Military Review

Ukrainian army will be a contract?

63



The Ukrainian Ministry of Defense refused the call, citing the fact that, starting from 2014, the Ukrainian army will move to a contract basis. The last call will be held this fall.

It should be noted that the wound repeatedly spread information in a number of media that the transition of the Ukrainian army to a contract basis would be postponed until the 2017 year. However, the other day, representatives of the defense department officially denied such rumors. According to the press service of the Ministry, the last recruits will go to serve this fall and will be demobilized already in 2014. The very next year, the defense of the Motherland will cease to be the responsibility of every Ukrainian youth who has reached the age of majority. This honorable duty will be fully assigned to professionals.

During the formation of the Ukrainian armed forces and in the framework of the transition of the army to the contract, doubts repeatedly arose. And this is not surprising, because the implementation of a comprehensive state program for the development and reform of the armed forces of Ukraine, calculated up to 2017, requires huge amounts of money - 16 billion dollars or about 131 billion hryvnia. This considerable money, to put it mildly, is supposed to be found through the sale of military property that is not currently in use. According to the Minister of War, P. Lebedev, the list of such “unwanted” property includes about two hundred military camps.

Also, according to the minister, the Ukrainian army will have big tasks. In addition to revising the structure and management system of the army and improving the system for training military specialists, great attention is expected to be paid to accomplishing the tasks of equipping troops with new and modern weapons and equipment, participation of the Ukrainian military in international peacekeeping operations, and intensifying combat training of personnel.

However, such bright prospects raise great doubts among experts, representatives of the Ministry of Finance, as well as the General Staff, whose deputy chief, I. Kabanenko, stated that it would be possible to fully transfer the army to a contract basis only by 2017 year.

Despite the squall of criticism, the head of state V. Yanukovych still endorsed the state program for the reform and development of the national army. According to this program, over the next five years, a substantial reduction of the army is expected (from 184 thousand troops to 122 thousand). In this case, the order will be sent about 40 percent of colonels and about 30 percent of generals. The only ones whom the reduction will not affect are combat units and certain types of troops, in particular, naval forces and airborne troops, because by now they are already almost 90 percent staffed with contract servicemen. Thus, according to the statement of Minister Lebedev, the number of military personnel who will be in a state of constant combat readiness will remain at the level of 70 thousand people, and under the reduction will be those who are not directly related to ensuring combat capability, in particular, military doctors, teachers, builders.

It is also assumed that the funds that will appear after the reduction of the armed forces will be spent on the procurement of new weapons, providing social guarantees for military servicemen who have resigned, as well as on carrying out ideological training. So, for example, since the spring of 2013, the discipline called “military ideological training” has taken its place among the full-fledged training items of the Ukrainian soldier. It includes not only history Ukrainian army, information about the traditions of the Ukrainian army, but also contains the basics of state and law.

According to the state program, the salaries of contract servicemen will gradually increase. Note that at present, the income of the military leaves much to be desired.

Recall, however, that the application for the transition to a contract army does not mean that this transition will take place. We hear similar statements for almost two decades. Back in the period when V. Yushchenko came to power, that is, in the 2005 year, the concrete terms of the transition of the armed forces to the contract began to be called. Yushchenko himself promised to make this transition before 2010, V. Yanukovych - he promised to do the same before 2011, then both 2014 and 2017 were repeatedly called.

Such inconsistency in terms is explained very, very simply. The fact is that all of them are unreal in practice. Back in 2008-2010, a Defense Review was conducted in the country, in other words, an inventory of the problems and opportunities of the Ukrainian army. Previously, something similar was done in 2003-2004. Then, on the basis of the data obtained, the so-called White Book was published (that is, the Defense Strategic Bulletin of Ukraine before the 2015 of the year). According to the results of the 2008-2010 review, a newsletter was also to be issued. However, the Blue Book (Strategic Bulletin before 2025 of the Year), which is designed to contain specific management decisions on the transition of the army to a contractual basis, has not only been not approved until now, but has not even been written.

In December 2011, the main provisions of the bulletin were officially published by the military department, however, the authors of this document themselves say that a full transition to a hired army is possible only by 2025, apparently, bearing in mind that this is too long, to seriously think about whether there will be a professional contract army in Ukraine by then or not.

Officially, the main obstacles in the process of creating a professional army in Ukraine are insufficient funding and the problem of housing. Thus, if necessary, the military department asks for money for its needs, supporting it with statements about the need to move to a contractual basis as soon as possible. But one serious question is missing from the attention: does the Ukrainian state need contractual armed forces in general? With what weapons will they fight?

If we talk about the Ukrainian version, it should be noted that initially the government, together with the military department, incorrectly approached the issue of recruiting the army, because instead of trying to recruit the armed forces with highly motivated and highly professional personnel, it tries to ensure the transition to a contract basis without increasing financial resources allocated to the needs of the army. Moreover, for some reason, it is erroneously assumed that the contract is always of free will, and the call is under duress. In fact, this is not quite the case. The voluntary appeal should be supported by the prospect of entering a state university on a budgetary basis, since the army itself must provide military personnel with a quality education. Equally important is the socio-economic situation of some regions of the country. It must be borne in mind that in certain regions of Ukraine for young men to join the army is a great success, because it gives them the opportunity to get a certain profession and eat normally. In practice, this is what happens: for some reason, the military registration and enlistment offices drag those who absolutely don’t want to serve there, but refuse to those who are absolutely fit for health reasons, but either have a stormy life or insufficient education.

In addition to this, unfortunately, the state cannot afford to pay cash support to soldiers at the level of at least five hundred dollars (at the moment, even officers do not receive this amount). Therefore, there is no point in relying on the financial side of the reform.

Another important reform issue is rearmament. Lebedev, taking the post of minister, received from his predecessors, several basic programs for supplying the army with new weapons and equipment, in particular, the Sapsan missile system, the An-70 medium-range military transport and the Oplot-M battle tank T-XNUMHUM , corvette "Vladimir the Great", project 84. In addition, there are several programs for upgrading the MiG-58250, Mi-29, Mi-2, Mi-9, Mi-8 helicopters, training aircraft L-24, BMP-39. It makes no sense to mention the financing of these programs in this article, because it’s impossible to understand in a few words the scale of funding priorities.

The process of rearmament, by the way, does not depend on the transition to a contract. Of all types of weapons, only intended for mass use by soldiers Tanks and an infantry machine, so there is no need to recruit contractors to master them. If we talk about the other types of equipment, then back in Soviet times, almost all of them were serviced by officers.

And finally, some experts say that the term of service directly affects the level of combat training of soldiers. But, if you think about it, in this situation, you need to think not about contract recruitment (who, by the way, are also incompetent in matters of combat training, like recruits), but seek professional training of fighters as soon as possible. To this end, it is possible to increase the service life in the army, and it is possible to reduce the time that soldiers spend on many hours of cleaning the territories, self-training without the necessary knowledge. The free time is enough to greatly increase the level of combat training.

Materials used:
http://www.rg.ru/2013/06/02/ykraina-site.html
http://politika.eizvestia.com/full/kontraktnoj-armii-ne-budet
http://www.union-report.ru/topnews/ukrainskaya-armiya-otkazalas-ot-prizyva
http://axl-kolishevsky.livejournal.com/24225.html
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  1. Grigorich 1962
    Grigorich 1962 6 June 2013 08: 37
    -4
    And what Ukraine has an army ?? ... maybe they have a fleet ...... good news if so. We must be curious about what this army can do and what it has in service. It’s also good to know who she’s learning to keep on the fly. and here’s what’s interesting .... what OH, this army adopts the traditions of the past. Wait and see.
    1. Corsair
      Corsair 6 June 2013 10: 32
      +5
      Quote: Grigorich 1962
      And what Ukraine has an army ?? ... maybe they have a fleet ...... good news if so.

      It would be good for Ukraine to raise its ZS and Navy at least to the level of Romania (no matter how humiliating it sounds, but it is), not to mention the Polish army with its FAST MUCH superior military budget ...
      1. Akim
        Akim 6 June 2013 10: 39
        13
        Quote: Corsair
        It would be good for Ukraine to raise its AP and Navy at least to the level of Romania

        The Navy agrees. And that’s all.
        Poland is better in material support, but this does not mean that the training of the Ukrainian military is worse. In joint exercises, this is evident.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Corsair
          Corsair 6 June 2013 11: 18
          +6
          Quote: Akim
          The Navy agrees. And that’s all.
          Poland is better in material support, but this does not mean that the training of the Ukrainian military is worse. In joint exercises, this is evident.

          The exercises show the combat readiness and combat training of the SEPARATE units (also notified in advance and prepared for the mission), but we are talking about the GLOBAL ability of the Ukrainian Armed Forces (the Navy already seems to have become clear request ) repel a large-scale invasion of a likely enemy. Or do you think that Romania with its territorial claims against Ukraine will stand on ceremony with you? Yes, and Poland, if you have such an opportunity, will not miss it (remember the Czech Republic’s dériban by Polish forces, together with fascist Germany).
          Everything is fixable, but for this Ukraine needs to turn to face its army, which is not yet observed, even the trend is not visible.
          Political hype and outright show off around the army, while
          1. Akim
            Akim 6 June 2013 11: 26
            +6
            Quote: Corsair
            The exercises show the combat readiness and combat training of the SEPARATE units (in addition, ADVANCED and prepared for the mission

            You think the other way is not the same? On Shirlan, a French officer admitted to my classmate that they had been intensively chased (namely chased) before training, so as not to face their faces in the mud. That everywhere is such a specificity.
          2. _Forgiven_
            _Forgiven_ 6 June 2013 14: 42
            +5
            Honestly, I generally doubt that such an army reform will happen. They stomp on the spot and that’s it. To accomplish all this, you need a dofig of money, but they are not in the treasury - they are already on the offshore of our politicians on the islands. And in general, with each new reform in our country there are several millionaires more. I wonder if they will ever eat enough Maybe it's time to give a simple person to live?
        3. Orty
          Orty 6 June 2013 19: 05
          +3
          Better, Psheks do not spare money on their warriors, so their preparation and technical equipment are better than Svidomo’s. And Ukraine should be ashamed of this, since it should be the other way around in terms of industrial and scientific potential. In addition, the Poles are fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, i.e. a significant portion of their officers and sergeants have combat experience. The Urains did not have this either, if tomorrow the war between Ukraine and Poland took place, bash on bash, the Poles would have won.
          1. Karlsonn
            Karlsonn 6 June 2013 19: 35
            +3
            Quote: Orty
            In addition, the Poles are fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, i.e. a significant portion of their officers and sergeants have combat experience. The Urains do not have this either


            Orty

            Comrade, you may not be aware, but the Ukrainian contingent in Iraq is composed of:
            - 5-I separate mechanized brigade;
            - 6-I separate mechanized brigade;
            - 7-I separate mechanized brigade;
            - 81-I tactical group of the Armed forces of Ukraine;
            was over two years old. Iraq passed more than 5 000 Ukrainians, 18 died, over 40 people were injured.

            The prosecutor's office of Ukraine revealed a shortage of weapons, ammunition, equipment and property of approximately 2 million dollars, but this is another story.

            No need to wave your saber so hotly hi .
            If interested, I will give a link to the story of the participant in the events.
            1. Orty
              Orty 6 June 2013 21: 42
              0
              I read the memories of one participant. The Ukrainians sent a contingent, sort of like peacekeepers (which is wild insanity), according to his recollections, they didn’t get involved in anything and didn’t fight with anyone, but they were sitting at the bases and yanking Coca-Cola from the Yankees and everything that’s bad. And the rest of the party participants spoke about them only obscenely, especially the Poles, whom, according to the recollections of that lad, they did not help at the right time. So I don’t chop with a saber, but I soberly assess that they fought and gained there. 0. At that time, the Poles proved to be very good, especially the THUNDER. I don’t like Psheks, but in the Poland-Ukraine conflict I would bet on them.
              1. Akim
                Akim 6 June 2013 21: 59
                +1
                Quote: Orty
                according to his recollections, they didn’t get involved in anything and didn’t fight with anyone, but they were sitting at the bases and were yanking Coca-Cola from the Yankees

                I would like to send you along with this "participant" of the memories. I personally know many who were there. The most expensive thing that one of them smuggled here was a 19th century saber. And I bought it on the cheap - for $ 20. Served and patrolled honestly. They weren't in the American sector at all - what the fuck is a war? Not enough adrenaline? Come to Donetsk - walk around the mining village in the evening. Enough for a long time (if doctors can collect).
                1. Corsair
                  Corsair 6 June 2013 22: 44
                  +1
                  Quote: Akim
                  Come to Donetsk - walk in the evening in the mining village. Enough for a long time (if doctors can collect).

                  Again about the Donetsk bandits? Oskomin is already full, Your Supreme is Enakievsky himself and with a rather entertaining history.
                  No need for the Donbass in this context.
                  1. Akim
                    Akim 6 June 2013 22: 51
                    +1
                    Quote: Corsair
                    No need for the Donbass in this context.

                    This is not with mockery, but with pride. This is my small homeland and there you need to know in which direction you can write so that the fence does not cover.
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                    2. The comment was deleted.
                      1. Akim
                        Akim 6 June 2013 23: 34
                        0
                        Quote: Corsair
                        And you?

                        Donetsk itself. His almamater is Aleksandrovka / Larinka.
                2. Orty
                  Orty 7 June 2013 08: 27
                  0
                  I don’t even understand what does adrenaline have to do with it? And about your acquaintances, well, there is a saying "it is beautiful not to lie, the story is not to tell" and the war, according to you, went only in the Yankee sector and nowhere else? In Iraq, hell and ass was a war of all against all, then they came there under the guise of peacekeepers, although in fact they were an ally of one of the parties to the conflict. A 20 bucks saber? Hmm, it would be something to be proud of if they lowered the country below the baseboard so that the locals sell everything for a penny out of despair. Heroes bl ..
              2. Karlsonn
                Karlsonn 6 June 2013 22: 01
                +2
                Quote: Orty
                according to his memoirs, they didn’t get involved in anything and didn’t fight with anyone, but they were sitting at the bases and were yanking Coca-Cola at the Yankees and everything that lies badly.


                this is not true.

                Quote: Orty
                especially the Poles to whom, according to the recollections of that lad, they did not help at the right moment.


                there was such an episode.


                Quote: Orty
                I don’t like Psheks, but in the Poland-Ukraine conflict I would bet on them.


                in vain No.
    2. Interface
      Interface 6 June 2013 12: 45
      -5
      which ONES, this army adopts the traditions of the past. Wait and see.


      With a Cossack saber against tanks good
      Well, sooo in Ukrainian ... laughing
  2. apro
    apro 6 June 2013 08: 37
    +1
    Well, the flag is in their hands. I hope in Russia they will not follow in their footsteps.
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 6 June 2013 10: 07
      +4
      Quote: apro
      I hope that Russia will not follow in their footsteps.

      It turns out the opposite, Ukraine goes on Serdyukovsky paths:
      "and those who are not directly related to ensuring combat effectiveness, in particular, military doctors, teachers, builders, will be reduced."
  3. Nesvet Nezar
    Nesvet Nezar 6 June 2013 08: 41
    -6
    Ukraine is part of Russia. Ukrainians - Russians living in Ukraine!
    1. agbykov
      agbykov 6 June 2013 12: 15
      11
      It would be more correct to say: Russia, Ukraine and Belarus are parts of a united Russia.
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 6 June 2013 12: 23
        +3
        Quote: agbykov
        It would be more correct to say: Russia, Ukraine and Belarus are parts of a united Russia.

        + Kazakhstan.
        1. Abakanets
          Abakanets 6 June 2013 14: 02
          +3
          With what fright did Kazakhstan become part of Russia?
        2. Estrendor
          Estrendor 6 June 2013 14: 54
          +5
          With all my sincere love for Kazakhstan in general and the Kazakhs in particular, they are not part of Russian culture. They are the most faithful ally of the Russians. Like the Tatars and Siberians (though the Siberians are already gone.)
          1. Setrac
            Setrac 8 June 2013 19: 33
            0
            Quote: Estrendor
            With all my sincere love for Kazakhstan in general and the Kazakhs in particular, they are not part of Russian culture. They are the most faithful ally of the Russians. Like the Tatars and Siberians (though the Siberians are already gone.)

            Just like the Tatars? Buryats, Bashkirs, Udmurts, damn all you will not list! You're not right.
      2. Nesvet Nezar
        Nesvet Nezar 7 June 2013 12: 48
        0
        Quote: agbykov
        It would be more correct to say: Russia, Ukraine and Belarus are parts of a united Russia.


        Correctly exactly as I wrote. Belarus and Little Russia part of Russia!
  4. svp67
    svp67 6 June 2013 08: 45
    +4
    Ukraine, with the current size of the army, does not experience a shortage of conscripts, since only serving in the army gives many young people an opportunity to get an "impetus" for a career in civilian life. But how will things go when you switch to a contract? Success will be achieved only if "above average" conditions are created for the "contractors" ...
    1. RoTTor
      RoTTor 8 June 2013 23: 47
      0
      Those who are in the army are looked at as if they were finished losers.
  5. Makarov
    Makarov 6 June 2013 08: 57
    +3
    darkness ... no army, no fleet, no planes, no missiles fly anywhere ... army is a sight for sore eyes (unprintable very rude expression) ....
    1. omsbon
      omsbon 6 June 2013 09: 29
      +9
      Quote: Makarov
      darkness ... no army, no fleet, no planes, no missiles fly anywhere ... army is a sight for sore eyes (unprintable very rude expression) ....

      It’s time to end the foolishness to toil, join the TS, and then unite and then no one is afraid of us!
      1. Hudo
        Hudo 6 June 2013 09: 40
        +2
        I apologize, dear omsbon, for the accidentally placed "minus". I just missed it with my mouse.
        1. omsbon
          omsbon 6 June 2013 09: 56
          +3
          Quote: Hudo
          I apologize, dear omsbon, for the accidentally placed "minus". I just missed it with my mouse.

          Gleb, minus this is nonsense, the main thing is that we have the same view on the problem. hi
    2. Corsair
      Corsair 6 June 2013 10: 42
      +6
      Quote: Makarov
      darkness ... no army, no fleet, no planes, no missiles fly anywhere ... army is a sight for sore eyes (unprintable very rude expression) ....

      There is still gunpowder in the flasks ...
      She didn’t get angry ...
      1. svp67
        svp67 6 June 2013 12: 30
        +3
        Quote: Corsair
        She didn’t get angry ...



        This is about Poland. And Ukraine "has not died yet ..."
      2. Rider
        Rider 6 June 2013 18: 43
        0
        Quote: Corsair
        She didn’t get angry ...


        clear, interestingly in real life such a suit, or photoshop 7

        laughing
        1. Akim
          Akim 6 June 2013 18: 53
          +5
          Quote: Rider
          this is in real life such a suit, or photoshop

          This is not Photoshop. June 1st. Stormtroopers clean Odessa after a hurricane. Odessa is always Odessa!
    3. Corsair
      Corsair 6 June 2013 10: 48
      12
      Quote: Makarov
      darkness ... no army, no fleet, no planes, no missiles fly anywhere ... army is a sight for sore eyes (unprintable very rude expression) ....

      The image has already been published in ANOTHER section, but I think it fits your comment almost perfectly wink
      1. Makarov
        Makarov 6 June 2013 17: 07
        +2
        - Where is the plane?
        - Creeped ... Comrade Colonel ....
        - Write off on the article "mouse" ...

        something like this)
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. seller trucks
      seller trucks 6 June 2013 11: 58
      0
      Quote: Makarov
      rockets fly anywhere ...


      don’t think up, they fly where necessary, on planes with Jews, Tyagnibok’s opinion is appreciated in air defense
      1. Makarov
        Makarov 6 June 2013 17: 05
        +2
        Then there were no Tyagniboks on the horizon ... I was more struck by the traces of stabilizers in the broken roof and the comment "... this is a gas explosion" .... it was a curtain ... in any case, I thought so then ...
        1. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 6 June 2013 19: 37
          -1
          Quote: Makarov
          I was more struck by the traces of the stabilizers in the broken roof and the comment "... this is a gas explosion" .... it was a curtain ... at least I thought so then ...


          my brother rented an apartment nearby recourse
          1. Makarov
            Makarov 6 June 2013 20: 16
            -1
            cool guys protect the population .... was telling something unusual?)
            1. Karlsonn
              Karlsonn 6 June 2013 22: 10
              0
              Quote: Makarov
              cool guys protect the population .... was telling something unusual?)


              somehow arrived with square eyes (his daughter was very small at that time) and he actually told me, info later passed, it was very lucky that almost the whole house was at work and there was no reception day in the passport office, so there would be victims there was much more.
              1. Makarov
                Makarov 8 June 2013 00: 34
                0
                hmm ... tin then I stopped completely believing all officials of Ukraine ....
        2. Corsair
          Corsair 6 June 2013 23: 36
          +2
          Quote: Makarov
          Then there were no Tyagniboks on the horizon.

          Tyagniboks in one form or another in Ukraine have always been, not to the end uprooted IV Stalin ...
          1. Makarov
            Makarov 8 June 2013 00: 33
            0
            Well, I'm not talking about his image and not figuratively ... my grandfather, after he was released from the concentration camp, studied in Lviv ... told how he saw a case when a Komsomol member, Bendera men were thrown out of the tram at full speed ... so that I have no illusions about this.
      2. RoTTor
        RoTTor 8 June 2013 23: 54
        0
        But what, Brovary, a 10-minute drive from Kiev, where they flashed a rocket, is Israeli territory already?
  6. Karlsonn
    Karlsonn 6 June 2013 09: 25
    +6
    This is called the collapse of statehood.

    ... "military-ideological training" took its place among the full-fledged training items of the Ukrainian soldier. It includes not only the history of the Ukrainian army, information about the traditions of the Ukrainian army, but also contains the foundations of the state and law ...

    Aha wink while children in schools and soldiers in barracks are being rubbed in like hetman Ivan Vygovsky, under the command of a Pole and Tatars, forced the Russian army of Prince Trubetskoy to lift the siege of Konotop, presenting it as a sort of "Waterloo", and deputies in the Rada are calling for the adoption of a draft resolution on the allocation of funds for the celebration 12 June 354th anniversary of the Battle of Konotop, the most important institutions of the state are systematically destroyed.
    But really, why would the "temporary workers" need a strong army and navy this is one of the threats to their power.
    So nothing is new under the moon.

  7. Ragnarek
    Ragnarek 6 June 2013 10: 04
    +2
    and what kind of cones?
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 6 June 2013 11: 11
      +3
      Quote: Ragnarek
      and what kind of cones?


      Ragnarek hi

      At the celebration of the BIG, VICTORY over the damned mos .... we are penniless for always knowing, well, pennies are not for the army, but for booze.
  8. ed1968
    ed1968 6 June 2013 10: 16
    0
    someday Russia will also switch to a fully contracted army, our army should consist entirely of professionals. at the same time, introduce the subject of combat training to schools so that every young man or girl knows how to own weapons and provide medical assistance to survive in the wild conduct different fighting styles up to partisan and what happened to get into operation to replace the fallen contract soldiers
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 6 June 2013 11: 20
      +6
      Quote: ed1968
      someday Russia will also switch to a fully contracted army, our army should consist entirely of professionals


      What for?


      Quote: ed1968
      at the same time, to introduce the subject of combat training to schools so that every child or girl knows how to use weapons and provide medical assistance to survive in the wild


      I agree, the right thing good





      Quote: ed1968
      and if something happens to get into operation to replace the fallen contractors


      NVP will never replace planned training, in the best case, the past NVP will be a militia - an irregular fighter, and poorly trained, as you can see, he will be able to replace a professional soldier-contractor ---- I have little idea request , let’s say a soldier, a motorized infantry can stretch it at a stretch (and then it will have to be planted in position and poked a finger at where to shoot), but a signalman? gunner?
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 6 June 2013 11: 33
        +7
        Quote: Karlsonn
        well let’s say a soldier can

        A normal motorized rifle without any stretch is impossible.
        Enough, damn it, the motorized infantry is so dismissive. They are the basis. Everyone else supports them.

        Quote: Karlsonn
        gunner?

        Can. In self-propelled, loaders from the ground, 2 people per gun. In towed and even more. There, only the commander, gunner and tractor driver need long preparation. The rest can be trained in a week.
        Another thing is that in the event of a collision with the enemy infantry somewhere on the fire, or on the march, these calculation numbers will be useless - yes.


        Welcome.
        1. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 6 June 2013 12: 39
          +3
          Lopatov hi

          Welcome.

          Quote: Spade
          A normal motorized rifle without any stretch is impossible.


          I agree, I did not speak correctly repeat .


          Quote: Spade
          Can. In a self-propelled - loader from the ground, 2 person on the gun. In towed and even more.


          in the sense of push-push what ? Well, here I agree - enough shells to carry NVP.

          comrade, you understand what I mean winked .
  9. patrianostra
    patrianostra 6 June 2013 10: 43
    15
    In Nenka Ukraine, a contract army is not even funny who will serve in it. As the military-folk wisdom says, "to serve, I would be glad to serve sickeningly," I write from personal experience in this army, the colonel is a uniform and not a military rank. hi
    1. Akim
      Akim 6 June 2013 10: 52
      10
      Quote: patrianostra
      This army colonel is a uniform and not a military rank.

      I support here. An American told me a long time ago: Oh, you are the Second Lieutenant, and I'm just the Chief Sergeant. He would have known that we had starlier - no one!
      1. Gato
        Gato 6 June 2013 11: 20
        +4
        Their second l-t corresponds to our lieutenant, who, judging by the money content, is even less than no one.
        What can we say about lieutenants, even if it’s impossible to live on a colonel’s salary (we’re not talking about colonels-colonels: they don’t live on a salary)
        1. Akim
          Akim 6 June 2013 11: 32
          +1
          Quote: Gato
          Their second l-t corresponds to our lieutenant

          I agree - mixed up.
          What can we say about lieutenants, even if it’s impossible to live on a colonel’s salary?

          I am a lieutenant of 400 UAH. - enough. The prize was not paid due to a hassle from the headquarters. Colonel YES - not enough of his money. He is family-friendly and with big children.
          1. Corsair
            Corsair 6 June 2013 13: 01
            +4
            Quote: Akim
            I am a lieutenant of 400 UAH. - enough. The prize was not paid due to a hassle from the headquarters. Colonel YES - not enough of his money. He is family-friendly and with big children.

            And in Russian rubles 400 hryvnia is something about 1600-1700 rubles? Well, well, "woke up the Power."
            1. Akim
              Akim 6 June 2013 13: 14
              +4
              Quote: Corsair
              And in Russian rubles 400 hryvnias

              And it was the 2000th year. And 2200 in Russian rubles. Did a Russian officer get much then? But then, thank God, there was no war at that time.
              1. Corsair
                Corsair 6 June 2013 13: 38
                +1
                Quote: Akim
                But then, thank God, there was no war at that time.

                Yes, but Ukraine is in Ruin (meaning a well-known historical period) and without war, what would happen if ... (God forbid!) In addition, you have TWO smoldering hotbeds of conflict, if there is a razed blaze?
                I doubt it, I'm sorry!
                1. Akim
                  Akim 6 June 2013 13: 48
                  0
                  Quote: Corsair
                  In addition, you have TWO smoldering hotbeds of conflict, if the blaze breaks down?

                  As will be - so be it. If it happens then they will evaluate, and not all these loud statements, with which opponents (and their lured) journalists are rushing now.
    2. Gato
      Gato 6 June 2013 11: 11
      +4
      In the photo - the cop (well, so far not a policeman)
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 6 June 2013 13: 30
        +1
        Quote: Gato
        In the photo - the cop

        VV walks in exactly the same way, so there’s another question: who exactly is pictured
        1. Akim
          Akim 6 June 2013 13: 37
          +2
          Quote: Misantrop
          VV walks in exactly the same way,

          Nothing like this. Conscripts are in cop uniform (and only those who are involved in patrol service), and officers in military uniform. The caps only have different color caps.
          1. Misantrop
            Misantrop 8 June 2013 08: 28
            0
            Quote: Akim
            Conscripts are in cop uniform (and only those who are involved in patrol service), and officers in military uniform. The caps only have different color caps.
            It was written so seriously that I even doubted it. Now he has specifically specified with his son what their officers are wearing. It turns out - not a damn thing, everything - in the cop request
  10. Dromac
    Dromac 6 June 2013 10: 47
    +5
    Every real man must, must and in no other way do military service with weapons in his hands. Otherwise, we get a miserable likeness or at worst heykhloptsov
  11. Raptor75
    Raptor75 6 June 2013 10: 52
    +6
    Quote: ed1968
    someday Russia will also switch to a fully contracted army, our army should consist entirely of professionals. at the same time, introduce the subject of combat training to schools so that every young man or girl knows how to own weapons and provide medical assistance to survive in the wild conduct different fighting styles up to partisan and what happened to get into operation to replace the fallen contract soldiers

    God forbid us from a fully contracted army, for a country like ours, only the mixed principle of manning an army.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 6 June 2013 10: 58
      +2
      Fully contracted peacetime army with mob training. Is the reserve in training centers suitable?
      1. Orty
        Orty 6 June 2013 19: 14
        0
        The army should not be completely contractual, in case of a big war there will not be enough contractors, and this is a mob reserve in training centers. A year of service will give more than any department. Provided that this is a normal service of course. The army is not only a military force but also a tool for building and maintaining the state. And it would be better if the entire male population of the country would feel their involvement in this process. Otherwise, it will turn out like in the USA, but the army of the murmur is from bad areas, and in the Senate there are only lawyers (not the most useful part of society, they don’t produce anything for a fee!).
    2. Gato
      Gato 6 June 2013 11: 08
      11
      for a country like ours, only the mixed principle of manning the army.

      Totally agree with you. A purely contract army is good, but very expensive. In addition, it is necessary to somehow prepare a mobile reserve - and there are clearly not enough NVP lessons in schools.
      I have 18 men at the age of 20 to 45 at my work in the department. Of these, only two others served in the emergency service. Of the remaining 14, NEVER held military weapons in their hands.
      But on February 23, office hamsters are very fond of accepting congratulations and lapping beer.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 6 June 2013 11: 24
        0
        Everything is decided in the presence of political will. Both the mob reserve can be prepared, and the reserve of junior officers.
  12. Algor73
    Algor73 6 June 2013 10: 52
    +7
    It’s scary even to write comments ...
  13. biglow
    biglow 6 June 2013 11: 01
    +7
    If the contractor’s salary is slightly higher than the average in Ukraine, those wishing to join the army will not be the best. Already now empty barracks will be converted into housing for officers. Only Yanukovych’s guard will remain operational, the rest will work as watchmen wink
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 6 June 2013 11: 28
      +4
      Quote: biglow
      Only the protection of Yanukovych will remain combat-ready, the rest will work as watchmen


      biglow hi
      In a state of this type like Ukraine, the "kings of the hill" support the fighting efficiency of only the police, police and special services, so that the people will have someone to chase when the need arises, and the army and navy have nothing to do, everything that could be stolen and sold, stolen and sold - the "theme" is dead.
      PySy: a serviceman with a photo, who is in the maroon beret? belay
      1. Corsair
        Corsair 6 June 2013 11: 34
        +1
        Quote: Karlsonn
        PySy: a soldier in a maroon beret who is training a soldier in the photo, probably proudly wears English camouflage, DDM colors

        And ento the most competent British instructor, corrects fighting skills in the Aglitz style wassat
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 6 June 2013 12: 03
          +2
          Let them learn. Ours, too, have just not visited.

          I watched a film about the history of "Pennant", where one told how they wrote to the Union of a Cuban specialist for the quick extraction of a pistol from a holster.

          Experience is never superfluous.
          1. Akim
            Akim 6 June 2013 12: 15
            +3
            Quote: Spade
            Experience is never superfluous.


            When I was studying and serving, it was impossible for the sentry to keep the automatic machine like that, much less to let in (without a guard) the duty officer on duty.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 6 June 2013 12: 22
              0
              Maybe it's the sentry at the entrance to the guardhouse. From among the "cheerful". The machine holds semi-correctly. On the one hand, not according to the charter, on the other hand, it is impossible to take away quickly.

              It was not so with us. The uncle "at the entrance" was sitting on a low tower, and the gate was opened with a button in the nachkar's room.
              1. Akim
                Akim 6 June 2013 12: 27
                +1
                Quote: Spade
                Maybe it's the sentry at the entrance to the guardroom.

                He is with a walkie-talkie - it means at a remote post.
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 6 June 2013 12: 59
                  0
                  C'mon, this is something propaganda, the officer of the cabaret is clearly empty, but at the same time the sword belt is definitely worn for a couple of years. And not like an actor, his own form. Maybe just a bad option?
                  1. Akim
                    Akim 6 June 2013 13: 08
                    0
                    Quote: Spade
                    C'mon, this is something propaganda

                    It is clear that these are not complete realities. For example, I cannot understand what he is poking at him with. For me, the armor is empty - although I haven't seen the Corsairs live - I could be wrong.
            2. Conepatus
              Conepatus 6 June 2013 22: 41
              -1
              When I was studying and serving, it was impossible for the sentry to keep the automatic machine like that, much less let them in (without a guard) the duty officer on duty. [/ Quote]


              The military unit in which I work is guarded by VOKHOR. (Civilians from SKS-45) So they only let the head of the group and the assistant of the head of the group let in without a breeder. They have a level of discipline. A match, or They will find a sentry-nah.s work. The camera is everywhere poked, one sentry walked along the perimeter, the carbine was in the "on the shoulder" position, hands in the pockets.
          2. Karlsonn
            Karlsonn 6 June 2013 12: 48
            +5
            Quote: Spade
            Experience is never superfluous.


            depending on what experience wassat
        2. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 6 June 2013 12: 45
          +1
          Quote: Corsair
          And ento the most competent British instructor, corrects fighting skills in the Aglitz style


          I'm afraid of that No. no matter what happens, everyone is told about the British.
      2. Lopatov
        Lopatov 6 June 2013 11: 41
        +1
        Quote: Karlsonn
        PySy: a serviceman with a photo, who is in the maroon beret?

        Damn, my friend, this is "cherry", "cherry berry" They wear these berets from the Second World War. British paratrooper.
        1. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 6 June 2013 12: 42
          +1
          Quote: Spade
          Damn, my friend, this is "cherry", "cherry berry" They wear these berets from the Second World War. British paratrooper.


          it was a provocative question repeat I know who it is, I do not know what he can teach our request ?
          1. Corsair
            Corsair 6 June 2013 12: 52
            +3
            Quote: Karlsonn
            I know who it is, I do not know what he can teach our

            Poppy spud, Ukrainian chernozems are too painful! Everyone loves pies with a sosmak laughing
          2. Lopatov
            Lopatov 6 June 2013 12: 54
            +1
            Quote: Karlsonn
            I don’t know what he can teach our

            To that which knows. Let them improve.
            I would very much like to attend a shooting and fire control course from a NATO instructor. I just do not have enough English to adequately understand American field regulations. But trying to read.
            1. Karlsonn
              Karlsonn 6 June 2013 13: 57
              -2
              Quote: Spade
              To that which knows. Let them improve.

              what
              Well, maybe I already thought Brit was telling us about our machine gun.


              Quote: Spade
              I would very much like to attend a shooting and fire control course from a NATO instructor.


              Duc and I would love to join such an undertaking.

          3. biglow
            biglow 6 June 2013 13: 20
            +7
            a British officer can teach only one, others to die for his queen
    2. MG42
      MG42 6 June 2013 18: 59
      +2
      Quote: biglow
      . Only the protection of Yanukovych will remain combat-ready

      his house is guarded by anti-aircraft defense systems including .. and a helicopter is also not the cheapest however
      http://www.segodnya.ua/politics/power/janukovich-letaet-na-vertolete-za-decjatok
      -millionov-evro --- kruche-chem-u-medvedeva.html
      1. Corsair
        Corsair 6 June 2013 23: 18
        -1
        Quote: MG42
        his house is guarded by anti-aircraft defense systems including .. and a helicopter is also not the cheapest

        There wouldn’t be anything terrible if it weren’t for the state of the economy ...
        1. MG42
          MG42 7 June 2013 12: 54
          +2
          Quote: Corsair
          There would be nothing wrong with that

          The new helipad in the Kremlin for the president of Russia was six times cheaper than the one that was built in Kiev on the Park Alley near the Mariinsky Palace for the Ukrainian head of state.
          http://ru.tvi.ua/new/2013/05/27/putinu_postroili_vertoletnuyu_ploschadku_v_6_raz
          _deshevle_chem_yanukovichu
  14. faraon
    faraon 6 June 2013 11: 06
    +2
    article plus. which country wouldn’t be, but you can’t do without an army machine, it’s a state prestige, a completely different level of the country in the international arena. Ukraine has finally matured and decided on a professional army. This is a timely decision. Have a professional army, where there will be to study military affairs in the most real way. Indeed, what Ukraine has a conscription system in which one-year service is provided. During this time, it is impossible to prepare a soldier corresponding to modern time and progress. This requires investment time. Why maintain an army that is used in peacekeeping missions. It is clear here that you need a professional army trained and trained to carry out the specifics of resolving inter-regional conflicts. The ministry of defense of Ukraine has taken the right path to get rid of the ballast of weapons not characteristic of the military doctrine of Ukraine. To remove all the numerous military towns from balance. I wish you success in this enterprise To Ukraine
    1. Corsair
      Corsair 6 June 2013 11: 30
      +2
      Quote: faraon
      To remove from balance all the numerous military camps. I wish success to this government of Ukraine.

      The government of Ukraine is ready to take off its pants too, they would not ask him about the state of affairs in the country. To paraphrase a little L.D. Kuchma I will say:Ukraine is not Israel ...
      Ukraine with its economy to a professional army as you like from Tel Aviv to Kiev crustaceans hi .
      1. faraon
        faraon 6 June 2013 11: 42
        +1
        Perhaps Corsair, you are right, but whatever it was, Ukraine decided to restore order to the army, honor and praise for it. Let those who want to serve in the army, and not those who sentenced the military registration and enlistment office. People on contract service have at least some motivation
        1. Corsair
          Corsair 6 June 2013 13: 21
          +2
          Quote: faraon
          Let those who want serve in the army, and not those who are sentenced by the military registration and enlistment office.

          Have you served in the Israel Defense Forces? You, as you know, universal military service, almost a sentence ...
          A guy who left for permanent residence in Israel with his parents and left "for a while" back to Ukraine upon reaching the age of 18 received a telegram from maman and papan demanding to return to the Promised Land for service, otherwise criminal prosecution or if you want the lack of an opportunity to reunite with the family for fear of this very persecution ...
          Implement your innovative approaches with voluntary service in TSKHAKAL ...
          1. itkul
            itkul 6 June 2013 13: 35
            +1
            Quote: Corsair
            Have you served in the Israel Defense Forces? You, as you know, universal military service, almost a sentence ...


            Yes, they in Israel, too, not everyone wants to serve, here is the news from there

            http://www.isra.com/news/162110


            Yesterday, in Jerusalem, in front of the city military registration and enlistment office, a 30-strong demonstration of orthodoxy protesters against military draft was held. Four of its members were arrested, six policemen were injured, and two of them were severe.
    2. Misantrop
      Misantrop 6 June 2013 13: 36
      +2
      Quote: faraon
      why maintain an army that is used in peacekeeping missions. Here you can see that we need a professional army trained and trained to carry out the specifics of resolving inter-regional conflicts. The ministry of defense of Ukraine has taken the right path to get rid of the ballast of weapons that are not characteristic of the military doctrine of Ukraine. numerous military camps. I wish success to this government of Ukraine.
      If only Israel could adopt and implement this experience, Arabs would cry from happiness laughing
    3. Orty
      Orty 6 June 2013 21: 50
      +1
      Well, yes, yes, because everything in the world happens as we want right? Let's create an army for special operations and peacekeeping missions and that’s all. And only special operations and peacekeeping missions will be carried out. Only them. Even if, for example, Turks or Poles attack. Proudly overcoming all difficulties, our 70 thousand soldiers will stop and put to flight 150 thousand Polish army or 700 thousand Turkish. AND! I forgot, because we have an army for special operations and peacekeeping missions abroad, we must think of emotion that nobody will ever attack us!
      1. Akim
        Akim 6 June 2013 22: 03
        -1
        Quote: Orty
        . Proudly overcoming all difficulties, our 70 thousand soldiers will stop and put to flight 150 thousand Polish army

        Why are you so sick of me. Fucking you strategist. Crowd into the crowd count.
        1. Orty
          Orty 7 June 2013 08: 32
          +3
          A normal strategist, or do you want to say that numerical and technical superiority do not play any role? If opponents of equal level are fighting, then the number is of great importance. So go forest or give arguments. OK?
  15. alex67
    alex67 6 June 2013 11: 38
    +1
    WILL THERE BECOME A CONTRACT OR VACATION RELATED TO REDUCED BUDGET? winked
  16. faraon
    faraon 6 June 2013 11: 46
    +1
    Quote: alex67
    WILL THERE BECOME A CONTRACT OR VACATION RELATED TO REDUCED BUDGET? winked

    But this will just be a test for the lice of the Ukrainian government. They will not be able to support their army will contain someone else's. But in principle, the idea is not bad
  17. Tyunik
    Tyunik 6 June 2013 11: 52
    +5
    The article is good, a lot of sensible comments, but this line just killed:

    “It should be borne in mind that in certain regions of Ukraine it is a great success for young men to get into the army, since it gives them the opportunity to get a certain profession and eat normally.”

    It is impossible to eat normally in our army, and only the construction profession can be obtained.
  18. shark
    shark 6 June 2013 12: 12
    +1
    It’s possible to discuss the quality of Ukrainian VS for a long time. Most likely they’re not all as bad as the media in Russia. Yes, there are enough problems, but who doesn’t have them on the post-council? I was interested in another question, but where will Ukraine get the money for the contract army? ??? If he begs the EU, then this is disgusting, as they say, who gives the girl a drink, he dances her))) That is. another armed pro-Western force on our borders. And if we have? probably they won’t give it. We would have to raise our own from the devastation! Yes, and we have no reason to help. That's the question ...
    1. Akim
      Akim 6 June 2013 12: 23
      +1
      Quote: shark
      another armed pro-Western force on our borders

      You yourself deny one part of the lies published in the media, and support the other. Remember - while on the topographic maps our military draws the enemy in blue - you have nothing to worry about!
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 6 June 2013 13: 38
        +2
        Quote: Akim
        while on topographic maps our military draws the enemy in blue - you have nothing to worry about!

        And if there is not enough budget for colored pencils? what
        1. Akim
          Akim 6 June 2013 13: 41
          +1
          Quote: Misantrop
          And if there is not enough budget for colored pencils?

          Funny. recourse Then why do we need a contract army?
          1. Misantrop
            Misantrop 7 June 2013 11: 34
            0
            Quote: Akim
            Then why do we need a contract army?
            So that it can be outbid by the one who has the money. Wholesale, not chasing each fighter individually
    2. seller trucks
      seller trucks 6 June 2013 12: 26
      +1
      Quote: shark
      I was interested in another question, but where will Ukraine take money for a contract army


      sale of "non-core" real estate, see the "experience" of Serdyukov, the Ukrainian general liked
  19. cartridge
    cartridge 6 June 2013 12: 33
    0
    Lebedev, assuming the post of minister, received from his predecessors several basic programs for the supply of new weapons and equipment to the army, in particular, the Sapsan missile system, the An-70 medium military transport vehicle and the Oplot-M battle tank T-84UM , Vladimir the Great Corvette, project 58250. In addition, there are several modernization programs for the MiG-29 fighters, Mi-2, Mi-9, Mi-8, Mi-24 helicopters, training aircraft L-39, BMP-1.


    I understand that from this list, no program has been completed and will not be executed in the foreseeable future.
    1. Akim
      Akim 6 June 2013 12: 59
      0
      Quote: cartridge
      I understand that from this list, no program has been completed and will not be executed in the foreseeable future.

      Keep track of the information, not just think out loud:
      In 2013, 12 models of equipment will be adopted by the Armed Forces of Ukraine
      The financial resource of the budget program for arming the Armed Forces of Ukraine in 2013 was determined in the amount of more than 919 million UAH. The Minister of Defense of Ukraine Pavel Lebedev said this in an interview with Ukrinform.


      “This year, 12 models of equipment will be put into service - from new gas masks, shells and parachutes to new electronic airborne systems, radars and training complexes. Also, in 2013, 2 units of Malachite radar stations were delivered to the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the construction of the missile cruiser No. 2011 and the lead ship of the Corvette class were carried out. The introduction of an automated GPS monitoring system for vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine has begun. In general, the Ministry of Defense is a state customer of 10 targeted programs and co-executor of 3 programs, ”P. Lebedev said.
      “The implementation of the national program for the creation of the An-70 military transport aircraft is also continuing. The commissions of the Ministry of Defense continue to accept the two final stages of state testing of this aircraft, as well as the modernized L-39 aircraft. Tests of the Mandate-B1E automated radio interference radio communications complex have been completed, ”added the Minister of Defense.
      In addition, according to him, by the end of 2013, it is planned to supply 9 units of BM “Bulat” tanks and 3 units of KrAZ biaxial trucks in the amount of more than 9 million UAH.
      P. Lebedev noted that considerable attention is also paid to organizing timely restoration of the combat effectiveness of weapons and military equipment. He recalled that since the beginning of 2013, 2632 units of weapons and military equipment have been restored in the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
      03.06.2013

      http://www.ukrspecexport.com/index/view/lang/ru/id/1605
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 6 June 2013 13: 39
        0
        Quote: Akim
        This year 12 models of equipment will be adopted

        I wonder if it will be a technique or just what "samples"? what
        1. Akim
          Akim 6 June 2013 13: 53
          0
          Quote: Misantrop
          I wonder if it will be a technique or just what "samples"?

          The simulator for the Su-27 is considered a technique? Or a sonar station for a corvette?
          1. Misantrop
            Misantrop 7 June 2013 11: 41
            0
            Quote: Akim
            The simulator for the Su-27 is considered a technique? Or a sonar station for a corvette?
            Not for jokes, just for information. The technique differs from the sample in the scope of functionality and the quantity of delivery. But not a regular appointment. If it is placed exactly in the place where the use is intended (full-time) and has full functionality for normal use, then this is a technique. And if a single product instead of a batch, and even the possibilities are cut back, then - no more than a sample. For example, as Ukrainian border guards' small arms, one or two copies per squad. It seems to be, but that's the point of this. For general development only ...
  20. Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 6 June 2013 12: 47
    +2
    Looks like a dark, quiet Ukrainian night, from the Russian Federation, a single plane invaded the airspace of Ukraine, which made a release of a parashutist-saboteur-saboteur number 1, then turned back. Landing and development on the ground went according to plan, after which the agent successfully infiltrated the Ministry of Defense Ukraine, under the pseudonym "Sichovoy Stelits". So Anatoly Serdyukov found himself a new job.
  21. kind
    kind 6 June 2013 13: 12
    +1
    starting in 2014, the Ukrainian army will go on a contract basis. The last call will be held this fall.

    We in Russia have already stepped on this rake, Ukraine does not seem to learn from the mistakes of others.
    1. NOBODY EXCEPT US
      NOBODY EXCEPT US 7 June 2013 00: 08
      +1
      But did we have a contract army ??? In my opinion this is more like a parody of this same army ..... the son of skill served under the contract the same barracks the same cleaning of the territory, painting fences and stuff ..... so there’s no need to talk about what Russia hasn’t was, until 18 in the Russian Empire There was always a contract army in one form or another, but our soldiers were professionals ....
  22. misterwulf
    misterwulf 6 June 2013 13: 20
    +1
    As grandfather Lenin used to say: "Not war, not peace, but disband the army!" :)
    1. Alekseev
      Alekseev 6 June 2013 13: 37
      0
      Yes, the Ukrainian "bourgeois" do not need an army even more than the Russian "bourgeoisie".
      This is Old Man Lukashenko decided to create a system that allows, in which case, to call on the defense of his country to the armed people.
      And here neither - nor! stop
      What other "combat-ready" people? what
      Well, he can rebel! Police - need more police!
      Yes, a couple of thousand double basses so that there would be someone to send amers to help somewhere and for propaganda to the gullible Akim and others like him!
  23. Akim
    Akim 6 June 2013 15: 18
    +1
    New Ukrainian field uniform after 5 months of operation. And "oak" - 8 months.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 6 June 2013 15: 20
      0
      So what? Any form is killed.
      1. Akim
        Akim 6 June 2013 15: 34
        0
        Quote: Spade
        Any form is killed.

        I didn't say anything FOR or AGAINST. I just informed. I also like oak / butane stains. In my first year (in the mid-90s) I had steppe colors. In general, we had many options in the company / battery - until a single "oak" was introduced.
  24. uizik
    uizik 6 June 2013 15: 34
    0
    Yes, to hell with her with this army! There is nothing to defend! This pro-gang will defend the "elite" from cattle, that is, from the people!
  25. GOLUBENKO
    GOLUBENKO 6 June 2013 16: 07
    +2
    Ukraine does not have enough money to support the army and navy. Hike the Ukrainian authorities need in all seriousness to revive the Zaporozhye Sich, otherwise it is a disaster. Will the US and the EU start the same mess as in Syria, who will fight the "rebels"? That is that.
    1. rainufa
      rainufa 6 June 2013 17: 13
      +1
      By the way, this should not be ruled out.
  26. vkrav
    vkrav 6 June 2013 17: 01
    +1
    Why do you, as small children, believe in fairy tales ... What army? What naval forces? What contract soldiers? A feeder, and a group close to the feeder. The first thing that Lebedev did after his appointment - PERSONALLY traveled around abandoned military camps in the vicinity Sevastopol on the subject of alienation of territories - guess in whose favor. He, with servile trepidation, was awaited at the headquarters of the Naval Forces of Ukraine, some papers were being prepared, some events were prepared, but he did not even turn there. in this temporarily independent territory I simply do not believe.
  27. Stock captain
    Stock captain 6 June 2013 17: 13
    +1
    This is another nonsense of Yanyk and Asirov. There is no money and never will be, and most importantly there is no idea why this army is needed. The current oligarchic clan has all the friends, with the same asshole they want to sit on two chairs at the same time as the EU and the TS. I agree with the previous author, Ukraine as the state has never been and should not be.
  28. Sevastopolec
    Sevastopolec 6 June 2013 18: 26
    +4
    It would be funny if it were not so sad.
    I myself, as you might guess from the nickname, live in Crimea. I regularly visit relatives in a village near Simferopol. And there is a military training ground near this village and a training ground for the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Until last fall, they even regularly watched a dozen T-72s in pretty good condition. Now they have already caught a trace. According to rumors, they sold it either to Mozambique or to Myanmar ... at the price of a new Lexus per unit. Often I meet the servants from this part. A frayed, worn-out uniform, poorly shaved, gloomy, exhausted faces. And when on a hot day more than five soldiers board the local bus, all passengers try to stay close to the windows, because the smell becomes simply unbearable.
    So, comrades, since our VELYKA, NEPEREMOZHNAYA and NEVERAZHNAYA Ukrayinska Army began to switch to a contractual basis, began to naturally appear with us and contractors. Basically, Ukrainian-speaking and Svidomo from the West (however, for obvious reasons, this is not surprising) There is no place for them in the barracks, so they are forced to rent housing from local residents. They should feed at their own expense (probably, in case of war, cartridges for their ushatannye seventy-four they also have to acquire at their own expense). Well, and the salary they get is - don't fall - 1300 hryvnia (approximately 157 dollars or 5000 rubles.
    Highly professional contract army, you say?
    1. Drosselmeyer
      Drosselmeyer 6 June 2013 22: 47
      +1
      By the way, I also noticed an increase in "zapadentsev" in the rank and file. In fact, those who do not find a place even in Polish gardens go to serve. That is, completely illiterate, poorly educated people, the so-called "Seluk". I have no idea how they are satisfied with such a salary? A loader in a supermarket receives 3000 hryvnia, you can see it at home with no work at all. And where else are they good for with such an education (with its absence).
  29. MG42
    MG42 6 June 2013 18: 41
    +3
    During the formation of the Ukrainian armed forces and in the framework of the transition of the army to the contract, doubts arose repeatedly. And this is not surprising, because the implementation of a comprehensive state program for the development and reform of the armed forces of Ukraine, calculated up to 2017, requires enormous funds - 16 billion dollars or about 131 billion hryvnias.

    Amazingly, the numbers coincide with the $ 16 billion that Ukraine asks the IMF, but has not received for a year already ..
    With a budget of the Ukrainian army of $ 2 billion for 2013, take 8 times more from the sale of "unnecessary property" nu - nu tongue there is a queue of investors <from Cyprus> apparently >>
  30. GOLUBENKO
    GOLUBENKO 6 June 2013 20: 14
    +1
    Quote: rainufa
    By the way, this should not be ruled out.

    Yes, like two fingers.
    Turkey, Qatar and Saudi Arabia will sponsor the Crimean Tatars and transfer a couple of bandit steamers from Syria. In addition to the Marine Corps of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Navy, there will be no one to fight with them.
    And Banderlog for loot and buns from the EU and the United States will gladly start killing the "damned maskals" and Ukrainians for being Orthodox, for being friends with Russians and dreaming of how Belarus will be in an alliance with Russia.
    I think the CIA and the Department of State do not sit in the ass and such a plan is possible and if they press it, they will launch it without hesitation to destabilize the region and drag Russia into it.
  31. MiG-31
    MiG-31 6 June 2013 20: 18
    +2
    As if the Slav brothers did not tear their budget ...
    How is it now with salaries? Junior officers receive approximately how much? Maybe someone knows.
    1. Akim
      Akim 6 June 2013 20: 47
      +1
      Quote: MiG-31
      Junior officers receive approximately how much? Maybe someone knows.

      It all depends on the posts, length of service, secrets, etc. From three to 3,5 thousand. Landing forces receive one and a half times more, sailors two.
      1. Corsair
        Corsair 6 June 2013 21: 31
        0
        Quote: Akim
        It all depends on the posts, length of service, secrets, etc. From three to 3,5 thousand. Landing forces receive one and a half times more, sailors two.

        Almost as an ordinary contractor of the Armed Forces first year of serviceWith that kind of money, the Russian contractor certainly does not "heal", but I emphasize -FIRST YEAR SERVICE CONTRACTOR.
        Well, this is so, "lyrical digression", But I wonder what amounts of payments are willing to put on the allowance of their contractors, the Ukrainian authorities, if the officer's salary in terms of RUR = about 14000. materials ".
        1. Akim
          Akim 6 June 2013 21: 42
          0
          Quote: Corsair
          FIRST YEAR CONTRACTOR OF THE SERVICE.

          Will you scoff, or remember that two years ago officers didn’t fatten you either? Then consider the price difference.
          1. Corsair
            Corsair 6 June 2013 22: 14
            0
            Quote: Akim
            Will you scoff, or remember that two years ago officers didn’t fatten you either? Then consider the price difference.

            Excuse me, but what’s the mockery? Here we discuss the prospect of introducing 100% of contract service in Ukraine, and I think this will be even more mockery of the ZSU, the whole country and you personally ...
            1. Akim
              Akim 6 June 2013 22: 23
              +1
              Quote: Corsair
              It discusses the prospect of introducing a 100% contract service in Ukraine

              I AM FOR a professional army. Well, you can't prepare a fighter in one year, and then start all over again. If in the old way - three patrons and a month of outfits for the kitchen with a line on guard - then you can. A mockery. "Here we are so cool - our military is paid immeasurably." It makes me neither cold nor hot.
              1. Corsair
                Corsair 6 June 2013 23: 10
                +2
                Quote: Akim
                It doesn't make me cold or hot.

                And you should not be steamed, This is to be taken care of by the STATE request .
                Excuse me for the picture, but both in you and in us, power and the state are associated with the First Person ...
                1. Akim
                  Akim 6 June 2013 23: 19
                  -2
                  Quote: Corsair
                  power and state are associated with the First Person ...

                  It is necessary to choose it for the chapter - it is a pity for age does not fit. But she became a deputy of the Supreme Council.
                  1. Corsair
                    Corsair 7 June 2013 00: 05
                    0
                    Quote: Akim
                    It is necessary to choose it for the chapter - it is a pity for age does not fit. But she became a deputy of the Supreme Council.

                    Did you miss the female hand?
                    What Yulia Volodimipivna did not please? wassat
        2. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 6 June 2013 22: 16
          0
          Quote: Corsair
          Almost as an ordinary contractor of the Armed Forces of the first year of service


      2. Corsair
        Corsair 6 June 2013 21: 58
        0
        Quote: Akim
        It all depends on the posts, length of service, secrets, etc. From three to 3,5 thousand. Landing forces receive one and a half times more, sailors two.

        P / S: In order not to be unfounded, I bring "freshly hacked" laughing picture from the official site of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation ...
        WHAT are we discussing?!?
        1. Akim
          Akim 6 June 2013 22: 13
          0
          Quote: Corsair
          : In order not to be unfounded, I quote "freshly hacked"

          Consider that I believed a piece of paper. We also have a lot of things written. And that the seediest contractor receives three thousand, etc. The fact that the Russian contractor will receive as our major - I know. So what? I can be glad for your military. I will not envy. So you can say about the United States, where the captain -150 thousand runs a year.
          1. Corsair
            Corsair 6 June 2013 22: 21
            0
            Quote: Akim
            Consider that I believed a piece of paper. We also have a lot of things written. And that the seediest contractor receives three thousand, etc. The fact that the Russian contractor will receive as our major - I know. So what? I can be glad for your military. I will not envy. So you can say about the United States, where the captain -150 thousand runs a year.

            Amer is a different world, a different worldview. But we are neighbors, even more, and the GROWTH in theory should go in parallel (+ - adjusted for the potential that Ukraine has was Wow)! But for some reason this does not happen, did not think why?
            1. Akim
              Akim 6 June 2013 22: 26
              0
              Quote: Corsair
              But for some reason this does not happen, did not think why?

              You are translating the issue into the political plane. This is not for me, I do not solve anything there.
              1. Corsair
                Corsair 6 June 2013 23: 55
                0
                Quote: Akim
                You are translating the issue into the political plane. This is not for me, I do not solve anything there.

                Kohl got involved in the discussion of such a pressing topic (for Ukraine), please:
                Just analyze, sometimes useful, and try to draw a conclusion for YOURSELF PERSONALLY, will Ukraine pull the "contract" and will it benefit at the moment from the introduction of this institution?
                All statements like: "I am for a professional army" should be based on some kind of foundation, but Ukraine does not have one and is not foreseen in the future. Be a realist (although your ineradicable optimism also impresses hi ).
                1. Akim
                  Akim 7 June 2013 01: 03
                  0
                  Quote: Corsair
                  Be realistic (although optimistic your indestructible also impresses

                  No, I need to write: that everything is bad in Ukraine, life is ... de and, in general, we need to go to the churchyard. But what will change from this :? This is an empty concussion. You have to be optimistic and see the pluses instead of crosses in the cemetery. And remember that once it was even worse. and now you can live. So it is in the army. Previously, there was no money and combat training, now even though they began to shoot more often. Rejoice at the small and the great will come!
  32. Drosselmeyer
    Drosselmeyer 6 June 2013 22: 40
    +2
    The difference in salaries between the Ukrainian military and the Russian is huge. If a female sailor of the Black Sea Fleet, wiping her ass at the KP receives 7-8 thousand hryvnias (about 900-1000 dollars), then the colonel does not receive such a salary in the Ukrainian army. Everyone hopes to crawl somewhere in the post, where you can at least steal something. Ukrainian sailors snooping around the city in washed robes and worn boots (you look at them and are ashamed), there is not even money to provide all sailors with outlet clothes.
  33. georg737577
    georg737577 6 June 2013 23: 09
    0
    Guys, let's look deeper - the presidential elections in 15, contract servicemen are politically more "trustworthy", but if they pay extra, they will shoot at the people. And with conscripts it is more difficult. Janek is less afraid of the contract army, the contract soldier is essentially the same mercenary .. So you need to switch to a contract in 14 - before the elections (and what will start after them ...)
  34. Lustrator
    Lustrator 7 June 2013 00: 19
    -1
    Quote: georg737577
    Guys, let's look deeper - the presidential elections in 15, contract servicemen are politically more "trustworthy", but if they pay extra, they will shoot at the people. And with conscripts it is more difficult. Janek is less afraid of the contract army, the contract soldier is essentially the same mercenary .. So we need to switch to a contract in 14 - before the elections (and what will start after them ...)

    Do not carry the blizzard about the mercenaries, balabol! So far, if the Ukrainian army is holding on to something, it’s not monetary allowance, no matter how small it is (or large was not promised)
    Now it is not enough to fill up a soldier with money - as the experience of the same Americans has shown, they do not value the collective much, and when faced with a real non-illusory threat "their own f * ck", they can fold (especially if there are losses and increase. and mercenaries, moreover real, a good half are non-citizens of the US It is saved by training - they work for the result, and not for its imitation, as in the Armed Forces of Ukraine, for the most part.
    The idea of ​​a warrior-defender of the Motherland has long been poached, and why they are so zealously trying to replace it with the idea of ​​a soldier-mercenary, that I personally understand that the basis of power is big business, and it requires protection.
    As for the acolytes recently admitted to the EU, such as Poland and Romania, their doctrine corresponds to the aggressive NATO position, representing the interests of their Anglo-German-French masters. BUT! none of these Saxon rats will go to fight for the same Poland, Romania, Latvia, Lithuania ... because they are a bargaining chip in the big game.
    But we have something to lose, and I personally don’t understand why the citizens of the country impose manure and loot people who are really at the first risk of becoming victims of democratization of the undeveloped resources of developing countries! It’s also not clear to me that many people criticize something that they ABSOLUTELY do not understand, but still try to put their little handful on a foreign forum.
    Guys, you yourself present yourself as idiots in front of your neighbors, and blame the army for everything that is weak, stupid and lazy, the authorities are corrupt, and those around you, that they have become moral monsters. "All g * ndons, I alone am D'Artagnan" (1). All the passion of a modern Ukrainian (and not only) comes down to how to get the dough to satisfy his consumer hunger. For see (1) plus "I deserve it."
    It turns out - the army will be strong. It doesn’t work out - you will, like the Latvians, open the doors to the burghers. Or does someone else believe that Europe is trying to help us all? Already tried a couple of civilizational campaigns, yeah.
    Separately, for the gloating over the question of the Russians, I will say this: if you laugh heartily at the obvious troubles and failures of your neighbors, you are worthless as brothers. And keep in mind that the "mouthpiece of democratization" is directed at us all, and we will all have to solve this problem together, whether you like it or not.
  35. kadet54
    kadet54 7 June 2013 00: 54
    +1
    To transfer the army to a contract, you need a lot of money: for a decent salary, for housing, for combat training. And then there’s no money! ... And people come to the army for a contract, and after half a year they write reports on dismissal. In most parts they are engaged in household work, paper insanity and window dressing.
  36. Lustrator
    Lustrator 7 June 2013 20: 21
    0
    They come not because they want to serve, but because of a crisis in the labor market. And even future officers who practice in units are not particularly willing to serve with such conditions. The state cannot answer the military with a question about their life, so what can we expect from a soldier who is constantly engaged only in finding additional income and solving housing problems. But this does not prevent the high command staff from living happily ever after — they simply do not care about the problems of subordinates. What power is such a state.
    No money, speak? It’s just that they’re not spent on education, defense, science and health care, but on lehuses to nuns, palaces for mistresses and the golden toilet bowl of their royal f * ck. As if the Middle Ages again fell. As you don’t wrap it * in silk - it will * remain.
    I tell you that there is no power in itself, and we are all part of this mechanism. It is customary to fight for your well-being, rather than sit on a bench and mumble about your powerlessness.
  37. RoTTor
    RoTTor 9 June 2013 00: 02
    +1
    Ukrainian army? Not even funny!
    In 1991, there was a colossal military grouping on the territory of the Ukrainian SSR: Kiev, Odessa, Carpathian military districts, KChF, Strategic Missile Forces army, air defense army, DA army, border district, Black Sea Fleet, about 30 military educational institutions, including two military academies + military forces +, allocated to the territory of the USSR after fleeing from former groups of troops.
    Due to the impotence of the top military leadership and the lack of Bonapartes among the officers, this whole armada was consumed by the USSR. After 1991, re-sworn to Ukraine in full drunk fruits of betrayal, no one needed, abandoned. Because for staying in then satisfying Ukraine, and not getting into ZabVO, Far East, etc. were even ready to serve the devil ...
    The army of Ukraine is a fiction. There was not a single normal military school. But everywhere crowds of flabby colonels and bald-headed generals hang around. And the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine is growing like a cancer tumor, swallowing under the swollen services of the territory of several destroyed military schools.
    A squadron capable of flying into the air is hardly likely to be drawn from a huge aviation armada. But whether they will be able to fly somewhere or sit down is a question because of the low level of training. Soon the last Soviet-made combat aircraft will not be able to fly at all.
    This can be continued indefinitely, more precisely, until the complete plunder of what remains.
    I wonder at what minute after the declaration of war does this “army” capitulate?

    However, there is a great way out. To leave the only necessary military unit from this scum - the guard of honor company.
    And then, temporarily. Then, at any meeting-seeing off, invite an hourly pay mimance from the opera house. It will be more beautiful and cheaper!
  38. Marek Rozny
    Marek Rozny 10 June 2013 00: 01
    +1
    To go nuts ... In Ukraine, 50 million people, and the army will be 120 thousand. In Kazakhstan, 17 million people, the armed forces - 100 thousand people, of which 70% are contract soldiers (plus reservists are trained among civilians). And we are still sad, considering that we have a small army ...
  39. Hauptam
    Hauptam 10 June 2013 23: 08
    0
    And when did Ukraine fight and with whom? Or as part of Russia or Poland, there are still drunken heroes of the steep ditching the boys, Let them make the Best contract army, The question is why, now they can’t hide behind caches, If you fight with Mali or in Rwanda, then they can spoil Senezhikov and fight I think no.
  40. a-cola
    a-cola 27 August 2014 10: 13
    0
    Pictures from the past ... Just a little over a year has passed and we saw what the Ukrainian army really is. It bombes its own cities and suffocates in the coppers of militias. Unsuitable, morally decomposed. To say such a thing then, no one would believe.