 kg calibers, and later, in 1934, FAB-2000. In 1933, the Special Technical Bureau for Air Bombs was created at the plant, transformed a year later into the Design and Technological Bureau No. 27 (KTB-27), which was entrusted with the coordination of all work on the development of air bombs and the organization of their serial production.

In April 1938 was established on the basis of the Research Department of the plant number 67 and KTB-27, the State Union Design Bureau N ° 47 was established (GSKB-47 subsequently renamed FSUE “Bazalt”).

Experimental Workshop No. 67


By the beginning of World War II, GSK-47 had mastered the production of more than 80 samples of air bombs of various calibers and assignments, a wide range of mortar rounds for smooth-bore mortars 50, 82, 107 and 120, with splinter and sneeze masters, which were used for fire blasts of bombas and 47, 616 and XNUMX mm with splinter and fire masks, and for hitting fire masks, XNUMX, XNUMX, XNUMX and XNUMX mm with splinter and fire masters, and for the beginning of the year. mines, as well as educational and practical mines of all four calibers. During the war years, the company also created mines for engineering troops and partisan formations, two samples of flamethrowers, and means for sabotage fighting in the enemy's rear. The ammunition designed in the GSK-XNUMX in the pre-war and war years had high combat characteristics and was characterized by simplicity of designs and manufacturability. During the war years, XNUMX enterprises of the country were engaged in their manufacture.

In the postwar years, the company created and put into mass production at 228 factories over 400 samples of bombs, missile warheads, mines, shells and melee weapons.

To implement a unified technical policy in the country and create highly effective anti-tank weapons by order of the State Committee of the USSR Council of Ministers on defense technology from April 22 of 1958, the company was identified as the lead developer of this type of ammunition. In 1960, ground test troop tests of the new RPG-7 rocket-propelled grenade launcher complex with a PG-7В shot were successfully conducted. A year later, this complex was adopted by the Soviet army.

During its existence, the Basalt team has developed more than 800 samples of various ammunition, which were adopted by the Russian army. For the successful fulfillment of the tasks of the Government, more than 700 employees were awarded orders and medals, 73 became the laureates of the Lenin and State Prizes; some received prizes from the USSR Council of Ministers in the field of science and technology, prizes of the Government of the Russian Federation, prizes of the Leninist Komsomol.

Monoblock, cassette ... fire extinguishing!

FSUE “SNPP“ Bazalt ”is the head enterprise in the Russian Federation, which provides for the creation, introduction and utilization of unguided, planning and self-targeting aircraft bomb destruction weapons (ABSP).

The analysis of military conflicts of the last decade showed that the ABSS is and in the foreseeable future will remain the most significant component in the aircraft weapon system, and their share in solving aviation tasks of military experts according to military specialists reaches 70%.

The advantages of ABPS, first of all, include: ensuring the destruction of a wide range of targets (from manpower to military-industrial facilities), the practical absence of restrictions on the conditions of use, simplicity of design and operation, relatively low cost and, most importantly in wartime the ability to use non-specialized enterprises for the production of many components of such ammunition and its bodies.

Suspension of the incendiary bomb ZAB-10TSK under the plane. 1930-s.


One of the options for planning a bomb. 1933


Everything for the front, everything for the Victory!


Over its long history, the specialists of the company created and put into service several generations of air munitions for various purposes (more than 400 samples). Among them, high-explosive and high-explosive fragmentation bombs, concrete-breaking, space-detonating, incendiary bombs, tanks, means of detection, marking and destruction of submarines, auxiliary, special and practical.

An important step in improving the efficiency of ABPS was the idea of ​​creating a cassette weapons. The effectiveness of the defeat of manpower, aircraft, missile and armored vehicles is several times higher compared with the monoblock air bombs of the same purpose. In order to equip the Air Force with this highly efficient weapon in the 70-80. one-time bomb cassettes and blocks were created in equipment with fragmentation, concrete-breaking, cumulative, self-aiming, incendiary cassette combat elements, as well as mines for various purposes.

In order to increase the power and level of combat readiness of the Air Force, the specialists of the enterprise and co-contractors today are working on upgrading the previously created products and designing new ones.

Samples of modern bombs


The accumulated experience of the company allowed to begin the development of special aviation means for the elimination of man-made and environmental disasters. These include aviation fire extinguishing device АСП-500 of caliber 500 kg, equipped with extinguishing agent with a mass of about 400 kg and an explosive dispersion system. It provides suppression of the focus of forest fire in a layer of height 4-6 m and radius 18-20 m.

Many of the products of the enterprise were tested for combat and were highly appreciated by military specialists, including foreign ones. The competitiveness of a number of samples is confirmed by international contracts for their supply and licensed production.

Armor destroyers

Grenade launchers of melee (SBB) is an effective means of combating tanks, lightly armored and unarmored vehicles, firing points, manpower located in the open, in field fortifications, in buildings and structures. The advantages of this class of weapons are simplicity of design and ease of combat use, high mobility provided by its small weight and dimensions, high reliability and effectiveness, relatively low cost of completing a combat mission, accessibility and the possibility of mass use on the battlefield.

The history of grenade launchers at the enterprise began with the development of the RPG-7В grenade complex with a PG-7В shotgun adopted at 1961. The 1963 completed the development of an EGG-9 grenade launcher with a PG-9B shotgun.

Grenade melee weapons are currently widely used in combat operations not only as anti-tank, but also as an effective assault weapon. Therefore, the RPG-7 grenade launcher was developed shots TBG-7В with thermobaric warhead and OG-7В with fragmentation warhead.

At the beginning of the 80's of the last century, tanks equipped with the so-called “reactive armor” - according to the national terminology of dynamic defense - were put into service with foreign armies. There was a problem of defeating such targets. It was successfully resolved by specialists of the enterprise in a very short time. The 105 mm tandem cumulative warhead was developed for PG-7BP, PG-29B, RPG-27 shots.

RPG-26 and RPG-27 jet fired grenades with disposable grenade launchers developed by the FSUE “Basalt” are individual weapons of a fighter for fighting armored vehicles and can also be used to suppress firing points and manpower. Having dimensions and mass comparable to the mass of small arms, the RPG-26 has firepower, providing penetration of armor with a thickness of up to 500 mm. The RPG-27 grenade with medium armor penetration 750 mm is capable of striking modern tanks, equipped with a combined armor and dynamic protection.

To conduct combat in modern conditions on the basis of the RPG-27 and RPG-26 developed samples of assault ammunition - grenades RSHG-1 and RSHG-2, respectively. The RSHG-1 and RSHG-2 assault grenades, retaining all the advantages of the basic models, are equipped with thermobaric warheads and are capable of effectively striking lightly armored and unarmored vehicles, firing points, equipped in residential and industrial buildings, openly located and sheltered living force.

Excellent performance in combat operations in local combat conflicts RPG-29 grenade launcher with 105-mm PG-29В shot with a tandem warhead. Adopted in 1989, it still remains a formidable weapon capable of effectively striking the most advanced tanks in melee combat. The unexpected use of this weapon in the 2006 Lebanon-Israeli military conflict decided its outcome. The most modern tank units could not overcome the defense. Military operations have stopped.

After these events, the popularity of the Russian RPG-29 grenade launcher in the Middle East has increased dramatically. "Basalt" received a number of proposals for the supply of these weapons abroad. In addition to the grenade launcher, a TBG-29В shot with a thermobaric warhead was developed, which significantly expanded the combat capabilities of the sample. The only army that did not need a unique RPG-29 grenade launcher was the Russian Armed Forces. This sample for more than 15 years is not ordered by the Russian army.

Training RPG shooting


FSUE "GNPP" Basalt "made a significant contribution to the development of light infantry flamethrowers. MRO-A, MRO-D samples allow the fighter to fire from the premises, which is very important when conducting combat operations in urban environments.

In the first decade of the new XXI century. "Basalt" has created new promising models of grenade launchers. Among them, 125-mm reactive anti-tank grenade RPG-28, 105-mm reactive multi-purpose grenade RMG and other products.

Sample RPG-28 is designed to defeat armor targets equipped with combined armor systems and built-in dynamic protection. The RMG multi-purpose reactive grenade is equipped with a tandem warhead of a multifactorial striking action. The grenade fuse has a selective effect. The explosion of a warhead can occur either on the barrier (“hard” barrier - armor, concrete) or behind it (“soft” barrier - sandbags, clay duval, embankment). When acting on the brick and concrete walls, the warhead in them forms breaks of size 0,5x0,5 m.

It is surprising that the Ministry of Defense of Russia for several years has not been rushing to accept these new models for service, although they work flawlessly.

On the instructions of the foreign customer (Jordan), the FSUE “SNPP“ Basalt ”developed a RPG-32 grenade launcher complex with an optical-electronic sight and ammunition - the anti-tank PG-32B and thermobaric shot TBG-32В.

Currently, together with the Defense Ministry of the Russian Federation, the company is working to create a promising image of a grenade launcher melee complex integrated into the equipment of a fighter. The theoretical and experimental studies carried out by FSUE “Bazalt” show the possibility of creating such samples with a high level of unification, ensuring the solution of virtually all tasks arising in the conduct of hostilities in modern conditions and in the foreseeable future.

Basalt is also the lead developer of stationary small-sized and manual anti-sabotage grenade launchers. Anti-sabotage grenade armament is an important element of the defense system of the naval bases, as well as individual ships from submarine sabotage forces.

To protect the near zone of protected objects at ranges up to 500 m in 1971, the multi-barrel rocket launcher MRG-1 was adopted by the Navy. Shooting from it is carried out remotely from an autonomous power source from the deck of a ship or from the shore.

Complex RPG-32 in position for shooting


In 1991, the Navy developed and adopted an automated small-sized remote-controlled DP-65 grenade launcher complex, the reactive launcher of which, unlike the MRG-1, is equipped with electric drives of vertical and horizontal guidance mechanisms, controlled remotely, the control panel allows you to serve up to four grenade launchers in turn. The DP-65 complex is installed on large surface ships and ships, as well as on various coastal facilities and can be effectively used against all types of modern submarine sabotage forces.

IGG-1 and DP-65 are fired with reactive 55-mm high-explosive grenades РГ-55М - miniature depth charges, exploding at a certain, predetermined depth and effectively striking an underwater saboteur within a radius of up to 16. For marking the found lines. Grenade launchers MRG-1 and DP-65 included a GDS-55 reactive signal grenade, the burning torch of which serves as a guide on the water surface for aiming firing of high-explosive grenades.

Widespread use in the system of anti-sabotage defense received hand grenade launchers that do not require, in contrast to stationary complexes, specially equipped positions. One of them is a hand-held grenade launcher DP-64. Its design uses an active launching scheme for grenades, so that the grenade launcher has a closed breech, which greatly expands the range of its application. Thanks to its original design, the DP-64 is a virtually silent weapon. Its ammunition includes two types of grenades: signal SG-45, intended to indicate the location of underwater saboteurs, and high-explosive FG-45 - for their destruction.



FSUE GNPP Basalt, in addition, is the lead developer of hand grenades. In 1981, hand grenades were adopted: the offensive RGN and the defensive RGO with shock-distant fuses, which by their combat characteristics are superior to their foreign counterparts.

Along with the promotion on the world market of new products, FSUE “SNPP“ Basalt ”offers training ammunition, the main feature of which is a complete imitation of regular ammunition. The cost of one training shot is 4-5 times lower than the cost of a combat one. To support combat readiness, each army shooter must at least 15 shots per year, so the savings from using training shots are obvious.

High Power Shots

Mortar weapons are one of the most important types of fire equipment of ground forces and are designed to destroy open and sheltered manpower, unarmored and lightly armored equipment, the destruction of field-type fortifications.

The main advantage of such weapons is the ability to conduct mounted shooting at different ranges, which is extremely important when conducting battles in rugged terrain.

Development of mortar shots with mines of various purposes began at the enterprise in 1940. High-explosive, high-explosive, lighting, incendiary, smoke and practical (training) shots were created on the Basalt in mortar shells of 50, 82, 107, 120 and 160 mm calibers. The pinnacle in this area should be considered as an adopted heavy-duty 240-mm mortar M-240 with a steel high-explosive mine weighing about 140 kg, capable of striking heavy type bunkers, brick and concrete buildings and structures. By the power of this system there is no equal in the world to the present.

Smoothbore mortars with improved ballistics: 120-mm Ammunition mortar 2B11, 82-mm mortar 2B14 and 82-mm automatic mortar 2B9 still has no analogues in the world, taken into service at the end of 70-s - early 80-ies. For these instruments, specialists of the FSUE “SNPP“ Basalt ”in a short period of time developed two qualitatively new ammunition sets of increased efficiency and increased range, including those with proximity fuses.

The development of ammunition for artillery guns of ground forces at the FSUE “GNPP“ Basalt ”begins with the creation in the 60-ies. of an LNG-9 mounted anti-tank grenade launcher with a PG-9В shot, which had high tactical and technical characteristics and aroused interest among the creators of the BMP-1 infantry fighting vehicle. The anti-tank shots PG-15В, PG-15ВС and OG-15ВМ shot with a fragmentation grenade to the 2А28 BMP-1 gun provided the vehicle with an opportunity to fight the tanks, artillery, enemy manpower.

The self-propelled mortar and artillery system 2C9, in which the barrel and shells have ready-made rifling, was created in the 80-s. For this system, fundamentally new 120-mm detachable unitary shots have been developed and put into service: with a high-explosive fragmentation projectile made of steel equipped with a powerful explosive, with a high-explosive fragmentation projectile and with a cumulative anti-tank projectile. The effectiveness of 120-mm high-explosive fragmentation projectiles to this system is much higher than foreign counterparts and is almost as good as shells.

Classic artillery caliber 152 mm. Currently, on the basis of the CAO 2С9 design concept, a new CAO 2C31 is being developed, equipped with all modern systems of topographical reference, fire control guidance, countermeasures for detection, etc. Furthermore, CAO 2S31 can fire not only all 120-mm round with feathered mines and rifled projectiles domestic and foreign production, but also specially developed by FSUE "SSPE" Basalt "shots of high power with high-explosive shells and cluster bombs, stocked cumulative fragmentation combat elements.



Without endangering life

The specialists of FSUE “GNPP“ Basalt ”developed non-lethal ammunition for barreled artillery and mortars, hand grenade launchers and hand grenades.

Non-lethal means can be used in antiterrorist and peacekeeping operations, hostage-free operations, while providing humanitarian missions, while suppressing insurrections in prisons, and protecting and protecting critical objects. The use of non-lethal means allows violators to be put out of action for a certain time, without putting their lives in danger, to force them to abandon active actions, to prevent them from conducting aimed fire, to disrupt or impede the control or interaction between them.

120-mm mortar shot ZVOF69 with high-explosive fragmentation mine


More powerful, sighting, more efficient!

The main task to be addressed by the enterprise’s team in the near future is the task of substantially increasing the effectiveness of conventional ammunition. In the area of ​​improving melee weapons, this is, first of all, the provision of higher armor penetration capacity of cumulative ammunition combat units. Another important area of ​​work is the introduction of the achievements of modern computer and laser technologies for the creation of modern aiming equipment. It is also necessary to comprehensively investigate the use of promising composite materials in the design of body parts and ammunition assemblies. There is no unambiguous understanding here yet. The question requires discussion and careful analysis from the standpoint of strength, reliability, manufacturability and performance. But it is not always, as it turned out, such decisions produce the desired effect. There are cases when, for example, in multiple launch rocket systems, an attempt to use composites and polymers to provide the necessary strength characteristics led to a decrease in the amount of explosives or rocket fuel. As for the mortar and artillery weapons, we are faced with the task of increasing the effectiveness of the action and the firing range by introducing scientific advances in the field of explosion physics and high-energy chemistry.

At various times, the Basalt specialists have created truly unique models of weapons, which often remain unsurpassed to this day. For example, RPG-7B or RPG-29 grenade launchers with a family of

ammunition to them. The RPG-7 grenade launcher this year marks 50 years. Since the adoption of the RPG-29 passed 20 years. But they are still in demand in the global arms market, and we are working to make new types of grenades for them.

Much of the new developments can not write for obvious reasons. But you can report this fact - in 2011, the FSUE “SNPP“ Basalt ”will begin to create a new rocket-propelled grenade-and-flame-throwing complex with characteristics that meet all (very demanding) requirements of our customer.

Work on aerial bomb weapons will be associated, in particular, with the use of new composite materials in the manufacture of buildings and elements of the airframe products. This is intended to ensure the power of the action of aerial bombs and cassettes, the accuracy of their application, to reduce the effective dispersion area. To increase the power of the ammunition, the target will use new highly effective explosive compositions, ready-made striking elements of optimal mass. Work is planned on the creation of cluster elements and combat units of a new generation, including non-lethal action. Another promising direction is the use of a cumulative effect in a controlled group use of products. The task is to impart to such aerial bomb weapons such properties that, when applied from the carrier, will provide a significant expansion of its tactical capabilities, including flight re-targeting. One of the ways is to equip highly efficient regular and prospective unguided aerial bombs with a planning and correction module to give them the qualities of high-precision weapons, as well as to ensure the possibility of using them without entering the enemy’s air defense zone.

Work will continue on the creation of planning bomb cassettes of a new generation with an increased range and accuracy of destruction. The task of ensuring the possibility of their use from helicopters due to the optimization of the aerodynamic configuration, the use of booster engines and the finishing channel on the final trajectory is being solved.

To realize all this, the company has developed a comprehensive target program for the development of aerial bomb weapons for the period up to 2020.
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  1. Professor
    Professor 6 June 2013 08: 32 New
    -11
    The unexpected use of these weapons in the 2006 Lebanese-Israeli military conflict decided its outcome. The most modern tank formations could not overcome the defense. Hostilities ceased.

    So here it is what the problem is, Beirut stood it. laughing Thank you enlightened. good Nevertheless, Tsakhal went to the banks of the Letani River where he planned to go irretrievably while losing as many as 5 (five) tanks.

    All the same, I wonder what kind of defense (defense of what) these tanks could not overcome?
    1. Seraph
      Seraph 6 June 2013 08: 40 New
      +8
      The wall of courage of the valiant Arab army. That's what the boasted thugs of the bloody clique of world Zionism stumbled into!
      1. faraon
        faraon 6 June 2013 12: 14 New
        -13
        What kind of army ????? explain did not understand. Probably what is hiding behind women and children.?
        1. Seraph
          Seraph 6 June 2013 22: 13 New
          0
          Stop fighting with windmills: there is no reception against propaganda cliches
      2. Sergey_K
        Sergey_K 6 June 2013 17: 10 New
        +5
        The wall of courage of the valiant Arab army.
        - This is PPC. It is good that this army is so crooked-handed that it came sharply to our land.
        1. ATATA
          ATATA 6 June 2013 17: 21 New
          +1
          Quote: Sergey_K
          - This is PPC. It is good that this army is so crooked-handed that it came sharply to our land.

          Yes on yours, this army fights regularly! laughing
      3. Blackgrifon
        Blackgrifon 6 June 2013 19: 01 New
        +5
        "The wall of courage of the valiant Arab army. This is what the vaunted thugs of the bloody clique of world Zionism have stumbled over!" - how many resources (modern technology, weapons, military specialists) the USSR poured into these "courageous" Arab countries - but how they did not know how to fight, they did not learn - they could not win ANY ode to the Arab-Israeli war.
        1. Seraph
          Seraph 6 June 2013 22: 33 New
          +1
          Well, you, Alexander, this is not an argument in a dispute that requires serious opposition. This is a common cliche of Soviet propaganda. Why not apply the useful achievements of the USSR? It’s impossible to discuss everything and everything with the seriousness of our deputies
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 6 June 2013 08: 48 New
      15
      Quote: Professor
      Nevertheless, Tsakhal went to the banks of the Letani River where he planned to go irretrievably while losing as many as 5 (five) tanks.

      That is, 5 buildings could not even be dragged away for scrap?

      I like this expression in relation to technology: "lost forever." Directly a find for propaganda. But in general, this is not your know-how, German. The department invented Goebbels.
      1. Professor
        Professor 6 June 2013 08: 53 New
        +3
        Quote: Spade
        But in general, this is not your know-how, German. Goebbels invented.

        Do you propose a scratch on the paint or loss of a caterpillar as a loss? If the on-site repair team replaced the SU and the tank returned to battle after 30 minutes, then what about Goebels? wink
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 6 June 2013 08: 56 New
          10
          I propose everything that could not continue to carry out a combat mission, considered lined.

          A lost caterpillar in most cases leads to a missed mission.
          1. Professor
            Professor 6 June 2013 08: 59 New
            +1
            Quote: Spade
            I propose everything that could not continue to carry out a combat mission, considered lined.

            Accepted - only 5 (five) tanks could not continue to carry out the combat mission. The rest were tinted and thrown back into battle. Hi Goebels. soldier
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 6 June 2013 09: 14 New
              14
              Quote: Professor
              The rest were tinted and thrown back into battle.

              That is, they were taken out of the battle. And they are padded. This is the difference between propaganda and reality.

              Reality: the tank is down, the task has not been completed, the crew, under cancellation for a civilian, work the rest of their lives on tablets. The tank was dragged to the rear, put in order in a day, the new crew erased the blood and urine of the previous one with rags from the seats, and again into battle.
              Propaganda: there are no irretrievable losses of tanks and personnel.
              1. Professor
                Professor 6 June 2013 09: 20 New
                0
                Quote: Spade
                That is, they were taken out of the battle. And they are padded. This is the difference between propaganda and reality.

                Sophistry, dear. The tank was withdrawn from the battle to replenish ammunition and fuel- ABOUT THE MOUNTAIN !!! He was withdrawn from the battle ....

                Quote: Spade
                Reality: the tank is wrecked, the task has not been completed, the crew has to work on tablets for the rest of the life of the citizen. The tank was dragged to the rear, put in order in a day, the new crew erased the blood and urine of the previous one with rags from the seats, and again into battle.

                The tank was hit, repaired and returned to battle reality.

                Quote: Spade
                Propaganda: there are no irretrievable losses of tanks and personnel.

                There are irretrievable losses - 5 (five) tanks, there are losses of drugs - all are known by name - reality.

                PS
                The best way to bring any propaganda to the open is to present the facts. Good luck. hi
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 6 June 2013 09: 30 New
                  12
                  Quote: Professor
                  Sophistry, dear.

                  Sophistry is a tank that was not carried out from the battlefield to replace the engine, chassis and crew, as a tank remaining in service. Do you have statistics for padded tanks? I’m sure not. You are given data only about the "irretrievably lost" - that is, those that cannot be restored even at the factory.

                  Quote: Professor
                  The best way to bring any propaganda to the open is to present the facts.

                  Will not work. I pay tribute to the excellent work of the Israeli "Ministry of Truth"
                  1. Professor
                    Professor 6 June 2013 09: 41 New
                    -7
                    Quote: Spade
                    Do you have statistics on damaged tanks?

                    I do not have Granovsky.

                    Quote: Spade
                    Will not work. I pay tribute to the excellent work of the Israeli "Ministry of Truth"

                    Strange, but I haven’t heard about this. request
                  2. Pimply
                    Pimply 6 June 2013 12: 36 New
                    10
                    I have, from several different sources.

                    According to Granovsky

                    45 tanks were hit by ATGMs and RPG grenades, all in all, 51 rocket hit the tanks.
                    In 24 cases (47% of the number of hits), the cumulative jet pierced the armor of the tanks, apparently in 3 cases of these 24 tanks detonated the ammunition.
                    In total, about 60 BTT units received combat damage, including 48-52 tank. 5 tanks were irretrievably lost - 3 from hit ATGMs (one each Merkava Mk.2, MK.3 and MK.4) and 2 from explosives (one Merkava MK.2 and MK.4).
                    Killed 31 fighter of armored forces, incl. 30 Tankers. In addition, another 4 soldier - 3 in the D9 and 1 bulldozers in the heavy Puma armored personnel carrier, died from ATGM hits in the BTT.
                    Tanks "Merkava", especially the latest MK.4, showed excellent resistance to combat defeats. On average, in each tank whose armor was broken, 1 tanker was killed, and the ammunition, apparently, detonated in only 3 of the 24 broken

                    According to Ben-Israel, the same thing, only the number of hits in the tanks - 52 or 53, now I do not remember exactly.

                    Ben Israel also notes the resistance of 4 matches - 34% of penetration against 50 and 54 in the triple and deuce.

                    It is also noted that most tanks quickly returned to duty
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 6 June 2013 12: 40 New
                      +6
                      Sincerely, drove through. You yourself are unlikely to know the statistics, unless in a hundred years.
                      1. Pimply
                        Pimply 6 June 2013 13: 37 New
                        +2
                        Lopatov, I understand you perfectly - with the Russian reality, you have no faith in statistics. Only the Israeli reality differs from the Russian one. You can as much as you want to get up in a pose and say "You yourself are unlikely to find out the statistics", only reality suggests otherwise. The people work in the archives and make reports, and half of the country serves in the army. Plus "volunteers" like Anat Kam. Discrepancies with reality will simply lead to government resignations. The data is known quite clearly, I have read several reports, and the discrepancies in them are minimal.
                      2. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 6 June 2013 13: 43 New
                        +4
                        Do you believe what science fiction writers portray? And even I can influence public opinion.
                      3. Pimply
                        Pimply 6 June 2013 14: 00 New
                        +2
                        I have a profession. So - I do not argue with you on Russian realities, although I am also familiar with them. Do not argue with you in Israeli. When half the country is serving, and someone is fighting among you, either among friends or relatives, when the country is so small, information tends to leak out. No matter how they tried to hide it. And given the strong press, the opposition, and a highly independent judiciary, concealing losses in Israel is unrealistic. Is that Mossad da Shabak. And then, a big question.
                      4. phantom359
                        phantom359 7 June 2013 00: 03 New
                        0
                        Quote: Pimply
                        I have a profession. So - I do not argue with you on Russian realities, although I am also familiar with them. Do not argue with you in Israeli. When half the country is serving, and someone is fighting among you, either among friends or relatives, when the country is so small, information tends to leak out. No matter how they tried to hide it. And given the strong press, the opposition, and a highly independent judiciary, concealing losses in Israel is unrealistic. Is that Mossad da Shabak. And then, a big question.

                        In bent.))) It is in Israel that they tell the truth about the losses.))) Yes, the great Israel in general does not bear losses in battles. Just not fighting.))) And women and children do not kill and does not scoff at prisoners.
                      5. Pimply
                        Pimply 7 June 2013 01: 07 New
                        0
                        In Israel, everyone who died in wars and has been missing since 1860 is known by name. Do you start listing?
                      6. phantom359
                        phantom359 10 June 2013 22: 56 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Pimply
                        In Israel, everyone who died in wars and has been missing since 1860 is known by name. Do you start listing?

                        Bring them to schools and kibbutzim. Better show 45 downed MiGs F16 and 47 F15.))) Another 300 destroyed Arab tanks. 82g.
              2. Containers
                Containers 6 June 2013 23: 46 New
                +2
                Blessed is he who believes. And judging by how you believe, the little heads are washed like that.
            2. cth; fyn
              cth; fyn 6 June 2013 15: 27 New
              +3
              But judging by the statistics that Pupyrchaty cited, you were right:
              the crew wiped the blood and urine of the previous one with a rag from the seats, and again into battle.
            3. Pimply
              Pimply 6 June 2013 18: 38 New
              -1
              Not in all cases, penetration led to the death of the crew and serious injuries. If you pay attention, there are more than 52 hits, 49 losses, and penetrations - 24. That is, the lesions often inflicted minor damage.

              Well, as for wiping off blood and urine with a rag - read about Zvi Gringold. That really was a crazy comrade
            4. Containers
              Containers 6 June 2013 23: 48 New
              0
              How many died - approx. And how many have become "disabled" or disabled?
              So about urine and blood - very well said.
      2. ATATA
        ATATA 6 June 2013 12: 51 New
        14
        Quote: Pimply
        Ben Israel also notes the resistance of 4 matches - 34% of penetration against 50 and 54 in the triple and deuce.

        Yes, you understand!
        It makes no difference to get into 4 1 or 5 even once.
        The price of a missile from an ATGM is incommensurably lower than the price of a tank, and the crew is generally priceless.
        34%, this is enough to say that the anti-tank complex is effective.
        In addition, even if the tank is disabled for only a few hours, this is enough, since this tank and its crew can no longer at that moment carry out the task that it had to perform, and additional resources are needed for its repair and maintenance, as well as an additional tank to replace a failed one.
        Now imagine that 2 dozen tanks were destroyed at the same time.
        Battlefield, what's that freeway? We called the car service, a tow truck arrived and resolved all issues. There, bullets whistle and rockets fly.
        A damaged tank must be guarded before evacuation, the brigade must be guarded.
        In short hemorrhoids above the roof.
        And the infantry at this time smokes in the bushes, without the support of tanks.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 6 June 2013 13: 40 New
          +1
          This is the eternal question of the price of a bullet and body armor. The fact that body armor is much more expensive does not mean that it is completely ineffective. 34% is on hit. And on average, every 25th missile hit. For 100 days. 25 disabled tanks, most of which returned to battle.
          I don’t understand - people are being killed, planes are being shot down - and no one is going to cancel them. And then 25 tanks were destroyed in 100 days of the war, of which only five were irretrievably: hype. We must abolish tanks as a class. And how did you live before, when tanks were destroyed by hundreds and thousands? Were they ineffective too?
        2. ATATA
          ATATA 6 June 2013 15: 30 New
          +1
          Quote: Pimply
          34% is on hit. And on average, every 25th missile hit. For 100 days. 25 disabled tanks,

          Well, already tired of writing all this.
          I understand all the topics are hard to read, but you are disarming yourself with these statistics.
          Now calculate what would happen if it weren’t for 1:25 missiles / grenades that would hit, but 1: 12,5, or 1: 5, and this despite the fact that every second pierced and this despite the fact that every penetration is dead man in a carriage.
          Well, how do we calculate the pessimistic option ?!
          It’s not 40, but 200 tanks that were destroyed, and accordingly the same number of corpses.
          Not 5, but 25 tanks were lost forever.
          You can go the other way along the BTT without running 1000 missiles / grenades, but 5, the result will be the same.
          That's about.
          Better not rely on the fact that the Arabs will continue to smear, sooner or later they will learn to hit.
        3. Pimply
          Pimply 6 June 2013 18: 42 New
          -3
          Did she hit? The fact of the matter is that no. War is the interaction of factors. Without a good crew, a good tank is a piece of iron. Without a good tank, a good crew is also so-so.

          30 days of war. 5 permanently destroyed tanks. From ATGM - only 3.
          And then - they thought that was not good enough, and began to put the world's first serial KAZ of a new generation. Which has already worked several times in combat conditions.
        4. Containers
          Containers 6 June 2013 23: 49 New
          0
          Give me a sec. 25 (5) for 100 days or X (5) for 30?
        5. Pimply
          Pimply 7 June 2013 01: 09 New
          +1
          30. He wrote a typo. about 60 tanks and armored vehicles. More precisely, 52 tanks were hit, 49 hit, 24 penetration. Losses - 5 irrevocably (2 of them on powerful landmines), 11 - required repair at the plant, the rest went into operation within 48 hours.
  2. beard999
    beard999 6 June 2013 16: 39 New
    +7
    Quote: Pimply
    34% is on hit. And on average, every 25th missile

    Pimpled, that's actually why there is no faith in Israeli statistics. As considered 34% of hits, of course. This number can be believed or not, but there are no questions about the technology for counting questions.
    And what do you think of the misses during the clash? The 25th missile hits, 24 fly by. And who counts them in the IDF during the battle? Who distinguishes an ATGM shot from an RPG? This is not the first time I have asked you this. I suppose you are silent because you understand perfectly well that the bike about the “average hit of every 25th missile” is Israeli goofy propaganda and nothing more. Moreover, the propaganda is very stupid and not far-fetched, designed for complete suckers.
    Quote: Pimply
    For 100 days. 25 disabled tanks

    What are the other “100 days of war”? Israeli ground forces, including tank units, invaded Lebanon on July 19, and on August 14, hostilities were already discontinued. So the "25 tanks" for 27 days of the war.
  3. ATATA
    ATATA 6 June 2013 16: 40 New
    +5
    Quote: beard999
    What are the other “100 days of war”? Israeli ground forces, including tank units, invaded Lebanon on July 19, and on August 14, hostilities were already discontinued. So the "25 tanks" for 27 days of the war.

    I will add 25 of the 100 participating.
    Minimum 25. This is what Israel itself recognizes.
  4. Pimply
    Pimply 6 June 2013 18: 47 New
    -4
    As part of the AOI ground forces in Lebanon during the Second Lebanon War, forces from 5 armored brigades operated (some of them were not in full force) - a total of about 400 tanks (more accurate figures are also given, for example, 370). The 7th regular and 847th reservist brigades were armed with Merkava Mk.2 tanks, the 188th regular and 434th reservist brigades were armed with Mk.3 Mk. 401, and the 4th regular brigade were equipped with the latest Merkava Mk.200 .100. In addition, in Lebanon, up to 9 heavy Akhzarit heavy armored personnel carriers were used, a number of Nagmakhon and Nakpadon heavy armored personnel carriers, up to 700 units of engineering equipment (Puma heavy armored personnel carriers and D113 bulldozers) - a total of about XNUMX tanks, heavy BTR and bulldozers. Ordinary armored personnel carriers (for example, MXNUMX) were not used in Lebanon, unarmored vehicles were used extremely limited.

    The defeat of tanks and armored vehicles - about 60.


    According to the total loss of tank crews:
    4 of the tank in which the entire crew died (3 from ATGMs and 1 from a landmine);
    2 tanks in which 3 tankers died;
    1 tank in which 2 tanker died;
    6 tanks in which 1 tanker died.
    Killed by tank type:
    “Merkava” MK.2 - 10 in 3 tanks (4 + 2 + 4);
    Merkava MK.3 - 9 in 4 tanks (3 + 1 + 4 + 1);
    Merkava MK.4 - 11 in 6 tanks (1 + 1 + 1 + 3 + 1 + 4).
    Note: considering cases of damaged tanks with dead crew members, you can see that the Merkava MK.4 showed the highest chance of crew survival in case of defeat. Their crew losses were 1.8 people per tank, while the Merkava MK.3 had 2.25, and the Merkava MK.2 had 3.3.
  5. Pimply
    Pimply 6 June 2013 18: 46 New
    0
    You read the statistics. Not 34% of hits, but 34% of penetrations on the Merkava 4 tank.
    The total number of launches, according to various estimates, ranged from 500 to a little more than 1000. The unit commanders were questioned, empty shot tubes from the ATGM and ATGM were considered. And in all reports, the emphasis is precisely on the fact that the figure is inaccurate. However, only this. 30, I apologize. This is about a different date, suspended.
  6. beard999
    beard999 6 June 2013 20: 28 New
    0
    Quote: Pimply
    Not 34% of hits, but 34% of penetrations on the Merkava 4 tank

    In your post (at 13:40), to which I replied, you wrote exactly this: "34% is on hit." Say what it is about "breaking through"? OK. Well, so how many ATGMs hit the tanks? 34% of penetration, of how many hits do you think? Do you have such statistics? And I still didn’t understand “34% of armor penetration for MK.4”, do you think this is a lot or a little?
    Quote: Pimply
    A survey of unit commanders was conducted, empty shotgun tubes from ATGM and ATGM were considered

    In fact, your words only confirm the far-fetchedness of Israeli "statistics." What can a survey of commanders give on a similar subject? Never mind. In your opinion, the commander in battle, under fire, there is nothing more to do, how to monitor each BTT unit, how many enemy PTS flew past it? It is especially curious how this can be calculated sitting in armor. How can a commander distinguish between the type of ammunition flying by? It is obvious that the “polls” are utter nonsense.
    About the "tubes" even funnier. Hezbollah’s most massive PTS was RPG-7 (or its Iranian clone, Saghegh). They do not have any “tubes”, just like the ATGM “Baby” (and the Iranian “Raad”), RPG-29, shots for LNG and BO, RS for Type-63 launchers, etc. do not have them. And in the end, how to determine by “tube” when, where and for what purpose the ammunition was shot? It is obvious that both “500” and “a little over 1000” are sucked from the finger, and accordingly, the statement that “every 25th rocket hit” on average is clearly contrived.
  • AlNikolaich
    AlNikolaich 6 June 2013 23: 19 New
    0
    Quote: Pimply
    I have, from several different sources.

    However, the statistics are disappointing ...
    A few questions:
    1. Irrevocable losses are given only for Merkava. Armored bulldozers CAT D9, BTR Puma and other samples are the same in the irrevocable? And how many units?
    2. What is the total number of armored vehicles involved in the operation?
    Thank you.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 6 June 2013 23: 26 New
      +1
      During the war in Lebanon, 7 fighters of engineering troops were killed, including three - from ATGM hits in two D9 bulldozers:

      10.08.06/8173/XNUMX - Major Reservist Hillel (Hillel) Nimrod, XNUMXrd Engineer Battalion, district of the village of Levona;
      13.08.06/XNUMX/XNUMX - Senior Sergeants Yevgeny Timofeev and David (Dudu) Omer, Kantara District, - the last dead before the ceasefire.
      One case of the death of a soldier with a defeat in an APC is known:

      07.08.06/101/35 - Senior Sergeant Philip Mosco, paramedic in the medical unit (TAAGAD) of the XNUMXst airborne battalion of the XNUMXth brigade dislocated his leg and was sent to the rear on the Puma armored personnel carrier. An APC was hit by an ATGM in the vicinity of the village of Dabel and Philip died.

      Information about the irretrievable losses of armored vehicles except tanks information could not be found.

      In total, about 700 cars were involved, of which about 400 were
  • rolik
    rolik 6 June 2013 10: 38 New
    13
    Quote: Professor
    The tank was hit, repaired and returned to battle reality.

    Profesor, the same can be applied to personnel. Sometimes it’s better to injure the enemy, because he will not be able to complete the task, for his evacuation it will take people involved to complete the task. So with the tanks, it stands - it smokes, does not go forward, the task has not been completed. Repair, material costs + time. Lost time is very priceless. So, do not exaggerate the essence of the issue. Lost - dropped out of the battle, did not bring any benefit, loss of quality with a decrease in quantity.
    1. Professor
      Professor 6 June 2013 10: 50 New
      -6
      Quote: rolik
      Lost - dropped out of the battle, did not bring any benefit, loss of quality with a decrease in quantity.

      The whole question is how many left the battle. If we are talking about a classic attack with a deployed formation on the trenches of an adversary, then 15 minutes outside the battle means that this tank did not complete the task. In the war under discussion, there were completely different battles and a temporary failure for 30 minutes or even a couple of hours did not solve anything.

      In general, we were very distracted from the article. RPG-29 did not lead to irretrievable losses of tanks and certainly not decided the outcome of the 2006 Lebanon-Israeli military conflict. As we know "The most modern tank formations could not overcome the defense" because there was nothing to overcome, they reached Litani. Going forward was not a task. Hostilities ceased by decision of the UN Security Council and the initiator of this decision was not Israel, but quite the opposite.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 6 June 2013 11: 00 New
        +3
        Quote: Professor
        The whole question is how many left the battle.

        At least half an hour. This is often critical.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 6 June 2013 12: 40 New
          +1
          Critical, but not always. You do not write opposite each fighter of the opponent in whom the bullet was killed. Write, injured or killed.
          Or a tick is put only for the plane, shot down and crashed, and not the one to which the engine took off the rocket, but he reached the base
        2. Lopatov
          Lopatov 6 June 2013 12: 46 New
          +6
          Wounded created even bigger problems. All of this is critical. Remember the "fall of the black", there were few killed, but the rescue of the wounded and shot down failed the entire operation
        3. Pimply
          Pimply 6 June 2013 13: 44 New
          0
          The operation failed primarily because they underestimated the enemy and got stuck in battle.

          You are now saying that there are no wounded or killed in the war at all, the equipment is not affected, and only angels fight, on which there are no traces. This is some kind of plague.
        4. Lopatov
          Lopatov 6 June 2013 15: 04 New
          +6
          The professor says so. "irrecoverable losses of 4 tanks" and that's it. But here many people know that "irrevocable" is a propaganda gem that has nothing to do with reality.
        5. Professor
          Professor 6 June 2013 16: 04 New
          -1
          Quote: Spade
          The professor says so. "irrecoverable losses of 4 tanks" and that's it. But here many people know that "irrevocable" is a propaganda gem that has nothing to do with reality.

          Not 4, but 5. "Irrevocable" is far from propaganda, otherwise only the serial number would be pasted from the destroyed tank at the factory and declared: "restored." Irrevocable are those who returned to battle neither today nor tomorrow, never. Once again, the best fight against propaganda is facts. Let's get the facts.
    2. Blackgrifon
      Blackgrifon 6 June 2013 19: 16 New
      +1
      Quote: Spade
      Wounded created even bigger problems. All of this is critical. Remember the "fall of the black", there were few killed, but the rescue of the wounded and shot down failed the entire operation


      We were taught that one wounded adversary is equal to no less than two healthy ones.

      The failure of the operation in Mogadishu was caused by:
      - underestimation of the enemy;
      - poor intelligence;
      - illiterate use of equipment in an urban environment (all BMs involved by the Americans were unarmored).
      To some extent, the assault on Grozny resembles this operation.
  • ATATA
    ATATA 6 June 2013 12: 56 New
    +7
    Quote: Pimply
    Critical, but not always.

    For a long time the military in the entire developed world have come to the conclusion that it is much better not to kill / destroy, but to injure / incapacitate.
    So the enemy spends much more resources in total for treatment / repair.
    This is the alphabet.
  • Lopatov
    Lopatov 6 June 2013 13: 13 New
    +4
    Foul alphabet, but nevertheless this is what is
  • Pimply
    Pimply 6 June 2013 13: 44 New
    -4
    Yeah. The only question is that injuries are different.
  • rolik
    rolik 6 June 2013 11: 10 New
    +5
    Quote: Professor
    The whole question is how long did you leave the battle

    I give a short answer. A soldier is wounded, moderate or severe, no difference. He cannot complete the task; more people are needed to evacuate him. Which would be useful on the battlefield. Further, mat. Funds for treatment and rehabilitation are required. All this time, the unit is idle, there is zero benefit on the battlefield.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 6 June 2013 12: 40 New
      0
      But at the same time, a soldier is not written to be killed 8))
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 6 June 2013 12: 47 New
      -1
      And how is a disabled person different from a dead person?
    3. Pimply
      Pimply 6 June 2013 13: 46 New
      +3
      Are all injured people with disabilities?

      And even in this case - it is different in that the disabled person can often continue the service. For example, I knew the serving wheelchairs - not everyone is to be an infantry. And he saw one-armed special forces from Matkal, and from Golani an officer without a hand. There are people who serve without legs.
    4. Blackgrifon
      Blackgrifon 6 June 2013 19: 21 New
      +2
      Quote: Spade
      And how is a disabled person different from a dead person?


      Ivalid - a person who has a health disorder with persistent dysfunction of the body due to diseases, the consequences of injuries or defects, leading to a limitation of life and causing the need for its social protection.
      A disabled person is able to remain a combatant - during the Second World War, there were not a few sodates and officers from both sides continued to take part in the database, without arms, legs, and who had eyes. The most famous example in our country is Aleksey Petrovich Maresyev. Another thing is that a seriously wounded fighter ceases to be a combatant for a long period of time and substantial human and material resources are spent on his salvage-treatment.
  • rolik
    rolik 6 June 2013 16: 45 New
    +2
    Quote: Pimply
    But at the same time, a soldier is not written to be killed 8))

    Him about Thomas, and here again about Erem. And here the wounded and killed. The main task is not completed. The goal of the fighter or the equipment in which the fighters are sitting, to complete the task. The task is not completed - the goal is not achieved.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 6 June 2013 18: 52 New
    0
    The loss of one tank does not mean an unfinished task, if you are talking about Thomas and Yerem. Then it turns out that any battle can be completed after the first defeat of any tank, right?
  • Blackgrifon
    Blackgrifon 6 June 2013 19: 23 New
    +1
    Quote: Pimply
    The loss of one tank does not mean an unfinished task, if you are talking about Thomas and Yerem. Then it turns out that any battle can be completed after the first defeat of any tank, right?


    It all depends on the situation - if 1 tank is lost in the connection of 40 units. On a plain, and not on a narrow road in a mountainous-marshy area, a combat mission can be completed.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 6 June 2013 19: 36 New
    0
    Right. It all depends on the specific situation.
  • saturn.mmm
    saturn.mmm 6 June 2013 23: 50 New
    0
    Quote: Professor
    "The most modern tank formations could not overcome the defense" because there was nothing to overcome - they reached Litani. There was no further progress in the task.

    On the mountain road leading to the village, two tanks stopped. First, they knocked out the head one, and then, having shot the second crew who tried to come to the rescue, they also finished off the rear one. They were shot from "Vampires" (RPG-29), just as once cavemen stoned the trapped mammoths.
    The operation to evacuate vehicles and crews was planned quickly and without detailed studies. There was no time for detailed planning, the headquarters received information that a large Hezbollah detachment was moving to this place. The circumstances could have been worse, but the militants moved, hiding in the stream of refugees, which limited their speed. However, we had no more than 4x hours for "everything about everything". The command of the operation was entrusted to the major - "Samsonist" *
    “Glad to meet you, Ahm-Fahm.” A smile flashed in the Major's eyes.
    "Actually, Uhm-Fuhm **," I replied, shaking his hand.
    The plan was simple: the special forces attack the village, diverting the forces of the militants, and we, under the cover of a smoke screen, pull out bodies and equipment.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 7 June 2013 01: 19 New
      0
      This is not a study, nor a detailed recollection. This is a story where the author greatly embellishes everything.
    2. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm 7 June 2013 10: 52 New
      0
      Quote: Pimply
      This is not a study, nor a detailed recollection.

      You claim that an Israeli army officer came up with this

      Shot from "Vampires" (RPG-29)
  • Pimply
    Pimply 6 June 2013 12: 37 New
    0
    Therefore, the loss of personal composition and are noted not affected, but divided into killed, wounded and sanitary losses.
    1. rolik
      rolik 6 June 2013 16: 48 New
      0
      Quote: Pimply
      Therefore, the loss of personal composition and are noted not affected, but divided into killed, wounded and sanitary losses.

      This is all known, but again the time wasted that wasted on recovery, repair. And in transient operations, time is priceless. In the USSR and in modern Russia, there are also many, and much more than in other armies, examples where injured soldiers performed miracles on the battlefield. But this is only after their long stay in hospitals, it took time for treatment.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 6 June 2013 18: 54 New
        -2
        More than 700 vehicles took part in the operation. Over the entire period of hostilities 50 tanks were hit, most of them return to duty within a few hours. Have you looked at statistics for other wars?
  • Pimply
    Pimply 6 June 2013 12: 31 New
    -1
    OK. 24 tanks were shot down. 53 hits, 24 penetrations recorded. So much more? The main penetration is not RPG-29, but ATGM. Some of the tanks returned to battle a few hours later. A tank with a caterpillar that has flown down is also considered damaged Or whose motor has stalled?
    1. rolik
      rolik 6 June 2013 16: 50 New
      +2
      Quote: Pimply
      A tank with a caterpillar that has flown down is also considered damaged? Or whose motor has stalled?

      Temporarily out of the battle. And while they put the goose in place, it is not yet known how the situation may change. Maybe their tank would have played a decisive role if it hadn’t removed the caterpillar and not died out.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 6 June 2013 18: 55 New
        -1
        Then you do not have to fight at all. Are you trying to come up with an indestructible tank ???? There are none, and never will be. The likelihood of destruction is reduced, but indestructible. War losses are the rule, not the exception.
    2. svp67
      svp67 6 June 2013 16: 53 New
      +1
      Quote: Pimply
      A tank with a caterpillar that has flown down is also considered damaged? Or whose motor has stalled?

      It all depends on what the given embarrassment occurred:
      - if, thanks to the opposition of the enemy, then undoubtedly ...
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 6 June 2013 18: 55 New
        0
        No, just like that.
  • Perch_xnumx
    Perch_xnumx 6 June 2013 09: 17 New
    +7
    Hi Goebels.
    Goebbels is more to you. Those who directly or indirectly support terrorists, Salafists, rapists and murderers cannot be called God's people, in this case they support lies and deceit, and their army is a satanic army, for this, I think, you will be betrayed in due time and yourself will taste it what people in Syria ate.
    1. Rakti-kali
      Rakti-kali 6 June 2013 12: 42 New
      +4
      Quote: Perch_1
      Goebbels is more to you. Those who directly or indirectly support terrorists, Salafists, rapists and murderers cannot be called God's people, in this case they support lies and deceit, and their army is a satanic army, for this, I think, you will be betrayed in due time and yourself will taste it what people in Syria ate.

      What a short but clear and concise definition of the policy of the USA, Israel and their accomplices.
    2. Pimply
      Pimply 6 June 2013 12: 43 New
      +3
      Russia does not recognize Hamas as a terrorist organization, although those control the thousands of terrorist acts in which thousands of people were killed, including Russian citizens. The same story with Hezbollah - although, for example, Hezbollah killed Soviet citizens, and intentionally. Does it follow from this that Russia supports lies and deceit?

      Israel does not support all those you have listed. Israel simply does not like either one or the other.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 6 June 2013 13: 15 New
        0
        Russia believes that it, as the only member of the "Middle East Four", should talk to them.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 6 June 2013 13: 48 New
          +1
          I understand that very well. But comrades here like to give angry definitions.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 6 June 2013 15: 00 New
            +2
            Does it bother you that we don’t often say that they are bitches and terrorists? All adequate understand this.
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 6 June 2013 18: 57 New
              0
              I am not. Politics is a dirty game, and measuring it with the usual framework is extremely difficult. It’s just amusing to me when they try to do this, opening their eyes to one thing, while completely ignoring the other.
      2. Perch_xnumx
        Perch_xnumx 6 June 2013 15: 38 New
        +2
        Israel does not support all those you have listed. Israel simply does not like either one or the other.
        Israel is the best friend of the United States so. But who gave the money to the bandits, realizing that they would definitely go to terrorists, Salafists, who supplied weapons, who turned a blind eye to terrorist acts, atrocities, murders of civilians, rape. Who blocked the UN resolutions on terrorist attacks in Syria. Who supported and continues to support non-people - terrorist rebels, realizing that if the bandits win, there will be massacre, robbery, murder, settling accounts, anarchies and lawlessness. Who else but Israel launched a coordinated terrorist attack on Damascus. Israel knew and knows everything that is happening in Syria, on which parades how many weapons go to the bandits, how much money someone received, what massacres and terrorist attacks are going on there. But never once did he clearly and clearly say, did not distance himself.
        So what is the support of the Salafi-savage jihad in Syria? Is there really a difference between women raped and murdered in Syria and those who suffered in Israel or America? So what is Nazism really? (A. Wasserman) What, then, is the Holocaust? So who is Goebbels?
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 6 June 2013 19: 02 New
          0
          Sori, how was Israel to act? "Obama, friend, you are the one with Syria, which sponsors Hezbollah and a friend of Iran, take it easy. Don't care that we have been fighting with Syria since the 48th, when it attacked us, and don't care that the Syrians are sponsoring terrorists. We will love Syria all the same. "

          Or maybe declare it, and get additional Sunni terrorists?

          And what a friend in politics, you can explain. There are no friends in politics. There are allies. NO MORE. All have their own interests.

          What a joy this kindergarten is. Both warring parties adhere to and adhered to terrorist methods, including targeted shelling of civilians, suicide attacks and so on. Why are some terrorists better than others? Have you ever taught the history of the Middle East? Go with your kindergarten to the forest.
          1. Kirgudum
            Kirgudum 6 June 2013 21: 57 New
            0
            Pimpled, that means you approve of terrorism directed against your enemy. and condemn terrorism directed against you? These are full-time double standards of Israel and the West. The normal position is to condemn terrorism as a whole, no matter who it comes from. You do not do this.
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 6 June 2013 22: 10 New
              +1
              Do not distort my thoughts. I say again - it’s silly to approach politics from the standpoint of ordinary morality. Did I say somewhere that I approve of this? I also do not approve of terrorists. I am deeply unsympathetic as the guys from Hezbollah, howling on the side of Assad, and the Salafis. So there is no need here to tell tales about double standards and to sing. Not tired of broadcasting stamps from the telly?
      3. rolik
        rolik 6 June 2013 16: 50 New
        +2
        Quote: Pimply
        Israel does not support all those you have listed. Israel simply does not like either one or the other.

        Israel supports cannibals fighting in Syria.
  • Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi 6 June 2013 17: 20 New
    +1
    Quote: Professor

    Accepted - only 5 (five) tanks could not continue to carry out the combat mission. The rest were tinted and thrown back into battle. Hi Goebels. soldier

    Not this way. Of the 52 wrecked units, 5 armored vehicles were found to be inappropriate for restoration, 11 were sent for factory repair, and the rest were returned to service within an hour to 48 hours from the moment of defeat.
  • ATATA
    ATATA 6 June 2013 10: 44 New
    +4
    Quote: Professor
    Do you propose a scratch on the paint or loss of a caterpillar as a loss? If the on-site repair team replaced the SU and the tank returned to battle after 30 minutes, then what about Goebels?

    Professor, everything is described here without unnecessary demagogy.
    http://clubs.ya.ru/4611686018427437926/replies.xml?item_no=1818
    A short selection of key quotes.
    On 18.08.06/4450/17.08.06, Michael Mass (“gmXNUMX”) published data on a meeting of armored forces veterans with Major General Haluti Ruda, Chief Officer of the Merkava Tank Development Directorate, Major General Amir Nir and with Lieutenant General Yosi Ben-Hanan. Details of the meeting were not allowed for publication, but the following was stated:

    during the battles, Hezbollah fired more than 1,000 ATGMs and RPG grenades, including mostly ATGMs, with medium and high armor penetration;

    start / hit ratio - 25: 1, i.e. only every 25th rocket or grenade hit the tank;

    approximately every second hit pierced the armor of tanks;

    about half of the tanks whose armor was broken were dead; in general, it can be said that on average there was 1 dead for each penetration of the armor. A total of 30 tankers died and 25 were injured;

    So about the scratches on the paint, tell the mothers of the dead tankers, and here we have machines for removing noodles from the ears.
    If the Arab warriors would aim at more precisely.
    That would be even sadder for Israel.
    1. Professor
      Professor 6 June 2013 10: 55 New
      -6
      Quote: ATATA
      Professor, everything is described here without unnecessary demagogy.

      I have already posted a link to the original of this article here, be careful.

      Quote: ATATA
      So about the scratches on the paint, tell the mothers of the dead tankers, and here we have machines for removing noodles from the ears.

      Focus your attention on the RPG under discussion and how he "stopped the offensive", then we will talk about noodles.
      1. ATATA
        ATATA 6 June 2013 11: 00 New
        +3
        Quote: Professor
        Focus your attention on the RPG under discussion and how he "stopped the offensive", then we will talk about noodles.

        Quote: Professor
        The rest were tinted and thrown back into battle. Hi Goebels.

        Well, who here draws attention to scratches, or how can you read here, don’t you read here?
        1. Professor
          Professor 6 June 2013 11: 03 New
          -1
          Quote: ATATA
          Well, who here draws attention to scratches, or how can you read here, don’t you read here?

          I sharpen-read my first comment, the one to which the discussion went into the wilds.
          1. ATATA
            ATATA 6 June 2013 11: 05 New
            +2
            Quote: Professor
            I sharpen-read my first comment, the one to which the discussion went into the wilds.

            Nuth so you brought her there in the wilds. I am in your wilds and stray.
            I am looking for the truth.
            Well, if You point, then what are my questions?
            ps Actually, it's not interesting to argue with you.
            You apply logic, only where it is convenient for you and where it is not convenient, then you offer not to sharpen it.
            Well right, this is ridiculous.
            1. Professor
              Professor 6 June 2013 11: 09 New
              -1
              Quote: ATATA
              Nuth so you brought her there in the wilds. I am in your wilds and stray.
              I am looking for the truth.
              Well, if you are sharpening, then what are my questions?

              With pleasure I will lead you out to the fantasies written in the article.
              The unexpected use of these weapons in the 2006 Lebanese-Israeli military conflict decided its outcome. The most modern tank formations could not overcome the defense. Hostilities ceased.
              1. ATATA
                ATATA 6 June 2013 11: 19 New
                +3
                Quote: Professor
                With pleasure I will lead you out to the fantasies written in the article.

                The unexpected use of these weapons in the 2006 Lebanese-Israeli military conflict decided its outcome. The most modern tank formations could not overcome the defense. Hostilities ceased.

                Thank you!
                I was relieved. hi
    2. Pimply
      Pimply 6 June 2013 12: 47 New
      -3
      There were 24 armor penetrations from 52 or 53 hits. On average, during the war of 1973, more than 2 tankers died on a tank. Here 1. A marked decrease in losses. Merkava 4 performed better compared to Merkava 2 and 3 - 34 percent of penetration versus 54 and 50.
      100 tanks were destroyed in 24 days of battle, 5 of which were lost irrevocably (3 from ATGMs, 2 from HEs). Most of the tanks returned to service after a few hours.

      In this case, we are talking about RPG-29. We were not talking about his any significant role. Moreover, various types of ATGMs are mentioned in Israeli reports, but not RPG-29
    3. Blackgrifon
      Blackgrifon 6 June 2013 19: 30 New
      0
      Quote: ATATA
      So about the scratches on the paint, tell the mothers of the dead tankers, and here we have machines for removing noodles from the ears. If the Arab warriors would aim more accurately, that would be even sadder for Israel.


      The point is not only in the level of training of the Arabs. Israeli tanks are good in the front of the engine compartment - this increases the protection of the crew in frontal defeat of BM. Another thing is that with the defeat of Merkava 4 to the side or to the tower, the statistics will not differ much from the similar defeat of the T-90 - in these cases, the main thing is that the DZ should work as it should and as intended.
  • Blackgrifon
    Blackgrifon 6 June 2013 19: 06 New
    +1
    Quote: Spade
    I like this expression in relation to technology: "lost forever." Directly a find for propaganda. But in general, this is not your know-how, German. The department invented Goebbels.


    This know-how has been known since Ancient Egypt - a description of the battle of Kadesh.

    I read the official report of the Americans about the losses in tanks during the invasion of Iraq - judging by the document, all the tanks were lost not because of their defeat by the enemy, but because of the impossibility of repair, "indirect consequences of an enemy hit", etc. But what they understood by "indirect consequences of the enemy hit" - the explosion of a B / P, etc. - not specified - STATISTICS.
  • apro
    apro 6 June 2013 08: 51 New
    +7
    For a Jew, you need to count twice, for a Jew in uniform .....
    1. Professor
      Professor 6 June 2013 08: 56 New
      -4
      Quote: apro
      For a Jew, you need to count twice, for a Jew in uniform .....

      If you are not a cheap troll, then count and show where these "Jews in uniform" deceived everyone. wassat
      1. apro
        apro 6 June 2013 09: 16 New
        +6
        Yes, at least the Israeli Air Force’s action on the northern front in the battles of 1972, the losses of the parties vary by 4 times and the Israeli planes do not fall.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 6 June 2013 09: 21 New
          10
          Come on, why the professors attacked. For the population of Israel, data on real losses are as closed as for the rest of the world.
          That the Israeli soldier unlimitedly believed in the prodigy of his weapon
          1. Professor
            Professor 6 June 2013 09: 46 New
            0
            Quote: apro
            Yes, at least the Israeli Air Force’s action on the northern front in the battles of 1972, the losses of the parties vary by 4 times and the Israeli planes do not fall.

            You probably meant the year 1982? Nevertheless, the Arab allegations of allegedly shot down Israeli planes have not been confirmed in any way, neither debris, nor photographs, nor captured pilots.

            Quote: Spade
            Come on, why the professors attacked. For the population of Israel, data on real losses are as closed as for the rest of the world.
            That the Israeli soldier unlimitedly believed in the prodigy of his weapon

            You measure everyone by yourself. In Israel, even theoretically, it is impossible to hide the death of even one soldier. All the victims are known by name. Everything. The military censorship does not control social networks, but even there no photos of "dozens of tanks destroyed and hidden by the IDF appear." Once again, develop legends with facts.
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 6 June 2013 12: 56 New
              -1
              Especially considering the fact that a large part of the soldiers were reservists with cell phones with cameras.
          2. Pimply
            Pimply 6 June 2013 12: 55 New
            -1
            Shovels, no nonsense. Israel is a small country. Hiding at least one loss is unrealistic. One similar situation - and the government flies to resign, and for those that have hidden something like that, entry into politics will be closed forever. All the dead and missing are known by name. Missing persons have their own sites, funds, support groups for relatives and search.

            I understand that for Russia, where they do not even consider missing persons, it seems that the losses are easy to write off. But Israel is not Russia, it is a different situation, a different mentality, and other conditions.

            There is no tangible evidence of fraud in Israeli casualties, not in any of the wars.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 6 June 2013 13: 17 New
              0
              I can hide the trauma within one battalion. It is less than Israel.
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 6 June 2013 13: 53 New
                +3
                Yeah. And if the injury is severe and requires hospitalization? And if there is a murdered or dead? And if this is Israel, where soldiers every weekend go home with a different mentality, not Russian, who know that it is possible and necessary to contact the prosecutor's office in certain situations?

                Then two generals flew from their posts, one for giving his son a ride on an ATV, and the other - that his wife was driving the car assigned to him. Kapets career is quite fighting guys - tried to lie that one, that the second. One in general was demoted to colonel at first - then returned, however. The Chief of General Staff, already appointed, did not become the Chief of General Staff due to the fact that he made an extra extension to the house and it surfaced. Presedint sat down for rape, another was convicted of corruption, ministers were imprisoned for completing a hut at a discount from a contractor - that is, by Russian standards, "not for anything."

                What are you talking about concealment of losses in such conditions?
      2. Zopuhhh
        Zopuhhh 6 June 2013 10: 54 New
        +5
        Professor, as in any army, it’s customary to underestimate one’s losses, but not a single army in the world understates their losses, like the American and Israeli ...
        And how to quickly clear the information field we saw enough in 2008. So I am inclined to consider the losses of Israel in that conflict a little larger than what is generally accepted in the promised land ...
        1. Professor
          Professor 6 June 2013 11: 01 New
          -4
          Quote: Zopuhhh
          Professor, as in any army, it’s customary to underestimate one’s losses, but not a single army in the world understates their losses, like the American and Israeli ...
          And how to quickly clear the information field we saw enough in 2008. So I am inclined to consider the losses of Israel in that conflict a little larger than what is generally accepted in the promised land ...

          I'm starting to get tired of repeating that in Israel, even theoretically, it is impossible to hide the death of even one soldier. This is an indisputable fact and no one has ever been able to refute it. All the victims are known by name - I can show you the list. Everything. The military censorship does not control social networks, but even there no photos of "dozens of tanks destroyed and hidden by the IDF appear." Facts, facts and more facts.
        2. Pimply
          Pimply 6 June 2013 13: 04 New
          -2
          In Israel, it is even theoretically impossible to hide losses. Strong independent press. A very small country. Serious opposition, which is just waiting for how to catch the government on something. An attempt to hide real losses is a wolf ticket to politics. In addition, certain religious moments are mixed in there.

          Currently, since 1860, 23 IDF military personnel, police, border guards, general security services, foreign intelligence services, prison management, fire protection and activists of Jewish underground organizations in the territory of mandated Palestine, as well as 085 victims of terrorist attacks.
        3. il grand casino
          il grand casino 6 June 2013 17: 42 New
          +4
          My friend served in the IDF. Every day his mother called on his cell phone. Imagine what wave a Jewish Jewish mother would have raised if something had happened to her son, and they would have tried to hide it. I can understand that it is possible to hide the loss of technology ... but to hide the loss of life in Israel? ... well, to my mind it seems ridiculous to every person familiar with Jewish families)))
    2. cth; fyn
      cth; fyn 6 June 2013 16: 31 New
      +1
      for a Jew in uniform .....

      Multiple of his rank.
  • mark1
    mark1 6 June 2013 09: 50 New
    +4
    Quote: Professor
    So here it is what the problem is, Beirut stood it. laughing Thank you enlightened. good Nevertheless, Tsakhal went to the banks of the Letani River where he planned to go irretrievably, losing as many as 5 (five) tanks.

    All the same, I wonder what kind of defense (defense of what) these tanks could not overcome?

    "... according to the official data of the Israeli side, in the remaining few days of the operation, only the killed IDF lost more than in the entire previous time (8-51 people as of August 57). It should be noted that there are large losses in armored vehicles, including tanks. So, only On August 9, according to Qatari satellite TV channel Al Jazeera, at least ten Merkava tanks (17 reported by Hezbollah) were destroyed. The next day, the ground forces were so severely damaged that Lebanese newspapers called this day “In the afternoon of the Merkava - the militants, according to Lebanese data, managed to knock out 15 Israeli tanks (Tel Aviv admitted the loss of only five vehicles.) However, the heaviest losses were suffered by the Israeli troops on August 12, when 24 soldiers were killed, one helicopter was shot down and at least at least one tank (officially recognized by the Israeli command; the militants announced the destruction of seven combat vehicles).

    Thus, in just one week, the Israelis missed about 30 tanks. In total, for the entire period of the conflict, the militants managed to knock out about 60 combat vehicles (according to other sources, about 150.
    This fact is of significant interest. The fact is that the Merkava Mk3 and Mk4, which are in service with the Israeli armed forces, despite their relatively low mobility (compared to other modern main battle tanks) (due to their large mass - over 60 tons), are among the most protected tanks of the world. However, they actually turned out to be helpless in front of the anti-tank (PT) means available to Hezbollah. The militants, who possessed a sufficiently large number of ATGMs, actively used them at long and maximum firing ranges when tank weapons were not so effective. In addition, according to statements by the Israeli command, 44 soldiers were also killed by ATGM fighters.

    Another effective anti-tank weapon available to Hezbollah, according to the Israeli military and the press, were hand-held anti-tank grenade launchers. The defeat of tanks with these means was carried out mainly during battles in populated areas. "
    1. Professor
      Professor 6 June 2013 09: 57 New
      -3
      Quote: mark1
      Thus, in just one week, the Israelis missed about 30 tanks. In total, over the entire period of the conflict, the militants managed to knock out about 60 combat vehicles (according to other sources - about 150. "

      Not 150, but 1500 tanks. Evidence is still not necessary.
      1. mark1
        mark1 6 June 2013 10: 05 New
        +5
        Alas, there are no breakable tanks and no downed planes ... Humble yourself, professor.
        1. Professor
          Professor 6 June 2013 10: 20 New
          0
          Quote: mark1
          Alas, there are no breakable tanks and no downed planes ... Humble yourself, professor.

          Never said anything like that. Moreover: impenetrable only (not about you and me). However, let's not cheat on the loss figures.
          1. mark1
            mark1 6 June 2013 15: 09 New
            +1
            Quote: Professor
            impenetrable only

            I liked your answer. +
            I'm taking my leave for sim
        2. Pimply
          Pimply 6 June 2013 13: 08 New
          0
          Quite right. And nobody claims this. And when I hear that from some ardent comrade who proves that the loss of the Merkav, "which the Jews are indestructible" - one hundred thousand million - is funny to me. Because no one declared it indestructible, and because there are clear numbers of losses, with names, dates, breakdown by type of tanks, and so on. All the names of the soldiers and commanders are known, again with dates and other things.
    2. Gari
      Gari 6 June 2013 10: 00 New
      +4
      These tanks?
      RPG-29 real weapon
      1. Professor
        Professor 6 June 2013 10: 08 New
        -1
        Quote: Gari
        These tanks?
        RPG-29 real weapon

        RPG-29 is a real weapon and you should not argue with this, but how does the heavy coup overturned APC Puma relate to RPG? request
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 6 June 2013 10: 12 New
          +2
          Moreover, he is not lost, is he?
          1. Professor
            Professor 6 June 2013 10: 18 New
            +1
            Quote: Spade
            Moreover, he is not lost, is he?

            Lost for 30 minutes. We drove the D-9, put Puma on his feet and continued walking.

            PS
            How long does it take to pull a track? wink
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 6 June 2013 10: 47 New
              +1
              Quote: Professor
              How long does it take to pull a track?

              It depends on how much you need to pull and how tight the tension mechanism is. Sometimes you have to shoe up and shoot along the track with one and the other goose - this is a long time. And so, from strength with half a minute.

              But to put on a shot caterpillar is a completely different matter
      2. igor67
        igor67 6 June 2013 10: 09 New
        +4
        Quote: Gari
        These tanks?
        RPG-29 real weapon

        The minus from me is simply that we’ve already uploaded this picture a hundred times here and discussed, this tank was blown up on a land mine, and what is the connection with the RPG?
        1. Gari
          Gari 6 June 2013 10: 41 New
          +2
          Quote: igor67
          The minus from me is simply that we’ve already uploaded this picture a hundred times here and discussed, this tank was blown up on a land mine, and what is the connection with the RPG?

          And you only noticed the inverted armored personnel carrier Puma?
          But the tank standing at a distance, but did not pay attention to the turmoil tower ???
          RPG-29 is a real weapon and you should not argue with that,Professor -
          here is the real answer, and here it seems an article about this is that one RPG that is several times cheaper and in the hands of one slightly trained soldier turns a formidable and very expensive tank into a pile of scrap metal, but I’m not talking about the fate of a well-trained crew
          1. igor67
            igor67 6 June 2013 10: 57 New
            0
            And no one argues that there were no losses, I personally saw one wrecked tank, I drove along the highway, drove on a tractor, from the front of the tank I could clearly see a hit, I can’t argue the rest with the Internet
          2. Professor
            Professor 6 June 2013 10: 57 New
            0
            Quote: Gari
            But the tank standing at a distance, but did not pay attention to the turmoil tower ???

            What is the broken tower? Are you talking about a basket for transporting all kinds of junk in the stern of the tower covered with a tarp? This tarpaulin is so "knocked out"? wink
            Your photo is off topic.
            1. Gari
              Gari 6 June 2013 11: 43 New
              +2
              Is this a photo in the subject?
              The tank ,, Merkava ,, is considered as far as I know, the most expensive, but also the safest tank for the crew in the world, but here and the fact that I already wrote one grenade launcher with RPGs and all tanks to any tank, your guys die in this war, young women become widows, and children orphans, and who did not even have time to even get married.
              Why do people exterminate each other?
              1. Professor
                Professor 6 June 2013 11: 51 New
                0
                Quote: Gari
                Is this a photo in the subject?

                No, not the topic, Ahper Jan.
                GPG-29 is the topic of discussion.

                Quote: Gari
                The tank ,, Merkava ,, is considered as far as I know, the most expensive, but also the safest tank for the crew in the world, but here and the fact that I already wrote one grenade launcher with RPGs and all tanks to any tank, your guys die in this war, young women become widows, and children orphans, and who did not even have time to even get married.

                No, far from the most expensive. The most expensive Japanese tank. hi
                1. Gari
                  Gari 6 June 2013 12: 12 New
                  +2
                  Are you talking about Type-90?
                  Maybe you're right, only where are they and with whom the Japanese fought with him?
                  And your, Merkava, as they say, doesn’t rest, I saw a very thoughtful tank on Diskaveri, especially in terms of crew safety
              2. Lopatov
                Lopatov 6 June 2013 12: 10 New
                +5
                It is unlikely that the crew suffered

                Quote: Gari
                Why do people exterminate each other?

                Genetics. We are like that. Take away aggression from us, and we will rot like vegetables in a garden with ideal conditions.
                1. Gari
                  Gari 6 June 2013 12: 15 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Spade
                  Genetics. We are like that. Take away aggression from us, and we will rot like vegetables in a garden with ideal conditions.

                  Are we predators in the jungle?
                  and the fittest survives
              3. Pimply
                Pimply 6 June 2013 13: 23 New
                +4
                The most expensive are Koreans and Japanese. About 12 million dollars. The price of Merkava is about $ 3.5 million, along with the Trophy system, which they began to actively install after this war, and which has already repelled several attacks. That is, about the same cost is the Russian T-90, whose cost was announced at the level of 118 million rubles.
                1. ATATA
                  ATATA 6 June 2013 13: 41 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Pimply
                  The price of Merkava is about $ 3.5 million, along with the Trophy system, which they began to actively install after this war, and which has already repelled several attacks. That is, about the same cost is the Russian T-90, whose cost was announced at the level of 118 million rubles.

                  Not not 3.5 lyama. I found the number 5 lyamov.
                  1. Pimply
                    Pimply 6 June 2013 14: 02 New
                    0
                    3.5. Information came from several sources. In addition, the price of the trophy was announced - 250-300 dollars in various trim levels. It was indicated that this is a tenth of the cost of the Merkava tank. Which, in general, coincided with the general figures. 3.5 million. On the foreign market - if it goes there, maybe there will be 5. But for the domestic market - 3.5 lyam.
                  2. Gari
                    Gari 6 June 2013 14: 23 New
                    +2
                    [quote = ATATA] Not not 3.5 lyama. I found the number 5 lyam. [/ Quote
                    And the cost of crew life?
                    ,, Merkava ,, the safest tank engine located in front is another defense for the crew, but behind the hatch
                    The Israeli tank Merkava Mk4 occupies a leading position in the ranking of world tank builders' leaders, compiled annually by the authoritative American military analysis agency Forecast International, surpassing such serious competitors as the German Leopard tank or the Russian T-90 in its combat characteristics. Many experts consider the Merkava tank the best main battle tank in the world.
                    Of course, this is the opinion of the Americans, but as we see, their own, Abrams, do not remember
                    1. ATATA
                      ATATA 6 June 2013 15: 12 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Gari
                      In the ranking of world tank building leaders, annually compiled by the reputable American military-analytical agency Forecast International, the Israeli tank Merkava Mk4 takes a leading place,

                      In America, the Jewish lobby is the strongest.
                      So every sandpiper praises his swamp.
                      And according to the statistics of losses, see above. On average one killed one tank per tank.
                      This is a good result.
                    2. tixon444
                      tixon444 6 June 2013 17: 12 New
                      +3
                      Quote: Gari
                      or Russian T-90. Many experts consider the Merkava tank to be the best main battle tank in the world.


                      It all depends on the combat training of the crew, the ability to use the terrain. In modern combat, tanks do not live long. Especially if the attack aircraft intervenes. And no matter what your slipper is called - Merkava, Abrams. Lucky if you have time to jump out.
                    3. Pimply
                      Pimply 6 June 2013 19: 06 New
                      -3
                      Not really. If the enemy has serious aviation, then there is another question. Or if the enemy is partisan formations.
                  3. Pimply
                    Pimply 6 June 2013 19: 05 New
                    0
                    In the picture - the armored personnel carrier Ahzarit, made from t-55.
                  4. Blackgrifon
                    Blackgrifon 6 June 2013 19: 45 New
                    0
                    Quote: Gari
                    In the ranking of world tank building leaders, annually compiled by the reputable American military-analytical agency Forecast International, the Israeli Merkava Mk4 tank takes the leading place, surpassing such serious competitors as the German Leopard tank or the Russian T-90 in its combat characteristics. Many experts consider the Merkava tank to be the best main battle tank in the world. Of course, this is the opinion of the Americans, but as we see, they don’t remember their own Abrams either


                    The main advantage of the tanks of the Merkava family is the front location of the engine compartment, which increases the survival of the crew during frontal shelling. But the big question is how much is the crew protected when firing at the rear of the tank?
                    Side armor and DZ merkav not much superior to armor and DZ T-90 and T-72 of the latest modifications.
                    Currently, the most warring tanks are the T-72 and the Merkava. Abrams is far from the number of fights in which these machines took part. Leopards and Challengers fought very little. The Yankees cannot recognize our domestic tank better than Abrams or Leopard (which is superior to Abrams). The result is one - appointed merkava.
          3. tixon444
            tixon444 6 June 2013 12: 43 New
            +1
            Quote: Professor
            Quote: Gari
            But the tank standing at a distance, but did not pay attention to the turmoil tower ???

            What is the broken tower? Are you talking about a basket for transporting all kinds of junk in the stern of the tower covered with a tarp? This tarpaulin is so "knocked out"? wink
            Your photo is off topic.


            Here, without a word, it is clear that the armored personnel carrier lying with its paws upward fell into a ditch, avoiding the "irrecoverable loss" in the person of a tank that stopped to pee at the first pillar with a laundry basket on the turret.
        2. Tourist Breakfast
          Tourist Breakfast 6 June 2013 11: 49 New
          +1
          RPG-29 is a real weapon and you should not argue with that, professor


          Where does infa come from that it was RPG-29 that was used for sabzh? On most Hezbollah videos with Israeli tank defeats, judging by the distance, ATGMs are used.
        3. Pimply
          Pimply 6 June 2013 13: 20 New
          -1
          You didn’t notice that this is a tank tower, deployed on the back side. With traditional fringe for Merkav and other backdrop charms. This is what a serious breakout usually looks like. Such a small hole.
      3. Gari
        Gari 6 June 2013 10: 51 New
        +6
        From the very beginning, Israel has been fighting, fighting successfully, despite the fact that it is surrounded by enemies that are much superior both in numbers and territories
        In Tsakhal, almost one in four servicemen speaks Russian.
      4. Pimply
        Pimply 6 June 2013 13: 15 New
        0
        Not a tank. This is an engineering "Puma", based on the "Centurion"
    3. Lopatov
      Lopatov 6 June 2013 10: 09 New
      -1
      This changeling is not a permanent loss.
      1. igor67
        igor67 6 June 2013 10: 24 New
        +3
        . How do you rate hitting an RPG in a given tank?
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 6 June 2013 10: 52 New
          0
          The devil knows what it is. By the way, why people jump out of the top, the "Merkava" has a way out in the stern. Are you tired of living, or is it a staged video?
          1. Blackgrifon
            Blackgrifon 6 June 2013 19: 51 New
            +2
            Has anyone noticed how many tankers left the tank? I counted two - most likely a commander and a gunner. The mechanic and loader could get out through the aft hatch.
    4. Pimply
      Pimply 6 June 2013 13: 11 New
      0
      Do you know that the inverted lies not the tank, but the engineering BMP Puma? Which, to all, is not hit, but turned over?
  • Blackgrifon
    Blackgrifon 6 June 2013 19: 34 New
    +2
    Quote: mark1
    Thus, in just one week, the Israelis missed about 30 tanks. In total, for the entire period of the conflict, the militants managed to knock out about 60 combat vehicles (according to other sources, about 150.


    Also, militants in Chechnya invented myths about the complete destruction of entire regiments. Killing a tank does not guarantee its failure.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 6 June 2013 19: 44 New
      -1
      It was possible to strike really about 60 cars. The rest of the statistics - 5 tanks were lost forever, 11 - went to factory repair, the rest - returned to service within 48 hours.
  • Gari
    Gari 6 June 2013 09: 58 New
    +7
    Interesting photo
    1. cth; fyn
      cth; fyn 6 June 2013 16: 56 New
      0
      It is not clear what the RPG and BPS have to do with it.
  • Apostle
    Apostle 8 June 2013 14: 46 New
    0
    And that someone doubted the strength of our weapons (among other things the best in the world)?!? Good article, thanks to the author !!!
  • Lopatov
    Lopatov 6 June 2013 08: 52 New
    +2
    And when they finally guess that these tissue bundles add. charges on mortar rounds, to put it mildly, impractical?
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 6 June 2013 10: 21 New
      0
      Judging by the plus, someone knows what it is about.

      In general, these vintage cotton bags from the first third of the XNUMXth century greatly limit the use of mortars. And they are a huge obstacle to the creation of self-propelled vehicles with automatic loaders.
      1. report4
        report4 6 June 2013 11: 37 New
        +2
        On the one hand, yes, but on the other hand, trained calculation makes it possible to quickly change the firing range without carrying the mortar itself.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 6 June 2013 12: 14 New
          0
          Not a range but a trajectory. You can shoot small and long-range, but the higher the trajectory, the lower the accuracy.

          But the point is not that they are uncomfortable
    2. neri73-r
      neri73-r 6 June 2013 10: 45 New
      0
      But the charge weight easily varies, more is needed - please, less - also here you are !!! fellow
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 6 June 2013 11: 07 New
        +3
        No canvas bags with thread loops. And how do they cope?
        Who do you think will prepare the second charge faster, this American Latinos or our Yashka-mortar?
  • Yun Klob
    Yun Klob 6 June 2013 09: 09 New
    +1
    They couldn’t force the river, the tanks were too heavy.
  • Russ69
    Russ69 6 June 2013 09: 46 New
    0
    Quote: Professor
    The unexpected use of these weapons in the 2006 Lebanese-Israeli military conflict decided its outcome. The most modern tank formations could not overcome the defense. Hostilities ceased.

    So here it is what the problem is, Beirut stood it. laughing Thank you enlightened. good Nevertheless, Tsakhal went to the banks of the Letani River where he planned to go irretrievably while losing as many as 5 (five) tanks.

    All the same, I wonder what kind of defense (defense of what) these tanks could not overcome?


    Professor, did you complete the task or what? Did you save a couple of corporals or did you have to return with nothing?
    Of course, I do not belittle the ability and capabilities of the IDF, your army is at its best. But, an extreme operation cannot be called successful ...
    5 - "irrecoverable", and how many damaged were there? If it `s not a secret.
    1. Professor
      Professor 6 June 2013 09: 54 New
      +4
      Quote: Russ69
      Professor, did you complete the task or what?

      The task was completed. Here, many believe that the IDF tried to take Beirut, but the tasks assigned to the army were clearly voiced by Prime Minister Olmert at his speech in the Knesset.

      Quote: Russ69
      Of course, I do not belittle the ability and capabilities of the IDF, your army is at its best. But, an extreme operation cannot be called successful ...

      The results speak for themselves. Nevertheless, a commission was created under the leadership of Judge Vinograd, which identified the shortcomings of the operation and made suggestions. In particular, it was said about the need to strengthen the teachings of the reservists and pay more attention to civil defense (service of the rear).

      Quote: Russ69
      5 - "irrecoverable", and how many damaged were there? If it `s not a secret.

      Loss of armored vehicles in the Second Lebanon War
      In total, about 60 BTT units received combat damage, including 48-52 tank. 5 tanks were irretrievably lost - 3 from hit ATGMs (one each Merkava Mk.2, MK.3 and MK.4) and 2 from explosives (one Merkava MK.2 and MK.4).
      and not one from the RPG described in this article. hi
    2. Pimply
      Pimply 6 June 2013 13: 30 New
      -2
      24 penetration, 49 defeats, 52 or 53 hits in 100 days of the war.

      The tasks, de facto, were mostly fulfilled, with the exception of the return of the bodies of soldiers captured at the very beginning of the war. Before the war, shelling of the northern border of Israel was carried out regularly. After her - silence.
  • Bongo
    Bongo 6 June 2013 09: 48 New
    +5
    What is the attitude of the current director general of the SNPP Basalt-Alexander RYBAS to the success of this enterprise? All his activity in this post is a continuous series of scandals.
  • Russ69
    Russ69 6 June 2013 10: 04 New
    0
    Quote: Professor
    and not one from the RPG described in this article.

    In all fairness, the locals have nothing new in principle. RPG-7, the subwoofer itself is not enough for the "Merkava", but there was damage. Yes, and the RPG created a tank to disable at least temporarily, the task of guaranteed decommissioning, as it were, is not worth it ...
    Quote: Professor
    The task was completed. Here, many believe that the IDF tried to take Beirut, but the tasks assigned to the army were clearly voiced by Prime Minister Olmert at his speech in the Knesset.

    Can we talk about different wars? I mean, when the army rushed to pull out a couple of prisoners from captivity. They did not save them? The task, after all, was in this, and did not take a walk on the tank, until then they would come back. One was even killed, and it is unclear whether you are by chance, or by militants.
    1. Professor
      Professor 6 June 2013 10: 15 New
      +1
      1. Try to answer in the comment itself, and discover a new one is more readable.

      Quote: Russ69
      In all fairness, the locals have nothing new in principle. RPG-7, the subwoofer itself is not enough for the "Merkava", but there was damage. Yes, and the RPG created a tank to disable at least temporarily, the task of guaranteed decommissioning, as it were, is not worth it ...

      In fairness, Hezbollah was better armed than rebels in Syria. Hezbollah had both RPG-29 and Cornets.

      Quote: Russ69
      Can we talk about different wars? I mean, when the army rushed to pull out a couple of prisoners from captivity. They did not save them? The task, after all, was in this, and did not take a walk on the tank, until then they would come back. One was even killed, and it is unclear whether you are by chance, or by militants.

      We are talking about the same war. Her tasks were voiced if I am not mistaken on August 19, 2006. The rescue of the soldiers there was a point. The soldiers died during the capture and there was no question of any salvation, moreover, they died during the explosion and shelling of Hamer and certainly not from friendly fire.
      1. Kirgudum
        Kirgudum 6 June 2013 22: 07 New
        0
        By the way, rats in Syria also have anti-tank systems.
    2. Tourist Breakfast
      Tourist Breakfast 6 June 2013 10: 35 New
      +5
      Can we talk about different wars? I mean, when the army rushed to pull out a couple of prisoners from captivity. They did not save them? The task, after all, was in this, and did not take a walk on the tank, until then they would come back. One was even killed, and it is unclear whether you are by chance, or by militants.


      Not only. Along with the capture of prisoners, Hezbollah also launched rocket attacks on the north of the country.
      Accordingly, Tsakhal faced the task of securing a buffer zone in southern Lebanon to the Litani River and stopping rocket attacks.
      They coped with the first, not very much with the second.
      1. igor67
        igor67 6 June 2013 10: 42 New
        +3
        Quote: Tourist Breakfast
        Can we talk about different wars? I mean, when the army rushed to pull out a couple of prisoners from captivity. They did not save them? The task, after all, was in this, and did not take a walk on the tank, until then they would come back. One was even killed, and it is unclear whether you are by chance, or by militants.


        Not only. Along with the capture of prisoners, Hezbollah also launched rocket attacks on the north of the country.
        Accordingly, Tsakhal faced the task of securing a buffer zone in southern Lebanon to the Litani River and stopping rocket attacks.
        They coped with the first, not very much with the second.
        . But here oddities begin, the army went into the depths of Lebanon by 20 km, and they shot at us directly from the border areas, more precisely from the border, far from kibbutzim Baram and Yaron, my wife worked in Kibbutz Baram and shot how tanks suppressed firing points , and the main forces were already far away, so they fired rockets at us for a ceasefire, also a strange policy
      2. Gari
        Gari 6 June 2013 10: 56 New
        +2
        Quote: Tourist's Breakfast
        Accordingly, Tsakhal faced the task of securing a buffer zone in southern Lebanon to the Litani River and stopping rocket attacks.


        I saw shots of these shellings, it was not known where the rocket would fly - you won’t envy people, as innocent people always suffer
        1. igor67
          igor67 6 June 2013 11: 02 New
          +8
          That rocket hit the top floor, my shot
          1. Gari
            Gari 6 June 2013 11: 45 New
            +2
            A nightmare, and friends who live in Israel told
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 6 June 2013 12: 15 New
              +2
              This is not a nightmare, it is a consequence of the cowardice of Israeli politicians.
              1. Gari
                Gari 6 June 2013 12: 18 New
                +2
                Quote: Spade
                This is not a nightmare, it is a consequence of the cowardice of Israeli politicians.

                Politicians are the same everywhere, supranational breed
                but innocent people die
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 6 June 2013 12: 37 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Gari
                  Politicians are the same everywhere, supranational breed

                  Yah. They had one, Golda Meir. She said to do, answered for all the consequences. I respect you.
  • yanus
    yanus 6 June 2013 10: 40 New
    +2
    I have not read the comments, but I condemn the professor))
    He again rushes about between impenetrable carrots, shitty RPGs and suddenly the futility of tanks. Sadly ...
  • Vanek
    Vanek 6 June 2013 11: 53 New
    +2
    Quote: yanus
    I have not read the comments, but I condemn the professor))


    It is not worth it to condemn without thorough.

    Sadly ...
  • Eric
    Eric 6 June 2013 16: 19 New
    +1
    Quote: Pimply
    I don’t understand - people are being killed, planes are being shot down - and no one is going to cancel them. And then 25 tanks were destroyed in 100 days of the war, of which only five were irretrievably: hype.

    And how many tanks participated in the operation? It’s tanks!
    1. ATATA
      ATATA 6 June 2013 16: 23 New
      0
      Quote: Eric
      And how many tanks participated in the operation? It’s tanks!

      According to Wiki, there are 100 tanks.
      Those. 25-40% of the participating tanks were knocked out.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 6 June 2013 19: 07 New
        0
        Vicki is lying like a gray gelding. Links to one article by Klyuchnikov and not one to original sources - or at least to English.

        As part of the AOI ground forces in Lebanon during the Second Lebanon War, forces from 5 armored brigades (some of them are not in full force) operated - a total of about 400 tanks (more accurate figures are also given, for example, 370)
  • Eric
    Eric 6 June 2013 16: 30 New
    0
    Quote: ATATA
    According to Wiki, there are 100 tanks.
    Those. 25-40% of the participating tanks were knocked out.

    If Vicki is not lying, if the militants who fought against the IDF are irregular armed groups (clarification is required from Svidomo in the matter), then this is the success of the militants. And yes, if the pros with RPGs in their hands the losses would be big. And big losses, disruption and postponement of the timing of the operation. This is in confirmation of the thesis written above about the performance of a combat mission.
    1. ATATA
      ATATA 6 June 2013 16: 34 New
      +1
      Quote: Eric
      If Vicki is not lying, if the militants who fought against the IDF are irregular armed formations (clarification is required from Svidomo in the matter), then this is the success of the militants

      Yes sir. In confirmation of your words, a quote from Wiki about this conflict.
      On April 30, 2007, the interim results of the work of the commission of Eliyahu Vinograd, which studied the actions of the country's leadership during the Lebanese war, were published in Israel. All responsibility for campaign failures assigned to Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, Minister of Defense Amir Peretz and former Chief of General Staff of Israel Dan Halutz.

      I think the comments are redundant?
      Quote: Eric
      And big losses, disruption and postponement of the timing of the operation.

      So the operation did not achieve its goals. In fact, Israel accepted the enemy’s terms.
      In fact, Israel for the first time in its recent history received a military slap.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 6 June 2013 19: 17 New
        0
        The operation did not aim at the destruction of Hezbollah - which is unrealistic with 40% of the Shiite population in Lebanon, but its weakening and the cessation of rocket attacks on Israel. The shelling ceased.
    2. Pimply
      Pimply 6 June 2013 19: 15 New
      -2
      You roughly know what Hezbollah is? This, in fact, is an army that is quite regular, with reservists, annually receiving hundreds of millions of dollars in aid with money and weapons from Syria and Iran. Here you have the latest ATGMs, anti-ship missiles, and regular exercises. It is many times stronger than the official Lebanese army. Until 2006, the group constantly bombarded Israel, or rather, its northern border. After the war, the shelling FULLY ceased.
  • Eric
    Eric 6 June 2013 16: 37 New
    0
    Quote: Tourist's Breakfast
    Where does infa come from that it was RPG-29 that was used for sabzh? On most Hezbollah videos with Israeli tank defeats, judging by the distance, ATGMs are used.


    And LNG is worse at long distances, according to the participants in the database, it is a very accurate and formidable weapon!
    1. Tourist Breakfast
      Tourist Breakfast 6 June 2013 17: 58 New
      0
      And LNG is worse at long distances, according to the participants in the database, it is a very accurate and formidable weapon!


      But the comrade claims that it is the RPG-29. The same is said in the article. So I asked.
  • Eric
    Eric 6 June 2013 16: 42 New
    +2
    Quote: ATATA
    So the operation did not achieve its goals. In fact, Israel accepted the enemy’s terms.

    Well, the achievement of ultimate goals is not so interesting for us, because people spoke for "meat", that is, they were interested in losses. Well, the organizational staff of the militants - anyhow, that's understandable.
    With regards to tanks, the militants succeeded, of course, if the Jews did not create an operational reserve to replace the newly recruited fresh forces.
    In the end, I will add: ours in Grozny during the storming of houses, after the new year, proved to be excellent even without tanks, although the tactics straightened already at the curtain. Well, our honor and praise to the Rimbatians, but to more designers, for the indestructible armored vehicles!
  • nagi
    nagi 6 June 2013 16: 56 New
    0
    Quote: Pimply
    And on average, every 25th missile hit. For 100 days. 25 disabled tanks, most of which returned to battle.

    You write correctly about every 25 of the total number of shots. The question is different, why are you so disingenuous? Indeed, in general statistics it was indicated that of the total number of shots, the vast majority of shots were fired by either Chinese or Iranian RPGs of the first or 2 generations. You better see statistics on how many Russian-made missiles were fired and which hit the target.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 6 June 2013 19: 19 New
      -1
      Is there any? I think most of the missiles that hit the target and shot through were Russian, since it was the Russian ATGMs that were armed with Hezbollah. However, the RPG-29 is not particularly illuminated anywhere. Especially in this vein, as described in the article. About that and speech
  • Boricello
    Boricello 6 June 2013 16: 57 New
    +4
    Professor, you are an intelligent person. You yourself provide statistics. From all it follows that the Arabs as warriors are full of seams and smeared in white light like a pretty penny. Well, + professionalism waved. Because it is the pehtura that does not allow the Arabs to get close to the tanks for an accurate shot. They were beaten most likely from the maximum distance because they were scared to fight .. And so, without looking at luck, sticking out a grenade launcher, without aiming to shoot and run away ... This just speaks in favor of the Russian production. Now hypothetically imagine that in place of the Arabs there will be trained warriors who are competent and familiar with the tactics and theory of the use of RPGs. And tady will be a big oh. Even considering that for me a merkava tank is much better than abrashas, ​​but it also has no chance. See how many abrams burned RPG. Merkava would have been pretty much the same. No need to blame weapons. It is necessary to find fault with the gasket of this weapon. In karamultuki afghanistan rustled the soldiers. All this suggests that at this theater you simply do not have a really competent opponent both tactically and technically. Yes, and apparently they beat in the forehead (and this once again confirms the level of the Arab army). So do not blame the weapon, but it’s worth considering.
    1. igor67
      igor67 6 June 2013 17: 35 New
      +1
      [quote = Boricello] Professor, you are a smart person. You yourself provide statistics. From all it follows that the Arabs as warriors are full of seams and smeared in white light. BEALS if you look at the YouTube videos posted by Hezbollah, they shot only from the top, plus look carefully at the geography of the area, the mountains, even on the video I can see above the branch, the tanks are on a narrow mountain road, it was the mistake of the chief of staff, he then the pilot made a bet on aviation, for which they fired plus fraud on the exchange on the first day of the war
    2. Professor
      Professor 6 June 2013 20: 27 New
      0
      Quote: Boricello
      And so, without looking at luck, sticking out a grenade launcher, without aiming to shoot and run away ...

      Do not write what you do not know. Hezbollah is rebels in Syria. This Shiite organization is very well prepared by the guardians of the Islamic revolution, well armed (for example, Cornets) and fought at home in advance by preparing positions, bunkers, waste, etc.

      Quote: Boricello
      Merkava would have been pretty much the same.

      "would"

      Quote: Boricello
      Yes, and apparently they beat in the forehead (and this once again confirms the level of the Arab army). So do not blame the weapon, but it’s worth considering.

  • Russ69
    Russ69 6 June 2013 17: 11 New
    0
    Quote: ATATA
    The operation did not reach its goals. In fact, Israel accepted the conditions of the enemy. In fact, Israel for the first time in its recent history received a military slap

    To say that completely lost is also not right. Yet for some time, rocket attacks ceased.
    I remember after this war there was a lot of criticism of the Israeli leadership. Both political and military.
    1. ATATA
      ATATA 6 June 2013 17: 24 New
      0
      Quote: Russ69
      To say that completely lost is also not right.

      Not completely. Israel still exists, but the enemy’s conditions were fulfilled almost completely.
      1. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 6 June 2013 17: 41 New
        +2
        Quote: ATATA

        Not completely. Israel still exists, but the enemy’s conditions were fulfilled almost completely.

        And what are these conditions? That's the fact that Hizbala from August 2006 did not make a single shot towards Israel is a fact. And the fact that before that she constantly bombarded Israel is a fact. The heyday of tourism and mass construction in the Upper Galilee is a fact. And all the rest excuse the speculation.
        1. ATATA
          ATATA 6 June 2013 18: 36 New
          -2
          Quote: Aron Zaavi
          And what are these conditions?

          I understand you...
          The indelible disgrace of defeat crushes ...
          Well, how can I help you? ...
          You all know without me ...
          Bye laughing
          1. Aaron Zawi
            Aaron Zawi 6 June 2013 18: 44 New
            -1
            Quote: ATATA
            Quote: Aron Zaavi
            And what are these conditions?

            I understand you...
            The indelible disgrace of defeat crushes ...
            Well, how can I help you? ...
            You all know without me ...
            Bye laughing

            Understood nothing. request
            1. ATATA
              ATATA 6 June 2013 19: 50 New
              0
              Quote: Aron Zaavi
              Understood nothing.

              Children of David, you are overwhelmed.
              Read the available links on the Internet, and do not sculpt cons into a dumb one.
              Although I do not care.
              You all understand.
              Israel, this is the Kingdom of Erusalim V2.0
              And the end will be the same.
              Shalom! hi
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 6 June 2013 20: 01 New
                +1
                I doubt that Aron did it. And not me.
                1. ATATA
                  ATATA 6 June 2013 20: 15 New
                  0
                  We drove through.
                  What do you say on the merits.
                  1. Pimply
                    Pimply 6 June 2013 21: 34 New
                    -1
                    Yes, I, in my opinion, said everything. The pompous phrase from the article is nonsense.
      2. Professor
        Professor 6 June 2013 20: 30 New
        +1
        Quote: ATATA
        Not completely. Israel still exists, but the enemy’s conditions were fulfilled almost completely.

        Sound please these conditions. I'm very interested. Do not forget to mention the condition of Nasrallah to remain in the bunker for 7 years. wink
        1. ATATA
          ATATA 6 June 2013 21: 16 New
          0
          I will announce the terms of the truce.
          On July 16, 2008, Israel and Hezbollah exchanged the bodies of abducted soldiers (Ehud Goldwasser (Russian) Russian and Eldad Regev (English) Russian), for 190 bodies and 5 living terrorists (including Samir Kuntar). [ 16] [17]

          Well, how?
          1. Professor
            Professor 6 June 2013 22: 58 New
            0
            Quote: ATATA
            Well, how?

            no way, one corporal was exchanged for 1027 living terrorists, Nasrallah was cheap. nevertheless, what about the goals of the war voiced by the prime minister? How about the terms of the armistice in accordance with the UN resolution? In what hole is the "winner" Nasrallah hiding? Can you handle it yourself or arrange an educational program? wink
  • tixon444
    tixon444 6 June 2013 17: 39 New
    +2
    Probably not many people know that the RPG-7 has a rifle barrel in the main barrel for firing single 7,62mm rounds. This is so that when the shotgun was running out of shotgun, he could use him as a rifle. I had to shoot him, but it was difficult to hit the target.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi 6 June 2013 18: 51 New
    -1
    In the IDF, since the early 2000s, there has been a final division of tasks between RPGs and ATGMs. RPGs are imprisoned against buildings, and ATGMs against armored vehicles. Under this was the development of the RPG "MATADOR", which has now saturated the infantry and engineering units of the IDF. Although charges against armored vehicles have been developed for it, Israeli units do not order them.
  • Roman_999
    Roman_999 6 June 2013 20: 23 New
    +1
    Quote: Seraphim
    bloody clique of world Zionism!

    Juicy combination, concentrated!
  • Eric
    Eric 6 June 2013 21: 14 New
    0
    Quote: Pimply
    anti-ship missiles

    Oh, what are you, right? Not a single sunken ship in Israel ... Ay-yai-yay!
    1. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 6 June 2013 21: 25 New
      -1
      Quote: Eric
      Quote: Pimply
      anti-ship missiles

      Oh, what are you, right? Not a single sunken ship in Israel ... Ay-yai-yay!

      If this pleases you, the corvette "Ahi Hanit" was shot down. Let and according to the section @@ of the crew. They were still lucky. The missile hit the helicopter hangar. Four sailors were killed and the corvette was repaired for six months.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 6 June 2013 21: 33 New
        -1
        To the crane, not to the hangar. There was a combination of circumstances - the failure of the system, which they urgently undertook to repair, and the same foolishness of the ship's commander, who did not take into account some intelligence. The result - 4 dead sailors.
  • Eric
    Eric 6 June 2013 21: 52 New
    +1
    If this pleases you, then the corvette "Ahi Hanit" was shot down.
    Hmm, distance? And the type of rocket? The country manufacturer can not say, it is clear that Iran.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 6 June 2013 22: 11 New
      +1
      "On the evening of 14.07.06/802/802, Hezbollah released two C-82 anti-ship missiles transferred to it by Iran (C-82 is the export designation of the Chinese anti-ship missile YJ-8, aka Yingji-20; NATO is known as CSS-C-42 Saccade, in Iran - Noor) The targets were Israeli ships blockading the Lebanese coast. Missile targeting was carried out by the Lebanese Navy radar. At about 5:85 one of the missiles hit the Hanit missile corvette (Saar-16 type) with 15.07.06 crew on board. located XNUMX kilometers from Beirut (the electronic warfare and air defense systems of the corvette were turned off). The blow fell on the stern, in the area of ​​the helipad. A fire broke out on the Hanit, but the crew managed to localize the fire and prevent the ship from sinking. By the morning of XNUMX, Hanit ”Arrived in Haifa on his own and then continued on his way to Ashdod.

      As a result of a rocket hit and a fire that occurred on the ship, 4 people died: Senior Sergeant Yaniv Gershkovich and Sergeant Shai Atias (both from the Navy intelligence), Senior Sergeant Tal Amgar (communications technician, Air Force) and Warrant Officer (RASAB) Dov Sterenshus (flight mechanic, Air Force) . The helicopter AS565SA of the 193 Squadron Magenei Ha-Maarav, which was on board the corvette, was damaged.

      The purpose of the second missile was the Romakh missile boat (type Saar-4.5). The electronic warfare systems of the boat were working properly, the anti-ship missile went off to the side and hit a merchant Cambodian ship 60 km from the coast. The ship sank, the crew (12 people, Egyptians), picked up passing ships.

      In response to the assistance provided by the Lebanese army of Hezbollah, the Israeli Navy destroyed Lebanese naval radars, for example at the base of Al-Abd and in Tripoli.

      Subsequently, Hezbollah stated several times (for example, 31.07.06, 11.08.06) about the defeat of Israeli battle boats, but all these messages turned out to be false.

      Corvette "Hanit" returned to service on 06.08.06/02.08.06/40, after completion of repairs on XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX at the Ashdod naval base. The damage to the ship is estimated at $ XNUMX million. "
      / From the article by Oleg Granovsky "Statistics of the Second Lebanon War" /






      1. Eric
        Eric 6 June 2013 22: 39 New
        0
        Thanks for the educational program!
        1. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi 6 June 2013 23: 43 New
          0
          Quote: Eric
          Thanks for the educational program!

          Yes always please. But when people living many thousands of kilometers from BV begin to argue with us about matters that they were not even seriously interested in, it takes evil.
          Well, why people do not read any literature before arguing?
  • Letterksi
    Letterksi 6 June 2013 22: 09 New
    0
    The power of the RPG-32 will soon see firsthand in Syria, when the rebels will water the Syrian T-72 from them. Like RPG-29 (Vampire), most likely, they will only be in the hands of the rebels and other rabble in the Syrian conflict. Russian industry and scientific thought is arming anyone, but not its own troops
    Judging by the plots of Marat Musin running under bullets in Syria, Syrian T-72s regularly bring pieces of RPG-7 grenades from the battle on their armor. But pieces of RPG-29 grenades are no longer brought, because the T-72 armor "does not hold" these grenades, and when hit, the tank dies
    1. ATATA
      ATATA 6 June 2013 22: 21 New
      -2
      Catch a grenade! laughing
    2. ramzes1776
      ramzes1776 6 June 2013 23: 11 New
      +2
      Quote: LetterKsi
      The only army that did not need the unique RPG-29 grenade launcher was the Russian Armed Forces. This sample has not been ordered by the Russian army for more than 15 years.

      And we still have RPG-7 and RPG-18 "Fly" in service in our troops, plus ATGMs "Fagot" and "Metis" and shots for them are by no means tandem.
  • shinobi
    shinobi 7 June 2013 06: 54 New
    +1
    How good our borders are worth looking at in reports on orders, and not in propaganda videos. And since the defense industry complex of ours never shows these data in the public domain, just as the west never talks about its real losses, the truth can only be judged by Example: An official explanation of the recent Israeli air raid on Syria to prevent Hezbollah from hitting modern weapons. And what kind of modern weapons does Hezbollah usually use? Grenade launchers, mortars, unguided missile weapons, and small arms. armored vehicles, that neither soldier is a rambo + terminator in one bottle, why is there such a fuss with preventive strikes? And since the Russian weapons are in their bulk, we conclude that they are not all as cool as stated. And our weapons are not bad as they want.
  • Penek
    Penek 7 June 2013 23: 49 New
    0
    He studied with Sasha Rybas on the same course and later had to intersect - for all his positive qualities, leadership was not his path (KBM, to Basalt, an example). Like a classmate of Dudka, leadership of the Tula province.
  • high
    high 8 June 2013 20: 51 New
    0
    The title of the article ,, Our grenade launchers nullified world achievements in the field of protection of armored vehicles! ,, - Does not correspond to reality ....
    In recent years, the Merkava-4 tank was the first in tank construction to have the Trophy active defense system, which is designed to protect the tank from anti-tank guided missiles and anti-tank grenade launchers.
    The operation mode of the complex is automatic and radar tracking of targets. Protected sector 360 degrees.
    Four radar stations located around the perimeter of the tower continuously emit electromagnetic waves into the nearby space.
    At a distance of several tens of meters, the radar detects an attacking anti-tank ammunition and issues a command to destroy it with the Trophy active defense complex.
    The Merkava 4 tank demonstrated an active defense system during a combat training in 2011. and experts are confident that the tank is not vulnerable today.
  • Hauptam
    Hauptam 10 June 2013 23: 38 New
    +1
    RPG is a unique weapon, the ratio of price and quality (combat effectiveness) has no analogues, all defenses will work only against one grenade in polygon conditions, and when each fighter uses RPGs, think for yourself. In Afghanistan, RPG shooting is a national sport, but RPG can be used not only in armored vehicles, if you expand the range of ammunition, then in general in combat you can perform a complex of tasks. Example RPG 32 Hashim.
  • Inok_10
    Inok_10 9 July 2013 00: 57 New
    -1
    ... Pimply Toad, Sour Shchey scholarship holder and a couple of three boys from the Choir .. calm down .. everyone just laughs at you .. :) :) .. no one takes you seriously, cheap trolls, in every topic "like in a barrel plugs ".. :) .. RPG Weapons! .. and, your merkava .. metal .. :) :)