Military Review

Non-firing cannons and missiles that do not hit anywhere: “sinking” shipyards of Russia drag the state defense order

183
Non-firing cannons and missiles that do not hit anywhere: “sinking” shipyards of Russia drag the state defense order

Recently, a series of permutations took place in the largest shipbuilding company in Russia - the state United Shipbuilding Corporation. The company’s president, Andrei Dyachkov, resigned, and Vladimir Shmakov was appointed in his place, previously, the first deputy general director of Uralvagonzavod. At the same time, Dyachkov only less than a year ago replaced Roman Trotsenko as head of the USC.


The strange retraining of the tank builder in the shipbuilder is motivated quite unambiguously - Shmakov must use his experience of crisis management. Additionally, "announced" audit of all contracts, and possibly personnel changes. Further, according to the Minister of Industry and Trade Dmitry Manturov, the state corporation will be able to transfer part of the work on overdue orders to foreign subcontractors.

In other words, quite radical measures are planned, and this is not surprising. So, according to Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin, the implementation of the state defense order, foiled by shipbuilders last year, can be frustrated in this. Meanwhile, the state of domestic fleet, cautiously speaking, does not inspire optimism.

By the beginning of the "tenths" very little was left of the Soviet naval power - so, instead of more than forty nuclear missile submarines in the Northern Fleet only 18 remained, in the Baltic the number of diesel submarines decreased more than ten times - from 32 to 3, and as a result The submarine forces of the Baltic Fleet were less ... Polish. From the huge surface fleet, which included more 160 ships of the far sea zone, 2011 combat-ready 25 and 1 ranks - 2 aircraft carriers, four cruisers, six destroyers, ten large anti-submarine ships and five patrol ships. However, Kuznetsov can only be called a full-fledged aircraft carrier only in a state of unrestrained optimism. In the ranks, there are only ten deck aircraft, the propulsion system of the ship is unreliable. Missile armament of cruisers, destroyers, and "tactical" submarines, once a formidable enough, has long been outdated. The Russian fleet is frankly weak - and at the same time it is dispersed throughout the four waters, not counting the Caspian Sea.

Meanwhile, the ocean holds for the Russian Federation very unequivocal threats. Deprived of cover, submarines with strategic missiles are quite vulnerable. At the same time, the most dangerous scenario of a nuclear attack against the Russian Federation is a disarming and “decapitating” strike of American strategic submarines secretly concentrated off the coast; with a salvo from the Barents Sea, the missiles reached targets in Central Russia in 8-10 minutes, and there would be no time to respond. As a result, effective “monitoring” of the adjacent part of the ocean is for the country literally a matter of life and death. The Russian Federation has vast economic interests in the ocean - to defend that simply by installing flags at the bottom obviously will not work. Finally, there are territorial disputes - and in the case of Japan, we are talking about a country with a huge and modern fleet.

As a result, the shipbuilding part of the state armaments program turned out to be very extensive and costly - it was planned to allocate about a quarter of the total amount to the needs of the fleet, 4,7 trillion. rubles, while a third of this amount was scheduled to spend up to 2015 year.

In 2010, it was planned to build 35 ships in five years - six nuclear and five diesel submarines, five frigates, six corvettes, etc. By 2020, it was planned to build 54 surface ships and 24 submarines, to carry out extensive upgrades and bring into combat readiness a significant part of the ships deployed in the reserve. In the future, in 2020-x planned construction of aircraft carriers and large nuclear destroyers.

However, the reality turned out to be radically different. 2011 was marked by disputes between shipbuilders and the Ministry of Defense about the "price" of contracts (the military reasonably suspected shipbuilders of inflating 15-20% prices) and a long series of criminal cases. So, "Admiral Kuznetsov" received a "used", non-standard and rusty anchor, bought by enterprising suppliers in the Netherlands for a million rubles, while four were allocated from the budget. In the end, the contracts were still signed, but the confusion led to a decrease in output by 16,2%.

2012-th brought a new wave of unpleasant surprises. Thus, the work on the construction of the shipbuilding complex "Zvezda" in the Far East was successfully disrupted, while the USC was found to have an excessively "creative" approach to the compilation of reports. In shipbuilding itself, the company has expired about a third of the contracts.

Ships are still being built extremely slowly - the first frigate of the 22350 series, built in the 2006, was launched in the 2011, the second was laid only in the 2009, the six remaining ships of the series still exist only on paper. Meanwhile, we are not talking about battleships: 22350 - these are quite small ships with a displacement of 4,5 thousand tons. As a result, the Ministry of Defense's lost patience was forced to order two 11356 M frigates, designed for India.

A similar situation exists with non-nuclear submarines of the new generation, equipped with an air-independent power plant. The Lada project faced technical difficulties and was "stuck" - as a result, the Ministry of Defense was forced to buy the outdated Varshavyanka / Kilo.

With a tremendous creak comes the development of new weapons. For example, the Redut air defense system, intended for installation on ships of a new generation, out of three test launches, missed all three times, while it is quite likely that this is not a matter of ordinary technical problems, but of conceptual errors of the project.

Even more impressive looks история The new 100-mm AU-190 artillery mount, well demonstrating the mores of the domestic military-industrial complex. With the stated rate of fire in 80 rounds per minute, the gun often sticks after three. At the same time, according to the manufacturer, “after the state tests in 2001, the artillery system went down to us crude and unstable. It shoots, it does not. The ROC was performed incorrectly, therefore during serial production we constantly had to make changes to the design documentation in the tens and hundreds. And the delays from that that we do not release products from the factory until they shoot properly. In ten years, we have eliminated most of the OCD deficiencies. "

So, the raw "super-weapon" successfully passed state tests, it was put into service and in production. After that, the manufacturers slowly corrected "individual flaws" for ten years - without ceasing to broadcast about the "unparalleled in the world" guns ... apparently to drown out the indignant cries of indians crying out from behind the cordon who carelessly installed AU-190 on several of their ships.

We will be fair to the domestic "defense industry" - at least it does not suffer from cringing before the East, completely impartially tearing down both domestic and foreign contracts. Frigates for India are built as long, thoughtfully and meditatively, as frigates for the Russian Navy. The story of the long-suffering aircraft carrier Vikramaditya is no less epic than the "adventures" of non-firing cannons and missiles that never went anywhere - during the tests on it, seven of the eight boilers failed at once. At the same time, the Indians were obviously impressed by the extraordinary ease with which their counterparties reacted to this trivial attention: “Russians are actually confident that their privileged position will be eternal. However, defense is a matter of national survival, and there’s no places of sentiment. "

No less entertaining is the history of the Nerpa nuclear submarine, which should be leased to India. The tragedy of the 2008 year on a submarine, when 20 people died from poisoning by a poisonous fire fighting vehicle, is very likely related not to the “human factor”, but to the incorrect operation of the automation - similar systems of the Russian fleet malfunctioned. A week ago, another set of unsightly facts surfaced - as it turned out, out of a billion rubles allocated for the completion of the submarine, only half reached Amur Shipyard. The rest has disappeared in an unknown direction.

In general, it is clear that without very radical measures to implement the impressive plans of the Ministry of Defense, you can forget. Shipbuilding problems are quite typical for our military industry, but the scale and complexity of shipbuilding projects squares them. In shipyards, you can steal on a special scale; here is a special space for frank sloppiness. In the fleet, as in the infrastructure, with a strong desire, you can “bury” almost arbitrary amounts.
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  1. il grand casino
    il grand casino 2 June 2013 14: 02 New
    26
    Thanks for the review!
    Especially our concerns should ponder: "At the same time, the Indians were obviously impressed by the extraordinary ease with which their counterparties reacted to this not worth attention trifle:" The Russians are in fact confident that their privileged position will be eternal. However, defense is a matter of national survival, and there is no room for sentimentality. "
    And then after all, they can start buying from someone else. It is possible to drive any products with their stools (if rollbacks are done on time) ... however, the Indians also sin with this)))
    1. Karabu
      Karabu 2 June 2013 14: 48 New
      24
      Unfortunately, such obvious things are of little concern to our government. rearmament program 2020 turns into the same expensive PR as Sochi 2014, where everyone and sundry fill their pockets with the noise and slogans
      1. Interface
        Interface 2 June 2013 17: 36 New
        33
        I climbed here and came to the conclusion that the negative topic of the article is "screwed up".

        I am attaching a photo of the "star" complex, which, according to the author, "is not being built" and they say everything is in the ass, oops, sorry, an elephant. http://dcss.ru/fotoreportazh/sudostroitelnyy-kompleks-zvezda-hod-stroitelstva-bl
        oka-korpusoobrabatyvayuschih-proizvodstv.-noyabr-2012-g.html
        This is the official website of the enterprise. It is clearly visible that the complex was rebuilt, I think the equipment is being installed.

        Further. Why speculate on problems? Yes, I missed three times, the Redoubt complex, but this is a new technique, plus, the task was given to fit the complex into a small ship, and this led to a decrease in performance. How is it not without failures?
        Remember how you experienced the same "Satan". At first, the rocket fell, not picking up speed when leaving the mine, the so-called. "mortar start". But still it flew! And it has been in service for 40 years. Why, because of the 3 disastrous SHOTS of the "raw" complex, stir up the hype and shout: Kaaak everything is fucked up ..... bl.t, the filthy Putinists have ruined everything .. and so on.
        As for the art. installations are the same conversation. On December 27 of 2012, a modified version of the au-190-01 was tested, it went to the calculated data, shot 80 rounds per minute, etc. It was adopted. And the AUTHOR spread the PATTERNING ON THE OLD VERSION, WHICH DO NOT USE IN PRACTICE.

        So that not everything is as bad as the article says. In places-- generally contrived defeatist pathos.
        1. den.79
          den.79 2 June 2013 21: 30 New
          0
          and the launches of Satan after prolonged storage, not a fact. and there are many reasons for this (see newspapers and magazines)
          1. crazyrom
            crazyrom 2 June 2013 22: 02 New
            +7
            Why are there so many minuses to the article, the person described the crimes of the previous leadership quite well (for which we hope he will be jailed), now the new leadership will rake it all up and put it in order.
            1. True
              True 3 June 2013 09: 42 New
              +3
              Yes you, sir, a romantic.
        2. starshina78
          starshina78 2 June 2013 22: 36 New
          +8
          I would not criticize the author, but supported him, and would add a couple of facts proving the author’s correctness. In my hometown there are several factories (and I myself work at one of them) of dual-use, that is, now they produce peaceful products, and in wartime they must reorganize to produce products for the war (there are types and quantities of products manufactured at that time) . So the worst thing is that not one of the factories (if only metallurgical), will not be able to produce military products. There are three reasons: personnel, equipment, opportunities. Personnel - old workers are finalizing, there is no young shift, nonresident (coming to work on a rotational basis) do not know the specifics and work in auxiliary positions (comes to the ridiculous - an electronic engineer works as a slinger). Equipment - worn to the limit, the owner is not interested in changing it, if it still makes a profit, equipment not involved in the work is sold. Although it should be involved in the production of military products. The owner does not want to pay tax for equipment that is not profitable. Opportunities - factories lose it, due to the closure of individual workshops and their reprofiling. Thanks to similar reasons, we get everything through one place.
          1. skeptic
            skeptic 3 June 2013 11: 07 New
            +1
            Let's be fair to the domestic "defense industry" - at least it does not suffer from sycophancy before the East, absolutely impartially breaking down both domestic and foreign contracts.

            And this leads to the loss of sales markets, loss of orders and the collapse of the industry. Here is a clear example of the work of private privatizers. The thieves who have seized the property of the enterprise (I suspect that the money for privatization was given to many of them by "well-wishers" from the CIA) is destroying equipment for scrap, empty workshops, or sells or leases abroad. And so throughout the country (in many places where I've been - I see wherever factories have become private). The idea of ​​the leadership to continue further privatization of the military-industrial complex is deeply doubtful.

            Oh, how I would like to be mistaken, but what is it?
        3. Nick
          Nick 2 June 2013 23: 23 New
          +5
          Quote: Interface
          So that not everything is as bad as the article says. In places-- generally contrived defeatist pathos.

          The article is a half-truth that, as you know, worse than a lie ...
        4. Semen Semyonitch
          Semen Semyonitch 3 June 2013 05: 26 New
          0
          So not everything is so bad)))
        5. True
          True 3 June 2013 09: 37 New
          +1
          This is the official website of the enterprise. It is clearly visible that the complex was rebuilt, I think the equipment is being installed

          The famous "photo".
        6. Misantrop
          Misantrop 3 June 2013 11: 06 New
          +1
          Quote: Interface
          negative topic of the article is "screwed up".

          IMHO the topic of the article is that when deciding to SPEND for the construction of the fleet, MONITORING of these expenses is not ABSOLUTELY ensured. And the thieving pack took it only as an invitation to the table. With this approach, it is possible to plant at least the entire budget of the Russian Federation in the construction of the fleet, the result will be the same, if not worse
        7. little man
          little man 3 June 2013 18: 07 New
          -1
          The article is excellent. And you interface in your comment confirmed all this. And to show the company’s website and say look how beautiful everything is there ... well, that’s completely naive.
      2. Vovka levka
        Vovka levka 2 June 2013 19: 40 New
        +9
        Quote: Karabu
        Unfortunately, such obvious things are of little concern to our government. rearmament program 2020 turns into the same expensive PR as Sochi 2014, where everyone and sundry fill their pockets with the noise and slogans

        Grandmas, grandmas and more, more, more grandmas. And the rest is sideways.
        1. Agent.
          Agent. 2 June 2013 20: 35 New
          0
          Look at how many problems the Americans have with their Raptor, they will literally torture him.
          1. old man54
            old man54 2 June 2013 23: 44 New
            +4
            and what do we care about striped? We must understand our own, and not backtrack on them!
      3. Alekseev
        Alekseev 2 June 2013 21: 26 New
        +7
        The article raised topical issues.
        Of course, we all would like to see no reason for such outrages. But ..., alas, they are.
        And they will be until the "planting" of creatures who want to enrich themselves on the country's defense capabilities begin.
        And evidence must necessarily come to light (like a piano in the bushes), even though the year is now not the 37th! am
      4. poquello
        poquello 2 June 2013 23: 33 New
        +1
        "the rearmament program 2020 turns into the same expensive PR as Sochi 2014"

        Well, they fill their pockets, they catch someone in the process of stuffing. Sochi is under construction, continue to continue?
        1. waisson
          waisson 3 June 2013 01: 41 New
          0
          for whom and how much and at the expense of whom I am one of the former builders of the Sochi Olympics
    2. Rustam
      Rustam 2 June 2013 15: 03 New
      21
      what can I say - no gratitude, something to add as I and few others are constantly talking about it here - our goal is not to humiliate, but to put things in order, especially in the managerial staff, introduce new technologies, pay salaries and deal with monopolists, even learn from them , created joint ventures, but to hell with him even let them do for example 2 frigates there +6 with us (we get construction and production technologies)

      but USC in recent years, what has it been doing? hanged noodles for all of us, ordered pompous articles and, most importantly, sucked Mistral (oh how he didn’t like them)

      You can talk a lot, the former Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation (you can relate to it differently) forced the USC to conclude contracts with real price, regarding guns and other weapons, this is all that monopolists like Arsenal were imposed on us at once - the former commander in chief considered the issue of Otto Melara and their joint production

      here is my pre post to the topic



      15
      Rustam  April 2, 2013 12:28 | Continuation of the construction of the head frigate of project 22350


      _________

      Pay say? Did you just blurt out it unknowingly, or is it so pure to justify 8 year construction?

      have to reveal the secret then and pee the situation as I know it

      1- I have always been against monopolists especially in the military-industrial complex and have always advocated competition

      2- initially when laying this frigate, the deadline for its delivery was prescribed in the contract mid-2009 !!!! all this happened during the then defense min. comrade Ivanov - Sev Ferf (for some reason) then so many GOZ orders were poured that already knowing people said that they could not cope, and this was a series of corvettes 22380 and frigates 22350 and auxiliary vessels - with 100% financing

      2- moreover, the top managers of the Sev shipyard were beating in the chest that everything would be done exactly and on time (we already know a little how goz goes with money - on the example of the Kurganmashzavod they get money and instead of concluding agreements with subcontractors and starting work on such a new product, they simply scroll through them at the banks, earning income, but making the appearance of work for everyone
      what is interesting at that moment the Balt plant also struggled for state contracts, which was much more technologically advanced and more advanced, having recently handed over the first series of frigates 11356 to India, but it didn’t obey state structures, and it had to be strangled without giving orders, and then forced to bankrupt sell the owner to the OSK structure

      3- I remind you that the deadline (first launch) of Gorshkov is specified in the contract as 2009 - in the west this Northern shipyard was simply forced to pay such penalties for the failure of such a contract that they would gasp and someone would even crouch

      You can have a different attitude towards Mr. Serdyukov and his deputies, especially Sukhorukov, but in 2009 they looked that for 3 years the result was zero, they simply threatened the Sev shipyard with problems and courts, after which some movements began, and when the curator of the military-industrial complex could not stand it ( at that time) S. Ivanov held a meeting at the North Shipyard and handed out gingerbread cookies, things finally went

      that's all, and you say (hard workers get pennies and someone gets rich enormously)

      PS- it’s just that some people from our military-industrial complex are beating in the chest, shouting that give us the order for the state defense order, we will do everything on time and chocolate, and then when the problems begin with fulfillment and especially with quality, they make a sweet smile - and then dissipate the Russian Ministry of Defense (though everyone understands that the same Sev shipyard received these orders for a reason, the Navy has its own people

      if ever we learn to build at such a pace I will be happy
      (clickable) France (DCNS shipyard (2013) the construction of the first Mistral class ship for the Russian Navy (Vladivostok) is in full swing

      Yes, on June 18, the laying of the second Mistral for the Russian Navy will take place
      1. Ruslan_F38
        Ruslan_F38 2 June 2013 15: 35 New
        10
        And there is no need to stand on ceremony with those guilty of disrupting defense orders, regardless of ranks and ranks, with robbers, with crooks and others. Now is such an alarming time that it is time, if not to shoot, then put in life for such crimes. Maybe it’s enough to play democracy already, otherwise something with us all this concept is somehow understood in a special way - permissiveness. It is necessary to equate the failure of the defense order, technical imperfections, an increase in the value of orders, theft of funds, poor performance to betray the interests of the country. Plant 20 people in public and forever and immediately all come to their senses.
        1. ozs
          ozs 2 June 2013 17: 07 New
          +9
          Are you talking about whom, not really bees will trample honey against honey
        2. gladysheff2010
          gladysheff2010 2 June 2013 23: 02 New
          +2
          The person is absolutely right, it's time to change the liberal (imposed from the outside) legislation for a tougher one, otherwise we will never be able to instill with this, if one may say so, the so-called. "defense industry", a sense of responsibility, and better fear of the law. And the processes in these cases should be indicative, and the time frame adequate, without amnesty for economic crimes, and without the protection of state corporations angry
      2. Rustam
        Rustam 3 June 2013 01: 07 New
        +1
        Mistral would be faster in the Navy

        There is a current that cross-eyed agitated-URGENT NEWS

        TOKYO, June 2. (ARMS-TASS). Japan is concerned about the agreement between Moscow and Paris on the supply to Russia of two Mistral-class universal amphibious assault ships (UDC). This was announced today in Singapore by Japanese Defense Minister Itsunori Onodera at the talks with his French counterpart Jean-Yves Le Drian, held on the sidelines of the forum of the heads of the military departments of the Asia-Pacific region within the framework of the so-called Shangri-la Dialogue.

        "This decision upsets the balance of power in the Far East," Onodera said.

        At present, the French shipyard in Saint-Nazaire is building two Mistral-type UDCs (Vladivostok and Sevastopol), intended to be handed over to the Russian Navy. Earlier, the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces noted that at least one of them could be transferred to the Pacific Fleet.

        Displacement UDC "Mistral" is 21,6 thousand tons, the maximum length of the hull - 200 meters, speed - up to 19 nodes, cruising range - up to 11 thousand miles at a speed of 15 nodes. The crew has 177 people and 230 people. in the composition of the wing. In addition, the ship can take on board the 450 marines and up to 60 units of light vehicle vehicles. The air group includes 16 helicopters, six of which can simultaneously be placed on the takeoff deck.

        Drawing of the Russian UDC of the Mistral type by DCNS
      3. Dmitriy2009
        Dmitriy2009 3 June 2013 04: 26 New
        -1
        I am shocked by 22 people for buying military equipment from a potential enemy of NATO. Are people with your head all right?
    3. Army1
      Army1 2 June 2013 15: 38 New
      +4
      with a salvo from the Barents Sea, missiles will achieve targets in Central Russia in 8-10 minutes, and there will be no time for a response

      Our song is good, start over. There is no time and nerve to prove.
    4. knn54
      knn54 2 June 2013 16: 13 New
      +7
      il grand casino: ... however, the Indians also sin with this)))
      They steal from their profits, and they steal from our losses.
    5. Joker
      Joker 2 June 2013 16: 58 New
      +3
      Well, and you are throwing Americans all their hats. We, too, are not without jambs, well, at least the submarines are not like Spanish))
    6. Civil
      Civil 2 June 2013 18: 33 New
      +4
      And what did the author want ?! This is normal standard capitalism with its strict scale of values.
      1. sergey261180
        sergey261180 2 June 2013 19: 06 New
        +8
        This is kleptocratic capitalism!
    7. vyatom
      vyatom 3 June 2013 11: 22 New
      +1
      We do not value allies. We sell and sell everything. And soon the Indians will give up our equipment. And the situation is very reminiscent of 1914, where Leonid Sobolev described it especially competently in the book "Overhaul". I recommend reading. A huge amount of money was allocated for the construction of the fleet after the Tsushima defeat, but since they settled in our shipyards, they were simply plundered and many ships remained on the stocks before the start of the war. Even then, naval officers reasoned that it was much cheaper and of better quality to order new battleships and cruisers at British and American shipyards. Even then, it was said about the missing capacities of the Baltic and Kirov plants. Shows the bestial attitude of some officers to the sailors. And the Bolsheviks used the bulk of the sailor masses precisely on the basis of hatred of the officers. And so it was. And not as Solzhenitsyn or the seascape writer Nikolai Cherkashin writes about it.
  2. svp67
    svp67 2 June 2013 14: 03 New
    23
    Yes, the article is full of pain ... How, finally, I want the country to show order, for this all we need is to show the political will to our leadership ...
    1. rolik
      rolik 2 June 2013 14: 33 New
      25
      Quote: svp67
      for this, it’s all that’s necessary - to show the political will to our leadership ...

      To do this, it is necessary to tighten the policy of the inevitability of punishments for shoals to the detriment of the Fatherland. It is not necessary to remove from posts and transfer to other warm places. And plant for a long time and away, then the prices immediately agree and the order will be completed on time and with good quality. There was an example already, as soon as Khodorkovsky was planted, immediately the fuel prices came to more normal values. So everyone saw it. that you can’t play bad jokes with the state. It’s a pity that it was all over. At our enterprise, we should also send several former executives to extract gold instead of sending them to warm places in Moscow.
      1. Rink
        Rink 2 June 2013 15: 25 New
        +9
        Quote: rolik
        To do this, it is necessary to tighten the policy of the inevitability of punishments for shoals to the detriment of the Fatherland. It is not necessary to remove from posts and transfer to other warm places. And plant for a long time and away ....

        Exactly!!! I support!
        On the one hand, the situation has been launched and a systematic, targeted destruction of the defense industry has been going on for decades. It was, and everyone here knows why it happened.
        But the jokes were over, the situation was pre-war. In such circumstances, either the government must show the necessary rigidity and finally put in leading positions in the defense industry and the education system of competent patriots, or Russia will cease to exist.
        We need decisiveness, we need real tight control: you can’t cope - nafig! deliberately slowing down - there are many places in Siberia, there are places to work for saboteurs.
        Otherwise, in the whole industry, those sneaks who only know how to fill their pockets will creep into leading positions. These "businessmen" have a special nose for the smell of money, they climb to the feeders with such force that they can only be stopped with a machine gun. They are of no use to the state: they do not know how to raise industry, but they immediately take out everything stolen. And if a person has all his fortune in the West, can he be independent from the West? Yes, he is already automatically on their hook! He will do whatever the Western special services tell him ...
        These are the ones that need to be cleaned.
        1. Normal
          Normal 2 June 2013 19: 01 New
          +8
          Quote: rolik
          To do this, it is necessary to tighten the policy of the inevitability of punishments for shoals to the detriment of the Fatherland. It is not necessary to remove from posts and transfer to other warm places. And plant for a long time and away, then prices will immediately agree and the order will be completed on time and with good quality

          In order to "toughen up" something, something must already exist. How can the "policy of inevitability of punishment" be toughened if no inevitability exists? All GDP policy is based on the principle of personal loyalty or loyalty. If you are loyal to GDP, you can steal fearlessly. This has been proven repeatedly and for a long time.
          The issues described in the article are not new. In the field of development and production of weapons in the late 20s and throughout the 30s, approximately the same thing happened. In order to bring to life the designers and production workers, Stalin had to apply tough, even cruel measures. But even having gone too far, it was not possible to achieve the result in full and necessary measure. I had to seek help in the supply of weapons and military equipment to the west.
          Now the situation is almost hopeless. Correcting the situation with the development and production of weapons according to Putin is the allocation of new funds in addition to the already plundered ones. Instead of the old thief who is simply removed from the leadership and not brought to harsh responsibility, they put another, but also a thief (and they do not hold others, since everyone needs compromising information as a leverage, and honest people are not needed there because they are not controlled in this way) .
          The new thief-leader of the project understands that it is possible to steal, only you need to give at least the appearance of the result. Here are the results of this appearance and are described in the article.
          Quote: rolik
          There was an example already, as soon as Khodorkovsky was planted, immediately the fuel prices came to more normal values.
          Ho-o-o-rroshy example! Just classes! When did they put Khodorkovsky?
          In 2005. How much did the 95th liter cost then?

          106. Breeze, 03.10.2006/12/43 XNUMX:XNUMX
          Gentlemen, what about Tatneft? He refueled 95 twice on the Kaluga highway, not far from the congress with the trade union. In general, I was satisfied, and the price is acceptable. Now raised to 19.50, it was 19.20.
          19.20-19.50!At the most expensive gas station! How much is gas now to write to you or do you know? But Hodor sat and sits ... and he will sit. But for some reason, gasoline is getting more expensive and more expensive ...
          1. den.79
            den.79 2 June 2013 22: 01 New
            +2
            And it’s okay that he’s sitting, it makes no sense in his work. What benz, what solar fuel for money is growing incredibly (DFO-example). Why didn’t they rest the others? Here's a question for the spite of the day !!!
          2. gladysheff2010
            gladysheff2010 2 June 2013 23: 11 New
            -1
            And what does the president in the United States gather a team of traitors and political opponents? Think about what to write! Any measures can be taken only with a team of like-minded people, and then, maybe you personally know the person who alone can clean these Augean stables? This is not constructive, my friend !
            1. rolik
              rolik 3 June 2013 21: 30 New
              0
              But gas prices in 2004 and 2005, before Khodorkovsky’s landing, during and after her, we carefully look and compare.
              JUNE MONTH
              2004: AI95 - 113.9, AI92 - 115,5, AI76 - 121,7
              2005: AI95 - 100,2, AI92 - 100,1, AI76 - 121,7

              How do you care ??? Show me a man who has a car that won’t be surprised if the fuel drops by 21,7 rubles per liter. And how much you will save on refueling at the same time. Anyway, 21,7 rubles / liter, even 13,9 rubles is a very decent amount per liter of gasoline. If you do not notice this difference, you are a rich person.
              And what a striking coincidence)))) Simultaneously with the arrest and other procedural actions with Khodorkovsky, such a sharp drop in fuel prices.
          3. rolik
            rolik 3 June 2013 20: 56 New
            0
            Quote: Normal
            But for some reason, gasoline is getting more expensive and more expensive ...

            I was told that when they planted the Khodorkovsky gasoline fell sharply cheaper, how much time has passed since the landing ??? Do not remember, fear has the property of being forgotten. to consolidate the material, lessons must be repeated. And the inevitability of punishment is fixed in the Criminal Code, take and read it only carefully. In order to apply this norm. it’s not necessary to be personally committed to GDP. In our conditions, it is enough to have incriminating evidence on the power of those holding and financial means. Khodorkovsky had only one thing, money. But Chubais has both. After Ha Khodorkovsky, Gusinsky and the others should have been, they only faded, because they understood the hint perfectly. And do not carry nonsense, the whole thing is the application of the rule of law. If in our country the prosecutors and the courts were truly independent, fully protected, and punished with the highest degree of punishment. Believe me, a lot of interesting and famous characters from the world of big money and power would sit with Khodorkovsky.
        2. den.79
          den.79 2 June 2013 21: 56 New
          0
          Why do we need Siberia in general, were you there? Learn from the very beginning about her, and then talk.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. old man54
            old man54 3 June 2013 00: 00 New
            0
            And what about Siberia? What did you mean by this, is it not clear?
    2. dmit-xnumx
      dmit-xnumx 2 June 2013 18: 38 New
      +6
      Yes, no "political will" is needed - "every crime has a specific surname, name and patronymic" - just to fulfill their duties, and the supervising structures - the Law (preferably with the confiscation of all property, including close relatives). You will not believe it, but it’s not that it’s going to run! If "effective managers" are eliminated, then bish, clerks, professionals who are not afraid of responsibility will come to the levers of decision-making, because they know what they are doing.
      1. Dmitriy2009
        Dmitriy2009 2 June 2013 23: 58 New
        -1
        + To this, brush my forehead with green paint, that would be right.
        1. nickname 1 and 2
          nickname 1 and 2 3 June 2013 13: 02 New
          0
          Quote: Dmitriy2009
          + To this, brush my forehead with green paint, that would be right.


          I have a better idea: put a condom on my head. What for? And Schaub could see how bad we were.

          Think = steal, think - why somewhere didn’t shoot right away! Yes, they always stole everywhere! Yes, always and everywhere does not immediately shoot!

          That is why Kalashnikov is famous for his reliability, but not only his weapons all over the world.
  3. Truffoff
    Truffoff 2 June 2013 14: 09 New
    20
    What kind of alarmist writings? Are you wondering what you wanted from the defense industry, which was almost destroyed? Gave money and everything started to work? How about an ATM or something? This does not happen.
    It’s necessary to create the whole chain from the technical task and the project to painting and firing. CREATE AGAIN!
    They ate honestly, I was surprised how something worked there at all, it was invented, produced.
    I left one defense research institute in the 99th. For it was already dead.
    1. ramsi
      ramsi 2 June 2013 14: 19 New
      10
      do you think that absolutely incapable power (and this is at best!) will provide anything? ..
    2. Horde
      Horde 2 June 2013 14: 30 New
      +9
      Yes, the author would not have to list that everything is bad for us for some reason, and try to understand WHY this does not work?
      Over the years of democracy, science, education, vocational education, military education below critical limits have been destroyed, and the Defense Ministry is also "losing patience" when ships are being built slowly for some reason. And what kind of personnel are there? One crook, nepotism, bribery, who will put things in order? The laws of production do not work after the "laws of democracy" are applied to them. Instead of broadcasting how bad everything is with us, we would go to the St. Petersburg arms factories and talk to people there, why aren’t guns firing with people? and who is to blame for this, and what needs to be done for this, and we can all engage in criticism.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 2 June 2013 14: 33 New
        13
        Yes, where does science and so on? All these problems are easily solved. But under normal leadership.
        1. Truffoff
          Truffoff 2 June 2013 14: 37 New
          13
          Quote: Spade
          Yes, where does science and so on? All these problems are easily solved.

          I wonder how easy it is to solve. Tell me.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 2 June 2013 14: 39 New
            +6
            Learning. And the search for personnel. But for those who "master the allocated money" it is not necessary
            1. gladysheff2010
              gladysheff2010 2 June 2013 23: 19 New
              +1
              How old are you ready to train these cadres in order to recognize them as experienced enough. Yes and then, where is the training system that used to work like clockwork, everything was destroyed to please Western partners, but it didn’t start yesterday. Work and work again, restore bit by bit, and it takes a lot of time and money!
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 2 June 2013 23: 33 New
                +3
                All clear. The state must do everything. And for them to restore science, and give birth to experienced workers, and to buy new equipment for them.

                In the meantime, pay exorbitant money for a product in the best case of average quality. Because it’s not their fault that they somehow forgot in the pursuit of profits that they also need to feed workers

                Quote: gladysheff2010
                Work and work again, restore bit by bit, and it takes a lot of time and money!

                And what about the army? To be content with what they give, paying with their blood for the profits of "those who use the means"?
        2. Horde
          Horde 2 June 2013 15: 12 New
          +3
          Quote: Spade
          Yes, where does science and so on? All these problems are easily solved. But under normal leadership.


          science with? of course, and where does your research and development work to design an innovative tool with advanced characteristics, any metal construction plant with local craftsmen-mechanics can do it, and there’s more money to give, grandmothers are from oil, gas and let them make money because this is the main thing, but I won’t do it we in France will be buying at exorbitant prices, for ... uy. Dilettantism Shovels be ashamed.
          http://blog.fontanka.ru/posts/67334/
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 2 June 2013 16: 18 New
            +4
            Oh yeah, I forgot. And of course. The state is obliged to provide enterprises with money, specialists, a scientific base, and the business of enterprises is exclusively to "master the funds." That is, expenditures should be socialistically state-owned, and incomes should be capitalistically cut by the owners.

            That is, the principle of "privatization of income and nationalization of expenditures" (c) should remain the fundamental method of "doing business" in our state.
            1. Horde
              Horde 2 June 2013 17: 35 New
              +3
              Quote: Spade
              Shovels Today, 16: 18 ↑ New
              Oh yeah, I forgot. And of course. The state is obliged to provide enterprises with money, specialists, a scientific base, and the business of enterprises is exclusively to "master the funds."


              so I see the situation needs clarification
              you wrote, if I understood you correctly, that in order to create a product at an enterprise, it is not required to carry out scientific and design research, but it is generally stupid, or so "to carry out R&D, an enterprise needs to hire at different moments of its life - invite designers from outside, who would tackle the current problem, when there are no funding orders, then the scholarly brethren can be free? so what? But can it be so? scientific design schools, these are parish schools, and the collective in which knowledge is passed down from generation in generations and you cannot invite an outside specialist who could design a good promising gun, but you need to grow your own, and at the same time, it is impossible to break the connection between generations in any case. I say that the ties are broken, the specialists are gone, the school has collapsed, you say that the main thing is money and everything will be, NO WILL NOT. but it will be exactly as it is now, it is not built, does not shoot, does not float, and the money goes to no one knows where.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 2 June 2013 17: 58 New
                +4
                I wrote about the fact that managers from the defense industry are on a drum frame. They do not need skilled engineers, they do not need skilled workers. They do not attract them, they do not cook them. Because it increases overhead.

                The state went on to propose the following scheme: on state. funds in state educational institutions had to train specialists.
                Enterprises would have been minimally involved in this, they only had to provide specific requirements for specialists and provide them with practice, and then hiring. But the program did not work in most cases. Only a small number of enterprises were interested in this. This does not fit into the scheme of their “work” on “disbursement of funds”.

                Science, personnel, new machines and equipment - all this a second time. Primary is the control system in the defense industry complex, which does not work normally.
                1. Horde
                  Horde 2 June 2013 19: 44 New
                  +2
                  I wrote about the fact that managers from the defense industry are on a drum frame. They do not need skilled engineers, they do not need skilled workers.


                  it's Serdyukovschina, now I hope to get away from it

                  The state went on to propose the following scheme: on state. funds in state educational institutions had to train specialists.
                  Enterprises would participate in this minimally, they only had to provide specific requirements for specialists and provide them with practice, and then hiring


                  what nonsense? why do enterprises not need specialists? just the same. After Putin has become generous with his boots, the question of personnel is VERY ACUTE.

                  But the program did not work in most cases. Only a small number of enterprises were interested in this. This does not fit into the scheme of their “work” on “disbursement of funds”.


                  and what was, some kind of program? What exactly was there, who came up with? the first time I've heard.

                  Science, personnel, new machines and equipment - all this is secondary. Primary is the control system in the defense industry complex, which does not work normally.


                  science is secondary? so people can say that they do not fully understand what KNOWLEDGE is for mankind in general. Before talking nonsense Lopatov, trace a little the history of the development of science and the influence of science on human progress. That the state from time immemorial has been interested in qualified specialists and has always financed universities since the first Sorbon , University of Bologna and ending with the University. Lomonosov, what an impetus it was for the USSR and then you may understand that the decision of one person who is near the treasury and who makes a decision cannot give or not give, as you generally call all this "control system", be primary. Here they removed Storetkin, and at the very least the military-industrial complex has gone, but can you imagine if you remove Putin? what will happen and the country will rejoice?
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 2 June 2013 20: 22 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Horde
                    science say secondary? so people can say that they do not fully understand what KNOWLEDGE is for humanity in general.

                    And how are you going to turn this knowledge into a real product? Through dancing with a tambourine?

                    Quote: Horde
                    That the state has been interested in qualified specialists for centuries

                    Oh, state again. And how are effective managers? Why are they interested in specialists only in words, when they begin to make excuses for failures.
                    Why do some train specialists for themselves - metallurgists, aircraft manufacturers, petrochemists. And the state is obliged to do it for others. The first ones like, "didn't come out with a snout"?

                    Quote: Horde
                    and what was, some kind of program? What exactly was there, who came up with? the first time I've heard.

                    About six years ago. And they wrote a lot about it.
                    1. Horde
                      Horde 2 June 2013 20: 47 New
                      0
                      And how are you going to turn this knowledge into a real product? Through dancing with a tambourine?


                      somehow you quickly forgot that there was such a country as the USSR, that there was the MOST ADVANCED SCIENCE, AND THE MOST STRONG AND EFFECTIVE MIC. Why do you need to de-Stalinize the fool Medvedev? can return to proven methods of work that are REALLY, and not as they now bear fruit? And then democratization, de-Stalinization, liberalization
                      ia, and as a result of continuous PROFANATION. laughing

                      Oh, state again. And how are effective managers? Why are they interested in specialists only in words, when they begin to make excuses for failures.


                      and ineffective managers-thieves to the wall, you yourself say no sense from them.

                      Why do some train specialists for themselves - metallurgists, aircraft manufacturers, petrochemists. And the state is obliged to do it for others. The first ones like, "didn't come out with a snout"?


                      well, it’s great if they cook, just here you can recall the old disputes about the need for the labor market and of course the market for specialists, and this is the state’s responsibility.
                      1. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 2 June 2013 21: 12 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Horde
                        somehow you quickly forgot that there was such a country as the USSR, that there was the MOST ADVANCED SCIENCE, AND THE MOST STRONG AND EFFECTIVE MIC.

                        Good morning, we have 2013 in the yard. Live the realities.

                        Quote: Horde
                        and ineffective managers-thieves to the wall, you yourself say no sense from them.

                        The system should not depend on the personal qualities of individual managers.

                        Quote: Horde
                        well, it’s great if they cook, just here you can recall the old disputes about the need for the labor market and of course the market for specialists, and this is the state’s responsibility.

                        This is not the duty of the state. This is the responsibility of enterprise management.
                        The state is not able to provide this. A simple example - last year, a local techie graduated 21 specialists in CNC machine tools. Of these, three got specialty jobs. They have no experience. And therefore, firstly, it is not profitable for enterprises to retrain them, and secondly, they are offered penny salaries for the same reason. If the management of enterprises took care of their own personnel, they would have had strong specialists in five years (two years of training plus three in production), and in 10 virtuosos.
                        The state should train specialists for the service sector, small and medium-sized businesses. Everything else is exclusively with the involvement of enterprises. Otherwise, it is money down the drain.
                      2. Horde
                        Horde 2 June 2013 23: 14 New
                        +3
                        Good morning, we have 2013 in the yard. Live the realities.


                        there are not so many EFFICIENT ways to manage. First in our country, Stalin felt for it. After the war, the economy of the country developed UNEXPECTED TEMP. Despite the fact that half the country was in ruins. The newcomer Khrushchev stole it.
                        The USSR had a very effective management system that was streamlined and aimed at the final product, as a result, our military equipment was the best.
                        The arrival of centrifugal perestroika processes swept away a well-functioning machine. So, SUCH ACHIEVEMENTS do not rush, they should be studied as of the current moment and applied without liberoids screaming. Russia, then in the field of governance, these people during the years of democracy could NOT offer ANYTHING. And they will not be able to.
                        This is not the duty of the state. This is the responsibility of enterprise management.
                        The state is not able to provide this


                        Well, then why is there such a surplus of specialists in management areas now? that the state will not limit the senseless assembly line of stamping endless economists, lawyers, political strategists and other currently useless specialists. But when the question of replacing outdated engineering personnel arises, the far-fetched question arises - "is it necessary?"
                        A simple example - last year, a local techie graduated 21 specialists in CNC machine tools. Of these, three got specialty jobs. They have no experience. And therefore, firstly, it is not profitable for enterprises to retrain them, and secondly, they are offered penny salaries for the same reason

                        I am completely unfamiliar with the background of this history. If, what kind of "techie" is a technical school or what? produces more specialists than there are units of CNC machines in a given city, then this alignment of events seems dubious to me because now every enterprise, like the sun in the sky, is visible from all sides and it is the future young worker who must ask where he will go next after studying, or purchase to the specialty of a CNC operator, the specialty of a lathe operator, say with such knowledge, now you can not get lost.
                        The state should train specialists for the service sector, small and medium-sized businesses.


                        but I think on the contrary, if the medium-sized business is all private, then start accounting courses and prepare the business for your own.
                      3. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 2 June 2013 23: 51 New
                        0
                        Quote: Horde
                        The first in our country that Stalin felt for after the war, the country's economy developed at an unprecedented rate, despite the fact that half the country was in ruins.

                        Once again, on the calendar 2013

                        Quote: Horde
                        Well then, why now is there such an overabundance of specialists in management areas?

                        Where? Do you think that lawyers and accountants are "specialists in management areas?"

                        Quote: Horde
                        that the state will not limit the senseless conveyor belt of endless economists, lawyers, political strategists, and other specialists that are currently useless.

                        Yeah, and right after that "effective managers" remember that they need staff? It's hard to believe somehow.

                        Quote: Horde
                        produces more specialists than there are units of CNC machines in this city

                        And is the state obliged to do this too?

                        Quote: Horde
                        and it is the future young worker who must ask where he will go further after studying

                        That is, everyone is to blame, anyone - Moscow, local authorities, school graduates ... But just not those who "master the means."
                        The "young worker" doesn't care, he goes with this diploma to sales consultants and gets a much more decent salary.

                        Quote: Horde
                        but I think on the contrary, if the medium-sized business is all private, then start accounting courses and prepare the business for your own.

                        If the local authorities, from whose budget money goes for education, give free rein, then they will only train specialists for small and medium-sized businesses. Because they pay taxes on the spot. And large enterprises, in their absolute majority, are in Moscow.
                      4. Horde
                        Horde 3 June 2013 00: 26 New
                        +1
                        Once again, on the calendar 2013


                        do not repeat - this is not a sign of the mind
                        methods of managing the state and the economy beyond time, class, national and other affiliations and for all of them are the same methods, so use the achievements of previous generations of our people and which winners are necessary. And they will come to this sooner or later. If you are unshakable principle of private property, I remind you that under Stalin there were much more forms of ownership than at the end of the 80s.

                        Where? Do you think that lawyers and accountants are "specialists in management areas?"


                        Well, who do you think the astronauts are?
                        Lawyers are now running the firms, and they are only thinking about how to get around taxes.

                        Yeah, and right after that "effective managers" remember that they need staff? It's hard to believe somehow.


                        Now I don’t see a single state issue of education, civilian or military, a systematic approach is all at all.

                        And is the state obliged to do this too?


                        Are you asking me this? the state should at least coordinate the supply and demand for specialists.

                        That is, everyone is to blame, anyone - Moscow, local authorities, school graduates ... But just not those who "master the means."
                        The "young worker" doesn't care, he goes with this diploma to sales consultants and gets a much more decent salary.

                        Putin is the one who instigated such corruption to blame the most.

                        If the local authorities, from whose budget money goes for education, give free rein, then they will only train specialists for small and medium-sized businesses. Because they pay taxes on the spot. And large enterprises, in their absolute majority, are in Moscow.


                        these are already issues to be solved smile
                      5. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 3 June 2013 00: 49 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Horde
                        do not repeat - this is not a sign of the mind

                        A sign of the mind - parrot repetitions of how good it was under Stalin? But in Germany it was not. And in Japan. And in South Korea. But bad luck, they have reached great heights and without the "father of nations"

                        Quote: Horde
                        Well, who do you think the astronauts are?

                        No, these are lawyers and economists. They have nothing to do with management.

                        Quote: Horde
                        Now I don’t see a single state issue of education, civilian or military, a systematic approach is all at all.

                        And as soon as the state limits the output of lawyers and economists, everything will return to normal

                        Quote: Horde
                        Are you asking me this? the state should at least coordinate the supply and demand for specialists.

                        And who to ask? After all, you are a fan of shifting all expenditure items to the state.

                        Quote: Horde
                        Putin is the one who instigated such corruption to blame the most.

                        Where is the corruption here? "Effective managers", like you, believe that the state is obliged to solve all their problems at its own expense. Including in the personnel sector. So that they can make profit without being distracted.
                        So everything is fair and legal. It's just that they are used to shifting government spending. A kind of semi-socialism.

                        Quote: Horde
                        these are already issues to be solved

                        I mean, will small and medium taxes be paid in Moscow, or will they be so squeezed that enterprises simply close up, leaving regions without a tax base at all?
                      6. Horde
                        Horde 3 June 2013 07: 44 New
                        +1
                        A sign of the mind - parrot repetitions of how good it was under Stalin? But in Germany it was not. And in Japan. And in South Korea. But bad luck, they have reached great heights and without the "father of nations"


                        you probably should know why post-war Germany rose so quickly, can the aid of America be heard from the marshal’s plan? In short, they poured finance into Germany, but no one helped the USSR, of course, and nevertheless rose. Is there a difference? In addition, about the Japs, I already wrote who was an example of housekeeping for them.

                        No, these are lawyers and economists. They have nothing to do with management.

                        Putin even know who? Candidate of ECONOMIC sciences, and say economists do not control.

                        Where is the corruption here? "Effective managers", like you, believe that the state is obliged to solve all their problems at its own expense.


                        Have you forgotten what this is about? and we are talking about bad guns about spent funds and low-quality products, this is an economic crime i.e. corruption. And maybe not even economic, but just a crime.
                      7. vyatom
                        vyatom 3 June 2013 11: 33 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Horde
                        A sign of the mind - parrot repetitions of how good it was under Stalin? But in Germany it was not. And in Japan. And in South Korea. But bad luck, they have reached great heights and without the "father of nations"


                        I completely agree. And we need to achieve growth without the fathers of nations, including the present.
                      8. Horde
                        Horde 3 June 2013 22: 31 New
                        0
                        Quote: vyatom
                        I completely agree. And we need to achieve growth without the fathers of nations, including the present.


                        Is that all you read? not much laughing
  4. Gregazov
    Gregazov 2 June 2013 21: 43 New
    +1
    It’s also good to harness a horse (science) from the back of the cart. Let him not think that she is the main one, and we can do without her.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 2 June 2013 23: 08 New
      +1
      Actually, here the horse is not a science, but a control system.
    2. Horde
      Horde 2 June 2013 23: 20 New
      0
      fool
      Quote: GregAzov
      It’s also good to harness a horse (science) from the back of the cart. Let him not think that she is the main one, and we can do without her.


      I don't feel like responding to stupidity
  • Krilion
    Krilion 2 June 2013 14: 39 New
    17
    Quote: Truffoff
    What kind of alarmist writings? Are you wondering what you wanted from the defense industry, which was almost destroyed? Gave money and everything started to work? How about an ATM or something? This does not happen.


    Do you even think what you are writing? .. What kind of panic is there when a citizen by the name of Putin has been in power for almost 20 years, and no radical changes for the better have been observed ... everything is being done so leisurely and, as the author correctly noted, it’s meditative, that with such a speed of work in 100 years only the first results can appear ... from the gobbler only the correct words are spoken, but in reality - as there was devastation and total theft, it remains ... and I feel, while in stadiums in droves they will not start shooting thieves-officials - the situation is generally unlikely to improve ...
    1. Truffoff
      Truffoff 2 June 2013 14: 52 New
      +2
      Quote: Krilion
      as there was devastation and total theft, it remained

      And to tell where the total theft came from in the defense industry?
      After the collapse of the USSR, when the defense industry only survived, those directors who could sell something, knock it out, steal, negotiate, come up with a scheme were valued. Otherwise, you won’t go around like a frying pan, your khan’s enterprise. It was everywhere, all over the former To the union. Fight for survival. As a result, over these LONG years of collapse quite stable schemes, channels, methods, and worldview have developed. That is: first I provide for myself, then the enterprise, THEN the state. Of course, you can transplant everyone, but I'm afraid no one will work.
    2. fisherman
      fisherman 2 June 2013 16: 00 New
      0
      so Putin has ruled since 1993 or what? :)

      "as there was devastation and total theft, it remained so ..." - but I agree with this ...
    3. pint45
      pint45 2 June 2013 18: 18 New
      0
      Right thoughts.
  • Atrix
    Atrix 2 June 2013 15: 21 New
    20
    Quote: Truffoff
    Are you wondering what you wanted from the defense industry, which was almost destroyed? Gave money and everything started to work? How about an ATM or something? This does not happen.
    It’s necessary to create the whole chain from the technical task and the project to painting and firing. CREATE AGAIN!

    How long can you create "AGAIN"? Putin has been in power for 13 years. How much longer do we need to wait for the restoration of the country, maybe we still need to wait 100 years? The USSR launched the first satellite 12 years after the war, and 4 years later launched a man into space. What else is Russia missing? Eat natural resources, even a booty, not one country has such wealth, oil and gas are more expensive than ever, money comes in billions. Look at the same Japan or South Korea, Germany, there are no resources, and the level of technological development that I don't even want to talk about Russia. How much can you whine about the collapsed USSR and the remnants of Russia. The USSR after World War II was also in ruins, and even worse, Japan, Germany were completely in ruins, and now they are one of the most developed countries, and mind you there were no such resources as in Russia.
    So it’s enough to justify the incompetent authority from the president to the director of the plant that time is short. For 13 years, you can build new plants from scratch. And if there is not enough time, then let them go, and do not hold on to their places until the grave, maybe those who will work better for the good of the country will come.
    1. Truffoff
      Truffoff 2 June 2013 15: 30 New
      +6
      Quote: Atrix
      The USSR 12 years after the war launched the first satellite 4 years later launched a man into space.


      In the USSR there was communism. The people who won the war. People, and instead of a heart a fiery motor. Now democracy. The goals are vague, vague. Half the country to the left, half the country to the right.
      Now capitalism. The main thing is to provide for yourself. And the state is in last place.
      Now businessmen. What is most important for a businessman? SNATCH.
      What actually happens.
      1. Atrix
        Atrix 2 June 2013 15: 47 New
        +8
        Quote: Truffoff
        Quote: Atrix
        The USSR 12 years after the war launched the first satellite 4 years later launched a man into space.


        In the USSR there was communism. The people who won the war. People, and instead of a heart a fiery motor. Now democracy. The goals are vague, vague. Half the country to the left, half the country to the right.
        Now capitalism. The main thing is to provide for yourself. And the state is in last place.
        Now businessmen. What is most important for a businessman? SNATCH.
        What actually happens.

        Germany, Japan, South Korea are also capitalism and these countries were also destroyed by wars. And somehow they manage to develop without natural resources. Maybe people are just not the ones? Why the Slavs are always looking for someone else guilty of their troubles, there are many countries where things were even worse and there were no such resources and such a base as remained in Russia after the USSR. And these countries are now cross-developing.
        Even the USA where wild capitalism but billionaires donate money for the development of their country, hundreds of private foundations for the development of science and education. Why are our people not capable of this? Our billionaires, in addition to stealing and buying football clubs and yachts, are no longer capable of anything.
        Something is wrong in the last 20-30 years with the Russian people.
        1. Truffoff
          Truffoff 2 June 2013 15: 53 New
          -3
          Quote: Atrix
          Our billionaires, in addition to stealing and buying football clubs and yachts, are no longer capable of anything.
          Something is wrong with the Russian people in the last 20-30 years

          Everything is fine. Everybody is fighting to become billionaires.
          All at once. Once you deal with trifles and state concerns.
          Can a Russian person finally think about his own wealth7
          While capitalism must be used.
        2. fisherman
          fisherman 2 June 2013 16: 18 New
          0
          all these countries had their own era of "wild capitalism" ...
          1. Blackgrifon
            Blackgrifon 2 June 2013 17: 33 New
            -2
            "all these countries had their own era of" wild capitalism "..." - it was, but they quickly recovered after it and even after defeats in world wars (Germany, France, China), and as we overthrew the tsar, so far we cannot even crawl to many indicators of economic growth of the Russian Empire.
        3. karate
          karate 2 June 2013 17: 13 New
          +5
          What does the Russian people have to do with it? There is no Russian government, and among the oligarchs, it does not smell of Russian spirit.
          1. old man54
            old man54 3 June 2013 00: 15 New
            0
            Well, GDP is really Russian, why are you ud! :)) and so ... mainly Jews of course!
        4. Dmitriy2009
          Dmitriy2009 2 June 2013 23: 46 New
          -3
          you are a bumblebee, before you bumblebut take an interest in funds in Russia, and who donates how much, and where. And you yourself can take part, and not nod at someone, get to the nearest graveyard, take an interest, maybe they collect toys, clothes for orphanages there, otherwise you have gorlopans divorced, are you dressed in honey that has honey? An example to follow ? If so, then p ... go there.
          1. Dmitriy2009
            Dmitriy2009 3 June 2013 03: 19 New
            -2
            What did the bedding not like in this post? What advised to go to the monastery? Well, yes, they are all accustomed to refer to Satan.
        5. Dmitriy2009
          Dmitriy2009 3 June 2013 05: 09 New
          -2
          Admins where you look - incitement of interethnic hatred Article 282 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation, they say that "the Slavs are always looking for those responsible for their troubles" I am a Slav, this form of address makes me nervous, to put it mildly. Delete this post.
      2. Blackgrifon
        Blackgrifon 2 June 2013 17: 31 New
        +1
        "There was communism in the USSR. The people who won the war. People, and instead of a heart, a fiery motor. Democracy is now. Goals are vague, vague. Half the country to the left, half the country to the right.
        Now capitalism. The main thing is to provide for yourself. And the state is in last place.
        Now businessmen. What is most important for a businessman? SNATCH.
        What is actually happening. "- the USSR had an IDEA, and now in Russia there is no idiology. In the Russian Empire there was" Tsar, Vera, People ", in the USSR -" Communism ", but what do we have now?

        "Now businessmen. What is the main thing for a businessman? - do not confuse the grabbers who were in the 90s, even now there are normal entrepreneurs. I know a lot of people who honestly develop their business (small or medium).
        1. Larus
          Larus 2 June 2013 17: 40 New
          +1
          Question: Is it possible to honestly develop business in our country?
          1. aleksandroff
            aleksandroff 2 June 2013 22: 41 New
            0
            I am BUSINESSMAN and I will say that you can work honestly and not be afraid. and businessmen are mostly not thieves, do not confuse the 90s. I have friends with former bandits, and now businessmen. they are shy now of their past and lead a normal, honest lifestyle and business. and whoever says so was not in business and people envy above all else. everyone just tries to steal, and thieves themselves are worse in their souls, only there is nothing to steal. need to work! this is not enough for us. it’s hard to find a working normal person (I know by no means by heart), and it’s not Putin who is to blame, but our Russian laziness, greed and envy. the Bible says that all troubles are from envy.
        2. Truffoff
          Truffoff 2 June 2013 17: 45 New
          0
          Quote: Blackgrifon
          I know a lot of people who honestly develop their business (small or medium).

          The main thing for a businessman of small and medium size is to become big, then put his man in power, or go there himself. And here adult games already begin.
          And honestly it’s hard to get out, almost unreal. Ask your friends.
      3. old man54
        old man54 3 June 2013 00: 13 New
        0
        there was no communism in the USSR, why are you eating every heresy!
      4. True
        True 3 June 2013 09: 58 New
        +1
        The USSR was an independent state!
    2. Dmitriy2009
      Dmitriy2009 2 June 2013 23: 50 New
      -1
      The defining word is MAY.
      as in that fable:
      Yes maybe
      or maybe not
      it may rain
      maybe snow
    3. Dmitriy2009
      Dmitriy2009 3 June 2013 04: 39 New
      0
      What a competent economist you are. Have to build factories from scratch? You know there is such a specialty technologist, well, you as a major specialist, how not to know. So the institute of technologists was completely destroyed, in many industries it is necessary to collect information bit by bit. And I am collecting because, yes, because I am building. And what have you done for your homeland? As I drive through the cities, I see a building, and I know how it is arranged, how floor slabs lie, how engineering systems work, and this is not in one city but throughout Russia. But YOU have done for your Homeland. I left my mark;).
  • The comment was deleted.
  • fenix57
    fenix57 2 June 2013 14: 14 New
    0
    Quote: svp67
    show political will to our leadership ...

    Only as a man in the street, subjectively: to the leadership to show the WILL to admit that worse is impossible - "they don't let coca go!"
  • Interface
    Interface 2 June 2013 14: 17 New
    +1
    In any case, this is all better than nothing, the main thing is that the factories are not idle at least. The Baltic fleet is smaller than the Polish one ..... "dear" Leonid Ilyich has already turned over in his grave, and Ustinov too ...
    Let's hope that under Shmakov the situation will change.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Interface
      Interface 2 June 2013 14: 27 New
      +2
      Another thing outraged:
      Further, according to the Minister of Industry and Trade, Dmitry Manturov, the state corporation will be able to transfer part of the work on late orders to foreign subcontractors.


      WHAT'S THIS? WE NOW ALL YOUR OWN SHIPS FROM THE FROM WE WILL BUILD? Manturova - in retirement! ANOTHER LIBERAL FROM A BEAR OFFICE. AND YOURSELF TO PRODUCE PRODUCTION, WEAKLY YES?
      AND HE IS ALSO THE MINISTER OF INDUSTRY AND TRADE! YES IT IS NECESSARY TO UHF; LET TANKS DO OR TO THE MARKET, TO DEVELOP TRADE ...
    3. Truffoff
      Truffoff 2 June 2013 14: 30 New
      +3
      At least now, professors are not hiding bottles from the beer they have drunk, so that they can donate it later. No queues for computers. Do not dream of dumping, even in Zimbabwe, if only from here. They don’t tear paper from the printer from each other, so that they could then print out their works and send them to the good uncle Soros in America. He promised to give a little money for the best works.
      It was. Shame on the Russian Federation. And pay for it first.
      1. avt
        avt 2 June 2013 14: 50 New
        +1
        Quote: Truffoff
        Shame on the Russian Federation.

        PMA I know, EBN I know. But who is the Russian Federation? Do not tell me the full name and position of this character which, for brevity, was called the RFom? And then I am a dense person and always believed that specific personalities are responsible for specific cases. Probably behind the times, now it’s all the time to blame, the government is finally possible and naturally Stalin. laughing But here they introduced a new character - the Russian Federation, and who he is request do not speak .
        1. Truffoff
          Truffoff 2 June 2013 15: 01 New
          +1
          Quote: avt
          PMA I know, EBN I know. But who is the Russian Federation?

          Rafik Fayzullin. laughing
          1. avt
            avt 2 June 2013 19: 40 New
            0
            Quote: Truffoff
            Rafik Fayzullin

            Quote: Truffoff
            And pay for it first.

            And, now I realized, this is like another divorce for money ala Mavrodi or Grabava. Carry the money of the Pinocchio for the Russian Federation must pay off the professors. laughing Well, will you indicate the account number and will you distribute the funds? Well, like, they kept records of whoever pulled paper and began to know exactly who and how much.
            1. Truffoff
              Truffoff 2 June 2013 20: 10 New
              +3
              I am talking about the moral duty of the state to the nation for the shame and shame that had to endure in the 90s. To be honest, the neoplasm called the RF does not cause a single drop of respect. One word is bourgeois capitalism.
              1. avt
                avt 2 June 2013 20: 48 New
                0
                Quote: Truffoff
                To be honest, the neoplasm called the RF does not cause a single drop of respect.

                Well, this is not news, I already heard that. Previously, it was a totalitarian "scoop", which also did not arouse a drop of respect among many, now here is a "rash", which again does not command respect. Normal, stability is a sign of skill. laughing
                Quote: Truffoff
                the moral debt of the state to the nation

                Especially when the nation is separate from the state. It’s convenient to burn with righteous anger towards a certain impersonal state. I then thought it a sinful thing that the nation and the state were inextricable things, but I was very mistaken to see. laughing But he is capitalism, bourgeois and thieves, moreover, and there is really no special respect here either.
                1. Truffoff
                  Truffoff 3 June 2013 04: 35 New
                  0
                  I am one of the mastodons of the USSR. For us, bourgeois and capitalists have always been class enemies. And now what to do for them? Unfortunately, this contradicts the inner ideology of man in our era. They give us money, we return heaps of "reports, plans, unsubscriptions, plans" to them. And it just so happened that the practical result of such an exchange of "papers" does not meet your expectations. Something that we steal is sacred. It is difficult to outplay us in "paper exchange", it is useless to scold. And the Russian Federation itself has only to wait until the generation of "science" raised on the values ​​of capitalism will grow up. For us, "mastodons", money is dust, we plowed for an IDEA. And ideas-TY. Accordingly and work-TY. request
                  1. vyatom
                    vyatom 3 June 2013 11: 56 New
                    0
                    Quote: Truffoff
                    one of the mastodons of the USSR. For us, bourgeois and capitalists have always been class enemies. And now what to do for them? Unfortunately, this contradicts the inner ideology of man in our era. They give us money, we return heaps of "reports, plans, unsubscriptions, plans" to them. And it just so happened that the practical result of such an exchange of "papers" does not meet your expectations. Something that we steal is sacred. It is difficult to outplay us in "paper exchange", it is useless to scold. And the Russian Federation itself has only to wait until the generation of "science" raised on the values ​​of capitalism will grow up. For us, "mastodons", money is dust, we plowed for an IDEA. And ideas-TY. Accordingly and work-TY.

                    Foolish, comrade. I have known such "IDEAL" ones. I made repairs with friends. Hands are clearly growing out of the ass. But he considers himself to be the working class and walks with Lenin and Che Givara on a T-shirt. Of course, you cannot build a bright future with such people.
                    1. Truffoff
                      Truffoff 3 June 2013 15: 00 New
                      -1
                      Quote: vyatom
                      Foolish, comrade. I have known such "IDEAL" ones. I made repairs with friends. Hands are clearly growing out of the ass. But he considers himself to be the working class and walks with Lenin and Che Givara on a T-shirt. Of course, you cannot build a bright future with such people.

                      Never build laughing , and without us and with us. Moreover, we will bury your bright capitalist future. The bourgeois are dicky.
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 2 June 2013 14: 20 New
      +1
      Troll, dear?
      1. Mr.M
        Mr.M 2 June 2013 14: 25 New
        +2
        I am afraid that this comrade faithfully believes in what he is saying.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 2 June 2013 14: 30 New
          0
          Well, not really, it is inadequate. Trollite.
        2. Belogor
          Belogor 2 June 2013 14: 31 New
          +1
          he does not believe; he is a troll; he fulfills the order. By the way, some kind of publication with a darling.
        3. Imperial
          Imperial 2 June 2013 15: 27 New
          +2
          Quote: Mr.M
          I am afraid that this comrade faithfully believes in what he is saying.

          Such people have no faith, honor and conscience, only a hypertrophied ego.
      2. avt
        avt 2 June 2013 14: 44 New
        +8
        Quote: Adequate
        After all this, sometimes you think, but it would be nice if the Russian Federation ceased to exist along with the German Reich and the Great Japanese Empire. Or at least it would fall under occupation. Perhaps the new regime would make it a civilized country.

        Quote: Spade
        Troll, dear?

        Well, my friend! Where did you find that respected? Is the liberoid quite aroused and the desire to correspond with it?
    2. Gecko
      Gecko 2 June 2013 14: 43 New
      +3
      inadequate. Who are you? Let's goodbye!
    3. aleksandroff
      aleksandroff 2 June 2013 14: 43 New
      +3
      adequate - you are not adequate!
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. kartalovkolya
      kartalovkolya 2 June 2013 14: 50 New
      +3
      Or maybe it would be better if your Komilts from US moved the bots. And then there was no need to think about defense!
    6. Ivanovich47
      Ivanovich47 2 June 2013 14: 52 New
      +3
      By occupation, you mean: USA.
    7. kartalovkolya
      kartalovkolya 2 June 2013 14: 55 New
      +2
      Well, you and your breadwinners from the US were cattle! If you moved the bots together at once and you wouldn’t have to think about defense. And everything that our chubayats did with the filing of your amers will still be considered in a popular court. I think there’s a place in the cage and for such as adequate (with no prefix).
    8. Rattenfanger
      Rattenfanger 2 June 2013 15: 00 New
      +2
      Your statement is caused by an open hostility towards representatives of the gay community in Russia in general, and among visitors to this resource in particular, do I put it?
    9. The comment was deleted.
  • Avenger711
    Avenger711 2 June 2013 14: 21 New
    +1
    And nothing that this very aircraft carrier was made exactly as the Indians ordered and according to their payment, and then something flew that was not included in the repair and this is generally typical when local "specialists" produced and operated equipment so that after the proceedings India shut up?
    In general, another diversion.
    1. rolik
      rolik 2 June 2013 14: 44 New
      11
      Quote: Avenger711
      In general, another diversion.

      According to Vikaramidier, this is a separate song)))) The Indians wanted a spaceship, and they gave money for tow))))) And in order to take at least this order, our then leadership caved in under the effective Moscow managers. It was necessary to report to the president about at least some kind of joyful event. Well, they reported, Moscow forgot ours, and we ended up in a deep financial life. The enterprise gained credits, the contract had to be fulfilled, and so it was fulfilled accordingly. Never before has there been such a pressure on our unit. We do not accept the material, but the "general" gives a resolution to accept it for use. They carried out tests, th ... but the material - but the "general" said and put this material. We felt very uncomfortable then. Well, then the general was removed, state aid came. In general, it became easier, but now how to pay off loans is a question. Let the financial caveat, our workshop has other tasks))))))
  • Mr.M
    Mr.M 2 June 2013 14: 22 New
    14
    Cases of disrupting defense of orders and corruption in the defense industry complex should be considered by military courts, and here I see the death penalty as appropriate. This is not too much, it is a matter of national security.

    P.S. Well, or at least the issuance of lifelong health trips to the north and to uranium mines)
    1. a
      a 2 June 2013 17: 35 New
      +1
      Quote: Mr.M
      Cases of disrupting defense of orders and corruption in the defense industry complex should be considered by military courts, and here I see the death penalty as appropriate. This is not too much, it is a matter of national security.

      P.S. Well, or at least the issuance of lifelong health trips to the north and to uranium mines)


      Ha. But who will judge that? who to plant? our power? so it’s her own fault that we have everything through one place. should she plant or shoot herself?
      1. rolik
        rolik 2 June 2013 19: 45 New
        +2
        Quote: uno
        Ha. But who will judge that? who to plant?

        If you recognize that the liberal values ​​that we planted throughout the 90s and early 2000s are harmful to the state. If they send to..er Europe and other civilizers with their tolerance and bring the laws to the required realities for our country. Believe me, very soon all orders will be executed on time, the industry will go forward dramatically, we will forget about homeless kids, and pensioners will get a decent old age. For this, a lot is unnecessary, for a start, write a couple of points in the constitution. Which was done under EBNe and dictated by kikh advisers.
  • Lopatov
    Lopatov 2 June 2013 14: 24 New
    +5
    It seems that the defense industry has set the wrong priorities. The main purpose is by no means "assimilation of funds", but the production of weapons. Qualitatively and on time.
    The main problem is the control system
  • The comment was deleted.
  • My address
    My address 2 June 2013 14: 32 New
    11
    And why is Serdyukov, the five-year minister of disarmament of the Russian Federation, all free? Swap it with patriot Kvachkov, let him taste the "delights" of the zone.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 2 June 2013 14: 36 New
      +6
      Because Serdyukov is just a performer. And in court, he will not be silent, covering his superiors.
      1. a
        a 2 June 2013 17: 37 New
        +4
        Quote: Spade
        And in court, he will not be silent, covering his superiors.


        I think the case will not come to court. They do not surrender theirs. otherwise, he and his son-in-law would have been polishing the benches of the Lefortovo chamber long ago.
        and if it comes to trial, it will be silent. because if he starts talking, he will be khan.
  • andrei332809
    andrei332809 2 June 2013 14: 38 New
    +1
    greed of bureaucrats from defense and defense industry. And yet, the whole defense of the old mammoths (designers) was left once or twice and miscalculated, but as they teach in our time in institutes, I guess you guess. So it is not surprising that the products often have to be finalized.
    here, in my opinion, the main reasons that after one or two good news they put us on xNUMX, don't relax, they beat me
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. aleksandroff
      aleksandroff 2 June 2013 14: 49 New
      +4
      in the 90s already passed. we still won't get up after their "help". and judging by the article we will not get rid of it at all. God forbid Putin to get rid of such "adequate" prompts.
      1. Truffoff
        Truffoff 2 June 2013 14: 56 New
        11
        Quote: Adequate
        In fact, Russia has a way out for this situation. You just need to give the production to subcontractors in the USA, Western Europe, Japan. They will do it quickly and efficiently. Many countries do this. Singapore, for example. In the end, the legendary cruiser "Varyag" was built in Philadelphia

        Fuck, shut it up somebody. I don't have enough minuses.
    2. kartalovkolya
      kartalovkolya 2 June 2013 15: 01 New
      +6
      Yes, there is a way out - traitors and all sorts of singing along adequate ON THE REY.
    3. fisherman
      fisherman 2 June 2013 16: 09 New
      +5
      Varangian became legendary because there were Russian sailors on it ...

      not American or French ...
    4. Dmitriy2009
      Dmitriy2009 2 June 2013 16: 34 New
      0
      On the ? Where are your owners to buy tadpoles for Afghanistan?
  • Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 2 June 2013 14: 45 New
    -3
    This article is a balm for the wounds of our Western "partners". They probably rejoice, clap their hands. I read and "understood" the Russian fleet "kirdyk". I don't like such gloomy articles. Even children know that they steal in Russia. Indeed, they would steal less, build the fleet faster. But this is not the main point. The author (with tears in his eyes) compares the composition of the fleet of the USSR and Russia. Why cheat people? Is it possible to compare the military industry of the USSR, where all the factories worked for defense, and the capabilities of the military-industrial complex of Russia? Of course not. Russia builds as much as can... Russia will never restore the power of the Soviet Navy. And there is nothing to shed crocodile tears in those days! Times have come. And Russia will always be a great sea power. They stole b ... less.
    1. poquello
      poquello 2 June 2013 15: 09 New
      +1
      "This article is a balm for the wounds of our western" partners "
      So they wrote it.
    2. TRex
      TRex 2 June 2013 15: 47 New
      +7
      Ivanitch! The article completely adequately covers the state of affairs in the Navy. A generation of half-educated people, managers, traders, potential traitors has grown up. Your words: "Russia will always be a great maritime power" will come true only when we all get a good kick in the ass, scratch our turnips and begin to deal with the Motherland, and not drool looking at the "Chesslovo" on the TV screen. We need a shake-up, self-cleaning of society. Otherwise, in ten to twenty years we will have, as in Geyrope ...
  • ded
    ded 2 June 2013 14: 46 New
    +6
    The article is just super! The author is well done, simply and clearly described the state of affairs in the Russian defense industry.
    Tired of reading our "hurray-idiots" who only say that "our trains are the most train trains in the world. "
    Very surprised by the rating of the article. Thought zamusunut in the trash!
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. aleksandroff
      aleksandroff 2 June 2013 14: 54 New
      0
      and I’m tired of exaggerated articles such as these, where everything is bad, even if you lie alive in the grave, but you turn around and want to live — everyone lives and enjoys around. and the article doesn’t seem like a Russian spirit to me.
    3. Dmitriy2009
      Dmitriy2009 3 June 2013 03: 17 New
      -4
      if you had a grandfather, what kind of grandfather you were ... you should have a mind like old age, would have registered under the Russian flag, and so ......... - zilch. Your cheers - the patriots are fighting against your dad, do not go to Russia. My those are good advice.
  • Adequate
    Adequate 2 June 2013 14: 50 New
    -6
    Marx also said "the level of military shipbuilding reflects the general level of development of the country."
    1. aleksandroff
      aleksandroff 2 June 2013 15: 01 New
      +1
      Marx said a lot of things, we still can't clean up. and the level of development of the country shows the general construction - houses, bridges, and so on. in the 90s they did not build at all and lived like that, now the country is rising (after the foreign "specialists" of the hints were kicked out in the ass) and it is clear that we are building a lot. I see for example, but you can't prove it to myopic ones.
    2. family tree
      family tree 2 June 2013 15: 42 New
      +1
      Quote: Adequate
      Marx also said "the level of military shipbuilding reflects the general level of development of the country."

      Where, when, under what circumstances? Were there any witnesses to this conversation? Who! In general, take a pen, paper and write. Write everything, Everything that you remember. yes
      1. family tree
        family tree 2 June 2013 16: 19 New
        +1
        Quote: perepilka
        Write everything, Everything that you remember. yes

        Yes, I almost forgot, don’t think of inventing, we’ll check everything bully
  • Rattenfanger
    Rattenfanger 2 June 2013 14: 57 New
    +4
    Everything is gone, chef! Everything is gone! (S)

    On the topic: the construction of the fleet in terms of science intensity and financial costs is an extremely arduous task, and I think that there are no doubts that we are building it from scratch.
    On the one hand, the operation of ships of two types of the same class is not gut in terms of maintenance and repair. But ships are needed today, and Project 22350 is completely new, which causes quite objective problems. Plus, horizontal links in the production infrastructure (contractors, subcontractors, etc.) have been destroyed. Many enterprises have been banally closed. The watchdogs of the 11356 M / R project were built according to the knurled, as they say. organizational issues and a number of "childhood diseases" managed to be solved without starting the bookmark. The frigates are the newest, let me remind you.
    As for the "stuffing": at the end of December 2012, the AU-190 art installation passed, fully satisfying all the stated requirements, acceptance tests.
    At the same time, in 2012, the Redoubt air defense system showed on practical tests the probability of hitting a cruise missile-70%, an aircraft-80%.
    Despite the fact that all this in the form of a project appeared on paper in the 90s, in fact, work on the AU-190 and Redoubt has been underway only recently.
    This is not a slingshot or a spear. It is the latest, high-tech weapon, the creation of which in any country does not go without roughness.
  • minimum
    minimum 2 June 2013 14: 59 New
    -6
    I do not see any other option than to include Western manufacturers in the state order. It is clear that this decision has a lot of minuses, they are on the surface, but a government order until 2020 will inevitably fail in such a way. I don’t even stutter about the epic projects of aircraft carriers and destroyers, against the background of the current sadness, such projects look just like a fantasy. We need to rearm and IMHO should step on the throat of our own pride and connect foreigners within reasonable limits. Of course with due control and caution.
    1. aviamed90
      aviamed90 2 June 2013 15: 30 New
      +2
      minimum

      From the Decree of the President of the Russian Federation of February 5, 2010 N 146 "On the Military Doctrine of the Russian Federation":

      45. The main task of the development of the military-industrial complex is to ensure its effective functioning as a high-tech multidisciplinary sector of the country's economy, capable of meeting the needs of the Armed Forces and other troops in modern weapons, military and special equipment and ensuring the strategic presence of the Russian Federation in the world markets of high-tech products and services . "

      And how does this fit with your suggestions?
      1. Know-nothing
        Know-nothing 2 June 2013 15: 57 New
        +2
        http://www.kremlin.ru/news/11908
        Working meeting with Deputy Prime Minister Sergei Ivanov and Minister of Defense Anatoly Serdyukov 12 July 2011, 15: 00

        D.MEDVEDEV: The second one. You should only purchase high-quality equipment, and at transparent prices, and not at the prices that individual companies like. We now have a different economy, not the Soviet one, and the Ministry of Defense must get inside each contract, look at the cost of almost any, each of the products that you purchase, you should understand what it all consists of. This is a lot of money, and the money that is in the state budget is folk money, as they used to say, so there’s no need to buy junk. No matter what anyone says, if they offer a supply of equipment that does not suit you, you need to refuse it. Place contracts with other companies. In the end, buy it by import. Just so that everyone understands that it is necessary to give a quality product, and not refer to the fact that we have exclusive samples and absolutely closed topics. For this you can, as you know, hide anything. Modern means of defense, security, and warfare are completely different than they were 20 – 25, and even more so 50 years ago.
  • poquello
    poquello 2 June 2013 15: 07 New
    +1
    The article came across earlier by the authorship of Mihai Kozak and, to put it mildly, did not arouse confidence. It’s like under Serdyukov tigers shit watered both these and those. I would like to confirm the reasoning from more authoritative sources.
  • crush
    crush 2 June 2013 15: 08 New
    +1
    another nagging and smearing of snot. Problems should be solved, not ranted
  • vlad.1924
    vlad.1924 2 June 2013 15: 10 New
    +4
    The fish rots from the head ... All the problems are solvable ... All in all, worthy specialists should be put at the helm of the industry (and there are such managers in Russia), and not "general" top managers with several Master's degrees in Economics and a salary of several million rubles and hoping for golden parachutes ...
  • rassomaha
    rassomaha 2 June 2013 15: 11 New
    +8
    the grandfather of Stalin got all this thieves already.
  • arkgrz
    arkgrz 2 June 2013 15: 12 New
    +2
    what’s wrong with Putin, it’s a flourishing impunity .. or at least some type is removed from office .. = (so there will be no results
  • Adequate
    Adequate 2 June 2013 15: 15 New
    -4
    By the way, this article is pure Plagiarism - compare this article with poabzatsevo !!!

    http://www.km.ru/v-rossii/2013/05/31/armiya-i-oboronosposobnost-rossii/712128-ro
    ssiiskii-flot-smertelno-oslab
    1. sub307
      sub307 2 June 2013 15: 33 New
      0
      Not ah. Not a "pure plagiarism" article. Compilation is likely, i.e. article "born" in work with other articles, sources of information. That's okay. Information from the original source on this site, we are unlikely to ever see, if it is not "self-made" lengthy reasoning about everything and nothing.
  • runway
    runway 2 June 2013 15: 27 New
    +3
    An occasion to think again: if the planned funds are allocated annually for a certain number of armaments and military equipment, if this plan is not implemented from year to year, while the Supreme Commander-in-Chief and his accomplices remain in their places, THESE THIS PROVISION CALCULATES! And it doesn’t matter what they say there - they are judged by deeds.
    And this is what outrages - experts from the crisis areas of our economy (all) promptly and very reasonably warn the country's leadership about erroneous steps. Despite this, these steps are being taken. ARE NOT SENDED THIS KAZAKHOCH?
  • The comment was deleted.
  • deman73
    deman73 2 June 2013 15: 33 New
    +2
    It’s always easy to break, but building is difficult and even more so in the mess it’s easier to steal
  • pensioner
    pensioner 2 June 2013 15: 35 New
    +3
    In my opinion, the situation in the military-industrial complex of Russia very much resembles the situation in the military-industrial complex of the USSR of the late 30s. What happened was that the mind is incomprehensible. One Kurchevsky is worth it. The scale of the negative is determined by the scale of the task of restoring the country's defense capability. This is not even a task - it is a MEGA task. EVERYTHING has already lost the habit of working for the result: authorities to manage production and R&D, engineers to make no mistake, hard workers to work without marriage (if possible). Pulling out for public display 1 an example of failure with new weapons is not a problem. The trend is important - the work has gone !! Let it be so far inefficient, let it be criminally slow in some places, but go !! And at the end of 30 they solved the problem. They created sharashki and sharply reduced the number of design bureaus in industries due to their enlargement. And directors of enterprises that ignored the decisions of the party and the government (there were those that did not follow Stalin’s orders personally even at 41) were shot very rarely.
  • vvvvv
    vvvvv 2 June 2013 15: 41 New
    0
    There is no silver lining ... To maintain the entire huge amount of obsolete equipment would require enormous costs, etc. And now, a lot would go under the cancellation and replacement with the technology of new generations. Instead, it turned out that Russia nevertheless received the desired import, market, chewing gum, sausage, foreign cars and many other things that were not during the USSR and should nevertheless be recognized as an omission. Now this will no longer be the soil of popular riots. Still, it would be here to gradually return the loot and exported, through the establishment of affairs and nationalization. Or come to terms with the land and move on. In comparison, the United States, etc., who did not reduce the equipment, had to bear the burden on all costs and expansion. And now all this colossus is on their budget, but there are no further advancements ... priest ... But Russia is introducing the latest technology ... NW - normal, submarines, and the rest - slowly ... We have much to grow, and others - where to deflate ... So, I hope everything is normal with us.
  • Dmitriy2009
    Dmitriy2009 2 June 2013 15: 51 New
    -1
    "In accordance with the approved contracts, this year Sevmash, which is a part of the United Shipbuilding Corporation, is to hand over to the Navy not two, but three nuclear submarines. This is the lead multipurpose nuclear submarine of project 885 Yasen called Severodvinsk and two serial submarines. cruisers "Alexander Nevsky" and "Vladimir Monomakh"
    http://topwar.ru/28888-vmf-rossii-v-blizkoy-perspektive-budet-imet-v-svoem-sosta
    ve-sem-mnogocelevyh-atomnyh-podlodok-yasen-i-yasen-m-glavkom.html
    1. Dmitriy2009
      Dmitriy2009 3 June 2013 05: 00 New
      -2
      How does it bother you from the fact that your dese is counterbalanced, and I'm the only one. It is necessary to bring up the "Militia" on this site, otherwise there is a lot of anti-Russian propaganda here. (Admins, I culturally express myself;))
  • Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 2 June 2013 15: 53 New
    0
    Every Russian should understand that all the money that the Soviet Union used to build the most powerful army and navy has now "sailed" to the West. And from there (at best) they return to Russia in the form of clothes, electronics, sausages and all sorts of liquor. That's all for you difference... belay
    1. fisherman
      fisherman 2 June 2013 16: 27 New
      +1
      every Russian should first of all understand that all those denyuzhki that were stolen in the dashing 90s and abundant 00s are IMPORTANTly small in comparison with the HUGE amount that now lies in our bowels ...

      to the question of blah blah and national priority ...

      as for the excessive softness of the judicial system (born in 1991), which is also called the "flooded sea of ​​liberalism", here the overwhelming majority of the population is in favor of tightening the laws ...
  • maestro123
    maestro123 2 June 2013 16: 03 New
    +2
    Such times these days, the more you stole, the greater the chance: - And what will it be for me? “You won’t get damn for that!”
  • Larus
    Larus 2 June 2013 16: 03 New
    +3
    This is sad, especially against the background of the recent rewarding of directors of defense enterprises for something (
  • family tree
    family tree 2 June 2013 16: 09 New
    +4
    To restore the former institution of military representatives and introduce personal, undemocratic responsibility for disruption of the delivery time, up to the criminal one, with a thorough investigation of each case so that there is no punishment of the innocent and rewarding those who are not involved, and that’s all.
  • Gromila78
    Gromila78 2 June 2013 16: 16 New
    +3
    The trouble with our defense industry is that the directors are not government officials, but effective managers. The main thing for them is not the fulfillment of the order, but the development of money. They don't care about plans for using ships. There is a disruption to the work schedule for a couple of months, and the plant management is in a hurry. SRZ-35 and SRZ-82 (branches of the Zvezdochka CS) are popularly called death factories. The deadlines have never been met, the quality is disgusting and they do not like to redo their work. There was such a case that the thickness measurement of the paintwork was carried out before the end of the painting of the hull, after the end of the painting they said that additional money was required for repeated thickness measurement laughing ... And since the work on service is going through "Zvezdochka", by hook or by crook she is trying to push orders to her enterprises.
  • pinecone
    pinecone 2 June 2013 16: 16 New
    +5
    The country has a well-functioning mechanism of embezzlement of budget funds and the defense industry is no exception. There is a crisis in the current economic model in the Russian Federation and the public administration system.
  • stranik72
    stranik72 2 June 2013 16: 26 New
    +4
    Gentlemen-Comrades, everything that is described in this article takes place in all areas of the military-industrial complex, about aviation for example, the declared flight characteristics are actually exaggerated, the reliability is low, the locators do not see far away, the targets are poorly recognized, half of those released in 2010-2012, helicopters of both the Mi-28 and KA-52 are malfunctioning, the same is true for the SU-34, 35, etc. There are no modern domestic night sights, there are no modern aviation power supplies, there are no modern communications equipment, what comes of poor quality, and now most importantly PRICES have reached the world level. The Lord needs 37 years, otherwise we will pump the country. There, someone blathering about Syria "here we are to them if they are our Syria" gentlemen than YOU THEM, knocking hard on the clave will not become strong, but to see where our liberals are leading us (and the GDP and LADIES from their sandbox do not even hesitate) it is necessary.
    1. Dmitriy2009
      Dmitriy2009 2 June 2013 16: 31 New
      -3
      Either Pindoses bought helicopters from us that year. Laughing out loud lol
      1. Rustam
        Rustam 2 June 2013 17: 18 New
        +5
        Dmitry2009 I can’t
        __________


        Oh yes, with regard to purchases by amers, the United States is purchasing for the army of Afghanistan, and earlier for Iraq
        but dear soul people have one thing but! (even they have a couple of B5 for their operations

        according to the glider, there are no dvigla issues, only the entire filling there (avionics) of Western production, the new 8s come to our army with poor analog devices (although the same Transass makes digital cabs)
        in the same India, MI-17V5 are completely digital (glass cabin), and in our no-return bribes and chose their suppliers and ala native MO RF receive analog squalor

        photo (clickable) MI-17V5 for the Indian Army (glass cabin) as well as video
        1. Rustam
          Rustam 2 June 2013 17: 22 New
          +4
          Extension
          _______________________
          Dmitry2009 I can’t
          _______________________________________________


          And here is SUDDEN- the cabin of the new MI-8MTV5 (MI-17V5) delivered to our army, as they say, look at the Indian one above and see the difference — the helicopters left the same Kazan Helicopter Plant in one year
          1. Dmitriy2009
            Dmitriy2009 2 June 2013 18: 27 New
            -1
            1. For example, I’m glad that our manufacturers can do this.
            And then the saboteurs here because they say they can not.
            2. Naturally in this configuration, and the price is higher. This is an international market.
            3. Our pilots can land planes on faceted glass without bells and whistles soldier
      2. Dmitriy2009
        Dmitriy2009 2 June 2013 18: 33 New
        -5
        Oh how minusanuli. What did not buy? wassat
        The saboteurs ... you ovskie gaskets.
        1. Rustam
          Rustam 2 June 2013 18: 59 New
          +6
          Sabers x ... you, ovskiye laying

          ________

          Be quiet, uncle, don’t make any noise, it’s mostly sane people and good concrete dialogs, but you shouldn’t rush in the heat with such phrases — this is useful to you in the future, even here

          second, of course they can, but they don’t let everyone in (let their own for kickbacks) and not always of better quality, we won’t go deeper into the problem (discussed a year ago)

          MI-17 is a decent car, no one argues about the shortcomings, I said, but we should try to conduct the dialogue properly, but it's up to you

          It’s just that if you continue like this without arguing with facts and disrespecting interlocutors and colleagues on the workshop, communication with you will become uninteresting

          Here's another from zagashnik- photo of the cockpit (clickable) MI-17 but this is for Kenya and from the factory in Buryatia
          1. Dmitriy2009
            Dmitriy2009 3 June 2013 00: 16 New
            -4
            You’ll speak quieter to your wife in the kitchen - understand, right?
  • Kovrovsky
    Kovrovsky 2 June 2013 16: 27 New
    +1
    Quote: Adequate
    If the people are cattle and the power has decayed, where does the advanced industry and science come from?
    After all this, sometimes you think, but it would be nice if the Russian Federation ceased to exist along with the German Reich and the Great Japanese Empire. Or at least it would fall under occupation. Perhaps the new regime would make it a civilized country.

    And what speeches do you want under such a flag!
  • Dmitriy2009
    Dmitriy2009 2 June 2013 16: 29 New
    -5
    For lebirasts
    http://www.vesti.ru/videos?vid=510676
    1. Dmitriy2009
      Dmitriy2009 2 June 2013 23: 28 New
      -1
      What minus the ovine litter is not like that it is not removed in Hollywood?
      1. Dmitriy2009
        Dmitriy2009 3 June 2013 03: 02 New
        -2
        So this, unlike Hollywood, is reality, and not how Rossamaha and his brother destroyed all the Nazis.
  • sanych your division
    sanych your division 2 June 2013 16: 29 New
    +6
    you begin to understand Joseph Vissvrionovich ... in order to reason the clans of the fearless grabbers in power, only extremely harsh measures will be suitable. The enemy of naronda ... how else to call the people responsible for disrupting the supply of weapons and plundering the state. of money? and even at a time when everyone is fully armed and in the air smells fried distinctly? nationalize extractive industries urgently! for squandering funds on Magadan or to the wall. Well, how else to deal with this scourge? because they’ll smear us on the wall. let the wrong hands. now it’s too late to play tolerance and justice. tough measures or an end to everything. let dictate. better than becoming a stupid colony.
  • Dmitriy2009
    Dmitriy2009 2 June 2013 16: 42 New
    +1
    Finns plan to replace American fighters with Russian Su-30s in parts of the Air Force
    http://warfiles.ru/show-31891-finny-planiruyut-zamenit-v-chastyah-vvs-amerikansk
    ie-istrebiteli-na-rossiyskie-su-30.html
    1. Dmitriy2009
      Dmitriy2009 3 June 2013 02: 58 New
      -2
      Hey - bedding, they forgot to drive this comment into minus. Damn "Militia" is there anything to bring here? What would you g ... shut them up.
  • vlrosch
    vlrosch 2 June 2013 16: 55 New
    +1
    Everything is normal for a criminal state. The main task is the collapse, which our rulers successfully do: we cut everything new to please Americans, junk we cherish and cherish. In the news, the main smart word is to pronounce, and what really happens is to spit, if only the money would drip. Tankers are building ships, people who haven’t even seen the sea; they can’t get rivers to Moscow; instead of specialists, they build sea rockets (this is about a spit called the Bulava). More often than not, our leaders need to recall Krylov’s grandfather.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  • Dmitriy2009
    Dmitriy2009 2 June 2013 16: 56 New
    -3
    another 5 cents may be interesting to someone:
    New in Russian weapons (17.04.2013)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbA8JWN2pis
    1. Dmitriy2009
      Dmitriy2009 2 June 2013 23: 27 New
      -3
      What minus the ovine litter is not like that it is not removed in Hollywood?
  • bubla5
    bubla5 2 June 2013 17: 02 New
    +1
    It’s time we’ll already definitely decide whether we need a fleet and a strong army, otherwise they say one thing, do the other and no one is responsible for anything in the third place, only a huge budget cut, and the top staff of the Moscow Region turned into medium-sized oligarchs, maybe all the fuck is needed, until the end to fill the country with migrants, close all plants, etc., why it is tormented, but further strangers will introduce their own rules and regulations, only the population can turn into guests
  • Russ69
    Russ69 2 June 2013 17: 07 New
    0
    The article is extremely pessimistic, continuous criticism, and sometimes not on the point. But there is not a single sentence, "what to do?"
    They change the leadership, which means they understand that the matter is bad and at least some attempts are being made to fix everything. What happens, time will tell.
    As such, measures are constantly heard "change leadership", but never "to whom?"
  • individual
    individual 2 June 2013 17: 30 New
    +3
    I read the publication and begs the thought,
    - Stalin is not on them!
  • Vtel
    Vtel 2 June 2013 17: 34 New
    +2
    Yes, where money flows into the military-industrial complex, probably one Chubais knows, but he will not say. The mess is enough, but there is not a drop of optimism in the article, not really that bad. Although listening to the media from our criminal front, you might think so. God grant that we all have a lot and good!
  • Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 2 June 2013 17: 46 New
    -2
    Quote: I read the publication and begs the thought,
    that, in all shipyards, correspondents, including Western ones, go and calculate the percent of fulfillment of the plan for building the nuclear fleet of Russia! And it turns out that even among them there are those who disagree ... I think that a correspondent will write some times: The pace of construction of our enemy fleet in Russia does not satisfy us ... Citizens, goats cabbage shipbuilders - ships
  • gregor6549
    gregor6549 2 June 2013 17: 48 New
    +5
    I have long formed the opinion that most of the leaders of the defense industry companies and the officials who supervise them are deeply concerned about the bulbs and guns, and planes and submarines and other "shooters" and "flying" if they do not give tangible benefits to them personally. Moreover, the benefits are here and now and not somewhere in the distant future, tk. understand that they are temporary people at the helm. Moreover, many who were at the controls have already landed and are sitting. And those few of them who would like to do something differently will simply not be allowed to do it. The rare plops that Putin gives to these steering wheels cannot change anything significantly, because he was held hostage to the vertical of power that he himself had built. Such a vertical is straight and works poorly only under a tough dictatorship and tough dictators like Stalin or Hitler, but it requires abundant lubrication of blood and then first of its citizens, and then not only of its own. The same vertical that was built has a very flexible spine, but bending to please its builder, and barking "boo done" immediately sabotages all his "instructions".
    Therefore, we have what we have.
    Therefore, all the statements about how cool everything will be in years that way in .. twenty have already set the teeth on edge, as well as the stormy "hurray" of naive vyunos about such statements
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. gregor6549
        gregor6549 2 June 2013 18: 06 New
        +8
        Be rude kid. I have done so much for the army that you never dreamed of. I saw the dying towns, and tents in an open field with the families of officers thrown out of Germany, and much more. And I'm glad that now the army is better than under "Tsar Borisk". Without a balance of power, the world could collapse at any moment. But it's better than it was and what is needed now are two big differences. And it is unlikely that it will be possible to raise the army to the required level without raising everything else (science, production, education, etc.) to the same level.

        And note, I'm with you on you ... bye
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Truffoff
          Truffoff 2 June 2013 18: 12 New
          -2
          Quote: gregor6549
          I did so much for the army that you never dreamed

          For whose ?? Sorry, you have a flag in Australian colors.
          1. Dmitriy2009
            Dmitriy2009 3 June 2013 00: 19 New
            -3
            So the corrupt ones work - you asked why the flag is not Russia, you minusanuli;).
          2. gregor6549
            gregor6549 3 June 2013 07: 27 New
            +2
            How is it there? "If you smoke American cigarettes, they will say that you sold yourself to the Americans." But seriously, since the age of 16, I worked for one USSR country and one Soviet army. And he left for Australia when only fragments remained from both the great country and the great army and no one cared what and how you did. Moreover, when I began to ask careless questions about the sudden disappearance of hundreds of units of military equipment from the test sites of the enterprise and the lease of hundreds of square meters of production and scientific space to the "brothers", I did not just fly out of the gates of my own company, to which I gave more than 30 years , but also received a detailed explanation of which school and institute and also which way my children go and what can happen to them along the way.
            I confess that I did not show courage and heroism and did not risk myself and my children, but went down to the place where there are fewer of these problems and where they agreed to accept me. Thanks to the colleagues that they understood and provided me, as far as possible, a no-delay exit and safe departure.
            I hope there will be no more hints of American cigarettes. Moreover, I do not smoke them for a long time.
            Of course, questions will remain, why is it that I, "foreign", are so worried about the problems of the Russian army?
            I answer. First of all, because I clearly understand that without a balance of power in the world and in Australia you will not be saved from idiots all the time reaching for the red button. And for such a balance, the military potential of Russia and the ability to realize it should not be lower than a certain level. And not lower at any given time, and not tomorrow or the day after tomorrow. And secondly. What has been given the greater and better part of life and for which my relatives fought and died will never become a stranger, like a country in which it turned out to be the will of fate will never become its own, no matter how comfortable life in this country is. And she is quite comfortable and predictable, what a sin to conceal
            1. Truffoff
              Truffoff 3 June 2013 15: 14 New
              0
              Quote: gregor6549
              , as the country in which it turned out to be the will of fate will never become its own, no matter how comfortable life in this country is. And she is quite comfortable and predictable, what a sin to conceal

              Nostalgia does not torment? Do not pull out of the comfort zone?
              Call of the ancestors? Self-realization of a person for the good of the Fatherland?
              Do you not whisper fate, the soul of a Russian person, at bedtime, WHERE to go and WHAT to do? Is it so easy on the soul?
              1. gregor6549
                gregor6549 4 June 2013 16: 51 New
                0
                About nostalgia and peace of mind.

                Of course, there is nostalgia. How without her? But nostalgia, mainly for people, nature, culture, etc. .
                After all, I had and still have many friends in all the former republics of the Union, both among the military and among industrialists. With the subsequent poaching of sturgeon on the same Akhtuba. And now I keep in touch with many of them, albeit mainly on the Internet. To fly to them from Australia is both far and expensive, and the age is already closer to lethal than to flying.

                And how can you forget friendly drinking with them somewhere in Cap. Yar, on Emba or Donguzsky with Russian vodka, Ukrainian bacon and Belarusian bulba on the occasion of the successful completion of tests of another shooting "piece of iron".

                But for the madhouse in which he lived, there is no nostalgia. There is only bitter bewilderment why in the USSR, which has such rich lands, forests, mineral resources, not to mention smart heads, everything worked out and so far it turns out much worse than where all this is much less. From that and the soul is not calm. Not for myself, for those who stayed there. Of course, they will swim out, will not drown, but they will swim out for too long. And many have almost no time left for swimming. His mostly already set sail

                About self-realization.

                I think that I have fully realized myself both for the good of the Motherland and for the good of the country in which I live now. True, in Australia I was exclusively engaged in peaceful affairs, creating monitoring and traffic management systems. Not "shooting games", of course, but it's also nice to know that your systems have saved more than one life and made life easier for millions of drivers. Moreover, no one put any special obstacles for me in these studies, despite my more than solid age, in which I came to this distant country.

                What does the soul whisper?

                Whispers miscellaneous. Including the fact that two ancient troubles (fools and roads), as were among the main ones in the homeland, have not disappeared. And if I still could somehow wrestle with the roads (as far as possible), then fooling with no fools will be enough, and not just mine.

                Hopefully answered all your questions. hi
                1. gregor6549
                  gregor6549 4 June 2013 18: 49 New
                  0
                  I apologize for the copybook.

                  The phrase "With the subsequent poaching of sturgeon on the same Akhtuba" should have followed the phrase
                  "And how can you forget friendly drinking with them somewhere in Cap. Yar, on Emba or Donguzskiy with Russian vodka, Ukrainian bacon and Belarusian bulba on the occasion of the successful completion of tests of another shooting" piece of iron ".
        3. Dmitriy2009
          Dmitriy2009 2 June 2013 23: 24 New
          -3
          And what have you done in Germany for Russia? My father fought in Afghanistan, the elders fought in Afghanistan, and I know about the service in Germany, those who served there told me.
        4. Dmitriy2009
          Dmitriy2009 3 June 2013 02: 13 New
          -3
          You saw, and I served the Motherland. Tell how cars were driven from Germany, wine was whipped through taverns, but was the currency changed?